We're like forever late, but we're here gotta grab the this We're here, and we're alive Set me all up on the tripod what up clear skate Sorry for all the movement Unsatisfying Because this kid That I unsubscribe to because he was so bad like I didn't want to say something negative on his page That's sweet, so I just Unsubscribe to him because I just his execution was just not the best caliber Sorry for all the movement y'all you know every single one his he would say what he was doing and it would always say satisfying Okay, well at least he knows that There's other people that say satisfying but that just brings me to one. Oh, well then I should put satisfying on our Whatever next when we do Why couldn't it be satisfying on whatever it is that No Maybe is it clear can you hear me? Etc. Etc. Hey Sherry in Las Vegas Laura Clara Sharon Sherry Sharon Sondra Mary Christine Lesley So many fan fans. Sorry. I'm so late today. I'm only what six hours tardy for this party. It's been a day And in the midst of it I had some friends stop in and have lunch with me, so That's why I'm super late But I hope you Laura Taylor. I don't have the button You're just too kind Laura. Thank you so much. I have to buy shipping supplies And that is exactly where that is going to go. I don't have any black paint, so I think I might just use black spray paint. I Appreciate that Laura so much.  It looks good Laura Taylor Think you accidentally did that twice, but if not, oh Well, thank you Laura Taylor Goodness We got hot in here all of a sudden Laura turn the heat on So I'm going I didn't review these other colors the other day and so this one is deep plum By Resonate Hope works going well Laura Laura you're getting insane right now Where's my button?  You've done that once before It was not cute, but I accept. Thank you so much Laura That will go towards The shop and then maybe a little bit For walking around money on a Laura Okay, that that last one we're gonna Did you get the casino? Did you rack up? Right Okay, Laura Have you been drinking? I'm gonna accept this as a birthday present and we're gonna go We're gonna use it for my birthday mystery Thank you so much Laura What does that mean It's something to get canceled he's avoiding my question Well, I really appreciate that like more than you know like more that I could put into words And I'm doing my best not to get all emotional and crazy That means so much to us Now that I'm not gonna ugly cry Okay, either should be 500. I got my well-deserved bonus. I love y'all heaps and wanted to share Laura The fact that you thought of us means more than all of the dollars Also, I appreciate all of the dollars it makes It makes it easier to do all the videos for free And to you know live the artist's life without Stressing too bad Yeah, we had four people not show up for our biggest class as I appreciate that so much Laura. Thank you Yes, we need to plan a visit out your way if I can convince Jeff to Get in some snow gear Unless that's a surprise. Are we going to visit Laura Taylor for our birthday?  He definitely deserve All of whatever bonus they gave you Okay, now that I'm done shaking a little bit Hey Kim. Hey, Sandra Looks like crafts.   I'm gonna also do gold with it Be done you Charles looks good looks good cool so I'm over here in the other arty area because Jeff is gearing up to Do a Christopher walk-in portrait? Over at the other Filming area. I just can't get over it Laura Taylor Thank you Hello, darkness my old friend. I don't really have a Direction or idea for this. I just wanted to use the colors I will be we grab the um those three pieces. We just said I have them on top of those videos Well, I appreciate you stopping in and everything you do for us Laura have an awesome dinner and I'll text you when I get off on Life feed are you playing my skintrain? Okay, what are these things? What are these? These are the round boards that we have in our shop The colors like what's there from resonate Resonate yeah resin to the eighth power out of the UK It's been in a lot of groups lately that how dangerous resin can be and Everybody reacts different to different things. It's an allergic reaction that different people have Take your own precautions just because we don't wear a respirator or like a full hazmat suit Doesn't mean that's not appropriate for other people take all the precautions that you feel necessary I don't want anyone to get sick because of something that I Didn't tell you guys or I didn't emphasize so do as I say not as I do and Happy arting Okay, so I'm gonna do a torch and tilt. I think first of all Just a little bit So you see all this drag down here. That's because the white is so heavy It creates these little flutters Fun and drink responsibly. Thank you that one, too and So I'm gonna let it I'm gonna move it around let the white sink and then move it around so that it Gives me like these sunken in ghost areas And any really thick pigment will do that Flutter it is technical term for real for real. I'm just heating it up enough to make it Move a little bit more quickly than the others and I'm noticing that the area where I add the most heat I get less reactions so Just keep that in mind when you're using This kind of paint or if you are trying out any any brands of paint in general really just Be aware of what's going on in your artwork and adjust Especially if you're using something new Like I didn't really do much on this area And it has all the reaction and where I added all the heat it has less of a reaction I know it Bowie He lost he lost something under the couch. I think for the makers of e-science now comes e-dictionary Can we please Create e-dictionary-ness Really like the fluidity of this area right here Like if I could just cut this out and just make it bigger. I probably would thank you van Really looking forward to your visit So I like any color that if I put next to a white it kind of creates that like glowing look where it brightens up Yeah, the cells are stretching well So I'm not gonna heat the area. I want to do awesome things. I'm just gonna heat in front of it To get it to run a little more quickly Guess I could turn it to where you guys could see it It's just a chewy welcome back Clara So when people ask me about Creating pieces that aren't busy or negative space piece. I always have to mention the fact that Typically people want to pick all the colors to use in a piece and really don't consider that every two colors will make Another color and various brightnesses brightnesses. I don't think that's a thing You know what I mean I'll make new colors in different depths of color. I don't know you guys know what I'm saying So just consider that when You want to create something that's elegant and not too crazy Stick to three colors For max depending on the size of the piece and just keep it simple that old adage definitely applies Alen Thank You JJ Agreed vamp three colors and one metallic is always a winner and I do have a Metallic with me that I'm probably gonna use. I just want to break up some things first Sorry y'all. I'm just Trying to decide If I'm good with this amount of color, I almost want to just Tilt the whole thing And leave the negative space up here What do you guys think? Geo class is coming up Kim December 11th and 12th. What means he's been really needy today I Think he knows he's getting his beans situated this week. He didn't leave it. Leave it. Love it. Love it. Leave it I love it. Leave it Hey, Erin Lynn. I'm using just a One of our round canvas boards that I spray painted Black Also, I'm using stone coats art coat tonight. I'll probably be doing The KS resin tomorrow so I dumped out my gold because See all this yellow that was in it that oily part. I don't really want that. I just want The gold that floats on top because I think this oily part I mean obviously that oily is what does all the dispersion So I'm just gonna let that oily bit soak in a little See how solid that is whereas this is almost all the way gone be what temperature you think it is out there Here out there You say 73 Temperature here out there See I put that down and it's not really spreading out All that much. It's just basically where I put it Little pro tip for all of the people that like to use spray paint based metallics Yeah, it's below zero when chill there That's not okay Here it is your time it is B What time is it? It is 834 p.m. In Dallas, Texas. I love adding metallic accent colors Cass trying to be one with the snow.  Thank you, Erin so in the colors that I carry in the shop what would be most similar would be titanium or snow white and I'd have to look for this warmer plum if you used The plum from just resin and just didn't use as much you would get this but Probably wouldn't be as opaque, which would be fine as well for main ways What I haven't put the mirror spray paint in resin We have some I do wonder if it's anything like the chrome from Molotow Which is Amazing on resin I've got some clear Wait, are you talking about the Molotow or the mirror? May I run like? Okay? Think I like it y'all It actually looks really cool on the back of an acrylic round. I'm not a not a juice in there See, how do I get this to turn off? How'd you do it? What do you think? 40 ounce we can see that gold sinking I guess I should show you guys to Some of it does sink through All right, let me see if I can find a coaster What's up y'all so you guys know that we have our geodes With the protective paper on the front and back These are clear see-through amazing We now have back in stock This big bad boy. This is a 32. I would say by I Want to say 17 or 20 like it depends on where It's kind of hard to see that because you can't even This is double the thickness of the small one. This is a fourth. What is it? That's a quarter inch thick quarter inch, that's right and then we have the newest addition are The circle 18. It's more of a circle kind of fun The others are kind of like a jagged as you can see jagged slice Compared to a circular slice We have these in stock And our clear what it what do we call it? I have those now listed under their own category for geode We're just to make it easier for people to find the geode stuff. So all the geodes are have their own thing Mm-hmm They're still in the clear substrate like they're still in the same category. They were before but they're also now in their own And that's at the top of the website. So it's easier to find So this the piece from yesterday It did do all of the things all of it all over and All of this reminds me of scales Clara But yeah, it did all of the things I Messed up and taking I mean I obviously wanted to take the back off you can see it But now I've got all these like I'm gonna have to clear coat the back of it so that it doesn't look so So there's the mouth of my dragon and an eye and then all of it So yeah, I haven't used just any high-density paint I've only used high-density epoxy paste mixed with a stone coat base tint so Experiment as you will I can only tell you what works for me Yeah, I've got it They're talking about spray paint And I did this one earlier yesterday in one of my like just test pieces and tilted it so all of these Things stretched A whole lot more have we decided what we're gonna call this you guys is this a gravity swipe Is it I mean there's already such thing as a felt feather poor Erica's things except that It's so cool because you know you've seen those apps like people post apps where they did a poor and they run it through some app and it makes it look Like how it looks here Whoops So yeah, this looks kind of like a reef now a shag carpet a shag carpet swipe. That's fun Probably don't gravity just because of how it works and this is the little one that we did You're gonna need something clear to pour on so that you can obviously see since this is the top of the painting So you're gonna need something clear to pour on if you're interested We have a bunch of them on our website artists told at that come Yeah, I'm gonna do the mirror thing in just a second Fun are those but we calm down. I know what I know Thank You Clara It took So many attempts you guys have no idea how many Attempts it took but we did it victorious Couldn't have done it without you guys so I'm gonna consider a group win Anyways, now all of you guys know how to do it as well You should name this effect after you Erica something and something I Guess we could call it an east swipe or an e-pore or an ATD for Oh gold paint good call So yeah Without you guys Now it's all amazing together. Oh, I guess I'm not doing that yet. I'm gonna Spray the back of one of these So we can see what it looks like Wisteria for it does look like wisteria my mom's house has all of the wisteria both purple pink And I know they make pink and white. What's that be? Well, I might have that much clear I mean, I haven't put it in Roseanne yet. I want to spray the back of us Dry and recoat Shake hand vigorously for one minute Very steady back and forth apply using thin coats allowing it to dry for one minute between coats Mmm. Whoops. I will just do another coat Put some in this clear resin. I know Australian postage is kind of crazy, but if you reach out to Somebody color obsession ask her to carry them I will send them to her now. I've got some of that In some resin I think I sprayed too much of it, but it looks fun. I'm gonna have to do more thin coats over that Have you named the effect yet B? It was recommended that we name that effect a Shag poor because it looks like a shag rug Yeah, I don't know which way we're gonna go with it, but I'll do another full demo with the name that East wipe not opposed tea swipe Yeah, that's doing some It's doing some PBO type stuff. That's super fun that like subtle crackle through the silver. I mean mirror. I was thinking stalactite too, but I Might confuse some What is up flatland in the house? We still good for Saturday shaggy swipe Not bad. I'm gonna fiddle with that torch. There's some heating subtle Wonder if the reason why it's not coming off of my star stick is that it may Ruin this coaster and I really like it. So let's just move on ATD drift. That's fun What's up, baby cakes? I forget how much I enjoy doing coasters for coaster steak instead of just doing with leftover Can't even though this is just doing with leftover paint Watch out Shealy coming for you with my own kind of blooms Because I can do that with resin It does look Shealy-esque does not Shealy-esque. Is that a thing? I suppose we can make whatever we want a thing, huh? Let's do another one of those. It was fun Dutch poor Shealy poor I think Having not watched the tutorial video from just a reverse engineer standpoint, it seems like The main difference to me is that it's not dedicated to blowing the white over a piece and Shealy's more into stretched cells Like Dutch poor is like you put the paint down This is my interpretation. This is not what is exactly what's up Help you.  So wasn't she trying to like sue people for Supposing how she did it without paying for the class I'm not sure I'm just asking fun looks like a carnation kind of Focused I guess we could stretch these a little bit See Bethany. She gave who a code for oh, I don't know. She's giving out codes I can add gold to it even though I just melted the carnation. I'm not sure if someone could really Claim copyright on a technique. I mean Really, what is original anymore with artwork? I mean you can tweak things, but Then is it original at that point? I guess she just realized she can't fight them. So join them, right? I know it beans. I'm almost done. I know it. Oh, yeah after the alcoholic Bubble thing there were a whole bunch of people that were like, oh Oh You can't share how to do that Sure See, I wonder that to Christina if they had to sign in DA's Well, we enough He's out here. Where'd you be? He's looking for you He's looking it's crazy JJ So I miss Lewis, I think I can create the bloom and resin. I'm just trying to come up with an exact Formula for that in terms of like viscosity Because unlike with acrylics You have to have Like an acrylic pouring you can add all sorts of things to make all sorts of things happen, you know, but with resin it comes down to Usually just a whole bunch of paint With the different kinds of paints people use carnation in and Comes down to what kind of paint people use and How thick the resin in the paint is I'm not sure what those are Sean? That's a good point to Doris. I Hear that Tammy Anderson Came up with Dang it. I spilled all my silver ball a good Comparable formula I Haven't watched the video yet though, so I'm not sure By the way, Tammy is a beautiful person. She does great work enough beans He's on his way Tell him bow here. He's listening.   I think Love that one Running out of room to put my things. Oh, yeah, it's my last coaster But I have some resin left make some more white I'm still in talks with them Resonate to see about carrying products for the states hopefully It'll go well I see he is really small on TV. Then I saw her in Vegas and she's really tall. Oh I never really see myself as that tall, but I will accept that I will pretend I am tall. Okay This one's gonna be kind of muddy and marbly with the plum Because I don't have any alcohol rides over here and my fingers Plum on them. He's just being a little bit attention-seeky tonight Also, I wanted to thank you guys for your patience if you ordered anything from us Lately, I mean just being super busy Licing on the other side of town so she hasn't been able to come out here. So It's been just Jeff and I running the shop running the show Running everything Has been a little bit hectic and crazy, but We're making it work. Let's see if we need to put another coat on this bag I'm just pushing this gold out to areas where I haven't let it all sink in So that I can soak up that oiliness All right I don't know if that's why it works the way it does for me, but it's the way I have decided I mean, it's it's why I've decided it works It's the reason why it works comma. I have decided So feel free to use it Anyway, you wish I'm running out of room I get one more coaster Doing this last coaster Yeah, like It is the other brown coaster Trying to get as much Sorry about that y'all my phone is apparently not on silent Used all that I didn't hear from kelly today But it's still in the works I'm trying to keep it Within everybody's budget and pick a port that's relatively central To everybody and think that much would move Since it's so little of the purple on here Put some of this silver on here That one is a little less Maybe we put gold in it Not as horrible as it started So it turns out I used all of my clear, I think so This mirror guy may have to just wait for another day This wipe is so cool never Tire of it for some reason I read that as never tried it and I was like girl I know you have Don't lie I think it's my favorite part when it like fades out to almost nothing but still has that really Hard line Carnation Uh murder scene dutchy plum wave Mirror part one Mirror part two Mirror that we're going to do Hey Looks like it's working a little bit. It's gonna need a couple more coats They can still see Through it a little bit Right T tiny cells are so cute Um Also, I hope you enjoyed learning all of these things I'll do another full instructional Now that I know what makes it happen I can try to create a way to control it I hope I think pretty sure I just think it's so beautiful and visually interesting and different. I just can't 19 on beans What's the problem bud What's the problem? Why are you talking so much ham blue eye? What's the problem? Regina I think I need to go pour some shag carpet linda. You should have all of the things To do it. He's all koi, right? Pardon all of that stuff we are doing So precious little beefy No way It's laundry day so Everything is everywhere Let's go see what jeff is doing and then I will dismiss class for the evening. Um, this is one of the pieces Yeah I want to see where you were in doodle buggin Absolutely lin I did this at one of the classes And it will be in our next fire sale I'm gonna do all this in gold Like it's just gonna be I'm not gonna sketch anything out. I'm just gonna I think I'm just gonna cut this I just want to see it look like this big I want to make them in different spots each But I'm gonna do it all in gold and make like filigree and then just a bunch of filigree on the outside Just in straight gold and that's it no Lines like I'm not gonna sketch it out first or anything It's gonna look amazing. Did you put this b in here on purpose? Um, that is a l it looks like a b two l's that's artist till death That looks like a b to me Jeft is this awesome thing where he hides letters in his filigree and stuff That's all big. That's just that's artist till death on there. That's not I hide filigree in my lettering And then I'm gonna do the Christopher walking on this one Let's start this tomorrow too When do we have to ship that out? Probably this week. We should have it done probably by friday or saturday JJ and vamp love this idea It's gonna look super cool y'all and Gina All right, you guys i'm gonna let you go Be we do the thing You do the thing I can't because i'm always gonna get hyped All right, we'll say goodbyes um when you guys can look at my uh All my new art stuff well not necessarily new but That is an original that young man right there. He's amazing jason eitherly etherly He's out of austin texas Super awesome, and that's my kiss storm trooper um George Love george Um, so yeah, thank you guys for coming tonight. Um hanging out with her while she experiments and tests out some Some stuff, um, like I said, I'll probably do this tomorrow On the live. I'm not sure it depends on how much I get done of this 24 by 30 I believe that's what that is for a christopher walking portrait So y'all have an awesome night.  We're selling all those new geodes Uh and all sizes And I think we're gonna start carrying some Square cradle boards and then their future guys, so You guys have an awesome night We will see you later. Bye


Welcome to the contents of your mind. Your mind, think of it as kind of a wall where you can place images and ideas. This is the interior. This is not what you get from your senses. This is the interior of your mind, the interior of your consciousness. And you can put whatever you want on your wall. Now what Russell has been dealing with up to this point is a priori knowledge. We're asking the question, he's asking the question about a priori knowledge. And as we talked about last time, we wondered, or he was wondering, he said that a priori knowledge is knowledge justified without experience. And this is a curious thing. Questions come up as to how this actually happens. So one way he's, in this section, he's asking the question of how a priori knowledge is possible. And to do that, he first compares, or he first looks at Kant's view about a priori. Now to kind of dive into Kant, we have to remember, we have to look at a view that he at first rejects. And Kant says that the a priori is not merely analytic. Now analytic means that the judgment, every belief, every sentence, every judgment is a subject and a predicate. And for an analytic judgment, the predicate is contained in the subject. And that's kind of an odd sense, but the idea is that whatever, you also remember we were doing the definitions, whatever you included in the definition of the subject was going to be the predicate of the judgment or is going to be one of the predicates for the judgment. So for example, the bald man is bald. This is an analytic statement. The predicate is bald is contained in the subject. Now Kant says, you know, Kant would probably allow for these analytic statements to be a priori, but it's not limited to that. You know, another kind of judgment, another kind of analytic statement in this sense is a bachelor is an unmarried male. Well, you know, that's kind of obvious because unmarried male just is the definition of bachelor. So Kant's going to say that the a priori is not merely what's analytic, but the question is for Kant, well, what is the analytic? To get into that, we have to look a little bit as to, we have to look a little bit as to what Kant thinks is going on when we're talking about knowledge. Now for Kant, there's the, there are two things involved in knowledge. There's the physical object and that's the thing of itself. Now Kant's familiar with all the skeptical problems that we've encountered up to this point. You know, Kant's several centuries before Russell, but Kant's still familiar with all these skeptical and count and skeptical problems that we encounter with Descartes and talk about down in the senses. And he, like Russell, are going to say that the thing itself, the physical object itself, is not known. This is what Russell, pretty much for the same reasons that Russell discusses when he's talking about the nature of matter. We can know how matter affects us, but the thing in itself, this is not known. That's one part of knowledge. The other part is our nature. And this is how we are affected by these objects through sensation. Now Kant's going to say that the sensations are caused by the object. He doesn't have a problem saying that. The sensations are caused by the object. This is what he calls phenomena. So the phenomena are caused by the object, and they are, in a sense, in our nature. What else is in our nature is the a priori. Is the a priori. So Kant's clear that the a priori is not merely analytic. What Kant says is the a priori is synthetic. Now the analytic is the claim, or an analytic judgment is one where the predicate is contained in the subject. Synthetic judgments are ones where the predicate is not contained in the subject. We're adding on to it. There is a synthesis, a combination of ideas. And the example that Russell gives in the book deals with mathematics. So we have the number five. These are five things. The number five, you might say, contains one, two, three, and four. Okay, that's fine. Let's also look at seven. Seven contains one, two, three, four, five. Okay, but the judgment is not that seven contains five. The judgment in mathematics here is that seven plus five is twelve. So it's when you put the idea of five and seven together that now you have twelve. This is a synthetic judgment. Now Kant tells us that all a priori judgments, not all, but there are at least some a priori judgments that are synthetic. So what kinds of judgments are these? Well, we just saw earlier it's not sensation. Okay, it's not sensation. Sensation is caused by the object. For Kant, the a priori is just limited to how we deal with these phenomena, how we organize these phenomena. They don't have anything to do with the physical object in itself. One of these kinds of judgments is time. Through the phenomena, we have different experiences. And through the a priori, we sequence these phenomena into what we call time. In addition to time, we have space. This runner is not only moving, but he's moving from left to right. Time and space and causation. The events before cause the events that happen later. And then we have comparison, comparing one set of phenomena to another, or what we might call relation. This is how, for Kant, we have synthetic judgments of space, time, causation, comparison, which gives us mathematics. These are all synthetic because we are putting the ideas together in our minds. In our nature. Russell likes a few things of what Kant has to say, but ultimately he's got a rather significant problem with Kant's view. After all, for Russell, the a priori is going to be certain knowledge or indubitable knowledge. This is going to give us things like the principle of inference that we discussed in the last video. This is going to give us claims about mathematics, which are going to be true regardless of the situation. They're supposed to be true indubitably. But a priori knowledge, for Kant, extends to phenomena only. And if so, then it's dependent upon human nature. But human nature is flawed. We've seen this. Human nature dealing with probability gives us different answers. Even nature involving the metaphysics of, you know, some of the things that Russell was talking about. We're dealing with the metaphysics, sorry, we're dealing with like value judgments or ethical theory, will give us different kinds of judgments. But if human, and we want those kinds of judgments to be indubitable, but it's dependent upon human nature, then what's known a priori can change. And if it can change, then what was once true can be false. Or worse yet, what we once believed was true, and we change our beliefs to believe what's false. Well, then if an a priori knowledge can be false, then it's false that it's indubitable or certain. So we put this together for this conclusion of a priori knowledge extends to phenomena only, and it's false that a priori knowledge is certain or indubitable knowledge. There's another problem we're talking about a priori being dependent upon human nature, is that, you know, the judgments of a priori do not apply to the physical objects themselves. When they're, you know, when we're talking about these a priori judgments, you know, it's very clear about this. The sensations are caused by the physical objects, but they are not the physical objects. And the a priori judgments we have, these synthetic judgments we have are for the phenomena only. Well, if they don't apply to the physical objects, then the a priori, again, is not always true. Because we want our a priori judgments to deal not just with our thought. You know, this is where Russell was talking about this section where he says we want the laws of thought to deal not just with our thought, but with the things themselves. Well, if the a priori judgments are not always true, then it's false that a priori knowledge is certain or indubitable once again. Well, we want our a priori judgments to be certain or indubitable. So for Russell, we must reject the idea, we must reject Kant's idea that a priori knowledge extends to phenomena only. Well, where does this leave us? Remember for Russell, we're dealing with a priori knowledge, and a priori knowledge is not of the physical objects themselves. We want our judgments to be true about the physical objects, but we don't experience them with the physical objects. Well, given what we're dealing with here with Kant, the a priori judgments are not just merely mental things. So a priori knowledge, well, Russell is getting at it, whatever it is, is not just merely mental or not just merely physical. He has this odd statement that the a priori knowledge, you know, it's knowledge and it's real, but it doesn't exist. What's that supposed to mean? Well, this is where he leads us to the idea that whatever this a priori knowledge is, it's in the world of the universals. So however Russell's going to count for how a priori knowledge is possible, it's going to be found in this world of the universals.


HPC Dodgers Radio Dodgers at the dark welcome back to conversation with young alumni of historically black colleges and universities We got more or is the Morganite? Loan from anti line brother Katie Winston getting them in the school and tip about to be thrown off the show everybody fully vaccinated So kudos for that. Thank you brothers and sisters for doing your part Let's get into tonight's topic the first one. I want to kick off with is anti More than a hundred eighty million dollars raised over the course of a eight-year capital campaign The majority of that in the first five years Even if you took out the McKinsey Scott gift you still have Well over forty fifty million dollars over the goal and you have what is believed to be the highest Grossing capital campaign by a public HBCU in history Now we say this and this is good news I think it's no shade to anti before we kick to Laurel that as we speak as anti-completes Spellman is in the midst of a two hundred fifty million dollar campaign Which they have already halfway reached the goal And have a couple more years before they they get to their finish line. So you're talking about a Substantial run of philanthropy for HBCUs that started in earnest before we had George Floyd Before we had the pandemic That are being successful without some of those larger historic gifts that you're getting from alumni and from corporations Do you feel That this is obviously it's a great moment for the sector But do you feel it's something that translates over to other institutions or is it one of those conversations that we often have Where this is for the bigger schools the A&T's and more houses the Spellman's the Howard's is this something That's transformational for the whole culture. Laurel is your school. We'll start with you I mean as much as I hate to quote them because I really hate this new tagline I hate it whoever wrote it know this is back, but it's just It's not giving what needs to be gave but anyway, I think that I don't know. I would agree that I think just from what I've seen so far. I think The bulk of donations are going to Larger schools and you can get into the mechanics of why that is bigger alumni base or alumni that actually have money to give better networks things like that, but I Think I mentioned in one of our past episodes like with Lemoine Owen like they're not a big school at all but because of Big donations that went to like I think it was I think they saw the Morehouse Clark gift that happened over the summer and The Chamber of Commerce in Memphis saw them and was like, oh, well, what can we do what? You know, who can we donate to in the same vein? And so they gave 40 million dollars So again, but that depends on the school their network what their community is like Like in some some schools in some states. I don't think that Who's around them is going to be doing that like A mississippi or alabama because they have other things like terrorizing trans kids So I don't know if they're gonna be thinking about that But I I would hope that even if these schools don't get a mckenzie stott et cetera gift Maybe they might get some melinda gates divorce money. Who knows The alimony is giving i'm just saying I think the bezels effect Hey, I mean anything can happen. We've already seen 2020 2021 is delivering in the same vein anything can happen. So I wouldn't say never say never I would just say for the smaller schools. They kind of have a bigger mountain decline with getting those donations that ant doesn't I don't even know if it's a smaller school too. I think like you said Lord based on location So like Lemoine Owen is in Memphis, you know, so there's opportunities, you know Maybe a hair of stowe maybe something to say somebody in st. Louis is going to be like Was worth investing in hair stowe, you know, I mean, so I think it probably I think location Probably plays a major role in maybe more so than even just the size of school Which is like where you are? I just saw johnson c smith get a million dollars from wells fargo. So they're based out of charlotte Uh, so it is it's possible. Um, that you know, even if even if in a good faith gesture Hey, we're gonna donate to the local hbcu. So it appears that it will work well for small schools But and and katia and or as I'll throw this one to you But what if you're a small school that's in a in a heavily concentrated hbcu orbit? So for example in baltimore, we got two in carolina You got many hbcu's most of them or a good a good number of them private And they're getting gifts, but they're not getting 50 million dollars at a clip. So what if what does it say? If someone's looking at an hbcu giving opportunity and the question is okay, should I pick ant or Bennett or should I put pick shawl or you know, uh, nor come on central Then what happens? Let me go first. Yeah Um, so for me, that's where programming comes into play, right? What is your hbcu offering that would suggest you deserve these large gifts If your programming is in line with the the economy of today or the the job need of today Then I could give you some money. Maybe you don't need every hbc Like you say no hbcu was financially solvent You don't need the size of gift that morgan gets but you need something in that we could put towards uh Your own prosperity, right? Prosperity looks like to you. So it just depends on the programming For you know, my school was carbon, right? We were a teacher college um teachers broadly don't make a ton of money in comparison to Uh, let's see other professions. Let's just say other professions, right? Especially the bigger professions in health care tech, etc But they push out a lot of educators So why not donate in a way that helps them push out more educators? You know, so you make an excellent point because to your point. Yes Maybe you don't you don't have the programming that that will give you an engineer Or give you a uh, you know, somebody who will get elected to congress or something like that Maybe you could but but you know other schools have demonstrated otherwise, but capping Fayetteville state so many of these other state institutions in particular Do crazy good in producing the nurses the teachers and police officers the school superintendents the daycare Providers which by the way are transformative professions, especially now So so how do we Ores and I'll throw this to you. How do you make the the case for? You know stop looking over the smaller institutions because right now they're producing the professions We absolutely need we absolutely need them in black communities I think that is two part one that is the bigger schools do cannibalize Most of the philanthropy philanthropy in those states morgan obviously in maryland A&T north carolina Even in texas it's pv far more than it is with with tsu Though tsu just get a lot of money from their law school alumni So they do kind of have a somewhat balance but pv is better leadership so I think that what you what the schools have to do they position themselves in a way to Feed into their local communities Like for instance, one of the biggest and most thriving Chamber of commerce is in the country right now was golden triangle, which is in Which is kind of in that mississippi area And they've been doing a ton With with growing that area and growing the ability for them To bring businesses there a lot of manufacturing And I know they have been hiring a good amount Near some like school like all corn People from from jackson state But I think the other thing about these donations is Even when schools like lamoin owen get those donations, I mean I get the the publicity Like an a&t does or a howard does or a uc schools or something so on So I think we have to also have a nuanced conversation about is it about the money or is it about the clout? Because i'm sure that lamoin owen and their board are more than comfortable with their 40 million dollars And they're kind of local media and being on hbcu digest And that's fine for them because they got the money and I think that When we had these conversations We automatically tie the clout to the money and there are schools that get lots of clout that don't get lots of money They don't get lots of donations Um, but there are schools that have gotten a lot of money donations. They don't get as much publicity Um, so I think that that's another as a community in general We have to decide is it about the money or is it about the clout? It's about the money Then I think that we can make some things shake if it's about the publicity plus the money Then we're always going to be fighting this one another for our 15 seconds of fame That's a good point Tiffany I would throw it to you because you're always talking about the how the schools in the sector can connect To create more opportunities for everybody regardless of size or regardless of mission or geography So is it incumbent upon Smaller or larger institutions to find a way to say hey, you know Howard if i'm Howard university, let's partner with um Wilber force or let's uh, you know, um Texas southern partner with uh Paul quinn Like let's let's get a big and a small together find some, you know Some programmatic synergy and say let's go approach some people to get something done Is that what schools should be looking to do? And if if so who starts that ball rolling because the or is this point every school is out for itself Every school got to provide scholarships and and build endowment for itself So who starts the conversation about how do we put things together to split a pot of money? Cuted dramatic pause All right, this is morning dramatic. I'm not being dramatic. I'm Choosing our word very carefully There is no hvcu That is in a space To function as if they are totally independent Each and every one of our institutions is dependent on the federal government The state government each and every one of our institutions You think we think we're competing against each other. We're not each other's competition Everybody else that's not an hvcu is our competition and For us to come together. It's not a big reaching to a little or a little reaching out to a big It's us coming together With that in mind that it really is us against the world It is it it should be all money in No money out mindset against everybody else because the reality is Well, if we don't adopt that type of mindset We really won't be here. There won't be bigs reaching to littles because there won't be any littles And the bigs will big will probably become out of reach and we're supposed to be the most accessible We won't continue to exist and to be accessible if we don't Realize that brother sister HBCU brother sister president. We actually have to be family And that means for those of us who have certain skill sets We lend those to our brother or our sister You go to who you know Can handle your business with the understanding that Anybody outside of the family is not somebody somebody that you seek first Wow, when you have everybody in your family that can do what you need done I I agree with that but I would say that Every school and more particular every president and every board got an obligation to that institution, right? It would be nice if you saw And they have a lot of synergy more house Clark In spellman They got they got all the synergy in the world that you can expect from a consortium at the same time They all got their own institutional debt They all have their own faculty and staff payrolls So at a certain point, you know But what is work your responsibility? We got to take care of home. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's fine. But what is collective work and responsibility? You do take care of home when you take care of somebody else's problem You do everybody will get countered in the head count everybody will receive their money Just it's a matter of when you'll receive your monies I kind of I see a point though Like it's like taking to the black just think about the black family, right? Just listening to a different podcast the other day Black people are more likely to borrow from the 401k than other uh races and cultures, right? And that's because we're more likely trying to pull somebody out of poverty with us We'll save somebody from losing a home and stuff like that And so if we just got ahead of that, right and stop having to dip into our savings And build together as opposed to building separately. We might see more success across the board, right? Some macro and micro economics in a nutshell if you ask me So that that would then beg the question of do we put more strength behind organizations like Thurger Marshall College fund United Negro College fund because they get those those big gifts and then they disperse them to every institution is that the same keepers at the same time I was about to say I was about to say um this week in particular and Winston knows this because we've been dealing with students all week one student I'm helping her get to the HBCU that she wants to go to If she cannot get into the summer bridge program At the HBCU that she wants to go to I told her then you need to look at another HBCU that has a summer bridge program that is also um accredited by the same accrediting body because you're going to be taking classes You need for those classes to transfer They're more likely to transfer to where you ultimately want to be So that student is going to count at that one HBCU if she decides to stay there and not come and not go where she wants to go Okay, fine, but if she decides to Transfer those credits earned at the at the summer bridge program She would have paved on HBCU And then if she stays, okay, she keeps paying but if she goes She's paying To be a student there too. That's literally how you need to think about How to get students and how to get them where they want to be You're seeing more of that more of those pipelines to say, oh, you know, here's a three plus two Um, you know, here's preferred admission if you go to this HBCU then we'll let you in for graduate school Medical school. So you are you are starting to see that Um, and I hope that paired with this increased attention Um, and this increased philanthropy that it it jump starts that kind of stuff where people coming out of high school High achieving get to realize their potential by saying, you know, if I go to copping I can go to Morgan for that and I can I can put I can put some credentials together and be on my way So I'm hoping that is something that I'm hoping that a jump starts that way but it actually leads into the next thing I want to talk about which is the the biden administration's proposal on Support for for colleges universities right a party infrastructure plan and when you look at the educational part of it Everything that has anything to do with hbc use is evenly split with msi's And so we I wrote about this we talked about it before but I definitely want to get into a In-depth conversation about it now because when you look through the list of msi's you see a whole bunch of pwis That because of geographic, you know shifts and racial shifts in certain states all of a sudden We got more hispanic. So we are msi all of a sudden we got we're predominantly blacks We're msi so We're we're facing A situation where hbc's could be split in a pie with schools that have 20 30 40 000 students Yeah, jerry you got to say r1 flagship Right like university of arizona Damn near all of the cal state institutions I mean So if there's going to be billions of dollars and and the layperson I think looks at that and says Oh, but it's a lot of money. It's billions of dollars But with what conditions on enrollment or research or low-income families all that looks different in every single state So I would ask you are Let's start with the with the front line question Is it better to have a proposal? Which ain't even guaranteed to make it through the you know to congress Is it better to have a proposal that says hbc's split it with msi's or should we be fighting harder for our own separate? appropriation set asides Particularly to take care of hbc's Anybody can jump in on this because I you know, all right, so So as a merlin resident understanding the merlin college landscape That scares me a lot because then that tells me that unbc And uh, the university of baltimore, which is always in the black will get preference over cop and um Yes, and probably boy as well, right? And so then that begs the question. What was the point of the bill if Copping and buoy and um. Yes, and Morgan don't see all of the money that they probably deserve um You know and that's just thinking about it in terms of merlin. I don't know what texas looks like in that case Especially because that that minority serving The remember pwis got more money than that so they can offer more minority-based scholarships already before they get anything They would then be attracting our students either way They already are I I went to university of houston for grad school They are an msi. It's actually one of the biggest msi's in the country Yep university houston and their in their system, which is all here in the city have Almost a hundred thousand students all their institutions count as msi's they're an r1 Fully funded Almost soon to be power five they're gonna join the big 12 probably the next couple years power five soon to be school Over a billion dollar endowment and one of the most one of the richest alumni bases in the country led by temer fratida So when they just got a billion dollar gift two years ago from him and he's chairman of the board So no they don't need to be sharing money. You wait to be sharing money with tsu I mean, it's it's to me. It's ridiculous. But again, it's how we Form and use the title because even the title msi is extremely broad because I think it should be more based on the income of students It should be based on maybe pell grant eligibility those type of things Because there's a lot of affluent hispanic people here in texas who Only check hispanic for the money. They may view themselves as white, but they check hispanic I'm just saying It's very very well known. No, but he's right in texas.   This is what government does. They don't look at details They just want a ten point answer Ask you for a report ask for a report just to not read it anyway and still ask you same question That's what they do but beyond this Them flattening the money makes sense when you see how they try to flatten So it's funny how msi's and hbc's are both as a federally designated terms And you're trying to conflate the two and they're not the same It's the same reason why what ors was saying in hsi. I've had people that are latino Just talking about hbc's and they didn't know like all of the background history But they knew it generally and they were saying yeah, like we've talked to people that are higher ups and government And you know, they're just throwing around hsi And then inserting hbcu as if they're the same when like a hsi The only thing that makes it a hsi is literally population not history and our culture Not whoever the president is not who's an administration. And so they were like, yeah, we really wish that our you know I forgot what school they were at She was saying I wish our school was like how howard is because I can see I can see that howard means something to you when you're when you're here And she's like, I'm not black but I can see that. Okay. It's intentional At hsi. It's like that's just on the paperwork. Y'all just it just happens to be a number of you here to the point when I'm walking around is basically Ohio state right And we're in the border and that's it. It's not UCLA UCLA announced What December of last year that their goal is to be classified as an msi by 2025 That they want which which would suggest that You make a critical point because The hbcu federal designation and all of its funding lines will never change You can never add more schools to that. Right. That's it. They're No more hbcu That's it. The only thing they all all we can do is fall off, but we can add more msi's right, right UCLA can do it. North Carolina says we want to admit more black and brown and low-income students And that's a whole bunch of msi's That's a fascinating conversation in itself if you understand the landscape of america is changing a bit As the white population is steadily decreasing And so then that that begs the question Are you then going to put hbcu's and the black black people as a culture against Hispanics? Just for the sake of designation and finding money. No, they're just going to flatten hbcu's into Predominantly black institutions, but think about it. Think about the schools that are around us and eric. I'm gonna kick it to you next How many how many predominantly white institutions do we have? And eric you and I have gone back and forth about this Where it's like, yo, we like a hbcu in here Towson, I just think of maryland towson university of maryland Black students all up in there at what point do both of those schools become msi That's gonna take a while It only takes it only takes it only takes about 10 to 25 percent of your student body I just want to know why and to and to your point about enrollment because what white population is going down Black and brown population is going up The trends would suggest this ain't that difficult When all you have to do is let them in you don't have to nurture them. You don't have to graduate them You just gotta let them in I don't right It bothers me how like even the standard for msi just kind of follows Like the bear like, you know how we Sometimes, you know joke about, you know White men doing the bear minimum and getting all the praise The way that we talk about msi's is like the same thing.  You're so now you're going to get Increased funding because you have a black student over here. Like that's it nothing else Where's the fun I don't even know how you can even add on to everything Say like it's it's already been said but it's like you're getting extra funding for doing the bear minimum so I had to look at my policy standpoint I'm looking at the parties Or what and you you got one party that decides like, oh, yeah, we you know The democratic party doesn't believe in equity I'm sorry. I the majority of them the majority in the leadership do not believe in equity They have been saying it for so long This is not to say that you shouldn't like us line yourself with a democratic party That's on you but the other thing that there's a party had It comes to these policies is that they still Have a blind eye to the fact that you can do the same thing for everybody across the board But everybody start at the same point With this exact same legislation. So now we're going to talk about like, oh, okay. Yeah Everybody has the same opportunities. No No, because you you wouldn't get extra money in the schools with billion dollar endowments because they let in 25 black people for every 100 people Is that what we're doing? Like I just I don't get it I mean, oh why but then again people will argue like, oh, we can't Don't listen to their logic on this. That's critical race theory. That's a whole other conversation I want to ask you this question. I want you to hold on. Hold on because I was going to hit That equity, but I also want to say that it's going to take. Yeah, you might admit all of these students But what happens when you can't retain them? Right?    Yeah to that point There will be no penalty because they will always have a well that gets replenished Just have a conversation with an upper level administrator at A pwi at home who said I recruit in detroit I get students here and I can't keep them here After two years, they drop out. Yep. Are you baskin name? Call the names out Oh, look at that Any other times I'm only not gonna do that because I'm gonna help I'm gonna face it. All right, and I told them what to do anyways, but like so so that's what I mean when I say It's going to affect their stat. Eventually I don't know You're not gonna get anybody doesn't know because when you graduate when you when you have a 90% graduate graduation rate for your white student 90% graduation rate for your Asian students If you have five or 10 of black So say you say you're say like towson, right? You're 20 black 80 non-black if you graduate that 80 and maybe five or 10 half of the black Let me tell y'all what y'all missing. Let me tell y'all what y'all missing and Winston know where I'm going with this We work with students who are less refined sure who are of these streets have rules and manners And so when you put them in an abundantly white Closed environment you have a lot of things That are foreign to them that are barriers and things do happen, but that doesn't Let me finish you have to look at the whole picture of what it affects. Yeah They're great the overall graduation rate that everybody always sees that's going to be unaffected But that graduation rate for black students will be low that that retention rate for black students Never publish it But what Winston and I do is tell them where to look and explain it to them That's what you have to do.  Okay It doesn't look but we're not privileging that It doesn't matter though because the the bar is the floor so like They can celebrate when it literally they can celebrate when we got 10% how much money was in like, wow, that's not bad Hey, you know, what's so crazy about that? They know what's so crazy about that. Hold on. You know what's so crazy about that 10% It's because they'll look at half the hbcu's and say that's y'all graduation rate in general So we're doing just as well with the same students We're doing just as well and that that is so skewed that is unbelievable because all the numbers lie though Right, but see but you don't when that dropout rate or that attrition rate is is factored is never X percent of these students just ran out of money Or X percent of these students went home because you know mama said I need some help around here Or X percent of students went and joined the military, you know, I mean, you know, so you Or that 10% couldn't get into your school anyway You gave them an exemption They flunk out and then you say well, we tried, you know, and we'll keep on trying because guess what these black students going to keep on coming Right, they're gonna keep on coming And then In the other part that we we kind of this maybe we talk about maybe we don't is that a lot a lot of the buzz now Was why we black students want to go to hbcu's they can't afford to right And that's in the conversation. That's that's been something they say Why are we pricing our own students out? But some of that is just it's just a sign of the times Electric costs what it costs No, it's also the choice that you made You're looking at the same five schools that we talked about before A lot of black people don't know nothing about hbcu's Like But let's that that feeds into the next thing I want to talk about in Winston you can kick this off So, you know in our chat you were talking about the disruption that Decision day causes. So this is what may first y'all gonna have to school me on this because I again as I told y'all I don't know what decision day is Because when I was coming up it was you you went to school and the church announced it and it may get in the pg gazette You might have made the deadline for the pg gazette so what I'm saying is What what is what is decision day we see the photo shoots and all that but you've looked at it from A logistic standpoint about students Getting boxed in on on a decision that may or may not fit talk a little bit more about it. So yeah So, you know this this date that they put I think like tips that I think was 2015 Michelle Obama they put this initiative to celebrate, you know regular students quote on quote like they do athletes And so they put this whole initiative behind, you know May 1st is when you announce your decision on where you're going to college and you know Everybody gets to celebrate you and give you your flowers and all of that good stuff But the the unfortunate part of that conversation is that a lot of young people have not Been privy to the process of getting to college right like sometimes a lot of them It doesn't even become a real thing until senior year whereas some other communities It is a conversation and journey that begins in eighth grade You know they start taking act and sat prep in eighth grade and they're they've they already got their top three schools by senior year They're applied all those three and then it's easy to make a decision about three where our children our young people are more like Okay, senior year. We got to get on the ball. You got to get your grades up You need to you know prepare to take this test and you got to apply to schools And so then we're applying to schools in the middle of senior year and then all of a sudden, you know life happens Things happen. We know, you know going through that process Especially being a minority in this country and then all of a sudden we're at close to this may first thing It's like oh my god I gotta make a decision It's like wait a minute how we really thought about but we're going through the process the way we need to But what makes sense for you? What school you can afford what you want to study what environment you need all these things But instead i'm caught up in I gotta get my balloons tight. I gotta have my colors I gotta get it wrong. I gotta do all these other things for theatrics And it's like well, wait a minute though. Have we really said have we really figured out what makes sense for you? I don't think we've taken the time to figure out what makes sense for you and now we're in this bar I gotta pay a deposit and the reality is The reality is This more about the schools being able to say we got this enrollment coming in this fall Then it is about having making decision made first not being the best thing It's it don't it's only a best thing for those institutions. You can say we got we got 5 000 coming this year We got 8 000 that are coming this year as opposed to saying we're getting the quality students We want these young people are matriculating to the best institutions for them It becomes more of a Celebratory thing for the institutions and they plug the kids and the young people in on it And I work then we get in messages of people You know saying to pay in deposits for multiple schools because they maybe you pay for Howard and all of a sudden You find out you don't have Howard money and now you got a pivot and you go into eastern michigan Are you going to you know class on or wherever it is because you could it in you didn't end up where you thought You were going to end up or Howard Howard didn't write you back All right I would invite you back to September Since September when you was already enrolled and said Howard did you call you back They ain't get it. Sorry I only got 29 000 applications. They can't go through all them. No, it's real Tiffany are you going to defend Howard and not calling people back? No because you know they don't call people back Should I work it out? You said I'm not going to let it You're muted. The phone went off mute There's a lot of supposition here I actually like what Howard is doing right now. You can't manipulate the admissions processes anymore Nobody can just call and try to get their friends in anymore And that's what I like Now they was trying to they was all in our facebook groups. I must have anybody know anybody in admissions No It's the favorite time of year It's that time of year No shout out to Howard first of all we are coming on that radio station second of all I forgot about that It's a great It's a great No, but it is but it is to say that That's a problem That's a problem for a lot of high High profile institutions I've seen it out of the shoot I've seen it in Morgan Where you got so many paper applications that have come in they put them in a drawer somewhere and forgot about them And kids Some of them Some of them When they go to these school visits and the children apply That part is true However, comma Comic book college app On a computer The common app On a computer You go to a paper app It's harder and that's exactly what I tell these kids You got to work harder if you do a paper app Number one you got to mail it Do you even know how to address this in envelope Oh no That ain't working now Like Do you want to work harder It definitely does Because back to the decision day thing I'm a high schooler Is it a disruption But you guys are right in the sense that One thing we're missing is that schools like ANC Like FAM Like Morgan Like Howard The AUC schools are all getting much harder to get into Tiffany and I had this conversation a couple of months ago And I wrote about this with Dodges like two years ago About how average GPA And again GPAs in high school nowadays are being inflated big time Because these kids are going to dual enroll You know as freshmen Which is crazy My little brother Your enrollment is not the problem It's in honors Because Because these kids on the way to GPA just as low as that All of ours were But it depends It's not Mine is low I'm just saying These kids That's what I'm talking about The kids with this GPA is over four Which is insane But I think that also one thing you're saying Like again with the number of applications coming in The quality of students coming in And the space like Morgan has mentioned They don't have you know They are rejecting more students than they ever probably will Howard will Spelman has mentioned this ANT has mentioned this FAM has meant In the last three or four years All those higher profile schools have mentioned That we are going to have to turn More students away than normal Our average GPA Incoming freshmen is going up But it's also improving retention And it's unfortunate because the schools That I went to Are not going to be like the type of student That was there when I was there Especially not for FAM Because these kids at FAM now are more suburban Orlando and Tampa kids Ain't no Carol City folks coming into FAM You're like they used to Is that a bad thing? It's a bad thing for the culture I would say that FAM ANC All those schools are less Than they are now So at what point do we say Let's kick the culture to the side And do what's good for the business As Barmani Jones would say There's not much of the element At these schools anymore People listen to the podcast They ain't at Morgan no more The element's not there no more Like you said I don't think I just feel like Just because someone from the suburbs Ain't that they can't contribute to the culture Also Ain't nobody in PG about that action Because you are a homopart I'm not talking about that I'm talking about Whether they're from the suburbs or the streets They're still going to be sitting there Like them kids at ANT was a few years ago Talking about make and cat ghetto again When it's like You're complaining that there's no community on campus Yet you don't talk to the person Living next door to you You on the phone Or you hit a swap Which is student run and supported And the events they put on Is from what students submit And they throw events And you either don't come Or you're there on your phone I don't want to blame Gen Z But it's Gen Z It may be COVID But do outside, touch some grass So while you're touching grass Turn to your neighbor Say neighbor What is your name? No, it's a real thing though 2.2 GPA students From Dunbar High School In East Baltimore Is not the same as the 2.2 student From Randall's town So all I'm saying is that the 2.2 students From Dunbar Jacksonville Ain't going no more That's the kind of student And I'm not saying that it means anything In the larger scheme, but just Those urban centers that used to feed Defam and aren't feeding them anymore Morgan's getting more and more students now From Montgomery County That's their largest growing demographic You know what, you might be onto something Just because of how Geographic shifts take place Because I can tell you Forestville, you know, some of the Lower income areas Of Prince George's County There was a lot of us that up and went to Morgan When I was there To your point, now they're coming for more Affluent places, so is it that Morgan is not letting them in Or more families over the last 20 years Have had Career and income mobility And have moved up to better places So they're not as many, the pool is more shallow In C Pleasant and places like that The other element Is that Over the last, what, seven years Community colleges become free So a lot of those students that we're talking about Are going to community colleges first And then they're making their way to The bigger schools before your institutions If they make it there Which is fine Because they're not in debt Right, because it was free Not yet, Eric Not yet They're not in debt They don't count against the schools Um What is it, whatever it is Yeah, and retention rates So that's fine Um I just Because the culture was going to shift at some point It was going to shift at some point And I don't know if it's, I think it's for the better Right, if we want, if we're trying to Normalize all types of blackness Which is a lot of our conversation These days And we want those students at our schools Because at first they didn't feel black enough And they were running to I'm sorry the PWIs And part of that, to our previous conversation Eric, we coming to you, can you hear us? Yep You can't hear you though Having a bad day But it goes to the conversation We just had, because how If you think about Coppin, for example Coppin and Morgan had, we had a pretty good Visible demographic of students from Philly For example So how many of those students that were coming from Philly 20 years ago Are now being heavily recruited by Temple, Drexel St. Joe's Shout out to the Ox Right, so places that They wouldn't have recruited students Or locally wouldn't have recruited Students from certain places of the city They're now coming after them hard, we got money for you Don't go to Morgan coming down the street I got money for you That's another factor, and I think that HBCs have to do It's not to say that they aren't paying attention to that But I wonder what the strategy is To counter that No, they aren't paying attention to that You think so? Oh yes Can you hear me now? Yeah, we can hear you bro Alright, so Everything is kind of simple that we were talking about The online Cloud has created a cast within HBCUs So Now you have Like Those who Grow up in more suburban environments They are going to look at the HBCUs That they have The larger media presence So essentially, the city Is now leading into Which schools are seeing and publicizing Most often Which means the people that are on The internet paying attention to that Who a lot of times who want to be part of the Culture, which is an overused term As is, are now like Oh, I'm trying to go to that school So now the fam news, the morgans The southerns, etc Those Grade of HBCUs as opposed to The Winston-Salem states The other ones that are Maybe the smaller lesser known schools Those students aren't necessarily looking for those So now you're seeing like a cast Being shifted Of which schools are known And which schools are not known Even within HBCUs and who is Looking for those schools One is definitely leading into the other Right, but isn't that an extension Of what we used to talk about And in a lot of ways still do About athletics There were a lot of people, black folks That would not have applied to Georgetown If Allen Iverson wasn't there There are other factors to me And maybe I'm old and wrong But it seemed like that's an extension of it Whoever gets the most marketability Is the one that's going to get the most eyeballs And therefore the most applications And therefore the most attention Right, but now the marketability Is not even necessarily housed Within the school decision date Is a marketing tool Right It's to the point now Like if a student gets accepted to a school If they get a message telling them to mail It's going to be something they may be holding up The day of the decision date Absolutely, they got the sign ready for you But you know what though And it's free You know what though, it's crazy That we're criticizing that right But then we praise presidents for being on tiktok But isn't that the same thing Isn't that the same thing In terms of building marketability Get my president away from all these private like planes And all that Look off on the free-throw line bro I don't want to Because we talk about Because then at the same time we talk about We want our schools to get exposure And that's another way for our schools to get exposure No no no No No No no Yes, it's about marketability But when you only think about marketability The closer that we get To May 1st as opposed to Every day And HBCU is being Talked about is being in the school Every day That's marketability You being on somebody's mind In their face every day That's what these PWIs are doing That's what we're not doing So I think it's more I don't think they are They are I think the power 25 No no No In Michigan In Atlanta In Detroit and Atlanta and Philadelphia Every day There is A collective of PWIs In student spaces Working alongside their guidance counselors They employ their own alumni To do that thing They employ their own college advisors To do that thing And that's where we feel A friend of some do A&T does that It depends on the size of your alumni base No No It's not part of the larger National college attainment network It's not part of any state agency That's what's inequitable I get it, you're right That's where we mess up That's where we don't compete I will say In some alumni bases where they take it upon themselves And say we don't need all that We'll go get them We'll walk you You wouldn't believe Morgan got a pipeline out of Antigua You wouldn't believe On an island I believe See what I'm saying It depends The alumni will take it upon themselves And say we will ensure That this pipeline is going to last But to Tiffany's point And she's correct That is not more powerful Than state sponsors Constant pressure To go get these Posted up in Michigan Posted up in the top high schools in the city My friend said he didn't even know he applied to U of M He was talking to the guy He said be doing speed up They sent a letter to say You got a full tuition scholarship to come to U of M He said thank God I'm going to make sure you get that application Because otherwise you would have been at U of M Real fact Let's go into our last conversation And this is something that I think Continues to For lack of a better term, plague HBCUs And it keeps happening Savannah State or the University System of Georgia Announced that interim president That's been in leadership for a couple of years Since the retirement of Cheryl Dozier Is now going to be the permanent president Of HBCU in Georgia Public HBCU Has had interim go to full time Or there's not been a search For the president The system says this person is now your president Regardless of the credentials Regardless of where you came from Regardless of what the school says Here's your president Same in North Carolina Same in Louisiana So at a certain point It's like their public Systems and public higher education Networks are just treating HBCUs Like high schools You don't even get to choose your president anymore And at some point When do alumni When do faculty start pressing the issue They did it a little bit at Fayetteville State They did it a little bit For like two weeks When they knew two months ahead That it was going to happen And they didn't start making noise Until the day it happened At what point does this become a priority At what point do alumni say This may even become a political issue We won't vote for you for governor We won't vote for you for legislation If you are part of a system That's just going to give anybody to us To be our president This is Georgia today But it happens all over the place Is there a connection between HBCUs that are Deriving Who gets to choose who leads Who does a search in HBCUs That are barely surviving Who have to be told who will be their leader So is it more often that HBCUs that are public They do get a search Or is it just across the board No, this is who's going to be your president It depends to me It seems like it depends on The priorities of a governor Or the priorities of a system chancellor For example, here in Maryland Three, they only got four public HBCUs And Morgan ain't in the system Three of them are All of those schools changed presidents within a five-year span Every last one of them In Georgia This is happening at a rate about every three years And it all depends on What the system wants to do It could be We want to build up and merge this institution So if we make leadership unstable at the HBCU That will expedite our ability to build up This predominantly white institution Because you can't get any traction Under a leadership vision You can't get any strategy going Because we just keep shifting presidents in and out You follow what I'm saying So it could be that a school is thriving Question Why were those public HBCUs In Georgia Becoming a system again Because it feels like They would have been more powerful Together in moments like this If they had their own Border regions for their system It feels like that But I will tell you why The public in general was against it Because they wanted their own brand I don't want to be the University of Georgia At Fort Valley They own what they are They get money from them But it's the same thing in Carolina It's the same thing in Carolina But the deeper policy consideration Was it wouldn't be a bad idea If there was something different from The governor gets to appoint everybody on the board So what good is it to have an HBCU system Or an HBCU board And the governor is still basically Sitting in every seat See what I'm saying? So no, you can't tolerate that either So the point of the matter is We keep talking about all these things HBCUs are doing well We keep talking about these things they need to do And this is undercurrent of But we don't even get to address Our own leadership vision And I'm going to tell you why I'm really scared of this The best HBCU right now Right now is A&T That's on a pan The most thriving institution We have right now is A&T I don't argue Spellman but keep going Spellman This is sheer size and sheer programming Public HBCU Public HBCU Public HBCU The best public That's what they would say The most thriving is to start with A&T Harold Martin probably got maybe Maybe three more years Maybe Who's going to be the next president of North Carolina A&T This is a school that has grown Leaps and bounds with enrollment Every single year to the point that they're on track right now In the next five years to probably be at 15-20 thousand students Mm-hmm, but if you set that back when he retires when he says I'm done the next president will be a hand-picked. Oh He's already being groomed ask your brethren Are you sure because you would think that but but who has the ultimate say the North Carolina system President why because they just changed the rule that no matter what your search does No matter who your search identifies as a as candidates for a job He can put somebody in of course. He can put somebody in as a finalist And if the if the president of the system put somebody in who you think the board is gonna select This just happened at Fayetteville State University This just happened So and everybody and guess what here this was and that wasn't even the pilot that wasn't the pilot We saw that at Elizabeth City We saw it now. We see the Fayetteville. So they're building towards it. We've seen it at all corn How many times has has all corn States president come from Mississippi Valley? Well, Jackson States president come from Mississippi Valley.  How many times do we have to see this? Before people say this is not this is not fair and you know who is particularly not fair to it's not fair to Daryl Allison It's not fair to Kerry Dixon in North Carolina because they could be exceptional leaders They could be very good leaders and good at what they do, but they're coming in under a bad system You know, I feel like I remember us talking about how It would seem like HBCU's Recycled the same executives And is this just not the same similar type of thing in that you're not choosing anybody new You're just recycling so if a state system who has the authority to do the thing you're saying Well, this is who it's gonna be then this is who is going to be right? Same thing on the other hand with maybe privates or other publics who are taking somebody else Who's already worked and not considering trying somebody who's actually new I just radio sponsored by extra sugar for you go I mean, I'm just saying You see you use you see the point cut the check right So what I'm saying is like that's a that's a real consideration And I would hate to see so much work put in by Harold Martin who by the way came up out of the system as well Who came out of the system office went to Winston and went from Winston to auntie did he See what I'm saying, but what did you do? He was a transformational chancellor? He's a transformational chancellor, so you can have a dynamic leader He'll probably go down as auntie's best chancellor of all time, but you can have somebody who? Who Laura? I'm done being shaded for tonight. I just disagree but I just Okay Wouldn't want to limit it by just saying that it stops at HLM I'm just saying when the window is you can love him or hate him because guess what y'all know how I feel about David Wilson our number one fundraiser our Number one program developer our number one at building builder is he Because he's in the chair Might as well have curious George as president at this point. He's in the chair He's in the chair But what I'm saying is what I'm saying History will reflect just follow me history will reflect that's Morgan greatest president I'm following. I just have one question. Who is who is his man in the yellow hat? There is a man in the yellow hat unfortunately There is a man in the yellow hat No, what I'm saying is history will history will say that no matter what I feel no matter what I say it is true David might be our best president of all time now. It's close Because you got it you got to get up early in the morning to be Earl Richardson But what I'm saying is it's close and it shouldn't be but it is like Earl, but Earl Earl was more Beloved by the the city in the community Earl was smooth, you know and Earl's Earl had his family out front You know David acts like you don't have one so I mean Earl Earl took took campus photos with his family with his son and his wife and Earl's from Maryland, so I feel like I think that was a bit that's be the biggest difference is that Earl was actually from The the area, but I think you make a good point You could argue Samuel to where proctor though for a fancy just because of his impact on the world Could be now now. He's that he wasn't a better president of the school. That's by far Martin, but in terms of his impact Proctor will go to Proctor will proctor will's name will continue to live on through the great Who remain nameless when you get to when you get to pick you rise and fall on the error or the success of your decisions Look at more house. They messed up getting John Wilson. They more than redeem themselves getting David Thomas See I'm saying but they got to choose Whatever the politics were for whatever the reason where they got to choose They got to decide we're gonna go up get a more house man, and then they got to decide We're not gonna do that anymore. They got to choose. Nobody came in and just say boom. This is who you're gonna have You know I mean so and I think that that's important because if a campus has a say Then you're more inclined to have the campus behind you working on your behalf to support somebody Not just somebody you just threw in there and they just we don't even know this fool And I'm not saying it has to be somebody who's from the institution It just has somebody that the campus has put their hands on to say you know what he or she feels like or it looks like or it Sounds like you could be a fit here for my school. Well, when you just walk through the door like what is that? I don't know you black folk don't operate like that The first thing we asked is who we want to go somewhere who all in there Who who are you with I don't know you So why are we not why are we not taking that position with president because public funding ain't furry Right, that's the that's the truth. That's the unfortunate conversation that we're really having so like If our students were able to afford to be self-sufficient Even if that mean we won't want to have an extreme dip off when it came to our student population If we decided to all make all HPC you probably we might actually do that But as long as our institutions are Reliant, and I mean extremely reliant on the public systems that they are attached to How do the question also becomes how do we that our supporters and graduates and stakeholders of public HPC use find a way to let the governor know like hey We live here. We went to this school. We want input on who our students are being made because We will vote you out like now and that like that has to be up a conversation like you have to move it as Like to a degree like a local political action committee We want autonomy and choice as it pertains to who is going to run the schools that we have we have a Connection to other what will make sure that you no longer have a job We can't do that on our local level. So how do we do that on a statewide level? How you do on a statewide level is something we got we got to pay more attention to it because as more and more These chancellors and presidents leave and they're good, you know, we talked about it with Hugh Guiney We talked about it with Harold Martin is gonna be more of them more of them are gonna say my time is up And now it's gonna be a system that you know, these states have a funny way of copying each other If they do it in Carolina, they do it in Mississippi. They do it in Louisiana now You'll see it in Florida got the same rules in place You don't have a have a search then you'll see it in Alabama then you'll see it in Maryland You see it in VA. So I mean at some point you got to get to the root of the problem Thank you everybody. We appreciate this a vibrant discussion. We got to this is our first episode our first episode We got to without saying anything about Morris Brown College. I want to thank all of you No, we didn't say anything disparaging Hang on. Thank you for tuning in the Dodgers of the dark or series one XM 142 HBC radio the pride of our University Stay tuned to be on IG for Dodgers of the dark overtime. Peace