Hello, everybody. If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's up Tom? Hello friends Tom picked the topic today the topic today is going to be display boards Tom picked this because he reminded me That in you got any other drinks you want to open live on air Tom? That's that's Rip it just grip it and rip it Okay, so Tom reminded me that in more than five years of doing this show We've never once formally talked about display boards. I mean we've obviously talked about how much I hate them So this is a fun chance for for this is what we call the KO revenge when I sprung doing a KO Revisited show on Tom who has now turned around and I think it does enjoy his KO army though He still wishes there were they were different better, etc. But I think you are enjoying playing them Uh Sure, there we go. See it all worked out in the end And I've come to love a display board when I've got a good idea So and that's what we're gonna talk about tonight But first some news and by the way the first thing you're gonna say Tom is rumor engine You know what I don't have up on screen Elves I don't have a boy. I think I'm gonna ask you what the rumor engine was. Yeah So and then it's actually L set in the box. Sorry. Yeah, sure. That's good The rumor engine this week is obviously some 40k thing because new 40k is sucking up a lot of the oxygen It's all all the oxygen. Well, we thought it might suck up all the oxygen completely But in fact Tom was correct when last week he said this was this is absolutely true credit where credits to Tom said, I don't know. I think we could fit the Lumen F box in this next Sunday You like you would go on it would be announced next Sunday, right? She said so we have one week and the idea was it drops And then we learn and then we'll get the delayed release that they had promised previously, right So you were right because uh, the rumor engine is just a 40k servo scalping. Yes, it looks neat I hope it's a new cool model super great. Okay next. Yep. Thank you next So You know, you know what the best part about the elves this box releasing this week is absolutely zero percentage cow parts in this box I know what you're going for Tom Everybody's like I thought you hated Lumen F and I was like, what are you talking about this box amazing? Yeah, this box is what you were dreaming about when you heard about this release, right? It is because the funny thing about this army is how bifurcated it is for you Because the the the three units in this box the archers the spearmen. Yep. Wait, is that right? Are there? Yeah, there are archers spearmen There's no archers. It's just spearmen and calf. Okay, that's right. You have to buy your archer separate There we go. Okay. Sorry the spearmen the calf I mean we'll include the archers even though they're not in the box because they're certainly venari or whatever, right? And uh, and the light of alvarian, right, right all feel Super classic just high elves reimagined in a new In a new age two steps away from the old elves type of thing, right? Then you have this hidden part of the army just like waiting back there just Just waiting getting right into hits you with that cow parts. Yeah, I just I see the just the shack meme where he's like Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just I'm thinking the guy behind the tree coming out That's like the rest of the cow elf army waiting to get you after they trick you with the high Elf looking part of the army. It's true. It's true. No, I I couldn't I couldn't love this box more Yeah, sure. I mean, maybe if it was cheaper, but you know, that's that is what it is. Um Moving on to news. Well, yeah, yeah, I mean, let's let's do the actual luminous realm lord saying go ahead hit me with the news Now we've already talked about it Uh, so we'll start with prices. I just mentioned it prices leaked and it's a little bit on one hand It's the irony. I'm saying it's expensive. The irony is I thought it was gonna be a $200 box like the sisters of uh The sisters box and it wasn't in the us. It's only 185 A virtual steal for I mean not really Yeah, I'll say 16 models. So basically Basically, it's a getting started box with a book Yeah, I mean, yes, sure with a limited edition book like let's You know be fair to be fair There's not a huge amount of savings In this book, right? What you're actually getting is one in the box the box Just the coolness of your you're getting your hands on it this early time too You're basically getting all of the tokens and dice and all of that stuff all of this supplementary stuff At that you're paying for Well, it's at my point is that if you total up like the two kits the character and the book Realistically you come to a little over 185 kind of depending. We don't know the individual kit price yet But just sort of assuming averages It's probably like the the infantry boxes are probably about 50 the characters are probably about 40 And obviously a book is normally 40, but this is a limited edition book. So But it's not a full limited edition book. I think I'm not sure Whatever doesn't matter. Those are those are like 80 60 80 something like that depending so uh Okay, so it's it's you're still getting it cheaper. But then like if you assume a discount whatever whatever It's not a huge savings, but it's a super good box Nonetheless, I think Because it does give you a lot of the solid foundation. You're gonna offer this army I especially after seeing the rules leak. I do think we'll see a lot of this stuff in armies It's also not a huge army. So I you know hard to imagine it not being the case. I mean It's like the best dice at gw is released in two years It is functional dice. They are functional dice Which is highly disturbing. I thought we had a pact I thought we had a pact at gw. We had a dream of not aggression dice fact correct that you were going to keep making almost as a joke right the worst dice Ever purposefully so that they could not be used. I have the silvanette dice on my shelf back there There is not a single number or pip on any of those dice. Sure.   It's true. I you know, I love It's a nice box. It's a beautiful like the art on it is beautiful. Again, it has that wonderful picture of teclis That's better than his model Sure Like I just love like it's a great box. That's what I'll say and I'm looking forward to it and and uh, yeah And like the kids look great. Um The spears look a little bit long, but you know, we'll deal with that.  Of course. Who doesn't want a special like who doesn't love combat gauges? We all know that you flex your power by Getting by having special combat gauges. That's how that's how you actually show your power in a tournament The more special combat gauges you have It's true the more powerful of a player you are like it's just that easy Yep That is why Sean and Jake of the Detroit Are two of the most feared war gamers in the country because they have they have a veritable clutch just a Prison key ring like a 19th century prison key ring Of the metal The metal combat gauges the first edition heavy Yeah, yeah, yeah, not that not those flimsy $10 ones. Oh, no, no the elite ones The elite ones indeed um Yeah, so I you know like again as I said, I love the box Um in most of the stuff that I don't love about the army Is coming later, which I'm okay with I'm not gonna lie. Um, so yeah, so I I'm looking forward to it. Cool. Um, let's talk about rules Let's talk about rules. You know what we're gonna do tom. Here's what I'm gonna do. I had this ready to go Uh Badal, I'm gonna flip us over to the page. Wow like that boom I had this ready to go how they play. I've got the rules article that people can see it on screen now Yeah, that's a bold statement. Let me just open with that. I'm gonna make my picture a little smaller here Um, we don't know how they play. They've just given us a couple rules Sure, I mean, I think we can infer from this what they're I mean I think this sentence right here broadly The army is a killer defensive force that excels in tackling enemy charges head on punishing them with deadly fire powers surprisingly durable core units Okay Fine, who knows how much that translates into reality, but that does communicate their intention How how do they do against 20 chaos chariots? Uh, I mean, I guess time will tell Uh, right, but how many mortal wounds can the army absorb on its march? That's the question here Sure, there's lots of different questions. We have to answer still I think broadly what we understand from this is that they're meant to be a counterpunch army, right? Yes, uh anti alpha, uh, beta sort of a An anti alpha Beta strike army. Yeah. Yep. That's that's what it's reading as. Okay. Yeah. They have a great counter punch Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's it's it's very much like most armies that I would like to play So we'll just spin through these rules real quick for people who didn't see it Aether courts reserve every unit gets one. It's uh, people have compared it very much to aether gold Yeah, we are I can't imagine why everybody gets one instead of just the units of ten or more characters and boats Right, uh, so they could have said every wizard gets one. Sure. What'd have been a nice trick We'll talk about that later Uh, and they can basically once per phase you can have one unit burn its aether courts and do a thing In uh, where the ko use triumphs, they have special rules like heightened senses plus one to hit. Okay. Cool. Fair enough Uh, easy peasy. We've we had seen lightning reactions beforehand the fight with two units Which again, I think does work better as a defensive strike back. Honestly.  I think that's where it turns the tide Uh, I'm fine with all these rules. I really like lightning reactions I think this is the best interpretation of a way to make all and even mention like this is the modern take on always strikes first A classic warhammer rule. Yeah. Yeah, great This is how it should have always been two years of rule writing, of course But I love this. This is a great rule. Super good. We mentioned it originally. I am a plus on this rule Yep, but but Now it's time to get into stuff. I don't like here we go. Okay so, uh Shining so the venari the venari are the things in the the elf things the elf things the not the not cow things Uh, yeah, that's fair. So it is the uh, the venari are the sentinels the wardens and the dawn writers, right? So the spearman the bowman in the cavalry great Shining company Okay After a venari unit is set up if the base of each model in the unit is touching the bases of two or more Other models from the same unit then that unit becomes a shining company. All right. Let's stop Okay After the unit is set up is when you check this Right and every base every base has to touch two or more Other bases from the same unit We're all together so far, right great Okay That unit remains a shining company until after finishing a move the base of each model in the unit is no longer touching The bases of two or more other models from the same unit Or until after removing a slain model from the unit the bases of any remaining models in the unit Are not touching the bases of two or more other models from the same unit Okay, got it cool. So they they're in a tight phalanx formation. That's what I'm I understand you're trying to tell me I understood Subtract one from hit rolls for attacks the target a shining company However, the shining company cannot run or charge and models in that unit may only move one inch when they pile in I hope this rule is so bad that no one ever has to use it Because I mean, we all like the minus one to hit, you know that right? I do I really do but this rule is such a nightmare rule I I can't even I don't know why this was written like this this look. I'm not talking about power level as per usual I don't care about stuff like that. Okay, like it's good. It's bad. Whatever whatever who cares Things are as powerful as they are. They're good. They're bad They wanted it to be thematically play like a rank and file. I understand I completely get it. They were trying to like They're trying to like jack in the rules For a sort of rank and flank stance into a game clearly not built around that foundation Okay, where people are just in in clouds So this immediately is a problem because okay, I'm going to scan back up to this picture that we had introducing these guys None of those guys are in shining company formation What what what? This picture down here Nope Nope And every picture in the article None of them are in that formation. I mean, I don't see any of the cav in the in the flying lotus formation Sure, sure, sure the Because I want you to imagine. I mean, we know what these guys cost We know their points because it got spoiled in the white dwarf, right? So like a unit of 30 spearmen is not impossible. Oh no, not at all I want you to imagine Moving a unit of 30 spearmen And then having to carefully check After every pile in and everything again, you're only moving one inch when you pile in but still That you're always touching touching There's not room for error. They're touching Two other bases. Oh, I'm I'm very aware. Okay Now The only way this flies by the by in my mind Is if you've got either like the mini mag trays Yeah, right because you can just you can literally get people touching on those or tectonic craft studios makes an awesome gapless tray if you like the mdf tray style Yeah, where you where then Easy peasy great super simple Wonderful scoot the thing forward. It's in a movement tray Easy and like and life is good again. Well, we'll make it worse in a moment, but that's fine Okay Yep And so like as long as there's a movement tray in play I'm fine with this this becomes playable if there's not this is just a silly nightmare And what kills me about this is there was a really easy solution to this We already found it with obr who also they wanted to fight in this sort of formation, right? The answer would have just been Keep everybody the entire unit must be within six inches or four inches or pick some Something wholly within x inches of the unit champion Because by necessity you stop stringing out Yeah, I agree. Yep. Yep. Yep. So this is going to have unintended consequences on the battlefield that they just don't want Sure, okay For example, let me let me show you this took me all of about 17 seconds Are you going to show an image on your screen tom? I am I am I need to flip back over to you then I'll bring you back Yeah, this is supposed to be display boards. We will get there eventually folks. I promise this is just this is interesting So this this conception took me all of 17 seconds. Sure where I was like, okay, what is optimal? Okay, we're gonna do this. What what does the footprint need to look like? Okay archers. They're gonna hang together. Awesome. They're gonna do that Yeah, like archers. He cares. That's super. Yeah, archers are gonna be great. This is a wonderful ability from there Just permanent neg neg wanted it and then Inventory I'm like, okay, I'll use cloud bases or whatever, but then I was like, what do the cav look like? and so This is what all cav formations of five are going to look like from now on Well, yeah, you could do the lotus formation or you could do the three and two But you want maximum frontage is what you're saying. Well, and once you do three and two, I would argue that you risk Uh, you risk if you pull a casualty. Yeah, if you pull any casualty it breaks the company This you can pull any casualty Uh Of the sides. Yep. So you can pull these two And still be fine. Right. And so you can literally go down to two models and maintain your formation or Basically three models and maintain your formation. Right. Um So if you're in the traditional what people would think of is sort of the the the sort of triangle three and two Right, if you pull this bottom guy, whoops wrong finger if you pull this bottom guy Yeah, right then this dude. Sorry this dude is out flapping in the wind and no longer touching two bases Right, right. So like this is the only formation that holds casualties, right? The pulse which I agree. I was about to say the same thing Welcome to your side side trotting side trotting horses. The back guy is always tokyo drifting Absolutely, because why would you not get neg one on your on your calf to be right until you charge? Uh, and then he drifts to the front. This is the new Keep him there because why not right? Yeah, it's worth keeping him in the back and not getting his attacks Probably to get the neg one to hit probably. Yeah. Well, no, but you if you charge it breaks your shine. Oh, you're right You can't charge you can't and so like once you charge with the cab you have to slip But like for weathering shooting or taking charges. This is the best formation. This is it people You better be happy because this is the doggy paw the doggy paw or the or the lotus formation No, it's doggy paw.  Uh-huh. It's a doggy paw. It is a doggy paw. I don't disagree. Yeah. Yeah Okay, so, uh, there's also You know sort of uh, we'll get to the next one. This one's just kind of like Funny in these things it allows notable rules to mention here is that it only happened. You can only assume the formation on setup Okay Somebody said doesn't it count itself No, no or more other models other models, right? Yeah, not right not itself No, it has to be touching two separate models You have to have cloud like it's clumsy three all clumsy three. Yep Um, and everybody has to be like that. So I mean it's yeah, this only happens on setup So once you break ranks the only way you can re get into a shining company is by something that's going to teleport you Or like a bridge Would let you reset up again And so you could re assume a shining company if you ever get a chance to set up again, right? So Cool, which I mean this army will likely need other setups I like not only for that but because mobility seems like it's going to be a real issue with this army Could be I I don't know that that's tbd. We don't we don't know enough to know anything about that yet. Um The my point on this is just from a rule perspective I don't like things that make me check at this level of granularity In a game like this again So my my my statement is they should have had like if they want to publish a rule like this There should be a game aid that is literally these the the movement race Yeah, with like the reality is this and we'll get to this is the farther we go down This army reads truly And we're not even to the worst of yet. This army reads truly as the slowest slow play Like I don't know how this army will ever get through a game ever Well, what I'll say is from what I've seen so far I don't know if I like it'll be on the slower side Fast players are fast players in any army. So like if you're if you're good You know all your rules you can still get through things quickly enough But this rules has a lot of things that wants to take extra time And I will tell you just from what I've seen so far. This is not and like this is not a starter army No, like when you pile in you have to check every model In a unit to make sure every model is touching two other models basis, right? You have to every time, right? I also want to point out that I it's going to be real fun getting all the bases to touch When people assemble these guys with their three inch long spears. Yep. Okay And let's say you have a block of 20 of these guys multiple blocks of 20, right? Yeah, and everybody's got to be in that tight ranked formation like I'm sure there will be a way to assemble them So that it works. I'm not doubting that. I know their model designers are of such quality That they that they will accomplish it. It's just like None of their pictures they did it. So there we go All right, so then the allerith which are the the stone dudes obviously So this is like the these guys your the cow helmet guys and then your your big your big boy your big cow mountains So allerith units the hammer wielding chaps and their mountainous bow buying friends So they have this thing called and you know Enduring is rock was one of the stances they can take where they can turn a rend characteristic of neg one to a rend characteristic of Nothing Which is cool. I should I will point out that that's not reduced all rend by one It's just specifically right one of neg one. So like neg two still shreds through them. It's uh It's the worst. Well, it's basically the old Serif on rule. Yeah, they stole it from the old serif on If they're in this stance and assumingly they have a different stance. It's right get into so that's fine Uh, which would give you a reason to do that. So you're basically in your hero phase. They can choose a stance, which is cool I like I I like many people and picturing them as earth vendors just kind of you know Stomping their feet in the ground and stuff like let's be honest. That's cool Well, and actually what I love about this by the way is that notice that this triggers at the beginning of the game Yeah, yeah, you can actually have it again anti alpha, right? So you don't even actually need a hero phase to trigger it Right. So like you can just let them crash against you and this is already triggered I suspect that they start in this and they can swap between this and other stances. I'm sure Yes, otherwise this otherwise the ability to turn it on is pointless and it would just be a rule that's on them all the time Right, right, right.  So Yep, okay, cool. Um, and then there might be a enclave or whatever that has its own stance or something Sure, sure, sure All right, well, we know there's an enclave that ups the that ups this stance to like ignore a rend of neg 2 Oh, there you go. There you go. They said that in the white dwarf article tectonic force little boy Okay, at the end of each combat phase you can pick one enemy unit within one inch of each friendly unit you cannot pick the same enemy units more than once in the same phase After you pick each unit your opponent must move that unit two inches And that unit must finish that move more than one inch from any allerith units From your army if it is possible for it to do so Once those enemy units have been forced to move any friendly allerith units that are within three inches of any enemy units Can make a one inch piling move so they can push them back is the idea here now So let me get this straight. So let's say combat hold on. Hold on. You're gonna go. You're gonna go straight into these things I want to I want to talk about intention first. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, okay I get it. I saw 302 and it was really sweet and Like watching those spartans just like push and just like And just like shove the the the persian army back Right, just like as all of them pushed together and would just like one step one step one step toward the cliffs Right. Yeah was like pretty amazing. That was a real amazing scene. Let's let's be honest. Okay. Yeah But and thank you aos coach for going exactly where we were gonna go Oh, I wait what that's one unit son. Yeah But this rule has slow play written all Over it. So now let's just now let like cool cool concept. Awesome. Let's talk about the holes in it So you mean I have to now move 120 grots to pile in And then you move your models and then we fight And then at the end of combat I have to move 120 more grots back a couple inches so that you can ball move yours one inch Got it. Okay. Cool. Well, that's if you play it straight by it sort of like how it's worded Yes, of course You don't have to necessarily do that because like Yeah, because of rules because of rules writings You know because the way this is written is it says the entire move you and it has to move two inches Awesome. So I move one model two inches that means the unit has moved two inches And I move everybody else back one inch from from the from the front line Or I go now, you know what? I have enough models. I'll move two inches and circle your army Sure and swing around behind your your models And then basically get a free a free and circling to get more models around you Yeah, you can sort of it's an extra almost pile in because they're gonna end up having just like All right, and and that two inches doesn't have to be It doesn't have to be away from them And it doesn't have to be near the closest model And so you can actually use this like this too This this tectonic force can actually be really bad for you because it can allow them to actually get more models on the objective and Um and pull in other units into combat. Sure. Absolutely Absolutely, like if you've got a big horde, let's take the aforementioned goblins Which are already a timing nightmare, right? Because we already had to pile in the the 60 Let's just keep it to 60 a big unit We already had to pile in 60 grots and we had to figure out where the netters were You had to calculate all your bonuses a bunch of attacks happened I'm down to some lower number of grots now. Who knows what that number is probably less But I mean it might not be a ton less grots are often at like neg 2 neg 3 to be hit. So who knows, right? and um And then you're gonna shove that unit of grots Okay, so now I gotta take my 60 grots and what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna take the edges of that and I'm gonna envelop you Right, I'm gonna stay an inch away and I'm gonna take as many of those grots And effectively the whole unit can just move two more inches towards you Grots who weren't even in this fight are now getting closer to you and closer to your objective and I'm encircling you Right, right, and then you're yeah, sure I know I have more models on the on the objective, right? So like unless you catch somebody at the edge of an objective which obviously there it can be potent Right because you could like it's not to say this won't ever have uses because right pushing somebody Like they try to let's say somebody did tag multiple units on the way in on the charge Yeah, okay Yeah, you might be able to push them if they only like how many times have you got another unit in combat where you've Uh, where you've sort of only got them Uh, like an inch in it might be the case that by their push If they're smart about how they pile in and remove casualties, right like they have to think Four steps ahead here because they have to move the uh, the allara stone guard guy around So he's at that unit so that they have to finish an inch away from that dude And then technically drag themselves out of combat with that other unit that they just barely got like right it is possible But it is some Like four-dimensional chess you've got to play here because if your idea is I'll just push them away from another unit No, I'll just encircle you more is what's going to happen Right, right. I'm going to take those 60 grots and swarm you You just gave me another two-thirds of an effectiveness pile in Yep, yep. Yeah, or like heaven forbid you do it to like ghosts And they just drift through you because their move is fly Uh, yes, but you couldn't do it on these guys because it's a 32 inch base So they're too big on the base.  That's true. Yep, that's true, but you but they could stone circle So, yeah, that's a good call Uh, so like, you know Cool enough might again my main complaint with it isn't that it has nothing to do with power I think it's a perfectly fine Neat concept to explore my problem with it is ultimately that I think it's a timing nightmare Like that it is going to lead to just slow play a thon as I as we now play this game Where I'm trying to get the maximum benefit out of my two-inch move Right that you just granted me right and your you were setting up so carefully In the charge and in the pile in or whatever whatever happened before this every move you had right Uh, where you were trying to get yourself so carefully aligned to execute the push and then my pile in was so carefully aligned So that I'll be able to spread all over the place knowing you're you could do this, right? And it could be the case where we both spent so much time Pre-prepping for it that by the time it comes to the end of the phase They just decide not to do it because it's not going to be any benefit to them So now we just wasted all of that free play on time Literally for nothing on something that didn't actually happen, right? Yeah, like I get said this army between oh and like we can keep going um, so there's that craziness and then um I'll just mention this it's at the bottom of the article, but it should be worth mentioning that uh We'll come back to the um, I mean It's fine like I don't really want to cover the self actions because this doesn't tell us enough about them like Uh, but we can use this as a launching pad to talk about uh, there is one thing I want to talk about here And it's it's in this guy. Yeah, I know. Yeah. Yeah What I'm gonna say just briefly just to round this off about the slow play potential And the problematic nature of playing this army What that is in my mind is the fact that also every unit is a wizard So welcome to long hero phases By definition Has long long hero phases because everybody's a spellcaster, right? Everybody's gonna try to cast a spell You've got a lot of potent powerful spellcasters probably in there as well Because you've got teclis and the stone mage and the other person you've got hero face stances You're assuming right you've got like you've got all these different things you're going to be doing in the hero phase Undoubtedly, right? Yep. Um because there will be by the way, they'll be aether quartz things for casters You can do in the hero phase too Yep, right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm sure there because they get they get Uh a share of aether quartz.  That's cool. Easy enough Cool. 30 inches don't need to check line of sight probably. Yeah, who knows? Um like I'm sure they'll I'm sure they'll have good bows and that's cool. I I don't mind that at all and um And then you'll have a very long combat and pylon phase And that kind of stuff and then you'll have the post combat Watch other people scoot around the board phase Uh, and yes as somebody mentioned this army if if somebody if you can get dark fire demon rift off against this army Which is somewhat suspect given the tech list is probably going to i'm guessing off the other side of the table Yeah, and he'll probably have auto unbinds. Sure. He just goes no no I don't want that no and so like but assuming you could get a dark fire demon rift off Yes, it will it will rip through this army, especially if they are light on more even if he has a hyper Like countering ability More stock in that spell bottle Absolutely for the ko For ko spell spell in a bottle and dark fire demon rift is a big win for this army. Yes Uh, oh, yes. Yes. Okay. So let's talk about why we think command abilities generic command abilities that were introduced last time Yeah, we talked about this a months ago months and months and months ago um with I remember at least ko it was actually it was probably earlier It was probably ogres where we talked about how there's a bunch of redundant like the redundant abilities that we saw crop up with boom spite gets with the spider commander It is reroll charges ability Uh, we saw that start to crop up more and more armies and we called I don't remember if it was ogres or if it was Well slaves has it ko has it there's a lot of duplicate of the base command abilities Right and and a lot of questions were like what's up with this? Why are these such worthless abilities when we can do this generically and the answer is is probably because we are Not going to be able to always do it generically Right. Um, and so that's what vince wanted to talk about. Let's take away vince. No problem So strike in unison right here. You can use this command ability in your shooting phase or in the combat phase If you do so pick one friendly Ilathia venari unit with two or more models. You can reroll hit rolls of one for that unit So exempting the width two or more models right Yeah, okay These this is just a uh, in fact because of that as a matter of fact It is straight worse than the current ghv Uh, not true Not true on two accounts my friends. Okay, ready for this. I'm ready The first is that there's no trigger as to when you can use this So you can roll your hit rolls and decide if you want to spend that command point super fair. You're right I forgot. Yep. It's just because it just is in the shooting or combat phase. Yes So you can roll your attack rolls and you'd be like I got seven ones. That's a command point two there Or actually there's three reasons two. There's no range to this true Well, so as of right as it's listed right here, but again as it's listed right here This is clearly not a cut and paste from the book. So sure again as it's listed right here There's no range. Sure. So like if you have any general on the board They could potentially trigger the or any hero on the board. They could potentially trigger this for any unit potentially That's that's point number two point number three We have a vent plate situation here because that reroll ones never goes away. All right right You just do it now. You just reroll You just reroll the other one forever that command point just granted reroll ones to hit congratulations You have it for the rest of the game in every phase. Um Again, this may not be the final form of the text But as this is written there are three there are three ways that this is better than the than the generic ability Indeed in one way. It's worse in one way.  Let's see. Uh, do the points in the ghp 2019 change often? So the answer is once uh twice a year Six months during the every six months. There are points adjustments Uh, there is a winter f aq and then in the general's handbook itself. There is a gaming book Yeah, uh, what tends to change is usually pretty minimal Uh, that is to say it's usually like most armies remain basically intact And they always list exactly what Has been changed like they have clear identifiers of what's been changed in in either publishing And you can always find the most current points Like for free in the app If you just if you have the general's handbook or whatever because it'll show When you like pick a unit in the little warhammer aos app You can just pick that and then flip and then add it to your army And when you flip over to show the profile, it'll show the points there and that gets updated almost immediately So like that little warhammer aos app is what I use for all my points because it's just right there Yeah, and the on average the armies that we'll see the largest adjustments Are those that were that were released between three to five months prior Sure, the ones that are sort of need to have the quick adjustments Right because if it was it was released more than six months prior then it's had at least one round of points adjustments You know and most of them are always like fine-tuning So more than six months. It's already had one round of points adjustments and less than three months It's normally too close to printing right So the answer is yes twice a year, but it's pretty minimal and you can always find the current points in the app Those that are most likely to be adjusted are in this round hypothetically would be kao zinge and seraphon Although they're because we haven't had an act of like competitive scene because of covid who knows who knows All right. So anyways, that's that's these guys I mean, I don't want to dig too deep and I just want to talk about the rules things that I we normally don't dig into pre rules like this, but Uh, there were just some such like game design elements that were Uh, that were jumping out at me Right away when I read those it was it was Yeah, like I read this and I was like, oh, this is going to be real hard to play And not like as to pilot. I mean, yes, it'll be difficult But the the issue being like playing against this like the slow play potential is just going to be Outlandish big real big. Yeah, so hey get some movement trays. There's the answer for at least one of those things Okay, cool and and prepare your flying lotus Uh, all right, so uh, no, it's the doggie paw stop saying flying lotus. It's a doggie paw formation Hey, I'm going with the the the the Tom it's four points and a thing. It's a doggie paw formation dogs are cute doggie paw Get into it I'm sure the audience agrees with me that is the doggie paw formation. Nobody likes your flying lotus.  All right, so, uh What else we got there's one other big piece of news obviously beyond this Uh, there is one more piece of big news Forge world will reopen today. Yay. So there you go. Tom, you can get those things you wanted. Are they available? Did you look spent spent all my money already? On boxes and boxes of of new elves. Yeah, sure and also magic cards magic cards.  Um Yeah, right on. Yeah, I I haven't checked yet. Uh, I should probably check Although gobbos are still like really bad Um, and none of that's like really competitive. It's all just like fun to play stuff fun to play fun to paint Um, so it's not on the like on the it's lower on the totem pole Okay, right on. All right. I think that's all the news Uh, by the way, uh, I'm seeing some overwhelming support for doggie paw. I know I know so just saying that's fine It's fine. Okay You've chosen well audience. You've chosen well thumbs up from me Tom let's do some pick of the week, buddy. What do you got? You want to share? We had a bunch of picks and I forgot what they were So would you like me to do both of them since I know both of them off top of my head and they'll be in the show Yes, there we go. Fantastic. Okay. I've got a display board stuff Yeah, since we're going to be talking display boards today Uh, I went and found two of my favorite articles on display boards So one was a mangle miniatures tyler mangle who's obviously a great painter and and and all around a ace human being Wrote a wonderful display board article some time ago where he talked about his own journey with display boards and shared a bunch of Images of other great display boards some of which we're going to look at later on in the show uh, and the Uh, the other article is aos shorts Uh did a wonderful interview with adam trunzo who we're also going to look at a board from That man is a rock star a hero Of display boards and he goes through His entire process for making his serif on display board Which I thought might be relevant as many people might be finishing up their uh, their serif on armies Or something like that at this point. Maybe it's been a book came out right before quarantine Maybe it's been your quarantine army and now it's time to get a display board together for it, right? And so this is a real beautiful beautiful serif on board and he goes through like beat by beat Of how he made the thing and it came out absolutely gorgeous. So trunzo is a genius with display boards Uh, both of those articles will be linked in the show notes to see you can go there and check them out Yeah, that's what I was going to mention trunzo's what you didn't mention is trunzo did for the adepticon at home He did a video of his scaven board that he put together Um, we don't have photos of it because he I don't know that he took finished photos of it But he has a wonderful video on his twitter feed and we'll we'll link to that sure So please make come on trunzo. Where's the finished scaven board man? Get it up What are you doing? all right Cool. Check those out hobby time. What are you working on buddy? What's what's been? What are you working on besides building magic decks like a loser? Nothing Nothing. Have you painted anything or zero?  I have mostly not been working on the marathon, but I'll get to it. I have two weeks three weeks Yes, you got three weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I got two weeks until one of the players shows up at your house So that's going to impede your writing right indeed Two weeks two weeks Get it done tom. We all I'm also working on a chapter to book I'm writing so for work stuff. So that's uh, you know When that's probably has to be done never so it's fine Okay, it's fine It's fine. All right. Well, I have had a very productive week as a matter of fact I finished a big art project which is behind me over here I don't have a way to grab it and show it to people and it's too big to show anyways for the nova charitable foundation It is called uh, so it's actually like art like real art. I guess I don't know Because it's very it's very post post modern. I guess. I don't know. Uh, I put together I for the past year Quite literally since last year around this time in the summer Uh, when I paint I have these little whitebees as I'm sure many of us do I have this little very specific I get these very specific paper towels I fold them in half they have to be exactly halved They have to be exactly perfectly folded And then I'm very I like and and so then I this is where my little whitebees are And I've been saving these every time I finished it went to a spot and I saved them And I saved a big giant stack of them over a whole year And I put them all together into a sort of uh Jackson Pollock type Art piece mounted in a big giant frame and I'm calling it a year of wasted paint And uh, it's I came out pretty cool. I think so it was just kind of a random idea I'm gonna donate it to the nova open charitable foundation because even though there's no nova this year The nova open charitable foundation is still running all its auctions and I'm donating two pieces there One is that art project and one is a My iron fist Or my imperial fist sorry Primaris captain that I did for golden demon last year So I'm going to donate both of those and you'll be able to bid on them.  I think all the bidding goes live here at the end of the month So I'll mention them when they go up And all that money goes to charity, which is cool So, uh, I worked on that I've also been finishing the last units I need for my whirlwind's edge army So I finished my hurricane. He still needs his base, but uh Crab gonna crab you So I've been working on my hurricane Uh, and he's done. I just need to finish up the base Uh, I've also got my knight venator. That's right Knight venator and I have full credit to tom for recommending this one and he's using Yeah, that's I gotta give tom nailed it I really like it in the list. It's silly, but I like it. He's gonna have the uh, the adeptus mechanicus wings And then a big giant Bolter gun that's not actually a bolter gun It is the aos gun But it's the thing that the long strikes use but he's carrying it as a one-handed weapon And I also made three rigors out of the out of that same adeptus Uh Mechanicus kit. I put the archaeocopter on the shelf. I did get one I put it on the shelf for now Because I'm not sure what I want to do with it yet, but I'm working on all that stuff So those should all be finished this week. I know what it should be I It could be an ironclad. It could be a star drake. It could be a lot of things. Yeah star drake is the right answer Yeah, I think like I'm kind of I'll be honest with you tom I'm kind of waiting to see if we get a new storm cast book And star drakes are real good and then I'll probably get into a star drake Sure, I think the answer is star drake Sure, sure if star drakes are real good and I can run like multiples of them. Sure. I'll make I'll get I'll order another one Uh, all right, so uh busy hobby week. I'm excited about it. So if you finish up that will finish My whirlwinds edge army, which will mean it's time to turn to the last thing of the whirlwinds edge army, which is Brrrr Display board. So your timing could not be more perfect So tom shall we talk about display boards? Sure. All right. Okay. Let's do it display boards so Obviously these things grew out of armies on parade and that sort of thing and They vary a lot. We're gonna look at some we're gonna look at some pictures here in just a minute But first I want to get our high level thoughts on them Because there were sort of this armies on parade concept and people wanted a neat way to display their armies So they started making boards and then that escalated and then tournaments started, you know using the boards and then that escalated and display boards are a source of They are escalation in gaming if I have ever seen it I don't know what you're talking about. Sure. Sure. The arms race that is The midwest hobby scene the arms race that is the the midwest display boards, right? Right, right because They they just keep getting bigger And crazier every single year Uh, and we're gonna look at some truly mad ones some just Yeah So let's talk about it. Can we start at the beginning though? Yeah What is a display board and where do they normally get used? Absolutely. That seems like a great foundational thing to lay down Yeah, right. So go ahead rip it out. So for and part of the reason I want to do this is because Display boards are somewhat of an enigma For people like that are joining the hobby or going to their first tournament or something or going to the first tournament It means they're like, I don't understand what I need. Right, right Um And so display boards normally at least in the u.s. Now this depends upon region are often a two by two foot board or smaller In which you You put your army on display for like paying judging and and all of that Fan voting fan voting and appearance and basically you are building a world and in world around your your characters Around your army Um, and it can be something as simple as literally like a board with dirt flocked on it. Sure Um, or it can be super hyper elaborate Normally the the the the largest they can be our two by two um And that's actually the same size as the army the uh army on parade boards as well Normally they are two by two. So if you go into your local g w store and you want to compete It is a two by two portion of the world That your army isn't happening, right? Yep Yeah, which is the size of a so your common things you will see people use Yep are One realm of battle boards because those are two by two. So if people had those that's an easy one That's like a panel like a panel one of the panels of a realm of battle board, which is two by two Yep, okay Two a two by two picture frame you can just go to Any sort of hobby craft art store wherever they sell picture frames and there will be square two by two picture frames And you just take that thing and then you literally just lay a bunch You know you glue a bunch of dirt and other stuff in the middle there or build it up or some way You want to just kind of read you'll generally want to reinforce or Or something like that the glass or take the glass out or whatever sometimes people do some people They don't depends on what you're doing But that's then the set space or finally and I prepared a I have a visual example Ready to go or you can go to your hardware store. Yep And you can buy this which is a Look at that just looks like it disappeared Which is a two by two Thing of compressed insulation pink foam is what it's often often called. Yep. Yep And they come in exactly two by two sections, right? I actually I normally get like a hardy backer board Um that I mount the foam on where vince just does the foam base No, I will often I usually actually go get a two by two of mdf and uses the oh like india. Yes. Yeah Yeah, you can also get just pressed Uh, or what not mdf. I'm sorry. It's the wrong the wrong thing to say. I think I get a two by two of chipboard like that Oh chipboard. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's the right thing. Sorry And I'll um, I'll that's actually like solid as it were and then I lay the foam on top of that Yes, which also gives the advantage that you can drill Little handles in it or something on the side about a piece of wood because the foam won't take that right? Yep. Yep And The so those are kind of the base elements of the of the space two by two usually tends to be a space some people Some tournaments don't set that some tournaments go crazier. Some tournaments don't have official limits Yes, mdf does work as well. I mentioned it, but I mentioned their own context. Absolutely. Yep Uh, so there's there's lots of different Sort of elements you can use in On it Yeah, and so what you're and it doesn't have to be two by two oftentimes it'll be smaller Especially if you're traveling. Yes, that's very common Like a lot of people do smaller because they want a board that will fit in their luggage, especially if they're flying And so this so the the escalation of board sizes is a real issue if you're traveling By by air It's like it's a real issue because you just can't compete in that space in the same way without like a very Careful like board that can assemble and disassemble very, you know intentionally um But uh, it doesn't have to be the full four or the two by two I've seen a lot of people do like one by twos Um before or or some, you know variation of those dimensions You often want to have it, you know To you want it to cohere to the army that you're putting it on right?  Yeah, and we'll go through because like well you will do some visual references here because then I think that'll really get Everybody in the spot. So that's the basics of boards is that it is what your army is being judged on For like painting like it's often part of your painting score But not all of it in any in any stretch of the imagination So don't spend, you know, like the idea is like you're not it You're not having to like create a display quality paint job on the board like to the degree that you're doing miniatures But yeah, I agree with hooves. It gets much easier if you just use your private jet. That's a good point All right, yep I think the best way to to to actually set this up is to just look through some boards Yeah, I have another quick little visual reference. I'll show in person here Okay, then we'll go to pictures. I have pictures after this I just didn't have a picture that's dumb thinking it wasn't worth a picture This is one of the first little crappy boards. I made This is which one is it? This is my orc board for my for my iron jaws I wish I still had your ice board right here.  Yep Okay But now let's look at the real stuff. So I'm actually So this is this is an this is an excellent example, by the way Vince's board is an excellent example of like a simple board Right. Yep. Absolutely And now let's let's do some craziness. Okay So we're gonna start with you tom.  So you can talk Cool. This was your ko slash fire slayer board Uh, yeah, so, um, I wanted to with this one. I wanted to um, I wanted a board to reflect I mean, this was like my first really like Aggregious board like my first one was just like a mud hill With some like castles and stuff on it Sure But with this one, I wanted a board that really reflected the heart of my army Which was my like dwarven fire slayer ko mix Um And so I wanted to feel like it was like built into the side of a mountain or volcano Uh, but I wanted the tech feel I wanted the classic dwarven architecture And so I grabbed a bunch of stuff and jammed it all together And then Vince helped me with various kind of stages as we talked through stuff And I brought it over at one point because we're you know, we're both using it for Our army our armies in holy havoc one year And so we worked on it together and we did some, you know, weathering and yeah Yep Yeah, and I think that it'll be important to talk about the various elements you can use So we already mentioned the pink foam Which which is obviously what most of this stuff is in the back that's built up, right? Yeah That is literally like just like layers of pink foam glued together Yep So pink foam can be your great tool You can go get a little hot wire cutter for it or you can just use a really sharp knife And you can you can slice through it easy enough If you use like a ceramic blade, I found it works really well Actually, we're cutting through pink foam Uh, it can if it has teeth you'll tear it up. So it has to be like very sharp But pink foam can build up your general hills ridges You know variation changes Uh, obviously existing terrain sets are golden for this So people use stuff like the garden of moor set all the time This is obviously some of the adeptus mechanicus or whatever Terrain out of 40k for some of the the arcomite sacks or whatever. I always say that alchemy arcomite sacks whatever they're called Uh, and then you've got alchemy alchemy. Thank you. And then I bought that kit Oh, sorry. Don't don't go to the mid monster dot e you Sorry, it has been co-opted by that that site apparently is down and it has been co-opted by a Another website do not go to that. Okay Okay What is this now? I don't know. Is this a comment? Sorry. I had shared with everybody. Uh, I'll link the company mini monster terrain is mini monster terrain is what you're looking for. Um Anyways, somebody somebody bought it in jason site and did bad things got it. They did. Yes. Okay. Cool. Cool Uh, so obviously the existing terrain kits that you get out there as right ruins and all that stuff Those are all golden for for things to use As well. I think you have some 3d printed stuff or like it's where where did your castle your little dwarven statues come? I know like dark fantastic mills. Is that where some of this came from? Yeah, so no actually So this one everything that is dwarfy is from this mini monsters dot e you that I just linked Okay, go to this site and that one so these pillars and the dwarven statues what you can't see underneath Like in between the statues is a dwarven gate There's a there's a skull that's in the middle where the lava is pouring out of Um, and then also now the in the castle keep all that is from that From that terrain site And so those are all kind of like resin casted pieces. Um, and then the actual The actual Other stuff is just gw standard gw Sector mechanics. Uh, you can see the like you really it's really hard to see but on the top Left cliff are some of the terrain pieces but dwarven like battlements From the old battle for skull pass Yeah, it's it's these little guys right here. Yep. Yep. Um, and so that's a thing Um, but other than that almost everything else is literally just like foam and then the like the basing texture Yep Okay, so then next up, uh, I'll go through both of my display boards that I loaded up photos of that I just took earlier today from my room out there Yep, uh, so this is the board I made for my Daughters of Cain which was the gladiatorial arena For our next year at holy havoc for the next year at holy havoc when we were both playing daughters Yep, so I made the board the next year This is obviously just a piece of mdf on a piece of wood or the sorry pink foam on a piece of wood And then there's a bunch of little accoutrements around just like you mentioned. So a bunch of this is just resin cast stuff from That I that I already had little pieces I had bought little extra bits treasure or stuff like that You know, just any little bits and things you go on there the base gladiatorial arena itself is actually part of a A play school Playmobile, sorry a playmobile gladiator gladiator arena and I'm not the one who thought of this Yeah, it's really popular now in war cry circles Like war like if you go to the war cry facebook group everybody has bought this arena and turned it into a war cry board Yeah This um, I got this idea from arena rex So the the arena rex if you've ever been to a convention where arena rex was being shown Uh, they they used the full size thing because it actually has the full circle for it I just you couldn't fit the full circle on a two by two and uh So I got the playmobile thing and turned it into a little gladiatorial arena with the Cane symbol on it and then the other side of it that you can't see is like a grassy entrance into it with Stones and stuff and then there are there are hidden things inside underneath the actual temple itself as well And you can actually see in the back like you can see elements of kutromat from like the various canite things Yeah, um, so the like the mirror the cauldrons the banners all that stuff So it feels very canite, but I mean but the the the the the raw thing itself is just a toy That's just a toy. It's just a playmobile thing. I had originally intended for the doors to actually work Because they work in the base thing But after I added all the paint and then put all the basing material down Because it it comes off like this thing it has holes drilled into it big pins big quarter inch brass rods where it sinks in I didn't focus on that when I was laying down all the grit and stuff So they're all blocked by rocks and none of the doors work. I was like, oh Didn't think it through Uh, the next one I built I have a video on so you can go watch the video, but this is when I did the Board for the Fallen city Your slumash and I played nine night hot. Yep That's why it has a graveyard so tom. Yeah, the next stick is night haunt Yes, the next year at avok It was supposed to be my year this year, but that didn't happen So this one was rather simple But the the fun tricks to this board were all the train pieces are again, obviously removable This house is the same house that archae on is standing on Uh in my my actual, uh archaeal the my modified archae on so when when I would go play the match I would put in the normal house and then archae on would go to the table And when I Would have archae on the display board I would take off the house and put the archae on's base up on that hill Which is big enough to hold him and then it would still look the same right because it was the same house in either case Uh, the the little piece on the back would come off for the thing of slanash and stuff like that Where they built it in place and things like that and yes, all the little stones are painted individually Yes, yeah, every one of those stones are Are free-handed every single one every single one Yep, that took a long time For for not much effort because I don't like this display board very much, but do you know why I don't like it? Uh, sure why I don't like it. So why don't you like it? Uh, it's too symmetrical Sure, it is. I will that part of the thing is I wanted it to be a city Right, and this is one of the things that we'll we'll talk about in general with display boards Yeah, most display boards you look at feature Ruins because ruins and nature are way easier Okay, it's true doing random bits of outside nature or ruins are way easier than doing a formal city Yep, okay. Yep Cities are so tough cities are so hard because you just things are really packed in and in a city There's not often enough space to actually Then put your army down, you know armies don't generally line up in the middle of a where you've got like space in the city or something So if they do They're out in the middle of a big highway or something. You know, I think of like the the sort of russians going down in front of St. Peter's Basilica or whatever if you were to recreate that it would just be a road In the space you've got available. You couldn't see the big basilica in the background and stuff like that. So Um, no and what I was saying about this by the way is that it's too symmetrical Like if you would done even if you had done like the cross roads as caddy corner Sure As diagonal or even like off-center a little bit. They like rotate everything 45 degrees It would be a little bit more dynamic than what it is. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Sure. I do not disagree at all Uh, but I hate this thing now. Let's look at other people's boards that are way better than ours Yeah, shall we? Yep. Okay So this is where we'll start. This is mr. Adam Trunzo that grabbed this off of his uh Off of his twitter from back in the time This is his this is what you can learn how he built in the article that will be linked in the show notes Uh, this is his beautiful beautiful serif on board This thing is absolutely gorgeous with the whole mountain side and the path for them to walk on and The water running in this as he mentioned like this sort of french drain or whatever Uh, this thing is it's a stunner and as you can see he cut a little path a little hidden path in the mountains Where the little skinky dudes are all coming down He has I mean, this is just this is incredible work Uh, so Trunzo is a true master if you well, like I said if you want to see everything about this This board and its creation and how he went about it Uh, that article will be linked down below So it's a beautiful beautiful board. Yeah Yeah, this is it's it's gorgeous The one thing we didn't talk about is obviously 3d printing has revolutionized display boards As we'll see throughout both the the previous one that I just did the one I showed of this lanish That used a lot of 3d print pieces Uh, but it's really made it Uh Into a situation where you can fashion almost anything you need now Uh, which which has only made things even more insane Well, I mean, I'm not gonna lie. That's why I got a 3d printer Well, I'm not just for boards but for terrain building which gives me the ability to build any anything that I want to build Or that I want to imagine. Yeah Uh, all right. So trunzo's board is absolutely gorgeous. Let's keep moving This was anthony magro's board the coach the aos coach. I think he's in the chat I wanted to grab his board because I really like it It's a good example of how to include a lot of different elements So this is obviously right outside the city But he gave like he has his the castle section And a lot of space up there for his troops to be put up there where they can still be marching from the door And then of course he included the extra elements like the scaven tunneling in underneath the city And the water element over here on the side It's just a really gorgeous board Anthony was cut to the top at can con for his army and that's I think very well deserved So, uh, I really like this one. I think it's really cool. I like the statues He did which are very much the statue out in front of a warhammer world, by the way Yeah, yeah, uh lining the road to the the the front of the city of null dwarf as he says Uh This was uh, aussie wargamer This display board is incredible. It all folds up into a pirate chest It is a pirate ship in a pirate chest with hidden compartments Yeah, bonkers. Yeah, uh, I I didn't see this in person. I did not realize I was in this photo. That's me right there. How about that? Uh, it's pretty easy to spot me Uh, the apron but um, but yeah, this is this is um This board is incredible. This is his mixed destruction board at can con. I mean this thing is unreal Yeah I love it love it So again, like as you can see there are these drawers that like slid out They would be extra places in the pirate ship and he had extra little You know barrels and and booty and stuff hidden in there All of the models in the army were in a pirate theme and you know fit along Like for example the savage orcs that had the little ropes they were swinging off of that he could just attach right back to the The uh to the rigging here and then but those came straight off like they're on the base like that They're all swinging from big giant ropes on the base Uh, and yes as was pointed out. He actually made the chest. Of course. He did. I mean, it's just Bonkers. Yeah, this was a gorgeous again. Let us reiterate This is not what you have to do to go to an event. No, these are the exceptions not the norms Yeah, sure, but it's it's relevant to say I mean your point About you know, I went down to can con to to help do a bunch of stuff to do paint judging and to Participate a bunch of stuff and to help out and do streaming, but there's no way I could fly to australia With with a crate with a board that's going to rival the the the things that were on the top Here as far as their overall display goes right. It's just not right. It's just not possible Yeah, you can't compete in that space and that's okay You can still take best at the event like if you were competing in the event without taking best appearance. Sure. Sure, absolutely Uh, okay, so next up, uh I did know I was in this picture because this was taken while I was while I was judge while I was paint judging it Uh, this is from danny paints. Oh, oh, yeah, uh Of the dwellers below. This is a 40 gallon Oil drum. I think it's 40 gallon. Let's say 40 gallon oil drum that he actually took and Saw it out like he this is this was a real oil drum But he went and got and then he cut out these pieces and he added all this in so again This is the same train you were using there tom right the uh, the sector mechanical stuff Yeah, and then he installed He installed lighting in it So it actually sure like this is that's lit up. That's not paint. That's lighting. That's interior lighting showing out of there Yeah, and uh And you can see there's like led lights down here at the rave And this was his ko army and what's even more amazing is there's a narrative happening if you look at the whole board Where the deeper you go in the more crazy the ko gets like this is the police landing up here to raid This sort of like ko necromunda hive and then as you clearly not sensitive to the Burry times. Yeah, sure As you as you get down farther the the under hive gets crazier and crazier until it just goes to full on rave down here Uh, I mean this thing So just as a point both the treasure chests from Aussie Wargamer and this from Danny paints were in the top three I mean these they ended up being the top three They were let's let's get that right. They were in the top three I'm only saying that because I don't remember. I have pretty sure Danny won But the point being the point being the um uh I'm trying to pull it up. Uh I'm trying to pull up the close-ups of this ridiculous Board like in a like ridiculous in a good way. Um, because it was just viewed like You can get an idea of seeing it here But man, it's like up close. It is just simply stunning. Yeah, it's Danny did an incredible job with this I'm pretty sure he took first. I don't remember if Aussie Wargamer took second or third I I legit don't remember. That's the only reason I phrased them both as top three. Yeah. No, I'm just saying that like Oh, there you go. Coach said he was third. Tim was second. Danny was first. Thank you coach. I appreciate that, sir Yes, so there we go. I thought I grabbed the top three. I'm happy to hear I did That was why but I couldn't remember the rank order. It's been a while Was that back in january? That was in january, which which feels like 72 years ago at this point Sure, sure. Uh, but yes, that's this was january Uh, all right Next up this one is from Steve ren Uh, this was his eighth edition high elf board. This is one of the first times I ever saw a display board that absolutely blew my mind blew my mind Uh, this was back actually his eighth edition high elf army And it has this tower thingy. I don't what's this tower thingy called? I don't remember what that's actually that Should you give me a train piece? But I do not I I can't see it because my video isn't updated. I can't see your screen Gotcha. That's so Oh, uh, that one that is a uh blight stone. No, it's a grid cell blight. Okay. Thank you. Cool Uh, so he had that he had the ship sailing in the water and you know this big bridge that they're marching out over I mean Steve ren Uh There are there are some people in the uk just doing incredible things with display boards. And so yes This was an all-time banger because obviously it had his four phoenixes in it And you know, they all had this mount that he could he'd have them circling the tower and stuff So And let me let me point out by the way notice how he didn't position this straight on But I the 45 degree angle of the streets that I was talking about great composition. Yes. Yeah agreed completely Right. Yeah, I I agree. I do not disagree with your no, I that's not a critique of you Vince That's that's helping people understand what I'm talking about When when when we're talking about composition on a board-wide level. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. Uh, by the way centerfall pointed out that this is the No, it's dreadstone. Oh dreadstone blight. Okay. It is dreadstone Uh, for the record, which freight tour and dreadstone blight were formed out of many of the same pieces Um, and so they were like most of it was compatible It's just which straight which freight tour truly have like doubled the amount of like building pieces So you could vote four levels instead of two The next one I want to show is going back I wanted to end on sort of the idea of simplicity Because I thought it was a really nice thing. This actually came from from tyler's article Uh, because tyler shared one of his simple boards now tyler has made some amazing display boards But I wanted to actually share one of the frame the picture frame boards Yep, right because uh As tyler pointed out in the article and tyler has some really amazing like tomb kings boards and stuff like that So you can go check out the article and see stunning incredible stuff He built but I wanted to show this because he had this challenge where he was using a different army For the vanguard event the 1k effectively, right? Yep, then was his main 2k two-day army And he didn't want to build an insane full-size display board for something He was probably going to use once in a 1k event with his nergal, right? Because he only had 1k of nergal and so, you know, he wanted to keep it simple Yep respect he wanted something that could be interchangeable. Yes functional But good and so he made this this nergal board and it's not to say that this is bad It's not it's still got a lot of really nice touches the little bubbling Ooze that's all around the thing with the big giant poppin bubbles and you know It's still got some verticality to it and things like that but lots of space for his 1k army It's smaller than the full two by two It was easy for him to move table to table because often these are also used to move your army around between tables Yep, people often like just pick up their board and walk it around right obviously not the the oil drums and stuff like that No, no, he did not lug the oil trough around That thing was heavy as all get out So but I thought this was because I don't we showed a lot of really some of the most incredible boards I've seen from events across the years and there are a lot more that I didn't include here I just tried to grab a nice selection Uh, but I don't want to make people think that that's sort of the bar Because it's not you can have a nice simple display board I'm going to put these back down Tom your face are going to come back on screen here Yep, okay. So, you know, you can have a nice board And and it doesn't have to be something insane I'm going to answer Tristan. I'm going to answer your question real quick This board that Tyler has displayed right here. Um, I think that's a perfect board honestly to fly with. Yes If you can turn it sideways, it's very stable Not a lot of tricky pieces sticking out or things like that right can slide it into a carry-on bag Into into even a carry-on bag, you know, potentially because it's not as deep You can be long but not as deep and you can Uh, and you can sort of set it in there pack some clothes around it and you're good to go Yep. Yep. Exactly. Um, and like I would focus on like if you've never done a display board focus on simplicity um Focus on you know, like an 18 by 24 inch. Don't be the full 24 by 24 Or something 12 by 24 or 12 by 20 or whatever right 12 by 18 Whatever your army fits on right and put some dirt down put some grass tufts Put a glue a couple skulls in there if you're really ambitious like put a little terrain piece or something Yep And and call it on it doesn't need to be a extravagant It just needs to feel like that's where your army lives Right, right oftentimes you'll want to make it feel like it matches your basing scheme That's always been a rule of mind. So like in with the sister's army Is they're all in the cobblestones because they're invading a city. I did the cobblestones there for their board the um The daughters were all in that that same sort of broken Terrain or that marble right that kind of thing that you couldn't see but the whole outside of the place was in marble The interior of the arena and stuff was all that marble uh, the Uh, the orcs as simple as that silly display board was that I held up They were all on lava tight bases like that that was my iron jaws army was on those type of those type of lava Bases, right? Yep. Yep.  He's gonna walk you through He has a couple different video series about him making display boards for other people. Yep. Yep. I highly recommend those He made like a frosty snow fortress display board video series that was truly incredible Uh, obviously mel is again one of the greatest humans alive. So, you know, obviously go support him but the This engages a whole different set of skills Than what we normally do when we're painting and modeling right Because this is a craft project As as as much it's it's much more Technic technical technician crafty, whatever you can grab lots of stuff and Use lots of different things like saving random junk Is what I often do For display boards, right? Because you can have all sorts of different little things that might be of use Broken bits of terrain or random discarded things that you might not have thought would have a purpose on any model Boom, suddenly they're perfect for just a Kutrimon on a display board. I actually have like bad prints From my printer. Yeah, sure like failed prints and I'm like, oh That's the footprint of a building. I'm gonna save that one Right, right like and just you know, like I could put it down Clump a bunch of dirt over it put some rubble and rocks and done Yeah, absolutely. One of the things I save is anytime I get paint brushes or whatever They come in tubes, you know, so you always get tubes whenever you have sort of nice paint brushes I always save all those tubes because those end up being really good stand-ins for pipes and piping Yeah on display boards if you need pipes leaky pipes or anything like that You can just melt the end of it or cut the end of it or something like that, you know Just all sorts of little Things you can repurpose Uh In in a big way. These are longer projects. You do need to set aside a fair amount of time I think in all these cases these have taken me at least a couple weeks And when we say longer projects It's not because like it takes a long time to paint but it's often because like Letting all the like the spackling or the like texturing and all that stuff to dry Just takes time right sometimes days Right. Yep Yeah, you're your your best friend when you're working on a slate board other than the pink foam It's going to be something like this But I have this right hand you're your dap you're you're basically your drywall paste. Yep Uh, there's lots of lightweight spackling You know your spackling putty You're going to use this to because you can't just cut the foam often and then call that done You need to putty over that so it so you you're hiding the the layers of separation and stuff like that. This is It's Deciding to make a display board often requires a trip to the hardware store Yeah, exactly. It's not a hobby store. You're no longer at the hobby store with the display boards You're almost always the hardware store. Um, you know, it's so funny I love like and it it like doing display boards invokes an entirely different set of skills right then painting um and so like I I see display boards as an invitation to fun into an imagination because there's just You know, truly your imagination is a limit here. Sure Yeah, and I mean, I I'm well known as a display board hater. Okay. Oh, yeah, Vince hates display board I do I genuinely do But it's because I hate the arms race of necessity around it Partially because what I want to be doing is always competing when I take my army in a in a paint and appearance space That's why I go to a tournament one of the reasons, right? Yeah, I I'm not really aiming to win Uh Anything on like on general ship. That's not my That's not my goal, right, right, but I always feel this Sword of Damocles after I've spent all these months and months and months and painting models of hours on the models But now I've got to make this freaking board, right? Right, but it has to like live up to the models, right And at the same time um Like It has to be like because if you like it depends on what kind of uh, How do I want to say this nicely depends on what area of appearance that you're wanting to compete in um, because if you want to Big display boards will make a big difference in things like fan voting. Yes. Yes. Yes The bigger your display board in general the more positive Reception and it will get in fan voting. Sure Uh, I don't know that I've ever been to no. I can't say that Let's say most events that I've taken my KO displayed board to I've won fan voting Like when there was fan voting most of them have won It's it the the thing about it that drives you crazy is the arms race of it. I love seeing all this work Okay, that's put into it. Yeah, but unless I have a real Part of the problem is it's not where my passion is It's off in the case, right? That's a challenge and I love painting terrain. Sure. I get it I I get it. I don't love painting terrain and I don't love these sorts of craft projects generally Right and I do have a strong passion for painting models obviously Yep But The board has to be something that is like a lightning strike idea, right? Yeah The like like like your whirlwinds edge board Sure, like the whirlwinds edge board which admittedly is a lightning strike idea and you're excited about it, aren't you? I am legitimately excited about it. Tom. Yes. Do you hear it? Everybody hear that? Everybody hear that? Vince is excited about his board project. He's working on right now I am well, I will be I'm not working on it the moment. I gotta finish up these last three units and I'll be working on it That's fair. Mm-hmm But yes And uh, you know, it's gonna be insane like because that's where we're at So it's just you've got to go insane with it.  Uh, by the way coach my I I foresaw that with my KO board and it is exactly two by two by two Throughout all it is as well. Yes, it is it is um and uh Yeah, I mean what I would say is this there are lots of opportunities here to play to play in spaces and uh And to do and to try new things Like if you want to do like I've seen people like uh, Like tronzo one year use dry ice Yeah, sure. I've seen multiple people use dry ice. Yeah dry ice D's building bigger and bigger stuff hauling out real world items, you know, and I'm just where where's the line here? Yeah, I think tronzo had an actual keg on his When he did this the scaven board. Sure. I think that's right Maybe was that the scaven board? I don't remember. Um But it's but the point being that like you could have fun with this Sure, and like this is and and it's fun that like is Is is celebrated by everybody right because like this is It's like Just enjoy yourself. Sure. It's it is a fun project to build that you will then go. Okay. Awesome. I have this big thing Now, where do I keep this? Mine's right there. You can actually see mine. If you look great. You've got one tom Do you see it? You see it up on top right next to the gi joe terror drone Is there the The is my KO display board. Oh nice. Tell me where you're at when you get to four Okay I have another one. I have my daughters of cane board Um, that's tucked away, but I had made the daughters of cane board intentionally To disassemble sure most of these especially when you go super big. They're very big storage becomes a challenge That's my word of warning like you need some space to put it in Right. So there is a value. Let me just say that there is a value In in intentionally designing the board for storage and disassembly sure Which codes mentioned earlier that his breaks down Right like when built well boards can actually like be packed Very elaborate boards. I think martin orlandos does this very elaborate boards can be packed into a suitcase Sure, if you make everything sort of modular in a way that it can put back together Yep, yep, and I've seen like uh some boards that frenzo has built actually have hinges on them Say like they so they fold up and can snap together Um, so like a suitcase so there are lots of different ways that this can be done sure Yeah, uh Overall it is a it is a different sort of project that will be a worthwhile respite If you feel the grind of working on your army and your models, right? So, you know somebody said so build part of a terrain board to play on Yes, and you can actually do that in a couple different ways, right? So like my my dwarf board I can just play necromunda on it. Sure Like it's it's a two by two section of the of the of a world That's 3d. That's interactive that has ladders and lava and and it's like it is built to literally just play on and the intent by the way of my Of that board was to do six sections like that and I actually have a second section That was supposed to be for like my fire slayers when I was going to take them this year That is literally uh in a butt up to that section. That is another part. So I would have a two by or a a 24 by 48 Uh adam tronzo is in the chat and he just said it's very satisfying to build a display board then cut it in half with a band saw I would imagine I would certainly imagine that would be highly satisfying Because yes, some of those things I mean if they get too big and ridiculous. Look if you're if you're hollowing out a 40 gallon drum Once a year, okay, you're just gonna get to the point after a few years You know what I'm saying if you're doing projects on that scale I'm not saying you're literally making a new oil drum every year, right? Where you're just I don't have a place for this. Yeah. Yeah Okay So Well, I think adam I think what he was alluding to is the fact that like he builds his board and then it's for the I think the board that he built hinges on he built it and then cut it in half. Gotcha Um, I I think that's probably what he was he was alluding to there. Um, but what I would say is that like I know for me I have another like mountain-sized board that I'm playing Right like something that rivals my Obviously for your luminous realm lords.  No, if they're good, that's fine. They're just earth elementals now That's that's really easy to solve. I am excited for you to be piloting cow mountains Super easy for me to build The spirit of the earth or spirit of the mountain done That's a pile of rocks. Um But uh, I mean what I would say is that uh, no, but like so I have different like settings Right of like what I'm and like let me just say this when I build an army For me concepting out the board as part of building the army itself Hmm So like it's not usually the case for me. I and that's fine. It doesn't have to although I will say this I know with your tempest I know what you've settled on your whirlwind's edge. I know what you've settled on I also remember the concept you had before that And and I don't want to spoil what your idea was But what I'll say then is that like both of those were compelling and both of those were motivating for you Yeah, I don't think I moved off of the original idea completely I think it's still gonna have that original that that what you're talking about that element you're talking about It's still gonna be there. Okay. That's not that's not going wonderful. Good. Wonderful. My point is that new piece is gonna be integrated Got it. Okay. That's fair. Man. That's gonna be complex. Uh, you don't say tom like I said This is what we got to do now. So fine The arm trace we've all gonna have nuclear weapons.  Sure. Um about nuclear weapons. Um But what I would say is this uh, like you can have different scales of boards and that's that's okay Um for me, I just I when I'm building an army Like part of building the army is imagining what this army looks like on display Because for me what I will do is I will plan an army For the for an event, you know, like so I start each new season normally in the summer Okay in the city. Um Play in summer in the city. Uh, and what I will do is that year I will paint armies and take that army to like 1000, you know Like smaller events in the fall take that, you know, like a that army into the larger events going to the spring And then like I retire that army for that year Okay, with this elaborate board at the next summer and then now for the the army's on parade Which happens at gw stores in in october I now have a full army and a beautiful display board ready to be ready to compete. Sure. Sure.  Yeah, they're really close. I mean, you're you're not wrong. Sure My gw store is quite quite close. Sure. Um, like a 45 minute drive to get to mine Yeah, and that's and that still makes me lucky by many people in the state. It would be like a 15 minute walk. Um If if if um Yeah, uh, but yeah, so what I was what I'm saying though is that you can do you can do you can These boards that you're you're making for your events You can also compete with at the armies on parade. Yeah I think you made a good point of these things can double and I want to drill in on this real quick These things can double. Yes, they're slightly the wrong size. Who cares? They can double as really excellent war cry boards and kill team boards And necromunda boards and stuff like that so, uh And and the fact that they might be slightly misaligned like oh instead of 22 by 30, it's 24 by 24 or Whatever, uh By the way, many events you might go to don't have the two by two restrictions So you could always build it to be exactly 22 by 30 or something. You could you totally good Yeah, and I think that's actually the redemption for it Now that they've made so many skirmish games that are out there between necromunda kill team War cry where you want to have really cool Boards with verticality and interesting terrain and stuff like that I think that's actually the redemption of them because that gives them a full life The nightmare for me is somebody who thinks they have to make a big board for the one event They're going to go to in that year They pour a lot of time and effort into it for it to be judged on that board for one hour For five minutes by a judge that I come around and look at it, right? That's actually its purpose All of that work has gone into the five minutes I'm sitting there staring at your board plus the other 45 minutes is being judged by everybody else there, right? Yep, and then they have nothing to do with it. They just they get home. They're like, okay now What what do I do with this thing? But the fact that you could repurpose it as a war cry kill team necromunda board actually Vastly increases the value of these things to me vastly Yeah, because now it's just a cool play space for another game and Excellent You saying that makes me want to just build boards at at war cry dimensions for now on right Right. I mean because it's not that much different.  I've never seen Even at honestly even at tournaments where I've seen them say display board should be two by two I've seen people show up with slightly different sized boards and I've never seen a to be like get that out of here Get it out of room You know, it's As long as you're not showing up with what they're trying to stop is somebody showing up with four or five or some six foot monstrosity or something Right, right. Yeah, they're truly trying to slid on the escalation the arm brace um but what I would say is that uh That it's interesting now that I think about that if we do in the aos community go to The the new board sizes um, they point it was pointed out that the new, uh 40k board is four kill team boards together six. Oh, is it six a six kill 22 by 30 so two two Two that should be right, right? I think that's right. Whatever doesn't believe it's 30 it couldn't be because it's 60 by 44 now, right? Yeah, that's that's four I don't know math. Maybe it is. Yeah, maybe it's four. Uh, but the point being that like Uh, that may be the direction we're headed sure, right? Like that you just think about think about building boards in such a like a space that you could just turn into kill team or for us for pride boards So something to think about absolutely. All right. Anything else we want to say on this topic?  You're just gluing things around that look cool Like it is so much more of a Lighthearted project. Yes. Yes. Absolutely of of just pure Childhood fun like when you just used to make craft projects for me it calls back to like elementary school art class Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yes. Yes If you're a fan of community, who doesn't love dioramas, right? It's just Just make some dioramas. There you go. Sure. Sure. Yeah I think we mentioned everything That was critical with it. We talked about the pink foam mdf Little chipboard base for it. You can give handles on the side talked about dap You know, oh as we said go to the hardware store. So like just as a side quick note Please don't use like expensive hobby stuff on your board. That's usually not necessary Don't use model paint. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop model paint. Don't use your craft paint. Yeah Yeah, go to walmart pay a dollar for a huge tube of junk craft paint and use that For like my base coating on my boards. I buy paint samples Sure Like of like house paint like wall paint Like the little bins of like paint samples, which are like three bucks or five bucks or whatever of any color They could I could ever ask them to match, right? And I'll just usually go nuts with rattle cans Or you can start getting into rattle can art where I'm just I'm laying down a primer And then I'm just getting other colors and like working the other colors with the rattle can like you see people doing with rattle can art That's usually where I start Uh Obviously your airbrush can be a tool I will say I do tend to still use normal washes, but you can obviously make your own Cheaper you can just make a wash out of some some like liquid text flow improver If you're going to use sand and grit and stuff like that Don't go buy the expensive little pat tiny packages that gets old in basin kits Just go to the hardware store again and go to the garden section and buy the big The big packages of indoor pine bark and sand and that kind of stuff because you'll get giant bags It'll do your whole board for for pennies Right, right. Yes. Yeah, and buy rattle cans again as it was mentioned by josh Like the crylon whatever like the crylon Like rattle cans that are used for tagging things.  Yes.  Yeah. Yep, absolutely Uh, so that kind of stuff is is your key because again, it's not at that micro detail level of the models Most of the things especially if you're working in ruins in nature in wilds and that kind of stuff You're not You're just not working in something where you need that kind of precision like you do with a clean model. So, right, right? And uh, just for washes vince, uh, you tip me off of this. Um Oil paints can be your best friend here. Oh, yeah, absolutely because you can make a huge amount of oil wash So cheap. Yeah, like oil washes are like the cheapest. Yeah Um and so Like I I learned like and it was funny the first oil wash I did was on my kayo board And suddenly like my my kayo board suddenly smelled like a machine Like it had like from from a like odor standpoint my it smelled like an oily refinery and I was like, oh, I love this right yeah So, uh, there's lots of just have fun Yes, the point the point of boards is is not work Um, and I know that it's soul crushing for vince For some of the first things like this, but like I'm telling you folks it can be a lot of fun And there's like and there's nothing more satisfying than putting your models on a well-built board And just watching all of it pop because it all now feels like it's actually sitting in a world Right, right. Yeah, and this is why two this is why two plus stuff is wrong To the core of his being when he says that he just likes Blank black bases that is wrong dug. You are wrong Forever wrong wrong wrong. I agree with 99.9 of the things that dug says he's a great human being And my hero every day he could not be more dead wrong on this Because that is insanity I don't even know what you're talking about Because when you when you actually have even a simple basing scheme and you put things on a display board that even carries on that Simple scheme like the stuff that's on the screen right now with the the lumeneth. That's all a simple basing scheme That's the standard gw You know sort of mud and a couple toughs thing But then they built out this space with the rocks By the way, this this what you see the work hammer people working and as much the much of this is exactly the same stuff we've been talking about and And they built this out and the army sitting on a similar ground as to what it looks like if it was based on It suddenly looks incredible Yeah, it does it does and even their simple basing scheme Even like all they've done is literally like take basic elements nothing nothing Elaborate either on the base or on their actual board Yep, and yet it it's it looks stunning absolutely. It just pops because once the figs get on there And look like they're sitting in that world Yeah, it's incredible. Yes Obviously, I have no real beef with Doug. I just he had he had had a hot take Pain of soap recently that I was watching and I I I joined him live while it was going on I was watching it and was for his first hot take a pity and was was blank bases look better and I was like I joined this at the right time I can think of some other content creators that I said that similar things recently. Sure So, no, I I like to have with all the rest of Doug's opinions in his hot takes I didn't think they were anything wrong with them at all, but uh, but that one You're wrong Doug and I'm coming for you now. It's fine It's all good. He did a great job with his nergal army doing some really impressive faces and he should do that more Yeah, because he won't sell that army I mean that's one perk that's one perk of doing work Absolutely on your army is you're not gonna sell it. That's right All right, Tom. Well, I think that covers display boards. There you go, folks I hope that was helpful for everybody. Like I said, check out the links the articles Uh, there's all the people we mentioned you can go follow them on twitter as well I'll try to throw all that in the description as well because they often have these kinds of things Uh, and so you can get lots of inspiration for amazing projects. So, uh Black rims, I disagree black rims always look good. So at any rate with that, I will say thank you very much everybody We very much appreciate you watching.  Look how easy it would be to just grab your mouse right now and move it over the Few inches to that like button give that a click. We certainly appreciate it It helps other people find the show Maybe some other people who are thinking about making display boards and then they can come here and Uh, they can watch this and that'll be very helpful for them So please click like it's very much appreciated. It helps other people find the show But as always, I thank you very much for watching this And we'll see you next wednesday You