Sub-Saharan African immigrants in France have limited knowledge about HIV-preventative treatments such as post-exposure prophylaxis, PEP, and pre-exposure prophylaxis, PEP. Those with lower educational attainment, those without access to the health care system, and those who engage in high-risk sexual behavior are more likely to be aware of these treatments. This article was authored by Karna Cooley-Balley and Goslin, Severine Carillon, and others.


Good morning everybody Monday morning the 14th of March 2022. Welcome. Good to see you here Do me a favor put your comments in that chat section there if you're watching this live if you're not watching the live You can put it in the comment section below the video. We're gonna have a blast today.  We're gonna share some ideas So don't forget use that chat section guys We can talk to each other that way and we can go back and forth Today's session is all about doing a little bit of research, okay? A little bit of research is good, right? What we're gonna do is we're gonna talk about Market research online research that type of thing and we're not gonna make it boring. It's gonna be fun This can be fun. Okay, and this is the thing that if you do it properly All of the rest of your sales online are gonna just fall into place So just just understand that by the end of this today, you're gonna know how to do this It's gonna be simple and easy Also, don't forget if you haven't subscribed yet hit that subscribe button turn it from red to gray and don't forget Bring the bell turn on all bell notifications here notified each and every time I go live That's so important guys if you don't turn on the notification part even though you subscribe You won't know when I go live. You won't know when I upload a video Hey, I'm uploading three videos a week now and going live probably Three days a week at least so I don't want to miss out seeing you guys. I really don't Generally, I'm gonna be going Monday Wednesday and then either Friday or Saturday So if you want to catch one of the live ones, you can do that If you're watching this and it's not live, you know, just use the comments section I come back through every couple days and I answer all of those questions all those comments I say hi to you guys. So feel free to do that I also have a free course that's gonna be in the description below So at the end of this video, you will be able to see a link there You can click and learn no credit card require. So let's get down to it. Let's get down to it Let's get down to the fact that we're gonna be doing some market research. Okay, market research is really pretty cool I mean really to compete today's competitive markets It's essential that you kind of keep your eye on what's going on. What are the market conditions? What's happening? What's the consumer behavior? What's the emerging trends? What is all this? This can be really difficult to do if you don't know how to do it But in this video, I'm gonna walk you through it. It's gonna be super easy Market conditions. Gosh, I know since the beginning when I started in 2009. They change so much and they change so frequently So this is something that's always got to be done on it if you want to make money online Okay, it's just it's a little bit effort, but it's not that hard So what is the role of market research? Why are we doing this market research really is a process of getting information about your target audience During the process you're going to discover who your customers are what they want And it also allows you to answer any questions that they may have and it's going to make you more useful to your audience So what are the demographics of your target audience? How old are they? How young are they? You know Where are they living? You know, what what's their income? What are their interest in buying habits? Where do they what do they think about the business and the industry that you're in? What problems could you help them with? I mean, that's the main thing right there And how can you connect with them? How can you actually talk to these people? I know I connect a lot with my audience on YouTube. I'm here. I do live videos. I do recorded videos You know understanding your target audience will give you a just indefinite amount of opportunities It's going to persuade people to buy it's going to attract loyal customers for you All these things will contribute to a healthy business plan and Rebust marketing strategy all these things are so very important now while market research involves Analyzing analytics data all that kind of stuff. It's really more simply tracking numbers Like tracking volume or what customers purchase a market research goes one step further by attempting to uncover why? Okay, what is the why behind the numbers? We want to understand and we want our customers connected with us on a basic level. That's so it's so important So when should you actually do market research? The short answer to this question is always okay You got always do it because markets and customers are always changing things happen, right? It's important that you stay informed with what all these changes are And it truly really market research is time-consuming and a resource intensive So you're going to want to be a strategic plan or when you do this and conduct your research You don't waste your time right your time's important So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give you the four times that you should definitely Complete market research. Okay, so let's run through this real quick Before you launch a new business venture guys, you've got to do market research This initial market research is important before making any investments in the new business or venture It's going to help you find compelling products Marketing efforts pricing structures all that stuff. So before you launch a new business you go into new market research Before you enter into a different market So if you're going to enter into a different market, it's really critical that you understand your potential customers in your new markets What you want to look at is the emerging trends economic shifts cultural difference and values From place to place Market research can help you avoid a lot of lost money. Okay by putting money in the wrong thing If you don't do the market research When you enter that new market, you could kind of get screwed. Okay, so you want to make sure you do that The next time you should do it is when you're launching a new product or service or thinking about developing a new product or service As your company grows you're likely to roll out new products and or services And you're going to want to understand the market conditions before making any big moves into that market Okay, you got to know what's going on After any of those things I've said, okay after launching a new business product entering new markets Releasing new products of services making plans to conduct follow-up Research that's another good time to do market research after you've started all those things to see what's going on Let me get a sip here if you don't mind Mmm. It's good to be a TV a TV here in Texas. Oh my gosh, not to get off subject But man, do they do their market research We were there yesterday and they had these big kettles outside and they were boiling crawfish You could buy crawfish for $7 and 97 cents a pound and people were going this one guy told me He bought 40 pounds of crawfish last weekend from but it's such a great deal Unfortunately, H.E.B. does their research. They know what their customers want and they didn't just have crawfish. They had shrimp They had potatoes they had sausage all these different things that you'd want to have for crawfish boil And oh my god, if you had to do it at home, it'd be a pain in the butt But you just go up there and order it and boom you've got your food pretty good deal That's a company that does market research. Trust me So what are the different types of market research when you're ready to do this market research? You got to start considering what you're going to be looking for, you know Are you trying to understand your competitors? Is that another thing you want to do? Do you want to make a better market for your products? Do you want to make better products? Are you looking to address a customer pain point? What are you doing? Okay? To get the answers you're looking for there's two main types of market research We're going to talk about today now the first one is Primary market research. That's what's called the first one right primary market research is completed in house Okay, this is something you guys do through your own efforts conducting primary research Allows you to change your research To match your specific products and services It also gives you the highest level of control over your research quality because you're the one doing it Okay, so primary research methods could include I don't know interviews of your customers. Maybe you want to do focus groups Maybe buyers personas research. Maybe marketing segmentation research Maybe observation based on in-person observation videos. I don't know case studies blogs that type of thing so From these research methods, you can collect two different types of data. The first one is Qualitative okay qualitative data that isn't conducted or counted or measured including people's preferences dislikes emotional responses interviews and discussion groups typically produce a qualitative data set, okay? You likely wouldn't use an algorithm or equation to draw conclusions from this kind of data But it's very useful Okay, it helps you know a whole lot and then the next one is quantitative Quantitative is data that's generated from numbers. It includes things like page likes. I don't know survey results Email opens social media follows With that kind of data you can produce charts and graphs and you can look at that make decisions based on what those charts and graphs look like The next kind Of market research is called secondary market research secondary market research is conducted by someone else Okay, not you not in-house because the data is already available It's typically more cost effective and less time and resource consuming than that in-house or primary market research Um, there are some secondary sources So let's look at those sources because you probably already have some of them the first one probably would be in our industry statistics Um information and data on the entire industry as opposed to single companies So um, you could use things like statistic. You could use pew you could use garter You could use forest or all of those have industry statistics You could use your own company reports reports Created by companies about their own businesses or your own company websites investor relation websites yahoo google finance all these things are very very useful um Next thing up white papers authoritative market analysis written by third parties about a specific topic Related to a given industry so this could be trade magazines. It could be market research companies Any of those things are very useful and also don't forget government data There's a lot of government data out there information and data collected by the u.s Government and shared with the general public. So, you know, there's different departments the u.s Securities and exchange commission the census data bureau of labor statistics all have data on us So with secondary resources that know how to do proper market research, you'll usually receive a Macro level view of your industry and insights. So it's not going to be your exact customers But similar customers out there Just be sure that the data and insights are valid accurate and reliable Okay, so be rarely careful because a lot of people have to say they're going to sell you stuff And you got to make sure it's really worth it Let me get a sip here. Don't forget put those comments in the chat section Don't forget to comment in the comment section if this is not live to you All right, let's take a closer look at some of the popular research methods Now that we've really looked at the different kinds of market research I want to kind of look a little bit closer at some of the research methods used to gather this data Different methods produce different results. Obviously. So before you Think about things and begin things you want to look at the type of information you're seeking. So One of them is interviews Interviews really do allow you to have this open discussion with people from your own target audience They can be free flowing They can be unstructured They can be structured detailed if you want while interviews are often recorded Recording can influence people's answers. So think about that if you're going to record it They may act a little bit differently Before interviews you want to develop a list of questions. You want to be prepared I see so many people go into these interviews They don't even know what they're going to ask the people have the same set of questions for everybody So you can get different takes on it. What kind of information do you need? There's four different areas to consider Psychographics brand awareness brand preferences and pricing Customer goals customer pain points all those things are things that you can look at And then we can use those into your interviews also the focus groups You can gather up people up to, you know, I know five or ten people Represent your target audience and these individuals can share their thoughts about aspects of your business sessions You can do these things online now. You don't have to bring them into a room and set them down When you review the data, you're going to want to look for Similar reactions. Okay, are some of these people acting the same about this stuff? What's confusion? What's frustrating? What do they like what makes them happy? Repeated words of phrases. Okay, are they starting to say the same keywords? Things like quotes that capture the essence of the group's feelings reactions opinions inconsistent reactions Or outlying opinions that you didn't expect or those pop it up Collect that data in a spreadsheet so you can organize and categorize it later And you can do a little bit deeper analysis if you want You can also do secondary market research. We talked about that And you can use the pew research. You can use garter You can use all these different forester all these companies have research already You can also do Observation based research Which is really involves watching people use your product Your target audience how they interact with your product And and you can see that also like I use car train I have courses in there and I can see how they interact how far into the course do they get How much of a video do they watch? What do they do after they watch that video? All those things are super important You might initiate participants in your office to observe and navigate through all the website You can look at heat maps to see how they're you know working on your website Where they go into your website You can also do market segmentation and demographics Market segmentation is the process of breaking your audience into different groups or demographic Information such as age or gender location any of those things Could matter or you know customers who bought from you before new customers. Those are all different segmentations that you could do You could also use something like sem rush Market Explorer, they have a little tool in there that you could use to unveil demographics to any market audience The report depicts the breakdown of men and women their ages for domains in the same market So you could do that And it guys like I say if you got questions on this don't forget to put those in the chat section Don't miss your opportunity to ask questions Next thing you can do is competitive analysis Competitive analysis is the process of taking a really kind of deep dive in your competitors product services Promotions places all the things that they're doing what kind of ads are they running If you analyze your competition, you can avoid their mistakes. Okay, so look at what they do You don't want to copy everything Some of them could be mistakes if they ran an ad for a week and a half and they never ran it again You will know that that ad didn't work, but if they're running something for six months, you'll know it probably does work So you want to look at that You can analyze your competitors and you can avoid these mistakes And you can replicate their successes and stay on the cutting edge of your industry You know, they're they're developing market research for you, too Surveys I like surveys a lot surveys allow you to connect with your audience They can you can receive, you know, direct feedback you can direct Stuff online. You can reach a large number of participants And let them respond quickly by doing these surveys you can send them out to your list Another set, please Okay, next up Sites like SurveyMonkey, Google Forms, all their Google Forms is free if they provide you with survey templates Distribution tools Distribution options Display options all kinds of different things and you can use a lot of this stuff for free And then some of the paid tools have it too SEMrush has a tool like that Um, make sure you choose the right market method. Okay The market method that you choose will depend on what you're trying to understand about your market Do you want to know what your customers want or need? Are you trying to track? Industry trends, are you trying to figure out how to improve your marketing? Are you trying to see what ads to run? You can look at all of that at SEMrush tool they have in there. It's called. Let's see what market What research market should I choose and that would be in that SEM tool You can also do a step by step market research guide with example tools. Okay You can collect data there. You can analyze data. You can do all kinds of different things So these are some of the ways you can go about getting this market research guys And it's so very important and it's crucial to your business because if you don't do that You don't know what's going on and I think a lot of people do it initially You know initially they'll say, okay, what's selling what's going on and then their business gets going and the most dangerous thing in a business And I know what's happened to me too is success When you're starting to be successful in your business and you're starting to make a lot of money and a lot of money Is coming in it's really easy to get lazy. It's really easy not to stay on top of trends It's really easy not to try new things when the things you have are working And why should you try new things when the things you have are working because maybe they could work better You know, maybe you need to start split testing those ads that are really producing for you Maybe you need to change up your emails a little bit And I know a lot of you don't want to do that because you say well jr. I'm making money I'm doing well I'm making all this money and I don't want to change. I don't want to do new things because it may mess it up You could always go back to what you were doing. I mean, that's certainly always possible to do that But you don't want to just kind of rest on your laurels. I see that happen a lot I do see a question just popped up there. How often you research the competition for your company, you know Gosh paul. I would say probably every day Every day, I'll run in there and I'll say what ads is, you know, some of these companies running What are they putting on their website? Maybe not every single day, but I would say a good four or five days a week I'm looking at my competition. I'm looking at what they're doing. I'm looking at what they're saying I'm looking at what they're taking down what they're leaving up You know, you could go into facebook and you can click on anybody's page that is Running ads you can see all the ads they've got running and how long they've been running them That how long they've been running them thing is really important because If they've been running them for a year Obviously, it's working guys So if you want to start off and do some ads that you know, we're going to work Just go in there and look at those ads There's also a lot of tools out there that you can use to look at youtube ads You can see who's running youtube ads.  It's a really good question. How often do you do it? And you really need to do it all the time. That's something that I really do all the time I stay on top that I stay on top of pricing I think pricing is very important. We're getting ready to increase some of the prices. We have to Beef has gone up beef has gotten really expensive guys And if you don't know me and you're new here I own a survival food company and we do canned meats And I will tell you your beef prices are going to go up They're going to go up because ours just did and we're kind of like a leading indicator But it's going to be hitting your supermarkets. It's going to be hitting your stores So run over to Costco buy what you can now freeze it. I've already done it Because you know, I don't my processing. I don't have stakes and all that kind of stuff So, you know, I've got to go buy states just like the rest of you guys Paul says here when doing a survey, what do you feel is a good link in number of questions? Man, that's a great question Paul Sometimes people bombard people with surveys Well, I've seen surveys that either there's two things that are wrong with surveys The first one is that they don't tell them how long it is Okay, like how many people are going to want to start a survey if they don't have any questions are there? I think it's real important to say answer these three simple questions or these two questions And you say well jr. I've got 10 questions. Okay, well then break it into three or four surveys Okay, do it that way just send out three questions at a time You'll get a much higher response rate if you do that So that's the first thing and then the second thing is having a survey that's just way too long And I kind of address that just now, but if you have a survey that's got you know over 10 questions It's too long.  You just can't do it beef prices Far outpaced chicken prices they do fall and I have not seen chicken go up much It's going up some okay, and we absorb a lot of the increases at our survival food company We just don't pass it on but I've had three price increases In the past few months and I've got to now I've got to increase it and it's a substantial increase It's one of the biggest increases I've done in a long time It's double digits for me, you know and for normally I do like three or four dollars five dollars But this is double digits. It's a big deal Guys if you haven't bought your beef go buy your beef go buy your beef now because you're going to be shocked As to what's going to happen and I and I got to imagine but the events in the world that can only get worse And we see stuff escalating over in europe right now And it's just it's not pretty every day And I've got to admit that really weighs on me seeing what's going on over there And I wish we would do more like that can I'm not going to get into politics, but I wish we would do more I think those people need a lot more help than what we're giving them And I know we've done a lot and that's cool, and I'm not going to get on the politics But you know obviously the entire world almost is against this situation So anyway, I will I won't go at all on a tangent on that but Guys this market research thing is so very very important If you're not doing it, you need to get on board. You need to do it now I've seen way too many people start a business online And I'll give you an example when I started online I didn't do and this is this is the thing I want to bring out do complete market research do complete market research When I started online, I sold cell phone cases and I did initial market research My initial market research was I went to ebay and I looked at what was selling a lot Okay, and what was selling a lot at the time the cell phone cases So I got into that business, but that was a huge mistake It was a mistake for many many reasons I didn't do complete Market research all I did was numbers and sales But there was more to this equation The other part of the equation was profitability They were not profitable. I mean you could make 20 or 30 cents on selling a cell phone case And when you had to package it and put a label on it and ship it out It wasn't worth your time. Okay, so I lost a lot of money doing that And secondly, I didn't look at how much competition there was There was a ton of competition for that product and thirdly. I didn't look at the fact that people Kept switching their phones. So you'd have to have a lot of inventory So there was a lot of market research that I missed Now here's the truth I still did okay I did okay because I made all these mistakes and I could see the mistakes So the next product I went to I knew what to look for. I knew what to do I knew to look for profit margins I knew to look for do people switch will they keep buying this product These products are going to be good in the market cell phone cases aren't after you know a few months They're not as good in the market because people buy what they're going to buy then they switch their cell phone So that wasn't as good Get a couple of these questions back up here. There was an author who wrote a book or surveys His studies showed that you need to ask the right questions That seems like a no-brainer right that seems like a no-brainer, but it's not Asking the right questions really matters If you're not asking the right questions, your data is just going to be useless So I think that's a really good point Paul. Thank you for bringing that up He also says do you think more products will be Moving back to the usa to have better supply chain. Absolutely. I'm already seeing it happen. Absolutely And americans have already said they would rather pay a little bit more to have a product that supports the us I mean, I think everybody's on board with yeah, we'll pay more for gas. We don't want to buy Soviet gas we don't want to do that anymore, you know, we're over that I think a lot of countries are moving away from that And this is going to have long-term far-reaching effects on us And I got to be honest with you my wife and I kind of look at the gas prices And since we don't drive much You know, we we work from home primarily. I have an office in round rock, which is 20 some odd miles from my house I don't go to my office that much It doesn't affect our lives and in all fairness if it goes up a dollar or two We figure just going to cost us maybe $15 a month that is not going to break the bank for us However, there are a lot of people out there that it really does affect You know, if you're an uber driver and gas goes up a dollar or two. That's a huge increase Right that really bites into what you do if you're any kind of delivery anything If you're if you run a service company where you have trucks going out working on air conditioners or lawn services Or whatever it is that you got people driving all over town in a bunch of vehicles. That's a huge increase Okay, it matters. So depending on What your situation is will depend upon if you know, it's really going to affect you Okay, so I try to be sensitive to the fact that even though it doesn't affect me that much It does affect a lot of people When you started out how much research went into Packing and shipping not a lot not a lot and I'll tell you the reason it didn't go into that And I'm talking about my cell phone cases And then I'll move on to my survival food products the cell phone cases were easy Okay, you could slip them into a little padded envelope boom. They went away the meat The canned meats that we do now huge amount of Research went into that But it was indirect research and here's what I mean by that We started off putting our stuff in a box and just shipping it out and damages were through the roof cans were dented It was terrible Then we started putting that box inside of another box with crushed up paper all around it And I still got a lot of dents. It didn't work out Then we started putting that box inside of a bigger box with peanuts those little peanut things and the thing that drops out All the peanuts and I was packing those myself And then we moved to a third party logistics And we we we have custom phone now that sets around the sides of the box and the top of the bottom And we have almost zero damage So I would say it was indirect research. I mean I tried to find stuff in the market that worked for us But I was not very successful at finding stuff. So it was all a matter of Trial and error. What would work? What would protect those cans? Because damage was our biggest problem. We almost never have a return. I can't think of a return we've had Oh gosh in the past three or four years I mean, I know that's huge and we do millions and millions of dollars worth of business So we don't have returns unless it's a damaged can And we don't even have people return those we just say hey, we'll we'll fix it send us a picture of the problem The dinner can or whatever and we'll just send you out a new one if you can keep the product So we pretty much fixed that problem. I think I think we pretty much fixed that problem Guys, if you have any other questions about this market research, feel free to put it in that chat section What I've noticed about these lives is when I start out There's few people and then there's more and there's more and there's more and there's more And I'm toying around with doing longer Lives, I know a lot of my friends are doing 45 minute lives hour long lives I have one friend that does a two or three hour live. I don't know how he does that But he does do it If you're interested in doing one of these longer lives Put that in the chat section put in the comment section. Let me know send me a message And then I can pick a date and time that's going to work for people Obviously, it's not going to be at 10 o'clock on a monday morning because most people can't come to that Because they actually have jobs Okay, so they're not going to be able to do that But if you want something like that a weekend or an evening Where we do a long exchange of questions and answers And I can actually list a whole bunch of subjects That we could talk about I'll be happy to do that. I'll be happy to invest the time My goal is to really help you guys out And get you the information you need Um At least with gas there aren't lines like the gas shortage of 1974.  Let's see 74 Uh, yeah, I was 15 years old So I had a motorcycle at that time. I lived in Memphis, Tennessee And you can get a motorcycle license at 15. So that's what I did Um, but yeah, there were long lines back then. It was a whole different deal back then And it was really that was a shortage Of um control, uh, which I guess it is now too, right? It's a shortage of control It's like they're controlling the supply out there and you know, some countries are using that to their advantage Um, so yeah, it's not as bad as then but you know, it's it's a problem It's a problem and it's not a bigger problem For me now because I have more money that I had when I was a teenager Obviously, you know, I used to scrape together 50 cents to put it in the tank, you know, that was tough times Uh, a matter of fact, um, I used to my best friend then was a steve tormina. Hi steve if you're watching Uh, and uh, I'm going to meet steve in new orleans next month. We're all going to hang out Uh, he's bringing a group of people my wife and I are going. We're going to meet for some meals Um, I still hang out with that guy the same guy that we were trying to scrape together 50 cents for a gallon of gas Which I think that's about what a gallon of gas cost them was 50 cents Um sounds absurd now, doesn't it 50 cents for a gallon of gas and that was a lot of money for us It was like, I don't know how many quarters we could get to go somewhere And going somewhere was not a decision of if we wanted to go or where we wanted to go It was if we had enough gas to go because we were that broke So market research, okay, what is the pain points and your customers? That's what all this training was about today. If you have any more questions on this Especially if you're not watching this live, please feel free to put it in the comment section I have some great supporters out there. Paul, you're one of them. Obviously Um, we have a lot more of them out there that actually ask a lot of questions Will send me messages on youtube. I love getting those messages on youtube guys I love going through there and seeing what you guys had to say And then sometimes I just get kind messages where somebody says thanks That's very nice to get so if you're out there, you like this type of content. Give me a thanks Let me know what you like. Let me know what you didn't like Let me know what you want more of and I'll be happy to provide that to you. That's my job I'm going to run now. I've got a little doctor's appointment today. I'm going to meet a new doc Which is always fun, right? Always fun to meet a new doctor But since I've moved to Texas I had to get a whole new group of doctors and all this and not that there's anything wrong with me But you know you get maintenance when you get older you got maintenance certain things you just got to have done So that's what I got to do Guys, I really appreciate every one of you guys. I really do you're awesome You know you support my channel You subscribe and if you haven't make sure you do subscribe Don't forget to ring the bell turn all bell notifications to your notified each and every time I go live or if I upload a video I will be live again on Wednesday in case you're wondering and then either friday or saturday I'm still gathering data. I'm still doing surveys to see which day you want This past weekend. I was live on a saturday. I didn't do friday. So let me know Let me know which one you want friday or saturday I'm still getting responses, but I don't have enough to make a decision on that yet So I'm still kind of vacillating which day is going to be better. Um Let's see here got another comment just popped up got some smiling faces Jump journal and college love. I like that. I like that. I gotta check out. Do you have a channel jump journal? If you have a channel, I want to write over there. Check it out. Maybe I'll tell everybody to subscribe to it And paul, let me know how your stuff's coming. I haven't I haven't seen anything lately I know you had made some stuff. You sent me some stuff and I greatly appreciate it And I think we sent you out some canned meats at one point Um, so, you know, this is an exchange guys this channel is an exchange of ideas and friendships and you know We try to keep all that stuff going. Um, thank you so much. Uh, I uh, really appreciate it Jump journal and college love. Yes, you do have a channel. Okay guys check out jump journal and college love jump journal and college love Um, I think you're new here. I haven't seen you here before make sure you subscribe and make sure you ring the bell Should I ring the bell again? Bring the bell my wife hates the bell. She hates the bell She just thinks it's just really great rates on her nerves, but I like the bell So the bell stays you guys said you like the bells so the bell is going to stay And it's a little reminder. It's a little reminder here. Okay A little reminder of stuff that you're supposed to do. I'm going to get out of here. I ran over by four minutes I'm so sorry about that but that's okay Let me know if you want that long format a question Q&A and maybe I'll set that up too in the evening or weekend when it's convenient for you guys Thank you so much for listening. I'm going to get out there see my new doc today and get some work done I appreciate each and every one of you you guys have a great day. Love you talk to you later Trying to figure out how to stop this


From Cambridge, Massachusetts, it's theCUBE, covering MIT Chief Data Officer and Information Quality Symposium 2019, brought to you by SiliconANGLE Media. Welcome back to Cambridge, Massachusetts, everybody. You're watching theCUBE, the leader in live tech coverage, and we are covering the MIT CDO conference, MIT CDO IQ. My name is Dave Vellante, and I'm here with my co-host, Paul Gillan. Mike Stonebreaker is here. A legend, founder, CTO of Tamer, as well as many other companies, inventor. Michael, thanks for coming back into theCUBE. Good to see you again. Nice to be here. So this is kind of a repeat pattern for all of us. We kind of gather here in August at the CDO conference. You're always a highlight of the show. You gave a talk this week on the top 10 big data mistakes.  So I happen to like it. You know, I'm sad that it's out of vogue already, but people associate it with a dupe. A dupe is kind of waning, but regardless. So welcome, how'd the talk go? What were you talking about? So I talked to a lot of people who were doing analytics, who were doing operational data at scale. And they always make, or most of them make, a collection of bad mistakes. And so the talk was a litany of the blunders that I've seen people make. And so the audience could relate to the blunders, but most of the enterprises represented make a bunch of the blunders. So I think one blunder is not planning on moving most everything to the cloud. So that's interesting, because a lot of people would love to debate that. And I would imagine you probably could have done this 10 years ago, and a lot of the blunders would be the same, but that's one that wouldn't have been there. But so I tend to agree. I was one of the two hands that went up this morning in Gokul's talk when he asked, is the cloud cheaper? For us it is anyway. But so why should everybody move everything to the cloud? Aren't there laws of physics, laws of economics, laws of the land that suggest maybe you shouldn't? Well, I guess two things and then a comment. First thing is James Hamilton, who's a techie's techie works for Amazon. Yeah, we know James. So he claims that he can stand up a server for 25% of your cost. And I have no reason to disbelieve him. That number has been pretty constant for a few years. So his cost is a quarter of your cost. Sooner or later prices are going to reflect costs as there's a race to the bottom of cloud servers, so. So can I just stop you there for a second, because there's some other data on that. All you have to do is look at AWS's operating margin and you'll see how profitable they are. They have software like economics now with deploying servers. So sorry to interrupt, but so carry on. So anyway, sooner or later they're going to have, they're going to be wildly cheaper than you are. The second vignette is from Dave DeWitt, who's database wizard. And here's the current technology that Microsoft Azure is using as of 18 months ago. It's shipping containers in parking lots, chilled water in, power in, internet in, otherwise sealed. Roof and walls optional. So if you're doing raised flooring in Cambridge versus I'm doing shipping containers in the Columbia River Valley, who's going to be a lot cheaper? And so the economies of scale mean that the big cloud guys are building data centers as fast as they can using the cheapest technology around. You put up a data center every 10 years and you do it on raised flooring in Cambridge. So sooner or later the cloud guys are going to be a lot cheaper. And the only thing that isn't going to, the only thing that will change that equation is for example, you know, my lab is up the street in the Frank Gehry building. And we have an IT department who runs servers, you know, in Cambridge. And they claim they're cheaper than the cloud. And they don't pay rent for square footage and they don't pay for electricity. So yeah, so I think externalities, if there are no externalities, the cloud is assuredly going to be cheaper. And then the other thing is that most everybody that I talked to, including me, has very skewed resource demands. So in the cloud, I need three servers except for the last day of the month. And the last day of the month I need 20 servers. I just do it. If I'm doing on-prem, I've got a provision for peak load. And so again, I'm just way more expensive. So I think sooner or later these combinations of effects is going to send everybody to the cloud for most everything. And my point about the operating margins is the difference between price and cost. I think James Hamilton's right on it. If you look at their actual cost of deploying, it's even lower. Now they price where the market allows them to. They're growing at 40 plus percent a year and they're a 35, 40 billion dollar run rate company. Sooner or later it's going to be a race to the bottom. Yeah, right. And the only guys are going to win who have the best cost structure. Couple other highlights from your talk? Sure, I think the second thing I'd like to stress is that machine learning is going to be a game changer for essentially everybody. And not only is it going to be autonomous vehicles, it's going to be automatic checkout, it's going to be drone delivery of most everything. And so you can either, and it's going to affect essentially everybody. I could sort of say categorically, any job that is easy to understand is going to get automated. And I think that's, it's going to be majorly impactful to most everybody. So if you're an enterprise, you have two choices. You can be a disruptor or you can be a disruptee. And so you can either be a taxi company or you can be Uber. And it's going to be AI machine learning that's going to be determined which side of that equation you're on. And so I was, a big blunder that I see is people not taking ML incredibly seriously. Do you see that in fact? Everyone I talked to seems to be bought in that this is a, you've got to get on the bandwagon. Yeah, I'm just pointing out the obvious. Yeah, yeah. I think, but one that's not quite so obvious is a lot of people I talk to say, I'm on top of data science. I've hired a group of 10 data scientists and they're doing great. And when I talked, one vignette that's kind of fun is, I talked to a data scientist from iRobot, which is the guys that have the vacuum cleaner that runs around your living room. So she said, I spend 90% of my time locating the data I want to analyze, getting my hands on it and cleaning it, leaving me 10% to do the data science job for which I was hired. Of the 10%, I spend 90% fixing the data cleaning errors in my data so that my models work. So she spends 99% of her time on what you'd call data preparation, 1% of her time doing the job for which she was hired. So data science is not about data science. It's about data integration, data cleaning, data discovery. Which is your latest venture. So Tamer does that sort of stuff. And so that's the real data science problem. And a lot of people don't realize that yet. And they will. I want to ask you, because you've been involved in this, by my count in starting up, at least a dozen companies. Nine. Nine? Okay. That's still a lot. You must not overstate it now, Paul. You estimate it high, Paul. How do you decide what challenge to move on? Because they're really not, you're not solving the same problems. You're moving on to new problems.  Okay, that's really easy. I'm on the faculty at MIT.  And I'm paid to come up with new ideas. Some of which have commercial value, some of which don't. And the ones that have commercial value, I commercialize. And so it's whatever I'm doing at the time. And it's why all the things I've commercialized are different. So going back to Tamer, data integration platforms. A lot of companies out there claim to do data integration right now. What did you see was the deficit in the market that you could address? Okay, great question. So there's the traditional data integration is extract, transform and load systems and so-called master data management systems brought to you by IBM, Informatica, Taland, that class of folks. So a dirty little secret is that that technology does not scale in the following sense. That it's all, well, ETL doesn't scale for a different reason than MDM. ETL doesn't scale because ETL is based on the premise that somebody really smart comes up with a global data model for all the data sources you wanna put together. You then send a human out to interview each business unit to figure out exactly what data they've got and then how to transform it into the global data model and how to load it into your data warehouse. That's very human intensive and it doesn't scale because it's so human intensive. So I've never talked to a data warehouse operator who says I integrate, well, the average I talk to says they integrate less than 10 data sources. Some people do 20.  So here's the real world problem, which is Toyota Motor Europe wants, right now they have a distributor in Spain, another distributor in France. They have a country by country distributor, sometimes canton by canton distribution. So if you buy a Toyota in Spain and you move to France, Toyota develops amnesia, the French guys know nothing about you. So they've got 250 separate customer databases with 40 million total records in 50 languages. And they are in the process of integrating that into a single customer database so that they can do the customer service we expect when you cross an EU boundary. I've never seen an ETL system capable of dealing with that kind of scale. So ETL doesn't scale to this level of problem. So how do you solve that problem? I'll tell you. They are a tamer customer, I'll tell you all about it. Let me first tell you why MDM doesn't scale. Oh yeah, okay, great. So ETL says I now have all your data in one place in the same format. But now you've got the following problems. You've got to deduplicate it because if I bought a Toyota in Spain I bought another Toyota in France, I'm in both databases. So if you want to avoid double counting customers you've got to dedupe 30 million records. And so MDM says okay, you write some rules. It's a rule based technology. So you write a rule that's, so for example my favorite example of a rule. I don't know if you guys like to do downhill skiing. I love downhill skiing. So ski areas are in all kinds of public databases. You assemble those all together and now you've got to figure out which ones are the same ski area. And they're called by different names and different addresses and so forth. However, if vertical drop from bottom to the top is the same, chances are they're the same ski area. So that's a rule that says how to put data together into clusters and so I now have a cluster for Mount Sonate. So now I have a problem which is one address says something or other, another address says something else. Which one is right or both right? So now you have a goal, what's called the golden record problem to basically decide which data elements among a variety that may be all associated with the same entity are in fact correct. So again, MDM that's a rule based system. So it's a rule based technology and rule systems don't scale. The best example I can give you for why rule systems don't scale is Tamer has another customer, General Electric. Probably heard of them. And GE wanted to do spend analytics. And so they had 20 million spend transactions for the year before last. And spend transaction is I paid $12 to take a cab from here to the airport and I charged it to cost center X, Y, Z. 20 million of those. So GE has a pre-built classification system for spend. So they have parts underneath parts or computers, underneath computers or memory and so forth. So pre-existing classification for spend, they want to simply classify 20 million spend transactions into this pre-existing hierarchy. So the traditional technology is let's write some rules. So GE wrote 500 rules, which is about the most any single human can get their arms around. So that classified 2 million of the 20 million transactions. You've now got 18 to go. And another 500 rules is not gonna give you 2 million more. It's gonna give you love diminishing returns. So you're gonna have to write a huge number of rules and no one can possibly understand them. So the technology simply doesn't scale. So in the case of GE, they had Tamer help them solve this classification problem. Tamer used their 2 million rule-based tagged records as training data. They used an ML model to then work off the training data and classify the remaining 18 million. So the answer is machine learning. If you don't use machine learning, you're absolutely toast. So the answer to MDM, the answer to MDM doesn't scale. You've got to use ML. The answer to ETL doesn't scale. You're putting together disparate records. Again, the answer is ML. So you've got to replace humans by machine learning. And so that seems, at least in this conference, that seems to be resonating, which is people are understanding that at scale traditional data integration technologies just don't work. Well, and you got a great shout out on yesterday from the former GSK. Right, Mark Ramsey. Jay Leader, Mark Ramsey. Exactly. Showed you guys how they sort of solved their problem. He basically laid it out. EDW didn't work, MDM didn't work. All right, I mean, he kicked the can, the top-down data modeling didn't work, kicked the can to governance. That's not going to solve the problem. And, but Tamer did. Yeah, along with some other tooling, obviously. Yeah, of course, of course. The, well, the other thing is no one technology, there's no silver bullet here.  Right. Mark Ramsey is a great example.  And the traditional guys, are we okay? Yeah, we're good. I don't want to ask you a question. I want to be sure we have time. So, I mean, the traditional vendors by and large are 10 years behind the times. And if you want cutting edge stuff, you've got to go to startups. Jump in. I want to jump in. It's a different topic, you in the past were a critic of the NoSQL movement. And NoSQL isn't going away. It seems to be a, it seems to be actually gaining steam right now. What are the flaws in NoSQL? And has your opinion changed at all? No. So, NoSQL originally meant NoSQL, don't use it. Then the marketing message changed to not only SQL. So, SQL's fine, but NoSQL does other stuff. And now it's all SQL, right? And my point of view is now NoSQL means not yet SQL. Because, you know, high level languages, high level data languages are good. Mongo is inventing one, Cassandra is inventing one. Those, unless you squint, look like SQL. And so I think the answer is the NoSQL guys are drifting towards SQL. Meanwhile, JSON is, that's a great idea if you've got your regular data. The SQL guys are saying, sure, let's have JSON as the data type. And I think the only place where there's a fair amount of argument is schema later versus schema first. And I pretty much think schema later is a bad idea because schema later really means you're creating a data swamp. Exactly, yeah. And so if you have salary, so you're storing employees and salaries. So Paul's salary is recorded as dollars per month. Dave's salary is in euros per week with a lunch allowance, mines.  Yeah, no schema on right was convenient. It allowed you to store a lot of data cheaply, but then what? You know, hard to get value out of it, created data swamps.  Yeah, right. Michael, we got to jump, but thank you so much. Sure, that's fine. Coming back to theCUBE, appreciate it. All right, keep it right there, everybody. We'll be back with our next guest right after this short break. You're watching theCUBE from MIT, CDOIQ. Right back.


In the end it's the experience, the experiential side, where real transformation need to happen and can only happen, because we are shaped by our life's experiences all the time. And if we experience traumatic experiences, we are shaped by that. If we experience wonderful, meaningful experiences for us, we are also changed by that. So with WaveBats we took that and we realized that if experience is the foundation for personal change, personal transformation, we can work and we need to work with what we call the masters of experience, the therapists, the artists, the architects, the designers, and unify that and provide the experiences that are healing and are changing. Boom, what's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakyun. We are still at Consciousness Hackings Awaken Future Summit. We are now going to be speaking to Mendel K. Lenn. Hello. Thank you so much for coming on the show. You're welcome. I really appreciate it. I'm very excited to talk to you. Mendel is the founder and CEO of WavePaths. You can find them at WavePaths.net. They merge immersive media with advances in intelligent technologies and psychedelic science to improve global well-being. Alright, who are you? What do you represent? Who am I? Great question. I studied neuroscience with a real interest in psychedelic therapy or more generally speaking more essentially in interest in mental health care and the question, how can we change people? How can we facilitate positive change? And looking at psychotic therapy I realized there's a really interesting new paradigm here that is emerging. So as a neuroscientist I studied that and looking into the way psychedelic therapy is being practiced I realized the important role that music is playing in at Modality. So I studied the interaction between psychedelic therapy or psychedelic drug and psychedelic therapy and music to understand what's going on. And that led me to publish several articles and eventually to found WavePaths as well as a company afterwards. So that's where I'm right now. And have you been in London the whole time doing this? Yeah, I actually moved to London to do that. From where? From Holland. Okay, cool. So then you started studying neuroscience in Holland or in the United Kingdom? I started studying, actually started off as a biologist first then I pivoted to neuroscience in Holland and I did an internship, my final internship in my master's degree in London for eight months. That's where I met Robin Carter Harris and David Knott and that eventually led me to do an RA with them, a research assistantship, a PhD and then stayed on as a postdoc for a while and then I pivoted away from academia eventually as well. So teach us about what the studies were initially in neuroscience. Sure. So we basically did two things I would say. One is looking at the interaction between the drug and the music on the neuronal level. So how do the psychedelic drug interact with the music? What kind of changes in brain activity, brain connectivity and information exchange do we see when they are provided together? And how does that relate to these changes in emotionality or a mental imagery that people report in that interaction? What are the brain mechanisms at play so to speak? But I've always been working on these questions from different angles, different disciplines if you wish. If you look at my bookshelf you see a lot of psychotherapy books for example, that's really where my kind of key interest is. So with these studies we also looked at phenomenology, the richness of the experience in a patient population that was receiving psilocybin to be treated for their depression. And now there's other music players for that and we looked at how the music was experienced and how we may improve the way we work with music to improve the experience of the patients and thereby enhance the therapy outcomes for them as well. This seems so synergistic with what East Forest is doing with his newest album and also what Synthesis is doing with their center. Right, enrollment center. Your research, interesting. So how the neural architecture is impacted by both the use of psilocybin as well as music? Yeah, that's correct. And what were your findings? We looked at mental imagery in the first study and we found that in the interaction between in this case LSD and music we saw an enhanced information flow from an area specialized in personal memories towards the visual cortex. Interesting. You need to understand that brains don't only specialize not only regions that are specialized but these are networks that interact with each other and we found changes in the way that information is being exchanged between those regions and a degree to which it happened correlated with the degree to which people reported more vivid mental images or personal memories even. Then we also looked at the different acoustic properties that make up music, right? Music is not mere sound. Music is structured sound in time. It has tonalities, it has rhythm, it has all sorts of acoustic qualities that change in time. So we looked at these different acoustic properties and we found that under LSD we saw significant changes in language areas interestingly enough enhanced to the timbre or the tone color in the music and the degree to which it happened correlated with emotions associated with peak experience so emotions of wonder and awe for example. So that was quite interesting and made us like typical for science ask many more questions. In the clinical study with the patient population we found an interesting polarity I would say like some people responded really well to the music and some not and there are interesting truths to be found when looking at both stories. So one thing that we found for example is that in the experience of the music some people described that music was able to carry them on this journey inside of themselves they experienced enhanced emotionality and imagery and when they were able to really surrender to that experience they described it as a journey as if they were transported on this adventure of discovery which is in essence the discovery of aspects of oneself it's a journey inside. That also correlated with the attitude of openness to the music and a degree to which people reported a sense of union between themselves and the music or a sense of harmony. Now that was on one side and the other side we had people who described the music as feeling very dissonant and out of tune with their inexperience and these individuals didn't want the music to be there and were rejecting the music. Now people who reported this resonance with the music these were also individuals that reported showed the stories improvements weeks after the stories of corruption and depression afterwards. People who didn't had that experience with the music these were the individuals who didn't show these improvements in their mental health afterwards. The more resonant the experience is with them the decrease in depression of others. Yeah, exactly. Now there's a caveat there because it's a small study just 20 patients we looked at but when I delved into music therapy research I came across something called the isoprincipal and this is a well-established concept in music therapy the isoprincipal means matching your emotional state with music. So having music convey a similar emotional state as you are currently experiencing and using that as a starting point for other therapeutic work with music. And so finding that convergence we made me confident there's something at play here and that's what we're currently expanding on as well. I love it, I love it. Okay, so there's also a specific potentially music therapy that resonates most deeply with each individual that then can be tuned to their life that can then help them get through some of the most difficult moments of their life. And then to be able to assist that music therapy with potentially psychedelics and see how people can transform through those experiences this is your research this is what you care about. Okay, and it's really interesting thinking about all the applications like you listed to take someone that may feel depressed and then have them feel like they're transformed afterward and that they have these deep feelings of unity.  Okay, let's jump into your move to London to pursue wave paths. Okay, so how long ago was this founded? What is wave paths? It was founded about a year ago and the mission of wave paths is to make transformative experiences with music and all the immersive media more widely available. One outcome of the research and the psychotherapy research in general is if you look at how psychotherapy is currently practiced I sometimes conceptualize it as a form of music therapy but it's a drug-enhanced form of music therapy. So then the question is what is so different about the experience of music in that psychedelic state? And could we maybe access that without a drug as well? Not because we don't want psychotherapy to be there but how can we help prepare people for these experiences how can we help people integrate these experiences afterwards and also can we find a way of engaging with ourselves that not always demands us to take these psychedelic compounds? And I believe there's a real opportunity for music to fill that void, this thirst that people have to engage with their inner worlds in meaningful, constructive ways. There's a lot more to say about music but almost everyone has some relationship with music. It's ancient. Music is one of the most ancient human inventions. There's one of the most ancient technologies being invented. Music has come to play many different roles in our society. It can be a social glue, it can be an aid to relax, it can be entertaining, it can be fun, it can be beautiful but something more profound can happen when you listen so deeply to music that in essence you're deeply listening to yourself. We could call this deep listening. So this question that we are asking with WaveBats is can we invite people to listen to music in such a way that their relationship with music becomes so intimate that music can become their friend, a companion, a healer, a therapist that people have access to at any moment in their lives. That is the essence of what we're trying to do. And we are in essence working to develop a new approach to well-being that ignites our innate capacity to heal through music and other intelligent technologies. You mentioned the word transformation, right, and depression. Really important question there is what is transformation in essence like what we're talking about. Transformation doesn't mean per definition that if somebody is depressed that that will be transformed into some beautiful, wonderful peak experience that maybe some really painful emotions and memories that need to be processed first. Often if not always healing involves reconnecting these parts of ourselves that we don't really wish to be connected with because they can be frightening or overwhelming or painful but that's a really real healing happens. So it's not that in psychotherapy and in WaveBats we only play music that has these wonderful, positive emotional soundscapes to it. Sometimes the work needs to happen by actually allowing difficult emotions to surface. Okay, so I love the music is such an ancient technology and the way that it can be fully actualized and its fullest potential to be a friend, healer, all these words that he used with humans is so beautiful and it seems like we're only still scratching the surface with music's potential, ambisonics, all this crazy stuff that's coming. Okay, so drop us into what this is like right now because it's kind of like the commercialized application of your research or also the democratized application of your research. So am I coming in physically to the WavePaths center? Am I able to just make a download and play at home? Yeah, how does it work? We do both. We develop mobile technologies, mobile tools that allow this approach to be widely available but there's a real challenge with trying to encapsulate this process into an app. For example, you do not have control over the ritual, the attention that the process really deserves and needs for those effects to take place. Most people don't have a good enough sound system at home as well. So all of these things we have much more control over when we have a physical space. On top of that, I believe that the current mental health crisis we are witnessing won't be solved by another digital technology. The solution will be found within human communities coming together in real lived experiences. So what we aim to do with our WavePath spaces is offer our technology which is an adaptive generative music system. So it's music that is generating music through a computational system adapted to where you are in this moment emotionally and with your therapeutic intentions. So the music meets you where you are and this is based on what we just described with resonance. We try to enhance this sense of resonance with the music. How do you know where the person is and how to tune the music? Mental input by a user at this situation and on top of that you work with some biosensors. So we combine both to provide this achievement with the music. So do they wear EEG or what do they do? We have a multimodal vision there. At this moment, what we did in our space, we worked with a radar sensor built in a wall. You don't even see it. It emits high frequency sound and it's able to track movement in a micro millimeter range and we trained it to measure breathing and body movement. And then what it does in this space, you mentioned ambisonics, we implement a sound system called an ELISA elacoustics sound system. 22 speakers, 8 rings on ear's height, 8 rings above you and 4 speakers on the ceiling itself. And the music is generated in response to your biophysiology and the spatialization of the music is informed by your breathing pattern, the depth of your breath, the frequency of your breath. So the space that free-breathes with you with the music and it's done in a subtle way. We don't want it to be gimmicky but all of these are experiments in our effort to enhance this degree of resonance and the immersive sound technology allows you to forget that you're in a space. You lie on a chair, you have an eye mask and the only thing that's there is your mind and the music and all the interactions between your mind and the music that occurs in there. So I'm in a chair, I have the eye mask on and you have a somewhat of an ambisonic system. It's a lot of speakers and it's 360. It's not ambisonic, it's close. It's a similar 3D technology. It's a 3D technology with sound and then you have this radar technology that's able to add a millimeter. Micro millimeter. Add a micromilometer? Wow, okay. Be able to sense my heart, my chest moving, my breathing. And so then if my breathing is maybe shallowing or it's deepening, whichever, you're changing the music, adapting it to my breath and how I'm kind of replying to it. And you're aiming to make these experiences as healing and transformative for people as possible. And right now they have to come in. Is there also a visual? No, there's not, because they're... Well, there is. Yeah, that's a good question. So what I want to emphasize is that this experience, this introspective experience of the music with this technology is embedded within a human relationship and all of that is embedded within a ritual. So the current space that we have in London before you enter this music space, you enter what we call the light space. And it's literally a space to be. Nothing that distracts you. You're just present in this world of color, basically. And you meet a guide, who is a trained psychotherapist and you already are invited beforehand to be able to reflect on your intention and experience. And you have certain tools that allow you to figure out what's present, what's alive in you in this moment and how you would want to work with that.  Then you go to the music space, the second room. The guide will do an induction, a meditation. It helps you to be and feel more safe and open to the music.  Afterwards you return to the light space, you are spending another 20 minutes or so with your guide integrating and processing the experience before you then go home again. Wonderful, yeah. You have the whole pre and post. Yeah, well done as well. Okay, so in terms of the wave paths being able to get out as a digital download, yes, you said that it's difficult because how do you know about how the person feels and how do you make sure that they have the adequate sound system that's high quality. So where are you guys at with taking it to the democratized? Yeah, we are kind of reconsidering our strategy with that a lot at the moment. Because from a business perspective, of course this app could be an easy way to scale up our business relatively quickly. Also from a therapeutic standpoint, it could be a way to democratize this experience more widely. What we did for now is we are only releasing the app that we have right now to people who have visited our space. So it's almost like an initiation. You have the space experience, those guests get the app afterwards to continue their practice at home. But you are considering to release a version of this app by the end of the year. That's what we're currently working on. And that app will also have these different contexts in which you can engage with the music, different types of meditations, different types of inductions, guidelines and ways to process the experience afterwards as well. You could potentially get quite good at targeting specific ailments, emotional ailments. That could be interesting. Yeah, that's the vision. We right now focus on well-being as a broad construct and we don't focus right now on severe mental health conditions. Also because we don't want to make any medical claims when we don't really have them. This is an experimental technology, right? But we have that ambition for sure. And we partner and we offer our technologies to institutions. For example, people doing psychotic therapy research in Holland with MDMA at the moment. They will have a prototype of our app to support our patients going through their therapy sessions treating severe PTSD with MDMA. Excellent. So you are already doing the partnerships with maps and that type of... Wonderful, wonderful. And then... Okay, so let's go to the... Again to what could potentially come from this. You're looking at all of the different styles of exploration with transformation of well-being. There's potential also work with some neurodegeneration that you could offset maybe. There's also work with neuro-augmentation.  Similar to what we're doing with East Forest here in the mornings.  So what about on the augmenting side and also on the degeneration side? Have you had thoughts about that? Yeah, I thought thoughts about that. Yes, there's some really fascinating research out there that shows that certain aspects of sound can be useful for treating Parkinson's symptoms, for example. And dementia, people with dementia respond really powerful to music and it's becoming more and more recognized as a tool to support these individuals. And the list goes on. I am... We are with wavepads not per definition interested in sound itself, but more in music. And that's because with music you have the psychedelic grow richness that is essential for psychotherapeutic work. So we're not per definition interested in sound therapy. We actually don't like that term, although some journalists started to use it to describe what we do because the healing doesn't happen in the sound. It happens in your engagement, your conscious engagement with the experience that is unfolding in the dynamic process. So we're very much inspired by psychotherapeutic concepts here where it is, you don't lie there and have a passive experience of sound that does some healing, although some of that may be true. We believe that much more interesting and important work can be done in that richness of the mind that you can work with in these experiences. Beautiful. It's the dynamical interplay between the human and the music therapy that is actually occurring. We think of music as a language, but it's a non-verbal language. It conveys emotions and sensations and images. And it can do so without activating the intellect. In fact, it does so by bypassing the intellect, and that's why I believe it has such therapeutic potential. That's where talk therapy can run against its limitations because you keep engaging with talking and analyzing if you're not carefully contextualizing your problems. And in the end, it's the experience, the experiential side where real transformation need to happen and can only happen because we are shaped by our life's experiences all the time. And if we experience traumatic experiences, we are shaped by that. If we experience wonderful, meaningful experiences for us, we are also changed by that. So with WaveBats, we took that and we realized that if experience is the foundation for personal change, personal transformation, we can work and we need to work with what we call the masters of experience, the therapists, the artists, the architects, the designers, and unify that and provide experiences that are healing and are changing. Is there a specific style of music that bypasses this gatekeeper and gets to this subconscious? To the unconscious, is there something specific that does it most effectively? Yeah. Music is... Our emotional response to music is really a combination of innate capacities, innate tendencies to respond to sound and music in certain ways that are based on our evolutionary heritage. And I would argue for a much larger degree, our upbringing of our culture are what I call a musical personality that we acquired in time. So I may burst in tears by this song, but you may not feel anything, right? But then at the same time, there are certain interesting commonalities there as well at play. But in this therapeutic work, that's why we believe that you need to meet the person where he or she is in this moment, and that includes taking into account the musical personality of the individual, not because you want to give the individual an experience that he or she likes. It's not about liking, it's not about pleasure. It's about finding ways to engage the individual. It's working with the ego to some degree as well, rather than trying to fight it. Interesting. So it's a personalized experience based on what both the ancestral lineage of that human, plus what they themselves have absorbed and stimuli throughout their life to gain that personal touch on what they find most profound in the music and then the responsibility on the end is someone like Wave Paths to be able to figure out what that is for that individual. Interesting. So it potentially is some sort of a process, maybe then through the democratization where there could be a feedback mechanism for you to learn about the person's individuality. Oh, that's exactly what we're doing. That's exactly what we're doing. To build a bridge to our research, we had some clues about different categories of therapeutic functions of music, but it's only based on a very limited sample size. So rather than trying to mold people into these different categories, we allow people to score and rate their musical experiences. So in time, we have a fully data-derived bottom-up categorization of these different experiences. And in doing that, we can become more and more precise in actually prescribing music as a medicine to each individual. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yes, yes, very beautiful. Okay, I want to do a couple other thoughts on the way here. What is the percentage of time that you think that there's going to be people that are experiencing Wave Paths without psychedelics versus with psychedelics with psychotherapy? Hmm. Oh, that's an interesting question. It was founded with the idea to support psychotherapy but then realizing the therapeutic potential of music and realizing that there are all of those people out there that don't have access to psychotherapy. We want to offer music as psychotherapy, right? Music as a psychotic experience. Music as a mind-revealing experience. So what I hope is actually that all of that will happen that people who are seeking psychotic medicines either because they're suffering deeply from depression or PTSD or you name it in a clinic or whether people seek these for their own personal development and they have access to these tools to support them in the best ways possible. But at the same time, there is not all about the psychotic drug experience, right? You have, apart from the preparation, you have homework to do afterwards. And like I mentioned earlier on, there is, I feel, when I speak with people, I really avoid their to be filled. How can I work with what happened in this psychotic experience? How can I continue to engage with that? And I think with the approach that we are developing, we are offering a very safe, effective and engaging way to do that through music. In addition to that, I also think that psychotic therapy won't be for everyone and there could be other approaches that are also very powerful but maybe not as disruptive as a psychotic experience can be. And music and our approach and other approaches could play a role in that as well. So my hope is really that both will happen in time. And what's the ideal future where is it ambisonics 360 degrees plus visual, plus the feedback loop to the personalized taste in music and visuals. Is that kind of the ideal future? We will see.  So right now we run four different scientific research projects with our current space, with our approach, including a neuroscience study. And that's our intention, is to keep refining our approach fully empirically, keep challenging our assumptions, and then in time we will find something that really works. With the music and the sound system, that's definitely something we will keep replicating and keep exploring. The role of light is something that we actually just are sure about. It's more of an experiment as well. We are researching the light art that we work with, for example. Optogenetics is a very interesting field. Optogenetics. Neuromodulation through light. Right, but that happens with genetic modifications in animals, right? Optogenetics. Optogenetics is a method where you, to my view, genetically modify a gene, making it responsive to light, and then you flicker light to the nerve cell to make it fire or make a receptor, change its shape, or you name it. And there's potentially some interplay with what? If you remove the eye cover, and then you have the visual stimulation as well, the musical stimulation. Completely, apart from genetic modifications, there's something in light, right? That is, as music, something we respond to very powerfully, absolutely. And that's what we notice in our space. We have this light space, and people respond to it really profoundly. And it's something, again, we don't really understand yet, but it's something we are experimenting. As part of our larger mission to ask ourselves, how can we engage the senses, not only music, but also light and smell and touch? Oh, those are great. Our social interactions to provide a unified framework to facilitate these transformative experiences. Oh, that's excellent. Lavender sprays, and there's so many cool things. Touch, the touch, as through the process as well. That's great, that's great. And then, also, just all the testimonials, all the people afterward that tell you how important it was that they went through your experience and what the transformation that they had was and being able to maybe have some EEG or some sort of a way to have the biosignals captured before and after that type of thing. This has been very interesting. Let's do a couple of quick questions on the way out. Do you think we're in a simulation? Do I think we're in a simulation? My God. It's a field I haven't given, it's an idea I haven't given that much thought to. I know that our serious physics will make an argument for it. Do I feel like I'm in a simulation? I don't, but it could be a very effective simulation. But do I believe we're in a simulation? I don't, but it's an entertaining and interesting philosophical question for sure. And what do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world? What I think is the most beautiful thing in the world. A few things come to mind. Nature or human beings being honest with each other and authentic with each other. Why do you say that? Because that's really beautiful and important and missing a lot in our society at the moment. I think that's where a lot of this thirst for these approaches come from is rather than having created a society where technology is being used to remove suffering and bring us closer together. We have created some kind of mega machine that is there to track our data, tailor advertisements to us, make us more efficient at work, replace ourselves at work more and more. And I think a lot of the fears in society are based on that lack of an increasing sense of disconnection from other people, from meaning, existential meaning, all those things. So it's beautiful when people are able to find that and when you feel that they're being a part of that. Thank you so much for joining us on the show and teaching us about all your work. You're really welcome. Thank you. Huge thank you to everyone for tuning in. We greatly appreciate it. We would love to hear your thoughts in the comments below on the episode. Go and talk more to your friends, your family, your coworkers, people online on social media about this powerful process of music and the transformational potential that it has. Check out WavePaths.net. The link is in the bio below, also the rest of Mendel's links. And go and support Consciousness Hacking. Their links are below support simulation. They're below the organization's entrepreneurs, the artists around the world that you believe in. Support them. And go and build the future, everyone. Manifest your dreams into the world. Thank you so much for tuning in and we will see you soon. Peace.


There's really no safe like simply safe Hey, everyone welcome back to my channel drew here from Lone Fox, I'm going around top Texas And I am bringing you all along with me I have been dreaming of this moment for quite a while now probably for solid two years since purchasing my home I really got invested in antiques. This is a 1929 Spanish dial house So when I purchased this home, I wanted to find pieces that looked like they could have been from that time period or were Authentically from that time period whether they were architectural salvage Furniture decor whatever it was lighting lots of different elements I needed to add to this home and throughout the journey of transforming this space We have been thrifting and ticking flea marketing I share vlogging and going out and shopping all the time with you But today we are heading to round top Texas and if you've never heard of it, let me give you the rundown This is gonna be my first time going to round top. So I absolutely have no idea what to expect I don't know the price points of anything. I don't know if things are more affordable things are more expensive I do know round top has been more popularized over the years But it's definitely an area that I see a lot of my favorite designers going and shopping at which I'm assuming for their Clients or for their websites or projects that they're working on But I'm someone that can absolutely appreciate just unique finds even if I'm not purchasing anything because I'm bringing only a Suitcase with me. So I'm gonna be able to bring maybe a few little trinkety items back or who knows I might even find something that we will be needing to ship back So we shall see packing this afternoon and then heading out tomorrow morning And I want to give a big shout out to today's video sponsor because they have kept my home secure and safe for the past four Years I have been using simply safe if you've never heard of simply safe before and they are really the most modernized User-friendly and design forward home security system. 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We've made it in already kind of swimming over this blue hutch back here Sometimes I hope that maybe I won't like something but I always tend to like everything off the screen table right here So pretty you already have one step away. It's so similar And the little years has the little castle Balls on the ends love love this light here. It is a English Copper hanging lantern and it would have been on like a post looking like it's just like a lamp post light But they converted it into a hanging pendant, but something like this in my stairwell Be so pretty this one's already sold, but I could not even get this home. So This cabinet is so pretty Get these 15th century wallpaper panels They're only oh 18th century, sorry 15k, but they're so so pretty And I'm seeing a bunch of tapestries here you guys It's a good sign. We love a tapestry. So To our next little location. We're gonna check out this entire tent that we are in which is the second one in the big red Barn also look at how cute these little frames are It's like our deco style frames. I love this one It's a little curvy detail And this is me peeking around the corner This next location we are heading into is a bill more antiques Look at this trunk over here. I love That's such a good chair Look at that little table to this one here Amelia tarbet and Maybe some of these other ones. Oh, this is a great easel you guys look at that. Oh That coffee table. Oh, these are some good pine chairs. What's like ours? Look at this tramp art table. Oh My gosh you guys this is like popsicle sticks. These are all little sticks This edge So many pretty things that table is so good on top This wood one. Yes Look at this tent we just found and the owner is missing So we are just in here by ourselves. Look at all of this Danish furniture So beautiful all of these different chairs that they have their sets Look at all of these studio pottery pendants Justin This is all handmade We just said something Looks like this It's a pretty big event here at round top and this is my first time ever going here But there's a ton of people I don't know if you can tell waiting for it to open in about 10 minutes And then I think we're all just gonna run in scream and look for some vintage items We definitely need some coffee first So we're going to Clementine coffee and cream So pretty look at these chairs. Oh, no, you are totally fine. Look how pretty these chairs are 6850 for the pair. This is what I was mentioning when I got those one chairs for a hundred bucks So art. I think clocks are making a Come back grandfather clocks. Give me a tour of this cabinet This arm lost something about it. It's just I love this and the size and the color and how this is darker And also perfect shelving Look at this booth you guys. I have never seen so many unique furniture pieces Just so beautiful look and look at this light This mirror That mirror is so little squiggle at the top this one Italian it is look at this freaking chair Have you ever seen anything like that? Just so the scallop sofa This lamp Are you kidding me? Just look at the back. These green leather chairs are so pretty I love the distressed look and then like the brown leather straps What are the prices on those ones? 25 All of these copper lamps are so beautiful Look at these ones with like the perforated Shade I love these are the brass and copper ones, but this is so so cute Look at these This incredible ceramic artist created these Beautiful ceramic wall hangings. She does these and they're really not even I've seen these For thousands of dollars online, but she They're incredible and the price point of them as well I'll put her name on the screen because I've never seen them in person But they're such cool like organic pieces if you guys are interested. This is nothing I could ever DIY so And then it's Fonterre 1991 Let's do the front A fun shave I saw it in one second and bought it instantly. That's when you know you need it It's cute. I love that I mean This is pretty All right guys, we have made it to enemy home, which is such a beautiful door Round top everything super expensive, but great for inspiration Good morning, everyone It is round top day three and today we are actually in what's known as the fields Which is more so where you kind of have to hunt and dig and everyone kind of has just rows of tents The other events that we went to the first and second day were kind of more curated stores So some of the ones that sell the more expensive pieces that a lot of designers shop for and a lot of really unique vintage Pieces and then we went to Marburger yesterday, which also the vendors are a little bit more pricier here You could find some great deals. So just got here five minutes ago I went ahead into this first one everyone's already in there checking it out Let's see if we can find some cute items, but we don't have too much space left in the suitcase. So let me see It has been a few days actually since I got back from round top of course I have to do a little haul video sharing with you guys what I got But I thought first I would kind of give you a little rundown on my experience how everything went now Justin and I ended up going together and it was so much fun and town of round top truly is such a small town like it is Dead like there's no one there unless you get to the actual kind of like main strip area where all of the antique malls and all The antique like tents and different stores are it is a really cute town though And we ended up staying just at an Airbnb That was about a 20-minute drive over to where you actually shop at and I thought it was so much fun I will say that round top to me like how I've kind of always thought of it as is like a place Where you go to get some great deals. They're definitely are far more Expensive items like antiques that are curated antiques that have been reupholstered or kind of put into like this curated showroom from this brand There's a lot more of that But the actual deals are more so out in what's known as the fields and it's just kind of more of where people have These tents that pop up they come and it kind of is more of a flea market sort of a feel to it Like some of the places I shared like the big red barn and Marburger farm and even the enemy home Those are all more expensive a lot of these vendors are more on the pricier side So it's a great place if you're going to shop or a bunch of clients or if you're looking for a bunch of pieces for your home Or you're moving or you just want inspiration. It is perfect for that We actually ended up purchasing a extra kind of carry-on size bag when we were there So we're able to put some stuff in that and I ended up getting a decent amount of things I got one two three four five six seven eight nine ten got ten things Let me start off with just what's in front of me I finally got a tramp art box and I'll say I actually did get a pretty good deal on this and I noticed that a lot of These you can absolutely bargain. So if you're good at that feel free to I'm not the best at it However, I did get this a little lower than the ticket price was and I love it It's lined with a velvet and with everything I buy I normally have the intention of using it myself And then when I don't ever end up using it That's when it gets put on my shop or added to a vintage drop This could be so cute just even in the living room to store some remotes I shared this in the video and I love this. It's a pewter vase and it's by the designer Leon Fontier 1991 it's signed I've really been into silver right now And it's been such a fun metal and this one just has that really striking appearance to it This one is pewter. So, you know for the price point, I think it was definitely worth it It's a large vessel as well and I got it for a hundred instead of 125 which was pretty good And then it has this little kind of bead droplets of Metal I got a piece of art and I took this out of the frame that it was and it was kind of just in like a Plastic poster frame, but the lady had like a hundred of these and I'm assuming they were just all from the same portfolio from like an Estate sale, but they were pretty good price and I loved the simplicity of this one and it's a good size I liked the patina on the paper and these next items. I'm gonna share with you I actually did a purchasing these within five minutes of walking into the big red barn So it was like my first five minutes at round top I purchased these and in my head I was like, I don't even have room anymore like why did I do this? But I'm so happy I did because I found nothing that compared to these items throughout the entire rest of the trip So the first thing I got were these sconces. They're kind of like a still novo style mid-century Italian brass sconce, but how cute are they with the little scallopy edge on them? The price was just insane too good not to pass up and also since I bundled the three items together from the girl's booth She gave me a better deal. I'm gonna save my favorite for last But I also got this piece of art and I mainly got this for the frame I Adore this frame you guys look at how stunning that is with the kind of texture It's actually carved into the wood itself, but I just love this frame I don't love the art. The art is a little odd. I don't really know what it is You know, but the frame the frame did it for me All right But this is what I mean when I said I filled up all my space in a minute You guys look at this table lamp I got it is beyond beautiful And I bought this within five minutes of walking in so that was a little scary for me It was too good to pass up. I mean the price point was not bad It has this huge glass top on it and I'll pop up the designer on the screen for you It's like a 1940s German lamp and when it's actually lit up the patina on the brass when it's turned on it is such a striking lamp And I just love this mushroom silhouette like I could so see this on the back credenza over here Of how it has gradient texture Everyone was joking that there was mold on the inside of it like when we had it at the Airbnb You know what? I don't mind. I think it's so cute add some texture to it Yeah, even the finial on the top like look how good that brass patina is So pretty and the last two pieces I got are actually mirrors So this first one here is a French bamboo mirror. You can kind of see the bookshelves in the background Oh my gosh, it kind of looks cool This is kind of a faux bamboo style mirror And it's carved out of wood and these are more traditionally a French mirror and the vendor that we got them From she was from Denmark and said that they had traveled to France and got a bunch of them So we ended up purchasing one because I just loved the way that this looked I think it would be a great mirror in a powder bathroom an entryway There's a lot of opportunity with this So I got that one and I did get one more mirror and keep in mind We actually packed these mirrors in between our clothes So this just shows you how good of quality and how much these have what stood over the years This is a 1950s Italian crest mirror with like a rope detailed edge And I have seen these at a store in LA here for thousands every time I see a mirror like this It's at least over a thousand dollars. It's just so gorgeous Even the back kind of shows the age on it and the patina on the brass itself And I love this silhouette especially in my Spanish style home I realized I forgot to share two items these were what I found when we were searching in the fields I only found two things because it was definitely a lot of randomness and I found this little picture here It was 10. I got it for 10. It was marked at 12.  I love the shape of this I think it's great for just like some stems very classic and cute And yeah, so stamped Germany on the bottom and that was everything I ended up purchasing while at round top I truly just went more so to get a feel for everything and the next time I go I would love to have more of like a mission in mind Maybe I have a project I'm working for and I can get some shippers and alignment or something and find some really cool furniture pieces Because there definitely are some unique pieces. There are some good deals if you stumble upon them here and there So I definitely can see myself going around top again for sure. It was super inspiring as well I just saw so many new furniture pieces silhouettes Designers all the vendors everyone I met was just so lovely and just so nice to talk to so the great environment You have the opportunity to check out round top. I definitely suggest it and yes I'll catch you guys all in a new video this Sunday We are getting back into the swing of things here on the channel. It has been a lot with Winston I will say he is a very needy little puppy But he's doing great and says hello, and I'll catch you guys all in my next one. Bye