Very warm welcome to all of you, my name is Joyce O'Connor and I chair the digital group here at the IIEA. I hope you are all keeping well and staying safe. I'm delighted to welcome our keynote speaker, Mr Bobby Healy, founder and CEO of Mano Aero, who will talk to us on drone technology, social opportunities and regulatory challenges. You're very welcome, Bobby, and we appreciate you taking the time out to be with us today because I know you've got a very busy schedule, so thank you very much for that. Bobby will speak to us for about 25 minutes or so, and then I will go to your audience for our questions. Please join in our discussion using the Q&A function at the bottom of your screen. You can send us in your questions during Bobby's presentation, and I'd really appreciate if you give your name and affiliation when you ask a question. Thank you very much for that. Please join us also on Twitter at Twitter handle IIEA. Bobby's presentation and the Q&A is on the record, which is our normal practice. We've all seen during the COVID-19 pandemic how technology is impacting our lives on a daily basis. Technology can and has helped us redefine problems, create solutions and help us reinvent the future. Governments worldwide including European and our own government are looking to the future after COVID-19 to secure economic recovery, embracing two key agendas, the green agenda and the digital agenda. Today we are talking about drone technologies. Drone technology offers huge potential for developing innovative applications in a wide variety of sectors that benefit Irish, European and indeed all societies around the world and will help create new businesses and jobs. Within 20 years, the European Commission says the European Union, a drone sector is expected to directly employ more than 100,000 people per year and have an economic impact exceeding 10 billion euros per year, mainly in services. Bobby Healy may query that assessment. Bobby has already started on his journey of developing his business Mano Aero. He will talk to us about his vision, showing us how he is making it a reality and how it can work and he will discuss with us the opportunities and challenges of drone technology and will explore some of the social implications and potential social benefits. Drone technology has the capacity to change the dynamic and local economies and particularly in rural areas as well as in suburbs. Bobby will explore examples from his work. He will also set out some of the regulatory implications and regulatory challenges associated with drone technology and the emerging EU policies in this area. As civil aviation evolves towards more automation, drone technology will also be crucial to the competitiveness of the European aeronautics industry as a whole. Bobby Healy has an impressive record as a technology entrepreneur, an experienced inventor, investor. He originally worked in games development, working for emerald software and also developed games from Nintendo. He was the founder and chief technology officer of the land technologies at travel software technology group. He was previously the director and chief technology officer of car trawler, the largest travel technology platform for business to business car rental and transport solution. As I said, he's the co he's the founder and CEO of Manoeiro, which he started in 2018, and was the first Irish company to apply to the Irish Aviation Authority for a drone operator license and approval. He has an impressive set of investors. One of his backers are the Colson Brothers Patrick and John from Limerick. And together with the Colson Brothers, Bobby is one of the companies supporting the development of the new innovative computer science program in UL. Bobby is also active as a mentor to startups, including startups in the NDRC, the National Digital Research Center, Dogpatch and other groups. Bobby, we look forward to your presentation. Thanks very much Joyce. I must get you to write my LinkedIn profile for me. Actually, there's very comprehensive description of certainly my background and thank you for that and thank you very much as well. And for the invitation to speak at the IEA. It's a real pleasure. And, you know, I'm always very excited about speaking about this business, but it tends to be to investors where I'm raising money, you know, or family that think I'm, you know, lunatic for starting this off. So, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to take you through a rather unstructured but hopefully interesting 20, 25 minutes of an explanation of what this is all about. And I really would be delighted to take any types of questions at all. There's, you know, we have our proponents and our detractors in this business. And for the early proponents and Morden, we did a survey recently in Galway where 98.5% of people said if they had drone delivery available, they would avail of the service. But there are, you know, a handful and I'll explain to you why we're doing what we're doing and the broad benefits to society at large and talk about technology as well a little bit. And as Joey said about the societal and the kind of regulatory parts to that.  And if I do this, that's what it looks like to scale. So it's slightly larger than a seagull, an average size seagull wingspan is just a little bit smaller than that aircraft. And that aircraft flies at 50 meters to 80 meters at about 60 to 80 kilometers per hour, and it can deliver cargo directly from a retailer, a small store, butchers, fishmongers, Tesco, you name it, directly to people's homes. And I'm going to show you video as well, as well as take you through kind of the adoption that we've had in Oranmore, which is our second town implemented in Ireland but but first from the top level. As Joyce explained, you know, some numbers around job creation, you know, actually I love that one pwc did report two years ago. That put the prize at about 600,000 new jobs in the UK market alone for a 1.9% incremental addition to GDP, just through enabling that 400 500 feet of airspace for drone usage. So drones across all categories of survey inspection all sorts of different uses for drones but not even thinking about what my company, mana plan to do and if you know your Catholicism you probably know where the word mana came from and if you don't you'll have to figure it out. So our basic you know this business I started because I'm a computer programmer that's my trade, you know, write video games, it's a hobby, and I love it, and I still love it. And, you know, I've always loved building companies and building technology projects. And when I saw the marriage, or shall I say when I saw the kind of the confluence of technology components like LiDAR solid state radar and batteries, battery chemistry, you know, look at electric cars, electric cars have driven this improvement of battery chemistry which has driven the amount of energy that you can get from a battery which in turn has allowed you to lift the 20 kilogram object for 20 minutes. And if you think about that as a raw technology capability, then, you know, and then with with with that as a tool and just like the caveman had fire. And in the 1990s we got the internet, they were just basic tools that enabled, you know, things to happen. But if you take that confluence of different technology components and you make a drone out of it. And then you look at a use cases for that particular technology, you look no further than online food delivery last mile delivery of online food of pharmacy critical food items. COVID test kits we're delivering at the moment, everything. So, you know, I thought that it would be worth exploring to build a business that would take this technology bring it to the production quality aircraft, and, and then answer the question of can you, in an economically efficient way, change the way society moves things around suburban and rural communities. So just to be clear, it's not valid for big large dense cities with tall buildings so in case you're wondering will we ever deliver to balconies. The answer is no, we will deliver to roofs. And so I think Mexico City 20 million people, everyone has a roof that they have access to for drying their clothes. That's perfect but New York City, San Francisco, no. And closer to home, Tala, of course, no problem. And pier street, not so easy. So the way we work is we fly. We arrive. To deliver we look for two meter diameter space on the ground, and we lower the product down to the ground. So, so the business, the marriage of technology, and particular domain is usually what it forms the, the genesis of a an entrepreneurial project. And, you know, I quickly spoke to the aviation regulator in Ireland to once I figured out that the technology component was viable, and that the unit economics were viable I could we deliver with a fully loaded cost less than what it would cost just a person in the car to do, which we were replacing. And when I asked those questions, I met with the aviation regulator here in Ireland, and I must say, and I'm very lucky to be saying this, we have, you know, here in Ireland and aviation regulator and the transport minister that really wants Ireland to be a world regulator on the drone delivery and drone use case stage so we, we had an open door with the regulator and if you're in the drone business if the regulator isn't, you know, forward looking and isn't willing to be a partner, you don't have wings, you're not going to be able to move forward. Nearly three years ago to the day when I'm able to regulate I was given a very clear signal that yes, this is something we expect to happen in the future. It's something that Europe has been planning for for quite some time in Europe has, you know, EASA, which is the Association of Safety Agencies across Europe of which the Irish Aviation Authority is a member. And it's very, very clear that not only is there a willingness there, but there's actually a willingness to win to the Europe will be the first to adopt drone technologies for all the benefits that they provide. And I found that I won't say as a surprise, but I was very happy to know that my didn't have to move my business to the United States or anywhere else for that matter to be able to grow it because quite frankly, you know, don't let my accent fool you. This business would be wherever we're allowed to proceed with pace. It's where we can get the best technology talent. That's one combined with where we can get the best support from government to actually get the job done. I regulator and transportation and in Ireland, particularly where we've gone first, we, you know, you may have seen in the news we did a project and money gall and combined with the HSE and the aviation regulator, and we launched a small project and money gall population of 700 or 800 people. And during lockdown to the cocooning houses we were actually delivering critical food supplies. And as a trial only as a trial but just to prove what we could do. And that was last March, March 20, just as lockdown had come in. And, you know, I think that in itself is amazing. There you have a gigantic organization like the HSE, pulling their shoulder behind something to test out, you know, if we can do better. And a very what I would call a traditional and conservative segment of government, which is the regulator that sole remit is to ensure the safety of people that are flying the air and people that are on the ground and manna a VC backed entrepreneurial, you know, bunch of, you know, well, just look, a mixture of oil and water to work very, very well. And, and from that, that went very well so we, we then went to Oranmore and Oranmore is a case study in, in doing this properly because Oranmore has about just short of 10,000 people in it, and about 20,000 homes. It has a large Tesco, it's a big suburb right on the estuary on the West Coast of Europe. And it's a difficult town to get right. But it's also, we're rolling in with a product that's essentially flying objects that are 20 kilos over people's in their airspace that's, that's where they live. And, and we're going in asking for permission to basically bring the future to this time. And, and, and to ask the town to be part of that future. And it's really interesting like we have such massive support from from the people in Oranmore, but it was done in cooperation.  So you'll see I'm just going to briefly show you what Oranmore looks like today. And this picture here is Oranmore on Google Maps. All those orange lines are real drone deliveries. And if I hover over some of them, that's Tesco Oranmore delivery. This one here is coffee, coffee from another coffee shop. This one here is more coffee down here, cameo type and so on. And I can hover over all of these lines and show you what people are ordering. But the point is, and this flight here is a six and a half, 6.7 kilometers away. And what's interesting about this is, and look, you see some, you know, for this is ice cream delivery. The point is 30% of the homes in Oranmore are now using this service and use it for the most normal things that you could possibly imagine. Now, I was sitting there a couple of months ago, and one of our investors was there with me on the roof of Tesco just, you know, check out the technology, and somebody ordered a head of broccoli. And, and that's a case where online, somebody ordered a head of broccoli from Tesco, and they received it in about four minutes, but point of it is the broccoli cost 60 or 70 cents. And they got it straight to their home exactly when they needed to have to be dinner time they obviously had no veg, you know, being Irish meat and three veg. They were down one. But think about that an online transaction for a product that is delivered to the house within minutes. That's an idea of the impact that we're going to have as we scale this business. And when you when you apply that to actual behavior, consumer behavior, more than half of our deliveries in Oranmore today are for coffee. They're for coffee in a croissant or a scone, the average basket value by drone delivery is twice that of a walk in customer for the coffee shop. And it's interesting because that's new business that didn't exist before. So that coffee shop had a certain amount of business and you know it's a it's a tough business but you know people make it work. But when you give that coffee shop three minute access every one of those flights I showed you by the way the median flight time is two minutes 40 seconds the maximum flight time is about three and a half minutes. And, but when you give a small vendor, three minute access to 50 square kilometers of customers that transforms that business that means that that business no matter via a fish monger, a bookstore, an electronic store we've got to deal with Samsung to deliver Samsung phones can be anyone. But the point is you can now get to everybody in a 50 square kilometer catchment area in three minutes and for free because we don't charge we charge a consumer delivery fee. So how does that change things. Well, you know, I have my own thoughts, and we're seeing a small version of it certainly in our more. But my view is that we're going to enable a totally new type of commerce we're going to transform existing small businesses to just get more demand from existing customers. We're going to change consumer behavior so consumers won't be getting in the car to get their camel tie they'll get it sent to them by a robot.  They won't need to make that journey. And the nature and behavior the granularity and the frequency of commerce in suburbs and rural communities will totally change. And that creates opportunities for existing businesses. So think again, that small coffee shop that coffee shop or the two that we deal with now or more will be closed. If they didn't have drone delivery totally blows it wouldn't be viable. Now when lockdown ends, what would it look like well, they might have a much smaller footprint for walking customers, and 10% of their business will be walking customers and 90% will be getting coffee in three minutes to the full population of three and a half or 3000 homes. So, so, so small businesses will change. And then look at the bookshop. I think we did the world's first ever delivery of the book. And, but champagne football if anyone knows the book and is available for purchase in the or more bookshop, and it was bought online and delivered by drone in a few minutes. And think about that. That bookshop has a better product than Amazon have for our more residents. So your local residents now sorry your local small businesses actually because of the logistics can now outperform the gigantic tech businesses that have distribution at their core and logistics at their core. So we're enabling jobs and suburban communities that wouldn't have existed before. We're also creating a better life for people that live in these towns so when we think about diversity or dispersity of population dispersely of jobs. We have underpinning, you know, government strategy of the national broadband plan which is absolutely fantastic on the big backer and broadband is great but you know that's broadband. You can get stuff. If it's not viable, you know, I always pick portumna as an example portumna as a population of about 2000 people. You know little restaurants and little shops pop up in portumna every year and they close down six months later. There's none of business it's too far for people to travel to. There's just none of demand. So those shops had instantaneous access to, again, 456 mile radius operation and they could get everyone in three minutes, those businesses would be viable, and that means that living in those towns is more viable so rural and suburban or distributed living becomes better on a par with dense suburb with the tallas and with the, you know, dream nas and so on of Dublin so so we're kind of equalizing the balance of access to commerce and access to small goods that didn't exist before. And on drones, you know, everyone has questions and I know all the questions, but the top questions are, and what about privacy, what about noise, what about jobs, what about safety, what about wildlife, and that's the order by the way of priority that they're passed in. Privacy is a really important one because we know that big tech have done a lot of damage to, well, they've done a lot of damage to confidence and to trust in the general population and the government on what and how far they're willing to go with customer data. So I think the drone delivery industry, us included, we won't, you know, we won't make that mistake, but we wouldn't be allowed to make that mistake. And so regulation already covers us. So we don't record anything. We have no customer information. If we're delivering to someone and or more, we don't know their email address, their name, their IP address, nothing. We record nothing, no video footage, no sound footage, absolutely nothing. And I believe in that. And I believe that that's critical to the adoption or the reception that we'll get when we roll out the product. Trust is everything. Noise is the other big one. So most people will have seen, or shall I say heard the consumer grade drone that you can buy, go out in the Harvey Norman spend five or six on a quid and get a drone that can do quite a lot. But they're very noisy. They're very angry things. They said they're cool technology. But if if you're lying in your backyard enjoying a very rare and beautiful Irish summer day reading, you know, your latest book. The last thing you want is a drone flying over your garden, not knowing what it's doing and making a lot of noise. So noise and privacy are massive issues that we have to address head on for this industry, which the regulator and legislation help with. And as it happens, our aircraft cannot be heard at its cruise altitude. So at 50 meters. And if we flew right over your head, you wouldn't hear us. And that's very, very important. And the other question, funnily enough, you know, before safety, the last actual thing general population worry about is safety. The other one is around job loss, they think, or they go to, you know, what, I don't want more robots taking more jobs. And what about that poor delivery cyclist for delivery that's working in Tallah, making a few quid, and so on. Yes, those gig economy jobs that involve, you know, young men and women on bicycles carrying hamburgers around will reduce or if not fully go away. And I believe that's a good thing that the number of accidents that happen on our roads and on international roads and carrying frivolous products around our enormous and it's not a good thing. It's a low paid gig economy job. And everything about it is not good for the person doing it except for the early wage. And our answer to that is the extra business and the extra commerce that proper logistics bring to the suburban town. And that will create more than enough jobs to replace those ones. So we think generally speaking, and all of the big consultants who would agree, enabling the drone airspace will be a massive incremental job creator. And so quite, quite confident about that. And then the last thing is business, you know, the business side of this, have a few more minutes and then I'll wrap up and take questions. I'm going to show you a video of the drone delivery as well. The business side of this is today, it costs operators aggregators, I think just eat Uber Eats delivery in Ireland. There's lots of others around the world, but the, the average cost of all of them is between $6 and $9. So five and eight euros cost to operate a delivery. So that's fully loaded cost of the guy or the girl on the bike, insurance, the bag, all those things. And it takes them a median time of 40 minutes to get the product from a restaurant to your house, which constraints demand, right? Because they so long, most people don't order that frequently. But in the end it cost them, let's take the average of six euros 50, it cost them for the delivery. But those aggregators have to buy customers online to through Google. So they have a customer acquisition cost digitally of bringing customers onto their platform. The restaurant has to pay for all of that. So the restaurant that has an average sale of 25 euros has to find 30 to 40% commission to pay to an aggregator to do the delivery for them. And that's the problem. This is today a $200 billion industry food delivery is $200 billion industry growing to 350 billion. Everyone is making money except the small guy. The restaurant that's, you know, making maybe 50 meals a day, maybe 100 meals a day if they're really lucky and barely breaks even, but now has to look at a 20 to 30 sometimes 40% commission to aggregators to do the to get the product to customers, right? But the problem is no one wins, right? Because those big aggregators are single digit margin businesses as well because their base cost is that $69. So nobody is happy with delivered food except the guy eating the chips. And that's what drones will fix. So what drones will do is it will completely remove that cost. Therefore, the margin of the base product, the food shop, the person making the scones person making the coffee, their margin improves their volume improves and the aggregators that bring those customers to them have zero cost of the logistics. We do all of that. So the world in terms of financial sense is a far more sensible world. And that's our mission. And in terms of timeline, if you're wondering when it's coming to your town next, and it'll be about 18 months before we plan to roll out across Ireland. We are, we are naming our next town, which is about 40,000 people in it. We'll name that town next month, probably the next three weeks. And that's all we'll do this year. We're getting ready to scale and we've applied for a European wide license already. We have a team in the United States with worldwide ambitions. We've raised just short of $10 million investment money to date and are about to announce next week, our series a round which is substantially larger amount than that. We have over 40 people in the company now just over 40 people, mostly engineers, like myself, and we'll probably grow another 200 or 300 people over the coming couple of years as we get ready for scale. And I think I've covered all points there Joyce. Now if you want to move to Q&A I'd be very happy to take people's questions. Thank you very much Bobby. An excellent presentation as we expected. Oh I didn't show a video. One minute, the most important, I'm sorry Joyce, let me just get this for you. So everyone knows what it is right. I won't talk during it, it's one minute 40 seconds long. And it's a delivery of a cameo tie to a family of four people and you'll see when you'll hear the kids outside the house, you know, all excited about it. You'll also notice that the kids are louder than the drone itself so here we go.


Hi, it's Bridget. Welcome to above life channel. Oh, wait, what am I talking about? It's Sunday morning coffee with Bridget. Oh my goodness you guys. I just did a channeling video. That's probably why I'm thinking about above life channel channeling. Okay, okay, okay. Sunday morning coffee podcast. Switch the channel. Okay, so today we're going to have a conversation about the topic of homecoming. Where I live in the Midwest, tis the season, the fall when all the kids go back to school in September and October. We have what's called homecoming where there's like this big celebration week and there's like a homecoming court. King and Queen are voted on and there's like royalty. There's a big homecoming football game. There's a parade, all that kind of stuff. So that's what's happening here. We're not really into it. My oldest is a senior, but he's not really into that. And my youngest is a seventh grader and thinks it's dumb. So dumb. Why are people dressing weird this week? There's themes and it's weird. So I thought let's do a conversation about that from a spiritual perspective or an energetic perspective homecoming. So big question for you. Now, I didn't mean to invoke memories from your past, but I may have done that. And if I have, if we've stirred that up, I'm just going to ask your healing team aligned with your highest good, the energy of God, Creator source universe and cosmic consciousness to enfold you, encompass you and support you through your own memories, through your own unfolding. If you have some memories that come up or some things that are triggered and they're maybe not so pleasant, be gentle with yourself. Just be soft and just let them be. Remember, the past is the past. It's not the present. And if it's triggering you, it's because there's a piece of that that might be showing up in your life today. That might be related to that. And you have an opportunity to clear it, to heal it, to pay attention to it and to make a different choice to be the change as they say. So moving on from that, the concept of homecoming when I felt into it from a spiritual perspective felt like, what is home to you? What is home? There is this song by the Christian rock group Mercy Me and it's called home. And it talks about being homesick and feeling this ache for heaven, for the afterlife, for spirit. And it's kind of, for me, it's from this perspective of having a loved one that has died and missing that connection to them and feeling homesick for heaven, because then you're with that person and feeling homesick for that person. So it might be about grief of it, the homecoming energy, but it might also be about this grief within your soul for what you're not living now. So homecoming, I want to, I want to talk to you about homecoming in regards to what are you missing now? What are you missing out on? What are you holding yourself away from? Are you really afraid of disappointment of not meeting someone else's expectations of beauty, of intelligence, of definition of whatever it may be that someone else is looking for? Are you afraid of that and is that why you're holding yourself back? Or is it this memory of the past of you when you were 18 that couldn't fulfill, couldn't make the honor roll or didn't get into the college of your choice or was dumped by that girlfriend, etc. or just didn't feel good enough? The energy of coming home or homecoming is about you being present for your life as your fullest self. So your spirit, your soul, living large. That doesn't mean bold and out there and in people's faces and finding the cure for cancer or marching for a cause. It means living fully, meaning allowing yourself to recognize what matters to you and what doesn't and knowing that you are not the same person you were when you were 18 years old and you are not the same person you were maybe even three years ago. We have been through a lot collectively in the last two years. 2020 was a big one for many of us and it forces a lifestyle change. It asks hard questions. Now your spirit is going to make you notice her. Your spirit is going to demand a place at the table because this is what you have asked for all along. And now is the time to listen, listen to yourself, go on an inner journey, focus on your intuition. That's why there's so much propaganda about self care and self love and kindness. Because the truth is everyone is trying to get you to focus on what really is going to help you, which is you helping you. You helping you how sweet and beautiful is that to know that you are absolutely everything. You are everything. You are the meaning of life for you, from your core. Make all of your decisions from here, from this point. Be gentle and kind with yourself if you are making changes in your life and you are trying to work through something, whether it be an addiction or a change in a relationship or something brand new, maybe you just started a new career. Maybe it's hard. Maybe it's really hard. Or maybe you're starting over again.  Maybe finances are tough right now. And guess what? You are here for you. You are what you need. You will be cared for and provided for. And the universe has an incredible amount of love for you. And it's never ending and it's not conditional. It's not circumstantial. It's not through someone else's eyes. You are worthy. You are perfect. You are incredibly capable of making choices and decisions. It's not a one-time thing. Flip a switch magically. Your life is totally different. You are growing and evolving and you're waking up one day and realizing you feel different. I know what that's like. I know what that's like. And trying to make sense of the world through new eyes or through a new perspective based upon whatever you've been through or what you've realized or come to know or discover about yourself or others around you. It's hard. I mean, it's not easy. But you are home within yourself. Your body and your soul together, united, that's what home is. Home is not a place. So when you're coming home, it means you're connecting to both sides of yourself.  Holy union, that's what it means. You and you together always. Nice breath in. Exhale, release with me. Did you need that little pep talk? Homecoming. They say that there's a common saying that says, home is where your heart is and it's true. It's where your heart and your soul are in union. It's like a marriage between your heart and your spirit. That's what it feels like, this beautiful commitment. Your soul adores your heart. It really adores your heart and it really appreciates your spirit, your intuition, really appreciates all that your heart does to support it, to support the efforts of convincing the mind that it's okay. Don't freak out. It's okay. We're going to do this. It's new. It's out of our comfort zone. Don't freak out. Don't freak out. We're stepping outside the yard. No invisible fencing to keep us in.  Oh my God. And your heart is like, it's okay, mind. We got it. We got it. It's okay. It's okay. It's going to be good. It's going to be fine. We're going to be all right. And the soul, your spirit, your intuition is going, okay, and take a step forward. That's simply it. That's how I envision the dialogue anyway. That's how I envision it. So to me, this energy of homecoming feels like a celebration of a union. It feels like a marriage is what it really feels like.   There's no judgment about it from your pure soul. There's no judgment whatsoever. None. None. You are held in love. You are always home in your heart. You are always home here. It kind of feels like a deep topic. I would suggest to do some journaling. So there's kind of two parts to this Sunday morning coffee. It feels like we first talked about homecoming and then some of the past stuff like high school and experiences you may have had in high school might not have been so great for you and you might have had suffered like a loss during that time. Like someone significant left your life, whether it be through death or through a breakup or moving away, et cetera. You might want to go back and if you were triggered by that in any way, honor the grief that you had about that experience or the grief that came up about that experience so you can clear that because it must be attached to something that is similar to what's up right now. There might be an undertone of grief or loss or a little bit of fear that's coming up for you. Maybe it's around anticipation of a decision. Maybe you're thinking about going back to college. Maybe you're thinking about buying a house or investing in a business, et cetera. And you might be uncertain about that and so there might be this fear of loss that's kind of clouding some of the judgment about that or the decision-making and it might actually be related to that thing from high school and I know that sounds maybe strange but it's really true all of our stuff like there's common themes. It plays out in different arenas or different parts of our lives but there are common themes, common threads. So when you heal one part, you heal another part. You really can expand the energy of understanding, of kindness, of self-compassion and of healing when you allow yourself to explore some of those areas and those things. I'm not suggesting you go dwell on the past. If there is something that came up for you related to these things, journal about it. Just journal. Let yourself have a conversation with the old you about it. You can do that. You can certainly do that.  That home is not a destination or a place or location. It's a feeling and the feeling comes from the energy of your spirit knowing that your pure essence and you're just light and you're just energy and that the closest thing to light and energy translated into human form is your heart and your feelings and your emotions. So it makes sense that the heart would partner with the soul to create this union and the expression of your experience for this lifetime. It totally makes sense. So you can go ahead and journal on those topics as well. All right. So this is Bridget. Thank you so much for listening to the Sunday Morning Coffee podcast called Home Common. And it just kind of makes me giggle a little bit because it is kind of nostalgic a little bit. But it also has a higher, there's definitely a higher consciousness piece that I'm very aware of in regards to this and I'm going to journal about this topic myself. I feel like I've just touched the tip of the iceberg here and so I'm curious about this. So I'm going to kind of follow where this may lead as well. So grabbing out that journal. Thank you so much for being here. I hope I've inspired your spirit and filled you with hope today and encouraged you to live your life. This is your life after all and you get to live it. Just live it. Thanks for being here. Make sure you like and subscribe to Above Life channel here on YouTube so you never miss an episode of Sunday Morning Coffee which comes out on Sundays our podcast here and on Mondays is when I share my weekly channeling videos.


you guys just don't seem to get this I'm not talking about the history of the organization the way they love the Browns I think that Dave Gellemann went out and tried to get the best deal possible and the icing on top of the Sunday or on top of the cake or the cherry on the Sunday was he got to send Odell Beckham Jr. to Cleveland Ohio. Then Gellemann is truly a moron because you sent him to the quarterback that was drafted first overall talking about the city is not what he's about Cleveland Ohio is not what Odell Beckham Jr. is about how do you guys not see that I see it but you know how hard you have any idea how hard Odell Beckham Jr. had to play football to make it to this level and you think the only thing he cares about is the club not that he's a quarterback who can throw the ball competently over 40 yards Eli has not been able to throw the ball to Odell for three years he cannot throw a deep ball Odell the fastest player on the field basically at any given moment he's playing you can run Odell down the field and he the ball Baker Mayfield could throw the ball 55 yards you don't think he's excited about that he only cares about if there's a club I didn't say that I said that it's probably a team that he sees the the the positives about but he didn't be spending his nights from Monday through Saturday when they plan a Sunday in Cleveland Ohio if you guys can't grasp that I can't make you grasp if they have a cheesecake factory he'll be fine he'll be fine I mean I just I'm not saying he won't be bored he might be bored guess what maybe that'll be great for it is a negative aspect to where you're playing no question but a chance to win a chance to play on national television I mean take a look at every NFL show all anybody's talking about of the Cleveland Browns because they haven't won in such a long time if this team is going to be competing for Super Bowls all right there's a negative that he's not going to be able to go to the bright lights of the big city on Tuesdays on his off day but you know what he's got an excellent chance to win and be part of something that would be pretty special I think that would outshine get to play with his favorite his best friend get a chance to play with a quarterback that's got a really bright future a fan base that's going to think that he's a he's a walking and living legend and the guy already things the fact that he's gonna have to hang out at a cheesecake factory on a Tuesday I don't have a cheesecake factory in downtown Cleveland but I will tell you this he was in a pretty good situation with the Giants to a fan base that adored him is that true now did the fan base adorn they called up and ripped him every week oh you know what Joe Girardi every week now and they want him back that that may be so and that's what makes fans here annoying but you can't tell me everyone loved Odell we get calls from hate go walk through met life stadium two years ago everybody's were in a 13 Jersey but you could also hear the the media getting on him and you don't think that there's we were getting fans now and tweets that are complete like support of the trade supporting Dave Gettleman even though he's been he's acted wacky over the last couple of weeks there you can't deny the fact that there was a certainly an older crowd that just did not buy into Odell but in Cleveland I think they're just gonna love everything that he does because they haven't had a lot of great players over the last 30 years in Cleveland so when he urinates in the end zone he's probably gonna get support from his fan base not get ripped by his fan base 25 saying that that's right I'm just saying that it's gonna be he's gonna get a lot more of a softer landing to the media and the fans if he drops passes he might get cheered off the field for the effort that doesn't happen in New York 25 minutes to Cheesecake Factory it's in Westlake right but it's not in Cleveland not in downtown Cleveland


Da da da. Bop bop bop bop. Bum bop bop bop bop. Bop bop bop bop bop.  There we go. I just had to play this again. I'm going to enforce everyone to watch it because it's real funny before I start it.  I was there. Were you there? I was there. I guess that's pretty straight.  Had to play it. Yeah, that's an F.E. Black Beauty with custom pickups and it sounds better. So, oh yeah, I need to bring a not so. Let's see. Sorry. What's up? What's up? What's up? Did you get to hear the, I just want to fit in song again? I did. I did. Yeah. I was one of the people you forced to watch it. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It's really good. Yeah.  I have. I have. I wish I had more hands. That's all. I mean it, you know. Make friends that way. Make better friends. Oh, dammit. Let's see. We're getting that. Trying to get my little skunky guy on. Oh, look at that. Yeah, there he goes. All right. Here we are. Here we are. Okay. Let's see. What are we going to start off with? What do we usually start off with? I mean, we usually start off maybe with like a general overview of like what we're actually going to chat about, I suppose. Okay. You know. So, we thought today we would talk about like different parts of growing and flower and like what it means for you. So we'll try to, there'll be times where maybe we'll get a little technical, but we'll try to make it topical and bring it back to stuff that, because there's a lot of different ways of growing. There's a lot of different ways of, you know, there's a lot of methods, right? And if there's anything in weed that leads people to religion, it's the way that I grow is the best way. And I have the best pot because of this method, right? And so it gets really hard to debate any part about it because there's so much, there's so much pride, I guess. Yeah. I mean, it's like art, you know. Always got ego with their art. And if someone tells you that, you know, it could be done a little bit better, it hurts. So, you know. So yeah, definitely.  The sense of depending on what your goals are, and we'll talk about, we'll break it down into chunks, whether you're breeding or whether you're growing for pure heads or whether you're trying to grow commercially on a bit larger of a scale, like there's different pros and cons to your approach. They're not all the same. So it's really hard to be like, oh, I just need to learn this one thing. And this method, if I perfect it, will consistently do the best for me no matter what I'm trying to do. Yeah. And that's just not the case. No. No. It's just really not the case. You know, and then maybe we could talk a little bit about like what those methods do to the flower. And some misnomers maybe about how everybody thinks that like nutrition is like the only thing really that messes with it, but there's temperature and there's spectrum and there's how you treat it afterwards and all that that kind of goes into it. Yeah. You know, you know, and so as a result of that, there's like, there's a lot of people trying a lot of good ways to grow cannabis that they're not putting all the pieces together. Yeah. You know, one of the most common questions I get in relation to nutrients and feed is when people email me about a specific strain, they'll ask like, Hey, how do I feed it? What's it like? And, and I try to explain to them the difference between like, you know, it depends. It all depends. I don't even know what expression, you know, you're going for, I don't know what expression the plant's going to give it the first place in your environment. So it's really hard to tell people how you're going to feed because it's not just strain dependent, it's, it's individual plant and individual rooms dependent. And I think it'd be a good way to illustrate it talking about it. It matters. It's like trying to be like, well, this, if you just do this, like you can pick up any woman you want. Yeah. You know, this, this, this dating method is just 100% effective. Yeah. And it doesn't take the other human being into account, you know, and I also thought like this is, this is a little esoteric, but there's like a, there's this really cool book by this, he writes the New York Times or whatever and his name is Michael Pallon and it's called The Botany of Desire. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great book and documentary.  So I thought maybe two, like we rarely talk about like what cannabis or hemp or whatever wants. Yeah. Like what it's trying to do and what it's going for. Because in order for us to get what we want, right, we have to play with what it's doing. Yeah. To convince it to give us what we're after. Yeah. What it wants isn't necessarily what our end product of smoking it is. No. And I mean, in some cases, you know, like, I mean, basically at its most basic level, the plant wants to mate, create seed, continue the progeny of itself. It has zero interest in creating good smoke for us. Yeah. That's not at all. Seedless is failure genetically to it. Yeah.  Yeah. And that's the superior method. And people aren't really interested in hearing different opinions about things too much. Yeah. You know, there's, yeah. So it's very like, it's very clickish. It is very clickish.  Yes. No bottles. No bottles.  Right. And so you hear all these, there's all these talks. I'm not going to sit here and say that I'm some, you know, there's other more intelligent people that can talk about like the pure nutrition aspect of it. I can give a general overview that will probably work, but mostly what we're talking about is like end results and how to manipulate your plants to get what you want. Yeah. Right. And there's different goals and it's not all the same. Yeah. So like, like I've talked about this a lot in the past, choosing for selection, a lot of when I choose a plant for selection or for keepers, I'm choosing a plant for keepers for breeding, you know, whereas someone, someone else's keeper may not be that because they're looking for an immediate production plant that has all the traits they want right there. I want something that's going to have the traits that it passes down as opposed to what it's showing up in itself, you know. Yeah. Neville and some of the old timers used to talk about that that sometimes the best breeders were not the plant that they would put into production from that same line. Oh yeah. Yeah. Very different things. There could be, there could be, they could be the same and they could also just end up being different. Yeah.  Yeah. Right? No. No, but you're not getting like, oh, that's the 98th male of this and this, you know. No. No, that doesn't, you're lucky if, you're lucky if like, you know, you get a female from that long ago. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't think I've ever heard of anybody keeping old males like that from the Dutch days. No. I mean, some of you, some of them do, but they're certainly never going to trade them for you. They view them as like the bedrock of their company. Oh, so much G13 Hayes male. That's one, that's one that did make it out now that I think about it. It's not out. I don't know if it's still around. Yeah. But yeah, rare. Yeah. Very rare. Rare. You know, now with, with STS and stuff like that, it's even become more rare because they've eliminated the male in a lot of cases. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe we could give it, we could start because it is a little rambly or whatever, but we could, we could start maybe with like, what's your goal? Like I was going to break it down basically into like three, like big chunks, right? There's like growing for you, which is basically trying to make it as heady as possible and usually relatively small scale. Then there's growing for seed. And then there's growing at a larger scale for production. And there's various, obvious, there's various grades and levels of that. And that's a lot of what people are faced with today in terms of like how, how do you scale up headies? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's been a major, major problem for people. Yeah.  My two greenhouses. Yeah. Well now I've got six, 10,000 square foot licenses and my weed's not as nice. Yeah. And I think a lot of people convinced themselves at the beginning of REC that they were totally going to be able to scale up.  Yeah.  Right. And the amount of liquid you're going to go through and the amount of this and the amount of that and the amount of labor it might entail. Yeah. Uh, you know, and so, and, and so all those things, all those things play into it. Right. So maybe we'll just start real general. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I'm going to go into real general and we'll talk about like the difference between like growing good weed and growing for seed. Okay. Right. Go for it.  So that means you're going to trick the plant into constantly going, waiting for pollen that never comes. Yes. Right. And so what you're trying to do is you're trying to give it, you know, enough nitrogen, enough veg or boost or whatever, and to get it to a certain size.  And so that requires a certain kind of nutrition, where if you're growing from seed, you're planning on pollinating it, and then since it's going to be making babies like seeds inside itself, you'll probably give it a lot more nitrogen and you'll give it a lot more of a mix that is very different than if you'd smoke it. I tend to feed heavy nitrogen during flower for seeds. I feed it like tomatoes. A very tomato regimen is great for seeds keeping them healthy and viable, but I flip out like if people feed since a miller like that because it just to me it just ruins it, you know, when you just flood it with nitrogen for the most part. I mean and so maybe there's an aspect that people should realize here so one of the interesting things is there's this I'll give a plug there's this company called Kana, okay, which is a Dutch company that designed nutrition for cannabis, right, and the reason why they're special is that for a super long time when people were developing nutrition, they couldn't test it on cannabis because it was illegal. Yeah, but Kana could. So Kana, you know, they they were able actually to grow different plants, you know, cannabis different ways and then test how the plant actually up took nutrient, right. So they had this method of like give it just enough and nothing more. Yeah, right, where like I would say American companies are more supersize me like we'll sell the customer way more than they need.   It's like go heavy, put a bunch in there, right. And so what happens with, you know, from a plant's perspective, right, you know, plants will sit there. And what they want to do is they have no idea that there's like humans taking care of them really, right. So they want to soak up as much food as they possibly can within themselves. So that when the food starts to run low, they have enough left inside themselves to like carry on the process of making seed. Yes. Right. So like back in the day, you see a lot of people that are like, Oh, I want to pack on weight on my flower, right. And they would like give boosters or something heavy at the end. Yeah. And then you just end up with unused nutrient in your stuff. And what cannot figure it out is that if you gave it at the at the like early mid part of flower, say like week three on a 10 week strain, right, then the plant would have the next month to use up that excess. Yeah. And grow all that flower and boost itself. And then it would still be running out, running low towards the end. Yeah.  No, in general. No, right. And so that's what happens sometimes when people like quote unquote, pump it, or they ride a high EC, or they have a lot of organic nutrition that's like their soils hot. The plant just soaks up a bunch. And it and it's got a bunch in there because it's trying to make sure when it runs out, it has enough to make seed. Yeah. It doesn't know you're going to make seedless. Yeah. So you have to like plan your nutrition around what you're trying to do. Yeah. If the plant, if the plant knew that it was going to be seedless, it just, it would probably not put so much energy into making the little hairs, you know. Oh yeah.  Yeah. He mostly feeds water. Yeah. Because he's not concerned. It's really high nitrogen. It's not something he would ever do if he was growing for a flower for market. Yeah. It's like a completely different mix. And that's why it's so bunk.   Like it's not going to come out heads because it was, it was a mixed for seeds for seed creation. Yeah. You know, and for to grow heads, you kind of want to give the plan everything that it needs. And then ideally let it use up its excess before you're done. Yeah. And it's also, it's also why you doesn't show a lot of pictures of the actual seed process making, because it's not pretty. Like it to feed it correctly to, to, to have it making healthy seeds. It's not a visually appealing plant, you know, some people and the majority people wouldn't understand that part. They don't even know it's doing a great job of making thick, healthy tiger striped seeds that are that are going to be good for customers, but it's not going to look pretty where if he has different rooms, for instance, that he's growing, he's using to do like seed pops and experiments. Yeah, he's going to like phenohunt and see what they are. Those soil beds will be mixed at a different ratio. Yeah. You know, it'll be a lot less nitrogen. You know, it'll be a lot more scaled for flower. Yeah.  Plants do that same thing. They eat at different rates. Yeah. They have different feeding requirements. They have different root systems. They drink different. And so what becomes, what becomes hard is like, you know, I've always thought when I was doing bigger shit, that you're trying to put plants that drink the same and eat the same in the same area. Yeah. Right? Because I've had situations where I'm burning one plant or one line and the other line wants more food. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Any time I have Erkl in the room, that's going on. Yeah. Or, or, you know, you're trying to grow something that drinks a lot and really fast versus something that like drinks slower like kush and you don't need to water that thing as much. So you end up over watering it to compensate, you know, and that's what makes like, that's, that's honestly like people dis monocropping. But that's why a lot of people like to monocrop. Yeah. Because you can dial in your nutrient regimen or how you're feeding your plant or your style, right? Yeah. To fit that crop. Like we have a good buddy Pip, souvenir seed co or whatever. And he talks about, you know, he was at our party one year. Remember he was, he was blown away by how good that diesel was. Yeah. And he said, you know, it was, you know, the cut was from him at the time. And, you know, he was used to putting one or two in the corner and he couldn't feed it the way he'd feed a whole room of sour. Yeah. So it would come out nice but not perfect. Yeah. You know, because it's one of those things where it had different requirements than the rest of the stuff he was doing. Yeah. So it wouldn't come out as nice. Yeah. Sour is also one of those where it's like, fucking, you miss it, you miss it. It's very easy to miss. You know, it's finicky. And so, you know, there's an aspect to that where people think that there's a one size fits all, there's a one method. They can take the method they know and apply it to anything. I mean, you start to see there's these like A5 and C5 and the cough and PIF and Cuban black haze are starting to gain in popularity or even GMO, right? Yeah. If you're going to have a plant that takes 12 to 15 weeks, you're going to have to feed it differently than a plant that takes eight to 10. Yep.   The plant's trying to feed on what it wants. Yeah. And it's either there or it's not. And I think that's a misconception, like maybe we could talk about that for a second. We're like, the plant absorbs salts. Yes. That's what it absorbs. Right? So, if you're feeding GH or, you know, I don't know, you know, Eagle or 2020 or, you know, or any kind of salt or liquid chem nutrition, you're giving it like the 17 major and macro elements like, in like an IV basically. Yeah. Right?  It's just they're in longer chains. So, you have to get various bacteria and fungi and stuff to break it down. Yeah. Make it available. Right? And so, like people don't get that. They're like, oh, you know, the plant, and if you break it, if you took a perfectly derived organic salt and a salt that GH, your cutting edge or somebody throws in their mix, you couldn't tell the difference under a microscope. Yeah. I don't even know. Like even if you were a soil scientist, you couldn't, right? No, that doesn't mean they're the same thing. That's not, that's not true.  Organic is more like, if you get it perfect, it gives the plant everything that it needs, and then there's a bunch of like relationships with the, with the soil itself that like, it likes and we don't really understand. You know, I have a question. I have a question for you. So, I am not worldly or knowledgeable about organic feeding. I've always been like a house in garden, can a type dude, bottles. Sure. And that's just what I rocked with, you know. So, when you want to force the plant to drink what you want it, when you're doing organics, do you just do something to lower the pH or raise the pH to? No. You have to, basically, when you're doing organics, you was, I mean, there's different approaches, like there's bottles, like for instance, like to use the same thing, canna, biocana. If you buy organic bottles, you're essentially buying things where like the company has taken the time to sort of like cook it or ferment it or brew it or whatever method, and those salts are more available than just adding raw amendments to the earth. Okay. Yeah.  You'd probably get it, add your raw amendments, and let it cook for a month or two before you'd even ever use it. Yeah. You know? And then, because what you're trying to do is you're trying to like get all those, all that bacteria and fungi and everything, time to break down the organic food in there and make it available, right? Because that's the issue, right? So the big difference is like, when you feed salt, you can guarantee that the plant, the availability is there. Yeah. If the temperature is right and the pH is right and the mix is right and your salt, it's going to get all that food. In organics, I'm hoping that food is there. But it has to be at a certain pH. Like a certain pH is nitrogen can't be carried, right? Certain pH, at certain pH, chem or organic, the plant has to have that pH to absorb it through its roots. Yeah. And certain ones, like nitrogen is more available at certain pH. Yeah. There's a range. There's like a chart, and that's kind of why people, they give you that range for cannabis. Yeah. Is because you know, you get five and a half versus 5.8 or something. Yeah. There's going to be certain things that are more available than in the mid-sixes and vice versa, right? And it's usually you start out lower and up higher, right? Yeah. I mean, if you want to do it that way. So, you know, it's one of those things where like, if you have a well-buffered organic soil, it's probably something you don't have to think about. Okay. If, you know, but it also depends, like, if you've got a great soil but your water is pH 9 coming out because it's well water, you might need to treat your water to not make the life of the microbial life in your soil harder. Okay. Right? But, yeah. So, there's an aspect to it where it's like, you know, and I don't think most people, most people look at it as where it's like salts are sort of like a cheat code, you know, where organics is like the pure way to go, right? And I don't, well, I mean, there's an aspect to that. I do think it's true, but I also think that there's some organics that's dirtier than salt. You know, people think that like salt is made in some kind of crazy lab when really it's like mind minerals that are refined to a certain purity. Uh-huh. And when you're talking hydroponic purity, that's like one step below like pharmaceutical grade. So, it's really, really clean and it's designed to run through aerogets, sprayers, drippers, all kinds of shit, not clock. Yeah. For the most part. Yeah. You know, and all that.  And so, organic is a label, but I don't think most people get that a lot of the organic stuff that you get is by products from other industries. I didn't know that. You didn't know that? I don't think so. No. If you get, I'll give you a perfect example, right? If you get bone meal or blood meal. Yeah. Okay? That's organic by law, but it comes from major slaughterhouses. Well, that makes sense. The cows aren't organic. Yeah. They weren't fed organic food. Okay. You could be getting McDonald's hamburger cows. Yeah. Your bone and blood meal. Burger can, Wendy's, right? Think about like the biggest meat buyers and producers and that's all mixed together and it's all, it's all the same and there's not actually a way to differentiate unless you're really lucky and you know an organic farm. Yeah. But it's all certified organic, right? Is one better than the other though? Like realistically? Well, so bone meal is ground up bones from cows, right? Okay. Blood meal is the juice and the sluice that comes off the slaughterhouse floor and they collect it and like powderize it. Delicious, right?  It's a byproduct from the poultry industry. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, that's feather. Okay.  Okay. Right?  Because it's it's it's legally organic. It's got the legal label. Yeah. By law, but it doesn't come from organic animals. Blood meal smells like girls period. It's gross. Well, yeah, it is. And you know, the issue, the issue used to become too where it's like, you know, when we used to be gorilla and stuff like that or whatever, when I first got to California, you use blood meal or something like that and all of a sudden, you get it wet and the the the vultures smell it.  Who wants that? Who thinks that there's fish and starts digging for it? Yeah. You know?  And so there's an aspect where it's like people think there's a free lunch and it's like it takes, even if you're using that stuff, it takes it a while for it to break down. Some of it's available quick, some of it not so much and like fish emulsion and all that, that's all from the, you know, the seafood industry. Yeah. It's all the brood bits of the nasty parts that they can't sell you. Some of the, some people like build the soil or whatever, you know? Like some people have stopped using bone meal because of the issues with cows and mad cow and just all the chem. Yeah. And they're selling you fish bone meal. Okay. Because, you know, because it's, it's, it's still bones and still calcium and all that, but it comes from the seafood industry because it's not quite as toxic. Yeah. Even though it's organic. So you could have an organic style where you could pick all these inputs. Uh huh. Where I would rather use can or cutting edge. Yeah. I would think it would, it would be cleaner to me. Yeah. You know, and even, even stuff that's clean like backwano or seabird guano, right? Mm-hmm. Or they don't, they're not, there's obviously not like factory backwano or factory seabird. Yeah. But, you know, you are destroying habitat to get it. Yeah. Right? Yeah.  Mm-hmm. Literally to send it to you. Yeah.  I don't know. No.  That's, that's a good point. I have watched and collected water. I'm dead serious.   Yeah. Yeah we do. It's just cheaper to get it out of Peru or Indonesia and ship it because they don't have to obey labor laws. Yeah. And kids are great workers. They're great workers. Yeah. You know, and there's not child labor in there. So a kid with a bucket, you know, and so it's good. I'm not, I believe me, I've used tons of backwondo and seabird guano and stuff, so I'm not dissing it. I'm just saying that that's the reality of getting it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great nutrient. I love plants from, I love brewing teas with it and stuff like that. It's like, it's good stuff, but it's not exactly harvested environmentally soundly. And what happens to the people isn't the greatest thing. I remember the first time I got sent home with tea from the hydroponic store. My very first trip got sent home with compost tea and I really sat there wondering if I was supposed to drink this. Like if it was some hippie brew like that I was supposed to drink. I didn't understand it was for the plants. That's all my embarrassing stories. Yeah. So, you know, in fact, you know, now we are really in a golden age of teas and compost inputs and availability. I'll say that like, I mean I used to work in the hydro industry and so I got to know how they sourced a bunch of amendments. What the differences in quality were and why certain companies were cleaner and better versus other ones that were using cheap inputs and covering it up. Yeah. Right. And now you have a situation that goes on and it's really a bummer, but it's like there's a lot of stuff that's from the ocean that we used to consider super heady. Right. But now that they test for heavy metals, it's dangerous. Yeah. Because it's got too much lead or too much arsenic or too much cadmium or whatever in it. Yeah. You know, so you could be like, oh, I'm using fish emulsion and this and that and I've got all this amazing stuff and I even have a hook and you're putting all this stuff in there and then your weed test high for heavy metals. Yeah. I mean, that's why they tell like women you're only supposed to eat so much tuna and so much big fish when you're pregnant. Oh, yeah, because of mercury. Because of mercury. Well, that stuff is in, you know, you want to get some amazing crab or shrimp or whatever. Yeah. It's got it in it because they live in a bath of it. Right. Yeah.  Yeah. And organics is the smooth, reliable choice. And I think that that there's, you know, there's like, it's more complex than that. Yeah. And you can grow good weed with both. You know, there's a lot of organic weed that's grown that I don't consider that's that nice. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.  And so maybe, maybe maybe we should like get out of the esoteric for a bit. And I'll tell a story that like, like is pertinent to people smoking, right? So I used to go, I used to go to the organ country fair, okay, which is right outside Eureka. It's like a famous hippie festival still goes on. Got delayed a little bit with COVID or whatever. But so I went up there and I was, I was from Chicago and I lived down in Cali for a few years and all that. But so I was all salt back then because where I grew up and where I came up, like growing weed, you use salt. I lived in apartments. Like there wasn't, you weren't like grabbing soil. You weren't, you didn't have a backyard, you know, like you was like, so anyway, but you move out to Mendo and it's like a lot more, it's a lot more like back to the earth, back to the land or whatever. So there's a lot of people out here that grow dirt. And I went up there and I had all this salt weed, okay? And it was like the super skunk and the Chem 91 and the Mendo perps and, you know, sour, super dogs, stuff like that. And they all loved it. And they were all super prejudiced against chemweed. Yeah. But they loved my chemweed, right? Yeah. And then they all grew organic. And I never knew a bunch of cats that grew organic like that. Yeah. And so we were like comparing each other's weed all the time. Yeah.  Right? And I ended up, I ended up going and working a little bit for John Jebbins who's written a couple famous books. He lives up in Willets by me and learning as much as I could about organics. Right? Yeah. At a time when like organics was very, very like do it yourself. Yeah. Not very many, online didn't exist really.  Yeah. Maybe there was earth, there was earth juice. Yeah. Earth juice. I remember earth juice. Yeah. Yeah. Still around. There was very few products. There was very few inoculants. There was very few bacteria. There was very few any. It was very like buy raw ingredients and go for it yourself. Right? Yeah. So I did this project for I don't know, probably four years where I grew my favorite strains in my, in one of my rooms and most of the room was dedicated for flower for medical, right? But I had a section that side by side in the same two lights. I would grow the best organic weed I could and I would grow the best salt weed I could of the same strains over and over and over again. Right? And then it was just for head and so I would pass out a bunch of joints to friends of mine and stuff like that and it would all be blind testing and they would just smoke and tell me what's up. Yeah. And that started to shock me. Right? Yeah. Because sometimes with certain strains they consistently preferred the salt. Yeah. Right? And then the salt was so much easier. I didn't have to put all that. I mean people should know back then it's like we made the people that taught me like we made our own soil in like concrete in like those concrete tumblers. You know? You'd buy one of those. Yeah, I know. You know?  I bet, I bet. From breathing guano Yeah. So it was actually kind of dangerous.  Yeah. And so I would try to make the headiest mix I cooked. Yeah. And I learned that like some strains consistently people like the organic one better and some strains people some consistently like the salt without knowing which strains do you remember? Do you remember which strains? Yeah, 100%. The, the, the, the Kems and the Sours typically like were easier with salt. Yeah. The Mendo perps the, the super skunk a few different ones would come out really nice organic. Yeah. Right.  It was just like what you preferred back to back. And I think that's really important for people. I, people have been asking me a bunch because I've been making some posts about various historical strains. Yeah.  I'm going to get these four sour plants. Yeah. And I'm going to grow them at the same time under the same environment. Right. I'm not going to get it from my buddy who grows a totally different style and his room's different temperature. Yeah.  Right. So all these plants all these plants for three, four years were all treated the same way every time. Yeah. You know.  So you're giving out AB joints. Yeah. Right. And, and, and trying to get feedback. And I don't think most people ever compare styles. They're doing one style at a time. Yeah. Right. So how do you know what's different? Right. And so we were trying to figure out like me and a few friends, we were trying to figure out, well, what is better? Yeah. What is, what is, and it was surprising in the sense that, you know, and there's another aspect too where it's like you start to realize once you start to get a little bit more educated about it. But indoor organic is almost never like outdoor organic. Yeah. I wouldn't know. So, well, I mean, I'll give you a perfect example to make total sense. Right. So indoor organic is almost a hundred percent organic. Right. It's like a mixture of peat moss and perlite and, you know, or, or cocoa or different things where outside, maybe like 10 percent of the medium is organic. Yeah. And the rest of it is clay or, or crushed rocks. Minerals are like almost 45 percent of most soils. So like that's why they talk about like there's a six inch layer of top soil in a lot of places. And that's like your organic matter. And then underneath that it's a bunch of rock basically. It might be porous rock but crushed rock. But that's what most earth is. So like most people's organic inside is like soilless with added amendments. Yeah.  It wouldn't exist in nature anywhere. Your mix. Yeah. It's like a cannabis specific mix basically for an indoor garden. Yeah.  Yeah. And then using that. Yeah. I mean it's not really organic is it. Well I mean you can't call it organic anyway. Organic is like a federal term. Yeah. That's what I mean. It's like I don't even think legal weed. I don't even think legal weed. You're allowed to use the term organic yet. Interesting. I don't think so because because organic is actually you have to you have to meet federal criteria. Yeah. In order to to get the organic label and not be lying. Right. Yeah. But you can't get federal approval for cannabis because they still think it's it's it's funky. Yeah. You know people saying artificial light isn't organic. Right. So you know and then there's a thing too where people talk about this is like a big keyword and by no means am I trying to diss anybody but what is living soil mean. Right.   Right. But almost all organic if it's active has a bunch of microbial life. Sure. You know if you if you take home a well-made tea from your hydro store that they brewed fresh or you make tea yourself you're putting in trillions of living organisms into your soil. It's alive. Yeah.  Right. Yeah. But you know but even that is like do you know why most people use no till. I have no clue. To prevent erosion dude. There's a lot of because if you don't till the earth then when the rain comes it's not going to wash away into the river bank. Okay. Does that make sense. No. No.   And then there's torrential rain that comes in. Okay.  Yeah that makes sense. Right. Okay. So that's how that's where most of our top soil went.  It did. There was like Yeah.  Yeah.  So I had no idea that's what the dust bowl meant. That's what the dust bowl was.  So weird. So no till is basically like this thing where in conventional agriculture they don't want to till the earth and have it blow away or rinse away and in rain. So they don't they don't till the earth they leave it right and they just dig a hole for for the plant. But a lot of them use conventional herbicides and kill all the weeds. Okay. So no till inside is like this guy just commented I thought no till was like not disturbing the microbial content. Well that's what weed people say. For no for no till outside it's that but it's also a huge amount of erosion control. But you don't have erosion problems indoors. Yeah. You could till all you want.  You know. Yeah that's why I was confused when you're talking about a windstorm I'm wondering how that applies to indoor for no till. But that's what I mean but like no till was designed so the soil doesn't fly away. Yeah. And then it gets applied to an indoor environment where there's no wind. Yeah. That's yeah. Right. Yeah. And then you know there's people and when I'm talking about nutrition I'm sure I'm going to people are going to get all upset because I'm going to you're going to start stepping on toes and they're going to say oh well no it's about the layers of microbial and fungal and this and that not disturbing them or whatever you know. But to be honest like cannabis is a shallow root growth plant it likes to grow wider than it goes deep. Yeah. And so basically what you're trying to do with cannabis is give it a not some kind of aerated good amount of air and water and the ability for the roots to freely go where they want. Yeah. You know so a hard compact soil that's not that's not a good job. I've also been I've also been accused of being wider than deep. This this is wider than deep. Yeah. Yeah. Shallow even. Shallow some say shallow. Someone say shallow. Why does all in perspective. Someone say so getting back so you know getting back to like what all this means is that. You know I I was reading some comments from some people of the other day where they were talking about like their friends that do no till. It works amazing for certain strains. Yeah. And then other strains they do don't respond very well to it. Or you know you have a situation like we have a buddy up in Trinity and it's like. If you're going to do depths organically. Yeah. That's a lot harder than a single season where you can give it. You know a food designed for vegetative growth for a series of months. Yeah. And then food designed for a bloom for a series of months. Yeah. It's not as easy organically to like get two or three rips out of the same thing a year. No. Yeah. That makes sense. You know and time it perfectly for what you're trying to do. So it's like. And I don't don't get me wrong. I think organic quality weed is like. Can be better than any salt. To be honest. But I think a lot of people don't get there. Like salt has a way higher floor. There's a lot of poorly grown organic weed. Yeah. You know. And it's not like they're messing up. It's more it's more just like the availability of the food isn't there when the plant needs it. Yeah. So you know like that. Huh. It took me years.  And to me was as.  So much easier. Why why waste the time because it was it was really special. I mean it all it also depends you know like.  Of course. Right. And that's important because they don't all fit. You know. Yeah. Let's face it like in today's economy with we prices so cheap and you know. No matter whether you're whether you're in the traditional market or you're in the fully legal market. You know times are tough. Right. And so people are trying to get X amount of weight per greenhouse or per outdoor patch or per grow room. Right. And so you're trying to get as much pretty weed because people are visual as possible. Yeah. Right. And that's not necessarily heads. I mean even back in the old traditional days. A lot of the guys I knew that were running 50 or 100 lighters would get their heads from people that were growing six or eight lighters. Yeah. Yeah. That's a pretty common thing even now. Yeah. Well the other part of it too is like back in the 215 days when anybody with a 215 card could go to a like a dispensary and excuse me legally sell their herb to that dispenser. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Think about that dispensary. There was no regulations. There was no cost of entry. They bought so much garage weed. Oh yeah. Tons dude. And they could just pick based on quality. Yeah. And guys are bringing in weed that's like you know it was cut two weeks ago. It's fresh. It's still in the perfect form. It's in turkey bags. It's like not very regulated. And they could just pick the best and ditch the rest. Yeah. Now with all this legality. You know a lot of times some of that weed doesn't hit the shelf for two or three months. Yeah. And it's being grown in these big salt factories. Or it's being grown at a scale where like all the eight lighter guy could do. They can't. So you. Sucks it. Huh. You you've actually experienced scaling up major right. Oh yeah. Why don't you talk about that. I I've never done the except with the big big reversal.  I had never done major major scale as far as feeding and all that stuff. And it was it was. Significantly different especially re-veging at that scale. It was insane. Any. You know. And there's a there's an aspect to where you can talk about this is pretty funny because. You know there was these people that just.  Right yeah. Yeah. Everybody agrees that there's a difference between craft and commercial. Yeah. The difference is that people get. Hype the about like. When does that where is that line. Yeah. You know and like I said before. I used to never see the people that would do or great growers and doing a great job. They still would not get the same quality weed of their fifty or a hundred lighter that we would get out of a garage size scene. Yeah. For the most part they just wouldn't. They had way less time per plant. They weren't doing quite as many little things that made the plants happy. You know like it was a little bit more commercial. And yeah. You know and then there's an aspect to where it's like. They so scaling becomes hard. And a lot of times when people scale. They lose quality. So we can talk about that for a minute too. And I'm not trying to diss them but you look at like the the jungle boys. Right. Or some of these big you know rock wall factory farms. Yeah. They're doing that because they have all these different rooms.  Yeah. For sure.  And then just like work on looking at the data. And then messing with the settings and the data and not looking each individual plant. Right. Yeah. And so what they're doing is is that. There's a lot of technology from Northern Europe. That basically is the basis of all hydroponics. Yeah. Grow Dan all that they all learned how to do all this growing tomatoes and peppers and cucumbers and all these vegetables. For places that are shitty like Northern Europe but have money. Yeah. Yeah.  Tens of thousands of plants. Tens of thousands of lights. Huge. Yeah. Right. So you see these trick systems that they're installing. They're all based on that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So they get all these things and they're looking at graphs right. And they've got they've got like the moisture meter and they're perfectly planning the wet and dry cycles and they're and they're you know dialing in their their salts and everything.  It's so intense. And then people call their weed cardboard. Yeah. Right. Because what happens is is that you're trying to do a one size fits all and cannabis actually it turns out it doesn't like being fed perfectly its whole life. No. Like they've done studies where they've shown that certain amounts of drought stress or certain amounts of stress to the plant actually creates more terpenes and more crystal. Yeah.  No I've seen it firsthand those straights stress like where did I first learn that about it was it had to do with bugs attacking the plant and and that's why the trichomes are there.  You know and so you get these perfect rooms and everything's perfect and everything's everything's dialed in and they're like fine tuning stuff and they control over all their parameters right and then their weed comes up not that good you know and the guy that like you know like if they got a little dry and a little will to you a few times and they stressed here and there a little bit like that weed was happy. Yeah it was it was better but they're trying to grow like a reasonably good looking product at scale.  Yeah you know you know you have a situation there's people that you that are IG that are quite popular and they don't have that many plants and they have a greenhouse. Yeah and that's their job and you can go out there and you can baby them and you can give them every little thing but then you join a legal scene and and like you're working I don't talk very much about what I was doing but like you try to develop some things at scale and you've got to water some acreage and it's a whole different thing. Yeah and it's not that easy to do. No I can't imagine you know it's so much to go wrong. A lot of people messed up even just going from how big they were doing just to like two or three or four ten thousand square foot. Yeah like and they started really and they started you know really messing you know they started really messing up. Yeah you know and and so like a lot of and that's why because because like dispensaries can't just buy the best weed from whoever walks in with a duffel bag anymore. Yeah they were able to buy from like a lot of small time local gardeners. You know and the bay would get tons of people from even L.A. and L.A. and San Diego were flooded with weed from Humboldt and Lake Mendo. There was people that would drive up to my area every week to get to bring it down to the dispensaries that was their entire gig was to flow it right into dispensaries. And so they could they could say yes or no to any weed that walked through their door. Right and now there's all this regulation and there's all this thing there's all this packaging and there's all this testing and there's all this time and people are trying to learn how to grow on a lot bigger scale. And their weed is like. Yeah way down. Way down in quality in my opinion. You know and people are going to learn they're going to get better over time.  And the availability. Is shittier. But at least it looks good on I.G. And that's another thing.  Because you couldn't sniff it or smell it or anything like that like you you know you could just see it. And so cookies cookies was perfectly timed for the social media wave. Yeah. Because it was unusually visually attractive. And very unique looking. It definitely did stand out from what was out there. Yeah. And now there's a whole thing where you see so many of these different strains and a lot of them I think have been chosen based on looks and testing. And they can be like not to judge it but oh look here's Apple fritter and it tested 33 percent. Look how fire it looks.  Are you smoking and everyone's all excited because the people that they respect are hyping it and then six months later you know you're like I don't think I'm going to buy that seventy dollar eight. Yeah it just didn't it just didn't hit it for me. You know what before before we school far too far along I do remember there's one thing that I wanted to talk about and what when it's feeding for breeding as far as vegetative stuff. One thing that I find a lot of bridges do when I talk to him and it's totally counterproductive. Is when you are running cycles of different rooms in different different strains you're trying to do multiple projects. And there are one after the other after the other. You start learning to feed differently to slow down the growth. To try to make room. And that's not something that's that's totally counterproductive and counterintuitive. But some of us have learned how to stunt our plants and bring them out of being stunted. Because it's just there's no way to to constantly have that room to feed in new cycles.  Well yeah I mean if you've got if you've got a big collection of moms and stock then very likely what you're doing is you're keeping a bunch at moderate it's a small size under enough light to like keep them going and happy but nothing too vigorous. And then you've got to always market health. And then you're planting you're planning on putting some plants in like a vigorous very well lit spot to get them going. Because you have projects in mind for them and you want to get very vigorous cuttings and small plants going off them. And so there's a rotation there that goes in. Where it's like a fine balance. Yeah if you're hurting to to not you know. If you're someone like CSI or whatever and you've got a hundred and fifty different plants in moms and then you've got a bunch of stuff you're keeping for phenol hunting and all of a sudden you've got hundreds of different strains and you might want to slow things down on a bunch of it. Yeah a phenol hunt you might want to keep it going really slow.  Until you see what you have because if you start pumping it like you're trying to pump it to get ready to bloom a room. All of a sudden you've got jungle growth and where do you put it all. Yeah. Yeah especially keeping some of the older lines the the inoff life hazes and stuff like that.  Yeah it gets super jungly you know and then you know and and so you have an aspect where it's like I just thought we could talk about it from a flower perspective too because you try to talk to people and like the thing that I get the most when we try to talk nutrition is like smugness. Like they were people people are smug. Oh yeah yeah yeah like they want they want to know that I'm growing the better way. This way works.  You know and I'm not I'm not dissing anybody I'm I'm not like that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm just trying to say that like very few people are doing side by sides to try to see what methods are giving them better weed. They're growing the same style at one time and if they change styles they change it over entirely. Yeah you know and so you're not really comparing you're just and you know most people's goals are just to sell it. Right so yeah there's things with organic like when I first moved here there was people that had been using their beds or using their holes in the in the hills or whatever for 10 or 15 20 years and every year those things got better and better. Right because they were able to add amendments they were able to add you know bacteria and various things it was alive it was like old and aged and fully functional and work and going good to go. If you're going to grow organic the first rip or two probably isn't going to be as nice as the fifth or sixth one. Okay that makes sense because it takes like you know you've heard about green sand you've never heard about green sand. Green sand doesn't even become bioavailable for two years after you put it in. Yeah same with normal silica you know it's like one year I think. There's things that are on that are fairly immediate there's things that take two or three months there's things that take a year you know and so if you have aged if you have aged stuff you know like a lot of that breaking down on availability has happened.  Yeah.  Don't try to copy some giant scene. Yeah they are not the way for you. They are not growing as good a weed as you could on a smaller scale.  Right. Yeah. If you're going to grow at scale you're going to try to have to figure out how can I take the methods that I like and scale them up. Yeah. You're probably going to sacrifice some quality at scale. You know and you know and if you're if you're trying to grow for seed then you know then definitely you're not growing for flour. You're probably going to want to add more nitrogen you're probably going to want to top dress with some different things. You know I also like to use and I'm I'm a sufferer for power as I just because I used you know regular silica for so long and didn't understand that it wasn't really very bioavailable for the plant and when I started using the power as I stuff because someone was asking about feeding for veg moms and stuff like that. That's probably when one of the the biggest game changes for me was that specific additive monosilicic acid or orthosilicic acid because it makes it makes everything so readily and bioavailable it's just so fast how quick it up takes nitrogen and everything that goes along with it. And I should also say something too right like so whether you're organic or salt one of the big reasons why things don't grow in winter is that the roots get too cold. Yeah and then the pour shrink and when the pour shrink and the and the relationship between the pressure both in the roots and within the the soil itself changes they can't uptake salt.  Right. But the temperatures too much for it. It needs a certain temperature range. Yeah. And there's also a thing too where it's like water in the 80s holds like half the oxygen that water in the 60s holds. So there's actually like a window there. Yeah. Where like mid 60s the low 70s is probably the best ratio of like absorbability versus like oxygen ratio because the only place your plant really absorbs oxygen is through its roots. Yeah. It takes CO2 into the leaves and it takes O2 into the roots. You know. And when people over water that's what fucks the plant up is there's no oxygen in there. Yeah. That's our roots can't. Yeah the roots can't breathe so they drown. Right. And so you know there's an aspect where it's like if you're growing indoor and you want to be organic there's trade-offs like you see these people that are like oh I'm on the 26th cycle. Yeah. I just add various amendments over time. The I just water it the bio you know the the organic does what it needs to do. The plant absorbs what it wants when it wants. But then I have people that grow organic that grow in pots and their whole goal is to give it enough food to veg and bloom to where they want and then run out of food towards the end. So that the plant starts to starve itself for nutrition and you start getting all those beautiful autumn colors on the plant. Yeah. And then when you harvest it it's used up all of its excess because if you're growing KNF style or you're growing like stuff that's amended that you just you know you're no till and you're never changing it well then you're never flushing for instance. Yeah.  You know whether you even salt or organic some people want give it just the amount of food it needs and then start it. Yeah. And some people give it chock full food right up until the end of flower. Yeah.    Yeah that's a supposed to look. And they're like no no it's got some funk in it. So a lot of people will just pump it right up until the day of harvest. Because it looks better. Because it looks better to the broker. It's not going to smoke is good yeah but it looks better to the broker. Yeah.  Right and so then people don't grow as nice a weed. I mean there's even a thing where like you know I'll say this about the chems where it's like if you grow the dog or what people call the chem 91 now and you take it what we all use to take it which is about 70 ish days. It usually tests between 18 and 22%. Yeah.  Right. But if you take it 53 or 54 days it'll still have white hairs all over it. But it'll test 28 to 32%. Yeah. And so a lot of people that like put it on the market they take it early. Right. To get that high percentage. Because the shop and the and the distro or whatever like it's one they don't want to give you for a 19 or 21% weed. They don't want to give you the price point.  Yeah. But it's tested 30% and the shop is happy. Yeah. The distro is happy and they'll give you your price. Yeah. And it's not as good for the smoker. Right. But yeah. A lot in a lot of cases like these regulations and these new rules are not taking the smoker into account.