t how scary it was how fucked it was the situation that they were of course and someone dying there um and then Oldman has a bit of a head moment and he's put to sleep so something then we get but see that that that stuff is way more interesting and then it's like back to detective and it's like do we have to though can we just not really do we can't escape him he's always with us so this is a weird fucking part where one of them is describing that someone wasn't quite dead when they were getting his eyes and he like got up like a zombie it was horrifying um okay we'll have to talk about this first actually put a pin in that so they say red light green light was annoying because we could barely set a salvage anything because of the the fact that they were shot meanwhile tug of war meant that we could salvage a lot and I was thinking to myself they fell very far I don't know I feel like it would be the reverse if anything um that's a big ball if I get shot in like the head man my organs are just ripe go grab them obviously except my brain however I mean your eyes will probably still be fine very very could be yeah um and now if I fall from a huge height and slap into the ground I think all of my organs are fucked probably yeah I would guess so that's my basic understanding of how um there's no one that gravity does less than a bullet like I don't even know that that's true at that height gravity is going to fuck you up I'll take my chance with a gunshot then falling from that distance yeah some are going to get bullet hits every organ someone someone in chat just wrote squish game squish game Goga said it depends on the height so we're talking a huge height big old boy yeah that's the fall someone said that's not true at all so give me more more yeah just say it's not true unless they're talking about the people in the show I don't know I don't know what's happening um bullet damage is localized at least yeah right so if I was shot in the heart I would presume my kidneys are still salvageable yeah now there was going to be some pathway changes that occur when a bullet goes into you it'll move around a little bit but for the most part yeah it's not in the path of that bullet it'll probably be probably all right um oh I agree with you guys okay because that's just I have a basic understanding of the stuff and when they said this I was very confused I was like how I would have thought you'd have the pick of the fucking litter with the red light green light you've got wounds everywhere you just pick the ones that were shot in the head and well if you need eyes pick the ones that were shot in the heart you know like it just seems easy to me meanwhile tug of war I'd be like I don't know how much we're salvaging with this one maybe the back people who fall on the bodies that could be something maybe yeah but um yeah they imply in this conversation that the fact that they were shot ruined any chance of getting organs and I was like that doesn't make sense that doesn't make sense to me at all and then they're harvesting like one or two or three at most it's like man red light green light should have given you fucking like 50 bodies to work with at least um so that's well I mean it's how many they can actually get into that specific shoot and uh well yeah but void being incinerated so they yeah but it's all relative right they say like oh we couldn't really harvest much from red light green light it's like that's the game where I assume you could harvest the most because there's 255 people yeah well I guess the other one would be the the honeycomb because most people got shot in the head well but again if they want eyes too so I assume the eye there's risk of the eyes being fucked from being shot in the so that's what I mean you have the pick you have everything you want in red light green light it's all there yeah strange but I guess we'll move right along they mentioned that there was a zombie there was a guy who got up off the table with his eyes still hanging out it was horrifying because they just sort of you know making chit chat that's how they do the do and our guy is like zombie what uh what happened with that zombie and we I think we find out either now you could figure it out now we'll just get it but he believes for a moment that the zombies is brother and that's who's looking for right so he wants to know what happened to the zombie because presumably they may have killed him and they ask and then the guy explains like well we I think he says we hang on I want to make sure not get too far ahead I'm pretty sure it's in this scene yeah there you go okay um they're like what do you think happened we were in a hurry so I beat it to death with that and he looks over at a I guess a crowbar yeah so this is a really weird scene because then someone else goes hold on why do you need to ask you were there and it's like wait so then why did the guy that beat him to death with a crowbar explain it when he would have known he was it's it's very like wait how did what what is this conversation the fact that he alone he was like what did we do the zombies like the first thing should be what do you mean you were there not yeah I beat him to death because he was like spooking me I used that weapon over there by the way how do you not know this yeah oh dialogue and that's the thing with the way this scene runs it looks like that is the accurate dialogue it's not like a translation issue because we have the blocks of the scene have to kind of go this way for this to make sense and what he tells them is man I was a bit out of it back then they're like oh you a bit out of it yeah okay okay that explains a lot and so they get really suspicious and by the way this is a guy who didn't turn up for a whole night as well it's like and he doesn't talk much at all and he sounds different that he used to like how much more suspicious do you need to get and he goes to pull his gun because the jig is up but the doctor goes hey stop chatting this is my operating room and that's it it's done all right well wrap that up in a neat little bow so bad like none of this is working properly cancer micro dose and someone says he does catch on to him into the in the end it's like yeah that's great it's super awkward if he had caught on to him well before he had the chance to escape you know that's fine yeah old man struggling he wants to give him like a wet cloth for his head if he's ran out of water and um an andrew offers her water and she's like oh that's nice um it's nice you're gonna do that she tries to sort of I think make it seem less uh gift worthy if you will by saying you owe me you know it's just like you know she obviously did it because she felt bad for the old man anybody would yeah I think she says it wasn't for free you can pay me back tomorrow yeah there you go yep she's starting to open up a bit though we're getting that little you know a little bit of stuff that's coming through I like it I like it a lot and see you you settle back in and then it's like right off to the detective like no no go away yeah and so they have their organs off they go and just saying okay because I just don't believe it anymore this I think at this point the whole thing I was totally out I was like this detective storyline is balls I don't even know where we're going with it but it is balls yeah they just go through this oh god just keeps getting worse so he's like what's the game for tomorrow and they're like we don't know yet and he's like okay like to cut a long story short he basically says I'm going to kill you unless you tell me what the game is tomorrow which I found really odd because you like two times he's discovered the game has been right before the game in the show this is the night before he's got plenty of time like so I don't I don't know why he's like fucking throwing a fit and the fact is these guys want him alive okay yeah so he can't assume they're tricking him and he's like pissed he's like you fuckers better tell me what it is or I'll kill you this is like what are we doing um and so he gets so mad that he like like he's like go and find out go to the control room and find out which by the way we haven't even addressed the fact right now yeah feels like they probably should know I don't know why they don't you think yeah I these things clearly require an insane amount of prep to do yes oh yes um I'm the role in the fucking walls also that uh so uh yeah um he's like go to the control room and find out and he's like okay but I need the key that it's in his pocket he's like you could get it for my pocket trust me he goes to look and then he like knocks him over grabs his gun but before he can you know efficiently fire it at him he is stabbed and uh doctor man has taken the life of a circle or triangle I can't remember I don't really care um taking a life of a circle and the other one tries to hit him with a crowbar he does successfully but he manages to escape and he's just running around the facility um this is intercut with stupid I don't remember whatever um just trying to figure out the best do this chronologically right now um so yeah he run he runs off basically and he runs around the fucking mc ash allowed until he finally ends up in the place they played the honeycomb game that's where he ends up and is like all right all of that fucking commotion and I'm just sitting there way like there's no way they're getting away with this right and luckily for us they don't so that's nice uh yeah it's good to know that there's some sense left in the world however small and at the same time detective guy hasn't gotten away with it um they turn the lights on and the guy pulls a knife on him and he's like yo you're definitely not number 29 are you and it's like fucking finally finally um and yeah the guy basically hey for an organ harvester he sure does need a brain oh oh we do have fun here we do have on you so he's like take off your mask and then he does and then he realizes detective man's got a pistol on him now um maybe i'll have the conversation again because i think of you and i did rags but uh i was saying that if you have a knife to someone's neck and then they pull a gun on your belly um in this scenario i feel like the best thing to do is to keep that knife on their neck and say if you fucking shoot me i'm gonna push this into your neck yep yep yeah so the thing is a lot of a lot this is one of those areas where minute details are going to determine what the outcome will be if the gun is to your head then all he has to do is pull the trigger and you can't do anything as a result it happens just too fast for you to react true it depends where the gun is and where the knife is um trying to show it for the yeah he's look at where he's got that knife that's uh he's fine but um he relinquishes his leverage yeah look at that it's because this is the thing if you shoot me in the belly i'm digging this thing into your neck do you want to take that risk like so at this point we're at a standoff yeah your gun should not be pointed at that person's stomach it should be pointed at their fucking brain should i aim for the head always aim for the head because uh when i first saw this i was like oh cool he's got a knife on his neck he's got a gun at his uh his belly it's like now what's gonna happen and then he just gives his knife up i was like oh okay all right i guess yeah um and so he asked him about the zombie and he says the zombie was a girl so it couldn't have been his brother um and then he shoots him uh just gets rid of this guy after not but not before him saying if you go all the way up the ladder you enter the vip sort of area the control center and i remember being so fucking sad when he said that i was like you're not serious that this stupid little underground operation leads to a cave that goes out into a ladder that leads directly to the escape access for all the important people of the island as well as their control room you're fucking kidding me nice that's everything the detective could ever need and he has stumbled across this through a series of insane coincidences hey at least the show ain't inconsistent yeah i mean he's consistently lucky yeah boy um but i can agree to some degree that like maybe having that emergency escape is like the reason that's there for like the vip's i don't know that the vip's would be cool with a giant hole in the ladder system that leads to an underground all good organ operation like they feel like what the fuck is this it's just the operation yeah it's just a big it's not even meant for escape really it's just all purpose so yeah okay i get it i love the idea that the vip's have a backs escape that leads to like you know a ways to get off the island that's great but having it so that that ladder system is interrupted by a big fucking hole that leads directly to this it's like come on not cool so i'm i'm a little fuzzy on the details they're going to meet the organ smugglers right there like coming in a boat i think so uh so because i remember because i remember someone earlier said that like oh well organ donors questions where they got it from it's like yeah they're coming to the mysterious private island though that's just information yeah like it's for a for a big secret organization that's lasted this long you don't want to be seeing stuff like that you want to be like no no no we we have no leaks of any information anywhere at any time but yeah this shot is kind of what i'm talking about there's just this big fuck off hole in the middle of the escape ladder area yeah it's like where does that hole lead well actually this leads to the the kitchen but it's covered up by you know what i mean like the second one of the vip's ever sees this or frontman or whoever's going back and forth in this area for maintenance but why is there a giant hole here where does it go there's like turns out the organ people are using it too just like put one camera there or seal it off with a lock and they're fucked okay my mouse keeps double clicking on its own it's annoying me oh really oh you're gonna want to know that's pretty soon because that's that's just gonna keep happening it's very annoying i hate it ooh webcamschat.com haunt girls and boys yeah i want to click that oh man around my bases you got it before i did james you fucked them up um so yeah the guy tells our detective about all of that that he gets killed so that's just a great lead for him meanwhile dr bro just yeah go ahead go ahead no go ahead go ahead you're good dr bro is like look this has been stressful this is all been very stressful really uh but i i still like you know i just don't quite buy that he flipped the fuck out because they wouldn't tell him what the game next game is when they didn't know what the next game was like it all seemed very forced yeah um yeah like there are way better ways to handle this way better ways to handle this uh so if you need to go and find out right now like i i can't like we're lucky where we're able to sneak out and do this as it is i think we're like dude we've told you when the game is before the game many like previously we've never told you this early so calm down you're gonna be fine yeah you'll have the time you need to be able to prep do not worry about that but no it goes nuts and then this guy is like look i'll take off my mask i'm i'm i'm my flumes we got to get out of here because things will get way worse and then he says something that i think we're supposed to assume is a lie i fucking hope it's a lie he says when workers go missing no one cares but when the players go missing everyone does and i was like when the workers go missing no one cares i feel like those could be the ones who worry about the most because they know where we are what's happening the logistics of the operation the guns so um because this guy's clearly tricking him in the scene and he does try to kill him so i'm willing to just agree it was a lie because i feel like if it wasn't a lie holy fuck that's dumb let's just all agree he was lying to him to trick him that's fine um but before he can strike the frontman shoots him in the hand knocking the knife out as well uh i think the frontman is just pissed off like you guys cheating you know i can hear that you've got a thunderstorm in the background that was so perfectly time for when you said shoot you honestly for a second i thought like is someone moving a cupboard in his room it's uh it's i'll keep an eye out all right yeah it's super loud um yeah and he says you ruined the most important part of this place and that is equality oh boy everyone is equal while they play this game it's like okay and he says everyone who plays a fair game under the equal conditions these people suffered from inequality and discrimination out in the world uh and we're giving them one last chance to fight fair and win that's a very interesting perspective my man it's bullshit well so here's a here's an important question i think is he does he believe this or is he like is does he believe this and he's delusional or is he lying i assume delusional uh the thing is there are layers of fairness for example we actually we'll talk about this a little bit now because i just thought it's something that i brought up a while back a different efab but i'll bring it up again because one of my favorite episodes of game grumps in their first year uh they both play a game called nickelodeon guts i think is what it's called uh i might be wrong someone in chat will be able to correct me on that one but um they both go in blind and jon tron is dominating aron because he knows a particular button does a particular thing and aron doesn't know how to figure it out aron says it's unfair because you had way more information and advantage and jon said no we came in with the exact same knowledge i figured it out so as i asked back then we'll ask again who is who's right about whether or not that situation is fair if you if the idea is that because it's never truly fair in a perfect sense yeah so we have to go with reasonably fair um and i guess it depends on what principle you're trying to execute here when it comes to fairness i think that's an important aspect of it so if we keep in mind the idea that everyone in here is fair and has like like as equal as equal possible a chance of winning i suppose to try and get rid of the variables out there from you know from the compared to the outside world there's a lot of like um huh i think it's super interesting i think that um it's by degrees as well for example if i'm playing a game of like you know fucking throw a ball and land it into a hoop against let's just say free and uh i noticed that a is like high b is low and then if you press a and b together it's mid and so every time there's a mid hoop he can't throw it because he doesn't know what the mid button is i figured it out now do i tell him i'm like hmm i guess i probably should um but if the game is already tight enough as it is i you know i there's a chance i might be like well i figured it out he didn't let's see other scores turn out however if we're playing like a platformer split screen or something and i i know what the jump button is but he doesn't and he's like hey what's the jump button and i just go i'm not telling you like well there's no competition you can't even fucking cross the first platform what's the point like yeah um so there are there are lots of degrees this i see a lot of people in chat saying john was right um when you go in blind to a game and you just like your first game and if there was like a pretense of just you know do what you can try and figure it out um i think i'm okay with it for the first one but at that point after that you may as well tell me otherwise i'm just not going to continue i want to know what you know so that it's fair uh going forward um it's interesting thing about now the reason i bring all that up is that there's a lot of that in this where people know things ahead of time or people know things more than other people because of their history or people have more bodies that are better suited for the challenge or they luck out and grab something that other people had they known what they knew they would have done the same thing degrees of fitness as i was saying they're i guess a good parallel is they're so escape rooms right our family's done escape rooms before you know a little thing we've done you know four or so and one of them that ended up being our least favorite was that we in order to get a clue you had to to move on to the next stage because these are like steps you do this and then you do that and you do this and there's some level of overlap where you help work on this point being that in this particular escape room you had to this was not optional you had to be able to solve a rubik's cube if you did not know how to do that then you could not progress past that point done finished no way so if you don't know it you're not i i don't know if it's possible maybe if you're super fucking smart you can figure out how to do one of those things without being told on the spot without being taught how to do it especially within a time limit and we thought that was shit we told them this by the way so this is like one of those oh it's one of the reasons i don't like crossword puzzles i don't like crossword puzzles because if you don't go in with the prerequisite knowledge of what the answers are you can't progress sure you can get help by other ones that you do know but there are some like if i don't know betty grovel second husband then i'm just i'm out of luck i just flat out cannot complete the puzzle because i don't know that piece of trivia and to sort of like tug-of-war kind of applies to this was it fair that they go against people that are more powerful than them it's like well that doesn't seem fair it's like was it fair that they went against a team that knows how to better play tug of war to better leverage what strength they have like um because some people will know more about tug of war than others for example i know how to solve a rubik's cube so if like rags and my families were racing each other and the fucking like final door was solve a rubik's cube it's like well rags you fucked like you can't really win it's like well where's the fun in that where's the competition that's just pointless um yeah it's like yeah it's like it's this if you want to avoid the idea of the contest is decided before it even begins um and so fairness is an ideal that we all try to strive to whenever we're creating sort of environments like this um and i think frontman is not doing anywhere near enough to make a fair environment yes i think he's even actively sabotaging it at yeah we'll get into that um so yeah also if i can what we'll say we'll keep going we'll save till later the the key criticism people typically have is like this game isn't fair my concern isn't whether or not the game is fair because i think there's a lot to talk about in terms of what that may mean it's whether or not it's consistent with what frontman thinks is fair as a character it seems to me he's full of shit like i'm not sure if he's supposed to be yeah he seems like he's full of shit and it doesn't make a ton of sense based on what we learn about him later yeah but um yeah we can go over this but that's that's a taster it's a teaser if you will uh we'll cover more as we go but also muddies the theme and the uh allegedly biting social commentary i think some would argue it supports the theme yeah but um we'll talk about that well yeah mola has a weird humming that's probably my fan it's keeping me cool uh all right just have a person back i use is higher someone yep it's a fan of the channel they're back there just saying you're cool i'm keeping you cool you are immortal so yeah frontman says you violated the the the equality fuck you boom dead but he's also pulled off his mask as well so that's probably another reason he's dying and then doctor gets uh executed too um i suppose like we do learn specifically he did it because he cheated that's what it's considered and uh cheating then at that point definitively includes having information about a game before starting the game which um we know that uh the doctor would have told other people that you can easily look at that through the tapes and you can know that from how they pick the teams before the games are even revealed this is something song woo points out i'm surprised that there's nothing in the show to account for it like like the frontman's like yes you died because you cheated but all the information you gave to people that's allowing them to cheat is fine it's like okay yeah i guess i wonder you know at what point do we say yeah like oh the cheater got out can we do we kill all the people who figured it out no i know i mean we we clearly don't have an issue killing people but i mean they were just i mean you can't blame them in a sense um absolutely especially if he'd like fucking told everybody or something that was the game over it's like well i don't know but it doesn't as fuck with your because he makes it very clear this is a hugely important like big deal that is the integrity of the game many players have the same information the doctor did and the doctor got killed for it um yeah and as the game progresses i'm not sure if that is really i'm getting i'm getting mixed messages i by the time i get to the end i'm like would you have killed that guy for cheating like that because you kind of fuck around with shit yourself and the people you're entertaining they don't seem like the most sportsman of folks so i'm just not yeah so uh yeah detective man goes up to the the control sentry room and just has its free access to front man's bedroom basically um and they discover the body at the bottom of the stairs um and this this frustrates me to no end it's twofold and i just it sucks the detective plot line takes up so much time because it's so bad they spot that no tanks it'll be worth it it'll be worth it no scuba gear is missing basically so there's no way that he's gone which first of all that's an interesting conclusion that because there's no scuba gear gone then that he has to be on the island it's like we don't we're not sure we don't know how he got here necessarily so i don't know just wouldn't be sure of that secondly yeah why didn't detective man stow away a scuba gear suit to make it look like he used one to escape what about a smart thing to do that would have actually been a oh nice one detective that's that's a good thing and then they know that the hole is locked off they know that the imposter was here none of them go up the ladder to check if the fucking access to the control center has been shot because it has if they check that they would know he's probably up there search it find it kill him yeah you would flood that you would wake everyone up you flood that place with fucking squid men squid squad yes squid squad you would ask you would flood that place with squid squad and you'd say shoot the guy go in go in teams so you don't shoot each other because we have this interesting system of attire and then if you see anyone that just isn't your team you just fucking kill them and i'll give you a bonus or something i don't know yeah man um and so someone was like well what do you like about the detective plot line i'm like that's a great question anyway i like that there is someone trying to uncover these things absolutely yeah in theory in theory i have no problem with the concept of the detective plot line yeah this would have been nicer made a little bit more sense another alternative could have been that it's a detective who's been looking into this for as much as maybe a decade maybe more and he's got all this information he's spoken to all past winners he's spoken to the people who've come out of there out of like voting against it he's learned loads about the facility the games the people and the security and this is the game that he finally decides to try and sneak in he was all the knowledge he has you know he's in he's in trouble with the police department they think he's wasting his time and he's being crazy and he's not following protocol and stuff like that he's like i know it i know what something's happening to these something to do with squids you know yeah something about these hundreds of people that go missing every fucking year maybe there's something we should look into and they all that like this is the this is part of the problem with will billy i don't know when we're gonna get there but it's like all these people you would have found a common story with all of them there's these cards there's this weird game i play with a businessman all these people are horribly in debt yep hundreds go missing every year for decades i have big at the same time actually already i don't believe you go ahead go ahead bill actually already already on this scale like just on this game alone you have to pop looking for his for his brother i think if i'm not mistaken and then he is gone for multiple days so she would probably call his relatives or his parents or whatever it's like hey we can't find your son oh yeah he was looking for our other son maybe there's a connection and then they go to the room it's like there's a weird card here if he didn't take it away i don't remember but something would have happened it's like oh yeah he also sent me a weird man told his boss where he last was or that would have been a really smart choice as well yeah that could be interesting um like oh yeah he sent me a weird message maybe we should look into this and then they probably would have found something to some degree it's uh someone mentioned like it doesn't mean they take place in korea every single year there's a good chance that we they're doing it in all different places all the time um that raises more questions i don't know how to get away with this worldwide and think of the operation at that point i do heavily heavily imply it's worldwide yes they do but how but it makes no sense why would they have an archive here specifically if it's worldwide maybe this is the first one or this is maybe this is the cool base i don't know the implications seem to be that this is the korean one that there are yeah i got that vibe too but then i maybe the files the files get moved to wherever they end up going for the season if you maybe maybe so there's multiple facilities like this with like huge ceilings they can move insane i mean maybe they all i don't know i don't know i was gonna say maybe they all happen on this different populations to people but someone said in fairness 500 000 people went missing in the u.s. last year well korea has 52 million people in it total so significantly smaller the fact that all of these seem to be a fairly central location they all seem to be based in the same location within a week and there are yeah 450 people go missing at the same time in the same location essentially that it in this happens every year no don't i just i don't believe it i just don't believe it i don't believe that this is a state of fucking emergency for south korea and so uh he's searching through all the things and he finds that these games as early as 2007 i think is the early state we see i'm not sure oh no no it's it's in the 80s oh 80 okay oh yeah um yeah because he finds he finds a binder specifically and this is where he finds his brother's name of past winners and this binder full of past winners begins in 1980 i want to say five or six i don't remember exactly wow well yeah uh the obviously the big reveal being there's been a shit ton of games you know oh man like we're talking a lot of games uh which kind of doesn't help with the whole because if this is the first game of its kind i could buy a lot of stuff being the way that it is right now yeah i and that's how we operate for most of it you know but then it's like no this is our favorite so far that that's uh that sort of thing also can i point out an interesting little detail do it um when he opens no he opens the binder for this year um you may notice just go ahead and let him open up the binder there just go to the clip there i'm not sure which one oh when he first opens it yeah when he just first opens the the first binder he finds yep what's missing uh you're gonna have to help me out so i'm not sure where does it start 99 not that one oh no sorry it's not the first one he opens up it's the what it's the current year one current year oh my god yeah current year one current year one moment though please come on i know right open the book good duke come on ruining it i saw you do it already i know you can do it just stalling oh he's taking his sweet ass time stalling to the end there it's like hang on it's gotta be who's called squid archives squid archives yeah is this what you're looking for yeah oh the one number one is missing he's yeah there is no number one the old man he's not in the book um i guess you're right i don't know if there's another page the left there i'm assuming it has just been taken out yeah well he just he just popped that binder cover right open and uh there's no number one you would you would see the the page on the rings mm-hmm yeah that's neat yeah so he so number one's not there and that that was the very first time i'd notice like okay hold up a second something is definitely up with number one now i'm suspicious of him like big time mm-hmm um yeah uh they through having noticed that 28 was like killed they check 28 and 29 is missing so check that and they're like yep so 28's accounted for 29 is missing and there's an imposter in the place so the the the the bad guys are finally catching up with the detective thank goodness um but that they say he's not on the security cameras and you know the one place it doesn't have security cameras which is another opportunity for you to give me reason to think the frontman is smart hey be like oh i know where he could be but no no one fucking thinks that he might have gone up the ladder nobody concludes that that's a possibility excellent ladders are for vertical yeah that's a good far fetched oh yeah in the bathroom is true yeah yeah that's right they can go to they can go take a poo and don't to worry about we'll never find it top people in times um so yeah with with this having happened in a game on the way they um they just root rounding up everybody but um old man for a moment i thought old man had died and i was like oh god this will be really sad but it's uh he doesn't want to leave his bed because he he doesn't peed himself unmissed m-unfortunately um yeah he can't help but feel a little bit sad for him something is um i don't know as small as that in relation to everyone getting killed she's like oh yeah i think that ends the episode so uh yeah we're on episode six now episode six all right the famous one it is famous it is famous it is for the right and wrong reasons well i'm aware of the the former but not the latter so yeah me neither i'm actually not aware oh never mind i was thinking uh i was thinking a seven never mind oh okay oh idiot i can understand that better um damn six kicks off dare i say real strong with making me love jihun even more that he takes off his coat and uh ties it around uh the waist of old man to make it so no one can see his his trousers i was like oh that's that's really nice of you and uh even smiled about it as well he's obviously appreciative of it and it's just um indicative of the heart that he has that he's concerned enough about that to make that kind of move in the middle of being rounded up potentially be fucking mooted or some shit you'd have a dough with this squid game uh humanity just just sparking through you know like if someone in chat is like put the subtitles on as if they're like watching it through this sort of system i wouldn't recommend squid game but this way this is not the greatest way to know it is good enough to warrant watching on its own even with all of the it's it's like it's like that other thing that we were talking about where the plot is tis me with the characters are it's like the suicide squad yeah yeah i think that's a good maybe if we get to the end of the season before everyone dies we'll be able to conclude in such ways um but yeah they are trotted out and they are shown the traitors they are like lined up execution style to be portrayed as like look at these fucking pieces of shit this is what happens when you cheat yeah don't be a cheating loser don't yeah don't be thieving don't be a thieving man um yeah it's a bit of a message sent and uh obviously uh thugman is like damn my guide is dead that sucks but hey i wasn't cheating okay he was a bit brutal and i'm just surprised they got away with it for this long even one of them still wearing the little organ and apron the little organ apron and so we won't have to set that shit up at night it's like get up you need to hang some corpses from the sea leg imagine being that dude like why am i always the one that does these jobs like this is weird jobs all right would you better hold the really tall ladder for me it's like really wobbly old trees all fall on the emcee usher doomhole so um um i'm gonna spotlight uh if i remember correctly for you you thought it was really neat that um you noticed that he'd put the receiver down the wrong way and then the the front man noticed it as well right um well yeah i was like yeah you put it down the wrong way it was shot really well and then he reacted to it in a really subtle way i noticed it immediately we did not need what follows no i've got more problems than just that i'm i think it shows a serious lack of intelligence on the detective's part that he fucking didn't remember which way he picked it up god damn it well yeah you'd want to make sure that you're doing it exactly the correct way you had one job it is not hard to come across as though you're not in that place and yet he fucked it up leave things as you found them yeah mm-hmm and it's a very organized place you know yeah there's only like nothing it is the only thing you're interacting interacting with really so well we'll get so question they they they have a sort of like everything shuts down they go into the room to make sure intruder is not in there they still haven't they're just going to continue on with the games while there's an intruder or quite well to be fair they've not even checked that room that area they just decided now he's not there and all they had to do is check the latch to the ladder and they'd be like oh there's a bullet hole through this he's probably here true it does make me wonder why they would continue like regardless of whether they did anything close to a decent job of looking for him they didn't find him yet they think he's not he's still there and they're like all right we're just going to keep keep playing until he shows up we'll see what happens when someone in traffic i wouldn't remember the phone thing to be fair so he's a detective his whole job is to be undetected he needs to be undetected remember you're at a place where you want to make sure that you're not leaving any like yeah it is your sole focus at that moment yeah like you wouldn't have noticed watching the show but if you were there you'd definitely be paying attention like the murals on the wall yeah exactly i didn't notice the murals on the wall but also i'm paying attention to characters and subtitles and you know the dialogue and my life isn't on the line you know yeah i'm not i'm not living in there for days i'm sitting comfy you're there for like an hour at the most like i die to lull fries oh he said to be honest not to be fair that i'm just saying that um you as a viewer would be forgiven for doing that um a detective no not something i won't let that happen your whole fucking this is exactly what you're here to do is to discover what you can without being fucking noticed you can't even do it don't even with a receiver diversity higher all of them they need a nation who would be funny if the detective character was played just by an American white guy he's an idiot like through the whole thing um so yeah our team is told to go into groups of two to find someone to work with and uh unfortunately this is going to start to create issues because it's pretty clear especially after the prior game you're gonna want just able-bodied man bro that's pretty much what everyone's gonna want and you can what's great about the characters it's just everybody knows this is true but nobody really wants to say it because it's just so lame in terms of just like talk about unfair am i right am i right folks am i right so speaking of unfair uh they're being deliberately active again in the language because they talk about like find a partner find a teammate so that's actually what i would give us a compliment to the fairness on our what we know right now it seems unfair but what it ends up being pretty fair actually uh in terms of you the marble game isn't exactly one that requires more strength or more it's almost exclusively love no i mean ignoring the the strength and physical you know or intelligence advantages people have i mean they're told to pair up with teammates with partners and then they're playing they're they become opponents so they mislead them into thinking they're um forming partner that's actually the kind of vagueness that i actually appreciate uh i think that it's cool i don't know if that's vague i think that's deceptive yeah i i'm kind of on capital side here i'm leaning towards that teammate is a pretty if they use the word teammate that is they use that as a partner i believe if they say partner it's fine but i have to check the language i don't know if that's i don't know they said you'll be playing in teams of two but is that a translation thing teams of two teams of two find your partner yeah and play you want to play with yeah and they say you'll be playing together which isn't a lie yeah teams of two though it implies a team yeah a team a team can be just collectives right yeah let's see no i think they're all working towards the you know together like i can't show you have become partners i uh team is a group of players forming one side in a competitive game or sports the verb is come together as a team to achieve a common goal yeah and then it's a i've never with your partner uh yeah these are always used as being on the same side you're not partners with your opponent you're not teammates with your opponent it yeah this one's it's not checking out i'm just i'm just you know there's not a not necessarily what's the uh what's the criticism though this this isn't a criticism in and of itself it's just a seed for later discussions and theme that they're that they're being deceptive and manipulative and not um vague or yeah that's yeah it's just lying to i guess the question is does that change anything about what their perspective is on the concept of fairness or anything in relation to the game well we can talk about it because um oh no i i well i mean i guess i've not i don't know like is it does it ruin the fairness by someone okay so playing this team's wall just kidding you're playing against each other no not that aspect no it does not i guess more what i'm thinking of uh i guess it has less to do with the the fairness element but um it does have to do with i guess it's not fully honest um well yes so no i guess they've done that for every game or yeah yeah uh yeah so they sort of write a weird line but actively deceptive and vague i like the vague stuff better but that's just sure preference and then there it does get to a point where it seems like no one seems to acknowledge that how can we trust anything they're saying about the teams like they're probably lying they're like we should probably do the opposite that sort of there's i don't know i feel like i would want the characters more to be this would be the game in which they learn that and that can't do anything with them going forward the last thing that doesn't matter yeah we have to look at like what principle is trying to be exercised here because you have one we're not like the outside world everything is fair in here like everyone's getting you know a decent shot and at the same time or do or we or we or do we go with if everyone gets lied to that's fair well i mean i guess it's just what is the unfairness here um you've been saying you're playing as a team lol just kidding you're not it's it hasn't changed anything about how fair or unfair the particular game would have been regardless of who you picked i guess and maybe even a thing of saying like well yeah your assumptions were wrong you pick teams thinking oh who's strong and stuff like that but no if that's not the game that you're playing yeah it's less to do with whether the game is fair for everyone competing in it in this instance as it is to do with what this says about the general theme or idea or the ethics of the people running the organization and then what the show is trying to say about how this game compares to the outside world and also what what this does or doesn't do to change the mind of competitors going forward about how much they should trust what they're being told by the organization again with that one though that doesn't change game five or six well yeah so sorry i just saw someone that said it's causing you to make a bad strategy but everybody's making bad strategies because everybody assumes that you are you're working together so in that sense it's it's unfair to everybody it's equally unfair to everyone it's it is interesting how it affects the idea that like you're not watching as as a vip person watching this you're not watching people play games strategic i don't know it's it's you're deliberately misinforming them for the drama i guess but i mean is there anything to be said about whether or not that evokes because i mean of course in narrative it's really great in terms of bringing out some interesting conflicts well i also think it matches the the design of the games being like they're gonna rely on information they've garnered from previous games so we're gonna subvert them completely yeah which they do in a few occasions i'm not even sure that i totally buy the whole because like i was in when we were training for um uh when i was in tech support we had to split into teams of four right that's how it was because we did other team things one of them was we had to build a giant like lego sphere i have no idea what else to do with tech support i think it was team building but um like the teams had to compete against each other right there's another one we had to form in teams of four and then we were all given a piece of paper with a paragraph and the three one person reads it as uh at the speed they believe to be like um efficient as a speaker and the other three time it and then the person they framed it as the person with the fastest wins right um but at the end of it they revealed no it's not about reading fast but reading clearly and that then they reveal what the actual speaking time should be and the person who came closest to that ended up being the winner when they thought that they were like one of the losers point being is that we split into teams to then compete against our teammates and that didn't come across as strange at all to me like yeah no i i don't think the implication you guys gave was the a teammate is not an opponent you can't use that word to do that but it might have been a mistranslation well that too um maybe yeah that might actually really be the case because they just said partners and kept saying partners it's like well that could mean a lot of things well much like playing with that person it's like well yeah that could mean a lot of things i guess i'm just saying that even in real world examples i don't know that saying someone's a teammate excludes them from being someone that you can compete against right um it i don't know if i agree with that but it's ultimately well so i know that that's true because it's happened in real life but that could just be examples of people using the words wrong i guess which would then be used as validity for this just like they use that word and someone in the in the crowd to be like that's not what teammate means and the squid game people be like okay but we you know we kill you right yeah i don't think they're that concerned about it um yeah i i guess i it would it would certainly have been i don't know the verbiage if it was super tight in a sense but i i don't know i'm i don't know at least i i completely agree i think if they had kept referring to them as partners um but then again i guess someone could argue isn't your partner not supposed to be someone that you fucking fight against so it's like your your um all i really want to all i really want to plant here is that they're deliberately giving them deceptive information so they can't make the best in or the most strategic informed choice for the drama and entertainment of it which is interesting and they're all equally affected by this so it's not in fair for everyone it just this will be relevant for future discussions of what the message is and how happy go ahead i would agree with that i i think it's just um this is probably an element of a lot of the games right we'll talk about it later on but um in the fifth game you know the numbers you have no idea what those numbers mean in relation to the game that you're playing depending on the choice you made your fucks like just mathematically and there's nothing about it to correct chat the like you're expecting ethical behavior here hmm it's like i think what capon and rags is more so consistent rather than ethical strictly yeah there's because if because you get the because i think that's one of the issues you sort of get mixed messages in terms of you because i was really interested when square gets killed and frontman says you know it does this thing about you know fairness and that's the most that is the most important thing is that the these games be seen as fair and that we're fair and that we're not it's not supposed to be like the outside world and that sort of thing like that and then when you meet the ips and when you see stuff in the games after this point that just sort of that super interest that i had in that concept where you know how do we justify this whole thing happening one of my thoughts was oh maybe a super principled group of obviously mega rich people are doing this to do something or test something or that like it planted that idea that that would be where it goes but it gets muddled by itself later yeah it muddles what their ethic is not that you know the the ethic of gamesmanship and sportsmanship and what they're looking to see out of it and what that says about the message of the show um i assume yeah that's why i want to eventually uh mm-hmm we are at six hours um we're on episode six i i i i i think i have to go up i'm afraid right on episode six yeah i'm very very upset about it but i have to get up in about six hours or so so oh my goodness that's your lucky number i'm lucky number i guess yeah and we do another when we do is now a struggle tomorrow mutually and we is we is indeed a blue i need to nap tomorrow somewhere i don't know it's gonna be gonna be tough one uh yeah i wish a good stay but not feasible i'm afraid because of this gosh darn work i'll be yourself i know you sleep now is that yeah yeah i fall yeah whatever you said okay yeah um all right so we go go back to these these events what i do like character wise they're all like well we gotta get them strong strong folk um and i think the the crazy lady appeals to like many people in the team but she realizes that nobody wants to be teamed with her that ain't happening and then before uh it can what was that oh okay uh before it can be like figured out in terms of what the best idea is um song woo asked ali ali to be his his teammate and it's like oh because the obvious thing of that is if he's your teammate then he's not my teammate and neither are you like okay and uh it's um definitely you'll get it just it feels like they tried to evoke the like on the playground with his three friends but only two can do a thing it's just like sorry i have to go third wheel bye bye yeah um and yeah uh the the crazy religion man and just other guy i think that we haven't really gotten to know they team up um lots of people start teaming up and i think uh our protagonist is like oh now and he looks at old man and it's really awkward because i think even as a viewer you're like oh man i don't need to team up with old man because you'll never have a chance at that point but at the same time you're like but that's really mean just to do like every other guy um and before he can say i don't want to be your partner uh the old man is just like take my jacket you wouldn't want people to think less of you by not having one i'm just like oh he just he just walks off because yeah he just he's like no one's gonna want to be fucking teammates with me i get it it's fine um it sucks then we have the moment of just having a look around and does this do oh uh obviously uh thugman is teaming up with his second in charge thugman makes sense they could be thugmans together um yep and then andrew teams up with the girl she dragged in for tug of war seems to make sense why not and um why not she says as a pitch like i'll make sure that you win this it's like oh all right stands useful um i don't know about you guys but my thought when i was first watching this episode was that we were going to be subverted into a game that girls were going to win like it would be something to do with i don't know agility maybe or um maybe even sprinting or something i have no idea but i thought that was going to be the i don't know we don't we yeah we don't know what girls are good at on efab nope if someone someone would have to if anyone in chat let us we don't i don't know um keep it yeah give us comment below like and subscribe yes leave an essay uh cleaning competition wow oh uh um yeah this is guy who's like i was waiting for everybody to partner up so i could offer you to to our main dude he's just like really okay um he's like i'm a math teacher i'm pretty young like he's like selling himself and uh he said like look we got a partner up because the last person there's an uneven number here which means there's going to be one person remaining and uh that one person you know not going to want to know what happens to them and he's like well what would be that and he's like well they'll probably get killed um and he just says i'm guessing it's going to be the old dude and he's just sitting on his own at a quarter it's like odd he's um it's a really great shot too nobody wants to be friends with him and yeah it's a great meme template mm-hmm he puts a hand out and then we see a hand come down for old man it's like yay kind of an interesting sort of feeling though because as a viewer if you're being completely honest with yourself you should feel like man protag might die because of this yeah is that what's gonna happen are they gonna is he gonna die for just being nice gonna be what gets you killed mm-hmm but um that's always satisfying but i i always like as it is we've sort of finished the choosing of partners that just cuts to here in the middle on a road been like you're all stupid you should all be my partner yeah and she basically appeals to everybody until she ends up on the ground everyone's gone and she gets pulled away which um yeah it's been 50-50 with people who i've watched it assuming well she's dead and some have assumed no i think they wouldn't kill her because this as would be cited too unfair i i was thinking that she would be alive i don't part of it was because i think they're really starting to play up a resolution between her and thug yes and i don't know if they'd set that up so much just to have her die randomly um but also i do think that if no one the odd person out just like pretty much any sport if there's an odd number though they get a they get a freebie if you don't have an opponent to play with in that bracket or whatever you get to go on to the next round you get lucky and lucky in your favor um yeah that was the main reason why i thought she'd live was we wouldn't pack that much work into her as a character just to kill it like that would we like it's possible but seems like we could get a bigger payoff i really wanted her to die so badly and i'm so annoyed that they kept her alive i wanted her alive because i figured i figured she'd get back at the thug so i don't like the thug you like the thug i hated him you'd like yeah well i i like him as a competitor you know and this is where i think in a sense yeah and i you know we're watching the sport of squid game and i'm like oh i hate him but he's he makes some really smart moves and i want to see how he plays the game who else would uh who else would kill him who else but quackmile there are other ways there are other ways i hate the way he dies too we'll get to it all right well um yeah there are the things there are the ways to sort of partly partly i the reason i don't like the the thought of her surviving even though she didn't play the game is a is it fair that she doesn't have to play this game when everyone else does what are the choices you have killer because she's killer because she didn't get any opportunity to play no she had plenty of opportunity just everyone fucking hated her so you deserve to die in the squid game world because nobody wants to yeah because you can't form an alliance why would that mean anything to be fair someone won't is it always going to be because they hate it or is it just going to be ultimately well i think i mean i think if if if built into the game is like the old man like he he could have died and it's like oh fuck here my guess right he uh he couldn't form an alliance even though he's old if the concept is even in its own strange way sportsmanship and fairness i think it would be bizarre that the person who is left out in terms of they there's not a teammate if they killed that person this game is not fair i know it's not fair but what i'm saying is that from their perspective of fairness is it fair uh sorry no teammate you die you don't even get a chance to compete i feel like probably strange considering his dichotomy within and out and the thing is i can see some weight to the idea that she doesn't get a partner because everyone fucking hates her i understand that but like they that's not always going to be the case old man was almost without a teammate not because any other reason when he's old and also the meaningful reason why neither of them get a partner is because there is one person has to not get a partner yeah and so that person doesn't even get to compete like from the perspective of the people who make the game it makes more sense to me that if the option is you get to advance because there's no one to play with or alternatively you die because you get nobody to play with i feel like they just let you skip i disagree especially when how willing when it when it's revealed how willing they are to just let them kill each other and and like they just let them murder each other in the night and they're like ah fuck it okay now you can stop killing each other i don't i don't think they're concerned with like oh well you know it's not your fault really because eventually someone was not going to be able to find a partner so you don't have to go through this particular trial i feel like there's a difference between them killing each other and person who doesn't get to join a team through the lack of numbers should just be executed i feel like that's a step further yeah because the problem is and i think as well it's like remember it probably would have been the old man and like it's they're devising the games so it's like you know we have 30 people and they go this is a 28 player game so two of you got to die it's like wow that's okay yeah like all right okay well well didn't we okay so i'm a little confused now i don't mean to change the topic we talked about before if they didn't have the perfect number of people for say tug of war that they would have contingencies for that we did and this would be the contingency that that she just doesn't have to play this game if we had 63 people and they split into teams of 10 and there's three people left over they get to skip yeah that because if it was like 59 in people i don't know that they would let the whole team they just have to pick something else i imagine it would be by degrees okay so then like well there's another option on the table potential that she is added on to one of the other teams that was in this game how does that how is that how would that work well they're they're like obviously what we discover in this is that you can play marvin bunch of different ways so there are ways yeah but how would you enforce that on another team though like another team all right one of you now has to play with her you have to you don't even get a choice in the matter well they don't get along yeah but they don't give a fuck about fairness so they they believe that they do in a way that is flawed in a form yeah in a flawed format they believe in it which is one of our issues but but it's operating under that you know and um to be fair some people are saying like well if they figure this out they're not they're just going to choose to not be in teams so think about tug of war if you want to get a team of guys that are barely and buff and one of them is like i don't want to join because if i don't then i can just skip and it's like bro i think you have better chances here than hoping no one else picks you because you're a big strong good dude and that goes the same for a lot of people might be if you understand the game you want to you think you have better chances of that than not being potentially like forced into a group beyond a lot of people who are trying to escape it i think there's this kind of works uh works out but the thing is there's so little games i don't think people realize the uh the skip option even exists before it's too late to even make use of it yeah mm and and also there's the aspect of they probably want to keep as many people for as long as they can yeah and that's why why would they incentivize them to kill each other in the night if they well so i don't actually like that i don't know if you guys want to talk about that now um i think it's bullshit i i agree i agree i just think it seems to conflict with the idea that they want to it is as late in the i guess it i'm trying to think of what it facilitates story wise it makes for a pretty strong action scene it convinces uh andrew to join their team um it creates a lot of paranoia and concern and it's often it's going to be cited as part of the point that people will tear each other apart rather than work together sort of thing um but i i don't so what i what i really hate about it is when they describe it as it will get rid of the weaklings and it's like i mean yeah maybe you might just get rid of random people who knows yeah but like why are you trying to get rid of the weaklings quote-unquote yeah it's a game like marbles yeah oh gosh we don't have weaklings for marbles or the the um stepping stones even the jumping one yeah like it doesn't really matter how strong or weak you are for that one in fact those slimmer and thinner whatever you are for stepping stones potentially the way better yeah um so yeah i can i can totally buy that there's a way in which letting her skip is more fair than um killing her but i the thing i don't like is that she doesn't have to endure this horrible traumatic thing when everyone else does because she basically walks away with an advantage here it's like she's rewarded for being unable to find someone to partner up with because everyone hates her but that's the specific information that they go it could have been that they do what they do and alternatively again you keep talking about her it could have been that the old man gets rewarded because he's old and everybody just assumes that he's worthless yeah i could just frame it like that and it's possibly yeah it could it could have i'm just sure but you keep framing it negatively that's and the problem now is i'm starting to wonder do you just wanted is the fact you wanted that seeping into what you believe they should pick no it's not you really want to get it sounds like i really don't like her i'll admit that for sure and i just see i see the fact that she was the only one left out as a reflection of her failing to play a certain aspect of the game in which she can build alliances and that anyone would want to play with her that's well so that's why there were 40 people then she would have had someone to play i was about to say new anyway had like this is the thing she i doubt she was outcasted by literally every person they're hating her i imagine most people didn't even well a lot of people wouldn't have known who she is um and the fact is if some if they were like you just said if there were 40 players and there was just one girl left over one guy left over whatever and they're like well i guess we're partners i doubt they would have gone i refuse to play with this person no nobody likes the thug but they all want to be on his team yeah the thug is a piece of shit but he's probably the most popular yeah right like if you could you could be playing the game really badly in that regard but just physical advantages like being strong like helps out i just don't know why you guys i just don't they're not matter for you i wouldn't i wouldn't say they're mad at me either no i i what i'm what i'm saying is that i can see what you're saying i just narratively there's a part of it that i find really unsatisfying and that it's and and that it's you know because of these circumstances she gets to skip what ultimately is a very very brutal and traumatic trial that everyone else has to go through and in terms of narrative satisfaction though setting her up with the thug and then ending her like that would have been way more unsatisfying i suppose i don't understand a lot of i mean why you would say that well yeah they spend a lot of time with those two and you know getting them to be pitted against one another with the betrayal and i don't like i don't dislike her yeah i i i wanted to see her kill that man i i see a human being in it i'm sorry i see a person that's been really trying to make us all work yeah she's clearly she's doing what she can do to survive and he's just like evil because i can totally believe that if thug was not as evil as he was and he wasn't that back stabby she would have absolutely stuck with him to the end oh yeah well she's willing to stick with the the good guy team except that obviously they get split into pairs and then she's pulled off it yeah i think she she will yeah i totally see i wouldn't i wouldn't have i didn't see her as someone um who's incredibly loyal in that regard i wouldn't call it loyal um i what i thought rags was more so that she's less like she's not invested in being an evil person i would i guess it's she's not as actively uh disloyal as she could be um yeah and plus there's that aspect of i can see this person operating as a good person in society or a normal person in society thug is just a bad person through and through she's an opportunist he's just a fucking a thug with a piece of shit he's a bad man she'll back stab probably where she feels she needs to but if she can get through life without doing that i feel like she probably would she's just annoying like it with a lot of a dialogue um i definitely i'm not i'm not basing only on the annoying factor i i disagree i would find it i i don't like the fact that she killed him i don't find it as narratively satisfying as you do so i you know that's because i like that's all it was set up for her to be really at the end especially when you have like well she says if you betray me you know i'll kill you it'd be really weird to have those things and then she just dies here because she didn't get i would be i i have very specific problems with the way that he is unable to prevent her from killing that way we'll get we'll get to the episode don't worry uh so i what you're saying there is that you don't find it satisfying for different reasons to what we're talking about here like in general of the two options you still don't like the one that ends up being for more specific reasons in the episode uh that was there's a lot of vagary in the sentence so i didn't quite follow what i'm saying is like you're saying that as much as it makes sense that she would knock him out you don't like the way that it happens well that's definitely part of it yeah so you know i i i i concede it is it is perfectly fair and reasonable that she is allowed to skip this i as a matter of taste i don't like it for the reasons i specify um i'll be completely honest with you when i was watching it i felt like if she got killed because she didn't get to get in a team that it would have been pretty lame i was like that's the really yeah just that just sucks but pretty darn disappointed how to accept it i think i could have rationalized the way in my head because they're not exactly hyper consistent um but i think it made way more sense that uh that she gets spared as a result of everyone assuming that she would be a horrible person to partner up with it's almost like an irony especially because just the fact that she's in that room waiting for him pisses the thug guy off yeah um fair enough but um i think arguments can be made that they would do both both of those things could have happened and i think we could still square away the um well i don't know that we will be able to square away the fucking philosophy of the people who organized this whole thing um definitely no yeah we won't be able to i don't think we'll be able to uh but yes we'll do our best we have our teams and uh the the complication of course is just the what is this game going to be and how are we going to win and um the hope is it's going to be a game that the old man has some experience with and that they can maybe have a chance because it's not going to be muscle related and uh turns out they are correct marbles i don't know if it has a more specific name i think it does right um uh isn't it called uh knob like ganbu or something isn't that the name no no no that's my friend that's the friend all right yeah yeah i'm more gamble maybe it's just called marbles i don't know yeah pretty much it might be that yeah well that's the thing too it's not even a specific game their whole job is to come up with a game and then just take each other's marbles not common the common game played with them apparently is the one where it's like wages of how many are in your hand and stuff there's a lot of people are playing that one um then they're all the ones yeah which to be fair i would probably opt to not play the chance one i'd be like let's play i'd rather play the one where you throw the ball into the hole sort of thing oh yeah against the wall yeah i'd prefer that too um and yeah as they enter the old man is like seeing all of the the brick the fences and everything and he's saying it reminds me of his old neighborhood which is just going to slide us in to a development that's going to keep happening here yeah and yeah they're really happy because together they're both pretty good at marbles they know it and they can probably take out other people which is interesting because they know that they would be killing them but they're just happy to know that they can survive yeah as a result and yes they are ganbu now which means real good friends and he said let's give each other everything we are best fucking friends yeah we share everything and and to do pinky thing to make it official yeah horrible yeah ganbu and it just yeah i'm glad pinky swearing has cross cultural yes relevancy um and it's nicely done because i think up to this point you sort of look back and you're like yeah i'm glad these two uh are together they're they're cute i'm this is gonna be great maybe and um yeah he's like we're gonna take all the marbles in this town it's gonna be great excellent and then the announcers like hey you uh you're all done doing the happy moment because about time for it to end like you you gotta play the game of choice with your partner and the player who uh to take all 10 marbles from their partner wins um oh no yeah uh this hit fantastically for me when i was first watching it because um yeah all the teams were built with the idea of like a trust or a love uh and working together and now they've been told that one of them has to die and it's going to be down to the the team to decide it essentially with a game or something else um which is incredibly cruel and creates many forms of uh drama yeah we've got conflict everywhere yeah we got we're basically doing a different thing with every single pairing because with like thug man maybe this is jumping ahead like thug thug man and thug man there's is definitely more of the like overt conflict one of like all right fuck it now we gotta we gotta beat each other um yeah they seem pretty chill about it i think he even just goes shit bad like meanwhile uh songwoo is an ali at first he wants to try and just like all right let's just play let's try and do it and not get too emotional about it yeah um and of course until all these are totally destroying him well yeah i guess we'll get it well so this is gonna be this is a tough one to do because as you go it progresses each story piece by piece about six scenes each or something like that so i'm not even sure how we should go about this but i was thinking maybe do one pairing at a time or should we do it some other way um the pairing at a time at a time yeah yeah that's probably the way to go i think we'll we'll leave old man for lost we can go in order of the the the way the episode does the payoffs the first obviously being thugman thugman is the low stakes one we don't really mind who wins that one but we're still interested in seeing what happens yeah um so yeah for those um for those listening who have no idea what this episode is even about just to make sure you understand they were told to pair off in in pairs that they believe would be like a powerful pairing or a trusted pairing and stuff and then they're told that they have to compete um and the winner obviously wins the loser dies which is pretty rough for a lot of the people involved and you if you were listening we got the pairings of the ones we just listed but we'll probably go through them now um because the way this episode works is literally just showing them with their games and what they talk about and then the result i guess you could call it pretty low-actiony it feels almost like a bottle episode it's not quite um but it's yeah pretty meaningful uh in terms of what we're dealing with so yeah i figure it's going to be hard for me to get the right visuals for all of this because i don't i don't know where each of the scenes are ever what is but i guess we can start with thugman um does anyone else want to play well i know that the the story with the thugman is that they're playing and it ain't going too great for thug um and i'm probably through he's like fuck it can we can we change games which is like allowed um i don't have a problem i think that makes sense you can pick and choose the games that you play to frame it right it would have been play a game get the marbles and then his his thug friend would have been like right then we're playing marbles right and this is like that's the marble game marbles it is and then he was like you chose that i didn't choose that i want to choose a game yeah yep which you know he lines there you get to play a different one and it starts to shift away and things start to change um and then that they're throwing their little marbles into the holes and thugman is losing but then the other guy throws his marble and it bounces wrong and it knocks thug's marbles into the hole and he wins it do be like that sometimes i just want to highlight because i always want to watch this fucking episode thugman two i guess we could just call him his fucking face when he realizes he's knocked his ball in yeah if i would if i was thugman two i feel like in that situation he would be totally trying to be like that's not part of the rules that doesn't count that's not how it goes but he just sort of accepts his death i feel like that's perfectly reasonable that he would be like i've definitely lost yours is in the time to run instead of thinking through it being like how could i argue this from a rules because i think song who would do what you're talking about freezes and of course the fact that he's sitting there trembling it's like right so you know you've lost really like you do you can't you can't talk your way out of this you recognize that you've lost yeah the actor looks like he's passing one of the hardest and then yeah he tries to run away and yeah he's dead um and i don't know what would end the scene that is shot though where like there's a the the guy who was meant to kill him is standing behind him as he gets shot with the machine gun the smg and it's like hmm you're gonna kill your own body yeah like it is a bit awkward uh i'll show it why would you shoot it like that why why would you not why do that well um let me get it up because i remember um thinking about it so if you look at the the angle um i think one could argue because the guy behind him is just showing up you can see it on our end i think the one shooting doesn't even know that guy is there before he's firing anyway um but the way this is shot right boom boom boom boom boom it's like oh any one of those bullets could have gone through and shot him yeah but uh ultimately it would have zero consequence because like yeah triangle man is dead i guess like whatever oh did he make like sweeping shots too i didn't i didn't call how like he was firing but he looked like he was sweeping the barrel or i was like jesus age christ dude i only have one one complaint about the whole thug and two uh that line doesn't hear yeah no it's that they there's a moment where the idea seems to come into one or both of their heads i can't remember exactly how it plays out that like can i just beat the shit out of you and steal the marbles and they act as if no violence isn't allowed you have to play the marble game fairly but the only thing is the the games uh the rules of the game never explicitly say that correct i wonder why he couldn't just punch him steal the marbles go hey i have all the marbles song woo and there's a rule for that song woo laid it out well i was gonna say song woo and thug to both reference this rule we never hear it but i think just to be good faith we have to assume that was said and we just didn't hear it at some point or whatever really because we all i feel two characters referencing it yeah they wouldn't have made it up i i guess yeah so you're saying the idea is that it was said but we just didn't there was between scenes or whatever we we have to assume that that's the case yeah okay fine i mean i guess i would have preferred it was explicit yeah i think yeah because nobody resorts to violent none of the groups resort to violence there must be an understanding that's so strong none of them do it i it would have helped me so much well they did wait hold on but in the uh when song woo he grabs ali and starts screaming at him he gets a gun pointed at him true oh yeah that's another good point so all all it would have really taken to fix that for as if they just said it when we heard the played over some people in chat several people in chat have said they say it i'm trying to find when they say it so i wasn't no good i okay so and also people mentioning that like the guards that are there for a reason right they're all with the other pair you can argue the guards are there just to execute a little yeah true yes that's true and to inspect the games make sure nobody's fucking around i guess players please take one bag each from the staff member instead of 10 marks please check to confirm the number um and then the and they say a couple things we come back well i guess the thing that throws a wrench into it as well in this game using your set of 10 marbles play the game of your choice with your partner the player who manages to take all 10 marbles from their partner wins and then she repeats the instructions that's it wait and also didn't because song woo when he because i was about to say like he stole the the marbles he said like i didn't use violence to get him why would he say that unless there was an assumption where have you been i referenced that already yeah sorry i don't know how i blanked on it yeah my bad no i didn't someone asked if i watched the dub no this is based on the subtitles it's never i'm basing this on the subtitles maybe i don't unless it's it could be said and not subtitled i'm not sure i've seen a lot of people say in my subtitles it's there so now i'm wondering oh that's weird and the thing it like this is such a fucking problem i've also pulled up a transcript that i has a transcript and it's not listed there either it's just i believe that that would be something they would place into the game to avoid that yeah all i i just wanted to hear it once no i understand but the thing is like seeing it getting enforced and having characters acknowledges exist that's good enough for me as a yeah that's three years i had forgotten the part where it was by the guy who pulled up the gun i had forgotten about that so i i see what you're saying um but it could just be that maybe it was said in the subtitles didn't cover it i don't know but i i would have preferred it be explicit there's no reason not to include that it helps us as viewers just make sure we understand but there are many people have said there are different subs that's very strange there are different subs yeah i think in the file i have there's three english options oh fuck why i've got forced english track 10 english sdh english i'm not entirely sure what the differences are all right that's so we can um since we're doing the groups uh i don't know rags dash caps you want to take the next grouping and describe what happens or uh well i guess we can do i get it of course we'll save arguably the best for last uh next up let's take um let's take our two ladies sure let's take andrew and andrew too andrew andrew too so andrew we've spent uh quite a bit of time with since the beginning but andrew too was a fairly recent addition to our cast of uh lovable characters and i think it's in a very befitting way because they're both kind of distant and uh you know it fits their personality i feel where andrew essentially just says uh let's just fucking get it over with um and then andrew too says well you know we got 30 minutes or however long it was um i mean we can just decide it at the very end let's just uh let's wait till the end and essentially just have a chat and they we we learned about you know a lot of the back stories for both of these characters the tragic back stories for a lot of these characters or for both of them which informs what ends up happening at the end where i guess you have andrew too right uh andrew too her she had an abusive uh abusive parents essentially particularly the father really and he was a pastor which informs why she is very not keen on people praying around her she's kind of soiled on that idea uh pastor is implied that he molested her or abused her essentially and killed uh her mother and she didn't she got sent to what happened to her after that she got sent to like was it she killed the dad after that and she doesn't really have any family nowhere to go there's just nothing for her she's just alone there's nothing happening uh kind of in her life when she got out of prison or juvie or whatever yeah fresh out of fresh out of the slammer and she believed at the time that she was being picked up to follow through on her father's debt um but rather it was squid game people being like hey want to join the game and he's like yeah okay which um is not a fucking great backstory uh by that i mean it's not a fun fucking life to have lived uh you lost a whole family she may actually be hunted down to finish off the debts her dad has no one cares about her not fun nope not fun at all so that's uh that's one side of that coin and the other is of course andrew andrew has a history this is where we learned about the north korea stuff uh i believe the father died getting out of north korea with her he died of was it was complications or injuries that he had sustained i think so um and the mother is still in the north and her her little brother is here but he's in like a foster home or an orphanage um i think it's an orphanage and she's looking to get the mom out of north korea later get a you know family for the kid that sort of thing get the family back together essentially um and she's doing that they're using whatever means that she has uh available to her which in this sense is going to be she's very she's got some her frisky fingers as we have seen with her sneaking things in and out of uh well into squid game with her cutting pockets and pick pocketing multiple things from people so that is andrew's sort of backstory and so she's also not had a great life uh she's definitely in the process of making her life better but you know she doesn't trust people she's kind of learned that she needs to do what she needs to do by herself uh relying on people is not a it's not a reliable thing to do so the two of them you know i have their chat and chit and time passes we get their conversation throughout the episode time is winding down tick tock tick tock there needs to be a winner you have to decide the winner so at the end they just decide all right what we're going to do is we're just going to come up with a game here if you throw a marble at the wall i'll throw a marble at the wall whoever's closest wins right and gets all the marbles and so andrew makes a shot it's not too good right but who knows uh now andrew too she steps up and she's got her marble in her hand and then she goes ahead and lines up her shot and then she drops it right in front of her feet and this of this this makes andrew very upset right this makes andrew very upset that she's essentially giving up winning she's she's essentially sacrificing herself so that andrew can continue um because andrew too she says i don't really have anything to live for uh i ain't got much going on with me but you you've got family you've got stuff to do you go ahead and you go on um oh i forget they talk about what they're going to do with their money uh a little you know nice little thing that they do or you know andrew lays out i'm gonna you know get my mom out help my brother you know to try to start a normal life you know reasonable stuff that you want to do for your fam uh up in the north which one's good to judge your island i think right uh yeah and um there's the thing about the mojitos uh in hana lulu right or hawaii deves i think she says all deves yeah yeah yeah um but that is i really like this pairing because we get a lot of slow build up with andrew little by little opens up starts to kind of learn to trust people starts starts taking a little risk like here you have the water i'll help you out here and there i'll take a risk but then we finally get to see that deep down she really really does kind of value people around her and she just expresses that in a much more reserved way she doesn't she does she really keeps her emotions super close to herself yeah i think it's the first time we see a shout yeah uh good pairing feel free to add whatever you'd like i'm not good at recounting events yeah well it's it's just it's really well done um i've already seen people in chat saying they actually found this one the saddest moment in the show which is uh fair um yeah yeah i was i was about to say that you know the i was about to say save the best for last place i arguably there that was a very that was a tactical arguably i think because there's so there's that's that's a good one there i think this one and uh with our protagonist or the two two best i think uh just for hitting the hitting the heartstrings because boy this was uh i misty eyed a lot in this episode this was really good one i really like this so um yeah just to make it clear she she chooses um if some people still confused say biak i believe is today but i keep butchering it so that's why we went with adrew as a joke okay but she's uh she basically says like go get your brother meet your mother make the family i have nothing there's fucking no point in me living instead of you the just some cold calculus of the emotionalisms i guess and yeah she just tears up quite a bit because um it's just harsh as fuck and yeah you've got oh the way they line up the payoffs in this episode man just uh be relentless at one point but yeah we see her walking away and they frame it just right that she's behind her she can't look at her as well obviously but um this skills performance is pretty good as well considering the very limited time she has yeah they um they make a lot of use of this character like this is really efficient we don't get much of her at all but they really make us feel for her we're sad for her backstory and it doesn't come across as a contrived backstory to make a plot happen the acting is phenomenal for the character who isn't a very let's say this character isn't particularly like vibrant and jovial though i don't blame her considering the circumstances but she's kind of flat in a sense uh i don't mean that negatively though she's kind of reserved like this pairing of characters they go really well because they're all they're very similar to each other and the way that they express themselves um but at the same time you could tell them apart in the words that they use you know neither of them seem excited and energetic but just the the dialogue that they make like if if you got if you blurt it if you blurt out the names and you just got text versions of their conversations you could tell them apart just by the text you could tell them apart just by how they communicate yeah so and uh be strong juxtaposition already with the early one being a brute force trying to beat each other this one is sacrifice just straight up and i think your last line is uh i'm honored you chose to be my partner i think yeah yeah so good that was that's my favorite of this particular episode really really strong nothing but good thing to say about it uh so who wants to take ali and songwoo i'll take this one um so i was hoping maybe we can also kind of clear up a confusion that i had throughout this exchange okay fine but um so this one starts out ali and songwoo are together here and they're going to go ahead and play the even and odds game that both that the old guy and uh gihan are already playing and um songwoo is not doing too well in this one ali here is mopping this game up even though he's never played it before and songwoo starts to eventually break down the more he loses until he's down to his like last one marble he starts losing his shit songwoo starts getting angry he stands up and he starts shaking ali like rather violently asking if he's cheated and that he's lying to him somehow and then that's when one of the triangle men comes up and aims his loaded revolver right at songwoo just to break the fight up so we've already inferred that they've tried the violent they've tried violence just even just a little bit and uh they've realized oops this is uh this is not how i have to go about things i can't just throttle ali here and just get the marbles by force i have to be more clever about this and that's what songwoo is all about songwoo breaks down and he's like i'm so fucking sorry ali listen like i don't want to die please help me out on this but ali is like no dude i've got a family to look out for too yeah so i can't just give up here dude and so you know after a good amount of begging from songwoo is saying like look at what i did for you look at this i gave you bus tickets and i stood guard i did this this and that look at what i've done for you you can't do this to me ali is not budging so songwoo decides that he is going to try and make it so both of them win so he's got a plan and he's going to try and tell it to ali now here's where i get confused on what songwoo's plan is and i'm hoping maybe we can discuss what he's trying to say from what i've gathered songwoo here is saying like okay here's what you do we're going to grab our marbles we're going to divide them up again and you're going to hang on your marbles you're going to go around and you're going to see if there are other players who are have still not decided who the winner is and you're going to play with them and try to gather their marbles and that way both of us have 20 marbles in the end and then we both go not quite okay so go ahead and clear that up for me if you will yeah so the deception in fall is first he says something i think is pretty agreeable but then also not in the he's like we're gonna have people at the end of this who haven't decided to win her and what are they gonna do shoot them that makes no sense and then ali is like yeah i guess so when it's like no that could that might be what they do like no they would just shoot them probably by the way yeah i think that's what's gonna happen if yeah if you don't if you expect because violence is off the table if you too don't essentially cooperate to make sure one of you lives you both die which is i think part of a that's a key thing and what makes this a super interesting uh game and so he says we will keep out 20 you can hold the 20 and what i love about this is he's like you can have my remaining one as a sign of trust and then he just puts it in his own pocket like song was a little bitch like a clever bitch uh so it's just giving a sense of like yeah you can trust me um and so yeah he's the idea being the you uh we need to find i think he wants him to find the weakest teams right in prep and which ones who aren't finished he's like you know you sit the left side i'll sit the right side we'll meet back here when we run out of time and we will fight them with our 20 marbles as a team like we intended to um yeah he just convinces ali that that's going to be the this the scenario that's how this will turn out and obviously the language i think when i was listening to the explanation i i was a little confused as well but i thought that the whole point of that was that it was a little confusing yeah i think so just because he was trying to do something therefore i didn't try and super hard and core try and understand it because i i thought that was kind of the point that they were going for mm-hmm yeah he's i think the idea is he just wants to find the right people to fight to get a win and so right he says like you gotta look out for who's prepared look for one that i think he says is it they want to find one that's old under yeah like over 50 or under 30 something like that which is just like criteria that'll take time for him to try and you know look for i thought yeah i honestly figured he gave him that criteria because most people here don't actually suffice in terms of that bracket there's a lot of people who are literally that bracket so it's going to take him longer to be able to find the right team to fight sort of thing yeah let's buy a little time have him go off on his thing while i'm doing my dastardly deeds indeed and this is where thugman 2 gets blown away by like a big old bunch of rapid fire which gets ali's attention and in this moment sung woo swaps the marbles well ali is looking toward the action he swaps the marbles with another bag and then he gives it over to ali after he's done tearing his shirt up for a nice little necklace for ali to wear right keep it safe so he's like there you go keep your bag safe right here you don't want anybody stealing it from you so here's my shirt all torn up for you in a nice little necklace now get on out there buddy old pal and so he is left to wander aimlessly with this bag around his neck sung woo then leaves the area he heads on up to the guard and he says all right there you go i have acquired all of these marbles and i didn't use violence to do it and uh so as he's leaving we go ahead and we cut back to ali who is running out of time he goes he goes back to where sung woo told him to meet up which is where they played and that's when he makes the horrible discovery that those marbles in the bag were not in fact marbles he was he had filled this bag full of a bunch of rocks out a little garden that sounded enough like marbles because of the smooth surface yeah and so ali can see the hasty droppings of all these little pebbles just all over the ground from the garden behind him and uh he completely duped ali and ali's left there to let tears well up in his eyes realizing that he's been duped before he gets shot in the head yeah it's a i found that shot so fucking powerful where they just show him realizing it and then the camera just pans to the side yeah um and it's it's rough as fuck because ali is nothing but a fucking legendary person yeah he was he was nothing but kind and trusting to win that's yeah that's that's what they argue i think with this is that yeah exactly he had no he really had no chance um to naive despite being an incredibly adept player in terms of just each of the games he does quite well at but um yeah i have one i have one question about this and i i do like everything they're doing one question is why he why he believes that if they haven't finished the game that they won't just shoot them because it seems like all the evidence would point to the fact that they would just shoot him literally just that he was told by someone that wouldn't make sense right i think that is enough to make him think like i guess so yeah because all you have to do is have his brainwave be like yeah what if everybody jams up then you wouldn't just kill everybody i guess the game continues i think there's a level of trust that ali puts in song woo's assessments of the situation for sure definitely plays off as yeah not to mention has ali really expressed any deal of skepticism very much when it came to these games and these plans i don't think so he's yeah he's not been naive he's not yeah that's why that's why i think his flaw is he's too trusting and too nice um yeah which is what it is his tragedy that's the thing he's he's it's a story yeah um he's not stupid he's not like smart he's that it like his intelligence is never really something that they talk about either way it's just that his problem is that if you could call it a problem i guess you could as he's too trusting of other people and he reminds me prior to all this he reminds me of all the things he's done for him and how he should trust him so this it's yeah yeah he doesn't want to take advantage of other people and he doesn't want to hurt other people he's doing it if he has to do it it's because he has to yeah song woo put it up away yeah because so often during the show he has been very reverent towards song woo he has been very thankful for all of the things he calls him sir all the time he's very very respectful um so that is and again that's what it is go ahead no i i do get it and i'm not saying it's a problem it's just definitely on a first watch the what seemed like overwhelming evidence there's no way they would just not kill you if you didn't finish the game or complete the game seems so obvious that it that in my head it kind of outweighed the other factors that you just i honestly think it wouldn't have worked on people like us we would have been like no we're finishing this game uh the way that we started it yeah there's no way that they're gonna be like oh all the people you didn't finish oh you you're both fine then just go back right that's the thing we'll do sudden death even though we've never you know i just i think that's part of song woo choosing ali not just the strength but also you can manipulate them quite easily mm and then i guess someone is putting out song woo is a financial financer who cheated on people hence his debts um he i think i absolutely believe he would do it i oh yeah i mean i wish i would do it yeah i wished ali i don't know i wait there is there is something in ali when i first i'll just say i'll just say the first time i watched it it like they were making him a little too dumb but the more i think about it it's i i i lean more towards what you guys are saying that's all i yeah i have a hard time with the word dumb i don't i wouldn't reclassify ali is dumb just again or the nice my my first watch was the this was kind of a dumb moment and then thinking more about it i can see how am i in character sense ali is a character who has consistently worked at a job where he's not receiving his pay because he's been told he'll get it like then when he sees the guy with it he doesn't let that shit slide yeah and that's what i think is happening here which is so fucking tragic that tia is because he knows sanghu was lying to him the whole time yeah um his best friend in the whole game yep the person that i who helped me that i really really respected the person that you know that i if i if only i had to kept those marvels you know i was played i was tricked and it was because i was too pure and i liked um that along with the song who loses the part that's gotten him in here in the fucking first place he's terrible at gambling like i guess and he the gambling game of just i'm sure it's this it's not and he gets fucking angry because of 50 chance 50 50 chance to lose and he loses what three times in a row he's like no that doesn't make fucking sense statistically it's like you must be cheating it's just like this is probably the fucking shit that got him in here like yeah that is mm-hmm yeah if yeah getting getting a 50 50 three times in a row is a one and eight chance um uh one one of the things i thought when i was watching it is that is it song who am i saying that right yeah i think so close enough yeah close enough that i i think part of my problem is that he he didn't make the case convincingly enough me but then the more i think about it the more that i think the language barrier helps him or helps make sense of this a bit more too you know that he was the first person to tell ali that he will explain the games to him and he'll get him through this and yeah up to this point he would have so yeah no i think i think that makes sense yeah but i when i first watched it i i came away with that they made him a little too dumb but i uh my mind i think i don't know if ringy was the same i remember thinking about some things but like when they paid those two up and revealed this i was like yeah so one of these characters have been characterized previously as naive one of these characters have been characterized as fucking ruthless i know how this is gonna end yeah yeah especially when they showed that he was losing the betting game i was like oh song who's gonna do something yeah the um and i i don't blame him you know it's one of those things where you're like i i i don't blame him it's like well we you walk out of this and you hate song who for taking advantage of a really good person that you really like and then you think about yourself in his shoes and you're like uh i mean hmm for you you can do it man i don't think it'll be that bad do it for me come on for you yeah what's what what is your australia hail sound like like a machine gun outside or like oh god everything is worse fringy are you gonna do it can you do it do it let's hear it fringy we believe in you oh for context it's hailing where fringy is right now and he said he has stuff to say it's like well before we leave this morning i was gonna say we can't move on to the next one until he has his things said exactly and we have that you have to do it or fucking type it if you're not gonna say it do you think like as soon as he typed that out he's he got up and went to get a coffee so he did all of this is falling on defy is just like there's no idea what we're saying or maybe uh or maybe a hail golf ball just kind of blew through the window and now he has to deal with that i wouldn't rule it out bring me are you alive prince olly naive is he i'll give oh no that is that is cruel though i guess we're gonna have to move on all right well i guess so which leaves i guess i'm just hit the un just hit the button hit the the mute button to unmute yourself and then begin speaking yeah bring us a little button you can do it you can do it do it until he rudely interrupts the person talking about the next thing i'm gonna have to wait until and um yeah cap that leaves you and the old man's door how do i have to summarize it i can do that i think that makes sense yeah i'm sure you can do it go right ahead all right see i i i on a rewatch i only made it up to episode five so i haven't rewatched any but i will do my son of a so or so basic basic idea is that they play the version of marbles where it's the odds or evens version of the marbles game and uh things are not going well for our protagonist and he sees signs of man's dementia creeping in and so he thinks himself hmm a wonder fight so a little too fast i was gonna say because the way it starts is old man is like i love this neighborhood this great and our character like hey we got to play a game we're gonna play and it's it's interesting from a character standpoint that he's like having loads of fun he's like i don't play the game and then he fucking pushes him against the wall and he's like we've got to play this fucking game and i think he says like i can't i have to get out of here and it's just like hmm we've already we pushed our character a little bit and uh you know the the core values are starting to overtake any sort of superficial ones that may have been there but you know it's it's interesting to think about but karen um okay so uh he decides after seeing that uh our old man is not quite a hundred percent there or at least he perceives it that way he decides oh maybe he can convince him that he actually said odd when he said evens because he doesn't remember what he said and so well that wasn't oh see if i'm missing stuff i think feel free to jump in okay that well that wasn't the protagonist's idea from the start yeah that to be for the way that suddenly gave him that opening is and which i think is important when considering bonus contexts that were both in this episode later but um worth mentioning that i think it's fucking amazingly done the camera just sits on him realizing he's lost it's all over because he guessed odd when it's even and as the camera is creeping closer to him you just hear old men say which one did you say and he just like frozen until he slowly looks at him like because that's an opportunity right there um and that's how it starts the deception is given as an option and then he starts to facilitate himself yes uh i think you should keep retelling it because i'm clearly forgetting yeah our basically the this basically all of this can be summed up in one sentence which is as the old man gains his marbles he loses his marbles well said right the goodies so uh i mean i you want i can uh go ahead and because i've been i've been trying to go for it yeah i've been kind of like watching in the background uh while you guys were going over the two the two edwards or whatever we're calling them i forget andrew's andrew so um all right so the old man has then given him the in that he's going to start playing with his memory in a sense like oh should know what have you done again this thing the genbu thing is later um so the odds and even game continue to be played and the protagonist keeps on using this in because the old guy's like oh what did i say and he keeps changing his guess whenever he opens his hand and so he keeps winning and winning and then eventually um the old guy comes up with only one marble left or rather first the guy thinks that he's won he's got all the marbles because the guy dumped out his bag all the marbles came out he got them all and he lost them all and so the old guy's like oh dang i'm all out hey tell you what can you um can i borrow marbles from you i want to keep playing but then the but then the protagonist is like nope i'm uh i'm i'm done so he goes up to the guard hands him his bag but then the old guy pulls another marble right before that the old man is holding open his hand he sees three and he's like right next round just closes it and is like how many do i have it's an our guy's just fucking tear it up because like yeah you just showed me because he can you just showed me and the progress of yeah extremely poor memories yeah and he's he's uh already come to terms with the fact that this was a choice he made and this is the end point um and because when he's like oh i don't have any more marbles let me borrow one is that shot where they show it like the full screen is filled up with his hand holding the marbles he's just crushing it with his hand he's like i can't it's fucking sad i gotta i gotta get out of here but then the old guy digs into his pocket he's got one more marble he says hey i've got one more i'm still in it but then as a protagonist is ready to go back you want to sit back down the old guy gets back up and he continues wandering around like he was earlier and wearing out the clock oh it's it's it's even better than that moment yeah it's even better than that ass because he's like he's counting his marbles thinking that's 20 and he goes i only have 19 and he went back over the old guy and he's just wandered away yeah yeah and so just yeah he's he's throwing a marble on the ground counts to 19 yeah yeah you're right and for like an atmosphere he just came to terms with having screwed this guy over and now he's got to go back to finding him reassessing getting back in the game and tricking him again like it's just like oh for fuck's sake because there's yeah because he can't possibly not guess it at this point he only has the one left so he knows he knows but see he's already like completely mentally broken down at this point and he still has to keep doing this so the old guy wanders further out and then he recognizes this spot and the old guy's like yeah this was my house we had wonderful children and we did all kinds of wonderful things he goes wandering into the yard and gihan is just he's like i really really need that marble man we have to keep playing right now and gihan is so mentally distraught at this point that he's grabbing and shaking the old guy like we have to keep playing we i need that marble old guys just talking about how as a kid he would watch his like brothers and sisters play games and how fun it was and how yeah it's kind of been a consistent thing of his where he reminisces about his childhood yeah and specifically watching people play games and enjoying games in general he loves he loves his games yeah so theme the um theme exactly so the old guy then says all right well i'll tell you what let's play one more time we're gonna bet it all one wins we just win it all my one marble for your all your marbles and we just bet it all and then gihan's like well wait a minute what i so all 19 marbles go to you if you win and he's just kind of nods his head like yeah we're gonna do that and gihan's like no dude what the hell that doesn't even make any sense then the old guy busts this out on him he says that doesn't make sense to you like tricking your friends to win the game and then gihan's like oh fuck you don't really say anything and he just frozen because of that yeah he's just completely frozen in that moment because he realized the old man hadn't actual was completely cognizant of what he was doing and he had essentially thrown the game on purpose and so it's complete like i don't think gihan says anything at all anymore at this point well yeah because i adore this moment because of the fact that in a neutral standpoint me having to put up 19 while you put up one doesn't seem fair but it's like but how did you acquire those 19 and so yeah calling him out for that eat this this righteous indignation of i shouldn't have to put up 19 and then it's like you fucking stole them all from me it's like got him and he was because obviously he was operating with the information that he believed the old man had and so it's just like yeah you shouldn't then he's like i have more than that and it's like well there goes the wind from my sails uh and yeah you said he has to sit there for a moment understanding the person that he is um because it feels incredibly fucked but at the same time i feel like pretty much anybody would have fallen into doing this um i have your life's on the line yeah he's looking for his family and stuff yeah yeah so gihan's done he's not saying a word anymore but the old man continues earlier on they were talking about ganbu about they were best friends and best friends will share everything with each other no matter what and he is reminiscing on that moment uh let me see if i can bring it back to where exactly what he said he says uh oh he's really slowly putting a mark so the old man eventually just grabs gihan's hand he puts them one marble in gihan's hand and he says go ahead just take it remember what we're talking it's yours anyway you remember what we were talking about earlier or ganbu man we're just talking we we're ganbu aren't we yeah don't you remember when you and i swore that we were ganbu buddies yeah he just ganbu always share everything with each other no matter what and gihan's completely losing it yeah he's just he's just yeah so we're all killed me and closes his fingers over his uh marble and just hugs him and he says thank you for giving me such a wonderful time you made all this very wonderful for me and uh they they they squeeze each other for a good long time and gihan's just sobbing his head off and the old man seems a okay with all of this he he's just says he's had fun he's made a friend and everything's okay and uh as the as gihan slowly leaves you see one of the pink suits aim the gun at the old man camera pans away from him for a good long while you hear the gunshot the pa says player one has been eliminated and we just leave over a big wide shot of this load of death all over this cute little set and uh that's it and it was right after he gave his name as well or il nam yeah yes obviously he couldn't remember it in episode three yeah and he was ready to get his name now yeah uh i so that's easily my favorite episode from the show um yeah i thought it was fantastic the only flaws i can come up with are just very very minor and almost preferential um super impressed with with how much they did with all the dynamics of these characters and i feel like they justified how they got them into this situation and i think that it works as well that the people in this world would want to generate these situations for the entertainment factor um at the same time it means more to us because we're very invested in these people as people and then to have built characters that are so different though to generate completely different scenarios that have incredibly strong payoffs i would argue but in different emotional ways i was i was just i was pretty blown away that's one of my favorite episodes of tv just in general it's good good good stuff uh one of the only things i don't like about this episode is something i wish it did that i just didn't cover is that i would have really liked to see the couple deal with this particular thing you're doing the next episode i don't uh i don't disagree but i don't know what we're cutting to put them into this i agree no for sure i i i wouldn't want to cut any ah the thug and thug two stuff maybe i like thug and thug two no no i wouldn't cut it completely i just i i would have i would have really liked to see the couple deal with this issue it's not really a flaw at all i just really want to know how that conversation went i mean i'm with you in a sense that i think we could have made the episode 10 minutes longer and we could have included that um at the same time i do think it's powerful to have seen them realize it and then we just see him later so we know um maybe there is a sense of value in being able to know that something else is happening this whole time that wasn't just regarding the characters we've come to know um but i mentioned we haven't followed either one of them throughout most of these episodes anyway i still would have liked to see it but um it's not really a criticism it's just uh do more because this episode was good so you're saying it's a great episode make it better i i don't know if i don't know if adding that kind of ruined the pacing and the timing of all these great reveals so i don't want to say that it needed it i just i really want to see that conversation because yeah i get you fascinating it's all i get it's all i have and there are additional things to comment about in this episode but only once we get the context the last episode so we shall return yeah uh that's that's the one other thing but we'll get there um seriously i i couldn't praise this particular episode enough i think it's fantastic uh and they end this is too bad we have the next episode i like the next episode but man do i have criticisms for it um i feel bad i free next episode it's called vip fringy hasn't been able to unmute yourself yeah fringy where'd you go frangai where'd you go fringy you don't even know if it would actually be loud or not fringy what did the hail get you were you killed in the hail fringy because he hasn't been able to talk about the song we'll pay off or the old man pay off i feel bad it's a it's a really good one let's just he was pretty moved by it i i it's like oh fringy where are you buddy i think we'll just have to NO! that was me sorry that actually scared me the e-move got him well i wonder if rags cried i did i was uh i was balling through this whole thing i was i tears are streaming down my cheeks this was uh really really great they definitely spent a lot of time and effort and talent to earn this uh from me it kind of it made my face hurt i was like trying to not try and my face hurt afterward i mean it's just exactly what i want out of my stories gives me all of the feels what i'm what i'm looking for um fringy what did you think of that payoff yeah fringy all right well when he finally gets back people will love to know he's truly speechless he's yeah he's he's crying right now he's just trying to compose himself that's what it is yeah our our wonderful uh summary has just moved him just out of the room so what i'll say now is that i think meddling rags saw this episode and then we had to sort of try and find a different time to watch because obviously it was fucking difficult to fit all this in within time but mel i think didn't see the next one for a decent chunk of days right i was i originally watched this all in one i was just so gripped on and i don't know what happened even with the detective storyline can you believe it um and but so the way bell watched it he was like you know that last episode when he starts up episode savage he's like oh you know that was uh that was quite that episode this one opens with just the shot is ali's corpse that he was like right thanks for inviting me like oh man yeah we're back yeah it's it's i just feel like it's a good visual to be like yeah how fucking rough was that anyway moving on we gotta keep going bet you loved him huh because now it gets the point now we're just like fucking hell remember when we had like 400 plus people now we're down to is it it's 18 now is it or 16 some like that i think so yeah 16 and uh yeah i think so funnily enough with this episode um this was the one where a lot of people i'd say a lot of people were surprised with thugs demise and they didn't think they thought he was going to be the end villain um i honestly thought it could never be thugman because he's not interesting um final boss compared to someone yeah he's just yeah he's just like he he's a good uh archetype and i i like the villain yeah but he's just he's not an interesting villain if that makes any sense if it were him he's definitely not more interesting agonist that again yeah protagonist then uh actual guy whose name i can't remember oh you're right 17 but one kills himself and yes chat i'm so fucking sorry this is the episode with the vip's are introduced um it's become a meme for coverage on this everyone hates the vip's and i'm not going to be disagreeing with that very much at all i hate them too we'll get there we'll get hey look at all the illustrations of the uh games yeah now it's become fucking clear as day but whatever we're never going to have them be acknowledged even when all the beds are cleared they're not going to acknowledge i hate it i know i hate him so much when the guy kills himself he's literally i know i know looking right at him um anyway we find out crazy lady is still alive and they're all just kind of like the fuck ever like they're all they've all just gone through what they've just gone through so they're probably just like she's just really happy and she mentions how it sucks when you're like a kid and left out in that way and um i think she said that fact it into their decision or whatever or that they mentioned it a rule they have or something like that she said yeah she said to prevent a kid from turning into an outcast um amazing isn't it regardless uh this is where frontman realizes that the receiver is in the wrong place and it's funny because this is what i was trying to get out but we couldn't get here yet uh there was praise given to oh nice noticing that i'll give you a plus in terms of that's cool that he noticed but i think it's a fucking negative that he announces to the person i have noticed you put the receiver down wrong i will now hunt you like what are you doing you idiot i know you're in here your gun is a smith and wesson revolver why is he saying it why is he saying any of that yeah why can't you just moralize the detective to be like see i'm really smart and i'm coming for you and look how smart i am i figured out all these things and i'm gonna keep talking so you know where i am also not calling in my my squid army so here's my good squad here's my alternative suggestion just be like lovely normal day in my office gonna go downstairs and he just goes down and then he comes back up with an army and he's like everyone check each of these rooms at the same time find this fucker and be like yeah do it and i think that would be really fucking cool uh i appreciate you a good smart ruthless fucking villain but instead he goes after him say it even if he didn't bring an army which he should have even if he didn't say a thing and started opening doors i would have been like oh that's great because then i have to lean in and discover what he noticed that maybe i didn't notice it's oh what is it's it's baffling to me that you as a one man with no armor and a pistol are going to try and hunt and kill a guy who's got he's hiding from you specifically with a gun and would kill you like what and is waiting for you yeah why like to be honest frontman what are you doing like he could kill you especially when he find out that he won this competition yes i think he would know a thing or two about survival it's weird um and it annoys me and it annoys me on every end there's just barely anything in the detective plot line that satisfies me i'm always frustrated speaking of which uh he gets a call here it comes here it comes we found a body say washed up on the island northern coast it's the it has an idea on it which is detective whatever the fuck detective's name is and it's like there we go sweet and that is enough to convince frontman that he must have attempted to swim out there and got killed fucking amazing he really yeah and the timing and the timing and the timing yeah i guess i really could not have scuba dive and i don't i don't want to diminish how important those two points are but also if we remember the guy pushed the body the guy who he's the detective stole pink man's outfit through his body with his clothes and his id over the boat very soon after they got on the boat and now they're at a private island presumably somewhere far away from south korea maybe in the middle of the pacific and how did the body get there i don't know um but i i'm also ready to add to that we got the two points your point and now a fourth point if you have a medic on staff which you how do you not have a medic on staff you have a medic on staff any medic with the salt will be like this guy died a while ago this was not recent and you said you saw the imposter what a day ago yeah this ain't the him yep yep to be fair you probably recognize that as a normal person deal by the crabs yeah someone said that the currents brought it there the all right really i mean i the island would have to be like within eyesight of the coast for that to work and if it's in my side of the end point is the north it was on the island so either the island is actually very close close to the coast of south korea in which case how are they keeping or it's a private island somewhere civic that far from the jurisdiction of south korean police and detectives and in that case how the fuck did that body get there well maybe we don't know where the island was because it wasn't in the i'm trying to i'm trying to formulate this in my head i was so excited for it maybe we don't know where the island was because it was in the pacific ocean not the specific ocean nice also uh this guy really does look vaguely enough like detective man that he can get away with this imagine he didn't imagine it was a black guy yeah imagine it was a guy who's bald or had a mustache well not not a mustache wouldn't be it but i don't know this i know you could be like well maybe he lost all his hair over the course of however he is that the idea of it i just hate the fact that he looks just like him and that this is enough for them to believe it it's like i'm pretty sure this is the same guy i guess we found the imposter woohoo we're done like lame so yeah everything about this is wrong i don't think there's anything about it that works i think i watched this episode with drinker and the prior one and it was funny because i was like he loved episode six and i was like yeah man you know what else wasn't in episode six he's like well he's like the detective i think he was in it so turns out i feel like could you imagine if there were like three detective scenes in that episode just sprinkled through would be like please leave me alon