It's a wild night out there, so a big shout out to a few who came in on their bikes, believe it or not, this evening. So fair play. The title of the event this evening is Green Europe, What Place for Sustainable Agriculture. I'm Eamoney Vraenon. Some of you will know I present the talk show on local radio, KCLR Live. It's on 10 to 12. And one of the big stories today in the media is actually cold play, believe it or not. And they're not touring because of climate change fears. So Chris Martin has said he is to try and find a new way to promote his album. So that's just something I'm going to put out there.  We have a fantastic line up of speakers. And we're going to cover a range of topics. We want it to be lively. We're going to invite you to engage with them, to ask questions, and you will have an opportunity to quiz them. So bear with us. We're going to let them have their say first. And then if there's something that you feel we haven't covered, I'll let you come in. It's not about bamboozling you with scientific facts. It's not about lecturing you or there's a term out there now, farm shaming. It's about figuring out our journey. We're all figuring it out and we're trying to see what steps we need to take because climate change is real. We, the citizens of Ireland, have spoken. We have demanded change. And this was seen recently in the European and local elections. And it's now seen with young people out on the streets. The young people who are out, I've spoken to lots of them. They feel there's a gap. There's a gap between them and me. And there's a gap between them and their parents, their grandparents. They think perhaps that Greta Thunberg is their inspiration. Their parents might feel otherwise. Their grandparents might feel they had a less wasteful approach to all of our resources. So lately, as you all know, there's been a spotlight on agriculture. The need for the sector, especially for the Irish ag sector to cut greenhouse gases. Many of you talked to me about Philip Boucher Hayes' documentary on RT1 recently. And a lot of our listeners, as it happens, they're predominantly from rural backgrounds, their farmers. And they feel they've been unfairly targeted. That we need to look at industry. We need to look at the behaviour of multinationals. That we need to look at the bigger picture outside of Ireland. So let's find out what our panel thinks. Let me introduce them to you. You may know them already. But we have the chairperson of the Iraq Disagriculture Committee to my left here. He's also a Finagwale TD for this area, Pat Dearing. He's served in this constituency as a TD since 2011. Also a very active member of the IFA, so Pat, you're very welcome. And Pat's constituency colleague, Bobby Ailward, also joins us. Bobby is a Finafol TD for this area. Spokesperson, junior spokesperson for farming and skills. He's also from south of the county. So when I call him for an interview, he's either out in a field somewhere or he could be in Lenster House, so he's got the farming background as well. And it's lovely to meet in person tonight, Dr Pippa Hackett. She was elected as a senator for Leisha Offoli very recently, actually. And it was the green wave. Some of you may realise has reached Offoli because Pippa was elected to Offoli County Council for the Green Party in the last local elections. So I'm sure it's been a real baptism of fire. She's highly qualified academically in the area that we're going to talk about tonight.  And she lives on a mixed organic farm keeping suckler cows, sheep, hens and horses. Also with us tonight, we have Pat O'Keefe. He's the corporate affairs director with Glombia Ireland. And Pat, you may be very familiar with this byline. Hard for me to believe it's a few years since he's been writing for the farmer's journal because he spent 17 years there. So he was very accomplished, very well respected as a reporter and he was deputy editor there. He's from East Cork, but we're not going to hold that against him tonight. You're very welcome to Kilkenny Pat. And later you will see Professor Frank O'Mara will be joining us on the stage. He's enroute from Dublin. He's at another event this evening. He's director of research at Chogos since 2009. I'm really looking forward to hearing his contribution because he's responsible for leading the research programme. So that's every aspect of agri food research from soils to consumers and an annual budget of 67 million euro. He lectured previously in UCD for 13 years. So we're going to start with some opening questions. I have a question each for each of our panellists tonight before we move on to a broader discussion and then we'll very much welcome your input from the floor. So I'll start with you Pat. You're used to having the heat on you so you're not too worried. You're well prepared for tonight. Pat, we wanted to ask you about mitigating the worst effects of climate change. It's going to require change. And recently we saw with the ESB's announcement they closed two peat burning plants in the midlands. How do we ensure that the workers in these jobs are protected and your Iraq this committee discussed recently the establishment of the Just Transition Task Force. Is this something you're in favour of? Absolutely. I think it's important that there will be by and by everybody going forward. I'm a member of the Climate Action Committee as well which over a number of months last year put together a report which fell into the all government plan which was produced a number of months ago now at this stage. I think we're the only country in Europe at the moment that has a plan going forward. But it's very important, going back to your question, it's very important that there will be a task force together going forward. There's going to be change. We see in the last number of weeks in Pippa's area in particular where you mentioned the board in the morning substantial change coming down from regard and we must be ready for those change going forward. From that culture perspective our culture is the largest indigenous industry in this country. I think it's unfair to kind of equate it with other countries like for example Germany which is a very industrial country or Britain for example, a very industrial country compared to ourselves. It's our largest indigenous industry. 130,000 people are employed in our culture directly in Ireland. Indirect is probably 300,000 people. We're a food producing country. We produce enough food in this country to feed 50 million people which is a huge achievement. I think from that point of view in the event that change is coming and change will come I think there's no doubt that every farmer matter who you talk to, I'm a farmer myself, farmers have to be part of the solution, not part of the problem going forward. But they have to be bought along the journey. Very similar to everybody else. And the journey is going to be difficult in some ways but there's going to be a cost involved in that as well and there is no doubt that going green is costly and we see in the last period of time that the cost involved in this as I've said before and I'll say again especially from a farming point of view we see during the year the difficulties in the beef sector we cannot go green if we're in the red. I think it's a very important point. What that means is that farmers are not getting paid for what they produce. They cannot afford to move to the next stage. So in saying that I think the crucial thing going forward is going to be the next cap which is presently being negotiated. It is going to be a change cap for what we were used to in the past but at the same time the farmers have to go along the journey. I think there has to be a huge element of communication with all people going forward. I think there's been and I would have to be critical of farmers and farm organisations, maybe politicians in the past for not communicating what has been done or the past number of years. In previous caps a lot of very, very good initiatives were introduced such as the Rep scheme for example which was a very, very good initiative or the past number of years where water courses and farms were cleaned up, hedge roads were developed and so on and they are hugely beneficial for the future of farming and development of farm land and maintenance of farm land for the future. Okay, thank you Pat. Senator Pipa Hackett, we want to ask you about how climate change is at the forefront of all of our minds and to some it feels the change, we know how important it is but it can feel like it's insurmountable that making all of the changes. When it comes to ag, given your own farming background what are the steps that you think that every farmer could take to lower their carbon footprint? Thank you, it's great to be here tonight. I suppose we actually do constantly hear the negatively framed narrative that how much is going to cost us to go green, what is the cost of climate action, can we afford to make the necessary changes? I think the good news for many farmers is that actually lowering their carbon footprint off their farms should be relatively pain free and should actually, if done correctly, save the money and perhaps even earn them extra money so farm income really for me is the important thing. I think a lot of farmers as we were we converted to organic farming about eight years ago and we felt very tied down to the same farm routines listening to the same sort of advice and there was little opportunity or incentive to break away from that norm model of farming and this was really one of the main reasons we decided to convert to organic farming, fair enough the scheme was open which was the enticement and the incentive necessary but it definitely gave us the sense that we were in charge of our farms and that we took charge of it so we didn't really have that sort of guilt of we missed the date to get the fertilizer out or we didn't spray the nettles in time we just sort of got on with it and it was up to us, we thought further ahead and we used that to our advantage in a weird way I suppose our neighbours it was a bit of a talking point oh god they've gone organic and we're going backwards and it was perceived as negative or maybe unkempt looking fields because we have a few nettles and docks and so forth growing but it's more accepted now so it's about having a different view about how we farmer land and what we do with it now I'm not here to just promote organic farming but I'm more about to tell you the lessons that we have learnt and even now if we were to be conventional farmers again we probably wouldn't change anything that we have been doing for the last 8 years because it works for us it works for any farmer to try and lower their carbon footprint on any farm is to look at your farm accounts see where your outgoings are see where your incoming amounts are because we can't do very much about the price we're getting for our product but the only thing you can control are the expenses you put inside your farm gate you put 100% control over that so think about that where you could make the adjustments do you have really high diesel bills is there something you could do to restrict the amount of tractor work you do do you have have you a huge outlay on nitrogen fertilizer or whatever fertilizer you're using is there an option there to really cut that back I mean if you're a beef farmer and you're only getting 3.45 or 3.50 it's creeping up by all accounts but I'll wait and see how that pans out but if you're only getting that amount for your beef cut your fertilizer right down I would because you're not getting paid for it and you're spending money to actually lose money so cut your costs so I mean that would be a very broad sweeping way of looking at practically at where to reduce the costs same for things like veterinary inputs if you have very high veterinary inputs are they due to tough calvings or are you calling vets out for caesarians and so forth or we actually converted to organic we changed our breeds we had been generally sort of shallowly crosses we had suffix as our sheep and we changed our stock bull and we changed our rams and you know within a couple of years you've actually changed the whole profile of your herd or your flock and we went for easier calving smaller animals we went for more native breeds we went for ones that could manage outdoors without having to be sort of tended to 24-7 so it had certain resilience built into them one thing I will say I know we'll probably come back to it and I've a whole pile of stuff written here but farmers should sign up to every agri-environmental scheme you can I do have my doubts about the merits of some of them but still they're there and if they do or whether they don't do exactly what they say on the tin your likelihood is you will increase your farm income it might be only by a small amount but it's still money in your pocket and your emissions might well go down so you will be lowering your carbon outputs I mean it's disappointing to see the relatively low uptake from farmers on the recent beam scheme that's for any farmers or any non-farmers that's the beef exceptional aid measure which was brought in as a support due to the uncertainty of Brexit that money wasn't all you know taken up so I mean that sends back a really bad message you know so apply for the schemes a lot of them are that one was particularly easy to apply for and you can sign your name and send it in there are certain farmers who feel it's not worth the effort it's too much it's too restrictive and that but I mean if you really genuinely feel that then you're probably not in need of the scheme at all sign up for the schemes I'll leave it at this just to think that farmers on the whole need to start thinking about their land in a different way it's not just this innate thing that's there just to that we pump full of fertilizer to maximise production because that's very costly and it's also damaging the land it's damaging your soil and it's probably not helping your wider biodiversity and finally for me any measure which gives me back more time in my life has to be a saving so quality of life is very rarely factored in to any farm figures or any equations that we get some people may never run out of money but we will all eventually run out of time I'll do me thank you okay we've lots of I definitely have and I'm sure our audience do have lots of questions coming from that so we'll definitely be coming back to Pippa shortly on some of those issues Pat O'Keefe, we've heard on T Shuckly of Radker speak about his own personal decisions to opt for a meatless Mondays we're increasingly seeing consumers incorporating incorporating vegan into their diet vegetarian meals etc how is Glanbia reacting to this or trying to guide consumer behaviours as a consequence of the challenges posed by climate change thank you Ymer and thanks Q to the organisation for the invitation and it's been touched on already in your introduction I think certainly farmers in Ireland feel under siege at the moment in terms of the narrative around vegan and I suppose in your question you say how is Glanbia changing I mean ultimately the consumers always right in the sense of Glanbia as a company has to respond to consumer demand and provide consumers with what they ask for what they demand so we're well known obviously as a dairy company but again since 2010 there's been a food-grade oats plant in Port Leish and farmers in Kerala and Kilkenny have been growing oats so recently we launched a porridge product with dairy and oats and gluten free product grown from this part of the country and that's there's going to be new innovations in that same sphere because again we have great oats grown in Ireland that we can build on and that's going to be a great innovation product that will be plant-based alternatives with the last number of years in the US for example our best known product in the US is gold standard whey which is obviously a dairy product but there's a plant-based alternative for that so if the consumer says I want that brand but I want a plant-based version you give the consumer that option so you don't rule out a consumer I suppose from a dairy perspective and again I think we have a job of work to do to educate consumers more to inform choice if they choose to go elsewhere for their nutrients that's their choice but I do have a problem and we saw a bit of this last week with people being misled on the nutrient advice by unqualified people and there's no one getting into debates about that specifically other than the fact that nutrition is a crucial thing in every child and every adult's well-being so we can't mess with it so in other words dairy can put its credentials forward and make its case as a nutrient other products should likewise set out the facts in a very clear way and then we need healthy diets based on scientific and based on factual advice if I say anything about primary I have a vested interest that's a fact because I have a vested interest in the glambia perspective but I don't believe in misleading people in terms of the nutrient content so I think that's really important I mean at the moment there's a lot of noise as well about calling products meat or calling them milk and again I think Europe is probably better than other areas that are tightening up on that in terms of clarity because consumers I'm a scientific background but when you go into a supermarket and look at the shelf it's very confusing all the noise, all the stuff claims, natural, wholesome, gym free it's very hard organic the whole thing has become very blurred for consumers who are not scientists I think companies have a responsibility very clear I suppose from an Irish farmer point of view we have to tell our story better also in schools in a factual way and I agree with Pippa in terms of the nutrients I don't like her language just to pick up in terms of farmers pumping their soil with fertilizer because again that's kind of provocative language inferring that one particular system and it's that kind of language and I don't mean to be zoning in it but organic is a very good system conventional farming is a very good system and we shouldn't be knocking one or the other and I'd much prefer a kind of a less of the sort of knocking one system and saying look I'm proud of what I do this is how I produce my food and I'll stand over it like our farmers we've 400,000 farmers who produce milk some of them are here in the audience they're very proud of what they do, they're very passionate they have to be ordered by Borby a Diff to stand over their food organic producers are really passionate about what they do and likewise they have to stand over what they produce and I think both of them should extend and I think we're starting to see it a little bit talking together rather than talking at each other because a lot of the conventional farmers now tell me they want to learn more about biodiversity we have a programme we're involved in Cork and I'm drifting off the question a little bit but the bright programme what would be perceived as intensive dairy farmers are involved in a programme to improve the amount of wildlife on their farm about biodiversity and it's working very well but it's a pilot programme scale and fairness to the farmers involved they got the money, we need to build on that we need to do way more in terms of we ffinsed off the rivers through reps a number of years ago we need to build on that now in terms of more riparian zones to protect the water courses there's a whole lot we can do but I think I want to start talking together rather than talking at each other and sort of one system is better than the other the consumers bamboozled we need to be honest with them, set out the facts of the products and have an honest conversation about food and not be sort of slamming one product I mean it's not helpful I think from a consumer education point of view in terms of informing the choices OK, thank you very much some very interesting points there we're going to move on to Bobby Aylward Ffinnifall Deputy Bobby the implications of Brexit the possible ramification of the Mercuser trade deal it's all adding up to what might be described as a perfect storm for the Irish beef sector and with the need to combat climate emissions added into that mix what can we do to protect the sector's competitiveness there's no doubt about it Brexit is coming down the road there's nothing we can do about it we have to accept it that's a democracy decision by the people of Great Britain and they decided they want to pull over Europe so we have to accept that as we all know we produce 90% of the beef we produce and beef I talk about in particular now we produce in this country is exported we export enough to feed 30 million people and there's only 5 million people in this country and unfortunately 50% of that beef goes directly into Great Britain so we have a problem coming down the line and then we have the Mercuser deal which is another problem and I don't think that deal should have been signed over it's not fully signed up to yet but it's moving that way and it looks like the deal is going to go through so it's my belief that we should have a set and Minister Michael Creed has said that he will commission an impact assessment honoured I think that impact assessment should have been carried out before it was ever even contemplated an agenda on the Mercuser deal and agreeing with it to see what kind of an impact this Mercuser 99 new ton of beef coming into this country and there's already on 75,000 ton of beef coming in from South America from the country of South America and to add another 99,000 ton on top of that it's going to have serious consequences for us in this country and the whole of Europe at the moment with Britain we're self-sufficient of 102% beef so we're 2% over what we eat in beef in Europe when Britain pulls out which should happen shortly within the next couple of months will be 160% self-sufficient so we have 16% of more beef than we're taking than we're consuming at the moment now we're trying to get markets in other places like China etc and we're trying to get markets all over the world small at the moment and get open up these markets and get into these new areas we're going to have serious problems and that's why I think this impact assessment should have been carried out first I know France are very angry over this extra beef coming in and didn't just beef the chicken as well and pig meat as well under this agreement and it's my understanding that the reason why of course international trade agreements has to be part of life but my understanding is that the care industries in Europe want to get access to Europe into South America and this is why this world trade agreement has been taken place so look at Germany who has produced our cows want to get their cows and we'll travel cow and emissions and cows and geese you know what that is and they want to get them over there so we have to do likewise a trade give them access so we can get access to their markets then we have traceability we are scrutinised here in Ireland a traceability system in place where we know our beef our quality beef where it comes from every animal that's killed anyone can trace it back within half an hour where it came from what farm it came from have we the same traceability in South America will the standards be the same will the beef be the same standards as we have here if not should it be allowed in and these are questions that need to be asked and I think these are questions that need to be assessed France as I said we are very angry over this extra beef in Ireland they are about the traceability and we have like-minded countries that we should be talking to to see is this a good deal and is this a good deal for beef so you know the cattle emissions we are responsible for as I say we farmers are responsible agriculture is responsible for 33% of the greenhouse gases emissions at the moment oh yes they are more with my colleagues three or four colleagues best are in the climate change and how we are going to go forward in agriculture 2030 under the greens in agriculture we have to get a reduction of 10% to 15% reduction in agriculture how we are going to marry that we are going to increase our health as this happened 20% to 30% more dairy cows in the last four years since the big quotas were lifted and there is a big demand for more products and more beef and 2050 there is a maintain we need three times more agricultural product to feed the world at that stage so we have to marry our list together I think farmers are and there are a few members here today and I spoke to them several times during the year they are all willing to play their part and they are means and they are explaining to us means how it can be done and there is a terrible research that is going on now we are spreading slurry the collage we are spreading up there if you stitch it in the ground you can see many thousands of emissions by doing the hello on we are even talking about dietary for animals genomics with a little breed of animals not as big an animal lesser maintain gas can be passing and that kind of thing so there is a lot of means there and that is only a few of my charts and ways of reducing greenhouse gases in farming down to 15-20% 10-15% is targeted for farming in the next 10 years that is what we have to do and I think we will reach that with a good smart management smart farming so I think that is the way to go thank you very much Bobby Ellworth you are very welcome Professor Frank O'Mara thank you very much for being with us you have said recently that Irish agriculture can reduce its greenhouse gas emissions in the national herd how is this possible when we see the government's climate change advisory council suggesting a cut in the suckler herd of over 53% ok well good evening unfortunately apologies to all the audience my co-panelists here and the IIA for my later arrival I was down the country at a training event for co-op board members and executive members on this very topic and I can tell you the interest was huge among those people about it so it was hard to get out of the room in time but look Bobby I think has alluded to the complexity of this we often look at things in one dimension we have to reduce greenhouse gas emissions there are loads of other things we have to do as well we have to improve water quality we have to improve biodiversity but also the world the population of the world is going to grow by about 2 billion but in the next 30 years they have to be fed farmers have to make money things have to go on at the one time and just it's often hard or wrong to kind of just pick out one problem and say this is why we deal with that without looking at the consequences on the other but having said that you've asked the question and the climate change commission was set up by the government to kind of you know give independent to oversight and advice to the government as to what it was doing and what options might be available to it and one option they looked at for agriculture as to how it might achieve a 30% reduction in emissions was to cut the national error now when they did that they didn't take into account and it wasn't like I'm not saying the study was flawed or anything like that but they just looked at how many numbers would you need to drop to get that reduction there are other ways to get that reduction there are ways through mitigation that I talk about in a second so that was one particular scenario they looked at the government in the meantime then has come along and having consulted with all the stakeholders and the citizens assembly on climate change the report of the giant the rock does committee and so on and taken all that information into account came forward with the climate action plan to get Ireland on track to meet its obligations in the 2021 to 2030 period and in that as Bobby just said and I'm sure others may have said it before I got here Ireland has our agriculture in Ireland has a target to reduce its emissions by sort of 10 to 15% there's a range given and suppose it depends where you start from the analysis that we have done in Chagos looking at the mitigation options that are available things that farmers can do right now to reduce emissions shows that we can achieve that level of reduction if we adopt those emissions so that's why I've said we can avoid a reduction in the national herd and still meet the targets that are set for agriculture in the climate action plan the big if after that if we adopt the mitigation measures and we need to adopt them soon as well you know we can't wait until 2028 and 2029 this has got to start now because it's not a target to reach in 2030 we actually have targets in 2021 2022 every year so the things Bobby has done a great job about lining some of them there you know there's the way we spread our slurry and I suppose in developing what we call mitigation options these are things we mean to reduce greenhouse gas emissions we've been very conscious of trying to develop workable solutions things that won't cost an arm and a leg for farmers things that can actually be applied that are reasonably practical so one of them is the trailing shoe it's a different way of spreading slurry instead of, as Bobby said trolling it up into the air you get a lot of alatolisation that's the greenhouse gas going off up into the air instead of that trickle down along the ground or injected you get better value out of the slurry in terms of the subsequent grass growth the other big thing that we're suggesting or one of the other big things is the type of fertilizer that we use farmers need to use fertilizer to grow grass nitrogen is one of those fertilisers the form of nitrogen that we use in this country is called CAN calcium ammonium nitrate that's the one we mainly use if we switch that to urea we get a big drop in greenhouse gas emissions because that can about 1% that goes off up into the atmosphere has a very very powerful greenhouse gas called nitrous oxide is 300 times more powerful of the greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide so even 1% of it going up into the atmosphere is hugely damaging from a climate by the view switching to urea negates most of that the problem is just a straight switch to urea is you're swapping one pollutant for another urea emits a lot of ammonia which is another gas not a greenhouse gas but another harmful gas so there's a form of urea called protected urea that doesn't emit the ammonia and still gives you the benefit of the reduced greenhouse gases so that's another solution that farmers can adopt there's then good farming practice like running your herd as efficiently as possible making as much use of grass as you can incorporate and clover in your pastures and reduce the nitrogen as a result so there's a number of items there's no one silver bullet there's a number of actions that farmers can take to reduce the emissions and if we do that that's how we can square the circle and are farmers doing that at the moment are they taking up those ideas and running with them now or is it a slow uptake well look certainly some of them are going to be a slow uptake like the switching of fertilizer type that's a new thing and none of us like change if I said to people there now go home tonight and say to your wife your husband or your partner you want to sleep on the other side of the bed tonight and see the reaction you'll get to that no one will like change but I think the protected area that's slowly becoming I suppose in farmers conscience this is something they can do I think farmers have shown over the years a great ability to take up technology when it's proven by Chogysg and it's easier to implement and it's supported by government I mean it doesn't have to be all farmers and fairings I'm 45 years of age working in the agricultural sector since coming to college I've seen huge amount of technology like the EBI I mean that was a new technology breeding index for cows that farmers brought in a lot of farmers are crying out for more research from Chogysg to say can I use more clover will I have problems how do I use it properly we brought out a solar scheme this year in terms of an opportunity for farmers to reduce their electricity bills to reduce their carbon footprint to heat the water for their dairy we've 600 farmers expressed interest like we've 4,500 milk players 600 signed up straight away now they haven't all put in solar panels but they've expressed interest so in other words they put a hand up and say I'm willing to invest now they want government support to help to make that transition no different than the grants for retrofitting energy technology with the right support from the likes of Chogysg but also government support and solar policy needs central government policy that encourages farmers we've seen it in Europe where good policies from simple governments you've had bioenergy, you've had biogas across Germany, France there's a load of things we can do better from a policy perspective that will drive the change and farmers and fairness to them are always very adaptable and willing to adapt and write a check to new technology OK, you said something earlier Pippet about the poor uptake in the beef scheme in the beam scheme why do you think that is any idea or maybe that maybe I don't know, I've spoken to different farmers I visited a group of dairy farmers in Eastcork last year and I actually asked just listened mainly and I asked one of the questions was I said are you any of you using glass in the glass scheme and they weren't because it was going to be too prohibatory it was going to restrict what they did so there's a problem with the scheme if it's not even engaging with farmers who could engage with it maybe they you could question maybe what's in the scheme itself but I mean we talk about looking for better markets for beef and so forth, well more markets I mean there's no point opening up a market to China if it's still only going to pay 50 a kilo, that's no good to our Irish farmers now I wasn't actually slamming conventional farming I was trying to pass off the wisdom I have learned from organic farming I'm educated as an agriculturalist in the very traditional way and I was fascinated when I was at university learning about it and the efficiencies and all of these things that can be brought in but I mean the plain and simple fact is I think even if we do apply all the roadmap features of the chagos suggestions we cannot decouple our emissions from the expansion of the dairy herd some of this like the BDGP was questioned as the beef data and genomics programme was questioned by EU auditors as to its environmental outcomes is it actually performing chagos have recently abandoned their better beef programme which was one of your flagship programmes there's a lot of demonstration farms which have fallen aside being run so tightly and so efficiently we need resilience in farming we need to have that sort of buffer zone and I think we haven't had that and that's where things start to fall apart you need that freedom look I do and look I know you probably didn't mean it but I hate to use that kind of motive language we've abandoned something we haven't abandoned beef farmers no we have more when I come to that we have more resources allocated to beef than we've ever had we're advertising for three new researchers in Grange they had to go out in the next week or so but the better beef programme in conjunction with the farmers journal and three of the meat companies has been running for 10 or 12 years and the people have decided the funders side look let's do something different so we're going to be actually coming forward with a big programme around sustainability for both beef and dairy farmers we've established something like 30 beef farmers we're going to call them signpost farms and the probably about 50 or 60 dairy farms in that so a network of somewhere around maybe 80 to 100 farms that are demonstrating not just profitability and good production but also sustainability on their farms so you know I know you didn't mean it but how are we going to get the profitability there when our beef is valued at 350 kilo that's unfortunately what the market is willing to pay I mean the demand for beef in Europe is stagnant if not going down absolutely this year it's been a really tough year for beef markets are cyclical though the demand for meat globally is quite strong at the moment because of the crisis in China and that's reverberating or whatever the word right through all the meat first I'm not saying that beef is going to go back to 450 next year but you know when prices are at their lowest you think they'll never rise again when they're high we think they'll never drop prices do change at the moment farmers are really challenged to make profit out of beef all we can do we can't set the market price if the market is going to stay at 350 yet we're in huge serious trouble not just Irish beef farmers but beef farmers all over Europe if that's where it's going to stay is a really really tough place but what we can do as opposed to show them look their times are good or times are bad and their simple messages for us they're about making best use of what you grow in your own farm your grass they're about having your animals as healthy and as productive as possible in terms of their fertility and growing your animals then as steadily and as efficiently as possible off grass so their simple messages okay we'll let Bobby in before we go to the floor of the questions why the bean scheme is not attracted to farmers the reason why the bean scheme is not attracted to farmers farmers had to reduce their stock by 5% that was the first thing that was against it so farmers weren't going to take up a scheme it was an environmental scheme but it's not attractive because one of the reasons was yeah you could use it I mean I won't have to use it in my own farm but I'll have to reduce 5% to get or I'll have to pay back the money that I get from being where we get the farm at home and the same way with loss loss wasn't attracted because you had to you have to play maybe an acre for a hen farm this thing and farmers didn't want to that were in grass were so tied into grass and so efficient in the grass they didn't want to be able to dig an acre over to this so the best scheme was ever brought into this country was the ref scheme as Pat mentioned earlier the rural environment protects the scheme and why was that the best scheme? because it cleaned up Ireland before refs was brought into this country that we were actually way behind there was no doubt about that and pollution was taking place where I couldn't soak again the water a couple of times a year was always pysed that's all gone because the refs scheme was the best scheme was over to the simple scheme and they found those refs one up to refs five over 30 years and that was the best scheme that cleaned up Ireland and to something like that scheme we need to go back an environment scheme would that'll work okay


Recent experiments on geometrically frustrated Kagome metal AV-3 SB-5 have revealed the emergence of charge-loop current, CLC, order near the bond order phase, and a novel mechanism has been proposed to explain its origin and interplay with other phases, which predicts the close relationship between CLC, bond order, and nematicity. This article was authored by Rina Tzai, Yuichi Yamakawa, and Hiroshi Kontani.


Do you pursue a career in business? If you want to have more information on how to develop your language of business, please allow me to introduce our minor accountancy. I would like to introduce our minor accountancy based on an example from my daily life. I just went to Starbucks to buy a tall cappuccino, price 3.1 euro. If you think about this, if I pay this amount to the shop assistant, this shop assistant gives some input in the system that the cash of Starbucks has increased. This is crucial information that Starbucks will use later on to make all type of business decisions. However, if we think about this example in a more accounting context, this transaction will also have an effect on the inventory of coffee, on the amount of hot cups they have available for future clients. More information that ends up in the information system is the fact that a shop assistant is working there. There's electricity. They recently renovated the shop. All this information, this large amount of data, is used as an input in the information system. Now what is accounting in this context? Well accounting is actually everywhere in the information system of a company. And so the accountant needs to understand who has access to this data, how updates in the systems are controlled, how is information presented in the database, are there for example automatic reorder points installed in this whole big information system of the company and very important these days is this information safe? Is it protected against cyber attacks for example? So as an accountant it is important that you understand how a system, an information system in a firm is built and how it is protected, which risks are related to the use of big information systems. Once the information is in the database of course accountants use this information to for example make the financial statements of a firm. Financial statements are used by external stakeholders. Financial analysts, tax authorities, competitors, investors and so on. However, this information need to be available according to particular rules. So we need to understand what accounting rules are, do you use US GAAP, do you use IFRS? We have to understand the rules of the games to know how to value for example the shops that Starbucks owns. How to value a new firm that Starbucks has purchased. So we need to as accountants understand the rules of the games before we can present this information to our external stakeholders. And of course is the role of the auditor in this whole picture because the auditor controls if the data which is in the big information system, if this data is reliable and on the other hand the auditor also controls the financial statements and indicates whether tax authorities for example can rely on the information that is presented in these big booklets. So accounting has to do with information in the systems and also how it is presented to external people. On the other hand, the information is also used for internal decision making. For example, what is the cost of for example a cappuccino? How do we calculate the cost? How to select a supplier for new hot cups? There are different producers of this type of cups. But how to select the one that suits our business the best? Do we make our own coffee or do we buy coffee? Do we have our own beans or do we buy the coffee beans? Do we drop certain items from the menu? The new panini with chicken is probably not the most attractive for customers. Do we drop this or not? How to motivate our shop assistant is another very important decision to make within a company as Starbucks because the shop assistants are very crucial to give a good feeling to our customer. So all these questions they need to be or they are answered by accounts based on the information that we get out of the big information system within our company. So actually all these questions about the database, about the financial statement regulation, what the auditor has to do, what internal decision makers have to do, all these questions need to be answered based on accounting knowledge. Actually if you will work in business, if you plan to work as a professional accountant, you can work as an auditor. You can work as an IT auditor, as a CEO, as a tax advisor, a controller, a consultant. Actually all these functions that are presented here they all have in common that you need to understand the language of business and accounting is this crucial language that you need whatever function you will have in your future career in business. However to develop this language of business we offer our minor accountancy in which you find three courses, all the thing and accounting information systems, intermediate financial accounting and intermediate management accounting. Please allow me to very shortly introduce you these three courses to you. Accounting Information Systems. As indicated in the Starbucks example, it is very important that the firms have well developed information systems and the accounting information system is mainly focused on the financial information that a business needs to make all kinds of decisions. It is however very important that the risk within the system is as minimum as low as possible. That's why a second part of this course focus on the internal control mechanisms. So how can we make sure that the system is safe, that we can rely on the information that is presented there and how can we improve actually the system, the information, how can we improve the reliability of the information in the system? A third part of this course focuses on all the thing because the auditor has an important say in the internal control of the firm. So the auditor also looks at the information system within a firm and checks whether there are no gaps in this whole information stream. So the auditor looks at the internal system of a company and also checks of course the final numbers that a company wants to present to the external stakeholders. This course is given, the setup of this course are normal lectures but we also use quite some cases, guest lectures and also some research papers to give you a mix of all this experience within one course. The second course in our master is intermediate financial accounting. This course actually builds on your introduction financial accounting course but it goes a lot further. It goes to more complex topics. So this course focuses on the international financial reporting standards and it deals with topics such as leasing, financial instruments, consolidation, goodwill, R&D, etc. So the more complex topics are discussed in this quite technical course. This course will provide you information on how to prepare financial statements based on these accounting rules and on the other hand this course will also discuss how to analyze the financial statements that are indicated that are presented based on the international financial reporting standards. This course is also a combination of normal lectures and instruction lectures where exercises and cases are discussed together with you. The third course in our minor is intermediate management accounting. This course builds on your basic management accounting knowledge and also here we divide the course in two parts. You have cost accounting part and management control part. In cost accounting part you talk about activity based costing, budgeting and all kind of other information that is used by managers to make important decisions in their company. Management control talks about performance measures, hard controls, soft controls, about financial and also the increasing importance of non-financial incentives for top management within a company. This course is case based so in this course we make use of cases from Harvard, Vlierik and other international top schools to provide you with more insights in cost accounting and management control. I hope it is clear by this information that the three courses in our minor are crucial to get some more insights in the language of business, to develop your skills or your language of business. Actually these three courses are very useful if you think about following a master accountancy later on. Maybe some students, some people think about doing the post master accountancy, then of course these courses are an important step up to pursue your career as an auditor. Students that follow these courses can also smoothly go to the research master accountancy if you are more interested in research. I hope it is clear by this presentation that a minor accountancy is a great step to your career in accountancy. Thank you for having watched this video. If you have further questions don't hesitate to contact us. I hope I can welcome you very soon in our minor.


The Australia Arts Scholarship has developed in me a better sense of responsibility to be able to collaborate more openly and to embrace diversity. It pushed me to my limits. I've accepted this challenge and I hope I'll be able to be an inspiration and become a leader of our organization in the Philippines. The Australia Awards helped me in building my capacity as a leader by allowing me to experience multiculturalism and diversity. Dealing with different people from different cultures helps you to be more culturally sensitive and that's really really beneficial for being a leader in this global world. The scholarship has developed my capacity as a leader in terms of my way of thinking so after the scholarship I learned how to think more critically. It gets me to connect with other people, other students. It also helps me to boost my confidence and it helps me to understand that in this world it's not only your country but you also need to get connected with other people from other cultures.


The question is that motion 479, in the name of John Swinney, on the coronavirus extension and expiry Scotland Bill, be agreed. Members should cast their votes now. I call Douglas Lumsden for a point of order. That wasn't working, but I would have voted no. Thank you. We will record that, Mr Lumsden. The result of the vote on motion 479, in the name of John Swinney, is yes, 90, no, 32, there were no abstentions, the motion is therefore agreed, and the coronavirus extension and expiry Scotland Bill is passed. The second question is that motion 505, in the name of Maggie Chapman, on appointments to the Scottish Commission for Public Audit, be agreed. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed. The final question is that motion 492, in the name of George Adam, on designation of lead committee, be agreed. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed. That concludes decision time. I hope that colleagues have an opportunity for a short break during recess. I hope that all Parliament staff have such an opportunity to have a safe recess. Thank you. I close this meeting.


Here's the camera equipment I use to reach millions of people a month across four different businesses. Number one, I use these DJI mics right here. They're wireless. They all come in one case. They have two receivers. That means you can do podcast interviews with them, or you can just mic up and shoot videos like this one. It all charges with one plug and it's easy to keep together. It's the best mic I've ever had in my life. Number two, I use an iPhone. The best camera is the one that you use and the one that I always have with me is my iPhone. So I've tried shooting with DSLRs and Canon's and GoPros in the past, but I found that I'm lugging across the world all this extra equipment. Sometimes I don't have it. Sometimes it's not charged. You know, it's always charged and always with me. An amazing quality is the iPhone. So I recommend no special equipment for you. Just find good lighting with the sun. Use the DJI mics with the iPhone. You can shoot content anywhere around the world and become a CEO and not self-employed. Click through for more tips like this.


If you smoked weed, the question is what type of weed smoker would you be?  The sensitive. The sensitive kind of emo weed smoker. I love you guys. I don't think anybody's too violent with you.   I'm going to get some easy water. OK. How you know I'll let if you don't? Because my uncle used to, you know what I mean? I know what time it is. So all the blunt thing, that wouldn't be my thing. And I would smoke.  Indic. Which one is the one that you just be? Indicative. Because I'm already amped up already. Sativa is the high one, the upper. Indicative is the down one. I know him. He's a sensitive smoker.


I don't know how I came to be in love with Battlefield Gothic Armada 2. Whatever life choices brought me to exploring this space-faring battleship strategy, I do not regret them in the least. Battlefield Gothic Armada 2 is that rare diamond in between the rock crystals that are most other games based on the Warhammer 40K franchise. There are so many mediocre video games based in that universe, I could make one video a month from now until eternity's end, and I still would have about half of them left to experience. But the good ones, nay, the excellent ones are rare indeed, and when I caught a parting glance at this one on the Xbox Game Pass for PC, I couldn't help myself. I had to try it out. The result is, I have come to enjoy the spectacle of humongous ships destroying each other in a two-dimensional grid. Why not a three-dimensional one, you might ask? The answer is, this game, like its predecessor, adapts to the beloved tabletop game. I wonder if, were developer Tindalos interactive to make a third one, they might challenge themselves in attempt to redefine the experience in the battleground itself. I doubt it, but it would be very interesting to see how a Warhammer 40K battleship game would play in a sphere, rather than on a two-dimensional grid. Gothic Armada 2 does not flinch when it comes to making full use of huge-scale ships, spaceman atrocities and everything else you'd expect of a franchise in which the concept of subtlety was abandoned 38 millennia ago. There's something visceral and terribly enjoyable about commanding a small fleet of ships and putting them against chaos and filthy zenos. The spectacle is, of course, thrilling to witness, but a lot of work goes into planning out vectors of attack, and even more work goes into the micro-management necessary to dismantle an enemy fleet. If you're a perfectionist enjoying the hell out of every inch of micro-management, you might end up playing each of the battles manually, for hour after hour of the finest, most well-directed action you could wish for. In addition to the visual feast that are the battles, Gothic Armada 2 also offers a strategic layer, which isn't overtly complicated, nothing at all like a grand strategy, but which offers you a fair amount of bonuses, upgrades and flavour while you wait for your ships to heal up after a disastrous battle. And boy, have I had a few of those. There are also several different star systems to explore and conquer, though I've only scratched how many systems there are in the Imperial Campaign, and I don't yet know whether all campaigns play around in the same set of systems, or if each one offers different and brand new systems to explore. The story starts off very well indeed, with good old Aberdon the Dispoiler on his 13th attempt to ruin everything via yet another Black Crusade. You'd think he'd give up after 12 failed attempts, but no, it's another invasion of the Imperium for Old Abbey, and it's off to a good start when the Imperial Bastion of Kadir is turned into, well, a bunch of dead rocks, big and tiny floating in the deptless darkness of space. Not a fine time to be taking vacation in Kadir, I don't think. This game further might be a very fine point to jump into the Warhol 40K narrative. It follows very recent in universe events, and it is told in a way that reminds me of the Golden Age of Strategy of Warcraft 3 and Starcraft. Not 3D portraits, true, but conversations between characters who have voiced and written well, jibes between foes in the midst of battle, and of course, the trademark heroism of space marines Imperial Guardsmen and many others. Sound is another strength of God and her mother too. Ship weapons have real weight, engines roar just right, and the soundtrack is what I've imagined the universe would sound like. Doyle W. Donahoe has done a splendid job capturing the mood with what is legitimately one of my favourite epic OSTs in years, as mild dramatic as Warhol 40K of course, and that is where so much of the joy of that universe comes from. Now outside of the game itself, I have heard it's tacked on anti-cheat software. Easy anti-cheat has caused no end of grief for some players, including those utterly uninterested in playing the game's multiplayer. I haven't yet come across any such problems, but you should be aware that they are present for others, and persistent. I've only just taken my first steps in Battlefleet, Gothic her mother too, and I suspect it will be a long time yet until I've had my fill. I would like to make either a review of the game as a whole, or at the very least, to examine each of the different race campaigns in the future, one way or the other. I hope to be back with more of what has been an unexpectedly enjoyable strategy whirl in the worst possible timeline. But until then, don't forget to hit the like button, share with your friends, subscribe, ring that bell button for further notifications, and you know the drill. Leave a comment down below. See you next time, bye!


Hey, thank you all for being here. I'd like to call this regular meeting of the development of e-bar to order. I'd like to introduce my board members actually starting up by right here. Kevin O'Connell board member. I'm Rob Goodwin, the chair. Meredith Crandall staff. Captain Burgess, board member. And on our Zoom platform we have Michael, are you here? I'm here. Michael, the board member. Thank you. Okay, and then we've got Joe. Good job, board member. Abby. Abby White, board member. All right, Gene. Keenley on high board member. Okay. Just want to do a one process real quick. So how many do four members do we have tonight? One, two, three, four, seven. Seven. So we have full qualms. Yep, full qualms. Everybody's here. Everybody's here for the party. Perfect. Okay, so I will turn now over to Meredith to provide a review of our remote meeting procedures. And here you go.  I went to the wrong thing. Hold on one second. There we go. All right, so the slideshow part is really for people who are watching via Orca media so that they can see how to log in. But there's going to be some other information that's for everybody, especially anyone who hasn't done a Zoom meeting with the Montpelier Development Review Board or Design Review Committee before. So for those viewing this meeting via Orca media, you can participate in tonight's DRB meeting via the Zoom platform by either using this video link. You can just type it right into your web browser and it should take you right into the meeting. Or call this phone number and plug in this meeting ID number here and you will be able to talk and listen. You just won't be able to see what's what everybody else is seeing on your computer or your smartphone. If someone is having... Oops, I forgot to update this. If someone's having issues getting in, please just email me. Don't email Mike. He's not on tonight, but I can help you log in. My email address is also on the city website. For those who are attending via the Zoom platform, turning on your video is optional. Please do keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This will reduce background noise and please use the Zoom chat function only for troubleshooting or logistics questions. If you have something substantive to say about an application or otherwise have some sort of comment you want to make to the to the board, please raise your hand either there if you have your video on and we'll see you or use your raise hand button on the Zoom platform and the chair will call on you at an appropriate time and then you'll be able to make that substantive comment then. If the public is unable to access this meeting and I'll find that out via my email, which will have open, then the meeting will need to be continued to a time and place certain if I can't help them get into the meeting because we did list the online access as a viable option. I'll now hand the meeting back over to the chair. At this time, I will accept the motion to approve the agenda for tonight's meeting. So moved. Second. Motion by Kevin and second by Gene. Kevin, how do you vote? Yes. Catherine. Yes. Abby. Abby, you're muted. Sorry. Yes. Joe. Yes. Gene. Yes. Michael. Yes. Rob, my cell phone. Yes, that is unanimously approved. Thank you all for coming out this evening. She said, no, we do not have any participants, representatives, the applicant or the public in the room this evening. Just three, four members and one trustee staff person. And our Archimedia. Archimedia. So this is, that's where everyone's at. And I will turn over to Meredith because we only have one application this evening. No, we have actually have one thing we got to do. We have to approve the minutes. So, board members, if you have reviewed the minutes, we, I would entertain a motion for either comments or to approve it. Okay. We've only got four people that can do it. Yeah, I was not. That motion to approve. So that was Gene moves. Gene has a motion to approve the minutes from 222, 2022. Is there a second? Second. All right. Motion by Gene and second by Abby. So Gene, myself, Abby and Michael are those. No, Joe. Joe are those that are eligible to vote. So Abby, how do you vote? Yes. Gene? Yes. Joe? Yes. Rob, myself was, yes, the minutes for 222, 2022 are approved. You just look saying that. I do. I do like saying that. It was a great day. You won't be able to do that again. No, never again. Until, yeah, I won't be alive then. Okay. So we have one application this evening for 203 Berry Street for conditional use approval of a ceramic studio. And I will turn over to Meredith for a brief overview of the project and how we got here. Okay. So, as Rob said, this application is mostly before the board because it is a conditional use. Art studios are considered to be in the, in an industry. And so they are, hold on one second. Now my brain just puzzled out on me. This is what the exact term is. And everybody knows me. I want the right term. So it's considered to be in the light manufacturing use. And here in the riverfront district, light manufacturing is a conditional use. So the, this has to come before the board. There's a few other tweaky little things, mostly because the parcel itself is a non conforming parcel. It's a very small parcel. It's already fully developed with what used to be the Berry street market. And so there is no space there for off street parking. And most of the parcel is already built out. There's a little bit of space back in the back. So even if it wasn't a conditional use, if any new use were put into this building that needed off street parking, it would have to come before the board for that exemption to the minimum number of parking off street parking spaces. So that's another thing that's here before the board for. And then there's also because of there's a little question about the landscaping that comes in where I've made some suggestions on how they might be able to meet the total site landscaping requirement because of there is so little green space on this parcel already a little tweak. But those are the biggies. It's in my mind. There's ways to approve it. And I've put some suggestions in the staff report. But I think that probably handing over to Frank and Heather to describe the business plan would make a lot of sense. Perfect. Okay. Frank and Heather, welcome here. First thing first, anybody that wishes to make public testimony tonight, in addition to Frank and Heather, we need to swear you in as witnesses. So other than Frank and Heather, is there anyone else that wishes to speak tonight on this application? Trevor, I mean, it's just going to be raising your right hand and saying that you're going to whatever you say is going to be truthful. If you want to then comment later, we'll need to swear you in at that point. I can't read who it is. So Trevor Cole and Kelly Taft, they submitted a letter. So that's already in the packet. And Kathy, you don't think you're going to talk? Okay. Okay. So we have no actual representative. Frank and Heather, Frank Salani and Heather are here. So they need to be sworn in too, right? Yes. Yes. So we have four people and essentially two parties being sworn in here. So all those interested in providing testimony on this application, would you please raise your right hand to be sworn in as a witness? One, two, three, four. Okay. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and penalties of perjury? Yes. Yes. See four nods slash guesses are good. So yeah, so Frank and Heather, I just like to give you this opportunity to sort of give an overview of your project and provide us any information that you think might be pertinent to tonight's meeting. Well, we plan on converting what is now the Berry Street market into my Strannick Studio. And it would be a private studio. I would use it to produce my work. There would be a small showroom where I would store work. I would have limited shop hours while I was there working. And I would use the space primarily to produce my work and to sell it. Most of my work now is sold online. I also sell at the partner's market, Montpelier, and I have several galleries that carry my work also in other parts of the country. So I should work to them and they sell it. We've reviewed the report, which is very thorough. We, no, I mean, it's wonderful. We agree with the recommendations. In terms of the landscaping, that's not an issue. As I mentioned, we mentioned we have plans to get a bunch of shade-loving perennials anyway for our own house. So providing those perennials in the back for landscaping is not an issue. I think we were also prepared to address the PH issue for the Department of Public Works, but maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. We're excited. Thank you. Thank you for having us here. We're very excited about the project. Yeah, no, it's great that you were able to have some time to look into those comments from the staff and the staff report. It will certainly be helpful. If you just back up for a second. So my understanding is you're planning on to doing a little bit of a modification to the staircase in the back. Could you kind of walk us through like the reasons behind that planning? Yes, there's an apartment upstairs that is accessed from a stairway on the exterior of the building and a back porch.  And in replacing it, the stairs are going to have to be replaced as well. So that's the real reason if we're going to be serviceable, we would certainly prefer leaving it exactly the way that it was. But that's not really possible considering the state of the structure that's there now. And in the course of replacing that porch and the stairs, we need to remove a small shed structure in the back of the building. And that will not be replaced. That will be removed. And that removal will actually produce the space, the little bit of extra green space for the property. And the stairs will also have steel grates, which will also increase the permeability a little bit. So if I may. Yes, Kevin. The upstairs is currently in the apartment and will stay as an apartment. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. And downstairs is, I mean, it was Barry Street Market. What's its current use? Right now, it is the market. I mean, no one's using it as a market. Okay. But yeah. Okay, that's fine. So the stairs in the rear, is that the primary access to the stop or is there multiple access? Yes. Okay. And we'll continue to be. And we'll continue to be. Absolutely. Okay. Actually, I had a curiosity, but I think also important for context.  I have one potter's wheel. Most of my work is actually stuck cast. So I make forms, I make molds of them and then I cast the parts and assemble pots from those. As far as machinery goes, the only machinery, I guess, is really a kiln. Nothing that really is extremely loud or produces vibrations or anything like that really. It's, when I think about it in terms of an industrial process, I don't think of myself as someone who runs a factory. I guess mostly people would refer to me as an art potter. Yeah. Oh, yeah, thank you very much. I think that's very helpful to place it within the light manufacturing use here, but not before we get into sort of diving into the step before it. Do board members have any sort of additional questions of where we're at now? I've got one. Could you talk us through the foot traffic and the other people who'd be there aside from yourself? I know you'd mentioned classes in the future. Right now I don't have any concrete plans to teach classes. Invariably what happens is that people ask me if I teach classes and in the past I have worked in places where there are communal studios, so I would not have been teaching in my own studio, but I would have been teaching at the community studio affiliated with the school I was at. Running a communal studio and having people in a communal studio is a very different thing than having your own studio. Something as simple as switching the type of clay you use, most of my work is made out of porcelain, and it tends to be a hard material to work with if you're not familiar with it. So things like stoneware tend to be used more in community classes, classes I would be teaching, and just something as simple as someone introducing stoneware into the studio means I'd have to clean everything down before I switched back to porcelain. So teaching classes is not something that I really plan on doing, it's something that I wouldn't want to tell you, oh I'm never going to teach classes, and then turn around and say, oh I'm teaching classes. If I did teach classes the space is so small there wouldn't be more than four to six people in there, and I can't see myself having open studio hours beyond the hours that I would be teaching in class, so the only time students would be in there would be during class hours, and the class is typically between two and four hours long somewhere in there. It depends on where you're teaching, I've taught places where a class is five hours long, at top places where they're 45 minutes, at top places, you know, but they're somewhere between those two, but it's a very different thing to run a teaching studio and to run a professional studio, and running a teaching studio is often a hindrance to a professional studio. Does that answer any of those questions? Okay, well so moving on here, we can delve into the staff report and just make sure we cover all the bases here with some of the issues that were bulleted. So on the first issue we covered the first part, which is sort of the general nature of the project, and we talked about this is like manufacturing conditional use in this district, and so I guess the first thing is talking about the dimensional standards, and as Meredith mentioned briefly, you know, there's an existing nonconformity, which is not uncommon and immobiliar and whatnot. And the particular area of like focus on this nonconformity was the 80% maximum lot coverage. So maybe it makes more sense. Meredith, do you think you could just sort of walk us through the, you know, the nonconformity of 80%, it seems to make sense to me, but you know, I think you could probably explain it better. So I wasn't going to ask Frank and Heather to get an exact square footage of how much of the property is currently pervious surface or water can flow down through because when you, I mean, just looking at the parcel and with the stairs currently being roofed, and the deck in the back mostly being roofed in the shed, it's obviously, it's obvious that more than 80% of the parcel is covered with surfaces that shed water. I mean, there's no question about that. And the good thing here, though, is that that's a current condition, right? That's an existing nonconformity where the parcel currently doesn't meet the standard. And with what Frank and Heather are proposing, they're proposing to remove the shed, change the stairs to a surface that lets water through and the upper landing where those stairs then meet the covered new covered decking porch, that's going to let water through as well. And so they have decreased the coverage maximum. It may still not be meeting the 80% standard, but they've improved it. And so given that situation that this was an existing nonconformity that they bought purchased, my suggestion is to say that because they're at least improving the situation, it can be approved. I would agree with that. Thank you for the great summary. Absolutely. So moving on, so section 30004 of the regs pertains to a demolition, which I guess you'll be demolishing the shed in the stairs, and then rebuilding the stairs largely in the same footprint, or exactly in the same footprint. So coming to this, I guess this is a question you have for Frank and Heather, and I'm assuming it's yes. But would you be willing to sort of a condition that within 60 days of this demolition to have that removed and all the way from the site that they can care of? Yes, absolutely. Considering the fact that there is no space on the site, whatever is demolished and removed from the building, I personally would want to have it removed as soon as possible. Okay. Well, thank you. So we're going to skip over the next couple sections outlines, because riparian areas, wetlands and steep slopes don't apply to this project along with staff did not find that erosion control was a particular issue of concern. And I believe that the board would agree with that. So we're going to flip down to access encirculation section here, which is on page nine of the staff report if you're following along. And I think we will talk more about this in the conditional use review. But I think generally the information that we've seen from the applicants and the current use of the building that we're not seeing much change at all related to the factors related to this. The board members, I'm seeing nods here that they agree with that finding. So the next section here, which we spend a little bit of time on here, is the parking and loading areas. And anyone on the board want to take a lead at this issue, or should I keep plugging along? So we have the ability here to have the discretion as a board to waive some of the requirements under this section. But maybe I'll start here by question to Frank and Heather. And let me just phrase this, figure out my wording here. As far as the change from how that building is currently being used in your proposed studio, do you feel like there will be an increase in necessity for parking and loading areas? I don't think so. We live just a couple of blocks away. So I won't be driving there. I will be walking there. People that come to see the work, they may drive there. But every time I've walked past there, there always seems to be plenty of parking on Berry Street there close to the studio. And I don't see more than one person, one quarter of people coming at a time. So there is on-street parking available on Berry Street, as was probably used for patrons of the Berry Street market. Nothing has changed in that regard in the last couple years. Is that correct? Yeah, there's always plenty of parking on Berry Street on both sides. It was a little bit different when there was a very street market in Kismet restaurant. And there was occasionally some tension between those two businesses. But that was years ago. And hours of operation will be different too. So I think it's somewhere here as staff suggests that the conditional use of changing use isn't going to be much of a difference from what has historically been used there, which I think gives me enough information. I think the board to sort of go ahead and not require any additional loading zones or parking or whatnot. So we're good there. Okay. So we have a little bit of a discussion here on the landscaping and screening requirements. My understanding is that you're proposing to do a little bit of work and replacing where the shed is and whatnot. Could you elaborate on that a little bit? Sure. Yeah, so I think it's either 36 square feet or 38 square feet of planting that would be required back there. That's not an issue. I mean, some of the things that we've been looking at, I don't know if any of you are gardeners, but we were looking at some verbinums, some Estilby, some Chara, like big leafy. I don't think anyone's going to see it, but still they're like big leafy, nice-looking jay-loving perennials. So we could get a little bit of life back there. And so my understanding from the application and the staff report that you might need to install a new event for the kiln or whatnot, and the suggestion was this could be painted to enhance the screening. Is that correct? It could be. Sorry. It could be easily painted. The vent is like a five-inch pipe that sticks out of the side of the building. It's not very big at all. It's like a kitchen vent or a vent that you have out of the bathroom, out of the exterior of your house. It's that kind of thing. It's not a big heavy-duty thing. And what side of the building would that go off, or do you not know yet? I'm not sure. I imagine it would go out of the back of the building. Okay. Well, I think that that takes care of landscaping and screening. We have certainly very minimal changes to the exterior of the building, which makes sense here. And so as we move along here, we can start our conditional use review, which is on page 16 of the staff report. This relates to chapter 330, which is the conditional use standards. So the first issue here, and I believe there were some emails that were distributed to the board. Meredith, would you like to share that information about the pH levels? Yeah. So just to summarize for anyone who hasn't read the staff report, when the Department of Public Works reviewed the application, they didn't have any big concerns. Their only real worry was with the wastewater. And from the glaze and the glazes that are used, some of them, depending on which you pick, can really lower pH values in the wastewater. And Montpelier's sewer system can't accept waste streams with a pH lower than 5.5. So I got that information to Frank, and he came back to me with some information that said that, hold on one second. One, the type of clay he was using, hold on, let me give you the right one. One, he uses and touches the clay all the time. So that's one of the ways to tell that it's not a really low pH. And he got some pH test strips and checked those and the wastewater from his clay water buckets where he reclaims clay, right? So the clay he doesn't use is going to soak in that and just keep it from getting dried out. That water was a pH around seven or eight. And the same with the, you call it glaze water, Frank. I don't know if that's like water that when you rinsing off the glazes. Yeah, like often you'll have to just sponge off excess glaze in an area. And I save all that too. Yeah, so he saves all the wastewater. And he also has a system. One of the things he, other pieces of information he gave me was that he also recovers the silt. So even though that wasn't something that the Department of Public Works was worried about, he made sure to let us know that he uses slip traps in his shop sinks. So this allows all the silt to settle out of wastewater before it's discharged from the studio. And he says he usually actually collects his wastewater, pour off the clear water the next day. So he tries to, you may have to explain this, Frank, but he said, once you have a full bucket of leftover slip, you dry it out to plastic consistency and press tile with it. So there's no, almost no waste from his process and very little other than clear water goes down the sink. Everything else is left behind and recycled to make tile. And he'll have one sink at 203 Berry Street that will be equipped with one of these slip traps to help collect everything. So I think that that, I haven't heard back, I sent this information on Department of Public Works, but Kurt Modica, I think was out on, as a day Friday and today. So he has my name to respond back, but it sounds to me like we have a lot of information on that, where the board could potentially just approve it, knowing that, you know, he'll still need to get potential with adding the new sink. There may be a new connection with Department of Public Works to get approval there. I guess on this issue, I'm just trying to think like, you know, in perpetuity that for the future of the current operations of, you know, of your, you know, business, you know, seem to be fine in a nonissue, but, you know, maybe we conditioned something to say that if there are changes in the process or whatnot that that would trigger a conversation with Public Works, not necessarily back here at the board, but just to make sure that we're covered there. Yeah, I mean, we can also, the condition, there can be a condition that the waste stream can't be below that 5.5 pH without, yeah, however that works. Right now the Public Works won't take a wastewater with a lower pH than 5. Right, but once the sinks in, if the, if the, say this, you know, Frank no longer is at the Ceramic Studio with somebody else buys it, but uses a different kind of clay, having that condition in here protects it. Yeah, would that be okay with, yeah, that would be fine. And then you can use it in the same place, you know? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so the next conditionally used item here is traffic. Just ask what, what do you anticipate any changes in the traffic pattern with your proposed studio or what not? I don't anticipate that many people rushing out to buy coffee cups. I really wish. Having a traffic circle. I don't anticipate increased traffic. I would imagine that the traffic would be less than if it was operating. It's the market, the way that it's configured now. Okay, that's the, if it were, if somebody were trying to reopen that market because the market has been out of use for over a year, they'd have to get a new permit and it would have to, it would be a higher just parking requirement now because a market sees much faster use. People are in a rush. People are in a rush. It's, that's more of a moderate to high traffic use, whereas the Art Studio is a limited customer traffic use, especially when Frank already has such a high internet presence. Sure, sure. Well, yeah, I mean, I just, to generalize here, you know, it's like we have, you have the apartments upstairs, you have, which generally the need for parking is, you know, at night when people are not at work, at least in normal times when we're not all working from home. But, you know, and in the business hours of the, you know, the studio are obviously during the day. So it does seem like a pretty good match as far as, you know, two different uses in one building and the location that it is, which kind of transitions into the, you know, the next conditional use item here, which is, you know, does it fit with the character of the neighborhood? And, you know, my experience with Berry Street is that this is sort of the exactly the type of thing that Berry Street is for. But, like, did Frank and Heather have any comments if they'd like on that? I agree. You see Berry Street changing, you know, you see Berry Street changing and all these wonderful things coming in. And so we would really like to be part of that, you know, otherwise we'd be like pizza. Yeah. Does this go through design review? It did. It went through design review for the stairs and the decking. And they were good with everything. They didn't have any tweaks to the plan. They were quite happy with what was being proposed. So there's no conditions or recommendations from design review for the board to accept here? Nope. I mean, it's ultimately it's your, you know, if this were an administrative permit, I would be issuing that design review permit. So ultimately the board is okaying that design review aspect of it. But there were no concerns expressed under those standards whatsoever. So I do the little yellow, right? The staff. This is your that's the staff. Yeah. And then everything else is filled out by the DRC. I mean, the chair does the circle. Yep. Yep. This is a copy of their form. Just summarize what you're talking about, Kevin, so that I don't want to. Well, design review is already, it's already reviewed, if I could know, no reason to duplicate the work that they've done. So my recommendation is to just accept the report. Absolutely. Yeah. So for anybody who didn't go into the packet, I know I'm, I know Frank and Heather did, but I don't know if Trevor and Kelly or Kathy did. The application packet that I circulated to is as part of this meeting materials, in addition to having my staff report and the application itself, I also included it to four three page form from the design review committee where they evaluate all the applicable design review criteria and say whether or not the project is acceptable or unacceptable under that. And then there's a vote recorded at the end. So the design review committee approved the exterior changes going on here, including that rear vent forward to nothing in favor two weeks ago. So, um, so I, you know, at the staff, the board, the applicants all appear to sort of agree that this very much fits with the character of the neighborhood and be a great addition to Berry Street. And at this time I'd like to see if any of the members of the public would like to comment or speak at this time. If so, just speak up. So Trevor, Kelly. Just expressing my support. Thank you. We do have your letter, your email. So thank you. I just want to thank you guys for coming out tonight. It is helpful for us to know that the neighbors are in support of the project or not in support of the project. You know, it's like your perspective is very important. So, so thank you for taking the time. I got the information I need. The board members have the information they need. If so, I would accept a motion. The only thing I remember is that I was still operating under quarantine rules, which requires us to make the final recommendation in or the final decision in a closed door session. Right. So this is nothing to say about the particular application and here, but as we've done with every application during this pandemic, we've done it in a deliberative session at the end for the ease of just the Zoom environment, but the hybrid environment. And so that's what we will be doing. Okay. So that being said, I will make a motion to close the public hearing and retire, the board retire to a deliberative session of what we've done here this evening. There's a motion by Kevin. Second the motion. Second by Gene. Kevin, how do you vote? I vote yes. Catherine, how do you vote? Yes. Abby? Yes. Joe? Yes. Gene? Yes. Michael? Yes. And Rob, myself votes yes that unanimously approved. See if there's anything else before we start on this meeting. I don't believe so. Just a little note. So one, I'm sending out the deliberative session link, so you're going to give me a couple of minutes on that. But we do not actually have an application for the March 21st meeting. So if the board wishes, we can just take a day off. If there are things that the board wants to talk about, we could always have a meeting as well for administrative matters, but it's up to the board. Okay. Well, I will be out of the country on March 21st. So maybe a night off. I will be returning by March 4th, but I hope to be posted whether I am in any shape to participate in a meeting on March 4th. Where are you going? I'm going to Norway. What do you mean April 4th? April 4th, yes. Okay. Cool. Wow. Good for you. My sisters. Nice and nephew that I haven't met yet because of the pandemic. So that's awesome. Awesome. Okay. Yeah, so your motion to adjourn. Okay, I'll make the motion. So moved by Catherine. And there are second. Second. Second by Jean. Kevin, how do you vote? Yes. Catherine. Yes. Abby. Yes. Joe. Yes. Michael. Yes. Jean. Yes. Rob, myself was yes. Thank you all for joining us this evening. So hold on one second. Frank and Heather, just to let you know, so the process here is the board will go into deliberative session and vote on the actual application and, you know, what conditions to put on the approval. And then there's 45 days to actually issue the written decision. We work really hard to do that much, much sooner than that. And but you and I can, can, can talk. But the, the, you know, if you look at the bottom of the staff report, there's a sense of what types of conditions might be on the application, on the, on the approval. And I'm just looking, chances are good that we'll issue the permit with the decision, I think, but we'll find out. Okay. There might be a little lag between the two. Yeah, thank you so much. We really appreciate it. Well, if it's approved, I can't say yes, it's approved at this point. Right. Thank you. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Sorry, I'm multitasking. Okay. And you will move to a journal ready, right? Sorry, I was doing too many things. Okay. Have a lovely night, everybody.


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