Ie. Rwyf hwn am yafgλwgr Hesliffau Studios. Maen nhw'n amser pan yng Nghymru, Lancain fydd o ddim sefiu'r yay'veš ac dar throttleun yn Ferswrdd teichnoweithio i fynt dim o cymdeithasol ni i roi sportio hser Pollff processes conference dechakrateidol i ymburd, ac yn stemsirheitio fydd o'u ddatganfodol i gwohl Plant Caerhwuur, South Lanarkshire, East Ayrshire and, from my constituency in West Lothian, as well as from the Cairntow site here in Edinburgh. I want to start, as I did in a recent debate, brought forward by Mary Fee MSP, by saying to every member of the Gypsy Traveller community who are with us today, but also every member of the Gypsy Traveller community the length and breadth of Scotland that this is your Parliament and, like all citizens of Scotland, you deserve the very best of representation from your elected politicians. Over the years, we know that Parliament has had three inquiries and has returned time and time again to the issues of inequality and racism and the consequences of such to the Gypsy Traveller community. More recently, the Equality and Human Rights Committee also focused on Gypsy Travellers to mark human rights day in December of last year. More recently, as well, Mary Fee led an excellent member's debate only a few weeks ago. Some of the Gypsy Travellers who are here today have been directly involved in these meetings and in these inquiries. I want to thank you for your input over many years and for not allowing us to forget about the inequalities you face and the human rights that you are unable as yet to enjoy. I think that it is fair to say that there has been plenty of talk and insufficient action. We have indeed made some progress—it is fair to record that—but progress has been patchy, progress has been inconsistent and, to be frank, it is quite simply not being good enough and that is what has to change. As we mark the centenary of votes for women, I am reminded of the motto of the suffrage movement, which fits well with our aims to improve the lives of Gypsy Travellers. That has to be about deeds, not words. I want to put in record the Scottish Government's clear and unwavering commitment to improving the lives of Gypsy Travellers, but first I want to set the context for this. As members will recall, the independent race equality adviser Callianne Lyle, who published her report in December 2017, reported that, on every indicator of what is required to live a happy, productive and fulfilled life, Gypsy Travellers are worse off than any other community in Scotland. When we published the race equality action plan the same month, I acknowledged that we needed to do much more to develop what I called a radical new approach, which will bring about change on a much shorter timescale. That is the context for the creation of the new ministerial working group that I chair, which brings together ministers with responsibility for housing, education, employment and health. The job of the ministerial working group is to develop and drive forward that radical new approach across Government and to bring about real change at a much faster pace. Our approach is firmly rooted in human rights and we will take full account of the recommendations of the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination, which challenges state partners to, I quote, to ensure a systematic and coherent approach and addressing the challenges that members of those communities continue to face. The ministerial working group has met twice this year. The first meeting focused on accommodation, where we looked at a range of issues, including site provision and site standards. Since then, we have published a review of site standards ahead of the minimum standards coming into effect this month. We have also been working on a set of proposals to ensure that the planning system better meets the needs of the community. The second meeting of the ministerial working group looked at education. We heard directly from David Onelson, a young gypsy traveller who is the driving force behind the new young gypsy traveller assembly. He gave us a very powerful insight into the experiences of young gypsy travellers within our schools and within our education system. We will have two further meetings this year when we will focus on employment and when we will focus on health. Early next year, we will share a draft set of actions that we will discuss with the community and those who work with them. By this time next year, we will publish a concrete set of actions to be delivered in the current parliamentary term. I can say this to chamber today that it will not just be warm words, it will not be more of the same. Clearly, that has not worked. I put it simply that the status quo is not an option. We must be bold, innovative and radical if we are to make real tangible improvements that have a positive impact on our gypsy travellers. Calle Annie Lyle's report made it absolutely clear that delivering genuine improvements in the life chances of Scotland's gypsy travellers over a relatively short period of time will be dependent on the community being involved as full partners in planning and delivery. I could not agree more. In the race equality action plan, we said that we would establish a mechanism to ensure continued engagement with members of the gypsy traveller community. Over the past few months, working with the community and with trusted partners in both the public sector and the third sector, we have identified a very strong desire from women who want to become more active in their personal lives as well as being more engaged with civic matters at a local and national level. I am delighted to announce that we will invest £100,000 in a new Gypsy Traveller Women's Voices project, which will engage with women to build their confidence, to build their capacity and encourage participation in daily and public life in Scotland, focusing on issues that matter most to them. The Gypsy Traveller Women's Voices project will be run by MECOP, alongside their existing Gypsy Traveller support project, which we have funded for a number of years. It will offer a range of learning, development and support opportunities to collaboratively empower women in the most marginalised of communities. I am really looking forward to working closely with those remarkable women to improve the lived experiences and life chances of themselves and their families over the months and years ahead. The Gypsy Traveller Women's Voices project will complement the new young Gypsy Traveller Assembly, which we recently welcomed to this Parliament. Over the next two years, we will continue to provide direct financial and practical support to the young Gypsy Traveller Assembly to help to strengthen their active participation in decisions that affect their lives. That will include a programme of training and mentoring that will be tailored to the needs of individual members and the group as a whole. I hope that our support for these two new pieces of work demonstrates that we are serious in our endeavours to work with the community to develop actions that meet their needs and aspirations and are delivered in a way that is appropriate and culturally sensitive. I believe that this is an ideal time to be having this important debate for three reasons. First, the new cross-party working group on Gypsy Travellers will have its first meeting tomorrow. I want to thank Mary Fee for establishing the group and thank the team at Meacop for its role as a secretariat. I will follow the progress of the group with great interest and I look forward if I can be so bold to an invitation to contribute to the group. I also in all seriousness welcome the additional—certainly—this may be the invitation, Ms Fee. It is the invitation, Presiding Officer. Can I just confirm in front of the chamber that the Cabinet Secretary is more than welcome to attend each and every one of the cross-party groups meetings of Gypsy Travellers? Well done, Ms Fee. Thank you, Ms Fee. She is very kind. In all seriousness, I also want to welcome the additional scrutiny, as well as support, which I hope the cross-party working group will bring to the work of the ministerial working group. The second reason that this debate is timely is that COSLA's community wellbeing board has recently approved a paper supporting the work of the ministerial group. Having discussed this issue with both Councillor Wittum, who is convener of the community wellbeing board, who is joining us today, and also in the public gallery, and having also discussed this with Councillor Evison, the COSLA president, I am confident that we have their full support. Last but not least, I am delighted that we are having this debate today because June is Gypsy Roma Traveller history month, which we are marking for the first time in Scotland this year. The Scottish Government is proud to be supporting two days of events in Edinburgh next week, which will showcase and celebrate Gypsy Roma Traveller history and culture and stimulate discussion with a variety of audiences, including school children and leaders of public bodies. I hope that that will play a part in challenging stereotypes and reducing discrimination. Before I finish, I want to draw attention to the intolerable levels of prejudice and hostility that Gypsy Traveller communities experience on a daily basis, such as the fear of a verbal or a physical attack that many choose to hide their identity at school or at work. In fact, I have been really struck by hearing from young people who described the difficult decision of whether to come out as a Gypsy Traveller or to hide their identity instead in order to stay safe and in order to feel safe. Those hostile attitudes and behaviours have absolutely no place in modern and inclusive Scotland, and we no longer tolerate any other forms of racist abuse. We must all challenge discrimination towards Gypsy Travellers whenever we encounter it, whether it is here in this Parliament, in our constituencies or as we go about our daily lives. I want to close by reinforcing two key points that I have touched upon already. Firstly, my absolute commitment and that of the Scottish Government to do much, much more to address the poor outcomes and the discrimination that this community continues to experience and to do so quickly because it is long overdue. Secondly, I want to seek explicitly the active support of this Parliament as a whole and every individual member elected to it. I sincerely hope that we can work together across the political, geographical and organisational boundaries to improve the lives of Scotland's Gypsy Travellers community and to put an end to what the Equality and Human Rights Commission rightly describes as the last bastion of respectable racism. I move the motion in my name. I gently say to the public gallery that I understand why I wish to applaud but it is not permitted in the Scottish Parliament. I say that rebuked very gently, I hope. I call on Annie Wells to speak to and move amendment 12690.1. Ms Wells, eight minutes please. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Only last month did I speak in Mary Fe's debate on Gypsy Travellers and how insightful it was to hear from the speakers their thoughts on what needs to be done to improve the lives of the people in this community. I was greatly encouraged by the cross-party support that we saw in the last debate and I am pleased to see that this issue is finally getting the attention that it deserves. As a member of the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, I have been made well aware of the issues that surround the Gypsy Traveller community, whether that is in housing, education, employment or health. The Scottish Parliament has a long history with that topic and, in 2001, the then Equalities and Equalities Committee carried out an inquiry into Gypsy Travellers and public sector policies. In 2012 and 2013, two reports were published on which, as a committee, we undertook an evidence session last June. In assessing the progress that has been made since, we heard from members of the Gypsy Traveller community and to quote David Donaldson, since the Scottish Parliament's inception, very little has changed. In fact, the situation has remained completely stagnant. In all fairness, when speaking in last month's debate, the cabinet secretary was very honest about the lack of progress, stating that, until that point, it had been patchy and inconsistent. I recognise the work that has been done through the work of the new ministerial group and the establishment of the Young Gypsy Traveller Assembly, which I sincerely hope provides the step change needed. I recognise that the group is working with the community and I hope that, in doing so, a balance has reached between bridging the gaps with public service provision and maintaining the traditional way of life. As I alluded to in my amendment, I absolutely support those moves but believe that it is vital in going forward that measurable indicators are provided in order to review the progress being made. Central to this lack of progress, I believe, is a lingering sense that it is okay to be discriminated towards Gypsy Travellers, whereas public attitudes in Scotland to diversity and ethnic minorities have improved greatly in the past 20 years. The worrying exception to that trend seems to be the Gypsy Traveller community. Ruth Maguire I thank Annie Wells for taking an intervention. I wonder, while she is making that point, if she can confirm if her colleague Douglas Ross has received any disciplinary action against him or undertaken any diversity training for his, frankly, shameful comments last year. Annie Wells I thank Ruth Maguire. I do not set the disciplinary arrangements in the party but I know that the member had made an apology. I am speaking here on behalf of me in this Parliament and I just want to make sure that we do create the cross-party consensus that we have done so far in the previous debates that we have had in this Parliament and the Government will have my full support and the Scottish Conservatives full support in that. The most recent Scottish social attitudes survey showed that 31 per cent of people in Scotland would be unhappy if a relative married someone from the Gypsy Traveller community, and 34 per cent of people thought that Gypsy Traveller would be unsuitable to be a primary school teacher. We have seen those attitudes simmer into popular culture. In 2012, we saw how Channel 4's big fat Gypsy wedding series came under fire after it was blamed for an increase in bullying and negative stereotyping of the Gypsy Traveller communities. We should channel out on this community not for entertainment but to celebrate the rich culture contribution Gypsy Travellers have made to the Scottish society since as far back as the 12th century. As Mary Fee greatly emphasised in the member's debate, the Gypsy Traveller community is extremely diverse and vibrant, characterised by a strong sense of cultural identity. Often absent from history or misrepresented, it is a culture with a rich variety of languages and strong oral tradition, with stories passed down from generation to generation. Some groups are highly mobile, moving on when work opportunities have been exhausted, and others live permanently in one area, sometimes traditional brick and mortar home, travelling only a few weeks or months of the year. When I was reading through old committee reports, it was the written evidence of Gypsy Traveller Nadia Foy that made me truly understand the importance of identity and tradition to this community. She said, for us, travelling is not just physically moving, it is a state of mind. We often say that it is in our blood. That is why I too welcome the first ever Gypsy Roma Traveller history month in Scotland, taking place this month, and I look forward to hearing more about it. When it comes to alienation from public services, the impact of marginalisation is clear and obvious boundaries remain, something that is magnified by the culture of self-reliance and the likelihood that some families will have no permanent address. Accessing service provision can therefore be difficult. With health, many Gypsy Travellers often face difficulties trying to visit a GP, and evidence from the 2012 committee highlighted that some Gypsy Travellers will travel as far as 300 miles to see a dentist or doctor, they trust and know will see them. The impact of that is clear. Many Gypsy Travellers experience inexcusable health inequalities and lower life expectancies. The age profile of Gypsy Travellers is much younger as compared to the population as a whole, with only 28 per cent of the population aged 45 as compared with 44 per cent of the population as a whole. In 2012, a number of suggestions were put forward regarding outreach initiatives and health visits to sites, where patients can be put in direct contact with health professionals. I would be extremely grateful to the cabinet secretary to hear more on that and what work is being done now. When it comes to education, we know that there can be difficulties in accessing education services when travelling, and in addressing that, we can see what work can be done to expand initial efforts to provide flexible alternatives to school-based learning. I also look forward to hearing from the cabinet secretary on the bridging programmes that will assist younger members of the community to transition into mainstream education. Assuring during the committee evidence sessions, bullying and discrimination also remain huge barriers to learning within schools. Many Gypsy Traveller children continue to be singled out with many hiding their ethnicity to get through school. Again, I look forward to hearing more about what will be done to assist schools in being better prepared to respond to Gypsy Traveller needs and counter-discrimination. When it comes to housing, minimum standards for council-assigned sites are not being met with many built in undesirable and unsafe locations, often on unpopular brownfield sites. Many sites often experience issues with dampness, mould and access to water. I am therefore pleased that the Scottish Government has been proactive in addressing that by working together with local authorities and COSLA, and I look forward to seeing how partnership working will bring about innovative practice in this area. To finish today, I would like to reiterate my support for the Scottish Government's motion. It is welcome that the lives of Gypsy Traveller community are being discussed more prominently across the chamber, as it is only by highlighting the issues that we will begin to progress their lives among our communities in a fairer way. The working group has also a step in the right direction, and I urge the Scottish Government to continue to be open and transparent about the work that the group is doing, not only for the benefit of the members in this chamber, but more importantly, the Gypsy Traveller community. Sadly, we still see the Gypsy Traveller community stereotype in many walks of life, but by working together, we can preserve the traditions of our traditional community in the modern world. I thank the cabinet secretary for bringing forward this important debate, appropriately timed during Gypsy Traveller history month, and following on from Mary Fee's recent debate. I would like to commend Mary Fee on her passionate campaigning to improve the lives of Gypsy Traveller community, which is not just one singular community, but comprised of diverse groups, each with its own unique culture and history. Before I had ever met Mary, I was aware of her work in the field of equalities and for being a champion for seldom-haired voices, so I am really proud to be sitting on the bench next to Mary today. We are not just here to thank each other as politicians, but I would like to thank the many organisations, including the Equality and Human Rights Commission and Meacop Care Centre, for their contributions, as well as campaigning organisations, including the Gypsy Council, the Scottish Gypsy Traveller Association, the Scottish Gypsy Traveller Law Coalition and the Young Gypsy Traveller Assembly. Like the cabinet secretary, I would also like to welcome the Gypsy Traveller members who are here in the Parliament today, who are watching the debate wherever they may be. It is great news that the cabinet secretary has cleared her diary to be available for future meetings of the cross-party group on Gypsy Travellers. Gloria Buckley, MBE, a traveller herself and a tireless campaigner for the Gypsy Traveller community, said, We are one community, the travellers and our settled neighbours. We've all got something in common. We want our children to be healthy and educated. As many of us in the chamber begin to organise events in support of the great get-together in memory of the late MP Joe Cox, this sentiment that there is more that unites us and divides us is very much on our minds. The huge importance of family to the Gypsy Traveller community is a value that many people in Scotland share. We want our loved ones to be looked after in illness and old age. We want our children to be healthy, safe and educated. It is a sad fact that the settled community can take this much more for granted than our Gypsy Traveller neighbours. The life expectancy of a man from the Gypsy Traveller community is an average 10 years less than the national average. Gypsy Traveller children are more likely than the general population to have no educational qualification. Heartbreakingly, Gypsy and Traveller mothers are 20 times more likely than the rest of the population to have experienced the death of a child. I agree with the cabinet secretary that we need a radical and new approach. This hardship happens against a backdrop of prejudice and discrimination, which is so prevalent that it has been called the last acceptable form of racism. In the most recent social attitudes survey, over a third of Scotland said that they would be unhappy about a close relative marrying a Gypsy Traveller. It is perhaps a little wonder, therefore, that up to 15,000 people do not disclose their Gypsy Traveller identity. The most recent census found that there are over 4,000 Gypsy Travellers in Scotland, but the actual amount is estimated to be between 15,000 and 20,000. Tensions between the settled community and the Gypsy Traveller community can often arise when Gypsy Travellers set up unauthorised settlements, but with insufficient and inadequate sites, the Gypsy Traveller community is left with no real options. In my local area of South Lanarkshire, there are two authorised Gypsy Traveller council sites, but there is a lack of adequate sites across the patch in other neighbouring authorities and, indeed, across Scotland. The on-going work by COSLA and the collaborative approach between the Government and COSLA to improve site provision is very welcome, because even when there is provision, it is not always up to an acceptable standard. In fact, it rarely is. It is good that we have the commitment from COSLA, but, as COSLA has said in its briefing to MSPs, it will take significant levels of investment to bring sites up to standard, and I hope that the commitment to make that happen is there. The Equality and Human Rights Committee heard one Gypsy Traveller describe the squalid conditions of some sites. This individual gave an example where an authorised site was, in his words, overflowing with rats. When he went to the warden seeking help, concerned for the safety of his young family, the warden told him to get a cat. The same person described the transformative difference just one person can make. He then spoke about a new warden who cared, who got things done, who spoke to officials and made things better for the Gypsy Travellers at that site. Although there is a lot of frustration about the lack of progress, it is important to recognise the important contributions of those local authority employees who act as friends and champions for the Gypsy Traveller community. Individuals can make a difference, but we cannot afford to make this a postcode lottery for Gypsy Travellers, where they have better experiences in some local authorities than in others. Action by the Scottish Government and the Parliament is crucial. The recent legislation to improve site standards is welcome, and I spoke in Mary Fee's member's debate about my previous experience representing people from the Gypsy Traveller community in my former work as a town planner. I am grateful that the cabinet secretary has made a commitment to improve the planning system. I know that Mary Fee and others will be looking at amendments, but I hope that we can do that in a collaborative fashion. Legislation is important, but piecemeal change is not enough. There have been multiple inquiries in the past 17 years, but there has been little progress. A national strategy on Gypsy Travellers was recommended by the Equal Opportunities Committee back in 2013, but that did not materialise. I am glad that the Scottish Government has now acted on the independent race equality advisers call for leadership on the issue, and the ministerial working group on Gypsy Travellers has been set up. The Government and the Parliament must work together on the issue. Mary Fee's cross-party group is a positive development, and I am pretty confident that it will not just be a talking shop, because we have had enough of that. The voices are certainly there. I would like to commend the Gypsy Traveller community on their work, and they should feel immense proud for the way that they have organised and campaigned for their communities. With compassion and commitment across Scotland, I believe that real change is possible. I am proud to move the amendment in my name, and I am pleased to give the Scottish Government's motion our full support and the other amendments that we have voted in tonight at decision time. I remind members to use full names. I know that it is a friendly debate, but full names, please, so far anyway. I hope that it remains friendly. Can I call on John Finnie now to speak to a move amendment 12690.2? Mr Finnie, four minutes, please. Here we are again, once again talking about Gypsy Travellers. I do not want to tell you for one second that I do not enjoy the subject, but I worry about aspects of it. I hope that that weirdness will not surface too much in it. It is a weirdness-built frustration. The cabinet secretary said that there is plenty of talk about insufficient action, so I want to be talking about some actions that we can do. I think that it is important that this is Gypsy Roma Traveller history month. The Gypsy Traveller movement is the route and branch part of Scotland, it is the route and branch part of these islands and it is the route and branch part of Europe. I have to say on my wall that I have many mementos. I agree completely and utterly with Mr Finnie, and I think that some of us don't pay due attention to the influence of some Gypsy Travellers from Scotland, not only within these islands or within Europe, but internationally. Bob Dylan was influenced by an Aberdeen Gypsy Traveller, Jeannie Robertson. Not many folk know that. Why is that the case? We would know it if Jeannie Robertson was from some other group. Mr Finnie. I thank the minister for highlighting that. The very limited time that I have, I was going to mention Seamus McPhee, who is an active member of the Gypsy Traveller community. One of his postcards is on my wall. It commemorates the contribution, service and sacrifice of the Gypsy Traveller community during the First World War. It is called canon fodder. There is a wide contribution there, and the Stolly Telling tradition is very important, too. The motion talks about no place for racism in a modern and inclusive Scotland in some people may, over the weekend, have seen shocking footage from the Ukraine of a Nazi group. Actually, adopting the same name as a Nazi group that persecuted Jews in Ukraine during the Second World War, attacking a Roma camp. We at our peril are complacent about these things, certainly with the spread of social media, the situation in Hungary, the famous photograph of the Paris suburbs with the dobbed sign on the end of the building that was to be demolished with a Roma wear. Of course, that has been alluded to by the conduct of the Murray MP. I wish the ministerial working group very well, and there have been plenty of talks. As regards the amendment that I have, which I would like to read out, and that is to insert at the end of the motion and recognise the need for such support. There is undoubtedly support from the Gypsy Traveller community from the Scottish Government to be underpinned by measures that enable the Gypsy Travellers traditional way of life, including the mapping of stopping-off places, and to save an exceptional circumstance that is being made available. Again, in the fairly recent debate that we had, I talked about this, but I have to say that the language is still flawed in a lot of what we talk about—the Government document, the causal document. If we are talking about housing, we are perpetuating the idea that bricks and mortar are the issue. We should be talking about accommodation, and that accommodation may be a traditional stopping-off place. For long, in many of the reports that have been alluded to, people have been told that their health problems will be sorted if you did one thing if you got in a house. That is deeply offensive. If we are really going to throw our weight behind the traditional way of life, I think that we want to get that correct, and accommodation, I would suggest, may be something. There has been a review, and there has been progress, and I know that I will shortly be visiting the site at Newtonmore, where I know that there has been significant progress done, and that is welcomed. The language again regarding stopping-off places, I have used the traditional stopping-off places. I had a look through some of the documents, and here are some of them. Negotiated stopping model, informal stopping places, short-term halting sites, stop-over sites. We are talking about accommodation, and we are talking about reinforcing the commitment that we have to supporting a way of life, and that is about the provision of accommodation sites. I think that we need to change the mindset. I think that this is potential to be a very positive contribution to that debate. I formally move the amendment to my name. Thank you very much, Mr Finnie. I call on Alex Cole-Hamilton, and then we on to the open debate. Four minute speeches in the open debate. Mr Cole-Hamilton, please. Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. I start by thanking the Government for securing today's time and for the Cabinet Secretary's language in what was a very consensual opening remark. I think that we share a very strong sense of common purpose in this regard, and I thank her for it. I also want to put on my record my thanks to my friend and colleague, Mary Fee. I will be a proud member of the CPG alongside her, but she has educated me and schooled me in things that I did not know about gypsy traveller history and rights and the lack and the deprivation of those, so I thank her for those. Most importantly, I want to thank our friends and our colleagues from the Gypsy Traveller community, who are here in the gallery this afternoon. You are very much part of the fabric of our country, and we are very proud to know you. We are very proud to have you here. When we think about the term racism, we often think about anti-EU migrant attacks in the immediate aftermath of Brexit, which were fuelled by the irresponsible rhetoric of papers like the Daily Mail. We think about hostile environment policies, which led to the Windrush scandal. It comes down to the feeling of othering, the fear of the income, the fear of change. In truth, there is a reference. We are all products of a tapestry, a rich tapestry of immigration and movement in people moving around these islands, and it is very much subject to our national identity. We often like to think that we are not like that here in Scotland, but, as David Donaldson said in a very compelling testimony to the Equalities and Human Rights Committee, that racism against the Gypsy Traveller community is the last form of acceptable racism in Scotland. The irony is that Gypsies and Travellers are not in-comers. They have a rich cultural identity, which spans a millennium in this country. Seamus McPhee, who John Finnie referenced earlier, has written an excellent history of the Gypsy Traveller relationship with Scotland, which goes back to the 11th century, when they settled in Scotland and were referred to initially as Tinklers, and then were sometimes mistaken for Spaniards and Egyptians, but were treated with reverence. To the point in 1506, a letter of safe passage was written for the Earl of the Egyptians, as he was known for, for safe passage through Denmark. That was changed quite dramatically in 1541 when we saw the first anti-Gypsy laws passed in this country, when it was suddenly legal to drown or strangle a Gypsy. We talk a lot about hostile environment policies, but that takes the biscuit. Although we are not quite as severe as that now, there are still throwbacks to that time and that prejudice that would permeate our culture. David Donaldson, again, gave a harrowing example of a time when he had sat on a youth forum in Aberdeen, which was an interface with the local authority around planning. The officials and the elected members did not know that he was a traveller, and he asked about rights for travellers and the needs for sites around Aberdeen. He was told by a very senior member of that council that nobody cares about the effing tinks. That is the level of racism that is still at large in our society today. That comes from a political imbalance. It is absolutely true that, by the very nomadic nature of travellers who still shift, they are disenfranchised. They are unlikely to register to vote, so politicians are unlikely to try to appeal to them and more likely to appease the constituents who are concerned about where they are moving to. We have seen an answer to that fail. Some social experiments such as the Bob and Mill, where the community there is a fantastic dynamic community but lived in the worst housing conditions imaginable, where people had to defrost pipes in the winter time. The health inequalities that we have heard a lot about, such as the access to education and the fact that people are still being left behind and that we are not addressing the very particular needs. We have heard the statistics about the social prejudices. It is a protected characteristic that we do not often treat as such, so I am happy to support the Government's motion and all the amendments today. Thank you very much. Thank you, Presiding Officer. It is appropriate that we have set aside time today for this debate in Gypsy Romer Traveller history month. To ask what we can do to improve outcomes for the Gypsy Traveller community, our last census tells us that around 4,200 people in Scotland identify themselves in this group, although people in organisations working with the community believe that figure to be closer to 20,000. Gypsy Travellers in Scotland are a diverse group with a long and distinct history, dating to at least as early as the 12th century, with written records in the community surviving from 1492. Despite that long history, Gypsy Travellers in Scotland have only been legally recognised as a distinct ethnic group since September 2008. Being appropriately recognised and respected as a distinct ethnic group affords members of the community further protection under the Equalities Act 2010, which specifically prohibits discrimination on the basis of protected characteristics, including ethnic origin. We had a session at the Equalities and Human Rights Committee in December, and the evidence that we heard from the Gypsy Traveller community was harrowing and saddening. The discrimination that this marginalised community has to face on a daily basis is a violation of their human rights, and we must make sure that it is stamped out. As we heard, the Scottish Government has set up a ministerial working group. It is now met twice and will report its findings early next year. This report will set out the group's achievements and progress and implement the priorities that it identifies. The group will work to address inequalities in housing, education, health, social services, employment and community cohesion. One of the actions that interested me was the potential work with young people in this year of young people to tackle discriminatory portrayals of the community and the media. The group will also consider how to improve engagement with the Gypsy Traveller community, essential if we are to even think about tackling all the other issues. We often speak about lived experience, consultation and engagement, and it is vital with the community. There is an example of this when Seamus McPhee, who has already been referenced, told our committee about local authority sites. Gypsy Travellers living on sites owned by councils must be provided with secure tenancy agreements, but Seamus raised that point. Gypsy Travellers who live on local authority sites in Scotland tend to be bound by a Scottish secure tenancy agreement, which limits them to 12 weeks a year in which they can travel off site. That is a violation of their right to freedom of movement. If they can only go off the site for 12 weeks a year before forfeiting their tenancy on a local authority site, that is an impairment to their ability to lead their cultural lifestyle, so communication is essential. There is work to be done, and it would be a disservice to Gypsy Travellers all over Scotland if we were to pretend that everything is fine. It was really good to hear the cabinet secretary speak about the progress that she wants to see and we all share that vision. It is also good to see some local authorities with Gypsy Travellers strategies working with young people liaison officers, interagency groups and site improvement plans. However, we need a firm commitment from all local authorities not to wait to do as they are told by the Scottish Government but to take immediate action to support an isolated community that has the worst health outcomes, the most horrific living conditions, disproportionate rates of depression and mental illness and the poorest educational outcomes in our society. In conclusion, I welcome the commitment by the cabinet secretary and the Scottish Government. I think that the amendments from John Finnie, Annie Wells and Monica Lennon are entirely sensible. We need to monitor progress. There should be a mapping of traditional sites and I want to wish Mary Fee good luck on her cross-party group, and I will be there tomorrow. I am delighted to be able to take part in today's debate. I would also like to acknowledge the work for Mary Fee. I was not able to participate in her member's debate, but I was very happy to sit and listen. I congratulate Mary Fee on her very passionate and very positive campaign that she has put forward. Of course, everyone is committed to ensuring equality of opportunity for all in Scotland's Gypsy travellers, who see themselves as particularly a marginalised group. We have heard that already this afternoon. Indeed, many of them see their communities and see themselves as coming from the indigenous Highland travellers, the showmen or the funfair travellers that we see and have become used to, but their history, culture and identity need to be protected and respected. I concur with my colleagues who have already said today that they suffer in health, families and education in all those areas in which they are not given the opportunities. For children who are accessing and obtaining education and employment, those are enormous barriers. Therefore, it is essential that we address the work together, and we try to support to ensure that Gypsy children feel confident and that they do not suffer any further under those. I am very encouraged that the Scottish Government has established a ministerial working group on Gypsy travellers. The group's aim is to ensure that work to get rid of some of those inequalities in housing, in education, in health and in employment. Working together, we can do so much to achieve and results can come forward from that ministerial group. I look forward to seeing what will happen in the not too distant future. A good number of the travellers themselves are actively involved in business. Many of them are successful business individuals with a flourish in entrepreneurial and ownership of organisations, the length and breadth of the country. Indeed, another section of that community becomes successful in the acting and the musician world, in which families have rooted their ethnic and their tot and their childhood and all that culture around them. The entertainment industry has done very well by having many of them participate. Individuals such as the famous Billy Wilesh from Darlington, who has talked about the Appleby horse fair, have seen where tens of thousands of individuals go and tourists come and support that environment. However, there is still a stigma, and many people find that it is something that they want to try and hide, is their roots. We have heard that that happens also in the education system. The biggest stigma that we have to deal with is ensuring that travelling people feel that they are part of that community. As I have said already, many of them have set up their own businesses. Many of them have become very successful in shipyards, in car dealerships, in scrap merchants, in caravan supplies and many others. It was Mr Wilesh who said that, and I quote, we are just business people. We do not just do tarmac, sell beds and windows. We do big business, but we keep quiet about it. As I said, there are many who have done that, who have gone out and shown that they can be entrepreneurs and widen that. However, it is dreadful to think that there is still this unconscious bias towards the travelling community and that harbours against it. I still find it hard to believe that some communities come into conflict with the gypsy travellers and what they are trying to achieve. There can be real opportunities and the opportunities to ensure that there is not a clash of a lifestyle is what we should be looking at. I have witnessed the success of purpose-built sites, for example, in Double Dyches in my own area of Perthson and Ross, that were put there and gave the opportunities, but more sites required to be made, more sites required to be there. In conclusion, I applaud the Scottish Government for what it has done so far to ensure that gypsy travellers are respected and their opportunities are right for their job. They are entitled to life chances, they are entitled to opportunities and they are entitled to respect. I welcome the Scottish Government's commitment to ensuring equality of opportunity for all of Scotland's gypsy travellers, and that commitment includes the creation of a ministerial working group to develop a programme of work to improve prospects and outcomes for the community. Presiding Officer, there is no place in Scotland for the discrimination that our gypsy traveller communities face, and other members have already described it today as the last acceptable form of racism. We no longer tolerate other forms of racist abuse, and we must all challenge discrimination towards the gypsy traveller community whenever we encounter it in this chamber, in our surgeries and in our local communities. I am sure that, as elected members, we all have examples of doing that. I would like to pay tribute to two women, Mary Fee, as others have mentioned, for her passion on the subject, and Christina McKelvie, who I know is gutted about not being able to make today's debate, who has also always raised the issue. As chair of the racial equality cross-party group myself, we held a session in September last year, Presiding Officer, where article 12 made a presentation to us, Michael Moldon and Lynn Tame. We heard to the gypsy traveller community amongst the most marginalised group in Scotland that they are frequently unable to enjoy the human rights that others take for granted. Lynn talked to us about the casual discrimination that has been faced by the gypsy traveller community. I know that Annie Wells has already talked about the TV programme, Big Fat Gypsy Wedding, and the connotations that that brought up, and that was something that Lynn talked to us about. Michael talked to us about bullying that he had experienced at school, and that it still goes on. I think that for any day else that was there at that particular cross-party group, we would have to have a heart of stone not to be moved by what Michael Moldon told us. Diversity and equality training came up in that particular discussion in schools, especially if people were seasonally schooled. There was some discussion on how Amnesty International Scotland's school programme could be used, and development at school resources in partnership with Shoe Raising, the red card. We had a really good discussion at the cross-party group, and I cannot confirm it. I will follow that up, and I will be a member of Mary Fee's group. Speaking about two MSPs who have fought the case for a long time to an ex-colleague in this chamber, Douglas Ross, who has already been mentioned by my colleague Ruth Maguire, was invited to that particular cross-party group session following his remarks that were widely circulated in the media. He did not attend. I would like to put it on record that Adam Tomkins did attend and engaged in the discussion, and I covered this colleague, if he likes, in the spirit of cross-party working. I would like to thank Adam Tomkins for doing that. As we have all said, there is a lot of diversity among the gypsie travel communities in Scotland, with different groups speaking, variety of languages, and holding to distinct customs and traditions. The ministerial working group is taking that on board and will help the challenges that members of those communities continue to face. I realise that I am running out of time, so I want to talk about my own area of North Lanarkshire. I was on the North Lanarkshire website today, and I want to read out what it said. Traditionally, in relation to sites for gypsy traveller communities, traditionally there are two kinds of sites provided for gypsies in travelling community according to the length of stay, transient and long stay. North Lanarkshire Council one time had three sites, Mossend, Annattill and Plains. That gave a combined pitch total of 52. Two sites have since been closed, leaving only one official site at Plains, which are the capacity for 16 pitches. That particular site was long-term stay site and also had facilities for disabled gypsies and travellers. The site has not been in use for several years following low demand and major vendors into the site, which rendered it uninhabitable. A housing needs assessment is currently being undertaken to determine the extent of demand or need for further provision. What that basically says is that there is no provision. I welcome the review in it, and I am asking them to make sure that there is provision as soon as possible. I hope that this working group will help them to do that. I call Angus MacDonald to follow by Alex Rowley. Last December, the Parliament approved the race quality action plan, which strikes at the heart of what we try to do every single day in this place, to ensure that Scotland, as a progressive, inclusive nation, treats all our citizens with equality no matter their race or background. As part of that plan, as we have already heard, the Scottish Government set up the ministerial working group to identify the priorities and enact the change that is required to improve the lives of our gypsy traveller communities. Improvement, however, must be practical, must be tangible and must be a process that identifies a multifaceted approach to ensure that real equality is delivered. Presiding Officer, it is unfortunately true to say that society has a negative attitude towards the gypsy traveller community, the majority of which is based on stereotype, conjecture, misunderstanding and it has to be said downright ignorance. As has been alluded to earlier, what does not help is when certain members of our society are quoted as saying that gypsies are in the word of Douglas Ross MP, a blight on our communities that need dealt with, or that, if he were to become Prime Minister for the day, his top priority would be tougher enforcement of gypsy travellers, rather than focusing on what can be done to improve equality. Thankfully, there is about as much chance of me running the line at the World Cup final as there is of Douglas Ross becoming Prime Minister. However, it remains the fact that that kind of attitude towards gypsy traveller communities creates more barriers than it does help to bring them down. That is an issue that must be addressed in order for that improvement to be made. What are we doing and what can be done to make those improvements? If we look at the example of the Public Petitions Committee in the previous session of Parliament in 2015, Jess Smith from the Travelling Community Petition, the Scottish Parliament regarding the Tinker's Heart, which is the title still used for it, a pattern of quartz stones laid at the crossroads in the Cairndow area of Argyll, which is thought to be over 250 years old and has been used by generations of Scottish travellers as a wedding place and for children to be blessed. The monument, which was in danger of being lost due to years of cattle grazing and disregard by the wealthy landowner, was given a lifeline by Historic Scotland due primarily to Jess Smith's petition and the work of the Public Petitions Committee, but also by the intervention of the local MSP Mike Russell and, subsequently, the culture secretary Fiona Hyslop. I am delighted to say that the Tinker's Heart is now designated a monument of national importance and stands as a reminder of the Gypsy Traveller community's contribution to Scotland's rich cultural heritage. Taking steps to recognise the travelling communities as part of Scotland's cultural heritage and diversity is an important section of the path to equality. It is also important to understand that those people, because their citizens, like the rest of us, have rights and responsibilities too. Access to health and education is a priority, and it is also important that people from the Gypsy Traveller communities are afforded every opportunity to integrate with the communities that they are living in at the time and have the chance to contribute to the already diverse landscape that we have across Scotland. Falkirk Council, for example, has a travelling person site located in my constituency, which I believe that the cabinet secretary visited recently. I visited the site a few years ago, and this is a timely reminder that I am overdue a return visit. CCTV monitors the site and a travelling person's officer is based there Monday to Friday, 9 to 5, and each of the 15 pitches has access to a shale and washing and toilet facilities. As part of the process, the progress report and guidance on minimum site standards and site tenants' core rights and responsibilities were published, as we have heard last month, which included a survey undertaken between August 2017 and March 2018. At the time that the survey was carried out, Falkirk was one of only two self-assessments that showed compliance to the standards at the time. However, there are still improvements that can be made, and taking on board the points in the executive summary of the report, more can and should be carried out to ensure that the welfare of tenants on those sites are taken into consideration, be it safety or that people are treated fairly and with respect. That is all part of ensuring that improvements are made to the standard that we would all expect as people. Presiding Officer, I welcome this debate in the Parliament today on improving the lives of Scotland's gypsy travellers. Positive steps have been taken to recognise the contribution that gypsy travellers make and have made to Scotland. However, as has been said by many in here today, there is much more that needs to be done at every level of government. I would like to recognise the work of my colleague Mary Fee on this issue, following her member's debate a few weeks ago celebrating Scotland's gypsy traveller community. She has worked to set up a cross-party group on the Scottish Gypsy Travellers, which will have its first meeting tomorrow, and that is to be welcomed. That will provide a forum to discuss issues that are faced by the community and, hopefully, to make recommendations felt necessary for action. It is estimated that there are between 15,000 and 20,000 gypsy travellers in Scotland, and the community has made a rich social and cultural contribution to our society. Much more work is needed to improve the lives of gypsy travellers, as has been said today. It is clear from some of the statistics that Mary Fee's member's debate highlighted that inequality is being faced by the community. It is shocking that male life expectancy in the gypsy traveller community is 55 years, 12 years shorter than the average across Scotland. We know that this inequality is rooted in a variety of issues, including the provision of adequate accommodation and access to public health services. Accommodation and health services are human rights, and gaining access to them should not be hindered by your background. Clearly, work is needed to be done to overcome the barriers that gypsy travellers face in getting the services that they need. Mr Allan Seeth, a planning adviser, has highlighted the importance for gypsy travellers to be in control of their land and their homes and emphasises the need to aid the gypsy traveller community with a focus on design, layout and greater site provision, instead of enforcement and eviction. He states a more positive outlook in the planning system with robust policies that would assist, along with well-informed housing needs and demand assessment. We must also recognise the simple fact that gypsy travellers are discriminated against in Scotland, and we should not attempt to sweep the issue under the carpet. Everyone will have heard inaccurate stereotypes of gypsy travellers, and for some reason that is almost tolerated where other forms of racism are not. However, we must recognise that for what it is. It is prejudice, pure and simple. I was shocked to see the survey that Monica Lennon mentioned in social attitudes that suggests that 31 per cent of people would be unhappy or very unhappy if a close relative was to marry a gypsy traveller, and that 35 per cent said that a gypsy traveller would be unsuitable as a primary school teacher. It is clear that more work is needed to change those attitudes. It is encouraging to see the Parliament come together to unite in the view that there is no place for any form of racism in modern and inclusive Scotland. I think that the commitment that we have heard from the Scottish Government of direct engagement with the gypsy traveller community is the right step to take, and hopefully we can see a more joined-up Government to address the many issues that we have heard about here today. Thank you very much, and I call David Torrance. We are followed by John Mason. I welcome the Scottish Government's debate this afternoon for allowing us to discuss the issues that have been faced by Scotland's gypsy traveller community. I also welcome the establishment of a ministerial working group on Gypsy Travers as a positive step in creating a more inclusive Scotland. Scotland has one of the best human rights records in the world. Scotland remains the best current in Europe for LGBTI plus equality in human rights. Our fairer Scotland action plan sets unprecedented measures to tackle child poverty. A weekly safe strategy begins to evolve deep into the best methods in which to eradicate violence and discrimination against women and girls. A slow transition of some social security powers from reserved to devolved bars has allowed the Scottish Government to finally have a say over this matter. The Scottish Government has been able to work closely with disabled groups to deliver Scotland's commitment to UN Convention on Rights of Persons with Disabilities, and that is all relevant. Two weeks ago in the chamber I spoke of a small but deeply important part of Scotland's population. I have worked closely with Scotland's gypsy traveller community during my time on the Public Petitions Committee in the last parliamentary session, and on the Caughties on Human Rights Committee this session. I am proud of the work that the committees have done for the Gypsy Travers community, particularly for those who gave evidence to protect and preserve the hearts of courts in Argyll and Bute, known locally as the Tinker's Heart, ancient stones are integral part of Scotland's history and culture. A lot of this case is just one success and a sea of several challenges. When the Caughties Committee had evidence from some members of the Gypsy Travers community in December, we are disappointed to hear that while the Scottish Government and the Scottish Society in general have made some progress in rhetoric, this is not being translated in practice. Reports from previous parliamentary sessions and committee meetings support this trend. In some areas very little has changed. In other areas, discrimination, marginalisation and hardship has increased. There has to be a fundamental gap in Scotland's human rights and equality reputation. We currently have enshrined in our law provisions for every member of the Scottish Society.  The Gypsy Travers community, it seems, have not been benefiting from our human rights and equality provisions, despite the fact that we as a society are making progress to tackle hate crime and discrimination on a wider scale. In this sense, we as a country are failing our Gypsy Travers communities. Issues faced by the Gypsy Travers community are well, we are actually in very well high documented. Access to appropriate healthcare is a major indicator of the depth of discrimination that these communities face. Those who lead a nomadic life are often denied access to healthcare by GPs, and those who are given up with nomadism and have moved into permanent housing continue to face challenges in registering for a GPs due to stigma. Mental health services, in particular, are restricted. Even more suicide rates among statutory travelling men are disproportionately high. This is not helped by restricted access to education, employment and housing. The community also faces prejudice regarding those accessible sites, including permanent transit or temporary sites. Institutionalised racism has a huge role to play in this regard, coupled with no reference to Gypsy Travers communities in the planning process. One young person who gave evidence to a committee referred to an incident in which their camp in Kinlochranach grounds integral to the Gypsy Travers country was shut down and is now illegal to camp on. In regards to education, young Gypsy Travers are forced to hide their ethnicity for fear of discrimination, leading some to call for a strong affirmative action to challenge institutionalised racism, as well as transitional phases for members of the Gypsy Travers community to join mainstream educational facilities. To reiterate my colleague and convener of the Colleys and Human Rights Committee, Christine McElwey, we need to learn from the past to form our actions in the future. I very much hope that the Ministry of Work and Group on Gypsy Travers will begin to address some of the challenges facing the community. Amesden International's report found that strength and political leadership was required at both national and local level to bridge regard between local communities, public HHSs and local authorities. That is a constant incident with a committee's evidence that is heard from members of the Gypsy Travers community. We need to better appreciate the Gypsy Travers history and culture as an asset and resource to Scotland's economy and society, and we need to embrace European and international recommendations so that we can create a truly exclusive Scotland for everyone. I call John Mason to be followed by Stuart Sears and Mr Mason, please. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I have to say that I am very pleased to take part in today's debate. Although I am no longer on the committee that deals with the subject, I previously was on the Equal Opportunities Committee when we produced the report on where Gypsy Travers live in 2013. I was just looking back at the summary of that report and it does not make any more pleasant reading now than it did then. At that time, we said that we were frustrated at the lack of progress in ensuring proper education, health and especially accommodation for the community, and I fear that progress has continued to be slow. There were some hard-hitting quotes in that report, not least from the committee convener at that time, Mary Fee. I think that she spoke for the whole committee when she said that we visited sites across Scotland and were appalled at some of the squalid conditions that were endured by tenants who paid rent and council tax for substandard services. There was also a quote from the Scottish Human Rights Commission, describing discrimination against gypsy travellers as the last bastion of respectable racism. Of course, it is not respectable or acceptable, but it is seen as acceptable in some circles, including parts of the media. We have a number of minority groups in Scotland who are discriminated against or at least disadvantaged. Some groups are even quite large, but I remain convinced that gypsy travellers are unusual in being such a small and disadvantaged group who are still openly discriminated against. It is good that, since then, the ministerial working group has been set up, as I know it was our feeling then that we needed strong government leadership, and not just to leave it to local government when it came to new site provision and other requirements. Mary Fee would commend John Finnie and others who have pursued this matter over the years and will not let it go. We felt that the pressure on some local councils was such that it really needed Scottish Government leadership to support local authorities and elected representatives. I am convinced that we all have a responsibility to speak out when we come up against racist remarks. I accept that terminology can vary, and some people use words that we would not be comfortable with out of habit rather than evil intent. However, when it comes to traditional stopping places that might be unapproved or unauthorised, it is certainly not helpful to say that they are illegal. The word illegal can be used very loosely at times, and it can carry a stigma with it, which I think is deliberately damaging. Sometimes we, as individuals, need to intervene and say something about words that are being used. Just a few weeks ago, I was sitting in a restaurant table in Edinburgh and heard racist remarks at the next table. That was not actually about gypsy travellers but about another racial group. I just felt that I could not sit there and let it go, but I really had to say something. In my case, I did not find that particularly easy, and I was not sure what reaction I was going to get from the next table. However, as it turned out, we had a reasonably civilised discussion. So all of us can do our bit in attempting to change attitudes. Just this afternoon, there were young people leading the time for reflection and reminding us not to let prejudice go unchallenged. It is possibly easier here in Parliament where I think that we have broad agreement on this subject. However, it can be difficult in a situation outside if you find yourself in a group of people who are being openly racist. So I commend members who are leading the progress on this. I am glad that the Government is taking it seriously and that it has the support of many of us on the back benches who are not directly involved ourselves. I call Stuart Stevenson. Last week, in the open debate, we moved, obviously, to closing speeches. That is a warning to anyone who is not in the chamber who should be paying attention. Mr Stevenson. Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I think that Cole Hamilton referred to the travellers and gypsy community as being disengaged from the political process. In the 1995 Perth and Kinross by-election, which brought Rosanna Cunningham, her parliamentary debut when she won that from the Tories, one of the things that I was given to do as a campaigner in that by-election was to go and talk to the travellers who were just outside Milner thought. I found a group of very well-engaged people who had some very focused and relevant questions to ask of the person who had called their door to ask for their vote. We had an animated discussion followed, I may say, by a very welcome cup of tea and a biscuit. I am sure that while I did meet a Conservative voter among that group, I used the singular words. I think that the rest of them were quite quick. I think that he will, if I'm not mistaken. I'm very grateful to the member for giving way. I wasn't trying to suggest that the gypsy traveller community are not engaged politically. The inference is among the political classes that they're not engaged politically, so the politicians don't try to reach out to them. I hope that, between us, we've made the point that, at our peril, do we neglect the involvement of anyone in our society, including the gypsy and travelling community? Of course, as my name is Stuart, it would be perilous for me to be disconnected, because, of course, when my father was a GP and the travellers used to come for the berries and then later in the year for the Tattiehaukin, there were three names that came to the door, the McPhees, the Macalindons and, of course, the Stuart's, who were a well-established Scots travelling family. I have a whin of people in my family called Stuart's, and I have McPhees in my family as well. I don't know if they were travellers in either case, but I certainly can't disregard the possibility. The key thing, of course, is that those people exhibited that we should tack tent of in particular. Those people were very self-sufficient. They could teach us a lot about how to make the most of their circumstances and their attributes. The rest of us often lie back. Those who travel and seek work and success where they can find it are much stronger people in certain ways than we are. Kevin Stewart made reference to Jeanne Robertson. I, of course, in turn, will instead make reference to Belle Stewart from Blair Gowrie, who is a very well-known Scots folk singer from a travelling family. Just to illustrate how prejudice works in rather curious and irrational ways, she, in the early 1960s, went to the Sidmouth festival to sing at the invitation of the Sidmouth festival. Among the people attending there were new age travellers, not travellers in the traditional sense at all. They didn't believe that Belle Stewart could possibly be a traveller because she was far too clean. Isn't that another example of the kind of prejudice that was embedded in the people that she met there? Belle Stewart's biography was written by her daughter and absolutely captures the travelling spirit and the spirit of Belle Stewart. It was called Queen Among the Heather, Presiding Officer. Thank you very much, Mr Stevenson. I now call on John Fiddie to close to the Green Party. Four minutes, please, Mr Fiddie. Thank you, Presiding Officer. It has been a very productive debate. Unless there be any debate, I absolutely do not doubt the commitment to the ministerial group in relation to this. I think that they are displaying leadership and that is welcome, as is my colleague Mary Fee with the cross-party group. I, like others, you are going to have a big room tomorrow, Mary Fee, because I think that you are going to have a good attendance. Plenty of talk, insufficient accent, indeed not words, radical new approach. Radical new approach is what I would like to see. I am grateful to my colleague John Mason for mentioning the traditional stopping off places. If we are embracing the issue of the lifestyle and genuinely lending our support to a travelling lifestyle, that will need to be addressed. I have talked many times about what might be seen as the tension between local and central government, central government not wishing to tread on the toes of the local authorities who have responsibility for planning. The issue of permitted development does not seem to be a big issue in agriculture, but that says a lot about who is putting the plans into practice. I think that we must listen to voices. In relation to the women's voices, I am delighted to hear that MECOP is getting that money. MECOP does a lot of tremendously good work. There were great assistance on a previous occasion when I was on the Equal Opportunities Committee. I know the work that they do in North Argyll in my constituency. Can I say something that might be seen as strange and controversial? Can we involve men, please? It is my experience, and it is certainly the experience of the witnesses that we heard from them. I am delighted that David Orlson is now involved. There was no shortage of strong women with very well-informed opinions. When I go and visit sites—by the very nature, maybe when I go—I do not see many men. We need to get everyone involved. I think that that is important. In relation to the amendments in the short time that I have, I think that it is entirely reasonable—anyway else—one about measurable indicators. I am not a great one for statistics. I think that we can manipulate statistics to say what we want. What I am interested in is things like quality of life, which is not so easily measurable, and that will cover things like life expectancy. Life expectancy is something that greatly affects all impoverished communities. The social attitudes situation is important, and it is, of course, about education. Something that I particularly like hearing was flexible alternative to school-based learning. Absolutely. If you are out and about with your family and the countryside as travellers, that is a tremendous education for people. The idea that it is all about academic achievement is deeply flawed. Monica Lennon talked about a number of groups that have touched on MECOP. I also want to mention article 12, and a lot of very powerful young women in there, and Lynn Tammie's work with that. Alex Cole-Hamilton used a phrase, hostile environment policy. That was not specifically—although it was meant to encompass, I am sure, relating to the Gypsy Traveller community—but that is entirely what, of course, they have faced all these years. I have said once before—I remember meeting a senior official once—about an issue with accommodation, shall we say, for the Gypsy Traveller community. The business was contracted very officially. On my departure, he put a sort of paternal hand in my shoulder and twisted it in my ear. There are no votes in this for you, John. That is what this shouldn't be about. We should be doing things because they are right. I was particularly taken by something that Monica Lennon said in relation to awarding. Things changed when awarding who cared was on the scene. I don't doubt that anyone in here says the care about the Gypsy Traveller community. Of course, how we evidence that care is by our actions. I am very happy to support the amendments from other people. I hope that the very nature of our engagement in this debate and, indeed, in previous debates, will be indicative of how we go ahead, and that is together to try to improve things. I am grateful to have the opportunity to close this afternoon's debate on behalf of Scottish Labour, to celebrate the contribution of Scotland's Gypsy Traveller community to our nation's shared history. I, too, would like to welcome the Gypsy Travellers to the gallery today. I hope that you have not only enjoyed this debate, but that you have taken heart from the commitment that has been demonstrated today by all of us. We have heard a range of contributions from across the chamber this afternoon, and I would like to briefly reflect some of those in my closing remarks. I apologise if I miss anyone out. John Finnie rightly highlighted the issue of stopping places, an issue that is crucial for Gypsy Travellers and their lifestyles, and I, too, share John Finnie's weariness at lack of progress. David Torrance spoke about the tinker's heart, as did Angus MacDonald. David Torrance also spoke of the lack of human rights that the community experiences. Alex Rowley spoke about health inequalities and the lack of access to support and care, and Alex Rowley also spoke of the key importance that planning can play. Alex Cole-Hamilton spoke of Seamus McPhee and the work that he has done to bring alive Gypsy Travellers' history through his stories and his art. Gail Ross spoke of the horrific living conditions that Gypsy Travellers endure, and I think that very few of us fully understand just how horrific those living conditions are, unless we have actually seen them. John Mason highlighted some of the findings of the 2013 report, when we were both part of the Equalities Committee. I would like to say to the chamber that I appreciated all the work that John Mason did when I was convener of that committee. John Mason was a powerful advocate on behalf of the Gypsy Traveller community. It is right that we recognise and celebrate the rich culture of the Gypsy Traveller community. In my recent members' debate, we heard contributions from across this chamber celebrating that unique history, the culture and the lifestyle. This Parliament came together on that day to support the community, and it has done so again today. It is important that across this Parliament we work constructively with one another to further improve the lived experiences of Gypsy Travellers across Scotland. There is so much work to be done. I know that the cabinet secretary is a dedicated and committed advocate for the Gypsy Traveller community. I, too, welcome the establishment of the Scottish Government Ministerial Working Group on Gypsy Travellers. I welcomed the cabinet secretary's opening remarks and her commitment that there will be action, not more warm words. The establishment of the Gypsy Traveller women's voices project will be a valuable asset, as will the continuing work of David Donaldson and the Gypsy Traveller Assembly. I also welcomed the update from the cabinet secretary on the meetings of the ministerial working group. I look forward to establishing a close working relationship when the cross-party group is formed tomorrow. During the first session of the reconvened Scottish Parliament back in 2001, the Equal Opportunities Committee held an inquiry into Gypsy Travellers and public sector policies in Scotland. Discussing the 2001 report, young Gypsy Traveller activist David Donaldson stated that, over the last 17 years, nothing has changed. We would rightly not accept such a lack of action and lack of progress for any other minority ethnic group in Scotland. I accept that some progress has been made. Areas of good practice exist around inclusion in education for Gypsy Traveller children, and some progress has been made in health records. However, without building and developing that progress, we risk either standing still or losing momentum. That is what frustrates the community. In coming to a close, it is right that we recognise and celebrate the rich and vibrant contribution of the Gypsy Traveller community in Scotland. I am glad that, tomorrow afternoon, I will convene the first meeting of this Parliament's cross-party group on Gypsy Travellers. I am glad that the cabinet secretary has expressed her personal commitment to improving the lives of the Gypsy Traveller community. We must not and cannot be complacent. The community does not need rhetoric, but it needs action. It is time for the Scottish Government to show real leadership, and it must now take the opportunity to publish its long overdue national strategy for Gypsy Travellers and begin close engagement with the community, working tangibly to improve the lives of Gypsy Travellers across Scotland. Thank you very much. I imagine a call on Jamie Greene to close for the Conservative Party. Thank you, Presiding Officer. Rhetoric, not action, that is the call from Mary Fee. In what wise words can I add my voice to those? I would like to commend Mary Fee for establishing the cross-party group. It is very hard work running a cross-party group, trust me, but it is very rewarding as well, especially when you get cross-party consensus. I would also like to open my comments with some of the words of the cabinet secretary when she opened today's debate. She used phrases like, there has been a lot of talk and not a lot of action, and phrases like, it's not good enough. This has to be about deeds, not words. The status quo is not an option. How true, Presiding Officer, on this subject? There is no denying that there are a plethora of issues that have faced the Traveller community for a very long time in this country, and it is right that we use our parliamentary time to look at some of these, I think, quite depressing failures, but let us also take this opportunity to celebrate the Gypsy Traveller community, their history, their culture, their traditions, and their historic place in Scotland. As Annie Wells and Alex Cole-Hamilton said, this is a history that goes back hundreds, if not thousands of years in our lands. Yes, there are issues and I will go into some of them, but let us also merge from this debate with a positive view of the future for this community. As Alexander Stewart said in his speech, let us celebrate the great sense of entrepreneurialism and pride in their traditions that exist in this community, a community that is as diverse as any other. I said before many times in debates in this chamber, we must take the public with us. It would be remiss of us to have a debate about Gypsy Travellers and ignore some of the root causes of so much of the disagreement and apathy. Apathy amongst local councils to deal with the issue of sites, apathy amongst the settled communities with often misinformed views, born out of prejudice or bad experiences or poor community relations or inherent prejudice, and on occasion perhaps born out of a mutually negative lack of understanding between the needs and the views of both sides of many of these difficult arguments. Today's debate has thrown light on a number of the day-to-day issues that affects Gypsy Travellers. I would like to touch on some of them specifically. On health, figures reveal that 38 per cent of Gypsy Travellers had long-term illnesses compared to just 26 per cent of the rest of the population. It is frequently reported that Gypsy Traveller men and women lived 10 and 12 years less respectively than the general population. That is a disgrace. Can I point to the great work of Pavie Point, which is an Irish NGO, that also did some studies into that community and found that 11 per cent of Traveller deaths in Ireland were attributed to suicide? The suicide rate for Travellers in Ireland is six or seven times higher than that in the settled community. I do not know the figure in Scotland, but I suspect that it is not great either. The question is, why is this the case, and what are we going to do to address that? On education, there has been a lot of discussion around that. We know that Gypsy Traveller children achieve lower educational attainment compared to the national trend. SRM estimates put it at around 20 per cent of Gypsy Traveller children of secondary school age attend school regularly. It is perhaps likely that they suffer the lowest attainment of any minority community in Scotland. However, there are themes connecting the barriers to education to their results, and they include a number of issues that we should discuss, perhaps even controversially, around enforced mobility and interrupted learning. Interrupted learning is an issue that has to be addressed. Anyone who was brought up in a military home will know how interruption and continuous movement from one place to another have the effect that that has on learning. However, what are we doing to fix that? What flexibility is in the education system to cater for that lifestyle? We do not talk enough about excessive exclusions from school, or we do not talk enough about inadequate school responses to bullying by students, by their parents and, perhaps even on occasion, teachers simply turning a blind eye to harassment. The list goes on. The lack of validation of Gypsy culture in our schools, the limited relevance of the curriculum to many of them, and even teachers' low expectations. How sad is that? Let me also talk about justice. There are disproportionate levels of antisocial behaviour orders against Gypsies and travellers. There are high uses of remand in custody, and there is real cultural dislocation within the prism service. What are we doing to address those issues? Perhaps we should talk about the elephant in the room. Research by Amnesty International found that the Gypsy traveller community received disproportionate levels of media coverage, of which more than half was entirely negative. Much of that discussion is around the issue of sites, and we have debates that I welcome the commitment from the Government to address issues around guidance and standards. If I could point towards that specific subject and the Green amendment today, reading the amendment, which I have absolutely simply with its positive intentions, in our view, it lacks some clarity. It references the mapping of all stopping places and making those available. My problem with that is that it does not sound like a coordinated strategy for providing suitable and adequate sites. For that reason, we are perhaps unable to support that amendment, but I would be happy to give way to Mr Finnie. I am grateful for the member giving way, particularly given his concluding comment there. It is purposely meant to be a direction of travel rather than prescriptive. That is not legislation that we are talking about. It is a suggestion to the Government to move forward in this consensual way. That is the basis of the amendment. Jamie Greene I appreciate that further clarification. I think that perhaps if the wording was geared to provide a co-ordinated approach to providing adequate and suitable sites, rather than just that all stopping places must be made available, there are many stopping sites that are simply inadequate in our view. For that reason, that is why I bring it up. Perhaps I could close with some other commentary around that. The debate has been peppered with phrases around race and ethnicity, not lifestyle choices, and I am pleased by that. That is the key. We are discussing one of Scotland's ethnic communities. The debate should reflect that. They have not only been treated unfairly in the past but, in many respects, are still being treated unfairly. I have said before that prejudice is borne out of fear, but fear can only be overcome by understanding and mutual respect. Understanding comes through education and by leadership and, through action, not just warm words or sympathetic debates but top-down Government policy, which filters its way through Government directorates, policing, NHS, social services, our education system and even down to local authorities. It is time to have a frank, sensible and realistic debate about some of those issues. History has repeated itself far too often for far too long when it comes to the Gypsy Traveller community, so I say less words and more action, please. I thank all members for their thoughtful and insightful contributions to this afternoon's debate. I am very glad that it has been consensual and very positive, too, because that demonstrates that, as a Parliament and indeed as a country, I hope that we are committed to working together to improve the lives of Scotland's Gypsy Travellers. I want to put in record, Presiding Officer, that I will be supporting all amendments that are tabled by the Labour Party, the Conservatives and, indeed, Mr Finnie today. I have already answered in previous parliamentary questions how we would take forward the detail of those suggestions. Many members have spoken passionately about Gypsy Travellers that they have met or worked with, either in their constituencies or as members of committees. Many members have spoken passionately about the personal impact that is had on them when they have had the opportunity to listen to the personal testimonies of people directly from the community. For myself, when I have listened to those experiences and testimonies, they have been jaw-dropping and eye-opening in terms of the day-to-day challenges faced by individuals and the community collectively. Members such as Annie Wells, Alex Cole-Hamilton and many other members have spoken very powerfully about the need to celebrate Gypsy Traveller heritage and culture. Indeed, it is John Finnie who said that Gypsy Traveller heritage is part of our country and part of Europe, both Root and Branch. Angus MacDonald rightly paid tribute to the work to recognise the tinker's heart as a national monument of national importance. We heard from Stuart Stevenson, his love of the folk singer, Bell Stewart. I have been particularly struck by the work of Damian Labasse, who has been writing about his journey to reconnect with his own Traveller roots. He is on record saying that, from the highlands to the border, Scotland has a Gypsy history that has yet to be recognised. That is something that we will work very hard to change. He also explores that perhaps his own journey will solve the bizarre contradiction of Britain's love affair with caravanning, camping and glamping, and yet it has a hatred of those who were born to this life and who largely inspired its adoption as a non-Gypsy pastime. As one Scottish Gypsy Traveller put it, there are 80,000 members of the caravan club, but I am not allowed to travel. Picking up on the contributions from members this afternoon, Monica Lennon and others spoke about the need to improve both the quality and quantity of sites. Fulton MacGregor and Alexander Stewart spoke very powerfully about the need to establish more sites. While decisions about the provision of Gypsy Traveller sites are made at local level, they should be based on, yes, those with local knowledge, yes, those with local accountability, but they also need to be based on local need. The issues that Alec Rowley touched upon around local housing strategies and housing demand needs assessments need to be addressed, and we very much look forward to taking forward that in our joint work and our partnership with COSLA as well. I have very much taken board for what John Finnie was saying in terms of language and also in the need to be reaching out into the men within the community. His personal reflections are indeed something that I have reflected upon in terms of more engagement with the community that I have indeed had more engagement with women as opposed to the men in the community, but there is some work that is imminent, particularly around some of the issues around planning, where some of the men in the community are very keen to work with the Scottish Government. I also take on board John Finnie's point about language and that perhaps there is a need to be talking more about accommodation and not housing. Of course, in terms of those issues, we will work hand in glove with the community, but I suggest that, in our work in striving for practical solutions and practical actions, it is important that we look at specific suggestions, whether that is around informal halting stocks or the negotiated stocks, which is some very interesting work that is going on south of the border in Leeds. By negotiating stopping that, it describes an agreement reached between a local authority and members of the Gypsy Traveller community. My officials, along with members of the community, are going to investigate this very practical solution in Leeds this week. Other members have mentioned the issue about site standards. As a Government, we have made our position crystal clear. Site standards are not consistently good enough. We were very proactive in making reviews known. The Minister for Housing has, indeed, written to local authorities and registered social landlords. We have made clear that standards are indeed a minimum and that everyone in Scotland has the right to expect accommodation. That is of a good standard. That includes our Gypsy Traveller community. No thanks just now. We have published a report, and that is now a matter for the Scottish housing regular. The time that I have left, I want to touch briefly on education. I have seen some excellent examples of flexible learning opportunities, for example the Gypsy Traveller education group in Larkhall, which enables young Gypsy Travellers to get the support that they need to reach their full potential. I am a strong advocate for developing Scotland's young workforce because therein lies the route to flexible learning opportunities that can take young people into apprenticeship, into further or higher education or into the world of work or into the world of self-employment. That flexibility, that ability to have non-school-based education opportunities, already exists in our education system. We just have to find better ways to make it happen more consistently across the country. I am also conscious that many members have spoken very powerfully about health inequalities that exist within the community as well. There has been some progress since 2012. We have seen the publication of leaflets to inform the community of their rights to register with the GP. I know that NHS 24 has done a lot of work in terms of awareness-raising in terms of those who will be trying to work with the community on an out-of-hours basis, but there is absolutely no doubt about it. Let me be crystal clear that we need to do much more to address the stark health inequalities and the differences in life expectancy among others, because it is the fear of discrimination and actual discrimination that prevents the Gypsy Traveller community from accessing essential public services that have contributed to poor outcomes. In the few seconds that I have left, I want to take the opportunity to take full advantage of the debate being on Government time, which means that, as we approach decision time, the chamber is full and everybody is here and in their seats. I deliberately want to end the debate where we all started. That is by saying on behalf, I hope, of the entire chamber to the members of the Gypsy Traveller community that are here with us today, but also those members who live the length and breadth of Scotland, that this indeed is your Parliament. You have every right to be here. Like all citizens of Scotland, you have every right to expect the very highest standards of representation. You have every right to expect every parliamentarian here today and every councillor to work together. Most of all, you have every right to expect that those of us who occupy public office and public service to work with you to ensure that we end the discrimination and disadvantage, to ensure that your children have every chance and to ensure that your elders are cared for and to ensure that your voices are heard. Thank you very much, and that concludes our debate on improving the lives of Scotland's Gypsy Travellers. We turn now to decision time. There are four questions. The first question is that amendment 12690.1, in the name of Annie Wells, which seeks to amend motion 12690, in the name of Angela Constance, on improving the lives of Scotland's Gypsy Travellers, be agreed? Are we all agreed? We are agreed. The next question is that amendment 12690.3, in the name of Monica Lennon, which seeks to amend the motion in the name of Angela Constance, be agreed? Are we all agreed? We are agreed. The next question is that amendment 12690.2, in the name of John Finnie, which seeks to amend the motion in the name of Angela Constance, be agreed? Are we all agreed? We are not agreed. We will move to our division. Members, be cast their votes now. The result of the vote on amendment 12690.2, in the name of John Finnie, is yes, 76, no, 27. There were no abstentions. The amendment is, therefore, agreed. The final question is that motion 12690, in the name of Angela Constance, as amended, on improving the lives of Scotland's Gypsy Travellers, be agreed? Are we all agreed? We are agreed. Thank you. That concludes decision time. We will now move on to members' business, in the name of Maurice Corry on Orkambi, but we will just take a few moments for the members and for the minister to change seats.


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