The First portfolio questions is to justice and the law officers. In order to get as many people in as possible, we will be grateful for short questions and answers wherever possible. Question 1, Margaret Mac Doogle. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will publish the business cases that were prepared in advance of the establishment of Police Scotland and the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service. The Outline business case is prepared for the reform of the police and fire service that was published in September 2011 and is available on the Scottish Government website. I thank the cabinet secretary for that answer. Would it not have been better to have a fully fleshed out business case published at the outset rather than just having an outline given the situation that we are now in with the Police Scotland? The Outline business case is set out in considerable detail both the financial and non-financial benefits that would come from police reform. It was also used to inform the financial memorandum that went alongside the police and fire reform legislation as well. As the Scottish Government also indicated to the Public Audit Committee, it was important that we also move forward with the reform in order to realise the savings as early as possible, given the financial budget cuts that we were experiencing from the UK Government. It is also worth keeping in mind the views of the auditor general in this matter when he stated that, given the stage of police reform, it is my view that the financial strategy is the more important document for the SPA and Police Scotland to now focus its time, effort and resources into developing. That is exactly what Police Scotland is doing as part of the corporate strategy that was produced last March and the work that it is now taking forward in its financial planning for the long term, which will of course be informed by the conference of spending review when it is published later this year. It is before the time of the cabinet secretary, but he might be aware that we were promised a detailed business case. There is no doubt that, given the events of the last two years, such a detailed business case would have been helpful, and we would know where we stand in terms of the savings. My understanding is that, in response to a request from the Public Audit Committee, which goes back to December 2013, the response from the Scottish Government was, in reference to the work that Police Scotland was undertaking in relation to its corporate strategy, which includes its long-term financial planning within Police Scotland. It was also the Government's view that to delay the reform of the Police and Fire Service in order to develop a full business case would have actually limited the time in which some of the financial savings could have been achieved given the financial pressures that existed at that particular time. As I mentioned, the Auditor General has stated that the priority in moving forward at this stage in reform is the financial strategy. That is the work that Police and Fire Service are undertaking work on now, which of course will be informed by the conference of spending review when it is published later this year. Many thanks. Question 2, John Finland. To the Scottish Government, when the Cabinet Secretary for Justice last met the chief constable and what he discussed? I regularly meet with the chief constable and other senior officers from Police Scotland to discuss matters relating to policing and public safety. I last met the chief constable on 9 September. Many thanks. John Finland. Can I thank the cabinet secretary for that response? Stephen House recently said in a newspaper article dated 28 August that he could pull together an option that would completely balance the budget but questioned if that would be politically acceptable for the Scottish Government and the SPA. Can the cabinet secretary tell us what the chief constable meant by that and specifically what measures he is considering that might not be politically acceptable? To be frank, he would have to ask a chief constable because he has not shared that information with me. Is the cabinet secretary concerned about the high level of assaults and police officers that are reported by the Scottish Police Federation together with its comments that many of those prosecution charges appear to be downgraded or dropped? Can he confirm that he has or intends to discuss that with the chief constable and the Lord Advocate? It is important that we consider those matters. Of course, the Lord Advocate is here to hear the member's concerns on that issue. If the member fails, there is an issue that she wishes to pursue further. I would be more than happy to meet with her to discuss that matter in more detail. Does the cabinet secretary agree that one of the chief constables' greatest achievement has been the continued decrease in knife crime, with the recently increased crime statistics disclosing that crimes of handling offensive weapons have seen a decrease of 67 per cent since 2006-07? It is worth keeping in mind that we have recorded crime in Scotland at a 40-year loan. Rodd Campbell makes an important point in relation to the significant rock that we saw in crimes of handling offensive weapons. We should not also lose sight of the fact of the correlation that it has with incidents of homicide in Scotland, where we saw a reduction. However, there is absolutely no doubt that we have saw significant progress in recent years. One of the statistics that I think is very telling on the progress that we have made in issues relating to offensive weapons is that statistics last week showed that the number of young people under 19 convicted of handling an offensive weapon fell from 812 in 2006-07 down to 165 in 2013-14. That is a very significant drop of nearly 80 per cent. I think that that reflects the very proactive work that Police Scotland has been undertaking and the legacy forces in the past to make sure that we underline the risks and concerns around carrying offensive weapons and that those reductions demonstrate the progress that has been made. Excellent. Many thanks. Neil Findlay. The chief constable discussed the disappearance of coins worth over £1 million from the national museum that it transpires. It may have occurred at a time when management opened the museum without adequate staffing as staff were in strike over weekend allowances. Does the cabinet secretary know if Police Scotland were involved in any risk assessment of a decision that has apparently resulted in national treasures being nicked? No, our conversation did not involve those matters. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the next steps and the process of the investigation into the death of Sheikhou Bayou. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Police Investigations and Review Commissioner has now submitted an interim report to the Crown and, as a result of that, further inquiries have been instructed. There remains further work to be done by Perk, particularly in relation to the cause of death before their investigation is complete. The family of Sheikhou Bayou have been kept advised throughout the investigative process, and together with a legal adviser met with me and Crown Office officials on two occasions, the last being on 26 August 2015, that meeting gave me the opportunity to update the family and progress made to date the further work that requires to be carried out and also to listen to and respond to a number of issues that they raised. I have reassured the family of my undertaking previously given that the inquiry will be thorough and will be completed as soon as possible. Would the Lord Advocate agree that it is important that the investigation is thorough, completed as quickly as possible and retains the confidence of the family of Sheikhou Bayou? Would he care to comment on the role of police investigations and review commissioner in the investigation? I thank the member for the supplementary question. Yes, I would wholeheartedly agree that the investigation must retain the confidence of the family of Sheikhou Bayou, regardless of the outcome of the investigation that can fail to sympathise with the family for their loss. Having met the family on two occasions, I know the effect that this tragedy has had on them, and they have borne their loss with great dignity. They are right to demand answers on a thorough and partial and objective investigation is what they deserve. It is my job and the job of Perk to deliver a thorough and partial and objective investigation delivered expeditiously without compromising thoroughness, and I am confident that that can be delivered. I know that Kate Frame, the head of Perk and Sir Stephen House, the chief constable, have recently met the family, and I welcome that. I know that they are positive and welcome for this on behalf of the family. I also note that Kate Frame has stated publicly that she has listened to the concerns of the family and will involve them in the appointment of experts for the further work that has to be done in attempting to establish a cause of death. I welcome that in full confidence in Perk that that will be done. Finally, as I have confirmed to the family and in correspondence, regardless of the decision on criminal proceedings, there will be a fatal accident inquiry. A fatal accident inquiry will allow all the evidence to be presented in a court, open to the public and the media, to be rigorously tested by all parties represented at the FAI, including the family, and will allow the sheriff to make findings, in fact, and recommendations in relation to Sheikhu's death in a judgment that will be available to all. I have met the Lord Advocate and corresponded with him on this, and I thank him for his willingness to do so. Can I ask the Lord Advocate to investigate why it took more than a month for officers who were involved in the incident to speak to Perk? The cabinet secretary has repeatedly said that he does not believe that it is due to a lack of powers on behalf of Perk. Does the Lord Advocate then think that this time delay was acceptable, and does he understand the reasons why that happened and why it took so long? I think that that is a matter that Perk is looking into and forms part of their interim report, as indicated. We still wait for a final report. There are evidential reasons for that. I do not think that it would be appropriate, given that it is a live inquiry, to go into that at this stage, but I am aware of the member's concern about the issue. I am certainly aware of the family's concern about the issue, and it will be certainly addressed going forward. To ask the Scottish Government when it expects net financial savings from the closure of local courts. The final phase of court closures was completed in January 2015, and by the end of 2014-15, the closures had already delivered net annual recurring cash savings to the Scottish courts and tribunal service of more than £600,000 and time-releasing savings of over £100,000. That also resulted in a reduction in outstanding backlog maintenance by over £2.8 million, and Scottish courts and tribunal service are on track to deliver the estimated savings, given during the public consultation process. Those savings are being reinvested by SCTS, allowing targeted investment in a smaller estate to improve both facilities and technology. The SCTS focus is on building a stronger court service that improves access to justice, reduces delays in costs and maximises the use of technology to improve services. The truth is that, in Haddington, which is closed in January, many months have passed, the court is still on the Scottish court services' books, and the commensurate maintenance costs continue to be a cost against the court service. The truth is that any savings, if at all, already made, and any savings that can be made, will be dwarfed by lost business in Haddington High Street, extra costs incurred by police, social work and individual citizens trying to access justice. The justice secretary has made something of a reputation by reversing the daft or decisions of his predecessor. Will the minister not ask his colleague to reverse that? It is worth stressing that, as Mr Gray knows, these are operational matters of the Scottish Courts and Tribunals service, but I recognise the points that Mr Gray has made. I heard them myself in the course of the debate around the future of Haddington's chef court, but I would say to Mr Gray that we are still working with the local authority on legal issues in relation to the buildings. I hear the point that he makes about savings in terms of maintenance, but that is clearly a long-term decision for the future shape of the delivery of court services in Scotland, and the intent is to dispose of the premises and to move on. I reassure the member that the court business that is transferred from Haddington is, based on the evidence that I have seen, being dealt with efficiently in the Adamous chef court. Can the minister outline any measures that have been introduced by the Scottish Government to help to deal with any additional pressures that might have been put on the remaining courts? That is a very fair point that Gordon MacDonald raises, Presiding Officer. The cases that have been dealt with in relation to domestic abuse and areas around sexual crimes have led to increase in activity in the Adamous chef court and other chef courts. The Crown Office Procurator Fiscal Service and the Scottish Court and Tribunal Service have given additional resources of £1.47 million to provide sufficient cover to ensure that the human resources are there. It is worth stressing that that would have happened, even without the court closure. It is not as a consequence of court closures but as a result of the efforts that are being made by Police Scotland and the Crown to encourage women and others to report cases of domestic abuse and ensure that those cases can be dealt with in our courts. I reassure the member that resources when they are required are being provided. To ask the Scottish Government what its position is on Police Scotland's restructuring and centralisation of the firearms licensing function. The Scottish Police Authority approved Police Scotland's proposal for the restructuring of the firearms licensing section at its meeting on 27 August. Such decisions are rightly for the police and the authority. However, Scottish ministers have received and assurance that public safety remains a fundamental part of their considerations. Until now, dedicated firearms inquiry officers carried out in-depth inquiries into licence applications. Their key role being to identify applicants who may pose a risk to public safety or indeed to themselves. The new centralised model involves the substantial loss of civilian expertise and the transfer of functions to police officers who are to do that on a part-time and ad hoc basis as part of their other duties. I would ask the cabinet secretary to address two areas of concern. Firstly, when there are spikes in police activity in major events or major incidents, will the firearms work be sidelined? Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, I understand that the training being offered to police constables taking over the role is at best minimal. A few days in the classroom is no substitute for decades of experience. Is the cabinet secretary absolutely confident that the new arrangements and training provision will not compromise public safety? As I said to the member in my earlier response, we have assurances from Police Scotland that public safety remains a central focus of the way in which they are handling firearms certificate applications, and they have assured us that that is the objective. One of the aims of moving to a much more streamlined and central approach to that is to make sure that there is a consistency of approach in the way in which that is handled across the country, because there were different approaches and the eight different legacy forces in dealing with those types of issues. I understand that, since the turn of this year, there have been some 350 police officers who have gone through a specific training programme in order to train them in undertaking the work around firearm certificate applications, renewals and additional administration staff for being provided to support that work. It is worth noting, though, that training is not just a one-off, it is part of an on-going training programme that those officers will undertake in order to make sure that their skills are sufficient for the role in which they are undertaking. It is important to recognise that it is about getting a more consistent approach and a much more effective and flexible approach. Of course, the issue around spikes when there are other demands on police time. Given that public safety continues to be a key part of how they are delivering the firearm certificate process, I would expect that to continue to be and maintained as a priority when it comes to dealing with those issues. How much additional resources and plans to spend on the police control room and service centre in Aberdein in the current financial year? On 3 September, I announced that the Scottish Government will immediately make available £1.4 million to Police Scotland to support implementation of the recommendations arising from the HMICS interim report on call handling. It is for Police Scotland, with the oversight of the Scottish Police Authority, to decide on how this money should be allocated to the various activities that are required to implement the HMICS recommendations. The cabinet secretary confirmed that almost half of the highly trained call handlers have left the service centre in Aberdein since the beginning of last year. Does he accept that the report requires him to replace those staff? Will he explain whether the provision that he has made assumes that they will be replaced by recruiting and training civilian staff for the police service by taking police officers off the front line to answer calls or by using our recruitment agency to fill positions on a temporary basis and on a casual basis? Police Scotland is currently reviewing its plans for the handover to the call centres, including the changes that were proposed in Aberdein in order to evaluate how they can most effectively deal with the recommendations that have been made by HMICS. I understand that Police Scotland intends to exhilarate the recruitment of between 70 to 75 staff in order to support that transfer process. In the meantime, while they are recruiting additional staff for both the Government Motherwell Centre and for Bilston Glen and staffing up the new Dundee control centre, both the Inverness and Aberdein centres will remain in place. It will only be after they have completed that transition planning, which has been considered by HMICS that they will consider whether that actual final transfer date will be completed within the existing timeframes that have been set. However, as HMICS has also outlined, there needs to be a very thorough transition plan put in place, which will be considered both by the SPA and by HMICS before the final transition takes place involving the staff at Dundee and Aberdein. Many thanks, and that concludes portfolio questions to the justice and law officers. I regret not being able to call more people. We now move to the next set of portfolio questions, which is rural affairs, food and the environment. I call on question 1 to James Dornan, Mr Dornan. To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on discussions that has had regarding the reported decline in the B population. The Secretary for Rural Affairs, Richard Lochhead, when you are ready, Mr Lochhead. We are working closely with the honey bee sector on a strategy that aims to achieve a sustainable and healthy population of managed honey bees. Indeed, in recent years, we have seen an increase in managed stocks in Scotland. James Dornan, I thank the cabinet secretary for that answer. As well as Mark O'Gee and ICA are the owner of the battlefield rest, a local restaurant, installing bee hives in their roofs, I was recently presented with a petition put together by five-year-old Conrad House, a pupil at Meryl East School, who managed to get over 150 signatures from friends, family and neighbours for his petition, bringing his attention to the importance of bees for the food chain. Will the cabinet secretary join with me in welcoming that recognition by my constituents of all ages of the role bees play, and would the cabinet secretary accept my invitation to come to my constituency to meet Conrad and his family to discuss the petition further? Thank you. I am delighted to hear that restaurants in battlefields are installing bee hives on their roofs, as indeed has the Scottish Parliament, with the Deputy Presiding Officer sitting here. I think that there is a raising awareness across Scotland and indeed the world of the role of bees play in delivering food security, given that I understand that a third of our food relies on pollinators. That is why I also congratulate young Conrad, Mr Dornan's constituent, who has carried out very good work highlighting the importance of our bee populations and, of course, has been doing that in his local community and gathering support for saving bees in his area. I know that we tried to set up a meeting previously, but I was unavailable when Conrad handed in the petition that he put together. Of course, I would be happy and indeed delighted to meet him if the opportunity arises and if I should be visiting Mr Dornan's constituency in the near future, and I will ensure that that is arranged. In the meantime, I am sure that we all congratulate Conrad and all other young people in Scotland who are taking such a close interest in bee health. As before, brief questions and answers will be welcomed. The University of Stirling and the University of Sussex conducted research into planting wildflowers rather than grass on roundabouts and verges. That resulted in a spectacular increase in bumble bees and hoverflies, so I am asking what the Scottish Government might do to support further initiatives like that to help increase and sustain our bee population. The initiative that is highlighted by the member illustrates the increasing work that is taking place across Scotland by a number of organisations and academic institutions to promote bee health, and that is why the Government is supporting a bee health strategy. If there is more that we should be doing, I would like to hear about such projects that perhaps require support moving forward, but there are a number of support mechanisms in place already. To ask the Scottish Government what input is agriculture, food and rural community directorate has into the work of Community Broadband Scotland. Both the Agriculture, Food and Rural Communities Directorate and the Digital Directorate helped to shape the design of the broadband scheme that has been delivered by Community Broadband Scotland under the Scottish Rural Development programme from 2014 to 2020. The broadband scheme was launched by the First Minister in Oben on 24 August. Obviously, broadband is essential for rural and island communities and businesses, only yesterday that internet and iron mic constituency was down for most of the day. Whilst next summer 97 per cent of iron will receive superfast broadband, the 150 or so people in Macri will not, as things stand. What steps will the cabinet secretary and his colleagues take to ensure that Macri is included in iron superfast broadband roll-out? Kenneth Gibson quite rightly highlights the importance of broadband to rural communities and rural development, and it is great news that so many people in iron are benefiting from the latest investment. Of course, the purpose of Community Broadband Scotland and the broadband scheme, which is a separate scheme worth £9 million through the rural development programme, is to reach out to those communities who may not benefit from the wider programme and the more harder to reach areas. That is a significant investment. The broadband scheme refers to bringing various communities together to find their own solution and to support that, and broadband Scotland is for individual community schemes. I hope that Mr Gibson's constituents are able to take advantage of those two significant funds so that all people on their island communities are able to connect to fast broadband. Does the Scottish Government intend to carry out an assessment of the number of online applicants for the single-farm payment that is forced to use library and college broadband facilities due to slow broadband speeds or total lack of access to broadband? Can the cabinet secretary give reassurance that the Scottish Government will give appropriate support in the future to those who are affected? In terms of farmers and crofters applying for their online applications for their farm payments, extraditional support was made available at local regional offices for those who could not have adequate broadband for their homes. Although I am willing to send the statistics of those who applied online for the new system to the member, if I recall correctly, the figure of overall applications online was at least the same, if not higher than the old system, despite all the doom and gloom expressed by many people. It is certainly the way forward and we are giving adequate support, I believe, to ensuring that people are able to access broadband to apply online for their farm payments. Minister's answer in terms of the online applications that are being increasingly asked of by crofters and farmers, what is he going to do with community broadband Scotland to reach the areas that Kenny Gibson was mentioning, given that there are still many, many parts of the Houndslands where no such broadband is available at all? As Tavish Scott will be aware, for many, many years there was enormous frustration in Scotland's rural communities over the lack of progress over broadband. Therefore, the substantial investment that has been made available over the last couple of years, which is making a huge difference to mainland and island communities, is very much welcome. That is why we also set up the specific funds community broadband Scotland to target those harder to reach areas that would not benefit directly from the main investment. That is why we are working hard with the new broadband scheme, which is worth £9 million, as well as the existing community broadband scheme, to allow bespoke solutions to be found in our rural and island communities. To ask the Scottish Government how the growth of Japanese knotweed is controlled. Scottish Natural Heritage is the lead agency for advising on managing Japanese knotweed in Scotland. Much of that control work is undertaken by owners of land in which the plant occurs, and SNH encourages and coordinates action by other groups or bodies. For example, the Tweet invasives project has been delivering comprehensive control of Japanese knotweed across the Tweet catchment since 2003. Scottish Natural Heritage also has advice on their website for householders, much of which focuses on long-term solutions that people can carry out for themselves. In Scotland, there is little prospect of eradication at present, but our strategy is to use public funds that are appropriate to control the plant in priority areas and to encourage landowners or householders to tackle the issue by providing them with good advice on control methods. It may surprise the minister that many of my constituents have Japanese knotweed growing and land around their own properties unchecked that it is potential to cause serious damage. Should it not be the case that the owner of the land of Japanese knotweed, because in many cases the situation is that when a Japanese knotweed appears, no-one seems to own the land, is growing, should it not be the case that where a Japanese knotweed is growing they deal with the weed before it causes serious damage to private property? I have great sympathy for those whose property is being affected by Japanese knotweed. I acknowledge that it can cause damage to property, although I would caution that some of the stories of its destructive force appear to be a little bit exaggerated. In that sense, what I am referring to is that the GB non-native species secretariat, for example, has no evidence that it has ever been recorded growing through concrete, a claim that seems to be a favourite in some parts of the press. It is important to note that Japanese knotweed can be controlled and there is advice available and companies providing that service. There may also be recourse in the courts for people whose property is damaged by spreading on to their property from elsewhere. However, I do not think that it is practical or reasonable to be able to expect every landowner in Scotland to be able to clear their land of Japanese knotweed, because although it would be extremely costly, it is also very unlikely to be able to eradicate the plant. Minister, you may well be aware that mortgage lenders have refused to lend on the basis of Japanese knotwees in the vicinity of certain households. Local authorities currently have no powers of enforcement leaving it for the landowner to do. Does the minister think that that should change and we should give local authorities power to enforce eradication? The council of mortgage lenders state on their website that lenders determine their individual policies on the issue and they take into account a range of factors when considering whether to lend. I have no reason to believe that this is not an accurate representation. I also understand that some contractors can offer guarantees that some lenders will accept but ultimately lenders do determine their own policies and enter into a dialogue with them about what assurances they will accept is the way to find solutions. I do think that to make sure that we are taking a sensible approach to the entire issue, I have asked the Scottish Biodiversity Committee to prioritise species that we need to take action on, and specifically Japanese knotweed is being assessed along with other plants that you might also have some concerns about, such as giant hogweed and also Himalayan balsam. However, I cannot emphasise enough that we need to be a lot more organised and strategic in dealing with those problems. I think that we simply cannot afford to carry out control when that effort will be wasted. I am confident that this prioritisation will help us to do just that. To ask the Scottish Government how it plans to address the reported concerns at NFU Scotland regarding the effect of low prices on the farming industry. We are supporting a number of initiatives to mitigate the pressures that are currently faced by our farmers and crofters, and I have written to farming ministers elsewhere in the UK to stress the need for urgent steps to safeguard the industry. I do believe that there is an unprecedented opportunity for UK ministers to agree a list of commitments, for instance, that supermarkets and the food service sectors can sign up to support our food producers. The aid package, of course, proposed by Commissioner Hogan, is appreciated at European level, and we are currently assessing what the package means for Scotland. I think that the minister has his answer. Low prices obviously have an effect on farmers' cash flow. Can the minister therefore confirm that all single farm payments due in December will be made in December? I very much appreciate that the current low prices and other factors facing our agricultural sector cause cash flow issues, and that is why we are working flat out to do our best to try and ensure that payments begin in the formal payment window, which is before the end of December, and we will continue to work flat out to try and achieve that. Of course, it is a brand new system, it is very complex. Other UK Administrations are facing the same obstacles that we face here in Scotland, but I recognise the importance of giving this my full attention to help our farmers with their cash flow problems. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I certainly hope that we will see those payments before December, but in the meantime, in relation to the dairy crisis, what work has the cabinet secretary been doing to accelerate the implementation of the dairy action plan, in particular in relation to work to support dairy farmers, to have new dairy products so that they can have fresh milk used and gain good money for it? A lot of our dairy farmers are now facing financial difficulties through lack of action. I wrote to the minister about this last month, if you yet to receive a response. I would use this opportunity to say to members and, of course, the people of Scotland and consumers that we should get behind Scottish produce and help our farmers and food producers in their out-of-needs. Not only that, our food service companies and our retailers should do a lot more to show loyalty to our home producers and to get behind them, as I said, in their out-of-needs. In terms of specific help for the dairy sector, clearly there are a number of different levels of which we are attempting to help our dairy farmers. Firstly, there is a dairy action plan that Sarah Boyack mentioned. We have already offered support to the Campbellton Creamery and First Milk to help to provide it with a viable future. We are also working, as I said, with our retailers to try to increase sourcing of Scottish dairy produce. We are launching the international dairy brand for Scotland at the Inuga event in Cologne next month and taking a number of other measures as well. However, I urge other UK ministers and particularly Liz Truss, the Secretary of State for DEFRA, to inject a lot more urgency into this situation. If we can persuade jointly the food service companies in the UK and retailers to source a lot more home produce, that will help greatly in the short term of the industry. That is something that we can do quickly if only we have a lot more political will from Liz Truss. The minister mentioned below prices, and he will be aware that the first store lamb prices in the far north, including in Shetland, have been around £5 a head below last year's averages. Would he undertake to use some of the £500 million package that he mentioned from Commissioner Hogan to assist those crofters and farmers, particularly where additional freight costs have been brought to bear because they have had to bring in more fodder as a result of the poor summer? I wish that the €500 million package from Commissioner Hogan was just for Scotland, but unfortunately that is not the situation. It is very likely to be frank. It will only make a modest contribution to helping us here in Scotland to tackle the issues facing Scottish agriculture. I say that. Staviskot makes two good points. First, we have to discuss with the industry how to target any aid that comes to Scotland. Secondly, we have to recognise that the current problems face not only dairy farmers but the sheep sector as well. The Scottish Government would make great pains to persuade Europe of that as well as the UK Government. I also am making the points to the UK Government given how Scotland gets a very raw deal over the overall EU farming budget and how the UK Government kept the uplift that was given to the UK because of Scotland's low payments. It is absolutely vital that we get a fair share of the aid that comes to the UK to help to tackle this crisis. It would be a complete travesty if, once again, Scotland did not get its fair share and we were let down by the UK Government who failed to recognise the importance of agriculture to Scotland and the case that we have for a good share of that aid package. Many thanks. Question 5, Rob Gibson. Thank you, Presiding Officer, to ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with the Scotland's rural college regarding plans to close the Inverness Veterinary Laboratory since the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee met on 2 September this year. There has been contact at official level between Scotland's rural college, the SRUC and the Scottish Government staff since the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee on 2 September, and I congratulate the committee on taking evidence on the subject of which Rob Gibson, of course, is chair. SRUC provided an update on their appearance at the committee and outlined their initial plans for veterinary surveillance. The Scottish Government now awaits a more detailed update from them on their proposals on the change to the network of veterinary disease surveillance centres and the future of their own private business. Rob Gibson. I thank the cabinet secretary for his answer. Does he agree that nothing should be done by the SRUC to undermine the services or the excellent skills offered by the staff at Drummond Hill Vet Lab Inverness? I ask the cabinet secretary to seek agreement from the SRUC to stop any move of work such as serology from Inverness to Edinburgh planned for October until a final decision by ministers on the SAC plans to retrench into Edinburgh and close the Inverness site. Given the importance of having a proper and robust veterinary disease surveillance system in Scotland, I urge the SRUC, as I am sure they are doing, to heed seriously all the concerns that are being expressed to them by their proposals. The Scottish Government, of course, funds part of its work and we have a strategic management board that will oversee its proposals and, of course, will continue to oversee their amended proposals, as we expect to receive shortly. The point of the management board is to reassure ministers that any use system that is put in place with any changes is adequate for Scotland's needs. In terms of the serology work, that is a private commercial business that the college runs for its scheme members. As such, the Scottish Government has no influence on how that particular scheme operates. On that subject, I urge the SRUC to heed the concerns that are being expressed about that service, as well as to ensure that they give an adequate response to MSPs and stakeholders on that issue. The cabinet secretary is aware that the Oachon-Croove facility in my constituency is also under threat from SRUC's proposals. That was also raised at the committee's meeting. Can he update Parliament in any discussions that the Government officials might have had with Glasgow vet school? In addition to Oachon-Croove, providing a very important facility to local farmers is also a key facility in the training of Scotland's vets. In terms of disease prevention, it has played a crucial role in the past. Whilst I await the formal amended proposals from the SRUC, I know from my officials that conversations are taking place between the Glasgow vet school and the SRUC in response to some of the concerns that are expressed by local stakeholders and, indeed, Adam Ingram, MSP and others. Clearly, until I see the final amended proposals, I am unable to give any further details to Parliament, but I will keep a close eye on that. I urge Adam Ingram and others to continue to make their representations. Many thanks. My abject apologies to members whose questions I have not been able to call. We have to now move on to the next item of business, which is a debate on motion.


Well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us here today for this press conference to announce the launch of our brand new inclusive growth and development report 2015. I'd like to also welcome our audience watching us live online at weforum.org. Now, incoming equality has been a problem that is not exactly new. It's been growing now for decades. More recently the World Economic Forum has been listing it as one of the top global priorities in our global risks report. Every year since about 2009, 2010. We've done something about it. We've actually conducted a two year study into what we call inclusive growth and development. How to address the quality of unfair and unequal distribution of the proceeds of growth and how to grow a fairer and more dynamic society. Very, very pleased to be joined by my colleague Jennifer Blankey, chief economist at the World Economic Forum, who's going to start by offering us a few of the insights from the report. Thank you, Ollie. And what I'm going to do is I'll just walk you a little bit through why it is that we have decided to do this report. What goes into it in terms of the methodology and then some of the results and what comes out in terms of general findings and some findings for particular countries. So as Ollie mentioned, concerns about inequality and social exclusion have been with us for some time. This has been growing. And this is of great concern. It's come out in our global risks report that we put out every year. Why are we concerned about this? Because we see that rising income inequality is very highly linked with a number of risks that we're concerned about, such as social unrest at one extreme that we've seen in places like the Arab Spring, and that right now in Europe are leading to significant migration flows and in fact a big problem in Europe in terms of refugees. But at the other extreme in places like the United States, where we see that wages have just not been rising in line with growth and there is depressed consumption, which given how important the level of consumption is for GDP in the U.S. is just dampening growth. And so basically everybody out there, all the policy makers, really want more inclusive growth but nobody's really sure what to do about it. So this report is really the World Economic Forum's contribution to having some understanding of the many levers that countries can use in order to have a more inclusive growth process. And by that I mean a growth process that brings more of the society along with it that doesn't trickle up but really showers down. Now obviously we're looking at things like taxation and transfers and redistribution, which is very traditionally looked at as what you do when you're dealing with inequality and poverty. We're also looking at education and skills, which is clearly important. But I think the most important thing in this report is that there are many factors. And let me just go through the seven different pillars, which are made up of 15 sub pillars in the report so that you get a sense of what we're talking about. So just to start with, obviously we're looking at education and skills development, but we're pushing it a bit farther than normally people look at it because we're looking both at the quantity of education, how many kids are being touched, how much do they go to school, but also the quality of education and very importantly also the equity of outcomes. And by that we mean to what extent do socioeconomic backgrounds make a difference in the results that students are having. The second is employment and labor compensation. And there is very much the extent to which workers have productive and safe working environments and also the extent to which they're sharing in the proceeds of growth through rising wages and different kinds of compensation. The third area that often people do not think about is asset building and entrepreneurship. And here we're very much talking about new business creation, which is very important in terms of, especially in developing countries, but also in advanced economies, new business creation, own business ownership and things of that nature. The fourth is financial intermediation of real economy investment and there is really about financial inclusion and also how financing is used and the extent to which it's actually used for creating new activities that can be employment creating in the economy. The fifth area is corruption and rent, so the extent to which the economy, the proceeds of the economy are held in few hands, but also the extent that we're seeing both private sector and public sector corruption and bribes in the economy. The sixth is basic services and infrastructure. And there we're looking also, not just at transport infrastructure, which is important, but also health infrastructure, health services, as well as digital infrastructure. And finally, the seventh, last but not least, are the fiscal transfers, the extent to which the economy is making up for any shortfalls in the market mechanisms by taxing and providing the right kinds of redistribution mechanisms and making sure that these are progressive. And by that, I mean that they are reaching those that are most in need. So in terms of the results, unlike many of our other benchmarking reports, we don't actually summarize all of the results into one overall ranking. We do cover 112 economies and what we do is we separate them into four different income groups. So we have advanced economies, we have upper middle income, lower middle income and lower income. And then we don't even within those groups have one ranking per group because we don't know of these seven areas that I mentioned what are more important. Is it more important to be using taxation and transfers? Is education more important? Is employment creation more important? So what we do is we have rankings within each of the seven areas and the 15 areas that are under those. And we still are able to come up with a few general findings and let me just give you some of them. First, for example, if you look at the advanced economies, you find that the Nordic economies do very well on average in a few particular areas. I mean they do quite well across the board, but especially educational outcomes are very good in the Nordics. Employment outcomes, high wages, etc. Low levels of corruption. These are things that the Nordics are known for and it's probably not very surprising, but also they use taxation and redistribution after that to make sure that they're able to compensate for any market failure, so to speak. Another thing we can note in Europe is that there's a big divide between the northern European countries and the southern European countries. The northern European countries tend to really do a lot better across the board. And that's really important because often the southern European countries are sort of saddled with this idea that they need to be more social, and yet they're exactly not having the social outcomes one would expect. If you turn to the BRIC economies, which get a lot of attention, the large emerging market BRIC economies, you see that there's a very varied performance. They do well in some areas and less well in others. Brazil, for example, is struggling in a number of areas, not surprising, including things like corruption as well as unemployment issues. But very interestingly they do have some strengths. In Brazil they're using a lot of the taxation and redistribution mechanisms in a very interesting way, and so there are strengths we can point out. If you look at China, China has a number of strengths and probably overall is doing best of the different BRIC economies, although we don't wrap it up into one measure, but we do see that they do quite well across many of the areas. And again this is compared with the other upper middle income economies. And here we see that they're quite good in China, or the economy is quite good at fostering new business creation compared to other economies in its income group. There are strong employment outcomes, low unemployment, also youth unemployment relatively low in the country, high labor force participation. But of course there are things that need to continue to be tackled in China in order to create more inclusive outcomes, including things like tackling corruption, which clearly the government is already doing in earnest, but also extending the social safety net to more people in the economy. Finally I might mention just the US because I think quite often we look at the US and right now the US is getting back to growth after many sluggish years. And we do see that in the area of asset building and entrepreneurship not surprisingly the US being the world's innovation powerhouse is actually doing quite well. On the other hand we have seen high and rising inequality particularly in the US and this is of great concern as I mentioned before this has been dampening consumption and this is really holding back growth below levels that one might have expected before the crisis. And so really a number of things that will need to be tackled particularly in the wage area also in the redistribution area in the US in order to get the US back on a more inclusive growth track. I would just end with some main takeaways that we have in the report overall in terms of the findings, the preliminary findings of the report. I think first of all clearly all countries have room for improvement. No country scores above average in all of the different 15 areas that we measure and only a few come close. So even countries like the Nordics that tend to do very well in some areas they do have area for improvement in others. A second very important finding is that it's very possible and indeed preferable to be pro-inclusiveness and pro-growth at the same time. And if you look at the results of the inclusive growth report this one with the global competitiveness report you'll see that many of the countries that are very good at driving productivity and growth are also very good at driving an inclusive growth process. And so I think it's very important to think that you can be pro-growth, pro-business and pro-labor at the same time. The third is that fiscal transfers can be helpful and I did mention them many times but they're only part of the story and many other policies can be useful. And as I mentioned there are many things that should be done ahead of time through the market so that you can already have inclusive outcomes. And finally and I think particularly important sitting here in China is the idea that inclusive growth is not only a luxury of the wealthy economies. We see if you look across the board at countries at the different levels of development many countries are punching above their weight in a variety of areas particularly the ones that are more affected by policy rather than building things up over time. So if you look at financial inclusion, if you look at quality of the educational system, if you look at political ethics and things of that nature quite often some of the more developing economies are doing better than those that are at quite higher stage of development. And so I would just end by saying that this is an important piece of work that we're going to be carrying forward in discussions over the year to come and I'd say the years to come in order to really get a good discussion going about what are the different things that countries can do in order to have more inclusive growth process and really come up with specific solutions on how to do so particularly bringing together government, business, civil society. And finally obviously in line with the theme of the meeting this is very, very relevant and we will be carrying out the discussion throughout the next three days as well. Thanks. Thank you Jenna for charting a new course for inclusive growth. Now we'll just take a pause to see if there are any questions. Of course we have our translation devices here so you can ask your questions in Chinese. OK, so we'll move on. We'll have one of the questions we curated from our social media audience earlier in the day and it plays sort of the comment you made Jennifer about the fact that no country scores above average and all 15 of the separate indicators and the question is why has nothing been done sooner, inequality is not new, it's not a new problem. Well you know I think that and this is a personal opinion but the way that we've been, we have faced really great difficulty since the financial crisis but just when the advanced economies were slowing we had the emerging economies really taking off. We had everybody kind of looking to China, Brazil and different of the emerging economies, some of them larger than others. And we really, I think we got into a sense of complacency because it always felt like growth would come from someplace and I think we're finally in a situation where also we see that growth is sort of naturally slowing, sorry, naturally slowing in places like China which is to be expected but suddenly there's no sort of easy growth that will come along. First of all and second of all we do see that in places like the United States levels of inequality have now reached levels that we haven't seen since the 1920s and this is really worrisome. So it seems almost like we've reached a tipping point between the fact that growth is slowing and the fact that it's not reaching enough people that finally policymakers really realize that in order to get reelected probably they need to do something about it and business leaders realize that they have to do something about it if they want to stay in business. Which plays to a second question. Do governments really, do policymakers really have that will power when they have other priorities, pressing priorities, overburden balance sheets of their own austerity pressures, etc.? I think it's not an easy question to answer and I definitely think the world is way too short term right now. Whether it's because governments need to think about the next election, not in all countries but in many countries, that businesses, publicly quoted businesses anyway need to think about the next quarter and how investors are going to react. But I do think that again we really have reached this tipping point and there is a sense for example among the large emerging markets like Brazil that did not take advantage of the good times to make the changes. And now they're being pushed into making them during more difficult times and it almost feels like there's no choice anymore because people really won't stand it. They really are demanding a more of the pie in a sense and really that's good for the economy because that's what makes the economy more dynamic. If this is a report designed for leaders in business as well, what is the appetite amongst businesses and can you think of a gauge the will power amongst business to do what is often counterintuitive? Well I don't know if it's counterintuitive. Quite often we talk about the Henry Ford moment which is the moment that companies realize like Henry Ford did back in the day that if they don't pay people a living wage they can't buy their cars or they can't buy their goods. And we at the World Economic Forum have been seeing that business leaders, really among the top business leaders including our international business council have been telling us that this is something they're extremely concerned about. Because this affects both their top and their bottom lines. And we also see, and we're about to have a big symposium at the Harvard Kennedy School, also together with the Mastercard Center for Inclusive Growth, really looking at many cases what businesses can do. And there are cases where they're using their distribution chains for example, their distribution channels in order to improve the functioning of the different units and the different stores for example that are selling their goods. And this is both good for inclusive growth but this is good for their bottom line and I think it is sort of a case of doing well by doing good and they realize that if nobody is seeing rising wages that they're not going to be in business for very long. OK, thank you Jennifer. Last chance for any questions. OK, well with that I'd like to thank you for joining us in your business schedule. I'd like to thank you all for joining us here as well and for tuning in online this press conference is now over. Thank you.


The Hunting of the Snark from Rhymen Dresden by Lewis Carroll. Just the place for a snark, the bellman cried as he landed his crew with care, supporting each man on the top of the tide by a finger entwined in his hair. Just the place for a snark I have said it twice, that alone should encourage the crew. Just the place for a snark I have said it thrice, what I tell you three times is true. The crew was complete. It included a boots, a maker of bonnets and hoods, a barrister brought to arrange their disputes and a broker to value their goods. A billiard-marker whose skill was immense might perhaps have won more than his share, but a banker engaged at enormous expense had the whole of their cash in his care. There was also a beaver that paced on the deck or would sit, making lace in the bow, and had often, the bellman said, saved them from wreck, though none of the sailors knew how. There was one who was famed for the number of things he forgot when he entered the ship, his umbrella, his watch, all his jewels and rings and the clothes he had brought for the trip. He had forty-two boxes all carefully packed, with his name painted clearly on each. But since he omitted to mention the fact they were left all behind on the beach. The loss of his clothes hardly mattered because he had seven coats on when he came, with three pairs of boots, but the worst of it was he had wholly forgotten his name. He would answer to, hi, or any loud cry such as, fry me, or fritter my wig, to what you may call him, or what was his name, but especially thingamajig. While for those who preferred a more forcible word he had different names from these, his intimate friends called him Gandlens, and his enemies Toasted Cheese. His form is ungainly, his intellect small, so the bellman would often remark, but his courage is perfect, and that, after all, is the thing that one needs with a snark. He would joke with hyenas, returning their stare with an impudent wag of the head, and he once went to walk, poor in poor, with a bear, just to keep up its spirits, he said. He came as a baker, but owned when too late, and it drove the poor bellman half mad. He could only bake bread-cake, for which I may state no materials were to be had. The last of the crew needs a special remark, though he looked an incredible dunce. He had just one idea, but that one being snark, the good bellman engaged him at once. He came as a butcher, but gravely declared when the ship had been sailing a week he could only kill beavers. The bellman looked scared and was almost too frightened to speak, but at length he explained in a tremulous tone there was only one beaver on board, and that was a tame one he had of his own, whose deaths would be deeply deplored. The beaver, who happened to hear the remark, protested, with tears in its eyes, that not even the rapture of hunting the snark could atone for that dismal surprise. It strongly advised that the butcher should be conveyed in a separate ship, but the bellman declared that would never agree with the plans he had made for the trip. Navigation was always a difficult art, though with only one ship and one bell, and he feared he must really decline for his part undertaking another as well. The beaver's best course was no doubt to procure a second-hand dagger-proof coat, so the baker advised it, and next to ensure its life in some office of note. Thus the banker suggested, and offered for hire on moderate terms, or for sale, two excellent policies, one against fire and one against damage from hail. Yet still ever after that sorrowful day whenever the butcher was by, the beaver kept looking the opposite way, and appeared unaccountably shy. Right the second, the bellman's speech. The bellman himself they all praised to the skies, such a carriage, such ease and such grace, such solemnity too, one could see he was wise the moment one looked in his face. He had brought a large map representing the sea without the least vestige of land, and the crew were much pleased when they found it to be a map they could all understand. What's the good of Mercator's north poles and equators, tropics, zones and meridian lines? So the bellman would cry, and the crew would reply they are merely conventional signs. Other maps are such shapes with their islands and capes, but we've got our brave captain to sank, so the crew were protest, that he's brought us the best, a perfect and absolute blank. This was charming, no doubt, but they shortly found out that the captain they trusted so well had only one notion for crossing the ocean, and that was to tingle his bell. He was thoughtful and grave, but the orders he gave were enough to bewilder a crew. When he cried, Steer to starboard, but keeper had laboured. What on earth was the helmsman to do? Then the bowsprit got mixed with the rudder sometimes, a sing as the bellman remarked that frequently happens in tropical climes when a vessel is, so to speak, snarkt. But the principal failing occurred in the sailing, and the bellman, perplexed and distressed, said he had hoped at least when the wind blew due east that the ship would not travel due west. The danger was past, they had landed at last with their boxes, portmantos and bags, yet at first sight the crew were not pleased with the view which consisted of chasms and crags. The bellman perceived that their spirits were low, and repeated in musical tone some jokes he had kept for a season of woe, but the crew would do nothing but groan. He served out some grog with a liberal hand and bade them sit down on the beach, and they could not but own that their captain looked grand as he stood and delivered his speech. Friends, Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears. They were all of them fond of quotations, so they drank to his health, and they gave him three chairs while he served out additional rations. We have sailed many months, we have sailed many weeks. Four weeks to the month, you may mark. But never as yet, it is your captain who speaks, have we caught the least glimpse of a snark. We have sailed many weeks, we have sailed many days. Seven days to the week I allow, but a snark on the which we might lovingly gaze we have never beheld till now.  Let us take them in order. The first is the taste, which is meager and hollow but crisp, like a coat that is rather too tight in the waist with a flavour or will of the wisp. Its habit of getting up late you will agree that it carries too far when I say that it frequently breakfasts at five o'clock tea and dines on the following day. The third is its slowness in taking a jest. Should you happen to venture on one it will sigh like a thing that is deeply distressed and it always looks grave at a pun. The fourth is its fondness for bathing machines which it constantly carries about and believes that they add to the beauty of scenes. A sentiment open to doubt. The fifth is ambition. It next will be right to describe each particular batch distinguishing those that have feathers and bite from those that have whiskers and scratch. For although common snarks do no manner of harm yet I feel it my duty to say some are boo-jums. The bellman broke off in alarm for the baker and fainted away. Fit the third, the baker's tale.  In lengths he sat up and was able to speak his sad story he offered to tell, and the bellman cried, silence, not even a shriek, and excitedly tingled his bell. There was silent supreme, not a shriek, not a scream, scarcely even a whole or a groan, as the man they called Ho told his story of woe in an anti-deluvian tone. My father and mother were honest, though poor. Skip all that, cried the bellman in haste. If it once becomes dark there's no chance of a snark we have hardly a minute to waste. I skip forty years, said the baker in tears, and proceed without further remark to the day when you took me aboard of your ship to help you in hunting the snark. A dear uncle of mine, after whom I was named, remarked when I bade him farewell, oh, skip your dear uncle, the bellman exclaimed as he angrily tingled his bell. He remarked to me then, said that mildest of men, if your snark be a snark, that is right. Fetch it home by all means. You may serve it with greens, and it's handy for striking a light. You may seek it with thimbles, and seek it with care. You may hunt it with forks and hope. You may threaten its life with a railway share. You may charm it with smiles and soap. That's exactly the method, the bellman bold in haste parentheses cried. That's exactly the way I have always been told that the capture of snark should be tried. But, oh beemish nephew, beware of the day if your snark be a boujum, for then you will softly and suddenly vanish away, and never be met with again. It is this, it is this that oppresses my soul when I think of my uncle's last words, and my heart is like nothing so much as a bowl brimming over with quivering curds. It is this, it is this we have had that before, the bellman indignantly said, and the baker replied, let me say it once more. It is this, it is this that I dread. I engage with the snark every night after dark. In a dreamy delirious fight I serve it with greens in those shadowy scenes, and I use it for striking a light. But if ever I meet with a boujum, that day, in a moment, of this I am sure, I shall softly and suddenly vanish away, and the notion I cannot endure fit the forth, the hunting. The bellman looked uffish and wrinkled his brow, if only you'd spoken before, it's excessively awkward to mention it now with the snark, so to speak, at the door. We should all of us grieve, as you well may believe if you never were met with again, but surely my man, when the voyage began, you might have suggested it then. It's excessively awkward to mention it now as I think I've already remarked, and the man they called high, replied with a sigh, I informed you the day we embarked. You may charge me with murder or want of sense. We are all of us weak at times, but the slightest approach to a false pretense was never among my crimes.  But I wholly forgot, and it vexes me much, that English is what you speak. Tis our pitiful tale, said the bellman, whose face had grown longer at every word. But now that you've stated the whole of your case, more debate would be simply absurd. The rest of my speech, he explained to his men, you shall hear when I've leisure to speak it, but the snark is at hand, let me tell you again, tis your glorious duty to seek it. To seek it with symbols, to seek it with care, to pursue it with forks and hope, to threaten its life with a railway-share, to charm it with smiles and soap. For the snarks a peculiar creature, that won't be caught in a common place way, do all that you know and try all that you don't, not a chance must be wasted today. For England expects, I forbear to proceed, tis a maxim tremendous but trite, and you best be unpacking the things that you need to rig yourselves out for the fight. Then the banker endorsed a blank check, which he crossed, and changed his loose silver for notes. The baker, with care, combed his whiskers and hair, and shook the dust out of his coats. The boots and the broker were sharpening a spade, each working the grindstone in turn. But the beaver went on making lace, and displayed no interest in the concern. Though the barrister tried to appeal to its pride, and vainly proceeded to cite a number of cases, in which making laces have been proved an infringement of right. The maker of bonnets ferociously planned a novel arrangement of bows, while the billiard marker, with quivering hand, was chalking the tip of his nose. But the butcher turned nervous, and dressed himself fine with yellow kid gloves and a ruff. Said he felt it exactly like going to dine, which the bellman declared was all stuff. Introduce me now, there's a good fellow, he said, if we happen to meet it together, and the bellman, sergetiously nodding his head, said, that must depend on the weather.  Be a man, cried the bellman in wrath as he heard the butcher beginning to sob. Should we meet with a job job, that desperate bird, we shall need all our strength for the job. Fit the fist, the beaver's lesson. They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care, they pursued it with forks and hope, they threatened its life with a railway share, they charmed it with smiles and soap. Then the butcher contrived an ingenious plan for making a separate sally, and had fixed on a spot, unfrequented by man, a dismal and desolate valley. But the very same plan to the beaver occurred, it had chosen the very same place, yet neither betrayed by a sign or a word the disgust that appeared in his face. Each thought he was thinking of nothing but snark, and the glorious work of the day, and each tried to pretend that he did not remark that the other was going that way. But the valley grew narrow and narrow as still, and the evening got darker and colder till, merely from nervousness, not from goodwill, they marched along shoulder to shoulder. Then a scream, shrill and high, rent the shuddering sky, and they knew that some danger was near. The beaver turned pale to the tip of its tail, and even the butcher felt queer. He thought of his childhood, left far, far behind, that blissful and innocent state. The sound so exactly recalled to his mind a pencil that squeaks on a slate. "'Tis the voice of the job-job,' he suddenly cried, this man that they used to call dunce, as the bellman would tell you, he added with pride, I have uttered that sentiment once. "'Tis the note of the job-job, keep count,' I entreat, you will find I have told it you twice, tis the song of the job-job. The proof is complete, if only I've stated it thrice.' The beaver had counted with scrupulous care, attending to every word. But it fairly lost heart and outgrabe in despair when the third repetition occurred. It felt that, in spite of all possible pains, it had somehow contrived to lose count.  Two added to one. If that could but be done, it said, with one's fingers and sums, recollecting with tears how, in earlier years, it had taken no pains with its sums. "'The thing can be done,' said the butcher. I think, the thing must be done, I am sure. The thing shall be done. Bring me paper and ink, the best there is time to procure.' The beaver brought paper, portfolio, pens, and ink in unfailing supplies, while strange, creepy creatures came out of their dens and watched them, with wondering eyes. So engrossed was the butcher, he heeded them not as he wrote with a pen in each hand, and explained all the while in a popular style which the beaver could well understand. Taking three as the subject to reason about a convenient number to state, we add seven and ten and then multiply out by one thousand, diminished by eight. The result, we proceed to divide, as you see, by nine hundred and ninety and two, then subtract seventeen, and the answer must be exactly and perfectly true. The method employed I would gladly explain, while I have it so clear in my head. If I have but the time and you had but the brain, but much yet remains to be said. In one moment I've seen what has hitherto been enveloped in absolute mystery, and without extra charge I will give you at large a lesson in natural history. In his genial way he proceeded to say, forgetting all laws of propriety, and that giving instruction without introduction would have caused quite a thrill in society. As to temper the job-jobs are desperate birds since it lives in perpetual passion. Its taste in costume is entirely absurd, it is ages ahead of the fashion. But it knows any friend it has met once before, it never will look at a bribe, and in charity meetings it stands at the door and collects, though it does not subscribe. Its flavour, when cooked, is more exquisite far than mutton or oysters or eggs. Something it keeps best in an ivory jar, and some in mahogany kegs. You boil it in sawdust, you salt it in glue, you condense it with locusts and tape, still keeping one principal object in view to preserve its symmetrical shape. The butcher would gladly have talked till next day, but he felt that the lesson must end, and he wept in delight in attempting to say he considered the beaver his friend. While the beaver confessed, with affectionate looks more eloquent even than tears, it had learnt in ten minutes far more than all books would have taught it in seventy years. They returned hand in hand, and the bellman, a manned, for a moment, with noble emotion, said, this amply repays all the wearersome days we have spent on the billowy ocean. Such friends, as the beaver and butcher became, have seldom if ever been known. In winter or summer, it was always the same you could never meet either alone. And when quarrels arose, as one frequently finds quarrels will, spite of every endeavour, the song of the job job, recurred to their minds, and cemented their friendship forever. Fit the sixth, the barrister's dream. They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care, they pursued it with forks and hope, they threatened its life with a railway share, they charmed it with smiles and soap. But the barrister, weary of proving in vain that the beaver's lace making was wrong, fell asleep, and in dreams saw the creature quite plain that his fancy had dwelt on so long. He dreamt that he stood in a shadowy court, where the snark, with a glass in its eye dressed in gown, bands and wig, was defending a pig on the charge of deserting its stye. The witnesses proved, without error or flaw, that the stye was deserted when found, and the judge kept explaining the state of the law in a soft undercurrent of sound. The indictment had never been clearly expressed, and it seemed that the snark had begun and had spoken three hours before anyone guessed what the pig was supposed to have done. The jury had each formed a different few, long before the indictment was read, and they all spoke at once, so that none of them knew one word that the others had said. You must know, said the judge, but the snark exclaimed, fudge, that statute is obsolete quite, let me tell you, my friends, the whole question depends on an ancient menorial right. In the manner of treason the pig would appear to have aided but scarcely abetted, while the charge of insolvency fails, it is clear, if you grant the plea never indebted. The fact of desertion I will not dispute, but its guilt, as I trust, is removed, so far as relates to the cost of this suit by the alibi which has been proved. My poor client's fate now depends on your votes. Here the speaker sat down in his place, and directed the judge to refer to his notes and briefly to sum up the case. But the judge said he never had summed up before, so the snark undertook it instead, and summed it so well that it came to far more than the witnesses ever had said. When the verdict was called for, the jury declined, as the word was so puzzling to spell, but they ventured to hope that the snark wouldn't mind undertaking that duty as well. So the snark found the verdict, although, as it owned, it was spent with the toils of the day, when it said the word guilty. The jury all groaned, and some of them fainted away. Then the snark pronounced sentence, the judge being quite too nervous to utter a word. When it rose to its feet, there was silence like night, and the fall of a pin might be heard. Transportation for life, was the sentence it gave, and then to be fined forty pound. The jury all cheered, though the judge said he feared that the phrase was not legally sound. But their wild exultation was suddenly checked when the jailer informed them with tears, such a sentence would have not the slightest effect, as the pig had been dead for some years. The judge left the court, looking deeply disgusted, but the snark, though a little aghast, as the lawyer to whom the defence was entrusted, went bellowing on to the last. Thus the barrister dreamed, while the bellowing seemed to grow every moment more clear till he woke to the knell of a furious bell which the bell-man rang close at his ear. Fit the seventh, the banker's fate. They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care, they pursued it with forks and hope. They threatened its life with a railway share, they charmed it with smiles and soap. And the banker, inspired with a courage, so knew it was matter for general remark, rushed madly ahead and was lost to their view in his zeal to discover the snark. But while he was seeking with thimbles and care, a bandersnatch swiftly drew nigh and grabbed at the banker, who shrieked in despair for he knew it was useless to fly. He offered large discount, he offered a check, drawn to bearer, for seven pence ten. But the bandersnatch merely extended its neck and grabbed at the banker again. Without rest or pause, while those fumious jaws went savagely snapping around, he skipped and he hopped and he flandered and flopped till fainting he fell to the ground. The bandersnatch fled as the others appeared, led on by that fear-stricken yell, and the bellman remarked, It is just as I feared, and solemnly told on his bell. He was black in the face, and they scarcely could trace the least likeness to what he had been. While so great was his fright that his waistcoat turned white, a wonderful thing to be seen. To the horror of all who were present that day he up rose in full evening dress, and with census grimaces endeavored to say what his tongue could no longer express. Down he sank in a chair, ran his hands through his hair, and chanted in mimsiest tones words whose utter inanity proved his insanity while he rattled a couple of bones. Leave him here to his fate, it is getting so late, the bellman exclaimed in a fright. We have lost half the day, any further delay and we shan't catch a snuck before night. Fit the eighth. The vanishing. They sought it with thimbles, they sought it with care, they pursued it with forks and hope. They threatened its life with a rail-washer, they charmed it with smiles and soap. They shuddered to think that the chase might fail, and the beaver, excited at last, went banding along on the tip of its tail for the daylight was nearly past. There is thingam-bob shouting, the bellman said. He is shouting like mad, only hark! He is waving his hands, he is wagging his head, he has certainly found a snuck. They gazed in delight, while the butcher exclaimed he was always a desperate wag. They beheld him, their baker, their hero unnamed, on the top of a neighbouring crag. Erect and sublime for one moment of time. In the next that wild figure they saw, as if stung by a spasm plunge into a chasm while they waited and listened in awe. It's a snuck! was the sound that first came to their ears and seemed almost too good to be true. Then followed a torrent of laughter and cheers. Then the ominous words, it's a boo. Then silence. Some fancy to they heard in the air, a weary and wandering sigh that sounded like jump. But the others declare it was only a breeze that went by. They hunted till darkness came on, but they found not a button or feather or mark by which they could tell that they stood on the ground where the baker had met with the snuck. In the midst of the word he was trying to say, in the midst of his laughter and glee, he had softly and suddenly vanished away. For the snuck was a boo-jum, you see. End of The Hunting of the Snuck Preface to The Hunting of the Snuck from Rime and Reason by Lewis Carroll This LibriVox recording is in the public domain. Recording by Michael Maggs The Hunting of the Snuck and Agony in Eight Fits Preface If, and the thing is wildly possible, the charge of writing nonsense were ever brought against the author of this brief but instructive poem, it would be based, I feel, convinced on the line in page 144, then the bowsprit got mixed with the rudder sometimes. In view of this painful possibility, I will not, as I might, appeal indignantly to my other writings as a proof that I am incapable of such a deed. I will not, as I might, point to the strong moral purpose of this poem itself, to the arismetical principle so cautiously incarcated in it, or to its noble teachings in natural history. I will take the more prosaic course of simply explaining how it happened. The Bellman, who was almost morbidly sensitive about appearances, used to have the bowsprit unshipped once or twice a week to be re-varnished, and it more than once happened when the time came for replacing it that no one on board could remember which end of the ship it belonged to. They knew it was not of the slightest use to appeal to the Bellman about it. He would only refer to his naval code, and read out in pathetic tones admiralty instructions, which none of them had ever been able to understand. So it generally ended in its being fastened on, anyhow, across the rudder. The Helmsman, footnote one. This office was usually undertaken by the Boots, who found in it a refuge from the Baker's constant complaints about the insufficient blacking of his three pens of Boots, used to stand by with tears in his eyes. He knew it was all wrong, but alas, rule forty-two of the code, no one shall speak to the man at the helm, had been completed by the Bellman himself with the words, and the man at the helm shall speak to no one. So remonstrance was impossible, and no steering could be done till the next varnishing day. During these bewildering intervals the ship usually sailed backwards. As this poem is to some extent connected with the lay of the Jabberwock, let me take this opportunity of answering a question that has often been asked me, how to pronounce Slyzy Toves. The I in Slyzy is long as in Rise, and Toves is pronounced so as to rhyme with Groves. Again the first O in Borough Goves is pronounced like the O in Borough. I have heard people try to give it the sound of the O in Worry, such is human perversity. This also seems a fitting occasion to notice the other hard words in that poem. Humpty Dumpty's theory of two meanings packed into one word like a portmanteau seems to be the right explanation for all. For instance, take the two words fuming and furious. Make up your mind that you will say both words, but leave it unsettled which you will say first.  If your thoughts inclined ever so little towards fuming you will say fuming furious. If they turn even by a hair's breadth towards furious you will say furious fuming. But if you have that rarest of gifts a perfectly balanced mind you will say frumius. Supposing that when Pistol uttered the well-known words under which King Bisonian speak or die, Justice Shallow had felt certain it was either William or Richard, but had not been able to settle which so that he could not possibly say either name before the other. Can it be doubted that rather than die he would have gasped out realchium? End of preface to The Hunting of the Snark. Size and Tears From Rime and Reason by Lewis Carroll This liprivox recording is in the public domain. Recording by Michael Max. Size and Tears When on the sandy shore I sit beside the salt sea-wave and fall into a weeping fit because I dare not shave, a little whisper at my ear inquires the reason of my fear. I answer, if that ruffian Jones should recognise me here he'd bellow out my name in tones offensive to the ear. He chuffs me so on being stout, a thing that always puts me out. Ah me, I see him on the cliff, fair well, fair well to hope, if he should look this way and if he's got his telescope. To whatsoever place I flee my odious rival follows me. For every night and everywhere I meet him out at dinner and when I fan some charming fare and vow to die or win her the wretch he's thin and I am stout is sure to come and cut me out. The girls, just like them, all agree to praise Jay Jones, a squire. I ask them what on earth they see about him to admire. They cry he is so sleek and slim it's quite a treat to look at him. They vanish in tobacco smoke those visionary maids. I feel a sharp and sudden poke between the shoulder blades. Why, Brown, my boy, you're growing stout. I told you he would find me out. My growth is not your business, sir. No more it is, my boy, but if it's yours as I infer, why, Brown, I give you joy. A man whose business prospers so is just the sort of man to know. It's hardly safe, though, talking here I best get out of reach. For such a weight as yours, I fear, must shortly sink the beach. Insult me thus because I'm stout. I vow I'll go and call him out. End of Sighs and Tears. Atalanta, in Camden Town, from Rhyman Reason by Lewis Carroll. This Libravox recording is in the public domain. Recording by Michael Maggs. Atalanta, in Camden Town. I, twas here on this spot in that summer of yore, Atalanta did not vote my presence a bore, nor reply to my tenderest talk she had heard all that nonsense before. She'd the brooch I had bought, and the necklace and sash on, and her heart as I thought was alive to my passion. And she'd done up her hair in the style that the Empress had brought into fashion. I had been to the play with my pearl of a peary, but for all I could say she declared she was weary, that the place was so crowded and hot, and she couldn't abide that done really. Then I thought, tis for me that she whines and she whimpers, and it soothed me to see those sensational simpers. And I said, this is grumptious, a phrase I had learned from the Devonshire Shrimpers. And I vowed, twill be said I'm a fortunate fellow when the breakfast is spread, when the topers are mellow, when the foam of the bright cake is white, and the fierce orange blossoms are yellow. Oh, that languishing yawn, oh, those eloquent eyes!  I was stung by a look, I was slain by a tear, by a tempest of size. And I whispered, tis time! Is not love at its deepest? Shall we squander life's prime while thy weightest and weepest? Let us settle it, license or bands, though undoubtedly bands are the cheapest. Ah, my hero said I, let me be thy liander! But I lost her reply, something ending with gander. For the omnibus rattled so loud that no mortal could quite understand her. End of Atalanta in Camdentown. Feet, thorough the lattice she can spy the passers in the street. There's one that stand us at the door and till us at the pin. Now speak and say, my Popinjay, if I shall let him in.  Oh, when he came the parlour in, a woeful man was he. And dinner ye can ye lover again, say well that lover thee? And how what I can ye loved me, sir, that have been, say, long away? And how what I can ye loved me, sir, ye never tell'd me say? Said, Lady dear, and the salt-salt tear came rinnin' dune his cheek. I have sent the tokens of my love this many a many a week. Oh, dinner ye get the rings, lady, the rings are gawd, say fine. I want that I have sent to thee four score, four score and nine. They come to me, said that fair lady. Wow, they were flimsy things, said, that chain o' gawd my doggy to hoard is made o' they self-same rings. And dinner ye get the locks, the locks, the locks o' my aim black hair, Wilk I sent by post, which I sent by box, Wilk I sent by carrier. They come to me, said that fair lady, and I prithee, send name there, said, that cushion say red for my doggy's head it is stuffed with they locks a hair. And dinner ye get the letter, lady, tide we a silken string, Wilk I sent to thee, fray the far country, a message of love to bring. It came to me, fray the far country, we it's silken string an' a, but it wasn't a prepaid, said that high-born maid, so I got them take it away. Oh, ever a lack that ye sent it back, it was written C. Clarkely and well. Now the message it brought an' the boon that it sought, I must even say at me sell. Then up and spake the pop in J. Say wisely cancelled he. Now say it in the proper way, gay dune up on thy knee. The lover he turned both red and pale went dune up on his knee. Oh, lady, here they weigh some tale that must be told to thee. For five lang years and five lang years I courted thee by looks, by nods and winks, by smiles and tears, as I had read in books. For ten lang years, oh weary hours I courted thee by signs, by sending game, by sending flowers, by sending valentines. For five lang years and five lang years I have dwelt in the far country, till that thy mind shall be inclined mere tenderly to me. Now, thirty years again and past I am come for a foreign land, I am come to tell thee my love at last. Oh, lady, gimme thy hand. The lady she turned not pale nor red, but she smiled a pitiful smile. Sick of courting as yours, my man, she said, takes a lang and a weary while.  We that the doggy barked aloud, and up and doony ran, and tugged and strained his chain agor'd all footer bite the man. Oh, hush thee gentle pop in J, oh hush thee doggy dear, there is a word I Fenwood say it needeth, he should hear. A louder scream that lady fair to drown her doggy's bark, ever the lover shouted mere to make that lady hark. Shrill and more shrill the pop in J upraised his angry squall. I trove a doggy's voice that day was louder than them all. The serving men and serving maids sat by the kitchen fire. They heard sicker din the parlour within as made them much admire. Outspake the boy in buttons, I weenie was nothing.   When on that boy the kevel fell to stay the fearsome noise, gay in they cried, what air be tied thou prince of button boys? Sign he has tain a supple cane to swing that dogsy fat, that doggy yowl, that doggy howl'd, the louder I for that. Sign he has tain a mutton-bane, the doggy ceased his noise and followed dune the kitchen stair that prince of button boys. Then sadly spake that lady fair we are frown upon our brow.  Nay use, nay use for size and tears, nay use at all to fret. Sign ye've bided see well for thirty years, ye may bide a wee langer yet. Sadly, sadly he crossed the floor and tear-led at the pin. Sadly went he through the door where sadly he came in. O ginn I had a pop-in-jay to fly abound my head, to tell me what I ought to say I had by this been wed. O ginn I find a nither lady, he said, we size and tears. I what my courton shall not be a nither thirty years. For ginn I find a lady gay exactly to my taste, I'll pop the question, I or nay, in twenty years at maced. Four riddles. These consist of two double acrostics and two shirards. Number one was written at the request of some young friends who had gone to a ball at an Oxford commemoration and also as a specimen of what might be done by making the double acrostic a connected poem instead of what it hitherto been a string of disjointed standards on every conceivable subject and about as interesting to read straight through as a page of a cyclopedia. The first two stanzas describe the two main words and each subsequent stanza one of the crosslights. Number two was written after seeing Miss Ellen Terry perform in the play of Hamlet. In this case the first stanza describes the two main words. Number three was written after seeing Miss Marion Terry perform in Mr Gilbert's play of Pygmalion and Galataea. The three stanzas respectively describe my first, my second, and my whole. One. There was an ancient city stricken down with a strange frenzy and for many a day they paced from mourn to eave the crowded town and danced the night away. I asked the cause. The aged man grew sad. They pointed to a building gray and tall and hoarsely answered, step inside my lad and then you'll see it all.  But something whispered. It will soon be done. Bands cannot always play nor lady's smile. Endure with patience the distasteful fun for just a little while. A change came all my vision. It was night. We clove a pathway through a frantic throng the steeds, wild plunging, filled us with a fright, the chariots whirled along. Within a marble hall a river ran, a living tide, half muslin and half cloth, and here one mourned a broken wreath or fan, yet swallowed down her wroth. And here one offered to a thirsty fair, his words half-drowned amid those thunders-tuneful, some frozen viand. There were many there, a toothache in each spoonful. There comes the happy pause, for human strength will not endure to dance without cessation, and every one must reach the point at lengths of absolute prostration. At such a moment ladies learned to give to partners who would urge them over much a flat and yet decided negative. Photographers love such. There comes a welcome summons, hope revives, and fading eyes grow bright, and pulses quicken, incessant pops the corks and busy knives dispense the tongue and chicken. Flushed with new life, the crowd flows back again and all is tangled talk a mazy motion, much like a waving field of golden grain or a tempestuous ocean. And thus they give the time that nature meant for peaceful sleep a meditative snores to ceaseless din and mindless merriment and waste of shoes and flaws. And one we name him not, that flies the flowers that dreads the dances, and that shuns the salads. They doom to pass in solitude, the hour's writing acrostic ballads. How late it grows! The hour is surely past that should have warned us with its double knock. The twilight wanes. A morning comes at last. Oh, uncle, what's the clock? The uncle gravely nods and wisely winks. It may mean much, but I was one to know. He opes his mouse. Yet out of it besinks no words of wisdom flow. Two. Empress of art, for thee I twine this wreath with all too slender skull. Forgive my muse each halting line, and for the deed accept the will. Oh, day of tears! Whence comes this spectre grim, parting like death's cold river, souls that love? Is not he bound to thee as thou to him, by vows, and whispered here, yet heard above? And still it lives that keen and heavenward flame lives in his eye and trembles in his tone, and these wild words of fury but proclaim a heart that beats for thee, for thee alone. But all is lost, that mighty mind all thrown, like sweet bells jangled piteous sight to see. Doubt that the stars afire, so runs his moan, doubt truth herself, but not my love for thee.  Nay, get thee hence, leave all thy winsome ways and the faint fragrance of thy scattered flowers, in holy silence wait the appointed days and weep away the leaden-footed hours. Three. The air is bright with hues of light, and rich with laughter and with singing. Young hearts beat high in ecstasy, and banners wave and bells are ringing. But silence falls with fading day, and there's an end to mirth and play. Ah, willer-day! Rest your old bones, she wrinkled crones. The kettle sings, the firelight dances. Deep beer quaffed the magic draught that fills the soul with golden fancies. For youth and pleasant will not stay, and ye are withered, worn, and grey. Ah, willer-day! O fair cold face! O form of grace for human passion madly yearning!  Leave us not thus, we fondly pray. We cannot let thee pass away. Ah, willer-day! Four. My first is singular at best. More plural is my second. My third is farther pluralist. So plural plural I protest it scarcely can be reckoned. My first is followed by a bird. My second by believers in magic art. My simple third follows too often. Hopes of third implausible deceivers. My first to get at wisdom tries. A failure melancholy. My second men revered as wise. My third from heights of wisdom flies to depths of frantic folly. My first is aging day by day. My second's age is ended. My third enjoys an age. They say that never seems to fade away those centuries extended. My whole. I need a poet's pen to paint her myriad phases. The monarch and the slave of men, a mountain summit, and a den of dark and deadly mazes. A flashing light. A fleeting shade. Beginning, end, and middle of all that human heart has made or whitt devised. Go seek her aid if you would read my riddle. End of Four Riddles. FAMES PENNY TRUMPET From Rime and Reason by Lewis Carroll. This LibriVox recording is in the public domain. Recording by Michael Maggs. FAMES PENNY TRUMPET Affectionately dedicated to all original researchers who pant for endowment.  Golds sucking leeches, shoals on shoals. Fill all the air with hungry whales. Reward us air, we think, all right. Without your gold mere knowledge fails to sate the swinish appetite. And wear great play-to-paste serene, or newtom paused with wistful eye. Rush to the chase with hoofs unclean, and babel clamour of the sty. Be yours the pay, be theirs the praise. We will not rob them of their due, nor vex the ghosts of other days by naming them along with you. They sought and found undying fame. They toiled not for reward, nor thanks. Their cheeks are hot with honest shame for you, the modern mountain banks, who preach of justice, plead with tears that love and mercy should abound while marking with complacent ears the moaning of some tortured hand. Who, prait of wisdom, nay, forbear lest wisdom turn on you in wrath, trampling with heel that will not spare the vermin that beset her path. Go throng each other's drawing-rooms, ye idols of a petty clique, strut your brief hour in borrowed plumes, and make your penny trumpets squeak. Deck your dull talk with pilfered shreds of learning from a nobler time, and oil each other's little heads with mutual flattery's golden slime. And when the topmost high-cheek-ain and stand in glory's ether clear, and grasp the prize of all your pain, so many hundred pounds a year, then let fame's banner be unfurled, sing peons for a victory one, ye tapers that would light the world and cast a shadow on the sun, who still shall pour his ray sublime one crystal flood from east to west, when ye have burned your little time and feebly flickered into rest. End of fame's penny trumpet. End of Rime and Reason by Lois Carroll.