All right, thanks for staying with us. Now, storytelling through animation is an art form that has been around for centuries. It involves using visual sounds and music to create a narrative that can be understood by the viewers. Now, animation allows telling stories in ways that would otherwise be impossible and is an excellent method to associate with the audience in a fun and innovative manner. In recent times, animation has been employed in various fields to enhance knowledge, marketing, advertisement, and age group from infant to adult. So today we're asking, what is the future of animation in storytelling? And, of course, how will it impact our children? Now, please just hear what you have to say. Remember, if you enjoy the conversation, send us an SMS over at<PHONE_NUMBER>. You can also thread us at Wayshow Africa, or these people that refuse to enter. You will thread it by force. You see pain? Yeah, it's a pain. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Okay, so, I mean, what's your memory about cartoons and animation, you know, because I remember that everything that I know about maybe animals and so many things, right? It's childhood growing up, watching, you know, watching all those classics, right? Tom and Jerry, Powerpuff Girls, Voltron, has it, Defender of the Universe, there's nothing, you know? And I see the evolution of animation. It is, I mean, when I watched The Lion King, the 3D, I've been on a 5D, I've been on a 7D, that one. It's like, you'll be seeing the hair of the lion. Like, the evolution of the animation industry has grown so much. And, for some strange reason, I actually am more captivated in stories that involve animation than just real life acting. I don't know how it is. I mean, my son recently came back home, right? And he just said, Mom, can we watch this movie? I bought it for him.  Joseph the Dreamer, right? We bought that thing. I remember that CD. We watch him, watch him, watch him. So, we're just scrolling through Netflix and he saw Joseph, you know? He said, Mom, can you watch it again? I said, well, you watch it, they say, yeah, I just want to watch it. And trust me, it felt like I was watching the game. Like, we were watching the game for the first time. So, just imagine how, you know, especially when you say, oh, children are having difficulty and all of that, just doing it the right way. And I'm so thankful for the guests that we have today because I've always wondered when will we get it right? But we're complaining about how they're infusing a lot of things that are not our culture into animation. Who are the better options?  But now you're seeing that, especially in the Nigerian space, we are taking animation to the next level, which is really exciting for me. I wish I had babies, but I'm not going to talk last again, but do something for us. Well, let me hear your thoughts with you. It's for everybody, right? Yeah. It's a very powerful video. I think it started off, for me, animation is the original green screen. It was the first place where Escapes Inn was really, really real. When we were watching the equivalent of fantasy movies back then, if you remember, what's the name of that movie now? The one with the flying dragon that looked like a stuffed dog. Was it not Fantasia? What was it called? The city was called Fantasia, but I can't remember the name of the movie. We could find a princess. Some of us are really English. I was pretty sure she wouldn't like it. She wouldn't say that, so we would look for it. It was literally the fantasy movie for kids in the 80s. 80s, yeah. But the thing for me with animation is, like you said, it's very emotive. We all have these memories of the particular movie of your childhood. And when you are talking about the stories that are being told, animation was also a very powerful medium for teaching kids. So we don't have it in a lot of the cartoons they show today, but in the 80s, most of the cartoons, when you get to the end, the characters would literally stop and talk about the morals of the story. And you would learn even things like, you know how to cross the street, how not to tell lies, and talk about the consequences in the story. So it was a way in which we learned. And then when you started to talk about representation as well, what was it now? It was a couple of months, not a few months ago, not too long ago, when they launched the Little Mermaid, the movie. And I remember, I think it was probably last year, or even the year before that, when the trailer came out the first time, do you remember that video that was training all the little black girls were going, oh, she looks like me, she looks like me. So the importance of cultural representation, contextually for us in animation, is so important because the world has gone lower. So we need to protect and we need to tell our stories. So that our children can connect. We already have a problem with preserving our history. So for me, to have local content in that medium that is so powerful and so easy for people to connect to, and it's not just about kids, it's for all ages. Like, I still love watching cartoons. The entire Disney collection of old movies for me, sometimes I just binge watch and I want to watch them and they're just beautiful stories, right? So I'm so excited for the topic today because animation storytelling, the future for our children, what they get to interact with, a lot of questions there. Absolutely. How will you pitch it a little quickly? Yeah, so for me, I'm going to, well, as a person, I actually love animations, except the animes, those Asian and Korean ones, I don't like those ones, right? But then when we talk about the ones and lines of Disney, what's the popular one? The Moana. Oh, Moana, yes, yes, yes. I love, love, love. And I'm talking from being a teacher, right? I love the fact that animation helps with interactive storytelling, right? And it also encourages critical thinking in children, increases your problem solving skills as well and things like that. And also, I have just realized that when the children watch these things, they're able to then immerse themselves. Unfortunately, these days, like you said, we now have stories or characters that are portrayed in lines that we don't want our children to tour, you know? But it's not taking away the experience and what it is that animation actually does for the kids. So I'm actually very excited and I can't wait to hear from Damla last day. Absolutely. And Damla is called Never Ending Story. Okay, give her a name, she'll remember it. I will go and look for it. And no watcher, you see, no vest. Damla, let's see. Is an accomplished animation director and producer currently serving as the CEO and creative director of Smith's Animation Studios, which she founded in 2010. Under her leadership, Smith has become one of the leading animation companies in Africa, earning recognition as one of the top two animation companies in Nigeria according to the EY Industry Report 2019. With a focus on 3D animation, Smith has successfully completed numerous projects for various clients and is currently working on creating children's content. Hallelujah for television and web. And we are super excited to be having our host, Dame Lola, but she's joining us by herself. Unfortunately, she couldn't come into the studio. We'll bring her for a part two. We know that we want for sure. But thank you so much, Dame Lola, for joining us this evening. Thank you so much for having me. I mean, this is an interesting conversation. I was just telling my co-anchors here. I said, see, when Dame Lola, when I met Dame Lola many years ago and she was telling me about the dream of animation and all that, I said, if I had known, she would have been able to bought shares in the company. You know? So imagine if I had bought shares in the company by now, I would have been very, very, very wealthy. I'll be sitting in the bank and just counting off my dollars. But thank you so much for joining us, Dame. Thanks so much for having me. And now we'll have to meet the president first. I'm telling you, I think we need to revisit that conversation. Let's find a way to invest.  You wanted to do animation, right?  Because I've been used to like all those pencil things that they would draw and they say it's animation. You can't compete with the kind of technology that is being used globally for storytelling and what we were doing then. It was almost like caricature and mediocre. But people like you decided, you know, what we're going to put in everything, bring out excellent quality contents for children. And I love your direction. Because I've always said it that we're complaining about what our children are being fed. What are we doing to ensure that we start to control the narrative that is being exposed to our children? You know, so for that, I say thank you because it's not an easy venture. I know that I do a lot of kids' events and they will tell you that there's no ROI when it comes to children's events. So even getting funding for those kinds of projects, you know, it's a tough thing. But you know what? Generally, in your assessment, from when you started in animation, so now, you know, what has been the journey like and what is, you know, what is it currently looking at? Where are we right now? Before we talk about the future. Thank you. So thank you so much again for having me. Animation has been very interesting over the last few years. We started to compete 13 years ago and when we started the Wilsonite Industry our people didn't understand what we were trying to do. But over the last few years, we've seen a lot of good, you know, within the space here in Nigeria and also by a lot of interest in African animation now, particularly in Nigerian animation has really picked up over the years. I'm really grateful for that. I think people want to hear that we're pretty much here. You know, stories from all spirits from Nigeria which is very important. I think we have a lot of stories that have come and we've always, stories telling is so kind. That comes to us naturally from our grandparents.  So where we are now, we're telling new stories to young people through the entertainment industry and through the music. I think now is not the time for animation. We're at 20 people. I say they have been here 13 years. They haven't been in a better time to be in animation than right now because right now there's so much going on. And I really want to go fast and diverse.  We have so many movies that are coming out this year. All these movies are, you know, animated movies. Even though they don't perceive that way, they are DFX movies, their content and all that. But at the same time, it's still in the same animation process. So again, animation is here to stay in education. Now we've seen quite a number of applications for that for kids. Because again, kids have different ways of learning, some are visual learners. And being able to have content for them is also very crucial as well too. So it's really an exciting time right now for animation. Pointing in how the industry is going and we're excited that, you know, we stay because... Absolutely. 13 years, that's no joke. Go ahead. Okay, so I would ask, right, I'd like that you said when you're now exploring animation using African content, and we know that in Africa, well up until recently, we do not necessarily explore sensitive topics and also topics like mental health issues and, you know, things like that. So I would like to ask, how do you think animation can actually break down these barriers? And what role do you think animation can play in resilience and mental health issues for children? I think that's an important topic, particularly because of the stigma that has been around in mental health, especially in this part, I think, animation has a very light-heartedness when it comes to how the story is perceived visually and all that can actually break through those barriers. So I think that's a really engaging topic that people can stone, again, if you make a pick-up and say, I want to tell the story, you know, about mental health, recent animation, directed at kids. I don't think it's anyone I know who is focused in that area and say, okay, this is the story I want to tell the champion. And I feel like I have something to say. I have a voice, and animation would be a great visual medium to do that. I think when it comes to those kind of heavy topics, that's why I have anything. Just thinking about the idea, having a short film around that is very visual and at the same time, it gives the point that needs to be very push-out. It needs to pass down to its children. It's important that you understand what it is. And again, we know that stigma, because I think that's really the problem around here, part of the stigma around mental health issues, which is what we need to hope so that that will really require the help and get it, access to help the required and then it can also get better. So for me, when I think animation, so education is a huge problem here in Nigeria. And I remember during COVID, they had like, I think it was like radio shows to help children learn. Storytelling is also another big thing. So everybody now today is talking about storytelling. The other day, I'm sorry, I was talking about doing a presentation, I said storytelling. You know, it's becoming buzzword, storytelling. But when I think animation and I think the ability to tell stories, it's a unique way to teach, right? It offers a unique opportunity to teach people. So given the realities of our own education sector and what we're facing in Nigeria today, what are your thoughts around how animation can impact the future of learning in the reality of what our education system is like today and the reality of the poverty line and children that don't have direct access to education? How can animation help? Animation can reduce the gap in education. After even thinking about it, kids learn differently.  And for a long time, I think now with the new schools, they're trying to bridge their gap with visual learners. But for a long time, I think me growing up as a visual learner, I struggled through in school. In fact, it was very auditory, the way we were taught. So I think it's important that animation can pay great people in education because it can help break down topics, complex topics. And kids are already watching cartoons already.  So imagine using that as a medium, as a tool. Do you need to teach complex subjects like mass, you know, like biology and things like that? I think it's a great bridge that needs to happen. If you companies are already going to play in that space, but if I even go deeper to ensure that this knowledge is able to spread around and of course, like even kids in low-income areas, providing that access for them, I know some of the, some government organizations are doing some work in that area to ensure that they have, I think because the government is doing something to provide jobs for teachers and the like. I think it's important that we can do it out even deeper because animation does play a key role and can actually break down those barriers. I think we talk about the industry seeker, you know, pointing in Nigeria. I believe very strongly that having videos, you know, some of the videos that some kids are already watching, that have that like, student degree seeker, student numbers and things like that, you can also have this kind of video station, they're going to take part in your concept, using animation that they can easily grab, they can remember and you can actually learn whatever ideas that they're required to learn and think animation can truly play a role in that. Absolutely, okay, so let's quickly go run off on the break, right? When we come back from that break, we'll continue this conversation. Stay with us, we'll be right back. All right, thanks for staying with us now. If you just tuned in, we're having an interesting conversation around the future of animation in storytelling and the impact on our children and we have them in Lola, sure, let's see. Now remember, you can join the conversation, send us an SMS or WhatsApp to<PHONE_NUMBER>3, you can also tweet at us at Weissho, Afqa One with the hashtag Weissho. So that, me, I like to discuss finance, right? When it comes to issues around children, because I know how a lot of brands, they're looking at me from side-eye, you know? You know, just very few brands are very supportive when it comes to children. How expensive, first of all, if we say, for instance, let's just say that we want to do a movie like Little Mermaid, but tell our Nigerian story and make it our own, that is not still like a foreign story and all of that, but it's going to have that same standard of production, everything and all of that. How affordable is it, or what are we looking at in terms of figures and numbers? Because, you know, I've heard people say that, see, this tiny friend of mine, I think I connected her to you, that does the Kiliway, Timebender, something, something. She, when she tells me how much they do the, I say, ah, you know, so tell me, you know, because we are complaining that we don't have quality content, right? We are, our children are constantly flooded or bombarded with these high quality productions. So if we really want to, right, change the face of animation, especially for the African continent, for children, we also also have to match that level of production. How easy will it be for animators and producers and content creators to do that? So animation is expensive, like he said, so that's one of the major challenges and I think that's one of the challenges we look at here in Nigeria because the investors are already used to the non-lubable model and animation costs almost four times the budget and takes even way longer. So in non-lubable, we are looking at maybe two months there about ramp up production and animation, you're looking at two years. So it's like, the numbers, it doesn't add up for them because they're like, I can't turn out how many couple of movies, you know, we did that in the same period of time. So that's one of the major challenges that we have in industry, in fact, that local investors are not readily interested in animation currently because of the cost of it and also how long it takes. But again, as a company, we've tried to be very innovative around how we've approached that over the years and very creative for time. There was a time when we focused very soon on content for brands and agencies and we did ads for a long time. Now we're moving to content and we're finding many creative ways to fund our budget. One of the things we're doing is actually looking international to bring to the market as one of the things that we've done very consistently in the last three years, we've been doing to international markets. We've used to seek partners, co-producers, co-financers to come together and make the projects that we want to make happen. So I think that's one of the major challenges is actually the finance and reasonable finance. You mentioned the Tumami, I don't have the exact goal for the Tumami goal. And it's called Disney, you know, pixel movie and it's a movie there about it's costing you close to $200 million. So that's a lot of money. So... Yeah, well, it's a lot of money. And I mean, you've sort of hit the nail on the head in terms of the challenges. So for me, the question then becomes, how do we sell it, right? Because anybody who's going to put their money behind that kind of animation that's telling an African story, the ROI I imagine is a very important conversation and the ability to distribute that then becomes another conversation because if you sort of think about it where in that phase where it's not Nigeria to the world, right, our music is going places, our food, our fashion is going places. So how can we take, what are the possibilities for distributing these stories? And given that you've started to do a lot of work outside of Nigeria, what is the appetite like to say, I want, you know, African or Nigerian animated stories? If I give you that money today, is there a market for it outside of Nigeria? Yes, actually, this is actually one of the reasons why I say that this is the best time to be in animation because now the world is looking and saying, we want to hear from you as African creators, we want to hear stories. I think this month, you know, there are about three different big productions, one on Netflix, one on Disney Plus and another one on Netflix. So they're all done by African creators and even Nigerian creators. So right now the world is listening and saying, we want to hear diverse stories. We want to hear stories from around the world. We don't just want to be in our box anymore and we believe that diversity of stories actually helps everyone, you know, having more robust entertainment, you know, pallets and the like. So this is actually one of the best that they want to hear these are stories. And as Africans has tapped, I think there's some other thing we're making a joke in the office that we saw on other production online that was about a remake. I'm sure it's like the fourth or fifth time that we're making that particular story. I'm like, oh hey, you're making this story four or five times when you can, when there's still a world of stories, you know, here on the continent of Africa that hasn't even been explored in any way, shape or form. We have our folk tales, one of our production is highly based on the Japa stories. We have so many, if you go to every tribe, there are over 250 plus tribes in Nigeria and every single one of them has stories, folk tales that have been passed down from generation to generation. And sometimes, like I'm looking at my kids now, no one is telling them, send them down by any fire please, telling them those stories. Those stories so that they do not die have to be animated so that the next set of generation, those stories need more in animation. We have so many of them. Of course, Nigeria, where we have and of course Africa there, I think in Ghana, they have, you know, Anansi in South Africa, there are just so many of these folk tales that need to be told through animation and animation can actually drive those lessons, those morals, you know, that our grandparents try to use these stories to teach us back in the day. We can actually use animation to tell our kids some of the stories. Okay, thank you Dami. So I know that with animation is becoming an increasingly realistic world, right? But then I would also want to ask, what's, what do I call it now? What ethical considerations are animators considering when it comes to creating these stories? Because we've said that, you know, we're beginning to see a lot of, I mean, the other day my daughter was watching something on Nickelodeon and then we saw two teenagers that said they were gay. And I saw the way she paused and, you know, looked at me like, okay, I mean, I was lost at that point myself. So what's ethical considerations are animators? You as an animator, what ethical considerations are you putting in place to ensure that children, I mean, contents like that are not publicized? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think every filmmaker, every animator lives within an ecosystem. So the ecosystem where you kind of show that your daughter was watching, you know, has in many ways normalized that kind of lifestyle. So definitely those kind of things, you know, go. But again, for us here in Nigeria, the laws are very clear as regards to where the government stands as regards to those issues and as law by these citizens will definitely follow. And I also have my own personal conditions as regards to those kinds of things. So I think it's important that, again, it's every filmmaker will have to make that decision, you know, won't be able to ask to what kind of stories you want to tell, what kind of stories you want to push. I think for me, I'm very, very focused on telling, you know, historical stories, telling folk tales. I think it's very important that we share some of those stories we have in this world and get to stories that needs to be explored, you know, as Africans are very passionate about telling, you know, about African history. But it's not because in the last few years, history has been taken out of our schools and without knowing your past, without knowing where you come from. It's very difficult to use to project into the future. So I think it's important that kids know this story. I think it's also important that you also reflect the values that you have as, you know, as an individual, whatever stories you tell. So I'm also passionate, you know, about telling and I'm also very passionate about the world, fantasies and the like. So just like in cartoons, I watch as a child, filming with folks and friends. If I want them to do the same thing for the next generation, we need to film them with folks for them to know that, yes, whatever it is they want to achieve in life, and they can do that. I'm going to touch it a little bit. Now, who did they pay money? Let me tell you a story on how people watch. No, but you know, I wanted to ask, because I like the fact that you said that you're concerned about history and about folklore and all. But in our days, right, Tales by Moonlight was a thing. But I want to know what your thoughts are around today's child as a consumer of content. How do we make those stories interesting for them? Thank you. Because it's old school, now you're competing with the likes of Paw Patrol. I mean, there's just so many things, right? And the quality and the standard, I mean, we're at the point of AR, VR, these kids are way ahead of us, right? So how are we going to tell these stories in a way that they actually want to sit still and watch? Because I've got it to the point now where I think that my son actually watches TV, like he hasn't experienced TikTok before, but he doesn't have the patience to sit through a whole episode. So he's literally, I'm fast-forwarding halfway through, I've clicked over to something else. How do we make these stories captivating even via animation? Yes. I think when it comes to playing a history and a culture through animation, I think one of the key things is that, what this topic is hitting on which is storytelling. We have to ensure that we drive that home to the ground whereby you are able to tell stories that engage them. Yes, it's about the history and culture you want to pass. But how do I engage them? What are the things that engage kids now? Is it fantasy? Is it action? Is it comedy? You have to ensure that those ingredients are filled into the story you're trying to tell so that they are 100% engaged in whatever it is that you're telling them which is the key. So ensuring that you're taking them through that story and then they're able to see and appreciate your culture in the new light because of how you presented it to them. So I think the characters matter so much, the environment matters, the lines, the dialogue is so important to ensure that, and each of these touch points in the movie you're able to drive home in whatever it is you're pointing. And I think, again, we're still very, in the very early days of what we're doing and even some of our productions are not yet, they're still out, they're still in production currently so they're not out yet. But again, from some of the things I think we released a couple of books two months ago and we'll see response from people and these books are based on African history, like you, Kumori, Me, Queen, Amina, the great world of being in Kingdom. So people are seeing kids, you know, engaging with some of this content and I'm like, okay, this is exactly what we want. This is supposed to be a series. But we said, let's start out with the books and see how we engage market with that. And we're seeing kids responding to you as we approach that they will. And I think, again, it's just that story in the sense that whatever it is that we're telling them, we're captivating them, we practice that they can care and love and then we're also captivating them with words and new stories that can really pull them and really bring them in which is the most important thing. So, you know that this is our taste by moonlight story, where we see the ask you so. You know, those are the, say those teeth from your mother's bones. Don't do this. I want to just quickly mention that I saw in a video on TikTok today, the guy said, Kaimajie, that he, why did he put that? We say he's just, you know, almost like I dozed myself. That's me that they said, I should not see from my mother's bones.  Some of our stories were stories to keep us grounded.  But now, you know, the way the world is lopsided, I was going to say to Chinelo that it is somebody that's also funding it, that would go in the direction of what the story would look like, right? So how do we start to get more, so people that have some level of, they're still at that level of moral standing, strong, whatever, and all of that to be able to then build? Because you see, one thing that I've always said, it's better I do not do it. But if I want to do it at all, I must match with Disney production.  Because that is the competition that my children are, you know, that's what they're faced with.  That's the standard they are used to. I mean, I saw a child. This child has never crossed the shores of this country.  Like the, I don't understand. So that is their reality. And because they shouldn't are locked in front of the screen and they're seeing all of these things. So they are mimicking, they are, you know, so they are taking on some of these things. And you know the thing about cartoon, it's you're soaking everything in. So how do we start to get funders? How do we pull? Because Uti asked a very important question about attracting it, you know. So what do we need to do? You know, to start bringing in, because what we need now? We already have the expertise. How do we pull in like funds that can match like the Little Mermaid kind of production? Yes. How do we pull those funds in? Definitely, the only thing kids don't know is their appetite is very high. And I think the standard for animation is also as well high, because they are so filled with, you know, bombarded every single day with content from every side. And that if you don't meet, you know, that particular secretor or secretor is impossible for you to get kids to their, they want new shoes that are so fantastic, you know, on some of the platforms like Netflix and that. I'm trying to get my kids to what I like. I know this creator, this show is really good and I like that because they are, you know, so used to, you know, whatever it is that they want to watch and like. So I think the bar and standard is very high for, you know, for creators like this and we just have to meet. But I think right now, where the industry is, where we are as a company right now, we are able to meet.  The training has been provided for over the last few years that we've been trying to engage in this, in this field. So I think we're, again, we haven't, we haven't practiced that in the grass, grass sitting yet, but we're very close and, you know, we write partnerships, we've tried to do some of the things that we are also employing in some of our productions to ensure that we're not, you know, this island, you know, but we're seeing how we can collaborate and even internationally to be able to make, you know, the kinds of productions, kinds of qualities that we want to make happen. I think for us, it's really finding all the right ingredients. So if you have the great story, you have the partners that you require, you have the people who are able to drop the phone so you can make this happen and having all that right mixed together to actually bring, you know, the production that you truly want. And I think we're really close. We're really close as I'm saying it. Yeah, talk quickly because I wanted to also ask career opportunities because this is also the season where a lot of people want to japa and all of that. And I know that most of the animators are tech driven careers, which is technically the future of work, right? So are there real career opportunities for someone that is watching that says, you know what, how can I go and train with Smith and how much can I, you know, maybe as a startup and all of that, how can I, what would be my take home at the end of the month, right? Are there real career opportunities for people and, you know, especially in that entire value chain of an animation in Nigeria? Yes, definitely. So again, as I said, there's been a growing, there are lots of productions that are currently, you know, ongoing in the industry and we are getting heavily. So I think for anyone who is creative, who is young, who is ready to get into the space, the best time for you to start to learn, there are a couple of studios who are over-trading. There are all courses you can take, you know, online or wherever to get the skills that you require for people to make this happen. Animation is people driven. It's one of the reasons why it's so expensive. You have a big sample video, about 200 people working on that particular production. The little man made that you mentioned, if you see the cast list, it's going on for, you know, for minutes and minutes. So it's, animation takes a lot of people to make it happen and we need those people in the current industry to make that happen. So if anyone who's out there, who has probably been thinking about animation, I say this is the best time for you to get in. So that means someone like me now, that, you know, do I have a chance? Oh, yes. Oh, yes, you do. Oh, yes, definitely. So again, it's about your own willingness to want to get into the space. Animation is hard and sometimes you can see, you know, the two or three minutes, you know, stuff that is on the TV and like, oh, I can do that. But animation is hard. But you have the willingness to say, okay, I want to get in. I want, I have the discipline and the drives maybe to make it happen. That's it.  Voice over. Voice over. Hey! Please come on and voice over. So I'm receiving this. There are other value chains, there are voice over artists, there are all kinds of people within the space. Please, their writers, you know, part of the number of people that are required to make the videos that happen. That's a lot of people on the production, yeah.  Yes, but you don't know the amount of work that goes into it. So 200 people, if it's an epic Marvel movie, you can understand it. But you don't think about it from a cartoon. That means we are going to write our application and we'll send our CVs. But thank you so, so much for hanging out with us tonight. I would hope to have you live in the studio because this conversation is actually quite interesting. So there are so many opportunities in there that I can see for people. Thank you so much. Abiyo, next topic at this one. Carriers in animation. Carriers in animation. Daddy will give you the next topic. So plan for us. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. So before we go, thank you ladies. Now, follow us across all our social media handle. Follow us on Thread. You can tell us in the comments. Drop a comment or more importantly, follow all our great mess on social media likes and invite your families and friends to watch and follow. Ootito also wants to go to Thread. She wants open accounts. If you missed our quote for today, here it is again.  No, it is a storytelling. That's why we put so much importance on story. No amount of great animation will save a bad story. I hope my voice was nice enough because I'm practicing for voiceover. We'll see you guys live on Monday as we bring another great conversation to your screen. Ciao.


opportunities. All right, we are on air. Good Lord. All right, Karibu Sana, the hashtag is one in the morning, and my good name is Brian Sankwen. As always, interact with us and let us know where you're watching us from. And once again, we've posted a question down, letting you know that who is your favorite entrepreneur that you'd like to be interviewed right here on the show. I definitely like to hear another comment from you as we never get through this conversation. And live in studio with us, we have a very powerful guest who's going to take us through the journey of travel pranorship. If you have no idea what that is, it's going to paint for us a panoramic view. He is Philip Hamad. He is the CEO of Milestone Tours and Travel. Karibu Sana, Philip, even though we got you off guard. All right, so maybe if you were to tell us a little bit story about your journey before you even settled on coming up with this powerful foundation, the CEO of Milestone Tours and Travel.  So I'm an engineer by profession. But since I was a little kid, I have been into traveling. So I think last year was the day that I was just sitting around with my friends. We had gone to Mombasa. So we usually traveled a lot. So that day we were sitting with my friends and then we just asked ourselves, we traveled a lot. And why don't we use this opportunity to make also others feel like they want to explore the country. So the moment we came from Mombasa, we came back to Nairobi. We had a meeting, consulted with our friends. We decided to do the paperwork from the company. I think that's how we started. So it's already registered to us? Yeah, it's a registered company. Everything is intact. Does the name also mean something? Yeah, Milestones, the meaning of Milestones is like we can say like a big step. So if we use, we decided to use the name Milestones because we were looking at ourselves like we want to come to the industry and make a very big change to the industry. So that's why we decided to call it Milestones because it is bringing a change to this industry. We are six months old, but the things we have done within the six months, it's a lot. Yeah, and maybe you'll talk about those things that you've done as well or the achievements you managed to record. Now for anybody who's watching and maybe later on, there are two other conversations that like to connect and maybe get to see the packages that you offer. If maybe you were to highlight them specifically in terms of the integrities, what are they? What? The packages that you offer. Okay, okay. So we have a lot of packages. Currently we have Masayimara packages. We have Dubai packages. We have Diani packages, South Coast, North Coast. So like we have for now, we also have another one for February, the Valentine's edition. Valentine's is loading. Yeah, Valentine's is loading. For the ones who, the loved ones, we have one in Arusha. We are going to Arusha also for the loved ones. And then we have, I think we have, there are lots, but the few that I've mentioned, I think those are the main ones currently. Maybe if you are not to just break it, you know, you've just said Naivasha, Dubai. So what is in the Naivasha package? If for example, a client is coming to Milestone and they want to go to Naivasha, like you said, if you want to break it down, also in terms of pricing, what is in there for them? Oh, for the Naivasha package. And maybe also Dubai, like all of them, the ones you mentioned there. Okay, so like for the Naivasha package, we have like the, we have some hotels in Naivasha that we are working with. So like we do like a full board, full board basis. So which means that when you pay, the amount that you pay will cater for your transport, for your food. That's breakfast, lunch, supper. So if you're staying for two days, that will cater for everything for the two days. And then for, apart from the food and then, so if you, if you need to do some other activities, like maybe you want to do the spa, you want to do, maybe you want to go to the national park, maybe you want to visit some places, all those we include in the, in the budget. But you know, we always do, we don't have a specific rate because, you know, different people have different, everybody has a different way of doing things. So you may, you may, you may get someone who wants to go to the hotels, but stay in the hotel the whole day. But the others who want to go there and then maybe in the afternoon, they want to visit the national park. They want to go somewhere else, you see. So every package is tailor made. Whatever you ask for. If you want, if you want transport, we provide transport. If you don't want transport, we want to provide transport. If you want accommodation, we provide accommodation. Like everything is tailor made, according to your budget. According to the client's budget.  Right. So we do every budget according to what the client wants. All right. So we don't have a specific, a specific rate for, for the client, for every package. Yeah. So roughly for, let's say Dubai, or rather, let's come back to Kenya cost. You mentioned Diani. Yeah. If somebody will reach out and maybe they want to go to Diani, roughly how much could it cost? So like for Dubai, for Diani, if you're going for maybe like three days, two nights, and you are going like in a four-star hotel. Right. That may cost you like around 28,000. Right. 28,000 roughly. Yeah. That's if you are like a couple. Right. Yeah. That may cost you like 28,000. Yeah. That's a four-star hotel. Close to around 200 years dollars up to 50. Yeah. 200 dollars. Yeah. 200 dollars. Yeah. So Dubai, Dubai, we also, we are offering also another package for Dubai. Dubai, it goes for around a thousand dollars for Dubai. That's around five days, four nights. Yeah. That's a good one. The Dubai one. Yeah. A very good one. Yeah. A very good one. So like our package. But does it include flight visa? Everything. That's everything. This means you also in touch with stories, migration services and what not. We do everything. We do like from visa applications to ticket booking. We do also SGR bookings. Right. We do like team buildings. Yeah. We also do activities like hiking. The other day, like the other day, the last weekend. Right. We were in Kilimambogo. So we did like a new year. It's more like a fitness. Yeah. You see like the way people start the year with. Yeah. So get it. The fitness spirit. Or the likes of ziplining. Yeah. No, but that one was hiking. Oh, this one was hiking. Yeah. We hiked Mount Kilimambogo like that. That was like 2,800 meters. Yes. That's high. Yeah. That's very high. So we have a lot of options that you can, you can explore from us a lot. Yeah. But your industry is a lucrative industry. And when you, I don't want to get into the statistics is who is what the current Cabinet Secretary is doing about stories, a wildlife tourism and travel or the rest of the hospitality. But that industry provides a lot of opportunities, including the hospitality as well. So for you guys at Milestone, have you managed maybe to employ a certain number of young men and women and given them opportunity? If yes, how many and how are you managing that even with the networking aspect? So what I can say, Milestone, we are like now six months old. Right. So within the six months that we have been working, we have managed to employ like eight people now currently. Right. So the eight people are, we have like the social media guys. Right. We have the, we have an office. So we have also the secretary. Where are your offices located? Vupak Towers. Vupak Towers. Yeah. Vupak Towers. Okay. So currently we have managed to employ like eight people, but due to the harsh conditions that are we have been facing currently, we could have managed to employ more, but the conditions currently are, you know, even the park fees. Right. Park fees, the height almost doubled. Yeah. Yeah. So things have been very hard. Yeah. Currently the industry is, is a bit hard. Yeah. But we are just trying, we are trying, we are trying our best. You're surviving. The economy, they're saying the economy is very, very, very tough. Yeah. The economy is very, very tough, but we hope, we hope maybe in the future, maybe things will be, things will be good. Absolutely. Things are going to get from better to best. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Now still at your company, maybe in terms of now resources that, or the facilities that you guys are using to aid, maybe do you have cars, do you have, what did they say, what did they call this? Like sales attendant, you've mentioned you have a digital guy or a social media guy in terms of all those, and much more. Maybe what are they that you are using in terms of also outreach and clientele? So for the cars, we currently have only three cars. Six month three cars. That's a company that's doing well. So that's why I told you the company is called Milestones, because I told you we are having to bring the change that the industry needs. Right. See, so currently we have three cars and among the three cars, those are the cars that we use to, maybe if a client wants to go to the National Park, we use that car. If a client wants to go for maybe like transfers from airports to the hotel, we have cars also, like the VIP cars that we can use when a client comes from, maybe like someone was from abroad, comes to the airport, we pick him from the airport, take him to the hotel, from the hotel, maybe if he wants to do some errands, we also use that car. VIP treatment. VIP treatment. So we are trying to, as much as possible, to make everybody feel like he can afford to travel. Yes. See, so many people say that traveling is expensive, what, what, but we are trying to come up with packages that everybody will feel comfortable, even the common monainchi will feel very comfortable to travel. See like now if we give you an offer like to go to Dubai, right, five days, four nights, and we charge you only a thousand dollars. See, and we have catered for your transfers, we have catered for your tickets, we have catered for your accommodation, your food, everything. So you see that's a very good, a very good offer. It's a good package, yeah. A very good offer. So people should be running to your, to your, to your booking sites. They should be rushing very fast. They should be rushing very fast. Yeah, we have very good offers by the, right, incredible. Now you mentioned milestone bringing change. Maybe are there gaps that you guys have identified in these six months? Six months is a, six months is a good amount of time, even in a career, even in a job, to identify some of the hits and the misses in that place. Maybe are there any so far that you've identified in your, in the tours and travels industry, that maybe as a milestone, you're coming into fear. And as much as now you're creating opportunities given eight guys, you know, a job, that's employment, which is like one of the biggest vision for each and every, maybe company to innovate, to create opportunities. Yeah. Are there any so far that you've seen? So the gaps that we have seen so far, there is this thing that nobody, nobody in the tour industry has done. We had, we have, we have come up with an idea.  Right. See, so we have come up, we have like two bikes. Off-road bikes, not sport bikes, the off-road bikes. So with those two off-road bikes, that's what we use for the, like when you're going to, there are people who like to do the off-roading, like in the mountains. There was Zungus and also some Kenyans also. We have tried that and we have seen that some people are starting liking the idea, because like for our locals, that was the day we took some people for the off-roading. Right. We take them to the mountains with the bikes. So we have seen that the people have liked that idea. Yeah, they're starting to, to want to do the, the biking stuff. You know, there's nobody in the industry who does the biking stuff. And we are coming up with that idea.  Somebody can drive you to the, if you want to go to the mountains, you want to go to the forest. You know, the bikes can maneuver anyway. So if you want to do all that stuff, all the packages will be there. That's what we have noticed. None of the, none of the, none of the tourist companies have done that. Okay. And that's what we want to bring. Right. And I trust it's going to be big as well. All right. Before you tell us maybe, roughly what is the lowest amount a client can get from you? Maybe if you can tell us in terms of competition so far, but let me say this healthy competition and this unhealthy competition. Maybe who are your competitors that, and maybe have they enhanced even your vision in terms of now expanding your franchise and your business? If you're comfortable to maybe name a few or just roughly code it. I think we are our own competition. You are your own competition is that self for a business?  My next neighbor should be making me run away. You know, if you, if you, if you look at your neighbor, you'll have a lot of pressure. Yeah. That will keep you in check for business. Yeah.  At the moment you want to do what you can't do, things will, you'll start, things will start falling apart because you'll start seeing like you're not doing what you have to do. Yeah. So you'll start feeling like, you'll start feeling like your things are going, are going to fall down. You see. So I think you need to, you have to set your goals. If you set your goals right, you set your vision right. If everything is right within yourself, yeah, I think that's the most important competition. All right. Good. Yeah. Next question is who are maybe your comeback? There's, there's one of the guests who are interviewed here. I think she has a mini shop at Sarit Center and she was, it's a popcorn business. She's one of the owners and she was telling me that her clients are return clients. Like a client came, bought the product and then told another. So that cycle of CloudTel is like a community.  They're giving you a shout out. Some of them are checking up on you, personally have you. Yeah. So I think the first clients that we had, those are the clients that have made the milestones to become big. Now that the way it is now.  Most definitely, if you hear someone wants to travel, you'll always refer him to me. So that's what we have been doing. From the first day we started their business, we have been giving people very, very good offers. Even in the beginning, we were giving people offers. Even we were not even, we didn't have profits in the beginning. I'll ensure you guys have managed to at least record some profit. Yeah. As of now, the last like two months, at least you have managed to record some profits. Because previously we were trying to pull clients. So we didn't, we were not putting like a profit margin very high. Even the profit margin, the first time our profit margin was zero. What you are doing, you are giving clients like everything that the client will need, that's what you'll pay. But for us, we were not adding any profit margin for ourselves. For the first four, like four, three months. So from there, that's when people are seeing that our offers were very good. So they started referring us to the other clients. So until now, we have heard like, the clientele base has become very big. And how is your customer-client relationships so far? The customer-client relationship is perfect. Because all our clients, I think we, all our clients, we have trained them. We shall tell all our staff, we have trained them. We shall tell the staff, the client is always right. The client is always right. Because even if something happened, and they, even if something happened, the client, the client always, the client always is right. You see? Yeah, there's just clients who are rowdy. Personally, I'm sure even in a shop, you've gone to pick some two, three, a supermarket or a mini shop. That just the treatment, you're like, where are you having a bad day or something? There's those instances, organically, they pop up. They have to pop up, but you also have to bear with the clients.  So even if the client is rowdy, you have to take him slow. If something happened, even if the clients, maybe you know, sometimes you can even, you can even book for someone and then the client refuses to pay. And you have already contacted the hotel, you have contacted your transport team, you have told them to do this and this and this, and then the client refuses to pay. So what do you do from there? But how did you guys deal with such? So you see now, that's where you have to be patient. This industry, you have to have a lot of patience. Because the moment the client does that, you have to, like for us, if a client books and then he does not pay on time. We usually talk to the client, we tell him, okay, you have not paid, but we have also another offer, a cheaper one. Maybe the client was not comfortable with the previous offer. So we have to give him another offer. Another option. We tell him, this is another option, you can still pay. You can't just talk to a client the way you want. You see? Customer-client relationship is very, very important. And I love that because even for any business, the main reason for a business here is you're doing returns and you're interacting with your audience, or your target audience and your customers. And that's why it's important to build the community. The last guest I interviewed last Tuesday here, she's from, I think she owns a paint, paint something company, paint mixing company. And she pointed out a place where the government is coming in to regulate her industry. And I also maybe will want to shift that to maybe, I don't know who is your regulator, but in any industry, there's always a regulator, but let's not get into the integrity so far. Maybe from your six months of being in the industry, have you observed any favorable conditions that the current, I'll say regime, or the current government that has put in place that maybe are favorable to your business, or they're also not favorable. Because when you look at it also, the state of politics, or the political nature or ecosystem of a country has a massive effect on business operations. And you can date it back to even to 2022, during the previous last year, last year about one's election. You saw how businesses were. And also during COVID-19, the pandemic time, you saw how businesses were. And it's again now shifting, now this is 2024. I don't know from where you sit and what you've observed. What are the favorable and not favorable? So starting with the not favorable, I can say that the government has really hiked PACFIS. No, like now for let's say Masayimara, if you want to go to Masayimara, PACFIS has hiked like three times. It was previously it was 1,000. So now it's 3,000. Because of the hike, if you previously, when you are quoting for a client, you see that's a difference of 2,000. So if a client has like a family of five, so for the 2,000, it will be a difference of 10,000. So if you quote for somebody, you give him like something like it has risen to more than 10,000. That's on the PACFIS. Okay, come to the petrol. See for the last one year, petrol has been hiking. So when the petrol hikes also transports to Masayimara will definitely hike. But prices dropped last week though. No, five shilling, only five shilling. It's still an impact. But let's take an example like where you live. When you're coming to town, you are paying 100 shillings, for example. So even if the price is reduced by five shillings, the price of the matat will still remain 100 shillings. So until maybe the price of the fuel will drop by maybe like 20 shillings, maybe that's when things will start coming down. So when the petrol also hikes, transport to Masayimara will go higher. The PACFIS will go higher by 10,000. Maybe petrol, because of the petrol, maybe also the price will go high by 5,000 maybe. You see, so if you give a client like a quote more than 15,000 with the previous quote that you had given him maybe a year ago, some clients will give you the prices. The way you know the economy, the way it is. So after the prices, the government should check on the PACFIS. So the PACFIS, I'm trying to understand it. Is it Entrance Fee? Yeah, Entrance Fee, that's Entrance Fee.  It was previously 300, but now it's going up to 500. You see, that's only PACFIS. You can get two courgettes too. Exchange of courgettes, that's your 500 dimension. So from there, that's the story. So after the prices, hiking of the PACFIS, Okay, the favourables? Favourables currently sit down. I've not seen any favourables. I've not seen any favourables, but we as milestones, we are trying to create the favourables by giving people pocket-friendly prices. That's a great one. Yeah. That's a great one. Yes. So if the government was to do something to help the tourism industry, it's only checking at the prices of the PACFIS and also maybe the fuel prices. Because fuel is everything in the country. Fuel is everything. And for us, the tourism industry is all about transport. It's moving from the hotel to the park, from the park to maybe running errands. Like everything involves fuel. So fuel and PACFIS. Short energy and transport. All right, let's shift gears. Maybe to, let's say, the country in general, you might think you've visited every place in this country until you go to some places in the interiors and they're like, wow, there's a whole new world here. Maybe if you were to point out to our viewers who are watching, their favourite maybe could be destination or just visiting in a day or just going to have fun or just take a look as well or even study. Thanks to National Geographic. Sometimes they give us places. You're like, this place is in Kenya and I've never been there and I stay around. So maybe for you guys at Milestone, have you identified some of the maybe favourite holiday destinations as well as just places to visit that you could point out? You guys check these places out to just market the country. So Kenya weather is very beautiful. And even you, whatever you have explored in Kenya is like maybe 10% or even less. Because Kenya is big, we have a lot of places that are very nice. So beginning with, there's a place in Kilimambogo. It's called the Getaway Resort. That place is very beautiful. It's like a place, a house built between in the middle of wilderness. How's the landscape there? And maybe what do you think makes it attractive? Or a perfect holiday destination? What makes it attractive is that it's somewhere above the vegetation. And the whole place around it is just vegetation. If you go to that place, I would like you to visit the place. You know, when I say it, you can't get the picture. You have to get the picture when you're there. But Getaway Resort, it's called the Getaway Resort. You see even the name Getaway. It's somewhere quiet, very quiet. What you can only hear is the birds, only the birds.  It's a very nice place. So another place, we have also the somewhere called the Nkassiri. It's in Kajadu. Kajadu County. How's the landscape there? It's like a fun area. Is it dry? It's dry. It's also dry. I think people are now investing in the dry areas. Because I think the dry areas they give, like the landscape there is flat, very flat. So like in Nkassiri, the landscape is flat, and then we have like a hill. So Nkassiri is on top of the hill. So in Nkassiri, we have like a lot of activities. There are small huts where people sleep. Where people sleep are not the normal houses. The small huts, triangular huts, wooden. So that's where you sleep. For the wooden huts, you're not paying normal prices like for the normal houses. Because the wooden huts, they are very, very comfortable. So we have like the huts, we have a lot of activities. We have high ropes. We have the planning. We have swimming. And there are a lot of activities you can do there.  Also another place in the forest. It's called Jinnikabi. I don't know if you have heard of it. No, I've never heard of it. I've never heard of Jinnikabi. I'll find out. Yeah, you have to look at that place. Jinnikabi is in the forest. So in the forest we have paramilitary activities.  All the activities that the military do. You climb ropes. You go along the, they don't know what they're called. But everything that the military does, you'll do there in Jinnikabi. It's like a military camp. Yeah, literally it's like a military camp. You have a waterfall. So in the waterfall you have like a, you can do like activities along the waterfall. There is a rope that you, you can be carried with a rope. You're taken from one side of the waterfall to the other side of the waterfall. It's very good. It's a very good place. I think you have to, you'll have to. Maybe you'll give us a list and then, because now you guys are like now an expert in tourism and travel. And I can't wait for you guys to be nominated, because that industry is a really big industry. Very big, very big industry. Yeah, do you think maybe there are places in Kenya that maybe are under visited? And if you guys now coming in the market, you're going to push the envelope even further? Yeah, you know, like Kenyans, most Kenyans, they have that mentality. Like, you know, like if you have noticed at the end of the year, most people like always want to go to the coast. Yeah, because of the sandy beaches. Because of the sandy beaches, but they have, it is just exaggerated. You think so? Ah, it's very exaggerated. We have places when you go along, when you're going to, along this road, going to Ethiopia. First, Isiolo. We have very beautiful places. People should, should try and look into those places. Because many people have that mentality like Mombasa, with the beaches. No, no, no, no, try and look into these other places. This side going to Ethiopia, Pastisiollo. They have very good places. We also have national parks along that road, but many people don't know. Have you tried Nairobi as well? Have you taken clients to Nairobi National Park? Yeah, Nairobi National Park we do like every weekend we do. We do, we do visits to Nairobi National Park every weekend with a land cruiser. There's this place, it's very common with the Wazungus, also Kenyans. Giraffe Mana, is it? The Giraffe Mana Center where people go to feed the giraffes. Oh, Giraffe Center. Yeah. Yeah, Giraffe Center. Is it also part of the places you guys have taken clients to as well? Yeah, we have taken, but Giraffe Center, mostly we take people like families. Because of the children, it needs maybe children. But for the grown-ups, people like maybe you, we take mostly they go to Nairobi National Park. And that we do like every weekend, every Sunday. We take people to Nairobi National Park. Right. We have also done the Giraffe Center. We have done the forest, Tarura Forest. We do all those, even in Nairobi. But many people, I want people to change the notion of the Mombasa thing. Yeah, actually it's big. That notion for the Mombasa thing is very exaggerated. You can even go to Nakuru, is it? Yeah, even Naivasha and Akuru, we have very beautiful places. Yes, exactly. Very, very beautiful places. But I think people have just put the mentality that Mombasa is the only the destination. Because of the Indian Ocean and the weather. Of course, you can't compare with Mombasa and with Naivasha. Or even also with Nairobi, there's totally different places.  And it even mentally records. True, true, true, true. So far, have you identified that there's something that's missing in Kenyans, especially when it comes to historian tours and traveling? In Kenyans? Yes, they need to know. They need to know something that you guys have seen. In the tours industry? Yes. Kenyans, Kenyans, Kenyans. All right, let me simplify it. Maybe an age bracket also, but it will be another question. Anyways, maybe in terms of age bracket, how many Kenyans have you recorded that love to travel? Or is just general? So currently, the age bracket that loves to travel is between 16, 17 to up to 40, up to 40, that's the age bracket that is traveling a lot. So from 40 to 60, most of them are out of Oshago. And also those that are walking, because you can't just pull up and say, I want to come to Milestone and a book of light to dear, you must have the money, right? Yeah, we also have the option for Lepam Dogum Dogo. See, let's go to Presayote.  You can always deposit as low as you want. At the end of the day, come on back when it's December, holiday come as I. So you can start from now, Mia El Fumoja. Right. And it's guaranteed. Yeah, it's guaranteed. It's guaranteed. So the moment you finish your payments, we just come on back when I'm on bus, I'm at Diani. Yeah. Just from as early as now. Because our packages are not even expensive. Right. Yeah, the packages are very cheap, very cheap. So you can go to El Fumoja every month. At the end of the year. Maybe to go back to the question I had asked you earlier, maybe in terms of educating Kenyans on cultivating and inculcating the travel culture, what do you think maybe can be done to ensure that, you know, you know, at least get out no place. You could be staying at a place and you're seeing it on National Geographic and you have no idea that this place exists where I stay. So how can we make Kenyans love traveling? So for us, how we can make the Kenyans love traveling is first things, Kenyans, we can make Kenyans love the money. So the moment we make our prices due, we're not interested in traveling. So since we're in the industry, we're not interested in traveling. After my mother passed away, we're not interested in traveling. Like the other day, we had a hike in Kilimambogo and we were only charging 1,300. For how many days was that? So CC, we're almost charging, our other competitors will charge almost double of our amount. We're not double, more than double because others were charging 3,002 Kilimambogo. CC, we said we want everybody to travel as much as possible.  We were only charging 4,000 due to 1,300. We also have Waze. So what we're trying to do is to give them the experience of traveling. What is all about traveling? The moment we're in the industry, we're not interested in traveling. It's the first time we're in the industry. We're not interested in traveling. It's 50-50 something. And we're not interested in traveling. We're not interested in traveling. We're not interested in traveling all our lives. We're not interested in traveling. So from that day on, every trip that you're having as a milestone, please inform me. So that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to say, who's going to be involved? Who's going to be involved? Who's going to be involved? Even if you're on a trip, you're going to be comfortable. Very comfortable. Who's going to be involved? There's money. The money you have, the money you have. Who's going to be involved? So what I can say is to travel industry, what they have to do, at least to your notion, is to travel more. We have to regulate the prices. Because most people want to have prices due, apart from a lot of profits. So if you want to have prices due, on a discourage, you have to from traveling. So the moment you put the prices you can't afford, you don't have any reason to travel. That's on pricing. Another one. That's on pricing. That can make Kenyans love traveling. And also here, maybe like Y254, you have to put like some shows. You know, many people, many people, what we're going to do on TV. So when you put shows, like the Nat Geo, whatever, it was a wild animals. Right. Like it's easy to come to Russia. But you give us an opportunity to advertise ourselves. Yeah.  So the next time, I'm going to be happy. I'm going to be happy. So I'm going to be advertising myself as an idea. The moment I'm going to advertise, maybe I'm going to channel you. Right. I'm going to be thinking about what I'm going to do. And what I'm going to do is, I'm going to be like, hey. You know, they... It creates the awareness. Yeah, the media, media is a very big, is a very big contributor to a lot of things. I'm going to ask you, sometimes, I don't know if there are any regulations that I'm going to do. There are some things you can't do on air. I mean, there are some news that you can't put on air. Okay. And because it reaches a lot of people. Yeah. So the moment when I cut two things like the travel industry, those things will encourage a lot of people. What would I travel? Sanma. Yeah. Yeah. And also the fitness part. A lot of people want to travel, I could travel J.U.F. fitness pier. Yeah. Like, since I come to Menda hiking, we did like 2,800 kilometers. Right. What we want to do, what we want to do is to burn. All right. The moment when I'm 2,800 kilometers walking, that's a lot of calories you've burned. So what we're going to do is, we're going to be on the fitness aspect here. Right. Yeah. So anyway, if it comes to any, those are the things that I think we can do to at least encourage people or travel. Yeah. Okay. Also, when you look at communities in terms of interaction, you realize when we go to Mombasa, we definitely would talk with you. Okay. Say, oh, in the arts and you've learned that so Helicats and also the so Helifood and everything that people at the cost do. It's just amazing. Like, there's a wow factor to it sometimes. So a lot of people that are not curious about just, you know, knowing what's happening in Kazeado. Yes, you stay in Karen, but can you try and know what's happening in, you know, in Bungoma? Yes. You stay in Mombasa. Can you travel to Nakuru and see what's happening in my version, the region? So I think that curiosity also will help to just, like, get, lose the old ideas you have.  They have fear. Oh, I'll go to Uttarift Valley. I will fall. Yeah. Like, there's some limiting factors, mental as well. So I wish people would also, you know, get the fact that, you know, going to a different place to not change what you believe. Yeah, yeah, true. Belief systems can really limit people. Yeah, true, true, true. Okay. Now, this is on local travel. Now, maybe if we can talk about international travel a little bit. Maybe other things that you guys have seen and also that you guys are working on to expand your franchise that at some point you might go international. Do you have that vision on board already? So we are just looking forward to. We are already international. We are already international. But international in the aspect of East Africa. Yeah, still international. That's international. Still international. So currently we are East Africa, we are doing very great. They, I think the most, the farthest point we have done is Dubai. Okay. Yeah, farthest point we've done is Dubai.  So I think we are doing very, we are doing very great. Actually, I would say for a new company, six months, you guys have achieved a lot because when you look at even startups that have spent six months in the market, they're still in their baby step. Exactly, exactly. You're trying to figure out, you know, getting to know your clientele. Yeah. You know, also pulling together resources. Yeah, sure. It seems like you guys are really powered up. I have a very good team. A very good team. The team that you're working with, I think is the one that pushes you to do good things. So currently, East Africa, we've done like Rwanda, we've done Uganda, Tanzania. Managed to go to Rwanda as well. Yeah, we've gone to Rwanda. We've taken even clients to Rwanda. Right, via flight? No, they were going via bus. Transit bus. Yeah, they went via transit bus. We also took clients to Tanzania. That was in, we went to Moshe, then from Moshe to Arusha, then from Arusha to back to Kenya. That was in New Year. Towards the beginning of 2024. Yeah, towards the beginning of 2024. We are actually on week two or three. Yeah, we are on week two or three. So I think we, so in the next like one year or so, I think we will have, we will have done, we will have toward the continent a lot. Yeah, the president's move to have East Africa vis-à-vis country. And in fact, it's all African countries now. Is it in any sort of way given a facelift to your experience on the market? Currently, the vis-à-vis for the first time, it was a bit a tassel kidoba. It was at the airport. There was a time, the first time, the president ultimately removed it from work. Yeah. So the first time to remove it. And then it affected international travel as well. Yeah, it affected a lot. Because they were to wait for the electronic authorization. They were coming, others even went back. Others even went back, imagine. So they were coming to the airport in Africa. Mahali, things were not working. Then they had to, they had to even go back. But currently, things now on the Saiziko server. So the government has worked on that. So now for the African countries, if you're from Africa, anywhere from Africa, you can come to Kenya vis-à-vis a free. Yeah. Do you think that's going to help your industry? Yeah, it's going to help our industry so much. So much. Because... In what ways? Because now, even someone from South Africa who wants to come to Kenya, you know, even looking for a vis-à is very stressful. Yeah. Vis-à is very stressful. At that time, if you're looking for a vis-à, you have to come to Mahali. If you're looking for a vis-à, you have to take almost even two weeks, three weeks, looking for the vis-à. So someone from South Africa, at that time, if you're looking for a holiday in Kenya, at that time, if you're looking for a holiday in Kenya, you have to come. Right? Yeah. So if you're looking for a vis-à, if you're looking for a vis-à, you can come to Kenya. You can come to the two companies. Right? You can come to Zumbusha around Kenya. But if you're looking for a vis-à, you have to come. At that time, if you're looking for a vis-à, you have to come. It's easier for him to decide to come. Right? So at that time, if you're looking for a vis-à, the moment PSCC is going to benefit from them, you have to come to customers. Yeah, exactly. So the vis-à is free. You have to have ideas on it. Right. Do you think we are good at importing services or exporting now in your industry? Because I'd also like to see, you know, South Africans come to Kenya to view our giraffe. But South Africa is one of the most marketed to African tourism destination country. South Africa, the way they do their TV, radio, adverts, and even if you look at a round-up of their media stations, the way they have their documentaries, they talk about their wildlife and their travel industry loudly as compared to maybe other countries. And that's why we have a lot of Wazungus going there. So do you think for us here in Kenya, we are good at exporting travel or importing travel? A lot of people would prefer to go outside Kenya or come into Kenya. So the problem with Kenyans is near to Wakenyan or Dijitambo? You think so? Yeah. Wakenyan, I know, Wakenyan or Dijitambo. You know, for Kenyans, they prefer to go to Tanzania or South Africa. I don't know, I don't know. Which is your best holiday destination? Would you like to go to Italy? No, I wouldn't go to Italy. No, I don't think I'll go to Italy. But it's all right. Yeah. So the point I'm trying to give you is that many Kenyans would want to go to Dubai or would want to go to... Santorini. Yeah, Santorini, Italy. Bahamas. Bahamas, yeah. So Kenyans, nearly all the Dijitambo they have in Kenya, we have a lot in Kenya. Like any Kenyans, they prefer to go out. What makes them, though? Because I can only imagine if you hate your country and want to go to another. They're not hating, but they don't know what we have. All right. So that awareness part, like you said... That awareness part is very important. Many Kenyans don't know what we have in Kenya. I don't agree because there's a term... There's a term, there's this place in Kaka-Mega. I think they had... There's a place called Liranda. They had something called a crying stone. Liranda. And it also, yeah, it dates back to stories during the colonial time. I didn't even know that place was in Kaka-Mega. Exactly. Because nobody has ever talked about it or even marketed it. Exactly. You only know less than 10% of Kenya. Less than 10%. I don't know if it's 5% or not. I'm a less than that. Because Kenyans don't know what we have. They don't know the treasures that we have in Kenya. A lot. Yeah. We might travel easy countries. Yeah, I've been even to Giraffe. What we have here in Kenya, they know. Kenya is very beautiful. Kenya, we have a lot of things. Right, absolutely. Yeah. So I think the awareness part. We have to look into the awareness part. Okay, and I think people like you now in the markets will be doing that for us. We are coming. We are coming. We will work on that. Yeah, my second and last question before we exit. Maybe what do you think are the selling points for Kenya in terms of travel? Both local, domestic, and now international travel? The selling points? Selling points. Definitely, selling point for Kenya is wildlife. Wildlife plays a very big part in the tourism part. Yes. Also, apart from the wildlife, we also have the landscape. Right. See, like the view point. So wildlife, the landscape of Kenya, what we have in Kenya, the culture, those are the key points that boost our tourism industry. What about the world's best migration? That's the wildlife. That's the, even the, that's the Musaimara now, the wildebeest migration, yeah. Even the wildebeest migration. When the wildebeest migration time, the wildebeest, there are more than four times like, than the normal time. So in Manichaea, wildebeest migration plays a very big part in the tourism industry. Also the coast. Coast also plays a very big, big part in the tourism sector. Right. You coast, come to Kenya and end the coast. In Manichaea coast, after a long time. It's something special. Something special with the coast, yeah. Do you imagine? You see the weather, the ocean, all that is something in its own. Right. Which is an incredible thing because, like you said, you just, wherever you stay is where you stay, but just try to find out what's happening in the next. That's very important. The neighboring community. So like people like, I'm insisting on the, on your channel. I think you have to put a segment like the segment, like where you can promote the tourism industry. So you can put a segment like where you show like what we have in Kenya. Like a different show, like a show on its own. You show like, maybe you have like maybe one person who travels around the country. The person. We have that. We have that. It's just that you have to pay for it. No problem. We can do that. We can do that. No problem. All right. Lastly, we are exiting. What is the peak season for the six months you've been in? Have you identified peak season for travel? Yeah. Peak season is Wildebeest migration. The December holidays. And also Valentine's. Those are the major peak seasons per day. Valentine's, Wildebeest migration, and December holidays. But the industry throughout the year, it's not bad. For now, at the moment, how is the space? It's all over the school fees. So, now things are getting better. Right. Yeah. But they are picking on February. Must be many Valentine's. Yeah, from January, maybe end of January. Pressure in a sub-side. Pressure in a sub-side, what else I could travel. All right. The last question, for anyone who's watching, maybe, what is the tiniest of packages that they could get, the cheapest, and maybe the biggest as well? Smallest tiniest and the biggest of the packages you offer to them, and then you'll tell them what they can find you. Smallest package, we have one in Naibasha for two days, three nights. That goes for how much? That goes for 14,000. And we have another one in the highest now, the highest package. The highest package, I think, the highest for now is Dubai. Right. Yeah. Dubai, that one, is a thousand dollars. Right. Yeah. Okay. So, my partner, so, if maybe somebody wants to travel with you this December, next month, we'll have a Semites Valentine's. How can they book? Where can they find you? Do you have a number of websites? You can talk to them here. And also, what exactly is the advantage of them experiencing travel with you? You can share it with them shortly here. Or now? Yes, now, because we are leaving. We are exiting the show. We are done. So, I think they can find us on our social media pages, milestones, Instagram, milestones, underscore tours, underscore. And also, we have contacts, the business number for the, business number is 0714, 049806. I think they need to book with us because we provide the best quality services. And also, we give our all in providing our services. Yeah. So, sir, thank you so much. Philip Hamad, he's the CEO of Milestone Tours and Travels. Speaking to us about travel entrepreneurship, and I perfectly understand that you guys love this conversation. And you know, if you want to travel from now till February, or literally the end of the year 2024, you know who to talk to right here. And that marks the end of this session right here. As always, the hashtag is going in the morning at Y2 for 4 Channel, at Brian Saquano on. And that's where you can find me personally. Thank you so much for watching. And we will see you next time right here on Y in the morning.


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