Welcome to Toffy TV, I am joined by John Blaine, the Chairman of the Shareholders Association. Before we begin, this video is sponsored by One Football, One Football's app makes it easy to keep up to date with all the latest transfinitions, stats and scores all in the one place to download the One Football app, click the link in the description below. One line she said which I thought was key was the club must continue to listen and engage with supporters, I think that for me is key. She moved on to Bramley more, there was nothing really new on it other than the fact that I suppose it's quite a key line is that basically far out my share he said we're just basically buying it without the council. When he broke down where the monies are coming from he said 350 million from borrowing so debt, a chunk of money probably 100 ish or whatever from naming rights and the rest from equity might not be him, this is where me and Paul disagree, Paul thinks it's all coming from far out, I suspect some of it won't, but clearly not the council. Well that's it isn't it so for the people who were moaning and bitching and crying you've cost the city 7 million a year so well done. You said not a lot, this was Keith's bit, not a lot came out, well it did because we got some clarity around it. Well I was going to go on to Keith so give us the Keith bit go on. Clearly he talked about the stadium and he did a bit of a history lesson which was fundamentally about all these firsts we have and we build stadiums and stuff like that and we're going to do it again. Clearly he talked around the 52,062, it was very clear to anyone in the audience that the extra 10 just comes from safe standing. All right let's just stop there right, let's just quickly stop here because we know one of the Fumboy 3, we need this one to share a deal for this for us, one of the Fumboy 3 was particularly not happy with Roddy when the stadium came out. The number when it was announced. So it's 52, I wasn't overly excited by it either and I said that on the reaction because I thought, I think I remember saying to you on one of these videos because you did mention 52 to me, you said when you spoke to Farad that number was mentioned. He said 52 to 55. So I didn't think Everton would have the balls to go lower than 55 I thought. 55 to me wouldn't have been good enough but I thought there's no way Everton will go below 55 because they just won't. So I was thinking 58 might be the thing. So it's 52, however if it's 62 it's safe standing. I don't have an issue with it. Listen I understand it still requires a lower change. I get that. Very likely. But the lower will change and therefore if the lower does change and that gives Everton the capacity of 62,000, trust me there will be more than 10,000 people wanting to stand at Everton's new ground quite comfortably. The kids want to do it. I love there is a kid. Well let's give an example then. Because this is where the devil is in the detail. Because you say I loved it as a kid. And you'll have this generation who want to stand already. Standard everywhere you're going by the way. So there's 3,000. The policy that Tottenham have done because they're hoping to have a same standard. Is only the full fact tickets can actually have standing places. So none of the concessionary ticket pricing is going to apply in the standing section. So they're basically saying that people who stand have to be between whatever it is, 21 and 60 or 65. Whatever it is. So you and your lad might not, if Everton did that wouldn't necessarily be able to go in the standing section. No one obviously would be. So and again we talked about this on the podcast this morning. I actually mean Paul had a bit of a spat about it because what he was relaying accurately of course, because that's his detail man, was the policy of Tottenham. Not necessarily what our policy might be. But that's where the fund comes. And that's what a lot of this consultation needs to be out. We need to consult about what does safe standing really mean. It adds 10,000 seats, so you take it in places. You have 10,000 seats which become 20,000 standing places. But what does it mean? Are they going to be cheaper because you stand up? Are they going to be exactly the same? Are they just going to be in two stands? Is that two home ends? Is that the away fans can stand up? Because you've got to offer the away fans haven't you? It's similar to what you offer your own. And all those sort of things. So the devil is in all the detail. I still believe what it's worth. And it's no insider knowledge stuff other than what Farhad said. They haven't made a decision yet on what capacity. Let's call it the seated capacity. But they've said they're planning around it being 52. I think when it finally comes to it it'll be more. 52 to 55 for example. But what is key based on what Colin Chong said is, if it's 52,000 seated and 62,000 standing, we know there's going to be 20,000 standing. If it's 55,000 seated and 62,000, because the 62 is going to stay the same, that's the absolute maximum. So we'll just have less standing then. So it's interesting. I spoke to a space fan. I'm not going to be able to use that stadium till March. No. But what he said was what I thought was interesting was, when they put in planning permission it was for 56,000. When they got planning permission it went to 62. And that's the point. The club are not going to say we're playing the planning games here. We can't tell you and all that sort of stuff. But of course people are not daft. They can work it out for themselves anyway. And the club have never said that it's a financial constraint either. The only constraint I ever hear when people talk about the capacity is don't believe we'll fill it. And I know you're one of those. Well, it's what it is. It's very easy to go, I want us to have 75,000. For say 100. 65,000, 60,000. We'll fill that no problem. Where's the evidence we will fill that no problem? I'm not saying Everton can't fill it because quite clearly we can. I was in Everton in the 80s as a kid and it was 54,000. I also stood in the Gladysith when there was 87,900 against Coventry and 4,000 for the screen sport Super Cup game. So when we won the league our average gate was 33,000. When we were the very best in the country. That's fine. So what I'm saying is the caution that Everton have probably shown, this is from me saying that it shouldn't be lower than 55,000. Is that the evidence, it's great saying was sold out every week and we are. Right?  If you're going to build strategy based on losing 6-2 at home. I'm not saying to you. We sold out every game aren't we? Which is great. We've got 10,000 on the waiting list. More than 10,000. More than 10,000. More than 10,000 on the waiting list. So we're 37,000 that we can sell to Evertonians unless they only take the lower 800 gives you the thousand above. So in general with 37,000 tickets that Evertonians can buy. Say there's 11,000 on the waiting list for arguments. That takes us to 47,000. But not all of them will buy one. Exactly. And how many of them of the 6,000, the 31,300 cap? So say 32,000. Keep it up. How many of towards 5,000 walk up or buy seats game by game? How many of the 5,000 buy seats game by game are on the waiting list of the 10,000? So straight away you could argue and go with 47 with the away fans 50. So we need another 10,000 fans on top of that to get 60,000 every week. Great if we start getting up into the Champions League spots. Fantastic. We will get it. No problem about it. But if we've already built the stadium too small it's too late. That's what I'm saying. We're saying 52 to 62 aren't we? Only if the legislation changes. If the legislation changes. See this way you're wavering. I'm not wavering at all. It's 62 isn't it? That's the capacity it can be. So if the club say 55 then we both think it will end up around 55. But it can go to 62 with stand-in. To me that doesn't issue with that. So why are people taking that negative stance on it? I'm not sure. I've said this to Paul recently. He is a huge advocate from a financial perspective of let's call it 62. 63,000 seats. Seats because that attracts a revenue stream. And if you believe we're going to sell it out then anything less than 62,000 is you're wasting some money aren't you? Yeah of course. Because not only do people buy seats they buy concessions, beers, burgers, got crisps. Do you believe we will sell 62,000 every week? No no see you use that phrase every week. Every other week. I'm not being facetious I don't mean that. Because we can all pick things up. I said it to someone this morning. Of course a wet Tuesday night at home to Huddersfield. There might not be 62,000 there. But that's not the point. The real point is when we talked about the P&L before for the player trading. We have P&L for matchday income. And we say what does the average attendance need to be for us to compete financially. It doesn't matter what the real numbers are. Let's just do it simply. At least as much as the other guys get. Let's do the top eight. If the top eight matchday incomes they've all got more income coming in than we have. So what do we have to do to be seventh? Then what do we have to be to fourth? And where do we think we can go up a matchday income? Whilst at the same time trying to keep prices low and so on. So it's not rocket science. It's very simplistic. If you can't get the people to pay more for their ticket you have to have more people to get to the revenue line. So my argument is the lower the capacity, the higher the ticket prices will be. Inevitable. The football club through Denise are wholly committed to the very good work that we've done and continue to do on keeping ticket prices low. I've just been really shit-staring I suppose. That just means that profit for those increase in ticket prices won't go to the football club. It'll go to the touts. Because people will sweep up those tickets. People will buy season tickets with an intention to go to the big games and not can't be asked for the others or to sell all of them. People do it now. When demand exceeds supply some way or shape or form the prices is going to go up. Now your real question is 62,000 based on standing which actually fulfills some of the design brief around atmosphere and all those sorts of things. Isn't that just a more cost-effective way of delivering the 62,000 that everyone says they want than the other way? I'd say that probably is my question. And that's when you get into the devil in the detail. Because what we're really saying is for some games and this is when you get into how can you configure the stadium? We don't know right now but on a particular game we say the whole of the designated home and safe standing area is standing for this game. So you think for the Derby that's easy it'll fill. What happens when it's a game which is somewhere in between? Well it's not 52. It's more than 52 but it's less than 62. And does the configuration of the stadium of making that whole section stand it and so on and so forth. And that's why I think when they've done the press release I think the club could perhaps explain this a bit better to be honest. Just to get people on side if they feel the need to get people on side is the key word I think it was attributed to Colin was flexible. Clearly we're going to have sections and we're going to be able to say what do we think the attendance is going to be for that game say somewhere between 52 therefore this bit's going to be standing but that means that's where the people are going to have to go. That means that's where the people are going to have to go. Now if I'm a guy who wants to go to that game but I want a seat I can't have one. I could if it was a 60,000 2000 old seats of stadium. And so all the demographics and the segmentation and all that sort of stuff needs to be done on that. And we just need to understand why the club appear to think 52 is the right answer. OK. But they'll hopefully benefit from safe standing. Yeah that's what I was going to say. And I never heard anyone say anything other than what you said is I don't think we're filling. If legislation changes and we can use it as a 62,000 seater do you not think that those sections then will become season ticket holders to people who want to stand if we can use the sixth. So say legislation changes and you've gone to the safe standing section show and stuff like that. So if it changed then it became 62,000 I don't know what's the ratio to that is it 1 to 2 is it 1.1 1 to 2. I think that's the assumption the club is working to. The assumption is it's 1 to 2 and it's passed for that to happen obviously the concourses have to be big enough to take the exit. But say it's done so from day one August 2023 Everton are on to whoever new castle. There'll be 62,000 in there. Everton say we can sell that end where we've got our safe section and that gives us a bigger capacity every week what's stopping the club saying that whole section is season ticket holders for this season we've got we can use it as standing so it's going to be a section for season ticket holders nothing there's a whole of the park enders so then our capacity becomes 62,000 every week doesn't it the whole of the park enders is season ticket holders so that would make more sense wouldn't it to go the safe standing area is season ticket holders only you sell the tickets you've done the surveys right none of the survey questions said would you want to stand if the only difference between the 52,000 which we've been told and the high water market 62 is 20,000 rail seats in two stands 20,000 rail seats what happens if people just don't want to stand don't you think they would I assume but you're building a stadium on the assumption where Paul with his fancy models his assumption is we'd fill it with 62,000 seats why why would we fill it with 62,000 don't read his blog mate I'm not going to do it here because I just want to know why we'd fill it with 62,000 seats because his view is we wouldn't with standing so there's no issue with the rail seats then isn't it it's bad assumptions isn't it for many a long year there's whole generations of fans being in a standing environment of course and clearly safe standing rail seating isn't the same as standing on the Gladys Street back in the day swinging around and all that sort of stuff I went to Shrewsbury in the FA Cup and couldn't get a ticket to stand you'd have to sit in there because the atmosphere seems to be better fall them away when they came up they even caught us behind a goal the fear we got B2 mil that was standard I couldn't get a ticket that went quickly but let's go back to your argument and this is getting a bit deep this now let's go back to your argument because when you made the coffee before you said you don't believe we'll fill 62,000 every game you're now suggesting that we would no what I'm saying to you is bear with me because those season ticket people you're talking about who are going to be in the standing sections if they're already people who go to the game then for every person who's going in the standing section does an empty seat somewhere yeah so to accept the argument on safe standing delivering a 62,000 seater stadium capacity and we think for a lot of games we would fill it you have to conclude we'd fill it if it was all seats as well you can't have your cake and eat it so therefore are we agreeing there is sufficient demand to fill a 62,000 seater stadium but you believe and I would tend to concur that a big chunk of that being standing is where the games going and some of the younger people want they want to stand and have that different experience which we enjoy when we were younger and therefore it might actually increase the likelihood if you're filling 62,000 if you had standing sections what I would say is one just me thinking now without any knowledge or any some money would go there but it doesn't work I don't know but in my mind if we could have one section that was season ticket holders so therefore just from very basic suns takes it to 57,000 whatever yeah and then the other 5,000 I'm just doing Everton suns 52 to 62 the other 5,000 becomes a variable so one section it's right what you said at the very start of this little bit Everton against Everton against West Ham excuse me Everton against West Ham we're opening well one stand section is done anyway because certainly it's the things 57,000 but we know we won't sell that other one in that other stand so that's just 5,000 seats yeah yeah yeah that can become flexibility isn't it that's what I said before about Collin saying the flexibility and the devil is always in the detail I'm sure we can speak to Dortmund and ask them how they do it because well I'm sure we should yeah Collin's there is and this is why it needs to be planned and all that good stuff is just I just send a curveball your way okay another one would you let 20,000 season ticket holders fill the designated home end because maybe that might be you know it was all big standing section and all that good stuff that designated home end you know the south stand could be as big as as many as 20,000 people in it but then if next week you're in the Champions League 10,000 of those people can't go because it's no standing allowed or we think once UK legislation then European legislation will chain and so on your way for me so you're into all that and then you're into well that means you can have just pretend it's all behind one go the 10,000 rail seats a 10,000 season ticket holders yeah but the other 10,000 are going to be a walk up or you just bite the bullet and this has happened and it will happen in other leagues and stuff and don't forget is that when you say it's you and me buy a season ticket in that standing section you know there's a chance you'll have to move to the European game because yeah to be accommodated because as long as it's not as simplistic as a 52, 60 no no no but as long as what I'm saying to you is if ultimately we get to the 62,000 mark then that's fantastic and please despite what you said before you now accept that there is demand they shouldn't stop putting words into my mouth I said to you you've got to be convinced that the globe will sell out mostly at 60,000 no you haven't you've got to be convinced that you sell out enough to justify the investment I don't know like I said to you I always thought 55, I didn't think I didn't think it would go less than 55 and I was hoping it would be 58 because at 60 no one and I don't think 52 was the lowest number they were considering that's on third party advice so they're taking expert well hopefully once the plan ends in it hopefully it'll be nudged up to 55 I'll just remind people that far had said 52 to 55 so therefore it could be 55 and then like you said the 7000 it can only ever be 62 the 7000 could come then hopefully from the rails and go back to what we said before you'd like to think it's clear that the infrastructure itself you know concourse areas, amenities, escape routes and all those sorts of things will be for 62,000 well you've got to be haven't you because otherwise the flexibility can't be there no one's going to start ricking stands that I wanted to hear and going we're redoing it so the external structure probably will never ever change one it's hard to say just very briefly not really it was not really about stadium clearly he said it's going to be a thing to be proud of he said it could be built in two years again it's a bit of a wind changing of the wind isn't it it isn't because when I've chatted to people I suppose it goes back to that it's not what you do the way that you do it depending on how you ask the questions I've heard it can be done in two years before clearly they've got some contingency and perhaps what Keith was really talking about was a sunny day plan because he was talking about spending the ground early next year but again that's out of control but that makes sense though doesn't it if ever it didn't get if ever it didn't get their plan on application in July or August maybe it's ahead of schedule so it could be it could take four or five months for planning permission it could be granted in January because I have a spade in the ground in February the stadium theoretically would then be built by May 2022 absolutely and then all of a sudden you're open in August 2022 absolutely and when I talk to people I say well if you remember the announcement I came out and the quotes against Colin and stuff like that then they were talking about we can't control the period of planning approval and then within six months we'll start building and then the stadium would be open three years later well that's the under promising well that's what we you like that build don't you and that's good again that's good what did you think about just on this point because me and Ped had totally different views can I arbitrate then don't tell me which view it is very simple of when the capacity should have been it's obviously out there now before any stadium designs now I was of the opinion that what do you think my opinion was that Evan should release the capacity before the images or vice versa good question my own view is there's a general meeting coming so damping down any challenge you may get about the stadium and its capacity by telling people what it is this is what I thought I said to Ped should just say the capacity what the planning and deal with it now and he didn't he wanted fancy pictures because he said when he then say the capacity if it's lower no one will mind and I was like I think if you look at the people's project itself and whether people like what's been going on there's plenty of people who have opinions on it it's clearly about trying to get as much understanding of what the pros and cons are from the citizens of Liverpool and the city region around the stadium because that gives you the longest amount of time to address it so if you know you've got a planning assumption of 52 tell us and they have done people are huff and puff, people complain people think it's good, people think it's bad the club can listen and that's what Denise kept talking about last night we're going to listen and hear what people say and then hopefully some time in the near future as they build up to the planning application we have listened we've got another consultation we have listened and we've made it bigger and that's all people can do is continue to say 52 isn't it enough and I asked you the simple question you can ask Peg when you see him well if you thought that the capacity was going to be in the range 52 to 55 and you're going to make an announcement would you announce 52 or would you announce 55 or would you announce 52 to 55 you wouldn't do the latter because people then say well where is it then and you wouldn't go for the high one would you so it's 52 so hopefully that will be pushed up and then the flexibility will be there to take it to 62 because we asked what we all want Sasha Ryan said you've kind of touched on it he basically was just talking about where we are I suppose he did some stuff around obviously we talked about my stay in he talked about the impact on the wage bill which again you can see the slides people I think I tweeted a lot obviously and that sort of stuff and it is a dry subject looking at the numbers but he had some nice graphics and he talked through them but the important thing is you get to see the man doing it rather than it all being the previous chief exec and we were talking about finance the finance guy did it and we were talking about the future and driving the business the chief exec did it but that's key isn't it did you feel team Marcel and Marco Darren did a little and I suppose there was this owner marking question Marco Silva will continue its owner marking so just deal with it all the best clubs use it in the world the best teams in the world use it any questions that they got what's it like working for Everton and all that sort of stuff Marco is quite a character and Marcel's dutch so they're both quite quiet but Marcel did make a joke of course that he got here first so he got the best office but they clearly work closely together and with Bill particularly on the recruiting side and Far had behind the scenes with his deep pockets what do you think about Bill still being around think it's important because he gets not a lot of people he gets to stick obviously but listen we know that we stagnated for an awful long time and Bill was key in that whether he likes that or not that's the way it is the only key to the point of we didn't develop the way we probably should have done but I think from his football knowledge he is key still at the moment because he's I don't know whether Far that's you know as what Bill is as a key as a partnership it probably kind of works and now that Marcel's here the Bill thing the Bill issue for me doesn't it's neither of you know the end and you know you talk about Marco and Marcel having an interview with Darren but Far had and Bill so did and they clearly bounced off each other quite well so you got a little again it's like on the field isn't it when your individual battles buddy up with your teammates and stuff like that centre backs and you know two-strat whatever and there's a couple there in Farhad and Bill there's a couple there Marco and Marcel and then you've got the other team led by the chief exec but I think people have their opinion it's a veneer based opinion isn't it they don't know the individuals they only see what they see from afar or they see the outcomes you only have to see what happens to Twitter when you lose particularly if you support a team from the other side of the city and stuff like that so it's very it's a bit instance isn't it all I know is I've met them loads of times and he knows his stuff but more importantly this is Bill I'm talking about it's what other people say about it so I hear what Marcel says I hear what Farhad says I hear what some agents have said and so on Moise, from their own mouth not second hand and they all have a great deal of respect for him he's been cautious in the past and maybe that's part of it being in Evertonian it's hard to do that job because you might have a favour player and give them too much money but now you say Denise is putting structure around that that's actually Bill it's not your decision Marcel's still I'll tell you, I guarantee it Marcel will still go to Bill for advice and guidance because Bill knows every single agent they did it and so on but the final say will be Marcel and that's key I think and that's what's important and this is why when I still see people getting hung up on the fact that Bill's still there I just think there's too many other pieces in the dig show now to be worried about that whether it's right or it's wrong the book would always stick with Bill Kennedy before Moiseyri it's like now it'll stop with Farad really if Everton don't if Everton all of a sudden stopped buying players Farad will get criticised because he's the man in charge he's the man with the money so it was always going to fall on Bill Robert Elstone whether you liked him or you didn't was Bill's man it didn't and that partnership to me could have been better Bill could have got investors from other places but he was very cautious and looking at what has happened to some other clubs you'd have to say thank god in a way but now like I say now that he's here it feels like most of his power has been taken away from him anyway but what you're left with is the experience of the man the ability to negotiate the ability to advise if you want to use that word power perhaps all of it's gone it's not his club no more and he knows that I think he might have said it last night as well it's Farad's club but his influence hasn't gone away and you certainly don't throw the experience away I always said for years people might disagree with this but I always said and it's happened he's almost the perfect chairman if you've got a money man behind him so if you've got some money if you've got the money he would have been the greatest chairman in the world because he sells the club and he's good at talking to players I just didn't want him to have all the power right he hasn't got that now so for me it's a non issue I don't understand why people get money it's just the way people are isn't it if we buy a player that's really really good and performs and all that good stuff then it'll be myself some donkey that turns out some player turns out to be a donkey a big bill's fault and there's some default behaviours but there are players here or have been in the past who fans will have loved who will only hear because of Bill on the same token there will be players who didn't come because of him because that's the way it works isn't it what did you make of obviously Farad spoke about looked at the table it's not good enough 11th isn't good enough and it's good to hear him say that he's getting into a competitive outfit he's on the way to doing that we're not there yet I don't think but what I thought was really was really interesting you haven't actually tweeted it there but he said that the club of work really had to stay on the periphery of things and the way I read it and the way a lot of people read it and a lot of journalists have reported it he was having a dig at the previous regime in terms of saying how have we fallen so far behind and we've fallen so far behind by not being good enough and that stops now and I thought that was a I thought personally that was a really key thing for him to say it was like we've had enough of it this club should be up there in terms of with its fan base with its drive and what's gone before but we've worked really hard at staying outside of that by refusing to to almost embrace and refusing or not having the ability to spend money and stuff I think there's a longer answer than we've got time for but I think what he's expressing there is what people can particularly journalists who've seen how the media me the club have deliberately kept them away so they've not embraced journalists the journalists not giving them access and done this, done that, done the other and that very insular style inward looking style and management that the previous chief exec had and the new chief exec is opening the box and saying there's a big world out there so I think yesterday's general meeting some of the things that were said and particularly the things Farhad said and Denise to be honest around the vision and making statements which those people whose heads fall off and laugh at about winning the Premier League but without ambition what's the poison and you put yourself out there when you make those aspirational statements that it's different now and I think the only shame is the first general meeting we'd had after Farhad took over was like yesterday's we'd have been in a far happier place because I actually think the last year or two of Elston was a complete not a waste of time my French I've just said his name because he was so in my own opinion shortsighted, cautious whatever you want to call it and he had come through the bad times of counting every penny but there was a period used it at the footballing analogy again allegedly we may have got relegated last season and Allardy saved us when the most negative person realised we were not going to get relegated anymore they wanted to see Allardy's take the blocks off and try and play some football and Allardy's got a bullet because he was incapable of changing and the previous chief exec was incapable of changing he was stuck in that cautious, hold everyone off don't answer any questions and so on and the new chief exec's the opposite and that's refreshing whatever your personal opinions are of either of those two characters the simple difference in style is hugely refreshing and maybe it sounds a bit daff doesn't it considering the other three courses of the business maybe that refreshing environment allows for how to say some things that he could and maybe should have said previously I think Robert obviously was protected by Bill an awful lot as well because he'd been there through like you've just said counting every penny watching his back a little bit but I think it feels like to me that the club properly reset in the summer that's what Denise was talking about Denise was talking about we've now got the team to meet it feels like the club's gone and with Farrad, with Marcel, with Marco it feels like he's got because he wanted Marcel Brans when he first took over Farrad he tried to get him in 16 before and he couldn't have been anywhere near that club so therefore it feels now like he's actually gone this is what I wanted this is almost like they want for me in the summer when Marcel and Marco and Denise were the new structure so would you say just to close now would you say that you feel since May when the new structure took place there in May June do you feel as though the club's made significant progress more so than say the previous 12 months before that significant and interesting word isn't it okay significant when it's compared to what's gone before rather than I think or progress then, progress first definitely progress whenever I told about the previous chief I often use this soundbite and it might work with comparing him to Denise there are people who do the right thing and there are people who do things right Denise is the former the other chief exec was the other one therefore he never understood why when he did things right we didn't like the outcome and Denise appears to do you've got to do both in many respects but doing the right thing is that comes under that umbrella it's not what you do, it's the way that you do it isn't it and I think the real key though is it wouldn't be difficult to look as a more approachable open transparent organisation after the previous chief exec so we have improved no doubt Denise has laid the foundations down clearly what she's tried to do and I hope she's achieved it and the outcomes will tell us is create an environment where people perform better they're happier I think Bill said last night everyone's happier they're happier and they perform the next phase of this organisational change which was a my career done in countless times is there will be people who can't perform in that type of environment because it requires individuals to be accountable, responsible and those sorts of things and the sooner you shape those people out the better and that's not necessarily good at their job but they don't fit the culture you're trying to build and again the analogy goes back to the football team you've got a competent player confident player can do stuff but doesn't fit and there will undoubtedly be people who don't fit into the way Denise wants that cultural and behavioural environment to work and highlighting them and encouraging them to self-select or giving them the bad news sooner rather than later is the right answer because just like in the first team it's harsh to say a bad egg but one person can drag the whole thing down just because people still get picked how's that work we all talk about it don't we and I've done it in professional career I've seen people saying why is that guy still here when he keeps failing he's the boss's favourite all that stuff it's got to be a meritocracy it's got to be all about performance and so next year will be a real good measure of Denise because she's just got the tag about the tale six months ago and just like we say that the manager or the director of football has to go through a number of summer windows before we can see their worth perhaps Denise has to go through a couple of general needs because she's never blamed anybody which is really cool she's not like managers do talked about who preceded she's just talked about what she's had to do to put it in a better place and I think it is in a better place but we need to see the outcomes but she's made a good start or the club in general has made a good start and it is a difficult time with all the stuff that's going on stadium and everything it's going to be interesting to see where we go that was a marathon 90 minutes it'll be part one and part two because I don't think anyone will want to shift for now and half we enjoy it big thanks to Joe for coming in and updating us all on the AGM stuff give us a subscribe if you haven't already and don't forget to get over to Peyton if you want more videos so there you go Everton's AGM last night all very positive and we're going to win the league it was said by the other board and I'm never going to argue with what the board said it's inevitable not on a football perspective when we're going to win the league so that's good news thanks for watching


Do people in 2022 really use design patterns? What's the point of using design patterns when we have modern programming languages like Rust and TypeScript? Let's look at some real uses of a visitor design pattern. I mean, it must be crusty old Java code, right? The first example we're gonna look at is Google Chrome. In Chromium, there's a zoom feature where you can zoom in and out using the keyboard or mouse. If in Google Chrome, you zoom in on a webpage, it zooms in and out at all open tabs and windows you have for that domain. How does that work? Well, there are three parts. First part, code runs when we click the button to zoom. This code creates a render view zoomer that calls for reach on the render views. Render view refers to a window in Chrome, a window or tab. Second part is our visitor. Render view zoomer inherits from render view visitor and there is a virtual function visits. What does visit do? The visitor will call set zoom level on each window if the domain matches the zoomed tab. How does it go through every view and run that code? The third part of this pattern is the object structure. In this case, it's this for each function. The for each function takes in the zoomer and the zoomer does the work of zooming. The render view for each is pretty basic. It loops through every view and runs the visit function. Now here we separated looping functionality from what we do with each render view, which means we can do other things. This code uses render view for reach to collect all of the views associated with an extension. So here we have some views open for an extension you block origin. When we uninstall the extension, the tab closes and the window disappears. So why did we use a visitor? We're able to use the same code of looping over the views for multiple purposes. In one case, we change the zoom level of all the different tabs. And in another case, we close the tabs. What could the authors of this code have done instead? The authors could have exposed the list of render views. However, this would break encapsulation. They could have added methods to the render view class. However, this would put code in the wrong spot and it wouldn't be extensible. They could have also used the iterator pattern. And I think the iterator pattern would have been 100% okay. However, implementing the iterator pattern in C++ is a little complicated. So the visitor pattern is a bit easier to implement. You may have seen for reach in other programming languages such as JavaScript, and that does implement part of the visitor pattern. It's just a very small application of the visitor pattern. So small, you don't even notice that it's a special pattern. Sometimes design patterns are just there even though you don't notice them. Let's look at another example, this time on a website. Here we have a webpage. This is generated from Markdown code. We wanna make this prettier by adding a link in the heading and we also wanna indent the code blocks and we want to highlight the error in the code right here. So how do we do that? In order to convert the code into HTML, we use a library to convert the parsed Markdown into HTML. Now by default, the render function generates HTML but we wanna customize the HTML. To do that, we override a bunch of the rules such as the heading open and heading close rules. Here we customize the HTML by adding a hyperlink that refers to itself. For the code blocks, we do a bunch of shenanigans to inject Mark elements into the HTML and finally we wrap it in a figure. The end result is a linkified header and error squigglies in the documentation. Now here again are three parts to the visitor pattern. There is the visitor itself, which are the rules that are defined by the library but we customized. There's the code orchestrating the whole thing and finally there's the code calling the visitor, which is part of the Markdown library. Now why did we use the visitor pattern here? Well, it let us reuse the HTML generation code in the Markdown library and it let us easily walk a tree structure and edits individual pieces of the tree structure without us using recursion or a loop ourselves. What could we have done instead? We could have exposed a tree structure but that would mean walking the tree is cumbersome. We have to recurse and we can't easily reuse the HTML generator that the library provided. We could have used the iterator pattern but the iterator pattern does a bad job of iterating through trees. And we could have generated HTML and modified the HTML after the fact but that's error prone and often slower than generating the correct HTML in the first place. Let's look at a third application, which is the FD tool. The FD tool looks for files in the file system. Here you can see its default output which is to walk the file system and prints file by file and when it encounters a directory print the files inside the directory recursively. Now how does it do this? The FD tool uses the ignore library. The ignore crate provides a walk parallel struct that serves as the object structure. What it does is it scans the file system, looks for files and reports the files it finds to the visitor. Here we have a parallel walker and we're giving it a visitor in the form of an anonymous function. The previous examples we gave a class or an object here we're giving an anonymous function because there's only one callback. The function gets called for every file, it does a bunch of filtering and eventually, eventually, eventually it sends the results off to a different thread so that it can be presented in order. Now one major advantage of this approach is that it can be parallelized. It's very hard to parallelize iteration using the iterator pattern but with a visitor pattern it is relatively trivial. Another advantage of the visitor pattern we can prude trees very easily by returning different return values signaling that we need to skip the subtree or continue going and descending into the directory. If you're interested in more design patterns check out my playlist on design patterns and practice.