You're not smoking on this one? We are, eatin' that. Oh, okay, cool. I'm just gonna be lookin' at y'all like, damn, I wish I could.    When you came in here.  I mean, Rap is Delight, you know. I was in sixth grade when that came out. You was in sixth grade with Rap, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, I remember every word, runnin' through the playground, rappin' it, you know. I was the first.  Yeah. He had a color TV, so he could see the next play basketball. Oh, yeah, Rest in Peace, Big Bang Hank. Yeah. Yeah, Sugar Hill is still out here. They still out here makin' a little noise, but. Yeah. Yeah, that was it.  Curtis Blow. Yeah. Christmas Rappin'. Come on, man. Christmas Rappin'. So, yeah, I'm from D.C., so. Okay. You know, when I was young, actually I was listenin' to Gogo. My name is Chico B from D.C. I know I was hopin' to meet him. I really wanted to talk to him. We just finished Wildin' Out and he had a show tonight. Yeah. Herman Hammer. All right, well, tell him I wanna meet him. You mean Gogo's here, man. Yeah, he knows. That's what I grew up on, you know. So we didn't really, you know, I heard rap on the radio and I liked it, but you didn't listen to it at all. Like, nobody listened to hip hop and D.C. for years, you know. So, it was different. Speaking of which, Fat Trill just got out. Shout out to Fat Trill. Yeah, come on. Shout out to Fat Trill. He did. He did. Good show.  Cause he wanted to call it for real. Yeah. Yeah. We need that. D.C. needs that, you know what I mean? Yeah, I feel like every city poster had one. Yeah. Fat Trill and Wale, and it should be more. You know what I mean? The city, the city just need one to pop. Yeah. That's because of Gogo. What I was saying though. Because there wasn't no rappers in D.C. for years because Gogo was so strong for so many years that it really kept hip hop out.  Cause that was the live instruments, everything. Oh yeah, just the whole, yeah. Gogo's all about the live shows.  Just never made it commercial. They couldn't make songs, you know? Cause Gogo started at the same time as hip hop in the 70s, you know? But they just didn't have songs and didn't, you know, never found a commercial format to really make it grow. But it's still. Give me five of your Gogo and go twos.   Rest in Peace to Chuck. Rest in Peace to Chuck. Yeah. Yeah.  Trouble Funk really was one of the first hardest group. Trouble Funk got some, some joints. And who else?  I mean, backyard's still, still doing that thing. Those guys are amazing. There's a few others. I mean, there's a few others. Mm-hmm. Most definitely. It's where you send the tone. Yeah. And he's music. DJ.   We've been sitting here for the last 30 minutes listening to him play. I was just saying, bro, he on his way out the door. Oh. All right. It's my dog, man. We started out great. All right. Well, I'm trying to save him, man. He must have known. Give him a plug. He beats for every show. Now, he's got me on the rotation, man. We just getting the same thing.  He needed to get in the lab, man. And the people starting to notice it. Got to get in the lab. I don't know what happened, bro.  I mean, right there, but I got to call his people. Ain't that some shit? That's rough. If you want to talk to me directly. That's rough. Speak to me.   What you been up to? Hey, man. Yeah, just bought a house. Okay. Don't tell these people that. Okay. You told them.  I thought they ain't fine. Yeah, we started. They know now.   He might believe it. I don't know. He might believe it. Don't show that. He ain't gonna cut it out. Look, he's trying to move it to the neighborhood nice and easy right now. I don't need that. I don't need it. But yeah. Little Richard Price said, want you to buy a house. Everything costs $500. Everything. Everything.  He's like, you need the door hinges. I was like, how much are they?  Google it already. I'm like, that $4 a piece. I go get them. You ain't got to bring.  They be here when you get here. Ready. So. Mm. But yeah, everything costs us.  Yeah, you're using it up. That's good though. Yeah. Congratulations. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know your granddad is proud of you.  Like they just wouldn't let it happen.   Your granddad?   I mean, it's like, yeah. What can you do? You know what? This would be the perfect time to say, welcome back to the 85 self show. Oh my God. Good to be back.  I know these people. You know, we've been getting a lot of people stopped through the trap. Some very interesting guests. You know, cause you know, 85 self show is all about the culture. Oh man. And preserving the culture. Okay. And growing. The culture. And you know, getting to the motherfucking roots of the culture. Like inside of this culture, there are certain things that are just ingrained. Like they're, we don't know where it came from. We don't even know. We don't know how it got here. We don't know. So it's our job as journalists. Ooh. Sometimes we got to do a little something. Sometimes we got to do a little something. Sometimes we have been doing a little something. Take your book cover picture. Take your book cover picture. Bruh. We got to do a little journalism sometimes. Because we in the position. Well, we need to be in a position where we can talk directly to the people. We ain't got to go off no threads or no internet camp. We just go taller directly at the folks who was there. Yeah. So today, we got Dave Mades. Come on. Let's go. We got Dave Mades in the trap with us today. Happy to be here. Happy to be here. Thank you guys for having me. The founders of The Source. The Founder. The Founder. See? See, that's what we got to do. I mean, we thought y'all was a group. Nah, it was The Founder. I'm the founder. The Founder of The Source. Man, before we even get to Founder and The Source, man, walk us all the way up into that. Like, how did this happen, man? Well, like we was talking about before I grew up in DC, just kind of got exposed to the music and the culture of the city at a young age and just kind of fell in love with it.  Just always trying to make businesses do things. So I ended up getting into Harvard. I went to Harvard. Hold up. Hold up. Come on. Let's go. We never had nobody in the trap that went to Harvard. You got a Harvard graduate? Harvard grad, yeah. So my son need a letter. I got you. He ain't really yet. But when he's four, he going to be about ready now. You got one. You got one. You got one letter. It's done, it's done. You pretty smart. You know, I'm smart, I guess, in some ways. But you know, I learn every day just like everybody else. Yeah. Don't you got to, like, write in cursive in first grade to go to Harvard? You got to do a lot more than that, boy. You got to be one of the men's students. Finger paint inside the lens. If you're black, you got to be in Jack and Jill. Ooh. What was that about? What's the part of the chick talking about, Dave?  For real, you ain't been around that many white people before. I mean, not just white, but just the type of people.  You know, I went through the public schools.  And but, you know, I'm up there with my fila, sweatsuit, thinking I'm cool. And, you know, I didn't fit in at all. And nobody was on that. So I ended up joining the radio station. The radio station was playing classical music all day long. That was what they had Harvard students in there running it, playing classical. 24 hours. Damn near 24 hours. But the signal was big. It reached all around Boston. So Harvard's right outside Boston. So I ended up getting a radio show on Friday nights at one in the morning to play hip hop and go-go. The show was called Street Beat. My radio name was Go-Go Dave. So there's a lot of people in Boston that still know me as Go-Go. They still call me Go-Go because of hosting that show. I ended up hosting it for four years. I stayed up there through the summers and kept the show going. And that was a way for me to get outside of Harvard, connect with, you know, what was going on with the community and with hip hop. Because this is like the beginning of the golden era of hip hop. We had hip hop. We had Run DMC. We had Curtis Blow. We had Sugar Hill. We had on the 87. 86. I get to Harvard and fall 86. So that's when Rock Him drops. That's when Boogie Down Productions drops first time. Then you get Public Enemy. Then you get NWA, Ghetto Boys, all that. So that's when I really dove into hip hop. Once I got up to the Boston area and at Harvard, the source came about the station let you sell sponsorships. And you could make money if you sold sponsors of your radio show. So I was going around telling people, because I had listeners all around Boston. You couldn't hear rap music on the radio in the 80s anywhere. Like, you had to find it in the middle of the night if you did and people would spread the word. So I had the show on Friday nights, one in the morning. I had tried to go out and sell sponsors.   So I ended up building up a mailing list of my listeners to try to show how big of an audience I had, create a little database. And then during that time, I come up with the idea to create a newsletter, call the source, to provide news and information to the hip hop fans. Because when I'm talking to fans and they're calling in, everybody wants to know information. So back in those days, there's no information. When is the new Big Daddy Kane single coming out? Who produced that? Who's on the remix? People want to know everything that was going on. There's no internet. There's no social media. There's none of that. None of the regular places talk about hip hop on the radio. That's what I'm saying. Who was the database? Just names and phone numbers. Name and address. Name and address. Adress. Yeah, I mailed the newsletter out for free. And I sold four ads on the back of that first. The source started as one piece of paper, a yellow Xerox page, front and back, that I mailed out to 1,000 hip hop fans in the Boston area and to all the record label people that I was dealing with at the labels that the different hip hop labels back in the day, that type of thing. And went from one page. This is right before my junior year in college, so I'm doing it out of my dorm room for two years. But it goes from one page to six pages to 16 pages and starts to become more like a magazine and starts selling it in the Mama Pop record stores all over. And just one thing led to another. I just came up with the idea of trying to build a rolling stone of the hip hop generation. That was really the first inspiration big. Like, OK, Rolling Stone started as a underground rock and roll newspaper. And it grew into the biggest name of the 70s and 80s and all the media. So anyway, that was kind of my first idea. And I just never looked back like I just never looked back. And that's why all them ads was in the back. That makes sense. The back of the source had all the ads, man. We had good ad revenue over the years. Definitely, definitely did. What are some of your highlights from creating that? Yeah, you had a long run. Yeah, I was at the source for 20 years, almost. Man, there's so many. The awards. Yeah, I mean, all the source awards. Of course, there's the most famous 95 awards. But all the source awards were amazing. And have incredible memories and things that happen there. Historic things, almost every one of them. You know, just, I mean, Biggie is one of the most biggest things that happen with the source and with the unsigned height column. You know, unsigned height was a column. We reviewed demo tapes every month of unsigned rappers. People would just mail in their demo tapes to us. And we would have somebody sit in the office and listen to all these tapes and pick out the best ones. And so unsigned height, we discovered Biggie, DMX, Mobd, Comments. Before they had a record deal.  And personally got some of those artists their own deals. David Banner. He was in there, Joel Santana. So, but Biggie was one of the biggest ones because I personally had my man Matty C, who did the unsigned height, bring the tape up to Puff. When they gave Puff, Puff was A&R at Uptown. And then it gave him a bad boy deal to start his label. And he had called me up and said, I'm looking for rappers. Do you guys got anybody? I went down the hall to my man Matty and he told me about Biggie. We had just put him in the magazine and unsigned height. And so I was like, you know, bring that tape up to Puff. And he signed him like a month later. What did Biggie say? What did Biggie tape sound like? It's, you could Google it a lot, this demo was there. But now that we're talking about it, I'll mention one of the projects I'm doing. So I just launched this new podcast network. It's called Breakbeat. I got eight different shows going. I mean, of course, aspire to reach levels of success in podcasting that you guys are already doing at an incredible level. So much love and much props for what you guys are doing. Oh, thank you. So with the network, one of the things I'm seeing in podcasting is, you know, I have shows, you know, similar kind of to this visual shows, conversation. One of my first show that's already killing it, you know, is, you know, you guys have had it wrong. I know you've been, you know, supporting her for a long time. It's Don't Call Me White Girl. So that's the first podcast on the Breakbeat network.  Right. People been wanting to hear it for a moment. So shout out to Mona. Yeah, yeah. I just love Mona. I just love Mona. My friend in the studio, man, she needs to be heard. Like, it doesn't seem like every other day one of her little clips is going viral.  Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I think she's... Why you being weird to me? That's the whole Mona Maul, man. I think she's going to be one of the biggest female personalities, period, you know, in the next couple of years. I think she has the talent to really take it to another level. So I'm doing that, but I'm also doing, like, there's a whole other side of podcasting, which is the kind of journalistic, as we were using that word earlier, the journalistic side, which is the storytelling, the audio documentaries and series. That's part of podcasting, has been blowing up the last five years. But when you take a look around there, there's almost nothing for hip-hop in that area of things.  So I'm doing the story of the Unsigned Hype Column as an eight-part series. So you'll be able to hear all those demos. You'll be able to hear the story of how we came up with the column and talked to the different artists and people telling them how they got their deals and all that. So that's an eight-part limited series on Breakbeat that we're producing now. We'll be coming out in a few months. That's gonna be great. Yeah. I mean, you had a very successful magazine, but it was a lot of upset rappers. Man, that's the source. The mics, right? Not that bad. Not that bad. The light is bad. Who had problems with their mics is like, I mean, and nobody come down there. I mean, They came down there. Every now and then, somebody tried to come down and get loud, but it never really went nowhere.  So, yeah, I'm sure there were a lot of people.  Every artist would go into the studio to make their album. And that was their thing. I got to make a five mic album. This is what inspired the best artists in hip hop throughout the nineties to go into the studio. You know. You can't talk about five mics without shouting out my nigga five mics. Ah! Somebody tell me be quiet. Literally unzip that motherfucker. He was like, I'm beneath y'all to be quiet. Nigga, I kicked that nigga 10.   Nigga, when we just pulled up, it was an old homeless nigga conducting traffic. Like he really was supposed to be out there, motherfucker. Hey, I am blue. It made me move to the left, move to the left, move to the right. He had on the vest and everything, but the vest said warrior's game on the back. Oh man, I got to meet him. That's the standard. I got to meet him. Yeah. You on the five? No, I don't think so. Oh man. Five cold motherfucker, man. Okay. You a love five. Link, Link, what's up, man? I will. All right.  Right? I've been doing this thing. I might know him. I don't know. That's the thing. I would have remembered that name though. If I met him, I would remember that. He might not have been a five then.  They changed his life. He can believe in all kinds of great things, though. Yeah. So people, I'm sure different artists, they took it serious. And they wanted it.  Well, who? Tell us later on. I don't, that ain't, I mean, tell me who. And we could bring in the artists.  That's really the start of South and Luke.  The source was behind. I had a relationship with Luke and Jay from the 80s. I'm still cool with those guys to this day. So, you know, started with that.   Now these are, should have been five, should have been five. But it's not like, again, if we were, what you were saying, then we would have given them a three.  You know what I mean? But the source, we were on it. We didn't get it perfectly, but we loved outcasts and we helped push outcasts, you know, in many ways. Yeah, I was taking votes for the mics. Yeah, the mics would be like a group of editors. So one person in there, they was like, give them a half.  I don't like it. Damn it, man. Yeah, I don't see what y'all see. One full mic. One hold out. It's like, it'd be like nine out of 10 Dennis Rick, who always do this.  Don't do it. Don't do it. I wouldn't do it. Give me the half. No, that's funny though. The job really at home. Yeah, serious. We took it serious. We had meetings, you know, listening to sessions and artists would come down. They would bring their albums to the source to play it for us or buy this out to the studio to play it for us and, you know, all that kind of stuff.  It's like, I'm just good to come out for that. Oh man, thank you. Do you know they still in circulation?  Even them being that old. The source?  Because there's no other place to find that information. That information, that source cover, the things we wrote about because that's the other thing. Like the source was the magazine of hip hop music, culture and politics. So we covered, yeah, you bought the magazine. You might've wanna see who got how many mics. You might've wanted to see who was in the unsigned hype. You might've wanted to read an interview with Biggie. But you also were getting social justice before Motherfuckers today was talking about, so we were doing social justice in the source.  We were doing business. We were doing technology. I used to like to do a column with the bars and what they had the whole way. You'd like to go through a version. Hip hop, quotable. Quotable, yeah.  Yeah, people love that. And who do you think had some of the dopest covers for the source? Man, I mean, I have some of my personal favorites. That's what I'm saying. Okay, well the Dr. Dre cover where he has the gun to his head.  Okay, that was just big for the source in a lot of ways because kind of same thing. Like I, you know, Dre had left NWA and people didn't really know what was going on with him. There's all these rumors and stuff. They put out deep cover, you know, on the movie soundtrack in the spring. And that was, you know, but it wasn't no Death Row yet. But you heard Snoop, boom. So I really wanted to know what was going on. And I've been trying to find out and I ended up, you know, getting like an advanced copy of the chronic and you know, was going crazy over it. I'm like, we got to get Dre. You still got it. I wish I did, man. I dance show wish I did.  Somebody somewhere got, but that needs to be preserved. But, but yeah, man. So I went and sought him out. I was like, I got to get him for the cover. I got to go get that exclusive cover. And I ended up calling around, trying to track down Dre. I ended up speaking to Shug Knight, flew out to LA, met with him and worked it out.  So that cover comes out like a month or two before the chronic comes out. So it really helped, you know, push the chronic out and that whole exclusive story in that this is one of the best images of all time, man, that cover. What else? I love the Mary J. Blige cover that our resting piece to Chimo do. He shot her sitting on the ice sculpture in the silver, you know, outfit, sitting on the ice sculpture. That was in maybe 95, I don't know if you remember that, but that cover was really dope. I mean, it was so many. You know, what else? Stacking them hoes in there. Man, I wish I could find, man, man. Yeah.  You saw that, that morning cover was like, I gotta get this one. Couple pop covers.  That make, you know what I'm saying?  That cover, I liked the cover when we had Dr. Dre leave's death row and it was him with the electric chair in the background and he's walking away from it. Like, that was the ill cover. The biggie standing in front of the Twin Towers, you know, King of New York, that's a big cover. So like, you know, the whole, pretty much everything is digital now online. Yes. Like, what type of, what type of advice are you giving people that's coming up who are trying to build a platform like that? I guess you would be considered one of the OGs when it comes to that lane up, you know?  Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. I'm the start of hip hop media and really gave birth to everything, you know, along the way. But I mean, you know, the advice I would give is kind of what I'm trying to do now with this podcast. I mean, Podcast Network, to me, is the new digital magazine. Okay, people have talked about digital magazines for years and years and years and it's never popped off. But a podcast network is the same kind of idea where you have different shows, different subjects, you can have your fashion, you can have some more serious politics and news, you can have, you know, different type of things. And that's like different sections of a magazine and parts of a magazine, you're bringing them to life. So I really believe in the podcasting industry as a whole, you know, that it's gonna grow, you know, even more, you know, in huge amounts over the years, especially as hip hop gets even more deeper into podcasting because we're still just, you know, like I said, scratching the surface and even there's a lot of people who don't even know they have a podcast app on their phone with hundreds of thousands of podcasts that you can listen to with all kinds of information.  We just invite cool motherfuckers to the trap and tell them that they're cool because we didn't get to tell them that.   So shout out to Miller. There you go, shout him out. I've seen what y'all have done for others. Do it for me. Give me one. Cheers to that. I try to give, man, we need some more beers. Give me one. Give me one in there. Give me one in there. I'm just doing some advertising and marketing. Straight. Miller Lite.  Come on. We working on some other ventures also. I've been hearing. I've been seeing a few things. Podcast is a little better than the magazine because you can read it while you driving. Right? You don't have to read it. But that's the whole, we in a more advanced world. So you know. That's all listening. Nevermind. Read them what you is. Kids, don't drink beer. What smoke weed? Wait till you've grown because it tastes better. It don't taste right as a child. Tell the truth, bro. It'll hurt your stomach.  I don't know that. I don't know that to be true. Man, we can talk, I'm a parent of that. My son is pretty. Oh my goodness, man. I have to do a lot of, like this is the hardest part of parenting, right? What do you say? What? He got weed in his bag? My son, though. It's the other parents out there who are not parenting.  Out there trying to offer it to my son. Shit.  It take a village.  Where is he getting it from? He getting it from you, man. You remember that old drug commercial? Where'd you get this from? Yeah, bro. He got it from you, man. I just figured out what those, this is your brain on drugs commercial, man.  I was like, no, it's not.   And had an egg salad. My brain on drugs still know how to cook an egg, man.  I would have never fried this on the side, though.   I'm like, no, that is white people's drugs.   Bro, what made you think, let me ask you a opinion. Why do you think white people love hip hop so much? Wow. Well, I mean, I can tell you first why I love it so much. I don't think. Now you gotta speak for the group on this one. Yeah, you gotta speak for the group. Yeah, you might go, no. Because you can say it from the beginning. How did it find you?  You just heard it in somebody's car. I heard it on the radio. They played it on the radio, it's Rappers Delight. And it's a couple songs like that on radio in DC. That's why. Okay, cool. Yeah. So wait, what's the question now? Why you think white people love hip hop so much? Oh, why do white people love it? I mean, I think it varies.   It's the, you know, most influential, you know, it's just that, you know, it's that space that a lot of people would like to be in and want to get into. And I think, you know, that's part of the appeal. Hip hop is the authenticity and the perceived, at least the perceived authenticity, but, you know, generally just the authenticity of things.  I can remember that here and that and being like, I never thought of it like that, you know, and he was one of the first to, now you hear that all the time, you know, we have whatever, you know. Would your parents say it when you brought that to the table?  Oh my God! I was already in college when that came out, so I didn't have to bring it to them, but. Listen, David. But, you know, hip hop was just, that was an aspect that hip hop was the social and political consciousness that was bringing people together and, you know, helping people to, you know, understand the realities better.  You can't? Hell no. I think you can. We're bold enough to make a song like that. Somebody needs to. They need to do that now.  Man, nobody. They're scurred around it.  So are they? Still, I would. Somebody needs to do that. I got, I'm voting for that right now.  Remake for 2021. We got something close to it.  Rollo, but let them come on.  It's stifling the creativity. Rappers should be able to just rap.  You had to let you know how to rap.    Did not want to be that.   Wait, we digging back. In the history.  What?  Wait a minute. So you just, yeah, I think that might be. Think about how much, but how bad motherfuckers want to do it. We'll just get their reaction. Muffers will show up with a rap crew, some dancers and a DJ forced their way in the party. And would fight if they wouldn't let these niggas rock the party. Yeah.   I don't know. I'll come back next week.   I don't even think you went in.   That was him. Yes, you are. That was him.    Shit.  Straight to the back. Straight to the back. With the start of the show. With the ears tucked in. With no eyes.  Because he's a sucker, that's why.  And do me one favor. You're so credible when it comes to hip hop breads. There's a lot of young, internet people who are like fans of the show, do me one favor and just tell them how dope Koogee rapping is. Oh, I mean, he's one of the coldest Koogee rap. I mean, he's a pioneer because he was really one of the firsts just to bring that kind of reality rap from the East Coast, from New York and do it in a really just, like a vivid storytelling way and a lyrical way he had. He kind of had all of that but he was hard. So he's just, a lot of people rank him as one of their top five or 10 artists of all time. Koogee rap, shout out Koogee rap. Man, you been watching any of these verses? Yeah, I've been watching as many of them as I can. I've been pretty, pretty interesting to see for sure. Clay, when you think hip hop going next as a culture? I feel like it's a lot of stones we ain't turned yet. I don't know man, I feel like everybody blow up and then try to get away from it.    Let me experiment and try to broaden my audience.  You know what I mean? So, we just want you to rap man. Please just rap and good at it, crazy. That ain't good enough. Huh? You got this much here? What you got to do? I don't know. First of all, when you get good at rapping, you got to quit. That seemed to be the first logical step.    I can't do it. I listen to y'all like. I'm out. You got to get so good that you quit. Then you got to come back and then you got a whole run just telling people why you left. Right, right. Yeah, and then you can drop an album. You can drop two albums and then you got to be like because of shit, this one for the game and this one for me. Right. You know what I'm saying? Right. It's the same script. For me, album, that'd be the one. I don't even care what nobody think about this album. Right. It's just me being creative. It's me reaching inside and turning myself all the way inside out and really looking at me. You know, I think this is some of my best work. Introspective. I throw myself to the studio every day on this one. I ain't did that one since my first album. So I used to just be in the car, Sony, listening to the beat. Walk straight in the booth. I ain't wrote nothing.    I guess you Gucci, man. You Gucci, man. You Gucci. So you Gucci. So you Gucci.  Oh, so I guess you Gucci, man. That's the new Rome wasn't built in a day, nigga. Dave, man. So you Gucci, man.  You mean just over the years or? Yeah, just over the years. Because we always talk about the importance of a network and the people that you have around you. Like you could be brilliant by yourself but you gonna need some facilitators who gonna have that vision, who wanna see it all the way through which. Yeah, I mean I've been fortunate to work with a lot of really talented people over the years. That was one thing about me as well was being able to just kind of see talent and also not judge like you could come and be part of the source. You didn't have to have a degree or this type of resume.  So there's all kind of people now that are doing big things in Hollywood now.  He was editor-in-chief at the source. That's what all my Spanish friends call me. Carlito. Carlito is crazy that you mentioned that they literally, that's very bad. Carlito, right here, guys.  Check him out. Shout out to all my Spanish friends. I'm talking about Hispanic and you know. So when I was, he was writing movies and I mean there was a lot of different people. Who are some of the people that you got to see started in this industry and just run it all the way to the top? Oh man. Like you remember their first date? Almost everyone. I mean we were talking about Puff. I met Puff when he actually, when he was an intern at Uptown in like 89 or something like that. I would come down to New York with a bag of magazines and go around to all the record labels and pass out the source and go network with people. And that's where I met him. We got to get Puff on him, man. Yeah, that's where I met him.  We had to do one first when we just talked to him and prepped him. See what's going on. We got to get Puff on the trap. Yeah. But many, many artists and executives that I've known since the beginning of the careers and came through the source or I've had a lot of great relationships fortunate over the years. So yeah, it wasn't never like I didn't have like, my family ended up supporting me, what I was doing after the beginning, like we were talking about earlier at Harvard but people were understanding. But I didn't have like a big network or people backing me or things like that. I did a lot, figured out a lot on my own and just built relationships with other smart people in the business world and learn from them and surrounded myself, like I said, with a lot of really talented people on both the business side and the editorial side of what I was doing. I just heard the camera snap and I was a little high and I was like, I was at Puff. Oh, that was Puff. So I want to talk about what you said about where hip hop is going. Oh, man, watch this. Welcome back to the 85th Sound Show. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. No, we good.  This is like, how you gonna be welcome back if you never left, but it's back though. Right, right. If we can catch him up on all the games we've been spending, man. We got Dave Mays in here with us, you know. Shit, it's so many. You can tell us how you started off with the newsletter. Now we hear again and catch us up and tell, like tell me where you think this game going. All that type of old play. Sure.   You know, you're keeping it.  Like, you know, you might, we'll see, but I hope you guys don't get to that point and be like, oh, I'm gonna leave hip hop and go try a certain other thing. Oh, bro, what do you do? I'm Rick James Leathers. You out of hip hop, man. I've been around these motherfuckers way too long being humble and lame.  I know I'm getting the ponytail. Like, the next day, I'm just gonna flip in the side.  The money is definitely gonna change us, Dave. I'm gonna be real different. But seriously, what you guys are doing beyond just being incredible hosts of this show that people know you guys are business men, you know what I mean? You guys have a company and y'all are doing major things, you know what I mean? So like, you know, to be able to have people like that that actually do care about the culture and do understand the culture, you know, in control of things, you know, that can help us guide the direction of hip hop more. You know what I mean? If there's more like-minded people, so with what I'm doing with breakbeat, if I can get to, you know, close to like a level of you guys, you know what I mean? No, we're coming on now, whatever you need, man. Okay, okay, that's love.  Like you said, like when we started this shit, we going on for seven years now. It wasn't nobody to follow or no necessarily no blueprint, but we did a lot of traveling here and just seeing it work for us. Man, it's been so many different iterations of keeping it going. So- Right, but look at y'all now, man. I know what it takes, you know, what you gotta, you know, the commitment you gotta have and the beliefs you gotta have to stay on it. And we're focused in one lane. We bring a lot of different people in here from hip hop culture to the business side. From what I'm seeing today, like I said, there's a group of you guys too. That's hard to do, like to have good friends and partners, whatever that you can be in business with for long periods of time and, you know, that's, I respect that. That's because we have a yearly Royal Rumble. Okay. Yeah.  All right. So who's been winning that? Most. Welcome back to A-Fighting. What's up? What's up? What's up?   Have a rough sneak beat though. You gotta, if you have any, what's that? Complaints. You gotta put the gloves on. Yeah. That's how we used to do it at the source. We had, people would tell you we had gloves and we had a whole room kind of like this because we were in an office building and had an empty room kind of like this. We used to throw the gloves on and get it in. What the source office was like? Y'all was in there beating on each other. How often y'all went in there? Y'all was in there bitch, right? Oh, yeah.  I was in work with them. Give it five bites right now. No.      But the source office was like the environment you guys have here was just a cool spot. All the cool motherfuckers would come through, come hang out, talk to the writers or the editors of people working at the source.  Like when we opened that office. Yeah. Yeah, people, you know. I'm crazy, I wouldn't even think about that. Yeah.  Y'all was just, you know.   Take recorder. They had to come, man, motherfucker coming out. Pre-paid cell phone men. So who had the best weed they were smoking in there? I don't watch them. Yeah, they had a time where a lot of weed wasn't good. Who had the good weed? What rapper had the loudest weed they can't do there?  And he left forever. Going on tour of Snoop Dogg.  I'm bringing interview back, don't fire me. Don't fire me.  Forgot about him and they was like, I'm back, I got the info.  On the rock, rock, rock tour. You're right. You're right, man. Right, we're breaking news. Let me introduce you to Eli. We gave him your job for the Muslim.  We did have some rogue contributors that they were kind of rogues in the industry again. You want that DMX story? You want it? You don't work here anymore. Listen, man, stop showing up downstairs. Last night, he was at the Coney for four hours, man. I got all the exclusives. Did you know his album's coming out in December? Stop. Give me $200 right now, baby. They don't know you. Don't put my name on it, man.  What do you own? Nothing. Just take the story. I see you in three weeks. You got to get the exclusives, man. That's the hardest exclusive that you had. Like, jump the most hoops.  Right.  That's what people called us. Again, there's no social media. There's no internet. You know, the source is it. You know, that's what people call us. There's no social media. There's no internet. You know, the source is it.  So everybody wanted to cover the source.  So it wasn't hard. Most of the time, you know, the most difficulty I had was with Jay-Z. You know, Jay-Z, you know, whatever the reason, we had agreed to give him a cover. But when we do a cover, we say it's exclusive. You know, we agree. Okay, look, we're going to get the first interview and cover on the source. And then next month, you could come out on other magazines or other things, but we got to have the exclusive. So that's, that was what everybody did every time. And me and Damon Dash had worked out an agreement to put Jay on a cover as an exclusive cover. Jay's album ended up getting pushed back a little bit. Next thing I know, the very, very first issue of XXL Magazine comes out, you know, trying to compete with the source and Jay-Z's on the cover.  Like, you know, we had the exclusive. They're not supposed to be on their cover. I kind of, you know, got into it with, with, with Damon Dash. That's my man. You know, I got much love for Damon. We talk all the time and everything. But you know, we had some disagreement over that. I ended up backing out of the cover. I'm like, I'm not going to do the Jay-Z cover anymore. And I switched it. I forget to somebody else. He got mad. That was one of the times people came down to the office.  Damn Dash? Yeah. Oh man.  I wasn't there.  And you know, just through Cheetos at me. But you know, if things got calmed down, they got brought down to the street and everybody talked and everything was cool. And you know, we've been great friends for years. But that, yeah, that was one of the times where the cover was a little bit tricky. Yeah. Yeah, because we told Jay-Z the same thing. We was like, look, you can come on to the 85 South Shore. But you can't do no other podcast. I look up. He talking to Elliot Wilson. I said, man, wow. He didn't rap right off. Elliot Wilson started at the source. That's my dog too, man. Shout out to Elliot Wilson. He started at the source. You can buy this motherfucker you know too. Did you know that? He started at the source. Elliot. I know now. Yeah. Shout out to Elliot. That's my son. Go out in the paint. That's crazy. This is the thing. He started as he ever, ever rapped anything. Y'all think it's going to be a bigger start in him. He took the game and ran with it. He was still running. Still running. You just can't see the track. We should be like full albums in by now. I wish I waited for us. Come on. Don't talk to me and say this. Okay. Y'all probably already got the album done. I've been the advocate for it. I just feel like we got to flood the streets, man. Need some product out there. Amen.  Let's go. Let's go. I'm going a nice five-year rapper rap. So now you, okay. It's never too late. But I said it earlier. Nigga, you understand. There are more 40-year-olds, Nigga. He's been 20 years. You don't get it. I always tell them to send him to him. He don't never play him. That's why he's stocking up all the beats that these producers have been sending me. When you waiting for the world to end. I said send the beats to my music coordinator. I didn't made up a title for him in every house. It's the problem. We don't need no title, man. Don't you got the beats? Listen to me, man. He is a... Play me some beats somebody sent, bro.  And it better be good. He's a... I haven't been putting up pressure on him. You know how he got good? Because I kept pressure on him. He's about to drop some fire on you right now. He's about to drop some fire. We let the pressure out. He ain't hogging no more. He just ain't. He just ain't.  He stay stuck. No.  You got a question? Right. Yes. My boy. Yeah, man. I mean, we work with so many amazing creators on the art side even. You know, the source was big, you know, with the graffiti movement very early on and a lot of artists that we featured are some of the biggest artists out today. I don't even remember all the names, but Todd James is the one who designed the source logo. And he's like huge in the art world today.  But yeah, Chi was one of my closest friends, you know, who we lost earlier this year. And Chi was just an incredible talent.  I mean, he shot everybody. Wu Tang, he has some of the most amazing photographs of all time in hip-hop that people will always recognize and remember. So yeah, it was a lot of dope, you know, a lot of dope creatives, photographers, art directors, you know, of course writers. You know, I discovered Aaron McGruder of the Boondocks. He was doing the Boondocks in the comic strip. It started in a newspaper at the University of Maryland. What's that? No, I said, shout out to everybody to make the Boondocks.  Aaron started, Aaron McGruder, he was doing it in the University of Maryland newspaper. And I came home to D.C. from college, you know, or from New York, wherever it was. It was in the 90s, so it had been from New York. And I got a copy of the newspaper and I seen the comic strip in there. And I contacted him and made a thing to put him in the source. So he was in the source for a few years before he got his newspaper deal and of course then the TV shows and things like that. Tyson Beckford, you know, the first supermodel of hip-hop, you know, we discovered him. He was just playing basketball on a street, you know, on the playground in New York and one of our art directors walked by and said, you know, we're starting. We're doing a fashion photo shoot for the source magazine, you know, you want to be in it. And that was how he got his first modeling thing and he went on and did, you know, did a lot of, opened a lot of doors and, you know, one of the... He been on Bled TV talking that shit, you see? Right, right. He got some stories for that. He talked about the source. Shout out to Tyson, man, that's love.  A lot of times people don't always, you know, remember that. But Tyson's a real one. You know how that should be. People ain't going to give you the credit you deserve. They're going to act like they was already on. A few, a few will. Yeah, most of them. We're trying to celebrate everybody. See what I'm saying? What it be, sir? What you waiting on?  Turn it down. Turn it down. A little bit more.  You done turned it. That's not another song. It's Halloween. It was only 15 seconds. Is it Halloween? Oh. Marina Jones? All right, let me see what he's talking about.   Right?  Turn it off. You know what?  All right. Turn it off. You're playing it too much. So wait a minute. I don't know what just happened. We need more than that. He said some beats. But they're like 11 seconds long. So once you start getting into one, it's gone. It goes to another one. It goes to another one. You like that one? Is this a long one? All right.  You see what it takes? You got to show them that there's other motherfuckers out there. Now you got all this beat. Hold on, wait. I got some beats.  Oh, man. Damn. So what's coming up, Dave? Man, this whole breakbeat network is really what I'm on right now. What y'all need over there? Real excited.  We need the 85 South Show. Come on over, partner up. We need, you know. We need, you know.  We probably can kick it real hard. Some collaborations, yeah. We got all types of collaborations.  I want in, man. 85 South. How about we do one where we just bring producers and they just play beats? The whole beat.  It ain't. It's too much talking in the game. That could work. That could work.  Sometimes people might go, Why would you have a breakbeat network and not just have one channel that just plays straight beats? All right. All right. Well, we on it. That's our first project. I want in. All right. And I want to pop in like every 30 minutes. We're like, hey, yo, this is Carlos Miller. You listening to these beats on breakbeat. That's all we need. That's all we need. Just have you pop in. That's what I'll contribute. Okay. And we'll build it up. I'm not even going to charge you when I've been charging everybody else because we got the network.   So breakbeat, you know, it's a podcast network. I got eight different shows. I mentioned a couple of them. I got fucking. Now. Now. Now. Now. Now. TME for your name. Come on. I'm hosting a flagship show. I'm the breakbeat man. Dundee. Dundotta. You want to be like the next type of voice? You want to get this. You want to be associated with it like? Damn. You want to be that dude?  Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Thank you back to the music.   Wow. I couldn't get to you guys You guys are you know, it's never strange. It's never strange. There's always people, you know It's never too late man never too late to figure it out man.  It's the first time his family is gonna participate in the telling of his story Yeah, it's you know, very much needed that this man's story get told and Hopefully we can help change some of the public perception of him which could help get him home I got the free Larry project free Larry who project you can look it up on Instagram Sure sure yeah, definitely would love to talk about Larry Hoover I mean Larry Hoover like you said people know his name. It's it's a legendary name But you know what most people really know about him or he's the founder of the gangster disciples and he's one of the biggest You know criminals of all time or whatever that type of thing is what the media has given us about Larry Hoover and the law enforcement narratives that have been put out about him But Larry Hoover is you know started the gangster disciples in the late 1960s Grew it throughout the 70s while he was in prison. He's been in prison since 1973 and He was in state prison and he grew the organization to one of the largest You know gangs in the country, but he went through a transformation in like the late 70s Where he you know kind of you know Just realize he had to change the whole direction of gangster disciples He renamed it growth and development and he began putting out, you know documents writing, you know Memorandums and giving out orders of how to change how the whole direction that the organization was going to change You know sending guys who were getting out back out on the streets to start, you know organizing in the communities And then he got into politics In the late 80s early 90s, you know, he started something called 21st century vote Which was a political organization in the Chicago area that got really really influential a lot of major Politicians had to come to them, you know to get it try to get endorsement or align with them to get elected They were running candidates.  So he ends up getting indicted on a federal indictment, you know get six life sentences And you know, he's been in the ADX supermax prison over 25 years. That's where they currently have El Chapo the unabomber. I mean he does 23 and one for 25 years Doesn't get to talk to anybody. They don't let them do no interviews He barely, you know gets to see his family. No physical contact and I mean, it's just a situation They say for that. What's the they don't say they don't even give I mean They technically with the criminal justice reform acts that have gone on the first step act and in the last few years He has qualified to be released legally, but the judge Judge made him wait a year to give a ruling And then when he came out a year later, he said, yeah Technically he's supposed to get out But I just feel like he has too much power to do something bad, you know that I can't let him out some Some bullshit basically So they just have always, you know feared him when the fact is if he were to get out, you know He would have a positive effect on helping to curb violence and things like that I believe for a lot of reasons, you know when they locked Larry Hoover up in 1996-97, you know, they said oh now You know, we're gonna stop all this crime and all this violence that Larry Hoover's been causing you know, they made him out to be a monster and You know, here we are 25 years later I mean, we all see what's going on in Chicago, you know, everywhere really But you know, we see those numbers how many people getting shot kill boom boom boom, you know in Chicago every week You know, so it's definitely not gotten any better Yeah, you gave that energy some guidance Yeah, there's a lot of people I mean Larry Hoover has changed thousands of people's lives, too I mean, I've met now a lot of these people guys who went to jail, you know doing bad You know, whatever, you know, whatever they were doing that got them into into prison and then learn the teachings of Larry Hoover And totally have changed their lives. I mean thousands of young men and women Maybe more. Yeah, you're right. I've turned their lives around for that. Nobody talks about that So that's why I'm so, you know passionate about telling his story. I'm so honored that you know, the family, you know Larry, Jr. Was he was with me here in Atlanta the last couple of days. That's what I was saying and he had him and his wife They had to leave Last night, but he was gonna come down here with me. He wanted me to you know, say what's up to you guys And if you do want him cut come down here, he would love to do it.  Thank you. I told you what I want to do Yeah, we're gonna put that together immediately. Well, look man, I know this your first time in the trap. Yeah Don't let it be your last time. Come on, man I won't have a great time man.   Did you make it over there? I have not made it there I really want to go see it because I love what I've seen and heard I talked to tip about it You know when he first got it going and yeah, I think I think it's great. I got to get over there and see it though Yeah, you definitely got to check it out. You know Atlanta is it's on the pulse of the culture So many moments have been right here as far as this is that, you know, ever say New face. Yeah, I called him. He was coming up here all the magazines. He probably got every by the Historian, okay. Yeah He probably has every physical copy of the source keeper. He's the hip-hop holder. It's hard to find And see they was at the moment so you can talk about the moment you was at man Well, I'm also launching my own podcast So that's also a way because I was always, you know, this behind-the-scenes type of guy Yeah, just wasn't the guy that wanted to be out in the limelight and get the attention I was about business and building something and you know, I didn't really care about all that Now I just feel like it's the right time for my voice to be heard a little more, you know Conversations with people and people get a better insight of things for me Just from my experiences and and the type of conversations that I I think I can have with a lot of People that I've known in the business, you know, you know from the beginnings of their careers and You know, but I want to bring you guys on to my podcast and come to y'all say less turn to turn Yeah, I know you got like so ODB walks in right to 40 In an ounce of red Episode three Rest in peace though, Db. Yes, what you doing? New face outside Let's see what let's see what he got See how you see speak them up.  We've got dropping like we check the bag. You didn't hey Did we check the bags?  What's that right there? Let me hear something Put the marriage a blood We need a little happy marriage We're dropping the app to show That's why I was talking about With train market, huh? It's out That's that's incredible congratulations on that to those Oh Man, it's just Taking the platform to the next platform. That's it. It's like that's it now. We need our own platform That's how all out. No, that's how we can answer that question about where hip-hop is going We can have a little more say so in that right Yeah, I'm about to sign my first artist I'm looking to get into the music industry Okay tell Once you pop that 85 stop album off, then you're gonna doors are gonna be open for whatever you know Yeah, I'm gonna try to get one artist in every job. You're gonna do a compilation Cadillac motel Remember powder pee Like the motel compilations. I remember this. I can't remember powder pee No, the white dude who was rapping at the end of that cowboy song Nice powder pecan to get a 12 gauge What was that bone thug song where they was rapping like cowboy? Anybody know I Feel like they had a little research department error. They went through what it was Can look up that bone thug. It's motel. They were rapping. They was a cowboy song They were early on that country. Yeah, I wouldn't watch the cowboy movie if it was bone thug Get old cowboys the cowboy Yeah, I mean now somebody go and find powder pee verse. I would have watched the since Clayton want to have amnesia today Can we play it?  There you go New face Larry Compton That's my guy new face man. Okay everywhere. This is the ultimate hip-hop order I heard you talking about your break beast network. Yeah, this is either Batman. Okay, what you got new face He brought some things New faces there. There you go. That's what it is. New faces here.  Oh, that's that's that's that cover right there. That cover is crazy So that's the cover. It's the one ill that cover. Yeah, that cover is crazy Oh, that's hard too. Yeah. So you are was kicking some stuff. That was after I left Red man.  Oh boy. That's another one. That's one of my favorites right there. Yeah, that was the hot boy The hot boys I remember that. Yeah Yeah, that was dope cover Shout out L, man. I just talked to L, man Yeah, that was the one at the jackie gleason theater on south beach Man, that was that was dope that first Miami one Jesse Jackson was at the source of one at the Miami Jackson is the Miami way crazy You should have got Michael Jackson in the source. Two guys were trying.  Nice to meet you. Give five mics on one song. This is dope, man. Thanks for bringing these by Yeah, yeah So I told you that's one face.  We was really just buying them in their time Yeah, really. I didn't know it was coming. I did The bad signal was already To show you man that we are so deep and invested in the culture and we've been following your work and you've got some fans over here And we appreciate your contribution 85 South show we out of here Let's get a flick. Amen. Hold on. We're gonna get a flick I need one on my phone


when you're six foot ten, even the car park won't let you in. Check this out. Oh, okay, okay, I'll go back. Where else can I go?


The point I'm making is that it's a very big difference to say did he exist and maybe he did maybe he didn't who cares really or as That's very different from saying that a miracle worker right who really did do miracles rather than country intrigues existed Yeah, was Jesus just a good teacher who lived a long time ago Was he a crazed Nazarene who claimed divinity was he a swindler who convinced the masses to believe in him? Was he merely a radical crucified for his trouble? Is he God? Who is Jesus to you? Well, the better question is who is Jesus because what you believe about Jesus doesn't change the reality of who he is in John 14 6 he said this I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the father except through me Jesus today is inviting you to see him as he truly is so that you can see yourself as you truly are He is all you'll ever need and hopefully one day he'll be all you'll ever want follow for more Christ centered content And help support my ministry on patreon