Hi, welcome. Welcome. My name is Ileana and I'm a librarian at the San Francisco Public Library. Thank you for joining us today. We're so happy that you're here with us to celebrate Filipino American History Month at the library. Throughout the month of October, learn more about the unique history and contributions of this community through interactive workshops, demonstrations, book readings, and more. Check out the dedicated webpage in the chat to see these events and find great books by Filipino and Filipino authors and illustrators. Before we begin, I'd like to offer a land acknowledgement. We are on the unceded ancestral homeland of the Ramaytish Ohlone, who are the original inhabitants of the San Francisco Peninsula and continue to live, work, and play here today. As the indigenous stewards of this land and in accordance with their traditions, the Ramaytish Ohlone have never ceded, lost, nor forgotten their responsibilities as the caretakers of this place, as well as for all peoples who reside in their traditional territory. We wish to pay our respects by acknowledging the ancestors, elders, and relatives of the Ramaytish community and by affirming their sovereign rights as First Peoples. Thank you to the friends of the San Francisco Public Library for their generous support of this entire program series. We would not be able to do this without them. And let me introduce our author. I'm so excited to welcome her here to our virtual stage. Laurel Flores Fantuzo is the author of My Heart Underwater and The First Impulse. She's been named a Philippine National Book Award finalist, a Penn Fusion Emerging Writers Prize finalist, and the recipient of a Carlos Polanca Memorial Award. She's taught writing and literature at the University of Hawaii at Manoa, Yale NUS College in Singapore, and Atenio de Manila University. Welcome, Laurel. Thank you so much to everyone behind the planning and publicity of this event.  And thank you all for attending. I'm really happy to be with you today. I'll share that I am here in Hawaii and I'd like to express my support for the Kanaka Maui people in their continuing fight for sovereignty on their islands. And I'm Laurel. I go by she, they, or shot in Filipino. And I'm a Filipino American writer who grew up in Southern California and lived for many years in the Philippines. So happy Philippine American History Month. I'm going to read to you today from my YA novel, My Heart Underwater. And I'm going to talk a little bit about some ideas on how to write character and what I had in mind when I wrote this character. So you'll get to know a little bit about my protagonist, Cory, and hopefully leave with some ideas on how to make a character of your own. So Cory is in high school in the SoCal suburbs in 2009.  And this section that I'm going to read is from the beginning of the book. It's the second chapter, and it's called Work. I unlock the front door to our town home. I do it quietly, not knowing who's here yet. I sidestep one of the open car board boxes, always partly blocking the entryway, halfway filled with corned beef and clearance clothes from Ross. I tug off my sneakers and slip my feet in the flip-flops. My mom sits at our old wood table, penciling and erasing in a dollar store Sudoku book. She hasn't changed out of her slacks and button-down shirt yet. I wonder if something annoying happened at work. She usually plays Sudoku to relax. Numbers calm her. One of the many ways my mom and I are super different. A classical music station is set low on our old FM radio. Behind her, on the kitchen counter, is a wooden statue of Jesus' head, his suffering eyes looking heavenward toward magnet memorial photographs of my parents' moms. His head is a mess of thorns, but his neck bears the necklace of fresh white flowers my dad places there every week. I can hear my dad too upstairs in their bedroom. He speak in Tagalog and tinny voices respond through his laptop speaker. Near Jesus are piles of my parents' bills and work invoices.  I don't think I'll ever understand exactly what my mom does. Her super brain is an eternal mystery to me. She's the only one in our thousand-square-foot radius who excels at Excel.  Sometimes, they'll buy a 99-cent DVD from the drugstore discount bins, ridiculous action movies, and sci-fi that makes my dad giggle his high-pitched giggle. Buying an old DVD every few weeks is still cheaper than a subscription. At night, I always think about how I can shove that 3.2 grade point average closer to the golden 4.0. It's the least I could do for all my parents' crappy workdays and budgeting on my behalf. But there always seems to be something. That hard unit in chemistry, angle degrees, sentence mapping, the back of Ms. Holden's neck. I'm steeped in shame. I'm sure that somewhere there's a better version of the daughter my parents could have had, a violinist aspiring scientist's freelance model like my cousin Bea, maybe.  Oh, why are you standing there? Come here, go tomkuba. I think she's going to go into the fridge to feed me something, but she looks back down at the grid and sets her pencil to it again, seeing another pattern. Ma, I thought I should show you, I say. She looks up over the rims of her reading glasses, suspicion wrinkling her forehead. In early elementary school, I'd bring home notes about when I wouldn't stop crying over being left out, or when I stomped on boys' toes and made them cry. I haven't brought much home since high school started. Now I hand her the quiz. 100. She stands, startling me. Come, we'll go to In-N-Out. I just wanted to show you, you don't have to take me out. Though I know she loves In-N-Out and uses any small celebration as an excuse to go. You'll get that milkshake, the weird one you like, with all three flavors. That's busy talking to you. Ike, never mind. He has to eat also. Rom, she calls upstairs. He doesn't answer, so we go upstairs. He's sitting at the desk in their bedroom, still in his work polo, covered in splashes of plaster and paint. Usually, Papa's wide brown face splits into a smile as soon as he sees us. But he looks serious and startled when we enter. His eyes dart from us to the screen and back to us, like he's balancing and about to fall if he doesn't watch out. My mom doesn't seem to notice. Luko, your daughter got 100 on a test. It's just a quiz, I mumble. But finally, my dad smiles. His eyes jitter back toward the screen. I see the dark-haired guy on screen, pixelated, wearing glasses. Jun, the faraway half-brother I've never met in person before. I've seen him about once a week on screen, though, since I was a kid. I'm a little annoyed that I have to talk to a screen, instead of just my parents. Now, when my mom is having such a rare moment of pride in me, I've always been a little annoyed at these moments. Living my life with my family, then being forced to share something with near strangers, my parents and sisters are close to me. Hi, Kuyah Jun, I say. There's a pause. Maybe there's a delay. But he's not smiling. Maybe he's annoyed, too. Hey, congrats, the pixelated face finally says. Can I talk to our dad again? Now I'm fully annoyed, but I don't say anything. I'm just a few more minutes with your brother enough, our dad says in his low voice. A few more minutes Jun protests from thousands of miles away. He sounds more than annoyed.  Behind us, I hear the voice on the computer rise and I wish my dad would just turn off the screen. In our dad's rattling Tacoma, we pass the big uniform track developments my parents always mutter about in Tagalog. Some of them are abandoned, the building stopped months ago. We maneuver around SUVs and convertibles and past strip malls and chain restaurants and gas stations. Then we come to In-N-Out and park near a BMW. We have a BMW also, my dad says, patting the hood of his rusty truck. Bulacan motor works. I think he's referring to somewhere in the Philippines. He giggles at his own joke. We get in a busy line filled with firefighters and police officers, random road trippers and parents with nannies and toddlers. When we get to the front, there's a girl with curly brown hair taking the orders, maybe a couple of years older than me. I don't think she's that cute, but I do notice a small gap in her front teeth and that sets me off thinking about misholding again. I mumble. What? Sorry, can you repeat? The girl says. My mom orders. One cheeseburger, the animal fries and the shake. What's the one? She looks at me. Neapolitan, I managed to say. One burger also with extra lettuce, one cheeseburger, no lettuce, no tomato. My dad finishes remembering my mom's order. When we choose a table and get our food, sitting with my celebratory parents and feeling my want for misholding at the same time is too weird. It makes my throat close up. Oh, bucket, you're not hungry, my mother says. To my parents, not eating a ready meal means I might as well have stepped on it. It's so insulting. My dad gazes at me. His gaze is as strong as any saints, any statues, and I chomp my burger to avoid it. I thought of you today, Anak says. I was painting the wall in a house blue, huh? And the lady of the house, she came and starts speaking Spanish to me. Very bad Spanish, only Ola and I like enchilada. I tell her, ma'am, you can speak English to me or Filipino. And she give me a dirty look.   Now she has a blue and white dog. I thought, maybe I'll add red, patriotic for the USA. I thought if my Phil and daughter is here, she'll be proud. He laughs, his high pitched laugh. Some of the officers around look at him, a Filipino man giggling so silly. It makes me nervous. But I start to laugh too, thinking of my dad, and the little painted dog, and the frowning lady. Ma tries to restrain her own smile. Well, you shouldn't paint dogs. You need the work. So many customers love their dogs. My dad winks at me with both eyes. And then I realize the story isn't true. He just wanted to make me laugh. He has mean clients a lot, though. People who think he's dumber than he is just because of the English he speaks. But he always gets the job done. As if on cue, his Nokia buzzes. He checks a text. And another buzz, another text. Just your brother texting again, he says. He smiles a little sadly this time. Small misunderstanding. The phone rings before I can ask what happened. I get triply annoyed at Kuyi Jun. My dad looks at the number, frowns meaningfully at my mom that answers. Sir, good evening, sir. That client again, my mom sighs. I relax a little. It's not Jun. Jun. The client with the blue dog, I ask. No, my mom says. A different one. A Filipino with a lot of demands. Papa gets up from the table to talk outside, switching to Tagalog. I watch my dad standing in the sparse garden outside in and out, wiping his forehead. He's been up since 4.30 a.m., trying to get as many jobs as he can. He catches me looking in smiles, masking his worry. He returns. Just one more thing at the Potrera street house, he says. Rome, my mom protests. It's almost sundown. Where's your crew? He shrugs. Okay, long, mahal. Easy, long. May flashlight naman. It's the middle of your dinner. How could Manolo ask you at this hour, mom? I'm annoyed at a rising voice. Tata is strong. He doesn't even need glasses. He can work if he wants to. Oh, see? My dad laughs again. Your daughter believes in my work. Finish your food. Take your time. I'll drop you at home after. My mom raps our half-eaten burgers to take home. She cuts her eyes at me. We'll go now, Rome. So you can work with the light. In the truck, my parents simmer. My dad turns on pop music. My mom turns it down. She looks at me in the rear view mirror. So, corazón, she says. You know what this quiz means. Not necessarily, I say, though I have a feeling I know what she'll tell me. It means you do it once. You can do it again, she says. Again and again, until succeeding is normal to you.  My dad nods. He reaches from my mom's hand. A truce. I watch the houses and trees speeding by. I don't think I can guarantee that rate of success. I don't think normal will ever apply to me. I feel like a failure already.  You'll do it enough. Kaimoyan. I smile, but my smile isn't real. All their face in me, it scares me. My dad walked barefoot through the streets when he was a kid in the Philippines selling cigarettes and breath mints and newspapers to angry drivers stuck in traffic on their way to the business district. One time, someone dumped a can of coke over his head and laughed. Another time, someone took his wooden box of stuff without pain. Then one time, someone peed on him from the high window of an SUV, but he only told that story once. Just watch out.  It's not always raining. He smiled, but his smile folded into something hard and far away. My dad drives away to work in the demanding client's yard. I bargain with myself and with Mary again. I'll give my whole mind to my homework. I'll give up sleep, Facebook, staring into space, staring at Miss Holden. No, no, no, no more, Miss Holden. She doesn't exist. My crush is fleeting. My GPA is forever. Except I remember her smiling at me today, asking me about history. And all my resolve gets thrown out the window like a defenestrated Catholic official in 1419 Prague. I run up the stairs to my desk. I spread my homework out. This is what I know about her. One, she graduated from my high school herself, class of 2003. Two, she surfs. I looked at her old Honda Civic one day and saw a longboard. Three, she has a tattoo of a black jagged tree on her right arm. The only time she revealed it was when she absentmindedly rolled up her shirt sleeves on a warmer day. The principal will fire me for corrupting you, she joked, realizing her mistake. And she rolled her sleeves back down, covering the tree forever. Miss Holden was living with her mom again in Thousand Oaks, finishing her European history dissertation at UCLA. She took over as a last minute substitute because her first AP European history teacher, Miss Carmody, had to take a leave for mysterious health reasons, AKA she never seemed quite sober during our morning classes. And I'm going to stop the excerpt there. So what began this book for me was really the character's voice. And so I wanted to talk a little bit about my thinking around how you make a character and keep in mind this is just one way of thinking about how to make a character. There are many ways. If anyone ever gives you advice about writing and says this is the only way you do blank, you can be sure that they are wrong. So this is this is just one way of thinking about character. So I will start with the most basic definition of character, if you'll forgive me for sharing it. Okay, so character, it is a person in a story. Occasionally, it can be an animal or an object that has a point of view. But for my purposes, for our purposes, a character is a person in a story. So when I first began this novel, it was really from Corey's voice. And there are different points of view in which you can tell any story. So first person point of view is I second person point of view is you. And third person point of view is he she they we're sort of outside the character but following it closely. But for me, my heart underwater always had to be in first person from Corey's point of view and Corey was going to be the main character of the story. So some thoughts on what the main character is in the next slide. Okay, so a main character, aka a protagonist. So a main character takes action. Okay, they make decisions. So you can hear in this section that Corey is making just small decisions that are pretty critical all throughout this chapter all throughout this evening, right, with her parents. So first, she's very cautious in the way she approaches her mom, but she chooses to show the quiz, you know, which touches off a series of events. She chooses to listen to her parents' stories to remember them, and also chooses to not think about Ms. Holden, and then chooses to think about Ms. Holden, right. So Corey is making decisions, taking action and even in small ways, you know, all throughout the book. A protagonist also undergoes a change. So Corey at this point in the book, we can tell that she's very close to her parents, that she doesn't feel confident in herself as a student. But there's something happening inside her that she doesn't really understand that's very intense. So we can sense that she's moving toward changing, right. And then a protagonist also carries motivations. Motivation is very important when you think about a character. So motivation, they're the reasons for doing what they're doing. So what motivates Corey? Right now, the motivations are sort of having a traffic jam in her head, right. So she's very motivated to succeed, because she knows what her parents have been through. She has a hint of the terrible poverty that her father had to escape, and the economic struggle that they're going through right now. And so she wants to fit what their definition of success would be, which would mean a certain academic number, which would mean being devout, praying, being loyal to her family. But at the same time, she's having these really intense new feelings of discovering that she wants to date a person of the same similar gender as her. So that also affects her motivations, those emotions, those new discoveries, and all of the anxiety that goes with that. Okay. So next slide. This is how you reveal a character. Okay, so you reveal a character through their thoughts, through their dialogue, what they say, through their actions. So again, the decisions they make, the comments of other characters, and then the characters physical appearance. So I chose to write the book in first person so that we would always have access to Corey's thoughts at any given moment. So we can see her observing her own home, which is a little bit disorganized and always connected with the Philippines. So the boxes near the door, when she walks in, those are goods for relatives in the Philippines, for her half brother. When she goes to see her mom, she can sense the comment of her mom of not knowing what to expect, because she knows that Corey isn't necessarily a 4.0 student. But Corey chooses to share that quiz result. The character's dialogue, she's a little bit quiet around her parents. She's learned that the parents are in charge, even though she loves them a lot. And so she's not super forthcoming with what happened through her day, unless it's an achievement. And then the character's actions. So not only is she choosing to share a quiz with her parents and go in and out with her parents, but she's also choosing to keep this crush really secret. So we have her thoughts, her secret emotions, and then the character choosing to hide them. So that's always very interesting when you have a character who's choosing to keep a secret, what's going to happen with that secret? So that offers that question to your readers. And then the comments of other characters. So we hear her mom scolding her to make sure that succeeding is normal to you. And then we have her dad sort of trying to cheer her up, sensing how stressed out she is, saying that she can do it. So two different ways of her parents expressing faith in her. And then also even that interaction in and out, where the person mind the counter is like, are you speaking? And you can see how just completely undone Corey is by this crush, it's just even interfering with her ability to speak, right? I don't know if you've ever had a crush that strong. I'll pray for your heart if you have. And then the character's physical appearance. I don't talk about it much in this chapter, but in other chapters, you know, Corey is very aware of colorism, you know, colorism is a huge issue in the Filipino community. So she is knows that she is more brown and treated a certain way in public than her cousin, who's half white, you know, doesn't encounter. So, you know, she she also is very proud of her parents and who they are and is protective of them in this environment. You can see in and out, her parents are sort of the only Filipino couple there. And so Corey is very vigilant about what she's seen, right? So these are all the ways that I tried to reveal the character of Corey. So when your brainstorming a character that you might want to explore, this is a good list to keep track of, you know, what is the character thinking? How does the character's speech or dialogue change or hesitate or get expressive around different characters? What decisions what actions is the character taking? What do the characters say to or about that character? And what does the character look like? You know, how do they move? What did they feel about their own face? How does how does that contrast from other people around them? Okay, so different ideas of how you can reveal your character. Okay, and then the next slide. So many things shape a character. But for me, these are sort of the most important things, right? So the setting, the physical location that the characters in in the story, what they travel to the year it is, you know, what's going on in that year that might affect that character, their personal history. So in addition to the year it is whatever is happening in the environment during that year. What about the personal history? What about their family? What do they remember, you know, what stays with them that affects how they're feeling at that moment or what they want? And speaking of what they want, they're motivating desires. So a character usually has something they really want. And then an obstacle they're facing. So we can sense that Cori really wants to succeed. And she wants to make her parents proud. But at the same time, all of a sudden, she wants to experience these crush feelings. She wants to connect with someone that she's attracted to. So those desires are sort of becoming obstacles to each other because she's in the conservative environment. Because there's nothing in her environment, nothing in her family, nothing in her schooling, nothing in her religion that would give her any guidance as to what this crush means or what she should do or not do with it. So she's trying to sort of erase that part of herself. But it's so powerful that she has to experience it, even if she's experiencing it alone. And then of course, related to that, a character is also shaped by secret feelings. So what secrets are your characters keeping? What feelings are helping them make decisions or not helping them make decisions? So for Cori's, if I start from the beginning, for Cori's setting, it's 2009. And she is in a conservative suburb of Southern California. So there aren't a lot of other Filipino families around. It's a mostly white neighborhood. And in 2009, there was an economic downturn. So those details of her parents doing budgets on spreadsheets, and they don't really order that much in and out. They kind of treat her, but then they only order like one burger each for themselves. And they're being affected by this economic downturn. Her parents are taking jobs her dad is taking a lot of extra jobs. So that to me, the stress of that and how Cori is observing that. And also knowing how in 2009, a lot of Filipino families were separated by the economic need to leave the Philippines and then support families back in the Philippines. Cori is absorbing all of that. So every character exists within a context where they're in relationship, both to a physical setting and to the people around them. And then of course, her personal history. So her mom, she feels is really smart and good at things that she's not good at. She remembers her own sort of loneliness at school. She knows these fun and then also really sad details about how her dad grew up. She knows that she has a brother. And she's a little bit intimidated by what her dad's connection to him might mean for her relationship with her dad. So there's a lot that's in her own personal history, in her own memory, in her own emotions that's also shaping her. Of course, her motivating desires I talked about. Her desire to succeed and also all of a sudden her desire to date women. And then her secret feelings, you know, this new capacity for attraction and affection and crush and excitement. At the same time, she keeps secret, you know, some irritation at her parents or some longing from her parents. So those are all the ways that a character can be affected in addition to ways that you can reveal a character. And I have an exercise for you on the next slide that hopefully you can take home with you. If you were to brainstorm a character for like five minutes, you know, brainstorm a character you want to write and then imagine that character making a huge decision. And then write that moment. Right?  Where is the character living? What year is it? What happened that year? You know, what are their secrets? What are their biggest emotions? What are their memories? How do they talk? How do they talk to this person? How do they talk to that person?  So for me in this chapter, Corey's huge decision is now I'm not going to think about Ms. Holden. No, I'm not going to think about Ms. Holden. And then she thinks about Ms. Holden. Right? So it's a big decision and then another big decision. And that's how I wrote that moment for her. Right? And then there are a lot of other, you know, a lot of other decisions and actions that take place in the book. But for you, if you want to take this exercise home, you know, this is something that you can practice while making your own character. So that's me introducing Corey from my heart underwater and introducing some ideas about what might make a character. And so I hope that helps. And if you have any questions, I'd love to chat. Thank you so much for listening. That's wonderful, Laurel. Thank you so much for sharing a little bit about Corey, a little bit more about Corey and character writing and process there. We have some time for questions. So if anybody has any questions, feel free to jump in. I'm a big fan of the book. So I have questions that I hope would be relevant for other folks out there either listening, reading the book or listening to it or interested and intrigued. So one of the things that I really appreciated was how central family was to the story, whether it was good or bad, right? So there were, there were parts of the story where family was really, really tight knit. And there's other parts where there was breaks in family and relationships. So I was wondering, how did you share this with your family before? At what point did you or have you not, if it's still a secret?  I feel like everyone's parents and grandparents now are on Facebook. And I do have to make a distinction because it's also a distinction I had to learn for myself when I started the book, which is that Corey is not me. People can interpret the book however they like. But Corey has her own history and I have my own family. But there are things that I've observed within the Filipino diaspora around, you know, having kids outside of, you know, the main nuclear family around having, you know, family members in the diaspora and then family members within the country, different class statuses, even within the family, different, you know, ideas around color and race and language within the family. And I think I saw all of those differences within my own family. Did my parents read it? Yes. But they never told me what they thought. So they sent me pictures of like them holding the book. And I was like, cool.  And I haven't asked what they thought. If anything, I think I heard more from from friends about it, you know, different reactions. But but that's a great question. I mean, as a writer, you can't account for everyone. And you never know quite what people will object to. And then what they'll connect to. So so that's a risk you always take. It's a vulnerable thing as a writer. That's, that's really interesting. And I think that just showed the level of support family has, right? I mean, yeah, they were there, they're there for that. So we also, we just got a question in about surprising reactions from readers to the characters or the events. Yeah, what, what's that like? I think the most moving reactions that I've gotten, well, I was surprised that people found Cory to be like too angsty.  It must have been so calm for you. But I think the most moving reactions I've gotten have been from survivors of abuse. And they felt so understood in the way that I portrayed. Cory is really complicated, internal journey from feeling really lonely and feeling really taken apart inside to feeling really accompanied. And so I've had people both within and outside of the Philippine community write to me and say that they understood Cory psyche and felt understood in ways that they hadn't by other works. Because it's also a story about how subtle abuse can be, right? And then the thing that really surprised me was I heard from some people who said that the character of the teacher really made them reflect on their own past behavior and made them reevaluate whether or not they were abusive and if they have to make amends. And I sort of paraphrase Alexander Chi when he says he reached goals with his books that he didn't even realize he had. And to me, when I heard that, I thought, wow, I didn't know that I had that goal, but I did reach it. So those are some, I think, really surprising reactions that I got to the book. And to that point, I really appreciated how you created the characters of June's bandmates. Because I thought that was such a supportive circle when Cory didn't know she needed, maybe she knew she needed it, but she didn't know what it was. So I really, really appreciated that piece. So thank you for adding that. Let's talk a little bit about setting. So definitely, we hear jolly beep and we hear in and out. And I think those are just mainstays in the community and in the diaspora. But you just were spot on with the sights and the sounds of both Southern California, and I imagine the Philippines, I have not been yet. But can you talk a little bit about that process or research that you did for that? Yeah, thank you so much. I think again, going back to character, I had to think about how Cory would be feeling both in Southern California and in the Philippines at this time of life. I think Southern California is safe for her, but also very lonely. Because she's never quite fit in at school. She feels really isolated by these new feelings. And then when she's in the Philippines, she's kind of wrecked. She's kind of emotionally wrecked and having a panic attack every day. So when I go back to the Philippines, I'm really excited. I'm delighted that I'm going to get to see all of my friends who are very much like those van mates. But I think at first, Cory is extremely stressed out by the airport, by the social interactions, by the physical environment, the levels of poverty and the levels of wealth that she encounters. So I think a lot of my looking into that is observing. Both again, in my personal history, similar to character, and also what I see and what I take for granted in the Philippines and in California. I think so much of writing is not taking for granted and looking again and identifying what those objects are, what the streets are, what the strangeness is, what the familiarity is, what the sense of home is, what the sense of being a stranger is, and how a character going through what Cory is going through might interact with those environments. And I lived in Teacher's Village for many years and I adore that neighborhood. And I make a point whenever I'm in the Philippines to go back and just walk around. Nice. Yeah, that just sounds so intense and so kudos. And what's your writing process like? That's a question. Is it ever a struggle to sit down and get words on the page? And if it is, is there a trick of your trade that you do? I'm driven by horrible anxiety. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, very simple. I mean, that part I definitely understand, you know, although I think she's a lot more confident than I am in many ways of the decisions she makes. But anyway, yeah, it's difficult all the time. And so the way I finished this book was by hand. So when I do a first draft, I get away from everything blinking, like all the notifications, you know, telling me to give my attention to them. And I, you know, left my phone at home and left my computer at home, and I finished it by hand. And I definitely have this voice that tells me like, this is terrible, like give up, like that other writer can do it better, you know, like no one needs to hear this. And so I listen to music when that happens.  So those are my like quote unquote tricks. I very much believe in writing by hand because then you have more of a permission, it seems to make mistakes, you know, as much as we're tied to phones and screens. You know, I encourage everyone to get a legal pad and a pen and start doodling. And I love that for young writers too. And for, and for educators and teachers, just like that, that, that pause, like that moment, like your creativity could just flow, like with your exercise that you shared earlier, just set a timer. That's the only thing that you need to like listen for, if that, even if you need to listen to it and just go. So yeah, I appreciate that. Great. Yeah. And I think, you know, if I sat down every day and said, I'm writing a book, I'd be like, no, not by, you know, like, but if you sit down and say, I'm going to write for five minutes, right, or I'm going to write this one moment. I'm thinking about, you know, it's however you can trick yourself into finally making work that needs to reach other people. We also have a question asking, what's the best thing you've read recently? Ooh, the best thing I've read recently. Well, I love 100 Demons by Linda Berry, who's also a really wonderful Filipino American comics writer. And she imagines like things that make her sad or things that kind of flaunt her or stop her as like little demons that she draws. So that's one thing that I would encourage every teen to pick up. Cool. And I love switching it up in terms of format, right? So I listened to your book on audio. And when we talk with authors and illustrators, it really depends I think on relationship and on the person and maybe on their agents and on their publishers, who gets to talk to each other like before or who has to work completely separate in terms of manuscript and illustration. And I'm wondering for audio, how does that work? Like, do you get to recommend people? There's a lot of, I think it's Tagalog, I'm not sure, but there's a lot of language in there that, you know, you want to get right. So how does that work? What is that conversation like? Yeah, so actually they sent me some recordings of performers.  And then, you know, they requested the top three. So I give them the top three. And then I think they chose based on who was available. And then the performer sent us a list of words that they didn't quite know how to say. And then, you know, my accent is terrible. I have about like a two-year-old's level of Tagalog, like if that. And then my spouse was feeling self-conscious about her accent because she didn't start speaking fluently until like college years. And so we sent the list of words to a friend of hers who had spoken to Tagalog like all her life. And then she read each word like into the tape recorder. And we sent that back to the performer. So it was like a very diaspora like WhatsApp help us sort of cycle. But that's how it happened. Well, and I was sharing with with some colleagues, I was like, I was listening to the book. I don't speak Tagalog. I have some Spanish fluency. So there's pieces of Spanish that I feel like I, you know, that are similar. But I didn't it didn't detract at all from the story. And I really appreciate that. And I was, you know, looking through the paper copy of the book. And it's not italicized. I really appreciate that too. Right. So conversations around that. And are those decisions that you make or that you make with a team, like how to incorporate language? Yeah, I thought that's a wonderful question. I love that question. I think a lot of times about language, it depends on who you're thinking about as your audience. And the writer, Link Castillo addresses this in an essay called, There is no one voice of America.  I had really wonderful mentors in the Philippines through a program called Tagalog onsite that was taking place there for about 10 years that took Phil Ames back to the Philippines to learn Tagalog. And so from there, even though I was never as proficient, you know, as I wanted to be, I really respected the presence of the language and the importance of it. And I grew up listening to it. And there are so many different Englishes, you know, Taglish is one kind of English. So when, you know, I had editors looking at the book, and then when the book was selected, and we were thinking about, you know, italics, I requested specifically not to italicize things. And they agreed, you know, because it is just how we hear it, it's how we read it. So it's, I think it's good for even readers who aren't familiar with the language to encounter. Yeah. And I agree wholeheartedly, there's so many folks who speak other languages and other versions of English. And it's really wonderful, I think, for teens, for young people to be able to see that in print for them in a story that they could relate to. So yes, good, good idea. Thank you. And speaking of teens and educators, do you have any suggestions on how teachers or parents or educators or teens can use this book? Yeah, I mean, I do think this is a book about moving from loneliness and a dangerous emotional place to accompaniment and a greater sense of community and a greater sense of safety. So I think above all thematically, that's what the book is about. And then it's a matter of also of setting, of being the children of immigrants, of being observant in that way, of having that history in you and around you, and also connecting with family in surprising ways. So both, you know, a literal brother.  And then also found family that you find through music or through neighborhoods or through things that you're concerned about. So I think that's how I would like for teachers to think about it.  Like, I could just keep asking you about characters and like the end of the book and the whole testing, but I won't because I want to read it too. I don't want them to get all the goods from us. But I was wondering if you have, what's next for you, if you're able to share any upcoming projects or yeah, I think folks want to know. I'm working through it.   So we'll see. We'll see how that goes. But yeah, that's what's next. Oh, that sounds fun. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of character. Yeah, exactly. So I'm thinking through all of their motivations. Oh, well, wonderful. It's been fantastic to chat with you. Like, really, I feel like I'm spoiled because I asked you all these questions I have. And some folks had some great questions here in the chat too. So I want to thank them. But if you have any, anything you'd like to share, any final words for our audience. So great. Well, you can find my Heart Underwater at San Francisco Public Library and at the Harper Collins website or your local independent bookstore. So if you want to pick it up, and I'd love to hear from you, I am on Twitter. And I'm also on, I'm on Instagram at my Heart Underwater. Sorry, I'm on Instagram at my Heart Underwater. So if you ever want to connect or talk about the book or talk about character, just let me know. Okay, thank you, Laurel. Yes, the handles are in chat. So feel free to save those and make sure that you'll follow Laurel and see what's next for her and for us. So thank you so much, Laurel, for joining us today. Yeah. And if you all love today's program, check out our calendar. Please share this with folks. This will be available to be shared as well. There are more opportunities to engage in cultural programs just like this to celebrate Filipino American History Month. And we have links in the chat to make sure that you all save and bookmark. And that's all for today. So take good care of yourselves. Thanks again, Laurel. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. And stay safe, everyone. And we hope to see you in another library program soon. Have a good night.


Thank you for coming out today for the soundtrack release of Miracle Mile. Thank you very much. We have several great guests here today. To my immediate left is Paul Haslinger from Tangerine Dream. Paul has had a really prolific career over the years. After Tangerine Dream he embarked on a solo career. He's worked on quite a few really cool projects like the TV shows Halt and Catch Fire and Fear the Walking Dead just to name a couple. And he's done scores for movies like the latest Resident Evil movie Resident Evil the final chapter for Paul W. S. Anderson and he's worked on other Paul Anderson films like Death Race. And to my far left is Steve DiGiarnette the writer and director of Miracle Mile. In addition to Miracle Mile Steve directed a really cool post apocalyptic movie that I'm a big fan of called Cherry 2000. We're going to show some clips from Miracle Mile just for a couple of minutes just to give you some context for what we're doing here today. But I just real briefly I'm going to introduce myself. My name is David Moore. I wrote a book called World Gone Wild Survivors Guide to Post Apocalyptic Movies. The book was what I would hope to consider the ultimate end of the world movie guide. I reviewed something like 850 films in the genre. It took me a long time to write it. And in the book I also interviewed a whole bunch of filmmakers and actors and screenwriters including Steve which I think is why I was asked to come here because I have a little bit of a history with Steve and I have a history with the genre. So I'm going to sit down. We're going to take I don't know like three or four minutes to look at these clips from Miracle Mile and I'll come right back up and we'll ask some questions to these guys. OK. Thank you. It took tens of thousands of years for civilization as we know it to reach the modern era. And it took 30 years for Harry Wachell to find the right girl. Mr. Charles Horton, Sam Marino, wake him up. Any price. No amount is absurd, right? Is anyone here a Christian?  I hope I can maintain. Danny Berrigan and his brother. I'll settle for you. Yeah. Bobby Seale, Dick Gregory. You got these people's thumb now? Terry, don't you get ahold of me yet? No. Get this line up first. Don't waste time. There's no point. Get it? Stay calm. Optimum efficiency. So my first question is for Steve. You wrote this script in the late 70s. Is that right? Yeah. Well, I pitched the idea to Warner Brothers earlier in 70. I turned it in, I think, December of 79. So just at the very end of the 70s. And the movie was not made until 88? Shot it, I think, in the end of 87. It was released in May of 89. So right at the tail end of the Cold War, I was going to say something, not to get too politically invested here. But I mean, the movie came out at a very crucial time in our history. And it kind of feels like right now we're on the precipice of another Cold War nuclear apocalypse. This movie is just as important as it was then. Well, I'd like to say that it's much more likely to happen tonight. And this is before the election in November, even, than it was back then, where everybody's on high alert. People were really skilled and trained to have mutual assured destruction. And now who's mining the store? And a tweet could set things off. So yeah, it sadly plays more dramatic and less comedic today, I've noticed, when I've run it. Yeah. The movie, in essence, is a timeless film. And over the years, I mean, I remember when it came out, it had this very slow build. I mean, there were people that really loved this movie when it first came out. I mean, I was one of them. As a kid, I saw it. It just was amazing. I remember I think I watched it on VHS the first time. But the movie's not a cult classic anymore. I think this movie is verifiable classic all on its own. So I just wanted to say that. That's a statement. Thank you. I'm happy just being a cult oddity. Well, I think Cherry 2000 is a cult classic. But Miracle Mile is a classic all by itself. And my next question for you is that I've were connected on Facebook. And I've seen you post pictures. And you have posts, it seems like every other week, at least once a month. Sorry. Well, I mean, no, no, it's not that.  Well, I came back from France. We ran in 15 cities in 19 days, sold out the cinema tech. Two different articles in Calle du Cinema. So I'm like Jerry Lewis there now or something. They do feel that way. They discovered some lost classic film. I guess it's going to play in 100 theaters by the time it's done.  It's coming out in Blu-ray. Turbine is coming out. It's already out. That Blu-ray and the UK Blu-ray is coming out, too. Well, what is it that you think this? Why does this movie resonate so strongly all over the world? It's not just amongst film lovers and fans of post-apocalyptic movies like myself. But this movie is resonating on a global scale. Why do you think that is? What is it about this movie that is garnering new fans? We contemplate the end of the world these days. And so the whole theme of the movie is what would you do if you were chicken little and you knew before everybody else did? And how would you spend that time?  Would you ultimately be spoiling data? I want to be with the person I love, even if I don't know them that well. So I mean, I think the tension of the times certainly does that. There is an affection for all things 80s. And the mullet, I'd like to CGI. But otherwise, I do embrace the 80s-ness of it. Although we didn't wet the streets down and use a lot of smoke and backlight like a rock video. So it looks a little different than other 80s movies. I don't know. When the film came out, I'd say 75% of people were very positive. Some adored it. And then some people hated it. Some just thought it was the worst movie ever made or frustrated them some others. So there were a lot more people who vehemently didn't like it. And I don't seem to find that too much today, I guess. But I am dealing in the cult world, which they are all fans. So yeah. We're not going to talk too much about Cherry 2000. But I wanted to ask you one question about Cherry 2000. And that's about the score by Basil Polodaris. Basil was one of the all-time great composers we ever had. What led you to get Basil for that film? Well, my first professional job, I got to direct part of an Alfred Hitchcock Presents pilot that then turned into a TV show.  So he had scored that.  But otherwise, you know, Basil was perfect. I think his score, the supporting cast, and Julie Weiss's costumes make that film work, whatever works in that movie. I helped a little bit. The script by Michael Almoreta was quirky. But the score really makes that movie work. Yeah, I agree. So when it came time to make Miracle Mile, when you were putting the movie together, at what point did you realize? I mean, a lot of filmmakers like Paul W.S. Anderson, they go with the same composer many times. The question is, at what point did you think I want somebody else? I want something totally electronic? I want Tangerine Dream. Well, I never thought in a million years I could get Tangerine Dream. I wrote the script playing the Sorcerer soundtrack and other Tangerine Dream things. I mean, that's maybe I played a little of Peter Gabriel's birdie later or something. I don't know when that came out. That was later, I think. But when I was writing it, I was just, you know, writing in the middle of the night playing, you know, Sorcerer soundtrack. I still, that to me is in my creative process is, if I play that, I will imagine missiles flying over and things like that. So then when we had a rough cut, you know, we sent it to them. Paul will tell the stuff. And John Dailey stepped up of Hemdale to pay whatever prices. We were a very low budget movie. So I was surprised that, first of all, that they wanted to do it. And then that John Dailey would pay for it. And it was one of the most amazing times of my life going over there to work with them. Paul, let's just assume that nobody knows anything about Tangerine Dream just for a second. Can you just give us a little backstory on how you became involved with Tangerine Dream in the early 1980s? They were, they had a studio in Austria and they were auditioning players for a UK tour. They had their third member unexpectedly quit the band and they needed a replacement fast.  So that was not good for touring. So they were auditioning players to fill in quickly or originally just for the tour. It was a 86 UK tour. And I at the time was studying music in Vienna and was a session player. I was in the studio circuit in Vienna. So I went to the audition, didn't give it much thought honestly and somehow got the gig, played the tour and then after the tour was asked to stay on for the next album, then there was a US tour coming up. So eventually just became part of the band. So it was a series of coincidences as most things in life are. One thing I've noticed about Tangerine Dream, I grew up in the 80s. So I mean, Tangerine Dream was always there. It was always a part of cinema. I always associated Tangerine Dream with cinema until I figured out, oh, there's other albums too. But the film projects that Tangerine Dream as a band or a collective or whatever we wanna call it, each project was radically different from the last one, the films.  The Keep is nothing like Three O'Clock High or even Risky Business. Miracle Mile is very radically different than anything else.  And now we look back on these movies and each one of them, even near dark or some of these films are very special movies. And partly due to the fact that these have really cool scores. Well, I think this is definitely a case where the perspective from the outside looks different than the perspective from the inside. And the honest answer is that how projects come to you is always a matter of coincidence and circumstance and it was the same for Tangerine Dream. Now I wasn't directly involved in project selection that was mostly Edgar and Chris when he was in the band. But I can assure you that there was no plan. There was no plan to only do special projects or specific projects. We would turn down certain things that were just bad movies or bad projects. But other than that, we didn't really have a scheme or a system in place to say we wanna, we have to do one on this side and then we're doing another one on the other side. That's not how it works. You're grateful when a good one comes along and this hasn't changed for me. To this day, you just have to be grateful when you get on a good project. And I've said this before in interviews, but the first time we watched Miracle Mile, it was like, yeah, this is a good one. You don't need, you have an initial reaction to a project and as a musician, you're either inspired or you're not. And it's not a black and white, of course, there's sort of degrees of it but once in a while one comes along where you go like, yeah, I really wanna do that. And that was Miracle Mile. Steve already mentioned that John Daly had a hand in getting you guys. But how was the project pitched to you? I mean, post-apocalyptic genre is kind of, it was the Western of the 80s. I mean, we're looking at pictures of the Road Warrior and Mad Max all over the place here. And there was this glut of Mad Max, Road Warrior type thing, a lot of cheapies. So how was this project pitched to you guys? Hey, I've got this really interesting post-apocalyptic movie for you guys. What were you thinking when this came? You know, I mean, I don't think it was pitched in a certain way that we knew what the story or the plot was about and we had a look at the movie and it seemed very well put together and have a certain aesthetic that as, you look at it as the group Tanger and Dream and you say, yes, this is something that we can do something for that's A, related to what we've done before, but B also gives us an opportunity to try something else. The score is an interesting, comes at an interesting point because it's the first score without Chris Franke, which was a big change in Tanger and Dream. And yet it relates to, it relates to the film scoring history of Tanger and Dream in interesting ways. The second clip we saw, this is material that at the time we were developing and it got used in Miracle Mile and in Near Dark, there's a connection between Near Dark and Miracle Mile in that one scene and the third scene, the night sequence, of course, borrower is inspired by risky business. So we were kind of reinventing ourselves a little bit for the film and we used to do that quite frequently, but Miracle Mile is not this isolated thing that happened on an island, but it connects to everything else that happened before and that's typically how it works. There is no, these projects don't happen on an island. They happen in connection with everything else that's going on, even the live work or the album work that was going on at the time in some ways influenced this film. For us, it was quite often because on an album, you always try to find a focus for the album and for the release and there's a lot of good ideas that don't make it onto the album because they don't fit that particular focus, but they can, for instance, find their way into a film and you say, I have this track, didn't really work on the album and this is how it started, by the way, with Sorcerer. Sorcerer was a bunch of leftover tracks that they just sent to Friedkin because he just kept bugging them and said, here, here's some stuff that we couldn't find any other place for. See if you can use it. Do you, oh, I do remember looking at the museum sequence that was a change of pace, too, and that was mainly your classical training, wasn't it? In that museum piece? Because you were highly trained in classical music and I remember Edgar remarking on that, too, that this was the sort of the new thing. I don't, I think what that piece was, I guess I first thought was this one of Edgar's things and then I heard to you, and I said, you know, that was definitely something I played, but I think it was Edgar sort of telling me some idea that he asked me to execute. I think he was encouraging your gifts, which did make it different than some of the things in the past. We were an interesting combination. When the final product of Miracle Mile complete score was in there, everything was all set, you got it for you, Paul. Do you remember watching the complete product and what did you think when you saw the movie, when it was scored, done, done? Well, you know, I started on a note of honesty, so I will continue with honesty and that is that, you know, whenever, or for me at least in my experience, whenever you finish something and then there's a time period of about three years after you finish it where you can't really watch it or listen to it because you're in danger of becoming suicidal. So after those three years, the real assessment begins, you know, and a lot of projects kind of just fall away and some projects you go like, yeah, that was actually not that bad and then over time you appreciate it more and you know, Miracle Mile is a great example of that, you know, where really in the beginning you get like, ah, I would have done that different, I would have done that different and this is wrong and it's not mixed. Even though I have to say, you know, the other thing you noticed with the clips, how music-friendly this music, this movie was mixed is quite remarkable given the fact that these days I try to attend every dub mix and almost every dub mix. I have to make a point for the music to either be louder or lower because it's usually wrong.  I mean, it was pretty much scored on the sessions there and then I, you know, with the music, I mean, it wasn't like, shame, we knew where all the cues were gonna go and I was on the stage making sure the music got up there. Mike Minkler was the mixer, he's one of the best, one of the Oscars, so. No, you let music carry the film at times and that is still to this day, it's... To me, it's, it's important to carry, it's important faction in this movie too as anything, is cinematography or writing or acting, is that the music is equal to any of the other creative parts of the movie, so. In 1989, there was a soundtrack release, there was an album that came out and that to this day has served as the soundtrack for this film, I've listened to that soundtrack many, many times on CD. Can you tell us, this question is for both of you, either one or both. What was on that soundtrack and what's on this new soundtrack that's different? What's the difference between these two soundtracks? The difference is that the original soundtrack was put together for private music label that we were assigned to at the time and it was the usual selection and concentration of tracks that we did for soundtracks for cues to be more, you know, consolidated as tracks, so it wasn't the full score, so this release now has the soundtrack released to original and then also the original score cues as they were used in the film, similar to the alien soundtrack that came out a while ago where it was the original recording and then what was actually used in the film. And the CD version had, you know, added on other instrumentation and added more things and places to it, yeah. We reproduced it a little bit for record release. Steve, this is pretty much my last question for you. Now that this movie has snowballed into this classic movie, as I've said, not just a cult classic, what would you like to say to fans of this film and to the people who came out to just to meet you today? You know, I just thank you and I love the way people in France are here to turn people onto it. They find somebody who hasn't, has never seen it and run it for somebody who doesn't know anything about it and is a litmus test, I don't know. That's the best way to watch it. You can't at four in the morning, but that's not that important. I don't know, just, you know, let's change the world so it'll be a comedy, not a drama. Paul, you've had a very prolific career. You've gone on to do lots and lots of projects on your own and with Andrew and Dream.  Well, one that I do not consider a waste of time. You know? No, I mean, it's like, it sorts itself out over time and there are a few ones that you're happy that you were part of and first of all, you're fortunate if you can even say that, you know, if you've spent your life in the entertainment industry and say, I've had a few that were actually not bad and you know, it's always gonna be that for me and it's also from the time in Tangerine Dream, it's just one of the founder memories that I have. You know, I was a 23-year-old kid. This was all sort of new stuff for me. Touring was amazing. You know, I went from slapping my own keywords on and off stage to everything was taken care of and then being thrown into film was amazingly stunning for me at the time. And but, you know, the truth is also that a lot of these films have sort of fallen away and some didn't, Near Dark didn't, Miracle Model didn't, Shy People in some degree didn't and you're happy if you can say that. So this probably is my favorite one though from the Tangerine Dream phase. All right, well thank you guys so much for taking part in this Q&A. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.


here all week so if you have any questions I love talking about this stuff please feel free if you want to, where did my contact information go? I believe my contact information at least my Twitter handle is on it's on the website so please just hit me up over Twitter and just ask any questions I love talking about this stuff I talk about it all the time, probably too much my developer friends get angry when we talk about it so I love to talk about it so please let me know if you have any suggestions I know that it's still running 3 hours so if you have any suggestions about how to change the talk it didn't really give us a good idea so just hit me up over Twitter and say hey, would it be cool if we could have done this or this was a little more difficult than you made it seem awesome yeah, I'm going to put them up I'm going to find out where I have to put them up so we're going to associate them with the conference and stuff like that so they're going to associate it with part of the other stuff but yeah, definitely alright, round of applause to Adam thank you very much just a little bit of housekeeping