Okay, welcome back Yeah, welcome back and we've been we started off our lesson by looking at the the counseling relationship and we were looking at one of the first Components of that helping relationship I'm just just taking time to just put my screen up so that all of you can view The notes. Yeah, so this part of the know this part of it is just extra Part of empathy and these aren't in your notes So don't worry that I would just suggest that you listen because this is a really understanding What empathy is and how is it that we can? show this out to To the counseling of people even be relate with okay, so we're going to be looking at the elements of empathy, you know, so this is just a drawing and it's you know, that I that I picked up from somewhere but I but I thought, you know, it really helps to Communicate this the what exactly what you're looking at in in Empathy so empathy one part like we said is seeing their world Which is to be able to see their world as the way the person sees it This means that you also cognitively or in your thoughts understand what they're saying and can see it from Their point of view. So that's what the and the the basic element of empathy is it is also appreciating them as human beings without any judgment. It is also expressing being non-judgmental now this the non-judgmental part of it is The positive Part of it where it provides, you know, like an actionable checklist. So judgment Sometimes becomes like a trap when we go into judgment. We discount the person's situation so that we We can avoid facing or experiencing the pain that they are going through for us to express that empathy we really need to see the person as You know as as a human being and and see what what is happening to them and what is going on In in there in their life So so we need to see them as a as a human being at the point of time that You know, we are expressing that empathy someone who is valuable in their You know in God's sight and this sometimes this need to judge can be very difficult to overcome But that's something that you know, we need to really work on especially when we are working with people An element of empathy is to be able to understand feelings to understand the other person's feelings So so for that we need to get in touch with our own emotions in order to truly connect With the other person's feelings. You really need to figure out What is it that I'm feeling at this point as I'm talking to that to that other to the other person a common reason why people skip this element of Emotions of you know understanding feelings is because we sometimes don't have our own emotions sorted out So first of all, we may need to do some of our own housekeeping in order to be in a place where you can Acknowledge somebody else's feelings Especially maybe when you're listening to somebody's story and it really resounds to something you've heard or you've experienced you get into a Place where where you're experiencing your own emotions and are unable to and and you're probably in a place that you're unable to Perceive and see what's happening and if you're in a space like that, you know another another Another attribute is something called as congruence, which we will come to later to be able to Communicate your difficulty maybe in understanding that is what also is genuine is a genuine Relationship, okay The third one is to be able to communicate the understanding that that that you've understood the person's feelings And this is that final element where someone feels like they are being understood that they are seen or that they are heard and sometimes this can be a real struggle because we often don't know what to say and You know, and maybe some things that we have learned through My practice is when I sometimes don't know have anything to say I may just say something like you know It really appears that you're in a very difficult place right now Would you like to tell me more about it when I really can't pick up what the person's going through, you know Just helping them see that you know that that I've communicated that you know, it is a hard place This is a difficult place, but I'd really want to hear some more of it Now looking at what are certain wrong patterns now the huge problem is is that Sometimes we are very good at blocking empathy because we are protecting ourselves from this feeling Now imagine someone is in emotional distress by blocking their emotions from our own reality We are avoiding acknowledging and connecting to their pain like like I spoke before in short This may be great because we're avoiding pain, but in the long run we destroy that relationship We destroy that environment So three common traps and pitfalls that is indicated in this diagram below is You know the first one it says, you know pitfalls and traps You you see the first again. This is a drawing that I picked up This is what you see in the first one. It says even worse. It's called the even worse pattern The basic idea here is to compare Your counsellor's problem with someone else's problem, you know, that is even bigger So you may say oh, you're only going through this much, you know yesterday. I met somebody who's going through much worse I don't know how they're managing. I think they can manage this may not be too much of a problem, right? Now on the surface, we may think you're helping them But we're letting them know that their problem is really not substantial and that this And you feel that this may help them see how important their problem really is What you're really doing is that you're saying that their problems or their feelings are invalid and or even you know, maybe even unworthy and this this can often Get to the person to really shut down. Okay, so it's the even worse pattern getting into a place of comparing and saying hey You know, this person seems better or you know, yours your seems much lesser than that Okay, the second trap is looking on the bright side Now in this approach what you you you ask people to focus on the positive outcome of the situation You know, sometimes we say in every cloud has a silver lining or the glass isn't half empty. It's half full So what happens in these statements is that there is no place where you're What so ever when seeking to express empathy when we focus on just the positive Rather than acknowledging the person's feelings we ignore and dismiss them as unimportant so the result is that you're invalidating the person and Once they feel invalidated, they may really it may be they may not really want to look at anything else. Okay, but You know once someone but once if they are fully heard and they're supported in that emotion You have used the right sense of empathy Then it may be appropriate and helpful to help them look at the bright side This in itself is not a wrong technique, but Before you can empathize if you are actually Going to help them say, okay, why don't you look at the bright side without really Reflecting and acknowledging their feelings if you go to this it becomes again It's a wrong pattern of empathy and the last one is the problem-solving Rather than being with the person in the emotion, you're immediately jumping to the problem-solving So they're they're saying, you know, they're crying with all their hearts to you and before Anything else and you are uncomfortable, you know, they're crying you're uncomfortable. Okay, what can I do now? Can I get the person to stop crying and say, okay, let's see what we can do about it. Okay now how to fix this problem? That's that's the issue here. You know, you you're thinking of how best can I fix this problem? So what you're assuming is that the person has calling you to to Solve their problem by telling you about their situation, you know, or why else would they tell you? but this if you if we avoid acknowledging or recognizing the emotion and keep it to the facts of the solution, you know We're again bringing to a place where the person has no space in Understanding what's going on. Okay? so So looking at this I mean being careful that you do not Do not go into these traps but but but but are extremely Careful of acknowledging and not going too fast. Don't drive your car too fast Take it at the pace of how your counsellor wants to progress. Okay now What are some techniques that we use when we when we're looking at empathy?  How do you how do you communicate to the person that?  Okay, and they're crying and saying, you know, I lost my job.  So what are you doing? You have moved them from one Part to another you've distracted that and you really don't want to understand what the Experiences that they are going through so asking relevant questions to the very specific thing that they are Telling you about so it can start by saying, you know, can you tell me more about that or you spoke about that? I'm really concerned to hear about it and and that really shows and builds that sense of empathy that is there Okay. So another very important empathetic technique, which we will be looking at in greater detail when we look at the skill is Reflective listening now reflective listening is a very powerful tool and you simply Reflect to the other person what you think you heard making sure you reflect their feelings. Okay. It's very simple. It it it's it's Communicating what you think you have heard and what you are seeing. Let's see. There's an example here, you know Sally says I really don't want to work anymore. I like being home spending time with my children So the reflection here is so what I'm hearing you say is that you like and prefer being home with your children rather than working So it's it's a basic reflection or that, you know, you desire to be with your children and maybe you know Staying away from your children makes you upset. There isn't it's just expressing back to them What you have really understood So it allows the person to feel as though you are listening Over to what they said and you're clear and that you have understood them Now that becomes I mean, this is these are very simple techniques But then you know to be intentionally to be able to use them is very important now How does empathy what does empathy mean to the counseling? So when you show these techniques when you're in a place of empathy what it Brings to them is they feel that they have been I am Understandable and that makes them feel good, you know, someone understands me and someone Is concerned and values of what I'm saying So the and also what they are, you know as you question as you're trying to really, you know Get into the ground of it You're also showing the counseling that you're willing to struggle to understand them and and because they are important to you Okay, and when they are showing you that emotions, you're not Simply dismissing it and going on to the next topic But then you are concerned that they are struggling and that you want to understand what they're going through So that's the meaning of empathy for a counseling that they they experience that you know I that that esteem and the experience that kind of an importance So the functions of empathic Understanding is that it helps to build a relationship between you and your counseling It helps to explore deeper the more that you are reflecting and you are Empathizing the more that they will begin to see see something in them I have had countless number of times where Counselors say, you know as I'm talking this thing has come to me as I'm talking about this Or as you ask this question, I have made this a relation that this is probably what it is And it actually stimulates so much more of an exploration that they begin to See a lot of things that they have not seen before But because of the empathy that you have shown they're able to express out. Okay, it also checks understanding Empathy understanding what you're doing is hey, this is the way I think you're feeling is that right and they will tell you No, sorry, I'm not feeling that I'm feeling this it actually helps you to realign Yourself in what they are going through it provides support. It improves communication The focus specifically is on the counseling and it helps in the growth of the counseling, you know, it's not It's not a radical growth, but it may be slow and Steady, but the growth continues to be there. Sometimes there are certain barriers in Empathy and I just want to bring about some of this is just for us to understand that How how what we need to be careful about sometimes cultural differences can be a barrier to empathy In the kind of culture that I'm living in and the culture that my counseling is in Maybe there are times that there could be certain Misunderstanding in the way that our cultures are right and sometimes that that can come as an issue So really exploring the culture is a good thing. So whenever I meet with new people I understand a little bit about where they come from what their belief systems are What's if they're from India, what states are they coming from what has been their general familial pattern? What kind of culture have they grown up in what's been their economic status? What's been their spiritual growth? It gives you a good understanding about their culture gender sometimes Gender in itself can be a barrier, right, you know Like for example from a woman to a man and the way that they experience empathy is quite different So that can be a barrier not viewing the other individual as an equal Can can be can be established as an as an empathy either you view someone higher than you or see you view Someone lower than you your ideas and your beliefs become become a barrier into into into empathy And lastly, of course, if you are uncomfortable with emotions if you are uncomfortable with dealing with your own emotions Most probably you would be uncomfortable dealing with somebody else's emotions I think we spoke about this that empathic understanding is not sympathy. So the fact is that you know, you don't sympathize To to remember that empathic understanding or empathy is also an experience It's an experience for you as a counselor.  It is a moment to moment sensitivity about their Present it's sensing their inner world of private personal meanings, you know, what have they bought meaning to it and As if it was your own but yet, you know, you're separate from it but So so that accurate sensitivity to to what Your counseling brings is of primary value in in that relationship So you can also as a counselor experience the quality and depth of their anger or their fear Without actually feeling angry or depressed yourself, you know, the pain that they're talking about you can actually feel that experience and quality without actually Assuming it as your own and that is something that I I believe comes by practice and by experience as you as you continue to speak and Work with people. Okay. So what are certain steps to show empathy now? Now this this looks very compartmentalized as the diagram But you know, just for us to understand is the first very step is to create a safe for the person now This is both literal as well or as also figuratively that you know, the the place should be Free and uncluttered and private and it should be a calming presence for the person who's coming to talk to you Like, you know, you're if someone's coming to talk to you in your living room and you have kids walking all around There's a phone ringing. There are people coming in. There's a maid walking in. It's not a safe environment So both literally and figuratively where and you also have uncluttered your mind from different things So if you're not in a place to listen Be congruent or be genuine to share that with the other person. Okay. Step two is using encouraging behaviors like I said, you know verbal encouragers or nonverbal encouragers For to help them share more information about their circumstance. So it can be things like, okay, I see Really, oh, I'm sorry about that. I mean all of this help in encouraging them to speak more At third is truly listen To the words and observe their nonverbal cues with complete attention. So every ounce of attention is focused on your Counseling and trying to see where they are coming from is crucially very very important So if you look at a formula now, this is something just to help you understand Now how what what formula can I use?  So what can you say a basic formula for displaying empathy is this you feel something That is, you know, you name the emotion that is expressed that may be expressed by the counselling You may you you you feel sad upset Isolated dejected angry, whatever they are talking about because And then you name the thoughts of the experience or the behavior That the person is is talking about. Okay, and Sorry Yeah, and so so to to be able to do this really It's good to have this formula in your mind so that you're not grouping in the darkest to what do I say? What do I say? What do I say? The only thing you're going to focus on is okay Let me listen and let me pick out a specific emotion that they are talking about So you you express that in one way now just in case you're not able to Figure out what they are Thinking you can even say, you know, let me see if I have this right or I'm trying making a guess here Or let me know if this is accurate But this is what I think you're feeling because of such and such thing and and that's perfectly Fine to do because they will definitely clarify with you if if that is that is not in That that is error. Okay, so let's quickly do an You know a practice Let's look at the third one. I can't live another day with my husband. Okay How will you show empathy? Can you either you know quickly write it down on the chat or you know, you could quickly unmute and and Give that to me. I can't live another day with my husband use the formula that we spoke about So, you know say you feel dash because Dash, I know there's very little information given but this is just for our help and practice Yeah, I'm waiting for answers or quick responses students Hello, did I I hope I didn't sing a lullaby. Okay, great. Thank you bet. Okay. So you said You feel hopeless because your husband passed away Okay, I don't think he's passed away, but that's okay. Yeah, you feel hopeless because You're okay, maybe I think you've got the context a little little wrong, but but that's good. That's that's a that's a good thing Okay, you feel hopeless because You know, you're finding it difficult to Um difficult to Sort out your conflicts with your husband. That's one way. Okay. Anybody else You feel frustrated because your husband doesn't connect and this is sorry Doesn't correct and under connect and understand you. Okay. Great. Wonderful. Avni. You said you feel depressed because your husband doesn't understand you Anita, you feel alone because he doesn't spend time with you. Very good. Excellent. That's that's a good job. All right. So that's good. So You know What what I what I really want to encourage you very sorry. Dear, how can I help you rupa use the use the formula use the formula Um, she's saying something so you're responding first empathy is you're responding. Maybe it's just that one line But you're responding to that chaya. You feel lonely because you feel there isn't a connect. Excellent. Very good. Okay I think there are many more you feel tired of your marriage because your husband Fails to commit excellent. It is Someone's written it is an empty feeling you feel not having your wife around Sorry, I'm not able to see that fully for some reason you feel lacking something because he doesn't understand you Okay, I think you guys have got the flow. Right.   Wonderful. Great. Good job. And this really helps when you do this It actually opens up another Door for your counseling to share even more. Yeah. Yeah, that's absolutely right. You know yesterday This is blah blah blah blah blah and they will keep going on and then you can continue the empathy by by using this You know, so keep this formula in your mind and and as you keep practicing it You will definitely find a lot more in the way that that you're you're bringing this out great I can still see more you feel unloved because he's not valuing you You feel you don't want to live with your husband Anymore. Okay. Maybe adding a feeling there would would probably happen Maybe would be good. Like maybe like, you know, you feel frustrated to To live another day with him because of what you're going through You know, so so that's good. So so you guys are getting getting the flow on that. Okay So keep doing that and and work on that. So when you are You know, I think something very important This is a very self-reflecting asking yourself is Whenever you're hearing someone ask this, you know, am I compassionate enough to care about and understand what someone else is saying? So even as you are maybe, you know, dealing with certain issues at your own home with people's significant people Ask yourself this. Am I compassionate enough to care about what the other person's saying? Am I able to put myself in somebody else's shoes so completely that I don't criticize or judge them? And can I let myself enter into the other's feelings and personal meanings to see the way that they do? And if these if these if this is a yes, okay, and a true genuine yes I'm sure that, you know, you will be able to help through this very very important skill of Empathy, okay Moving to the next one is what we call as the as unconditional positive regard Unconditional positive regard now You know people nurture growth by being accepting by By offering what we call as the unconditional positive regard now this I believe is an attitude of grace An attitude that values us Even knowing our feelings the same way that god Regards us, you know He values us despite What we have failed in and this is a profound truth and It is also, you know for a person like When i'm talking about this i'm saying just to know that god treats me with that unconditional grace is Such a relief to know that I can drop all my pretenses Confess my worst feelings And discover that even though that i've done certain things I am the way that I am I'm still accepted, you know, it's it's that freedom to be spontaneous without really fearing the loss of The esteem god has given me right and in counseling. This is essential to that healthy relationship So people, you know, when you regard that positively They are more inclined to accept responsibility for themselves and their behavior When they are actually in a non condemning and non combative environment So the when you regard them, they are more willing to actually look at themselves and say, you know, I I feel a rotten for the way that for what I've done They will actually tell you that because you have bought you have facilitated a non judgmental atmosphere And that promotes that openness and honesty and even confession Because unconditional positive regard is uh non judgmental You as a counselor will be more inclined to listen to the client to build that relationship So it helps the counselor this Unconditional positive regard helps you to empathize it. It helps in the first attitude and this this way the Counseling also learns to accept the feelings and the flaws of others. So as you're doing it for them, they're also able to Do it for themselves also, you know, they're sorry. They're also able to hold on regard Regarding the other person as well. Now we see that Unconditional positive regard is a very Scriptural construct. Okay, where we you know, it We see that in john 13 34 35 is is that, you know to love one another as god has loved us So that we we also So you also are to love and so we are also called to love one another So when we break down this these This this very These three words unconditional means absolutely not holding any condition whatsoever holding no condition of acceptance not because you're this and this is why I accept you I accept you because you are one of god's creations made in his image positive means that Acceptance or that prizing that someone is surprised someone is esteemed someone is valued And of course the regard is that care or respect that you give them as a unique person so What you're doing is you're regarding every aspect of the council is experience as part of being Who they are it means caring for them Not in a possessive way in such a way as You know to satisfy your needs or to to feel good or to be be the a good person But it's caring for the person as a separate person the person who has that has their feelings and has their own Experiences so that's that's What we are called to do now this an unconditional positive regard is Because is is an attitude as we have seen here, you know, it's it's an attitude. It's a feeling It's a mindset. It may not be as much as a skill It's not something that you can act towards others. It's something that comes from from within and What it says is that that That you as a person You value them it's showing that support and acceptance of them no matter what they do it And over here again as we had spoken of the last time it does not mean that you're approving of their behavior It only means that you are valuing them as a as a person So what is this? What is this unconditional positive regard have to hold or or what how do you how do you view others? You're viewing the other person as a person of destiny You're viewing them as they are equipped that they're talented that they are creative that they're designed For a purpose. It's the way that you regard them the way You're not regarding them in the way that they have regarded themselves or the way that others have regarded them You're regarding them as someone who is who is Unique and and and has a as a specific purpose. Okay. Why is this important? This is important because Very often, you know In other relationships in order to live up to the expectations of others We all have defenses, right? We wear a mask, but In the presence of a counselor, they need to be helped to be themselves and express What they want without being judged because of this unconditional positive regard It it helps a counselor feels valued for who he is usually in other Other Relationships they may put up those defenses and as a result they suppress those feelings and they behave As if they are happy So we nurture this growth by being Acceptant and offering this this very Attitude called as the unconditional positive regard now as a person finds so how how is this communicated to the to To a counselor, how how does unconditional positive regard get communicated to a counselor? So as as the person, you know finds you who's listening and accepted of their feelings They become more open and they are honest to what they want to share, you know, if when you regard them Uh, there may be many times is you know in your first session or the first time that you meet with them They will say, um, you know, maybe I will talk about this at a later point of time But as you see the session progressing and you've seen Um, you will see the difference because they will start opening up They will say, you know, I think I will bring up what I said that I wanted to bring up the next time That's because they have felt that you have regarded them So it encourages them to share whatever is going on and they're also likely to accept themselves Um and the responsibility that they have in working through their situation So that's that's what it creates for them, you know, that ability to just open up and share what What is going on with them? Now, like I said, unconditional positive regard is a is not a skill It's not a practice. It's not something you can do But it is a frame of mind. It is a place where you're you're learning not to be judgmental and be accepted Now this is something that sometimes can get very difficult because it's not because it's not a skill And it's a frame of mind. It's not easy sometimes to develop this especially when When as as by nature, we may be quite judgmental or, you know, very critical about things but showing warmth and Developing that relationship is often there and that really gains that respect and acceptance So to create that climate Is is very important and you do that by the way that you respond by the way that you speak by the way that you show that that you that they are important to you. Okay now This unconditional positive regard is very crucial in counseling. Why? Because you could be their last chance. You could be their only person Who has welcomed them accepted them and understood them. Okay, and your acceptance Is all that they need to bring about that change Okay, now this person Carl Rogers. He's the one who established these three Attitudes of a of a counselor of an in a counseling relationship And I've just put down some a quote that he's written says when you criticize me I intuitively dig in to defend myself However, when you accept me like I am I suddenly am willing to change and that's with that premise That we believe that unconditional positive regard really helps to create that place of change for for an for an individual Okay, um, so certain again, you know, just quickly some Some Examples here But but over here I I do see, you know, sometimes when How is it that we don't show maybe I think we will flip it on the other other other way When a person let's say the we'll take the When we'll take the first one, I'm a hopeless mom. I just lost my temper with my toddler How is it that you don't show unconditioned positive regard? Maybe let's look at what we shouldn't be doing rather than what we should be doing. You know, what shouldn't we be saying? To them What shouldn't you be saying to them? You could quickly put it out on the chat What shouldn't you be saying to a mother who says I'm a hopeless mom?  Okay. Yeah, you shouldn't be saying that All right. What else? Yeah, you should try to control yourself. Yes, you shouldn't be saying that Absolutely. What else? You're very harsh.  Wonderful Great.  Okay All right So there are very many things that you know, all of this made definitely does not express that Unconditional positive regard the third one that we're going to look at is what is called as genuineness Or it's another term for genuineness is what we call congruence. Okay, genuineness or congruence Now this important quality is Is another name for authenticity of being True to oneself. Okay. So again Just like unconditional positive regard, you know, this is this is not a very easy concept to To to really explain but you know, we're going to try our best to do that Okay. Now genuineness is So, okay. So the easiest way to think of genuineness is to regard it as open communication. Okay To make it easier for the counsellor to understand you The counsellor You you need to be direct and open in the way that you communicate First of all is not trying to put yourself on some pedestal and let the Counselor think that you're a teacher and they are the pupil or you are divine and they are mortal You know that you have all the answers and solutions to their problems It's first and foremost helping them see that it's not that okay, and often you would see People saying okay.  So to be able to It basically what you basically need to be yourself As you really feel at that time. So there are times that I say, you know, I'm I'm absolutely Unsure or quizzical about what you can do about the situation But then I want to work this with you to be able to help you find What an answer is okay because I don't have that solution right and and of course that like like we said, you know Are connect with the Holy Spirit is to be able to also help them to come to a place where they are as believers Open to what the Holy Spirit needs to say So when you are open yourself you're setting an example and you're encouraging them to not To stop denying or to not to not pretend or not to conceal your The thoughts and the feelings. So you are being authentic and you're not putting on that. I know best facade Okay, you are there and you are being real And you are role free role free is you know, you're not Called to to bring about the answers and you it is not you do not have to hide Your true self when when you're looking at this generous. So so generous is a state of being Or it's a place where you are where your outward Responses match what your inner feelings may be towards your client or your counseling So the counselor to be yourself serve as a model for counseling You win that respect and confidence of counseling you need to have this genuineness And research has definitely shown that the higher the degree of congruence The more probability there is going to be change in the person who's sitting with you Okay, the counselor you're not thinking and feeling one way and saying something different. All right So being genuine is really being Absolutely, uh authentic about what you are going on Now even as we're looking at, uh, genuineness, there are three levels of Uh of of experiencing of three levels of a person. There is a That there is a level of experience we have There is a level of awareness and there is a level of communication So the level of experience is what you may be going through the level of awareness of the experience is You know, like like for example, maybe I'll give you an example. So while while you're discussing something Let's say you you raise your voice and then you say that you're not angry So it shows that you're really unaware of of the feelings of anger that is within you Okay, and and because of that you're communicating that you're not feeling angry But in congruence what is happening is you're You are communicating what you're experiencing. All right. So when you are feeling angry and you've communicated it You've also matched that it so genuineness is it has to match everything like for example, you know, if you can look at my face I'm saying oh, I'm so very happy that you've got got a such a great job Is there even joy and excitement in my face? Absolutely not. I have such a dull effect as I said that it shows it really appears that there hasn't been any genuineness in the way that I commented it Okay Or to say something like oh, I feel so sad that you have just experienced a loss in your family You know, that doesn't make any sense. There's there's a lot of a happy effect happy face That's there, but then you know, what I'm expressing is is something totally different So there has to be an accurate matching of the way I'm experiencing it the way that I'm aware of it And the way that I communicate that to my To my counselling. Okay, I think I will go. Yeah. So genuineness is basically what we are saying is being real True and authentic It's again, not a role or not a skill. It's a lifestyle It is something that we we show matching in our body language and in our words It's not being defensive. It's not being held up in the role of a pastor or a counsellor or a or a You know, any of that or or anything, but just just being in the role of of someone who genuinely wants to understand. Okay Genuineness is also counselling from life and as well as scripture Being aware of your feelings and also learning how to be spontaneous is what genuineness is. Okay So as an example, let's quickly look at an example Um So we look at the first one as I'm counselling my mind suddenly strays off What would you What would you say?  You've lost Track you've lost trail. What would you say? Yeah, what would your response be? I'll come back. I'll just go drink some water and come What would you say? You're not interested Thank you Uh, no, what would you say? This is as you are Uh, counselling you've lost your thoughts. Okay. Sorry. Can you repeat or I got lost in my thoughts? Okay, wonderful. I'm sorry. I lost my attention. Could you please repeat? Very good. Okay, great So you could say something like uh, I'm I'm I'm really I apologize You know, I I didn't pick up some things that you're you're saying Would you would you please repeat that? Yeah, good. Okay, so being genuine and or even so I I think for Let's say You're maybe the person's talking and talking and talking and talking and you're you know, you're getting a headache And you need to end your session. What would you say? What what would you what would you tell them? Right. So being genuine about what you are experiencing Really helps and you don't have to put up a facade or put up put up a show on that Okay, so today we looked at these components of the helping relationship one being empathy One being unconditional positive regard and the last being genuineness. Okay Yeah Yeah, so is is there any any question that that y'all would have with regard to this? We would probably take up, you know, five minutes request you all to stay on for five minutes and We can we can just answer. Yes. Uh, Sri Kumar. You can put up your question. Thank you pastor Pastor, thank you Pastor, I want to know one thing As you said, um, you know, uh, genuineness and uh, except the feeling um in case in case the husband and wife both are coming and uh, they are having um Like they are in a place where they want to separate And they have their own, uh way of understanding the life. So in that case how we can How can a person be genuine for both of them? because both of them are sharing their problem and How can we able to accept their feelings? Like, you know, as you said, uh, you know, we are actually, um, you know Empathetic towards to the husband also and empathetic towards to the feeling of the husband feeling of the wife, but, um But they are actually both of them are actually opposite to each other. They are not, you know They don't want to understand each other So in that case, um, how can I be genuine to both of them where they both are in a different, um, you know, uh Both are in different direction And um, and how can I be able to counsel or how can I can become genuine to them because for them If I if I take the side of the wife, the husband will feel that, um, you know, I'm understanding more the wife And if I am understanding the husband the husband will feel that So, uh, as a as a counselor, um, how can I able to I can able to stand and To make the you know to solve this problem and be like as you as we discuss How can I be genuine to them or how can I able to follow these all the things what you do today? Thank you Okay. Yeah, so that's that's a good. That's a good question It's like, you know, you'll have to get out from one shoes Get into the other shoes get out from one shoes get into the other shoes and both of these shoes Are totally contrary to one another, right? I can I can totally understand your your dilemma in this Yeah, so So, um, so I think there are two things As part of your question that I want to look at One is when we are looking at helping a couple We are not looking at number one not siding either of them We are not in a place of a judge sitting and saying, okay, maybe you're right or they're right That's not where we are Okay, where we are it is being a neutral party And helping them to come to a place of communicating What has their struggles been? So you as a facilitator are not going to say You know wife, this is a wrong part. This is what you're doing wrong.  What do you feel about it? And you're saying You know husband, this is what you are going through you feel this and this in it Wife, what is it that you want to take out of what he's saying? So you're being a neutral person in that combination In helping them to come to a place of understanding where each person is at You're not at a place where you are siding for one another or agreeing that one person is right or one person is wrong Okay, so that's the that's the content part of it. Now, how do you how do you become genuine? So one the first and foremost thing is in you as a counsellor's mind Um When we hear a story, we're often quick to judge and understand. Okay, they went through this because Maybe let's say in this case. There was a extra marital affair. Okay, and so you're saying, okay This is like this because the husband is at fault. He went to this thing and went for an affair and that's why he So we've already made that kind of a judgment. Now, that's what That's what we're going back to think of unconditional positive regard No matter what is being presented to you You are still accepting of the person of who he is of the husband You're not approving of the behavior. You are accepting of the person Okay, so it is like we said, it's not a skill It's an attitude change So the more that you have helped yourself accept the individual for who he is no matter what he's done this need to feel that or or this this The feeling that comes in into you to say, okay, you are wrong You know, and that's what genuinely you may be feeling, you know That something is going on over here that you know, he's not right And I should be in a place of correction and that's why you go on to the to the second At attribute of unconditional positive regard. So that's why we need to work on first To be able to regard people no matter what they have come come to you with Because until and unless we are able to accept them we may not be We may not feel very genuine Right. So there may be some biases or prejudices or understanding that we have about a certain situation If we have not worked that out in our own selves We may we may not be efficient counselors because we are in a place of actually Judging them and we may be genuinely trying to help but that doesn't help that individual So I would say more than genuineness It it will go up to that point of unconditional positive regard of of Actually analyzing for yourself. How you feel towards that person who's had that wrong behavior And what is it that you can do to work on the way that you're seeing them? Okay, because when you see them as equal Participants in your counseling, you will not be in a position to feel that, you know, I'm aside with one another or You know, I must I must help the I must You know defend the other person. That's not our role in counseling our role in counseling is to help Both the individuals come together to a place of understanding what the situation is and what in their dealings is causing the problem That's where I am called for not for them to work out and figure out who is right and who is wrong As we go through these, you know, some of these Topics, I think it will become a lot more clearer to you This is specifically of how we how we need to have a lifestyle of these attitudes in the way that we see people Because unless and until this is there, you know, it will be it will come into a barrier in the way that we counsel We will begin to put side we will begin to attach sides or we will become we will become judgmental Or we will become in a place of saying, you know, husband, you're not right in this You know, go repent and come back and we remember we're not at the prophet's role We are the role of a counselor where we are drawing out from the person so that they can come to a place of understanding themselves And thus make the change Okay Thank you best Shay, can I have your question too? I'm so sorry pastor. It's not really a question. Just an observation that everything we seem to be learning I think even beyond just counseling. I think it applies to everyday life How we listen and handle issues with people family or friends. So I just wanted to make that comment. Thank you Absolutely. I I I think this is something that is very Needed for us, especially as ministers and christian believers to to really uphold these attributes Thank you. Shay. I I I do agree with you. I think Prabhakar's asked asked a question sometimes when we know the truth That the person is lying or not genuine how to stop them from fooling or playing a trick on us without bringing them down on Making them open. Okay. Now. This is a skill that we will be learning. It's called the skill of confrontation Okay, that and that's something that you use in counseling when you begin to see that somebody That your counseling is not being genuine or they are probably manipulating or they are lying or You know, they are they're they're doing then they're not being honest and truthful That's a skill called as confrontation and we will learn about that. That has probably It's it's more to do with the Counsel is Standing today's lesson was all about how as a counselor we need to be be Genuine we need to empathize and as well as we have unconditional positive regard to those Who come to us? Okay. All right. Okay. That was a full class I I totally enjoyed actually just just that I I hope this takes back a lot of You know attitudinal lifestyle changes for us as we deal with other people may I request somebody to please close with a word of prayer and We can we can close in anybody anyone can quickly just close in prayer Tarun may I request you to pray if you're there Tarun? Yeah, I'll pray there's some background noise. I'm sorry. No problem. No problem. Yeah Father, thank you lord. Thank you for what we have learned. We pray that as we spend the Days to come we get to become more empathetic and we get to See the people the way that you see them and Work with them as we interact lord. Thank you for this class and all the learning. We give you glory and we ask this in jesus name Amen. Amen. Thank you Tarun. You you have a young and young entrant into the class also your little baby Wonderful. Yeah. Thank you so much team on listening. Yeah Okay. Thank you. God bless. We will meet again next week. Thank you so much Bye-bye