Good morning everyone, good morning Shabax. Hi, so this is the big TCL booth here, CES 2020. Welcome in Vegas. You have some really exciting stuff here, huh? Yes, we have some 8K announcement, we have some mini LED announcement and a lot of QLEDs everywhere based on quantum dots. This is really cool and a lot of people are checking out your cinema wall. That one is micro LED, so this is different from mini LED here. Here, every LED is a pixel, so you have 24 million pixels, you have 24 million LEDs and this is active, meaning it's not a backlight, there is no filter. What you see here is micro LED. It's an innovation, it's a prototype. When the technology will be mature, maybe in one, two, three years from now, then we will bring it on the market. Is this the coolest looking micro LED, large display in the whole world? This is one of the coolest. You see a lot of micro LED solutions. Samsung is showing something. Exactly, same technology. Same technology. Every brand, every major brand is working on this micro LED technology at the moment. So it's not quite 8K, but it's definitely going to be 8K. It's going to be 8K, or by the time we launch it, it's going to be maybe 12K resolution. What I can tell you is we already sold a few pieces, but we need some maintenance. It's very, very, very big. It's very big, very bright. You can do any size you want. Yes, and it's also really good for the resolution. So you can talk here, we show 132 inch, but we also show in the past 150 inch. And basically it's just tiles. You can put them together as many as you want. And you have small tiles of micro LEDs. This prototype is made of small tiles. Yes, but the target in the end is to make this in a factory, so in one piece. But here for the prototype, you see small types of micro LEDs. It's easier to maintain and to control.  Because it's heating a lot. And on this prototype, which is heating a lot, you know, 24 hours a day, sometimes correct, there might be some tiles to replace. It looks really impressive. And the border around here is much closer than the Samsung demo. That means you're not scared to let people see it. No, we are not scared to say it's prototype, it's technology. But in the meantime, we have a very nice one, which is Miniality. And this is the big, big launch for this show. Correct. You're claiming to be the first. And the only one? The only one to do what? Miniality. To do Miniality. 8K or Miniality, Miniality? Both. 4K, 8K, and with a quantum dot filter with QLED on top. So what you see here behind me is a 75 inch Miniality first generation. So what do you mean first generation? Generation one, which we are actually selling this model. So this model is on the market, 75 inch in the US, 65 inch in Europe. What you have here at the back, 15,000, so 15K, 15,000 really small LEDs. And these LEDs are split into zones. We have 800 zones, meaning we can dim and control individually each zone. Great contrast, great brightness. And when the blue LEDs are going to hit the quantum dot, it's going to explode into colors.  First generation 1. Now generation 2, we improve the concept of course. It's going to launch by the end of this year. Yeah. And then we encapsulate more than 20,000 LEDs in a small sheet of glass. So here you have a sheet of glass. And in this sheet of glass, we encapsulate so many small LEDs, like 20 or 25,000 LEDs. 25,000. Depending on the screen size. So you're going from 800 to 25,000? No, that's the amount of LEDs. Then the LEDs are split into zones. And here we are talking about thousands of zones. Yes, so 1,000, 2,000 zones can control individually also. So same as generation 1, much more precise, much more dense. The LEDs are smaller, more powerful, and the pitch, so meaning the gap between each LED, much smaller. So we can refine and control the backlight even better. This is 8K. This is 8K, more than 2,000 nits brightness. And here we're not talking about peak brightness, but average brightness on the screens can be 2,000. What you don't see actually is you have a very good transition between the black and the white. You have no halo effect or almost no halo effect. This one is a prototype, but we're going to launch it by the end of the year. End of the year, not before? By the end of 2K20. And then we have a generation 3. We can talk later. At the press conference you were... That's called Mini-LED on glass, and at the press conference we call it Viderian. Viderian Mini-LED on glass. At the press conference you were kind of teasing Heisen's a little bit, or somebody else doing dual layer displays. You don't do dual layer, you only do Mini-LED. Correct. You claim it's better, it's brighter. It's brighter, it's safer from an industrial point of view, and it's easier to control together with quantum dots. Of course, I cannot comment on Heisen's solution. They may have a good solution, but we think Mini-LED is a much better solution. But they claim to have 2 million zones. Yes, because of this double... As a full HD zones. I'm not sure. They even might do 4K zones eventually. Yeah, I'm not sure exactly how it works. I need to check out on Heisen's. But no halo, even it's just just thousands of zones. Just thousands of zones, meaning 2,000 of zones is enough to decrease the halo effect. But on the next generation, we will eliminate the halo effect. What do you mean next generation? Generation 3 of Mini-LED. Are you showing something? Yes, for 2021 or 2022. So meaning in 2 years from now. You know, maybe I have to explain.  Meaning the LEDs are placed at the back. It's direct backlight. The challenge here is to make thin products. Generation 1, 2 cm instead of 4 cm. Generation 2 will go slimmer. And here we have a generation 3, which is less than 5 mm. So if you go on the side... Here, this is really direct backlight. So the LEDs are placed at the back in a very thin sheet of glass. And the LEDs are closer to the screen to reduce the thickness, less than 5 mm. What we also put, we put the speakers in a nice somber to make the TV even slimmer. So slim is a big trend in the last many years. But I think the most important is brightness, quality. Sorry, I didn't hear that. Most important I would think is brightness, quality. How is that? Is that also an improvement in generation 3? In picture quality, you have four key things for the human eyes and the brain. You have the contrast, which is the difference between the bright and the dark area. Contrast is probably super important, the most important. Number 2, you have the color. The human eyes can really see the colors. Number 3, you have the sharpness. So the level of detail, the resolution. And number 4, you have the motion on moving pictures. How it behaves without any judder. So these four factors are really very well managed with direct LED solution or mini-LED solution. Contrast is really much improved. HDR effect is there. You have all the details on the bright and the dark zones. And the last thing to improve is really on the thickness. Really here you see, you will have much more zones. We are talking about 300K zones. Maybe 300,000 zones. And the challenge now on this kind of very thin TV. It's heating. It's heating a lot. It's becoming warm. You don't touch it, it gets hot. Well, you can touch it, no problem. I got static electricity, I can't touch it. Okay, but at the back we put a lot of vents to avoid to make the heat escaping at the back. The vents and the thickness. I'm not sure if you can see that at the camera. You see a lot of holes at the back here. This is really for the heat to come out. And the nice thing, even in a very slim TV now, we can put the electronics. So all the chassis, what we call the printed circuit board, is still at the back. So when you plug your HDMI and so on, very convenient. So how does it work this mini... It's kind of nearly micro LED because you have 300K of them. It's a lot. But mini LED on glass, how does the technology of doing that? It's not yet, it's not micro LED. Again, if you look at an 8K TV, 8K TV, you have 33 millions pixels. That's only 300,000. And here you don't have one LED per pixel. It's still a backlight. It's 100 times less. But it's getting closer. You could say that. But the result is not that far away. The result is really not that far away from micro LED. The most important is for the consumer and for the user. Do they see a difference or they don't? In terms of contrast, brightness, color, perception. On QLED powered by mini LED, they see a big difference. They even see sometimes a real, how to say, benefit versus OLED. So yes, the QLED powered by mini LED really see a big difference. There are so many zones and so many brightness and colors. So here what we are also showing... Let's check the difference between OLED and mini LED. So you are much brighter basically, no? On the left? Is that what you would say? Yes, on the left you see a much brighter and much more detailed picture. When you look at the bright zones, the white zones or the black zones, you probably see more details here. You see more details in the hairs on the skin because the HDR is better managed. You're not cheating with their demo? No, no cheat. Of course OLED is really good. It's great. OLED is great. You have more brightness. What are the needs? Here we talk about... What are the 200? Here this is mini LED, first generation. Generation 1 on the market, 1,500 nits. Second generation, 2,000 nits. Third generation, no limit. No limit? No, we will go high. And this one is capped at 5 to 700 nits? Yes, kind of. You know 55 OLED display is... They don't have a system to go brighter. No, the technology. It's not possible. You break the OLEDs. Yes, but the black levels are really good. So now you see or you don't see. But HDR effect might be difficult with the camera to perceive. On the left... I don't film HDR. More details on the skin and more 3D HDR effect. You see here, all the details are kind of lost sometimes. All right. So, out of box settings, dynamic picture on both. You see that mini LED is really quite good. Last year, the American guy, we were talking about the AI. I wonder if it was an error. He was talking about that you have some kind of AI that's much more efficient in H265 to compress video to like a tiny bitrate. Is that real? Yes, it's a real... Okay, this one is a technology demo. So the one you are referring to is not this demonstration. It's another demonstration. Yeah. It will land in 2K20 this year on the range, on high-end TVs. That one is also really interesting. You have a library, a library of pictures in the TV and on the cloud to compare with. And what you can see here, the TV recognizes this is 3. This is live. There is bronze. So it optimizes for that. Yeah, the color saturation is increasing on the brown and the red and increasing on the blue because it detects some water. But the color saturation is okay on the green. So it keeps adjusting the settings. It keeps adjusting the settings by picture recognition, by scene recognition, it will implement the right settings. Same for audio quality. The codec thing is real. And 2020, what does that mean? Does that mean you're going to enable real systems for high-quality 4K streaming in lower battery rate or what does it mean? The other thing I'm talking about. The codec thing. The first thing? The codec. Yes, the codec compression is going to happen at the end of this year. So what is it going to enable? Does that mean you're going to enable better quality 4K streaming? The benefit for consumers is when you stream some, let's say, low-end YouTube content with a lot of macro blocks, for example, you will have less of these visible macro blocks on the screen. So you will see less of macro block issues, less pixelization on, let's say, normal standard or low-end content. Is it a new codec developed by GCL? No, it's an improvement. It's an improvement of an existing codec. It's better than AV1. It's better than H266. You could say it's the same. It's comparable. But let's say the effect on screen is better. Nice. So maybe you contribute all this to YouTube and Netflix so they can better compress their content. Yes, because not everyone has 8K YouTube or 8K Netflix yet on the market. What's happening here? Here we have a 100-inch TV with a great sound. 4000 nits. Yeah, that TV we sell in China. And the TCL brand, of course. Very, very bright. Very bright. Dolby Vision Atmos. But the most impressive part is also the sound, what you cannot hear here. But you see on the left and the right, behind you on the side, you have these tall boys and you have a subwoofer here in the middle. Giving a great, great sound. So at TCL, you don't only want to do soundbar stuff, which a lot of people are doing. It's nice to have real surround sound, real speakers to say. Not just little things that you put under the TV. You want to have real speakers for the experience. We do both. We do both. We often, below the TV, we often include a soundbar. We integrate a soundbar. Sometimes we integrate it in a flush way or in a more prominent way, like what you see here. And we also sell individuals on bars, of course. Is that your screen? What's this? No, no. That's not from TCL. It's another friendly company over there. I think it's from the CES. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And the next big news, we discussed 8K. We discussed any LED. The other big news is quantum dot TVs, QLED TVs. But all of those that you've shown until now are the old quantum models. Yes, but I was showing 8K. I was showing mini LED. So, let's say, very good, innovative, the best picture quality. Let's say, here what we have is more affordable quantum dot TVs. So these quantum dot TVs, they come with 100 hertz. So they are really good quantum dots. 100 or 120 for the US, right? Yeah, 120 in the US, 100 hertz in Europe. And this is 75 inch. It's 75, 65 and 55. We have three screen sizes and it's kind of QLED plus, let's say. Because 100 hertz, 100% color volume, very bright screens. On the other side, we have even more affordable QLED TVs. No 100 hertz, 50 hertz, very slim. What you can see here is probably one of the most competitive QLED TV range on the market when we launch it in April and May. 82 inch, 65. 82 for the US and in Europe, we will have a 75, a 65, a 55 and a 50. Most probably, still under discussion, three sizes for Europe. 50, 55, 65. We are also targeting, you know, more affordable prices on these kind of QLED models. So it's a really good QLED, really good QLED quality, very good with a lot of innovation inside, hands-free, we can talk more, Android and so on. But this kind of TV will target the price of a normal TV. So almost QLED for us. We will see how the market is moving, but we are preparing, let's say, our mission is to democratize the technology to make quantum dots affordable so that everyone can afford a quantum dot. So 65 inch, quantum dot, 499. No, how much? What did you say again? 499, 65 inch, quantum dot. Way cheaper. Cheaper? No, one 499 you said or 499? 499. No, 55, 55, 4599. Depending on the competition again. Yeah, 65 is a little bit more. It depends when the market will be. And 65 might be or will be below 1,000. We think, yes. 799. We don't know yet, to be honest. We really don't know yet. Look, we are in January. We're going to introduce this range in April-May. Many things can change before the Eurocup. You know that the market price are really aggressive. We will be there at the right level of price. This is our mission in TCL. We will never make super high quantum dot. The brightness is good on those cheap ones. But again, those cheap ones are really good quality. Is it 1,000 nits or no? It's 800 nits. 800 nits. So very good brightness. 100% color volume because it's quantum dot. Yeah. Why can't we get the big ones in Europe? Why do you just sell them to the Americans? The market. Because we also love big. Here it doesn't look big. But in Europe, in your flat, in my flat. It's too big. In your castle, in your big home, maybe good enough. But not so many people... All the castles are in Europe. There's not castles in the US. That's only a few customers. That's not enough. We need more and bigger homes in Europe. In USA, everyone can accept this. To be honest, even in USA, this 82 inch might be still big for next year. 2021. Can you estimate around how much with the 82 inch? Quantum dot B for the US. How much is the price? Is it 1,499? I cannot comment at all. I have no clue here in the US. It's Americans who deal with that. We have to ask our Americans. So you don't have space in the containers? Shipping containers? When you go to Europe, there's no space for the big one. No, that's not a big deal. But I advise, we talk to Bruce later for the USA range. You can easily talk to Bruce. All right, we can catch up with him later. How about here, these? How about these? How about these? This one, they come with Android 9, compatible Android 10.11. They also come very interesting here. What you can see, they come with a soundbar. In the soundbar, we include a microphone. We call it hands-free voice control. So now you can say, hey Google, to wake up your TV and change channel, open Netflix. You don't need your remote control or your smartphone anymore. You can speak Alexa with it also. If you prefer to speak Alexa, you can do it also. Both Alexa compatible and Google Assistant compatible. You can even speak both at the same time. No, you have to choose. What time is it? Alexa record the TV show. You can do that because they have different skills. Alexa skills and Google Assistant skills are quite different. And of course, you can use both. The only difference is when you use a Google Assistant, then you talk directly to the TV. You say, hey Google, or you can use your remote control. If you use the Alexa, the work with Alexa, you still have to plug an Echo Dot to it. So you plug it, and then you can say, hey, no, hey Google, you say Alexa, change channel. Alexa, open Netflix. So I'm not to say anything bad about Roku. Roku is great and stuff. But sometimes you do Roku in the US. But in Europe, we get Android. Yes, in Europe. Which is great. Android is really big, really useful. This is probably the best OS so far that we can have here in Europe. How to say? Android system, Android TV, is very much evolutive. You have updates and you have upgrades. But this is the biggest amount of applications you can dream. You have the Amazon Prime, you have the Netflix. You have all the latest applications on Android TV. Google has done a good job in the last year or a couple of years to improve the Android TV experience. I think you are raising a valid point. At the really beginning, if we go four or five years back, it was the first time we launched Android TV. Let's say, all the brands launched Android TV 5, it was not ready. Android 6, quite slow. But from Android 7 and 8, you see a lot of improvements. The operating system has improved so much between Android 5, 6 and then 7, 8. It's really optimized for TV. At the beginning, what the makers, TV makers were doing, they were just porting Android mobile phone into a TV which didn't work that well. But that was Android 5 and 6. Later, we developed specific Android TV versions, 7, 8 and 9. And this is really working fast and really good at the moment. And you see the sales of Android TV raising up. Consumers are happy. Yeah, really happy. We have really good feedback on that.  You can enjoy games. You have 4K HDR Netflix, Dolby Vision on Netflix, HDR10+, on Amazon Prime. So many applications and games compared to other systems. Because we got here TCL is doing lots of smart home things. Correct. You can connect the lights, you can connect the humidity fire, the air purifier. Yeah, so what we are showing here is a connected home with some fun stuff. Detection. We can train Jim, if you like. It's very cool. It's very cool. It's just a nap on a TV. It's just a nap, this, right? It's a nap and sometimes it's a chipset, which we include in all these TCL devices. You have a small chipset so that they can intercommunicate as an ecosystem. And here is even the whole TCL kitchen with smart, what do you call it, the hub? The thing there. Smart fridge. Smart fridge over there. Smart fridge. Smart cooking, smart doors. Yes, smart curtains, smart lamps. TCL is a market leader in China for these smart doors selling any in Europe. It's called a smart lock. Only in China at the moment. We are considering, we are discussing with customers to introduce this in Europe. But we don't have any agreement yet. This could be a smart mirror in front of the bathroom and the air conditioning system. Over there you have also a part of the smart home where you can control, you know, the lamps or the popcorn coffee machine via the Google Home system. Nice. I did another video in Shenzhen. People can check it out. Ah, you already made this. With all the AI. And if you don't mind we can go around over there. You have a strange, very cute dog. What is this about? This is about, you know, when you look at younger generations, when they snap or when they do some Facebook Messenger and so on. They very often use the portrait or the landscape mode. Yeah, both. This TV will react to your content on your mobile phone automatically. So, if you shake your mobile phone for example. How do you make it turn? I will ask the lady if she's here. Do you have the mobile for the demo? Alright. You can have a short demo here I think. Let's go to the other screen. Let's go there, yes. So then the phone is paired with your TV. The phone is paired with the TV. And then some kind of shake happens. So here you shake on the phone and then the TV turns. The mother turning the TV. And you see a very nice sunbar on the back. You have a very good sound also. Nice. And then you have the Android AI right there. And you can shake it back to puppy upright mode. Yes. And there is also a possibility that when you change from portrait to landscape. The TV will also change the format automatically. Nice. Then we keep going around. Yep. There's the whole big push by TCL to launch smartphones. So, our phones are always coming with smart speakers. This is really fun. TCL earphones. Fun TCL earphones. Full of colors. We call them intra. And we spent a lot of time on this part here. Because this part should be really gentle to the inside of your ear. The weight. So, the weight this part should be on the outside of your ear. Because the human ear, my human ear, your human ear is not prepared to support any weight on the inside. Nice. So, we spend a lot of time to optimize the shape here. So that when you put it in your ear, really, the weight is supported by the inside and not by the inside. So, with TCL people are not going to get strange ears out of using these kind of things. It's going to happen with Apple and all the other ones. I can't say I'm happy. But that one is really comfortable. Well engineered. These kind of headphones are really great. You have two range of product. This one will be like introduced in March, April in Europe. Around 79 euros. So, very good. And you gave one to every media at your press conference. No, we're not buying media as my friend. You gave one. But for testing, yes. For testing, yes. I have one. I'm going to review it very soon. So, 79 euros. I think you got them at the press conference. And we got also the sports mode over there. The sports one, sorry. This one is going to be like more 99 euros in Europe. It comes with the charger of course. You have very good autonomy. It's splash proof, sweat proof. And the quality hopefully is great. The sound quality you're going to tell us very soon. I'm starting to testing already. But you will hear it. Nice, battery life is good, long and everything. And then, talking about sound, sound quality. We have the best sound bar of the show. Already? Yes, here. This is considered already at IFA. We got five awards. Best sound bar of IFA. Again, here in Vegas. This is the best sound bar of the show. Maybe you can decrease a little bit. Can you decrease a little bit? No. What is really nice in this sound bar here is that we have deflectors. So, most of the sound bars are doing virtualization, you know. It's an algorithm to do atmos, left, right, virtualization. Here, this sound bar is not virtual. This is a mechanical principle with deflectors. The sound flow, you can feel the sound flow going on the left, going on the right to the wall and reflecting. To do better surround kind of effects without surround. Yes, because when you hear, when you send the flow, when I talk to you like this, you understand me. If I talk to you like this or if I talk to you like this, then you don't understand me anymore. It's a basic principle, but that's the only sound bar in the world during this. The deflectors, the flow is standing there. Of course, in the middle, you still have middle speakers for the clarity, for the voice and for the dialogue. This is going to be affordable. This is called radens. This is TCL radens, affordable, less than €400, probably €399, launching in Q1, so March, April. Nice. Let's check some of these phones, even though it's not your segment, but let's go over there, because TCL is going big time on the phones. Yeah, we have announced... So, six months ago in Europe, at IFA, less than six months ago in September, we announced the Plex in Germany, Spain, and now we are launching in USA, here in USA. This is TCL Plex, so really good picture quality and camera. Is it called Plex or is it a different name now? That's a good question. We are thinking maybe to use a different name. Yes. So you have one with a little dot in the corner. Yeah. And high quality build, nice TCL quality display, right? Yes, it's TCL display and we use what we call the chipset called Next Vision. This is all the experience we have in TV, in terms of HDR, we bring it to the mobile. So that mobile has HDR quality on the display. But the price is half of an iPhone, maybe less. It's like a good price, no? I think it depends which iPhone you take, but of course it's TCL and it's affordable technology. And any chance to try the... You will see more in Barcelona? You're talking about a foldable phone. Any chance you might have one you're showing to people? If you come in Barcelona at the Mobile World Congress, you will reveal and we will announce much more details on this foldable phone. So it's going to be a cool foldable phone. Hopefully it's not going to cost $2,500 like Huawei or Samsung. Samsung. Maybe more affordable, hopefully. You know us, you know us. But the quality is hopefully good. The quality is going to be under control. It comes also from our display factories. So the power of TCL is that we are not only doing the hardware and the software, but the main power of TCL is that we are using our own displays. So we control what we buy, we control what we do, because we control the display. We are vertically integrated from display until the product. Not many companies are like this in the world. Only three in the world. Only three electronic companies in the world are vertically integrated. Two are Korean. Samsung and LG. And one Chinese. TCL. And all the other brands in the whole world have to buy. They buy from a different supplier. Yes. From five, six different... It could be BOE, for example. It doesn't make their own brand. It could be TCL, CSOT factories. So you ship to other companies too? Yes. We ship displays to any company, any competitor. You know, in this industry we share displays sometimes. But in TCL, we mostly use our own displays because we really want to control the quality, the technology, innovation, and ultimately have an affordable price. Thanks a lot for making these amazing displays because it's great to... There's seven billion people in the world and everybody enjoys displays. And it's nice that somebody is thinking about doing them affordable. Not just... And good quality? I'm not going to complain too much about some of the Korean displays, but sometimes it's very expensive. I mean, they also have different scoos for all these different markets. Yes. But affordable is great. So everybody can afford a nice AK QLED too. Not only affordable. Really good quality also. Good quality. Yes, at an affordable price. So you're going to be number one eventually? You're... Sometimes you are number one. We have some countries where we are really number one or two. Example, USA. Also in France, we are number three on TV on the market because we have TCL and Thomson brand, for example. So we are number three TV sellers. So we have some countries where when we invest, really, you see the sales really growing fast. So China is one of these. USA is a key country. In Europe, you have France, Germany, UK, where TCL is growing constantly. Yes, and quite fast. Faster than the market, at least.


res no development that make it difficult for the public to exercise their right of access Can you thank you Next is older person boran Thank you, mayor Attorney Adams are we adding this on to some other item in the uh In the agreement or is this going to be a new item that you're adding this this would be a new item It would likely fall under Five and so the result of it would be to either Add well, I wouldn't put it as as letter t But I would put it somewhere in number five and then everything else would would from after I move it down What page is that on? Number five begins on page Eight, but it continues all the way through almost the end of the document we have Uh, I don't know what number The letter s is in the alphabet somewhere around 20, but we have about 20 items On there and it would add another one. All right. Thank you Alderperson trester I just wanted to clarify one thing I had asked the question When hiking along the lakeshore by whistling straights I was told unless my feet were wet. I was on private property So I think it's very important that we do stipulate Because according to the state if my feet are wet I could walk by The beach whistling straights, but if I'm on the sand it's their property It's a little more complicated than that, but uh generally the the constitution does protect Access up to the high watermark, which is why people use that wet foot analysis Well, this is a lake. It's not an ocean where the tide comes in and out So I would like to be able to be assured that if people wanted to walk along the sand That they would have permission to do so and that would be the purpose of This motion it would be to direct that the rights that people do have in the state of wisconsin to access would be protected and Obviously choler it would be illegal for choler to totally block that access But it is not necessarily illegal to do things on their own property that really make that difficult And so I would see this as You know basically a direction that we include in the pre annexation agreement an agreement with choler that they're not going To do anything that makes it more difficult For the public to to Have the access that they have the right to under the state constitution Thank you all the person sorenson. My motion is not to remain at this moment. I withdraw Okay, and uh ched pelichick Thank you for the discussion. I can support that. I think um the challenge Is is the fact that there's some places have riparian rights Where riparian rights go all the way out to the water's edge so to rose alderman tresters comments That would be the case in some places. It doesn't we have not seen a site plan We have not seen where property corners are we haven't seen where anything of that nature is so Um, albeit you can put this in agreement. You may Put this in agreement and direct this to the conditional use permit process and have the planning commission addressed that in further detail As part of it because as of now we have not seen a site plan and the maps that are shown are Primarily maps of the annexation area. It's not necessarily, you know, right on the property line That'll all come as part of a final survey So I think it's premature In nature to understand where that property line isn't is it in the water? Is it not in the water? And that will all come out as part of the development plans when they submit them So it may be who of you two have some language directing the Conditional use permit process through the planning commission to be able to address this issue Thank you for those comments all their person leave mendozki If we don't know what the site plan is going to be why are we even voting on it tonight? Are any other comments Any other discussion all their person trester? I have to agree we have been kept in the dark about a lot of things with this agreement and we have Nothing really but collars say so that these things are the way they're going to be And I would like to see us put this on hold until we have some more information your All their person trester you're ignoring the comments I made earlier and the ones that jad pelichak just made that this will be addressed In more detail in that uh conditional use permit Okay, but once we've already voted for the annexation and once we've already voted for this we can't go back And I'm saying put this thing on hold until we have more information We will not put it on hold until we have It has to be voted on before we will schedule anything on a conditional use permit They have to get all of their permits before we can condition Send out a can can prove a conditional use permits then some of us are going to vote no on the annexation. Well, that may be Is there any other discussion? Okay, we have a motion on the floor to create a clause in the agreement that would address Waterfront rights You ready for a vote You want me to read it? Does everybody understand the motion? I think they do. Okay. All those in favor when I see we'll do a roll call Right. Thank you All the person drawn Thank you. All the person ross I didn't hear it. Please repeat that all person ross Hi, thank you 14 eyes two nose Motion passes Under further discussion all the person sorenson. Yeah, so I think that was just an example of us shooting from the hip again Um, and I think that we're really picking things from the air. So I move that we refer this back to finance second We have a motion on the floor to refer back to finance Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none with a clerk, please call the roll for refree referral to finance Hold on just a second All the person drawn All the person ross Thank you. I've got it. I hit the wrong button. I've got to change my vote to me. I can change it for you. Thank you all been born May you said yes me Nine eyes seven nose motion passes Next we'll go on to 8.5 is general ordinance number six of 17 18 by all the person born in sorenson and nexing territory To the city of shaboy again All the person born Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to pass the ordinance Sorry, thank you for that motion and support the ordinance is before you for discussion all the person Holds you. Thank you. I have a number of questions That I have um, let me begin by we have gotten a number of emails from a lot of different people And I've been able to put three of the questions that were raised to rest one being that um Daryl attended a meeting in madison, which he did not Um attorney adam signing paperwork that the attorney from kohler drafted He reviewed them changed some of the verbiage And signed them, but he did not just get the letters from the kohler attorney. So that was nonsense as well and I can't remember what the other one is but I'm concerned because During um public forum and these hearings we listen to what everyone says, but we cannot comment As to what they say and we pretty much just listen And and my quit on my questions are And I'll save the biggest one for last is um I'm assuming just by All the chat that I heard from the town of wilson that nobody fertilizes their grounds or anything They're not allowed to do that in the town of wilson. So there's absolutely no fertilizer going on there Because the golf course Said that they reduce it to 20 percent. It wasn't that they didn't have any the in that meeting. It said 20 percent um I still struggle with land ownership That people who own property have the right to decide what they're going to do with that property I don't I'm Don't believe that we have the right to tell them Just like we wouldn't have the right to tell you who you could who couldn't sell your property to And it bothers me. Um, we did not have um They're saying that we the city of shabuigan did this all secretly. Well Color came to the city and filed an application To do an annexation. There was nothing secret about that So I you know, I I'm getting so I'm resentful for all the different things that and in city's remarks that they keep making About the city when we didn't bring this on ourselves They came to us. Am I in favor of it? Maybe not so much, but I don't like to be Um, you know get off the cross somebody else needs the wood I don't think that we constantly need to take the barrage of Of this and and you know you guys the town of wilson has had three years to work on this They've sent all their information to us To read so we've read three years worth of their research and some of it has turned out not to be the greatest tabits of information But and I and and we should look at the past behavior and the past behavior I recall very very distinctly with the field of dreams And I remember being threatened and I remember being harassed and that was all for the field of dreams This doesn't seem like it could go much differently But the one part that I'm very very concerned with and needs someone to answer the question is for the property on stall road Where um the 80 I forgot how old he was Fellow is forced to have to go into the annexation I totally do not agree with that and I wonder if someone could explain to me why we're forcing this person To annex I don't understand why we would do that to someone city attorney. Could you respond to that? so The statute Talks about how annexation occurs. So I'm going to go back to basics. First of all and explain a little bit of how municipal municipal government works in the state of wisconsin We have three types of municipalities towns villages and cities towns are designed to be sort of the You know the the areas the rural areas that are lightly populated don't provide any services Cities and villages are Level up. So when the statutes were were written, um, you know Basically having to do with the responsibilities of cities villages and towns annexations The idea was that you would have cities and as cities would grow. They would annex the area around them In the state of wisconsin, uh, there have been some changes to those laws that have made it a little more difficult for annexations to occur You'll see in some other states where they haven't made those changes Annexations have occurred. Um, you know much more often and generally, you know to the benefit of the general public That being said, however, the state Does provide um that there are a number of types of annexation and because annexation does Deal with the best interest not necessarily of one single property owner But of a larger group of people It is possible to do a non unanimous annexation They and that was what was done here in this case, uh, five of the six electors in the area signed on Had there been uh, there are some Safeguards in the law if enough electors in the area had been found to challenge they could have done that and You know, there there would be some additional requirements in that regard But the state law does indicate that there is an understanding that whenever you're annexing you're generally doing what's best for Or hopefully you're doing what's best for the group Rather than the individual and so sometimes you're going to bring people in That don't necessarily want to be brought in they're not losing their property They're just simply becoming citizens of the city of shabuigan because it is now recognized that they are No longer in a rural area, but they're now in a populated area Can I respond to that please is there any way Shape or form that we can Make sure that this fellow on stall road is not part of the annexation Because if we're going to force him I'm going to be forced to say no to this The the answer to that is no Because the city does not control The borders we can't amend the borders to the to the boundary agreement When coler came in with their request we're bound by those Even though we may not like those Boundaries for any number of reasons Thank you so much Administrator hoffman For approximately Hour hour and a half. We spent considerable discussion on the prenexation and development agreement I think some good changes were made Very thoughtful deliberation Ultimately a motion was made to refer it back to finance and personnel I know during that discussion several of you including Alder Donahue identified that Her concern was that you In essence are on the driver's seat of making these decisions and you're not deferring it Some of these critical things to the city plan commission The provisions of the prenexation agreement in fact could be covered by a conditional use permit And ultimately if there is a vote on the Annexation ordinance and then on the permanent zoning Then in essence you've lost I think your right to approve a prenex prenexation agreement As I mentioned it could be covered by the city plan commission But that would take you as elected officials out of that decision making process I sense that there is significant interest by the common council In proceeding with that prenexation agreement and so Until you were able to take a vote at a subsequent meeting As a result I would recommend that you table the next two items on the agenda to allow the Prenexation and development agreement to have its due consideration and be brought back before the common council as a whole Thank you Alder person Donahue And I would certainly support that in the meantime And I will make that motion if it's debatable It is debatable to send back to committee if that's what you're doing Well, I think I think what if this is a motion to hold That's debatable as well. It's similar and the only reason I say that is the Chair of the town of wilson and the chair of the town of wilson plan commissioner here And I would move to open the floor to them for their brief remarks and to answer questions that we might have of them I think as the collard company was able to present at the At the plan commission we should allow the the town of wilson officials to speak briefly regarding their Regarding their concerns. Is there any objection to opening the floor to john annman? I think we should do it at a later date, so we okay We have a request to open the floor We're putting that up to a vote Would the clerk please call the roll for opening the floor to the town chairman john annman And I just back up once because you had a motion to hold That's So, okay, we've got that seconded right and now you're going to make an additional motion And and this is just for the purpose of bringing mr. Emond and roger miller who's chair of the plan commission Forward to answer any questions That might be on people's minds now because as all their whole whole shoes said when we listen to people We're not able to respond to them or to ask questions and this would be an opportunity to do that So as there is some opposition, I would move formally that floor privileges Be granted to these two individuals And was there a second to that? I'll second that Sorry to either one Okay, both point of order. So what was that two motions? Can we only vote on one motion? We're only doing one motion at a time So which motion Opening the floor To two people and it was the town The town chair and the chair of the plan commission for brief remarks and to answer questions Okay, so we understand the motion we're voting on Click please call the roll Other person drawn Andy ross Thank you Nine eyes seven nose Motion passes gentlemen, please approach the podium floor is yours Good evening. My name is is john eamon and I am the chairman of the town of wilson And I would really like to thank you for the opportunity to speak with you this evening I I think that we may be able to add Some answer some questions that you have in particular, uh, roger miller Who has a lot of technical expertise in this? There's been a lot of I agree with one of the alderman Aller person saying that there's been a lot of misinformation around this and you know, we're here To try and talk about what what the objective facts are My message for you, uh, this evening is to really, uh, seriously Seriously consider the possibility that the path you are going down with this annexation and zoning In particularly the rushed way you were going about it, which I know a number of alder persons had some concerns over that Without the proper due diligence and debate is a it's a very precarious one and We feel it's an unnecessary one You know for you to reach the goals and get to where you want to be I I really hope that you understand that this type of non-unanimous annexation They're rarely used and they tear communities apart. I mean you can google it. That's the first thing that you're going to read It's plain and simple Your own manager of planning and zoning acknowledged this in emails to kohler company on may 19th 19th When he said this this is going to be a very controversial request So it's imperative that the kohler company provide all of the justifications They can as to why the plan commission and count common counsel should annex this property. I think that's sound advice He also added that these commissioners and all the persons Are going to be on the hot seat And I understand how that hot seat feels He also said that another issue I believe kohler company will need to be prepared to address is the fact of annexing people's property That do not want to be annexed. You should be prepared to appropriately address this sensitive issue I agree with that and uh, there is not only you should know that there is not only one residents that is being forced to annex There are several The the five People that I believe that sign the petition four of those are our rentals. They're not even property owners. They're renters of two kohler owned properties The fifth Is a woman who I've talked to and she told me the reason she voted for it because she was approached by the kohler company to Purchase her home and she felt that if she signed that she that would put her in a better position to get as much money for her property She wanted there's nothing wrong with that. I told her my advice to her was do what's best for you But you have to realize that these five signatures Are not looking at the best interests of the community in mind. They're looking at their their own interests And the owner of river of riverdale golf course is being Asked to required to annex a portion of his land So now a part of that golf course is in the would be in the city a part would be in the town And there are other property owners along this path that would be required to annex against their will as well So so please keep that in mind I hope you also realize how damaging this annexation will be to the town of wilson And i'm telling you it's really stressing our residents I've heard from countless numbers of people over the past several weeks and and They're they're mad as heck and they have no idea. They're in disbelief how this could even happen to them Not the golf course necessarily that's not what they're talking about some are some are for it But it's this antic forced annexation upon them And and as you saw this evening, you know, a lot of people are frustrated that they're not able to talk to you face to face about the annexation they Were kind of limited although they were kind of creative they were really limited to to the zoning And to that zoning and roger's going to talk a little bit more about this But I hope you also realize that the request for sr5 zoning in this annexation territory It obviously goes against your your long-term comprehensive plan And and your your your zoning map and that's why you have that before you this evening to amend the zoning map But the reason that you are you are You are rezoning to sr5 is is because It's not because the zoning change is consistent with the characteristics of that land And or with the permitted uses in the surrounding properties It's Instead to accommodate the request of one landowner And John yes, right now the item that's on us Agenda is just the ordinance to do the annexation the zonings are different items So if we could keep the presentation to the annexation, I'd appreciate it Okay, fair enough I will also ask you to to seriously take a moment and reflect and really ask yourself of this type of of hostile annexation Aligns with the values of our community and if it sets a good example for how local government should behave I also hope you realize how inept that doa report is And not because of its conclusion Um That doesn't surprise me really at all but because of the really Hibbs almost absurd way in which the doa justifies their conclusion Not only do they we believe they shoot themselves in the foot by misinterpreting case law But they make this absurd claim that the black river neighborhood And the colder property itself make made up almost entirely of dunal forest is urban in nature My goodness folks Come on. I mean how can anyone say that or anyone believe that really with a straight face So I hope you realize that's why we really seriously question the doa's can Report obviously as advisory to you. We just don't feel like you're getting good advice And we feel it's much more politically Derived than it is really legally justified So, you know related to that, you know, I lastly, I hope you understand why non unanimous annexations often lead to litigation and they are very expensive And I suspect that you do know that now Because that was all part of your your pre annexation agreement So I guess with that I'm going to turn it over to roger to talk about a few more of these issues in a little bit more detail Good evening ladies and gentlemen John and I both have busy day jobs just all of you and it's in our volunteer roles that we spend our nights like this So we understand the position you're in Also, each of us In our day jobs work far beyond just town of wilson or far beyond just the city We have financial and business interests in both. We have citizen interests in in both in fact Our radiuses of of really community interest are not only just the county, but well for johns are confined to the county But for me goes well beyond I did plan on just five minutes, but this floor and you folks we have brought up a couple of issues that are directly germane to annexation And I'm now confused on Council persons donahue motion Uh, did that motion read to open the floor to only the annexation subject or to both? Because it would be more efficient to do both, but if you want them one at a time I would like to of us to be able to provide town input on zoning because that also directly affects adjacent lands If you make a presentation on zoning, we have to do that when the next question is on the floor So you need to just deal with the annexation. I shall do so. Thank you um and and related and zoning is really the major issue because Zoning is relatively easy to change as needed on individual parcels through a rather routine process Which are plan commission leads, but of course the annexation is a much more durable complicated issue that involves many other factors Um and administrator hofflin introduced an idea tonight that to my knowledge is the first public information of and it's the first that I heard um going to This town of wilson platenap where city of sheboygan boundaries, which I agree with department of administration um reviewer eric schmitke our boundaries are Inconveniently irregular for a number of purposes Um, but they're not irregular because of either the town or the city doing any annexation actions They are all the result of over the years of successive successive unanimous consent annexations. In fact, if we go back a ways The zimbo link farm, which is an anomalous island within the city um That and the conical or refinery which was here where the piggly wiggly complex and stores are We're well outside of the city back from those things happened So uh, there's some older history that neither the city nor the town have exerted A municipal effort to try to clean up in the way that we handle it right between ton of wilson Public works and dave biebel's public works in the city as we've always collaborated together to provide convenient services To divvy up snow plowing We talk about road budgets. In fact right now in the course of planning along with the county Is the very important upgrade Of weeden creek road from 12th street To south business drive and the county will be presenting that plan So no matter what happens with annexation in the town We're going to continue to participate with your public works to provide good service economically to all citizens in both the town and the city now A brand new idea that just the city introduced this last week In spite of color company saying For three years and color company has done some good of water supply well tests for test wells In their property, which is this white zone That um, notwithstanding some of ton of wilson citizen concerns And I would like to help separate that ton of wilson citizens are speaking on their own be halves John and I are speaking officially On the part of the town, but you did hear tom stove a town A commissioner and nancy desjardins speak on some broader issues Yes, thank you on some broader issues But john and I are going to really confine ourselves to To the subject issue now the issue that Uh, Mr. Hoffman has just brought up is in addition to this idea last week That instead of color company using wells Color will spring for 1.8 miles of city water main from here down to here And that only came up last week And uh, and that won't be able to serve land to the west Or east because that state park It and town residences which already have water wells. It won't be able to serve Existing residences to the west because those are already served by private water wells But what mr. Huffman said tonight is the real idea is if we put that water line in And then if we put another one in here and then put a connecting loop Which is always a good idea for water mains In fact, it's not a good idea to have a dead end water main to just a seasonal demand because that's a big frost issue what what is what he's announced tonight And now is a bigger elephant Is uh, apparently just announced tonight city plans to be structuring water supply So that in addition to annexing this property They'll have infrastructure in place to begin annexing all of section 16 all of section 15 all of section 10 Think about that in your annexation considerations because That's never been mentioned before never talked about before wasn't before your plan commission You guys haven't talked about it your water utility which is headed up by joe trueblood Bright guy. He used to work for me his chief engineer rich dale used to work for me That's because working in the public sector tough as it is is easier than private consultancy Um, I stopped in to talk to them both of them were out in the field So I talked to damien junior engineer and that was just last Early last week and he said gee this idea was just presented to us We haven't had time to even begin our studies on it, but city has said yes They are now asked to begin that process Um, the idea of instead of just an eight or ten inch main being 16 inch as you mentioned Typical rule of thumb is 120 150 bucks a linear foot for one point point eight miles I'll let you do the arithmetic. Could you please get back on on the annexation? You're you're getting into water Well services are directly related to annexation In fact, they are the normal valid reason to justify an annexation So you can't separate the two So at any rate a typical cost is 120 150 bucks a linear foot for 16 inch waterline That's not counting the road repair cost. So just for that first segment You're probably looking in the range of one to one and a half million for that little bit Now, um I'm not going to talk about any of the other services Originally called our company said to the city. We need a city sewer because the city treats it better Last week john and I gave Council through sue richards an official submittal called Notes to council Now those are officially supplied even though they don't appear In your acceptance tonight, which surprises me Um, you don't have to answer the question, but I hope all of you have those into possession There's about four pages and a lot of information that's key information That if you're not informed of You really have no idea of the myriad of issues that are involved in services and annexation Now, uh, I'm going to touch briefly on the doa letter Town's attorney for that expert on that is bob's item He lives now in fint couver. He used to live in wisconsin. He spent a number of years in doa doing eric's job When and The reason the town submitted. Oh, so in doa review doa receives the petition Then they receive any written inputs The town of course provided written input That information is in the package you got for notes last week if you haven't reviewed that Which of course your plan commission couldn't because the issue came up so quickly So just you know the plan commission's review Couldn't even consider a lot of the information that was its duty as due diligence to consider Now eric says the reason or he says although this annexation geometry is not ideal That he thinks it's in the public interest because he's in his opinion The timber lake subdivision, which is right here Is of urban character In in some more information you're going to get tonight which john is going to hand out their photographs At these numbered locations and there's a key map on that that shows you the nature of that subdivision which is even More natural than the rest of all of this area which is in the town with residents served by Private wells, but eric feels should all be annexed to the city because he feels it's of urban nature Also in that packet is information on sr5 zoning. I won't talk about that itself explanatory Then he opines because that's of urban nature. This too Should be annexed even though it's the most natural lands Now i'm going to talk briefly about how contrived this connection is to the city Because you really need to know about that Because There is no reason that the city Should just say yes, and I don't think our citizens will let us but it'll be up to the town board and citizens I don't think they're going to say. Oh, yeah, it's okay Run a water line down here annex this now and now start working on all of these sections I don't think that's going to fly Haven't asked him, but that's the general gist of it In the annexation petition You may not have gotten the colored version So this blue geometry Is the same geometry as this um This first connection is important And there's a detailed photograph In the handouts john will give you But the beginning of the connection to the city Begins with this large lot that's in the city It's a high-end home right here next to the golf course in front of it is a rather new house right along double e This house has long had since it's beginning a private water well It's sanitary discharges directly to the town of wilson sanitary system Most of that lot is flood plain in wetland It cannot be developed or subdivided into any more residences as our shabuigan county economic developer says We need lots more land for more residences as I go down through this land through this string You will see there is not one opportunity for another residence for this annexation Nor is any proposed the next land down is the western portion of guy millers recently acquired riverdale golf course He is not a consenter. He did not sign what he was told by coller company didn't seem to make sense with him Now we're going to go down south a little bit So this bit Is right through here Now we're going to go down to this which is actually some land a witted wetland owned by the city That's an L shape that goes this way That of course is in there the city is not an elector so it doesn't get to sign the the elector petition The elector petition for the annexation has five signatures Two in one rented house two in another rented house one landowner. I'll get to that next as the basis for annexation Moving down the string a bit. This is the city owned lot Now it jugs east across the middle Of a lot that the fella died. It's in an estate there So there's no elector owner representative. So, uh, they can't can't even be a signature But they're not consenting it even divides their lot Between city or excuse me town city town now it crosses across some more of the golf course and now it heads east a little bit What is the one of the most gerrymandered things you'll see Roger, it's already been 20 minutes and this was supposed to be a brief presentation. So could you please wrap it up? Okay, dope I'm having to make up for no opportunity for the town to speak to the plan commission My only intent is for you folks to have some idea of what you're getting into So i'll wrap it up. So this house is 40 percent of the signers of the petitioners apparently, um They need services or something even though all houses around them don't well John is described that was recently purchased by coal company the sellers live in it now We cross these other lands Avoiding houses that objected. We come to nina staple. John talked about that she was I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You don't have the floor Um, her land cannot be developed now We have the second house that was purchased by coaler that has renters now We go up the driveway to a coaler subdivision which is almost 20 years old but not fully developed For some reason uh in the annexation is a large part of the state park That cannot be developed and then we get to that property So if you'd please read the notes that you were given Last week as soon as we knew this got on the agenda because your agenda only came out recently You will have just begin to be informed of some of the issues. There are a whole lot more Thank you very much roger. I'd like to call up david bevel david bevel David prepared some information for us on past history on annexations and I'd like to open up the floor to him for that presentation Thanks, mayor Jack, can you remove those maps that are blocking david's map? Thank you It's been a long night Very emotional Um from a lot of residents Many from the town of wilson some from the city of shabuigan but Tonight really is a watershed moment in the history of the city of shabuigan The city of shabuigan is over 150 years old And over its history Opportunities for growth and expansion have been presented to prior councils in the past and in front of you These maps in which on your table The eight and a half of 11 Depicts the history Of the city of shabuigan's Growth in its history of 150 year plus There's three There's 388 annexations that have occurred over the history of the city of shabuigan 388 Growth in expansion of cities is not only necessary, but essential for the overall health of a community Um, there's an offered david rusk Great book cities without suburbs and he states When city when a city stops growing it starts to shrink Bad state laws can hobble cities Neighbors can trap cities Old cities become complacent Young cities are ambitious and listening to a lot of the discussion takes me back about 30 years ago When the same issue was occurring on the north side of shabuigan when the town of shabuigan had Well, well issues Same issue. We're going to be good neighbors. We don't want to be annexed Let us put our own water system in We can have boundary agreements. We can share Well, let's let's let's take a look at that example Let's just take the last 20 years In 1990 the city of shabuigan had a census population of 49,587 10 years later in 2000 the census that population was 50,792 And the most recent census figure in 2010 The city of shabuigan's population was 49,288 And according to the department of administration in 2016 our population Is 48,653 I think that's a decrease in population not growth Let's take now. Let's take the town of shabuigan who 20 30 years ago we talked about non-annexing Because we want to be good neighbors In 1990 the town of shabuigan's population was 3,866 In 2000 That population grew to 5,874 And again 2010 That census population in the town of shabuigan now is 7,271 2016 the department of administration Their estimate 7,435 They virtually doubled in 20 years They've also had some major commercial development as we're all well aware of All the while the city constrained by its neighbors Not being able to expand has lost population further burdening the remaining tax base Even our neighbors to the south during this same time frame Has grown about 14 and a half percent in their population Annexations are fundamental and critical for cities to thrive Without annexations cities need some form of regionalization shared revenue agreements in order to be successful I haven't heard one offer tonight about shared revenues sharing Sharing tax base so forth The townships Thrive because of the close proximity to the city. It's convenient They can use our parks. They get the shopping districts. They can use the library. They can use the drop-off site Other services without having the burden of having to share in the taxes Is that fair? The issue tonight that our city faces is not about being a good neighbor It's not about a golf course It's not about environmental issues. There's other agencies and experts that will review and do the permitting on that It's not even about the coal or company No That's not that's not the issue. The issue is Is the future of the city of shuboigan? And i'm not talking just five years from now and how it's the return on the investment What's the cost of this infrastructure and we're how are we going to pay for this? No, we're talking 50 100 to 150 years from now They're going to say We had an opportunity to annex 500 plus acres potentially and What's what what what's that decision going to be? It's really I hope we look back on this moment And look at past decisions at the council and say what if We had a what if 30 years ago in the town town of shuboigan That we have the same dilemma this evening many of the past annexations As you can see when when annexations first developed there are nice square blocks as State law changed you can see the irregular shapes of annexations over time That's not uncommon. That's the norm State law practically dictates those proverbial balloon on the string And it's important it's important Quiet please irregular shapes all over this map if you look at them over the history are all in that case Many of the past annexations that the city has has that haven't been an issue is when the city's actually bought the land We bought land for the business center We bought the sugar property. We bought land for residential subdivision growth on norse When the city owns it it's it's really easy to annex rarely Do we get a private annexation petition to occur? this size We talked about shuboigan's population being stagnant for decades All the surrounding townships continue to grow If the city is continue to progress and grow Annexations will be unnecessary And strategic initiative that we're going to have to consider Put this in perspective The importance of this annexation This is the largest annexation of land for the city of shuboigan since 1959 You can tell everything this checkerboard. They're all small annexations rarely In the history. Do we get an opportunity like this that's presenting it this evening? so I ask when you consider please remember the issue is not about being a good neighbor It's not about a gulf course. It's not about environmental issues. And it's not about the cooler company It's about the future of the citizens of the city of shuboigan It's a riot If you want to leave you can leave but please be quiet Quiet please And you should respect this office and this this council Please proceed david Goodbye I'll close me For closing this out again The point being is that Anissations are difficult, but they are very necessary They're very necessary for the long-term growth and vitality of a community And if we don't take the opportunity to really seriously consider the long-term implications of expansion We're going to further constrain our existing tax base And it's it's proof in our population growth as the census figures demonstrate Thank you very much It's now we're back to General ordinance. Is there any other discussion on the general ordinance? This is a motion to hold There's a motion on the floor to hold Is that been seconded? It was made by alderman donaghew and seconded by alderman trester Very good Is there any discussion on that motion? To hold All the persons to that view Thank you, mr. Mayor if we this is a question directed to the city administrator if we If we choose to hold this Actually, what I mean to say is if we don't hold this now and vote on it Aren't we losing our leverage with the pre annex agreement? Thank you It's it's my opinion. Yes you would need to rely upon the city planning commission to Incorporate some of these provisions of the pre-anxation agreement into their conditional use some of you express concern of delegating that responsibility As opposed to it remaining here at the common council level. Thank you Is there any other discussion? All the person will thank you, mayor when we're making a making a motion and voting on The ability to hold Don't we need to at least put a date on it? I'd like to make a motion to to hold it over to july 17th meeting Thank you for that amendment. Is there a second second Okay, so we have an amendment on the floor to hold it over to uh july 17th Is there any discussion on that amendment? Seeing none will the clerk please call the roll Okay, all those in favor of the motion, please signify by saying aye opposed Okay, we can't do a roll call on that All right, okay, so we're going to do a roll call on that I can't hear a word you're saying what she said that was they said it was all eyes And so do we need to do a roll call? You just need to be clear. I think you just I would do it again and wait until the others have voted one way or the other Before you ask for the negatives Okay, all those in favor, please signify by saying aye Aye All the person drawn all right all the person uh, Andy ross Andy ross Aye And anybody against it Okay, the motion passes unanimously Now we have to vote on the motion as amended. So basically it's the same motion All those in favor of the motion as amended, please signify by saying aye Aye Andy Ross That was roman. Aye Andy ross. Okay, we have all eyes. That's unanimous. Okay. Now we're moving on to the The zoning document that's 8.6. I'd entertain a motion to hold that To the same meeting Thank you for that motion and support Is there any discussion on that motion? Seeing none All those in favor, please signify by saying aye Aye All the person drawn Aye All the person ross Motion passes unanimously Are there any other matters this evening? Yes city Attorney 9.1 is In RO by the city clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending December 31 2017 June 30 2018 and June 30 2019 That'll be referred to the law and licensing committee Item 9.2 is a resolution authorizing the purchase of 606 north 9th street Of the former social security office for future use by the city that will lie over Those are the other matters under section 9 Okay, next we have a contemplated closed session all the person wolf Thank you, mayor. I make a motion to uh to convene in closed session under exemption provided in section 19.85 sub 1 sub e Of the wisconsin stats Of where competitive bargaining reasons require the closed session related to a possibility acquisition and property between South business drive and interstate 43 and for the purpose of conducting Specified public business or competitive and bargaining reasons require the closed session To wit developing negotiation strategies for collective bargaining Thank you for that motion in second, but the clerk call the roll for closed session All the person drawn All the person ross Thank you And Susie could you please vote to go in the closed session Scott could you please vote to go in closed session What are you missing? I don't have a complete vote. Who didn't vote? I need Mike Ryan I Um We haven't finished the vote yet. We haven't finished the vote yet 15 eyes one no Okay, for the public at home this will end our broadcast for this evening. We'll be adjourning in closed session We're going to take a Three-minute break and then we'll reconvene Thank you very much


My name is Eduardo Silva. I work for this company which is called Treasuredata. And at Treasuredata, we provide a service in the cloud where you can store data. I'm not going to do a sales speech, but it's relevant for the context. So if you are selling a service where you are going to store data in the cloud, before to store the data, you need to collect the data. So in order to collect the data, we created a project which was called Fluendee, like five, six years ago. And nowadays, Fluendee is part of the CNCF. We always made the Fluendee open source because most of the background of the company's open source. So there was no business reason to keep it closed. So why not make it open? And what happens later is that we had many contributors using Fluendee for their own purposes. And that's why it has grown. And then we gave out Fluendee to the CNCF and it continued to grow. So what I do basically on Treasuredata, I'm a software engineer. And I work with the Fluendee team and also I'm a maintainer of Fluendee project, which is a project that we mentioned early this morning. And all about related to Kubernetes, cloud native, performance, connectivity. So this session, we're going to talk about logging. And as I said this morning, if we want to come up with a really good solution for logging, we need to understand the concepts behind it. It's not that easy, as I said, I'm going to install just a component, a product, and this will work magically. But at this point, it's not like that because if you have an environment which is scaling like crazy, you need to scale logging. So you need to understand how things works internally so you can adapt your own configuration, improve your performance, and make it more reliable. So monitoring exists because we want to monitor something or because we want to troubleshoot something. Logging is not just for troubleshooting because there are many applications in production which generate login information but without statistics, meaning okay, this is the data that my user is using and my mobile game application, the user from that application, that game is moving to this phase, is purchasing this kind of information, and sometimes in the server side, they use logging for that purpose. So it's also monitoring troubleshooting. But if you think about standalone application, how do they work? Basically, what they do is to write to a log file or write to a login service like syslog or syslog or write to a remote service when they chip the login message from point A to point B. But from an operational perspective, sometimes things can get complex because if you have one application or two, that's fine but if you have multiple applications in these multiple hosts, logging becomes more complex. And when we talk about the multiple hosts, multiple nodes, and those kind of things, we start talking about distributed systems and that is something very relevant for the concept of Kubernetes and how do we design the architecture for our applications. So if your application is composed for multiple services, sometimes with the couple application and make different small application, sometimes this application will run in different nodes, nodes I mean a host, a virtual machine. And this application and services also as I said before might scale. So from a login perspective, we can have many sources of information. Also each application, and I'm sure of that has their own way to do login. Think about that. You're going to have your production application, you hire one guy to develop one microservice or their team to develop a different service. And what is common is that they are not going to have the same way to do login. And I mean formats, login formats. Maybe everybody's running through the file system, which is pretty fine, it's pretty stable. But having different formats is a pain. And let a company do, please, the whole development teams are going to use the same format, it's hard. People will complain and that does not happen. That's the truth, not yet at least. So if we have also an application, different applications, and we want to do some data analysis, we want to understand that some logs come from application A, from host B, or from different service or a different cluster. So we need to add the notion of identity and that it's related to metadata. So if we jump into the cloud native space, this is okay. Cloud native is all about scaling, resiliency, but if we talk about cloud native login, so we say that this is more complex. Distributed application is one thing, running a cluster of a hundred of nodes or more, even more complex. So we understand that we have a problem. We don't know yet how to solve it, but a scale application also requires to scale login. So if we think about how to solve the problem in a cloud native space, we need to think about, okay, how can I consume the logs or the information from the application from different sources. Also, this information besides the format might have a structure or might not. If it doesn't have it, well, that means that we need to do some extra work. We need to enrich the logs with metadata, where these logs are coming from, and also we need to be able to deliver the logs to a central place for analysis, because login is not an end, right? Logging is just a tool that maybe we can use to take information from one side and centralize information on another side to do our own analysis. As I said many times, many people said that login is boring, and it is. It's login because it happened behind the scenes. It's not like a dashboard. Okay, you can do Kibana stuff, log visualization, but that is after the storage, not in the main, the main while you are collecting the data. And that's why login becomes complex, because you don't have too much visibility from that perspective. So who's familiar with web server logs? Please raise your hand. Okay, an application like a web server log, okay, for who's not familiar, if you have a browser like Firefox, Chrome, that's the client side, but also you have the server side, which is the web server. And a web server also is registering to the file system or any kind of login mechanism. Who's accessing and what time is accessing and what kind of resource is trying to access. And of course, maybe accessing a resource could be successful, maybe it failed because the resource is not there or it does not have the right permissions to access to it. If we wanna do log analysis for that special scenario, look at this. From one special case, that's fine, but if we have multiple applications in different places, that becomes hard. For example, in host A, we have three different web services. Okay, one of them imagine, there's PHP, there's Python, and the other maybe is Apache. But also we have a host B, which is running MySQL with the different formats for the logs. So if we want to unify this information and do data analysis, we'll become a lot more complex. So how do we approach this? Because different sources, different applications, different log formats, different nodes, different hosts. So if you were here in the morning, in the keynote, we describe about the login pipeline. Any kind of problem that you have even in your life or in software engineering, you need to come up with the right solution. If you understand the problem, you can implement the solution. And that is a software. A software is a component that tries to solve a problem. But before to write the software, sometimes we need to come up with a design. So the login pipeline said, okay, if you are going to work with data or any kind of login formation, what do we need is to have different phases from where we have an input and output, but in the middle, we need to have extra phases to do some extra step. For example, in the input side of the login pipeline means about how do I collect the data? From where do I collect the information? And I mean from a perspective implementation, that means I'm going to tell from log files, I'm going to listen from TCP messages, I'm going to connect to a remote server to pull information, anything. Once you collect the information, you need to parse the data. And parsing means to give a sense or a structure to this information. As I said, data can come in different formats. But if you are going to have a login pipeline, you need to take this information and try to unify to a simple format, which you can understand. And then of course you can decode that information back to the destination format, like elastic search needs a specific format, influx DB and a different format. So we need to unify this and that happens because you can parse the data. Once you parse the data, you need to filter the data. And filtering can mean drop messages because sometimes you don't want to have everything. Who's using Splunk here? One, two, three, four, five. Yeah, you didn't want, okay, I use Splunk. And that's fine, Splunk is really good. The problem is a commercial strategy, right? Splunk is a database, the private database. So, and they have, they implement also part of the pipeline. They skip the filtering, which is really fun. Why? Because when you have this Splunk database server and you run the Splunk forwarders, which chips the logs to Splunk, there's a problem. They chip the whole data. And that has a reason that you pay based on data ingestion. This is really smart. You know, it's really smart, it's really good. But for us, it's not. So that specific use case, skip the filtering part. Filtering can mean drop messages or just let pass these specific messages or also append some metadata. Buffering is such important. Think about this. If I'm going to chip my logs to a separate place, which could be a local service in my network, in my cluster, or maybe a SAS or any kind of service remote in the cloud, what would happen if I have some network outage? I cannot chip the logs. So, I had to take some decisions. Do I want to lose data? No. Some people say, yeah, that's fine. I can lose data. They have terabytes. If I lose five megabytes, it's nothing. And that's okay. But 90% say, no, we need to have buffering. Why? Because if I'm going to road the data to multiple destinations, if something happens, I want to be able to recover from that failure state and retry again. The thing is, everything can fail. And that is fine. Things fails. But you need to be able to recover from that state. So the question is, what's your default behavior when things goes wrong? And for the login pipeline, you solve it with a good buffering, even in a file system or in memory. And of course, that's our end. Be able to centralize the whole logs in just one place. And this can be elastic search, Splunk, can be Apache Kafka or any kind of storage. So, how's it going? It's the last talk. I know that everybody's tired, but let's try it. There's a concept that I mentioned before, which is called the unstructured data. When people generate logs, usually don't have a structure, okay? If you look at that red line, you will see that, oh, that is a web server log line. And then you say, okay, that has a structure. Okay, for you, it has it. Because you know that that is an IP address. You know that you have a timestamp when that message was generated, what's the HTTP method, the resource that you want to access, the URI, the protocol that was used on that moment, the return status code, and how many bytes were returned to the client. So, you understand, this has a structure. But in your mind, but if you give that string to a computer, it will say, okay, this is a byte string. That's it, there's no structure. Unless you add some kind of logic on top of that. So, if we think about this, wouldn't it be better to have a structure? Because think that your goal is to do data analysis. And if your goal is to do data analysis, you want to say, please return me back the whole records that has a status 200. And to accomplish that, we'll be better to have a structure. And here, I'm not just talking about JSON. I'm just talking about the general structure, where it can have a map, a sense of key values. So, with that information, any kind of storage engine can work better. And of course, you can optimize your computing time when you're trying to search for something. So, Structural Logs makes your life easier because you can do also filtering. You can say, please drop the whole messages that has a status 500. We don't care when the server was down for some reason. And also to perform any kind of analytics. So, from the cloud native perspective, we have a login pipeline, but also we need to be aware about distributed system. We need to have strategies for applications. And also, keep in mind that we want to centralize the logs. And that's what Fluent D is. Fluent D is an open source project under the Apache license, and now under the CNCF hands, which allows you to implement a full login pipeline in your architecture. And it does buffering, buffering and also does filtering, which is really good. So, as we said, we have more than 700 plugins available. We have reliability, security, and also, well, it's really in Ruby and C. We have some feedback sometime that's, okay, this is really in Ruby, it's not too fast, but it depends on the use case. And Fluent D is being used for more than 2,000 companies. Just the open source version, imagine that. So, Nintendo is using Fluent D. And did you play Pokemon Go? Yeah. Well, the good thing is that that was deployed with Kubernetes, one of the beta Kubernetes classes, and that was running Fluent D, too. We didn't knew until we read the news. It's not like, okay, we were working with Google to come out. No, it was not like that. You know, they are pretty quiet. So, but as we said, also Fluent D is more than a project. We consider Fluent D as a loginful, login ecosystem. But you get some feedback.  I have this problem. The performance is good, but can we make it better? And I think that that's a goal, right? Making things better every day. And always, I wish future A, B, C, and D. So, from that perspective, like two years ago, we decided to start a new project. To fix some missing gaps in Fluent D, where six years ago, we didn't have too much concepts about cloud native or that kind of things. Fluent D works really well, but we also think that we can make it better. We can make it better as a Fluent D, but also as an ecosystem. So, from a new ecosystem, we come up with Fluent Bit project. And Fluent Bit was started almost two years ago with the same philosophy. Just just try to implement a login pipeline, but also make it compatible with Fluent D, meaning that you can make talk Fluent Bit with Fluent D. You know that Fluent D also can talk over the network with different services, but also with other Fluent Ds. So, Fluent Bit also can take out the logs from your services and talk to a remote Fluent D or any kind of destination that is supported, of course. The highlights of Fluent Bit is that reading in C language. Most of people say, hey, why you didn't write it in Go lang? Well, the answer is we started the project two years ago, that's the first answer. Two years ago, and we wanted to have it very reliable solution for ARM architecture. And two years ago, Go lang was not really well, did not play very well on ARM. So, and also I think that if you want to build something that really skills and you know the language, because you can make C slow also. It's not just the language, it's also, if you know how to make it right, you can increase performance, you can optimize for many angles. So, that's why we choose C. It has a pluggable architecture, we support more than 35 plugins at the moment. It's asynchronous, event driven, support TLS, security, and also monitoring capabilities. And some of the plugins that we have available, we can tell log files, we can listen from messages from system D, we can parse C-slug messages, listen from messages over the network. We can also gather metrics. We were talking about this today, with some guys, one of the first plugins of Fluent Bit to get information from was from the CPU, to measure the CPU where Fluent Bit is running as a whole. Then we added memory, disk, network, and other more. Also, as part of the pipeline, we implemented filters, like Kubernetes filters. So, if you're working in a Kubernetes cluster, as I said, you want to get some notion from where the logs are coming from or where do they belong to. Because you're not going to query the logs. You're going to say, please show me the whole logs that belong to the pod name XB. But you need to have that kind of metadata. Filters allows you to parse, or to modify the records, means add your own custom information. And as an output destination, we support Elasticsearch, Inflex-Db, Kafka-Rest, and Nets, HTTP, and we're going to support Kafka now, native Kafka. And the primary focus of Fluent Bit is Kubernetes and Docker, of course, the cloud native space. It can work everywhere, but if you said, I'm using my Raspberry Pi and I have a bug, and another person said, I have a bug in Kubernetes, you know what we are going to solve first. So, we always get some pushback about that, but we try to prioritize, make some prioritization about the issues. So, let's jump into, now, we talk about logging in general, right? Now, let's talk about Kubernetes and logging, and for that, I need to give you some context, very general context, about how things works in Kubernetes. If you have the notion of an application, that you call of a cluster, you're going to deploy an application, basically, this application runs in a container, right? But a container in Kubernetes belongs to a pod, and a pod can have many containers. So, here, you start to see, okay, logging becomes complex, because you can have also many pods inside a node, a node can be a host, very meta machine or a virtual machine. And in a cluster, these start to grow. Sometimes you can spin up more nodes, drop nodes, applications, you can scale applications. So, how do we implement the login pipeline at this level? To make it right. So, in Kubernetes, there's a concept, which is called DemonSet, and a DemonSet is a pod that runs on every node of the cluster, okay? So, if you want to solve logging, the first thing that you need to do is, of course, read the logs, right? So, using FluentBit or FluentD as a DemonSet allow us, with the right configuration, of course, to read the application's log files, which belongs to the container engine. On this case, it could be Docker. So, once you read the information, what you do is to go to the API server, because you want to get some extra information from that container. Remember that the application does not know that it's running in a container. It don't care about this Kubernetes or it's running on Swarm, it doesn't matter. But, from a logging perspective, what we want to solve in an address is just to give it the notion about where these logs belongs to. So, what do we do is that every time that we are parsing the logs, every log message, we go to the API server if we don't have the information and we append the labels and annotation to that specific record. We're going to see that now in a demo, okay? So, once we collect the whole information, we centralize the output in our database or we can send the data also to multiple places. That is one of the flexibility of FluentD and FluentDepth. Okay, let's make a quick demo. Who's familiar with Kubernetes here? Raise your hand again. Okay, so I can, we can use, can you see my screen? Oh, it's too, okay. Keep CTL, get nodes, make sure it gets around. Okay. I'm running MiniCube, which is a single Kubernetes node cluster running the computer. Because I had a problem this morning with my real cluster. So, what we're going to do is something very basic. As you saw, we don't have any pods running here. But I'm going to deploy an application that will generate just a dummy message to Kubernetes, a dummy message which means to the, a dummy log message. So, I'm going to run it as a deployment. We are going to call it JSON. And this is the image. You can take it if you want. So, oh, JSON is running. So, my pod application is running here. So, just let's take, let's look at the logs. So, what this application is doing is just writing, so I have, you know, well, it's a map here, it's a JSON map. So, we are writing just every second a dummy message to the standard output. What I'm doing is I deploy an application that writes a message, and that's it. I'm querying the information with cube control. Okay, that is one thing. But of course, in a real scenario, for to see the logs of your application, maybe you're not going to use cube CTL logs.  So, the application is running, and what I want to do right now is to centralize these logs in a place. And for the purpose, we are going to use elastic search. Okay, so this is the, watch, TN2. Okay, what I'm doing is like every second, I'm querying the elastic search HTTP endpoint to see if we have some index or we have some documents or some information there, okay? There is nothing. Okay, so what I'm going to do now is to deploy fluent bit, which will allow me, with the default configuration that I just ingested, of course, just to take out the logs of the whole pods or application that are running and ingest that information back into elastic search. So, if you want to see the demon set file, it's a demon set. Here we have the image, right? Very basic. We are talking to elastic search, which is my local host, because it's mini-cube, that's the magic IP, the TCP port address, and that's it. There are the volumes that we need to learn to read the application logs, okay? So, cube CTL, create. Okay, cube CTL, get on. Okay, so fluent bit is already running. And if everything is right, I'm going to see some logs here, as is refreshing. Okay, if you see every second or every two seconds depends on the delay of the buffer, you are going to see that the number of documents is increasing. That means that something is ingesting data into my elastic search. Well, we assume that is fluent bit, right? It is, so that's why I show you that there's nothing there. Okay, so, if my memory, I mean the computer memory allows me, I'm going to try to run Kibana, which is a log visualization tool. I'm not an expert on Kibana, but I want to show you how the logs looks like in Kibana. Cube comb, oh, service Kibana start. Okay, so let's open Google. So this should be that support. Kibana, if you're not familiar with this, I just ingested the data into elastic search, which is a storage in the database, but also they have another component from the ecosystem, which is called Kibana, which allows you to generate some graphics or query the information in the database.  Our default button, okay, I'm going to switch this to auto-refresh every five seconds. Okay, here some logs are coming in, okay? But what I want to show you is a structure of the logs. Can you still see? Okay, so here I'm going to do a query. Kubernetes that, oh, and I'm going to pause. Okay, what I did is I told Kibana, please show me the whole logs that comes from Kubernetes and have some pod name, which start with JSON. Do you remember that we started a pod called JSON in the beginning? Okay, that's it. So here we have many records, I'm going to open this one, and I'm going to open the JSON version. Okay, what I want to tell you is that every single line that was generated, very simple at the beginning in the terminal, now gets a bunch of information that also adds a notion about from where and what this log means. If you look at here, we have a Kubernetes metadata. And check this, this is the pod name, the namespace, the pod ID, the labels, and all that information, and that is really important. So if you're going to do logging for Kubernetes, you're logging agent, it doesn't matter if you use Fluent D, Fluent B, it or not, but you need to take care about metadata because that is what you need in order to query the information. And if you look carefully, this is the message that it was printing to the screen. But also the logging tool was configured to decompose that message and make the fields and expose them in a different way. So for example, I'm looking at the record which printed the number 304 and also has that word. Okay, so that is a goal of any kind of logging solution. Be able to take out the logs, implement all kind of logging pipeline, work reliable, and also append metadata. And for Kubernetes, this is a must. You cannot chip logs without this. So that was the demo. And what's next? From a Fluent Bit perspective, we are releasing the version 0.13 at the end of the year, well actually December 20th before Christmas. So, and it comes with a huge news that it comes with native support for Prometheus for monitoring. So you can monitor the logging pipeline of Fluent Bit where my records are parsed, how many bytes I'm consuming, how much I'm parsing, dropping and sending out. And also full integration with Apache Kafka.  And, well, thank you.