ething like 50 or 60 languages are spoken in the homes of our students and we some people spoke about kids And I'm glad Pam mentioned Kids who are international adoptions. I also know kids in Arlington who are international adoptions and are also petrified And I've been asking their parents. Am I gonna be sent back? That it's important to send a message to our kids and we send a message as Leaders in the community that that's not going to happen. We also we know of that population We have a vision our minds of what an undocumented Migrant is we think about someone who's Slipping the fence down at the Texan border maybe fleeing across the desert and risking their lives Of course, we turn on the TV now. We see people who are fleeing through the snows of North Dakota fleeing us It's not funny. I It's ironic, but it's not funny But undocumented immigrants they may be legal one day and they're illegal the next much of our population in East Arlington For example, we know we have a lot of graduate students and those families come in for a number of years And it may well be that they finished a graduate study their student visa Maybe has lapsed while they're trying to get a work permit an H1B or something like like that We heard the situation where somebody comes in Illegally, but they're actually seeking refugee status. They're in that kind of limbo place We're not equipped here in Arlington. I think to to Moderate that so I just want to talk about two two more things. I'm sorry I know it's been a long night, but I feel very passionate about this I want to talk about the perceived threat and The action that's before us I Never in my life thought that I would be sitting in a body like this and be worried that my government Would be Presenting me with a threat Playing off immigrant community against the poor those who need housing Those who need special education services because that's that's what the funds federal funding comes from I never thought that we would that we would face that because This action is it's really a declaration of war not just it's on our communities writ whole It's a it's a threat. I want to talk about the action though That we have before us and just reinforce Something a number of people mentioned captain Curran He was wonderful yesterday and one thing that he did he read from Sir Robert Peel's principles of law enforcement from 1829 That guide our community policing philosophy here and our own team and the second principle of Sir Robert Peel was the ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon public approval of Police existence actions behavior and the ability of the police to secure and maintain public respect The purest form of public approval is for our town meeting to be able to stand up and make a statement To stand up and make a statement. This is a non-binding resolution before us and what we're facing is this threat Or we perceive a threat for town meeting expressing its opinion expressing its opinion that's all in support of our police department and by my reading of the Constitution That doesn't fly and I think that if we exceed To that threat for voicing our public approval of our current practices I Have to wonder what the monotony sons of liberty who are lying buried just Shortways away from here how they would judge us So I enthusiastically support the resolution Thank you. Thank you very much I am now going to call for a vote on this motion made by mr. Greeley seconded by mr. Cureau if you're not staying for the rest of the meeting Please leave Safely and quickly and have your conversations out there just to be mindful and respectful of we still do have an awful lot more Business and warrant articles and those people are waiting to have their turn. So Any further discussion or questions if not on a motion by mr. Greeley seconded by mr. Cureau for Cureau for favorable action For article 59 all those in favor say aye those opposed unanimous vote we now Thank you, okay, thank you and thanks for coming out. Thank you. I guess I'll take Okay, if you if everyone please could be respectful we still have a lot more warrant articles and other business to get going So if you could take your conversations outside or you're welcome to stay and observe And I apologize, but we still have probably have another hour or two ahead of us And most of you probably don't God bless you all Madam chair Attorney Heim I'm sorry just just as a reminder on our for folks who are listening what I'm going to do is try to take the comments that have been made by the select men tonight and Marshall them into a Vote we've had some draft resolutions circulated Some competing resolutions. I just want to make sure that I'm assuming correctly that the board is authorizing me to go ahead and continue to work on those to put one in front of All of you at the next votes and comment session Yes, as a matter of fact to that end I'm gonna pass back over at the end of the meeting the eight questions that I wrote down that I got as well as The list of people who signed in I checked off that they did and I added names. Thank you very much madam chair You just pass that down. Okay. We're now going to continue on with our Warren article hearings because correct me if I'm incorrect mr. Chapter Lane the Other three items under traffic rules and orders of really just housekeeping of everybody up in this table We don't have any department head or anything waiting on any of those Okay, we will now go to any Warren article hearing for article 15 again We had extensive conversations on this in January The Human Rights Commission along with the town manager's office and the Board of Selectman's office has sort of been retooling What our possible? Final vote and comment could be and working with the Human Rights Commission and the town manager and the Administrative staff at the Selectman's office. We do have that draft language that has been submitted to us If there's anyone here who would like to speak I'm gonna do the same thing come to the microphone, but we do have the results of You know, we had the extensive hearing in January. We have the results from yesterday. We have the draft language. So Please feel free to come up. Do we have it? Maybe one person from the Human Rights Commission at least that could speak to this Or two we can have two Just again name an address. Yeah. Hi. Good evening. My name is Anna Watson. I live at 200 spring Avenue and I actually really excited to come after this exciting past warrant because this is also a question of How do we how do we welcome each other? How do we? How do we treat our neighbors? So I'm a lesbian. I'm a mom And I've lived in Arlington for over 20 years and I am here to support the establishment I believe the language is the LGBTQIA plus rainbow Commission and I know that's a lot of letters and They stand for lesbian gay Bisexual transgender queer or questioning intersex Asexual and the plus sign reminds us that there are a lot of other identities as well And this alphabet soup It really always indicates to me and reminds me makes me think about how there are many many different kinds of queer people and That we all deserve recognition support community and opportunities to network and create culture so just a little bit about What I've seen living in Arlington as a queer person starting about 12 years ago I began doing some queer community organizing From queer parent family potlucks when my kids were in grade school to helping form one of our area's first middle school gay straight alliances at the oddison middle school and Currently, I am president of an all-volunteer grassroots Organization the mystic LGBTQ plus youth support network or queer mystic and the more out and about I've been in town The better understanding I have that the needs and interests and issues of queer people here are as varied as our alphabet soup Line-up indicates and as a survey of queer adults by the Arlington Human Rights Commission has backed up Coordinating with other organizations and agencies in town has shown me that citizens In Arlington are truly open to creating resource and community for a vibrant part of the population And that's why we have a queer book group at our local library as well as events for queer elders at our council on aging and The time has definitely come for town information and supports to be located in one accessible place and for a commission to be Formed in order that the work that has been done by many volunteers and many colleagues That that isn't lost and that it can continue to grow So as president of queer mystic and as a queer citizen of Arlington, I support the Rainbow Commission. Thank you Hi, I'm bill Gardner. I live at 11 monotony Rocks Drive, and I'm here to support my colleague Also a member of queer mystic I had an opportunity to speak to you earlier and I just want to reiterate a couple of the points that I made to the larger audience First of all, thank you for this amazing experience tonight, I really Can't tell you how proud I am to be living in Arlington based on what I experienced here tonight It was really powerful and what you did as leaders Really really touched me And I hope that you'll also have the same kind of energy and support for our LGBTQ neighbors one of the things that's really important to me as an American is the incredible energy millions of people across our country who are engaged in activism to support the LGBTQ community and They have organized all and every every state in the country and in hundreds of cities and in hundreds of universities Forming organizations and structures, and I think that's what this discussion is about tonight Putting entities in place that can really help to form create an interface between the LGBTQ community and the government and agencies and Citizens groups that are part of it, and I think that's an incredibly powerful thing that's happening and We can look to the many human relations committees that are forming and now the be the emergence of these new groups and There's only like 10 or 12 of them that I can identify around the country that are specifically focused on the LGBTQ community trying to get that out and so Providing that kind of focus and that connection is really important and we have an opportunity here to create that Here in our town and to be in a certain sense a national leader if we were to form it here and I'm impressed that Austin, Texas and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania have just started that discussion in their own towns around doing that as well So I think it's a great opportunity for us I think it's a Significant time for us to put a place together that they can really create that interaction between the community and the Government that we're a part of thank you very much for considering that Okay That's much shorter this time. I wanted to let you know that Just a minute. Oh, sorry Mel Goldstein Human Rights Commission Pursing 20 I wanted to let you know that at the last Human Rights Commission meeting that we had we had a Community member come to us and say I'm really concerned about this executive order rescinding support for transgender students Are our students safe here? And I was so proud to be able to say Last year at town meeting we made sure that our students are supported and safe in our schools And can be themselves when they arrive in the hallways So thank you for that work from last year But I think that that kind of concern and the fact that people don't know what we've already done on shows the need for this kind of Commission to be established so we did vote unanimously at the last Human Rights Commission to support this morning article And I'm gonna skip everything else about this and just say that as a queer person myself. I also support this so thank you Mr. Dunn I would like to move approval I Move favorable action or that we recommend favorable action to town meeting on this move by mr. Dunn seconded by mr. Greeley mr. Dunn I will say that I had one thing that I mentioned to the town council earlier today was that the Potential draft language we includes here it says that it's gonna have a variable number of people And it says that people will serve until their successor is appointed and those two things I don't think work together and so We should either You know recommend to the town council our choice or we should ask him to come up I think with a more elegant solution, but I think that there's the act There's something there that I don't think is we need to tweak before we vote our final language So I don't personally Does anyone have a preference? Why don't we just say what it's either one or the other and Take the less ambiguous, which is what the first thing you said. Well, we can either say that there's a Variable number of people on the committee and so and then we all point to say three-year terms and when your three-year term is up You're done. You're gone and if we don't reappoint you then there's just fewer people in the commission Which is something that we could do or we could say there will be five or people or they will be nine people And then if we fail to appoint somebody that somebody knew then the predecessor continues in their way Mr. Cureau and then mr. Burn of those I would I would tend to just go for a set number Be at five be at nine because I think it's probably a management headache if you're trying to figure out now How many vacancies do we actually have when it's constantly expanding and sure I can I agree with that particularly because we're requiring a quorum for any meetings to conduct business I think that probably having a set number will make it easier for that sake Okay, so we'll vote favorable action with the language that we discussed in the latter with a set number of Do we know if it's five or nine? I think it's I forget. It's good nine. It says it has an up a limit of nine nine members is what's here? Oh, wait What number give us a number I really think nine is too hard to start out with I don't think we're gonna find people right away I was think five or seven. Can we start with five and that's why I think five Yes, we can just come back and ask for more people later Like in two years if the Commission needs more people we just amend it Because of the way we're putting this into a bylaw changing the number will require another vote of town meeting All right, let's do seven Okay, so Can we incorporate that what we just said on a motion by mr. Dunn seconded by mr. Gradually with those amendments for final votes and comments. Is that okay? Thank you madam chair, okay? I'm any further clarifications questions if not all those in favor say aye. All those opposed unanimous vote I'm sorry. I just realized I was using my voice when this auditorium was packed So I'm gonna try to Bring it down a few decibels probably don't even need this anymore now go to article 18 by law amendment appraisals of town property interests Mr. Chapter Lane, what's this list thing? All right when we go back upstairs, we're gonna go back the other way Is there anyone here who wants to speak to warrant article 18, please come up to the microphone? I Think there may be two or three of you according to this list, but it's up to you all name and address for the record Sure, Lisa Reynolds one one ponderous Thank you for considering this article The issue of valuation of town owned real property interests came to our attention when the town disposed of the pleasant view and spring easement and it was article 29 of 2016 and the release of that easement and when we looked at how the easements Were valued we thought that the value should be determined according to commonly accepted real estate appraisal practices We think the town would benefit from establishing the practice that is in accordance with the state best practices and laws Detailed in chapter 36 be it's section 16 of state law So we ask that the board Recommends the new guidelines So that town meeting is presented with the sound value from which to base their vote when disposing of town owned property And real property interests Thank you. Oh, Mr. Dunn. Sorry, so too much miss Reynolds. I'm sorry So if I read correctly you are the original signer and the sponsor that brought this for it Okay, so can you tell me a little bit more like what about the motivation like what is it that you do? Do you perceive something that the town did wrong or do you perceive something that we might do wrong in the future? Can you tell me more about? So some of these and I asked honest It's a very honest question because some of these things that come forward I say, oh, I know exactly what the problem is that they're trying to fix in this case It wasn't clear to me and I'd love to hear it. Did you receive the write-up that we sent to? February 17, mm-hmm get that outlines it somewhat. Yeah, and I mean it's from you Yeah, but could you just encapsulate it especially for people sitting at home when they ask us this exact same question? We can't say well, we'll give you this you like you you're gonna give us the best answer to that yet when the The easement that the town was disposing of was valued We found that the procedures and the formula that they used to value that property was not in keeping with best practices of the real estate appraisal industry as well as state guidelines and So we would recommend that we use Commonly accept a real estate appraisal practices in order to arrive at a fair Value for the property Okay, and my husband could have spoken a little bit more detail probably on it But he had he was not feeling well tonight and only made it about halfway through this meeting. So But thank you Okay stranger name and address for the record. Good evening Michael Ruderman nine Alton Street Madam Chairman members of the board and fellow government policy fans This this warrant article is a Classic sort of good governance article that would make the typical good practices of Our government a little better I can tell you from the last couple of years in town meeting that there was a bit of perplexed discussion when the questions of of selling real property have come before us last two years Questions that I believe a typically present and professional appraisal would have answered and hastened us to to The the discussion of the actual matters at hand not the questions that were prevalent in the hall Which were along the lines of How did we get to this price, you know, is this is this a fair price?  Should we even be selling it? Is it even real estate? I did hear that quite a bit in the question of of an easement for the town to have the privilege of creating a road, which I Assure you is and you know real estate but it would have settled a great many questions to have had an appraisal before us because Not just the the the number or the opinion of value that goes on page one Is found in appraisal, but all the pages that follow it list the appraisers methods and The way that the appraiser came to the professional decision Including whatever special circumstances prevail such as the property being of distressed Condition or of limited utility to anyone except a neighboring property owner these are all fairly typical conditions in the world of real estate appraisal and they could have been the questions of How do we come up with a fair price? the how Questions could have been dispensed with if we had had in our hands and an objective Third-party appraisal to consider then we would have been able to advance the discussion more rapidly to a question Whether it was in the town's interest to to make this sale or not, and that's why I'm a supporter of the article Thank you. Mr. Grilly Can I ask to you madam chair the town manager's position here do you mind commenting on that? May thank you madam chair I Think this this article if the board so choose would be fine to pursue I think it would give us a standardized procedure for handling these Somewhat though they have happened in successive years that the past two years I still think they'd actually be pretty unique situations that wouldn't occur Very frequently so providing a standardized procedure that the that all town officials could use I think could be helpful too Move we recommend favourable action move favorable action by mr. Grilly second by mr. Hero Any further discussion and comments from my colleagues if not an emotion by mr. Yeah Okay, I've been Formulating this one. I think as we draft whatever Language I think I'd like us to talk about whether or not we want to lead frankly leave room for exceptions and I think that we I just want to make I guess I would The draft that I hope what we see doesn't have There are weird property things that you know that like there are deed restrictions and there are things like that that end up being Very difficult and so I have no Seeking the opinion of people is one thing I just want to make sure we don't bind ourselves to something that it ends up being nonsensical in the future journey I I've spoken with miss Reynolds about this a little bit and I think that she's shown me some draft language that Would allow us to proceed in a manner consistent with what folks are talking about not necessarily in terms of whether it would apply or not But how the appraisal how much how binding the appraisal is on us, okay? Is that is that a fair characterization miss Reynolds? Okay, thank you With that all those of favor say aye aye all those opposed unanimous vote We now come to article 19 vote appointment of town treasurer Thank you Thank you Name and address for the record. Thank you madam chair chairwoman Bill Haina 19 Putnam Road And I honestly believe the three-minute rule was put in in anticipation of me coming up Beat you to it I Looking at this article, I can remember I think it was about six years ago a similar article article 53 Pointing the treasurer and at that time the major argument was the fear of electing a person not competent or capable of dealing with it I think right now knowing the way the ballot is going right now. We probably have one of the most capable People going with this so in the manner of keeping it brief. I would ask the The board here to consider no action and Establishing a study committee I'm not opposed to the the whole thing the way I was vehemently the last time but I don't think it's necessary at this time I think a study committee to to look at all aspects of it Might be beneficial. Thank you Mr. Burn Bill, okay How how no please how would you want that study committee to differ from the last study that we did? Well, the the correct me if I'm wrong, but the major emphasis was the DOR report at that time It was dealing with Barnstable. I argued at that point. We are nothing like Barnstable We did not have a corrupt official that they were dealing with at that time going back then We're a totally different entity I Leave it to the board. I just don't think Right now is the time to be looking at an appointed treasurer based on I mean if the board has another Rationale for bringing it forward this time other than the idea the fear of an elected person coming up not capable as I said before I have Disagreed with mr. Common or a lot of issues, but I have never disagreed with his qualification. I know he's standing right behind But at the same time I mean his qualifications or as far as I'm concerned I'm impeccable and it's to the benefit of this town So if there's another reason I'd be happy to not necessarily in this form to hear the rationale For going forward with an appointed, but that was the reason given at that time I haven't heard anything other than that and if I could to that point before we hear from the gentleman behind you Just myself personally When we started down this path Eight years ago eight nine years ago that as I will say respectfully the tale of two audits after we went through all that and it had to be reported and proper Groups came out and spoke to different boards and Commission It was decided upon then because nobody was trying to you know trash and burn or anything like that to Commission And it was then Brian Sullivan. I know I had some role in it because I was very passionate about it, but I wanted just to Stop to go down the road and do the right thing and then so that's why we had DOR come out They came out with their recommendations. This was one or seven or one of ten. I will say as back then I also wanted to take just about all of their recommendations in terms of Town school finance department and having an assistant or a co. I realized recognized That's not what we're doing with this warrant article. We're just taking one of those seven steps or tenets as I call it But I have said in the past and I'll say in the future I'd like to continue on with another recommendation of the DOR report and I think My colleagues here on the board of selectmen as well as my colleagues on the school committee I think that's something it would be a much more productive Conversation regardless of whether anything comes out of it now than it would have been eight or nine years ago so for me Commissioning another study setting up another study group It's you know enough already, you know this started nine years ago And I think for myself personally I've been as respectful and civil in terms of what was put on my plate and and try to Move forward in a positive action and I just want to keep continuing down the road. So Sure, I understand that and I think one of the emphasis at that time And I just come on the school committee at that time was the one point five million dollars and that aspect of it there But as mr. Curie remembers he was still on the school committee One of the aspects of the study and it's not necessarily in this part was Taking over the school finances and stuff and I vehemently opposed that since nineteen ninety three brighter ninety three the school committee literally Mike will manage the whole system since nineteen ninety three We hold three powers hiring the superintendent policy and budget and tantamount to that and I see My fear going down the road with an appointed treasurer may not be in this one at this time But it's the next step going down there is giving up one of those prerogatives at that part We'll save that for another time I guess I asked the board to share with the community the Rationale is it the same and I question that if it isn't the same, please bring it forward Thank you, and we'll look to the then chairman of the board come-town meeting As well as any comments we want to add. Yes. Name and address for the record stranger. Hi Dean Carmen 29 kill safe road I'm gonna take a slightly different tack to mr. Hainer in that I'm gonna ask That you it's kind of what I'm gonna say I'm gonna ask you to vote no action on this but not for the point of Creating a full-blown study committee where we talk about town finances and things like that. I think that's past. I do I think we're um I Think we have an in it. We have a path of an integrated finance department. I think we've studied it three times I think it's time to accept it. I Think what we haven't done is looked Fully at specifically the role of the treasurer because I think in the past it Inherently became a personal discussion in these matters And I think it's important to do that because the treasurer's job is really three jobs. It's the treasurer The collector of taxes in the parking clerk, so I'm gonna stipulate upfront and say there's really no policy involved in collecting taxes It's an implementation job. It's a professional job should be handled as such But the treasurer's job has a lot of policy matters. It has an investment policy It has cash management policy and it's debt policy now We could you can look at it and you can say Many things you can look and you could say well, maybe That should be split into two roles so a treasurer and a collector Maybe you can say it should be a part-time treasurer. Maybe you could say it would be a treasurer Committee of three. I don't I don't know but I think it's sort of odd to go to town meeting and recommend appointing three positions Without knowing exactly what the answer is And I also think there's I would like to say that there isn't a great sense of urgency Involved right now for the spring I'm guessing we're gonna have a fall town meeting I'm gonna guess that whoever's elected treasurer isn't gonna do the job full-time I'm gonna guess that they're gonna have the town manager find a full-time professional person To run the office, which amazingly is allowed to do under The town bylaws there's a section 9 it under the treasurer's laws that allows that to happen and so there isn't this great urgency right now to To try to get the position appointed or get the vote passed at town meeting and wait a full year for the election because I Think a lot of what the a lot of the commonalities that you all want that I think some people Here want can really be achieved through bylaw changes. I mean just like how the Assessors office was you know moved under the town manager through bylaw that wasn't moved under through ballot and And so that's just that's just my thought because I think For for the sake of maybe taking a leap here that between the five of you and the person who may be elected treasurer There's probably not a heck of a lot of difference in thoughts It's just you know stepping back and saying how do we How do we pull this all together in a very detailed level of the various functions of that department. Thank you So do you so Making the treasurer not be elected does have to go to the ballot Yeah, and so do you Think is that something you think we should be doing a year from now like in spring 2018 or By by doing no action now are you thinking we should be doing it in 2019 or Yeah Take a small amount of time to just sort of think about if you just focus for the forget again knock It's all there fine. It's talk about the treasurer's office in particular and just say how does the Functions they are fit into Arlington government and because you know, we have a very I'm just gonna make this up. It's sort of an illustrative example is We have a strong capital planning committee and they along the way if you look at your capital planning book set Bonding they have bonding recommendations now What's really odd about the current framework of the town is that the treasurer isn't actually required to follow the Recommendations of the capital planning committee. I mean if you really think about that it's insane It just is and so maybe we come back and we say And we come back in the fall and we say that the you know The chair of the capital planning committee will be the treasurer for debt matters and whatever comes out of the capital planning committee We do You know and maybe on the investment side We say okay, we have this will formalize what I think is the trust fund commissioners and whoever we have Is our chair of the trust fund commissioners and that that's kind of what I'm saying So I don't I think in some ways you could change the law through bylaws You can ever say I guess damn wait where you could You could have a full-time treasurer. You could have a part-time elect full-time like the treasurer You have a part-time elected treasurer. You could have You can have an appointed treasurer. I mean you could I mean let's just to me. It's just let's figure it out There is I don't think there's this great sense of urgency to just sort of go through the weeds because right now I don't think a strict appointment answers the questions. I just asked Doesn't answer the question. Okay, so if you say the capital planning committee can be Completely ignored by the treasurer. How does this vote fix that? Okay, and of course, you know being on the finance committee for many many years That's a topic. That's near and dear to my heart is you know the capital planning recommendations Come up and maybe they get changed or whatnot and you know And I think that's the same thing when you're looking down the road with schools, you know all these big school projects We're gonna bottom 20 years. We're gonna bottom 30 years You know, how did these kind of work out in the end? That's just my thought is you take some time just sit back Think about the role of the treasurer how it should fit into the larger organization and You know, I would assume Now really fine tuning on timeline, I'm gonna guess we're gonna have a town meeting in the fall We always seem to have one in the fall now. It just seems to be the way it is So we have a town meeting in the fall You guys want to go ahead and appoint it Still hits then it goes on the ballot in April So that would be my suggestion Yeah, I'm not sure this is a question for Dean, but we are we Faced with the issue of we've got to have a parking clerk the day after that election That is not necessarily the treasurer. That's our appointment. As you know, I'm sure Well, I'm just we got to deal with that You know, if you're talking about someone's part time all of a sudden can we gonna apart them appoint them parking clerk probably not Okay, I don't know we have to deal with that It's not automatic As part of the treasurer as you positioned it Thanks I have some pondrances that I want to hear from Paulson 1989 right I Just have a quick comment because I know everybody's a little tired I think there are three basic options regarding article 19 yes, no and a study group or committee of some kind I think the ants the yes option has the real possibility of re-enacting the 2011 town meeting debate There was opinion-based rather than fact-based The no vote solves the problem temporarily, but that doesn't put the issue to rest one way or another I think a study group of private citizens Appears to be the best option identifying the important facts issues and hopefully what is best for the town Rather than a study group of elected appointed or full-time senior managers and And honestly, I think the unfortunate part of the 2011 debate was It wasn't terribly informed, but it was very passionate and it really hardened positions for a number of people and I think with the Emotion that's running in this town as seen tonight regarding the sanctuary Issue I'm afraid that we're gonna have that kind of a debate all over again That's not really gonna get to the heart of the matter And I think it would be in the best interest of the town if we could temporarily postpone The issue to where town meeting has a worthwhile report of an agreed-upon set of facts and issues Pro and con of an appointed versus an elected treasurer and then in 2018 the town meeting then they The town meeting then could make a worthwhile decision Hopefully an informed decision based on fact rather than just opinion. Thank you. Thank you Thank You madam chair and Michael Ruderman precinct nine. I'll Ask you to count me as a no recommendation on the warrant article for two reasons I'll save my typically over impassioned speech for town meeting on my my love of having as many of My representatives in local government Elected and reachable and immediately answerable to to the people they serve But the point I'll make tonight is that We do have a rare opportunity coming up only the second change in Incombency in in the office of treasurer in Arlington since 1972 this gives us a chance to See a new person in action by a new board with present-day Concerns in in front of them all and As my predecessor at the microphone. Mr. Carmen said let's see what happens in the new new treasurer's nascent administration and see if the board can achieve through Dialogue and cooperation with the newly elected treasurer the goals and objectives that it has before most for You see seeing the way the town's finances are carried forward into the future and perhaps through Co-operation these very same goals can be achieved with less of a change to the town Charter then Taking one elected office off the ballot. Thanks Mr. Greeley Well, I really think Dean raised some interesting points, however I'm going to move that we recommend favorable action on this So we will discuss it and have lots of opportunities to do so I think it's been studied quite clearly to me. It has nothing to do with whether people are like to capable I think the last two have been quite capable as treasurers but To me this is about coordinating A financial management as we've started with the board of assessors now Reporting into the manager, but I think we would have great benefit Coordinate, I mean we've seen for years a problem of having different computing systems between Departments and stuff so I think bringing this up to town meeting and people should be allowed to be passionate if they choose to do so Is something we should do and some of these issues will be brought up and discussed so I recommend favorable action Motion by mr. Greeley's Second second and by mr. Dunn Mr. Dunn, so I've I believe that we should have moved towards an appointed treasurer Model and so and I think that the speaker there are a lot of really good points I'll hit and get them in order Bill When I have been a supporter of this in the past it wasn't my statement I would I was very strongly disagree was about competency and it was about effective governance, and I think that part was part of what might have sounded like competency, but it isn't but it is That I think that we can draw from a stronger pool by looking to professionals than by look Then by doing it elected and so which isn't a That's part of it and the second thing is that I think that we can get a lot of we can Perform our finance functions better if we are aligned under a single person and that is and I believe that this position should be Professional as opposed to political which is why I think the town manager and his designees should be the person who drive it We have the up here We have the pleasure slash pain of being the political but we then we but we let the town manager People be professional so that's my so my reason I support it Isn't that I think that we don't get competent treasures or we can't get competent treasures But I think that we can run more efficiently and effectively. That's why I would it's why I supported it then It's why I still support it now Dean interesting and I agree that there are a whole bunch of questions that still need to be settled but I'm okay with pushing forward in trying to in putting this on the ballot in a year from now in 2018 and Working out those questions as we get you know, we still got a lot I understand you're asking for time till September and I think or you know until whenever we have if we have a special town meeting But I'm okay pushing Forward faster because I really think this should happen. And so I don't want to wait around Mr. Ruderman, I'm gonna respectfully disagree. I understand that I understand your argument I think I do about wanting more elected people and I definitely believe that elected people should be Held to you know, you don't like what we're doing then vote us out. I absolutely believe that but this is but I this is again where I think there's a difference between the professional versus the political and The treasure does not have as the town has evolved the political aspects like the That have dropped away and it really is much more about an execution job. And so that's why in this case I respectfully disagree with you And Paul I agree that the last debate was It was it was hard. I really just and but I still think it's the right thing for us to do and I'm just I'm hoping that we can come to this especially because we are at this time of transition where we can be less about personality And that may just be fierce optimism on my heart, but that's where that's ramp. So for all those reasons I'm gonna support Miss Greeley's motion Ditto and I do want to say that It's been a long road and you know, I want to get started. I want to put the shovel break some ground and get moving All the points brought up by the speaker speakers before us I anticipate that will be flushed out as we move along and I think we really need to start this process It's been highlighted where it this is an opportune Time to stop that process as well as further conversations down the road in terms of some staff Changes which is not part of this warrant article But I definitely want to really put something to this especially I would say I'd be a bit concerned But it wouldn't be my final say that if we went through this and we basically took the Elected treasurer and came up with you know, we had two three four five little baby part-time treasures or I Will just say what if I had my druthers right now? I'm looking to define a process where we hire either through an election or through an appointed treasurer One person and then she or he reports to the town manager or whatever I I I can be convinced otherwise, but when I hear sort of convolution, you know Capital planning and the Capital Planning Committee shall have you know, I'll to miss it say on that I'm just thinking of not only getting my head around that and Selling it to the citizens of the town. I think it Really convolutes that particular area even for citizen Involvement in terms of you know, I have this thing where I used to I have a question or a concern or whatever Capital expenditure I used to go to the treasurer for that or whomever But now it could possibly two three four or five part-time people on that kind of put a big question in my mark And for a minute there is thinking of all maybe we shouldn't move forward on this But I'm gonna stick with where we originally started that I think you know We need to We need to start to do this to have the conversation I think from what I'm getting from everybody who were on who were on the pro and con side is that you know, everyone's really Recognizing this is the opportunity for us to do that And I think it would be the best environment for us To actually stop that process and make it effective. So I agree with mr. Dunn and I will be supporting this Mr. Burn yep, so Thank you very much and back in 2012 debate that we had around this I was pretty involved in it and it was one of the first, you know real issues first committees I Was a part of as a member of this board and I Still do believe that there is a need for a professional treasure I Don't know if I'm necessarily Feeling strong enough not to give Perhaps mr. Carmen or whoever the next appointed or next elected treasure is a year to try to implement some of what we heard tonight I think You know having a professional treasure is You know, it sounds like the direction that he's most likely going in I am a little bit Not concerned, but I'd be interested in the coordination Between the town manager's office and the town treasurer's office. I think that it's You know, I think it's clear that that that could be improved and I think moving forward it You know that's certainly a Conversation or many conversations that needs that need to take place You know if we take the time to Until the election happens, I think we can have fairly productive conversations and If we take if we you know kind of fight this tooth and nails from Right now. I think maybe those relationships could possibly fray in those conversations become You know a little bit a little bit more difficult And and so I am I am pretty torn I can see this going both ways right now So I think that you know I Seems like the board is going to be supporting this and I'm looking forward to the town meeting debate, but I think I am going to vote no action and Give Dean the opportunity to kind of work with us and the town staff over the next year I think obviously I've also supported it. I mean I see the same Notifications we get every month from the DOR Bureau of local services and periodically they report on the percentage of of town treasurers have gone to professional positions and I also note that in our Packets here we actually received a memorandum from my mr. Bella for was our elected town treasurer and collector of taxes for 33 years and also supports now moving toward an appointed professional Town treasurer and collector with some caveats around the dolls for scholars Program I have to admit having some pause when mr. Carmen, you know presented Some of these ideas and I'm wondering though if if progress Along that that line is really mutually exclusive from from placing this before town meeting The only question I have is there is a question as to whether or not the town treasurer and collector of taxes Can be addressed as two separate positions and we have we have here in the in the the Some of the draft language we've provided a single ballot question making that the town treasurer and collector of taxes Unappointed position, but I think they they are actually logically to two separate positions if I'm not mistaken Am I off base here? I know we've always treated them as one we've always vested them in a single individual But I believe that they are actually two positions Bigly collector of taxes or two separate positions even though in the past we've lumped them into what we've always vested I think I would say they can be two separate positions as they can be one shared position and as you're stating They're currently treated as one position But they could be certainly treated as separate positions as well And that's why I reckon the reason I ask is I don't know it might be confusing to the electorate But I'm wondering if it were two questions shall the trip town treasurer be an appointed position shall the town That the collector of taxes being appointed position does that leave open options for some of the creative thinking that mr. common is Put out on the floor Or is it just confused matters? I? think that Dunham town council, I think that from the perspective of the ballot question It seems to me that in Arlington the positions were consolidated at some point in time and so You know you're only talking about one position right now in terms of transitioning it from elected to appointed and I'm not sure if I heard mr. I'm not sure I understood everything as well as all the folks here who have been part of this debate for a long time But I think what mr. Common is saying is the treasurer's position that really makes the policy decisions that the vote is Relevant to I don't know if there's a so I don't know that it would achieve much by having two separate ballot questions I'll support the motion. Okay Just please briefly, please we still have so much more I just warn you that if you make them to ballot questions and one passes and one doesn't that could be really embarrassing to the town That's all The last last chop at it. It's 11 Just so everyone's on the same page You guys vote for this Tom meeting approves it No, let me back. Let me speak to simpler. I think Doug can disagree with me but the message is generalize pretty clear that The change from elected to appointed doesn't occur Until the end of the treasurer's term I Just want to point that out because if you're if everybody's thinking here that it hits here 1718 and then it's appointed That's not true Even if it would have you guys were to pass it to me we're passing the citizen who would pass it in 18 It wouldn't take effect till 20 Okay, and a motion by mr. Greerly seconded by mr. Dunn any further questions or comments if not all those in favor say aye I was opposed four to one Next article 20 vote email accounts for members of public bodies I don't see the proponent mr. Loretty here and I believe move no action move no action by mr. Greerly seconded by Mr. But I would like to point out again mr. Loretty who sponsors a warrant article Does not choose to participate in the process and be here at the hearing, but it's unnecessary. We've already done this move no action Okay on a motion by mr. Greerly of no action seconded by mr. Carrow all those in favor say aye all those opposed unanimous vote we go to article 60 resolution supporting state and federal legislation That promotes greater transparency and political donations and limits the influence of money in politics Hi, my name is Elizabeth Kwaski. I'm at 60 Pleasant Street Thank you for the late night This resolution isn't nearly as flashy as the sanctuary city one But I think it is still important what I would like is for the town of Arlington to adopt a non-binding resolution in support of the American anti-corruption Act This is a statewide or this is a part of a nationwide non-partisan effort Starting at the local level in order to reduce the influence influence of big money in politics I'm motivated by an organization called represent dot us this long-term goal and the long-term goal of this Organization is to gain enough popular support To pass this type of legislation on the state level and we're using the initial process to do so and Eventually, we'd like to pass it on the federal level. That's a big goal, but we're starting small. We're starting locally Now I'm not trying to say that Arlington has any sort of corruption problems Or that we have big money in our politics But by passing this non-binding resolution, we would show support for the statewide legislation that we're hoping to get done Similar legislation was passed recently in South Dakota This anti-corruption Act has several parts to it That aim to stop conflicts of interest and political bribery provide transparency for political donations and Fixed elections through measures like redistricting to prevent gerrymandering and to provide public funds for campaigns a Government should serve its people But lobbying groups and large political donations have circumvented that purpose and I have a bunch of research That shows this and I just want to cite one study in 2014 professors at Princeton and Northwestern Published results from a study that looked at more than 20 years of data to answer a very simple question Does the government represent the people and their study took data from nearly 2,000 public opinion surveys and compared it to policies that ended up becoming law in other words They compared what the public wanted to what the government actually did and what they found was that the opinions of 90% of Americans have essentially no impact at all Conversely, they found that the opinions of big money interests Do have a substantial impact for that and I do have a source for that that study So is it possible to completely remove the influence of money in politics? not likely But the anti-corruption Act is a good step towards better accountability there and this resolution will be a small step in order to help support that Mr. Burn I have a question where in the resolution it talks about preventing lobbyists from donating to politicians and Then but what do you say even though that those donations are Transparent and recorded through the Secretary of State site. So it seems like that I don't know if it Just might not really fit into the other themes that you know this Resolution is hitting on right. There's a lot of components this resolution and if you look at the anti-corruption Act There's a lot of components of that because it's trying to cover a fair amount of bases on that. I Don't really know how to state one way or the other on Just a question. I've you know, I do work in government affairs for quasi-state agency or we're not actually quasi-state agency but the Metropolitan Area Planning Council and You know, but and while we you know, I don't really think I make many donations I you know feel like this might be targeting, you know, a certain group here And I don't know if I'm really comfortable putting my name on this tonight Mr. Dunn so I In general, I really think that town meeting is best focused on on local issues And you know, I will say obviously Tonight was the exception that proved the rule because I really do strongly believe in the sanctuary town, but It is it's fairly It's fairly frequent for Groups of citizens like yourself are passionate about things which I I'm glad I just don't think the town meeting is Is the right venue? So I'm gonna move we recommend no action and I'm not gonna and it's not About the content. It's supposed so much as about the the relevancy and I don't think because I Yeah Motion of no action by mr. Dunn seconded by second Mr. Burn. Mr. Carol. Thank you And I'm sorry to hear it to this late hour But I do kind of Echo this I think the you probably heard some of the hesitation on the part of the moderator at the beginning of this evening about Resolutions he actually handles them in a specific way because There's a reason for that because the town meeting members That this town meeting has held the record for the longest town meeting going 15 16 17 nights something something like that To the point where We had difficulty actually even recruiting people to run with vacancies all over the town So there's been a lot of efforts to try to to try to slim down the the town meeting This is one of unfortunately. This is one of one of the ways The sanctuary town resolution related directly to a local policy matter But as far as statements on national or or state legislation, I Think what we've done in the past or done in the past is Offered during the announcement section of one of the time every every night at Tom meeting it begins with announcement Time any resident of the town is permitted to get up and speak for a limited I think it's three minutes for announcements To speak speak to the entire body of the town meeting and what's been done in the past is proponents for these resolutions You know, I'm happy to introduce you or I'm sure one of my colleagues would be happy to introduce you So that you could get up before the town meeting and invite All-town meeting members who will wish to to to sign on there's always a break in the in the middle And there's always at the beginning the only other thing I'll say is that I discussed this today with Representative garbally and he's more than willing also to meet with you about that the legislation to try to You know learn more about it and and you know potentially, you know assist you in forwarding it at the state level So I think those are a couple of the things that we could help you and if you need that introduction also to our delegation I think we all have good relations with with all three members of our state delegations as well And we're happy to help make those introductions as well Okay, we have a motion by mr. Dunn seconded by mr. Burn any further discussion comments if not all those in favor say aye Hi, all those opposed unanimous vote. Thank you. Thank you saying so late We do still have three more items on the agenda, but let's see final votes and comments. Is there a motion move approval second so I Town council was tasked with either doing the really incredible amount of work You didn't prepare him for the sanctuary town article or prepare final votes and comments And I told them to prepare the sanctuary town matters. So those are not prepared for the board tonight. Okay, so All right, so moved to the table by mr. Grayley seconded by Second mr. Don all those in favor say aye Those opposed unanimous vote will now go to agenda item 15 endorsement of Purple Heart Community designation our town manager, mr Chapter Lane. Thank you madam chair This is simply I'm looking for a go-ahead from the board Jeff Chung low our veteran service officer in the veterans council Took a vote to request that this board designate Arlington as an honorary Purple Heart community And also that we then designate Mass Ave as our honorary Purple Heart Avenue If the board was so inclined to endorse that We would have a proclamation drafted and have signs made up that would be placed on Mass Ave Double-sided signs nearby both the central and Highland fire stations that would designate Mass Ave As an honorary Purple Heart Avenue didn't want to go through drafting the proclamation or creating the signs if the board didn't Like the idea if you do we'll come back at a future meeting this spring and have an official ceremony for such designation Motion to improve endorsement of Purple Heart moved by mr. Burn seconded by mr. Kiro any further discussion and comments if not on a motion by mr. Burn seconded by mr. Kiro all those in favor say aye aye all those opposed unanimous vote the next Request for a board designee and I'm gonna let the manager explain Exactly what this would be and I Will be unable to do this I have spoken with mr. Grilly Who I believe Is willing to accept this but mr. Chapter Lane if you could thank you not at the meetings tonight Incentive Thank You madam chair as the board knows it issued an RFP for the disposition of 1207 Mass Ave The town has received one proposal and after review by myself town council and direct the director of planning and community development We have found that one proposal to be Responsive in meeting the minimum quality criteria But the RFP did require both myself and a designee of the board to review and score that proposal before making a final Recommendation to the board so tonight. I'm asking for that board designee We will review and score the proposal and bring back a final recommendation to the board at an upcoming meeting So our motion are Can I point mr. Grilly or someone okay? I'd like to move by mr. Dunn seconded by mr. Currow any further discussion if not all those in favor say aye aye those opposed unanimous vote We now come to agenda item 17 mr. Grilly. Yes. Thank you madam chair first of all We all send our love and hopes out to Mariek Rappelka Who has gone through I think it's our 37th surgery or something but We we hope she's back as soon as possible, but it has come to We we have not really Established a process for a time like this. Marie's been out for a couple of weeks and will probably be for a couple more weeks so What I'd like to move is that? We set a policy going forward that we empower the chair in situations such as this to a name in this case Marianne Sullivan as as the acting administrator and Also Fran as the acting office manager and To you madam chair to also work with Adam and figure out the compensation Motion by mr. Grilly is there a second second I have a burn come as well And it's just that perhaps we should update the select bin's manual to reflect that I Was waiting for the vote on that but as soon as we approve that Is there are there any questions comments mr. Dunn I think it's a great idea. I think it's Jumping ahead to mr. Greeley's favorite to the handbook I think you should we should make sure that it includes notification of the rest of the board and town manager But yeah, yeah Okay, and a motion by mr. Greeley seconded by mr. Burn all those in favor say aye Those opposed unanimous vote correspondence received motion to receive by Mr. Burn is there a second second Mr. Cureau any comments questions From my colleagues if not on a motion by mr. Burn seconded by mr. Cure all those in favor say aye All those opposed unanimous vote Move we just been new business so moved Unless there's something does anybody is anybody burning what does that with a necessity? Okay, so with that I will take a motion to adjourn by move to adjourn really seconded by second mr. Cure all those in favor say aye


You can only set a goal according to your present level of understanding and knowledge, isn't it? You think you've reached a point where you know everything in the universe? So if you set a goal, what kind of goal will you set? A very meager goal, I would tell the young people, don't set a goal. If you have absolute devotion to what you're doing right now, depending upon the times and the opportunities, we will go as far as we go. But if you're always concerned about the finish line, if you get to the goal, you will be disappointed. If you don't get there, you will be broken. Most successful people on the planet, how many of them are joyfully driving their BMW? Only those who are absolutely devoted to what they're doing, they have done significant things on this planet and that's what you must do. Sadhguru, all of us sitting in this hall have some goals. And as most of us are students, our goals are at the maximum level. We would like to know, we are very eager to know, when you were of our age, what it… what was that thing which you wanted to become? What was your goal? This is beginning like an interrogation. Well, frankly I had no goal of any kind. To such a point that my father used to, what will this boy do? He's not interested in anything. But it was completely wrong because I was interested in so many things. I was not interested in the things that he was interested. I was absolutely interested in many, many things. See, when we say goals, we must understand this. From where you are, if you set a goal for your life, you can only set a goal according to your present level of understanding and knowledge, isn't it? You think you have reached a point where you know everything in the universe? So if you set a goal, what kind of goal will you set? A very meager goal. And if you grow rapidly, you will be terribly disappointed with your own goal. But this has been taught to you in the recent years that you must be goal-oriented. If you… let's say you want mangoes in your house. If you want mangoes, you don't have to think of mangoes. You have to think of soil, you have to think of manure, you have to think of water, you have to think of sunlight. None of them look or taste like mangoes. But if you take care of those things, mangoes will come. But suppose you have a strong desire for mango, but you did nothing about growing a mango tree in your home, you will want to steal it from him if he has. Yes or no? So if you have goals, you… what you're calling as goals is just your desires. And your desires are just an outcome of the kind of thought process that you have right now. The kind of thought process that you have right now is only dependent upon the sort of data that you have collected right now. In twenty years' time of life, what kind of data do you believe you have gathered to set a goal for life? Not necessary? So this is something that I'm bringing about recently. Every year we have this business, we have a business event in the month of November. Many business leaders come, all the top business leaders have been there. Two hundred CEOs come every year to train with us for four days. So last year one of them was asking me, who's running a major multinational company, Sadhguru, we pick the best from the IITs and IIMs and we keep paying them more and more and they keep asking for more and more. But when I look at your organization, you pay nothing to any of them and it seems to function many times better than our corporation. What is the secret? I said, see this is all it is. We are devoted to the process. We are not concerned about the goal. We are absolutely devoted to the process. Because our devotion to the process of what we're doing right now, if you do not do what you're doing right now well, your goal is just going to be a fancy desire, isn't it? Hello? Yes or no? Hello? Your goal is going to be just a fanciful desire that you've made up in your mind and that is not even yours. Your goals are all borrowed from ten other people. Whatever is the trend today, that is your goal, isn't it? I would tell the young people, don't set a goal. If you have absolute devotion to what you're doing right now, depending upon the times and the opportunities, we will go as far as we go.  If you get to the goal, you will be disappointed. If you don't get there, you will be broken. Most successful people on the planet. I want you to just look at it, don't... don't just go by what I say. Just go on the street and watch people leave the people who are driving a boulevard and this and that. Just watch those people who are driving BMWs, Mercedes and whatever else, okay? Successful people. Just carefully watch them. How many of them are joyfully driving their BMW? Hello? How many of them are joyfully driving their dream car that they worked for? You will see hardly anybody, hardly anybody unless it's a stolen car.  Those who could not get there are broken and frustrated. What's the point of a life like this? Your ability to do things is enhanced only when you're absolutely, absolutely devoted to the process in which you're involved. I'm using the word devotion intentionally because people think devotion means going to the temple. You tell me, in any field, any arena of life, sport, art, music, politics, spirituality, you name it, whatever you want, academics. Has anybody reached any significant levels of achievement without being devoted to what they're doing? Hello? Has anybody reached mediocre things they've done? Only those who are absolutely devoted to what they're doing, they have done significant things on this planet and that's what you must do. Satguru, so as you told us that goals, those who achieve the goals are in that happy and those who don't have… I thought I'll just scare you a little bit. And those who don't have goals are also not happy. But goals are the starting point. But a lot… No, no, no, please let me correct this. Is goal a starting point or a finishing line, please? Which is it? It's both ways. How is that? How is goal a starting point? Is goal a finishing line or a starting point, please? Please you must tell me. All of you. Is goal a starting line or a finishing line? But like if goal is something that motivates us to… Like once we think of a goal in mind. You're coming to the point now.  Circus monkeys are like this. If you want them to do a trick, you have to give them a sweet. Otherwise, I won't do it. One more little sweet.  I thought we evolved out of being monkeys long time ago. Hello? So you are only working. What will I get? What will I get? What will I get?  You'll die one day, that's all. You think you're going to get something in the end?  The question is only how beautiful and significant and intense of a life that you lived, that's all there is. What will you get in the end? Goal is the end point, isn't it? What do you think you'll get at the end of your life? I want you to visit all these homes, hospices, where people are reaching the end of their life. Just look at them and see what do you think they've gotten? Nothing. Either they lived a profound life or they did not. That's all there is.


And now, Roma Wines, R-O-M-A, made in California for enjoyment throughout the world. Roma Wines, present. Suspense. Tonight, Roma Wines bring you Mr. Vincent Price and Mr. Lloyd Nolan as stars of Hunting Trip. A suspense play produced, edited and directed for Roma Wines by William Spear. Suspense. Radio's outstanding theatre of thrills is presented for your enjoyment by Roma Wines. That's R-O-M-A. Roma Wines, those excellent California wines that can add so much pleasantness to the way you live. To your happiness in entertaining guests. To your enjoyment of everyday meals. Yes, right now a glassful would be very pleasant, as Roma Wines bring you Lloyd Nolan and Vincent Price in a remarkable tale of... Suspense. It began with just a little hunting trip for the two of us, Eric and me. I hadn't seen Eric for several months, not since before Karen died, in fact. When I bumped into him at the club, he suggested that we run up to his cabin in the mountains for a few days. Grab a bit of fresh air and relaxation, see if we couldn't bag ourselves a moose or a deer. And yet, almost at the outset, I had an uncanny feeling about that trip. I suppose actually it was the night and the setting. It was the blackest night I'd ever seen. We'd left all humankind behind us, there was no moon, there was only blackness, the kind that seemed to be all enveloping, as though there was nothing outside our car, but blackness, no road, no forest, no mountains. Now let admit I was nervous, I was boring my feet into the floorboard of the cars, though somehow that would help. What are you laughing at? You, Stan, you don't look as though you're having a very good time. Well, I'm not, right? Frankly, shouldn't you be driving a little bit slower? Why? Why, good heavens, Eric, if you make just one little slip of the wheel, we're done for that, so all I doubt if they'd ever even find us down in those canyons. Nonsense. I know every crook and turn in this road. I don't think you're much of an outdoorsman, Stan. Well, maybe not. I love this kind of country in the daytime, but I'll confess I'm not so keen on it at night. I don't like what I can't see. Funny, I'm just the opposite. There's, well, there's a challenge in the darkness that stimulates my senses. It's exhilarating. It stirs my imagination. Sure, I suppose it would, but I'm not equipped to grapple with the mysteries of the universe. Stan, you're much too modest. You always were. You've gotten out of life pretty much what you wanted, haven't you? Well, yes, I suppose so. Then don't always be belittling yourself. It's an effective technique, Stan, but I'm on to you. You're as clever as the next fellow in your own way. I sat back and tried to relax. Things weren't quite as Eric had pictured them. I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, as they say. Eric had come up the hard way. I was average and soft. He was brilliant and hard. We'd known each other a long time, going to school together, being in love with the same girl, Karen. When I married her, he was my best man, and yet I didn't pretend to understand him. He was still pretty much of a stranger to me. I glanced over his weight. He actually seemed to be enjoying himself. It crossed my mind that he was rather enjoying seeing me in a bit of a lather too. Well, it's not far now, just around the next bend. Well, thank the Lord. Well, am I amusing you again? No. I was just thinking what a perfect spot this would be for a murder. A murder? Honestly, Eric, I believe that's all you think about. It is almost. When I buy a newspaper, I read about murder the way you study the stock quotations. Murder is fascinating to me.  Now you're trying to sound like a metal case. Who knows? Perhaps I am. I have a mind. Well, here we are, old man. You see, I've delivered you safe and sound, all in one piece. Eric's cabin was perched high on a rocky crag jutting out from the side of a mountain with one more flush against a sheer drop. In front there was a steep path leading down to a lake. I could hear the lapping of the waves. Eric fixed us something to eat and then went outside. Pretty soon he came back in. I'm full of logs. His face was red and healthy. I don't think you like my place, Stan. Oh, yes, I do. Honestly, I'm just tired, I guess. Well, we'll turn in directly. Oh, thanks. Cigarette? Yes, thanks. I believe I will. I like it here. All the privacy in the world. Say, Eric. Yes? Why do you read about murder? Why do you read about stocks and bonds? Well, because they interest me. It's my business. My business doesn't interest me. I read about murder because I'm interested in people. Murder is emotional. When people are being emotional, you get to see more of them. Why are you so interested in people? Oh, I think I'm more curious than interested. Hello, all right. Why so curious? It amuses me. I find out about people. I write down what I find out and I write my impressions of how those people will react to a series of circumstances. It's a good way to get rid of one's inhibitions. Sort of a frightening hobby. I think stamp collecting is frightening. You're too darn clever, Eric. Why, too clever? Well, I mean you see through people. What's wrong with that? Unless, of course, they have something they want to hide. I suppose it's all right. If your friends don't mind. Do you? Mind? No. Heavens, no. Why should I? That's right. Why should you? Well, how about hitting the hay? We have to be up early. We'll only get a few hours sleep as it is. This is me. You sleep in my study, Stan. The bed's in there. It's a bit more comfortable. I'll bunk out here on the couch. I had undressed and gotten into bed and was reaching over to put out the light on Eric's desk when my eyes fell on a stack of typewritten sheets. I wondered if they were the notes Eric had been speaking about. The strange mumbo jumbo he'd written there, phrases he liked, single sentences describing people he'd met. There were a few clippings pasted on sheets of white paper, clippings describing murders, by strangulation, by pistol, by drowning, by poison. A full sheet was devoted to Karen. I hadn't realized how much he cared for. His analysis was very kind, almost mortland. He spoke of his shock at hearing of a suicide. He tried to reason it to find causes. Small memo pad caught my eye, however. And on the last page, I saw my name carefully printed. I read it eagerly. I read Eric's arguments for not hating me because I had married Karen. I read Eric's cold analysis of my character. It's not exactly flattering, but it was pretty accurate. And at the bottom of the page, newly written by the looks of it, and in Eric's own careful hand, I read, Four ways to commit murder. By strangulation, by pistol bullet, by drowning, by poison. For Suspense, Roma Wines are bringing you Vincent Price and Lloyd Nolan in Hunting Trip. By Paul Bernard and Lee Horton. Roma Wines' presentation tonight in Radio's Outstanding Theatre of Thrill's Suspense. Between the acts of suspense, this is Ken Niles for Grand Estate Wines. Last night, a friend who entertains frequently told me how much he likes Grand Estate Wines. Those wines of outstanding excellence presented by Roma, America's greatest vintner. Here's what he said. Recently, Ken, I served Grand Estate Wines to some very particular guests, people who really know wine. Their sincere praise for that wonderful fragrance and taste was certainly flattering to me as a host. Grand Estate Wines are outstanding. Yes, to bring you this limited bottling of Grand Estate Wines, Roma selected only the choicest juice-laden grapes from California's Finest Vineyards. Then, at Roma's famed wineries, unmatched in winemaking resources, Grand Estate Wines are patiently, skillfully guided to perfection. Necessary time and the age-old skill of Roma master-vintners endow each Grand Estate Wine with brilliant clarity, full fragrance, and mellow taste. So, whatever the occasion, you're sure to please all tastes with Grand Estate California Wines. Medium sherry, ruby port and golden muscatel for delightful entertaining, Grand Estate Burgundy and so turn for gracious dining. Remember the name. Grand Estate Wines by Roma, the crowning achievement of vintner skill. And now, Roma wines bring back to our Hollywood soundstage. Lloyd Nolan as Stan and Vincent Price as Eric in Hunting Trip. A tale well calculated to keep you in suspense. I suppose I slept that night but it seemed as though I had only just dozed off when I heard the door open quietly. I opened when I cautiously, it was still gray in the room so I know I hadn't slept long. I was about to open both eyes to save Eric the trouble of waking me when I thought he hasn't come to wake me. My mind threw two words at me by strangulation. Before I had the chance to move, I felt his hands carefully on my throats. Don't! Why, Stan, what's the matter? I thought for a minute that... Yes? I guess I must have been dreaming, nightmare.  Oh, did I? What's the matter? Have you got a guilty conscience? Yeah. Yeah, I guess I have. What did you want, Eric? Time to get up. Oh, already? Yeah, that's right. I've got good news, too. I just spotted a lightly-looking buck right across the lake when I went down for water. Oh, good. Good. Well, I'll get breakfast going as soon as you're ready. Yeah, be right with you. Now, there's no rush. Take your time. Nice to have you, heroes. Well, maybe it was the way that he'd said that as though he'd really met it. For a minute I was convinced that I'd let my imagination run away with me. And as for putting his hand on my throat, that was an accident. He'd been groping for my shoulder. Then the next minute I was asking myself, was it an accident, though? Suppose I'd really been asleep. Suppose I hadn't grabbed his hands. I still didn't know what to think. Now, I dressed and we sat down to breakfast.  I'll give you some coffee. There you are. Thanks. Sugar coming up. No, no sugar for me, thanks. Well, Stan, when are you going to confess? What do you mean, confess? Or shall I drag it out of you? What are you driving at? Oh, come now. You're not going to play the adolescent schoolboy with me. I swear, I don't... I'm referring to the lovely young woman you've been seen dining with and taking to the theater.  Is that her name? Yeah, yeah. Well, go on. Where did you meet her? How? When? Is she wealthy? Is she as beautiful as they say she is? Come on, let's have the sorted details. No, Eric, you're barking up the wrong tree. Am I? Oh, I'll admit, I've taken her out occasionally, but it's nothing like that. Martian, do I know her? No, I don't believe you do. Isn't her last name Jenkins? Yes. Oh, of course I know her. That is, I met her.  Oh, did I? Yes, don't you remember I ran into you at Silver's. You were buying perfume and she was helping you select it for Karen, remember? Oh, yes, yes. Now that you recall it. More coffee? Yeah, no sugar. Well, when we got to the lake, we bailed out the boat, loaded it and pushed it out into the fog. It was still half light when we reached the other side, so we sat in the boat and lighted cigarettes, waited for the sun to come up. We'd been sitting there just smoking, not saying anything, when he suddenly turned to me and said... You say that she'd been ill. Oh, Karen, yes, yes, she'd been ill for some time, Eric. So she killed herself? Yes. There was an inquest, of course. Yes, of course. Why do you ask? Look at that sun. Did you ever see such color?  I'd almost forgotten about Eric's hands on my throat. Now the incident jumped vividly back to my mind because now I knew that Eric had a reason. He looked away after he asked me about the inquest. He didn't answer me when I asked him why he wanted to know. Somewhere in that strange, dark corner of his mind, he was still obsessed by love for Karen, even though she was dead and gone. He thought that she'd still be alive and happy if she hadn't married me. My legs were weak when he motioned me out of the boat. The deer blew somewhere near us. We stopped. Hey, did you hear that? Yeah. Listen. It's moving west. Yeah. Stan, you work west just about half a mile or so ahead of us. You'll come to a clearing. Take your stand there. Right. I'll strike north and west and then work toward the clearing. Good hunting. This is it, then, I thought. He'll hide somewhere along the way to the clearing and shoot me in the back. Now that I knew what to expect, I felt somewhat relieved. At least I'd be ready for him. Nothing happened until I'd nearly reached the clearing. And then I got the feeling that someone was walking with me, timing his steps with mine. I stopped and listened. I don't know how long I stood there. My rifle gripped in my hands. But suddenly, instinctively, I wheeled around. A shot whistled over my head and I saw a buck running across the clearing. He'd shot at me and missed. Well, two can play at that game, I thought. The next shot would be mine. I wouldn't miss. I dropped on my knees, watching the brush for him. Then all of a sudden, I saw him running toward me, right out in the open. I started to raise my rifle, but I couldn't. I couldn't kill a man that way in cold blood. Stan, Stan, did I hit you? I can't find you. Now hold on a minute, old son. Let's not lose our heads. I'm terribly sorry, of course, but I had no idea you were to take stand in the clearing, so I naturally assumed you were there. I don't know what I can say. Well, maybe it was my fault. I don't know. Anyway, let's forget it. But I said let's skip it. Stuck close to Eric after that, I gave no more opportunity for a shooting accident. It was dusk when we heard it headed back toward the cabin. We didn't get our buck, not that I cared, and I'm sure Eric didn't. He was after a different game. Then I saw a boat on the beach. Here we were alone. I couldn't refuse to get in the boat with him. There was no other way of getting back to the cabin. I could feel the perspiration trickling down my ribs. I stumbled in the underbrush. Easy, easy now. It's too bad we didn't bag that fella. Oh, right? That buck. Better luck tomorrow, maybe. Yeah, better luck tomorrow. You seem preoccupied, Stan. Do I? Yes, I have the ghastly feeling that I'm failing you as a host. I don't think you're having a very good time. I think this is a marvelous country, Eric. You've exercised phenomenal restraint, old son. What do you mean? About expressing your admiration for it. I'd never have suspected that you liked it so much. That remark called for some sort of an answer, but I wasn't equal to it. Fortunately, I was spared the necessity. We reached the lake and the boat, then. We tossed our guns into it. Eric started to push out from the shore. Hop in, Stan. Easy does it now. Hang on to the oars, will you, while I climb in? Uh-oh. All set? All set. Splendid.  I know this lake. There's some treacherous spots in it. What do you mean?  Some of them that aren't easy to spot. Come too close to the surface for comfort. I see. We were to hit one of them. We'd turn over in a hurry. You don't swim, do you, Stan? You know Don well I don't. Oh, that's a shame. It's a mistake not to learn to swim, don't you think? I happened after that was a nightmare. He rode. I sat there, paralyzed. I couldn't move. I couldn't think. I knew I should do something, but what? I stared at the water till I was blind looking for rocks. Eric's face was a blur. He just smiled, rode, rode and talked. His voice sounded hollow and unreal. You're shaking, Stan. Is something wrong? This lake's plenty deep. Lots of fish in it too. Maybe we can do a little fishing. He stopped suddenly. He'd seen something in the water. He turned around, pulled hard on the oars. We'd reached the spot he knew it. And then... When he came up, Eric was there in the water near me. He didn't speak. He just grinned. And then I saw his face above mine, grinning. Some raised his face to strike me in. And that's the last I remember. He came too. I was lying on the beach. And... Eric was standing over me, smiling. Hello. How are you feeling? I... Okay, I guess.   I'm sorry. No, don't try to talk now. You've had a pretty bad time. Take it easy. Who's all clear to me then?  He'd have been accidental. The shot, the boat turning over. He didn't want to kill me.  What had all been my imagination? A nightmare. Oh, the relief that flowed through my body was almost too much for me. I had to tell her on words to express how I felt. A little later, Eric helped me up to my cabin. And I stretched out in the couch. Eric went to the kitchen to fix hot coffee and soup. He brought the coffee and first pulled up the coffee table close to me. Poured us each out a cup full. There you are. Get some of that into you and you'll feel different. Oh, thanks. I'll be back in a second. Soup coming right up. Do you like to cook? Huh? I said, do you like to cook?  Well, I like to try different concoctions. Oh, not me. I'd starve to death if I had to cook for myself. Oh, man. This coffee hits the spot. Ah, I can use a little of that, too. It sure does warm the innards, doesn't it? Mm-hmm. I got a little chilled. Nothing like a cup of coffee, I always say. That's what I always say, too, Stan. I didn't. I say something funny when I'm using you again. Immensely. In fact, Stan, I think that's probably the funniest thing you ever said. How did you like it, Stan?  You read it, of course. Well, you... Yes, I... I couldn't... I couldn't tell you had, just as I intended you to. Were you frightened all day today? I don't understand. You didn't know, did you, that I came to your engagement party to ask Karen to be my wife. I wasn't aware that you were throwing a party or that she had accepted you. Good lord. Perhaps you don't remember what I told you that night. You thought I was joking, but I meant every word I said that I'd make you pay if you failed Karen if you made her unhappy. Well, then all these years you would...  You're so right, Stan. But you pulled me out of the lake.   Don't you know me better than that?  Oh, no, Stan. But you did take a shot at me. Oh, yes. That was the second way. The first way was by waking you up by the throat this morning. The boat tipping over was the third way. And now I suppose we've reached the fourth way. Your brilliance positively staggers me. You can't get away with it, Eric. Oh, yes I can. I have. You see how intently I'm watching you? I'm waiting to see you fall.  What do you mean? In the coffee stand. That's right. Your coffee's poisoned, just as you poisoned her coffee.  But I take justice, don't you think? You poisoned my coffee? Yes, I wore down your guard. I planned it so that by now you would trust me. You would have faith in me. You poisoned my coffee? What? What? I didn't drink my coffee, Eric. I changed cups with you. There was sugar in my cup, Eric. I don't take sugar in my cup, Eric. So I changed cups with you. I didn't mean to do it, Eric, but... I don't like sugar in my cup, Eric. So you see, I didn't kill Eric, really. He killed himself accidentally, but I wish he had killed me. He had a good reason to. Because somehow he knew about Karen. About how I killed Karen. By putting poison in her coffee that morning. And I watched her die. The same way that I watched Eric die. I'm tired now. I don't want to talk anymore. You do whatever you want with me. Suspense. Presented by Roma Wines. Made in California for enjoyment throughout the world. And now our two distinguished stars, Lloyd Nolan and Vincent Price, are returning for a curtain call with William Spear, our producer-director of suspense. Mr. Spear is carrying two large gift baskets of Grand Estate California wines. Lloyd and Vincent, and Vincent and Lloyd, just to keep the billing straight. We want you each to have a basket of these Grand Estate wines with our compliments for a thrilling performance. Thank you, Bill. This is quite a selection. Certainly is my thanks, too, Bill. Well, there must be a Grand Estate wine for every occasion here. I guess there is, isn't there, Ken? Well, there is indeed, Bill. Even my favorite, Grand Estate Medium Sherry. A truly versatile wine, Grand Estate Medium Sherry is delicious as an aperitif before dinner. Delightful for afternoon or evening parties, too. And, of course, like all Grand Estate wines by Roma, Medium Sherry possesses the brilliant clarity, full fragrance and mellow taste that distinguish truly great wines. Sounds wonderful. Yes, Mr. Nolan, and you can be sure that any Grand Estate wine you serve represents the ultimate in wine goodness, the crowning achievement of Vintner's skill. That's why Grand Estate wines presented by Roma, the greatest name in wine, are the choice of discriminating wine users everywhere. Well put, Ken. Vincent, what's new one startling over on the 20th Century Fox lot? Well, they're pretty excited about Darryl Xanik's film version of Mom's The Razor's Edge, which has just finished up shooting. And I guess the picture that they like best among the current releases is Claudie and David. You're on Walnut just now, away from the homeland, aren't you, Vincent? That's right, Bill. And Lloyd is, too. Yes, yes, sir. I will be in a couple of weeks. Right now, I'm just loafing, grab a little fishing, took a hunting trip up north. Took a hunting trip with me, would you like? No, thanks. I had plenty of that tonight on Suspense. Oh, Bill, who's on the show next Thursday? It's Dane Clark in a suspense play about a gunsel, a professional murderer who doesn't know he has any emotions, until he finds himself falling in love with the wife of a man he's killed. Sounds wonderful. We'll be listening, eh, Lloyd? Oh, yes, your thing. Well, then if you two will relieve me of these baskets of Grand Estate wines before my arms give way, there's a loud credit. Thanks again, Bill. Good night. Next Thursday, same time, listen to Dane Clark on Suspense. Presented by Roma Wine Company of Fresno, California. This is CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting System.