Good to see everyone. Sorry, we are back in this all remote format. Certainly my hope that we'll not be in this posture for long and the data from our wastewater readings suggests caseloads are declining quickly in Bronton. I hope we are in a place where we can meet again in person soon. With that, I will call the meeting to order at 6.03 p.m. And the first item on the agenda is the agenda would welcome motion regarding it. Thank you, Councilor Powell. Motion to approve. Second by Councilor Chang. Second by Councilor Chang. Any discussion of the agenda? All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Are there any opposed? No, unopposed. We have an agenda and that brings us to the public forum. And if there's anyone member of the public that would like to speak to the Board of Finance, please, we're one of the attendees on this Zoom. Please use the raised hand function and we'll promote you. Not seeing any raised hands. So, you see one raised hand. Now, let's hope I can, I may need to help Catherine. I hope you can help me with this. Or Max, Whitney McCarthy. I got it, Mayor. Yeah, it looks like they're, okay. Is it enabled, yeah. Hi, are we addressing the police chief right now? No, I'm sorry, then I'll lower my hand. Okay, thank you. You are on the right Zoom channel. This will be the same place to offer public comment when we get to the city council meeting. This is the Board of Finance meeting, which takes place before the city council. President Tracy, is there anything else the caller should know about signing up? Yeah, so if you'd like to sign up to comment remotely, what you need to do is just go to burlingtonbt.gov slash city council slash public forum. And that goes for anybody who's interested in commenting in the public forum who has not yet signed up. If you have already signed up, we probably have your sign up. So please don't double sign up. That creates confusion. If you've already completed and submitted that form, but if you are interested, again, burlingtonbt.gov slash city council slash public forum, complete that form and then that'll get you in the queue to speak. We do prioritize Burlington residents just for folks' knowledge. Okay, thank you for that, President Tracy. I'm seeing no other hands. So we will close the public forum and move to item number 3.01, which is the consent agenda. I'll welcome a motion regarding that. Councilor Jiang. Yep, would like to make the motion as indicated on board that to accept consent action. Great, thank you. Councilor Jiang is there a second for the agenda? Councilor Powell, seconds. The motion, any discussion? All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Are there any opposed? Motion carries unanimously and it brings us to our one deliberative item for this meeting, which is a Burlington International Airport supplemental resolution number seven. I think I saw Marie was with us. Director Longo, Nick, Nick, would you, would one of you like to start this off? Yeah, absolutely. Mayor, if that's all right, I'll start it off and then Catherine Rich, Marie, if you wanna join in anytime. I think the general concept here is there's a pretty large opportunity to refinance an existing bond. That's our 2012 A, which is about $11.5 million in refinancing, which is callable this July. That net present value savings, which was calculated is about $920,000 when we first initiated this refinance opportunity. I think right now we're just because some changes in the market were about $750,000 worth of savings on this particular bond. I think if there's, I'll keep it on that because I think there's a lot of information with this, but if Catherine Rich or Marie wants to add anything in there or Mayor, if you wanna take it from here. Great, thank you. Questions for the team or motion? Mayor, the one thing I'll add if it's all right, this is not a simple transaction. There's been a lot of work that went into this transaction, transaction from Catherine's team. Rich and Marie have been outstanding on this entire process, as well as I see a couple of people, Mr. Maloney on the side over there, lots of other people have contributed to this as with any refinancing project. Yeah, thanks for pointing it out, Nick. These are important for everyone to understand. These are not. A lot of work goes into this and we're significant benefits to both of them. Councilor Powell. Thanks, Mayor. I would make a motion to recommend the city council approve the attached resolution. Thank you, Councilor Powell. Is there a second? Seconded by Councilor Hightower. Discussion? Seeing none, let's go to a vote. All those in favor of the motion, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Are there any opposed? The motion carries unanimously and that concludes our quarter finance agenda for tonight's meeting on the 31st of January. There's no objection or President Tracey, do you have a different plan? We'll adjourn and then people can come back here for the, if I get this right, correct me if I get something wrong, we are launching, we are starting the city council meeting at 6.30 p.m. We're expecting a presentation, a public presentation regarding the city place project from the city team that's been working on this. And then there's expected to be a motion to go into executive session to update the council on that project and on that project and sensitive negotiations and the, what am I trying to say? Here's what it is, you should all, if you have not done so already, you will be getting a link for the executive session because you will need a separate link for that. President Tracey? Yeah, that's correct, Mayor. So it looks like Chief of Staffordell did send out an executive session link. So just have that ready counselors, check your inboxes, that should have gone out to all counselors at this point. However, stay on this Zoom. So if you're wanting to take a break until 6.30, you can turn your cameras off and mute. We'll come back to this at 6.30, at which point we'll begin our meeting with that city place presentation. If folks are interested in the public comment, we'll be back to out of that executive session and getting to that public forum right around 7.30. If you are interested in signing up for the public forum, again, you may do so by going to burlingtonbt.gov slash city council slash public forum. And that's the way you sign up for the forum and we'll be able to find you that way. And we don't use the raise hand function to identify speakers in that public forum. So if you are interested in that, you can certainly sign up that way. But again, we'll come back at 6.30 and convene the city council meeting for that update. And we'll see you then. Okay, let's go ahead and get the meeting started. I'll call to order the Burlington city council for Monday, January 31st at 6.30 PM. First item on the agenda is the agenda. Councillor Stromberg may please have a motion on the agenda. Yes, I move to amend, adopt the agenda as follows, add to the consent agenda item 5.10, communication Brian Bulger regarding public comments regarding short-term rentals with the action to waive the reading except the communication and place it on file. Add to the consent agenda item 5.11, communication Amy and Keith Ferguson regarding short-term rentals with the action to waive the reading except the communication and place it on file. Add to the consent agenda item 5.12, communication Kelly Devine, BBA director regarding appointment of John Murad as place chief with the action to waive the reading except the communication and place it on file. Great, thank you for that motion. Councillor Stromberg, is there a second? Seconded by Councillor McGee. Any discussion of the agenda? Okay, not seeing any.  Yeah, I was wondering if we can withdraw the airport resolution now instead of making a statement later. Councillor Jang, if you would like to make that amendment and say why you'd like to do so, I would say that would be germane now. So if you'd like to do so, you recognize you and you have the floor. Okay, thank you. I would like to make an amendment to withdraw the airport resolution because it needs more work and the airport will be communicating what they already have in place. So it's not needed. Okay, thank you very much. So that is, you're speaking of item 6.02, correct? Correct. Presentation. Councillor Jang has made a motion to amend the agenda to withdraw item 6.02. Is there a second? Seconded. Seconded by Councillor Barlow. Did you have anything else you'd like to add, Councillor Jang? No. Okay, thank you for that clarification. We'll go to a vote on the amendment itself to remove item 6.82 from the agenda. All those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? That carries unanimously. And now we are back to the motion on the agenda as amended. Any further discussion? Not seeing any. We'll go to a vote. All those in favor of adopting our agenda as amended, please say aye. Any opposed? That carries unanimously. And we now have an agenda, which brings us to item 2, which is a communication from CEDO Director Pine as well as David G. White, who is a consultant for the project from the city side. And we'll turn it over to Director Pine first and David G. White for a public session update as the mayor indicated in Board of Finance. There is an expected executive session. So we'll get to that potentially in a little bit, but first we'd like, I understand that I'd like to provide a public update. So I'll turn it over to you to Director Pine. Thank you very much, President Tracy. As I think it's important to provide a little bit of reminder and context for both the council and for members of the public. City Place Burlington is a private development project on private property that also involves public improvements, which is reconnecting our downtown streets and sidewalks. And Don Sinek's is the principal and his partners, which for this presentation will refer to as BTC, standing for Burlington Town Center. Purchased the property in 2014 and they did so on their own without any investment or involvement by the city. They control the property and the development is there as to finance and complete. And in November of 2016, the voters of Burlington approved both the TIF bond to finance the public improvements. So the connection of the streets and sidewalks as well as other public improvements, as well as a zoning change that was requested at the time. The demolition of the former mall took place in 2018, but construction ceased when the developer was unable to secure financing. The city filed suit against the developer in September 2020 to compel the developer to meet their obligations under the development agreement. The lawsuit was resolved by mediation concluding in February of 2021 and the council adopted the amended and restated development agreement that became effective in May of 2021. The city's development or view board issued a permit, a conditional use approval in March of 21 followed almost immediately by a group called 100 Bank LLC, which is the principal is Redstone and they filed suit on later that month of March of 2021 for breach of easement and property damages and filed an appeal of the zoning permit. In July of 2021, so last summer, the city brokered another mediation and the three parties settled later that month. I would just note that the city is sort of ahead of the game in a sense with this project because the public now owns the rights of way, regardless of any other outcomes of this project. And these rights of way were acquired by the city at no cost to the taxpayers and without pledging any of the TIF funds, which I'll discuss in a minute. In August of last year, the city executed a license agreement to allow city place Burlington to construct bay windows and areaways, which is just another word for the enclosures to access basements in the public right of way and underground stormwater tanks, all of which are within the city's right of way. A stormwater memorandum of understanding was executed in October that provides significant stormwater benefits to Lake Champlain by retention and treatment of stormwater and followed by Burlington Town Center met all the conditions of their zoning permit in late October of last year and the zoning permit was issued by the end of October of 21. So the developers at this point are legally bound to build the streets and the sidewalks either as part of its project with TIF financing or separately at their own cost if the project does not proceed. BTC and the city met their respective design requirements for the public improvements. So designing those public improvements that were promised by this project by the end of 2021. So that milestone has been accomplished. The plan for financing the public improvements has always involved using the voter approved tax increment financing. Last year the state legislature passed a special I'm sorry, in previous legislative session legislature passed a special provision that authorizes the use of TIF for this specific project. They actually called out the project in this legislation. In addition to TIF deadline for all TIF districts unless otherwise indicated was extended to June of 2023. So June 30th of 2023 in the last legislative session providing more time for accomplishing critical downtown development projects like this. But currently the city is negotiating a revised construction schedule that we will be bringing to the council for consideration in the coming weeks. Cityplace Burlington is currently seeking financing and hopes to begin construction as soon as possible. Due to confidentiality, we cannot elaborate but we are aware of substantial progress with respect to potential development partnerships, financing and construction. And in the upcoming executive session we'll provide more information on the confidential aspects of the negotiations and recent developments with respect to this project. And that's it for our presentation. Okay. All right, I appreciate that, Director Pine. Are you open to taking questions at this time from counselors? Absolutely. Sure, any counselors with questions on the update that was just provided? Okay, not seeing any, that being as it is then we will need to transition and we have the motions regarding executive session. It's that two-part motion, both of which are linked on board docs. The first is the finding. Is there a counselor who's able to offer a motion regarding the finding about the need to go into executive session? Is there a counselor can offer that? Okay, counselor Stromberg, go ahead. I would move that the council find that premature general public knowledge of information concerning contract negotiations regarding the city place center along with legal advice from the city attorney in regards to said contract negotiations would clearly place the city at a substantial business advantage. Okay, we have a motion on the finding. Is there a second? Seconded by the high tower. Any discussion? Council Hansen. Thanks, yeah, I'm sorry if I missed this but director Pine would you be willing to just for the public kind of in lay terms talk about the need for executive session? Cause I feel like it's not always clear to people why we need to do that. Sure, councilor Hansen. This is I think one example of what the Vermont General Assembly gives municipalities essentially the ability to conduct business in involving sensitive real estate discussions in this instance or contract negotiations. If the discussion were to happen in a public setting it runs the risk of making the negotiations very challenging if not impossible. So the city attorney can probably head some to that because I'm speaking sort of off the cuff on why we're going into executive session but basically there's sensitive and confidential information that we need to share with the council in order to have the city's negotiating position determined going forward. And that is essential to do in the opportunity that we can do that in a way that allows us to disclose information that we've been we're obligated not to share publicly. Great, I think that's helpful. And yeah, I don't wanna make you say any more than that for that very reason but I think that's helpful window and do it for the public. Thank you. Anyone else on the finding? Okay, I don't see anyone. So all those in favor of the finding regarding your executive session, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? That carries. Now, based on that finding is there a motion to go into executive session? Councilor Jing. I'm so moved to go to executive session. Councilor Jing, are you able to just please read the motion that's on board docs just so that we cite the relevant statute? Motion number two. Okay. Based upon the finding, I move that the council go to executive session to A, receive confidential attorney clients communication pursuant of one VSA, three, one, six, A, one, A, and F, and A, two. I believe it's three, one, three, is that? Three, one, three, A, yes. Okay, thank you. And who are you including in that, in your motion to go into executive Councilor Jing? The Councilor Pine, the attorney, the mayor's staff, and the consultant is Councilor Pine. Okay. I believe Director Spencer also. Yes, okay. And City Engineer Baldwin, friendly to the council. Okay. And to the attorney, and engine above. Okay. Thank you, Councilor Jing. Is there a second on the motion to go into executive session? Seconded by Councilor Hightower. Any discussion? Okay, not seeing any. Let's go to a vote. All those in favor of going into executive session, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That carries unanimously and we will go into executive session. Councilors, you should have received a link in your inbox to the executive session to go into. So you'll be leaving this Zoom and getting into a different Zoom for members of the public and others who are participating this evening in our meeting. Please stay on this Zoom as this will be the Zoom that we come back to. So that doesn't change for anyone else. So what you'll do is you'll then just stay on this until we come back to continue our city council meeting and we'll likely be back at or before 7.30 for the public forum. We won't start the public forum however, until 7.30. If you are interested in participating in the public forum this evening, please sign up by going to burlingtonbt.gov slash city council slash public forum.  For the forum, please don't do so more than once. Is that career, that makes it more confusing for me. So just please only sign up once and we'll be back with you once we've concluded this executive session. Thank you. Now come out of the executive session regarding city place. There's no action expected coming out of that executive session today. And we will now therefore head into the public forum this evening. We have quite a few folks signed up tonight. So really would appreciate it if folks are just are on at the time that they are paying attention and are ready to comment. I'd also ask that people please sign up or are named on the zoom under the same name that they signed up for public forum using that forum. So I can more easily locate you. In terms of the forum itself as you can see on the screen here each speaker will have two minutes. At the conclusion of that two minutes I'll let you know that your time is up and you'll not be able to go over this evening. Again, as I said before we do have quite a few folks who are interested in speaking tonight. And we wanna make sure that we can get to as many speakers as possible. In terms of the content of the forum itself please direct comments towards the chair. I understand it's a little bit unique tonight in that we are considering an appointment and that is a generally by its very nature a personal endeavor. So just would ask that people try to be respectful in that in your comments whether you're regardless of how you feel about the appointment please do not use profanity in your comments. And again, and please don't try to address other speakers in the forum really just try and stay focused on the issues that are at hand this evening or other city issues. I'm really just trying to create a forum where people are able to regardless of where they're coming down on this issue able to share their perspectives. So, and if you are in fact interested in signing up for the forum but have yet to do so the way to sign up for the forum is to go to burlingtonvt.gov slash city council slash public forum. That'll take you to a fillable forum that will then feed into a spreadsheet that we will use for that. If you've already signed up please do not sign up more than once. You do not get to speak more than once each person is allowed to speak once. In terms of the speaker order this evening we will prioritize Burlington residents in the order that they were received to be followed by non Burlington residents in the order that they were received. So we will start off therefore with the Burlington residents tonight. So, and I'll try and read off a number of speakers that are coming up in a row. So you know that you're coming up and can be ready to go when your speaker is there or when your speaker time has come. So just please pay again, pay attention to that. If I don't call your name that doesn't mean that I don't see you as signed up and sometimes people who have signed up but who are non Burlington residents wonder if we're getting to them. We do have that priority given to Burlington residents. So just if you're a non Burlington resident just please keep that in mind and don't think that we didn't see your sign up or didn't get your sign up necessarily then sign up again because that just creates further confusion. So having said all of that let's get into our forum for tonight. Again, if folks can please do their best to keep to those time limits that would be great. Our first speaker this evening is Garrett Graf to be followed by Ryan Nick, Vani Murad, Jeffrey DeSena, Alexandra Carambolas, Gil Livingston, Jean Bergman, Bob Kearnan, Kurt Wright and Jane Nodell. There's plenty more after that but that's just to give you an initial idea. So you know if you're either on deck or close to being next in the speaker order. So having said that I will look for Garrett Graf. Garrett I've located you actually I do need to be made host. So if I could just be made host please so that I can enable folks mics and perfect. Now having that, Garrett I've located you and have enabled your mic. Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be able to address the council tonight. I've known John Murad for more than a dozen years. We were friends long before either of us ended up in Burlington, both of us native Vermonters who longed to return to our home state and over the last dozen years as our friendship has deepened I've watched his career with pride and admiration. Overhanging this chief of police search for the last two years has been the sense that selecting John as our police chief is somehow settling. That somehow the search process has failed because it hasn't identified a better sexier candidate than John. That somehow with John we aren't getting a candidate fully committed to police reform nor someone who would care about the community in the way that it deserves to be. I strongly believe that impression is wrong. I want to argue tonight the affirmative case for his candidacy that whatever complaints anyone has about the process we shouldn't allow those complaints to undermine this very strong actually amazing candidate that we have to be Burlington's police chief. John's been trying to improve and reform policing for as long as I've known him. When we were first met in 2009 he was working at the NYPD on a special research and analysis program focused on how to decrease police shootings part of a sustained effort by the NYPD that led to a nearly 80% drop in shots fired by NYPD officers from the mid 1990s to the 2010s. Because of so much of my own work as a journalist focuses on law enforcement I have probably had hundreds of conversations with him over the years that have touched on policing and the challenges of the social contract between law enforcement and citizens. Burlington can't do better than John. We should be proud to have him as our police chief and grateful that he's chosen to make Burlington his town, dig in and make things better as he can. John is a native Vermonter born right here in Burlington and he's one of the brightest, most thoughtful and most reflective police officers of his generation anywhere in the country.  Thank you. Our next speaker is Ryan Nick to be followed by Vani Murad and Jeffrey Desena. Ryan, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Thank you for the time to speak tonight. My name is Ryan Nick and I'm here tonight to urge you to vote in favor of John Murad's appointment to be the next chief of the Burlington Police Department. Burlington needs a permanent police chief to bring stability both to the department and our community. I fear that if acting chief Murad is not confirmed to the position we will continue to see a deterioration of public safety and a demoralization of our police force. In the past few days, I've heard some say that this breakdown is the intended goal of some of this council. I don't agree. I feel and hope that no members of this council believe in the outright abolition of the police. For many in our community is becoming hard to understand how this council intends to rectify a situation that many feel the council itself created. I encourage you all to strive for more communications with Burlingtonians from all backgrounds not just those that validate your current position. I feel that in order to make the important, forward-looking and progressive changes to policing and public safety, we need a stable, properly resourced and professionally managed police department. A department in disarray is not a foothold for lasting and impactful change. We cannot go back in time. We cannot start the process over. The cost to do so will result in more damage and it's time to stop that damage. A no vote tonight will not be a step forward but rather a step back. Please vote yes tonight on Chief Murad's appointment. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Vani Murad to be followed by Jeffrey Desena. Vani, I have located you and have enabled your microphone. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Vani Murad and I am a resident of board four and I am the wife of John Murad which in some ways makes me a foremost expert on John Murad. I had conflicting thoughts on whether or not to call in because in some ways I feel like I'm not sure whether me calling in is really going to make any kind of difference because one, I feel like everybody who is in there who is testing a vote this evening walked into this meeting this evening already have been their minds made up. Even some even having their minds made up minutes after the announcement was made. I also feel like as being John's wife that I am very strongly biased in a lot of ways. So I really wanna take this opportunity to publicly state to my husband that no matter what happens tonight that I'm extremely proud of him and that I love him and that no matter what happens we're going to keep moving forward. Thank you very much. Thank you. Our next speaker is Jeffrey Desena to be followed by Alexandra Carambolas. Jeffrey, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Good evening. My name is Jeffrey Desena. I am a new resident in ward one. So unfortunately I don't have much to comment on the apparent popular topic of the night. But as we get settled in here in Burlington just wanted to let you all know that this has been a wonderful process and I found this town very welcoming. And I feel that Burlington has shown that it has many similar values that we have been looking for especially in terms of sustainability and a town for humans and not just for cars. But I felt compelled to share my opinion because there is one thing that is rather made the wrong way and that was the decision to implement a blanket mask mandate a couple of months ago. Now I understand the rationale back in December when cases were starting to rise coming off the heels of the Delta variant but in the end of January coming into February the situation has changed significantly and I would urge the council to vote no on renewing that mandate tonight. The Omicron variant that we have run into now has proven itself to be far less virulent than the previous versions of this virus. And we in Vermont who are highly vaccinated and have done an exceptional job handling this virus seem to be potentially on the other side. And I think it may be time to move past these measures that affect so many people and in ways that we're not entirely sure how it's impacting society and a subject that has received far too little attention in the scientific community. So thank you for listening and I urge you to vote no on renewing that mandate. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Alexandra Karambolis to be followed by Gil Livingston.  So after Alexandra I said, as I said, Gil Livingston then Jane Bergman, Bob Kiernan, Kurt Wright, Jane Nodell, John Collow, Paul DeSell, Amy Mellonkamp at Adrian. So I will come to Alexandra now. I've enabled your microphone. Hey there, my name is Alex. I'm calling to express my opposition to appointing Interim Chief Mirad as Permanent Chief. A time when Burlington is building a consensus around the need for accountability within our policing systems, we need a leader who shares this goal, who recognizes the data supported racial bias that exists within the department and actively seeks accountability for these actions, none of which has happened under his tenure. He has refused to acknowledge racial disparities within the department's policing. In his cover letter to the city for this job description he states of the data showing racial disparities that appear in arrests and use as a force. And I quote, the degree to which these equate with racial bias, equate bias is unclear. Now the data shows that in 2020, 28% of situations that required use of force within BPD were directed against Black residents, despite these residents making up 6% of Burlington's population. And roughly 37% of incidents where an officer drew a gun in 2020, that gun was pointed at a Black individual. I'm unsure what he feels is unclear about this data, but what is clear is that he is unwilling to admit this is a problem and we cannot have any forward progress until we have leadership that is willing to reckon with these realities. I also want to mention the recent CNA report which showed that Interim Chief Marad actually chose not to consistently staff the city's downtown on weekend overnights last summer, even though that area had the highest call volume within the city. Between May and June, right as the city was reopening from COVID closures, he assigned officers to patrol every area except downtown during the hours following bar closing times. This makes me seriously question his choices, their political motivations and his integrity in leading the department. It is evident that he has withheld coverage as a means to generate support for increasing funding to BPD. Additionally, the department under his leadership has launched a fear mongering campaign spreading misleading information about crime rates in our city that directly contradicts the department's own data. These are not the choices of someone who's going to lead our community away from divisiveness and it is certainly not the actions. Thank you. All right. We'll move to Gil Livingston to be followed by Jean Bergman. Gil, I've enabled your microphone. Thank you for this opportunity. Yes, I'm Gil Livingston, a 12 year resident in Ward 1. Frankly, I'm very saddened that as a community, we continue to struggle with the stress of the pandemic and as a community, we continue to live through slash and burn national politics. And then locally, we end up fighting over a divisive police search process. Instead of engaging a qualified search firm as the mayor first requested and then relying on that firm to advise the council on salary and other terms of employment, the mayor unilaterally pushes his candidate forward and engages in a strident sales campaign. So please direct your comments through the chair. We deserve a highly qualified police chief. But in the wake of George Floyd and police discipline issues here in Burlington, we also need to build broad community trust. Let's stop the blame. Let's stop the factual misstatements. Instead, please hire a search firm and conduct a fair open professional process we deserve. Thank you. Thank you. All right, our next speaker is Jean Bergman to be followed by Bob Kiernan. Jean, I've located you and have enabled your mic. Thank you. I ask that you vote against the appointment of John Murad to be the chief of police. Doesn't give me any great solace or happiness in doing that. But I've spoken to community members and they've made it clear that he's just not the right choice. They say he stoke community fears, betrayed the public trust by distorting crime figures, defeated a vice of narrative, and he's arranged for insufficient officer coverage in the downtown at weekend bars closing time and then try to blame the results on the city council. They say he's not shown a willingness to address racial disparities and bias in the department or that he can connect with all segments of our community, even those with negative views of policing. He's shown hostility to real community oversight. And I even had a chance to speak with him about the process of hiring officers and he was extremely defensive, despite my simply trying to get information. He's had two years to show us that he's the leader we need and I don't believe that he has. I need to comment about the mayor's process. He's picked a fight and unnecessary one with disappointment. The press statements have been full of ultimatums and transigence and sharp parts and rhetoric. There he's acted without consultation with the people he knows are needed to move forward. He's rejected compromises on the hiring process. I'm particularly troubled by how councilor Hightower's account of the recent process because it highlights the mayor's manipulation of this process for what seems to be clearly political purposes. I've been talking to people and they want us to turn down the rancor. They want us to try to work together to solve our problems and differences, to turn away from divisiveness, exemplified by the way this appointment has been pushed. Perhaps we can step back from the edge. Please reject the appointment tonight and push to reopen the search in a way that brings us together. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Robert or Bob Kearnan to be followed by Kurt Wright. I'll read off a few more after that just so that folks know who's coming up. So I have Bob Kearnan, then Kurt Wright, Jane Nodell, John Collow, Paul DeSelle, Amy Mellonkamp at Adrian, Yves Bradley, Callen Hilliard, and Mary Cox. Again, that's just a small group of folks who are just immediately next. There's certainly other signups after that. Robert Kearnan, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Thank you, President Tracy. Subject acting chief John Muire. Not only after recent community involvement, professional consultancies, reports, searches, and for myself speaking with my Burlington neighbors, but in addition to all these, we have in plain view in front of us a candidate that we ought to be clearly welcoming as our PPG chief. I appreciate the different points of view on this challenging issue. And just again, reading acting chief Muire as professional credentials and experience, serving over 11 years outside and over four years inside Burlington, along with his advocacy for a social services role in public safety, we clearly should now take the opportunity to bring this highly qualified individual to the post of chief. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Kurt Wright to be followed by Jane Nodell. Kurt Wright. Kurt, I've enabled your mic, I think. Yep. Kurt, it looks like you're on mute. You can just unmute yourself. How's that? Yep, go ahead. All right, thank you, President Tracy, Mr. Mayor and City Council. I hope tonight that you'll support John Muire's appointment as the permanent chief of police.  This is super critical to the department. I've spoken to a number of... Pause the timer, please.  Kurt, it looks like you're on mute again. All right. There we go. Go ahead. How am I doing on time? You got a minute and 38 seconds. I paused the timer. Okay, I've spoken to a number of police officers and they have let me know that this will be the last straw for some of them. We cannot afford to continue down this path. We need to find every way possible to enhance recruitment and retention and supporting Chief Mayor is one important action that will also add much needed stability to a department in near crisis. Anyone that watched the forum that last night that Chief Muire was on came away feeling like, how can any counselor not support Chief Muire? His answers were superb. He has a depth of knowledge of the department that's unmatched and he has the support from his officers in a way that I have not seen from any other chief and all the time that I've followed the police department in the city and that goes back decades. It is critical. We are moving into, we had 97 or 98 officers just a few years ago and we're now moving down into the fifties and it's continuing to hemorrhage. Hiring Chief, the Chief, as the permanent Chief will begin to resolve that problem to some degree. A yes vote tonight. Pause the timer. It looks like you muted yourself again. There we go. A yes vote tonight is to move the city forward. To begin the process of rebuilding our weakened police force and of bringing hope to officers and that are staying here and some that may be coming. A no vote is a vote to double down on the disastrous policies that have put us at this critical state that we're in right now. So please tonight, let's move the department forward, give our police department and our citizens hope that this crisis that we're facing can be averted. So please vote yes for John Meryton. It is super critical. Time is up. Okay, I'm gonna shift that back. So I've got Jane Nodell next to be followed by John Collow. Jane, I've located you and have enabled your mic. Thank you very much. I do believe that tonight is a turning point for us as the city. Either we will get a strong vote of support for Acting Chief Murad and we'll be able to move forward with rebuilding our police department, move forward with implementing the most impactful reforms in the CNA report or we will see more officers leaving Burlington for better futures elsewhere, leaving us in crisis mode in terms of public safety response and making no progress on reforms. I wanna thank Councillor Jang for organizing the town hall last night which gave the chief an opportunity to answer questions from the community. He demonstrated a solid command of best practice policing and an appreciation of the hard work before us that it will take to reach our aspirational goals of really ensuring safety for all members of our community. To those Councillors who have made a public pledge to vote no tonight. In June of 2020, you were so sure you were so very confident that Burlington didn't need more than 74 uniformed officers, including the officers at the airport. We now know that you were wrong. You were very wrong. And tonight is your chance to get it right and help prepare the damage that has been done. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is John Collow to be followed by Paul DeSell. John, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Hi. Thank you very much. John Collow, Ward five and I'm speaking tonight in support of acting chief Murad's appointment as the new police chief of Burlington. And I urge the city council to vote favorably on this matter. Over the past two or three years I've interacted with Mr. Murad on several occasions. My observation is an intelligent, thoughtful and compassionate member of our community. And the fact that he's also a seasoned law enforcement professional with demonstrated leadership skills and one who wants to serve our community. I believe Burlington is a better place in a stronger community with John Murad in it. Murad's candidacy has been a protracted process and yes, a frustrating one. Nevertheless, the city conducted a search process which yielded two qualified candidates including Murad. Perhaps more importantly, over the past 20 months Murad's leadership and management skills have in less than ideal conditions been on full display as Burlington attempts to reimagine what 21st century community policing looks like. In face of all this, I'm disappointed that the progressive coalition has already announced an outright rejection of this employment. While this opposition may resonate with the political base it just strikes me as self-righteous. For the good of our overall community I urge the entire council to vigorously debate John Murad's qualifications, experience and vision in an attempt to reach a positive decision. In the end, I firmly believe Chief Murad has earned this appointment and will lead a police department we can all be proud of. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Our next speaker is Paul DeSelt be followed by Amy Mellon-Camp. Paul, I have located you and have enabled your microphone. Good evening city councilors mayor. Thanks for this opportunity this evening. Early summer of 2020, I garnered my first impressions of John. He confidently and compassionally walked out of one North Avenue into a crowd of thousands. He did so to dialogue with a passionate and angry crowd as the building was being spray painted and vandalized and the crowds surrounded him. He stayed to perhaps find common ground. Protesters from the roof and hood of a car poured mock blood at his feet. He didn't yell, he didn't overreact and he didn't bring out officers to calm the crowd. He stayed calm and well mannered. By all accounts, this is how he has led the department since being made acting chief. I cannot believe many of you have handled this enormous pressure. What could have handled this enormous pressure the same way that John has every day since then. He has been able to win over the BPOA, countless community members and stakeholders. Now is the time to make this official. This community has suffered long enough. To you detractors, please get out of the way. Let this community heal and this department heal. To those around the table who wanna perhaps wait for a vote till after an election or were unhappy with the process that John clearly had no control over, please get out of the way. John has demonstrated time and time again that he has the best fits to rebuild the ranks and lead the greatest group of officers that this city is blessed to have. Please put aside your narratives and recognize the opportunity in front of you. To those officers abroad who are listening or watching this at home, please be aware, please be cognizant. Many out here are supporting John in the services that you provide every day. You've had a tough two weeks losing brothers all to the country and our prayers are with you guys. Keep up the good work, stay safe. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Amy Mellonkamp to be followed by Ed Adrian. Amy, I have located you and have enabled your microphone. Good evening. My name is Amy Mellonkamp and I would like to encourage city counselors to vote positively for John Morad for being our new police chief. I'm worried about the credibility of the police force and the role of a chief of police if Officer Morad is not approved. Given the complicated past years in Burlington, including multiple prior interim chiefs and many officers now leaving the police force, who would apply for the position of chief when it has become so politicized? Good candidates have plenty of other places to apply to instead. Given the many police chief vacancies around the country, many which are paying higher than what Burlington is now offering. Why spend $75,000 on a new police chief surge when the pool will undoubtedly be minimal given the intensity of Burlington politics and the pay scale that Burlington is offering. I'm also concerned that we now have fewer than 60 officers in the city compared to the many more officers we are now authorized to have. Who will apply for these frontline positions if there is not a permanent chief who will be invested in supporting and nurturing a caring, community focused and well disciplined police force in Burlington? Officer Morad has already helped the police, Burlington police force take strides in areas we all need to care about, especially hiring community, mental health, social work, resource positions attached to the police force responding to appropriate calls and community needs. Furthermore, Officer Morad's experience in New York City where he led large scale projects to examine and address police reform and smart policing practices will help to move our police force in the right direction. In my opinion, and in the opinion of many of my neighbors and community members I've talked to, Burlington can't do better than Officer Morad as our permanent police chief. He could be a police leader anywhere in easier communities, but he wants to be a chief here and invest himself in Burlington. I encourage you to vote. Thank you. Her next speaker is Ed Adrian to be followed by Eves Bradley at I've Located You and have enabled your microphone. Good evening President Tracy. What was it that Yogi Berra said this feels like deja vu all over again? I am rising tonight to speak in favor of acting police chief Murad to be the permanent police chief of the city of Burlington. And I don't expect that I'm going to be convincing anybody or changing anybody's mind, but I do want to draw a line in the sand because history will judge those that vote in favor of chief Murad and those that vote against chief Murad. This council often wants to create national policy in the city of Burlington. And that's an admirable goal. And when you're setting policy, that's something that you can strive to do. You can strive to make national headlines. You can strive to implement change, but you're dealing with somebody's life here. Life here. In my day job, I deal with police chiefs all around the state of Vermont. Sometimes I've had to fire them and sometimes I've had to hire them. I can tell you that chief Murad represents the best of the best. When I taught American politics and government, I had then representative David Zuckerman in my class and he said, people often try and effectuate change at the local level because it's something they feel that they can have power over. And I understand that you want to have power over this process, but don't wield that power in a way that is going to be vindictive, that is going to be selfish and that it's not going to be putting the best interests of the people of the city of Burlington at heart. So I would urge you to confirm the appointment of chief Murad or the city of Burlington and Ford's people. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Eves Bradley to be followed by Colin Hilliard. Eves, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Good evening, President Tracy and the rest of the council. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak. I'm here to voice my strong support for your consideration of John Murad to become the... Can you pause the time? From everything that I've learned of him is not only a great policeman, but someone who is rooted in our community, dedicated to our community, has children in our community and who believes in our community. Two years of what I would categorize as an extraordinarily challenging situation and not for one day has that removed his desire to lead the police department. I was a police commissioner for 13 years before getting on the planning commission and I have enormous amount of respect for the men and women of the Burlington Police Department. I know from my conversations with the few that I remember and still know who are on the force that things are extraordinarily difficult for them right now. That they feel that public safety in the city is at a low that we have never seen before and hopefully never will again. John Murad needs to be the chief in an effort to try to write the department, to stop the bleeding of people leaving the department and to give some form of certainty to the future of policing in the city of Burlington. I implore you to put aside your political differences. Public safety should not be politicized in the city of Burlington. It should be something that we all strive for, all believe in and all support. And I honestly believe that John Murad is the one to do it and to do it in a way that's innovative, in a way that's inclusive and in a way that will change the way that policing is done in the city. If there's one thing I can assure you of is that he's heard everything you've asked for him to do and he's willing to do it. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Colin Hilliard to be followed by Mary Cox as well as Karina Driscoll, Maxine Holmes, Christy Delphia, Hans Van Wies, Stephanie Seguino, Milo Grant, Joshua Ronsky, Lee Morgan, Leslie McKenzie, Cliff Cooper and Art Frank. There are still others that follow after that but I just wanted to give those who are more immediately next a little bit of an indication as to where you stand.  Colin, I've found you and have enabled your microphone. Thank you, President Tracy. My name is Colin Hilliard. I'm a resident of Ward 3. I'm reading a statement since the council today from the Burlington Business Association. On behalf of our 250 businesses and nonprofit members, please accept the following comments in support of the appointment of John Mirad as police chief. Public safety continues to be an issue of top concern to our members, especially our downtown restaurants, retailers and their staff. Since June of 2020, when the force was abruptly cut by 30%, conditions downtown have worsened. Appointing a permanent chief, one who can serve with the support of the community is critical at this time. It is critical to the rebuilding of our police department which has been decimated by a loss in sworn officers. It is critical to the future of the downtown we all love. It is also critical to implementing recommendations from the CNA report. We need stability now. John Mirad is no doubt a qualified candidate. He has been serving as interim chief since 2020. Over his 21th trial period, he has proven that he can get the job done. His commitment to this community have made remarkable challenges, his willingness to collaborate and engage with all members of the community and his desire to work on improving policing have been evident during what some may call a 20 month interview. As permanent chief, Mirad will be able to move forward with long-term planning and strategies in a way that interim chiefs simply cannot. Short-sighted actions are what have gotten us to the crisis we now find ourselves in. We must act for the future immediately. We can no longer hide behind claims of an imperfect process. A no vote tonight sends a clear message to our community, the police department, as well as other public safety organizations that the council is unwilling or unable to take action to support public safety in Burlington. A no vote is a decision to accept declining morale at BPD attrition, including amongst the department's command staff and continued public safety challenges in our city. Please vote yes on this appointment tonight. Thank you. Our next speaker is Mary Cox to be followed by Karina Driscoll. Mary, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Mary. There, okay, sorry I was muted. I'm speaking tonight to urge you to support the permanent appointment of chief Mirad. I've lived in Burlington for over 20 years and politically I tend towards the progressive. I had the permission of my family to give the following details. My family has struggled with mental health issues for over 10 years, sometimes requiring the intervention of BPD officers. The officers of today are thoughtful, kind and respectful, which is critical to deescalate a mental health crisis. This is very different, a huge improvement from officer response of 10 years ago. I was in a committee meeting a few years ago trying to explain to an officer that if a person is in a mental health crisis, they may not be able to hear or understand orders being barked at them by a police officer. The officer I was talking to looked at me skeptically, but then chief Mirad interrupted, he was then deputy chief Mirad interrupted and said that this was true of almost everyone. He said that barking orders is the least effective way of deescalating any crisis. The officer immediately changed his point of view and asked about other techniques to avoid escalating a situation. This led to a fruitful and new discussion. This is my first face-to-face interaction with chief Mirad and I was very impressed by his knowledge and understanding of human behavior and bid policing, as well as his instant ability to convince a younger officer to change their thinking. Over the years since then under chief Mirad's leadership, I've noticed a real and positive change in the officers responding to a family mental health crisis. The responding officers now tend to think first to listen and observe rather than just reacting. They want to help. I know that it's hard to trust many institutions, especially the police, given all that we have learned over the last few years. However, we are on the right track with chief Mirad. I believe that you will conclude as I have that chief Mirad is critical to the changes. Mary, your time is up. Thank you very much. Our next... I was not able to locate Karina Jeriscoe. President Tracy. Yes. Karina, just let me know. She's a little busy at the restaurant and it's not going to be able to participate. Okay, thank you. I appreciate that notice. All right, I will then go to the next person on the list who is Maxine Holmes. Maxine, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Maxine Holmes. Okay, hi, can you hear me? Yes, I can. Go ahead, Maxine. As a homeowner and voter in the city of Burlington for the past 50 years, I'm very impressed with John Mirad's credentials. As described recently by Garrett Graf and others and people who have spoken earlier. As I understand the process, the city of Burlington counselors were elected by the residents of Burlington to represent their constituents. Instead, the majority of them seemed to only represent themselves and the extreme policies of the party to which they belong. As a result, the city of Burlington and its residents have been made to suffer from their narrow-minded self-centered decisions. Burlington is no longer a safe place to live. And this latest senseless debacle is just one more example of their egotistical way of representing us, the people, they are supposed to be representing. If John Mirad does not get their ratification as Chief of the Burlington Police Department, I don't know what we're going to do. It's no longer safe to walk down a town to church street or down to the lake. Even in the daylight, let alone at night, perhaps to get and bring attention to our problem and how it is to live here, we need to walk up and down church street banging our pots and pans to get noticed and to be taken seriously, please. Please vote for him. I would appreciate it myself. Thank you so much. Thank you. Our next speaker, I was not able to locate Christie Delphia. So I'm going to go to Hans van Wies. And Hans, I have located you. After Hans, we'll have Stephanie Seguino. Hans, I've enabled your microphone. Thank you for your presentation. Sorry. My name is Hans van Wies, I'm a resident in award six. And I'm also a member of the board of the Queen City Police Foundation, an organization that perhaps not many people here may know about, but the Queen City Police Foundation was established to help build upon the operational funding that taxpayers provide annually for innovative initiatives, programs and equipment, all of which enhance public safety and further support to men and women of the Brownton Police Department. The Queen City Police Foundation also provides assistance to officers and employees and or their families facing challenging circumstances while in service to the city. These past two years have been tough on everyone. On you, on me, our families, our children, the elderly and people who are disadvantaged for many reasons, not the least because of social, economic, racial or other inequities. These past two years have also been tough on those working to keep us all safe. The officers and civilians at the Brownton Police Department, in our generation, if there was ever a time public safety was under attack these past two years have been it. The members of the Brownton Police Department, old uniformed CLOs as well as civilians need this city's support, especially from its leadership. Yes, indeed, it needs this city council support now more than ever.  One clear way of showing the support is to provide this team with a strong leader to guide them. We have such a leader, John Murat. Not only that, we are very fortunate that we received a comprehensive test drive for the past two years. We found the best person for the job. Let's please put policy, politics and advocacy agendas to the side and show this department the support it deserves. Provide the stability it needs so much and confirm your point of John Murat as Brownton's chief of police. Thank you, it's time to move on, please. Thank you. Our next speaker is Stephanie Seguino to be followed by Milo Grant. Stephanie, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Thank you, President Tracy and city councilors. As a police commissioner for the last 18 months, I've listened to the voices of Burlingtonians who have overwhelmingly expressed a desire to see change in our public safety system. Burlingtonians have indicated that they wanna reform-minded police chief that will usher in changes in several areas. They seek a chief who advocates for alternatives to policing, including adopting a cahoots-type model to address mental health challenges. They desire a police chief who will work towards a policing and public safety system that works for all, not just some Burlingtonians. That means a police chief who is willing to acknowledge and address racial disparities in policing and who is willing to explore the role of racial bias in our disparities. They also support greater community oversight of policing with the community weighing in via the police commission or some other independent body on disciplinary issues. Given this historic moment in which the desire for significant reform is so deeply held, not only here, but across the country, I regret that I cannot support the mayor's nomination of acting chief Murat. I respect many of his qualities, but in my experience, he does not possess the skills needed at this moment. I would add that my views are in part informed by executive sessions which are not open to the public. The skills needed at this time bear repeating. One of the most important is the ability to listen, to conduct business in a collegial, respectful manner, and to build positive collaborative relationships in the community, even with those people that chief may disagree with. Paramount is a willingness for a police chief to explore issues of race and racial disparities, and the community is calling for a thought leader who is both innovative and embraces police reform. And finally, we require a chief who is committed to working cordially and collaboratively with a citizen oversight body. In my view, and that of a super majority of commissioners, the current nominee does not possess the requisite skills needed at this time. Hiring the wrong person for a critical leadership position will set us back years while waiting to get it right is only a delay of months. Thank you very much. Thank you. Our next speaker is Milo Grant to be followed by Joshua Ronsky. Milo, I've located you and have enabled your mic. Thank you. I do not support this appointment and believe it will continue to divide our city. I urge city council to vote no. As a community member living in ward three and a police commissioner, I have given acting chief Murad a chance. He's been doing the job for the last two years and has had the opportunity to show that he can take actions that support reform, best practices, accountability, transparency, and that live up to his own words, but he has failed to do so. Chief Murad talks about the importance of serving our neighbors, but he has not found the balance required of the position, the balance between supporting the officers in the department and all members of the community. During serious and difficult discussions concerning use of force, community oversight and increasing racial disparities, he has not always been professional, nor has he upheld the decorum required for police commission meetings held in executive session. I have at times been stunned by his lack of empathy. His attempts to undermine the CNA report are also concerning. We need a new way forward. The constant fear mongering and vilifying of members of the city council for political purposes is not only unproductive, it insults and dismisses the voters who put them in office and in large numbers express concerns about our public safety system. Thank you and I yield my time. Thank you. Our next speaker is Joshua Ronsky to be followed by Lee Morrigan. Joshua located you and have enabled your mic. I think I was muted. Thank you, Council President Tracy. My name is Josh Ronsky and I am an 11 year Burlington resident and old North End homeowner. It is unfortunate that our city is now in the position of having to decide whether to confirm John Murad as police chief. Much has been written and said about the failed search process that led to Murad being the only qualified candidate left and why we must undergo a robust search process to expand the applicant pool. This alone should be enough to block the nomination but it is also important to look at his record. Our community wants and needs a police chief who will be an active partner in reforming our department and eliminating racial disparities. During his time with NYPD, he was the mentee of Bill Bratton, one of the largest proponents of broken windows policing which prioritizes strictly prosecuting low level nonviolent offenses and fosters a culture of racial and class discrimination in police departments. This is not at all the direction we want to take our police department. Murad may say that this is not how he will lead BPD as chief but actions speak louder than words. Over the past two years, he has been a major opponent of police reform. Just a few months ago, the ACLU put out a press release accusing Murad of running a campaign. This is a quote, a campaign of misinformation designed to instill fear in Burlington residents. One of the most important actions that is called for by the recent operational assessment of the BPD by the CNA report and reform advocates is citizen oversight of the police. Murad has been clear that he does not support civilian oversight. He has gone even further by denying that racial bias even exists within the BPD. This is not the leader our community or the BPD needs. If John Murad is appointed chief of police, it will only lead to further division between our department and the community. We need someone leading the department who is willing and enthusiastic in implementing the reforms called for by the CNA report and our community. At the very least, we need someone who understands that racial bias is a real problem in our department. John Murad has been clear about where he stands on these issues. We should believe him and reject the appointment so that we can move forward with a robust search process for a new chief. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Lee Morgan to be followed by Leslie McKenzie. And I'll read off a few more after that. We have Cliff Cooper, Art Frank, Susan Comiford, Rich Price, R.B. Alsop, Kelly Taylor, Nate Stevens, and someone who signed up as Robert. Lee Morgan, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Lee Morgan. Lee, it looks like your microphone is muted on your end. Lee Morgan. Okay, just saw Lee's drop off. So I'm not sure. Try and I can come back and see if we can get that working. I will go to Leslie McKenzie next. Leslie, I have enabled your microphone and... Thank you. I'm speaking in support of the appointment of John Murad as the Permanent Police Chief for our city. I really believe that Chief Murad is extremely qualified for the position. I believe we should be celebrating the success of finding an excellent candidate and confirming him tonight. He's clearly bright, articulate, thoughtful on policing and reform efforts. And he's successfully navigated essentially what's been a two-year interview process and done it admirably. I believe he's committed to what's best for Burlington and has the experience to move the department forward in a positive direction, including reforms. He also has the respect of his officers and of the community. I'm like many concerned about our safety and security in Burlington. I believe the actions of the city council to reduce funding by 30% without a clear assessment and strategic plan in place was reckless. I believe the result, the decline of the number of officers in the city now at a low level of 60 or 62, I think something like that. And potentially dropping further is precarious, if not dangerous. And I believe a vote other than yes tonight will cause further damage, further instability and risk to our city. I don't believe there's a point to be made here by focusing on what we're calling the process being flawed or not handled correctly. I believe that in today's labor, competitive labor climate or policing climate to reopen the search with essentially the same parameters and expected different result is extremely unrealistic. I think you have a great candidate right in front of you. I think we should be celebrating that. And I ask you to vote yes for him tonight. Thank you for your attention. You, our next speaker, I am able to, looks like I'm able to find Lee Morgan who I wasn't able to get unmuted before. So Lee, I've found you and have enabled your mic if you're able to speak now. Hi, can you hear me now? Yes, I can. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Technology's not my strong suit. Good evening, counselors. I am here to urge you to vote no on the nomination of Chief Select John Mirad. Tonight's vote is not about Chief Select Mirad. The vote is about the nomination. The nomination really has nothing to do with Chief Select Mirad. This nomination is about Mayor Weinberger. Mayor Weinberger has manipulated and sidestepped appropriate procedure that would build trust with the community. He has completely abandoned an opportunity to bring the community and law enforcement together. And now ahead of a contentious election, he is using the city council and Chief Select Mirad to claim tensions, weaponize his own citizens all in an effort to unseat progressive counselors in March. This is dangerous, shameful and a direct abuse of the people he is supposed to care for, steward and serve. This is a continuation of fear mongering about crime in Burlington, which has been a collaboration of Chief Select Mirad and Mayor Weinberger. The ACLU has called out Chief Select Mirad for using excessive press releases to manipulate the public perception of crime levels. Please do not take part in this blatant political maneuver. Let's do a proper search, be transparent in the process and give Chief Select Mirad the respect of being the best candidate and not a political pawn. Ask yourself why a nomination is happening now and the votes are not there. Ask yourself if you want to forego process and have the ends justify the means. Use your power to bolster democracy, transparency and community representation within the city council by voting no on the nomination of Chief Select Mirad. Thank you. Thank you. Her next speaker is Cliff Cooper to be followed by Art Frank. Cliff, I've enabled your microphone. Yes, good evening. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Well, I've been living in the city of Burlington for 50 years now. So I've got a long history here and we've actually been publishing the community paper for 21 years now. So we see a lot of things that happen in this city. Most of them bad, some of them good, some of them outstanding and wonderful. And one of those people are John Mirad that we've known now for three years since he's been up here in Burlington. And I can just tell you that our kids are 30 and 33 and we warn them when they come to town to be very careful going downtown and don't stay there later because of what's happening in the city. And with the reduction by the city council to move the population of the police department down to a level that is actually scary. Last night on a Zoom meeting we had, the chief actually said that they had people that go to the houses and they don't have enough people the rest of the people that are there. And thank God there were some detectives around to help out with that because they don't have the people to do it. And it's not the chief or it's not the department that reduced those numbers. It was all you guys sitting there. The good news is some of you are leaving next month and hopefully we'll get a whole new breed of people in and we'll get this city to be a little bit more progressive and move forward instead of the regressive things that we've been seeing happening in the city. Now what's happening today is a waste of my time. It's a waste of all of your time. And this should have been put to bed technically 20 months ago. I mean, this is something that should have been taken care of. If you go back in history and look at our school superintendent they went out and spend, oh my God, 130,000 to get him a visa to come into town. And they took that and we got a person that was not qualified to be where he is. We want to go out when we have somebody.  Thank you. Your time is up, thank you. All right, our next speaker is Art Frank to be followed by Susan Comiford. Art, I believe I've located you. Art Frank. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Yes, so I'm speaking first of all, thank you for listening all of you. I'm speaking in support of John Merrad as our next chief and I would hope that the council votes him in. I respect everyone's opinion here tonight but you have to look at John's resume and his qualifications. I think they speak for themselves. I mean, his resume is pristine. I'm not sure that you're gonna find a better person. We keep talking about the process. You're blaming the mayor. This isn't about the mayor. This is about the city of Arlington and protecting its citizens. I'm not interested in the mayor. I can't say that I support him fully anyway but we're not talking about the mayor. We're talking about the protection of the people of this city. It's interesting to note that we talk about people downtown on Market Street and that he didn't support. I mean, there's not a police officer in my neighborhood. I haven't seen one in the last, I don't know, six months. I had an incident Saturday at my house with gangs of kids coming down, banging on my door. It's getting out of hand and I blame the council for it. I'm sorry, I have to blame you for it. You're just not listening to everybody here. Crime is up as far as I'm concerned. It's getting worse. We have 60 officers. They all respect John. So I'm not sure what you're thinking. I respect you all. I think you're doing a great job. I wouldn't want to be on the council but I really hope that you think real hard tonight and do the right thing, protect the people of this city, stop the nonsense and support John and vote him into office. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Susan Cumberford to be followed by Rich Price. Located you, Susan, and I've enabled your microphone. Good evening. I'm a police commissioner and I'm also a homeowner in Burlington for the last 23 years. I joined the commission because this is a key moment nationally and locally to reimagine community safety and in particular, fair policing of communities of color. Eradicating racism and treating all community members equally is a key dimension of building community safety. While this applies to the police, it equally applies to every member of our community, not solely the police. However, as police carry weapons and tremendous power in their roles, eradicating racism in the police takes on additional urgency. This is at the heart of the urgency of police reform. It is at the heart of what kind of community we will be. What I am sharing with you tonight, I have already shared with Chief Murad. His strengths include being supported by his police officers, being data-driven as well as his commitment to the work. The question in my mind and the question you have to ask yourselves is whether he is the chief who can lead us into a new vision of community safety that serves all of the communities and constituencies in the changing Burlington. I have observed several interactions that gave me pause. First, I have observed him interacting very disrespectfully with two female commissioners in executive session. I did not expect this from a police chief in 2021. Collaboration and the ability to build relationships as well as interpersonal skills are key ingredients in leading community policing. My other major concern is that chief's openness to feedback, even from those whose positions obligate them to give it, I have frequently observed Chief Murad being defensive when commissioners offer feedback and share alternative perspectives on key issues. This is very concerning to me. If we are to eliminate racial disparities and build a city for all, not just the white citizens, but all citizens, we need a leader who can do so. At this moment, John Murad is not that man. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Rich Price, to be followed by Barbie Alsop, and I'll read off a few more to follow. So after Barbie, there's gonna be Kelly Taylor, Nate Stevens, Robert, Sally Hayes, Rob Gutman, Mack, Dave Patry, Gene Markey Duncan. There's still more to follow after that, but that just gives you a slice of who's to follow. Rich Price, I have located you and have enabled your microphone. Thanks, can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Thanks for the chance to speak tonight. My wife and I are residents of Ward One. We live here with our five sons and immediately next door to my elderly mother. We are deeply concerned by the deterioration of safety downtown and the hemorrhaging of committed officers within the Burlington Police Department. I believe acting Chief Murad is not only qualified, but he's the right person to help stabilize our police department and find ways to bridge differences within the community. This is a difficult time for our city and I believe that it will be even more difficult if this process drags on even further. I support Chief Murad and I hope the city council can tonight as well. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Barbie Alsop to be followed by Kelly Taylor. Barbie, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. I have unmuted myself and thank you very much. I am calling to describe a conversation I had with Acting Chief Murad after an NPA meeting last fall. We were discussing a number of issues that arise in the policing of our fair city. And one of the things that I brought up was my concern about police overreacting to perceived affront, in particular the two cases that we know of where we saw those videotapes of black men on the ground after being struck by police officers. And Chief Murad said to me that police officers have special protection for their actions because they need it in order to protect people's safety. Now, I am aware that there has been introduced in our legislature this year an act to abolish qualified immunity for police officers. I don't know if it's going to happen, but if it does, the position that Chief Murad was taking to me falls, it falls apart. But he was very insistent that being a police officer was something very special and needed to be protected. And I wonder if a man who is that committed to the idea that police can use violence against citizens is the man we want going forward. Thank you. Our next speaker is Kelly Taylor to be followed by Nate Stevens. Kelly, I believe I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Hi there. I am here to oppose the appointment of John Murad as police chief. This appointment would make a complete joke of the city's declaration of racism as a public health crisis. Acting Chief Murad is unable to even acknowledge the existence of implicit or unconscious racial bias. In 2022, this is an absolutely unacceptable position for a police officer, nevermind the chief to take. As a matter of fact, this is a naive and harmful position for any person to take. An inability to acknowledge racial bias is indicative of an inability to take accountability and contribute to the dismantling of white supremacy. It's no surprise then that acting Chief Murad is unwilling to work effectively with the Burlington Police Commission undermining police accountability. This is the exact opposite attitude that Burlingtonians, especially BIPOC Burlingtonians deserve. I hear many folks speaking in support of the chief based on years of experience. So sure, if we wanna continue to approach public safety the way we have for decades, the way that has led to a lack of safety for communities of color, then go ahead and appoint the acting chief. If we as Burlingtonians wanna move forward to think outside the box, you imagine a new way to approach public safety, a way that will keep all of our neighbors safe, then look for someone who can at least acknowledge and then work towards the dismantling of racism in the Burlington Police Department. Also, just as a side note, it's totally bizarre to hear everyone talk about how unsafe it is downtown. That is white supremacy in action. People making up fears about this city suddenly being unsafe. It's made up, it's not real and that's white supremacy. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is, I look for Nate Stevens. Nate, I'm not able to locate you. I'll look one more time. Nate Stevens can't locate you. Please folks, if you are signed on under a different name, please change your name using the rename function to the name that you signed on as. The next, or you completed the form as just so that I'm able to more easily locate you. The next speaker is Robert. So I'll look for that person. I believe I've located you and enabled your mic. All right. Thank you. I'd like to speak in support of John Mirad. I've heard a lot of people terminating on how there's no, there hasn't been an increase in crime, which is kind of bizarre since NBC national news reported on a major increase in crime in the Burlington area. And until the temperature plummeted, hardly a day went by and the addition of somebody reporting a break in or vandalism. So there is a major increase in crime and we need to stop hamstring in the police department, give them sensibility and support that they need and stop having to foster divisiveness. We also need to start moving past simplistic heuristics like unconscious bias. The data show that if you look carefully at the data, correlation unconscious bias, the behavior is extremely low. So you need to move past simplistic heuristics like that and look for what we actually need to do in policing. We've also seen across the country, strong reactions to gutting police departments and taking away stability. The very communities at some of the, some wealthy or educated progressives are claiming to speak in favor of strongly disagree with the policies they're taking. We saw that in New York city, the most strongly pro-police anti-crime person being elected mayor. These are things that everybody outside of a small group of wealthy elites are seeing and noticing and trying to act against. We need to move forward to help provide stability to the police, help rebuild the police department and provide safety for everyone in the city. That's all I have, thank you. Thank you. I see Nate Stevens. Thank you for raising your hand and showing your name under your name so I can come back to you. Nate, I have enabled your microphone. Nate Stevens, looks like you're muted on your end. Hey, can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Okay. The values of Broglie's police department are in line with policing nationwide. They're here to serve capital owners, private property and uphold the status quo. The same status quo that leaves community members freezing, sleeping outside and starting this winter during a global pandemic. The police departments of America are rotting to the core. I urge every officer to take a deep look into themselves. Why are you acting on behalf of the state that marginalizes black and brown bodies? Are you willing to place a critical role in upholding white supremacy?  The answer should be clear. You all need to quit your jobs and integrate in the working class society so we can start to see some actual change in this country. Badge 374 attempted to intimidate me, threatening to arrest me for filming on a public sidewalk. You should be ashamed of yourself for bullying somebody for exercising their right to freedom of press. Mirad exemplifies the idiocy of this police department. Okay.  I yield my time. Our next speaker is Sally Hayes to be followed by Rob Gutman, Mac, Dave Patry, Gene Markey Duncan, Alexander Stilth, or Stiff and Christopher Aaron Felker, among others to follow. That just gives you an idea of who's on deck. Sally Hayes, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Thank you. Can you hear me? Yes, I can. Go ahead. Great. I have lived in Burlington for 38 years and I wanna speak on behalf of appointing John Mirad as our next chief. I am gonna keep this brief. We have been in the middle of a global pandemic for 23 months. We have also been in the toughest times of policing and John has shown over the last 20 months through some really difficult times, patience and he has led us through some of the toughest times. And I feel as though right now, it's critical that we move forward. He's proven that he can do this job. Of course we all know that policing needs to change and that we need to adapt and change the times. No one's disagreeing with that. But the more time we take to go on for another 20 months or 24 months searching for another chief when we have one right before us is a waste of time. We need to start moving forward and start the hard work ahead. So I support John and I hope everybody here who knows that this is a difficult time has seen his patience and I just, I can't think of a better candidate. He's right before us. Thank you. You are next speaker is Rob Gutman to be followed by Mac. Rob, I've enabled your microphone. Hello, my name is Rob Gutman and I'm from Ward one. First I'd like to say to the city council just how much I appreciate all the time and effort you have each individually and collectively spent on the Burlington police chief selection process and all the work you put into your council work generally. I know it's really hard work. So a sincere thanks to all of you. As part of my campaign, I've been talking with many of my ward one neighbors and overwhelming and the overwhelming majority of these conversations center around a sense of urgency and hiring our next permanent police chief. There seems to be agreement that hiring a police chief is the crucial next step to stabilizing the department and only once stabilized can we start building out a complete public safety system that will serve all of our citizens equally, compassionately and professionally. While I understand there are some concerns and disagreements about the process that has led us to where we are today. I feel it's time to look forward by looking forward and not back. We can work on hiring the next generation of well-trained forward thinking officers. We can work on building out new resources and programs to properly address crisis response, mental health, support and racial equity. We can look forward to the day when public safety in Burlington doesn't just get back to normal but becomes better than it's ever been before. In the time since acting Chief Morett's appointment was announced, the public support for his approval has been significant. I believe that the majority of Burlingtonians want to look forward to John Morett as chief because of his strong commitment, desire and capability to both lead and change the department. I urge the council to approve the appointment of John Morett tonight. Thank you again for your time and for all the work you do on behalf of our city. Thank you. Our next speaker is Mack to be followed by Dave Patry. Mack, I've located you and have enabled your mic. Hello. Hello, can I hear you? Okay. I think it's kind of funny how every single person who was on the police commissioner board has said not to instate John Morett. I've just read the report from 2007 which has four complaints about John Morett's uses of force and violations of stopping frisk in the NYPD police misconduct database. All of which were against black and Hispanic residents. Now I'm not gonna say that these four incidents are gonna define his entire character but I don't think he's the hero of racial justice or form that everyone parades him to be. I also don't think that the people who are using the language of police reforms actually have the hope of police reform in mind if they had paid any attention to the police commissioner board. They would know that John Morett is not in support of reforming his police counsel and all the minor promises he's made in claiming to do so are crumbs to be thrown to us. John Morett can start my balls. Goodbye. Please, please don't do that. It's completely inappropriate. Our next speaker is Dave Patry. Dave, I was not able to locate you. If you're under another name, please rename yourself. Couldn't locate Dave, but our next speaker after Dave is Gene Markey Duncan to be followed by Alexander Stith and Christopher Aaron Felker. Gene, I'm looking for you. Gene Markey Duncan, I cannot find you. So I'm going to come to Alexander Stith. Alexander, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Okay. I think you can hear me correct. Yes, go ahead. Okay, perfect. Good evening. My name is Alexander Stith and I live in the New North End and I'm running for city council in Ward 7. Thank you for the time to be heard tonight. And thanks to each of you for the work you do as city counselors. One of the reasons I'm here is to be a consistent advocate for public safety and responsible governance. Prior to and now during my campaign, I've constantly heard concerns about the direction of our city and I am so grateful for the engagement from my neighbors in the New North End. In particular, I sincerely thank all of my New North End neighbors for their work to encourage our ward counselor to vote in favor of the appointment of John Murat as police chief. John Murat has the experience of being a member of the New North End police chief. John Murat has the experience to lead our police department out of its current difficult situation and the vision to lead it into a challenging future. I believe the public approves of him and we know the police officers support him. From everything we know about his record, he is abundantly qualified. As acting chief, John Murat has performed his duties admirably under undoubtedly difficult conditions. He has demonstrated a commitment to our community and to collaboration with those who may disagree with him. I believe this is the sort of leader we need. In order to make true progress, Burlington needs consistent and responsible governance. The relationship with the police as well as other departments should be looked at as a partnership rather than an adversarial relationship. As a father, husband, neighbor and engineer, a commitment to partnership and collaboration has served me well. This commitment has led me to run for office and will be my guiding principle throughout my service. Despite a cloud of confusion over the position of my ward seven counselor, it is my hope that he will make the choice which his constituents, myself included, have vehemently advocated for. I respectfully urge the city council to vote yes on the appointment of John Murat as chief of police. Thank you again for this time to speak and for your work. Thank you. Our next speaker is Christopher Aaron Felker to be followed by Amanda Skihan. Christopher, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Looks like you're... Okay, yeah, it looks like I was... I think I've located you. Should be able to speak. Perfect, can you hear me? Yes. Wonderful, thank you, Max. So my name is Christopher Aaron Felker. I am chairman of the Burlington Republican Party and a nine-year resident here of Ward three. I have to say that all of our collective dreams, both big and small, to improve Burlington cannot and in fact, won't be achieved until we have a city that is safe to live, work and play in. Burlington's problems are going to be best resolved by confirming a Burlingtonian to the position of chief of police. John Murat is that leader. Chief Murat is exceptionally qualified. He has the confidence of his officers. He has the confidence of the Burlington Republican Party and is the right choice to lead One North Avenue. I have spoken with many members of my party and members of the public who wholeheartedly agree with this position. Chief Murat is forward-thinking and understanding. He is a kind, compassionate man and is the right choice at the right time to bring Burlington and Burlington policing into the 21st century. Chief Murat's credentials and his open-mindedness to reforms position us uniquely in a place and time where we can build the Burlington Police Department to be the exemplar of policing in the state. Other states can study what we do here. Chief Murat is that leader to bring us forward. I asked this council. I specifically asked my city councilors right now. Please, please approach this with an open mind. This is an annual position. It will come up for review again. Chief Murat deserves your respect and we're asking you to please vote for him tonight. Thank you, I yield the rest of my time. Thank you. Just so folks know, if folks are using an older version of Zoom, it requires you to promote that person to panelists to allow them to speak. So that's why that happens in that way sometimes for some speakers for using an older version of Zoom, that's why their video appears. In those cases, most people just join with audio because they're using a more current version. So just so people are wondering why that's happened. Our next speaker is Amanda Skihan to be followed by David Kirk, Matthew Kim, Anne-Marie Klein, J.F. Carter-Newbizer, Sarah Spray-Reagan, Annie Lawson, Sarah Sirtino, Ray Ingram, Anne-Marie Klein. I'm actually, Anne-Marie is twice so we don't get to go twice. And I'll leave it there for now. There's still others to follow but I will go to Amanda Skihan right now. Amanda, I've enabled your microphone. Thanks, Max. We need a chief with compassion and creativity to helm our department as it transforms to find new ways to address unmet human needs that lead to crime. That chief is John Murad. Chief Murad has publicly advocated for diverting many non-violent crimes into restorative justice. Something that we're doing now but it's important to have a chief that recognizes the usefulness of that and the value of embracing that even more so going forward. Remarkably, he has also gone out of his way to ask for the state to create pathways to keeping those with mental illness in care settings rather than in prison wherever possible. He's given multiple interviews about this. I grew up around cops and I've never heard of a more progressive officer. He's also implemented CSOs and CSLs to divert people out of the criminal system again, where it's possible. Just as invaluable, he has the trust of the rank and file officers for any of our reforms to work. We need officers to trust their management. We've lost so many officers in these past two years including to departments like Shelburne which has really low morale. I believe we lost an officer there about a year and a half ago and they have lower wages, significantly lower. That speaks of the anxiety that they're feeling but they trust John Murad. They've told us that. So let's utilize that good faith to implement the change that you're looking for. Renew your friendship, work together towards progressive goals. This can be done. We can sit here and daydream about a perfect police officer or a perfect chief. I can tell you that you will not find that out there. You will not find somebody who will meet you exactly where you are at right now but you have someone who is very good. Perfect is the enemy of very good. Let's work with very good and go forward together. Thank you so much. Thank you. Our next speaker is David Kirk to be followed by Matthew Kim. David, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. All right, I would just, I just wanna speak briefly as a resident of Ward 7, the New North End somebody who has been elected multiple times served on the city count, sorry, the school board worked with the leaders of the city. I just wanna speak that we need to seat John Murad as chief of police. We need to get our police department in order. We need to get our house in order. Blanket cutting the city of Burlington's police force by one third was irresponsible. I'm glad Merle Weinberger finally stood up and appointed John Murad as chief. It shouldn't have taken him 20 months. I don't always agree with the mayor, but in this case, I think the mayor is doing the right thing for the right reasons. We need to rebuild that police department. It's gonna take decades to get back to where we need to. There's no way we can hire 15 police officers in the next 12 months. There's no way the city is gonna be safer in the next 12 months. And if we, John Murad is in and leaves and the department crumbles, then we're gonna have a police force that we have no control over because other police officers from other cities and state entities will be in here doing their policing. You will then have no authority to stop them. We need safe place to live and we need John Murad to lead that and we need it done now. You guys need to get off this and get moving. I applaud my city counselors to do the right thing. Walter coming up. You guys don't wanna be elected. You don't wanna be here. You're leaving, but leave on the right foot. Thanks. Thank you. Our next speaker, I was not able to locate Matthew Kim. So I'm gonna go to, and again, Matthew, if you are signed up on a different name or a name that it does not correspond with what you signed up as, please just use the rename function so that I can locate you. Our next speaker after that is Ann Marie Klein to be followed by J.F. Carter Neubiser. Ann Marie, I believe I have located you and have enabled your microphone.  There you go. Hear me now. So, hey Max, this is Gus Klein, Ann Marie's husband. The reason she was on there twice is because I didn't know what I was doing the first time. So I put her name. So anyway, I'd like to just say a few things. If I could, please to the council and to you as the president. As a taxpayer, I'd like to know who the council is trying to protect. Is it the criminals or is it the law-abiding citizens who have made this city what it is today? And would like to keep it safe for the future. Please select Chief Murad to dig Berlton into the future and to ensure that we as residents are proud to live and to raise our families here. In Berlton, not Gotham City, what it feels like at this time, it is clear that the majority of the speakers have told the council and you to put John Murad into this position. Do the right thing as a council. Vote yes tonight. Thank you very much for your time. I'll yield my time. Thank you. Our next speaker is J.F. Carter-Newbeeser to be followed by Sarah Spray-Ragan, or Regan. J.F. I've located you. Go ahead. Hi everyone. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen to the public and for your service to our city. I'm calling in to oppose the appointment of Chief Murad. During his time leading the department, he has publicly said that he does not believe racial bias is an issue for our police force. He's actively opposed civilian oversight of the police. And he has used his office, a city department head, in a political matter to generate public opposition to reform. A few months ago, the Vermont ACLU sent out a press release saying that Murad had been running, quote, a campaign of misinformation designed to instill fear. We need to reject this appointment and restart a robust search process to identify candidates who are willing to work with the community in support of police transformation and do so in good faith. And very quickly, I agree. It's super important that our chief has the buying of the officers. But if that chief is not interested in actual reform and doesn't have buying from the community, and doesn't share the community's vision for what public safety should look like, that buying doesn't really mean too much. I'll yield the rest of my time. Thank you. Our next speaker is Sarah Spreeregan, or Reagan. And if I get your name wrong, please absolutely correct me. I appreciate that. The next speaker after that will be Annie Lawson.  So I have Annie Lawson, or Sarah Spreeregan to be followed by Annie Lawson, Sarah Ciotino, Ray Ingram, Katie Lesser, Lydia Kern, Paul Fleckenstein, Janice Kutcher, Fareed, Infinite Cochleisure, Robert Bristow-Johnson, Elaine Martin, there's still others to follow, but just wanted to give you a sense of who's to come. Sarah, I believe I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Sarah, it looks like you are muted on your end. Sarah Spreeregan, seeing you unmuting yourself. Sarah, you can unmute yourself. Okay, not seeing that. So I will go to the next person. We can try again on that. So the next speaker is Annie Lawson to be followed by Sarah Ciotino. Annie, located you and have enabled your mic. Good evening, can you hear me? Yes, I can, go ahead. My name is Annie Lawson. I use she, her pronouns. I'm a social worker and I live in Ward 4. In the past two years, there's been a lot of talk about the role of safety in Burlington. Tonight, we have heard a lot of people talk about feeling unsafe in Burlington. There's been a lot of talk about the role of trust between police and community members. Whoever holds the position of police chief in Burlington can either start the work of repairing trust between community and police, or they will contribute to the existing right between community and police. The search for a chief has had many obstacles. And while many people agree that they were hopeful for more applicants, it seems like the decision to appoint Mirad is one that is more about convenience for some than about a true good fit for the community. I say this based on the many community members who have shared their views in opposition to Mirad and in opposition to the culture in the police department that he has contributed to. Different community members have different experiences with police and many of these break down along the lines of race. We've heard this from callers tonight. And while I can't see folks in this virtual setting, it seems like a whole lot of white people have said that fewer police in town make them feel unsafe while people of color are saying that police themselves make them feel unsafe, particularly within the current culture of BPD as John Mirad has created it. Which voices are you choosing to value tonight? While these remarks are directed to the council president, I want to express my dismay and disgust at the ability of white counselors to find ways to justify a vote for Mirad. A vote that would continue the current culture of threat that BPD presents to many community members and which is in direct opposition to the voices of many people of color. To the white counselors, after hearing from so many of your neighbors, particularly BIPOC folks, how do you square a vote for Mirad as a vote for BIPOC safety in Burlington? How do you justify that to yourself? How do you make peace with that? How do you square that blatant disregard for BIPOC lives which it all represents? Three times up. Our next speaker is Sarah Sirtino. I believe I've located you to be followed by Ray Ingram. Sarah, I have enabled your microphone. Hi, can you hear me? Yes, I can, go ahead. Hi, I am just calling into express my express opposition to John Mirad's appointment as police chief. As many have stated, the process that led to his appointment was very flawed. He's failed to take accountability for his actions and spread misinformation about crime rates in Burlington creating a lot of distrust amongst the community and doing so with clear political motives. And I mean, after hearing all of the public comments tonight I really don't know how any city counselors can in good faith support this appointment. Someone who really doesn't understand and denies the reality of racial bias in Burlington policing does not have a place as police chief a role that should really only be held by someone who has a lot of broad community support in the name of public safety for Black, Brown and female and non-binary transformers. I really urge counselors to vote against John Mirad's appointment as police chief. I yield my time. Thank you. Our next speaker is Ray Ingram. Ray, I'm not able to locate you. So I'm gonna go to Katie Lesser to be followed by Lydia Kern. Katie, I'm not able to locate you. So I'm gonna go to Lydia Kern to be followed by Paul Fleckenstein. Lydia, I have located you and have enabled your mic. Hi everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight and thank you so much city counselors for all your work and your persistence this year. I'm calling to express my opposition to nominating John Mirad as the police chief. I'm really concerned and it does not make me feel hopeful about our city's ability to dream about reforming the police and the future of safety in our community. It's concerning to me that he was never officially interviewed by someone on the search committee. It's also really concerning to me what members of the police commission have expressed about his defensiveness and his ability to have interpersonal dialogue about these things. It's one thing to say you believe in reform on paper. It's another thing to discuss these things and make decisions in the presence you bring to these reforms and the passion behind reform. And I understand that this is a messy process but taking more time when you're undoing centuries of systemic racism is going to take time and I just urge people to vote for a candidate that is a better fit. So thank you, I yield the rest of my time. Thank you. Our next speaker is Paul Fleckenstein to be followed by Janice Kutcher. Paul Fleckenstein, I've located you and have enabled your mic. Hi, I'm Paul Fleckenstein. I'm a resident of Burlington. And I want everyone to remember that in July of 2015, the mayor, the city council and business leaders promoted the last permanent police chief to the city council. Chief Delpozzo was advertised as an innovator, a reformer, someone schooled in community policing and over qualified perfect fit for Burlington. Over a hundred racial justice activists and other proponents of democracy and justice came to this meeting to speak against disappointment. We pointed out that Delpozos, we pointed out Delpozos' training and ties to New York City intensive community policing, known for racial profiling and violence against working class people. Opponents also pointed out connections of NYC policing, broken and broken windows policing to real estate interests, commercial priorities and gentrification. The Delpozo tenure was a total disaster and that chief was dead set against democratic oversight and we saw arrogant abuses of power. The city council made a huge mistake in rubber stamping that nomination. There's plenty of evidence not to do the same thing. I hope the city council doesn't make the same mistake again. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker is Janice Kutcher. Janice, I have not located you, not able to find you. If folks are under a different name, please just make sure that you are signed in under the name that you signed up as so I'm more easily able to locate you. Following that is Fareed and after Fareed is infinite co-cleanser. Fareed, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Thanks. In supporting Marat's appointment, we hear tonight the same people saying the same things as they did when they urged the council to appoint Brandon Delpozo who as Burlington's top law enforcement officer broke the law by lying under oath in court documents among other things. Now the public safety crisis did not begin in July 2020 and the loss of public trust in Burlington's law enforcement wasn't due to the death of George Floyd or the decision to transform public safety wasn't due to national trend either. We've now seen a decade long pattern of not just refusal to hold accountable the government officials uniquely empowered to use violence to kill, to maim, and to detain but we've also seen this administration display its willingness to use force to advance agenda of the business class especially against working class poor and low income people in our community those who can't afford to attend meetings like this and those who are least able to fight. The administration's failure to hold police accountable and refusal to allow community oversight of the department have not only eroded public trust but also resulted in Burlington's worst public safety record with more civilians having been killed by officers during his administration than in all of the previous administrations in Burlington history combined. The fact that despite all his pronouncement and assurances about the situations in Sarah's Lane that the mayor never actually visited the camp once and inside relied on the chief's report. It's very concerning and the appointment to me will signal that Burlington isn't really transforming from a community-based policing but rather into a police-based community where the failure of this administration is backed by force and in dealing with the conflict that the failure generates. So please vote no and thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is infinite co-cleanser to be followed by Robert Bristow Johnson. Infinite, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Thank you, Council President. Infinite co-cleanser and I live in Ward 3 about 30 years. Right, deja vu. Confirming another police or trying to not confirm another chief of police and though the council did go with that one the council had nothing to do with the resignation of Brandon Del Pozo which is partly how we got here. What's happening in the city has everything to do with the unwillingness of, you know to deal with the root problems that plague our city. For example, this council has nothing to do with the record of this acting chief and this administration's lack of progress in stemming the deaths and the crisis related to opioid misuse disorder. If the mayor had visited the camp he would have seen that it was more than housing. You know, there were people struggling down there with opioid abuse. And this council had absolutely nothing to do with Wellington police officers administering ketamine to a minor after they escalated the situation. This young person struggling with mental health issues I could not believe my eyes watching footage of four Wellington police officers creating a medical emergency and taking down a young teenager over some vapes. The mother of this kid regretted calling the police and eventually filed a complaint to Murat. He ignored her and Murow backed Murat. There's nothing innovative about that kind of policing or leadership and not the direction we wanna be heading in as a city. One thing to win over the BP OA is a completely other thing to lack the courage to challenge them to grow.  Thank you. Our next speaker is Robert Bristow Johnson to be followed by Blaine Martin. Robert, I have enabled your microphone. So good evening. I'm here to not talk about the big issue at hand today but a big decision that you're going to be making next week because you're required to make it by February 15th and that is the reapportionment of our house Vermont house districts for Vermont house of representatives. You're gonna be seeing another map coming from the legislature that's going to be called the LAB alternative map which is an incremental change from the current map we have and it's much, much better than the all single member map which is guaranteed to remove three of our 10 representatives from the Vermont house. This one has no musical chairs but it can still be better. We can, this is your opportunity now for us to do some revamping and reforming of the legislative map in Burlington we could have five two member districts it would be completely consistent and there also would be no musical chairs so that there wouldn't be a political bloodletting in a primary or something like that. We can instead of dividing neighborhoods like Murray street we could be instead running a line down Winooski Avenue or a line down Willard Street or a line down Main Street. This legislative, this alternative map is good but it isn't as good as it could be in item number 5.06 you have a five district map that also preserves neighborhoods like the Bob and Mill and King and Maple street neighborhood and I encourage you to take a good look at that. I will this week send you two more maps for you to look at but we can do five consistent single member, double two member districts throughout Burlington and that's what we should do. Thank you very much. Thank you. Next speaker is Blaine Martin to be followed by Andrew Overy. Blaine I have located you and have enabled your mic. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to address the council. I'm speaking tonight to support the appointment of Chiefs-Lev John Rod. I think there is a consensus on this council that we want leading edge community-based policing. At least I think there's that consensus in our community. I also think that there shouldn't be any question that we have a safety crisis in our small city of 45,000 people. This past summer, everyone knows, I'm sorry to take up your time but we had open gunfights in the middle of the night in multiple neighborhoods throughout town, not just downtown. We've had them in the new North end where I call my home. We had multiple gunfights in the same gas station, as I recall. It's a real crisis. And I understand that there were some objections to the selection process. The fact is that there was a national search and yielded two candidates, one of whom dropped out. And it isn't a stretch of the imagination to say that the context created by this committee when they chose to enact the hiring freeze created a context in which a top national candidate would not want to move themselves mid or late career with their family, potentially children to Northern Vermont and face the kind of challenges that Burlington faces. Now, we're very fortunate because we have in Jamarad a top national quality candidate who I'm fairly certain could go out to cities of much greater size with a much larger role and get a top job. He has the academic background, national quality experience at the NYPD. And he has, most importantly though, he has a commitment to this community and he has a commitment to progressive policing. Now, there might be disagreements on the council about what that means, but he's committed to this community and he has the trust of the force. And I think that's the most important thing that I'd ask you to support his appointment tonight. Thanks. Thank you. Our next speaker is Andrew Overy to be followed by Peter Jack Katch. Andrew, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. All right, hello, thank you. Thank you so much for your time and thank you so much for all of your work counselors. Acting Chief Merritt's time here in this police force has largely been defined by contempt. Contempt for the unhoused in our community, contempt for the people of color and contempt for the mere concepts of truth. So the ACLU, the American Civil Liberties Union has called out Mayor Weinberger and Acting Chief Moran for his fear tactics and for his, quite frankly, obvious lies. On crime rates in Burlington, and he has used and Chief Merritt has employed these quite these insane press releases in the attempt to scare residents into hurting their own community members. I've spent a couple of years in Burlington. I cannot claim to have the same experience as many of the other people here. And however, in my time here, I've never once felt unsafe truly. And the idea that, and I have the data, police incidents have nearly halved since 2017. And overall crime rates have significantly, have noticeably, have either stayed the same or noticeably dropped in many cases. And I think it's quite frankly insulting of Chief Moran and of many people here to claim that, to show up and claim that. And to show up and throw their support behind someone who clearly has contempt for the racism in Burlington Police Department. And I believe that Chief Moran is simply unfit for this role given his refusal to acknowledge basic facts about Burlington Police Department. Thank you. Time is up. Okay. Next speaker. I'm not able to locate Peter Jack catch, but I do see Shereen Hart. So Shereen, I'm gonna come to you. There we go. Enabled your microphone. Thank you, President Tracy. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. Great. So I'm Shereen Hart, a Burlington resident. I'm on my second term as a police commissioner. And I respect the earlier comments of my fellow commissioners, Seguino, Grant and Crawford. However, if you attended the town hall last night that was hosted by Councillor Jang, you would have heard my fellow commissioner, Kevin Garrison and I speak in support of acting chief mirad. I've appreciated his willingness to be self-critical and to identify areas of improvement in himself, the department and his officers. He's in fact contacted me after contentious commission debates as referenced some of those executive session meetings to discuss how he could have and should have handled the interaction differently. Contrary to what has been said by some tonight, acting chief mirad embraces reform and recognizes its importance in the city's future. However, he will not simply rubber stamp or say yes to every proposal presented, which I respect. Instead, I know that he will give thoughtful consideration to all proposals. It has been my experience that a lot of beliefs and views have been ascribed to him. But when I actually speak with him, I don't hear these things about policing and reform in terms of the dismissive views. He supports reform in our conversation. He supports increased civilian oversight. He recognizes there are areas that require improvement in his department. The chief and I have disagreed on a variety of topics, but I nonetheless support him and I trust him. I believe he is who the city needs right now and I'm confident that we will be able to advance robust police reform under his leadership. Thank you. Thank you. Next speaker is Brian Cina to be followed by Solvi Overby, Gray Bereta and Alexis Grundy. Brian, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. Can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. I wasn't gonna speak tonight. I was just gonna listen, but someone brought up the $130,000 spent on the school board search for a superintendent and I wanted to speak about that process. I was elected to the school board in 2014 at a time of great conflict and instability in the school district. There was a crisis of leadership and a failure of public confidence. We launched the search and it was a massive search committee and when the search committee said they felt like they were missing voices, we added them. We crafted a vision for the position, we did bias training, we had a search consultant, we had training and success factor interviewing. We had a complicated matrix for assessing candidates based on the vision. We followed the guidance of our HR staff and our equity staff. We had three public interviews with students, staff in the community, a private interview for both of the final candidates with the full school board. We were prepared to reopen the search but a candidate stood out with broad support across all groups. There was only one no vote and the reason that school board reverberate voted no was they said we were paying him too much. They supported him. So for $130,000 or whatever it was, that's what you got. A process that engaged the community deeply. There was almost unanimous support for the candidate. No one resigned from the search committee and we listened to the black women who worked for our school district and human resources and equity when they had concerns. What do we get for the $75,000 we spent on the recent public engagement process around policing? Not all that. So I guess I had to say that for the record. This is not about the candidate. This is not about our police. It's about the process for me. I just felt like I had to weigh in that we can do better. That in this time of great conflict and insecurity where there has been a crisis of leadership and there is a failure of public confidence, we need to come together as a community in the spirit of partnership and compromise. And we need to build a vision for the police department that we all can get behind and then we need to lead a search and find something to do that. And John Murad is welcome to apply. This is not about you, it's about the process. If you come at the end of that process, I would support you for hearing me out. Thank you. All right. The next speaker, I was not able to locate Solvi. Oh, Solvi, I did find you, okay. So Solvi Overby to be followed by Gray Bereta. Solvi, I've enabled your mic. I'm calling, can you hear me? Yes, go ahead. I'm speaking to asset the city council not appoint acting chief John Murad as a permanent police chief. The professional national search should be completed. And I wanted to just, I wasn't gonna speak either but a segment on Soledad O'Brien's matter of fact listening to her yesterday morning gave me a real clear view of what Burlington will be giving up if John Murad is appointed the permanent police chief. That video segment was about the Syracuse, New York police department citizen interview panel. This citizens panel meets with prospective police officer candidates that asks different questions and those related to their past work experience and technical skills. The citizens ask questions like, how candidates explain their police role to themselves and to the community. This sharing of the hiring interview process is a novel and perhaps would be uncomfortable to many old style police chiefs. Acting police chief Murad's past actions persuade me that he would not be the leader for Burlington to have something like Syracuse's citizen interview board. Old school policing styles will persist in Burlington if Murad has made the permanent chief. He's just not the person to initiate innovation. Syracuse, New York has clearly decided it wants a different sort of police department providing public safety services and it wants the citizens to weigh in on who gets hired. As a result, they will get the kind of police officers we might want. If we don't choose an innovative chief, we'll just continue to get police officers that will be content to do things the old ways. With the right police chief, police officers who do want to be innovative will be drawn to Burlington and we will welcome them. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Gray Bereda to be followed by Alexis Grundy. Gray, I've located you and have enabled your microphone. I can hear me. Yes, go ahead. Thank you. I appreciate the time that you've taken to listen to us and as the spoke person and member of the community of the Dunham House residents of Sears Lane, I'd like to communicate some things just regarding this potential supporter or appointment of John Murad. On December 10th, under the cover of darkness, there was a full-scale siege on our persons, our shelters and personal property in the middle of the night with rental cars displaying out of state licenses armed with assault rifles and supported with helicopters, armed vehicles. The city descended on a population of unhoused people, a community of several community members of representing much of the diversity of the demographics of Burlington. Under the threat of lethal violence, every measure was taken to ensure that no one left with more than the close on their back. At least four members of the encampment are still dealing with life-threatening injuries with multiple yard visits incurred during the violent expulsion. The seizure and disposal of our shelter, transportation, food and clothing under the cover of darkness is a knowing and willful endangerment of human life with the intent to intimidate a civilian population and influence government policy within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States. What occurred on December 10th conforms with the FBI definition of domestic terrorism title 18 US code 2331 on a civilian population of citizens of the United States. Thank you. Thank you. So it is now 930 counselors. That is the time that we had approved for the public forum. There is one Burlington resident left and nine non-Burlington residents left in the queue. Is there a counselor wishing to make a motion to extend to complete the remaining names? So move President Racy. Move by Councillor Jiang. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Councillor McGee. Is there any discussion? Sorry, Councillor Shannon, are you looking to be recognized? No, that's fine. Okay, I can't. If we could go out of the screen share mode just briefly. Okay, anyone looking to be recognized? No, okay.  All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That passes and we will complete the names that have already signed up. You're on, President Racy. Thank you. Alexis Grundy is our next speaker and I've enabled your microphone. If we could just get the timer up just in just wait one second. Thank you so much. For five years now, I was a Sears Lane resident previously before they came in and hold those everything. I don't personally know Chief Maraz but from what I've gained from my current encounters with him is that he tried multiple times to take everything away from me and ended up succeeding. I am a team. I ended up at Sears Lane not because of my choice but because I didn't have anywhere else to go. And from then on, the first time I showed up there I was immediately harassed and stereotyped by police officers including Chief Maraz. I did lose everything the night that they came at 4, 25 a.m. in the morning. And whenever I opened my front door, I had eight to 10 cops, all dressed in suits, all in like grunt gear behind a shield asking me to leave my home, take my dog. They actually threatened my dog because my dog did get in between us at one point and started snapping at them. But at that point they were standing at my front door with guns in their hands trying to force me out of my home with my boyfriend sleeping on the couch behind me.  But regardless, I've had more than just that encounter of that night with Chief Maraz. The very first encounter was their first attempt at trying to force us out of Sears Lane which the first attempt, they were not successful because of the activists that were helping us try and keep our homes. The first attempt, we were threatened by the cops saying that if we did not leave that they would use grunt force I'm against this.  Thank you. So we will now transition to non-Berlington residents as is our practice and as was part of the motion. So I will go to Jeff Nick. And again, these are people who indicated to you that they were non-Berlington residents or did not answer affirmatively that they were Burlington residents. So Jeff Nick, I will enable your microphone. Good evening. Thank you, Councilor Tracy. I'm Jeff Nick. I'm Chair of the Church Street Marketplace Commission as you know. And I'm here to express my strong support for Acting Chief John Murad. I must say it's heartening to hear so much support for the Chief tonight. During John's 20 months as Acting Chief he has done a tremendous job in the face of both the pandemic and a 30% budget cut which forced Chief Murad to figure out how to run a police department while ensuring public safety on a shoestring budget. The unintended consequence of a 30% budget cut was a swift decline of veteran police officers which I am sure had made the Chief's job more challenging. Now I have heard some city counselors complain about a lack of process which is rather curious to me since there was no process when the council voted to defund the police by 30% and no plan to provide for public safety. The Chief on very short notice made things work. If you decline to support Chief Murad tonight one very real unintended consequence will be the resignation of many more officers which brings me to one of the city council's main goals and that is to enact the 140 plus recommendations set forth in the CNA report. If you lose more veteran officers and quite possibly top lieutenants and an acting Chief it will take years to rebuild the department and the goals and best practices set forth in the CNA report will take years to implement. John Murad has already made efforts to implement these reforms and has shown that he's ready to add more reforms to his list. So please remember that your number one job as city counselors is to ensure public safety. So please for the good of all Burlingtonians vote to support Chief John Murad tonight. Thank you. Thank you. Our next speaker is Kelly Devine. And after Kelly I'll just read off a few more Shannon Tramell, Mark Bouchette, Carol MacGuffin, Ross Brewer. Carol looks like you signed up twice. Tammy and Luke. So I'm gonna go to Kelly Devine now. Kelly, I've enabled your microphone. Thank you, Council President Tracy. As many of you heard our team member Colin Hilliard spoke on behalf of the BVA about an hour ago because I don't have the good fortune to be able to live in Burlington. And so even though I represent over 250 business entities in town because of the new rules, it's difficult for me to share their opinions with the council. And I do think it's important that the council hear from the business community. They're invested in Burlington.  Many of our residents enjoy what t