Okay, so Council has seen this before, before NHGRI or any instituted NIH can publish a funding opportunity announcement. We need concept clearance or approval from the Council. So you're going to hear five presentations today. One at a time, there'll be a discussion, question and answer session with Council and then I will ask for a vote to approve the concept. So Tina Gatlin, Program Director in Genome Sciences is going to lead off with the great program concept. Tina, go ahead. Okay. Thanks, Rudy. So I'm pleased to have this opportunity to address Council today to present this concept, the genome research experiences to attract talented undergraduates into the genomics field to promote diversity. And so this great program concept is for consideration as another path forward in our efforts to enhance the diversity of the genomics workforce. And as a follow on to Vence's presentation, I would like to say that it was a privilege to contribute to the important work of the Diversity Working Group and I'd like to thank Vence for his fine leadership which led to the release of our Action Agenda. So this concept was originally formulated last summer and was further refined by a group of my colleagues. And so I would like to start by acknowledging Lisa, Brianna, Lourgetta and Jen for their help in shaping this concept. So regarding concepts to champion a diverse genomics workforce, so as Eric mentioned in his director's report, we have already moved forward with two initiatives that were approved at last Council, so an F99K00, pre-doctor, post-doct transition award as well as a K18, which is a short-term career enhancement award for faculty members. And so we follow on by bringing to this Council two more concepts, this great program and then also the grants for new investigators to promote diversity. And then for next May, Council and beyond, we do anticipate bringing forward future concepts stemming from the Action Agenda. For the outline of my presentation, so I'll first take the goal of the concept, provide some background and our rationale for moving this idea forward, present the general scope and objectives, and then go over how this concept relates to ongoing activities, and then open the floor to Council discussion. And as Rudy mentioned, then he would then ask Council for a vote on the concept. So for this proposed great program, the overarching goal is to encourage undergraduates from underrepresented backgrounds who are enrolled at diversity-serving institutions to pursue further training and careers in genomics research that are within NHGRI mission areas. This will be achieved by providing students research educational activities and within the structure of institutional partnerships. And as background as Ben's described already, so NHGRI recently published an Action Agenda detailing the Institute's vision for building and championing a diverse workforce. This proposed program addresses elements of all four goal areas of the Action Agenda in terms of developing programs, facilitating inclusion and retention, developing evaluation metrics, but especially addresses, as Ben's mentioned, the second goal, which is to develop and support training programs and networks that connect undergraduate and graduate education to careers in genomics. And then in particular, via sub-goal 2.2 in the document to ensure that undergraduate diversity-serving institutions are aware of and tightly connected to that network. So diversity-serving institutions are defined here as institutions of higher education that have a historical mission or dedicated commitment to educating individuals from diverse backgrounds. So institutes such as HBCUs and Hispanic-serving schools. And so I'll say a little more about our focus on diversity-serving institutes on a later slide. So the data shows that under-representation in the health-related sciences includes individuals from certain racial and ethnic groups, as well as individuals with disabilities or from disadvantaged backgrounds, and then women at the faculty level. And as such, NIH leadership encourages institutes within NIH to continue efforts to diversify their respective research workforces. And the largest category of under-representation are certain racial and ethnic groups. And so this is a category that can be used as a good proxy for under-representation. And so the data shows that racial and ethnic minorities constitute about 34 percent of the U.S. population, yet they comprise only 10 percent of students who are enrolled in genetics or genomics graduate programs in the U.S., according to NSF data. And then in our own internal analysis, a large fraction of the grad students that NHGRI supports via the T32 institutional training grant, and in the past decade, only 14 percent of T32-supported graduate students were from under-represented racial and ethnic groups. So this is slightly better than the 10 percent from NSF data, but it's still drastically lower than the national population. So these statistics highlight the need to strengthen the pathway from undergraduate to graduate school for under-represented groups. So for scope and objectives, again, the overall focus is to help diversify the genomic workforce, and research educational support will be provided to undergraduates who are enrolled at institutions that have a historical mission to educate under-represented students. The program will provide resources for institutions to establish partnerships in order to implement collaborative approaches to genome research education. The partnership must include a lead or applicant institution that is a diversity-serving institution, and then one or more partnership institutions, which must be a research-intensive institution with a suitable research base in genomics for graduate-level training, as evidenced by a significant number of potential mentors with R01 or equivalent extramural research support. So I would like to say more about why NHGRI is interested in this kind of partnership model. So first of all, this is a space that NHGRI and most high Cs have not ventured into before, and one of the recommendations stemming from an ACD report on diversity in the biomedical research workforce was to support creative partnerships between research-intensive institutions and diversity-serving institutions, which are also often under-resourced. So partnerships are an effort to help level the playing field between low and high resource institutions, leveling the playing field, being language we often hear from diversity-focused offices at NIH, particularly the NIH Office of Scientific Workforce Diversity. And there is evidence that shows that for students, talent is not evenly distributed, but opportunity is not. This is due to structural racism and so on, which results in underrepresented students often being underprivileged, and that they have unequal access to education, resources, and experiences compared to their well-represented counterparts. This is why we want the diversity-serving institution to serve as the lead, to provide them more direct access to resources, and this will also give them greater authority to shape and direct the educational partnership. This reasoning is in line with language from the diversity action agenda in which attention in the form of guidance and resources must go to where the students are concentrated, as this may better lead them to and through graduate genomics training programs. So applicants will be expected to develop a two-year genomic research education program, where students will be supported part-time during the academic year and full-time in the summer to conduct genomics research with participating faculty. The research experiences should take place at the research-intensive institution. However, the research at the diversity-serving institution is also encouraged if the research projects and the environmental will align with NHGRI's mission. So research experiences have been shown to increase student performance and retention, in addition to providing valuable preparation for graduate school. However, of equal importance, the program must be complemented by other educational activities, such as courses, boot camps, seminars, lab meetings, career and professional development, and these activities should be conducted at both the applicant and the partnership institutions to maximize impact of the program. Also, students will be eligible for the program if they've already completed two academic years of post-secondary education. Applicants are expected to propose an outstanding mentoring plan, which should include a minimum of students being assigned a mentor at each collaborating institute. And applicants must also propose effective monitoring and evaluation plans, not only to assess the student outcomes, but to assess the effectiveness of the individual mentors as well. And the evaluation should also include an assessment of whether the overall program and its environments are considered to be effective, inclusive, safe, and supportive. So with regard to assessment student outcomes, this is to be determined by the awardees. However, measurable outcomes should include, for example, the number of students matriculating through their research education program, and then those then admitted to graduate programs in STEM or a genomics-related field. Other career outcomes and do they stay engaged in research-related profession, and then also documenting any presentations, publications, and awards. And awardees will be required to track student outcomes once students leave the program. And NHGRI will implement a long-term tracking procedure so as to conduct overall evaluation of the great program. So this program is modeled after other NIH R25 undergraduate diversity programs, including the Blueprint Endure program, the former BD2K program, which ended in 2020, and the NIHHS UP program. So the Endure and the BD2K program, they're similar to this great program in that both are institutional partnerships involving collaboration between a research-intensive and diversity-serving institution. The BD2K program had the further requirement like ours to have the diversity-serving institution act as the lead. And for the NIHHS UP program, institutional partnerships are not required, but they are encouraged, and the great program does have closer alignment to the programmatic structure of this program compared to the others. And then this R25 great program, it's similar to NHGRI's long-standing R25 DAP program, diversity action plan in that both are diversity research education programs focused at the undergraduate career level. The DAP program does support two other career levels and largely recruits individuals to their research-intensive institutions for a summer or academic research experience, whereas the great program would be a partnership program recruiting a cohort of individuals from within the applicant diversity-serving institution. The programs in this sense complement and enhance the opportunities of underrepresented students based on career-level institution type and educational activities offered. And then lastly this great program will encourage collaborations with universities that have an NHGRI funded T32 program. A couple of our DAP programs that do have a T32 at the same university do collaborate in this way with T32 graduate students getting involved in educational and peer mentoring activities and this has proven to be beneficial. So for mechanism of support and funds anticipated we are requesting RFA set-aside funds. Applications would be limited to 350k direct costs per year. We would utilize the R25 mechanism which is set at 8% indirects. We are considering to fund about three new awards a year for three years and with a with a project period for up to five years. And then the total projected investment for nine awards would be 17 million. So I would like to now shift to council discussion. Some of the items we would particularly like your input on include the partnership idea and our definition of eligible institutions. Thoughts on the two-year requirement of the educational program and then thoughts on the size and scope of the program. So we do feel that this is a modest investment so does it seem like an appropriate level to start with? And then any other points to consider? So three council members took a closer look at this concept. So Drs Rafa Erezari, Wendy Chung and Lisa Parker. And so we asked that these three kick off the discussion. So maybe Rafa do you want to start out? Sure. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay so I think that the general proposal is I really don't have any specific comments are the ones that we discussed earlier which I saw you incorporate it. Some of them. But the comment I want to make relates to my main recommendation which is it relates to trying to improve trying to use data to improve how these programs work. So just quoting from the from one of the papers that the NHGRI has published the field of genomics is affected by the same problematic lack of diversity that plagues and hampers the U.S. research and clinical workforce. And for the past decades the federal government university other non-profit organizations have spent millions probably billions of dollars trying to improve these situations. Since 2001 NHGRI has prioritized funding programs that increase the number of genomic strange researchers from this diverse group. But despite these efforts the genomic research force has seen limited growth in the number of independent researchers from underrepresented backgrounds. So I was encouraged to see that this proposal attempts to attract students at an earlier career stage than previous efforts. So that's that's a change because my first thought was so how is this different from all these other efforts that have we've invested in but haven't really delivered in terms of overall trends and statistics. That I'm optimistic that this particular idea of starting earlier has a potential of improving on previous attempts and the idea of joining institutions as you propose which will give you a much larger pool to to to attract to attract from. So my main recommendation is somewhat specific is that our DSB required to carefully define success metrics and that these metrics are not restricted to short-term goals such as getting into grad school like you've already hinted at that that we have we may get improvements there but then later they they go away. And the data is collected to help determine what parts of these programs work and which don't. So I think we have to start using data to make these decisions about what to fund. Of course we haven't really collected much so that'll happen later but if we require these programs to do it that might be helpful in the future and data collection and in these areas I think I've observed that often it reveals that well-intentioned ideas that sound promising actually have no effect or even have negative effects very surprisingly. So that's why I'm highly recommending that we start doing more of this. It could also I should also say that that analyzing data and looking at what works and what doesn't might inspire new ideas that haven't really been tried out up to now. So I was I was encouraged to hear that you've been using focus groups so that's one way to collect data but I would again also encourage you to have our these also think of the long term of helping NHER long term by by in a way running experiments if you want to call it that or natural experiments to see what works and what doesn't. Thank you for your comments Ratha. So Lisa Parker's hand is up why don't we go to her next. Thank you. So this I'm very enthusiastic about this opportunity. I had four specific points I wanted to raise. One is that the concept document that we read made reference to and you did in your talk as well of the applicant institutions taking the lead having the flexibility to determine the optimal configuration but also having responsibility for the conduct and oversight of the award which on the one hand I think is quite appropriate but on the other hand if these are somewhat less experienced institutions lacking the infrastructure that their partner institution would have that may be off-putting and so that perhaps some provision for mentorship in this regard of the grantsmanship and grants administration or a plan for a mentoring relationship between the partnering and applicant institution would be a welcome amendment or opportunity. Secondly I would hope that there was a provision this this follows up on the previous or complements the previous comment as well that there's an opportunity and maybe metrics development maybe not metrics but that some record is kept of how capacity is developed at the applicant institutions so that this is not the the success of this initiative is not measured solely in terms of the success of the individuals who are educated through the program but the capacity that's developed at the applicant institutions and what that would look like and what success it meets and so ideally there could be some follow-on evaluation of the pipeline developed even after the period of this particular program and both of those thoughts are motivated by my concern that applicant institutions the diversity serving institutions not get an infusion of interest and funds and maybe equipment or activity in general and then somewhat be left to their own devices but that there is a real investment and and a true development of partnership between the institutions partnering but ideally also with NHGRI. A third quick point I recognize that LC education and research pipeline is an option under this concept and wonder whether when a reference is made to the review and assessment of progressive scientific skill sets as a metric whether applicant institutions in particular would recognize that that applies to the development of the skill sets of doing social science research or even philosophical and humanities research and legal research in this area so that being sure that the opportunity for LC research and maybe even a combination of LC and scientific genomic research be encouraged in part because we might imagine and I think have some data to suggest that attention to the LC issues is a way in for many of individuals from underserved groups or diversity serving institutions to be interested in and attracted to genomics and then finally throughout the the term used is undergraduates and undergraduates having two years of experience and so on I wonder whether the experience for post baccalaureate students is also available or continue on following undergraduate graduation even if it the program has begun for an individual during college because that seems also to be a crucial time particularly perhaps for those students who are served by these institutions to bridge them forward into a graduate program and to enhance their applications and so forth with additional education and so having a provision so that people who are graduating seniors or who come to this a little late in their undergraduate career that they don't get left behind when they may in fact be very promising participants in the program. Thanks. All right so to respond to some of your your comments maybe going in reverse order so with regard to post baccalaureate so we really wanted to just focus on the undergraduate career level for this concept we do have the our existing DAP program which does support the post baccalaureate level so that would be kind of a more appropriate program to sponsor that career and I appreciate your points about LC we can make sure we have kind of stronger language when we get to writing the FOA to ensure that LC is definitely a part of this this program and then with regard to you know helping the lead you know organization in terms of the application process and grant writing so you know you know we can we can start with the usual tools right you know the availability of the program officer posting FAQs a pre-application webinar which we often do for programs we'll certainly do that for this one we could think about in that webinar just you know emphasizing extending it and adding some more like grant you know the grant writing process or you know we can we can like think to develop a separate grant writing process webinar we can also point them to you know there's other NIH grant writing workshops and resources that are available and then with regard to and also you know we do have experience with helping investigators who are less familiar with the NIH system not just pre-application but post-war you know especially through our through our H3 Africa efforts so I don't know Jen if you're on if you maybe want to comment through your experience with H3 Africa yeah and I definitely want to say we appreciate the the sort of challenges that institutions that are less familiar with NIH processes and procedures will face and and sort of being prepared to address those well in advance of when applications are due again we do have that experience of sort of bringing institutions along and our grant management branch also has given webinars and seminars about the the technicalities of applications and making sure you have your DUNS numbers and all that so I think that's all good points and also I really appreciate your point about the mentoring role that the the more experienced institution would have because you're right we do want this to be something where there's now a long-term ability for these institutions to be active members of our research community. Sharon? Actually how about if we take comments from Wendy and then come back to Sharon? Okay so I'll just emphasize a couple other points that Rafa and Lisa said. So number one is it drives me nuts as scientists that we don't use data more and so I guess what drives me nuts is that across training programs really it's not just this one but that we don't have systems in place and metrics that we standardize and agree upon to be able to see the return on our investment and I just strongly encourage us to be data driven as we're doing this. The second as Lisa said what I've seen as some of the most productive things come out of this is not only the trainees but as was said the relationships between institutions that actually disseminate and build long-term relationships and even relationships to the communities that are served and so it spreads really successful programs I've seen spread beyond just the trainees. And then the one other point that I want to make is that it is hard sometimes for these institutions and one of the things that I've seen successful is that once the grants are awarded to be able to have some collaborative networking opportunities amongst the leadership in those programs both post award to be able to understand how to manage those grants and also to share resources and in the zoom land space that we're in I've seen many of those training programs even have for instance online zoom that might be shared across institutions but then individual breakout sessions where they can have discussions and talk with their mentors and it just is able to disseminate a lot more information and best practices and best resources that are developed by these programs with a little less pain to the program so anyway I'm very very supportive of this I think it's a great great idea and great program and I think we should do more of this. Well one thing that we do do as you know Wendy is that we do have an annual training and career development meeting where we bring all of our DAP and T32 trainees and PIs together for an annual meeting to network and so we could have that as kind of a minimum in terms of getting this program cohesive. And Tina I think that's great but just as an example through our cancer centers we even do that type of thing but we have weekly meetings believe it or not so you can even do more than that. Yes okay I see Sharon and then Hal go ahead Sharon. Yeah just a couple of practical things as someone who's who's a T32 PI which is that it just says two years. Normally especially for undergraduates you know they may decide this isn't for them and I think you need and you also could have a junior who really has sort of blossomed that you would love to give a year or two. So I would try to build a little bit more flexibility so you don't have people like not thinking they have that they're able to really appoint the best person. Also I think it helps undergraduates to say you know at the end of the first year you have to write up a report and give a plan for your second year of funding and that it's not automatic but you know that you need a plan so I think something like that. The other thing is I would think creatively about what are the obstacles for students applying. Applying to graduate school costs money. Luckily the GREs are sort of disappearing but not for all fields so also thinking about whether any of the funding could actually go into actually supporting application process of the of the trainees to graduate school or other appropriate schools some kind of grant to the student themselves I think could also be a big push not push but remove an obstacle that they might have. Thank you for that. Okay we've got Hal, then Jonathan, then Howard. Go ahead Hal. So just to expand briefly on a few points that have been made one program that I've seen do this particularly well is the Sarnoff Foundation which creates a mentoring network for life. You know once you've been awarded a fellowship you are you know into inside a network that allows you to tap into expertise at every point along your career. The other thing the Sarnoff Foundation does that I think works particularly well is to require people who have been awarded fellowships to then commit to a mentoring relationship with you know years of young people who are coming up in the Sarnoff funding network so you know that requirement of having the people who have been through the program and benefited from it to then share their experience through mentorship really has proven very powerful and I think it's something that should be considered for this program. Yeah we would we would be encouraging like near peer mentoring. Jonathan. Okay a comment what I hope is a very simple question so my comment is that in your presentation you indicated that the partnering institution if they had a T32 and NHG or IT32 that that would be an encouraged thing I think I totally get the advantage or the simplicity of potentially having the students matriculate into that institution or whatever but it seems to me that it might be a little bit limiting to other institutions that haven't had the opportunity to have an NHG or IT32. They might not be considered quite at the same level in terms of looking for partnerships or being part of being a partnership so I'm not sure that I would you know state that explicitly it's it's clearly going to be an advantage the reviewers are going to see that as an advantage anyway so I'm not sure that you do want to limit that. My question is how many students do you think would get appointed on each one of these grants how many students would get supported on these grants. Well we kind of set it at 350k direct costs and then just based on looking at other our 25 educational programs that are out there we were estimating it would support around 10 undergraduates but it's going to vary quite a bit in terms of you know the programmatic structure that is set up. Howard go ahead. Tina this is a very promising concept and so thank you for sharing this. So this particular program is aimed at a diversity-serving institution and partnering them with a higher education research institution so my comment is about the opportunity to expand that to also for-profit institutions because as we all know a lot of genomics research and science has been practiced at many companies and these often these institutions are actually running internship programs just clearly an interest in that way and that might maybe actually potentially allow you to increase the bandwidth of the program either in this version or in a future version. Yeah so well at least for the applicant institution we definitely want that to be a higher education institution but for partnerships we would be open to having companies for-profits and nonprofits serving as a partner. Other questions? Lan go ahead. Is the eight percent indirect like barrier for eligibility for anyone or is that easily absorbed? So I'm not quite understanding your question so the R25 mechanism is set at eight percent indirects does that answer your question? Well I'm just saying if an institute needs complete cost recovery or doesn't have the ability to cover whatever else overhead is needed does that prevent certain people from applying? Yeah I'm not sure and then in terms of you know we'll also kind of set like how much administrative cost they can they can incorporate into their applications and considering it's a partnership we would definitely be kind of allowing a you know like a higher administrative cost than we normally do. Isn't that an NIH rule the eight percent? Yes but I'm just curious like if you want eligibility and people can't apply that's a barrier. Yeah well I'm talking about in the direct cost in terms of what what the maximum allowed administrative cost would be allowed on the grant versus like you know costs going to the to the trainees themselves. So I think Lan this is Caroline just following up on your point I mean it is a it is a limitation of the mechanism and it carries across NIH for lots of different training mechanisms. One of the things we've talked about internally is we see this as a three you know we have three receipt dates so we're not and so one of the things we may see in the first round is are there barriers or issues that come up in doing this and then can we have creative ways to address those barriers? So I don't think we can do a lot of flexibility around this but if we start to find that coming up as something that's a barrier to the program that is something we would then have to see if there's some creative options we could look at. Is that? Yeah no that sounds good I mean the R-25s have existed so you shouldn't reinvent the wheel either like if you network and just ask the question who's not being allowed to apply that would be good to know. Thank you. It's a good point thank you. Can I ask council how important co-localization in terms of geographic localization how important that is between the two partnering institutions? If the student is expected to maintain research progress during the school year it's and the research is going on at the research intensive institution it seems like it's kind of obligatory that they be very closely physically associated. Thank you Hal. Olga did you want to comment or did you have another question? No I want to comment on that same point I would say that it depends I think you know we've had a pretty active program at Princeton just you know with some of the colleges down south in Florida and it's worked great and we had you know they're in the summer here but you can imagine for example especially if it's a computational experimental project they might do experiments at the research intensive institution in the summer then they go back and they either continue some very specific protocols or they can do the computation and analysis back in their institution. I would be as broad as possible with this and really work on the support on all the issues that have been raised not issues but challenges that have been raised rather than make location-based restrictions. Yeah so with regard to geographical constraint and I mean during the academic year because there's also a time constraint on the students as well so it could be in the summer times like Olga was saying that there's the more the focus on the research experiences in any boot camps and then again you know the the important element of this program is also those other educational activities right and so that could be more of the focus like during the academic year right you know where they can participate and you know just other activities like attending seminars, attending the mentors lab meetings and taking any courses and any professional and career development activities. Lisa did you have a comment? I did. Given that some of these students will be inexperienced historically inexperienced maybe within their their own families and social circle with travel with going to another institution with different geographic areas this may be a possibility I think having a broad possibility for geographic partnership would actually be advantageous for some of them also if this truly is to be open to to LC researchers there as well as for some of the other you know computational research and so on as well as whatever happens during COVID if we have shown that we can do a lot with long distance I would say try to keep it as open as possible geographically for a variety of for that variety of reasons. Olga another comment. Sir just a quick question I may have missed it Tina but is there some plan like if a minority institution is trying to apply for this and they don't have a partner institution in mind would the NHGRI be able to I mean maybe not match make but at least make some suggestions of contacts they could pursue? Yeah that's true they can they can contact the program officer who would probably be me and I can make suggestions and you know point to our website where we have listed out all of our T32 programs for one example. Hal? If that's the case is it necessary that a diversity serving institution partner with only one research intensive institution or could it? Oh no open definitely to more than one you know there's you know the endure program there's plenty of examples where there's multiple partners that are involved in this program so definitely. Okay last call for questions I don't see any more hands up all right can I get a motion to approve the concept? In a second? Second. All in favor I'm going to ask you to hold your hands up for five four three two one thank you any opposed or abstaining great thank you thank you Tino. Thank you.


The Jazz finally remembered their tanking and Ben Simmons falls out in the most Ben Simmons way possible. It's time to run it back. Good morning. Happy Tuesday to everyone. And we're just going to get right into it because there are a lot of games, but I want to introduce, of course, my friends this morning, Stadium Insider Shamsherani adjoining us. How about co-host of the Etc. Podcast with Kevin Durant. Eddie Gonzalez and just fresh off of his honeymoon, Chandler Parsons is back. Chandler, how was it? Was it fabulous? It looked fabulous. Yeah, it was a really, really good time. Really good place. And now, and now you're here with us for a little while at least in your home. honeymoon part two right now. Yeah, exactly. What a great way to look at it. Shams, that's so nice. Thank you. Yeah, we got, we have a lot of games to talk about last night and the first one, let's just spend about four hours talking about Grizzlies and that's was just, I don't know, insanity is probably a good way to describe it. Four players, first time in regulation ever in the history of the NBA with 35 or more points and John Morant, Desmond Bain, Kyrie and Katie. And Shams, we'll start with you.  I think honestly, what Kevin Durant said after the game, like John Morant, every night you watch and play, it's, I really wonder if you played in LA or New York, what the dialogue would be around John Morant on a daily basis. He's in Memphis and we talk about him to a pretty high extreme. I just wonder if he was in a bigger market, what it would be like. But I think what he's doing right now, he's to me an early season candidate for MVP for sure. It's very, very early right now, but he's a guy that you can already tell is going to be prime as long as he stays healthy to have that type of season. Kevin Durant after the game, mentioned him in the same breath as God, like Derek Rose and Russell Westbrook. I think he's very unique. His three point shot, like he crossed up Kyrie and had a step back three, like some of the stuff that he's doing is literally a video game modeled player. So I'm honestly astonished sometimes is watching him play. And we saw four amazing performances last night, him, Desmond Bain and on the other side, Kyrie and Kevin Durant. I think it was definitely a very, very fun game. Not much defense being played though. No, no, 134, 124, Memphis win, Chandler. What do you have to, I mean your take on Jaws, what watching him play? Yeah, I think like we, we hit it on the head. The guy has must see TV, right? He's so entertaining, so explosive. Like Sam said, he's hitting jumpers. He's hitting crazy shots. He's getting out in the break. He's getting everyone involved. He's making players look really good that probably aren't as good without him. He's special, but my biggest takeaway is the Nets, man. If I'm the Nets, I got to be discouraged because I have those two assassins on my team and still not enough. You know, I don't like they're starting lineup with Clarkson, O'Neill and Simmons with those two guys because they're basically just rolling the ball out to those two guys and telling them to go get buckets. Their offense is very stagnant. It's very one on one. It's very iso. It's pretty easy to guard when you're not guarding two of the five, three of the five guys on the court. So like you said, their defense is pretty bad giving up that many points, giving up 38 points to Desmond Bang. He's a great player, but that's a lot. I'm discouraged if I'm them. So I feel like this is what you see is what you get. And if I'm them, I am, I gotta find ways to get Joe, to get Curry, to get Patty Mills healthy and more involved because they definitely need more shooting around those two stars. Eddie, what happened? Look, I'm with Chandler. I mean, I can't explain how upset I was watching the Grizzlies just get to drive left over and over again in crunch time. They are clearly left hand dominant with the way they play and they just kept doing it. It was a runway. I think Kevin and Shams are right about Joe and his marketability. It's a reason why he's the next Nike signature athlete. And I think he's going to do really well in that role as well. It was a fun game, but it was a frustrating game as well. We're going to talk about Vince Simmons. I'm sure the fouls he got, all of that. Coming into the season, I thought the Nets could be a really strong defensive team. I still think they can. But when you watch games like last night, the Bane points is a great point by Chandler too because they're losing him on really basic actions. Just simple pin down screens. They're not calling out communications to switch to jump out there. That guy has a rifle. We know he has a rifle.  He just won the three point contest last year.  And he kept losing him, kept losing him to the point of 38 points. It's way too much just like Chandler said. So we, so we agree Bane is good. He's not 38 points good. I mean, yeah, as a player going into that game, it's almost okay to give up 38 to job, right? He's the star, but you got to limit the other guys. You got to limit their best shooters open threes. Their defenses was just very lazy and they were giving up things that I know in their film session, they were going over to not give up. I think that's what would be the most concerning part for me is Bane's a great player, not even hating on him. The guy's unbelievable. He's made a huge jump, but you can't give up to him. You're 40 to him as well as they're not going to win many games doing that.  Do you want to just jump into this Ben Simmons foul moment where he falls out of the game? Like what, just someone take me through what I'm watching here. I've watched it with sound. I've watched it without sound. I've watched Joss sort of just play around with him. It's like a cat in a ball of yarn. And then what am I watching here guys? And why did it happen the way it did? First of all, this was brilliant by Joss and the Grizzlies. They did this for a few minutes down the stretch. They probably killed an entire minute of the clock doing this. There's a point in the clip earlier. If we had panned out, you can see Steve Nash like upset. Well, what is this? Either he doesn't know the rule or he was frustrated that they're letting it happen. But yeah, when you're up, you can let the ball roll.  And then Ben just got anxious. I don't know what he was doing. Joss said after the game, it's a play that's happened before. I'm not even giving Ben enough credit to say he remembers that from four years ago. I think he just, like he just got antsy and he wanted, he thought he was going to get the cheap steal. And I didn't think it was a foul. Me myself, I'm not calling that at the gym, but they called it and it worked. He touched them. He did it. So it was, it was fresh. Again, going back to what Chandler said, it was just a frustrating watch if you're rooting for the Nets. Yeah, this isn't like a new brilliant thing. I think you see more guys doing it. But like, if you're up and the clock is ticking, that clock is still going. So you don't have to touch your balls. So I think defenses now needs to start getting used to, you know, playing up and picking up 94 feet, not allowing them to do that. But this play also with five fouls, just kind of a bonehead play. You see Joss kind of look away. And I think Ben thought he could kind of sneak in there, obviously, but, and then I agree with Eddie. I don't think it was a foul, but that's just, you know, kind of bonehead play at that point in the game. You can't do that. I mean, Shams, we got Ben Simmons, three games. I think it's 17 points and 14 fouls. What is the plan? How does he fit in here? Yeah.  Like he's averaging two made field goals a game. He's averaging almost four turnovers and almost five fouls a game. They're one and two. You know, shout out stat moves for that stat. But I think overall, when the Nets came into the season, they had very, very high expectations to prevent Simmons. What I heard a lot is that this guy's going to be our engine. He's going to be our motor for this team. You know what you're going to get out of Kevin Durant. You know what you're going to get out of Kyrie Irving. They're trying to get Joe Harrison, Seth Curry back into game shape. But he's a guy that had a strong summer by all accounts. And they were putting a lot of hope on him. And I think there's still enough time this season. There's still time for him to figure it out. But there's a lot of expectation on him. And if he, if this is really how he looks, this team is not going to be very good. Chandler, what do you do with Ben? I mean, if you're in charge of this, what's the plan here? I mean, look, you're stuck with him now. So I agree. I think you try and find ways to make him successful in that offense. I think you have to surround him with shooters. You got to get Patty more in the mix. You got to get Joe in the mix. You got to get Curry healthy. You almost got to just play Ben as a five. He's very similar to Westbrook. Kelly's playing right now. You know, you can tell he's playing timid. He's turning down shots. They're guarding him so offensive that he's going to have to start being more confident and, you know, getting to the pain, getting into the hoop. I don't want to see himself or jumpers either because he cannot shoot. But like the way they're guarding him is almost getting in his, you can see it like it's, it's almost pissing him off and more offensive than pressuring him. So it's tough. But I just, I think you put him at the fives surrounding with shooters, let those two guys rock and just try and find success with it. But it's him and Russ are feeling like they're in the same boat right now of all this pressure. Everyone's talking about him. Every headline's bad. They can't shoot. And it's clearly getting to both of them. Yeah, it's tough for Ben. He was engaged yesterday. He was into the game. He attempted a couple of shots. I think there's a three-pointer. He was trying to get active on defense.  But it's, you know, you wonder if he's being put in the best situation that thrives, similar to Russ. And it's not stopping anytime soon for the Nets. They play the Bucks tomorrow. They're back to back with the Mavericks and, you know, you're one and four. Then what? Then what is the story for the season? And then, yes, they play a couple games of the paces, but the schedule picks right back up. They have a West Coast trip coming up. They have a ton of games on the road in November. This could go left really quick. And the shoe could fall. And, you know, I think the first, you know, the first scapegoat would probably be Steve Nash. And he's been real defensive about Ben. Say, hey, we're taking it slow with him. He's getting back in the rhythm on and on and on. And, you know, we're going to find out a lot about this team in the next month. They, you know, they beat the Bucks in Mavericks. We're having a whole conversation when we get back on the show next Monday. But if they lose and then we're walking back and they're one in five, who knows? You know how this goes quick? And this whole franchise was on the hot seat all summer and it didn't cool off at all. So it's just going to get worse and worse if they keep losing games. I mean, there's a lot of patience being demanded here. And at some point that runs out, I think for even the most patient amongst us, as far as this Grizzlies team, because I don't want to take anything away from them. They're sitting there at three and one. They look legit. I thought they ended last season a fun team to watch and a team with a lot of potential shams. Are we looking at a team that has a shot at being a contender for everything? I think they do. I think they were to an extent last year, but you know that they didn't really have it and what it takes. But I think this year, they just look different. I think one more year of confidence, what they did last year, being one of the best teams in the West, they got to the second round, gave the Warriors a real fight, especially considering the fact that John Morant was hurt and missed, you know, the second half of that series. But I think with him, he just looks different this year. He's moving with a different level of confidence, which is scary to say. And I think this team is going to be even better once they get back to Aaron Jackson, Jr. And this team gets fully healthy. I mean, look, the good news for the Nets is they're not the only team with high expectations that are off to a slow start. Another team, Miami Heat, same conference, starting off at one in three, losing in Toronto last night. Shams, your first take on that, your insight on this game and what's wrong with this heat team right now? I think a couple of things. One, I really look at their rotations. They've already changed up a lot of what they've done the last couple of years. Tyler heroes now in the starting lineup. They're playing without Victor Oladipo. He's last year was in and out of the lineup. So I think rotations is one issue. And then another issue is just they're missing that one enforcer guy that they either start or come off the bench. Last year, they had PJ Tucker. In years past, they had Jay Crowder. Like they always had a guy that they can rely upon, Marky Morris on their bench. They have Udoniz Haslam there, but Udoniz Haslam does not play right now. So having a guy that can have that role with Jimmy Butler and Kyle Lowry and Bam Adebayo, they're really missing that. I think you're really starting to feel the loss of PJ Tucker right now as well. Chandler, I've heard a lot of people say there's something wrong, not just obviously with the record. We see the record. We see the numbers, but it seems when watching them that there's something off with this team. Are you seeing the same thing? Yeah, for sure. I think Shams hit it. I think it's their depth, their bench isn't given them much. And now with Tyler Hero in the starting lineup, that takes away from the depth of their team off the bench. And he was that spark plug coming off. And now he's starting. So he just kind of shrunk their depth there. And Kyle Lowry doesn't really look the same to me. He had a tough shooting night last night. But yeah, I think, and the biggest thing for them, I think everybody in the East got so much better this off season. And they're kind of the same team. And they don't have that wing depth. They don't have that J Crowder anymore off the bench, the PJ Tucker. They need someone like that to relieve those pressures. And they just don't have it. So I think a lot of teams made a lot of moves this off season to take that next step and the heat are kind of that same team, which, by the way, still can be very good with the roster they have. I think, and I think they will figure it out. But yeah, this is a real issue with the wing depth, I think. Yeah, we're talking about a team that was a shot away from the finals last year. Jimmy Butler makes that three. Who knows what we're looking at? They're probably not beating the Warriors, but that's two finals trips in three years. And you're holding them on different pedestals. One of three is tough. They can overcome it. Obviously, I think they have the best coaching league, Eric Spostra. For me, I think, and I heard over the summer, they want to see offensively from Bam. They want to see him do more than he's doing on the offense end of the court. Yes, he is a cheat code on defense. But when you got a guy making that money and he's going to be the centerpiece here franchise, let's see a 25 point game. Let's see, let's see 30 when we need it. Let's see a little bit of offensive versatility. Let's see even just his, you know, the knack for scoring, the want to score, whereas he's more of a passive player. They're in a little bit more punch. Obviously, starting Tyler hero shortens their bench as well. They brought Duncan Robinson back into the rotation. It's just, you know, it's a lot going on there. I think luckily for them, they're also a team that's set up in a way where they can spring for some trades. Tyler will be trade eligible after, what is it in December shams? And then they've tried to trade Duncan Robinson multiple times. They got into Kevin Durbin six. There you go. So they're in a place where they can spring and try to make a splash. Will they do it? I mean, I think they should, they need to do something with their roster to add some punch. The East has gotten better over the summer. They've gotten healthier and the heat might be, you know, on the outside looking in as we get further into the season. I can't think, I can't hear Bam and think that he's in the top 10 of negative tweets and he's probably getting a lot of them right now and my heart goes out to him. But when you say making change to the roster shops, is it as simple as adding, as you guys just spoke on an enforcer or would you want to see more than just that? Well, I think they've tried to go both routes. They've looked at Boyan Bogdanovich. They called when he was in Utah. They have not called yet as he's been in Detroit because teams are still trying to get their footing under them, you know, for the first 20, 25 games this season. But that could be an avenue that they go after. But they've also gone back to the well. They've looked into J. Crowder multiple times. They've talked about packages around Duncan Robinson, first round pick and maybe even more draft compensation to go to Phoenix. Phoenix has yet to really engage seriously on that deal because they don't want Duncan Robinson's contract. So those conversations they're continuing to have. I would expect them to continue to explore either J. Crowder or players, you know, kind of similar to that toughness level. Guys, I know we started the season with the tanking and the talk of the tanking and some people didn't get the memo. But the Blazers don't look now are undefeated for and beating the Denver Nuggets. Denver kind of wonky to start things off too. But you know what? We're not going to start with them because Chauncey Billups is doing some stuff up in the Pacific Northwest. Chandler, what are you seeing from this Blazer squad? Dame looks like, Dame looks like Dame, right? I think right now he would be the MVP. He's absolutely on fire. They're undefeated. I love Anthony Simons. He's, it's proven that Dame is very good with, you know, a guard like Cedric McCollum that relieves the pressure, relieves the ball handling. And Anthony Simons is that, I think he's that bucket that can kind of take over the game when Dame's out. He can shoot the ball. I think, you know, Jeremy Grant, the heck out of the ball right now. And I think he's in a good spot too, because his role when he was with Denver was too small. And then his role on Detroit, when he was the main guy, was way too big. And now he's kind of found that sweet spot where he's rolling, he's playing off these guards, Narcich is healthy and playing. Josh Hart is playing great. It's one of the best rebounding guards I've ever seen.  They're young. It looks like they're having fun. I love the rookie, Shaden Sharp. I think he's one of those guys five years from now we can look back and think he might be the best player in this draft. So I think they got some good things early. I think it's, it's, it's early. Let's not blow our wad. But they've done good and, and Dame looks happy and healthy and ball. Yeah, I think you hit it on the head. There's so much like with this team. There's so much versatility they have with that roster. They actually really clamped down on defense yesterday, which was good to see because they're kind of winning shootouts to start the season. Anthony Simon just makes sense next to Dame. Dame is super excited for him. He's cheering them on on the court as he's hitting threes, scored 22 points in the third quarter. But I love the Jeremy Grant point. I love exactly what Chandler said. He's in a role that makes sense for him. He can be third fiddle, fourth fiddle on the right night. And those guys, those guards can set them up, can get him easier buckets.  Their other one, Gary Payton, the second still hasn't even played yet. Maybe Shams has some inside there, but that'll make their defense even better and that'll make their roster versatility even better. They played 11 guys last night, even before it was a blowout. And that's without Justice Winslow, who they want to play a lot as well. There's a lot to like on that team. And as we get deeper into the season and as the tank finally does start, those guys are going to be racking up wins. And maybe a top four seed over there. GP2 is expected to be back soon, Eddie. So that's, like he said, even more firepower for them. When I talk to people around the Blazers around the Blazers about Anthony Simons, the thing that they kept telling me is that this guy will separates him from even CJ McCullum. And he's able to get other players involved. He's able to make people around him better. They swore that he was different than CJ McCullum and that he was an even better fit next to Dame Lillard. That's why they went all in on Anthony Simons. And I love really to see the maturation of Dame Lillard turning into a leader. Like he's obviously the best player on this team, but he's also letting Anthony Simons and allowing these guys to succeed as well around him. They held 9 points last night. He only shot the ball four times. He wasn't indifferent. He was trying to attack. It was a close game. It wasn't like he's just passing up shots. As we know, the beef with nuggets goes back all the way to their rookie years with the nuggets. It's far and deep, but that's a good team over there. That's a good team. A lot of people didn't have them as a top four team, a playoff team even, but there's a lot going on over there in Portland. They're in a good spot. Are you going to stick to this top four thing all season? Because that's pretty big. Yeah, I think they're right there. You learn a lot more about teams in the first week of the season when everybody's healthy, when everybody's fresh, when everybody's implementing new stuff than you do in the middle of the season, when everybody's set in their ways and injuries have occurred and things like that. So yeah, I mean, there's absolutely over there where they're a top four seed. I don't hate it.  I hope it happens. Another game last night, Shams, you were at this one. Bulls handing the Celtics their first loss of the season. What did you see? Well, I saw a really, really low energy in the arena at the beginning of the game. And then once the bull started to turn around, it was actually a remarkable turnaround. It was at one point a 38-point swing. They were down 19 and literally 20 minutes later, they were up 19. So I think it was a crazy turnaround. You have to give the Bulls credit. Zach Levine is looking like a guy that can hopefully stay healthy for them. They're waiting on really the return of Lonzo Ball. The hope is that some point in January he'll be back. And that's when this team will take another turn. But they need to figure out, even internally, Patrick Williams, is he going to be a starter long term? Is he going to come off the bench? They have to figure out his role. But right now, DeMar DeRozan is still doing what he does. And the Celtics were bound to lose eventually. So it was definitely a tough loss for them. Yeah. They declared AO the starter early on in camp. They had a great game. They shot 9-10. The Bulls just shot the ball incredibly well last night. They ran the Celtics out of the gym. Sometimes it just goes like that. Like you said, I think it turned with the energy. And we get to see kind of the peak of what the Bulls can be. Now, when they add Lonzo, they become a much better defensive team. He'll need some time to get right. But it was a good sign for the Bulls because with Zach's kind of shaky start to the season, being injured, we weren't quite sure what we were getting. But they looked pretty good. Whoop, 23 rebounds on that big team. That's nice to see. I know, Chandler, you wanted to talk a little bit about this. And we made it today 22 minutes into the show yesterday. It was 12, today 22, before we talked Lakers and Russell Westbrook. And I am keeping account of this. And it's going to be all season long. So just sit back. Magic Johnson, the latest to chime in says that Westbrook has to take accountability for his poor play. Chandler, what do you think about that?  He's not playing well. He's not shooting the ball good. He definitely to a certain point has to take accountability. He's a proven player. He's a multileser. He's a former MVP. And he's not playing good. You can blame it on the system. You can blame it on the front office. You can blame it on whatever else it is. But he's not playing good. And he's not playing confident. And he's in a really dark place.  And the home crowd is on you and they're booing you. And you can just hear them gasping every time you touch the ball. And as professionals in the heat of the moment when we're playing, it doesn't bother us. But there are some points where I'm looking back and I'm playing timid and I'm passing up shots. And I feel like that's what he's doing right now. He's not happy. You can just tell I think he's going to play much better on the road. I think he's over playing at home. And I think he's just in a really tough place. It's hard to feel bad for a player making $48 million. And it's getting to the point where it's like, damn, like this guy is in a dark place. It's nothing's working. His teammates aren't helping him out. The videos are all going viral of him and LeBron and AD, when he's taking a shot. It's just piling on him. And I think it's, I don't, I don't see their him succeeding. I think they got to find a way to move him because I just think it's it's over and it's not going to work there. First of all, Chandler, we do feel bad. Y'all are people too. You bleed just like we bleed. Okay. So I want to make sure that you know that we care about you. But, but that being said, like as a player and you're in that situation, you know, you see these videos of, of the crowd yelling at him and him coming back out through the tunnel to, to address a fan who just said something negative. When you see him doing that, I mean, he can't be helping himself in that way, right? It's not. And it's, and he should be smart enough and responsible enough to not engage, not engage bad and I at the Westbrook stuff. Like it's, it's all fans. And I agree that fans are out of pocket at half the time.  You have to take the high road and it just seems like he's deflecting and he's rather put attention on anything else other than the Lakers losing in him playing poorly. It's taken a toll on him. I can tell. Yeah.  He's not being put in a place on the offense. He's running less pick and roll than he's ever run in his career. He's going back to his rookie year. He has the ball less than he has. And when you do that to a player, you end up with situations like that attempted to for one. He's wide open. He's in the shot. He didn't touch the ball in a while. We've all been at the gym and like, yo, our teammates aren't passing it. Next time I touch the ball, I'm throwing it up. It's, he's not immune to that. But, but to, to add to what Chandler's saying about the fans piling on, the crowd piling on, the media piling on, it's affecting the Lakers. You see it, you know, as much as we all love to say and all the players will just say, I don't look at my mentions. I don't do this. I don't do that. When you have LeBron sitting there saying, I'm not answering Russell Westbrook questions. When you have Russ, who did that last year too, going and saying, talking to the crowd, it's clearly affecting them. They're having an answer for this every single day. They're seeing these videos every single day. At some point, they have to cut bait. So they're either going to have to put him in a role where he can thrive, or they're going to have to find a place to send him so he can go do his thing. But it's, we're getting really close to the point at a return. And I know Shams, I know you want to say something about it, but luckily for you, we're going to take a quick break and we are going to come back. And when we do, Shams is going to give us the scoop. Plus Eddie's going to try to convince us that the Lakers can make the playoffs and that there's a better team in the East than the Boston Celtics. And we return on run it back. Jamal Crawford. I love when he chimes in fact that most are putting all the Lakers problems on Russ is wack. I'm telling you, every day is a deja vu session. I feel like it's last year all over again. And I don't think he's wrong at all.  It is time to get the scoop from Shams. And the last we checked J Crowder's chilling, waiting for a place to go play. Doesn't want to play for the Suns. What's the latest on him? Shams. Well, we have a new team in the mix, the Milwaukee Bucks. I'm told have engaged in recent conversations with the Suns on a J Crowder trade. I think the Bucks and other teams around the league, including the Suns, they want to see really how these first 20 games play out before they make a move. But right now the Bucks are a new team and they have a couple pieces, whether it's a Grace now and George Hill, that could make potential sense in a deal. We'll see as the season goes on, a deal forming. But I think what we're going to see is the arms race start to develop likely in the Eastern Conference for J Crowder. The Bucks Hawks are two known suitors now. We'll see who else emerges over the next several weeks here. Oh, I can't wait. I want him to be somewhere. That's all I know. And obviously we're going to get back to the Lakers. We just finished talking a bit about Russell Westbrook. You saw Jamal put his two cents in there. What do we have any latest news from them? Well, I agree with Jamal. I don't think you can put everything on Russell Westbrook because this is a roster issue. They're shooting 21% from three-point range as a team. This is not just a Russell Westbrook shooting issue, but they're going to continue to scan options across the entire league. And one player that has become an even more serious target for them is Terry Rozier with the Hornets. They've looked at Newman this summer. And I think that's an avenue they could revisit again. They also, Michelle, had recent conversations with your Spurs on a potential deal around Josh Richardson who shot, what, 50% from three-point range this year. I'm sure you could give me a breakdown of Josh Richardson better than I can. But he's played at a good level. And I think that's another guy, a 3&D wing that they've looked into. But the big thing with them is just price. Everyone wants their two unprotected first round picks. They only have two first round picks to give the rest of this decade. So it's going to be a matter of price. And this is something that I think as we get closer to February, the Lakers are going to have to see which deal makes the most sense from a pricing standpoint. My favorite thing about that too is LeBron's like, yeah, get rid of the picks. But yeah, you're not going to be here. And then it's going to be a wasteland. So it's sort of one of those tricky situations, Shoms. Thank you so much, Chandler. I know I can't imagine what it must be like to be playing, be an active player and constantly have to hear trade rumors. Are you going to be here tomorrow? Where will you be next? What is it like waking up every day not knowing really the future? Yeah, it's distracting. And it takes just time. It takes years in the lead to just kind of understand the business side of it. But it's definitely distracting.  And then you're here in all these trade rumors and stuff. So it's definitely distracting. Like I said, I think the older you get, the more you really understand it. I think as a player, the first question you have is where? Where am I getting traded to? You know, you don't want to go to a bad team or a bad city or a bad situation for you, depending on your role with your current teams. There's a lot of questions you have, and there's a lot of phone calls back and forth with your agent. But it's definitely distracting. And depending on your role with the team, it could linger into the locker room. It could impact games. But it's just something that you've learned to live with and you start to understand the business. You know, just get through it until it actually happens. There's no reason to think about it. Shoms, I know it's time for you to go get busy. Go, go, go discover everything. Get back to us when you find anything. We'll talk to you later. It's time now though for convince me, Eddie, you're up first again, because your job today is to convince us of some things that you may or may not believe. And the first one is convince us that the Lakers will make the playoffs. Good luck. This is a good one. I've been on the show already saying they're not going to. But I do think eventually a Russell Westwood trade happens. I do think they'll get somebody that's a better fit. Now they have to be sure not to give those picks up because they don't have their picks for the next three years. They all belong to the Pelicans because of the Anthony Davis trade. So let's not let the Pelicans have Victor Wimbyama. But I think the path to the playoffs for them is as simple as AD gets in better shape. LeBron is LeBron. And they just start winning games. They start pounding teams in the paint and they do that. I do think there's a path. Again, there's 10 playoff spots and there's at least five teams that are going to be eventually going to tank eventually the spurs and the jazz. And you know, a couple other teams are not going to want to win games anymore. So I actually do think they almost default into the playoffs. They can't waste LeBron seasons.  And as AD gets in better shape and starts to be a little more assertive, the wins are start rolling off. They've had some tough games. I don't know how convincing that was, Chandler. Are you convinced? I like what he said. I think it's early right now and these teams like the spurs and the jazz are accidentally winning and playing so hard that that's what's ruining the Lakers chance right now. I think the longevity of the season, it's all going to pan out and those teams that we talked about, the thunder, the spurs, the jazz, they're going to intentionally try and lose and the Lakers will not do that this year. So is there a way like I think they sneak in? I think they need to make a move regardless, whatever that is. I think they got to get off Westbrook and just keep riding this, you know, Davis LeBron train. I personally don't like their team at all. I don't like watching them play. I think they're very, very bad. But I think there's a chance, like he said, once all these other teams reality checks in and they start losing games, I do think the Lakers will be in that, you know, nine, 10 spot and then anything can happen by the way. I'm insulted by the way. I'm insulted. They have no incentive to lose. Sounds crazy to say, but they have no incentive to trade into the draft. The pelicans have their pick. They have pick swaps their next two picks. They need to get into playoffs. They need to win games. Yeah, I know that, but you're acting like there's a switch that they've got the ability to turn on off, which clearly now we've seen season and a few games in, they don't have a switch. So the idea that you're going to wait for everyone else to start losing on purpose is, well, that's not a good state to be in. Now is it at all? No, it's awful. But for what we do, Jeff's kiss. Chandler, I need you to convince us that John Morant wins the MVP. Oh my gosh, you gave me an easy one. Let me start by saying he is by far the best player on one of the best teams in the Western Conference. They will hopefully be in the top four seed. I mean, look at the guy stats right now. He's at 36, seven, four. Obviously it's early. This is a small sample size, but he's very likable. He's a fan favorite. He's going to put numbers. I think health is his only concern. And by the way, he's doing this without their second best player, Darren Jackson. So I think they're just going to continue to win games. He's going to continue to put up gross numbers, gross highlights. And he's a type of player that it's hard to root against and they're going to win games and he's going to be the main reason why. So I think if you look across the league right now, it's early. It's him Tatum game. But I think that I think the Grizzlies will continue to get better with health, with the growth of those young guys and those the depth that they have with these players of contour and, you know, a lot of these bench players, Aldama or how do you say his name? These guys are balling right now and it's because of John Moran. So I think he's a leader. I think he's the best player. He's putting up numbers and they're going to be one of the best teams. So I think that one's, I think he will win the MVP. Boom. Finish it with a fact statement. Eddie, you can. Yeah. Well, hey, we get Chandler layout, but I do, I do see the path. He's leading the league and scoring right now. He's the most exciting player in basketball and we have a lot of exciting players in this sport. He's a video game like Chandler mentioned earlier. He's must see TV. The story is going to pick up. The story is going to keep going. And if they get the one or two seed and he can scoring, you can just, we don't even have to do the ceremony. He's got it. You know, just bring the trophy to the playoff game like we used to. Yeah, I don't hate it. I wouldn't hate that at all. Eddie, okay. Maybe this one's a little bit easier. I'm not sure you tell me convince us there's a better team in the East than the Celtics. Well, I was all prime to pick the Nets and argue for the Nets here, but we saw it last night went. But I think it's the Bucks. I think they are the best team in the East. We debated yesterday whether or not the Celtics are the best team in the league. And they have an argument, but the Bucks are the Bucks. They're missing their second best player and they look dominant already. They knew they know how to build that roster around Yanis. They surround them with a big man who could shoot or two. And they surround them with small athletic guards who want to guard up. Drew Holliday makes them a championship team. We've seen that. So, yeah, I do think there is a better team than the Celtics. Shout out to the Celtics though. They look great, even though they blew that game yesterday. Yeah, that's okay. You got to lose one eventually. I think that's fine. Guys, we're taking a quick break. Get our water. Get hydrated. Will we come back? I look at tonight's biggest matchups. There's some good ones. We're going to see Luca and Zion back in action in New Orleans. And can the Suns slow down the Warriors? That's all up. Unrun it back. It is game day. Thank you, Gold State Warriors for the reminder, and they will be playing the Sun. So it's time to take a look at tonight's biggest matchups. And that is, it's Warriors at Phoenix, which was, of course, the Western Conference. So many finals that we expected didn't get. But here we are. Everyone's a little bit older. What do we expect from tonight? How about you, Chandler? You go first. Yeah, this is going to be a heck of a game. I think obviously these are the two of the top teams in the Western Conference. Like we always talk about it's early here, but this is the matchup we want to see. This is two of the powerhouses the last couple of years, healthy for the most part. I think Phoenix is going to take a step back this year. I just don't think they're going to have the stand run. And this season they've had the last couple of years. I like the Golden State Warriors in this game. But it's going to be fun. It's exciting. Anytime you get this caliber of players on the court, it's going to be exciting. There's going to be a lot of threes. You're going to run up to score. And it's going to be a heck of a game. I just think the Warriors are going to be too much for them. Eddie, you agree? I mean, they're both sitting at two and one. Is the window for the Suns? Was that it last season? Did they miss it? It might have been.  If you look at Chris Paul in his career, this is his third goal at the Warriors, and he's not gotten any closer. So it might have closed when they got COVID for that game seven and things went where they went. The Suns likes to look decent this year. I mean, their one loss was the overtime loss to the Blazers, the powerhouse Blazers, as we know now. And that was a game. I mean, they should have won that game. You know, De'Andre made the free throw late, but you know, they have continuity working for them. I think they have a really good coach. They have Devin Booker, who is, you know, might be one of the ten best players in the league. He's amazing. I think what's worrisome for them is the slip that Chris Paul has seen have taken this year. I expect the Warriors to, like, kind of prove a point today. They didn't like losing that Nuggets game, and they were going to want to get back on the right track. Also, one of their other wins against Dallas, too, they were getting thumped by 20 and it took a game winner from Damian Lee to get that win, too. So I just, I don't see it from them this year. I think it would be exciting. I obviously think they're going to be in the playoffs and they're going to make pushes, but yeah, I got the Warriors all night. I like that point, Sandler, because I just knew Luca made that three. I just knew it. You know, Damian Lee shot like, Damian Lee has another buzzer beater when he was on the Warriors, but you lose to that. Like, come on. What are we doing? Well, I mean, you just said he had another one, but Chris Paul, you mentioned Chris Paul, slow start or beginning of, I suppose, the decline? It's inevitable. I think this is decline. Seven points a game is pretty bad, but 32% from the field is way worse. This was always inevitable with Chris. He's a really small guard. He was relying a lot on kind of just smarts. And when he lost just a little pinch of quickness and athleticism, it was going to fall off a cliff. It's, it's, it's looked bad. I mean, even in that game, in the Mavericks game, they made the run with him on the bench. So, you know, I'm a little worried about Chris Paul.  He's got that big contract. Who knows what happens with him as the season goes on. But no, I think it's, we're getting there. I mean, he's up in age, man. He's long in the tooth. Long in the tooth. Taylor, you agree? Yeah, I totally agree.  I think he still can be effective in pick and roll and plan at his pace and, you know, getting in the lane floaters, finding guys, but it's definitely, I think this is the, this is the Chris Paul that we never had to get accustomed to. And I think, you know, his better days are, you know, behind him. Oh, it's just the worst when that becomes the thing. Mavs Pelicans. I'm excited about this game, Dallas going into New Orleans. And this will be the topic I think for as long as Luca plays, quite frankly, are there enough good pieces around Luca to give him a legitimate shot at accomplishing some things this year, Chandler? Yes and no, I think he's so good that he can, he can get them there. And I love guys like Spencer. And, and I think the big move for them is Christian Wood. I mean, the guy has, he's playing very well coming off the bench this year for them. You know, and, and you could tell early on he wasn't thrilled about that. But yeah, I think this is huge for them. I think he's top five in PDR and he's so skilled. And we really haven't seen Luca play with a big like this outside of Prozingus who kind of missed a lot of time when he was there. And we've seen him put runs in hard away and guards like that. But this is the first time he's got that two man big game going on where they're having success early. And, and, and I do, I think they're a championship team. No, but I think Luca and Christian and Spencer Dinwiddie and Tim Hardaway, those guys stay healthy. I think they could, they're capable of winning a lot of games. Eddie, I know you've convinced us that John Aransy MVP, but right now Luca is still the favorite for that award. What does he have to do to snatch the hardware away from John Morant? I mean, he's Fandall odds on favorite already for a reason. We know he's going to rack up numbers. His team went to the Western Conference finals last year. They're going to win games. He's going to have great moments. Clutch always has the ball on his hands. I think he's, he's doing what he's doing. There's a chance he, when the dust settles, everybody's scoring 30 something a game. He'll end up averaging closer to triple double. If he can get a triple double, I think it's sewn up. It's doable for him. It's doable for him. I think the question of if they have enough is much more complicated, but MVP, he's going to win a few of these off stats alone. He has the ball all the time. He racks up his numbers and he's great. At the end of the day, he's great. He's great at what he does. On the other side, you've got the two and one Pelicans sitting there waiting. What, what do they do to slow down Luca and make their record a little bit better? Chandler? Yeah, this is the game I'm really excited about. They're coming off a weird opener loss to this jazz team that's trying to lose, but somehow winning. On a game winning. Yeah. So this one's fun for me.  Is Brandon Ingram playing tonight? Do we know that? No, Brandon Ingram and Zion's questionable as of right now. Okay. So that changes a little bit. Okay. Here we go. I think they do have bodies. I think they have, you know, Herb Jones, I think it's going to, you're going to see show his length on on Luca and they're going to try and mix it up on him. It's funny.  I think it's going to be tough, but man, I think the others got to be physical with Luca. They're going to try and deny him the ball, make him second or make those other guys make place to beat them. But yeah, with Ingram and Zion question rule, I don't really like their chances. Eddie, you agree? Yeah. I mean, the same. I think Herb Jones is actually his knees a little sore as well. So if Herb is out, like, I might not even have to watch this game. So, but I do like their chances, even if without Brandon Ingram, if they have Herb and they have Zion because CJ McCullum has been sensational this season. He's a great ball handler. They don't operate with a traditional point guard in that sense. They operate with a couple of playmakers with BI, with CJ, even with Zion. I also like what Jonas may be able to do to the fabrics. They're going to attack him on defense, of course, but if he's going to be able to bully them all night and keep it close, there's a way they muck this up and stay close, but I still think the Mavericks pulled it out. They're healthier. And I think they got a better player tonight. I disagree with you. I just like this Pelicans team, though, in the long run. When they're healthy, I think they're one of those teams to make noise in the playoffs. I agree. And they're fun to watch. Yeah, I've seen them in person and you can see what they've done. They've surrounded their playmakers with just lanky, athletic guys to defend. And it makes a ton of sense when you watch it out there. We got a couple more games, Wizards Pistons playing as well tonight. I know there are a lot of names in this one, but I really want to focus on Kyle Kuzma. And we've watched him his whole career. We're just trying to figure out, is this him finally fulfilling his potential Chandler? I mean, he can play. He's big. He's long. He can shoot. He can play pick and roll. He's athletic. He's trying to defend a lot more this year. I think he's a very good player. Is he a number one, two option on a championship team? I don't think so, or at least not yet. But he doesn't have to be there. They put around pretty solid pieces around him. He's got Brad Bielas going to take the majority of the shots. And Kuz is smart. Kuz played with the brawn. Kuz knows how to play off guys. He knows how to cut without the ball. He knows how to get himself shots and get open and almost to a flaw sometimes where he's forcing some bad ones. But I think he's in a good place where he's not the go-to guy, but he still can be a good player and try and go get buckets. And they're having some success early with it. And the other game tonight, Clipper is going into Oklahoma City, a game or team that hasn't won a game yet. And I think John Wall fans everywhere are very happy to see John Wall back. Eddie, are you liking what you're seeing from him? Yeah, I mean, he looks like John Wall. He's not a great jump shooter, but he's getting to the lane. He's providing some speed for that team. 16 points a game. I think it's far exceeding a lot of people's expectations. He's been telling us for two years, I can still play. You know, I'm still me. And he's came out there and showed, I'm, look, when these guys come back from these injuries or from being kind of pushing the exile, I'm just happy to see them on the court again. And John's a great guy. He's worked hard to get back on the court. It's helped overcome those injuries. Achilles is, you know, used to be a death sentence in a lot of ways. So I'm excited for him. He's back.  Guys, we're going to take a quick break up next tank watch. Plus we're going to try this again. Our on the fly parlay that it's going to hit. I know it because Ben Simmons will not be in it today. Run it back, wrap things up next. Well, it's tank watch just like every day. And Clippers Thunder talked a little bit about them. The thunder are only nine and a half point under dog. So what level of tank can we expect here? Will they make it close? And then something could happen at the end or what are we talking here, Eddie? What do you expect? Oh, this is not going to be close at all. At no point is this game going to be close. The 76ers showed us how to do this, but the thunder have been showing us how to do it for a couple of years now. They see that team with Chet and Vic. They see it right now. They have the murals painted. They have the marquee ready. They're ready. So yeah, they're not messing this up. So it's not going to be close at all. So nine and a half is a joke. You're thinking what double digits then? We might see an interesting final three minutes of this game and guys pressing up against that number in garbage time, but it's not going to be a game in that sense. Chandler, we need to come up with a system for levels of take. Like how do we determine a level of a tank game? But do you agree with Eddie? This one's, yeah, they know what they're doing. Yeah. This one should be over rather quickly. It's always tough. Like I said, when the walk-ons come in at the end of the game, it's tough because then the score can get a little diluted. But yeah, I think this one won't be close from Rip. Time to make people rich, you guys. We tried this yesterday on the fly parlay. We've got a four leg parlay. Eddie, you up first. Your first two legs are what? Yeah, I have Chris fall under 12 and a half points. Like we said, he's probably washed. It's fine. The wears don't take mercy on him. I also have Luca with a triple double tonight. If there's hopeful, there's no Herb Jones. Yeah. Nobody on that team can guard him. He's going to get his money. Okay. Chandler. So I got Warriors sons over to 26. Okay. Defense has been there for going to stay. Obviously tons of shooting on the floor, which is weird because my next one is clay Thompson under 15 and a half points. I expect a bigger game from pool stuff. I don't think clay gets it done, but I think the teams go over, but clay goes under. All right. So if all four of those legs hit, by the way, you bet a hundred bucks, you will win $4,957. Somebody has to pull this off. We're going shopping Chandler wedding gifts for you, my friend. This one seems doable. It really does. I said that yesterday and I'll probably say it every time, but this one for real. I mean it seems doable for shams for Chandler for Eddie. This has been another episode of running back. It has been fun. Enjoy all the games tonight. We'll see y'all tomorrow.


And I'm moving on to other parts of Africa. West African leaders have held a key summit as a wave of cool buffet in the region and struggling with poverty and a long history of turbulence. The emergency talks were triggered after Burkina Faso in January the 24th became the third member of the 15 nation economic community of West African states. Echo was to be taken by the military. Burkina Faso followed Mali, where a coup in September 2020 was followed by a second in May 2021, and Guinea-Weir elected President Alpha Konde was ousted last September. Hello, hope you enjoyed the news. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.