I'm so delighted to have this opportunity, David, to have a dialogue with you and to share some of the things I've been wanting to ask you and explore with you since we first met a few years ago at the Coastal Miracles Conference in London, where I spotted you, we were both speakers at that conference and I immediately felt a resonance and a recognition and a parallel and a desire to explore that in some dialogue. And so here we are with both of us having new books out, yours called This Moment is Your Miracle and mine called The Way of Grace and it's a joy to be here with you. I'm so grateful. Yeah, I think these moments come along where you can be having this feeling in your heart like wouldn't that be fun, wouldn't that be helpful, wouldn't that be exciting to have a dialogue and to just call on the spirit and it brings in the nuances. That's why I like dialogues and I like to collaborate and I like to be aware of those that are really into the presence and the experience of grace and living in presence. And you know there's a recognition when you eat someone and you feel it immediately and you can feel the devotion, really the devotion is so palpable and that was my experience when we first kind of synchronistically just happened to sit down next to each other in the front row as we're listening to some of the speakers and then it was just like an ongoing opening but yeah I felt such a very very strong recognition at the beginning like oh I know you, I know you. Yeah so I'm just curious it seems that you've been walking the path for many years as have I and you know what prompted you to pen this book now and what was your intention in bringing it to the world? Well a lot of the teachings and the things that I've done have just been shared more in audio-visual people would say you know you're like a talking mystic and I said yeah I love the silence but I am very willing to be spoken through if it brings a blessing and so as I mentioned you when I first met you it's just been so many travels to so many countries and I guess round and round around the world over six continents over decades actually and then I felt like Jesus had told me you know freely you have received now freely give and so basically pretty early on people started recording the dialogues and the satsangs and the gatherings and sessions and then I would put them out on the internet and and then I was more just like a traveling talking mystic not so much into books or writing books or authoring books or anything like that and then people began transcribing the talks like when Krishnamurti or so forth would go and share Yogananda did a lot of traveling and talks and speaking and then thankfully we have recordings and then transcribers and transcriptions and you know you can feel the presence just you know coming behind the words it's so strong but this book is is kind of designed to be very broad reaching you know I know with your book too the languaging is so wonderful because we have even people who endorse the book come from such a wide range from everything for me from quantum physicists to people that are in religion or eastern you know that's kind of a testimony to that we don't really box ourselves in too much with the languaging because the experience is so important to us and so I think that's how the languaging it's a challenge to you know speak from our experience and we all have a cosmology and lineages that have that we've come up out of and that are central and yet language itself can be a real challenge when what the important thing is is pointing people into direct experience and the infinite possibility of everyone to experience grace the living presence of what we all really are and the miraculous truth of you know of existence I find that the languaging will come out in so many different ways as I travel and if somebody had a like a camera or a little bird's-eye view on me they would just laugh because as I'm traveling with Buddhist or with Christians or Hindus or atheists they would see how much fun I have with with with everybody and interestingly enough you asked me about Jesus to me it's a it's a very deep connection to that non-dual presence we really need to love everyone we can't we can't split hairs over theology over cultures over background or even words and that's been what I feel is the most important thing just to feel that presence of love and not let any differences come in our way is only one fabric you know that existence and everything and everyone in existence is made of the same divine fabric that we might call God or unity but that in that divine fabric there are multiple displays multiple forms multiple beings and incredible diversity and that that diversity is not necessarily a problem actually it can be very beautiful so I find it really lovely to recognize that we don't have to stamp out difference so we can appreciate difference when we understand that we're all part of one divine fabric of being and that there is infinite uniqueness in everything that is displayed that can enrich us and help us to learn more see more expand more appreciate more you know discover more of what and who we really are yeah I find it's it's quite amazing when we open up to spirit in the way that we've done and there's such deep presence and of course both you and I have been really looked into the the history of spirituality you know we've been curious like little children looking at the tradition I when I think of us I think of actually those 10 characteristics of teacher of God starting with trust followed by honesty consistency but the last one is open-mindedness and Jesus says that's why it's the last because it's it tends to come in out of all those traits and and I think if you just look at at our languaging at us talking on one hand about Rumi or Nizhikada or Ramana or Jesus it flows and the great Indian saints the huge traditions there it's a very natural to us because because we've been curious and we've been very open-minded and flexible and I find too that we both feel how central grace is we see the value of stillness and rest and silence and surrender but both of us interestingly enough having dealt with the course a pathway that has nine chapters on dedicated to relationships that that we see that as the crucible we see that as the practicality we see that as not just running to the Himalayas and and spending 10 12 15 hours but we see the the speed up the acceleration of allowing that mechanism to be used by the spirit and so I find that even when we met you know we were talking and and then when I read your book it kind of filled in a little more because I had a student many years ago who visited you and Robert over there and she came back from England and she was glowing oh my god I met the most two most amazing people Robert and Miranda and and she was going on and on and then when I met you we talked and then when I read the first chapter of your book about being in that cave um in India maybe around 36 years old and going through a divorce and I just thought there's the crucible because I I could feel like it those nine chapters are saying you know you've come so close to perfect union and oneness with the source you have one hurdle and that's special relationship and you're just so close and and for both of us I think if anybody really read if we had autobiographies or they could really see the whole the whole thing that we went through that that it was actually the it was a cracking open I know that was a point of devastation for you and I've gone through that too and and then suddenly I dropped after I cracked I dropped so deep and I know you did too and that's that's wonderful there are certain things that didn't that I kind of chose to leave on the cutting room floor when I was writing the book and one of them was an unpart for various reasons you know I thought some of it would be unnecessary scary for people but one of the things that you know I was feeling was two years prior to that awakening in the cave I could feel a whole new level knocking on the inner door in my meditations and I felt for a number of years alike I was living on what I was sort of manifesting or living was about 20 percent of my capacity now if I'd spoken that to someone they would have said you're crazy look at what you're doing and but I knew inwardly this this wasn't my lifetimes work you know I had a task to do to set up this seminary but I felt quite suppressed inwardly and I could feel this whole other totality of surrender beckoning and I would feel that knocking in my meditations as if I would almost disappear into a very deep void that we just sort of I go just proof you know and I would notice myself just kind of pulling back from that threshold internally and one point I even you know got curious like how come I'm holding back and I could recognize a fear that it might cost me my marriage if I let myself go there well it did and but there was this point in the cave where there was just enough stopping it you know and it was after that that what it looked like a really wonderful marriage and had been really wonderful marriage and started to come apart and I remember just feeling okay what's needed is just to say yes wherever this is going to trust enough to say yes and I really understood deeply then why the importance of those characteristics of the teachers of God that it always meant a lot to me and that so much of it hinges on our capacity to trust so much of the possibility for another level of surrender or letting go really asks for that could we trust that the pulse of existence is loving goodness that only wants what's best for us and that knows what's best for us and that we can completely yield to that even though it might ask us to let go of something that is precious on an ordinary level and so I was hearing in the middle of the night you know in those days you know I was praying you know help me to really see what the invitation is here so I can say yes and I heard the same voice that spoke in the cave ask me questions and it was the without questions and it went through every single attachment that I had starting with who are you without your marriage who are you without your social standing who are you without home who are you without this country who are you without your friends I mean it did not mince around there wasn't a single attachment that I wasn't asked who are you without that and then finally and that's journaling this course at 2am who are you without Miranda and as I was writing the m of my name the pen ran out and I kind of may have get it this is like hold all that go into what I don't know so it was this amazing period of emptying out that went on for about two years and now that I look back on that period of time I see it as the most extraordinary training because there was nothing left and the only way to deal with everything was just to pray what's needed now in that moment and just do that which meant being radically present and radically attuned and radically humble and radically yielded in and amidst tackling big things and it was in that two years that something very foundational in me changed and the experience being in this world from a very different platform inside but it's such a blessing and provides so much capacity to share because I've looked into ever the things that scared me the most and what I realized is there really is actually nothing to fear which the Course of Miracles has been saying this whole time very simply but you don't know it till you know it yeah yeah I know so it will be such a blessing as we we share this with the world because so many write to me every day every week for for years for decades about what they fear the most and what you've just described is is just facing that with such grace and such surrender and then I always like to to share with everybody as we come out the other side and go oh my gosh I can't believe I was so afraid of of those things at all those were just attachments it's we we laugh but but also the song as you do the sad songs the gatherings I share the presence is radiates through and the beloveds I know you have that same experience like I do that that call you to different parts of the world that that nurture you that love you that that bring such caring that they they light up that this is relationship transformed this these are reflections of a mind that is aligned with with source so the love it just radiates out and the reflections are everywhere and that's what I want people to know that that even though they can be frightened of losing something or frightened of abandonment or rejection those are very common that once you yield it's it's not that experience at all it's it's amazing it's miraculous it's just kind of evolved now where I've been doing almost like like kind of almost like online sad songs like Muji does where I'm on this intimate experience and there's a hundred plus being sprinkled in little sparks of light all over from Australia to Japan to Europe and all around and then and oftentimes people think well it won't be quite the same digitally but then the tears and the breakthroughs and we're all cheering each other on every month and and it's my heart just bursting with joy because you can see even when I get an email of someone saying oh I'm in such a dark place now and you know I wish I could come on and I said come on and then they come on and you see that crack of a smile it comes and my heart just burst open you really feel like wow there's just one of us here and it's so different from that old way of perceiving relationships it's very different I was unsure at first whether the transmission would get through on the online and I have been pleasantly surprised in the power of what is possible through this medium and the blessing of that that gives the possibility for people wherever they are in the world at little or no cost to become part of a global sangha you know to be connected and I feel that there is no such thing as an individual awakening you know there's no such thing as your awakening separate to mine we're going to come home together or not at all you know because awakening means that we evolve beyond just you know me and my you know so I think in that understanding any way that we possibly can form spiritual friendship and community and help one another to engage and practice the better I really enjoy that too because there's like an invitation there even when we travel to know we have a beloved invitation to just go and be engulfed and embraced in that love and rejoice absolutely rejoice that what the spirit is and what the spirit is is extending and to me that that feels so good it doesn't feel like a big wide world anymore it just feels like a huge invitation and I'm always like jumping jumping right in and loving to collaborate I was at the lunch the other day and somebody wrote and said oh I'm I'm on your online movie watchers side of enlightenment and I'm oh my gosh I'm watching movies with you and listening to your commentary and and she said I have a program on it's called quantum conversations podcast would you would you collaborate with me and I said I would love I just wait for those collaborative you know from the heart invitations of where we have a recognition where we feel the joy and and I'm not interested in concepts or proliferating anything in form or anything like that but I do love the heart this way of the heart and and feeling the grace so strong you know that's that's my greatest joy we're just at a place now where the practical experience is everything to us and the concepts are nothing so whether we're out at a diner whether we're talking to somebody who's had their house burned down one of the people in our group was was part of those wildfires in Canada and and she said it's coming close it's getting oh but there it goes my house is burned down so the same kind of things that are happening in these very interesting times but there's that love and that connection and support and nurturing that's there and it doesn't really have anything to do with any of the the concepts of the categories of the world I know if somebody met you like like I sat down at a course of miracles conference and met you but if they met you basically in any context imaginable those characteristics and that presence and those attributes just like it just comes so naturally from you it's who you are and it can't be separated I think that's what happens to us all and it's so profound when we recognize the miraculous process of transformation and it's humbling and we understand what our part is and what's not our part that then more of what we are shines and it's a blessing for everybody yeah yeah it seems to me I'm getting more and more aware of when in a course of miracles it's spoken that this world is backwards and upside down and so things that I had viewed in my life as challenges as struggles as devastations now with this higher perspective I just kind of have a bursting gratitude and I see with my life and I see with your life the way our parables our stories have gone that like you starting off in Australia and I enjoyed hearing all the things you went through in Australia because that was like a whole thing of you know not quite fitting in and I could be up there there that's yeah yeah I could see that and then over to England and the interfaith thing and you know and then the huge crack open and then like feeling oh my gosh I haven't done my life's calling yet I yeah yeah I could just relate and then here now and then with the song as in in San Rafael and Sonoma County and all that area you know it's like it's there's a flowering happening and you can just feel the blessing that even when you were uprooted we'll say from Australia and then uprooted again and then the India experience but but that uprooting I see now is a blessing at the time I was going through my uprooting I didn't big part of the work is just staying in our but staying present and feeling everything and recognizing that you're not going to die from just staying present and feeling everything you you know all of it needs to be met with love and if it's met with love then what is true will shine forth more freely and what was never really true will dissolve and will be seen as an untrue and then it does no power to hurt you and what happens in the process of that is we become wiser and more compassionate in relation to the human condition and everyone else we have more understanding of you know the immensity of what it is to be a human being and the mystery thing incredible opportunity it is to have all of our experiences and the opportunity to learn and grow that who we really are and what really matters from life to me I always seem to talk a lot about divine providence because I mean for the human being and for human beings it seems like that survival thing is so strong and there's so much learning and conditioning that goes into that and then like you said earlier I think trust is actually the key for everything it it allows us to surrender it's not it's not like we have to push something or force something it just that it just grows and to me that's what my experience has been is that it's so many floods of miracles like it it was like a big convincing job to convince me to let go of of concerns around survival even of the daily concerns that that is so heavily conditioned and I find that no matter what I I call the retreats undoing the doer or into the mystic or whatever topics we go at it seems like we get back to that core like for someone saying sentimentally I'm with you I like the vibe of this but here's some things that I just am dealing with on a daily basis and I'm like oh let's go into those and let's really face those and look at those inquiry let's use use the moment to to have inquiry is it really so is it really so and then with that love and that compassion and watching the faces light up all of us light up when we discover that we are we are cared for that we are carried that that divine providence and grace is our inheritance it's it's it's natural for us it's not high in the sky it's not just for the st. Francis and you know mother Teresa it's it's real yeah so one of the things I've found you know I agree with you completely and that you know what really helps in cultivating trust is to allow space for our mistrust to get aired you know because I think you know most people that I speak to they really want to trust but they find it difficult at times you know and I think we all know how that feels and so a question that I'm always giving to my students where which we practice in pairs you know like a repeating question is what limits your capacity to trust the loving goodness underlying your life because so often we think of trust and we think of trusting another person and we all know that you know human beings who aren't fully enlightened are limited in their trustworthiness you know they're not trying to be mean necessarily but the degree to which any of us are caught in our defenses and our fears is going to limit our capacity to be loving and to be you know kind and responsive to one another and so it's not necessarily about placing our trust in the capacity of another to always be a certain way for us because we all know that that might always might not always be so that there are limitations that we all have and that's okay but the trust we need is the trust in the fact that the pulse of life is beneficent that loving presence is very real it is the foundation of everything and you know to flush out our beliefs our concerns our felt sense that that's not so and just to let it air out let it detoxify with our friend in front of us just saying thank you to whatever it is that we say you know just letting it flush out until it flushes out and then we can explore you know what's holding us right now yeah it's like happy dreams come true not because they're real but because they're happy that's the that's the whole thing where it's like a like that mystical moment where everything's vibrating and and you just are fully experiencing it but there's no sense of causation or no sense of otherness with it it's just so all-inclusive and I just love that you're sharing that because this this is I think it's important to take something like you said let's take mysticism off the pedestal let's take mysticism out of the closet let's be truly a hundred percent transparent because why would we want to be anything else and I find when we have no private thoughts no secrets to keep nothing to hide then what flowers the fragrance what comes from that is is so exquisite and it's so effortless it's so natural there there's not any kind of having to do something for it or even to maintain it it's just it's just given yeah yeah oh thank you thank you yeah bless you and thank you just wow thank you so much


Hello everybody, let's talk about what I mean by risk-free. So this membership site is truly risk-free because you only pay per month and you can cancel anytime. So let's just say you sign up for month one. We have different topics, mock exams, teaching videos, live tutoring, PowerPoints, you name it. But then let's say you have learned everything you want to know and you feel confident in taking the board exam. You don't want to pay for another month. You do not have to. You can cancel anytime. Simply send me an email at Andrea at dentall.com. My email is everywhere. You will find it even on the main page. Just let me know why you want to cancel and I will cancel that for you. You can simply say I have learned everything that I have to learn. Please cancel my membership for next month or you might say, you know what, Andrea? I don't want it for month two. Anything you guys let me know and you do not have to pay again for month two. But let me tell you why you probably won't want to cancel because remember how I said every month there are new topics. So month one, if you're a dental hygiene student as an example, we go through oral pathology and radiography. Month two, 30 days later is going to be entirely new topics. So month two is clinical nutrition. We talk about cavities. We talk about ad pie, the dental hygiene process. So there's going to be more mock exams and more case studies, more live tutoring for those topics, PowerPoints and teaching videos. So if you cancel after the first month, you will not have access to month two. You will not have access to clinical theory, cavities, all of my teachings that you have to know to pass the board exam. So this is why it is in your best interest to take the full course over seven months. In seven months, you learn everything you have to know to pass the board exam. Nothing more, nothing less.  Instead of logging in seven months worth of board exam prep right away can be very overwhelming for some people. So it's kind of nice to pay per month. So I do suggest hanging in there studying everything because per month are different topics and you have full access to me any time to ask questions. Every month at the end, you will meet with me online with everybody else where we go over questions, answers. You have that opportunity to ask me anything you like or like anything on that topic. Let's say you need additional clarification on the tongue papilla. You can say, Andrea, I've learned about oral pathology this month. I don't understand the tongue papilla. Can you help me? Can you explain that to me? I am there to help you. So I'm like your own personal tutor. So yes, there is no risk involved because you can't cancel anytime, but as soon as you do cancel, you will lose all access. Makes sense, right? Because if you're not paying for it, then you don't get those topics anymore. But if you continue, you get full access anytime 24 seven. But let's say you do take that seven months with me and you don't pass the board exam. What happens then? You will still have full access for another seven months for no extra cost. So I do like to offer that to people because my goal is to help you pass. Of course. So if you do not pass, you do not have to pay anything extra per month. Seven months, you will still get full access until you take the board exam again to try to learn again. And let me know if you do not pass so I can keep that full access for you so you're not charged anything else. Let me know, you guys, if there are any other questions. I am so excited about this membership site course because it's going to be easier for so many students out there. It's less of a cost per month, but you still get access to what you need to know for the board exam. Let me know, you guys, if any questions. Thank you so much and talk to everybody soon.


The Labour Party's presidential candidate in the 2023 elections, Peter Obise, says there is need for Nigerians to have a leader who keeps to his electoral promises. Speaking in a word, during official Labour Party emo state Gov. candidates campaign flag off Obise, he would change the country, urging the people of the state to vote Labour Party come November 11, Gov. election. That was during the official Labour Party Gov. candidate campaign flag off in emo state. Noir, the event offered the Labour Party chieftains the opportunity to clear the and who is the authentic national chairman of the party. Hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


episode of In the Studio. We're here today with Leslie Crenna of WaterWise Davis. She's also the communications coordinator for Cool Davis. And we're here to talk about the Grey Water Showcase that's upcoming in July and what the Grey Water Recycling is. So could you tell us a little bit about that, Leslie? Absolutely, Alex. So Grey Water is discharge water from your washing machines and from your showers and kitchen sink bathroom sinks. Okay, and what is the recycling part of it? So typically when you use water in your home it goes to the sewer and it goes to our wastewater treatment plant here in Davis. So ideally in an effort to reuse that water because it is a useful resource, that water is redirected to your landscape typically and it can be used to water, you know, a variety of plants in your garden. Okay, and so what is the, how does that process occur? Obviously there's some equipment and things that are used. There is. In fact I brought one of the primary pieces of equipment that is used. This is called a three-way valve. It's typically used for pool and spa equipment, but it's very useful for Grey Water. So the way that this valve is set right now, water actually either goes, it goes in here from your, in this case, laundry, laundry washer and it can travel in here and then go out this way or if you move the handle there the water can go in here and travel out this way. Okay, so you take the wastewater from your laundry or from your shower. That's right. Obviously the things, not the sewage from your toilet system or whatever. So in California, like I said Grey Water is defined as water from your washer or your shower or your bathroom sinks and kitchen water is is defined as black water. So kitchen water cannot be used. Well actually it's considered light Grey Water and then toilet is black water. Black water, okay. And so does this water require any treatment or does it just go straight out into your garden? So there are different types of systems. The simple and lowest tech system, you can discharge the water directly to the landscape without any filtering or pumps or anything like that. There also are higher tech systems where you can filter and pump the discharge water and use it for drip and spray irrigation after that. If spray, if you do some UV treatment. But all of that adds a lot of expense and equipment and then you sort of lose the benefit and the value of the resources that you put into the system. So we try to stick with and encourage people in Davis and everywhere to stick with those lower tech systems. Okay. And are there any things that people should avoid putting in their grains and stuff? Absolutely. Yeah absolutely. So for a washing machine there are special detergents that are the main quality that you need to use for your laundry detergent is that it has no sodium in it or is very low in sodium because plants don't like salt. It kills them. If you want to kill a plant put some salt water on it.  Right so no bleach no oil or gas if you're you know you have rags or if you're working on your car that kind of thing you don't want to wash those and put that on your landscape. You don't want to use chlorine bleach. There are other kinds of I've heard of people talk about oxygen bleach. There's other which is basically hydrogen. Well hydrogen peroxide is a really great stain remover and that's fine for the gray water system and for the garden. And that's why you'd want this valve so that when you had different types of loads you can send some through the regular system. So the point of the valve is to be code compliant and for health purposes. So you can if the valve is set one direction the water is going to the landscape and if the valve is set the other direction it's going to the sewer. So you still have that ability of say there's flooding which of course we had a lot of flooding this last season. You have that ability to send the water to the sewer if you need to. Okay well let's talk a little bit about this gray water showcase that waterwise has organized. When let's see well let's start with when it's occurring. Okay so we're having a gray water showcase at the senior center here in Davis on July 12th which is a Wednesday evening from 5.30 to 7.30 and it is sponsored by Waterwise Davis which is now working group of Cool Davis and full disclosure one of my other hats is communications coordinator for Cool Davis. So my rolls dovetail there nicely. And we're having we have support from the City of Davis with this. The City of Davis is providing us the facility and they're doing some from helping us do promotions and they're also sponsoring some door prizes where we are going to be giving away two laundry gray water parts kits which will be sort of the essential parts including one of these and some of the other parts that are challenging to get just at the local hardware store. Okay and I know you have a sort of a big lineup of speakers. You have the Mayor Pro Tem, Brett Lee coming. That's right. Who else will be there to provide information to people who are curious about gray water recycling? Yeah so just to sort of go chronological through the program Paul Havenman is with UCD land management. He's going to be our master of ceremonies and open up the event and then Brett Lee, Mayor Pro Tem and Council Member will be there to give some comments at the beginning. Then we're going to have a general short presentation that's just a general overview of gray water so that people can come who really are very new to the concept and kind of come away at least even from that part. Having an idea of the general sense there's two basic kinds of systems and what the parts are and what your design considerations are so that'll be a short segment. Then we're going to have a panel and the panel is going to be system owners, people who have gray water systems at their home and they're going to basically introduce themselves and talk a little bit about you know how they got their system and what it's like to operate their system and how it's impacted their landscape and their water use. Okay and then after the panel we're having open tabling so we're actually going to have open tabling at the beginning and at the end and Greg Mahoney who is the Chief Building Officer for the City of Davis will be available to ask code questions and Don Calciano will also be available who's our conservation coordinator for the City of Davis who specializes in water so she can answer questions about water conservation in general and we are also planning on having some vendors and providers of services around gray water so there'll be opportunities for that and members of Waterwise Davis will be there to answer design questions. Some of our members are certified in gray water installation and design and are able to answer those kind of questions and we're in the next month we're putting together a little demo so not a fully functioning system but some you know just some props to help people get an idea of what the parts of the system are and how it works. Okay and I understand Robin Waxman of Farm Davis will also be there to answer questions about maybe using this to irrigate your garden. So Robin Waxman has a laundry system out at Farm so she'll be on our panel and I've asked all the panelists to be available at those tabling periods also so that there'll be time for kind of downtime to chat one-on-one as well to get an idea of you know what's it like to have a system you know who put it in how how well what did it cost how difficult was it and how easy was it and you know are your trees really happy what does your landscape look like. Okay and this is an open event right anybody? Absolutely open to the public completely free no cost whatsoever in fact there's some prizes so you might come away with on the plus side. Okay so that's where people can find out more about these systems now I noticed on the website that you recently posted a blog post about why should people still be concerned about conserving water we just had a winner there was a record rainfall before that we did have drought so why is conserving water and this still important. Right so cool Davis website has an event post about the showcase so you can go there to get information about the showcase and it also has an article about water conservation and honestly there has been a little bit of a drop-off in interest in conserving water and reusing water which is gray water is considered reuse because of this flooding that we had this winter but you know according to scientists and our governor who has has issued quite a bit of legislation and a plan for water into the future we need to start planning for cycles of drought and flood and you know our past five and six years have shown obviously that that is the case that we had a five year drought and then we had a year of flood and so you know it is a demotivator for folks when there's so much water but at the same time we could be starting another drought this year another cycle of that's right another cycle of drought water and yes the reservoirs are full but long term the state of California and Davis and compliance with the state is going to be having restrictions and water use and what's really amazing about through the drought we've used 11 million gallons of water a day in the city of Davis before the drought and when we cut back in the low 30s was sort of our average over the period of the drought we cut that to nine million gallons just by people can you know converting their lawns a few gray water systems just you know some better habits like you know turning down when you run the water on your on your sink just you don't have to pull it full blast just you know on a little bit and watering your lawns appropriately only watering ten minutes and then and then cycling off and then ten minutes and those kinds of techniques three million gallons of water we saved and the even though there has been more water this past year the state conservation regulations in the city of Davis are still going to be enforcing that's right water conservation regulations so the state is working on long-term usage restrictions basically and and when those get formulated Davis will be required to implement them okay and we're getting close to the end so let's wrap up by talking about what benefits someone can expect from installing these types of systems so so great water is a little different from our regular water and that it has a little bit of nutrient in it and it's it's slightly base in its pH so it it's a great source for your landscape it's a daily source because it's coming from showers and laundry and typically you know you're going to be using that water on a regular basis you're gonna save on your water bill and you're going to you know use less water obviously which is good for our environment and and the general restrictions and you know outdoor watering is takes a huge quantity of water and it really connects people with how much water we use because typically in the past we have had this ethic of just blowing through water because it's free it's it's so inexpensive and the reality is it's not free and and it costs the city of Davis a good deal of money to provide that well they just spend millions on the surface water project that's right and and that comes back to us in taxes and other fees and so we really are saving water not just on our bill but on infrastructure costs in our community and and it just builds our resilience as a community as well okay well is there anything else you'd like to add I know there's also still a rebate I believe if you convert your lawn to a more drought tolerant that's right it uses less water to begin with the state of California has an extremely generous lawn turf conversion rebate which is $2 per square foot and even if you're paying for a landscape contractor to do you know a typical you know not doing it yourself paying someone fully to do it that can that can cover almost half the cost so it's very generous rebate and yes let's go to save our water org and you can get that rebate okay anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up come on down to the showcase it's it's going to be a good time it's there's not going to be a lot of sitting around there's going to be a lot of interaction one-on-one and talking really getting to talk to people that have had you know had these systems at their home they know what they're like and they understand the benefits and you might get a free water kit for your laundry system okay well thank you very much Leslie thanks Alex that wraps up another episode of in the studio thank you for joining us and we'll see you next time


Hi again, everyone. Thank you for joining us for the latest event in our spirituality series. My name is Jessica Colligan, and I'm happy to welcome you on behalf of Fairfield Alumni Relations Office. With me this evening are Father Jim Bowler, who many of you know from his decades of service to the Fairfield community, and Father Frank Hannafi, who was also a member of our community for many years, and he is now in Philadelphia at Old St. Joseph's Church. We are so grateful and really very lucky that both of them have stayed connected to and involved with the university, and we're just so happy to have both of them with us tonight. Before we kick things off, I want to ask that you please make sure your microphones are muted to minimize any distractions. And I also recommend that you use the speaker view in Zoom rather than gallery view just to make sure that your screen stays focused on our featured speakers. Finally, we encourage you to use the chat. If you have any questions for Father Hannafi, we will do our best to get to as many of them as possible if time allows at the end of the conversation. And now I will turn things over to Father Bowler. Thank you very much. It's actually a pleasure for me to interview Frank tonight. I would just like to make, I knew Frank very well when we were at Fairfield. I'd like to just stress three points about him that really impressed me. One was his competence as a theologian and as a professor, and how seriously he took that. But then he had a certain balance in his life. There was the artist. It was something that he did extremely well. And finally, there was that Jesuit marches, the effort he put in in learning Chinese, so he could go to China. So you couple of those three things, and you encounter a rather extraordinary Jesuit. And so Frank, let me begin by saying, asking you the question, how did you meet the Jesuits. Thank you very much, Jim, for that very kind introduction and also just before I talk about how I first met the Jesuits just would like to thank all of you for coming tonight. That's very wonderful to see so many of my Fairfield friends, a special thanks also to Jessica Colligan and also to Janet Kanapa for inviting me tonight. How did I meet the Jesuits. How long do you have, I would say, actually, my way into the Jesuits and meeting the Jesuits might have been somewhat an indirect path, I might say. For example, I never went to a Jesuit school or Jesuit parish growing up. In fact, I would say that my vocate what what I felt or at least experience to be the early movements or inklings of a vocation for me probably got very serious when I was about a sophomore university student, and I wrote a letter actually to the Jesuits expressing what I thought was some interest. Interestingly, I initially for me it was kind of feeling a call to the priesthood. And I was maybe considering the diocesan group and then there were a couple other groups I was looking at. For example, the Holy Cross Fathers who are Notre Dame and then, and then I wrote to the Jesuits in Boston, and I, a couple weeks later I got a letter from the one and only Father Joseph McCormick, who many of you may know who was at Fairfield years and I was a student up in New Haven and at the State University up there and he said I was I'm coming down to Fairfield, Connecticut. Would you like to come down in and meet me and have a conversation. So I said sure so I the first Jesuit I ever met actually was Father Joseph McCormick on Fairfield University's campus, which is when I think about how much the trajectory of my life how how fascinating that was because I ended up of course spending many years at Fairfield. And in fact I can even remember the first place I, I met him, and that was in the old Bellarmine Hall, which when it was serving as the Jesuit community. And I met Father McCormick there and in what I think in the old days was maybe the library.  And then he listened very patiently and then he just looked at me and had one question and said, Do you pray. Anyway, after that he invited me to enter the Jesuit candidacy program. And, and at that time I got to know a couple Jesuits by attending some of those meetings. And then my believe it or not my spiritual director before I entered was a very well known Jesuit in the new Old England province father, Jack post Father john post, who was injured in the Great Shadow Brook fire. And he at that time was at Fairfield, and I remember I would drive down from the haven and, and visit him occasionally when I was still a candidate for the society. And, and that kind of led me into it I took my time, I, I graduated from college, and then I think about a year and a half and a half after I graduated from college, or so then I entered the Jesuits and went into the immediate in Boston at the, the infamous 300 Newberry street was where we had our novitiate in those days. So basically, I kind of entered the Jesuits through some personal contacts with Father Joe McCormick Father john post. And then I began to meet some of the other guys in those days, who were interested in the Jesuits. So again my case is a little unique and that I never went to a Jesuit school never went to a Jesuit parish. The one thing that really attracted me to the Jesuits was the kind of work they did, both in education and in missionary work, and I found them just to be really impressive guys and so that's kind of how I entered in. I was one of my classmates maybe some of you may know him, because he does have some Fairfield you ties. I entered the novitiate on the same day with Father Andrew Garaville. He and I were novice together at 300 Newberry street, and he and I were everywhere in the society together until we were sent off to theology. Sometimes they used to call us the Frank and Andy show. We became good friends and still are. And some of the other guys I was with Father john Savard Father Greg Chisholm. And a whole whole interesting list of people but that's kind of the short version of how I found my way in to the Jesuits and you know what's the old saying. I'm not sure what I would I think of a group that would have someone like me as a member, but it seems to have worked out, you know, I, I've been a Jesuit since 1981. I was ordained to the priesthood in 1993. I spent a good number of years at Fairfield I was in Chicago and Berkeley California. And then down in Central America for my novice experiment in Belize, which was formerly British Honduras and then, and then I started getting interested in China but I think we'll talk about China later but I, I spent time both in Hong Kong and a Beijing and other parts of China. But, but probably my home base. Definitely my home base as a Jesuit that where I spent the longest amount of time, maybe aside from studies, being in school forever but was that Fairfield and Fairfield University in fact I had two major assignments at Fairfield. My agency period was at Fairfield from 1986 to 1989 I believe it was, and, and then I returned after graduate studies and after ordination graduate studies and I began teaching in the Religious Studies Department in 1998. Fairfield is in many ways been my home in the Jesuits in the US and I have a, I still can't believe I'm not there sometimes I wake up in the morning and I kind of. Maybe this was after dealing with jet lag from China, the first few minutes when you wake up after flying back and forth to China you're not really sure where you are. And sometimes I almost feel like I'm back at Fairfield but I'm here in Philadelphia now so. Let me ask you this question okay because you made a decision to get a doctorate in theological ethics at Lyola. What was behind that decision Frank, and can you say something about your doctoral work in preparation for coming to Fairfield. Sure thank you Jim sure you know it's funny, I think in many ways my academic kind of interest began. Well, ultimately I think it began in my family my parents always encouraged us you know in studies and learning. And I, when I was an undergraduate I, I had a double major in economics and religious studies and kind of an unusual combination of course. And after my philosophy studies in Chicago, after the division, the Jesuits gave me the permission to go and get a, an MBA degree, which I did in Chicago in finance and marketing that was like a two year program to your full time program so I went from philosophy into MBA studies, because I, I really thought I kind of felt drawn and attracted to business people, and wanting to figure out a way to somehow minister to business people. My father was a business person and I, many of my uncles and aunts and my, my two brothers went into business and a business was always kind of in my life. I felt drawn to business people from any ways for their, to their creativity and their focus and all and also their importance in the world. So I somehow I really think it came out of my prayer ultimately but, but I felt this kind of attraction to learn the language of business, if you will, and finance and marketing. So I went off and did this MBA program. And when I was in the MBA program, and then when I was teaching at Fairfield back in the business school as part of my Regency, I began to feel drawn to questions of business ethics. And so my friend and colleague Larry Vitellano and Donna Larry and I have done some research together in business ethics over the years and so this interest in business ethics got going. And that kind of kind of continued for some years so then when I went out to Berkeley for theology studies prior to ordination, you know I took some really good courses in Catholic social thought with John Coleman and others and I began trying to look at in my own reading and the, the intersections between, you know, the church's mission in the world and in economic life. I mean certainly one of the things that, you know, Catholic social teaching has to deal with has to do with his, you know addressing questions of, of the social and political dimensions of, of the world and human life. And so I got very interested in those questions and I became very interested in questions of economic justice and I wrote my, I was very captivated by the US bishops pastoral letter on the US economy that came out in 1986. Economic justice for all in fact I wrote one of my theses in Berkeley, my so called fourth year thesis on on that on the principle of immigration in, in Catholic social thought. So while I was in both in Regency and also in theology studies. I just became very interested in questions of economic ethics and business ethics so I wanted to continue with it.  You know at that point I've been in formation for like, you know, how many years, gosh, I think it was like about 17 years or something. And then that but then I decided that I really wanted to do to get a PhD in in in theological ethics so that I could find a way to work with business people and and on another level also help the church I think. And the Jesuits be able to be in dialogue with, you know, those kinds of questions and to be able to, you know, deal with those questions so anyway I went off to Loyola Chicago and I did a degree there in theological ethics with a focus on business ethics. And I had a, you know, both my program was both in the theology department and the in the graduate school of business. I worked a lot with this guy, John Boatwright, who is the Raymond Baumhardt Professor of business ethics at Loyola Chicago. I ended up using his book for many years at Fairfield in a business ethics and you know taught pretty much every year. And I had a course in business ethics for Fairfield you students. So anyway, it kind of Jim I guess that's a long answer but I would say that it just a kind of a number of things came together in my formation, both academically and also in the Jesuits and quite frankly another part of it for me was, you know, when I was down in Central America and then when I was in Berkeley there were just you know the problems of homelessness. And that's an example and, which is a huge problem here in Philadelphia, right now, we're very near to where the church is right now where I work. So I think it was both academic questions but then also my life is a Jesuit, you know, thinking that that if I was going to be able to say or do anything that's reasonable in in those questions that I had to, you know, get the training and and the Jesuits said yes to it. One of my brothers called me. He had been in corporate America for quite a few years I was about turning 40 years old when I began my full time tenure track teaching position at Fairfield you, and my brother called me on my first day and said I want to congratulate you, you're just about turning 40 and you finally have a full time job, and you're not in school anymore. So, it was kind of a long, long but interesting road but, but I also found that it made sense. You know, and then it kind of opened many doors for me personally just to be able to be with Fairfield you undergraduates for many years and as I worked at Fairfield I also found that a major part of my work was with the faculty there. And being in dialogue with faculty I was on the pretty much ever since I had been there on the applied ethics, what do they call it the applied ethics committee or something council, but I worked a lot with David Schmidt in applied ethics and developing programs and courses and, and with, you know, some of the great business faculty there and others so I would say that, you know, it kind of worked out for me but, but then I made a decision by the way. To after about I guess about nearly a total of 25 years of Fairfield if you count my Regency period that I, as I was getting a little older I you know kind of felt that I kind of wanted to do something else and, and that's kind of how the China thing got going but before look before we get to China let me just make one comment and then ask you a question about Fairfield comment that I can't help but notice is your two majors as an undergraduate economics and religion, you know, and that kind of has been your intellectual history of since your undergraduate years, the relationship between the two. I think so. But I'd like to getting to your time at Fairfield, could you talk about some of the other highlights you have during your 25 years at Fairfield. I know the applied ethics was your love and very important contribution but just some other memories that you might have. Sure, Jim, thank you for the question and, first of all, I, I really felt and still feel in many ways that Fairfield was and is my home in the, in the Jesuits in the US and I don't know if any Jesuits ever have a home. I lived, well, there's so many things I could talk about I, I lived in the residence halls for many years as I know you did Jim as well and I see Charlie Allen there is a resident Jesuit for many years I many of us lived in the dorms so you know a major part of my life. I lived in the Tosca Hall for many years and then afterwards up at Dolan Hall. And I would first of all say just life with the students, you know was just a wonderful highlight. You know students outside of the classroom in all the joys and, and celebration of that and also some challenges I, you know certainly remember on a number of occasions the tragic loss of some students. I remember Alex Carrion, for example, who happened to be was my student who was in the Ignatian College program, who died suddenly in a sleep one night from some kind of, I believe it was a heart issue. I also another major highlight for me I was kind of on the ground floor, one of the original persons faculty persons who was involved with the Ignatian residential college. I was invited to kind of teach in that and taught in that for a good number of years. You know working with students who sort of kind of selected to be in that program, which and they were just extraordinarily extraordinary young women and men. So I the first thing I would say Jim would be the would be the Jesuits. I'm sorry would be the students, you know working with the students both inside and outside of the classroom. Gosh, there's so many wonderful memories. I would say another part of it for me was being close to New York City. I think that my father was born to raise in New York, and I have family and friends in New York City so I would you know jump on the train on the weekends and get into the city like many people at Fairfield and I would say that was also kind of a highlight in my time at Fairfield as well and and often I remember early in my time at Fairfield we would run programs for high school students and we would take them into events in New York. The college so called college access program was something we did early on. I know I was doing that. I think in the mid 80s. I would also say, working with some of the questions around Jesuit mission and identity. As you know very well Jim, you know, I know when you were doing a lot of that work. You know, Jesuits who worked in the university like Father Alan yourself and others, you know, we would be involved often with in conversations with faculty, and with staff and I remember when Father von Arks was president, and when he came in. He, you know, he kind of started pushing that question I think pretty hard and, you know, there were lots of wonderful conversations and retreats, you know weekend retreats and events with with faculty. Yeah, there's so there's so many things and, and I would also say, working with my colleagues in the religious studies department as well was a really important highlight of my first of all they put up with me for so many years. And at one point I probably because probably most of them didn't want to do the job I remember at one point, they asked me to be the chair of the religious studies department and, you know, so I was working kind of managing that department and the adjuncts in that department and then working with the administration and all that was also kind of a highlight as well I would say, you know, in a way being able to serve my, my faculty colleagues in that way. I think I spent a lot of time in meetings during those years. This was pre zoom. So all most of those meetings were in person and I remember I served on the, I think it's called the undergraduate curriculum committee, and I remember some of those conversations when conversations were heating up about the core curriculum and everything in the early days, you know, and so luckily I was not. I was not part of those more, at least directly part of those more recent discussions where, you know, basically discussions around the core really essential in all universities so you know I was involved in that early on and so there are many highlights Jim but I would say ultimately working with the students you know I love being with them in the classroom. I love being with them in the residence halls. And, you know, there was a sense of really being a Jesuit on the campus as well. I think one of the challenges I would just mention, I mentioned my little escapes to New York. One of the challenges probably was, you know, being on the campus.   I'm also saying masses by the way in Egan Chapel I was pretty active in, you know, doing that over the years and so one of the things I found to try to be healthy or at least to try to stay healthy was to make sure I at least once a week, kind of got off the compound and so I would, you know, sometimes jump on the train and go into New York and or go up to New Haven I used to love the museums up in New Haven and but, and at that point my mother and father were living down in South Florida so I would you know get on a plane and go down to visit them a couple times a year in Florida. And, but it just you know it was a wonderful wonderful time in my life really being at Fairfield. You talked about your how much you enjoyed being with students. I remember during semester exams, how when you were living in Costco how you used to go out and get donuts and coffee for them to help fortify them to study for the evening you know I used to marvel you doing that I would go out they would give me a budget the university would give me a budget of, you know, whatever the number was. And so, so I would do to flee spend that you know running programs. I did feel a little guilty about that Jim, basically plying the students with caffeine and sugar. And I used to tease them that I would get larger numbers of them coming to the Dunkin Donuts study break social, more of them coming to that and I would to mass in the, in the lounge. So, but they were pretty good about coming to mass in the lounge to. Yeah, it was a really nice way to, to meet the students during the exam period and to be with them, you know, kind of informally, and also it was kind of a nice way, especially at the end of the semester to kind of say goodbye to them if you know if they were leaving the dorm, you know, or if they were graduating or, you know, moving to another dorm or whatever. So it was kind of a nice closure thing so I tried to do it at least a couple times this semester and they loved it and I would go around and put up signs and everything and, of course they thought it was wonderful I would, you know, like, fill up the backseat of my car with a couple of dollars worth of, you know, those boxes of Joe and, you know, tons of donuts and stuff but yeah it was really fun. And, but I did occasionally feel guilty about the caffeine and the sugar, but, but hopefully they didn't do that every day. Let's move on to China because I remember, in addition to the all your full time commitments there, just taking a course with undergraduates in the Chinese language, you know, and just how hard you worked at that. And so perhaps to say something about your interest in China, how you left Fairfield for China, and anything else you'd like to say about all that. Thank you Jim, sure. I've been interested in China for many years, I think in a way it kind of began initially with some of my visits to Chinatown and Manhattan over the years I would you know, often I'd be alone and I'd walk through Chinatown and I would see the signs, the Chinese language on signs for stores and restaurants, etc. And I was kind of captivated by the visual culture, the visual language, but then also I found it to be this kind of other world that I felt really attracted to. I don't know whether it was the kind of Buddhist like quality or the kind of inner quiet that many people from Asia kind of exude. There was a certain kind of spirituality and goodness ultimately that and mystery I would also say that I experienced in the Chinese people. And I also became initially fascinated with Chinese calligraphy like when I would go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York and go into the China galleries there I would you know look at this calligraphy. And most Chinese calligraphy is, you know, based on the characters of the Hanze, they call it the characters from the Chinese language and many of those characters are actually quite ancient. And so I began to just kind of on my own a little bit, you know, got some books and things and began to study some of the characters. And then I, maybe this happened by the way after I served as department chair I had a little more time so my dear friend Xi Wei Xiao who is still at Fairfield University she's a modern language professor in in Chinese language she's from Wuhan, China, originally, I called her one day and asked if I could come over and speak with her and asked if I could maybe audit or take her class in Chinese language so I began studying with her in in Chinese, the Chinese language and you know it's kind of plotted along at it I think for a while.  I met this Jesuit, Stefan Rothland who's a Jesuit from Switzerland originally, who was working in Beijing and in Hong Kong and he worked in business ethics. And I became into I got in touch with him, and he needed some help in Hong Kong. So I basically packed up and went to Hong Kong for about a year and a half on a research sabbatical. And so, and I continued my studies in Mandarin while I was in Hong Kong, although, of course in Hong Kong they speak Cantonese Guangdong Wah they call it. But um, so I was working and interestingly I was working in this business ethics organization in Hong Kong, and also studying Chinese language at the same time. And then I made some trips up into Beijing and in other parts of China I have some friends who live in Guizhou province of China in near the city of, actually in the city of Guiyang, which is in, it's kind of next to Szechuan province it's in, I guess you'd call it Southwest China. And so anyway my first introduction really to China was through this sabbatical year that I had in base primarily in Hong Kong. And it kind of, and then I made some trips up into the mainland I very much remember my first visits into the mainland. And I, I just loved it, I felt so drawn to it and, in fact there was a Jesuit originally from France who was a missionary. He died a couple years ago, who he wrote in Buddhism, a lot in Buddhism. His name was Christopher Cochini actually he's very well known for some of the things he wrote in Buddhism. He used to come to Hong Kong about one week a month, because his visa only allowed him to stay for three weeks that's kind of how they, he was controlled up there by the anyway I won't go into all that but he asked me how I felt after my first visit into the mainland I told him I couldn't wait to go back and he started laughing and says I see Frank that you've now have the China virus. Meaning that people who are interested in China once you go there, the virus kind of gets into your body by the way not a virus to hurt you. Like the virus we've been dealing with the past 14 months but rather your interest and your love of China kind of increases many times over after being there and of course I made friends there and you know I kept speaking trying anyway to speak Chinese and it really helps a lot of course to be able to communicate with people in their own language of course. And so I kept trying even though my tones weren't the best all the time you know I would just keep practicing and talking with people as often as I could in Chinese and anyway so that's that was my first kind of connection really in a serious way with China, and then I came back to Fairfield and you know was working at Fairfield for a couple years, and then I would go back to China in the summers. And then Father von Arks invited me to go over once or twice to to for with a couple programs for Fairfield students over there. With Donka Lee, I think I went over a couple times with Professor Donka Lee from the history department. That was mostly during the summers and then after I would usually go down to Hong Kong after our program, but then kind of out of the blue. You know at that point I was thinking that maybe I should do something different in my Jesuit life. And I my prayer kind of was, well Lord, I'm not sure about any of this I mean if you want me to stay at Fairfield. I have a wonderful life at Fairfield. And then I had a meeting with Father John Cicero the provincial. He asked me if I would be willing to go to Beijing, because they really needed a Jesuit in Beijing at the Beijing Center for Chinese studies. And he asked me this directly. And I, you know, I must say it was a little startling but more when I think about it it actually made sense. I mean the Jesuits in China in fact Stephen Chow who was just elected the Bishop of Hong Kong perhaps some of you have been reading about that I know Stephen very well. Stephen and others, you know, we're looking for a Jesuit for the Beijing Center. In fact, Father Gene Geinser, who was there for many years who I know Larry and Donna know very well personally was coming back to the US after about 12 years in Beijing. He really needed a Jesuit in Beijing. And I guess they were probably going down the list of American Jesuits, who could possibly do it. And so the provincial asked me to go to Beijing. And, you know, so funny when he asked me, I said well John that's very interesting. This was by by the way before all the unrest in Hong Kong, and all the protests in the street. So, John started wiggling in his chair this was the provincial of the my province at that time. And he said well Frank, I mean I know you like Hong Kong but we really need you in Beijing. So I said okay John let me think and pray about it for a couple days. So I called them and said okay I'm ready to go. And within six I forget when all this happened, maybe in January, or maybe late fall. And then that summer. I went to Beijing and, you know, for a long term mission in Beijing at the Beijing Center for Chinese Studies. And I think I spoke to many people at Fairfield about that experience, simply to say that in my prayer, I would say that it, I would say that the ultimate part of that discernment really was, you know, those years of and experiences of being attracted to China and drawn to China. And I must say that I, I still feel that you know if the Jesuits asked me to go back again I, I love being here at the parish but you know I, I think I'd go. Please don't tell Father Provincial that at least right now. But, you know, it's hard I felt, I feel the have felt and feel the, you know the church really needs to be there somehow. It's very difficult. But I would say that ultimately it had to do with this kind of mysterious feeling of attraction to the Chinese people, and to their faith, and to the church there, even in all of its struggle and you know, and it was kind of, it's where I think I needed to be and then of course I was over there and that's a whole other story but things got very complicated of course in China and the relations between the US and China and that's a whole long story but so anyway that's how I got there I'd say it was my attraction, my interest, my confirmation in prayer, and then ultimately the direct question of my provincial to go. And, you know, I felt that the good Lord was leading me there somehow and, you know, that's kind of how it happened and you'd still be there if it weren't for some visa problems. I think so, yes, I would very likely Jim still be there. Basically, the reason I came back after a little under two years, I probably spent a total of about three and a half years in China. Probably, if you counted all up maybe about four years. But basically I'm pretty sure that, you know the way that things are managed over there. Basically I had trouble renewing my visa. And I think part of that had to do with the complex very tense relationship between both the US and China at that time. And also some things that were going on in the university where I was the, where the Beijing Center was located, and there were also some kind of inter political things going on in the Beijing Center for Chinese studies as well, which was the the Jesuit that I was asked to go to to try to help. And, but yes, and, but it's a wonder was a absolutely wonderful experience, difficult but wonderful I would say, and I'm still in touch with a good number of my people over there my contacts over there and so yeah. Oh, how did you get to Philadelphia city of brotherly love. Oh, great question Jim. Thank you. Well, basically Johnson Sarah when it became clear that I pretty much had to leave China. I was in a conversation actually with Stephen Chow, the Bishop elect of Hong Kong. Who studied in the US and who's from Hong Kong originally he at that point was my provincial superior in in China. And so, you know, with some other judge what's over there. Basically, when it became clear that I had to leave. I had some communications and with maybe even a phone call with Johnson Sarah, who was then the provincial of the province of the recently discharged New York and New England province. And John, you know, said to me said Frank, you know, I know you've just had a very intense complicated experience in China. He said, as a transitional period, what do you think about coming back to New York City to help at St Ignatius Loyola Church in New York on the east side in the parish there. I really needed a priest, and I was available at that point I was still discerning my decision, you know, trying to decide whether I ultimately would return to Fairfield Fairfield was very wonderful to me they communicated that they wanted me to come back to the faculty. They all had tenure at Fairfield. And, you know, Dr Mark Nemek and my colleagues in the department and Christine Siegel the provost at that time and I think I think she may have been the AVP at that time I'm not sure what her exact title was but anyway they all wanted me to come back but I wasn't sure if that was the right thing to do. I was just a sero and plus I was, you know, you know, probably dealing with all kinds of culture shock and all kinds of other things. But I came back pretty tired but john asked me if I would go to St Ignatius in New York, and then I was there for maybe about four and a half five months. And john's the provincial office was right around the corner from the from the parish air of course so then I had a number of meetings with the provincial.  And he said at old St Joseph church, and you know I came down here for a visit. And so then I that's kind of how I ended up here I, I said yes to that invitation and, and then it so happens. This past January, the pastor of the parish here left the parish and then since that time they've asked me to be the administrator of the parish. So it's been very very interesting it's a wonderful parish to blocks from Independence Hall and the old part of the city and the old so called old, well I guess he would call it society hill and the old historic district of Philadelphia it's a very old church was founded by the Jesuits in 1733 it's the oldest Roman Catholic Church and the first Roman Catholic Church in the city of Philadelphia, and actually probably one of the oldest churches in Catholic churches in America. I think there are a couple others that are a bit older. So one of the original Jesuit missions into the city of Philadelphia, you know it's funny whenever I think about the church here. It was founded in 1733, and that was even before the United States of America was founded, you know, in terms of, you know, 1776 so it has a very long, long history here and it's a wonderful church, a very diverse community. Very interesting interesting community and so I'm basically trying my hand now at running a parish. And it's a lot of fun tough to you know, we're in the budget cycle right now so we're trying to get the budget all lined up, but doing a lot of preaching a lot of work with parishioners and we run a very vibrant and active outreach program to the homeless here we have a meal for the homeless. Three days a week. We do lots of other things with the homeless. We also have a hospital ministry here pencil University of Pennsylvania hospital is a couple blocks away from us so we do a lot of work with Penn hospital. So I become a parish priest now in a way and running this parish and really interesting, you know very a tremendous amount of involvement by lay women and men here. So in many ways I often say that they're, they're allowing me to collaborate with them. You know we talk a lot about Jesuit collaboration but lots of great people in the community here so it's been a lot of fun. And it's very interesting being in Philadelphia to and I can walk to the Chinatown in Philadelphia, which is about 15 minutes from here from the parish and so there's great Chinese food. And some made some Chinese friends here so yeah it's a wonderful city but of course, it's also been a very difficult 14 months here as I know it's been for all of you. So I'm trying to figure out how to keep a parish going during the pandemic and, you know, adapting to all of the protocols for cobit and, and then a financially trying to keep the parish going obviously whoever invented the idea of online I really want to thank them, but we're basically okay many parishes who've not had electronic office Tory, you know contributions to the parish or real trouble now financially, but we've been able to our, the parish parishioners here and our friends, the friends of the parish. It's something called the historical preservation corporation which I kind of run as the administrator, you know, because we have this very very old, excuse me, very old historic church. So we have a lot of obligations to keep the church, you know, going and it's also, you know, a historical landmark, you know, it has all kinds of landmark restrictions on it and everything so, you know, it's a very very interesting place I hope you come down to visit sometime, be happy to give you a tour. It's a very beautiful church. I get the sense that you're energized by what you're doing there. Thank you, Jim. Yes, I am. I really am. You know, I came to, it was very hard for me to decide to, you know, kind of conclude my work at Fairfield it was just a wonderful and is still a wonderful part of my life. But I felt that I was coming to the age, you know, if I didn't make a kind of, I also would say to, by the way, it wasn't, you know, as you get a little bit older I don't know if I was ever good in the classroom but only my students maybe could say that but I also, as you get a little older, you know, the students kind of, I would, I learned over the years teaching college students that about every three to five years they go through some kind of major transition or change. And I think for many years I was getting that change I was understanding them. And then they're my last couple years at Fairfield. I think I was kind of a little bit at sea, quite frankly understanding my new batch of students and I think it was, it wasn't them it was me. I wasn't, I was, I was like they're, I was old enough to be their grandparent, of course, and I love them, but I also felt that, you know, that there, I wasn't as quite frankly I don't know if I was as sharp in the classroom as I was in my earlier days, you know, and I was thinking that, you know, also I had a tenure position there, you know, maybe it would be great to let some other really good, hopefully some good, not necessarily very good, but, but to let a younger person come in and teach them and I also did have this, you know, calling I think to China and to other work and so I think that ultimately led to the decision but I think part of it was you know, also, I know those of you who are teachers understand this, you know, teaching full time, teaching full time in a university and you know, it was, I was also feeling that I had to admit, I was getting really tired, quite frankly, and I don't know if I was as sharp and then all these other things were opening up in my life and, and so I decided, you know, and then of course when the provincial asked me to go off to China. I think that was in a way kind of a confirmation for me that it was time to leave but you know, I think I would just say Jim quite frankly, I think one of the wonderful many wonderful things of Jesuit life, and is that you have this opportunity and invitation often to do many different things in your life. And I feel that I've had that fortunately and I've been very fortunate in my life have had that experience where the Jesuits have asked me to do many different things and then the Jesuits have enabled me to follow many of my own personal and academic interests they basically just encourage me, you know, along the way and, and so I, you know, my time at Fairfield I just feel tremendous gratitude for, for my time at Fairfield and, and yeah I'm really grateful and very happy I, I felt like I feel like I kind of left before, you know, I could have stayed there forever and then maybe they would have had to kick me out, you know, if I can, you know, if I, you know, started getting such in the classroom that you know I just wasn't as sharp anymore, but that wouldn't be good so I felt, you know, I kind of left after a good run there I think I had a pretty good run and left full of gratitude and, you know, it's just such a wonderful place, you know, quite frankly, a couple of my friends who are still professors. I don't personally know how I would do with this online learning stuff. Oh, it's so hard, you know, and so I don't know whether the good Lord was drawing me out before the COVID pandemic, knowing that I would be a disaster, trying to teach on zoom, I don't know. But anyway, I'm very grateful for Fairfield. I just bring this to an end and turn it back to Jessica, but it was one comment. There's not a doubt in my mind would have mastered online learning and mastered it well like you've done everything else. Oh, really? Oh, thank you Jim. Oh, thank you. Well, if I could be so direct and say, you know, seeing yourself and Father Allen and Mary Francis and Larry and Donna, you know, I miss so many of my Fairfield friends. Very Janet and Jessica, you know, I as I say I really am very fond of all of you and found and George Diffley, who I was with for many years at Fairfield, Joan Weiss, so many good good people at Fairfield. And so no, I'm, I'm grateful. So thank you, Jim.  I've been doing a hell of a lot of zoom meetings, you know, working in this role down at the past as the administrator of the parish. So, you know, maybe I've learned a little something at that but, but I'm really so grateful that to see you all here tonight and thank you for listening and thank you for being on with us tonight. So again, thank you. And on the other hand, if we have just a few minutes left but we've gotten a couple of questions. This first one is not about you it's more specifically about China so if it's something you would rather me connect you with the alumnus to discuss offline just let me know that but the question is, today is, is it more important for an individual to identify as a Han Chinese than to identify as a communist Chinese. Very good question. Very good question. I would, I'm not sure of the answer quite frankly I certainly the by far the majority of Chinese people are of the Han Han ethnicity. But quite frankly, I don't know. I could say that, you know, there are quite a few people I know in China, and have worked with who are members of the party, and, but interestingly that is kind of a, it's not really talked a lot about in public, I would say, I would say that, now obviously if you're, you're working directly in a government position, you know, you know many people are aware of, you know, your, your affiliation. But I think that the primary, I think that the primary identification would be being Chinese. And I think interestingly, even that, you know, that happens for people from Chinese people in other countries as well. So I think of the Chinese people I meet like in Philadelphia, for example. The one thing I would say also is that in a question like that, which is a very good question by the way I thank the person asking it. When someone asked me like a broader more general question like what is it like in China.  That's eastern coast part of China where many of the biggest cities are, for example, Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, and Shenzhen, which is the large, very large city where they make all their iPhones and iPads just north of Hong Kong. I would say that I think the Chinese people are very proud people. And, but the interesting part of it is that there are many dialects in the language. So, so people, you know, identify, I think, more as Chinese, but what I would say, by the way, is China is a very diverse, extremely diverse society, regionally, linguistically, culturally. But I would say that I would, I, I don't know the exact number of people who I think this is public knowledge, I'm sure, if you did a Google search, you could find a number, you know, of what the, what the identification with it in terms of membership in the party. I do think that people who reach a high level of kind of material and personal success in China usually are members. And I think that usually helps, you know, in their kind of, shall you say, shall I say climbing the social ladder. I think my impression, I'm not an expert on this, but my impression would be the people primarily identify as being Chinese people. Great. And then the last question, someone, it's actually your friends Larry and Donna wanted to know what your insights are into the recent rise in anti-Asian hate in society. Yes. Thank you, Larry and Donna. First of all, it's very distressing, obviously, you know, on a personal level. The first thing I would say is misunderstanding. Dare I even use the word a terrible ignorance on the part of people who would obviously behave this way. And obviously, the violence part of it, the violence dimension is absolutely horrible and obviously illegal and a terrible example of hatred, really. But I would say, you know, that in many ways, and this may sound a little maybe surprising or shocking to people here tonight or when I might say this to other groups. I think in many ways, the Chinese people and the American people are more similar than they are different in terms of coming from a highly successful, highly sophisticated culture, an economic powerhouse. Both countries are obviously economically and politically very important to the world, and to the success of the world really. I do think that there's been there's a lot of rhetoric. The last five or 10 years that have taken place going back between both societies on both sides really. And, you know, it's funny when I was over in China and I would sometimes hear some of the rhetoric in the Western media about China. And I would say that a large percentage of it is factually wrong, or a lot of it quite frankly is propaganda on both sides, by the way, I would certainly say there's propaganda on both sides. There's clearly a competition now between both countries on that is very serious and a very, a very serious competition, business wise obviously economically politically culturally. I think the virus, some of the rhetoric and actually quite frankly in my opinion, and I'm not an expert or a scientist on this but I, but I, I think some of the things that were said about the origins of the virus. I don't know yet if, if those things that have been said rhetorically have been really shown scientifically to be true and I probably shouldn't go into a lot of great detail I think we all know what I'm talking about here but. I think some, some of that is connected to quite a bit of miss in my opinion personally misunderstanding about the origins and sources of the virus. And I don't think we know the facts on some of that yet. And I think. I think it's, I think part of it, let me just kind of maybe say one more thing. One of the reasons I think the Jesuits started the Beijing Center, many years ago is to try to help and encourage cross, cross cultural understanding between the People's Republic of China and the United States of America. Because I think most I'm not an expert in this either but most analysts around the world say that that relationship is perhaps one of the most important relationships between any two countries in the world today for all kinds of obvious reasons. And I think that one of the things one of the reasons I went to the Beijing Center is I think both countries need to understand each other better. Because I think there's a tremendous, a tremendous misunderstanding on both sides. And I think that one of the reasons is that quite frankly I think the Chinese people are better at learning the English language than Americans are in learning the Chinese language. And for all kinds of obvious historical reasons but I really think America has a major task before it quite frankly right now is to try to learn more about China. And, and that goes that's also true for the Chinese people, but I, but I think that some of the anti Asian violence and hatred quite frankly let's call it what it is comes out of a misunderstanding. And I really hope and pray, quite frankly that, you know, we can learn more about China, and that China can learn more about us. And the Chinese people are wonderful people. They are wonderful people. And, and I think both countries you know certainly both governments of both countries say that, you know they use the expression of win win, at least in business and economic relations I think, you know, we have to do all we can to avoid direct conflict between both countries, because that would be an absolute absolute disaster for the world. I think what we need is more understanding a willingness for greater dialogue. I'm sorry this probably sounds like a pep talk but I think really think that's partly behind some of what's been happening recently and it's it's heartbreaking quite frankly. I think that's probably a longer answer, Donna and Larry than you maybe hope for but that's the best shot I can give at least at the moment. Oh, Bukuchi, well hung out sing Larry your Chinese is very good. Well, thank you so much father Hanna fee thank you father bowler thank all of you for being with us tonight. The next event in the series will be with none other than father Charles Allen on June 15. Keep an eye out I will send the link to that when I send the email with the video link of the recording out to all of you. So we hope to see you for that on June 15 and thank you all again and have a great night. Thank you. Thank you all.