Good morning everyone. Thank you for joining us at this very important session. Welcome to the World Economic Forum, CNBC Debate, the future of the Eurozone. How will the Eurozone economies emerge from the current crisis? Before we begin and I introduce our special panelists this morning, let's take a listen on how this has played out on CNBC. Look at this. We are going to be showing you some clips right now of some business leaders and heads of state who have discussed the happenings in Europe over the last six months and the preceding two years. We want to get their take on what has occurred in the preceding two years and where are we today? After you hear from these distinguished people, having spoken about the events in the Eurozone, we will hear from our distinguished panel on where we are today. Once again, take a listen. Let's come outside the parliament and form the police line. They have no doubt whatsoever about the strength of the Euro, about its permanence, about its irreversibility. We need to take decisive action to help stabilize the Eurozone. We's future is within the Eurozone. $146 billion for a nation which is only 2.5% of the Eurozone GDP and they think that if Greece goes, other bigger nations could go. Failure to resolve that situation would pose threats to the European financial systems, the global financial system. The authorities will do whatever it takes to hold the system together. The alternative is just too terrible to contemplate. The biggest headwind the American economy is facing right now is uncertainty factor. I have decided on my own counsel to step down as leader of the Unified. Waiting news, the Portuguese Prime Minister Socrates has finally expecting to get the announcement on the new free government. It's only a promise at the moment. From the Italian Prime Minister, Silva Berluskeli, that he'll step down. We just heard that the ruling Spanish party has just lost the election. It's often discussed that leaving the Euro is an option for Greece. I think this is really not an option. What I think is needed is to extract more in terms of overall productivity and competitiveness of Europe by finally creating a really deeply single market. We must all draw the lessons from the ongoing crisis and help to solve it. And this goes for the financial sector as well. The ECB is the only really functioning European institution, whether they like it or not. Gaining credibility is a long and laborious process. Maintaining is a permanent challenge, but losing credibility can happen very, very quickly. And joining me right now on stage to discuss the developments and where we are right now, all the way to my left, Wolfgang Scheuble, German finance minister, Francois Baron, French finance minister, Louise de Guindos, a Spanish economy minister, and Oli Ren, European Monetary Affairs Commissioner. Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time and for speaking to us today. We just heard Mario Draghi say that confidence is the most critical part here. Minister Baron has the most recent facility by the ECB instilled stability and confidence in terms of where we are right now. Hello to everybody. Mario Draghi took a decision with the governing council of the ECB, which was a very important decision in the framework of the agreement at the 9th of December. There was a debate between France and Germany, as you know, within the Eurozone about the status of the European Central Bank and about its qualifications, lender of last resort. Now, some of us in the world in general and within the European Union consider that it was a reasonable debate. Now, the debate no longer exists because the case law in Strasbourg, the case law in Europe, Monty, Merkel and Sarkozy have decided that the ECB will no longer be at the centre of the debate. The ECB is considered independent. It has its own policy and we can certainly say whether we think that this or that decision is right. But the unlimited amount of liquidity for banks for three years at 1% has considerably reduced the tensions in the European banking industry and it's very important because it will enable us to restore confidence gradually. But it's not enough, of course. There will have to be more tranches. We'll have to confirm the agreement of the 9th of December on the two issues of the agreement between the heads of state of government in the 9th of December. A fiscal issue, a treaty, ratification of the treaty and a solidarity issue and thought about how we can together continue to support growth. Minister Scherbley, how do you see it? In German and France, see it basically in a very same way. The cause of the crisis is basically the fact that there has been a lack of fiscal discipline in a number of countries in the Eurozone and a lack of competitiveness of a number of countries. If we want to overcome the crisis, if we want to restore the confidence which has been lost, as Mario Draghi has just said in this clip, then what we have to do is first of all to fight against the causes of the crisis. In other words, that's something that has to be done in the relevant countries. That is happening and where it's happening, the developments on the markets are positive. That's the case in Italy, it's the case in Spain. We're seeing that confidence is gradually being restored. Second thing is that we need a better structure for the European currency. This is what we're doing with the fiscal compact and with the European stability mechanism and the agreement has been reached by finance ministers this week and it will be put before the heads of state and government on Monday and we hope that we can sign it in February and we shall be able to bring it into force very soon and we hope that we can quickly pay capital to it and the fiscal compact will do something which we haven't had enough of so far, which is institutions and rules which make it possible for us to agree on a common fiscal policy in Europe and then of course we must also strengthen the competitiveness of European countries and that is the task that the European Council will have on its agenda next Monday and of course these things don't happen overnight and while these things are happening we need solidarity. This is the solidarity mechanism, this is something which the ECB is doing in its independence of course but it's doing what is necessary and we must make sure that we don't set the wrong signals, the wrong incentives. We mustn't prevent things that must happen from happening first but if we all act together then we're on the right track and we shall do everything we need to do and the European Union will have a stable currency and if we will be able to deal with the debt problems in other parts of the world which are bigger than they are in the Eurozone. We will get back to the comment you made. We must prevent things from happening because I think that we all would like to know specifically more on that comment but Minister Gindos from your standpoint how do you achieve what Minister Schwerble is saying in terms of solidarity rather and unity? Well I am in broad agreement with what François and Wolfgang have said about liquidity. Liquidity is not the final cure to the problems that we have right now in the Eurozone. It's a helping hand but not the final cure but I think that they fully agree also that what we have to do is to first of all to put our houses in order to advance in fiscal consolidation to avoid and to circumvent the problems that we made in the past in terms of public deficit and excessive level of debt and simultaneously and I think that this is going to be in the agenda over the next months and weeks to try to take the measures to foster growth and I think that we are going to speak more and more about growth and employment and I think that that will be the agenda of the next weeks. We are very close to have a new institutional framework that I think that will be extremely useful to avoid the mistakes and the flaws that we had in the past and simultaneously I think that we have to bring to the fore the agenda of growth, of reforms, of employment. Isn't this the crux though of the problem in terms of moving forward? Ali Ren, how do you achieve growth in a moment of time when you actually are implementing austerity? That is indeed the key question for Europe at this juncture and in order to create foundations for sustainable growth and job creation we first have to resolve the sovereign debt crisis and mitigate the banking sector facilities. Why so? Because this is essentially a crisis of confidence and in order to resolve this crisis of confidence we have to do things like the European Central Bank has been doing. I find the ECB actions very important in terms of avoiding a credit crunch in the European economy and also facilitating some more favourable bond auctions of say Italy, Spain and also the return of Ireland to the bond market in the last couple of days. So the ECB actions are important but of course not enough alone and therefore we need to have focus on basically three things. We need a new fiscal compact and we are in fact revamping the institutional architecture of Europe so that we are soon going to have an Economic Monetary Union Mark II. It is going to be a very different structure than the previous one and in the new structure prevention is the name of the game we want to prevent the kind of fiscal crisis or external imbalances that have happened in the past years with terrible economic and human costs. Second, we need stronger European financial firewalls and we are working this out in these weeks and I expect that we can come to a positive conclusion where we also need support from our American and British friends in a sense that we need to increase the resources of the International Monetary Fund and third, yes, we need a focus on reforms and growth employment as Louis and his colleagues were saying and in this regard I would draw your attention to the fact that we have in fact reforms going on in Europe. Italy is moving faster in its structural reforms Spain is moving and in fact all the European Union Member States are doing their part both in fiscal consolidation and in terms of structural reforms. So we have a somewhat better sentiment for the moment. Now it is not the time for us to go further, it is time to further build confidence and that's why the coming days are so important because we are going to finalise some important decisions that will facilitate better confidence in the European economy so that we can release and liberate the Keynesian animal spirits for growth investment and employment and who does not believe in the animal spirits does not believe in the market economy. Olli you said some very important themes there and I would like all of your commentary on this. Let me first take on the firewalls how much bigger and deeper firewalls would you like to see? What are we talking about? What's your expectation? We have already decided that the new permanent European stability mechanism will have a capital base of 700 billion euros which will provide an effective lending capacity of 500 billion euros. Now we have in operation a temporary European financial stability facility which has consumed some around 100 something and with the new Greek program we'll have something about 200 billion euros probably which leaves around 250 billion euros in this temporary EFSF. The question will be whether we can combine this to the ESM and the EFSF. That's something that the ministers and the leaders of the Eurozone will have to discuss and decide in the coming weeks. In parallel with the IMF where Christine Lagarde has made a request for an increase of 500 billion euros. The Eurozone has committed already 150 billion euros so you can calculate in which ballpark, in which range of hundreds of billions we are talking about when we talk about reinforced financial firewalls for the sake of providing financial stability in Europe. Chancellor Merkel has made some bold statements about the long term and what needs to be done over the long term. But as we sit here today the short term seems quite critical as we await a decision between Greece and its creditors what is the plan over the short term? First of all Marcus you never must do the opposite in the short term but in the long term because if you want to regain credibility you have to do the same in the same direction in the short term in the long term. That is one of the critical issues and therefore we are working on fighting the reasons of the crisis and we will have do what is needed and we will decide what will be needed to buy the necessary time we need to. In the short term we are negotiating with Greece Greece is a very specific case. You can't take any consequence for any other member states in the euro. It is totally different. It is a very specific case in Greece. We need a reduction of the deaths and it has been approved that Greece has to be reduced by 50% and we are negotiating the final negotiations and we were very clear on Monday in the euro group that we need for a new program for Greece a death sustainability and that means the overall death in Greece not over 120% GDP in 2020. That has to be achieved. It is not easy but it is possible and it will be done in the coming days. I am quite optimistic. Then we need a new program in Greece and Greece has and that is maybe the most critical issue and we discussed it very clear on Monday and Maria Draghi, the ECB was very clear Greece has not only to commit itself, Greece has to deliver because Greece has committed itself two years ago and not all of the commitments has been delivered and fulfilled and that is one of the critical issues to regain confidence and that must have to be done in Greece and we must not give the wrong incentives no firewall. You can make any firewall, any figure. It will not work if the real problems will not be solved. I would like to get all of your takes on something that has been talked about very much in the market and that is of course a default in Greece. What is the worst case scenario? Many people expect Greece to default. What is the worst case scenario? We don't expect the default in Greece. I know that most participants in markets have lengths for a long time in prices but I don't expect the default in Greece. I am sure that if everybody is ready to deliver what has been agreed and all the partners of Greece are ready to do it, we will avoid we can avoid and we will avoid a default of Greece but of course the private sector has to take its responsibility. That has been agreed first time in July, in the summit of July last year it's not a new story discussing the concrete figures and I am quite optimistic we can avoid it but it depends on that Greece is ready to deliver and to fulfil its commitment. Let me say first of all with the greatest respect I have for my colleagues we're not here in a negotiating session of the Eurogroup because the question that you raised about the firewall is an essential question in our discussions with Wolfgang and other colleagues we consider and France defends this position that the higher the firewall the less it will have to be used that's the deterrent effect one of the lessons we control from the crisis is that we have to deal with the Greek case, avoid contagion put in place and make arrangements necessary for fiscal consolidation for fiscal economic convergence so that discipline means something, there have to be sanctions we've found the balance in our discussions with Wolfgang and other colleagues about the level of structural deficit about the level of reference for the growth and stability pact we still have a slight debate about the reference, the benchmark for the debt that's a part of our discussions and we must advance at the same pace with the same intensity on the issue of solidarity and the issue of solidarity has already taken form we're anticipating the permanent protection mechanism we're bringing it forward by almost six months and if we can bring it forward even faster we shall do it but we brought it forward already by six months is to accompany the idea that the firewall is probably one of the best responses but that's one of the issues I must say that we haven't dealt with this finally today but it will be on the agenda of our leaders on Monday I also think that it's very simple to try to focalize the future of the eurozone on the problems of Greece with its creditors but I think that this is an oversimplification I think that much more important than that is the actions that I think that we are taking in order to improve the institutional framework of the eurozone in the future to avoid the mistakes that we made in the past and to have a much more united common currency area and in that regard I think that for instance the discussion that we are having about the fiscal compact even the willing and the purpose of the different garments to deliver I think that it's going to be the key element in that regard for sure that we are going to need firewalls, backstops with ample liquidity with a lot of resources but I think that at the end of the day the vital element to restore confidence on the future of the eurozone is going to be the institutional framework that we are going to put in place and simultaneously the degree of commitment of the domestic governments with this institutional framework and with the rest of the partners of the eurozone and in that regard the perception I am the younger arriving to office but the perception that I have and the perception that I have obtained is that there is a growing consensus that this is the way forward we have a problem with Greece, we have a problem with other countries of the past, but we have a concrete consensus that in the future we are going to try to avoid and we will act preemptively to avoid the problems that we had in the past but let me follow up and ask the same question that minister Scherbley answered a moment ago the long term plan is in place, everyone agrees on the long term objectives but what about the short term? but I think that the difference between the long term and the short term as Wolfgang has said is more confusing than many think if we start to create a credible plan that creates confidence in the short term I think that we are putting the first steps in order to alleviate the shorter pressure that we are suffering right now again, it's very easy to think and to elaborate on the Greek situation but I think that is much more important to have a credible plan in terms of fiscal union in terms of corporate governments in terms of commitment from the different member countries with this new situation I think that that would alleviate many of the jittery that we are seeing right now in the markets so how big of a firewall would you like to see? I would not say any figure so big enough and flexible enough to avoid using it and in order to avoid using this firewall I think that the main element that we have to take into consideration the main element that we have to take in place is a new fiscal framework a new corporate governance framework and simultaneously the commitment the clear commitment of the different governments with fiscal austerity and with structural reform I think that if we have these three pillars in place you know firewalls are there not to be used to be a sort of deterrence Paul-Iran, I'd like to get your comments on all of this but from what you've heard so far will this be enough to calm the markets and stop any dislocation which of course would accelerate the problem I have a long time ago stopped predicting the behavior of the markets on the basis of policy decisions but having said this I think for the market forces who are present in this audience I think there is one I mean there are many but one very important observation you can make there is in fact quite strong unity among the ministers of the Eurozone and the European institutions as well as it guards how we need to tackle this crisis and in fact while I know more or less how the Eurozone will look like say in three years I must say that the next three days will be very crucial for that future of in three years in other words we are just about to close a deal on private sector involvement between the Greek government and the private creditor community if not today maybe over the weekend but in any case preferably still in January rather than in February we are very close and we have to have a sustainable solution for Greece even if as Wolfgang said Greece is a special and unique case and private sector involvement in that sense will not be applied to any other country of the Eurozone and then we have two very important decisions related to this basic fair deal between reinforced fiscal discipline on the one hand and reinforced financial firewalls on the other hand the treaty on new fiscal compact will be finalized on Monday which will help create a much sturdier framework of the Eurozone economic governance and then in parallel the treaty on European stability mechanism will be concluded this will be a very important three-day period for reinforcing confidence into the Eurozone and I'm sure that we will succeed in these decisions and I hope of course that it will have a positive confidence-building impact on the market sentiment let's talk about some of the ideas out there Minister Scherbley talk to us about the possibility of a Eurobond do we need a Eurobond? Mario Monti backed the idea before becoming Prime Minister who pays and what are the terms? the problem of Eurobonds is as long as you don't have a structure in the European institutions in the European treaties to have similar structure for the fiscal policy we have for the monetary policy because the very specific situation in the European currency is we have a European common monetary policy no member state has sovereignty only in monetary policy that is the very specific it's difficult to understand if you are abroad from Europe but in Europe we gave up parts of national sovereignty to the European institutions in the monetary policies a European we have a national fiscal policy and that makes the problem as long as we have not something like we are now doing a fiscal union to have a similar construction for fiscal discipline as long common bonds gave the wrong incentives because you may you spend money you don't have on the bill of others and that is a wrong incentive in a functioning market economy at the end you have to pay your bills if you spend on the on the risk of others it's a temptation everyone will fail in avoiding such a temptation and therefore we have to concentrate on building the structure for fiscal and even for better competitiveness in the fiscal union we knew when we created the European currency we knew that we will build we have to build in the coming years something like a political union it's a European integration it always has always been a method going step by step if you want to start with 100% you would never have achieved one step in European interest if you go step by step what we did since the early 50s we have been in the long run we have been tremendously successful and we will be in the future successful I'm convinced that it is on the long term the better way of building something like international or global governance in going step by step in building such structures and not otherwise but as long as we have we must not give the wrong incentives and therefore it would be sent the wrong message in fighting the real causes of the given crisis I would tend to agree with Wolfgang and in my view in fact for any serious move concerning some kind of Euro bonds the necessary condition is a substantial reinforcement of economic governance of the European Union to create an ever closer economic or stability union and in fact I want to give you one example how this works because it is already moving forward we talk about the new fiscal compact next Monday that's important as a very profound political commitment of the national parliament but at the same time we have already existing secondary legislation which entered into force mid December and because of that I sent I sent early warning letters to five member states Belgium Cyprus Malta, Hungary and Poland around mid November indicating that their fiscal targets in 2012 are likely to be missed unless they take additional measures and if they do not take additional measures then we may have to resort to financial sanctions i.e. fines for the eurozone countries what happened four out of these five countries took action Cyprus twice just before Christmas very difficult discussions in the parliament cutting its deficit from about five percent to around two and a half percent Belgium after difficult discussions in the coalition government coming down from four and a half percent to two point seven, two point eight percent of fiscal deficit you see that this six pack as we call this new legislation the six pack is already working and delivering and we will further enforce this once we get the new treaty on fiscal compact in force one final comment on this I find the German council of economic advisers proposal on a debt redemption pact or debt redemption fund as very smart and potentially doable which is certainly worth exploring further it has some resemblance to the American audience some resemblance to the events in the United States of America around 1790 when the first Secretary of the US Alexander Hamilton pushed through the assumption of the state debt following the Revolutionary War and created what we could call the United States of America which by the way became the foundation of the federal economic government for the United States of America and the success of this in the past two hundred and twelve years should not be underestimated on this side of the Atlantic I want you to jump in I think that Euro bonds perhaps are the final target but I think that as Wolfgang has mentioned that we have to take a lot of steps before and that we are doing that but I would like to stress and I think that this is important the importance of the political commitment of the different member states I remember in 2003 when France and Germany bridged the rules of the stability and growth pact and I think that because of that decision we lost a lot of legitimacy to impose fiscal austerity to Greece so this is something that we cannot repeat again and I think that is not only a question of the governance the fiscal compact etc we need much more compromise and commitment from the different governments with the importance of fiscal discipline and with the importance of a common competitive approach to economic policy among the different members of the Eurozone what about in discussing the participation of the ECB should the ECB take a haircut the way the private sector would I don't think so we are discussing about the private sector involvement I think that that kind of haircut might impair the monetary mechanism of monetary policy that now is implemented by the ECB so I think that the ECB should not be involved in any kind of public sector involvement instead of private sector involvement as the private sector we are discussing with the Greek government and I hope as Oli has mentioned that we will reach an agreement quite soon I think we have the same position on the Euro bonds outside the Eurozone they are seen as the kind of philosophy of stone the ultimate answer to the international crisis the epicenter of which is the Eurozone Eurobone bonds well it means mutualising debts but doing that in countries where the main question is sovereign debt the other main question is how to fuel growth given that we have to move forward on those two tracks if we mutualise debt we don't solve the basic problem which is the creation of the monetary zone which hasn't been created in an optimal fashion what we decided in December is firstly to put our house in order that means fiscal discipline that means coordination that means convergence and that means solidarity it is the path of solidarity and that path is not Eurobone it involves firewalls now down that path when states have respected their commitments on debt the situation is stable when confidence exists without any doubt in the market then the time will be right for Eurobonds but that cannot be a solution to the crisis as it stands at the moment but rather the ultimate outcome we would like to get the audience involved and open the session to Q&A we have microphones walking around and in the meantime while we get a microphone to you I want to play a sound bite from George Suros and Minister Scherbley let me read this to you George Suros says that the on the policies out of Germany the policies Germany is pushing on the Eurozone is creating a deflationary debt spiral putting pressure on wages and profits and depresses reduces tax returns and the debt is expressed in nominal terms GDP to debt GDP declines and the debt ratio goes against you this is the trap that we are caught in today overcome the short term and this is the short term this could lead to a lost decade how worried are you about a lost decade I don't agree with George Suros not surprisingly and I would like to tell him and to tell you to tell the audience if you want to create more growth you can't deliver this only by spending more public money and increasing the deficits even in the Anglo-Saxonian economy we got the report from that if you have achieved some great of public deficit increasing deficit is counterproductive in creating growth therefore you need structural reforms and therefore we concentrate in Europe not on increasing the deficit which are even too high but in structural reforms and I was I have been finance minister since a little bit more than two years at the very beginning I was asked how will you deliver your obligations to the European pact on stability and growth on behalf of the German deficit I said my reaction was we will the government has decided to do it some months later I was criticized oh you are reducing your deficit too quickly and you destroy growth some months later in Germany growth by 3.7 in 2010 3.0 in 2011 and Tim Geidner our good friend came over to Berlin and said oh we will make American fiscal policy more German like because in Germany I don't know how it works in the United States in Germany and I think in Europe it's clear if you want to have more internal demand for investment and for consumption you have to deliver some confidence if you reduce your deficit if you make your deficit sustainable in Germany it works people regain confidence the actual figures of private consumption in Germany are very sufficient and therefore the German economic outlook is driven by internal demand and we can destroy it in increasing the deficit and we can support it and therefore we have to go for structural reforms and that is a better way we have two quick comments here from Minister Gindos and then Ole Rehn and we have a question then following just a short remark I come from the country that put in place the largest fiscal stimulus in the Eurozone from a surplus of 2% in 2007 to a deficit of 11% two years later and in Spain simultaneously to this fiscal stimulus we had the largest deterioration of the labor market that we have ever seen so I think that we should be careful in considering the implications that a fiscal expansion has on the economy because now in Spain we are having difficulties from the financial standpoint because well this fiscal stimulus was mistaken so I think that this is much more important in order to create confidence as Wolfgang Schatz mentioned to put your fiscal accounts on a sustainable path and simultaneously implementing an aggressive and ample agenda of structural reforms we are having briefly a global and long-term view on this discussion in fact inspired by Jean-Claude Trichet's wise words in one of the yesterday's discussions if you look at the previous decades and the crisis in previous decades we have the cases of Latin America in the 1980s since 1982 then we have and we have in fact the cases of several European countries in the 1990s what has been the lesson in all these cases they have taken structural reforms and reinforced the sustainability of their public finances as the foundation of solid and sustainable economic growth and as a result Latin America overall look at Brazil rather resilient even in the current global difficulties financial crisis Asia, the same story much more resilient in the current financial crisis and in Europe if you look at the countries who went through a similar kind of experience they are now more resilient in the 1980s the Netherlands and Denmark 30 years ago Denmark was almost the basket case of Europe now it is very resilient and one of the model economies in Europe in the 1990s Finland and Sweden very serious banking crisis serious problems of external balances now doing relatively well and Germany in the past decade I think this is an encouraging example of the importance and structural reforms in Europe and global. We have to get two questions in here on the second row and then I have Minister Baron first here in the second row and then I'm coming in the back. Thank you, it's Luigi Boutillon from Brevan Howard last time management. I want to take advantage of the joint presence of the Spanish Economic Minister and of Commissioner Rehn to ask them a question also leveraging of what they just commented today. I see the Spanish minister basically wants to do all he can to keep his hours in order and also hear from Commissioner Rehn that he sent five letters in the past to countries which were deviating. Now unfortunately we speak about reassurance and confidence in the market but we as market participants would like to know for instance from the Spanish Economic Minister what they're going to do to put their house in order this year. As we know on the last day of last year there was a substantial overshooting of their deficit and now we are hearing some comments which we don't find very assuring concerning the meeting of their targets of 4.4% of GDP this year. I wanted to know please if you can reassure us that this target will be strictly met and what is your opinion also Commissioner Rehn if this target should be met or it should not or because the economic condition and the related issue not. Thank you. Please. It's totally right that the new government of Spain arrived in office on December 23 and on December 26 learned that we had a sleep page in the public accounts of two full percentage points of GDP and three days after took action to reduce and to rein in the public deficit by 1.5% of GDP in increasing the taxes tax on personal revenues. Simultaneously today the Spanish cabinet is taking an action to control and to impose much more transparency on the regions that is generally regarded as one of the main sources of the deviation that you have mentioned before. So we will have much more commitment, much more compromise from the regions in terms of public consolidation of public account consolidation and simultaneously what I have to say is that the rule that we are going to have for the Spanish regions and for the Spanish entire government is going to be even stricter than the rules set in Brussels for the rest of the members of the eurozone. And finally with respect to you know your comments on the future of the path of fiscal consolidation but I have to say is that the strategy of the Spanish government is going to be based on a two pillar approach. Fiscal consolidation is not an option this is something that I have mentioned a lot of times but simultaneously we have to pay a lot of attention and I think that this is going to be vital to the banking industry restructuring and to the labor market reform. Spain is a country with an employment rate of 23% of the labor force. This is something that we cannot accept at all. And I think that this is going to be the vital element of stress and of importance and the main priority that in the agenda of the new government. I expect that over the next weeks the new government will put forward a reform of the banking industry and simultaneously an ample, profound and important reform of the labor market. How much capital does the banking industry need? This is not a question of capital. What we have seen is that there is the need of further provisioning by the Spanish banks because there is a gap between the book value and the market value of the assets, especially the real estate assets. I think it is of course regrettable that the fiscal targets of last year were missed and therefore it was very important that the new government as its first act before the end of last year took action in order to reduce the gap for this year. And I see that the actions government is planning are essential and necessary and fiscal consolidation and structural reforms are complementary of course not alternatives and it is important that Spain will meet its fiscal targets this year in order to achieve its target also next year below 3 percent and at the same time it is very important to maintain this strong momentum of structural reforms both in the banking sector as Louis referred to and also in the labor market in order to reform its institutions and its functioning because the unemployment of 23 percent and youth unemployment of 40-45 percent is something that no society can for long sustain. Very quickly Minister Baron you wanted to address the debt concern as well as growth a moment ago please do. In this debate that exists between consolidation and growth we have to reduce debt we have to do it according to a specific time scale in France we will be we will meet our targets we should be at 5.7 we will probably be under 5.5 and we will work to produce growth now we will be doing that by focusing on the cost of labor and we will be lowering the cost of labor and financing it that will be the way that France will be supporting growth Germany I'm sure will be making its contribution in another way each country will do it in their own way. Is labor reform the most important point on the agenda right now for France? Quite right. And for Germany? Minister Shebley? No for Germany I think our most important thing is to look that we have innovations in infrastructure that in place because we have increasing hesitance in public opinion in investments in increasing infrastructure for communication and so on that has to we have to discuss it we have to fight for new technologies because on the basic of our demography we have to know that we have to stick on innovation otherwise we will not be able in future to stick to the relative level of wealth and stability we have in Germany up to now we are very successful but we must not think that is granted for the future we have to stick on this and therefore it's a European matter for example we will work together for something for use employment, for use training on a European level it's quite important we can have a win-win situation if we make a European market for training young generation and something else. It seems like a luxury to be talking about investing in innovation at this very critical time in terms of deficits and austerity put in place. Look we have in reducing our deficit we have increased our our budget figures for for science, for research you have to concentrate if you reducing deficit does not mean you cut every expansion you have to look where are the investments for future and therefore we did it and we are going to do so and that's what we do in all European member states and also European level and that is the real content of the European summit on Monday. We have a question in the back, please. Thank you very much. My name is Ana Maria Coratzabil, I am a member of the European Parliament for Sweden. Last week we have voted a very clear decision on international relations and the future of the European Parliament. We have taken a decision cross political groups asking in the negotiation of the new treaty to take into consideration one the community approach two, that everyone should sit around the table. 27 plus the president of the European Parliament. Three, that European law is respected stage of the negotiation to take into account the voice of the 500 million people of Europe that we do represent and not to undermine the common institutions and keep transparency of openness of the decision-making process thank you very much. Who would like to address this? Yes please Minister. I would like to first of all I would like to give you the mobile number of David come on. Of course this is it's not a joke we would it would be much more it's much better and better to understand for everyone outside of Europe if we would do what we are now to have to do in our in our fiscal competition in the framework of the European treaties but that has to be done by by anonymous decisions that is the basic of European treaty therefore we go for the me for meantime we go 17 plus I hope plus plus nine everyone is invited to join and of course we will make we are in favor in the treaty to make who everyone who signs the treaty will take part in the decisions in the treaty and we will invite the European Parliament to take responsibility of course that is much easier on behalf of the treaties on the basic is it would be introduced in the treaties therefore on Monday we agreed in the Euro group we will be in favor to implement it in the treaty not only in five years but in three years and that I hope we can convince all our friends in the European Union only would you like to add to that well in fact I think Wolfgang Wolfgang said the essential but I want to add one aspect and I can tell John Murray that the Commission by and large sees eye to eye with the Parliament as regards the reform of of economic governance and this treaty as well I think it's very important that and largely thanks to the European Parliament the community method is fully restored and in fact even reinforced in the new fiscal compact so that once the new fiscal compact will be agreed on Monday then the Commission in the coming days will supplement the already existing secondary legislation the six pieces of legislation reinforcing economic governance which we call the six pack and we will make concrete proposals so that while the treaty is a very important the political commitment at the same time it's a concrete and practical implementation will be done through the secondary legislation which means precisely through the community method which is the method that makes the European Union to work and to deliver results we would like to take more questions but we also want to keep you on time so I'd like to thank this distinguished panel and thank you for joining us please stay tuned for the next session


I have a beaker full of water that is boiling. We have a wire gaze and a candle which is heating the water. What do you think will happen when I bring this steel plate on top of the water vapor, on top of the water that is boiling? Why don't you predict that? Why don't you take five seconds and think what will happen if I bring this steel plate right at this near, near the top of the beaker right over here. Okay, let's see. So I'm keeping the steel plate very close, very close to the top of the beaker. Well, I see something happening. I see these water droplets being formed on the steel plate. Why is that happening? Well, it turns out the water that is boiling, you see the water vapor rising, right? When it comes into contact with something cool like a steel plate, the water vapor starts changing into water droplets and that is the process of condensation. The process of vapor changing into liquid. So there you go.  Just have a glass full of cold water and when you just let it sit for some time, you can see those water droplets being formed around the glass. That is also condensation. And where did these droplets come from? Well, the air around the cold glass, it also has some water vapor and when that water vapor comes into contact with this cool glass, it starts condensing. That is it starts changing back to liquid form and that is why you see those water droplets.


Proudly we hail from New York City where the American stage begins here is another program with a cast of outstanding players public service time has been made available by this station for your army and your Air Force to bring you this story as proudly we hail the United States Army our story is entitled the art of propaganda this is the story of our infantrymen on occupation duty in Germany and is in particular the story of PFC Bobby Van Selten whose hobby is painting a hobby that brings plenty of excitement to him and his buddies as they tangle with the plot to sell stolen French art masterpieces our first act curtain will rise in just a moment but first today you young men of America have an excellent opportunity to learn a trade that will assure your future the many fine technical schools of the United States Army are training men in such interesting fields as radio radar meteorology mechanics electronics and many others you can become a qualified technician trained to do an important job and do it right for full details about an exciting career visit your nearest United States Army recruiting station and find out all the facts today and now your army and your Air Force present the proudly we hail production the art of propaganda you'll go a long way in this man's army before you find an outfit like e-company I don't say that because it's my company there it just happens to be true the whole division knows about us the commanding general himself will tell you how our company practically won the war games for the Blue Army in West Germany last year and look who we got me out starting from the top Captain Malloy won the Medal of Honor in the Second World War we got two sergeants with silver stars transferred over from Korea Corporal Grimes is division-light heavyweight champ private Cisco pitched a no-hit ball game for the regimental team I tell you man for man and as an outfit we rate I'm telling you all this because you may have heard of Robert Van Sultan and I want you to understand that if this kid pulled off a little stunt that got splashed in headlines all over the world well we're not Bobby Van sultans in e-company isn't it I'll let you in on a little secret the first day I met Bobby Van Sultan I didn't think he was gonna work out at all no sir he made a very bad first impression he was fresh from the states newly arrived with ten other replacements and I was just finishing up my little welcoming you'll have to learn that we're a little bit of everything we're soldiers we're ambassadors and we're salesmen eight years ago we fought in this country and now we have to stay here live among the people and show them what we stand for and every one of you is an ambassador and a salesman your conduct on and off duty is a direct reflection on your country remember that you manner in my platoon and our barracks is the first one on the left you'll find your bunks and lockers your first formation is revelry tomorrow morning we fall out and fatigue any questions dismissed a sergeant yeah I wanted to ask sergeant Haynes if it's alright for me to keep this in the barracks for the rest of my equipment what the hey what's that an old-fashioned tripod for a heavy 30 caliber machine gun no sergeant it's a it's an easel come again soldier it's an easel for my canvas canvas what do you want with canvas what do you see sergeant I I try to paint whenever I get a chance paint what do you paint oh portraits landscapes sometimes I like to do some abstracts you a painter an artist well I I try to be what's your name again Van Selton I guess it's all right just dash the stuff out of sight during inspection well thanks sergeant painters artists they send me go make an infantry man out of that what do we got here a rifle company or an art school that night I was finished with my shower and I was walking through the barracks to my room there were a bunch of guys sitting around Van Selton's bunk I stopped for a minute corporal Grimes our boxing champ was sitting on a footlocker opposite him was Van Selton who was drawing something finally Van Selton looked up at Grimes and said okay finished can I see it sure he turned the picture around and we saw it well I didn't know what to think it didn't look like Grimes it didn't look like anything Grimes was kind of puzzled hey I thought you were gonna paint my picture I did what don't look like me it doesn't why are you kidding well Grimes an artist paints what he feels what he senses that's what you look like inside show this Danny one of the guys if they say that looks like me I'll eat Grimes it looks exactly like you not the way a photograph would here go ahead what do you guys think take a look at it like your Grimes I don't look like nothing at all I think it looks exactly like it I think Robbie voice kid in the public just goes paint on a canvas in the old way I took a good look at it and mind you I don't know the first thing about art but you know something in a way a way I can't explain it look like Grimes exactly but if you looked at it another way it didn't look like anything it was a weirdest picture I ever saw Grimes was getting a little upset I thought you would paint a picture I could send home to your lady I'll take it it's yours I think your mother will be proud don't I look like some kind of monster no you don't you're a guy with tremendous physical power strength that's what I tried to convey on canvas the tremendous sweep and vitality I see kids in kindergarten can draw better than that while they were talking I kept looking at the picture and all of a sudden everything in it seemed to move and click into place it was Grimes all right not only the way he looked but also if you can get this the way you felt about Grimes when you looked at him suddenly Grimes reached over and grabbed the picture now you say this is my picture belongs to me sure I can do anything I want with it of course it's yours well here's what I wanted to with it that's what I think of the picture you shouldn't have done that yeah well if you weighed 20 pounds more we'd step outside and I'd do something else I was hoping you'd understand Grimes because you're an artist too me an artist yes you're a boxer to fight as an art isn't it I'm a boxer all right but I don't kid the public when I fight everybody knows it when you paint pictures all you're doing is working a swindle you call that junk a picture yes I call it a picture even if you're too thick headed to see it look you tell me you're gonna paint my picture I said fine so you draw a picture of something that looks like a monkey okay I don't have to take any lip in the bargain you wait 20 pounds more don't lift the 20-pound stop you any time you can find some gloves right my footlock all right what are we waiting for forget it Grimes then Sultan Grimes is a nice guy don't get him man he's not out the steam up the two of you shake hands and forget it okay by me Sergeant this is just between Grimes and me no one has any right to destroy a pain we're not gonna have any fights in this outfit fighting two men have a right to put on the gloves and spar a little bit don't they if you put it that way I guess they do but I don't mind telling you you're crazy I'm ready anytime you are grinds you have to understand Grimes was a kind of boxer who looked good in any professional ring he knew his business but this tall lanky redheaded kid Van Sultan knew what to do with his hands and feet he kept moving in and out just jabbing and he had Grimes way off balance the fellas who were watching could hardly believe their eyes Van Sultan kept moving in and scoring with quick combinations Grimes kept missing suddenly Van Sultan landed with a quick right and Grimes dropped to the floor he got up very slowly very cautiously and started landing a few hard jabs to Van Sultan's jaw then there was a quick right hook and Van Sultan was down he jumped up very quickly but Grimes pushed him away with both hands all right back up kid back up I don't want to hurt you you're good but you can't hit hard enough to keep away anyhow I gotta ask you something yeah what where that right hand come from I never did see it you know if you could hit harder I'd have been down with a count how'd you do it I don't know just mixing up the punches giving you what you weren't looking for that's how I paint pictures too well I'm sorry about the picture kid maybe I should have looked at it a little bit harder here isn't torn so bad maybe we paste it up well they picked up the torn pieces of canvas and they started talking and I know how guys become buddies in the army I could tell these two were going to be good friends how do you like that Van Sultan who could imagine a guy who paints pictures being so good with the gloves that was the start of it everybody in the outfit wanted Van Sultan to do his picture and the kid was kept plenty busy even painted my picture anyway things were quiet with us we were just pulling drill and training and guard duty and then it happened Van Sultan Grimes and myself walking down the street in Western Berlin one Sunday afternoon hey what are all them people doing along the sidewalk yeah there must be hundreds of hey you know what it looks like it's some kind of outdoor exhibition listen you know maybe there's some good paintings let's take a look I bet none of them guys can draw like you know some of this looks like first-rate stuff look at us grimes me and you six weeks ago if anyone would have told us we'd be going around art exhibition hey Robbie look at this guy's picture guys got no idea of perspective listen to him well he handles colors nice though hey wait a minute I think I know that man which man man with a black Humber talking that young guy yeah come on excuse me sir could you tell me the name of that man you were talking with just now him oh that's Anders Anders no that name isn't familiar well tell me you know Mr. Anders oh yes yes he comes to the exhibition each year he always buys a painting and there's no I don't think I know only comes your boy back again Robbie take a good look at him I think I would like to take the landscape home I would like to look at it a bit more closely of course I under it can't be Professor Morrell Professor Morrell you are dressing me young social professor Morrell I'm afraid you are mistaken young man oh no no you're Professor Morrell you wouldn't recognize me I was only a little kid but you spent a whole summer at our house in Wisconsin you were lecturing at the University you must remember my father Professor Edward Van Selton I'm sorry but I am not your professor Morrell my father teaches art at the University remember and please tell these soldiers who I am well you are here under how do you know his name is Anders how because he told me now if you really excuse me Hans I shall return your landscape tomorrow what's the matter Bobby look like you seen a ghost I did this guy is supposed to be dead which way to go I don't know it's so crowded around here I lost there he is I see him I'll be right back hey Robbie Robbie wait a minute now where did he go into this apartment house see where are the names okay Mr. if you want to insist your name is Anders we'll let it go for now Anders here it is first floor I guess this must be the door okay right here I expected you might come after me be good enough to raise your hands I you are listening to the proudly we hail production the art of propaganda we'll return in just a moment for the second act I suppose all of us at one time or another have seen the principle of strength through unity demonstrated by a handful of sticks singly they can be broken very easily but when bound together why it's practically impossible to break them and so it is with our America working together as a team we can be certain that our freedoms and our democratic way of life will never be broken and one of the most important members of freedom's team is your United States Army a high-spirited well-equipped organization that offers unequaled opportunities to modern young men and women who want to get ahead in good-paying interesting careers today the Army has a new career program in operation that permits you to choose your own course of training in the skill that best suits your aptitudes and interests so I suggest you find out about it visit your nearest Army recruiting station you'll be amazed at just how much the Army can offer you you are listening to proudly we hail and now we present the second act of the art of propaganda I knew you would follow me the moment you recognized me the moment you called me morale I knew you would follow me as a morale what's come over you you are my father's best friend and you're you're pointing a gun at me that's true your father I knew him well what am I to do with you what's the matter why do you call yourself Anders are you doing here in Germany in Berlin I am here because because no one knows me no one recognized me until you did this afternoon and now you will write your father you will tell him about me and then everyone will know where I am they will come after me no I will not let it happen I will let you do what kind of friends are you okay Mac up off the floor what should we do take him back to the company tell the old man historian see if this is for the army of the civilian cops he tried to kill me professor morel why my name is not morel it is Anders you you broke in here I thought perhaps you were a robber who admitted to me that your name was morel morel or Anders let's let the cops puzzle without you fellas get here Robby if you use your head nothing's difficult all we did was ask the guy who's selling the paintings where this bird lived he told us and we strolled over I wish you hadn't come when you did listen to him the guy had a little good point of the jail Grimes he wouldn't have shocked me he was already to tell me something and now now what why do you deny that your name is morel my name is Anders I have papers to prove it papers papers at the end of the war anybody could have gotten papers all right so your name is Anders and you're a German citizen what do you come from I am a native of the Weimar that's great by Mars in the other zone we could never check on it okay we don't have to after all this man hasn't done anything wrong what do you mean he had a gun on you he shot it all right but I entered his house didn't I look maybe I made a mistake he looks like a guy my father knew but I could be wrong I'm sorry sir I I apologize come on fellas but Robbie come on let's go okay Robbie this has been your party if you say it's over I'm sorry here Anders I I thought you were someone else good day sir hey what's the idea not here Grimes around the back way quick see if there's a back entrance stick around if he moves out following yeah but I look do it please I'll explain later Sergeant let's duck into that cafe across the street where we can watch the front door hey Robbie I don't go around pulling rank but it seems to me you're making a lot of command decisions for just a PFC let's get into this place maybe I can explain it you see the door from here yeah all right now tell me did you ever hear a veranasi a van dyke veranasi doesn't register I think a van dyke is a kind of beard well both of them were great painters old masters I can't tell you how much their paintings are worth today because well money doesn't begin to to express their value Sergeant if you have one of their paintings you can name your price fifty sixty a hundred thousand dollars money is no object now this guy is professor morel there's no doubt about it so what are you getting at Robbie during the last war when France was overrun morel was one of a lot of trusted guys who were assigned artworks to conceal so when the war was over all the guys who had this detail brought the stuff out of hiding all but one that was morel he disappeared so this guy has got himself these old paintings huh yeah my father knew all about it because he has friends who were in the French underground that's how I know I recognize morel right off the real but what could I do could I go up to him and say morel where are those paintings you could have called a cop you could have done what I wanted to do take him in I had to make sure he was morel first so I played it innocent and dumb all right now he knows I know that he's morel but he has no reason to believe that I know why he's hiding in Germany he figures I'll write to my father and tell him I ran into morel my father will get all excited and start burning up the wires to the French authorities the German police the US Army sure but that has to take a little time you know Robbie in baseball they say every good first baseman wants to pitch and every good infantryman wants to be a guy from G2 okay you got reason to believe this guy is named Morel you think he's got a couple of million bucks worth of stolen pictures all we have to do is bring him in they'll bring in some French art people who would have known this guy or send him back to France and that's the ball game what are we slinking around this joint like a bunch of private eyes for well the gentleman a couple of beers a sergeant you miss the point okay arrest the guy have him positively identified as Morel then what how does that get the paintings back so they'll send him to jail all right but if he keeps his mouth shut those paintings will still be a wall so what are we supposed to do wait for him to make a move he's sweating and guessing if he thinks I've gone to the cops he'll just stay in his room and wait to be arrested but if he thinks that I don't know anything and if he thinks he's still got time before my letter can get back to my old man in the States he's got to do something yeah what I don't know start running get the paintings go somewhere else hide somewhere yeah but suppose he sold the paintings already no he couldn't have sold the paintings why not because no one would be stupid enough to buy him well so if he knew he couldn't sell him why did he steal him I wish I knew all you artists you got to be crazy your peers gentlemen there you go sergeant come on up here you are keep the change but what you do not drink is something wrong with your service Robbie this is no good what do you mean whoever this guy is he's no fool he sure to spot us let's keep close to the buildings the streets aren't too crowded and besides we're in uniform unless but that'd be crazy listen stay here I'm gonna duck around the corner and get grimes but morel get away no he won't believe me he won't but Sergeant Bobby stand here and wait and that's an order I sent Grimes back to the company he's been standing in front of that store looking at the window there he's walking away he came back just in time I'll bet what are you smiling at sergeant nothing don't lose sight of your man I wonder where he's going or Anders or whatever his name was walk slowly along the street we followed him as he walked for almost a mile across town finally he stopped in front of a large apartment building paused a minute or so at the entrance and then disappeared inside how we know which apartment he went into I think we'll know look who do you think we are Indian scouts from the old Wild West this guy knows we've been telling him I think he wouldn't have lost us if he really wanted to he wants us to follow him I don't understand you're an expert on painting and art and you've got a fantastic memory for faces that's about as far as your talents go in this case now you follow me how we know which apartment has at least 50 names over these bells let me look why sure enough fella here see this name Ritter yeah what about it papers torn I'll bet your boy did that to leave a signal Ritter first floor front should we ring the bell how much do you want to bet he left the inside door open for us try it so yeah I told her but that should be it be quiet hey I hear voices even left that door open to sergeant that's the gun you took from a rail what are you thinking of what does anyone think of when he has a gun he's thinking he might have to use it but such a quiet let's sneak up slowly you are ready to find the paintings if they are genuine I see I have invited Mr. Rulenko here to inspect them we have been waiting for they are here I have kept them in this closet three by Veronese three by Van Dyke Mr. Rulenko these guys crazy no legitimate art dealer would buy those paintings my boy the longer you live the more you find out there are lots of people in the world who aren't on the level now shut up well Mr. Rulenko and I need more time but at the first impression I would say these are genuine shall we pay him the money no definitely propaganda value of these is inestimable provided of course that provided what provided my dear professor that you come along with but I have no desire to go to your country these paintings were entrusted to you you have seen head to deliver them to us for safekeeping because you do not trust your own government any other way would be stealing the fine very fine legal distinction but it will serve only the people's democracy appreciates and can care for great art I have changed my mind I do not wish to sell them I'm afraid it's a bit too late watch and run off come on Robbie Tommy broke up the party drop it buddy good punch Robbie friend Cronoff will be out of action for a while where are you going pal Professor Morrell Robert I'm afraid I saw what you did you jumped in front of him you saved one of us Robert this is the best way for me I was crazy I thought I could keep the paintings I don't know what came over me I wanted them for my own to enjoy them but I needed money and last week I arranged with the only people who'd be able to take some off my hands oh hello Captain Graham's told us you need some help what are these people I'm sure there must be something on them in intelligence sir the one on the floor looks like Cronoff he's a suspected red agent Robert I wanted you to follow me Robert to stop me if you could take the whole matter out of my hands and you did we better get this fella to a hospital Robert I would not have gone through with it you you know that for years I have been a fool Robert but do not tell your father then what are all these pictures they they're masterpieces they've been stolen from the French government that's right sir and private Van Sultan here discovered the whole plot yeah well Van Seventon you're about to become a celebrity who's this fellow who got killed his name is his Anders just as it says in his papers well that's about it the paintings were returned to France Robbie got decorated by just about everybody and there's no question that he deserved it what everybody believed was that Morrell was killed during the war and paintings fell into the hands of a man named Anders and of course Robbie was proud of his part in the deal but I think what made him feel even prouder was the fact that he got the next open rating in the outfit the very next job of painting he did was to neatly paint two black stripes on his fatigue shirt so far he said that painting is his masterpiece young man here's news about an important opportunity for you right now the United States Army the senior service of our armed forces has an urgent need for qualified technicians to operate and service the complex equipment that science has brought into being the need is vital and you can be trained in such interesting career fields as radio electronics radar photography meteorology mechanics and many many others yes indeed here's your chance to acquire a skill that will be of value to your country and help you later in civilian life too for full details visit the recruiting sergeant at your nearest recruiting station today this has been another program on proudly we hail presented transcribed in cooperation with this station proudly we hail is produced by the recruiting publicity center for the United States Army and United States Air Force recruiting service this is Mark Hamilton speaking inviting you to tune in this same station next week for another interesting story on proudly we hail


What's going on everybody got Kyle and Shawn here relating sports cards and we are ripping one box of 2023 leaf exotic football and this one is for mr Philip G Good luck Philip. Let's see what we got here. It's exotic First up is rookie for the birds the three of nine is clay Ringo out of Georgia Clay Ringo Thank you drew taking five. Thank you drew two to go Two to go on prism sold out sold out Thank You Louise taken to we are sold out guys. We'll get prism going next. There was no more personal So that works perfect three and nine is clay Ringo Got a Luke schoonmaker that one is six of six rookie QB or rookie tight end for the Cowboys schoonmaker six of six and Nice one here. We got the kid still in college. It's gonna be rookie of Drake may Good-looking rookie QB one of ten for the tar heels Nice Drake may should be a should be a nice draft pick this year coming up Nice one there Drake made it ten. Oh Righty there mr. Philip that'll do it for your one box of leaf exotic. Thank you sir. We'll get it right out to you


Neil Young and Crazy Horse have announced a tour. Now, if you guys remember, I saw Neil Young a couple of months ago at the Roxy. For the 50 year anniversary of the Roxy, Neil Young had played the Roxy the opening night. He played it a few nights in a row. And for the 50 year anniversary, he went back and played it with Crazy Horse. He had not played with Crazy Horse in years and it was wild to see. So the tour is called Love Earth Tour. It starts April 24th in San Diego two nights. And it seems to be like it's going to be outdoor, amphitheater type of sheds, like the shoreline type of places.


Hi, my name is Natasha and I was a Jenkins Google Summer of Code student in 2019. Before I did Google Summer of Code, I had never really contributed to an open source project before and it's just an incredible experience. So the Jenkins community is super open and supportive for newbies and you'll also work on projects that can have real impact. So my project was working on a tool to help with plugin management that's since been downloaded over 100,000 times. So I would really encourage everyone to apply and to try to get started doing open source with Jenkins because it's a really amazing experience.


From around the globe, it's theCUBE with digital coverage of IBM Think 2021, brought to you by IBM. Welcome back everyone to theCUBE coverage of IBM Think 2021 virtual. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE. Our next guest, Taylor Holloway, Chief Technology Officer at Advent One. Taylor, welcome to theCUBE from down under in Australia and we're in Palo Alto, California. How are you? Well, thanks, John. Thanks very much, glad to be on here. Love the virtual theCUBE, love the virtual events. We can get to talk to people really quickly with click. Great conversation here around hybrid cloud, multi-cloud and all things software enterprise. Before we get started, I want to take a minute to explain what you guys do at Advent One. What's the main focus? Yeah, so we have a lot of customers in different verticals. So generally what we provide depends on the particular industry the customer is in. But generally speaking, we see a lot of demand for operational efficiency, helping our clients tackle cyber security risks, adopt type of cloud and set them up to modernize the applications. And this has been a big wave coming in for sure with cloud and scale. So I got to ask you, what are the main challenges that you guys are solving for your customers and how are you helping them overcome, come that way and transform it in an innovative way? Yeah, look, I think helping our clients improve their security posture is a big one. We're finding as well that our customers are gaining a lot of operational efficiency by adopting sort of open source technology, Red Hat's an important partner of ours as his IBM. And we're seeing them sort of move away from some more proprietary solutions. And automation is a big focus for us as well. We've had some great outcomes with our clients around helping them automate and deliver the stand up and day two operations environment so a lot quickly, a lot more easily. And to be able to sort of apply some standards across multiple sort of areas of their IT estate. What are some of the solutions that you guys are doing with IBM's portfolio and the IT infrastructure side? You got Red Hat, you got a lot of open source stuff to meet the needs of clients. What do you mean, what's the main product? Yeah, look, I think on the storage side, we probably help our clients sort of tackle the expanding data in structured and particularly unstructured data that they're trying to take control of. So looking at spectrum scale and those types of products from an IBM perspective for unstructured data is a good example and sort of their flash systems for sort of more block storage and sort of more run in the mill sort of environments. We have helped our clients consolidate and modernize on IBM power systems. Having Red Hat as both a Linux operating system and having OpenShift as a container platform really helps there and Red Hat also provides sort of a management overlay which has been great on what we do with IBM power systems. We've been working on a few different sort of use cases on power in particular sort of more recently. SAP HANA is a big one where we've had some success with our clients migrating Mahana onto IBM power systems and we've also helped our customers improve some environments on the other end of the side such as the IBMI and we still have a large number of customers with IBMI and how do we help them? Some of them are moving to cloud in one way or another. Others are consuming some kind of IS and we can sort of wrap around a managed service to help them through. So I got to ask you the question, you know, you CTO you play with a lot of technologies obviously Kubernetes has become this lingua franca for this kind of like I would call a middleware kind of orchestration layer. Containers obviously are awesome but I got to ask you when you walk into a client's environment you don't have to name names but you know usually you see kind of two pictures man they need some serious help or they got their act together. So either way they're both opportunities for hybrid cloud how do you evaluate the environments when you go in when you walk into those two scenarios what goes through your mind what's some of the conversations that you guys have with those clients? Can you take me through a kind of day in the life of both scenarios the ones that are like I can't get the job done I'm so close and I'm the right team and the other ones like we're grooving we're kicking butt. Yeah so let's start well I suppose to start off with you try and take somewhat of a technology agnostic view and just sort of sit down and listen to what they're trying to achieve how they're going for customers who have got it as you say all nailed down things are going really well. It's just really understanding well what can we do to help there is there an opportunity for us to help at all. Like generally speaking there's always going to be something and it may be we don't try and if someone's going really well they might just want someone to help with a bespoke use case or something very specific where they need help. On the other end of the scale where a customer is sort of pretty early on and starting to struggle we generally try and help them not boil the ocean at once just try and get some wins pick some key use cases deliver some value back and then sort of grow it from there rather than trying to go into a customer and trying to do everything at once tends to be a challenge just understand what the priorities are and help them get going. What's the impact been for Red Hat in your customer base? A lot of overlap some overlap no overlap coming together what's the general trend that you're seeing what's the reaction been? Yeah I think it's been really good obviously IBM have a lot of focus on cloud packs where they're bringing their software on Red Hat OpenShift that will run on multiple clouds so I think that's one that we'll see a lot more of over time. Also helping customers automate their IT operations with Ansible is one we do quite a lot of and there's some really bespoke use cases we've done with that as well as some standardized ones so helping with day two operations and all that sort of thing but there's also some really sort of out there things customers have needed to automate it's been a challenge for them and being able to use open source tools to do it has worked really well and we've had some good wins there. You know I want to ask you about the architecture and then just some simplify it real just for the sake of DevOps and segmentation you got hybrid cloud, say K, programmable infrastructure and then you got modern applications that need to have AI some have said I've even said on theCUBE and other broadcasts that if you don't have AI you're going to be at a handicap some machine learning, some data has to be in there. You're going to probably see AI and mostly everything as you go in and try to architect that out for customers and help them get to a hybrid cloud infrastructure with real modern application front end with using data. What's the playbook? Do you have any best practices or examples you can share or scenarios or visions that you see playing out? I think the first one is obviously making sure customers data is in the right place. So if they might be wanting to use some machine learning in one particular cloud provider and they've got a lot of their applications and data in another how do we help them make it mobile and be able to move data from one cloud to another or back into a core data center? So there's a lot of that I think that we spend a lot of time with customers to try and get a right architecture and also how do we make sure it's secure from end to end? So if they're moving things from into multiple one or more public clouds as well as maybe in their own data center making sure connectivity is all set up properly all the security requirements are met. So I think we sort of look at it from a from a high level design point of view we look at it obviously what the target state is going to be versus the current state that really take into account security performance connectivity and all those sort of things to make sure that they're going to have a good result. You know, one of the things you mentioned and this comes up a lot of my interviews with partners of IBM is they always comment about their credibility and all the normal stuff but one of the things that comes out a lot pretty much consistently is their experience in verticals they just have such a track record in verticals and this is where AI and machine learning data has to be very much scoped in on the vertical you can't generalize and have a general purpose data plane inside of vertically specialized kind of focus. How do you see that evolving? How does IBM play there with this kind of the horizontally scalable mindset of a hybrid model both on-premise and in the cloud but at that still same provide that intimacy with the data to fuel the machine learning or NLP or power that AI which seems to be critical. Yeah. Yeah, I think there's a lot of services where you know, public cloud providers are bringing out new services all the time and some of it is pre-canned and easy to consume. I think what IBM from what I've observed has been really good at is handling some of those really bespoke use cases. So if you have a particular vertical with a challenge you know, there's going to be sort of things that are pre-canned that you can go and consume but if you need to do something custom that could be quite challenging how do they sort of build something that could be quite specific for a particular industry and then obviously being able to repeat that afterwards. So for us that's obviously something we're very interested in. Yeah, I love chatting with you love getting the low down also people might not know you're a co-author of a book performance guy with IBM power systems. So I got to ask you since I got you here and this, I don't mean to put you on the spot but if you can just share your vision or any kind of anecdotal observation as people start to put together their architecture and again, you know beauties in the eye the beholder every environment is different but still hybrid distributed concept is distributed computing. Is there a KPI? Is there a best practice on as a manager or a systems architect to kind of keep an eye on what good is and how good becomes better because of day two operations becomes a super important concept we're seeing some call AI ops where okay I'm provisioning stuff out on a hybrid cloud operational environment but now day two hits or things happen as more stuffs entered into the equation. What's your vision on KPIs and management? What to keep track of? I think obviously attention to detail is really important to be able to build things properly. A good KPI particularly in our managed service area that I'm curious at understanding is how often do you actually have to log into the systems that you're managing? So if you're logging in and SSHing into servers and all this sort of stuff all the time all of your automation and configuration management is not set up properly. So really a good KPI an interesting one is how often do you log into things all the time? If something went wrong would you sooner go and build another one and shoot the one that failed or go and restore them back up? So thinking about how well things are automated if things are immutable using infrastructure as code those are things that I think are really important when you look at how is something gonna be scalable and easy to manage going forward? What I'd hate to see is where someone builds something and automates it all in the first place and they're too scared to run it again afterwards in case it breaks something. It's funny that the next generation of leaders probably won't even know like, hey, Taylor and John they had to log into systems back in the day. I could be like a story they tell their kids but no, that's a good metric. This is automation. So it's on the next level let's go to the next level automation. What's the low hanging fruit for automation because you're getting at really kind of the killer app there which is self-healing systems good networks that are programmable but automation will define more value. What's your take? I think the main thing is where you start to move from a model of being able to start small and automate individual things which could be patching or system provisioning or anything like that. But what you really wanna get to is to be able to drive everything through Git. So instead of having a written up paper change request I'm gonna change your system and all the rest of it it really should be driven through a pull request and have things through Git and build pipelines to go and make a change run it in development and make sure it's successful and then it goes and gets pushed into production. That's really where I think you wanna get to and you can start to have a lot of people collaborating really well on a particular project or customer that also have some sort of guard rails around what happens in some level of governance rather than being a bit of a free for all. Okay, final question. Where do you see Advent One headed? What's their future plans to continue to be a leader? IT service part leader for these IBM's infrastructure portfolio. I think it comes down to people in the end so really making sure that we partner with our clients and to be well positioned to understand what they wanna achieve and have the expertise in our team to bring to the table to help them do it. I think Open Source is a key enabler to help our clients adopt a hybrid cloud model which we sort of touched on earlier as well as be able to make use of multiple clouds where it makes sense. From a managed service perspective I think everyone is really considering themselves a next-gen managed service provider but what that means for us is to provide a differentiated managed service and also have the strong technical expertise to back it up. Taylor Holloway, Chief Technology Officer, Advent One remote videoing in from down under in Australia. I'm John Furrier in Pella Welta with CUBE Coverage, a IBM thing. Taylor, thanks for joining me today from theCUBE. Thank you very much. Okay, CUBE Coverage, thanks for watching.


This is Hell's Half Acre, the most intriguing landform between Casper and Shoshone Wyoming. Hell's Half Acre is actually about 320 acres of colorful sedimentary formations eroded by water and wind and the towers, spires, and an impressive variety of other unlikely shapes. It's a geological mishmash, partly because it's on a boundary where, longer ago, the earth fractured in a so-called Thrust Vault. In the process, rock layers got crumpled and mixed. Hell's Half Acre is also a sag or low spot in what would otherwise join the bighorn and Laramie Mountains into one continuous north-south range. You can see at least four different geological formations, burying in texture from shale to sandstone, and burying in color from gray or green to red, pink and yellow. Fossils, coal, buffalo bones, and Indian artifacts have been recovered here. It's also been the location of a science fiction movie, Starship Troopers. Whether you find Hell's Half Acre eerie or alien, I personally find it beautiful. This has been Tom Heald for the Cooperative Extension Service of the University of Wyoming, exploring the nature of Wyoming.


Yeah, I learned it. Pretty good. Swap? Swap. Leg up. With some... I want you to make two more. Yeah, a little one. Yeah. Well, yeah. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Oh, yeah. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. A key reason for me to do this is... Oh, well, I can take a lot of them. What is it, T11 the one you've got? If you don't do anything, you will fall. Yeah, but that's good. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so... Are we ready to get up right now? That's right, that's right.


This motel should have been knocked down when I was a kid. I look down slowly at the phone beside me. A small smile starts to creep out of the corner of my mouth. This is what I've been waiting for. Your room looks nice, man, but I can't see anything with those blinds in the way. Move them apart a little. What do you say? I shake my head comically and start texting back immediately. Nice try, dickhead. The place I'm at doesn't have blinds. Yeah, didn't have a quick response for that, did ya, tough guy? As soon as I finished that thought, the familiar ding once again emanated from my cellular device. I'm just messing with you. I know where you are. Figured maybe you'd like a little more fun before this happens. This text was followed by another. Are you drunk already again? Or should I give you some time to get started? I again start pecking away. You already know the answer to that. I'm sure your employer briefed you all about my traits and my faults. Radio silence. Just enough time to finish up the last bit of whiskey. Man, that's awful. For those that are addicted to something, I mean truly addicted. You can't explain to anyone how much you want to quit.  I found that the worst part of addiction is that I don't enjoy the feeling anymore. I don't like being drunk. I have to be drunk. To exist. I never smoked, but the people that do have conveyed that same thought to me. I used to be an operator. It's a long complicated story, but I can sum it up easily. I am called when a high value target needs to go quiet. Sure, you're probably thinking of the word hip man right now. I can't say you're wrong. I started legitimate though. I served my country. And then as a public servant, I have seen more insanity than most. That's the only history lesson you'll get on me. My phone vibrated again. Sorry, had to make sure a few other contracts were going as planned. You understand. I sure do. And with that, I understand that you and I are in the same line of work. I am semi retired, but technically still in, I suppose. In this line of work, you're not done until you're done. The only upside of being a contract killer beside the money is that you get to network with some of the most dangerous people in the world. They will come in handy in your lifetime. Believe me, I picked up my phone. Sure, bud. So don't mean to be rude, but uh, when is this happening? You uh, you don't know where I am, do you? Please. I already told you, I'm just playing with my food for a bit. Okay, sure. Keep stalling. Are you a professional or not? I am. I'm doing this for fun though. It's more of a hobby.  Just come get me. I'm ready. I didn't want to let on that I really was enjoying myself, but I'm ready to go. I've seen and done everything I could imagine. I've loved and lost. I've created a couple little people that grew up into big people. And thank God they don't share my skillset. They both got their respective mother's intelligence. I can't keep going though.   Not a completely original idea, as I've been on the other end more times than I can count, but I think the end of my life will be complete when I finally, finally see what it's like being on that side of the gun knife or whatever this guy decides to use. My ad didn't state that the murder weapon had to be anything specific. So this, this is my suicide note. Some poor housekeeper will find my body. Hopefully it won't be too disgusting. Guess it depends on what they choose. Honestly, not ideal. But I would of course rather have a stranger find me than anyone I know. And I'm in a dingy motel on the bad side of town. They deal with this all the time. I've contributed myself. I have to say earlier that I was bluffing, and I'm not entirely sure if my hitman was bluffing too. I said he didn't even know where I was, but truthfully I'm not sure. He could have been right outside for all I know. I did tell the truth about having no blinds in my room. It has curtains. I wasn't the type to play around when I was on the job. I know some guys are, so I guess I'm dealing with one of them. Well, as long as the end result is me dying, I'm gonna fight a little. It wouldn't be fun otherwise. But otherwise though, I'm completely ready to go. My phone buzzed again. Ah, the Mona Lisa Hotel. Skid Row, huh? Hey, congrats, junior detective. You finally found me. Now, out of a hundred rooms, you have to see what hole this mouse is in. Ha, appropriate. Cause I'm the big cat, bro. I pinched the bridge of my nose with my left thumb and forefinger.  Just do it already. I wasn't inviting him to join my analogy of being a mouse for him to say he was a cat. It's just, I'm sorry, I'm getting a little carried away. Wow, maybe I'm starting to get nervous. I've never had this feeling before.   This is kind of unreal, to be honest. But I'm not upset. This is what I chose. And this is what I'm gonna follow through with. Yeah, you know I'm close now. You know, that cat line was kind of cringy. Sorry. Ah, a self aware hitman. You know, it won't take me long to find out what room you're at. Do you want to just make it easier for me? All right. Tell you what, I'll play a game with you. I see that's your kind of thing. The room number I'm in is my favorite baseball player of all time. I don't know if you'll get this, but I did drop a few hints when I was making the arrangement with his employer, a well known hip man that is very precise, a hit man that I trust and should choose the best man for the job. I couldn't ask him to do it, because he's too old and too well known to me. I need the killer to be a stranger. I made reference to not only my favorite player, but actually dropped the number in the email at least twice, if I remember right. As it's established, I drink a lot. So my memory is about as good as a chimp. Hey, fantastic. Give me a second. I'm gonna consult my sources. I assume that means he has to go back and read the contract from his boss. I don't blame him better than blindly guessing and bursting into every room here until he finds me. Ken Griffey Jr. Damn, that was fast. I'll be there soon. Clever. I'd be lying if I said I was disappointed he knew the answers so quickly. I wanted him to know. But I actually spent a lot of time on that little Easter egg.  And since baseball isn't popular, well, you get it. And Ken Griffey Jr., the man with the sweetest left-handed swing I've ever seen, hasn't played ball for about 11 years. I guess I'm glad he figured it out, though. Time for another drink may be my last.  I won't play around any longer. No more puzzles or banter. Yes, I'm in room 24. It's unlocked. I sat there just staring in my phone. I eventually turned it over on its face just to relieve me of the pain. I won't be here much longer. I pulled out my last meal from the Rite Aid bag on the biohazard known as the bed, a Reese's Pieces Cup package. That's all I want. And it's perfect for this occasion. It's simple, clean, and of course delicious. My phone buzzes again. A thumbs up emoji. I stared into the wall for a moment, probably longer than I remember. Slowly getting out of the chair, feeling like my spine and knees will completely give out. I made my way to the shower. No point in worrying about how disgusting the room is now.  I don't have any olive oil to rub all over me. I try to think of everything, but in my current state of mind, I think you can forgive me. After a long shower, the bathroom is foggy with steam.  The eyes that have killed, destroyed, hurt. But alas, the eyes that have helped, loved, and hurt. No time to get regretful or sentimental. I'm dressed. I'm ready. I go back to my chair. I'm in the furthest corner from the door. I want to watch all this go down. My phone buzzes, but I don't look at it. I keep my eyes focused on the entrance. I need to see the person responsible for taking my life. After all, I've paid a huge fee and they better be worth it. Alright, fine. If you won't answer your phone, I'll just talk to you like cave people used to communicate. I hear coming from outside the room. Yeah, yeah, we can do that. We can talk like civilized people before we find our conclusion. I half yell. But there was no more talking. The door seems to disintegrate as some type of explosive charge rocks my room, and probably most of the building, the window next to it even shatters. I temporarily shield my eyes from the debris. When I lower my guard, open my eyes.  Well, that's not how it exactly happened.  I died right after the first text came in. As I was replying to the question about the blinds, the guy came in and almost choked my head off. Not that exciting. I hired him. I was the employer. I know that. What I don't know is where I am right now. I can't tell if I'm in heaven, hell or purgatory. I relive this day every day. I think this is my punishment. The worst part is believing that my son would be happy to kill me. Maybe he would. I thought I had questions in life. I didn't know how many questions you could have. After death.