Attention, data, and science-driven fitness fanatics. The following is crystal clear. The data shows this, 100%. An active spiritual or religious practice makes you healthier, makes you happier, and contributes significantly to longevity. So if you preach data, you preach science, you say, look, you gotta look at the data, look at the science. This is what tells you the truth, then you have to grapple with the following. A spiritual and religious practice that you're active in is good for you. Look into it. This one I love because when you talk to the data, the people like to pull up the data. This is the data shows. This is what the data shows. It shows if you eat this way, it shows if you exercise like this, if you, and they can be actually quite, they can be zealots about this, bring this to them and watch them squirm. Okay, well, the data shows that people with an active religious practice, people who go to church every Sunday or people have a spiritual practice that they're active in, across the board are happier, less anxious, stay married longer, better parents. They have better health. They're less likely to smoke, less likely to drink, less likely to go to jail. The data is clear on this. Do you have a practice like this since you're so data-driven and then you watch them squirm in their chair? I love that unless it's an abusive cult. Yeah. Yeah. Like Twin Flames. I'm totally into it. We'll get to that later, but I just want to throw that in there just to make sure. Does it count Heaven's Gate? Do you think though there's a bit of like a correlation there with just like the studies that come out that come out about like what a multivitamin can do for you? And it's like, well, it's less about the multivitamin set. Somebody has this practice that they take a pill every single day. They're more likely also to make healthier choices, to exercise, do that. Do you think there's some sort of correlation there that if you have a spiritual practice, it's less about the spirituality or whatever, it's just the fact that- You say a lot more discipline. Yeah, you have discipline to make better choices. This is the way that they try to explain it. So if you pull this up and you look at the data, you'll get lots of articles, psychology, articles, articles on human behavior, science articles. And then what they'll do is they'll try to point to those things. They'll say, okay, why does the data show this? Well, there's a lot of community because they go to church every Sunday. So they meet with people every week. They get help when they need it or people are more likely to see that they need help because they're so connected. They're more disciplined to look at certain things. So that's the argument. The way that they try to explain it away, fine. That's totally valid. Truth is, oh, that's good. Well, it's, and right, and I, okay, that's all totally valid. Here's the point that I try to make. Would, can we separate that from what spirituality and religious provides, which is the belief in the transcendent, which is the belief in something greater than themselves? And I don't necessarily think you can separate the two. I haven't seen yet data to show that you can necessarily separate those. For example, it would be like trying to separate the practice of fitness and health from the belief that you are worthy of being healthier. That you're somebody that's worthy of being taken care of, right? Try to follow a fitness and health journey and try to do that through self-hate. Like a lot of people might get caught up in, right?  But they're like, but I'm doing all the practices. I'm still working out, I'm still eating, right? Yet their health doesn't reflect it like somebody who's doing it with the different intention, with the right intention. So I don't know, I'm not making the argument necessarily that you have to believe in the transcendent. All I'm saying is, the data is very clear in this. Explain it away all you want, the data is very clear in this. And so if you're data driven, you have to grapple with this and you have to say, and if you're very focused on your own health and finish, like this is what I do, I really believe in this and I want to help others. Why ignore this? There's almost nothing that shows the positive effects across the board like that. Like it makes everything. How strong is it as far as the data? How strong is it connected? And is it, how does it compare to a diet? Or how does it compare to exercise? Or how does it compare to other forms of improving yourself or being healthier? So for life quality, it contributes significantly for anxiety and depression. It contributes significantly and it seems to contribute to everything else. So when people quit smoking, they get healthier, right? But when people have an active spiritual practice or an active religious practice, they're less likely to smoke. They're also less likely to eat in a particular way. They're less likely. By the way, I know people right now are like, I know somebody who's a church that does all these things. Obviously this is a broad, we're looking at broad data, but you're less likely to do the things that aren't good for you and you're more likely to do the things that are good for you. And this is really important because mindset, in my opinion, I think most coaches and trainers who've been working with people for a long time will tell you mindsets, everything. It changes your frame. Everything seems different. The things that seem to be stressful before now seem to be more like blessings, like, oh my God, all these kids are so, oh my God, it's so busy. I don't have time for myself. And then you have this spiritual practice and you go, oh my God, this is amazing, like having kids is amazing. This is a worthwhile trade. Going to the clubs was not nearly as fulfilling as being here with my kids, so the trade becomes more worthwhile. And this is, again, this is not just my experience. This is based off of when you look at the actual data, what it seems to say, it seems to change the mindset and the frame around things, which has a profound effect on depression, anxiety. Your perception of pain, that's another one. Like how pain affects you changes when you have these practices. There was some data on that. Yeah, I heard an interesting talk. I think it was, I forget, it was like this scientist, and I think it was between him and Jordan Pearson. They were talking about, like, even statisticians and, like, data-driven people, like, they have to make moral decisions all the way through and parsing through all of the numbers and, like, where it comes from. And, like, if it's following, like, my own bias, and how do I remove my own bias, and how do I, you know, how do I make all these moral decisions to account for, you know, the result that I'm achieving through all of that. And so it's, like, even through that lens, like, you're going to have to make a lot of, like, moral-driven decision. You know what I'm saying?  I don't think I've ever asked you guys. And I'm just curious, because both of you were in your 20s with kids. Do you remember, like, wrestling with being young and still wanting to go out and do your own thing? Like, can you, like, vividly remember like that? Clearly. You can. Clearly. It was the loss of what feels like the loss of freedom, not doing things like your buddies that are able to do, feeling like, oh, I can't do these things. I have these kids I'm taking care of, and oh, my God, my sleep is impacted, and I have this stress and this, you know, burden of having to care for these other people. That was something I grappled a lot with. Really? A lot. And I mean, I think a lot of people do. As my frame has shifted and changed, you know what it reminds me of when somebody's trying to exercise regularly and eat right, and they are grappling with the, I can't just eat whatever I want. I can't just lay on the couch all day long. I can't just, now when you do it a long time, you realize that you're actually more free because you're healthy, not less free. So that mindset shift was a profound one for me. And I feel very blessed that I have a gap between my kids. I have two older kids and they're teens and then two that are, you know, three and under. And because I had that time in between, I can reflect. Do you feel like it was a light switch moment or do you think it was like over time you started to piece that together? It feels like slow growth and then sudden growth. You know what I mean? Like little by little by little by little and then boom, there was a big shift in kind of the way I looked at things. Because obviously I see that you do getting your second round of young kids. Like I've only, I only really know you that way because I didn't, I didn't watch your younger one or your older ones at this, at this stage. And so I don't see that other side, but you do recall that transition and remember that. What about you, Justin? Did you? So what was the original question? Are you not here?  No, I didn't check out when I talk over there. No, I didn't check out. I just was like really concentrated on what I was trying to So when you were in your 20s, when you're in your 20, because you guys both had kids at a young age like that.  Like I was very aware of how selfish of a person I was. And I knew that that probably wasn't a responsible time for me to bring a child into this world. Now you guys did. And so do you remember wrestling with that selfishness of like wanting to be with the boys or wanting to go buy yourself a new toy that you but instead having to sacrifice to raise these kids? Like, do you do you recall those moments? Yeah, well, I think when I was married, it was more I was wrestling more like in terms of like the beginning, the very first year, because it was like, OK, so I'm married now.  And it was like, well, I made this commitment. And so I'm like, I don't know. I had a hard time kind of dealing with that person. Like I was I was transitioning more into like I want to be a little bit more responsible and like I'm committed now. And I'm like kind of trying to just focus on that. And it just became less appealing to me. And so it was just more one of those things where it just started to slowly just feel different. And it wasn't like I was trying to separate myself intentionally. It just felt like that just didn't resonate with me anymore. And then, you know, it was kind of a quick thing because we had we got pregnant like within a year of being married. And then it was like, OK, well, now I'm like really going to have to focus on this. And I was kind of explaining that.  Like what I was doing was like what they had to do or anything. Well, I can only imagine how hard because I remember being the friend who didn't have that, right? And there's a couple of us that didn't have kids. And there was a couple that did.   Like, you're not, you know, we're not meeting up every day for poker nights and we're not going out on Saturdays like we used to. And so, oh, could you have a kid now? You said things weren't going to change. So you, you did remember wrestling with that. And for the same thing, like I saw, like, was it like a light switch moment or has it been like over time? And then because now again, I really know you guys as these super present fathers who don't struggle with that at all would choose to do stuff with your kids over going out with anybody ever. Yeah. So it's, it's well, I think the light switch part was when Courtney was working graveyard and then I was still because I was like kind of home by myself, like I would have them come over to my house and then we would kind of do our thing and like try to play video games or, you know, do whatever like dude stuff. And meanwhile I have like a, you know, like an infant that I'm also like trying to kind of care for and until Courtney would come back and then it was like sort of this weird exchange.  I was just like, whatever, I'm just about my family. A lot of cultures have like a coming of age type of event or ceremony for men and that seems to be important to help men make that transition, which we kind of lost in modern societies. I think for young women, it's it's very obvious, right? They go from they don't have a period to having a period. That's very much like, oh my God, you know, now, you know, that's an interesting thought. So, well, that's you think that played into like Peter Pan syndrome and stuff like that because we don't have it in our culture. We don't. Every almost every culture does right.   Yeah. Like even some cultures, like, you know, there's even so important. We've lost like sight of that. Well, listen, you have to have a moral framework.  Otherwise, if it's just based off of you, you think you're so reasonable. I think we're so arrogant. I think we're so reasonable. Human reason can be twisted so many different weird ways. Obviously, like look around. So you have to have this kind of framework and who's going to teach you as a young man, other men, other men. And if they're not teaching you this, where are you going to learn from the media? What's the media trying to teach you? Buy our stuff and who buys more stuff, Peter Pan buys more stuff.  Well, that's a great consumer. That's what we want. We don't want the dude that's like trying to be responsible, settle down. All of a sudden, what do you realize? Right.  And then you realize like, okay, we got to settle down. I got to spend more time with my family. Not going to spend frivolously. And this is what's more important than the bars. Like who cares about that? Like, I'll do that once a month with my wife, maybe. And that's about it. Yeah.  So yeah, getting married, having kids, settling down is boring compared to all that other stuff, or at least it seems that way. Today's program giveaway is maps and a ball of advanced. You can win that by doing this. Leave a comment below this video on the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. We also have a sale going on maps, old time strength, half off and maps, obstacle course racing, OCR, also 50% off. If you're interested, here's what you got to do. Click on the link at the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. Speaking of consumerism, you brought it up the other day and I didn't really notice it until after you said something. And now I feel like my feet is full of all these people that are complaining about Black Friday sales and the prices. And I guess I just hadn't thought about it. I'm not a big shopper on Black Friday. And I saw someone talking about how, and I do recall this though, Best Buy, you remember people used to camp out the day before you get there. And back then you could get like 80% off of a TV. Like it was just like crazy. It was a pandemonium.  And a lot of these kids were breaking down. Like it's like a lot of these things are like 15% off 20%. It's like a coupon deal. It's not like a real margin. They're getting shrunk because of inflation. I think what's happening. So these companies are like, what do we do? I know to tighten up a lot this year. I guess. Yeah, dude, it's, it's interesting. There was a viral video I just showed you guys earlier where this mom, she's like crying into the camera. She's like, I don't know why I'm recording this, but I'm we do everything right. My husband, I do everything right. I have a full-time job. I'm registered nurse. My husband works full-time. We just got paid on Friday. We bought groceries, filled the cars with gas, paid off mortgage. It's Tuesday. We have $200 left until next Friday. She's like, I don't know how we're going to make it. And it went viral because a lot of people, I think, are identifying with. Yeah, they're going to relate. Well, I mean, the cost of groceries exploded, the cost of gas exploded. By the way, when they do the inflation, when they're showing what inflation does, they don't get, they pull out the stuff. The main stuff that people buy. I think that's so funny. What a shell, you know, the game, the shell game, the famous shell game, where they switch the shells around. Yeah, that's what they're doing. They changed the definition of it. I remember that, like. Oh, of recession. Yeah, I was like, get out of here.  And what's crazy is that it works for a little bit until people are so hit with reality.  You know, two months later, all right, it's bad. I know what the news says. I told you guys that the car one's coming, right? I mean, that one was they did with the, we did with the housing market back in 07, they did the same thing with the car is just giving them out to everybody.  So there's vehicles that are that are losing 30, 40% now that we're selling just last year for 30, 40% more than they were. I saw that Tesla had did that. They cut they cut their prices by like 30 something percent, which drove the whole EV market down because everybody had a follow suit because of them. Have you seen the charts of how the price of a Tesla over the over the years, how much has come down? No, have you guys seen that? It's yeah. And look at it right now.  It's just going down and down like say what you want about the guy, but as an entrepreneur, uh, he's the probably the great. He's definitely the greatest entrepreneur of our time. One of the greatest of all time by some of the things that he's done. I mean, if you look at the, the innovation that they've had to do just to create and produce Tesla's, it's remarkable that all stuff that they had to create and do because it didn't exist. Yeah, it wasn't like you just took a car and made it pretty wild. Speaking of innovation, I was going to shove this in here because somebody's asked me about like the new Beatles song. Like there's literally a new Beatles song and you're like, what? The Beatles, like John Lennon's dead. You know, is this AI? No, so it's not AI. They actually had him back. He came back. They had recordings. He had recordings if he did the Michael Jackson thing where he had a whole, he had a whole like catalog and so they picked this one song. And they had to do a lot because technology now they can kind of extract like some of his vocals away now from the piano, because I guess they actually worked on this for like over a decade before that. But the technology wasn't really available yet to where they could like parse it out enough to where it sounded good. Because, you know, you have like so you have the remaining members left like Ringo and Paul. And so they they actually played on with their instruments and then sang back up and everything like and recorded it, layered over it. George Harrison, they had to like sort of mimic what he would have played on guitar and like kind of like his lead to it. And so there's this little bit of a documentary. It's only like, I don't know, half an hour long or something on HBO. But it kind of goes. Is it good? It's good. It's like it's good. It's really cool, like to to to peer into that process and how they they had to really think their way through all of this to to to come up with something that was viable. You know who showed me this, my 14 year old daughter. Oh, yeah. Yeah, because apparently apparently it's like flying with the kids are age. No way. Yeah. So I didn't know if anybody was aware of it because I wasn't aware there was like a new beat. I never thought of this until just right now. How interesting that's going to be now. You have you're going to have this ability, right? With some of these big artists, they have like hundreds, sometimes thousands of songs that have never been released.  And how wild is that going to be? If like, you know, 10, 20, 30 years go by and like that thing that they created 30 years ago was like so ahead of its time that nobody latched on to it or thought it was great. And then it becomes great later on. That'll be wild. You're going to see that. You're going to have to see that, right? Because we wouldn't you wouldn't have that. But back in the days, like, and I know that Michael Jackson, I know Tupac, that's a lot of like that's where those rumors come from where they're not really dead. They have these catalogs that with tons of songs that were never released and they're they're they're taken pieces out of it. And they're being on the play. There's another really good documentary is about little Richard. And he's like one of my favorite all the time. And he's for sure the Godfather Rock and Roll. And like it goes into like detail of why. And like, I didn't realize like Elvis covered like Tutti Frutti, which is a terrible like cover and version. And there's this other one of this other guy that was like even more like Square, Ned Flanders, you know, version of it that they both sold way more records than little Richard. Just because I would have never guessed you were a huge fan. Huge fan. I had no idea. Oh, dude, she's so opposite of the kind of music that. No, I started out with like Rockabilly and like Rock and Roll. But like he definitively created like the Rock and Roll sound. You know, it was like very much of like like kind of like Baptist singing style. Like very like loud and energetic. And then like he had this like really cool like a boogie woogie kind of because my grandma played a lot of boogie woogie on the piano and I got into that as a kid. And he added a little flair to it with like a percussive flair with his right arm. And so they created his own kind of style with it, which then they kind of built off of. But it's like they go into a lot of detail of how like Prince like all these people like the Beatles, he actually went on tour of the Beatles and they he taught them kind of like, you know, some of his tracks and then they played it live. And then it became that's where they got the screaming pandemonium fans that were just like to the Beatles. Same thing with Elvis. It's it literally was like he's he was the very first one to get that kind of response from an audience. They just went like does it by the way, does that happen anymore? You ever watch old fifties and sixties videos of like the girls in the audience, the artist goes up and perform and they pass out or lose their minds. They still got. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, they're crying. Yeah, yeah. Freak out. And everybody still doesn't do that still. I don't think that ever dies. I think there's people that like idolized these these idols. Like I mean, these like. Yeah, but I haven't seen a video, a recent video of a concert where the whole front like the whole front section, people are crying, freaking out. We have what's her face right now? Who's like, it's a swift. Yeah, but are they doing that? Are they? Yeah. Oh my god. Are they really? Yeah.   There's what this guy's from like in England. Like, uh, I forget. Like anyway, the One Direction guy or what I watch. I just watch that. You know what I mean? Like some of those guys, like, you know, the pop singers, they still get that. That's evidence of mob mentality. Social contagion. Yeah.  What does it say?  Well, that's for what is it? What does it say about us? So if you're the type of person that doesn't like that, I don't fall into that, right? Like, I don't like, I can really enjoy like music and I could be like, I could be really into this band. Yeah. Right. And I'm go, I've seen them like Lincoln Park. I saw a three times tool. I've seen three times. So I could, I really like this. You don't scream and pass out. Yeah, but I don't get your panties. No, no. Is that, I mean, what does that say? What does it say about? We all have that in common. So all of us are like that. Well, if we like something, if we like something and then we see everybody else like that. We have to be cool about it. We immediately are like, I don't like this anymore. That's so, I like it, but I don't like it that much. Yeah. Oh, you guys scream. I'm not going to scream. Although Justin does mosh pit stuff. I do. I actually that's like the guy version of. Yeah, that's the, that's the version, I guess. I get like, I can't help myself. I mean, the closest thing that I ever felt to something like that is I can get sucked into a game like that, right? I can get sucked into a competitive game like that. Let's see this video. I want to see people lose their mind over Taylor Swift. I know, I haven't.  I mean, Michael Jackson obviously was a big, you know, he has a big, yeah, but he's talking about recent, right? And I think there's still people that go nuts over. Because there's all those classic videos, let's see. Are they? Look at, she's crying. Is that it? But it's not the same. Why? Because I want to see this dude pass out. She just passed out. There you go. Hold on a second. Wait, was that a girl? Pull up Beatles fans.  It's totally different. It's like literally hundreds of them. Yeah. Like literally like they saw, I don't know what they saw, but they lose their mind completely different. Is that not enough to win that argument or no? I mean, it still happens. I think though the Beatles were crazy as far as the response from the female fans in particular.  So I was reading the articles and they were saying that it's the screaming and everything is really probably designed to get attention from the artists. And then the screaming becomes contagious. Yes. Social contagious. Yeah. So those two things combined. Yeah. So yeah. And I think that would always kind of exist then, right?  Everybody that's in the front row. Like if you're in the front row of a concert, like you are like...  This is just true, right? So... Oh boy. Don't say anything about Taylor Swift, bro.  No, no, no, no. Taylor Swift is terrible artist. I don't want to strip these after us. My pub. You said it. You said it. That's not what I'm going to say. No, here's what I'm going to say. Women are innately more sensitive and intelligent when it comes to social cues, right? That was so great. I like how you add the intelligence. No, no, hold on. I like how you just dance around that. No, no, no. I didn't dance around anything. Listen, listen. That was good. That's clever. Every strength comes with a weakness, okay? Just like men are innately more likely to use aggression when it comes to accomplishing goals or defending people or whatever, right? But there's also a dark side to that. So women are more likely, they're just more intelligent with social cues. They are. They can read things better. This is why they can see things differently. This is why girls will see things. I don't think anybody's that argue women are more social than men. Yes, and guys are going to be like, we're like, what happened? I didn't feel that. You didn't see how the wage that she breathed or looked at me and you're like, no. And she's probably right. You're probably screwed. Well, it also makes them more susceptible to social contagions. Sure. So you don't typically see men doing that kind of, now where you see sometimes this happen is with aggression. So when you see riots, that's when you see guys get that social contagion.  I'm gonna break some good stuff. Because sports is like mimics war and battle, right? So you get that. Isn't that funny? I was making the point.   You guys are screaming.  That's different. That's different, man. That's, you know. They're slipknot masks. Yeah, come on, dude. I know. Anyway, speaking of craziness, I got to bring this up because we have to keep calling this out. I'm gonna pull up the article because this needs to stop. And we need to be very careful with the direction of where this is going. So the UN set is set to call on Americans to radically reduce meat consumption. So, and the reason is for the climate, right? So we need to eat way less meat because it's driving emissions and we need to save. We're gonna respectfully decline. Yeah, so here's the issue here with this. There's a debate as to whether or not this will actually make a difference. There's better ways to consume and grow meat and whatever, but that's not the argument I'm gonna make. Here's the argument I'm gonna make. When the climate becomes your God, the most important thing, everything else bends itself to that.  They wouldn't innovate as much. We would see all these other problems. Forget that, because the climate is the most important thing, that's the God. And that's what's happening because- Well, where's the humans falling that? That's very low on the totem pole, so. They're not measuring values and the climate's important, but so is our health.  It's one of the only whole foods that they find. If you take the average person consumes, 70% of the diet is heavily processed food. Look at the 30% that's whole foods. What is it? Meat, milk, eggs. Okay, cut those out. Now what do we left with? 100% processed food consumption, worse health, not a good trade. This is what I think people need to understand. People is one that wants a healthier people for a healthier world or there's one that wants less people. Yes. And there's no, so that's the definitive line right there for me. So I wonder if it's that or it's more just money-driven because you can't patent state. I think it's more about- That's part of it. Yeah, I think that's most of it. I think it's really like, if we can shift them over into this fake meat processed, all this processed- Bunch of patented stuff. That's right, we could patent it all and then we can monopolize all these food companies where we can't with beef. Yes, and I'm speaking to the average person who buys into it because the climate has become their- Right, right, right. So now they're like, yes, at all costs, save the planet.  Yes, that's the thing I want to say. And that's the argument I think we need to talk about to people because it is not a worthy trade. I'm gonna tell you right now, I've worked with enough people to know what happens to the average person when they try to go vegan and they're doing it for reasons other than they sincerely believe in not hurting animals. You end up, first off, the diet, the fail rate is like any other diet. Number two, their health almost always- Well, the discipline that that person has to, in order to get the nutrients they need to, I mean, people just are not disciplined like that to go after the foods that their body needs. And if you cut out the major food groups that provide a lot of that nutrients, it's just, I mean, it's, I don't know, it seems obvious to me because what we do, okay, and we see that with people. I mean, I see people that have those food groups and they're still struggling to get all their nutrients. Now you wanna take out two or three of the most nutrient-dense things that they consume and then think they're gonna, like, all of a sudden become more disciplined and go find that through vegetables. Like, I just don't see that happening. No, it's not gonna happen. Anyway, I saw a funny video yesterday. You guys know what escape rooms are? Yeah. Have you guys ever done those, by the way? We all did them together. Did we do an escape room together? We literally did that as like a field trip with the company. A long time ago. I didn't make it to that one, but you guys did. Oh, you did make it. Yeah, that's where I was there. That was fun. That was fun, yeah, that was cool. They're a blast. Did you guys get trapped? We didn't succeed. Because I wasn't there, right? Yeah, there was like one step to it. I was just kidding. You guys let Sal lead the way? Is that what happened? We're the only one that's been incarcerated and escaped, so you know. There was definitely a timer thing that, yeah. We did good, but there was like a sticking, I don't remember what it was, but anyway. Is there such a thing as you can be good and still not get out? There's like a, you get close to getting out. Some of them are hard. Some of them are really hard. Yeah. And you'll get stuck on one clue and then that clue leads to the others and if you get stuck on it, you're screwed. But anyway, there's this guy, he's been filmed on security cameras, going to escape rooms, locking the employees in the escape room and then sliding clues under the door and how to escape. No way, really? Yeah. That's kind of funny. I saw a video of it. That's kind of funny.  I gotta try and get out. How bad do you feel too? Like that's how you work for a company like that and you can't get out? Fuck! I just work here, man. That's a good prank right there. That's a hilarious prank. But he's probably going to go to jail. So I can't lock people in. I can't do that, huh? Dude, you know it's USC. See, look, there it is. Look at this. Staff locked in escape room by fleeing prankster. Yeah, see, look, he locks it. She can't get in. He slips that. She's like, what's this? Man! That looks staged, no? Yeah, her reaction is a little dramatic, but maybe she's just dramatic. You know what, that's not a bad, actually that's not a bad observation, Adam. What if, does it advertising this escape room place? Oh yeah. Yeah, wouldn't that be brilliant? That looks like bad acting, dude. That does look like bad acting, doesn't it? Oh man, did I get fooled? You might've got fooled, bro. I might've got bad moodle. You should know better by now not to share stuff on the show. Anything goes viral is staged. Yes, I feel the same way too. Everything? Everything. Dude, go through it. All right, let's begin with the fresh eyes. Look into it. Andrew can look for us. Everybody look into it. It's all staged. The world is a stage, yeah. I'll tell you something funny. So Max is going through this. So we are now entering where he repeats a lot of stuff and now he picks up other people's things. So always like throws Katrina off like, what? I don't say that. You don't say that where you get that. So he, we got for Halloween and Christmas we have like those plug and blow up decorations. He likes them in the house, which they're not made for the house, right? So it's been a big snowman. Bro, we have, exactly.  Blow it out. Oh yeah, who wouldn't want that as a kid? Amazing. And so, you know, we let him do it for a while, right? Until like it was time to actually set the decorations up outside, which I did this last weekend. And so I set them all up. He comes home from school and he comes outside and he just sees like pissed, you know what I'm saying? And he looks at me goes, I told you a thousand times. He's going to the house. A thousand times?  I don't say that. Where'd you get that from? Tell me a thousand times. A thousand? Ridiculous. Did you check them? Yeah, he did not tell me a thousand times. Bro, I'm going to the garbage. Yeah. No, don't do that. Do you know how many a thousand is? Yeah, dude. He's saying...  No, I'm pretty good about that, right? Like I know that I know you don't ever want to get caught up like that of like threatening and then not being willing to... What's cool is he's still, and you know, I'm knock on wood, right? As long as it'll last. Don't worry, you got the teenage years coming. I know, right? So that's why I don't... I know better than to say that it'll be forever like this, but I still got him in that phase where, I mean, we're four now, right? Like, he doesn't hear dad's tone change. Like get like upset that if I just slightly maximus... Yeah, that's it. That's it. I mean, that's like, borderline will make him cry. See, if I do that... Dad does not do that. If I do that to Aurelius, he interprets it as... You can call that too. You need to be punctual. That's why I'm like, I am real careful about how much I use that. It's like, I only want to use it. Powerful. Yeah. No, see, if Aurelius hears that...  He interprets it as do more of a thing. That's crazy. I'm not supposed to do it. What did he do the other day?  So he has to go to the bathroom. If you flush the toilet before he can go flush it, it's like, forget it, right?  Max is the same way. He's got to flush the toilet for you. Well, anyway, his hands were sticky. I don't know what he was doing. And he runs, I'm going to flush the toilet. No, he starts walking. Sorry, he starts walking. I'm going to flush the toilet. And his mom's like, No, wash your hands first. So he just speeds up because he's going to get there before. Before we could get him. So he could flush the toilet. Yeah, that's a good time. Dude, you know, speaking of kids, I'm watching media with a more careful eye these days. And I'm noticing a lot of things that are injected into shows for kids that probably shouldn't be there. I just didn't notice them before. So I'm watching the Grinch, the live action version. Yeah. Really? Yeah. So I'm watching that. And there's a scene where the Grinch or one of the characters gets his head stuck in this woman's cleavage.  And I'm like, wait a minute. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, what are they? Well, they've been doing that for a while. That's like, I mean, actually, I think it's a brilliant strategy from a business perspective. Not the best for raising a kid. But I mean, what it does is it attracts the adults. They do these jokes that are like above their, the average kid that's watching that. Well, Shrek really leaned into that. Yeah, exactly. Shrek did it. There's a lot of, there's adult humor. There's a way to do it that's not like that. There's adult humor that's hidden into the kid, well, yeah. I guess you have shaken it in your, I don't remember that part. Yeah. I just watched it yesterday. Well, we were watching Jessica watching. She's like, what? We're not watching this anymore. I'm like, that's weird. I never noticed that before. But you start to see in all these, these cartoons and live action things, like things like that.  What happened with Pinocchio?  It's gross. Yeah. It's almost like, oh, interesting. Yeah. Like it's, it's very parallel. It's tough once you hear too, like the bias of what like the words and then now you see every, you interpret everything as like, Oh, that means this. Yeah. So, well, Pinocchio is weird. They've done some, they've done some, that's different though.  But I think like Shrek, Shrek and Grinch and like, I mean, they're just mindful. Now all of them, I mean, what's the minions? Like they all, they put like, This is minions? Yeah. Right. They kind of move like that. No, I watch all the weird French accent.  And like, if you're going to sit and have to watch a cartoon for an hour and a half, hopefully you'll have some. Storks, that movie was amazing. Yeah, they do. That is so, that's not, that's, what is that? Dream, DreamWork? I think so, yeah, it's the guy that was on Saturday Night Live that did the, the dick in the box. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. What's that little bird that's on Storks? That's like, Oh, how you like my novel? Oh my God, bro. Have you seen Storks? I have, but I haven't watched it in a long time. Oh, you guys are not the funniest. Have you guys, do you guys start Christmas movies yet? Yeah, we did. We watched Home Alone. Home Alone? We did Christmas Vacation, which is my favorite. And then we did Home Alone. Yeah. So next is Elf. What's your favorite? What's your favorite, favorite, favorite Christmas? Elf would be up there. Christmas Vacation, hands down. Really? Matt Lampoon? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. Is that the one where the... You serious right now, Clark? Where the family goes? I did. Yeah. There's just so many lines in there. Yeah. That is classic. And actually, yeah, that wasn't even on my list right now. And I need to make sure that... Now, can we do any Christmas movie or do we stick them with family here in the category? Why is there only me Die Hard? Everybody puts Die Hard in there. It's like the, you know, that's like the biggest, like debated thing ever. Is Die Hard technically a Christmas movie or not? And it's like, no, it's not. Just because they have a Christmas party inside that movie does not make it a Christmas movie. That's a great one, dude. But it is actually in like the most famous like top 10 Christmas movies. Let's Die Hard is always in there. It's like one of them. A Christmas story is always one of my favorites. Really? Yeah, I love that. You know the scene when he drops, he drops his dad's having him hold the lug nuts and he drops them? Oh, yeah. Does every boy have this experience with their dad where you holding the flashlight, God forbid. I think it's our generation. There's a famous... You drop something or miss the flag, like the point. Yeah, there's famous memes of that.  Every dad or every kid has been nailed.  Oh my God, brother, fear. If I moved wrong, bro. Yes.  Doug, do you have a favorite Christmas movie? Like Black and White, maybe? Probably, yeah. Yeah, White Christmas. Maricollin 31st or something like that. What's that one? He was there when Christmas was invented. That came out when I was young. He was one of the wise men. I do have a favorite. I mean, I always liked the boy, like the Grinch stories and things like that. The cartoon one though. Oh, okay. When I was a kid. You know, when that one came out? 1966. Yeah. Oh, the original. The original one. Wow. 1966. Yeah, I just looked it up because my son wanted to watch the live action one. We're like, no, we're not watching that anymore. And I went to the original one. I like the new animated one. It's pretty good. The new... Yeah, that's actually Max's favorite. The new animated one. That's not bad. Yeah, he likes that one. Yeah, so speaking of animation, I'm going to throw this one in here. Smash all my content in today. I was trying to set you up for it. It was like a 15 minute delay. Yeah, so last time I talked about like the South Park episode and that we all watched and it was like this commentary on, you know, what's going on. So do you know what their plan is now? They're going to do a follow up to that. And I looked all into this just because of the curious... That South Park episode? Yeah, that episode that they did. So because of like the Kathleen Kennedy, the Bob Iger, like all the hits on Disney with this, they have been getting all these threats. Even releasing it, they're getting all these threats and like lawsuits. And then if they put it on this channel, like they're going to sue and they're going to take all their advertising off YouTube and blah, blah. So they've been all these court battles and all this. So they're actually going to go like fourth wall in their next episode. And they're going to place themselves in the episode against Kathleen Kennedy, Bob Iger, like all the drama that's going on like in real life, they're going to put within South Park and then also have South Park characters. I was like, so brilliant. How much are they worth? You can't mess with them, dude. You have any idea how much they're worth? Yeah, I'm so curious that those guys... Because I mean, that's everything they do, right? They don't do any... Do they branch outside of South Park? Didn't they have that restaurant? Well, yeah. I mean, they did remember like those musicals and all those things that they had. No, I don't know. I don't know what else they've done. Dude, they've done so many things, but like, uh-oh, Team America. Oh, they did that? Yeah, brilliant kidney. That's like one of my favorite all-time, like ridiculous movies. So they, Matt Stone and Trey Parker built a billion-dollar empire. Wow, wow. You know, these... Casablanita, wow. These companies are hilarious. You've seen all the organized efforts to remove advertising from X because of Elon? Yeah, yeah. And he's suing media matters hardcore. Did you guys see this? Elon Musk's SX is suing media matters for defamation over an investigative report. The article claimed that Nazi content posted on X appeared alongside ads from major companies. How can you sue?  For slander, for putting out like false information. Oh, interesting. Yeah, it's a big deal. It's a very big deal. But yeah, they're all like, we're not gonna advertise on X anymore because of, you know, whatever you're... They will try anything. He used to be the darling of them. Right. Because he was pro-electric car and stuff like that. Just goes to show, yeah. Staying on the Disney topic. Are you guys... I mean, I kind of know where Justin is at because he's been more vocal about it. But are you more optimistic with that company or are you guys like...  They're gonna... They're the way they're going, the direction they're going. You're in support of watching them completely die off for whatever reason. I want them to help they change years. That's what I hope. And I think they will. They're a very iconic, influential company. They just made a lot of mistakes. They've tanked a lot of movies this year. Yeah, I think they just lean too much into the social like political sphere. Like they should have just kept in with what everybody loves. It's like just genuine stories that people can all, you know, fall into and feel nostalgic about. And I don't know. I guess they've been meddling too much, which has been my concern. And I think the response has reflected that. So hopefully it kind of shifts their focus a bit. I'm hopeful, like even so the Star Wars franchise, I was like, oh my God, like this is, they're just killing my, you know, favorite story of all time, but they're coming back and Dave Filoni now is like the head of the content for Star Wars, which I was like really happy about. He wrote a lot of the best like current stuff in that, like with Ahsoka and with Mandalorian. And isn't their goal to like drip it now? They're gonna pull back on how much they're holding. They actually like cut production on a lot of these other different like different movies and things within that universe. They just like, we're like, we're just like gonna kind of didn't you say they're gonna make a big shift? Yeah, I mean, the reason why I brought it up, because well, first you started talking about them, but I mean, I'm optimistic about like Disney. I mean, I hope, I definitely am because I've banked on it. I have more shares in Disney than I have in any other company stock wise. And I think that it is an iconic company. I think that like example we saw with Bud Light, I think that they've made some poor choices and they dabbled in some things, thinking it was a better idea. I think they're learning their lesson. And I know that they got 60 billion going in the direction of theme parks this coming year. 60 billion. Yeah, so I know that's their big shift in their pivot is, I mean, and they've made a lot of, I know their content with the Star Wars and Marvel stuff, but I think a big part of pulling back on the production that way is to reinvest in the experience. And I think this is brilliant because that was the original money maker, wasn't it? The parks. And we talked about this not that long ago on the show where I do think that we're becoming more and more aware of the addiction to the iPhone and iPads and how even though we're connected online, it's not the same thing as being connected in person. And I do think we're gonna see a movement back into kind of traditional stuff of getting outside and socializing with people. And I think it's pretty brilliant that they've got the kind of power and money to lead the way in something like that by creating all these like theme parks and experiences in person for people. And I think that that's gonna hopefully revive the company from what they've been doing for the last couple of years. I think it's a smart bet. Yeah, I think it's a very smart bet because those parks are still super popular. Oh, yeah. And although the cost of going those parks. I haven't gone a lot. Yeah, I've been wanting to go. They're expensive. Yeah, they are. Have you seen how much it takes to go to Disney now? Basically, yeah. It's right in line with everything else. Yeah, I don't know. It's expensive. That's true. Yeah, yeah. I think they'll make a comeback. I do. I think it is, I think it's an iconic company. I think that they, you know, you know, I think sometimes like, and I'm guilty of this too, right? Like because of the way we get the news delivered to us, you can be a bit alarmist and be like, I can't believe that.  It's like, well, there's thousands of people that work for Disney. And there's a handful of people that get to make some of these decisions. It's also been successful for decades.  You know, they just hit a century. Okay. 100 years.  Right. They're going to shift. You can only do that for so long. They're a company. You can implode. Yeah, they're a company. And you also got to think like, that's a creation of a guy 100 years ago. I know. Yeah, and to like say it's a terrible company because now a new generation of people come in who now get to have to say and how things move or how they work is kind of unfair to just like, imagine, I mean, what happens, say, we pass this down to our kids and our kids' kids and they're, they're running this thing and they do things that we would do differently. It's a mind pump, shitty. It's terrible. It's a terrible company. Or did, you know, the wrong kid make the wrong decision. Are you trying to say we're the Disney of podcast? Yeah. That'd be a bold statement, huh? Yeah. I know. Imagine. Imagine. Hey, I wanted to ask you, Adam, I know you had quit or dramatically reduced your cannabis consumption and you were finding value in net. Are you still? Yeah. Using that? Oh, yeah. So what are you getting from the net that's, it's not the same, obviously. It's not the same as cannabis, but what are you getting from it that is helping? I'm getting the same, the same as far as relaxation without the high, right? So that was the thing, obviously. And what I've noticed, I told this, I think the first time that we brought this up is the potency to me, like. You feel it. Yeah. Remember, you guys, when we would talk about net, I would talk about mellow mode because the magnesium thing for me has been a game changer which that's a consistent ritual. But the sleep net was like, yeah, you know, if I would take it and I felt it, but I don't think I felt it the same way. You guys would talk about it. Yeah. I've been on a kick with the sleep. Yeah.  I know you, all you've said a lot about it.  But since I quit, boy, I, yeah, now I get it. You know what I'm saying? And so I do notice. It's the same receptors. It's the CB1 and CB2 receptors that are being affected by the cannabinoids, you know, the cannabinoids in net and the cannabinoids in cannabis. The difference is there's no THC in the net.  But I'm going smokeless. Solo Stole Fixed Fire, they take out the smoke. Clever. You know, went a few days and I was like, oh wow, I wonder if he is like really like serious about this and because that would be like, you know, like if he actually like made a point of like trying to, you know, be healthier, like it would have made a massive impact. You know? Of course. Oh, okay. No, it was just. What was it? What was a stunt? I knew it was. I knew it was something like that too.  It's a smokeless, so he. Oh my God. I was like. That's funny. That was a high idea for sure. Yeah. Yeah. He got it. He's really stoned. He's like, I got this perfect idea for you guys. Yeah. But he'll be like. When it made him a ton of money. This is how we're going to sell it. He's actually brilliant with the way he markets stuff. I've always, I don't know who it is that is his agent, but he's like one of those guys that's like got his hands in everything. I don't know who's making that decision. You want to know what's interesting about cannabinoids. I was just reading this to just remind me. I was just reading this article on how cannabinoids help with pain because you see oftentimes in studies that it does reduce pain and they try to point to the anti-inflammatory effects, but that doesn't quite, that doesn't quite explain it. It's not really like what, it's not acutely anti-inflammatory like an NSAID is necessarily. It's more of a kind of like over time anti-inflammatory. So like what's going on? And so I was reading this article and it was really fascinating because the person writing it cited data and said it's almost impossible to separate physical from emotional pain. You can't, they're the same. And they're so intricately connected that one affects the other vice versa. So your experience is what makes the pain more painful or not feel it at all. And they think that cannabinoids, the reason why for many people alleviate pain has less to do with any like physiological anti-inflammatory effect and more to do with its effect on the emotional side. She dissociates from your... Not even disassociate, just happier. Just happier. You just feel more relaxed, you feel better and it doesn't hurt as much. So you kind of build a new association. You know it's one of the ways to feel more pain? Sleep deprived or stressed. You ever noticed how much more cold you feel or how more painful things are when you're just tired? How much more loud everything is. And you're like, ugh. Or if you're in a bad mood versus a good mood. So they think that that may be one of the ways that it works is it because it shifts your emotional state, which we know this, that that's why people are like, oh my God, pain feels better. Are they using that information to discredit it or is it more just like... Doesn't matter. How is that discrediting anything? You feel less pain? Well, because then what someone will try to do is be like, oh, see, there's no physiological change that's happening. It's not doing anything. Yeah, I know. By the way, we see, we know this with antidepressants and zeolatics. Some people have back pain, can't explain it. They do MRIs. We don't know what's going on.  Back pain's gone.  Yeah, really interesting. Speaking of sponsors, I wanted to ask, I don't think you've used this yet, Justin, but you've used the sunscreen from Caldera. Yes. What do you think of it? So it's mineral based. It's mineral based. I put it on just the other day and the thing I don't like about mineral based ones is, Lisa, white, you know, haze. You're going to be like, see, right, guys. I have a video. We have a video of me with sunscreen all over my face. It was the one we... This is Doug. This is the Bo one. This is Doug.  And I think, is it porkies where the guys have the, what's it on there? All the lifeguards in the 80s. Yeah, yeah, that's what it reminds me.  So it's impossible. Like, every whenever I see him before he gets ready, he goes really, he's like, do you have white stuff on? Remember those neon colored ones? Like, that was like a thing for me. Yeah, yeah, it's pulling your nose. But I noticed this one doesn't leave a haze. Yeah, I saw you put it on. It didn't do it, huh? Didn't leave a haze, so that's great. Now, it's not nano-particulized, which is good, because what they used to do, with some companies did, is they broke down the zinc or titanium or whatever mineral they used. They tried to break it down so small where it's called nano-particulized, so it doesn't leave the white. But the problem with that is it would absorb. So people would put zinc oxide on or some of the other minerals, and then they would get these unsafe levels in their blood. So this is not that. Okay, explain that to me. So it's safer, and it's as effective? So it's not nano, and yet it doesn't leave a white sheen. So I don't know how they did it, but they did it. So you put it on, you don't have this white. So it doesn't look like you're just caked. Correct. Yeah, no, I noticed that when you put it on, but then it's as effective or better for you, because it's not getting... It's not nano. You don't want to put minerals all over your body when they're broken down so small that you absorb large quantities, because... It doesn't go in your bloodstream. Yeah, your body doesn't get rid of minerals like it does water-soluble vitamins. So you can build unsafe levels of some of these minerals. Well, I'll give it a try, and I'm sure like I'm going to have to be the real case study here. With my lobster. I'm still so amazed by that partnership. Just yesterday, my cousin messaged me. And we've talked about this before, right? The commercial ads of us have given just as much attention, if not more than the damn show.  I can't believe this. And then they start asking me all kinds of questions about it. I was like, yeah, no. By the way, a lot of people don't know the difference between... Just the handsome face. Between mineral-based sunscreens and chemical-based sunscreens. Beside the fact, this is true, the chemical-based sunscreens, those chemicals have xenoestrogenic effects in the body. They can alter your hormones, and they can affect weekly yet, but they still do affect the receptors that many hormones will impact, which is why they're like, don't put this on kids. Don't use too many of these now, people are saying. But the way that they work is they absorb the UV rays. Whereas the mineral-based ones, which don't do that, they don't affect your hormones. They don't, and again, unless it's nano, particularly it's not getting absorbed in your skin, they reflect UV rays. So in my experience, a 30 SPF mineral-based one versus a 30 SPF chemical-based one, the mineral-based ones, way more effective. Interesting. You don't have to apply it as much. You don't seem to get a sunburn because it's reflecting versus absorbing. So I don't know how they measure SPF, but in, again, in my experience, I have, I'm not fair, I'm not complexed, but my, my kids are much more fair than I am. And I use the mineral ones, and back in the day, I knew any better, I'd use the chemical- I always heard that SPF doesn't matter. I heard that once you get like, or to 15, I think, or- Does it make any difference? Yeah, that the- I've heard that. Oh, I disagree. I'm definitely like- You're more of an authority on this than I am for sure. That's true. SPF 40 million. Payton Piper, yeah. I'm like, I got to go 50 in this, you know, close to the equator. It really depends, but yeah, like I, yeah, like 30, like I have to like stick around that or between 30 and 50. 15 I can do if it's just like, you know- So I think if I recall, what I remember reading was that the difference between none to 30, there is a difference, but once you get beyond 30, there's no difference as well. There's a number that we, there's some that they talk about. I've heard this as well. Yeah. I don't know how true it is. I don't, either do I. I don't know. You can fact check me. I don't know if I- I don't know what's happened to me. That- But I mean, you just, I mean, you kind of confirm that right now, because you said 30, you need 30 at least. Yeah. Like, so the question really would be is there 30 and 50, if you notice a difference or not in it. So it- Oh, interesting. What's here? SPF 30 blocks nearly 97% of UVB, UVB radiation, SPF 50 blocks out 98%. Oh, okay. There it is. It's true as your point. Doug, look up, is mineral sunscreens more effective at preventing sunscreen than chemical sunscreens? And why are you doing that? Why not? Okay, so if it's, if it's healthy enough and good enough for your face, why not use it for the entire body? If it's 30 SPF. Well, you can. Yeah. This one's particularly designed for the face, but I mean, they sell them for the whole body. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. That's what my point is. You can use them all over the body. Yeah, why would it just be sunscreen and healthy for the face? Yeah. Is there a marketing reason behind that, you think? No, but I do think that when you're putting sunscreens on your face, that they'll put other compounds in there to reduce the odds of like breakouts and stuff like that. Yeah, that's so good. Because some sunscreens, you'll cause you to break out.  Is that what happened to you? Oh, yeah. I hate that. Oh, this is worse. Oh, I can't stand that. So yes, mineral sunscreens offer a more, the most protection because they're literally creating a physical separation between you and the sun. Interesting. Damn. So why, okay, then why, if it's better, it's better for you. So it's healthier. Yeah. It's more effective. Yeah. Is it because it's expensive? I think partly because of the white haze. Yes, that they can leave. No, no, no. Okay.  Because of the white haze. Mineral ones tend to leave, you can tell oftentimes that you've got something else. Except for Caldera's.  Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why they made it specifically for the face partly is because people have a problem with that. You know, obviously, I don't have a problem with that. I don't mind looking like a mime, but yeah, because people don't like having a white haze on their face, so they don't use it. So they switch to the chemical stuff instead and then they get the long-term effects from using that all the time.  I used to buy, it wasn't, it was like last week. No. I still used to. It's not right now. No, that's why I was way younger. I used to buy tanning oil, okay, that you spray on. And the only reason why I wore it is because it made me like glistening. You know what I mean? It's like put it on, walk around like, you know. Bathroom push-ups. Hey, it's now graduated of bathroom push-ups. That's what's graduating me. I've never in my life done push-ups. I can't laundry, you guys. Hey, what a terrible rule. That's my favorite rumor that I started because I think people really believe that. But I do push-ups together. Yeah, I think they do really well. Yeah.  Wow! I don't know how to remember that part, dude. He just added another outfit to it. Or maybe it's Doug. Maybe Doug's the baby oil. He's jealous. I was in the other room. All right. Do we have a shout-out for today? Oh, no. That guy. That guy, that one guy. Oh, you know what? You know who we should shout out? I was just on his podcast. Oh, Drew? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We haven't given him one, right? No. Okay, so today's shout-out. So I've been on this guy's show twice. His name is Drew Piruit. He's got an exceptional podcast. He's a really good interviewer. Very intelligent. He asks the right questions. He knows how to steer the conversation. He does a really good job. And he's just, his channel is continuing to explode. If you're into health, science, wellness, you gotta give this guy a listen. He's really, really good. Very entertaining. And again, he's got great guests on a show. So check him out. Check this out. There are botanicals out there. Herbs that have been shown to improve the body's ability to adapt to stress. All right, what does that mean? Well, building muscle, burning body fat, getting faster, more stamina. That's all adaptations to stress. But also, when you're overstressed, you can't think as sharply. You don't get good sleep. You just feel crappy. Well, anyway, there's a company that makes a product called Stress Guardian, which combines the 14 best adaptogenic herbs in one product to help your body acclimate to stress. Better. Go check them out. Go to stressguardian.com forward slash mine pump. All right, back to the show. Our first caller is Jamie from Canada. Jamie, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, guys, how are you? We're good. Thank you. Thank you for selecting me to ask my question. Big fan of you guys. I'm going to try not to be a fanboy. So, you know, this is just as cool as when I met Brett the Hitman Hart. Oh, my God. This is pretty awesome. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, it is twice. What an honor. Okay, cool. Ask this question. Yeah, so my question, it has to do with calories. As I said in my email, I am averaging between 2,900 and 3,000 calories per day. I track my, you know, my food as best as I possibly can. However, it's my job that I'm concerned about. So I am in a very physical demanding job. I work for Pepsi. And so like it's very on my feet. I'm lifting pallets. I am, you know, walking between 15 to 25,000 steps a day. My goal is to be at a 20% body fat around there. It's like, I don't feel this too outrageous. Right now I'm at 29 to 30% body fat. So, I mean, I feel like I have a long ways to go, but I'm doing a couple of your programs. And so I've been doing, I started with MAPS anabolic, did the whole phase. And then I listened to you guys about having a busy work lifestyle and you know, suggest maybe doing the MAPS 15. So then I purchased that.  So then I kind of got discouraged. And then I went on vacation. And then since I've come back from vacation, it's just been an uphill struggle. So this is where like, help me, I'll be one Kenobi, you're my only hope. Well, let me ask you a question. So you started with MAPS anabolic, you did MAPS 15, you got your deadlift up to 315. What did your body weight change within that period of time? It says here in the email that you're 225, I think it said. Did you- It did go up to like currently right now, I weighed myself this morning. I'm at 230 with a body fat percentage of still 28%. Wait a minute.  It stayed 28% and you went up five pounds. Yes. Okay, maybe someone could, let me do some of this math while I talk to you because you gained lean body mass. You might have gained a little bit of body fat, but you also gained some- Muscle. Body mass for sure and getting stronger. I mean, that's great.  Now you're at 230 at 28% body fat. You're at 64.4 pounds of body fat. So you literally went up 1.4 pounds of body fat, but almost four pounds of lean body mass. How are you testing your body fat? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I was expecting you guys to ask that. So I use just a Renfold smart scale. It's nothing phantatic, nothing scientific or whatever. It's just, and I know that as I've said, sorry. Oh, it's the bioelectric impedance, I believe, we hold it. So here's the good news about, I think you actually just, you shouldn't have been discouraged. You should have actually been very happy.  So you're actually on, yeah. You're actually right on track. One, it's a slow process.  But man, the signs of getting stronger and hitting a PR like that and not seeing the body fat percentage trend up is a really good sign that you are actually right in a nice sweet spot. You're actually doing great, man. So here's what it typically looks like, Jamie, with someone like you, right? So how long has it been since you've been, you started working out with our programs? Cause it sounded like you did one phase of anabolic and went into massive team. Like how many months or weeks have you been doing this? I think I, it was kind of immediately after I started listening to you guys, I would say about a year. So maybe six months just under a year ago, when I started listening to you guys and then I bought MAPS anabolic and then I finished the whole phase like one, two, three and then I transferred over to MAPS 15. But I was also doing both at the same time. So I was doing MAPS anabolic, like foundation workouts and then on my days off, like in between days, I would do a MAPS 15, like just two exercises and I would just kind of work out five days a week. Okay. Okay. Here's what I want. I'm going to give you some advice right now. Do not try to create your own programming. Okay. So taking our programs and combining them unless you're advised by one of us and we'll tell you specifically what to do, which we almost never do, by the way, with programs. What you're going to do is make both programs less effective is what you're going to do. Okay. Cause there's a lot that goes into programming that takes a lot of experience to kind of understand how to write programs, how to make them effective. It's still worked because you still got stronger, but you probably would have got better results had you not combined them. If you just stuck with MAPS anabolic or just stuck with MAPS 15, you probably have some better results. Did you actually hit a PR when you were doing MAPS 15 and anabolic combined together? Or is that? Yes. Wow. Yes. Wow. What was your deadlift at when you started, by the way? I think it was two plates. So 225. Yeah. Yeah. So okay. So when you follow our programs, follow one, don't combine them. Okay. So follow one, don't combine it. This is what it typically looks like with someone like you with your experience and what you're saying is you'll gain muscle first. You'll get stronger first. You might get a little body fat loss at first, but typically it's the muscle gain and the strength. And then you get this kind of snowball effect. Okay. Where if you, you know, imagine a snowball going down a hill and it starts off kind of slow, but as it starts to pick up more snow, it starts to speed up and then it starts to gain size faster and faster. So in this case, the fat loss starts off very slow. Muscle gain happens first, but then you start to see things start to snowball as a metabolism speeds up, as you continue to get stronger, as you start to do things better and better, you start to see faster and faster results versus what a lot of people experience when they do things the wrong way is they get this initial weight loss and then they plateau super hard. So it's like, oh, 15 pounds loss or 10 pounds loss and then nothing. So you're moving in the right direction for sure. Now it says here you're averaging about 2,800 to 3,000 calories. How do you feel eating that?  Are you hungry? I feel like I can eat more because of like throughout the day I'm so active. Yeah, I 100% try to do my protein but my fats and carbs are kind of later in the day because I'm in my car about 800 miles a week average because I'm driving to and from store to store. So like I don't necessarily have something to eat during the day per se other than a shake. I'll have a couple of shakes and then maybe a sandwich, like turkey sandwich or something. And then at nighttime when I'm at home is when I'll have my whole foods. Like I'll have a chicken with some rice, potatoes, vegetables, that sort of thing. Okay, are you hitting 200 grams of protein at least every single day? I'm glad you asked that because I am but I'm also doing more. Like I'm averaging maybe 230. That's fine, that's okay. I go from 200 to 230 on a day to day average. Like nevertheless, nevertheless the 200. You're on the right track. Yeah, that's fine. You're totally on the right track. I would keep your calories where they're at, be consistent with your workouts and continue to try to get stronger. And go ahead. Well, I just bought on Black Friday your MAPS and Ebola advance. Should I transfer back? No, not yet. I would continue to do MAPS 15. I like the idea of MAPS 15 and the only thing time I would toggle back to MAPS and Ebola right now is only if you had like time off or your movement at work slowed down. I think for how much you move and how physically active you are at work, MAPS 15 is probably gonna give you the best results right now. And so I would follow just that.  And really the sign of body fat percentage staying the same while you're getting stronger is a really good place to be right now. If you start to get stronger, which I am gonna estimate that you will, okay?  If you're, and you get good sleep, if you're doing that, then what'll probably happen is your body weight will stay the same or go down a little bit, but you'll continue to get stronger. If that happens, you are gold. If your weight, if the weight on the bar is going up and your body weight is the same or starts to go down, you're crushing.  And on my days off, should I do MAPS anabolic or just strictly stay as a theme? Follow the program as it's laid out. Yeah, trust the process. 100%. You know what, are you on Facebook? Can we put you in the forum? That would be phenomenal. I've heard about this, but you think, yes, absolutely. I'm gonna have Doug put you in the private forum and then I just would love to hear an update from you, say three or four weeks down the road, let us know what's going on. Yeah, because we're gonna wanna change gears at some point till we'll start to cut calories. I just don't think cutting calories right now was the best approach. I agree. But at some point we will cut calories and if you're in the forum and giving us updates every 30 days or so, then we'll be able to better assess when that should happen. For sure, I will definitely do that. Thank you so much. I just wanna say, Sal, I resonate with you because I have a 14 year old daughter as well. So, I mean, I'm 100% with you. Adam, I'm a big baller. I love basketball. I'm sorry that my Raptors, you know, took out your warriors and here's the goal. And Justin, I'm a big paranormal person too. And I've watched full season of Ghost Town Terror. Great show. Keep doing what you guys are doing. I love yous. Thank you very much for answering my question. Appreciate it, Jamie. Thanks for calling in. Yep, bye now. When it comes to the pursuit of fat loss, fitness, improving your health, you said something, Adam, that I don't think we do communicate it but we don't say it directly enough. Patience. Patience is such, is so key because more people's programs, more people's pursuits, more people have been screwed up by wanting to rush the process. Self-sabotage. Yeah, not even a million. I mean, it's been another thing. And then adding to it. So that's why I love that we steered them back to Maths 15 because, you know, having that basis and really assessing like what, how it's benefiting you, because you can always add versus subtracting is a different place to be. I can't tell you how many times or what percentage of people hurt themselves, meaning not hurt like physically hurt but hurt their programming when they were doing great. I would say more often than not, somebody was actually doing really well and ended up altering what they were doing because they didn't see their results. And this, by the way too, this also speaks to why we're not big fans of the before and afters and the look that I lost in 30 days and highlighting because then it gets his perception to somebody like Jamie, who was actually doing really good. In fact, he may be doing perfect, but because he doesn't see this massive swing in his body fat percentage or he doesn't see the scale drop way down, like then he assumes that he must be, because he's listening to all the other advice. I must be doing something wrong. And then they, then what does he do? Piles more workouts in her does too much or does what he does. It's like, man, you're doing great. You just don't realize that it just takes time. It's a slow process. Here's the bottom line. If you are progressing, okay, if you are progressing, there's no such thing as too slow, but there's definitely such a thing as too fast, 100%. So keep that in mind when you're trying to pursue whatever fitness goal you have. Our next caller is Caitlin from Wyoming. Hey, Caitlin, how can we help you? Hey guys, this is really cool. Thank you. I'll just get right into it. I've been listening for just over a year, probably not even, and your content is awesome. I have, I started as somebody who loved to work out like hit style, high intensity training, just get as much sweat as possible. And now I've transitioned after listening to you guys to just mainly focus on really heavy lifting. However, I'm finding I have a lot of difficulty with my grip strength. I've been, I've got about halfway through anabolic and I feel like it could actually lift heavier, but my like forearm strength, my grip strength tends to give out. And that's in the traditional deadlift, but also sometimes I'll try to do like a single leg deadlift just holding dumbbells. And I definitely could go heavier there, but it's my forearms are weak. And I know a while back, I went back and I tried to find it, but you guys talked about like a correlating calf strength versus grip strength. And I am a case study of that. I was genetically blessed with a great thick muscular calves, but I don't seem to have a great forearm grip strength. So anyway, I was looking for some help there. Yeah, okay. So by the way, there's no science to support that. What was it? It was like a funny thing. No, I'm a case study, I'm a case study. All right, so I'm gonna rephrase your question because people, when they look at the grip for some reason, they don't put it in the same category as let's say other muscles or body parts when doing a lift. So I'm gonna say something that's similar to what you said, but I think it'll highlight the point that I'm trying to make. So, hey, I can squat. I think I could squat way more than I can, but my legs aren't strong enough. Sounds very obvious. I will, okay, well yeah, obviously. So if your hands aren't strong enough to hold the bar, then that's the weight that you can lift. In other words, you may feel like you can lift more weight if you had different hands, but you can't, therefore that's your limit. So work within your limit. However, there's a second part to this which is I've identified a weakness. How can I get this weakness to speed up its progress? Or how can I pull up this weak chain in the link, right? And so the way to do this, first off, there's a couple of things you can do to improve your grip just because it helps with the bar slipping out. You could try chalk or liquid chalk.  You could buy something called liquid chalk, which most gyms are okay with you using. And it'll make your hands less slippery on the bar. And actually the studies will show that chalk will add between two to 5% more strength to somebody's grip when they're holding onto something. That's usually enough to make a significant difference. So try that. The second thing is take some volume off of your arm exercises.  Now the reason why I'm saying that is a lot of times people will say I want my grip to get stronger and they just add volume or add exercises for grip strength without taking them away from somewhere else and then they overwhelm their body with just too much overall volume. So let's say you're doing an arm workout and let's say that day you're gonna do six sets for your biceps. Well, you could do just three sets and then do three sets dedicated towards strengthening your grip. And there's a lot of exercises that'll help you do this. You could do farmer walks, you could do wrist curls, you could even buy a gripper and they sell varying degrees of intensity with grippers to where you're actually doing it as an exercise and then you'll find like any of the body part it'll start to get stronger and start to catch up. I 100% agree with all that tip. I also found training singles, doubles and triples did this for me too. So I don't know if you've ever done that before because most of our programming is five reps, right? So the phase one is a minimum of five reps. We don't normally program three reps of anything or two reps or one rep of anything, not because any other reason that there's high risk for someone who's never lifted before and so we don't program it in. But I do think there's value in training this way. So what you would do is like, let's say when you're in a MAPS anabolic phase one and instead of doing five reps, you might do two reps. So pick an even heavier weight and only do two reps. But you're not maxing out though. You're right, you're just picking a heavier weight than what you could do five because now you're only having to do two and just the body adapting to holding on to a heavier weight tends to build strength in the forearms and grip strength. And a lot of times when the grip gives out it's not the first one it gives out on it gives out on rep four or five it's like you feel it probably slipping out of your hands, right? And so just you training an even heavier weight. Getting comfortable. Getting comfortable with holding on to a heavier weight for one rep or two reps. And then, you know, then setting the bar down you'll see sometimes your grip strength and forearms. I felt that personally the most come up from just simply doing that. It's usually the unfamiliar things you introduce to your body where you're going to have to work a little harder. And so it may seem like that's the point where a failure because, you know, you're trying to hold something you're not quite as familiar with that weight or that particular grip. And so to train that a little bit more frequently makes a lot of sense. And also to like the muscle endurance component to that. We mentioned farmer walks and things like that. We're actually holding something heavy and walking with it. I found to be very, very helpful and translates well when you're trying to hold and grip something because a lot of times too is like, you know, you're going through the rep and you think it's a short amount of time but after a few of these reps it's really, it's the endurance part of it where I'm not used to holding something heavy for that long so that's where the fail point is. The key to this though will be if you add anything to the routine like the farmer walks or pinch grip stuff or some of the things that Sal was suggesting is to make sure that you take away. You replace. Yeah, you replace something else in the workout because the mistake I think somebody makes when they're in pursuit of like grip strength is they pile on to their already heavy. Give me the over train. And then they just overdo it and then they get weaker sometimes. Sometimes they'll come back and be like, I don't understand. I started doing all these four exercises. Like a tennis elbow. Yeah, now I can lift less weight and so the key would be just pulling some things out some arm exercises out of the routine and adding in these four on ones. But I really liked the farmer walks and I really liked the suggestion of the singles and doubles and triples. I found that those are two big things that helped me personally.  So I started working out as a kid in my backyard and very quickly, probably by the time I was 16 or 17. So I was 14 when I started working out. By the time I was 16 or 17, I had learned about a tool called wrist straps and bodybuilders use these. And what they do is they go around your wrist and then you wrap them around the bar and basically it holds the bar for you. You barely have to use any grip strength and allows you to use more weight, et cetera, et cetera. And so because the bodybuilders did it, I bought some. They're very inexpensive. And I always used wrist straps for every back exercise up until probably the age of, I wanna say maybe, it was my late 20s, so maybe 27. And then I had this trainer that I worked with who just explained this to me. It's like, you know, our hands are meant to be very strong. And I knew this, you know, kind of on the side because my father worked blue collar work. His hands were always very strong. And I said, yeah, you know, you're right. Like, you know, I've been using these wrist straps. You know, I wonder how strong I can get my hands or whatever. And so I decided, I remember like yesterday, I literally decided I'm never gonna use wrist straps again and I'm gonna just work out without them. It took me over two years for my hands to catch up to the strength that my back and my legs could produce. So it took a long time for my hands to get that strength. So be patient, they will get strong. And again, our hands are just not strong. I mean, aside from working out, when do you really test out the strength of your hands? Probably never, most people don't. So give it some time and they'll catch up. You will be able to hold on to the weight that you can lift. It won't feel like right now there's this huge discrepancy. You just gotta give it some time. Okay. Well, yeah, cause I've been using like for years and years, like 20 pound dumbbells in each hand and then I'm going up like 200 pound barbell. It's a huge, huge transition. The next question I have is, I've seen people do like an overhand grip or like a flip grip, like one overhand, one underhand. Have you found that that's helpful or beneficial in any way? You'll lift more weight with what's called an alternate grip. So one hand forward, one hand back. You will for sure be able to hold on to more weight. There is some risk to it though. And I personally act out, I train that way as well when I would dead lift real heavy. I got into the habit of always using the same alternate grip when I would hit my top heavy sets and I developed an imbalance. So if you use an alternate grip, cause you can't hold on to more weight when you're dead left doing this, if you do always switch it off and make sure you're even on which hand is supinated, which hand is pronated. Otherwise you will, you will develop an imbalance that'll be all the way up and down the kinetic chain, which is what happened to me. I had my left side was definitely more developed than my right side as a result. The other option is use what's called a hook grip that Olympic lifters use.  It hurts and it takes a long time to get used to. Very difficult. It took me over two and a half years to really get that mastered. So you can use the alternate grip. Just every set, make sure you alternate it. Don't favor one side.  I mean, you're doing really, you literally have just kind of made this transition in the last year.  It'll come. You keep dead lifting and pushing the strength. The grip will come along. You take some of the pieces of advice we're given. It's gonna be, I think you're doing phenomenal already, but to your point, for years and years and years, you trained all these light weights and hit style.  And now the hands just got to catch up and they will. They will. By the way, are you pulling over 200 pounds off the floor? Yeah. Great job. You went from 20 pound dumbbells at 200 pounds. Yeah, you're doing phenomenal. Holy cow. What are the changes in your body from, by the way, just if you don't mind me asking, training the way you did before with all the hit stuff or whatever to getting stronger? What have you noticed? Yeah, well, that's been interesting because in anticipation of this call, I kind of stepped on the scale for the first time today in a long time and my weight is up heavier than it's been in a long time. But I am in a smaller size gene than I've ever been in. So it's really interesting. It was kind of a weird mind game this morning when I stepped on the scale. I'm like, oh, you know, I haven't seen that number since babies, but in no doubt. It is. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, that's exactly what you want. Would you rather weigh less and look worse or look better and weigh more? You know what I mean? Who cares? That happens to every female I've ever trained. They always, I tell them not to weigh themselves. What does your partner say? That's what, that's the better, that's the better question. He loves where I'm at. Yeah, that's, yeah. There's a better person to ask that question. And if something happens, there's an accident, you can pick them up now and help them. I know. I came home, I told them. I just, I just dead lifted 200 pounds. That's him. So I was pretty stoked about that. That's very, very cool. Well, thanks for calling in, Caitlin. What program are you following right now, Vars? I've been bouncing around just with Matt's anabolic and then just doing my own thing. Like I said, I'm not, it's new to me. So it's been a little, it's been crazy. You know, I've really liked anabolic. I haven't gotten all the way through it cause I'll do, I'll run it for a week. And then I kind of just go do my own thing, which probably isn't great. And then I'm going to jump back to it. Listen to me. Listen to me. Follow our program all the way through if you want the best results. I'm going to send you another program. I think you're going to like. Strong. Yeah. God, you hit red my, red my mind. I'm going to send you map strong. Yeah. Okay. I would love that. Follow, but please, can you promise you'll finish it? Otherwise I won't, I'll make you buy it. I won't give it to you. I promise, I promise, I promise. We're going to come for our money later. All right. I would, I would love that. Thank you guys so much. You got it. Thanks for calling him. Okay. Thank you. You got it. Yeah. The whole grip thing. It's like, listen, here's the bottom line. There, there's always a weak link that is going to determine the max weight you can lift. Yeah. Okay. So it doesn't matter what that weak link is. That's the weight you can lift. Now you can add things to make you lift weight in which like I can deadlift X amount of pounds with a belt on. I make sure to tell people that cause they take the belt off and the weight goes down a good 30, 40 pounds. So there's always a weak link. That's the determining factor. And if, unless you don't care about having a balanced body you don't want strong hands on. You're just strong in the gym. You know, you should evaluate that. Yeah. Yep. I think she's doing a great job. I appreciate it. And then after we find out that she's not even flowing the program all the way to a T, I think just her doing that, she's going to see it come on. Oh my God. I love what she said. She's heavier, but in smaller clothes. Yes. Ladies pay attention. Yeah. That's perfect. Next caller is Kevin from Nevada. Kevin, how do we join that game? Representing what is that? Dad gang? I don't know. I could be in a gang as a dad. What is that? Yeah, dad gang. Like the best gang to be in, right guys? We have to be jumped in or what? Yeah. What's happening?  So let's start with the most important ones so we can get at least answer those. Okay. Yeah, definitely. So for context, I do want to go into really quick. I'll save the thank you for the end because it might be too long. I actually have thank you for each of you, including Doug. So I'll save that to the end. But for context, I am 30 years old. I have two kids and so I personally have never started and even touched a barbell until I was 27 years old. More for the ignorance through, like my whole family's generation is like you're going to get hurt from that. That's all we knew. So until you guys, until I found you guys is when I actually did strength training with, you know, barbell work. So now I am in the maps power lift. I love it because I found out some of my friends have told me like to try and join some powerlifting meets. I don't want to do that yet, but I am on the peak phase. I just started it this week. And I was wondering, I know it says on the calendar to rest for a week or it says a rest day on like the second half of that last week. And then I don't know when to attempt the one rep max like the new one rep max. Do I wait a full week? Yes. Yes. Typically you wake, wait a full week. Now that doesn't mean you necessarily do nothing, although, although I know a lot of lifters will do very little. But what you can do, and this is what I used to like to do whenever I would set myself up for an attempted PR is I would definitely have that week off in terms of heavy training or hard training. And I would just go to the gym and practice technique. That's all I would do. So I would go very late. Wait, yeah. And a lot of times what will happen is when you're practicing technique, you might feel it. Like I always personally could just know like, oh, today's gonna be the day. Oh yeah, yeah. Like there's gonna be times where you are planning a PR day and you're just not gonna feel it. You're gonna, that first 135 warm-up set is gonna feel like a million pounds and you're like, today's not the day you do that. And then other days. I think it's a better way to do it. That's how I, so I like to have that week scheduled as I'm not gonna try and PR for the, until this next week. And sometime in that time period, I'm kind of working on technique and I'm going, I'm basing it off of how I feel in the warm-up on if I'm gonna try and get after it today. And so that to me is a better strategy than saying, hey, five days after the end of the program, then go hit your PR. Well, if you didn't get good night, sleep the night before, it's not a good strategy whatsoever. But, and maybe three days after, you're already well rested, well fed. The warm-up weight is like coming up off the floor easy. Go get it. So that's kind of how we love it. The thing is for sure, you won't get weaker if you took a week off. That's not how quick, strength doesn't go down that fast unless you get sick or there's other circumstances. Got it. And yeah, that answers, I guess, one of my other questions of what light exercises, but it'll all be just the technique work. Yeah, I used to do foam rolling, mobility and practice. I would practice the exercise. And that'll always set me up very well. Got it. Okay, thank you. And then now the diet part, I've just been on a maintenance, like throughout this whole program, never changed it one bit. I'm at like 27 to 2900 calories a day. And for context on that, I am, I'm a small guy. I'm five, four, 149 pounds. So that amount of food for me is like, I've never ate that much in my life. I used to be at like 1500, 1600. Awesome. That's great. Should I just stay there before I hit this or attempt the one rep or do I now push a little bit more on the calories? Oh yeah, push it. So okay, so I'll give you some, these are, by the way, these are little hacks. They're not going to like be the big game-chainers, but they will, they will add something. So I would always say, what? You're going to boost his cholesterol. Well, I wouldn't even, that's even one, that's even a step further than what I'm going to say. I would go 48 hours before I would bump your calories. So I would go up, you know, you're at 2700. I would eat closer to 3,100 calories, 48 hours before and stay consistent with that. Make sure two hours before the lift, you have an easily digestible, so something doesn't blow you. That's the important part, yeah. Easily digestible meal. I would also, do you drink coffee or take caffeine or pre-workout? Yeah, pre-workout, I drink Celsius sometimes throughout the day. Okay, I would wean yourself down caffeine for the week off. So let's say you have 400 milligrams of caffeine a day, I would get it down to 200 or less, leading up to the day of, then the day of, go with your full dose. It'll hit you like a Mack truck and you're going to feel like super-powered from it. Look, those two things alone would typically get me a nice five to 10 pounds over what I would normally be able to do. Got it. And then my last question, I think I already answered this for myself. I am looking to compete next year just because some of my friends have told me like the weight class that I could be in, it is pretty possible in my place. I don't know. I'm trying to hit like a 405 deadlift, 205 bench and 375 squat. I don't know if that's even.  Yeah, that's great. What have you done on your deadlift at 145 pounds? What have you hit? Well, on the deadlift right now, I'm at 395. Yeah, bro. Yeah, you're strong.  Especially considering you just now really got into this last couple of years. You just started? Yeah. I just started, you mean maps, powerlifter, you mean training? No, just in general. You said 20, 70, you said you're 30, right? You've only been lifting for two or three years now? Yeah, like I never... Yeah, bro, you're doing good. Do you pull Sumo? No, conventional just because I think that looks better. Wow, and you pull conventional? Agreed, agreed, bro. This also knew your thing, I don't want to...  I know you didn't ask this question, but just for fun. Guy, typically when you're shorter in size, the Sumo style typically gives you better leverage. So you might want to mess around with that, see what happens. I like your idea, though, of doing conventional. Just say it again, bro. Connection looks definitely better. I'm pro-conventional. I tell Lane all the time, it doesn't count. His deadlift's not that bad. He actually loves that. Now, so I am trying to see what I would max out at this year before I even try and do a meet next year. So I'm thinking, is it best to just stay as keep it all squat, veg, deadlift in one day when I attempt this instead of trying to split it out? Oh, like to mirror a competition? I mean, you can, you're not literally training for a meet right now. So it's kind of like whatever. You know, I don't think it's that necessary. And I think when you get ready for your first real meet. By the way, too, if I can encourage you to sign up sooner than later, you'll be happy because, and I know getting on stage is different than competing in a powerlifting meet. But part of like, you're going to want to just sign up and get through the process. Is that first thing? Yeah, what to expect, getting the nerves out, how I should eat before. There's a lot of things that you're going to need to figure out. And you'd rather get that out sooner than later anyways than try and time it all.  And on top of that, I'm going to be my first time ever doing an event. It's like get the first event jitters out of the way of like, what's it like on the new guy? It takes some of the pressure out of it. Yeah, it does. That way when you go in the second time, you've already got that out. And now you're, so that would be my advice. It's sooner than later. I do like doing them all three on the same day though because... Because it's going to mirror the event. Yeah, and get used to the feel of it. And to be honest with you, when you do each of them separately, there's always a question of which one do I do today? Which one do I do tomorrow? Which one do I do the day after? I would mirror the meet and do them in that order and take a long break in between your maxes. So I would do whatever you start with your squat. I would wait 20 minutes before attempting to go for my deadlift and then same thing. And then my bench, you can maybe not rest as much, but I would give yourself like a couple of hours to do all of them. Got it. OK, thank you. And now it brings me to another question, Adam. You brought up maybe sign up a little bit earlier than waiting till next year fall or something. I was planning on, because of what you guys have helped me understand with body compagious and change and just reverse dieting, I was planning on. I bought split because I want to now achieve like the best aesthetic look I've ever had for the summer. I was planning on starting that January, just so it kind of reaches up until summer where you can go swim and you kind of show off what you got. Yeah. Is that going to hurt me in the effects of strength to try and do that, then go back into our lives? No, no, no, I don't want to help you. Yeah.  You're not going to go embarrass yourself. You're going to do well. Whether you win or not your first time, who cares? I would sign up, go do it. No matter what you're programming right now, like you're already strong enough in those lips that you're going to go have a good experience. That's I mean, whether you go win or not, I think you're going to have a good experience. And so I would go sign up for that no matter where I'm kind of at in what type of program I'm following. Get that out of the way. And then when you're like, OK, now that I know this is going to be like, I'm going to pick this date. I'm going to follow the program three months before. And then you could really like dial it all in. And during that process, running split to interrupt it in the middle is it's all going to help you. Yeah. Awesome. OK. Thank you, guys. Now, I do want to do the thank you before I get off of here if I can. And now this is to each of you. Before I even start the thank you, though, I want to give context on this. I mentioned I'd never started strength training until 27 years old, again, from ignorance and really from embarrassment. My insecurity is being small. I would hate. I hated even trying to walk into the gym. All I did was play basketball. But when I would pass the strength training part, I would see, of course, like I'm small. I'm a guy. I see girls like doing lifts and I'm like, there's no freaking way I can do this. So I'll just like walk by.  Like, what am I going to do? Like, try and lift up that barbell. And if I like, I don't know, commit suicide with my neck. I don't want to even do that. So all I knew was, do you guys know Mike Chang's six-pack truck? Yeah, yeah, Mike Chang. Wow, yeah, I do. That's all I knew back then. So hit training. I would think I would have Mike Chang's aesthetic. Never would have that. I would much more have like a Smurf body if you could say. It did not look good. I'm short, so it did not look good. So here's what I did. I actually heard of you guys back in like 2016. I didn't really listen. I was just like, I was listening, but I didn't hear anything. Then I heard something about like, go to a trainer. I went to Lifetime Fitness because my ignorance is like, go to the most expensive gym. I'm probably going to definitely get results. I'm paying a lot. I went to this trainer. I told this trainer I want to look like Manny Pacquiao in like six months. Said, got it, I'll do it. He gave me, he put me on this like, I was already eating maybe 1600 calories. He got me like 300 less calories a day, made me not eat carbs, told me when I go to the bathroom, just like be ready. It's going to be like liquid.  So I was traumatized. And again, now I was like 25 years old at the time, finally trying to do something else in basketball. Again, I only heard of you guys or started listening to you guys again, because I was going to have my first kid, my son. And I was embarrassed internally. I would never feel proud of myself. I was embarrassed because I could barely even pick up my nephews like for a long period of time.  And here I am looking like I'm like eighth grader. I look like I'm probably like Justin's kid. Like there's no way I don't want to be like that. Now I do want to thank you guys big time. This is the thank you. I've never been more proud of myself and I never knew that I would even have this kind of feeling. Not only as being strong, like I feel super strong now. I've never thought at 30 is when I can even still continue to grow. And then as far as strength or doing this kind of training, I'll post this on social media. I didn't know this would naturally like, I've never met more friends. So I know Sal, you always mentioned like the gym space is probably the most friendly space. I've met more people because of this, never got more respect, never got more close to so many people that are like growth minded, met so many other people that are parents trying to do the same damn thing. So it's crazy. And I want to thank you guys for that big time. It's amazing, man. I definitely want to say this. Now this has to go away from the fitness, thank you. But I never realized what you guys would have done for me in my mindset is you guys helped me redefine these things. And these are important to me because my wife and I are kind of traumatized by hearing this so many times. You know, we're like 24 years old, 25 years old. Back then we would always hear, oh just wait till you're 30 and you start hearing you can start getting these nagging pains naturally like walking up the steps, getting out of bed. You guys wipe that away.  They always say, just wait till you guys have kids. And this means my wife and I never drink. But they would always tell us like, oh just wait till you have kids, you guys are gonna start wanting to drink.   I think it's just probably their perspective on having kids, sadly. I don't want to have any kind of perspective on that. I listen to you guys all the time and it's so awesome to be able to redefine and see validation that here's like four dads, including Doug, they get to talk about the positive impact, trying to be better husbands, better fathers. And it doesn't go into a negative space just because you all of a sudden become a parent. I wanna mention this part is, I was very ambitious. So business was something that attracted me. Unfortunately, I know meeting mentors, potential mentors that make six, seven figures, has a heavy load on like, I'll listen to them. But one of the things that I've always heard was like, getting fat, getting out of shape, it's normal when you're in the prime time part of building a business. So I would always think like, okay, I don't have to worry about getting in shape till later. Luckily again, you guys talk about how important it is to stay in shape. Like how much that's gonna help not only your body, but everything else. And then this is the one that always gets me emotional because anytime I have somebody that's about to be a parent that I know, I always want to mention, never listen to this, but I wanna hear your guys' thing on this. One of the things the mentor told me, my previous mentor, when your kids are born up till about they're like four years old, you don't even have to worry about being there. Like you don't have to worry about being present, being at these accomplishments because they're too little, too young to even ever remember. So go hard and work hard and be ambitious because they're not gonna remember this. Never more have I been more thankful to hear you guys because if it wasn't for you guys, I would have done that. My son is two and a half years old now, not trying to get emotional. My daughter is three months old and I've been with them like 24 seven. I've avoided trying to miss any little thing because I didn't know like, I'm sorry to get emotional guys, damn, I didn't think I was gonna freaking do this. But never more have I been more proud that I've been more present rather than trying to chase the ambition that I do have. Like I've been more patient on that. So I just wanna say that. Now for the specifics, Adam, thank you for talking about your relationship with money before and after kids because I can relate totally to that. I had a horrible relationship where I almost literally ignored my whole family because I was chasing the money for this big house, nice car, all that stuff. After kids, I've been way more patient. It's been like, we're gonna get that, but home is being with them.  Doesn't matter where it is. Sal, you mentioned it on like two episodes ago.  I relate that to that totally because I've always wanted kids even when we were super young, my wife and I. And then never more have I been known or been more confident of like, yeah, I wanna be a dad till now because we have two kids, we have the boy and girl. We said no more, but there is like that itch. I'm like, damn, like I do want more kids. I know we agreed on that no more, but I'm like, do it. I freaking love them, I love them. So I'm trying not to, but you know, I keep telling my wife just jokes here and there, like maybe we can have more.  So I'd always be thinking like, dang, Justin is pretty quiet. I know he talks here and there, but I wanna thank you for being like who you say you are. Not that Sal and Adam, you're not, but Justin, like when you say you really observe, sit back and don't need to talk, like you really do that.  And I love that because I feel like I'm like that. There was a time where I'm like, damn, maybe I have to change and I do have to like talk a lot more. But you've helped me, you know, revalidate that you don't have to be like that. And I wanna say this, Justin, I'm gonna try not to get emotional here because I'm gonna talk about my dad.  You talk about how it is sometimes your kid has no idea how tired you are. Sometimes there was a time you mentioned you had to volunteer and you basically became the main guy of volunteering to set up all this stuff. That was my dad. Mr. like do it all, be there all the time.  And I would talk about all the time he was at the basketball games. He was the one at the practice like even trying to shove me like, you know, even trying to check me.  And I just wanna say, Justin, you always every single time I hear about you talking about your son, he always brings back to me appreciating my dad more. So thank you for that. And then Doug, I know I can't see you but I just gotta have to say this.  I wouldn't even show you three because it's like, you know, kind of obvious as hosts. I'm like, yeah, you better, you guys better be fit, right? As hosts of fitness.   So thank you for that.  Like I can't listen to any other podcasts anymore because it's not the same, like I can't, you know the quality, like when you guys talk about stuff you guys actually show it. Can't thank you enough for that because I didn't know how much of a little detail like that can ruin all the other great podcasts that I used to listen to. But starting to take up all that time, you guys I just, I had to say that because it means a lot to me. I started in this late, but I feel like the youngest, the strongest I've ever been in my life. And then I feel like that correlation not only for me but to trying to be the best husband to my wife and the best father to my kids is like, I owe it to you guys. So thank you for that. Thank you. God bless you man. Listen, do you have split? Let's send you a split if you don't have it. And if you do, we'll send you a symmetry. That's another program I think you'd like. I do have it, but I was thinking of if I bought maps started from my wife, can I get maps started from my wife? Yeah, there we go, done deal. My wife has never, never worked out before if she wants to. We'll send that to you. We'll send it out to you. You got it, you got it, man. Thank you guys. I appreciate it big time. Thank you for the words Kevin. Thank you for the compliments. Thank you. Boris, thank you. All right. That was nice. Yeah. That was really nice. Yeah. Got me choked up a little bit. You know what's funny about what he was saying? Not funny, but interesting. Boy, nothing is a more powerful, self-reflective tool than having kids, huh? Oh man. If you have a kid that's like, okay, I got hello mirrors, yeah, I got to do this. That and the confidence that comes from building strength. Yeah. The process, right? The whole thing, right? Amazing. And I'll tell you what, he's strong.  How cool is that to most of your life to have felt weak, insecure, afraid to even go into the way room to have gone to a point where you could probably go compete in a powerlifting event and do well. Oh yeah. Bro, he's almost, he's at triple body weight. Almost triple body weight, deadlift. Very, very, very few people with years and years of training can do that. I can't, I can't triple my body weight. That's crazy. It's super impressive. Our next caller is Justin from Pennsylvania. Justin, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey, how you guys doing? Yeah. We're doing great. Another Justin, what's up, buddy? That's right, that's right. I'm excited to be on this. I've been listening to you guys since March of this year. Just moved out to Pittsburgh and started redoing my fitness journey as we were preparing to welcome our second child to the world. So, you know, things have changed in even two months as you know, having a newborn but the question's still very relevant and it's really centered around sleep. So, I'm sure you all could relate having kids of your own and what I wanted to say to start is I came here for the fitness but a lot of the fatherly advice you all give is tremendous. I want to thank you for all that as well. So, I'll get right into it. I've been listening to your podcast. It's been really helpful. I started listening back in March as I said, I'm a physical therapist by trade but I work in management in the home health sector where I oversee home health therapy in five states. So, it's a very time consuming job which is very rewarding but on top of that having two children under two, well, I mean, my second child just turned two on Thanksgiving. So, we welcomed our youngest about three and a half months ago. So, between the work time, the stress, bouncing the newborn and the two year old, obviously sleep has taken quite the hit. So, when I started listening to you all in March, I went in with anabolic and I've also had bot aesthetic strength, made tremendous gains by doing all three of those. Also started to refocus on my diet. Of course diet has done a little bit of a slip because you just kind of eat when you have time, when you have all this going on but I've shifted to more focusing on hitting my protein intake. The biggest link for me though these days is sleep where I used to average about seven to eight hours a night. It's gone down to as low as three to four. Some nights I could get a little more but of course it's interrupted depending on how the baby is cooperating. So, wanted to just kind of circle back with this question with the new added member to the family, the lack of sleep. I'm really looking for some advice in how you can continue to maintain or continue to gain throughout that time because I think I am developing quite the negative relationship with exercise and I'll give a little timeframe if I don't get sleep. I miss the window of time for the gym. If I miss the gym, I am a pain, I'm a bear to deal with and when I'm at that point, my wife's first reaction is always, I'll take the kid, you gotta get to the gym now. And so, when I do go however, all that stress goes away and I try to get as much gym time as possible. So, my typical routine is trying to get there before the day starts but if life takes control of that, I might have to shift to the end of the day or nine or 10 p.m. even which can really eat into my personal downtime. So, all of that being said, my question really is just searching for any tips and tricks in assuring that I'm not jeopardizing gains be it physically, mentally or in my relationships due to my lack of sleep and given that you all have likely been through it with your children, I figure you might have some good advice and just want to thank you for allowing me to be on this with you all. Yeah, Justin, the thing to really consider and understand with fitness in general. Okay, so let's talk about the workout routine in general and even diet. I mean, we can even put this in that same category. If this is something you're gonna do for the rest of your life, it has to be, the only approach has to be, how can I use this in a way to improve the quality of my life? Okay? And that's gonna change depending on the context of what's going on.  You're in the middle of war, dog. Yeah, you got a three-month-old, you got a two-month-old.  And actually, it feels like it. I know, because I just, I'm coming out of it now, I'm still kind of in it. But it won't last forever. It's something, you know, within five years or so, they'll be sleeping more or you're not gonna have to worry about a type of deal. But right now, you're not getting good sleep and it's a good reason. Your child is more important than a lot of different things. So you're there for the baby, you're there for your wife. You have to modify your training, your diet to help you to improve the quality of your life. What's that gonna look like? Well, you mentioned it, stress relief. Right. Well, work out for that. That's the main focus. I don't think working out to hit PRs, to keep your gains, to build muscle is gonna be a good approach. If you train like that, not only will you not get those things with the lack of sleep, but you'll also take away from the quality of life and you'll take away from all the other stuff you're trying to get. In this type of a case, MAPS 15 would be kind of an ideal type of a structure. Or every day, you're doing about 15 minutes of strength training and I would even use the suspension trainer version of it so that it's super convenient. And if you can get to the gym, then you can do the barbell version of it. But that's it. That's gonna be your best bet. And what you'll find is you'll get the stress relief from it. You'll feel good. It's almost every day. I think it's a six day a week program. Very low volume obviously. The intensity is moderate. And it will, that's the most likely to improve the quality of your life. Any of our other programs, given what you just said, would be inappropriate and would make things worse. And so that's just, you gotta just, that's how you have to look at your workouts. Are they making my life better? I feel like it's become the official like TAD program. It is, it is. It's an avatar. It's also perfect for something else that anybody that's been a dad has gone through. This is like, sometimes you have a day where you do feel good.  And so you kind of have this, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's bad. What's cool with the way that program is written is you could actually put two of the workouts together. You can stack them. So like what I would do in your situation is when I'm feeling great, I might actually do a 30 minute workout. I'll do the, you know, Monday and Tuesday workout basically together because it's a day I feel really rejuvenated. I feel good. It's really a day that I feel not as good. I might only do 15 minutes and then a day I feel really bad. That might be the day I skip and I take it off. So, and so it's very modifiable because of you're only really doing two major exercises every day and we alternate them so that you could literally do, you know, Monday and Tuesday together or how they're laid out. And so I just think that and to Sal's point at this point right now, you're not really, you're not, you don't want to be like concerned about, oh, am I still hanging on to my strength in PRs? And do I still look ripped? It doesn't make any sense. No, like you just, the biggest thing that I heard you say, which is I think we're all very similar. We all have this in common is like, I'm just a better man when I'm training and I'm getting to the gym. I'm more helpful as a husband. I'm a better father. I'm in a better mood. And so if that's the truth and that's really why I'm doing it and what motivates me, then who gives a shit if I'm not squatting as much as what I was squatting seven months ago or I don't look quite as good as I did when I was getting on who cares as long as I'm getting in there, I'm doing these movements that I know are supporting me and help me. And the irony of that is if you can shift your focus and you actually treat the training that way, a lot of times people end up getting surprised and see strength gains or actually feel better or look better following that because now you're truly listening to your body and modifying your training to what's going on in your lifestyle. Yeah, I love, I love Mass 15 for basically the structure of it and having that as kind of like a baseline for your ability to go to the gym or also at your house if you have availability for that. But for me, really too, on top of that is just having things set up around my house.  Like before that boiling point, you know, I'm gonna have my pull-up bar in the doorway or I'm gonna have my TRX or I'm gonna have a heavy kettlebell. And just stress relief. And just stress relief. And just go through the exercise, the movement. Your muscles need that expression. And if you know that that's a way that it tampers down, it lowers that stress. Just having that kind of around the house and accessible and to what you're gonna find with that approach as well in compliment with MAPS-15 and the structure of it, it'll actually enhance you in terms of maintaining that lean muscle mass and what you already have. That's it, man. Any of our other programs, you're not gonna see good progress. You're not gonna feel good with what you said in terms of your sleep. And you're probably, you've got another eight months to a year of kind of this challenge. It'll get easier. The first three months are, man, that's always the hardest. And it starts to get easier. And then you can start to ramp it up a little bit. But in the meantime, that's it.  You know, we always say PTs are our worst enemies. And I think I'm in my own head, trying to get through all of this. But yeah, it's really helpful information.  And then once I get past that, maybe this is the program that I need. So I appreciate that. Justin, once you start to feel better from training appropriately right now, which again, could be as little as 15 minutes, 10 minutes a day. Once you start to feel better, it'll reinforce what we're saying. And you'll be like, okay, this is good. I feel good.  And the only reason why we can speak to this so well is because we're just as guilty, bro. Exactly. Yeah. We all went through it. We all thought we were different. We could go above and beyond. And then got hit in the face with reality. Make sure Doug will send that over to you. You don't have math 15 already, do you? I don't. You do now, my friend. Doug will send that over to you. Yeah. Congratulations on the baby. Yeah. All right, thanks, man. Yeah, it's great. It's been great. The two of them are great to have. So just fitting this into my life will be the perfect balance for me. So I appreciate you guys taking that time. You got it, man. Thank you, Justin. Yeah, all right. You know what's funny? When you look at the data on exercise, nobody talks about this. The most, if it's done right, the most profound effects are the stress relief, the mental positive effects, the antidepressant, and zeolitic effects. It's more profound than the other effects that exercise. And those are all profound. But those are the most. If you do it right. You don't even really talk about that. No, because everybody focuses on the body stuff. And then they miss out on that. So nobody uses exercise as the multi... It's like you have this amazing Swiss Army knife with 15 different top of the line tools. And you're only ever using the screwdriver. So you need to hammer something in, screwdriver. You need to do the screwdriver. You never pull out the other parts that are so effective at all these other things. That's what exercise is. It's not just for building muscle. It's not just for burning body fat. It is all these amazing things. Just pull out those other parts and use it that way and watch what happens. Yeah, I mean, I think he's gonna see actually really good results. So do I. That he can just relate to the same. And we all went through this.   And it's like, well, should I? I'm gonna make it work. Yeah. Nope. Look, if you love the show, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out all of our free fitness guides. You can find a lot on that page and they're all cost nothing. You can also find all of us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin. I'm at Mind Pump to Stefano. Adam is at Mind Pump Adam.