But I'm, I got you. Yay. This is a setting up the meeting. You look beautiful. Oh, thank you, my love. OK, and I think we are live. So yes, it looks like we're live. Ta-da, haza, haza, everybody. So go ahead and, you know, if you have questions, like I said, it's cool. We're going to answer them. But I'm going to really get started with the gorgeous, amazing, amazingly unique creature called Joy Nordensrum. And I, Joy, I want to start by saying, I'm just going to pop in. Is it OK if we go? Like just get in there? Definitely. First of all, tell people. This can be quick, but tell them so they understand, besides relationship expert and besides matchmaker, matchmaker, what do you do? What are these giftarones that you've got here and here? Well, I've been studying relationships for the last, for most of my life, but I've had Joy of Romance for the last 14. And I love helping people learn how to be their very best in partnership. But when I first started Joy of Romance, I wanted to first address the gentleman because I felt that women had been talking about relationships since we were in grade school and we had lots of resources and outlets and that men's ability to do that had been squished over the years. So I also felt that science was finally catching up with self-help. And I was really fascinated by that. So I wanted to study as much as I could of what made us take in relationships, what made us thrive, and what was the demise of relationships. So I went back, got my MBA, wrote the business plan, and then that next year traveled across America to my favorite coaches, authors, therapists, neuroscientists, biologists, chemists, social anthropologists, people who are studying the face, all sorts of really fascinating ways of looking at patterns in relationship. And so I started out with both individuals who I'm coaching that are single and those that are in a relationship to understand their top 10 relationship patterns, how those intersect to make them uniquely who they are. And then also if they have any strange oil and water combinations, bringing that to their attention so that they can actually teach somebody else how to best be in partnership with them and also choose wisely. Because these patterns we have, you can have chemistry with just about anybody, but it doesn't mean they're a really great partner for the rest of your life. So I, yeah. This I know to be true. And I really want to make note of what you just said. And I'm going to visit that a little later because I'm pretty fascinated by that idea of oil and water and how we can do our own personal picking for not only to be, not only to find a great partner, but also to be a great partner. I mean, look, most of us here have been alive long enough and have enough relationship experience that we can attest to that. We know painfully exactly what that means.  I know this is it. I feel like I found something that could create longevity. And three months is a fairytale. But after that, and as time goes on and people's best facade go away, and maybe some of that facade, of course, is still there. But what I really mean is their real being comes out. The comfort level starts, more of their being comes out, more of the engagement comes out, and something else happens. And as we know, a year, five, whatever, down the road, maybe even a few months, things end. And it's painful because people are still holding on. But in the beginning of our relationship, like it looked like something else. So I'm going to get to that a little later, the oil and water, us being a good partner and knowing how to choose a good partner. So folks, this is how I met Joy. We're actually in an event and the event had ended. And we were literally in the aftermath of the event when we started this conversation and I found her to be so incredibly whip smart, riveting. She was even talking to me about my face and my being, she had just met me and she was like, bang on about everything she said, even going into, I'll tell you who will be good for you. And so I was obsessed after that, like who is Joy? And so I've, you know, since had the next weeks to follow up on her and get to know her. And so I wanted to explore, and this is going to lead us to the next piece. I have heard out there Joy that people right now more than ever are interested in love. And I think to be devil's advocate, a lot of people might be sitting back and saying, that's crazy, we're quarantined, we're separated. How is that possible? How would you meet? And a lot of questions around that. But first let's just address, is that true? Are you finding in your business, there's actually a swell of people are saying, I really want to find a partner. I want to say that I had been studying trends in marriage or it doesn't, you know, for the last 100 years I've looked at different trends. And in my 14 years of doing this, there's been a certain trend that men who want to potentially be a part of my database to find they're the one disappear from right after Halloween, right around Thanksgiving, all the way through till Valentine's Day. It's really hard because they're not just dating for dating's sake when they come to see me, they're dating because they know they might find the one. And so they don't want to kind of have a one during the holidays. At the beginning of the year, men like to get their ducks in a row, they're in that go, go, go organize mode, pop out a couple of weeks later, then they go, ooh, that big V days on the horizon. I don't want to accidentally be dating somebody I don't really like around V day. So they have a tendency to like come in like rows for the couple of weeks after Valentine's Day. This year, they're different, totally different. They started coming the second week in January. And I'm like, wow, there's something happening. And so my analysis was as it has been in other years when there was a surgeons and marriages is that the climate of the world was such that there was so much fear based out there. There was so much uncertainty out there, politically, environmentally, economically, everything was like, ah. And so most of the time we go out to get our dopamine rushes. And that's when your player is like, you like to go here and there and like taste this and taste that and try this. And it's all interesting, but when that's already happening in your environment I think that people want to retreat to find safety and security and a respite and somebody to come home to that they know has their back and they don't have to like have their dukes up going, going, going, doing, doing, doing. And so our shift had already started before the virus and the quarantine. And I think now it's even more like I'm here alone.  I think also the patterns that I was talking about they're becoming more and more like defined. You'll find the explorers in my pool of clients are willing to meet out there. They'll meet with the six feet difference. And then the builders like, oh no, no, no, we got everybody at layer of the law, like letter of the law, everything is in the box and we have to meet like this and I can only meet via video or via phone. And they've just very, very just, you know, definitely gone into one category or another. And I also think that the unfortunate thing that we have to watch out for is when you're in a state of fear very often you invite somebody in just to be the plug in that whole of that fear. And you don't invite somebody in that ticks in all cylinders that meet you in all levels to be your most perfect partner. So that's my word of warning to people at this time. Don't find somebody out of fear. Find somebody out of wholeness and fullness of who you are and what you can bring to the party. Oh, it's beautiful. Wow. Good point. I'd love to talk about some of the secrets that you know, and I wanna just keep it to in this moment, the right now, the quarantine, what is happening out in the world. What are some of the secrets about actually opening up to love at an auspicious time like this? Well, I think it also steps back. This is a wonderful time to do some of that self-discovery. Some of the different patterns that I have, I'd love to make recommendations to anybody who wants to connect with me afterwards. I'm happy to help you understand some of those patterns for free too, for the first couple. The way in which you can become more interesting, there's tons of watch parties out there. There's tons of Zoom parties. There's lots of meetups. So find something that not only are you interested in, but this guy that you've just described or this woman that could be your partner. Where is she hanging out? Go hang out there.  So that's one. Two, I think having real relationship, deep discussions, get to know people and to come to the table, not with those generic questions, but come to the table going, how can I ask a question of this person that's going to elevate them and take them in an upwards registry? We want them to feel successful, happy, uplifted, warm and fuzzy and all of that will actually, in the neurochemistry, actually help to make them attuned to you and want to be around you more. So it's twofold.  Do you have any good questions that you recommend people ask? Again, it goes back to your patterns. What's most important to you and who it is that you want? So if you're an explorer, which is a term Dr. Helen Fisher uses and that is somebody that's running on dopamine and norepinephrine, loves it. So it's okay if you tell people, that's me. It's really good because it's a great reference point for anybody out there who does know me that or just can feel my energy through this. Facebook Live can say, oh, okay, I don't resonate with who she is or no, I feel akin to that. So I'm an explorer. Yeah, so it's dopamine norepinephrine. It's thinking, seeing that big picture, perpetually being curious, being wonder filled, love learning, totally fits you to a T, spontaneous.  And so if you wanna attract somebody else who is explorer, which explorers should do for the long run, you wanna ask those questions that are in that alignment, maybe bucket list questions, things that they've done in the past, things that are still on their list to do. How did it make them feel getting to those feelings and connecting to that is really important. So it could be like a three step question on the bucket list. Somebody who is a builder per se, that's somebody who is running on serotonin. That's probably the polar opposite of what you are. So I'm excited we're gonna get back to the three months in the oil and water because builders are running in a love drug that's the only love drug that actually dissipates when they are in the falling and love stage. They actually look different, sound different, do different things than their long-term in a partnership person. And it's not that they're shifting or changing or putting on errors, it's just that their internal chemistry has allowed them to start thinking outside the box to do things that are adventurous and a little daring to do things that are more spontaneous. And so once in their mind though, they're going once I'm an exclusive committed relationship, we go back in the box because serotonin's our comfort drug. So somebody who is running in builder needs a builder for the long run for them to really have a safe, successful, long-term relationship with children. They're gonna ask questions about, how organized somebody is, how they've planned for the future, what's important if a family comes along. Really a good talk about family values and alignment if they have builders love the outside in helping to find who they are. So they would be speaking to something that was important was it corporate culture, family values, community, religion, even the definition of I'm an REI guy, or I'm a Brooks Brothers guy, would be akin to understanding who that person was. So it's crafting the questions around who it is. And then there's some things that you wanna know about somebody's childhood. If you're single and you're moving forward, it's a nice thing to have somebody that like their mom or like the primary caregiver. It just makes things easier. It doesn't mean you can't have a relationship with somebody who had a challenging childhood, but from the beginning, if you want an opening to see where that was. One of my favorite questions, I always say, don't rattle them off like you're an HR manager reading something from a book that's really creepy and weird. So you want to have a lead in story. So if I was talking to a gentleman I was single, I'd say, hey, my girlfriend is having a party for her four-year-old son. And I'd really love to be able to get a set of classic boys' childhood books. And I'm just curious, what were some of your favorite childhood books? And what was the moral of them? What meant so much to you? Who read them to you? That's like, phew.  Oh, wow, and that really makes me think. I mean, what a great question. My God, I was obsessed with the little prince. Weren't you like, oh my God, the idea that this little boy and his dog went to another planet and he was so sad, but then the planet spoke to him and the plant spoke to him and everything came alive and all the wisdom he gained.  Oh my goodness. That's so interesting. This is so interesting a question. Sorry, riffing. But you know, the other thing is, and I have almost the entire collection of Tintin books. I don't know if you know that. Do you know that, Joy? Tintin? No, I did. I know Tintin, yeah. I didn't know you had them. It is not popular in this country. It is Belgian book. Herge was the cartoonist, but very, very, very famous in Europe. And as a little girl, my mom started buying these for me. I have all of them. And then as I got older, was buying the rest. And it's about a little, my God, I never thought about this. It's interesting what's in common here. So it's also about a blonde, young, older boy who runs around the world with his dog Snowy.  He's a total explorer. Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh. So clearly I'm actually a little boy. If you've died to travel the world with a little dog, this planet or not, that tells you tons about me. And so we've got Explorer and we've got Builder. Are there more types that we should know about? Yes. So I'm just gonna tell you a little bit about Dr. Fisher and why this test came about. She has been our premier social anthropologist. She's a senior professor at Rutgers University, written a dozen books. She saw us as human animals who had a four year cycle and then we would start looking for the next best thing. And in particular females would start sniffing for the next best thing. So her whole outlook was, she didn't believe in the one. She actually didn't have the one, she had the two. One of these gentlemen passed away right around the time she was to do a very pivotal study with Arthur Aaron from Storybrook University. And she was gonna be putting people who tested both in an oral and, or a verbal and a written test that they were in love. And so once they did that, she was putting them into an fMRI to watch what their brain was doing in love. And she was floored. She was finding people who had been married for 10 to 40 years that were coming to her and saying, I'm really in love. Yeah, right. Let me look at your brain. Wow, that's amazing. These people really are these outliers. There's not a ton of them who've made it to my study but I'm really fascinated that this is happening. So at that time, she also felt that she wanted to leave the world in a better place to be able to see what could make us tick, what could have a lasting relationship. So she took that information and right around the same time, eHarmony had a giant magical pest that they were doing and they took a big financial hit-out of match.com and all of its properties. So they invited match.com, invited her to create a high-end. And so she got all their data points from the beginning of their history plus all the science she was pulling in. She goes, wow, it looks like half the populations attracted to very similar type personality, other half is attracted to polar opposite. So we've just talked about the ones that are both attracted to the same. So explorers go with the explorers, builders go with builders for the long run. Builders are the individuals who get married youngest and stay married the longest and you'll find them in middle America and you'll find them in the suburbs. Explorers always make themselves to the coast or they're the major metropolitan hubs. Yeah. You are so fascinating. So it helps me as a matchmaker to know this because then once I've gotten to know somebody, and who they're looking for, then I can figure out where am I looking? Who am I talking to? What kind of activities would they be in? The ones that are polar opposite are something called director. And when you were in vitro, you were flooded if you were a director with testosterone.  So they run on testosterone and adrenaline. They see the end goal, they're gonna get there no matter what. They have a longer, it's called 2D to 4D ratio. They have very distinct characteristics in their facial features, high brow, very strong eyebrows, deeper set eyes, high cheekbones, strong jawline, chiseled off chin, smaller upper lip, very broad stance, commanding presence when they walk in, you know they're there. And so you'll see them as owners of companies, you'll see them as high-level executives.  They're gonna get the job done, but they sometimes don't care who they have to step on to get there. So especially the younger directors. So they need their polar opposite to actually kind of do this yin and yang and this dance and have a place to come home to where they too can do that. You know, so the opposite is negotiator. Again, in vitro, flooded with estrogen, so the polar opposite. Estrogen helps somebody become more astute at their emotional attunement to people. And it helps somebody really understand how to communicate well, both written and verbal. And it helps somebody see both sides of the picture and to be really balanced. And it also brings in a little grounding to the situation. And it's softness. It warms somebody up. And even the way somebody would be looking at somebody if they were negotiator versus the way what eyes they would use versus the director, it comes into play. So you will find that negotiators are gonna be left eye gazing much more. Slightly turn to the right-hand side and you'll have a dominant left eye. You'll actually see more white around their eyes than have a left eye. And a gentleman who is female who is running more in their testosterone and their directorness is gonna be much more right eye dominant. And again, that's involving the right, the left side of the brain. They go, do, do, do, do. These are the details. This is how I want this person to work with me. This is what I need out of the situation.  Now, when you're doing the left eye gazing, it does the opposite. It makes person feel more inviting. You see all of that person. You see, where is their synergy? Where is their connection? How can I work with this person? Softens, softens. And so the most classic couple here is Bill and Hillary. And this is why Bill was a negotiator and Hillary is the director. And that's why I think lots of reasons I was doing a lot of facial analysis when she was running for office and how her people kept trying to make her in her mind be more feminine, but she wasn't running true to herself. So the disconnect between her eyes and her words made people in their gut not trust her because she was incongruent, trying to be something they wanted her to be. And I had a friend who was one of her handlers for Middle America to the West Coast. She said, every time I saw her in a small group with either children or in a small gathering that the real her came out and everybody attuned to her. But when she was on stage being talked to of what she shouldn't be presenting, she had that disconnect. Okay. Okay, sorry, went off, but it's... Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, I'm completely with you. And these are great examples, actually, it's very helpful. And I think it is very interesting in general. I think in the public eye, a lot of times that happens to people, sadly, especially women, but men too. It's like, no, the public doesn't want that you. If you wanna be successful, they need a different you. And I hearing how you're describing this, I can see how that misalignment can end up being so misconstrued by the public that what their people actually felt would be the receiving of them. It turns out to be the rejecting of them because they're not being them. So we can't receive what we know to be true and what we're suddenly seeing as being presented. If I can add to that, sorry, I've studied the facial action coding system with Dr. Paul Ekman and he discovered the nuances of the minutiae of the face, right?  And so that's what I was looking at. And so it was a combination of Dr. Helen Fisher's work and Dr. Ekman's work. And you need to feel connected to somebody and like they're telling you the truth to be able to bring your defenses down. So especially when you're dating, you need to make sure that you're showing up as your true self, not who you're pretending to be in that situation because when your mirror neurons think up and your spindle cells connect, you need to have that authentic connection, self-confidence and loving connection with somebody. And you'll feel it, you might not be able to pinpoint what they've done that's off, but you will not feel akin to them if they're not true. We're gonna come back to this. We're gonna announce it a couple of times because this is obviously, you can tell what is possible with joy and we're gonna go much deeper. But I also wanna hit upon this so you guys understand what's possible for you. Yes, this is gonna be information. Yes, you're gonna get a ton of wisdom for her and insights about what's possible for you right now. So if your heart is ready and open, you can actually move forward. So let's address this now, again, we'll do it later, but Joy, if someone is a man and they're listening to this and saying, I think I'd like to connect with her further, how would they do that? How did they work with you? What does that even look like for the men clientele that you have? It looks the same on both ends, so I can address that. In this particular context, and anybody hears our communication here or other times we might talk on any of your platforms, if they want to either direct message me via Facebook or via my email joy at joyofromance.com or actually it's easier just to go to Joy of Romance, my website and go to my contact form, fill it out there and say, how did you hear about Joy in the comments and just say through Debbie and I would be happy then to gift them to be able to be a part of our matchmaking database. The really cool thing about that is it will be complimentary. It's normally $397 to go through the process. It involves too many sessions with me and or one of my coaches and to know your top two relationship patterns. So you'll do a pretty extensive application, two personality quizzes and have two sessions. So it allows me and the people I work with to really get to know you to see if you might be a potential match for one of our clients now or in the future. That's really cool. So yeah, and so nobody else does that, but I love people, I really, really like people and I don't feel, you know, right. I also, if somebody moved into matchmaking with me, I don't get paid for matchmaking for most of it until somebody has been together for three months with someone, no other matchmaker does that. So that makes me incredibly unique, but it makes me only make matches for people that I truly feel are going to be a potential fit for one another or could lead to somebody. So you'll notice something I did in your regard is that somebody might know somebody in their community that's a really good fit. And so I go, let's just see. There's at least 75% match here, but as you get to know that person, you might know somebody that's a good fit for him or he might know somebody that's a good fit for you. Dozens and dozens of times it's been that secondary introduction that becomes the one. So I always say let's set this up with good love karma. It allows people to stay fully present, continue to get to know the person.  I mean, it's the yuckiest. I've been there, I didn't like it. I'm like, you never ever want any of my clients to go through that. So even at my singles parties and in an introduction, I make sure whatever I can do to buffer that to not happen. And also when you make an introduction or you go in the introduction via my services, it's as if lots of other people are watching. So Debbie, you might know some of the people that were coming through you. Other people I call love agents are bringing people into the database. And so if they go on a date, it's not only that they're showing up on the date, the person who made the recommendation and gave them a two thumbs up. If they do something that's not cool, that's getting back to that person. And are they gonna get another date with me? Probably not. So people really show up. And unfortunately nowadays in the world of online dating and absence of like that, you've got people that ghost, you've got people who don't follow through. They just kind of take it as a grain of salt of whatever. No, when people come and work with me, they're there. And then if somebody was to start in a matchmaking capacity with me, they always start first to understand those top 10 relationship patterns. And we go through the coaching first. It helps me understand them. Helps me understand who others we're looking for. Helps them be able to retain the relationship for more than three months. And hopefully for the lifetime of their relationship. And then they choose if they want to move into matchmaking, we both choose together. How does somebody reach out and connect with you? Men or women who are saying, yeah, this sounds pretty yummy. Like this, honestly, how could you not do the offer you're giving? That's as far as I can see. And I really want to follow that up by saying, this is an incredibly schooled, like she has her beyond a couple of PhDs in this. This is not someone to just tongue out a shingle, but you've done your due diligence personally and professionally. So I can testify to that. What does somebody do to move forward? Is that an email? Is that a website? Again, joyofromance.com, you go to my contact page, you can fill that out. That's probably the easiest. If we're friends on Facebook or you want to message me directly, I hopefully will find it. Or my email joyatjoyofromance.com. All of those will get to me. And yeah, I love, I also work with couples. So if you know anybody who just wants to be more aligned and attuned and understand how to do the dance of being interdependent, especially around conflict, that's a specialty of mine. And one last thing, last year I started working on this really fun project where I'm working with a single. By the end of our time together, if you opt to do this, you get a book, it's called The Book of Me as a Partner. And it's spiral bound. And you have all it is that you're looking for in a partner, what matters most is you guys going together as a partnership. All your patterns coming together and my analysis of that. And then I have a lot of people that I work with that help with additional patterns beyond those. So it could be the enneagram, it could be palm analysis, it could be handwriting analysis, it could be different studies of perspectives of astrology, whatever it is that you feel akin to that you'd like to include as an additional way to teach somebody how to understand who you are. And then for the couples, they do the book of us as a partnership. And so we say how those patterns come together. And that's a really cool thing is my clients stay with me through the lifetime of their relationship. If they started single, I'm talking to them five, 10 years later when anything comes up or they just need some clarity or some kind of refresher in the romance department. That's amazing. And I hadn't considered that, that you work with couples too. And I'm realizing as you're saying that this is an auspicious time for singles who are saying, oh, this is not what I want. I think this is a very sobering time in life for people to go, actually life is short. You know, if it is impermanent, even those of us who believe in reincarnation, this life, this life is short. And for those who are in a partnership right now who are locked together 24 seven, so to speak, they may be facing things they were not dealing with before because work and hobbies and all these extracurricular activities were taking their focus away from something that might've been an elephant in the room that they weren't dealing with. And so I'm sure that's coming up for people. I am sure that people are having to really face their relationships and the elements that aren't working. And it's lovely to know that you can fill in there as well. I want to address Hal. Hal Price is asking a question and he said, I'd love to connect to learn more about my patterns, Joy. And I'm wondering, I know that's a bit open-ended but how would you respond to that? Well, I'm excited in any of those modes that I just said to connect through that and also explain some of the other patterns that I work with. So the most common, it's the most translated book on relationships on the planet. It's called the Five Love Languages. That's my primary one. And what happened was the very first couple that I worked with, they had been married for 23 years to beautiful kids. It was my hairdresser that happened to be the love agent that this woman had just moved. It was a second time see-ner. And she said, I was approached on Facebook or something by an old love. And I think I might have enough hair. And my hairdresser was like, no, no, wait, wait, don't do that. Go see Joy first and then see what happens but to see her first. So she said, I've been in this passionless, loveless relationship. We haven't had much sex in the last 10 years. I don't know what to do other than my kids and just kind of hanging out. And so we started working together. And I assigned, I usually say, if there's bumps in the road, I work with one partner first. They take the homework back and do it with their partner. So on my very first date night that I assigned the quiz, he came in in his love language quiz off the charts on acts of service. So I'll go through all of them. Words of affirmation, acts of service, quality time, physical touch and gifts. And so he was a classic stoic Midwest German and from Minnesota, I understand this. Well, she was very bubbly and all over the place and her top love language was words of affirmation. So she had almost everything in words of affirmation. She had a one and acts of service.  But they had this mind blowing, aha, that I keep giving and giving and giving, but you're not getting that I'm giving love because I'm doing these things. And so he rattled off all the things in which he felt he was getting love and she was just blown away one after another. And then for her, she's just like, just giving me kudos with, you know, some verbal affirmation just makes me like. So I had them co-create some rituals that would honor both of their love languages. So much easier to do in the beginning if I can get them in sync with the primary or secondary or if we know this is the only thing out of sync, create those patterns while the love drugs are high. So it's easy, you adapt it much quicker, you attune to it, understand the why behind it. But this time, 23 years later, I had her come up with three by five cards that had all these lovely sayings that she wished he had said and in their love alter in their bedroom, she did a little card holder with these three by five cards. And when she was writing around getting the kids off her school and he was coming through the bedroom before he left for work, he would go through the cards, flip one to the front, light the little T light and leave. She'd come back in half hour or 45 minutes later, she would see that candle lit. She said, I felt like a little kid in school being passed a note. I would skip across the room, I would look at the card and he'd be like, he thought it was sexy last night. And it was so exciting for her that by the eighth time they saw me, they thought they were pregnant again. So it really did a world of good. That was a real love child, like real love. Oh my goodness. So were they able to sustain that? Because that can be hard when that's a fish out of water, right? That's not your language. So you're trying to show up understandable. You wanna give your partner things that make them happy.  So I know in the beginning, following homework you can show up, but what happens for sustainability? Very good. So yes, it was wonderful for about a year. And then once they had finished everything and they understood how much work it took to continuously work in other people's patterns, other people's languages, they asked me to help them consciously in couple. So they did, and they did very good co-parenting. And she then went to school to become a sexologist. Yes. And she is one of my favorite sexologists now. Interesting. Is she a single psychologist or? No, she is with a partner. And she's with a partner that interestingly enough, it's my third pattern. So it's the attachment, how we attach usually starts again when we're in vitro and through the first three years. And so she chose somebody whose primary attachment style is avoidantly attached. One of the most difficult attachments to connect with for a long-term relationship. What is avoidantly connect? Avoidantly attached, yeah. So we have three primary ways that we attach in relationships. And it starts with our primary caregivers, securely attached, avoidantly attached or anxiously attached. And then we usually have a primary and a secondary. Almost all these patterns will have a primary and a secondary that you're running in. So you can be super-duper securely attached. And this is good for what's going on with the people that are stuck with their partner. When they get overwhelmed, when they have lots of fear, anxiety, they're gonna go to their weaker link. So it's either gonna be avoidant or it's gonna be anxious. So to understand all of these patterns is gonna be who view for all of your relationships in particular your intimate relationships.  And you're like, that was fast. That was kind of crazy, but we're older now. So maybe, yeah, that feels really good. Yeah, okay, I can see that. And then as soon as you start buying into their story, oh, nope, they start backing up. They start going, you start working on eggshells. They are saying things like, well, no, you can't say that you love me. I can say that I love you, but you can't say that. And they don't want you to see everything behind the scenes. They're very, very, very good at learning your story. They're good. This is another thing is when you're first getting to know somebody, pay attention to them answering equal amount of questions you're asking them to what you're answering for them. If you have somebody who keeps asking questions, asking questions, asking questions, and then divert back to you when you ask them a question, you may be dealing with somebody who's avoiding the attached. They are learning their script. Everything to them is about a story, a love story. And they're trying to figure out what role they're supposed to be playing with you in that script. Oh, I have chills listening to this. Oh, that just sounds like a disaster to me. Oh, my goodness. It's not fun. And it can last several years. And a lot of people get married that avoid the attached.  But I think most people think if somebody is avoid the attached, of course they're gonna be hard to get, right? Like, no, actually, they're always looking for that fairy tale. But once they get into the relationship, they're gonna be looking over your shoulder. They're gonna have one hedging their bets, one foot in, one foot out. Yeah, so back to how I would go through this, all these different communication patterns, how you argue and her personal communication, how you learn actually, even how you sleep plays a big deal. As you were saying, this time of being quarantined together is very similar to when people get more tired and they have to live together. That is one of my biggest subset of couples. Cause they don't. Wow, I was used to getting you for dinner. I can deal with you for dinner, but 24 seven. Oh no. And if you have different sleep cycles, can you imagine your circadian rhythms off? You don't eat at the same time. You don't even do some of the same hobbies anymore. You don't have sex at the same time. So when you're first in this investigative stage dating someone, ask where they sleep and how they sleep and what does that look like? And again, if it's the only thing that's off, let's come up with some great patterns so you'll work with it. But even going back to one of my teachers is Dr. John Gottman and the Gottman Institute. And he says that one of the most important thing is these little love rituals that you do to make a success relationship and how you wake up and connect with somebody and right before you go to bed and how you connect with somebody consistently done over time is one of those things that really puts the foundation down in relationship. Oh, I love the sound of that. Can you, I would like that universe. I want love rituals in the morning and at night.  Bring it. What is that? That sounds really romantic and connecting and intimate. Yeah. So one of his, he is the preeminent scientist on what makes us thrive or the demise of relationships. He took his super math background. He was also one of the first gentlemen to work with the facial action coding system with Dr. Paul Ekman. And his claim to fame is with 94%. He can talk to a couple that's been married year together three to four years or more. And after about 10 minutes, he talks on their love story. He talks on rallying them up. He watches all their facial gestures. He watches their languaging. And he can tell you whether or not they're gonna be married in 10 years or not. 94% accuracy for almost 30 years he's been doing this. So I'm like, I wanna know what he knows. So that was one of the reasons I went both in the vein of Dr. Ekman and with him. So love rituals, his latest scientific like finding the difference between a couple that either thrives and is going uphill or one that's stagnant and going downhill is as simple as five dedicated hours per week. And that's not just a really great date night and sex that has to do with these love rituals. So he said these consistency of the little things are what matters most. So the touch points in the morning, a touch point during the middle of the day if you guys work apart from one another, a touch point of how you reconnect, how that reuniting happens at the end of the day. 20 minutes to discuss what he calls love maps. So understanding, strangely enough, everything that's in the outside of your relationship and what makes your partner tick in that particular time vice versa, then that nice date night and hopefully making love at least once a week. So the story that got me when I used to love, I still do, I love interviewing people about their love stories. This couple had been married 64 years. I was distantly related to them there in Chicago and they were a hoot. And you just saw them radiating love from across the room. It was so cool. And so I asked him one day, please tell me what the secret sauce is. And he said, there has not been a single day that my feet have touched the ground when I woke up that I didn't rejoice and let her know how much I loved her. If she was away, I'd write her a letter or a, you know, phone her, but I would declare to the universe and to her how much I loved her. Yeah, goosebumps, huh? And I'm like, that's what I want. So unfortunately that wasn't the marriage I was in at that time, but my current partner, we worked out really early in the morning. So we got to do that in person until my son came along.  Troy, that's beautiful. And I love that that man used the word every day. There's not a day that hasn't gone by that I don't rejoice. I mean, who uses that word first of all and what a gorgeous way to typify a choice about how you're going to show up and express love and invite in your love, remind your love. And it's to rejoice something means to over and over again that that is the choice he made every day. And what a lucky female. Not only that, but if you go to the science of it, there's something called the Zarkandic Effective you get to noodle on about seven things every day that could be your primary thing that you're working on. And for him to know that something, I prioritize each and every day.  What would they get to have? My gosh. Well, Hal has written a couple of questions. So he has gotten back to us. So I'm going to go to Hal. Thank you, Hal, for engaging and staying with us. And so let me go, Well, first here, what is the cost of the entire program? Once you've done the initial screening for your top two patterns. Good question. So what I would recommend, Hal, is it's, we want to first get you into the database. If you go in through Debbie and this offer that I'm giving her, you jump two sessions in. So it typically takes 13 sessions to get through all 10 patterns and do all the analysis. So we look at that. It jumps you in two sessions. So you're essentially saving $1,000 to get into it, which is cool. So it would then, we would look at the scope of who it is that you're looking for, how many different places I'm looking, a bunch of different, different components will go through and then we'll figure out whether or not matchmaking is the right fit. And what you want us to do. Then I start engaging the love agents and we go from there. So it's really tailored to who the person is beyond the initial matchmaking. So the best thing to do is just to have a consult with me and we can discuss that. And I'm just typing in. I think I'll just put my name. Yeah. So that you, you have the information is really easy for people. Yeah. To navigate. Fantastic. And then he had another question, which was that he feels like, sorry, it's a, it's moving like a stock exchange here. And so Larry is, I want to go back to find that question again, but he was saying that he was interpreting what. He thinks that he is. And let me see if I can, let me see. If I can't, it's okay. He can always retype that question. Let's see. It's, it's so much fun to, to see that my clients get these aha's. Even every time I've been on the radio, I seem to get somebody who is a psychologist or a psychiatrist. And they go, I've done all this self work. I know all that stuff. And I just want to jump to matchmaking. I go, yeah, I'm going to do that. So, you know, we can discuss which of these patterns you have a really solid handle on. If I feel like you do, we can bypass that. That's fine. But we will go through and majority of them, they actually haven't seen, nor have they seen how they intersect in the way that I presented. So I have had so many psychologists after several phone calls, come back and then work with me and go, wow, my mind was blown on session too. I couldn't believe that with all of that, I was like, okay, I'm going to work with me and go, wow, my mind was blown on session too. I couldn't believe that with all the studying I've done in this regard that I learned that much. So. Oh, I love that. Well, that's so you really bring it. And how is saying, I believe I'm after hearing your descriptions, joy, I believe I'm a negotiator with the love language of words of appreciation and physical touch. Nice. Well, that would make sense. I think people who run in the negotiator almost always have words as a primary secondary, unless they've been living a life where their family or somebody has said, you know, actions are stronger than words, you know, actions speak louder than words. And if that was drilled into them, their love language of words drops way down. So somebody could be off the charts and negotiator, which is that primary estrogen, which helps people communicate. But if they devalue it in their value system, it's going to drop down. So, but that's great. I think gentlemen who have that capacity, especially as they get older women value that so much, so much. Yeah. Yeah, I will just say representing. Representing women right here, but I will say that is tremendously so. You get to a point where. I know there's a lot of stuff out there and says, Oh, bad boy. Oh, this and that. And I don't think, I think I would hope for most women, you get to a certain point where it's like been there done that. You already know how the story plays out. It's very, for me, very boring. I have no interest. But to have somebody can actually show up, you know, once all so much falls away, what you're left with is a real, hopefully a real relationship, sustainable, a real connection. And so, you know, I think it's really important that you have a relationship with somebody. Somebody can have companionship within conversation and, and that you have shared values and interests. So I feel like this is. So such an important point. And I love that you're saying this to men. So say a little bit more. So for the men folk out there who are watching this, and I understand there's a lot of confusion. I think on both sides actually is a lot of confusion, you know, and about how Hillary's people were saying, well, don't show up like, you know, you, you have a lot of testosterone. Nobody wants to see you in that as a president. They want to see you be a female and she's trying to be female. And everybody's confused. So I think it's also very confusing. How do I show up to date? How do I show up to create a relationship for men and women? Can you talk a little bit about some of the myths and some of the factoids that actually make it successful? I think it's about finding out more and more about who your true self is. And so these patterns will help you identify those. And also, I mean, so fascinating when the woman that I works with, I work with who does the palm analysis. She's not doing future escaping. She's actually seen if your love line and your palm, which shifts, I didn't know that your palm moves and shifts your whole life. And she's been in this study for 10 years and they do, they do a palm print and they send it in. But the neurotransmitters that are going through in your experiences are crafting a different map on your hand based on what you're doing. And if you weren't living in alignment with your heartline, it shows up on here and your alignment with that, with the true purpose. Your fingers don't change your tips, but this does. So I just started in the last like four or five years working with her. And I'm like, wow, that's awesome. So both for men and women, understanding who I am and which of those patterns are just core to who I am. So I'm going to work with them no matter what and which ones might not be serving my greater purpose. And so what can I figure out about those? Because back to what we said in the very beginning, your first three months plus, when all the love drugs are running high, dopamine, norepinephrine, phenylethylamine, you can use my clients. Do you hear that? Back to what we said in the very beginning. I'm hearing myself come back. Sorry. That's okay. So I was saying all these love drugs are meant to do is heightened all five of your senses. They help you very much attuned to this new object of your affection. They help you have more energy and more endurance to keep up and you can go the whole night talking and then totally be refreshed in the morning. It also emblazes into your brain. The synopsis of shared reward synopsis. So you're creating this we in your brains together. You're also having these Kodak moments of when something really special happens and you've touched somebody. It's like electricity, but it's also imprinting that picture in the mind of your face. Men most often think of somebody, a partner right after they've come, they see them and they're like, wow. And that is like connected to who they want to be with them for the rest of their lives. So use the love drugs wisely. Take these first three months, ask the right questions, know who would be a good partner for you and make sure you're seeing them in the right setting with their actions, following their words. It's not just the words.  And that's interesting. Yeah. And so being able to use those wisely because when you move from attraction into attachment, this whole shift happens and your brain doesn't look like it. You're running on cocaine anymore. The serotonin. So serotonin had come down. And when you shift, serotonin comes back up. That means I'm going into the comfort zone of love. I'm going into this long-term attachment.  This starts happening with what's happening in your mind about relationship. You start doing what you did. These patterns that maybe your parents did or what you did in past relationships and you don't even know that you're doing it. So you need to make sure that you're in alignment with your partner before this, or you know what could happen that's going to make you not your best self in relationship. If you can figure that out beforehand and go, Hey, for a warning, this might pop out. Not who I want to be. I want to show up like I'm showing up now. Dr. Bruce Lipton, who wrote the honeymoon effect. He says, when you have the love drugs coursing, that's the most present.   I'm saying this is who most of us want to be. We're not unless you've got a, you know, somebody who's really manipulative, maybe that, you know, avoidant tendency with the narcissism, then you got to watch out for that. You need to know how to run away from that. But most of the time people are showing up. This is who I want to be in relationship. This is my best self. This is me. And they will, if you can go, please help me return to that when I'm being my less than, and this is what might happen. And if this might happen, I'm going to tell you how, in what context it might come out. And I'm also going to say these are some tools that I'm asking you to work with me on. So you've already pre-given them permission. You've already pre-told them this might happen. It's not who I want to be, which allows that person not to run for the hills when it happens, but to go, oh, I get to be the man. I get to be the woman. I get to help this person be a better person. And wouldn't you want to be with somebody that's wanting you to be the best person and vice versa? So you will allow somebody to like, again, like hold them in that space of they're being not good.  And you still love them and you still want to encourage them. And so that's the art of becoming interdependent, which I think today is sorely, sorely missing in our culture of like going back to swipe.   I get to learn about myself and I get to learn about this wonderful we that's our first baby that we're creating. So it's that mindset that I try to help people have in the beginning that can set them up for a lifetime of success. Yeah, I think those crossroads are iconic. They really are epic because people who choose each other during a crossroads to work on things, to get through to the other side. And I understand it can be very, very difficult. I've been there before, but I know getting on the other side, and then there's this solidity. And there's actually a whole new level of relationship that gets created by virtue of choosing each other and choosing to work through it. I think it creates the most amazing epic love. And I know couples, not many, but the ones I do who make that choice will always to a man and a woman say, oh, I love this person way more than even when I met them. Like the more I'm with them, the more I'm madly in love with them. Yeah. Yeah, you feel like you've just won this big marathon together when you've gotten to the other side. It is so exciting to go, we did that. Look, and we're still together. We didn't really hurt one another and we didn't hurt this relationship. And we grew and we figured out how to not hopefully do that, that way again. So today, how are you helping people date through all this?  You have all these amazing tools. How are you assisting people? What methods are you getting people to actually meet face to face? Are they meeting face to face? Yeah. So again, as I was saying in the beginning, the explorers are going more explore like, and the builders are going more builder like. So yesterday I had three introductions. So we had a few that were happening in person and with the distance and being safe and sound of course. But the ability to see somebody is really important. I feel in the overall chemistry. However, some people are going, that's just not a, you know, not what I want to do right now, but I still want to date and I still want to meet people. So I've gone to each individual client kind of did an assessment of what works for them. Some people feel like I give good phone. And some people are like, don't get me on a phone. I just like that. You know, especially if they don't have the whole context of who I am. So probably about a third of people are just going, Hey, you keep searching, but I'm not going to meet anybody until this is past. So it's really around the person. If I do have a new software that I'm going to be working with where we're doing events that are speed dating. So I'm going to toss a couple of my clients in there and then bring people in from the database and it'll probably be not more than six to eight, maybe 10 people at the most equal numbers. Men and women. It'll be around the age range that we're looking for. So it'll be speed dating. Online. And. Oh, it's online. Yeah. So we don't even have to be located by you. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm excited that the software had just come out. I had just had a meeting with the CEO before all this broke out.  So his platform, he needs an investor. He doesn't have quite enough to handle everybody, but he's doling out. We each get, I think three a night. He's going to be doing these events and we get to sign up for one of them. So yeah, I think it'll be a little bit lighter. It'll be more fun. It'll be a little bit more playful. So I'm excited to do this. It'll be a little bit lighter. It'll be more fun. It'll be a little bit more playful. So I'm excited to start involving that just to get people, you know, continuing to have something to look forward to. And then the highly curated ones, it'll depend on the person and how they want to move forward. So. How important for most people, you work with men, women, how important is it for them to have somebody who is located in their city or their general vicinity? Or do you find that people are generally really open life? Yeah, it could be another, another county. It could be Northern Southern California. It could be New York LA. It could be another country. Where does all that play out? Again, I go back to the patterns. So I've had three couples I've coached who are by coastal and they have two to three places and then they meet in the middle and they just enjoy that. Majority of those individuals have avoidant attachment as a primary or secondary and their battle cries, space and our togetherness. They love space and our togetherness. They love quality time, but they love quality time that's focused and shorter chunks. So we work with them with that. Somebody who's really like off the charts, physical touch who has a learning style of being kinesthetic is not going to do well with that. You know, they need to be in each other's vicinity. They need to be touching each other to know that the love is there and it's vice versa. And so I would say that would probably be a smaller scope of, you know, where it was. But I do have clients who go, Hey, if I find love, I'll move just about anywhere. So I'll date all over the place. And in this courting phase, we might just have to go back and forth a little bit more. I think that works. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. But I think that's a good point. And I think that's a good point. Um, better when somebody knows themselves and they're older. I think the younger you are, and you're doing distance dating. There's a lot that people don't know about themselves. A number one too. There's a lot that they might know and they're hiding from you. So it becomes kind of spooky in that regard to not know the real person if you haven't actually lived in the same city with them and or potentially lived with them. So I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think that's a good point. I think there was just a big, um, uh, article, I think in the New York times that said that. Uh, Higher net worth people are getting married on a very, actually an accelerated rate, middle class, because of the finances of it are getting married less. But if they had the choice, they would actually be getting married more. Interesting. Let's talk a little bit about the, oh, I want to talk about the picker. I think that's a really a big conversation. So being the picker and the picky. How about picking a great partner? Again, I harken back to, oh, this could look really good. Or I will tell you, let me tell you one that I think shows up for me and see if people relate to this. But you know, when somebody pursues me, so I could, let's say I'm dating and there is four to five people. Um, and it's not just because I'm being pursued. That's not it. There has to be some, some other element, but if it keeps happening, happening consistently, and there's something else yummy going on, usually over time, the guy's going to win. That has been a pattern for me. And then I'll enter a long-term relationship. I have a tendency to not go quickly, right? I'm probably way slower than the man. And, but then once I'm in, I'm in, I'm definitely, and even that actually is a flowering. Um, so I'm curious though, because obviously, even those relationships, whether they were 10 years, three years, one year, didn't work out. So then I start to question, what about my pickup? You know, what about what's going on in my apple orchard? So can you address that? And how we can gauge, so we start to have, um, maybe we recalibrate that we can really start to hone in on something or somebody that is a much better connection for us. A couple, a couple of different things. If we were doing a longer session, I would, and it's not, you know, personal, but I would, I would start with your relationship with the, your parents and how they courted and what looked like when you were really young, what videotape did you watch going on? So we want to find out that. What if you didn't have, I'm just going to throw in there. What if you didn't have a videotape? Like I can tell you, my parents weren't together when I was born. I mean, there's obviously a whole story, blah, blah, blah. You know, what was in Israel when my mom moved back to New York when she was pregnant with me and I was born there and ta-da. I didn't meet my dad till I was five. So like, what does that mean? So there, there might be some illusion of like, again, putting in some story of what this should look like and what it could look like. So I wanted, would want to make sure that you're not doing that in the beginning, that you're, you know, I know you're cautious, which is, I think really important and a good sign. But maybe you're putting a story to it. And then I would also say, is there some obligation if somebody has spent so much time courting you, that you start attuning to that, like, oh, a good, you know, I should do this because, because I'm, or do you get to a point where they've courted you for a long time and be like, yeah, that's not it. So I'm going to exit stage left now. What has been the pattern if somebody's gotten to a certain phase, what percentage do you continue dating them versus cut them loose after three or four months? Yes, very good question. And I would say both for sure. Because if it's not, I, I, and while I, I think I have some of the elements, some elements of obligation at some level. Overall, I would never be with anybody who I, you know, if they're, if it ain't going on, it ain't going on. I would definitely, you know, with kindness.  But I would absolutely let them know with clarity. This is not romantic for me. And I think it's better if we, you know, part ways. Yeah. So what I would say, what I, what I do with my clients is from the very beginning, as we're going through all these different patterns, I'm always doing a deep dive of certain questions before we address what the pattern is. Actually, I do the deep dive questions. Then I give them the quiz blindly. Then we go into why it was that I gave them the quiz and the nuances of that. Then there's some follow up work to really help you hone in on that and understand it. So throughout the time I'm collecting all the descriptors of who it is that you are in a partnership, who it is that you're looking for in a partnership, and that we that you want to create. And so by the end we go through each of those. And I make sure that they're in a positive, not in the negative. We go on a scale of one to 10, how important is each of these. You'll find that I really emphasize the value based traits. And a lot of the physical traits will really drop down. You'll probably have maybe four or five physical traits. Most of this is going to be value based traits. And anything that's a seven through a 10 stays on, and it becomes actually two columns, like 10 point type. It's pretty intensive. And both of us know this is what I've said before this person comes on board. This is really, really important to me. This first column is more important than this column. And so both you and I, I encourage my clients to get there as much as I'm looking for them. I want them to be looking and you go, okay, does this person fit 75 80% of what I'm looking for? And do I in turn sit his bill? So if you can get in that ballpark, you go, there's a good foundation. We've got a lot of shared values, a lot of shared vision of what it was that we want to create timing plays a big deal in that. And so as you're getting into it, you're actually, I have a whole series of questions that you ask that you're opening them up to tell you more about their vision. And you're telling their vision. And then you're also looking for any yellow flakes. And what I like to do when you're first going on these dates with people, if something comes up with the yellow flag, hopefully not a red flag, but maybe go, I don't know enough. Listen, I could have totally taken this out of context. What I'm going to do is reserve my judgment on that. I'm going to put that up on a shelf. I'm going to come up with some really great questions that when the time is right, I can ask around that subject. For right now, I'm going to give them three benefit of the doubts as to why they might have done that.  And so you have this ability to keep on the positive, keep adding that. That's when you get to see, is there enough of this here?  We've gotten past this date or this mile marker or whatnot. And then you come back and you've asked the questions. You might still have some yellow flags in there. And that's when you open up to this relationship vision conversation. You get to share what matters most to you. And then in turn that next time you meet with them, you're asking them to like, what's important? What are some of the rituals you've seen that, you know, your parents did or somebody else that you really like to incorporate into our, you know, if it was us. I also say, don't even say they are the possibility of being in your long-term relationship vision. Yeah. Really don't know. Like five days, 10 days, 15 days. You don't know. That's the one that's going to be around forever. You're investigating. You're getting information for your heart. So when you say this is a vision that I had before you came along, you know, I'd really done a lot of look into this of what matters most to me as both a partner and what I want to call today. And so let me share that with you if you don't mind. And I'd like to know what's important to you. I also kind of toss in some things that are really humorous to see if they pick up on it and like come back. Are you paying attention? Are you paying attention? And then the next time you're going to have a really big conversation, what you want to do is say, Hey, I heard you say this and this. I really like X, Y and Z about us. However, there's a couple of things that caused me a little concern that happened and I would love, you know, I might have taken out of context. I might not have understood your story behind that, but I really love some clarity on it. Would you mind if I bring that up to you? And so you bring it up in that way. That's really undefended. And then you say, well, what, what about that? And then you should step back. Don't try to say anything. See if they dig themselves a hole or if they go, having a bad day. I was really, that wasn't my best self. Sorry about that. Then you go, okay, I'm going to go back to that. I'm going to go back to that. That action or that word or whatever they did. Is it tied to their core being? Is it tried to, you know, their core values? And if it is awesome exit, you don't need to waste any more time. You've got your answer. But if they go, that's not who I want to be. That's not intended to be. I'd love to change. Would you help me change? Yes. I would love what would that look like? How can I support you in that? I'm going to be broken easily. So you're going to have to have this conversation three times and it's okay. And if it, you can't help them, then you get outside resource that they can go to. So you're not nagging. You're not the coach. You're not the person trying to tell them how to do what to do. They get that outside help, but at least they've admitted that's something that they want to do. That allows you guys to build a better. Good. And so that's the core values. And then you get that opportunity. So you're inviting that in. So the cool thing is after a few of those conversations that 75% of both them could go. To 87% or 90% and you're got like the strongest.  So I think the ability for you to do that, do diligence in such a way that you're really helping that person kind of puff up their chest and go, that and she's gonna continue to support me to be that best person. That's awesome. And basically- Joey, is it wrong if I wanna marry you? Oh, you're so cute. You're so cute. You're so cute. Not at all.  You're like amazing. Really, like everything you're saying is so, it's just so beautiful. And you're saying things I never considered before. You have such a unique point of view and I'm so grateful you're not hard. You know, I've been doing this a while and you know some of the people that I've had on and I'm not gonna say much more, but like sometimes it's so hard and I don't respond well to that and I don't know how people work with that but there's such, I feel like I'm in water with you which is a great feeling. To be buoyed and nurtured and held and all of that. And I feel like the possibilities, it also feels to me like I'm not boxed in when I hear you and I'm speaking very euphemistically that it isn't just, oh, I met somebody. And by the way, I met some of my sides, my tangents because I'm finding things that I've done wrong in the past listening to you, right? So it's not a one and done.  I am gonna nag or coach or, you know even though it looks like it's coming in the guise of I'm communicating, I'm telling you my wants and needs but it actually brings about the demise of something. So I hear you coming up with a completely unique methodology that is an invitation should someone choose to have it. Let's create the we, we're in this together. I see this, how do you feel about it? Oh, you'd like to work on it? Great, I'm on board, I'll support you. Ain't gonna be me. I'm not doing the work for you or with you but I'm here to love you and support you through it. Yeah. And you tapped on something I warned everybody it happened to me, it happens to the best of us if you find somebody and you're like, wow, that's it. I've been looking, I'm so excited and they just get the ball rolling. If they don't know this stuff that I've taught them beforehand they're going to inevitably screw it up which is really sad. Kind of like, don't do it.   I have one person for the rest of my life and especially if you got your stuff together and they got their stuff together but you really got yourself, is that good enough for me? And it's like, voice of doubt happens when you reach that point and you have a bit of fear and you're leaning more into fear than into love. What you do is you find something that's wrong with that person. You're, oh, there it is, there it is. Hang my hat on it, gotta go, bye. And you don't even have the conversation or the wherewithal to go, hey, can I raise the bar? Would you come up to this bar with me and could we do this tango together? You just go, that's my exit, I'm outta here. And so many good relationships have ended there. So many people in their 70s, 80s come to me and go, fuck, that was the regret that I had. That was the regret, I let that one go and that was a really good one. I'm like, oh, that is the worst, worst, worst, worst. I feel so bad for people with it. I keep teaching people the languaging because I understand what you're talking about but I think the languaging has to be very specific to create a safe space and to make an invitation and to let somebody know I'm on that team, you and team us. Yeah, instead of it being this, so many books that are out there, it's a game of some sort, it's, oh, this or that and if you did that then you can only do this and I'm like, oh, it's totally different person than any of, this Wii has never been created before so don't put some blanket thing on it and I'm gonna bring in a story that happened yesterday. So I have had a client for six years, he dated somebody who was in a relationship that just ended about seven months ago and so he was finally ready to date and he said, I don't want anybody to think I'm looking for the one, I just want to date, I've never dated, dated, just dated. That's how it is. Yeah, and so I was couching it like that although he said anybody you make an introduction has to be close enough to be the one so that if I do like them then that's okay. And I'm like, good, okay. That's good. That's good. So second, first, first thing went on date only went to two out of the three dates he was supposed to when he was here in the Bay Area and he chose somebody and they've just hit it off. They've just totally, totally hit it off and we were having that conversation and he, well, she should do that or this and I said, not, not, not, not, no. Let's look at where she's coming from and who she is and let's have extreme empathy for the situation that she's in at this time but they've now become a one and they jumped into it quickly because of everything that's going on in this environment.  Well, she should be more logical. And I'm like, no, she shouldn't. Cause you don't want, if you wanted that square job like, you know, Hillary Clinton look about her that was going to take care of business. That's your logical gal. You don't want her in bed with you. You want in this heart shape, you know, feminine has this heart can be this like respite and her way she looks at the world is very different from that and that's who you actually are going to have the best long-term relationship with. So don't try to stick her back in the box or in the box of testosterone driven women that you're just doing. So, oh wow. And I actually explained that I'm just doing a new line of research because I posted something on my Facebook page of me when I was in my early twenties and my face shape, I believe has shifted. Wow. I was, I took the test for Dr. Fisher before it was published in the book with her off the charts, explore totally strong double secondary. They were the exact same of builder and director. And people, when they meet me, they're like, well, you have to be negotiator. You have to be, right? Well, my work has cultivated the negotiator and I love and I've always been drawn to that because it was kind of my weak link, but my face shape has shifted and I'm so, and I know that you can do that because I know people, doctors who have worked with people who had to have braces or their bite was off and they helped them shift. So, I'm curious and I'm gonna be doing some more science around how that might have happened and my own thing, but I was telling him, I said, my brain, I used to go in, I had just had two business meetings where I used to be able to go, that's what we need to do. We're gonna get there and we're gonna go, go, go, go. Do, do, do, do. And now I'm like, oh, but we could do this and we could do that and look at this.  I'm so sorry, it was so funny. And I said, so she's doing that. And so we just gotta like work with it, okay? Oh, that's fascinating. And we're gonna talk about that in just a minute because I love this. I wanted to say that Hal wrote, I just registered with Joy on her website with appreciative comments for her being a guest on this show today. Thanks so much for the great introduction. You rock, thank you, Hal, for participating so much. And for anybody else who has comments, please, please, please go ahead and write. We're gonna do our best to address them and you can see there's so much, so much we could do here. Talk about faces a little bit. And you were just talking about yours. You can reference yours because you have a very distinctive face and people will be able to see it as you describe things. Of course, you're welcome to use me and I just have to say, somebody wrote, somebody wrote, this is such a princess outfit. Do you know what? And I love this because it has a princess vibe to it. You know, when I was growing up, I did not have Barbie dolls. I didn't have a lot of stuff probably that typical little girls do. And this is something I'm getting to express now when I'm older. This is true. I actually have a tutu now. I got it for Halloween. I own that tutu. It is so, and it's so me because it's orange and hot pink. Thank you very much. And it's tool everywhere. And I'm just realizing this with my tutu leggings. I may have to rock it. And no, there is something. I'm actually, I would never say that I'm girly but I'm living so much as an art form to express out into the world. And so just today, there's this very sort of, I don't know what, which princess and which, in my own comic novel, running around the world, traveling and solving things this would be. But thank you for whomever wrote that. I own it. I receive it. And I'm glad you can see the vibe today is very princess. And it feels so apropos for the dating conversation. It really does for me to connect with my softer side, my feminine side. And I have a feeling we both had some of the similar patterns when we were younger. And I think your jawline is very strong but it's also more angled. I'm wondering if anything morphed in your younger pictures, your older pictures. You definitely now run much more in your feminine. And so I'm gonna say I wanna pinch your cheeks are the most classic sign of a negotiator.  And so that's an ability to be more elegant, to be more in their feminine, see both sides of the picture. But based on what you said with your dad not being there for a long time with how you've paved your own way in the world, you had to rocket, you had to rely on that and do, do, do, action, action, action for a lot. You had to kind of carve your own path. And I think once you've done that and you are so settled into who you are that you can bring that feminine out to play more you can be more playful and it's allowing you to really become your authentic self. And again, going back to explorers they have a tendency to do this exploration and then find the one that's the love of their life later in life. So, you're in the line. There's hope. Very much. And there's joy. There's hope and there's joy. Yes, indeed. So that bad boy, the classic combination of explorer with director is that they're running both in the explorer curiosity, love to learn, love to do, see the big picture and then director with the testosterone and the adrenaline. You can see how that could burn somebody out being with them if they weren't used to it. But I see that in power couples. So, Jackie, when she was both Jackie Kennedy and she was Jackie, oh, she chose somebody that had that supreme power because she was playing the game. She was a part of it. She knew that there was some wiggle room on their side and some things were talked about and some things weren't talked about but that was how we played the game. So, she came in expecting that, working with it. If somebody is really running heart-based and not expecting that and not open for that, then they're gonna be hurt and it's gonna be harder for the long run. So, when you're younger and you're wanting to procreate as a female, you are more attracted to that heavy testosterone-driven face. It's that high eyebrow, again, that strong eyebrows, fever-set eyes, chiseled features, squared option and then, strangely enough, they did a study of the Fortune 500 guys. Anybody who is a CEO or a high-level executive, almost all of them have a very thin upper lip which is also a tendency to be director. So, to procreate, you want to have lots of testosterone. It's more healthy and more testosterone-driven guys want more estrogen-driven women. So, you see that coming into play. The facial features are coming out more so in those two because they really affect the face. When I'm looking for somebody who is an explorer or builder, I see that in their context. And so, explorers more often than not will have, you're just what you said. So, this is my canvas. This is my brand. This is how I express myself. Totally what an explorer would say and what you would see when you see them in their picture. They care about what the environment is. They care how they're positioned. All of that comes into play.  It's that this is helping embody who I am. And it doesn't have to be a name brand. Builders, you'll see them almost always more conservative looking. They will have a particular brand that their brands are across the pictures. You're gonna see that they pretty much look this. That's the bill. That's what they do. You know? And so, they also care less about their background. So, you'll see like not as curated photos of them. So, that's really interesting. And I also wanna say when I make introductions 95% of the time I don't share photos. I think sharing photos does an incredible disservice mostly to women because men have a much higher visual cortex of, you know, they're looking first and then they fill in the blanks. We look, but we can stop at 65% and then pause and then we're the choose your sex and we make sure that they're filling in what we're looking for. But what happens is there's so much that can be affected by who's taking the photo, who you're standing in the room next to and what time of month it is, you know, what just happened to you, anything that's going inside your mind. I'm a salty weight. Yeah. Completely, yeah, all the puffiness over here. But it, I went to actually, Brenda Bouchard happened to be in, we shared the same address, it was a PO box. I still have it in San Francisco. I was there. I had just come in from Barbados. It's a fabulous trip after I finished my MBA program and had started Joy of Romance. He's opening the first box of Life Golden Ticket and he, you know, we meet and he signs one, gives it to me and he goes, I'm speaking in Scottsdale at this thing. It's all about women. You should come. Okay. So I signed up to go. I bring a love agent to kind of be my assistant. And I said, you know, one of the things I want you to do is just really help me take photos so I can put a name to a face to everybody we get a business card from. So she was doing that. And of course I liked her. So she was consistent element. I am bad at poker, really bad at poker, but it's so bad when I can read all this, all these different nuances. And I'm like, oh my gosh, you just look at me next to the pictures. And if I don't look good, I don't like that person I'm standing next to. I can't hide it. It's there, you know? So most people don't pick up on that. They just go, oh, that was a nice outfit or I seem to be smiling nice, but they're not seeing the minutia. And again, going back to Hillary, you need somebody to be speaking the truth through their face.   I have spinach. I know I have spinach in my teeth. I have spinach in my teeth. I have spinach in my teeth. And I'm thinking that the person I'm dining with is going, oh, something's wrong with me. She doesn't like me. Something's wrong with me. She doesn't like me. And you guys have just gone in this downward spiral and you're going, going, going, going down. So watch out because you are broadcasting so incredibly loud. The energy that's coming from, that's coming inside your mind. Wow. You always have to look at the person. One again, we'll get left eye gazing, but you want to look at the person with what do I adore about this person? What do I like about this person? And even if you don't particularly care for the person, find something you do like. I love that color blue. That blue is amazing. I love that color blue. And I'm just going to hold that so that you could be your best self around me because it's whatever I can do as somebody. The essence of what flirting is for me is helping somebody leave your presence in an uplifted state. And that you too are uplifted because you have that ability. I love that. Flirting starts way before you're in front of somebody. You need to get yourself in the mindset. You need to know the power of your mind upon the people that are looking upon you. And you have to be very deliberate to that. And that doesn't mean you have to be out there smiling all the time. If you're having PMS and you're not in a good space or you're sick or something like that, do this. You could have that cloak around you. And you can be very limited in the amount of time. But if you're going out 90% of the time, you should be going, I have the power of lift the people that are looking at me even from across the street. And I want to make a positive impact. I want that person to have a better day because they saw me. And this is me helping you be at ease and want to be in my presence more. And that's what I'm doing when I'm flirting. That's so gorgeous. I have a question for you. I honestly do not know how to flirt. I have no, I don't know. I don't get it. Although I've seen women do it. Obviously over the years. And I'm just like, it's a beautiful thing. Somebody who has such a sense, I don't know. It's not really of them somehow of their power, but to also understand what they're doing to somebody and have such great ease. I've seen it and I love seeing it, but I don't understand how to do it. Do you think that's important to learn? Or do you think it's like, just be yourself, don't worry. What do you think? Well, one, I think you do it and you don't know that you do it. So I'd like to dissect more about what it is that you think you don't. Is it just that you're not conscious of it? Because I think you do because you, just the way I was describing it, you love people. I do. You love seeing the best in people. Love bringing out the best in people. That's a flirt. You are doing it whether you know it or not. And then you have the self-confidence to tell them that. Where so many people think it and can't say it, you actually come through and see them. So it's ability to see somebody, to know them, to acknowledge them and you do that. You do it with ease and grace and beauty.  So I think you might not be conscious of it, but you are a good flirt. I feel like one, it's an interesting comment. Thank you for that. And I would have, yeah, I would not have thought that. I guess I have an image in my mind of what flirting looks like. So that's different. And so I did go out on a date. You set me up on a date yesterday and I did go out on a date. And one of the things I have to say, I loved about the first date I was on, because I did too, was laughing. Now that is so sexy to me. So when I was somebody and a man is just in his element and he says things that make me, and I have a big laugh, right? And it's just for real. It was so beautiful. The thing I loved even more, I mean, I love that he had humor. But when I said things and I saw him just throw back his head unexpectedly and laugh, to me, that was the greatest flirt. To me, there's a sense of interesting power in that. And God, I love making people laugh. And especially if somebody can get me and I can get them like that. And of course, levity is just beautiful. So do you also count that as a flirt having humor? Oh, yeah. Anytime you can smile or giggle, I think those are the universal signs of bringing somebody in and elevating them. You're giving them endorphins and probably some dopamine in there. And so it's beautiful. And again, it lasts. When they can think about those moments, then they'll get it again and again. So I think what I would recommend for you is more deliberately cultivating before you leave. I have a really fun exercise that I could walk you through at that time and being of that mindset. Then going, even before I see somebody, I don't know, I used to be terribly, terribly shy. And in seventh grade, my parents stopped moving around. My parents got divorced, it was actually sixth grade. And seventh grade, my mom said from seventh to 12th, we can go to the same school. I've changed schools 13 times by the time I got to seventh grade. I was a minister's daughter. So it's very, better to be quiet than seen and not heard the whole thing. So no wonder I wrote a motorcycle bike when I finally busted. But I knew in seventh grade, when my mom said, you will be at the same place. Oh, thank goodness. Okay, now I can start revealing myself. I can start showing up. And I remember having the conversation in my head very remember where I was and I said, this is not serving my greater purpose. What can I do to shift this? So I chose four things. But I think the most important one was to go, anybody and everybody that I meet is an upcoming character in a book that I'm gonna write. And I need to do character research on this person, truly figure them out. So it allowed me to learn how to ask really good questions to be completely immersed in the presence with them, be excited about what they were saying, show that on my face and continue to get more information. And that there is one of the best things for mastering being able to flirt. Is a true interest in this person. You're not doing it like the manipulative guys that wrote the pickup artists and stuff like that. You're not using NLP in a way to like get what you want out of somebody. You're going, I have an authentic interest in this person. I'm really crazy, cool things you're doing. And I never thought of that. And so your ability to do that is flirting with that person.  Doesn't matter. It doesn't have to be sexual. You can use that in your regard but I'm just gonna touch on that. I think the fact that people who lead with that it's of the three tiers of relationships. That's the easiest one. That's like being a peacock, flirting your stuff. That is so shallow and it leads you to have shallow type relationships. So I think in the fact that we have to be distancing now you have to bring in a more authentic like knowingness of somebody and to go to the different layers without having the physical connection.  Your body. It's horrible. When I was younger, of course I did it, of course. And I always remember, I don't know what train I was on, what fantasy train, but you have all this juju going on with somebody the first time you met them and then you end up going to bed and I would always remember waking up and my God, I am the most sensitive person and I would wake up and it was awkward because all the stuff that needed to be there before making love happen was not. There was no architectural basis. I didn't know how to act. I would just like, how can I get out of here? It was, and often it never manifested. Sometimes it did, but it's not the basis. I think so much has to happen and then there's chemistry for women, right? For us, literally going to bed with somebody that quick sets us up for attachment when in fact the rest of that heart connection and knowingness of someone isn't there. I can talk on like five different major points as to why chemically we shouldn't and physically we shouldn't do this, but the number one one I think women should hear is based on a conversation with one of my friends. She wrote the book Love Factually by Joanna Welch and I've had two in-depth really cool interviews with her. So when she was, when I was listening to it, the first time I was listening to the book, I agreed, I thought she had interviewed some of my clients. I really thought she had interviewed my clients and she was writing a book about it. And then she got to the point where she said the rules, the book, the old fashioned, the book of the rules. I told, yeah, she goes, I totally agree with that.  Well, I went to all female college, like all women's right. What the? You know, and so then I had to listen to the science and listen to the science and then come back and ask her some questions and listen to more.  So what happens, go back to the hunter and gather days. Men are hunters and women are the gatherers. Men needed to hunt when they were looking at the object of their desire, they're going, going, they're strategizing. They're building up dopamine. They're building up testosterone. They're building up those love drugs. Really excited, but dopamine's the most important one. If they were able to get what the object of their desire, no matter where it is in the very beginning or a month or a month and a half or three months down the road, guess what?   And then they're dopamine crashes and they always have a crash on the backside of that. So you could have it in a crash or you could have, oh, wow, you know, a crash, but oh, wow, I worked that hard and I got that. That's so exciting. And that's what they're gonna think forever more. So having sex early on, that happens, but now you flash forward three, four, five, six years into the relationship, a little bit of bumps in the road. Maybe the baby's come along, the female is sniffing. She might actually be sniffing somebody else now. She's mid-cycle, her luteinizing hormone's really high. That's the only time a guy that's not jealous is gonna show jealous tendencies.  So that's when distrust actually comes in and it was a micro-tear in the beginning when you first had sex that fast, but it comes out and becomes like that four to six years down the road or more when anything might be called into question between the two of you. Then you have so much more work and you can't bring that back. Deep, wow. We are gonna have, gosh, okay, I do have three more questions before we end. I want you once again to let people reiterate because you're offering something so extraordinary here, basically folks, and I'm gonna let her address this, but she's saying she will work with you for free. You need me that you saw us here in order to get this, but tell them again so they know, I know people have already signed up, but I wanna make sure the rest who are gonna also see the replay have the opportunity. I can't tell you saying this out loud, being with you, Joy, and you know, I just think the world of you, I really do. I think you're so special. I feel so just like, how did I get so lucky that you came into my sphere, but you're here and I wanna share you with people because I'm single right now and I know that's something that I have been thinking about. I had a breakup literally right before the lockdown started, like what a time to go through a mishmash of grieving and suddenly being an extrovert and being alone and at the same time, I fully embraced spiritually what's happening like I get it, I love it and I'm doing the work. And I also reflected on, if I was, well, if my guy and I hadn't broken up, we would be together in his house right now with our dog, loving on each other, having an amazing time, meditating and exploring and going on hikes and doing all sorts of things, but that's not happening. So it makes it really clear to me what I wanna do, what I wanna have. And also as much as look, I have a lot of self-love and self-esteem, I truly do, but I'm also someone who grows. So it keeps up that pain point of what do I need to do to become a better partner? I'm pretty clear those pieces I really wanna work on and what an amazing time to do that, but also to be dating. So for anyone who's feeling what I'm saying or you have a different story, but it's just like darn it, I've been alone too long, I'm really ready. Like it's clear to me having and sustainability is so important. Tell them what you are opening the door for them and inviting them into. Yes, so if you message me again, either through my contact form on my website, joyofromance.com or joyatjoyofromance.com or through Facebook, I will help you go through your top two relationship patterns and you're gonna be going through the journey to be in my database. It leads you through a lot of deep dive questions. We'll have a mini session before you do it and then you'll fill it out and then we'll come back and we'll do the assessment. And so it's essentially you've had two sessions with me. If you then ever wanted to progress into being a matchmaking client then we move into all 10 patterns or more. And so with that, I think probably 85% of all men started out that way. And then they had an introduction or two and they're like, yeah, well, most other matchmakers I've worked with or like been in their database, I felt like it was some magical defining rod that they were using and like, like, maybe, maybe. And then they go and I think it was, John, I feel as though I've now spoken to somebody who has a Harvard PhD on the subject and really has a legitimate like science base. This is why that works and that's why that doesn't work. And yeah, your picker was off on that.  And so all of that, I mean, I've been doing it for 14 years. I have this ability to see this umbrella and then do this deep dive down and then to find out where those points are that you could refine and show them to you and say, let's work on those. So this ability to get into a database via this and just saying, you know, Debbie's name is allowing you to start that process. And then I'll, you know, tell you the other ones but you'll be in there. And then the cool thing is I work with every six weeks, eight Bay Area based matchmakers. Every two months I meet with my nationwide matchmakers and then depending on where my clients are, I meet with international matchmakers. So I'm always, and I'm in a bunch of communities that we rely upon one another in our networks. And each one works a little bit differently but I only work with integrity based matchmakers. There's a lot of not so good ways of working as a matchmaker out there behind the scenes. And that's one of the reasons I actually didn't want to become a matchmaker for a long time because I had been perfectly in it hearing about it. But I feel like I've been matching people since I was in high school. I love connecting people. It's like whether it's for a particular business thing whether it's for a friendship or whether it's for love. I just innately do it. And so I'm so happy. I think like the last four years, another matchmaker just asked me this because she was actually thinking of exiting matchmaking and just going into consulting. She was also a business consultant and helped people understand patterns and relating to people.  And I said, yeah, it's easier. But she goes, do you love it? Do you still like it? And I'm like, four years ago I had this epiphany. Oh my gosh, I get to be a private investigator for the hearts of my clients. I get to go to the nuances and I go, where is that person? And who would know that person? And how do we get to that person?  There's a very high echelon that I work with that we do a different type of search for them. That's, it requires a lot of dollars behind the scenes to get it revving. But the caliber of people, the type of people that they're looking for are of this. And so we, it's this whole team of secret love agents and love agents. And I kind of work for the FBI in that regard. Like who is he? Let's profile him. Where is he going? How do we get to him? Who's single? And so I really, really love what I do now. And not just the coaching part of it, but all of it. It keeps me interested in life and my career. And I do all these subsidiary things around love. Like this humongous dinner party that will someday go across America right now. It's just in the Bay Area. But I did one for singles and one for couples and it's called Devoured. So I might put a link to the video so people can see it in the comments. Okay, that would be fun. I would love to see that. So a couple of ending questions here. What do men need to know? We've actually had a lot of men watching this, which I love. So what do men not know about meeting women, about dating women, about what women desire? What would you love to clear up? How many hours? We could do a couple of episodes. I was just starting with episode one. I started Joy Romance, like I think I said, is because I felt like women had been talking about relationships forever. And that men had been squished in their emotional intelligence around interpersonal relationships. And I wanted to help open that up. And I first wanted to go to people's minds. So being able to understand the science of why they should do what they should do. And then knowing from that, that that's just the beginning. Being able to then drop into your heart and into your sexual chakra and being able to integrate all of that and show up as a whole being, not just to stick with a head on it. So important, so, so important. And it depends on the individual and how I'm gonna take them on that path. So one of the gentlemen that I love working with once we've gotten into committed relationship is the gentleman. He used to be a somatic psychologist. And then he turned into a Shabari rope artist and he uses that to help people learn non-verbal communication and to attune with their partner. Not even having to tie it, just playing with the rope and knowing how to move and teaching a guy to take action to be able to envelop a woman. And even if he was the same size as her, you can still envelop somebody and allow that person to go, and say, I got the reins and I'm gonna take you baby. And a lot of guys don't know that because a lot of men I found are really emotionally intelligent, but they were raised by females. They were raised by their moms who were powerhouses and they don't know how then to embrace their masculine too. So I have, I can do a certain amount, but I have a handful of gentlemen, coaches that I work with that I bring them in to help them learn how to do that dance. But I start with going, you need to know that this is where it starts but you have to go up into your heart. She can't just feel your front in it and doing it all in your mind. It has to be connected to the feelings and that love and heart connection. So that's one and two, just knowing more and more you can both sides of the picture of who you are in partnership and playing to your strengths, understanding what your weaknesses are, giving permission to somebody to see your weaknesses and say, please help me on this, really, really important. Really important.  I'm just saying, not that I've ever been there. Not that I've ever seen anybody do that, but I have. And that was actually why my last relationship ended. He didn't communicate throughout an entire year plus. And by the time he did, he was a volcano. And it was just, I couldn't hear because it was too much. It was all too much rather than as things were progressing. And I'm actually, I love communication. You couldn't find a better partner to share things with who wants things to work, who actually wants you to be happy. Vice versa, by the way, too. And I think like one of my biggest values is being heard and seen. And I treasure that and I hope I give that to other people. It's important to me. So I can tell you, if there are men listening, what Joy is saying is so, so, so important to trust your partner. Also that they can handle what you're gonna say, right? I don't think if we have the right words, blame never goes far, but to let them know how you feel and what's not working, but what you would rather. And even if you don't know what that bridge is to get you there, to create an invitation that you might both co-work on something. It is so, so deeply important. And I am now clear going forward how much I need that, how much I need somebody who's gonna meet me there. And you can have all the other scenes, right? The creativity and the companionship and the conversation and there can be such beautiful elements, but without that communication, it's difficult. And I will say, as a very strong woman in the world who's got it like, I've got it with business, totally autonomous and all that, but I so deeply want that nasty place. I so deeply want a man who's got the willingness to step up and create that strength. It feels like when I say that like a Roman warrior with the metal breastplate on and I can just move into that. And trust me, I'm waiting to be cherished in that way. And I respond really well to it. So if other women are resonating, feel free to post like Huzzah, whatever it is you're feeling with those words, but I know it's very important to me that C word of being cherished. Admirations. Yes. There's the top 10 emotional needs by one of my teachers. And what I do is I take people through and see, of course we want all of these, but what are the top five as what we assess? And from that, what does that mean? Because it might mean something completely different for you versus somebody else. And one admiration I did not, I didn't put all the pieces together until I had a client who was a widow with five kids. She was with her husband as he was having problems for about seven years. They couldn't make love. Every time one of his friends came over, he would gush on how he won the lottery. He had the best wife. He was so amazed that he was overjoyed. This person could love him this much with all of this stuff that she was putting up with. And she said, there was no way I would have stayed that happily married if he didn't have that. So that ability to do that in front of others is also really important. And but it might come across, I just need it behind the scenes. I just need to write me a letter and tell me how much something I did appreciate here. You appreciate it. It comes in different ways. So another way of becoming interdependent and once you're in the relationship, I have these patterns where people do the quizzes that they did with me, but they do it with their partner in mind. So they take it themselves, then they put their hat on and they pretend as though they're their partner, they go through it, and they administer it to their partner so they get their straightaway answers. And then they go through and have a really deep dive conversation around each of those to say, hey, I totally guessed wrong on that. Can you explain to me why that's important, what the story is behind that? And then a really subtle thing that very few people do is on a scale of one to 10, how important is that to you? This is something that will also get you a hiccup in your relationship is somebody will go, oh, he said he does that or he does this and he's gonna have to keep doing that. And then you go, no, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you really wanna do that? How core is that to you? Oh, a two or a three? I thought it was a 10 and I was gonna leave you because of that. So as you go, and this is the we were creating and you've just tapped into something that's really important to me as a 10 and I need to know how important that is to you and why that's important to you. And often it's not even the act of doing it, it's the why that you guys need to get to. So people like that.  Like how could you not, right? People hire coaches for all sorts of stuff but like this is for me, one of the most important elements, love, relationships, sustainability, great partnership. Like, wow, what can be created from there? And so when you talk about this, if there is someone from single to partnership to a long-term relationship, love, add-in to an item, what does that look like? Like do people do a mastermind with you for a year or like a year-long coaching? How does that work in your world? It always starts with understanding their patterns, whether or not they're single now or they're in a relationship and we do that assessment. After they've done the assessment with me, they have access to me or someday I won't be able to handle everybody, but to one of my coaches, I have four coaches that came to me between July and August last year and I was not soliciting them. Four corners of America all reached out to me and said, I wanna learn what you do and could you help me figure that out? So I've now designed a training program and then an affiliate link. They have their own businesses, but my rollover coaching or somebody wants to coach with somebody that's not as expensive in my session right, then they go with one of them. So we are building and having fun and I'm teaching them the psychology behind what I do and the methodology and so they're gonna be helping me in that regard. But right now anybody that's one of my clients works with me for the rest of their lives. And so as they continue, if they had a hiccup or one of my favorite clients, I have no idea, it wasn't through a love agent. His team found me and he started working with me. Just a break, this was just so funny and one of the best days ever. He goes, yeah, I met with the Dalai Lama yesterday and I'm meeting with you today and I'm meeting with Joe Biden tomorrow and I'm like, yeah, squeeze me in there anytime. I'll go with that. That's awesome. Wow, who is this? This is a client? It was a client, yeah. And he's taken now? He's taken and he found is the one on Tinder. When he went over to Hawaii to go to a wedding and he was the only guy that was stag and his syndrome just started and his friend said, you all guys should not be stag. Like get on this app and they were like looking with him and this woman had just stepped off the plane from San Francisco and they connected and boom. So another thing for women regarding this, this guy was ready to be ready. When guys come to work with me, they're ready to be ready. They are excited and they have their ducks in a row and they're a hunter, they're gonna find they're the one and if you start playing around with them and doing any kind of like not giving them the time of day or like seeing them after like several days, they're gonna drop you like a hot potato and go into somebody who's really gonna show up and wanna be there for them. So morning, we're the warning there because he dropped a lot of people who are awesome but thought they could play a game with him. It's like, don't do that. So they got together, it was beautiful. He went through about the first three months we met together. He said, oh, how do I have this conversation? Here's the yellow flags. We had that conversation. We met another three months down the road. He was like went through some more patterns with her then by the time of year rolled around she was gonna ask her hand in marriage, came to me, said a few more things that he needed to kind of refine. We went back and refined that and he proposed and now they've met with me maybe just kind of a touch up once a year and do their pattern. So, and then another cool subcategory that I've had of is moms who hire me for their late 20, early 30 something old daughters who have everything else taking in their life except for the relationship house and they were like, please let me get some help for you. And so it was last summer I had the most beautiful letter written from one of those moms saying, my daughter not only met with you through this whole thing, she met with you as before they were gonna move in when they moved in, when they were gonna get engaged before they had the kids. Now they have two beautiful grandkids. I couldn't be happier and I just say that she wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for the work you guys did. And I was like, oh my gosh, so sweet. So I love it. I do think that it's, you don't have other people in your life and you usually don't have the best parents to watch over if they're even still here to have both of them to talk to. And when I ask usually about the third session, who do you know that is a couple that really has their act together in this tipping and all cylinders everywhere that you could go and ask for help from or to watch and observe if they are your mentee. Really few people can tell me, yes, I have those people to go back to. And then we start picking up on this fairy tale and putting in stories and then that's a slippery slope. So having somebody who can understand where you are and who you are without the judgment and to go, I have another couple who are extremely unique in their patterns and they are one of the few people who can be explorative in their sexual union with one another without going on a slippery slope and accidentally doing something to hurt them and damage and cause some obstacle on both sides. And it's really thin sliver, but they got it going on. They have the resource on the outside. They have the agreements in place and they're both set up internally with their patterns to be able to handle that.  So you have to nurture that. Don't take it for granted. And then right here at the end, Joy, just because we started out with this and I promised I was gonna address it and I love to not disappoint but appoint and make sure I follow through. The very beginning you brought up oil and water and I know we've woven in and out through some of that but I also wanna volley this back to you. Is there anything else around being oil and water that you wanna share with us that we should be aware of that we can maybe use to write our path? This will go younger. Younger is this is most important if you think you're gonna have a family with someone that explore personality with a builder.  However, when an explorer goes, I'm ready to settle down. I finally kind of got my ducks in a row, figured this stuff out enough to want a family. I'm ready. Who looks like a good mom or a dad but that builder who's got their act together did everything right, has all their checks box stuff and has the savings account and all these wonderful things that look like that could be a really good fit for a mom or a dad and because they act so different when they're first falling in love, not because they're trying to be deceptive but because the chemistry is different. I think that when an explorer gets with a builder then they are thinking about getting married, they're continuing to rub up the love drugs then they're thinking about having kids they're rubbing up the love drugs and it really takes a much more elongated path for them to drop out completely and for you to see the true explorer, not that the explorer but the true builder of this. I like everything in the box. I like everything to be planned. I really care about whether people think about me. I think about what people think about us and I have interest maybe in like four or five categories where as an explorer is like, I will have interest for the rest of my life and here and there and everywhere and this is so exciting and look at that. And so they look a bit ADD to the builder and the builder's like me and you're looking like you're kind of boring and then you have a child in this mix and you've become each other's arch enemies because you're trying to protect the child and when somebody doesn't care what other people think and the other person does, one person's spontaneous, one's planning this is the number one recipe for failed marriage. Okay, so that and then I have 70% of my clients have a very strange combination of being explorer builder. They confuse people. Yeah, so they didn't know they're confusing people and the suppression of the serotonin does you don't see that builder part come out until later. And so if they haven't forewarned and taught the other partner who's probably running morgues for this is going to happen then this is what this might look like and do you still want to be with somebody like that? And how can I help you navigate that water when I do? And you'll see when somebody takes this test don't just look at the numbers but look and see if in a particular profile they go extremely agree and extremely disagree excuse the numbers but it's really significant. So you'll have some builders who are like this has to be the letter of the law this has to be in the box but I can play around overhead this isn't that big of a deal. The things that are core to and really important value that they have are the more sticky ones that have to be just so whereas the other ones can be more fluid and they're okay with them. So those are two important ones. The other thing for women is if you are on the pill and you're looking for your husband you know at this time of day with all those being quarantined at night but it's gonna be a little weird but you really, really want to get off the pill before you get married and you actually probably want to do some other type of birth control near the time you're thinking of being very committed to this person because we smell and the first time I was on television I did a whole episode on that but you're in essence when you're luteinizing hormone is very, very high you're sniffing for the polar opposite immune system it's called the MHC and so you are attracted to people who can you can procreate with to make the best babies possible with the best immune system. When you're on the pill. Sorry, go ahead. When you're on the pill you're attracted to people who are like your brother and your father in their immune system. Yep.  So can I tell you, so I really understand so much what you're saying. I can mindfully smell. So let me try. I was born in the year of the dog that explains everything but I'll give you an example how well I can smell and this is great. It's a gift obviously but it's also it's a lot sometimes what I can perceive. I once had a gentleman come when I used to do radio on a physical station in Burbank genius who this human is and his ability is to heal. He was an actor. He was a definite name actor in the sense that he had played you won't know who it is most of you it's a little too long ago but he had played Superman on television.  And I know that typically he would have walked in anybody's place of work or studio or station and he could have been very disruptive but he sat across from me and then we had an amazing we actually did a few series together and it was phenomenal. We videotaped it but the whole time I could smell him and he smelled all I could think in my head was this man smells like family like he was nothing on the Richter scale of my femaleness, zero, zilch because I was clear I could never have a relationship with this person and it's happened before.  Well, I have to say that because of joy I never thought I had a type now I'm seeing because of you like, oh my God I actually do there is a certain human form that I go for and then if you add to that whatever these are these pheromones, hormones that a man is giving out that I can actually perceive at a level that I know of it that it like makes me banana crazy right, like have to have you and that's a whole different buffet to experience I know what you're talking about, like intimately at my events, I have people test and I don't know if you probably have because of the wine connection have you tested if you're a super taster? No, that would be interesting but I would imagine I am yeah, there's like a super taster like a medium range super taster and then the levels below it but I have at my dinner parties especially the couples one that we do that more often than not and I say now if you're a partner or a partner in the future happens to be a super taster please defer to them and all things smell in the house and cologne and perfume because it's so visceral for them that you will be turning them off like even if you eat the and then there I've written a book on effort DJI's back in the day and the first third is the history of Apogee jacks and there are 21 anti-Apogee jacks that I talk about don't eat them before a first date second like don't in the first like three days leading up to that they don't eat them just don't eat them because it will change your body chemistry and if that whiff is what does it for you and everything else is perfect why would you like do that? So your gentleman actually went on six five dates with somebody and he called me and he goes this is the weirdest thing I have to say that I have to break up with her but I can't I don't like her smell and I don't know how to say that in a nice kind of way could do coaching on how to say that so I said wait, wait, wait before you do that let's see if she consumed one of these 21 different anti-Apogee jacks and I just give a couple throw some apesides garlic asparagus that's interesting okay that makes sense as some people red meat just doesn't think it'll process it well alcohol, hard alcohol in particular don't process it very well lots of the really heavy duty spices that you would find in Indian food come out in different ways and there's just certain things that some people with some blood type process and some people with another blood type will process a different way so it's not across the board it's really who you are and I almost didn't want to date my now husband because of this I worked out next to him at the gym and I was like poof, doofda, yeah like you a lot but yeah talk to the hand and when I finally like over time we became friends and then we did some work together and this and I realized that okay there's enough here I want to figure this out so I started cooking at his house and I started monitoring what he was eating when he was around me and I did I got it down to three things that if he had those you know and so I said okay here's the deal he was so sad because he had to listen to me talk about smelling and these aphrodisiac things for something he thought that I was going to kick him to the curb and it was over and I'm like no no no I did my research before I brought this to your attention and it's three things and all I'm asking is if we're going to go on a big trip somewhere or it's like an important date that's coming up I'm just going to ask you not to consume those but any other time I can deal with it as long as I know it comes and it goes and he did because here you are happily married 10 years later yeah wow aphrodisiacs and then then their turnoffs so folks Joy Nordensstrom from Joy of Romance now you understand why I wanted her to come speak with you today and if you are single and ready to mingle ah it's the worst expression ever right we're not even going there but you know what I'm saying you're ready to elbow bump exactly in these days like hi wow we need to be like unicorns and have something here to like connect with I have to say it's a beautiful time who will help you meet people I think it's so important we know the quarantine's not over and what if this happens again because that's actually been discussed what if this pandemic goes away and there's an uprising again really like this is the time I run the Dare to Dream podcast there's a reason why I talk about creating your dreams I think is one of the most important things in life life goes so quickly none of us know when our anyone's last day is on the planet so create what it is you prefer and she will help you get into her system and she is offering to you if you will bring the fashion girl easy name has a ring to it dashing Debbie or dare to dream which is my 13 year podcast or even this Facebook group visible visionaries any combo platter she will bring you in for free right now and give you two sessions which is really generous and help you get on the path and I will bring up the point that she spent some time talking about which is couples who especially right now I mean my big joke is everybody quarantine we're going to see many more babies in nine months and many more divorces please don't be a statistic if you're finding it's difficult chances are things are coming up and begging to be healed and she is the person clearly after listening to her who can help you get through this time and become much stronger and more loving partnership on the other end go to joyofromance.com and connect with her there and she will help you through this and for folks who are looking I'm going to throw out my own little plug here who are stuck at home and you've got a book to write go to my website Debbie Daschinger.com I will help you get this book out I'm really excited I'm starting a new membership for people who are ready to write their book and we're going to do once a month where I teach you how to write your book and once a month where I bring in a healer to clear all those obstacles that are going on inside of you so just feel the possibilities there for writing but for your life too and maybe even your romance and also for people who don't want to write an entire book go to debbie.net slash anthology and you can write a chapter about a dog and if you don't want to write I'll interview you and we'll have it transcribed into your chapter it's very simple and I deliver an amazing product there so there's so many ways to connect with joy and I so we can help you during this time to have actually wouldn't it be wonderful at the end of all this when you if you could say that was the pivot moment of my life everything changed what I created who I decided to be who I decided to step up step up as and what I decided to invite into my life and own and you do deserve love you do deserve great partnership and your person out there and wouldn't it be nice to have somebody who's got all these skills and facilities and tools and database to help you get there joyofromance.com and folks thank you so much for joining us anything you want to say joy oh I just had such a pleasure I I we could talk through and talk and talk so thank you for letting it go as long as it did I just adore you and how you're helping so many people in the world and I I appreciate the fact that you are a good flirt and now you know it absolutely I'm going to own that part of myself thank you for pointing that out this has been such an amazing exploration I knew it would be and we're going to sign up now and we adore you and go get the love you deserve