Family Theatre presents James Cagney, Jean Cagney, and Ruth Hussie. From Hollywood, the Mutual Network in Cooperation with Family Theatre presents The Mental Blocks, starring James Cagney and Jean Cagney. And now, here's your hostess, Ruth Hussie. Family Theatre's only purpose is to bring to everyone's attention a practice that must become an important part of our lives if we're to win peace for ourselves, peace for our families, and peace for the world. Family Theatre urges you to pray, pray together as a family. And now, to our transcribed drama, The Mental Blocks, starring James Cagney as Hank and Jean Cagney as June. Is this the home of Professor George Rogers? I'm Professor Rogers. Can I help you? Well, yes. I'm Hank. I'm Henry McKenna, June's older brother. Why, of course. How do you do, Mr. McKenna? There's a definite family resemblance. Do come in, come in. Hi, I was just passing through town. Journal be delighted. She's over at my campus office just now, but I expect her back shortly. Here, sit down. Sit down. Thanks. Well, the last letter I had from her, she said you were writing a book. How's it going? You know how those things are pretty slow. It's a very new branch of psychology. What's that? Psychokinesis. Oh? It's a study of the degrees of influence which the human mentality can be made to exert upon inanimate objects. Oh, well. That's grand. It sounds very interesting. It keeps me busy. By the way, how is your paleontological work progressing? My what? June's told me all about you. She's very proud of your accomplishments as a paleontologist. Oh, well, yes, yes. Well, I keep busy. You know, I can't tell you how warmly we feel about your system, Mr. McKenna. We? Sally and I. She's my little girl. Oh, yes. Well, June, she's a doll. I want to tell you she's been just wonderful as a friend, student. Incidentally, she's going to make a first-rate psychologist before she's through. Well, I know that's what she always wanted. And I hope you haven't come to steal her away from us. Me? Oh, yes. She's told us about those expeditions you go off on, searching for new treasures. She has? Oh, yes, indeed. As a matter of fact, there's something I'd like to ask you. Oh, it's probably she and Sally. No, excuse me. I'll bet you'll be surprised to see her. Yeah, I guess she will. Well, back so soon. Hi, Daddy. Hi, sweetheart. Oh, we ran all the way. Uh, June, come here. I've got something to show you. Me? You? Can I see it too? Well, I think that might be arranged. Uh, would you step into the vestibule here, sir, please? Oh, George, what is this? Remember me, sis? Oh. How are you, June? Oh, wonderful. Just wonderful. Well, I thought you were in Nevada. Oh, yes, I was, but nothing turned up. Oh, I see. Oh, Hank, I don't think you've met Sally. Sally Rogers. Hi. How do you do? How's the sister of mine treating you? Good. Do you play part cheesy? Part cheesy? The game, part cheesy. We play it all the time. Well, uh, tell the truth. I haven't played that lately, no. I'm afraid my daughter is building you up for an invitation to lose your shirt, Mr. McKenna. Oh, Daddy, don't tell him. Don't tell me why. All right, we'll keep it a surprise. Uh, uh, come on. I'll finish up the game with you. Just the two of us? Yeah, that's right. June hasn't seen her brother for a long time. Let's give them a chance to get reacquainted. You and June will be staying for dinner, Hank. Oh, well, I, uh, I hate to impose. Nonsense. We insist, don't we, Sally? We insist. Come on.  You can't. I never... They, uh, they seem to be real nice folks. Oh, yes. He's the, he's the first college professor I ever met. What is he, uh, a widower? Mm-hmm. What happened, Hank? Broke again? Almost. What do you mean by almost? I got $23 to my name. Oh. What was it this time, the dice table? Mostly. Hank, when would you learn? Look, I didn't come here for a lecture. I know what you came for. Don't I always pay you back? Oh, that's not the point. Well, then what is the point? A man of your talent and intelligence wasting his life as a professional gambler. That's the point. It's, it's just shameful. Well, I'm not ashamed of it. I know a lot of very ethical guys who make their living as, uh, sportsmen. Are you down to $23 making a living? It's no disgrace to be poor. Oh, Hank, I... Oh, I know I shouldn't be talking to you like this. You've been just wonderful about helping me through school and... I wasn't going to bring that up. I was not going to bring that up. But don't you think it's time you settled down? I'll settle down when I make my 50 or go completely broke. You've been saying that for years. I came close within $3,000 of it. Not two months ago. Oh, congratulations. I'm proud of you. Well, speaking of being proud, what was it you told the professor I am? A paleo... paleo... Oh, paleontologist. That's someone who specializes in the study of fossils and prehistoric skeletons. And you told him that's what I did? Well, not exactly. I, I said you were interested in old bones. Oh, very cute. Now, now what happens if he gets me some scientific rhubarb? Oh, he won't. Don't worry. Well, I'm not sticking around to see. If you can let me have a couple of hundred... Oh, please, Hank, stay for dinner anyhow. I want you to get to know Georgia a little better.  Mm-hmm. He tells me it's mutual, too. Looks like a fine guy. But I think I better be moving along. But I can't get the money for you until tomorrow morning anyhow. The bank's closed. Please, Hank, for me? All right. Come on, we can help with the dinner. Oh, don't tell me he does his own cookie. It's just the last few days. His house keep has been ill.  One more roll, and I'm the winner. What number do you need, Sally? Six, see? One, two, three, four, five, six, and I'll have my last man home. Even money says she will. Hank. That'd be a very good bet right now, Hank. Here I go. Five and one? I win again. You, uh, you mean you always win? I'm the world's champion Parcheese player. When you play with June and me? By the way, how many games does that make it, honey? 38 in a row, three more, and we'll break the record. She's won 38 straight games? That's right. Her last winning streak was 41. Well, how do you like that? Incidentally, June, the 4-2 ratio is dropping in the sixes. There's no doubt about it. Oh, wonderful. I have the figures right here. 14-4-2s against 37-5-1s. It's just for this last game. Why, that's almost a 60% increase. Let's play another one. We will not. It's time for dinner. Ah. What did I tell you? One game a day. Now, you go help June. Come on, young lady. It's your turn to cut the French fries. We're gonna have the thin ones or the fat ones. That's up to you. You're the cutter. Well, sit down, Hank. Thanks. Uh, how about a glass of sherry for dinner? Oh, fine. Come on. There you are. Mm-hmm. Thanks. Say, uh, what's the story on that part cheesy game? Is it just a joke you play on Sally letting her win? Oh, no. On the contrary. It's quite serious. We've been compiling data on those games for over a year now. Data? Yeah. For the book I'm doing on psychokinesis. Oh, that's, that's the way the, uh... The way in which the human mentality can be made to affect inanimate objects, like dice. You, uh, you mean how the numbers will come up? Exactly. Go, uh... No, no. No, really. I'm certainly not the only man in the country conducting experiments of this kind. The results of countless tests demonstrate clearly that the mind can actually be a controlling factor in things like this. You mean if you want a roll of seven, you'll roll one? Oh, it's certainly not that simple, but given the correct mental attitude, the right atmosphere, and a strong determination to make a certain number appear on the dice, you can at least refute quite a few laws of mathematical probability. Oh, whoey. I've tried a roll. I mean, I've seen men try to roll a certain number in, uh, uh, gambling places. I've seen them try all night, and it never comes up. Did everyone around the dice table want them to make that number? Well, no. Lots of people were betting against them. Well, there you are. That atmosphere was wrong, and so very likely was their own mental attitude. What's that got to do with it? Well, I don't imagine you've ever been in many professional gambling casinos. Oh, no, no, no. Well, on any of those visits, have you ever watched a player who, in the parlance of the game, was hot? Hmm, yes. Has it ever occurred to you why he was hot? Well, he was just having a lucky night. You've heard people say, haven't you, sitting down to a game of chance, I feel lucky tonight? Yes. That's just another way of saying their mental attitude is attuned to win. Well... Put a person like that at a dice table, and he may start to win. But what? What if people bet against him? You may not have noticed, but when a player is hot, most people do not bet against him. They'll bet for him, and they'll root for him. Hmm, you know... you know that's right? You know, in Sally's case a few moments ago, her mental attitude was that of a winner. It always isn't pretty easy. And when she rolled that six, mentally everyone present was rooting for her to roll it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, in addition to that, Sally's a very good subject. She's a child. She's willful, and she has the faith of a child. She believes that if she wants to win hard enough, she will. That's psychokinesis. It's almost like voodoo. Nonsense, Hank. Man's mind is a powerful instrument. Who can say how powerful? If he learns how to use it.  I think so. I'll say this much. She gives the law of averages an awful drumming. Are you two gentlemen going to upset the table or not? Right with you, June. George, did Hank tell you he's leaving tomorrow? No, I'm sorry to hear that. So you've both got a lot of getting acquainted to do in a short time, I'm afraid. Well, I was just thinking, sis. I might stay over for a few days after all. Oh, really? Yeah, I could use a little vacation. Why don't you stay here with us, Hank? Well... Sure, we've got all sorts of room. We'd love to have you. And I'll teach you how to play pricey easy. I could use a few lessons, honey. But Hank, are you sure that staying over won't interfere with your work? Oh, no, no. In fact, I've got a hunch. I've got a hunch it'll do a lot of good. Well, here we are. Uh, Sally, now, before we go into my friend's hotel room, let's be sure we've got everything straight. Yes, Uncle Hank. In the first place, what's your name? I don't have a name. I'm just a poor little orphan. I never talk strangers. That's the girl. And how long have you known me? Almost a week. Oh, no, not really. How long? How long did we decide you knew me? Oh, two years. You've been like a daddy to me. And what else? Nothing else. You don't know anything? Remember now, this is all in the interest of science. All for science. And not a word to Aunt June or your daddy. Not a word. Good girl. Well, here we go. Who's there? It's me, Charlie, Hank McKenna. Come on in. Everything okay? Everything is very irregular. You know, I wouldn't do this for just anyone. You called Harry Wilson in Vegas? I did. Well, he told you I was all right. The fact remains, opening up a game for one man and a small child is by me most unorthodox. It's not your game. You're just Aunt Wilson's payroll. The fact remains, I frown on this kind of thing. It's all for science. Huh? What did I tell you? What's she talking about science? Look, are we going to stand here arguing all day or can we get started? All right, all right. Right over here. Now you can choose any two. They all get the same numbers on them. Okay. Give me twenty bucks worth of white chips. Twenty white. All set? All set. All right. Five on the seven. Fivey sevens coming off a seven, six and one. Pay to shoot it. Let him ride. Hey, let some ride. Come on out again. All set? All set. Four and three, seven again. Pay to shoot it. What do you think? Let him ride? I'm with you. Let him ride. A lot of man feels hot. The man lets him ride. Coming out again. Coming off a seven. Four and three. Pay seven. Not bad, huh? Oh, very good indeed. You are not worried, are you? Who's worried? I like to see people win. Even when they're playing against you? You're not playing against me, mister. I'm just a hired hand. I never gamble. Glad to hear it. What's the bet? Let it ride. A man lets it ride. Coming out again. Coming off a seven. Six and one. This isn't getting on your nerves, is it? Oh, no, no, no. It's very interesting. Pay seven.  Oh, no, no. Very well behaved. You kind of bring them good luck, don't you, honey? If that's what you want to call it. What does she mean by that? Well, it's a little more than good luck. It's a system. She wants me to win. That's nice. So she wishes that every time I roll, I'll roll a seven. Mm-hmm. That's all there is to it. That's the system? That's the system. Tell me something. Whose idea was it?  What kind of system is that?  Oh, I've got to want to roll a two. That's very important. Yeah. Get this guy, honey. He's got to want to roll it. Well, he does. It won't work if he doesn't. What won't work? The system. Ah, come on. I've made four passes in a row. What do you call that? Luck, blind luck. I'd like to see you make another. Do you really mean that? Yeah. You've got to really want me to make it, or I won't. You know that, don't you? You've got to want me to roll a seven. You can't want me not to. That's important. All right, all right. I want you to roll a seven. I wish you would roll a seven. I'd like to see it, honest. Okay? If you want it, and we want it, I'll do it. Oh, can I make a bet? Bet, bet. That's what I'm here for, bet. It won't change your mind. You'll still want me to roll a seven. It's important. If you want him to roll it, honey, believe me. Okay. Let him ride. Four and three. You see, honey, I told you, I wanted him to. I believe you. Well, what do you think now? Oh, this is a little marvel. You don't mind if I keep winning? It ain't my money. Besides, I'm fascinated. That's all I wanted to know. Let him ride. Well, another lamb chop, Hank? Oh, no, no, thanks. This is fine, George. Fine. June, Sally? I'm full. Oh, plenty for me, George. Well, tell me, where did your two vagabonds go this afternoon, the zoo? Oh, no, no. We, uh, we just took a walk. And then we played with the dice. The dice? Uh, it's a matter of fact.   Oh, no, no. I like it. Who won, Sally, again? Well, yeah, she, uh, uh... We both won, every game. Oh, how could that happen? Well, you see, I, uh... I'll get it. If that's Professor Collins, he's a bit early. Yes, gentlemen? I understand Hank McKenna's staying here. Oh, it's someone for you, Hank. Who should I say his colleague? Wilson, Harry Wilson. He knows me. Oh, brother. Hank, what's wrong? I'll tell him you're here. Look, Uncle Hank, it's Charlie from this afternoon. Shh! Who's Charlie? Friend of mine. Uh, Hank, these two gentlemen... Yeah, I know, I know. Well, hello, bright boy. Hi, Wilson. Hello, Charlie. Don't talk to me. Is that the kid? Yeah, I told you she was no major boss. It's a real kid.   I won't be just shooting off my mouth. If you don't come up with that 18 grand. Just a minute. What's this all about? It's just a little misunderstanding. I wouldn't fly all the way in from Vegas just for a little misunderstanding. I won that money, Harry.  Who are you kidding?  Some eyes you've got. Letting one guy and a 10-year-old kid snooki out of 18 grand. Mr.  I don't know what you're talking about, but she can't possibly be involved. Oh, yes, I can. What did I tell you? Hank, where did you take Sally this afternoon? Now, cool down, sis. Where did you take her? He took her to the sixth floor to Metropolitan Hotel where I was running a little games. Oh, you didn't. You wouldn't, Hank. I was just trying to prove something. Something scientific. I sure proved that 18 grand's worth. Hank, I can't believe it. You took a child. A child to a gambling place. Oh, they were just the three of us. It was very homie. Homie? Well, it was, lady. I run a very dignified game. You run a very dignified giveaway. What do you do? Fall asleep? Boss, I give you my way to watch them like a hawk. It's all done with the mind. Hey, the mind. I've seen little kids like this before. They can make a paradise, get up, and cook breakfast. But she never touched a dice. Look, Wilson, I can explain this. I think you owe us all an explanation, Hank. Oh, okay, George. So, maybe I shouldn't have taken Sally up there this afternoon. I had a swell time.  But, well, when you first explained the psycho-kinesis to me, I, well, it seemed like a surefire way to clean up. Hey, that's the way I couldn't think of, boss. It's like that's psychology. Collegy, smology. You got rocked. Just a minute, Mr. Wilson. Go on, Hank. So, Sally and I practiced rolling sevens together all this week until we got so I could roll one almost every time. I see. And then you decided to put this newly-acquired talent to a practical test, is that it? Yes, and it worked. Really worked. 26 passes in a row. Sally? I won $18,000 in less than three hours. Why didn't you mean your stole? It was completely on the up and up, and I can prove it to you. What do you mean? You got a pair of dice. Sure. Are they okay? Of course they're okay. You think I'm a crook or something? Let's have them. Here, when it got in mind. I'll show you. Push that tablecloth back away. All right. Now, everybody concentrate on the number seven. What is this? It wakes, boss. He did it all afternoon. Oh, boy, that's so... All I want you to do is give it a try. Wilson, just concentrate on the number seven. Say to yourself, I want McKenna to roll a seven. This is crazy. Just give it a try. Go ahead, boss. What can you lose? Okay, okay. I'm concentrating. George? Yes, okay. Sally? I'm with you. Judy? I won't have any part of this. Judy, I'm trying to prove something.  I could cry. Oh, please, June. It's, it's all right. Please cooperate. I'm in a jam. All right. All right. I'm concentrating. Seven. Okay. Okay. Here we go. Well, I'll... Six and one. What'd I tell you, boss? We did it all afternoon. We. What do you mean, we? Oh, Charlie, it was a great help. Helping you was helping? Wait a minute, boss. You don't understand. And I suppose you meant for 50 percent? No, no, no. Mr. Wilson, I think all your friend means is that he was not in mental opposition to the idea of Hanks rolling a seven. Yeah, that's right. That's right. What he said? Well, you should have been a mental opposition. What do I pay you for? You told me you liked to see people win. Win, yes. Send me to the poor house, no. I was just following orders. Well, you're fired for following orders. And I still don't believe this punk about rolling dice with a mind. You just saw a demonstration. I'm not interested in demonstrations. I want my 18 grand back. All right, Wilson. I'll give you a chance to get it back. What are you talking about? You're a gambling man. I'll roll you for the whole 18,000. Shoot the works. Fair enough. On one condition. What's that? That you don't mentally root for me to lose. Ha! Root? Who roots? I'll let the dice take care of you. Word of honor? If you win, you win. If you lose, you lose. The dice do all my wishing for me. Okay. Everybody ready? I'm dying to see this. Come on, seven. Everybody concentrate on a big seven for Uncle Hank. Be there. Five and one. Six is the point. Pick them up. Six. I don't get it. We were concentrating on seven. Wilson. Don't look at me. I wasn't thinking anything. But all the rest of us were thinking seven. Charlie, seven. Sally, George. Seven. Joony. I was thinking what I was thinking. Joony, you can't do this to me. It's my mind and I can think anything with it that I want. Holy cats, it's 18,000 bucks. Come on, come on, ball them. Get off the dime. But she's rooting against me. So it's a free country. Roll that ice. Joony, please, please think seven. Taking a 10-year-old child into a place like that. I'll make it up to her. I'll buy her a pony. Don't try to bribe me. I'll give up gambling. I promise I'll never touch another pair of dice as long as I live. Cross your heart. Scouts on her. All right. Wonderful, wonderful. Here we go. Be there. Be there. Just like this afternoon. Hey Hank, but remember. Leave him alone. Be there. How did I tell you? That's right. Seven. But your point was six.  Oh no. Six was the point. Oh no. No, no. I forgot. I forgot. You told me to concentrate on seven. It can't be. It can't be. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm right for you, 18 grand. Hank, I tried to tell you. I can't believe it. Wilson, give me a break. One more roll. Double or nothing. Double what? You cleaned up. I've got $23. Here, we'll start low. We'll start nothing, Hank McCann. You just finished promising me you'd never touch another pair of dice as long as you live. But that was if I won. It was not if you won. And concentrate on seven. That was the wrong number. I give you the wrong number. That's not my fault. You made a promise. Yeah, it's on her. And a promise is a promise. Come on, McCann, at the 18Gs. All right. All right. I'm licked. It's all there. Now, take your words for it. Oh, this is awful.  It'll do you good. I don't think you'll have much trouble, Hank. I know two or three positions right here in town that you'd be ideally suited for them. Yeah, but what am I going to do for a recreation? There's always part cheesy. Part cheesy. Even that, I can't play. Oh, I think we can make an exception there, Hank. How come? Well, in part cheesy, you don't really have to touch the dice. No? No. From now on, you can just roll them onto the board from that little cup. Yeah. Come on, Uncle Hank. I'll let you win this time. This is Ruth Hussey again. It must be true, ladies and gentlemen, that every normal, decent person wants to be right has some regard for his fellow man and loves his country. I know there are enemies within, powerful perhaps, but far from numerous. Most people have good hearts, and yet we do differ violently as to precisely what is best for ourselves and our fellow man and our country. These differences and sometimes angry contentions are usually about matters of policy. I mean, which of two mere policies is better for the nation? But can we really think that plans and policies are going to decide our fate, or do we realize that all our problems, personal as well as national, are basically spiritual and must be solved first on that level? And that's why family theater every week goes right to the root of the matter. The essence, the kernel of all problems and reminds us of our dependence on our Heavenly Father and tells us week after week that just exactly as the family that prays together stays together, so a world at prayer is a world at peace.  From Hollywood, family theater has brought you transcribed the mental blocks starring James Cagney and Jean Cagney. Ruth Hussey was your hostess. Others in our cast were Ted DeCorsia, Jack Krushan, Pat McGeehan and Gayan Kelly. The script was written and directed by John T. Kelly with music composed and conducted by Harry Zimmerman. This series of family theater broadcasts is made possible by the thousands of you who feel the need for this type of program, by the mutual network which has responded to this need and by the hundreds of stars of stage screen and radio who give so unselfishly of their time and talent to appear on our family theater stage to them and to you, our humble thanks. This is Tony LaFranco expressing the wish of family theater that the blessing of God may be upon you and your home and inviting you to be with us next week when family theater will present Night Caller starring Anne Blythe and Raymond Burr. Join us, won't you? Family theater has broadcast throughout the world and originates in the Hollywood studios of the world's largest network. This is the Mutual Broadcasting System.


e questions that you have? This is my contact information if you need to reach out to me. 800 number here in Nebraska you can call me at. I'll go to our main front desk. The transfer to my line, I'm not here. I have voicemail.  And there's my email address too. As I said, if you are not a Nebraska library, each state has their own state e-rate coordinators. Look for who yours is and contact them for specifics about how to do e-rate in your state. Also, if you're a school, like I said, the basics here cover everything, but there was a lot, of course, specific to public libraries since I'm the work for the public libraries. In Nebraska, go to the Department of Education. Sue Ann Witt is their person. Other states, I'm not sure you'd have to check and see. Some places it's the same person does both schools and libraries, and some it's separated, so I don't know you'd have to check on yours. Any last minute questions while you still have me here? All right. Okay, then that will wrap it up for this year's e-rate training for the new e-rate. Lots of changes. Yes. Oh, somebody's saying my head is spinning. Yeah. Lots of changes. There's a lot to e-rate. It's an ongoing program. It goes throughout the whole year. Yes, you do have to keep track of it throughout the year. Lots of changes coming this year. Hopefully, this will help guide you through some of them. If you do need any help, call me. Email me. That's what I'm here for you for our Nebraska libraries to make sure you get through this process and make sure you get your e-rate money. That's our goal. On that, thank you very much.


lot of litigation a lot of financial exposure a lot of the information is really intentionally not shared just due to liability and we respect that we're not encouraging more lawsuits but there are more people getting hurt and sadly they are they are filing lawsuits so we will we'll follow up with your office excellent we look forward to that thank you and Mr. Frank will conclude with you and Mrs. Frank thank you for coming and Katie thank you for coming obviously we've talked about the subject in the past spent a lot of time on this issue I do think as I mentioned earlier there is an inevitability to this issue getting solved which is a positive the frustration is the time at this point and I don't see the reason why we can't just be done with it the solution that came out of the voluntary standards process was to agree to technical changes that would affect only stock products to me that same technical solution whatever that answer is should be applied to custom products I think that if there were the will as soon as tomorrow that could be written in you can have an effective date that could be reasonable but why that can't actually be written in now I have no honest I just don't know I don't understand and so I hope you can continue your advocacy the chairman knows how much this issue has been important to me throughout the years we've worked together I was grateful that she joined me in voting for the ANPR I'm hopeful you'll talk to her about the role that she can continue to play with the voluntary standards group she has a close relationship with industry when they announced that they were coming out with this revised standard she asked them to move up the effective date they instantaneously did that shows the influence that she has and so I hope you'll work with her I think if she put out a very strong call to industry to solve the custom problem tomorrow they would do it and so I think we're close but we need more work and hopefully we can get there sooner rather than later thank you very much no more further questions thank you madam chair thank you again to Mr. Huber, Mr. Gregg, Mr. Kenzie or Mr. Frank for being here today for sharing your time and your expertise and your very compelling stories and experiences to inform the commission so I thank all of you very much we really do greatly appreciate the panel as well as the other three panels for all the information you have shared with us and for taking the time to join us today as a reminder the record will be kept open for one week so for any of the information that may have been requested or any additional information that folks would like to provide to the agency please do so I want to acknowledge for the record that we did receive additional written comments from people who are not able to testify here today those comments were received by the Real Pollock Nelson Independent Safety Consulting, LLC Bob Wilke, President of the Hobby Manufacturers Association Dan Mustico, Vice President Covered in Marketing Affairs of the Outdoor Power Equipment Institute Sarah Owen from UL David French, Senior Vice President Cover Relations from the National Retail Federation Kathleen McGwigan, Senior Vice President Retailers Toy Association Linda Kaiser, parents for window blind safety, Chris Lopresti, partner, an attorney, and lastly, James Daly, a child safety advocate. So their testimony, you can be sure, will be reviewed carefully and entered into the record as well. Finally, I want to thank today, this has been a long day for our staff. I want to thank our executive director and her staff, the office of the secretary, the office of facilities, the office of general counsel, and as always, John McGuggan from communications for their efforts to make today's public hearing run as smoothly as it did. Thank you again to all four of our panels, those who submitted written comments and everyone in attendance today, we end our watching online. This concludes the public meeting of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Thank you very much.


Are you ready? Are we ready? I see we're recording. Yep, ready whenever you are. Okay. Hello, everybody. The appointed hour at five o'clock PM has been reached and I welcome everyone to the meeting of the Amherst Design Review Board. I'm Catherine Porter, chair of the Design Review, Amherst Design Review Board, and I'm calling this meeting to order pursuant to Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order, suspending certain provisions of the open meeting lodge, ELC 30A section 18, and the governor's March 15, 2020 order imposing strict limitations on the number of people that may gather in one place. This public hearing of the town of Amherst Design Review Board is being conducted via remote participation. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but the public can attend tonight's virtual meeting by using the Zoom login information provided on the meeting agenda listed on the meeting calendar, which is provided on the town of Amherst website. We will begin with a roll call of the members of the Design Review Board who have been impaneled for the consideration of the items on tonight's agenda. Board members, please indicate yes or I when I call your name. Lindsay Schnarr. Yes. Janet Markward. Erica Zecos. Yes. Tom Long. Yes. And I would ask if there are any disclosures and I understand Jan's on her way so she can indicate when she's here. Also in attendance is Marine Pollock planner and staff liaison to the Design Review Board. The design review board was founded in the mid-20th century and its accompanying zoning regulations were created by town meeting in October, 1983. The charge and purpose of the Design Review Board under section 3.2 of the zoning bylaw is to reserve and enhance the town's cultural, economic and historical resources by providing for a detailed review of all changes in land use, the appearance of structures and the appearance of sites which may affect these resources. The Design Review Board exercises this responsibility by providing design review and recommendations to private applicants and permit granting boards within specific overlay zoning districts in the town center. The design review overlay district and the town common design review overlay district. Design review was also provided for town departments and permit granting boards with respect to town projects anywhere in Amherst which will result in substantial alteration to the form or appearance of a structure or site. All design review board meetings are open to the public and are recorded by town staff. Each meeting recording will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel for public viewing. The procedure is as follows. The petitioner presents the application to the board during the meeting after which the board will ask questions for clarification or additional information. And at this point, I need to inform anybody from the public who may be interested in attending tonight that Archipelago has requested that they not, we not discuss their proposal tonight. They are not ready. So as a result, we are not going to be discussing the Archipelago either project, DRB, FY2021-12 or DRB, FY2021-13. And I think that is all I need to say about our situation tonight. So having made that clear, I hope, and we have Jan Marquard, I think. Did Jan check in? I'm here. Yeah. Okay. All right. So you, okay. So you heard me Jan say we're not have, we're not going through. It's not going to have the review tonight or the hearing. So one item that we do need to attend to is finding another night for us to meet. And I think through all the doodles that Marine has been sending out, we did find one or two nights that seem to be appropriate. So Maureen, do you want to see if we can? Sorry. Oh, sure. So at least according to some recent doodle polls, members have indicated that they're available to continue this review. Of these applications on either Thursday, June 3rd, Tuesday, June 8th, and Monday, June 14th. I would add that. So Kyle Wilson, who represents Archipelago, sent an email to the DRB, probably about 430 today, asking to postpone tonight's review. And that he, if possible, could have your continued review to be held anytime after June 2nd. And that's when the planning board is continuing their public hearings relative to these applications. So again, the availability dates, at least that that were indicated before we're Thursday, June 3rd, Tuesday, June 8th, and Monday, June 14th. So if you want to just double check if those still. Those dates are still good for me. So I'm, I will add that we do have a meeting already scheduled for Monday, June 7th, for some other applications. So I just wanted to let you know in case you don't want to have a bunch of meetings in one week. So. What is tomorrow's meeting then? That is for the new restaurant that's being proposed at 17 Kellogg Avenue. Okay. And June 7th was. For that other Mexican restaurant. No, that. Originally that item was going to be on June 7th, but they. Asked if they could be pushed pushed up due to their, they would like to open if possible this weekend or next week. So. That's why we pushed up the June. Tomorrow's date for the new restaurant. So for June 7th, it will be the town of Amherst is proposing. Two new bike share locations. Right. And combine these things into a single meeting. We could if, if you, you know, if. And then there's two other items, which would be the town is also. Proposing signage at the West cemetery. And that needs to be reviewed on June 7th. And there's a third item. Go berry. Go berry is updating their branding. And so they would like the, or the town needs the DRB to review their proposed signage. So it doesn't really sound like we can. Combine them because the archipelago needs two hours and. The folks who are meeting with tomorrow. Asked to be sooner. And then the June. Seventh has a full agenda. Yeah. I think we're going to have to do a separate times. It's canceled tonight. So let's, why don't we start with the. First. Of those open dates. Okay. So. Maybe the sooner, the better, which one would that be? Marine. Would that be June? June 3rd. So that would be the night after the planning board meets regarding. The better or, you know, I'm just wondering, because are they going to want to put it off again? Or, you know, I don't want to keep meeting twice a week here. This is. Yeah. I hear you. So. Well, how about June 3rd? And then June 7th. And if, if archipelago or archipelago, however they say their name wants to change it, let us know and. And we'll push it to the 14th or whatever and not meet on the third. Cause. There's really no point to get together just to reschedule a meeting. Right. Well, we have the courses because of the charter we have to, as Marine said, we have to have the meeting tonight too. Because it was published. Yes. Yeah. So. Okay. So, so back to the schedule. I think. Any of those proposed evenings and the third, the eighth and the 14th. Is. Are good for you. Fine. Five to seven, five, five to seven. Yeah. I'm fine. How about, uh, Lindsay and Tom and, uh, Jan. I can be ready of them. Not all of them. Okay. We already have the seventh. That's about June the third. I would suggest the third has the first option. Okay. 14th as the second and the eighth as the third. That's how I would prioritize. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um, nevermind. I just looked at my calendar and I thought I had a night meeting on the third, but I don't. Um, so the third. And then the next site, it would be, uh, your preference, Lindsay would be the third or the 14th. I think so. Is that sound right to everybody? Just to not have. That's the earliest. That's the earliest we can, if we can't meet on the third, was that our next alternate time? Is that what you're saying? Was it something between there? 14th. Okay. And I would say that you, uh, there were some other dates that worked with you, but I also have other night meetings. So I had to sort of. Okay. Well, let's do the third. If everybody agrees, June the third. And, um, Okay. We'll see. Okay. Very good. And I did briefly speak to, uh, the applicant on the phone and I specifically asked him if, uh, what dates work with you? I said, since I have you on the phone, what dates work with you? And he said, I'm available anytime other than June 2nd. So. Okay. All right. Okay. Well, then. We've got this. Um, So now, uh, I'm going to, um, Marine, do you have any buddy in the, uh, out there in the public? For, for the general public. Uh, period. If we have any, if there's anybody. From the. Public who has a general comment that is not related to the archipelago project. We would invite you to make that comment. If you have any questions, please feel free to leave them in the comments section. Um, save your comments regarding the archipelago project until we meet. Uh, on, um, June 3rd. Okay. And, uh, so if there are any members of the public that wish to speak, you could press the raise your hand function or press star nine. If you're calling in from telephone from a telephone. Okay. We do have a, uh, we have someone. Um, who wants to speak. Um, if you have any questions, please feel free to leave them in the comments section. Um, if you have any questions that state your name and your address, um, you should be able to speak. Sure. Um, Thanks, Janet Keller of pulpit Hill road. Um, may I ask a question about the sequence of the meetings? Is that in order? Sure. Okay. So, um, um, I think we have a question on, um, in front of the planning board on, um, June two. And is there a chance that they would decide. Um, and rule on it on June two. And if so, would that preclude. You having. Comment before that. So Maureen, what's the. The planning board is continuing their public hearings relative to, um, The archipelago, uh, proposals. Um, the planning board is very interested in hearing, uh, The recommendations made by the design review board. So, uh, I believe that they would keep, uh, their public hearing open until they hear. Uh, from the design review board. Additionally, I think that. You know, they're. Uh, I think that, you know, I think that, um, Regardless of the DRB, I believe that there's still more things for the planning board to review. So. I think that there should be, you know, at least, uh, You know, two more, uh, meetings relative to the planning board. I mean, is there any way we as design review board can request. That they leave the meeting open. I mean, I think that they should have a meeting to, I mean, I think that they should have a meeting to why would we meet if they make their decision without hearing from us. So could we, Uh, If the, if the rest of the board members, uh, with. Um, Support that. That. We make an official request to the planning board. To, uh, Wait until we have reviewed the proposal. Uh, It does because we serve in an advisory capacity to the planning board. I think that. Yeah. They will have historical commissions recommendation yet either. And we're, oh really? Okay. We're separating back fence and the, um, cemeteries. So. Okay. So there'll be. Yeah. Okay. But you, you guys are more than welcome to. Uh, I think it's important to state that. You wish that the planning board. Uh, keep the public hearing open until the design review board. Has, you know, adequately reviewed the project and has. Provided recommendations to the planning board. Okay. I could probably do that as the chair. Send something to the planning board, but that, would that be. Yeah. You're on the planning board, right? Yeah. Okay. Good. I could write something up. All right. Good. Is that it did someone going though? Yeah, I don't think we have any decisions. As far as I could tell from what Chris. Mentioned at the last meeting was that there were several things that were still ongoing historic for being one of them. Um, several other things that are more, um, Uh, infrastructural and things like that. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I'll pass along. Hold them off. All right. Are there any other comments from the, uh, public. General. Comments not related to archipelago. You see anything. Okay. Well, then I don't see any other business for us tonight. Okay. Okay. So, um, You know, uh, here's one other thing you could do, which is on the agenda. Uh, it's the review. Uh, it's the approval of the meeting minutes, um, from last time. If you guys want to take care of that. Anybody. I honestly, I didn't go through them myself yet. Okay. Okay. Any other, uh, Any other business. Let me get put those minutes off. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm going to turn.  Tom, are you, did you move to? Yes. Okay. Iris been moved. Um, Seconded. Okay. It's moved and seconded. All right. We are adjourning. Thank you, everybody. Um, We'll see you tomorrow, Jen. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll be here. The timing.


Hello, everybody, and please, if you could add your names to the attendee list. The link is in the chat and we'll get started with this. Okay, the working group meeting today, Christian Blumback are one of our co-chairs has that flu. I'm not sure which fluid is, but we're wishing him well. And he is staying home and not available for today's call. So, if you could add your name to this attendee's list, that would be great. So we can keep track of who's here and where you're from. And we'll just drive through today's meeting. It may not take the full hour, but we'll see where we go. All right. So Vadim, you're here, which is great because Christian tapped you on the shoulder to give the OKD for update as well as Vadim has an OKD on GCP tour. So that we'll use that today to drive some conversations. And just a quick update on events, upcoming events. There still is not a date posted for KUKON EU. If it does happen, we will have a face to face OKD working group meeting there. We were going to hold a virtual OpenShift Commons gathering to replace the Amsterdam one, but we have now cancelled that, but we are having a Red Hat Summit OpenShift Commons gathering. And it will be virtual on April 27th. And I'm going to ask Vadim and Christian to pre-record and probably get Dusty to pre-record an OKD for the Dora CoroS talk. It won't be part of the agenda for the day. The agenda is very curated down to mostly customer talks in one state of OpenShift 4. And Kubernetes released talk just because we don't think people are going to watch an entire day long event, but we'll see. But they will watch stuff. And so we're going to add all of the talks that aren't getting broadcasts as part of that day. We're going to pre-record all of those and have them available. So we'll be doing that. And as far as I know, almost all of the other things over the next few months have been cancelled. They're postponed. But my offer to anyone here, if you've got a topic, whether it's OKD related or Fedora CoroS that you want to record, a briefing on, we're just basically taking all the content from the KubeCons and summit that aren't getting broadcast and pre-recording them and making them available on our YouTube channels, which is RH OpenShift. So that's sort of the state of events things here. Any questions? Comments about that? OK, cool. Pretty much the state of the universe. So maybe Vadim, if you could give us a little update on where we're at right now with OK Day 4 and see what are any of the blockers. If you want to share your screen. So here are the notes. There's been quite active two weeks for us. The biggest news is that we finally have a proper documentation on .okd.io. It's pretty much a carbon copy from OCP 4.3 documentation. So it has a lot of inaccuracies, a lot of mentions of RH CoroS. So what we would like you to do is to skim through those, find the parts which are irrelevant to Fedora CoroS, like IBM Z, and filebox to the OKD repo. We will arrange them together and ask OpenShift docs team to to get a priority on those. Later on, we would be able to, I'm not too familiar with documentation and the way they template things, but after a couple of tries, we would be able to submit quick fixes ourselves manually. Status of the platform support. So AWS vSphere UPI, a bare metal unknown to work. We've cycled quite a few bugs during that cycle, but those are pretty stable. We've finished the support for GCP API. In my case, Bootstrap Node did not get destroyed, but we need more information. And if that happens for everybody, that's the bug that we'll fix. Note that there is no official image uploaded to Fedora CoroS-controlled bucket yet. So for now, you would have to upload it yourself manually and override the path to it using Pashow and VAR. And I'll also be showing the installer process that later today. Next, Overt, Rev, and all things like, should also work. There is one bug. Folks have hit, it has a workaround, but we need to confirm that every other installation hits it as well, because I didn't hit it in my install. Hey, Vadim, when you say it. Oh, hello. Sorry about that feedback. That's Overt UPI, right? Or is that Overt IPI? That's Overt IPI. Oh, okay. Okay. So the IPI works. I might give that a try. That would be great to know. So next, also OpenStack IPI also work. I didn't try the UPI, but since UPI is pretty much what IPI does with modifications, that should also work, of course. That's more complex. The biggest pain point right now is Azure, because we're still blocked on tickets from Fedora. Hopefully, those would get results soon. On the beta status, we have a beta milestone. Currently, six open issues. Two of them would be tackled by upcoming MCO rebates. Three tickets are basically tracking issues in OCD for the Azure problems. And the Overt credential issues, as mentioned previously, is what we need confirmation, and hopefully it will be tackled soon. Next on the official release, where the main criteria is that we don't use Fork, Installer, and MCD, and we test upgrades. The upgrades are fairly easy to enable. We don't do that because we want to push to Quay first. And once it's done, we will enable upgrades and have them properly tested. The Forks is a bit more complex. We need to work with Installer team on the approach that, but we started working on Installer and MCO integration now, so hopefully it will be tackled soon. Okay, and by no Forks, you mean that if we're building the installer from source code, we don't have to use the Fcause branch anymore, but we'll be able to build from one of the release number branch or the master branch? Yes, correct. Also, you would file issues straight to either Bugzilla or Installer GitHub repo because that would affect the code that Installer team supports. So let's go with the questions on the status. No questions, do we? No, I'm very happy. I have a fully repeatable process now using bare metal UPI that I can create and destroy clusters and it is consistently successful. In what platform? I'm actually using Libvert with VBUC to emulate bare metal. I'm getting ready to publish fairly comprehensive docs on how to do it in my GitHub page that it's targeted to my internal team here. So it'll have a lot more instruction than you guys would need because it'll tell you how to install DNS and set up your buying server and everything. That's pretty good actually for just everyone. Yeah, so probably this weekend I'll have it done. If you troll around in the project on my GitHub site, the docs are all in there, but the readme doesn't link to them yet because there's still kind of work in progress. And I'm working now on making it work with fixed IP addresses, but we may have run into an F cost bug or something because it's not keeping the fixed IP addresses, but it works great with DHCP reservations. Yeah, persisting the static AP is a bit tricky because of the drug cart not saving them as network manager key files, but saving them as if conflicts and stories ignoring that. Yeah, that's basically what Fedora should fix, but we have a workaround for that. Yeah, yeah, you could just read the if configs. I don't know why we're not. What's stopping us from doing so? Those are legacy. The if config files from network manager reading and writing them. Why are those legacy? Yeah, drink those batch files.  At least that's what Fedora 31 wants us to do. Yep. But they don't have to be bash files. That's why they're declarative. It could just be, you know, read config things. They're not like Etsy network interfaces, which is actually a shell script that has to be executed to run, which by the way, if you never knew that today, you learned. That's not our call to make. We're following upstream and we're sticking to that. In any case, let's switch to the differential tool. Yeah, can we pause for a second, Betty? And can you go back to your notes for a second here? Because the last bit, I just, your notes file there. So for the release, how are we in terms of getting a beta release official out the door? Where are we at? I would like to wait for a question about the bugs we are hitting right now. The over bug being the most probably critical. We can leave with the bootstrap not being destroyed. That's pretty easy to tackle. And we'll give Azure a couple of days. I will contact Fedora Chorus guys about their progress on Azure. If we won't be able to tackle them in a couple of days, we will have to push that to release date and go to beta without them. So hopefully a week, maybe. Okay. So what I would like to see is if you can flag the whole group and especially me when the overt thing gets done and resolve properly, that we do some sort of beta announcement with or without Azure. We seem to have some consensus here that we've got good cross platform support. And if we could aim for next week, that would be great to do that announcement. And I'm wondering if I can coerce... Is it Charo who was talking or was that Neil that was talking about having success there a minute ago? I think that was... To taking some of the experience that you had and turning that into a public blog post and some content we can use in that Fedora magazine or just a regular old OpenShift.com blog. Oh, yeah. Actually, you could probably coerce me into doing that. My friend, Matt Bowling, he works on the consulting side of Red Hat. He's been trying to get me to do something like that for a while. Yeah, no, because it would be nice to have the announcement then coincide it with an external person writing a blog post about it. And I'm not sure where we would publish it, but yeah. And Chris is offering some editorial help as well. So I think... I know part of my problem with getting the Fedora magazine article out is just time and having at least a minimal amount of content to... I'm good at editing things and shifting things and getting the messages right, but if I don't have some technical content and links to it, it's just more blah, blah, blah from a talking head. And I haven't really actually managed to set up an OKD anywhere. So I don't know what to say other than the generic, hey, you can now do this and Fcause goes with this and then... What I'd like to do is if we can get to next Friday, so I'm looking at the calendar here now. So next Friday would be next week. Are we talking vetting on the 24th of next week or aiming for like next Friday, the 27th of having at least the overt thing resolved? I would rather go to Friday because we also need to do a lot of churning before that, like publishing releases to Quay, discussing things with Clayton about further steps. We have tons of documentation to update, so I'm not sure. Yeah, so let's aim for that. Let's put it a bit of a stake in the ground here, excuse me, and say the 27th. And if I can ask everybody on the call to look at the docs this week and next week and make as many bugs, point out as many bugs as possible, and we'll try and clean up the docs for the 27th as well. So a little light reading over the next little while and get those bugs in, because that would help immensely to have some more eyeballs on that. And then maybe we can get on the next call, which would be the 31st, someone from the docs team in as well to talk about the way forward with docs and moving that forward. So that works for everybody. I would really like to get this out the door before the end of March, at least to Beta. Yeah, I think I could have a blog post for you guys to kick around by the 27th, because I should have the documentation on what I've done in the lab so that my team here can reproduce that I should have that done this weekend. That would be great. And then even that, that is a baseline. And then between if Chris is willing and myself, and hopefully Christian gets a little bit better, we can just get everybody else to add in their two cents about it too, and have some content to get out there. So that would be real, that would be a really nice thing, because we've had so many crazy things happening to be able to give somebody all the folks out there in virtual self isolation, something to play with over the next few weeks. So how about that team, that tour of OKD4 on GCP? That would be a wonderful thing to see. Sure. That's the final result. But the first step is here. So I didn't bother with a proper video. I've got a bunch of screenshots and a lot of talking, but here's what we have. We will show an install OKD4 GCP using IVI flow, show a few known issues, and take a quick peek on what installer is actually doing. UPI flow should be pretty different, because you have to set up things yourself, and in our case, we want to install or take care of that. So here's the install config template I'm using. There is not much different from other providers, actually. The difference is, of course, platform GCP, your project ID, and the region you're using. The rest is pretty much the same. I'm using its, in fact, change of template, because I'm templating those using Ansible and create clusters on demand. I wrote my own wrapper around installer, where I can make GCP or make AWS, and I have multiple clusters running outside. Note that it's not designed to keep a long-term cluster living. It's just to quickly spin them up and destroy. So I just run make GCP, and it does the thing. And here is the link to that. You can dig into my terrible skills and make files later. So what it does, in fact, it pulls the latest installer. We're pulling from origin for the four installer, and we're verifying that it's the correct version, and the release image matches the desired one. Next, what it would do, it would template and install config from GCP template and uses the base domain for our GCP account. It's literally calling an Ansible command and templates it. We're also copying to a temporary folder from my file for my cluster, and we're saving a copy because the installer consumes the install config.yml. So later on, this huge terrible command, which starts the installer from the image we have just pulled, so we're passing it. I have a better line. First of all, we mount the folder with our cluster because you can have different ones running in a while, and we're making the installer output to this particular directory. Next, we mount the Google credentials, and finally, we run create cluster command because the entry point in this image is OpenShiftInstaller. We also override the release image just to be sure, and currently you have to override the image used by the installer, which points to our local copy of Fedora OS. Here's the output from the installer, and things start running. Basically, it notifies us that the OS image has been override, and so is the release image, but that's what we expect. So after about five to 10 minutes to create the necessary resources, we would see that images in our console started creating, and the bootstrap image got assigned an external IP. So if we SSH that IP, we would see that initial Fedora OS image has been has started, and there is a bootcube service there, which does all of the jobs, and we can watch it using JournalCityL command. So the first thing bootcube service would do is to upgrade us to the latest image from our release payload. It would extract the machine OS content, pull it, and apply it as an OS tree content, and then finally reboot. So after the reboot, we would see that Fedora Cross version has changed to latest, the one in 6th of March when I run this, and bootcube service continues. That's basically a huge difference from our cause where the initial image does not pivot into itself. So during the process, you can, on the bootstrap node, you can already export the kube config from this directory and slash up OpenShift, and start watching what's happening in the cluster once it assembles the API service. Oh, this is pretty small. It shouldn't work. Sweet. So first thing we see is that the version of, it's like this. That's much better. Can you all see that? Yeah. Yeah. At least on. Great. So what we see here is that the first operator called version, it's a cluster version operator, started progressing, and it has started the network operator, and it's also progressing. This is why three of our masters are not yet ready. So network configuration has been installed in them, and we have tons of bots hanging and pending, because nodes are not yet ready. You don't have to do that all the time. Like this. And when finally network is installed, those masters are reporting that they are ready yet, and other operators like machine config started progressing, bots are in creating state, and so on. So the difference from UPI flow here is that there are no workers yet. They physically don't exist. That's expected because we use machine API to create them dynamically. We define three machine sets, each of them in different availability zone, and we want one machine in each. And after some time when machine API operators started progressing, it would create machines. They would get status provisioning. That one is not yet probably processed, but later we would see that new workers have started appearing in our GCP console, and eventually network configuration would be installed on them. Necessary files would be copied. They would become ready, and more operators would start their progress. The most critical ones is, of course, authentication and QBAPI server, basically. There are lots of crash loop back calls. The greater operators yet that's pretty much expected because authentication has not yet created all the necessary certificates, and so on. But in the end, we would see that install has completed. The arm killed bots are irrelevant. It's actually bugged and should be fixed. All machines are ready, and we're done. We can run OC status, and yeah, that's pretty much it. To known issues, again, you would have to use the OpenShift install or a CMH override because it's not yet uploaded. Once it's done, we will update the installer to point to the correct location. In my case, bootstrapping never actually completed, rather it did complete, but OpenShift installer on my site never noticed that and never asked to destroy the bootstrap node. I'm pretty sure the problem is on my end because all things look like it should work, so if we have this confirmed, we'll dig into that a bit deeper. Hey, Vadim, go back to slides. Yeah, so those out-of-memory killed pods, I don't know if I see it on EtsyD, but I see the same thing when I'm doing the UPI install in my lab. It doesn't seem to adversely affect anything because the correct pods do appear to be running, but if that's a bug, I might be able to provide some additional information because it's happening on the UPI site as well. Yeah, it also affects OCP. There is an axilla for that, and those pods, they update the kube API schema, and once they're done, they are using way too much memory because we're limiting them, and they get all unkilled because they have used all of their limits. Okay. It shouldn't affect anything. It can affect though, so it's a bug which needs to be fixed, of course. Yes, but since OQT is just a fork installer and MCO, the rest is the very same what we have in OCP, so every single bug which is outside of the installer field builds the MCO field to put the proper file, all of that goes straight to OCP, of course, but we would like you to notify us that you found something and file a bug on OQT repo as well, so that we would know how bad things are. Any other questions? Hey, Vadim, it's Danny. I just have a quick one. I might be off a bit, but I think a while ago we were discussing about moving to each CD operator and being used as part of the bootcube and all this kind of stuff. Is that been done or still on the plan or what? Yeah, it is. I barely know how it works, honestly, but it's there. So the bootcube basically is using the operator nowadays, is it? Like in versus when we used to be like, I don't know, 4.0 or whatever, 4.1? Yes, so previously what we did, we asked MCO to template at CDMember static pods definitions. I think at CD operator is doing that for us nowadays, but before the official OCP 4.4 documentation goes out, I don't think we will have a proper description of the process. Okay, yes. Let's find out what's happening. Any other questions? How long did it take for you to set this up? The whole process, about 30 minutes. The maximum installer will allow you to run 20 minutes of bootstrap and 40 minutes to set up the cluster. And I think it's about 20 minutes for the infrastructure. So it cannot take more than an hour and a half. It will fail in the middle if it takes an hour and a half. And this is set up with IPI style, right? So then that means that in the console, you can do things like grow the cluster and whatnot, and everything just kind of magically happens correctly? Or is it, or are there caveats there too? Once they run create cluster, I'm not touching it at all. I'm just watching you to fail or eventually succeed. And, wait, how do I do that? Oh, yeah. And yes, due to Sheen API being supported here, I can scale machines and things. And I won't have to provision them manually myself. And that is the cool part. Any chance you might remember, Vadim, whether we support the machine API on VMware? Because I remember in the past, it was not ready for that. Yes. We have a machine API on VMware. And I think there are works to make a VMware IPI. I don't think we have this in Fedora Core as installer yet because we didn't base. And I'm concerned about the core. But yeah, it's totally possible. Thanks. Yeah. And Neil, in the lab work that I've been doing, even though it's UPI with Libvert, if you provision just with the Vert install, if you provision another machine pointed to booting off of the Worker Ignition Config, the only thing you have to do is approve the CSR. Oh, cool. Yeah. And so before I left for the weekend, I've got a cluster running at home with the usual three masters and six workers. And you can just keep adding workers to it until you run out of CPUs and RAM. That's cool and terrifying. But it's awesome. Yeah, you need this as well. So for Libvert, what you can do is to install a cluster API as a go actuator, I think. And you would be able to create machines in a similar fashion using machine sets and machines. Oh, I know this. That's cool. Without approving CSRs because that's taken care of by Machine API. And yeah, you would get the very same experience, basically. That's nice. That would be very cool. All right. I guess that's all. Yeah, thanks for sharing that, Vadim. That is awesome. That was fantastic. Yes, that was really great. I think that's awesome work. I just wanted, I think you said that earlier in the meeting that the OKD content on documentations was under OKD Preview. I believe it's actually listed as OKD Latest. I just wanted to double check as opposed to the word Preview. But this is the latest documentation. And this is what we're asking people to take a look at. And then if they find, you know, verbiage that's wrong or instructions that are wrong, just log a bug. And you're asking us to log the bug in the OKD issues. Is that correct, Vadim? Yes. You can go straight to OpenShift Dogs first, but don't expect this issue to get a lot of attention. And also, we would like to review the changes first and advise probably on a better wording and another effective thing. As the latest versus Preview. I don't mind changing. Latest does not look like OpenShift 4. It has things like MiniShift in here. It still mentions Ansible Playbooks and stuff, so that doesn't seem right. Yeah, that's kind of what I was pushing out here. Is that the right stuff to be? Okay. Hi, Dan. It's Michael Burke. I'm the Doc Point person. Yeah. Hi. Hi, Doc's person. Hello. I've been lurking here. I'm a little scared to jump in. Yeah, the latest. The latest docs were pulled off of our master, which, yes, is 4-3. Do we want to wait until 4-4 merges down the master? No. Having a section, latest section of docs that actually is OKD4 is really, really good, but it is very, very weird that I'm still seeing stuff from OpenShift 3 and OKD3 in the latest tab. MiniShift is not a thing on OKD4 at all. We don't have an equivalent to MiniShift right now. Yeah, so those are the issues that I would ask you to actually log. Okay. If you find them and we can just, then we'll have a list of things that are odd and need to be removed. So I think this is the one that we should be looking at, the OKD latest one that's up there. And I think the right way to do this is to, and I keep trying to bump to this, is to put an issue in the OpenShift OKD list, and then it says drop section on adding rail computes or whatever. Those kinds of things. And then the documentation team and the other folks can review this and either make the corrections or take your cut and paste. If you have a sentence, if we did bad grammar, cut and paste that as well with the correction. That will be helpful. Okay. This might be my ignorance, but if we've already caught a lot of these issues in our 4-4 branch that's pending and emerged, are we wasting people's time pulling out issues that we already know about? Well, people have to have something to do. So far, we haven't been able to give anybody anything to do. All right. If the documentation is complete enough, and this documentation that we're looking at is just a copy of the 4-3 OCP documentation, could we go ahead and just present the work in progress 4-4 documentation here? Yeah. I would much rather go through a Google doc or not a Google, a GitHub issue flow than finding something in Guide here and then editing an issue over here kind of thing. Right. Honestly, I'm confused about how this workflow is supposed to work because none of this makes a whole lot of sense for making either OKD or OCP better in terms of documentation or anything. That's encouraging. Yeah. The documentation person who was on the call, you want to speak up what works better for you guys. Exactly. Could you list the options again? We don't have any options at this point. That's the problem. Right now, we're being told if we file issues on the OpenShift docs repo, they'll get ignored because they're on OKD-IO. So we're filing them on OpenShift OCD, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because I'm pretty sure the docs people aren't really looking at those. Somebody has to go and prune them and then go forward them back to the docs people. And this feels like a whole lot of busy work for no particularly good gain. So let's pause for a minute, Neil. Michael, who is the documentation's connection here, liaison for our group. Michael, if you could tell us what would be the best process for you getting this feedback? In terms of it getting into our scope of attention, I think we did it against the documentation repo. Can you put a link to the button? Is it public? Yeah, yeah, it is. Okay, so can you put the link to that in the chat? Sure, I need to take it up. Because I'd rather not give bad advice. Hey, Michael. Can we put OKD right? Go ahead. Can I make your suggestion? I'm not sure whether this is a technical possible, but in the docs, in the repo docs, if folks are, I think you switch from 3x to 4x, you would switch to a different way with modules and everything. And I believe if folks will log an issue or anything like that, can both log that as OKD versus OCP and then obviously we're going to have labels mentioning this is OKD and this is OCP. So then we can differentiate and maybe you guys can pay attention to more OCP and less OCP is OKD and vice versa, obviously, based on your workload and such like. Yeah, I believe there is an OKD only label in there. Right. But I guess folks who don't have a right permission in the repo, they can't set a label, can they? They cannot. Only people with commit access are greater on a repo can actually set labels. Right. Yeah, this is why I wanted to start with OKD repo first because we can aggregate a bunch of issues and on a huge PR to OpenShift talks and get more attention to that instead of multiple small PRs from contributors which we don't wish we don't have options to track because they can affect both OCP and OKD. So that was the process which we came up with. It might not be effective, but let's discuss that. Well, Vadim, do you want us to work from the Enterprise 4.4 branch in OpenShift docs but post the issues to the OKD project? I think we should follow the latest methods, why the latest here and I'm hoping you're posting the latest code you have to the master. So once OkD derives from that, they automatically get all the changes and the contributors would update master and eventually that would make to OpenShift 4.4. But the process is different. We can post the 4.4 branch, yes. So, but the 4.4 is not what's on the OkD latest. That's 4.3, correct? Correct. Yeah, posting a 4.4, excuse me, posting a master. Okay, so maybe it would help me, Michael, if you took over the screen for a few minutes and showed us where we can view the master and gave us a couple of things about that and how to look at that and review that. Okay, you want to look at master in our repo? In your repo. Yeah, just drive us through where we should be looking so I can get it in the recording and then edit out some of the blah, blah, blah here and create a little guide on how to view the master. And is this something if we update these things, if we get stuff in over the next couple of weeks that might surface before the 27th? What's the 27th? That is when we were going to do, been driving people to do a beta 2 Friday release. Okay, this is our master. What would you like to see in here? So, if I wanted to view the docs in a visually readable way to see where there were mistakes, how would I do that? Click on. Is there a way to view a rendered version of the master branch? Everything in master should be in okdio. Is it? Oh, it's called. Oh, okay. I thought okdio was like a copy of the 4.3 docs. That's what I thought as well. Forgive me. Because my ignorance, I'm new to this game here, but it's okay. We're all new to this. I would say for folks who wants to see the master, they can build it locally. And when they build it locally, they can see and render in real time they make changes. And that's how you normally contribute to the docs. That's how I've been doing 3x. Whether the current master is pointing to docs.okdio latest, that's a different topic. Because ideally, personally, one of the frustrations I had in 3x is when you say latest, latest doesn't mean anything because if you switch to OCP, they don't have latest. So ideally, it would be nice to kind of follow exactly what OCP is. When we say 4.3, it's 4.3 and that is latest. 4.4 is whatever, rather than saying latest and have this magic stuff being done, which points to either 4.3, 4.2, 4.1, etc. But that's maybe a different conversation to have. Well, I mean, one of the key differences between okd and OCP is that okd is essentially rolling forward on the latest code anyway. So ideally, the documentation on master could correspond to the active rolling development of okd as it stands. Because then at some point, they'll branch it and then that'll become OCP and a quote unquote stable okd sub release or whatever. That's what I thought it was supposed to work like. I could be wrong. I also assumed that's the workflow. So if Michael, if you could merge 4.4 preview branch into master before March 27, you will have a lot of testers and a lot of feedback. I think that would be a win-win. 4.4 preview is master. He said that a couple of times, Vadim. I'm sorry. Okay. So what we need to do is, right, so any changes would be rendered on docs.kdio and we can go just straight filing bugs, just a matter of how to track them properly. Should we go straight to OpenShiftDocs and label them with okd or add some kind of a tag in the title? Which process would you prefer? We could just put okd in the label in the subject line of the title of the thing. If you did okd colon and then whatever the issue was you found going back to where he was showing them earlier where you log an issue, I think that's the proper way. Yeah, I think that would work. Can you go back to that issues page and maybe just go into our repo and choose. Pick the issues and then what I'm saying here is if you could here just put okd colon or in brackets okd colon and then whatever the issue is that's wrong or whatever and then whatever. I will talk to my documentation project manager and let him know we're doing this. Does he generally will review the issues? We've been trying to get better about reviewing the issues. We can then start to schedule these issues as we have. I'm going to ask one more time just because I'm still confused. Are the docs that are on docs.okd.io latest okd 4.4 or okd 4.3? They're the docs in their current state which is based on 4.3 plus whatever we may have added for 4.4. Any issues that we have for 4.4 that are done we will likely have merged to master. At a certain point in time. So anything that going we'd have to do another merge with any fixes that you have for the 27th. Yes. Ok. So is that clear as mud for everybody on the call? All right. So I think the basic thing here is if you find a mistake or a misstatement or grammar whatever in the okd documentation go to openshift doc-docs in the openshift repo log an issue with okd in brackets that'll flag it and we will and give as much detail as you can about where you found the mistake and how you found the mistake or the correction that you want to be have made and submit it and we'll you know Michael if we need to come back and have another call what I'd like to do is capture this and make a very short video maybe with Michael and myself restating all of what we've just done and put it up and circulate that and give people homework for the next 2 weeks and so Michael I may reach out to you to record that later this week if you have it you don't mind especially once you run it once you run it by your management team to make sure that they're okay with this sounds good okay cool thanks all right is there anything else we should hash today anyone else make any new discoveries new platform things okay then I am going to call this meeting and thank you Vadim for taking on the GCP demo that was great I'll probably try and snip that out as a short video as well and share that and Craig for your medium blog post that's wonderful and everybody else for all your efforts to make this happen and I'm really looking forward to getting beta out the door so enjoy your week and read some docs sounds good yes thanks in advance everyone for any changes you had cool thanks guys bye