It started on the first point. So I wanted to bring this up of something that I wanted to do. So with all things, it's a proposal, in my opinion, until we start developing it, right? So I have all these plans in place, but I'll move quickly to put these things in. But then people should be welcome to challenge it. But we're also not going to wait for anybody. So one thing in particular is value stream management. So it's sort of this cryptic thing that we haven't really been able to define very well. And so, but at least Hannibal did a good job sketching out one design and concept for the September 20th event that Mark Fuensack proposed. So if you still don't know what VSM is, that's a good place to start. And so essentially, we had a couple ideas there. We said that we wanted to track the time that you would be within a certain stage, right? So if you're in the in-dev stage or in the in-QA stage or in UAT stage, how long does it take for somebody to be in one of those stages? So what are the statistics? What is the average of that per team? What is the worst time and the best time and so on and so forth? So I wanted to mention that initially our thinking was that, OK, let's continue to use the Issue Board, because we have the Issue Board. We have that. And then we have labels represent workflow stages. And we have labels represent a lot of things. So we've ran into a lot of trouble in the past with labels representing stages. And the original thinking, like half a year ago, said, OK, that's fine. We're going to charge ahead. And we're going to use labels to still represent stages. And we're going to build VSM on top of it. And we also did some upcoming work, which is label tracking events to help with that. The past couple of weeks, I've been thinking that if we continue to do that, it's going to be very messy, because not only are labels representing stages now. And I mean, they are doing that right now. But if you look at GitLab, labels representing stages are limited to an Issue Board, but nothing else. We don't build on top of that understanding. That understanding is there, but we don't build on top of that. So if we build on top of that and have the expectation, if you think about all the designs and all the things that come after that, it's going to get a lot messy, because sometimes labels don't represent a stage, and you have to account for that. And so I saw an opportunity for an idea is we already want to do enforced workflows per group as a separate concept. And so we wanted to say, sort of like approvals, like you have a whip, and then you have approved by whoever in a merge request, and then that blocks it to getting merged. So that workflow stage you're gating is something customers have been asking forever. It's something that JIRA supports. And then I'll let Sean go to his point in a second. But it's something that clearly the market wants. It's something that we scoped out that we want earlier. So I thought, why don't we build BSM on top of that, since we need that feature anyways? And if we do that, that's going to be a lot easier to build BSM on top of. So in particular, what I'm suggesting is a letter C, we have enforced workflows per group. So at a group level, you would say that every issue goes through INDEV and QA and UAT, and then closed. And then there's some details there that I put on that topic or issue. And if that's at the group level, you have a board which can inherit. So you can have a special type of board which uses that enforced workflow automatically. And then once you have that, then you can build BSM on top of that very easily, because you have stages or states. I call them stages for a particular reason. And then you can build BSM on top of that. And then my last point before I'll let everybody jump in is that my concept right now of enforced workflows is that we're not going to introduce additional states. So we're always going to have two states. It's going to be open and closed. And the reason we want to do that is we don't want to break GitLab. We don't want to take like 10 months building code that will take forever to be released. But my proposal is that within the open state, you have multiple stages. So even if and then those stages are customizable per group. And so even if we release the first feature, which is literally just transition issue from one stage to another stage, but still within the open state, all your features in GitLab will still work, because every issue will still have an open state versus a closed state. And that is still clearly well-defined. And this is on top of the existing open. So I'll stop there. Shana has a point, but anybody can feel free to jump in on anything. So I mean, if Sean wrote to me first, I guess he gets first steps. He already answered my point, I think. So that's good. OK. So at GitLab, we dog food a lot. We don't dog food everything. We don't dog food LLAP, for instance. We don't dog food Elasticsearch at the moment, like we've discussed. There's a bunch of specific features that we also don't need. That's a difference. We don't dog food.   Yeah. Would do you see us as wanting enforced workflows, or this just being more fair, more bigger enterprise-type customers? I can definitely see us. So that's a great question, Sean. I always find it, I love being on the plan team, because it's so easy to build things, because I don't have to worry that nobody's going to use it. And so I always think about this point. And so this in particular, I think we can at least use the version that is not that restrictive. And so for example, you can imagine our first version, you have all the stages, but then there's no restriction that, this is one idea. I don't know if we will build this. I don't know if you would have multiple stages. In general terms, you would have the states, but everyone will be able to transition to every other one. So in general, you have to do transitions. Exactly, so that's what we're going to do. Yeah, and the enforced workflow thing is you can say, OK, from in Dev, you can only go to in review, or you can go back to not started, but you can't go straight to UAT. Or you can go straight to UAT maybe. But in Jerry, you can configure all that. So OK, so your idea is that we would probably maybe use the states like we do with the in Dev and in review labels, but we wouldn't enforce the transitions between those for ourselves. There's a couple of ways I can think of it, because if we don't enforce it, and then we build a feature later that requires enforcing, that's additional configuration and that might be a bad idea. How I can envision one way that we get around this ourselves when we use it is that our first feature, it's going to be linear transitions only.   So you can drag it over, but then GitLab just and instantaneously, it's moving through in Dev and QA in UAT for you automatically. So that's a different way around that as well. And then, so for example, the closes, I thought about how merge request closes an issue automatically. We obviously don't want to break that, at least as a first release. We don't want to change any of our internal processes. So maybe that would still work and you need to have the right permissions or something like that. So I haven't gotten a lot of, I haven't thought in detail about that yet. Oh yeah, but that was the thing that I really hate about this thing with JIRA is that you could set permissions on who could move things into each state, which sounds good because it gives you control. But if you only let the QA team, for instance, move it into the out of QA state and they're not available, then you're kind of stuck. And it might be something that doesn't actually need QA because it is, for instance, a change log. So yeah. Well, then like a big enterprise would say then your requirements should have a checkbox that says it doesn't need QA, right? So like, we can go on. You have to do it. Yes, exactly. That's what JIRA is. Just if anybody here hasn't used JIRA, that's how you do JIRA. Exactly, so that's how we have to be really, so I think we have to be doubly smart here. Like we can't reinvent JIRA, but at the same time, or not, and also we have to invent it in a way that we can use it because we want to keep using our own software as much as we can. So I think, but I don't see any inherent fundamental philosophical blockers to anything I've proposed yet. So I think all these things can be designed correctly. But those are super valid concerns that I was thinking about as well. So thanks for bringing those up. Thanks for summarizing, because I'm not going to type it. Other, oh, how is JIRA? If we're not enforcing the transitions, I don't understand what this is about then. So there's the enforcing the transition and then there's logging the transitions, right? So both are important from like a enterprise-y thing. So enforcing the transition is exactly like Sean said, like roles and permission, enforcing transitions, you're not allowed to get passed. And then the logging the transitions, both are a way to incent behavior or correct behavior, right? So if everything is logged, right, then you're still responsible or the actions you take are laid for everybody to see. And therefore you would be incented not to do something incorrect, right? So I can see a mode of that or I can see a version of that where as a developer, right? Or we have that right now in GitLab, everything we do has most or more or less as a system though, and everybody can see what you did. Like I mistakenly moved something from an issue that Brett Arner-Tum was working on and he got really pissed off, rightfully so. So then like everybody can see in the future that like Victor screwed up there. And so that would be an example of how not enforcing it could go. And then even within enforcing, like I said, you can have the really tight version that Shaum is alluding to, which is to get out of the QA stage only QA role can do. So that's one version. Another version is or less strict version that you just have to go through all the stages step by step and then, but like anybody can do that. So what I'm asking is if we're not doing the enforcing of transitions, we're just enforcing a specific workflow. How, then you can still see the timestamps of every one of those things happening, right? There's still a lot of them there. Exactly, so we already have that today and we're doing the events thing for changing labels. And a person can already create a board with the workflow that they want. And so it's just dragging and dropping and you can jump from one stage to the other or from the first one to the last one. So I don't understand. No, you're right. I think you're right. Yeah, I think, yeah. The enforcing of transitions? Yeah. Well, I think, I think. What are we doing differently? Or maybe it's the experience that you want to be different? No, no, I think you're right, Pedro, because we can, the experience would be a nice to have, but in talking with customers they don't, they wouldn't think what I just said is sufficient. They would definitely want what you said. Definitely that enforcement. So we have to like figure out what that is. Is that gonna be permissions? But something a little bit tighter. There's probably something in between. I can't think of something, I can't think of something I'll have to tell in detail right now, but I don't wanna necessarily build in new roles right now. We can definitely use our existing roles to do it, but I don't wanna build in new roles because there's a bazillion reasons why we don't wanna do that. And so we don't wanna add yet another reason to do that. Yeah, so basically, we already do everything that is needed except the rules, except enforcing that of whatever specific work for the company has. Like this person can only move from this stage to that stage or it has to stay this amount of time and that's the, I don't know, crazy rules, right? And that is what JIRA has. Not saying that we should do it exactly like JIRA has that functionality and maybe that's what people want. Right. So just to understand, so if we take out the enforcing of the transitions and the rules, we already have everything they need, right? But the experience gap is still there though, right? The experience gap, like nobody, that the experience gap is still there. So it's not as great, but I'm pretty sure, not pretty sure, like I'm 100% sure some companies are doing that and saying that I want enforced workflows, but right now I have, they're using stages on a board and then it's not a great experience and they would love to have enforced workflows. Okay. And have you heard this from customers that are not using boards? Or is it only from people that are using boards and they are not? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know the answer to that specifically. Are you saying that, are there anybody not using boards because we don't have enforced workflows, right? Or we don't, yeah, like we don't have this type. Or maybe they don't know about boards or they don't have not looked at boards in a way that allows them to do that. Maybe they just went to a board, it was empty and they're like, oh, I don't know what this is for. So let me go back to the issue and see if they have any control, like change to status or change to stage. And we don't have that. And maybe they were disappointed because of that. Yeah, no, it's hard to know that because that's like arguing from nothingness, but for sure, for the opposite is that like they do find these features. And for, I haven't had a customer come to me and say, I wanna do a workflow board, like can GitLab do that? Like customers have asked that, but it's like they just haven't used GitLab before. But any customer that's already using GitLab and wants to know that feature is always using that feature whenever they come to me as a customer, like in a sales car or something, that they already have it. And it's always like one customer had, it was crazy, they had a product board and an engineering board. So the product folks would move things through and I guess designers, I don't know if they had designers, but they would move things through and then they wanted to copy that issue. And then they wanted like, are copying thing is not good enough? And they would just not copy, sorry, they would move an issue from that project, the product project or group or whatever it was, I forget, to then engineering equivalent and then it would transition through their board. And I was telling them, no, no, no, that's crazy, just have one friggin board or just have one project or one group and then have one single source of truth issue. So that project can do boards or one board. Exactly, so that's usually, that's more characteristic of where we need to improve of just making the experience easier. Yeah, that's what I, yeah, not the discoverability of the future itself. And maybe it's both, right? So, and that's what I want to understand is, is the problem like people look at boards and they don't understand how that can help them do workflows or is it the other way around and some people don't even know about boards and maybe we need to service that better inside of an issue page, for example. Right, right, right. And because they're looking at the issue, they're going to close the issue or I don't know, they're looking to move the issue. I don't know, somehow we need to see what are the hints of someone going to move an issue to another stage. Exactly, and once it's, yeah, exactly. Once it's a stage, a proper stage and not part of a board or a label, then it's a lot easier to handle. Like, exactly you said, like, people have been asking forever, I want to know the board stage on an issue or I want to move an issue to another board stage while on the issue and like we can do that but not really right now and the reason is because it's hacky, right? So, I had an issue a while back that says that workflow stages should be scoped to a board but when I thought about it like last week it didn't make sense at all, it should be scoped to a group and then the board should inherit that automatically. And then so once you have that then it's all consistent across. So that's yet another reason we, this will help. Fatih, which thing were you cringing at? There's so many things we talked about. The last one you're talking about, you know, having the boards and moving the issues around that one. Okay, okay, okay, good, good, good. I didn't know if you just didn't like the concept of enforced workflows in general. So, I think, I think your lab in general is warming up to more structure and enterprisey things as we scale, but we still have to be super careful like about this thing. Yes, the cloning of the issues was particularly mouth opening but one of the things I wanna mention now at this point picture is that when you talk about inheriting this sort of stages into the boards one of the things that I didn't see in this issues highlighted is that idea of having a board created just as we have now with assignee's list or milestones list or whatever and still being able to distinguish the stage of the issues that they're in. I see that the group board with enforced workflow will basically enforce the workflow throughout the board. Imagine a plan board where I have like all the assignee lists that have their issues and one of the things that we discussed past I don't know if it was in particular about swim lanes or not but having basic transition to the bottom part of the board because it's already in review that sort of thing. Yeah, I don't think it's covered. Is it on this bulk of work? Yeah, definitely this is what I've sketched out is definitely a thin slice here. And if you look at like EFG then forced workflow is a stepping stone to get VSN, right? So like I said earlier, there's definitely a market need like there's like a whole VSN, a Forrester thing that we did okay with so that's why it's on our homepage but definitely that's like a driving point here. And like when I showed this to Yope he agrees with it like we wanna move fast but we wanna still build like solid foundation. So as I thought about this more I was fairly convinced that if we build VSN per original plans it's gonna be really messy. So I think at least my boss would be okay with us taking time to build the enforced workflows to a point where it's good enough that we can build VSN but like what is that line? How good does that enforced workflow have to be? And then one of the things that Andre I think you're exactly saying is that if you have an enforced workflow board by definition it's more powerful but maybe you don't have the mixed board functionality you don't have that anymore or it's harder to do a sign-in list and stuff. So you use that type of functionality but like again if I were to design in 30 seconds yes I would just add that additional dimensionality which is swim lanes the horizontal dimensionality you could use that to have a sign-e's or even mouse ones would be crazy but even labels right you can have labels board into multiple labels. So I think that would be that's possible but like I think it would be interesting if and when we released enforced workflows it would be a different board type at least how I envision it right now but it will be like almost like I don't know if like we wouldn't definitely wouldn't say market it as it's just a step back where we say it's something different which it is we would be- I see it as a, sorry to interrupt but marginally related but different scope effort which was more about the swim lanes than the enforced workflow. However, we will inherit that information and the stages that will be used on that scope. So yeah. Yeah and then the other thing as I thought about that particular point more is as you, so I should do a better job of writing these things down. So the great thing about that is say you're a team like you're the plan team right and then you can still have so maybe we'll have views or maybe we'll still have multiple boards when we're doing this we're gonna still have like a back-end board a front-end board and a sign-e board that has both back-end and front-end folks and then we'll have a different board just for the workflow stages. So from that perspective I'm really excited because like how we've designed boards up to now it's still flexible so you don't lose all that functionality right? So you're using GitLab Ultimate you can create all if you're using GitLab Premium you can, okay so if you're just using GitLab starter you can have multiple boards and one of those boards would be workflow boards with labels then use GitLab Premium then you can start using a sign-e list and milestone lists then use GitLab Ultimate then you throw out your workflow board with labels and you replace it with a workflow board using stages right? So that I think again that's all consistent and that's how we would use it I imagine and so I'm excited that it's not like we're switching to this other mode and then like all the other things that we're using on a team-based level would have to be reset we're just asking for a customer to say oh before you had like workflows and labels now you're always gonna say like build an importer or an upgrade path where you take those workflow labels and you turn them into like custom stages right? And then you would have a board and then that would just work like he's gonna say you need that for adoption which I'm gonna agree and cringe but yeah so that I think that those use cases will still be there so I think that's great but very good point and then what did I wanna say last? Oh yeah so with the swim lanes how I've sort of reserved that right now or like how that would be super useful is if you look at letter G sorry not letter G a letter F so that's a concept that Anibal put together with a lot of direction from Mark and so the concept there is that there's an active state and idle state there so this is still really really just me thinking in a cave so it needs a lot more collaboration to nail this down but the concept here is that in VSM we really wanna identify whether a issue is idle or active or not an issue but just at the end of your iteration at the end of your quarter and then you're like Tommy right who's Sean's boss right now and then Tommy and then there's also Dowey and stuff like that and he wants to see like across all the teams are as a roll up like how are the teams doing are all the teams stuck in in Dev and inside in Dev or in QA and then within that stage is there a lot of idle time there is people actually like doing active work or are they always blocked and then we're doing too many things at once so this would be super helpful to characterize that and so my first concept is that you just simply say that an issue if there's no activity an issue then it just becomes idle and then in the database you just log one day that that's idle there and then that's all you do and then visually on the board it just drops down to that second swimway so that is my awesome idea that's not really mine at all I think it's pretty much Mark's idea he created an issue way back when but that's the that's as I was talking about like yes enforced work flows is not too exciting or is exciting but really the main goal is to really bring this to the VSM land of getting this type of metric and process of having more visibility so that's how I was envisioning using the swimway so if we do that then how do you add more swimways for labels I have no idea like do we not let people do that so that can get pretty hairy really quickly so maybe we need like a third dimension like 3D chess and Star Trek I don't know how that will go I think this might work with with labels still it just needs to be a different board because here what we're doing so if you remember like that discussion that we had initially about swim lanes and there could be a lot of things that we could do with a sine swim lanes with labels swim lanes and one of the examples I gave at the time was so you had the workflow columns and then you could have like in our case for example two or three swim lanes which could be for example two, 20 seconds and then like the catch all swim lane everything else or deliverable and then stretch and you had those swim lanes but I think if you try to put all of that together with also the if it's idle or not right right over complicates because you are also then mixing the fact that like each column might also be associated with a different role right and so I like this design in terms of having swim lanes to say what is active what is idle and I think that we can piggyback on I don't know about the automatic logic of what you were saying like that's definitely the amount of time it changes but let's imagine that the active and the idle swim lanes are actually labels and each time that's for example it's in dev and now you want to pass it on to QA what you would do you go into the board and you would drag that card from in dev active to in QA idle right right because if you pass it to in QA it's automatically or most of that until someone picks it up and then when someone picks it up they would put active and then from in QA to in UAT they would go to idle in UAT and so it will be like a zigzagging pattern I can see a variety of I don't want to get too much in detail but you're totally right Pedro like there's so many concerns there one of them I had my initial design here is based on I don't want to introduce a new state and I just want to like that's super exposed to the user and because the main reason is because that this idle and active is more for after the fact analysis and less so for like operationally you're looking at what's idle and active because you don't really care right now right you just care that there's something to work on and you're gonna work on it and then but I think what you're getting at is that that reflects more reality and what you propose you could actually like measure to the minute and so I'm arguing that you don't need that but maybe that's more natural so that's why I don't want to disagree or agree with you and maybe the first step that allows us to be flexible as well is just to not have those fixed active and idle swim lanes but just allow people to add as many label swim lanes as they want right right they could use that for priority they could use that for activity like active idle or anything else that they want basically it's just a matrix right you're seeing right you're trying to compare that with another level of information sure so I think for the first step just right off the bat I would say that labels could be label swim lanes could be a good thing but I don't know we still have to look at it yeah we have to figure out yeah I know swim I love swim lanes because there's another dimensionality there's vertical with less horizontal with swim lanes there's board config which is saved to the board and then there's the search which is in the search bar so there's essentially four dimensions per board which is amazing and then if you have multiple board views per one quote unquote board that's like a fifth dimension so you can do a lot there from a design perspective I think what were you thinking and of all when you were working on this for the vision which concerns did you have about this yeah I don't know where the actual design went on the issue but I was throwing away everything basically it was just you know here are the stages that you can go through with with any given issue and it followed basically the example and you know dev qa uat deployed that kind of stuff and then the swim lanes were only two idle and active it's exactly what you said so it's kind of it's basically assuming that you're going to have one board that is this enforced workflow and then other boards for everything else so you can't really do a signee I mean you know you can't really do a signee lanes or anything like that for what I was thinking so I'm not sure yet yeah yeah the signee swim lanes would be a different thing but do you think so when you were designing this like looking at those two swim lanes did you initially thought it would be okay to have this in a fixed manner or or didn't you give it much much thought it was just to get out the division quickly yeah it was just for the demo but what do you mean by fixed fixed in the sense of like being not necessarily a type of board but like we give this to you like GitLab we build this kind of board where you have the active and idle swim lanes and that's it you cannot do any configuration and they're not labeled they're not like they're not anything we're not relying on anything that already exists we're creating this new paradigm out of a fixed sense of active and idle instead of allowing users to build their swim lanes I was kind of under the impression that it wouldn't be a true issue board and this would be really value stream management alone so you'd have your issue boards with whatever configuration you want for milestones assignees that kind of stuff and then this would be vsm and then idle and active act like labels but they're not really labels in that in my head I was thinking it would be completely automated so you're not you are zigzagging in a way but you're not dragging it because you don't really know when it's idle that would kind of throw off the whole point of tracking how much idle time and active time there was so I was thinking the user or the owner of the whole group would would set sort of or use time tracking or something to display how much time it should an issue should take in each stage and then depending on not so much the activity in the issue but how long it's been in that stage it would start moving automatically this is not for first iteration in any way and I'm not really sure how this would happen but that was in my head so yeah this was just kind of its own board and it was just for the demo so I didn't really think of all the cases or any of them actually yeah I think one thing and correct me if I'm wrong Victor but I think one idea or the way I look at this in terms of like vsm and issue boards and it's like vsm is I didn't think of it of like even maybe having that name somewhere in the interface and in the product it would be like we do vsm in the same way that we say oh we do agile or we do scrum yeah that's that's right I always thought of it like it's a yeah it's a category or solution we have to figure that out product marketing is something yeah we have a we have a page it's slash bsm and we have slash forester dash bsm it's our lessons learned from engagement with forester but you're right like I don't see us having that anywhere but yeah no no I I echo what when I was putting this together at least my version I was thinking along the same lines as edible like the the idle and active are automated dragging between stages I think Mark said oh I was thinking that it should be automated again I agree it should be automated but then we probably can't automate it yeah we can automate everything and like we're not going to have merge requests on a board anytime soon and maybe we do I don't know how that would work but um there's gotta in my opinion there's always going to be room for some manual dragging on a board yeah definitely and and just to get into specifics that the automated part some of it was more obvious like if you've got a related merge request that is work in progress and then you move work in progress then it would move to you know review or whatever that next stage would be and then it would there be some sort of hook that would tell if it was deployed to staging and then it would move to the next stage um but some of them would definitely need to be manual cool thank you all right so we have 15 minutes left I don't want to take too long but um but yeah so everybody please dig into the epics and issues and participate I temporarily put this at like if you look at the first epic like actually pretty soon so we'll figure out how this rolls out but um I think we have to solve enforced workflows per group we have to do uh custom fields as well and so that's another epic um so so those are sort of the big areas where it's very enterprisey and we have a label called governance that I've been using and it's like a very enterprisey word and not everybody might like it so I didn't come up the word it's and it's on the homepage of gilab about dot gilab dot com it's one of our three words at the bottoms so it says like governed and something else and something else so it's a it's a it's a word product marketing uh what's the use um so I'm using it and it's also I think is it is I think it's also one of the categories that we were evaluated on on the vsm forester wave thingy so it's consistent there so anyways um uh so this is gonna be coming up pretty soon but for the rest of the year we should be focused on uh what yob calls boring things which is pretty funny because like everything we're doing is boring until it's not um so boring things in in the sense that really obvious features that like ui polish and debt in terms of features that that we don't have yet so so these are things upcoming but really quickly um two a notifications and to do is anvil you said that you haven't gotten chances to start working on this yet so um and so and while you're also working on epic relationships I don't want to have you like over over uh overworked or whatever so well what are you focused on right now yeah I am working on epic relationships although I haven't done anything since the last meeting really when I presented those designs so I'm not really sure what the next step is with that okay so so I think last time we said that we wanted to do the have some views for the the roadmap view so are you planning to work on that oh yeah that's what it was yeah okay so do you want to jump on that first before doing to do some notifications or like I think both are important so I don't have too much of a preference but it's I'll probably start the roadmap because that ties in more directly with epic relationships okay um I also just wanted to give you a heads up that I talked to Clement earlier and he's got some plans for a CSS lab this release so technically I think I'm kind of 50% on that okay so 11-5 right uh what are we about to release 11-4 wait we're we're gonna release 11-4 in uh 19 no I can't do math okay but we're starting 11-5 development um but I also don't know the CSS lab thing is is not part of the repo of CE and EE right so is it separate or is it is it is separate but I think we're trying to follow the same sort of really so yeah 11-5 okay okay yeah just just let us know that um well we did already so we'll we'll we'll we'll I'll still pin you as much but maybe I won't expect you to respond as often or if I sense that the backlog is a lot I'll sort of like tone it down but thanks for the update did you go ahead yeah Annabel do you know if those issues for CSS lab are already like the scope of what you're going to do for 11-5 is already defined are you with something with issues already no Clement asked me what my availability was and I it was I don't know so I just figured if we just assume it's 50-50 for this release then that'll just make things easy well not easy for you well I mean that there wasn't wasn't that the initial expectation or communication it was yeah okay I think that's fair yeah I mean I'd love to have you 100 but we have to respect the initial conditions that were introduced um which sucks um anyway so Annabel again so you more more questions from you so I did see your comment um I didn't respond to it yet but uh did you want to bring up whatever a query you had for this one yeah one second um labels with the same name yeah I was I'm not sure what oh this is so annoying what is the expectation because I didn't see that the combined to-do label in a project but I'm not sure so this is basically a consequence of we have project labels then we had a group labels then we made it possible for you to use a group label from a parent group so it's possible to have I think it's possible to have all three at the same time where you have a label called to-do on a group then you have a subgroup and you have a label called to-do on that group and then you have a project in that group and you have a label called to-do on that project and if they all have the same name because we group them by name in the drop-down I don't even know what labeling that with to-do would mean which which label should you pick should you pick the the most general one the one from the group or should you pick the most specific the one the one from the project I'm pretty sure you should pick the one from the middle but who knows um so it's kind of a mess it just it's just a sort of historical um artifact because when we added group labels we didn't make it impossible to have a group label on a project label with the same name I think you can't add one way around but you can add the other way around I don't remember exactly which way I think you can add a group label if you've already got a project label with that name but you can't add a project label if you already got a group label with that name and same for subgroups so it's not super clear what it means and also if you move a group from one place to another like you know you kind of want the labels basically I think we should not spend too much time on worrying like about making this perfect as long as it's something you can actually like use so if that's like putting the group name or the project name in the label drop-down if there's more than one then maybe that's what we do like just at the moment it's like unusable like as in literally you can't do anything with those labels um but if we could make it usable but terrible that would be quite a big improvement yeah yeah so it looks like right now when I picked the combined color one it assigns the project one if I'm within the project right I think the problem is if you already have the group label assigned or something like that then you can't unassign any like you can't unassign the label at all but there are separate labels right because when I went to the project labels it showed the group label to do and it showed the project label to do yeah and either one of those it only took me to the list of issues in the project yes so they're the same but but we filter them by label name not by label ID so it doesn't matter which of them they have if you filter the label the issue list you will see both so yeah so so it's super confusing yeah that's that's the point right it yeah the same name it will probably have the same meaning so I mean we're not probably going to do that but why don't we just if you already have a group label with that name why would we even allow people to create the same label at the project label is there any because we did that because we I don't think we'd actually do let you do it that way but we do let you create a group label if you already have a project label with that name um and basically a bunch of people have already done that not a huge amount but some people have already done that so I think some of it's automatic too because I think the reason I even have those duplicates is because I created an issue board with the default labels right yeah that's that's probably true and the other thing is um when you um I forgot what I was gonna say when you before we had group labels if you search for issues of the group level and you wanted to use the label filter we would blend together labels with the same name for exactly that reason like you know you don't want to search by label ID because then you only see issues in one project you want to search by label names you can see all issues with that label name so like Pedro said it's the name that's the important thing but then I mean one solution to this could be just of the the back ends at the front end just pass the name all the time and never pass the ID and just say like add the label to do to this issue remove the label to do from this issue and then it's up to the back end to figure out if there is a relevant label with that name to match and if there is it does it and if there isn't it doesn't um because at the moment it's sort of a weird mix of using the name and the ID um but I don't know like I said I I don't want to get too ambitious here I just want it to be terrible but you can somehow muddle through and get what you want uh yeah and I think you were looking at this as well right with um luka oh again gone never mind he was so in the in the true description the expected expected thing is three different to do labels and a bad solution or a boring solution would be just to add the project name yeah or even just not have the project name would even be boring for um yeah I mean just three different labels even without the project name I think will be kind of boring and still kind of work because if one doesn't work you just pick the next one in the list and then you just pick one after it like just tell them to use different colors for now right so yeah or different names or whatever yeah just use different name yeah yeah so yeah so I think I don't think we intend like from what you were describing char I don't historically I don't think we intended it to be smart but I think because we were so smart and when we built on it it became smart and just combined well maybe the combined colors thing I don't know how that came about but that looks like somebody coded that the combined colors thing but the the fact that it's it's combining labels as of the same name I think that's just a consequence of us showing names and not IDs or yes ID right right yeah it's because we group my name and we also do that on the dashboard which I think I mentioned in the issue but I am not too worried about the dashboard labels this because it's basically unusable pretty much anyway so yeah so so Annabel what I wanted to do and I think Sean is agreeing is that right now there's some weird cases if you look into the description sometimes it's combining and sometimes it's showing three separate I just wanted to make it explicit in the code or in the functionality that every time you assign a label you can the GitLab tells you all three are separate or all five or whatever and then you can click and you can select and deselect any of them and then it's consistently separate and so you can see everything consistently and then an iteration after this is to present where it originates from if we need it and then beyond that then we we look at the searching functionality on a filter bar because when you search on a filter bar you can just search by name but not by ID so you could maybe like search by three different to-dos so how do we handle that I don't know and I don't care at this level and then maybe even further down the road we address all those edge cases where when you're creating a new label does GitLab tell you that you already have one of the same name and validations and stuff like that so I think all those are really far away but if we just address this initial thing that that I have at this issue I think this will go a huge long way to just bringing sanity that what labels are uniquely independent in the database and thus as also presented to the user which it should be. Yeah the only argument I could think of against that was the situation like I said before where you had different project labels but you didn't have group labels at all and you were trying to filter at the group level now we would just say like if you see any results from one project that's because you're using project labels just promote them to group labels if you see results across projects because that's how you do that. Cool so Annabel that was probably way more info than you were expecting. Does that help? Yes and no I need to I need to create some more projects some more labels locally and just see I'm still not clear on these duplicates but I'm gonna play around with it a little bit and then I'll I'll ping you an issue. I have just two questions does anyone know for sure what it where is the the place where the combined colors appear is it on the issue sidebar or epic sidebar or I think it's any way you can have a label drop down so either when you're assigning labels or filtering by labels basically I think any of those can potentially show a mixed color label. Yeah the example I posted was on an issue a project issue and I was just trying to assign a label and they're two different to-dos. Okay so for if if you already have and those to-dos were two labels in the same project with the same name or were they project and group? Project and group and I think that was just an option of creating an issue board in that project and then I don't know when I promoted one to group but yeah I mean I think the separation makes sense but at the same time I don't know if we're actually improving anything we're just doing it differently because you still don't know like other than the colors and if you're colorblind that's even worse but you don't even know where they belong to so you don't know if you're selecting the project or the group or even inside the same project which one is it? I think it's a net improvement Pedro because literally in some cases again feel free to try to generate all the scenarios that are available but at some point I gave up because they're so complicated so be warned but why I think it's a net improvement Pedro is because what I'm proposing as a result of this change at least for any new data you will always be able to add labels and remove labels uniquely right now there's these weird edge cases that you know Luca brought up where you can't you can't even there might be like three to dos on an issue labels three to labels on issue and you can't remove like one of them or two of them or all of them and there's just these weird edge cases where the data is just stuck so what I'm proposing is that you're making it unstuck so you can actually reliably add labels and remove labels on any given object so I think that's got to be a net improvement um even yeah it's awesome definitely yes even and yeah I don't think there's any negative because like the negative is that there's like three to dos instead of one to do but like that's not a negative that's like maybe a lateral movement of understanding right so that's why I think it's a net improvement from that perspective yeah yeah it's it's not a lot but it's a little bit of improvement yeah I just think we should we should try to very quickly have a solution yep yeah to me it's like we're stopping the bleeding as well with this one so yes exactly like stop the bleeding but yeah at the same time yeah exactly let's even if we use the same issue to do it let's just discuss some sure quick ideas to to solve this like I don't know if you select the label instead of an issue it will always be the project label and never the group label if you have the same names or we put we put this the the the path the project in a group paths or something well I think that's what's happening by the way when you select the combined color label it does assign the project label yeah so so that that's good but I don't know why we have the two colors that's the all right uh I think time's up so I will put this on the internet this video and we'll go from there thank you everybody see you all next week


Let's jump in, TikTok. TikTok continues to be in the news. It continues to be threats to ban TikTok in the entire country. I think it's the state of Montana that has now banned TikTok from the state. I'm not sure how that works. I'm not sure if the network's in the state and a lot of it will carry it. If you have it on your phone, is the police gonna ask to search your phone and check to see if you're watching TikTok? I mean, I don't know how you ban TikTok, how that works exactly. VPN's a good way to get around any kind of ban within. I mean, the great internet wall of China hasn't actually managed to restrict the ability of the Chinese to access Google and Facebook and YouTube. But we're expected to believe that the great wall of Montana, Montana and us competing with China on censoring what its citizens can watch.  And it's gonna be interesting to see if this goes to the courts and what happens if it does go to court in the meantime, Josh Hawley and others are loudly advocating for banning TikTok at the federal level, secreting the United States great internet wall where the US government starts telling us what internet services we can and cannot listen to all in the name of, by the way, national security. Cause I know that you guys, your behavior on TikTok has national security implications, what you do on TikTok can really damage and threaten the security of the United States of America. I really don't get it. I don't get how they can get away with it. Good for Rand Paul, who I think is the only senator who's vocally opposed to all this nonsense. This is unquestionably government censorship. There is no national security issue here. The issue has nothing to do with national security. This is all about, I think for people like Josh Hawley, it's all about the quote, social impact of TikTok, the negative social impact of TikTok. They'd love to be able to regulate and control Instagram and other social media as well. This is also a slam against China, anything to go after China and guard them into reaction. TikTok, so they know what videos you watch. They know the cat videos you watch. How is this a national security threat if China has this kind of information? Now, to top all this off, the real effort right now that TikTok is making, working with Oracle. It's U.S. partner, Oracle, the big tech company run by Larry Ellison. They're calling this the Project Texas. Oracle has its silver farm in Texas where TikTok hosts all of U.S. TikTok. What they're working on is for Oracle to have their ability to be able to access, to have full access to source code, algorithm and content moderation material on these servers and to be able to monitor and control the gateways where the data comes in and out and make sure that the data does not go to China. So it'll be interesting to see, this is all in the works. Oracle is working with TikTok to make this happen. It will be really interesting to see if, once Oracle gets access to all of this and actually secures this network and has the ability to prevent the Chinese government from accessing this information or for the information to leave the United States, whether Senator Hawley and JD Vance and I'm sure someone on the left will stop this nonsense of trying to ban TikTok from the U.S. I mean, it would be interesting if Republicans spearheaded the banning of TikTok. I think TikTok has, what, 150 million customers in the U.S. I read a headline somewhere where this would be guaranteed that the Republican Party would lose every election from here until eternity. People don't like it when you take their toys away. Don't take people toys away. Certainly don't take people's CAD videos away. So all of you who are afraid of TikTok and really worried about the Chinese government spying on your video TikTok habits, Oracle, a good old American company, run by Larry Ellison, who is a committed Republican, maybe even free market guy. Oracle is gonna protect you.  Thank you for listening or watching the Iran book show. If you'd like to support the show, we make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me. You get value from listening, you get value from watching, show your appreciation. You can do that by going to iranbookshow.com slash support, by going to Patreon, subscribe star locals and just making a appropriate contribution on any one of those channels. Also, if you'd like to see the Iran book show grow, please consider sharing our content and of course, subscribe, press that little bell button right down there on YouTube so that you get an announcement when we go live and for those of you who are already subscribers and those of you who are already supporters of the show, thank you. I very much appreciate it.


Hey guys right here from movie nerds. We are gonna watch the trailer for the nutcracker in the four Realms the second trailer It looks all right. This is a Christmas movie Also based on the nutcracker of course, but it's done in a more of an anthology movie. I believe. What do you think writer? You excited to watch it? Yeah, it's a bit of a kids movie. I thought he might be excited to watch it Let's get it on. Let's start it right now. Here we go Looks incredible Says Disney the nutcracker in the four Realms November 2nd. What do you think? Look a bit scary for you Let's cancel that because they don't want that to play Yeah, I Think it looks okay It's it's weird because you kind of joining into a Story that you have no idea about I guess because it's it's not really based on what the nutcracker is It's a bit different. Um, but yeah, that's what do you what do you think? You know, it's all right All right, that's not for me. It's not much. I'm not that excited about that. It looks okay We'll see where it goes I guess but so far it doesn't have my ticket sale Joka joka joka. All right, let's probably end of that trailer review trailer Reaction, I'm not that excited about it. Right. It's clearly not that excited about it So I guess until next time we'll catch you nerds in the movies Let us know in the comments what you guys thought about and if you can subscribe and like the video See you guys later


Welcome to JSATV, the Newsroom for Tech and Telecom Professionals. I'm Jamie Scato-Cotaia of JSA here at the Channel Partners Evolution Conference, specifically at the Chorus Communications Lounge, where we are joined by my friend, Mr. Bill Steen. He is the Director of Channel Marketing for Comcast Business. Bill, welcome to JSATV. Thanks. Excited to be here. Thank you. Excited to have you. And there's a lot of buzz on the floor about the Comcast Business Solutions Provider Program. Can you tell us a little bit more there? Yeah, I'd love to. It's about a seven-year-old program, and we're seeing tremendous growth. Comcast Business overall is growing terrifically. We've really been expanding our portfolio and we're releasing awesome opportunities for our partners to expand what they're doing with their customers. Oh, wonderful. And we do understand that there are some unique SDN resources to support your partners in their SDN sales efforts. Can you tell us more specifically about what you're doing with SDN? Yes, would love to. So we have a very aggressive SDN strategy overall. We have a product called ActiveCore, which is actually our portfolio of services that will fall underneath our SDN strategy. The first product is SDN. So we're able to provide our partners and their customers with technology that enables them to do MPLS replacement, hybrid networks, or really being able to help those customers move into a better bandwidth situation for their applications, have better control over their network, and really be able to manage the visibility of that network. Unbelievable, and everyone is talking about SDN and how to make their networks smarter and more secure and it seems like your offering could be a total sell for them. Absolutely. I was just reading an analyst study that was saying that they were expecting about 80% compound annual growth rate for SDN right now. So customers are asking for it. They know that they're getting a better bang for their buck. It's giving them better application performance. We think that Comcast has a unique value prop because we don't have a Layer 3 MPLS solution currently. So everything we're doing is net new and it's a wide open opportunity for the partners. Amazing. And so what do you consider this might be a redundant question? What do you consider as your top service offering for this year or next? Yeah, I think Comcast made its name for itself in data and we just launched a new brand campaign called Beyond Fast because we really believe that the partner community and the customer community goes, wow, those guys have great high speed reliable internet service over coax or over fiber. But really, we're a full portfolio provider. We have great voice solutions. We have cloud connectivity. We have security. We have networking. We've got a lot of different things. So I think our best selling product is probably Metro Ethernet fiber and really providing data to customers through their partners. But then as we move into the future, we'll be adding VNFs or virtual network functions into that active core platform so that if the customer needs more security capabilities, firewalls, threat management, session border controllers, those can all be virtualized. And instead of putting in different boxes for each one of those functions, it's one box and it's software. It's much easier to manage. So 2019 is all about your VNFs or any other little tidbits that you can tease? I can't share too much. That's common, but there's a lot of new things on the roadmap, but I can share that the VNFs are going to be a big opportunity for our partners. Awesome. Awesome. We will definitely keep an eye out. Of course, Comcast Business, a name, a brand that you trust that you love here with us in studio and with a lot of news to report. So thank you so much for joining us. It's great to have you today. Thank you viewers for tuning in to JSA TV. Happy networking. Thank you.


Gil Dowd's name is synonymous with old-time radio programming that originated from West Coast studios in the late 1940s and 1950s. Dowd's roots stretch halfway across the country, however, to Winona, Minnesota, where he was born, on March 1, 1914. His birth name, Giles Budlong Dowd, Jr., would eventually be shortened to the professional name that is so familiar to hobbyists today. After just one year of college, Dowd ended up in the radio business. His earliest known work was at L.A.'s K.H.J., working as a sound effects artist and writer for Calling All Cars before the outbreak of World War II. After being discharged from the armed services, Dowd turned again to radio script writing and attached his name to some of the most memorable series of all time. Upon taking over the adventures of Sam Spade in 1947, Dowd found himself teamed with Bob Tallman, who became his collaborator for the next two years, not only on Spade, but also on the voyage of the Scarlet Queen. Gil Dowd's scripts were also used on series such as Fort Laramie, Gunsmoke, and Suspense. He was beginning to find more work in motion pictures and television throughout the 1950s when he died from hepatitis at the young age of 43 on December 17, 1957.


Personal Identifiable Information, PII, is any information that can be used to identify an individual such as your phone number or social security number. Here are some ways sailors can protect their PII while at home and at work. Service members can safeguard their PII by practicing good cybersecurity at home and at work. That's generally the source which most PII's revealed these days. It can also be revealed by dumpster diving, people looking through people's trash, if you leave an envelope laying in the trash untreaded, that can be taken by anybody and used for anything. But also on the computer it means having a strong network, especially a home network, having strong passwords, and having different passwords for all your different accounts. For more information about PII visit the Operation Security Facebook page.


My name is Juliana Chan, I'm the Chief Executive Officer of Wild Type Media Group and a science communicator based in Singapore. We are here today to discuss an unfolding situation that of a novel coronavirus, the Wuhan virus. It is named because it first appeared in December in a seafood market in Wuhan, the largest city in Hebei province in central China, with a population of 11 million. So it has been compared to SARS, which caused the deaths of nearly 650 people across mainland China. And today, we have already had more than 570 cases and 17 reported deaths. Just today, a few hours ago, Singapore where I'm from announced its first confirmed case. So we have three experts with us today to help us put in context the unfolding situation. On my left, we have Dr Jeremy Farah, Director of the Wellcome Trust in the UK. Next, we have Dr Richard Hatchett, Chief Executive Officer of SAPI, which stands for Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness and Innovations. And finally, we have Mr Stefan Bancel, Chief Executive Officer of Moderna, a US-based biotech company. So I'll start with trying to understand what we are dealing with right now. And for that, Jeremy and Richard, could you kindly tell us what we know now of the virus and what do we expect to happen next? Yeah, thanks very much and thanks to everybody for joining. Just back to a little bit so you can appreciate what I'm going to say. I am a infectious disease person by background, worked very, very closely with China during the SARS outbreak and spent 20 years living in Vietnam but working very closely with many countries in the region. That's my background of where I come from. This infection which has come about from the beginning of December started, as you say, in an animal market in Wuhan and probably was a virus that was infecting animals. Most likely, I think, bats in that market and it crossed the species barrier and it came into infecting humans after working or visiting that market. Subsequently, through the month of December and then the early days of January, that infection spread from animal to human but then most importantly from human to human and now we are sort of the end of January so we are about six weeks into this outbreak. This virus can now clearly spread between humans. It's spread by the respiratory tract. That means that somebody with symptoms would have a cough, a sore throat and would pass it to somebody else by coughing or sneezing in the same way that influenza is spread around people. It is not SARS. The virus is in a similar family to SARS but this looks different to SARS and the difference is probably it's easier to pass between human beings. SARS was quite difficult to pass between humans and people were most infectious when they had symptoms and therefore it was relatively easy to bring the epidemic under control. When the infection spreads between humans easily, it's actually very difficult to bring the epidemic under control and so there's a very big difference between SARS and what we believe we know about this virus so far. The infection is now spreading, of course, across China and many cities in China have reported cases. Indeed, Singapore reported a case and other countries have and I think we can expect that there will be many more cases in China and that there will be many more cases in other parts of the world. I would stress also in comparison with SARS that the infectious rate will probably mean in the long term that it will cause fewer people will die, 10% of people died in SARS. I suspect the mortality rate with this infection will be lower than that as it spreads to a much wider population. So what we have is a broader infection with probably a less marked percentage of people dying but that is in some ways from a public health perspective is harder to deal with. We can't predict the future and we're living in a period of great uncertainty at the moment because we don't have all the information we need. China recognised this, it shared the information very quickly, that was different to SARS and therefore it alerted the world to this outbreak happening. That would not have happened maybe 10 or 20 years ago and we should congratulate China in the way they've been open and sharing the information. The future, the world has got to think about how we can prepare now by developing vaccines. Richard will talk about that, drugs that may counter this infection but also what we can do at a public health and societal level to try and prevent the epidemic spreading further than it might otherwise do. Thank you, Jeremy. Do you have any points to add? I think Jeremy has given a terrific summary of what we know. I would like to underscore what we don't currently know and what makes it very difficult, as Jeremy is saying, to prognosticate the future. We do not have a detailed understanding of infectiousness. We are inferring a lot from the numbers of cases and I think Jeremy's inferences are strong but we have to recognise that we don't know anything with certainty yet. We don't understand the transmission dynamics of the disease. We don't understand yet the severity of the disease. It is very difficult during a period when the number of cases is increasing exponentially to make inferences about the severity to understand what the mortality rate actually is. We don't know the number of cases. We don't know the extent of spread. This is all critical information that will inform the needs required to bring the outbreak under control and I am sure that Chinese authorities are digging as quickly and deeply as they can to understand all of these factors and so over the next several weeks and even months we will have a greater understanding of all of these issues and it will help us tailor and target our response appropriately. By point of comparison, in 2009 I was working in the White House helping orchestrate the pandemic response to H1N1. We knew by the end of April that the virus that was spreading H1N1 was going to cause a global pandemic. We did not have an accurate estimate of severity until August and that was with a virus that was reasonably well understood from the beginning and very intensively studied so many of these answers may not become available in the time fashion that we would all like and we're going to have to make decisions under ambiguity and uncertainty and we're going to have to make decisions that have potentially very significant cost. We are seeing that currently in China with some of the decisions about travel restrictions and we as an organization, CEPI, we were set up to fund vaccine development. Vaccine development is a very expensive undertaking but if we don't take steps now, we won't have the vaccines in a time fashion. Thank you, Richard. So Jeremy, this is for you. So I'm Singaporean Chinese and you may be aware that on Saturday is the first day of Chinese New Year is warrensing in Tui. So hundreds of millions of Chinese people around the world will be traveling to either go home or visit loved ones. We know that they have already locked down the city of Wuhan and others as well. Are countries taking enough precautionary measures? What else must we be doing? No, I do know it's China. I was born in Singapore so I am ingrained in that. In many ways, this outbreak so often happens, couldn't be happening at a worse time. I mean, in Chinese New Year, I believe I'm right in saying about 450 million people will be traveling in China alone than many people in the region and then globally. During the pandemic of 2009, which Richard refers to when we started working together in some ways, we did some work in Vietnam when I was living at the time, travel restrictions are in very important sense that the authorities are doing something. It's a very important statement to communities that this is serious. The actual impact of travel restrictions, at least in my opinion, are not going to be the answer. Firstly, you can't stop everybody traveling. If you stop people traveling, they often find other ways to travel that may be not so obvious. And in the end, if I were infectious now with no symptoms, I could pass it on even though you may not know I was sick. So travel restrictions can buy you a bit of time and that's very important to do.  But in the end, you have to use that time to put in place the critical public health interventions that you need because travel restrictions on their own will not stop this epidemic moving. Thank you. So on that note, I think Richard, it's a good time to talk about CEPI because it was launched three years ago right here in Davos in the shadow of the Ebola outbreak in West Africa. So what is CEPI's response to Wuhan virus and what is on the research agenda? CEPI, the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations was established by global public health authorities. Jeremy played an important role with others in setting CEPI up and was funded by a number of philanthropic organizations in sovereign countries for exactly this kind of event. It was set up to develop vaccines against diseases like Ebola that we know about and to be prepared for the next unknown disease, the next epidemic, so that we could respond rapidly. So CEPI is focused exclusively on vaccines and we have been working very aggressively over the last couple of weeks to assess the situation first, to try to make determinations about what steps are appropriate and as the epidemiologic situation has unfolded our sense of what we need to do has become more clear and our sense that we need to move faster and move farther perhaps has also become more clear. Today we can announce, in fact this is the first time that we've announced this, three partnerships to develop vaccines against the novel coronavirus. Two, with partners that CEPI already works with. One, a company called Inovio that will manufacture a DNA vaccine. A second with the University of Queensland that will manufacture a recombinant subunit vaccine. And the third, a new partnership in fact, but one we've contemplated for quite a long time with Moderna and with the U.S. National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases to develop an mRNA vaccine against the novel coronavirus. Our hope is to have these vaccines developed very rapidly and to move them rapidly into human clinical trials perhaps as early as the summer. And I would like to give Stefan a chance to talk about his program. Thank you, Richard. Stefan, maybe you could share with us about this vaccine and when we can expect it. Good, so thank you again for having me and having the company. So let me maybe say a few words about Moderna so you understand what we're trying to do here. So Moderna is a biotechnology company based in the U.S. And what we're trying to do with the U.S. government through NIH and with CEPI is to use our technology to help. So Moderna, what we do is we make mRNA medicines which is of course a new technology where we inject basically instruction into humans for humans to make their own medicine using your own machinery of yourselves to make your own protein as medicine. The company currently has 16 clinical trials around the world including with global companies like Merck or MSD on the side of the world, AstraZeneca and others. We are in oncology, in cardiology, in rare genetic disease, in autoimmune disease. And of course the topic of today infectious disease vaccine. So far we have started nine clinical studies around the world for infectious disease vaccines. We have those more than a thousand people and we've done a few viruses like pandemic flu viruses, H10S7, RSV and also HMPVP IV. So if you think about mRNA, the very interesting thing for fast response is that mRNA is a platform. And that provides the potential for two benefits. One is efficacy because if you think about it by using the human cells to make the protein of a virus which is how a vaccine mechanism works, we are trying to mimic a natural infection but without giving the virus.  If you look at traditional vaccine technologies, they take a lot of time to develop because every product is unique. In our case because we have an information-based molecule, messenger RNA. It's the same technology that we use for flu vaccines that have already been in the clinic or Zika vaccine that we are testing in the clinic with Bada, U.S. agency, or the project that we are working on for this new virus. So it provides a speed to get very quickly clinical grade material so that you can start quickly clinical trial. So if you think about the company, our number one focus in vaccine of course is to develop commercial vaccine for viruses for which there is no vaccine on the market today. And a good example is CMV, C2 megalovirus, which is now in phase two in the U.S. that's one of our products for a very important virus that affects birth defects. And so what we've always wanted since we started this company is to say because it's a platform and because of what I describe as potential benefits, it would be a very nice tool for emerging pathogen. And so we've always partnered since we started the company with government agency like Bada, which is part of the Secretary of Health in the U.S., or DARPA, which is part of the Department of Defense, so partnership with the Gates Foundation. And we're very, of course, pleased today and honored to be partnering with CEP to join forces. And so the project here is we are providing the technology to help. And so the design of the vaccine has been done over the last few weeks at the NIH in the U.S. because they have access to the sequence of virus. As Jeremy said, the U.S. government got access very quickly to the sequence, which, of course, is very important information to start making a product. Without that, you cannot do that. Stefan, do we have a timeline on this? We don't have a timeline yet because this is an endeavor that has never been done before. Trying to go so fast for a vaccine has never been done before. But we have never done it on a compressed time that we are doing now, which is why we need to work together. The U.S. government is helping us doing the design because we have great expertise there. What we are doing is we're going to make the product quality clinical grade material thanks to the support of CEP. CEP is actually funding this, and I would like to give a lot of kudos to the CEP organization because I reached out on Monday. And by this morning, the agreement was in place, formally signed between both organizations, which is really remarkable. As Richard said, we have been talking for a long time. We know CEP well and they know Moderna very well. And then we will provide this material to the NIH who will be running the clinical study. Thank you. Thank you. That's terrific updates. At this point, I would like to open it up to the floor. Do we have any questions from the audience, please? Okay. The three of you will collect three questions. Please introduce yourself and give us a short, sharp question. Thank you. Thank you. So I'm a journalist from China's ties media. My question is to Dr. Farer and Mr. Hatchet because you mentioned that maybe the imposition of travel restrictions might not work because people might still try to find ways to go out and in of the city. Is it because that Wuhan is so large, it has more than 10 million residents that this measure's effectiveness might decrease? And because such measures on such a city of such large scale has never been imposed, but do you think there's any historical presidents that we can, that Wuhan can use and other cities who has been shut down can use to ensure that public panic won't escalate and we have enough resources and necessities to provide to the Wuhan people? Thank you. Thank you. And the next question from this gentleman. I'll collect a few. Thank you. My name is Zichuan. I'm with China's Xinhua news agency, the state news agency. I was wondering, Mr. Hatchet said you have started three partnerships to develop the vaccines, which is of enormous importance to the Chinese people right now. How confident are you? You are going to start the human trial, in the summer. Could you give us a more explicit timeline on this? How confident are you? You are able to do this. Have you been, I mean, talking or working with any Chinese authorities of government health authorities? Thank you very much. Maybe the third question, and then we'll answer. This is from Xinhua as well. I'd like to know is there any risk of the short transmission due to the block of city? And any suggestions can you offer to the government in terms of making sure that the local treatment capacities and resources are sufficient? I'd like to pull forward the question to Mr. Farah and Mr. Hatchet as well. Thank you. I think we'll start with the travel restrictions and historical experience. Maybe see you. I think Jeremy is deferring to me. This is actually a topic that we looked at intensively. Just as part of my own background, I also helped the U.S. develop its national pandemic preparedness plan in 2005 and 2006. And the stimulus for that was avian influenza, H5N1, a flu that had a very high mortality rate. And we faced a prospect at that time of facing a virus with a high mortality rate when we had no other controlled interventions. And so the only, in such circumstances, truly the only thing that you have are non-pharmaceutical interventions, including travel restrictions, but also including cancelling mess gatherings and closing transit systems and closing schools. At that time, we devised a, we looked at how could you have those interventions implemented in a way that maximized their benefit and minimized the cost. And we developed a approach that we called community mitigation interventions. And CDC published guidance on this several years ago. There is a literature, which I would certainly encourage Chinese authorities to evaluate and review, and certainly would be happy to talk with them about that, although that's not my current job. I do think one thing that's important to understand is that when you don't have treatments and you don't have vaccines, non-pharmaceutical interventions are literally the only thing that you have. And it's a combination of isolation, containment, infection prevention and control, and then these social distancing interventions. There is historical precedent for their use. We looked intensively, did an intense analysis of the use of non-pharmaceutical interventions in U.S. cities during 1918. And what we found was that cities that introduced multiple interventions early in an epidemic had much better outcomes. And the challenge, of course, is it's very difficult to sustain these interventions because they impose enormous costs. And they also can produce enormous anxiety among the affected populations. It is actually the reason why it's so important to move quickly to develop things like vaccines. Thank you, Richard. I think the question from Tsinghua is what are some of the efforts with China on this? How are you collaborating with China? Sure. So members of my staff do have, through their personal professional networks, many of them come out of a biotech or pharmaceutical background. We do have connections with Chinese companies and with public sector officials. Dr. George Gao, who's known to all of you who knows the Chinese environment and the current director of China's CDC, in fact served on CEPI's Scientific Advisory Committee. So we have reached out. We are in discussions, but those discussions are not as mature as the partnerships that I announced today. Okay, we can take a couple more questions. Oh, very quickly on the timeline. So the timelines that I mentioned of potentially getting the vaccines into clinical trials in the summer. Dr. Fauci from NIAID also mentioned that timeline with respect to the Moderna program. Those certainly depend on the development programs going well. I think they are our best estimate of how quickly we could feasibly get there if we don't encounter roadblocks. It will also be very important for our regulatory partners to work with us to help us understand what exactly is required before we can move vaccines into clinical trials. The advantage of the platform technologies is that they have been with the same platform, different vaccines, but the same platform have already been in humans, both for Moderna and for Inovio, one of our other partners. So we think that will expedite the ability to move these into clinical trials. More questions? This lady on the right. Maybe we'll take both. Just first of all, how concerned are you with the Chinese New Year on the way? What other, what else, if you were advising China, what other precautions could they take? Obviously we've got two more cases in Hong Kong as well. Hong Kong has learned from SARS, but what else could China do? And lastly, why is this particular infection causing so much panic? Maybe the next question. And speaking to... So yesterday there were 448 cases of which 102 were defined as severe or critical, which is actually about a quarter. So coming back to the how, you know, how... We cannot know what the case fatality rate is, which, if you know, was 10% for SARS and up to 37% for MERS, but MERS was less widespread. But this looks, this could be actually what we're looking at, up to 25%. If we assume that, we know that people take a long time, days, if not weeks, to actually die from a disease. And we're looking at the comorbidities that are existing, diabetes, hypertension, coronary artery, these usual suspects. In addition, the confluence of... This is a pathogen which targets the lungs in a fairly polluted environment in the middle of winter with considerable other pathogens. And we wouldn't... I'm just trying to understand the dimension of the spectrum that we're looking at and not wanting to downplay or over. Yeah, so as Richard said, when you're in these circumstances and you do not have drugs specific and you do not have vaccines, you're reliant on classic public health measures. And what that means is hand-washing and social distancing and, yes, hand-washing travel, where it's at all appropriate, masks. And the earlier you do that within a city, the more chance you have for reducing. But what it does effectively is buy you some time to do the other things that are going on, including the vaccine development. Why panic? Well, the world has sort of been prepared. Really, sort of, if you like, sort of getting ready for something like this, really, since SARS, 18 years ago. And SARS left really deep scars on particularly the Asian and Toronto systems. And of course, we had the pandemic. So whenever you see an animal virus coming across humans, passing between humans and causing both mild and severe disease, of course, the world is now really primed to know about that. And inevitably, that causes a degree of panic. I don't think you can over... We don't want to overstate the panic here because there is so much uncertainty. And we want to keep a sort of calm, moderated approach to it. But we do have to take this incredibly seriously because you don't often get an animal virus coming to humans, passing between humans and being spread by the respiratory route. It's what Richard and I and many others would have been frightened of for the last decade. The only thing I'd say on severity and case fatality rates, and this is just a general statement across all of these epidemics, going back to all of them, including NIPA that I've been involved in since 1999, in the main, at the beginning of the epidemic, you see the more severe end of the spectrum. There are the people that seek hospital care. There are the people that seek intensive care. And that usually dominates your early. You can't tell for some weeks, actually, until you see the full spectrum of illness quite how severe the spectrum is. And at the moment, we're in that period of uncertainty. Yes, 25% of the moment of the people may have had severe disease or be dying. We don't know what that really means in terms of the denominator in the population that has the infection, how many severe, and how many are dying. And we could all guess, but it would be a guess, as Richard said earlier. We sort of have to live at the moment with that degree of uncertainty and not be intimidated by it. With one-off time, uncertainty is the last word we heard. I would like to thank our three speakers and our experts for joining us today at the issue briefing room. Thank you very much for joining us today. Thank you.


Alright you guys what is going on? Welcome back to another video today's video. I'm extremely excited about I really am We're gonna get back into some rugby Rugby is my game It is that's the game that I've played my entire life Recently I've been getting into football as you guys know but rugby, you know still holds that place in my heart And it always will and before I start I need to give a shout out to my man Well, I actually don't know his first name, but He's got a reaction channel called the Matthews fan and I don't know if it's all reactions But he you know he does all sorts of stuff anyways He started doing reactions to rugby players or to rugby games as an NFL fan Okay, so that's why I came across a channel because he started copying my title But doing it on the other way around anyway, I've got to give him credit. He stopped doing that He's called it my reaction now and that's given me a bit of inspiration to most probably change my name Of my reactions to from rugby player reacts to either Jake's reactions or Jacob's reactions or my reactions Let me know what you guys think about that But this morning I knew this I knew this game was being played Canterbury versus Auckland The Matthews fan has already done a reaction to it.  He wants to grow his channel. He's doing well. He's got a nice setup So I want to say if any of you guys want to support him go and support his channel Let him know on the on the latest video. Let him know on the Auckland versus Canterbury video that You know that you've come over from my channel or whatever anyways I want to watch this game. This guy in America has watched it already and I haven't Okay, Canterbury is where I'm from Canterbury, New Zealand So we've got the final of the New Zealand National Provincial Championship Which is a national competition played between 10 teams I think they call it the ITM Cup now ITM Cup and ITM is like a Bunnings warehouse.  That's just the sponsor. So it's called ITM Cup Canterbury my hometown. Okay, all of my childhood rugby heroes play for Canterbury They have been they have won it. I think the last six or seven years in a row now that doesn't happen By chance. Okay, Canterbury rugby if you want to follow a team a clinical structured team That's been at the top of their game for over 20 years Follow Canterbury in the ITM Cup or the Canterbury Crusaders in the Super Rugby That's all I got to say But without further ado It's time for me to watch my first ITM Cup game of the year and it's the final So what better way what you know what better time to start? Let's do this. Let's look it up 2018 ITM Cup final Now I don't know how many of these players. I'm still gonna recognize if I do recognize some I'm doing well Like I'm not even gonna lie So, uh, where are we here? Can canterbury vs. Auckland premiership final highlights there we go and if we go to The Matthews fam Lamar There he is my man. See look an hour ago premiership final all converse Canterbury my reaction I gotta go. I've got to give you credit. I've got to give you credit But I can't watch your reaction before I do my own. I'm sorry It's my turn Eden Park The all blacks were unb I think they're still unbeaten at Eden Park for like the last 20 years Just let me look up ITM Cup winners Let me have a look here. I just want to make sure I was right about Canterbury Here we go 2008 Canterbury 2009 Canterbury 10 Canterbury 11 Canterbury 12 Canterbury 13 Canterbury 14 Taranaki 15 Canterbury 16 Canterbury 17 Canterbury.  Oh, they're gonna have to check that one Penalty try They must have collapsed it So as the two groups are forwards, we're pushing up against each other It's called a mall. Okay, Canterbury. We're going like this. They want to get over the trial line Auckland coming back the other way There's certain rules as to where the Auckland players and the Canterbury players can actually enter that ruck They need to come around the back. Okay, and I think this guy Iwani came in from the side to try and you know, stop Canterbury And that's why he was sent off and it was a penalty try So they score to try they got five points. They got the kick now They're at seven and this guy is is in the bin for ten minutes So Auckland have 14 players and Canterbury have 15 Spies the gap got the pace. He's not big is he?   Oh, that's nice. I want to see where the inside players started coming up There is there is right there. It's good. I don't know if he expected him to be there or not But a nice try second half 20 to 7 Boomer With the boomer downfield and he's gonna take a quick throw. Let's go Auckland. Show us what you got. Where you going? nowhere Dangerous tackle and again. Oh, no back for the penalty another yellow card So now Canterbury's got 14 Billy Harman no idea Stucks his head and over and the rain doesn't make it easy man. It's not make it easy to play It means passes are shorter You know, there's more penalties, there's more knock-ons. There's more stoppages Personally if I'm watching game of rugby I like crystal clear blue sky Perfect cup grass, you know 20 25 degrees Celsius the ball is gonna fly through the air There's gonna be no handling errors.  It's soaking. Oh Oh See oh He's down again, and he's isolated get in there Canterbury get the ball Auckland more isolated 26 12 No bang off the right and he's through easy Bang see ya 20 phases.  See they said 20 phases are up That means that Auckland each phase is a tackle. Okay, so the player gets tackled after release release the ball your players blow over the top They retain the ball the halfback comes along and passes it out again each one of those tackles is a phase in rugby You just keep going until someone makes a mistake or the balls turned over so Canterbury defended 20 times in a row before that before that try was made So that means that they're tired, you know Tackles are gonna start falling off if the ball if the ball carrier Auckland in that case keeps the ball for long enough They're bound to break through eventually and that's that's the thing about rugby Cardio man cardio consistency. It's a hard game Four on three and it's a try see I knew it was gonna happen. Look guys You can see it. You can see it right there. Okay. You got one off the back two three four Against this guy who's gonna break off the scrum two and three so it's a simple pass pass Pass and he's in Pitch pitch pitch lateral lateral lateral and he's in Now why could you not do that off of a Off of a scrimmage, you know have four running backs lined up out one way and just go pass pass pass. I don't know Harry plumber no idea. This is your time to shine mate, and he's got it 26 all Man 26 all eight seconds to go Auckland are in position to win it What's gonna happen? Time's up.  They're gonna take a drop goal Go canabry go boys. Oh, no, he's dropped it again. It's the weather extra time Great. Oh now canabres in a position come on boys clinical. This is what you do Yes Through Tom Sanders course Tom Sanders another name I haven't heard of Man, so it's 10 minutes extra time Aucklander about It's gonna go to a second extra time. I've been playing for 90 minutes. He'll be so tired Why didn't we see the Auckland try? We didn't even see how they won all we just saw it is it at 33 all and now It's 40 33 Okay, you tell me how that works What an anti-climax? Oh Well good on your Auckland you deserve to win The next video we're gonna watch is another another rugby one We're gonna watch the other game that was played over the weekend that I really wanted to see which is New Zealand versus Australia for the third match of three Which is actually played in Japan believe it or not over the weekend so We're gonna talk about that in the next video. I won't go on. This has been enough Auckland well done the 2018. Oh It's not even ITM. It's called my to 10 car. It's not the ITM cup anymore It's the my to 10 cup which is Another sponsor, but it's a very similar sort of store hardware timber Garden stuff, you know Anyways guys if you have liked this video, please press like if you want to subscribe, please do And I'll see you in the next one


All right, I can finally get to your shots and apologize for the delay. I'll I'll let you know in the email what happens Let me take a look at this one. So that's the church planning It's neat. So for you I'm sure which one to start with I'm sure about the length and pacing of the church shot Yeah, I was gonna say This is given that it stepped like from here to here. It's going to go a lot longer Lot longer We're also a bit too high up in frame And this seems like a crazy crazy wide lens as well And again, it's gonna take a long time to get there. It feels like you can It's like almost you can take another bench set back there He comes in has a couple of hesitations and then kind of goes to the last one, right? He's already kind of not sure if he's supposed to be there. So to me it's okay And it saves you time to to he would sit in the back to not be all exposed And you know imagine there would be other people sitting there So it saves you time you can go straight to this so you can cut out this and go straight to that But you know, that would be like the entrance was right there and he just goes straight to that first bench To imagine this is the first bench the doors right there, you know, if I don't that makes sense Saves you a lot of time and in that way you can focus on this and extend this shot a bit Well, you know He doesn't know what to do and you might look around a bit and really really focus like you you sell his hesitation and maybe nervousness or guilt and all that in his walk already how he enters looks around and Decides to sit back there and then we can really see it in his face What's going on? Maybe you can play up some tattoos or something, but I think that it would be kind of cool I mean, I don't mind that And you're talking about performance in this one Those are so cute so cute my concern here is that this goes a again too fast I think you could play up this thing a bit where the bowl comes in like we know we're not quite sure what this bowl is You know, it's almost like you want to hide the kid I'm sure how you do that because we see him right away But my initial response to this was wouldn't be really cute if we see this kind of wiggle around wiggle around and it's almost like Like timing wise just a bit different where you know, it's going on. Oh, it's the kid and Puts the thing down Gets up. That's cute. I mean you need some more time here to get obviously from there to there Go up there That makes this look like it's paper So you have to really work on the struggle from here to here He might just pull it and it might get dipped down a bit and roll over that edge to get there and then You know, maybe he snuggles closer. It's almost as if it's his pet. Like, oh, yes, I got all my stuff here And then you can really play into digging into that ball which almost makes it tip a bit and You know, and it can almost be like he gets up there and he has maybe shoulders are a bit higher and Then I mean, you know be cool if you had some lights that flicker so we can we know he's watching TV I'm I know he's watching TV but you know They could be a remote somewhere here or something and some light flickering so we can tell that he's looking at a screen That's your case there And then as he eats and eats his shoulders Group down a bit more and he relaxes himself at one is really like This is cool So otherwise here once you get to here, it's just a repeat, right? You're just doing the same thing over and over so you want some progression where it gets in there He's settled close enough Maybe a bit tense I'm ready ready and the more he eats and the more he watches this thing the more he relaxes You know, his feet can kind of come out a bit more everything just kind of Relaxes and he stuffs himself in there. Let me put his hand on his belly or something And then maybe at the very end, you know, like you could have a bit of a Look back cheeks are full a little bit of a laughs He spits a bit some of the popcorn out because something happened that you're just watching make make some giggle or make some laugh You know some punch line at the very end that finishes it on a cute little acting moment Yeah, I think that would be it I Know they're both cool the different emotions, right? There's different different type of things you're gonna show off. So it's kind up to you which one you want to do I'm fine with both Yeah, I don't let me know. Thank you All right, there's an email you can sign up you can start whenever you want you can submit whatever you want You get 16 submissions either way the like and subscribe would be awesome. All right. Thank you