We'll get into the details of it when we get there But like this film is going to end with of course she will be defeated because she is the bad guy um And it is done so in this film as it is in some Some films the villain is outright killed some films the villain realizes what they're doing is wrong This is the last well, this is both but uh, she yeah, she realizes what she's doing is wrong It's like so the dark hole doesn't prevent that from happening character growth Like it corrupts you but you can still learn and grow and become a better person This sounds like bullshit to me. This sounds like a mechanic You're using to have an excuse to not judge it too harshly I guess a little bit also to jump the gun the book is out of play From her perspective for half the film Yeah, and he doesn't have a lingering effect at all. Yeah, does it have a lingering corrosive effect Like it takes a little while to recover from it Like it's you know, like you've got a cold or something It's like, oh well you got it now, but I mean it'll take you a couple days to get over that one You know like get over the dark hold corruption and also Oh, let's go for it inclusion is that she's uh, the the dark hold and that line exists to Try and stymie the criticism that she will get as a character Uh, that's it You ain't gonna work It doesn't work No, and like the only like I was racking my brain to find a way that they could have used the dark hold to Retroactively justify wonder vision from a writing perspective And the only thing I could think of is if they made it clear that agatha was using the dark hold to corrupt wonder over time to make her Gradually more okay with the evil actions that she was being manipulated to do and then takes complete control And that's when the full corruption happens Yeah, that's an idea because in wonder vision agatha didn't really do anything wonder was responsible for They didn't know what to do with her in that show. They were like I had no idea Oh No, and there's there's characters out there that corrupt people that could have been used that both of these characters have fought Uh nightmare Mephisto Yeah The card that they could play at any point to benefit them significantly Dude, how cool would it be if you had a series of phase four movies? And Mephisto was behind Several of the events like because he's being built up as the main guy. He's causing all of that. He corrupts her He uh, he makes the spell go wrong in spider-man. He you know does this he does that he does devil deals Like that would be really cool as a build up for him being the main villain Yeah, that's how you ramp it up.   She says this isn't like this isn't corruption. I've been shown the truth Yeah But I mean, I guess this is probably worth noting If you want to hold on to the claim that it is the dark hold that's corrupting her How can you praise any aspect of like character in in the film if she is for 90% of it an automaton who is entirely At the whim of like another book Well, what what is the meaning of a choice that she makes at the end if for 90% of the film she wasn't making choices at all You know like you can't have it both ways No, and what was the argument for not putting dr. Strange from kevin feige's Own pie hole for not putting putting dr. Strange into wandavision. He would take uh away her agency What is Yeah, uh, um, yeah, uh molla was this what you were imagining?  So it's beautiful. Um So, uh, like I said, yeah, this this is to me More so, uh, the dark hold like will give you a little push That's the best I can gather from this movie without Just going by actions Because she does a lot of things in order to prevent herself from killing more people I don't see why she would have any limits You see a dr. Strange later in the movie Who's decided he's going to start killing people and the implication again is that it's the dark hold that did that to him I think that makes this even make even less sense Like all of this it's like does it just make you want to kill people because his logic was like I see lots of sad dr. Strange's out there.  That's definitely the word of the day for many reasons um But yeah, she tries to reason with dark strange several times too. I'm just like, yeah, dark hold doesn't push you that far Then it makes sure you Basically, if there was no dark hold Um, all of her reasoning would line up as just as stupid as it was in wandavision Mm-hmm Which is why by the way like I actually think that this the wandavision did better for a character than this movie does because at least wandavision add her say when Basically the wandavision argues that she was in denial It's really badly done But they have that moment where they're like i'm suffering your nightmares or my dreams.  You're happy Like I tried they try to make you think that wandavision was under the Sorry, wander was under the impression that they were happy being enslaved, which doesn't solve the problem You're still a horrible person for doing that by the way. That's just how that works.   So america chavez says So the woman you went to for help is the person that's trying to kill me for my powers and you told her where I am And doc strange is like Yeah, I did So the implication of that Is that foolishly he is a loud wander to now know the location of america chavez. It's like well First of all, first of all, you can teleport out. So you can leave. Yeah Very easily more importantly You've been chased across the multi-verse by this woman. Do you think she doesn't know where you are at all times? She has to know otherwise None of it would make sense otherwise and we see that she's chasing her through the dark hole She can just hone in on it wherever she wants to yeah So that how that doesn't I don't know. I don't know how So that doesn't even work.  It's like she always knows where you are What do you mean? That's a little point.  I think they should have explained like oh man I don't know. You're right. You're right I'm this old and naive and it's just there you go so, um Yeah, I guess to put us back on track of of what we almost started talking about So now they know the multi-versus the stake wand is coming here full power. This is terrifying All everyone basically Yeah, I think this was the point in the movie for me where I was just like 100 percent totally just checked out Where I was yeah, because it it feels so quick. It is quick. Oh, yeah We're moving very fast. I know it should be because at some point it was just sitting in my seat I was like just Watching things happen. It's like I don't care like what why are we here? I mean, I know why we're there but Just and then and then and then it was like yeah just in the stupidity of it Like we're just here now at the at the at the castle And she's coming now And there's no time to prepare or do anything and you guys aren't calling people. I'm just I'm done I'm checked out done. Yeah, just trouble the rest of the movie so I can go home Pretty much someone said um, did they forget that she can teleport as well. Does she have the power to teleport? No wonder I don't think she does But that's it. Oh, no, no ignore this movie. I mean if they established that she can teleport before this Oh, um, I don't think so. I don't recall. No, I don't remember being able to teleport So, I mean she flew from America I was gonna say is important That I know that she can or can't teleport with the thing Someone someone someone said yes, probably yes I'm not so to be fair. I'm not talking about the comic vision. She might be able to but She doesn't in one division No, she got she goes she goes invisible. I don't think she teleports remember when she's fighting agatha She like disappears, but I didn't think that was teleporting. I thought that was just her going invisible And she can't make portal. She needed wong for that. Well, we'll get to that, but you know She teleported from being a good character into a bad one. No That's true. That's true. She did Well, but she can't in this movie because you just brought that up She needed wong because I remember her doing the fast walk, but I don't think that counts I don't even know if the fast walk was a fast walk. Oh, you're right. Yes. She needed um She needed wong to teleport her to the place Yep Well, that's what I'm saying this whole film falls apart if she can teleport that that fucks a lot of things up But I'm pretty sure she can't I think Like she can do the dream walking thing which we'll get into but that's not teleporting. That's uh a bit more complicated I don't think it was turning invisible.   We'll get that. So yeah, we'll get to that. Um All right. Yeah, okay so, uh You might be thinking yourself Did they address not calling in any superheroes? Well, you know what my favorite one was Let's go over the easier one first actually he says Oh, we're gonna do call in a bunch of bug themed superheroes It's like, I don't know. I was just sitting there like what are you?   Yeah, he's just a bug superhero I don't understand It's funny. It's funny. Haha. He's bug themed. Bug is a funny word.  He is not talking about that when he says that line He's talking about fighting these monster things. He's talking to her about bringing in spider-man And he says why would I need to bring giant man versus tentacle boy pretty sure giant man would be able to help But no, he's a bug themed superhero.   I was having a great great time Also, if I could just clarify by the way, even if you said there's no point in calling spider-man What's he gonna do against wander? I'd be like motherfucker. It's the end of the multiverse.   Have the reaction time to stop bullets Arrows are there comes a time where you just need to throw bodies at a problem no matter Honestly, we're getting there. That's what all this is leading to I basically say So why don't they bring in some other people?  You literally have a whole army of archers Except hawkeye actually has a bit of a relationship with wander. So that might help I wanted to address it mechanically first like his abilities.  He has crazy arrows He has super way better.  They don't do anything So you got that already, but then you're like, yeah Do you know who the one person who might actually be able to stop her is on planet earth right now? Because nobody knows about vision because everyone nobody cares about that until they're gonna care about it Whatever is clint.  They wouldn't want that, you know because wonder in the snap I lost my kids in the snap and the way I handled that was not Yeah, yes Yes, and they don't use any of it. They don't they don't use any of it and well, they don't give him some like stuff Wow, you talked about some stuff The truth of it is that they didn't want her killing any mainline mcu heroes because then that'd be Because unfortunately for some reason this isn't the point of no return Um In sort of I guess a broad sort of perspective on the character But I mean if she killed spider-man like that would be there would that would be the end of like broad investment in this character So it's a lot safer to just put her a get a bunch of nameless people and then kill variants So that so that you can still have her be a hero in a subsequent story That's the reality of this choice and this kids is why You do indeed Uh create inconsistency It's like oh that laser shouldn't blow that up if it didn't blow that up and stuff But when you don't care about continuity you also miss opportunities You miss big chances to create emotional payoffs almost for free Because they're all set up previously and they're there for you But because you don't care about the stuff that came before You don't even know that that's a possibility and yet completely lost the potential because They didn't even recognize that was the situation instead. They have dr. Strange say What am I gonna do? Brigadier archer with a mohawk? No Okay, like they saved the world all together. It's like he has no respect for his teammates.     She's probably busy. It's like okay So dr. Strange has the capacity as proven in at least no way home But I think that there are other places that this is proven to open portals to wherever the person is By thinking about them We know in xiangxi because of the post credit scene that he has a direct line of communication with with a Because wang had it Well, so I was just clarifying that even without that Right, so yeah, he can get to nick fury and then nick fury will get him to everyone in the cosmic side of the universe And when you tell nick fury, we're dealing with a fight on earth right now that if we don't win the entire multi-verse is destroyed Essentially, I think that might mobilize some people to help you Yeah And then you might be like, well, how will they get there in time? Don't worry, baby.  In fact, he's probably chilling in some restaurant right now with those rings He's probably available. Yeah, you're gonna want him too.  Uh, it's well, it's dr. Strange Wong yeah, and The sorcerers in kamatash All right, who else and and a few other sorcerers from the other, um Sanctums in hong kong and uh, london.  Yeah, what's up with the green minotaur? He's just another movie that i missed. I don't know Because he gets an odd amount of screen time, which i'm fine with it's just weird It is weird because it's like well, he's not from then From a different I don't think so and let's I don't know already. I don't know. It just seems odd that you're just here Is like I see a random alien and mass effect or whatever. I'm like, okay.  It's like I figure I just don't know Who he is or where he's from here, but just fine.  Yeah, it's my checkout point. This was it in the theater in the moment Um, there are so many things to go through people in chat already highlight and so many things that are wrong with this scene It's it's tough to figure out how to because we'll talk about battle tactics We'll talk about the conversation that wander and strange have we'll talk about wander's Decisions when attacking we'll talk about their formation Like I just don't know which one to go first chronologically speaking We'll probably go with their conversation because that's what happens next. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  It's rent. It's rent. Sorry. I was distracted. Uh Big-time comic artists died today. I just found out George pres who drew a lot of scarlet witch Through a lot of Avengers a lot of this stuff. So rest in peace down Dude Teen Titans.  Yeah, that was just an isolated bad thing that happened in our life She's over vision. She's well.  I I will go further. I will say it's uh abject assassination of her character that all of her perfect worlds don't have vision in it after you watch Wanda vision and yeah, well, I think that's all you need to prove that this isn't completely incongruous with what they've established One of those people you could have called was vision Yep, still alive. Well white vision. Yeah, nobody knows where he is gary. Nobody's spoken to him.  There's no no one knows about that So yeah, um It's actually annoying that uh her perfect world is here with the kids No vision when she can just have vision would be a thing too. It's infinite universes There has got to be one where he didn't die and the kids are fine Oh, do you think they did that because it didn't want to? You would pull that? Sorry I presumably they didn't want to have to deal with pull that and he being in this No, they This and don't want to deal with the consequences of him possibly being there in the other multiverses When she's going apeshit and then oh, well, you're right actually Yeah, because that's another variable where he's around because if vision is alive and well in all these other universes Yeah, he's one of the people that could probably kill her.  Oh, yeah, it's like required Been in it at it's based on one division So i'm gonna go one step further and I think it's the they just didn't want another dude in the film That's it. You know they could look for him or Well, it could be the johnny dev stuff I could that could play into it I don't know because at that point if it was out that he had sent that message about the whole The thing with hamberhead was really funny, but if if in the right context can come across as very, um, aggressive Let's say maybe they were uh Because didn't fall about any at one point say that he thought like his career was over because of different controversies But then he got iron man To be the voice of javis and he was like holy shit um I think It'll be interesting to see if he gets to have more roles after what's been happening. I don't know What has happened and i'm not i'm out of the loop. Well, so he's gonna is he testifying at all? I don't know so He's he's tied up a little bit in the uh in the hamberhead johnny dev case because he had text back and forth With johnny dev about how much for horrible person she is. Um, oh I think that's a win. It's well, it should be a win at this point Like you think public opinion anyway But if you remember there was a time where it was kind of the reverse and the uh So, you know, and this is all planned ahead.    That's some good old-fashioned racism and sexism right there Nice bundle them together package deal Yeah So to speak Have we gotten into how Wanda is quote-unquote unique in the multiverse in this um version of the uh In uh, you mean america? Oh, no, no, no, no. Well, well, there's that but then there's uh, i'm trying not to give it away, but um if we haven't already have it but uh Wanda's um How wonder looked into the multiverse and saw how she was different to every other wonder in the multiverse We are almost kind of vish able to talk about that. Yeah, it's gonna pop up the astronomical Yeah, you are not wrong. They're uh, yeah, i'm not even sure if he's talking about that one rags There's so much wrong with this film.    Yes.  I was like, why are you angry at him? He just said that you did the thing and the only interpretation I can come up with that might make some sense in some distant universe Is the fact that he said you've had to make terrible sacrifices and she said I had to kill him and it didn't mean anything as if to imply It was a sacrifice that didn't have any payoff if you understand what i'm saying like I know yeah, I know what you mean So like don't speak to me about sacrifice, but that still doesn't really make sense. Does it like no Because it was a sacrifice.  You just yeah, you just don't get what you want.  It's like Yeah, all right Um So Uh, there's one line. I actually like here though kind of and I don't know if it's I'm deciding whether or not It's the performance or if it's the the writing but performance when she says um, you know If you let me have a I can put you in a universe where you can be with uh, christine Which uh, is like, okay. That's that's kind of like that might tempt him he looks like he Kind of like like he he backs up and looks almost furious at it And I have a feeling what I gather from that is the fact that he knows that that's actually tempting Yeah, and that's why because his response to that is the full might of camotage stands against you Um, basically it's like him switching from being like, okay, can we solve this to hostile?   I want to think through this for five seconds Ga-gargantos is the example we'll go with because he's in this universe meaning she could have gone after her personally He's smashing and crashing through everything to very fumbly try and pick her up But then what I'm assuming he can't stop the power himself. He has to bring her to you Or you have to come to him to get the power, right? Is that how that works?   You don't have to throw a motorcycle Doesn't doesn't draw any attention. No. Yeah, you could even drop down and be like you have great power I can sense it. Are you are you okay? You safe? I'm I'm the scarlet witch I am maybe even introduce yourself as just wander.  Especially because wander would know at that point that she's running away from monsters that she doesn't know the context for We're like, I'll look after you come to my come to my nice house Now just sit in this nice chair drink this nice tea It's made of candy. Yeah. Now you're asleep. Are you down?    Yep Thank you insane Absolutely crazy, and yeah, uh That's her logic when in reality it's more so that they needed to have different villains to bait in the trailers like the creepy monsters And and they didn't want it to be overt that she was going to be the bad guy Because if they'd started with her as the bad guy like she's chasing them in that opening sequence And there's no monsters at all. You can't really use them in the trailers Do you just be like, yeah, so yeah, we've got to got it Got to keep the reveal that she's the villain up to about the half hour mark or something any way we can do it Oh But that's a justification it'll get worse by the way when you find out more about how she can use that dark holes Um Anyone else thinking of that conversation? I think that was mostly uh Is that where she says that she dreams of a dream dream about the children It's even later god damn it Uh She doesn't try to kill him once she ends the conversation with firing a blast directly at him But she's surprised to find there's a barrier So, you know like if you wanted overt, uh confirmation that she's willing to kill him.  What are you doing? I learned the mirror dimension Now what are you doing? It just flies down. He's like right everybody prepare the barriers. What are you doing? Mirror divention Orinals up something. Oh You know sometimes I like I think to myself like is there even a point in thinking about the portals because they just like Pretend they don't have them all the time That happens in the the new star trek a lot they forget they have transporters all the time they get in the way gary We wouldn't want that they get in the way of our story So, uh, yeah, no portals no mirror dimension Instead and this is the part where we talk about battle tactics. I guess they have Let's call it a third of their sorcerers trying to organize a barrier while the rest of them stand and watch Yep This includes strange and wong Strange and wong do not do any spells They're just looking so god's gonna be fine. I guess They're just watching. It's not there's no it's fine if things don't go our way It's really they have no investment in this happening before their eyes. It's all good Just I like this in chat you got back to back. They never did the mirror dimension They used the mirror dimension. All right, so both of you Just wait. Okay. First of all, oh, they didn't use it when they were supposed to but they do eventually use it But we'll get to that. We're gonna we're gonna. Oh boy. We both have pieces of the truth. Yes.  Why why isn't there even two layers?  You got loads of sorcerers and is this the plan?  Is that it?  Why you even have arches and Well, yeah, we're pretty chill about it until she starts firing some bolts Thing is they don't go through you see it's a magical barrier that prevents magic from getting through is like all right, okay Oh, thank goodness. We that's important. That's good. I think what's funny by the way Is when she fires a couple of blasts wong is like reinforce the barrier and a bunch of Sorcerers just come in and start activating the barrier powers. It's like why weren't you here already?  Would it not? Probably He's gonna mohawk. No, we make fun of him. Where are the shang chi archers? Where's marvel's katie? She could have taken her marvel's katie could have done something here, but no So She's got to think outside the box How how is she think outside the dome if you will how does she get in here? What she do? um She decides to Mind influence one of the barrier people into being afraid and he runs away Now this was not satisfying to me Because that means her magic can get through the barrier Yep Which means a semi permeable barrier and if someone was like Well, yeah, she can get those powers through and be like so can she get telekinesis through That's not and it's like well Powers are just really different than the blasts that she was making Well, so if you throw a projectile That's fine with me that it can block that and it and but But it can't block a mine thing, but it's like but then surely it can't block telekinesis She should be able to pick people up from where she is And if she if her mind powers can get through you need to make all of your defenders aware of that Well, it seems that wong is aware of that. He says you have to why I bring it up. Yeah And so If if that's a reality I just yeah, we're we're fucked then aren't we because um, she can just make all of you afraid one by one until she just wins So um, I think it's incredibly unsatisfying that the way she defeats the magic barrier is using magic I think that I guess it's like well, how else are you gonna do it?   They were just like, yeah That's what I'm saying. I think though what you just said are all the five second suggestions Where you've got to think about it for five seconds And they're all more satisfying than her going. Hmm. My spells aren't working. Let me try my spells And then we can the ground under them and she doesn't even like say to herself I need a different kind of magic to imply that there's a legit difference like that would be something something I assume that's what we're supposed to believe. I just don't understand why that would mean Your telekinesis wouldn't work and in which case that's a way better. She starts using it once the barrier goes down But I'm like, well, why wouldn't you be able to use that anyway? It's it's at-range magical casting on a person.  But the telekinesis wouldn't I don't understand That's the only reason she can't even do that is because no one else is attacking her Everyone is just standing there and just Well, yeah, so while she's doing you're right while she's doing the mind control That is the perfect time to drop literally an anvil on her. Why not just do that with a portal?  Oh, sorry. No, I was just you know brought up the portals again I can't let it go. Yeah, I shouldn't let it go.  It's so useful Well, yeah, and to be honest with you at this point They should be portaling america out As the fight starts get her out of there just because she cannot be captured. You need to get her out Yeah, teleport her to titan Okay. Yeah, why not teleport scala.  Well, you see friggy. We're not allowed to editate that because yeah, we can't do that It's like superman can't just pick people up and carry them into space because that would genuinely People will say is like they've never done that before so what makes you think it's possible It's like, you know what they have done a portal to titan so we can do that do that Just tight teleport them to a place that doesn't have an atmosphere like the moon Yeah, we've never seen that happen before we don't know that they can do that Even though they teleported from titan to earth in endgame. Yeah, well, that's a different Spider-man was on titan.  Yeah, I assume so at least of our concerns Well, maybe you wonder like is how does it go down all the way? That would be cool if she had a creature trying to burrow and it starts digging down But it just like it hits the bottom side of the spell barrier and it's like, oh well, I mean I get all right, you know not unheard of but it was worth a shot Yeah, it's worth it's worth reminding everybody as well that the portals can be moved they can actively move seen him do this so You can even you don't have to you know, hope she falls into one You could just move it on to her her strategy should be to steal a sling ring Yeah, so she can portal inside to wherever to America and then Grab her that would have been the plot Oh, what if she gets a sling ring? No, uh, she'll instead just do one one by the way one mind trick. That's it I Okay, it's like one percent weaker now. Is that is that the threshold for you being able to get in? Oh, well rags. Don't you remember he runs? He runs into five people So there's like six down now and it's funny because wong and strange just look at the gap like oh, no It's like guys cast spells Yes, you can do that do something It's funny um A big bolt of light comes down from here and hits the ground right and explodes everything and then a bunch of Rocks are about to hit some people and dr. Strange makes a shield to stop that from happening And it's like bro. Yes, you could have made a shield to stop the bolt of light. You can't He could probably do a dome by himself He's super powerful. Well, yeah, uh, there was a huge shield made by wong and infinity ball. Yeah, exactly It's yeah, it's absolutely embarrassing and it's so quick too within like 30 seconds. She just kills everyone Yeah, and thus begins and and you get to hear all the sorcerers scream as they get like thrown off and arrows shot into them and blown up and disintegrated All of these people who are very nobily Putting their lives on the line to defend the multiverse essentially sages is what these guys are Like that's essentially what the sorcerers are. They're super balanced altruistic people dying horrible deaths It's yeah Yeah, I'm gonna say the bolts of that.  So it's like, oh, they got hit with arrows I'm not even getting for gore more so than just Is the weird grizzly is that what i'm looking for where it's just like something It's like throwing someone Throwing someone off a cliff, for example, it can you just feel like uh, it's like, oh, that's not pretty Yeah, yeah But then we have like so for example when uh thanos is torturing nebula.  Um So all those deaths, they're all over level. I think the impaling them with all the arrows was still kind of like wow All right.  She goes up the entire place Terrified now you might imagine as with how wall works A lot of people are dead. There's probably some injured on the battlefield She lands Edding inside and the camera like i don't i'm not sure if this was a good choice.  It's um like I I don't I like yeah, I don't like watching this, you know, like I don't like seeing this Yeah, it's like I get it It's it's like that's what she would do But it's really off-putting to see this happening especially in a marvel movie No, I I so this is what I would clarify when I see Thanos do bad things I can at least watch it with the knowledge Okay, the film and also broader society recognizes that he's the villain So I can just sit there and be chill with that Um, unfortunately because it's like oh, we all agree, right? He's like a monster. You know, he's a bad guy, right? He's doing yeah, we agree. This is bad. What's happening. It's supposed to be seen as a very bad thing.   It's like seems like he didn't pay attention to anything anyone said, but it's not about Well, so my main argument is um, I respect the ones that have been made already But like the one I went to first is why it made me uncomfortable was just um So you put all this effort into explaining that she's Invested in doing this the quickest easiest and painless way possible to get what she wants This guy is done. He's out of the fight. He's if anything.  It's like I'm going out of my way to unnecessarily Slay people who wanted to stop me understand because there's a there should it's like Thanos understood why people Yeah, that's right. Yeah, like there was that Yeah, yeah, like I know that you why you are I expect you to that's why I brought an army and um Wanda's just seems like he going out of the way to be cruel and just terrible And just to make sure you understand like they're she didn't check if everyone's dead and make sure like she kills This guy got that treatment that because later will discover that her lack of investment in making sure that this place is now safe for her costs a big time, but uh it's It's just it's just weird to watch that she just sees this guy screaming in pain.  Mm-hmm Um and just in regards to some of the content. Uh, this isn't really a criticism as much as it is just an observation like it does get It does get quite graphic Especially later in the film to the point where I wonder how the hell did this get a pg-13 rating? Yeah, that's one of the things I said to moller when I got back and we kind of just had a casual chat was like Wow, this was really testing in our rating And it's weird is that it's not like throughout it's specific things that are not Necessary that they went through to show and were really uncomfortable to watch That you would think oh this is we're really getting into our territory here Kind of I guess I guess an aspect that's probably annoying me as well as the knowledge that for for sure She will become a hero later on and it's like every time I watch that I'm just going to be like Oh, yeah, remember all those people you killed in kamata's like that dude was crawling away And then you just executed him. You know what I mean? Like I I guess I guess maybe my frustration does stem from the matter the knowledge that she will Absolutely become a hero again at some stage in the future And and then you kind of have to just pretend like none of this really happened You got to try and divorce it from your mind.  They're just like sorcerers. They're not like named characters Um, I think it is the matter that annoys me here. It's just like a lack of Full recognition of the nature of what's going on here that really bugs me just kind of it rubs me the wrong way She walks past a flaming like half corpse, by the way, it's like Yeah The lady who stabs the book later and things like that where you're like, oh, wow, that's um, so I think that Some people are asking as well. Is it not possible? She's trying to put him out of his misery like no, watch the scene It's definitely not that it's it's the it's I will put you into more misery. It's like maybe you could have lived Even seem to know the nature of his position. She's too far away and this mist everywhere. She just gets rid of him She just sees movement and annihilates cruelly Is this okay for a 12 year old to watch? I mean me at 12 would have been fine with this But I could see a kid getting terrified by this Yeah, if I was 12 watching this I would not have been okay.  I swear. Okay fun Um So anyway after all that death that carnage. Yeah all that they put her in the mirror dimension Yeah, that's like gone on.  I was like you now Like I don't know guys long and strange you are in part responsible for these people.  Yeah Yeah, that's that's the thing that we're missing.  Yeah, I think yeah, I think that's I think that's what is needed is um Is like an in film sort of clear like through characters sort of you know, just like Looks or you know shots and stuff just like a clear recognition of like damn. This is awful What's happening? These are not just random background mooks being killed by a hero. No, these are very good people. Yeah He was writhing in pain. Yes. Wanda put him out of his misery I'm glad she's a doctor and knows that he's got no chance of living and thus needs to be executed and remember To integrate him, you know, there's nothing left. It's as though he never even existed.  So they're dead in an instant. They don't even know what happens That's that's putting something out of its misery Erasing And remember disintegrating him from the feet down from the feet up rather. Yeah, not even what they'll feel that So that's a fun ending to have. Yeah Yeah, that's someone just beautifully put it. It's a sacrifice. She was willing to make Yep And then in the next movie, they'll just say, oh, well, she put everything right in the end. So it's Well, I mean, I mean in the end of the film, they say she did the right thing and it's like This film is character vomit it makes you just sick Yeah, for those who um in chat who are following our our description of this story only You must be like wait, so the credits next then she's in the mirror Let's let's remind ourselves of what we were told about the mirror dimension by the ancient one One of the most powerful beings and wisest beings on earth Basically the mirror dimension is used to surveil earth It's used to contain threats And you do not want to be in the mirror verse mirror dimension rather without a sling ring because that means you're trapped And uh, this almost happens to kaecilius who's almost as powerful as she is if not the same Not a quick question speaking of the ancient one. Are there is there a multi-versus worth of ancient ones that they could talk to? I imagine Dude if if if you want to like talk about all the people that they could get to help them It's just it's infrared It's literally infinite I think the ancient one would be one of the number one people that you would want to seek out because of um, I guess in this version him or hers knowledge of the multi-verse and its Implications and their their understanding of it. So they would be one of the first people to go to In another if you ended up in another dimension if that was to happen Um, if you found yourself there, but potentially you'd want to explore and find the ancient one equivalent That should be one of the first questions that he asks definitely not morto later on in the movie But I guess you'll get there.  It's not over.   He just he just gets out And you're probably thinking like well, there must be some mechanic to it, right like well She can travel through reflections Yeah Yeah, and and so the way that we see this manifest is they're in this little room in the back Uh, and there are these two guys who are standing on puddles who get dragged in so their bodies will never be recovered They're gone forever. No funeral. No no burial for them. Like they're just standing on the puddles It's like man, you guys weren't standing on those puddles You'd still be alive.  Yeah, what's what's going on? Why is this the puddle room? Why are there puddles?  It's like well what reflects in a significant imagey type of way It's like well a big puddle and it's like all right We get some big puddles in this room and I feel like I'm missing something Does anyone know why there are puddles in this room or is it just no reason at all? There were just puddles there Maybe they just watered the flowers today. I don't know It wasn't raining. It was a sunny day like yeah, but it was raining. No, no It was raining a previous day and then it piles up and it takes a while for it to evaporate. That's just that's training Water magic your buddies It probably would have made more sense to have done that She said she was coming at nightfall didn't she and then see if you had done it at nightfall And then had it rain and when she just damaged parts of the castle with her attacks You have it leak in and then you got your puddles You have yeah, you show you have that as your cutaway to a scene is characters walkoff But the shot lingers on the floor where slowly drips are starting to Create a puddle and then the audience thinks why oh why are you showing me this?   It's like well, she does the whole point in the mirror dimension No, she yeah, she uses puddles to affect the real world It's like man It's like this isn't the mirror dimension that you put her and you put her in something else Because none of this comports with what we've seen of the mirror dimension. Yeah, well, you know responses to that. She's really powerful Yeah, that's yeah, she is okay. I guess she is Um, they're all I don't know very There are reflections in many things your eye has reflections Yeah, you crawl out of your eye. Yes like what I yeah, I guess um, yeah I guess she crawls through the gong and that doesn't look like it's got a very good amount of clear reflection So I guess you can just crawl out of anything that reflects light, which is basically everything She can super do now as well because like all of her bones and stuff are broken, but they heal like she can She's so it's like man. So you're not a really a glass cannon anymore. You're like super duper strong um all right Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that she got shot with a cannon and it didn't matter It didn't do anything Yeah, it's one of the interesting things about the character super powerful glass cannon.  All right. Oh boy. Nice to have you four hours. That's good enough We got through so much of the movie so much of it. That's a lie Uh, yeah, we got through hang on. Okay. I'll get right there.  You'll get there.   I could not believe it.  I didn't want to spend a ton of time on it But I'm like, oh, there is so much wrong with this movie. There is like way more wrong and I I would say Like it is worse than captain marvel, which I kind of has always been like the way. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah Movie I've seen this is way worse in so many ways. Oh, yes. I agree Yeah, and I don't like I don't relish saying this shit Uh, I think rags is opening was like can it really be true that we're saying once again This is like well, what do you want us to do? Look how much we this is taken This is probably the longest ratio we have ever had for time In media versus time taken to talk about the problems of it.   It's it's name damn thing and we just I just watched Moon night, which has probably my favorite line in any marvel thing. Are you an egyptian superhero? Uh, and she says I am uh, I was kind of I'm disappointed. We didn't get are you a Multi-dimensional Puerto Rican LGBTQIA superhero. Uh, we didn't get that him. Well, that's america, right? She's got the badge. Yeah, and she could have said I am and that would have inspired everyone everywhere shame But um, thank you so much for joining us carry Thanks, everyone. Yeah, see you around dude. See you on Bye. Catch you later on the flip side. Take care. Bye That's um, that's gary from neurotic. There's a lot of Media movies tv show he's recently done a lot of reviews of the Picard show If you have an interest in his channel the link is in the description Um, a lot of fun, especially if you're invested in the topics.   It's so funny or also sad because when I first wrote everything down it's like, oh, this got pretty bad Then I talked about it on Retro's watch.  This is awful. What is happening? Oh, I didn't even really have a chance to process it all um in in the theater I was just kind of letting it all come my way and I wasn't Thinking too hard about it. But even in that kind of placid state. I was just like this is wrong. This is wrong This is contrived. This is wrong. This is wrong. This is contrived.  The thing is is that we're real close to something that is like Substantial in terms of an issue that is persistent throughout the movie that we've kind of alluded to that um, yeah But for every one of those we will cover they will be one soon like it'll just Because it doesn't stop. It never ends.  You say that so casually Hey, oh, she crawls out of the gong. Well, what can we say? Yeah The gong according to the film has enough reflection in it that she can crawl out of it Yeah, that's that's all They were definitely trying to evoke like japanese horror when she comes out. Um, you know, yeah, definitely I'm sure people would say like, ah ramy getting his flavor in there once again. I just like, okay Okay, yeah, I don't know that it's just like how did we get here to have this happen as an yeah It's like it's cool and creepy. Sure.  So Uh, you for anyone listen, you might be like, well, wait, where is everybody? What is everyone doing right now? So they're in a room with wong doctor strange in america And she's coming into it and pretty much there were other guys. They got sucked through puddles. We don't care about them So, yeah, you might be like, well, what are they doing? Why why why are they there? Shouldn't they be gone by now? You you mentioned how you know, probably should have pulled them out ages ago But pulling out now is like well This was a a thing for the writers to solve and this is how I presented it on open bar because I kind of enjoy doing this so They've all got sling rings. She's coming They can portal away and get to safety How do you solve that as a writer as a writer? What do you do to prevent them from being able to portal out with scarlet? Which you know when she's in the mirror dimension, what can you possibly do because that's that's when this is quote unquote solved So, uh, I would Well, they they we could go and Because wonder knows about the fling rings first thing first thing she does when she gets into the barrier Just destroys all the fling rings instantly I wouldn't find that satisfying, but I guess you could do that That's like the first idea I came up with My solution is that in order to hold her in the mirror dimension They have to they have to be channeling some kind of a Something some magical force to help to keep her there Which means that as they are doing that they cannot use their sling rings if they if they loosen up For whatever reason she's going to be able to break out of the mirror trap Um, yeah, I think that's that's possible. Have you got anything for any out of curiosity? I don't really I am funnily enough. I don't really have anything. Um, this is a really difficult problem to solve yeah, because First of all to solve it in general is tough But like to do it in a way that I think would be satisfying with what we know about how rules work in this I think it's really tough because the sling ring is just something that doctor strange always has access to There's it's so not limited in terms of It's potential that it's really hard to do anything with it that reduces it And if he is successful if we argue, maybe he does use it. Maybe he does open it up Like how do we delay it's like maybe Uh, you know, maybe maybe maybe someone suggests they should stay behind There's a bit of drama about that to try and stop her. It's like no most people would just go through right like Exactly. So it's just like hmm. All right. Well You know what? Uh, maybe I'll concede this would have been a tough one in the writer's room to think about And maybe you have to rewind the film a bit more To to to you know change some of the mechanics to make this more justified However, this was the problem they faced in the writing room and so she's in the mirror of this She's she doesn't know how she's gonna get out of it. We cut to them and doctor strange says we got to get out of here He pulls up his hand. You can see the sling ring. He starts opening a portal and then it fails and then his sling ring disappears Ooh clever I wish to see chance reaction to this That that makes sense though because if his sling ring magically disappears for some reason he can't Portal away the total sense it all follows logically Why didn't it disappear? Well, so there was a little bit of red special effects on it when it disappeared. So she disappeared it Oh, but I thought she was in the mirror dimension Um, shut up And does you understand the writing process of this film if she can disintegrate the sling ring Why doesn't she just disintegrate doctor strange? We know that she we know she can Yeah, we saw that poor guy get disintegrated. So why doesn't she disintegrate kill him earlier? because of this is the the the inverse square law of What's it returns diminishing returns? But the magic version of it she going disintegrate them once and then Lose your power to do it again after that the audience has already seen that Blame said wong still has one. I'm sure he's got melted because he has to get given a different one layer So, yeah, she just it's it might be one of my like most hated Solutions a writer has come up to a problem ever It just disappears on his hand.  This was planned This was this went through several phases of production.  It disappears. We can't let him have that I'm sorry. It ruins the whole story.  It's like well, that does happen So yeah, she didn't destroy all of them in the area.  We just solved the problem. Maybe Maybe they do go through the portal, but she gets one of the sling rings or she gets someone who's alive and tells them to I I would probably prefer she doesn't know how to do it herself Maybe can we limit her in some way? But if she gets them to open it and then by surprise is there we find out that's mechanically maybe that's the solution That could be a ticking time bomb like that's your that's your ticking clock Right is she has a sling ring. She got it from a corpse. She's sort of aware of what they do She gets trapped in the mirror dimension and it takes her a while to figure it out how to make it work That's your ticking clock. How long is it gonna take for her? Yes, because you know you don't know could it be a day two three We we have no clue. Is she gonna starve or die of thirst? Well, you can have a scene where they've arrived for their portal They conclude she can easily use a sling ring herself or at least get someone else to use one A portal could open any second now with her at it. What do we do? What's the plan? It's like should we split up? A sense of urgency we've got a god forbid we have a sense of urgency in this film But there's your ticking clock boom right there. It's I feel like that's it We've solved a very very difficult problem. You got there We did it and it only took us 10 minutes off the top of our heads and we're doing it for free You then have the problem of wander obtaining teleport as a power I mean, I think the rest of the film should then have to deal with that We'll keep that as a constant Uh, this is the thing we just appreciate Can we just appreciate that they got the the sling ring to disappear and not lift it off the hand with telekinesis An ability that she's had since her first appearance I I feel like was free highlight is funnier. She disintegrates his ring, but not him like What are you doing?  It's fine. Yeah, the next thing that happens is.   It's like no, it was you We all knows you um So then this is where her argument develops He says wonder your children don't exist And then she's like oh, but they do in the other universes. It's like Oh, okay So this kind of goes against what you said earlier We were like your magical nonsense children are just as meaningful as any other children because mothers make their children this way all the time Now you're saying Yes, my ones are fake But there are other ones in other universes that are real Which is like I said very different from what she said earlier, but okay you're saying this now and then um Strange asks her the most obvious and basic question because If you want to argue I just want to see my kids and anyone who prevents me from doing so I will kill I am being reasonable.  Well, yeah, it's it's the thing that you can't the problem is if you acknowledge it The absurdity of the situation becomes impossible to square away. They've which is that of course They aren't your kids. They are another version of you's children A different version of you with a different life experience. We have to tell We have to tell people about this whenever they see Luke Skywalker in a mando show You're like, that's not that's not the Luke Skywalker That's that's some different version of him from a different universe that makes no sense It's not the same one and they're like, why don't they're like, no, no, no It is him and I'll watch every marvel film until I see him again So something I have I have an additional question that I would have asked Wanda, which is Why the fuck are you so intent on killing another version of yourself when you could just find a universe without where the mum yeah with it Yeah, you know correct prevent them ding ding ding ding nobody thinks about that whole movie or the vision thing or the vision or a lot of things now Um, you know what else It's kind of funny because if I were in the room, um, we nobody's going to kill each other and doc strange says like so You're going to kill her I'd be like, dude, look how many people she's killed already like this is getting you know The body counts huge and then Wanda could be like, well, they got in my way I'd be like, yeah, because you can't like send anyone to sleep or anything with mind control You can't you can't do anything that you can't put a big bubble around yourself and just fly to where you need to go You have to kill all these people. You have to disintegrate them.   Did you like it? What he went Yeah, it's part of the spell you have to become the snake make total sense.   Yeah, the cape once again.  Um, and what's probably With mentioning is uh, wong is doing nothing throughout all of this No, he's just standing there watching the snakes. I don't know what the hell he's doing Um, oh, yeah, that's what you were doing just watching the snakes Yeah, that's true. He's the audience in say, okay. Um, um, yeah Snakes dad tosses him then she grabs America and that's when wong decides to do something and then he gets thrown across the room as well. Yeah and then um That's when uh, because then she tries to absorb the powers and then America opens a portal behind her Which I feel is something londa should know By now. Well, she should know that right? Um Well, so this is the thing What is the nature of her sending monsters after people? Does she have a camera? Can she see it with the dark hold? Well, if wait, wait, sorry if she if she uh sends a monster after america and in another universe It has to be able to extract the powers, right? Otherwise, how can the powers be delivered to wander? I wanted to talk about this in the first scene, but I was like, I have to wait I feel like we waited long enough So the idea with these monsters is hopefully that they suck the power from america and they then teleport themselves to wander to be sucked Is that the idea? It has to be otherwise doesn't make any sense at all doesn't like They have to be able to travel the multiverse Because she can't travel the multiverse. So there's no means that she has to get those powers unless they can do it for her Like but how is that a power that they have?  And then how do people know that when they do it that they will have full control while america does all over that? Yeah Okay, what what if there is it what if it isn't an innate attribute of these powers?  No. Yeah. No mo no mind can process this Yeah, except for like some crazy super dude for godlike figure. Yeah Yeah, or if you didn't open the portal in the in the first scene Then we're supposed to assume that spaghetti monster would have yelled at her until A blue light came out of her and went into it He falls and dies and then it's like I have the power now and I know how to use it Open portal. Hey, there's wander walks in and then He goes And then it it falls over and dies and then she's got the power that that has to be her strategy And I have no idea how she knows that any of that would work There's really no reason to think it would right because again america is the only person in the multiverse with this power So there's it would be on it. There would be no evidence or information pertaining to it at all On how how it works that it can even it's a power that can even be transferred between people To be nothing Blaine just suggests it's like I think you'll dreamwalk to that world and take the powers while the demon holds america So all that highlights is that she should just be going personally every time. Why send these monsters if that's possible Well, it's not even about Exactly there's so many reasons why this is so much stupider than just going yourself And by the way, they do they have a throwaway line for that once they establish dreamwalking because I don't know that this film knew it was going to do dreamwalking in the first half when they were making this shit Because um, she does just sort of do it. This it's so awkward when morto explains it, which we're actually getting to soon He explains it and then dr. Strange. No, sorry america's like well, then why didn't she do that before and dr. Strange She goes because she was being reasonable It's like yeah, I'm sorry. That doesn't make any sense. Come on. Why why do you just saying a lie again? Doesn't make it true. It would be more reasonable more merciful and it would be faster Like there's no reason so it's oh so bad But um, yeah, also there you go fringy lucid dreaming in the mcu multiverse is just accidentally dreamwalking So even if you don't have magic and you make no conscious man, that's got to be terrifying. I think you had to have the dreamwalk to do that At any point you need the dark hold to do This is specific. You have to have the dark hold to do that Do you imagine how terrifying that knowledge would be that at any point in time you could lose control of yourself? Because some person is sleeping and they accidentally have no no springy There is an infinite amount of universes, which means that If there's an infinite amount of different versions of you, there's an infinite amount of them that are currently sleeping right now An infinite amount of dreams, which means that it would not be possible for someone to not be Lucid dreaming everything that you do you see this you you say the word infinite and you don't know what it means You're not ready for the implications of this Well, there's an infinite number There's an infinite a number of mcu universes, right? Like where there is this dr. Strange who has had this exact history and everything with Thanos Maybe that's what sleepwalking is but you know that that sleepwalking is where Someone goes into your dream while you are dreaming so it takes over your body and you kind of swap places This is this is going places this this analogy this this joke of mine And there's never like I don't think there's ever any understanding you can have multiverses, but you can say we don't know how many there are Yeah, we don't know if there's just another multiverse There's just another or if there's a hundred more or a million more or there's just an infinite amount It's just this uncountable expanse of multiverses that extends forever. We don't know all that we know is that there are other universes different from ours And then you don't have to worry about making such definitive non-definitive statements Well, there's a reason dc started to structure their multiverse after a while like for for a little bit There were only 52 earths in their multiverse.  There's 52 Maybe a couple of extras in there if we're feeling frisky, but otherwise 52. That's your lot. We're not going to deal with infinity.  Best faith interpretation is she zaps it with a fireball and it it makes it so the cloak can no longer do fly Yeah, um now Oh, do you have something? so She's sapping the power from chavez and then sees dr. Strange is heading to tackle her so First obvious move is just pull america away from him. No, just pull america away from him.  Yeah now So remember she has no control over opening the portals like in terms of seemingly location or The universe itself like the properties of that universe So like man real lucky that none of those portals opened up to the vacuum of space That's one you've got to save until we get to nearly the the end of the film Uh, no, I don't think so because it's like the movie If you're not gonna bring in that reference then yeah, he's making all your criticisms inert Oh, yeah, right.  They have including one where they made a paint. Yeah They land in a place and in a Put in a universe that is comprehensible to them that is very similar to our own New York in New York a couple places that just the astronomical unfathomable Fortunetness Wow, I guess you can't talk about that. Yeah, I don't know why There will be people who listen to this would be like so rags didn't watch the film then It's like we got to wait until we get to that bit of information then we can uh, oh, yeah, that's right There's got to go away. We'll come back and talk about it later. Yeah for now Portals are opening and they're ending up in places that aren't death. So that's good. We'll talk about that later. Uh So strange is pretty angry. He's like my my Cloak is fucked. We got to go back open a portal And america's already explained this to him by the way. She does earlier in the film But she has to explain again.  I have to save wong And she's like, well, I can't do anything so So good and then he he's sort of good does like well, I guess I couldn't really help him anyway Like and that oh an all sense of urgency pertaining to getting back to come attached to save one To save wong and the students is gone for the rest of the film Uh, really sad Yeah They are just chilling. Just can now maybe maybe maybe you're out there thinking well, he's right He really can't do anything to her and if anything it's bad if he gets to it in any way Capacity with america because you know if wander gets america, it's all over. It's like well Let's go through where they are exactly They they talk about how they've entered this this alternate new york city and that um, they need Get access to help of some kind Maybe they have to get that book of ashanti.  And then they both realize well, wait What if this universe is strange knows about it? Oh, let's go find him now That book means that they can defeat wander As it's described it gives the sorcerer whatever spell they require to defeat whatever enemy they're uh dealing with So This book means she can he can save wong and the sorcerers You might think That alone then is enough to make him incredibly urgent, right? Because for every second you don't get to that book is a second more for them getting killed and tortured So, um, so you got to be running. You got to be running everywhere. Yeah Disappear when you can't see her It's not how They seem to think it that's another weird thing from what we can understand all the multiverses are running in real time at similar Timelines. I was about to ask if that was yeah are all the multiverses synchronized time wise I think we have to assume that the answer is yes Because of course we'll be open if you travel to a time where they you know Don't have a doctor strange yet because he's still a baby or something or in the future But it's like well no it does seem a relative it I think this movie would fall apart even more if it weren't that way. So I guess we're supposed to think it is that way Also, are we talking about have we talked about the portals that like all the glimpses of different universes? Um that uh, we saw are we going to do that later? Uh, what depends on what you want to say about it? Oh, well, I just wanted to kind of highlight that this film is called the multiverse of madness And we're teased with like universes with different geometry a cartoon universe a paint universe all of these different really creative concepts and Yet all we really do in this film is just dick around and maybe three universes including the mainstream one And I'm just I want to highlight that it's just a sheer lack of creativity Um on the part of the writers is that we have you have a you are you're advertising A movie called multiverse of madness implying this is going to be like a We're going to be going from one universe to another and we're going to be exploring all kinds of different creative things, but yep We we get like a little teaser reel for like 10 seconds And then we just stuck In that one other universe To jump in and bolster your point because I've seen a lot of people on the internet like wow So like people don't like this movie because they because it's not like marvel movies with teasers and stuff It's like it's not about teasers It's about leveraging the potential of different universes where things don't work quite the same way To do some really creative and clever stuff like I don't need references like spider-man 2099 or whatever Or like any of these universes that pull directly from the comics It could just be a matter of you end up in a universe that's still medieval times And you need to try and your existence in this universe like that's probably adventure Yeah to to actually because because that's something that America says later like the clearest example that we have of Leveraging that we're in universes where things don't quite work the same way Is that a stop sign and a go sign for a pedestrian is the colors are opposite Red means go and blue and green means stay like that's that's like the extensive leveraging. Yeah, like there's some of the universes There's some neat aesthetic stuff like the plants and stuff, but like I But that's but that's all you did. It's it's like I can't remember as euro meme said it. It's very comprehensible There's nothing here that's very All right, I would also Universe where it's so similar to ours that we could just oh, yeah, this is new york We just walked down the street And we can talk to everybody Yeah, there's just no issues I'm also not a fan of the red green thing because it it's not the kind of change I find Intriguing it doesn't seem intuitive at all. It's like Yeah, I mean especially you live in a universe you live in a universe where there are plants all over the buildings So if anything you guys should be hyper into green being the good color Exactly, that's one of the reasons why it's not impossible. I just it doesn't feel like it just seems like oh You did that just to be like red is green green is red lol Yeah, it's it's like a token. We're not on kansas anymore kind of thing You know, we're not actually meaningfully doing it because imagine if they went to an earth where there were a bunch of aliens on it You know, there's just aliens walking around like earth is very much integrated Leverage the multiverse not for the sake of cameos and teasers and stuff But more so just leveraging universes where things just aren't quite like where things are meaningfully different And it causes challenges beyond don't walk on green because green is bad in this universe like for stop signs you know It's weird. Uh, and it's yeah, absolutely right that they just don't take advantage of Uh, the situation we've got here, but the setting of the film. Yeah, it really feels squandered Yeah, and with what they do Absolutely terrible speaking of which like we just we cut the It's not even like a normal walk. It is a very slow walk Yeah, I think it's a troll He in uh america and they're gawking at the world. They're like he's looking around at the whole world like Whoa, look at this and i'm i'm just so like dude People are dying You're you know the all of this this world needs you Is if you need this motivation on top of the fact that all of his friends are dying We know that she can find america through the multiverse no matter what and she always sends monsters after the We know they know that that's the potential and yet we're strolling through a city Highly populated city knowing that a fucking gargantos could drop it on us at any point I'm not knowing if there are even any other heroes necessarily The problem is they don't behave as though that's the reality even though this film has told us that's the reality Well, yeah, this is one of those examples of you don't realize what you've done You are telling me something about these characters with every action that they take including A lack of urgency in a situation that demands urgency where other people are in trouble all that Like the only takeaway from that is dr. Strange doesn't care that much About all of the people who are getting killed and here's something that's worth thinking about as well I guess it might be jumping the gun a little bit might it be interesting to have america be like damn All of those people died like because of me and then dr. Strange is like no it's not because of you It's not because of you Like so that you can give her that element of her character to lead towards the art that they wanted to tell with her Which i guess we'll jump to like have a conversation, you know a meaningful conversation It was one of the it was one of the things that i was talking to moller about the other night After we were just sort of chatting about what we had just experienced um america shaves as a character seems There is never a moment. I almost said this is like the inverse infinity war, right? Where it talks about the Being willing to sacrifice things for a greater good being able to let go of what you love so you can stop So you know that that's an aspect of infinity war And this film Should be doing that to an even greater degree considering what the stakes are But there is in the stakes all revolve around One person's power which is connected to her life. So essentially one person's life There is never a recognition in this movie that This character understands the the the massive weight The the amount of lives the the uncountable amount of lives and universes that are at stake if a person gets her power She doesn't seem to grapple with this or deal with this she never Well, even then it's like there's never this yeah, I guess at the end, which is why it seems so weird How how what do you have to go through and see and witness until you say i need you to kill me I can't live Like it's not worth it. I need to You need to kill me right now because if they get me if Wanda gets me everything is over There's never that there's not even the thought of it There's not even that question that she asked to strange Or or well, they throw it in right at the end. So Yeah, but they don't even throw it in the way that you're talking about it. They just throw in exactly Yeah, it's she just sort of like we we skip all of these steps along the way because I think a lot of people if you told them that The so you have some innate ability that is tied to your life And if one person finds you who's constantly trying to get you who is very Very closely almost gotten you like twice three times now You were like we were on the brink of the destruction of the multiverse three times.   What will we be so lucky the next time this happens? Is my life worth all of this and we never have that conversation No one even brings it up to discuss and if anything the film kind of says Like the the inverse is better That it's not virtuous to sacrifice yourself in a way I like the idea as well on top of The nature of their mission takes them through all these different worlds filled with so many different cultures and Living people and friendly people so that you just get to more and more understanding of how much is at stake And that maybe maybe that's her arc is just coming to but I mean That's what they think her arc is in part But it's like you really didn't have a lot of supporting material to prop it up But like that that's her arc is kind of understanding the gravity of like I guess life in general right and the the reality of like her status And maybe that's like if she does survive the film which of course She invariably does that like she becomes very dedicated to understanding her powers so well That she can continue to exist But use those powers for good and you know protect herself and then protect the multiverse That like that's the arc that she goes on Oh, and yeah, we we did move past it sort of the line being said. I just don't know what we can say about it He says why can't we just find you in this universe and have you use the power and then she says I am the only me in all of the multiverse Yeah, I guess we just we just accept that that's just that's how I guess we have to for now, right? Nothing else Makes sense That means that she just she's Well, where does she exist? Does she exist beyond time and space? No, let's put it this way right She she's in the world with with Loki and then he makes a decision to Bling off or not like so he's split the world into two directions in his Two individual america shaves is correct Yeah, like how yeah, I get what you mean like anyone else splitting it will duplicate her by necessity If that well, especially since that's loki establishes That's the nature of creating multiverses is choices people make The cause deviation so as long as she exists in the universe, right? It's always possible So I mean also if you travel to only 72 universes, I guess it's because she says she doesn't dream That's the dream. Yeah, that's what I was about to bring that up. That's her ever done How sad That's how michael jackson died. He was taking drugs that stopped him from dreaming Because you can actually suffer from dream deprivation because the brain needs to dream in order to just flush out That's kind of it's kind of the problem with like having dreams be a mechanic is like would dreams exist in reality and Like they are a biological process Um, of course, there's a lot we don't understand about dreams, but like, you know our brains cause them, right? So Yeah It is a yeah, I guess there was this not only how would she Let's say you went to 72 universes. How do you find one person who doesn't seem to be Institution or locations or correct like it's kind of funny actually that he's like Why don't we just find you in this universe just like have you actually asked her not before this? Why it is that she's getting chased and not any other one? Yeah, right? I guess that question Yeah, if there's another america Well, I was like well that america is just like she's got I I've blown my cover on that one essentially They got all those people trying to stop me. I'm just going to go pick up another america with the powers and Grabbed them that should be easy, but I'll go myself instead of the monster idea. I don't know what I was thinking Yeah, I guess wonder knows That she's the only one too and and strange didn't think to ask about that at any point nor did america think to bring it up Kind of weird It almost feels like it might have been something they wrote in later when they were making this you're like, wait a bit It they can't be more than one of there.  You know like well damn I guess you are the are you the only one because you look like the person or I don't know I don't know with the world building as it's set up here the Like the only way They could even do anything close to this and it would still have a bunch of problems would be If she was the only one who had these specific powers because at least you could have a be that it's I don't know some kind of mold her powers are like a multiversal energy that somehow found that specific version, but only but it You know what I you know what I mean is it's it it would be something a bit more mystical lore cosmic rather than just her specifically being um unique within the multiverse which I still don't really understand how that works Yeah, I don't know how she even it comes to be unique doesn't Count for all of her. I don't know. I guess universe where she comes from or something I guess we'll just have to like eventually find out I suppose the problem is that Like you can kick that down the road if you want, but I mean Like she is an incredibly important part of the plot of this story. It all hinges on on her and her abilities Like you kind of need to answer these questions for there to be a clearer understanding of what's going on And we don't even get into Why how did you come into existence? Have you always existed forever? Have did you just it's an interesting one She's always existed. How does that work when there were no other universes? Yeah After Loki like Loki happened and then she Existed but why and how and where and then how would it be that because like somebody in chat said like maybe that explains What there's only one of her it's like, well, no, that would just be there should be loads of her as soon as the multiverse is allowed, right? Is yeah, is there a natural aspect that's baked into the quote-unquote fabric of every universe that it Eventually produces some being that is capable of this or Is there an even greater power that I know it's done But they'll they'll they're willing to do that at whenever they want Is there some even greater entity that brings her into existence to serve Some purpose that for whatever other reason couldn't have been done a different way Is she a nexus being like wonder it's like well as it turns out. There's a lot of wonders Well, I don't know what that means to be a nexus being with you're the only one But I mean there's definitely more wonders and not only are there more wonders But the wonder that we see has the abilities like she has wonders abilities I guess she's not as powerful She's not the scarlet witch quote-unquote she hasn't gotten the fucking hat I guess I mean, but she still is right or like she at least has those powers so Presumably, you know what turns it from normal into scarlet witch in the bond division I I don't think anything does she like just always was and she just didn't understand it or something Right. Well, yeah, that means that she can't be a nexus be if that means the only one I don't understand how how would she be the only one? How do you have only ones of anything in this world in an infinity? Yeah, and infinite universe To further explain the thing I was mentioning about like Loki is just like that guy who goes to to work late We have the the the true timeline according to tva and then the the offshoot Now she has to exist in both of them because you can't pluck out everything She'd done in one of them to then move her to only being in one. Do you know what I mean? That doesn't that can't make any fucking sense because He's late to work and then he goes to work late and and they're like, oh god She can't exist in more than one universe So now she's only in the main timeline one and you're like, yeah, but the one where he just went to work late She has to be erased from all of it if she's done anything and then that just turns into a different timeline again Like telling me she's a nexus being there for she's only one of her is like that's not anything That's like saying she's immune to being killed because she's immune to being killed. He's like what? So the whole idea of this nexus Being can only really work in a finite multiverse where there's a set number and they're not just constantly spawning That would make more that would work more so but I imagine there'd still be a lot to think about, you know Perhaps a lot of people I'm ever you're comparing it against Loki and I'm like, well, but the person who wrote this wrote Well, the guy who wrote this wrote Loki and Loki is canon. So I have to you know Yep So yeah, that's well Before you go any further.  So we are Quite literally Barely a third of the way through the film Um, I think you might stop with a halfway point Well, I mean, I think it's I was kind of joking, but I think this is a reasonable question We are near five hours rags has to go and that means rags is going to miss out on talking about The actual craziest shit in this film Yeah, because I I do kind of want to talk about this movie because it's so That's it insane. Um Well, so maybe you do a I don't know. I guess we can discuss later. Well, I was going to say this would for the chat This would be good news and bad news good news would be the Theoretically with this new plan rags would be around for uh The rest of the discussion, but the bad news would mean that we'll probably end the stream here Yeah What maybe well, what about super chats? Well, uh Again, like if we're gonna wait until rags comes back We may as well just Maybe do it on wednesday or as part of the next Lead them off on wednesday or something So, uh, we can come up with something we've got options Well, I'm thinking about the schedule and it's like if we do part two of doctor strange next week That means moon night will have to be moved after halo because Halo's Tell you what, um, I I I really actually do have to go right now So I will bid you farewell. Whatever you decide on doing I will see you later chat. Thanks for showing up and listening to us I will catch all of you at a later time or Maybe we could get a multiverse version of me And see how they fare and hopefully they're not better than me because that would be embarrassing But I will I will see you later on. Goodbye. Yeah, I got you dude. Goodbye We'll see you Um, because it means we can get gary back theoretically too Right That is true If we're only a third of the you know, like we still got a lot that we'll need to talk about because But the reality is to be clear as well chat I I think it might be lopsided towards the latter end because there's stuff that we're not talking about yet That become that we we need more of the film laid out So like I don't know that it's necessarily going to be shorter In terms of how we talk about the next I was gonna say the problem here is we could with rags gone go through until we hit the end Of the movie the only problem is without two of the people who are part of this conversation You're not going to get any of gary's thoughts or rags thoughts about a lot of it Um, yeah, it's four people bouncing off each other, which by the way, I'm sure we can entertain you I'm sure we can provide possibly some insights. Maybe but um, I just I just wonder if uh Why miss out on the potential um because we can only do this once really because you want to watch it now Yeah, like um, I mean this has been five hours. Hopefully those who are very invested in um In listening to this film being broken down have been quite satisfied with how we've gone over like the first 35 40 minutes in this level of detail. I hope that it's been as engaging as you would want it to be Um, and it gives more people more time to decide if they want it to be spoiled or not It gives more like and I think It seems like people are pretty engaged um So, you know, um, some people are still suggesting super chat. I would prefer uh, I I I'm Relatively okay with the idea that rags misses a couple of them And then we keep the ones that relevant to him But like an entire stream's worth of of of them I would rather just wait until he's available again than we do Because of course I could just do it as though I stream and answer them all and then I just grab the ones for Bringing rags, but we I do my best to try and have them in at the same time um Which means it seems like the best decision probably is to do part two next saturday Um Yeah It gives everybody a Nice a night in terms of being able to do life things too because uh Obviously we've been here for five hours. That is long for normal people You know just yeah, and um, and I mean hey if you guys uh If you're like men, but I still got some long in me I still got some long That I need to to get tonight. Um I made a video called adventures endgame is terrible. It's two hours long So, I mean that'll bring you up to like the average length of an e-fap episode And it's good to see that Because it leads right into this movie in a in a sense, you know in a in a weird in a weirdly poetic sense It does considering that it was entirely incidental that the the video was done by the time that um By the time that uh, this this movie came out Um But yeah, I think I think that works out the best and so I will say um Meme you want to tell people what you're up to real quick? What's what's happening with you if anything? Uh, sure. I don't have really much new to report. Um since last week just um, yeah keep it on keep it on um Got some idea. I'm just trying to figure out because I I am trying to figure out an entirely new routine Thanks to certain Recent life changes. So that's just throwing me through a bit of a loop, but I'm hoping um Very shortly. I'm going to be right back into the swing of uh working on things and uh Just giving you all content on both the moola channel and my own channel It's going to be going to be fun. So I kind of want to make I did uh Metals for john super members of the elite and that really made me appreciate how well written that film is and uh large part Yeah, so a large part of me wants to just make a video praising the writing in that film So we'll see what happens there. I already have a bunch of notes on it. So We'll see how we go Uh, what about you metal? Yeah Me well if you want the the the conclusion of my thoughts Of uh, I was at wonder vision of the madness tisms Uh, I covered it already on my own on my lonesome on metal sport a couple of days ago That's that's already out there. So if you want to watch that that's also only half as Long as the stream, uh, yeah Because this is going to be much more in depth. But yeah, I did that did that so you can go watch that There's going to there's many more metal sport just I did one on the north man.  Um Yeah, metal sports like right, sorry You did one on ex machina right with uh, right with ex machina with muesli That was yeah, I did like three and like five days or something because I was behind on one more Uh, so yeah, I can all watch those uh Actually meme is going to be on next week Under the red hood i'm going to check that out because I I remember that being pretty good But this time i'm going to look at it critically and evily And bad fate. No, i'm just kidding. Uh, but yeah, this is uh Yeah, metal sports like my my main My main thing right now. That's definitely what i'm doing. I'm still chopping away on that item run Super cut from my stream Um Yeah, not so just streams in general should be picking up a bit more now that not 17 movies come out that I wanted to watch so That's gonna come back as well. And I think that is all Go check it out. It's good tisms. I would say what about you fringy, but as was just mentioned um end game Yeah, that's that's out now. Uh, and also Thanks for all the kind words about it. That's that's very nice um When you work on a big project for a long time, it becomes difficult to uh You know, it kind of becomes difficult to gauge. I guess uh a general like how you think people are going to respond to it Whether people will find it worthwhile or interesting or entertaining Um, so it's definitely definitely happy with the response. It's been it's been very nice as for what's next I haven't decided yet. I got some ideas though um Yeah, that's all that's all I got right now. Anyway, I'd be working away on that same project I've been working on for a little while. Uh, as I said to you guys that'll be Not necessarily paused but delayed by kanobi coverage that comes out um, that's literally going to be the update for me for a while Takes a while same for me as well basically. Yeah, um Yeah, thank you so much for joining us and for watching. What we'll do is uh the coming Wednesday We'll read all of today's super chats with myself Rags and free and we'll cover the um The previous catch-ups Super chats will get those two done in that block. Um And if we managed to get a few offline ones done, we may very well get to the point where we fully caught up and then um The the the next Saturday we'll just do the second half of this Assuming we're not having an arcane situation here Hopefully not. I don't want to spend four weeks. I hope not. I'm I'm I'm not there for the third week I can't miss that one and then You'll get halo the following week I'll build guests. I shall not tell you what guests, but it should be an interesting stream And then the thing with we following that will do moon night Uh that show that totally everybody really loved and watched and definitely It will definitely be discussed in over a week's time I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion still on that show and in a week Even in a week People talking about you know how cool that moon night episode was Yeah, that was a really cool show. I have sure to expect it to dominate discourse for even a little while longer Uh thank you all so much for uh Chatting with us to donate and and for uh for checking out this stream If there's anybody who maybe is new I could always imagine that maybe a Topical topic if I dare say Might bring in some new people and they must be so horrified to listen to people talk about Like the decision to throw a magical ball at something for 10 hours. Well It matters, okay We also talk about all the other things so I assume it wasn't that painful If you're still here, I don't know regardless It'll get picked up Next week, uh with the last thing we talked about basically being that they um All the red green lights They're about to bump into um Uh cambell memory I have I have good and bad things to say about that moment We will have to wait until next week however And I'll um like I said, I'll hopefully try and get uh Gary back on if he's available No, that's all right too because it can be a bit trying to talk about a movie We usually do that as like a meme this one. It will happen like it will happen one movie. That's too much to talk about And um, yeah So if anybody's feeling like unconvinced that this could possibly be considered one of the worst in the mcu I would say we haven't even gone through the biggest arguments yet. Uh And yet we've gone through like a million arguments. So it's it's this it's in it's in trouble This we want this movie already, but hopefully I can pull it together in that last two thirds, right guys Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's gonna be super good. I swear Woo-hoo. Oh, yeah, we didn't even get to the free food line. We're yeah, it's all covered up All covered up. All right. Thank you. It's in ball form so much Watching and we I'll see you on uh on wednesday, bro Bye. Bye. Bye. I'll see you later


So that makes it a very, very dangerous kind of moment because war could break out all these provocations in the South China Sea and around Taiwan and all this stuff, all the hateful rhetoric that gets directed about China. You know, it creates a situation where, you know, as Chairman Mao used to say in a very different way, a single spark can start a prairie fire if you're at that level of intense confrontation and intense militarization, even if it's only largely on one side. Minor event can trigger things that lead to a maximalist global conflagration. It's a super dangerous strategy. And again, there's Kurt Campbell right at the heart of that, you know, the Center for New American Security, his time at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. All of these have been efforts on his part to articulate a rationale, a justification for these policies that doesn't take seriously the kind of existential threat that they pose.


In this video, I will be sharing the top reviews of the book called, Vortex. Authored by Catherine Coulter, who is an American author of romantic suspense thrillers and historical romances. She has written over 50 books and has had 42 consecutive New York Times bestsellers since 1988. Her thriller The Maze was her first book to place on the New York Times hardcover bestseller list, while the co-spent nine weeks on the New York Times paperback bestseller list and sold over one million copies. But before we get to the reviews let's see a little bit of what this book is about. Seven years ago, Mia Briscoe was at a frat party with her best friend Serena when a fire broke out. Everyone was accounted for except Serena. She was never heard from or seen again. Now Mia as an investigative journalist covering the political scene in New York City, but she hasn't given up trying to find out what happened to her friend that night. When an old photo taken at the frat party gives her clues, Mia realizes she knows just where to look. She enlists FBI agent Sherlock's help to uncover a sinister string of events going all the way back to that disastrous party. But some very powerful, and very dangerous, people will do anything to keep the past buried. CIA operative Olivia Hildebrandt is a team leader on a mission in Iran to exfiltrate a betrayed undercover operative. She's nearly killed by an exploding grenade and saved by a team member. After leaving Walter Reed Hospital, not only has that team member disappeared but two men come to her house to kill her. Savage believes their attack on Olivia as a direct result of the compromised mission in Iran. What intelligence was at stake? Who betrayed them? Savage quickly finds he is now a target himself and unseen enemies will stop at nothing, including murder. Now let's get to the reviews. Anita from California says wonderful suspense with plots heading in all kinds of different directions, at least at first. You have a cold case, a CIA matter and a rich entitled candidate for mayor of New York City. Ev, I forgot the psychopath murderer. That should be more than enough to satisfy even the most demanding mystery, suspense reader. Savage and Sherlock have their hands full, but they have some really great help. Mia Briscoe's best friend went missing from a frat party over seven years ago. As an investigative journalist, it has bothered Mia that Serena disappeared without a trace. Another friend who was there that night discover some old photos and sends them to Mia. This is just what Mia needed to jumpstart this cold case investigation. When Sherlock is asked to help, that is just what Mia needs to unravel what happened to her friend. But, digging into the past is not something certain powerful people want and what is uncovered could be very dangerous for Mia. As a CIA operative Olivia Hildebrandt has been on many missions, some good, some not so good. When she and her team are sent to extract an agent who was undercover in Iran's military, this turned out to be a not so good operation. Olivia is injured and a teammate has gone missing with vital intel. Then, after returning home, Olivia is attacked and it all points to a CIA mole. Savage is involved and in his efforts to keep Olivia safe, places himself directly in danger too. Carolyn from Penslevania says it is no secret that I am a huge fan of Catherine Coulter's FBI series. Huge. And, this was the one series my mom always hounded me about. Is the new one out yet? It is always a long year wait in between books. And, as always, when said new book is published, I devour it in one day. And, once again, we have another suspenseful, white knuckle, edge of your seat ride. I just love Savage and Sherlock. Looks like I will be going through my home library, once again, to reread a few past books. I hate to leave two of my favorite characters for another year. Another winner, Ms. Coulter. Joanne from the United States says first I would like to thank Harper Collins publishing for an arc of this book. The book I received was an uncorrected copy, which threw me for a loop, as I am a former English teacher in another life. Was not used to seeing so many grammatical errors when I read, but that's not why we are here. Coulter is one of my favorite authors and I am very familiar with this series. Loved that Sherlock and Savage were on separate roads this time. Both stories were exciting and the plots were well delivered. Some readers may not care for that tact, but, to each their own. This story was well done and I highly recommend it for other cat-coulter addicts. Val from the United States says it's been a while since I've settled into a police procedural, so this read was a welcome reminder of why they are so popular. This book follows an FBI couple, Sherlock and Savage, into three separate investigations. One dealing with terrorism in a mole, one dealing with a real estate mogul and her third dead husband and the last dealing with a seven-year-old missing person investigation. The investigations are explored simultaneously through different narrators. CIA operative and team leader, Olivia, returns from a failed mission only to seemingly be a target. Her team rallies beside her to uncover the mystery surrounding one of their own. Savage lends his FBI expertise to help Olivia find her teammate and uncover the mole. Meanwhile, investigative reporter, Mia, gets assigned to a story involving an up-and-coming political player and his mayoral candidacy. The disappearance of her college best friend is never far from her mind. Frustrated by the lack of a suspect, a body enclosure in her friend's death, she channels that energy into her job. Pieces start to come into view that brings her friend's unsolved disappearance back into the limelight. She is determined to find out what happened to her friend, why, and who caused it. Sherlock comes beside Mia to lend her expertise and intuition to her search for answers. This book had just enough fact-gathering, secrets, suspicions and twists to make the pages turn quickly. In true Coulter fashion, the book was engaging in the ending, although not a shock, was very satisfying. Another winner from this 25th book in the series. Easily read as a standalone too. Lori from Kansas says vortex by Catherine Coulter is a highly recommended thriller and the 25th book in the FBI series. Mia Briscoe's best friend, Serena, disappeared seven years ago when the two attended a frat party where a fire broke out. Nothing was ever discovered about her disappearance. Now an investigative journalist covering the political scene Mia still wonders what happened to her friend. When a friend discovers some old photos on a phone that were taken at the party she gives them to Mia to see if they could provide any clues about what happened that night. She quickly identifies the suspects in Serena's disappearance and with the help of FBI agents, Tommy Maitland, Serena's boyfriend, and Lacey Sherlock much more as uncovered. At the same time, there is another case going on. FBI agent husband, Dylan Savich, Lacey's husband, is looking into an attack on CIA agent Olivia Hildebrandt. She killed one of the two men who attacked her. The attack is likely related to her last mission and almost certainly linked to the disappearance of CIA agent Mike Kingman, who is in hiding with a flash drive he got from an operative in Iran. Savich has to moves Olivia to a safe house, protect her CIA interference, and uncover the conspiracy going on. The dual plots work, but it can be confusing remembering and keeping every character straight in the beginning for those new to the series or from someone who has not read every book in the series. As the narrative switches between storylines in each chapter, readers can figure out who is trustworthy and work on keeping track of everyone until they become better acquainted with all the characters. After a powerful opening followed by a slower start introducing the cases, the novel quickly becomes a fast-paced read and both storylines have plenty of twists to keep your attention. Mia does figure out in too large a coincidence who are the suspects in Serena's disappearance in the first third of the novel. Fans of the series will already know the agents, although character development will feel light for a newcomer to the series. You can appreciate the novel without reading previous books in the series as long as you realize you might not understand the complete history of everyone right away. The slow start serves to provide much of the needed background in order to better appreciate the plot. I have provided the sources of this video in the description, please feel free to check them out. Thank you for watching this video, if you like this video then please subscribe to the channel and share this video.