and welcome to Hawaii Food and Farmers series. Thank you Think Tech for Hawaii for giving us this time every Thursday, sometimes every other Thursday. I'm your co-host, Justine Espiritu. This is my co-host, Matthew Johnson. Every week we bring on farmers and local food advocates that are supporting our food system. That includes government agencies, non-profits, chefs, restaurants, other individuals. We bring them on and get their backstory and hear how they're contributing and what kind of support they're giving our local farms. So who are our guests today, Matt? Oh, that I'm really happy you asked. Thanks, Justine. So today's show, as always, is fantastic. And we're talking about two of my favorite topics, conservation and agriculture. So to help us with the conversation today, we have Michelle Gorham from the West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District. Thanks for having me. And then we also have Stephanie Mark from Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council nailed it. All right. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks for having us. Yeah. So let's just get right into it. Michelle, if you can just kind of introduce yourself a little bit and talk about what is the Soil and Water Conservation Districts? Soil and Water Conservation Districts are a kind of quasi-government group with a really, really long name, as you now know. Wow. And what we work to do and what we've worked to do since the late 40s is support farmers through a community means of supporting Soil and Water Conservation practices. So our board of directors is five directors. We have 16 Soil and Water Conservation Districts across the state of Hawaii. And these directors are elected and appointed. And one thing that I think is really, really great is that our volunteer directors for West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District, they have over 200 years of experience farming. Oh, wow. And one of the great things that they do is they provide excellent facts and experience in how to improve farming practices and support healthy soil and healthy water, which supports healthy farms over time. Oh, interesting. So in the Soil and Water Conservation Districts, it's a nationwide program that you said started in the 40s. Yeah, because of the dust bowl. So we lost a lot of high quality and valuable soils. Soil is the foundation of quality agriculture. So when that soil was lost in the dust bowl, the government decided there's something that we need to do here, but there is a distrust in government. And I think we all know that. So how can we build systems of support for farmers that are trusted? Well, you give them the opportunity to have people they trust to provide that support for them. So that's why our directors are elected and appointed. But one of the qualifiers is that they have experience. And so I'm really proud to work for an organization that volunteers their time and supports farmers, especially because I come from a farm myself. I'm a farm kid, seventh generation family farm. So my parents are watching. Hi, mom and dad. Yeah. So that's interesting. So the organization said it's quasi-state, but the volunteer elected directors, they're all pretty much farming or landowners or actually involved with farming themselves. Yes, exactly. Fantastic. So we definitely come back and ask a lot more questions about that. Stephanie, can you introduce yourself a little bit and tell us what is Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council? Absolutely. So I am a conservation specialist with Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council. It's a really long name. I know this. So we go by Oahu RCD or O-R-C-D. So what we do, we work with farmers and landowners to develop conservation plans. So conservation plans help to address natural resource concerns that farmers experience on their land and land managers have to deal with every single day when managing a farm. So we work with farmers to develop these conservation plans that help them with farm profitability, with natural resource stewardship. And we just work island-wide and statewide to promote the wide stewardship of our island resources. OK. So Stephanie, so O-R-C-D is a nonprofit. Yes. And then the West Oahu Solar Conservation District is a quasi-state organization. But you guys are working together. Always. Yeah. So tell us, I guess, talk a little bit more about a conservation plan. So that seems like a big part of how you guys are working with your local farmers. Yeah. So the farmers will come to West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District to become what's called a cooperator. A cooperator is a landowner or a land manager who wants to grade, grab, or stockpile soil. And now we're getting into the legal parts of it. Oh, yeah. And that's a county law. So we're quasi-government. But we provide an alternative to the grading, grabbing, and stockpiling process through what's called an exclusion to permitting by people implementing, developing a conservation plan with O-R-C-D or another key partner. And then what they can do after they develop that plan is implement that plan. And that's implementation phase that's so critical. That's actually required for the exclusion. And one of the things that I think is so valuable is through these best management practices, things like grassed waterways rather than having bare soil on waterways or having things like cover crops rather than soils exposed to the elements and losing that critical topsoil and having it go into our reefs since some other are reefs, they can implement these best management practices, which then have a positive impact on the entire community through healthy waters and healthy soils. So the processes become a cooperator, work with the group that can help you develop a conservation plan. There's a number of them on Island. Stephanie and her team are really excellent at O-R-C-D. And they bring in translators to support our farmers, which is so important right now. And then come back. These are language translators. So somebody in English isn't their first language you will work with organizations to help and translate the programs for them. Wow, awesome. So and just to clarify for a second, this isn't something that every farmer necessarily needs to go through. But it's when you talk about the grading, there's kind of like specific activities that if you're going to be doing this, that's when they have to go to you. And if you can kind of get more specific of what that is. Oh, sure. So the city and county, you should bring them on your show too. And they can talk about this a little bit more in depth. They're on our list. They are. Awesome. Yeah. There is a dedicated team with the Department of Planning and Permitting. So they would be great folks to have on. But grading, grubbing, and stockpiling laws are through every county. And basically, at most farming activities, you're going to be engaging in these types of activities. This is kind of like the grading and grubbing that you were talking about. Yeah, stockpiling. If you're going to have compost, is it going to be in a big pile? There you go. That's stockpiling. Are you going to grade? Are you going to create a farm road so your farm vehicle or your equipment can traverse the road? Well, that's grading. Are you grubbing? So are you going to dig down into the soil? Well, if you're going to be doing that activity, that's grubbing. So these are very, very commonplace practices that take place on farmlands that, if not managed correctly, can have a negative impact. And you want to talk a little bit about some of the practices people can do? Sure. So with a conservation plan, like she's saying, it's a flexible working blueprint for farmers to delineate their conservation practices that they aim to implement with their farming operations. So by showing access roads, by including buffer strips, vegetative barriers that trap sediment before it goes on to a neighboring property, things like windbreaks, grassed waterways, the list goes on and on and on. I could talk forever about conservation practices. So conservation practices. 25 more minutes. Oh, I don't know. Not enough time. Man, I just need my own show. It's about conservation practices. And we can make that happen. The Natural Resources Conservation Service is a federal entity that has all of these conservation practices listed out. It's lots of paperwork, lots of standards and specs. So while who are CND and myself included in that, help farmers translate and understand these standards of why they need a filter strip or why they need to show where an access road may go, how does that limit soil erosion or water runoff on their property. So what it sounded like is you guys are bringing all these different acronyms together and helping a farm navigate their way through a lot of different government regulations so that they can actually do what they need to do to farm. Yeah, helping farmers farm since 1950. That's West O'odham so I like that. I like that. That's good. So because there's county permits that are needed. And then now you've also mentioned USDA as well, the Natural Resources Conservation Services. So they're kind of like the organization that's listing out some of these best management practices. And then I guess they also have, because you're talking before about implementation, because that's probably where a lot of times farms will say, okay, I got a great plan, but some of these practices, you said like grass waterways or windbreaks, probably costs a good amount of money. Yes, absolutely and that's financial resources that not necessarily all farmers have to implement these practices, especially when they're trying to make their farm profitable in the end. Farming is a business and we wanna make sure that farms succeed because in the end we all succeed from that. So with conservation practices implementation, there's many different avenues to get funding. There's so many different funding opportunities for farms. So I'll allow Michelle to talk about EQUIP and NRCS federal funding and then I can talk a little bit more about other avenues to get funding for these practices as well. Yeah.  There are conservation planners, there's a district conservation. This is at USDA. USDA, yeah. And that's one of the acronyms that we help bring together. So there's Farm Service Agency, there's the Natural Resource Conservation Service. Those two groups work in concert to do things like mapping. Because again, mapping is a skill that may take funding or may take resources that your farmer, especially the small farmers don't have ready access to. So they can provide that support for mapping out the farm, which is a critical part of implementing a conservation plan or actually developing that conservation plan. And then what they can do is provide supports for actual implementation. So two things that they really wanted me to share today were high tunnels and the transition to organic plan. Yeah. And so a lot of folks are moving to organic practices, but it's not just a simple thing to do. There are still a number of quality controls that you need to ensure that you have in place in order to have the best impacts possible or the most positive impacts possible on your land, your neighbor's land and the island that supports all of us. So one of the things they have is funding to support transition to organic. And then the high tunnel is a way to kind of get a head start on growing some of your crops by having a more controlled environment. So that process, if you wanna learn more, just shoot me an email and I'll send you some info. Oh, awesome. Yeah. Great. Well, we are gonna take a quick 60 second break and then get right back into it. Thanks. Thank you. Hi, I'm Chris Letham with Think Tech Kauai and I'd like to ask you to come watch my show, The Economy and You, each Wednesday at 3 p.m. Howie Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland here on Think Tech Kauai every Friday at 3 p.m. We address issues and importance for those of us who live here on the most isolated land mass on the planet. Please come join me Fridays at 3 p.m. Mahalo. Hi, I'm Tim Appichella. I'm the host for Moving Hawaii Forward. And the show is dedicated to transportation and traffic issues in Oahu. We are all frustrated by sitting in our cars in bumper-to-bumper traffic. And this show is dedicated to talking with folks that not only we can define the problem, but we hopefully can come to the table with some solutions. So I invite you to join me every Tuesday at 12 noon and let's move Hawaii forward. And we're back to Hawaii Food and Farmer Series. I'm your co-host Matt Johnson. As always, well, pretty much always with Justina Spear too. And today our guest is Michelle Gorham with the West Oahu So-and-Water Conservation District and Stephanie Mark with Oahu Resource Conservation and Development Council. Got him, okay. So we're talking about basically helping farms implement conservation practices on the farm. What was the tagline you said for the SWCD? It was really good. The Hawaii Farmers Farm? Yeah, since 1950. It just made that up on the fly. I'll let you like, how could you forget that already Matt? I'm just trying so hard to remember the name of your organization. So, but yeah, one of the things we were talking about funding and I guess maybe we'll kind of take a step back and I want to talk a little bit more about, so let's say Justine is farming and what does that process look like for her to be able to kind of take advantage of the programs that you guys work with? So I would say the first step is developing a conservation plan with your local Soil and Water Conservation District. That really sets the blueprint for what you aim to do with your farm and your natural resources and how you aim to manage them quote unquote sustainably for not only your farming venture, but also for your neighbor's sake as well. So I would say the first most important step is getting a conservation plan approved by your local Soil and Water Conservation District. That document you can then share with NRCS, the federal, you can share it with the farm service agency. You can share it with the well who are CND and that really shows other entities and other agencies what you aim to do and how we can then fund the practices that you as a farmer intend to implement. So instead of just saying I wanna win break, you actually show me how many linear feet do you want? What kind of tree do you want? Where do you intend to get it? How much is it gonna cost? And we'll say, oh, well we have some funding. I think we can cover 50% of that and help you out and get this process started. So did I just make that more confusing? No, no, it's really good. The one question I have is, so what is a win break? I mean, I can kind of figure out what it is, but like what, so if I'm a farmer, I'm installing a win break, what does that mean? So win break, I'm gonna go back to those NRCS standards that I love so much. Basically win breaks are linear rows of trees that you can use on your farm to slow wind on your property. So that helps with crop protection, but it also allows a privacy screen in case you may have neighbors, you may not get a lot of neighbors, right? So not only, and it also helps with ag theft as well. If you have a dense enough win break or if you have bamboo surrounding your entire property, it can kind of lessen any potential ag theft as well. So with a win break, you have multiple different goals that you can accomplish. A lot of the practices that Stephanie works to with farmers to share and put in their conservation plan have financial benefits as well as environmental benefits. And ideally what the farmer's benefit is either higher yields, which can bring higher returns or lower pests and lower threats. So farm theft, although it's not talked about a lot, it happens all the time. Every single day, three weeks ago, the nicest truck on one of the biggest farms in Oahu was stolen, they can't recover it, I know. And then we were just talking with some farmers that Stephanie is working with on Tuesday. We have our meetings monthly on Tuesdays at 12.30 and her farmers are, this was a Thai farmer and he has a huge problem with people stealing his cucumbers and daikon. They'll walk in with the wheelbarrow and literally steal the vegetables. So we encourage the community to support farmers in farming. We're all talking about how can we be sustainable. Well, one of the most sustainable things we can do is provide systems of support for each other and help each other out. So if you think you see something, then please communicate that. What do they say? See something, say something? Oh, you've got all the taglines on. Thanks, man. So I have a question for you. So in terms of your role and your relationship with the farmers, are these issues and kind of systems and ideas, things that they already have in mind and maybe thinking about it or doing, but they haven't articulated it in a plan that can be kind of presented and funded? Or do you find yourself the resource that is providing these ideas? So a little bit of both, most farmers, actually every single farmer I've worked with has all these great ideas for their farm and obviously they want to protect their soil. That's where they get their farming, their money from. So they already have these ideas of oh, I want to do a windbreak and what if I did rows of trees around the property or what if I did a sediment basin? And I kind of have to bring that optimism down to a realistic level and say, okay, well, do you have the funding? Where do you want to do it? Oh, I don't know. Okay, well, let's figure out a schedule that works for you so that we can make this a reality instead of just these big ideas. Let's put them on paper, make a schedule and then allow you to seek funding because now you have this record of what you aim to do. You have your goal on paper and it makes it more official and allows other people to see the plan that you intend for your farm. So basically with that conservation plan, it just makes it official of all the conservation practices you aim to do. So it's just like a great way to manage your own farm and resources. I think Stephanie really likes her job. I do, I love working with farmers. Yes, we love working with farmers. And so we've talked a little bit about the federal funding provided by NRCS and EQUIP. I know it's alphabet soup. So we are always available by email, just for farmers trying to understand all these acronyms that we're throwing out here today. But with my organization as well as a nonprofit, we offer cost share assistance to farmers and landowners in three specific watersheds currently in Ma'ili-Ili on the west side. We have Wailhole and Ka'alaya on the windward side. So farmers and landowners who are working in these watersheds can apply for cost share assistance and BMP funding with my organization. And so we help them develop that conservation plan and kind of guide them through that whole process. And because we're a nonprofit, we don't have as strict or as many regulations as a federal grant might provide. So it's really a great opportunity. We're looking for farmers who are interested in these kinds of projects or interested in seeking cost share in these specific watersheds. And that's Ma'ili-Ili, Wailhole, and Ka'alaya. Well, so those projects, so instead of just working on like a one-on-one basis with a cooperator or a farmer, landowner, you're actually taking an entire, I guess, watershed approach. And working specifically, because farmers manage larger tracts of land and individuals or small homeowners, we think that by championing the farmers and the large landowners that they can have a greater effect on the watershed. Obviously farming can be intense, but there's also so many practices that we've mentioned today that can mitigate any soil erosion or water runoff. So we work with those farmers knowing that they manage larger tracts of land and can have a bigger impact and be the champions of the watershed restoration efforts. And so a large, I guess a goal of that. So the funding from that is coming from Department of Health? Yeah, so it's a grant originally through the EPA that was then granted to the, excuse me, the Department of Health Clean Water Branch here in Hawaii, which we then sought funding for and were awarded. And now we're passing on that money to the farmers. So you get all your acronyms in one go. You have EPA, to DOH, CWB, to Oahu, R-C-N-D, to the farmers. So we're really, we've offered in this past year, $70,000 in cost share assistance in the Waiohole and Kaalaya watersheds. And now we're beginning phase two and we're looking for more support and more farmers in those watersheds and landowners as well. So why, what is Department of Health? So Department of Health is interested with funding and with the EPA, because they wanna get, you said best management practices on the farms for the purpose of what though, to reduce soil erosion or what's the Department of Health wanna get out of it? So to reduce sedimentation in our water bodies, right? So a little bit what Michelle was talking about earlier, not only to protect our fresh water resources, but our marine resources as well. Conservation practices are not limited to farmers. Anyone can do this on any land. It's simply just purposefully placing plants or using engineering practices that allow less soil to go into our fresh water and ultimately ocean. Which is definitely a huge issue, especially on the windward side, anytime after a big rain. Do you have any success stories or anything where, I mean, I know it's all. Really accomplished. Yeah, oh my goodness. I know it's all success stories, but anything that was, I mean, did you work with any cooperators that weren't really into it, but then after they went through and they were really excited about it. So our phase one, which was then this past year, we've worked with six farmers to develop conservation plans, which were then ultimately approved by the windward O'ahu soil water conservation district. So the opposite to what Michelle is a part of today. Basically, with that, it then delineated which practices they would like to do. So probably a success story that you're looking for is we had one large landowner who had about 15 acres and he wanted to start COA for future timber harvest. So working with Hark and the Manawali station, they were able to install three acres of COA on a huge slope. So they had this tree and shrub establishment that allows for the roots to hold onto the soil. So they had about 30 tons of soil per year being eroded from this slope. That was running into the streams. It was running into the streams. And it's not anything the landowner was doing. This is just because of invasive. It's kind of natural. It's a natural process. And we are trying to work within that natural process to slow it down and halt it as much as we possibly can. Just for our own environmental but economic reasons as well. So with this COA and installing cover crop and using jute matting and erosion sites and all these different practices, we were able to bring that down to just two tons of soil. So you have a 28 ton reduction in just three acres. Wow. See, that's a success story. That's a success story, yeah. So you were mentioning some numbers to me before. How many farms have you guys worked with to make these kind of conservation plans to get these kind of success stories? So I'll speak about a lot who are SD and then ETAG on. So in 2016, we've developed 36 conservation plans. And to give you an idea, usually we've been working really hard and going out there working with farmers. Usually about 10 to 15 are developed per year. So we've been doing as much as possible, hitting the field and being with our farmers. Like I mentioned with that while whole day phase one, we've provided $70,000 in cost share assistance. If you spread that over six farmers, that's a lot of money per farmer. So we're looking for, we have increased funding and we're just looking for the farmers. We want them to apply so we can hand out the money. It's there, just come out and take it for these conservation practices. So while who are SD has been working really hard this year and we hope to continue that momentum and we're always open to talking to farmers. Yeah, and West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District, it's actually a huge district that expands from like Pearl Harbor area, all the way around through the point of Whitenine on a Cooley over to about Turtle Bay. So if you look at that expansive land, that's kind of a walk, it's right back. Yeah, yeah, it's over 9,000 acres of agland just in West Oahu Soil and Water Conservation District alone. And so we have like, I think it's like 990 farmers or something on the island of Oahu. And a ton of them are in West Oahu. So Stephanie and her team at ORCD has been working across the state and of those farmers she's been working with, we have a couple other people who develop plants too. We have a conservation specialist, Poo O'Nana Stippard and she's available to provide services for farmers. She's actually at no cost, she provides statewide support too. But we do have limited capacity and we've had 35 farms come in with over 8,000 acres supporting soil and water conservation practices in our district alone this year, or 2016. Wow, so many success stories, that's awesome. Yeah, we like it. Right on. So that wraps up our time. It's great to hear about these kinds of plans that can support farmers better for the environment, help with their yield. It's great to hear about these resources.


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ollaborative But I I do have some concern about finding that right Level of understanding what data is available The first pass on the question The department compiles statistics themselves on all of these issues The second pass at the question is it's my judgment call is a professional that the time I would spend Compiling statistics is better spent actually doing auditing I understand your concern the difficulty is in in the 35 years I've worked with law enforcement One of the rules I've learned is that their statistics are worthless Not intentionally so but the the classic example is Three different tasing incidents One of which one lead didn't connect and another of which the leads connect and someone was tased once And then at the extreme the leads connect and someone is tased four or five times That gets counted as three And we see that everywhere whether it's the use of a baton The classic one and this is the term that the department uses it is personal body weapons Which is basically hands and feet You can imagine how different those things are So In the first instance if i'm going to pass on if i'm going to do this the statistics It's very time consuming for me because I don't want to add apples and oranges And my concern is I see my time more Valuably spent trying to help make a difference As opposed to documenting what the department's doing the department produces statistics the times That i've gone over their statistics I found that they were accurate other than the concern that I have that they add apples and oranges And it can be very misleading So that that's the reason why it hasn't been a priority for me I appreciate that I will I will take it under advisement that it is a concern What does it mean and that the meanings of the different things are different? I'm looking for example at your page five or in your report You have given us numbers with regard to type of allegation And total sustained unfounded exonerated and inconclusive What I think I am asking is that you tell us Those numbers just as you have willingly provided them here over time So if there was a previous report with this We would see the previous report as well as this one Next year if there is a report we will see this data in next year's report And you will and you will but just so we're clear I watched my appearance from the April 2017 council the weekend before last And I actually made a special trip up here last week and spent the day This is what a day's work is to generate those statistics which I generated myself That's a day that I did not spend reviewing three or four body cam Three or four use of force reviews or three or four citizen complaints I didn't have meetings with anyone to help coach them or anything at all All I did was I spent time with the computer Trying to categorize things and come up with the statistics I'm going to interpret that as a request for either more time or staff help Um Neither next year I will incorporate these statistics and you'll see the statistics for the next year You guys are my bosses I would love to have the time and the ability to do it entirely your way and as well do the things that I'd like to do I don't even get to do all the things that I want to do or feel like I need to do and we can go around the room Council member oliveris made some really good points if I had had more time I should have reviewed more about what the city is doing about the homeless But the difficulty is That I don't have all the information doesn't stop my obligation if it's a really big issue I'm willing to bet to be honest with you that this issue dissatisfies everyone in the community Not just the homeless, but the housed And and the property owners downtown and the business owners because I walk around the city all the time This is this is a problem everywhere If you guys think you're solving it, I don't know what to say So I I feel like there are some times that I need to surface something Even though I don't have all every last bit of the information and it's not squarely in my role I tried to stay in my lane In the one page and one quarter out of 17 pages that are in my report about the homeless Thank you. I'm going to move on to another question I have two areas of particular interest to myself That I'm trying to understand and follow as we move along And I think I have mentioned At least one of these on multiple occasions And that is my concern That there is a conflict of interest within the department in handling domestic violence cases Among other department members And have asked if we couldn't handle this by a method similar to critical incident protocol And for example referring it to marine county um I haven't I haven't heard that we have made any of those changes yet And I was hoping to see in your report some information about that I appreciate that this is a very difficult conversation And this may not National statistics may not apply to our department. Our department may be significantly different from national statistics National statistics would indicate that there are some cases And that so i'm concerned about how we are handling those cases internally And if you can clarify for me because I didn't see in the report anything about domestic violence in particular domestic violence internal to the department Councilmember combs, I think I can answer the question if we have indication that an officer or an employee is involved in a criminal conduct We refer it to another agency generally for investigation Okay, have we done that? Have we done that? We have done it in the past. Okay. Thank you. And we've handled cases I've asked it before and that's not the answer I got Right, and we've handled cases for other agencies in the past also. Okay. Thank you. I'm really glad to hear that We've made that adjustment Also the other the other area of concern Has to do with how we work with the district attorney with regard to rape cases And how many of those go through the process and and we actually Get somewhere And I can't look at the report and tell how we're doing with with that that area of enforcement And I don't know how to ask for that information I don't obviously I don't want to violate any any Confidentiality, but I'm just trying to figure out what percentage of our cases do we have a successful outcome? And how are we counting those outcomes? Well councilmember combs our dvsa unit handles all the sexual assault cases that come through Within the Santa Rosa jurisdiction and quite frankly other jurisdictions when requested As far as outcomes go, I think you will get From the district attorney that there are multiple outcomes Depending on the type of case what issues come up And certainly, you know that we have a strong working relationship As a matter of fact or our domestic violence sexual assault unit is housed in the family justice center to try to increase positive outcomes both for the victim and also Hold the suspect accountable So I I'm trying to understand what Data set you're really looking for Here to be able to provide it. I'm not sure it would fall within the auditor's report or purview. Yeah I'm just trying to find out um Are we being required by the district attorney to file a statement of probable cause for example And do we do that on any arrest? Any arrest there's a statement of probable cause, okay So it's not we don't do we refer all those cases to the district attorney? Depending on investigative steps most get referred. We also have vertical prosecutors We worked with at the district attorneys or at the family justice center to try to bring those cases forward Okay, not all cases based on the fact pattern can go forward. I understand can you I was expecting to see those some data on How many cases move forward how many don't I appreciate that it's a fuzzy data, but over time we would see You know what's typical for our city and typical for other cities I think where i'm getting here is i'm not sure it would reside within the auditor's scope And certainly if there's something that I can provide it depends on whether it depends on what the data says Whether it is an auditor's issue or not and i'm having trouble telling What what isn't and isn't the data because I don't have it So I guess one of the concerns I have is it's my understanding that there's a goal of increasing communication with stakeholders And so these are two areas where I view myself as a stakeholder and i'm asking for increased communications on these topics Our community moving on our community advisory board in the charter mentions Um being An advisory body with regard to public safety And I wondered if you presented any of your report findings to our community advisory board or have engaged them in any of these conversations I I met with them in 2017 and presented to them back then I meet regularly with kalua barns So they're aware of my My presence is a resource So one of your recommendations involved reporting to a board or subcommittee of council Would you consider that that board is not the appropriate place? Are you looking for a different board? I'm looking for I'm looking for a different board I'm looking for a board that i'm not providing advisory information to but Something roughly the equivalent of of like a public safety committee or a police commission type thing Okay, and I just want to make sure I've understood your other advice So you're looking for and the board or subcommittee isn't actually written in the report That's correct. Okay And one of the other ones involved having the audio be on the police body cams But you don't feel the need for the council to weigh in on that at this time I've informed the council if the council feels like the council needs to weigh in it's the council's decision I made a conscious decision to include it in my report because I felt the council should know about it Okay, I'm I'm interested in in what we need to do to be helpful on that front You mentioned that we have staffing shortages And I'm wondering if you have Provided us with information with regard to How many staff you think we're short and in the areas where you think we're short? And if we handled theoretically handled homelessness differently would we still have those staffing shortages So this is another thing I have not done a study of I am very conscious of and the chief can speak to this issue at some length There are patrol shifts that struggle to meet minimums For example, we have people in the academy currently we have laterals that are in fto So there's a piece of it that we're covering But we also have more retirements this year and next so it's a constant problem It's also true that some of the specialized units have had individuals taken out of there in order to fill patrol so Although I can't give you a number the fact of the short staffing is is evident Okay Thank you and the You have you also mentioned if I understated a recommendation with regard to phased retirements Or staggering if you excuse the expression blattering retirements I think what my recommendation is is that command staff work this out as opposed to that someone comes and imposes it on them Thank you But i'm exposing it publicly in order to encourage them to get on that Okay, I will I again want to appreciate the transparency of the report that you've given to us I consider one of the goals within our Within your list of goals possibly The goal of establishing communication and credibility To include improving transparency So, um, thank you very much Mr. Tivitz Thank you, mr. Mayor Mr. Aronson, I just want to also thank you for your your candor On this issue. I was a little bit surprised to see You to basically take a political position or what I perceived it as in that Report, however, I do think it's a valuable contribution to the conversation Um, I would also ask the same questions as mr. Olivares about And it sounds like you didn't have the time to do this. I understand your time is limited but Speaking with the service provider understanding our rapid rehousing successes understanding The fact that the point in time count prior to the fire did actually go down albeit a de minimis amount But it did go down and this council, you know very Through a lot of deliberation a lot of back and forth tried to put its best foot forward with the housing first policy Now I think it's true that it's we have an incredibly under resourced government for creating the housing to necessitate a real noticeable Impact as of yet, but it's a policy that I think has worked and I think going forward I'd ask that, you know before you generate a report to make sure and maybe you did and if you did correct me If I'm wrong but to make sure to talk to the service providers who are the ones who are gathering data to this effect But that that still doesn't take away from the fact that your anecdotal conversations are exactly the same conversations I've had with rank and file police officers And it's been an ongoing concern of mine that police officers have felt as though Um the moral issue I've talked with them. Those were spiritual the spiritual issue Among others and it's been difficult for a lot of them just the uh You know, I've heard some call it a whack-a-mole. We're moving around and The we're moving the group around So I think it does if there is one discovery that this council should make coming away from today is it you know We will continue with our housing first approach But maybe I think we would be Benefited by speaking to our police officers and I'm trying to ask them Is there a policy That can be approached that we might not be thinking of that they have direct experience with and so for that I want to thank you Um because it's uh anecdotal or empirical The fact is is those conversations are happening and if we value our employees and we value our police department We we would benefit from listening to them Um one other question that I would have can I respond to what you said before you The first thing is it was never my intention to be political I'm aware of the fact that this enters into politics and it's a very sensitive issue And I was very reluctant to include it because I knew I would walk into this firestorm But it's profoundly an issue for this community for me to ignore it would be a neglect of my duty So that that's the first piece of of all of that the second thing is and I said this in the report Please I it's not my intention to diminish what you as council members have tried to do what the community has tried to do Or what the service providers are trying to do This is a really important thing The the all I'm talking about is the results that I see Sitting in patrol cars and contacting people and I think the single biggest thing that service providers Anecdotally speak to is the fact that they need more resources There are far more people and that are homeless than there is money to provide them Any sort of meaningful services So instead we're we're spending money Wacking them all that that's the one thing I do ask that when you leave here tonight is Is to actually identify if it's an entire entirely a whack-a-mole situation I do that not to put that quote out there into the blogosphere But I understand that that is something we hear continuously from the community and from I have heard it from our police officers some of them not all but I think that but I do do strongly encourage you to look at the numbers that catholic charities has been able to Generate through rapid rehousing and housing navigation As well as the recent point in time count prior to the fire I think we would be remiss not to say that you know Argue seven ways to sunday about the approach but there have been some Empirical results that need to be noted is what I want to what I want to get out there But but I stand by what I said and I hope that Moving forward whether it's a it's a subcommittee or it is potentially in the continuum of care redesign that Somebody representing the rank and file police officers get a voice in that conversation. I would love to see that Here's a softball. I am curious about the 39 use of force cases when I read about that in your report I think I counted 39 But how did that how does that stack up or compare and if I'm getting the number wrong? How do we compare to other similarly sized jurisdictions? Well, those are the ones that I reviewed there were far more uses of force in 2017 than what I reviewed my suspicion is Just a second. I can give you pretty much the What number we got up to I believe last year in in uses of force. We got up to 160 166 172 173 So in essence, uh, I've reviewed about One sixth of the use of force this year will be different this year I will review probably much closer to between one third and one half Of the uses of force But just as a barometer as one for one of seven who oversee the police department Or at least a city manager who oversees a chief who oversees the police department How does that compare to similarly sized jurisdictions with kind of similar demographic? population makeup things like that My anecdotal impression is that Santa Rosa pd on average uses less force and less severe force than many other departments But it depends where on the state you go law enforcement in the central valley is very different than law enforcement along the coast Okay, well, thank you. I appreciate that No further questions Mr. Schwadhelm Thank you, mr. Mayor. Thank you, mr. Anderson for your report and I just you know, I appreciate your comments about the homelessness But when I read the one in a quarter pages or however you classify it of your 17 page report For me and you used a word earlier today confrontational oversight. That's what it felt like to me reading it because um A lot of our efforts that we've been trying to do to change the system I wouldn't expect maybe every officer to do this. So I just want to ask Um, are you familiar with the host team? Yes How much what do you what what is your understanding of the host team? I'm reluctant to play the game where I get challenged about It's not a game because my my challenge is you've made some comments here And one of the things was resources that we don't have enough resources I've anecdotally met with members of the host teams and talked to them But beyond that no because you know again if if it's the council's direction That in the next cycle, I more closely look at the homelessness issue. I'd be more than happy to do that I'd be more than happy to do that But we're still back to the same issue of I don't think I need to have encompassed the whole iceberg to warn the titanic And again, maybe Some more education because I don't want this to be confrontational because I didn't see anywhere in here that said Maybe a suggestion would be why don't we educate more of the police officers who you're writing with about You know a list that since this was coming up We have the host team the hope team of which some san rosa officers are engaged in to your Comment actually getting input from them about how are we trying to End the chronic homelessness of some of our by names list I am guessing that the downtown enforcement team is very familiar with it But what do you have chief about 175 other officers? I'm guessing 150 of them probably never heard of it because it's not what they do in many of those 150 you've written with But it's just exactly what you're suggesting. We are doing some of those efforts Homeless system of care redesign that we've done. We've got a new leadership team We heard today from the technical advisory committee. We just selected These are all systematic things that we're trying and so for an assessment to be made what the officers are Hearing and feeling I wouldn't expect all of the officers working graveyard shift to understand Some of the things that we're doing here and even the homeless system of care even our friends in Washington DC Had where they're actually funding now coordinated entry HMIS system. We're trying to change the system. I do not expect that every officer recognizes that One of the comments that you said in your report and I'd like you to just Explain this one a little bit more. You said I think it's on page 13 Why are we making deserve part of the criteria for helping the homeless? I I don't understand where that came from is towards the bottom of page 13 Because that has never been a policy that i'm aware that the police department says do you deserve our services or not? I've never heard any of my colleagues up here saying deserve is ever part of that So could you explain a little bit what you mean by that deserve part of the criteria for helping the homeless? Sure first your first question The vast majority of officers I've written with know about hosts because they use hosts They know because regardless of what time it is or what shift they're working. They have to deal with the homeless So the vast majority of officers know about the different systems that are available And you know, I don't know whether they feel comfortable speaking candidly into this rainstorm But I I know when they speak to me They don't they don't place a lot of stock in it now to return to the second question that you asked me I think what it comes down to is the following no one says officially you have to deserve it But there's a backtrack in and I hear this constantly including with some service providers That so and so is not part of their own solution that they're living in a filthy way That they're drug addicted and they won't straighten out and there's only so much we can do and maybe we can't do anything And the difficulty that I have is there are plenty of people that have had illnesses or diseases in our society That we helped regardless of whether they deserved it This was part of what went on with the AIDS crisis from my perspective The homeless are a disadvantaged group exactly the same way people of color are or people who are otherwise disadvantaged and classified And yeah on some level I I've repeated this in here because this is a discussion I have with police officers when I'm riding along Because the automatic reaction that most of us have is middle-class people when we see Homeless encampments is we're shocked by the filth and the smell There's there's a line out of the the movie grapes of wrath when they're coming across the desert And they stop at a gas station and two guys in the middle of I think it's barstow And and after the okies leave they both say to each other They can't be human no human could live like that That's where the context comes from that I talk about deserve And that's what I meant So again that that suggestion from the role of an auditor if it's a training issue And and and I was thinking when I was reading some of this I know chief schrader experienced this and if you've been in law enforcement 35 years when we had that transition Within law enforcement from domestic violence cases went from discretionary arrest to mandatory arrest All of your descriptions in there I felt that from officers low morale took us four hours on this This is not what we want to be doing But in hindsight it was exactly what we need to be doing because lives are being saved I guess having that experience I'm believing the strategies at this council and this police department has been taken in this community We don't have the results that and it's too soon. We just started this And I guess that's why I'm responding to your page in a quarter Because really emphasize that without in my opinion having the understanding of all the things that we're doing And I believe education might be that thing where we can do this thing together because again this That sounds to me like the confrontational oversight. So The other question I had one of the other council members talked about with staffing levels Are you familiar with the obligated unobligated time frame about how the police department has established that? Yes So where were we 15 years ago with the obligated unobligated? You're asking the wrong person. Well, you made the comment that For their activity level srpd patrol is under staff compared to 10 or 15 years ago Because I know that's a relatively new methodology Where the chief of police in this body here? We can either stop going to some calls or get more staffing to balance that obligated unobligated time So I know I think councilmember combs asked. What is that magical number? You know, and this might be a question for the chief. When would that? Conversation come to council about if you want us to be half obligated half unobligated Give us that figure or this is what we can stop doing to get those numbers there For everybody in the audience both here and not here listening in The center is a police department uses a very complex Staffing model and it's based on data time that calls or officers are tied up on calls and these types of things Which generate numbers as to where they're not they're obligated or they're available for calls for service We strive For 30 and 30 meaning 30 minutes obligated 30 minutes unobligated The last staffing study was done just before the rosaline annexation, which was used to formulate the number of additional staff needed to take on rosaline with no appreciable drop in Service levels for the entire community We are currently involved in a new staffing study and that information will be coming in the spring And that in that case we will have some discussions about where we are because some of the things that have occurred over the last Five years since the last staffing study is body worn cameras as mentioned by mr. Aronson And really monitoring the calls for service over time So then we will be in some discussions about potentially either adding staff or changing how we deliver services to this community So spring 19 Yes, that's okay. Thank you I just wanted to respond to one thing Councilmember schwedhelm your comments are well taken about what is about to start happening in the city I just want to remind all of us that my report is for calendar year 2017 Vice mayor Thank you, mr. Mayor First mr. Aronson, I want to start by thank you for two things in particular One is the conversation around the muting of the body cameras and as we've seen In other incidents in other jurisdictions that becomes problematic on both ends Right. And so I appreciate you pushing for that conversation I also what I found valuable in your page in a quarter on homelessness was the discussion related to the impact of Working on homeless policy that is having on the morale of police officers. I think that that's really valuable I think where you're seeing pushback from some of the council members is even when I agree with the assessment that you're making in that section Throughout your entire report not just that page in a half There's a little bit of a casualness to how you're making some of your comments There's there's almost some flippant comments that are in there So you talk about reduction in complaints, but you don't have any data for comparison And you talk about compare we just mentioned comparison to other departments There's no data in the report for us to rely on You make a comment about spending more on enforcement of homelessness than we're spending on on actual services But it's not in the report and just the general tone of the report that you gave us and I'll read you a section Nobody likes to hear negative feedback. I run into this problem all the time in my work at the police department I'd rather not give negative feedback I take no pleasure in upsetting people and you're paying me to tell you the truth or at least my honest opinion Of what I think the truth is that's a very casual way of expressing What we hire you to do and so my concern with the report actually I appreciate the recommendations In the future I'd like to see a more professional version of the report that I can put out there in the in the public That has data and it has facts not just It's almost meandering thoughts from you in the way that a lot of this reads And I if we tighten that up there's more of a document we can put out there in the public as it is now Unsubstantiated by facts or data. It looks like it's just I Can't put this out to the public and tell them other than a couple of the recommendations that That this is going to be Like I said, it's casual, but I'm sorry you feel that way vice mayor rogers I have been a professional writer for many years. This is how I write I'm really glad I included that section and just with that casual tone so that no one would mistake that I'm being too pointed Or too angry, but this is exactly what's happening here And so I'm glad I put that in there the second part the issue of greater specificity If I were a full-time employee and had a lot more time there'd be a lot more greater specificity The difficulty that I have is that I'm only here five days a month This report the vast majority of the time that I spent producing it was on my own time It's not even on any invoice to the city Okay, this report here represents about 40 or 50 hours of my time That I donated to the city. I would love to do a better more detailed report. I'd love to Five days a month I there isn't that time There just isn't that time to to be able to justify every statement I make with all of the statistics And I understand and I can appreciate that and we've spent a lot of time talking about the limitations of your time My concern is that there are glaring Blind spots to the report as well that are coupled with factual statements from you that if reported by the public Lack context or lack in understanding of what we're doing Councilmember oliveris asked you you haven't read our our policy around homelessness There is I don't believe there was a single reference to the violence prevention partnership in this entire document It's the casual nature of some of the comments that you've made that while I appreciate the recommendations Make it difficult for us to give this to the public and say that this is founded in What is actually happening throughout our our community and I do agree with you on your observations on homelessness But what I'm telling you is the casual nature of this report makes it difficult for me to put it out there as an authoritative document Mr. Mayor Mr. Mr. Chairman are you required to produce a report for this or just just something voluntary that you do? I believe my contract Expects an annual report. Okay. Well, it doesn't matter to me whether you do it on duty or off duty. You're required to do it so I I don't I don't understand your logic about doing this on your own time. I'm sorry you did it on your own time But I think we would still expect factual information being here or information is being presented as factual to be supported And that's that's my one of my major major concerns Is that even with you talking about your method of operation and talking about the thorough review of all materials Which really has not been done on some of the factual or conclusions that you've made in your report That's the rub for me is that it seemed to be very one-sided or Barely touching the surface without really looking at or asking your boss Is there more information out there? This is what i'm hearing at the police department is there more information out there that I could use to Figure out what's happening here, but it doesn't seem like that that occurred So I don't even know if that discussion was had with your boss in making that report Mr. Erranton Your report indicates that you found and in your in your auditing Of the police department relatively few things to be concerned about I think that the quote was nothing of great magnitude Can you help me Explain to the community given the the strapped resources that we talk about the staffing shortages that we talk about um Why we don't use the the money that we're paying you to do this To take care of those strapped resources back into the police department And i'm not trying to ask this to provoke. I'm actually asking this For some help giving you a chance to to help me explain to the public Why we do this? I think the the totality of what i've done in the last three years with santa rosa pd Has appreciably improved the quality of service to the community I individually counsel officers and sergeants on a monthly basis about issues I see on body cam videos or on ride-alongs Just as a matter of routine Just as a matter of routine the question of whether i'm worth the money You know, I don't know what to tell you I mean part of the reason and I i'm sorry that Council member oliveris is not here the nature of how I work is not primarily about the money It's primarily about trying to do a good job. The reason I did the report on my own time is because honestly My report isn't even up. I was one of my goals That's not one of my critical goals It is part of your contract though is my understanding It's not one of my critical goals My critical goals are to try to make a difference with every dollar of time that I spend with the city And writing a report whether it's here or any other place only leads to exactly what's happening now Which is a reaction because no one wants exposed publicly and to have this conversation publicly Because it it's taken to heart One of the advantages I have in Santa Cruz is I report to a segment of the city council in closed session And everyone gets to have a much better sense and as well i'm able to provide more detail About the things that I do because most of what I do is personnel involved So even if I don't name names if I get too far into facts, I've gone too far I'm I'm heavily constrained by what I can say Heavily constrained by what I can say Chief Frieder, um I asked the same question to you given given the Strapped resources of the department Do you feel like this is money well spent? Well, I think there's value in having an outside Perspective on any organization now what structure that takes is up to the council in the long run. There is certainly Having the ability for somebody in the community that has grievances with the police department That are not satisfied with what we produce or we do for them because we meet with all the complainants also They have another resource to be able to talk to and that's mr. Aaronson or they can go to them mr. Aaronson directly And he can refer it back to us if they don't feel comfortable coming to the police department Even though we offer the ability to make complaints both anonymously email we take all complaints um And then there's value also in being able to kind of Uh, oh kind of hold the mirror up so to speak kind of like what many of you have been asking How do you compare is our police department? How do we compare to other organizations in terms of professionalism? In terms of how we run our personnel investigations, which ones we put forward when we bring in somebody from the outside But ultimately Many of those things are management decisions within the police department. Mr. Aaronson provides feedback In the long run and I think if you look at the areas where We've had disagreements and I'll be very honest Bob and I have had Multiple disagreements, but generally it's a philosophy And I'll give you an example when we talk about muting the cameras. I don't disagree that We need to have some conversations about muting the cameras How we get there from my perspective is through training Through development of strategies around that talking about with the officers You have to change the culture and I'll give you why that's so important If you look at the body worn camera usage as you change the culture versus demand something As an edict or a policy our body worn camera usage is almost doubled in the last year And both that's both by a different vendor as well as it being more accepted by the officers using it Muting is the same issue and it's not just a conversation for Santa Rosa It's a conversation as a regional issue for law enforcement And how muting the cameras is both perceived and the narrative it writes during critical incidents So it is something we are addressing. We've talked to the poa about it We've talked to our training division about how we're incorporating it in our training policy and we will get better at it Was that it was the muting issue brought to your attention by mr. Aaronson and how long ago No, the muting issue was brought to my attention by the issue in sacramento when it came up during the critical shooting in sacramento and the Issues that it caused within the community Questioning the role of the police in that particular shooting. So we looked at our own policy and then we started looking At how often it's used Mr. Aaronson certainly when he sees it brings it to our attention also And since he reviews the vast majority or the most of the significant uses of force I would say not all use force when you look at the numbers Of use of force and you look at the stats that we produce for the community the vast majority of use of force is Simply taking somebody down to the ground and controlling them Versus the things that it will typically believe are uses of force with baton strikes or tasers or these kinds of things Which are a small Majority of the or small minority of the uses of force I don't believe the chief is remembering but I discussed the muting with him long before the sacramento incident It's just a sacramento incident made it vivid for all of us Thank you and we'll go to public comments Kathleen finnegan followed by Anita lafellette Wow, good evening everybody um I don't know where to start. Well, I do know where to start. I want to commend Chief schreeder for opening the records at his department to an independent auditor And I want to commend mr. Aaronson For telling the truth He is an individual. I've gotten to know him a little bit I consider him to be an individual of great integrity And he is telling the truth based on what he has seen I dare say he has talked with more homeless people than any of you sitting on that dais I have tramped around those encampments and I've never felt frightened My understanding is that the host people won't go without a police escort. Why are they afraid? Why are they afraid? They're they're supposed to be helping these people, but they're afraid of them.  Bob Aaronson put in that report What matters is that jill ravage our district attorney says that, you know Arrests this is not the answer. It's just perpetuating the problem And I suggest that when it comes to your policy that uh, the you know the the sweeps Who's who's this is the chain of command is it not my understanding is that? That the the the buck stops with you And the city manager You are responsible for criminal activity actually violations of human rights that are well documented by international standards our own Sonoma county Human rights commission found such violations in this county and city and the un special rapporteur Lelani farha recently came out with a Damning report on the bay area as well as Area indonesia india you name it africa and her conclusion was that We have Little let me give this is good. So let me find it Cruelty that is unsurpassed In san francisco in bay area. They have the same problems as we have san francisco has 4,000 some odd people on the streets 4,300 People on the streets every night. We have 2,000 in this county And we are not looking at the elephant in the room We are not doing a damn thing to help people get off the streets give them a safe place Protect them from criminalization of persecution and it's your Responsibility So please do your jobs take a look at who you are Look yourself in the mirror Can you can you? Thank you. Can you do the right thing? I need a lot for that followed by scott wagman I still want to come up to the front podium. I guess you know that Um, but the use of force is a huge issue with the police officers and um, we Do a lot of this over at allero But it's good to see sergeant erinson on task For I want to acknowledge his attempts and focus Collaboration is needed even with the city in the mall And you noticed that Complaints are down is what he says. Well, there is a fear of retaliation A fear that the cops will return and run them down Police heroism Is apparent during the fire. I want to give the policeman acknowledgement for that I am I was I was Astounded and I felt wonderful but the The morale effect Shows that the front end of the system Is not solving the problems. Can you hear that? I feel a cop should have the right to refuse To enforce a rule that they disagree with So Mr. Ernesto you must learn to listen and get out of denial You attack because you don't want to hear it's so apparent And julie the issue of course is with the lack of prosecution in the da's office. I can attest to that And mr. Sweathelm you should follow the host team yourself and you'll see They they they do Very little and are very derogatory in their presentation to any homeless person I want to remind you that mr. Aronson is here one day a week So that's one fifth Of all he could do if he was here full time Now I see In this evening right here the tough tactics that you use In the same way With mr. Aronson as you use With those homeless people and actually I want to let you know that I'm afraid you're going to run me down when I leave Now I'm an homeless app Advocate and I do what's possible to get individuals in shelter But I did also go to the tac Recap I want to tell you there are some very serious conflicts of interest there The committees do not represent the population But only those of the dollars like catholic charities, etc. Thank you. It's love a lot You don't want to hear anymore I guess you don't want Scott Wagner Followed by brad morrison Thank you. I wanted to reiterate uh Yeah, I'll get in trouble with some of my friends I suppose but I I want to reiterate uh some of the Joy and the pride that I felt out in the streets with the police officers. I um Many of you may not know but I I'm Kind of the officer in charge from a homeless action standpoint from an activist standpoint on all the sweeps that you do that are major And I've been doing that for about a year It's mixed You know, we've got one guy. I'm not going to name that.  Aronson that these are in general They're fine men and that they're being used To do your will And and so it's really I'm always looking past them, you know They're they're tactics They're not important to me in that sense people are always trying to make me worry about the cops and I I can't get there Because it's they're they're going to do what you tell them to do And yeah, they're going to make some mistakes here and there and you'll hear about that from us, but um But I want to focus just for the remainder of my time on the strategic element That that we Officially and clearly opposed. Um, we are deeply opposed to your version of housing first Um, I love that you have had this conversation tonight. It is the clearest Conversation that we have had about homelessness that I can remember But it what what it illustrates to me is that there's a misunderstanding about the cruelty that gets done out there and you know I do want to ask you to come And maybe I will try to invite you explicitly the next time we do have this kind of crisis when people are being scattered But there is no way mr. Schweldschweldhelm that you can equate something That you've had other experiences with where you had to play hardball or tough love To the kind of thing that is occurring out there. This is not a tough love event This is people that are losing their possessions that are losing their health that are at risk of death And we have fairly low cost solutions that we can do to get them out of the cold And get them safe and we don't utilize those And so to talk about well, we need more time for this abuse to work somehow I don't even know What you're what you're speaking of what the terms are that you're using they're not helpful So I'd like you to try some other way of getting that across to us. Thank you Brad Morrison followed by Merlin Davis Hi there, my name is Brad Morrison. I've lived in Santa Rosa since 2007 or so I worked for the post office for 12 and a half years before quitting my job the day after the fire is oddly enough Um I believe it was october maybe november of 2017 when I first went into the santa rosa police department Asking for help with a bunch of hacking that I was going through a bunch of device issues I found that people Generally fall into two camps when it comes to cops pro-police and anti-police I really wasn't either I you know, I mean I saw cops when I would deliver mail But most of the time I just did my job and they did theirs and I interacted with them when I needed help Which is what I did My experience with the Santa Rosa police department was terrible I did not get the help that I needed at the same time my situation was extremely unusual And I had such a difficult time reconciling the reality of of Police work with my experience that I spent an enormous amount of time learning about cops Not all of it went well, but so this is kind of my spiel The online crime reporting system that the city of santa rosa uses is terrible Um There are 13 law enforcement agencies in sonoma county. There might be hundreds in the state I've actually written the state attorney general's office about creating a single online You know universal crime reporting template, which would blah blah blah save uh, lots of police departments a lot of money That's one thing. I've talked to bob erinston a few times before about the vehicle tracker use and auditing that Um because I assume that I've been followed by a lot of different cops and I could never quite tell why And that was another thing with with the laws regarding what police can say and what they can't it was incredibly difficult for me to understand what was going on And that caused me to kind of freak out in a lot of different ways Which is not exactly something i'm proud of but um It's what I did so There is a huge i'm wearing a high-time shirt actually volunteered at the festival Uh, I haven't smoked weed in 15 years, but whatever There's a huge amount of uh cannabis industry in sonoma county, obviously The way that it is dealt with I mean don't make me wrong There's enormous differences between small growers and like enormous criminal elements But the way that it is dealt with It doesn't make any sense to me. I would focus. I mean I mean More on a code enforcement aspect for cannabis In terms of you know irs and tax data because if that's what government really wants is the money from the cannabis then focus on that And you have police actually Act on crimes against people which are generally more serious So anyways, thank you, mr. Morrison. Thanks Merlin davis followed by thomas dells So independence uh, you just got uh bob you just got told by five of Seven city council people all revolving around the one issue where you seriously criticized their systemic treatment of the population You got threatened with your job You got called non independent You were told that you were using anecdotes rather than facts You were told that you're getting political whatever that means all of this is political everything is political But we know what it means You were told you were actually called unprofessional One person said you have blind spots Two of those people who criticized you and threatened your job Used to be cops You were not questioned on your use of data or anecdotes or any other parts of your narrative Were a concerned use of force and that it might be lower than other departments On the staffing on the cameras and how often they're muted Is this independence? Ask yourself are there things that you will not say because you are afraid of losing your job What more would we have heard tonight if you were accountable to us to the community Rather than to the bosses who supposedly your job is to criticize But there are people in uniforms with badges and guns who question what they're being told to do However, it doesn't matter As good a heart as they might have they follow orders And what they are doing causes the very problems that they're supposed to be fixing They move people from stable communities to being scattered on the on the streets And then we get complaints from community members that they're on doorsteps or in parks or on trails The city refuses to provide them garbage or toilets When we provide them garbage or toilets the the city comes in and takes it away And then they are attacked for being uncleanly for being unhealthy This is the positive feedback Positive feedback as in it causes itself and it causes itself to grow Of the system and of the policing that are used that is used in our communities If those officers are concerned about what they're doing There's one thing and one thing only they can do and that is to Turn down turn turn in their badge in their guns and come help us with real problems Thank you, mr. Davis tom sales. I want to thank this council for having this discussion We can't have this discussion without having mr. Aronson the task force for the homeless Existed for almost 30 years And it was run out of this county. It was destroyed on purpose and for no reason And it had Ken savano now chief of police a pedaluma on that committee I don't know four years more than four years Members of the santa rosa police department alvernon and the new elected sheriff mark s alvernon for several years as lieutenant and then Now captain then made captain now deputy Sheriff in charge of the jail Many things were made effective through the task force for the homeless the homeless court Safe parking came through homeless action and the task force for the homeless many many things In particular those aspects of funding for sober sonoma And the pedaluma sober circle Sober sonoma. What is that now? Okay, that was that was beneficial and effective the aim of that was to Analyze and that the the data is there the numbers are there. I don't know if you're familiar with it six million dollars No, excuse me nine million dollars a year was spent By the police force Sheriff's police and so on Spending time at memorial hospital with people that didn't need to go to the hospital They needed to go to a sobering center. They couldn't take them there So that money is Not being saved without sober sonoma And I want to point out because I only have a few seconds left here This is three minutes that I have to talk to you about this. There's a lawsuit currently It's regarding the environment It's at the federal level It's offered if you will it's been filed by the dean of climate or environmental policy at the oregon state university Against the united states of america for having fossil fuel policy And it's against the public trust. It's already gone to the supreme court and been returned to the ninth circuit for hearing A violation of public trust Thank you, mr. House of which this is the same I'll bring it back to the council Any final questions or comments? Mr. Sawyer Thank you, mayor I'll introduce a motion to accept the annual report from barbara erinston independence police auditor IPA to the centers of police department second your votes I think I think there was going to be some some discussion. I didn't see anyone who was uh I'm jumping up to comment, but go ahead mr. Elder's please. Thank you. I am I am going to be voting no on this report And again for this for reasons I stated earlier. I think it's it's incomplete Um, this is going to be a permanent document of ours And I think it's important that we the record is actually reflected and I understand the time constraints There's a lot of good information here as far as the auditing of of processes within the organization use of force etc and I think Councilmember tibis mentioned in comparison to other cities It's dangerous to do that because in some cities It's hard to make a complaint because it's just hard to make it hard and others is very easy So it's it's kind of usually going to that area more. How do we how do we track over time based on what's going on in our community? I think that that is important to to note But but again, I think there's information that Could have been provided or should have been sought out to make this more more accurate In in essence auditing whether if whether you want to audit the city's response to homelessness or not And that was the intent, but I think we did get into a little bit of more of an editor editorial here And without any additional information in this report, it's going to stand as it is. So I just have a difficult time accepting this report as written at this time Mr. Tivitz Thank you, mr. Mayor. I'm mr. Oliveris I do respect your your position to to not accept the the report I'm going to be voting to accept it in this instance because I believe that This is more or less what we did hire you to do I I agree though with Frankly all the points that have been made up here, mr. Aronson that There are some very substantial claims here and claims are fine. We're government. We should Discover claims and turn them into a rich conversation if we don't do that. We're not doing our jobs But we I really need to see You know more research Done to kind of substantiate those claims I mean the fact to me that you didn't speak to catholic charities to figure out what the housing Location numbers were to me is just such a disconnect From what's in the report So going forward I would ask just the one thing is that in your next report for 2018 Which I believe you're under contract to do is that is that I think you've gotten good anecdotal information But now turning that anecdotal information to empirical information and just some suggestions ideas that I have is Survey the department or if that's too time intensive To do an electronic survey or something of that nature reach out to the poa representatives Can they get their members together? And kind of come up with an idea or a consensus about how homelessness should be addressed in their mind as somebody on the city council I would love to know What it is that they have in mind that would be a solution going forward We should absolutely be getting police officer input to a greater degree than I think that we are Also the mr. Oliveris. I think that's a Well taken your point about comparison data But I would just some kind of time series data to measure advancements then against our own department. I still think we could kind of Generally look at other communities recognizing that they might not be The most accurate just because of logging complaints and things like that. But but understanding because we can have these reports that are anecdotal you know All the time but what what helps us make decisions is being able to have have those numbers the Substantiation behind the claims and so I would just ask for that. But I do appreciate. I think you've unearthed a rich conversation And I will look forward to seeing what that turns into I want to thank you again for bringing us the report And uh, I understand your Concern about using your limited time to generate paper instead of to do Something more fruitful. So I appreciate that you have mentioned that I hope that we can resource you in the future in such a way that we can have our report and you can do your work too Um And I also hope that we can take to heart your request for reporting to a board or subcommittee of counsel More frequently and more fruitfully I think that you have given us a number of recommendations And I appreciate that you brought that one to us I will be supporting as I seconded the item receiving your report Understanding that I don't think I've sat here and ever gotten a report that had absolutely everything Jot and tittle that I might have liked And so I hope that we can move forward at receiving this report hearing what we need to hear from it and Establishing a relationship with you in the future that allows you to speak openly with us. Thank you Any other Final comments. Mr. Sluan. Thank you mayor. There was one of the takeaways and for I do want to mention that everyone behind this dais is personally invested in both All of our citizens in Santa Rosa and they not everyone in the community is going to agree with some of our strategies It's a very Difficult place. We find ourselves in when we are pulled in different directions wondering how to move forward who to listen to Which which strategies to employ and which ones to avoid and I think that You you in in your report you hit you hit a nerve And depending on the individuals Listening to the report or reading the report They react differently to the information provided therein But I don't doubt at all The dedication of each of the members of this council in moving forward to try to Effect change not only in our homeless population, but just the activities and the Strategies and the dedication of the police department and So I am I am Pleased that the report was created There are there it brings up some some major concerns in my mind about the Staffing levels, I'm very concerned about morale I think that that goes to each of the issues that we deal with with our police department Has to do with with our employees and and their support and the support that they have both inside the department and in the community and I look very much forward to the staffing study and and I'm very concerned about Some of the recommendations that are coming forward in in reducing positions Or eliminating positions or reducing the staffing both in both of our public safety departments So I'm looking forward to that to that report and I'm and I'm I think that we will have a very interesting conversation when it comes to to our budget discussions next year And luckily that the citizens of Santa Rosa have given us measure o Which will go a long way to helping us to Not make some of those severe cuts that we were looking at But I'll be looking very carefully at those recommendations for public safety because I think that reduce any any kind of reduction in those areas would be Very concerning to me in the future So unless you'd like me to read the motion again, the motion has been made and seconded Your votes counsel That passes with six eyes. Mr. Oliveris as opposed Thank you We have no public hearing tonight There is a written communication on our quarterly boards and commissions and attendance We have any final final cards miss Gomez We are adjourned


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