That should be fairly straightforward. Do you have a sense of how many there are? You know, I don't know if our plan is to... 26 something, I mean, it's a rate, outrageous number. Yeah, we have some chapter time. Right, but we need to ask all of the committees, because they might be... Well, and you raised an really interesting point, which is maybe some of the committees were already planning on coordinating. I mean, I think it would be useful to hear from all committees who are willing to show up. I certainly don't want to close the door on any committees, I agree. So, Kim... Were you part of the master plan development process, previously? Tina was our expert on that. I read about it in the newspapers. I guess we could discuss. But there was a lot of collaboration, too, so, you know. But we probably got a lot more committees now than we had then, even. So, in terms of the change, one of the things that happened there was they opened it up to the public. And so, up at Vermont College, about 600 people showed up off and on and kind of prioritized what they thought were the important goals of the city. It was the proverbial sticky button, you know, colored markers thing. And so, that's somewhat, you know, how the plan developed out of that, according to plan. So, I took part in that, but that was the only part I was involved with. Okay. So, it wasn't a proposal put out to the public. It was just everyone, come tell us what you care about in the city. Well, I think there were a series of meetings where they kind of drew up a list of goals. Yep. And then what they wanted to know was what did the public think was important. And so, that's when everyone showed up to public meetings and sort of voted on their top three or whatever it was in terms of what was important to them. And so, I think that just boiled down to the basic, very large kind of goals rather than the specific items. Although some of the specific strategies may have risen out of that because it wasn't just people voting as I recall. I think people were writing in aspects of what they thought was important to them. So, that was more public input rather than committee input. Well, so the last meeting we were discussing how we're going to involve the public early on in the process, but not so early on that we haven't heard from the committees yet. Yeah. And where we landed was that we would send out a survey to the public using Frontport Forum and other channels, web channels, at the same time that we invited the committees to come in for the kickoff meeting. And then we would have potentially a bigger public meeting after that. We just kind of need to see how the kickoff meeting goes and then we can develop our strategy from there. So, I had originally drafted this letter with the idea of putting forward the process. We're going to have three meetings and here's the first one's going to accomplish. Here's the second one's going to accomplish. And in our last meeting we discussed how really we don't have a firm idea of what each meeting should look like yet. So, we should be a little more open-ended in our initial letter. And the way that I've drafted this revision has a sort of a draft agenda that's very vague, but, or not vague, it's broad. Or, we're just saying that we would welcome everybody and talk about how we're going to go forward that evening. Then we would invite each committee to come up for a five-minute presentation and it will have to be very strict time limits because of the number of committees. And we want to ensure we hear from everyone. Then we would talk about next steps from there. And then everyone would be invited to stay for another hour. So, we have the space in a popular high school auditorium for three hours from six to nine. And we could probably move that on either end. Oh, six to nine? So, we don't have the meeting from six to eight. And then we would invite people to stay for another hour after if they want to socialize. Get to know one another. Well, yeah, I'm trying to find out if we have any budget to do that. Otherwise, I might just take that line out of this letter. And we have somebody from the high school doing our audio visual because they have a unique system, as I understand it. Kirby is working on that. Oh, good. He was in contact with them about a projector. And I think that we would probably bring one from the city office over there. Contacted the high school to iron out those details. Yeah, even the pavilion auditorium might have been tight as we get all the members of the 20-some committees. Mostly all each committee. I don't think he got to all of them. I think he started that process, but I'm not. Well, I don't know. I mean, we need to meet what it means to evolve 18 years. Yeah. That's a great idea. Sorry, I missed the last part. Well, yeah. But I think we wanted to stay. Maybe too soon for that. Yeah. But the action plan would come later right now for this. We're just talking about three goals. Right. And part of it is to meet with other committees that might have similar or dissimilar goals. Well, at least define the transform, maintain those three aspects. So that we're kind of clear about that. Define them maybe if we could provide an example and then possibly a little more context on the plan as a whole. So that to clarify this isn't their only opportunity to say anything and then we're adopting a plan in September. Okay. I feel like they have to frame everything into three ideas and then they become so meaningless and popular. And maybe, as Kim said, to make sure that they're clear that this meeting is allowing them their committee the opportunity to hear all of the other committee goals and see if there's common ground. And I think I said something along those lines in this draft, but maybe it wasn't clear enough. If you weren't getting that out of it. Oh yeah, learn from each other's interests. So that's the challenge is I wanted to have, as I said, it's where I try to present that idea. But the letter needs to be specific enough that there's no questions really about what it is or very few, but not so specific that we're locked into one method. And that's where I'm struggling a little bit to capture. Yeah, that's right. Maybe you could offer, suggest at the end if they have questions about it that they could call you or Mike to clarify. Yeah. So I'd really like to have the letter be clear enough that that doesn't need to happen. Need to happen. Not just because I don't want to field phone calls, but because I think everyone else feels more confident about the process and they feel they understand it. It's more transparent. So are you going to attach something from Mike that gives those definitions? Well, if you think we should. I mean, this is our discussion for tonight. I didn't have any idea about that. But it sounds like there's some interest in that and I'm open to it. Or just clarify like an example or like where are they going to send this or what? Just clarifying maybe expectations. So it could be like a link to like here's an example of that. Is this the butterflies and unicorns? Yeah, and then we'll give them the worst example. Did you all agree? Or like here's a link to some guidance on what those terms mean. Yeah. That's good. And then we can put it on the website and I'm still, I still haven't received anything from that. I can probably just get started on that. Do we already have a document that provides some guidance? What are those terms? State one. But I think like an actual one. Mike had, yeah, defined those terms. And yeah, that's what I meant about the unicorns and butterflies because that was his example. Maybe not get into that level of detail, but he definitely had something. Yeah, yeah. I think he pulled it from the state planning manual, but either way what he had. Yeah, I remember that. I just, when we first started talking about it. Don't have it off hand. Yeah. Maybe you could just ask Mike to provide some very, or put something on the website that was short and concise. Because again, people won't read the whole thing if it's too, if it's too detailed. So, right, I don't think there's any avoiding that though. I mean, I made the letter as concise as possible and we have a lot of questions. So, I mean a link to send someone to someplace where there's more info. I think we can have a little more detail there. I hope the community is a good one. This isn't their first introduction. I think we're going to get the gamut. Yeah. Because certain committees like the energy committee, the housing committee, the conservation commission, they have very well developed ideas and perhaps even drafts in some cases. And then we have other committees that I'm not sure have had a meeting with Mike from the sounds of what I recall him saying and what you recall him saying. Or there might be committees that don't even necessarily understand what their place in the process would be. As we said, there are eight chapters and 26 committees that some of these are overlapping. So I'm sure there are people who will be totally familiar with this. Mike's right up with using uniforms or whatever. It's probably going to be the best to use for a couple of reasons. One, it's neutral. It's not some other committees. Right. Yeah. And our goals are much too specific for that. Yes. I would argue some of the goals the energy committee has are actions. No, we revised. So now we have like three. But you know, I think they're very broad, but that's fine. That's what he wants. But it doesn't talk about these necessarily these particular terms. Yeah. Because most everything we have is going to evolve or transform. So we don't really have much to maintain. Anyway. Maybe they could all be in one category. Yeah. And maybe that's something else I should add to the letter. I mean, it doesn't have, you don't have to have one of each. Right. Yeah.  I think that would help. That's why I've changed the language from goals to interests. It was added. Mike's request. And if you have a different term suggestion, I'd love to hear it. So goals. Best I could do. Goals just felt too rigid to. What was the. I think part of our conversation was you say estimated goal. I'll be looking for. Okay. What exactly is the language of a goal? Bring them together for maybe combined goals and things like that. We can. That would be a good way to make sure that they have. Yeah. Instead of just skating up and talking for five minutes. So we'll put together PowerPoints even if they don't have them. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. So what do you want the content of the email to have the three interests that they've identified? Or just. Yeah. Your three interests. Will it add back to Mike? No. Yeah. I mean. Actually, Stephanie, if you wouldn't mind being in charge of that, I think that would be helpful. Lastly, you actually. I can have them email me and I'll just forward them so that you don't. You use the word aspects. Three aspects of the city. Not interests. Later I say interests. Okay. So do we need to clarify that these three aspects of the city are related to their committee? Or. You tell me. Yeah. If you. It'd be nice if they were. Yeah. From the perspective of your committee. From the perspective of your committee. Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. That they will. I think that's implied. All right. Yeah. Yeah. The housing committee is interested in housing. It's going to have trouble with three. Yeah. Okay. So here are the revisions I'm hearing I need to make. Make sure that it's clear that the point of the meeting is not just like a side benefit, but the actual point is for everybody to hear everyone else. I'm going to provide a link to some guidance on what the terms of all transform mean. We'll ask Mike to provide that and then I'll feed into the website that John is developing. And we're going to ask for emails in advance. A week in advance. So we'll get them three days in advance. Yeah. Yeah. Or the night before. I think even if it's very. Yeah. Right. Five days. Yeah. I'll put it. I'll put a date deadline. Yeah. That would be great. Yeah. So we're having a meeting scheduled for July 23rd. So maybe like the 18th. Then someone else. So is the link to that website the unicorn? And I forget what the example is. Does it have that in it? Rainbows and unicorns. Oh, it does. It does have it. I don't know if that was just definitions or they had the examples because I think the example is helpful. Ideally, we're just going to get one of the three things that you're doing cares about the most. Yeah. Right. Right. But it's good to put them within the context of the language we're hoping to use. So we'll make these changes and then if everyone's okay, we can just send this out. I think we could probably have it all over this draft a long time. So Leslie. I'm going to try to think letters so I can move it here. Yeah. It's tough. It is. Is there a word left out in number three? Maybe. I don't know. Planning Commission will discuss next steps and future all should say all future. No. Future all committee meetings, but maybe I could word that a little better. What is it trying to say? Any more meetings that all committees are invited to. Okay. Maybe just any future. I could just take off that and blah, blah, blah. Just say the planning commission will discuss next steps. Period. Next steps. Right. I think that's good. Yeah. We don't want them to get overwhelmed thinking we're going to rope them. Well, I want them to know they're not at the hook yet. Right. But we'll say that, I guess. Yeah. They still have to write their sections. So. Yeah. And we'll have to talk about that before they get to that meeting. I strive to avoid it, but it sneaks its way in. My word actually comes up, pops up every time. Flags it. I incentive candidates to give us three minutes. Yeah, you are right. Yes, it's true. We could ask them all to attend so that they can hear from all the committees at once. I mean, is anybody else going to be notified of this meeting other than the committees? Is it going to be? Well, public meetings law, I think dictates that this meeting will be open to the public. Which means it has to be posted, warned. I don't assume so, yeah. But we'll let Mike hand that, which he does anyway. Yeah. Well, I know. I mean, we're posting, I mean, I think the intent is that this letter will be posted on the city website and easy for everyone to access and be informed of. The public is always welcome to come to this meeting. But I don't think that we can take public comment at the meeting because it's just too tight of a timeline. Right. And if people can submit comments anytime they want and attend our meetings anytime they want. We'll involve the public in this process. But first we just need to hear the universe of concerns that we're dealing with from the committees. And then, again, I think we can get some public perspective on that after that. And the idea is that doing that survey at the same time will give us that information from the start, from the public as well, in a way that's a little bit more manageable to digest. And it focuses the discussion because if you send a survey out, then you get answers to the five questions that you put out there. How open-ended do you imagine the questions to be in terms of list the three things you think are most important to the city? That could be pretty open-ended. So I had promised that I would drop something. I did not. Well, we lose momentum when we don't meet. I took two random terms back to the council. We didn't even discuss what it would include, so it's unfair for you to really... Well, so if I think we have ideas on that now. Yeah. But we talked about it as a public survey. I mean, is there some way to aggregate if they gave us three things that they think are most important? And everybody's items are totally different. Is there some way to aggregate those without having to go through it manually? I'm assuming there is. What if we use the topics, the statutory topics that we have to cover as our guidance? No, you don't like that idea? Like under each category, like natural resources? Yeah. Give us another idea then. Why not? You can't just be a nancy. No, I like just being as open-ended as possible. Okay. That way you get people really focusing, I think, on what their actual priorities are rather than trying to fit things into a box that they think they have to fit into. Okay. Because then you can think more holistically. Whatever you say, one person might think, oh, that sounds more like a housing than an energy goal or whatever. But we don't need to worry about it. Yeah, just putting them together into a document afterwards that's useful. Just take a little bit of time so this meeting is coming up. Be clarified. Yeah. So we'll have an opportunity in other ways or later or something. I think the city is just private. So the answer happened, like, select the different topics that give us, like, an expectation. They click one and then comment on the other one? Or they put their idea and then they can just click on whatever topic list we have if we feel like we need to. And then you could put more than one. So I'm confused. Are you saying that they would have three open-ended items and then what they would click on each of the chapters? How does that work? Right. You could answer it, answer one question and then it says, you know, which topics do these, does this answer relate to? And then they can select from a menu of topics. It's somewhat similar to doing, I mean, either do it that way or give them the list of topics and then ask them to respond within it. So maybe it's a matter of formatting in terms of, but having done one of these by hand in terms of taking comments, any way you can get the survey to do it for you, it's going to be helpful. That's true. That is true, yeah. If you could ask the Transformer maintainer. Yeah. You have a definition, an example of what, of Transform and then you ask or question about it. And the same comes up for the other two. So what's the end result with the survey? Like, do we look at it or what's the process after we get all these comments? Or? I think the process is it helps inform our discussion. Okay. Yeah. And I think as the entity that's going to be combining what other groups are doing, if everyone really cares about farming, if that's the thing people really care about. If we kind of move them towards the idea of maintain, transform, maybe that will get them away from single item complaints, that kind of thing or an issue that they're so focused on right now because it's in the news. It's going to help us prioritize. Yeah. Because the committees each have their own interests and they live in those worlds and we're going to hear equally from all of them. So to really know where we should be prioritizing, there are conflicts that the public can pull. I mean we'll get message from the public that we can bring to City Council and then City Council can help direct our priorities. I hate to say this Leslie, but if you're going to add something in the letter about the public comment, do you want to note that there's a survey? Do you want to talk about the survey? I don't think I did put anything in there about public comment. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were just writing some notes about it. That would be a front porch forum posting. Yeah, I mean I just think that it'd be good to notify the committees too that this public forum is there. I think that the initial kickoff of the process at that meeting could be a good way to do that. Okay. Just recognize that not everyone's going to see the front porch forum posting. I understand that. I'm just saying that when we have everybody in the room together in the high school auditorium, you could say, hi, my name is Leslie Wells. First, here's the loose concept for the entire process and this is the beginning of that process. We are simultaneously seeking public comment in Nearest Avenue and you may have seen a posting on the front porch forum about that. If not, go check it out. And it'll be on the City website. Well, I think John's going to be working with Seth, the IT person here, to create a website where we can have all of our working documents and each committee will have a page where they have all their working documents. It'll take whatever form it takes. But the concept is that it will be a transparent process. So it'll be some sort of cloud-based website and the thought is that we can put things like this on there. We can access the survey there. Right. I guess I'm just saying that in order to let people know, let the public know that this is something that we're requesting, it needs to go on the City website. Yes. And any other venues we have.  The words will be out. Well, I mean, I think that the website that we have for our working documents is going to be linked from the City's website. No, I know. But I mean, people visit the City website to, you know, just to find out what's going on in the City. And so they'll be able to see right as an announcement or however it is that they, I can't remember how they format it. So we can nail down all of those details once we know what we want the survey to deal with. I mean, that's what I'm, I don't want to get the details too far of the focus.  You and I can talk. No, I know. I just, yeah. Well, you mentioned that it would go out on Front Porch Forum at the same time as this committee meeting happening. I just want to make sure we aren't limiting our options. Yeah. So Front Porch Forum got a link somewhere and my thought was that the link would be to the City webpage or, I guess, I don't know. We can iron out those little mistakes. We've done it before in terms of getting public comment. I'm just concerned because during the zoning process there were many people who said they never knew about it. And so... It's the same number of people saying that. I guess. Yeah, right. But the opportunity count is to not have that happen. I don't think we can avoid it. I think we were very public with the zoning process. Everything was on the City's webpage. There were, I mean, there were articles in the newspapers all the time. The fact of the matter is they didn't think they really made or said, hey, have you heard it? Yeah. And then they said, oh, I didn't hear it. Yeah, right, right. Well, they might be more tuned in to what's happening. No, it's going to be in the survey. But we'll say, I mean, when we post the survey, it will include, it's also an introduction to, hey, guys, we're doing this. Yeah, I would... Because we look for our meetings. I would say... I think you would percolate. Yeah. I would say that in my experience at A&R, running public meetings, you don't get input from anybody until they think you're actually moving forward with the proposal. So in the early stages when it's draft form, you really don't get much input. And then you say, okay, we're moving forward now. Well, hold on. I haven't looked at this. You know, I've given you a lot of opportunity. Well, I didn't know you're actually going to do it. They don't want to waste their time until they know that something has legs. So we can't avoid that. It's going to happen. I don't think... When we post it, I think it's a way to be interested in how... Absolutely. We'll be very upfront about, this is happening, where this survey will help us prioritize these things, and it's going to be one that's up in our plan. And that's going to be one that's going to be with us. So this is the next round of zoning updates. There's a lot of people, including myself, in the start of it, and no idea why we care about a city plan. What effect does it have?  And that's fairly subtle. It seems pretty major to set priorities for a city, in my mind. Right. And the idea is that eventually these will be action items and things will get done. Yeah. So... But any time you're posting anything for the opportunity to educate people on what this means? I like that attitude. So, I will revise this letter, and once I get a list of the committees that we need to invite, I'll just send it out. And I'd like to do that soon. The meeting's the 23rd, so the sooner we can get it out, the better. So, this week, this week is the goal. I think we don't need to... Maybe, Stephanie, if you're... If you still have things happening in your personal lives, okay, okay. Because we can reassign tasks. I'll start the... I'll draft it, and then I'll send it to you. Then we can talk about it at our next meeting. I don't think that has to go out right now. But we should talk about it at the next meeting, and then aim to have that out. Do we want that to go out before the meeting, the kickoff meeting? Okay. I suppose, then, if the public has some issue, they could talk to somebody they know in the committee and make sure they have a particular committee. Yeah, okay. So that means that... I guess before the letter goes out, we need to make sure that the website... We have a website, and that the website has the guidance document stuff. So it will require a little work... That's workable. Anything else on the city plan process for now? It's ever-evolving. Well, let's move to the next item on our agenda. Item six, receive punch list of zoning fixes and begin review. So we don't have our print out, so I don't think we can actually go through. But, John, do you have it pulled up on your screen? Yeah. There's plus another seven. So it looks like there's 50 of them. It's not going to be easy to go through, because there are things like strike the information bullet under 1004. Okay, so we don't know what that is without my... It'll be a lot of, like... Let's... Do we need to... Everyone bring their zoning questions? I brought mine, but it may not be posted up to date.  So Mike said, you don't need to review them, but it'll be good to have them for the 25th. Okay, he said you don't need to review them tonight, but it'll be good to have them for the 25th. But ask him to send them out to us? Or were they attached to that? With the current? Yeah, so... So we'll go through them at the next meeting, but obviously we've got some work to do. So everyone, I think, should take a look at them before the 25th, so that we can be quick. I guess what I'll ask is take a look at them, and at the 25th we'll deem whatever Mike's suggestion is approved unless somebody has a concern. So I want to be efficient. It'll be like a consent agenda, because then we want to talk about the survey and some of the things. I mean, based on what happened with the zoning matrices, we may need some clarification from Mike in terms of what he's proposing, and it could be fine, just a matter of clarification. Was there a next meeting? The 25th. Yeah, so just flag those items, Barb, if you need more clarification, that's a concern worth freezing. And then the minutes... I don't know, did he send out the minutes? I was just looking for those. I didn't see them as an attachment. It was in the first email he sent, maybe? Yeah. Well, yeah, sometimes the agenda has a link to them, but there isn't one there. So we'll table that till the 25th as well. I was just curious, because I missed the last meeting what the feedback from the city council was. Did you guys talk about that at the last meeting? If there was any feedback from... Yeah, we did. The city council was very excited about our proposal to have an all committees meeting. And they're eager for us to move forward on the city plan process and use that as our way to kick it off. They were...the mayor pressed the need to make sure we're involving the public all the way through. So that's part of what drove our desire to kind of receive some public input in a way that could be manageable this early on in the process. Because our report was well taken. And they expressed... They said that they would discuss prioritizing staff resources at their retreat. Oh, okay, that's great. And I haven't heard anything on that, but I'm sure Mike has. When was their retreat? Is that theirs? Maybe. There's the retreat. Looks like a retreat. Yeah. Anyway, I...yeah. I wish there was a big block there since city plan. Or we have resources. Mike's going to spend all of his time. You know, I think... Mike has expressed concern about his staff's ability to handle all of the various priorities of the city... of the city council, really. So I think that the more we can do as individuals on the planning commission to help move things forward and the more we can put on our committees to give us product that we can feed into a city plan, I think the smoother this process is going to be. We're going to need Mike's guidance, obviously. But I think if we can get his guidance and convey clear expectations to the other committees, it's really going to help move things forward. Previously we've really relied on Mike to manage everything. But I think there's enough of us here and that we can each do a task here or there. I mean, ultimately the wording, I think a lot of the language Mike's going to want to be editing. Absolutely. Well, that's why we're using his language in the letter, in the kickoff meeting, so that we can have a product that's workable for him early on. But I've been gradually asking each of us to do a little bit more and I foresee this process is requiring a little bit more work than we had done in the past. And I don't know if Kim worked with the prior director of planning and I don't know if she liked doing all the tasks or I don't know. But I think we're in a situation here where we can do more of the work than we could do with the zoning. And I don't think it takes a lot of time, I know. I said the letter draft around the handling. So we have to meet every two weeks and keep going. Even if there's short meetings, like tonight's going to be a short meeting. No matter what holiday they fall on we need to keep meeting. But I think that the city council meeting went well. It was really helpful. We do have a new zoning administrator who is working part-time. Not half-time, but a little more than half-time. Maybe 80% of the time. So that's going to be helpful too. And then I don't know if we have any updates on historic preservation. But it sounded like there were no new updates on that. No, Kim's seen the draft. Right? Hello. Then we can share. I don't know where they are exactly. They came to that agreement. Where it's like reference, respect, appropriate, and price. I don't know if it's sensitive. It's their language. It's going to be a uphill battle to get them to remove those. I think you're right, but... It's the draft for the... It's the draft for the design for you. And is it the language that would go in the bylaws or the language that would be the guidance reference? I've been assuming it's the guidance. I think I have a little Are they still working with their consultant? Do you know if they still have time left with him? Because the consultant was going to help them. I thought I would have made the guidelines. There wasn't a lot of money. That's right. And he's already attended one or two meetings. Anyway. Well, you came up with this draft, right? Okay, great. I'll take a look at it right away. Any other questions, comments? Okay. We will table items 6 and 7 for our next meeting, which will be on June 25th. 5.30 in this room. In the meantime, John's going to work on the website. I don't work on the letter. Stephanie's going to work on a survey. Kim's going to keep on the historical preservation. Okay. Okay. So that leaves us at our last item, which is adjournment. Do I have a motion to adjourn? So moved, yes. Second? Second. Okay, I got to make a note of this. So Kim moved. Barb, seconded. All in favor. Signified by saying aye. Okay. And we are adjourned. Thank you very much, everybody.