introduction so this the goal of this demo is to show how easy it is but if you have a hardware then we can make a workshop in hackerspace that will take more time we can answer questions we can make sure that your small projects work and for these small projects the first question is what kind of hardware you want to have probably want something like this this is so-called Papillio we can see on the web page it it is pretty easy to buy it's actually popular you can buy something like this from sorry yeah I always make this mistake it's just one hell yes on this web page gadget factory it's basically simple Spartan board with shields I would recommend either Oberon project shield which basically has the VGA output and two ps ports so you can connect your peripherals it also has the mass storage so you can do most of the small projects yeah or logic start shield this is the example of logic start shield you have switches you have leds you have seven segment display you also have VGA and you have audio which is pretty practical also you have alternative way of connecting power there is also the third shield that you may want to have this is the so-called gaming shield that has VGA and two slots that look just like VGA they are actually joystick slots and that would be the best I would probably start with our Barrel Shield but as I will tell you in a minute as long as you have the right socket you can do everything if not you just need a extra connector that converts the pins to your socket yeah and that would be as for hardware so I would recommend either Spartan 6 so Papillio Pro probably this is Papillio just small Papillio one very practical for small projects but it doesn't have its own memory so it okay it has memory but it has like 40 kilobytes and the Papillio Pro has one megabyte so if you think about visual projects or gaming projects this is enough to have a mono display for example but if you want to have like color VGA resolution or HD HD resolution that would be already about one meg would be taken just for the display memory that is that is important also the common thing with FPGA is that you have two or three bits for each color here so you can count that that you need this at least frame buffer memory that that's really bare minimum and let's use the character generator but then the character memory will take some and it's of course mono program so now the hardware considerations are after us the next step is of course really visiting depending whether you'll have Zlinks or Altera FPGA these are two most popular producers yeah so depending of which one you need to visit either Altera.com web page or Zlinks.com web page and download the software I have the software already installed you basically need to download so-called ISE webpack from for Zlinks and Starter edition of the software for Altera these are kind of free editions so they are limited to working only on the producers devices and they are licensed for all the producers devices so that should not be a problem this is the bare minimum for the low end FPGA is completely sufficient and now I will show what happens when you download it already so this is Quartus so maybe I will start from I will switch off the pin planner because that's a bit ahead of what we are going to do yeah and it works on Linux yes the thing is there is a Linux version of all this software for these major producers and Windows versions okay even for Diamond or Lattice there is a Linux version but the problem with Lattice is that you have special to have special red cap version for it to work and it's pretty old so I would recommend either Zlinks or Altera software works on as far as I know like most platforms one most popular two most popular platforms maybe not on Mac but that's the only difficulty but you can have the parallel desktop with Linux it will also work because the only way it contacts the hardware is USB yeah and then when you start Altera Quartus you see the display like this the first step that you need to do is to create a new project not sure is it enough resolution everybody see it okay so I didn't need to zoom it so you create new Quartus project and then we call this a tutorial project and there are two important things this name is usually the same as this name and this name you need to remember because it has to be also the name of the top level entity in the project I will tell about it in a moment and we don't use existing project settings because I want to guide you through few things that are usually difficult because then everything else is simple so you create a directory it's very similar to Zlinks but I will also do it with Zlinks in a minute so something happened it's kind of slower than usual maybe I should just close the software so in case it is slow the the beginning projects are very small so we can just kill the software nothing bad happens so it's really robust so usually it installs in Opt Altera or of the Zlinks and you just need to call it from this the directory yeah and it started oh this is the Zlinks version so okay we have a new project okay we can also start it with this wizard so new project as I said this is the important part now we create the directory no now we create an empty project and we don't add the files we will add them later now is the most important part so the first thing you need to check is on the chip you have the code and this as opposed to other chips all the numbers here are important so I will show the two examples of chips so maybe in the camera if isn't visible the marking and here so this and this here they have a special code that we will use in a minute so whenever you have development for sometimes if it's say Altera or Zlinks development board you will have a tutorial that tells you what to choose but here you just need to copy this number in my case I know that it's EP4 now CE6 and now it will be E22C8 that's the beginning that's actually one of the most difficult things why because now we select the voltage now select the number of ios and pins now you set the arrangement of the banks and if you select the wrong device and you compile your project it will upload it will connect random things to other things or it will not upload at all so that that's a critical part so now I select this device have some problem with this actually no it works here yes and now is the the the things that is best to keep at the normal settings it just allows you to change the compiler and so on so I would not recommend to change it here it should now display the cyclone 4e the kind of device also other things that are probably not that important so now the compiler knows which device we target and the next thing is to add the source file for VHDL and it's also pretty simple you just add the VHDL source file say I have one prepared actually it's a very simple file here in the lead blink so how this file looks like it's basically VHDL code if you google for VHDL tutorial it will tell you everything about the language it has normal imports usually you import the i stuff because it's the standard types and declarations second is declaration of the inputs and outputs of your entity or your module in this case it's logic vector 1 of 8 bits both switches that are inputs and less that are outputs so this corresponds to what we see in on this board here we have four switches but I can always connect the pin to something that doesn't exist and hopefully nothing will happen as long as the voltage doesn't exceed this denominator voltage that is accepted and here we will say that depending on the state of the switch we will set first four LEDs and the second four LEDs we will set to zero so we don't care about four LEDs that much so this is very easy to to program and whenever you program it and you add this file to the project so we add it to the project we have to click add okay we have added the file the the only problem is that we need to rename the entity here to new project so that it's consistent with our project name okay that would be all now we are able to compile our project or should be able to compile it so now we can start compilation and the next most important thing is twofold so either we try to implement it directly in hardware and this is also the same in Zlinks and Altaira we have to oh there is some oh so I probably have another file that also specifies new project so I need to properly let bling VHD to the project directory and just keep it there and besides that yeah I should be okay so that was VGA tutorial a new project yes it probably generated another file that that was responsible for this so when we make this compile basically because I have only five minutes I need to to skip this this part of checking we need to assign the pins so in Altaira it's pretty simple because there is a graphical pin planner that has the pin numbers that correspond to the pins here and we just assign the pins to the names that are used in the VHDL top level project in Zlinks it's a bit different because we have so-called QCF file and the Constraints file yeah so if we look I have another project here and that's actually put in here there is also the CSV version but I didn't use it here it generated the whole general documentation here QCF sorry and that's the file that you should actually usually get as a template from your board manufacturer so that you know what is connected where basically in this case I got it here in this way and it defines basically which pin name corresponds to which name so on the left you have the clock rx receiving tx transmitting serial is set seven is seven segments display anode dot point and so on then lock is the pin name and then also there is an option of IO standard or period for the clock so basically options of how to treat these pins sometimes so usually FPGA have few sets of pins that are so-called IO banks and each IO bank can be used for either low voltage TTL sometimes also high voltage TTL so normal TTL and you can also modify the behavior of the slew so how is the edge detected so that the voltage races and the drive in this case selects a how strong it is the pin is driven when it's output of course you can also select the pin to be in out and then depending of whether you mark it in or out you will be able to to drive it as output and as input of course in this case beware do not set it as input and output at the same time yeah then the second thing is simulation so basically for each of your projects besides pin planner where you assign the names of pins you are able to run the simulation tools after compilation here it's RTL simulation in case of zilinx and i think in this case i will show the simulation in zilinx so this is actually a project where i added added few files already i created empty project added few files and selected the target zilinx device also from these numbers the same way and then i can run the simulation in zilinx tool the simulations are here as processes so basically you can click what you want it to generate here it would be generating programming file for the device and simulation tool is here then it should run other program that is just simulated because now we have we need to simulate explicitly switch the mode in zilinx in Altair i will just launch the simulation tool here we have either a selection of implementation mode or simulation mode okay i'm i'm finishing here when when you when you select certain time in my case this is a example vga controller like 100 microsecond and you run it for this hydrant microseconds you will see how the states of the outputs change you can also have a separate program that tells which inputs are set in what way so you can simulate what is on the pin pins that are outputs depending on what you set on the pins that are in input and that's the basically the whole philosophy besides knowing the language of ebhdl or varilog or clash whatever you prefer as an implementation language yeah so we simulate because some kinds of the programs basically work too fast in in case of vga the the step here is like the whole frame is generated for approximately i think 10 milliseconds and that's the the whole display so each pixel is generated for few or tens of microseconds so it's very hard to debug without simulation tool yeah that's also true for the most protocols if you write something to flash memory or read something from ram you need to do it pretty fast so you you check it in simulation tool that the pins the digital data is set appropriately or you directly go to the device and then you can see the LEDs but maybe you it's hard to see if they would change very quickly so the the first mistake that people usually do is setting the clock in a property but if you have your manufacturer's constraint file that settled the issue that's the the only thing that i would not have time to demonstrate but if somebody comes for a workshop session i will show you basically how you set the clock both in in quartus and in alteras tool and in in zilinx tool so you basically need to know your crystal frequency on board in this case i think it's 25 megahertz in this case this is 32 megahertz you set it in the in the tool and then whenever you want to wait for one second you also set the constant in your vhgl file to be 32 megahertz so 32 millions basically or if you have more accurate the crystal then it will be an appropriate power of two that is closest to 32 megahertz that would be all now time for questions say about the price of those boards yeah we may indicate you know it's not so this is for this one was uh i think $70 yeah the she was actually the red one i bought it from 12 gig for $70 this with shipment from china i i got i got a stock of chinese marked boards that are initially a little bit hard to work off because it's hard to obtain the pinout this is only a non-standard thing with with such a board but if you obtain the pdf with a pinout and if you decipher the Chinese it's actually very cheap board it was $66 with shipment and this board actually has not only the the cyclone itself which is a bit more powerful than this one because for example it has programmable cogs that you can change and a bit more of connectors which i i said i said for the hobbyist and for the initial experimentation it's very useful to have ps2 to have vga so i suppose the without the price would be 40 sink dollars that's what i think we'll go for one more question but where is the ngs maybe you can start studying so i can answer a question and yeah then you can set up while uh so uh rafim arvina could you talk a little bit about fpga group that we are also trying to start off okay so we created the group of facebook uh fpga so we will try to meet once a month the same basically the session and create some workshop slash introduction so basically introducing how to program fpga if people are interested to bring something on top of those boards with specific interface learning how to program to drive an lcd to some analog measurement sound synthesis and because those boards have also lga and hmi is to create some graphics etc etc so the first few sessions will be probably just to introduce vhgl or very lot and the first session you know exactly the format but people can come with a laptop install the tool and just simulate because we don't need really the hardware to to be too much we can also import an image into the tools using the vhgl code simulate what would be the results then the image is basically created because we can input and out export also the data so there could be some sessions where it's only a programming exercise without any hardware then later we can have more uh involved depending on the interest of people and i mean if you have done a vhgl and fpga school so maybe some of us were already done


Hello, welcome to Toffy TV. We're just going to have a chat about the season so far and everything that encompasses it, cos obviously everything don't have a game for a few weeks, so we're just going to use this period to breathe and assess and reflect on what has gone on. You've got John Blame, you've got Dave Murray and you've got the other end like Buckhens. Why wouldn't you? Surely one each side if it's Buckhens. Well, yeah, but in and of it, no, in and of it, well, the Buckhens has just been put together here but we just don't organise ends. Unorganised, yeah. See what you're doing. We don't have books. With the whole club, the whole club. Just have an empty shelf with all the webs on it. Dave, we are sat here in March, it's been a quiet calm season. Nothing much going on. Let's do the playing side first, cos obviously Everton right now are in a relegation battle again, year three on the run. This one feels a bit different cos other things have made the situation a bit worse than what it is, but not winning a game for nearly four months is an issue any season. But just overall, excuse me, overall, have you found the season on the pitch? Certainly up to Christmas. OK. All right. Yeah. I thought, let's segment the army, so let's not talk about the pitch stuff just yet. But I thought we played not on the front foot, but certainly with an intensity and we were in a lot of games. Villar, obviously the outlier. And then Wolves was after that one, it was after Christmas really. And it wanted us to be competitive. So at the start of the season I said 11-14. Just to have a nice season of no stress. I still think that's attainable, but obviously we've gone three months without a win. So now we're in a position where the players just look shattered. I'm hoping this little break gives a boost, refresh, bit of tight downtime. There won't be much downtime with the way he runs his ship. I think he's contributed to that with lack of subs, the right back situation. I think they're the two for me that have really delayed that momentum that we got with them four wins just before Christmas. And now we're in, this is 11-11. It could be 30 by the next time we play at home, which over some barely becomes a massive game. Which it is anyway when you've only won three home games all season, which is appalling. But he said, well, you know, other managers have gone there. I know we have a bit of debate over it, but just a home form. And it's been shocking for a while now. I said to you when the first cornering feels like the club's got long COVID. But you can't be saying that for 30 years. Just on the other two outliers that you would sort of do the two. So we call them flags, shall we call them? Red flags. The substitutions and the right back situation. We start with the right back situation. Who is probably the position that we've got most players in? It seems, doesn't it, right now? So who would you opt for? Patterson. Would you just go with it? And only because Seamus is getting to that. He can't play every game. He certainly can't play every week. So just put Patterson there. And a lot of teams play, you know, had the difference of opinion nearly about flying fullbacks. A lot of teams only play with one flying fullback and, you know, play an inverted centre back. You know, Micho could be that inverted left back if you like. Or certainly just stay this side of the halfway line where he's most comfortable and just let Patterson bomb on. And it gives you that overlap around the outside because Jack Allison, like him, but he runs in a straight line. And then he just gets out of numbers because we just don't have enough overlaps or extra bodies around the pitch. We don't create them overloads. That's the way that I was looking for. And I think that the right back one needs to fix because it just gives you that extra body, that extra, and he can cross it. He's got a couple of assists. That one early in the season. A chef who united for the Danjum sticks out but he's done that a couple of times and we've knockered on the end of it. And he can't defend because he's not asked to defend in playing for ages or Celtic. You know. So work with what you've got. And we don't. On that, John, with Patterson, do you think we might have seen a... He's not at the same level, but do you think we might have seen a brand-wide situation with Patterson if the manager would have just gone on playing you every week and therefore grow into that position rather than... You should use... Patterson's only really got a going. The others have been injured, whether it be Ashley Young, whether it be Seamus Coleman. I'm not saying he's been great when he's played, but he's never felt like it's his position to lose. What do you think? It's philosophical, I think, from the manager's perspective. Right. I think the manager sees him as a kid who can't defend. And therefore, the manager, in my view, and with you, is totally out-of-kill to what goes on in modern football and Premier League where, actually, you look at your... Whether the call fullbacks or not, it doesn't matter, does it? But you look at your fullbacks and you say, what's the... In an ideal world, the greater attacking and the greater defending, but that doesn't happen very often though. Right? So if you make a decision, most managers favour football... Footballers who are fullbacks, who can attack. When you look at the attributes that they need, it's about athleticism, it's about pace, it's probably about a bit of height as well. So being taller fullbacks are on the old shows his guy and the team as the fullbacks sort of thing. So with that in mind, this manager just gets it wrong straight away because he's looking at the defensive attribute of the player more tender than Paterson, so I'll play him. Almost becomes I'll play anyone except Paterson. And he's wrong, I think. I think he's wrong. Your question is, would he have developed over the last 15, 20 games or whatever it is, if he was having to play in the team, which does defend, plays to a tight system as well? Yeah, of course he would. Of course he would. A manager has to be measured on whether he makes the best of the resources he's got and does he make some of those resources better. Now if the claim that Michel Enco's improvement at the other end, which is a default defender who's laid to get forward a bit, and if the manager wants to take the claim for that, and I'm with you by the way, the idea that you'd have two flying fullbacks is great if you have the luxury, but they don't do they? Most teams don't have that. They have one who can get forward with pace, athleticism, whatever. Two players who can do that. One's Seamus Coleman, as you say, is better, he's a behind him if you will. And the other one's Patterson. Everyone else is a defensive fudge. That's all it is in my view. And Michel would look brilliant, I think, and he's already going to likely end up as player this season because he's best of a bad bunch almost. Where he's a defensive minded fullback who can tuck in as a centreback and then that gives the manager flexibility by there's four at the back or there's three at the back. That then gives you potential. You almost end up with a spare player, don't you? You say, ooh, who can I have as that player? And I just think managers missed a trick big style by not persevering, coached a kid, telling me you're going to play.  Why am I here? My career's going wobble, wobble, wobble. What happens if he doesn't get a will, of course, but what happens if he doesn't go to the Euro simply because he's not had game time?  What happens if he goes to the Euro and looks great in a Scottish game? The buying wanted him, didn't he? Yeah, they're not daft. But again, when we talked about the whole form. So the last time we'd either got to this late in the season in my mind was 2012. We played City, beat City 1-0 and Darren Gibson scored. That was our fourth home win. Then he bought Yelavitch. I think he got Darren Gibson landing down. That was on January 30. That's what I mean, but what I'm saying is they got a boost. We haven't got anyone in January because of what's going on. We haven't been able to get that boost. So you need to change it somehow internally because there's not a lot of coaching here. I think you're right, mate. The other thing that Patterson has missed out on is spending all that game time on a field with Tarkovsky to the left of him. He's a good talker. He's a good coach on field with players next to him. Earlier on in the season particularly a few games Patterson did get. He was non-stop talking to him because you learn what you're doing wrong in the real life situation. The manager and his coaching staff can say what they want but once you're on the field you need the old hand to come up and say don't worry about that. You know, and so on. I don't think... Just before you do, I was just going to say that game managers do that. You played it, if you remember, Hibbert played it. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, he did. That was a transient play change. I'm saying that managers will resort to a default to get them out of the situation and usually it's experience. Isn't it? No, it is but... Patterson is an attacking man. I know he's not amazing defensively but then you've got five days a week or four days a week to help him with that when you're training. That's the only idea of the trainer. What would you do with Patterson or do you understand why the manager doesn't play him? I understand why he doesn't play him. He doesn't play him because for all the reasons you said because he can't defend. He doesn't want anyone to go forward. He doesn't want, it's a mindset. He doesn't want fullbacks to go forward. That's just the mindset of the man, isn't he? He's got a centre back playing there for a reason because he wants a fullback who's big, strong, fast and can get about the pitch but he doesn't really want anyone else to attack. It's just fact, I mean. I'd love Patterson to play. I've said loads of times as much as everyone loves Michel Encol I wouldn't have many way name I have in team if I had the choice of Luca Dean or him. Do you know what I mean if we had... I wouldn't have Michel Encol. He doesn't bring you this season but he's almost like the shining example of where we've gone wrong as a football club. It's a player who just can defend in an age where you want your fullbacks to attack and you're absolutely right you do only have generally won them. You'd have to have both sides in your squad though. You'd only have won, don't you, in the other... He's a centre back. He's a big Ukraine and... He's like Hibbut, he's not an issue but he's a glaring example of where we are as a football club and we had it with Tony Hibbut. And then Seamus Coleman coming and everyone went, oh my god, because Seamus Coleman went the other way and therefore we put teams on the back foot and I think the man had said, Carlo, don't it when he's coming? Carlo had Seamus Coleman sitting in as the right centre back and Luca Dean pushing high and then if Seamus went forward Dean had to sit in and he remember when clop was talking about anti-lots because he had their number and he had clops number all the time and he said it was that deep of doom that Liverpool couldn't get to grips with the fact that the fullback when he played was like a left winger because it meant three and he'd try and make it lopsided to catch them all. When you say it, don't you use an example you talk about coaching, you know Trent Hollies and Ronald cannot defend but he is what he is and we're getting assistant to work around that when Newcastle, Dan Byrne, we're trickier on the other side, you know you come down as the example With that in mind what about the third back then where Patterson can be the right wing back because he plays there for Scotland and where it's obviously Michael Enkel then could sit and be the third centre back with the left foot and then you could have the entire koski and you've got the three The only worry with that is where I don't think Tarkovsky is best suited as one of them one of them outside roles he's got to be the middle one and then where do you put Branthwyth so then Michael Enkel so Michael Enkel's idea left wing back all is up and you've got to make you've got to change it because then you could add McNeill and you can play on the left and Patterson but he's an option and he's a body but Young's also a right side of the wing back so you've got what I'm saying is if you add the three and it was Patterson and McNeill to start you've got two changes on either side you've got Jack, Patterson, Michael Enkel to replace them then you could have two up front that's the spare player it's probably the most place where we've got let's use the word competent by now around the pitch and we haven't seen others and he creates them options if you go into a three in midfield Garner or Addrissa can come in the core I can go out and it keeps that freshness around the left or the core I can play in the three with them and Beto's getting more of a run before people write them off after 200 minutes but you've also then got an option of Chimity to go on the long side or Dan Duma when he's fit he wants to play through the middle but you can only really play through the middle if you've got a big fella with him so we're turning this into do we play four or three at the back we've hit a brick wall we've hit a brick wall it'll be almost four months since our last win next time we play a game so this is a chance I think for ten games for the manager to go we've got a ten game season now do we do something different or do we keep just going four for one I agree with the difference but is it moving from a difference in trying to make the right back more expansive or is it a difference changing the structure because with this stubborn manager it's almost like if he can't make a change then take out Godfrey and put in Patterson he's not going to make a change to three either is he the last win he did change it to a three a Burnley didn't he and Thor Patterson was really good that day he was excellent they should have had a goal from it but that is my point is the decision he needs to make is to put Patterson in the team which becomes a three in certain phases of the game his defensive attributes are less important most teams don't play like city do or the RS do there are multiple players up front it's normally one and one off we're three really competent centre backs should be able to cope do you agree with this that's one of our best performances away from home this season I think Burnley was one of the only places where we've actually played three for a very long time where the wing backs were aggressively high and that's normally it just ends up being a five doesn't it? against Burnley we were really aggressive Patterson was getting really high up the pitch and Harrison was going inside and obviously Dwight McNeill was on the left and it really worked that night because of the opposite but it was because we were aggressive we sure as played five on the lampard and there always ended up being five didn't it and that's maybe where he worries is that if you play a five and you aren't brave you ended up just sitting on the edge of your box and allowing the team to just get round the box because that's all happened with the lampard wasn't it well I think that's what I touched on when you first started about that intensity has dropped since Christmas so if you're going to play it's almost three five to isn't it there has to be aggressive it has to be aggressive and intense but what's our biggest but I mean Sean Diter's managerial career is at something like 0.83 goals per game he's got less goals than games manager which just blows my mind but that's where he is this evidence seems the third lowest score in the Premier League okay we can go on a bar under performing XG we should have 12.5 I keep saying it I don't know where the half goal comes from but we should have 12.5 more goals than we've got but we're in we're almost in April next time we play so that you can moan about that XG in August, September and think it'll start at 10 and when it does it's fine so what I'm saying is we've only got 29 goals so far this season and half of them when you were talking about be more than half so if we did go to creating a bit more intensity higher up on another striker maybe with you know whether it be Dan Geumet, Dom, Beto, Chimity one of them for if you like wouldn't that give us a better opportunity to score on goals which might win us games a lot of the times whoever it is up top become isolated Dom's hold a play very good Beto a little bit more raw certainly a threat cos he can put it about a bit more and actually the football we've played has been better with him in the team which is bizarre to me it's almost having two different style of plays for whoever your front man is which is crazy and I don't think Dom could probably play the same way they do win Beto's in the team but anyway so they've got to mix it up somehow and the change for me is it comes on that almost you're saying your right back's going to fix your sees but isn't he giving you an extra attack an option oh yeah of course but what I'm saying is your right back whoever it is or your full back shouldn't define how you then go out and try and get points in this league for all that robustness and the energy it's created which is dipped but it's the nature of how you play isn't it and that's almost like what we're saying about Patterson is he changes the nature of how we play our game instead of having a centreback or a 38 year old or a 34 year old Patterson you know the nature of the team is going to be to go forward it's whether we trust the team enough to do it and you're very much saying we're going to play defensively from the start but where's it truly got us being defensive this season hasn't got us anyway his percentage isn't it so his percentage will be you get so many points yeah that's how he works you win and you draw half your games that's what he wants doesn't he which I understand the situation that we're in creates an area of complexity about it about the style and everything but but it's just been negative isn't it it's just been negative isn't it you fall back on the defensive structure and all of a sudden the mistakes are going to creep in whether that's Pickford, whether that's Tarkovsky whether that's Godfrey, Mark and Neil you've almost got to be done and you can't be haven't you know you've got to be perfect like Saturday at Old Trafford you had to be perfect defensively two defensive mistakes, the plan's under two penalties and we're 2-0 now we're actually doing okay here, we're getting bit 2-0 that's what I mean there's like no roof back and I said this on Saturday for anyone who was watching the thing we don't know what to do today we've lost the game but in isolation I keep saying this in isolation that United game wasn't an issue you just go most games in isolation we don't know what to do Westam we've played well worse than we have against Westam but we were winning 1-0 a bit less than 20 minutes to go so in isolation it's okay but when it's in a run that's continuing and continuing and continuing that's where I'm worried we've got to be 3-1 against Westam but we've won 2 of the last 6 I just go you'd be ffium and going bad defender now stupid defeat but you're accepting there aren't many games this season that we've been sitting away never leave the table on them walls away feel it away so 4 games out of 28 every other game that we've lost or maybe drew has been grand dog day and the chances should have won actually is great we've seen it in the last minute at the park end so he deserves a lot of credit the strikers to death that's it he deserves a lot of credit it's full of robust and there's no doubt at the moment but then the other end it's a whole pack and I'm not saying you're wrong cos he has created a strong will he's more robust but are we looking at that or are we looking at the lampard and Benita's on 59 points we'll just go with the previous manager the Christmas no, no, listen we went 4th in March when we beat West Brom 1 we were 4th that day and then people played after us and went back above us but we were 4th and we only had to win 3 games to qualify for Europe in 10 out of 10 and that was in remember we played Newcastle at home and he decided to change the centre backs and we got beat 2-0 and they were crap they were rubbish and we got beat 2-0 all on my own we were getting relegated cos he messed their arm with the team he did bug me we were so close to doing something decent it was stupid decision making sheffield united at home we were relegated absolutely embarrassing I always find it hard to critique that season cos I just think it's I just think it's go back and watch any of those games it was pure training ground no it was it's really hard to critique that season cos you forget not only with the games but who knows what the environment was like it was like a training ground I look back at those games at the time we were in it but you take a look back now it's just like you're on the same training you're on the same dressing room with the latter you've got to stand far apart and he said the manager said attack down and he said so we just all step across there's no secret not getting lost in the crowd he even said as a pro the intensity was lower he did that to take the kit home with charlison still got half of that gear I just worked out why jack charlison's grip socks are great cos he had to take them home when he was doing them on it like a 60 degrees instead of like a white wash sorry he done them on a 40 instead of a 60 that's why his grip socks are great whatever you just said no idea you don't know you must do your washing not even grip socks don't you just put them on a thing and then when you come back it's washed the magic table have you got a magic table listen let's move on I haven't been domesticated where we are then we've got a 10 game season like you've just said what do we it's not a stupid question but what do we need to do is that for you going to places where you get hurt I'm asking you going to places where you get hurt I think he has to change the fullback I think he has to make a statement that I'm going to play on the front foot particularly godderson away like I said he's got two goals play six centre backs play keen off whatever because when people comfortably say about how he's made us more robust how the titan defends we don't can see many good because we're a load of defensive minded don't cross the halfway line we see it every season in an FA Cup a non-league team rocks up to a Premier League team very well organised very structured five at the back four in midfield and that all works up to a point we've talked about boxing before when we Tyson they all had a plan to hit them in the face they all have a plan until they lose a goal because if they want to win the get if a non-league club rocks up at Roll Trafford you've just said a non-league club rocks up at Roll Trafford and I've got stick for better and I've got stick for better I've got stick for better and I've got roll Trafford and I've got stick for better as they rock up at Old Trafford with a view of let's get out of here without losing too many goals then they go one down eventually and they go home well it's only one and then it's two then it's three and they go we're settled for that and then they get clapped off well done plucky non-league team they've had their day out they've all played it the swap shirts and all that sort of stuff but the Premier League club plays like that like we do as soon as you go one down do you think well let's just lose two or three nil then because as soon as you have to change to try and score a goal to get an equaliser to get a point or to actually win the goddamn thing that defence of robustness which might have been achieved through numerical and working very very hard all gets stressed doesn't it and it's why we find ourselves frequently in that situation that once we're expected to be a bit more expansive of course the defence of tightness goes because you go in that way players aren't doing recovery runs they're not getting back quickly enough they've probably forgotten what happens if you're all piling forward we did it at Old Trafford at the weekend we started with a high press didn't we we had them wetting themselves but then got caught defensively on the couch bang bang bang bang who thought going to Old Trafford was a good idea to go at them right in a pressing sense but even when we got the ball we didn't know what to do with it really if we were a better offensive team we'd have been two up by the time they got out of their own mouth and that's the defence that the manager can have which is when the chances come if we take them it's all different well increase the frequency of chances increase the quality of chances if you give DCL two or three decent chances in a game and he will score at least one goal perhaps more you never do that was it you talking about your XG was 1.8 but they were all like 0.1 that to me is stats for stats of course it is right so you ask the question what to do change the mindset the manager changes his mindset because that transfers to the players he pick and the way he chooses to play 10 games what do we do 5 is that what you're saying I don't think 5 we've got 5 our own games haven't we that's different if we win a derby then fair plays win all our home games win all our home games yeah and be alright before our own wins on and away we're not looting or boring beat the right teams and get away with 3 or 4 wins can't you head we've had manager change your mindset I like Dave's suggestion which is just win games we can't lose to looting we just can't lose to looting doesn't matter what happens and we have to win the 4 home games against the opposition we're supposed to beat it's as far as chef united and the way we do that is be a little bit more offensive and that doesn't mean changing things from the start that means if changes need changing in the game you've got to go after teams getting better off and not bringing them on or the other way around but will you change the format in a home I don't mind a way I think I don't know but I don't know I think there's a choice to be made whether you can go to a 3 but he's so stuck in his ways what about Patterson then coming in going up and attacking fullback again you're asking that to us saying that it's very easy for us to go the manager has he'll have a lot of like to what makes it work and I don't know whether just bringing Patterson in is the solution to everything because I think midfield James Garn is a waste of space for me because he literally plays in the same position on his own aren't he look at the the heat map and the position they play in the same position you have to have something in midfield you can drive forward but do we have to play probably not but then could MacNeil play be on the strike there's all little things that maybe you could change during the game not necessarily one big thing that you're going to but have a plan A and a plan B do we have to do something different for those home games we have to be more positive and not just say well we'll see what happens till either one of us scores full an hour that can happen when MacNeil's coming inside he should have an assist for better and that's in, that's not his fault but that was a nice place position he found himself in he could actually play there though he took up some nice positions he hit the post the one against Chelsea where he cut inside the full back was whoever was chasing back he cut inside put it through to Dom and then to Corey he scored getting them nice positions maybe that's on the shelf pull back and goes down the remaining games what's either scary or good is that the majority of our games are against teams in the bottom half which is where we got most of our points from for obvious reasons and they are predominantly against teams in and around us as well so they all have greater value you beat Brentford, you beat Luton don't lose as Pedd says you beat Forest at home, Sheffield at home where's the problem and maybe there's a segue there into talking about the field stuff because where's the problem is potential for a future points deduction well, pause let us know what you think what do Everton have to do in these final 10 games what can the manager do in the management team not just Sean Dice, what can Wone and Stone help them out with what should they be looking at is it Patterson, is it Seamus Coleman for home games and just try to bomb on a little bit or is it Two Strikers let us know what you think in the comment section below thanks for watching, see you later


Hi, Inspector Oliver from the Metropolitan South Region. With the holiday season upon us, I'd just like to urge all madras to plan your trips, don't drive tired or fatigued, and arrive at your destination safely. Have a Merry Christmas.


Hi, this is Brandon Rohr with How Decision Trees Work. Decision trees are one of my favorite models. They're simple and they're powerful. In fact, most high-performing Kaggle entries are a combination of XGBoost, which is a variant of Decision Tree, and some very clever feature engineering. The concept behind Decision Trees is refreshingly straightforward. Imagine creating a data set by recording the time you left your house and noting whether you arrived at work on time. Looking at it, you can see that for the most part, departure times before 8.15 result in punctuality, and departure times after 8.15 result in tardiness. You can summarize this pattern in a Decision Tree. The very first branching point is the question, did departure occur before 8.15? There are two branches, a yes and a no. For consistency, we'll keep all of our yeses on the left. Placing this Decision Boundary divides the data up into two groups, and although there are some stragglers and exceptions, the overall pattern is captured by placing this Decision Boundary at 8.15. If you depart before 8.15, you can be reasonably sure of getting to work on time, and if you depart after 8.15, you can be reasonably sure of being late. This is the simplest Decision Tree possible, a single branch. We can refine our estimate of punctuality by subdividing both the before 8.15 and the after 8.15 branches. If we add additional Decision Boundaries at 8.00 and 8.30, then we can divide up our arrival estimate more fully. Those before 8.00 are confidently on time. Those between 8.15 and 8.15 are probably on time, but not guaranteed to be so. Similarly, departure times after 8.15 can be divided into those after 8.30, which are almost certainly late, and those before 8.30, which still have a small chance of being on time. This Decision Tree has two levels. Decision Trees can have as many levels as you want. Most often, each Decision Point, or Node, has only two branches. This example has a single predictor variable and a categorical target variable. The predictor variable is our departure time. And our target variable is our punctuality, whether or not we are late. Because it has only two distinct values, it's categorical. Decision Trees with categorical targets are also called classification trees. We can extend this example to the case where there are two predictor variables. Consider both the departure time and the day of the week. We'll start counting at Monday equals one, so Saturday equals six and Sunday equals seven. Inspecting the data, we can see that on Saturday and Sunday, the green-filled donuts, representing being late, extend further to the left. This means that leaving at 8.10 is probably sufficient to get you to work on time on a weekday, but probably not on the weekend. To represent this in a decision tree, we can start as we did before by putting a decision boundary at 8.15. Any departure times after 8.15 are likely to be late. Departure times before 8.15 are inconsistent. Before we assumed that they would be on time, but now we can see in the data that that's not entirely true. To make our estimate better for the weekends, we can subdivide the before 8.15 departure times into weekday and weekend. Now a weekday departure before 8.15 is confidently on time, however weekend departures before 8.15 are mostly on time, but not entirely. We have updated the decision tree with a node that reflects this new decision boundary. Now we can further refine our estimate by subdividing our weekend pre-8.15 departure times into before and after 8.00. Before 8.00, almost all of the arrivals are on time, and between 8.15 the majority of them are late. Now we have our two-dimensional decision tree neatly divided into four regions. Two of them reflect on-time arrivals and two of them show late arrivals. This is a three-level decision tree now. Note that not all of the branches need to extend down to the same number of levels. Now we can look at an example with a continuous target variable rather than a categorical one. When a model is used to make predictions about continuous numerical variables, it's also called a regression tree. So far we have looked at one and two-dimensional classification trees. Now we'll look at regression trees. Let's consider the question of what time someone wakes up, as predicted by their age. The root of our regression tree is an estimate for the entire data set. In this case, if you had to make an estimate without knowing someone's age, a reasonable guess would be 6.25. This is the root of the decision tree. A reasonable first split is at age 25. On average, people younger than 25 wake up at 7.05, and people older than 25 wake up at 6 o'clock. There's still a lot of variation in the younger group, so we can split it again. Now the people younger than 12 can be estimated to wake up at 7.45, and people between 12 and 25 can be estimated to wake up at 6.40. The over 25 group can be meaningfully subdivided, too. Those between 25 and 40 wake up on average at 6.10, and those between 40 and 70 wake up on average at 5.50. There's still a lot of variation in the youngest group, so we can further subdivide it. By slicing again on age 8, we can refine the estimates to more closely fit the data. We can also subdivide the 40 to 70 group on the 58 year line. Notice that we are getting to where we only have one or two data points per leaf of our tree. This is a dangerous condition and can lead to overfitting, which we'll talk more about in a minute. The resulting tree lets us make a numerical estimate depending on someone's age. If I need to estimate the wake up time for a 36 year old, for instance, I can start at the top of the tree. Are they younger than 25? No. Go to the right. Are they younger than 40? Yes. Go to the left. The estimate then becomes 6.10 a.m. The structure of the decision tree lets you sort people of any age into their respective bin and make an estimate about their wake up time. We can also extend this regression tree example to have two predictor variables. If we consider not only someone's age, but the month of the year as well, then we can find even richer patterns. In North America, days are longer in summer months, and it gets lighter earlier in the morning. In this completely unrealistic example, children and teens are unburdened by the rigorous schedules of work and school and have their wake up time driven by when the sun comes up. On the other hand, adults fall into more regular patterns, fluctuating only slightly with the seasons. Again, older people in this example tend to wake up a little earlier. We construct this decision tree much the same as the last one. We start with the root, a single estimate that roughly fits the entire data set, 6.30. Then we look for a good place to put a decision boundary. We split the data on age 35, creating two halves. One for our under 35 population, with a wake up time of 7.06. And one for our over 35 population, with a wake up time of 6.12. We repeat the process, subdividing our younger population on whether it is before or after the middle of September. And whether it is before or after the middle of March. This isolates the winter months from the summer months. Winter months have a wake up time of 7.30 for those under 35. And in the summer months, it's 6.56. Then we can revisit our over 35 population and split them again on age 48 to get a more accurate representation. We can also go back and subdivide our under 35 winter wake up times on age 18. One under 18 in the winter will wake up at 7.54 as opposed to 6.48 for those over 18. You can start to see the emergence of the tall corner peaks. As we make each additional cut, the shape of our decision tree becomes a little bit closer to that of the original data. Also, you'll notice in the upper right hand plot that the decision boundaries begin to slice the data set into regions of approximately uniform color. The next cut continues this trend focusing on dividing those younger than 35 in summer months to those older and younger than 13. The shape of the model becomes even more similar to that of the data. You can imagine continuing this process until the model closely represents the smooth trend underlying the data. Each decision region would become progressively smaller. The approximation to the underlying function in the data would become progressively better. The power of decision trees is not without pitfalls. An important one to watch out for is overfitting. Returning to our example of a single variable regression tree, age versus wake up time. Imagine that we continue to make cuts on the age axis until there were only one or two data points in each bucket. When we get to this point, the decision tree explains and fits the data very well. It fits too well. Not only does it capture the underlying trend, the smooth curve that the data follows, but it also catches the noise, the unmodeled variation that's included in the measured data. If we were to take this model and use it to make predictions about new data, the noise from the training data would actually make our predictions less accurate. Ideally, we want a decision tree to capture the underlying trend, but not to capture the noise. One way to safeguard against this is to make sure that there are more than a handful of data points in each leaf of our decision tree. That way, any noise will be able to average itself out. Another thing to watch out for is having lots of variables. We started with the one-dimensional regression tree, then included month data to create a two-dimensional regression tree. Decision trees don't care how many dimensions we have. We could, for instance, also add latitude, the amount of exercise someone gets on a given day, their body mass index, and any other variables that we think might be relevant. To visualize this, we'll use a trick shared by Jeffrey Hinton, a renowned deep neural network researcher. He recommends, to deal with hyperplanes in a 14-dimensional space, visualize a 3D space, and say 14 to yourself very loudly. The challenge when working with many variables then becomes deciding which variable to branch on when growing our decision tree. If there are very many variables, then this can require a lot of computation. Also, the more variables we add, the more data we need to reliably choose between them. It's easy to get into a position where the number of data points is comparable to the number of variables. When our data set is represented as a table, this manifests itself as the number of rows being comparable to the number of columns. There are methods for dealing with this, such as randomly selecting a variable to divide on at each branch. But it's something to keep an eye out for and handle mindfully. As long as you keep your eyes open for places where decision trees might fail, you're free to take advantage of their strengths. Decision trees are fantastic for when you want to make as few assumptions about your data as possible. They're quite general. They can find nonlinear relationships between your predictor variables and your target variable, as well as nonlinear interactions between predictor variables. Quadratic, exponential, cyclical, and any other relationships can all be revealed as long as you have enough data to support all the necessary cuts. Decision trees can also find non-smooth behaviors, sudden jumps, and peaks that other models like linear regression or artificial neural networks can hide sometimes. There's a good reason that decision trees consistently outperform other methods on data-rich problems. Thanks for tuning in, and I hope this is helpful in building your next project.


Hello everyone. That's my new informal way of starting the Quarterly Hangouts, by the way. Just made that up right now. This is the Quarterly Hangout for the listeners of Daily Tech News Show to be able to give us a chance to give you an idea of the state of the show, how we're doing, what plans we might have in mind, get some questions from the folks in the audience. Analysts have a special questions channel. If you're an analyst or an advisor, supporter on the Patreon, you get that questions channel. We also have the IRC chat going, and we have the Discord open as well. So it's not, it's not just limited, you know, but we, I'll be looking at the questions channel first before anything else. How are you guys doing? I'm doing good. Roger, how are you doing? I'm okay. I spent all morning going outside. I was telling Tom, I was collecting pieces of my roof tile off the surrounding area because there was a huge windstorm like early this morning. Like it was like 25, 30 mile an hour winds. Yeah, yeah. And it blew some of your roof? Well, my roof is already kind of, my roof needs to be replaced. And I'm going to like the roof. Yeah, but it more pieces of it came off than I wanted to, but. Well, I'm, hopefully it wasn't too much of a cleanup or a hassle. It was, I, I, to my knowledge, my roof did not blow off last night, but it was very windy at my house too. I had to close all the windows just because I was, it was like howling wind. What would assume you'd notice if your roof had blown off? We had, we had. You'd think, but you know, you would have your sound sleeper. So many noises.  So I had to jury rig some twist ties to keep it shut. Well, let's, one of the things I want to talk about obviously is the whole Patreon drama with the change of fees. When we first scheduled this, we were thinking we would have to talk a lot about adaptations and such. But thankfully they've, they put paused, put paused, pressed pause on, on that plan. So we will not be changing the fees. But I thought because of that, you might be interested historically in how Daily Tech News show fits into this. And a lot of the, a lot of the confusion over the fees is just the fact that processing fees and transaction fees are very confusing. I'm not sure I entirely understand it, but what Patreon was trying to do is average out all the different fees into a standardized fee that would hopefully cover their cost. And then they were going to kick it out to the patrons and charge over there. It, it differed by Patreon. In fact, Patreons that I run have way different percentage of fees that get taken out because it's different per person. If you're paying by Stripe, if you're paying by credit card, if you're paying by a particular kind of credit card, if you're an international, there's different, there's different fees all over. So the makeup of our audience actually changes what the percentage of fees are taken out. Now Patreon has been great up until now being entirely transparent about this and saying you'll pay only what the actual processing fee is, which is one of the challenges of pushing it out to patrons is, is they were trying to make it a standardized fee. So patrons knew what to expect, but that meant it might be unfair to some who wouldn't have paid as high of a fee and it would be a bargain for especially international users who would have had to pay a larger fee. Now on top of the fee, they probably already pay for an international transaction. Anyway, but all that is by way of explaining why you will hear Patreon say that fees can be up around 10% or more for some creators. DTNS is lucky, ours isn't. Ours historically hasn't been that. Part of that's because we're monthly. Part of that's because we, we just have a, I don't know, an audience that is figured out how to pay in ways that don't rank up fees and who knows why that is. So December, the processing fee take was 5.97%. That is the second lowest it's ever been, which, you know, for propaganda purposes is bad for Patreon because it would have meant that our processing fees would have gone through the roof under the new system, although they would have been paid by you, now they won't. November, it was 5.94%. October was 6%. September is 6.64%. It's generally hovered around 6% all the way back into, we were getting 7% back in May and April. I'm not, I'd be curious to find out how this changed. I think our highest ever looks like was January 2015 when we paid 8.47%. And that was, let's see, that was at a time. And January 2015, oh, 8.42%. That was at a time when we were bringing in $12,864. So the show itself was making less money, but the percentage fee was higher. I wonder if that has to do with more people only backing us. And so the fee was not divided up amongst that one payment. I mean, just kind of goes to show you how much the stuff really does fluctuate. Yeah. Because you have to do a little math to try to figure out what was going on January 2015. Yeah. I know a lot of you guys are worried about, what's the damage? How many people did we lose as a result of this? Because a lot of people moved to PayPal. On the one hand, we had a lot of people move to PayPal. I don't have a full count of it yet, because it's hard to tell who actually just backed us on PayPal because of the fact that they backed us on PayPal. We've always had a few hundred dollars every month of that and how many people did it particularly. Some people put it in their notes. But I'm waiting for this page to load, but we definitely lost a lot at the beginning, but it looks like a lot of them have come back. So that's good. And that was the hope. For any reason, things got back to normal that Patreon would still be a good processor for a Patreon. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So right now, we are down $120.87 over November and down 154 patrons.  And that's because so many of you actually increased your support because of losing the people. And we super appreciate that. I hate to say I hope you don't reduce your support again, but I understand if the only reason you were doing it before was this. So yeah, we've lost 154 patrons, which is going to ruin my monthly goal of always getting one patron more than next month, unfortunately.  I mean, I think one of the things in the back of my head is, okay, so Patreon has backtracked on this particular approach.  And will it be neutral in terms of impact on our show, or will it have maybe a similar, if not as great an impact on the patrons? I don't know. I mean, the whole thing, just having had to deal with credit processing before, I mean, every credit card company, as you're saying, charges a different rate. And I mean, there's one reason why very few stores take American Express, because they have one of the highest rates for processing. And my dad dropped them like four years in. And, you know, it is a very fluid thing, because it's not a hard percentage that forever is like five or six, or even seven percent. It depends on what the company wants to do. Darker Deemer said, did the amount of income more or less even out among all the sources of donations? It looks like right now, it probably did. But one weirdness of that is a lot of the people who said, I'm giving on PayPal now because I don't like the new Patreon fees, gave 12 months at a go, right? They'd give us $12. Like, here's my dollar a month donation. Boom. Covers me for a year. I'll talk to you in a year. So it definitely made up the gap that I just mentioned, dollar-wise, but presumably that person isn't going to keep giving $12, because that was supposed to cover the whole year. So I'm not sure how that plays out, but close. I'd say it's comfortably close. The other thing is, if you remember, when they announced the new fees, we created new levels that were a dollar, or in the advisor case, $2 less to cover the fee. So that if you're like, I'm going to get hit by this $0.38 fee, and I give a dollar to a lot of different people, particularly at the dollar level, it would have been nice. We couldn't do it at the dollar level. We did it at the others to say, we'll cover that fee for you. And a lot of people took advantage of that, and which is great. That's why we did it. We have asked that if you did that, now that you don't have to pay that fee, if you could readjust your dollar back up to the next level. And the majority of people have done that. We still have 26 people who haven't. I know one person in particular said that they weren't going to because the $9 level made it possible for them in a way that the $10 wouldn't. It's just their personal math.   We don't want your money. But we took those rewards away. So because the whole point was to cover the fee, and we don't need to cover the fee anymore. So hopefully that doesn't cause any ill feelings on anybody. I'm trying to walk the line of like, it's kind of unfair to other people that this person gets to have the $10 level at the $9 level because they just happen to be there at the right time and because Patreon changed their mind. Dogs are upset about it. Right? So we're just like, I only wanted to pay $9. Yeah. So I know it's a little unfair, but at the same time, I don't feel it's right to just be like, nope, screw you. Get out of here. So hopefully most of those people will be able to migrate back to the regular level. What else? What else on the financial front? Oh, I already answered that. Dr. Deemer asked about the overall income. So yeah, I mean, honestly, I'd like, hopefully in January, we can get back to focusing on our goal being a second round table show. We want to make the round table show. We'll be doing one this Friday. We want to make that the key for you. We want to make that like something really that you like. So we're continuing to want your feedback on that. What you like about it. Because we know that this is something that a lot of you really enjoy. And we'd like to do more of them. I think the goal would be eventually to have every Friday be a round table show that still gives you the headlines, because we heard that loud and clear, but also gives you some broader perspective on stuff with different kinds of guests. So that's our next goal. If we can get from the current level up to $22,000, we'll add a second round table. And I want to start focusing on that push going forward. We also have... I love the round table. So I hope everyone else does too, and we'll do more of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We also have a DTNS Labs project coming from Sarah Lane. I don't know how much we want to... Well, we're... What's up to you? How much do you want to tell them? Excuse me. We're technically a month out from when we decided we would do this. Yeah. Yeah, just about. I don't know. We can talk about it as much as you want, Tom. Yeah, yeah. Go for it. I'm comfortable telling people all about it, but it's your gig, so... Okay, well, let's talk about it. So this actually is... It's good timing because we have sort of a month for everyone to give me feedback and prepare yourselves. But what we find in every show of DTNS is that in any 24-hour period, we get lots of feedback that comes into our mailbag. Feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. And some of it comes through Slack or to us individually. But anyway, it's basically the old email bag. And often we have to decide what email goes into the show because if it was all the emails, then it would be a really long show. That said, there is a spinoff slash spillover slash... I don't know. It doesn't exist yet, but it's going too soon, and that is a mailbag show. And in my mind, it's kind of... And we're just going to try to tackle a lot more of things that some of the community is asking each other. I can act as sort of a, hey, let's all answer John's question here, that sort of thing. It's not just me answering questions. Yeah, it's been really fun in the main show when we've done that. Like, hey, Andrea has this issue and she wants to know if anybody's been able to come up with a good solution for it and then we get a bunch of people right in. And it's okay to handle that within the regular DTNS, but we could do so much more of that in a separate show. Exactly. I mean, our email segment on dailytechnewshow is towards the end of the show. And we don't have time to spend a lot of time on it. Sometimes even when we go long, we don't get to any email. So this is just an opportunity to be like, hey, we love feedback. We want to put it a little bit more front and center. And so really, this show, this segment is, in essence, that's what it is. It can evolve into anything we want it to be. And I hope it will. And so yeah, keeping that in mind, knowing that we're going to take greater care and featuring more of you right in. Yeah, yeah. Feedback at dailytechnewshow.com. That does your thoughts. We've got some good ones piled up, but we can always use more. And I know that's one of the things we get in our regular surveys is people saying, I feel like the email segments are too long or not valuable to me. And so we've been trying to walk the line between loving having external voices in the show. But keeping it so that it doesn't weigh down the show and the show feels like it's half somebody, us reading somebody else's voice, right? So this is a chance for the people who really love that email side of things or want to try this helping each other out, a conduit for that while keeping it in the main show too. And again, this will evolve in whatever way our community likes it the most. But we also get a lot of suggestions like, oh, so-and-so would be such a great guest for DTNS. And that's also an option. It's like, hey, is there somebody that might be able to remote in and kind of like hang out with me and answer some questions in the field that they are better than I am at some of these questions? Like, for example, would Rob Reed like to hang out and answer some crypto questions in some mailbag segments? Yeah, yeah. Or any of the other people that often come through as suggestions for us to have on the show. Those are options too. And in fact, I love that because I'm not going to be a wealth of knowledge for everything and it's just more fun to have a conversation. So- Yeah, definitely. So suggestions for guests as well. Welcome. And George Orr in the boss's Slack says, would it make sense to use a feedback channel here, meaning in the Slack, as well as the feedback email, or just use the questions general chat? I think it's easier for us to manage and keep track of things if they're emails. Yes. No, definitely. Definitely easier to track because it's easier to select but also to know what we've done already. Because we do get a number of emails per show the following days. And as the weeks mount, they get pretty big. So it's more of a question of data management via email over... Although, I mean, the feedback questions, the questions Slack and the boss's Slack is super helpful, but just in terms of production to manage the questions that we have. And sometimes more than one person has the same or similar question. And so we tend to group those as well together. So it's just easier from that management side. I mean, I don't think we need a separate feedback channel in Slack. Questions is good for that. General is good for that. But if you want to be on the show, I'm probably always going to suggest emailing the feedback at dailytechnewshow.com just so we don't lose track of it. You know, it's an organizational thing at that point. Yeah, George Orr even says, I use my email as a bit of a to-do list myself. So I hear you, that's kind of what's going on there. I know that the Getting Things Done crowd will howl at the idea of using your email as a to-do list. But those who are without sin, send the first email, as they say. Hey, let's talk a little bit. Anything else along that lines before we talk about future plans? Not for me. Yeah, I mean, just to reiterate, we're going to try to put this all together for the first time on a monthly basis, at least at first, at the end of January. So it gives you a month. Yep. Like I mentioned, Friday, December 22nd will be our roundtable show. For the second month, it will not be the final Friday. I'm going to give up calling it the final Friday because that freaks people out and thought, this is the last Friday show you're ever going to do. It's just going to, you know, we'll probably end up doing it on the last Friday of the month going forward. But November was weird, but Thanksgiving, of course, we got Christmas holidays here. So December 22nd, AAA roundtable. Amber Mac, Annie Gauss, Ashley Esqueda, and Aira Lane, and Ayam Merritt. We're all changing our names. Begin with Ayam. And it was completely coincidental, by the way. Actually, my middle name's Andrew. I could do that. So we can make it five A's. You know, listen, when I got the three A's, I just noticed it because that's how it appeared in the calendar. Say go, A, A, A, A. Yeah, AAA. Oh, AAA. No, it's good. Coincidental, completely coincidental. So yes, if you are an advisor, there is a thread where you can suggest topics for one of the roundtable topics. Please do that. And we'll start a vote this week on a selection of those. I think I have a... Do I have a... I need to make a task for that, I think. Post of vote. I'm gonna... This is live work happening. Post-advisor poll. I'm gonna do that on Tuesday. We'll make that happen. So keep getting those nominations in until Tuesday and then you'll have Tuesday until like Thursday night to pick that. Sorry, I keep muting myself. I'm a frog in my throat today. What species? It's a tree frog, I'm sure. Species of frog? Isn't frog the species?  Could be a toad. I feel like that's just a type of a species, which is frog. I don't know, but is it frog like a class? Yeah, I don't think... I don't actually know. Kingdom. Was it kingdom? I used to remember this kingdom. Genus. Maybe frog is a genus. Oh, okay. Well, I don't know what species it is, but I did get some De La Paz coffee from my coffee shop down the street. For anybody not familiar, it's a... That was pretty quick. You disappeared off camera. You did it just now. Yeah, it's... The coffee shop is very close. No, I made a pot and I just... Wait, it's because I drank the first cup already. It's delicious. It's a San Francisco coffee. Frog is the order Anura. It's not even called frog. Great. Any member of a diverse and largely carnivorous group of short-bodied tailless amphibians composing the order Anura from the Greek and without and Ura tail. There you go. Learn something new every day. Okay, so round table on the 22nd. Normal slate next week. Veronica, Patrick, Scott, Justin, and no Daily Tech news show on December 25th on Christmas Day. In fact, no headlines on Christmas Day or New Year's. Those are the only real holidays we take. Day of rest. Yeah. Two days. So December 25th, January 1st, no DTNS, no Daily Tech headlines. They're international holidays. Even Japan celebrates Christmas Day. Everybody celebrates January 1st. December 26th will be our retro show. So excited for that. It was so much fun. I'm glad you guys voted that one in. December 27th is the listener co-host show. That was a ton of fun. We had great conversation with the folks on that one. December 28th is our predictions results show where most of us look at our 2016 predictions for 2017. But Sarah, you got to finally follow up on your predictions from 2013 for 2014. Right. Yeah. Because that was the last time that I participated in a prediction show. Yeah. Why I haven't been asked over the last few years, Tom and Roger, but. I'm kidding. I totally asked you. Did I? Did I forget to ask you? I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. Who knows? You probably did. I probably did. I don't even remember. It's great, especially because well, some of my predictions didn't age all that well. But others did. Yeah. No, you actually nailed a couple of them. Having the extra years helped a couple of them, too. December 29th is our predictions episode. That will come with a disclaimer because I forgot this principle, which I think I held at one point and I just forgot this year. Don't do your predictions episode too early. Predictions episode probably should be the last special we record. Well, and just so people know, it's because we're not doing a regular show between Christmas and New Year's. We shot. We recorded. Recorded these. Yeah, yeah.  So it really wasn't something that, it wasn't that we didn't think anything would come true in a month. It was truly just something that we. It was logistics. Yeah. It was like, this is the date that works out for the people who need to be on the show. But a couple of the predictions are already expired. Like they've either come true. I think both of them have come true, actually. So, yeah.  Yeah, it's, you know, one of those moments where you can be like, oh, that's what they were talking about. Yeah. This is not a prediction. It's a reality. January 2nd, of course, will be our anniversary show. Four years in the books. January 2nd, 2014 was the first DTNS.  Patrick Beijo will be on that show. And then on January 8th, we'll be from CES, January 9th and January 10th, from CES as well. Oh, and yeah, we won't be having our normal cavalcade of contributors because we'll be doing our guests live from the convention floor. Need to make sure that the contributors know that. Yes. But yeah, we'll have Patrick Norton, we'll have Shannon Morris. I think we're going to get Bill Dutweiler from Tech Republic. You're on that, right? I am. I sent out an email. I am waiting for a reply. Yeah, yeah. We just need to get the timing scheduled. So yeah, that'll be, that'll be a lot of fun. And we're also going to be at the evening press conferences, Digital Experience, CES Unveiled and Showstoppers. Uh-oh. What happened? Well, let me continue. So we're going to have Patrick Shannon Morris. We're going to have a couple of other folks that we can find. Ever since we, so this is on the audio version of this, you'll keep hearing me talk. Ever since we switched to you, starting the hangout, Roger, sometimes if I choose the window that the video is in, it closes. Well, wait, are you saying it's, I'm, I have some secret machination too? No, no, I don't think it has to do with you. I think it's the fact that the start broadcast button isn't in my window is causing it to do something weird. But as I was saying, we're, we're going to, the three of us are going to be talking this coming week about what to do at CES in general, but also particularly about like, Oh, what do we want to do at those evening press conferences? Do we want to do little live streams or record little bits or, or what? So yeah, we'll definitely be eating. Do you want to watch us eat? Maybe we'll just talk about food. Watch Roger eat all the gout safe food. Review all the shrimp. That's one thing I will never eat. I got, I got a bad shrimp once and it's pretty much, I mean, I like, I like prawns. Not to say I don't like shrimp, but I had a bad hors d'oeuvre once, bad hors d'oeuvre experience and I've been very shy. Not having that again. Yeah. So yeah, if you have any ideas of, if you've seen people cover show stoppers, but they call PEPCOM or digital experience or CES unveiled and you're like, Hey, what I'd like to hear from you guys is X. So one thing I don't think we want to do is the typical like, let's walk to this table. What do you do? Okay. Thank you for your pre rehearsed statement to the next table. That's that's not that interesting. No, um, yeah, it's, it's, it'll be interesting. Send us your ideas. We got, well, we'll come up with some ideas too. We could do it live from the pinball museum or the sir one. That's not where the, um, conference is though. I know, but we could play pinball too.  Is pinball museum in Vegas? Yeah, there's one in Vegas. The only reason I know is John DeVorek always. First I've heard of it. It says John DeVorek also says there's a very tasty taco truck that parks right outside. There's also a, um, uh, there's also a meetup that we're going to do. And we, and we have to nail down the time and location of that. So keep your eyes on the Patreon for that. That will be that. All right. Anything else? Any other business that we need to cover? Talked about Patreon. Talked about CES. Talked about Mailbag, uh, bonus labs, uh, show, uh, upcoming, um, I'll tell you, says he thinks a wrap up of five really cool things we saw at each press conference might be cool. Yeah.  So it'd be kind of fun to be like, okay, if there are only five things that we can take out of this show stopper. There are five things we can steal from show stoppers without getting caught. Probably shouldn't document that though. Generally, I used to just hand my business card. It's like, I need to review you. Can you ship it here? Nice. I, uh, we could also talk to people. I mean, the one thing that I always get out of these things is seeing people that I haven't seen in a long time. Like other, other reporters and experts and analysts and stuff like that. Usually they'll pull out a B list celebrity to wander the floor because they're a spokesperson for something and, and you can talk to them. Well, yeah. I was thinking more like Molly Wood and Andrew Vaughan. Oh, I was thinking that versus Victor or, uh, yeah, yeah. Who's the comedian that smashes all the fruit with a big, uh, um, Gallagher. Gallagher. Yeah. Yeah. He was there one year. Yeah, I'm not that interested. Lil B shows up. I'll be all over that. Is Gallagher still doing his thing? No, I don't, I don't know, but I know he lives, he did live in Vegas because I shot a short bit with Veronica in him once. That's fun. Yeah. He's one of those, those, uh, I know who he is. I know he's the watermelon guy, but I've never seen a stand-up act of his, right? I've just seen like the boxes, like at the video store. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's in here. Gallagher is one of those comedians that you really kind of have to like that particular act to enjoy because I, I've seen one. I saw one on the home video and I just, maybe you need to physically be there, but I, I wasn't like. BioCal points out that his brother has taken over. So there's a, there's a new guy. Oh, no, maybe he's funnier. Yeah.  Still goes by Gallagher. All right. Uh, so we're going to, uh, we're, we keep taking questions. So if you're in the Slack, uh, go to the hashtag questions channel. Um, if you are in the IRC, uh, you can ask questions in there as well. And I'm a gun, uh, send this link to PJC Reese, one of our advisors. Uh, because if you are at the advisor level, uh, we give you the opportunity to join us on this hangout. Uh, you just have to tell us ahead of time so that we know where to, to find you. Where is he? I bet he's over here somewhere. Um, but you guys can say, speak your mind if you got anything else going on. Um, well, I do that on your minds. Uh, well, I mean, I'm thinking about what to eat for brunch. That's on my mind. Well, brunch is always on my mind. Like Willie Nelson. To scroll by a photo that Andy and Otco posted of, um, pancakes with whipped cream and looks like walnuts on top. And now I think that the problem with pancakes as soon as you eat pancakes, you can't eat anything else cause you're stuffed. That's what I always have a problem with pancakes on the side.  No sense to me. Yeah. Pancakes are the meal. Maybe, maybe a side of bacon with your pancakes, but not like a full meal with pancakes on the side. Well, and three of us went out to a place that had good pancakes recently. And like, we all talked about them and then pancakes because it's like, so dangerous. Too much. Yeah. The whole day then is sort of. Empty carbs. Carbs. Well, you know, it's funny because I, I prefer cornmeal pancakes over to just. Ooh, I like cornmeal pancakes too. Yeah. They're so rich and decadent. Paul is here. How's it going, Paul? Pretty good. How about yourself? Good. How you been since the last time we spoke? Um, pretty busy actually. Yeah. Got the kids who are in school and finishing out the semester for midterms. So they can enjoy the rest of their December. I see you have a Star Trek shirt on. I do. In Star Wars weekend, you're fighting against the current. I like it. That's right. So as an advisor, a longtime advisor now at DTNS, what did you make of this whole Patreon stuff? Um, I expected the same sort of reaction that happened was that change causes everyone to lose their mind. And everything's going to have to change. And no one's going to be happy with that change. From a business perspective, I understand that Patreon's got to come up with some answers on how to be more able to pass along the savings to the folks, the creators, and how to solve that problem. But I have found that being from a technology, people respond to change, having managed some folks when it comes to technology, that when you have given them something and you proceed to take it away, everyone reacts poorly. Yeah. And I get where they wanted to simplify some things. And, and, and everything they did on paper made sense from that level. Like it didn't hurt creators.  If anything, they might have taken a hit if they, if their average fee calculations were off, but probably not that much of a hit. Maybe they would have made a little extra money too. It could go either way. But I never believed it was a money grab. But it just did not, it was not patron friendly. And while Patreon resolved that by saying we're creator focused, which is good for me as a creator, the creators are patron focused. And we're like, but now you're putting us in the position of dissatisfying the patrons. And I'm glad they, they, they got that. Yes. And I thought that was remarkable how quickly they changed and turned on the diamond said, oh, wait, we got it. Well, you're sorry. And to publicly admit that when you make a mistake, that's a difficult thing to do as a, as a business, or as an online presence to admit openly that we made a mistake. It's interesting that you say quickly, because a lot of people thought it took up too long. Well, of course, we're always that, but I knew that waiting, you know, I didn't change any of my, my sub pledges levels. And so I knew that waiting was going to be the best, the best thing, which is, I think what some folks in the Slack advice is like, you know what, everyone just hang tight and we'll see what things shake out. And we're, you know, weeks away from the next pledge commitment. And so I just, it was, it was a lot of craziness because I think our Slack had over, you know, hundreds and hundreds of messages within an hour. Yeah. So it was a little distracting. That's just the analysts, right? Like that's, that's just the people at the $20 level and above. Yeah, it was a lot, it was a lot to deal with. BioCal wants to know if there's any more tools we could think of that would make the doc or spreadsheet easier to use for us, which if you don't know, BioCal created a script for our spreadsheet, which allows Roger to press a button that changes the color of the top bar. So we know we need to kind of wrap up and move on to the next thing, which has been fantastic. I mean, like, you know, I'm just thinking like if in terms of run, run down tools, just having a countdown clock just somewhere on the top that just counts down time. Because as it is, I bounce between, depending on what computer I'm on, you know, I'm either looking at a corner or whatever. And I'm trying to get everything on one page would be nice. Yeah. Or even just a clock, not even, whether it's countdown or Oh, yeah, like just something to give me. Yeah, so you could see the time right where it is. No, that's cool. Any other thoughts on how the show's been going, Paul? I've enjoyed everything that's been going on. I think the changes and the additional labs are great. The only problem I'm running into is the amount of time that I now have to commit extra to be able to listen to the extra pieces and parts that come into my feed. So I usually listen on my way in my commute when I take my kids to school and on my way into work. But on the days that I don't take them into school, it's only a quick 10 minute commute to work, which is very convenient for me. But it cuts into my available listening time. Yeah. And then I try to listen to, excuse me, I think I have the same genus that Sarah had. Yeah, it's a genus throat Sunday. Myself being unable to listen to the podcast and trying to do other work, trying to do other activities. Driving is just something that I can usually listen to radio station or that sort of thing. And find that you can listen to the podcast without losing track of what's being talked about. Because if I'm trying to read emails while listening to the show, I immediately get distracted. And two minutes later, I'm like, wait a minute, what are they talking about? They changed topics already. Yeah, yeah. So for me, I need to be having some focused time where I'm not actively, mentally engaged in something like reading or trying to solve problems. Oh, yeah. I would not be able to read and listen to a informational anything at the same time. That would be difficult. Yeah, in the same way. If there's words involved, I hear them. I can't not hear them. And it keeps me from being able to concentrate on anything else that I'm doing. I do not, you know, because we do our show, I'm not always listening to it later, although I do sometimes. But I find, yeah, driving is one of those times where you can, I absorb stuff well. And then also jogging. I love jogging because it helps me like, I don't know, I go somewhere else rather than this machine thinking about how long you have left or whatever. Yeah. It helps me sort of escape the reality that I'm jogging. Yeah, no, absolutely. Same here. I can't listen to audiobooks when I drive. I could listen to podcasts because, you know, if I have to navigate a weird left turn or something and I miss a couple of lines, it's usually not hard to pick up where I was because the words are still in my head kind of echoing around versus if I'm reading something, I just blank out like you were saying, Paul. But if I'm listening to an audiobook, that's something where I like, I want to hear every single word and if I drift away from the book because I'm paying attention to driving, I feel like that's important. I should prioritize the driving and so I tend not to listen to audiobooks unless I really know where I'm going and I can kind of drive on autopilot. A couple of times that I listen to audiobooks when it comes to enjoying them and being able to pay attention and concentrate is when I'm driving long, long distances.  I'm not going to be making you punch at course corrections. I'm going to be going between states or between countries. Yeah, you stay in your lane for a long time. You know, if they could build like the rewind and fast forward controls into the steering wheel like they do with the radio controls, it'd be great because like, oh no, I'm coming into an area like if I'm driving in the interstate, it's like, oh, I'm coming into an area where I got to like dodge like, you know, four semis and the guy who can't drive, you know, put on pause.  Kind of like cruise control. Just need car play. Yeah. Well, that's, you know, you bring up a good question about having too much in the feed. Everyone is free to skip episodes if they don't sound interesting. And daily tech headlines is kind of born of the idea of, you know, I can't listen for a week because I'm out of town, but I want to keep up, right? You can always have that because it's just a couple of minutes each time. But yeah, so we'll keep taking feedback on whether you want labs to be in the main feed or should it be broken out? My problem with breaking it out into its own feed is then a lot of people won't hear it. And the idea is, these are experimental things that we want you to hear and give feedback on. And the ones that really take off might deserve to become their own show at some point, but we won't get the exposure if we don't put it in the main feed. Exactly. And I don't think anything diminishing from the feed because those are the optional episodes. So I certainly don't prioritize them over the other, the daily feeds, but and certainly keeping the headlines short and quick. I mean, even if I am in the office, I will go ahead and take the time. And I usually use the anchor app to to listen to that. And those controls actually are pretty slick. If you do miss something, you can go back one quick story and start it over again. Although I do find sometimes the audio quality because of the way it's being recorded because it is on our phone changes and varies from day to day. Yep. No, that's true. We could fix that by recording locally and uploading, but it like triples the time that it takes for the anchor stuff. So I'll keep thinking of that. I've been trying to find a good mic to lightning interface that would work for that. Anchor was only iOS though, but now it's not. So maybe I could try a different phone. We'll see. We'll keep playing with that. Hey, if you want to give us feedback on the show, there's all kinds of ways. Feedback at DailyTechNewShow.com, commenting on the blog, commenting on the Patreon. Sending us messages through the Patreon. But we're going to be doing a survey. And this is something I try to do around twice a year to just kind of ask you questions like, what do you think of this? What do you think of that? It's one of the ways we know what segments are clicking with people and why. So keep an eye out this week for that link. We'll be posting it in the Patreon. We'll be posting it on the site. We'll have it. We'll mention it in the show. And if you can take a couple of minutes and fill it out once it's out there, it's super helpful to us. Yes. Please fill out the survey. You know, it just helps us get a better sense of who you are, what you like, and what we can do to make your life even better. Yeah. I think that's pretty much it. That's all we've got. Paul, thank you for supporting us on Patreon and being willing to jump on and be the representative of the audience. Absolutely. My pleasure. I look forward to these emails when they come out. And whatever I'm doing, I stop immediately to reply. If you're an advisor at the advisor level on Patreon, you could be like Paul. Just keep an eye out when we ask either on Patreon or in the Slack. Roger, Sarah, anything else before we wrap this up? Oh, go ahead, Roger. Oh, I just wanted to thank everyone for sticking with us through this whole kind of Patreon thing, because it really underscores how much we not only rely on you, but appreciate your support that helps us continue the show. Yeah, I would echo that. And also, thanks to everybody who's been so good to us, having me on the show, and it's almost like I'm like, did I used to not do the show? I know. I was about saying the same thing. It's like you've always been here. I know, I know. And that's great. That speaks to the fact that it was already a good show, and I'm lucky to be here. I continue to love getting to know everybody that's part of this community and love getting your feedback. And thanks to everybody for being part of the audience and being part of the show. Yeah, I can only say I second these emotions myself. You guys, I really honestly, honestly did not think if you had asked me in January 2014, will you still be doing daily tech news show in 2018? I would have said, ah, probably not. It'll change or it'll sputter out. And the fact that we're not only still here, but growing because of you is insane. I cannot thank you enough. So keep the support up as much as you can. Those of you who can't, we totally understand. There's always somebody else to pick you up. And if you can be that person that picks somebody else up, we love that too. We, well, the cops are coming. I don't know if you can hear that. So I have to go. I have to run. No, thanks everybody for joining us. Well, we'll see you on Monday. All right. See you Monday.