Okay, I'm going to jump us ahead to mitigating risk, but let's talk about patch lays and see for a moment So Pat patch lays is a great way to measure security metrics whether or not you're patching quickly whether or not we're patching quickly Inside VMT. They're usually about a week latency between the reporting of vulnerability And then getting a patch out the door the question for most of you guys if you're employers as you want to know How quickly you're patching vulnerabilities how quickly you're isolating finding out there there and then fixing them That's a really good metric for knowing whether or not your security and operations and development teams are you know in synergy on how to approach security problems So mitigating risk the real goals for mitigating risk are awareness of the risk Reducing exposure diversifying the risk and investing your resources intelligently in solving this And ultimately be prepared because you know no matter what you do you're still gonna end up one day facing a real problem awareness These are the things that I'm mentioning for awareness as potential solutions auditing obviously works. We know this works We know that several of the contributing companies are doing their own interlawdates and some of them are doing their own extra law It's more of that is gonna be good for us Open-stack vulnerability database is one of those things I want to do this release where I can take the OSSA's the CVE's the CVE's related to Python dependency sets and build a First a database schema and then an API metric that will allow people to come in and do things like query based on a Configuration of options to get the statistics they need and consume them in a uniform manner This is all about enabling our community to share resources in discovering their own risk factors So better visualizations of Keystone and trust and horizon something else I'd love to get to this release I talked to a couple of guys at Verizon about doing this The thing is is if you look at the quantum visualizations that we have they're kind of great because they show how the network models exist to the users When we start generating trust bearing certificates in Keystone the problem is is people need to know they're there They need to know that they haven't expired that they've handed one out to someone else Going out of our way to make sure that there's a mechanism for the users to know what they've given away in terms of trust is important Better supply chain security things like PGP signing on Pi Pi Ensuring that our github stuff is signed ensuring that our dependencies Pi Pi and github are signed And so ensuring that packaging maintainers at Debbie and Ubuntu and red hat are all talking to each other and doing the same Or similar things and ensuring that what they put up there stays being what they put up there And of course open stack security group Participation several of the members of that team are in the audience and they gave a talk earlier today. That was undoubtedly awesome We need more people in that team The reality is is there's a lot of work to be done and not a lot of people doing it The OSSG exists that the community can get together and solve these problems and we need more participation Hopefully that will help with awareness Reducing exposure. These are some of the things that people do for reducing exposure I'm not going to claim that this is the right answer for any of you The reality is is you can do network isolation. That's something that's big We weren't we at cloud scaling don't believe in network isolation at layer two We believe in network isolation at layer three other folks. They need layer two. They need VPN tunnel and points as a service So that's kind of you figure it out on your own in terms of reducing exposure Meta clouds are something that also are big this year apparently open stack on open stack being able to deploy different security zone clusters air gapping you see for things like itar violation stuff Trusted computing integration, which is Eric Winnich's talk shortly after this. I think it's the last one of the day actually Better CI gate checking for common vulnerabilities. We don't currently do much of that We do some we have some stack analysis tools in the CI process But we can do it better and that would be one of those things that we'll try and work on this coming Havana cycle Diversifying risk is what open stack does really well. This is one of those selling points You can bring home and say hey cloud computing is designed for diverse time to diversifying risk We've all heard about the puppies and the cows and we start treating things like cows You don't care that much about them So what you're really doing there is you're saying I'm accepting the risk But I'm pushing it across many things and it becomes less overall risk So the open standards the Federation the regions the hybrid cloud models These are all designed to solve potential risk factors including security risk factors and The great thing about open-stacks diversity is that it can be leveraged for that in particular things like doing hybrid hypervisor models things of that nature All key selling points So in terms of being prepared it's this is the things are going to go bad And the question is not asked why they go bad. It's how do you respond when they do go bad and These are pretty straightforward Incident detection I found this image online because I thought it's pretty obvious That there's something going on with one of those houses You can usually find an anomaly fairly easily when you have a very homogenous data set Clouds have homogenous data sets should be easy to spot the one house That's you know a little crazier than the others and go investigate that So the first part of this is detection right you want to know when something breaks We know about the risks we accept the risks and when the risks occur That means that eventually we're gonna have to pay the piper and we plan in advance we have procedures you prepare you have resources available So these are some of the things that we can do to increase intrusion detection capabilities throughout open-stack, which is security API's We could leverage kilometer for that as an event logger We could maybe mark measure Marconi as an option for event logging These are things that we need to look into in these releases and make available precursor indications Fairly easy, and I'll get into that in a moment external reporting It's kind of important. We're not reaching out enough to each other. We're not saying hey, we had an incident Here's what happened. Here's what went down. We need more of those Operations catastrophe stories and security catastrophe stories. We had a few of them in the operations manual this year I hope you read a few of them. We need more relates to security stuff and There's security services in SAAS there's a lot of companies that show up here now like cloud passage to have solutions that they can spin up inside of a SAS environment the benefit here with cloud is you can do things like set set up a Baseline image that does scanning and make it available to your users that they can go Audit as a service audit as a service audit as a service and get some baseline metric for whether or not They need to do more work before they go into an actual Manual audit test So back to anomaly detection the great thing about the modest environments is it's easy to see when something goes horribly wrong This is from an old cluster I used to work on and you can see there's a couple of things horribly wrong here just by looking at a histogram of Volumes you can see one we probably shouldn't be looking at var lib nova instances in a histogram because it grows wildly and throws off Things and you can see that in the first couple You can also see that there's no var log on four of the machines How did that happen go investigate we discover in that case that four of the machines aren't actually four of the same machines that they're supposed to be in that rack So they're missing discs. So when they were auto provisioned, they end up missing discs Other cool stuff in here. You can see when var log grows Exponentially there's not one in here But we've seen it before where the var log histogram will start going baddy alone machines You know that somebody's either hammering an API on there where you're getting a lot of tracebacks in Python logging from Nova or somebody left verbosity on One of the other cool ones in here. I believe is there's a slash So one of the forward slashes is frequently large on one of these or larger than it should be and it's Yeah slash bar over here is enormous on this guy That was basically the result of an operations guy going into machine and leaving a large number of files behind on a machine that he shouldn't have So anomaly detections are very cool. We can do all of this with all the metrics we have available in salameter We can do this with Libvert metrics. We can do it with Nova metrics.  What data do you pull? Where do you put it? And that's where we get into chain of custody stuff this stuff's important people are deploying open stack today Aren't thinking about chain of custody they're not thinking about the real capabilities in terms of chain of custody We can do things like snapshot an image pull that image off store it keep it around we can do things like Move a VM into an isolated zone But we can't do things like move an instance from one tenant to another So how do your SOC teams get in to investigate other tendencies? Do they have accounts that put them in every tendency? These are these are interesting things that could be fixed Oh Yeah, the logging in one-way DMZ stuff things like that are super important make sure that you have an audit log an event log Shell log if you're that crazy and it's one-way DMZ non-accessible always getting updated Very important stuff. I think the RPC signing stuff will help a lot with ensuring event logging works better in open stack I think that's big stuff coming in this I threw in a couple of awesome good reads in here and I don't know why it's not there, but I had a Had a GitHub link to the JSON database of all the vulnerabilities that's available now and I'm putting together more on Python dependency JSONs as well. So that'll be on my GitHub and I'll post that to sec stack and the Simplicity scales blog as well. So all this should be available for download from cloud scaling out of the places shortly So I'm now in the QA period Question and answers anyone have questions maybe I have answers or you guys have answers. So anyone Dead silence For the most part we're not involved with tenant security guidelines That's something that the vendors usually figure out for themselves But as a component of that they will ask us questions about how to implement their procedures And I think that's kind of a problem a lot of customers have this idea of well We already have these policy guidelines We're gonna follow them we're just gonna apply them and jury rig them to work with cloud And that's not really the right way to do it and that's why the government did things like Fed ramp they went Well, we have all these policies and they just don't work. So we need other ones that do work So I think there's a larger National discussion that needs to happen about how cloud security models and policies do operate I know Fed ramps not a bad starting point and parts of NIST NIST has a really great breakdown on security stuff So I would say those are two good models look at as a baseline if you need to throw them out to your customers That's what I got on that for now any other questions So well, we're already discussing the VPN as a service stuff I think networking lies is gonna be a bunch of really cool as a service capabilities They're gonna really solve the problems of specific people willing to invest effort in them But there's also, you know, the money-makers for instance like cloud passages style where you download a Baseline instance that they update the database on and do vulnerability checks One of the things I'd like to do with the vulnerability database if we get it going is something like an Automated checking this is, you know blue sky engineering at this point No idea if anyone even would ever even let me do this is do something like a state check inside of an open stack cluster Do hey, what have I got in terms of imports? We do this a lot, you know when identifying what API queries work and what don't the clients do this a lot as well So it'd be kind of nice if we could do a state check and say what versions of what things do I have plugged into? When I do an import and go let me query against the API and see if any of these things need an update And then we could integrate that with Horizon or something and it could go hey you need to update pipe on dependency X because and this thing has a CVE Right now for this version and if we could do more Notifications in that regard. I think that would help a lot. There's the problem with open stack is it's too damn big There's a lot of stuff going on there and people are having a hard time tracking it all so helping to make that more common community Supported I think is something that I'll be working on personally I don't know what you guys want to work on and that's really the issue right? It's open source Yeah Yeah, we probably could actually that's probably a good place for it We could do tempest checks against the vulnerability database for dependencies. That's not a bad idea That's something definitely worth looking at Yeah, very good idea Any other ideas Thoughts It's four o'clock now, so I think we covered this fairly quickly. Is everyone happy with where we are right now? Can I close up and head out? Okay, thank you guys


Check it, check, check it, this is Unique House, this is your boy, E-C-E-O, and I'm here with the lovely, amazing, official Miss Jamaica. What's going on? None, none. You know my day will go on. But I want to tell you all, make sure you like, subscribe, follow us on all social media platforms, including Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, Snapchat, you name it, we're on it. But Patreon is where you need to go because that's where you're going to see our full length interview. Just go ahead and sign up for our membership and you'll be able to see unlimited amount of full length interviews. And the same goes for YouTube. We do have a membership package on our YouTube channel as well. Man, thank you so much for that, Miss Jamaica. I appreciate you for that. Now people know, man. You're welcome. And we got a special guest in here today. She don't need no introduction, man.  You always said these people don't need no introduction, but they do. No, no, they don't. They do. First of all, this is my part of the segment and I don't need you telling me if they need an introduction or not. You know what I'm saying? Let's just stop there right now. Did I stop your little speech about the membership and what else you say when you say you're listening? Yes, it's a lot. Shout out to all the people that heard it when she said, hey, man, listen, man, Brianna Williams, man, she, Brianna Chardet. I was just about to say that, too. You cannot leave the Chardet out. Okay. Check it, man. Brianna Chardet Williams in the building. Man, this lady here, she is a counselor and she I think she in one of those, what is those fraternity things? So where are you? She wearing the, what is that you mean? What? See, now we're not going to do that on here. I told you that was a game. Don't you get on here with all that gang stuff. Okay. Don't do them sounds. I heard the sound. I'd have heard that before. You know, check it, man.  She's an educator, right? Yeah, she works and she does a lot of different things for the community down pretty sure, but we're about to get into it. Let's do it like we do. Okay. So we know you're a counselor, but I know growing up, you probably, that's not what you wanted to do growing up. Are you always wanting to be a counselor? In a way, I didn't know as a kid. I'm talking like, say from eight, nine, 10, you know, people ask you what you want to be when you grow up? Well, okay. So I had many dreams. My initial dream was to be a singer. I wanted to be Beyonce before she was Beyonce. Okay. But now that there is a Beyonce, my nickname realty is Beyonce. Oh, yeah. So I'm here. So you can sing. Yes, but only for Jesus, but I can dance. I'm not afraid to dance and all that kind of stuff. So initially I wanted to be an entertainment, but I've, I've always had a love for children. I, and I've always known that my purpose is to work with children. And so in high school, I knew I wanted to be a counselor. I didn't understand really the counseling world. And so now for me to be able to walk in a childhood dream and have visions and dreams of where, you know, God can take me. I'm really excited to. But before you get, because then, you know, because for me, when I think about people who go into counseling, um, and this might be only just me, um, I'm thinking, okay, something happened, traumatic, why they want to come and heal the world, they want to help all the kids, but they don't want them to go through what they've been through. So I would like to know what you've been through. Um, where you raised with your mom and dad in the same household. Were you? So no, I was raised in a single parent household with just your mom, with my mother and my sister. Yes. And your sister, where was your dad? Um, respectfully, I knew who my father was and I saw him periodically, but without due respect, he was more so over like a child support dad. Okay.    So he didn't come get you. No, I remember, um, at 10th birthday, everybody in their grandma called me and the only person that I wanted to call me was my dad and I sat at the bar stool or at the bar all day in the bar stool, feet swinging, blues waiting and everyone call me except for him. So I would not say that my father didn't love me. As I got older, I realized he was dealing with his own traumas. Um, and unknowingly, he was to me what his father was to him. Exactly. Um, did you ever sit down with him because not everybody have the guts or the opportunity to sit down and say to their parent depends on if, even if they're the type of person that will listen, say, you know what, I don't want you to say anything at the moment, but let me vent all of this that I have on my chest respectfully before, you know, you decide to go, so to say, um, and be like, why, you know, X, Y, Z, this is how I feel, because a lot of times we don't know what the other person is feeling because we don't express our feelings very well. So we can only assume how our other person feel or sometimes people get caught up in reality. They don't don't even think about it. So by us expressing, okay, because I did that when I got older, my mom and said, you know, why didn't you do this or why didn't you do that? Or this is what I was needing as a child, but you didn't do that. And then she was like, well, I needed something else as a child. So I over compensated on that for you, but that's not what I needed. You see what I mean? So it's just, they don't know because we don't communicate. So have you ever done that with him as when you got older? Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity because he passed away when I was 15 when you were to terminal cancer. So when he got sick and he was reaching out very frequently, like every day, I was more so annoyed. And I didn't understand that he was reaching out because he knew he was sick. You didn't know, he didn't tell you. No, no. So how did I feel once you so did he pass away before you were able to talk to him? Yeah, what was crazy is he was going in for surgery. We knew the cancer came back at that time. We didn't know the cancer had spread all over his body. So he was technical surgeon at a very infamous hospital on DFW and he fell going to the bus one day. When they opened him up for surgery, they realized the cancer had spread all over his body, which causes hip to break. So he was going in for hip surgery. During the surgery, he had seven to eight strokes, which caused a brain clot in his brain. So he automatically went into a coma. So there was no conversation. We didn't even know he was going into surgery until he was in the coma because me and my sister, we were the youngest. So they wanted my brothers wanted to protect us. And so when he didn't come out the coma, sorry, yeah, when he didn't come out the coma, they called us and he was in the coma for about three months and he in the past. And so there was no dialogue. No, hey, baby, I love you. No, I'm sorry. No, I forgive you. How did you feel? I know I can imagine all the mixed feelings you had. Of course, we were upset that he kept it from us.  I mean, just a mix of emotions. Were you angry at him? Yeah, absolutely. Because up until four years ago, having a conversation with my brother who lives in Houston, I really thought that my daddy didn't love me. But having that conversation with my brother and realizing again that my father was overcoming his own traumas, he did love me. He just didn't know how to display it because he didn't get that love from his father. OK. And did you ever learn how to forgive it? Was that the the moment when you learned how to forgive yourself? Or did you ever forgive yourself? I mean, yeah, I forgave myself and my father and a lot of other people. The goal is to be able to forgive like Joseph or Jesus. I'm not being like Jesus forgives and forget. Yeah, remember. Yeah, yeah, that's the goal. And we're still working on that. But forgiveness is a beautiful thing. It does truly make you feel free. It does. And it releases a lot. And I always tell people and one thing he always look at me, I always say everything happens for a reason. Here we go. And the reason why I say that is it might not even be for you. It might be for somebody else who is watching your journey and is going through something right now with their father, not answering the phone like and not knowing what's going on that they need to answer the phone. It's just any little speck of your journey that could help millions of people just listening to it or just hearing. It it it can it can help a lot. That's all I'm going to say. But I really do believe sometimes it could be for your healing. It could be for your father who already passed along. You know, we don't know or you don't know because if he actually before he passed away, you know, did it between him and God. You know what I mean? Because that's my main purpose. Like what do you believe in God? Because at the end of the day, when God decided to take you or any of us, it's your relationship between you and him, not nobody else.  But it's also it's tough, but you you're built for it. You understand what I'm saying? Because you've been through so much. You're able to help people. I think that's live, you know what I'm saying?   How tough is it parallel in between, you know what I mean? Understanding your faith and being able to talk to people about their situation. It's very tough, and it's often something that I still struggle with today, because I know what my I know what religion says to a certain aspect. I know what my relationship with God says, but then I also know what science says, and that's where the counseling piece comes in, because counseling believes in theories and the scientific things and what is data showing things of that nature. But for me, I battle between spirit and counseling, but I'll be honest. My spirit always wins because at the end of the day, I can't help what I believe in, no matter what I've gone through, no matter what I've experienced, no matter what things look like, I know God to be true, even on my worst days, even in death, God still gets a glory. And so for me, I'm always putting my faith and my spirituality over what my theory says. So no, I will be honest. I'm not a spiritual counselor. I'm more so of a life gives you more experience ever than a book will or what science shows, if that makes sense. But when did you get to this point in your life? Because I know that you weren't always at that point. Like I said, well, I'm losing my father at the age of 15, helped me develop my own relationship with God. And so like I said, although that dream of counseling was always there, when I initially sought out to be a counselor after high school, I struggled between science and Christianity at the time. And I chose to do away with seeking counseling because my spirit was leading me to do so. But I don't I don't know like as life progressed, even after losing my mom in twenty twenty and I still struggle with it, I'm still grieving. I realized that God has caused me to go through the journey of grief in order to help children every single day that I see who are dealing with grief. It's like it's one thing to deal with it at the age of twenty nine. But when you have a kid who who doesn't understand God, who doesn't understand life in itself, why what's going on come to you and and have these mix of emotions and you can be like, wow, like this is why God put me here for you. That's dope. I like it. I think it's needed. God let you go through the things that you went through, like I always say and he talks about it in John chapter nine. I go back to that the blind man who basically, you know, people say, who did see and they ask Jesus, the disciples did this man or his parents that he would be made blind. And he said, neither did his father, seeing nor his parents, but that the works of the father may be made manifest through him. Sometimes you go through things in order to show people the miracle in God in you. And I think that's what happens a lot of times. So as you go through your experience and in life, you don't know why they happening, but it was a reason for you going through what you went through so much so that you're able to talk and communicate and connect with those children. And I think that's not real life. Can I say something? Go ahead. When it came to my father, because the relationship was different. When God took me through that journey, I understood, OK, you're taking me through this because this is going to help somebody down online and literally two weeks after my father passed, my childhood best friend, father passed. And then we had a man from the church who was amazing bearing sample. He passed and it really hurt me. So as I've, you know, maneuver through life, I've encountered people who lost their fathers and I was able to help with my mother. I was like, why do I have to be the example for other people? Again, again, like, God, this is unfair and this hurts because you can handle it. Because you can handle it. So maybe so. But I promise as a school counselor when I counted kids, again, who's dealt with grief and I have to look them through their eyes and I have to ask them, have you felt all these five emotions, which are like the five stages of grief? And they're like, yeah. What are the five stages of grief? Five stages of grief are sadness, which also may be defined as depression, which in the grief process, it's OK and it's expected. If you're going through depression outside of grief, it's a real concern. So you have depression, you have acceptance, you have denial, you have guilt, you have anger, and I believe that's all five. And no particular order are everybody's different. Everybody's different. For me personally, I have felt all five of those emotions in one day. And so that's the conversation that I have with my kiddos and I let them know like if you felt these type of emotions, that's OK. You're going through the grieving process. So what do we do? How do we channel those emotions in a positive way? To where it's not eating you alive on the inside. But grief is a it's a tough battle. I don't even think the and there's no time limit. There's no time limit on grief. It can go for a very long time or for a very short time. Yeah. But helping all these different people, does that help you with your grief? Does that help you heal by helping others? I don't know if it necessarily helps me heal, but it helps me see that God took me through this for a reason. It takes me back to that. Yeah, because I was wondering, does it make you relive all of those feelings over and over and over? Like, you know, like somebody going through a certain trauma and it means somebody who's talking about almost the same thing that they went through when sometimes some people try to forget about it. You know what I mean? So you can put it behind them so they can move on to a regular life. Does it keep make you relive it every day?  So although I may emphasize, I don't have time to think about my own process because I'm trying to take you to the next step in the healing process. So again, not necessarily heal. It may make you again realize I went through this for a reason or yeah, this emotion may be triggered. If somebody came to me talking about their mom and cancer, that's super sensitive to me. But if your mom unfortunately passed away in a car accident or something of that nature, I can I can work with you. I can empathize with you on a level to where I understand that that pain of losing a mom is unvathomable. You said it could be very sensitive.  Because I'm not of the state to to help you right now with that. When I lost my I lost my mom July twenty twenty. My my mentor lost her mother in December. My principal at the time lost her mother in December. Another coworker lost her mother in December. So not all were cancer. One one's parent went on hospice. That's how my mom went. Another one was just illness. Another one was COVID. So all other situations were different. It was still super sensitive. And I remember thinking like, God, what do I say to these people? And he taught me in that moment. Sometimes you don't need to say anything. Your presence sometimes is more than enough. So I was just there and I was just like crack a joke or check in with them and they will really appreciate someone just understanding but just being there via their presence. Because I'm glad you said that because there's so many of us. I'm almost everyone have a friend who lost a loved one or going through depression for some reason or form it might not even be death. It could be just anything. And when you love somebody, you you you want to help them. You want them to shake back real quick and you don't know what to say. When as you get older, you have a lot of friends who've lost people. So I'll be looking at my Facebook and you hear rest in peace, this person, rest in peace, that person.  Yes, you say condolences to you and your family.  But I do believe that just letting somebody know that I'm here for you. But then I feel mad when they don't use that olive branch and they call me and say, I just just listen. Don't say anything that's listen or just make me feel like I'm useful.  I definitely I commend you. I think counseling is needed in certain situations.  It's the same thing, really. You guys put a name and stuff on it. You fancy it up, but it's really the same thing. I truly believe what King Solomon say when he said there's nothing new under the sun in the book of Ecclesiastics. I really understand why he said it because you chokers are not going to trick me into thinking that you came up with something new because it's nothing new up under the sun. Do you believe in because OK, we're older. How do you like 20 something? No, really. I'm going to say 24, 23, something like that. Celebrate? But no, the reason why I'm asking this question because, you know, when we're younger, it wasn't nothing about mental illness. It wasn't everywhere. Never did talk about it. It was you need a whooping. You need to chill.  I would love to strike me going down. I'm saying to you now, since you're in this field, because everybody's using this label as mental illness, we all have mental illness and I can understand some form or fashion, but yet some of it, you just need to quit trying to use this. My argument is mental health really is real. Right. My mother was born in 57, so baby boomer. She grew up in a generation where going to see counseling was taboo. She up like the last year of her life because we had so many issues between her and I, I asked her, why would you go to counseling with me? She said, yeah, I was shocked because four months prior when I was going through mental illness for real for real, she told me, I don't know if I'm allowed to say, but she was like, every mental health. I'm like, what? She didn't think it was real. She's basically like, she needs to do it and get over it. Right. And so I feel like your generation, my generation, we were taught resilience. This generation where mental health is real and it seems or it comes off as everybody's making excuse for how people are feeling or we pacify it. My concern is that we're not teaching these young people resilience. Back when I was growing up where you were growing up, I was like, deal with it. It needs to be a balance. Figure it out, right? Right. These, nowadays it's like everybody is just so ready to give up every little thing. And then when I tell people it's like, hey, life is going to continue to get tougher and tougher, you're built to last. Like put one foot in front of the other and keep moving. Right. Work through your concerns or your issues and go from there.  People know about essential oils. You can use essential oils to help you with your anxiety and your depression. Back then when it was taboo to our family members, they were dealing with it on their own or they turned to drugs or alcohol. Now we have the tools that we need to succeed. So use those tools and push through and be a better individual. Right. I think what mental health to me, it brought awareness to say, okay, sit down, think about your childhood, your past because everything that you go through right now, a lot of it stems from back then. And not only think about, because children only think about themselves, period. Think about, okay, just like you said, it's my father, the reason why he was like this because of his father. Think about, okay, the reason why whoever's treating me a certain way, maybe that's stemming from not just them but something else.  Let's start to use our brain and start to think about why is this happening? Not, oh God, it's me, me, me, me, me. So I'm liking where it mental health, it makes you think more beyond the surface. But let's deal with it. As I said, have a balance, toughen it up with certain things, figure it out and toughen up and move on. Not soak into this, oh, I need medicine because not everything you need depression pills for, but everybody's like, oh, give me some pills, let me pacify this. I'll teach, I wanna be numb to this because you're not dealing with it.  Now we're coming into a generation who wants to break generational curses who realizes this didn't start with me, but it is gonna end with me. So that's the beauty of where we are right now when it comes to mental health. As far as medication, this is probably very taboo. I'm anti-medicine. I believe in the holistic approach, which is where my spirituality comes in because I believe God can heal some things that man says can never be healed. And so I believe in doing the work and taking the holistic approach, what can you do? Seek God fast, pray, do whatever you need to do to get healed, to break those generational curses opposed to medicating. Medicine for me will always be the last resort. And some people, which I totally agree with you 100%, but I've heard some counselors and some people say, well, it's past that. It's something, it's a medical imbalance in your brain that you're gonna need medicine for, that you're gonna need this for. And I'm like, but God can heal you. Or if you sit down and really put your mind to it. And really, for me personally, this is only me. When just like an alcoholic, they have to first say I'm an alcoholic to start seeking help. Okay, once you start realizing that's the devil that's attacking you, whether through somebody else or through your own mind, you realize that every time something comes at you, a thought, because everybody have negative thoughts. Not one person is exempted. Once that thought come in your mind, I'll be like devil, I don't have time for you today because I recognize what it is. Even it can come from God because God can be testing you. So don't get me wrong thinking that everything bad comes from the devil. Bad things do come from God, but it's a test. I'm like, God, I know you trying to test me today or the devil don't bother with me. I'm gonna overcome this. It all starts in your mind.  My husband and I have been together 20 years. Everybody know that relationships have their ups and downs.  I'm gonna sit down and be quiet, find different approaches. Sometimes I have to be quiet and like send a text. You have to know different routes to take so that you don't end up going crazy in the hospital, having a mental breakdown, because what it's gonna do, deteriorate your body at the end of the day. Any of this stuff deteriorates your body because stress, that's what stress does. It gets you ill, causes all different sort of things to happen to you. So why are you gonna do that to yourself? And that's how I think. That's me personally. And I hope somebody can take something from that.  Let's see how you got to that gang. It's not a gang. Put some respect on that. I'm just saying, just let me know how you got to the gang council. We're already down. That's all I'm saying. We're already down. We're already down. We're already down to the women's selfish watch. We've been working since 1913. Let me just say this, you know, the road that leads to destruction is broad. But narrow is the way that leads to eternal life. You know, I'm not saying nothing about your broad roads but I'm just saying what I'm saying about the Word of God.  Like how many years it took her to get to where she is now? Yeah, like I'm gonna hear your process of getting into that gang. Okay, so I have always been great academically or excelled academically. I graduated from D Lancaster High School in Lancaster, Texas, class of 2010 with honors, top 15% of my class, my fan. And so I did, had 3.8 GPA coming out of high school and was automatically admitted into any college that I wanted to. I didn't- Service costs? In Texas, yes. Okay. Didn't know much about college. The first of my family, I didn't know much about college. The first of my family to actually go to college didn't know nothing about fast food. So that was an interesting journey. I stayed because I could not afford to go to school. I wanted to go to UT Arlington. So I stayed, worked a year and a half, went to Cedar Valley, saved up some money. And I really wanted to get away from home because my relationship with my mom was not the best. So I ended up going to the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff in 2012. And I graduated in 2016 with a Bachelors of Liberal Arts, English Liberal Arts. I do have an English degree. But that's not anything I have to do with counseling. Ooh, my mental, poor, poor, poor. Okay. Little flooring. So I did a makeup company. I worked, I was a communication liaison. You did a makeup company? For a makeup company, Anastasia Beverly Hills. Oh, okay. When I first got out of school, it was nice, but God was really beating me up that first year because I wasn't doing what he wanted me to do, which was to work with kids. So I went through an all-star program, got my teacher's certificate, was a teacher for five years. And I knew that. Teaching what grade? Grade point. No, grade. Okay. So I taught first grade my first year, which was amazing. They're like six years now. They're younger, cute. They don't get that much trouble. That's easy. Amazing experience, but I'm a little firm and stern, so I like older kids. Ended up transitioning to middle school. I taught sixth, seventh, and eighth grade English. And now I have transitioned to school counseling. Currently. So did you have to go back? Okay, go, keep going. Currently, I'm a student at the University of North Texas at Dallas, where I'm obtaining a master's in school counseling and clinical mental health. So I finished up this summer and I walk in December and I'm just really grateful. So you can be a counselor before you finish getting your degrees for counseling? Yeah, with a favor of God and the way that some things work out. But yes, this is my first year of school counseling because technically I finished with my school counseling side in the summer. Okay. I had like a year left to do all my internships and practicums. And so like, yeah, I finished in the summer. I graduated in December and I'm ready to begin my journey in expressive arts therapy. Eventually I would like to have my own performance, Arts Academy, where people come and get healing through music, whether it's getting in the studio, dropping the song, busting some beats through art, through drama, through dance. See, people don't realize that's what a lot of rappers do. They unload all their stress and frustration right into their music. And they say they feel awesome when they're done. But so right now you're only helping the children that you at the school or do you take on people otherwise? No, so right now is I'm just school counseling. However, I do look forward to the clinical mental health side where I'll be at LBC. And my goal is to heal multi-generations. So I'm doing the children. I'll have the parents and then the elderly so I can heal up to three generations at one time. And I really feel that that's what's lacking because you're at the school helping the children, but the children have to go back home and deal with the parents. And he always tell me I watch too much TV, honestly, but I always feel like ideas come from reality for these TV shows. So when these kids go back home and feel like, okay, I'm doing better. I'm healed and whatever.  You know what I mean? So if they can receive some healing and when I mean healing, I really feel healing starts with forgiveness. Whereas some of those people are holding onto things or holding onto things of people who passed away because the parents and then the grandparents are how they were treated and whatever. But like, well, I had to go through this. What makes you any different? You gonna have to go through the same thing that I'm going through. There's some people who deal with it like that. Some people reverse it and saying, no, I'm not gonna have you going through what I'm going through. I'm gonna end that right now and they seek help. But some people who turn to drugs, alcohol, all of that, they're like, what make you any better than me? Because they're swallowing in all of their, you see what I mean?   You listen to every single thing in which I know someone else who is going to school for counseling as well. And she said, that's what they teach you in counseling. They teach you that you're supposed to listen to everything, do not give your own opinions.  You cannot give your, is that true? Yes, the biggest thing in counseling is the client does more of the talking. You do more so of the listening and facilitating here and there. What I would realize, what I would want people to realize with counseling is initially, me seeking counseling, prior to me starting grad school, I thought the counselor healed me. No, you do the work. And that's what I want people to really understand. It takes great courage to go and sit in front of someone and detail everything to a stranger, right? But with you detailing everything to that stranger, it's a safe place and it's confidential unless you disclose harm to self, harm to someone else. Right, then they have to report it. Yeah, right. But it's a safe place where you can, even things that you may be ashamed to tell God out loud, even though he knows, right? You can say that to that person and they can give you tools and strategies to elevate your life or maneuver through your healing journey. But the counselor does not heal you. And you don't give advice. No, we do not give advice. That's what she was telling me. You do not give advice because if something ever goes wrong, then they'll come back.  No, I can tell you what science is. To a certain aspect, depending on your beliefs and the relationship that we build between client and counselor, I may be able to give you my spiritual input, but at the end of the day, it's all on you. So I'm here to push you to the next level. When you come to me, you have to be ready to heal. And depending on what the healing journey looks like, I'm there to assist you and aid you along the way. But it starts with you. You have to have a made-up mind which goes back to kind of what he was saying earlier. You have to have a made-up mind whether you believe in Christ, whether it's spiritual, whatever your religion or spirituality is, you have to have a made-up mind that I'm at this place. I don't like where I'm at. How can I move to the next level? I want to continue to evolve and grow. Since you only deal with kids right now, right? So you really haven't had anybody come to you and ask you, do you believe in God? My, surprisingly, my kids do. Oh, they do? Surprisingly, I have counseled a lot of parents and then I have my friends or I have adult conversations. So no, they may not, I don't intentionally put on my counseling hat every time I sit and talk to adults, but it is, I'm battling between Brianna and counseling lens or hat. It's gonna come in. Yeah. It came in on me and I shut it down.  Can we talk about that though?  Go ahead and talk about it. God said, boom, boom, boom, boom. Let me show you what you're dealing with. This is my son who I'm very well-pleased in. Amen. You know what I'm talking about? And he just pretty much stepped into the room and said, you know what, let me show her something that's extraordinary in you. But to all the people, his argument was he does not need counseling. Well. I'm not here to say that you do or you don't. I support it either way.  I just want black men to get healed. And so no, it's not necessarily you sitting in front of a counselor and talking about your issues. Maybe it's community. Maybe it's you getting amongst the brothers who can really teach you some things and help you work through some things that they've been through, like getting amongst wisdom.  Women were receptive to doing the healing, whatever that looks like. Black men or more like? Let me hold everything in. Let me speak for black men. Cause I don't need y'all to speak for black men. That's the biggest problem. Y'all have issues with letting the black men speak for themselves.  And that's for a reason.  Now, let me say what I have to say.  You say, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're the prey, you know? So we understand that we go through stuff. You know, we understand. And you got to understand when I said I don't want to come to a counselor. It wasn't because I don't get counseling because the word of God that I believe in says that God is my counselor. So I ride with that, you know? Now is that for everybody? I don't tell everybody do what I'm doing. But I am saying that there's a place with me and God where I can tell him in and every everything about me. There's nothing hidden that me and God can't talk about together. So that little statement you made while ago about if you can't tell God, then I get it. Maybe that's that person.  You know what I'm saying? When it comes down to who I am, that's what Adam did. He got naked. You know what I'm saying? He was naked before he was so-called clothed, you know, with the animals hide that God put on him. So when you able to get naked before God, you understand who you are and you know who you got to go to. There's a thing you go by called the Holy Spirit where I can talk and walk with God, he didn't walk with God until one day he was taken up. It was an example to show us that there can be a relationship that's unbelievable with you and God. But that's your personal relationship with God. Not everyone is there. So when you do have no believers coming into Christ or you have people who have done things that they are ashamed of or you have people who are angry with God because of some type of grief or loss, it's not that easy. To totally surrender to God. That's what you're saying. They hadn't totally surrendered. Because when you totally surrendered. No, no, no, no, no. Totally surrendered. Do you know what totally surrendering is? Yeah, it's totally surrendering. And you can't even put that into words. It's just, I don't- Hey, you see what I'm saying? There's levels.  That's all I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with you saying what you're saying because there are levels. And if a person hadn't gotten there yet, then I get it. And you talking to them is a form of you helping them or letting them talk to you is a form of them getting there. All I say is people don't do the research in the Word of God like that. They're not reading and totally surrendering themselves to God in a way that they can understand how maneuvering life when it comes to God. They set back and wait on a traditional way to be taught. And then as they talk, they have to try to figure it out because that's their learning process. And I'm cool with that. But that's that breaking generational curses, right? Because I'm sure your family members was like at people, your grandmother. You don't know any of these Wallace. Let me just stop you right there. You don't know any of these Wallace. You don't know Corrine Smith. You don't know any of these. You don't know Lorraine. You don't know these people. But in the words of Tamela, man, I can only imagine. Right? That they were in church every Sunday. No. 7.39 Sunday through 11 a.m., 3 p.m., 5 p.m. Not my people. But for you to feel like I don't have to practice religious practices is more so intimate relationship with God. That's that's different from what our people believed. Well, that's your people, but my people too. My people didn't, they just didn't go. They played like they was doing it a lot of times. That's what they do.   You see what I'm saying?  We don't know. All I'm saying is we try to reenact the tabernacle worship or the synagogue worship. And we try to figure it out. But when Jesus came, he died for you and I so we could have a direct contact and relationship to God. Let's get Friday, talk about it. I'm just being real. And people do not accept it in that way. They still try to recreate the temple and they try to recreate the holiest of holiest and they put a pastor in the place of a priest and they try to go through him to get to God and that's not what the way to God tells us to do. Did you hear what I just said? They try to recreate something that Jesus came and debunked because it was only a shadow of things to come. And that's what you're dealing with when you start to deal with people who say, we go here and your people did this and you did, they're doing a traditional thing while they're trying to reenact the tabernacle, the synagogue worship. And that's what they do and they act as if they have the Septuagint and they're going in and understanding this way to reenact, going to worship a place where God used to be in a building place and it used to be the Ark of the Covenant and it was a place where you would have to go to see him. But now you have Jesus that so-called sits on the right hand side of the father and they don't treat it that way. A lot of times they're trying to figure out how to go through this to get to that. And at the end of the day, all I'm saying is, it's okay to have leadership around you but I understand that that's all that is because Jesus is still Lord. That's all I'm saying. You gotta know him for yourself. There you go, that's all I'm saying. So I got a question. So with counselors, anything someone come to you and speak to you is supposed to be spoken in confidence. You're not supposed to say to anybody else. Have you ever heard of any cases where counselors go back and all shooting the breeze with their friends and it gets out that they spill the beans about a client? Counseling, education. Woo, honey, I pray for educators. My God is a different world. I think just talking in conversation, everyone discloses something. However, as long as you're not giving intimate details and names and specifics, it's okay. For me, I am still technically under supervision in two parts. And so, yes, there have been times where I have, again, kind of disclosed some information but not specifics under supervision and legally that is okay because you're seeking assistance or help or whatever when it comes to helping a potential client. How to deal with that certain situation. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, but I was just wondering like, you know, law and it doesn't have to be anybody you even know, like case, because whenever you are learning, they might bring up, oh, a case, this is what happened and then the client sued the counselor because it got back to them that they told XYZ about such and such and such and whatever. When we take that oath or we follow our code of ethics, everything is confidential, like I say, unless it discloses some type of harm or you give permission. And even in that, there are specifics that you are specific people that you are able to alert or tell other than that. Like I tell my kids and I'm the best secret keeper in the world, you can't talk to me about a teacher, your mama, your daddy, the principal, anybody is gonna stay in these four walls. I do believe that everybody somewhat needs a counselor whether they seek it or not for the main reason that they, we're human beings. So sometimes we think one track minded. We don't always think of all the aspects of a situation.  They might say, they might, you know, and you're not actually telling them what to do. You're just opening their mind to other avenues of thinking. You know what I mean? So I mean, oh, I didn't think of that. Yeah, you're talking about somebody that's a good listener. You can call them a counselor, whatever you want to communicate with others is a big deal. And being able to talk to people, we try to put titles in position to not guarantee productivity. Some of these people are not even in a space where they may even be good counselors. You have bad counselors, you have bad preachers. You have bad, a lot of things because of a title we can misconceive some things when they come down to people. I'm being honest. And that is something we gotta be careful about.  We gotta be careful because we can lead people in the wrong direction as well. But we're not leading anybody in the wrong direction. Everybody ain't good counselors. But the title, but only thing the title does for me, the title positions you for me to know where to go find you. You understand what I mean? So because you are trained and you went to class and you know certain things, I know this is your title.  This counselor, because if the person doesn't have any title, I wouldn't know who to find, where to find, where to look. So the title is not that I'm putting this person up on this pedestal to say that they're like God or like whoever, but I just know where I can go and find this person. It's easier for me to find. Well- One of my pastor is or was prior to COVID and my mother passing was pastor Oscar Epps.  Like even a pastor would tell you to go to- Well, wait a minute. First of all, that emphasis on that pastor thing ain't cute to me. I'm not worried about no dang emphasis on no pass, no man at the end of the day. That's what, again, another title where we have to be able to condition ourselves to understand that we're gonna have to do some self healing. We're gonna have to do some research. We're gonna have to be responsible as it as people. And you say, well, but what they need somebody because they going through it. I agree. Yeah, well, I'm gonna be honest with you.  You might need a whooping. I agree with that.    And I agree. My healing journey started way before I got out to seek counseling in a professional realm. But what I'm saying is, respectfully, black women, we go to our musician, our hairdresser, that's our go-to girl. We tell her everything. However, when you look at the lens of a counselor, it's your right. We have been trained. We have the expertise to take you to the next level. Anybody can listen our day. Anybody can give you advice. Your barber could be like your wife tripping. You may not wanna talk to her for a couple of days, but is that sound advice? Do you really think that I'm gonna set up and listen to my barber or my barber, my counselor, my pastor, my, I'm gonna listen to God. And that's the way it's gonna be. I'm not for the set-up or an act like the word is not true for me and others who believe the way they should when it comes down to self-awareness and reading and researching. But I get what you're saying. People are not trying to do nothing on their own. They think somebody gonna do it for them.  The difference is we're friends and barbers and everybody, they're telling you what to do.  Why they got to be a thing? No, I'm just saying giving an example. Leave your wife or- No, that's not your barber. That's your home girl. That's not your barber. Your barber, no, that's your home girl doing it. Why is the girl gonna tell you? Leave your husband. Don't put that on us. Men say that stuff, too. Women mostly say it. I done heard it more from women. Whatever, men say it. So all I'm saying is don't set up her and put that on the barber. Y'all done put it, y'all. Oh my God. That beautician, that beautician, that beauty supply place y'all go to, that place wherever y'all going to get your little wine and drink, y'all better be careful on what you're talking about in there. Don't put that on us. But with a counselor, counselors do not give their own, should not- No, we don't give our personal input. Give your own personal input. They just make you dig down- That's the counselors that you guys are describing. There's some counselors out there that is telling everything. You don't know. You've never been to a counselor. Exactly, I'm just saying, you don't know. I don't want to set up her and try to glorify this movement. No, they're not trained to do that. People are fancying up counseling, right? Right now, this is a place where, people are going to talk about me about this. But please. Uh-uh, I'm going to tell you something. It's a counselor's world right now. It's cute. It's very cute to say, I'm going to see counseling. You should see counseling. That's powerful. No, stop. That is something that is a trend right now. That is a trend that was not a trend before.   But some people don't have the tools to do something. Some people don't have the tools to do something. You're going to have to do it. If I'm your parent, I'm going to tell you to get up. Parenting is so different. My God. I'm going to tell you to get up. Because that's what they do. They call their mama before they call their counselor. If their mama's still living. If their daddy's still living. If they pass her around. And then he tells them, well, you probably need to see counseling. Boy, if you don't get out of here, my grandpa and them didn't do counseling. They will whoop you. But who's to say that that was right? Who's to say it was wrong? I'm all right. But what I'm saying is that who's to say it was wrong? I'm like, who's to say it was wrong? Who's to say it was wrong? The poor punishment stemmed from slavery. Who's to say it was wrong? No, no, no. No, the word of God didn't stem from no slavery. You're going to get put off the package. Yeah, you might be get put off here. If the scripture says sparing out the rod that has spawned a child, then you tell them they're getting strange. What does that sound like? What does that feel? No, no, no.  I'm not saying that they're down.  No, not Tommy. I'm not saying that.  Sit down over there.  Some people are taking you to go and deal with this. When I'm saying some people take you there. They do is and then whenever I grow up and he's hacking the food, they say he need a counselor. I'm going to leave with my counselor head on because here he actually is showing these things. He needed a counselor. When that boy grows up, he got that little thing tied on him. They tying things on kids now. They'll tie a whole little rope on the boy. I seen him at the airport. We, it was a little boy, he ride, he had a little rope. Come here Tommy. They bring, and they bring him in. Well, you tie ropes on that child. You know what I'm saying? Now he gets older. You think you didn't discipline that child? He fell out in the stove 15 times. You ain't did nothing. Now all of a sudden he get older and he go to acting out in a growner way that he been doing in a small and a toddler way. This tantrum turns into a crime later on. A crime. Now he's 16 in the TYC. You know what I'm saying? He's up, he's got older. And you say, oh man, I wasn't a good parent.    I don't care if she's second in command up there at that school. She might be, what they call it, it's a lunatic. I don't give a dare by none of that.  I went up to that school and got him. I say, wait a minute, she was in the first, you remember that time when she wouldn't use restroom? And they, the count, I went up there, she was talking to my daughter. She say, oh my goodness, she won't, she's her stomach is hurting. I say, what?  Okay, I said, get in the truck. I took her to the house.  Next thing you know, she use the restroom. I took her back up there. Oh, she's back. You know how they were sitting up there trying to baby this situation. And I'm being, I'm being real. I know my child. So I knew what she needed. And when I took her back, she didn't have no problem, no more. And I didn't want her, I didn't want her. I didn't, I just told her what she needed to do. But that woman up there doing that little, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Because I have a counselor to do that. Oh my goodness. Come on, man. So you made a boo boo. You know, come on, man. This is, this is our children. You, what do you think you're doing at that child when you do that? But what do you think you're doing to the child when you beat them with a tree branch? You're going over the top. Nobody told you to beat them with no tree branch. I just told y'all didn't want to. But that's what, that's how, that's how, that's how. First we met them and nobody used them. No, I have a deeper, I have a deeper voice. I don't, I'm cool with the licks that I took. I took my leg. Yo, I took my leg. Yeah, and we all did. But you didn't? I don't know if you even got it. Don't do it. No, you are not. You couldn't do it. The drill was crazy. If you knew where I was coming from. It actually was too. All I'm saying is our people, you can be light with this procedure that you guys keep explaining to a point where you're not helping somebody. You're hurting them. But what? You know what I think with everything that, everybody's talking about, what I'm thinking is that it's balance. It's a little bit of what you're saying. It's a little bit of what he's saying. It's all balance. I agree with that. And that's what everybody has a problem with because it's easier to go one extreme or the other extreme. That's real. But it's hard to find a balance with anything that we do in life. I agree with that.  No, I tell. Oh, wow.  Don't give it to us, counselor. I totally agree. I don't think that there's a, I don't have children. So I can't. I could have figured that out. I can't say that there's a right way and a wrong way. What I'm saying is who's to say that our parents' ways were right or our ancestors' ways were right or wrong, right? Well, I'm gonna. So you have to do what's best for the child, but excessive beating or excessive little Johnny. Ain't nobody said no excessive beating. Shady Boo Boo, you know, you gotta find a balance. People always say, and my heart goes out to parents. Because sometimes I look at the kids and I'm like, well, I don't know. You know, I understand your parents. I don't know either, but I'm gonna figure it out. There's no rule book or handbooks of parenting. And even if there's someone that comes from the Bible, that's not true. There you go. So that was the biggest story I've heard on the show right then. There ain't no book. There is a book. People say that all the time. There's a book. There's a few books out there. There's a book for everything. Even then, there are all children. Everybody is different and how you approach things are different. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why are you coming up here? When he snuck away to the temple and Mary was looking for him and he said, oh, but I'm saying, should he not have gotten beaten for sneaking out? No, he didn't sneak out. Why? Because he was a son of God. First of all, you got the story wrong. He didn't sneak out. What's the story? They left him on accident. They left him. Yeah, he didn't sneak off. He was talking and they didn't realize they had left without him. Jesus was something else.  He was something else.  He's like his mama. That's what I'm talking about right here. This is what I'm talking about. But hold on. Let me say this. Hold on. But what I'm saying, no, but to me, it's almost the same thing like, OK, example, Shamari, when she was younger, I remember going to the balloon festival up there in McKinney and on the way back, we stopped at a gas station.  And I had my other baby in the basket. So we stopped at a gas station, she was changing his diaper, whatever. She was right beside me and I felt her. All of a sudden, I looked, she had wandered off. She was over there talking to some other people and I'm like, if you don't get you. So in that case, it's almost the same thing like, you know, when he wandered off. But hold on. You weren't paying attention to my daughter. I didn't know nothing about that. It would have been a problem. I can tell you that right now.  And you probably be keeping your eyes on it. It'd be a problem. I've always told this story. So anyway, the difference is when she went back and was like, when Mary went back and was speaking to him, he answered her correctly. Like, I'm about my father's business. That's why he didn't get in the- That's a smart remark. I understand it's true, Jesus. But that's a smart remark.  It was a smart remark. So what I'm saying is- Let me just cut you out of that right now. First of all, you have a, I see you have an attitude about Jesus and him not just being. Well, if you loved him so much, you would be understanding. That's the problem. You're not understanding what Jesus- We are mad at his image and he gets us more than anybody. You understand these kids, but you don't understand Jesus when he was a kid. What kind of counselor is that? Okay. You know what I'm saying? Jesus was a child when that happened, but you don't understand that. Okay, so even when he was facing death and he was like, Jesus, I mean, God, you sure it's not another way we can get out of this? Like you- Me, Jesus? Like me, God- You paraphrasing, that's the living bother. I am paraphrasing. That's the NIV version. It made us, you know, like none of us want to go through some type of suffering. We all be like, God, why me? Are you sure? Like really me? It just, it really made him human and that's what I love and respect about him.  He read the disciples plenty of times. Anybody talking about that? Well, you got to understand, no matter how he tried to read the disciples or get them where they were going, they had issues and at the end of the day, you know, all I could say is, you know, you have a lot of stuff to say about Jesus, but you listen to your people, you counsel, you know what I mean? All I'm saying is, you guys have a tough job and I know it's needed. Conversation, communication with other individuals is what I'll call it. It's needed. Being able to communicate in a way to where people can be put in a better position. As I talked about, what was that boy named? The guy that offed himself that was on the Ellen show, Hitch, or what's his name? Chip. Chip, Twitch. Him, you know, basically, if he had somebody that he could have conversated with before he went and, you know, done what he done, somebody he could have picked up the phone and called, you know, counsel, friend, otherwise, somebody that could have helped him, could have helped him, yes, but at the end of the day, all I'm saying is, when you see these situations coming your way, I know that there's somebody needed to conversate with. I just say that we put a lot of titles on a lot of things and we create these waves to where we try to act as if we're pretty and then fancy them up. I'm just telling you that it's a conversation. It's a way, an eloquent way of having conversation where you have favor to be able to intellectually guide somebody out of a situation where they may have been going the wrong way. I like that we're a favor because you do have, just like you have to be called to teach these children because they're- That's it, that's it, I agree with that. Different breed and, you know, you have to be ordained by God, you have to be called and ordained in the ministry of helping, the helping industry which counseling falls under. And so, yeah, it does take a special, unique individual to- What about the, what did you think about it when you seen that it happened with Twitch? So at that time I was not on social media and I'm still not on social media heavy because- You don't know what happened? No, I knew it happened but I didn't follow the story in details because I try to protect my peace and things of that nature. Cause I take so much in on a daily basis that the extra, I try not to overload myself with information but what I will say in reference to self-harm, suicide, a lot of people really don't wanna kill themselves. They just want the pain to be over. But what I would encourage people is that if you just keep on a little while longer, you'll build up some type of resilience and you'll realize that if I made it through this, I can make it through whatever comes my way. And so I just encourage people to just keep going and keep fighting. The thing is that people know that but at the same time, cause I've met some people who have tried to commit suicide before. That's one thing I loved about always having this story, we've had this story for a very long time, is that I've met people who maybe didn't even come, I believe that God sent them in here, honestly, because they didn't even come to buy anything and when they come in, they tell me their whole full life story that's unload everything. And I remember meeting this lady that, you know, we were talking about depression and everything like that. And a lot of times my feeling about that is especially when you have children or you have a husband or you have, you know, people who love you. And I'm like, how can you think about killing yourself when you have this person to live for, that person to live for? I understand you might not have the money or this went wrong, that went wrong, whatever. And be like, they'll be better off without me, especially because a lot of people feel like, oh, he will take care of them better than I would. Or my mom will take care of them better than I would or whatever, but nobody can ever replace a mom or a father, you know what I mean? So I don't understand how, but then, and I was telling her this, I don't understand how anybody can do this. And she was like, in that moment, when you're thinking about committing suicide or doing anything, you're not thinking about kids, family, anybody at all, you don't see that. You don't think about that. And she said she didn't think about her kids. And luckily when she did go to commit suicide, it just didn't happen.   I think you guys, you wanna fan some up, then that's what you do.  But, you know, grandma was a counselor. Yeah, that woman, when that person came in here and you talked to him, you was a counselor. Anytime that people, you've heard people say, I agree. Let me tell you, it was people say, man, you know what, man, I was doing bad that day, man, I was, I was feeling down and you said this and it helped me. I would have to argue with you there. So you're saying people don't say that.  All I'm saying is, you telling me that people don't help people?  When it comes to counseling, it's just different. Not everybody can do what you do, boss. And sit in that seat. Boss talk, E-C-E-O. Boss talk, E-C-E-O. Say it right. Listen, respect all my name. Shout out to Birdman. Okay. Go ahead. Not everyone can do what you do. Now I wouldn't say everybody can hold a conversation and put a mic in front of it. I wouldn't say that because there's levels to what you do.  You've been trained to do what you do and God has blessed you beyond measure. That's the same thing when it comes to counseling. We are a unique skilled individual. Oh, you hear that still. Say that one more time. We are a unique skilled individual. Well, I'm either. And it takes a lot of- I agree with that. And what people don't know is that with counseling, we are our first client. So I lived, my mom died in July. I started grad school in August. And to take myself, sorry. I didn't realize what that was. To take myself, myself through the healing journey so fresh in my grief process, it's like, wow. Like, okay, I can empathize with people who've lost someone or something or I can deal with someone who's struggling with a work-life balance because honestly, prior to starting my counseling degree, I was a queen of self-care. My friends could tell you that every single day, catering to me. Now, I neglected in a time where I'm taking so much and I really need to release and take care of myself, I'm not able to because I go from work to school. But do you have a counselor yourself that you believe in? Of course she do. Yes, periodically. Periodically I can't ask a good, a wise woman tell me, Carrie, I want to say Anderson, but maybe I'm mixing up my counselor. She was the middle school counselor when I started at Berry Middle School in Mesquite. She actually is a sewer, so forgive me, Sarah. But she told me a bit there. Wait a minute, I gotta stop you on that.   Okay, what was that about? She told me that a good therapist won't keep a therapist, and that's... And that's what I've always heard. That was like the most realist thing I've ever heard. So absolutely, I have an amazing counselor who I see and I check in with periodically when things are like, when I know that I'm not okay and I know I need to talk with someone, I need someone to rationalize my thoughts or help me figure things out, because it's amazing how you can help everybody except for yourself. But that's what people do, females, a lot of females do that anyway. But I have a question, and I know you're young in this counseling business, so I'm not sure if you know this, but I want you to see if, imagine if this could be possible. Being a female counselor, and especially if you counsel males going through different things in their life, whatever, and maybe they're single or going through certain traumas or whatever, couldn't it be possible for you to like, because they're laying down their guards, they're being very emotional, couldn't some female counselors actually even fall for their client? Oh, well, it's possible. I've heard stories that has not ever been my case with male, female, same sex. It doesn't matter.  Oh, this story is background, ooh. It's possible. However, there's like some ethical, legal things that go into play. Right, that's what I would think. The timeline that you have to follow, you know, and things of that nature for me, when you see counseling, you know, everything is exposed. So would I ever see myself dating the client? No.  It's cool. Our people, some people are gonna get help through those avenues. But Uncle, listen, Uncle Jody ain't Bobby, ain't Will It Be, cutting Sydney, these people are needed, family is needed. You hear me? Foundational family, mom and daddy in the house together. The divorce rate is at an all-time high, and we're sitting up here acting as if a lot of these things, it's gonna keep you paid. You don't have to worry about it because the way things are, hold on, it's gonna keep you paid, and I'm not saying it's not needed, but we need to start rebuilding our people and the foundations the way it needs to be. We need to chant for family. We need to try to come up with ways to stick things out there for our people in a way to where they can get back to the foundation of building family. And I think that's one of our biggest problems. Agreed. However, in the black community, what I'm realizing in the year 2023. You debunked it when you said, I ever. Is counseling is still taboo, even in the Latinx community. I would say, especially in the Latinx. It's not that taboo. Everybody's talking about counseling, man. But respectfully, even look at your viewpoint, right?  But it's a lot of individuals out there. What I'm saying is the other race has held the key to healing. Excuse me. Processing their emotions to speaking with someone and seeing the benefit of it. The other race, who is the other race? The white race, the white people, the Caucasians, whatever you want to refer to them as.  I am the first in my family. My mama thought counseling was taboo.  What is that? I'm the first in my family to seek professional help. And it is freeing and it is liberating. And yes, God just got, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. No, freeing, she said freeing. Oh, I was about to say it. Freeing? Yes, depending on your employer, I would encourage people to check with their employer and their insurance to see if they offer EAP services, Employee Assistance Program, where you can get up to so many services for free. It's definitely not free. You just have to find a, it is. That's what people can't afford it. Right, and it's expensive, right? Which is why again, it's never been a popular topic in the African American community, because it was a luxury, right? It was a luxury to be able to go to counseling and to seek professional advice or help. So now that black people again are tapping into the counseling industry and it is booming because COVID did expose the fact that mental health is very real and it's on the rise. And we need help. Your pastor can't do it alone, which is why he telling you how to go see somebody, okay? That's what the pastor's saying. Yeah, so you think that's cause the pastor to say, who is pastor? I'm not saying that. Which pastor? Who are you talking about? All of them. They would agree. They said, honey. Who is they? They said, go talk to somebody, help them, help you. I'm gonna be real with you. I enjoy this. The back and forth, the different ways people think, the trueness, because I'm gonna give you truth. I know that a lot of times counseling is a thing where it's pretty much saying, you know what? Mama Nem was wrong for what they did. I get it. But God says the same thing. God says, if any man being Christ, he's a new creature, old things are passed away. Behold, all things become new. It gives you a second chance to go at it. Is that not real? It is real depending on how far you are in your faith journey. Everybody is not there. And like I say, I have been 100% sold out for Jesus and like I said, when I lost my momma, it took a hit to my face. And I'm not saying that I'm not there again. I am, but I could wake up some days and I sighed out Jesus like, really me? Without my momma. So it just, everybody's walk is different. So that's your experience, that's your personal. So I'm the only one who can really figure it out. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying everybody's walk is different. We have to stop thinking, everybody's different. You write about that, but we have to make sure to put it out there in a way to where people can have all type of resources to rely on. We can't just say this is one way and this is the only way. There is all type of resources. But for so long in the black community, are you gonna just let me? No, but if I may, no. But if I may, for so long in the black community, only resource has been religion and it's not working. No, religion won't work. Religion won't work because you're right. Traditional religion does not work. But people need to get rid of that. They have to change the way they're being taught, the way they're thinking. Americanized Christianity is not good. People are over here acting like money is their God. We act like this is not happening. And we call it religion and say, this is what basically our people have been struggling. No, your pastor's been fleecing you.  And he was sliding envelopes under the door. You call that your pastor, that traditional religion? Listen, let's be real. What are you doing? That's not even what the word reads.  So I don't get on with that. So you're gonna tell me that tradition and that religion is something that is real. And our people was, no, we need to get to the true essence of understanding who God is for yourself. Yes. So we can't, I don't go by all that. So I can't just get in that box of how people been misled and such, such, such because they were trying to go by religion. They wasn't reading. Someone was uneducated.  They couldn't tell you where this came from or what a dirty scroll was, what the canosity of the scripture is. They don't know that stuff. But we want to say they live for God. They don't even know how to live for God. They don't know who he is. All I'm saying is everybody's walk is different. You, you're there. Some people are just coming to Christ. Some people are trying to forgive Christ. Some people are trying to move past church hurt. Some people are trying to move past life transgressions. Everybody's walk is different. For those who go out and seek counseling for themselves, good for you. For those of you who build a personal relationship for God, good for you. For those of you who believe in the higher power of meditation or yoga or whatever the case may be, good for you. Everybody is different. As long as you are working towards being a better person, absolutely. I love it. That's exactly right. That's where I'm at with it, right? You just said it. Because there's so many different type of people that's gonna need healing and relief some kind of way. How do we get them there? Counseling is definitely a great way. Probably one of the most thought out ways of the day. Counselors are winning and they should, they're educated. They have went to a school. They're trained. Yeah, they're trained, said again. Unique skilled individuals. There you go. So the unique skilled individuals are the ones that I do commend and they got a tough job. Our religious leaders, our spiritual leaders, they got a tough job. Our Uncle Bob or Benny that's sitting under the tree, he got a tough job too. Because some people might not make it to any of these people that you're talking, we're referring to. But God steps right in and starts to make things happen for them. I mean, he has a way to where when we talk about the old way things used to be, I understand that things are predestined and that we go through things for a reason. The handwriting's on the wall.  So I know that everything's gonna work out because thy will gotta be done. So all of the stuff that happened, it happened. But at the end of the day, God made a way, Rahab the harlot, she was able to help a whore. She was able to help people to get to where they was trying to go. There's always somebody that's a ram in the bush. You understand what I'm saying? God causes who he chooses. I believe you're probably different from any member in your family, right? God calls you to experience something. No, don't do that. Some type of generational wealth. Did you hear that? You know, a level of success. Like you're different. Your mindset is different. God chose you. You don't think people in your family before you wanted things that you wanted or wanted to think the way that you thought. But God didn't call them, he called you. Just like he called me and I'm different from people in my family. So again, that comes with the generation. That comes with times changing, you know? That comes with people just evolving and knowing God on an intimate level or for even those who don't believe in God again, a higher being or if they're eight years or whatever.  God loves you and what you are is not what you're gonna be. Period. Everybody put people in boxes. You understand what I'm saying? But what you are is not what you're gonna be. I'd never seen nobody that was not constantly evolving. Some kind of way. Every day. But we choose to put a person in a certain circumstance. We'll hate somebody for a position that they was in 10 years ago and they ain't even there no more. Because of what they did to me, I don't mess with that, blah, blah, blah. And that person ain't even there no more. Or that person's dead. Well, I found a guy dead the other day that I was accusing of some things and I was like, right.  I said, what? Man, I was still at his throat about something he said in his door that one day. Remember? I was like, I know I, me and him did this and that man gone on the glory. Well, maybe. But that's what I'm saying. We can, we meet people in a place and we keep them there mentally. You know what I'm saying? Conditionally, like we, you know I'm telling you, we keep them there. And that person might not even be there anymore. So there's, it's a lot of avenues and angles when it comes down to life, right? So I, I, I applaud you. I don't want to talk to nobody every day about an issue every single day.  Oh yeah, they do. The counselor got a deal when that's a job. Five days out of the week. Different people. Different people. That's what I'm saying. The counselor, yeah. Do you have some people who go every single day? No. No. Everybody going every day. You know what I was saying. You said exactly what I was saying. You got the little woman power going. But you know what I was saying? I was just saying that you, as a counselor, are dealing with people who can't really pay. Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to be honest with you. Let me say this. Police officers. My partner is some of them police officers. One of them, I remember he had seen three people got killed. He went to all three other homicides or whatever. You know what I'm saying? He's the next thing. You know he's at a rob. The next thing you know he's here. He's there a week or two go by one of my friends. I said, man, you need to get a break. You know what I'm saying? Like you're seeing a lot of stuff. And he's like, oh man, it's cool. Man, I got to make this for more. You know, I got money. I got stuff I got to do. But what I'm telling you is everybody, not just that person, that everybody, they need, I think they need to shift them in and out. I think they need to have three months off or three months on all of them because they're constantly looking at that stuff every day. You understand what I'm saying? Do you ever think about that? Absolutely. Yeah, it's been some breaks that I went home sick thinking I was gonna enjoy the break and my body is broke down. My mind is broke down. So yeah, it's a lot when you're in the helping industry. Like you say, police officers, people in the medical field, God bless them. It's a lot. Man, I think you dope. I'm gonna be honest with you. I gave you a tough time. Oh, boss, y'all one-on-one. Like I do everybody. That's what they want. They wants to hear the rah-rah. They wants to understand how you, how could he say that? How do we think that? How'd she say that? That's what it is. But, and through all of it, I just feel like there's something that everybody can get. Somebody might walk away with something and say, you know what? Man, I needed to hear that. I ain't giving up. I haven't been one guy to tell me, I mean, you know, I didn't like old boy, but man, when you broke it down the way you did, I thought he was okay. I said, okay. Cause that's what this is. It was just a conversation. You have counselors. Some people feel the way you do. Auditory conversations. Yeah, that's what I call it. Yeah. Like just sitting around talking that on the porch. And that's good. That's community to me. Some people need that. Yeah. AKA Black men. Hey, you see what I mean? I can't stand women.  I love Black men.  They love to compete with Black women. We do. Yes, we do. God has to do. Matter of fact, the white men have propped them up. God forgive me. I'm just messing with you. Yeah. No, I was just messing with you. I don't feel like what y'all don't get mad at me.  I might cut that part out. I don't know. I might leave it in. It's really amusing. Yeah. But I thank you for coming on the show. Thank y'all so much for having me. I'm so grateful. It's your first time ever being on the podcast. I'm a podcast. This is the dopest one. I'm so grateful.  He'd know you're going to get lit up. Look, I'm supporting his dream and look at guys. But no, I'm not. Somebody can get help. I'm so grateful. Thank you so much for having me. First and many, y'all. You coming back? We're going to bring them back and let them counsel every so often so I can talk crazy to them. You're going to put her on here with Money Moses. Ooh, that's a tough one. I'm going to tell him, too. We're going to do our on-live counseling session with you and Money Moses. Really? OK. Y'all want to do that? That'll be dope. That'll be dope. Oh, you? Why are you letting him come here? She's like, you're going to make her get scared. So, man, listen, man, thank you so much for coming on the show, man. You know, we love you. Thank you. I love you guys, too. God bless y'all. Many blessings forever, forever to come. It's been another great segment. Of Boss Talk went on.  And we out.