The federal government budget for free or subsidy in the first half of 2022 pledges to end subsidy payment right after that. The Muslim rights concern pushes for a new bar, Muslim president, come 2020. We'll be reviewing today's newspapers and off the press this morning. Good morning and thanks for joining us on the breakfast here in Plos TV Africa. Middle of the week it's a Wednesday morning already and we're just about wrapping up the month of October. I am Osauge Ogbon. And I am Messi Boko. It's good to have you join us. All right, of course we always will start with the top trending stories, major conversations that have, you know, gone across the country in the last 24 hours. And we're starting with Pastor Tunde Barkari who's made the news again not long ago.  But he was, of course, quoted as saying yesterday that, you know, to win the elections in 2023 you would have to somehow some way negotiate with the North. Of course, not the first time, you know, this narrative has been pushed out. But of course, this is coming from Pastor Tunde Barkari once again, you know, who somehow somewhere has a loud voice politically across Nigeria. Sometimes he decides that he's, you know, going to be stepping back and not getting himself involved. But of course, every now and then you still get to see him making certain statements on Sunday, you know, just to push his point and, you know, get himself, you know, somehow somewhere involved. Well, I'd say that some element of truth in what he said, that's because if you look at it at a time where Nigeria, you know, we're regional, we had the regional government, you find out that. However, from the beginning, the British have always, you know, they just made it that the North would constantly dominate. And so it's important because of size, because of, you know, geographical location. I mean, we're talking about population and in terms of, you know, land space that they occupy. So you see that. However, not necessarily negotiation, I'm thinking it's, you know, finding a way to woe them. And because that's what it's about, your ability to convince, OK, this is who I am, so yourself properly, that you're a candidate of XYZ and that this is what you have on the table. That's it. So but to some extent, I think what he's said has some element of truth. He's not wrong because like I mentioned earlier on, it feels like that that's has always been, you know, what it is they were created. I'm sure that a lot of people will not find this statement very funny, but to be very realistic, that's what it has been. I agree with the idea of, you know, convincing. I agree with the idea of being able to sell yourself as a candidate to every part of the country. You need to move, you know, in different directions and sell yourself. But unfortunately, Nigeria's political space is plugged in with, you know, different factors that make even that selling yourself. Impossible. Not necessarily impossible, but there are certain hurdles because there's the religious aspect of it. There's the tribal aspect of it. There's the regional aspect of it. There's also the political party aspect of it, you know, and this is no longer just selling yourself to different regions and different parts of the country. This is now having to say that, well, you know, I am Christian or I am Muslim or having to say that, oh, you know, I belong to this political party or that political party or I am from this tribe or that tribe. One of the conversations we're going to be having this morning is about a Yoruba Muslim president that Miraq is pushing for. Normally, you shouldn't be hearing those type of conversations. Of course. You can be thinking about, you know, the quality of the person and, you know, the competence of the person to hold that seat. But we have plugged in the idea of religion and tribe in this conversation concerning selling yourself. Yeah, especially at a time where, you know, the unity of this country is threatened. I mean, if you look to the southern part of the country, you find the agitation. You come also to the, you know, southwest. You also find that some group of persons, the Odu Dua Republic, are also saying, oh, we want to go away. Should we be having this kind of conversation at this point in time that has been on my mind? But, however, it is what it is. So this is where there's a challenge.  But this is where there's a challenge with Pasatunde Bacare's statement. I listened to a conversation on Twitter Spaces some time ago and, you know, the person basically said that the northern electorate and the people from the north are like the orcs in Lot of the Rings. They basically are used when it's time to win elections, when it's time to cook up figures, when it's time to, you know, paint this imaginary picture that there is a gazillion people, a gazillion voters in that part of the country.  We've not been able to, you know, have a proper conversation about Nigeria's census and Nigeria's voting figures to be out, if we've been honest with ourselves. The numbers of people that are used or that, you know, you see from certain states in the north, sadly, you know, a lot of times people would always say that these things aren't real. You know, I thought there's no, people would argue that there is no, you know, there's no clarity as to whether these figures are true or not. But you can also not, okay, let me allow you. Sadly also, the northerners and the poor level of education and the plug-in of religion and tribe and, you know, and all of that into their space has made them no longer able to make a decision for themselves. The negotiation that Tunibakar is speaking with now, speaking of now is not with the northern electorate. It's not with the Abu and the Ismail and Fatima and the rest of them. It is with the northern leadership, you know, somehow the traditional and political leadership in the north, not with the people. So you're not, he's not necessarily saying you need to sell yourself to these people who are going to vote for you, these two million voters in Kano, these one million voters in Katsina and the likes. He's really speaking about the northern political leadership, not the people. And the reason is the people aren't or have not been able to, you know, be educated enough to make those decisions for themselves. They've also been divided, I mean, polarized by religion and tribe that they cannot make a very clear decision on competence anymore. Their decisions are based on who their, am I, tells them to vote. It's based on who their northern political leadership tells them to vote, not because they themselves have been able to be smart enough to make a decision on leadership by themselves. And that's really where the huge or the biggest challenge for me is, until we have a proper census, until we're able to verify those voting figures from the north, they will continue to push this narrative. And also remember that these northern discussions we're having, they create a narrative that the middle belt, a lot of the middle belt states are plugged into the whole northern picture. Which shouldn't be?  We're having facts that during elections you have underage children voting and all of that. But you still can't take out, I mean, kind of, which of, which local government, which state in Nigeria has the highest local government? I want to say kind of, I mean, look at that, 44. So I still, yes, as much as we say we need to have, you know, that census, we need to verify our population and the figures, get that clarity and, you know, be able to say this is what it is. But we can't still take out the fact that numerically they do have that strength. It's not a fact. Let's leave it at that. If you've said, if you said we need to have a proper census, then you cannot call it a fact that they have those, you know, those figures. They do. Okay, absolutely not. Okay, fine. Until we have the proper census. If you look at Nigeria's census history, you would see, you know, from the 60s that there has been some challenge with, you know, the reason behind, you know, not being able to have actual clarity with our census figures. And the reason there's that many local government areas in those parts is for particular reasons, not because those local governments have been, you know, necessarily, you know, when necessary to be created to cater for the people. It's therefore a political reason. And until we have a proper census, it's not a fact that they have those figures. And I was, I'm sure that we definitely, you know, get to that point where we're able to verify all of that. Okay, so moving away from that, let's also talk about another interesting issue that was also put up, you know, on different spaces and generating a lot of conversation. Of course, the Minister of Information, Lai Mohamed says, the reason the Nigerian government is regulating, you know, the social media space is so we can avoid World War III, the Third World War, of course. And that's the reason. Well, I'm asking myself the reason why we had the First World War, you know, First and Second World, the Second World War, okay, let's start with Second World War. Well, you want to look at it, you talk about the great economic depression and the fact that some treated, the peace treaty that was signed, you know, to end the World War, the First World War, did not actually solve the problem at the time. Several issues. You also have issues of invasion of military at the time. So all of this is not it. Now, if we say that we are actually emulating China, China operates, you know, close economy, a socialist economy. And they do have a reason because they want to grow, they want to ensure that they have local industries, they want to promote, you know, independent local products, local technology. And that would be it. So when we say we're emulating, I'm sure that we need to understand. So I don't know, I don't understand. I told you to understand that, yeah, sometimes you could say there are some things that could be put out on the social media that could actually cause or generate issues. But let's look at some of the issues. I'm not saying that fake news does not fly on that space. Yes, we do have.  It's like you don't have anyone to talk to and you go to that platform and then you put it. And then maybe you have someone who jumps on your thought and then they begin to express themselves. So I don't know where the thought world was going to come from because if you look at the things that caused the Second World War, I don't think that, you know, there's any correlation or connection with that. Or maybe he's just actually putting out that point, you know, to pass a message.  And that's the reason a lot of countries are starting to put regulations on their social media platforms and he doesn't think that they should be different and then spoke about the Twitter ban and said that Donald Trump also did, you know, support the Twitter ban here in Nigeria and some of all of that. He does have a point in about the danger of fake news, you know, but at the same time, you know, it's important to know that most countries across the world have their own social media regulations and their own regulations with regards fake news and it's not necessarily to ban a social media platform. You know, there's many laws that have already been put in place to checkmate people selling or putting out fake news.  Now, Mohammad's concern really is not about fake news in particular, it's about government critics and being able to and that's what you've seen over time that it's mostly about people being able to speak their minds against the current administration and that's what they've tried to silence, not necessarily about fake news. The fake news has been in existence for a long time. No country has been torn apart because of fake news. There's, you know, laws put in place. There's counter arguments and there's, you know, much of that. I remember in the beautiful elections, they used the same Twitter. The government of Kaduna State, you know, made mention of, I'm sure it is still on this Twitter page, that, you know, he was on a Sniper's List by former President Goodluck Jonathan. He was number 12 or number 20 on the list and, you know, it was just a lot of nonsense. I remember, you know, that there was so much, so, so much that was said in 2014 leading to the elections. But right after that, you know, those same, you know, platforms now need to be suspended because, well, you know, it's no longer going in their favor and that's what it looks like. So it's more about control and, you know, being able to, you know, you know, control the narrative and sell only what the government wants to sell and not necessarily because fake news is such a huge problem that will lead to the Third World War. But yeah, there's a minister of information. Well, we hope that we don't get to, you know, get to that point where there would be a Third World War. Another issue also is the fact that, yes, an American lady has expressed her concern, her experience actually when she visited Nigeria with her husband and she talked about extortion, making her feel very bad, crying about, you know, her COVID-19 test and making her, you know, question a lot of things. I'm sure that we probably would have maybe some pictures or videos if we do have. We're going to show you all of that. You know, there was also an audio to that particular effect. I mean, she talked a lot about it. She was expressing herself what happened when she came to Nigeria is really bad. But I think that the issue of extortion is not just limited to, you know, the transport system or to this particular one, something that's ongoing almost everywhere. So you go to a particular office, you get to a particular space, including the men of the Nigerian police, you've seen security agencies. I mean, this is not fake news. This is for real something that I have, you know, experienced firsthand all of this extortion. And I don't know how we're going to end it because it's something that has eaten very deep into our system. And I'm hoping that at some point, we find a way to end this menace. I think she was really complaining about her experience visiting Nigeria for the first time and how, you know, I watched a video or some parts of the video she put out, you know, how, you know, when people see you coming in from a different country, when Nigerian officials, rather, the airport see you coming from a different country, they immediately see you as a cash cow and look out for ways that they can make money off you.  And that's what she was expressing. You know, she was basically advising all the people who are going to be visiting Nigeria to ensure that they have all the documents in check because the people at the airport will try to, you know, fleece you and get some money off you. And it really is just expressed in what everybody knows. And not just Americans or people coming in from, you know, other countries, even here in Nigeria, as long as, you know, Nigerian public office are, you know, 80% of the time. And I think she also mentioned that it's not everybody at the airport, but, you know, it does happen. But these experiences that we always, we know about, you know, and the corruption that we continue to speak about. It's not just in, you know, in government offices or, you know, in state government houses or in the House of Assembly or National Assembly. It's among the Nigerian public service space at the airports, at, you know, the ministries and departments and agencies in customs, in immigration, everywhere that you can imagine. And the hospitals, this is the same country where people were selling, you know, fake COVID-19 tests. So it's not news to anybody that these things happen. You know, she was really just sharing her own personal experience. And I've repeatedly said that we cannot fight corruption by simply arresting big men every now and then. We can't fight corruption by simply looking out for past governors or senators and, you know, that have corruption cases to answer. There has to be more of the influx of technology and a completely mechanized space in, you know, systems basically, you know, that are put across, MDAs across the country that make it difficult for you to steal or to take, you know, money of government. And that's, you know, one of the things that needs to be done in order to actually fight corruption. I remember the passport office, when David Houndain put out the report on the corruption in Andreas passport office. And then a couple of weeks later, there was the chairman of the, I'm not sure who he was now, but the guy at the top of the passport office, then went undercover, you know, to go to apply for passport and see how he can also catch the people that are, you know, robbing night. So he went undercover, you know, and tried to, you know, I think the same thing that a few governors have done every now and then, you know, driving an unmarked vehicle to try and catch the people that are selling petrol for, you know, higher rates than the other. It's just theatrics. They know, you know, and we know that we lack systems that should be in place in order to end and fight corruption better. And when we talk about fighting corruption, it's not just, and I think one of our guests has said it here before, that when you are accusing the governor of stealing 7 billion nair or 10 billion or 2 billion nair, we fail to remember that it's not just the governor. The governor didn't walk into the state coffers or into the bank and pack all that money in his suit and run away. There's many people in that space that facility take on the stealing of those funds. And so it just shows lack of systems and, of course, the Nigerian behavior. And usually, like I always say, that society that we have is a reflection. I mean, the leaders that we have is a reflection of our society.  So yes, we're always very quick to say the governor is corrupt, the president is corrupt, and those in his cabinet and all of that. But if you look at your space, let's look at the space that you control.  Let's look at the fact that you are an MD of an organization. What are you doing with the funds?  Are you diverting funds? And all of that. This is some of the question, including, you know, very little things as breaking, you know, not respecting the traffic laws and all of that. These are some of the issues. I'm thinking that we're not even ready to have this conversation about corruption and corrupt practices. We need to go. It's, we've spoken about this here. I'm not sure if you were here then, when we were talking about how in some certain places in Lagos, there is meant to be a sign that says, you know, it's a one-way street or don't pass this road. But police officers or last mile, you know, the yellow fever, as we call them, wouldn't, you know, place those signs or the government wouldn't put those signs in place. They wouldn't also tell you. They would wait for you to drive into the street first and then somebody will block your car in front there and then ask you for 10,000 or 50,000 or whatever it is. It's the same. It's a corruption in every single corner across the country and that includes in the airport and in the hospitals and in, you know, in our customs and immigrant everywhere that you can imagine. There is those things, you know, simply because of the lack of systems and technology to checkmate these things. And do you think, okay, I'm thinking that we're going to have this conversation some other time because at the end of the day, this technology, these systems will not be operated by spirit. They're operated by human beings. And so I'm thinking, would technology eradicate corruption? I'm sure it will. Stay with us. Ademola Akimola joins us next for Off the Press where we get to share stories. We can headlines across Nigeria today and have his perspective on these stories. We'll be back.