is the OTP presented by Farm Bureau health plans need great health care coverage with an affordable price tag let Farm Bureau health plans coach you through it they've been protecting Tennesseans for 75 years with Amy Wells I'm Mike Keith and we are thrilled to be joined by the head coach of Titans radio Dave McGinnis and the ever-reliable Rhett Bryan glad you guys are here wonderful to see you you know Mike Keith when I pulled up out here to this parking lot and saw how full it was this is a great event thank you all for being here this is way cool we thank you yes that's for you we got off we just got off the practice field today of course clearly we just got back from Baltimore but to come in here and to be able to see new Titans ticket holders this is awesome guys thanks for being here thanks coach I was gonna tell everybody where we were after I introduced you we're at the Wesley mortgage club at me side stadium at a massive event for Titans rookie season ticket members give yourselves a hand yes yes this is really awesome that the Titans first of all has put this function together for all first time season ticket members and we are thrilled to be here with you guys this afternoon and this is just one of many events like this that you can be privy to and be a part of by being a season ticket member it's an awesome experience we're so glad to be here you don't just get tickets you're essentially joining an exclusive club where you get a lot of invites to do a lot of things and join us for a lot of exciting things and the outpouring that we have had this offseason with who we've added to this group is incredibly exciting for everyone in our organization from ownership to our head coach Mike Vrable our general manager John Robinson our players are certainly aware of this enthusiasm so we just say thank you and we are so glad you're here today for the OTP oh absolutely I mean what all these guys said I 1000% echo this is one of a tremendous amount of things that you guys now get to be a part of all those things that you look around and you're like oh hey how'd they get to do that thing well this is how this is it you're in the club now you're part of the family and we're so excited to have you all here coach Matt yes sir these were the folks when they were the season ticket members got to come on the general Jackson with us when the draft was here how cool an event was that was say you're part of that now you're part of comes back here and it will yeah well you will now get to be a part of it for all the exciting things that we have and our ticketing staff really does a remarkable job adding value you don't just get a set of tickets and say hey come see the game this is a thing now no and there's so much that goes with it and believe me I coached for 31 years in this league as a head coach you don't get to interact a lot with the fans because you've got some other stuff going on right but now that I've been able to do this this is this is a part of this being able to be on this broadcast team here for Titans radio that I absolutely love I can finally get out and be with the people and so I really I really enjoy this and you guys joining and being part of it you know I'm not real smart you can tell that already just you know just by what you've heard up here but I will recognize faces quick and so I'm already finding some faces I'm going to recognize at a lot of events all right coach back give us your breakdown of the Titans first preseason game last Thursday in Baltimore just about what what to be expected play the second and the 13 guys quite a bit I think everybody was a little bit surprised Malik Willis got the got the start at quarterback and Mike very well look guys we are so fortunate here I've been in this league 37 years I know good from bad this head coach this general manager and this owner they are as good as you'd want in this league and that the the decision that was made to start Malik Willis we all watch practice every day and what Malik needs is a lot of live reps in the national football league and again wonderful player at Liberty but the jump from Liberty to the national football league at quarterback it's a huge leap it's a huge jump so he needed live reps and we saw a lot of the things and you heard what Mike Vrabel said after the game a lot of the things you would expect early elite athleticism really a great competitor team rallies around him but there's a lot going on out there and Mike Vrabel you heard when he said he put him back in the third quarter and Mike Keith asked me this in the broadcast booth there at Baltimore why would they put him back in I said they want him continue to do some things they wanted him you know he when you really grind the tape you'll hear me say that a lot now grind the tape because that's what you do to find out what these guys really are there was there was people open he just got to learn to squeeze the trigger and that's different because he has been the his whole career being able to you know to forfeit to his athletic ability and just make things happen he will still do that but he he left a lot of yardage out there on the on the field with throws he didn't make but I told Mike I told Amy and I told Rhett when we were up there this tape for him is going to be such a great learning experience there are going to be a lot of teachable moments on that tape and you can see him at practice today some of those throws he was holding on to he was letting go at practice I can't wait to see him again out here I can't wait to see him against the bucks in practice because that's going to be big but you can be excited about this guy for one reason and I noticed it from in May when they first got here he's the first guy out to practice he's like a sponge standing next to Ryan Tannehill stand next standing next to O'Hara the quarterback coach he wants to absorb all of this when you've got a player that has that type of attitude going along with that type of athletic ability we're going to have something here guys and it's going to take time just as I always like to say keep your powder dry on it but be excited it was a great third round pick by John Robinson. Rhett it's obvious that he has things to learn but from what we saw he is very much a prospect not a project and I think what Mike Vrabel said after the fact yesterday in his media he did okay and they they want to put him to the standard of an NFL quarterback because they feel like as a prospect he can develop into that kind of player and the reason that he can is a lot of the things that that coach Mack just outlined he's the first guy out to the practice field he is putting in the work you can tell he's doing it in the film room you can tell he's certainly doing on on the practice field but the athletic tangibles are off the charts the smarts are there the personality is there it's just putting everything else together and look hard work is how this thing is going to work for him and there's a lot of young men on this Titans team right now that are doing those kinds of things you know I we think about Julius chestnut is a prime example he got the start running back in Baltimore the other night 30 miles from where he grew up and the reason that he did is because he put in the work he came in as an undrafted free agent from Sacred Heart busted his rear end for two weeks and coach Vrabel and the staff said you know what you've earned this opportunity and you will serve as an example to the rest of those that say nothing's given it's all earned Malik Willis is going to earn it and something I noticed about Malik Willis just to piggyback on Rhett's point about him working so hard after every series in the game on the sidelines he came over and went straight to offensive coordinator Todd Downing every single time he checked in with him and he was absorbing the tips he was absorbing the whatever plays they were looking at whatever corrections they were making about his play calls I mean every single thing they dissected in real time so that then he could take that and go back on the field the next time the offense is on the field and make those corrections right away they were seeing improvement from one series to the next and that's something that you want to see and that's something he talked about post game is how helpful that was for him to be learning as it was happening it wasn't theoretical anymore it was actually tangibly happening right there. Todd Downing in his press availability this morning coach Mack made the point that they're competing for the number two job so they are putting him in that situation where he can work against Logan Woodside to a certain extent trying to earn that spot and they they get to hold him to a bit of a higher standard rather than just putting him in moth balls and saying you're definitely the number three all year. You're absolutely correct and the thing that you do as a coach when you get your new players in the first thing that you like to do once you get them integrated into what you're doing as far as just the base ideas of what's going on you look for moments where you can put them in stressful NFL situations immediately because they've got to learn to react and they've got to learn to react fast and they've have to be exposed to those stress situations. I coached defense for a long time in this league and I would tell my rookies look a slow correct decision on defense in the national football league here what I said a slow correct decision is wrong because the game moves too fast you've got to be able to process it and you've got to be able to go immediately and you've got to be able to trust what you've been taught then you've got to be able to trust your eyes your instincts that's why they're putting him in these situations right now there they are not going to slow play this guy at all because he's shown that he can absorb it now it's up to him to earn it and I'm sure Logan Woodside is not going to give it up all right but that's what competing in the national football league is but I was I was really excited about what I saw and it's about what I thought I would see because you could see him take off you can run but the one the one post corner that he threw in the ball game for 48 yards that's a big time throw and then of course you know the underhand boot that he threw that's just natural that's got given right there you know there's only so many that can do that so I'm excited about this guy and you should be too coach on the pre-baltimore edition of the OTP sponsored by far bureau health plans who is the player you wanted to see and how did that player do in the game I wanted to see racy McMath because you know racing McMath last year was a very intriguing player played at LSU didn't get a lot of balls thrown his way because they're the receiving core was maybe one of the best in the southeastern conference as a group tremendous special teams player you had a 6 3 200 plus pound receiver that can run 4 3 and so the athletic traits were there and just the jump that he made from year one to year two and first of all his body composition and then just his the way he carried himself and his and his his experience not only on the league but his confidence you could see him once they got back in OTAs this is a confident dude now and he's been showing up in practices all those practice reports that you get when they ever ask us we tell you exactly what we see we can't tell you schemes but we can tell you what we're looking at and player development I wanted to see him in a ballgame and I got to see him and you know one of the things that he did that I know we'll talk about a 46 man roster here sooner or later but he went down on a kickoff and made a tackle so you say well coach Mack he's a receiver why is that so important you start putting 46 out there on Sunday those those guys that aren't starting at positions they got to be core teams players and so racy McMatt has put himself in that spot so far in my mind and he was the one that I wanted to watch and see in a stress situation and I thought he passed with pretty good flying colors Amy your player was Nicholas Patee frayer rookie offensive tackle out of Ohio State how did you think he did well it's not like other positions where I can throw out flashy numbers with things he did but he didn't do anything bad so I think that means he did good realistically for a rookie offensive lineman a lot of that is getting those reps and making sure that nothing goes wrong that that's really what you're looking for and that's what he did I mean he got an opportunity to be in there he got a chance to play and get some action and there were no catastrophes on his watch so I would call that a victory Rhett Brian I believe your player was Roger McCrary that's correct rookie defensive back out of Auburn second round pick Roger McCrary did not get to make the trip because he was a little bit danged but he is back on the practice field now and that's great news for the tight and so I'll say again I'm looking forward to seeing him next Saturday night right here at Nissan Stadium against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers but since I didn't get to see him we did get to see Caleb Farley he gave up one early and lost a guy early but I thought he rebounded well and you know coach Mack will tell you how long and lean and how good this guy could be and we're starting to see some of that availability is the key availability is clearly right now Rhett and I were sitting up there watching practice today and they they were doing a transition drill with the defensive backs which the you know the defensive coach they're two dummies set up and and they'll have their back to the dummies then he'll give them away once they get past the dummies to transition to come back to front and what you're looking for as a coach when you're looking at guys that do that are they taking extra steps are they rounding it off or are they breaking at a sharp angle and we were watching and the player that went before the Caleb Farley did rounded it off I said no Rhett watch Caleb Farley and even even as high cut as he is which means he's got long legs usually high cut players have a hard time breaking down and transitioning because they've got a lot to unwind he was so quick and so this is going to be a special player and I was so happy to see him as Rhett said play as much as he did he needs the time out there too in stress situations. Another guy who really showed up again the other night was Jack Gibbons.  Well the odd thing about that is I mean that's fine for Mike to do that but he doesn't realize that the people out in the public really have no idea who he's talking about so it's our job to inform you who he is coach back he's pretty good looking linebacker. You know and I called him Dr. Gibby on the broadcast Mike Keith is a professional broadcaster I'm just what you see okay so I said that's a nice play by Dr. Gibby. Mike Keith went you know that's Jack Gibbons this is you know but this guy look I coached linebackers for 20 something years in this league and when you've got a guy that's a free agent but that comes in and then starts just he just wants a chance I've got a great example of that of a young linebacker that I coached that came in here that all of a sudden ended up being a really good Titans player was it was a young player from North Carolina State named Steven Tullick was it tall enough was it fast enough but just could play ball I think Dr. Gibby is kind of the same way what do you have nine tackles the other night I mean he showed up those kind of guys now you know for years when I was coaching I would have been in charge of the the rookie classes when they came in it you know orientation just telling them what's gonna happen what's what and the one of the first things I've told him was is it doesn't really matter how you got in these front doors you're in here now now the link that you stay is up to you I think Dr. Gibby's taken advantage of his link to stay here so Jack Gibbons Dr. Gibby is Mike Vrable and Coach Matt Colin 6 3 2 42 he's a Texan who played at Abilene Christian left there and played last year at Minnesota had 92 tackles for the Golden Gophers on what was a good team from them I had a chance to visit with him to provide you with some more background to who Jack Gibbons aka Dr. Gibby really is we'll let you listen to it now on the OTP Jack when did you first hear Mike Vrable refer to you as Dr. Gibby I mean that was pretty quick once I got here he likes to give people nicknames so I guess it can't be a bad thing to have a nickname so I'll take it and run with it but when you heard that you thought is he talking to me right yeah well he had been calling me Gibby already and then after I'd been here a few days he started adding doctor in there and I have he I guess he told the story I was a little bit confused I was like coach you know I wasn't pretty mad and he was like I'm just just joking with you like take a joke but yeah I mean I'll take it okay so all the to all the Titans fans though they just hear him every time he's talking in the media and he brags on you which he does quite a bit which is great he refers to you as Dr. Gibby and a lot of Titans fans have no idea who that yeah I mean yeah I guess it's a I'll take it as a compliment I tried to pride myself on kind of knowing what's going on having a high football IQ and kind of study and stuff so I'll take it take what I can get your academic all-American last year Minnesota though and I guess it Abilene double major accounting and finance 4.0 GPA maybe that's what he's referring it could be yeah my parents made school a big deal since I was a little kid so that's also something I like to pride myself on is just whatever you're doing work hard I didn't be the best you can be so the story about how you got to Minnesota so you're an at your from Texas you're an Abilene you decide you want to play somewhere else last year and you say I'm gonna go to Minnesota you'd never been there how does that happen yeah I mean that was so it was crazy I just hopped in my truck and drove up there no visit nothing it was snow all over the ground and I'd seen snow only handful of time so it was definitely a huge adjustment but I had a good career in Abilene I really loved playing there but just I'd always dreamed of playing at power five school kind of big-time games like that so I just put my name in the transfer portal and some teams started calling Minnesota was my first power five offer and I just felt like it was a great fit and so I just pull the trigger on it and decided to go it was why did that work out so well I think it I think it's a huge testament to it was just a great fit of like culture wise they got a great family culture up there they're looking for guys that are what I try to be just guys that work hard care about the team put the team first play together and I just really loved it there I felt like it was a perfect fit for me and I kind of fit in scheme wise culture wise everything it was just kind of a perfect storm for you and your football career you've pretty much had to fight for everything you've gotten right yeah I mean I was really I mean obviously I went FCS out of high school didn't have a bunch of offers and stuff and all I'm looking for is a chance that's what I wanted when I came here is a chance to compete and feel like I'm getting a chance to compete so you know nothing else I can ask for what do you feel like you're doing well here so far in camp that's catching everybody's attention I don't know I'm just trying to make the most of my opportunities and create a role for myself on the team I'm just focused on getting better every day and doing something in any way it can be offense defense special teams whatever it is to try to help the team win and create a role for myself I'm just kind of focused on second days right now and just playing the best football I can is it nerve-wracking to play linebacker for Mike Vrable no I think it's awesome I mean a guy that's a legend at this position guy had watched growing up won Super Bowls and stuff it's super cool to kind of have that perspective of somebody who's done it for a long time it's funny in meetings and stuff you'll you'll joke I only played 14 years or something when guys maybe don't want to do it the way he he wants it done so I just think it's funny it's it's definitely cool to have that perspective in the room what do you have to do the rest of the way to have a chance to make the roster I think it's just the same thing I've been doing just put my head down keep working try to develop a role for myself that's what we talk about just stacking days on top of each other just keep trying to get better and playing the best I can and if you have that attitude nerves really don't get in the way do they no not really I mean I've kind of a point where I'm just trying to trying to play my best football put my best foot forward play as hard as I can and just kind of let the chips forward in many so just keep doing that we'll see what happens I think they really liked that interview with Jack Gibbons don't you Amy man this guy all of them are going to get 50 jerseys and when they come in here on Saturday night six o'clock for the game against Tampa Bay Buccaneers they're going to be so fired up because if you are one of the OT people you know who Jack Gibbons is and you know when he's referred to as Dr. Gibby who the head coach is now talking about wow what an interview I'm a little I'm a little emotional reaction I mean I thought it was good interviews with undrafted before read I didn't have any idea it would affect people in that way sometimes it leaves a mark yeah thank you so much everyone you were just wonderful for doing that so Amy and I went through an exercise earlier today read I don't know if you did it too he did I did Coach Mack does not like exercises yeah I do but I did it with red okay so the exercise that we went through we do this every year during training camp especially at this point it's August 14th we have cut to 85 on Tuesday we have a cut to 80 a week from Tuesday on the 23rd and then we've got to be down to 53 on August the 30th so what I like to do at this point to sort of ascertain how competitive the next couple weeks are going to be I asked everybody in our group look at a roster and tell me who on this roster is definitely going to be on the team that you are 100% sure now like you couldn't say Jack Gibbons in this case because he's an undrafted free agent I'm not asking you to project the roster I'm saying how many people are for certain on this football team right now like Derek Henry is obviously on the team Ryan Tannehill Jeffrey Simmons so on and so forth my number ended up being 38 Amy what was your number mine was 38 as well wow yeah red 46 Wow you only think there are seven active roster spots open right now yes wow he's more confident than I am yeah me too now I do have six more that I circled that I'm pretty sure about so I could go to 44 oh see I went back I did it twice okay just for the sake of making sure I was consistent I had 35 the second time okay so I went I went backwards I've got more more competition that did you end up doing this Coach Mack yeah I read that Rhett and I kind of went through this or ourselves and the first time the 46 number was a was a little high and I think in my in my personal opinion it somewhere around 40 to 43 okay right now right now and the other thing Mike that I'm gonna throw out there on this sheet of paper there are some people maybe one maybe two maybe three that are not even on this sheet of paper right that will be on the 53 man roster because there is so much roster manipulation that goes on in the National Football League after the final cut so let's say for fun your numbers 40 our numbers 38 as you go into this week of practice against Tampa Bay Wednesday and Thursday as you go into the Tampa Bay preseason game as you go into two practices against Arizona and a preseason game with them there is still a lot to be determined people had better not led up because not only could somebody else on this roster take their spot as you alluded to there are other guys in the league who may end up taking their roster spot yeah and let me talk about those stressful situations that we just visited about earlier when another team comes to end the practice against you that's a stressful situation because these guys are now used to practicing against one another for quite a while and the familiarity that they get with how someone runs their route or how this guy is going to be in a one on one all of those things become familiar and so what you'd like to do is bring the stress meter up by bringing different people in and the two things that happen I've done a lot of joint practices when I was coaching both as an assistant and a head coach and here's the things that you talk about as both staffs when you're talking about doing this you want to get matchups in the drills that you want to do the other thing that you get to do see when you practice against yourself well then you've got to service yourself okay now they will have the Titans offense and the Bucks defense on one field and then it'll be just the reversed on the other field and so the number of reps that you can get can either be extended or they can be quality reps against the same person time after time this is a big deal I think having these two teams come into work against the Titans at this time especially the younger players that we need to find out how they're going to be quote under the lights this is an ideal time I think John Robinson and Mike Vrable did a very smart thing knowing that our first preseason game was away but then when the other two teams agreed to stay for a week and practice before we played a preseason game this is a big time evaluation time Mike big time red I think the last 16 days are gonna be a lot more exciting than the first 16 17 18 days because this is a good roster it is a veteran roster and there is tremendous competition all over the board it's one of the more competitive by just depth and those things rosters that I've seen on a Titans roster in quite some time and coach Mack laid it out right you did too these joint practices are as important and in a lot of cases more important than the preseason games themselves because you get to truly look at how your personnel is against their personnel and then the lights come on you do what you do you know on Saturday night but there's a lot that has to be sorted out between now and then and you're right I think you're exactly right this next 16 days is gonna be a roller coaster ride coach Mike Vrable was asked if he was disappointed that Tom Brady is not going to be here this week he did not like that question very much as you would expect but is he disappointed Tom Brady's not gonna be here because of the player Tom Brady is when you talk about testing your people against the best you know that that's what that's what you would want but I can understand why he wouldn't like that question so much you know we know the relationship so I mean it because it is it's a personal you know thing with that nature so but when you talk about when you and we'll still get plenty of testing but we we saw a couple of years ago when Tom Brady came in here I mean that was a surgical seven on seven that he put on and that's that and that's and that's what you want I mean all the years that I coached I mean we went to Berlin one year and I was with the Bears and we we were spent a week with the San Francisco 49ers we were a great team but you know how much it helped my defensive guys to be able to practice against Joe Montana every day I mean it's just that's what you want in this league it's the best against the best and so I can understand though why Mike Vrable would not you know address it and we'll get plenty of good work without Tom Brady here maybe are you disappointed Tom Brady's not going to be here you know I'm not actually I mean best of luck to him and his preparations for the season but no it's always just such a circus when Tom Brady's around there's a lot of hoopla everybody wants to see this guy I mean he's just a player there's lots of players out there it's the greatest quarterback of all time yeah and that's fine but like what a circus he's 45 years old he sure is one of the five best quarterbacks in the league which is so great I mean God love Tom Brady however it's a circus and I am a little thankful that the circus is going to be somewhere else really I don't need all of that gift the people what they want Mikey hang on I'm just not into all the fit everybody you're gonna want a live audience every week I'm coming in as your reinforcement because I feel the same way see when he was here two years ago yeah it was neat seeing in practice and seeing what he did whatever fine but it's way too many people there sweaty and smelly like the rest of them coach you guys are seeing the true character now of Amy Wells you know we have a Titans Amy coach Mac podcast and you understand his name is first Titans Amy because I'm scared of her and really when you when you get down to it I mean she is she is really really hardcore about some things and you don't want to cross her so Amy if you're happy that he's not here I'm happy just know that the work aspect of it is valid you want your guys going up against the best guys yes but I mean there are a lot of good players for the bucks they did win a Super Bowl within the last couple of years like they're a pretty good team I think you can find some other competition to get some pretty good work done I don't need that guy running around you're just excited to see Blaine Gabbard he did go to Mizzou M.I.Z. yes speaking of M.I.Z. the great Ashley Farrell threw out an outstanding question for coach Mack when we were doing the exercise earlier today when teams go through this process through the whole cut-down process coach do they do a board and put players in other teams and their own team in pods like you do a draft board so they can assess where they might be better if they pick up a player from another team well I'm so proud of Ashley isn't that a great question that's a that's a wonderful question I mean I six years ago when I came here Amy Wells and Ashley Farrell asked me to sit down and spend we spent five months grinding tape teaches the NFL they wanted to learn their notebooks were full both of these I mean they're impressed that's a great question the answer is yes and a great a great example of that guys is just think about what John Robinson and his entire personnel group did both collegiate Lee and in the NFL because you have two distinct personnel groups college groups and the professional groups think of what they did last year bringing 91 players in here we played 91 players last year and still won 12 ball games were the number one seed that that that's an amazing amazing ability to do something now they will do the same thing now they have they have people assigned to every division out watching these teams right now and so that the answer to ask this question is yes you have some people that you will put up there that you know are untouchable for you but also the people that you send out say I send Amy Wells out and she's got the entire NFC East she will know she'll say hey she'll come back and tell Coach Vrable these guys are kind of on the fence with this team this is this is how strong this team is here these guys might be available let's let's bring out our reports from college let's bring out our our professional reports and see where they stack up with the guys that might be on the fence with us at this position they absolutely do that it's a great question by Ashley read how many do you think they bring in when it's all said and done how many veterans do they add to this roster when when they get down to the very end I must say three or four I think there'll be there's a chance a couple of undrafted they have in their own training camp right now the Titans make this roster I think there's three or four veterans possibly that could be added to this thing even after the cut before week one is that your number is three or four I think so yes Amy yeah I was gonna say four I was gonna say three I think so I think for this group who's in here right now thereafter 50 roster spots at this moment I think so Mike and and and the key is I've been on all types of teams in my years in this league some really good and some really bad and so if you've got a not so good team that number is usually pretty high right that you start to go get this is a good football team but they can they can be better at those other slots possibly and that's what they've got their eye on now you always want to be able to have the cuts be really hard because if the cuts are really hard then you know you've got to kind of squad you want to start the year with all right so rules and we wanted to let the OT people know some of the points of emphasis on the rules I'm going to run through these rather quickly we want you to be ahead so when you are watching Titans football as rookie season ticket members as when you're here on Saturday night or whether you're watching on television somewhere or hopefully listening to the radio you will know what the points of emphasis are for the preseason sportsmanship and taunting that goes on they are continuing to try to get as much of the taunting out of the game as possible not because they don't like showboating but because it leads to problems coach well it's a lot of problems especially on the field I mean I when I first started coaching in this league 37 years ago that it was the Wild West I mean everything went everything went and that wasn't a great deal but we lived with it because that's where it was now it's much better the way it is now you don't need it all right here's the second one and I want to get your thoughts on this there are changements in enforcement to the roughing the passer penalty if you are a defender on the ground and you swipe at grab or wrap a passer you are no longer deemed to be making forcible contact and you will not be penalized for that so if you're on the ground crawling towards the quarterback and you grab his ankle that is no longer a penalty glancing or grazing blows to the quarterback's head particularly when matching the quarterback's hand attempting to alter a pass in other words you're trying to bat a pass down so you're putting your hand in front of his and when you do you might catch his face mask or catch the side of his helmet barely that is no longer deemed to be violent and will no longer be penalized so they are taking some things out of roughing the passer well and I like this because you know the emphasis for several seasons now has been on safety of the players and in particular the quarterback position but how many times have you seen somebody's team and it's happened to the Titans to where it's been a grazing blow to a quarterback that was a costly penalty that maybe was the difference in something and I think it's good that they've reeled in this just a little bit still keeping them quarterback protected but looking at this with a more keen eye well the thing about the quarterback you couldn't they put it in there where you couldn't hit him below the knees all right and then the reason for that is if a quarterback is manipulating the cylinder which forms when it's not a pocket it's really a cylinder because the ends curve around and then you've got a solid front when they do that and and they have to step forward to throw that's where you see a lot of quarterback lower leg injuries happen because the the plant leg is solid in the ground cleats in the ground and then you come in and you hit it there's no where for it to go okay so they've tried to take all of that out now what they did before they put this part in now then it became anytime you touched him below the knee no matter how it happened it was a penalty I like what they're doing here the other thing with the match in the hand and when Mike talks about matching a hand he talks about guys when you're rushing the passer Amy you be the quarterback put your right hand up just put you right in the higher than that please thank you okay just stay after me yeah just stay there and my throwing am I high-fiving what is the motion just keep it there for a minute I'll be through in a minute let's say so what when they've got a right hand up if you're rushing from the quarterbacks hand you want to match it see you want to match it with your right hand and get across and match it but and so what they want to do is a lot of times when you match it if you miss it you'll graze the quarterback's face or graze the side of his helmet that's not my face that's okay now go ahead put it down that I would never hit you in the face so to me to me I like it what they're just trying to do they put it in a broad general rule to for protection now they're trying to refine it and I like it all right so holding the league like the way holding offensive holding was in force last year and they want it to continue they don't want all the holding calls so the emphasis for calls point of attack holds and clear path to the quarterback holds coach Mack what does that mean well that means anytime that there is a there is a the cylinder again they're throwing and a lineman is beat and egregiously reaches out just to wrap a guy up so he doesn't flatten the quarterback so it's a clear path to the quarterback and he's he's he's grabbed by some way either from behind by the jersey most of the times what they'll do is they'll reach around and grab the waist and turn them they want that called and I'm all for this because to me a lot of times holding calls can be so so nebulous and they're big calls all right the fourth one Amy I want you to touch on this one the league wants officials to I'm just gonna read this verbatim because I think it's interesting right the league wants officials to focus more on running with defenders and wide receivers on the deep balls the league it does not believe that defenders who are running in phase with wide receivers should be punished for basic hand fighting if that contact does not affect the receivers ability to catch the football the same goes for receivers who are hand fighting with defensive backs when it comes to offensive pass interference the league believes if officials are running with the play the better to make a determination on this incidental contact should not be called because this is the most costly foul in the NFL it is not a 15-yard penalty it is a spot foul so if a DB is running with a receiver and they're just battling back and forth and the ball falls in complete they're not gonna call it right and they want the official in better position to call yeah and it puts the onus kind of on the official to make sure that they are there so they can make a call and make a common-sense call I mean being able to be there evaluate what was going on was it egregious did it impact someone's ability to make a play call it was it not egregious was it just along the regular realm of you know doing what you do to defend or try to get separation or whatever okay I mean they want to have someone there who can make a good evaluation on what was happening in that moment and not have it be a one-size-fits-all ruling that doesn't necessarily apply to every situation they're kind of taking the one size fits all nature out of it and getting a little bit more in the moment context common sense in there this is the most devastating penalty in our game it really is it's a game flipper it's a game changer and I remember you know when it came in and it came in to accelerate scoring that's why it came in because before any of this is in and before any of the rules were in where you couldn't contact them but for five yards down the field you know we used to could beat them up I mean you could beat them up all you wanted and so this was put in for scoring and it's gotten a little bit out of hand and it is a game changer I'm glad that they're doing this and Amy gave a great explanation for it because there is not just one fits all and I like the fact that and and most and most of your side judges your back judges are already lined up back there but most of your side judges have to run with that play they have to run with the play and and I'm all for what they're trying to do so coach Mack is a follow-up with them doing this and changing this rule if they if they enforce this regularly that's going to change the way offenses do a little bit of their business because sometimes it's just flat out we can go out there and have our guy run around and he can draw a defensive pass interference well and that's some of the ones you see where the ball is just going up really in desperation situations that's why guys think about this and and you know lifetime coach in the league I know this you never see it called you don't hail Marys do you know how much contact there is on hail Marys you guys know what that is we have a bunch of guys jumping up for it it's never called right it's never called on Hail Marys and there's pass interference on when you're coaching defense and it's a last minute you say interfere with them because they're not going to call it they won't call that because it's it's a game changing play it can be a game flipper okay so you're gonna say do as much contact as you want I think this is going to start going towards that as far as if it's egregious you're yanking you're pulling you're pulling a guy down impeding his way to the ball they'll call it but some of those contacts that they call and and both look both for and against right both for and against I like what we're doing here with this I'm going to be interested to see in the preseason what we had one we had one in our game you know when trailing Berks was down there we had one with trailing Berks that was a that was a combat catch you know throw up down there deep deep deep in the end zone you know and that that that possibly could have been called I think this was a reason why it wasn't alright here's the next one Rhett you're gonna love this one quarterbacks have been notified if they are running north south along the boundary in other words if they're running down the sideline and they're looking for extra yards and quarterbacks have been given the benefit that they've been able to do that little toe dance at the end of plays and pick up three five extra yards knowing that if they get hit there's gonna be a flag throw well now the league is saying and this is a point of emphasis if they are looking to pick up extra yards before going out of bounds they're considered runners and are free to be contacted unless they are clearly out of bounds the same holds true for running backs and receivers trying to pick up extra yards the league wants officials to examine plays once the runner is clearly out of bounds for potential personal foul penalties like what happened to Jalen Hertz the Eagles quarterback in the preseason game the other day against the Jets right so he's almost off the white he's two steps out of bounds and the guy waxing that's a penalty if he's on the edge and the defender has committed and does not know he's going out of bounds for sure they're gonna give the defender the benefit of the doubt because they're saying he's a runner and with all of these running quarterbacks in the league now the majority of which can now run it seems like a fair change so in essence doing the tightrope to get another first down is going to have consequences so what you got to do is get as much as you can but do the tightrope on the other side out of bounds and hope somebody hits you and you get to draw you're you're plodding yes it's called strategy Mikey but I mean there has been what we've seen in recent years from defenders is they have pulled up in multiple situations with a quarterback and the quarterback knows they're gonna have to pull up and so they've taken advantage of they've taken advantage of that to gain extra yardage and the competition committee has said not cool no no and that's absolutely right and I'm glad that they I'm glad they zeroed in on this it's kind of like Kenny Pickett when he had the fake slide and took off running when he was in college you know ran for 50 57 yards the quarterbacks need to be protected but they also need to understand that once they put themselves in a situation where they are a runner then they can get hit look out Tom Brady and it all comes home right there a lot of Tom Brady here okay here's the next one once a runner's progress has been clearly stopped officials are being asked to blow the play dead more quickly the idea is that fouls often occur in these situations where players are not sure if the play is over both offensive and defensive players and this is the reason for a point of emphasis I think it's a good rule and I think it would help if the officials would actually do this whistle blow the whistle then it's done just blow a whistle and you know a lot of this and a lot of this comes from you know offensive linemen our coach too and very right rightfully so if your runner still alive go clean the pile if your runner still alive go clean the pile defenders are also the same way if that pile is moving go in there and hit it you know and so to me it just makes sense because what happens is the longer you extend it the more out of control it gets well for two reasons you have the player safety part of it where linemen get ankles rolled up on and then the other part is and we've seen Titans games where it got a little chippy and you know maybe whoever comes to Nissan Stadium they're not big fan of theirs right and so the longer it goes the more things like that escalate I think if they'll blow this dead early and often when this happens it's gonna be a benefit in both of those areas are you for this I'm always for player safety okay all right there's no but I think you're gonna say but there's not gonna be as many fights I knew you knew I was gonna say that I do like when things get a little heated and a little feisty so I mean just give it a beat then does that come from when you and Jarrell Casey getting a fight with the Jaguars that time Jarrell Casey and I fight some people yeah probably I really enjoyed being part of that let's retell the story tell the story it's 2000 what is it 17 yes 2017 it was so great we're trying to make the playoffs we got to beat Jacksonville we just beat Jacksonville very exciting I'm supposed to interview Jarrell Casey after the game I go up to him we're on the field all right Jarrell you're ready I'm just waiting for the signal Jarrell is great the Jarrell is the best so yeah sure absolutely great game he's all you know he's exhausted but excited because they just won and so we're standing there and I'm waiting for them to give me the signal in my ear to go and it's like okay three two and some guy who played for the Jags I don't remember who it was came over and start talking to Jarrell and I hear Jarrell say man you don't want to do that and I'm like hey wait a minute no no no not yet we can't go now wait and I turn around and Jarrell's just throwing hands with this guy and I was like this is it I'm in a fight and it's happening around me so I'm involved and then all of a sudden some of the other guys from like the defensive line start running over and here comes Brian Iraq Poe and Derek Morgan's coming over at that time and they're all getting involved and I won't leave because I'm in I'm part of this now we're teammates and so I'm looking around I'm looking for my guy I don't have a guy because nobody cares about me but I'm looking and then it kind of fizzles out and ends and the show's over but then Monday I walk into the building and Brian Iraq Poe comes up to me and goes you didn't move in that fight I said no sir I didn't and he said that was pretty hardcore I said yeah it is and it's Brian Iraq Poe so what he really said was that was pretty hardcore this is it I'm a fighter now I just did it so ever since then Jarrell and I from time to time will recall the time that we fought all of the Jags so as the years have gone on it's gotten bigger and more intense and God what a time to be alive that was so great you were great yeah I really yeah went from Titans Amy to hardcore hardcore but I do really enjoy some scuffles happy was she was she was so happy she was so happy ratutas violence Amy no no she was right she's the one that talks about player safety being important yeah I've heard her tell the story since then and she's told it as to where she got a guy in an arm bar on the ground put a choke hold on him grows every time she tells it right no she's just took up more and more every time the truth of the story is though when it started she didn't move there is a picture and they were two feet away from her swing it wing it was it was on it was great Amy I was impressed that's why she has her own podcast now you're gonna clap for her again aren't you yeah that's that's why I say I'm still scared of her it was just great I like the passion see this is the fun of doing this right yeah alright so the last one illegal contact calls were down to 36 last year the normal number is 97 so they are gonna call illegal contact the league wants officials to focus on enforcement of the rule by abiding by the strict interpretation that eligible receivers cannot be contacted once five yards beyond the line of scrimmage that can happen however when the quarterback is outside the pocket the league knows that determination is difficult but they are putting the pressure on the crews to a don't let defenders do this and be make sure you have an idea as a group and you'll have to work together when the quarterback is outside the pocket because they think it's important not to let guys get mugged past five yards the only thing that I hope that they that they work through with this and again you know I was with Jeff Fisher for a lot of years he was on the competition committee was the you know co-chair of that committee for 16 years so I just hope that they get enough enough of a bright lights vision on the fact that I really don't like that the contact away from the play the contact away from the play is bothersome to me still you know and I hope that they put all of that into the purview when they're looking at much like what they've done with holding exactly I hope that's what they do you think there's a common theme in in all of the the areas I just mentioned Amy I think the common theme is common sense I think that they have taken the rules and kind of brought them back into the realm of reflecting what actually happens in the game I think for a while you know they really want to emphasize holding so they called every holding instance on the field no matter what it was no matter where it happened they really want to emphasize player safety so they kind of maybe overprotected the quarterback a little bit now we're bringing it back into what is actually happening within the context of us your standard football game and are making allowances for context and are making allowances for what is actually conceivably going to happen throughout the course of a game so it seems to me that they're making the letter of the law reflect an actual football game a little bit more and I really like that I think rent you know you and I've been doing this together for 25 years and everybody likes to talk about the good old days and certainly we have memories going all the way back to the Memphis year and all of those sorts of things but I have to say and I thought this the other night in Baltimore it's a better game with with the rules that they have even with some of the safety things I know some people say oh it's two hand touch I don't believe that I think there's still physicality but I think I think it's a better game I thought that was a good preseason game the other night it was maybe the second half of the fourth quarter when it got a little slob absolutely and for anybody that wants to say it's two hand touch ask any of these players they'll show you the bruises they'll show you how stiff and sore they are but no listen I think my coach max said it perfect they had broad general rules that they have gone under some refinement to make this more of an applicable situation it's why I believe the National Football League is the best product of the four major sports in North America because they constantly are looking to make it better not only for the players involved but for all of you season ticket members who are gonna watch every week I like what Amy's Amy's answer was great I mean it really was Mike said common theme and she said common sense and I think that covers it I think that's that just says it all great job coach you've given us a good summary today well I'm not smart no you are you're very smart these people appreciate Coach Mack right this is the first time I've met all of these people so I want them to think I'm smart okay once they listen to me well don't let him tell you he's not smart because that's not true they'll figure out that I'm not no let them think that when they leave today all right so let's update a couple things going on Amy and I have a live look-in on all of the Titans digital channels from the practice on Wednesday August 17th we'll start at 9 30 and so if you want to see what's happening in that practice and you can't make it over to Ascension st. Thomas sports park Amy and I will have a live look-in we will Tennessee Titans calm or all of the Titans social channels Twitter is a good place to check we'll get you there my please the shout out we hey we had practice today it was family day had all the kids there from the Titans you know employees it was wonderful I loved it all the kids there's a young man Brendan Brendan Myers Brendan Myers came up to me in his mother works for Shannon Shannon works for the Titans said coach Mackie just wanted to meet you he listens to every OTP and so I said I promise you that today when we do this OTP we will give you a shout out so Mikey shout out shout out shout out to Brandon Myers Brendan Myers thanks brother all right well he even got applause he got applause that's amazing Brendan that's all and we also need to give people to clap for you that one no no they already did there it is guys I love the live audience it's like the best thing so much better than it's so much better than we bring them to all the OTP we could bring them on like this Saturday five o'clock Central time Amy Wells Rhett Brian Titans countdown on 104 five the zone and all of our Titans radio stations throughout the Mid-South yes Titans countdown presented by our good friends at Farm Bureau Health Plans who also sponsor the OTP and we're gonna have a feature on a young man who you got to see last Thursday night who really started putting on a show named David and Nanny and David is a player from Houston he's an outside linebacker undrafted he had two quarterback sacks and two plays the second one was a strip sack and he's got a great story did not start playing football till his junior year in high school and here he's played the preseason game and has some things to put on tape nice bright young man will do a feature on him you'll hear from the general manager John Robinson we always talk to coach rabble with his keys to the game and also what has happened since the last preseason game leading up to Tampa and all of the joint practices and you know Amy Wells and I started off by going rapid fire and giving you some sound from the players and the stories you're gonna need to follow and then in segment to coach Mack comes in and we go to school and he tells you and I promise you if you listen Titans countdown you listen to the second segment right there you're gonna know bound 515 exactly what could or most likely will take place in the ball game because he is smart contrary to his own popular belief and kickoff is six o'clock central time you'll all be here right yes Tom Brady won't but you'll all be here yes and so then a week from tomorrow week from Monday we start the Mike Vrable show at 6 central time is 22nd so we've got a lot coming up we've got a Titans all excess out right now yep which is a really good show which you could find at a television station near you and they generally show it multiple times so lots going on and we're so excited for our rookie season ticket members to be here thank you for joining us for this OTP I think you see we have a lot of fun and that's the whole gist of this it is a lot of fun to be associated with your Tennessee Titans so for Rhett Bryan coach Dave McGinnis Amy Wells and Mike Keith we thank all of you for listening and for being here for the OTP


My name is Herbert Miller, and the first time I saw Father Capen was when I was laying in a ditch wounded. Well, Herbert Miller was a man that was in Father Capen's unit, and he and other men were trying to escape, were trying to make it back to safety.  I looked and this American come across the road, and he said he saw an American soldier pushing this North Korean out of the way. It was Father Capen, he pushed the man aside, why that soldier never shot him, I'll never know. Army chaplain A.M.L. Capen will posthumously receive the Medal of Honor for his acts of valor during the Korean War. I think if he were asked whether or not he wanted this award he would have probably said heck no, that he didn't deserve the award. He'd be humbled, he'd tell you point blank I don't deserve it, but that's the kind of person he was. But the men that were in the prison camp have been working for this Father Capen to receive this award literally from the time they got out of the prison camp. I wonder why it took so long, the man should have got it right off the bat for the things he did. From the stories shared by his fellow soldiers, to the memorials at the church where his sermons began, Chaplain Capen's selfless service is eternal. He was there in the prison camp for about six or seven months before he passed away. Two and a half years later, when the rest of the men were freed from the prison camp, they were still speaking of Father Capen and how he had touched their lives. How could you forget somebody that saved your life? I was looking right up the barrel at gun. He was known as a soldier's chaplain. He wasn't a boss. He was one of us. We found out later that he died and we knew they'd killed him.


That's what's happening. What's going on? Well, it's a very good time to have a sale, isn't it? It is. Ho, ho, ho And actually what's very interesting also is that there are some stocks fabulous companies that have just been beaten down over the last six to eight weeks and There are stocks that look very overboard So I think that this is a great time to be looking at how you can set up a portfolio Getting started to go into January of 2022 and we've raised some cash And I think this is kind of what we're looking at right now It doesn't really matter about the Fed because you're looking at the Nasdaq and the Nasdaq saying quite a bit of a struggle here You're looking at the semiconductor index. I went through them on my show the Tiger technicians hour today And I went through yesterday There are a lot of these semiconductors that look like they've been fantastic leaders and now they just need a breather So I think this rotation is get fascinating and when you're talking about markets Usually you get the defensive. I don't mean Raytheon. I mean stocks like Coca-Cola and general general Mills you these are stocks that when markets are going down sharply though These are the stocks that people go into. Yes, but you know, we've been at close to record highs for the past number of weeks and You've got the combination of General Mills getting to almost all-time highs And you've got you know some of the some of the indexes that were very close to high So this is a very unusual mark and I I've seen subscribers. We've got it We can't be afraid. We've got to look at what's working and go with that You put in your stops if you're long or if you're short you put in your buy stuff Whatever it is and just let the market tell you I mean there are patterns that I follow all the time For instance is this one that looks like where the price rises sharply and then a sauce to come down a sauce to make low Lower highs and lower lows then all of a sudden it finds a base and it really sharpening it breaks that trend line That was coming down and that's usually very positive. Well, yeah I'm gonna keep the chart up this in the middle the other group with a great background But look here's the down on the left. This is the dating chart Where did it stop a stop right at a trend line at there? There it is This is the pattern that we were looking at straight line up and then you come down So it's very so me is very simple if the if the doubt regardless of what the Fed says because the Dow is holding up a Little bit better than the others because it's got a different kind of a mix Not everything there is involved with whether or not rates go up Because you have some you have some health care. You have you know, you have a mix Insurance so at the same time I'm looking at this and I'm saying if the Dow at any point in the next three four But by early next week if it's got traded into the 36,000 that's a nice break to the upside and if the Dow closes under 35,000 it's a 35,000 587 right now. It says hey be ready for this arch formation What's the arch formation? He has another pattern that we look at all the time on this particular choice He has a red line comes down and then it makes a rally and then it turns down usually the peak a or a peak B And that's the H pattern or dreaded H pattern because if it takes out that left side low can go much deeper It did exactly that look right. There's the H pattern to broke down. Well now's a much larger one So if we start to see the Dow under 35,000 100 35,000 means oh, oh be careful because we could come all the way back to the 200 period moving average So I think for for my way of looking at the market the levels that I'm looking at are Very clear and that's that makes it better than saying. Oh my god What's the Fed going to do is how the market responds and we can see in the QQ Q We're talking about that just a moment ago We're going to type that right there. So the QQ Q the index 100 Failed at that arch formation right at that resistance line there again if the QQ Q breaks under 378 90 the low of weaker so go That's that's negative It's going to be going much lower and if it manages somehow other to get to 401 is trading in 388 right now in the next week. It says it's overcome whatever the Fed is Decision is and it's pushing higher. So I think the parameters and levels to watch are quite clear What the Fed is going to do? We know that they're gonna have to talk about raising rates we know that they're in a difficult position because There are a lot of cross counts at this particular point. Is this the perfect time to actually be raising rates? It's going to be very interesting and you know this very well in the housing sector Look at this the housing sector has done so well even with the rates at the upper level even though They're very low The Philadelphia housing index is just off its most recent high of 530. It's at 512. So I think As far as what the Fed does We know that it's it's the speed with which they do it. I think that's the way we got a look at it Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna be no doubt interesting because Well, you'll hear this tonight folks. Okay, and this is pretty wild man on the European Union now their their inflation right now is running as bad as eyes folks and they came out on the The woman that's in charge of the European Central Bank They're coming out this saying that hey man next year. It's only gonna be 2% and 2 to 3% the following year It's like really but yeah, this happened about three hours ago And it's like you gotta be kidding me man I don't know what school these got these folks went to but it must be the school of the blind leading the blind is something Because they have a different crystal ball than we do man. I I just you know, I mean that seems to me like just a blatant, you know how We're all in the probability business, but how do you go from like six to seven percent to two and less like in 12 months. Yeah, I do know that has historically once rates start to rise I don't mean just one quick rally, but once they start to do that over different quarters It's really tough to get them back in the box rates Once they start once you get this inflationary aspect It's very difficult to curb it. So in fact, I was doing with someone earlier today. They were talking about Volcker I mean what Volcker did was very see I mean, you know, yeah, that rates that were way up You know smoggy just some of the 16 17 percent. Yeah, I was paying 14 and a half So I bought my first house 1971 was 14 and a half percent, right? I mean and now you're talking about something completely different. So that In the end we will know because as far as I'm concerned price dictates the trend And I'm just saying look we're looking at the TLT right now It's at 150 a break into the 150 threes says oh oh rates are yes rates are definitely coming down They're coming down sharp, but if there's a sudden plunge in the TLT Well, you just bring up a great point. So so what happens there folks is this?  We have Worldwide they're buying our bonds. So, you know, we all keep looking at the United States But guess what? This is a worldwide phenomenon folks for us bonds. Yeah pretty well. That's right. Have a great one Have a safe one Basil. Thank you. Stay right there folks come right back


many adults derive their meaning in life from having children, having families. I don't have children, so it's been very important to find and even impose meaning on my life. I call MDMA the chemical of connection. This medicine encourages you to reach out and figuratively or literally touch another person and deepen that connection. And that's been very meaningful to me. Better Living Through Chemistry was the official slogan of DuPont chemicals for decades. It became the ironic creed-a-core of counterculture hippies in the 1960s, who started to experiment with psychedelic drugs ranging from LSD to mescaline to magic mushrooms. One of those old hippies is Charlie Winninger, a 71-year-old Brooklyn-based psychotherapist and relationship specialist who New York Newsday once dubbed the Love Doctor. Winninger has recently come out of what he calls the chemical closet with his new book Listening to Ecstasy, the transformative power of MDMA, which is both a how-to guide and memoir of how this drug impacted his relationship with his wife Shelley, a retired nurse. In 2000 she was out of a bad marriage, a repressive marriage, and she wanted to spread her wings and fly. And she learned that I was a psychonaut, one who does psychedelics. And this book is largely about our story and how MDMA can really be used as emotional superglue for relationships and added a whole other layer of intimacy and closeness for us. Winninger is at the forefront of a psychedelic renaissance that consciously builds on the lessons of the 1960s to deliver not just more effective therapy, but what he calls serious fun.  When I'm high on MDMA, my mind quiets down and I feel my heart. And I feel this sensual aliveness, this chemical affirmation of my spirit. And it's like the sun itself is rising in my heart.  And I can look out at where I've been, where I am in my life, and perhaps to the horizon where I want to go. And then I can come back down and rededicate myself to the way I want to be living. MDMA was first synthesized by pharmaceutical giant Merck back in 1912 and rediscovered decades later in the mid 1960s by Maverick chemist Alexander Shulgin, who liked its ability to increase emotions and empathy among users. Therapists started using it in counseling sessions, but after it gained a reputation as a party and rave drug, it was banned by the Drug Enforcement Administration in 1985. Thanks to the decades-long efforts of the Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies or MAPS, MDMA-assisted psychotherapy is now at stage three clinical trials for FDA approval. If the experience of marijuana is any indication, medical use could eventually lead to the legalization of MDMA for recreational purposes as well. As befits both a tribal elder and a medical professional, Winninger stresses the intentional use of drugs as a means to an end. In the psychedelic community, there's an emphasis on integrating psychedelic experiences that is learning to turn states into traits, learning to turn the experience of, for example, a good MDMA high to translate that into your life and bring it into your life in a sober way, because we spend most of our time, hopefully, sober. It's taken a long time for the culture to largely forget the polarization and violent polarization that happened in the 60s and early 70s and have that generation gap reduced and have traumas like the Vietnam War become a memory so that psychedelics can now reemerge in using the medical model as a healing force in the time when we need healing very much. As psychedelics become more mainstream and people realize that they can use it to restore the lost heart of their relationship, or they can use it to build upon a good relationship. They can use it to, we call it recreational use, I prefer the term, use. Even as Winninger says that MDMA and other substances can help shrink the gap between generations, he also underscores that people's needs and bodies change with age. Past the age of 35 or 40, the way to keep a happy long-term relationship with these wonderful medicines is to not abuse them, which takes some discipline because the experience can be so good that you want to do it again and again, but I limit it to four or five times a year. That way I can keep it up into my 70s. So we plan these things very carefully and it gives us so much to look forward to in life.


Thank you So hello everyone Just before we start I'm really interested who of you came only because of the name of this talk Because I'm doing research. I'm interested whether the name sells or not But yeah, I'm I'm Jan I'm software engineer at NS1 and I would like to talk about Tool that we open source recently. It's called flamethrower and it's DNS performance testing tool This whole started about two years ago We started working on a new like custom DNS server for our company and we needed to test particular features and the existing existing tools like DNS perf like flamethrowers inspired by DNS perf Was didn't didn't get every or didn't contain everything we needed Particular thing that we are interested in was like source port distribution DNS perfuses one single port So when you actually want to test this in some real production setup, you realize that the traffic patterns are completely different then from real clients we also wanted something that has much better TCP support and TCP in general in the DNS port used to be a second-class citizen Like the support is not always perfect in DNS servers. So we needed a tool first To test it to make sure that our server worse worse like well or as we expect we also wanted something that can generate realistic traffic patterns and Since the beginning we wanted to integrate this tool into our CI CD pipeline Because as you are working on a server adding feature, we are interested how the performance changes The flamethrower lives at Github and our DNS work like organization We open source is like early this year at the beginning of January DNS work for you don't for you who don't know the organization is or the arc stands for operations analytic research center is a community of of people from like DNS for operators software vendors Top-level domain Like registrars and so on so we are happy that we can host this this project there and Shortly after we open sourced flamethrower DNS birth move to a DNS arc as well and yesterday also DNS was moved there. So I think flamethrower is in pretty good company So I would like to start with just simple quick start just to give you some idea what this tool does Because later I will talk about some internal architecture and I don't I want you have to some idea how this like works from the user perspective so On our side, there is some sample invocation of the of the utility you are on the binaries called flame and you give it Some parameters. So in this case We are sending some queries to server a NS example of the test and we are saying sending one some same query over and over The record name will be full full example the test and we query for the SOA type the dash queue configures a query rate. So this means 2,000 queries per second and Dash L like limits the execution time. So this will run for five seconds and So so the flying will like first output some some like basic information about what's going on And then it will generate like short stats every second and at the end it will like print out Like the result in like human readable form I run it At the airport before I before I left to this conference. So you can see for this query a lot of surf fails It was probably some DNS firewall in the way Like internally the tool is written in C++ You need relatively new tooling you need C++ 14 or it should work with C++ 13 But it's it's likely that we will soon use something that requires the plus or 17 We use LDNS as a DNS library to construct the packets and We also use UVW, which is really nice wrapper for lip UV The UV is like a sync IO framework It's used for instance in not not resolver. It's used in Node.js It's pretty nice library and UVW provides Like pretty nice interface for C++. So so it's much easier. It uses lambdas it uses It can handle the memory allocation for you So so it's pretty nice. And if you have some time at the end time I might get get into some details about UVW Like internally framework. It's it's not a rocket science. There's only only a couple of components There's some kind of payload generator that prepares the DNS queries that will be sent Then there is a traffic generator that handles the networking so it accrues TCO like UDP sockets TCP sessions sends the queries This closely interacts with with the rate control because the the payload generator can Or the traffic generator can send send the queries in some batches and sometimes you won't just like put limit on on top of that So that's that's what the rate control is there for and there's Yet another component to collect the metrics in format. It is useful for instance for for like machine machine processing So talk about about the individual components the payload generators These these are the ones that we We implemented The study one is the the simplest one that I showed at the beginning in a quick start You just sense the query for a single single name and type Like over File is another pocket generator this actually compatible a DNS pair so for DNS pair if you could like write the text file that has Like record name and record type on each line so we can process the same same format as well there is a generator that Generates just random garbage non valid DNS packets. So this is really really useful It probably will like won't crash your DNS server, but it's useful for instance if you want to test your your monitoring Because what would be realized when we are testing our service that for instance the tooling that we use to collect metrics Doesn't see this kind of queries at all because it's not a query It's it's malformed and the parsers in the metrics collectors are not expected. Just just random junk Then there are like three very similar similar generators that generate valid DNS packets, but with random Domain names so the number Q name just Uses like prep ends a random numeric label as a first Like label for the name Random Q name That's something very similar But it's like generates again random possibly binary query name like DNS specification Says that in the domain name you can have only like letters numbers underscore Whatever but in theory you can put even binary binary in the query names like binary values Like for instance binary zero like most of the DNS software can handle that It's not all about a specification, but it's it's interesting to play with this as well and then random label which Most of the people in DNS know like two years ago the mirror attacks It was essentially this like random random prefix attacks for some domains So we can simulate this with with this payload generator as well So you generate your traffic and this come goes into like the traffic generator which actually handles the networking At a moment the flamethrower can run only in a single track. So So all the like operation on on several sockets are like Driven by the by the IO it's is the leap UV style like asynchronous, but in a single track You are switching the context The max square rate we You should expect on a single core is like 100 K thousand queries per second Of course, it depends whether it's on your laptop or if it's on a high-end server But it should be roughly by a hundred third thousand. So it's not much, but it's enough for the testing and The main configuration options for the generator are like these three You can set up the number of concurrent Traffic generators this like depends whether you like later pick UDP or TCP, but essentially if you create 10 for instance, or I don't know hundred concurrent traffic generators. It means that for UDP Flamethrower will open 100 UDP sockets So you will see the traffic coming for from 100 random ports if you do this for TCP It will go open 100 connections and it will try to keep these connections alive So whenever the server closes the connection it will like re-open and a new one but there should be like 100 connections all the time open and Then you are sending like batches of queries on these either like UDP sockets or TCP sessions or TCP connections so this is configured by the next two arguments the dash Q which is number of queries to send in a batch and Then there is a delay to wait for the next batch So for instance, if you want to send 1,000 queries per second You can have I don't know 10 concurrent generators which gives 100 QPS per per Per the generator and now you can set up the generator to send 10 queries every 100 milliseconds and you get as a result 1,000 QPS There's also the the rate control that I mentioned so this is how you can like cut Cut the the rate of the queries in case the generator is too fast You can either set it constantly for a constant rate or you can write like a QP define like QPS flow So you can always set like The rate you you want to see on on the output and the duration of milliseconds. So This is actually what you see some see on the graph below. You can for instance Crazy crazy speaks. So there is like 2,000 queries per second for six for 60 seconds Then 100 queries per second for 60 seconds repeating so This is from one of our testing servers. There was some nominal traffic for of 600 QPS Like this is the first first first minute and the second minute is it's like back to the 100 and so on and so on Yeah, we don't sample we sample the the the rate at 30 seconds. So it looks Like this but yeah Then the metrics So I've already shown you at the beginning how the the output for for humans look like But if you run flame with dish O It will print out a Jason like the results in Jason into the file So you will have for each second you will have one line of Jason that essentially contains everything you see In the like human for at the end But you will get get the same information for for each second so you can see like the development during during the run of the flame and We for instance feed this into the elastic search and you can later do some visualizations based on based on that I didn't include it in the slides because I didn't find something really interesting But yeah, so just so we have some idea it supports Jason Here are some examples Simple one that uses the the DNS perfect input format I included some some description like how it will What it will end up doing so in the first case you're opening like it's on UDP you're opening 100 source ports or source source sockets and you will send 10 queries each 500 milliseconds Which will end up with 2000 QPS Here the second one is slightly more complicated. It uses The QPS flow and it's it's to simulate some some kind of peak So you start with 10,000 QPS for five seconds then decaying to 5,000 QPS 250 and so on and then there's some like 1000 QPS At event for 40 for 40 seconds So in the end will run one minute, but you will have some some peak of traffic You can use it to simulate cold cash or some failover and Yeah, the last one just shows Sending like random garbage on on TCP With some right like 1000 QPS Yeah, we have some ideas to improve this this to further We definitely want to improve the improve the use of the resources on on the the machine So we want to support multiple CPUs We want to be able to target the target multiple servers or IP range within a single run We wanted to spoof the source source address because this is useful for testing as well We'll probably add DNS over TLS DNS over GTP if someone has a need for that And Yeah, quite a rate is something that we control only with this QPS flow or like static configure statically at the beginning So we were looking into like extracting for instance the rate from from peak up and then just pretending Pretending that the rate is the same and of course like this is this this used to be or we started this To test particle of features. We didn't focus on performance. So maybe maybe that's maybe that's something something we might focus on and Overall overall it like the tool needs some cleanup It's not really a state of the art C++ because we were all learning C++ at a time and people from multiple teams contributed contributed to code So yeah, that's it Thank you and I'll be happy to answer questions and I will also happy to talk to you on a github if you send out send us some PR Any questions for young? Yes, Matthias both Yeah, sorry, sorry, I should repeat a question. I was talking about QPS and you are interested whether it's UDP or TCP Like it can it can really generate The same QPS on TCP as well It can I didn't mention this explicitly, but it can it effectively Does TCP pipelining it opens the connection and tries to keep that connection opened For the whole run. So so you're just then sending the burst of spuckets So that's essentially the pipelining and if the server closes the connection flame will reopen it a new one But the overhead of opening the connection is not that high So you can really generally like thousands of QPS on TCP if the server is able to respond Yeah, can I run flamethrower to find this peak where? Like the server stops being able to respond on on TCP or UDP. No, you can't you have to do it manually But it's it's actually nice nice feature request. Yeah, small feature request I would say do not focus so much on the high-performance stuff because everyone is always focusing on the high-performance stuff And no one here ever runs a name server that does 2 million QPS But we do want to run DNS over T in a TLS really well And we want to run DNS over HTTPS really well, and it turns out that those two protocols have a lot of modes So we can have many connections. We can have connections to keep a life for a long time We have can have connections that come with tickets and that resume We have all kinds of TLS modes with zero RTT and stuff What the world super duper needs right now is a testing engine that can exercise all these modes Because we don't yet know what the browsers are going to do and because we don't know we would love to have a tool that allows Us to explore that landscape. So here my feature request and if you do it, we would love to help. Yeah, that's cool Thank you one comment in one question are really waiting for the To import to pick up real traffic for the testing and the second the question is like in in DNS Perf there was like a maximum number of outstanding queries So where it's rottled until the names are responded again. Do you have like some such similar? No No, there's no way No, it will just Like it tracks the the number like internally we know the number, but there's no function of that Like stop sending queries if there's some amount of outstanding once in flight Any other questions Martin? Thanks for the call. So I'm not so much of an DNS expert, but no no a bit about low testing You may want to consider to print out the presentile instead of the average For your response times because the average usually doesn't tell you anything at all. Yeah. Yeah, just as an idea Yeah, like in this in this JSON format you will see the actual values So if you want to do some post aggregation on top of that you can Not for each request, but you will see current stats for each second and there is a There is there is always a current like query rate and current response rate and the number of for instance time Queries that I'm out during that second So I think you should be able to get a number you want But it's a good point. Thank you. I've lost question over here Well, maybe it's more or less a feature request. I'm sorry for that Did you ever consider not only checking the result code, but also some other expected patterns in the answers? Yeah, of course some bugs only pop up under high pressure Yeah, you're right No, we are checking only for the response codes. We are not checking any other content in the in a packet We could probably do that. I don't know if it's useful