Thank you all for showing up. I am so if we were doing things properly, Tim would be running this, but I'm pushy and I'm willing to tell people, hey, we're about to start. And so I'm kind of the guy. The other thing is I want to make sure that we get the list of people here, which I didn't. We didn't actually fully assign this. So we need to assign four roles here. The facilitator, gatekeeper, scribe, and timekeeper. Who is going to be the facilitator for this? Anyone, anyone? Where did the cards go? They're there. I mean, well, OK, I'll be the facilitator for this one, but that's going to leave the other three here. All right, so there we go. And this is basically what we're doing, what we're hoping to get out of this is to have a charter for the working area for an ongoing activity well past the developer summit. So there's, and what this area is about is the content format working area, which we'll go over here. You'll see there's the content format working area. And this is basically about the data, the format that we store our data in. So this can be not just about WikiText versus some other more structured format, but it can also be about some of the implications for how we structure the data that we back up, the fact that we put it into a database rather than we put it in flat text files, or that sort of thing. So that's really what the area is about. But then there's a whole bunch of questions around that that we could potentially be doing, that we could potentially be talking about. And so that's going to be a goal is to, when we're done, we'll be able to actually have more of a charter for this area to describe this. But before we get into that, one of the things that we want to do is just make sure that we, to give people an opportunity to highlight the RFCs, the sessions in these areas. And so, one of the very, let me see, or do I need to bump up the font on this, don't I? Whoops, that was not smart. Okay, so, and by the way, you should, this link should be available, the link to the etherpad that we're on right now, if you want to go in and cause all sorts of trouble, you can go in and edit what's up on the screen right now. So the things that are already scheduled so that we don't need to belabor these points. So today, right after this meeting, we have separating info boxes and nav boxes from article content. That's a conversation that Scott and Hu are leading tomorrow, or today, tomorrow at 2 p.m. Gosh, I got these a little bit out of order. Tomorrow at 11.30 a.m. is the language converter, and then at 2 p.m. is semantic image styles. So we've got a whole bunch of stuff to talk about there. And then additionally, there's some follow up that we can do from the meeting earlier today about next generation content loading and routing in practice. So section tags for media wiki sections and the balance templates stuff. So does anybody want to say anything more about these areas? Like, for example, Scott, do you just want to briefly touch on these? The section, for sure. I'll give a brief summary, starting, I guess, with the section tag. So the simple description is we'd like better semantic markup for sections. Right now, there's sort of implicit stuff that goes on with heading tags. There are some problems with this because headings in articles are kind of misused. No, alternatively used in lots of interesting ways. So just blindly slapping sections on there tends to break pages. So there's some technical details there. I got the impression that most people just want this to happen and want us to figure out the technical details. So if that's the case, you don't need to sign up. But if you would have urgent discussion stuff that you want to have signed up at the bottom of the etherpad. Balance templates, although templates right now don't need to close their HTML tags. In some templates that's desired, in some templates that's accidental, we'd like to add markup where authors could proactively indicate that their templates should be balanced. And if you do that, we will render them lots faster because when you make an edit to that template, we can just cut out that section of HTML in our cache and replace it with a new version. And we don't have to completely re-render the page. So again, there's lots of interesting technical details there, and if you're interested in discussing that sign up, I'll toss it over to Daniel. I was going to toss it over for multi-content revisions. But why don't you do that at the end? Visual templates. Visual editor doesn't let you actually edit template markup, like the code that you used to implement a template. That's a proposal for doing that. Here, doc, arguments for templates. Some of the things that we'd like to do with templates are hard because you have to take this big chunk of text and stick it inside an argument to a template. So this is one of the reasons, for example, the site template is at a point, and you can't easily mark the section of the article that corresponds to that citation. You just have to stick at the end. If you try to stick all the content that that citation actually refers to, you get these weird wiki text problems with escaping and whatnot. So here, doc, arguments to templates is a way to sort of try to work around that. I think this is the next one is Gabriel's. Do you want to talk about parts like HTML for page views, too? I think it's a bit premature to talk about that, actually. But I wanted to add one thing to the section tags for media wiki sections thing. There's actually an implementation on the task. Please have a look. And the question is basically, how should this behave in edge cases? And there's a couple of options that are described on the task. So please weigh in right there if you have time. I'll say part of the HTML for page views. Part of that is talking about adding more semantic markup to our articles because part of it, in some cases, differs from the PHP markup, mostly in the case of actually adding proper figure tags around things. So that's sort of a long-term plan for there. Just in case anyone's not aware that section tags for media wiki sections, that's about wrapping a section in a section element, the whole section that you would edit on the page in the output would have a section element around it, which means that sections have to be balanced in the HTML tree. OK. So I've been trying to get a conversation going on multi-content revisions. The idea behind this is that for every page, there doesn't necessarily have to be one content stream. But you can have multiple content streams. So you have multiple content objects for each revision. That basically means that you can have wiki text side by side with structured information like media metadata or just a list of categories or maybe a quality assessment of the page as structured data, versioned alongside the wiki text. You don't have to embed anything in the wiki text to have it versioned alongside and rendered in the same place and addressable via the same URL. So that's the basic idea behind multi-content revisions. I think it would be very useful for graphs, maps. Well, image metadata is one of the primary use cases, actually. I think quality assessments is another good use case. Maybe we can have a session about that on the third day. I know if any one of you is interested, just add your name. Just in this etherpad or should we have separate section or etherpad for that? I mean, just put a section at the bottom for uncompressed. OK. We can do that. Right. Just to see what he's talking about here. So there's the add your name right there where somebody is typing right now. OK. So yeah, that is not really about the format of the content in terms of syntax. It's more about how revisions are stored and managed. And also what our conceptual model of revisions is. Yeah. By the way, it looks like there's wonderful healthy participation here. But there is also a number of anonymous editors on this. So please click on the little people icon. And then when you see your name at the top, you can put your name in. OK. So we can talk about any of these RFCs now. So if somebody wants to step up to the microphone and speak about any one of these RFCs, we can speak about it. Or we can jump right in to the charter for the working area. So I don't see anybody lined up at the microphone. So I'm going to assume that if you haven't stepped up to the microphone that you're OK with the moving past the RFCs and talking about the working area. So one of the RFCs, the second to last, is actually kind of a high level overview of, and I think not very relevant to this discussion. So maybe it's worth looking at that. 99088, is that the one you're talking about? Yes. It kind of motivates the need for more structured data and some of the use cases that I think should drive the development of our content structure. So yeah, Tim, maybe you can speak a little bit about it. Yeah, so what this area is about is partly about Wikitext, about the future of Wikitext, and about semantic data storage. And what things should be semantic and how we should store that, how we should sort of, how we can support editing in a wider variety of ways. We've got a whole lot of new applications for Wikitext, and we're going to be talking about some of those. So some of the questions are whether we should put all of the content into JSON blobs inside tags and inside Wikitext. It seems inelegant to do that, and yet that seems to be standard practice at the moment. If you split it out, where should it be split out to? Should we have a single timeline of a history of an article or should it be branched? Should, how is a revision represented in storage? Daniel's ideas of having multiple content blobs associated with each revision aims to sort of abstract that a bit. Yeah, so that's kind of where we're heading with this working area. I don't know if I think I'm... Yeah, I guess maybe, Gabriel, maybe you can say a few more words about the, like, do you see the 99088 as kind of a charter for this area or do you see it as more specific? But I think it's a part of the things that I hope to get out of content format working group. It might not cover everything, but I think a part of it could possibly. So a lot of the things that Tim mentioned, I think, also, there's a lot of overlap. And what are the big sort of contentious questions in this particular, like, I mean, there's obviously some aspects of this that everybody agrees on. What are the things that are a matter of debate for debate? Well, I think there's a lot of details to be solved, like there's concrete use cases that people have right now to identify earlier. It was brought up identify info boxes, NAF boxes, sections. There's added use cases that don't have a solution yet, back unbalanced templates. Performance, Parsuite, for example, the Parsuite team would like to have incremental parsing where they don't reparse the entire page every time something minor was touched. So there's a whole gamut of things, but most of them are mostly technical problems, I guess. The contentious part is more where, I think, in the longer-term trajectory. Like, if you follow this step by step by solving concrete problems, where do we eventually end up? And what are the implications of that? Yeah, I think on the longer term, it starts to get more contentious. There's not really a consensus on a lot of big topics. Like, for example, what's the future of Wikitext? Is Wikitext a legacy format, or is Wikitext going to be a thing going forward? Which is pretty fundamental. Yeah, so I kind of think that we need an edit source button sort of going forward.  And the question is, what do you want to see when you click edit source? Well, probably not HTML, probably not raw HTML as presented to the user, anyway. So, yeah, I'm sort of of the opinion that Wikitext should stay around in some form, I guess. Yeah, one thing that I would like to say in this context is, yeah, maybe, like Gabriel said, in some areas there's no real agreement where we are really headed. So, maybe it's best if we discuss our conceptual ideas, the conceptual model of what we actually mean by content, what is content, right? And also, what is a revision? What is transclusion? It seems obvious on the first look, but the edge cases get increasingly interesting. I mean, one very interesting thing, of course, is how does transclusion mix with revisions, right? Wouldn't it be cool if we could just go back to some revision and look at it and see it as it was, kind of like an away-back machine. But that would kind of imply that if someone edits a template that is visible in the current revision, the current revision wouldn't change, right? We freeze it. So, how do these two things, these two competing wishes, actually, how do they combine? So, what's our idea for that? How should this work? That, of course, plays into caching, into change propagation, into how APIs are structured. So, this is a really interesting, interesting topic with lots of implications. Yeah, and the user probably expects to see the article as it was when they go back in time in the history, right? That's probably the user's expectation. Yeah, if you go to the history of the main page, that's not a very satisfying experience right now, is it? When you are having that, it's sort of, we... When everybody comes to speak, can you introduce yourself with the microphone? Oh, yes, please. Rob Lamper, by the way, Rob Lamper. Yes, I'm Joseph Alamondu, working in the analytics team. One thought I have around the content per se is that there are very different areas of usage of content from performance, as said, semantics, the representation, et cetera, and that I would really separate the concerns and maybe the projects around the various aspects of each of them, because some of them might be overlapping, some of them might not, and the goals for each of them might actually be fairly different, I think. Depending on... If you want to increase performance, the changes you might want to do might not be completely overlapping, but if you want to increase semantic interpretation over some bits of the content. I'm sorry, what was the second thing you said? You might not be completely overlapping goals if you want to increase performance, as if you want to have better semantic over the content. Ah, the session. Example. Semantic storage and performance are not necessarily mutually exclusive, since currently having everything in templates which are interpreted by lower modules, which is not very... The performance of that is really challenging, actually. On Wikipedia it's not so bad, really, but if you look at Wixionary, which is every page on Wixionary is just a big mass of templates, right? And it's trying to express semantic data, which is... A dictionary is sort of the most obvious use case of semantic data, right? SGML sort of came out of the Oxford Dictionary project. We should really be doing something better there. Yeah, to the performance point, we already separate semantic data from the main content. So for example, partially it has very rich metadata that it uses to make the conversion back to Wikitext as loss... Well, as accurate as possible, and that is already stored separately, and in the next step we will store other semantic information about template parameters and so on in a separate format as well. And we'll have IDs to reference back and forth, basically. So it is possible to kind of satisfy both, but it is definitely something we have to think about and keep in mind while we design the semantic stuff so we don't overload and bloat the main content. Okay, it's a little quiet. So I thought I'd read a little bit from a comment here where I threw some bombs and see if that makes people discuss this with more passion. So here's my... Someone edited a version of this. So it's been 20 or so years since Wikitext was invented, and it's off the modern mainstream. If you look at new programming language projects, they tend to use Markdown or some other thing like that. Even Lula, which we use for our template engine, is not on the modern mainstream. And so we force all our users to climb these barriers to entry before they can contribute to learn all these new things which they don't use in any other projects. So here's two ways to re-sync with modern practice, which hopefully will be somewhat... Well, anyway. So first, HTML-only wikis. So some of the motivation here in restructuring core and rethinking about what an article means is to decouple Wikitext from MediaWiki so that we have content in MediaWiki which could be in a variety of different formats. Info boxes are not best expressed in Wikitext. Info boxes are best expressed in some other form, which is more natural to them. And maybe even articles are not necessarily best expressed in Wikitext. The idea is long-term for a new wiki starting up. They could have a visual editor-only experience and have an HTML-only wiki where all the content is natively stored in HTML. So not everyone will want this, but the idea is if we start thinking about untangling the many ways that Wikitext is in core, we can start thinking about new ways. Maybe someone's going to come up with a Markdown wiki. Maybe that's the way that people want to do it. Right now we don't have that ability to use Wikitext. Similarly, we tied to Lua in Scribunto. Some of the mechanism for allowing multiple programming languages is there, but it's not really there. When we chose Lua over JavaScript, it was based on a snapshot of JavaScript implementations at that point, which isn't relevant anymore. We could add JavaScript support to Scribunto. Again, not everyone will use that. Maybe it won't ever get turned on in English Wikipedia, but we could start broadening our mind about what an article or what a template is. I've got a couple more suggestions which aren't relevant to this particular session. The other one is Polygot Wikimedia. One of our big selling points and the thing that I fell in love with with the project was that we supported all the world's languages. Unfortunately, that's not really the case anymore. Development on language-specific features has pretty much stalled. There are limitations to language converter, which haven't been fixed. The visual editor doesn't support it at all. Even the visual editor doesn't support it at all. If we need to take a step back and think about what our language support really means, I'd like to challenge us to reimagine what, if we're going to make big steps, really embracing multilingual content in our Wiki's means. One example, fine-grained content tagging, which WikiTicks doesn't let you do, but in HTML, for example, I can associate an ID with every tag to effectively every paragraph of the thing. Into something else, I can track that over time and remember that this is the translation of that paragraph, and if someone else makes changes elsewhere, I'm not losing the information about what that translation was. I'd love to see an easily accessible split-screen view like mainstreaming content translation. Just because I'm editing on English Wikipedia doesn't mean I'm not also fluent in Spanish. I'd like to be able to look at the Spanish version of the article, with the English version, and see if there's stuff that I can contribute both ways. Right now, we've got a silo for each individual Wiki, and the content is not shared. Also, same thing for keeping translated sections up to date. This goes for that fine-grained thing. If I grabbed a paragraph from the Spanish version of an article on a city in Spain, and that was later edited, I'd like as an editor to be able to be notified of that, update my translation and things like that. And finally, a sort of a process to migrate. There's a lot of stuff language converter does, which content translation doesn't do right now. There's a whole separate section for this, so I'm not going to really get into it, but we need to start thinking about can we embrace this better and integrate it into our model of what our content is. So we think of our content as not just a fixed set of Wiki text for an article, but perhaps a collection of resources in Infobox. Some mapping between translated versions of this article, a layout information, which again, layout of figures is not best expressed in Wiki text, and really take some steps forward into sort of reimagining what our content could look like. So hopefully that gives people things to yell at me about. Hi. I'm Mauro Trubots, and I have some comments on the development on the format. I think we should ask ourselves who will understand the new format that we are going to develop, because I think for example, we could come up with some semantic versioning for templates and so on and so forth, but would a normal user understand it, and would the standard Wikipedia editor be able to interact with this format, especially with regard to the visual editor where we want to make it easier for users to use this format? For example, when Masamal was invented in 1998, there was a section about content of Masamal where they built up a 200 page manual how to describe the content of the mathematics, and the result was that they had really a beautiful format, but it was somehow too hard for mathematicians to understand, and so we need to make sure that that's a new content format what we will develop is understandable for the final users. I think it's important to separate the user interface, like how do users interact with this content from the format we store things in, or the format we use to process things, because there are very different requirements for those two parts. Right now we use Wikitext for both, it's about primary storage format, but it's also a user interface, and it's okay, but not great on both of those tasks, and most of the discussions we've had recently about more semantic content and interaction that has been in the past with HTML, there is actually a DOM spec for the first time that spells out a link is going to be marked up like this using RDFA. An image exposes all its parameters like this, basically all the things you need to edit and extract semantic information are already specified in there. It's not by no means perfect, but it is used by visual editor and increasingly post-processing, other post-processing tools that leverage all the semantic information that is already in there. So, I think it's important, I'm not sure if there's actually a proposal to have a completely separate format from that, or to basically keep involving that to better address our use cases. I think most of the discussion is actually about this evolving part, rather than finding something completely new. So, other kind of complaint regarding the current VK text as a way to represent the infobox is that, currently I think my name is Jiang, and I'm from Google, and so currently I feel or we feel that most of the time Wikipedia focus on the interaction between human beings and the Wikipedia software where all the content are kind of almost in free text, although with some key value pair structure most of the time, if we try to write some program pass the key value pairs, we are actually facing some free text to give you an example maybe you can try to take a look at two Wikipedia page one is for Google, one is for Microsoft. In the infobox there are key called products but the value are represented totally different from each other and if we really want to write program ask machine to pass the values it's really very, very painful. So from the perspective that we want to make machine to really understand, read the content we do need a uniform format to organize the content and I think Wikipedia data is one of the way, but it's still far away from organize all the different format from the Wikipedia so if we are really looking for the long term perfect solution we do need to think about the underlying format should be also friendly to machine. Can I just ask what is your interest in semantic markup, are you looking at it from a point of view of semantic search or improving rankings or is it for richer search result pages with semantic data right on the page? Before we are talking about ranking the fancy stuff, the first step very, very basic step is to do the semantic extraction. So another example we keep using is that in the Wikitext we have both place and both date are separate key value pairs but when we look at the HTML these two key value pairs are rendered into one label and value so it's really hard for anyone to write a program passing both date and both place so we do need to consider how to make the content at fine-grained granularity and also make it easy for a program to read and to understand. Until we have all these basic semantic paths out we can talk about other stuff like knowledge inference and other stuff. In this vein I think the main thing is making things easier to edit for people making it easier to read for machines that's kind of like the two problems we have Wikipedia is so hard to edit for humans and it's so hard to read for machines the other way around it kind of works If we have new formats that have more semantics we should definitely avoid inventing new complex syntax for human interaction I think we have done this once and once is probably enough we might come up with very simple things like how to define gadgets or lists of categories or whatever in a structured way but I don't think we want to invent yet another Markov language. I am Jack Taylor I wanted to talk a bit about this idea of putting JavaScript in Scribonto so you talked about the idea of Headscom So we're talking about making things standardized and JavaScript is the standard language and I agree with that but I think we might be targeting the wrong people a lot of the time we see people editing templates. The reason they're editing them is because they want to, they're editing articles and they find that something's not rendered the way they want and so they go okay I've got to edit this template What I saw a lot when we had the change to Lua is that people were seeing these templates in Lua and they no longer knew what they were doing so there's one user in particular, Red Rose 64 whenever he sees Lua or she I'm not sure the reaction is well this is no longer in the realm of human comprehension I give up so if we wanted to add JavaScript to that then it would add even more complexity for people who are editors and they just want to write a template or edit a template so we've got to think how all these languages play together I think if you if you can read JavaScript fairly easily then you can probably read Lua without a huge amount of effort I learned JavaScript after I learned Lua a huge leap JavaScript was harder than Lua I think because there's a lot of asynchronous stuff Lua in Scriban too there is a synchronicity in Lua itself but in Scriban too there's not it's just everything is done one step at a time they're pretty similar languages So perhaps you should either take a look at that RFC or sign up in the Strupple because that actually presents a strawman implementation which maybe will make you hit it more but you know at least you can discuss a concrete thing On the point of semantics that Jung brought up I think one we can see it as an evolution I think we started all with templates that are very universal and that freely mix presentational things with semantic information so you have an age you have a color, you have whatever and they don't necessarily agree so every template has its own parameter structure and they are not very uniform across domains necessarily which creates the trouble for you it also creates trouble for us when we want to format things differently or select certain information or a subset for mobile for example if you only want to show a couple the most important things on mobile but the full info box with everything on desktop then we have to know what the most important things are and have to distinguish it from green and red and whatever but the problems are very similar and what we've been talking about or considering is having identifying some of these really common news cases like info boxes and providing basically a canned solution for those that is more like a component and has a defined interface but there's always a connection between flexibility that we give to users and that has enabled all this growth and on the other hand the control that we have in software to reformat things and to extract the meaning and so on so I think that tangent is not going to go away but I could see I think it's very likely that we're going to move towards more optimized solution for specific use cases like info boxes a good example for that is actually Wikia who have already done the leap in that realm where they have complete control over the formatting of info boxes and only ask the users to supply the actual data and that way they have their motivation is primarily controlled for mobile versus desktop but they have worked with the community a lot in the law of support for this approach because it removes work for editors Is there somebody who can hand off scribe efforts too? Great, thanks I think I totally understand what you said that info box is kind of a very hectic almost to everyone and so I think I'm mostly talking about wiki text especially talking about wiki text versus long term perfect solution currently the info box are just described as one example that wiki text handle too complex to handle for the info box part we also met with other difficulties when handling wiki text to give you another example is that there are lots of special templates for example the first title so such kind of stuff is used to manipulate the content in a special way for example iPhone the I is become lowercase title C sharp the language is used correct title with several special parameters all these things are kind of point of view abuse of template to achieve special purpose well if I design the things from scratch I would try to separate these functionalities from the language from the markup language itself other examples like some redirect labels and category labels so all this stuff I think from program engineer point of view we should try to separate these functionalities into different modules different people or different use cases may want different functionalities we should not hook all of them into wiki text which can not a good thing for anyone I think I get the sense that you are looking for more domain semantics I mean there are two kinds of semantics one is semantics of wiki text something is a template, something is a link image but from what you are talking I am getting the sense you are looking for semantics that are about what a particular template means as opposed to that it is just a template and that is not something we have that information programmatically by just looking at a template name that is not information that is available in wiki text representation even so am I interpreting you right I am trying to say that if we reconsider about all these things maybe we should not use one technology called wiki text to implement all these stuff maybe we have different functionalities for example if we want to allow user to specify the canonical title for iPhone we should give them an input box explicitly and then ask them to input that instead of using a lowercase title template to implement similar things that is a very good example for your use case for the multi content revisions because we need to store that somewhere and it should not be in wiki text but it should show up in the history so that is a good example for that I just wanted to circle back real quick and just ask a question about at the beginning of the session there was kind of this low level and high level approach where we are going to think about both the concrete use cases we are trying to solve for now and then maybe try to project where those might end us up and try to figure out which tradeoffs are best I was wondering if we could get a quick recap I am just losing track of what the use cases are we are trying to maybe problem solve and what are the tradeoffs we might be needing to compromise on at this point well I can um like what I am doing now and then leave it to Tim or whoever else wants to step in to help guide us to what we should be doing what I am doing now is trying to capture many of the questions that we can eventually turn into more of a charter for this working area and we can decide like one of the things we could do with large list of questions maybe now we can prioritize this list of questions and that would be an exercise after this session or whatever once we have all of the questions down but I am pretty flexible in terms of how we use this time yeah Tim do you have any further thoughts yeah well about the use cases that we are talking about um part of the use cases that are driving this are um partly things that are around already but are implemented in a kind of hackish non-machine readable way like info boxes being the number one example now we can possibly integrate info boxes with wiki data that might be a nice thing to do um in wikipedia also there is things like climate data tables data tables of population over time there is in wikipedia we have maps that are colored by some property like maps of GDP per population around the world Yuri has been doing a whole lot of work on that on generic sort of semantic information being fed into an image into a graph image which is just displayed for the user maybe you can then animate that that would be really nice then how do you edit that well okay that's not an easy thing to solve and that's one example of a use case you know also here we have language converter which is involves its own special variant of wiki text to annotate differences between we have like close pair translations like simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese and they use these special markup to annotate the differences where the machine doesn't correctly translate between them um yeah so uh and um yeah there's also mobile friendliness um that's probably a big part of where we're going with this um for example images at the moment in wiki text are specified by the number of pixels in width and whether they float to the left or right um you know the default well pretty much most images on wikipedia float to the right and have a width of 300 pixels or something which is not really appropriate for mobile where anything over 200 pixel width or so may as well just fill up the whole screen and not be floating at all um so um yeah I guess that comes under the heading of responsive layout um currently we don't allow users to specify style sheets except on a whole site level we have like a whole the whole of the english wikipedia has a style sheet which administrators can have it um but in articles themselves you can only edit style attributes which is uh really not nice way to do it especially uh it hard to edit and makes the html very large um yeah so those are some of the use cases that we're solving thanks as a timekeeper um I think there are about 30 minutes left my question is um as to do with attention I suppose between uh the granularity of wiki text and that usefulness for uh translation for machine reading um and uh perhaps the um editability of um wikipedia media wiki wiki data and this may be a kind of out of the box question but um would it be possible to uh reduce um templates or code templates such that every part of them um was a q item in wiki data so that the granularity in certain ways for some media wiki interfaces or use cases became actual q item um references such that the interlinguality of wiki data is 300 languages would be potentially uh there as well and the granularity would be really fine I mean a q item could refer to even a letter or um a pronunciation of a letter is that patently absurd or is there something workable in that kernel for granularity for both machine learning uh reading and also um the potential for editability uh can you explain again what exactly should map to q items like template titles or parameters or what exactly many aspects of templates um could you make the q item a basic unit for um some aspects of media wiki development to get the granularity for uh human editors but also machine learning so just as a straw man for that that that t11445 for visual templates thing maybe I I mis-titled that but that has a straw man implementation where one of the parameters to a template is just a wiki data query right so most of the parameters from that template come from wiki data it can be shared among all sorts of wikis right yeah well maybe one of the parameters is a query in wiki data which gives you the proper name for that item right I yeah I anyway I I I mean I am interested in your question that's my best approach at it um I don't think it's a complete solution but I'd love to talk to people more about that I'm a follow up just you know for content translation for the accuracy of um sort of translation beyond the current machine learning um 50% or so translation sentences aren't complete in probably media wiki content translation they're not complete in google translator um granularizing to the q item level um as a way of conceiving this problem I don't think I'm expressing this in coding language would be something I'd be interested in yeah I'm probably going to talk past you but another benefit to fine grain tagging up translations in articles is that we can then use that to train the translation engine so modern translation engines work best when they've got lots of data so if we can give them all revisions of all articles and everything that's ever been translated as input will have a translation engine which gets better by itself um we can't really do that right now because we don't have that fine grain correspondence that this was a translation of this yeah there's some issues with that but so by the way I'm uh I want to reserve the last five minutes to talk about next steps but um I believe you're next and or you next okay so either way whichever ones whichever you want to go first hi I'm Yanan from google I want to discuss with everybody the gap between human friendly and machine friendly as we know um when Wikipedia appears it is designed for people to contribute their knowledge to the Wikipedia so talking about human different people have different understanding even if we give them a standard of how we get text should be as time goes by there are many many useful contents on Wikipedia already and now we want to get some semantics some machine friendly knowledge from the Wikipedia contents so for our developers there is a pinpoint which is that when people express their knowledge in different format different ways we have to translate them into a uniform unified form this is really difficult because there are no unified ways for many cases we have to do them one by one case by case so I'm thinking is there a way that we can do this together I mean that if we do this separately we have to translate the the human the human knowledge to machine knowledge one by one but I think as the machine needs to precise the uniform data maybe we can share our result of the unified unified content that's my point I want to know everybody's ongoing effort about this sorry for cutting in front again there was an idea that came up during a conversation a couple of days ago that was basically having a natural language editor that kind of acts like an IDE in that it would make auto suggestions for work like auto completion and it would let you pick a meaning for the word you just entered or for the phrase for nouns we could already do that with wiki data but for other parts of a sentence structure maybe for function words well there are just limited numbers so if they're ambiguous you can also let people select once we have a machine readable dictionary we can do it for more things people would actually while typing in a sentence actually annotate that sentence with the meanings that would be an extremely useful resource I think both for direct translation and interpretation and machine readability as well as for training machine translation just an idea that came up I think it was Jan who mentioned it I'm not sure I think Tim's use case of data tables is also very relevant because for that we want to make it easier to edit this crazy transformations like date converted to age and so on we would actually need to have the original semantics to make it easier to edit because we want to ideally let people click in the table and change the birthday rather than the age I guess we still need the editor for a long term for a long time maybe for the translation to human knowledge to machine knowledge the translation may need to take a few years I guess what's your opinion yeah existing content definitely what we first would need to provide some structure to to address these use cases in a more convenient way that both helps editors so they're incentivized to actually use it and are happy to use it so we don't set it up as something the semantics people want to do and on the other hand also captures the semantics so we can make editing easy and extraction easy okay thank you we just mentioned mobile friendliness I just wanted to bring up a couple of use cases with that explicitly and also another use case that I don't think has been mentioned yet but has been brought up in a couple of different product discussions in the reading team just for mobile I think whatever content format we need just needs to be in line for page composition in general a lot of the workarounds that we've implemented to come up with the mobile presentation at least in the IOS and for the most part Android apps as well is rearranging stuff on the page being able to get specific image resolutions that we need for that specific device that's requesting the page and of course being able to support cashability but the concern that was brought up at the very beginning of the talk was being able to go back and see a specific revision with all of its various parts at their snapshot revision and also being able to get the most recent version of the retranscluded article after a specific component has changed seems like that needs to be solved in order for us to have these composable components the other use case that was mentioned from a product standpoint is being able to highlight and comment on specific ranges of like text actually within the article and how the complication that therein arises is being able to map that across revisions and if we had more granular section components we would only need to validate the selection ranges for a specific revision if that section had changed So do we have strawmen that we're looking to propose what are the next steps here? I think we have a lot of interesting ideas so maybe we're coming to the end of the session and I can talk about what the next steps are so I think there's a whole bunch of ideas here that are basically I tried my best to capture them in question form and then the more detailed minutes you can go and read like what people said I think the next thing is to take this sort of boiled down version of questions and decide which are the important questions which ones aren't but that's something we can do after this session I think because I suspect we're not going to get it done in the next five minutes One thing I'd like to add though is to think about how Wikipedia content might be viewed and edited from human interface devices aren't text-based that are voice-based or otherwise non-existent so how do we decouple the presentation layer from essentially the storage layer to some extent the bulk of these issues are because you're storing a document and it's coupled with presentations specific things logic specific things when in reality it's more structured than it should be decoupling some of that might be the way forward to future-proofing different form factors even in languages and other characteristics as well I'll even go further than that currently our encyclopedia is pretty much text only we have some pictures, we have very little media what if the article on the moon included a video walkthrough of the moon or something VR environment of the moon how can we incorporate the different types of content we might want in the future into an article is an article just remixing in my video walkthrough the first paragraph of the article there's a section of my video that corresponds to it can I express that correspondence can I watch halfway through the video and then I've got to get on the bus or something like we don't really have any way to express a true multimedia encyclopedia we just have ways of annotating text which by the way Yuri has a proposal vision for Wikipedia he did a lightning talk on it a little bit ago that's I think that gets to that point that Scott's making and it goes both ways too there's not just embedding the VR contents embedding the knowledge within an article into a VR scene think of a document an article is essentially a giant data structure with components that are metadata that are in there for some reason components that are data and components that are presentation specific if you think about this as something that could be transformed and decoupled from the presentation layer entirely that could be the most beneficial way to look forward I think a lot of this is already underway and there's concrete use cases that actually inform the designs and I think that's a good way to develop this rather than try to come up with a brand new grant design that tries to cover it all I think it's really healthy to iteratively improve the spec at the markup that is needed try to extract semantic information about the use cases so I don't really think that this committee or working group or whatever should come up with one grant plan I think it's good to focus on the concrete use cases that we have right now with a night towards the longer term direction but I think there's very concrete things to be solved right now I wanted to elaborate on one of the ideas that have been presented revolve around being able to annotate sentences and paragraphs so this revolves around finding the revision that introduced the sentence finding the revision history of a particular paragraph being able to associate multimedia with particular sentences and sections all of that all that sort of requires a structure that is richer than the typical text that we right now in wiki text and I think a lot of the pushback from introducing such a structure is because how this would affect editors of wiki text and so one idea that might be interesting to throw around here is what if our wiki text editing would be abstracted similar to how visual editors abstract it where you don't really see directly what you're editing like basically what you want is a visual editor that shows your wiki text and just like with wiki text there are attributes and wrapper elements that you're not seeing that keep track of this for you so it would basically mean that there would be wraps around your paragraphs that you don't see when you're editing the wiki text so before we go on we're just about to run out of time here so I think we can do now so I think one of the actions out of this is not we've got a good list of questions here we've had a great conversation today I think the next steps are to take the list of questions flesh this out see if there's a proposal see which ones are the most important most urgent for us to solve now versus which ones like maybe are a little more abstract and are more down the road and there might be some that we're not even that we didn't even touch on in this list I'm not sure like so brainstorming more on what if this list is complete and coming up with the prioritized yeah this is the question we should focus on now and this is the one we should focus on three months or six months or whatever from now but does that make sense as the next step okay great well I think this is a wonderful conversation and obviously it's going to matter the follow up is really going to matter here but yeah I think thank you everyone for participating this has been great yes and by all means like as we've been talking about many of these things some of them already have sessions some of them don't have sessions yet but check the top of the top of the etherpad so the question is whether or not we should move the sign up stuff to the top I think we can move it wherever as soon as yeah let's just make sure we don't somebody grab a copy of this before it gets completely mulled but yes alright thank you very much I think we're out of I think this is the end of the time that we're allotted right oh it does say 10 more minutes I didn't mean to rush everybody out so yeah but you get 10 free minutes back if you want to back so what do you all think anybody else have anything else to say yeah I want to ask the question so is it fairly clear that we would that the something that needs to happen is to move to a richer format to store like I don't know RDFA HTML or something like that or is that not clear because that's something that's not clear in my mind besides having wiki text as the representation of the source like visually for editing the storage is it clear that the storage needs to go in that direction I'd say it's not entirely clear you could store all these annotations as character ranges on the wiki text out of band it's not clear that you'd want to do that so it's differentiating like the storage and the source content for it is that something clear? so we have some experiments like flow stores HTML native and when you edit wiki text in flow it gets translated behind your back so I think we're certainly in favor of more experiments of that I think the really interesting thing about Parzoid is not necessarily HTML representation which is all great and all that is one trick translation between formats and so I think we could do more experiments of that do annotations as character ranges of wiki text and preserve them behind the scenes so you're not aware those are there so I think we could do more stuff like that I don't think it's clear I don't know a better representation yet to express this naturally yeah you can imagine it but I'm open to suggestions and by the way the one thing that I do want to weigh in with at some point I don't want to cut if you have some comment to make here you can the other thing is also talking a little bit about the distinction between the content format area that we're talking about now and the content access and apis area which is the session that Gabriel you're leading tomorrow is that right the the 1130 okay yeah so there's the so those are two different areas both of which I hope persist beyond this developer summit the idea with the format is talking about like how what is the thing that you're editing how to address that and then the content access in apis is about like what do we transform that data into what layers do we put around the data to make it to achieve some of our other a lot of our other goals that we have as a concrete example section tags their sections of the page are currently there's a separate api for both loading and storing separate sections that are not represented in the back end we store the entire article together so there can be some mismatch maybe we should change the back end to store sections separately in the future but we don't have to decide both of those at the same time and by the way there's a ton of overlap between these two areas that's definitely was a little bit controversial creating these as separate areas but that's what we're trying to do now is to basically treat those as overlapping like just acknowledging that no division is going to be perfect let's talk about sometimes we'll talk about both of them together sometimes with section tags for example the two are just going to get intermixed there are going to be other cases where we don't have to talk about the format we can just talk about the infrastructure thanks for this fascinating session on content format is there a history or a space for media wiki test projects for a kind of Google X laboratory and in that regard I'm curious whether there might be a way to explore some of these interlingual questions in terms of various ways of sort of making language data more granular a moonwalk scenario even in a kind of online 3D virtual world media wiki format as just one example and I'm just sort of throwing that out there I'm not sure if this is the space to explore that but both wiki media or media wiki X projects as well as content format otherwise construed than wiki text perhaps in a 3D virtual world are my two questions the existing mechanisms we've got labs which is a general purpose playground to sort of play with our data and we have separate wiki projects you can imagine wiki source for example as being a particular example of what's the markup we need for this particular content and I think there's a video project that's new, fairly new too to explore video content so that's traditionally how it's done in the previous client-driven API session I mentioned that one of the reasons I was excited about that was the idea that you could do new UI experiments as well I think the question is good I mean I'd be interested in finding better ways to sort of allow experiments yeah labs is just our our virtual machine provider we provide free virtual machines for wiki media developers and under that we've got a thing called tool labs where we provide a replicated MySQL database which has all of the articles from wikipedia so you can access that you can easily build overlays on top of wikipedia in tool labs and as far as the areas go I mean this is probably the best area but once again this is a great example of where it's not necessarily clear where one area begins and another one ends in some of the one other possible answer that question is the software engineering area where we're just talking about how we're putting it together more than we're and you know looking at it from more of a sort of computer science lens then from then basically from the more common that might be appropriate for the sort of google A B testing stuff where some of their experiments they sort of transparently redirect half their users to one version of a site and half the versions to another so if you're doing like really fine-grained experiments like that and you need to redirect to a site and then you can go when they hit the URL that's that working area right? Yeah so yeah I mean it's an interesting concept I wanted to ask about if there's been any thoughts represented here about native apps and the kind of semantic content because it's all pretty focused on the web but these platforms have a lot of users and use cases that make it too much to the back and makes them those platforms unable to represent content like more richer media content that we would like to show to Yeah I think the long-term solution is to come up with better ways to define the core media wiki experience so it can contain a lot of these other pieces I don't think we have good answers for that but that's what the software engineering thing is about is our core software what you need to do stuff I think the component conversation that we had earlier also is very relevant to that because it's also partly about formatting media differently on different devices and having all the information in there to support that To me the software engineering discussion is going to be mainly about how to implement these things if you want to have a conversation about what the concepts are so what wiki is, what revisions are, what content is this session here and this working area here is probably the best venue Yeah Yeah Oh Hi, sorry It's Jack Taylor again I was I really like the idea of making wiki text more semantic and separating the content from the presentation I think this is going to be maybe very hard to do a lot of time it's not just templates that we have putting this content in articles the actual tables and things are right there in the wiki text itself so would we be able to make this transparent to editors or would we try and get people to change the actual wiki text or to something else that makes it easier to make the content semantic and how would we approach that would we ask them to do it gradually or all at once or how would we go about doing that Really quickly Andrew Green from Fundraising Tech I don't know if this was mentioned before to concentrate fully but just to put this on the table if it hasn't been mentioned yet as something for a long-term research area if we're talking about semantic structure data as one of the formats in which content for articles is stored is there I think we should think about natural language generation so not just creating tables very schematic or formal structures for people to read on the basis of structured data but actual pros and I want to also Sorry what? Yeah for example for wikis which don't have a large article on a topic but a large amount of structured data maybe some of that could be expressed in pros you know I heard questions about this topic maybe from colleagues here from Google I think understood so I want to ask maybe afterwards we could talk to hear what kind of projects concretely they're interested in and maybe if other entities are looking at other corporations other people are looking at how to structure data or get structured data from wiki projects how could they also contribute back so maybe Google might be working on natural language generation based on structured data which is a huge project how can that is that an open project is that something that we could also integrate with in open free content and free software kind of way Thank you very much sorry I just wanted to quickly mention We've only got 20 minutes for our coffee Alright so 20 minutes and then the next one in this is about the wikimedia Yes we designated the parallel session as a content format breakout session Alright thank you


Christians have been admonished to embrace the life of forgiveness and love towards one another. This is in commemoration of the sacrifice Jesus Christ made on the cross for humanity. Plus, even his correspondent Emmanuel Olubo Boku reports that there was also a procession showcasing the passion of Christ. Parishionnaires guard for usual service on a day like this. There is a reflection of the cross which entails the seven last words of Christ before his death. The presiding priest admonishes all to emulate Christ's virtues, even at the point of death which includes forgiveness and love. Even as he was wrongfully accused, convicted and tortured, Jesus asked God to grant mercy unto his executors. As they go from moon, we need to seek forgiveness. Think about how forgiveness could fill your heart and help you move forward. The station of the cross which begins from the first fold that Jesus had while carrying the cross is displayed. Speaking on the essence of the day, the parish priest, Father Francis E.K., notes that Christ's death is to remind all of his selflessness towards mankind. My message to people is that in suffering, we must continue to stand by God, even Jesus in the face of suffering. As man, he wished that the cross could pass over him. But again, he said not his will, but the will of his Father. In the cross, there is salvation. As we say, in crochet, salutes. So whatever we are going through in life, whatever difficulty we are going through in life, let us not see all the difficulties as a terrible end. Some difficulties yield a better fruit. Parishionnaires also add these to say. The only way for you to make heaven is for you to obey the teachings of God, follow the teachings of Christ and above all, walk in this vineyard. What I want to do in return is that I'm begging him for the grace so that I live out the life of love he lives, to love others like the way he loves, to be able to forgive and to make sure there is love, peace and unity. As Christians were supposed to take today very seriously, think about the sufferings of Christ, the life he lived on earth. We should imbibe all that he did and taught us, live a good life and as much as possible, as human beings were not perfect, but live by the commandments which he gave us. The many ears bedeviling the world may have set people against each order. Here in Nigeria, as the next administration prepares to step in, citizens are urged to be patient with one another and make things right for the sake of humanity. In my world, all the booboom plus the news.


What's going on, everyone? Sam here with Leighton Sports Guard, Drippin' 22, Canadian Flawless Football Hobby 2 box, full case break, number 22. Pick your team stuff. Read off the list of our names and our teams. Adam K., with the Bengals, Lions, and Colts. Alex C. Rams, Alvin S., Chief Saints, Andrew N., with the Vikings, Anthony G. Dolphins, Charles K., Commanders, Edward P., Raiders, Eric W. Steelers, Gregory J., Cardinals, Jason H. Balkans, Jeff M., Ravens, Panthers, Browns, Jags, and Patriots. G. Chen, with the Packers, John K., Broncos, Jordan B., Texans, Kurt W., Bears, Michael M., Giants, Nicholas O., Seahawks, Titans, Paul L., Jets, Phillip G., Cowboys, Sean M. Bills, Thomas J., Niners, Tony F., with the Chargers, and Van L. Eagles, in Bucks. So good luck here, everybody. Let's do it. Mark, thank you. Picking up a 10 case or spot.   I'm like, wow, this could be a legitimate team. We got the Colts next week, and I knew as soon as Anthony Richardson wasn't playing, we were playing against the guy who had NFL experience. I'm like, there's no shot. We win this. This is gonna be our bad game we lose this year. And then we'll lose like a stupid, we'll lose like the Rams late in the season to where like, well, we'll lose the game we need to win always, dude. I thought it'd be Tennessee. Yeah, it probably will be. I know I got so mad at that, that game in God, what was it, 2017, when we played the Jags in London, I remember I was a freshman in college, and remember I woke up because the game started at 930, and I woke up at like 1030 or 11, and it was already 37-nothing Jags. And I'm like, wow, that just ruined that. That is the first thing I saw when I woke up. I was so mad, dude, so mad about that. All right, good luck, everybody. Let's do it. Ooh, that's pretty sick. Okay, I like this. I like this. Good luck here, everybody. Empty lid. That is five of 25. Saquon Barkley for the Giants. We've got 20 of 20. That's Big Ben, Heinz Ward, and Jerome Bettis. Game Ward, Heinz Ward. Player Ward, Rob Listerger, and Bettis. Nice. So that's Game Ward, Heinz Ward in the middle there. Very cool. Congrats, Pittsburgh. Nice one here for Jacksonville, 14 of 15, Travis Etn Jr. on the two-colored patch auto. Second year Etn. You can add this next one. 24 of 25. Going to the Texans. That is going to be a Damien Pierce. Congrats on that. That's triple and triple. Three-color, three-color. Damien Pierce. Rookie patch autograph. He did. You know where he was? On my bench. Nice one here, Jacksonville again. That is going to be one of five, Trayvon Walker with the signature gloves. Congrats on that one. No, Etn's fine. Nice Trayvon Walker. Got four of five. Going to the Chargers. That is going to be a Austin Eckler on the flawless Flyers. Yeah, this is from this year. Very cool. Congrats, Chages. And you can add this last one as well. Three of 20. Going to the Seahawks. Kenneth Walker.  Congrats on that. They're Seattle. Two-color and two-color. And Kenneth Walker notorious for not signing in the correct area of this card. Decided to go bottom. Decided to say we're gonna go bottom right on this instead. So thank you, K-9. Appreciate that, K-9. But still a nice card no matter what. All right. I'm gonna start off with six of 10. Miles Garrett. Congrats on that, Cleveland. Miles Garrett, of course, does not sign. So anything high-end Miles Garrett sells very well because he has not ever signed an autograph for Panini. We got one of 10. Danny Dimes. Daniel Jones. Going to the Giants. Congrats, New York. Sean says this is the best quarterback of all time named Dan. Danny Nichols. And we've got nice one here. 14 of 20 for the Niners. Joe Montana. Flawless Champions on card auto. Joe Cool. Four times Super Bowl champ. What was it? Twice against, uh, twice against the Bengals. One against the Dolphins. One against the Broncos, I think. If I'm correct on that one, the Broncos was a blowout. And then, yeah, once against the Dolphins, or twice against the Dolphins, maybe. I don't know. I know there was, I know there was Bengals, Dolphins, and Broncos. I don't know who was the second one. Who was the one that had two. I think it was a good one there. Congrats to the Niners. Very nice. Take Joe Montana. All right. Case, or box number two, I should say. Ray has a champ. It's a, it's not an auto, I don't think, Joe. I think it's just the increased gen card. He has a champion one, I think. I can verify that. He's got an auto. I don't think it's the champ. No, he does. He has a champion two time signature. Yes, he does. Yes, he does. He has an honored ink and a champion as well. Okay, jeez. We're talking about raptors, too. Yeah, I see raptors. For the Celtics. Yeah, we're just showing them. Cooking up a trade package. I'll see a shield in here, too. Oh, that's cool. We've got Fred Taylor, Maurice Jones, Drew, and Travis Etn. 10 of 20 for the Jags. Jags are killing it in this break, man. Killing it because they had the Walker, the Etn, and now this. 12 of 15, that is going to be Justin Herbert and Austin Eckler. Congrats on that, Chargers. Flawless connections. Nice one here for you, Alvin. Two of six, Archie Manning. Archie Manning, two of six. Going to the Saints, gorgeous signature. I think this is going to be a random. Find them here. That'd be pretty, pretty, pretty cool. Am I blind? Okay, there we go. Yeah, so this will be a random. Three of three, that is going to be Isaac Bruce, Rams and Niners. And super weird to see Isaac Bruce as a 49er. Again, you can see on the back both Rams and Niners are shown on the card. So that'll be random between those two teams. Oh, this is sweet, man. Four of eight is going to be a John Randall. Congrats on that Minnesota.  John Randall is such a beast. Another nice one here for the Rams. That is 12 of 25. Cooper Cupp on the Jersey and two-color patch on the bottom. Cooper Cupp. And nice one here for the Cowboys. Five of ten, Michael Irvin. Been a minute since we've seen him sign. So congrats on that. They're Dallas. Of course, that is the same one as the Holt, but he was only a Cowboy. So it's just both Cowboys. It's nice. I need that Holt and or that Bruce when you get a chance, if you don't mind. Just so you can just throw it there because it's a random. So that's empty on the inner. The Outer. We've got God, man. Team's still killing it. Christian Kirk, two of 20 on the Ruby. Nice one there for the Jaguars. Christian Kirk, followed by a nice one here. It's going to be four of 20. Josh Allen for the Bills. There you go. Buffalo again on the Ruby. Yeah, another really good team in this product. There's a lot of Josh Allen autos all over the place. And then to finish us off, go into Atlanta. One of eight signature gloves, Desmond Ritter. Congrats on that ATL. I believe that's Jason H. Yes it is. Jason H. Congrats, buddy. Very nice hit there. Desmond Ritter signature gloves. All right. Got a quick random to do everybody. Empty case there. The Isaac Bruce auto. That is again numbered, I believe three of three. Let me set that up. Rams. Rams 49ers. 49ers. Okay, we're going to go ahead and roll the dice. Whatever team's on top after seven dice rolls. We'll get the, we'll get the card. Yeah, Congrats Jason. There you go, buddy. One, two, three, four, five, six, and seven. Going to the Niners. Niners are going to get the Isaac Bruce auto. All right, quick recap here, everybody. We had encased cards of Daniel Jones to 10, a Miles Garrett, Christian Kirk, and Josh Allen. I remember that. Oh yeah, I remember that. Ed Reid had a, one of those progressions out of Raven and Jets. That killed me. Well, did you see, I don't know if you saw Joe in Mosaic, Tyrell Suggs is a cardinal. That's Justin Herbert, Austin Eckler. Triple for the Jags of Taylor, MJD and Travis Etienne. Triple for the Steelers, Rodless Burger, Game Used, Heinz Ward, and Jerome Bettis. Saquon Barkley. We had Kenneth Walker. You can mag this one, Dylan. The K9, yeah. We're going to mag that for you there. Seahawks. You had Cooper Cup, Travis Etienne Jr., John Randall, Michael Irvin, Austin Eckler, Archie Manning, Trayvon Walker, Joe Montana on the Flawless Champions, Damian Pierce, RPA 225 for the Texans, and Desmond Ritter, one of eight encased signature gloves. That is going to do it for the break, everybody. Thanks again for the film. Next up got nothing.


In the photo which you have in front of you it's a photo and you will be able to find that also in the website Save Kids Life Luc Besson it's a three minutes movie explaining the battle children have to do to go from one side of the road to the other side and it's a film which has been made by Luc Besson. The fact this and injuries from road traffic crashes represent a massive cut for our society and dimension should be highlighted. 1.25 million people are killed in car crashes around the world each year.  Car crashes cause also 50 millions injured and disabled each year. The economic cost is over 500 billion USD yearly to national government. 90% of these fatalities occur in low and middle income countries despite only accounting for 54% of the world vehicles.  Tuberculosis 1 million people. Malaria 600,000. Road crashes in 2015 1.25. If nothing is done more than 2 million people will die on the world roads each year by 2030. That will mean that road related crashes will be the leading cause of deaths red of HIV aids Malaria and Tuberculosis. Today it is already the leading cause of deaths for young people from 15 to 29 years old. The SDG target is to half the level of fatalities and injured by 2020. The FIA federation international automobile we have two pillars. One is well known as being the regulator and legislator of motorsport. The other one is to host mobility organization or automobile association all around the world. Motorsport is a sort of road safety laboratory. The number of fatalities and accidents on motorsport has decreased dramatically. If we take Formula 1 around the year 70s we had about 3 to 4 fatalities every year and now in 20 years we had one unfortunate only one fatality. Professional drivers are trained to the highest standards. Infrastructure is designed to protect the drivers. Vehicles are safe, protect the driver in case of a collision are connected with a team of engineers and that's a perfect example of connected technology which is currently used in the virtual safety car. It is reported that human behavior is responsible for 90% of road accidents. It's a figure coming from NHTSC in the States. The safe system approach aims for a road system that takes human errors into account and is designed around five key pillars. Road safety management, training and education, infrastructure, vehicle safety and post-crash care. New innovative opportunities are on the horizon. Intelligent transport system and automated technology can drastically reduce the number of accidents caused by a human error. These technologies can even prevent accidents from happening in the first place. Several nations have announced an upgrade of their intelligent transport system infrastructure. Recently President Obama announced that the US will invest 4 billion in the next 10 years to accelerate the adoption of safe vehicles automation. A revolution in the mobility sphere is happening with new models shaping the sector like you have all heard about Hubert and blah blah car. We also need to ensure that new technologies are widely deployed in all markets that they are accessible and affordable. Road related fatalities continue to rise rapidly in emerging and low-income economies. We need to accelerate the implementation of these technologies in these nations. Last November 11th, we launched in New York under the leadership of the Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, the high level panel for road safety. Road safety is not a national issue. It is a global challenge. The key question is what to do now. And putting leaders together should allow us to give a priority of this pandemic as it has been done for other pandemics like HIV, malaria or tuberculosis or more recently for Ebola. And the panel will support the setting up of a UN Global Fund for Road Safety specific in country projects, regional observatories for road safety as well as awareness raising activities and key messages. An example of innovative funding could be implementing a mechanism to collect a contribution per car sale going towards road safety improvement. Businesses as part of their corporate social responsibility strategies have an important role to play in that respect. The time is right for the private sector to join forces with UN agencies, non-governmental groups, regional development banks like IDB, international organization to scale up interventions that have proven to be effective to save life. When we speak about negativity and technology as a solution to address road safety today, we must not forget that in developing an emerging nation, the situation is very different. People don't even know that a safety belt does exist and that they need to put one helmet. The average age of the fleet around those developing countries is between 30 to 60 years old age. And in a developed country like France, you will be surprised to know that the average age is nine years. So now I'm happy to ask my colleagues to take the floor. As John mentioned, this is a huge issue. Certainly in Latin America and the Caribbean, which is largely where we do our work as a development bank. It is even more acute the problem of road safety in emerging countries as compared to developed countries because the safety measures that he was alluding to are much stronger in developed countries as opposed to emerging countries. In the case of Latin America, it's 120,000 deaths a year. And this is a staggering number because if you work something like 17 and a half persons per 100,000 and that's a number in terms of if you looked at any security measure in any one city is way above the median average. Now who are most of the victims? Most of the victims are young people under 30 and equally are mostly people who are not necessarily involved in the accidents themselves but are on the side of roads or crossing roads as these amazing documentary points. So what is our work being concentrated on? Being that most of the users are vulnerable users, as I was saying, at least 50% and being that this is such an important area that is now part of the sustainable development goals. Our work is to begin to do the development work that we do in things like construction of roads and put a set of standards that have road safety included in them. And this is how to connect to first responders, how to get data collection and analysis, which I know Martin is going to speak to, but data collection of being able to quickly respond to where an accident happens. Many of the people that die in road accidents, their lives could have been saved if there was a quick response and a capability to get to the area. Equally, the standards of cars, something that FIA has been pushing for as well, and get the standards of cars that operate in our cities, in our countries, be at par with other parts of the world. Now, Jan was mentioning something as he looked at the projection of how deaths can grow. And the reason is fundamental. In developed countries, you have anywhere from 700 to 800 cars per thousand inhabitants. In Latin America, that number works out to about 200. As wages and development takes place, those numbers will increase. The challenge therefore becomes, can we do more mass transit systems, how we can prevent the explosion of cars that we have seen recently that basically translate themselves into traffic jams and everything that is derived? Or can this be done in a way that is planned and executed properly? We can save those lives. We know how to do it. The question is, how do we raise the awareness? How do we work collectively? Because this is an enterprise that cannot be left just to the governments. But more importantly to how we behave when we are as drivers, how do we, governments behave when they build roads? How statistics can help match this? And how the safety standards that need to be implemented begin to move there? And that's certainly kind of these most stable that Jan carries around of what needs to be done to quickly prevent deaths. Thank you. I'd first like to start with a story that starts with Mayor Bloomberg in New York City. And he said, if you can't measure what's going on in real time in your city, you can't manage it. You don't know what's going on. How can we gather real time status about what's going on on roads in parking areas within a city and make that data available to people who need to manage the city? And that was where we started. Our idea, which has turned out to be a good one, was to say there are about four billion street lights in the world. And I don't know how many of you are changing the lights in your house to LEDs, but all four billion of those lights outside will be converted to LED lights in the next 10 years. It will happen, all four billion. And so at the same time that we change that fixture from the old technology to LED, we enable sensors to be installed that allow the light to be knowledgeable about what's going on around it. We take all that information, we bring it back into the cloud, and then we've written an API, a programming language. So just like a phone, there will be thousands of applications that make use of that information. So there are many, many applications around security and surveillance and parking and so on. But I would like to focus on what this technology can enable for safety. So the first point I'd make is that consumers don't have to make a choice. They don't have to buy a new expensive car. They don't have to buy a new technology to take advantage of this if the city installs the infrastructure, it's there. So there are a couple of things we can do. First of all, from a knowledge perspective, we can do a number of things. We know where there are accidents. We know what an accident looks like. There's very powerful analytics in the light. So we can, the light can say, gee, there's been an accident in the media area around me. Instead of saying, oh, there's just an accident, we actually can tell which lanes of a multi-lane highway are moving at what speed. I don't know how many of you have said, oh, gee, I see an accident ahead. But which lane should you be in would be an important piece of information. Weather. So we can tell how deep the snow is. We can tell you whether or not, by measuring the reflectivity, whether there's ice on the road, we can tell you whether there's flooding. It is possible that we can also analyze the behavior of the cars to develop a model that would say, this particular car is behaving as if the driver is drunk, for instance. So there's a lot of things that we can do about getting situational knowledge. John's comment about F1 safety. When you think about an F1 track, you've got spotters and observers all around the track so you have complete situational awareness about what's going on at any point in time. The next part of that is then they have a system of flags and driver communication so they can let the drivers know what's going on. Now let's talk about what these lights can do. So we can use the lights as a signaling device. We can flash the lights if there's a problem ahead. We can combine the information that we gain with traffic control. So if emergency responders are trying to get to the scene of an accident, we can actually change and control the traffic light system to help move traffic in a right direction. So there's a lot we can do in terms of signaling and then, of course, there's convenience. So helping people find parking, for instance, which would reduce the amount of cars that are in any particular area at a point in time. The overall idea would be that with all this knowledge of the situation on the roads, we can reduce pedestrian and traffic deaths. There's a program in the United States called Vision Zero, which is 25 cities have signed up to say that we will have zero pedestrian deaths within two years. And our technology is an important part of many of their programs because the first thing they want to know is, well, where do pedestrians die and what's going on when that happens? I think it's going to be a very important piece of infrastructure and technology that contribute to this problem. So maybe a question for the three of you. What makes you think that we might make a difference going forward? What is different today that will make us optimistic for the future and to use your image? Maybe, thanks to your influence, we will choose a right lane to go right where we are needed to make a difference. Jean? Louis mentioned that we know what to do. It's around education. It's around low enforcement. It's around infrastructure, vehicles and post-crash care. So if we do apply those measures, as it has been done in some developed countries, you take the example of France. In the years 1970s, you had about 18,000 fatalities every year on the roads. 45 years later, you have just above 3,000. When I say just above, it's already very big, but compared to 18, I mean it's a significant improvement with three times more vehicles on the roads. So why? Simply because it was a decision to address the problem. And we need to convince the government. We need to convince the global community that road safety is essential. I mean it's very surprising because I mean a lot of people in the society don't consider road crashes.  When Ebola appeared, it was already a mobilization of the whole society with a lot of money which was engaged. And it has contributed to make a significant step to address this pandemic. On road crashes, I would say it's kind of business as usual, unless it does affect people who are close to you and then you start to be interested. So we must make sure that road crashes around the world is taken as a priority. And then of course you need to apply the program and of course from one country to another one things are different. I mean in Latin America, one extraordinary job has been done through a regional office and Luis knows it well, which is called Wazevi. And it's something we have been discussing, as you know, in a panel to try to initiate some regional road safety offices in Africa, in Middle East, in Asia to be able to divide the problem through the regions which, I mean, are facing different problems, as we mentioned earlier, make a kind of priority plan as well because you cannot address everything at the same time. So you must prioritize that. I mean, the target we are mentioning, by 2020 to half 12-bit, which is a very ambitious target. So how you will start? I mean, simply we start by education. And I mean, a lovely photo here. Last week we asked for one audience with a pope. And we asked him, please help us to fight this pandemic.  Put your safety belt, put your helmet, don't use your phone when you are driving, don't drink and drive, and don't overspeed. If you will apply those simple measures, I mean, you will half by 2020 the number of fatalities. So it's very important to address each category of what needs to be done, and then make sure that each single government will take that on board. Argentina is a good case because it points to the fact that it's doable. In a space of four years, Argentina was able to drop the numbers of deaths because of road safety by about 15 percent, and they continue to bring this number down. What did they do? Certainly raise the awareness and follow the conversation in civil society along the lines of the things that John just mentioned, the seat belt, the helmets, made it mandatory, and, you know, the drinking, the driving, the punishment of people who are infringing in these laws. And on the other hand, concentrate a lot on how roads are built and how the data collection is done, because the data collection to something that Hugh was mentioning is not very good. You know, we've at the bank, have supported the encounter from Jamaica all the way down to Argentina in ways to improve the data collection, which begins a process by which you can target more clearly where you can have this level of improvement. And so this is the road forward, I think, if a country takes this on in a passionate way and in society as a whole, for instance in Argentina some of the, you know, soccer players and others, you know, race car drivers, because as Hugh was saying, you know, think back of the years, and this is something John knows very well in Formula One where there were a lot of accidents. It was really the standards that were developed by FIA and others, who all of a sudden now you go around the racetrack and you have this huge amount of capacity to quickly react to car accidents. And then the whole question of the first responders, and this starts from the local level. It is not enough simply to do it at a national level, it's got to be done by every locality in every city and every state. The big driver is security. In any area of the world where there is a concern about terrorism or safety, systems like what we install, they serve multiple purposes. Traffic safety is one, but there's a lot of other safety issues. So while the cost is not very high, you get savings because the light is much more efficient, you know, we, what we do is normally the street lights on a highway are only lit at 10% power until a car is detected, and then we brighten the lights in front of the car so we minimize energy consumption. So we can pay for a lot of the system by the availability of energy savings and other applications. The other thing that happens because the system works with Wi-Fi, you get, when you install the system, you get Wi-Fi coverage over whatever area that you're lighting. And so there's a lot of interest in developing countries to get the communications infrastructure. So in areas where there's a concern about safety, where there's a concern about communications, they may not care as much about vehicle safety at the time. There's going to be a driver for this infrastructure, and because it's effectively a global iPhone, there will be applications that are available, and if you have the system, you can install the application.


Now you know how much of just fiends for football we all can be sometime. Especially at this point at the off season because stuff is super, super slow and now it's just that build up, that anticipation build up to when we gonna see the team and Paz again, when they get the training camp and all that because of course the rookies, they report I wanna say it's on July 18th, don't quote me on that and then I think the veterans, everybody comes through a week later on July 25th, I believe, again, don't quote me on those dates but I believe those are the ones but anyway, we're just waiting for something, waiting for something but Lamar Jackson, Odell Beckham, Jr., they both talked about it in the most recent presses that they had that they would be getting together down in South Florida and working out with each other and whatnot and so far, and they said some other guys would show up too, so far from what we've seen, what we've seen, Lamar Jackson and Zay Flowers, all they are, I mean and it's easy for both of them to be in South Florida because they both from South Florida what, not a shout out to the both of them but it's nice man, because this, like off season, Lamar Jackson, the weapons that he has pretty much, everybody that he's gonna be throwing to, minus Rashad Bateman and Mark Andrews, but as far as the receivers, most of the guys that he's gonna be throwing to are brand new, they brand new. Like the returning guys, Rashad Bateman, Devin Duvenay, those are the guys that are essentially locks right now to return but other than that, Odell Beckham, Jr., Zay Flowers, Nelson Aguilore and of course from all those reports that we heard from the minicamp, seemed like Lamar and Nelson Aguilore got a little connection right now, so that's a beautiful thing and we hope that that continues and that advances and it just keeps on getting better and better and I mean as a matter of fact, they were already working out together before the minicamp, remember that? Remember the pictures and videos that came out with Lamar Jackson, Nelson Aguilore down in South Florida where, so they already got their time in too but I expect them to get more but it's, even though it's not a requirement that Lamar and the receivers, they work out together because this is their off season, like this is when they get a break and they deserve their break, like football players, they put in a lot of time every single year and like that's a lot of work, man. It's a whole lot of work. So this is not something that they have to do but the fact that they are doing it, it's just a beautiful thing and something that we should keep in mind too because I know a lot of people get worked up every year. They look at these pictures and videos that players will put out and whatnot and some fans will see some players in certain pictures and videos and they'll see that some players are not there and they'll be like, oh, why is that player not there? That player's not getting close with the team, that player's not working out, terrible teammate, da, da, da, da. And it's like, well, remember social media is only what people allow you or want you to see. Social media is not 100% of people's lives. It's only a small section of it. So if there's a player that you do see or that you don't see in the video or in the picture or whatnot, it does not mean that they're not working. And that can be on the flip side too because they can be a player that you do see in a picture of video. It's so easy, like I could do it myself and fool a lot of people. I could take a picture or a video of myself with weights, just lifting weights like that. Five second video, 10 second video, and I could caption it, hey, getting it in. And people would say, oh man, he's really working out. He crushing it in the gym right now. And I could just do that for those five, 10 seconds and put them right down, go back to eating chicken sandwich. And that would be that. So social media, you can manipulate it so easily. And that's what you see a lot of people do, but that's a whole another subject for another day. But just because you see somebody or just because you don't see somebody doesn't mean you know 100% of what's going on. But anyway, back to the subject at hand. Lamar Jackson and Zate Flowers getting in and shout out to Spence Fit because they're working with him. So shout out to him. Gotta give him his credit as well. So they had to video them working out on the beach. And you know the beach, like first off, the south floor of the sun and if any of y'all done been down here before, the sun is, it's real deal as you all know. I mean the floor of the sun in general, but the south floor of the sun, it ain't nothing like it. But to be working out on the beach, like that really works your body that much more. Especially to be running in the sand because you can run on concrete, you can run on dirt, you can run on gravel, you can run on all that stuff. But to run in the sand, the sand actually requires more of your body. I ain't no health guy, nothing like that. We just know from experience. The sand requires more of your body to just run through it. Because it's almost like when you step in the sand, your feet are like sinking. So it requires more effort and more work to get your feet up every time you take a step or every time you run and whatnot. So I'm excited man, I'm excited. And even if they ain't put no video out of them working out, I'm still excited for this season just to see what these guys do because it's all brand new. It's all brand new, a brand new wire receiver core, brand new offense. And it's just, this is why it was so important that the Ravens got the deal done early. Cause I was really scared that this thing could get really ugly. There were some times where it did get ugly, but I was scared that this thing, if they didn't get it done, it could linger and it just, it would not be good. But they got it done right before the draft, got that taken care of. And that allowed Lamar to be at the mini camp and all that stuff. And now he's going to be at training camps. He ain't got to worry about no hold out or none of the, he ain't got to worry about none of that stuff. That's all like, all bad situations. They, they, they avoided them. We ain't got to worry about them. So this just them working out together.  And it's nice. It's nice. Odell Beckham, Jr. I'm sure we'll start to see videos of him down there soon. We did see a video of a picture of him. I think he was with DJ Khaled as I'm playing golf in Miami. So he's right around the corner. So I'm sure him and Lamar, they'll link up. Ain't no like Odell. He know Odell gonna post it for sure. Cause Odell like, he is the most popular guy on the Ravens. And Ravens realized that Ravens know that. Um, they, they realized like, hold up. We, we got Odell Beck, like sometimes when I think about that, like man, they got Odell Beckham, Jr. Odell, but the same Odell, obviously one hand, Odell Beckham, Jr., but Odell Beckham, Jr., who is literally everywhere, everywhere with everybody. And he, he looks like he likes being out. You know, Lamar, he don't really like being out like that, but Odell Beckham, Jr. likes being out like that.  So I mean, it's just, it's just fitting. It makes too much sense that the Ravens win the Super Bowl this year. Like why not? Like for real. But anyway, um, these boys getting it in now, it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing and it just gives us a glimpse of what it could be like in a couple of months. It is the end of June right now. It's the end of June and training camp is at the end of July. And then there's gonna be pre-season. Then the season to be here before you know it. I was just talking to my guy, Sick Kicks Global, and he was telling me, he's like, man, he can't wait for the season to start. And I was like, yeah, I mean, I'm excited for it, but I'm enjoying the slow time. I love it. I'm enjoying it. It's, it's relaxing. And then you get to chill before everything gets a little loopy. So yeah, but anyway, I love y'all. I appreciate y'all. Shout out to Lamar, shout out to Zay, shout out to just all the Ravens offense who gonna be working together because chemistry is real, man. Chemistry is important, building rapport is important, but it's just as important to have it on the field as it is off the field too. Because if you have it off the field, then that makes the on-field chemistry that much better. Ask Lamar in Hollywood. Ask them. When the last time that he had her had a receiver, where he had that chemistry with like that. Ask Lamar and Mark Andrews. But if we speak in just receiver, Lamar and Hollywood, they had it. They had it big time. They really did. And in my opinion, I don't think Lamar has had it with another receiver like he had it with Hollywood. I remember them boys used to always come into the games together and stuff, ride around on the go-kart and all that. And there was a little fairy tale where they weren't coming into the games with each other. Little animosity, but they got past that and they start coming back to the games together and all that. They were locked in, man. So if Lamar can build up that chemistry, do what it takes to build up that chemistry with the other guys too. Not saying that it's gonna be like that with every single receiver. It'd be nice if it is. Hey, we ain't gonna be mad. But if he can build that up. I think he had really good chemistry with Rashad Bateman too. That dude. And it was weird. Cause I remember when Rashad Bateman first in his rookie year, I was thinking, all right, he done missed all this time. He gonna, him and Lamar gonna be off. Nope. They were on like from jump. So whatever they worked on when they did get to work together in the Rashad Bateman's rookie season and all the time that he missed with his injury when he came back and him and Lamar, they had it, man. They had it. So I'm looking forward to that too. That just that chemistry increasing, that bond increasing, that rapport increasing. So this should be a real fun season, man. Again, as long as they can get through what's been their biggest enemy in health, Raven's got it. This feels like a dream. Boy, he like automated. Automated. Boy, that's my homie, and then Raven. Shout out to Raven.