This is probably the most professional podcast that's ever existed Well only in my subjectively objective opinion I was gonna say lucky for me. It's all subjective so I can't be wrong and what noise was that I Responding to extra credit to be reposit just to rate with Theo who was on e-fab That's my one flame to that And top memory I mean in terms of like memes and the balcony and be list as fuck. So maybe it does need a reiterating Bliss Like bliss So Wolf do you drink your winners warm? What that was a question from previous e-fab. I remember I asked it in front of rags And I was like what the fuck's winners and I think you said it was there a carbonated drink of some kind. I Don't drink burners. So oh Wrong.  So they must have really wanted to know Well, yeah, burners is like a it's not horrible But I would never go out of my way to drink it and if someone offered it to me I'd probably just ask for water instead You're telling me that they they got the wrong information and have thus wasted their time indeed Okay, he said forgive me if this is an important law tidbit that's been answered before Also, apparently you should read so laurus by Isaac Asimov Man, I have like 400 books I have yet to read Go on the list of all the shit I have to do and Aramal if you do you have to do over eat pizza. Yeah read right Do you to do my full-time job is eat pizza all day? All night you don't have blood you have marinara That's pretty cool.  They're gonna be like wow.  Oh, it's a lot of pizza Do you think they would like war? Or do you think they would just fly of course it does garlic on it?  I don't think so I mean, I'm not a chef. How would I know there are like there's garlic on pizza depending on where you're getting it from But you know You eat so much pizza that you will absorb the garlic I'll have you know, I've been eating healthy things all week. Yeah vegan pizza Yeah, I've been putting good stuff on my pizza.  How do you feel down the pizza?  I don't think it counts Admit it that he's still eating his pizza. We have like a grain of rice doesn't really count.    Well, you know, we made it 12 seconds. Thanks for the bad dude.  I was supposed to say that's such an easy segue into into what we're covering But I was like this one more thing I wanted to talk about so I Have read plenty of comments from the last e-fap of people being like there was this one that was like Sure, they can counter criticisms of homecoming. They never really talk about why homecoming is any good though Like they don't ever talk about they don't ever raise a point for why homecoming is good. We've heard The the the Angot isms. We know everyone No, that's the point I was gonna say like we Arbitrarily like it was brought up casually because it's just a point of contention.  It'll be like the the arrival one But you know, we'll see how it goes and who knows who will guest and it'll be Fantabilistic, but yeah, we haven't actually had Time with homecoming really so like the people who are like why haven't you explained why you think spider-man homecoming is any good? It's like we're not really That's never been a focus of the conversation. Oh, I think all that happened in the previous episodes I was like, oh Shad triggered a critical drinker. What are the biggest problems with it? Just tell me I think Shad said that it was MJ was his biggest issue and that's the only thing I remember not liking about the movie But he was not in it much. So I Think what's interesting is that when we rewatched it I had said that the PE teacher has more lines in that movie than MJ does Right MJ is extremely limited in my lines and I actually find a lot of the jokes that she's Entwined with quite funny Yeah, so I find it to be completely, you know non non frustrating and not to say that anyone else Shouldn't or anything. I'm just it's very curious that she would be like such a major issue Unless the argument comes down to an adaptation thing in which case we're just like we always have to qualify We mean Shad adversity not Shad man We had our cities are No Shad man. No, no, don't equate the two rags.  It's gonna be funny. I hope you'll be away I'm going in with like no expectations. I'm just gonna be like, okay, Spider-Man. It's gonna be great Also, yeah, welcome guest Theo Hi there. Hey, why'd you speak over me God? You're welcome It's been a while you came on episode whatever when we covered wonderful Joseph Wright just just Anderson He was he was talking about good old Subjective fit tisms and how it's all implied After the horror game shit. That was the one you commented on right the subjectivity one. Yeah, yeah Because he was He made like an arbitrary comment on the lines of like Historians don't have to be objective I don't want to paraphrase He equated historians providing citations for their evidence with people giving like in my opinion declarations and such like And apparently they're the same thing I would love that if your history teacher was like and they lost the battle in my opinion It was because they lacked abode. It's like, oh, what's that based on? I don't know. I just Think that I think that they did My opinions It's just how I feel you know Oh, yeah, and obviously so some people be like, why aren't you talking about far from home spider-man is out We're not gonna do that until rags and wolf seen it and hopefully The ideas they would have seen it by the next e-fap maybe wolf certainly will have rags is a maybe tisms So yeah, you won't be spoiled of it if you haven't seen it yet But we're also not gonna cover it because we got so much other tisms to do like yeah My goodness, but why are we e-fapping when spider-man is out? It's gonna be out. It's spider-man's gonna be out. Yeah, spider-man 3 will be out eventually No, I don't want homecoming to or spider-man far from home to who knows what they'll call it But I think my special spider-man 4 or maybe just a remake of spider-man 3 So we don't have to think about what actually happened in spider-man 3 Retried spider-man 3 revengeance So I have bad news There's a video that got released that you guys may have heard of called stop normalizing Nazis Jack Sparrow featuring Michael Bolton That is the subtitle of the video. Yeah So the idea is that there's a channel called extra credits and they did an oopsie But the thing is unfortunately for me or fortunately, I've never cared about this channel Has anyone on this panel cared about your extra credits before I'd never heard of them until this video And now I never want to watch anything from them. I I've seen couple other stuff through the years Just on and off. I mean Three videos maybe because they did the they did the whole video not too long ago where oh, you should be paying more than $60 for games and that was a oh, yeah We might check that out, too. So that was fun. Yeah, they did some other stuff every once in a while they'll have sort of a tizmy take but Generally as far as I know they they try to stay pretty They kind of try to stay in the straight and narrow, but whenever they try to get political in any way It goes And this is the worst I've ever seen it though. I've never seen it this bad. This is This is a Unifyingly. Yeah, the next level bad It has like one of the worst ratios ever like I'm not even kidding It's down to is it 9% now or is it 10% it is that is it 10% currently 10% positive It's hard to get that ratio. It's very hard one in ten people fan. I think this is a good idea So yeah, there's a lot of people in chat who've watched extra credits for a long time I know a lot of people really like them I've never watched them I've only ever been linked them every once in a while and I remember a lot of controversy going around on the The pay for more from games one like I said, we might check that one out as well But this is the one we got to get through first the I've seen Just over a half of this video and I've seen someone else responding to it because literally like Fucking a huge portion of the people I follow on YouTube responded to this Because it annoyed everybody. It's one of those everyone disliked that moments You guys are seen chatter like stop normalizing the toxic brood stop normalizing Longman I went to normalize Longman What are the response videos I think was called like stop normalizing idiocy like or something like that We can keep this going Yeah, so they've done this something I should mention and I don't know enough about this So I'm just saying it's the people who are curious would know they Have a relatively different team now from what they had even a year ago I think there's a lot of controversy behind the scenes of who makes extra credits exactly so Look into it if you want to find out. I don't know enough about it. It's very it seems very making complicated. There's a couple of like controversies that go further than just Weirdisms and so like a lot of people are pointing out their stances from before compared to now a different than some people I will different people wrote it and it's like they have different values now It's still interesting. Obviously, it's a unified channel, but Yeah, I don't know who wrote this and I don't know if the person speaking it is is the person who holds the views I don't really it doesn't really matter because we're just responding to the video as content anyway There's been a lot of talk figuring that out back and forth lots of reddit threads and stuff either way We're gonna see this they've they've written a response to the criticism. We've seen responses on Twitter. We're gonna check out all those It's gonna be wonderful. Yeah You guys ready For what are we doing? Oh you and watch together. We're gonna watch a video Yeah, we're watching Jack Sparrow. Oh, is it not showing up for you? It is. I just Okay, Theo get in the room They just stopped normalizing piracy only shows three for me rejoin off The myth but I'm there Wait, so how am I I can see forces fine with me Skyrim what what's this video Skyrim's opening how not to start a game? Yeah, Skyrim is one of the most overrated games of all time. It's actually not really that good. I Don't know why people are fucking. I don't know why people adore Skyrim. I'm like I'm actually a little bit Confused but all right. That's tension. Oh, it's fun This is working for everybody though, right? I Supposed to eat it wolf. I do eat it. Why do you not roll it?   I think that couch is very kind of suggestively phallic Yes, and the color does scream penis to me a little bit does scream And We're answering the real questions here on e-fap So yeah, just I'm just gonna hear him out again.     It's like what is this? Like what is this opening? So how about all the time where I'm playing like my favorite PVP shooter and all of a sudden I'm a communist I didn't ask well communists are okay. No communists. No, they're not see not to mention Right if you play if I for example play as the Americans or you guys play as British It's like we yeah, we can just trade on nationality for the day until you stop playing of which since you go to communists Mauler got me to watch Chernobyl and it's stellar. Oh, did you like that last episode dude? You like it? Oh, geez is great man. I did the whole I did all five in a row. I was up till six in the morning So good if you haven't seen Chernobyl you get with a program and watch to the Chernobyl But back to the video You get called a Nazi that you recommend Chernobyl So I remember I was playing my favorite PvE Transhumanist cyberpunk game and all of a sudden boom I was a cyborg named Adam Jensen and I didn't ask for this Sound like you asked for it. I was to quote someone from the chat I was playing Dead Space to multiplayer the other day. I know it does exist. It's okay.  I was I was playing my actually yesterday legit I was actually playing my favorite World War one themed battlefield game and boom. I was British I didn't ask for this. Why not? Yeah, I was playing Halo the other day and all of a sudden I was blue I didn't ask for it. Well, it was your armor blue or were you a like a blue alien like my armor was blue Remember when you could play as an elite. I Remember those days those I remember when Halo was good back before you know Why hated the whole red business this is blue thing for who the hell's the baddies red or blue? How do you know? How do you know? Well, if you watch red versus blue it tells you oh I was playing my favorite Call of Duty modern warfare 2 game and then before I knew it happened boom.   He's no no no Nazis stop it It's all by saying they're dressed cool.  I wouldn't know enough to know But like I can I can tell you is that the guy on the right is German Didn't Fringy tell us before we did this call that World War two you fought or world at war rather There was like fighting against the Vermacht not necessarily the Nazis Oh, well, this is we're gonna be having to go into that throughout this video in 1940 were Nazis every single one down to the last man-woman child and Cow everyone joined the Nazi party every single one just like how in America today Everyone supports Trump. I was watching Captain Marvel and bam. I'm the dog We we joke of course because the obvious response to this is yeah, whenever you play a game You're obviously choosing to play as whatever factions the game has in it It's it's such an obvious In your face response to this that it's almost not even worth mentioning It's almost like one side has to play as the bad guys Is like hey, can you believe that you chose to go and buy this World War two themed game? And you might in multiplayer be put on the German side. Can you believe like oh? In the top left Scott need ammo need medic and it's like They're concerned about the mechanics.  Well, their name is battlefield five review 341. Oh, that's interesting The the class is there you have you know the marksman support medic So what is that that apex looking symbol on the left-hand side? Is that supposed to be the assaults new symbol now? Cuz that looks like battlefield five. So I only played the beta This is battlefield five things.  So yeah, I can't wait to not play this game What's the what's the nightmare scenario for this video's topic like okay? So I'm in the game.  We'll see you then I'll give you the nightmare. Sorry.  I start eating people alive That's also a concern. They're gonna address that in a future video. I think but yeah So I'd be like but Theo don't you don't you know Nazis are actually the bad and then you're like not according to this game This game treats the Nazis as the morally righteous and correct action Clearly the problem here is the play he's already like this is his first reference This is like a legitimate reference instead of being vague It's like battlefield five these guys boom you're a Nazi and so I'm like With you know you first of all I need someone who knows the references one to one to be able to be like So this is what they actually are or whatever, but talk about like guy in Both of the both the guys on the left they kind of like They I feel like I could be told they're from many factions and I could believe it.  They're probably not like over Lee Vermarked soldier. Yeah, and that's one of the complaints people had about Call of Duty World War two Is that the Germans were like you couldn't even tell that they were in the German side really because they were extremely female one ethnic and multi-gendered They were very the Nazis were very diverse and inclusive and their uniforms were It just didn't look like the Nazis at all So on this video's on this video's topic. I wonder how many professional Counter-Strike players and our terrorists Jesus We have a problem spreading Counter-Strike big they're all terrorists Apparently they're not historically accurate We'll try and keep track of chat So I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of insight and chat as to the accuracy of these this not in this video But the evidence is gonna use but I will we'll keep soldiering on you didn't ask for this You didn't choose this yet. There it is and it's treated no differently than playing a British soldier What does he mean?  It's like oh good And if he's like I'm said I'm talking about how they looked at just as soldiers. I'd be like, okay Yeah, it's literally what they are. That's what they are In a PvP game like this. I'm nothing but the vessel for a health bar and a gun That's all I am. What yeah, it's a competition between you and the other team And so we and it's themed for the world for World War two So one of the teams will look like the Germans and the other team will look like Americans or British or whatever And that's literally as far as it goes in ninety nine point nine nine nine percent of people who've ever played these games It's not even something that even comes to mind It's just guys World War two so one side's gonna be German the other side's gonna be American and then you play the game and The story I mean, is he gonna specify more than that or is he just differently than playing a British soldier?   I just like that. I'm paused it bad Okay Hey, listen, I don't know why I have to play as a British soldier.  I don't want you guys to be able to play as a superior race Jesus I don't wanna play as banana. Who wants to Who wants to play is who wants to play as the Americans really?  Who's the one like the Americans have done terrible things? I'm gonna please you married.  This is bad on so many levels No one should ever have a random chance of fighting for the Nazis No one should ever have a random chance of fighting for the Nazis. That is one loaded statement Yeah, you see the wording on that Not playing as a Nazi fighting for the Nazis. I was about to say like first of all It is a video game I want to make sure we're on the same page with that one The Nazi party of Germany It is gone Well, the the underlying core of this video is that they don't think that people can distinguish between reality and video games fantasy Which is something that you can establish from like an extremely early age is like a child is the ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality No, because you see when I played like a bionicle game when I was six years old I was like, okay. I'm actually a bionicle now Yeah, I'm a I'm a legal person. I got a better one. Well, maybe not a better one But just a really thematically relevant one cops and robbers So at the end of that game do the parents go robbers? This is wrong. You shouldn't be robbing. Okay Ops, you did great Like you guys were awesome Keep it up because everyone that played payday two decided to go out and rob some banks I was gonna say how does this not apply to literally everything that has you do anything morally dubious in any kind of media? Because nazis are worse than literally everything in the world even though communism killed a lot more people I do like the idea that they would probably argue.   That's what gamers love that We we love to be lectured to about morality liberal to that's That's really relevant to the kind of experience that they're looking for in a multiplayer game That's why I bought a world war two game at all is to explore The moral implications of each faction that was involved liberal tears and chat said guess what I did after playing the airport level in mom warfare 2 Walked through while your buddies shot everyone in the air. No, he didn't speak Russian Oh, right Also, do you like how they they try to be serious about this subject matter and then they've got nick cage as a possible player In the wheel normalizing Nicholas cage. I'm just like guys. Do you want to you're you're making a serious point? Stop normalizing banana bad on so many levels No one should ever have a random chance of fighting for the nazis Yeah, so as he said fighting for the nazis is very interesting and a random chance. It's like why do you say that like it Isn't that almost get auto sorted into teams? Isn't that isn't that sufficiently detaching you as in you had no control over it?  Let's ignore that to make the video look bad Oh, I guess it doesn't count because you'd have to play the single player. Most people just don't they only play multiplayer When people choose teams and multiplayer, it's generally based around whatever the map is and whatever a team might have an advantage in the map Yeah I think I spoke to rise about this before we heard about this video.    Yes, you can you know, we just said this We should never express that there's no meaningful difference between them. I'd be like so Even in in the scenario in which I am literally just Labeling factions to you in a in a like clinical manner.  Well, that's the thing. He's like, uh, you mentioned them. You need to clarify how evil they were Like like I'm sorry.  Like we understand the difference between Yeah, this whole video is about how dumb they think the audience is even then is that the game's responsibility? Anyone that has learned anything in school knows the nazis were bad. No, this the responsibility of this school That's not even his point though. He's he's assuming that that is true It's that this game is slowly convincing us that what we've learned in school is necessarily true They're normalizing the nazis By playing as them in the game. You're apparently somehow representative of their ideology and thus are becoming desensitized Do you think that could ever happen? Is there even a case of that happening where someone has said nazis aren't so bad because I played them in a video game and they had the same mechanics as the good guys That's why I probably know the crisis scenario like how does this get to the point of being a problem It sounds so disconnected. It's like, you know, this banana convinced me to assassinate the president You'd be like but I just have to go Multiplayer games especially the component the world the multiplayer component of world war two games They're completely devoid of any moral or narrative It's literally just a vehicle for you to fight another team To have a first person shooter So when people see that if anything they're going to be like nazis were a faction And they fought against the southern team and that's it.  Jesus Meaningful difference between you know in do multiplayer.  Yeah, you guys know that Functionally interchangeable and before anyone fashionable fashionally interchangeable.  They won't put swastikas on their People that they're trying to represent as nazis. They won't put swastikas on them They have iron crosses on them, which aren't nazi symbols. So yeah, I read I read a comment that says something like that's been A relevant symbol Germany for like more than a thousand years or something ridiculous. I don't know if that's true, but that's that's their modern That's their that's the bundes. We're bundes. We're bundes fierce That's the that's like their military symbol currently Well, so the real message is Germany is bad.  What do you mean? It's true. Iron cross is an emblem of german military current one current one.  I was supposed to say like In the game. Yeah, and it's like is this a problem What do you want them to do? Do you want us to have like if you're on the nazi team? We start off the match by like barbecuing some jews just to tell everyone that Then they have an arrow and it says this bad No, it's come on when gamers play video game balance comes first essentially You need to have some kind of balance.  I don't want to play it then Why do I need the game to tell me that?  What if you vote for trump? There's a reason why the game has a responsibility because you see if you go to the extra credits channel And you look at their youtube banner Um and as they have said for a long time because games matter You see besides these are the remember extra credits. They've made a video saying that Everything is political litter. Everything is political.  That's the natural result of people Wish that everything is political narrative.   It's like The air you breathe is as a result of policies on pollution and therefore your very existence is political Everything is the sun Everything is the sun The best you can say is it's political in the sense that it's a product of its time Well, this is my point.  Thanks for pointing that out. Yeah, it's like what you had for breakfast. That was political They would say that they would unironically argue that and it's frustrating because you're just like, okay guys The shower you took yeah last night. That's that was political And so obviously they're saying like all these fps games that haven't been making statements about nazis as thoroughly as they should be Have been degrading our society Can you believe it they've been getting away with it? They're gonna say that everything is political So as a result every game does no no game has an excuse for not having politics in it To push a political narrative because it was always political Nazis and allied soldiers or that they're functionally interchangeable And before anyone equivocates and says not all german soldiers in world war two were nazis Not all jim soldiers are both two nazis. So uh rip that Yeah, that's literally true though In fact, most of them it even it gets way more complicated than that the further you dig as well Like the idea that occupied countries that would have joined the armies like oh god Yeah, when you start considering that and then the fact that so many people would have just followed along because good god They don't want to die And like this level of nuance is almost like offensive to this channel because they'd be like hey Hey, that'll make people like nazis even slightly more and that's bad. They're evil. You're like guys What we said that nazis are bad, but also not every german in the 1940s was a nazi those those are not mutually exclusive things But let's let's hear the full argument here.   So if they're wearing the swastika and then there are an extension of the nazi party and like the form of warfare, I guess Then the game has to specifically tell you they're not a nazi in the worst sense Otherwise they are is what he's saying because every soldier and every army is expressly and personally Supportive of all of the government policies have happened that that are happening. I like that. He says that works like it's even before you I just want to say that he says a psychological through line like he just says that like that makes sense Even before you get to that point.   That's how it works Yeah, every united every us soldier that you play in any game that takes place at whatever time Like modern warfare and we play if you play call duty modern warfare Then every one of those soldiers is personally endorsing and supportive of the president and all of his policies You know in america, I don't know the rules are elsewhere But you're basically if you're in the military, you're not allowed to wear your uniform at like political events or political rallies or anything like that And during the our government meetings the the chiefs of staff for the military They're not allowed to like clap or anything for the president. They always have to remain basically like neutral So This is a this this argument is really really dumb. It's um, it's not just dumb. There was an argument. It's a little bit harmful to Like to to sort of categorize Soldiers and policy this way. It's like this is really really not educational I'd like to I mean if anything the fact that they're so mechanically identical in games Gives the impression that the nazis were just people too the germans were just yes, which and That humanizes them which is a good thing because ultimately the humans they are human and You can treat that as either a warning for a potential Oh, it they were human and i'm human and look what happened to them So, you know, we need to keep history in mind, you know But it's Also the sense of if you start D, you know, you can't just dehumanize people because you know, that's what the bad people you hate did so You're gonna have to have some kind of consistency It's okay the other way because they're wrong. Oh, okay. That's right Yeah, I was gonna say in fairness all of our counter arguments here worthless because the nazis were really bad While everything else isn't as bad as the nazis being really bad Okay, and are functioning as an arm of the nazi government then unless the game goes Also functioning as an arm of the nazi government. That's pretty like Well, how far does that go like what about a janitor in some School in nazi occupied janitor. He's like cleaning nazi. He's an extension of their policies. So Down with that guy of the nazi Um, ideological propaganda education system How embarrassing personally responsible. He should be shot Imagine he was like, no, no, we just mean people who are directly involved in the warfare itself. It would be like but Like oh, what do you know? So does hitler not count What about people making the bombs and the bullets and stuff in factories that should they be killed? Are they nazis? No, not killed rags. Just hated. Oh, okay Just hate them. I think that's yeah, it's more than fair They're functioning as an arm of the nazi government Then unless the game goes out of its way to tell you specifically that your These people just think their audience is stupid I like that this one just didn't work though Like this did work for literally anybody 10% is it possibly hard to get as a ratio on youtube? I'm not kidding If you asked people to get your video to a 10% ratio, you probably couldn't do it In that multiplayer shooter when it switched you to sorry, it does get me ahead a little bit You specifically that your particular character is not a nazi Then they're a nazi In that multiplayer shooter when it switched you to the german side Did it go out of its way to tell you that the person you're playing was pressed into service under threat of it Why oh my god, could you imagine the person you're playing as doesn't want to be here? You're like, okay Is it yeah? I know one wants to be it's like no one wants to be here. This is war.  I like that.   I want to get better at this game. I want to be competitive I want to play with my friends. I want to have fun.   Well, see it doesn't actually it doesn't actually bother me because yeah, it's multiplayer But uh, there are some games where you know, the germans start with german weapons Americans start with american weapons british start with british weapons and you know, it's kind of thematically cool You know, it's kind of nifty. I like stuff like that I think like davin for me was like that or if you were on the view around the nazi side Then you would start with the purities and I just wanted to unlock the ppsh and will it war.  I immediately was like, you know, I'm converting to islam and I'm blowing up buildings now The bomb has been planted. Does he think that the terrorists think they're terrorists? Um, I hope that they never play a game that takes place during the revolutionary war I just like the idea that you have Let's say quote-unquote the enemy faction make a video game And then it pauses you whatever you play as the american slash terrorists And it tells you about how bad they are that extra credit would be like, yeah, no, this is in line with what we're talking about Yeah, oh wait. No, no, no, you got it backwards.  I'm sure you'll he's just saying He's just saying stop it. No, just stop. Also. Yeah, just highlighted chat. They bought the game. How is this forcing them? They literally paid for this experience They know what they're getting into I typically would assume.   Or whatever and this guy's sitting on the sofa with you. He's like, hey rags Did you know you're playing as a terrorist? Yeah, that kind of makes you a terrorist Oh Like this is why I don't invite you over george. Yeah. Yeah, I'll keep that in mind this This guy sounds like he's great at parties Like super smash bros. I stopped forcing me to play as a an italian plumber Yeah, you're appropriate the culture anyone I might y'all go underneath your sink and check for leaks God I'll just do that Yeah, just do that and besides did you pay for that experience or did they force you? Be honest In line with me. Oh, oh nine.   You're the counter terrorists thematically it works in the game because you have small scale One team is trying to blow up a random box in the middle of nowhere for whatever reason And the other team's trying to stop them Okay This is such a mainstream game too Like call of duty Counter strike some of the most popular games that have existed and they've been around for ages and they're like Yeah, all of this this has been a problem this whole time It says terrorists win Think of the children The children that shouldn't even be playing the game. I don't want to think about children though Choose this and yet second first same as the first there it is I mean, that's literally the name of your side in the game. Yeah, we see it Yeah, even if you put aside all of the people who have had traumatic experiences with these groups who have lost I don't care about This seems awfully biased I don't care.  No, every single if you want to if you want to analyze it to an anal degree Every every country has done bad things. I mean, how do you think these people would react? to playing civilization Dear god when not when when gandhi releases the nukes. They'd be like, you know what? I thought people were peaceful. I just I made the mistake Look, I just I just don't care. Um, I'm just I'm just over the holocaust. Yeah, it's just bad Yeah, sure. I I get it. I don't care What if you forget rags forever? I love this guy throwing them up as like a defense though. I doubt he has any like Any personal ties to any relations to someone who was hurt by the holocaust or anything like that. No, he's gonna bring it up I'm sure he's speaking for them This is just think of the children just a set of children It's think of the victims out there of actual terrorism. How do you think most of which are dead at this point anyway? So what about the people who died trying to fight the Nazis who were German? What about all like the high-ranking officers that died when they they wanted to organize the assassination of hitler? Multiple times. Do we care about them? No, well, it's just every faction has I mean I mean that's this is the thing one of the comments that I read was Is like you're just being forced to play as the Americans So what if you're the victim of some American American incident? What if you're?   This isn't the only thing you're ignoring Like you you brought this up almost if kind of feels like points for his argument He's trying to bring this in as like hey people were made upset and and you know Their lives are potentially ruined by these events. It's like, yeah A lot of people's lives were affected.  Do you really think like I know you just talked about it But like do you think america have never done anything that could possibly upset these the the countries these people come from By it's the same for literally every faction not just america obviously We're we're american and british in this podcast man Like we're like our country that have done terrible things in the past every just like every country ever So it's like we're there is no line to be drawn every country is just as guilty by this very same principle Yeah, we need we need the biographies of everything for every faction every time you pick them We need a whole movie and you're all explained And then he goes do you understand now now you can enjoy the mechanics of this video game Where it's just a competition to see who's the better shooter and the smarter shooter You just needed to understand all of those things every american soldier in a world war two game is personally supportive And is endorsing japanese internment camps Absolutely, especially if they wear the american flag and they are extension of the american army Policy whatever absolutely This guy's logic is flawless. So we have to make sure we go by it. No one should be forced to no one should be forced to do that It's like the video saying that context uh an abstraction just don't exist You you can't extract an event outside of its context original context for a different purpose That's that's not a real thing that happens. It's going on with the guy's head here, by the way This is a weird this is a weird person haircut. Don't if you're in the real world Like these people aren't uh, don't wear your hair like that. I promise you it looks terrible.  Look at that.  Like this is insane How far do you take this or who have had generations of their families wiped out by nazis? No one should have to put on the costume of an ideology they find abhorrent without actually I'm sorry. How does this not apply to literally everything? I don't understand. Yeah They don't well, they don't have to they're not forced to that You're literally opting into that by buying the game if a uniform means you subscribe to the ideology almost to that point like Does everyone understand fully the ideology behind every faction they've ever played in every video game? No Oh, it's not even every faction. I mean imagine going to walmart and putting on that walmart uniform You are now in support of everything walmart has ever done.  They don't have to play the game Yeah, they do they they have they're forced to it surprises me that a holocaust survivor Slash person who's lost someone to the holocaust would want to pursue playing a game About world war two and then to the point where they would be horrified To see nazis in any way shape or form in the game like I should be like, what are you doing playing it in the first place? What did you expect from this?  He liked animals too if you like animals, you're literally he was an artist has to go out it goes We can get rid of that one, right? We don't need odd. He had facial hair Oh god He was alive I think I covered that with oxygen, but yes Do we need to frame all games and all media and all entertainment with the idea that it is the Uh, the people out there who have ptsd or the people out there who are personally involved with these issues Who should essentially determine the content of that media for everybody else? I mean, is that is that really the world? Do you want to create that every scenario and setting and theme and any kind of media? Needs to be done with the understanding that ah, some people could be upset.  It's entirely Military based. It's you know shooting guns and driving tanks and calling out enemy positions.  It's like the worst thing ever Again for a first-person shooter in a multiplayer setting the aesthetic and setting are They're literally just there as vessels for your hitbox and your gun so that you can play the game against other people Yeah, you'll find out go beyond that in a multiplayer setting A lot of the player base are more concerned with balance and mechanics being effective rather than I hope this is the game That I don't know nazi's are more sympathetic because I prefer those words. I've been gradually a doctor It's like no, they don't really care. Well, what you do is you essentially make practically every conflict Uh, just a no-go for a video game Like the vietnam war thought you're not going to have that in this as a theme the korean war You're not going to have that as a theme a civil war I'll fought you now and definitely not going to have that like every war There is some component to it that they would find objectionable and they would make the game so bad It was as a result and so preachy that people wouldn't want to play him Because you can't just play a game with the theme of a war that happened with the historical context to it You just can't do that. You can't just stop there You can't just have fun with the video game. You can't do that. It'll be evil That would be terrible. You can't just have fun with the video game To stop thinking about it to stop thinking of the meaning behind these things. There is no meaning Normalize them. We make them just window dressing for entertainment Technically speaking that is true. They're the entertainment boiled down you would have Take all the colors and designs away It's like models running around with mechanics that are efficiently done through coding like that's the real thing that's happening the dressing is to Give you an environment that you're familiar with or at least are aware of being accurate to um Whatever the idea that it's like this is just windowed. They've treated nazis as window dressing. It's like, uh Kind of yeah, and it's like I don't know if that I'm confused. So if you go to like a museum and you see a nazi uniform and so I don't think Do we do that anyway right now actually? Yeah. Oh, yeah Like if you go to like I was at dc at the smithsonian and they're like, oh, yeah Here's an mp40 and here's german stuff and you know, here's a tank or whatever Isn't that kind of normalizing them? Isn't that really bad? Isn't that tuning everybody in america? I know all they do Can you believe for some of this nazi stuff or like this is an mp40 submachine gun? It held this many rounds it shot this caliber and it was produced in these numbers Can you believe they were normalizing the nazis? Jesus. They're just just just explaining Oh, yeah, I've actually got I collect money one of all the things I collect is like money historical Historical currency. I've got communist money. I've got nazi money with swastika and everything on it I mean, it's just It is what it is man. It's just a just a coin.  You know, they're coming back Imagine let's say you went to the the smithsonian museum of history I think they got a big they got a big section there about like military history.  They got all these artifacts and relics and Stuff like that and I could just imagine every time there was a british musket or a hessian uniform or a german Radio or anything like that. They had to write on the plaque Also, remember that nazis were very bad and immoral and they did bad things to jews and they were aggressors in this war Like how how patronizing and insulting that would be to everybody who walked into the museum, you know Just imagine that every single plaque. Oh, remember guys. The nazis were the bad guys. Just just see do you remember You know nazis are bad. You guys have seen v for vendetta, right?  Was there anything nazi related in that? Because I remember he had a koran and a bunch of other things because like the point of the film is that Everything is pretty much not allowed anymore. Like he's got this collection of amazing like things that you're just not allowed to even see I think the idea that The presentation alone of a nazi uniform is normalizing nazis. It's like, uh Pay a lot more proof is needed to you know, actually verify that Stop normalizing knowledge I was just seeing if anybody knew because yeah, I'd have to watch the scene again by just Here we are Addressing for entertainment those uniforms those symbols become things that no longer inherently revolt Can you believe that you aren't inherently revolted by a nazi uniform? A symbol that's not even as we pointed out is still used today. You should be revolted by it Can I ask how this is a bad thing? I was gonna say like maybe you shouldn't be revolted immediately by inanimate objects Can I then from there say that this reminds me of the what was it five minutes hate in 1984? Where you're supposed to see a thing and then immediately trigger a visceral hatred of that thing until the entire crowd's up in a frenzy This part of the video does it does imply the idea that you shouldn't think critically or be able to analyze things Objectively, you should just look at something and be revolted by it. That's the that's the proper response to have to be revolted by it Not that it's yeah, not that it's bad to be revolted by what the nazis did, but we're talking about just looking at symbols That's a terrifying concept This whole idea that you can't look at a uniform It's it's it clothes that people wore at one point in history. He's like, what do you just want to learn about it? What it is what everything on there means Why was why was this like that? Why was that like this? What were the reasons behind its design?  Is this a problem for historians too? Like when they're doing their study and such like And going about the writing of their work But Is it is it bad that they don't immediately like open up a nazi archive or something and go? I mean look at the look of the image they got that guy's green in the face tongue is out Yeah, five-year-olds He has like If you want to learn if you want to think critically Maybe you should put your emotions, you know on the back burner for a moment And then just analyze what you're looking at You think that this is like some weird projection that these guys are very concerned because they're starting to empathize with nazis And they're like oh god, how did this happen? I don't know. It was the video games. It was the video games Forms those symbols become things that no longer inherently just a helmet man They reduce our visceral reaction to seeing the environment I mean a lot of modern helmets look just like those nazi helmets because Yeah, because the the Wehrmacht's helmets were really good. They were really well designed But hey, I get well that's here's the thing too a lot of the german equipment was very well designed They had a lot of very intelligent engineers. They did a lot of smart stuff So if our instant reaction is to be, you know Repulsed and to revile these things just instantly then does that mean we're not allowed to Take the things the nazis made or the germans made in 1940s and use it for our own purposes I mean, can we not use, you know, nazi rocketry information? Can we not use their military technology? Can we not do you should literally throw up on the blueprints?  It's a nazi symbol You know these two faces like if you turn this the guy with the tongue thing and it goes down to the thinking emoji I'd be like seems like a good progression like that. We've we've managed to come far enough from the event now to be like, okay Actually think critically about the entire thing. No, it's considering nazism. You can't consider that I think it's good to consider literally everything about things Again, the fact that he's advocating for sticking with a specific knee jerk reaction to iconography completely out of context Fucking terrifies me I know You guys think critical thinking can you guys think of any sort of faction that encouraged a disgust toward like Just a group of of people that had something that unified them. No one would ever do that. No, I can't think of anybody who'd do that Could be anybody of these ideologies Now does this make us totally ignore the history that comes with them?    Nope. Not the The style helm's been in use for long before. No, but nazis used it How dare the nazis make something that's effective at its job crowded animal chat. I went over the edge. I'm so sorry There's no coming back. You're done. Can you believe the nazis wanted to prevent their soldiers from potentially dying of head trauma? That's such a nazi thing to do rags such a nazi thing to do The worst part is they look good at it to speak The history that comes with them. No, but for some people it moves them from the territory of revolting to just edgy It makes strong as swastika.  Yeah, that's why they do it because people like you Like they're not actually nazis. They just want to get a reaction out of you It makes sprawling a swastika on why you why is he graffiti a swastika on an animal tiger?  Why? Because it's edgy to I to be fair not even I have ever considered painting a swastika on a tiger I mean, I this is edgy in the sense that a bunch of sharp edges are going to claw into his face and kill him, but You think yeah, let's do what hates swastikas on the animals Yeah, and like so and if we take him literally so he said that it goes from being an action that you consider unthinkable to dangerous and it's like What do you mean by dangerous like that? We're assuming the person doing this thinks it's dangerous Do you are you saying that they think? It's like cool dangerous. Is that what he's saying? And I thought that if you if you thought this stuff was revolting Then you wouldn't do that.  This is it would be dangerous to do this But uh, it's still dumb Is I'll bite you and just edgy it makes sprawling a swastika on something I used to be a nazi like you until I took a tiger to the knee It means you might not take iron crosses all over a website as a warning sign But iron crosses aren't bad. It's just hold on a minute. This is a german symbol But now they're explicitly saying iron crosses. Yeah, they've they've made it very clear now. They can't go back They've just said iron crosses. So as this guy ever Does oh, I get it now.    They're like but But that's but the national symbol that we use for our military But what it's like this guy saying stars and stripes the american flag imagine seeing that not being repulsed by it I was like but but that's our flag Why It's so insulting. It's just so insulting to these people It's just like and surely the content of the website can be warning enough Well, I yeah, I think the url is just a symbol. Do you guys check the url there?  It's the symbol. It's it's not the message It's it's not the meaning of what's actually happening. Nope I love the degree in which they have dubbed this down Cross bad on website of hate.com It's like a milk. This video is like a propaganda film for children. Yeah, it is.      Look at this kid guys. Look at he's so innocent. He doesn't know he doesn't know He's been playing his video games. He didn't know He didn't know someone. Please think of the children poor timmy. He was my favorite It seems like such a small and simple thing, but it's things like this that erode our safeguards against Ignorance is our safeguard.  Yeah Talking about it is bad 1984 wasn't an instruction manual It's it's fascinating The acid of discussion finds out that he loves big brother. That wasn't supposed to be seen as a good thing Timmy is Dodd's son He was a straight arrow that he read that book Read that goddamn book and he read then he read mine camp and it was all downhill from there Blessed is the mind too small for doubt Guys you need to be more ignorant Otherwise you might find ideas Small and simple thing But it's things like this that erode our safeguards against dangers We sacrifice so much to fight by the time you've played a hundred hours of we sacrifice so much to fight Stabs become means and in jokes with your friends. Yeah Yeah, it is like literally when I see people getting murdered in video games.  It can be a It could be the funniest damn thing in the world Did anybody in chat your compilations of uh, halo deaths because the physics engine makes people. Oh, yeah It's so hilarious. Did anyone he's held anyone on chat in So i'm just like because this is a really fond memory.  Just watching our bodies go Over and over again I remember in bad company too if you put enough explosives under a four-wheeler you'll fly out of the map That shit's just fun It all comes down to the fact that People can distinguish between fantasy and reality and it's actually really really easy when it comes to video games But I I don't know. I it's like I said Propaganda film for children if you want to make all these points, how do you not make them for violence just in general? Well, that's another thing that the comments are one of the obvious things is like this was the This was the jack thompson argument of violent video games make people violent And now whenever anyone says that it's like it's a meme because it's so ridiculous This is the exact same thing Just substituting violence for something else. Yeah, he's just he skipped over that pun. He picked something specific It's just like all your arguments, uh, if we were to take him if he was right Let's just say he was right when he said that everything he said is true Yeah, video games have to go movies have to go pretty much everything has to go Abstraction has to go. Yeah, like any kind of fantasy content has to go. It's just like guys. It's too dangerous How do we know that world war two video games don't turn people away from nazis more than they would Be attracted to it I mean, I what if what if this entire time? You know, world war two games were a way to get people interested in that historical time period and as a result They read 99.999 of the literature that said yeah, nazis were ideologically really bad There's not exactly a lot of pro nazi literature out there Played company of heroes now. I'm an american g. I I was easy Natsi their voice stabs become memes and in jokes with your friends by the thousandth time you respond as a terrorist You're either celebrating them. Tell me you're either celebrating them or oh my god Terrorist rule Person also the uk is mysteriously missing Also is like the throat of energy drinks I think I might be out of sync with you guys. I'm still back on him saying terrorist rule We're on the planet of despair right now jokes with your friends by the thousand you got you got the throat of energy drinks Yeah, he said by the thousand Yeah, and he has a little speech bubble that says terrorist rule.  It ain't the video game Yeah Time you've respond as a terrorist. You're either celebrating them or making Terrorists rule The global crisis we have that takes thousands of lives every year. Oh my god. So what do we do? That's easy don't make them morally they're not they're not how the marley equivalent multiplayer game you tar There's no moralizing There's none. It's all completely just it's a multiplayer game go shoot the other team Outfight the enemy team with the game capture objectives score points. That's all one of them. What's the morality of chess? Tell me um patriarchy I got another The soldiers are sacrificed in favor of the sacrifice all the lowly soldiers in favor of keeping the higher ranks alive It's all it's nepotism You you got the point, right? It's like you can't it's like chess is saying something is one side is good one side is bad You're like, well, yeah, it's in support of monarchy. I mean you have a king a queen everybody The queen's the most powerful you can't deny it people on the board not the proletariat ponds in the front line White always goes first damn All right, it was a bad example.  It's all about what the whites want. It's never about what the blacks want What about if I invert the colors to enable the one? It's true. What about if I make it all gray? Huh, I make it all gray and then the paddles and the ball are slightly darker shade of gray Well, now your game is just an effew to the colorblind and that's ableist Damn it. There's no winning. Everything's political guys Just stop making media. All right.  It's the stat. It's when you when you're choosing your faction and when you choose your class, right? You have your morality statistic And that factors and it's like charisma in a way It factors into a lot of other different stats that your character will have And the more morality you have the better you are at everything Like edward torso. We're lower body We're perks guns ammo morality that you can't choose.  You should make really creepy noises Should be caricatured portrayals of people you disagree with and don't like That's a really good way to do yeah And if you're american like screenshots of it and put it on posters and then post them around cities Yeah, just to make sure everyone's away. That's all you need to make sure Yeah, yeah, I mean it is the truth like we're just saying it's the truth And then you know americans and british whatever make them really buff and really altruistic and They can take bullets like as many as the throne of them, but germans like even at the site of a bullet They just go fall over because they cowardly and they run away I think this works that should do it right like that that sort of solves the problem good I'm glad that we yeah people will definitely play those games.    We should have a nerf fight We don't want anyone to get hurt But I wouldn't play a world war two nerf pvp game I would be insulting to the people who were in world war two on both sides No people actually got channelizing The you know what happened during that war and again It's like they don't think people can distinguish between fantasy and reality So they have to use use nerf guns Use water guns.  We're in the part of the video where he's supposed to have like demonstrated the problem and now he's offering the solution But he hasn't demonstrated the problem The closest that he's got to that is saying that little timmy said terrorist rule edgy And then if it gets too bad or something I don't know someone hits him over the head and get so stop being an edgy count We gotta stop him from thinking terrorist rule. It's simple or their parents just go Dude stop and then it's done Can parents really achieve such a thing? Parents really parent we should step in and find out and make sure they can yeah at this point I think we should just get the state to teach the children Regardless of the parents just take them away. What do you guys reckon? Yep, gotta gotta get this sorted because good god if I've realized anything from this video It's that we have problems. We gotta solve them And every five minutes or so other than axis versus allies A good example of a game that does this is rainbow six siege all of your bomb diffusion and hostage rescue No, no taking hostage it. What is it taking hostages is not no. Oh my god What are the one of the teams first off? Let's let's skip the fact that they use like poison gas And trip mines and bullets and they murder each other No, that's fine. I mean, yeah Forget that and to forget that one side like has captured hostages. They have to protect from an attacking team But you know that they're all trying to kill each other, right? Yeah, but they're not nazis though But there's yeah, but there's germans some of the some of them are german Yeah, actually, let me see if they were across rags. Is there a cross? German operators, so they have gsg9 Are they an extended arm of the nazi government? No Blitz like who jager and bandit So I wonder do they have the iron cross on their No, they have the they have the eagle to have the police. Well, then they go then i'll not see I lend this from extra credits In fact by having all of the characters as counter terrorists training for a possible threat It highlights how real and present of a threat that is and if you decide that you need to have both sides be playable Don't make them interchangeable. Yeah, but but that creates about what that creates balance issues Yeah, well, well, this is the thing if he's talking about mechanics He's wrong because we need it to be balanced and fair the whole point of a competition But then if he's talking about morality, I don't know what he's referencing Yeah, what game out there is treating these two as morally equivalent? Apparently there's an iron cross on the jager skin in that game Is there? Yeah, that's surprised me in that case. It's a nazi game. So no Yep, can't have that Nazi game go away Have players randomly spawn in as one or the other allow players to choose which side they're on Now if most games do that as far as I'm aware They'll have auto balancing for putting people on different sides But all I'm highlighting because I don't think it's a problem They will eat on a team that that there's too many of you can only join the team You know, so one side doesn't get stacked against the other right Like if it's 12 verse 14, you can't join the team that's got 14 people in it, you know And then bam just like that you're a nazi It's pretty exhausting. It's not even a long video It's very it's densely packed with stupidity. Hmm What what what what? What we're going back I'm afraid it's not it's not even working for me right now I am apparently out of sync so If you're joining the other team Which isn't even your choice in most games you have to wait longer What kind of retarded It doesn't make any sense, buddy. That's how you kill your games pvp setting Yeah, but at least hey listen people can't play as nazis if there's no game to play All right So it didn't play on my end So if we just let it go again, we'll make sure that the audience because I'm pretty sure I know what your reference Like don't have players randomly spawn in as one or the other allow players to choose which side they're on Now, of course, this has all sorts of in-game problems Yeah, creating shorter wait times for fascists, but you know what those wait times could be artificially extended Oh Framing that just quickly show a wait times for fascists. Yeah, shorter wait times Yeah, so to clarify he's I guess he's saying like People will get into the game quicker if they're choosing If they choose fascists quote-unquote because most people will be choosing the heroes and then he's like Oh, well, we can inflate the wait times for the fascists to fix that And nobody plays the game.  No, there's just no enemy team Yeah, it's just it's like you did it. It's just americans You did it. It's like there you go. You don't be desensitized. Like there's no there's also no game You need two factions in order for the multiplayer game to proceed american. This is american training. Yeah, american verse It's awful war. Okay, sure It'll be great If it meant players had an active choice in what teams they would represent if i can still make it No, people will be waiting for four minutes Not like oh this game's only been waiting for two minutes I still got two minutes to jump in and then wait two more minutes for the game two minutes is a pretty long time to wait That is a long time. Yeah I mean if i'm sitting in a lobby for two minutes that i'm probably just going to jump out and find another one nazi's in our games And if you're going to say but we need look at the way to draw this guy Look at this.  Like oh you used to be accurate to history. Oh Look at that. Look at that belly.  He's wearing a cape All right. Captain purple hair here. It's gonna really analyze this look at this dude.   Why not after all you can respawn zombie unicorns everywhere Also, they can they can drive cars um But i'm 16s in the civil war.  I mean after all guy a who's like So we're gonna represent world war whatever we're gonna have the the accurate factions Let's find out who they are we'll have them and then this guy is like okay But you better craft each grain of sand on oma ha beach to the exact level of degree that they were in real life be like uh Well, that seems like a jump from what I was requesting but okay Stawning on me that this video is a six minute long slippery slope argument I mean, there's a lot of uh fallacies of this one Children I mean, and yeah, I'm most comfortable with referring to it as essentially propaganda Yeah And it's kind of creepy. I'd say this is pretty propaganda easy.   Like which have a faction one in real life. They have to win in that pvp batch. Is that what he's saying? Well, they do that in um boring that would be In battlefield one, there's a mode called operations and it loosely Recreates certain like campaigns and sets of battles that were on world war one and of course since it's a video game One of the sides can win and the other side can also win So if it doesn't happen how it had like it did historically then they just play it off and say Oh, you know, we were able we weren't able to hold the line We got to fall back and you know regroup later or we were able to push through the enemy You know forces and advance towards, you know, they're Whatever it was. I mean no one It in that that was never a problem It was never an issue this whole video is about creating an issue that doesn't exist And then saying to solve this issue that we've created we have to take away Creative freedom from development teams and treat people who watch our content like they're infantile idiots who need to be propagandized What a shame What a sham On those battles once you make both sides balanced. It's also no longer balanced in what way Why do you keep not Specifying because if he's talking mechanically it's such a meaningless statement because of course they're supposed to be balanced mechanically Every soldier reloads at the same speed, which isn't historically accurate Therefore you have no excuse to have nazis in the real war two game I don't think my gun has ever jammed in a world war two game No, yeah, well that means we can't have nazis because you're gun never jammed It's easy like i'm trying to do good faith here. I'm like so The moral argument is it the fact that there's no morality for either of them means they're on the same plane of morality because Yes, that's true That you're not told whether or not they're moral characters that you're playing as in this pvp game Because it doesn't matter seems pretty neutral to me That you used to play the game they're on the same plane of morality because they're not on the plane of morality Yeah, that's that's that's it. It's there is this is what I mean when he says they're balanced. I'm like you're not Torb of a moral they're not immoral. They're not moral. They're just completely removed from morality It doesn't even factor in it's pure abstraction addressing And you can't really say that you need nazis anymore for historical accuracy Oh, and once you let players get cool weapons that weren't actually That particular there it's also and in a battlefield one it has this I wouldn't even call it a problem, but it has this item to it What is up with the people with the fucked up hair in these cartoons, but so you have um You have guns like um You know what what's any of it the the hell the hell regal Which was like an experimental submachine gun That never saw combat and they only made like a prototype of it or something But it did exist during the time period it uses that time period's technology It is believable that it could have been used in some capacity And so it's in the game and you can and they even have like a codex for whenever you use guns I get like 10 kills with them or whatever You unlock a codex entry that you could read about the history of the weapon And the thing is if you were to have a world war two game that didn't have nazis in it People would instantly know that something was wrong And they would instantly know that something wasn't quite right But if you have the hell regal submachine gun In battlefield one Nobody raises a brow because it's extremely believable and it's accurate to the time period No one is expecting when you play these games to get an exact Perfect 100 percent Recreation of only what they would use at that specific battle and whatever these regiments had in their hands They're looking for the big broad things like General accuracy of firearms for the time period the factions that were involved.   Why would all are confused as to why you would con Like from what we've heard from this guy Why would you even consider it a valid argument historical accuracy? Wouldn't you just be like it's more important that we spread The the message that will lead us to a more moral and upstanding position in society rather than telling you know he's so focused on Treating these people despite acknowledging that everyone was affected Well, he acknowledges that one side was affected all the other I'm just like, you know, we're gonna brush over all of the humanity of of the evil man's And yet he's like, okay, you want to make this historical action. That's fair enough But you know, you've got to make everything accurate at that point I just like why are you even entertaining this argument if you're that kind of guy Who wants to literally pave over The Nazis as anybody associated with them was a morally reprehensible piece of shit Video games have As one of their incredible benefits Is that video games can get people interested In historical themes and settings and events that the otherwise wouldn't have known about I guarantee That after battlefield one came out There was a huge increase in interest for world war one history because Growing up normally world war one is almost always overshadowed by world war two But you put this stuff in a video game and millions and millions of people buy it and play it And all of a sudden hey now I want to learn about what happened What were the politics of this event that caused it to happen? What was the technology or the tactics? What was the development of arms and equipment and armor and all this stuff? and You can use video games as that vehicle to get people interested in this stuff But that doesn't mean they have to be these perfect, you know authoritative sources On the history of these events Hey, he's I was gonna raise that Oh wait, I think the Is it playing with you guys? Yeah, I just paused it I'm gonna try and rewind the watch together.  Oh, well, you can respawn. You can literally come back from the dead.  Why are you not letting me see the video?  I can't necessarily blame watch together. Um I'm gonna see if I can make a new room to fix this problem Oh, wait jolly trolley made a good comment. He said ironically rags. That's the tangent That is tangential learning the very thing extra credits started their channel for it's very true This video is in direct contrast to a lot of their older stuff Um, we're we're we sorry so I can I can drag it.  Let me let me reload myself Do you let players for me weapon 419? All right, you want to if you drag it to 419 rags and then play hopefully it's a 419 Okay Okay, I'll drag it to 419 do it I want to be useful then press play You let players get cool weapons that were actually at that particular battleground It's also no longer historically accurate and you can't declare that your game will suffer if you don't put players We still we good for the thing going it's 432 right now. Yeah, we're running. Would you say full 42? 432 I was at 429 probably roll it back if you can just to make sure I don't miss anything on my end because I you know We're a very professional podcast. Yeah, we got to make sure everything comes through otherwise. Wow, you guys cut their argument in half It'll happen It'll wash together and it's trying to Here we go It will suffer though That's what's so interesting is that people space no pause But that's something that people explicitly say when they review these games and when they talk about these games is that there is something that's so Obviously historically wrong with this that it ruins their immersion for the game And people say this all the time And this extra credits video is like oh it claims it it'll ruin it is like it does people that's just some people say all the time It's like when I it's like if you see black female nazis in your world war two game Is that yeah for a lot of people that really kind of takes them out of it I'm gonna open up a new room because it's being asshole. Hopefully this fixes it if it doesn't We'll see about what happens next We'll use an alternative. There are alternatives to watch together. That is true Uh, rabbit's shit, uh, yeah, not rabbit. It's an alternative, isn't it? Yeah, there's other ones though Um, okay Rags you jumping in Uh All right, jack sparrow featuring michael bolton.  Oh, so much wrong with what you just said.  What's uh, what's a famous? Let's say that I've never been to iwo jima I don't know anything about the island. I don't know. It's layoutist geography and I play a Game set in world war two where you are a marine expeditionary force and you're fighting the japanese on iwo jima And I step foot onto the white sandy beaches of iwo jima And fight into the the jungles and the woods and I fight the japanese that's that's that But then all right, but then later Somebody tells me oh, but iwo jima was a volcanic island The sands were very dark black.  Oh, that's interesting But when I played that in the video game, I didn't know that and so it didn't take me out of the immersion at all You don't have to have a 100 faithful recreation of things Especially if those things are things that pretty much nobody knows That's why people are fine with the hell regal being in world war one But they would not be okay with ak-47s being in world war one There's degrees to these kinds of things in sands of abstraction Find it creepy that go has had his mouth taped over in this image I find it creepy how i'm being portrayed as some kind of psychopath for liking history Like did you see the look on the guy's face when he was constructing the replica of?  He looks horrifying So he's a liking history. I guess this person's smiling while they're like be silent Yeah, it's like lime zero says in the chat It's like hot spirit of the whole thing not exact details of historical accuracy I mean looking at this picture.  You you don't have the exact architectural layout of I don't know this this a French village whatever So that means you can't have a battle there in your world war two game unless you to the inch Um or to the centimeter.  Why is the guy who cares about history fat, too Who's fat? Well, he's sort of demonize him Quite the hairline too. He's But then oddly lima bean shake and the other dude with the with the purple Hair. Yeah, is that even a dude? I don't know actually that might have been offensive what I just said Sorry de on his shirt for dude No, I think I think D means definitely correct while the other one means definitely horrible I don't know. I don't know. It might actually be developer. Yeah, I don't know.  That's kind of sounds like what you're saying about world war two or a you can still make games about world war two They just have to be terrible. They have to be sanitized or overtly propagandized Yep, you can have games about world war two multiplayer. They just have to be terrible I like the idea as well responsibility of the developer the developer the good developer is like, okay But you know in this in my game this guy isn't actually like fully on board with the nazi idea I was just like, okay, okay, so show us his introduction And it's just like your standard sort of story where it's a slow reveal about this character I was like, no right at the beginning you need to make it extremely clear exactly what this guy thinks and how he's a good person That sounds like good storytelling to me like at the beginning of Assassin's Creed 3 You play as the character who you know jumps around on the walls and stabs people and assassinates and gets on the boat and everything And then you learn that he's not an assassin He's with the Templar the whole time I thought he ah and it was like a nifty little reveal, right? Yeah to show the ambiguity of some of these things Can't have that No, I was gonna say that's too vague kind of And even then we don't even reach that point because he's talking about the weirdest target possible in multiplayer first person shooters It's the thing man expand this out where I go to get my lessons on history and uh, morality is multiplayer games Yeah It's not like there's other kinds of experience out there that could provide for what you're looking for No, you go to a completely different kind of experience with the same aesthetic dressing multiplayer video games That's where I get my morals from I'm not even saying we shouldn't make games where you play as a nazi or a terrorist But what we are saying is that the fact that you're playing as a nazi or a terrorist in a game has to mean something You still have to establish why Yeah, and mean something. What do you mean? It means that it's a multiplayer game that's balanced with the other team It means the game's fair and I can enjoy it. You realize this is why we have single player games, right?   Look there one eyebrow up That's the game. It's like saying it's What does that mean the gate the is the game like, huh? I don't know why she's so bothered. Is that what it's trying to say And like the game's trying to hide from the player that it made them a nazi or something. I don't know Very strange drawings. It's like a cute little huh. That's the game back there That's that's the personified game that made you a nazi.    Tell us so we can sense of them. They're like, it's okay children Yeah We will tell you who are the evil ones It's not even that.   That's a no buy for me. I'm not buying that No, thanks. I'll play something else where I can get into a game, you know Pretty much instantly cognizant of the world around us Yeah, it's really lagging on my end. I'm actually getting a video right now. I'm at I'm at 531 I got nothing. I'm just spooling. I'm assuming is it work for you three? Yeah, apparently they're two seconds ahead of me because I'm at 31 I got nothing. I'm stuck all the way back at 521 Here, let me check this out. Um You watch together together tube.  I'm not even sure if it's like that It's some weird combination 9% wow There's the efap crew get in there uh getting their dislikes in there. I guess I don't really know how people could resist if it's if it's possible I was about to say like uh I can I'm gonna play the last 30 seconds locally So that um, oh, I guess we could test this do that a try see how that works You can do that Uh, no sophistic autistic.  Well, anyway, whether or not we figure this one out Like I said, I'm just gonna play the last 30 seconds of the videos for the stream. So check and hear it out We'll go from there These symbols we're drawing on mean that we think as we're building Now the actual youtube video is lagging. Okay, it must be on my end God damn This is what you get for living in that shitty Britain country that we think as we're building not just about the game We're working on actually what he gets for living in that shitty wales country wales Um, oh, it's risky I kind of want to go and restart my internet to try and get it clear and cleaner But there's a chance it'll split the stream into two if I don't do it fast Well, I can hear you just fine. That's the weird thing you guys I'm hearing you guys fine.  What does he say? I'm normalizing nazis because games can be better and stuff All it requires is that we in the game industry be cognizant of the world around us and what these symbols were drawing on We think as we're building not just about the game. We're working on but about the world as a whole If we can do that we can take a big step forward for the industry. We can stop helping to normalize nazis Okay, um, that didn't go well for them Yeah, they're nine percent. They broke the they broke the double digit boundary. They are now at nine percent I wonder what the the lowest rated video that has a significant amount of votes on it, you know, like beyond 10,000 let's say yeah Oh YouTube rewind Yeah, that's probably better I'm going to only one worse than this is the one that youtube made I'm going to try and restart my internet quickly.  I've done it before if not, it'll just be great and nice thingy But I shouldn't be longer than 10 seconds. Hopefully it worst. It'll be worse. You're right back. Yeah Um, yeah So well, um, youtube rewind is at 17 percent and they have like 175 million views So that's a pretty titanic failure We are Allow us to entertain you with our voices We'll serenade you with our something or other No, mine. No No, not yours. You haven't gotten to that level just yet I have a lovely voice What pizza am I going to order? I'm not ordering anything. I'm like, I'm jelly. It has been done Yeah, now the test is their youtube videos are working for me. I guess we'll find out, uh The next thing that I was going to throw on was just a past video where they make a statement or two that are interesting. Um So let's see if I can get that working New watch together link once again everyone pile in Funny pandas epic laughs. Well, you know the panda the videos have never lived debt let us stray This gold how to stand up for games as a medium. Yes And this is back in february of 2012 When times were different We're here See a he set us back even further These games are not being judged because of their content They're judged because they are games countless filmmakers novelists and artists have tackled difficult subjects before and been Huh the video we're watching is this extra credits Yeah, oh Jesus that sounds this is them. This is them back in 2012 Yeah, this is the voice that everyone knows as extra credits has changed since then I don't like the voice but a lot of people do is just I think it's I think this is a terrible voice because it's Annoying and nasally and whiny and it sounds like they recorded themselves and then they just sped it up Sounds like v without the accent Kind of yeah But either way try and listen to what they're saying instead of uh, how would they say it? They're judged because they are games Countless filmmakers novelists and artists have tackled difficult subjects before and been celebrated for it Topics like war genocide sexuality hatred Many of these pieces are critically acclaimed and rightfully so they dare to explore humanity's dark side the ugly realities of the human condition They venture into uncomfortable territory and find the truth hidden within Oh Uh-oh Did not age well But the thing is a lot of people have been saying these are two different content creators at this point So you can't even compare it's just that I don't know a sad reality same name same, you know I mean you look at you just go to new replies and it's like Yeah, new replies on this video specifically Yeah, it's common. I presume this applies to everything except world war two games because all germans are nazis It's like that. He says you go through all the darkest parts of it to find the truth. It's like not anymore This is the stuff art is made of What is it about games that disqualifies them from exploring this harsh territory because they desensitize us to the nazi tizms Normalizes it stupid extra credits I've heard it argued that we need a rebranding that we need to take on a new title for this medium Kind of like how comic books had to take on the name graphic novel before they started getting the respect they deserved And maybe we do interactive experiences No Simulations No, that doesn't sound right either Well, while we're at it We also need to expand the scope of what we do to include more of the human experience and address a broader set of ideas But before any of that is going to happen. No, don't explore ideas Jesus Don't explore ideas be instantly revolved by symbology Do not explore them because you might come away with the wrong opinion Yeah, that's um interesting and then There's just a few other statements that are of interest once again. This is a newer Yeah Oh, yeah, this one a lot of people on this one are like, uh, yeah This is called propaganda games ethical game design Kind of seems like a propaganda video that we watched, didn't it? Didn't it? Of course, but I rarely heard that particular kind of slur flying around and now I hear them regularly And maybe that's just my experience. I mean, I don't have any official statistics to give on that But speaking for myself, I've heard enough of it to start feeling concerned Look, my point is there's danger in mechanically incentivizing actions in a game without thinking about what those actions mean By making the goal of these games to kill people of other races You're training people by fooling them into thinking they're choosing. It's their choice to pull the trigger They earned that headshot They made that kill and because of those compelling moment-to-moment choices You successfully divert them away from thinking about the larger questions Why am I killing these people? Are they really my enemies?  Yeah, they have they have iron crosses, which means you have to shoot them Like the aging of this is hilarious.  Of course they are to me. I like the chat killing your own race is fine though. Don't worry about that Go for it. Now don't misunderstand me I'm not saying that games can desensitize us to violence or turn us into killers Those are areas where we have some pretty strong mental barriers built. No, we don't No, no Oh my god, exactly. Clearly we cannot be trusted rest in peace Rest in peace But they can certainly have as much effect as any other piece of culture be it the news media or hollywood. Oh really This heavy focus on specifically fps games is kind of arbitrary because it's like everything Like oh my god, it's so embarrassing Because they're making the counter arguments for themselves like we don't know you have to do it at that point Um, so next up, which is this is so sad, but it's it's what happened.  Um, so I'm They're giving it to you guys and I'll throw it up on the screen You go. Oh no, so you got someone's screenshot It's obviously the video going to the pits of hell in terms of the ratio and so that didn't work out now Did it and rags when you read out her response? They response, whatever There so zo layer, uh the burl at the burl's uh community manager for extra credits, I believe I believe I don't think enough people seem to understand that one we fully expect this to happen every time we've uploaded a games or political video And that two we love losing all the bigoted subscribers. Are you kidding me? Less bigotry is great dislikes are still engagement Um, because if the people say dislikes are still engagement, they're totally not mad So if you if you didn't like the video you're bigot Yeah, that's it.   All right, we've got a follow-up here That I will see in any moment and it will pop up instantly In just one second. I will be able to see it. It was an album what I gave you Uh, let's see.  I'm guessing we're gonna have to break this down piece by piece. It's actually pretty long Okay. Yeah, so the extra pettit extra credits edited their pinned comment after things started going south for the video, which is admittedly fairly soon I edit Hey folks, this one seems to have struck a nerve already off to a great start We encourage discussion about the topic and I don't then there are some fair criticism of the video out there However, I wanted to address some of the comments that seem to have misunderstood some aspects of the video One we never said that playing as a nazi turns you into a nazi. Oh, didn't you? That's not how it works. That's not how any of this works However, there is plenty of research about how art and media can shift people's perspectives This is not a good or bad thing.  You're like, yes It's a back pedal to like the most obvious position ever that doesn't even back up Disagree with that.  Who are these people? It's like every far leftist wants to be the president now. I mean they're pretty funny I like the debate so no Oh, yeah, they're insane.  No, it's just not magic. Yeah, he's just not magic Uh two We never said that games should never let you play as nazis or terrorists for that matter If you need the exact time stamp, it's at 447 There's a lot of potential for some really interesting or impactful games that put the players in the boots of people Or in control of systems that have been that have done incredible harm But it can't be done thoughtlessly or just as a skin on top of mechanics devoid of context So yeah, that would ruin multiplayer for two games What you're advocating for would ruin multiplayer and when you when you're a neutral level of Amorality where you've not contextualized either side in any way shape or form the second that you do anything to any one of them It's like right. So where do we stop because now we need to you know, make sure we do it for all sides in all ways And it seems to me that they're only advocating for nazi man bad Nazi man bad and it's like, okay Seems a little bit one-sided and almost a little bit creepy in terms of like is that necessarily true? I'd like to refer them to this video. I just watched by extra credits. I don't know if they've heard of that channel They said like Why am I killing these people? Are they all evil? I guess they are the game said so they're wearing nazi iconography. They must be Oh, you mean the the cross. Yeah. Yeah. No, I've seen that cross in a lot of places Yeah, that that nazi cross the iron cross The nazi sticks All right, so for the guns. Yep Three for those saying that it's just a game and we shouldn't think too hard about it I feel like perhaps it might be important to introduce ourselves. Hi We're extra credits our tagline for a very long time was because games matter It's something we fundamentally believe and if you don't that's okay But then our content might not be for you because thinking hard about games is kind of our schtick You didn't think hard about any so fucking backhanded and yeah, it's very condescending condescending So, um, it matches the title of the video.  I go I ironically am asking that now I'm trying to imply that like Just because it's a game thus there has to be something incredibly important about it in a meta narrative. It's like not necessarily Uh, that would have to be something that's made aware to the player anyway Yeah, like I find it disturbing to like inject all of your sort of morality into a game that's trying to remain neutral Hmm because it's a video game It's a game More importantly like again a game that doesn't have a present. It's not even neutral It doesn't have a presence on the morality scale. It's a multiplayer game It's a shooter. Yeah, it's it's completely amoral. There's nothing moral about it Pong is neocon Four our writing staff is the same and we've always talked about politics and games in our other videos If this comes as a surprise to you or you think there's been a large shift in our thinking I'd invite you to take as take a look at some of our older episodes We live in a time where neo nazis exist And they seem to have increasingly found a home in gaming community What? Okay, I one of these days, maybe I'll find one. Why would gaming communities be the home of like, you know what I mean? Like what's the connection there?   Yeah, because it's after 1945 There will be some people out there who are still unironically nazi sure they've always been around There's like 12 of them. Can I get a source on this? I just the idea that they're like, we have no safe space, but that gaming happened and you're like, what? Why? Um, let's see. This isn't something we can turn a blind eye anymore And it's something to consider what we as game designers can do to try and make things better As said, there have been some very valid critiques of the video that we greatly appreciate Most important to us is in is to start talking about these topics And to have conversations about design Uh, for those of you who have kept civil in the comments. Thank you for those of you who need a reminder Our coc can be found here Okay, contact.   We can have some fun. Um, there are two videos that relate to this One made by our very own meme repository Uh So there you are just civilly disagreeing with the latest extra credits video When suddenly bam, you're a nazi you didn't ask for this.    Please don't do this.  It's terrible. I don't even play meme videos Uh, no terrible country, of course. I mean, I don't know if we can blame Britannia, but blame nazis not against it their fault So, uh, you know what will be good for for for me is to go into um meme images Next because that someone actually can handle with my internet right now for sure and it'll take us at least a good 20 minutes or so But if if it's still going after that, I guess I'll just do the reset again because I seem to fix it for a bit Um, but yeah, that was that was the saga of extra credit. It's pretty embarrassing I'm guessing they'll recover because I mean, they're a pretty big channel and they can just not do that again But like I said, there's a lot of The fact that they said you can go look at our older videos when their older videos essentially spit on this new one Is interesting to me and they said that their writing team is the same Is that true?  This is uh, this is only a meme for people who watched previous episodes I mean, I guess all of these are this one's a wonderful comic Super chat my friends You are democratic.  They did that is camon straight. They did all right There's a lot of sausage doom shit to get through doom sausage Yeah, for people in chat we're just like I gotta wear these things Let's go with it All right, yeah, so this is like a three page thing so you got on for fit girls Um So this is the first comic got the the space count reading the newspaper. Oh god Uh, someone gives it gives it a little tug I don't know. Oh, it's a salt It's a salt. Look who it is That's good, that's very good. Beautiful. I like that very good. I like this one a lot wolf will like this What's the newspaper? Oh, no, I thought um black lines are there on the newspaper So this one's a whole set of drawings this guy did of basically like enemies of efap types This is the baron of pave The baron of paves is christ. It's like a weird rhino with a ton of tits Clearly taking inspiration from bao when I see this is the australian dragon snake Actually Yeah, terrifying terrifying.  Good lord. It's actually terrifying Oh, they look like the uh, the water hags from the witch. Yeah, they do kind of yeah Um, and we've got the evolved critic Where is your formal education He's got theme knives.  You can't make up And then you've got major lee's women I'm guessing what is the weapon there? It's like a it's the dye that that he was trying to defend made sense the loot gave to lair, I guess a dye with a dye and What's the bladed?  I see It's got a soy injection the two of them Mpc face got a check mark and the reader response theory. What is the the language coming out of the book there? I'm not even sure Wonderful depictions though. You don't see realistic drawings like this every day the kanto bite alien Um Rags a light this one Yeah Um, I have a shield proof sword. I have a sword proof shield I like that the world is flat original subjectivity slayer One in wales 10 56 ad given the mask by the dawn After proving to be a skilled warrior during a pafe invasion Single-handedly beat goliath in a fist fight and trapped him in the philippines Would go on to pass down the mask as a family heirloom for generations. So the subjectivity slayer would always exist Seems fair. Oh my that's some makes sense to me Interesting to picture the ball of mask Then I kind of this is the same dude or not This is the thing. It's really hard to keep track of exactly who and where all these come from This like trying to keep control of all like this Oh, Jesus Christ. That's an original joint, isn't it? Right? That's not something else. I'm pretty sure If it's not, yeah, I was gonna say impressive. If so, I don't know if it's taken from somewhere else though. I never know for sure Got this one again different styles Oh god, I don't know what it is. Theo. Can you translate that? That's a jojo reference How am I supposed to know? Jojo's bizarre adventure Motherfucker. Is that a jojo reference? Yeah, that's a jojo reference. This one's terrifying I've had terrifying ones before though Is a youtube video? Oh my god, it's pafe episode 42 and apparently it's only four minutes long They don't do long episodes, I guess. Um, there's a lot happening here They're the least proud unless this is live Maybe a live show and we got to 401 Awkwardly lord. Yeah, there's there's a lot of stuff going on here rags for life on the tattoo doxels to tattoo I don't even know where to begin looking at all this.   He's gone through a lot Suffering in ways. He can't comprehend. I don't know if you saw this one last time. Well, whether or not you did See it now. Oh, Jesus. No, I have not seen this one.  Stop it. Get help. It's not me.  We will harvest the ivory I've never seen insert movie here Oh, I can't sleep. Jay. I've never seen this Jay is a rider with this constitution. Why are you holding the severed head of er? And I've got psc such in the other hand too Oh, I think they're I think it's the end of the chairs Oh, it could be the arms of the chair. Yeah. Oh wolf. You're a badge in this Oh, I'm fine with that Frog old is just like ribbiting atop the chair Spider says they plot against you They plan to break the barriers of blockage and steal the milk of the rhino beware the loke who pretends to no tones You must deal with them now Plus they're weak. Oh and spider-man is coming out It's good that they wore about that You go rags in his rhino milk. It's a very sweet picture. You know these things are very sweet Is that a wheel at the chair? Is that a wheelchair? I think Yeah, there's wheels Mount the world I think jay made a mistake by not uh I like that I go from like a horribly obese gluttonous monster to a werewolf And you don't know which one it is I don't like the the rags about it. Just no matter what the scenarios are. You always just seems to be so, you know Who little loof no matter what's going on. He's got it. Just a regular old shide Uh, this is where I am He's just happy to be here Let me say who uh, do we have a name for who did this? So I Again, uh, trying to collect them a little quickly on twitter. I always like Person who made this Uh, I guess you don't you guys don't have a twitter. Um, there's a little artist tag right down there I don't know if that's their name that y 119 We kind of like, you know They're awesome images. They're all archived in obviously the uh, the discord is just that Yeah, I just saved this one here. I really like this one Um, and we've got This is the first one Huh pretty neat. Is that like a 3d? I believe so. Yes Then I guess Wolf's not a werewolf in this costume Like the hounds helmet Well, it looks like I'm still autistically screeching. Oh, I'm on garyl. Oh, no, I it's a wolf head on garyl Yeah Nice the second so I just remembered the sword because that's the one I use on my character I think it's just garyl wearing a wolf helmet And you can kind of you can kind of see his face in there Well disguised by the lighting though Indeed And that is it for images. There's a lot of videos We're gonna test out one and if I've got to some internet stuff and we have to reset it And if I can't solve this problem, I'm gonna be very upset with life in general Oh, okay Everyone's in the wash to get To the team for just two videos have copyright on them for the the meet the ones I have no idea. I don't know either. There's so many of them No clue Yeah, I was just about to think like people are re-uploading them. They probably would knock them down. I don't know Their ads they get pre-posted so much. Okay chat seems to think they'd be fine Oh, I guess rags is dead. There's actually a part two to this that uh continues the story.  I can't look at Quentin without seeing that hideous Yeah, FYI it's all crazy. You need to be using the other Quinton image more now. That's how we see him. Okay It's important to the continuity. Just show like the ugliest version of him. You can Hey, I'm not the woman. Hey, who's wolf?  What does that imply?  We shouldn't trust j It's confirmed You should be the heavy because it's the most rhino like that's racist John saves everyone this is essentially All right His metal has something against the captain marvel pass. Yeah, it's all stepped right on her face That's a sexism After this don went to win Went on to win the war against tebots We now pray for his safeness as we take care of the orphans he used to care about after before losing his bike Don lives matter Made during e-fap 41. All right Um, so this one is pretty funny Because at first I I think I just told what are you guys about this one? I was like by the title is called he said the word And he said the word To do with shad I was like I love this one And that was in 2007 and so I decided I wanted to be I'm gonna have to pause this because of obviously Thank you. The problem is I wasn't any good at it. So I needed to learn how to do it From that point took nine years to learn how to do it right and I I wrote the equivalent of about nine novels And uh, most of them weren't any good except this last one Was actually wasn't bad.  I feel bad, but I just I know that if I don't do this You're not going to be able to see this in front of the few days of copyright claims. So I got a plus But still it wasn't the one to release I had to realize It's gonna get to a point as along the process trying to get better when I looked on that they weren't good enough thing is Getting the ability to be out of judge objectively if what I have is good enough It's been a very difficult thing for me over the years, but I have been able to do it That's why I have seven or so completed novels that aren't published because I'm able to look back on the say Everyone's just holding his book It's so worth it for a fail I The echo they gave everybody said objectively as well Patron sense of objectivity That's really really good I think all of us are gonna love this one I Believe this was available like right at the end of the the last e-fab just didn't make it into the rotation Why are you beating up ryan johnson?  He's just running off to find something the birth of tonald Oh boy Very important law right there the kazmik chicken This is crazy Like this is like it's actually perfectly slotted into it. Yeah, that looks really good. Oh god Probably gonna have to pause on this Gotta be careful deepest means cosmic chicken. Yep As long as everyone's following So I wonder if you can tell what's coming Oh Is the music for this public domain I didn't know that This is from the movie so the footage might get copyrighted.  Yeah, like you should not understand this but A lot of people in this chat do Someone in the chat said this is unironically my first episode of e-fab well This is me welcome friend. Apologize Just another nine days to understand all Yeah, there you go. This explains it for people who are confused praise be toned loke and is discipled the dawn So say it's the cosmic chicken Like hopefully that clears it up very simple Do you think the dawn is jesus in this timeline? Um, yeah, I don't know. I don't know if you'd sell the dawn short like that So this one me and rags will get select people in the audience will get I'm not sure about theo wolf will don't know. Well, this is probably you'll probably find it funny anyway All right I like the text box. I've actually seen this whole movie. It's Age 35 left everything he owed to his town's local orphanage carol danvers is now serving Oh recruit for pimps That's such a great one Oh, I love it. This is called blood debts everybody It's this is unironically how the movie ends There was a um, there was a red letter media best of the worst on it if you want to catch that Yeah, go watch that and I'll make that even funnier to be honest. Oh man This one's called uh All right, what's it called jack saint is having a rage that's what this I'm more Georgia I Said I guess we have to read this out in case people listen, but uh You said this is jojo. Did you?  So just enjoy the meme I Can imagine a bit of closet at home And Lagging on my end god damn it. We're like halfway through Really made it. Okay. I want to I want to quickly do a reset Hopefully it fixes it and then try and get through the rest of them before whatever's going on Doesn't happen worse that totally makes sense Okay Well, I'll be here if you need me with my strength keys to my beer I see the saying rip stream. Hopefully it's already back Stream massive so many f's in stream. Oh my Let me refresh this the end of evap Potentially Uh, the stream is not going back. Damn It's back Damn, they said we back we back in business It came back, but then it died again.  No we live I was gonna say die if you live again It's not living for me. It is risen looks like it's dead Mixed messages. Yeah, it's still dead for me You did I mean you guys can hear me, right? Yes. Yeah Yeah, still sub-slice stream offline Which I can do about that. It's still streaming. You know what I mean? Like This wouldn't happen if you just lived in America true don't invite me over Yes, come over to my place I don't mind do that. I'm assuming at this point since it's been down for this long. It's gonna be uh, it's gonna split itself into two Yay Do-do-do-do. Oh people in chat were saying that there's two links to my channel in the description But there's not though I've checked them yours is rags ends with two gw yours ends with n q w. I don't know if they just All them is the same And I checked them unless it just didn't update ever that could be it Maybe Just heard rags belch. So we're live. Did you belch recently other people? I don't know people are saying offline I think we're back. I can see it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're back. We're back We're back Back and better than back in the e-fap crew back I don't know what he's talking about when you say that Still not reassuring cheese is almost done and my beer is open Echo back Yeah, I seemingly still have like no control of a wash together No That was the part that was the payoff Jack be like Freaking out at the idea of an objective opinion.  Yes, like the fruit I came in a pair once Spider-man coming is a good movie Hey, this is what we're dealing with guys. I say it's a good movie. Everyone laughs He's okay, um apparently you've completely oversimplified the mj argument I don't remember doing that, but okay zen dia's character is a completely different person from other adaptations To the point where I question why she's called mj. Don't care. Don't care about other adaptation I don't care about other adaptations. I don't care about the comics.  I don't think that's how that works and I agree that makes absolutely no sense So the reason why that's different is we would be like why the hell would his parents have named him joseph stalin If he's an american that's a really fucked up thing to do While with mj. There's no reference to anything but meta information Not the same whatsoever. You're calling on upon a different continuity to say it's bad. That's not even yeah You're referring to out of universe stuff out of universe information is completely different than in universe stuff And she's not mary jane. She's michelle So you can't even argue that argument that doesn't work And uh, it's almost as if the writers don't know what they want this character to be Uh, I mean she seems pretty consistent Exact argument tlj defender is made about luke No, how how How tlj isn't a remake or a reboot or a sequel. It's a sequel. That's completely false Yeah, not the same thing guys. Come on people. We expect better from you Anyway, it's it's all it's almost as if the writers don't know what they want this character to be As there were leaks before the movie that she was going to be vulture's daughter I don't okay. I didn't see the leaks I don't know if this character isn't an objective flaw with the film Then why name her with a name associated with a completely different person How do those two things follow from the floor? Yeah, how does the how does that follow? Yeah, how uh How's it a floor if it's named after someone is not kind of maybe She has the name of someone else in any different Oh, you do have two links to my channel. No, she has the initial. This is the second link under the first link of somebody else Oh, okay But rags is still rags. This link is still there though Hell, yeah, I know, but there's just two links for mine. Well, that just proves how much I love you Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Yeah, uh interesting argument Try again. Is that even an argument? Stop with the adaptation arguments and then I guess there was there was a meme made in reverse To to supply at least if you're going to make the adaptation arguments be consistent about it Ryan styles So this is the average argument for why homecoming is a bad movie. It looks like an rpg But it's not Yeah I mean I could I could understand that Um, then e-man gameplay wanted to make us a rendition of the um, not so great debate in the form of civil war very quickly Oh boy Again, I'm saying she gave it just before me.  All right. Oh the problem was that isn't that it's an adaptation It's that it's pandering To who? pandering It's pandering People really don't like this because of just mj is what I'm is what I'm soaking up the most commonly referenced issue with the film shad said it was his number one issue with the film People really like mary jane being the you know the redheaded this isn't mary jane She's barely there She like seriously the pe teacher has more lines than she does But see so people saying why call her mj. What does it matter what the answer to that question is anyway? I'm confused What whatever the answer to that question is does not affect the storytelling in the film Like some of the writers not the writing.  I thought she was uh, I thought she was funny Yeah, I didn't like her but she was such a small part of the movie. I didn't really care I actually kind of forgot what she did in the film You guys should watch high top films arguments that yeah, we're gonna get this gonna happen Because clearly everyone's very upset about homecoming. So I I guess maybe Maybe there'll be some good arguments for why the film is bad because there's none here in this chat Speaking of good arguments this video is a good video Okay story in Godzilla that's like looking for a story in porn or football Oh god I can't believe this became a beam Everything that wasn't monster fights was retarded And crags, did you know that that means it's a good Godzilla film? We would pay for this fully fledged like well produced I actually would The problem by the way is this wouldn't even be discussed if not for back that we seem to have found some weird impasse with the A lot of people about this because I don't really care about Godzilla I would actually fund this.  I'm already I can people are telling me about like The symbolism it's a kind of care about the symbolism of a lizard baby. I'll say it anyway I think overfield is better than any of the Godzilla movies I've seen. What's the symbolism of this? Godzilla jumping up and down and doing jumping jacks. It's his It's a it's a mating call. Maybe Don't know appreciate it. I wouldn't expect much more Godzilla talk Is this confirmation we're getting a beef at movie? Fine I'll do it myself I love peace and prosperity formerly the Wow, he did a back one. Yeah, that's a back one for us Amazing wow Oh very impressive Oh He's even he's even shaded like he's color coded them so they look like they're in the same place. It's great That's so amazing So many faces, dude Oh my goodness He's here Oh god editing man.  I love it. Wow Like unironically look all the lighting it's like man This is better than it has any right to be Hey, don't you disrespect He's blocked out by the glass It's weird how much um He's he's made it match the Muto's face as well. It's like actually pretty awesome Like it's not just, you know paste it on Too much effort went into this You can never be too much effort for Goliath. He's a he's the pinnacle pillar of the efab law It's actually the best possible face they could have ever put on there. Yeah Perfect He he changed the audio of the You got Goliath saga sequels officially in the works using footage from Godzilla movies now accepting submissions for Goliath fan art and Animations to paste over iconic shots of Godzilla send them to at meme reposts on twitter There you go. We'll get a whole series of movies Also accepting fan art of the efab crew in military gear or other Goliath battling garb as well as efab foes and memes Reimagined as iconic kaiju multiple angles of people's heads would be nice. He's going full on with this That's really incredible.  I swear It'll be an odd bumper sticker, but I'll take it I love it Curious if there's anything in the last five seconds. Don't look like it Now where are we? Oh, yes Please don't let her do this We have to watch this from all the ones to appreciate what this big dud here so happy in dawn we trust so You didn't realize how good the dawn was until we watched this Yeah, so like he's got super smash brothers being like the Obviously the vehicle for this show, but he got like blacked out visions of all of us. I'm guessing from left to right Uh, you can tell who wolf is and ran rags and robot head. Who's the one on the furthest right? Shad shad. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and then I would be left of wolf and then his left of me would be The Fringy fringy. Yeah, that would make sense. Well before he was bird man Look before he was frog old croak Oh, no, please don't let us see a wolf and rags hug The Avengers music don't save Thanos from captain Yes daddy Let's consider the win for e-fab is In dawn we trust He even as we talk our little icons bounce a bit. Yeah, that's honestly that is so good I love it e-fab meme avengers endgame alternate scene.  I think I don't know if this is his first one or not. Yeah, actually This is what I do This is perfect. Oh god. He's even using the back of molly's head. Oh god Hello all my n words slice the dice. Sorry sir. It's thematically suitable that we would free the rhinos Oh Like I don't want to take ages to attach all these faces like and move them all around Pain of the ass.  Oh god. It's the dawn The dawn Do you like that brown table will be permanently memed in in our like content it's just being the guy who says everything is sexual And the Avengers music Oh And so the massives died the big day including This story is 100 the canon lore of ef-36 I'm sorry jay. He didn't make it. So someone's asking where the dawn means I I think it started when I was on vacation wasn't legal legal. No. Yeah. No. Yeah, it was it was uh Legal it was before that the one before that I think Yeah, it was the one with robot head because I wasn't there for that one He was definitely the robot had one. That's where it dies And it was one of our fastest growing memes read up on your lore rag is come on No, I like I remember it. I don't know what number I love the dawn memes. I'm messing wait. Wait. Let's check out our pokemon. Come on. I'll take you on Oh, that's goliath Goliath's attack fell It's Get him to make snacks he won. Yay Long when defeated a massive Here's the thing.     This is a thing that exists It's a beef up. You guys remember. Oh god. Is this another 3d one? Most relevant games that stand up today are the ones that gel without current gameplay trends Total I gc We need to appreciate this No God we need to rewind that a few seconds Oh my gosh Oh my goodness Did it play with you guys? Yeah, damn it. I'm getting locked out Uh Uh, hold on. I'll rewind it a bit. We'll see. Oh my god. Okay. Is it playing for you? no and assuming yep 46 Oh, okay Can't do this. No. Yeah, that's working. Three 52 Play No What?  No Look at the art on the wall. We may have to rewind it and look and see what's on the wall You know what? Hang on if it's buffering me a bit if one of you guys just pulls for yourselves I'm gonna reset to make sure because I don't actually want to not see this perfectly All right So what's going on today, but I will go reset one second. I shall rewind it to 40 seconds and we can start from there Hmm In the meantime, I'm gonna go like this video I'm back I'll see if the stream comes back up Got plenty of f's It's a stream resume demand Yeah, it's back I see it Plain. Yes. Is it playing for everybody? Yep. Yep. Yep.  I can't do this. No. No What? Uh, look It's been a while Rags rags is a retard Are we good to go? No Just tell him what he needs to do We watched it, but do you think tonal does an orphan? Really wolf look I'm not a very responsible person I look a strong I I gotta be honest.   I guess so Hello there, everyone So, um, you can hate Trump? Yep, wolf.   I You might have said two months. It's It's like the it's like the pilot for the tv show of e-fap. Why was I raping bill? You don't know that that's what was happening He was screaming you Alexa just because someone's screaming doesn't mean raped And now that'll be in the next episode of e-fap Oh god High quality beeps. Yeah, it's just that was really high quality. What else can you say christ? And that actually does it for all the memes that's that's the entire collection Um, but I realize the twitter's gonna have like a million more now because I haven't checked it yet So I'll just grab them up to make sure that everyone sees them in the meantime Guys talk about something well I was um, I was uh I was laying down As one does Uh getting a little getting a little horizontal, you know Yeah, just uh lounging reclining And I got kind of tired and I fell asleep. Damn And then when I woke up Everything was different. It was later And there was light outside And it was time for e-fap When you when I when I woke up I asked you when was e-fap and you said it was an hour, but then you said, oh, no, it's not an hour Well, so you wouldn't need to ask me if you remembered when I had said previously No, would you I was ready for it? I was ready though. You were and that was a that was a high five moment That no one could take away from you I was pre-paired to pair but before you know, you went prepared for These amazing means becoming a nazi Oh, yeah, I was lying in bed and then suddenly I went nazi So sorry about the dreams. I didn't intend to make anyone a nazi in the stream, but apparently I mean Too much everyone is Rags 2019. I don't care about source material. Yeah, that's definitely what I said That's a good that's a good interpretation of anything that I've said. Absolutely. That's very charitable. That's uh That's interesting Well, I believe you did say those specific words just with other words around them at different times that didn't sound like They probably won't there's words. You know what I mean? People are saying the episode nine question Hasn't Theo already answered that? Theo have you answered the episode nine question? I don't think I've answered the episode nine question. Would you like you're the first person I don't have to explain it to You can just answer it Kylo no Palpatine no Wait, what was it about Finn? What is your reasoning for Finn?  Theo doesn't trust black people Very true also, but more importantly, they have no idea what they want Finn to be and they want him to do Oh, I thought you were just gonna end it with I they have no idea what they want I mean, what? They want to make money Yeah, the guy said uh, it did take two two months to make that meme I hope our reaction to it was what you were hoping for Um, all right, we have some new memes everyone excited Oh Let's do it. There's some of them. Nazi related. I don't know why It sounds pretty reasonable Nazi you're good I definitely not a weird rabbit I look like an alien. I don't care with this I'm like a happy alien though. I like that I got Hitler's comb over too You got a swastika belt Um, then this one I guess was just they were watching my captain ball video. They put Plank's face on Plank I'm the best Tell Johnny Is they part one part two?  Oh normal man. You can't even read because you're too high Yeah, this is 100 accurate wolf. Why are you so high? I have to be Why why do you have to be those pictures? I'm not that effective guys I didn't ask for this The robots adam jensen I didn't ask to be a Nazi cyborg. He's like the floaty dude. This is bad He's smiling as well. That's an android saluting around This is this stuff to decipher here Got timmy up there after one month of e-fapping And so like many others before him little timmy was caught in the vile web of hate Mongery and the verbal terrorism brought only by the toxic brood Clearly he was not as smart as he think he do bill this Bill bill basis billy billyus the fable of the massive the fable of a bad Beautiful story really Bring today things written on the arms You see that tlj sucks massive mean word Season eight of game of thrones is great. Oh god So dear well As you have to face these masses head on that's spooky Wallace you got this version of it too Oh Like that in both renditions it was ER Yeah, hollywood superstar the dawn has secretly been financing countless children's house Some of these I just collected up. I mean they were sad because I was having sex with men I would say loving the sequels is the case I Like these are just your standard memes that i'm okay with them Man, these are great star wars fans believe that disney saved the star wars the star wars the stars He don't even need an answer.  This is clearly the cosmic chicken The cosmic alive Yeah, you got oh my god. This is the origin story for the universe. You got er's face down there in the bottom left majorly Major Lea spider. What's the one other than those three? The third one I think that's daddled holding the cosmic egg that tonald is in and goliath is down at the bottom Oh, the third one has the third one has milk under it on this picture. That must be j Because yeah, that's why you get to look at women. That's why the female symbol below major lea People are asking in the chat where the cosmic chicken even come from The cosmic chicken always was yeah I think it means more of like where the stream It's a secret stream. They have to ask each other as a fan base to find the secret stream That street was so at least until you super caught it. Yes, which is actually happening under that stream. It was so great It could be a billion years Good evening, uncle bilbo. Yeah, wait, do you see the do you see the book names? Uh, it's too small. Hold on. I gotta open the link Uh, I like that Peter stellar marines your desent game of Ring game of the game of the rings a game of the rings and I don't know what the Better response theory as well Uh, good evening, uh, frodo What are you working on something I dreamt about last night? It's an epic tale full of analysis spiders and milk that shall be even greater than my journey years ago What's it called? I call it efat. What do you think frodo?   Yeah, I gotta Jump out of here. I might be back before we're done though. So I guess now shatman has to come in here I don't Have any issue with not being on the same stream as shatman. So He's a shatman Um People were unironically asking in the chat what my problem with shatman is and it's like it's a Serious question or what is your what is your problem wolf jesus?  So That's terrible Yeah, that is like the worst thing you could ever do No, you could kill juse That's less significant You guys, uh, you guys weigh things up on a ladder in an interesting way Yeah, I guess so Anyone anyone anyway, I may or may not be back. So Ever cheerio Ever yes ever ever Well, no All right, do you not fear bao when the chances of me being back are more than likely than Unlikely more more than likely than than like unlikely. Yes there So you're saying there's if we were gambling Peoples We should gamble that you will return at some later time. Yes. What if you arrive at an earlier date? Uh, that happens then Wolf you better be back. I'm making a meme. Okay I feel bad for bao in the past like 20 memes. He's made.  I'm gonna have a salad after this The the most unhealthy thing I had today is probably gonna be that a little little cheese stringy cheese thing How do you feel about that wolf? Yeah, well, I feel like I should leave so bye Oh, just okay. Well, there he goes So the original I guess he just set up for this stream was gonna be doing the whole just right thing But since we're at three and a half hours already and I haven't even started super chats I figure That we should probably postpone it To the man Which I don't even get to ramble about philosophy Well, I mean, I was gonna say we'll we'll have to we'll have to have you back So that was the whole reason you were here I just never thought that we would last two and a half hours on fucking extra credits is autism minute video Uh, nor did I expect an hour on memes that that is true Because it's a good chance. This will take me another two hours Right And and and at that point, um, yeah, it's just gonna get A bit ridiculously dankulous, uh, we're donkles See, I'm looking at and everyone I know everyone's gonna be like, why can't you do another seven to nine hour stream? It's like guys Yeah, just do another seven to nine hour stream. Just like that. Just do it The stuff takes energy I'm just gonna continue. All right, here we go. Um The first one the super chats Oh, okay. Oh, we're doing super chats. Oh, yeah, we'll be here a while. The first one says at the Atlanta United Games So I'll watch this later. Like, all right. I hope your team won I don't know America. Yes I think it's gonna be a good one. I think it's gonna be a good one. I think it's gonna be a good one I think it's gonna be a good one. I think it's gonna be a good one I don't know America. Yes. I agree. I hope America wins Like we did in the revolutionary war like we did against the nazis Which are bad by the way press s to sue mola for false advertising. That's actually fair Gotta gotta clarify. Don't worry. Just right. We'll have his tizms. I mean his time Also speaking of tizms. James Moore said mola. What does tizm mean asking for my best friend? Can you believe that James Moore is asking what tizm means? I think that oh, by the way, James Moore sent me money For the switch So I have to find myself a good switch bundle or switch and then I then I will have a switch So everyone James Moore got me a switch. That means he's done it He's achieved all three members the original hosts of efap have been Switchified Yeah, he's pray pray very kind man James Yeah, you will have to like I said the plan is to possibly set up doing some form of a Thing with that in the future. Maybe sort of like smash brothers Mario Kart on something else. Maybe an all-in-one efap gaming is no limit Pen 15 I think that was supposed to be a different thing, but I read it as it is pen Well, what you do is you write pen 15 on your hand to show that you have been inducted into the pen 15 club I disagree with that the video is only five minutes. I'm guessing four hours. No Look, it's two and a half. I believe Then we got sidetracked with like Just just the best me. I at this point Like you could make a compilation of all the best memes and show somebody Imagine it just imagine that experience getting like highlights of all of the memes put together of efap I'm showing someone who has no idea no context Huh That'll be a trip of sorts the most absurd like first experience for a person I don't think they believe you would they they'd be like this is nonsense Like you made this up. This isn't real Um, hello Theo who was on efap That's that's a that's a doubled up accolade now Who was twice on efap No, that's my one claim to fame too now, I guess Woot finally got on here on time lol also wolf. What's your thoughts on the animated lord rings and hobbit movies also high rags Hi, hello Keep a hold of that in case wolf gets back in time Uh Finally caught efap knew you cover this. I mean it was a nightmare, uh, but hopefully it was everything everybody was hoping for And more We did it. We talked about we talked about nazi. We did normalize them.  No, we're not supposed to do that Uh, who would win a fight ray or captain marvel? I think we covered this before I don't know. I think it caused some sort of a weird si