Good afternoon and welcome to another episode of Informed and Engaged. Knight Foundation is committed to supporting a future for journalism. That means we're committed to leaders who hold the powerful to account, and leaders who are committed to ensure that everyone in their community gets the news and information they need and that there is equitable coverage. Today, we're going to be talking about the role of journalists working together. It wasn't too long ago that journalists competed fiercely against each other, looked for the big scoop, the exclusive. But now increasingly, journalists understand that if they work together in their communities with other journalists, if they listen and engage with their communities about the issues of concern, they're going to have bigger impact. Today, we're going to be talking with with an incredible project in Philadelphia. It's called Resolve Philadelphia or Resolve Philly, as we say in Philadelphia. And today, we're going to be talking about how important it is and what it takes for collaborative project for journalists working collaboratively to succeed. Joining me today is Jean Friedman Brudowski, who is passionate about journalism's vital role in creating a fair and just society. Jean co-founded Resolve Philadelphia in 2018 after taking a leadership role in a solutions journalism network project that focused on reentry. It took on the important challenging issue about mass incarceration. So when Jean co-founded Resolve Philly in 2018, it was with the hope that sustained collaborative solutions journalism will help bring about a more engaged and informed community. Co-founder Cassie Haynes is co-executive director of Resolve Philly. She is a self-described nonjournalist with a background in community organizing, public policy, and strategic planning and execution. Prior to co-founding Resolve Philly with Jean, Cassie served as the deputy executive director of the City of Philadelphia's Office of Community Empowerment and Opportunity, where she directed the policy initiatives impacting Philadelphia's most vulnerable citizens as part of the agency's overall mission to alleviate poverty. And then finally, it is such a pleasure to introduce Roxanne Stafford, who is the managing director of the Knight Lenfest Local News Transformation Fund, a fund formed by Knight Foundation and the Lenfest Institute to strengthen local journalism at scale with a focus on helping news organizations become sustainable and helping ensure that they are delivering equitable coverage. We are so delighted to have Roxanne lead this conversation today. We'll be taking your questions, so please add them to the chat and also please use our hashtag Night Live and put your questions there. And if we can't get to all of them today, we'll keep the Q&A going on Twitter. Hashtag Night Live. Thank you. Please join us. Roxanne. Thank you so much, Jennifer. Thank you, Knight Foundation. I think for many of us, we are wrestling with the fact that we are living, not just through one pandemic, but multiple, as we understand the reckoning that is happening around racism and specifically anti-Black racism. These pandemics, these opportunities have created a neat time period for us to look at how are we evolving, how are we evolving in our personal lives as well as our professional lives. And through this, we are seeing more and more people embracing the importance of interdependence, recognizing that our own abilities are multiplied when we have the opportunity to form communities. And in fact, when we are intentional about collaboration, we have an even better way of approaching and addressing what is happening all over the world. Mutual aid has now become a part of everyday vocabulary. But there are areas, industries, where we're still trying to define what that looks like. And that's why I'm so excited to be able to sit together in this way and explore with you, Gene and Cassie. What does mutual aid look like in journalism? How do we uplift and recognize the value that's inherent in each other? How do we make sure that collaborations and solution journalism lead us to the sustainability that we know that the media and journalism industry is looking for? And also, how are we accountable? Accountable to our communities and accountable to each other? I'm curious as you all step back and think about these multiple pandemics that we are facing. How has this time opened up a new opportunity for you all as you've been able to harness the collaborative solution journalism approach? So, I'll start. I mean, I think to have the best understanding of how we've evolved. I'll just give a real quick history of where we're coming from so that everyone knows a bit of the background on us. So, Rizal Fili really grew out of a project called the Reentry Project, which was funded generously by the Knight Foundation. It was housed within the Solutions Journalism Network. And it was a tremendous project from a pretty simple idea. And the idea was, what if we could get a bunch of newsrooms to work together on one specific topic and do reporting from a solutions-oriented point of view? Do solutions journalism? It was the idea of a great former reporter at the Inquirer named Jean Van Bergen. And thankfully, Knight and S. Jan said, yeah, let's try this. It was an experiment. It was 13 newsrooms working together in what could arguably have been called the most competitive local media market in terms of local media outlets here really feeling like they are in very strong competition with one another in the entire country. And yet, because of the point that journalism was at, this was in 2017, news outlets said, hey, let's give this a try. And it was excellent. I mean, I think we produced over 200 stories, some really effective solutions and engaged reporting. There's a lot of real impact, real tangible and intangible impact that came out of that. So at the end of that project, the newsrooms involved wanted to do it again. And that next year, Resolve Philly was founded by Cassie and I. And the idea was, how could we, we had formed such a great and cohesive cohort of newsrooms wanting to work together. And the idea behind Resolve was, how could we do something more than just make this a vehicle for temporary reporting projects? How could we actually push and work with newsrooms who are our partners to be, in general, more solutions oriented, more collaborative, grounded in the principles of equity and really lifting up community voices? And so that's kind of how our work really began. And that's a really strong, that's a really strong foundation to step into this moment of evolution. And I know you all have been really thinking about that alongside your partners. What has this evolutionary process been like for you all? And what does it look like now? I mean, I think one of the things that was a huge part of how we started this work, both the two of us, and then as we started to grow our staff and as we started to grow our network of partners, both the capital P partners that are part of the collaborative and also our lowercase P partners who work with us and experiment with us across a number of different fields. And so, as we started deepening these relationships, I think a key thing that everybody was showing up ready to do was iterate and to recognize that this is a process and that there's no magic bullet. There's no, excuse me, there's no one way that we're going to fix journalism and that whatever the solutions are, they're going to come from working together and from understanding how we can leverage the resources that we have as an industry, the resources that we have as a community to really pave a path forward. So I think that's a big part of our growth process is just being open to the fact, not open to the fact, but celebrating the fact that we don't know. There's a lot we don't know, right? We're not showing up and saying we have all of the answers. And I think that that's key for really cultivating an environment where you can really invest in rich growth. Yeah, Cassie, I'm wondering if we could just dig a little deeper into that, like this iterative approach showing up without having all the answers. I know for a lot of people, that's a difficult posture to be in, especially for journalists. And I was wondering if you could share a little bit more about how you all have been able to allow people to evolve and step into an iterative process. I think just being in part, it's being really clear about goals and expectations. It's being really clear about what a partner shows up with, how they want to show up. The inquirer shows up differently from some of our smaller news outlets who are a single person shop. And so recognizing everybody, every person, every organization is showing up with value. And when you take time to kind of understand how people want to plug in, where people want to plug in, I mean, that's an investment, right? Like it's not like, oh, it's so easy. Just learn all of these things about your entire, I mean, it's tough. But I think it's really worth it. People want to plug in. They want to be valued. They want to show up and give their gifts. And so by facilitating a space where people can show up and give their gifts and feel successful at what they're doing, people want to be a part of it. People want to invest more in it. Yeah, I love this metaphor of giving gifts. Yeah, Jean. It's just going to happen and say, really sort of practically and tangibly what this looks like for us is entering 2020, we had our flagship work of Broken Philly, which was sort of the second iteration of the reentry project. They'd run from 13 partners to now over 20 newsroom partners. It went from one-year project to now being a five-year commitment on behalf of the newsrooms, the pandemic hit. We were approached by a funder to say, is there a way that you can create a news and information delivery response, essentially, for the most vulnerable communities in Philadelphia? Vulnerable, not just to the disease, but the long-term economic and social fallout. And so what's come from that is our new program called Equally Informed. And really at the heart of it, it's trying to bridge the information divide in Philadelphia and making sure that those who are most vulnerable to COVID and the fallout are getting the information they need and deserve. And that, you know, it links, this is not, we try to not do our work in silos. And I think actually we do a good job of not having, you know, broken Philly over here and then Equally Informed over here and reframe over here, but actually thinking about the ways that it all connects. So with, you know, with Equally Informed, essentially, we have set up a system where we are pushing out information over text message throughout the city and using the awesome local reporting that our newsroom partners are doing, right? And then also pushing out calls for what questions people have around, you know, living and working in the city during a time of COVID and being able to use that to cycle back to the newsrooms and say, here, this is what, these are the questions that people have. These are the things that they're struggling with. Haven't seen an article on this, anyone interested. And there's, you know, there's lots of other ways that we're sort of getting the information out there, including some play space work.  How do we, how are we able to sort of take that structure and then bridge gaps between community and the newsrooms? Yeah, and it sounds like that is part of this gift that keeps on giving. Just to build on what you were saying also before, Cassie, there's the gift in and of a self-emend investment. And I feel like you all recognize that this is more than a resume or what is on a particular news or media org's website about them. It's who they are as people. And that transforms, right, what you all have been able to do during the pandemic where we really do need to see each other as people to do this type of work beyond just what is said in terms of our expertise areas. Gina, I was wondering if you talk a little bit more. You mentioned there's also a play space component. So it sounds like part of the evolution in your collaborative is not just the way in which the established news and media organizations work together. It sounds like there might be some other partners you all are working with now. Yeah, definitely. Actually, Cassie, you're I think would be in a better place to talk about the play space and play space work we're doing. So we're from a little bit of the beginning part of how this kind of came up and how it fits into how we're looking at impact and evaluating our work. But we started very early in this project working with impact evaluation consultant to really structure this project in a way that allows us to answer the really specific question that Independence Public Media Foundation charged us with, which is what's the value of journalism in a crisis response and recovery effort? And so through our work, we're really interested in answering that question. And really interested in what is the impact when you meet people with information where they are in the places and spaces that they occupy on the daily basis? What does that mean in terms of their access to service journalism? Their ability to make decisions based on information that is real and accurate and accessible and easy to navigate, et cetera. So we laid out an engagement strategy that was based on census tracks. We identified the highest priority census tracks based on an index tool created by the social progress imperative. So it assessed a score, a COVID vulnerability score, down to the census track. And so the score was based on a variety of social factors. It wasn't just, at the time, age was the big thing. It wasn't just based on age or health risk factor, but other factors as well. So we looked at those specific places across our community and started thinking about all of the ways in which we could reach these different places through a dispersed strategy. Simultaneously, we were engaged in a conversation with our good friend at the Department of Parks and Rec. He's a good friend of Knight Foundation, Patrick Morgan, formerly of Knight Foundation. And we were scheming, trying to figure out a way to work with Parks and Rec, especially as these conversations were mid-April. We were thinking about, OK, what does it look like to reopen the city? What does it look like for people to occupy public spaces, park spaces, and do so in a way that's safe? And so we decided to partner with them around their Play Streets initiative, which is something that's been going on in Philadelphia for a long time. But with summer camps at closed or at reduced capacity, Play Streets were a big focus of the city this year. Play Streets and Philly are when the end of each of the ends of a block are blocked off between 10 and 3 or 4 p.m. every day. And there's some facilitated programming, some outdoor games. And they've got a ton of awesome stuff happening on Play Streets this year. And it's also a grab-and-go lunch pickup. So there's 302 Play Streets across the city. And we're working with Play Streets in a number of different ways. Our newsrooms are doing pop-up newsrooms at Play Streets. We're actually engaging Play Street captains who are the volunteer grown folks who submit applications each summer to host Play Streets. They are often block captains, people with home child care facilities. And otherwise, folks who are plugged into their block in some way. So we're excited to use the REACH platform to really engage with Play Street captains throughout the month of August with a goal of continuing this engagement. And so we're paying folks for their time. We're pushing out proactive information three times a week. We're asking them to serve a bit as a phone tree to disseminate that information out. And then we'll engage in surveying once a week with them. The idea is really to test this out and see what if we had community info hubs? What if we had community info captains? And what if this was a relationship that really ended up serving the community? The information that we're texting out is information that is largely pulled from reporting that our partners are doing. So it's really what we're looking to develop is really a relationship with these Play Street captains that kind of goes well beyond Play Streets and who knows where. That's really exciting to hear that there are multiple platforms you all are working on. Like the physical spaces to what REACH is having you all do through digital spaces along with the content that's already happening with your partners. The ability to really think about the relationship building is the key around this. And so if we think about what we're experiencing is collective humanity, not just as a moment, but an ongoing movement of how we can understand our interdependence, how we can make sure that we really are more informed and engaged by recognizing these different hotspots. And for those of you who are tuning in and know Philly very well, info hubs are what we do best. And so it's great to hear that there's more ways that we can purify them, especially with these incredible block captains. And we know other communities as well embrace their block captains well. Just building on this notion of moving us into a direction of understanding that interdependence, seeing value and connections everywhere as you all are doing your work. But one word that comes to mind is equity, right? And I know equity is a key value for resolve Philly. It's something that you work with your partners on and they hold dear as well. As we're at this critical time where lots of folks are trying to understand equity, what does equity look like in a collaborative setting? What does equity look like in journalism? So I can give one example of sort of equity in the sense of amongst the newsrooms, because I think when we talk about equity in journalism, there are two spheres of it, right? It is equity amongst media makers and within journalism and realizing the power dynamics that exists among and between different outlets. And then also there's the question of equity and representation, equity and information access that gets to the journalism and community conversation. So in terms of the first bucket, we have, you know, from the very beginning strived and I think to some extent have succeeded to make our collaborative, you know, first re-entry project now broken Philly to make that an equitable space. So I can give, you know, two examples of sort of what that looks like for us internally. One would be within these collaborative reporting projects, there is something called what we refer to as the collaborative pot. It's essentially, you know, part of our budget that is money that is accessible to newsroom partners for projects related to, you know, reporting and events, whatever it is related to the project that they're working on. And this is a fund that, you know, we don't as, you know, resolve CEOs don't decide where that money goes, but proposals are put towards the group and then they discuss and make decisions about where that money goes. And so there is sort of an understanding and it's funny because it's not something that we like put out at the very beginning, but there is an understanding that within that pot of money, it's not going to be divided up equally. If there's 24 newsroom partners, we're not going to take this 70,000 and divide it by 24 and say, okay, you each have this share, but thinking about what are the needs and what are the possibilities? So, for example, you know, several times in the past when the inquire has posted an event, for example, that has something to do with what the reporting project that we're involved in, they have, you know, the inquire has funds to buy some coffee and bagels for the participants who are coming. They very well could put in a request to that collaborative pot to get coffee and bagels and have that covered, but they know they have the funds and so they don't do that. They use their own funds, whereas if a smaller radio outlet is hosting an event, they often do put in money for coffee and bagels or whatever it is because they don't have that. They don't have that money already within their budget. So it's thinking about how do we divide up, how are resources divided in a way that actually where they go to those who need and not necessarily sort of, you know, the same amongst. The second example I'll give is that as part of this IPMF work around COVID news and information response, part of the grant we received, about a quarter of it, went actually is going straight into the newsrooms. You know, we realized that this was a time of incredible economic insecurity for newsrooms. I mean, on top of what was already in a secure environment, part of the way that we structured the grant, there's sort of a public health messaging component too. And so we designed a system where we would basically do advice or sponsored content or underwriting for all of our newsroom partners to push culturally-affirming public health messaging out on their, you know, airwaves, channels, websites, whatever it is, print products. And similarly, instead of saying, OK, you know, there's this much money that's just divided up equally, we actually looked at, OK, which are the organizations that are either, that are a lot of media or community media, they will get a larger portion of the share in part because they are often serving the audience that we are directly trying to reach with this grant. And then other, you know, larger general news outlets are actually going to get less of a share because they have sort of a bigger audience and it's not as, it's not as directly the people that we're trying to reach. So those are two examples of, of the equity question. I'm so glad that that's at the forefront and you all have put in practices that sounds like the news organizations are also deciding along with you all, what does this look like? How is this shaped? And back to how you all have said before, the importance of learning from that, right? Celebrating and learning as you go ahead. I want to spend some time talking a little bit more about the different levels of collaboration, right? That are necessary for equity to happen. We know as you all started to talk about, there is the collaborative nature of how you work with the group of partners in and of itself. There is what the partners are able to do with each other, like around the collaborative pot when they come up with great ideas. There are the partners going back into their own news organizations, big or small, talking to each other and trying to understand how this work needs to grow, right? So it's sustainable and equitable for everyone that it touches. And there's also the larger community in and of itself, right? Whether you call it engagement, right? Or co-design process or whatnot. There's the need to understand that nature of collaborating. And then there's also this notion of you as an individual down to that level, what you need to be ready to be able to be a great collaborator. It isn't something that you wake up and like I can do it automatically. So I was curious as you all think about it again, this evolutionary process you all have been going through with each other, with the larger community, with all these great news and media organizations. How do you all think about these different levels? How do you address them? That's a mighty question there, Roxanne. I think, I mean, at a personal level, at certainly at the individual level, both in terms of the humans who support the work on Resolve's team, as well as the humans who support the work across the collab, professional development is a huge focus. And not like, oh, go take this class to learn how to do this thing. But true kind of recognition of what an individual needs in order to grow and develop. And that's not just access to trainings and courses, right? It's opportunities to show up as yourself to work, to work in an environment that celebrates who you are. I think that is clutch for collaboration. Nobody wants to work with a set of partners with whom they can't be their whole selves around. And I think that that's something, if you sit in, which you have on our partner meetings, you will see like the genuine love and respect and appreciation for one another and for what we as individuals each bring. And that's, I mean, there's no like magic sauce for that. It's, that's time. It's people who want to be there. And you're not always, when you're managing a collaborative, you're not always fortunate to have people who want to be there necessarily. And so I think, as best as possible, going back to what I said before, when people have an opportunity to show up and bring themselves, the desire to collaborate grows exponentially. The desire to learn and to contribute, which is that's collaboration, right? I mean, you're learning together, you're contributing with one another. There has to be a lot of respect there. Just to build on that, are there things that you feel, for those of us that want to continue to evolve into becoming what we need to be in this day and age, right? To, I'm thinking about the late representative, John Lewis right now, right? And how he always talked about, we should have a posture as if great things were to come. And from what the two of you have laid out, it sounds like investing fully in the collaborative approach and process will get us to that place. What are some things for us that are on that road or trying to get on that road that we should keep in mind? That is also a mighty, a mighty question. And I know we're gonna get to audience questions in a second, but I think as much as this is like hard at this moment in time where we're in a crisis situation and it feels like there needs to be an immediate response to everything right now, I think actually patience is a really important one. There is no way that our newsroom partners and our work as a collaborative could be doing the work that we're doing if this was three years ago. It just, it takes time and understanding that, as Cassie said, like investing in people, investing in relationship building, that is the heart of a collaboration. And it's hard because people will come in and out, but if new people are then added to a space where it's so clear that there is deep respect amongst the group and it is where it is an equitable space where people are gonna be heard and valued as their whole selves, then people flip right in like they get that and they show up with their whole selves. And so I think, yeah, just patience and taking a deep breath, even at this moment in time where it feels like we have to do things so quickly because we are under siege. Yeah, well, speaking of patience, I'm gonna be patience and hold my questions because I'm excited to hear what everyone else who has been tuning in has been getting out of our conversation of these weirdy questions that we've been able to dive into. So let's hear what other folks are thinking about. Hi everyone, Jennifer Preston here from Knight Foundation. So we've been gathering questions from the chat and also from Twitter. So please use the hashtag Night Live on Twitter. And if we don't get to your question now, we'll get to it after the show. So one of the questions that we had was, right now we're in a moment of time of reckoning. And so there's lots of energy and lots of strong conversation about how news organizations need to dismantle systemic racism and to address inequity and social injustice. How does one ensure and how is resolve thinking about helping ensure that this focus continues beyond this time? It's a great question and it's a big one. I mean, first of all, just to sort of put out there, we see ourselves as an anti-racist organization. And so from within, we are going to take steps to always be true to that value. And it means sometimes not being silent when either partners and friends are perpetuating racism in the work that they do. I think from kind of a more specific, work-oriented angle, when we think about, for example, the calls to defund the police, right? And so many of our cities trying to reconcile with what that means for them. An idea that we had at resolve is to think about, all right, how can we help the city of Philadelphia, city with a lower KC? Both government, community members, advocates, whoever kind of have the information they need to be able to reconcile this issue and move forward in a positive way. And so an idea that we're working on is making 911 data more accessible. And I'm really understanding what, if we could get, for example, three to six months of 911 calls, like literally the transcripts of them and to be able to understand what are the calls coming in, could they have been responded to with a social worker or with a medical team rather than an actual police officer? And understanding what is the data that's there that we could help find to be able to enable the community to then come to the answer that they need to on this tough issue. There's a lot of interest in the role of the Play Street captains. And we have a question from Karen Magnuson. So would you please help us better understand how Play Street captains get the info into the hands of people who need it? What is their role? So what we're playing around with in August is super informal. So we have an editorial schedule with eight different categories of information that we have very specific impact metrics in. And so one of them, for instance, is civic engagement. And so we have been pushing out information on census participation. The deadline has been extended a few times, different facts of specifically what does it mean for Philadelphians when more people fill out the census? Well, there's a very specific dollar amount that Philadelphia gets over the next 10 years based on filling out the census. So just specific information around the census that goes out via SMS. So you don't need a smartphone, you just need a regular phone that texts messages. So we will push information as an example around the census out. That is information that we will ask as part of the relationship with Play Street captains, them to push out to a certain number of people. And it's through casual conversation, right? Like we're, it's, you know, talk to 10 people on your block about filling out the census. And then we have a set of follow-up questions that we ask about the conversations that they had about, you know, can you confirm if anybody did fill out the census? Did you help anybody? Did you send anybody to Phil? So that we can really have as specific as possible, right? Using this kind of third party captain to get that information, but that's how that works. Great, this is a great question from Jose Coto. How can artists and cultural bears specifically play a role in this work in ways that not only gives them power over their stories, but also the means of production and dissemination? Increasingly, we're seeing artists and journalists come together and storytelling. How has resolve been thinking about this? Well, there's a whole other component of equally informed that we have not touched on and it's surrounding art. So the relationship that we use to have with Parks and Rec is a tripartite relationship with mural arts. And so the mural arts program in Philly is one of a kind, just like really beautiful program. Our city is covered with gorgeous, gorgeous murals in large part recently to the work of the mural arts program. And so we've worked with mural arts program and we've also worked with another initiative. We have an ongoing partnership with Fill the Walls with Hope, which was kind of a gorilla initiative that started at the beginning of the pandemic. And artists from around the city were submitting their walls. They were submitting the art to the People Paper Co-op and they were facilitating this initiative, Fill the Walls. And so they were taking art of local artists, wheat pasting, painting, plastering, all sorts of around the closed buildings, getting permission from store owners who wanted to still have beautiful artwork in their windows to display, even though stores were closed. And so that's how this initiative started. We've partnered with them on all of the signage that's being used for play streets. And so we've used artwork from local artists. We've covered the cost of printing. We've paid the artists. We've compensated the artists to license their work and have an ongoing relationship throughout this initiative. So if you are in Philadelphia, you can kind of look around and you'll see art from artists across the city as yard signs, as posters, at play streets, at food distribution sites across the city featured in our newsletter that'll be distributed to 160,000 households over the summer. So there are a lot of fun ways that we're working with artists, not just the visual artists, but around storytelling too. We're doing content collection and thinking through how we can really elevate the narratives, both visual and written and spoken of folks in our community. I'll just add one quick thing onto that. I think what's been awesome is to see the bringing the art together to be like super useful in a public health way. So for example, the food distribution points are using the yard signs that were drawn by local artists to space people six feet apart because folks at the food distribution points told us that we're having a hard time maintaining social distance. So using the yard signs or printing up little decals that are down on the ground to keep people distant. And in the newsletter that Cassie mentioned, one side is beautiful local art and the other is like a coloring page for kids. Again, by local artists and we're able to include that in a newsletter going out to food distribution points all around the city. Thank you. Now we have a question from journalism professor, Allison Frisch. She wondered, what is the first, what is the most important thing that you would tell students who are interested in doing this type of engaged journalism collaborative work? Let's see, the first thing I would tell students is to understand that journalism as an industry is changing and evolving and is going to continue to change and evolve. And it may be that the J school that you're at, the curriculum has not necessarily caught up with some of the practices in the real world. And so maintaining, as we as journalists are great at doing maintaining a critical view even of the journalism curriculum, right? Like we're taught to be skeptical of everything and everyone that is like how you're supposed to function as a journalist. Also be skeptical of ourselves, be skeptical of the teachings that we've had for the past hundreds of years. Some are great and some of them need to evolve. So just maintain that healthy skepticism and be open to newness. We've had a couple of questions about what is a pop-up newsroom? A bit more granular detail would be helpful. So I think it would be helpful to our guests to hear a little bit more about what it takes or what is a pop-up newsroom? Sort of a fancy name for when journalists come out to a place often with a table and they like hang out and interact with people there. It is without having a specific story idea in their mind, right? Like normally we as journalists, we go to specific places because we are reporting on something specific and we wanna ask a certain set of questions. This is, hey, let's go hang out on this block for a few hours, right? There's kids, there's adults. Let me go and listen to what people wanna talk to me about. Instead of being very directive with the questions, relating to a specific story, it's saying, hey, I'm here, I'm here to answer your questions too. Do you have questions about the news gathering process and what it even looks like? We can talk about that. So it's being in a specific place without necessarily an agenda and there's amazing storytelling and reporting that can come from those type of interactions where people feel less pressured to be answered in something specific and just talking about what's going on in their lives. And then we have another question about what might be the greatest challenge to creating the collaborative and a follow up here, which is really important. Did the focus of the project change as you invited new and other collaborators to join you? I mean, I don't know, greatest challenge in some way, to be honest, if we're talking about anything in the media industry is like, ensuring that there are, that the newsrooms themselves can move forward. I mean, as Sarah Lomex, who I know you guys had on a few weeks ago, always talks about, you can't have a thriving collaborative unless you have thriving newsrooms. And so it's really important that journalists are able to do the work that they do to be able to come together and do it. So that's, I mean, I don't know if it'd be biggest challenge but it's certainly one of the biggest. And as you bring in new collaborators to join you, has that shifted or provided new insights? And I'm thinking that one of the things, of course, we learned from the first project, the reentry project, was how important it was to have a mix of large newsrooms and small community-based outlets. I think, yes, the things change when you bring in new partners, certainly, because if there's new people at the table, the conversations are gonna change. I see that as a plus rather than a minus. Again, things need to evolve, they're gonna continue evolving. So I think bringing new partners in, it just, it makes it more dynamic. Alrighty, this was an absolutely terrific and wonderful conversation. And before we close, Roxanne, I'm hoping that you can tell us a little bit about the Knight Lenfest, Local News Transformation Fund, and what are some of the goals that you're seeking to achieve as the Funds Managing Director? Sure, well, first and foremost, I feel blessed to be in such good company with Gina and Cassie and with the partners that make up Resolve, Philly. We share that same value of understanding that there is innate connection between equity and sustainability, and that that is a practice that requires us to show up as our full selves. It is an iterative practice, and it also requires us to call each other in, instead of always calling each other out, meaning that we're inviting ourselves in to figuring out what does that new future look like? And so what that means for what we're trying to do with the Knight Lenfest Local News Transformation Fund is we are looking at things from that, yes, critical journalism eye, but to the professor's question, we are also recognizing that there's value looking at how to do this work from other disciplines. So as part of our work, in addition to a focus in Philadelphia, we're looking at the larger role of technology and not just what products or services, news organizations should incorporate, but really that mindset of product development that centers, really centers people and their needs. How does that transform a news organization? And so we, through our programs with news catalysts, are helping make sure that product directors and innovators understand, as Jean said earlier, the importance of pop-up and being open to that process and really becoming fellow feeling with each other as neighbors as this evolves. Similarly, we also look at what does it take to be a leader during this day and age, right? Again, building upon the great points Cassie made in terms of it's about seeing gifts in each other, not just resumes. And so part of that work is how we are looking at our table stakes program, which is allowing news leaders and news organizations to identify challenges and by recognizing the gifts that are inherent in newsrooms as well as in the community unwrap them, right? And assemble them to solve these types of challenges so that they can be more sustainable. So what that means is understanding not just how to increase your subscriptions, but really understanding how trust is built, as Martin always says, diversity is trust, right? And to build on that, I like to say equity leads to sustainability, right? And so those are some of the ways in which we think about this work from the Nightland Fest Fund. In terms of the pandemic, we are very fortunate to accompany and be on the journey with Resolve Philly as we did with Independence Public Media Establish a Fund looking at community information needs. And many of the partners that are a part of this process are what Cassie and Jean have talked about, mirroring art, right? Filmmaking, right? Different ways to graphically show what's going on, understanding like the journey one takes on social media and how that connects to news and information and solution-based journalism. So we're excited to continue this journey, but again, as both Jean and Cassie said, it really is about the equity in this work, the understanding that this is iterative and that we have to have grace to recognize the gifts that everybody has. And everyone certainly does have a gift and we are so grateful to work with Cassie and Jean and Roxanne on such an important project in Philadelphia that so many others around the country are looking at for inspiration. Thank you for filling us with inspiration and grace this afternoon. Please join us next week for informed and engaged and use the hashtag tag Night Live to keep this conversation going. Thank you, everyone.