All right. My name is Commander Matt Clark, M-A-T-T-C-L-A-R-K. I'm the commander of the Denver Police Department's Major Crimes Division. Appreciate you coming out today and giving us an opportunity to provide an update on the three recent police officer-involved shootings. There's a lot of information to go through. I'll take my time. We'll go through each incident. I'll give you a rundown of what occurred. We'll walk through some slides from either body camera or surveillance camera or crime scene photographs, just to put them in context to what we're talking about. And then I'll answer any questions that I can to the degree that I'm able to. And we'll move on to the next one. That's our plan today. So the first incident occurred on Wednesday, July 13, 2022, at about 10.30 PM in the 4,900 block of Washington Street in North Denver. So this briefing on this incident and all of these incidents is intended to be a preliminary briefing based upon the information that we've learned to this point. We've interviewed numerous witnesses. We've interviewed the officers involved in each incident, and we're analyzing evidence that was collected at the scene. So the investigation is still in the early stages, and there may be questions that I'm not able to answer, either because we don't know. I can't disclose at this point, but I'll do my best to answer those as we go through. So this first incident occurred Wednesday, July 13, at about 10.30. At that time, Denver police officers were called to the area of 8th Avenue and Federal Boulevard near the flea market. On a report of individuals who arrived in a vehicle, got out of the vehicle, and were holding handguns. This was concerning to the caller, and they called 911. Uniform Denver patrol officers from District 1 promptly responded to the area. They staged nearby as they formulated a tactical plan to safely approach and contact the subjects. While this was occurring, the Denver Police Department's helicopter was in the air and arrived overhead The operators of the helicopter began relaying information to the officers on the ground. After approximately six minutes, the helicopter crew recognized the occupants had re-entered the Audi and began driving away from the parking lot. District 1 officers followed the vehicle away and attempted a traffic stop near the area of 9th Avenue and Hazel Court. These officers were in marked police vehicles, activated their overhead emergency equipment, and the vehicle quickly sped away. The officers did not pursue the vehicle and discontinued their efforts to follow the vehicle. The helicopter, however, remained overhead and continued tracking the vehicle. Vehicle was tracked north on I-25, east I-70, and then north on Washington Street. The helicopter observed the vehicle pull into a parking lot in the 4,900 block of Washington Street, where the occupants were observed moving items between vehicles that were in the parking lot. Uniformed officers from the department's special operations response team staged in the area and began to approach the occupants as they were out of the vehicle. Before the officers arrived, the occupants got back into the Audi, and the vehicle turned around in the parking lot. So they were facing east to exit the parking lot. Multiple police officers and marked police vehicles approached from the south side on Washington Street. As the first patrol vehicle entered the parking lot, the front passenger in the Audi fired multiple rounds from a handgun at the officers. Simultaneously, the other occupants of the vehicle began to exit the Audi. The officers came to a stop and immediately began returning fire from their vehicle and outside their vehicle towards the front passenger. The front passenger exited the vehicle through the driver's position of the Audi and was seen running with the firearm. He ran and hid behind a dumpster that was in the northwest part of the parking lot that they were in. The subject briefly was down behind the dumpster, but then emerged back up into the view of the officers and displayed the weapon again. The officers feared the subject would shoot at the officers again, and the officers fired additional rounds at the subject. The officers recognized the subject had been struck by the rounds and was injured. They quickly worked to develop a plan to safely approach the injured subject with the shield. A methodical and slow search approach was needed at this point because two of the occupants had fled the vehicle and were not accounted for. Two additional occupants had exited the vehicle and took a position right behind the vehicle. The officers detained the two who remained with the vehicle before moving towards the injured subject. Officers extracted the individual from behind the dumpster to awaiting ambulance. He was transported by ambulance to an area hospital and was later pronounced deceased. A lengthy tactical search followed as officers worked to safely locate and apprehend the two individuals that fled the scene. Members of the Metro SWAT and canine unit located and arrested 26-year-old Tristan Gomez and 25-year-old Jesus Palacios. Both had previously been in the vehicle and both were arrested and held for unrelated warrants. Crime scene technicians recovered a tan, sig-sour P320 9-millimeter semi-automatic firearm behind the dumpster from the location where the subject was extracted from. Investigators processed the scene in the parking lot and located five spent-shell casings that had been forensically linked to the firearm that was possessed by the subject. Two additional handguns were located outside of the vehicle and forensic analysis is being conducted on those firearms to attempt to determine who possessed the firearms and if criminal charges are warranted. We are also waiting for trace reports from our federal partners to determine where these firearms came from. It was determined that the two Denver police officers fired a total of 31 rounds during this incident. Through the investigation, it was determined that 25-year-old Arthur Muteas was the driver of the Audi that fled when the vehicle fled from the officers in the area of 9th and Hazel. Mr. Muteas was arrested and charged with felony alluding. During a search warrant of the vehicle, detectives recovered a large quantity of narcotics to include cocaine, methamphetamine, and fentanyl. Investigators have interviewed numerous people as part of the investigation and would encourage anyone with information or video about this incident to contact the Denver Police Department or Crime Stoppers. Information about the suspect in this case, he's been identified as 26-year-old Michael Saleto, S-I-L-L-E-T-T-O. Date of birth is 5-8 of 1996. Based upon the forensic analysis that's been conducted linking the shell casings to the firearm that was located by Mr. Saleto, investigators are confident that he is the individual that fired upon officers when they pulled into the parking lot. The officers who responded to the incident were equipped with body-worn cameras. All officers were wearing Denver Police uniforms and driving marked police vehicles. The officers who discharged their weapons are both assigned to the Special Operations Response Team. One has been with the department for eight years, the other for five years, and neither officer has been involved in a prior police shooting incident. The investigation of this critical incident is conducted by a multi-agency investigative team made up of members of the Colorado Bureau of Investigations, the Colorado State Patrol, Denver Police Department's homicide unit, and the Denver District Attorney's Office. The Office of the Independent Monitor is a civilian oversight entity that monitors these investigations as well. Before I take questions, I just want to show some brief slides to put context to this incident. This is this first slide is taken from our police helicopter using a FLIR camera system. What you see is the subject vehicle in the parking lot facing eastbound. It was previously in this position here, and then it did a U-turn. The officers, all three of these are marked Denver Police vehicles that are on Washington. The first officer is a two-officer assignment. The two officers that fired were in the same vehicle together. They approached into the parking lot. The next slide shows the police vehicle coming into the lot, and then you see what's captured is a muzzle flash. The first round is fired from the vehicle by that front passenger. The police vehicle is still in motion, continuing to move forward, and a second round has been fired. You'll also notice that the back doors of the vehicle are now open, and the subjects are running from the vehicle at this point. If we go to the ground level, surveillance video captured the subject in the parking lot. This shows the headlights of the police vehicle that's coming into the parking lot. The front passenger window of the Audi is down. The subject appears to have a firearm that's pointed out the window in the direction of the responding officers. A muzzle flash. Police vehicle just is still in motion approaching and a second muzzle flash. Again, the back doors are opening, and the occupants are preparing to flee the vehicle. The subject hid briefly behind the blue dumpster with the cardboard boxes in it. Of note was the firearm located at marker 46. This was the firearm that Mr. Salado fired at the officers, and that was forensically linked to the shell casings that were recovered at the scene. I can answer any questions about this incident before we move on. So there was several minutes. I don't know the exact, but several minutes elapsed because the vehicle moved rather quickly on the highway to get to the 4,900 block of Washington, but officers from the Special Operations Response Team staged again, made sure that the occupants were out of the vehicle. Their intention was to contact them out of the vehicle so as to prevent any type of pursuit or fleeing effort that way, and then as they approached the occupants, got back into that vehicle. Essentially in the flight path from the two individuals who fled. So the forensic analysis is being done to confirm if they were in possession of them, and if we can prove that, then there's likely weapons charges associated with that. The two officers of the Department of 31 shots put on administrative leave. They are. Thank you for that question. So following a police shooting, any officer involved, and this will go for any of them that we speak through today, they are on a modified duty assignment. They do go through the Department's reintegration program, and they are not in an immediate patrol capacity. Besides the guy who got shot, where did you find the other suspects? In the near area there. So the officers were just in the area of 49th and Washington. I believe it was one block to the west, or even mid block in the 49th hundred block. They had just jumped the fence, and they were in the near mid area just waiting there. They were located by the canine officers. Were they in that street that has the houses? Is it a residential? I guess I'm not. I don't want to commit because I'm not positive where they were at when the tactical team got them. I only saw them after they were brought out. Any known gang members among the suspects? We do believe there's gang affiliation with the individuals involved in this. I don't. The preliminary report, the presumptive, came back from the lab telling us that they were, in fact, narcotics. They appear to be what we would associate with fentanyl and with cocaine. I don't have that chemical testing is still in progress. And if charges are warranted and possible relative to that, then we would charge those as well. I'll move on to the next incident. Friday, July 15, 2022, at about 11.50 in the morning, officers from District 1 were called to the area, to a residence in the 300 block of East 51st Avenue on a report of a domestic violence incident. A 911 call was received from a family member of an individual who reported that they were involved in a physical domestic violence incident. The caller explained that a male subject was holding a female with a knife and refusing to let her leave the residence. Based upon the nature of the call, the officers were promptly dispatched and responded to the call with the emergency lights and sirens. Arriving officers went to the front entrance and could clearly hear a female screaming for help inside the residence. Officers found the front door to be locked. They believed the female needed immediate assistance, and they quickly began efforts to force entry into the residence. When the officers were able to open the door, they immediately observed the male who was on a staircase. A staircase goes downstairs from that main level to a attached garage. So the male was on a staircase holding the female. He had his arm around the female, had a knife to her throat, and was using her as a human shield. She was between the officers and his position on the staircase. The officers recognized the victim appeared to be bleeding from her neck and chest area. Officers initially remained in the threshold of the door where they could clearly see the victim and the subject. Over the next six and a half minutes, the officers actively worked to de-escalate the situation and gain the subject's compliance so they could render medical aid to the victim and safely take the subject into custody. Despite their significant effort to talk the subject down, it became clear he was not going to comply. Officers believed the victim was beginning to lose consciousness due to her blood loss and feared she would not survive if she didn't receive immediate medical attention. The officers entered the residence and continued to give clear direction to the subject which was ignored. Recognizing that the female was severely injured from the knife wounds caused by the subject and fearing she would die if she did not receive immediate medical care, one Denver police officer fired one round from an urban rifle striking the subject. The officer was able to get close enough to the subject on the side of the staircase to fire around in a mare that only struck the subject. The female was immediately freed and attended to by officers. She was taken from the residence to an awaiting ambulance where she was rushed to the hospital. I'm happy to report that the female victim has been released from the hospital that was done yesterday and she continues to recover from her significant injuries and the trauma that she sustained during the incident. The male subject who was later identified as 33 year old Chas Gallegos his birth date is six seven of 1989 was pronounced deceased at the scene. Through the investigation, it was confirmed the Denver police officer fired one round from an urban rifle. Investigators recovered a three and a half inch knife at the bottom of the staircase near where the subject landed. At the hospital, the victim was found to have multiple stab wounds to her neck, hands and arms that were caused by the subject. The officers who responded to this incident were equipped with body worn cameras. All officers were wearing Denver police uniforms. The officer who discharged his weapon as a uniformed officer assigned to the patrol district one. And he's been with the department for six years with no prior police shooting incidents. That officer is currently on a modified duty assignment. Again, we've interviewed multiple people in relation to the incident and if there's additional people who have not been interviewed or information about this case, please contact the Denver police department or Crime Stoppers. Before I move on, I think it's important to highlight the significant work done by the officers in this case who responded to the incident. They were intent on peacefully resolving the volatile situation and desperately worked to gain compliance from Mr. Gallegos so they could render aid to the victim. They utilized de-escalation techniques and were prepared with less than lethal force options should they've been available. Unfortunately, Mr. Gallegos refused to comply and continue to put the victim's life in jeopardy and the officer's actions likely saved her life. I'd like to show just two brief slides and as Doug mentioned earlier, the next slide is graphic, so plain accordingly. This is the officers have made entry into the residence now. They are looking down the stairwell that connects to the attached single bay garage. You'll notice they saw significant blood on the stairwell. It's not depicted in this but there's also blood on the railing, on the walls. The victim is in front of the subject in this picture. The officers are on the right side. The officer with the urban rifle went down the stairwell side there on that main level and was able to get a position between the spindles to take a clear shot to neutralize the subject. Investigators recovered a three and a half inch folding knife. This was the weapon we believe was used to inflict the injuries upon the victim. Can't answer any questions you may have about this incident. I saw watching the body camera, it was impressive. They did everything they could to try and connect with the individual to get him to calm down, to recognize that it didn't have to end this way to be mindful of the injuries to the victim, to they were begging him to let her go so that they could provide medical assistance. No, he didn't make suicidal statements. Were there prior 911 domestic violence calls to this address? I'm not sure on that. I'd have to double check that before I answer that. Call for help. A relative of the female. In the house. That individual was not in the house, but a relative of the female called on behalf of the female who was in the house. Were there kids in the house? Initially there was, but not at the time when we don't believe there were when the injuries were inflicted or when the officers were present. They do have a child. Did the suspect continue to stab the victim after officer's injury? I'm not certain that he inflicted additional injuries or not. I'm not clear on that. I don't believe that there was any active knife type assault on the victim while the officers were interacting. Yeah, go ahead. Do we know is it some other thought with the child now? There are other family members that are available and are assisting the child. On Sunday, July 17, 2022, at about 1.35 in the morning, in the 2,000 block of Larimer Street, we had a police shooting. And I'd like to describe and walk through that incident. I'll provide as much detail as I know and answer the questions that I can at this point. So uniformed officers from District 6 were in the area doing directed patrol in the lower downtown area to monitor the bar outcrowd. The officers on these assignments assist with closing streets. They provide high visibility presence in the area to prevent disturbances, respond to physical fights, assist with vehicle and pedestrian flow, and address serious incidents that occur in the area. On Sunday morning, the officers who were near 20th Street and Larimer Street were monitoring the outcrowd when they observed the physical altercation between two males. This was occurring outside the beer hall in the 2,000 block of Larimer Street. An officer who witnessed the event believe an aggressor who had struck another male had a firearm concealed either in his hoodie or in his waistband and communicated that to other officers. Officers flashed their flashlights and announced their presence as Denver police officers in an effort to stop the physical altercation that was occurring. The primary subject, the aggressor in the case briefly walked towards 20th Street, but upon seeing the officers in his path, he turned around and walked northbound on Larimer Street. I'm referring to northbound as outbound, just to be clear. I know the streets are funky, but this will be outbound towards 21st Street. This put him walking through a crowd of people who were gathered in front of a food vendor that was parked directly outside of the beer hall. The officers did not walk through the crowd intentionally, but instead went into the street and paralleled the suspect on the other side of the food truck. The subject emerged on the Larimer Street from behind the food vendor's truck and he was between a food vendor's truck and a parked vehicle when he came out on the Larimer Street. The uniform officers contacted the subject in the street, giving him verbal direction to stop. And it was at this point that the subject was clearly away from the crowd. He was in the street and the street is closed at this point due to the out crowd. So there's no vehicle traffic that would be in jeopardy there either. When they confronted him, the subject immediately began backing away from the officers and he moved himself back onto the sidewalk. He disregarded their commands to stop and to comply and went back onto the sidewalk there. The subject, excuse me, the officers attempted to maintain visual of the suspect from the street recognizing that at the same time that he was back on the sidewalk, he was now feverishly trying to remove something from his hoodie jacket pocket, the front jacket pocket with his left hand. The subject eventually pulled out a handgun and held it in a manner that the muzzle of the gun was pointed in the direction of the officers who were on Larimer Street. Two officers on Larimer Street were facing the subject and they were in a position that was essentially perpendicular to the front side of the beer hall. So the street side of the beer hall was perpendicular to where the officers were facing. This building was directly behind the subject at the time. When the muzzle of the handgun was pointed in the direction of the two officers on Larimer Street, they feared, excuse me, the subject was preparing to shoot at them and one officer fired four rounds, another officer fired two rounds at the subject. At the same time, a third officer who followed the subject around the vehicle and onto the sidewalk also observed the firearm and recognized he was pointing that firearm at the officers who were on Larimer Street. The officer fired, feared for the safety of the officers who were on the street and fired one round at the subject. This officer was aware there were individuals behind the subject and worked to obtain a clear sight picture of the subject before firing the single round. The officers quickly rendered aid to the injured subject and immediately recognized additional people who were south of the subject towards 20th Street who had been injured. There was initial confusion in the number of people who were injured because not all were transported from the scene by ambulance. Some victims left on their own and later obtained medical treatment. Additionally, on the night of the incident, there were reports of walk-in gunshot victims at area hospitals and it took time to determine whether the injured individuals were associated with the incident on Larimer Street. Yesterday, a sixth victim contacted the police department and reported he was near the food truck vendor on Larimer Street and sustained a minor injury to his chest during the incident. In addition to the subject, six people have reported being injured during the incident, three adult males and three adult females. The injuries reigned from superficial cuts and possible graze wounds to more serious arm, shoulder and leg injuries. We're deeply concerned for those that were injured during the incident and are working to provide all available resources and support to them as they heal. Investigators and victim services personnel remain in contact with those needing assistance. The information that I have from medical staff indicates that these victims have all been released from the hospital and continue to recover at home. I want to take a minute to specifically acknowledge and briefly describe the injuries as we know them. Again, all individuals were adults.  At the scene, investigators recovered a black Rock Island semi-automatic 10 millimeter handgun. The firearm was loaded with one round in the chamber and seven in the magazine. The hammer on the firearm was cocked back. A body-worn camera documented the subject possessing the firearm, and there is no evidence that the subject discharged the firearm during the incident. Through the investigation, it was determined that three Denver police officers fired a total of seven rounds. Investigators had met with victims and are working to understand their exact location at the time that the shots were fired. Today, I'm not able to conclude specifically what struck each of the individuals that resulted in their injury. Given the nature of the injuries and lack of ballistic evidence, it may be difficult for us to offer conclusive evidence at any time regarding the projectiles that struck each victim. The suspect in this case has been identified as 21-year-old Jordan Wadi. Mr. Wadi was transported to an area hospital by ambulance for treatment for multiple gunshot wounds. He remains in the hospital with non-life-threatening injuries. Mr. Wadi is being held for investigation of felony menacing and possession of a weapon by a previous offender. The Denver District Attorney will ultimately determine the formal charges Mr. Wadi will face. The officers who responded to the incident were equipped with body-worn cameras. All officers were wearing Denver Police uniforms. The officers who discharged their weapon are assigned to the patrol division in District 6. And the three officers have been with the department for three years. None of them have been involved in a prior police shooting incident. The investigation's critical incident is being conducted by the multi-agency investigative team with the Colorado Department of Public Safety agencies, the Denver Police Department and the Denver District Attorney's office. We've interviewed numerous people. I know there's a lot of video out there of the aftermath of this incident. If there's any additional video of the incident itself, we are requesting you provide it to the Denver Police Department or crime stoppers can be provided anonymously. I'll go through some brief slides and then address any questions. This is an officer's body cam shot. We are in the 2,000 block of Larimer. The officers have come on the street side. Again, Mr. Wadi walked through the crowd on the sidewalk and the officers did not wanna walk into the crowd and in danger, they walked on the street side and contacted Mr. Wadi here. In this photograph, Mr. Wadi has his left hand in his pocket at this point and he's in the Nike hoodie. Again, vehicle traffic is closed. Pedestrian traffic is light in this area where they determined to make or they decided to make the contact there. Mr. Wadi does not comply with orders to stop and he walks and moves himself back onto the sidewalk between the Mercedes and the SUV there. This is a still frame shot from one of the officers. The officer on the right is an involved shooter in this incident. This provides a picture of the backdrop of the officer at the time that the shots were fired. The other thing that's noted is Mr. Wadi is removing that firearm from his hoodie there. He's grabbed it on top and he's moved the muzzle right in the direction of the officer who's present there and that the officers in the next couple of frames fires his weapon. This is a photograph of the officer from the camera of the officer who followed the offender, Mr. Wadi, around the SUV. He too recognizes that the, Mr. Wadi has retrieved a firearm and that the officers who are directly in front of him are in jeopardy and he fires one round. As I described, we recovered a 10 millimeter handgun. This handgun was the firearm that was possessed by Mr. Wadi during the incident. It was eluded and appears to be a functioning firearm. Can you answer any questions you may have? That's something we're working towards. I can't say specifically that there are through and through injuries so we don't have ballistic evidence to compare. It's possible that one of the rounds that hit another object sent debris or something into motion and struck somebody too and caused an injury. I'm aware of one specifically on one of the female victims and I'm not clear, I haven't had a chance to review the medical reports from Mr. Wadi to see if he has any through and through injuries. Commander, there's been a lot of concern in questions from the community about officers but firing at this time and the number of people that were on the sidewalk and the number of people that were hurt. What kind of training do police officers have and did they have to shoot at that time and injure those other people? Well, certainly they didn't go in with the attention of injuring other people there. They were trying to mitigate the threat that the best they could initially to contact the subject in the street at a safe location. Mr. Wadi moved back and then began grabbing the firearm and the officers were in and wanted to mitigate that as quickly as possible so nobody else got injured. The training is specific to be aware of your target and beyond. The officers are accountable for the rounds that they fire certainly and that's a huge part of the training. So they were working, you saw the two officers in the backdrop that they had as they fired to, it would have been the backdrop of the beer hall. The other officer recognized that there were people beyond the subject which was concerning and he took specific attention to make sure he had a clear sight picture of the subject when he discharged the single round attempting to prevent injury or his officer, the other officers from being injured. Why didn't they try to engage him and stop him when he was in the middle of the street and perhaps clear of the crowd? Why didn't they stop him at that point? Well, and they did try to stop him. They tried to contact him and then he did not comply with their orders and the officers didn't go through the crowd. There was nobody on the sidewalk to force him back onto the street so he had clear path back onto the sidewalk. He certainly could have gone the other direction and fled but he chose to stay in that area, pull a firearm route directly in front of the police officers. Commander, based upon what you know, you talked about seven shots, three officers were all seven shots justified? All, every officer articulated a specific threat that he was responding to, either a first person or a third person defense. The two officers were specifically defending their own life. They felt that they were in peril and that the subject could have fired upon them. The officer on the sidewalk observed the subject pointing the muzzle of the firearm of the two officers on Larimer and fired in their defense. Did officers warn the people around? They did not. They did not have time to make notification of their intention to shoot, attempt to clear the area any further. It happened very quickly. This happened. He goes around the back of that vehicle onto the sidewalk there and the shooting incident occurs in two seconds. He goes around and two seconds later, the shooting is done. Can you show me a time code? I'm probably gonna have to give you follow up on that offline. Sir, why show stills from this not the full five camera video? Sure, we're trying to put context to it. There's certainly been a couple of narratives surrounding this incident. One is the subject was an arm and that's not armed and that's not the case. The other that the officers indiscriminately fired into a crowd and the officers were mindful of the crowd and two officers had a backdrop which was nowhere near the crowd. The body worn camera will be released. It's part of the investigation. The district attorney will complete their review of it and then the department will release the body camera. At this point, we're at a point where we're just trying, we're putting context to it and offering to answer some of the questions and the statements based on what I'm telling right now. So again, the cameras will be released at some point. And you said the two officers who were facing the deer ball were the suspect. Was there anybody behind them there? Was this the image from that? Correct. So you were saying there was no one behind them. They had no fear of the people behind the suspect. The officers were pretty clear that they had a clear shot and that the backdrop was the brick pillar or the interior of the beer hall which had been cleared out because the bar closed, the bar push had already occurred. Did that third officer strike the suspect? Put that one round? I don't know and I'm not sure I'll be able to ever tell you because he's obviously the victim is that individual is still in the hospital. I'm not sure what surgical intervention and what efforts the hospital has made if they're going to remove any projectiles from him. Where were the gunshot wounds on Mr. White? I haven't seen his full medical records. We are waiting for those to come back but I am aware that he was shot in the lower part of his body and the lower part of his chest abdomen area. I just know that from seeing body cam. I don't know specifically though. Do you know how many times he was shot? I don't yet. I'm still again waiting for medical records. So Andrew did all seven shots follow department policy? Well, we'll still look into that. So the next phase of this will the investigation will conclude and we'll go to the district attorney. That district attorney's office will make a determination on the officer's actions if they're in compliance with state law and then it will come back. The internal affairs bureau, the office of the independent monitor will review the case and present it to a use of force review board. That use of force review board is made up of citizen members, community members, police command officers and an outside agency representative. I know it sounds like it's a long process but the department is committed to an efficient review of this. And point of clarification, you said the three officers had three years of experience. Is that cumulative three years or each had three years? Thank you for that, three years. They came out in 2019, all three of them. Well, you released their names? Not today. My understanding is they were right. I haven't looked into that specifically. Commander, some are labeling this a mass shooting. How do you address that titling? There's multiple victims in this case and if that's the definition well, there certainly are multiple victims. This was not the mass shooting per se where there's multiple rounds that are striking. I think in this case, if we were able to conclude we would see that people were struck by debris. They might have gotten a fragment, a bullet jacket and didn't actually get impacted by a round. It's not to minimize in any way the injury that they sustained, the trauma that they're feeling as a result of this but these aren't seven rounds that were fired by officers into a crowd of people. And then follow up on the three officers were they all up to date on their weapons qualifications? I guess if I'm gonna answer definitively and I wanna make sure I'd have to double check that but I have no reason to believe that they were not. Certainly. Well, it's certainly concerning and it justifies the demands of review by the department from a tactic standpoint from a policy standpoint and I think that will absolutely occur. Did something go wrong? Yeah, six people additionally that shouldn't have been injured, got injured that night. So we're gonna make sure we support them. They get the resources they need as they continue to heal and then we'll look internally to see what we can do differently. What specifically are you doing for the victims? Certainly the investigators have had close contact with them. We're trying to provide as much information as we're able to at this point so that they're in the loop and we can start to close some of the gaps that they may have had. They've been connected with our victim services team. They have a plethora of resources that they've secured to assist them financially with any initial medical costs, with lost wages, anything that we can do and then the city will absolutely step in where it needed. Was it absolutely necessary to stop him?   In this particular point, could you have decided to just, let's pull back for a second and not do this right here. Could that have been an option? It could have been an option. I think what we see and what the officers thought was, they are regularly down there. They deal with physical conflicts regularly. They break up fights. They help intoxicated people. They prevent crimes. And they regularly take firearms off of people downtown without any issue whatsoever. And they anticipated, they recognized that this individual may have a firearm. They intentionally tried to contact him in a safe area in the street and they intended to determine if he had a firearm and address the situation as necessary. Dad, or did the officers know that Mr. Wadi was out on parole, a convicted felon? Did they know anything about him as they started the interaction? No, sir. The officers had no prior knowledge of Mr. Wadi. So business owners in the area have been reported increasing amount of shootings and crimes in that particular three block area. What has the Denver police done to respond to that extra patrols? Yeah, I think that the officer's presence was exactly what they were trying, what they were there for. We, there's a dedicated, directed patrol high visibility presence of uniform patrol officers from across the city that come down and help to ensure that people have a safe environment to enjoy while they're downtown. So that's the response is to have these officers there. We close streets intentionally in the area to limit traffic, to prevent accidents and drunk driving issues from occurring there. And then these officers respond when they see, just to the last question, when they see incidents or people with firearms, they attempt to address it to make sure it's a safe environment. Sir, a follow up question, I'm sorry. The business owners are complaining about response times when they call for police help when it's not closing time. Can you address that? It's certainly busy. And I know that officers are working diligently doing the best they can. They are call to call. You listen to the police radio and it's busy downtown. I know they're getting to these. They prioritize and triage those calls as quickly as possible. Who is it going to register to? Don't know yet. I'm waiting on a trace report. Sir, the three, are they shot? I'm not sure. And I'm not sure I'll be able to conclude if they were shot. I mean, we certainly have significant injuries. So it would seem like some sort of larger projectile hit them than a jacket. But again, that's just anecdotal. It's not, I don't have any ballistics to compare back to. What else could it be? Certainly some debris could have been put into motion by around striking an object. So for example, the round hitting the brick pillar? The brick pillar, the wrought iron fence, creating shrapnel that put that into motion. Is there evidence that folks aren't familiar with forensics? Explain why you might not know. Sure, so first of all, some of the injured individuals did not require surgical intervention that the hospital would have taken any evidence out, whether it's part of a bullet, a jacket, a case, anything that would have been associated that we would have the ability to conduct ballistic forensic testing on. And then if they were hit by something that wasn't a bullet and we don't have that, there's really no way of determining that or identifying what that object was. I want to jump back. During the course of the physical altercation, one of the officers who was positioned at 20th and Larimer recognized that the subject continued to hold his hand in his pocket. It appeared that he was kept fixing it. And that was indicative to him based on his experience of somebody who may be in possession of a firearm. Did he point the gun at officers? What he does is when he retrieves the gun, he grabs the gun. He actually winds up, he's holding it on top and he pulls the muzzle across. So the muzzle does point at the officers from what we can tell. Does this hold the finger near the trigger? He does not have it in a pistol grip at that point. He's grabbing it on the top of the slide and coming across with the gun. I'm not sure if he could have discharged the weapon. The officers believed, and they saw the muzzle of the gun pointed directly at them. And was that, I'm sorry, and again, if we want it to be easier to tell, is it a continuous motion that he's moving the gun? He is, and he struggles to get it out of his shirt pocket, the hoodie pocket, like it gets caught. So he's moving it around, and then he does, that's when he crosses the officers with the muzzle. Do they issue any other commands besides stop? They don't drop the weapon, they don't drop the hand in the air.  There's several commands being directed towards him. As he walks away from the officers, you can see he's here with his hands in his pockets. Let me see your hands. He walks backwards, and there's continued commands at him very quickly as he's walking back. So he goes out of some of the officer's view behind that SUV, and then you have the officers, this is the front side of that SUV that he just walked behind, and then that's when he presents himself with the firearm. So he's walking, and they see him, and then he walks backwards? He turns around and walks between those two cars, and then he turns and faces the officers here and presents that firearm. Who are you guys waiting to interview? I believe we've interviewed everybody. We will release the body camera as soon as the district attorney is able to review the evidence in the case and make a determination. Commander, recognizing it was a split second decision, sitting here now three days later, could this have been handled better? I think the officers did everything they could at the time. Looking back, we say six people got injured, and I think you'd have to conclude something could have been done differently, but in the moment, they were doing what they could to prevent violence, to stop and ensure safety downtown. Commander, can you go over one more time? What sort of training do officers receive when it comes to shooting, when there are so many people standing around? What to shoot, what not to shoot? So certainly, in terms of we regularly, each quarter, we're qualifying with our firearm. The firearm safety rules are reviewed at that point. There's specific conversation about knowing the backdrop and potentially mitigating the threat to anybody in the backdrop that can be done by changing positions, changing trajectory of your round, limiting the number of rounds that are fired, so as to prevent rounds from going downrange. Are you guys having any conversations now about changing any sort of department policy as a result of the shooting? I think we're looking at what this case has, what the results have been, and how this came to be, and doing internal reviews of our practices, of our training to make sure that it's appropriate. Commander, police departments have been complaining about being short-staffed. Do you now have five officers that are on administrative leave? Are you all short-staffed because of this? The department is short-staffed, but we do have the ability to move resources from other areas to backfill those spots that we can maintain the service.  Can you give us an insight into what was going through their mind in those moments? You've said that they feared for their lives, but what kind of thought process have they shared about the whole venue, the people around them, and what was there? What perspective can you give us from their mindset? Sure, and I think what I alluded to before in terms of they expected, they have taken firearms off of people safely without any issue, taking people safely, who armed individuals safely into custody time and time again, these officers have not been involved in a similar confrontation previously, and it was their expectation that they would contact this individual on a safe location and the same result would occur. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. He pulled the firearm. They're used to individuals fleeing or being compliant, and that just didn't happen. In this case, he pulled the firearm directly in front of them. Commander, the public was frustrated. The amount of time it took you to present this information. Can you address that at all? There was a little bit of an open panic, but there was definitely some concern. On the night of the incident, we were prepared to give a briefing, like we always do, the Division Chief of Patrol gives a preliminary overview typically in these situations, and there wasn't any media that wound up showing up, so we did a proactive social media release using our social media platforms to put preliminary information out. There was, I understand there was concern about the notification that the officers may have caused the injuries to the other victims. It just took us time to kind of determine what happened to ensure that the offender had not fired this firearm to place the officers and start to get a perspective of what actually occurred downtown that night. We followed up with information within several hours, and then in terms of this briefing today, ideally we do these earlier. We try and do them two to three days after an incident, but we had some other incidents that we were working through. We wanna make sure that the officers get interviewed. We've given out a lot of information today, and it's important that that information, I need to get that from the officers first. They don't need to hear our account or what our investigation has showed. It's important for the integrity of the investigation to capture their statement uninfluenced by any evidence or media coverage, and then we can share what we know. Is the number, are you guys the lead investigators on the critical incident? This is a, it's actually a multi-investigative team, and so what that looks like is members of the Collard Bureau of Investigations and the Collard of State Patrol assist us, and the Denver District Attorney's Office is along for the entire incident. They're at the scene with us. They're in the interview rooms or in the conference room monitoring. Members of the Collard Bureau of Investigations, as you watch and review the investigation conducted interviews of the witnesses, of the witness officers. They conducted, the Collard of State Patrol conducted unloads of our officers firearms. I think the State Patrol in this one was assigned to the scene with investigators, so there are members of the Denver Police Homicide Unit, but we have these partner agencies in there and the experience they bring to do these investigations. Is DPD doing interviews too? We do conduct interviews as well. Yep. The man of the Department of Corrections has confirmed to us that Mr. Waddy was violating his parole as things unfolded on Saturday night, Sunday morning. As you stand there now, do you think that contributed to this escalating? Not having an opportunity to talk to Mr. Waddy, I'm not sure what his mindset was. I would imagine though that a prior felon with a firearm who's on parole is concerning to him and he wanted to try and avoid going back to the Department of Corrections. I don't know all the nuances of concealing and carry, but you can legally do that downtown, correct? Correct. And so I guess he's obviously not out to try and conceal and carry that, but he wasn't flashing it. So like, where's that line there? He had it in his pocket. He had been involved in that altercation. So was that, you know, that was a red flag now that they see that he may have a weapon or can he legally have that in his pocket? So him just, had he not been involved in the physical altercation, him having the firearm may not have given cause for the officers to make contact. He isn't a physical altercation. He's an assault, a public fight, whatever that looked like down there. That coupled with the weapon caused specific concern for the officers that there could be a chance for increased violence. Sir, is he still in the hospital? Mr. Wadi was, that's the last time I checked. As District Attorney McCann shared when she's going to be filing charges, she filed a motion for extended time to file. My understanding is our case is due to the District Attorney's office Thursday afternoon and we'll meet that deadline. I'm sorry to return to this, but I still don't understand why you guys can't release footage today. Have you interviewed everybody? It's just the consultation with the District Attorney's office. We're going to present the case, all the evidence to them, allow them to make the determination about the officer's actions and then we'll release the body camera. They've seen the footage, right? Correct. Right. And pulls it across his body and that's when officers see the muzzle of the gun at that point. That's correct. As he's moving there across his body. Yes, sir. Are all officers responding with their body cameras active? Their body cameras captured the interaction. Now the two officers that were present have activated immediately post-incident, but our cameras have a 30-second video buffer that captured the video of the incident and there are other officers present who were fully active, which captured the audio. Not necessarily, that will have to be something down the road that somebody would have to look at from an administrative standpoint. Did you get any video from area of businesses? I'm aware that we have Halo video, video from the city's high activity location observation camera network. I'm aware we have video from a nearby food vendor, not the Euro truck that was there, but another food vendor and I'm not certain if we got the video from Beer Hall yet, but we were trying to secure that. Go back over, did you say two officers did not have their cameras activated while this was going forward? So I wanna be clear that, yeah, the cameras when they're on are in a capture buffer mode. So it's capturing video and then they have to double tap it and that turns on, that starts the capture, it pulls that buffer and then it starts recording the audio. So the cameras were turned on and they activated and were recording audio immediately after the shots were fired. So it captured the video of the incident as that buffer's intended to do. Did it capture the entire video of the incident of the initial? I'm not aware if I have, I don't believe I have body camera video of the physical altercation that occurred that preceded the interaction with the officers. So it captured the actual shooting, but it didn't necessarily capture the officers following him down the street as he's weaving behind. Well, so the video buffer does show the officers walking and just to be clear, they're not following him, they're paralleling him because he's on the sidewalk in the crowd and they're in the street. So the video buffers do show the officers walking down the street. And they're all? No, one of the two. And the other one is the one that's coming this way? That's right. Yeah, I'm gonna give those to the media relations team and they'll get them out to you. Commander, did you say the status of these three officers administrative leave or are they working desk? So it's administrative leave, they'll go into our department's reintegration program and they're not in a line patrol assignment right now. Well, anything change about how officers patrol as crowds leave the bars downtown over the weekends? Is that even being discussed at this point? I don't believe so. I think the officers are there, they're gonna continue to be present and respond to incidents, be available to make sure that there's a safe environment downtown. Will there be any kind of press release with the spellings of the suspects in these three incidents? Certainly I can provide that to the media relations team and they can get them to you. Commander, point of clarification, the third officer that fired the seventh shot, that's the one that hit Mr. Wadi? I'm not sure. I don't think I can conclude which rounds hit Mr. Wadi. We don't have the rounds, I haven't gotten anything from the medical staff if there was surgical intervention to remove those. So I'm not sure. I know that the officer was focused that his sight picture was Mr. Wadi when he discharged his weapon. So the point of aim for his firearm, he made sure that the sights on his firearm were on Mr. Wadi. I'm not sure. That's one of the things we're looking at too is if there was a through and through round to Mr. Wadi as well. And I'm hoping to get more when we see the medical reports. He activates immediately post incident. So we have his 30 second buffer and then he goes online immediately after he discharges. I'm sorry, so of the three body cameras there, two of them were activated after the discharge or two of them were activated? How do we understand when they were activated? There was multiple officers there that have body worn. If I'm speaking specifically of the officers that discharge their weapon, two of them activated immediately post-shooting. So it was shots fired, they reached down, activated. So it captured their 30 second buffer. We have all the interaction. That's where we have these and like for instance, that 30 second buffer gives us this. The officer is not fired immediately at this point yet in the next couple of frames he will. So we have this and then the audio becomes captured once they hit that. So two of the involved officers are activated immediately after discharging their weapons and one was running at the time. What does policy say when officers are supposed to have their cameras on? I mean, there's specific, if they're, the officers should have their cameras recording when they're confronting an armed individual, that is the policy. And they have to manually activate that, is that right? That's correct. If you could circle back to the slide where the officers are approaching Mr. Wadi in the street. I think someone asked earlier about the, maybe the elapsed time that we're talking about. Okay. From about this point where they're making initial, attempting to make initial contact the time shots are fired. How many seconds would you estimate? So, unfortunately I don't have a time stamp on this. He's gonna go immediately back probably one second and then as I recall it's two seconds. When he gets around the front of the SUV, pulls the firearm and is shot by the officers. So, maybe three seconds at this point. It's pretty quick that he goes back and moves and pulls that firearm. So, less than five seconds. I believe so. Yeah. That's an estimate. Chief Payson, do you wanna get from a microphone and offer your perspective on what you now know? First, I wanna acknowledge the injured bystanders. We'll continue to outreach and try to provide support, emotional support, financial support in order to help the injured parties here. That continues. Secondly, in each one of these incidents, an individual was responsible for the incident. We're responsible for our response and we will thoroughly review our response in all three of these cases. We consider ourselves a learning organization and we will continue to try to improve. Our focus on each one of these is to keep our community safe and taking an illegal gun. We have to be very specific on this.  We have recovered dozens of illegal guns in this area in an effort to curb the increase in gun violence in one of our hotspots. Lower downtown is one of our hotspots. We'll continue to work to try to address this increase in gun violence and to address any of our responses in an effort to prevent innocent bystanders from being injured in any possible way. But I do wanna remind folks that this is inherently dangerous, that individuals responsible for the incident dictated the police response. And we're hopeful that folks are not bringing illegal guns anywhere in our city, that they're not committing gun violence in our community. Thank you. Well, the police department exists for our community. The police department exists to try to keep our community safe. And that's what the women and men of this department do day in and day out. There were numerous incidences of violence over the weekend. These are three incidences that involved an officer discharging their firearm. We'll continue to work hard to keep our community safe and to review, thorough review, with that additional oversight that the Office of Independent Monitor brings to this, as well as the District Attorney brings to this. But our focus is on keeping our community safe and that will continue. Are these unrelated or is there anything you attribute to this seeming increase in gun violence in lower downtown? Well, you've heard me talk about this almost at Nazium. Illegal firearms is our biggest problem in our city. We have too many people. We're at 53 murders for the year. We're 20% more than where we were this time last year and last year was an unacceptable number. We're on pace to exceed any year in modern recorded history for murders. This is not only a Denver issue. We have cities across the metro area that are experiencing the same increase. You have cities across the state that are seeing these increases and these illegal firearms in the hands of individuals demonstrating that propensity towards violence is not acceptable. And we as a community, not just as a police department, we as a community have to stand up and say that's not allowed here, that we have to keep our people safe from all forms of violence. And we stand with our community to try to do that. We recognize and we certainly are concerned, our focus, our efforts will be on the injured bystanders in this situation. We wanna support them all the way through their recovery as well as take that deep dive that includes those other independent teams to see if there are policy violations. We will hold folks accountable. If there are training efforts, we will improve training any and all efforts to keep our community safe. That has not changed. Thank you all for your time. Certainly you realize or I hope that you realize that our concern is with the injured parties. I also, we all need to recognize today's date, 10 year anniversary. Again, gun violence negatively impacting our community and we will continue to work to try to address this unacceptable amount of gun violence that's happening in our community. You all have a good- One last question quickly. At least one of the victims is hired an attorney. There's gonna be a news conference within the next half hour. What do you say to those victims that are reaching out now and to the attorney and what's your message to them as they go into their questions about what happened? Well, again, very deep dive. We'll continue with this investigation. It has the oversight from the district attorney's office and the office of independent monitor to the people that were injured. We will continue to offer victim services, both financial and emotional support to help folks that have been impacted by this as we move forward. So those efforts have begun and those efforts will continue. Thank you all for being here. Hope you have a good rest of your day. Take care.


Okay, we're back. We're live here. It isn't a Friday afternoon at 2 p.m. And we're doing community matters with Adam Reverse, who is a deputy corporation counsel for the county of Kauai. He joins us by Skype from Lee Huey. Welcome to the show, Adam. Thanks, Jay. Great to have you on. Adam and I met at a leadership institute of the Hawaii State Bar Association last week. And I thought we were going to continue the conversation here on Think Tech. So we talked about what we could learn from Adam in terms of his experience as a deputy corporation counsel in Kauai. And we settled on a paper that he wrote about Wainiha Land Huey in Kauai, which is a very interesting story dating way back into the early days of the 19th century. So can you tell us a little about how you got involved in the subject? I guess it was in law school. Why you wrote about that? Why you researched that? And what essentially is the subject? Sure. For your listeners who don't know, Wainiha is an aho pa on the north shore of Kauai. Wainiha and Hiena are essentially the gateway to the Nepali coast at the end of the road here on Kauai. In my opinion, the luscious and most beautiful parts of our island. While I was in law school, I read a book about Hiena by a fellow named Carlos Andrade. That's not so much a legal book, but I thought it was fascinating. It made a reference to the Wainiha Land Huey, which I had never heard of. And I had an extended family living in Wainiha who was farming some of the last remaining taro lohe up there. And I'm a history buff, was a history major in undergrad and wanted to learn more and was required to do a semester-long paper in law school. So I chose to do a legal history about the Wainiha Land Huey as part of this project, which ended up being eventually published in the University of Hawaii Law Review. Outstanding. For those who don't know, that's the top publication at any law school. It's very important for a law school to have that. It helps the credibility of the law school, but it also is a great prestige point for anybody to have an article in a law review, whether you're on the editorial board or not. And so that's an achievement all in itself. So Adam, tell us what happened. What did you learn in your research? What did you write about? Sure. So you first to put it in context, modern context real quickly. As I'm sure it is on every island, there are continuing issues on Kauai about housing and the disenfranchisement of the local population, the gentrification of communities and the influx of vacation rentals, pushing local people out, et cetera. And I think in maybe as I described this further, I think that this historically dovetails into that. And I'll start out when I first started just googling information to learn about the Waini'a hui. I came across an article in the Hawaii Almanac from 1913 by a Reverend John Lidgate. And the Hawaii Almanac was essentially the reader's digest of Hawaii back in the 1900s, had shipping schedules and goings on. And John Lidgate described the formation of the Waini'a land hui. And the story went something like this, that the Ali Ikani Kaka'u Nohi who inherited in the great Mahelei, the entire of Waini'a took pity on his local subjects and decided that he would sell his land to them cheaply. They purchased it and immediately began infighting and fraught among each other. And they ended up in misery. Wouldn't say no. That was John Lidgate's story. But as soon as I started to do my own research, I discovered that virtually everything John Lidgate had to say was false. So another little contextual note. So not to go into the whole history of the great Mahelei and the creation of private property in Hawaii, but we mentioned in our initial conversation, what sets Kauai apart. One of the things that set Kauai apart during that period of time is that it had the smallest percentage of Kuliana awards to native Hawaiians of any island in the kingdom, aside from Lina'i. So Kauai, Kauaians were largely left out of this new private property regime, when Kuliana lots were awarded to tenants of the land. And one of the one of Kauai's solutions to that problem was to reform land whoies, which purchased enormous blocks of property. And specific to the Wainiha land whoie, Kekaua O'Noe had originally inherited off the 15,000 acre, not inherited, but had been granted the 15,000 acre of Wainiha, but died very soon after. And Kekaua O'Noe was actually a she, not a Lee Connie like John Lidgate had described. The property then went to, was inherited by her husband, who also died soon afterwards.  Shortly thereafter was purchased by Castle and Cook. And then in 1877, 71 native Hawaiian families pooled their resources and bought all 15,000 acres from Castle and Cook for $5,500. Castle and Cook made a profit? I'm not sure what Castle and, I wasn't able to find out what Castle and Cook purchased it from, but I do know that at the foreclosure proceeding, it was purchased for $3,200. So there's a couple of thousand dollars difference in there. So let me just do context with you. So the, see the unification of the state was back in the very early part of the 19th century. And Kawhi was never conquered by Kamehameha. And Kawhi was always a little different. What was the relationship of Kawhi and the rest of the state at this point? And what was his part? You suggested there was a, there was a participation, but it's sort of a low level participation in the Great Mahaley of what 1848 or so. What was the relationship in general of Kawhi and the rest of the state at that time? Um, you know, I can't tell you as official political status, but even though Kawhi wasn't ever conquered, it was, it was essentially brought into the kingdom by subterfuge when the then king of Kawhi was kidnapped and forced to marry into Kamehameha's family. So although it wasn't militarily conquered, it was effectively brought under the control of the kingdom by the time this who we, the who we event was taking place. And so one of the reasons that Kawhi was a part, I think, in the initial disbursement of Kuliana properties was that at least in the early stages of the Kuliana award process, you actually had to appear at the land commission, which was in Honolulu. In the 1850s, it was difficult for somebody from Kawhi to get 90 miles across the channel to Honolulu. So I think it was just simply physical physical barrier for Kawhi residents to make claims at the land commission. I think in the in the later stages of the land commission process, there was a local office opened. But that's that's at least part of the explanations just geographic isolation. Yeah, now the great Mahaley was in Honolulu, I guess it was well essentialized in that way. But it sounds like Kawhi had its own smaller Mahaley. And it was somehow resonant with the great Mahaley, wasn't it? Sure. Well, it was it was part and parcel of the Mahaley that was, you know, based at the land commission, which was housed in Honolulu, but it affected land ownership and on all the islands. Okay. All right. So now we have, what did you say 1877? And we have this group, the group of people Hawaiian native Hawaiian people who raised the money and and bought these 15,000 acres from Castle and Cook for $5,000. I take that deal today, by the way, I want to be clear about it. If it can be found for me, maybe you can help me with that. Sorry, I missed I missed that last question. I take that deal now. Oh, I would too. Yeah. So one of one of the fascinating things, at least fascinating to me about the land to me is that, you know, prior to the creation of private property in Hawaii, with the great Mahaley and the distribution of Culeano lands, essentially, the native tenants or native residents lived communally in Aho Pa, farming their own, their own individual plots and having a house lot, but also sharing the upland area and the lowland fisheries and communal farming lots. And once these 71 individuals purchased that 15,000 acre Aho Pa, they established a constitution for themselves to continue living in exactly that fashion. They had small allotments for each of themselves. But they established communal rules as to how the upland forest would be managed, how the fishery would be managed. They set limits on the number of livestock that every tenant in the Aho Pa could have. They had communal rounds ups and rules for branding. They had an elected Konoiki. They established couple times for fishing. They gave an exclusive right to fish for hay or octopus to a group of specific women. They regulated the numbers of nets that every tenant in the Aho Pa could have so that nobody would catch too many fish. They regulated how many fish traps every, every resident could have so that the fish in the stream wouldn't be overfished. So it was an incredibly well-organized system based in a written constitution to govern, essentially govern themselves. They even had their own sort of independent judiciary system where disputes between any member of the Huey had to be internally addressed first before they would be allowed to take their, get on their course or walk to the Huey and bring their case to court. Well, how interesting. So a constitution. Now, I guess the monarchy back in Honolulu and Elani Palace had to approve of that. But that's interesting to have a constitution within a constitutional monarchy. How did that work? I mean, there must have been some contention about it, no? Well, actually, part of my paper, the very involved sort of legalese part of it is how the Supreme Court through a whole series of decisions dealt with land who is on all the islands. And the Supreme Court initially viewed these Huey constitutions, which were common on all islands, actually as contracts, essentially binding contracts among the members. That's not unreasonable, is it? I mean, it's a reasonable interpretation. In other words, it isn't a question of sovereignty. There really is no sovereignty because it comes with on within the sovereign. But you can treat it as a contract and about how people are going to conduct themselves. I guess where I get stuck is in the judicial side of things when they have a judicial system that operates sort of under another judicial system. I gather, although there's not a lot of details in the record books, which actually which notably are housed at the State Archives, I believe that they're one of the only if not the only written Huey Constitution and record book that's still in existence. And anybody could go to the State Archives and see copies of that today. Yeah, and you have the original, actually. You have you have seen the original you have gone to the State Archives and part of your paper, I'm sure is is built on reading it and looking at it and handling it. Yes, I actually had to have a very willing friend of mine do the translation because unfortunately, I don't speak Hawaiian, and it's actually written in Hawaiian language. Is it handwritten? Correct. Yeah. Interesting. How long is it? I think it's about 120 pages, which is the original Constitution that has the records of all the meetings and the and the transactions of the organization. Well, this is an elected treasurer, secretary and the Constitution set out to regular meetings and elections of the Konohi Gate for the land to another one of the fascinating aspects of this land to eat. But from my research, all land who is across the islands is that at least when they are first founded, they had specific provisions in their Constitution to maintain the integrity of their land base in that you weren't allowed to sell to outsiders. So if somebody that had each individual would own a share in the Huey, so there were 71 shares. If somebody died, didn't have an heir or wanted to sell, they had to they had to offer the shares for sale to the Huey for what they purchased it for. So not only could they not alienate the land, but they couldn't make a profit. Huh, it sounds like a co-op in Manhattan. But hey, let's take a short break. That's Adam Reversy, the county deputy county attorney in Kauai. He's did a research paper. We're talking about whihina and whihina land who is all around the state. In fact, why why why why Nihá? Yeah, why Nihá in Kauai. We'll be right back after this break. Hi, I'm Carol Cox. I'm the new host of Eyes on Hawaii. Make sure you stay in the know on Hawaii. Join us on Tuesdays at 12 noon. We will see you then. Aloha. You're watching Think Tech Hawaii, 25 talk shows by 25 dedicated hosts every week, helping us to explore and understand the issues and events in and affecting our state. Great content for Hawaii from Think Tech. You can be the greatest. You can be the best. You can be the king. Come play in your chest. You can be the world. You can be the war. You could talk to God. Don't bring it on him. Okay, we're back. We're live with Adam Reversy, a deputy county attorney in Kauai, talking about some research that he did on whihina valley in Kauai and the whihina land who we not unlike a number of land who he's that existed in the 19th century. So Adam, as we left it, these families successfully operated under that land who we for a while. But over time, you know, I'm only guessing here that we don't have that anymore. What happened to it? Sure. Yeah, they actually persisted for almost 100 years until 1947. So there was there was a couple of things that came together to for the death knell of the whihina, but for who is all over the entire state or then kingdom. So and they they arose from a series of Supreme Court decisions. So the very first decision involves deciding whether these who is were tendencies in common or joint tenants or joint tendencies. Those are two legal phrases. But the practical effect is that if if something is a tendency in common, and an owner dies, the ownership interest passes to their heirs. If something is a joint tendency, and the owner dies, then the ownership interest reverts to the other owners. So the court in 1886 decided that land who he's were tendencies in common, which mean whenever we watch meant that whenever we remember passed away, their ownership interest would go to their heirs. And that what that decision did is it quickly fractionalized the ownership in land who is the whine he obviously specifically, but all land who is across the state. So instead of having 71 members within a generation or two, you quickly have hundreds, if not thousands, the old story and nobody Well, I guess had had one of those members had a will, which disposed of that property to say one person or two, you wouldn't have this fragmentation. But I guess nobody had a will in those days. There weren't enough lawyers around a no, that didn't seem to be a tradition among the native Hawaiians to do wills at a second decision. So as I mentioned earlier, originally the Supreme Court viewed who we constitutions as binding contracts that fit in with native Hawaiian traditional customary practices. So the court took a very positive view of who is and actually their decisions really supported their rights to self governance and to govern themselves and to control their members. In the early 1900s, a new Supreme Court all appointed after the overthrow of Queen Leo Kalani took a much different view of the who is and essentially decided in two different court cases, ultimately the Mahalo case that the land who is were legally not recognizable entities. They were just collections of individuals that had their own rights. So with that Supreme Court decision, the land who we could no longer stop its individual members from selling off their portions or could no longer control the fragmentation of their land. That's interesting because today right now in 2017 you can do that. You could make a co-tenancy agreement and have exactly the same effect. But I guess they weren't in the mood to help perpetuate the land who is back right after territoriality. Yeah. So that then led to the Partition Act of 1923, which allowed, just as an abstract example, if a piece of property were owned by 100 individuals and one individual wanted to sell, he could force the partition of the property in order to get his money out. That paralleled one other important fact for Wainiha. Back in 1903, the Wainiha who then still a powerful collective entity leased the water rights in the Wainiha River to the McBride sugar company to create a power plant. And McBride used the energy generated from that power plant to drive the water pumps on the south shore in order to irrigate the sugar plantation. So that was in 1903, the who re granted McBride a 50 year lease to the water rights in the Wainiha stream. For a generator, a hydropower generator, which I think still exists, no? It does. It's still there today, still generated power for KIUC. Amazing. So that was a 50 year lease, right after, shortly after the Mahalo case that I mentioned that's just determined that the individual shared individual sales could not be stopped by the who we McBride sugar began buying up shares in the Wainiha who we and by the 1940s, McBride had managed to accumulate nearly 50% of the Wainiha who he shares they were outstanding. And a matter of only four or five years before their lease to the water expired, they instituted partition proceedings in court here on Kauai to divide up Wainiha Valley. Into multiple discrete parts. And so the idea was that they could because they held certain parts, they could call for the separation of the land, their part and the parts of everybody else. That must have been in a pretty scraggly boundary. It was quite involved proceeding the court record here on Kauai, which have actually gone and looked out on microfetches, four or five hundred pages of details. But the end result was that in 1947, the Wainiha who we that had been established way back in 1869 was forced forcibly broken apart through this judicial proceeding. The practical end result was that the lower valley, which is closest to the ocean was divided into 250 house lots, which were given or sold to the then residents of the area and the upland 10,000 acres of all became private property of McBride sugar along with the power plant and water rights to Wainiha River. And of course McBride was already in the sugar business by then. But when it confirmed title, it probably expanded its sugar operations. And they ended up, let's see, that they ended up that ended up costing McBride at the time for their 10,000 acres as well as the rights to the water. Forty thousand dollars. That was I take that deal too. I want to be clear. I would take that deal just as much right now today. Inter interestingly part of that partition proceeding provided that and this is to McBride's benefit, I guess that all of the deeds that were handed out to the individual property owners ostensibly required the preservation of all the traditional irrigation, a Y that were feeding the tarot. Lowy and Wainiha, which had traditionally been a huge tarot growing area. But unfortunately, as of today, virtually all of them have been destroyed, just despite the fact that they were supposedly protected in connection with this partition proceeding. They not many exist today. I think there's only maybe 20 acres that are still being farmed and tarot in Wainiha today. So interesting. So but there are still native Hawaiians on that land, huh? It is a pocket of continued native Hawaiian land ownership here on Kauai. And once you asked when we when we talked a few days ago, you know, what's going on on Kauai now. And I sort of reverted back to this historical paper. But one thing that was happening just recently here on Kauai that was all over our front page of the paper is there was a land dispute in Wainiha down by the main highway. And a group of young native Hawaiian activists were attempting to reclaim an area that had once been a tarot growing area. And we're planting kalo and had built a small shed area. And they were all arrested for trespassing. It was in the news they had the mayor go down to try to assuage everyone. And it became it became a big deal politically. And in the news here on Kauai. Got me thinking back about this paper that I'd read several years ago the context, historical context in which that current dispute is still ongoing. Oh, really, it hasn't been resolved. Not with this particular parcel. I think, you know, these young guys are still pending their day in court for their trespassing charges, etc. And continuing to fight with the landowner who owns that property. And McBride is not doing sugar anymore. McBride is essentially out of the sugar business. But what is the condition of the land? And you suggested that McBride had the dispose of its title. So who owns it? I mean, it's part of it. I'm not sure what the I know that the the predice, whatever the name of it is, the predecessor of McBride still owns the upper 10,000 acres of the valley. And I think it's actually in a partnership of some sort. I could be wrong about this, but I think it's still in partnership of some sort with the Nature Conservancy, who is a who is fenced the area to do native white plant restoration and eliminate feral pigs, etc. as part of the statewide watershed rehabilitation plan. So the Upper Wainiha Valley is still unoccupied, just forest land and the stream. It's fairly steep valley. And I guess that the folks controlling it are doing their best to restore it to the extent that they can. Yeah. But it's, you know, when you when you have sugar growing a long time, it's hard to restore it. And I suppose a lot of it is really not yet re re forested and replanting sugar. Sugar was never grown in Wainiha. Wainiha is too steep for sugar. Ah, the white McBride's operations were on the opposite side of the island and they actually ran the power lines from Wainiha around it over the mountain to get to the their sugar operations on the other side. So Wainiha never had sugar. It's too steep in mountainous for for that. So why did McBride want it in the first place? 15,000 acres, 48,000 dollars. Why? Why did they go to that trouble if they weren't going to do sugar on it? They wanted it for the power plant for the water. OK, OK, water was important. You know, it strikes me that this could be the the mythical valley in in the in the that book that was written. I'm trying to remember the name, the Descendants, the Descendants book. Is this the mythical valley at him? No, the the mythical valley from the Descendants is, I believe, Kibukai over on the southeast corner of Kauai. Yeah, yeah. But so what do you take? What do you take from the study from this discussion about, you know, what what can we learn here? The Ahapua was a valuable way of living and certainly preserved the land to preserve the community. There were a lot of positive aspects to it.  But what do you take from it? You studied it, you spent the time, you did the research. What do you learn from it? Well, one take away from me, a lot of the history that you read about the Mehalai is as native Hawaiians solely as victims. You know, this thing happened to them, was imposed on them, and everything was downhill from there. But I think that the Waini Hauui in particular, but the Hui movement generally on all the islands demonstrated that native Hawaiian tenants at the time were not necessarily helpless victims. They mobilized themselves in an organized fashion. They used this new regime of private property to buy large blocks of land to continue living the way that they had lived. And they were they were able to successfully do so for quite a while until the law in modernity caught up with them. But it, for me, at least, changed the predominant story that I learned about the Mehalai and you know, the passive role that native Hawaiians played in it. I think this demonstrates that the native Hawaiians at the time were not passive. They took an active role in trying to make their lives better and continue living the way they had lived. Yeah, and it did a good job at it for quite a while. Profoundly affected by the overthrow and what followed in territorialization. So very interesting. If I wanted to learn more, if I wanted to read your article, where would I look? I think that the University of Hawai'i Law Review is available online via the university's website. And I'm not sure if you actually have to pay something or if it's for free. It's been a long time since I've looked. But I'd also be I'd also be happy to share copies of it to people by email. I don't know if giving out my email is a good idea or not. Do you do that? Sure, you can. Sure. So it's just my name, Adam Roversy, which is R-O-V like Victor, E-R-S-I at gmail.com. And I'd be happy to send anybody a PDF of the paper. Thank you, Adam. Wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a great discussion. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Aloha.


وضع الخلوه يعمال للمفريكة يا حسين و walkin' with empty hands و بطريقة و wondering heart don't waver walking up to your saviour wondering heart don't waver walking up to your saviour as you're visiting he who stood for me on the plains where is Yazid gone come to see now where is Fossain as you're visiting he who stood for me on the plains where is Yazid gone come to see now where is Fossain my name is Irfan Ben-Jay come to Orlando this is my first experience for your brain walk and it has been a phenomenal experience so far it has been a very spiritual journey looking at over 20 million people walking around going to one place one man who sacrificed his life 14 years ago it's a revolution it's a movement that's usually taking place and the whole world can watch it the spiritual movement you get on this journey all your sins are wiped away as you make each and every walk as you go through each and every pain the test that comes through it really helps you elevate your status now that you're making the journey to Imam Sain Ali Salam you're now going to him in this state where you're all dusty and all disheveled you're going to him and telling him that I'm here for you I'm here to answer your call that you gave 1400 years ago and I'm here to tell you that I'm here standing for you it is now my turn to show him Imam Mehdi is waiting and I'm here for him now إن شاء الله we'll keep coming every year every year till the Imam reappears and we'll take this justice again he said to him Imam what did you just say in honor of these Suwa do you know how magnificent it is that Imam Al-Sadaq prays for you because you visited Aba Abdullah Imam begins the dua with these wonderful words اللهم اغفض لي والإخوان وزوار قبر يبي عبد الله الحسين عليه السلام or Allah forgive me and forgive my brothers and forgive especially the Suwa of حسين عليه السلام انتوقفوا one look at me many people came to ask for what we needed for love can i am asking you for nothing I came to give my hand and to kiss your send and to tell you thank you my king لفاك لابدهم they up to you we came في نحارة لي calling out your name لفاك لابدهم up to you we came pain with heart on rate calling out your name يا حسين


What if instead of saying I want to be stronger, one can remodel the statement and start saying I want to be faster. I want to be faster when doing my work, when writing, when cleaning the house. I want to be faster when walking the dog. I also want to be faster when going through that coding tutorial and learning how that Excel spreadsheet works. And do you know what do all these things have in common? They do not involve strength. So get that thing away from my face, as in today's world it is more useful to be the flash instead of Superman. So I started doing some research trying to better understand if and how can we increase our speed across multiple domains. And if we could indeed, what does it mean for our brain? And even though you'd think I might be joking right now, I think we are all kind of ultimately agreeing when saying that you would want to become faster in a lot of things. And this is why I want to focus my attention on the common factor in today's world that is, of course, the internet. And I also believe that we can all agree that we have become faster when using technology. We understood how most user interfaces work, and we are intuitively growing and cultivating our understanding of how to use different pieces of technology. And the first thing we can explore when trying to understand the use of speed in this context is social media. As almost everyone on the planet is using it, and we can pull out a lot of interesting data in regards to this topic. For example, I found a study where scientists were researching the effects of social media use at older ages, which was largely focused on social benefits. Yet participation in these new media forums resulted in other favorable outcomes, such as improved cognitive functioning. The study examined the effects of social media engagement among novice adults' social media users in four cognitive domains, attention, processing speed, working memory and inhibitory control. And the baseline and multiple POST tests indicate improvement of intervention participants in inhibitory control. These findings demonstrate that the benefits of social media use at older ages extended beyond mere social engagement, and into other domains of everyday well-being. And also the way a social media platform works, having a constant flow of information going through your feet, it basically pushes your brain to adapt to survive. And this is not as dark and sad as it sounds, as we will probably biologically merge with AI anyway. But the overall tip, for myself at least, is to use social media with some sort of balance and also selfish interest. Meaning that if one individual uses social media when necessary, it can give a positive outcome to the user. But when the user finds out that his mood has declined and his kind of feeling overwhelmed, that's where the user should pull out the plug. And this is why things like speed reading and skimming or speed listening might come in handy. Because you can simply jump into social media for a few minutes per day and force yourself to speed things up, and construct a mental summary of what's happening in the world, or on your social network. Like Eurus Holmes, Cheryl Connse's clinically unique sister, who was able to predict the exact dates of three separate terrorist attacks on British mainland after only one hour on Twitter. And the overall conclusion that social media may increase the speed of how older people process information is a decent starting point as well. And again I'm not aiming for over-stimulation here. Now learning how to do this is indeed a skill, and it is all about content consumption. And overall the available evidence indicates that the internet can produce both acute and sustained alterations in each of these areas of cognition, which might be reflected in changes in the brain. But I want to point out that the unique features in the online world are helping us increase our processing speed and capacities. I also got interested in the idea of video game speedrunning. And essentially a speedrunner is a person who can beat a game at a very fast time. To do a speedrun, one has to ingest, digest and analyze a game in such a way that enables finding more productive ways to finish it. And this is why it is very likely that speedrunners will have different brains than most people. And I know that sometimes people say and think that video games are a waste of time, but most of the people who say that probably have never been immersed in a magical world with their game avatar. It is indeed a sensation that can never be replicated in the real world. And that's what makes it interesting. And then if you look at studies and find out that a gamer slash speedrunner is not actually impatient, but actually smarter than a known gamer, one will start being amazed. Because there is evidence that computer gamers tend to have higher IQs than non-gamers, especially those who play MMORPGs. Their skills are mostly focused on logical slash mathematical and spatial reasoning, including reflexes, inclination towards finding shortcuts and efficient ways to do things, and also improved overall cognition. And this is when speed gaming morphs into speed thinking and speed acting, because the gamers won't be able to play the game in the same way once they start exploring new ways to do things. And in terms of digital productivity, i.e. working on a computer, speeding things up might be the best thing you can do most of the time. And I want to highlight a Jake Knapp article titled Go Fast to Stay Authentic. And Jake Knapp is the author of books such as Sprint, How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just 5 Days, or Make Time, How to Focus on What Matters Every Day. But in his article, Jake had some interesting points I will highlight right away. Jake says that going fast prevents you from second guessing. Speed keeps you authentic. If you got a weird, opinionated, crazy, possibly stupid, possibly great plan, and you take a long time to think it through, revise it, and make it perfect, you water down and wash out the goodness. If you are building a product, there are lots of reasons to go fast. It's cheaper, and you get to the market sooner. And if you are off course, you might find out before it's too late. If you are writing, there are lots of reasons to go fast.   You won't edit yourself to death. And I also want to bring up a kind reminder that perfection is the enemy of good. And most of the time, good enough is good enough. If you want to learn some new software, why shouldn't you jump on YouTube and increase the speed of that video tutorial as the guy is talking kind of slow? If you want to understand the central, essential, or general matter of something, such as an argument, speech, concept, or process, without being proficient in the more specific details, why shouldn't you speed things up when trying to learn about it? It's essentially like a superpower you want to turn on and off, and in terms of how your brain's processing speed reflects in the real world, now I want to talk about how speed running through a game or mastering chrome shortcuts can translate into improved productivity in the physical world. And I believe that there are individuals out there who are speedy in terms of their physical work as well, without probably even knowing that they are actually speed running through real life, because it's the brain who's wired to find shortcuts to getting from point A to point B as fast as possible. And these are individuals who figured out that they have some special abilities they can practice, improve, and leverage, just to speed things up and make their work more efficient, and also differentiate themselves from the herd. So if someone comes up to this guy saying that, hey, you should stop and smell the roses, the guy might simply reply with something like, but who is maintaining the roses? And we must not forget that speed of processing and execution has been a key factor throughout history, from the atomic bomb and who's getting to moon first, to the nowadays speedy but not inaccurate medical procedures and feedback loops. But how can we increase speed? Well, first of all, one can use digital supplements such as some background music. A study from 2014 on cognitive effects of listening to background music on older adults showed that processing speed has improved with upbeat music, while memory seems to benefit from both upbeat and downbeat music. So the music will get you into a flow state and hopefully you will stay there for a few hours. A few more exercises you can try to practice speed in the era of the internet, improve your typing speed using something like type racer or playing some speed chest online, gradually increasing the speed of that YouTube video you are watching and also skipping different parts of a movie. And I know that this is a debatable topic but let's face it, most of the movies nowadays are garbage, they contain scenes you have seen before and you're pretty much adjusted with the expectation. You will rarely see a mind blowing movie, and this is why I believe we can gradually increase the speed with which we use technology, because we have the feedback loops. I also believe that there are two sides of this story, because we have people who consume content because they enjoy the journey. And on the other camp we have people who are speeding things up because they might be about getting to the destination faster. And this is why I'm not going to judge, and each individual has his own rhythm, and I'm not saying that the path of speed is best for everybody. But one cannot neglect the fact that once you increase your overall speed of doing, you will also adapt and possibly convert that speed into your new default state of B.