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Get ready to learn some stuff. Enjoy this episode. I love doing this, um, right now. Like, what do we, Doug, do you know what I'll top your head? How many partners we have? We have like 20, 20, 20 something. 15 to 20. Yeah, somewhere. Right. And can't count your partners. No, bad sign. Yeah. How many partners you've been with? Guys, guys, uh, rule of three guys. You divide by three women. You multiply by three. That's the, that's the tree. Now is that all like same time or is it individually? No, no, no, no, no. It's like, no, it's like, whenever, when a guy tells you how many, how many girls that he slept with, you divide by three. Yeah. Yeah. And when a girl tells you, you multiply by three. I think it's, I think there's, it's pretty standard. It's, I'm pretty much science. It is. They did a study on this. Yeah. So, no, so anyways, uh, what, what I really like is, um, you know, sometimes there's a, I, I shared the mishap with the magic spoon cereal, right? And what happened? And I have Katrina, um, email customer service and go through it. And, and, you know, she's still got Garcia as the last name. And so unless you're like a super fan of the show, like you don't connect the dots of like her email is attached to me or anything like that, right? So, um, so we had our first like thing with public goods.  I didn't see that it was, it wasn't, it wasn't turned on. It was on off still and I squeezed it. So you just did the guy thing. Oh, it's not working. Apply more force. And broke it right. And I tell Katrina, Oh, you know what? This is, let's see how they handle this. So I told Katrina, I said, Hey, could you send a message, uh, to email, uh, public goods and let them know that, uh, our spray bottle, you know, the first spray I did with it, it broke right away. And, uh, sure as shit, they responded right away and received yesterday, the new, such good customer service. Yeah. And they also kicked in like, uh, they must have gone through our previous orders and see the stuff that we ordered and set us up with some, uh, free detergent that came in there. I like the soap.  You know what I'm talking about? The, the one used for, oh, it smells really, it's really good. Really good. Really good stuff. I do that whenever I'm, this is my, I do this all the time. It irritates me and everyone else when I'm putting something together.  So there's always something to put together. Oh, I got the new high chair. Oh, I got this new thing, whatever is that when a part doesn't fit or something's not right, my instinct is just to apply more force. Oh, I know why it stopped fitting. And then it's a crack. Oh, I broke it. Damn it. I do that all the time. So annoying.   And then you're trying so hard, you know, to make like the wrong type of screwdriver kind of fit, you know, within that I need a smaller one, but I don't have it on hand, but I still have to get this project done. And then you just strengthen. And then it breaks. Then you blow it. Dude, this morning, so you know, it's funny is that, um, and I think this is more science. I think, so you know how they talk about how there's that, I don't know if it's a myth. Some studies say this happens. Other studies say it's not true, but you know how they say that women, when they hang out with each other, their menstrual cycles start to match. That's been debunked. Well, it has, but there's studies that say that it might be true as well. Who knows? Naturally aligns. There's this evolutionary theory behind it that their menstrual cycles align there for that way. They're not necessarily taking each other's men's because they're fertile at the same time. And it's just this, this thing for the tribe or whatever I've heard that argument before. Anyway, something similar happens to men, right? Now we obviously don't have a menstrual cycle. Although we menstrual, although some of us, uh, our moods change like that happens. You know what I'm talking about, Justin, but, uh, yeah, very moody. Yeah. But we don't, we, it doesn't happen to guys, right? But here's what happens to guys. And I've noticed this with you guys, because we work with each other all the time. We all poop at the same time now. Yeah. It's very interesting. I'm almost, I'm almost never. It's like clockwork. Almost never have I gone poop and you guys just install or we're walking at the same time. I'm almost never pooping alone now, which is kind of cool. Yeah. Interesting. I don't know. Sucks for the third guy though. It does. Yeah, it sucks when you're not, this happened today. You gotta wait around and listen to noises and stuff. So this, this happened today too. So I'm in the toilet, right? And, uh, and now there's another guy and here's the thing. We're usually the ones using the bathroom. It's like this community bathroom. So our studio, we share a bathroom with like other tenants and we're the, we were the most here all the time. Other, the other tenants are, I think I can count on one hand how many times actually I've seen somebody else in our bathroom. Yeah. Not very, very often, right? But anyway, I'm in there and, um, and I know everybody's shoes here at Mind Pump.  So it's guy, so someone else comes in, I can already see it's none of our shoes. So it's some random person. So he's on the toilet. I'm on the toilet. He's with floral pattern. Adam, Adam walks in, he's, oh, we're doing team pooping again. He starts talking. I'm like, well, I said some random persons in here, Adam. It's not, it's not Justin. No. You make the poor guy feel weird. Yeah.  I don't want to be part of this. Get me out of here. Kind of weird thing they're doing over here. I have a hilarious, like little fun fact, actually. It doesn't have to deal with like women's menstrual cycles, but, so the term hard on, right, they're used for guys, right? So there's an actual term for, you know, the sort of the lady boner that Australians use, you know what it is? What? A wide on. Whoa. I was like, whoa. That's hilarious. Wait a minute. I'm getting all kinds of weird images. So that's referring to wide on. What do you mean? Was it referring to? You need a visual there, buddy? Well, I mean, that's the first thing I got was a visual. I've never heard that before. I thought that was hilarious. You know what? So when women, when women get aroused, they get blood flow. So their, their vagina is, is, is made with spongy. I'm glad we have him. I know, explain the stuff. Yeah. You know, like, I just really don't know how this works. It's going to the science. Tell me about the vagina please. It's got spongy. We need like a chart. Similar to the penis, right? It's this tissue that engorges. So a woman's... This is all book knowledge, by the way, too, because he's only seen two. I've only seen Adam and Justin. Great book smart.  Break it down, doc. Take it down here. I learned by action. Thanks for letting me look at your vagina, Adam. No problem. No, it's, it, the, the, the part of the female anatomy that's modulated to the males, right? Is the clitoris. The clitoris becomes erect.   Like a guy, like a guy does. I want to know where you heard that. I heard it on some podcasts. I don't remember where, but it was just like, I just stopped everything I was doing. Well, speaking of like funny euphemisms or whatever. So, you know, you guys know how I said once on a podcast and I've had so many people share this where I said that people who wear a mask in their car when they're driving alone, probably also wear a condom. Great, great line.  You have a few in your sleep. So I did that as a post, right? And so people were sharing or whatever. And then I had all these people from the UK tell me that there's a name for that. You guys know what it's called? Jerking off of the condom. It's a thing, apparently. You know what they call it? A posh wink. It's called a posh. What does that even mean? I don't know. Well, I know posh means kind of like, you know, like wealthy or whatever. So it's just like a, like a wealthy thing to do. Like, I don't want to clean this up. Wow. You could just throw away condoms all day. That's what that is. Yeah. So I'm just going to do this. It's like the rich man's sock version. Is that what it is? It's like, you do that in your sock. You wear that again. I do that in a condom. That just sounds super depressing to me. You put a condom on and not getting action.  That's a lot of work. That's another step. What are you doing, bro? You're not protecting anybody.  You're misusing it. Yeah. But anyway, it's called a posh. Okay. Posh wink. It's always good to know. It's always good to get this, uh, this science stuff going on. Never, never heard about that. Hey, speaking of more science, I've been experimenting with a new, uh, new tropic. I've talked about this before, but I started new one. Oh, yeah. I started experimenting with, uh, nicotine lozenges. Have I told you guys this before? Oh yeah. Do we bring it up? Yeah. A long time ago. You told that I buy sure. So I have them. Yeah. So I've been doing so. So okay. I'm not, I'm not advocating for this. So, you know, here's the deal. By the way, when people hear nicotine, they think of cigarettes and all the health, uh, detriments. The health detriments from cigarettes don't come from the nicotine.  Toxic chemicals. Yeah. Nicotine itself is actually not bad for you. It is addicting like caffeine is. So it is a substance that your body will build a tolerance to, and then you'll feel like you need it. So it is, it does have addictive properties, but it's not bad for you. And in fact, some studies, it actually improves cognitive function. Especially in, in, in, believe it or not, in people with cognitive decline. It's actually been researched, uh, to help people with, uh, like dementia and stuff like that. But anyway, I started experimenting with it, and it definitely is, uh, a bit of a new tropic. It's like almost like a, it's, it's got this weird like wakefulness and relaxing effect at the same time. I love it. I, we, I went on a kick for a little bit here on the show where we, I would, uh, have our cold brew and then one of those before we record. And it, I did, it felt sharp. But it, you quickly adapt. You need more. Yeah. You're still really ranting. Yeah. And then I went, I was doing two of them. And then I was like, uh, okay, I see where this is going.  If you have that personality where you'll just, I do. Yeah. And so if you don't recommend it to most people because of that exact reason, but I mean, I've never brought it up for those reasons, but, uh, you get the balls to say that on the show and go ahead and massive yourself. I actually, in fact, that's such a 90s way of joking. A teasing guys, by the way.  Is that right? Yeah. We're the only ones. No, but yesterday I overdid it, right? So I was doing the nicotine and I was like, that lozenges and I was like, Oh, this is kind of cool. And then I was watching, I was doing some kind of research because we have some interviews coming up and I wanted to be prepared. So I wanted us to kind of stay alert and awake and, you know, I'm so much of these things. So I'm popping these nicotine lozenges. Yeah. Yeah. I went too far dude. Have you tried this? Yeah. Where you take too many. It'll make me nauseous. Oh, bro. All of a sudden I was like, Yeah. It's just like, you know what it reminds me of? It was not good. Room spinning. Oh, it was not good. You know what it reminds me of? Have you ever accidentally swallowed some chew? It's like that feeling. If you have too much of that stuff. I've never, dude, and that was the thing. A lot of my friends, because baseball, apparently, trying to be like the pro baseball players and put chew in and be cool guy. And I kept like, yeah, I'm going to try this.  Yes. It just did. And I couldn't and like, oh, you'll just get used to it. I'm like, okay, this is 10th time. I'm over it. It's not working. No, I mean, I did. So when I turned 18, you know, when you turn 18, certain things become like legal, but not like drinking, right? So when I don't know about you guys, when I turned 18, I was like, what can I do now that I couldn't do before? So I know I could buy chewing tobacco. So I was driving to work. This is when I was a trainer. So I was driving to work and I bought some chew at the gas station. And I didn't know that this would happen. I thought that I could, I would notice and stop, right? Like, oh, I could just stop, right? So I took some of the chaw or whatever, stuffed it in my lip, and I started driving and I'm driving and all of a sudden, oh, and, oh, bro, I opened the window and like, there's blue chunks. The only time in my whole life I've ever thrown up while driving outside the window. It was, it wasn't good. Yeah. So it prevented me from ever doing that again. Yeah. It was a good deterrent at least, I guess. Yeah.  Speaking of our interviews that we had coming up, we have a real soon here. Doug, what day are we releasing the sugar, fat, salt interview that we did with Michael Moss? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Next Wednesday. That's going to be a good one. Did you guys see it? It's great information. Yeah, that was, that's going to be a really cool interview. I enjoyed that conversation. We didn't get a chance to talk about this, but I wanted to bring it up with you guys. Have you guys seen what can't, so there's some stores that are banning, or either stores or states, I can't remember which one, maybe Doug can fact check me, that are banning the candy and stuff at the front. And to where kids, because that's like obviously a huge strategy, right? Oh, right. You know, is when you're waiting in line, everybody knows that you don't put a second item. Yeah, the Snickers bar three inches from the ground is not to appeal to adults. It's you're holding your kid's hand, you're in line.  Yeah, it is, right? So I obviously, you know, some of these places are aware of this, and they think that they're going to eliminate that. Have you guys seen that? Did you guys know this? No, I don't know specifically, but I did, I have heard that they've talked about, you know, doing this kind of stuff. You know, here's the thing, I don't have a problem. You know, you guys know me, I'm pretty like allow the market to kind of work its way, but when it comes to kids, that's where I have a little bit of an issue, because I don't think it's the same thing as an adult making a decision for themselves. And I know parents are ultimately in charge of the kids, but I think marketing is so effective and aggressive that I don't think it's fair to just hammer children with this type of messaging. So Berkeley was the first city to do it, back in September of last year. That town of... So, well, here's your free market, right? So what is the... They decriminalized, you know, the soul of Simon, right? Yeah. Stuff like that, but yeah, I agree. Now, did you see the response though? Now, what is Candy coming up with to respond to that? And they've created this robot candy thing that follows you in the store. I'm serious. We'll get around this. Yeah, look at that robot candy machine that follows you. It shoots kids with candy. I mean, the libertarian, and you have to love the response, the free market response. All right, take a nice little pivot right there. Yeah, take a set of the robot now. We'll just follow you around the aisle all the way. Wow. Isn't that funny? That's hilarious. You cannot leave without the candy. You know what though? Okay, so I'm not going to lie. Imagine you're walking with your kid, right? Your kid's like five and you're walking in the store and the robot's like following him. Do you want some candy? We should have... Hey, do you want to play a game? Yeah. Like aren't you going to be like, I'm going to kick this robot in the head right now? Right.  You're like, look, we got rid of the front. Now this is worse, right? So I'm wondering what... Yeah, check this out. Look at it. Wow, look at that. It actually follows you around.  I'm not going to lie. Yeah, that's aggressive. Yeah, I'm not going to lie.  Okay, here's the deal. Okay, when I'm hungry and I go grocery shopping, this is me, trainer, right? Self-aware fitness health guy.  Yeah, for your kid or you. Me. Oh, okay. Even me. Now I can't imagine if I'm in the grocery store and there's a robot following me around with potato chips. You sure you don't want one? Yeah. They're free. You can have one. This is really good. Gluten-free or whatever. Organic. I'll have a couple. There is one good rule that everybody should follow when grocery shopping, that I think that I still make the mistake. I'm always reminded when I make this mistake and that is just do not go to the grocery store on an empty stomach. No. When you go on an empty stomach. Rubbing one out before a date. It's exactly the same thing. You want to be in a clear state of mind. That's called post-nut clarity. Yeah. So in this case, you want to be fed before you go do that. It's amazing the choices I make, how different they are. If I go there, I have any four or five hours. I'm really hungry and I'm going to go grocery shopping. The stuff that lands in my cart versus just had lunch, head over to the grocery store. I know what I need to get or what it's on the list. It's like never text your ex-girlfriends when you're drunk either. Like same thing. Or on Facebook. Yeah. Please. Have you guys ever seen?  Family or friends when they'll do a Facebook post and you're like, oh, they're drunk right now. That's not good. Somebody's lit. That just actually just happened to, I won't sell this person out. They're a mutual friend of Katrina and I, and he was text-drunking a drunken, text-drunking. Drunk texting. Thank you. Yeah. It's not what's drunk right now. Pretty sure that dyslexia thing is true. Oh, no. Pretty sure it's true. Disversive. We understand. You knew what I meant. Yeah, he said, I got you. He was messaging. And then they go way back too. And we're also friends. And he was texting her back and forth. And then there's also a thread in our phone that has me, him, and her. And I don't think he realized. Oh, no, what happened? Yeah, yeah, no. So, I mean, he was aggressively flirting with me. No, he wasn't. Yeah, yeah. And it's a friend of yours? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm okay with it.  That stuff doesn't bother me. I really don't get bothered. I mean, I know my girl. Yeah, but you're confident in everything. Yeah, but it's still, there's a little bit. You know what's actually funny? I actually feel more sorry for him because I didn't respond. And you know he knows. That's pretty sad.  I just sent a message like that. Wow. That was pretty bad, too. But now here's a part that would bother me because I'm pretty confident, too.  Okay, I get that. But if it's a person that pretends to be my friend, I don't agree. That's where I feel. I don't agree with that. You get hella upset when I send Jessica pictures at like 11 o'clock at night. Yeah. So. Well, they aren't naked pictures of you. I know, but still. Yeah. I mean, we're all family. I mean, we both laugh at him when you say no. Across the line. I haven't said anything yet. But I know he looks like he's 12 in this picture. That just happened. This literally just happened like two nights ago. Oh my god. See, I would be upset because it would feel like, like, bro, you're my friend. You're like, what are you doing? Well, first of all, he was her friend first. So they go back almost, I want to say. Oh my god. I know who this is. Close to 20 years. They're like 15 to 20 years. I know who this is. And so we've known each other for like 11.  You know what I'm saying? There's very few guys that I know in my girl's relationships that she has that would not kill to be married to her. And so, you know, I'm aware of that. You deal with that. And I know how platonic the relationship is on her end. And so, you know, it doesn't really, whatever. Dude, it's so funny. Well, this didn't happen recently, but a while back.  Right? Yeah.  And then you just see their demeanor just like get crushed.  How are you? Oh, I heard things about you. Yeah. Like your friends, always in the friend zone. Yeah. Yeah. Justin's a guy to rub it. I love rubbing it in. I'm like, you know what? We should all hang out. And I give him my number. That's just what I do. You know, you should have done that. Adam, you should have replied. I haven't said anything yet.  You should have replied. That would have been the ultimate thing, bro. Oh, yeah. Like, hey, bro, I'm down.  Hey, man, room for more. Yeah. Hey, she's not down, but you know. I am. I'm pretty down. I'm definitely down. Let's have a good time. Wow, that's real awkward. Wow, dude, that's weird. That's kind of simple. I mean, I feel like it not responding has to just create so much more angst for him than anything.  Yeah, dude. Like, before, I thought I was text-like framed in your house. Before I was sending those messages to his wife thinking that she's not sharing with him and thinking that we have this thing, right?  Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Wow, that's terrible. Well, I know things about you now. Well, I have some bad news for you, Adam. I know you just told that. Oh, wow, I just laid on. Kick Kyle on the floor, guy right now. No, no, I mean, I read this and I was like, I want to wait for the podcast is interesting, but I almost didn't wait because I was concerned. But anyway, this is because we brought up his hip thrust. I know. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm legit worried about this because I love you, right? So I read this study that connected. You ready for this? Small calves with a shorter life expectancy. This is an actual study that shows this that people with small calves have a shorter life expectancy. I'm so glad you're concerned. Yes, there's two things. I want to know how you're more concerned about me than yourself right now. That's how I'm out of this conversation. I think my life expectancy just is going to live forever. I'll live forever. I think mine might be affected a little bit, but I was like, damn, Adam, screwed. So two things. One, I want to make sure we stay healthy because we want to offset that a little bit. Make sure you don't. And two, we got to get that life insurance, Doug. Set up quick before it kicks in. No, but can you believe there was a study that showed that small calves? That's so hilarious. All right. I wouldn't have to do anything. Did you read the whole thing or did you just read the... I read an article about it and I laughed about it because studies like this, all joking aside, right? All joking aside, Adam's a healthy guy.  Well, how about the calf compliment? That would have been a good place to insert that right there. I actually posted my socks that I was wearing two days ago. I don't know if you thought of my Snoopy ones. Did you see those? No, I didn't see them. Yeah, so I posted on my story and I actually got several DMs. Man, you get teased all the time about your calves. You have nice calves. I was like, thank you, man. Actually, I actually have decent calves. They just look smaller because everything else is massive around it. That reminds me of this... I can't say it randomly. It could also be like the guy that's always like, man, I'm so fat. People go up to me, hey, you're not that fat, bro. Just make me feel fat. Like, not that fat. They're not that bad. That's actually a good strategy. I think I got some problems. You downplay it.  I had a buddy the same way.  Lower the expectation.  You're huge. That's not bad. I thought you said and then it was okay. 100%. Yeah, it's a good strategy. I agree with you.  So that's pretty good. No, I get sent random studies all the time. Usually they're about cheese. You know what I'm saying? Thanks. You always get sent cheese. Oh, dude. There's one like the popular one is that it has the same responses like heroin, you know, for your brain. And I'm just like, dude, okay. And then there's the other one that I just got recently where they're just trying to justify like eating dairy in general. You know, and it's just like, it's just hilarious to me that because of people and their intolerances and all that, I guess the whole millennial culture itself has like eliminated all dairy.  I read that somewhere too. It's been taking a dive. Stupid. Yeah. Stupid. Okay. If you have a dairy movement. Exactly. If you have a dairy intolerance, don't have dairy. That's it. If you don't have a dairy intolerance. There's lots of nutrients and benefits to it. Are you kidding me? High quality dairy is one of the most nutrient dense foods. It's very healthy. It's very good for you. Now there are studies that'll show that, oh, we need to drink milk. It actually can cause. Here's where those studies come from.  That people were drinking non-fat milk, which essentially is like a protein sugar drink. Lactose. And it would cause issues with water. Well it would cause issues with people because a lot of the nutrients in milk don't get absorbed because the fat isn't there to enhance absorption. Drink dairy and eat dairy in its natural forms if you don't have an intolerance. It's one of the most healthy food you can possibly eat. I really feel like that was just in trying to assist you to the Organifi commercial and you missed it completely. Was that what that was right there? That was, wasn't it? I'm too ninja. Get better, bros. I was going there and now you called me out. That's such a win. Protein sources. A little too obvious. Before we get to Organifi, and we will get to Organifi. Plant-based protein. Yeah, no. Okay, let's talk about Organifi first. Then I want to go back to the heroin comment. Okay, cool. Yeah, definitely if you have plant-based sources of protein, like protein powders, you want to have a blend of different plant-based proteins so you get a more complete amino acid profile. Plant-based sources of protein are not as efficacious as animal on a gram-per-gram basis. So like Organifi's protein powder has got multiple sources so you get a better amino acid profile. And it's just good. I can't have dairy so that's what I take when I take protein. Yeah, with your 12 eggs. Did you get heat for that? You always do. I think that's why you post it all the time. I love it, dude. 12 egg yolks in Organifi protein. People trip out on that. Oh my God, you're going to die, bro. That's an expensive shake though right there. Of course it is. 12 eggs and Organifi. Well, how much is a dozen eggs? Organifi's already on the upper end of what? A dozen eggs. For the organic free range. Yeah, I get pasture rate. What are they, five, six bucks? So what? Yeah, I don't know. You order a $25, $30 breakfast every morning. One Starbucks drink. Yeah, I know. This is the biggest thing.   And fMRI showed that the brain looks similar on heroin and cheese.  Okay, it's not the same thing.  It doesn't, yeah, it doesn't work that way. What are you showing us up there?  I'm just curious about the blend of Organifi. It's right there, protein blend. Yeah, pea protein, flax seed, organic quinoa pumpkin seed. Yeah, so pea protein by itself is one of the better sources of plant-based proteins. By itself, it's got one of the best amino acid profiles. But then they blend in those other ones and they also have a digestive enzyme blend in there as well to help with assimilation. Which that probably really helps because you're the type of guy that would take that after eating anything anyways, right? If I was going to have a high protein meal, yeah, I probably would do something like that. Do you do that still? I know that you were doing that for a while too. I remember you guys both. No, he was taking something for gut health, but it wasn't that. Yeah, yeah. Are you still doing it? Yes, I am. Yeah, I'm still doing it. Is it help? It's been helping a bit. I mean, in terms of the acid reflux stuff, I've been getting better at it, but really I have to go back to the whole elimination diet for me to just reduce. And also, it's a timing thing.  I'm like that, what do they call that, the silver plate special or whatever when you come in early. The early bird, I have to eat around like five, six o'clock now. Really? It just does way better for me. That's what I eat too though. Yeah, okay. I actually prefer doing that. I feel better. Straight old man style. Well, I mean, I just feel a lot better when I go to bed after not eating for four or five hours. I just sleep much better that way. So yeah, that's just the way I do it. Well, another, okay. So I can't explain this one though. Like somebody sent me this hilarious study that was like correlating listening to heavy metal with getting more obese. What? So the more metal causes obesity. Yeah.   Right? I mean, is that something? And then they just sit around getting depressed. They literally plucked like a few like different types of bands that were like, there's quite a few metal band members that are pretty, you know, rotund. But it's just like, it's hilarious to me. It was like, I don't know. Some clip. What about Danzig?  What about Danzig? What about our friend, Brendan Shapotti? Yeah. You know, like as a late dying, like Tim Lambises was like totally yoked. It's again, it's a hilarious like click baity thing. Oh, are they saying that the band members or the people listening? They're turning it into an entire genre. Like in general, like most people listen to heavy metal like tend to be obese. It's a correlation. It's a correlation. There's no like science behind it. Have you guys ever seen like those posts on funny correlations? Like, you know, like when the price of pork reins goes up, you know, the stock market does well. Or when it rains, like things that are not connected but you can correlate. Totally. Yeah. So it's, there's no connection, you know, to something like that. No, no, I think it enhances my workouts. Oh my God. Come on, bro. Yeah. And Justin's not obese. I see you got your hail lobster in. Yeah. I know. Shout out to Michaela Lobster. Yeah. So this was for Jordan Peterson because, you know, I tell you what. Remind the audience of the story because I think it's so cool what they're doing. They're trying to say that. So, so a comic book writer, you know, the Red Skull is a villain. It's the arch nemesis of Captain America. In the original comic books, he was like a Nazi, right? And so he wrote a comic that showed that the Red Skull essentially had a bunch of rules and many of them mirrored the rules from 12 rules to life. So essentially they made the Red Skull, they made Jordan Peterson to the Red Skull, this Nazi who. But explain what Michaela is doing with him. And so this is, I love what they're doing. So they took the Hydra logo, which is the logo of the, you know, the evil, whatever. Yeah, it's like an octopus or something. Yeah. And she made it into the lobster because, you know, in 12 rules, he talks about the lobster's central nervous system. Yeah. And how the way we. The hierarchy. Yeah. So they made it into something that they could sell as a shirt that they would donate the proceeds or whatever. So this is like a pro, you know. That's what I like. I love that what they are choosing to do because he's such a prominent figure in the space that every time the media attacks him, that they are going to put a play on a spin on it. And then usually directing the hate in a positive way. I'm going to tell you something. And then give the money directly away. About 100%, he's the most by far. It's actually, to be honest with you, it's quite alarming for me when I see this. Because in politics, you see mischaracterization, mischaracterization, mischaracterizations all the time.  But what they tend to do is they'll take a piece of something that you say or do, and they'll spin it a little bit. They almost never do a complete opposite, like make up lie, right? They don't do that. But with Jordan Peterson, it's very strange and a bit scary. They literally make things up. It's very interesting. I mean, I've read his books. I've seen all of his talks. I agree with a lot of stuff he says, maybe not everything. But the things that they say, like he's like, he preaches against the things that led to Nazism and communism.  You know, like that's so weird. Well, obviously it just screams that they view him as a massive threat. And that's really all it is. And otherwise, you couldn't try and uncover things that aren't even there and make things up to paint him as his villain that he's really not. I mean, could you imagine if you, if somebody came out and they did a whole article, New York Times, an article, Justin Andrews hates lifting weights and loves running long distance. You'd be like, what? Wrong. But you know what?  That's how he runs. I run like this, like my arm's in time. Lots of shoulders, nothing else. Hey, you ever see people run like that that they're because they can't run very fast because they're exhausted? So they're essentially walking, but then they do this with their arms. They're just flailing like limbs, but they're not really going very fast. Do you see this guy that would run in my neighborhood like that? And I swore to God I could walk slowly just as fast as him, but he was doing the motions like he's running. And I'm like, you're better off walking. My two favorite things to watch people do is run because of that, because you see all types of variations of how people put it together, you know, get their body in motion.  Most people don't know how to punch. Oh, it's great. I love watching it. Speaking of arms, you just reminded me of something I've been meaning to tell you guys.  As time goes on here and you're starting to start to see like flashes of his mom or myself and him. And so this new thing, right? So you guys know how he loves to sit and watch country music with me. And that's like his thing, that's our thing, right? So he'll, he'll sit there for like an hour with me and or fall asleep on my chest and do that. So lately he's been doing this thing where he'll be, he'll sit next to me and he's totally into what we're doing. And then all of a sudden he'll go like this with his arms. And it just happened just the other day for the first time for me. And I'm like, what is he doing?  I'm like, what? He threw his arms out there to tickle him. Bro, so he does this, right? It feels good. And he wants, yeah, he wants me to just drag my fingers towards it.  That's so cute. And Katrina is like, I was like, how do you know that's what he wants to do? She goes, you know where he gets that? He goes, my mom used to do that to me when I was little. And I love that. And she goes, it's something that I've always loved.   And I'm like, okay, I do like that. But that is so funny that he does that. And she's like, yeah, no, it's totally what it is. That is so cute. Oh, it is. That's adorable. It is the cutest thing ever. And if you don't figure it out, he'll grab your hand. Like so. I do it like this. And he kept grabbing my hand. And I'm like, what is he trying to do? And that's when she spoke up and said what he was trying. And then I started doing it. And then, of course, he just went back and relaxed. And through his head. Oh, that's adorable. I know. Yeah, so my baby son. So when I was a baby, I used to move. I'd get excited and I'd do this with my hands and I'd do the same thing with my feet. And I used to like to, I'm very touchy feel. You guys know that. So if I was sitting next to my mom, I'd rub her hand or I'd play with her hair. I was always doing something with my hands. My son is exactly the same way. If he's breastfeeding, he's playing with Jessica's hair or he's rubbing her back or he has to touch like the blanket. There'll be a blanket and he'll kind of just sit there and rub it. So he's like so touchy feel, which I love because now I get to, you know, do that. Well, that's interesting. Yeah. Because my my kids, it's funny because like for me, I was always like very much like, um, wrestle or whatever. And then like my dad would like tickle me. And I like, I hated it. But I'm like so ticklish, you know, because I because I would lose my strength immediately. And it would like dismantle me. Adam, we should tickle. You know, like I shouldn't have said that. Just hold it down. I really shouldn't have said that.  Yeah, because it's like tickle torture. But like it's funny to watch. Like my kids are the same way. Like I'll start wrestling with them wherever I tickle them. And they're like, they pretend they don't like it. You know, they're just like, I don't want to stop. I knew a guy in high school that is when we were like freshmen in that and you knew like, bro, it's because you like guys, you know, but he's young. He doesn't want to really admit it, whatever we're talking about. That's what he would do. Like he, he'd want to get into a tickle fight. You know, you're like 15 years old, bro. Like why are you trying to tick? So I was like, okay. Hey, let's tickle. Hey, it's getting hot in here. We should take our shirts off. What do you think? Yeah. No, we're not going to tickle wrestle. Okay, dude. I know exactly what you're trying to do. I got a singlet in the back. Let's make it official. The winner is the one that holds the other guy down. And tickles him the most. I don't want to win that bad, dude. Something else is going on right now. Oh, by the way, we're going to film it. Anyway, I just read the study on cannabis use. In fact, I'm going to pull it up because I want to bring it up because it's a great way to kind of explain the way that you should read studies or the way that, you know, sometimes you, when you look at the results of a study, you have to be a little bit more careful or whatever. Right. So it was a 20 year long study done on users of cannabis. And what they found is that regular users of cannabis. And so what they're trying to do is they're trying to say, this is what happens when you use a lot of marijuana. Regular cannabis users were more likely to engage in high risk alcohol consumption, smoke tobacco, use other illegal drugs, and not be a relationship at the age of 35. That's such a terrible study. Well, hold on. They're also at higher risk of depression and less likely to have a paid job. Overall, regular use of cannabis more than weekly and especially daily use was found to have harmful consequences.  Regardless of the age. Now do that same study on anybody addicted to anything. Yeah. Addicted to food. Yeah. Addicted to anything. And you'll show that. I mean, that's what it is. So that's the problem. The problem is it's like the chicken and the egg, right? The chicken and the egg. What came first, right? I think people who self-medicate are more likely to do all of those things as well. So you can't, it's hard to say. Now I'm not saying that long term, regular especially frequent cannabis use doesn't have side effects. I'm sure it does. But you can't take a study like this and say, because you use cannabis, you're more likely to do these things. Because maybe just being a depressed person or being an anxious person or having issues at home or whatever is what makes you more likely to do all of those things, right? So it's something you should look at whenever you read a study. What's causing what? And sometimes it's the reverse. Sometimes it's not what you necessarily think. Yeah. I also don't think that it's a good idea. I mean, I remember having this conversation with my little brother when he was getting to that age, I think it was 20 years old. And at that time, he has an older brother who was in the cannabis space. So I had the two cannabis clubs. And hard for me to tell him, don't smoke weed. It's like when I'm running a shop like that. But being really concerned with him, that it would consume him to where he's doing that every day.  It's just, I mean, and it's less about it's weed. It's that you're medicating with anything. Yeah, because I bet if you took weed away from him, he would do something else. It would be something else. Yeah, it'd be alcohol or it'd be food or some other drug or something else that he is distracted. I mean, when you do anything like that, right, especially a drug at all, right, if you're doing anything, you're medicating or you're distracting yourself from something else that you're not dealing with.  And I bet you would see the same correlation. I 100% agree. All right, so do you guys hear about what happened to Bitcoin recently? Oh, with Tesla, sort of, you know, what'd they do? They just rejected the accepting interest. So Elon initially said a little while ago, he said, we will now accept Bitcoin as payment for Tesla, right? So he said that before. Now they came out and said, we will no longer accept Bitcoin for Tesla because of the carbon footprint or the energy use. So here's what happens. To mine it? Yeah, when people are mining Bitcoin. There are factories that are doing this. They do, and it takes a tremendous amount of processing power and energy, and a lot of these places are fueled by coal plants, especially in China. So he says, we're not going to take it anymore until they find better ways of mining for Bitcoin that's less damaging. Anyway, because they're no longer accepting Bitcoin, the price of Bitcoin totally went down. Just from him saying that? Well, I mean, he also made Dogecoin or Dogecoin or whatever explode because all he said was it's a cool coin or something like that. So now people are pissed because they're like... How crazy is that? Well, and people are pissed because they're like, he's manipulating the market because the truth is, I don't know, how many Tesla's they had slotted for sale with Bitcoin? It was like 50, like, okay, what's the environmental impact of 50 cars getting bought by Bitcoin? And he's owns, I think they own a tremendous amount anyway. Is he trying to drive the price down to buy more? Like, what's the deal? Or is he getting ahead of all this effort and emphasis now on environmental issues? Like you're seeing politically, it's kind of shifting more into that whole direction again. I feel like he was aware of all that stuff beforehand. I'm on the side of manipulating the market, right? Like, I mean, it would be so tempting... Because it dropped a lot. It went from like 59,000 to 50, like right away. What smart business person wouldn't? That's what I'm saying. It'd be so tempting if you have that kind of power where you can tweet something like, I don't like something. I mean, what's her face? Yeah, Kardashian did that. That Kardashian, when she did it with Snapchat. Crushed it, yeah. With one message or whatever.  Because you could technically get away with like it's not insider trading.  You said an opinion or say, hey, our company's not going to do this. You know what, too? I would like to see... I don't know what this looks like, so I'm just speculating. But I would like to see the environmental impact of creating paper money. You're using paper from trees. You have to use power plants to make this paper. They don't use recycled paper? I don't know. I don't know. I think I'm pretty sure it's a special kind of paper that they use to prevent counterfeiting. You know, the ink and all that stuff. I wonder, because sometimes it's not as obvious, right? You see one thing like plastic bags. Oh, no, that's bad for the environment. But then when you look at the amount of water, and production, and transport that requires for paper bags, you actually see that it's not clear. Yeah, isn't that kind of calling the kettle black, too, with him considering that that's how it is with electric car batteries and stuff? Yeah, I just can bring that up. Wasn't there a study recently about mining for these types of minerals and things, like how much more of an environmental impact that was making besides fossil fuels? Yeah, it's not as clear and easy as you think. Okay, so money is made from something called rag paper, which is made from cotton and linen, whereas normal paper is made from cellulose found in trees. So I don't know how much of a difference that makes. Rag paper. Yeah, but I know that it's obviously special paper. There's like so many steps and things that they do to prevent counterfeiting. Well, they're printing a lot of it right now. Well, speaking of that and inflation, did you guys see the Tim Kennedy post that he did just a couple days ago? Did you see that? Yeah, so let's talk about this. Pull that up, Doug, so we can actually. What's happening with this whole gas crisis and why everything is just skyrocketing? Yeah, well, there was a pipeline that got hacked and that reduced the production of gas or the transmission.  Well, it got hacked, held hostage, by the way. I read, I don't know if this is true, but I read that they paid a ransom of $5 million. According to Tim Kennedy, it did, and they got it.  You start showing terrorists that you actually will pay. You're gonna open up a whole can of worms there.  But I think most of them are accurate. Yeah, I think they are. Those are accurate numbers. I don't know for sure, but lumber is up 400%, right? And I think he doesn't have this on here, but I've read lumber, steel. Steel nail, anything to produce a lot of the materials for construction. I've talked to a lot of contractors and they've expressed how expensive the materials are. Gasoline up 130%, national debt, okay, we can talk about that all day, whatever. National inflation is up to 4.2, but the highest amount we've seen since 2008, although this is the very beginning. We're gonna see. Just wait, though. We'll just tax it, all of it, and then it'll all reset, right? No, no. Was that the theory? No, it's gonna get, we're gonna see some serious. And you know what's funny, when they give these numbers, oftentimes they take out food and gas. When they report numbers on inflation, they literally take out the two things that people need the most, which is food and gas. Is that true? Yes. So when you get these reports, like inflation is only at whatever percent, but they don't include food and gas. That's true. True story. Really? Yes, it is. Why?   Those are the necessities. Yeah, I'm buying those things every day. I know, I see all the same people that hoarded the toilet paper and now hoarding gasoline, you see that? Oh my God. You see all the pictures? Like plastic bags, even, they're fooling up.  What the wrong? That don't even make sense to me. A plastic bag of gas. Dude, and then all the gas in the back of your trunk, like so many crashes into the back of your trunk. Well, people, okay, isn't there like a, like there's a risk, right, with filling plastic containers with gas, right? Because of static. I would imagine also it would eat away at that too. Yeah. Yeah, and good, how are you going to, are you going to siphon it out of that to get it into your gas tank? What a headache that would be too. Yeah, yeah. Because apparently there's lines at some gas stations that are like an hour or so long because of this pipe damage. But even before that, gas prices were going up quite a bit. Some of this is due to the reduced supply because of COVID, like lumber and building materials was a big reduced supply because they shut things down. And then there's also in combination with this incredible printing of money, which we still haven't, this, whatever inflation we're seeing now is nothing compared to what we're about. It hasn't made its impact. Well, that's why, I mean, there's many people that are speculating that we're going to experience hyperinflation. Yes, and they're like, it's going to be a short-term transient period of hyperinflation. That's not a good thing. Like when you go to buy something and it's 15 or 20% more expensive, it's like add 20% to your bills. And by the way, when they do these policies and they say that we're helping poor and lower middle class, that's why we're doing this, who are the people that are most likely to suffer the most from prices going up 15 or 20%? Not wealthy people. We could afford to pay more than 20%. It's people who are living paycheck to paycheck and all of a sudden they're like, do I buy? Well, even if they maintain the price point, like they're going to be a lot less, like companies, like they're going to produce a lot less in the market. So there was toilet paper companies are actually putting less sheets in, so they'll have, you'll still have your 12 pack of toilet paper, but not realizing that rather than having, instead of having, I don't know, 150 squares or whatever now it's down to 200 in order to keep the price the same. So people don't think. I'm surprised that a lot of them don't do that as a business anyways.  Yeah, they do that. Hey, we're going to take 10% off. Nobody's going to feel or see a difference. They do that. No, yeah, I was going to say that. Yeah, they do do that. Yeah, that is a strategy. So now here's what I'm going to predict. Yeah, now I'm going to make this. They do do that. Yeah, they do do that. They do do do that. Wow, that was an accidental joke. Yeah, I know. So here's some, I'm going to say this so that it's on air because this is what's going to happen, right? So when prices go up, politicians are going to come out and try to help everybody by enacting, and this might happen on a local level. Hopefully never, I don't think it'll happen on a big federal level, but they'll try to enact price controls on staple items. Oh my gosh, milk is too expensive. People need milk or food. So now what we're going to do is we're going to say that they can't sell these products for more than this. And a lot of people who have no idea how economics or markets work. Fucks all the farmers. Well, not just that. They're going to think, oh, this is good. They're going to help us. And then what's going to happen is you're going to have shortages. Shortages. You're going to go to the store, no milk, no eggs, no nothing. And then you're going to be rationed, just like we were with toilet paper. Remember when the toilet paper thing happened and you had to go and you went to the store? They said you can only buy one roll. What they need to do is allow the prices to reflect supply and demand because that actually attracts more producers and it drives the real price down. That's right. It drives the real price down instead of creating shortages. All right, we're about to get to the questions, but hold on one second.  All kinds of guides and they cost nothing. Download them, learn some free stuff so that you can get your body in incredible shape. Again, it's mindpumpfree.com. All right, now that you've done that, enjoy the rest of the podcast. Our first caller is Johan from Florida. Hey, Johan, how can we help you? Hey, guys, how are you doing? Good, all right. Are you good at yourselves? Good, good. So actually, the thing is that I'm calling because I have been having some shoulder discomfort every single time I've been doing bench presses or the like. And it's gotten to the point where I can't even sleep right or whenever I try to do a bench press, whether I do a shoulder press or whatever, it really, really starts to hurt on both of my shoulders. So it's been really getting to me because this has happened before. I ended up, you know, just waiting out, waiting it out. But I was doing aesthetic and then it came back. And I was right at the end of aesthetic when that came back. So I decided just to take it slow and went back to anabolic right now. But it's still ongoing. And as I was telling you, I can't sleep that well anymore right now due to this comfort. Okay, that's a pretty common issue. Before we get into details, I'm going to ask you a couple other questions. Before we do that, it is common for people to have shoulder issues, shoulder mobility issues. I do want to know where the shoulder pain is. It's usually either in the front of the shoulder or behind, kind of behind the shoulder. Where do you feel your shoulder pain? Right in the front. Okay, so very common. Okay, so typically that's bicep tendon inflammation. So the bicep tendon runs over the front of the humerus, that's the top of the arm. And you'll start to get inflammation there and then you'll start to get pain right on the front of the shoulder. And this is a result of poor function in the shoulder. So more presses will actually cause more problems. Now what a lot of people do is they stop pressing and then the pain goes away and they think that's the solution. That doesn't solve the root cause. What you're doing is you're just avoiding movement that bothers you, which is okay to relieve the pain, but it doesn't solve any of the issues at all. So a couple of things we need to do. Number one, let's work on some bicep flexibility. So static stretches for the bicep. That's still not going to solve the problem though. What we need to work on is the mid-back muscles that pull the shoulder blades back and down. And also work on some basic shoulder mobility movements. You'll find in a program like Maps Prime Pro, like an example would be a shoulder dislocate or hang cuffs with rotation or even the wall test in Maps Prime. Work on those things because here's the deal. Especially common exercises like bench presses and rows and overhead presses. You should be able to perform them without pain. So it's almost never the case where somebody's body just isn't made for those exercises. Usually their body just isn't moving right for those exercises. Johan, did you listen to the most recent episode that we did on how to improve your bench press? Yes, yes I did. Okay, yeah, we addressed some good stuff in there. So we talked about some of the suspension trainer W's. I know I talked about inside there. So a lot of those priming movements, I think you're going to benefit, but back to the bicep. I mean, you have to know how to static stretch a bicep. First of all, I don't know if we've even taught that on the channel, have we? Have we taught a bicep stretch? Yeah, no, I don't think so. I mean, it's a good one to add to the list.  Just turn away from it. Yeah, until you feel your bicep stretch. Actually, in fact, if you did some static stretching on your biceps right before you bench press, I guarantee you probably already feel relief just from doing that. Yeah, my protocol would be... So it's the right... Bicep stretch is the opposite of what it would be contracted. So if you contract it, and it looks like... I know we're on YouTube, right? So if it looks like this, you open up and you completely rotate the opposite way. I hope we zoomed in on your bicep when you did that. Yeah. Damn! This is the right bicep. That's right. That's no pump, Sal. That's what it looks like without any push-ups in the bathroom. This is super common, though, is the point. Like, this is actually something that I would... It was a limiting factor for me with bench. You'd inevitably get up to that point. You'd start to feel a pain either in the front or the back of the shoulder. And so this is where I started to put more emphasis on mobility work and also rotational work to get my shoulder to track better and to be able to feel more secure and stabilized. And so to get yourself back into that mentality of trying to really stabilize, protect, and build strength around and support around your shoulders, everything. Okay. All right. Perfect. So again, prime before your lifts. Work on shoulder mobility. Do some static stretches of your bicep. Do you have prime or prime pro? I only have prime right now. I've been doing some of the static stretches. With that wall test. Doug, send him over prime pro. So he's got that too. But yeah, I would take some of the advice that we did in that bench press episode because I believe we address all mobility, stability stuff for the shoulder. The only thing we didn't... We didn't address bicep stretching. So that needs to be something that becomes like a protocol for you before you start any of your lifting is get a good stretch on that bicep. And then I would do all the shoulder stability work and then go into it. And like Sal said, you should feel... It should feel better right away just from doing that. But it doesn't end there. You got to keep addressing that. Okay. Thank you guys so much for you to appreciate that. No problem. Thanks for calling, John. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I think here's the big challenge with pain with people and exercises. Two things. Either one, they start to decide that this exercise just isn't for me. I've heard many times people say things like... Avoid it. Yeah. Oh, I can't bench or I can't squat or I can't whatever because of this particular pain. That's a problem because you never solve the issue and it's a fundamental movement. Pressing horizontally across your body is a pretty fundamental movement. And then the second issue is that people will wait for the pain to go away either by maybe they are doing some mobility work or by avoiding the exercise pain goes away and they think the problem is solved. It's actually not solved. The pain might have gone away but you still have the issue and the pain will come back. Or they treat those mobility drills like an intensified exercise and they overdo it and a lot of times exaggerating the inflammation of it. And so there's a bit of a healing process to that as well but you really have to figure out that sweet spot of like it's a continual thing, it's a frequency thing with less intensity. Well, the other mistake they make is they lack the correct intent when they do mobility stuff. So one of the challenges I felt that we've always had with creating Prime and Prime Pro as this virtual program and not being there to coach it is getting people to understand the intent. Like you could do a handcuff with rotation and it could be like whatever type of and not even be hard, you know, just kind of go through the motion and then you could do it and you'll break a sweat doing five reps doing it because the intent is completely different. So you have to understand when you're trying to gain a greater range of motion you have to be challenging those in ranges of motion and connecting to those muscles that do that and that there's a lot of intent there and if you don't understand how to do that and you just watch a video you just kind of go through the movements. And I do want to add to that within reason, right? So just like when you work out, you're not trying to go to failure and you're not trying to go beyond a particular limit.  Don't go beyond that. It's just threshold. Yeah, don't go beyond that. Play within your particular edges of pain. I'm connecting. Oh, that's a little too far. Let's back off a little bit and then slowly work from there. But I tell you what, this front shoulder pain issue from bench pressing. I mean, at one point this was like, I actually loved it when clients would come with me with that problem because You needed to release it right away. Right away. It was almost like an easy fix, that particular issue. Our next caller is Marie from Texas. Hey Marie, how can we help you? Hi, so I am currently running the PED program and I'm on the last phase. I'm in the second week and I'm just wondering where I should go from there to reach my goals. My overall goal, I have two goals concerning my nutrition and fitness. My first goal, this is kind of weird, but I want to get to where I'm eating 3,000 calories a day. I know that's weird, but first of all, I love food. Second of all, I know it'll also cause me to build muscle because I'll need the muscle to eat that. But I do, and then, of course, my second goal is to be, just like get back into my, I used to be super fit and not that I'm not anymore, but I want to get back to the strengths-oriented fitness that I used to love. I do have a history of overtraining. So that's why I did PED because even that was a step down from what I was doing. Wow. So I was just really, really, really sad. That's a pinnacle program. I have a feeling you're going to know how we're going to answer this. You're just not going to like how we're going to answer this. Yeah. I mean, is there more? Yeah. I'm still kind of trying to work it down a little. Even when I did PED, I was doing way too much. I just, in the past two months, got to where I was doing the three days on one day off, which I still don't really do a day off. So I'm still trying. I want to say something right now, since this is a perfect opportunity to talk about this. When we wrote PED, part of the hesitancy of us writing it was that it would attract someone just like you. Was that we knew that, and that was why it was one of the last programs. We knew that there are examples of people that can utilize that program, that could scale to that volume, and that it makes sense to do that. But then we also know that there's a large percentage of the population that over-train, and they're going to be drawn to something like this when we know better, and we know that they should be doing something different. And so the program that comes to mind right away for me, knowing that about you, is I would push you in the MAPS anabolic direction. Totally.  So it's a very advanced bodybuilder-style program that for some people can be extremely effective, but it could also lead to overtraining more so than any of our other programs. Okay. Now because you tend to over-train, that's an issue, admittedly, and the fact that you said that PED with, and I know how much volume is in that program because I wrote it with the guys, the fact that that was a step down from what you were already doing, that's already a lot. So here's what I'm going to ask you to do. Okay. How long have you been listening to the show, Marie? Only since December. I discovered in December, and then that's when I purchased the program. Okay. Now on a scale of one to 10, be honest, how much do you like the show and how much do you trust us? On a scale of one to 10, I like the show at like a, probably a 10. Trust. Okay. Now listen, my dad said, don't trust anybody but family, and even then be skeptical. But I do like that style specifically, like you go in and you do the studies because I'm an anthropology major right now, so I love studies. So I trust that for sure. Okay. All right. Well, do you trust this as far as fitness information is concerned? I mean, okay. All right. So you're not going to let me watch your kids, but you trust me with fitness information. Smart. Okay. So here's what I want you to do. Okay. And I'm glad you gave me a little bit of background.  Sounds like you're intelligent. I can tell by the way you're talking, and obviously your education points to the fact that you can be quite objective. Now here's the challenge. Intelligent, objective people tend to be the easiest fooled by themselves, right? Because you're smart, because you're objective, you probably can convince yourself of almost anything. In other words, you may have a feeling or an issue, and then you'll convince yourself of the truth of that issue using your objective reasoning, your ability to reason, and you'll do this with yourself. So here's what I'm going to ask you to do. I want you to step outside of yourself for a second. I want you to trust the science, and also trust the experts. Okay.  Okay. We're the fitness experts. We've been doing this for a very, very long time. I've trained and worked with a lot of people just like you. Okay. I've trained a lot of people just like you, and then here's the most important part. I am very much like you. Actually, many, many ways, just from talking to you, I can very much identify with what you're going through. So here's what I'm going to ask you to do. I want you to blindly trust the workout programming. I want you to do maps and a balik, and do three foundational workouts a week. So in the program, we give the option of doing two to three. I think you could probably handle three. And then on your off days, do three trigger sessions a day. Now, the trigger sessions need to be at a low to moderate intensity. And I want you to trust the program, and here's what's going to help you. I want you to start listing the weight that you're working out with, and look at the trends of strength. If your strength is trending in a positive direction, then there is your evidence right there, and that evidence right there, being somebody as logical and as objective as you can be, is should overpower your feelings of, oh my God, I need to do more, right? So, oh, I need to do more. But wait a minute. The data is saying that I'm getting stronger. So I'm moving in the right direction. So I want you to trust it and go for it. It's a three month program. Do you think you could do that? Do you think you could suspend your tendencies for three months and just go, just based off the science and the data? Yes. I think that's like, so this is just a quick background.  And when I got out, I think I would actually, like, if I look in the mirror, whatever, I gained weight, whatever, little depressing, but not too big. But the biggest thing was when I went in the gym and I couldn't do a push-up, I cried. Like I literally cried in the gym. There was nobody else there, so it's fine. But yeah. So I think that I could do that. My only other issue is because I was so intense with cardio as well, like I built up to like an hour and I was running 10 miles a day and I don't do that anymore. But I still do like an hour a day and I'm trying to take that down. So I don't know how I would do that. I don't, because I've heard some people say you can just quit the cardio. I've heard some people say tamper off of it while you're reverse dieting. Just switch to walking. Switch to walking. Don't get rid of it completely. Just switch to walking. That's it. Now, do you- Can I also walk? Okay. So like I do cardio and walking. Okay. So here's, I mean, this might be a more complicated conversation, but it feels like you're using alcohol, excuse me, exercise. Like someone may use alcohol or other substances and what I mean by that, and I know I've been there. Okay. It's a exercise feels good. It's distracting. It also gives you a very strong sense of control because you're doing something, right? This is something I can control. I can do this when maybe you feel out of control in other areas. So I know what it would mean to take it away completely without replacing it with something else. That would put you probably in a pretty scary situation. So do this, okay? Go ahead and continue to walk. Instead of your hour long cardio, let's take that laser like focus and that obsession and let's move it to yin yoga. Let's move it to something like that. Yeah. Move it to yin yoga. Something that's okay.  Actually, don't over complicate this. I don't do anything. I can't sit for more than that. No, but okay, that's okay. But should I completely stop? No, no, no, no, no, don't, don't change. You don't, I'm not going to change your schedule. I'm just walk instead, instead of getting on like a stair master or going hard for that hour. Just walk. It's okay. Walking is totally fine. Totally fine. And even though you walk already intentionally, the cardio session, the high intensity stuff, that's what I want you to stop. That just needs to be walking. So that's walking now or mobility or yoga. We don't need to cut out that out of your routine. There's nothing wrong with you just moving, but it's the high intensity thing that is going to be counterproductive to trying to build your metabolism like you said you want to do. So we're not going to make you stop that, stop moving or stop going to the gym or wherever you were doing your cardio. Just switch it from high intensity to just be more therapeutic, walking or doing something that's working inward. Murray, Murray, how feasible is it for you to hire a coach or a trainer, either online or in person? Is this something that's feasible for you or is that out of the... Yes, so actually before COVID hit, I was, I actually want to start getting into powerlifting. Like that's my goal. My goal is to just be a badass in the gym again. Like I love when I go in there and people underestimate me and I pick up 50 pound weights and like what are you doing?  So I was gonna start meeting with a coach and then COVID hit and everything shut down. I'm starting to look again. It's hard in this area. I don't know. Like there's a lot of coaches I'm skeptical about because I just don't... I'll ask them certain questions and it doesn't really click. And I'm like, mm-hmm. Okay, Murray. Let me eat 1600 calories a day. I'm like, no. All right, Murray, let's do this then. When we get off here, I want you to DM me, remind me who you are and I'm gonna talk to Jason Phillips and I'm gonna get a recommendation for a good online coach. He's the owner of NCI certifications. He has a lot of really good coaches working for him. And I'm gonna find... I'm gonna tell him kind of what we talked about and then he'll recommend a good coach for you because I think that's gonna be essential for you. I think it's gonna be essential that you work with someone on a daily basis. She's also in the... She's in the LCK area. She's in Laura Christie King. Okay, well, DM me and I'm gonna see if I can find somebody for her. I think Laura would be great for the nutrition part. But anabolic right now and then I would follow it up with PowerLift. That'd be a great program to run right after you do anabolic. I love that. Do you have Maps Anabolic? No. All right, we'll send it. I just have the... We'll send it right over to you. Okay. All right, thanks, Murray. Thanks for calling in. Don't forget to DM me, okay? Okay, thank you. Bye-bye. Oh, yeah. I about died when she said that was a step down for what she was doing and then when you guys were trying to give her stuff to do and she's like, I already do that. I already do that. Yeah, I know. Oh, man. It's like such a busy body that we're dealing with here. And I'm just like... I mean, that was the first thing that came to mind is like sometimes you just... You kind of have to like play the game of like if you're gonna be so busy and doing things, like why don't you do things that are recuperative? I'm so glad though that we got this question because I don't feel like we've had the ability to address what we used to talk about off air before we created PED. This was a major concern of ours. Yeah, we were worried about that. When we wrote... And why we waited till the last program to write this was because we knew that we'd had lots of clients just like this and knew that they would be attracted to that type of a program knowing damn well that that's not the program they should be running and sure as shit, here's a perfect example of the client that is... that is drawn to that program but we know that should be in something completely different. And I mean the truth is this and this is the honest to God truth a person like this is harder to work with than a person who doesn't work out at all.  This is a very challenging situation. This is... And again, I can identify with this. The exercise is used like a drug and so you're dealing with other issues. Exercise isn't the problem. It's just the method. Yeah, it's an outlet. Yeah, there's a root issue here and so we could give her all the advice in the world but I don't think it's going to work unless she works with someone on a regular basis. It's a very tough thing to work through and break through especially in the scale down because once you start to scale down oh my gosh, what am I doing? And then oh my God, I'm losing muscle. I think I'm gaining body fat. Oh my God, I... This is paranoia as you said. Yeah, I'm sitting with myself on my thoughts and now I feel this way and whatever. It's a very challenging situation to get out of and so I think working with someone this is I mean that's what she would benefit from. She has to want to do it though of course. Yeah. All right, our next caller is Cody from Michigan. What's up Cody? How can we help you? Hey guys, so happy to be here. I actually have a pretty specific question I would love to get some help on. When I was like younger about eight years ago I was surfing and I hyper extended my shoulder when the board hit it causing kind of the muscles to tear that connected my shoulder to my chest and since then I haven't really been able to do like a full range of motion on my bench press and dips and flies tend to give me some issues there. I really thought it was like a bunch of scar tissue until recently when I listened to your Y-warm sort of waste of time and maybe found out that it might actually just be tight muscles and was kind of curious your perspective on how to tackle that so I can kind of get the most out of my workouts. Yeah, no. So it's actually a good question. Oftentimes injuries lead to long-term dysfunction and if it doesn't get solved it leads to long-term pain and issues so I've had clients who come to me with back pain and I'll say okay well why does your back hurt and say well I actually hurt my back like oh when did you hurt your back and oh 15 years ago or something like that, right? So what happens is the injury causes compensations nothing gets corrected those become your default, right? That becomes your default movement pattern and then it doesn't get fixed unless you can fix those movement patterns. So what I would do is I would work very intently on shoulder mobility I would work on some of the movements for example that you find in maps prime pro I would do those on a regular basis I would prime my movements and then something easy you can do is those challenging exercises the ones that you when you do them you feel kind of weird or a little off I would actually practice those movements stay within your limits and slowly increase your range of motion so when you do your fly for example go down to the point where you're like okay this feels okay I know if I go a little further than this it'll hurt me don't go heavy by the way whenever you're doing correctional exercise you're going light and then slowly increase your range of motion over time oftentimes that by itself can help solve some of the issues I'm trying to picture the injury right now so I'm assuming like he went down like this right he caught himself on the board and then it tore right there so yeah what happened was the wave caught me but not the board and then when I was kind of doing a somersault in the water my arm came out and the board caught my arm and hyper extended it back actually dislocated my shoulder too and when I hit the ground it popped my shoulder back back into place and then I had a bunch of bruising and pooling in my actual like bicep from the injury not nasty no surgery nothing you did afterwards no so it was just physical therapy for months and I couldn't even bench the bar for about six months of course and then so which this actually brings up like a follow-up question to to Sal your point is if I'm doing my actual workouts where I'm trying to do have your weight and not correctional should I just continue to work in my range of motion while doing the other stuff on the side to increase that range only if you want to not improve so I yet no don't don't worry about challenging weight while you're doing correctional exercise don't forget that there's many ways to if you haven't listened the episode where we did nine ways I think we called it to progressively overload remember we always tend to like and we're all guilty this high me too right like to go to weight as the way to progressively overload the body to get more results and it's only one of the many ways that you can continue to overload the body and it's someone like you I would channel tempo first almost always and range of motion first so like to progress in that area instead of like you adding weight to the bar you know pause at the bottom of the the exercise and hold or create like an an isometric contraction and slow down the tempo or do unilateral work and like we were talking the other day about alternating dumbbell presses like these are the type of movements that I'm going to push you in the direction of because we can still build your chest and build your shoulders and build the body without necessarily always increasing the weight yeah I would look at this more as an opportunity to really address you know where you're at in terms of like the the stability and overall function of the joint and so to really find the thresholds and see exactly where those lie in terms of your range of motion like where's my limitations and you know kind of can I go there and can I stay there and can I increase tension in the muscle and build more support you know around that and then inevitably your body will start allowing you you know more range of motion because it's secure there and that's going to translate back to when you get into weights you're going to be able to lift more and you're going to be even more functional and and without pain so Cody have you done did you do Justin's webinar that he did on prime I haven't yet no I actually have prime I just haven't to be honest haven't used it as much as I should do the webinar that Justin did he does the wall the wall circles to me or like the one of the first thing that comes to mind like I would I would try and get really good at those and he he takes you through those in that webinar so go to the go to the free webinar watch that and and get good at that movement we did those specifically too because the intent of it is and this is something Adam brought up with another question it's the intent is everything when it comes to these types of drills and really understanding your body and where those limitations lie and like how to gradually progress your way through that so it's not something that you just all of a sudden you just gain access by doing these miracle type of exercise it's it's really the intention you bring into the exercise and then it needs to be coached through so this is one of those things that you know we put out to help you through that process yeah and coding back to the to the you know the using heavy resistance and whatever here's the problem with using heavier resistance when you have dysfunction that's causing problems the second you push heavy weight the second you push lots of intensity your body will revert to its to the the recruitment pattern that it's most comfortable using right so to give you an example if I only ever type on a typewriter with my two index fingers at some point I'm going to get kind of good at it right but I'm never going to be as good as if I used all my fingers properly right so if somebody came to me and I didn't practice you know typing properly at all I've only ever done with my index fingers and someone says type as fast as you can I'm going to go with my with what I know and in the truth is that is the fastest way I can type but if I want to go even faster I have to back off and practice intently and slowly with a lot of awareness with the the the method and technique that will allow me to eventually surpass my previous best so if you add weight and you go heavy you're not going to correct anything your body's going to go to what it does best which is this kind of default you know pattern and you'll never get any better so you got to back off but that doesn't mean that doesn't mean you can't progressively overload you can still overload the body with things like tempo and isometrics and slowing the rep down challenging their in range of motion like so there's great ways for you still to to build your chest and see progression we just always say all of us are guilty of this we just tend to default to like oh more weight more weight but it I mean Sal's point in a situation like this you will always go back to your default pattern if you try to increase weight it's just natural so and you got to fight that urge and I've been doing that I've I've I've just been messing with a shorter range of motion and getting stronger in that specific yeah like half range yeah you're actually making your dysfunction stronger so the stronger you get with the dysfunction the harder it will be to correct because it's now a stronger more solidified dysfunction so good job well I mean well then looking at like maps anabolic right which is what I'm currently following am I then intended to do with a flat bench press but working more in the mobility during that that cycle versus like the weight correct remember we remember we wrote these programs for the average person but you have to listen to your body and you have to individualize it if I were training you that's how I would train you I would not train you by pushing weight on those movements no way that'd be the wrong thing to do so it's fine with the dead lifts and the squats and the movements that are okay for you when you get to those other exercises you're focused on range of motion you're focused on technique and mobility and function you're not focused on adding more weight and trust me if you do this right at some point you'll go back to being able to push the weight and then you'll surpass whatever you're doing now by far well this is a perfect example again too of like you know to your points how we created these programs with the intent that clients would learn from the the stuff we talk about on the show how to change and kind of modify it yeah because anabolic is a perfect like a format or base to be following I think it's a great program but like if you are an actual client of mine and we're on anabolic and today is you know incline barbell press you know I might take you to alternating you know dumbbell presses in incline instead of that and I'm going to put emphasis on the depth and range of motion the control we might add an I can an isometric pause in it like I'm going to challenge your issue and try and get you better at that opposed to just loading the barbell but then the rest of the program I'm following it like you know right to protocol so the idea of what we created these is like okay here's a solid base for 99% of the population but then you have these exceptions to the rule like Cody who okay we need to just modify this one thing for him and this will better you so you can follow anabolic but then just adjust little things like that it's perfect time for the call I just finished my first cycle throughout I'll restart with your guys's tips in mind thank you excellent no problem yeah you know the the audience doesn't know the challenges that we actually have had as trainers creating programs to sell online to the potential masses this was actually a big issue for us because I love writing programs but you know you got to remember I was a personal trainer for a long time Justin and Adam were both also personal trainers for a long time and when we wrote programs this is what good trainers do I don't write a program until I assess someone until I watch them move and the program changes with each workout depending on all of those things it's extremely individualized oh yeah not only that how many times did you guys call an audible halfway through a workout right I might have assessed you I might have seen you a handful of times wrote your exercise your your exercises for the day thinking that I built something perfect for you start to see so and then see something that I didn't see before and go oh wow audible instead of this exercise and I'm going to do this instead or maybe Cody I'm training him for a while he's never mentioned this to me until we get into bench and I'm wondering why he's off and then he tells me that I'm like oh shit well I'm going to address that now and so that is a perfect example yeah we had to just think of like like foundational fundamental ways to train the body that that translates to to almost everybody and then from there it's like okay so you have at least a benchmark a standard of of what you're trying to pursue but there's room in there to be flexible to adjust to modify things to to individualize individualizing it is everything and and that's just something that comes with practice it comes with experience and in knowing what to do when situations like this occur and like how to adjust then so we can bring you back to sort of you know that you know that framework yeah well the truth is we wouldn't be selling online workout programs if we didn't have a podcast that people could learn from if we didn't have YouTube channels with more instruction if we didn't have a back almost 2000 episodes like we've tried to be able to explain all these concepts that you can then apply within that framework so it's it's a lot more complicated unfortunately than people think our next caller is Jenna from Iowa hey Jenna how can we help you yes first of all I'm a big fan I'm a personal trainer here at the University of Iowa got a lot of clients and so I take all of your guys's advice my question is very personal though I am a 38-year-old mother of two and I love competing in Strongman and Powerlifting competitions I competed in my first Strongman competition this year and about two months ago my husband and I started a plant-based diet so I don't call it vegan because it's actually more restrictive than vegan we basically eat plant-based we try to stay away from processed foods which is pretty similar to what you guys recommend on your podcast and we've really been enjoying it it's been saving our family money and my digestion and sleep have improved my energy levels are amazing and it's cleared up my skin which is pretty awesome but there's been one downside to eating plant-based as opposed to when I was eating meat and dairy and all the fun stuff and that's my powerlifting weights and my Strongman lifting weights have all decreased about five to 15 pounds which for me is the competitor and someone who really enjoys getting strong has been super frustrating so I didn't know if you guys had advice on why all the other things in my life are improving but my strength is not so any advice you can give would be very helpful I want to ask one a couple questions before Sal jumps in and talks for 15 minutes do you currently supplement with creatine by chance? so I supplement with creatine about five milligrams I think per day and I also try to take a protein powder and eat a lot of beans but I know you guys have talked about being vegan in the past it's very hard to eat that many beans and they're pretty bland to be honest so yeah I try to watch my protein that was my next question was do you track your protein intake consistently because that would if you're already supplementing creatine that would be the first thing the second thing I would ask is how consistent are you with hitting 100 grams plus of protein every day? so I'm not consistent hitting that high and you know I've read a lot on vegan plant-based diets they actually recommend a lot less protein per body weight so I've been anywhere from I would say more 50 to 60 grams of protein per day and that's been pretty hard to achieve yeah that's too low yeah that's why you're feeling it yeah if you're if everything was controlled right so if your calories were the same as before your proteins fats and carbs were the same as before you know Adam mentioned creatine creatine it benefits vegans quite a bit because they don't get any from their plant-based sources so if you're doing that you're not having any nutrient deficiencies and everything else is controlled and then you come and say hey I'm weaker then we're gonna have to look a little deeper but I would it's probably due to the fact that your calories and or your protein or other macronutrients aren't matching what they were before now here's what I would do I would try to get and I know what they recommend with the plant-based you know the plant-based advice is to eat less protein and here's why they say that the reason why they say that is because it's hard to get protein yeah from plant-based sources there really is no evidence or value of eating low protein except for maybe in some exceptions there may be some exceptions to that particular rule but otherwise a high protein diet not only is it safe it's healthy and for performance it's superior so a couple things you could do either try to get more protein from your food but if that's difficult which it sounds like it is I would supplement with plant-based protein powders to make up for it and then here's the other thing I want you to keep in mind I'm glad you said that your digestion and sleep and skin are better because that is showing that there may be some benefits sometimes the benefits are not because you're not eating meat but rather because you're not eating processed foods or other foods that or you're incorporating a lot more vegetables and you're used to eating in your diet which has you know a great effect in terms of being anti inflammatory so you know there's some benefits that you're realizing from that but also too was it was it a conscious decision to stop eating meat like what was that decision process going into this my husband read a book called How Not to Die which was a really popular book published a couple years ago showing the links between a plant-based diet and increased lifespan and I think we did it for our kids but I got really discouraged because it seemed like it was almost impossible to be a strong man athlete or successful power lifter and be vegan and so it's just it's been harder path than I realized and this is this is the problem I have with any diet this is uh if you guys aren't doing it for any other reason than that first of all it's it's not hard to write a book cherry pick studies and make something sound like it's better than something else and if you guys are not opposed to adding some fish or chicken or turkey into the diet every once in a while to increase your protein intake there's nothing wrong with that. I mean I just recently switched over to eating I should say a carnivore-esque diet and the reason why I said esque and I quickly announced it and talked about on the podcast that I'm not following somebody's protocol in a book that I have to do these certain things my idea is I'm using it like an elimination diet I'm getting rid of a lot of the other stuff and then I'm just going to slowly add stuff into back into my diet and pay attention to how I feel like Sal and Justin both alluded to you obviously have seen positive benefits for you to switch over that now it doesn't mean that it was that meat was causing all those issues before it just probably means that you're getting either lots of benefits from eating all the vegetables that you were eating or you've eliminated a single thing or two that was the offender and if you're okay and open to it I would start to reintroduce one source of protein that maybe comes from meat into your diet and just see how you feel like maybe just start with fish you know because that's going to be probably one of the easiest ones or chicken and see how you guys feel if it helps boost your protein intake you see strength go up and you don't see any side effects from it I would include that and still run your predominantly plant-based diet but then you have these little bits of protein that you're meat that you're using for to pump from it that would be what I would do Janet, Janet pay attention to libido pay attention to you said your strength is going down so look at libido that's an important thing look at your menstrual cycle or any other symptoms of hormone changes and this is for your husband as well okay because if you start to see those change in ways that don't seem healthy then what you're doing isn't entirely healthy I mean I would even I would I mean I would I'm actually going to give you different advice than Adam I'd say throw in some grass-fed beef or some eggs get some cholesterol get some of those saturated fats in there they actually have benefits when it comes to strength and muscle and getting strong is not unhealthy getting strong is healthy now of course you could do in unhealthy ways lots of anabolic steroids lots of you know body fat on your body to improve you know to increase leverage and that kind of stuff but if you're otherwise healthy lean you're natural you're not using drugs or whatever and you're getting strong or if you get weaker getting weaker is usually not a sign of overall better health right so in fact I'll tell you this much right now okay I know you guys read that book one of the greatest predictors of all cause mortality is weakness it's actually better grip strength it's better than whether or not someone's plant-based diet or not and also consider this when they do those studies or write these books they're comparing a whole natural food plant-based diet to the typical American diet that includes meat so you know oh these people eat meat and they're unhealthy well it's not necessarily the meat it's the buns that come with the burgers and fries and everything and all these excess calories so and I'll tell you what you know if you control your macros and calories I would challenge you to include some meat with in control calories and macros and make sure it's whole and natural and I would bet that you probably would feel better you probably now not everybody there's going to be exceptions to this rule but I would bet you're better so the fact that you're losing strength tells me that there's something that's lacking we're guessing that's protein I mean it's it's almost obvious it's protein it's almost obvious it's protein if you went for if she's barely hitting 50 or 60 I mean this is a classic example of one of the easiest things that I would help clients so it was very common for me to get a female client that was under consuming protein on a regular basis and just simply getting her protein up to 90 plus a day instantly she would feel the response of the gym try this have have some grass fed beef once right give yourself a serving of grass fed beef and then see how you feel the day after and if you feel better the day after there's there's a good sign that that's that's probably something that you need and usually that's what happens somebody will throw in I've had clients like you and I'll have them eat okay let's see you know a grass fed patty or steak tonight and then let's see how you feel tomorrow and it's like oh my god I feel stronger already and I'm like okay this is something that we might need include into your diet yeah something I should also add is I'm breastfeeding so I'm nursing a nine month old and so I kind of feel sometimes too that he takes a lot of out of me so I wonder if the whole nursing while power lifting training and everything is also contributing to the energy levels uh yeah actually that's a great that's a good point so you notice the strength also why you would need more protein yeah calories yes yeah you notice the strength losses when you started breastfeeding or will you already breastfeeding when you went plant based I was already breastfeeding when I went plant based but as soon as I went plant based the strength went down okay so it's probably due to the diet then I would say it's probably not due to the breastfeeding and by the way if you're if there's a nutrient that you're lacking because you've eliminated one of the most nutrient dense foods on the planet which is and this is a fact okay if you could only pick one food and survive now this is not ideal but if you only had to pick one food and survive off of it would be meat it wouldn't there's no single plant that can do that because because meat is very nutrient dense so if you're lacking a nutrient even before you get to nutrient deficiency where there's like you know like big outward signs if you're lacking a nutrient and it's not optimal it could be you know something that you pass on even through your breast milk so pay attention to that I would throw in a little bit of meat test it out don't throw five different types of meat at yourself at once I would leave dairy last because dairy tends to be the one that people have the highest intolerance to so throw in something you know it could be anything I would I would personally I would choose either eggs or grass-fed beef see how you feel if you feel great from it awesome and then start including those types of things and make sure you hit those protein requirements so those protein numbers that tend to be optimal for strength awesome thanks to guys like I said I'm a huge fan of the show listen to you guys all the time and thanks to Adam I'm here in Iowa outside walking my dog barefoot that's my girl that's my girl awesome thanks for calling in yeah yeah it's this is why I fucking hate the diet book fucking world and they do such a good job it's so convincing it is I mean read read you know Paul's Carnivore book read Rob's paleo but I mean you can cherry pick studies to put them all together to make the case that this way of eating is the most ideal but the reality is there's such an individual variance to every single person and if you're not doing it for moral reasons right which I know you ask one of you asked I was just gonna ask that right away and she said no they did it because of this book that for health yeah for health and then you notice strength go down well it's not a big indicator of health yeah and how your strength I mean we didn't ask her weight I'm assuming she weighs more than 100 pounds and so her eating 50 grams or less of protein right I mean right away I guarantee you she bumps that to 90 grams plus oh she'll feel that she'll feel that she'll feel it in the gym right yeah and that's the problem is people switch to a diet and they don't control all the factors and they're like oh my gosh I feel better and it's like you're eating less you're overeating before or you're not eating processed food that's probably what the issue was but yeah you gotta tease all that out yeah and you gotta be careful I mean nutrient deficiencies are way higher in in vegans than the armed people who eat an omnivore diet by the way I'm comparing healthy to healthy so I'm not comparing standard American crappy diet to plant based healthy to healthy more variety versus less variety you're gonna have more nutrient deficiencies it's a fact it's proven this is not even a debate so and I've worked with so many I've had so many female clients like this it's like I don't know why I feel this way I eat plant based will throw in a little red meat their hair stops falling out or their menstrual cycle comes back and it's like okay like you were not healthy yeah and it's not to say there's not outliers who benefit from that but also too like it's so difficult to get all those nutrients just with that specific diet itself yeah no you could not go plant based if it weren't for modern supermarkets that's it it's you would die there's no such thing as plant based hunter gatherers I love though that she's so consistent she's a consistent she's a trainer so she knows what she's doing so she could see this right if you're somebody who doesn't something is off right if you don't train consistently you don't you miss this you miss the signal that hey maybe this isn't perfect for me because then they see all these other benefits yeah the skin's clearing up right better sleep you know but then yeah there's some good that's right yeah these other and that's why too I wouldn't completely abandon the diet I wouldn't say oh stop that could still be the main thing but then just throw in even be temporary you know you go through this and then and then you come back to or just slowly introduce like you know we are all I mean I don't care what you pick well I mean pick eggs pick grass-fed beef pick fish pick one and introduce it just to just to increase the protein intake and whatever nutrients that you could get from that that you might not have been getting from plants see how you feel and then either okay just make that the one meat that you introduce and keep in there or start to slowly introduce the other ones and see how you feel too our next caller is Andrew from Texas what's up Andrew how can we help you hey guys thanks for having me on I am brand new to weightlifting I think my girlfriend not so subtly introduced me to y'all two months ago and so in the first month I spent my time just working on owning the movement as you talk about stability and flexibility so I could do compound lifts and then about a month ago I started a maps aesthetic I'm absolutely loving it but one thing I've noticed is I've gone from about six to seven hours of sleep a night to about eight to nine hours and I'm also now taking like a 20 minute nap at least once a day and want to know if this is probably just an adjustment period because my body's taken on you know those extra stress and working out or if you guys see this long term is this what happens with weightlifters yeah so I have two questions for you first of all sleeping eight to nine eight hours a night is usually better than six to seven for most people but you're also taking a nap so I need to ask you two other two questions number one are you doing this because you're tired are you finding that you're more fatigued and then number two are you noticing consistent strength gains in maps aesthetic oh yeah so to answer the second question first absolutely I'm putting on you know I'm adding more weight to my lifts it seems like every time I go out those newbie gains you talk about have been great it's really just I feel like my body's been exhausted and so I mean I'm going I feel like I lay down and I fall asleep like that it's great it's just something I'm not used to like I said I went from pretty much not working out at all to now doing maps aesthetic and I'm like eight weeks into I guess weightlifting now and so I feel like it's just my body adjusting to the extra stress and movement what's your caffeine intake look like I pretty much just take pre-workout right before my lift and that's it okay now now before when you were sleeping six to seven hours a night did you feel like you needed more or did you feel like you were fine I think I needed more I just think I I just literally wasn't sleeping as much before probably because I had more of a sedentary lifestyle okay and now now that I'm reading you guys's nutrition guide and I'm going I'm listening to your podcast a lot more I'm I'm starting to take like walks and like every hour at work and stuff like that I feel like I'm moving more and I'm also I'm also now in a calorie deficit if that contributes I know okay well that's contributing yeah and so could the pre-workout yeah definitely so I so here's the thing if you weren't getting stronger I would say it's probably too much I'd have you back off but there's a couple of things you said that makes me think that your body needs the rest and it's good for you one is you're getting stronger right so if you're getting stronger you're usually not overtraining in fact I'd say you're probably not overtraining if you're noticing that you're consistent especially the way you put it every time you work out you seem to be lifting more weight so that's a good thing and then the other thing is that you said before you slept less but you felt like you needed more you just couldn't get better sleep studies show that when people work out especially when they do resistance training they get better deeper you know types of sleep so that the sleep is more recuperative and the body just seems to you know be able to sleep better so this doesn't sound like a bad thing now if your strength stalls or you notice you're weaker or you notice that you sleep eight hours you take a little nap and you're still super exhausted I would say bring the scale scale the volume down by about a third to see and you know that might even still be the case maps aesthetic is still a lot of volume for a first time workout I mean I would have had you start with maps anabolic and then maybe eventually move you to maps aesthetic but the fact that you're getting stronger every single time I think this is probably you're probably okay I would also investigate more of the caffeine intake so if you if you just said he's new to lifting so I'm assuming you weren't taking a pre-workout six months ago so okay and now were you a coffee drinker before at all no okay so you take a guy okay who's never had caffeine probably on some 200 plus milligrams of caffeine that's a lot of caffeine yes and a lot of times when you especially that much caffeine and somebody who's not used to always taking it you could have this you know tons of energy from it and then a hard crash come from it afterwards so I would actually recommend like either one theanine which you are a big advocate of taking that with his pre-workout so a theanine to kind of keep a more even kill and or maybe even replacing the pre-workout with something more like red juice or something out or cordyceps or something along those lines yeah you could try you could definitely mess with those two things but I mean the fact that you're getting stronger is consistently as you are that's a good sign that's the best sign and I can't think of a more objective positive sign that it's working and I actually went through like I go through spells of this too and I forget that I'm in a deficit and I'm actually lowering my calorie intake and wondering why you know towards the end of the night like I'm getting really tired and after my workouts especially and that was definitely one of those things that a factor in that whole equation that you know something that has repeated itself from showed itself for me but definitely the the caffeine thing is a real thing especially if you're not used to it like there is an inevitable crash especially with those types of of caffeine products I would also so what uh can we get your your weight how much do you weigh right now and then what what the calorie intake looks like yeah so I'm 511 I weigh 200 pounds and I'm getting like 1800 to 1900 calories okay yeah and that's a cut from what you were at before okay you you mean you you might you're probably okay um if you're on a cut and you're getting stronger though that's a really good yeah that's the strength part is what's what tells me you're doing okay if you're if you're just got the newbie yeah just the top of that yeah but you're not even you're not gonna this might not always be the case but you could take a newbie and you could over train them they're not gonna get stronger they're gonna be sore they're gonna feel terrible so the fact that you're getting strong now if you stop getting stronger or you start going backwards I would scale the volume down because it might be too much or bump the calories okay hey thanks guys I appreciate all that you do no problem thank you thank you yeah I mean you know I'm a little torn right MAPS Aesthetic is a great workout program but it's probably not the one that I would start with right it's a lot of volume right out of the shoes yeah I would go MAPS Anabolic MAPS Anabolic is a great way to start I mean MAPS Anabolic is a great program period you can go back to it even if you're advanced to get great gains you're just biased because you're on it yeah no no I mean I'm on the cover no I agree we all agree that I mean we it should be addressed right because obviously we always have new audience the way the programs we originally wrote MAPS Anabolic performance and aesthetic to be followed in that order so even though there's exceptions to the rule and yes you can some people can start in their places the thought process when we thought about the amount of volume that is in each one of those programs and the things that we are addressing with each one of those programs the ideal thing for most people is to go anabolic performance and then aesthetic I you know a couple things we didn't get the chance to say so hopefully Andrew listens to this I would also have like three days in a row where I give myself a calorie surplus just to see what happens he might be 1800 calories is pretty low for a 200 pound young man that's lifting five to six days a week I would I'd rather see him somewhere on a cut like 22 to 2300 maybe you know and again these are generic numbers I don't know where his metabolism the metabolism is currently at so I'm just throwing stuff out there but that's a pretty low calorie intake and that could be a big part of it and then again the caffeine he wasn't taking caffeine in it at all and also you take two 300 I'm wondering if you started his workouts like he's never worked out before then and then added the pre-workout like doesn't really drink caffeine like both of those ran on the shoots it's like it would have been interesting to see if he just worked out without any kind of like stimulant yeah or like the red juice that's why I would push him in the direction of trying that out and seeing how he feels with that or messing with theanine or quarter-steps in there I just think that maybe that I'm thinking of the nap right because the sleeping at night that's great if you're getting if you're getting eight eight nine hours of sleep nothing wrong with that there's nothing wrong with that in fact that's I think it's probably really good for him his body's wanting to recover his strength is going up like you're saying the only thing that I would try and figure out or get to the bottom of is the midday nap and the midday nap could be just we're so low of calories or I've all said and went from never taking caffeine to taking you know 300 milligrams of caffeine and it's the crash that he's feeling if he probably trains it early in the morning it sounds like so earlier in the day takes this huge spike by noon or one is feeling tired yeah but I mean here's the deal going leapfrogging a program doesn't get you there any faster too that's something that you I think is important to explain so if maps and apolic is is appropriate for you and the progression is anabolic to performance to aesthetic jumping to aesthetic doesn't mean you get there faster it actually means you get there slower because you started with the program that wasn't the perfect dose or the right dose you know this is for your body this is something that's Katrina right so I mean you guys know obviously off arrow about her situation and just getting back from surgery and stuff like that and she had to reset and I made her start with starter and she's never ran starter before and it was such a mind fuck for her and I kept telling and I'm asking her as she's going she's now in the third week of starter right now I go well what are you seeing are you still getting sorry she goes yeah I know that I mean the workouts that when I'm doing them I feel like they're too easy and too basic but I do get sore from it I said then why why would we go to anabolic yet when you're still seeing these results and she's so antsy to get there I'm like you're seeing progression right now totally there's no reason to do that absolutely look if you like our information you have to head over to mind pump free calm that's where we have all of our free guides and they're very very valuable and they cost nothing and there's a ton of them there mind pump free dot com you can also find all of us on Instagram you can find Adam at mind pump Adam Justin at mind pump Justin see this is the key he didn't go out and bench every day heavy he went out and practiced very often and he benched heavy I don't know once a week and so I practice this and this is the first time in my life that I was able to bench press over 300 pounds I was stuck forever at whatever it was then I started increasing my bench frequency where I was bench pressing three days a week