This insignia is proudly worn by the 4th Infantry Division, also known as the Fighting 4th. In two world wars, the 4th has been in the forefront of action. Today, the distinctive I.B. Leap Patch is prominent in our effort to prevent a third global conflict. This issue of the big picture will review not only the magnificent combat record of the 4th, but also its current role as a component of STRAT, the Strategic Army Corps. You will see how the tough and ready battle groups of the 4th Division today range farther and faster than any before to meet the threat of aggression. Its army presents the Big Picture, an official report produced for the armed forces and the American people. The 4th is based at Fort Lewis in western Washington state, but as a STRAT unit, it is ready to move if called upon to any part of the globe, the entire division, or any of its component parts. STRAT is the United States Army's answer to brush fire trouble spots to the need for quenching such fires before they spread. The nucleus of the Strategic Army Corps consists of three crack divisions, 82nd Airborne, 101st Airborne, and the 4th Infantry. To create and maintain a crack outfit takes long and intensive training, modern weapons, a deeply felt sense of purpose, good leaders and men. The men of the 4th, many of them volunteers, know that they may be called upon for crucial duty without warning. They take their responsibility seriously. For then, rigorous training is a way of life. Due to the nature of STRAT's mission, the soldiers of this division must be ready to cope with any situation. Amphibious assault, mountain fighting, desert warfare, jungle operations. They must be ready for anything and ready now. As an element of STRAT, they have been called the best trained, best informed, and most effective soldiers anywhere in the world. Because speed is essential to STRAT's mission, the emphasis is on mobility. They are ground soldiers who know the utility of air. They are drilled to get there first with the most. These soldiers give the answer to talk that this generation of Americans is growing soft. As qualities that make up a crack outfit, there is usually one other, tradition. Since its beginning, the IV division has always been asked to do the hardest jobs. The division was formed at Camp Green, North Carolina in December of 1917. Six months later, the IV men were over there in France. They were part of the counterweight that would swing the pendulum in the long, indecisive conflict to its final decision. In Midsummer, they moved to the front to forge history. They fought the Second Battle of the Monk at Chateau Thierry, San Miel, Verdun, in the Argonne Forest. In 69 days of combat, the IV took 120th of all battle casualties of the AEF. It met and helped to defeat 16 German divisions and received battle honors for five campaigns. Then the IV marched off for seven months of occupation duty. In the 20 months of its existence, the division left an imprint of valor that would not be forgotten. The ashes of World War I, the Nazis vowed to build a third Reich to last a thousand years. These were the Carpenters. The speed the Nazi machine overran Poland, the Netherlands, Belgium, where the Nazi tide would crest. The unit that would first puncture the Nazi homeland was reactivated at Fort Benning, Georgia, ahead for the fourth lay months, years of reorganization and training. The division, like the nation, had to prepare to meet a new kind of threat, to fight a new kind of war. This was the beginning. In July 1942, the division was pulled out of the mammoth Carolina maneuvers and alerted for overseas. Instead, the men were sent to more training. At Camp Gordon Johnston on Florida's Gulf Coast, they received painstaking instruction in a new technique, amphibious assault. By now, other American outfits had fought in North Africa, in Sicily, Mussolini had fallen, Italy surrendered, and still the fourth trained on friendly beaches. These men could not know that the gap was closing between them and a day not yet on their calendars, an hour not on the clocks, D-Day, H-Hour. After final preparation and staging in England, the fourth division learned what all the training was for. The greatest invasion armada in history was to storm Fortress Europe. The fourth was one of two American spearheads. Ultimately, the total effort of a combat machine is concentrated at the cutting edge. The spearhead must be so hard that it will not blunt, so resilient that it will not crack, and it must endure. To paraphrase a famous statement of the time, much had been given to the fourth division in preparation. Now much would be asked. The time is D-Day, June 6, 1944, H-Hour. For the Third Reich, the H-Hour is late. Division's Eighth Regiment put the first troops ashore at Utah Beach. It was a model landing at Utah, achieving immediate success at minimum cost in casualties. Troops pushed inland quickly. One immediate objective was to reach isolated 82nd Airborne paratroopers who controlled a beachhead artery at San Mary Geese, six miles away. At the end of the second day, the fourth had carried out its first critical assignment. We had a beachhead. Now we needed a port. The division's assignment, expand the beachhead and secure the vital port of Cherbourg, how it was bitter going. The intermediate towns fell despite tenacious and costly enemy resistance. In June, the fourth was in Cherbourg. While it cleaned out the last Nazi pockets, engineers at once began restoring the port city. It was essential. General Patton's swift striking Third Army had to be brought in through here and assembled. The fourth was assigned to pave the way for the buildup. To clear the Quotentin Peninsula, the assignment had a built-in obstacle course. Hedge rows they were called. They divided farm plots about every hundred yards. Frenchmen built them. Germans used them. Americans had to take them. In July, the Nazis were out of the peninsula and the Third Army was in it, waiting to break out. The hole was to be made somewhere along the Sand Load line with a powerful assault by the First Army. The fourth division was one of the spearheads. The breakout operation began with a saturation aerial bombardment. An IV regiment moved out at age hour. This was seven weeks, four and a half hours after the landing in Normandy. Until this moment, Allied gains had been limited and expensive. Now we were going for all of France. The enemy knew what was at stake and fought fanatically. But by the end of a week, his line was fractured and the Third Army began rolling south. The 4th's 22nd Regiment received a presidential citation for opening up the Nazi lines. At the same time, strategic Vélodieu fell to the division. The drive was picking up momentum now. We were picking up more information about the recently departed Nazis. The critical key in demolishing the Nazi defense system. One final stronghold remained for the 4th. Saint-Pois. And as this spearhead division passed through towns, the GIs saw the transformation taking place. Signs went quickly. They were no longer needed. The Germans were gone. They weren't coming back. On Swastika. Up, tricolor. After one desperate counterattack, Nazi resistance faded and the way was open all the way to Paris. With the 2nd French Armored Division, the 4th was ordered to liberate the city. For these visitors, the heady experience of transforming captive Paris to Gay Paris. The 4th's 12th Regiment entered Paris at midnight. By noon, it had reached the heart of the city and the hearts of its people. One trouble with spearheads, they don't linger for victory parades. They move on. From Paris, the advance was breathtaking. 50 miles and more some days across northern France and Belgium. All the while everyone wondered just how tough is the wanted Siegfried Line. A 4th Division patrol was the first Allied unit to set foot on Nazi Germany. The time is September 11th. The next day, the division crossed the frontier in force and soon had bucked into the Siegfried Line. However, it developed that the full strength of the 1st Army was needed. In November, the 4th pushed into the Hurtgen Forest. New terrain for the veterans of the beachhead and hedgerows. The Hurtgen was a maze of ridges and Nazi defense lines. After 19 days of bitter fighting, the division rammed through to the other side. The Ivy men moved on to Luxembourg, just as the Nazis burst through in their desperate Ardennes Offensive. The German assault slammed into four isolated companies of the 12th Regiment. Beyond them was a treasure house of supplies and the roads to France. But the 4th Division units held firm, then counter-attacked. Then it became a matter of shrinking the bulge. After the Nazis' last desperate bid crumbled, the 4th joined in the final assault on Germany. Its advance turned to pursuit. It pierced across the Rhine to Würzburg and Rettgen. Then it struck southeast to the Danube. Then on to Munich. The spearhead was six miles from the Austrian border on V.E. Day. The famous 4th returned to the United States and with the end of World War II was deactivated. Its contribution to victory and peace would not soon be forgotten. The emergence of a hard peace in the deeply troubled world eventually would require the 4th again to serve its country's call. The 4th was reassigned to Fort Lewis. Here in 1958, the Ivy Division was selected as a component when Strach was formed. Today, the 4th is ready for any emergency. Its communications prepare the Division for such far-reaching exercises as Operation Long Trust. Men of the fighting 4th respond with dispatch when word is received to begin the operation. A 6,000-mile air deployment to join NATO forces in Europe. All three combat groups of the Division are involved in this longest and fastest large-scale airlift in Strach history. More than a maneuver, the troop movement is designed to evaluate and strengthen our tactical airlift capacity. Only essential equipment goes with them. There are vehicles and heavy weapons await them in Germany. Spearheading Operation Long Trust are units of Division headquarters. They are the first of 5,600 men of the 4th, making the move from Fort Lewis to Western Germany. Farewell scenes are familiar to the 4th Division. Its men have made quick departures before to Puerto Rico, South Carolina, Florida, Alaska. But this time their destination is the other side of the Atlantic. At nearby McCord Air Force Base, aircraft await the troops. Heading this movement is the Division commander, Major General William F. Train, nicknamed Super Chief, by his staff. The nation's most traveled infantrymen follow a carefully prepared timetable as they embark for the airlift. Close cooperation with the Air Force is inherent in Strach movements. The Military Air Transport Service has assembled nearly 100 aircraft for this operation. No idle boast as General Train slogan, Have Division Will Travel. Bleed Plane is one of a group of giant jet aircraft. Turbo prop aircraft also contribute to the unprecedented airlift. Conventional piston engine planes add to the total effort. At the Rhine Main Air Base in Germany, Operation Long Thrust landings continue hour by hour. 4th Division forces build up. General Charles D. Palmer, Deputy Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Army European Command, meets the early arrivals. Operation Long Thrust enters its second phase. Ivy men prepare to move to their new base near Menheim, 6,000 miles from Fort Lewis. The fast-moving 4th heads for the Bivouac area. Waiting there are the jeeps, trucks, tanks, armored personnel carriers, and heavy weapons which have been shipped in advance. The convoys arrive at Coleman Barracks. In this home away from home, the Ivy Division soldiers will begin the final phase of Operation Long Thrust. Once again, the 4th is on German soil. Here they will prepare for maneuvers with troops and equipment from other NATO forces. General Loris Norstad is an early visitor, as Chief of the NATO forces facing the Iron Curtain, he has a vital interest in this test of strike capability. Tactical plans for the 4th Division are completed at operational headquarters. The Ivy battle groups are assigned to maneuvers in the Hohenfelds area, eastern Bavaria. The first part of the tactical move is by truck, deep into the Dern-Brookin Forest. The strike soldiers have a rendezvous with their magic carpet, a wide variety of helicopters shuttling between the rear area and the forward zone. These versatile troops and equipment carriers quickly deploy the 4th Division units to the maneuver area. At home on land as well as in the air, troops of the 4th disembark from the helicopters and fan out over the landscape. Now the climax of Operation Long Thrust, getting there first with the most. In the shadow of the Iron Curtain, the 4th Division again carries out its mission. This strike unit has demonstrated forcefully that it can cross two continents and an ocean in a matter of hours to bring its power to bear on any distant trouble spot. As Major General Train commented on Operation Long Thrust, never before in history have battle groups flown so far, so fast, so effectively. And so history continues to be made by soldiers of the famous 4th, men who stand ready to preserve the peace anywhere in the world. A big picture is an official report for the armed forces and the American people. Produced by the Army Pictorial Center. Presented by the Department of the Army in cooperation with this station.


This work compares the coloristic and colorfastness properties of organic cotton fabrics dyed using microwave irradiation and conventional dyeing methods with ramnospatialaris bois, quercosithaburansis decaine, and quercosithaburansis decaine plus ramnospatialaris bois. The dyed fabrics were analyzed by different analytical and technical methods, including RPHP-LCPAD, CIE lab spectrophotometer, SEMEDX, and colorfastness tests. The results show that microwave irradiation is a more efficient and cost-effective method for dyeing organic cotton fabrics compared to conventional dyeing methods, with almost the same color yields obtained in both processes. This article was authored by Rijapp Karadag, Bonnyu Yesimbu Yuka Kinsey, NMINE Torgan.


John Wilson is a former NEA Foundation board member and lifelong supporter of public education. He says he's had a blessed life. I have to say I've never had a job. I didn't love so I've been a very fortunate person. You could say that he was the first in his family to go to college. He had great teachers who encouraged him, parents who instilled the values of hard work and generosity. He's inspired students and influenced legislators. He even won the lottery, a pretty big one, but it's his ability to empower others. That's really his story. My involvement in education is through my profession, which is teaching. I may have left the job of teaching, but I never left the profession of teaching. So I actually taught in the classroom for 23 years with special needs students. My parallel track was as an activist with the National Education Association. John loved the process of teaching so much he says the NEA had to drag him out of the classroom to be a lobbyist. And what the NEA might not know is that even when an executive there, he never actually stopped teaching. So I would spend the time when I wasn't working for NEA teaching middle schoolers to read. I believe you said you would kind of sneak into the schools or into the classroom. Yeah, I had a group of kids that had been identified as non-readers. So when I would come in, I would go and get them from the classroom and the teachers kind of knew what I was doing. And I would go through my process for teaching reading, which has worked well for me for a long time. And it was just so rewarding to see that those kids that the system had not been able to take care of, that I was able to do that in a relatively short period of time and help them learn the joy of reading and give them books to take home and to make books a rewarding part of their life. It's an empowerment that every person needs to have. I just love that and I just have lots of stories about kids who would come to my classroom as non-readers and how I would manipulate my classroom time to be able to teach them how to read and catch up and fill a part of the system. You said that there were a couple of kids that you really remembered. The first was Lil Zeke, a little boy from a very wealthy family who had been pressured all of his preschool life to learn how to read. So the first thing I did, I took away books, no letters, no pressure, and I had taken animal pictures. And I had used one of these old-timey stamps. So I made these cards and I started with just putting in front of him a horse and a pig. And then I take it away and say, what did you see? And he had to tell me in sequential order what he saw. So what I did is I improved his visual sequential memory. It was a learning ability that I was strengthening for him that you needed to be a good reader. Then I brought the letters back and then I did the John Wilson way of teaching kids how to read and it's all about success. And then eventually he became a good reader and it's so funny now that I'm in Raleigh, he's very active in politics. He's an attorney and every time I'm in a room with him, he will say, I need to introduce you to my first grade teacher. I was really his special needs teacher, but he'll say my first grade teacher. Today John runs the North Carolina Foundation for Public School Children, which he created while executive director of the North Carolina Association of Educators. Its children's fund is like a well of resources for any school employee with a need. The executive director of the foundation is always talking about how much she loves her job. Because she gets to receive telephone calls from a school employee teacher who shares a situation that it only takes money to fix it. One example of that is we had this little boy in Charlotte. He was like in the first or second grade and he needed braces for his legs. His legs were not developing for two years. They had no way of getting any funding for this, so they would use these walkers.  And they called and said, well, we're going to need $1,000 to get this and, you know, could you help us? And we said yes, we'll have it in a day. And they were just stunned that, first of all, we trusted teachers to tell us what the need was. And that we were able to deliver that within 24 hours. And that's what you do with resources. You change the trajectory of children. Why can't we do that in America for every child?


One of the biggest things you can do in terms of internet security is to make sure that you have a unique password for every single service that you use. It needs to be a strong and complicated password. So it doesn't need to be pass one, two, three, four. Don't use passwords like that. It needs to be upper and lowercase letters, special characters, and you know, a sizable length. And of course, it needs to be unique, meaning you only use that password for that service. That way, if that service is ever hacked, they can't then guess your password for other services you use by using that same password. So that's one of the easiest ways for you to get, you know, all of your accounts hacked is to use the same password for all of your accounts. Don't do that. Everything needs to have its own unique password. And don't store it the way I know a lot of my family members store their passwords because I've seen this. They just write it down in a notepad. Keep it next to the computer, right? Don't write it down. Don't write it down and then keep that note at the computer desk that that computer is sitting on. That's very dangerous. Don't, you know, stick the note up under the keyboard or behind the monitor or wherever it is that you think it's hidden. You know, that's not really secure. So obviously use a password manager. And people often ask me what password manager I use. I've done a video on the password manager I use a while back. It's the standard Unix password manager, which is simply the pass command. I did a video on it. I want to say about three years ago past the standard Unix password manager, you can still watch that video. It's still relevant information. It's just getting up and running with pass rather quickly. Now, the reason I don't talk about the pass command that often, even though I love it, I've been using it for years and I will continue to use it. I know most people, it's not the program for them. Most people are used to using internet services to manage their passwords. They're used to using things like LastPass and Bitwarden and services like that. I don't want to use something like that, though, because to me that seems dangerous because LastPass, say you're using LastPass and they're hosting all of your passwords, right? They're storing them. Say one day somebody hacks LastPass and then is able to decrypt all those passwords. Well, then, you know, I don't want to have to deal with a headache like that, right? Because LastPass is a huge target. People are trying to get those passwords. One day somebody will compromise LastPass. It's an almost certainty, right? So I host my own password database on my computer. Nobody's trying to hack my computer because I'm not that important, right? I mean, who really wants my Mastodon password and my Reddit password and things like that, right? I'm not that big of a target for hackers, but LastPass and Bitwarden and things like that, yeah, they're a huge target. One day they will be compromised and I just don't want to be a part of that. So I just manage passwords myself. And if you guys want to see Pass in action here, let me switch to this desktop and let me open a terminal and zoom in. Clear the screen. So when you install Pass, if you're on Debian or Ubuntu, install Pass on ArchSudu Pac-Man dash capital S Pass. It's just the standard password store. I think on Solus, I think it's actually password dash stores. The name of the package. Check with your distribution on the names. On most distributions, though, it's just Pass, P-A-S-S. And what you do is you create a password store by doing Pass and yet I've already got one. And then if I do a CD into password dash store, this is actually the store it creates on the Pass and yet. And there are all of my passwords GPG encrypted. You can't actually read them, how you read them. If you wanted to read them, let me clear the screen here as you would do Pass and then name of, you know, service or whatever. So if I needed my password for, I don't know, Netflix, for example, I do Pass, Netflix, and then the output in the terminal would be the password. Now, I mentioned earlier, you do need GPG keys to decrypt these passwords. The GPG keys are stored in a hidden folder in your home directory at .gnupg. Also, when you first initialize Pass, it asks you for a master password, right? And that one needs to be something you can remember. It doesn't need to be something that you'll forget. It needs to be a password you will always remember. That's the master password. So anytime I do something like Pass YouTube to get my YouTube password, right? A little pop-up window is going to appear and it's going to ask for my master password. You enter that and then it gives you the YouTube password, for example. The cool thing with Pass is that it's very extensible. So there's a lot of extra third-party programs that people have created to work with Pass. If I scroll down, you see there's a lot of extra scripts and a lot of random clients, you know, depending on operating systems that you run. There's actually an Android app, an iOS app. I've never actually tried the mobile app, so I don't know too much about them, but I do know that Pass is built into D-Menu. And that's one of the really cool things about both Pass and D-Menu is that they work together. I actually never use command line Pass. I never go to a terminal and type Pass, name of service or whatever, because I just do everything with D-Menu. Let me show you this in action. So if I, well, let me launch it with the command is PassMenu. PassMenu is a D-Menu script that retrieves, you know, your passwords. I actually have that hotkeyed in my X-Monad configure that is PassMenu again. It's just, I've got a key binding for it. Now you will also notice that there is an X-Monad prompt for Pass, so it's similar to the D-Menu script, PassMenu, except it's built into X-Monad. It works exactly the same way. I don't have it available for me at the moment, but it would look and function exactly like D-Menu just did. It would, you know, just give you a list of your password store entries and just type one or click one and it retrieves that password. And in D-Menu and in the X-Monad prompt, how it retrieves those passwords, it copies it to the clipboard. So it'll copy it to the clipboard. It's not there permanently. You only have about 30 seconds to do something with that clipboard entry. So, you know, if I do, you know, maybe I want my password for DistroToot, which is my Mastodon instance and I hit enter right now. It's going to ask for my master passphrase. I'm not going to enter that. But what it would do is it would then copy my Mastodon password to the clipboard and I have 30 seconds to do something with that.   I wonder what that's to, you know, so that's for security reasons why it's on a timer. Other than with D-Menu and X-Monad prompts, those of you that use Rofi pass also has a Rofi script. So I found Rofi-Pass over on GitHub. All I did was clone this repository and in this repository, there's a script called Rofi-Pass. If you guys want to see this in action, I do have Rofi installed on my computer. So let me CD into Rofi-Pass, which is the cloned repository. And in here there is a script called Rofi-Pass. And if I run it, it's very similar to the D-Menu script, right? It just gives me a list of all my password store entries and I just search for one click in there and it will give me the password stored in the clipboard. One of the really cool things is that the password store guys also support Emacs and they actually wrote an Emacs extension. This is actually part of the password store repository is password-store.el. It's an Emacs Lisp script. So you can get your passwords from the password store inside Emacs. I don't typically use this. I have played with it and I know it works. If I did a metaX and did password-store-generate was the first entry there. What that would do is that would generate a new password entry. So I'd give it a name of an entry and then I'd enter a password to get your passwords. I believe it is password-store-url. Browse URL stored in entry. So that would be the one you would do. And of course you have password-store-remove, password-store-insert, password-store-edit, et cetera. I typically don't use pass inside Emacs. Actually I don't use pass anywhere other than in Dmenu because really because I have the Dmenu script, pass menu. That's the only way to retrieve a password. It just works everywhere. Of course Dmenu works with any desktop environment and window manager. So I've always got Dmenu at hand. In years past I have played around with some browser plug-in and I have played around with Firefox plug-ins that worked with the pass command. There is also a Chrome extension called BrowserPass. I think BrowserPass actually works in both Chrome and Firefox-based browsers. So I could probably add this to Brave, for example. And what it does is when you go to a website that you have to enter a password, for example, they've got the screenshot of GitHub. What it will do is this little pop-up will appear and it'll ask you, do you want to retrieve that password from pass? And then, of course, once it retrieves it, it's going to be similar to like pass menu and all the Rofi pass menu and everything where it stores that temporarily in a clipboard and then you, of course, can just paste it into the form. And although I've used those browser plug-ins for me now because I use the Dmenu script, Dmenu just kind of replaces all of that stuff. But again, I know this is a little nerdy. This is a weird way to manage your passwords and how do you sync from one computer to another? Of course, I store my password store on my next cloud. That way I can log in to my next cloud from any computer and then grab my password store and put it on that computer. If it's a computer that's for me, for example. The only thing is my GPG key. I've got to make sure I take my GPG key with me. I don't have access to it yet. So that's the only kind of inconvenient thing. And I know a lot of you mobile users would hate something like pass. But typically, I mean, when's the last time you entered a password for something on your phone? I never enter passwords for anything on my phone. Typically, when you enter a password on a phone, it saves it anyway. It's the only time you ever need that password. It's different like on an actual computer where I'm constantly being asked for a password. Like every time I go to certain services, it doesn't save it. I have to enter it. And even if it did save it because of how convenient pass is, I don't want it to save my password in the browser, for example. Because pass makes it so easy to quickly retrieve that password just for security reasons. I don't mind going and grabbing it and having to enter it every time I go to some of these sites. So that's just a little bit of an update on my thoughts about using pass now that I've been using it for a while.  What I really like about it is it really does follow the Unix philosophy. Now before I go, I need to thank a few special people. I need to thank the producers of this episode. Apsie Dallas Gay, Blue Mitchell, Sandor Allen, Akami Archvita, 30 Chuck, David the Other, David Dillon, Gregory Lewis, Orion, Paul, Polytech, Scott, Steven Smith, Wes and Willie, a couple of new names there. And I've probably messed up one or two. But I appreciate these guys. These are my highest tiered patrons over on Patreon without these guys. This episode you just watched would not have been possible. The show is also brought to you by each and every one of these ladies and gentlemen as well. These are all my supporters over on Patreon because without you guys, I couldn't do what I do. I don't have any corporate sponsors. I'm sponsored by you guys, the community. If you'd like to help me out, look for DistroTube over on Patreon. All right, guys. Peace.


Just last month, killer whales surrounding a boat sailing through the Strait of Gibraltar were met with loud noises and attempt by the crew to scare them off. The pod rammed the boat continuously for over an hour, managing to remove the rudder. With seawater gushing into the boat, the experienced crew of four issued a mayday call and were eventually towed to shore unharmed. In another recent instance off the coast of Spain, three orcas repeatedly struck a yacht, causing it to sink entirely after Spanish coast guards rescued the crew on board. Well comrades, I'm happy to report some very good news. It seems as if the socialist revolution has finally arrived, but the proletariat isn't rising up and eating the rich. Based orcas, however, are, and you just love to see it. Now this graph, courtesy of PBS News, includes data from a local network of sailors that reported seven sightings and nine attacks in the month of June alone, just in the Strait of Gibraltar. But this isn't a new phenomenon, because as Gizmodo explains, in early May, three orcas took down the Alboran Champagne, a Swiss yacht sailing through the Strait of Gibraltar. All four people who had been aboard the ship were rescued, but the ship wasn't. It was the third boat that orcas had sunk off the Iberian Peninsula in recent years. Just a few weeks later, the whale struck again, this time targeting another yacht, a 66 foot long British vessel called the Beauty of Clyde. This boat didn't sink, but was severely damaged according to the Independent. Both incidents come as part of a string of more than 250 run-ins, in which orcas have appeared to willfully attempt to wreck boats in the region, dating back to 2020. I'm sorry, but can we just pause for a moment? Orcas are targeting gigantic yachts. They are sinking Swiss yachts named Alboran Champagne. It doesn't get any more pretentious than that. And with these details in mind, how could you not root for them? I for one welcome our new orca overlords, and apparently others do too. Jay Buyan Twitter tweeted out solidarity with my orca comrades. Now additionally, Blametag writes, Have you guys seen JK Rowling's $19.2 million yacht? And by you guys, I mean orcas. And people are so stoked about the orca revolution that they even made a song about the orcas. Okay, let's just rate it in a little, okay? I also love the orcas destroying rich people's yachts, but making an entire song about them is a little bit overboard. Terrible. This terrible. But in all seriousness, they're not done harassing rich people, and they're now seemingly targeting American oligarchs, because as Gizmodo continues, on Sunday, a group of researchers surveying the seas from a plane spotted four whales just south of Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard in an area where orca settings are exceedingly rare according to a New York Times report. Elsewhere in New England, a fishing crew noted another orca in Cape Cod Bay near Provincetown, Massachusetts on the same day. But it gets even better because 20 killer whales were spotted off the coast of San Francisco, and I'm going to just assume that they showed up to do reconnaissance against the elites in Silicon Valley. It's the only logical explanation. So it's not just that the orcas have already sunk the yachts for rich people. They are now showing up to locations where we usually don't see them, and I think they're sending a message to these elites elsewhere throughout the world. They're putting them on notice as well, letting them know that their yachts are next. You'll love to see it.  For example, the Atlantic published a piece by bootlicker Jacob Stern, where he claims killer whales are not our friends, stop rooting for the orcas' ramming boats. Now just stop and think for a moment about how propagandized we are in this society, where we're being told that the orcas destroying rich people's boats is not something that we should actively root for. We should be rooting against it. No, I refuse. And the argument that he makes, in my opinion, is downright defamatory, calling these orcas sadistic jerks who quote, torment seal pups as a hobby. Okay, first of all, do some orcas torment seal pups as a hobby? Sure. But maybe the seal pup deserved it. Seal pups have reportedly attacked human swimmers, so maybe those orcas were defending their human comrades. Second of all, if orcas terrorize seal pups so frequently, shouldn't we be thankful that they're now terrorizing rich people instead? Right?  Isn't that a good thing? Shouldn't we be happy that they've decided to direct their ire towards rich people and their yachts? Now, let me just say this article is outright slander, and I refuse to accept such broad generalizations about our excitation comrades. But on a serious note, the question really is, like, what's going on here? Why are these orcas doing this? Are they actually terrorizing rich people? And the truth is, we really don't know for sure. Maybe the orcas red marks, that's one theory. But marine biologists have a number of hypotheses. For example, Gizmodo continues, perhaps as marine mammal biologist Andrew Trites hypothesized to New York Times, the uptick in orca presence is the result of locally rebounding seal and shark numbers, i.e. more orca food, or perhaps something else is going on, referring specifically to the orcas being sighted around the United States. Maybe, as my colleague Linda Kodega has speculated, the whales are organizing. Terrible. Potentially supporting Kodega's thesis, the massive pot of killer whales that were partying it up in Monterey Bay also on Sunday, per a report from The Guardian, about 30 orcas representing 11 different family groups came together off the coast of California to splash, breach, and play.  Though the whales' motives remain murky, some researchers have theorized that the boat aggression is a learned behavior originating with a single female orca named White Gladus. Some headlines have framed the attacks as revenge attempts over a boat collision injury White Gladus may have incurred, though not all marine scientists are convinced. So basically, it's unclear why they're doing this, but I for one have not seen a single scientist explicitly rule out these socialist revolutionary theories. So yeah, take that for what it is. But what is clear, however, is that human socialists have been saying we should eat the rich for years, whereas orca socialists are actually doing it. It's clear which species has actually read Lenin, and I'll leave that there.


Good morning everybody. I do not need to introduce Stefano Sacchioli. He will talk about the X and I'm enjoying this talk Thanks So this is supposed to be above but before going to both I would like to review with you briefly The initiatives we have made in we have created we have initiated in the past one year and a year and a half on the Debian derivatives mailing list to collaborate with the derivatives. So I go very quick quickly quickly to them and then I have some Question for discussion that you can find on gobby. So they are already there So if you are if you have gobby zero five You can go to you can connect to gobby Debian net and then open the DC 11 dash derivatives document So I will put it on screen when I finish and go into the slide So very quickly just first of all a bit of rationale So why I think we should collaborate with derivatives Well, I think that derivatives have changed the way in we create this toe So nowadays there are less and less distribution which are created from scratch and more and more distributions Which are created based on an existing distribution and that is great because the the derivative So the new distro created can focus on customization and the the mother distro the upstream distribution can reach out to a new public And this is both of users who benefit from the work which is done in the upstream distribution But also of potential contributors which can in theory contribute to all the tree of upstream derivatives So Debian is a particularly popular base for derivatives So if you look at these two review sites You will find out that they claim that there is something like 130 active distributions, which are based on Debian I think it's the most derived distribution which exists and I think it is the case for various reason Well and essentially the reasons are that the derivative benefit from all the quality and licensing check We do in Debian they benefit from a huge code base of packages We have something like 30,000 packages in Debian and we have a reputation to be a stable system So that's sort of shield the derivatives from unexpected packages And also we have a philosophy of not being targeted for a specific target user So if you are a derivative who want to target as the system to a specific target Well starting from someone which is supposed to be neutral is actually a good choice So I bothered you with this diagram already in my DPI talk So I won't I will skip it essentially what I'm saying is that The way we distribute software to final users has changed a lot in the past five to ten years We now have several layers several vendors which base their work one on another We have upstream software here on the left We have a first distribution who package their work and as its own users And then we have a downstream of additional derivatives that are bates one on another and at each block in that chain You get new user and potentially use contribute new contributors This is great because every time we add a block Potentially we get new users and your contributors We get free software to more people and we get free software to more eyes Which are able to spot bugs and potentially fix them. So this is great But what I've been telling to the Contributors of several Debian derivatives in the past year here and a half is that I think that we should all make an effort to make all This sustainable Because we should take care that we do not Distribute too much the work we consolidate the work so that we all benefit from the work wherever it is done in that chain So I think the the rational which I've been proposing to people that of course not everybody agrees with But I think that the vision that Debian should propose is that we are all doing a distribution Because we want to improve free software and we want free software to succeed So I'm trying to pass the message that we care more about free software itself Then about the success of a single distribution in that chain So if we if we agree on that vision I think that is the the main reason that it's pretty evident that in that case We should all make an effort that no matter where we put improvement in that chain We should make them flow upstream flow to the left So this for me is the main principle for which we should Collaborate with derivatives and that applies as Debian as it applies to other so if that principle is Worth for other then it's worth also for Debian and it means that we which are often here in this diagram Should really make an effort to push our changes upstream So this is from a universal principle which explains why we should work together with derivatives But also why we should work with our upstream which usually are the original software developers So this is pretty much it for the reason I think we should collaborate with derivatives and then I will go briefly through some of the initiatives Which have we have been create we have created in Debian in the past one year and a half to actually improve collaboration with derivatives So the first one is what we have called the derivatives from desk It started out of a discussion among several Debian and Ubuntu developers at UDSM in May 2010 and the idea of the derivatives from desk, which is something which exists in Debian is Two main purposes the first one is offering a contact point So imagine you are someone working in a derivative and you want to give back your changes to Debian But you don't know how to do that. Maybe because you don't know the How Debian is split in team maybe because you tried but you get someone did not apply to you or anything like this So the idea is to provide a contact point a mail address you can mail saying, okay I'm working on a derivative I have this bunch of changes and I want to give them give them back to Debian How could I do that? Can you help me? So this is the first all a contact point the second role of the derivatives from desk is to actually give a discussion place Where people from derivatives of from Debian can stay together and discuss on how to do collaboration with derivatives and a sort of third reason which is an Intended side effect is that to make emerge in Debian a group of people who care about Collaboration with derivatives and actually are willing to help derivatives in get the code back to that and This is what the idea The the three properties have been you can find them decline in the Well, there is a wiki page. We describe what the derivatives from desk is we have announced it in we are the Debian press There is a mailing list which is Debian derivatives at least Debian org And there is a contact point which is the contact point for external derivatives Which are not necessarily on the list and which is derivatives at Debian org which gets redirected to the mailing list So this is the idea of the derivatives from desk and I think it's been working pretty well So these are some statistics from the from the mailing list. So we are now at something like 180 members of the my reading right? Yes 180 members of the mailing list and it's fairly active So we discussed their values initiative often Every now and then we have a new derivatives popping up saying okay. This is what I'm doing. This is what we do and for every single Presentation introduction mail you get other people suggesting. Okay. This is some easy This is who you can contact in Debian to integrate your work. So I think it's working pretty well This is the first step. So the derivatives from desk a Second step, which is quite recent is what we've called decks for Debian derivatives exchange So the observation which is under which underlies decks is that We seem all to agree that patches should flow upstream We agree that in Debian patches should go and go to upstream and people in derivatives seem to agree that patches should go to Debian But actually that does not often happen often. It does not happen. So why is this the case? So if you look from the side of upstream distribution like Debian You see stuff like I can keep track of patches in so many derivatives. There are just too many So imagine this is a hypothetical maintainer and this is some of the common thought you can find Or you we have maintainer who complains the change you should be made in Debian in the first place Or you have maintainer saying you did it wrong. You did that change. That was not the way I wanted I intended it you should do that in another way and Some of the common thought we you have if you're an upstream you might have if you're an upstream Maintaining an upstream disto is that after all it's not your responsibility You have already enough to start to do and after all you are a volunteer So it's up to the downstream derivative to come to you and do the job of integrating Then if you looked from the point of view of a downstream derivative Well, you have experiences like I tried contacting the maintainer, but they never applied I gave back the patches and they've been lying they've been staying in the BTS for six months without an answer or Well, you know, we have our own problem to solve We cannot solve Debian problem and you see that the basic thoughts are the same if you look from downstream point of view It's not my responsibility. I have enough problems already and you know what I have no time I am a volunteer as well. And so who cares about the upstream distribution. So these are the two different points of view and In fact, I think we need to realize that it's not only Debian problem It's not only downstream problem, but it's actually a common problem So the idea behind that dex was to try doing something different a Bit of history all the idea of dex came out for a discussion among Myself Matt Zimmerman and other Ubuntu people last year at Epcom 10 And it was announced after some discussion on how to do that in March 2011 and the idea is to Create small initiative in which every initiative focus on a given set of patches So, you know that there is this some patches in a specific downstream distribution a specific derivative And you define you clearly define that set of those set of packages and you say, okay I want to merge that in Debian and to do that you have people working together from Debian and from the specific derivative Which is involved it is to have a relatively short projects short live which can be completed For instance in a sprint or maybe in a short time frame like a couple of months and in particular We think that having visible progress So a list of what has been done and a list of what still need to be done is Somehow useful to actually drive initiative to completion So Dex is a generic idea and you might have specific sub team and in particular right now We have only one sub team which is a team of people who cares about the integration among Debian and Ubuntu and focus on closing specific deltas in Among Debian and Ubuntu We've completed a first project within Dex which we called Ubuntu ansian patches actually they have because I didn't contribute much to this So the idea was that there was something like 250 patches in Ubuntu Which those status with respect to Debian was not clear So we didn't know if there were integrated if they were not integrated if they were obsolete with respect to Debian So essentially was a massive review process of these 250 patches which took something like two months I think it's now essentially completed and while going through that we We encountered some well expected issues for instance We encountered maintainers in Debian to which we forwarded the patches and they did not reply So or maybe they say okay We look at the tomorrow and then they don't do that pretty common beer So the idea was okay just use what we know how to use in Debian So NMU delayed NMU 15 days and we integrated a couple of patches this way and we encountered also other cases Which is like Okay, I look at your patch. I want to integrate it But I don't want to do that unless the upstream author in this sense the real sort of developer agrees with that And this is the case in which we have a different judgment call essentially some derivative It's okay. We shipping a patch and some other derivative upstream to that is not okay And this is fair. I mean we should accept the fact that we might have disagreement So the the red part which is still to do is essentially Couple of those cases. So I think it's been pretty a success and an example of how we can do thing And then we have also some resources to drive Dex initiatives we have a GSOC project and Google some of code project by not a handler Mentored by Matt Demerman and essentially is a small Task-oriented interface to see the progress. So you have a I don't have a screenshot because yesterday It was not working given that it's be we are being working on that for the doing the sum of code Which is ongoing right now, but essentially it's a list of things to be done associated to a specific initiative Possibly linked with the Debian BTS the bugs so we can see what are the bug in Debian keeping track of it but enabling you to add additional comments so you can add the comments which are not part of the the BTS like tags or Dex specific comments and It's being in use By for doing the Python 2.7 by default migration, right? Is it correct? Okay, right now and I think it's it's pretty interesting tool and potentially can become a generic tool we use in Debian to actually Do task-oriented initiatives in Debian? So it's not particularly tied to Dex. It can be made way more general than that And finally the third initiative I'd like to mention explicitly is the derivative sensors by Paul Weiss pubs And the idea was to actually have a sensors of the derivatives which exist with some more information than what we have in on this or watch so collecting from specific information about derivatives and In a way that is useful to Debian that in a way that it helps You know developing a relationship among Debian and derivatives and also which enable us to do some sort of quality assurance check Not only on Debian, but on all the derivatives we that participate in the sensors so the sensors is on this page on the wiki and At the moment we are collecting quite some information. So we are collecting for interest web contact points. So a website planet Email contacts or the like we are collecting developer oriented information like version control system Development list pointers to develop a documentation popcorn information and so on and so forth We are collecting sources list line for each distribution, which is in the census There are a couple of clever tricks to ensure that the information is current So for each enter in the census we have the maintainer of the census So who is responsible for keeping the information up to date and we have a timestamp to see how if it's possible out Today the information is possibly out of date or not and you can see the template here Well, I won't change desktop otherwise Only get issues with the beamer, but there is the census templates on the wiki and right now There are 38 derivatives indexed and I think the last one has been added today, right? So it's still pretty active and I think it's a good share of the Existed derivatives in that we have in the sense of and as interesting outcome of collecting the information Well pub cell setting up planet derivatives So we have created a planet which aggregates blog posts coming from the various derivatives We have discovered a couple of fun facts about the derivative logos like that A lot of them are created using non-free software including the Debian one We have seen some logo inheritance So if you look at the tree of derivatives you see that the sub the derivative distribution Often inherit the logo of their absolute distribution So this is fun stuff, but it is the stuff with the kind of stuff you can do when you add information and then some other Useful info that came out of the sensors. It's like we discovered that several derivatives do not ship source packages So I don't think it's out of malice, but simply they probably think it's okay because Debian has the sources But as you know license-wise is not always the case. So this is something we can improve And we for instance we provided some requirement analysis for the LinkedIn developers in how we can best support Distribution-specific checks to having by having different profiles and I'm sure pubs We can tell you more later on if you have more information about the sensors So this is the main initiative you've been going through in the past here in a year and a half And then there are some more coming. So there is a page with derivative guidelines so the idea is To leverage the experience of existing derivative and to explain to new derivatives What should they do if they want to create a Debian derivative? So what are the best practices? What should what should you change for instance to avoid that? Popcorn information goes to someone else to avoid bothering Manteners for bugs exist only in there So all this kind of knowledge which is useful to consolidate in some place and we have been doing that on the derivatives guidelines page There are plans to do integration in the sense of doing sort of Data warehousing in Debian to gather information about all the derivatives So for instance pub has been designing that gather information in UDD in packages Debian org in the PTS in the pass tracker so that it's possible to see from a central place all those information from the derivatives There are idea to integrate that in DD in the DPO and in our medicine as we already do for Ubuntu You know at least for our medicine to integrate it bug tracking system so that we can easily have links from bugs in different distribution which are related and another idea is to actually think about how we can Make debcoff a contact place which is a contact place for all derivatives And maybe even leverage some sponsoring for the rest which are interested in helping out Debian and debcoff All this is pubs powered once more so we might want to ask him for more information So this is it for a brief review of what we have been doing in the past here here in the half our own derivatives and I can leave it here for a discussion and I have a couple of topics. I'd like to discuss with you So one is the sort of philosophical So what do you think it is their role of Debian with respect to derivatives? Should we care? Should we not care and in particular? Should we expect something from the derivative or should they expect something from us? So with all the quotes you can imagine What can we do more to collaborate with derivatives or should we do less and then of course all your Experiences of collaboration with derivatives were they good were they not what can we learn from them in answering that? Please keep in mind that having had a single bad experience Doesn't mean that all the collaboration with that derivative should be bad I'm sure we have all had bad experiences in dealing with Manteners in Debian that doesn't mean that dealing in general with all Debian maintainers is something bad Okay, so please make an effort not to generalize too much and then something we really need is For decks so we often say okay We need to merge changes from derivatives, but when we sit down and look for examples It's not that easy to actually find set of patches which should be merged in Debian So if you have a specific set of patches from derivatives that you want to see merged in Debian Well, we need to learn from you because we want to set up specific initiative on that But finding that the target is not always that easy And finally about the data warehousing idea So imagine we can collect all the information about derivatives in a single central place be it UDT or any other Debian Information place well, how can we leverage this information? What can we do with that to improve quality in Debian in all derivatives? so this is This is it for the introduction and I now leave the word for leave the microphone to you for comments or whatever else Yes in the meantime and The rest can look for people with comments about all this Okay, I'm the deal, but I have two questions from RC one the first is from Kevin If Debian derive distribution scare about the packages they get from us That seems like some concern about our actions and thus maybe they want to have their voice included included in our voting That's what they what maybe they want their voice to be included in our voting That was the first question and the second one from Stuart Prescott Question there looks like there's a very low bus factor in this work Well, pups is the bus factor. So how does tax moves beyond baps power? Well, I leave that to pubs actually so the code that I've written for doing some checks on the census information is available on the alias so anyone can check it out and And work on it and if you care about integration of derivatives into Debian I would definitely welcome your participation in the census stuff Up till now Mostly haven't been pushing my Emails on to the Debian wiki, but I'm working on Doing that so that other people can also do checks on the census information and send out pre-prepared Templates, I mean pre-prepared emails about issues that I have found so far I think it's on the census QA page what I've done so far. I've got to add more emails later But yeah, if anyone wants to help out that'd be awesome Yeah, and regarding the deck specific initiative there the kudos goes mostly to Matt Zimmerman, which has been doing most of the initial design of the idea and also You know driven the the first initiatives we completed anyone else experience to share Suggestion on how to improve collaboration. I have also a question because in the beginning you said Debian is quite neutral this is correct, but Well in the next talk I try to say that we have internal Customization or preparation for derivatives, which could also be helpful and could be enhanced. Yes I mean that's so in general. I think the relationship among blends and derivatives is a very interesting topic. So What do you think have you ever thought about, you know promoting specific derivatives as Debian blends have this ever happened? Yeah I'm not sure. I'm I think the concept of blends is Not back up by so many very good examples So we cannot really tell I would love if there would be even more specific plans and if more examples because Finally either you can this blend just now on your computer if it fits or you can make a very very easy Derivative because everything is single there to you can put your brand on it or some customization Which are for whatever reason not possible in Debian, but in my opinion It makes perfectly sense to to prepare what you want to do inside Debian because it's just less work they don't Okay, I do and Debian person, but this is a more general query right from the from the work you've done on censoring derivatives. Have you worked out? common mechanisms for how people manage their Difference essentially and is there more we should be doing? Within Debian to allow those differences to be pushed upstream You know there's all sorts of mechanism you can imagine and I wonder a what everybody does at the moment and be whether they would As Andrea says whether we should be doing more of that in Debian There's quite a lot of if a bun to if Debian in various packages now So, you know they've managed to shove that upstream But then there's another hundred distros which probably have similar things and we don't really want a hundred if this if that if the other Just in case people don't know about it because it was introduced a year or two ago. There's The Deepakage vendor command these days supports saying whether you're derived from Distribution that's thanks to Raphael Hertz. I believe so if you're So if the intent is to say that anything it anything that is say Ubuntu or best on Ubuntu should behave the same way Then then you can get that swith of derivatives in one go Maybe you should explain a little bit. How does it work? I'm not sure if everyone is familiar with the pkg vendor sure I think it might be best just to refer people to the man page. It's but essentially is a Deepakage tool which can use in white when you build your package to take Different action based in based on which derivative is the packages your package is being built on so you can ever see But that doesn't try to solve your Issue with if this even that but it enables to actually have all the code in the source package Which is as much as stream as possible It allows you to consider sort of the branching structure of derivatives in a slightly more sensible way I will say I'm not sure how many Debian derivatives other than Ubuntu set it up correctly I simply don't know but it at least provides the potential for people to do that Yeah, I mean that's that's exactly the sort of mechanism I met and that's mechanism We've provided to allow those changes to go upstream and the question is how many derivatives does that satisfy? You know and she'll be doing more of that or are in fact different sorts of mechanisms because things don't really fit in The packages in the same way and that's you know, not quite what's needed And I guess you now have a better overview of that than most people And to be honest, I haven't really looked into the The kind of differences that the derivatives make quite yet Probably will start doing that once I have the packages info and UDD and other things And when I start looking at integration of that with the patch tracker divin.org there is some information and about this stuff like D branding Debian in the Derivatives guidelines wiki page Do you know if it mentions the pkg vendor? I don't remember that. I'm not sure But I think in Debian we could we could Be doing a lot more Work on splitting out Debian branding into specific packages instead of being embedded in this in the package Instead so that would mean that we could have a Debian branding package and Ubuntu wouldn't need to ship that or whatever distro wouldn't need to ship that that ship their own branding I Think we could do with quite a bit of work on that as a lot of source packages that have Debian logos or whatever that and then that could be in separate packages like desktop place there are also a very large number of Translatable strings that mentioned specifically Debian I've changed number who's in the past. I knew others have generally trying to make them more generic and less Debian specific It's not always appropriate if you're if you're looking at the string that says Debian installer men menu It's not really appropriate to make that more generic. So and unfortunately, it's rather difficult to Make it to simply substitute in the name because an awful lot of languages Transliterate the name of the distribution and decline it according to their grammatical rules That turns into a bit of a nightmare Well as to the question of wookie whether other distributions were using this whether it's useful. It's immensely useful For the past releases we also completely relied on LSB info. So we had to patch a lot of I think we dropped at least 2,000 patches Simply by switching to a DPK vendor because now we just declare that Debian is our parent is true And so we can just throw away. I think at least 2,000 packages on the other side I only stumbled upon DPK g-vendor by accident when I was patching a completely different package And I notice what's that? Oh, this is cool. We can drop a lot of other stuff. So Well, maybe it was it was just me missing it, but It could possibly use a bit more publicity or or some some guidelines how to do it, right? Just very quick reply. So this kind of gotcha was actually the reason to create the guidelines in the first place It's very new documentation. So I'm not surprised it misses this kind of stuff But maybe if you still have fresh memories of your, you know, bad experiences Oh, I should have known that and they didn't maybe you can check the page and see what is missing Yeah, I would like to chime in exactly on that It'd be great to encourage derivatives to publish their best practice publish how they How they derive from Debian? I have been building countless derivatives for little tiny ones and we have recipes for unattended installation and live CD builds Building from a clean subversion repository with a Debian mirror with no craft on it and all sort of things We've never managed to push them up straight to to make people aware of them I sometimes block them on my blog, but there should be something a bit better and well at the end of the job, we probably Forget to do it because there's a new job coming in so even for decks to be proactive and kind of reach out to people and say, oh you've done that how and And that can become a point of discussion like people can say well, I've done it in the other way That's much more convenient. Oh, yeah, cool. And and eventually you end up with recipes and that practices unfortunately recipes change each new Debian stable because Debian installer gets refactored and so often some of them have to be thrown away Unfortunately, but what can we do with that? But still at least and if Debian knows about these what people are Doing to derive it. Maybe Debian can support it better I reckon if the Debian installer people knew what are the most common recipes people are using they may try to kind of provide a stable API about it Paul you wanted to add something I would I'd like to comment on this Because if you get the drivers to write down how and why they did it In my opinion, not in the main and the main basic there what is but and several small ones They are just doing because you can do it It is a common reason just because it's possible and I think perhaps some some a little bit more Communication that it's possible, but not always the most effective way would get rid of 25% I apologize. I missed Quoting your documentation work you do in Debian blend This is what I mean because It's good to have a derivative. It's quite but but some just create extra work for one or two people So you're making the point of the ego derivative, right? I Already wrote a few notes on the copy document one of them is an enhancement. Maybe of what Eric was saying is We key dot ubuntu.com as a really good good page, which is the Ubuntu for Debian developers Which is really useful for someone that doesn't want that already knows many of the Procedures that can happen in a Debian based distribution and it does only want to know the modification the the diff between Debian and the and the Ubuntu and the derivative distribution workflow and Maybe it would be it would be useful with other distribution at the such documentation as well And also, maybe we should generalize it and Maybe we should generalize it and make a sort of as neutral document as possible. I don't know Sorry And the other thing is that I'd like to see in in our Okay services QA services and so on like pts bts and so on Information about what's going on in in derivatives So I think that it would be useful if derivatives would publish and machine readable List of anything that can be helpful for us to know about them And our services integrate this maybe in other pages if there is too much information to stay in just one page Okay, this can be discussed But anyway, this would be really helpful not to have anything to check 1,000 pages to know Something that is exactly what Paul is working on with the integration stuff. I Thank him for that So on the machine readable part of your question or your comment I chose To do it with the wiki because I think it reduces the barrier to entry of If you if we require people to write some specific machine readable format read documentation and stuff It I think it's too much of a barrier to entry for these people It's a lot easier for them to register on the wiki and edit a template than it is to Do that sort of thing and so the scripts that I've written a flexible enough to read that template and Work with it Yeah, you're doing now some automatic processing based on the templates right correct. Yeah We have some more questions from RC As far as I know the person asking the question is a sedux after seed developer What are the Experiences good or bad between Debian and derivatives Ubuntu and Debian seems to work nicely according to a mediator Does the co-working means mainly to get patches from one to the other distribution? And how can a user get more aware of this text exchange other than reading package change locks? That's a nice question. So I we Do so we do encourage derivatives to for instance Add specific tags user tags to the bts so that we can have for instance a list of Bugs which have been forwarded from derivatives up to Debian and then of course to see what has been you know done I integrate and what has been not but as far as I remember very few derivatives actually do that Ubuntu does that some other are doing that So I think this is part of the you know the stuff we are trying to push forward because Essentially in Debian to be honest. We didn't work much with derivatives before Having discussed that deeply with the Ubuntu people and now we really need to generalize a bit all the stuff We have learned in the relationship with Ubuntu and try to encourage all other derivatives in doing that But up to now we have not been really been you have not been very successful I think in you know promoting good practices to other derivatives Well, I have a question What do people think about our bts being the right tool for this because it's well known that the email is not Necessarily a good tool for everyone. So do people think we need another tool or is it sufficient to force people to use ours? I leave that to the pitchfork of the public For the last question a filipon Unvention we are currently in a transition from Lenny to squeeze and Regarding the decks work. We think we all When we do the switch over we will review all our patches and then go the decks way and send our patches Which are still relevant upstream to Debian? That's great So sorry about your question. Just just a comment. So I think in general in free software We need bridges among bug tracking systems no matter what are they where or communicating one to another So I don't think the real problem is just email because in another system The problem can be that you only fix bugs by committing to a bug a gate branch So I mean there is some sort of impedance mismatch among back talking system And that is I think a more general issue that need to be taken In regards to whether the bts is the right tool for this I feel that as long as Debian has such an email driven culture It makes sense to encourage email tools so that others who want to be involved either Then just be able to continue the conversation when it goes out of the bts or into another Debian for Barre yeah, my name is peter anilson and Two observations first you seem to be arguing that all Patches in derivatives should be sent to Debian But isn't it true that most of them should be sent directly to upstream and not bother Well the intermediates at all and just get it straight into the upstream and Get it to Debian from upstream The other thing I've seen is in my work with the system v in it the packet is it's very useful to check out the The non-debian derivatives as well. I've been patching patches from Red Hat from SUSE from Gento to improve the Debian packages and also to Send them to upstream to make sure that the new version is so used all over the place So we should also for to remember the non-debian Distributions and check out their changes because there is quite a lot of nice changes done there, too Okay, so let me clarify that I think that Everyone in that change should push thing upstream so that's a general principle which holds for us as well So if we receive a change for derivatives, I think it's our duty to push it upstream But in fact the question is how do you want to push it upstream? Do you want to do imagine there you have a chain which is five blocks? Do you want to do all the way block by block or you want to push it directly upstream? And this is a discussion we have had on the Debian derivative is made in this together with the Jorge Castro from from Ubuntu and I think in the wiki page It is me mentioned before there are there is a nice classification of the cases in which you want to push a thing to your Upstream distribution and the cases in which you want to push the change directly to the actual software developer And of course in general it is if it is a packaging change You want to push to your derivative upstream if it is a purely software change You want to push it to the upstream software author But even in this case it get complex because maybe you push a change a software change to the upstream software author But that upstream is not active anymore. It's not reactive So if you do only that it may you know stay there forever and other derivatives do not benefit from it So I think we should agree on the general principle and then there will be cases in which you need to make exceptions In order to have more users possible benefit from the change We have five minutes left. Yeah, just a quick comment on that is We did the back dbn backtracking system is fully opened So we can actually ask our downstreams to report bugs to the dbn BTS and then to forward that to upstream They're like totally autonomous to do so and should yeah, I know what the end is going to say No, no go ahead go ahead Thank you. Well, I don't think there's a one Oh One-size-fits-all answer to these questions in general, you know, if you're a user even and you're submitting a bug where you submit that bug depends so much on How much you know about the program and how much you know about upstream and where? Where is the most efficient and effective place to file that bug and often as a user or a downstream? It will be easier to file the bug to debbing because that gives you a consistent and clear interface on the other hand If you're getting deeply involved with the upstream code You're probably going to have to get familiar with the upstream project anyway And then you will know whether upstream is active whether you need to send the bug to upstream What the right thing to do is and I don't think there's a hard and fast rule You should just do the thing that is in the particular situation the most convenient for everybody very cool wanted to talk about the representation of derivatives in dbn Are existing derivatives all Having one DD among them that knows what happens in Debian and can vote in Debian or if not is That that could be something we could encourage I know that the grandma people applied to DNM process here the comf and I thank them for it And I promise I'll look into it as soon as I have a shred of time but and I will think that could be encouraged because they are doing, you know, technical work in Debian and I know maybe it's yeah, that's quite an interesting discussion, but I think we have never actually had that I think it would be an interesting thing to actually encourage. Yes Okay, so we have one minute left. So it's about time. Go ahead, but just one comment about the suggestion before about their collaboration with non Debian derivatives and non Debian base distros One tool that I find really useful is a program called who has You run who has your package name and then you get a list of links to other distros and Where you can find information about that package in those distros often I found patches and bugs that need to be fixed and and Commented on say a gentoo bug saying that, you know, this is the patch you need to apply for that Yeah, that's a really useful tool. I'm not sure if there are any others, but I'd be interested to hear about Things we could do about making that easier So just one small request given time is up if you have your Pet set of patches in some derivative that you really want to see it in Debian Please show up on the Debian derivative is made in list and mention that because it's very easy to say Oh, you know those distribution are not giving back to Debian But then when it comes down to identifying a set of changes and working together with them to merge it Well in our experience with dexos those far is not that easy to actually identify the targets So your input on that is very welcome Thanks a lot


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The program is an ideal opportunity for me to see and understand the system from inside. To learn about the possible avenues, how to push for a cause. So after finishing this fellowship, I would like to go to my community and I would like to make awareness among them and also I would like to make awareness to my organization where I am working. My plan is to deliver ideas in this program to the activists in my community. To help the government to achieve more goals for Roma issue.


Hi everyone. Today I'd like to talk about the persistent memory plus RDMA, New Age Remote Device. My name is Yang Xiao, I'm a software engineer at Nanjing Fujitsu Nanda in China, and have been working on Linux and related OSs for six years. I became a maintainer of Linux Test Project at the end of 2018. Currently, I'm focusing on persistent memory and RDMA. This is the agenda of my presentation. It includes five parts. I will explain why persistent memory with RDMA, and show new specification of RDMA for remote P-members. Then I will show how to implement a new specification on soft ROC and live IB warps. And then I will introduce remote persistent memory access library. Finally, I will do a conclusion and show our future work. Okay, let me start from why persistent memory with RDMA. What is persistent memory? Persistent memory is a high performance at a better addressable memory device. It resides on the memory bus. P-members is the short form of persistent memory. It has many advantages. For example, data is not volatile after power interruption. It has nearly the same speed and latency of DRUN. It is cheaper than DRUN and provides a larger capacity like SSD. User process can access P-members in four modes. FS-DUX, DV-DUX, Sect, and Role. FS-DUX and DV-DUX are good for improving the performance because they are decided to access P-members directly. Certainly, it's faster to access local P-members in other FS-DUX or DV-DUX mode. However, modern IT systems and services need to transport data from or to remote P-members, such as distributed database, distributed file system, key value store, and so on. Traditional TCP-IP became the performance bottleneck due to a lot of redundant overhand. Look at this figure. For example, copy data between user space and kernel space. Package data by the software TCP-IP stack of operating system. In this case, we need a faster access way to remote P-members. RDMA is a good solution to access remote P-members. RDMA is the short form of remote direct memory access. It is a technology that enables computers in a network to exchange data in the main memory without involving operating system of other computer. It avoids redundant overhand because of its advantages. For example, provide zero copy between kernel space and user space. Bypass the host systems software TCP-IP stack and move data result CPU involvement by the RDMA engine. Is it good enough to access remote P-members by traditional RDMA? Not really. RDMA has two problems for accessing remote P-members. The first problem is no guarantee of data persistency. Look at this figure. Responder returns acknowledge as soon as the RDMA write reaches the remote ONNIC. The return data will be lost when it has not been saved into remote P-members and the remote system is powered down. For data persistency, we need a way to confirm that the data is actually returned to remote P-members. The second problem is no guarantee of data consistency. Two-phase commit is widely used by distributed database. Look at this figure. For example, an application write a probe of data by two-phase commit. Step one, write a probe of data. Step two, mark the data as valued by updating an 8-bit value. Another application can know if the data is valued by reading the 8-bit value. RDMA doesn't provide an API for atomic write yet as step two. So we need a way to update an 8-bit value atomically. There are two ways to solve these problems. The first way is to introduce new specification to extend RDMA. It ends RDMA flush to guarantee data persistency and ends RDMA atomic write to guarantee data consistency. The second way is to make new up-layer library. It not only guarantees the persistency and the consistency of data, but also hence the complacency of RDMA and provides a set of simple API to applications. In addition, it will support new specification in the future. Okay, I will talk about the above solutions and our effort next. Let me show new specification of RDMA for remote P-members. There are two associations to make new specification, IBTA and IETF. IBTA released the V1.5 specification in August 2021. It defined new RDMA operations for remote P-members. IETF relieved a draft in March 2020, but didn't update it anymore. It also defined new RDMA operations for remote P-members. Intel has showed the overview of IBTA's new specification on storage developer conference. Today, I will talk about IBTA's new specification. IBTA's new specification defined new RDMA flush operation. Look at this figure. A new RDMA flush can flush all previous writes or specific memory regions. It guarantees that the data is pushed to global visibility or persistency. It will send the RDMA reader a response with zero size to request after the data has been posted. From both request and responder, the RDMA write and RDMA flush should be handled in order. IBTA's new specification also defined new RDMA atomic write operation. Look at this figure. A new RDMA atomic write can write an allied 8-byte value or atomically. It will send the RDMA read response with zero size to request. After the 8-byte value has been returned. On both request and responder, the RDMA flush and RDMA atomic write should also be handled in order. To support RDMA flush and RDMA atomic write, what must be extended in the stack of RDMA? As shown in the figure below. The whole stack of RDMA needs to be extended to export new operations. Live IBWARP's library provides RDMA API to applications and it has not supported new operations yet. Currently, there is no hardware on NIC and the related driver to support new operations. The next thing I'm going to talk about is how to implement new specification on soft ROC and live IBWARP's. Why use soft ROC? As I said, new specification requires hardware support usually. V1.5 specification has been released, but hardware burdens need time to make new NIC. It may be a long time and we don't want to wait the new NIC. For this reason, we are focusing on soft ROC driver. It is decided to make normal NIC support RDMA. Though it is slower than real NIC, user can experience RDMA easily. Finally, we decided to extend the soft ROC and live IBWARP's. This figure shows the software stack of RDMA based on soft ROC. What is soft ROC? We need to know ROC V2 before introducing soft ROC. ROC V2 is the short form of IP-rootable RDMA overconverged Ethernet. ROC V2 is a network protocol. It can transfer IB transport handle and payload through the traditional Ethernet IP and UDP headers. If packets are formatted by ROC V2, they can be forwarded by TCP IP routers and switches. Soft ROC is software-based ROC V2. It produces IB transport header and inserts it and payload into the UDP header by software. The red figure shows the difference between hardware ROC V2 and soft ROC. Let me talk about how to implement a new RDMA flash process on soft ROC. First of all, both local soft ROC and remote soft ROC handle RDMA write and RDMA flash requests in order. We are investigating how to ensure the order. Secondly, please see the detailed RDMA flash process. Step one, local soft ROC prepares a RDMA flash request packet by the following changes. And the new IB OP code RC RDMA flash OP code in base transport header. And the new flash extended transport header, including selectivity labor and placement tap, specifies the address and list to flash in RDMA extended transport header. Look at this figure. These three headers are modified by step one. The details of selectivity labor and placement tap are displayed on the right. Step two, local soft ROC sends the RDMA flash request packet over UDP. Step three, remote soft ROC accepts the RDMA flash request packet, and the flash is the specified range into DRAM, OP member by several CPU instructions. Step four, remote soft ROC prepares a RDMA flash responder packet by the following changes. Use IB OP code RC RDMA read the response only OP code in base transport header. Set arc or knock in arc extended transport header. Look at this figure. These two headers are modified by step four. Step five, remote soft ROC sends the RDMA flash response packet over UDP. Step six, local soft ROC accepts RDMA flash response packet and generates the corresponding completion. Let me continue to talk about how to implement a new RDMA atomic write process on soft ROC. Firstly, both local soft ROC and the remote soft ROC handle RDMA flash and RDMA atomic write requests in order. We are also investigating how to ensure the order. Secondly, please see the detailed RDMA atomic write process. Step one, local soft ROC prepares a RDMA atomic write request packet by the following changes, and the new IB OP code RC RDMA atomic write OP code in base transport header. Specify the address and the length to atomic write in RDMA extended transport header. Corporate an allied 8-bed payload. Look at this figure. These two hands and this payload are modified by step one. Step two, local soft ROC sends the RDMA atomic write request packet over UDP. Step three, remote soft ROC accepts RDMA atomic write request packet and writes the 8-bed payload atomically. Step four, remote soft ROC prepares a RDMA atomic write response packet by the following changes. Use IB OP code RC RDMA read response only OP code in base transport header. Set arc or knock in arc extended transport header. Look at this figure. These two hands are modified by step four. Step five, remote soft ROC sends the RDMA atomic write response packet over UDP. Step six, local soft ROC accepts the RDMA atomic write response packet and generates the corresponding completion. Okay. Let's go on to the next. How to implement new RDMA flash API on live IB words. To support RDMA flash in IBV process send. We define the new IBV WR RDMA flash OP code to identify a flash operation. And the new structure flash to transfer the information required by the flash operation. To support RDMA flash in IBV policy queue. We define the new IBV WC RDMA flash OP code to identify a complete flash operation. The following code shows how applications use RDMA flash API. For example, post RDMA flash request by IBV process send. Get the completion of RDMA flash by IBV policy queue. How to implement a new RDMA atomic write API on live IB words. To support RDMA atomic write in IBV process send. We define the new IBV WR RDMA atomic write OP code. To identify an atomic write operation and take use of structure RDMA to transfer the information required by the atomic write operation. To support RDMA atomic write in IBV policy queue. We define the new IBV WC RDMA atomic write OP code to identify a complete atomic write operation. The following code also shows how applications use RDMA atomic write API. For example, post RDMA atomic write request by IBV process send. Get the completion of RDMA atomic write by IBV policy queue. New RDMA operations are under development. Is there any available solution? Remote persistent memory access library is an available solution. What is a remote persistent memory access library? It is a new library to access remote P member over RDMA. Lib RPMA is the short form of remote persistent memory access library. Lib RPMA provides a complete set of API for applications to access remote P member. Like RPMA send, RPMA receive and RPMA write and so on. It has RPMA flash to flash the previous write into remote P member. It also has RPMA atomic write to mark the previous write value of the atomically. After the previous RPMA flash has been completed. It will support new RDMA operations when they are available. Inter and FDITS are main contributors to Lib RPMA. Let's look at the basic API of Lib RPMA. I will explain the functions of some Lib RPMA API. For memory management. We can register memory region by RPMA MR rig and the register memory region by RPMA MR rig. For connection management. We can create a new outgoing connection request by RPMA call rig new. And return an incoming connection request by RPMA EP next call rig. For messaging, we can send data to remote side by RPMA send and receive data from remote side by RPMA receive. For remote P member access. We can write data to remote P member by RPMA write flash data into remote P member by RPMA flash. And write it back value to remote P member atomic by RPMA write atomic. In Lib RPMA community, there are 11 examples to show how to use various Lib RPMA API together. Let's look at the example 05 flash to persistent for details. Look at this example. Client uses DRUM to register memory region by RPMA MR rig. Server uses P member to register memory region by RPMA MR rig. They are established connection and exchange private data by several RPMA call functions. With the connection. Client can transfer data to remote P member by RPMA write and RPMA flash. Currently, flash and atomic write is not supported by RDMA. So how does Lib RPMA implement them? How to implement RPMA flash operation? Lib RPMA implemented RPMA flash by traditional RDMA read. Look at this figure. Request sends a RDMA read as a RPMA flash. The RDMA read waits the completion of previous write automatically. The RDMA read flashes all return data from RNIC to the remote P member before reading the data from the remote P member. This way is called as a place persistency method. How to implement RPMA atomic write operation? Lib RPMA implemented RPMA atomic write by traditional RDMA write with aligned 8-batt value. Look at this figure. Request sends a RDMA read with aligned 8-batt value and a fast flag as a RPMA atomic write. The RDMA read waits the completion of previous flash, bends a fast flag and then writes the value. The RDMA write needs to be flashed to remote P member as well. Unfortunately, the RDMA write has to wait all previous read due to the fast flag. One more necessary consideration for RPMA flash operation. InterDDL is a key feature introduced on the InterZone E5 Professor and InterZone E7 Professor V2. As the InterZ document mentions, DDL makes the Professor cache the primary destination and source of IO data rather than main memory, helping to deliver increased bandwidth, lower latency and reduce power consumption. With DDIO, traditional RPMA flash using RDMA read can only flash data to the last level cache of CPU. So remote applications need to dream the data to P member by themselves. RPMA flash has to consider DDIO how to implement RPMA flash operation with DDIO. In this case, live RPMA implemented RPMA flash by traditional RDMA send and RDMA receive. Look at this figure. Request passes the address and reach to flash to respond by a RDMA send. The RDMA send with the completion of a previous write automatically and send flash to return data from ANIC to LLC. LLC is the last level cache of CPU. Responder flash or return data from LLC to P member according to the context received. Responder notified the request that the data had been returned into P member by another RDMA send. This way is called as general purpose server persistency method. Live RPMA is an up-layer library, so we would like to know how the performance of live RPMA is. How to evaluate the performance of live RPMA. Live RPMA introduced the live RPMA dedicated engine to FIO so that we can use FIO to do the performance test on our environment. FIO is a benchmark to test the IO performance. The table on the left shows common configuration of our environment. The example on the right shows the detailed steps to run the FIO benchmark on our environment. For example, client needs to build the latest FL including live RPMA engine. And reference is simple job files to create a new job file for the live RPMA client. And then run FL with the client's job file. Server needs to do the similar steps. By FL benchmark, we got the bandwidth and latency of remote P member access based on live RPMA and source of local P member access. As shown in the tables below, compared with local P member access, the performance of remote P member access is slightly worse. But I think live RPMA is still the best solution to access remote P member and it may provide a higher performance in the future. At the end, I want to do a conclusion and show our future work. In this presentation, I explained why P member with RDMA and show the new specification of RDMA for remote P member. Then I showed how to implement new RDMA operations on soft ROC and live IP works. And then I introduced the live RPMA. In the future, we will finish implementing new RDMA operations on soft ROC and live IP works. And then push them into the kernel and RDMA core. We will make live RPMA support new RDMA operations. Finally, thank you for listening to my presentation. Please contact me by email if you have any question about this slide. Thanks a lot.