Good morning and welcome to Vermont House Judiciary Committee. It is Thursday, May 20th, and we'll be starting with S3, which is actually leading to insanity and competency to stand trial. Just by a little bit of background, the House passed S3 last week, just last week, and it went back to the Senate. And I thought we were finished with the bill, but I looked at the Senate's calendar, I think it was probably Tuesday night and noticed that there was a further instance of amendment and asked legislative counsel as well as some of our colleagues in health health care and health institutions, questions and institutions that we've been working with to take a look at the Senate language as it was coming over to us to see if we could concur with that because that would be our next step of action. And there were sections there that at this point we could not concur with. So yesterday, again, some of us from Judiciary as well as the other two committees met with Ledge Council and had a proposed amendment, further instance of amendment, that I hope the committee will support and that we will recommend to the House. And that is what Attorney Katie McLean is here to walk us through as well as give us a sort of a high level understanding of what the Senate did pass. And it's actually on our notice calendar today. But I'm hopeful that we could take it off the get real suspension to get it off the notice calendar because it is a very, very important bill to many of us. So with that, good morning, Katie. Welcome. Good morning. Thank you. Katie McLean office of legislative counsel. So can you remind me, is it okay if I share a document or share my screen in this committee? That's fine. That's fine. Okay. Yeah, thank you. So I will pull up. I've put together a side by side summary. And I thought for our purposes this morning, this might be the best way to kind of see quickly the changes that the Senate made to the House version of the bill. So just to kind of show you where we are, this column is the as past House version. So this is what the bill looks like when it left the House. And then yesterday, the Senate adopted a concurrence with for with further proposal of amendment. And that's what is in this last column. So if you remember, the House added many members of the to the forensic care working group, and they removed the House removed representative of BGS, the Senate's proposal added that representative of BGS back in. Next, actually, excuse me, Katie, I'm sorry, Representative Marcy has her hand up. Oh, I just wondered if that this document could be emailed to me please. It shows the differences. Sir, I can do that. That would be great. Thank you. Okay. Let's see. I could do it when I'm after I'm done sharing my screen or maybe Evan is able to do it now. Evan is able to do it now. Thank you so much. Thank you. And I and I also if they're not posted already, they will be posted to our website, but I think they're they're posted on our committee page. So thank you. Go ahead, Katie. Thank you. Thank you. So the next piece of this section six was a study that looked at the overlap in the mental health and criminal justice systems. And the the original Senate version had kind of a one time report back in the house as you remember changed the structure and created more of a tiered decision making process with a first and second preliminary report and then a final report on a number of particular components. And kind of the concept behind that was particularly with regard with a forensic treatment facility determining whether a facility was needed before looking at you know the size and scope of such a program and facility. So the Senate changed that structure. And instead of having two preliminary report backs before the final report, there's only one preliminary report. And the focus of that preliminary report wasn't providing recommendations, as was the House version. It was just to give a summary of the work to date. So both the first preliminary report that came out of the House version and the only preliminary report that came out of the Senate version both have the same due date of January 15, 2022. However, the final report date was different between the two. So the House version had a due date of September 15, whereas the Senate version that was adopted yesterday had a due date of August 1. And then with regard to some of the specific components in the report, there were changes. For example, the House version asked that the work group look at any gaps in the current mental health and criminal justice system structure. And then the Senate added related to individuals incompetent to stand trial or who are adjudicated not guilty by reason of insanity. Also, in the House version, there was a component about looking at competency restoration models that Senate and their amendment chose to remove that from this particular report structure and have it stand on it by itself as its own standalone report with a later due date in 2023. The House, the Senate accepted many of the changes that were made in the House with regard to the different components of this mental health and criminal justice report. However, with regard to forensic treatment facilities, the House had added language, excuse me, not facilities, but models for forensic treatment. The House had added language including inpatient community based or other treatment models. And instead the Senate sent back models for forensic treatment, including the size, scope and fiscal impact of any treatment facility. So again, that's sort of the piece where we're removing that tiered decision making. And instead of assessing whether there's a necessity for a facility, including as part of the ongoing report, what would a facility look like? What does it need to have to be functional in Vermont? And then there was Senate, excuse me, House language about additional recommendations and it had qualifying language and the Senate removed that to just say any additional recommendations. So I think we've already covered. Excuse me. Representative Marcia, your hand has been up. I just want to make sure you don't have any questions. I'm sorry, I didn't get it down. That's what I thought. Okay, thank you. And I still have not received from Evan the document. I just sent it a minute ago. I had to download the document myself for some technical things behind. Thank you. Okay. So we pretty much already covered this forensic treatment facility piece. The House had a second preliminary report focused on whether a facility is necessary. The Senate deleted that in their proposal yesterday. There was language in the House version and in the Senate version, but a standalone report on notice to prosecutors regarding orders of non-hospitalization. The Senate kept that language. Again, we've already covered this for the competency restoration models. It's now in the Senate version in its own standalone report that's due January 15th, 2023. And then really the rest of Section 6 was the same. There are a few little technical changes to make the different pieces work, but substantively the remaining sections were the same of the Senate proposal. The biggest difference was in Section 7. So the House version of the bill added two members to the Joint Legislative Justice Oversight Committee, one member from the House Health Care Committee and one senator at large. And the Senate deleted that whole section, meaning that the committee would stay the size that it currently is. So those are the changes that came to you from the Senate yesterday. So I'll stop sharing this document. And if you'd like, I can jump to the latest language with the House proposal if that will work. Thank you. I'm not seeing any hands. Thank you. Okay. So this is the proposal on the table right now from the House to go back to the Senate. And I've highlighted the changes to kind of give you a sense of what the moving pieces are. So as you remember, the Senate yesterday added a rep from BGS back in that has been accepted by the House in this version and that language remains. And then we move into the language about this criminal justice, mental health kind of structure report. You'll see that the August 1st date that came over from the Senate was accepted. And then we move into the different components of what would be included in this report. So noteworthy here, remember that the Senate took this competency restoration model piece to get out of this report and had it as a standalone report that was coming in at a separate date in 2023. This is back in the big report that's due in 2022. So that has been moved. Much of the language changes have been accepted here, including limiting subdivision 8H to any additional recommendations. In G, the language that the Senate sent over about forensic models for forensic treatment, including size, scope and fiscal impact of a facility has been accepted. However, there's an sort of an extra layer on this particular piece that we'll get to, which is why it's highlighted to kind of draw your attention there. So, Katie, so this is the final report. And I just I wanted to make sure committee members and others who are watching understand that this is the final report. And the way it's structured is that we look at the final report first, and then we'll look at reports that are submitted before that. So I want folks to keep that in mind. Thank you. Yeah, that's not structured in a chronological order because in this subdivision 2 that we jumped down to, now we're talking about the preliminary reports. So this report, January 15, 2022, comes in before the final report in August of 2022. And much of the Senate's language has been accepted with regard to this preliminary report summarizing the work completed in subdivision one that we just went through, except the preliminary report is not going to touch on the work completed with regard to the forensic treatment facility. So that's a change in this draft. This forensic treatment piece is carved out from the preliminary earlier report. And I see there's a hand. I don't know if you'd like me to pause. Yeah, thank you. And actually, before I call on Martin, what we're looking at now is very important piece to the House because the idea that any decision or recommendations or anything about a forensic treatment facility would come later. First, the other recommendations, considerations needed to be looked at first. And so that's why there's this separation and the preliminary report excludes the language in NG regarding the forensic treatment facility. And I know that that was important to some committee members here as well. Martin. It's a simple question, I believe. I just am confirming in the House passed version that we sent out last week, the subsection B, that was the preliminary report. And now this has changed to a final report. I just want to make sure. So I believe the structure is the same. Oh, so sorry, you're talking about the original House version that went over. The Senate changed that one to the final report. Right. So, but your question is about the House version that left last week. I'm looking at that we had on January 15, 2022, that it would be a preliminary report and now that has turned into the final report. I don't think I'm following. So B1 is the final report. And that's due August of 2022, August 1, 2022. August 1, it is. It's just, just looking, and I suppose people won't be looking back at the what we passed out last week, because B1 was a preliminary report. We have a different structure now, in other words. It is a different structure. So the version that the House passed, the preliminary reports were much more substantive. They contained recommendations, and the final report was only really fine-tuning those recommendations. So that was structured in chronological order. The Senate's version that they sent back and that you're amending here kind of flipped that, because the final report is where all the substance was located, and their preliminary report was really just a status update on the work. So that was kind of almost a tag on at the end. So that is sort of why the structure has been flipped, but I hear that it is confusing to follow along and see the final report first and then get to the preliminary report. So I'm going to keep moving along. So we've covered that this forensic treatment piece is carved out of the preliminary report that's coming back on January 15th. However, there is another report that is required by this language, and that is the O&H, the prosecutor notification on orders of non-hospitalization. This was in, I think, every version of the bill so far. What is changing here is that we've kind of separated this out to be part one of the report that's coming on January 15th, 2022. And now there is a new subdivision C2 due on February 15th, 2022. And this is sort of the preliminary report for the forensic treatment piece. And you'll note that because it's coming in a month and a half, is it a month and a half or a month, a month later than the first preliminary report, then the work of the first preliminary report can be used to kind of inform the work that's coming in with regard to models for forensic treatment facility. So this summarizes the work completed to date by the working groups regarding models for forensic treatment, including the size, scope, and fiscal impact of any forensic treatment facility, pursuant to the subdivision up above that we looked at. So it's kind of, again, tearing that decision-making with regard to the forensic treatment models. From there, we have mostly technical changes to make the different pieces work. The version that came over from the Senate had a section D that has been removed and everything's been renumbered. That was the competency restoration piece. So these highlights with regard to subsections B and C are just meant to show that reference to subdivision D has been removed. And then sort of a similar thing is happening here. We have language that final, the final report that's coming in in B1 is to be, include proposed draft legislation. And that requirement also applies to the preliminary or to the report on prosecutor notification for orders of non-hospitalization, that's C1. But C2 is not included because it's, C2 is the preliminary report on the forensic treatment piece. If there's any proposed legislation needed, that would be captured in B1 when the final report comes in. And that is really it for changes. I will take this document down so you can see each other. Thank you, Katie. I appreciate Katie was available quite late last night. So I really, really appreciate you working so hard and long on this to help us hopefully get to the finish line. Coach. Katie, can you give us a little, at least your observation as to section seven, the Joint Legislative Justice Oversight Committee and the fact or what was the rationale behind not adding that additional membership that the House suggested? Sure. So members of Senate Judiciary and Senate Health and Welfare met yesterday morning in a, in a joint committee meeting. And I believe at that time some of the comments had to do with the fact that the House does already have an at-large member and it could be up to the speaker's discretion to appoint somebody from House Healthcare if that seemed like the expertise that was missing from that particular committee. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Barbara. So the draft legislation piece is new. Is let's counsel on this or who was envisioned drafting this legislation? So just for clarity, the draft legislation piece has been there for every version that's been adopted so far. Thank you. And yeah, that sometimes it's not uncommon to see language like that when a report back is required to come with proposed draft language. I believe I am frozen. You are, but we can hear you. Can you hear me? Yeah. So was let's counsel staffing, I forget if let's counsel was staffing this or not. Do we have we both Barbara and Katie are now frozen? Am I right? Oh no, Barbara's back. I'm unfrozen now. I don't know if you've heard the rest of my response. We didn't. Thank you. Okay. I said that the language about including proposed draft language has been there since the beginning. And I also said that it's not totally uncommon to require proposed draft language. It doesn't specify, of course, that it's coming from the office of Ledge Council. But in this case, since the report is coming from DMH, it would likely be proposed through DMH. And if members chose to introduce it would come to Ledge Council at that point. Thanks. Thank you. Any other questions? So Deputy Commissioner Morning Fox, I'd like to welcome you and give you an opportunity to comment if you'd like. Thank you very much, Chair Gradd. For the record, Morning Fox, Deputy Commissioner Department of Mental Health, starting to feel like we should start paying you folks rent for being in your committee, Senate Judiciary, back and forth. It's been a long haul. And I think kind of our perspective right now, I think we're good with this language. We had some of this conversation with some members of, with Health Healthcare yesterday and such. And I think it's our hope that we're able to find some language that works between both the House side and the Senate side because this is such important legislation. And I know we're talking about some technical pieces within the studies here, but I don't want that piece to overshadow sections one, two, three and four of this bill that have some really important legislation in them. But we are in support of this. We'll make do with whatever timelines we really have to make do with. We recognize that we don't want to push things out too far because this is such an important topic and has been something that we have testified and has been issues for a number of years. And as we, we like, like both the Senate and the House do not want this to go out longer than it than is necessary. But having enough time to do thoughtful and articulate research and study to provide clear and concise information back to the legislature with potential legislation proposals, it's important that we work on, you know, having those reasonable timelines. And so, you know, as I mentioned in House Health Care yesterday as we were kind of talking about some of this is we're good with the timelines and we ask folks to you know, have the grace, you know, that this is one of the large Now you're now you're frozen. Must be. Yeah. We've been asked to really do work opinion. And so we're definitely in support of this and we'll we'll do everything within our power to bring back to the legislature, both for the preliminary reports and final reports, the information that you all need to be able to move forward with any other pieces related to this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. That's any hands, Bill. Give folks a minute. Any questions? Martin. Yeah, a quick, I think that's a quick question. So we in one of the preliminary report due on January 15th, we don't have a preliminary report on the models for forensic treatment. Instead, we have that under now C2 for the preliminary work. Is that just to give a little bit more time on that aspect of the work? Is that is that the idea for that? That's my understanding. Yes. All right, thank you. Yeah, it's and that's an important that's an important point because you know, to have some separation between those between those two times because this committee had spoken about not wanting a sort of assumption or foregone conclusion that there will be that there is a need for for a facility and wanted to have some more more thought and research put into it. And so that's what the hope is that by getting some space between those dates and reports, it'll it'll allow for some some groundwork to be done before before any decisions or recommendations about a facility. Thank you. Any any other questions? Thank you so much. Appreciate it. So if there aren't any other questions, I would entertain a motion that we approve draft 2.1 dated 519 2021 of S3. And this is a this is an amendment offered by Representative LaLonde, who's the reporter of the bill, that we concur in the Senate proposal of amendment to the House proposal of amendment with further proposal of amendments, which is what we are looking at in draft 2.1 of S3. I'll make that motion. Thank you. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. And Ken, let us know when you're when you're ready to call the roll, please. Try and just give me one second, please. That's fine. Let's just take your time. Okay, you ready? Okay. Um, Chrissy? Yes. Colburn? Yes. Donnelly? Yes. Ghostland? Yes. LaLonde? Yes. Lefler? Norris? Yes. Nott? Yes. Rachelson? Yes. Burdick? Yes. Madam Chair? Yes. Thank you. Is Representative Lefler going to be around this morning or? I don't know. I haven't I haven't heard, but why don't we hold it open for a little bit? Okay. Well, thank you. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you, everybody. Okay. So with that, that does give us time to move to the question of whether or not to send a letter to the judiciary regarding six person juries. I said it was a major shift in what we've been doing, but we do have a proposed letter on our website. I'm just not remembering. Maybe Evan, if you could help me or Eric, where it would be? It's under your name and it's posted to today's date. Today. Wonderful. Thank you. There we go. Okay. All right. So seems like a long time ago, but we had discussed the issue of six person juries in the context of the pandemic, but also in the context of access to justice, post pandemic, helping with the backlog, and whether or not we looked at legislation and we looked at concerns about constitutionality. We discussed the authority of the judiciary to do this on their end through their, through their rules. And the letter here is to ask them to continue to, to consider that. And actually, Eric, if I can turn it to you just to give us some more background. Also, the Senate also sent a similar letter, a little different, but if you could, Eric, if you could just give us some background and set the stage for, for this letter that I am asking the committee to consider, please. Sure. Eric, it's Patrick with the Office of Legislative Council here to talk with the committee about this possible proposed letter to the judiciary regarding the six person juror issue. The sort, the background, I think that you're referring to Representative Grad is the notion that the letter proposes to ask the court to use its emergency authority to, to implement the use of six person jurors, six person juries, at least during the period of emergency. And the, the understanding there, or at least the, the thought is that you may recall that H417 didn't ask the court to implement the six person juror approach by rule, but instead proposed to establish it by statute. And that's an important distinction because there appears to be a potential constitutional problem with requiring it by statute that could be avoided by having the court do this by rule. And that's because of a case mentioned, I mean, it's sort of not just because of the case, but a helpful point on that is a case that's referred to in the letter itself in which the court has done this before. This was in 1990 when, when there was a, an emergency as a result of a, a economic crisis, a financial crisis. And there was no money left to in a lot of branches of the government and there were rescissions ordered by the governor and by the legislature. And in the context of that, the court ordered the suspension of all jury trials for six months from January of 1990 to the end of the fiscal year on July 1st of that year. So that the constitutionality of that was challenged. In this case, the court said it was okay under its emergency authority and under its authority to administer the courts and the Vermont constitution. So the idea is, you know, if the court has the ability to suspend jury trials completely, then one would think that they would have the authority to take the less drastic, less severe step of saying, well, we're not suspending them completely, but for a period of time during an emergency, six person juries will be used. So there's some authority for the court doing this by rule that would avoid the constitutional problem that in non-emergency situations, it appears that jurors, juries have to be composed of 12 people. So that's the, I think the rationale behind asking the court to do this by rule rather than passing a statute. And as the chair mentioned, the Senate Judiciary Committee had sent a somewhat similar, not entirely similar, didn't focus on the this court case, which I think is very helpful. But the Senate letter was a bit more of a bigger picture letter in January, also asking the court to implement a six person jury procedure. Didn't do that at the time, but this letter proposes essentially that they take another look at it and do it now. I think that's kind of the summary of where the background is. Thank you. Thank you, Eric. Tom. Sure. Thank you. First off, it's hard to believe that 1990 was 31 years ago. Right. Eric, I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I'm going to assume that back then when they went to six person that it wasn't challenged. You mean in 1990? Yes. Yes. Well, actually in 1990, it wasn't even, they didn't go to six persons. They suspended jury trials completely. Oh, right. Right. Okay. Okay. And it was challenged. That's the case that's referred to in the letter, some litigants challenged that as being a violation of the constitutional right to a jury trial under Vermont Constitution. And the court said, no, it's not a violation of that right, because this is a limited temporary emergency step that the court has the authority to take under the portion of the constitution that gives the court administrative control over the courts. Okay. Sometimes I need to hear things two or three times for it to sink in. Oh, that's fine. Yeah. No, thank you. Yep. Ken and then Kate. Hi. Good morning. I could see sending this letter if we were still operating under January guidelines, where about all the restrictions are about to be lifted and all that. I really, I think we're opening up a big can of worms doing this and I don't see the reason to do that. That's just my opinion. We're very close to June 1st. And the governor already said by July 4th we're going to be open. And we've already done the court's backlog. I'm not sure it's because of juries. So I'm having a problem with this. Thank you. Thank you. Kate and then Martin. Thanks. I think I support the letter. You know, I do think, you know, while restrictions are shifting, I do think that everyone has sort of varying degrees of sensitivity to their own health needs. And I think this is going to be a transition for a while. I feel like when we were listening to testimony on this, where my mind went was like putting our energy into trying to figure out a virtual method of jury selection and meeting, which sounds like they were starting to work on, and doing sort of like 12-person virtual jury versus like moving to a six-person jury. And so I guess, again, it's not that I don't support this letter. I think that I do and I would, but I guess my concern is that it would like disincentivize the courts from continuing to pursue a virtual method, which I think seems like it would be wise to continue to pursue that just moving forward. As I imagine we're going to kind of be moving, as we move through this pandemic experience, I think there's probably going to be some like fifths in the start. So I guess that would be my thought. I don't know if it seems like it makes sense to stick something in the letter. Like, you know, we're encouraged to hear that you're working on virtual jury selection and we would hope you continue on that, you know, track or something on those lines, but I guess that those would be my thoughts. Okay, I appreciate that. Martin, Selena, can I see your hand up? I don't know if this is from before. Coach, go for it. So Martin. Yeah, actually a response to Ken and also to Kate. So the last couple paragraphs, not the very last one, but the two before the last paragraph, address that issue that Ken brings up, that even the relaxed rules that they have don't apply to the close congregate settings, which definitely a jury is. They are together in small jury rooms for extended periods of time. And the court, you know, they have their own path and own guidelines, as far as for the public safety, that don't necessarily have to follow the governors, you know, as a separate branch, they're making up their own safety rules. So to the extent that this continues to be a concern, as far as the close congregate setting, they may still really limit the trials that they can have.  It's just really a recommendation from us. And it's also a suggestion to help, you know, forgetting about the close congregate settings or any of those things. We did hear Pat Gable did agree that six person juries could be more efficient, could be more expeditious, because you're drawing smaller juries, you open up more space, etc. So I think even with the relaxing rules, which I'm delighted is happening, I think that the court still have to really take heed of the safety concerns and the concerns of jurors who may be reluctant to serve because of their own risk tolerance. So that's one point. The other point, as far as I think that we probably haven't heard enough on the pluses and minuses of virtual jury trials and whether that's going to be possible. I mean, if it is something that's workable, then that's great. And they are going to be doing a test run. And certainly they can, they can decide on their own whether this letter is sent to them or not, that that is instead the approach to take. So I don't think we necessarily have to get into that, given our level of knowledge of really how well virtual juries would work one way or another. So thanks. I want to make sure I get this right. I have Selena coach will, and then we will wrap up soon. We're not going to take any action on this today, because I do see that there's quite a bit of discussion needed. And I want to make sure that we have time for all of it, which it doesn't look like we will today. Selena. I support the letter sending the letter. And especially, you know, I mean, if it's clear, and maybe there's maybe there's some slight edits to the letter that would help with this, but that we're really just asking them to look at it and consider it, which is all we really have the authority to do here. I do think there's some really good points in the letter about even when things get quote unquote back to normal, that we heard that in civil proceed, we heard testimony that in civil proceedings, you know, the six person jury could really speed things up and start to clear that those dockets out more quickly. And I think there's also really good, and this may be redundant with what others have said, but just to be on the record with my support, I think there's also really good points there about sort of the way that courtrooms and juries in particular kind of overlap with some of the congregate settings where those guidelines aren't going to be necessarily relaxed in the same way on the same timetable. And so for those reasons, I support, I support just asking the judiciary to look at this. Thank you. I appreciate that. Coach, and then Will. Thank you. I won't reiterate a lot of things that other people have said, but I will share some of the things that came to me. One, during the testimony, we heard very clearly that Justice Eaton is heading up a group to do the preliminary hybrid trial model. Okay. And my understanding is by the end of the month, we'll know how, you know, there'll be a response back to itself, basically. But the bottom line is they're proactively looking at a hybrid. All of this, I think, is a hybrid. And it's critical because there are going to be jury members, or jurors, I should say, that could actually ask to be not there because of that setting that Martin mentioned, you know, in his comments. And one of the other things that came up during what the testimony we heard, and I just wanted to kind of remind folks, the example given of the Wyndham County Courthouse, that's one of our newer courthouses. And like Rutland, remembering that setting, and the smaller ones are just kind of out of the question in a lot of ways. But there's only three or four physical structures that allow for full 12 person jury settings. And remember what Judge Greerson and others shared with us was is that in order to do a trial, it would take three courtrooms to do that. So in Brattleboro, that's three floors. And so you're committing basically almost, you know, 78 to 80 percent of the infrastructure of the courthouse to that one trial, when normally you'd be having four, five trials going on at the same time simultaneously. So I think they're being very responsive. And what our letter is doing is supporting some things, asking for a few considerations based on the testimony we've heard. And also reminding them that we're in support of looking at hybrid. Because basically even with the Governor relaxing those space requirements and mass requirements, they still left it up to the individual entities as far as businesses and entrepreneurs to follow their their best science. You know, so we've seen it already. Some businesses are saying, look, because of our close congregate settings, like the tattoo artist that was on the news last night, they still use full fledged protocol because they have non vaccinated children coming in for ear piercing. You know, so I mean, there's a lot of individual pieces that are moving here. So we just kind of have to be allowable, I guess, would be the thing. So thank you. Yeah, thank you, Coach. Grace, a lot of very important points. I appreciate that. Will and then I'm going to wrap this up for now. Thank you. Thank you. I have to admit to having extreme level of discomfort with the letter. You know, I understand the situation and I think it's been spelled out for us. And just a couple of thoughts. One, I by no means want to discount where we are in the pandemic. Personally, I haven't been vaccinated yet because I am in the window. The CDC recommends between actually having COVID and when they recommend getting the vaccine. There are there are people out there who cannot be vaccinated. And I don't want to discount that. But that said, I mean, we I believe it's been expressed that what's proposed would not be allowable under the Vermont Constitution without an emergency order. And while the pandemic is still with us, it is definitely changing. The number of people vaccinated is moving up. So I feel like I'm not certain using that as the justification for for this emergency order balances the scales for me. Because for me, where the scales are really tipped is my concern about cutting jury size in half. I mean, we know that Vermont is not a diverse place. We're going to see in jury pools, lots of people with similar life experiences with with with similar thoughts with similar backgrounds. And I worry that by cutting a jury from 12 to six, those two, three, four opinions that that could change an outcome that could be the important perspective in the room, those may be lost. And for me, that is the part of this proposal that I am the most uncomfortable with and the part that, even with the circumstances on the other side, I just can't get past. Thank you. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you, everybody who who weighed in. Let's appreciate the the feedback and certainly need more more discussion on this. So thank you. I do want to adjourn. Very soon, I am hoping that s3 will be up this morning. So that way, assuming there are rural suspension, we can get it over to the Senate ASAP, because it is such a such an important bill. The other thing we're watching is s97 that we did message that yesterday. So we need to need to see what, if anything happens, changes with that. And I think that's all that we have sort of up in the air. But again, we never know. So before anything else before we adjourn. Nope. Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Evan, and just stay tuned for emails and I'll I'll work on building a new list text text list. And yes, we may need to come back together. I hope we'll come back together. So even if it's just to just to say hi. So thank you.


I see you like to put your lips around SRK who doesn't agreed Hey, welcome back to our stupid direct since the Corbin. I'm Rick.  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah You know, they're not paying the rent I Couldn't tell you who's paying their rent What social media platform you must well most of the marks up that one cool. Yeah Don't care and Thanks for some patreon folks for true account scribe you like button. Thank you so much.  How you doing? All things considered pretty dang good terrible. No, okay good. Yeah today. We're doing a movie review And it's welcome back to classic month. It's classic month. It's classic month and today we got a tumble classic with Superstar Superstar I don't think at this point those who's no, no, no, this was a natural head of hair hundred percent His head of hair then. Yes, I'm talking about now. Oh, yeah, nobody has a better way 1978 tumble film Moulin Malaram Moulin Malaram, right? No Corbanization on that one bad boy. Very nice. Take that and shove it in your butthole Directed by Jay Mahendran And a directoral debut at the time screenplay but it based on a novel by Uma Chandran Chandran. Yeah, not to be confused with Uma Thurman. Yes composed by Raja, sir starring Superstar Rajnikanth, also starring Sarath Babu as Kumaran and Shobha as Bali and Jayakshmi as Manga. Yes And so this came out in 1978 and because it's classic month That's why we're doing a bunch of old films right now. The first film was guide the Hindi film Yep, if you haven't seen that review go check that out But it will obviously be a hundred spends for the review.  That's right.  It's true So you liked it. I I loved it. Good. Yep I I have nothing but superlatives about this film to talk about I think we will from most part agree There's some parts that I did not enjoy it. Okay, I'd be interested to see what might be and we'll get into that I have so many good things. Yeah, I'm much more good things than I do bad. There's just certain in its It's a it's a through line. I guess for me Yeah from stuff that I don't normally like in certain films, but we'll just get started I already know I know what one of them is gonna be I already can tell you what we're gonna talk about And you're gonna know why I loved it and I'm gonna know why you didn't yeah But let's just get into let's start with the superstar rush good This is our third superstar Ross and cons film. Yep, and all of them so far have been his older works, right? We started with he was supporting in the first thing. I think we saw was come all his aunts film No, was that the second one? I think thought apathy was the first I think you're right Then it was the Shredevi and come all 16 something where he was supporting. Yes And then now this one and so it's all older so far and I I've been told that that's when he was more focused on being more Thespian addict. Yeah, and then he became larger than himself Right. You see later in his career Yeah Kind of just had to you know do more stuff for his fans and all that kind of stuff Yeah, the whole riff it conversation about star and actor So but I do want to see some of his more recent stuff as well to get that feel of what a more recent Superstar film is me too. I think it's like especially if we got to see it in theaters one. Yeah, I think that would be really interesting Yeah, but anyways, let's talk about him. I thought this is Probably and it's hard because all of his performances have been really really good Oh, I have no problem saying it. It's my favorite is this is best absolutely, and I have no no issue Yeah, it's it's for me his best. I think we've seen I think he did Really really good job and also I think a lot of that has to do with the director and how what because I did do some research And this was a very revolutionary for Tamil cinema at the time I can tell and what with what they tried to do and also for Rajanakha himself because he played mostly a villain Not that he was playing a predominantly good person in this fully, right? But he was predominantly just a villain and then this guy wanted him as the lead actor in this, right? And I believe the title also means the thorn and the rose and the rose yeah something along I didn't know if that meant if it was just about Rajanakha the thorn and the rose or if it was him and his sister Right, obviously you could obviously leave that open to interpretation. Yeah, my my interpretation would be It's it's that character him. Yeah, he's both a beautiful person and an ass That you get sweet beautiful things from that character, but you also get painful not okay things from that character a very There were so many things that surprised me about the film and focusing on him It became really clear that and I did more research on him as we typically do It's it shows that he had a love for theater and a love for the craft when he came into film and it it it shows his his Emotional availability his honesty his listening his Just nothing but I as Impressive for me as the stuff that I've seen where I've been impressed with say Kamal Hassan Yeah, I can I can see why and just the little we've seen of him I can see why he has the reputation he has absolutely and I loved his relationship with his sister One of my favorite part of the entire film was the fact that this was a lot more brother sister Centered yeah, they're beautiful chemistry and relationship. Mm-hmm. I really enjoyed that and we'll get to her as well But like he had some beautiful moments with her Yeah, and and it kind of he's showing of I'm wanting his toxic masculinity sign Yeah, at times. Yeah, but then also his deep like he there's nobody he loves more than a sister No, you wouldn't do for his sister and he's very kind kind compassionate person as is she I wrote down early in my notes They're wonderful. Mm-hmm, the brother and sister and their their chemistry and I wrote down lovely scene one of the best scenes I've seen in a classic film is When he's crying and she wants him to come to dinner early on in the film Yeah, I believed I was watching a brother and sister and I didn't believe they were Indicating there weren't false moments it it I Again some of the most for 1978 It's as grounded as acting gets yeah, absolutely and her as well Yeah, I want to talk about both ladies at length subia right and that was his sister That was a sister, right? I'm not yeah Vali is Vali. Vali was a sister. Yeah, sorry subia. Yeah, I believe committed suicide or yeah, that we can get into that now If you want yeah, I don't because I have a lot to say about that We might want to save that for the back end because I have a lot to say about yeah that because it's also Manga, yeah, they both killed themselves the same year really. Yeah, oh man. Geez, but yeah, which broke my heart Though the fact that they were so They're brilliant and they were they are such good actresses. Let's talk about suba first She gave young tree devy vibes really of like her capacity as an actor and her as her screen presence Oh, hello, that's my mother. Oh, hi mom Um, but yeah, probably wondering where I am probably she just woke up but she Her her screen presence and her capacity as an actor and obviously her beauty She's absolutely gorgeous, but like she she didn't say a lot in this movie, but she conveyed a ton Like she I don't think she had that much dialogue in this film It was a lot of looks which is obviously I think goes to what the director wanted to do in this film Yeah, you wanted to do a lot with just silence and without actually going into a heavy dialogue film And she meant she did she convey so much with her expressions or eyes or just I loved her She probably my favorite performance in the whole thing even above Rajanakant the two ladies were Even more stand out. They were they were incredible and I loved how every moment of emotion was believable most especially Close-ups of tears. I didn't in any way think they needed to add tears to make it look like they were crying I could see the emotion. I could see the willing up Everything felt grounded the whole of the film Gave me the same vibes I get when I see Stuff as good as last film show or a really really well done student film because You know everything is being done It's like college sports everyone's doing it because of they just are so passionate about it. Yeah, and I could it I Just felt that in every frame and the thing that was most impressive to me was how seriously I felt those three Took the roles and how good they were in their roles. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Yes, she was made and I loved the character of manga as well the fact that she was this fiery Um Not taking any shit. Yeah character Pretty amazing to have such powerful powerful women and we'll talk about this on 1978. I loved her song. Yeah We'll talk about what Roger sir did in this, but I loved her song. I thought it was absolutely hilarious Yeah, but yeah, she had such a great character And it was in her character obviously developed right from it was obviously very dated for like having a character Just like gluttonous just eating all the time. Yeah, but you know 1978 Forgivable things. That's what it was what happened today. Yeah making fun of people for their vices But the fact that you know she had this kind of arc from being almost childlike to becoming a woman to wanting Rajnikanth Yep, their chemistry together. Yeah kind of the banter back and forth They had I thought was really really good She had great chemistry yep with Rajnikanth and then at the end obviously she when she was obviously Standing up a lot to Rajnikanth that she really brought the power. Mm-hmm. I did two minutes. Yeah, I Ever I was just Transfixed and happy There hasn't been a performance by actresses in the classics and even some of the more recent things we've seen This is some of the best acting I've seen From those three and those ladies as I was looking them up when I saw That they both Committed suicide. I then went on a deep dive into an issue that It gave me let's just say it gave me better perspective on why there was so much outrage about Shashant Yeah, the number of people I mean India alone the most recent this is a statistic from the Guardian who I think got this from World Health Organization in 2021 Nearly 40% of the world suicides are Indian. Whoo and of those suicides 70 to 80 percent of them are women hmm, and If you look at the history of Indian cinema not just Bollywood you look at Indian cinema the number of suicides is staggering Whether or not conspiracy theorists would say they were murders versus self-inflicted deaths You got a problem. Yeah There's there's an extraordinary Extraordinary problem that I don't think is just a Film industry problem in India. It's clearly a mental health and societal issue That has yet to be fully Accepted understood or addressed and sadly I read something. I didn't even know I You may be able to validate it. Is it true that Shwastika Mukherjee had once tried to take her own life in the midst of her depression I know she's been really open and honest about battling with depression and things, but it wouldn't surprise me No, did you hear you know there was an actress in December in Bollywood who hung herself on set Oh, no, I did not hear that she was on set went to the bathroom. They didn't come back and they found her she had hung herself and That was December 24th just a couple weeks ago so the one unexpected take away from this for me was to think about All women but most especially to see those two I got very emotional Watching this knowing midway through that these ladies at 17 and 20 respectively in the same year died by hanging Was to me an encapsulated analogy indicative of the total tragedy that I Don't know It just it needs to be addressed as something much much larger than just conspiracy theories like came up with Shashant not negating the reality of that I now have a greater understanding because with you if you I imagine if you live in India, which I Guess it shouldn't be so much of a surprise because it's the primary Issue that you deal with in three idiots, which is the first Indian film we ever watched that Pressure it's it's it's and there was a moment in the film where Somebody said if you don't let her get married She's gonna kill herself and that just struck me in the light of of all of that And I don't want to make that the salient pinpointed issue, but I think it's an important thing To talk about because their voices I Still hear them now in ways that It needs to be addressed yeah in much much better ways because it's it's it's a it's an epidemic absolutely Yeah, I totally agree And on that I also want to talk about the Obviously their performances were beautiful and everything obviously like that I want to talk about the the score of this film from the songs that south which were even though It's not a song heavy film like the good film We just watched guide which had a ton of amazing big songs much much smaller. Mm-hmm, but some great songs in this. Yeah, obviously Manga's song about food before they had sex essentially Yeah, I loved yeah, I love that song a lot of humor there, but it was actually a really great song, too I was like it was I wish people would sing this to me before they had sex with me But then also superstars song almost halfway through yeah that number I know it's an iconic song And then but I actually I love the entire score behind the entire I did too as well Yeah, I thought it was a really really lovely. Yep. I thought it was very creative. I I I Always set aside my thoughts about Overscoring when watching a classic because the standards of the day are far far different than they are and in cinematic storytelling today Yeah, I I love the recurring theme that consistently came up and yeah, I not a surprise that He made a good score for the film another thing before I forget That really kind of boggled my mind and I guess it it shouldn't because I remember the first time I saw something like this there's a moment in the film where Everybody's it's before Roger DeCant song where they're walking down The hill carrying the deity and everybody's barefoot. Yeah, including the ladies and I looked at the ground and it's another rock Yeah Well, I remember watching kids in Papua New Guinea play football Barefoot. Mm-hmm. No grass just dirt and rocks When you grow up that way your feet can handle it, but I was I was Gobsmacked at that terrain and everybody happily Marching down how many takes they may have had to do I can imagine So that was very impressive to me. Yeah, I noticed that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I love the score and all that and so the one Issue that I had with the film was the ending. Yes. Yes Okay hated and I loved so here here's the thing I actually loved the direction it was taking because it really made him become a villain. Yeah in the end, right? Right, I was like, this is a turn. Yeah, he's no longer our lead hero who we're rooting for right Which is wonderful. He was bashing his wife's head in it Same revolutionary sense of breaking stereotypes that most Kamal Hassan stuff does and so like he was like bashing his wife's head in right? I was like, okay This is not really redeemable anymore. No, right. So like it's like He's become a full-fledged. His ego is taken over. Yeah, and all this kind of stuff and I was like, okay This is a turn I like this. I think all of his compassion was in his left arm And once he lost that he had none I didn't love that he lost his arm because I was not expecting no arm at all No, but yeah the when that turn happened at the end where obviously he was making his sister marry somebody else because he didn't Want his ego wouldn't let him right married this guy loves her who also I thought did a really good job I haven't talked about him. I enjoyed his performance. I did too. I thought he did a good job but in the end When obviously I loved the moment when the entire village was like we're not gonna let you do this to where we Actually, I didn't I did not expect no neither did I I thought he was just eloping with her like good But they were the whole village came together and then they left him at the at the the water I was like, oh, this is great.  He did not deserve that Like I don't hope springs eternal and then he was gaslighting everybody and her it's like she loves me So much and now I'm such a nice guy. You can marry her. I hated it. I hated the ending Absolutely despised it.  No, he was pretty as holy before. No He was mostly a compassionate guy. Mm-hmm mostly a compassionate good guy who was caring and Was really sweet to his you see it a turn you think a guy Wives head and deserves a redemption arc I do because of the love that he has for Both of those ladies. This is how I would have ended the film You could have still had everybody dies bashing. No, just leave him Standing on the edge of the river and them going away. Okay. Why do I have a question? Why the redemption? I have a question. I've you've seen the color purple.  I've never seen that so Oprah right the color purple No, that's one of the greatest movies ever made it's one of Steven Spielberg's finest creations It's the movie that made me realize. It's Oprah. It's Oprah. It's Oprah. It's whoopie Goldberg. It's it's Danny Glover, yeah, I know obviously have the color purple and and never seen it and it is I Remember when I saw it. It was the first time Spielberg had gone into a film He had been known for the blockbusters. He'd been known for Jaws and ET and close encounters and To hear he was doing something that was an adaptation from a really amazing novel and I'm bringing it up because of the Arc and the line and those of you who've seen the color purple will know what I'm talking about The arc of mister in the film. Hmm. You've got to see the color. Okay. I'll watch yeah I can't now I can't think of a parallel of another character I'm trying to figure out that but he tried to bash his wife's head in and he got a redemption art You got to see the color purple. There's nothing I can nothing I can do I just like because I would that my question would be how do you feel about the character arc of mister in the color Purple but you haven't seen the color purple. Yeah, I just I'm fine with like and I enjoyed the fact that they went in a Different direction. I wasn't expecting them like for him. I was like, okay. This is our hero. He has some flaws He's really gray, but he's gonna kind of come through and be the hero in the end But then they took the turn and he was like he's really going into his ego side So you don't like a Christmas Carol I would imagine because you don't like what happened to Scrooge Well Scrooge never tried to bash anybody. Oh my goodness.  I don't care.  No, he deserves to die on the river I enjoyed the film outside of the ending I knew we were gonna have a conversation about the end I just I loved the end and I thought Gorman's gonna have that India For some reason loves these redemption arcs. So does Disney. Yeah, they do and that's a big problem. I have a Once upon a time you can have a happy ending for a happy story once upon a time That they lived happily ever after it's been the beginning and ending of stories Forever for how many of those stories with the lead bashes his wife's head and how many of them Watch the color purple.  I don't remember that part in the Star Wars What are you talking about? You think you think Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader are good guys. Yeah, but Darth Vader Yeah, I got granted Vader was never married and in bash his wife's head in true I guess that's the he did unforgivable sin You know the other girl was actually murdering a bunch of children.  What makes the entirety the central story of the entire Star Wars saga is not Luke Yeah, but he it's the redemption of Anakin Skywalker, but he died in the end Which was which is fine? But which is fine. He but he Redeemed that's but you would have preferred that's fine. He could have been like the Emperor to have killed him I he could have done this. I'm so sorry And I died and then I would have been fine. Yeah, but the So saying you're sorry is fine, but sure just make sure that you still Some stuff is not totally forgivable. Gotcha. So that is the unpardonable sin bashing your wife's head. Yeah That's the unpardonable one. If you bash your wife's head and I don't know if I could work with you anymore, Rick Well, that's different saying. I don't know that if I could work with you anymore.  Anyways, let us know about the film and what should be the next Classic superstar rise in a con film old or new yeah as well With the newer ones just make sure it's one that we'd be able to enjoy as well Not something that's like just for his fans right as well something that it doesn't have to be full-set speed I want to see the big over the top. Yeah I want what want to know who he's been who he evolved into when I know we're gonna watch the cigarette throws Yeah, but I I still want to be able to fully enjoy the film and I know some of his films are just for his fans Well, right, so you guys can let us know what the next Superstar Russia con film or other Tamil classics that we can get into down below


the second talk will be given online and everyone hear me yes but we don't see the slides yet oh yeah you have to share them yes okay now it's good yeah it's welcome okay okay so the second presentation is a novel completeness test for liquid models and its application to side channel attacks and it's was responsibly engineered simulators it's by seagull and Elizabeth Oswald and the presentation will be given by seagull for issues thanks for the okay thanks for it so thanks for everyone helping me to set this up and thanks for coming to my talk my name is seagull and today I'm gonna talk about within this talk I'm gonna talk about how you can construct complete liquid models and how does it apply to such an attacks and responsibly engineered simulators so this is my joint work with elizabeth's I now work for far away now but this work was entirely done last year when I was working in the University of Colegion food Austria well I was funded by an ERC funding code C okay so I guess most of our audience already familiar with the concept of such an analysis so such an analysis take advantage of your information decade whether it's timing or consumption etc and then potentially can recover the CPT in a really short time at the cost of taking some additional physical observations for example your power consumption on some assist scope and let's take a systematic systematic point of view let's consider like as an attacker as a session attacker what you have to do so of course you need to have this device running the code and take this assist scope to measuring perhaps your power consumption of course that's always the same but as the attacker is the first thing you need to assume is what's the target you believe states and targeting out for example for normal hamming weight correlation attacks I might assume I'm attacking the first round the first Xbox output so then the target states is the Xbox output yet the other thing I need to assume on is how the space is leaking so perhaps I will assume the leakage the leakage and observing on the trace approximates the hamming weight of the states so today all together I need to assume that my observable leakage approximates the hamming weight of the Xbox output maybe plus with some additional Gaussian noise and what happens later on is with some key guesses KJ here I will compute my assumed leakage and compare that with the observed leakage with the Pearson correlation coefficient so if it's none zero it's a large number perhaps I got the right key guess if it's close to zero maybe I got the wrong key guess of course there is a key liberation process here so this X in general couldn't be too large so if this key guess is like 128 bits of course that doesn't make any sense but one thing we need to keep in mind is from anything you observe on the trace you never know what's the full leakage model what what what does it all like entirely contains all the information we never know so we have maybe successfully attack it with the Xbox output then we know it does contain the information about it this Xbox output but you cannot never say like this is everything you have on the trace so let's now assume we take maybe a golf view let's say like we know for sure this has the Xbox output but it also has some Xbox output leakage as the transition from this Xbox with the previous Xbox this is actually quite common for software platforms like this in this case you might have this kind of leakage from the memory subsystem maybe on your memory bus there is this transition and they will be leaking or you might have it seen some micro architecture registers or buses you might also see this kind of transition leakage it's actually quite common but the thing is you don't really know because it lies whether it's the memory or micro architecture as the co-designer there's no way you will know this before hand so does this really have any impact as a tacker I don't really care too much about this because well although having this might help you develop some somewhere a better attack as the attacker my final goal is recovering my secret key so the complexity of finding this term will be added to the final complexity towards the key so actually most cases finding this term it might take much more effort to then actually just doing this simple attacks and get the key so as a tech I don't really care about whether I'm missing this terminal but if we jump into the evaluator or certification labs choose the story is completely different from evaluation point view we really want to verify whether our masking schemes or masking or our counter measures are secure against all the leakage I observed of course in this case if I assume the leakage is solely about the Xbox output but the reality is there is this additional term which is not really about the Xbox output then perhaps your counter measures is only secure against this term but not this term so it's only like partly effective which is of course not something desirable so we propose and clarify in this paper that leakage model should contains both the intermediate states acts aka the Xbox output here and your leakage function aka the heavyweight assumption here so you don't really have to agree with me on this terminology if you assume leakage model is solely about L that's okay but still as an attacker you do need to consider both of them and there are there are a few solutions for L so if you don't like any way you can try profiling you can also try maybe are doing mutual information there are other options here but for these states acts that's what we are going to emphasis in this talk and we're going to propose something called a completeness tax we call something if a selected set of states is complete if it actually contains all the relevant states for an absurd leakage on the trace and we're going to propose using the app test to verify whether your selected states is actually complete or not if it's not complete it means it failed to express some of the leakage you can observe on trace so to having this complete model will have a few benefits for example for attacks in my review some unexpected new attack vectors or for leakage simulators they might help you to find leaks that would be otherwise missed by over simply the overly simplified models such as the heavyweight model and that's now start our journey how can we find a complete set of intermediate states so this is going to be our roadmap here the first step what what we are trying to do is construct this complete model that captures all the data dependent leakage and then well of course with the realistic measurement we're going to estimate this full model what it looks like and then we're going to take your assumption perhaps the as leakage solely about the set of output and then we'll also take the measurements and construct a model for the assumed model and then later on in the second step we're going to compare this mode this two models and figuring out whether we are missing something so if this model is significantly better than this one then that might suggest we are missing something which means your model is not really complete in other words well on the other hand if you've got something complete that means your model is complete you're not missing something up to the statistic power you are using or in other words the provided number of pieces okay so let's take a look at how we do the first step how to construct a model that can capture all the data dependency so at the first glance list my seems like mission impossible because it's like capturing all the leakage what is all the leakage but if you really think about it for an unmasked AES if we assume the secret key is some constant then all the intermediate states wherever it is whatever where ever lies in whatever it is it will always be a deterministic function of all the input piece on the other as a consequence of the leakage you are going to observe during the encryption whether it's a transition leakage whether it's leach related leakage it will also be a function of all the input piece that means if we can actually construct this model with all the input piece a well capture all the data dependency during the encryption but the problem is there's no way you can work with this model because it requires much more than two to the 128 traces to actually work with so we have to find it into a much smaller space our tricks here is trying to find each byte into one bit so we're using one random bit to represent each input byte for AES in that case we kind of find it each byte into only one bit so entirely if there are like for AES 128 there are 16 bytes which means we only need two to the 16 traces a bit more than two to the 16 traces to work with this is much more desirable and then the second step if we have a complete model like this and we have our assume model only about the xbox outputs then the next step is how we compare them luckily in this case we have some well-accepted techniques in statistics called the F test for analysis of the variance so in the F test we can compare this to with some if the F statistics in the end is larger than some threshold then we say this model you're assuming in actually misses some factor law has significant contribution to the observed package otherwise we'll say it's complete up to this statistic power which in the end depends on the number of traces you are providing okay so put it together the first step we construct a full model and assume model and then using the real list traces to construct both models and then we compare it in the F test so the F test will tell us whether you are assuming model is not complete or in other words is missing something of course it will now tell you what is missing it will just tell you it was missing something go back to our previous case if we still using our previous example here it will of course be rejected because you are missing this handy distance term okay so now let's take a look at a few more complicated applications so first of all how it works in a text so I said first of all I said this is for a text but it doesn't necessarily means we are standing on the position of attackers so if we take a look at our previous example with the hamming with the hamming weight of the Xbox output and had a distance between these two Xbox output do we ask the attacker do we really want this term so as I said previously probably not because finding this term takes intensive effort and not effort well counted to your final complexity towards your secret key the other reason I might not want this is this term actually have two relevant key buys so to attack this term you need to emuberate two key buys versus with the single Xbox output you only need one key buys which means in the end the advantage of adding this term into your attack is almost negligible but the effort to find it is quite large so in the end you might ask the attacker you might not really want to add in this term to your attack but what it's really critical here is we we were wishing we are wishing to using this analysis to review some unexpected micro-architecture features which in the end help us to develop a deeper understanding of our platform which we are well also benefits for the coding and masking implications in this specific platform of course this would also means in the following I'm not really talking about everything in on a tax setup I assume everything was in and profiling setup where we assume all the input we know about it we are only trying to train trying to train a better model for future attacks okay so the target I'm selecting is from NC the fine masking schemes you can find it in this repository so in this schemes every secret despite access encoded with an one multi-plicated mask rm and one additional mask r a so the Xbox will be pre-computed pre-computed before each encryption with the input must are in the upper marks are also later on in the within this encryption you will always do table lookouts here and the additional marks are a will be different for each bite but are in our will be shared within one encryption so within this implementation that's focused on the traces where we are timely calculate the first as boss first must get that boss table lookup well if we truly build the leakage model for it we assume while we are looking table lookup for the first bites then we might leak at zero the true and shared and must it stays for the first bites and are and are a zero and maybe also are in and out so that's all the well stays relevant for computing the first Xbox lookup but if we actually using this as our zoom model and compare that with the full model what we got is the blue lines here so basically in this graph everything above the dash line means you are not complete you're missing something so that means even if we are only timely actually computing this first as boss by the first bites as boss lookup the leakage is not solely about first as boss and why is that what is the missing leakage here so if we consider the target core the Cortex M3 we are using here is actually a 32 bit core which means your memory buses are most likely also 32 bits even if your code is only trying to load one bite from the memory it what is likely to happen is your memory is always loading a word and it is the CPUs responsibility for picking out which bites you want and discarding all the unnecessary bites so this would means on your leakage you are actually observing the leakage from the worldwide loading instead of the fight what's loading so if we add all of those into our consideration our we can get the sign that here which is right below the threshold which suggests this might be a complete model okay let's follow verify if this is actually the case here I presented the well the analysis of all four first four bites within this word and as we can see here all the musket spots the musket states all the first four musket states can be observed as a peak here so which suggests all four of them although timely you are only doing table lookup for the first bites you actually observe all the four bytes leakage simultaneously here so what does this means for attack well previously if you want the leakage for one byte xi and one byte xj you might be looking for two different points on the trace and for this case we actually know if we select something here a simultaneously have the leakage for all four bytes within this list words which means if you I want x1 x0 and x1 I can just pick one sample here and then take the second statistic moment so that will give me simultaneously two points leakage so that means if you're doing second order attacks you can do univari attack instead of fiber attacks which means you don't really have to combine noises from different sources more details will be presented in paper I will skip it for now but I would also like to emphasize this is very far from the most efficient or most powerful attacks of course the most powerful attacks are always profiling attacks but here what we would like to state is using our none our analysis you can review some new attack factors vectors and you can also learn what is previously unexpected in your analysis okay so the next application I'm going to talk about is leakage simulators so previously if you were talking if you're thinking about how we actually work with certification process is you as a crypto engineer you find some masking scheme you code it and you deploy that into your device and then you send to a certificate center which do this leakage detection finding out whether it's secure or not and then if it's a secure you can send it to the market otherwise you might go back so the none ideal part of this is basically at this point you might already finish your development cycle so in companies list means you might already finish this where if the certification center said well it's not secure you need to fix it maybe this is already a year after you actually divide the list you might already pick up what causes this or your colleague might already leaving their job which means really difficult to actually reworking on this so one of the solution for this will be the leakage simulators here so the simulator can provide you some feedback right after you write your code then you can run out leakage simulators and then you can have some well idea of whether my interpretation is right or there is something wrong the other good thing about leakage simulators is well they are fully theoretical so they not only tell the new through leakage detection which instruction is leaking they will also tell you exactly why they're leaking which helps you to develop much more targeted security patches so one important point of this schedule list workflow is quality sorry hello your time is almost up can you please conclude this talk please okay okay so I'm just gonna say the complete test will help you to verify the quality of your leakage simulator and we are gonna verify two existing simulators and what your this is the target we're using and what we observe here is it's actually quite far from what we want so everything almost every cycle is not ideal so we have constructed something better and this the non-complete leakage model actually causes some problems in your leakage detection you can see here you actually fail to detect many of the leakage here okay so I might I think maybe I can skip the ethical consideration here so um with this model we are not estimating this so which may also um avoid the problem of course of using this leakage simulator as great templates so that's the uh ethical part okay that's the end of this talk thank you right maybe we can keep the questions for the after the second talk because the second talk will be given only by uh also by the same speakers so maybe you can yeah simply continue with the second talk and then at the end we can have a few minutes yeah question


Hey guys, right, so we're gonna embark upon a new Little series of videos. They're gonna be quick short videos Playing with a new stencil in my Etsy shop. This is called four faces for obvious reasons And I'm not gonna just release a stencil and tell you about it We're gonna actually do a few different things about it And I'll show you kind of what I had in mind with it when I was designing it Which I hope you all find interesting So I was thinking about doing a series of videos Experimenting different ways to do faces and our art and different techniques different materials and I thought you know For a lot of people out there myself included especially when I was first getting started It would be really handy to have some sort of guide that you didn't have to necessarily Stick to religiously in your work and your finished piece But that you had some sort of like guideline of where different facial features should be the basic ones anyway That was the idea behind creating this stencil and then I thought as I was creating it I was going to just do one face and I have other face stencils in my shop. I Will include some pictures of them Here somewhere in the video And they're bigger they take this is a six by six so they take up the whole Stencil But I thought if it would be great if we had a smaller one and that each one of the faces was a different shape and They were generic or semi-generic so that they could be male or female That was the idea behind this so I thought okay, so I sat and did some drawing got with my stencil cutter What if and and see And I will link their Etsy shop in the description below They not only cut stencils for themselves and sell them at their shop and cut them for me They will cut them for just about anybody. So if you're interested, I'll leave their Etsy shop and contact information below and you can Contact them and see if you can work something out. Anyway, I talked to her and She said she thought that was a great idea Let me see what I could do and we came up. This is what we came up with and They're positioned most of my stencils with four images on them like this are positioned in a way that you can cut them apart If you want to lots of people myself included if I'm at home Like to just use them as a whole stencil But when I'm traveling especially and sometimes if I'm working in a small journal I do like to actually cut them apart and the this is what they look like when they're cut apart individually And especially if you're traveling with your stuff Then having them cut apart is handy. It fits in a smaller bag, right? You could even tuck them into the cover of your journal So we're gonna play with these today. I'm gonna show you what I'm gonna show you a page We're gonna do a lesson. I'll encourage you all to do something similar now I'm not saying you have to have these to do this because you don't you could Definitely use what you have you could sketch out something in pencil to start with on the page You could actually use carbon paper or graph or art transfer paper and a picture of a face from a magazine to Transfer the basic shapes of the face onto your page before you get started. You just Want the very basics, okay? So we're gonna fill this journal up here over the coming weeks with just faces done different ways using the stencil and Each one's gonna be an experiment each one's gonna be a different technique and I think each one's gonna be a lot of fun Now this journal is made with 70 pound drawing paper These are the ones that I make and I do sell some of them in my Etsy shop and I don't know how many are left I don't think there's any left with white paper. I could be wrong But I have usually white paper black paper tan paper and gray paper So I'll whatever is left in the Etsy shop at the moment. I'll link below I had to actually make a white paper one for myself because my personal stash didn't have any in it So Anyway, it's just a homemade journal. You could use whatever you want this one measures about Ruler I need a ruler 7 by just under 5 And this is my actually favorite size of journal to work on I do work on smaller ones and slightly bigger ones But this is actually my favorite size So the first thing you want to do is find your face or face stencil that you want to use I'm gonna use today this one with a square jaw And I'm gonna use just a plain number two graphite pencil. I'm gonna sort of sense center the Stencil in the page and I'm gonna use my pencil through the stencil to trace out the basic shapes of Where things are going or should go in the face when we're done So when you're done, you'll have something like that. Let's zoom in just a little bit. There we go See just a very light touch. I didn't go very dark with the pencil. Don't dig any holes to China Let me grab a piece of Hard plastic which I like to have between So this is a little like journaling trick. I guess you could call it that I do I Have lots of these little sort of plastic dashboards that want to work in different sizes and Whether I'm working like this or I'm downstairs with my daily drawing, which is downstairs by the couch I put one of these between the page. I'm working on in the next page I do tend to be a very messy artist and sometimes I'm working on paper that While it can take most things if I get it too wet things leak through and then get the next page dirty I also it also gives you a harder surface to work on and press down on Okay, the next thing you're going to need is a black pen. This is just a regular big crystal black pen Nothing special Nothing, you know fancy just a plain old pen You just want it to be something that dries down completely and doesn't stay wet for too long Also Before we get started Okay, so the first page that we're gonna do in here We are going to just do a technique where once you get started drawing your face You don't lift your pen up off the page The goal is to not lift it up at all I always find myself lifting it up at least once but the goal is to not lift it up at all It's not to create a perfect neat pay a face. It's to Do actually to do a messy fate you're gonna do a messy face and If you do it with a pen that's water-soluble After you do your face and maybe we'll do maybe we'll do two on this video Now that I'm thinking about it and we'll use Not that one my other pen is downstairs Pilot varsity pen, which is water-soluble So if you do it with a water-soluble ink Then you can go in with a water brush and you can smear the ink or blend the ink a little bit to create some shadows So you know what I think we're gonna do both ways. We're gonna do dry and then we're gonna do wet So you ready? All right, let's get started. I'm gonna speed forward through well I'm not gonna speed forward through it, but I'm gonna I'm not gonna talk I'm gonna focus on what I'm doing and I'm gonna put some music and we'll be back when I'm done That was done in real time. I didn't slow it down I didn't fast-forward it and you could you end up with something interesting like this He's pretty cute. All right So now we're gonna turn the page and this is where this little hard piece of plastic is even more important because we're gonna do one with ink that's not Waterproof the other thing you could do when the ink is dry is you can go back So the idea is for the stencil to just be a guide, but then when you're done and your ink is dry go back with an eraser and Erase all the pencil lines You don't have to do this night if you've been watching my channel for a while You know, I just generally don't bother with erasing But there you go, and then you just have something that looks like you just did it freehand with no guide Cool, right? All right, let's do one with the water-soluble ink And let's pick a different shape face Maybe maybe the round one and I need Scrap piece of paper because this pen has been sitting for a while. Let's make sure it's working. Oh, yeah It's working. So this pilot varsity ink. This is a disposable fountain pen and The thing about it is it's water-soluble and When you get it wet it does this So it's really great to add some shadows and things to your work. So we're gonna use that to our advantage And again, we're gonna start with The pencil. I'm gonna think I'm gonna flip it this way. We're gonna trace our face shapes Now these were sized in a certain way that say you wanted the round face But you wanted to do these eyes or these features that you could totally Use the features from one stencil in the shape of the face of another most of them you can do that with Helps if you hold it down and it doesn't slide out from underneath you. So that's our face So now the technique the basic technique is gonna be the same All right, so I'm gonna do this in real time and then I'm gonna take a water brush to it And we'll be right back. Okay. So there's our second face. So first face Second face now. I did take the heat gun to it to dry it once you've done that if if there are any visible pencil lines You can go in dry it dry it first But you can go in and erase them Then you'll see because I got the paper wet. It's warped a little bit I don't really mind that at all But if you're gonna do this and you that does bug you then use a journal that has maybe a thicker paper like mixed media paper You do kind of want the surface to be smooth And you don't want to use something textured like cold press watercolor paper because it will make it can make your pens sort Of skip over the paper. That's fine. If you don't mind the added texture you're drawing But for these kind of practice little pieces that might drive you crazy. So anyway, I want you to try These first two techniques for faces Of course using my stencils if you Want to buy them? Let's zoom out a little bit But using what you have you could of course make your own stencil if you have a silhouette cutting machine or something similar But if you aren't so inclined I have these and it is you do get all four faces when you buy the stencil You get one of these so and you can opt to do it package free naked and you save a dollar. I'm gonna put some Information in the description below. So do check it out. We're gonna have these videos I'm gonna do one or two faces in every video for a while until we fill this journal up We're gonna be using the face guide to do collage and to do doodling over paint and all different kinds of things so That's it for today. I hope it gives you an idea of what you can do Practicing your faces creating something new fun and artistic and filling a little journal all at the same time That's it for right now. Check out that video description for all relevant links and discount codes if applicable If you have any questions comments or concerns, please leave them in the description below I mean in the comments below Don't forget to like share and subscribe and above all go out and have a great day Do something nice for yourself because you deserve it and I'll see you later. Bye guys


Welcome to JSA TV, where we're covering the latest stories, trends, and innovations from leaders in global connectivity, real estate, the channel, and the networks within. Buffy Hierarchitis of JSA and joining me today is Michael Jaffe. He is the Vice President of Channel for Involta, a data center leader. We're reimagining the channel here that specializes in cloud, co-low, and connectivity across the United States. Michael, welcome. Thanks, Buffy. Thanks for having me. Welcome back. I think I saw you here last May, so it's great to be back. Yes, we are back here at Channel Partners 2024 in fabulous Las Vegas, and there's no better time than to be here with you. Michael, to talk about Involta's new partner community, the Involta Partner Community. Why don't you tell viewers a little bit more about the recently relaunched channel program from Involta, the new portal, and all that it has to offer. Sure. Thanks, Buffy. Everybody, so when you all saw me last year, we talked about sort of how Involta really needed to reinvigorate how we work in the channel. So we took that feedback and we did launch a whole new program. It's called the Involta Partner Community. So we have different scenarios for partnerships of referral partners, we have resale partners, we have white label partners, and then we also work with our TSB partners as well, like Avant, AppDirect, and we just recently signed a contract with Sandler. So really looking to, I really kind of get that, energize that and take that forward. We've also created a portal. That was one of the things that we were lacking in the past. So the portal allows you to access information, allows you to register deals, communicate back and forth with the teams. So it's a kind of huge development for us, and we're really looking for to grow the business, get more partners involved and take this forward. Even with all these updates, I mean, they are newer for Involta, but Involta is no stranger to the channel. I mean, we both know Involta wins multiple awards year after year, better channel focused. Why don't you tell viewers a little bit more about some of those accolades? Sure. So we were just named to the CRN's MSP 500 list. We took an award last year as well in the MSP 500 category. I think we came in like 120th, I believe. So we're looking to do better this year. We have strategic partnerships with companies such as Dell. We actually named Dell our partner of the year at our sales kickoff just recently. And then in 2022, we're Veeam's partner of the year. So we have very deep and broad relationships, not only with the channel community, but also with our key OEM and vendor partnerships. And we continue to grow that. We build our business on top of Best of Breed Solutions. And then as a partner with us, you can then resell those solutions or furl those solutions and really kind of make it make it what you like working with Involta. While we're talking about partnerships, I know you have long standing partnership with VMware. And we've been hearing a lot of the chatter here on the floor about that acquisition, the Broadcom acquired VMware. So why don't you give us a little bit more information about how that affects Involta partners, benefits, effects. Let's hear some details there. Yeah, so we've had a relationship with VMware for going on at least over 10 years at this point. We had always been a high level partner with VMware. Our entire IAS solution is built on top of VMware. So whether it's multi-tenant or dedicated solutions, that's all VMware based. Obviously, there were some changes to the programs, but I'm happy to report that we've actually been invited into when we've accepted a partnership opportunity with VMware slash Broadcom in the premier space. So in the VMware cloud service provider program, you're going to hear more about that from us over the next few weeks. So from a customer's perspective, you know, again, things change if you're not comfortable with the technology that you will have to move to a new platform, Involta can kind of take care of that for you and then work that as a service. Also, for MSPs out there that were not invited to the program, we are going to be rolling out a white label program for you as well. So you can retain your customers, we'll handle the technology, you can service support them as if they were your own. We really felt that it was a miss for some that didn't make it. So we're providing them an opportunity to still be in the VMware ecosystem, working with Involta. And again, the customers are yours. The technology, we will kind of handle that for you. So very exciting. Yeah, that is exciting. And that's great news for Involta and the Involta partner community for sure. And just talk a little bit about sustainability. A little bit here. I mean, I know Involta is known as the sustainable IT partner of choice. Want to tell viewers a little bit more about why? Sure. So we actually in 2022, there was a report ESG report and Involta was named kind of as a sustainable data center provider. Now I can't say that we're we have that in every single day data center that we operated. But overall, we're definitely ESG friendly. So if you have a customer or partner that needs to have an ESG footprint or ESG is kind of part of your corporate culture, corporate mandate, Involta can help you kind of fit the bill pretty much across all the data centers that we have today. And those data centers are growing and expanding. I mean, there was just some news recently about the acquisition in Green Bay. So Involta is definitely continuing to grow rapidly across multiple emerging markets. Yeah, no, it's fantastic. We just opened the Green Bay facility in Appleton. So that's gone live. And then really, you know, we hope to grow double our size over the next 1224 months. Absolutely. Obviously, you know, we have the Karla partnership. So they're investing in us and we're going to continue to grow. Yeah, exciting times for Involta here at Channel Partners 2024s or anything else you want to add? No, if anybody's interested in becoming a partner, come to Involta.com slash partners and feel free to register. We'll send you some more information for those trusted advisors out there. Again, we work with all of the major TSBs that are out there. So if you have any information or need information, reach out to your regional sales folks, they'll contact us and we're more than happy to help you close in business. Great. Michael, always a pleasure having you here on JSA TV viewers. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of JSA TV here from Channel Partners 2024. Stay curious, stay connected and happy networking.