Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to my conversation with Sadguru. He doesn't really need much of an introduction. This country and the international community know him well. He's a mystic, a visionary, humanitarian, a yogi. And he has a really fascinating outlook on how spirituality can help business, the economy. And we're really hoping to tap into that today. As a journalist, I travel to some of the world's hotspots and I continue to see death and destruction on a daily basis. And it's my job to bring that to your living rooms. But I also see the spirit of humanity. The human spirit is an incredible thing. And you can also see in these communities that one person can make a huge amount of change. So in my conversation with Sadguru, we're going to talk about these things. How you as individuals can make change and what our responsibility is individually, collectively and as a society. Really great to talk to you, Sadguru. Let's talk about firstly this concept of inclusive economies that you coined some 12 years ago. You took the idea to Davos. If you can briefly first tell me what you mean by it. Say Namaskaram to everyone. When you run a business, whether you make safety pins or computers or cars, somewhere the fundamental intention is you want to sell your safety pin to just all the 7.3 billion people. You're not thinking, I want two billion people to use my safety pin, others can use whatever they want. You want all the 7.3 billion people to use your safety pin. So this you can approach it either as a conquest or as an inclusion. If you approach it as a conquest, then the very process of what you're doing will be destructive in many ways, both for yourself and to the people and to the general ecology and the situation. But if we do it as an inclusive process, not just conceptually, but in activity, in actual work that we do. There are many ways you could include people in making those safety pins, where your production and your marketplace could be just about the same. If you do not include everybody, your business is not really matured in real sense. Whether you will get to sell it to all the 7.3 billion people or not is another matter. Somebody else may be also doing the same thing, but your intent is to include everybody into what you're doing. Now, if you want everybody to have it, not because you want to somehow sell something, because you want to contribute to their lives by giving the best that you can give, naturally businesses will grow. But the most important thing is people get included into the process. When this inclusiveness happens, you will see you sit on a very stable and safe platform for your business. Because these days businesses are growing larger than nations. In their budgets, many businesses have become larger than many other nations. When you have such a large investment and at stake, so many things, a nation has an army, a nation has various other instruments to protect itself. A business doesn't have these instruments. Its only safety is how much people want it. The safety of your business depends on how much people are loyal to what you're doing. If you build that loyalty and that inclusiveness from people around the world, then you are sitting on a safe platform. When you are sitting on a secure platform like that, you will have many opportunities to innovate, do many things because now creativity flows from variety of places. I'm just saying, suppose you're selling a safety pin, I'm sticking to the safety pin as the most basic product. If you just give out a call across the world to your customers, please design a new kind of safety pin if it's possible. For all you know, you may get thousand different designs free of cost. Like this, we can do many things. I don't want to go into the detail of how each business can be run, but businesses should start looking how to make it more inclusive. Rather than approaching, you know, when I was first at the Economic Forum, I tried to change this terminology. People were referring to India as an emerging market. I said, don't call us a marketplace, we're people. If you see a human being as a human being and you see how to contribute to that human being's life, that human being will become yours in many ways. I mean, you think this way and you have reached a mystical level where you can approach these things in a humane way. But the fact remains that the bulk of the global wealth is in the hands of a handful of people. I mean, just in a session previously to this one, they spoke about 70% of India's wealth is in the hands of 10% of the people here. 50% of the country's wealth is in the hands of 1%. So it's all good and well to ask a big business to be more inclusive and be more humane in their approach. But it's actually on the grassroots level, it's not necessarily happening. So when they say wealth, they are thinking in terms of stocks and shares and stuff. That's fine. You don't expect everybody in the country to own that, all right? The important thing is everybody in the country and in the world should be able to fulfill their fundamental needs and their well-being. If we see how to facilitate this, instead of seeing them as marketplace, if you see them as human beings and see how to facilitate this, instead of manufacturing what you want and try to sell it to them, if you manufacture what they want, what they need in their lives, it would become very inclusive. We prepared an elaborate system of how this could be done for a variety of industries. Has it become more inclusive than before in the last ten, twelve years? I would say yes to some extent, not to the extent that we would want, but definitely it's a little more inclusive. And you can see this just now, I've been on a 30-day ride across the country. I've been driving from Kanyakumari to the foothills of Himalayas. As I see India, I've done this many times earlier on a motorcycle, later on driving around. The last time I did was about nine years ago. Nine years ago, how India was. Nine years ago, what people's condition was. What it is today is phenomenally different. At least 80% of the roads that I drove on this time is as good as anywhere in the world, really. Only one thing is the road is good once in a way on odd guys coming on the wrong side. I think he's an American guy. I mean, you're right. And we often report internationally about India's growing middle class and that people are becoming more affluent. But equally, do you think in a technological age, it's also creating resentment in this country as well, where you can see that someone has the latest iPhone, for example, or they have the best job. They have more access to information now that perhaps it's creating more of a resentment, especially with this current generation. The resentment could be there in certain segments of society or in certain people, individual people will be resentful for so many things. Within a family of four or five, one person will be resentful about somebody else within the family. So unfortunately, human beings are still like that. But I don't believe your resentment is rising. Aspirations are rising. I don't think resentment is rising. It is just that, as we were talking, every small thing is reported. Every small thing comes into your sitting room. So it looks like everything is going up. But believe me, the world is more peaceful than it ever was in the history of humanity. And the number of people, the populations have multiplied, but still our violence is not multiplied. Still there are things which must end. That's a different matter.  We do. I mean, because people have access to so much information, death and destruction has always existed. In fact, less so now, I would say, but because we are able to instantaneously give people that information, they see it immediately. At the same time, there are so many tools or technologies to express your resentment. The moment you feel something, immediately you're on the Facebook. If it was 25 years ago, by the time you walked home, it would be gone. But before you go home, you already texted a thousand people and they said so many things and by the time you go home, this resentment has multiplied into ten thousand people. So which was not so earlier. You got upset about something you had physical activity to do. By the time you walked home or reached your workplace, normally it would be gone. But today you try to express it. But at the same time, what I see is, I'm seeing one thing among the kids, because they're so exposed to so many things, which we were not exposed to when we were children. There's a kind of a wisdom about them also. They're able to take these things with a certain kind of a dispassion about a lot of things. We grew up at a time where always people around me and myself, we were always talking about a revolution, the times of, say, you know. But not today. Today people are talking about their aspirations. They're not thinking of large scale disruption of present situations to achieve something. They're seeing how to exploit the present situation to fulfill their aspirations. In our time, we did not think of our own self-aspirations. We thought everything, the whole system has to change. This has to happen. That has to happen. I see from that hotheadedness that we were as youth, today I think they're a little cool and I think the terminology has changed. See when we were young, if something was really good, we said, oh, it's hot. Now they're saying it's cool. But I mean, we are seeing fractures globally in the international community. I mean, there's been so much discussion around the election of Donald Trump, you know, why that happened. With Brexit in the UK, why that's happening. With the migrant crisis, with people being pushed out of their homes in communities and conversations about far right movements in Europe. Do you think attitudes globally are hardening? You talk about the revolution of your time and people are more cool now. But from the experiences that I have reporting in these places, that I sense that attitudes are hardening and people are identifying more now. There's more sense of identity politics. I think we have, in the last couple of decades, we have overdone this political correctness too much.  Trying to be right about everything. Not looking at what people's needs are, but too much political correctness, every word that you say, you have to say it in a certain way. This has led to a certain level of frustration, particularly in the United States. Now they're trying to protect their rights because they feel threatened.  Whether it's real or it's just perceptionally, it doesn't matter. But this feeling is strong. It is strong in India also. Because constantly talking, minoritism, people feel uncomfortable. What is going to happen to us? So we must understand this. Minorities have always stuck together. And because of this, politicians have played these games because minority votes are the only things which come en masse. Majority votes will never come en masse. So they always focused on them, gave them better things to such a point. I must tell you this, this is shocking, but it happened in this country. One of our former prime minister said, the first access to all resource must be to the minorities, particularly to the Muslim minorities. You should not say such things. Even if you intend, you should not say such things. Why did you find that shocking? How can the nation's resource belong to anybody? Even if you say it must belong to majority, it will be shocking for me. I'm not saying it is shocking because it… he pointed at a particular community. I'm saying it's shocking in a democratic country, which is a secular nation, that you think it should belong to one particular segment of people is wrong whether it's majority or minority. So when you make these kind of statements, postures and positions get hardened by other people to protect their own interests. What is economic will take on a religious hell, you know, hue altogether. It's essentially an economic issue, but it will take on a religious tinge. Once it takes on a religious tinge, everything becomes uncontrollable. Do you think that's a result of a lack of leadership? Do we have a global lack of leadership at the moment? There is lack of leadership in a certain way, but at the same time we need those kind of leaders only when we are in crisis. Rest of the need time, we just need a CEO to manage the nation. Only when you have to lift a nation out of some pit, then you need that kind of an inspiring leader. Rest of the time you don't really need that kind of leader. More a manager is good enough. Actually there is a survey in India which shows that in many of the states, when they had the weakest chief minister, that state does very well in economically. Why is that? Because he doesn't know how to meddle with everything. So do you find, I mean, you've raised the kind of the previous prime minister, did you say the previous prime minister said one of, a former leader talking about incentives going to certain communities. Is that an issue that India continues to face in its attempt to be politically correct? See, somewhere we have to come to this. In a democratic country, numbers are important because elections are just a number game. Because numbers are important, people are trying to get those numbers whichever way possible. So our election commission has put so many restrictions. If you say one religious word, immediately there is a censure. There is, you can even go to prison by inciting something. So they don't do it in public meetings, they do it in those closed meetings, whatever. So one important thing is if a democracy has to succeed, individuals should vote as individuals, not as family, not as community, not as caste, creed or religion. Only when you and me vote individually what we want to do, whether we are right or wrong, it doesn't matter. We vote individually, only then democracy will succeed. Otherwise you're practicing feudalism with a democratic gob. So once it becomes feudalistic, naturally everybody's position hardens. What is the role of spirituality when it comes to business? It's very important in the sense, first of all let's understand what is spiritual process. Spiritual process does not mean looking up or looking down. It is not about believing something. It is not about going to a temple, church or mosque or whatever. Spirituality means this. When your experience of life transcends the limitations of your physical nature, then we say you're spiritual. When we say physical nature, what is physical about you was all gathered from outside, isn't it? The food that we've eaten, which is sitting here as a body, either we get it now or when we're buried one day, we get it that we are actually part of the soil. So what is soil is now sitting here and acting up like this just because it can prance around, it starts believing things. But beyond what we have gathered, there is something else, which you can call as life, you can call it whatever you want. But you exist beyond your body parts. So what body parts we gathered is just earth, which we have to put back one day. Something beyond that is within us. If we come to experience that dimension, then we say you're spiritual.  Now if you touch that dimension, naturally the sense of boundary will go away within you because boundaries are of the physical nature. Boundaries is a must for physical nature. This is me, that is you physically. These boundaries are very essential and this is needed. That goes for individuals, that goes for communities, that goes for nations.  So physical spaces are always defined by boundaries. A dimension beyond physical if you touch, there is no sense of boundary within you. It is naturally inclusive. If you bring people, actually when I was at… I was asked, Sadhguru, if there's one thing we can do for you that will change this world, what is it? I said, I will name twenty-five people, give them to me for five days. I will change the world. In two to three years' time, there will be a huge change in the world. Who are these twenty-five people? I named twenty-five heads of the major nations on the planet. Normally I need two and a half days to do this to people. But because they are politicians, I said five days. You doubled the time. Doubled the time just to ensure. If… I want you to understand this, whether it's yourself or anybody who's leading a business or a nation, if you sit here and if you can experience all these people, as you're experiencing the five fingers of your hand, after that I don't have to tell you what you should do with them. Once you have experienced something as a part of yourself, then everything that you do will be an expression of that.  How is this possible? Very simple. We could do an experiment. If you do like this and hold it, you will see something starts happening between your two hands, you know? I'm sorry. So what do you think ultimately then is missing from these twenty-five people who run the world? Why did you choose them? Limited identification. It's the only problem. The… I'm sorry. No, no, that's right. Sadguru has a slight cough and cold so he's asked me to bear with him. See, these people could have experienced when they're very joyful or loving. If you felt very, very exuberant within yourself, if you just take your hands and place it here, six to eight inches away from you, right here you will feel sensations. If nothing like that happened, then we have to do something horrible. If we… you have heard this, somebody lost their leg or hand. Though the physical leg was lost, the sensory leg was still there. They could still feel the sensations. It's called a phantom leg or a phantom hand. This is because sensory body has a presence of its own. Right now this water is here. This is definitely not you. But if you drink it, it becomes you, isn't it? What is it that you did? All you did was include this water into the boundaries of your sensation. I'm sorry. I'm not… Do you want… do you want… Nobody ever sees me unwell. Down of… Hmm? Oh, that would be great. Yeah. See, now this water is not you, but if you drink it, it becomes you. What you have done is, what was outside the boundaries of your sensation, you included it into the boundaries of your sensation. What you call as my body was all over the place. Today, because it's within the boundaries of your sensation, you experience it as myself, isn't it? Now I can teach you a method with which your sensory body can expand. Let's say your sensory body became as large as this hall. If you sit here, you will experience everything here as a part of yourself, because everything is within the boundaries of your sensation. This is what yoga means. Yoga means union. Yoga does not mean twisting and turning your body or standing on your head. Yoga means union. In your experience, everything became one, simply because your sensory body has been expanded. If your sensory body became as large as this world, you would experience everything as yourself. Sitting here for one moment, if you experience me as yourself, after that, do I have to teach you morality, thou shall not do this, thou shall not do that? Would it be necessary for you? So you're saying the problem is religion then? No, no, no. The problem is limited identification. You are identified only with this. So this is naturally either an enemy or something to get something out of. It is a marketplace. Other people have become our marketplace. If we saw them as human beings, if you experienced them as human beings, we would see how to contribute to their lives. If you see them as marketplace, you will see how to exploit them. So if you exploit them, there will be resentment. There will be...  But if we get a chance, we would like to do something to you. This is how the world is going on. So if the top leadership in the world within themselves is they experience a certain sense of union with everything around them, the very way the function will change. Why I'm saying this is, see, this is for the first time. This is for the very first time in the history of humanity. Today we have the necessary resource, capability, technology to address every human problem on the planet. You take what you want, nourishment, health, education, everything we can address. The only thing that's missing is there is no inclusive consciousness. Even 50 years ago, we wouldn't be capable of... Even if we intended, we could not do it. Thank you. 50 years ago, even if we wanted to do it, we did not have the capacity. Today we have the capacity and we are not... If we don't do it, that I call it as a crime against humanity. If we are not capable of it, that's different. But we are capable of it and we did not do it. That's a crime, isn't it? Do you think, though, that religion divides? You want me to get killed. See, the moment you believe one thing, you must understand this, why do you believe something? Do you believe you have two... Do you believe you have two hands? Or do you know you have two hands? I know. You know you have two hands. What would you believe? Something that you do not know, you believe. To pretend that you know. If human beings understand the immensity of not knowing, immensity of seeing, I do not know. If you see, I do not know. Only then the possibility of knowing opens up in your life. But now what we have done to humanity is, whatever you do not know, you just believe it. So you believe one thing. I believe something else. Today we are nice to each other.  Do you think religious men, you know, people in positions of power that others follow exploit that? I wouldn't say they exploit that. They are also victims because they also believe. First of all, belief means this. You don't have the courage to admit something that you do not know as I do not know. What is your problem? What I know, I know. What I do not know, I do not know. What is the big deal about it? But that one thing humanity is not able to come to terms with is, they are not able to live with I do not know. But I do not know is a tremendous possibility. If you are in a state of I do not know, your intelligence is at its peak.  So we have gotten human societies into this that everybody has to believe something. It's very important we bring up our children in such a way that they become sincere enough. What I know, I know. What I do not know, I do not know. What's the problem with this? But then there will be no religion. How would you feel about that? How would you feel about that? People think if there is no organized religion, everybody will go haywire. I don't think so. I have deep and profound trust in humanity.  It is not necessary because of fear of God you are doing the right things. You should do the right things because you experience life as a certain kind of unity. If you pay enough attention around you, you can understand very clearly you could not even exist here without the worms and the insects and the birds and the trees. You cannot exist here. This is how I launched this movement called Project Green Hands, now which translated itself into Rally for Rivers. I made people sit under trees and made them breathe in a certain way, set up a certain spiritual process. I said, see, what you exhale, the tree is inhaling.  One half of your breathing apparatus actually hanging out there. People sat like this and now they got into a tree planting frenzy, you can't stop them. Thirty-two million trees, they have planted living trees in Tamil Nadu where it's changed the landscape. You can't stop them anymore because when they see tree, tears come to them because there is a sense of unity. So our best insurance is our humanity. Not some from somewhere else and imposed law upon ourselves. Instead of stirring up humanity we are trying to make people believe all kinds of things. The moment you believe one thing and I believe another thing conflict is just a question of time. I mean, you spoke about the trees and people now planting all these trees. You've used the connection that you have with people and the fact that they follow you in a positive way but we've also seen men of God, God men, gurus, religious men use it to exploit people. Just recently we had a case here in India. See, unfortunately, corruption has seeped into every sphere of life. There are corrupt politicians, there are corrupt policemen, there are corrupt journalists. I wouldn't take a person. There are. Many of them have been caught on something or the other and unfortunately there are corruption, there is corruption in the so-called spiritual space also. So this is a more fundamental problem than being associated with one particular type of activity. It is there everywhere. But in this sphere of life, maybe it's more stark and more painful because this is a sphere of life which runs on trust. So this is why in many ways, in the last thirty-five years I have transformed the spiritual space. You don't have to, you don't have to trust me, you don't have to like me, you don't have to love me. Just a simple procedure, like a science. So we call this inner engineering. It's a technology for well-being. You learn to use it, that's all. See, you're using a phone. You're using a Samsung, so you don't have to love the Koreans, you just learn to use the phone. So similarly, you don't have to love me, you just learn to use the method and it will work for you. So this has been my fundamental work. That spiritual process has to be dealing with it from faith as such because this is the technology and science and technology for inner well-being as there is a science and technology for external well-being. There is a whole science and technology for inner well-being. If you transmit it without frills, it will remain clean and good. So that's how it's working across the world right now. But somebody may misuse it always, but that misuse is there in every sphere of life, isn't it, unfortunately? It's true. On that note, I'll open it up to the floor and give you a chance to ask Sadguru your questions. I'm sure you have lots of things in your mind and thoughts, but two people there, if I can just get the microphone to them. Thank you so much. If you could introduce yourself. Sure. I'm Anjali Gopalan with the NAS Foundation, which is an HIV AIDS service organization. Sadguru, recently I have read about Mutammah, this really poor tribal woman who's taken on the Isha Foundation to get back her land, which she claims Isha Foundation has usurped and the land for over 400 other tribal families. Is there any chance that the Isha Foundation would return that land to the tribal people? If I had it, I would have. But the Isha Foundation has, and there's documented evidence. Please, there's no documented evidence or any kind of evidence. There are some people who should be pulp fiction writers who claim to be journalists right now, unfortunately. Okay? You are most welcome to come and examine everything that you want to. These people should be writing pulp fiction, but they claim to be journalists. Unfortunately, as she was talking about some spiritual leaders being corrupt, certain journalists have taken to blackmail. Okay? Right now, any journalist or anybody is free to come and investigate the entire process. If there is an inch of land, just an inch of land taken from anybody, I will leave the country. Is that good enough? Inch. Okay. Thank you very much. My name is Biraj Patnaik. And thank you for talking about the environment and inspiring young people. I think that's very, very important today. And that's a role we wish more people did. You just spoke about pulp fiction and journalists, but what about the Tamil Nadu government, which is filed in affidavit in the High Court, clearly stating and showing the violations, environmental violations, and construction violations of your foundation on the land, the blocking of the Elephant Corridor? I mean, leading to the situation where Justice Saripatnam, as you know, appealed to the prime minister not to go to the foundation for these legal activities, surely the Tamil Nadu government filing an affidavit in the High Court is not a work of fiction, Sadhguru. All right. Now, if there was substance to that, you think the prime minister would make the trip? Have some sense about what we are talking about, okay? If you have invested yourself in something already, and you have to say these things, but a thousand times, the World Wildlife Fund, Tamil Nadu Forest Departments and the environmental ministry, everybody has said there is no elephant corridor in the region, anywhere within 100 miles. And you go on inventing an elephant corridor which doesn't exist, what can I do? About the Tamil Nadu governments affidavit, Tamil Nadu government's forest department is clearly stated in the High Court that this is not an elephant corridor and not an inch of land has been taken by the foundation. If this is not good enough, somebody goes on filing an affidavit. I will tell you, they said we have chopped off an entire rainforest. So we produced the Google Maps of 2002, 2008, 2010, 2016 and 2017. Not a single tree has been taken out. Now you don't open your mouth on that. Why? You said entire forest has been taken out. Look at the Google Maps. Today there is technology, you can't sell your lies forever.  Okay, we've got a question at the front here. So I think the work we do with our firm is kind of infringing with your inner engineering because we are trying to potentially put 3D printed organs into people. So that's, again, inner engineering, giving someone a new life. To keep it serious, sir, my question is on the lines of the work you're doing with Rally for Rivers and, again, steering up the Indian youth's enthusiasm to kind of go out there and create positive change. Where do you see this going forward? Now it's Rally for Rivers. Do you see yourself being an advocate for much bigger changes and do you see yourself as being someone as a change maker who can drive the Indian youth towards creating positive change in this country? I'm interested in you, whether you're young or old. Okay, not just for the youth. About Rally for Rivers, we have presented a draft policy recommendation to the government. Now it is going to the state governments. We are also, we have put it online for the media and others and we are also sending it to all the top environmentalists in the world in case they can contribute something. But the important part is, largely all the states have agreed upon the policy. This was the biggest hurdle because it's a concurrent subject between the center and the state and they could never get the states to agree because they are various political parties. Now all the political parties, we brought them to concurrence that they have agreed to the how the river should be treated as such, which is a major step because concurrence has come, this makes it easy for the central government to go about the policy. It will definitely become a policy in a short while. When it will become a law, it may take some time because there are many social and other kinds of complexities in implementing this, but we want to set up large-scale modules which are economically successful to prove to the farmers this new way that we're talking about will work out to their advantage. Without setting up an economic success, we don't want to push it. Once it's an economic success, I think it will go like a revolution by itself. Yeah, true. Thank you for sharing with us all your thoughts. I just want to ask you a very fundamental question. You know some of us, and I'm from the global shapers community with the World Economic Forum, so we've been selected because we are interested in making an impact in the world and in the communities. So why is it that some people feel this way and other people don't feel this way? I've always struggled with trying to identify why is it that I have this kind of responsibility towards my country and my community, and some people just do not seem to have it. So does the upbringing, the schooling, have something to do with it and how can we inculcate this feeling in everybody? Definitely there are many influences, but the most fundamental thing that we need to understand is, as I was telling... Yelda. Yelda is... it's a question of identity. What are you identified with? If you're identified just with yourself, then naturally your intelligence will function only to for the well-being of this one. If you're identified with your family, your intelligence will function for the well-being of your family. If you're identified with the community, it works for that. If you're identified with the nation, it works for that. If you're identified with the entire life on this planet, it works for that. So this is the nature of human intellect. Whatever you're identified with, that's what it works for. One thing that's happened with modern education is we are only focusing on the development of the intellect. The other dimensions of intelligence are completely neglected. When I say other dimensions, in the yogic way of looking at things, we look at human mind as sixteen parts. They can be seen as four segments. This is called Buddha, Ahankara, Manas and Chitta. Buddha means the intellect. Right now, the entire modern education is totally intellect-oriented. Would you like your intellect to be sharp or dull? Sharp. So essentially, intellect is a cutting instrument. It's like a knife. It's alright to use a knife to cut something.  If you use a knife, you leave it in tattoos. This is what is happening to modern human being because the only part of intelligence that they're employing is their intellect. They're trying to do everything with their knife.  As you get hurt, you will fix smaller and smaller boundaries for yourself. You step out into the world. If something hurts you, you put one boundary. If something else hurts you, you put one more boundary. If you get hurt within the family, you will make a much smaller boundary. Because you're employing only the intellect part of the intelligence, it's very important the future generations at least. Human intelligence has to be brought up in an equitable way so that the other dimensions of intelligence function. Only when they function will they be able to think of a larger identity. Otherwise, naturally, it's about me, me and me alone. So in this, you do very small things.  The trapped need not necessarily be because somebody locked you up. The trapped can be just in your own mind. And people immensely suffer that. This is the transition you're seeing. When you are five years of age, your face was like this, slowly it becomes like this.  At five, if you were so joyful, at thirty you should have become ecstatic, isn't it? But just the reverse is happening simply because intellect is the only dimension of intelligence you're using. You're trying to understand everything by cutting it open. If I want to know you, should I dissect you? But that's what you're doing in your mind, isn't it?  You can know some aspects. I can know your liver, kidney spleen by dissecting you. But I will not know you as a human being. So this is something we have to focus on in our education systems. Hello. So Guru, I've always wanted to ask this question. And today I've got this opportunity. It's a very basic question. But yeah, we've always been told that, you know, everything is pre-decided in our fate and then it's all about luck.  She says, no, everything is pre-written. So what is in our control and what is not in our control? It is always confusing. So do we just let things go to happen or keep struggling and then make things happen? It's very confusing, Sadhguru. Please guide us. If you're making something happen, why should you struggle? But some things that really do not work in our favor, we keep, if I have to give, by taking a risk, I would like to give an example. Like for example, if we see Mark Zuckerberg's live story or Bill Gates' live story, it all began with so much of, you know, controversy and all that. But at the end they have really landed successful and now they're doing well. Can we really see stories like this? It confuses us, what part do we follow and then do we be honest or just keep doing or following things the way things come? There are many complexities in the question. Please sit down. I don't know where the honesty came into this and why it came to question. Anyway, see if you take charge of your physical body, if you have some mastery over your physical body, about 15 to 20% of your life and destiny will be in your hands. If you take charge of your intelligence, 50 to 60% of your life and destiny will be in your hands. If you take charge of your very life energy within you, 100% of your life and destiny will be in your hands. The question is only, have you taken charge of this? The problem is you're trying to take charge of the world. No, you have to enhance this. If this is enhanced, the activity you perform is naturally enhanced. This is like, you know there's a buddh circuit here, the F1 circuit is here in Delhi. You are on the Formula One track with your old Maruti 800. If you hit 300 kilometers per hour, all four wheels will fly in four different directions. If you want to be on a F1 track, you must have a reasonably good machine which can take it. So the important thing is you must enhance this one. But you're trying to enhance activity. If you enhance activity without enhancing this one, this will break up. This is what a lot of people are doing to themselves. But if you focus on enhancing this, you will take activity in your stride effortlessly. Then you will see creating something is not a struggle. I interviewed Satya Nadella, the Microsoft CEO. He was born in India last week. And I said to him, the top nine CEOs in the world are all Indian. Why are they all leaving the country? Why aren't we seeing a Microsoft or a Google being created here in this environment? Because in this country, we still have a socialist backlog. There are some people like this who raised their hands in the beginning who doesn't like anything to succeed. If anything succeeds, they will go against it. Anything doing well, they don't like it. People are happy, they don't like it. So people go out and thrive. So should there be a Google or Microsoft here in India? I'm sure it's bound to happen because the time for Google and Microsoft is past. Something new has to come up. I'm sure it will come up. I'll take some more questions if there are. Yeah, just the lady in the back. Namaste, Satguru. My name is Ninna Clay and I'm in the business world. And I was just wondering that this inner engineering program that you're talking about, can it help people with psychological problems as well? Or remanifested problems? See, it depends.  There are too many shades in between. So all psychological problems cannot go under one banner. It is... every individual psychological problem is very unique. If there is no one solution for all of them, some of them are pathologically embedded in their system, which is not easy to handle. Many are induced because of the situations and the challenges that they face in their life. Those can be easily turned around. People who have become psychologically imbalanced because of situational pressures upon them, we can definitely turn them around. But those who have pathologically so, it's not easy. We can give them some relief, but will it be all fixed? That would be an empty promise. Thank you. We spoke about ambition earlier and you're talking now about anxieties and disorders and psychological issues. Do you think with the drive of ambition, more people are developing depression, anxiety, mental health issues? I personally don't like the word ambition because in a certain way, you're trying to impose your will upon the world.  If we transform ourselves from ambition to a larger vision, we can do the same thing very joyfully. Still, we will become who we become depending upon our capabilities, but we can do it joyfully with a great sense of fulfillment, rather than being crushing ourselves to become something. I keep telling people, most people are trying, you know, they're killing themselves to live.  If you have to do this life joyfully, it's very important that you have invested yourself in a vision to create something, rather than ambition to become something. This is just a question right there. Hi, Sadhguru. Namaste. I'm Simarpreet Singh, global shaper from Chandigarh. I was reading Isha Foundation's blog and there is this one article. The heading is Sadhguru's Enlightenment in his own words. So, I want to know according to you what is enlightenment and how can other people be enlightened beings as you have mentioned your experience of getting enlightened. Can you tell us about that? Thank you. The blog didn't tell you. He couldn't figure it out on the blog. Let me put it technically because there are so many glorious explanations about what it is. As I was speaking earlier, see when you sit here, your experience of yourself is largely physical, isn't it? If somebody next to you pokes you, will you say, don't poke my body or will you say, don't poke me? Don't poke me, isn't it? Because your experience of the body is myself. But is it true this body is something that you accumulated over a period of time? Yes? What you accumulate can be yours. Can never ever be you, isn't it? Whatever you accumulate, it can be yours. It can never ever be you. Right now, as I'm speaking, I say this is my cup.  But let's listen some more because everybody says he's wise. After some time, I say this is me. Then you'll say, let's go. Because this is your madness, isn't it? Something that you acquired, you think is you. Isn't that madness? So right now, that is the madness. What you accumulated, you think it's me. The day you are free of this madness, we will say you are enlightened. Experientially, not intellectually. It's quite difficult to get to that stage, you would know. It is not difficult. It is just that it's in a different direction than the way you're looking right now. When I say the way you're looking right now, can you see me? Yes. Use one hand and point out where I am. Ah, you got it wrong, Gelder. Are you everywhere? Is that what you're trying to say? This light is falling upon me, reflecting, going through your lenses, inverted image in the retina, you know the whole story. So where do you see me now? Within yourself. Where do you hear me right now? Within myself. Where did you see the whole world? Within yourself. Have you ever experienced anything outside of yourself?    Even light and darkness is only happening within you, isn't it? But what about the pain that others inflict on one another and the suffering? When was the last time somebody poked you with a dagger? I was actually in Mosul three weeks ago and I saw a lot of people poking each other with all sorts of things. See, when you say the pain that other people inflict, if it's physical, this is what the issue that he's raised now.  Similarly, if you know, not because you're thinking about it, simply you know this body is just one more acquisition of mine. You will keep it well, you will use it well, but just because this is not me, I'm not going to break this. I'm going to keep this well because it's useful to me. If this is so, you will see you will be completely free from various things that normally people suffer. Just now, I've been on a 30-day ride across the country. All the other drivers who are driving with me, they have spare drivers. I have no spare driver because I am supposed to drive every kilometer. Daily I'm driving 12 to 16 hours a day and in these 30 days I did 142 events, events like this. And some of them are very large events with 20-25,000 people and 186 one-on-one interviews. That means when I'm driving, most of the time arrangements were made in the car for microphone, camera, everything. Continuously I was talking through the day and night and driving. Driving on Indian roads like that is not easy to do, okay? What is it that keeps you going? It's just that if you have a little space between yourself and your body, suddenly you will see the limitations of the physical does not rule you anymore. So is it easy or difficult to get there? It is not difficult, it's in a different direction. See right now when you say where am I, you say you point the finger here, but actually in your experience it's happening within you. If you were conscious of that, you would clearly understand all experiences within you are created by you. Maybe unconsciously, but it is created by you. Everything that happens within you happens because that's the way you're doing it. So this is why in this culture we said the way you're experiencing your life is your karma. The word karma means it's your doing. Today it's been misinterpreted, they think it's a faith. It is not a faith, it's the most dynamic way to live. When we say your life is your karma, it means your life is your making, 100%. Why is it then that the majority of the eight billion people on our planet follow the other path and not this path, if it's not difficult? You're counting me out unfortunately, as if I don't exist. See, because people have begun to live in such a way that their involvement with life is very superficial. They're busy making arrangements on the outside. They have not paid enough attention to the life that they are. But if you want to really live well, you must understand the mechanism of what this is, isn't it? Suppose you buy a phone. If you don't read the user's manual, will you be able to use it well? I'm asking, this is the most sophisticated gadget on the planet, isn't it so? Human mechanism, is there a better technology? This is the technology. Have you read the user's manual? So if you understood the user's manual fully and learned to use it that way, then that's enlightenment in a certain way. We've got time for one more question if anyone has something brief that they'd like, the opportunity to ask. Sadguru, anything yes? I think she's referring to the 188 interviews he did on the 144 events. See, in this 35 years, my average sleep has been anywhere between two-and-a-half to three hours per day. Because right now you check my pulse and see, because I have a cold and things, it's a little up, it's around fifty-two, fifty-four in that region. But if I'm well and if I sit in one place, it'll settle down to thirty-six, thirty-four in this range. It's going at ease. If everything is going at ease, then there is no stress of doing something. It's very important that human beings first learn to work upon themselves before they meddle with the world. If this one thing is done, then you will do the right things with the world around you. Because if you do not even know how to treat yourself well, how will you treat other people well? If you don't know how to bring well-being to yourself, how will you bring well-being to other people? It's not going to happen, it's just talk, empty talk. I was in a peace conference, international peace conference. Forty-two Nobel laureates were there. One after another, one after another, belting out long speeches, mostly read from paper, they don't even look up, they're just reading, reading pages and pages. Then when my turn came, I asked it so much talk about world peace. How many of you can genuinely put your hand on your heart and say that you have a peaceful mind? Your mind is peaceful. They were very honest, they said, no, we are not peaceful. But we want the world to be peaceful. See, the world is very peaceful minus the human beings. World is fantastic minus the human beings. It's only what is happening in the human mind, a larger manifestation is happening on the street, which is looking ugly. Otherwise, tell me what's wrong with the world. If you and me are not here, the world is just fine, isn't it? So we do not know how to bring balance to our own self, but we want to do that in the larger world, it'll never happen. We have to understand this. What you see as a world is just a larger version of who we are. If you don't fix this, we can't fix that. Do you predict that will ever happen? Because we're seeing a more divided, as we realized how small the world is, we're also creating more barriers and divisions. I'm not somebody who thrives on predictions of any kind. I don't like predictions because predictions go, are made from the cold facts of today. Predictions don't take into consideration what's beating in the human heart. Human beings are aspiring to do something about themselves like never before. And today, you know, I keep joking with people. I say, see, I'm the greatest guru ever in the history of humanity. They look at what happened to Sadhguru is becoming Mike Tyson or something. This is because when our Krishna came, when a Buddha came, when so many other great beings came, if they spoke, hardly fifty people could hear them. Today I can sit here and speak to the entire world. This was never before possible thanks to the technologies. So today this is possible. This is also possible that we could make the world meditative very much possible. And for the first time we are touching that many number of people as we would have never done before. So is it a possibility? Definitely. Will it happen right now? Not necessarily. But in our lives if we do not do what we cannot do, it's not a problem. In our lives if we do not do what we can do, we are a disaster. So it's my wish and my blessing that none of us should become a disaster like that. What we can do must happen. What we cannot do. On that note, I'd really like to thank you, Sadguru, for taking the time to speak to us and despite your cold as well. Thank you so much. I'm better now. You're better now. Thanks for coming.


Welcome back to Tennis Talk, my name is Cam Williams and the ATP have given us an update on what the Asian Swing is going to look like this year. It's a bit of an abbreviated Asian Swing. Of course we haven't had the Asian Swing for a couple of years now because of COVID and a lot of tournaments being cancelled but the pullout of China, so all the China tournaments are off the table. Let's go have a look at the schedule and the renewed schedule for this year's Asian Swing. So this is what the Asian Swing is going to look like this year or at least the time between September and October. Starting after the Davis Cup group stage we've got a tournament in Mets which is a normal tournament that we've had before and San Diego is actually getting a tournament this year, an indoor hardcore tournament. So that's going to be interesting both ATP 250 events. Following that we've got a tournament in Tel Aviv, another hardcore tournament also the Sevilla Open which is an indoor hardcore event that we've seen before and also the Korea Open which is an outdoor hardcore event. So two new tournaments on the ATP both ATP 250 events. Starting in October we've got two ATP 500 events. Of course the Japan Open which has always been an ATP 500 event but because we don't have the China Open the Astana Open's been upgraded to an ATP 500 event so a Kazakhstan event as part of the Asian Swing for this year and then following the Asian Swing there we go back to Europe. We have tournaments in Italy and Spain which are both indoor hardcore events, both new to the ATP this year and then the ATP continue their indoor hardcore events with the European Open, Stockholm Open and are now a new tournament in Italy again on outdoor hardcore in Naples. So another ATP 250 event that has been given to the ATP and you'll notice some big tournaments not in there. We've got obviously Chengdu, Zuhar which are two smaller tournaments as part of the Asian Swing both in China, the Beijing Open as I mentioned but the big gap is the Shanghai Masters. We don't have it again this year. This is the third year in a row that this tournament has not been played an ATP 1000 event and there's no replacement for it so 1000 points go out the window again this year but no tournaments in China due to restrictions from COVID. So there you have it that is the abbreviated Asian Swing it's definitely shortened this year of course taking four tournaments out of China as well as the big one in Shanghai which is kind of like the pinnacle of the ATP tournament in Asia but let me know down in the comments below. Do you miss the Asian Swing? I miss it. I miss Shanghai. I miss watching all those leading tournaments of course we had the Tokyo Olympics last year which was kind of like a little bit of an Asian Swing but let me know down in the comments below. Are you missing the Asian Swing or are you kind of okay with this schedule?


Welcome back everybody. Perhaps we should get started and I've just seen that we've been joined by our keynotes from Ireland, Oisin. So welcome, very warm welcome Oisin. It's fantastic to have you here. We're very much looking forward to your keynote very soon. We are going to just spend some time for the next 10 minutes or so, a quarter of an hour or so and then we'll have a short break before your keynote. Just to report back from the sessions that we've just had to have an opportunity to share some of the discussion that took place. We had a staff session and a student session, and we were looking at or considering the same series of questions in each session. So, and we did capture some of the themes through the padlet, but really this session is to invite Alison Kate and Alisa from the staff session and Alex from the student session to share the themes of the discussions that took place in their part of the Zoom world. Shall I go first? Wonderful. Thank you, Alison. I'm sure Alex will be fine with that. I'll just start with a couple of reflections that we had as we, and it's a little bit from the padlet and a little bit from our discussion. We talked about, you know, some of the challenges in doing this work, which can be seen as quite disruptive and in fact is probably designed to be that way to move beyond just the consultation with students once we've designed something or made a decision or, you know, just, you know, some feedback and then, you know, trying to close the loop on that. It's about really moving up on Steen's ladder and getting to the genuine partnership stage where we're working as equal informed partners from our unique perspectives and to do that, you know, it really takes cultural change. We have our champions here who do a lot of this work and we talk a lot about the challenges and how to overcome them. And one of the great reflections that we had in the session was that we know that there are challenges. It is, it can be messy. Things cannot work. We can sometimes make mistakes, you know, it's, it's hard to make this sustainable when there are big changes that happen in the university, or indeed, you know, some of our champions move on either from the staff or student space. So that in itself is something that we can plan for and try to create strategies and processes and systems to, to anticipate those challenges. But there's always going to be new challenges. I mean, I don't have to tell you guys what 2020 brought for all of us. I think that when we're thinking about the challenges, what works and the benefits for this are the things that really drive us as staff that we're very, very passionate about this space and I'm passionate about listening to students so trust was another thing that came out quite strongly, because you do that cultural piece around ensuring you've got shared values, and that you talk about those things, because you know you can plan and have strategies and systems in place but if we don't have that shared culture of partnership and genuine partnership, no one's going to be listening to each other. So that's a general kind of summary statement. Is that, is that okay. Alex, did you want to chime in from the student side of things we're very interested to hear. Thanks for that Allison yeah we, we had similar discussions. It was great to kind of we had a pretty small group so we didn't end up using padlet all that much although Piper all add in some of these notes later so we have that copy, but we just all just kind of had a great chat and gave some gave some examples from our own institutions. So, for example, one of the biggest challenges, and you just touched on this a little bit Allison was mistrust mutual mistrust identified between both senior academic staff as well as student groups so it's a bit on both sides you have senior groups that students may think are acting against their best interest, and you have management that may think the student group could hurt the reputation of the organization. So we spent quite a bit of time on looking at what all the benefits are though of having students involved in in the representation. As we've seen in the presentations today there's there's quite a few. Some came to mind. It's a really great learning example for the institution. But one thing you really want to focus on is what students like and what they dislike and being able to understand that is going to drive student engagement at your organization. So that could be how our courses run how our social events delivered. How would you as a student like to receive announcements and this information. So that was a big theme that we identify that multiple institutions. For strategies and practices that are working. One of the big ones was student elected committees and boards, more resources available for these student run groups. Because we've all seen the positive change that these groups can can provide. I was briefly about the post post grad student association I'm a member of, and although I didn't say it I'm also I was also thinking about the SVA group and, and how that, how that's worked how our little working group Alice and that's worked and what we've been able to do for the university and in such a short time. Finally, where do we want to see this in the future. We want to reevaluate what's worked this year, maybe build off of what worked from 2020 as well, given that COVID was such a substantial change that affected everybody and it's still affecting us today. I just want to look at sustainability and we're going to be talking a little bit about that on Thursday, but Felix brought up a great, great discussion about student voice Australia sustainability and the trouble with high turnover in the group. And you worry about losing that knowledge those champions that passion, the work that's been done the relationships that have been forged. Honestly, I couldn't have said it myself Felix that was a great point you made. And it's something I've been thinking a little bit about myself being that I'll graduate either early this year or early next year or later this year or early next year. And I think it's I think it's something that we should all very seriously consider is how can we ensure that that same drive that you see in one year is going to carry over to your new students and your new staff because it's important that you have a new staff at the university who are also there to help guide the volunteers like myself. So basically Allison, you're never allowed to leave because I worry about what's going to happen when myself and the others graduate, and then there's a new flock you're going to have to educate and inspire. Anyway, that so that that kind of wraps up the discussion we had a great discussion. If there's anything else that I've missed. If anyone wants to shoot me a message I'll be happy to raise my voice again but I just want to thank everybody again that was a great session and I'll pass it along. Thank you so much, Alex and also Allison. That was that was a lot to cover from a short session which is great and really identifying I think some key issues can I bring Kate and Alyssa in in to the to the discussion. Shall I go first Kate. So the things that came up for me, it was interesting the conversations that I was having in our small group with the sort of the micro practices but also the issues around governance and I guess the big takeaways for me are just the importance of that university level leadership and having a really clear strategy around student leadership. And a coordinated effort because there are a lot of things that can happen in lots of fragmented ways across the university but there's not a lot of coordination and there's probably a lot of duplication of resourcing. So they're the big takeaways for me just having that kind of coordinated strategic level approach to student leadership and then really focusing in on how we support students and how we support staff because the power relation issue is really difficult and then sustainability so I think thinking about how we embed this in structures and processes so that it just becomes part of the culture of the university it's part of what we do on a day to day basis and I think I feel like we've got a long way to go before that might be the case. And then things around representation so representation of more than just the most engaged students for example perhaps the time for students equity students how do we engage people in this space who may not see that they belong there may not feel they belong there so then there's some of the things for me. Thank you that's that's really thank you Lisa that that's that's great and it kind of reminds me as well as one of the topics that we discussed in in a small group I was in which was, I guess around shared purpose, shared purpose, really, and real clarity of purpose, and we talked a little bit I think about, you know, the passion, maybe there and and lots of, as you say, different initiatives, activities, maybe also a coordinating framework but actually, I really identify with this issue of shared purpose, because of the experience from last year I think, Alex you mentioned that you talked about, you know, what we learned from 2020 and building on that and I think there's probably more work we can do perhaps as a network to really dig into that question what did we learn in in 2020 that as a net, you know, as institutions I think we're taking this forward, maybe as a as a network what we can, can we learn from our our distributed experiences of 2021 I think for us was this extraordinary galvanizing of commitment to a student partnership and student voice approach within that context of of a kind of heightened center sense of shared purpose, a real clarity of what we needed to do, and why and there's something there for me in all of that. Alyssa, sorry Kate, would you like to comment. I don't want to comment too much because I'm actually really keen to hear there's some more students that want to contribute so I'd like to give some time to hear from another student maybe that participated in that conversation I can't see people in the room. Great and I can't see people in the room either. So if anyone would like to speak up that'd be great. I mean I think all I would add is that we need to genuinely like genuinely value valuing what students have to offer and what students contribute, and they're real very real expertise is really important as well. And thinking about how we actually show appreciation or reward or recognize students participating beyond maybe certificates and recognition of activity and things like that. I think we have to get really serious about that if we want to make sure that students are equals and participating. We get that wider participation that so they were some thoughts that we had in our group but um yeah is there a student I'd love to hear from someone so I can't name anyone on my screen. You could always take a question or a comment through the Q&A. So students who'd like to comment in response to Kate if you if you want to do that through the Q&A because we're in a webinar so we can't do it. If they want to put up their hands we can promote them so they can talk so if there is a student who'd like to be visible we should be able to do it I think. Okay. But we just need to put their hand up using the raised hand function. Don't be shy. I'm the whole point of us being in this room it's really they're here from you guys. I'd love to hear some more. I can't see anything coming up at the moment. Maybe it's some it's it's just a natural time to draw this session to a close. We do have a scheduled break for 10 minutes before we welcome. And his keynote and engage with with a sheen and the work that that he's taking forward in Ireland. Everybody thanks so much for your input into that session. It seems to me to have generated some very clear thinking and some clear themes for student voice Australia to be engaging with as we go forward so and I'm really glad that we've captured that in not only on the padlock but in this fantastic visual. That we've got on our screens at the moment. Thank you Rachel for that is brilliant. Let's take 10 minutes and we will reconvene in 10 minutes for a sheen keynote. Thank you everybody.


Ladies and gentlemen, the Jaws of Schlitz Brewing Company of Milwaukee, Wisconsin presents the Halls of Ivy starring Mr. and Mrs. Ronald Coleman. I was curious. I tasted it. Now I know why Schlitz is the beer that made Milwaukee famous. If you like good beer, you'll find it pays to be curious and learn about Schlitz for yourself. Welcome again to Ivy, Ivy College that is in the town of Ivy USA. The last class of the day has been dismissed and both students and faculty are relaxing. In the home of Dr. William Todd Hunter Hall, President of Ivy and his wife, formerly a shining light at the London stage, Dr. Hall is lying on the couch and Mrs. Hall is sitting on the floor beside him going over the afternoon mail which arrived a few minutes ago. Well, here's the last of the lot. It's an invitation to tea. What reply shall I make? What is it saying? On Saturday the 16th Mrs. Millicent Foster will be at home between four and six. Dr. William Hall likewise. It's rather a crisp refusal, don't you think? I mean that someone as rich as Mrs. Foster. What happens to a college president who misses a chance of wangle and endowment? The established procedure, I believe, calls for his Board of Governors to form a hollow square, snip off his buttons and drum him out of the service. Unless, of course, he can prove it was not his fault. If he can do that, then the Board naturally takes that into consideration. What do they do then? They form a hollow square, snip off his buttons and drum him out of the service. And he and his wife are never, just rub my back a little. No, no, a bit to the left. That's it. And he and his wife are never again seen in academic circles. They become flotsam and jetsam on the stream of life. You know, I think you ought to accept Mrs. Foster's invitation. She's apt to be very receptive to your ideas about building IP. Why should she be? I've never even met her.  Toddy, your cheesecake. Well, I'm Victorian now. What was that line? Um, no ineffectual, intellectual he. I'm Victorian. And that caption beneath the photograph. Sexy Brexit. Victoria, please. The tone of that article was entirely incommensurate. The article contained a great deal of truth. But the tone of that article was entirely... Toddy, face it. You're an attractive human being. The tone of the... Well, anyway, it's nice to have you think so. Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one. Girls must always have found you attractive.  A dilly-d perhaps, Victoria, but I never dallyed. I think we might bring this discussion of my personal charms to a close by accepting Mrs. Foster's invitation to tea. Yes. One moment while I note it down. There. No hollow square for you.  As far as we know, however, I think they... Oh, answer the phone. Will you, Victorian? Certainly, if I can find it. Oh, this happens every time. That phone is never twice in the same place. Oh, now, Toddy, it'll turn up sooner or later. There is only a strike for one moment and off its campus on a frolic of its own. It's not under the coffee table. Then, never mind, Victoria, I see it... Where? On the telephone table of all places. Dr. Hall speaking. Oh, yes, good afternoon, Mr. Merryweather. This is an unexpected play. With whom? No, I've never met him, but of course, his reputation. Oh, yes, by all means, do. Goodbye. Mr. Merryweather, he's on his way over. Oh, good. I adore Mr. Merryweather. I wish all the members of the Board of Governors were like him. Did I tell you what he said to me last time he visited? He was leaving. He pinched my cheek, looked deeply into my eye, and then said, God, ma'am, what I wouldn't give to be 70 again. Chester Bromley is with him. Chester Bromley? How do you think I know him? Well, he's perhaps the greatest authority on Shakespeare since Skidridge of Harvard, and one of the finest pedagogues this country has ever produced. I wonder what Merryweather has on his mind. Do you suppose the Board is displeased about something? Oh, no point fretting, Toddy. Think about something else. Tell me more about Dr. Bromley. He's the best kind of academician. He has real love for his subject and what is even more admirable, he can communicate his enthusiasm and fire to his students. He may want to reopen the whole matter of breakage in the physics lab. Dr. Bromley? No, Mr. Merryweather, he can't seem to understand that with the increased emphasis on the sciences, expenses are bound to mount. I wish we could have him here at Ivy permanently. Mr. Merryweather? No, darling, Dr. Bromley, he's unearthed more truth about his subject matter than any other researcher in the field.  Dr. Bromley or Mr. Merryweather? William Shakespeare. He's on third. Who's on third? Who's on first? I'm gonna use a cup of tea. Very confusing the whole thing. You know, it's only recently that Bromley has received the recognition he deserves. Most of his life, he taught at third-rate schools throughout the country. Not until Oxford invited him to lecture did the academic world realize what a great man he really is. Did you call, Mum? Yes, I'd be four for tea. Awesome. Oh, one moment, Penny. Toddy, did you know Penny was born and bred in Shakespeare's hometown? Really? Stratford-on-Avon? You must know quite a good deal about him. Oh, yes. Couldn't help but learn what he'd been raised there. I could tell you ever so many things. Look, go ahead. I'm very interested. Well, for one thing, he was English. Yes, I have heard some such rumour. And he wrote plays. You did keep your ears open, didn't you? I hadn't read any of the plays, of course, but an uncle of mine did, and he spoke very highly of them. Penny, Shakespeare was one of the greatest masters of the English language, whoever lived. Well, I can understand you're being impressed by that being a yank. But I've been speaking the English language all my life. You certainly have.  Oh, yes. He's dead. Oh, that's too bad. Well, thank you very much, Penny. Oh, don't mention it, sir, any time at all. Oh, excuse me, sir, the door. Sorry, dear. I'm afraid Penny didn't help much. No, I wouldn't say that she had made my regimental buttons any more secure, but it was a good try, Vicki. Toddy, quick, before Dr. Bromley comes in, tell me more about him so I can talk to him. Well, one of the things he did was to clear up the mystery of the second best bed. The second best bed? Yes, you see, Shakespeare was quite wealthy when he died, and yet in his will he left his wife only his second best bed. Scholars speculated for years about that. Yeah, I bet the neighbors did, too. Yes, very, very well. Mr. Merryweather, sir. Oh, thank you, Penny. Good afternoon, Mr. Merryweather. Hello, hall. Good to see you again. More than good to see you, ma'am. Oh, thank you, Mr. Merryweather. You're looking very fit. Ah, feeling very fit. Winked at a pretty girl this morning, she winked right back. Thing like that's a tonic to a man by age. Well, isn't Dr. Bromley with you? Oh, he'll be here later. He's inspecting the library. I couldn't wait to have a business appointment a little later. Dr. Hall, I have good news. I've got Bromley on the verge of joining our faculty. No. Yes, I was introduced to him. After that opening in the English department, decided he was the one to fill it. Oh, that's wonderful. How in the world did you manage? I've heard he's turned down scores of offers. Well, simply reason with the man. Look here, I said, and so on and so on and so on. Yes, he answered, but what about this and that? Well, it's all very good, I said, but it carries no weight whatsoever when you take such and such into consideration. And I clenched it. Frank, I can see where it would. It's a very potent argument. Anyway, I persuaded him to visit Ivy for a few hours, and all you have to do is wind up the deal. I still don't understand. Surely some of the positions he's rejected carry much larger salaries than anything we can offer? Well, he mentioned that, but he added it with no criteria, and seems to place all the weight on the fact that not one of the college presidents with whom he's spoken since his return from Oxford could answer a very simple question. Not one. It's shocking, don't you think? I should be very interested in knowing what the question is. Well, what was it again? Oh, yes. What was William Shakespeare like personally? Telling that in these hours. Mr. Merriweather, let me assure you that is not a simple question. I have no idea why Dr. Bromley would accept or reject a post on such a fantastic basis, but no one has ever answered that question to anyone else's satisfaction. We have no way of knowing what Shakespeare thought or felt about anything. Oh, I don't agree. Now, what about that line in, and I forget which play, where, what's his name?  Yes, well, that line, notwithstanding, one cannot deduce the Bard's personality from his work any more than one can tell what sort of a man Henry Ford was by examining a model T. Well, I'm stunned by what you tell me, Hall. I'm only a layman, but even I know something about him. He was an excellent businessman, a shrewd market manipulator. Now, from which of his plays did you get that information, Mr. Merriweather? Mrs. Hall, I appeal to you. Oh, please, doge. I don't know anything about him. Never even had a walk on in one of his plays. He wrote in so few dance routines. I don't know what to say. I've already telegraphed other members of the board. We'd signed up, Brownlee. Wasn't that a tribal hasty, Mr. Merriweather? Well, I suppose it was, but I've always had such confidence in your ability. Till now? Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but under the circumstances, it's unavoidable. I suppose so. I'll try to make that very clear to the rest of the board. What's he going? I'll inform you of Brownlee's decision as soon as I talk to him. It's not worth the trouble, is it? Oh, good afternoon, ma'am. Good afternoon. Oh, one moment, doctor. What is it? Your sleeve, allow me. One of your buttons, hanging by a thread. Good day. I was curious. I tasted it. Now I know why Schlitz is the beer that made Milwaukee famous. We'll return to the Halls of Ivy, starring Mr. and Mrs. Ronald Coleman in just a moment.  Well, I was traveling alone, and I came into the club car late. The earlier arrivals had already formed the quick-fleeting friendships of travel. The sales manager from Omaha and the newspaper man from St. Louis were playing canasta like lifelong buddies. The founder man from Michigan was talking politics with a department store buyer from Pittsburgh, and so it was all over the car. Being a research man who works alone a lot, I don't find it too easy to meet people. So I was feeling like the odd man at a family dinner party when the waiter asked me, what will you have, sir? Well, while I'd been studying my traveling companions, I'd noticed how many of them had bottles of Schlitz beer in front of them. I'd noticed too how inviting the beer looked in the glass and the satisfied look on the faces of those who were drinking it. Honestly, they could have been in a Schlitz magazine ad. So I said, Schlitz, please. I figured a beer must be something special to have that many close friends in one club car. When the waiter came back, I found out I was right. I took a deep swallow of that Schlitz beer. I guess the same satisfied look I'd seen on the others must have come over my face. All I know is the man across from me grinned and said, I know what you're thinking and I agree with you. It's no wonder they call Schlitz the beer that made Milwaukee famous. That's the wrong to do. To be or not to be ready to answer Dr. Brownlee's question. That's what's troubling Dr. Hall, as he says. Oh, the devil, should I know what Shakespeare is like personally? Many whether there's no reason to expect I should. If at my age I must be a quiz kid, at least let the questions be something. Yes, what is it, Penny? Nothing, sir. I've only brought the tea. You did say tea for four, didn't you, Miss? Yes, I did, but of course I was wondering whether there's enough hot water. There is indeed plenty of hot water, plenty. Professor All? Yes. Regarding what we was talking about before, Shakespeare, I've remembered something else. They referred to him as the bird of Avon. They may shortly refer to me as the dead pigeon of Ivory. Thank you, Penny, that'll be all. Yes, sir. Would you like some tea now, Toddy? Oh, I think we'd better wait for Brownlee. He's certainly taking his time about it, isn't he? Well, after all, life around at college is always leisurely. Yes, it is. Are you ever sorry you're married into such a life? Don't you sometimes find it boring? Toddy, let me tell you something. Before we met, I'd been proposed to by a big game hunter, a test pilot, and a chemist doing research in high explosives. And frankly, compared to the pickles in which you find yourself, I suspect any of them would have been good and dull. I don't think I'm in such a bad predicament this time, Victoria. It's only that it may be one of the straws piling up to the one that breaks the camel's back. I never know when the members of the board may start sharpening their snippers and licking their chops with eagerness. You're getting very careless with your similes, Toddy. Or are they metaphors? Metaphors.  Oh, it was nothing religious came to me. Well, I say there's little to worry about. Let them fire you if they like. A less cavalier approach to the matter, Vicki, if you don't mind. No, I mean it. Let them. I know who'll regret it first. So do I. It's a buyer's market in college, presidents. I have no desire to glut it. But over and above that, sentimental, though it may sound, I love Ivy. And I'm very keen on my job. My father went to Ivy. His father went to Ivy. My great-grandfather went to Harvard. Well, thank you, son, to Ivy. Well, you know how it is. A man always wants his children to have the good things in life he himself has missed. The devil is brumly. Are you any idea what you'll say to him when he does arrive? About Shakespeare, I mean. Well, I shall have to answer his question in some fashion if he asks it. Of course, I've always had a conception of Shakespeare. I've thought of him as someone who was very happy in his work, extremely interested in people, and a man who might have dedicated his life to a cause worthy of his efforts. It is so really important that Ivy get this Professor Bromley. I mean, is it worth all this fuss? If he were just another run-of-the-class Professor, my dear, I'd say no. But this man is one of the torch bearers of learning. One of the inspired teachers. A man with a gift of communication. Men like him, who shamefully underpaid and unrecognized beyond their own academic horizons, are still the glory of those colleges lucky enough to happen. They're the ones who are remembered down the years with affection and gratitude by the students. And if he's that kind, I hope we snag him.  I'm sure you will. I know, but it's a little late in the day to lay out any involved strategy. Well, you're not much of a campaigner, anyway, Toddy. I always think of you more as, um, spur of the moment, man. Oh, you're quite wrong, my darling.  Compared to me, Niccolò Machiavelli was a witless blunderer. Do you remember the first time I kissed you? But you didn't kiss me. I kissed you. Oh, no, you're wrong. I remember very clearly because it was the culmination of a campaign, the like of which for planning and preparation had not been seen since Austerlitz. That picnic we had on the river near Pangbourne. Remember? The major tactical problem was how to get you in my arms. But we never seemed to be alone long enough in London, so I invited you to a picnic. And no sooner had we gotten out of the car and strolled down to the river through a herd of cows to feed the swans. Do you remember to bring the crumbs for the swans? Three bags full. Now, it's rather rocky here, but be careful. Oh, I'm careful. Oh, dear. What happened? Twist your ankle? Yes. I'm afraid I have a bit. See if you can stand on it. No, I can't. But sit down here on this tumble. No, I have a show to do tonight. I will look at it as soon as possible. Would you mind terribly if we went back to town? You mean right now? Yes. No. No, of course I don't mind. Well, let me lean on you. I'll hop. Don't be silly. I'll carry you. Like this. Don't you think I'll be too heavy? Not in the least. You think I'm a weakling? Oh, no. This is delightful. You're sure I'm not too heavy. I can feel your heart beating. Not because you're too heavy, believe me. I've... I've never been this close to you before. What's that scent you're wearing? It's wonderfully heady. Just me? I've never heard of it. Oh, you mean it's you? Don't you want me to put me down and take a breather? No, your light is a feather, really. I'm enjoying this enormously. Funny, I never noticed that spray of freckles across your nose. Do you like it? The freckles or the nose? Oh, a combination. Very much. And the face that goes with it. Nice coloring all over it. I think your coloring is getting a trifle high. You'd better put me... You know, it's only a few steps more to the car. You stand very relieved. But I'm not. I would like this to go on forever. It may not get a chance to hold you again. You may not live to do it unless you put me down. For that all. Or please, put me down. Very well. If you prefer... there. And the heavens say sit down beside me. Thank you. Believe me, I... will. This is all.  I can't be happy. I wish you could see your face. Funny. The way things work out. I plan a picnic. And it's over in five minutes. I attempt gallantry and lose my wind.  Now, I'm off with a kiss, and you can't catch my breath. Oh, my, in Professor Hall, I'll wait. I'll wait until the cows come home. Ah, what a lovely sound. I'm surprised no one has written a symphony around the cowbell. That isn't a cowbell, Toddy. That's the doorbell. Well, why should a cow ring a ring? Yes, I must have been daydreaming again. And didn't quite finish it. You owe me a kiss. I do, sir. Me, Penny. Oh, excuse me. Dr. Bromley could see you, sir. Oh, yes. Yes. Won't you come in, doctor? How do you do? Victoria. May I introduce Dr. Bromley? Dr. Bromley, my wife. How do you do, Mrs. Hall? It's so nice of you to call a penny the gentleman's coat and hat. No, please. I've a taxi waiting outside. I can only spend a few minutes. Oh, that's too bad. I'd hoped you might stay longer. Much, much longer. Several years, perhaps? Yes. I don't mind telling you it would be quite a feather in Ivy's cap to have you on the faculty. Thank you. And I don't mind telling you I agree wholeheartedly. I trust I don't appear immodest. I agree that I've recently acquired a fair idea of my own worth. You see, the past few months I've received 53 offers to decorate some school's bonnet.  Only recently, for 31 years of my career, the shoe was on the other foot. Dr. Hall, you know the tons of application papers an unknown professor fills out in 31 years of job hunting. State name, age, degrees, colleges, degrees, positions, salary, academic honors, administrative abilities. Well, we can't expect to be taken on when they don't know anything about us. Oh, that's very true. I appreciate that. But you can't expect me not to enjoy the turning of the tables now that I've acquired the statue that permits me to ask the questions. Yeah, I'm beginning to understand. What was Shakespeare like personally, eh? Mr. Meriwether told you that today? Well, can you answer it? Um... Tell Dr. Bromley what you've always said, William. That Shakespeare was a man who felt he'd never received the honors due to one who stood at the top of his profession. This colored his entire life. And Victorian, I... How in the world did you know? Dr. Hall, that's precisely the conclusion I've reached after half a lifetime of intense study. How in the world did you know?  Why... It's obvious.  I should like to discuss this matter further with you. How about letting me stay for dinner tonight? Oh, but of course, please do. Just let me go outside and dismiss my taxi. I'll be right back. Don't go away. Excuse me, Toddy. I want to tell Penny there'll be three for dinner. No, no, wait, wait, Victoria. How the devil did you know the answer? What do you know about Shakespeare? All I know about Shakespeare, Toddy, is that Sir Lawrence Olivier did a lovely job with Hamlet. Yes, I know. But you see, I do know a little about people. When I heard Mr. Merriweather describe him as a businessman, which Mr. Merriweather is, and you describe him as a man who loved his work, which you do, it occurred to me that Dr. Bromley might also see him as a man very like himself. That's all. Excuse me. I simply must tell you... No, no, no, one minute, Vicki. I want you to say all that again. Why don't you phone and see if you can reach Mr. Merriweather with a good news? I will. I'll be back with you in a few minutes. Hello, Mr. Merriweather. This is Dr. Hall. I wanted you to know that through your initiative and Mrs. Hall's great knowledge of the classics, Dr. Bromley has decided to join our faculty. Yes, yes, I'm extremely gratified. Anything I have done is, as my students would say, strictly off the cuff. Which reminds me, Mr. Merriweather, remember that loose button on my cuff? I fixed it. I was curious. I tasted it. Now I know why Schlitz is the beer that made Milwaukee famous. I'm Mr. Mrs. Ronald Coleman. Darling, you signed him up. I knew you'd do it. My dear girl, like most men, I am capable of some amazing self-delusions, but not on this score. I know who gave Bromley the answer which convinced him that Ivy was his spiritual home. Isn't it awful the way I keep batting in? Was it Shakespeare or Dr. Hall who said, a man proposes, but woman disposes? I'm sure I don't know. Why? Oh, I was just thinking that since I proposed to you, my darling, my life has been so well-disposed. Well done. Thank you, dear. You're not at all, darling. Good night, everyone. Good night. Let's break at this time at the Halls of Ivy, starring Mr. and Mrs. Ronald Coleman. The other players were Leonard Waterman, Gloria Gordon, and William Johnstone. Tonight's script was written by Walter Brown Newman and Don Quinn. The music was composed and conducted by Henry Russell. The Halls of Ivy was created by Don Quinn, directed by Nat Wolfe, and presented by the Jaws of Schlitz Brewing Company of Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Ken Carpenter speaking. Oh, we love the hall that's around us here today.