perfectly great reactions sometimes but the fact is when I was doing my getting familiar with his work back when we did the coverage of him I took the newest streams I think it was three or four examples of him playing videos while he got up from his seat so the fact is if it were seven good for three bad but the thing is he streams 12 hours a day every day then you stack up a huge amount of bad reactions you know what I mean easy to get your ammo it seemed like for him it wasn't a transformation it was the fact that Hasan wasn't uploading it on YouTube he was giving a shout out and trying to help his channel grow so he's like even if you don't transform it just helping me is fine which XUC is not doing right because I think that was the problem with the JXC thing rather than actually helping J out Hasan just clicked away he clicked away as soon as J started promoting the channel like oh no no no I can't have that bye bye and this was after having just what like 60-70% of that video wasn't even in the room at least yeah man that was a a long time ago referendum but hey it's a year and a half or something I think it might have been two years it's part of what kind of got this all kicked off again I mean that's the kind of stuff that still gets brought up that video is it's gonna be a mainstay for us I guess because this is the third time it's come back right well it's probably gonna come back well I get just a link in the YouTube description the problem isn't the reacting it's the re-uploading of my video with his face on the thumbnail and also and I don't DMC him because I don't want the Twitter drama mmm which by the way is something that's very real but a lot of people do not take seriously at all there are some people that think that's not a real thing I just find that remarkable that anybody could think like why wouldn't like a relatively small channel want to get into a big dramatic fight with a massive platform beef with a massive streamer yeah on social media like guys I think I think a lot of people either are like in a way we're sort of desensitized to it but it's still like a thing we have to think about and a lot of people can't really imagine what it's like to get dog piled by thousands of people on the internet it really sucks a lot of the time and people obviously want to avoid that people don't want to get into fights like people generally don't want to get into fights anyway there's a lot of stress and infamy all of us here probably had like a minor canceling event happen to us at least once right so a big pile of people come after you are like it's you know the first time it really sucks but you kind of get used to it if it keeps happening as callous that seems like you kind of get over it you know I'm more used to it now and desensitized to it you know the things I used to be afraid of I'm like it's a badge of honor now but you know not a lot of people obviously aren't in the space as we're in and they just want to make their videos and have a good time and you know totally fair and they don't want to get I mean like until it happens to you it's really tough to know what it feels like and I promise you especially the first couple times it really sucks yeah it does it does that's for sure I do know that my first conversation is that DMCA on YouTube has such a bad rap right even if you use it in a proper way there's going to be an assumption that you're just being slimy and so everyone's going to come after you yeah people view it as oh you removed content that this guy I liked made wow I was going to watch that you know yeah and then it's a bit hard to talk about because there's an assumption on either side that whatever your guy is doing is the right thing right like the creator who takes down a video because he views it as theft well he views it as theft but then the creator who has his video taken down he views as his rights as being infringed right so and then whoever you watch that's who the fans usually side with so people can be super tribalistic when it comes to defending you know their content creators and streamers and I don't expect the audience that XQC is developed to be the most intelligent cultured you know I don't imagine that there are any of the things that you should strive to be yes sure they're fine people he doesn't want the twitter drama wait why are you well hold on this guy says you stole a shit why are you denigrating that I think you should take this seriously that was such an easy fucking hot shot just being like hey take this seriously don't be a meaty because one is a paid actor what he's a white meat he's a paid actor he's a paid youtuber but a paid actor why did he say that why did he say that there's a conspiracy against me this attempt on my reputation has left me scarred Ethan has some great facial reactions throughout this he does he doesn't want the twitter drama wait why are you well hold on this guy says you stole a shit why are you denigrating that I think you should take this seriously well because one is a paid actor I think I mean that's a paid actor 100% wait what what are you saying oh it's a paid actor he's a paid actor yeah that is what it is okay well just assume for the sake of the conversation that he's not a paid actor why did you let that go Ethan do you think that he just said the paid actor line and then realized it was really stupid and now he's just like trying to not acknowledge it well hold on it's like a paid actor yeah so good faith I think this is a language thing this time because you could have like you know someone who is paid to do this okay paid actor he doesn't know the term for it in English when it's not an actor but still being paid to do something underhanded good faith draw it back to him saying that he was following him and that he could be a bias but like this is terrible language to use if you want to get that point across it immediately makes people think that Ethan actually found a man paid him and to pretend that this is all the truth when he's provably a person provably has to channel the react took place like all this stuff is absolutely stupid as fuck because of the image it puts in everyone's head but yeah if actually he was to lay it out as just he's someone that you set up to say all of this is way better yeah yeah it's the whole thing the channel all the subs all the videos before this it was it was all set up to catch XQC well the fact is wouldn't it be really funny if XQC doesn't even remember his reactions and so they actually did edit all of that and it's not even real XQC is like yeah I guess I did that I don't fucking remember whatever okay so the first guy you react right the first guy you send a message to sends you a paragraph that looks like the bible right and is stroking your ego out so you know what that's okay all bikes a bike and a bomb so what's really cool about this is that we can make that again Ethan just loving this I can't believe he's saying all this it's incredible something I should have with this person and make it 10 times better for our ecosystem right of how what I watch what I upload it if he had asked what he doesn't have to if he can use the DMC system and maybe there will be to the drum or not we usually never make we never make drama for DMC stuff but then I don't know what you're talking about dude why are you not responding to his accusation he says you're stealing his shit let me elaborate I don't know okay let me elaborate then he would be a data outlier a person who doesn't like it and we can either recurve that make it better and I will be damaging for every dollar that he had lost to me right and he had analytics to back up how much the video on YouTube cannibalized his or any sort of damaging data or stats behind it I would be more than happy to give him 10 times 10x whatever he'll reach out have you ever paid anybody 10x before so if you could tell 10x bit as he watched the stream that I was on so he already knew that this was something he was going to say he's already been like yeah that's great it's good that you do that have you ever done it he's trying to undercut it as soon as possible which again I didn't think Ethan would actually watch that stream but yeah but I would say that this is a little bit mean because this is it's a good thing that XCC has just said and if anything you want to encourage it right you don't want to be like well to be fair XCC said if you could produce analytics and that's kind of like that's the hard part how would you produce that evidence I mean we had a huge conversation about that you have to show that there'd be like a massive dip and if you don't show that you're going to say well fuck you well so part of this this is what I was actually going to say was that unless of course he's lying and so at that point it is kind of your job to try and weedle it out and you could do that by being like getting him to admit that yeah he's never going to pay anybody because they'll never be able to definitively prove that they've lost anything and that could be what his plan is has that ever happened how many times what ever it arises how many times does that happen I don't want to check with editor I'd assume not a lot of people do that oh okay so the amount really is what you're looking at then what XCC should have said is yeah most people are very happy with my reactions but those who aren't get compensated it just makes you sound pretty solid at that point instead of going oh so the amount of time that people actually take you up on that because what you're saying is I'm going to steal your stuff and I don't care if you have a problem with it you can come talk to me like that's not that's not your right shouldn't you apologize to Vince Vince from Shenmue it's not his job to come ask you for reparations for you stealing from him don't you understand that that is a fair topic so what you're saying is that you went digging for victims well that is fair but Ethan kind of made the exact same point like 10 minutes ago no one's come to me that's the thing XCC's got to catch those things but he not as good as that I literally messaged one dude okay so nobody in your production room why don't you just apologize to Vince Vintage production room I absolutely will I didn't get anything I feel really bad you don't know why because all about the whole sphere of this everything around it is to make something good happen right and that matters to me a lot that's bullshit bro nice try you literally do it to enrich yourself you're a multi-millionaire and you steal content from small creators and you don't give a fuck about their rights or what they want and then your only justification is oh yeah you can come chase me down and get my attention so I can pay you for the shit I stole it's total bullshit bro that was a really good just slam dunk basically yeah can you imagine like if a corporation did this for a company we're just gonna steal anything that you have and if you manage to find out about it and then come after us then we'll be like oh okay well we'll give you some forgiveness money so uh because that actually happens quite a bit if you're like a professional photographer your stuff gets stolen all the time and you better hope that you see it because they'll give you money if you see it but otherwise you're fucked yeah every once in a while there's a story about I mean this has been happening with like call of duty skins and stuff where they just like steal people shit I was gonna mention that with this sort of slam dunking it's uh because actually he was about to get into the whole like infinitely everybody benefits he does the whole like rising tide benefits or lifts or boats or whatever but uh is Ethan's cut him off with the fundamental logic which is true it's just like how come your world view happens to benefit you the most of everyone seems a little bit convenient you're not creating anything big for anyone you're just taking attention and views for yourself and you don't give a fuck about the uh the consequences of that it's not your decision to make that for other people's property that uh Ethan's clearly following whatever plan he's got on that laptop and that we've come to like lay out what what he does, how wrong it is, what his feelings on it are in total the whole asking forgiveness instead of permission and then once all the major points were laid out and the lack of permission and how much he doesn't care he just did the speech which I believe possibly was written down because he kept looking back on the screen it was, yeah it's like at this point he's pretty much done everything he needs to do now so this is destroyed most people's perception if it was ever positive anyway you sound like um you sound like a Robin Hood or something are you like some sort of hero or something like that wow fantastic well I think it was, I think I would have gone for him probably if I was excuse you on the big impassioned speech I would have ostivied written it down I would have called him Robin Hood feels like a weird you're absolutely right if you had called out that he wrote it down what are you a hero? it would work really well for like how set up this all is and you can make appeals to the fact that he had like this has all been railroaded but yeah by saying like what are you some kind of hero Ethan could just be like well thanks I guess I don't know not really but sure if you feel that way because it seems like the road the road that XQC had to go down was to say that yeah okay I do take this stuff but you know what here's some numbers and figures showing that the people whose videos that I watch actually benefit from it in some material sense because there are examples of that of people actually blowing up after having their stuff reacted to that should have been his argument this whole time if you said and if you are in XQC's position you need to be like alright guys we've got to find this list of people who blew up because of this and I need to have this on me at all times and maybe memorize it and statements from them being like that's the greatest thing that ever happened to me and I hope he does it for more people in the future if you had lines like that it would help but they haven't fished for them and you know we all know the reason why XQC doesn't care if it blows up your channel or not he hopes it does I guess it's better than not especially because it'll help his reputation overall but he doesn't give a shit as long as it benefits him he's only happy because he can use it as a potential defense for his own behavior only reason he cares and if he said yes my worldview of trying to benefit everybody really does highly benefit me but I don't think the drawbacks are enough to say that it's an overall negative I still think it's an overall positive and you know if you were that honest about it you might be able to get some way you do a lot of that I mean I guess if he wants to go down the philosophy route which he's definitely capable of doing he could say I was like well in a way we all sort of believe you know ideologies and things that we can do that do benefit us it just benefits other people as well so that's not really like a big deal he's just very specifically benefits him in a very great way at the expense of other people so that's I think what you're describing is like something that everyone does all the time right so like let's say you own a business you own a little shop you decide to hire someone are you doing it out of the good of your heart you need their labor to help you out but you're still going to help them by giving them a job right so there's this idea I do things for a variety of reasons and if it wasn't beneficial to me or anybody else I wouldn't do them and I have empathy and I realize if it helps me then this thing might help other people as well I think it's very easy without an eloquence I don't think he has it's very easy to bite the self-interest bullet as long as you can say yes of course I'm self-interested we're all self-interested other people are also helping yeah there's ways to do this you're just not doing it what is it egoistic or egocentric altruism what's the terminology sounds American I mean is that what it in a way that is an American term for what you're talking about I'm just saying go for some kind of broader egoism George Washington Carver he invented the philosopher altruism if he can present it in any way that is more than just pure kind of dumb self-interest that would help him in defense you take the high road on that one you have done that you do that okay fine I did it you know what I mean it's like so stupid what does it because you can't use me as an example for your own thing you keep saying that you're doing it you're doing it the mates are coming here I don't know why you keep saying that let me send one DM I'm going to send one message and I he will he's really he's really playing into the whole like this guy you got to say all this stuff it just happens to work it all out that way it's like actually you got to come up with a better point that one sucks full response right now give me a minute for it Tim you're making fun of this message I got from which was a genuine he was expressing himself genuinely and he was disturbed by the way he uses content can I ask you another question I will take it out right now what it's like a machine gun this ecosystem doesn't work for you let me ask you a question this is the video and you do this all the time you'll agree this is the slam dunk this is a tough one to escape from this does not vote well for the taste test why vote well no no no no I'm saying that he's going to ask him why the context for the audience if you don't understand what you're looking at here the original video has a thumbnail and a title and then what these reactors do including his son he did it all the time too they just take the same thumbnail put their own face on it and take the name because it helps feed themselves into the algorithm for the video itself the original video yeah now you might be like they don't know that's why they're doing it why the fuck else would they be doing it absolutely is why they do it like most of the time search terms in the title of course is going to muddy the waters yep that's not even a good reaction face no yeah you're right he's just getting there he's like he stole six airplanes he's like no bro what a chat he stole six airplanes I just want to steal six airplanes we'll have to watch the video but do you want to watch the action I could watch the xbox video yeah maybe he was just winging it I'm sure it comes up second on the touch oh yeah that's pretty good rags so someone in the chat says at least it's not a soy wojak no that's the preferable face to just disinterest what is this one what is it this one is like I said I feel like the sound the sound should be like like that's the sound that's invoked by this picture he I'm watching the little puppet dinosaur break out of its egg it used to you used the exact title and the exact thumbnail the only reason for anybody to do that is to confuse search and discovery and cannibalize views from the original that is the only reason to do that do you have any sense to back that up because I had the same for the opposite do you have the opposite do you have the opposite so this is the thing what SCC is saying is that you'd need statistics to prove that's what's happening but Ethan's just talking about motive what are you trying to do not what the result is the thumbnail and the title don't you see that users will be confused let me think on anything don't you think so my youtube channel does not grow well that's because you just post a ton of shit there no you don't put any effort into it okay and why did he let him change the topic he gotta stay on the thumbnail I think they do stay on it though wait why do you think that is because you don't give a fuck okay clearly gotcha so these are cut-downs for the people that we call the youtube frogs that are just watching my shit why are they called youtube frogs Pepe's don't sully the good name of frogs Pepe notes are so thorough and used that the viewers have now become frogs so SCC's youtube channel has 2.31 million subscribers well the thing is when he says it's not growing it still probably is it's probably still growing it's just the number is lower the growth you see is almost all exclusively twitch who also like youtube and then people who manage to enter into the algorithm thanks to the fact that they're like who the fuck is this guy reacting to a video I wanted to see anyway I guess I'll watch him react to it those people exist I don't know how many there are that's where the stats come in that's the whole reason they do the thumbnail tile thing you don't get that right no you haven't proven that you keep saying that but it doesn't mean anything okay then show me proof you asked for permission we got it you need to show me proof dude you're absurd the thumbnail I just put in the score it's like from one day ago and I've seen the same thumbnail from the actual video I'm pretty sure oh yeah he's still going obviously the they're all still going yeah I know I just saw it while I was looking at the subscriber number nothing has been changed nothing has changed why is it you think it's crazy the fact that you're using the same title and the same thumbnail is so parasitic it's so shady you are only doing that to siphon off views and confuse people they go sit she stayed on it there's no other reason for that why would you use the same exact title explain that to me so are you more upset about the title or about the kind of the video itself it's all together it's all on the pile since all that legality you would understand that intention is one of the hardest things to prove out there I don't think he's ever mentioned legality really at all that's a fucking awful thing when Ethan is like I can tell it's a bad intention your response needs to be no no no it's this good intention and now let me convince you that it's the good intention your response should be you can't prove it why would you say that did you push the old lady she's dead now it's like you don't know you can't prove it what would you say that you didn't say no about philosophy we already moved past legality you don't care about fair use we can kind of like do just answer the question Felix why did you do that why did you give it the same exact title and thumbnail just answer that because I wanted to why did you want to why did you want to exactly yes why did you want to because the thumbnail is good and it gives the viewer what they want which is the original he failed so bad on that that might be his biggest blunder so far the Ethan was like you're doing this because it's effective why did you do it because it's effective why because he said I want to I want to have a shit answer basically saying oh yeah I'm doing this so I get the most amount of people to see it and watch my content because that's beneficial to me weird it's pretty much over he's got him now because I feel like that's the definitive evidence that as you see does not care about anybody but himself video they want the original video okay so okay so I'll tell you since you don't like questions I'm just gonna give you a fact then right people that don't watch react content do not get served react content if somebody wants to watch us react it the way that's my word it's a good question Ethan said who gives a fuck look at that face again look at me well I thought it being cannibalistic was a problem with you you're gonna try to say that the google algorithm is somehow running deep for you so that's crazy the google algorithm is running deep so so you said it's cannibalistic I give you a hint on why it's not it's the intention okay so now it's it if you want to just keep going back and forth and say not there, not there, not there and that's the thing I don't know if actually see understands it and is trying to avoid it but like actually pointing out your intention to siphon off views is the worst like that's the biggest hit Ethan could get on you now it doesn't matter what your results are you only want to benefit mm-hmm no okay and if you added 20 because this is the thing, sqc could have said so we match the title and thumbnail often times in order to let people easily find the original video it really helps with discovery you could have made that argument I mean you could say that it's not good you can be like I'm almost certain that's what leads statistically to benefits we haven't been proven otherwise well okay here's the question does Felix have some level of moral integrity to not directly lie or is he just too lazy to create a lie in the first place what I just said I'm pretty sure he believes he believes that they benefit and if ever they didn't he like he said he thinks that the fucking person that Ethan's god as an example is lying that he's doing this for the clout he genuinely believes that they do benefit but he doesn't care if they benefit no but I mean like if he gave the like the rational you gave for why it's the same thumbnail title like no one would believe that except for maybe you know his fame but surely you agree it's better than saying I did it because I did it because I did it no right so that's what my question is is he too lazy to construct a lie or a rationale or does he have some like like moral fiber where he's like well I'm gonna do shitty stuff but I won't lie about it I have a feeling it's that he knows that he does it to siphon the views to get into the additional algorithms I feel like he does know that and that that's why that's happening right so yeah he couldn't come up with a lie and he was just like fuck it yeah I do it cause I want to like whatever 20 seconds of commentary to his video and you use the same title and the same thumbnail you don't see any problem with that okay there it is so it seems like you don't really need to say it seems that you don't care about it seems you don't not just care about the law it seems like you don't care about people's artistic creative property at all it seems that you don't have any respect for property at all and it seems like nobody to my knowledge has a problem and my video is being up for now but you're like a prolific thief you could say oh I found one example of you doing this back in whatever year you're prolific thief dude you do this every day multiple times a day on your youtube channel who does this on by the way you just say anything gotcha so I will go to somebody's house and say take something and he doesn't care right he generally doesn't and never reached out and you go out there and you go and seek the victims out right and you failed to establish a pattern of them being cannibalized the way that you think this is just one this is getting trapped to follow and I think Ethan's done his job at this point he feels so now we're looking for an exit from his POV that's enough isn't it okay in that case I put the burden of proof on you as well then so yeah permission yes because I think I don't need permission to transform content dude true okay so there's four of us you guys see all of them if you have proof you ask permission to any of those you win by a landslide I don't know it's a little tough to follow this I think XQC think I guess XQC doesn't understand that fair use literally says you don't need to have permission from the copyright holder it literally says that in section I think it's 106 of the United States copyright law I think his problem is that he is just latching on so that anything that comes to mind there's no clear pattern to his arguments whereas there was a much clearer pattern so Ethan's arguments yes yeah so when I think like an hour ago or something that he was just deer in the headlights and on the back foot the whole time I think this is when it really comes out that he's just been jumping from whatever comes into his head to whatever comes into his head with no no actual long term plan for this conversation while Ethan had points set up proven knock him down set up point him down he's been nailing it well as you said obviously Ethan came into this with a structured plan of attack that he's been following Ethan's had complete control of this entire conversation he's been directing the flow of it at every point and every time XQC tries to drag it somewhere else Ethan will just ignore it and go back to whatever he's trying to say and XQC keeps falling into the question again Ethan lies out these traps he falls into them because I mean it's pretty obvious that Ethan's goal was not to change XQC's mind it was to win it was to win the thing is that XQC wanted to win too but his strategy was oh I'm gonna make him mould I think it's like home for the best it was just systematic yeah exactly he was really confident that he would win even though he didn't have any like victory parameter we got insight into what Ethan thinks of him in that sort of little speech he gave right which was the your piece of shit that's just trying to benefit off of everyone else's work that's all you are well he did have a victim parameter it was to get a big own right yeah but what what does that even mean you know yeah I think like yeah I think maybe XQC was a bit too internet brain for this you know it kind of reminds me of some of the Vosh debates that I've seen I'm sure you guys have watched some or either on the show or not on the show but like Vosh debates where he just thinks he can be carried through the conversation by Charisma while he's got absolutely no prep on the subject yeah that's his meme right he doesn't research ever yeah you know what another name for water is aqua aqua yeah that was that was classic he talked to the the professor of philosophy that was the aqua conversation and then he talked to what if alt hissed about history with no prep and he's like a history guy and he just got like completely shellacked it was it was wild but yeah I think XQC is kind of doing the same thing where he thinks that like he is you know he's hard to understand yes but he's very charismatic he's popular for a reason he definitely like he's entertaining so he thinks that he can just kind of skate by on style which is not going to work maybe it's a massive overvaluing of your traits and attributes I've never seen his content I've always seen him do these debates and he's so bad in them XQC or Ethan XQC well I mean you saw his content you saw him watching the Leminar that was great that's true I mean like when he first started off he was a professional overwatch player right and there was obviously value in seeing someone play a game at a high level of skill yeah he still plays it and apparently he's very good at it yeah okay I think probably that plus his unique personality is what got him to where he is now what is his unique personality hold on wait a minute hold on I'm trying to be nice here that's okay but yeah like that skill plus his personality probably got him where he is but that doesn't give you anything in the debate arena yeah but so just stick to that just stick to doing video games like don't move out of that if that's all you can do I mean that's fine to be very really think that XQC thought he had this like he was like this he I think at some point to Ethan as being like a complete idiot loser like this will be fine I was surprised when Ethan brought out the clips I was like holy fuck he's doomed before he kind of talked to you about this has he debated other people on the subject or any subject like does he have a reason to think that he would like do well in this conversation unfortunately Sitch I feel like it's like most people feel like they'll do fine if they think they're right on the subject they'll just be like yeah I got this and this thing Ethan Klein's reputation it's like everyone thinks he's a complete loser idiot nonsense that can't do anything right so this will be simple and he's gonna get a big own I'm wondering like cause you you were pretty nice to him in the conversation and I'm wondering if that set him up to think he did well in the conversation even though you were like he didn't understand that Mahler just was kind of not like polite about it but just like clear and concise and polite but direct and maybe cause like Destiny and Abba kind of ran interference and it like gave him the false sense well what they said they'd be fine would be about little chattels and stuff yeah yeah I don't know Abba with the chat simply existing on the screen would make it transformative right Abba with the bad takes I can't believe that we had to rely on Carontos to be the voice of reason oh god he is funny he is really funny he's really insane I didn't know what was gonna fucking happen I love how insane he is I love that Carontos is shockingly unfunny, stupid simple minded I have no fucking clue how he has gotten in with Destiny the way he has he is stupid and simple minded but I will say he is funny it's kind of like the meme XQC is too like Mahler is like Thor he's like I can't defeat you but he can and it's like Carontos coming in it's like screaming one of the videos that there's four of them if you have if you have proof you ask permission to any of those you win by a landslide why would I need proof to transform a video the only one is me canon because he's my buddy there's obviously ones were like it's obvious were your buddies I actually did ask me canon you understand that on Twitch too there's people that everyone's friends with but this guy you I mean Vince so you're making assumptions about me but we're not making assumptions not an assumption I have a literal fucking message from the guy you stole from it's not an assumption it's literally a fact okay so the whole reason why this debate was in the first place is that people were finding victims that didn't exist it was like how is there a problem for people people couldn't still exist oh my god okay so you found a person who doesn't like it yes and there's multiple ways out actually he even specifically named you as the problem he said the other people actually clouded me up with XQC completely stole my shit added no valuable commentary and then stole my views that's specifically what he said actually so there's a problem and instead of reaching out is there a skeleton hanging off of a ceiling there is it's okay I don't think Frank was here when we talked about it though oh okay you're also afraid for anything yes that is a skeleton hanging from the top a beautiful skeleton that took his own life I don't know I gotta live in his room oh god it's his former maid that you couldn't hide in time for the stream he hanged herself I would rather kill myself and clean up this big mess do you think she plugged all the giraffe to set the rope yeah it's just happening in the background of his stream he's reacting to some fucking like goofy cloud video and then someone hanging themselves in the background he performed he waited for you to the savior of the earth to come in and just robin it the guy that guy got your rope why why why be robin it why be robin it when you can be prince john do you really not understand the concept that small creators wouldn't want to the easy I think Ethan should go the direction of like do you not care about people like is that not yeah you criticizing me for caring about other people because like ex-qc might be the kind of person who would actually say like no I don't like he would you might try and chat yes at some of the yes yeah I mean it doesn't sound it sounds bad when ex-qc is like making lines you'd expect a captain planet villain to be like oh here comes the savior of the earth care about the animals I'm so glad you said that because I was thinking of captain planet as well do you know what's the worst thing in the world kindness kindness is horrible we have to stop fair I'll tell you what's fair with ex-qc one of the biggest with the craziest fan base in the world like is that really a foreign idea to you that they wouldn't want to deal with this power dynamic you would crush them if you said your fans would harass them into oblivion that's too foreign for you to understand so this guy four in a case of shrapers big usey two videos small creators that's about to fucking die from something Ethan is here to save the day this person will now be able to import some food into the ice well I'm saying because if you make a if you draw a picture on who this person is and say small creator like struggling and whatnot I'm saving him and you're just you are misrepresenting so he doesn't matter oh yeah he doesn't matter but not in the capacity that you're trying to paint which is what I don't understand what you're saying a small struggling creator somebody please help this person before he goes out of business that well no I didn't say any of all Ethan's out of all of that Ethan said small yeah which is probably not the best word but you could argue it but you could argue it and often I get a hundred million dollar deal from kick anytime soon live audience of 50,000 people would absolutely swamp any live audience of 400k channels going to be able to dig up and just because you have a lot of subs that doesn't mean you're brolin and doe exactly well that you did you you did you just actually quite literally did not say that you said small creator that's enough let no it's not saying small does not mean he said that he's like fucking live in paycheck to paycheck he's about to die that's like one of the things that XC was adding well they think I was having a fair well it's like this weird Robin Hood thing it's like why are we on this it's upfront about his sub count I looked at it but anyway let's see I was just wrong I was just mega wrong move on you have been this entire time it's fine so yeah I'm sure you're familiar with this thread because he actually gave you permission to perform this analysis internet arch archanist archanist archivist he said he said I let XQC repost a reaction to see the impact it had okay and the analysis is basically the video witnessed an 87% decrease in impressions on the day of the re-upload okay and the video also witnessed a 52% decrease in obviously the problem with this being we need that we need to control the comparison well in this case you could easily make the argument of yeah but the reason why the views are lower is because it's just how it works typically for YouTube videos well you could also argue you would have lost more if not for my videos possibly you could that's why more would be you need more data this isn't enough another thing that bothers me about this example is the internet anarchist had a bunch of stipulations that don't apply to the normal like you can't use the same thumbnail and tile which is like well that isn't the point that okay viewers there's xqc equipped to like make these arguments because he could be up low doesn't that graph help him because if you look at it it's like sloping down and then it kind of it slightly goes up a little bit and then it's the truth is it's useless it could tell you it could be anything that could be higher or lower or the same it could have been the way that you interpret it can go kind of wild it's just not enough information there's so many variables so I mean of the evidence that I've seen then it actually shows that it has either a negligible or potentially even a negative effect on the original video and actually he even made you change the title and the thumbnail so why do you think he asked you to do that that was a great question to be honest with you why do you think he made you do that excuse me he said don't use the same thumbnail and title why do you think he asked you that because as a creator of the IP that you'd like to fucking say because you siphon views from people dude it's so fucking obvious why you do it you ask a question and you answer for me you can have a monologue if you want to just mute me and just go on a fucking rant but if you want to ask me a question you have to answer here's the answer you can choose the IP he wants to be different and he wants some changes and he spoke to us so instead of crying and being a little bitch it seems like that's cat optics 101 he's just very much missed out on it this isn't an answer why did he ask you and it's saying well he has the capacity to ask me to change it he wasn't a little bitch like the rest of him as Ethan just said like Vince being a little bitch Ryan is at it which by the way supports the whole thing Vince was saying in the DM saying like I don't want the fucking pressure and the stress of coming out against XTC because look what happened told me a little bitch you might have 400,000 subs but that doesn't mean you have a big Twitter presence that doesn't mean that you're used to this kind of attention there are plenty of creators who get really big but if you never have any sort of drama if you never have any controversy the first one is still the first one and you might not have the personality that mesh as well with being able to deal with that it's a big deal, it's not something that should be overstated this is crying and being a bitch is that what you're saying? that's all I said is this Twitter or what? I just wondering who you're talking about go ahead I mean we all fucking know who you were talking about it's pretty obvious but yeah you can pull the card I never used a name I didn't use a name everybody except this person who asked me you can't prove that so then like I was saying if I be getting a little bitch ass stop it oh you did it again if not a lot of positives and some of them can actually one of the stipulations has included a motivated call to action to subscribe to the original creator most do not do this all the ones that get complained about of course that was J's primary fucking issue apparently pissed everyone off was just credit and let the person promote their shit if you're going to take the whole video please didn't show any positive oh speaking of that we should probably say right now everyone should follow XQC and Ethan no call to action if it was only negative she would have asked us to take it down and would have done that no he left it up for the experiment and he said do not use any of my other videos without my permission he literally told you that so it's a social experiment at this point it's like an experiment Ethan I think he's to just word it slightly but just be like don't you think that's fucking fascinating that the one that's working with you has told you one of the rules is you cannot react to any of my videos yeah don't you think that's interesting XQC so now he's only letting it because it's an experiment now okay well I showed you yeah do you have proof in that positive effect no he didn't show us that again sure so explain how this is good he said I'll let you describe the video witness an 87% decrease in impressions on the day of the reupload so explain that dub to me do you in your position had a time machine you guys know what point he's going to make right you have to if you don't access the alternate universe where I didn't then you can't actually say with proof which is like gosh I mean true which is technically true answer the question we do not since we're going to do the whole answer for you you do not have a time machine it is impossible to know playing the fucking who added that that's because it's Ethan's live show they have that effect that's great it's brilliant yes I have a time machine that's an assumption you have no proof of course the point he's trying to make is you have no proof and he's cut him off ahead and said you have no proof so you use I've analytics so one data sets you have no data set and also you're the dude stealing content so the onus should be on you to prove the great benefit of it I find it a little bit and a little bit disappointing in the middle of analytics spewing words to your audience and mine about spewing words you you're spewing your words you can't be the word man if you just shut your mouth I mean me with my words if you were to use the descriptor spew of words would that apply more to Ethan or feelings definitely he's like he's like the water sprinklers for lawns when they're going back to their original depth and then that's what he's like he's just always on that mode I bet you could perfectly edit like the like the same cadence and rhythm of his speech one of his little machine gun spurts matches up perfectly with it it makes less sense that Ethan would reveal his time machine he wouldn't want to reveal the time machine it's a tactical thing when we're trying to prove that it quite literally doesn't help anybody you're muddying the waters on a reason could you stop please it's going to get really bad I don't want to do the whole insult because you're doing that it's just a statement of fact not an insult as we go forward you are fucking bald you're what? look at me say like fat he clearly has hair at least fat would be like accurate yes he's not bald the thing is everyone has been prepped on this we've all seen it in the previous chapter of the react was he calls everyone bald it just means you're mad I guess I don't know a lot of bald people wouldn't even consider it an insult I've been told that it's apparently like a twitch I'm not aware of we've gone over it before it started as bald mad and bald that makes sense and now he's taking it a step further and he just calls people bald that doesn't make any sense I like how it's a regression but also a progression you remember the variable that made it funny which was the angry and bald just bald that's not a joke that's just is it it's a description that is involving your hair-spinning and it's great which means that you're old as fuck the man who's is like he's just like what the fuck am I dealing with I guess we're done with the debate what is this creature saying it's funny as well because Ethan's hairline that's incredibly strong pretty good that's not bad is Ethan like 39 or 40? a lot of people are 38 so it's not bad a lot of people at this age would have a strong hairline that goes further back than this or at least back on the sides that's pretty good that's like your Tim Pools of the world right like wow Tim Pools is he's in his 30s right but he's younger he's younger well it's just some people get it like yeah of course it's getting bald in their 20s for the record there's nothing wrong with being bald there's nothing wrong with being bald there's no moral failing no it doesn't make you a less it's terrible listen to the mean streamer here it doesn't make you a worse person but I knew one kid who started going bald at 17 and that was a rough fucking high school of course of course take it off well remember I think George Collin had the joke that you shouldn't shave your hair if you're balding just own it yeah but that's bad advice oh my god oh my god George Collin is wrong yeah you should only take good advice not the bad advice actually I think the worst that I've heard is that he's going to do a guy in college and he completely fine had a hair, shaved it off he went around bald for like six years he's like I'm going to grow it out again he grows it out, no hair oh full castanza and I was like oh dude I'm sorry well it's kind of better though because he kind of primed everyone that he just looks bald for six years I've got bald relatives and they just there's a bulb for a while he was depressed he was like I wasted all my hair that's the pretty good treatment that you can get there right if you're, I get ads for like the companies that we'll talk about like yeah man my confidence was back Rogaine and then like Hummerboard is cool because there's a prominent one in Australia you get ads for it a lot where they do like the treatment to make people's hair grow back so it seems like there's fairly effective strategies right didn't Trump get something done at one point because his hair looks like he can get transplants like homeover or something yeah that was actually pubic hair and then Trump transplanted it all it's Pringies bulb, I'm the opposite of bulb my hair grows fast and it's a big thick afro wow you think that's a hood on Pringies head? no the best is Elon Musk looks really good for what he used to be that was a transplant right I don't know is it like in Simpsons when the hair comes alive and it's like you and your brain and stuff be careful there's a few things there you like get somebody else's hair transplanted in and then you adopt their personality right classic good episode the premise is faulty my friend I have a beautiful hairline so this is the thing people play this out it's actually possibly the worst thing you could target Ethan Clyde for because there's a lot of physical things people make fun of him for and that he takes on the chin and makes fun of himself for look at his face he's so happy you're getting for his hair it's like his favourite part of himself the one thing that isn't he clearly has hair he has hair he has it there on his head it's like if you said Chris Hemsworth you're fat and he's just kind of looking at you it's just not true is he like figuratively or I'm surely not literally all those in the literal matter of fact it's a frame of mind as you see if he was able to explain it it would be like you think bold what your soul is bold your soul is bold is this one for you or not I'm having trouble with the premise it has a striking resemblance to you trying to argue other points it literally has no premise at all you're just throwing insults for this go ahead I'm going to be quiet wait hold on a second it didn't actually just said you're just throwing insults but he just threw the worst insult that's why he threw it he felt he was being insulted so he was like I'm coming for your boldness now oh shit if you're not physically bold you're morally bold and that's what matters you're spiritually bold you're bold and hot bold and hard you're bold in the beginning I don't know if you've done any statistical analysis in the past I don't know if you've had a tax pass do you have any statistics or not go ahead do you have any statistics or not go ahead wait wait did you do that did they do that they did that it's hailline cab that's not really good at it that's not the point that's why he pays that's the great thing when you have a producing crew they can do shit like this on the fly they can make up some good jokes what can you say he's just not bold excuse me try it something else that looks like a natural this is the meme with the crow on the stand up stage look at his card it's a one joke that's what this is that's what's happening if you check eFab I think it's in there if you grab it we can put it on the screen let me scroll up and grab it apparently he's about to say something that kind of makes sense I'm curious I'll give you a point right now but the problem is of course he'd sunk himself when he went after being bold I'm just picturing now though it's a dark room and it's like 2am and Ethan's at home and like inconsolable his wife goes to bed and he slowly removes his wig and he actually I gotta scroll through all these fucking golden wine mass memes any statistical analysis in the past do you have any experience with statistics or not go ahead do you have any experience with statistics or not go ahead just make your point go ahead just make your point what does it matter the curve of a video that looks like a natural curve you can see it's already going down before I watch it and it keeps going down at a certain rate past it do you have any proof or any indicators that the video would have performed poorly or better after the reaction wow just to actually get the point that was an argument and it's not a bad one either even though again it's like what is to be done when you can never directly compare one video to how it would have performed in an alternate timeline the best you can do is like for like yeah probably the best move here and while I wouldn't normally do this I think this might be a time to appeal to intuition reasonably we can probably assume that you're really hurting the channel I think it's a fair I think like the intuition is fair somebody's watched the video more or less exactly as it existed before what incentive do they have to go rewatch that video on that other person's channel they've already gotten everything they could have out of it he's already killed him he got him on motive he did get him on motive that's true this kind of goes into the question this kind of goes into the question I think you asked I remember when we were on a conversation with him all about the if an alien steals your work and then takes it to a different galaxy and profits off it is that make it wrong? it still kind of sucks even if you're not directly harmed by it even if no one is going to watch this original video still kind of shitty part of the reality I tried to reply was if all the aliens on that planet loved his work and then found that out which by the way there's a future armor episode where this fucking happens it's going to a planet where all of those creatures are actually real and she just watches them for a day and writes down all the things that happen kind of funny how that's exactly reflective when people find out she's a fraud obviously it's like you're not a good writer because intuitively it feels wrong even if they're not being harmed by it intuitively it feels like you're stealing or doing something wrong normally that part of what some of us would call soul would be like this isn't like this is something not right here I mean if your soul is bald maybe you feel that way it's a full head of hair you understand isn't that something they say like my soul is laid bare my fully-haired soul my soul is laid bald my soul is laid bald I lay my soul oh no yeah so people will go after XTC like you can't call Ethan bold or your hairline is much worse than his it's like oh shit uh oh you've lost you had one thing he was shitty in his 20s as well he was younger yeah he was 28 or something XTC but also like that's why he has the long hair that's framing his face which is not a bad idea it's just don't make fun of people from being bolding when it seems like you're on a off-the-track to getting don't make fun of people from being bold in general yeah I would never tell a murderer to yellow grave use a deep grave you know so Fringy's law is certain circumstances you can make fun of someone who's bald you can't do it here or here uh no I'd say that generally you should do it but if you're gone you're not bald if you're going to an insure you are not bald yeah it's the base of the basic law if you are insulting someone for them being bald do not be bald you might have heard the old expression those the classic age-old expression those in grass huts should not throw spears he who is not bald can cast the first bald I was literally a joke in community I forgot about that he's like what was the actor's name who played uh oh Chevy Chase he calls him bald and he just says you're bald and then Chevy Chase like rages out take that back so obviously listen listen guys guys we gotta stop all this harassment going on the stream oh my god now that you've done that rags gonna be like I'm gonna find a better one yeah there's no need to come to the dark side here oh nice oh you got you already you got fucked up yeah you're not you're not pouring hair jokes are you oh my god any data that we do have which is of course just one definitely proves that if it did have an effect it's negative or negligible and as the guy who is I mean right I mean you certainly can't say that this helped the video so are you actually arguing that a 87% decrease helped the video and excuse me that's really what you're arguing to me right now that's also good so we're gonna go ahead and have the conclusion that you did hold on a second hold on let's go back just a little bit can we go back like five seconds or something no it's five oh you want fair enough I just want to get a look at this yeah we're not paying for them you could go back more if you want yeah go back to the beginning if you want all the way so it seems like if you want to actually look at numbers here it seems like the rate of decline slowed after the reaction right so you could make the argument that excuse me might have given him a little bit of a boost he gave him a tiny tiny tiny help yeah arguably but also the problem is it might have happened anyway and then when he says a 87.87 decrease in impressions like it's it's the comparison of what it would have been if not for that like that number all this shit is so irrelevant until we have a comparison yeah no I mean this guy's analysis is wrong and stupid but Ethan can point to it and say look at the graph look at the graph Felix can just go yeah look at the graph I win like no I win look at this graph so like there's there's definitely graphs out there of like a video that's reacted to today there are there are graphs out there there are giraffes listen guys that's not split hairs here okay that's not split hairs oh my goodness gracious so there are many graphs out there a video got reacted to like a month after it came out and then there was like a viewership spike and a sub-spike and then it settles back down to like the normal background views of before I don't think you can make a claim that that hurt them you know because after a few weeks videos just kind of unless they're like certain types of content that are just always booming most videos on YouTube just kind of have the same amount of just background views constantly right well I think they shouldn't have gone this direction anyway they should have focused on the fact that he does the same tiles and thumbnails to get into the algorithm to siphon views it's simple it's over at that point that's what your goal is and he's trying to critique him morally that's it you don't need to bring up all this because this is just confusing and if anything I'm willing to concede that it could very well have benefited this person we really don't know this is why last time I was on Moller I said the numbers conversation actually isn't that interesting because it's just math right you can just perfect information you can math out oh did you actually gain or lose from it oh you gained okay it was good for you you lost it was bad for you but that's not a moral conversation because the moral conversation is you know how do you feel about what happened to them taking it you know did you get consent these are these are conversations you can't mathematically kind of suss out well and it's worth mentioning as well like I said this one even feels more irrelevant because of the stipulations which were like make sure to promote the channel and the video make sure to not have the same tile and thumbnail make you know it's just like well then that just doesn't help what you should be emphasizing is that like if he wants to make the argument with these stats is that these stats are the optimal this is the optimal situation best-case scenario essentially exactly you're most likely to get something from it compared to the typical kind of reaction what's the average you know reaction do you think on average it helps instead of saying well it can logically help you know arguing that if 87% decrease help the video excuse me that's really what you're arguing to me right now that's awesome dude so we're going to go ahead and have the conclusion that you did not have a I understand you're still when you fumble the pronunciation it kind of ruins the dunk I feel like half of his communication problems would be solved if he just slowed down yeah you can get a speech therapist you need one which you know I mean I'm assuming he has some actual disorder make fun of someone that has a disorder that's called being friendly I mean that is true if he does I think that speech therapy can often help with these kinds of problems I mean what was the king's speech all about if not perseverance and dedication to speaking and then you become good at speaking everyone's telling me that he's out as bold also true you know I think that it's really odd that XQC is calling Ethan bald when he's the one who needs to pay you worked on that probably for a little while right?  He's like, yeah, and I do it too. This is sounds good.  Oh, yeah, this is a side of course. It's like, yeah, did you forget? Like the beginning of his beginning of that rant was it's the Republicans that do what about ism and then he ends up saying I also do the water Because it sounds good Reason react content pretty dope shit that he hates it when I see does it yeah He that so I don't know if you guys recognize it or understand it he this ultimately comes down to I don't like the way You're reacting which is why I don't like this argument Which is why I was trying to tell Ethan when we were having that conversation together That like then you're basically policing someone else's reacts, which is not the best argument to make against it That never happened we watched the whole thing he never like tried to Push back that hard on Ethan Ethan was grilling him like crazy, and he would remember he was timid and scared It's just funny to watch him now be like yeah, I was trying to tell Ethan this but you know Ethan's argument is not good because it always Ethan watched the stream and so now Ethan wants to poke at Hassan at this You don't react hard enough because at the end of the day there are no clear-cut guidelines no clear-cut boundaries on appeal to the blue Everyone's in the blue. It's great like what to do. No like standardized best practices and Standardized best practice you can't try to like suss one out for yourself.  I think I circumvented that pretty good. Sorry to interrupt you. I'm not Yeah, it will always evolve into you're not reacting hard enough Obviously, there are It is a fair point it is a fair point to say that you are not reacting in a way Well, ultimately it is you were not transforming this content. Yeah, people say you're not reacting hard enough I mean, you're not transforming this content. We can just be honest. What is the point of streamers going? Oh react hard It's like it's deflection. That's all you're trying to do Yeah, it is deflection, but you hold them to it and you say yeah on ironically react harder.  Yep, exactly Present aren't established, but like most people Most people understand are bad However, especially if you're doing like long-form content Especially if you're doing live streamed content without pre-production like you do point please Because you have your own version of that as well as like the members only broadcast there will always be Lulls and and moments of like dead air or even it's your job to try and minimize those as much as possible Yeah, but for you guys and Everyone even the highest end of transformative content. They'll have a time where it's not a hundred billion percent Transformative, don't you know You know, it's like all the same really kind of yeah, I think I mean it would be convenient if that was the case for Certainly be helpful for this Thing up, but that's also live reaction here. I'm talking and I made it clear. I'm talking specifically About his YouTube channel. I wouldn't make this claim. Okay. Well, that that that's something I made clear at the beginning. So I So, okay, so we're talking about his YouTube channel Now I would never claim that about streaming because I agree that streaming is too much of a gray area Yeah, and I don't think it's ever even not gray if you just go principally down. It's easy Yeah, if you hold yourself to a standard, you have a really clear line Intested so there's not really any precedent in that regard So in the context of talking about his YouTube channel, I have to disagree that it's not about react harder There is clearly zones There's like the funny thing is that it is about react harder if there are clearly yeah, but I get what he said Yeah, S tier zones which would be for example, I'll just Pretty much we're s-plus action videos highly I ain't in that stingy s-class Devil may cry smoke and sexy style Brew Right, yeah, and then there's a massive gray zone massive gray zone Yeah, would prop which this podcast would probably even fall in which would be like high high high up in the gray zone I don't think so well regardless I'm just trying to show you what I'm well like if you showed the best reactor and the worst You can clearly tell there's a massive amount of difference and even the most dim-witted moron can Imagine in their head, you know the differences in between there of how much you react and what you say All right, this is really not totally do they all know. Yeah, they all know them acting like oh rector I don't know exactly what that means.  You know exactly what that means Performative stupidity Well, and that's Ethan's trying to make it as simple like building blocks Play-Doh level shit He's like really good completely transformative gray zone and then under the gray zone is clearly Where he's trying to get at is where XQC is Right, I mean I saw knows all those like he understands all this. He's just pretending like oh I don't understand what you're saying to be fair What is this on just say for the past like 10 million years? He was trying to explain that there's a gray zone It's a big old gray zone Exactly cut. Why is he wearing a bush Reagan 84 hot? It's funny. I'm funny. Okay, channeling Republican. What about is him? The Because it make well it doesn't matter fair use doesn't it doesn't oh, yeah Yeah, but I'm saying like the way I see it your highly edited sketch videos your sketch react videos are Those are S tier. Yeah, those are S tier this podcast would be like a little bit below it But it still is like We're we're cutting this live, but every single thing that we're looking at we already know what we're going to be looking I mean like it's we can have a discussion about it. Sure It's all debatable and that's the nature of fair use It's all up to a judge and jury to decide based on the merits of this one particular instance And so that's what I mean There's like a massive gray zone and I would include like Myself at the top of that gray zone and then like may potentially even sniper wolf at the bottom of the gray zone. Yeah I've seen now dude. I've seen Ethan I wouldn't allow her in the gray zone. He knows the gray zone and also she's not the gray zone She's in the no the red zone on the bottom in the danger zone. Yeah, the danger zone Oh So hold on let's say the the black zone the very bottom, right? Whoa, there's zone within the black What color do you want to use Sitch? Well, it's the danger zone. We just said All right, all right, so anyway, yeah, and black means like if you're in the black you're on top, right? Here black and you associate negativity with it doesn't mean that you need to you know Okay, so I'm talking to the danger zone then yeah There's there's there's three tiers in there, okay So you have sniper wolf at the top who is just blatant But is still present and then reacting and then you have at the very bottom You have chair reacts where the person just walks away and that's the chair react to it, right? Mm-hmm, but there's this middle is there's a zone in the middle I don't guys I don't know if you guys have seen this but if you're like you ever see your parents You go home to visit your parents and they're scrolling on Facebook or something and they watch a video and the video is Like Steve Harvey reacts Have you ever seen these well?  Yeah, he can't explain that the tides go in yeah, I'd go to Bella Riley The best part was the fact that it cut to like, you know the wide shot and him getting up in silence I Can understand getting upset while like at the workplace. I don't understand why you don't think we know where tides come The reason why he got angry was because the thing on the teleprompter was vague, right?   Like no, it's not even like I had the gray zone. It's in the black. So yeah, that's what black. Wow. He did it, too So it would be The the unacceptable barrier would be like at the top of that barrier you have like someone who's a streamer who like Uploads a straight vaude rip and they're not even fully there. They're like barely reacting to it They're just like kind of letting the video play as a substitute For their chatter be entertained with no, I don't disagree with you on that the only the only element of the outside of the gray zone conversation that we could be having is that There even in that even in that situation, there is not enough data You had you pulled up? Vince's video or Vince's statement on it, but there's still not enough data on Yeah, this is like man, I'm gonna need you to do a little bit of planning with your words Whether or not that levels of just No, this is a movie Bob because at least no movie Bob is definitely different movie Bob is like reading It's incredible. Yeah, it's it's just dense with this just rambling. This is me That is Valuable or not, especially if like certain what do you mean? Is it displacing in the algorithm? Is it good for a mid-sized channel really matter?  We don't have the stats, but most people Do anything about it. Well as XQC Clearly exemplified by now attacking Vince on Twitter. I don't know if you saw this Can you pull that up?   Well, I don't want to pull that up I figured to help demonstrate what you were talking about Ethan. I do an XQC style paint Thing for you. So here's the Ethan is also podcast just about the top of the gray zone And sniper wolf is the bottom of the gray zone next you see is outside the bottom of the gray zone What do you think of that image? I probably should not be in the gray zone.  Do you think she's above or below XQC though? I think I might need to see more of sniper wolf, but I I think she's below That's tough to say probably about as tough as Yeah, so her time reacting compared to time stolen is is way better ratio than XQC's Out of the gray zone This is actually really good the thing about her that's possibly more damaging than XQC is that she directly just rips the Yeah, the tiktoks, right? So they just dwindle on tiktok forever not not getting anything and she's you know Someone does something funny or creative they put it up and she's like, thank you. That's mine And it's as simple as that meanwhile XQC a lot of the videos. He's taking a very very very popular anyway, like Lemino isn't gonna be destroyed by XQC uploading his react Actually, I've got a question now that I'm thinking about this because you have some tiktok accounts Where the tiktok accounts are they actually put together like produced content like little 30-second or like two-minute skits or something Right, then you have some tiktok accounts where it's just people talking about an idea or sharing their day or something, right? I do a tiktok react series But I only choose people who like people who just talk about their day so that they're fucking insane I don't I I do not choose people who Make like very produced Comedic content or if I do I've done it a couple times where they kind of sneaked in I've definitely linked back All right, do you think it's different between those two different types of tiktok content?  Yeah, yeah, and then here's just a sniper wolf down here That's just mean and then this is like dog This is like you're stealing content and it doesn't matter if it's good for people because he's literally Literally as leafy to he's okay. Can this kid literally ruined literally. I mean, how do you do that literally? Literally he's re-uploading videos. How many soundbites? Yeah, period like straight up Button that has him saying literally But I wouldn't be surprised if he mentioned it more digital, right? I guess a search bar thing and then they can hit whatever they want it with very little feedback. No, no, no That's not even applicable like the bit ex-Qc. Oh, yeah uploads videos of him Adding zero runtime or like two seconds runtime and all he says is that's crazy chat That is a re-upload you do you do realize that okay that conversation still turns into like I Agree with you, but even he's trying so hard to maintain his Stance of defending the ship, but he knows he can't do it in front of Ethan Oh, I agree with you that conversation is still like I don't like the way you're reacting and that can be expanded No, it doesn't This is crazy chat is not it's not additive. It's not critical. It literally doesn't transform.  It's not there. You cannot debate that.   I think that is what's happening currently with Vince so I'm What I was trying to say is if we're looking at fair use like completely the reality is That unless you are directly engaging in commentary on the video that you are currently watching The video that you're currently watching you can't even use it as a narrative tool in most circumstances I know this from my days working at the young Turks And I know this from what I technically do in violation of like the actual fair use laws We've been when I'm uploading my YouTube videos, right when I upload my regular YouTube videos of a news When I'm providing news analysis Unless I am directly engaging in media criticism if I'm using a news clip as a narrative piece That is still something that I'm technically supposed to license that's a change From what he said last time isn't it I thought he was under the the case of like all of news is fine because it's yeah We need it for the public sort of thing like I'm not going crazy right like that was something that he said last time Wasn't it I could have sworn that I can't remember But that does sound like something like I associate him with having that opinion and I wonder where it's from There is an exception for journalism and fair use as well There's a clause for journalists and news stuff you still can't use someone else's footage to like For example, I don't know exactly what you mean, but I'm gonna disagree with you You are talking to Hassan Okay, yeah, I can't let's say instead of me Introing my my video like Rudy Giuliani wanted to see some titties today and we're gonna take a look at that and then go directly into like I don't know the news article that I'm reading through instead of doing that if I played an ABC news broadcast That's like Rudy Giuliani was found You know court documents revealed that Rudy Giuliani was really interested in seeing some tits if I put that clip in there And I don't actually immediately commentate on that clip or criticize that clip. That's technically a violation of fair use You especially if you don't license it, but so I get again it depends on the whole the whole Context of the clip, but okay. Let's say it is so what? the reason why I'm saying that is because There is a lot more He's finding his point give him a sec He's just like okay, I grant all that so what That could be Utilized there is a lot more IP That that could be acted on in a legal sense hold on You don't really have like a perspective that's fully informed on it. Yeah How dare you make him think about you could have you can abstain from a conversation If you're not ready for it, you're fine Even a professional opinion haver doesn't have to have an opinion on everything on everything They do their professional opinion ever though You would think that in this case he would have a really robust opinion on it considering that react content comprises not a small amount of What he does right?  Yeah, I'm not talking about the law necessarily. I'm talking about This notion that certain stuff that people do is just outright Unacceptable and not up for debate, which I think that you seem to disagree with It's the easiest fucking agreement ever but Awkward because the song is broken this rule so many times with like react harder this whole react harder meme The reason why I brought up the other side of it and how IP law if Enforced to its maximum degree would be really messed up and would Legitimately stop any kind of video from you know what it probably would be really messed up And it's not gonna be helped by you guys stealing everything. Yeah Yeah, I'm being created unless you are going into a process and like, you know even getting here I'll use this because it's not gonna you can see it. The other one is green cloud amplifier It technically be legally enforceable cloud amplifier could come and say we didn't give you rights to use this in your broadcast and like That is anything anyone for I agree. That is that is something that I'm terrified of it's a case-by-case basis You can sue anyone for anything. You don't terrify it at all Would you have like pulled it out and serve like bold? Yeah? Yeah, would you? Would you stream everybody's fucking? No, just no. This is like a what is the word for this when you're like Pretending to be scared of something to make it seem like it's a reason for why you make the shitty arguments you're making There's probably a word for this Which is precisely why the conversation bold and always goes back to are you reacting hard? I don't like the way you're reacting and then it's Entirely in the hands of the IP holder who can say I don't like the way you reacted. I'm gonna DMCA you and therefore Okay, let me ask you this We all agree if you upload let's just we're gonna talk about Vince's video.  It's dependent on what no This is acceptable or not that means it's not because you don't need permission to transform content Yes, but so you think that it's not straight up Indefensible to sit in a box and stare at the camera while the video plays I Think that it is my personal opinion on it is that Actually one Content into indefensible do that however given that it's entirely up to the IP holder Themselves to either make a claim DMCA the channel. Do you say you can say about anything? I mean, I know but but the reason that takes the react harder thing I want to talk about that so the reason why I'm stating that the reason why I'm mentioning this is the reason why I Hate the way you talk Yeah You got Yeah, it almost helps that it's harder to understand them at focus it makes you focus on like paying attention It's like it's like listening. It's the it's the manual transmission version of listening Like you have to pay attention so it's safer on the road or something So so like if you guys think that I hedge my fucking bets this guy All right, so it's like he so if you ever ask him a hard question He'll always say well, I personally think yeah, because that's just a way of him It's a way that he can describe what he thinks but just say oh well I don't want this to be like applied society wide to everyone even though he Yeah, I'm not saying anyone should and I'm not saying the law should reflect it, but I Personally Yeah, well, that seems like you're just a bit allergic to making moral prescriptions then a lot of people are still going to be Confused at the end of this conversation because no matter what happens.  Yeah But I disagree Because I feel like it's pretty obvious when it's not when it's clear-cut wrong Like if you were to sit in a box, yeah, which is essentially what XQC does he adds it is it's so funny That is the normal thing to think and to say and to know Just stealing someone's shit. It's so bizarre.    I wonder how it's really great. Yeah, that's a really good giraffe Drafts are very yeah, that's very good giraffe. Look at me. I really like this meme This is a very good meme. Let's smile my face. Well, it makes me happy. It is nice and wholesome Thank you, babe. Whenever when I look at this meme and I see all the images of you up top I think it's like I get like rotoscope vibes No, I I just kind of do like someone like they they they you know took a Picture and drew over it and stuff like photos and stuff of people and they drew over it like oh look at him I don't know why There you go. That is that's not different than sitting in a box and staring. I Don't disagree with you on that. I do I do think that from a like content standpoint I think that it is unacceptable to do that From a content standpoint, what does that mean? Know what I mean stand point we can say moral content Well, so yeah, that kind of sounds like it means he's just talking about The the raw data of making content. So like whether that be a subs or views or revenue You know money how much money you make off of it from a content standpoint It seems like he's referring to just the the material reality of what you get out of making content No, I think he means like in terms of the goodness of the content or the quality of the content you provide for your audience Yeah, I think it's not good Shinned sniper wolf you said that it's in the bottom of the gray area Which means that there is like at least some level of debatability that means that there's some level of acceptability She talks through it, right? Yeah more importantly than that. I think it's like pre-clips pre But like pre-selected Difference the the it's like a bad faith versus good day faith and like I think that sniper wolf is I Have to look at it. Frankly. I'd have to look at it really close. He's right.  Okay. I'm asked very specific thing And you keep saying but what about all these exceptions?  We've transformed it now because all of those people are there Yeah, I mean yeah, exactly the watching it in a cinema is a different experience from watching it at home There for something I've transformed it now. Oh no. No. I mean It's just what's just like if you took a film and then you did a color correction on every single frame of the film You can be like well every single frame of the film is fundamentally different from the frames as they were in the original film You can present a difference that doesn't like it's if that difference is sufficient enough to transform the experience Yeah, he's strictly appealing to transforming the experience So to the point where if I'm depressed or if I'm sick or if I'm particularly tired that I'm watching it I'm like this is different from last time. I've transformed it now. It's mine.  Okay, so I had the rights to this every different experience of watching it Yeah, I just hate that Just him appealing that the audience feel it's transformative like what bullshit is that? Yeah, yeah, well, I think like What he what maybe it's let's call them Maybe the moral intuitions he's drawing on here is like if you if you say you're in a kid We're going back to the 90s and you're gonna have your your VHS copy of a movie that you liked you take that movie over to your friend's house and you watch it with like five other friends and The fact that you like you bought the the VHS tape so you can watch the movie But you can also go show it to people who don't own the VHS tape, right? So you could show it to your friends at your friend's house You could probably like bring it to a bar and put it on a bar. I mean well, I can do that But maybe not that there's so there's obviously a line here, right? Like if you brought it to your local library and displayed it at the library for anybody to walk in and watch Or like if you At some point as you scale it up and you add more people who are watching it and you also change the method by which you Transmit it it becomes a different type of thing than just watching it So there's different levels of responsibility there, right?  So So I think because twitch streamers just do this out of their house usually they probably feel like they're just watching it when they're actually broadcasting it Well, they're wrong. Yeah Yeah, there is this like I'm not really working. I'm not really a business I'm not really, you know beholden to legalities.   Yeah, right?  It's like come on You know what you're doing is like I think it's not that they don't think that like oh I'm just in my house. So it kind of changes the mental state I think it's just that whenever you do anything online like you download a movie or steal a song It just doesn't have like the same psychological impact as if you were in a store and you grab something and sit off a shelf And so it's just like oh, okay.  Yeah All right Someone in chat said I don't know if it's true, but someone in chat said DSP apparently got $100,000 in WWE gotcha written off as a business expense There's no precedent saying yes, you did a job. Is that true? Yeah, cuz he did it on stream. Yeah Wow, what happened down? Yeah So he got gambling losses written off as a business expense for tax. Oh my god Yep. Yep. So basically the logic, but damn It is leaked there as legal precedent that when a streamer buys a game to play on stream They can write that off as a business expense and attack and like taxes and all that if I gambling losses Well, the thing is that he was he was playing a gotcha game.  Yeah, you said no you said lizard brain. Oh I think I think I said something like lizard brain, but Mueller said the words lizard brain That's actually a really good way to look at it because I mean I called it moral intuition earlier It's just it's just like these people obviously know what they're doing because they've probably all incorporated They probably have like a payroll they probably have, you know all the things that you need to be a small business But I think in the moment they're like their knee-jerk reaction is I'm not actually doing anything wrong because I'm just here in my bedroom Hey, man, they just have to get a handle on that because it's not true Even though it is even though it's like kind of reasonable to think that way because we can all put ourselves in that headspace It's still not the truth.   Oh, I'm so busy eating. Oh, it's promoting I'm not busy. I can eat my nuggets in 30 seconds later. Um Yeah, it's it's lame. It's really lame. I really like that jacksfilm is doing this old sniper wolf bingo now Yeah, it's funny And just tries to get all the creators that are on screen and credits them and everything. I think it's great It's a really fun watch by the way. I've been The thing I find most fascinating about it is that his his next attempt at making a difference because he's pretty jaded after the Like decade of this not going away and only getting worse He's like, yeah, he's just made a whole channel dedicated to making fun of her now And to be fair he rewards when there's good stuff. That's the idea Yeah, but they find it transformative enough if it's a substitute if it's a substitute for the original video itself When xg's face is associated with it, then there's enough people like his argument. I think is Yeah, so you see that he was making a really bad argument that he shifted it over to this is what actually he would say Yeah, this is his argument.  I'm just a humble messenger I'm gonna try to do my best to argue from his perspective Even though I don't agree with re-uploading his videos like in the way that he re What's your perspective Hassan? Let's hear from you. So, um, we had a whole With xgc.  Let's tell me what you think xgc did We I said it did happen We didn't show it on the previous react episode where he does go looking for bad reactions from Hassan that are uploaded to youtube And there are plenty Ones that you know are transformative, but they scare in the line sort of thing They probably ones that Ethan would take issue with Re-uploads them for sure or re-uploading a video that's a straight vod rip where the only feedback you have is come on chat That's crazy. Like the clip that you put together.  I was transformative.  That's number one I'm actually surprising that the guy who advocates and excuses shoplifting is making this position, right? Number two if they don't want it and they want to dmca it I'm perfectly, uh happy to dmca it as well because i'm not using youtube as a way to To make additional money generate additional revenue I'm using it as a way for people to watch these vods that i'm trying to benefit from it But i'm so rich the pennies that come from the adsense on those uploads aren't important to me So they can have those pennies. I want the engagement They normally would not be able to take keep it on twitch Don't upload it to youtube. It doesn't matter that they have remedies.   It's running defense for xqc a little bit.  What was his name jinx?  It was easy then What happened? Yeah, we just did it. Yeah, we just said it was bad I don't know why they stopped they had to stop. That's it. Give us the truth bomb stitch. What is it?  They got no principles. Doobers don't have hair I like us millennials. Okay us old men Wow, now all of a sudden it's feeling it's good XQc's doing it and all these twitch streamers are doing it and it's like, oh, we like them. They're cool Now we're gonna upload when he said all these twitch streamers are doing it. I wish the camera had just shown a shot It's even worse frankly than what he used to upload and that's also true. Yeah jinx used to actually do things The whole time he didn't get on Yeah, sometimes you would say like, haha, that's real funny and it wouldn't be credit. You have to make nuggies So, yeah, you know, and he would credit that's true now that the cool guy is doing it Uh, uh, let's have a conversation about if this fair use or not.  It's just wrong period black done, okay, so It's not fair use and the reason why it's it's not fair use. I don't think that it would be It it would be deliberated on in a way that is like good for xcc if that actually came down to it if by some insanity that XQc's youtube channel was dmca Broken grammar. I was about to say did you did you track that sentence? It was fucked. It's really tough I have to try I have to pay attention I think what he was saying was that if ever a crazy situation happened where XQc's channel got brought into like a courtroom to decide whether or not his reactions were fair use he would of course lose But he somehow like just listen to the way he constructs this sentence.   Yeah, and then he countered it and it actually went to a court of law.   Um, however That is precisely what i'm trying to say is that He's so what like you see the clips of his son, right? You've seen the clips where like his editor He has one sentence and there's like 10 edits The editor cuts out all the ums and the pauses and all this That's very common. I've noticed a lot of youtube youtubers. They they say a sentence or two sentences and there's Three four five cuts and i'm like motherfucker. Can you not say a sentence? A son is the worst that i've seen like yeah, no, yeah, definitely Did did you guys keep up with the um super mega drama? It's very sorted. You don't gotta go into it really but basically some some sort of sexual assault allegations, right? But the the video that comes out is of the girl who was making the allegations By the way, it turns out that they were They were like 99 false allegations because that's how these things go on the internet nowadays in the age of me too, right? So her editor who you're saying is they were kind of true They're like one percent true. Yes They're in the black So her editor who cut together this this vlog that she intended to go viral to take down super mega um It's everything is cut every single pause every single um every thing like it's and it's it's Oh my god a sentence has five different cuts in it.  Right, which is why he understands that which is why he doesn't want to you know He doesn't care. Um, however That is precisely what i'm trying to say That was a weird one. It's just it comes across as like uh, what's what are you? Where's this going now? It's like is that fair use is actually Here, let me just so you see how it's probably coming out of his nose You know, yeah, well, no, it's not just that It's also that he's put himself close to the mic.  He's like getting a new gum every two minutes or something I don't as it looks like anything to delay the inevitable of having to make a point Hahaha Far more expansive like you have been able to create you've actually done something crazy and have been able to create some precedent But beyond that precedent Fair use in the way that we still analyze it in the way that we still uh utilize it Even in ways that the content watchers don't understand But take for granted It's still outside of the boundaries of fair use It's not even a discussion about legality.  Well, the reason why I mention it from a legality point of view is because You're asking like why are people not getting uh more mad at this or why are people not stopping this? If that's your question, then he's XQC should be ostracized. This should not be a norm that people are like Yeah, this is cool.  We don't really want them to be like banned We don't want to be and dmca.  It's not it's not even about fair use Law, yeah, it's about right and wrong. Okay, ultimately. I think if I'm gonna be as like, um It in order to wrap this up. I think what you're trying to say is that there should be some Well-established boundaries that are not legally enforceable obviously because technically everything that you mentioned in the gray area Is it quite literally a violation potentially of fair use, right? That's what that means That's what the gray area means is that it is potentially great No, yeah, muller muller the gray area means it might potentially be violation if it's in the gray area gaps in between all this way Oh, well, I would do it but for I would do it but I just I actually just don't give a shit right now I don't even want to it ain't worth it It's not we're not talking about like legally enforceable. No fair use. We're talking simply about uh, what level of commentary Uh, like What is the bottom level of commentary of this man streams for a living? He's This is a guys Who is a millionaire one of the most successful people on the planet? It's one of those things right of our entire civilization He is one of those successful people in the history of human civilization Spanning tens of thousands of years actually true. Yeah One of the most listened to people And not just streaming like ex-qc at least has the excuse that he plays video games And he's good at the streams For like his political mind Yes, it's it's the kind of thing where he needs to make like a a point at any one point in his stream Any random point and you pause and then you have like a you know device that asks every single person listening What do you just say? What was the point? And all of them are like, um Oh something about gray this He's talking about gray maybe just no strong opinions where it's stated rake and bush 84 There you go Acceptability and how can we in and what's below that some kind of yeah How can we create some kind of social enforcement of it by ostracizing people for violating it clearly and like you?  That's what you're trying to say Uh, because that's your point of view. There's a black zone. There's a black zone If if that's your point of view if that's your point of view. I agree with you Especially when it is uh in an effort in a way to protect smaller content creators That want to generate revenue content creators.  You don't get to steal. Oh, so true Don't just steal anything from anybody.  Let's expand it So In how large or small the creator is Like I agree with oh Jesus Yeah, there's Well, there's just there's you see a lot of people who are coming out like in defense of in defense of you know Shoplifting or looting. There's literally a book called in defense of looting. So There's there's this push from some very radical segments that that Hassan's part of that are very like, okay If you're poor you should be able to just shoplift from walmart or just loot a store because Does some know that like the shrinkage that happens from like shoplifting is Immediately felt by the employees who work At that given shop. Does he know that well, he advocates stealing from santa and the elves the ones that feel it Listen, I mean all all profit is theft.  Who do you think pays the price for that? It's the employees who work at that store. They lose shifts Yeah, the brand walmart is not gonna and then yeah, and then and then it leads to that right Where the store the store may well close in that area and then those people now permanently have lost their jobs Yeah, and if we go by that logic now, we have more people that just start looting shit and then more things go down And oh whoops is the cycle and then we're all fighting They're tearing down capitalism. So it's just santa doesn't visit that town anymore Yeah, you're all bad. Not even cold. No, no cold.  So well, that was the thing you got in trouble in recently, right? Was he was what celebrating that old guy getting what was what was that again? I don't want to he wasn't celebrating He was laughing about the guy. Oh, I can't yeah, I don't I don't want to get it like wrong or confused Get it wrong. He was laughing not celebrating I don't know. I I think it's I think I think it's that attitude that's guiding his his ideas here like if it's okay with Actual property. Why isn't it okay with it's okay with intellect? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if I feel like it's just Solipsism like it's just I like it. It benefits me.  It's less work. It's still making money Um, he would love to maintain the status quo as it exists right now Evidently with how hard he's fighting Even on pretty pretty basic normal Positions that you would hold if you start a political podcast with xqc, which holy fuck. Could you imagine? But if he did They they would have doubled tripled and quadrupled down all of this none of these points would ever have been made by him It's because he's sitting across from e-e-eath and that he has to try and find a way to wiggle out of this Yeah, but all he's doing is doing the same points and then even it's like one sentence away of like stop Stop it. It's left over in the hands.  So I agree with you on that front If you're talking about social ostracization So what is your point regarding the black zone because that's the part I'm curious about regarding the black zone social ostracization Would still ultimately rely on Um, let's not even talk about consequence just right or wrong Do I think it's wrong to reupload someone else? Everyone knows what just happened he heard the question He was like oh this because he's not even just thinking about what he actually thinks he's thinking about how it will be heard Is like and what it'll mean going forward one of the consequences and what is it going to mean for his content? He's thinking about all these things. And so he's like, okay repeat the question back. That'll give us a few extra seconds Oh So annoying Or own vaude rip that you didn't actually Put a tremendous amount of effort in here. Yeah, I I said that already. We agree on that Onto youtube especially is it because then it So then there's a market substitute. Okay.  He's like answer me.  Just give me give me what you think Just looking at you kermit's watching and he's not happy with your performance Is this i'm gonna repeat the question The criticism is still you're not reacting hard enough Right, but sometimes that's valid criticism There we go Yeah, it is like when you're just sitting there It is of course, so what's wrong with saying you're not reacting hard enough. So what's wrong with saying that in the black zone Well, it's because it's not Inforcible in any meaningful capacity. We're not talking about enforcement.  That's there on this show. Let's not be but um talking about right and wrong Yeah, think about the dynamic of the conversation. It's like, uh It's bad when they don't react. Yes. Yes. Oh, no. It is enforceable What are you talking about if you were doing that to like Warner brothers or disney or paramount films they would enforce it Well, the enforceability that ethan's already made clear is the social aspect. He says ostracization That's what we want and and at this point ethan's just asking if he finds it ethical Exactly. This is all This just follows from saying do you think it's right or wrong and he can't give a straight answer This is wild The react harder line is a thought terminating cliche that's specifically used to distract away from a valid argument and hassan understands this so he's not going to give this one up Boundary that you're setting is a boundary that you're setting is a boundary that your audience is setting It's it's ultimately not A boundary that is always going to be the same for every single person Just like you mentioned XCC is what an irrelevant piece of information Just doesn't mean anything well liked. So for a very long time. It was not something that they yelled at me for Why is he saying this? What is this? No And not very well like video you have a dog in this fight.   You put it out there.  Um, okay. Hold on here.  I know what he meant It it hurt it hurt Hasan whisperer, yeah I guess I guess I am a little bit So, you know, there's idea that like there's an idea that if a good is not scarce It's fine to steal right right? So if there's an infinite amount of of water who cares if you steal somebody's water because you can just go get more water Something something like that, right? So Hasan is saying Listen, you can watch a video an infinite number of times So if you steal a view, it's not a big deal. You just go go go get more views But the issue is that the scarcity is not the the Availability is a video Yes, the viewers. Yeah, the scarcity is there's only so many people on this planet with only so much time to watch anything Exactly. Yes scarcity in terms of the consumption Well to be clear, he's not saying that the views are not scarce. He's saying that like If you take a video the video still exists, so the video itself isn't sure If the view that is worth value that That's we want to talk about that we can just get to the fundamental of if you create something do you have rights Over how it's used and distributed and duplicated. He would tell you capitalism He would tell you IP lore is ridiculous and draconian and needs to be yeah Yeah, sure, but except you wouldn't say that if it was negatively affecting him So would agree that he couldn't like make as much money as he is now. Here's a question. Of course.  He's like people like this. Yeah, they do That is the the basis of IP IP is technically IP on content is technically a concept that That that is is no different than enclosures, but this time in the digital sphere enclosures on what Art It's just ownership What does he wait? What does he mean by enclosures and I don't know what he means by enclosure I'm talking about idealistically Um, I that's my second dog in the fight. I think that uh limiting information Makes it oh you guys real quick enclosure. It's a term used by socialists to refer to uh Common property that's been unclaimed by anybody that then becomes private property by someone's use and they use it negatively So he's basically saying that like so let's say, you know You have unclaimed wild territory then someone shows up and builds a fence and starts a farm and has a homestead They have enclosed that property and when a socialist says enclosure They mean to say it that you should not have done that because you have now stolen property from the commons Is the notion that like all ideas essentially exist already in the universe and that like when you come up with it You haven't created it. You've extracted it from the fabric of reality Yeah, yeah Yeah, like you that that's actually the case Yeah, that's how you use it. Yeah, so like if you if you have an idea And then you and you have ip to protect that idea You're taking the idea away from everyone else who could have also had it But it's your idea That's the dumbest thing I've heard in my life But they don't view it as your idea. They view it as humanity's idea. I mean the idea doesn't exist without the agent to realize it though I think the same as enclosing land Yeah Okay, all right, let's move moving on Harder for new Forms of derivative.   Okay, but so are you against all IP law? He looks like he's giving up Browsing porn or something Hassan he must have had this conversation with Hassan before because Ethan understood what he meant to ask this question I think he has had this conversation with him before that's why he's so despondent because I'm pretty sure he's expecting That's on to say copyright law Is we don't actually Very restricted. You need to understand you need more words that go to less places. I've got two dogs In this fight. I got the the principled the the the the the principled, you know idealistic position things And then and and on that front it my personal opinion You know just speaking personally to the fight. I think that you know if we want to talk about That's like out guys two dogs die two dogs. Yeah, um I don't know where the exact boundaries would be as we talked about last week.  Of course. He does it would be here for 10 years anyway, um Yeah, there's actually a youtuber who's a libertarian uh that Unironically has a very interesting argument about copyright tax Like he believes that change the topic america could implement some sort of copyright tax across the board and then there would be no copyright in general you could still um, you know, you could still go after people in in litigation for Reuploading your confidence entirety. So there's still a but how does copyright tax work?  What's the copyright tax space of protection there? But overall there would be a massive, you know, multi almost trillion dollar fund That by the way, this has nothing to do with anything. This is him trying to create like a Barrier and distance between like what the conversation was and he's like coming up with something to talk about Like jettison him.  Why don't we just do licensing licensing makes me more sense than that But you mean that thing that already exists. That's exactly what i'm saying. Yes Why should I have to pay for someone else's copyright infringement? I don't what part of this idea is libertarian If you don't make anything in your life that you just pay for everyone else stealing everyone's ideas Breaking bush would not approve of this idea You go that you spend on media that the government would spend Therefore limiting at least one element of of of profit seeking from the field of content creation and copyright And this would actually open up. Oh, was this back on that heavily subsidized government like art thing that he talked about last Oh god, that idea was insane Yeah, you two videos would be subsidized from the by the government I love how much like obviously at the call all of the Attempts to remove the profit motive from artistic works. It's like this thing that everyone believes would be a good thing to make it more pure but just like I I am Completely convinced if you remove the profit motive from creation of artwork It would like plummet in terms of some of the craziest awesome things we get Of course. No, they'll just do it because they love it You will get people who will do it because they love it That is true But you'll also lose out on a shit ton of things because people who aren't anyone near as motivated because they want to make a Living and create art. Well, yeah, they'll be too busy at their job. Yeah Conversation I've advocated for which is the good face. I'm true Is access to copyrighted material without having enough money That's why I talked about like growing up in turkey And why I believe in piracy if you don't have uh, this is nothing to fucking do It didn't have anything to do with it then and it does it now the money or Access to be able to receive this copyrighted Oh, just wait So I just noticed that it's past eight o'clock and I had to be done by eight o'clock Even though we're all close to the tail end. Yeah, we're even the right What if he says another word that we don't know? I know We need to have this video message of me like deb. Can you explain this one deb? What does he mean by bold?  Nice Or Reagan Well, or Reagan there were a few presidents. Yeah, all right, you don't have to answer.  Oh man. Yeah All right, well anyway, bye All right Everybody what you do in these days where they can find you guys on I was here last time you guys know what you guys know You could follow my channel it's short fat otaku you could follow my twitter It's it's sleepy divo I'm also on twitch and kick as well, but the youtube is the biggest thing for sure Um, and yeah as always. Thanks for having me Oh, I know I noticed I know the chat was complaining a bit that like I kind of disappeared In like for a half an hour there in like the middle of the of the yeah, so you owe us that time back Put it into the into the copyright fund pay I'll put it into the fund. Yeah. Yeah I I got a call had to deal with more car shit, but I mean hopefully I'm at the end of the nonsense now, but Yeah, thanks. It's all good. Very appreciative. Thanks for joining us. Thank you So actually before I go I have one quick question. How come you're doing this one on wednesday instead of saturday? You guys all busy saturday On saturday and there's our anniversary the following saturday, which you better turn up for otherwise. You're not a true friend Yeah, the 26, right? Yeah, same for you sitch All right, I'll make sure I'm there. I'll be there. Yep. Tell adam to come Sure, you're both going to buy our vinyls, right? Yeah, well, I already bought your vinyls Yeah I got it. So listen, I know that adam said he'd be watching Adam says he'd be watching this entire thing. So I just want to point out since I know that you're listening adam You know how I was able to explain enclosure there in the socialist sense. That's why I read all this dumbfuck literature that you complain about All right. Yo adam get uh come you trying to justify why you read my cup right now Yes Thanks for thanks for having me on I'll become a fascist See you Yeah, I just want to make it clear because I'm not talking about any of that and I don't want it to be confused I'm just talking but anyway, he's talking to the worst person on earth for those goals I'm not talking about any of that and I don't want it to be confused Hella has some notes. She says And I think there's a good point we do we shouldn't even call what xqc does react. It's a watch party I really really appreciate this point. He shouldn't be allowed to call what he does reacting Yes, watch party is a very excellent way to phrase it. I like that Like that It's a watch party. Then you really understand That it's it's actually a really good point. It is and yeah He's touching his neck like xqc said evil people do Shit He did the watch party thing is interesting too because if I think j tweeted about this If the watch party thing was actually a watch party and the all of the view count like the viewing Of those individuals went into the video itself. If you know, do you understand what I mean? Like you've got like a Yeah, a watch together hosts that cycles all of the views from all of the views of the stream into the views of the video Like that would actually start to fix all of this That'd be great. It's a watch party. It's not you're not wrong about that at all. So there you go.  He's saying you're not wrong about that at all to watch party Oh, oh, oh, oh, so then you need to be really bad, right? You're gonna bring up people sus because because this sounds like yeah, it's great, isn't it? Isn't it? It's awesome. Watch party. Yeah, it's good Yeah, well, wait, here's a question So if they had a system where you watched something on youtube or twitch and it would give Automatically however worked it would like share your views with whoever you're watching or give them the views Like what would you guys do because you are actually transforming it and you are critiquing whatever you're watching Like would take the views away from you and give it to them or do you share the views? um so this is the thing I actually suggesting it is a bit of a Pipe dream because I just don't know how would this would be set up properly how it would function perfectly There's so many things that would get in the way of it and you know the the big thing stepping in the way of it Is that there's just not enough passion for this this this topic dies every time it comes up it dies straight away and then they carry out I would want because I it depends how much revenue like youtube loses from twitch Like if they could force twitch to do this Like is it worth the cost to implement the system for youtube sake the thing? Well, that's a problem, isn't it? there's no incentive for companies to get this done because I don't even know that they would see much of a It only helps the individuals Yeah, well, I mean it would help youtube because they get some cut of whatever right in theory Um, yeah, because like if you're on twitch and you're cycling those twitch viewers into the youtube Yeah, I don't we're crossing the platforms. I don't even think they would There's so much I wouldn't make it where you did it Yeah, right unless youtube started suing them or something. It'd be yeah.   Yeah, fuck's sake Sharing this video. You're not yeah transforming it. Yeah. I think excuse you would agree with that Technically it is a watch party.  Yeah, and he's also saying he's got all the statistics on this side All of the statistics and facts, you know all those facts Yeah, well, he saw so many of them. Yes, the best facts That's nice. There's a watch party. There's a watch party mechanism on on twitch as well as a matter of fact The only issue is given international ip restrictions the watch party Mechanism only works for amazon.  That's that's the black So Like how are we just not doing tv again at this point?   They're kind of shrinking as the internet You know starts to take over. It's not the same though Because on this watch party, there's like a little guy's head at the corner of the screen. Oh, don't forget all and there's like a chat bar And there's little frogs in the chat bar smiling. Yeah, so it is different. It is transformative I mean that the real part of it that actually can't be understated is the feeling of not being alone So, yeah This is the big change from when you're sitting on your sofa back in the 80s and 90s just if in through tv being like This is now Where you're doing that But you've also got the feeling of a crowd of people all around you with the same values and interests and same disposition And you'll yeah, it's text is scrolling by faster than you can feel like you're a part of something big, right I mean when I was younger Flipping through the channels.   Yeah, and he doesn't even try His watch party should not be re-uploaded Yeah, but he put more work into arranging and purchasing that watch Then he has for like any of his content true Period that's it. Yeah, no react harder. Just not even okay. Anyway, whatever so that's that The watch party, but I do think the watch party distinction is actually very good. Yeah But I do think that's like XQC watching a whole ass movie to move on whatever The point is that I do think that the way you frame the react harder argument isn't a total totally Fair or accurate and does end up running defense for people like XQC who are Re-uploading watch parties to youtube you need to end that with and please don't respond We're just going to talk about something. Yeah, this is please please don't ramble for two minutes Thank you Sure, I'll agree. I risked my case All right, that's just mean Okay, shut up XQC.    Yeah, there's already me and a diaper I don't need it It's so stupid when they're like they do that to me too or like the andrette fanboys would be like Luckily XQC has provided So we've always got that. Yeah, we always have that worm It was there like remember when Hassan was in a dress. I'm like bro. I put that out there That's like a very viral tick tock that you are clipping to be like I owned you What you think I accidentally dressed like a beautiful woman. Yeah, you know what I mean like what do you think?   I'll pay them. I'll do whatever it takes. Please. Please. Please.   So already he's pretending to Not know that uh to make him look like dishonest or a hypocrite for doing the exact same thing I did And flips it on me when the tide shift.   There's no time Can I say something about this part? Go ahead. Please. Please. I'm just curious about like if xqc would ever call the friend card on his side He's like, why'd you let your co-host just rip into me constantly without saying a thing to defend me other than I'm interesting He didn't just flip it on him when the tide shifted.  Chair react guy Look xqc did ironically But I mean Why do you think he said that you do that?  Also if somebody What's wrong with that? He can he can praise people that have watched his content that's helped him And criticized people that have watched his content and haven't helped them That's that's a rational logical thing to do. I I mean currently if i'm wrong, but hassan is saying that in in contradiction to what xqc is saying xqc's point Is that hey, he's been pro these streamers and you only flipped on me when it was you know a good time to do it But is he it sounds like he's trying to defend xqc I think he's trying to show on xqc.  Yeah, that's it Dude, let me give you a great example of this.   Jay, it's j j.  No, there was a j as far as i'm aware. There's one mainline video in two streams.  I've apologized.   I I owned up to it.  You brought it up. What is what is what is happening? Like It's all just lies and obviously ether does no context. He's just like, yeah, sure, whatever. Um, you have to you Well, wait, this is good jay can make another video now Drama farmer j If you're doing this sort of thing And someone gets mad at you and I hadn't even re-uploaded that by the way to youtube Chair reactor or whatever even though that's where the chair react meme comes from. Yeah, that's still bad I love that he's saying like praise me for not re-uploading onto youtube the reactions where i'm just not even in my chair Yeah, you deserve praise for that hasan good stuff and I stopped doing that You have to you can't on the one hand be like if you dmca me.  Here's dude.  He's referenced it twice in this Uh stream and then of course you saw what happened when you saw it live.  He knew that he called them share a son Well, yeah, but um, isn't it easy to like offload onto xqc? They're not actually friends. They only said that about each other because they're obviously higher up on twitch They they are friends by you know circumstance It's all gonna is is hyper transactual.  No, i'll i'll make it up to them. I care so much about them They've created like a Perpetual energy machine by trying to stab each other in the back while the other one moves the other one follows and it just goes on forever Then he goes this guy blatantly lies in a tweet because I didn't respond to his dm 12 hours later Not true was two days later After you literally said in the debate i'll i'll pay him 12 hours because i was flying to vegas bitch. How long's that flight? Flying yet. We had sent an email two days before i talked to vince.  I can compensate you for the full revenue.  What happened to 10x?    Yeah He goes, I thought I'd stay silent and let the storm pass but no everyone jumped on that bag one It's currently spreading lies. I'm coming for you.  Give me your paypal uh, and then and then replied with uh a Way to make amends.  Like what's going on? I think that this is like I'm having a stroke It shouldn't be a little bit different considering that That would mean that he is actually fulfilling what he told you on the stream I mean listen, I think is what you're I mean, I think that's the right thing to do. Yeah I'd be if I was xqc after that conversation. I'd be pretty motivated to pay that guy immediately Ethan is 110 billion percent correct.  It's kind of why not hilarious And not wait two days and then why instead has only been 12 hours.  Do you want to know why I I have a dog to vegas is three hours You want to know why I have a dog in this fight?  I do it Yeah, I know but it's not the same as live streaming on twitch Yeah, if it's my effort, which is Which is dominant in the live streaming uh spear if it happens It will be because of people like xqc true It's not the fault of the people with dmca at that point. It's the ones that have been wrong. Well, the wrong doers Who just sit there and watch full episodes of hunter hunter. Yeah, maybe we should socially ostracize them That could be a good idea. Yes, that'd be great. Yeah, don't give podcasts Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're right about that. Yes the dark night. There you go. Hasan. He said he's right now We can move on right again. Yeah, if it happens is a result of that of the what is actually happening there React channels they've taken over. Oh god. So this is this is a little addendum. I think I find funny This is this channel is called man carrying thing And uh, he made a video about react channels. This is gonna be his his opinion on the matter. Okay All right YouTube for quite a while recently there's been some controversy revolving streamers and reacting to youtube content Basically youtubers who are uploading original content are getting them reacted to by stream and the react I don't know if he's this is his normal editing or if he's trying to evoke the time like original youtube because this So many cuts. Yeah, this kind of job cutting words. Yeah feels classic. I hope it's It's very in quality now I personally have had some of my videos reacted to by streamers and I have no issue with it If anyone wants to react to my videos, they're welcome to it But I also understand why some youtubers don't like that. It's a very complex issue I do want to look at the subject from all angles And you know, I think xqc has a very interesting video added insight to the conversation And hopefully I can you know critique and we can analyze some of what's going on here And hopefully learn more about the the subject so so this is gonna be pretty cool I'm gonna get his in-depth take analysis Based on what xqc has to add to the conversation first So I'm gonna break it down for us. It's gonna give us some transformative content based on Words break down Let's take a look I gotta grab something. I'll be right back. Yeah I still don't understand this and I have like 100k likes again People have been done about this again People are forgetting in the nature People want to set the computer open the one link, okay? Have been on second monitor and play games and whatever. Okay?  Oh, well, I think ours are pretty great. I like ours.   They got you on a tv. Okay. So there that's my that's my talk That's this is my nobody wants to switch channels like they're on a tv. It's just like what? How did how did oh, I am the one like just switch the channels for you. I'm the good guy I'm your remote control Okay, okay.  Okay? Yes, a lot of it is just watching it Because that's what chat wants.  Four there.  Because if there's nothing in the box, it'll bow down a bit with the weight of the Jenga tower Relatively clear. He wanted it to fall What that's not the point of Jenga What is he? What kind of madness is this we're all making up our own Jenga rules What kind of who wants to live in that kind of world if I go play Jenga with someone then dammit I think there needs to be an understanding that the objective is not for the Jenga tower to fall down Well, you play in Bald Jenga Bald Jenga? Yeah, I don't think I don't think I've played Bald Jenga But it sounds like something that would make me angry So yeah, that's pretty crazy Man carrying thing he makes lots of funny funny videos back him out I don't support this Jenga He wants it to fall down kind of thing though. I don't I just don't I can't support that If you watch like a 30 minute xqc video and just play jenga in the background that I mean you can make a strong argument that that's parody and thus protect it completely by fair use Oh, yes, that's it for the next chapter of the react was uh The Is that chapter which which chapter is it six one and then two three four five. Yeah, I think this is six Chapter six. Aren't I glad that I'm finally part of the uh Give it a year and we'll do it do it again Yeah, I hope that it was everything you thought it would be and more Sure, I hope that it was grandiose beyond your wildest imaginings Yeah, so basically react hotter there you go Yeah, I hope you guys learn something Uh, it's so funny because it drags it all these crazy characters and they all say such insane things They all suck. They'll need to start a big tv show It's like the beat team. I don't think I'd watch it though. No I mean if they had to live together interact with each other and like they would rip each other apart Oh They have to react the hardest, that's the challenges And then they'll have to go like whoa chat. See there's chat. Look at this And chat is a little robot that walks around and his face is all of chat And they all have to like try and tempt him to follow them like whoever the other robot ends up following gets more points, you know Oh, and the chat would vote. Yeah, and it's like, oh, look at me.  I'm doing the worm. Let's go Oh my god, we've designed it. There you go. That's the show and the chat is controlled by like You know all of the viewers putting in a command for who to follow and then the the top You know directed around the robot follows them It's all fair. Yeah, we did it. It's a million dollar idea billion dollar trillion dollar Oh my god, there's so much money and then everyone will stream it And we can buy the right re-stream all the streams Fucking fix the world then we'll take down all of the streams and combine them into one video and re-upload that and it'll just be It'll be nirvana. We will have reached it like as long as we're taking down streams and not jenga tower Yeah My stream though my streams look cool. It's time once again. It's probably talk for the vinyl thing. I'll take it That's right The vinyl figures that's high tier content because we've we've flushed out all the old viewers And now all the new ones are in now. None of you guys. That's right watching. We're here at the beginning Guarantee. Oh my god. What if that's how it worked every time a new person joins it boots out someone who's already been here Jesus Wow, that's awful Anyway, this is the main one bringing that up mutually the final figure.  This is the rags one. Wow. Oh, wow. Oh, man Look at that dog. Geez. This is the friggin one. Look at him Amazing Okay, that's right This one's me in my box safe You know warm And I on things no dust is getting to me this box. No jars. No, I just uh just box rags in his box You can always put on his box rags in his box. This is my house where I live until you buy me Okay Well, maybe even for a while after that too. Yeah, that's true. Maybe forever Yeah, you heard what I said earlier about the whole heirloom thing. Keep it. You fresh Then it's the friggin one beauty look at that wonderful Links are in the description And that's indeed Yeah, you should go and you should press that link with your mouse button because they won't be around forever And if you grab the collection together you get y