Good afternoon and good morning to everyone on the line with us. I want to welcome you to today's webinar on technology strategies to build and mobilize pro bono networks. This webinar is presented by pro bono net in partnership with LSN TAP and the Northwest Justice Project with funding provided by an LSE TIG grant. So before we begin, I want to go over a few logistical things with you. Sorry, that's not the slide. Here we go. We're using the go to webinar platform today. As attendees, you have a control panel on the right hand side of your screen, like the one shown on the slide. You can minimize or maximize your control panel by clicking on the orange arrow at the top left of the panel. Most people's control panel is set to minimize by default and you'll just see the small toolbar instead. If you need to expand that, just click on the orange arrow to get it back to the size where you can see all of the tools. If you're joining us today by telephone, please make sure to enter your audio ping. If you're using Voight, please make sure that you've selected mic and speakers. And in any case, make sure that you haven't selected one or the other and are using the other. You can switch between the two at any point if you want. We will lose audio briefly, but it shouldn't take more than a minute to make that switch. We have about 70 people registered. Looks like there's about 40 with us at the moment. So all callers have been automatically placed on mute. We do really want to hear your questions and feedback throughout this training, though. To communicate with us during the training, you can type a question at any time into the question log. And that is to be showing on this screen here. And we will pause at the end of each presenter's segment to respond to questions. And we'll either discuss it aloud with the presenter or I will type an answer back to you directly and we may share comments or questions in the question box with all participants if appropriate. This training is being recorded, so we can make it available to you and the field on the LSNTAP website. You will receive an email once this material has been posted and we hope you'll share it with anyone in your network who may be interested. And with that, I think we are ready to get started. Again, today's webinar is Technology Strategies to Build and Mobilize Probono Networks. My name is Mike Bruno-Wald. I'm from ProbonoNet. We are joined by a wonderful panel today, Nancy Anderson, who is the Director of Probono from the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law is joining us to talk about the Election Protection Program. Pat Malone, the Associate Director of the Immigration Advocates Network. Here to talk about the Stand with Immigrants Project. Susan Marks, the Probono Legal Manager at Catholic Charities New York Probono Project is with us to discuss her project that we've actually collaborated on for her Probono Projects website. And Lori Meiler, who is the Director of Probono Legal Services at Atlanta Legal Aid Society is here to talk about their Probono Project as well that we have also collaborated on. And so what we're going to do today is talk about different models from sort of different geographic and different points along the way in terms of development and reach of various programs. So this is, I think, a great panel to give us a broad perspective on the different kinds of technology strategies that you consider adopting for your Probono Program. And before we get started, I just want to note, I did mention I'm a Program Manager with ProbonoNet. ProbonoNet is a national nonprofit founded 20 years ago this year. We worked to bring the power of the law to all by building cutting edge digital tools for advocates, volunteers, and the public, and by strengthening collaboration in the civil justice sector. Since ProbonoNet's beginning, we've worked with legal services programs and state bar associations to develop technology strategies that help them collaborate more effectively and build greater capacity to connect, engage, mobilize, and support Probono attorney. So today's presentation is right in ProbonoNet's wheelhouse, and we're really excited to be part of bringing this to you. So with that, I just want to remind everyone that we will pause for questions and discussion in between each segment. So do please send us questions as the segments are proceeding. But I'm going to go ahead and hand things off to Lori Myler from the Atlanta Legal Aid Society, who's going to talk with us about their Probono project in Metro Atlanta. So Lori, I'm going to hand off presenter to you. Thanks, Mike. I am going to go ahead and share my screen. And also on the phone with me joining from Atlanta Legal Aid is Whitney Stone, who's our volunteer coordinator. So I'm going to let Whitney also introduce herself when she starts to talk about sort of going through our website. I just wanted to make sure that everybody can now see our website. Yes. I'm assuming that folks would let me know if they can't. So great. So Atlanta, okay, fabulous. Atlanta Legal Aid is a five-office, five-county project or organization, LSE organization in Metro Atlanta that has a PBIF Innovation grant from LSE to partly to do some work related to Probono. So we've created Legal Aid Probono, which is the project that I work with, which connects the private attorney to all types of core legal services work that our office handles. Pretty much the full representation case placement is handled by pro bono coordinators in our offices while we work out of my unit on limited scope and brief service large-scale projects and then direct representation projects for clients that are served program-wide. So we have a full scale of pro bono things that we do. Now, historically, pro bono was pretty decentralized at Legal Aid. And so in 2017, we re-branded ourselves and basically went from Atlanta Legal Aid with multiple offices throughout Atlanta to one centralized program. And along with that, we shifted our focus and developed a volunteer website in connection with pro bono net that basically is dedicated just for volunteers. And so it's legalaidprobono.org, and it basically has three core functions. The core functions, as you can see from our site, are to connect volunteers to direct representation cases to our pro bono project or to get tools or trainings to fall into one of those groups. And so that's what our core function of the unit is, and that's the same thing. Our site mirrors that. And so I'm gonna go ahead and turn it over to Whitney who's gonna talk a little bit about how we've incorporated technology into that strategy that I just discussed. Okay, hi, everyone. This is Whitney, and I am the volunteer coordinator here at Atlanta Legal Aid. So I do a lot of our graphic design, marketing, and web design. I work a lot with our technology to kind of encourage volunteers to get involved in our work. So we have used a lot of different technology as part of our pro bono strategy. We're trying to reach more volunteers. Specifically, we're also trying to reach a lot of non-attorney volunteers. And so we are trying to use technology to be able to enhance our ability to do that. So we have a variety of different tools on our website that we're using. Laura's showing right now the About Us page, which just gives more information about who we are, how volunteers can get in contact with us, how they can volunteer, and then we also have a lot of clients who do kind of fall into our page, so places to kind of direct them to the right spot as well. We also have our Neighborhood Offices page, which, because we have five separate offices, five county offices, each office has specific volunteer needs and specific things that they want and volunteers, and so each of them has their own pro bono page that they can use and update on their own so that they can add any special projects and any events that they're doing as far as pro bono goes to their specific page. So that just helps kind of also with volunteers who specifically want to work with one of our specific offices, they can go to this page and kind of learn a little bit more about that office and find volunteer opportunities there. We also have our Tools and Training page. So one of the main goals of our website was to be able to train volunteers to kind of remove a lot of the administrative burden of training volunteers that pro bono coordinators have. So there's a lot of training that we have to give volunteers. So one of the purposes of the site was to connect volunteers with resources so that they could be trained prior to starting volunteering or throughout the process they could find training materials that they need, resources, anything like that. They can kind of get access to that on their own or we can direct them directly to our site. Another strategy that we're using as far as technology goes, is trying to get the word out about our work and about what we do and about our volunteer opportunities. So we send out monthly emails that you can see right now to all of our volunteers and we also do a lot of social media and marketing as well. So that's some of the technology we use to try and encourage our volunteers to get involved in our work and do place cases and opportunities and things like that. We use social media and email as part of our technology and pro bono strategy. So we also have our calendar tool which is one of the most useful tools for us because it allows us to centralize all of our training and events into one location so that volunteers can easily see when there's upcoming clinics, when there's upcoming CLE opportunities, when there's upcoming training, they can see it all in one location and because we have five separate offices, each office has their own specific training that they do and so having it all in a centralized location makes it a lot easier for volunteers to be able to attend training, attend clinics and attend any of our events. And then we also have our cases tool and we use this to be able to place specific cases with volunteers. So this tool allows a volunteer to come and review a case so they can log in and give a little bit more information about it. They can contact someone about it if they're interested. They can see the time commitment and then they can review the case and accept that case. They can also filter based on county. They can see the time commitment or the topic of case so they can kind of filter through that and choose cases that will work best for them and for their schedule. And then we also have our Get Involved page and this page we specifically created because we had so many non-attorneys volunteers who were reaching out to us and so we wanted a place that we could send them without having to explain every single project to every law student that contacted me. It was really, really helpful to be able to have a page where we could just direct them and they could find opportunities related to what kind of volunteer they are. So for example, we have our law student page and so this lists all of our volunteer opportunities for all of our law students. They can click on the little pictures and get more information about those specific projects. Instead of me having to explain every single project that we have or law students, to every law student that contacts me, they can come in here and learn more about the projects and then tell me what projects they're interested in. So I will typically just send if a volunteer reaches out to me I'll just send them directly to the law student page and say which volunteer opportunities interest you and then I can kind of direct them based on that which is just a great way for them to get more information about our volunteer opportunities. We also have our library tool and this tool has a lot of helpful information for all of our volunteers and a lot of our resources. We also have our website training videos so that's another technology. A tool that we've been using is videos. We have videos that explain how to use the website. We also have a bunch of different legal topics so they can come in here and watch these videos and that saves us time as well because they are able to quickly just watch the video on their own instead of us having to explain how to use the website to them as well. So that's a very helpful tool that we use and a helpful technology that we've been using as well. And I think those all of the the various types of technology that Whitney described has been really integrated in our core strategy. So we'd like to be able to allow we want volunteers to get trained. This website allows us to connect them more quickly and easily to the training materials. We want volunteers to be informed about our work. That's what this website is designed to do is to be able to find about the depth and the breadth and scope of the work that we are doing, who we serve. A lot of the features on the website support our core work that we're engaging in in this unit anyway. And so one of the things we wanted to sort of talk about as well is just challenges that we've encountered with our technology strategy just because if you're thinking about putting a site together or launching into new technology it's always good to kind of consider some of what may be the roadblocks. And so one thing that we have found out is that even though we have so much information on here through our pages going to the various pages on the website, this is not going to replace the core functions that we have. This isn't going to replace a telephone. And so there are going to be times when we're still going to have to get in touch with our volunteers to place cases. We posted one here today. The client and I'll clear my filters. But this client needs assistance at mediation with a contractor who did not finish promised work. It would be great if this case, if somebody's looking on the website and they take this case, but it's not necessarily going to be the only strategy we employ. So I think of technology as a supplement to what you're already doing and not necessarily a complete replacement. Whitney and I still spend a lot of time onboarding volunteers independently. There's just going to be folks that are not going to accept the technology as readily as other ones. So I guess my caveat there is technology is only as useful as the users who use it. Not everyone likes technology. Also staying tied to your goal when you have a lot of competing interests can be tough. We were a, when we first started our site, if you notice now on our projects we have 21 projects. We started out with projects for almost everything. And we realized that perhaps volunteers had too many options and we were going too narrow and folks were getting lost. We'd rather connect them to a bigger area of law and then filter them through that to the right opportunity from there. So we worked on sort of trying to capture every potential user out there in the interwebs to sort of saying what are our big selling points that we want to work with and trying to advertise to those. So those are a couple of challenges we've encountered with the technology strategy. And along with that I wanted to go ahead, Whitney and I wanted to make a couple of recommendations for other programs looking to use technology as part of their pro bono projects. One thing would be is really to scope the project well. We knew right from the start that we wanted this three pained homepage to be able really to draw folks in and immediately place them with work. And so we've had to really continue to think through that and work with pro bono net on what that looks like, how we can make sure that we're really being tied to that mission and not lose sight of it and sort of go down the path of appealing to every single user out there. So that's one thing, really scope it well at the beginning. But be flexible because during the process you're going to come into challenges and what you may think would be a great feature doesn't end up actually working out that way for the user. So we had some feedback about the fact we originally did not have a neighborhood offices tab. And folks basically the feedback was I want to know how I can volunteer in my neighborhood office. And so we worked with pro bono net to make sure that that was one of the core functions of the site is to get people connected to volunteer locally. So that was one of the things that we did. So we were flexible there. And then really be mindful of who's going to maintain this site. Who's going to take care of it after it's launched? Who's going to make sure that you're posting cases? Who's going to be placing the cases? Who's going to be adding new users? Or approving new users as users come on to the site? Maintenance does take energy and resources. And because you've invested so much in the site and we really find that it's a great vehicle to showcase our work, we want to make sure that it stays fresh and dynamic. So think about who's going to take ownership over that after you are done. And Whitney, I know you had a couple other tips that you wanted to provide. Yeah, so the one thing I wanted to add was that you just need to know your audience and know the people who are going to be using your technology. So you don't want to spend your time developing technology and creating a website or any other technology for volunteers or users who aren't going to use it because that's not a good use of your time. So you need to find out useful information first before you start developing technology. So through surveys, focus groups, we also use Google analytics. And so for example, our site, only 2% of our users are seniors. And so I'm not going to spend a lot of time developing pages for senior attorneys. We have a page, but I'm not going to spend a lot of time working on this page because I know that there aren't a lot of senior attorneys who are using our site. And we also, for example, Google analytics has kind of told us that 40% of our users are using their devices to access our site. So we want our site to be mobile friendly as well. So that's another important consideration. You just need to kind of know your audience, know how they're going to be using your technology and kind of know who they are so that you don't waste your time developing something that's not going to be useful. So I think we're ready for if there are any questions, Mike. Yes, that was great. Lori and Whitney, thank you. A couple of questions came in. One from Debra Hansen. Did a company create the training videos for the volunteers, the training videos that you have on your site? No, we did all of that in-house. We found that if you have somebody that's pretty good with technology in-house, you can go ahead and develop those. There's some, we've used some free, pretty, I say relatively inexpensive, Whitney can probably comment on the price, technology to do that. And if you find somebody with a good voice that can do voiceovers, basically you can just go ahead and record some information about the site or we put together some presentations and then went ahead and made them into slide shows and recorded them into videos. The videos we really thought were a great way to launch the site and it's also a way to keep volunteers engaged. And so on our social media strategy, Whitney may post on LinkedIn here's how to use our cases tool. Are you looking for a new case? Here's how to use our cases tool. Then maybe, you know, later in the month we may go ahead and have a short video on how to do the library. So it also gives folks an opportunity to see the site and not necessarily and I think that video technology if you're running it in your social media campaign grabs more audience and allows folks to stay longer and engage more. And so it also allows them to see parts of the site if they're not necessarily on their own. They're going to learn about the site through those videos, but we didn't wall ourselves. We have another question from Danielle Ramos. Actually, a couple and I'll skip down to the Marusa one. She asked if you're using Facebook at all. Yes. Yes. And I noticed I think maybe you had a feed on your site. There you go. So it links exactly. We link to it and then on our pro bono news there's a feed to our Facebook or there's a link to our Facebook feed shows up there as well so that folks can scroll through and kind of figure out right now. We have our awards breakfast. So this is a video that wouldn't be made as well. We have our awards breakfast next week and so a lot of that is focused on that right now. And then I see a hand up from Rebecca Pritchett. Are you going to go ahead and unmute, Rebecca? You should be unmuted, Rebecca, if you want to ask a question. Apparently it was an inverting, so that's okay. No worries there. Great. Okay. I'm not seeing any other questions in the question box. Anyone has any other questions? Feel free to pop those in there. I have to give a shout out to Mike. He's really an excellent partner to work with. I think it's great to have folks who are non-techies. I'm an attorney to be able to work with to sort of say here's what my vision is. Tell me how we can execute it, what we can do and what we can't do. And so I think that's another thing that's great to think about when you're looking at project partners who can communicate well with non-legal concepts and translating legal concepts into tech concepts. I really appreciate that. Completely unsolicited shout out I should just say. I really appreciate that. It's been a pleasure to work with an organization that's been so insightful about how to do this. I think this is a great example for the community. Danielle, I'm going to go ahead and unmute you. You said you have more questions and I feel free to fire away. I don't know if you can hear me. Can you hear me? We can. I was just going to say I think this is a really beautiful website and very well executed and I think it incorporates a lot of the ideas that we have going but it's just so nicely organized and it looks so nice. I'm curious how we can use Pro BonoNet to sort of take away some of these ideas like the calendar for instance. Yeah, Danielle, feel free to reach out to me after the session or I'm sure Lori would be happy to talk with you about their experience using our system but yeah, definitely happy to talk with you about possibly adopting this for your program. Where are you from? Portland Legal Aid Services of Oregon. Oh great. Is there a mechanism for volunteers to sign up via the calendar or RSVP through the calendar? Yes, there is. Let's figure out what's a good one to go to Whitney. I don't really have any right now that have the registration set up but I believe and might correct me if I'm wrong but there is a registration function built into the calendar. Is that correct? That's correct, yes. We recently built that as part of a Pro Bono Innovation Fund project with volunteer lawyers Projects of Boston and it allows members who are registered with the site to sign up for specific events and you can define the number of time slots the upper limits if you want to set one for the number of attendees and it has a lot of functionality that you find in some of the commercial products out there but integrates it directly into the calendar tool. And then that would enable other staff to check the calendar to see who is signed up. Yes, if they have admin privileges on the site they would be able to see that, yes. Okay, thank you. I guess I'll follow up about that maybe. Okay, sounds good. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, well actually I think to stay on time we're going to go ahead and move on to the next segment. We saw that there were a couple of other questions in the question box. Lori and Whitney if you're able to respond to those that would be great but I'm going to at this point hand things off to Susan Marks from the Catholic Charities New York Pro Bono Project and she's going to give us an overview of her project in New York. So let me go ahead and hand that off to Susan. There you go, Susan. And you might be muted. Great, do you guys see what I'm seeing? Yes. Perfect. So good afternoon everybody. My name is Susan Marks and I'm the Pro Bono Legal Manager for Catholic Charities New York. And we are we're kind of set up in an interesting way. Some of you may be familiar with Catholic Charities offices throughout the country but we are a huge social services agency and our legal department is actually quite small. It's part of the immigrant refugee services division and we only do immigration related legal work and so our pro bono project is exclusive to immigration related legal work as well. So kind of the overview is that the social services agency has 90 federation agencies and one of those is my agency that I work for, Catholic Charities Community Services and we are the direct service provider of the archdiocese. So we provide all sorts of legal and social services and it's interesting because in our immigration division we have over 40 years of experience helping immigrants reunite with families obtain work authorization we also do quite a bit of removal defense but never before just a couple of years ago did Catholic Charities engage in pro bono work with members of the community who could lend their services to immigrants in need of legal assistance. So we launched in early 2018 and we were funded to be a statewide project which outside of New York City there's quite a lot of need in immigrant communities and New York as a state is quite large lots of people who come to visit in New York City focus on the city as the main place in the state but that's not where a lot of our immigrant communities reside and so the archdiocese of New York actually flows up all the way into the seven counties of the lower and mid Hudson Valley and so a lot of our work that takes place outside of the city is focused there including our pro bono project and we receive referrals in a number of ways and one of those ways you'll see this photo on the homepage of the site this is a photo of one of our community legal clinics so every month we use attorney and non-attorney volunteers to attend a rotating community legal clinic in one of the seven counties of the Hudson Valley so we bounce all around and we will take our staff up but we also use about 30 volunteers for each of these events and we're able to see about 100 people over the course of the day and we do generalized immigration legal screenings and are able to identify people who may have some form of relief through that project and we have a couple of other vehicles through which we identify cases that would then be evaluated to flow into the pro bono project but that is one of the primary ways and I talk about this a little bit later but one of the greatest things about this website is that there were a lot of discreet smaller projects that were taking place at Catholic Charities for the past four to five years so our community legal project is one another is called the immigration court help desk where ten days a month we staff the immigration court to provide similar screenings to individuals in removal proceedings those two projects are wonderful to give people information but there was really a point where the clinic would end and there wasn't necessarily a referral that could be made so if there was an internal capacity there wasn't a next step for that individual but now through the pro bono project we've built this new capacity to place those individual matters with primarily solo and small firm attorneys we also work with large law firm attorneys and retirees so our vision really is to expand capacity in the lower Hudson Valley where it really doesn't exist now and I just give you all of that background to sort of have a lens through which to look at what we're trying to do with this website because the main goal of the website is to be able to really refine our remote supervision so that when we can go beyond the Hudson Valley to beyond parts of New York where we can easily drive to up in the north country at Buffalo and you're all being in the capital region that if we are able to engage pro bono attorneys who live in those communities and want to represent individuals in those communities that we can help facilitate that and we can also help with the mentorship that is required for this type of work because it is so complex so I just wanted to share with you a little bit about you know about that about the vision for the project and sort of where we are we're definitely still young just under two years old and we launched this website in early 2019 so in February of 2019 and it's we primarily use it for volunteer engagement for recruitment of course as legal aid was saying also to really get the word out about our work for it to be a one stop shop about the different types of programs and projects and opportunities that we have available whether it's a single day volunteer opportunity through our community legal clinics or the immigration court help desk or for full case representation and so what I'd like to do today is to walk you guys through the website which was also built in partnership with pro bono net and it's just another example of how you can use their out of the box but highly customizable solution to build a website that is really perfect and tailored to you and to your programs and what you want to do with it so of course we have our homepage that has this slider here this is our pro bono team that you see and then if you scroll down a bit more this is just our first opportunity to speak to our volunteer so we want to tell them why like it starts with you we want to tell them why this platform exists that it's for them then we really designed it in a way to give them the tools that they need to be competent and effective to assist in their in their pro bono representation so different buttons that can take you directly to other spaces within the site you're able also to see new cases that have been posted I actually posted a few new ones this morning you can sign up for our email updates here and then this section right here directs to the Catholic Charities New York blog which is separate from Catholic Charities Community Services but connects us with the larger agency so we wanted to have a space that would connect us with the agency as well so here of course is pretty typical information so information about our pro bono project there's our larger team we talk a little bit about how we are organized here just so people can understand sort of where they are one of my favorite sections actually is our meet the team so we really wanted to show people who we are talk to them about the work that we've done previously how we're engaged in pro bono and then lastly our frequently asked questions so as both Lori and Whitney mentioned there's a lot of person to person interaction and when you're working in the pro bono space so you're doing a lot of phone calls you're doing a lot of networking and we wanted to be able to answer as many questions as we could just from the outset so people can the other thing that's great about this site I'm going to talk to you guys about it and show you in a few minutes but you can create an account and login and have access to all of our trainings that we wanted to make sure to have behind a join wall but most of this information aside from our resources section you can access without joining the site so you can just so anyone can go come to our website and look at the frequently asked questions they can go through some of these other pages our pages about how the program works where we talk about how we're different maybe from other immigration agencies who are placing pro bono cases one of the ways that we believe that we're a little bit distinct is that we really focus on what we call high intensity mentorship so immigration is an incredibly complex area of the law and particularly in today's climate it's really overwhelming and intimidating for somebody who's never done this type of work to become engaged in it for the first time especially if they're doing removal defense work so those are real consequences for the person who you're representing that can be scary and so we wanted people to be able to see you know here are the ways that we're going to support you so we have information about how we find the right case for them a lot of which is actually done sort of on a one to one basis in terms of individual volunteer interviews and me talking to people about what their goals are and what their strengths are but we also because we're part of a big agency have this ability to help in a lot of logistical ways and so though we do a full case placement we really keep eyes on that placement throughout the process we also have a single day volunteer opportunities this information is just written information about the different opportunities we have available but similar to legal aid Atlanta we have a calendar tool that has all of these opportunities so this is the full calendar but if you go back to the events list you can see everything that is available throughout the course of the month so here's our community legal clinic that we do once a month the 10 different days per month of the immigration court help desk when we have live and person trainings we also put those opportunities up here for our pro bono network and we've actually launched an immigration court help center in the lower Hudson valley that does similar work to the pro say asylum workshops that we do through the immigration court help desk so that is all at our events tab that's how you get to that sensor calendar and as they mentioned you are just starting to incorporate the registration feature but I think it's going to be a fantastic way for us to have all of that integrated into one space so that's very exciting and then finally we do also really encourage non lawyer volunteers to get involved with our work either as what we call a case support volunteer so almost a paralegal type person who would work with a pro bono attorney as part of a legal team or we also use those folks who are not lawyers at our community legal clinics at the immigration court help desk those events are supervised by attorneys and so really we use volunteers to do the interviewing part of that phase to really gather information on the front end and so it's great to have non lawyers for those options as well but now we get really to the heart of our project and that's our cases so I'm just going to go to our available cases and the cases tool you'll see is quite similar to what you saw on legal aids website it's definitely built on the same part of this platform and if you go to an individual case you can see that the case facts are laid out for you also a legal assessment what's happened by the time a case gets to this point is that it has been it has gone through both a consultation phase that we can really gather information but then we've also put it through a secondary evaluation and now it's really ready for placement and so we use this cases tool both as sort of a way to share information with the community both people who are members and not so even if you are not a member of the site you can still have access to look through any of these cases and then finally I just want to highlight our resources section so I'm not logged in right now so you'll notice that when I click on to enter the resource library it's like oops no you have to join and that's just because we want to make sure that folks who are getting all of our training information because we have lots of practice templates here we have it's not a brief bank exactly but because we are working with pro bono's who really have never done immigration work before we wanted to have samples and so we've redacted everything that's on here but just to show you what we've done here we have a sample from an actual you know I-130 cover letter which is required to file a family-based petition so for any of our attorney volunteers who are working on a family-based case they can come here they can take a look at what it should look like and then they can feel more comfortable that they actually are doing it right but we also of course want to review everything that they have together so that's that's our site in terms of what really has worked well I mentioned this earlier but having everything in one place is really very powerful because of the evolution of how these different projects have kind of come together underneath our pro bono programming and all of our work is really connected in a meaningful way we can explain how cases come in through our brief services events and are identified and then developed and evaluated and then prepared and packaged for case placement so what we really love is for our volunteers to come in and start with us at one of those single day events and we really encourage that so that they can get to know us a little bit before they move on to taking a case because it is such a tremendous responsibility so I would say you know our technology strategy is definitely similar to legal aids in terms of wanting to focus on reaching a wider audience providing this comprehensive training space which is a really huge draw for our particular volunteer profile which is people who have never done this work before and then just using the site also as a starting point to introduce people to the breadth and depth of what we're offering so we also use email newsletters similar to others and just really try to reach people in a variety of ways and I wanted to talk a little bit about just challenges that we have encountered with technology and with our strategy I mean because our project is so new we actually launched the website concurrently with building a project from scratch so we were really building our workflow in terms of pro bono case placement at the same time as we were working with Mike to build the project which was probably I mean it was a strategic calculation because we're launching a new initiative but as a result some of the workflow capabilities of the website are a little bit different than how we have tweaked our actual workflow in response to issues as they arose and so this is just one example of technology doing a tremendous amount to improve our process to improve data collection, volunteer engagement all of those things but just like Lori said this is not going to replace the core functionality of a pro bono director or manager or volunteer coordinator like Whitney I do an individual conversation and do individual vetting of every single attorney with whom we place a client because the stakes are too high for us not to do that and so there is still that individualized work that goes in but we're delighted to have tools that help make that easier similarly another challenge of course is capacity to keep the website current and updated so it's always really important to sort of think that through and what that is going to look like for you and in terms of recommendations for you guys who are here with us today who are looking to use technology as part of your project I think that at the beginning of any new initiative my advice based on our experience would be to consider a phased implementation that if you're launching a new project really launches the project first and gets its legs under it a little bit but then has sort of a phase two where you are really incorporating technology after you've had time to test sort of your theoretical model and your hypotheticals and really trying to think through that workflow and the needs of your project at a super granular level before applying a technology solution the department in which I work is called Special Projects and the way that we work in Catholic Charities is instead of doing individual traditional one-to-one direct representation we go out to where immigrant communities are and we do that in a variety of ways but one of our sort of main touchstones is really always being able and willing to iterate and adapt and change and that we're not failing if something doesn't go exactly the way we thought it would we're just learning so that we can tweak it and change it and do something a little bit different the next time and I really think that this also applies to your technology tools and solutions and Mike and Pro BonoNet were really fantastic to work with and continue to be fantastic to work with and the fact that our lunch was 10 months ago now there are things that we speak about about tweaking and making different on a pretty frequent basis so I'm happy to be able to share our sites and our projects with you and happy to answer any questions Great, thank you Susan and I again want to add that was unsolicited but definitely appreciate that and it's been the feeling is definitely mutual you've also been a fantastic partner with us working through this and so yeah these kinds of partnerships are extremely valuable and it's great to share it with everybody we did have one quick question I think we really just had time for this one question before we move to the next segment from Paul Ochner what percentage of your available cases were picked up by the website users? That's a great question and it's actually kind of a tough one for me to answer because I really use it as a dual tool there's sort of a three pronged approach which is the newsletter that goes to more than 300 people in our network the website and then also sort of just individual conversation by me and I use them kind of all collectively so in part some of the cases that are on the website are there really to drum up placement opportunities and interests from people at a later time so it might not be that specific case but it is eventually going to be placed regardless of the vehicle through which that happens so I mean in the end it ends up being 100% but I understand that that's the probably the best answer to the question Great Okay well if anybody has any additional questions for Susan please feel free to put those in the question box and I will make sure that those get passed along to her but we're going to go ahead and shift to our next segment and Pat Malone is going to talk with us about the Stand With Immigrants project so Pat I'm going to hand over the screen sharing to you Great Thank you everyone and thank you Mike even though Mike and I are colleagues at Pro BonoNet I'm going to talk about a site that Pro BonoNet did not make so it will give you a different tool and we'll talk about some of the functions and to some extent the differences and what I had to get used to so we're Immigration Advocates Network we are 11 years old part of Pro BonoNet which as Mike mentioned 20 and Ian as we call ourselves was created with national partners we have a network of more than 8,000 individual non-profit members and nearly 3,000 Pro Bono members we don't do any direct services we are our mission is working with partners and using technology to improve access to justice. We have a number of projects out there some of you may be familiar with these the one I'm going to talk about today is Stand with Immigrants some of these are sites that we've created with partners and spun off and we've had some other projects too like Women's Step Forward with the National Domestic Workers Alliance and Opportunidad, a mobile app that we created with LULAC and then some are projects that we hold closely and we work hand in hand with partners throughout our sort of outreach and development and design work. So this is our core site this is our first site and it has a non-profit resource center and a Pro Bono resource center and some features that you may recognize from the sites that we've looked at already a calendar for example and we have a tremendous library with tens of thousands of resources it's more of a clearing house it doesn't have that same kind of selection and selectivity that some of the other presenters are talking about that the resources are not exactly tailored toward Pro Bono's so it's good for practitioners who are already immigration in the immigration field and looking to contribute their time and expertise for Pro Bono cases this also includes a volunteer guide which we updated in the past couple of years to include some volunteer guide or volunteer coordinator contact information because as you all know a lot of times someone will have the interest in working at a local non-profit but it's sometimes hard to reach the right person and to get started. So this site in the past year we've had a little more than 30,000 site visits and sessions and to some extent you might think well this is our Pro Bono resource but a couple of years ago we saw an opportunity with partners to reach a different audience in the wake of the Trump administration's intense enforcement efforts and anti-immigrant rhetoric there was a backlash and not only lawyers wanted to become involved and speak out on behalf of immigrants and work for justice but other folks were interested to interpreters translators social workers, healthcare providers so we saw with our partners an opportunity and a moment to maybe harness this passion and help bring people along in our work and help maybe change some of the conversation and give people a place to find those opportunities to connect with advocates so we launched in around May 2017 the Stand With Immigrants site these are the folks that worked with us and were in conversation with us as we thought about how to respond in this moment in time and we'll talk a little bit about partnerships because you know this was a very intense time in our fields history we had to scramble to respond to changes and policy to understand how to talk about our work and to scale up and actually help people who were being arrested or detained and so there was a lot going on and organizations were pulled in many different directions and there were many efforts and partnerships to create new projects around this time as well so in working with our partners we thought about how we could engage a broader audience and use social media and do targeted trainings and welcome new lawyers and other professionals but we also were looking at how we could bring in people who were outside of our field we decided to work with a nation builder it is a different you know in some ways similar to pro bono net in that it has this sort of customizable and out of the box tools and we were interested in the kind of the campaign features that would help us work more closely with people who signed up who decided to take the pledge and stand with immigrants we would provide them sort of more targeted information engage them through social media channels and through newsletters and alerts we had we built resources and information for educators for translators and interpreters for healthcare providers for mental health professionals and then also general opportunities and calls for volunteers this is contains another iteration of our volunteer guide that's on our pro bono resource center at the core site but it also has in like a separate calls to action separate postings from organizations around the country both national projects such as you know Cara or dilly project for people who are interested in doing detention or border work but also local and regional projects like for example Esperanza in LA was organizing a lot of pro bono's and offering trainings and we might include or feature their project or include their calendar events so that folks who come to the source and come to our site could find opportunities to get trained to learn about the law and basic ways to take action and to follow the news so as I mentioned we were using a different platform and strategy it included these sort of links to social media and there were ways in which we could sort out the pledge takers for communications so while it was a national site we could sort and send an email to New Yorkers you know to alert them to some special training or event and in terms of like how we were able to reach people a lot of that depended on engaging with our partners and having them you know share with us the training opportunities and events and resources that they have created some of it was using social media and I'll talk a little bit about the limits of our success on Facebook and Twitter and we also sent out regular newsletters to the folks who signed up to get involved to stand with immigrants and we offered some webinars we worked with partners to offer webinars tailored for this new audience people who were maybe not had never taken an immigration case and needed to understand the basics or people who were interested in providing other kinds of help and becoming involved in a different way so in terms of some of the successes and challenges you know like how did it go so we found that with partners we had their wealth of knowledge and resources and they were essential really and how we could engage with this audience and one of the challenges was I think around having a shared kind of ownership of the project we our meetings were sometimes kind of you know quiet or people were preoccupied so I think we could have done a better job to think about you know how how do we form these partnerships and what are our expectations and what can people commit you know were we holding regular meetings whether folks had something to say or discuss or not so I think we could have done a better job in sort of defining and supporting our partners in terms of pledge takers that was an interesting approach we do have about 2000 people who signed up to take the pledge and we expected more but in retrospect I don't know if that was realistic because that was an online form and they were going to give their contact information and they were making a commitment that not everybody would be comfortable making so I think we would consider you know approaching that differently or maybe that would just be one level of engagement and that we could have thought a little bit more about site visits because our site visits in the past year were not bad at about 30,000 users that's actually pretty similar to our existing pro bono resource center which you know again is an intense clearing house for experienced lawyers so while it's not as impressive as say our directory which gets you know 700,000 or more visits a year it's still it's still it was doing okay and so I think that maybe we could have defined success differently and thought about ways to engage people who were just coming to visit and we're not ready to take the pledge. For outreach the newsletter was a success insofar as this was a really receptive audience we found something like approaching 40% click rate on the newsletter which is pretty much more than double what we see in other newsletters and publications so we had this small but very engaged audience to work with in the pledge takers and then in terms of social media maybe many of you find like that's a hard nut to crack with a new project or new you know Facebook page that's growing very slowly and you know we wish it would it would take off we wish that we were able to sort of you know catch the attention and interest of more people in social media but that has been a challenge for sure and then in terms of the technology the you know the site does have some good features it's not for us you know we have maybe four very active sites and another couple that we co-managed with partners so for us it was a matter of also you know learning a new tool and it worked very differently and there weren't some of the efficiencies that we have you know when we update the news feed for the immigration advocates network core site it also updates the news feed on some of our other resources so that was a little bit of a limit and a challenge for us in terms of recommendations like what we you know might do or we might think about differently as I mentioned we would work harder to define and support our partnerships I also found that we needed to connect to the right staff so when you're working on social media but you're meeting regularly with program directors you know maybe you need to be connected to the organizations you know communication staff and experts to help develop and grow you know your Facebook following and have them amplify the social media outreach that you're engaging in as well I also think that we should you know as I mentioned reconsider what the ask was so for people who came to the site you know maybe the first thing we ask is not necessarily to you know take the pledge but there might be another way that we engage people or we invite them back or we invite them to share this site with others that might have been a more productive ask for our audience and then finally we have questions around you know what's our exit strategy this is a kind of a campaign and I don't mean in the political sense but in a sort of defined goals defined period of time responding to the moment sense so you know how and whether we wind down this site or whether we have the sort of you know resources and vision and staff to to sustain the site we are also considering like you know what about our mission fit can Ian create and maintain sites for advocates and for immigrants and for volunteers so we are thinking now about like what are the next steps for stand with immigrants and you know how can we take this engaged fierce cadre of folks who signed up to stand with immigrants and sort of move them into the to the next phase and that's about it for me Mike great thanks Pat really appreciate that and I think you're particularly your final point about exit strategy and sustainability is is an important one to think about because you know even though we do pour a lot of time and energy into these technology projects I don't think we ever really think about the fact that they will have a finite existence whether it's because it's a specific issue that we're addressing or simply because our users expectations change or the way that we're engaging our users changes out of necessity over time so and just as important as it is to think about how to maintain the project while it's active also thinking about how do you how do you flex and morph as conditions change so that's a very helpful insight so I'm not seeing any questions currently in the question box I think if folks have any questions they want to pop in there please feel free to do so and I'll pass them along to Pat but we're doing great on time so I want to continue that trend and I think I'll go ahead and hand off to our next segment with Nancy Anderson from the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law and she'll be talking with us about the election protection campaign so Nancy I'm going to hand over the screen to you great and I am going to try and show my screen I am not oh there we go let's see if I can get this oh I don't need to see me there we go so hopefully you are now just seeing one of my screens as opposed to two of my screens although we use technology I am not always the best at using it but I am Nancy Anderson the director of Pro Bono and I am with the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law a national nonprofit organization based in Washington DC with the North Carolina office now and we have a dual mission to fight for civil rights and equal justice for all but to do so while utilizing the pro bono resources of the private bar we have been around for 56 years and unfortunately will probably be around for another 56 but for this discussion one of the main programs of the Lawyers Committee among a variety of work that we do is we are one of the lead organizations for election protection which is the country's largest nonpartisan voter protection coalition which consists of over hundreds of national state and local nonprofit organizations both legal and non legal as well as law firms and individual volunteers it is a year round program protecting the right to vote for individuals but for this discussion I'm going to talk about how we use technology in the build up and the use of volunteers on election day and that consists of let's see if I actually wrote what it does in the next slide there we go on election day it has primarily two things that we use technology for it has national voter hotline which is answered by trained legal volunteers that hotline is active actually throughout the year but on election day we often have over 20 call centers in different locations across the country including at law firms we also have mobile field programs where volunteers are roaming between different polling places and are waiting at election administration office to respond to any problems that are identified through the hotline or through other means we have between two and six thousand volunteers on election day all those partners so you can imagine just how important technology is to sort of manage the flow of volunteers the flow of information and also sort of the next steps and who is taking care of what while it is such a large and somewhat unique program I think there are definitely some takeaways that everyone on this call can have from our use of technology even if it's just the fails that we've had and trying to learn from those so again even though this is somewhat unique I still think it will hopefully be useful to folks so we use technology for four to five primary reasons one is the national center hotline platform the second is their volunteer management system the our vote live which is the tracking the calls and the issues that come in through the whole election protection program the training platforms for all the volunteers and all the levels all the way up including you know leads at call centers captains who are in the field we also use technology for other means so the national hotline platform is we pay a lot of money to use this so it's not like this in particular is an option for a lot of folks but it is great in that it allows routing of calls from across the country the various call centers depending upon the area code of the incoming call and this is relevant and I would love it something like this was created say for responding to natural disasters where there was just one phone number but if you have a two area code and we've chosen those calls to be routed to a call center in DC who are trained on DC law they're only getting those calls so that is just fabulous of course now with cell phones it's a little bit trickier but folks do have the option to reroute themselves this platform allows for a wide range and call volume to five calls probably today to 30,000 on election day or more the other great thing is you can turn off a phone when a volunteer gets up to go to the bathroom I remember in 2004 we didn't know how to do that so like you would have someone poised standing there to take over the phone when someone needed to take a bathroom break and then we also have different phone services that allows us to partner with other national groups and have call centers and other languages including Arabic, Spanish and a variety of Asian languages which is great and in 2020 God help us all we're going to be having texting capabilities so that voters can text us with their questions so another thing actually I guess that we do use technology for is that we do get a lot of voicemails because at times we're past capacity at midnight and so to go to a point I'll make later that there is inexpensive technology out there we use Google to be able to move our voicemails into different Google Gmail boxes so that those voicemails can be listened to and then answered by the various call centers so nothing fancy just good old fashion Gmail accounts and it actually has worked out quite well so the next mechanism through which we use technology is for our volunteer management with two to six thousand volunteers on any election cycle you can imagine it is tremendously difficult to both schedule those volunteers as well as get their training scheduled and this is an area in particular where we have failed many times it is particularly challenging because we have field programs in 30 states in various locations in those states we have call centers and let's say 10 states with multiple call centers in one city and some of those locations for the call centers there's multiple days the call centers are open and so the ability for a volunteer just to look let's say in New York City at the volunteer opportunities and have them show up in a coherent way see what's available and actually sign up for a slot that is available has taken some long term work with different platforms and it doesn't end just there because then the next thing we ask the volunteers to do is to sign up for training we don't want volunteers to have to take the training first and then sign up for shift because there's just a limited number of shifts and we don't want volunteers to take the training and then there's no opportunity for them to volunteer but so once they sign up for a volunteer ship they then have their list of training opportunities which will vary depending upon whether they're at a call center or a field program and then whether it's an in person training a live webinar or a recorded training so lots and lots of moving parts and then on the back end we wanted our partners to be able to download those who are actually volunteering or attending a training at their location either for security reasons or because they to get folks in the building or because they're managing the field program and they need to slot people into different shifts so needless to say this was you know it's a very challenging volunteer management platform and we were incredibly fortunate to partner with We The Action which is a 501 C3 who among many things but one thing they do are is a place that volunteers can go and see what volunteer opportunities are out there and so it was fabulous that they partnered with us on this platform that again was very complicated and for those of you out there I definitely recommend looking at their website and seeing if they may be useful for you for posting your volunteer opportunities I think they are really quite successful in reaching a large number of volunteers across the country so very happy to do an unrequested plug for We The Action but this here is just you know some screenshots to show you you know the variety of shifts that are available the call center the field program the locations and then how volunteers can sign up for training and then these reminders and emails they get once they've signed up for a shift. The third way we use technology is to track all of those phone calls and issues that come in so we've created an online management system where volunteers enter information online regardless from their location it's searchable by location and issue you can limit access depending upon location so that the call centers in DC are only seeing those calls that are coming in from DC and that's useful because we need those folks to monitor them to respond to any bigger issues that maybe other folks aren't seeing and this information is used for a variety of reasons including advocacy litigation but also just to make phone calls to the election administration office to try to fix a problem on election day and this is a dashboard that we used working with Google I believe and so here again was another way of using some free assistance I believe it's Google has a program where their employees can volunteer to help nonprofits on a variety of tasks and we got a couple of folks to help build a dashboard so that folks could scroll and click on Texas and see the number of complaints that are coming in and what not and I know I'm rushing through all this because then I want to get to the highs and lows of using all this technology and then we also use technology and various platforms provide on-demand training and live webinars we have online toolboxes for call centers and programs so that again a call center in DC can have this one link where all of the materials and all of the information that they need for their volunteers is in one place including the state FAQs the voter registration lookup link for that location and what not and then of course last but not least we have our 866 our vote website which has various resources including an interactive state map for individuals and voters to lookup to get information about voting so a lot of platforms for a very large national program but some of the things that we've learned over the 15 years of trying to use technology and some of this will be I think a repetition from what you've heard and some of this everyone already knows but first and foremost I think that we're all learning in the day and age of smartphones and how everything looks so pretty on our phones and so simple to use everyone has really high expectations of technology they expect things to work well to sort of meet everybody's needs but we know that tech costs a lot of money to develop and so when you have that great game on your phone or maybe the apps for your bank that companies have spent millions of dollars to develop this technology or maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars but certainly none of us have that and so there's always this balance of trying to find the low cost or free resources to build the technology that you have or what kind of money do we want to spend and certainly one thing that the Lawyers Committee has learned is that we've often opted for the cheaper route and then we got what we paid for. Now fortunately there are these grants through LSE and partnerships with Pro BonoNet and We The Action that now are giving organizations more options but that is a difficult balance act of trying to figure out how much we should pay to get something that actually works. One of the other challenges for us is that as I was very quickly going through everything our technology needs were actually really pretty complex but at the same time we asked for these platforms to do too much and as a result they sometimes didn't work because we overcompensated and wanted them to do everything. Our big joke internally now is we kept asking for the Porsche or the Lamborghini we should have just gone for the minivan. The Honda minivan is a good sound car and it meets your needs. We don't need the Lamborghini and so that's something else to keep it in mind and really figure out what you need and sort of stick with that and try not to get all the bells and whistles. You will have failures, you'll have hiccups and I have found one of the best things is just to apologize over and over. We had the hotline go down on election day so we had 700 volunteers trying to answer phone calls and for two hours there were new calls. We had challenges with our volunteer management system. Things happen but again if you just try to fix them but also relay how you've tried to fix them I found that definitely helps. If you're building something out it's going to take a lot longer than you expect so test, test, test give yourself time to test, test, test you also will need many many conversations with your tech folks so whether you're working on a pro bono net or someone else and even with the we the action folks we had an amazing number of conversations but sometimes we were saying blue and they were saying red and we couldn't hear that they were saying red or we were saying blue or whatever it was. It was only until like later when the wrong color was up there that we were like oh you were using tech speak. I was using legal speak we missed you know what the other person was trying to say. Let's see I said partnerships can be great and certainly another point is that someone on the staff will be is going to have to be responsible for moving all this development forward. If you don't have someone who takes lead it can just falter and not move as fast as you need it to and of course for any site where you have materials posted you need to constantly keep them up-to-date and so you'll need staff resources for that. So that is my very fast presentation. Sorry I was talking so quickly but I don't know if folks have any questions or not. Thanks Nancy. There was one question here from Kingsley what's the cost for this type of service and I think that probably refers to I think you could speak to any of the platforms that you talked about if you like just to give the audience an idea of what the costs look like for these. Sure so a lot at least the hotline platform is a lot of money and again because we have such a high capacity needs during major election cycles you know it's between $40,000 and $80,000 and it's not just a one-time fee for the hotline we have to pay annual fees. For the We The Action they partnered with us and we contributed and they contributed and I don't know how much they did so I don't know in terms of the cost for that. FYI if you want to post your volunteer opportunities on their site I believe that's free they are anxious to get more folks to post. Interesting I believe that's true. Oh no I was just saying I believe that's true. The art vote live platform we may have spent I have no idea because in all honesty and I apologize that was several years ago but it's interesting because now we're talking about how it's all my analogies it's like the 1985 Honda Civic I don't know why I keep choosing Honda but it's working it's functioning people know how to drive and feel comfortable but it's getting a little conky so we probably will have to do another one of those and those webinar platforms are great but those two cost money it may be I think it also depends upon maybe the number of users but that is not inexpensive either but by far cheaper than all those other platforms but again there are partnerships that you can look into and grants I know to help with the funding or the cost of the technology Excellent and then we have one more question that I think we can throw out to all of our panelists if they'd like to comment it's from Chris Ramirez and the question is I'm on a digital team for a legal aid organization and I have felt that sort of barrier with attorneys the communication barrier what can I do to make communicating with them easier I try not to be too technical and I try to be straightforward but sometimes there's still confusion so kind of crossing that you said Nancy about the tech speak and the legal speak I've run into this too but I'm curious if you'd like to start Nancy and then anybody else would like to share any thoughts on that one of the things that we've tried to work into the training is not just the substantive expertise that they need to have but also you know how to log on to the our vote live how to enter information so some of it is just having to show them the technology over and over and over but I don't have an easy answer I don't know if other folks do so this is Susan or Laurie any thoughts on that yeah this is Susan I love this question I am an attorney so but I'm a non-practicing attorney so I sort of get where they're coming from but it's not usually the wheelhouse of the work that I do on a daily basis and I think for someone in that role the best the best thing that you can do is explain how the technology is going to help the clients because I've found that our legal team our pro bono supervising attorneys like all they care about ever is the clients and the client outcomes and that's okay because that's their job that's what they're supposed to care about and I as a volunteer sort of manager and project manager and meant to be focused on the project and the volunteers and of course somebody in the digital and technology role is definitely meant to focus on how all of this can come together for all of the constituencies that the organization is serving both internally and externally so I think anytime you can tie it to what their own individual goals are and their client outcomes and make them see how it's going to benefit them then that's how you're going to make that sale yeah this is Laurie I also think that anytime that you can sort of bridge the gap with graphic representations of like mock-ups of what you want or or just graphics in general I think that we have found that just data it doesn't necessarily mean like legal or non-legal I think just trying to convey your message and I guess I'm assuming that that's sort of what it is those types of concepts go over with lawyers I think just like they do with everybody if you can break them into more graphic representations or break it down into smaller pieces of information if I'm understanding the question correctly great yeah I think both of those pieces of advice are spot on coming at it from the tech perspective I think that it is I think you hit on a really important point that frequently we can focus too much on the details of what the technology is going to do and we don't do enough to talk about how it fits into the practice and how it's going to as Susan pointed out improve outcomes for clients so if we sort of start from there and work our way backwards we can do a better job of communicating the importance of our digital and technical efforts and help people get better context as far as understanding why they should buy into that great I think we have time for one more question we're a few minutes over but I just wanted to throw out one last question from Joey Gitzig the question is can you discuss web accessibility for various technology uses on virtual platforms accessibility for screen readers about captioning for videos and I think this is a question that's relevant to everybody so any comments from the panelists on that one it's definitely something that we've thought of we just haven't I don't think incorporated it yet just because of the cost mm-hmm yeah and I think since Laurie and Susan are both using the PerbonoNet platform I can speak to that as well it's something that we have worked on at various points when there has been funding for specific projects and we actually just completed a comprehensive review of our statewide website that's a public information website platform on law help but the PerbonoNet platform hasn't been reviewed for a while and so I think that's a continuing challenge because it's very expensive to to get the consultants on board who are needed to do that work not to mention the development work that's necessary to implement the changes good news on that though is that the more that we do this work the closer to the surface it becomes as we think about how do we implement a particular design or how do we implement a particular functionality it's becoming more and more prominent in our thought process about well we need to make sure that that this color scheme is accessible or we need to make sure that this functionality is compatible with screen readers so I think it is something that's definitely on our radar the main challenge is funding and I think funders are starting to become more sensitive to that and we're starting to see more movement on it but I think there's still a long way to go great okay well we have run over I think that's probably fine given the quality of the presentations today I want to thank all of our presenters for sharing their knowledge and expertise on this subject and just showing on the screen is a slide with everyone listed as well as our email addresses so please if you have follow-up questions that you would like to discuss with us about any of the projects that we've talked about today please feel free to reach out to us and I think this is a great example of how we work well in this community is sharing our knowledge and experience to benefit everyone else so thank you to Nancy and Pat Susan, Laurie and Whitney for spending the time to go over their projects with us today really appreciate it and thank you all for attending today there is one more episode of the PBN LSN TAP webinar community training series this year on November 13th we will be doing a presentation on building a rights-based approach to user data privacy and security so if you'd like more information about that upcoming webinar on November 13th please see the LSN TAP.org website and finally SART who actually wasn't able to join us today from LSN TAP I'm sure is happy to get your feedback on this webinar and you will receive a link all attendees will receive a link for a survey so we definitely would value your feedback on this and other episodes in our series this year so thank you all for joining and please enjoy the rest of your day