Good afternoon everybody I'm Tommy O'Brien coming to you live from TF9 headquarters in St. Petersburg, Florida, 2 p.m. Eastern time on Tuesday, two hours left to go on the trading day and we got a bounce going on in the market off of the lows. We got the S&Ps right now up three points trading at 29.46, NASDAQ negative by 48, a big portion of that NASDAQ with Alphabet, Google last night down pretty dramatically today as they missed on earnings and the Dow up 27 points right now trading $26,581, dollar index struggling a bit today off 381 ticks trading at 97.200, we got gold up $4.1286 on the dot and oil up 57 cents trading at 64.07, notes and bonds, higher price, lower yield, 10-year note up 7 ticks, 123.21, 30-year bond up 17 ticks, $147.15, let's start it off, we'll go through the indices, we'll start it off with the Dow, so lows made right as Tom and I got off the program at about 11 a.m. in the Dow, $26,399, we're up now more than 150 points from that level and right where we were kind of coming into about 8 a.m. this morning, $26,561, NASDAQ 100, quite an acceleration to the downside and a rebound as well, lows made just after 11 a.m. of 77.40, we're now up a solid 60-plus points in the NASDAQ 100, 78.03, keeping in mind the big giant today, Apple, after the Bell, 4.30 p.m. Eastern time, two and a half hours from right now, Tom will be on the air live for that, S&P's, we're now above where we were earlier this morning and we back that up, you can see we plunge all the way in the S&P's to 29.26, we're now up a solid 20 S&P points, quite a number. Gold contract, volatility as well, we're up there at 12.88, we trade down to about 12.82, nearing the middle of that range, 12.85, 88, crude oil, both directions as well, quite a trade, from about 2 a.m., you go from 63.37, all the way up to 64.80, 64.75, almost $1.50 to the upside, you give it all back from 8.50 in the morning until about 11 a.m., and then we're right in the middle of that range at 64.03, and Euro-US dollar currently trading 1.1219. Checking in on two of the stocks, there is Apple, we'll pull up the chart, Apple, get it into a five minute chart, Apple right now down about 1.7%, what I had up there, the expected move coming into that earnings, $9.50, we'll see, trading at 2.0113, and to pull it up, Alphabet, Google, still down 8% or 100 bucks. Stay tuned, folks, Steve Rhodes right now, Tom O'Brien, live from 3 till 5, have a great Tuesday.


What's up everybody? Jayz here with jasperjasebeaks.com. So this is a 1920 Panini National Chargers basketball just sold out It is a one-box break five random players each number seven So the way it works guys is early bird as well guys you buy one of the first 30 spots in the break to get Entered a winner free spot in the break So this is a one-box break of 1920 NT basketball hobby 353 players on the checklist with hits. We will make the list down to 350 and Again, you get five random players from that list with each spot you buy So we're gonna use the same dice roller for the randomizer Here for the early bird customers, and then we're gonna quadruple or sorry times your names by five on this list to match up This list here, so let's do the randomizer here for the early bird first Let's roll the dice and we got a one and a four for five times one two three four and five Guy there you go after five times one and a four She just won a free spot man. Congratulations Put you in here Now I'm gonna copy So five times So that's one two three four and five So there you go and It should be 350. Let's hope it matches five times one Yeah, two three Four and it was a five Christopher Dumbest even All right five times here players one two three four and five All right guys, so I'm gonna just show you guys the way the list came out first and then I'm gonna Alpha ties back customer name So it's like 350 for all the way down. I guess it's gonna take too long All right, and I'll go through the players. I won't say every single name guys, but I'll just give you a Little block. So there you go right there Aaron with your couple spots you got you got Rhonda Hollis Jefferson all the way down to develop McGee and in there Notice wise you got bull bull You got Larry bird dr. J and other players in there Anthony pick it With your one spot you got Ray Allen Jaylen Brown Tim Duncan Somalajik and Kemba Walker Anthony are From Jamal Mashburn Alan Iverson Trace McGregor Nick Van Exo and PJ Tucker Anthony T Tyler hero Louis down here Bob McAduke Grant Williams and Batman DeBio Austin Darian Fox Tidero Malik Monk Keldon Johnson George Irving Gervins are Brandon you have Jerry West Rodham and Thible fall and Bruno Fernando Charles you have Jackson Hayes Mark turns Davis Luke Walden to Clint Capella Chris from Kendrick Nunn down to Anthony Davis and in there you have CJ McCullum in there J.J. Barrera Karambas Jalen Noyesaruki Christopher you got line of Hollins Frank Hayward Joanne Howard and Tyrone Lou Christopher you have Kam Reddick down to Rudy go bear and in there you have look at Doncha Shaquille O'Neal and the Admiral David Robinson Dan Middleton Bob Lainer Nate Thurman and his cancer Peter Washington, Jr. Daniel Chan subbonus Harris little Barnes Jason Williams Daniel Graham Yeah, they can be multiple down to Cattino Mobley in there. You also have Kyle Guy James Harden Jason Tatum Daniel 10 Sam Jones down to Keras Leverts and in there you have Zach Levine drew holiday Tony Parker Jordan Bone Douglas BJ Armstrong Chauncey Billups Gregory Lang Jared Colver down to Valentunas Gregory Darby From Jalen Rose down to Justin right for me in there. You got Kevin Durant. You got Clay Thompson The Angela Russell James Worthy Brandon Ingram as well. God you have a pretty big list So start from the top Elvin Hayes most noticeable there you got a wood dollar Haslam Chris Paul Marion You have a combo of camp and Baron Davis John Wall Jalen Horde Steve Nash. Do I how are you have LeBron James and go to be taught say? Jacob with Zion so there's Jacob Jacob has Zion Tim Hardaway Bradley Bill Roger Bell and fat Lever or Lever James R.J. Barrett down to Kevin Looney. Of course and Edward Cedric Maxwell and Oscar Robinson Jason Cody Zeller down to Aaron Gordon Jeremy Molder you have Lucas Samnick or some on it down to Mark Hells folks, and you also have John Marant So good luck for you for John Marant players Jimmy Taylor Ruby Hatchimura down to Rocky Pierce John Who and with Bill Walton down to Kevin Porter, Jr. You have Steph Curry in there as well Kevin Mahoney Nikolaj Jokic Otto Porter, Jr Kevin Mendoza you have Donovan Mitchell down to Aaron Miller Andre Miller Matt Stone Lou Williams done in Jalen McDaniels Matthew would go and logic Down to Kobe whites. You have Kauai Leonard D. Lil in there Brandon Clark Pascal Siakam Jordan pool car Anthony Towns, etc Nicholas Stone oven Adams Wilkins dork soap on us DeMonte's a bonus, which is his dad down to John Stockton Nicola Nicola Mele down to Doc Rivers. You also have Charles Barkley there Patrick Ewing Grant Hill Pascal you have a mirror coffee down to Jamal Murray Paul George in there, too As well as Stottemar and Adams Ray Phillips Cream dojo board down to AC Green Monzo Ball in there Chuma O'Keeke Derek Rose Nikel Alexander Walker Kuzma Reed DeAndre Aten down to Miles Bridges Richard Sigma down to Cooper Sabrina you got from Norm 12 down to Alton brand Russell West friggin there Sean TJ leaf down to Ben Simmons Steven Magic Johnson down to Jason Terry and there you have Joel and beat you have Paul Pierce like a dumb boy Michael Porter Jr Steve Tyson Chandler down to Dwayne Wade. You have a Keem and Steven Jackson there Steven P From Danny Manning down to manutbol and you have Oladipo and our Carl Malone Takumi you have Vince Carter down to Cody Martin You have Yonis in there and Kyrie Irving with Serge Ibaka and Ty's last mom ojo Fred Van Blee Trey Young Sean Bradley Kevin McHale and Justin Robinson So I don't think there's gonna be any trades I'll give you guys one minute, but I doubt it unless you guys just want to see your teams again, but it's a huge list it's random players But again, this will be the last break of the night. So All right, she WC German and close All right. Good luck guys So Looks like Joe must have numbered these four box cases as ABCD and I have AD left Top or bottom we're gonna use a little dice roll for all the one two three It's gonna be the top four five six for the bottom One two three four five six the top box. I've got a blockchain And it is a rookie patch autographs horizontal bronze Terrence man There you go, it's gonna go to the LAC Clippers, but who has Terrence man Charles. There you go First one we got it's Chris Paul 6,299 Guy there you go, man You got a printing plate and wow, it's Luca Donchich Magenta plate one-on-one From 1819 so this is technically a rookie printing plate from the horizontal patch autos. That's pretty cool There you go. Who has Luca Donchich again, Christopher. There you go, man Actually myself pretty well Secondly a rookie printing plate one-on-one Next we got is a nice double patch Kobe white 10 out of 25 Kobe white Matthew S. There you go, man Let me We got DeMarco Rosen to 99 DeMarco Rosen is guy John Stockton piece of the Jersey 17 out of 99 Nicholas Stone Convent in town tonight I Matthew Jason Terry to 49 Jason Terry Steven we have colossal Malcolm Brogdon 73 out of 99 Malcolm Brogdon Kevin Mendoza I just two more hits guys it looks like we have wow Peerless signatures of Yanis onto the compo card number one Who has Yanis? Takumi there you go. Yanis onto the compo Redemption for an autograph and the last hit is a true RPA a vertical it is 66 out of 99 nice three-color patch Keldon Johnson Who actually it's pretty pretty good stud player for the San Antonio Spurs? That's very nice who has Keldon Johnson Austin F with Keldon Johnson. There you go. Very nice And there you go everybody not a bad box here of NT with a Calvin Johnson to RPA Yanis redemption Pretty solid guys. Remember this was a random players break. So it's gonna go out to the customer that has the player And there you go. Appreciate it guys Jaxby's case breaks calm. We have one more box left. We'll probably post up tomorrow guys


arth science in real time so it's going to take teams of data scientists and software engineers working on data flows from the UAV or the surface vehicles to the ship back to shore so kind of a whole team working on this simultaneously um and I'll just want to the last point here about edge computing where you can do there's a whole burgeoning field of working with data processing on board before you kilometer the kilometer data back so what do I see future capabilities um say five to ten years from now everything we see here we were able to do what I've shown so far and I see 10 to 20 years from now you can have three line deployments more you more um payloads as they things become more miniaturized you can have do more um studies specifically one right now that I didn't mention we have um we're working on a group revenue group emitter at LeMond to miniaturize it and potentially fly it from the aircraft and then 28 to 40 years from now you could have an armored armada of UAVs or autonomous aircraft carrier or a remote recharging station where you could have a number of these flying um simultaneously without enough without people or around or required so I just wanted to touch on a few things all these are are in the presentation you can look at later but it allows for precise tracks low levels of vibration so you can make great trivillage measurements low prop low profile aircraft allows for clean radiometric measurements um and the unoccupied craft we fly over the sea ice where it's not safe for piloted or aircraft emergency landings um so I mentioned that the some of the payloads we have the visible thermal infrared visible um near infrared hyperspectral imaging for ocean color ice type and no pond distributions for instance you can do radiation unobstructed ocean ice albedo measurements the um uh direct covariance fluxes lidar to look at ocean waves ice surface topography and the gravimeter that we're um using to measure eventually used to measure bathymetry and I'll just stop there for now thank you that's okay it won't bite all right thank you so much Chris our next talk is by Oscar Schofield Oscar is a distinguished professor and chair of the department of marine and coastal sciences at Rutgers the state university of new jersey thanks all right so I'm going to take a view of you know where we're going to be 30 to 50 years from now um especially since if 2031 we get our ship it's just under a decade out um and really my theme is building on everything we've heard so far from this morning there and really the future is going to be about sensor web networks it's no longer going to be about a single platform and if you look at the Antarctic and the Southern Ocean really fundamentally what limits us is access and so I think the sensor webs are going to transform that uh next slide so just to give you an idea of how much things change in 30 years that was my first cruise as a graduate student and we had this amazing technology called a fax and it sent us a sea surface temperature satellite map and it actually was fundamentally a change of how we went to sea and it was a unique opportunity if you look now and you go to breezy or some of these sites you can get ocean winds you can get temperature forecasts you can get ocean forecasts and so that's a timeframe we're talking about and so um I think it's important for us to sort of keep a big view because we're going to be able to have a much clearer view of the dynamics of the system and as an ecologist the dynamics drive the biological responses and so you can't solve one without the other so first off if you go to see what you need to do is have context and so if I'm going to a site and you know I'm obviously partial to the western order peninsula um where there's lots of land stations I should have a complete map of everything that's happened in the ocean a month prior to me deploying that's actually a doable thing you have land bases that will require international collaboration and those are landing ports for autonomous vehicles so this is a picture of a glider that was launched from Palmer station went up visited King George and then eventually went down to Rotheron was picked up by UK scientists there is no reason you can't now rebattery and send it back and maintain a complete backbone so that if we get people on the ship this amazing new tool we have a full context to maximize the efficiency of the science so we spent a lot of the time as I was trained to go map the ocean before I started my experiment I want the map so I can spend the entire time at sea doing my experiments so I think that's going to require a new culture it's been evolving very nicely at NSF with international partnerships and over the next decade or two I really hope that accelerates so that really we're leveraging all the resources in this remote location you know and then you embed postal maps within things like the so-com array of the bioargo system that is deployed and hopefully will continue you when you're on the ship you know if you're an ecologist really the first thing you got to do is separate out the physical transport of your ecosystem from the transformation within the ecosystem and solving the transport problem has been a fundamental hindrance for doing ecology at sea so I can go on a ship I can have a ctd rosette I really need 1020 mobile ctd rosettes flying again the cost of doing these missions is less than a ship day and so the ability for a ship to have a 500 kilometer watch circle adrian mentioned it before lunch I think that's where the future is so I know whether to go right left whether I sample on Thursday or Tuesday depending on the process I want to do at the same time we're undergoing a major revolution right now in sensor technology so this is a glider bay that's getting designed right now to do holographic imaging of organisms on a glider and they do this on bioargo platforms now with the uvp and so we can do biology physics chemistry in ways we couldn't and what I think for the future if a ship comes with an array of autonomous vehicles that can be controlled shore side you don't have to dedicate a birth on a ship for at least these kinds of vehicles smart ones like adrian was talking about you do need a dedicated team you know that the scientist now writes a proposal for a science bay not to go buy a glider and then you insert it and you got your mobile array at the same time the ship is an amazing tool and increase access we do flow through systems right now ucar does the pc o2 measurements that so many of us use but getting essentially the ability to add new technologies that are emerging into that system really is a heavy lift and it's not because people don't want to because it takes work it's people time but the sensors are getting better and so what I envision is I could write a proposal and have an advanced array plugged in to the ship system and with improved technology have it shipped back to me during the cruise you know because the bandwidth is increasing at the same time you know sort of imaging systems like shore base you know ship based lidar systems reflectance sensors will essentially tie us directly to the nasa and no arrays so we can constantly calibrate and improve the algorithms so that there's not a disconnect between agencies and algorithms we develop finally you know we should be taking you know we should be taking advantage of smart things you know evolution is an amazing process and if you want to find fronts close heat budgets and everything you know the elephant seals did it for us not all our ship cruises you know and so the idea of studying dynamic things requires that you put you know sensors on but you also increase the throughput directly to the scientists in the field at the time so that they can essentially mission plan around features they want and then sort of my final part is where you automated and this has actually been done in temperate waters where essentially you run several numerical models in forecast mode within that model you embed hypothetical robots you then hand over the flight control of the actual gliders in the water to the model you as a scientist sit in the middle you say I want to hit a river plume I want to hit a algal bloom feature and then you let the model essentially do all the waypoint commands so you can fly a swarm of things and not kill your technicians eight gliders will kill a technician that's about where they spontaneously combust at the same time you're getting real-time data simulation going in to allow you to essentially hone in if you're running for forecast models which one's giving you the best answer with the fidelity you want and it becomes a recursive loop to support the scientists in the middle and so I think automated sensor webs with this great ship vehicle as the mothership is going to change how we go to see thank you ask her I'm not sure that I want to know how you know eight gliders will kill your technician but I trust I trust you've tested it safely all right thank you so much ask her our next speaker is britney schmitt britney is an associate professor in the astronomy and earth and atmospheric sciences at Cornell university oh nice to see everybody um so i'm going to spend some time talking about robotic under ice platforms and the many scales that we might use these to observe in the future so we've seen Antarctica obviously a number of different ways today but the point that I'd like to make of course as many have already is that you know about half of this coastline is comprised by ice shelves by really thick ice that's at the margin between the solid earth and the ocean it's a very very difficult barrier to make observations through and we have a surprising dearth of observations as a result perhaps the best studied of these regions now from at least from an ice shelf perspective is is the Ross and now thwaites we're doing a lot more work there too there's a couple of examples of under ice robotics in other places but i'm going to focus on kind of these two stories for today just as a to kind of maybe inspire where we may go in the future so this is a figure that Justin Lawrence put together as part of a proposal to work with the New Zealand program to start to get perspectives underneath the Ross ice shelf and so the Ross ice shelf is roughly a thousand kilometers across so that's kind of the scale where we've got really high resolution information from the front of the shelf where you can understand material forming in the plenia how that ocean forcing affects the front of the shelf we have one or two data points from underneath the ice shelf and the hot water drilling programs through A and Z have really made a lot of progress in that so that we can kind of move backwards and get bigger and bigger pictures about what's happening underneath the ice shelf relating back to the same process that Adrian mentioned this morning but the point here also is that at each place in this system there is a robotic observation platform that's ideally suited and those are going to change over the next couple of years and i'm going to focus on recent rov operations because that's our our work but i'll talk a little bit about where all of these processes can be explored by robotic platforms um so this is ice fin which is our underwater uh it's a hybrid a uv rov so it can do autonomous motions but it's tethered and it's done like that so that we can get through thick ice and so a lot of the time we use rov is thinking of them as kind of swimming eyes um but this one is really modular this is an ocean class a uv on a string and much smaller and modular so that we can change everything about the system in order to observe different processes in different environments and so it's long and relatively thin it has the same kinds of sensors it's got about 10 science sensors depending on how we deploy it similar to an open ocean a uv but it only weighs about 250 pounds and each of those pieces comes apart and so we can make it portable into the field and so i'm going to show you two different cases um the cold base and the warm base and why we'd want to see all of those together um and this is just the rov perspective on that so this is near the grounding line of the cam ice stream um as explored in 2019 and what we know is that those those crevasses so those kind of up and downs that you can see in this image here we're not resolved by the radar or by seismic and so the vehicle at first at first glance can actually resolve features that we don't see with the others there's also a lot of detail at the sea floor which we'll zoom into um and this is from an upcoming paper should be out in maybe three weeks in nature geoscience led by a phd student uh jesson morrence but we can also zoom in into the individual processes and get this kind of spatial awareness of what's going on underneath the ice so you notice these crevasses become real-world places i'll show you some zoom in data of that in a moment but you can see seafloor processes that involve bioturbation we can see the imprints of the of the crevasses where they used to reside on the seafloor and where they are now with the ice now lifted off of the seafloor so a lot of perspectives on the ocean the solid earth and the ice processes all in one view and then we can zoom in and look at how the spatial characterization of the ocean impacts what we see in the ice and so here we've got everything from pretty much stable um ice ocean interactions in balance at the very bottom of this which you can observe not just from the ocean temperatures which you can get from moorings but also in the texture of the sidewalls of the crevasse so we actually drove ice and up into the crevasse and what you can see also at the very top of this is the transition into freeze on at the top of it so we're actually observing the ice plump directly in in morphological terms in oceanographic terms and in glaciologic terms so now how about the worm base so this is the work that's actually coming out next week in nature from the melt project in itgc so what we did is we did the same project but at the grounding zone of thwates glacier and so this is all data from the vehicle and what it gives you is that heat budget in the water column so this is in terms of thermal driving so you can see the very warm water making it all the way to the grounding line of thwates but you can see the real importance of the very very fine scale detail right at the surface and that's the real story of the two papers that are coming out next week is that what you would measure from the ocean mooring and what you would measure and assume from the vertical melt rates is not the story underneath the ice we get something like five meters a year of vertical melt rates but when you get in situ you see it's actually maybe 30 or 50 meters inside of the crevasse and creating all of this topography along the bottom of the sea a bottom of the ice that's not resolved other ways this is just a perspective on how the melt rate changes as a function of the ice shelf geometry which is an unresolved parameter in everything we're doing so you think about a place like thwates where rifting and crevasses are becoming a major part of its disintegration well all of the processes that are accumulating in there from a glaciological process but also from an ocean influence perspective are not resolvable until you get in with with tools on this scale and so that's what underwater vehicles allow us to do and in particular what rovs allow us to do so they allow us to do things like this which is drive directly to the sites of the melting you can see this is basal ice uh losing particulates we've got sensors on there to measure the oceanographic conditions as well as oxygen levels things like that you'd need to understand for ocean and for microbial processes this is the actual arrival at the grounding line right here um where you can see the ice here and we're going to see it actually sitting on the seafloor back here this is the first in situ measurements of melting at the grounding line by a platform and so these rovs allow us to get in there and actually ask those questions here's just a sub sampling of pictures of physical processes that we can resolve by going into the environment so those are particulates uh in basal ice we think kind of uh accreted upstream that's perhaps subglacial water accreted onto the base of the ice shelf and now we're uh or sorry upstream of the grounding line that we can now observe in the ocean we've got basal ice processes and terraces farming in the lower and then you can actually see some of the interactions between materials being plucked off of the um off of the continent and then dragged out into the ocean so all of these are processes that become uh resolvable when you can make it to the ice ocean interface and so that's the story here is if we think about this in terms of the scales of robotic platforms we need and what their accommodations are like then this is what we're talking about we've got a thousand kilometer system here we have rovs that can really make it into these very very tight spaces and they have a place they have a role to play which is to get up to the ice ocean interface to get into lakes to get to these very tight constrained areas all of the water columns I've just shown you are not accessible by AUVs because of their keepout range if you're taking a five million dollar asset in it needs to stay away from the ice and so all of the measurements that are left in the last meter that's the melt rates that's the ice ocean interactions those can't be made by AUVs because of this idea of vehicle safety it makes it very very hard it's a challenge even in open ocean environments to drive autonomous platforms in changing geometric conditions so ROVs have a role to play in that and they'll continue to be enabled by what we do but AUVs are getting longer and longer I think we're at 100 kilometers or so is the longest under ice route um mission single mission um we'll probably be able to extend that but again we've got uh we're in the deep water environment with the AUVs not up close to the ice ocean interface and then we've got gliders also and all of these technologies can be improved by having networks of acoustic sensors that we can use for navigation underneath the ice so all of these can be enabled by um by future work and so just to touch on a few things we've got long range exploration goals and these will be really useful we need to fund technology development they need to be scientists in the loop of developing that we dot we're not interested in an algorithm we're interested in a science result and so that's where it's important to have engineers and scientists working together but I want to mention as well access and support because most of these critical observations really do need to get to the places and in particular the ROVs if we're drilling through the ice we need to be able to access those places it means scalable products it means scalable drills it means new thinking about mobility and access infrastructure so uh planes sea planes helos these kinds of things and uh more capable but smaller drill platforms sorry for running over thanks thank you so much it's great all right thank you britney our next speaker is maureen walzik maureen is an assistant professor in the college of earth ocean and atmospheric sciences at organ state university i didn't no no no worries at all never marry a poll if you ever want anybody to say your name right when i keep getting people changed wrong i'll just say it say it cover it um it's walzak walzak walzak which i'm sure is not correct and polish but that's my husband's family goes with that and we're gonna go with it for here um thanks very much for having me um my name is mo and i am an assistant professor at organ state university where i'm a paleo oceanographer but i'm not here to talk to you about research i'm here to talk to you about instrumentation um so i'm going to agree with britney that this is definitely the popular projection of the day um so so for those of you who study Antarctica i'm sure you're devastated to know that the ice sheets are grinding it away all right so the ice sheets are doing a very efficient job of taking all of that rock of the continent turning it into dust essentially or cobbles and then and then all of that material gets transported out to the edge of the ice sheet by the ice itself and then carried off over the shoulders of the continental shelf and actually thousands of kilometers away into the southern ocean where it's mixed with biogenic components forming these very very thick deposits so the seismic line that you can see there that's a seismic line from the raw sea and you can kind of see is there a is there a mouse that i can use no you can use your eyes you guys are all good at this right so so you can see that that contact line between the bedrock and all of those those linear things on top that's all mud and this is problematic for some people right in our first session we talked about how these these thick burdens of sediment on the shoulders of the continent obfuscate the beautiful geology and the bedrock geology underneath but one man's trash is another man's treasure there are advantages to these very thick sediment deposits and specifically if you know how to get at them they have very high resolution histories in them essentially they can be geomagnetic histories they can be paleo environmental histories at the ocean they can tell you things about the history of the ice sheet and its outlet glaciers there's a lot of opportunity there we just have to get to it and how do i change the slides the green oh nice no i did bad well anyway who cares my slides my slides do not have the production value of the earlier talks so so how how do we get this mud home at the smallest scale we we use hydraulically braked cores that sample the sediment water interface so this example here is something called a multicore there's a variety of different styles of those but essentially this is this is an instrument that gets you just the very very top of the sediment surface but unsurprisingly that doesn't super matter for research vessel design right we don't design our research vessels over the smallest things that we do we design them for the biggest the heaviest things that we do and so unless you're a very specific kind of gearhead the next five minutes are probably going to be among the longest five minutes of your life to keep you awake try and think about what you think the most central important component of ship design should be when it comes to overboarding handling systems everybody get that think about what what matters there even even that sentence was boring i'm sorry so this this here is on the on the large scale of technologies that are currently available in the us or not currently anymore i guess the ship's actually been retired this is the research vessel nor out of hui and if you look you can see this long skinny pipe running alongside of the ship it's red on the left hand side yellow on the right hand side it's got long skinny pipe on the left hand side there's like a big round chunk of what's led you'll have to trust me it's led on the top and so that is a jumbo piston coring system jumbo piston coring systems are the largest kinds of systems we can use to sample the seafloor from most platforms if you go above that right now in the u.s really your only option is the joy d's resolution for those of you who don't do mud that's that's a drill ship next slide i'm sorry i'm very capable person how do i yes thank you okay um so so uh in terms of what we can do with a jumbo piston coring system um the the uh pour that you saw on the the um nor in the previous picture that's called the long core um because people who we are super creative about what they call their stuff it's the long core you'll remember that right this ones you're seeing in these pictures here this is designed by the french um it's called the calypso core because it's more romantic there uh on the left we're seeing the um the calypso core on the rv pour pour which means why not why not build a big fabulous research vessel and on the right hand side you're seeing a cluster of pictures of the um at the system being deployed from the crumb prince hawken which is the new uh the new um norwegian research vessel so um you can see again the way that these things work on the left hand side of that quadrant four the red and yellow striped thing with the going vertical to the right just a little bit right and then down just a little bit and then right just a little bit more to the right yes that one that's right there so so that one there um that's showing the the core in its uh deployment and recovery orientation um however you obviously can't get 50 meters of core out of the core barrel when it's stuck like that you have to bring it up alongside the rail of your ship and so what the other pictures are showing on the on the right hand side lower right this one's simple right that's the thing coming up and there's a variety of ways to do it on the top in the crumb sprint hawken you can see that they have these hydraulic there's a little white l shaped things in the top those are hydraulic arms that like grab the core barrel and bring it in so you can work on it and take the four out of it on the pork wapa they have these little davids with chains that's the lower left hand side again but but essentially like these systems are very very simple um it's they have not changed a lot since the mid 20th century this is basically like the shark of oceanographic design um it doesn't it doesn't have to evolve much because it's very very good it's elegant it's simple it works scalable this is a good tool to have on your research vessel next slide but it's limited right so this this basically this works by gravity that the piston core is they punch into the seafloor just based on the weight that's above them in the in the piston core head that we call them the bombs even though probably that's not that's sort of incendiary but but yeah so that the piston core head it's the only thing that gives you weight into the bottom and if you're working you're an ice sheet where you have rocks that can be problematic so if you want if you want records from the shelf if you want to have a chance at getting through rocky sediment and if you want to have a chance to fully capitalize on those really high resolution records and go back longer in time right that the the converse of high resolution is that you have to have a really long record to capture a meaningful interval of time and as we go forward into the future we're starting to understand that we're going to have to go further and further back in time to capture the the climatologic analogs that are most relevant for what's happening now and so that means we need to go deeper into the mud and again right now in the us the the only capability that we have for doing that is the joint east resolution and the joint east resolution the future of that program is kind of in peril and so we actually have an opportunity with this Antarctic research vessel to turn the paradigm of under sampling the Antarctic on its head right now the Antarctic is was one of the poorest regions understood from occupations by the joint east resolution if we put one of these bad boys on it we have a chance to change that so this is what's called the mebo system and depending on how long this takes it seems like maybe it takes 30 or 40 years to build a research vessel it's actually honestly kind of terrifying this this project seems like it started when i was about six um but if if current technologies are still relevant when this thing comes off the line this is probably what we want this is called a mebo system they were actually designed in the us and then refined in germany they've been online for i think almost two decades now and so what you're seeing on the left there is a launch and recovery device a lars it's just like a ctd lars but much bigger the mebo is that big blue box on top of it it's about the size of a shipping container and this is being deployed in this picture through the stern a frame of the sauna in order to deploy this thing you have to have enough deck space for its control carrier so basically the way this you can think of this is like a coring rov so it's it's moved over to the side of the ship and then there are videos that describe this better than my hand puppetry but the thing is tilted upright and then lowered the seafloor in that orientation when it hits the seafloor those little legs come out and then it's connected back to the ship with an umbilicus an electromechanical umbilicus that allows it to talk to that control room which is one of those containers in the deck diagram on the top so it comes with an entourage it's like a star with its entourage kind of like the jason thing you you you sit in that control room and then you start steering this thing and it has two magazines of pipe one magazine of pipe is the liner the other magazine of pipe is the coring systems that are the cores themselves and so basically it spuds a hole puts down a pipe puts a core liner in that pipe gets a core recovers that first liner adds another section of wall pipe drills down another section with a new liner in it so on and so forth actually i reverse that so you you you put the whole thing in the first time core goes down pull out the core add a new empty core then add another liner there's a youtube video that does this better than i can but trust me it's awesome and you can get about 200 meters in the best cases which is what gets you about to the science mission requirements of of this platform so last we're almost done now um so what are your platform considerations then what do we have to think about when we are trying to design these these uh systems with the capability to deploy these systems on the ship so on the upper right hand here we have a i just snagged a diagram of a icebreaker the crump and talking to talk about this because i imagine that i but thank you yes with pointer um so so the first the first thing for piston coring is you need to have that long space along the rail and the ability to ability to work along the rail that's very important here because we don't have a moon pool in particular you also have to have to have a handling system that's capable of pulling things out to routinely 50 000 pounds and maybe up to 100 000 pounds so you need a crane that's really pretty heavy duty to be able to pull those piston cores out at the bottom for the mebo system so on the on the left this is again the mebo on the sona the mebo has been marketed all over the world now many many nations have one they're all over europe they're in in uh asia we don't have one yet but in order to deploy the mebo system you have to have space for that lar's device that has the the mebo itself you have to have space for its winch um what do you guys think at the end of this talk what do you guys think is maybe the most important design consideration when thinking about really heavy ops from this research vessel anyone very close it's related to the apron but it's even more basic very close getting closer your wire larry gets it all right so next slide i have an animation designed to your strength member um so that turns out the single most important thing that you can do is think about how strong you need your line to be and then make sure every other component of your system is strong enough to handle that and that means like your deck your stability your winches everything else has to go around that strength member in this case we really should be thinking about a strength member um on the order of like a two inch synthetic probably in terms of safe working loads and i also want to make one more point when i was reviewing this with the um the marsham group which is the nsf sediment coring group and we were looking at the specifications we noticed that the current specification for the a frame on the arv is um 30 tons and 30 english tons is not going to be sufficient to do this that's not going to work so we think there might have been a translation problem if you look at the specs for the mebo on the website it says 30 tons but they're talking about metric tons a 30 ton english ton a frame would be about equivalent to what we have on the armstrong ride class of ships so they're pretty small um and much less than we have on for example the atlantis so somebody pay attention and fix that that's it because you're free all right thank you maureen our next speaker is larry mayer larry is a professor and director of the center for coastal and ocean mapping at the university of new hampshire thank you pauler um i've been asked to talk about uh acoustic mapping uh in support of anardic science and i start off with a beautiful slide of peter been fjord in greenland and that's for a full disclosure i've never been to anardica i've never worked there but i have uh participated in these 15 or 16 expeditions in the high arctic and uh northern greenland and i hope those experiences are quite relevant i'm sure they're quite relevant um when i think about the science drivers i can speak for hours about reasons to map the seafloor and all kinds of for all kinds of different purposes but i think we've heard already today wonderfully from atalia from ted from adrian um the compelling compelling reasons that we need to map the seafloor and that's indeed to understand the pathways of the uh circumpolar deep water and how heat is transferred and transported onto the shelf and into the ice cavities and that's really what we need to do much better prediction of uh global sea level rise and we look at the area of uh wilf's land there virtually unmapped that only the dark green lines are existing mapping data and that's an area as has been pointed out before of a potential 12 meter sea level rise capacity and so we we have a compelling problem and it implies that we need to map and we know where we're working so it needs we need to have a mapping system on an icebreaker and a multi beam system to give us a complete map we have lots of icebreakers around that have multi-beam sonars on them we're very lucky about that globally if we look at the us fleet it's a little smaller and of course by time we see the calmer out of service and even the hilly we're stuck with whatever you guys come up with so it's very very important when we think about multi-beam sonars on icebreakers we have to be very careful it's not the standard multi-beam sonar most multi-beam sonars are put on a gondola beneath the hull you cannot do that when on an icebreaker so if we look at icebreakers and this is the odin the multi-beam sonar has to be flush with the hull which is difficult to do often behind the nice knife and after that it has to be reinforced with titanium rods and all kinds of special coatings and even at that it takes it takes a beam so we have to think about the special aspects of multi-beam sonars on icebreakers um but an icebreaker is just a single platform and we need to be able to expand that footprint we have large-scale mapping we do the entire area of wilk's land needs to be mapped and we're not going to do that in our lifetime from a single icebreaker and so we need to expand the footprint and we're making lots of progress now with the small autonomous surface systems that can carry mapping sonars on them that can work at high speed that have a very good seat caping keeping capabilities they can be deployed from the vessel if we have that capability to deploy them and we're also making progress with uh autonomous sailing vessels that can have much longer duration sail drone uh surveyor up there we launched from san francisco spent 30 40 days up in the illusions and came back to san francisco so we have this possibility for long-range missions and we have to keep track of course of where those are those areas are going to be ice free at particular times because these vessels will not be able to break through the ice you'll have to avoid the ice we're making tremendous progress along these lines the duration the vehicle i showed you there had a five to seven day duration we're looking at the next generation with 30 to 40 day endurance for some of these vessels and ranges like 2,530 uh 3,000 nautical miles and so we're making progress as we look to the years ahead with these force multipliers of autonomous surface vehicles and the beauty of the surface vehicle is it's constantly in touch with the satellite system we can use low earth orbiting satellites and have full situational awareness we can actually operate these often from the shore but as uh britney talked about um we really need to get under the ice um for a lot of the areas that are of interest um we've had as britney said the autosub has gone 100 kilometers or so uh under the ice um years and years ago a canadian company built the as a uv called theseus made a 200 mile mission under the ice and back so 400 miles uh back and forth um but this indeed as we look to the to the future it's going to be the real challenge to have the power of the positioning communication situational awareness truly autonomous sensors that let us operate under the ice and i think britney addressed some of that progress they are very very nicely um aside from the broad scale mapping again as was pointed out by adrian and others we have all the issues of understanding the processes at the ice margin and under the ice and this is a much finer scale mapping uh issue and there again we need to deliver our mapping sonars under the ice but here we will have uh as um i think natalia pointed out this morning looking at the geology and the sub-bottom uh processes to understand the history how can we get there we've made some progress alan mix and i uh working with swedish colleagues again in northern greenland shown the power i think of mapping and high resolution in this case uh peterman fjord be able to be able to look at the history of grounding wedges as they've retreated to understanding the history of ice movement in response to environmental conditions but also understanding in great detail the flow conditions here we were in peterman fjord again able to reconstruct the history uh recent history of the ice movements of comparing that to uh sherrod osmond fjord or where rider glacier is where the history of the ice sheet has been quite quite differently particularly the floating ice tongue of peterman uh has fallen back tremendously in the last several thousand years while in uh sherrod osmond fjord the ice tongue has actually blown or stayed stable and why is that difference well when we look closely at the weaponry we see that in one there was a deep passage of the loud warm atlantic water in to directly touch the ice sheet in uh rider or sherrod osmond fjord there was a second seal that prevented that and so again the important power of seeing that that fine scale with symmetry for understanding the processes and what's going on at the ice margin at the same time our soldiers can look at the water column two and with a multi beam sauna up in the upper left there we can actually see milk looms coming up along the ice face what we can get even closer and higher resolution with broadband so our soldiers that were developed fisheries that we've now adopted physical oceanography where we can see processes like thermal healing staircases we can look at the mixed layer the distribution of the mixed layer near the ice front and even seeing again freshwater freshwater looms coming out so we have this capability with the sensors to see what's going on at the ice front um very very nicely and the problem is it's dangerous to work though we're not going to send crude vessels right at the ice front so we're working on a generation of now small autonomous platforms surface platforms that let us get right to that ice front get high resolution sonar images with lidar with lidar above the uh the surface and with high resolution sonar looking at the ice front looking at ice cavities and again with the broadband acoustic sensors on them being able to look at the milk processes at the same time here again this is touching on what britney talked about we really need to get under the ice sheet though in a green land perspective 40 to 50 kilometers in an Antarctic perspective a thousand kilometers and so this is really where we have to start pushing hybrid vehicles rov slash au v's that can really allow us to move under the ice and also as we've heard time and time again some all have long-term year-round presence there which is going to be key and so i end up with what i really think the future may be we're seeing an evolution of autonomous systems that can have remarkable ranges we'll see four five thousand kilometer range on these vehicles but these vehicles can in themselves be then a platform for either an autonomous system or a hybrid system and you can launch them and again within a 40-year framework we were asked to look at i think this will be quite feasible the challenges of course are going to be again the bottleneck of communication for being served by low-earth low-earth orbiting satellites is going to help us tremendously but the acoustic communication through the water column too but again i think in a 40-year framework we're talking about we're going to make tremendous progress there and so to end up i think the bottom line is we have the senses and we know what to do with them at least from an acoustic perspective the key as oscar said and many other people said it's going to be access we need access to the broad region to the ice margin under the ice and we need year-round presence and in my mind even though we're supposed to talk about mapping it's really the platforms and the delivery systems that are going to be the key and i think there's going to be tremendous a tremendous feature in broadband excuse me in uncured platforms they offer us greater flexibility safety as long as we can overcome the problems of broad-range communications power position and situational awareness we have time to do that and i think we will thank you oh yeah all right thank you very much larry and to all of the speakers we are right on time and we have about 25 minutes for questions we can do both virtual and in-person and participants can input their questions into slido or if you're in the room you can come to either of the microphones and ask your question and if you're participating remotely you can also raise your hand and wait to be called upon so we'll start with a few zoom questions okay first one is for oscar what features need to be included in the ship designed to facilitate to facilitate future tech that you described a lot of the vehicles that i work with are on the smaller side so having small boats that can easily be deployed that's going to be the same thing that's going to enable things like looking at whales and animals so that needs to be facilitated there are smart sort of platforms you can put on the side of ships or you know on the back a frame for capturing vehicles of different sizes and different values and so you know if you have a Ferrari you're going to need a different system on the back a frame to pick it up as opposed to a glider which is like a ugo yeah where it's not worth that much relative to everything else so i think flexibility is the key but it's not like it used to be in terms of it if you can do the stuff you were talking about you can handle most of the vehicles easily thank you um all right for matt can you comment on how the arv in or existing vessels could support a seafloor geodesi network yeah great question um so there are a couple different ways to do seafloor geodesi right now you have things like genesis acoustics where typically you bring a ship back to survey it in but you can do that with gliders so a ship that's capable of sending out fleets of gliders to go survey in all of these monuments you put on the seafloor you can do it with just pure pressure sensors at this point and so you know we're talking about deploying relatively small instruments off the side so if you can throw giant floor drills uh to the seafloor you can put a little you know sonar buoy uh on the seafloor uh larry can multi-beam systems on icebreakers with the inherent design limitations of the hull reach the same resolution or other capabilities of mb systems on other ships yeah that's a that's a great question um there's no single type of multi-beam system everything scales with frequency the higher the frequency the higher the resolution but the less the range and so the decisions that have to be made there have been discussions with the other committees that are that are looking at at the equipment on the vessel is do you go with the lowest frequency systems which are full depth range with the lowest resolution or try to scale up and you try to find that sweet spot you can increase the resolution of a multi-beam system by increasing the rate the ray length and so the beauty of the ice breaker is that you have a lot of space on it so you actually can get from a lateral resolution perspective a relatively high resolution multi-beam sonar on deep water multi-beam sonar on an ice breaker and so it's the same as any other vessel our nearshores surface vessels have have have very high resolution sonars that only work in a few hundred meters or less um midwater sonars work in midwater depths um and for something like the ice breaker we'd expect a full ocean depth sonar that will have a very capable resolution and potentially a second high very high resolution sonar as it gets into the shallow water and the trick is finding the proper overlap of frequencies in the sweet spot so we maintain the best possible wherever we are there's always going to be a small compromise with an ice breaker because the ice windows that are necessary do limit somewhat how far out and they add to the attenuation so how far out the swap will be but for the most part the physics is the same and um there's been lots of thought about trying to get that sweet spot between a full ocean depth system and a second high resolution system so when you're in the shallow waters you can get that full really high resolution and still get maintained coverage and cost effective mapping elsewhere thank you next questions for britney these hot for these high basal melt rates about 20 meters per year is there a way to know if these are persistent over long time scales i.e. month to year what is the capacity for ice fin to make persistent observations near the grounding zones yes so those are good questions so um i should note so there's a like so there's two papers coming out ones from mooring data as well as prospectus kind of in the open ocean and so it's a grounding line mooring or very near the grounding line and then further out on the glacier tongue for thwates and so um i guess there's there's two ways to answer this one is that you know the the vehicles give you the spatial scales that we are unable to get otherwise the long term so far moorings mostly but also other types of deployable sensors are really the answer for these longer term rates and this is only for one particular part of the system so the important parts to think about is is the the takeaway is that you can see the difference in these two relatively similar types of environments between one thermal regime and the other and so having multiple to compare tells you what's really in all of these systems rather than assuming that we're all talking about one flat base ocean comes in this way it goes back out this way when really it's going along the coast and and there's these dynamic interactions and so that says that there is a spatial aspect to problems that we don't always think about because we've been limiting ourselves to one in two dimensional measuring techniques so that's a sales pitch i guess in terms of what the vehicles can do we are currently limited by the fact that we have to pull out of the water to recharge and go back down and so the rov approach is limited by battery length and the ability to recharge but that doesn't have to be so anything you're putting through the ice as long as you think about its dimension and what your access is going to be that can be mitigated so things like deployable either wired or wireless charging platforms there's things that we've now proposed multiple times to technology programs and not yet been funded but will happen those technologies exist for open ocean platforms they've enabled a lot of the surface resources that have been mentioned here and so those kinds of things can be deployed under the ice they're a little bit different but the other thing i forgot to maybe mention is that as we and i think it was really importantly mentioned in this last one is that it's access to everything and so for grounding zones which is this marginal environment that we know very very little about we really do need to go through the ice and get as close as possible and so your tether length is what's limiting you there in terms of amount of observations or the duration of those observations you'd really like to make those seasonal that may not always be possible so small vehicles can also deploy sensors and so we're trying to work on the kinds of sensors that we could send out but back to this need for communication if you were to melt through do all of your experiments but as a part of your mooring leave behind an acoustic calm system that you could communicate to deployed sensors that would give you your your change in time at a specific location rather than just the access point which i think is really the frontier for that and the other part i wanted to mention too is that the sea ice the nice thing about the small vehicles like this is that we can use the sea ice as a platform and so if we have the ability from an icebreaker to go out onto the sea ice and get into a marginal zone that would actually help us because we can then core through 10 inches or meters and meters and meters of ice you know just put in a small hole to access and get under and still do that high spatial resolution work so there's a lot of thinking about AUVs and their their longevity parking them under ice shelves for a long period of time i'm not sure you want to park a platform that's that valuable for that long they can certainly be able to do it but how do you recover that and then your emergency plan for vehicle safety becomes a real issue so the robustness of those platforms might be really it's this fusion of deployability and then and then using it to get these high resolution spatial pictures of of processes that we can't resolve otherwise thank you very much question for chris could the UAVs communicate with and collect data from instruments deployed on the seafloor that's a good question um you would need to have some surface expression probably to have just to limit other data back or um um yeah probably need to have a you need to have some surface expression yeah or you have some autonomous vehicle that is underwater and comes up to the surface do we get to all the slido ones uh there's still more but if you want to jump in please well i do i have a question um it's more of a philosophical question um i don't know who's online but um i was struck this morning by the comment of how to get input to the national science foundation outside of this report if you're in the community um if you would like to see certain capabilities added to the ARV or other needs addressed and i can't remember who said it but someone spoke to the fact that um there was a subcommittee or committee in place and their email addresses are on the website and i just have to say after 18 years in the federal government and being back in academia i'm so tired of people pushing me to websites to find email addresses of people that i have to write 18 page emails to to appeal to them to get a requirement on the table i'm not saying that's the wrong way to do it but i wonder if we could think about or what the panelists think about as far as pathways to get your input as far as requirements to federal or other agencies international partners for some of these requirements outside of the academies the reason i bring that up is i feel like we need more workshops in less conferences do you know what i mean um so i just i welcome any thoughts on that i'm not sure how to capture that as a requirement in our report for an open dialogue yes yeah yeah right because i i i think that you know you come to a national academy meeting like this there's lots of smart people you start thinking about things you hadn't before and too early we go back to our lives and can capitalize on it right you know given the post pandemic world with a lot of this virtual stuff figuring out new models for collecting the information i think would be awesome and i feel like people think the burden it's like booking your own travel it's like all the burdens on you to go and figure out all the research it's it's becoming that way you know and we have um somebody at the mic oh yeah i mean i'll just speak up because i am the chair of the committee that is working on the design team to try to incorporate on the community input so my name is the one that's on the really i'm here to listen i have taken a lot of notes i have lots of information and please you know feel free to contact me to come talk with me i'm here at all the meals and just want to hear everything that you talk to say i also have lots of information that if you don't want to pick through the website i can tell you there are so many documents that on our committee sometimes we're asking each other questions and the information is all there but there's a lot of a lot of paperwork to go through but if people want to know you know what are the different you know which is why are a frames what kind of small boots are do we have in mind please come talk to me i can show them to you i can take notes and get that information back and then also to remember i think at the time pointed out we're still really at the beginning i mean when you said preliminary it really means preliminary you know i already you know have notes from mo i think we have the wrong number there because i thought if i just looked it up it's 40 000 it should be 60 000 right so that's a kind of information about me and i'm sorry that if it happens then it's easy to get all of us but anyhow here i am so please talk to me no i'm great i greatly appreciate that you came forward i also don't think it's practical for everybody in the room to come talk to you for the because of your time right i mean you can't do that kind of lift and have your day job so i wonder sometimes how we best push information out rather than have to go pull it to ourselves um and it's not just the arv i find that on there many other things yeah i'm so i'm so glad that Amy yeah Amy got up and introduced herself and because i have to admit as an outsider for the whole process but somebody who's spoken to both committees i'm quite confused um and and i'm hoping that there's a mechanism that really rationalizes this and the biggest danger is what you brought up earlier this morning is that when you build a something like an arv it's it's it's a giant ball that starts rolling and at some point there are things that are immutable you know things get fixed and if that happens too early on without that input yeah we can end up with a product at the end of the day that that really is less than less than the best yeah no thank you larry and thank you for coming forward and saying that appreciate um sorry i'm sure we have other questions in the flight oh as well uh a question for larry could water column under ice shells be monitored acoustically by long-term deployments of multi beams on the ice surface or via boreholes as you showed with the ship mounted multi beams yes absolutely and it's it always boils down to the same thing it's it's a question of access and power um and and you know i i don't know if i should it i i've been wondering what you know the power problem is quite solvable um we just as a as a nation drifted away from from small and clear reactors long ago but um our competitors are now instrumenting their seafloor instruments this way and and i think we need to take a another look at that as a as a hopefully a very safe but potential source of of very very long-term power for some of our interests i think it could be a real game changer thank you question for britney does ice finn have water sampling capability uh yeah great question um yeah so ice finn has hopefully and vehicles like that the idea behind how it's developed is to allow the scientists to drive literally the boat uh or the sub in this particular case um and so the the science bay that the image i showed had a had a mapping sonar in it um that can all be swapped and so we have a water sampler um we haven't deployed it deep under ice yet because it takes space on the vehicle and so it really depends on what the science drivers are um so we've deployed it under sea ice and under the front part of the McMurdo ice shelf um we've done uh we have a paper in the works on a microbial imager a holographic microscope um that we've developed so a whole bunch of different flexible uses for those science packages so it's hard with very small vehicles to gather enough water samples but they're at least able to be targeted so this one um has six um like 100 mil capabilities so um it'd be nice to do nice to do more um but uh the through going through the ice is the is the biggest limiter for that vehicle thank you um question from matt regarding the fiber instrument instrumented network would there be any synergies with the proposed McMurdo New Zealand subsea telecom science cable that is looking at concepts for smart repeaters distribute distributed fiber sensing and branching units for future science cable extensions yes i mean it's all part of the same backbone i mean we're using telecommunications uh the cables across the oceans right now to do to listen to wales we can do this we know we can do this and so i'm imagining a network that basically ties into a subsea uh data transmission cable and then these you can put you know anchors on this for autonomous vehicles too and then they communicate their data they go back home to their base station they communicate the data out and so it's a multi-use network we the entire world is covered in fiber at this point it crisscrosses the globe except in Antarctica thank you uh quick and on ice fin and and there are rov's that lay cables that's how telecoms do it so sometimes but that's that that teeth you teeth you special um a uv that i showed you its purpose was to lay a cable on the under the arctic ice uh for mo how long is the um umbilicus on mebo um the mebo 200 ambilicus i believe is around 2000 meters uh with most most of these things it's sort of there's what comes off the shelf and then you can work with the designers to change that i think up to like 2500 or 2700 meters would be desirable and i believe that's possible with that system thank you from experience we know that autonomous vehicles in polar ice environments often need rescuing what resources are needed on the ship small boats helos others that could allow the ship to focus on shipwork and not spend too much time on rescuing uh autonomous vehicles and this is an open question so whoever would like to jump in britney's probably britney's probably more expert but but i'll make it i'll make a comment you know we were asked to look at a 40 year window and we're in such an early day with autonomous vehicles that they're unquestionably issues of reliability and i think you know as we start thinking about this longer and longer window we hopefully will increase the reliability tremendously we'll increase a number of the capabilities particularly communication and things like that and so there's no question but that's the kind of things we talked about are not necessarily realistic right now but but we have to take a look at that window in britain you have more experience than i i mean and we have we don't have any or i don't personally have any for doing you know open ocean recoveries but although really like record breaking under ice under ice robotics is done under sea ice because it can be it can be rescued easily right so we you can drive across and cut a hole as i mentioned so the ability to operate from the sea ice or operate get out to the site is is pretty easy and that doesn't need the entire vessel to go do it i also mentioned this idea of of acoustic networks or ways of communicating with the vehicles and that's really what's needed is things like usbls or beacons that you can you can put out because then it's like a breadcrumbs to get back to where to where the vehicle knows where it is because that's actually the that's actually the issue so most people are used to you know their cell phone and their constant gps access now put it underwater and now put a lid on top of it and have the entire geometry train chain you know we have autonomous cars that can't park in a place with constant right constant conditions like being monitored and positioning information and that's what we're dealing with is it's a really challenging environment to operate and so anything we can do to help with awareness or at least hey come home here's safety is really the biggest thing so i think there's two sides of it one is access and the other side is just building up some communications framework and the other thing is expectations build for robust conditions think about what the operations are going to be like sea ice is not ice shelf ice and so those types of things just need to be considered as part of the mission ops um as well so we think a lot about the technology and the people being separate that's something else i didn't get a chance to mention is that you know the technology doesn't get rid of people in the field there will be people in the field it just allows you to do different and more things with it i hear a lot of people talk about well one day just the the thing will go do it and then we'll be sitting on the side it's true from a certain perspective there's still technologists there's still scientists in the loop and there's still these parts of the operations that that we're very very good at and that our and our ability to react in the moment is very useful and so those things just have to be thought about from a mission design perspective from the beginning and if we if we think about the the losses we've seen of avies under the ice and the way the few that have been recovered have been recovered it's been with an rov and so i i think if you if you think about a kit that you'd have on board you'd have the the avies but you'd have a could even be a very small with hybrid rov that can then on a fiber go out and actually locate the avie again your idea of acoustic sensors around the proposition that is great but could actually attach something to it if necessary so i think there are ways to approach it but let's let's hope you get a little i think there's also like for open ocean where there might be distance involved it's about building behaviors into the robots where i'm going to go into panic mode and i'm going to go on conservation and then my battery storage could be two years you know um and so there's this and the other way i think when we move to these new technologies which give us a whole new way of doing things is you have to think about the dollar per data byte and so if a glider goes out and gives you 20 000 ctd profiles you know and you compare that to the cost of doing a single ship ctd profile you know it's a different way you scale the problem if you're talking about science outputs yeah i think that's completely true you mentioned the the vehicle the algorithm is part of it right um the biggest problem is that right now most things just surface right there that's the the default and so you surfacing can't be the answer so we lose things under the ice because they don't know where they are and so if we can get away to to talk to them um or at least to help let them know where they are and where to come to then that's really the that's really the answer all right i think we're at our time let's thank our speakers for this afternoon okay thank you speakers um so stay with me for one more minute we're going to take a break in just a moment um but we just want to set up the structure of the afternoon breakout sessions um before we go to break we're just going to have a look at the slide that shows you the organization of the breakouts this afternoon we're going to be using um sort of a workshop prioritization approach called the kj technique and some of you may have used this in breakout sessions before it's actually rather clever um it uses sticky notes that are both virtual and physical to identify group priorities um before there's discussion about the priorities so we'll spend the first 30 minutes in each session brainstorming or organizing our ideas as individuals and then the second 30 to 40 minutes clustering those ideas into priorities and then discussing those priorities and whether anything was left out that you may have noticed this morning we talked about solid earth and we talked about sea level and we spoke about science and we spoke about capabilities and those will be the focal points of the breakout sessions as well so first uh please decide if you'd like to participate in a breakout room session on solid earth which is related to the first session from today or if you'd like to participate in one on sea level rise which was related to our second session today once you've identified the session you're interested in please go to the room listed here that corresponds to that thematic area and please do it by the first letter of your last name so in other words um a through m under solid earth would go to room 118 whereas um m through z would go to room 120 okay and if you find you go to a room and it's super full virtually or physically and you want to switch that's okay so um if you uh sorry if you're a moderator facilitator or rapid tour you should report to your assigned room which is shown here a reminder that the rapid tour will be reporting back at the end of today's session their interpretation of the discussion to the full group when we come back in main session so please take notes and prioritize or highlight as best as you can and please everybody report to your room by three o'clock and then come back to the auditorium to report findings by 430 and I'm happy to answer any questions if that's not clear to people that clear everybody just wants to get to coffee I get it okay all right let's break for 15 minutes and we'll get to our rooms by three o'clock thank you everybody I'm going to resurrect us um first I just want to take one minute and acknowledge not just the hard work of the committee members especially Alan the co-chair but all of the academy staff who literally have done a herculean lift in a matter of months scripted us to the nines this week have done a beautiful job pulling together expert speakers you guys have done a fabulous job today um and just literally have kept us completely on track so thank you everybody okay now comes the fun part as if the rest wasn't fun already we will now hear from the rooms each rooms rapid tour rapid tours please if you're in the room um or virtually come sit on the stage you're up at the table I want to remind everybody that the report back presentations are not necessarily the personal ideas of the rapid tour nor the committee but rather the collective ideas from the individual breakout groups and I understand somewhat very smoothly some are a little bit more hairy so bear with everybody as we craft the message um so if um the folks from room 118 are here let me see I'm gonna abs check for a second who that was was it solid earth so so my understanding is solid earth did all the virtual and in person together in one general session yes okay and who is the report out okay come on up lucky winner so I get the time for all three groups yes you do right and I did try to pass this off on to someone else but I lost okay okay so all three of the solid earth groups met together and so and as a result of our padlet exercise we identified the following items as our major science drivers so our group is interested in studying the heat flux and heat flow beneath Antarctica and around the Antarctic margin so that includes the study of volcanism uh crustal geology um major tectonic boundaries and how they might conduct heat up to the surface and how heat flow impacts the base of the Antarctic ice sheet we're interested in the role of tectonic boundaries and faulting on ice sheet processes and routing groundwater our group is interested in mapping the earth's structure which includes its layers its rheology mantle viscosity which impacts glacial isostatic rebound rates and understanding the geodynamo okay so the ice breaker capabilities needed to achieve those science goals include multi beam mapping and there we're interested in looking at sea floor geomorphology uh past records of ice sheet interaction with the seabed for ice past ice sheet thicknesses for mapping the surface expressions of tectonic boundaries and also for selection of coring targets we needed a variety of over-the-side capabilities for sample collection for deploying instrumentation recovering instrumentation every all of the different things that you heard about in the talks this afternoon uh coring and drilling are high priorities for past records of the Antarctic cryosphere uh which as you heard from mo has impact on wire size winch and a-frame capabilities um underway geophysics are also high priorities for our group and we're using this very broadly to include things like gravity magnetics and sediment imaging while the ship is in motion seismic profiling using air guns and recovering data from deployed instruments such as moorings and ocean bottom size monitors all right and then we figure that ice breaking is a given so we put that off in a separate category but we'd like to reinforce that ice breaking is just a really critical capability to access challenging heavy sea ice areas thank you nice job pulling together multiple sessions that was great okay so uh i think now we're going to hear next from the session on sea level that met in the board room board room is that correct okay and um the rapid tour is natalia govans is that correct do i have that right okay oh you're gonna come up together okay sorry thank you okay so the main goal of this session was to focus on uh knowing as soon as possible how much and how fast sea level will rise and there is a discussion that a transdisciplinary approach is needed and sometimes it was challenging to order one thing above the other because we really need both uh so the science priorities uh were ocean heat transport there was some focus on circumpolar deep water here and the regions identified were the front of the ice shelf and ice shelf cavity the continental shelf break and the grounding zone and um there was some debate about the order of the above three and the suggestion that we should consider them all as one but they might need different uh field capabilities uh the second priority was atmosphere ocean forcing so both the modern and current um and as well as the paleo where the paleo included centennial to millennial timescales um and beyond so past warm periods in the deeper time uh which would come from ice sediment rock cores and then the recent long term so the 20th century especially and sort of pre satellite and pre and instrumental records uh the second the the next one was the fate of melt water so how is this feeding back on circulation whereas the water going uh where will this melt water be what will it be influencing in 20 to 30 years from now and then solid earth uplift so both the question will uplift slow or halt the grinding line retreat uh in the future and uh the point that every measurement of mass balance on the Antarctic ice sheet includes an estimate of uplift in gia uh that we currently um don't know very well yeah i'll hop in on the capabilities that we identified as priorities so first is the having multi-platform year-end access to sea ice um and then access to the adjacent continent price outcrop and subglacial records the ever-present discussion of needing helicopter access um next is the capability to to drill on the seafloor including the sort of beginnings of that process which includes geophysical surveys for site selection um and then very clear need for for ROV and other autonomous systems support um i think that captures much of what we discussed and then we sort of had the broader point again here yeah so at the end we came back to the question of what do we really need more broadly to know how much and how fast and for that um there is a need for not only more observations but sustained funding and support to be able to build the capacity to integrate all of these new observations with modeling and develop model capabilities to improve projections and this sort of funding needs to be not attached to short-term grants that are dependent on getting a high-impact paper out really quickly but really extra support that continues and is sustained on longer time scales yeah thank you so um i have a thought that we don't have to address right now but maybe after the next um repertoire report out we could do it i wonder to what extent and this is not my field the science priorities are the capabilities that are listed from each of the breakout groups actually address the science priorities that are listed do you see what i mean like are we if we were to give a comprehensive exam question to our graduate students and say here's your science priority what do you need observationally or whatever to address this would we have those covered yes you have your right right right yeah i was thinking well why don't why don't we let the next repertoire go and i don't want to lose that point because i think a bad assumption for all of us and i do it too is to assume something's there right and not listed okay sorry um thank you to um Natalia and peter over to url wilson who was um in the sea level session that met virtually and they did a fabulous job url uh hello um so i'll do my best to summarize a very lively discussion um we had in our session and so um we have um we organized our ideas into two separate themes of science priorities and um capabilities and much like the the previous session um one theme that can't one sort of resounding idea was the idea of how fast and how much um and and and and that we thought wrapped up a lot of the ideas we have in mind and so with regard to science priorities um we highlighted um broadly speaking ice shelf um ocean processes near the grounding zone as the the most critical and and within that um we there were questions that came up such as um you know very basic questions such as you know what is the basal melting rates in these different regions how do they vary over different timescales how do they vary spatially um what are um potential stabilizing feedbacks um for ice shelf retreat and so forth um and the one thing that um came up a lot is just the idea that you know there's so many unknown unknowns and um and there were there's a sense that you know there was just there still needs to be a lot more observations before we can really ask like very pointed scientific questions um and on the second point um ocean sea ice meltwater processes um this is really getting at um the the the processes that bring warm circumpolar deported to the shelf and um people highlighted um mechanisms such as um the potential feedbacks between polineas and um and um ocean heat loss and that potentially setting up a feedback um where um cdw can stay on the shelf and um and contribute to melting long term um and then the third point um was about the fate of east east Antarctica um this is something we didn't get to discuss too much but um there was a sense that for longer term for a longer term vision over decades um we really need to think about how to expand our observational capabilities in this region and so on the capability side um the the the the the the big theme that came up rose on top was the idea of um just better logistics and access to these regions and um and on the on the topic of logistical support um people we've had several people highlighted the need for better international collaborations and um how much of these collaborations are happening very on a very personal level where individual pis make ad hoc agreements without international partners and so there was a sense that there needs to be higher level agency agency level um communication and and collaborations to facilitate these international efforts um there was the lively discussion about the about the use of helicopters and how best to leverage them um on one hand everyone acknowledged that helicopters can greatly expand their capabilities or scientific capabilities on the ice um a human on the ice can do a lot more than any drone or rover um can accomplish um but at the same time um there um it was clear that these um potential platforms are underutilized at least on on the us side of things and um and one of the things that we thought that needs to happen is that these helicopters if they're if they're going to be utilized they need to be readily available so that ps can plan around them and and design their science around their around them being there um and also um there was a there um there's an identified need that we also need to take advantage of um icy move icy moon missions that are developing autonomous means of serving the ice and we can leverage that here and on on on um in Antarctica um and lastly there were a few things that kind of popped up that we didn't know how to um just place um in categories categorically speaking and one of them being how to use models and how to use integrate models in in both addressing scientific questions and also guiding observational um work um so I'll stop there thank you thank you Earl that was great um so uh I don't want to uh co-chair push us to the last minute today just because we have extra time but I have a question I I wonder if in the solid earth one um it came up any discussion about um like ocean worlds so to speak and whether there was a conversation about the relationship of studying this planet for analogs on other planets or other heavenly bodies any discussion on that cross fertilization with that yes oh yeah because we have online people forgive me sorry about that um there was one uh very short uh talking about uh how to utilize the geophysical uh infrastructure to detect the ocean water temperature change okay but nothing about like uh icy moons of other planets okay just curious I just am always trying to get communities to start thinking about working together in cross disciplinary fashion um so I don't know if there's any other comments anybody felt compelled to make what's really nice is in the science priorities and in the capabilities I see some common threads which is great um it's about integrating those and making sure they can they can be solid feedback to the academies and to to NSF and to the committee subcommittee looking at the ARB in particular any closing parting thoughts oh somebody's waving in the back yes oh sorry uh I didn't bring any of what you just asked for about about ocean worlds up because I was at a meeting about Antarctica but all of the vehicle stuff we showed was actually originally funded as development by NASA um through through its p-star program so um and that's the a lot of that development as well so it's definitely in all of this stuff okay and nothing oh that's great thank you other comments closing thoughts yes okay ocean world okay because I know a lot of uh some of the PR uh but investigators actually is using the Antarctic boundary to test some of the platform uh payers for ocean world okay no thank you for that any other parting thoughts comments all right so um thank you everybody I think that marks the end of our first day of our workshop a reminder to the um invited speakers and committee members to join us for dinner at six o'clock please plan on arriving at the building between 9 15 and 9 30 tomorrow morning as we'll start promptly at 9 45 and thank you everybody wonderful first day