Thanks, this is actually perfect because I'm going to try to engage some of the ideas in the last two presentations explicitly in my presentation. The title of my presentation is Formalization Policies in Formal Resource Sectors and the re-centralization of power. Really I'm going to speak largely about two case studies but I'm hoping that this might have some broader resonance with other cases. What I really want to look at in this presentation is in a sense a historical understanding of formalization policy through decentralization phases of governance and then into a post-decentralization phase where central governments reassert their power over the formalization process and in a sense takeover from local governments. Obviously the idea of local government means many different things in many different contexts. The cases I'm going to talk about are in Zimbabwe and witness already spoke a little bit about the role of rural district councils. I'm going to try to take that further a little bit more. The other case is in Indonesia where the idea of local government means something entirely different than it means in Zimbabwe. Both these cases are examples where in the 1990s and early 2000s local governments had a role in managing artisanal gold mining or certain kinds of artisanal gold mining. What we've seen in the last five years in the 2006 to 2012 period is that that power no longer exists at least in the case studies I'm going to look at. I want to look at really the framing of what central governments rules are and what local governments rules are and just to situate myself I began working in 2005 with United Nations organizations on small scale mining issues and what was actually remarkable looking at the various years that I've interacted with UN agencies is UN agencies always seem to focus on national scale governance. That's the model of the UN and just to add to Louie's list of formalization initiatives there's another one this year. This year governments from more than 140 countries agree to sign a mercury treaty which is a historic treaty to deal with global mercury pollution. Explicit in that treaty is that national governments must take new measures to formalize the small scale gold mining sector in order to reduce mercury pollution. So are UN agencies missing the point perhaps when we focus so narrowly on the role of national governments? So I want to in this presentation look a little bit about the framing of formalization policy in relation to national interests. What are some of the interests that drive national governments in formalization thinking? Secondly, I want to look at some of these two case studies looking at the effects of re-centralizing power and that one of the questions I asked in field work in particular was in this new phase of re-centralization is becoming decriminalized the possibility for artisanal mining groups and then I want to thirdly look at the extent to which these case studies might contribute to a rethinking of our assumptions. So I'm interested in multiple bodies of literature here obviously there's a lot of literature that questions the sort of technical framing that has become popular in some of the scholarship. Formalization is never a technical issue. It's always a political issue in my view to varying degrees of course. And there's a whole literature on institutions for managing resource sectors. Jesse Rebo is an interesting scholar who's actually published a paper called Re-centralizing while decentralizing and his paper looks at in a sense how central governments subvert the decentralization process even when decentralization is supposedly taking place. Then there's the political ecology literature which really looks at the role of discourse, the idea of scale and how we conceptualize resource struggles. And a lot of the political ecologists nowadays are arguing that we really need to look at subjective scaling in our discourses. So in terms of methods the case studies that I'm going to present draw on interviews in Zimbabwe which is my main area of focus and also in central Kalimantan in Indonesia I looked at riverbed gold panning as well as land based gold mining and looking at ongoing policy shifts. So as I mentioned the 2000 Mercury Treaty is just one example of a long list of formalization initiatives that have bearing on informal mining activities and Ken provided quite a number of other examples. So this is a major sector of importance to national governments and the global community for all kinds of reasons. Estimates suggest 80 to 100 million people are dependent on artisanal gold mining. And of course the populations are diverse. You have women, men, children, all kinds of different organizations, structures of people working in the sector. The question is can national governments be responsive to this diversity? Can local governments be more responsive to this diversity in coming up with effective formalization plans? The scholarship is fragmented in this sector. I think we have to acknowledge that too. And as mentioned in the previous presentations, how we frame formalization objectives if it's in relation to a threat or an illicit problem or a livelihood promotion effort. All these kinds of framings matter a great deal. And in the artisanal mining sector I think it's fair to say that much of the discourse is focused on really negative framings of the problem rather than an effort to try to build livelihoods in mining communities. So we have seen also some emergent discourse critiques that critique this whole language of illicitness and criminality. So in Zimbabwe and Indonesia I think the discourses in the national newspapers, in policy documents, they vary. But I tried to just categorize some of the typologies of formalization narratives. And you have, I mean in Jakarta Post you see articles decrying that small scale mining is causing acne on the landscape. Sometimes these discourses are actually written by consultants to large mining companies. So you have to look carefully who's producing the discourses about small scale mining. But of course small scale mining is causing lots of environmental degradation in Indonesia as it is in Zimbabwe. You have narratives of threat management. So scholars such as Vega who argue that well you know providing a legal status for miners is prerequisite, is a precondition for development. It's necessary so that miners can access technology services and improve their productivity. Then you have narratives that stress the subsistence nature. And rather than saying that this is necessarily a precondition, they're arguing that well we should recognize the legitimacy. So formalization is associated with a kind of legitimization. And then you have as Ken talked about some of the conflict discourses. So here's just a photo to situate an example of this is a World Bank field trip that I went on in 2009. And the World Bank supposedly was taking us to an artisanal mining site. But as you can see this doesn't very much look like an artisanal mining site. It's actually quite an established company with a whole story to it which I'm not going to get into. But the point is that in a lot of the discourse actually a lot of what donor agency says we need to scale up artisanal mining into responsible business like mining. And what I actually noticed which was interesting is that in Zimbabwe that kind of scale up mentality is very much part of the government discourse to say that small scale miners need to become responsible. Whereas Indonesia actually if you look at the laws they actually define community mining in a very limiting way which is in some sense the opposite. Community mining is defined in Indonesian laws in relation to very limited amounts of digging in relation to you know it's actually talked about as a family kind of activity. So there's different resonance with this model. I'm not going to get into all the different reasons for informalization but we have to be aware of these obviously as Ken mentioned there's all kinds of lack of incentives for many miners. So the case study in Zimbabwe is I think interesting for lots of reasons. I mean as witness mentioned an economic crisis in Zimbabwe in the last decade has made livelihoods very difficult and mining has become a huge source of subsistence in rural areas. Some estimates suggest that there's more than a million small scale miners or people dependent on small scale mining in Zimbabwe. The numbers are very difficult to know but what I wanted to start off with in this case study was looking at in Siza district which is located right near Buluweo. And in Siza district is an example of a context where in the 1990s a lot of innovative programs were attempted with donor support from Swedes, German donors, Canadian donors even. And the local rural district council in Siza district was actually empowered by the central government to issue permits to riverbed gold panniers. And some of the studies that have been done and you see some of them cited here indicate that this was a very important and very innovative model. It was really a model that scholars argue in other districts in Zimbabwe and other countries in Africa should emulate not just focusing on central governments but actually saying that rural district councils which are close to the ground supposedly could offer permits. So there are lots of problems with this model and I'm not going to go into all the problems in the lessons learned. There wasn't enough training for rural district council officers it was one of the issues that came up out of interviews. But a positive side local artisanal miners associations were formed and were managing to various degrees were actually managing some of the risks in terms of riverbed panning. That changed in 2006. So in 2006 what I'm arguing is we can understand this operation no illegal mining to be a kind of re-centralization of power. The central government in June of 2006 removed the power of rural district councils to issue permits. Then later that year and actually I was even doing some field work at the time and then shortly after that I asked the rural district councils what their perspective was on this and they didn't even know about this policy shift at the time. They hadn't been consulted. But later that year in 2006 the central government launched a massive police crackdown. More than between 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009 more than 40,000 miners were arrested according to the government for illegal mining and smuggling related offenses. In fact I was back in Zimbabwe earlier this year and got the actual numbers of people still in prison from this phase and more than 9,000 miners are actually people are still in prison for mining or smuggling related offenses. And a number of different central government institutions became involved. It's not just one central government entity. We're talking about police squads, military squads, central intelligence organization. So this is an elaborate re-centralization kind of campaign in some sense and new environmental impact assessment requirements were imposed and stricter penalties were enforced. So I've been trying to study the role of the miners associations through this period and obviously miners associations find it very difficult to advocate for the rights of unlicensed, you know, allegedly illegal miners. Initially the United Nations project that I was working on in up to 2007 was trying to use the environmental threat issue as a rationale for legalizing rather than punishing miners. But it became a kind of problematic just to even talk about mercury pollution because that discourse was being used as the very rationale for policing. So again, I mean the role supposedly of formalization is to look at multiple different scales of responsibility. But as I mentioned at the start, United Nations programs and a lot of development discourses focus really narrowly on the national scale and this is extremely problematic in Zimbabwe where decisions are being made in Harare far away from the mining areas. So one of the issues that became particularly compelling is this issue of the environmental impact assessment. And in a sense this is an example of a formalization requirement that is far beyond the means of miners. Miners stress that, you know, they want to manage the environment more soundly but they need a program of regulation that's simple, easy to understand, not too bureaucratic and appropriate. And this is a cartoon in the Herald which is actually a state newspaper just showing the magnitude of the challenges. This was just showing that this is a million Zimbabwe dollars at the time but it's showing that the miners can't afford the EIS. This I'm not going to describe at all because it's rather too complicated but just to show that there are so many factors that have contributed to central government interest cracking down on miners. It's a very complex political story. So how do central government structures interact with local government structures? Well the reality is that there has been very minimal sort of engagement when it comes to making decisions over licenses. There's all kinds of reasons why rural district councils are arguing actually that they should be more empowered and the big one is the issue that they're so poorly empowered right now with respect to revenues. And this is actually a really important comparison with Indonesia. In Indonesia, local governments receive more than 30% of mining revenues from large-scale mining. In Zimbabwe, the rural district councils are receiving less than 0.01%. So I mean the meaning of local government is completely different in these two countries. So I'll just say some brief things before I conclude about the Indonesia case. Gold miners in Indonesia are blamed for lots of environmental problems for sure. And there's an advocacy also to turn the sector into a more responsible sector. As I mentioned, the idea of local government means something different. There's also an interesting trend in the scholarship right now in Indonesia. And here I reference Obedzinski that he's cautioning that the discourse in 2004 was already pronouncing local governments as failures. But he's actually in a sense questioning this. He's saying decentralization in the forestry sector is being presented as a failure. But he's talking about the role of local governments. And he's saying that they're in a sense being blamed. And so what we've seen in the post-2009 period is central government in Indonesia imposing moratoriums. And this is the case in central Kalimantan where both mining and logging permits have been held up in a national reevaluation process. And this is just to situate a copy of a license in the area of central Kalimantan where I visited where the person who put together this application had to send this to Jakarta and is still waiting for an outcome or was at least at the time. So he was waiting. And it wasn't very positive actually about his ability to get a license. So arguably a lot of the discussion in Kattingan district in central Kalimantan about these issues is now being influenced by a national environmental process. You could argue I'm getting near the end. I will conclude very rapidly. But I think this is a really interesting case where rather in Indonesia right now in central Kalimantan specifically there is a discourse especially with issues, concerns about red and other environmental planning movements to look at seriously land use. But the question is to what degree do areas like this, as you see on the left, this is a mined area. This is a moonscape of a very degraded area where if this is being mined is this causing new environmental degradation or conversely if this is to be a no-go area is banning mining here going to cause more environmental degradation elsewhere. And so that was one of the questions I looked at and this is the last slide I'll show where actually in 2011 what I found in field work was that there had been an escalation of policing very different from the policing in Zimbabwe. But policing and arrests have contributed to livelihood insecurity. There was less gold being produced and some people had actually stopped mining in these police areas and gone into more environmentally unsound river mining practices. So that's been a concern. So just to conclude my point in this presentation that the recent realization of power over formalization processes can create new problems of marginalization. Central governments impact mining communities in different ways. New environmental problems can arise. There's obviously a need as Ken mentioned as well for streamlining formalization requirements and that's a key point. But the final point I wanted to make was that governments might also be well advised to look at policies for supporting people who might not be formalized. There's so much fixation on formalizing sectors when the reality is that not everybody's going to become formalized. So what services are available for people who operate in that sort of gray territory of informality. Thanks.


Lake of the woods taking on Manoban Waban, BSU, the pep band going with them. First set, Gracie Johnson dives to save this ball. Bodies flying everywhere. The Bears get it back over the net and they reset themselves where Chloe Olsen gets a block for the points. Later on in the set, Aspen Thompson, the missile of the spike gets the point. And in the last play of the first set, Greta Moller slaps it down for the win for the Bears. They win sets two and four to complete the win. They've got Ada Borup coming up next. If you enjoyed this segment of Lakeland News, please consider making a tax-deductible contribution to Lakeland PBS.


Hi, I'm Lior and I will talk about how to derive tighter security bounds for Schnorr identification and signature schemes based on a new high-moment for King Lema. This is joint work with Gil Segev. Schnorr's identification and signature schemes were proposed by Schnorr back in 91. They are simple and efficient, but at the same time allow for many generalizations extending their functionality to primitives such as multi signatures, threshold signatures and drink signatures. This makes them an appealing choice of signatures and indeed, they are being widely adopted since the patent on them expired and are currently in the wide use in a variety of applications from cryptographic protocols, messaging applications and blockchains and cryptocurrencies. The security of Schnorr's identification and signature schemes is typically proven via a reduction to the discrete logarithm problem. Namely, it assumes the existence of some successful impersonator against Schnorr's ID scheme or a successful forger against Schnorr's signatures and converts them into an algorithm for computing discrete logarithms, which performs better than it should according to some underlying assumption. This seems natural since the best known attacks against these schemes rely on discrete log computation, but unfortunately the reductions that we have to the discrete log problem are non tight. This is not just a theoretical issue. When setting the parameters of the group, one has to choose between a larger group size, which means the greater deficiency or a smaller group size, which means degraded provable security. So let's see exactly what is the loss in the currently known reductions to the D-log problem and where does it come from? Essentially all reductions from the Schnorr ID and signature schemes to the D-log problem use some variant of the forking lemma introduced by Poinsheval and Stern and later generalized by Bellar and Neven. This is a rewinding based reduction technique that incurs a square root loss seemingly inherently. For example, this reduction technique can be used to convert an impersonator against Schnorr ID scheme, the transient time t and has advantage epsilon, into a D-log algorithm, the transient time roughly t as well, but has success probability, which is roughly epsilon squared. So what does this tell us about the security of the Schnorr ID scheme? Schup's bound on the hardness of the discrete logarithm problem in the generic group model tells us that epsilon prime is at most t prime squared over p, where p is the size of the group. So if we work in a group in which this bound is assumed to hold, such as some elliptic curve groups, the forking lemma implies that the advantage epsilon of the impersonator is at most the square root of t squared over p. This is potentially a much greater bound than the advantage of the best known attack on the Schnorr ID scheme, which is by discrete law computation and succeeds with probability roughly t squared over p. The situation is similar when considering Schnorr signatures. There the forking lemma allows us to convert a forger, the transient time t and has advantage epsilon, into a D-log algorithm, the transient time roughly t and has success probability roughly epsilon squared over q-h, where q-h is the number of random oracle queries issued by the forger. If we work in a group in which the D-log problem is assumed to be as hard as in the generic group model, this implies that epsilon is at most the square root of q-h times t squared over p. Again, this can be much greater than the best known attack via discrete law computation. These gaps between the provable security of Schnorr schemes and the best known attacks against them can be significant. These are just a few examples for different choices of parameters and the concrete gap that they induce between the provable security of Schnorr's ID scheme and the best known attack against it. And these are a few examples for the concrete gap in the case of Schnorr's signatures. As these numbers exemplify, closing the gap between the best possible security of Schnorr ID and signature schemes and the square root bound is not only of theoretical interest, but can also have significant practical implications. It should be mentioned that not all proofs of security for Schnorr schemes go through a standard model reduction to the D-log problem. One option that has been explored is to prove the security of these schemes in idealized models. In the generic group model, Schup proved the tight information theoretic lower bound on the advantage of any generic attacker. And in the algebraic group model, Fuchs-Flauer, Pluvier and Serrer recently proved the tight reduction to the D-log problem. Though tight, the drawback of these two results is that both of the generic group model and the algebraic group model consider highly restricted classes of adversaries. In the standard model, Belare and Dery recently presented a tight reduction from the security of the Schnorr ID scheme not to the D-log problem, but to a new problem which they introduced called the multi-base discrete logarithm problem. The drawback of this approach, of course, is that it assumes the hardness of a newly introduced interactive problem rather than the standard D-log problem. Thus, a pressing question is how inherent is the square root loss when trying to reduce the security of Schnorr schemes to the hardness of the well-studied D-log problem in the standard model? Or in other words, can the square root barrier be circumvented based on the hardness of the D-log problem? In this work, we answered this question in the affirmative by proving Tyler bounds for Schnorr's ID and signature schemes based on the hardness of the D-log problem. First, we refined the assumed hardness of the D-log problem in the standard model by revisiting its generic group hardness and distilling a key aspect of it. Then, we introduced a new proof technique which generalizes the forking lemma to a high moment variant of it and used this new technique and a refined assumption in order to derive Tyler bounds for Schnorr's schemes. For Schnorr's ID scheme, we proved that any impersonator that runs in time t breaks the security of the scheme with probability at most t squared over p raised to the power of two-thirds, which improves upon the previously known bound of t squared over p raised to the power of one-half. Similarly, for Schnorr's signatures, we proved that any forger that runs in time t breaks the security of the scheme with probability at most qh times t squared over p raised to the power of two-thirds, where again qh is the number of random oracle queries issued by the attacker. This improves upon the previously known bound of qh times t squared over p raised to the power of one-half. Finally, though we will not cover this in this talk, our approach can be generalized to apply to any ID or signature scheme which is obtained from a Sigma protocol with special soundness such as the Okamoto ID and signature schemes. The remainder of the talk will be arranged as follows. We'll start by reviewing Schnorr's ID scheme and the existing reductions to the D-LOG problem. Then, we will present our refined assumption and our results in more detail followed by the new high moment forking lemma and finally we'll conclude with some closing remarks. So, let's begin by recalling Schnorr's ID scheme and from this point on we'll focus mainly on this scheme and you can check the paper for the extensions to Schnorr's signatures. So, the setting is that we have a prover p who wants to convince a verifier v that she knows the discrete log of some publicly known group element. We assume some publicly known and fixed group of order p which is generated by some fixed generator g. v gets as input a public key which is a group element and in a non-stack execution p gets as input the secret key x which is the discrete log of this group element with respect to the generator g. Schnorr's protocol proceeds in three rounds. In the first round, known as the commitment, p chooses a uniformly random exponent r from zp and sends g to the r to v. In the second round, known as the challenge, v sends a uniformly random element beta in zp to p. Finally, in the third round, known as the response, p computes beta x plus r and sends it to the verifier who accepts if and only if g raised to the power of gamma is equal to pk raised to the power of beta times alpha. Roughly speaking, the most basic security guarantee that the protocol provides is that no efficient attacker can impersonate p without knowing, so to speak, the secret exponent x and we will formalize this guarantee later on. Actually, the protocol also provides honest verifier zero knowledge which means that security is retained even against impersonators that can passively ifs drop many honest executions of the protocol. Schnorr's signatures are obtained from this protocol via the Fiat-Chemille transform and again, for more detail, you can see the paper. Towards formalizing the security of the protocol, observe that the protocol satisfies the special soundness property. That is, one can extract the secret exponent x from two different accepting transcripts. Concretely, given two accepted transcripts that share the first message alpha but with different challenges beta and beta prime, x is obtained by computing gamma minus gamma prime over beta minus beta prime. The special soundness property can be used to prove that the Schnorr protocol is a proof of knowledge. Given a successful impersonator p star, we can extract from it the secret exponent x. The way this is proven is by employing a proof technique known as the Forking Glimmer. There are several variants of this technique, but in all of them, the general idea is to rewind p star in order to get two accepting transcripts to apply special soundness in order to extract the secret exponent x. Let's take a look at two variants of the Forking Glimmer and how they encounter the square root barrier that we mentioned earlier. The first is due to Belarion Neven, and the idea here is to rewind the impersonator p star exactly once. So the extractor first honestly interacts with p star in order to obtain the first transcript alpha beta gamma. Then it rewinds p star to the point right after the first message alpha, samples a fresh challenge beta prime, sends it to p star and obtains a second transcript alpha beta prime gamma prime. First, know that the extractor runs in roughly the same time as p star. Second, Belarion Neven proved that if p star breaks the security of the scheme with probability epsilon, then the extractor succeeds with probability which is about epsilon squared. The ggm bound for the delog problem implies that the advantage epsilon of p star is bounded by the square root of t squared over p, so we encounter the square root loss compared to the best known attacks. Another variant of the Forking Glimmer was recently proposed by Bruteletal. In this variant, the extractor first runs p star once, and if p star is successful, then the extractor rewinds it repeatedly until it is successful again under a different challenge. If p star was successful in its first invocation, then the extractor will eventually succeed, so the successful probability of the extractor is the same as that of p star, which is epsilon. The running time of the extractor is now unbounded, but it is not hard to see that in expectation it will terminate in time which is roughly t. Now we cannot use Schup's bound for the discrete log problem in the ggm, since it doesn't apply to expected time algorithms. Fortunately, Jager and Tezako recently provided such a bound. Concretely, they proved that in the ggm, an algorithm that transient expected time t prime solves the discrete log problem with probability at most the square root of t prime squared over p. Applying this bound to the extractor of Bruteletal, we again encounter the same square root barrier. Other variants of the Forking Glimmer that we will not cover in this talk also encounter the square root barrier as well. We are now ready to present our refined assumption on the hardness of the d-log problem. Consider an algorithm A for computing discrete logarithms in a cyclic group of order p generated by g. Our assumption is that for any such algorithm A, the probability that it succeeds in computing the discrete log of a uniformly random group element with respect to g is bounded by the expectation of ta squared over p, where ta is a random variable corresponding to the running time of A. We call this assumption the second moment hardness of the d-log problem. A major upside of this assumption is that it only considers the very well-studied d-log problem and doesn't introduce any new problems. Additionally, this assumption holds in the ggm as implied by Schup's original proof and observed by Jager and Tezako. In the paper, we also consider extensions of this assumption to arbitrary relations beyond just the d-log relation and also to higher moments of the adversaries running time potentially beyond the second moment. With this assumption, we can now state our results more accurately. So assume that we work in a group in which the d-log problem is second moment hard. Then, for any impersonator, attacking the schnor identification scheme, the transient time t, her advantage in breaking the security of the scheme is at most t squared over p raised to the power of two-thirds, whereas before, p is the order of the group. For schnor signatures, we obtain a similar bound, but with a multiplicative factor of qh raised to the power of two-thirds, whereas before, qh is the number of random oracle queries issued by the attacker. Just to give you some sense of how much our result improves upon the square root bound, you can find some concrete examples on the slides for the case of schnor's id scheme. So, for example, if the group is of size 256 bits and the attacker runs in time 2 to the 64, our bound is better by a multiplicative factor of roughly 2 to the 21. Here you can find some concrete examples for the improvement we make for schnor signatures. So, for example, if the attacker also makes 2 to the 50 random oracle queries, our bound is better by a factor of roughly 2 to the 13. We can now present our high moment working lemma. So, the lemma does the following. It takes an impersonator pre-star that runs in time t and breaks schnor's id scheme with probability epsilon, and it converts it into an extractor whose goal is to output two valid transcripts with distinct challenges. Moreover, we show that this extractor succeeds with probability roughly epsilon raised to the power of three-halves, and that the second moment of its running time is roughly t squared. Looking ahead, we can then use this extractor to get there with the special soundness property of schnor's protocol to get a discrete log algorithm with similar parameters. Then, our bound for the security of schnor's id scheme will follow from our assumption on the second moment hardness of the delog problem. Before we describe our extractor, note that the existing extraction procedures that we described earlier still encounter the square root barrier even with our second moment hardness assumption. The single rewind approach results in an extractor that has success probability epsilon squared and whose running time's second moment is t squared. The second moment hardness of the discrete log yields the bound of square root of t squared over p. On the other hand, the rewind until success approach yields an extractor that has success probability epsilon and whose running time's second moment is t squared over epsilon. So the second moment hardness of this discrete log again yields the square root bound. The key idea behind our extractor is to carefully choose the number of rewinds so that it optimizes the trade-off between its success probability and the second moment of its running time. So we rewind the impersonator pre-star exactly b times for some predetermined parameter b and the question that remains is how to choose b. What we'll do in the remainder of this talk is to analyze the reduction with b as a parameter and then we'll see what choice of b is warranted by the analysis. First, let us define our extractor more explicitly. The extractor first honestly interacts with p star to obtain a transcript alpha by a gamma. It then checks if this transcript is accepting and if not, it aborts. If the transcript is accepting, our extractor rewinds p star to the point just after the first message alpha b times over and in each rewind it independently samples a fresh challenge beta i to obtain a transcript alpha beta i gamma i. The hope is that one of these rewinds will yield an accepting transcript with a challenge which is different from the first challenge beta. We'll now turn to analyze our extractor starting from the second moment of its running time. The first interaction of our extractor with p star results in an accepting transcript with probability epsilon. So with probability 1 minus epsilon it does not and the extractor aborts after invoking p star just once so its running time is roughly the same as that of p star which is d. If the first interaction with p star does result in an accepting transcript which happens with probability epsilon our extractor runs p star b additional times so its running time in this case is roughly b times t. Overall we obtained that the second moment of our extractor's running time is roughly t squared plus epsilon times b squared times t squared. An immediate observation is that setting b to b less than 1 over square root of epsilon doesn't really make sense. This is because for all values of b up to 1 over square root of epsilon the second moment of the extractor is dominated by the additive term of t squared and obviously the larger we set b the greater the success probability of the extractor will be. So from now on we will assume that b is at least 1 over square root of epsilon and the second moment of our extractor's running time in this case is simplified to roughly epsilon times b squared times t squared. As for the extractor success probability we prove a claim that states that if b is at least 1 over square root of epsilon then this probability is at least epsilon squared times b. Proving this claim is the most technical part of the proof. The main technical difficulty that arises is that conditioned on the randomness of p star the success probability of the extractor is a non-convex function of p star's advantage. This means that standard techniques that are often used in order to prove variance of the forking lemma and which use Jensen's inequality do not apply. Our solution to this difficulty is to bound this conditional probability from below by a carefully chosen function of epsilon arguing that this function is convex and then we can apply Jensen's inequality. I just want to emphasize that this is a highly informal overview of our approach and you can find the full proof in the paper. So now we can put everything together. Using our extractor and the special soundness property of Schnur's protocol we obtain a discrete log algorithm with parameters that are essentially the same as those of the extractor. We then use our assumption on the second moment hardness of the delog problem to argue that epsilon is bounded by b times t squared over p where recall that epsilon is the success probability of the underlying impersonator p star t is p star's running time and little p is the size of the group. Since we wish to minimize the bound on epsilon we can choose b to be as small as possible while still satisfying the condition that b is at least one over square root of epsilon. Indeed, setting b to be exactly one over square root of epsilon gives us the promised bound of t squared over p raised to the power of two thirds. Let's conclude with some closing remarks. To put our results in perspective note that it is the only result until now that breaks the square root barrier based on the hardness of the very well studied discrete logarithm problem in the standard model. Previous results either encounter the square root barrier relied on highly restrictive idealized models or introduced a new interactive problem that goes well beyond the standard delog problem. So to recap, we presented the tighter bounds for Schnur's idea and signature schemes based on the hardness of the delog problem. We did so by considering a refined assumption regarding the second moment hardness of delog. We then presented a new extractor that utilizes this assumption that derived concrete security bounds for Schnur's schemes that break the square root barrier. We mentioned a couple of extensions that you can find in the paper to other identification and signature schemes such as these of Okamoto and also to other relations other than discrete log and to higher moments than the second moment. The main problem that remains open is of course proving optimal security bounds for Schnur's schemes based on the hardness of the delog problem. So that's it and thank you for your attention.


stop and take a deep breath. I am strong and I can weather the storms that come into my life in my own way. I know who I am. I don't need the approval of others who don't understand autism. I am kind and empathic despite what others may say about me. I don't need to justify my own way of life. My path is different, not less. Listen to this again or save for later.


For this example, we're going to be working with this set of data. In this case, our instruction fetch stage takes 200 picoseconds to complete. Our instruction decode stage takes 125 picoseconds. Our execute stage takes 250 picoseconds. Memory is 225 picoseconds. And our writeback stage is 150 picoseconds. So the first thing we probably want to do is find out how long our clock cycles are. To get the clock cycle time, we really just need to look at all five of our stages and see which one is the largest. In this case, that's the execute stage. So our clock cycle time can be 250 picoseconds. Then to get the latency for one instruction, we take however long that clock cycle time is, 250 picoseconds, and we'll multiply by five. So that will give us 1250 picoseconds. That would be the latency for one instruction. If we change our numbers up a little bit, our instruction fetch is 150 picoseconds, instruction decode is 75 picoseconds, and so on. In this case, our clock cycle time is going to be dependent on the memory because the 225 picoseconds is larger than any of the other stages. So our clock cycle time would be 225 picoseconds. The latency then is 225 picoseconds times five, so that's 1125 picoseconds. If we wanted to try to improve one of these processors, then we'd be interested in focusing on that most expensive stage. So in this case, it's the memory stage. In this case, it was the execute stage. The most expensive stage is the one that's slowing the processor down overall because all of these other stages have some amount of slack in them. There's some amount of space at the end of the clock cycle that really isn't being taken advantage of. So if we could improve the execute stage here, then there would be 25 picoseconds worth of slack at the end of the clock cycle that even the memory stage isn't taking advantage of. Then if we sped up the execute stage, that would mean that our memory stage would become the bottleneck and our clock cycle time would be dependent on that stage instead. The second example, if we sped up the memory stage, then our execute stage would be the next slowest, so that one would become the bottleneck instead.


Check it, check it, check it, it's a unique house, it's your boy, E-C-E-O, and I'm here with the official, lovely, Ms. Jamaica. Hey, what's going on? Hey, man, we got a special guest today, man. Hey, I'm gonna be honest with you, you don't need no introduction, man. When it comes to Dallas and what we do, it's the only way we make it through, man. Say, man, my boy Don Chief is in the house, man. Sachi, sachi, thanks, man. Man, you the one that made me start wearing a lot of sachi, man. That same, when you sent that back to me in the text, I said, this the one that had me out there over at North Park acting real bad. Man, I'm glad you're saying it, because a lot of these boys don't need to follow this, they don't follow the suit, too. Oh, no, no, no, I got to show homage, man. That's the whole reason why we, when we did this, we couldn't, we couldn't even do the show and be where we at and not bring the ones who are pinnacles in the city through. So, you know, we just, we basically, we knew that, you know, if we're going to do this, we got to do it all the way right. And so that's what we've been doing. We've been marching the ones through who really, really, who really made us who we are, right? And that's, that's you guys. So just appreciate, I always say that to everybody, the ones who really, you know, that done the work, you know, put that work in, man. So being from, I say, West Dallas, man, that's where I first heard you from. Right. And I was like, man, you know, my cousin, and I hate to say this because everybody always said, well, you might not know Charles Rambo and all my cousins, man. So, yeah, he died. Like, who bought it from over there? No, I know it. But Junior used to come here before he died. Junior Rambo, the dad, the old man, he would come here and check on me and everything, man. Then last time I seen him was at Miami funeral.  Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, but at the end of the day, that's, that's my, my people. Shout out to Charles down there in the hometown. He at home now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. But that's how when I, and when I would go to Bobby's, man, back in the day and in the club, get the jumping. Hey, man, we're Dallas in that thing, man. Deep boy, did you ever go over there? Of course not. How you like I can't be in there? You might have been, were you younger than me?  So you couldn't, we might, we didn't, we didn't have you over there. Mm-mm, mm-mm, mm-mm. No, no, I wouldn't go and know you don't. That's what it was, man. I wouldn't go and know you don't. Man, so, so the music, man, how do you, how do you keep it consistent all these years, bro? I mean, it's really just a part of me. So my music is just my Bible, my therapy, you know? So long as I'm living, I'm gonna keep it consistent. Bro, and it'd be steppin'. Like it ain't no, it ain't no, you don't miss, bro. You know, I got a couple of people that I put in a whole another level when it come to lyrics, like Scarface.  Right, right. Consistent. Nah, but look where I come from. You know, I come from that jungle.  Yeah, yeah. So that's what you get with me. You just get substance. You get a person who done lived a little bit, who done saw some things. Yeah, and it was consistent. Cap of the Boom had kept me something, man. Every time I go through it was something. Facts. I got to get him on this show. Nah, nah, he got to be, you know, because it's a lot of people that, you know, there's pioneers that help, you know, to see, to get to where it's at, to help build the culture that need to be, you know, talked to, you know, Diamond, Cap. You know, all the- That's my guy. All the mom and pops. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You even got to go to Fonky Town, get Greg and Monty Wayne. I mean, Greg shot me and like, they all played a part. They all played a part. And it's going, and it's like, a lot of people overlook, because they don't get caught up in the, you know, the new thing. Yeah. But, you know, if it weren't for the foundation, we wouldn't have enough to build on. That's so true. And I think that's why we, I think that's why we're gonna win, because we do it like that. That's what we're looking for. The visual guys, like, we had what, who was that, Cam God and Ovid Medium, the people who nobody don't even look at, you know what I mean? Bring them to the front. Even Prophecy, when I had him on here, nobody ever interviewed him. I bring the people that I think get overlooked. And then I bring the patriarchs. And I think that's where it's at. No, that's good. That's good. Yeah. That's real good. Yeah. And that's, that's how we roll it. So I've always heard about West Dallas and everybody else make it sound like it's so, so bad. It's even Jamaica's, you know? Yeah. It's just like Old Cliff. They talk about Old Cliff like, oh, it's a bad area.   You know, I mean, if one is the ghetto, so you from Jamaica, so it's just like, you, we might, we heard things about Jamaica. Exactly.  So there was nothing that just like stood out in your mind like that one instant just happened and it's something you did not expect?  You know?  But when you coming from that mud, it's like you're moving to a lot of things. You kind of know and should learn to a lot of things that really should get your attention.  So what it did, it just built character. It gave me moral respect. It gave me, you know, substance, like I said. So now it didn't really, you know, deter me from anything. I jumped out there, even when I saw it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you put a lot of it in your music? Like when you saw it, because you wrote your own music. Yes, yes. And so a lot of the music that you did, it's what happened around you. Thanks, thanks.  Either mine or experiences that's just been around.  Yeah, yeah, in a sense.   Do you remember it? Of course not. No, I don't remember that one. I don't remember that one. I don't remember that one. Of course not. Aw, that's sweet though. Yeah, I knew you was going to ask that question. I'll let you have that. Because you're... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Too like that. That was it. That was it.  He a mama's boy too. But it's something about boys and their moms, cause like my daughter, she's so independent and so, you know, she's not emotional where it comes to. Let's get that from me. Yeah, but a boy, if I'm not feeling well, he'll come to my door, mama, you okay? You need some? It's just something about a boy that they just do for their moms. My mama went, so my mama got two boys. So she roared in the cocaine.  So she wasn't no, it wasn't no baby. Now it was more, she still, she still, she was very strong, her aura, she didn't, it wasn't no, she's not the feminine type. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's not. She's a strong and stern. Oh yeah.  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the way it is. Are you your youngest? Yeah, y'all got a big brother. Oh, okay. I know that, I mean, being from the country, because it ain't where you from, it's really where you at. And I remember when I always tell you about when my dad shot at my mom and I was four and my uncle, my daddy got shot in the same place in the head where my uncle got killed in and my other uncle burnt it up. You know what I'm saying? It was a gambling shack down in East, down there, right up from what y'all living right now. Just country boys, man. So when you see certain things growing up, and then when I came out here and I seen that, it's like the same way we had it, but just a bigger way when I seen West Dallas and South Dallas and Oklahoma, like all the same thing we were doing down there, just, it just a little more of it. You know what I'm saying? And I was never exposed to anything like that. Personally, I just hear, being in Jamaica, I heard of different things that happened in certain areas. So I was aware of certain things, but I've never experienced it. So when you would tell me certain stories, I was like, really? Yeah. My uncle come home and get the gun. I know what he going to do. I was young boy. I know where he could've go back down to that bag. He shot a dude that had whooped him and pretty much he limped the rest of his life. I watched him limp, but my uncle got killed right after that. One guy shot in the head. So when you see these type of things happen, then I came out here, I was over off Malcolm X. I see a thing, I walk in coming from Bobby's, I had my necklace on and money in my pocket, but the other dude that came out, I don't know if it was just a look at the draw, got shot in the head right there and robbed right there. But I walked in and he walked out and he got shot. Like I seen the two dudes got watching. I'm a street cat. So I'm watching the side of the building like, dang man. When it happened, it just like, I mean, we left, but it's like you out. It's late.  It's sad that you think like that once you've seen so many time death like that. Like my uncle, I found him dead. Like I can keep going. We shot at people. I don't know if we killed him, but we heard some people got killed when you young. You know what I mean? And that's just the way life is.  That don't mean you have to grow up and be. No, you evolve. Right. And that's what I want our listeners to know is that don't always think that you have to be like the person that you're around that maybe influencing you in a bad way. You can evolve from that and become better than that. That's what's up. I mean, like I said, these microphones, to be honest, which like he said earlier, it's really therapeutic, people listening. And I think that's something that I hold me in on every time like I know that it could help somebody what we say, you know? Right, right, right. Cause they listening at your music. I listen at your music. Like I said, consistently cause your music you can put in and ride to it and you ain't gotta cut it off. You ride to the whole thing. Now you ain't got to skip through to try to find a good song. Now I'm being real, bro. I know cause I love music, you know what I mean? And that's, you know, even more so. Don't get me wrong. I liked the Pooke and Loochie thing. I wrote to it, but then as you evolved, it was some, the street thing that educated you and it made you move a certain way. You know, I heard about you over there with the Bentley in the projects. Yeah, I would hear about things like that. And I'd be hustling.  So it'd be like, okay.  Right, right, right. You know, so that's real talk. You know what I'm saying? Nah, man, you know, at the end of the day, I come from the everywhere. You had to be who you said you are. I mean, you older than me. Oh yeah, for sure. Like at the end of the day, you gotta check out. Yeah.  We some, just everything that come. We very unique. Oh, for sure. You know, like in, you know, shoot, I knew it was kind of a battle for me anyway because West Dallas always kind of been shunned upon. You know, we the smallest, you know, but yet the rawest. The rawest.   Yeah. So I just went against the grain with everything. I didn't claim no games. I wanted, you know, I was more just like, it's on me.     Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?  You know, he was right up, right, right down two, three, four houses, right up the field and we seeing Daniel Kev that, you know, his little, his partner be chest boxing with me and my brother and hit me in the stomach, but we watching his cousin on the box. It was show. So that was. That's motivation. Motivation just from West Dallas people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We looking at like, man, we seeing one of ours out here. So, you know, it was just, it was just something that stuck with me. I couldn't speak for nobody else. No, no, that's good. That's good stuff. Yeah, I took it and I was like, shoot, I want to be that cat. No, no, that's real. I want to be one of them guys. Yeah. I hear you. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I hear you mentioned about your mom, but did you have your father in your life? No, no, he, you know, he got caught up living his life and he was locked up, but his mother and his little sister did what he should have did. But I knew he would, but no, he don't know his son. Oh, did you have a father figure, like a male figure that you looked up to? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was, no, no, I didn't look up to no male figure in a sense like that, but I had a male figure around, you know? But we did things and we had boys club. So I was in the sport. So you always had a male figure around that was teaching and, you know, showing authority to somebody who we had to respect. So with that being said, it just, you know, that built character in itself for us, you know, having respect for another man or a person who older than you. See, that's the reason why I asked that question because I've met so many women who would say, I'm mother and father to this boy. And I don't believe that. I always believe that you need a man to teach you how to be a man. A woman can't teach a boy. Right. That's why I was asking, did you have a male figure? Because to turn out, manly, you need a male figure.   So that just become a natural reflex.  So it's just like, we just out here trying to learn how to be young men turning into grown men. It is such a dysfunction in our culture sometimes. And the reason I say that is because even though you say you don't have a dad, but say you do have a dad and the mom and dad fighting every week and arguing and then they get a divorce ripped out apart. Now they arguing about who going to keep the kid. And then this is a whole another level of, okay, we tripping over here the same way they tripping because the disconnect is there, but now it's toxic. So it can go either way. And I think a lot of it go because of who we are and where we come from a lot of times because of the oppression a lot of time that have been placed in our ancestors. I really think that that takes a toll now to this day. That was not anything pretty much done for us to say, okay, we're going to get some therapy on the fact of what happened and all the things that every other culture gets, the help in hand, we don't get it.  He not going to look at, he going to put that black guy at the lowest he can. It wasn't designed for us. That's right. You know, like, and that's one thing that I've come to groups with. I'm not finna be out here with them people fight. No.  I'm not either. Because you got to accept that they'll never look at us as equal. It don't make sense to do it. Why would they? Now don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong.  You know, you're exactly right. They so far ahead of how they done segregated just the black people, the American black people anyway. I mean, so me, I don't really get caught up into the shenanigans. I'm just like, Hey, what I see are my people and everybody I'm with, we have to learn that game. Exactly. And learn how to play that game. They will. And when we learn how to play that game, we'll maintain it. And we just got to teach our people how to be good at the game that they playing. Cause we too, the game we play, it costs us time, life, you know, this and that. So we got to learn how to play that game and feed it to all ours.  All the way. And, and over here in America.   Yeah. Ain't no reparations. You can forget about all that. You have the southern nigga and the northern nigga. They'll never think the same. We don't. And that's something that happens a lot. That was another reason I started this platform because I feel like the people on the East coast never will give us how I just do. And when I put this together, when I think about breakfast club and all those people swaying all that, they'll never understand what we got going in the South. So we have to, we have to do it for ourself. And we got talent down here like yourself and other people that get totally ignored and will never be respected lyrically for the way that they treat others up there. So I will never ever bow down to that system. I'm a big Pimp C fan as you already know. He's so taxing everything is taxing. I'm not trying to hear. I love my people. And it's just Texas is more or less like the South. Like our culture, we go think different than how they think up there because they ain't have to get it. They wouldn't raise, they upbringing one like that. They thought we, they say we ride horses. Have you seen the horses? They definitely, my cousin thought that in California, they like, they don't have sidewalks.  No, but it's stereotype everywhere because before I came here, when I was moving here, you know, friends who said, oh yeah, you're going to see them cowboys walking around with them cowboy hats and they don't have cars and all of that. It's just that people here are thinking that everybody in Jamaica have dreads and smoke weed. And it's not like that. It's just a stereotype that people have of different people from different areas. Well, I can tell you right now, I mean, I represent this.  And I love my people. And I'm going to put it in their face every time. It don't matter if I'm talking, if I'm when I'm at Jazzy Jeff, whoever. Nigga, I'm from Texas, man. And it'd be going down like that. And I'm real fly about it, too. You know what I'm saying? For my people and where I'm from, because if you don't, if you don't respect you, who gonna respect you? Thanks. So you know already. And I never will be one of those guys that I like Jazzy, but I'd never rocked to that kind of music. I'm just being honest with you, I like him. No, we resonated with Pauk, I get it. But I'm just saying, I hear him now, but I like him, but it ain't gonna never be compared to no PMC tell me something good. Never in my life will I make that lie on this platform. So that, I mean, I'll never be able to do that because of where we at and what I heard. See, when I hear you, like I said, I don't know. One thing I always wanted to know is how you pick your beats, man, and how that process is cause you be picking the right damn beats on every song, dawg. I mean, with that, it's more or less. You know, Pauk couldn't pick his beats like that. See, I mean, I go out feeling so it's like, that's pretty much how I go and pick my production. So, you know, and I'm into soul. I got an older soul, so I like a lot of things that's kind of musical, something that you can feel. I like something that a person go, put it like this, I like it when you can just jam the beat and you just literally just like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. And you don't even need to wear the words, just compliment, just the icing on the cake. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you right.  I do, you know. And you rock with it. Yeah, I just know what's good for me. So if I'm your van suede, then you go rock my way. Oh, really, man? Like I said, so what made you start saying Versace like that?  That's, it was straight consistently Versace. I mean, as you can see, it's just more or less like me just being an entertainer and knowing that I was a trendset of people, you know, they caught on the things that I did.  I always just wanted to stick out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like now it's cool to be like each other. Me, when we back then, we was wanting to be different.   So people didn't like tease you back then when, you know, you was trying to stick out. I mean, maybe they did. But it didn't bother you. No, cause okay, I knew I was funny looking as a kid, but my dad had told me I was pretty boy Floyd when I was two or three years old. That's it. It stuck to my head. You couldn't even tell me I was ugly. It wasn't going. But that, now we didn't have no connection, but when he did, he, you know, he called me pretty boy Floyd. Every letter he wrote, hey pretty boy Floyd.   And it was just something that stuck with me to where I like, you know, I had confidence at an early age, people call it cocky. You know, I know my aura will intimidate a weak person. Now I know when I come in the room, I treat myself like I'm something. I know I like, because I know I am. You didn't, and I knew that at an early age.   That's gonna be a lot of confidence. So it's like, I was good at everything. I played court, I would chubby and everything, but I'm the quarterback. Oh, you played football? I played all the sports, I'm playing the projects. We boxing, we swimming, we, you know, but I was good at everything. So with that being said, that dad was already confidence, you know, I can read, I knew how to win the teacher wants to ask the kid to read, I can put the words together better. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm having another cat, he's stumbling. Comprehension, you know, you just, it was more or less like, you know, shoot, I wasn't even, that confidence was busting loose at early, I didn't do it until as I got older.  You know, I've been in this, this kind of way for a while because people followed me at a young age, you know, people, you know, like me at it. When I did things, I was like, you know, so it was like, I knew how to get attention and handle it at the same time. Do you have any kids? I got a little girl, she's 10. She's 10, is she like you? She, I'm, I'm building that confidence, you know, cause she a Leo. So she naturally. Oh, what's her birthday? Oh, here we go. July 30th. July 30th. That's my brother's birthday. Yeah, so she, she, so. We, we Leo's. Okay, I'm a burgo, you know, but I'm a double side, but yeah, yeah. So I know she got that line in the center. So, yeah, yeah, she, yeah, she a natural. Does she rap? She can do it all. She can do it all. Yeah, she can do it all.  No, I mean, she know, she got me wrapped around her hands. I mean, she know how it burns. Mine too.  Oh yeah, that's what's up. You know, so it's like. That's crazy. Yeah, it's just, the only daughter you got, the only kids you got. The only kid. Yeah, yeah. Him and Puga, Leroy got the same thing going on. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's my little homie. I know it, but he got, he just got a daughter. That's crazy.  Oh, really? So, you know, I never gave a honey a chance like that to even, like no female ain't even gave me that kind of feeling, music gave. Wow. So I never would get, I wouldn't even give a honey a chance. No, I wouldn't, no, but I'm good as gold.  Yeah. But you know, I never, that wasn't, it wasn't even, nothing that I ever thought about even doing. Well, the times when I would definitely like, I look back at times on things that happened in the music in your career, when Birdman came down here that time. Right. I remember that, and I'm gonna be honest with you, I was excited about it, but I really wasn't, even like when you came back, I was more excited about your music, more that came back with it after that, like the way you dealt with that. You know what I'm saying for is, at first I was like, it's just a situation, cause I heard him at the radio station talking, you know, everybody heard everything. Then when it didn't happen, I was like, he said, this dude said one thing, but it didn't happen that way. Cause a lot of times people just be talking, I done dealt with stuff like that. While I done been out of town, talking to different, you've seen me with Steve Madden, you, you, you talk to a lot of men boost it.  It ain't really, we just talking.  That's it. And so when I seen when you came back, I'm already had money. Man, I love that song. So I still listen to that song, even before we started to build you. Cause it's just something of resilience when I think about that, bro. Nah, I mean, and he wasn't, you know, in his conversation, let me know it wasn't nothing, but I wasn't easily impressed by nothing at that time. But I mean, I never really been easily impressed because I got it, I got it good.   Yeah, yeah. What's happening? Yeah. What you gonna do, you know?  Already. We ain't gonna say nothing about it.  I'm a goddamn, he make it like it's legit. And I'm gonna eat off of it. Already. And he respected it because by the time we did get together, somebody had pulled his coat tail and we're like, nah, you don't do that with him. Already. Nah, he ain't now one of them little niggas. You can't look home with him. No, at all.  That was my city ran out with it. That oughta showed him like, nah, nigga, he ain't said nothing. That's just the people talking about he signing, congratulating because the city was more awesome. Finally, man.  We finna get this shot. And always finna turn up. Woo-thee, woo-thee, woo-thee. So it wasn't me, it was him and the motherfucking people.  But that's how you do it. I don't really expect nothing less. It was cool. I wasn't tripping.  They go out to feel it regardless cause as long as I'm alive and willing out of jail, I'ma give them hell. So it's like, it's cool. You know, if it didn't happen now, we go, we go, we'll, you know, I'ma stay outside. We go bump into each other again. That's the way it'd be. Like even on us, you know how I am with guests, be like, cause they don't know me. Nobody don't know me like that. Like a lot of cats. And they'd be like, oh yeah, oh yeah. I'ma come and then some niggas won't. I've done things like people hugging people. I say, you know what?   Right. When a nigga hustles like nigga, I got it. I'm not one of those niggas that ain't got it. I got it. I just decided to do something nigga. But at the end of the day, I still show respect to him. And I say, you know what? One day we'll meet again. You know what I'm saying? No. I like to hustle, man. No, thanks. I mean, that's the only way I got our hustle for it. Nobody didn't give me no. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so, see, you're a hustler, so you respect, I understand a lot of these people in position ain't hustlers. Exactly.  No, not at all. So when I'm coming with my vibe and my energy, it's a little bit too much for them because they ain't no hustlers. It was given to them now in the way that it was given to them.  You know, not a lot of time is a hustle, but... Every time. My hustle made me a different kind of character. You know, it forced me to have to be a certain kind of way. Yeah. You know, and if a person's not a hustler, they won't understand it. And everything people don't understand, they don't like... 100%, man. That's good stuff. You know what I'm saying? A lot of people get intimidated real easy, too.  No, they didn't understand me back then. You know, they were like, man, how he from where's that? Like, I didn't know how much... Like, now that would play the big part, man, that nigga from where the dollar, man.  I agree.  Look at him. He got all this. We can't let him do nothing like that. So it was more like, we'll let the roll, we'll let DSR, we'll let... Check out Maline, we'll let Ricky Bobby, we'll let all in, but we can't let that big chief cat cause he got the streets. And you gotta understand back then, we was the boogie era. So I'm fouted for being a little bit ahead of my time and that doesn't happen to a lot of lids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And I'm one of those who just had to be caught up in the twist of it. But what's good about me is that I started at an early age and I'm aged like fine wine and it doesn't came back around on me. What a circle. Like by default because, you know, them youngsters is the one who, you know, kinda took the torch and took it from the boogie movement to now, you know, may rest in peace.  Yeah, yeah. Now the world looking down is for worth as a street city and at the end of the day in hip hop, you gotta be certified by the streets before you can ever eat. Already. That's true. We weren't never certified.  You know, now they for real. Yeah. That was for worth for real. Everybody been known that we for real, but the face is all been friendlier. You know, it's been more boogie music. You know, now it ain't never been no raw person. You know, now it's a raw person, but the cold part about it. He the face. He ain't even heard a talk about it no more. So. But it does happen sometimes. Like Nip said, look how much love they showed him afterwards. Now, but LA already. They used to that. Yeah. Now we talking about Dallas for a word. Dallas for a word. We wasn't. We wasn't embraced to the world as that, that they see it like now them boys. Now they didn't care. They just looked at us. They didn't respect the audiences or the grind here now. They respected.  Yeah.  Not saying that the streets is what is, it just got to be, it got to be stamped. Yeah. Yeah. Before any city can jump. Yeah. Yeah. If the streets don't cold, if you ain't got the street resume, the culture of the streets ain't talk show to the world. Nobody in the world go look at you just as they look at you. So do you feel like with this being, with that being said, it's a, it's a, it's a spot where we can basically now you'll start seeing artists develop faster and more. We at the table. Yeah. Now they picking boy, you better not get hot down here.  They got to get you. Oh, they go try to come get you in because now we got the attention. We got local. We got championship. You got to stand in 0607, 08, 9, 10, 11, 12. I didn't have no pro foot, my cowboy was siren. We just had, we just had what we just had with this yesterday with a, what's his name? Joc Taylor. Joc Taylor was here yesterday. You know Joc?  It wasn't no other cat living up, being the fake looking like a rapper, looking like an entertainer from like how the Memphis, how Ross Nim looked like, like now, so it's like, we just, you know, we were just a little bit behind, but now we had the tape. We had the tape. We had the tape, but now, and you know, it's gonna be a whole lot easier for those who take it serious. Yeah, it's gonna be a whole lot easier. To make some music. Oh, cause everybody looking at us. We talking about taking it serious, who do you see now upcoming that you see them as taking it serious, that you see that they can go? I mean, Being in a business as long as you have a normal, I'm a hard critic. Oh, that's good. I know that. Yeah, I'm a hard critic. No, but that's good. So whoever you say, I'm gonna take it as that's the first. I mean, so I got, I got some, I got some cats that I deal with. I got a couple cats that I'm doing some projects with, you know, but at the end of the day, we got, I don't speak, the work gotta speak for itself. If you gotta ask me, then. Bro, you talking about some, I just had a guy to get in my DM say, I want to be on that show. I'm one of the best artists is I'm like, if you the best artist, you know, I tell you ain't gotta tell nobody you the best artist, the city gonna, somebody gonna tell me you the best artist.  You know, if I didn't heard about you, if I gotta ask about you, then I don't know about you. That's real. That's real. So growing up, who was the person when you first start rapping that told you you gon' go? That they saw that potential in you? I'm a grandmother. Was your grandmother? That's what's up. Yeah, yeah. Grandma gon' tell you too. Girl, I love grandmothers, boy.  My grandma hard on me, man. She made me go back in that bathtub a few times. Man, I'ma tell you what's crazy. She didn't play with me.  I was like, you cool, grand. She was like, yeah, I'm good. I was just thinking about you.  You just keep on doing what you gon' make. And you know, I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Grantee was the first one, you know, who let me know. And it was ironic cause my cousin, she died from an angiorealism too and I had just gave her one of my first CDs and I was still in high school. And she was like, you keep on looking, and she died ironically, but you know, they gave me that, yeah, they let me know that. So it ain't nothing really to deter me. No, no, as you can see, I'm still knee deep in it. That's what's up. It ain't about the money. It sure ain't about the money, cause I'm going to be honest with you. I seen the grind, man. It's dude, Clout was like, Corey was like, man, we couldn't keep up with him. We couldn't produce fast enough, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, that dude had his own thing going, man. He's like, we'll try to do something, but I couldn't. But it wasn't fair to him, that's what he told me. Like he, before I was, I mean, cause I was rapping before C. Yeah, I know. And then, you know, we got together. C turned me on to my car, man. Jamie, it was a step brother. So Corey, yeah, we were the first, he was like, bro, man, you getting all this money, chief, man. You got to get your ride, bro. You got to start getting your fly ride. I got to pee on it. I'm like, man, I'm going to get some ride. I just got cash, man. Like, you know, I was like, man, I got somebody. You don't have to worry about it. Pay your money, you don't got to sign nothing. Cause you know, I'm getting money, but I'm young. I don't know how to spend it. That's it. That's it.   So I can't put, can't keep putting everything in her name. So, you know, he gave him a car, man. And we introducing me and Jamie. We turned the city upside down. Man.  No, no, I was only, I was asking him a lot of questions. The first, we did two interviews. We had a recant one, but, but because Bishop died, you know, but the thing I asked him in that first, and I never forget, I said, how do you feel about Leo and being a white guy and culture, vulture and all that? He answered it good too. He, he a boy from, he come from a cold cliff and that was his background. And he was like, I'm just going, I'm doing what I love, you know, and, and been genuine. Since so many jewels through here, since he came through here, my, my, this whole thing, I say a lot of it is because he called me just while ago. He just going to call me. Can you do the AT&T guy? Can you do it? I'm like, yeah, cause I'm an engineer. I can do, yeah, send them on through. I'm going to talk that talk. I'm going to, I'm going to turn up a different way, you know, because that's what we do. We, we deal with, you know, if you this way, when I see you, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to blend in, you know? And so, and, and plus I came from the streets, but I just evolved. People don't. And we don't evolve in some room. Yeah. I said, asking me to be the chief from 0607. Then I don't need to be talking to you player. Already. No, I can't be that cat. No. Quit asking about him. Yeah, he gone. Been gone. And ain't nothing you can do about it either, cause you can't get him back. No. I know cause I'm looking back at mine. He ain't coming back. I can't even be that young new. No. So I wouldn't even try. So it's like those who stuck there, we leave them stuck there.  Already. That's it. Yeah. Like I said, with all those, man, it's a lot of e-greedies, man. It's a lot of volumes out there. And it's a lot of work. Just work, man. And, you know, I do this when I first started, for years I did it just so my kids, if something ever happened, they would have a place they could go and check me out. I would always do certain things because of that. Cause I know. And so I believe in that. You know what I mean? I told my partner the one got the place in LA. I was like, look, man, he older cat. I'm like, you gotta, you gotta do something. If something happened to your son young, man, if something happened to you, you gotta have some visuals, something he can go and look at you. He can draw from that. A lot of people don't think like that, chief. Right. A lot of them, they're too busy selfish. They not thinking about the next generation. And we gotta think on that level. Big old facts. Yeah. A lot of people don't. I mean, you know, hopefully eventually they will. Yeah. Cause they didn't have this technology, man.  I was 24. And don't have nothing but a few pictures. You know what I mean? But we have an advantage now that we don't have to leave them like that. Exactly. Now, me and my, me and my dad, oh, so I got a little girl, but I'm the only child on my daddy side. Correct. No, I'm the only grand kid. Wow. We're just six of us. So they gonna have something for you though. See, that's the... But listen, I don't got no cousins or nothing. You don't have nobody. Just here. No, it's just in me and my daddy. My daddy, daddy from Mississippi. Wow. With the LA. So I ain't never seen him. He ain't never seen him. So me and him, it's just like, he just shot me out and it just really, just me and him on that one. Yeah. You know, like, but we ain't...  That's why, you know, I guess, you know, I'm okay with what I know I've been doing for mine. Oh, you did good. You know, so it's like, I know she, you know, she looking at me. She gonna always see. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause this stuff ain't going nowhere and I know that. Nah, nah. So that's what I think people be sleeping on. What you got for her? I know you, she waiting, she braced up right there. Knowing the things you know right now, from the business side, the music side, all of that, if you could go back and tell you your 15 year old self, one thing, just to make himself better at an earlier age, what would it be? Ah, don't talk too quick.   It's personal. I'm eating sleep, breathing this. So, you know, I didn't, I didn't, it ain't nothing no girl, nobody could do, like music would, music would stress me out. No, music would stress me out. You know what I'm saying? But it makes you happy too. Like I would get emotional about music. I'm emotionally detached from everything else. You know what I'm saying? Like you can't eat, I'm cool. But when that music got involved, man, I would throw it away.  You know what I'm saying? And you know, I would let people know that I knew that they were full of it off the top when this is the entertainment game. It's not the real game. And I always thought people should be real with me because I was keeping it real. You still keeping it real. But I had to kind of, it took me a while to get over that. Like to be able to get past like, man, this ain't about how real you are. Man, people gonna only deal with you for what they, what you can bring to the table.  Oh, everybody named mama was willing to do whatever I say. So it was like, you know, I just end on the music side. Like I would just let them know that they booed. I would talk a deal.  Like even though it probably would be an unseen, unridden read, unridden rule. Like, gee, you don't have to talk on that. Now you took my money, nigga, play me. Real talk. But, but that was just, you know, that was just, I come from the streets, it's blood on that money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they thinking, you know, nah, I'm not the average young kid that I'ma just, no. I can tell you. And you've grown from that. Well, I was the same way. Like when I first was selling clothes for 15 years ago, when me and Pow Wilde did that deal and we made that expensive taste, that was his brand. And we was, I bought my clothes from him and it was a good amount of clothes. We spent three to five grand with him. But then six months later, we go back to Vegas and he, I'm not doing it no more. I said, bro, you can't, you can't do that. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know, once you do something or you come out with a brand, but in the industry it's different, bro. They move different. Like you can do that in the industry. That's what they do. I decided I'm not selling it no more. I'm over here with the famous group. But Krista told me that's his wife, he right. You know what I mean? Like I'm really telling him like that's in the streets, you couldn't, you couldn't do that. You see what I'm saying? It's a different code, man. Yeah, now it's the entertainment game. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I realized.  It's nothing authentic. Real talk. It's nothing authentic.  Yo, your fans. Your fans. All of it, nah, it ain't authentic. Nah, that's why they make you sign contracts. No, that's true. Because it ain't authentic. It ain't authentic.  For you, for me. How did you and Jim Jones link up? And I know Jim Jones. You see him on the wall. Me and my wife, we talked to him a lot. Yeah, that was through my god, James McMillan. I had an entertainment lawyer who I was dealing with back there. He from New York. He one of the main guys right now. Yeah, he got YB Cardi. He got all the YB men cast. He got him signed to him. But, you know, it was through him.  I already had it.  He be on that, you know, he fly, you know. So I was like, man, he like, you know, I can get Jim on there.  So, you know, I like Jim's man. Jim is up. Shout out to Jim Jones, Jim Bull. My partner's up there in New York. I rock with some cast. Nah, these boys, like, come on, man. These boys, like, that was New York and Dallas. Yeah. Nobody did that. I tried to make it happen to somebody. And you know who you is? You bagged down on me. I had Jada Kiss and all of them in the shoot. I know people, man. I don't know people from music. I know people from business. So it's a totally different ball game for me, but I can make a phone call and say, let's do this. And they gonna be like, yeah, I rock with you because I've been supporting their clothing brand for 10 years, eight years. T.I. been selling the coup ever since 08. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, you gonna see him a hundred times on the wall with me because, hell, I've been spending a lot of money, man. So it's just the same. It's just it flipped on me. I used to be in the streets. Now I'm pushing this cotton, man. You know what I'm saying? That's the way I'm putting that pressure on them. You know, you gotta know how to swap it up, man. People don't, man. People don't know how to swap it up, you know? I definitely just appreciate you, man. Is this, you got to do that top three? I got one more question before that. How do you feel about the evolution of the music industry coming from tapes to CDs now? Everything's on streaming. Yeah, streaming. How do you feel and how easy was it for you to adjust to all of those changes? That's a good question. Oh, it ain't, it ain't been, man. I'm still adjusting, man. As you can see, I haven't been, I've been, you know, growing, I've been growing for the last four and a half years because, you know, I kind of lost the, the know-how to make money out for my music. I haven't transitioned to the social media world yet because I'm too busy living in the real world. I like it. You know, I've been living out for my government now. Everybody living off their user name. So, you know, I had been living out big, my 80s name for a long time before everybody else, they just called up. You know, I've been big chief.  He went, he, Kayung got put up and I've been living as big chief since I graduated and that was, you know, a long period of time. And that's so crazy that you said that because whatever. I know your question next. She has me this. I don't know. Because when I'm researching, doing research on anybody who's sitting here, artists and so forth, I can find the first thing pop up is their government name and, you know, their date of birth and all of that. And I'm searching you and I'm like, all I'm seeing is Don Chief, big chief Lucas. I'm like, okay, so what is his real name? I'm like, how old is he? I'm searching, searching, searching. I'm like, I can't find all of this information. But on anybody else, it's like, I can find like that easy. That mean he ain't been rocking with it like that. Hold on. How? I mean, what you mean? How can I not find all of this information on you? Like, super easy.  Now I live outside, not on the phone.  What I want you to see. What you want me to see.   You dig? But at the end of the day. That's what's up. I see where you come from too. That's real, you know, cause it's just keeping everything where it's supposed to be. And I, and I still ain't adjusted. I'm just now. Like, okay, I think I got it. I got it. That's the reason I became active in November.  You know, I told, that's what I told Mr. Pookie the other day. I said, you know what?   It's free. So if you want to take it there, you can say, hey, I'm Mr. Pookie. Everybody can't do that.  You, and there's money. That's accumulated funds behind that now. It's just, you got to know how to articulate it. You got to know how to get to it.  That's what I'm saying. So, you know, you have a name but your name can only weigh so much what you're going to do. You got to be creative. You got to be artistic.  You get a team of people or a person around you who can help you do that. So you can utilize your name and to make money off of your name because everybody, the best jewel you have is knowing who you are and what you're capable of but still knowing what you need. And if you know that you're not capable of what you need to do to make money, you surround yourself with the people that you can trust first of all, because that's the main thing, having people that you can trust because not everybody you can trust. Have that person around you to help you get what you need because you're not that person. You know what I mean? So you can always achieve it. Just like you said, you're now getting up to date with, you know, social media and all of that. I love where I'm not up to date with everything. My kids can do it that easy. But what I love about social media is how transparent everybody has become. Meaning like, I don't have to personally know you but then I can feel like I know you through social media because you open up certain doors. You don't have to tell your whole business but you let people in on certain things about your life. I mean, you know, your home or in your car, just what you're thinking. And they feel like, man, I feel like that, he cool. Right, right, right. Not just because back in the days it was like, ooh, I like Slim Thug. But then when I meet him and he's in the office or he's this or he's that, then I'm like, oh, I don't like him.  But I think she made him at a bad time. So you gotta understand. We was at a bad time. You gotta understand what I'm saying. So you just streaked the speaking from an entertainment side. Yeah. Man, you gotta understand, you got some people who, you got six, nine, probably like high heels but if you catch them offside of that camera he probably talk like a little men's skin and all kinds of stuff. So it's like, sometimes people give you just what they want. Right. So you might fall in love with the persona and the real deal Holyfield may not be the totally opposite of the persona. So it's like, you gotta, the person gotta know how they're using that site. You know what I mean? So with me it's strictly for business. It'll never be personal. I seen you at a car show and you was, I don't know if that was your mom. It was like eight people with you. This is an old nine, old nine. This was, and you walk through, it was a bunch of people there, everybody were there. You know how they be at the car show. And I said, man, it's just the way you carry yourself. I'll check. I was like, man, that dude makes some good music, man. I knew then you were special, far as the music go, entertainment go. You could sit in any crowd and see a lot of people don't know how to enter that room. Don't know how to stand on that stage. But I know that I got money on big chief or done chief, whoever's standing in there, I know you're gonna be able to hold your own for Texas. I'm being real. I look at all that, bro. Even back then I'm like, oh yeah. Cause I have to stand in those places, you know what I mean?   I talk that talk when it comes down to what I do. Like you're your artist. And so when I say that, when I say you can accumulate funds, I look at people like plies and all these people, man. They do what they do because of who they are. See, you special.  Because it's who you are. And people know from listening to all those volumes and doing it, we already know. It's just okay whenever you ready, we ready. That's the way I feel about it. No, no, no. You know what I'm saying? No, no. Nah, it's perfect timing. I seen that one you put out yesterday, that gangsta group, gangsta group. Yeah, that's nice, babe. I like that one. That one just come out. I like them kids on that too. I say kids, I'm old, man. Nah, they kids, they younger than mine after you. Yeah, but they trying to get to it. Yeah, they movin', so at the end of the day, I'm cool with, you know, what I look at myself, I'm just a vessel. I'm the bridge, you know?  I know I'm the only one that can connect it. There ain't no pookie, no loochie, no tommy, no tug, no none of them, cause they not me. Yeah, yeah. That's what you gotta know there.  Like I know, I check out, and I know how my resume stainless, you know? I ain't perfect, but I'm the perfect me. That's it, and self-awareness is everything, ain't it? Big ol' face. Nah, big ol' face, so I know, I know I gotta do it, and if it don't be done, it'll never be done, and, you know, I'm just gonna bridge the gap. Yeah, yeah, well, if there's anything I can do on this platform, let me know.  Big ol' face, I got a couple projects anyway, that I wanna bring, catch that little JJ through, you know, I wanna, you know, because I got, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You feel me where I'm coming? So when we push them through, because we growing numbers every day, and it's gonna go, because I'm gonna be consistent, and I'm gonna put our good, go look at, you see some of the visuals I put out? I don't be on the phone. I know it, but I didn't even send him none, either.  Yo, you gotta send me some, you know? I'm gonna send you some.  You ain't gonna search for it. So if he said it, you gonna watch it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna send it, I'm gonna send it, so you can just see it, the visuals are nice, man, and we're trying to make it to where, when you bring it out of project, you wanna, you know, the masses to see it, it's gonna float and go through where you want it to go. You know what I mean?  Like I said, that guy, Jock Taylor, he Dallas Cowboys from 97 Journalism. And who else, who else there? Oh, just Shannon Briggs, people who are gonna put their eyes on here.  This platform is where you wanna be. So check it out, man. Big Cheap, one more. Why didn't you know you're top three? That's what I'm for to do. Okay, go ahead. You see how you did me? She jerked me back. Top three artists all the time, man. Dead or live. Pop. Any genre, right? Pop. Pop, that's one. Number one, you know. I like pop, too. That's why I'm wanting to make one. I like Titi P. Yeah, I like Titi P, too.  I ain't never had one of it, but I'm an old man. I'm an old cat brother.  Yeah, Titi P was so player.  Wow, that's heavy. I like it. Now, when you got all the dudes, aw, man, I don't like that nigga. I don't like that nigga. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.  He did his thing.  Who's that last one? Number three. Uh, I mean, pop, Pimp gone. So he got, you know, he got him in there. That's my guy right there, baby, man, whatever everybody. That's all I need right there. That's right. Man, I try to tell these cats he listening. He got an ear. Now, no, why you turning your face up like that? He got an ear.  Educate him. I ain't going to ever say it back. He's more or less Pimp gave you the entertainer. His voice, we both got two distinct with voice. You ain't going to never hear nobody say it like this. That's what we were talking about. You know what I mean? So you ain't going, Didn't I say it? In the delivery. You got to understand that I like cockiness.   In myself. Yeah. He told the life so I can resonate with him. You know what I'm saying? Like a New Yorker probably won't be able to resonate with me. He don't know what you done went through and how you got through it. No, but I know, you know, but no, no. Now Pimp the one. I can promise you that. But Poc was the, you know, he the pinnacle to me because Poc hand young, old girls, boy.  But you, that's what's his music.  Everything. That's true. Yeah. No, no, no. He had the self rocking with him. Be at all. No, we didn't, we weren't on Biggie. No, we wouldn't. We wouldn't. I was a Tupac fan. I wasn't.  As much as Biggie was a descendant from Jamaica. I ain't know that. Of course. Yeah. I ain't know that. Everybody knows that. Oh yeah. Mom, I seen the movie. You know what I'm saying? Although that, I still was a Tupac fan. Of course. He dropped all, he dropped, he dropped some serious notes when he did and he, and he loved his people and he put it out there in that way. And he made it to where you had to understand that he was saying it and he meant it from his heart. And that's what you don't get from a lot of people. You can, you can rap, you know, but when you saying something and you doing it from your heart and then you hear, Hey man, he stopped what he was doing to go over here and check on a kid that's in the hospital just off the, out the blue. You don't hear nobody doing that, man. You cast don't care about nobody no more. Not like that. You won't hear about that. You have a Tupac, you have a Titi P and then you have.  You know what I'm saying? Thank you so much, man, for coming on the show, man. We love you. Won't be the last. Won't be the last. We wish you much success. And like I said, anytime you need to come through here, you say, Hey man, I got somebody I want to send your way. And I know it's certified by you. I got some stuff for you cause I got my own shoe coming. I got a week, I just be hush-hush because I don't care. Nah, I got the- Whatever you need, man. When your life's coming. When is it coming? We should, I got the makas. I should have my third prayer probably next week. So, if there's anything I can help you with on that, let me know. It's gonna be something that you'll want to carry. So I'm gonna just- Yeah, I'll put it up. Nah, it's some, you know, high quality. I'm gonna have it. And I'm gonna find who need it. That's what a hustler do. Oh, they ain't go, they go. They got to bring bread. They got to bring bread now. Is the price right? Big ol' facts. Okay, well- No, I mean, check this out. But you buy quality. The price is what I pay.    Already, man. Thank you so much, man. You keep a fan on social media. I don't want you to check it out. DunnChiefEGB, that's all me. I do got another page of DunnChief, aka BigChief, but I got, I had got CyberBullet, but I'm back DunnChiefEGB. And that pretty much gets your access to me.  I was like, I need this guy, and he follow me right back. Man, you a real one, dawg. I'm talkin' about, what, no problem. You like, boom. And then I say, I need you on the show.  Then I hit Corey. I was like, okay, I got to get done on here. That's the only way to stay and rock, man. I get a bowload of things. I know you get them. I be movin' and groovin'. I wasn't gonna stop. I be movin', but like, you know, when certain people put in, I got off energy. I simply move off energy. I may look at a message and won't email it, but I may look at something and be like, what's happenin', you know what I'm sayin'? Like, I just go off the energy because that's just how I move, you know what I don't. I don't really trip question, and it's just, if the energy, if we connect, then it's me. Now I thank God for it, bro. Real talk, and I appreciate you for comin' on the platform, man. And it wasn't no hard thing. The brother pulled up on us, blessed our game, man. We just comin' in January. We started back up, and because of the COVID thing kinda slowed everything down. I said, in January, we're gonna start. We've been full-fledged. God, been good to us, man. All the time, man. And I think, like I said, when you ready to check back in, say, hey, E-man, I got these shoes, I'm ready, man. Nah, them boys hard. I believe it. Nah, them boys hard.  You know, like, when you see them, I ain't gonna talk about it. I ain't ghost it or nothin'. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I already know, if I post, they gonna be in my inbox, like, you know, give me them, so. It's going down. I got something, but I see you got to set up. I'm gonna make a show, make a show, I got it in here. Say, man, boss talk 101, man. Can we out? I saw you.