I have Jeannie Henderson. I've got Gosha Baron. I've got a holiday. I've got dr. Gavin McGregor Skinner Hey, dr. Gavin. I've got Lillian Lima and I have RJ Patel And this isn't smart business moves by the way, it's Very special though. We're gonna be talking today about and I want to almost at AR CSI and I SS a residential The association formerly known as AR CSI or RC regional event That's going to be in Rockville, Maryland coming up April 9 at Lillian Lima's office Lillian, are you excited about this all coming up and visiting you in April? We are super excited. We are honored to have the regional event here It's always fun to use that office to learn about Other companies operate and this is our turn.  So it's gonna be a lot of fun for sure well And I know that I SS a residential has been picking up the pace a little bit on regional events and We had one not that long ago. What's in it just a few weeks ago in Austin, Texas? Some of some of y'all were at that. I believe how did that go? It was amazing, right? That's right. Yeah, thanks, Kosha. Yeah, it was great And the every one of these events seems to be picking up steam and more and more people want to come Eventually we might not be able to actually hold the event in an office we may have to rent a space because of How large these events are becoming but they're a lot of fun the Austin one who had a great turnout over 70 people I believe we had in attendance. So, oh Yeah, it was amazing so Tell us a little bit about what a regional event looks like is it? You know Education is it networking is it like getting together and having fun? I mean, what's it like? What do we do? I can take that one so The goal of regional events for ISSA residential is to give people opportunities to Interact with our community in person We we get to participate in a lot of webinars online through ISSA And we have our monthly coffee and conversation that goes in RJ host But this gives us an opportunity to interact in person to we bring in some industry experts To present at these events. So it's education Community and then we get to learn directly from a business owner how they have achieved success and so this last one we were at maids and more in Austin, Texas and Learned so much about how they have built a thriving and very large successful cleaning business and they shared they opened their doors and shared all their secrets and Those people out there who are thinking about, you know wanting to grow their business. This is a great opportunity to like peak behind the curtain of how these how successful thriving businesses get started and how they grow and There's a educational component to it as well. We're going to have some speakers at the one that we're going to be doing up in Rockville Dr. Gavin, I don't know if all of our Residential members know Maybe some of them we haven't even really done and you know talked about G back a whole lot Could you maybe take a minute and explain? What G back is your role and what you're going to be doing at this event? Yeah, thanks, Tom. This is such a great opportunity is is genie was saying to Share experiences tell some stories, but also focus on what works and And how to ensure that again now our whole mission here is how to clean for health and how that applies to Residential buildings, which is why home is a residential building and it's really interesting Tom to think about You know the nut. Oh, I'll throw this at you. How many buildings do we have in the US? You know, we know that number Wow, what what is it 140 million holy cow how many of those buildings are homes Tom Most of them Yeah, you're right 90% a hundred million of the 140 billions in the buildings in the US are actually residential spaces They're homes People's homes and so when you look at the eyes to say Residential community. It's so critical to create healthy safe indoor spaces for nearly every American and It's that critical mission that we need to focus on and so what I wanted to emphasize and then I'll talk about this in my workshop is They're where did you spend most of your time today or even yesterday Tom? Well, I Spent most of my time indoors You can see over the shoulder. There's my air purification system up here in the attic because that's where I live and that Keeps me safe and secure from whatever else is Healthy for me else going around me, but it's really important that as cleaning professionals We learn that again cleaning is the removing of dirt It's we've got to remove something but we need to also remove the dirt the contaminants the germs the bacteria the virus is You know We're gonna talk about some stories. I'm gonna bring some toys with me Tom I'm gonna bring actually some stuff with me Show you how I measure cleanliness in certain different buildings and the way that we might be able to leverage some of those tools equipment technology in In people's homes and because we know that every home is different. We know that people who live in homes could be a You know a whole plethora. It's so many different situations that we could be facing They could be healthy. They could have cancer. They could have underlying medical conditions They could have other conditions that we need to clean for and that what that's really important that that education that training that Continuous improvement Ensures that we meet what the customer requires in their home and it's just it's just I'd even put this up there Tom This is a national security issue. I just said it's a national security issue if we can't clean homes properly well, you know and it's it's interesting because You know Going back to the AR CSI days that we just had our 20th, you know anniversary and you know the industry has grown It's evolved and there's been a greater sense of awareness of you know cleaning is like the Front-line of defensive in healthcare. Okay, and we do we have a responsibility as professional house cleaning companies Employing professional house cleaners to do something more than just make the house look good And we're all looking for ways to compete in the marketplace and differentiate ourselves from all the people that are out they are just trying to clean homes at the you know the lowest dollar and Everything that you're explaining here seems like it is the opportunity to Accomplish so many wonderful things at the same time cleaning for for health creating a better environment Not only for the people who live in these homes, but for the people that are cleaning them being more competitive in a marketplace and you're going to be bringing tools, so I'm assuming this is Denysine tri phosphate meters and they're all all kinds of neat stuff that we can play with too, huh? Yeah, I think it's it's important Tom a lot of the the the cleaning professionals in our isa say residential community that I've worked with over the years Really haven't had that access to those tools We need to sit down and work out how we make that part of the business so that there's a return on investment It's it and so it's not like you must do this and be prescriptive. It's like no How do we bring more value? How do we define ourselves? How do we ensure that what we do is considered essential? You know my house has been cleaned by Maria and her company now for 18 years And they're all really nervous when I try to start on this on cleaning day in my house Because I really want to know what they're doing because I know who I am and I guy's coming But we have we have so much fun just going around my house with my tools God look at that. You did an awesome job and I can measure cleanliness I can show them how effective and what they do follows science and evidence-based principles.  I have to say that would be nerve-wracking I'm with you. I'm I'm told my family stay in the attic. Just say where you belong But but we do we do we do have fun we really do so looking forward to your presentation though We I think I agree that we do need to learn more about this and I love the statistics that you share. That's great Right and we'll bring a personal note Tom You know my mum had cancer and I am so grateful To the the cleaning staff that clean my mum and dad's house for many years and just made it safe for her Why she had cancer her immune system was low. It was diminished She was on chemotherapy and I I know exactly how they cleaned that house and I just appreciate the fact They took the time in the effort to meet my mum's needs You know Tom who else appreciates what dr. Gavin when he brings his gadgets are the people at the hospital in Fiji The three of us went there About six months ago and our goal was to teach them some cleaning methods and tools and ways But we realized quickly upon arrival that they didn't have anything What they were cleaning with were old cut-up bedsheets So Gavin's talking about cleaning for health and not just the appearance is absolutely true when you look at that So these these kids are having open-heart surgeries Over here in the theater and they come to this initial recovery room To the eye it looks absolutely clean It is it is very clean until dr. Gavin takes out his Gadgets and starts measuring the touch point high touch point which in this case we the lady chose the bed rail and He measured it to begin with and anything any number below 200 is safe considered safe and This number you guys want to take a guess what it came in that. I know so I cannot say you already I already heard this from you Oh, Asia gets to guess What is it 700 It was over 9,000 Wow, I thought I was being ridiculous with 1400 So That 9,000 it gives you an idea of how many germs how much like dr. Gavin says making the Invisible visible now. We're showing them. Hey look what exists on these surfaces and If a kid who is immune system is down just like his mom was at the recovery period Are they susceptible to catch something and our goal was to go in there show them give them the tools and Gosha and I had taken To suitcase full of microfiber towels brushes sponges you can you name it whatever we could fit in a suitcase we did okay, and We used to have any idea that they were truly cleaning with rags. I They didn't know any better. No, I guess that was all they had, huh? Yeah, that's all they have That's that that's the knowledge base. Yeah, but I take how much how much scrubbing and elbow grease did we put into those bed rails? We didn't put any effort into them except used the right tools and by the right tools. We took 400 GSM microfiber towels and Dr. Gavin we have this on video. Dr. Gavin had the hospital staff doing the cleaning with a dry microfiber towel with a 400 GSM count and Then we retested it again, and she did the entire exercise and Guess what that number dropped to with a dry microfiber towel from 9058 to Haja Lily. What do you think Tom? 10 Good It was 30. Okay 30 So diseases you know infections that are contracted in the hospitals are really a nasty thing and you know Infection control is such a huge part of it. So what you guys were doing I'm sure truly will result in saved lives over a period of time Yeah, but not only that Tom. We showed that again that service was dirty Um because of the the the number we got from the ATP meter and we showed that with the right Tool which happened to be microfiber in this case and it was and we didn't wet it with water We just used a dry. We could have put you know again the electrostatic properties that that magic magnet Of microfiber works even better when you just moisten it with a bit of water This is not even using we haven't we've even spent money money on chemicals yet. We haven't spent money on solvents We haven't done we're just using a piece of microfiber cloth And we showed that we could we could meet the definition of cleaning remove We removed what was on there to go from 9 000 down to 30 And that means that it's not just the say the bacteria that removed all the other contaminants The dirt whatever else is that was removed as well by that microfiber? and that's what we were trying to show because um again Come to my house one day genie. You'll see that I've got all these indoor air quality monitors that go off every time They spray stuff and I know when my wife's downstairs cooking, you know, and I'm up in there Yeah, there are things indoor air quality is also our responsibility So what we were showing here tom was that again using the right tool in the right place at the right time Is going to save you money give you a more return on your investment as a clean professional Absolutely You guys come to that event. This is what we are going to learn is that right? Right we're gonna play Genie you're going to be doing a presentation at this regional event as well. Aren't you? Yes. Yes Yeah, I'm really excited to share my presentation with everyone who's coming and uh, I also am a Madecentral user so it kind of ties into my use with madecentral but my presentation is called fortunes in the feedback and So we really focus on feedback on my team at genie cleaning And we have learned over the years how important it is to our growth to Not only respond to feedback but to get as much of it as we possibly can To analyze that data and apply the information that we learn in our business. And so I'll be talking about The importance of feedback how to get more of it and then How to treat every piece of feedback as a gift And how to then respond properly to that feedback and use that feedback 10x your feedback To grow your business so you can use feedback from the client side and from the employee side And so I'll be covering that that topic from beginning to end, but I'm really excited to share it That sounds awesome feedback is important important data. And if you're able to collect that Organize it find trends in it You can improve your business in so many ways get better outcomes Oh, I love that approach genie that you've taken because I've been trying to work with residential Cleaning professionals all going do a survey ask four or five questions. Well, no, we can't do that You know, we go in we're we're we're sort of We're silent we walk through we do our job in a couple hours and we leave and we get paid No, no do a survey Get get some feedback on on your professionalism get some feedback on on what people Are looking for when they go. Oh, wow. My house is so nice and clean Right. Well, and that's the thing is people think that feedback always means a negative thing And so they're afraid to ask for it and they treat it as like no news is good news And and so they don't want to ask for feedback But it's actually the positive feedback that acts as fuel for your team to get them excited about doing what they do and doing it well And most of the feedback Last week, I think it was 96 percent or 97 percent of our feedback was like 100 positive And three percent was constructive, right And but all of it is important and we learn from all of it and uh, and if and I recently consulted with a janitorial team in a church nearby where I live And they were not getting any feedback and they were having rampant turnover on their team And I said well, you need to change the fact that your team is never hearing from the end user That they're doing a good job You can tell them all day that you think they're doing a good job But if they don't hear from the person whose lives they're impacting by the work that they do That they're doing a good job. They're going to lose their passion Right. So I will tell you this exactly to what you're saying We are using made central as well and actually we had an employee come in yesterday and she was asking my general manager What can I do to get more feedback from clients? I want to know how i'm doing They want to know Every day how they are making a difference in people's lives, right? Yeah Excites them to see the good feedback because they are putting so much hard work to it Yeah, see how they are doing. So yes, that's that's priceless. Absolutely. It's a human need to know how what we do Makes a difference and so feedback is such a big part of that and um, I bought my business actually back in 2015 2016 from some friends who were getting out of the business And they had 50 clients at that time.  And they're like, oh We never asked for feedback And she literally said no news is good news I've heard it described as like bowling with a sheet in front of the pins Where you're rolling the ball down the lane The ball goes underneath the sheet you hear things rattling around but you really can't see what you did without feedback That's really what you're doing. So you don't know how you how you're doing. You don't know how to get better And it's not very satisfying not being able to you know get You know that type of feedback on your results. So what you're doing is a win on so many fronts Yeah, no, I'm excited to share it with everyone. So That's one of the many reasons to come but we have several we have Gavin speaking. I'm speaking Aja will be speaking. Aja. What are you speaking of? Yeah, I'm doing my my all-time favorite topic always But really how to unlock some operational excellence with the right software and kpi management. So I'm kind of going into it's not just about how many homes you clean Nobody's in this business for you know to clean the most homes. I mean it that could be part of it But also, you know delivering the best You know service that you can and how to how to manage that on the on the operational side There's a lot of different ways to make sure that you're giving the right value of service for what they're paying Just really embracing technology understanding that there's lots of ways to get this information and It's important to have and it's important to track ongoing um, you know, if you if you test something and it has nine thousand germ molecules on it at one time and then 30 on the next But you don't keep testing it and that nine thousand comes back. You're you're missing out So it's the same idea of what we're doing within our businesses making sure that you're bringing You know your nine thousand things wrong down and knowing what to look at and when to look at it and just really really You know pushing forward your technology into your operational ability So i'm very excited. That's one of my favorite things to talk about. So i'm pumped There's a lot of different ways to get feedback and your kpi is the data that you collect from running your business is very important feedback as well And knowing what to do with it And it's sometimes something that people get a little scared of too It's the same idea of asking for feedback. You know, if you don't know you're not doing anything for it um, and it was really funny when we were talking about that genie, uh With them saying oh, we don't ask for it and there's a there's an element of that in in business operations too of Oh, we don't ask for it because we don't think it's going well That's what I feel like is the unsaid portion of that statement of Well, we don't look at that because we don't think it's going well And it's like okay. Well, maybe it isn't going well But if you don't know what you could aim for or what things you could do to improve that Just ignoring it doesn't mean that it's going to get better So, um, there's lots of ways to make really good data data driven decisions Um, and if you just hide from your data, then you're not you're not able to to do anything with it So, um, it's the same kind of idea that if you don't ask you you can't do anything so Can't hide from it. No no being fearful of your of your data So lily and you're going to be hosting us at this event. We're going to be meeting at your office Um, I know a lot of a lot of our issa residential members know you you've been a Active member for a long time But just take a moment and tell us about your business and what we're going to see when we're at your office Okay Yeah, I started with my SSI years ago. I love it back then was air CSI And love to be part of it It was in one event that I met RJ and super cool person says very Um, very nice every time. So I have learned a lot with with our members from the industry So we are located in Rockville and Like I said, you know, we are honored to host the event I have been in many, um regional events and every time I learned a lot So this time we are welcome everyone and we don't have a huge office, but very functional Uh, because we have everything that we need in the building So this is like an idea that's like going to have a really cool office Um in a smaller space. So we have everything that we need um space for meeting and where we meet with our employees and we where we have our meetings and um, you know, we have like our kinds of Who is tough in our office that we would love to share And also we're going to be meeting on downstairs. Like it's a huge area there like lots of space for to hang out and happy hour And then the space where we're going to be learning about all the topics And it's a it's very central area here. So we are close to Um Eating out I'm going for a walk. You need a break. So it's it's a really pleasant space outstanding We're really looking forward to this and we're really hoping that A lot of people here in the residential cleaning community will come out and join us if you want to know more about the regional event I'll see if I can share a screen here. I'm sorry. I'm sure pulling up the screen um Dr. Gavin you live in washington lily. You're in washington Tell us about the weather that time of year Well for me rj. I should have bought shares in Allegra and clareton years ago. It'sology season I'm taking my Allegra twice a day right now. Otherwise just to survive It's a cherry blossom season, but it's beautiful. I grew up there. It's beautiful this time of year.  Um cherry blossoms are incredible And any masses it's very very special tom You're you if you if you're in this area and you're visiting for the first time even the second time Make sure you see the cherry blossoms there. They are spectacular. There's there's over 3000 cherry blossom trees here in dc How long did they bloom for? Very quickly. They uh, they have a six stage bloom. They're at stage four. They are expected to peak in the next 10 days or so and then we'll get a storm in the little drop But they are something else. I'm really excited to see them And there's a few other things I dropped a link.  It will redirect you here as well Um, but this is how you register for the event and there's also Issa clean advocacy summit that follows this regional event a couple of days, you know All contiguous for that week. We're also doing an mca live Event wednesday thursday friday at this week and we're doing it lily ends office as well So why don't you go ahead and plan on spending the whole week with us and and uh, I'm saying, you know rockville. It is maryland, but technically we're we're in a sub over dc It feels like a cheer in washington Um, I think one just came out today for for the assi regional Very good Well, I think that we're seeing everyone at the event We're all going to be there and um, we're pretty much uh, at the end of our time here So we're going to go ahead and and call this a take again. Um Residential dot issa dot com if you want to learn more about it if anybody has any questions Feel free to hit up any of us. We're all kind of hanging out in facebook We'd uh love to answer questions and and get into more details if if that would be helpful Everybody thanks so much for uh participating in this look forward to seeing you a few weeks Up in dc y'all take care


Good afternoon and welcome to Cooper Hewitt. I'm Caitlyn Condell the associate curator and head of drawings prints and graphic design here at Cooper Hewitt Today marks the official opening of the exhibition nature Cooper Hewitt design Triennial co-organized by Cooper Hewitt Smithsonian Design Museum and Cube Design Museum in Kirk Rada, Netherlands On view concurrently the shows both open to the public today The exhibition allows audiences in both the US and Europe to experience the work simultaneously The first time ever for each of our institutions This Triennial seeks to inspire ideas Collaboration and dialogue to address the most significant environmental and humanitarian issues of our time And I'm excited to begin this dialogue with the conversation today We are fortunate to have two of the designers featured in the exhibition with us to discuss their inspiring practices I will introduce them both briefly and they will speak about their own work before we come together for what I know Will be a lively discussion Shahar Levne is a conceptual material designer born in Israel and based in Eindhoven in the Netherlands Her lifelong fascinations in nature biology and science and philosophy developed into the intuitive material Experimentation during her studies at the design Academy in Eindhoven She was recently named one of the 100 most influential International talents in the creative industry by icon design magazine and was nominated for the 2018 Beasley design of the Year Award Charlotte McCurdy is an American interdisciplinary designer and researcher based in Brooklyn She is a global security fellow at the Rhode Island School of Design with the support of the MacArthur Foundation And also a member of the new museum's cultural incubator new ink She holds a master of industrial design from RISD and a bachelor of arts in global affairs from Yale University Please join me in welcoming Charlotte and Shahar Okay, good Okay, so the conventional story we tell each other about climate change is that it's a problem of burning fossil fuels for the production of electricity and for transport It then follows that what we need to do is to reduce our consumption of those fuels to reduce our release of those gases It then follows that you and I should feel guilty Our unwillingness to sacrifice our modern standards of living causes us to contribute to polluting a pristine nature What this story misses among other things is the third of emissions that come from the chemistry of stuff In the next few minutes, I'm going to tell you about a category of emissions that most people don't talk about Emissions not from burning fossil fuels, but from the intrinsic chemistry of things like buildings and plastic bottles And then I'm going to tell you why adding these emissions to the scope of your concern is a cost for hope not further despair So let's look at the materials currently complicit in climate change. We're talking primarily about cement steel and plastic These materials are carbon emitters like fossil fuels because they are fossilized life in The terms of my work. They are ancient sunlight So what do I mean by ancient sunlight? Big beautiful carbon-based molecules are how life stores the energy of the Sun Let's follow the sunlight of plastic for a minute So photosynthesizing organisms hundreds of millions of years ago took in sunlight and carbon from the ancient atmosphere built carbon-rich molecules of their little bodies, which then Settled to the ocean floor and gradually accumulated into carbon-rich sedimentary rock Which then went to just the right sequence of pressure heat and capture to produce petroleum We then take up that slurry of carbon molecules separate them by length break them apart recombine them into all of our plastics This process releases carbon all along its chain Looking at these materials as ancient sunlight raises a logical question What would happen if we made them out of present-tent sunlight if we took the carbon from our current atmosphere in the sunlight We have right now We could make we could not only reduce our dependence on ancient carbon We could if we do it right store our current carbon in our materials and This isn't science fiction This raincoat is made from a plastic I developed that's made entirely from marine algae macro algae and it is carbon negative It is made from naturally sequestered carbon And I'm far from alone. That's where this gets exciting There are breakthroughs happening in biology and catalytic chemistry in real time And we increasingly have the technology to make new and familiar materials carbon negative For example, there's a company you might have heard of That through one of their partners is sitting on a patent that allows them to make PET standard plastic bottle plastic entirely out of plant sugars But faced with the conversation dominated by biodegradability There's not really space to introduce a good old PET even if this time it's entirely petroleum free This one company produces three million metric tons of plastic a year To put that in perspective if all of that plastic was in the form of 20 ounce soda bottles We stack them into a cube the size of the new museum Don't bother straight this one company produces 10 new museums a day every day every year PET is more than 60% carbon by mass So we have the technology to make carbon negative materials But what's missing is desire and a fundamental understanding of the complicity of materials and climate change This is a design challenge We're on the edge of a revolution and we don't have the vocabulary to ask for it. I See a future where the buildings that shelter me and the shirt on my back have a desirable impact on the concentration of carbon in the atmosphere and Where we can all re-engage or engage for the first time with climate change because we can touch it and have hope I'm Charlotte McCurdy and after ancient sunlight is an umbrella project that builds a path to a future where culture can be a carbon sink in A paralyzed policy environment. We need a citizen led movement to pave the way to a market led inevitability This to me is political realism It's happening already with solar. It can happen with materials too and it has to So I offer you my guiding design question for this project What would it feel like to get back into a present tense relationship with the Sun? I hope you'll join me in working towards a future where we can find out So now to something maybe a little bit different So as a carline introduced me at my name is Chacha Rivlin. I'm a conceptual material designer I'm gonna briefly explain what is a conceptual material designer Because probably you're used to hear about material designers and that they design Systems how to deal with materials or they design new new type of composite materials or for example PT sugar cane sugar based Plastics, so it's more like engineering materials, but I see it from a conceptual way So for me every material is a carrier or a narrative It's a storyteller and I'm trying through design to attract people to listen to the story Is it by interacting is it by looking so I really believe that design can also be a mental practice I'm very very much With the project I'm presenting here. I'm kind of looking to the Anthropocene. Maybe some of you heard about it It's the new geological age that we live in There was a panel this morning Kind of a bit later They're gonna be a panel later and digging into it if it's really should be an official Geological era or or not. I really believe it is Some some people say they started when when humans started agriculture. So when we started changing the Landscape or some people say they started with atomic experiments. So we left atomic residues in the earth What is it really interesting for me about the Anthropocene is that because I look in a really big Time scales geological time scales It's a just one Little second in the lifespan of the earth.  It's only like a split second of the life That's existed here and will probably exist after us I Want to talk about nature in a different way. So the way we see nature is usually very romantic we're always imagining when somebody is telling us nature we think about Fresh meadows or trees and we don't see it and it's not really like that anymore So since the industrial revolution nature started to become completely different Can we call it already next nature because it takes to itself human made materials? We extract it, but we also bring back into it So nature nowadays looks more like the pictures that we see everywhere about plastic pollution see full of plastics rivers of plastic pollution extraction of materials So as I said some people assume that they say that Anthropocene era started when we started nuclear bomb tests and for me it was a really interesting moment because It created a new material kind of a natural way So you can't really call it a human main material, but more like a naturally occurring material This is trinitide. So it was residue that was left In the test area of the bomb trinity. I think it was here in the USA or in Mexico probably I think I'm not sure So yeah, so it was a new type of material that happened because of us, but in a very natural way So I'm really trying to figure out also with my research also the way I work as a designer like what are the Borders between man-made and natural and I found out that it's very blurry nowadays. So we can't really say oh, this is man-made This is natural another Narrative carrying material which is naturally occurring, but it's kind of made made it's fordite or motor agate and It occurred it started happening because of the motor industry in Detroit mainly they found out that in the past we used to color cars by Coating them with a mile putting them in the oven and then taking it out and it was laying on the kind of a rail And what the workers in the factory started notice that there's this material that accumulates all the colors are Accumulating on the rails and they thought wow, this is really beautiful material. We should probably there is a potential to it And what happened today is that because this technology is not Is not happening anymore. We're not using this technology to paint cars. It doesn't occur So people are selling those kind of materials for really a lot of money because of the potential of them And they're really looking at it almost as precious stones So this is kind of what I'm trying to explain when I'm talking about a narrative carrying materials this is a time capsule of a technology that we don't have anymore and It's really you can even look at it in a political sense or into Yeah, like what was the colors that were? really Really popular in the certain factory you can really trace back the economical and the political Changes that occurred at that time through this material But the material that I took as an inspiration for my project metamorphism, which I'll talk about in a second It's the first. It's the newest type of rock occurring on the face of the earth which called plastic lomerate It was found in a Y In a certain area called Camillo Beach And the sand there is very over saturated already with plastic particles because of the gyres and the movement of the ocean so it could be plastic that arrives from really far away and the researchers who found Those plastics are really amazed because it's already a plastic that Take part with other natural materials It's really accumulate and becomes a new type of rock without any human intention They found out also they'd buried quite deep So they really call it the marker of the Anthropocene that will probably stay longer than what we assume will happen to plastic So to go to my my project and what I actually did and so for my graduation project at the design Academy as I said, I'm a very material I'm a material a girl and and I was fascinated by the occurrence of plastic lomerate and this idea of transformation of nature And I also was a bit of sick of the way we treat plastic because it became really like the black sheep of humanity It becomes like the worst thing that we can talk about Every time we talk about pollution every time we talk about climate change We start to talk about plastic and I saw so much So much negative Feelings towards plastic that I wanted really to see maybe there is something else.  But if we're talking in a Geological scales time scales, it's not going to bother the earth. It's just going to take it to itself So what is actually metamorphism? It's a geological term that speaks about that refers to heat and pressure that are occurring to materials when they're buried in a certain point When we talk about geological Processes we think immediately like really big Depths really big heat really big pressure, but it starts from 250 degrees and one bar Which is quite light and it's very possible to make it in a lab environment And what they but how geologists refers to it they say that rocks start to act like plastic that they stretch and they become millable and they They change and that's how also you get different minerals and I thought this for information It can be really interesting if we think about it about the man-made materials that would put in it So I started my research by really being just going out doing a field research I went to the beach in the Netherlands and in Israel just collecting the plastic that Went out of the ocean, so it's already plastic that went through some natural processes I didn't want to work with new plastic And I found this little piece of material Which is kind of it is plastic glomerate You don't I don't know if you really can see it in the in the picture, but it already had a few Animals like from the sea starting to grab into it, so it really became part of nature nature So I collected the plastic I collected the sediments which are around it so kind of like the suspicious like the main suspects of what will happen and I wanted to talk about I wanted to refer to the field of speculative design Because again as I said, I don't want to stay in a very small time frame The one the one we're really like talking about now, but I want to look in a bigger scale And so I looked into a speculative design from Dune and Robbie. It's a couple. It's two designers from the UK and They came up with this term and it's talking about different possible narratives So it can be either an alternate narrative So for example if somebody else if Hitler wouldn't win would win the World War two how the world would look like so to a kind of Illustrate that so we can learn for from the way we're using the way We're acting now to learn what would be a possible future or you can do also look and things that really happens in the now and And create some kind of like almost like a detective you take hints you take trends You look at things that occur and you can build a very possible future And what I did I worked with geologist and also I interviewed the person who actually found the plastic lomerate And I asked them what can happen to plastic what really will happen to plastic and of course They said that because it's existing in all kinds of Of environments that momify it for example landfills which are momifying materials Or for example at the bottom of the sea where it's a very muddy Environment and the fossilize it's gonna exist way longer than those 1,000 years we say that they can exist in I'm also very interested in philosophy of design and echo philosophy So a lot of times when I create an object I refer to a philosopher or a philosophical term term And one of the most beautiful essays I wrote was by Ronald Barts And he wrote in his book myth about plastic that plastic isn't essentially alchemical alchemical Substance more than substance sub plastic is the very idea of its infinite transformation And I think that's how nature really works. It doesn't work with good or bad. It just transform. It just digest The material I created the speculative future material that plastic lomerate and all the plastic that we create Will transform into in thousands of years millions of years Is created from a few different materials. So one of them is marble Calcium carbonate which also exists in plastic as a whitener. So it's already in the same environment But it also exists at the bottom of the sea. So it's also the thing that fossilize Animals so I was thinking, okay I have to work with the material that probably will be in the same environment But when I look at the way we extract marble and the way we treat resources and natural resources It's really connected immediately to the age of man the way we change landscapes And I thought it's a very strong narrative that I can kind of inject into my own material The second material I worked with it's called a mind stone and It comes from very deep in the ground when we do a mining for metals or for coal and We bring this ancient materials into the face of the earth so into our time So except for being very poetic and very philosophical About it like oh this man-made landscape I could also work with very organic materials or materials that are not polluted by humans But will come in touch with this polluted material the plastic And of course I worked with plastic from the oceans and from landfills So I couldn't legally go to a landfill. So what I started doing I'm working now with a few a few Companies that they do recycling for household plastic and they give me the plastic They're they're going to sent into landfills. So it's a plastic They don't want to or they can't recycle so it's going to be anyway deep in the ground My material when I use metamorphism on it in a kind of a lab Environment it really becomes like clay It's a very hot clay. So I have to wear gloves when I work with it But I thought it's quite amazing because it's a really different way of the way we're interacting with plastic nowadays It's almost like a craft person. It's almost like in the ancient way We used to extract materials from the earth and really connected them So maybe it will become the new clay of the future. What can I do with it? What will be the value of it? I created this kind of you'll see it maybe upstairs later, or you already saw it and It's kind of a little worshipy kind of a mysterious object and the purpose of doing it was Is that we're kind of worshipping materials? I took the idea from Lacan, which is a philosopher and he called it the object petite So it's the object that will never be able to have we're always worshipping it We're always want to have it if you have 10,000 cars You'll always want to have the newest car and I think also that's the way we're treating nature We always want to control it. We always want to modify it and plastic as well. It's we always want to make it stronger better faster Produced so for me, that's my way of communicating this story to you the crowd The second project the second object I made and it's always also upstairs it's a kind of an archetype of a vase and the idea was to tell the story of the past materials that we work with how we used Natural materials and what will be the new natural materials in thousands of years when we extract landfills as if they were quarries or mines for precious materials and That's it. Thank you So both of the projects are showcased in the try and you'll grew out of your graduate work in your design programs and I was really interested in the fact that both of you chose to name these materials that you were working with and In talking to you right in advance of the show I learned that since the time of your creation the naming of them has been more controversial You've each had different kinds of experiences around the questions that just naming these materials have provoked So I hope you could both tell us a little bit about what that experience has been Yes, we spoke earlier about it and it was really interesting to find a common experience with Charlotte Charlotte that When you name a material immediately you get responses from companies and people who wants to use it for a construction for interior design and I really became very defensive with this material because for me It's a very precious to keep this narrative to keep this philosophical and poetic idea of speculative design I I was really protecting of it from not becoming something that we just used to build I want to keep it as something that is not really happening now They will happen in the future. So of course you can't use it for building if it's not there there yet Yeah, I mean that's exactly To my experience as well that When you name something that people want assume it's you're trying to commercialize it and that it's something that will participate in the economy But I think both of our projects are much more interested in the storytelling work that materials can do and in some ways It's an interesting Shift in the expectations of what design is and what design can do and like the work that design is supposed to do I feel like it's a slightly older or more conservative Model of what designers are doing to say like great like what's put a price tag on it like let's when is it in target? And it's like that's not all design Functions at within society these days and perhaps not where it's most needed given the problems that we face You both chose to make objects that have a familiarity that reference Experiences we have in our day-to-day lives. So why did you make those choices when you were making these works? Well, I kind of use archetypes as a way to communicate to the crowd as kind of an invitation to look closer and Try to understand and one of those techniques is like for example to take an archetype Which is very known in one material that is from in our environment for example What I said about the clay and the moment you transform it into a different material it gets a new meaning and I think that's Also again about about looking in a new way into design that it's more of a tool for discussion than really a material that you can use It's also a bit of a criticism about like why every material that we make we have to use So yeah for me for me. It's a kind of like a getaway an invitation for people and I would say in Working with this material in early stages that I'd often get feedback of like like why not get make Futuristic aesthetics like what what are the aesthetics native to this particular material? And while that's a totally valid and important inquiry the the goal of the project was really around Addressing climate change and addressing that the tools for combating climate change are already here And so having the aesthetics be very familiar very normal and show that this is not it's not some far off future in which we Solve and work on these problems that like it's actually in the present and to make that really Tangible and inherent to the way the design was conceived Top-to-bottom was really important to me We were talking about the Anthropocene which some many scientists believe as the geological age that we're living in and both Of you made work that talked about geological time in a large sense when you're making work That's very specific to this moment How is how is your experience of thinking about time both looking backward in the geological ages and also forward thinking? impacting how you view your own work and also the future of design I Would say I have a specific thought that connects to shahosh shahosh project and put your name I'm sorry, but that in looking through in looking at carbon from a very literal sense and like Focusing on the atoms like where are they where were they where do they come from I found this piece of the story of Geologic Time of Carbon emissions that was really striking and beautiful to me, which is that we're not the first form of life to change the climate that 90% of our coal comes from this one moment when plants develop the ability to produce lignin and it took a hundred million years for Other organisms to figure out how to break it down and so similarly with plastic like it's an incredibly Powerful energy-dense material. It's part of that nature now And it's sort of it's sort of up to the cycles and the systems and the forces that include organisms But also include inanimate objects and forces like to determine what will be retrospectively will be the way this era looks Yeah, I completely agree. I think that's this idea of that every material carries its past but also its future it has a potential for future processes and For me looking in a very big time scale I want us to zoom out because I feel that now we're very as I said We really made a plastic like the source of all evil almost or like the cause of Every pollution and I want people to get to take a step back to look at it from a different scale and Again, it's like geologists They don't look at those things in that way and I think when you look in a different perspective about nature and not very humanistic Perspective you get new new thoughts and new ideas and how we should treat nature as well and how nature works around us Have either of you encountered resistance about the materials and I'm sure with plastic Which is particularly controversial thinking about its future use how it might age in our society But also Charlotte what you've experienced in having these conversations over the last year Yeah, I had a lot of kind of confrontations with people I think I also with my other project. I maybe I'm looking for it Not not on purpose, but that for me This is the purpose for me as a designer when I see people start to talk about it I Received a few times like people saying yes, yes But what is your opinion and I say my opinion my job as a designer is to let you develop your own opinion So I take kind of a step backward. I'm making an immoral Perspective so you can find your way in it. You can make sense of this of those huge systems of your of Make your own opinion do your own research. Don't listen only to something which is on the media or what Sado specialist are saying sometimes and that's what I'm trying to do. I'm really trying to Take a step back and usually when I I'm showing in a in an exhibition and the crowd are coming I'm really enjoying when I see them talking between themselves I don't take a part in it because I'm just the one who initiated the discussion But I wanted to develop it's kind of I give it to the world back I'd say the main criticism That I encounter pretty consistently and I imagine there are people in this audience who are like sitting there feeling it right now Is that I'm very conscious of the fact that my project is very techno optimistic. It falls into a particular way of thinking and talking about addressing climate change and it sort of gets back to this question of My goal is about Planting an idea and sharing an idea and sharing The sense that one could engage with this topic that they didn't feel like they could engage before and so to me it's important to offer In particular to people of my generation a hopeful message even if that comes across as Overly optimistic at time, but I very firmly believe that that's a very important Position to take to get more people at the table get people at the table who are alienated by words like Anthropocene So that we can actually have more people participating in shaping this scary future that we're living into Because it can't be The current like the strategy so far hasn't seemed to work So as much as there are absolutely things to criticize in the particular frame that I offer. I hope that You can consider it as one complimentary approach It's another threat that maybe will bring other people to the table that aren't currently feeling Connected to the narratives that they've been offered so far I can also add to it because we spoke we had we started to talk about design and how design can Really become something else from what we're used to and I think for example in my work And you're also offering an alternative for plastic is that the word plastic although it became very negative Very associate to negative ideas. It's something that we interact with every day So I think it's really helping people to think. Oh, what could be a different solution for it? How can we change completely the systems? How can we maybe I? Sometimes I feel that I give it a kind of a moral break to people that they're like I have to recycle then I'm a good person then I'm nice to the climate change and to the world And I want to tell them this is like a bit of a scheme There's a beautiful documentary which is called their recycling scheme and people are not looking deep enough to understand That they're just living in their bubble and they're just surrounded by by information and sometimes they're okay Not lazy, but they're they don't try to to go forward and I think both by both of our projects We want people to open up to new ideas and to new possibilities We as a curatorial team were really fascinated by the optimism that designers were experiencing and looking at how they were Collaborating partnering with nature even sort of in the moment where there is an increased awareness of climate change The impact on our planet that humans make the UN climate report coming out again this week That optimism is that something that motivated each of you to approach your this area of design? Or was it from a point of pessimism that your work started is the opposite of optimism pessimism or nihilism sometimes I? I would say that My work is more like pragmatic I'd say then Shahar's project that she's presenting here And it is more humanist it's more human centric, and I'm comfortable with that because I'm sort of taking a Stance of Climate change is here.  Let's get good at it like let's take that seriously instead of retreating from it or pretending that we're not and that's very difficult to do responsibly and collaboratively and inclusively and we have to try or What what's the what I to me the alternative is? retiring repose recline and I dispositionally I Can't sit with that, and I think that there are people like me who feel alienated from this challenge alienated from the exclusive vocabularies that get used and want very badly a way to Connect with these challenges, but not be told You need to sacrifice you need to like feel bad every time you take your kids to school you need to like that there there need to be alternative ways of I'm caring and doing work Yeah, I I think well, I'm not really Not pessimistic or optimistic again. I'm really trying to look at the bigger picture like to be really kind of Normalized but Yeah, well, I'm more trying to Give hope as well like with the way we're dealing with materials So by taking plastic which was kind of the first material that we really changed in the chemical sense like in the chemical state scale and We it became like this amazing materials that we're all using Super exotic in the 50s and then later on it became this monster that we can't control anymore. So I'm more trying to say Listen, let's stop for a moment before we create other materials Let's think about about what we're causing and look at plastic as a study case for it So it really becomes kind of like a thought experiment for future scenarios or For future materials that we're going to use. So I don't think it's Neither not pessimistic or optimistic. I Want to open it up to the audience? If you could wait for the microphone so everyone can hear you You've both been clear that the value of the materials that you're working with For the two of you seem to be primarily the ability to talk about ideas But I'm not sure if you're both on the same page with regards to do these materials have a life Beyond you and beyond these projects of your own or are they just bound up and this is Where they belong in in a philosophical realm as opposed to a material realm Are you an investor? I'll say this is that One reason why it's important to me to not try to commercialize this particular material is that there's so much Greenwashing and so much distrust and so much cynicism So I feel very clear that if I show up at the table with something for sale That changes the dynamic of the story. I'm trying to tell and also There's something very it's very important. I am very in my clear vision and hope and sense that carbon negative material culture In terms of built environment both physical landscape like how that is really a possibility. I'm very Nervous about it becoming something that one brand or one entity owns as like Like unique value proposition and then no one else can touch it And so how how to go about being as open source as open with these kinds of ideas so that everyone feels like they can be like wait I make Viscose which is made from trees like are there ways that I could change my production process so that's fully electrified So that this material can be truly renewable for the first time like I want that little seed to Like travel as much as possible, but I Just accept your challenge for sure Yeah, well I stay I stay again I I have to to defend this project as a very philosophical project because I think that As a thought-experienced, it's really doing its work It really makes people a lot of time. I have people that they just go after I tell them the story and they say Wow, you're really I need to go home to think about it. And I think that's immediately like Open them up to understanding that They need to form their own ideas about Recycling and about treating materials. So it's not necessarily for commercial use because I Don't we're really dependent on plastic We're not only addicted to it But we're dependent on it and people don't understand it when they when they protest against plastic and let's just stop Producing it. I think I don't really believe that we can stop producing it at least for the coming hundred years Maybe we can find yeah, we can find Replacements, but we're so dependent on it they it will take much longer that we that most people think and I just want to open their eyes for it. I just want to make the individuals think about it I don't want to work. I don't make a material which is should be commercialized And just to like piggyback on that sense it like that feeling I think one In terms of how it's these materials are part of our near future. There's something really powerful about connecting the really banal asphalt hydrocarbon that's in the road to really precious It's I'm piggybacking on the way you are so good at creating a sense of the preciousness of plastic that These molecules are incredibly valuable. We need them to make really specific medicines and drugs and we need to be thinking more Carefully about what we do with them because they are precious and we need to probably stop paving our roads Yeah, we really we're treating the earth and its resources like it's not precious But it is and I think the moment that I even put plastic as a precious material of the future That will be mined from like the same way that oil fossil fuels are being mined It's like changing completely the idea of natural resources and it's a bigger It's a way bigger story than just plastic pollution and how we treat how we use plastic It's really like a story about Wow, we're really like we're here for such a small moment and we used up the entire earth for our own needs and wants Way way more than what we really need There another question from the audience Hi, so I'm a product design student Parsons And so one of in all my classes as soon as we started making Products and material that teachers are immediately like oh look into this new materials And it's always about something new that would replace plastic whatever do you think that there is a Possibility like a way that we could start looking back at materials that are already on earth Like I find it quite interesting that you start using clay, which is kind of something that a lot of people gave up on Because plastic is there so like why do we need clay for everything? Do you think that there is a way to look back and start looking at those materials again and see see how they can replace? Plastic, which is the black sheep because you know bio plastic now is like the miracle thing It's like oh, it's the greatest thing, but we still have no idea how it's going to reflect the same way that plastic was the greatest thing So yeah, do you think there's a way to look back in something? Definitely definitely. It's like you just said it that immediately your teachers are saying to make something new But why do we have to make and make and make? We have already there's so much materials that we can look back at it's like also in design We're always looking at design history to create the new so why not look at the potential of things that maybe we looked We looked over for example like what you said with ancient Sun I think it's a beautiful idea to look at this perspective like why we're always looking forward and not backwards as well For the sake of controversy, I'll disagree Because I think that There's value in looking backwards for Technic for techniques materials, but in particular when we're talking about carbon-based materials We are There's always gonna be a trade-off and within you may have encountered like a food versus fuel debate back when ethanol when Plant-based fuels were being introduced and it caused food price spikes that affected people's lives, so a Thing that you I try to always keep in mind is that we are on a planet with 7.6 billion people and counting So when we're talking about going backwards, how do you stay honest and accountable to those? billions of people that weren't around and That weren't meeting resources back when those techniques were dominant so I Think there's value in looking at past techniques, but they will have to be very critically reconsidered to function at a scale in a way that is Meaningful and honors the population that like We have to serve Yeah, I think the men the main word is reconsideration because we can use we can Sometimes we're overlooking and materials that they may have a potential to to benefit us and that there are more natural And we're just like really focusing on inventing something new and that's what maybe I more agree with you than we thought that maybe But I think it's about reconsideration and looking at potential of things because there's I'm sure that there's So much natural materials that we overlooked Because for example you work with algae as well right and algae was existing for millions of years and only in the past few years We really look and it's potential So I think it's it's interesting. Okay, you can also invent, but it's very interesting to also look at the past Maybe we overlooked something that can really be beautiful and beneficial And it's definitely a danger in novelty for novelty sake Time for one more question two more question great Yeah, anybody have a question, please raise your hand high so I can see it. Hi Talking about plastics, I'm just wondering because for example when you see the garments made out of plastic like You know that you could pull yesterday's recyclable basically and that's pretty useful and you think oh, that's great Why I spit on plastic But then when you find out that when you wash them the micro particles go in the in the water And there's no way to avoid that. So my question is just more I mean, it's great to be positive and enthusiastic but just where does it end and how in Which way on the large-scale plastic is really solution or just the thing that we created now We don't really know how to get away from but It's just this idea of like if you want to be upcycling it has to be Cycle that doesn't go to waste and I'm just wondering how you approach that aspect Well, I actually I believe that all plastic that you created still exists. So for me It's not I always when people are seeing my project they say oh, it's about recycling and I I don't I don't approach plastic There's a lot of really beautiful projects about recycling and I'm not against it at all I think it's really nice to and great to reuse materials and I'll just throw away and live in this one time One like this throw away society, but I Just believe they just exist in different ways. So plastic when it gets in for example Recently I started research about the garbage patch and the ecosystems that developed there So it just reaches a different way and this idea of like if we if we clean the garbage patch We're also going to ruin those new ecosystems that they have a potential So it's like a new life for those maybe fibers or plastic materials that we we don't need anymore, but maybe a New evolved animal or bacteria and they actually found a Fungi and a caterpillar that can digest BT. Maybe that's the next future So it's very It's it's a bit like you really need to think about it also like in the ethics of it Like if it just becomes part of our environment how it takes part in the environment And if are we going to take it again out and recycle it? Are we actually ruining something new? What I would Tell my watch to stop telling me that I have a spam call because those are so much fun to get um What I'll offer on that is that Yes recycling is broken The vast majority of plastics that have been produced were never recycled at all those that were recycled the vast majority Which were not recycled again? To me I try to focus and this is like my Global fairs economics math brain Nothing is perfect. No intervention is going to be completely Unproblematic the question is always for me relative to what and how do you how do you start where you are and Have a goal of an entirely renewable entirely biodegradable material culture and Know that you can't just jump straight there We're gonna have to start taking steps building intermediate materials intermediate industries and technologies to get there and not shoot The messenger I guess not not critique that first step because it's not the last step Because we'll never get there if we're bickering over the imperfections of the first step And that's and that sort of gets back to the pessimism versus like optimism thing like there's a realism Path as well that sort of tempers both of those sentiments. Yeah, I think we're more realistic than optimistic or Yeah, exactly. It's it's again. It's not a perfect thing and it's again this Really innocent idea of like recycling and recycling But if you think about it where even if a bottle was recycled, maybe the consumer wouldn't recycle it again So it's not a magical and perfect Chain it just like most people they don't even know what they're recycling and I just read a few days ago that The recycling company they say that it's better to not recycle than to recycle wrong Because for them, it's really hard to take care of Materials that are being recycled wrong and then they just have to send it to a landfill Time for one more question Hi, I'm just really interested in this idea of collaborating with nature And just if you have you can speak to that or have any advice on sort of how you approach that whether you're looking at Systems and landscapes and sort of the priorities of those ecological systems and landscapes and how you would intervene or intersect or Collaborate with them and sort of your approach to that I think I more do what is called bio mimicry mimicry or geo mimicry So I'm really looking in the systems that are happening in nature how because nature for me It's the perfect. It's the perfect processes and systems Yeah, I think I'm more inspired by nature and I'm more interested in what is happening in nature than Interving in it. That's more my approach my So starting from a premise of climate change being the theme Starting from an observation that we already have too much carbon in the atmosphere already. We need to be taking it down out If you ask like a room of engineers to build a carbon sequestering machine that is self-replicating self-cleaning potentially ecologically beneficial and like has zero maintenance They wouldn't be able to do it, but it already exists. It's algae like so that that's sort of where There's a humility in trying to look at the natural world and look at how Incredibly well adapted some organisms are to certain behaviors and how can we How can we leverage that instead of sort of back to your question like just try to invent something new for the sake of newness So that's sort of how I would say I think about collaborating with nature is around appreciating that carbon is Actually incredibly scarce on the surface of the earth, but it's incredibly valuable for life So life's gotten really good at managing it. So how do we leverage that? and try to do it as responsibly and cautiously as possible because You can't it's such a dynamic system. You can't change one thing without creating cascades elsewhere Lovely way to end Unfortunately, I have to bring the formal conversation to a close because we have another wonderful panel if anybody wants to stay and join at 330 with three other at four sorry with three other designers from the Triennial on encouraging growth But both Charlotte and Chahar have offered to continue the conversation in front of their projects Which are on view in the Triennial upstairs Charlotte's piece is on the first floor Chahar's is on the third and if you're interested in further conversations around the Triana you can find four of them in the book Collaborations in design which is available in the shop. Thank you all