Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we have Ambassador Bhadrakumar. And we are going to discuss the latest developments in Kartarpur-Pakistan relations, Afghanistan, which somehow is the complex of relations we have with Pakistan for a long time. Kartarpur, one of the Pakistani ministers have called it a googly. And if we remember when Sidhu went and asked for this Kartarpur corridor, he was trolled big time by the BJP. Now it seems that the googly has really been effective. And the BJP has now is basically owning up to Kartarpur. You have asked the question, you have answered it. Literally, that is the situation. Here we took the stance that no engagement with Pakistan of any kind unless terrorism is solved. Now I'll have to go back a little bit to JNK. Really, there is a sophistry in the argument because Pakistan is not doing very much in JNK nowadays. It's actually so much of a homegrown insurgency that 14-year-old boys are pickpocketed under getting kicked. And this is unbelievable. Exactly. That's why I use the word sophistry. They don't want to engage. They means the government. And I'm violently opposed to that. They don't want to engage. And they have to find some conceivable reason for not doing that. You see, it all began when the Huryat wanted to come and meet the Pakistani High Commissioner. That's right. That's where the talks broke off. Talks broke off. And now we are promoting a meeting between Huryat and the Norwegian form of our prime minister. He visits them and talks to them. And he is a credible, well-known figure in international mediation. Now, we've swung to that extent. So you see, this whole thing has fallen flat. We've lost the plot in regard of the relations with Pakistan after raising such high hopes, inviting Mr. Navasharev to come here. The poppinjapi politics and that sort of thing. So all we could do was to keep on saying this, that so long as terrorism continues. And as I said, terrorism is no longer an issue in that sense. We will not engage Pakistan. Now, the point is, the initiative by Pakistan has compelled us to hold an emergency meeting of the cabinet. This is Kartarpur and agree to go ahead with Pakistan on that. We have entered into a constructive engagement with Pakistan. We have not used that expression, but that's what has happened. But the position is that we will not engage Pakistan. And then what happened is, this is such an emotive issue since it is linked to the great legacy and memory of Guru Nanak. And an important anniversary is coming. The ruling elite cannot dissociate itself from that. Just let me interrupt you for a minute on this. If we remember that Kartarpur was not on the anvil earlier. And government or at least the BJP was openly trolling Sidhu on that. Why has it, why when you say it's a emotive issue and so on, why has it become imperative for the BJP government to really go and sort of change its position from its earliest and no truck with Pakistan till terrorism stops? And then why did they have to, as you said, call a midnight cabinet meeting to change its position? After Sidhu's first visit, no one expected a forward moment on this. And then came a decision was handed down to Delhi by Pakistan. And on a decision of that kind, I don't think anybody would have the political courage here in the present dispensation to say, no, we will not cooperate. As I said, this is linked to a very precious memory, a very precious legacy, and for a very important sub-nationality in India. It's very difficult to say, no, you have to associate. And look at it how we associate it. In an environment which is very tendentious or competitive in India today in the domestic politics, this was a bipartisan thing. Congress party. This. Climate. And now, not only that there is a symbolic representation from the union government, it could have been Akali representative for a symbolic thing. BJP also didn't want to be seen as out of it because Sidhu was going from there. And therefore, it also nominated a Sikh minister to go to claim the legacy for itself, to get a little bit of the shine. So I think really speaking, we were clean bowled by the Gugli again, by the Gugli. Let's also, you have been in diplomacy for a very long time. This kind of one-sided gesture without preparation, without talking to the other side, is quite unusual in international diplomacy, isn't it? Normally they come out of an engagement rather than before they engage. You see, the thing with Pakistan is, frankly, if there is a political will, you can go on a very long journey. And you can go very far today. Today, anytime. I've written this also because it's a paradox that this is a terribly popular topic for the Indian public opinion, a good relationship with Pakistan. And that happens to be the case in Pakistan also. Take a journey there, Prabir.  I've lived in that country. That's what I'm telling you.  It's more than in India. I've experienced this. My wife going and stitching is Selvarkamesh. And then the tailor says, madam, how can we take money? You are from India. This is a kind of, it's a very popular thing. So preparations, yeah, preparations. Public goodwill is there. Also in Punjab, the Punjabiya, the two Punjabs should come together and change in our experiences. Now you see, this is where we should really discuss a little bit about the, I mentioned the futility of sticking to the old, the stereotype narrative. Because I closely, I read Pakistani press every day.  They're ready for decades altogether and it's a habit. Now you could see that, you know, that there have been very meaningful signals from the Pakistani military. Of course, as far as the Pakistani political elite is concerned, India is no longer a contentious issue there. No one is fighting any election or any bipolar with India as a topic, you know.  In the surprise, after the, shall we say, the small semifinal, if you will, to the general elections in the five states, there were senior BJP leaders tweeting that this is a victory for Pakistan. So anything that happens in India, BJP doesn't win, apparently it's Pakistan. You see, the thing is, the discourse in Pakistan, you see, that's why I'm saying that the changes that have taken place there, you know, that Pakistan is on a very different level now, you know. Their discourses are not about India and I don't think the discourses are so much even about Kashmir or anything like that. The discourses are about, they are not missing an opportunity, the chance of a lifetime they have to optimally make use of their geography, their immense untapped resources with this huge investment taking place from China and the primacy that is attached to Pakistani policies by the international community, as evident from the U-turn that President Trump took. Trump has taken. I mean, it's a telling example of that and everyone is wanting to have relationship. The colossal failure of our policy to isolate Pakistan which we now realize it is completely unrealistic and a futile effort to do that. So you see, they are on a very different journey now, you know. And I don't think we should have missed it when the first signals came, six months or one year back from the Pakistani military general from the army chief, seeking reconciliation with India, you know. And I thought at that time that without acknowledgement, some meaningful back channel conversation would have begun. You know, now we are today talking where Imran Khan is openly calling the attack in Mumbai as an act of terrorism and saying that Pakistan has to get to the bottom of it because it's terribly important for the relationship also. And he called it actually used the word terrorism. Then he says that, you know, that there are things, you know, where they are mulling over two or three ideas are in the air to discuss about Kashmir. And he said it's a little premature now to say that. And then he speaks about his meeting with Atal Bihari Bajpay. All this after in and around the Katharpur Corridor situation, you know, when the Indian journalists were there. They said about this conversation with Bajpay where it was again mentioned about, you know, the solution for Kashmir possible. So I think he just stopped short of saying that he has an open mind and he's willing to pick up the threats where Manmohan Singh government left them. Now, you know, you made a specific point. I think that's very, very important for our audience that Pakistan changing from a, perhaps a more India-centric policy earlier to a much larger engagement and the economic corridor with China and the economic possibility of growth, engagement with the global economy. All of this is the, as basically the critical elements of changed Pakistan's internal politics in this regard. Do you think Afghanistan could in that sense and Balochistan, both of the problems of Pakistan? Yes, we, perhaps you are very right. You know, the succinctly, very succinctly, this transition in Pakistan can be described in one sentence. It's a transition from the complex of a national security state to one of regional integration. Now, it's a historic transition in that sense.  And it's quite evident now that the Americans have been defeated in Afghanistan. And it's not a question of any longer salvaging the war. It's a question of pulling out of it without much humiliation, you know? At the mobile, 65% of the territories of the Taliban. It's gone and I think fairly at all levels, there is an awareness that this is a hopeless situation. And you know, the thing is, the Afghan army, which is doing the fighting, is losing more men than it is able to recruit now. Okay, so. So it's just about sums up the security situation, the hopelessness of it. And even if they commit now 10 times the present strength, the Americans for which they don't, nobody will take the political decision in Washington. Even if they do that, the tide cannot be stemmed. Now, the point is the south and the east of Afghanistan have been practically lost. And all that can be said as outside the pale of influence of the Taliban are really the northern and the westernmost part, bordering Iran. Westernmost parts and the nonmost parts are also not too close to Somalia. They're not Pashtun areas. They're not Pashtun areas. Azaras and others. Now they are closer to Iran than they are to the Taliban. So quite clearly now, the strums letter which I mentioned earlier and so on, it shows the desperation, you know, to pull out. And the great fear is now Thanksgiving season. That week itself, four American soldiers were killed, you know. And one person who was serving there was Utah mayor, you know. We have mayor of Utah, you know, he had to come, you know, because of the obligations as a reserve service man and so on, came and he got killed, you know. Now you see the thing is Trump definitely will not want to carry this cross when he goes for the election. So when you come to the geopolitics of it, you know, it's easier to invade Afghanistan than to withdraw. History shows it, you know. The British didn't fail much. Anglo have got more onward, you know, that is very difficult terrain. Now we do not realize that the supply lines for the NATO forces and the American forces are all through Pakistan. Still. Otherwise they have to be through Russia. And it's not exactly in British terms either. It's not a friendly terms either. And it is exorbitantly expensive also. And now Pakistanis are not charging anything for this. You know, it's almost gratis. We are overlooking the role that Pakistan has in the Afghan situation today. And an orderly withdrawal from Afghanistan would be impossible without even the cooperation of Pakistan. This is the situation. Do you see the rise of Taliban again in Afghanistan as a threat again to the nation state of Pakistan? No, I don't think so. You know, we can maybe have one full session later on Afghanistan, because it's a profound topic. But suffice to say that the Taliban in my understanding, I have dealt with them, the Taliban in my understanding actually belongs to this traditional Islam. Not to the Tahrir Taliban, which is operating in Pakistan? No. And not to this variety Al Qaeda Islamic state and all that. Which comes really from Saudi, Wahhabi Islam. In other words, they are not part of the global jihadi moment. They are actually Afghan-centric nationalists. And you see, despite the provocations from the Indian side in interfering in the civil war in these years since mid-1990s, they have not really mounted any attack on India, you know, in India. And the attacks of the mission, et cetera, is something which is not only directed against India. You know, missions have been attacked and others have been attacked and so on in the overall anarchic conditions. But they haven't gone like. So I am saying back from Afghanistan. But I'm saying that therefore, just to sum up this point, we must discuss separately this point that I have never believed that the Taliban have an agenda on toward regional security, of regime change in Central Asia, of injecting jihad virus into India. No, not even into Pakistan. Not even into Pakistan. So your contention or your understanding is that the Tahrir Taliban growth in Pakistan is much more homegrown. Yes. And it's more the internal problems of Pakistan with the Pakistan government. Inevitably, as you know, others, foreign powers dabbled in it. You know that, you know, in the sense that the time and again, Pakistan gave precise information to the Americans as to where the notorious fellows were living. But Americans never did took any action. Till lately, they have been compelled to, because Pakistan started non-cooperating itself. Similarly, they got patronage from Kabul from the security establishment. And, you know, the perception grew that, you know, that there might have been an Indian element also, because the security establishment in Kabul has a back-to-back deal with the security establishment in Delhi. And the way intelligence agencies work, you know. Enemies, enemies, your friend. However, reprehensible the might. This lent credibility to the Pakistani propaganda, you know. And I really can't say to what extent there is an element of truth in it. And we can't pause yet. So without getting into the murky details which are not available to us in any case, what you are saying is Pakistan is at a crossroad. And both the military and the civilian administration under Imran Khan are looking to a different kind of engagement. And therefore, this is a historic moment if India is willing to seize the initiative. Yeah, you know, this transition I mentioned towards regional integration. This also means that, you know, that, you know, when you look at it from the Pakistani side, there is also a lot of admiration, even though we run down, you know, our own performance ourselves, and we are never fully satisfied with what we are doing. And we say it's all fudging statistics and all that. But when you look at it from outside, they think, you know, that we have done in the last 10 years or 15 years, we have done remarkably well. Let us look at it, how the Pakistanis are seeing India. They have a problem with the present setup in the sense that, you know, in the present setup, the ruling elite, BJP and the forces which mentor it, the Hindu fundamentalist groups and so on, they are perceived as anti-Pakistan, anti-Muslim. And therefore, the sincerity of purpose, of the present leadership, there is a question mark about it in the Pakistani perspective. The question is therefore having for four years, nine months, made Pakistan the key enemy. And Kashmir as the major plank for, shall we say, rousing nationalism in the rest of the country. That's what really it was doing. Whether now they can reverse that and say, we are now the statesmen, we are going to reap the benefit of a hard political stand, and Pakistan is now coming to us. And therefore, let us, you know, our strategy has succeeded. Could be a possible turn that the Modi government could take. That's to be the real question of asking. I had thought that Prime Minister Modi goofed up. He had a good opportunity when Imran Khan was elected. To really open it up. To really open it up. And to be frank with you, as an observer of Modi's style of politicking, I thought, you know, with his panache for photo ops and grandstanding and so on as a diplomacy, I thought, you know, that he would build it up towards the end of this year to a Sark Summit. Facilitating a triumphant visit to Pakistan. Their calculation was to use Kashmir and Pakistan. That's what I'm saying. Now the point is, if they had been imaginative enough, there was much to be scored out of a thing like that. Peace rather than war. Peace rather than war. Now, even former army people, general have written that the surgical strikes are a joke. That it had no effect. Now, the point is, nobody... Number of, you know, killings on both sides. Both of militants and Indian army security forces have risen to the last point. Now, you see, the point is that your kind of thing which you mentioned that the government went brag that they brought Pakistan down to their knees, there's no empirical evidence showing that. And Pakistanis are not down on their knees. My God, I can tell you, they are not really begging us anything, you know? They want engagement. I am quite completely in agreement with you. But, you know, bragging rights are in Facebook and WhatsApp. And let's not forget that. The second point I want to ask you, this is really my question, do you think Pakistan will engage at this point with the named government? And suppose it loses, then they have to start afresh. So will they do that or they will sort of say, okay, let's talk, let's talk, but really not lead to a solution till the elections take place? You see the, you are looking at it in terms of the Pakistani strategy. I think the Pakistani strategy would be to see that the atmosphere, the conditions are ripe for an engagement when a new government with a fresh mandate comes to power in Delhi. So they will have to manage between now and that point. And I think from the way they are doing, they will do it with a constructive spirit. They are not going to wish it the atmosphere and bring matters to a kind of a big stalemate or impasse at that time.  Take Kartarpur. Now we had a certain kind of bipolarity in India that when BJP is in power, Congress would snipe at BJP. When BJP is outside, it would snipe at Manmohan Singh. We saw that when it comes to Pakistan because there's always consolidation of voters. You know, this is useful. But now the point is that's not going to be possible because on Kartarpur, everyone is on the same page. So I have a feeling that it is a brilliant move by Pakistan even to bring about a consensus, national consensus within India about engaging Pakistan. Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, they have, to whatever extent they might have been involved in the valley, they are no longer doing it. And there is open admission by knowledgeable people who feel the pulse in the valley and who are terribly experienced like Mr. Dullad. For long years, he dealt only with this subject. And if he says that he sees no Pakistani and any longer there in Kashmir, nor the Kashmiri people hangaring for a union with Pakistan, then it's quite clear that if at all there was a Pakistani interference that is not there today. And then this Kartarpur initiative, this one, then maybe for yesterday, in the National Assembly, Pakistani Foreign Minister Kaurasi made a statement. I don't know Indian press reported it, but it was a major statement he made. He has sought cooperation from India in Afghanistan. That's a big statement. That's a complete change. It's a big change, you know. And why did he say that? He said Pakistan recognizes India's influence in Afghanistan. And therefore India's cooperation is useful for Pakistan. So I think- You see the changes that have happened, huh? So let's hope that these changes that are happening, both in Afghanistan, in Pakistan, the economic corridor in Balochistan, all of this takes up continent, South Asia in a better direction, because I think we are all waiting for that. You know that the point is, we have discussed the positive things, but equally there is also the negative things. Like, you know, we both agree that on the economic side, you know, there isn't much to be done now by this government that will make a change in the political climate. I am afraid that other things may happen. You know, I hope they're known because as a patriot, as an Indian, a law-awaiting citizen, it's the last thing you want.  One shudders to think what all can happen. Now, if that kind of a thing happens, then- Then of course all the bits are off. Then all the bits are off. But otherwise we have hope. Then the thing is, always there is this problem of interest groups, you know, Prabir, unless you are of an extraordinarily high level of erudition, you don't admit mistakes, you know? And because you must be a very enlightened person to admit that you can make mistakes, you know? And then here the point is, there is also a gravy train running, you know? And again as part of the establishment, I have seen it, how well looked after these people who are involved in this business of the insurgency fighting and so on in Pakistan. So they are stakeholders in a certain way. And you already saw in the downstream of the Kartapur corridor, the old narrative being rehashed and reproduced again, that Imran Khan is not a free agent, that he's a progeny of the military and so on. In that case, earlier time, the narrative was that, what is the point in dealing with Navash Sharif because he doesn't get along with the military?  So I don't know where the problem is. So you see there, the thing is you're unable to change out of that narrative.  And now there must be therefore a strong political leadership with a certain sense of direction which Manmohan Singh had. That kind of a leadership with a sense of direction is necessary considering that if for some reason it is the same ruling elite which is going to run India for another five years after the next 2019 poll. Well, you must understand that the correlation of forces remain the same. It is the same forces, same groups. You know, the fundamentalist groups which would be mentoring this ruling elite. And probably if that were to happen, then you will see a surge even in that direction. So you see there are therefore, you know, one can only be at best cautiously optimistic. There are very many negative factors also. Thank you very much Ambassador Bhadrakumar. This is all the time we have for today on this in discussing this issue. Cautiously optimistic hope yet, but problems also on the horizon. Thank you very much. Please keep watching Newsclick. We'll come back to you with this and other editions of our news.


Hey guys a little bit of a random talk more. So this is going to be just a one-shoot here Might do these in the future very low editing But more so just what I'm talking about and what I'm talking about today and if you've never played this series I would really highly recommend it is life is strange, especially the first two games being the original life is strange and Then the prequel before the storm both of these games were made by don't nod a games if I'm correct and Is kind of remarkable that they would remember me they would make a game called remember me or something along that lines and It was very unforgettable, but what they did is they essentially took kind of the gameplay aspects of that of Telltale and they definitely added a lot more interactivity to it. They a lot added a lot more Content to it and the first story the first game the game that is based on is based on this game You're playing this girl named max who comes back to her hometown in Portland and She's re because she's been accepted to this expensive call like kind of I almost say college, but it's big high high society art studio and You rekindle or friendship with your old friend max who you actually kind of gave the cold shoulder to when you moved to Seattle years and years ago and since then max has gone through a lot of Trepulation a lot of hardship and While if you hadn't gone through any of those sort of circumstances in your own life But you had friends who did go through that There's already a means of connectivity with Chloe as a character She may be a little bit annoying sometimes then there's sometimes where she has a tad bit over dramatic, but really This game has some of the best story writing In terms of a practical sense the main gameplay niche about it is that you watch Chloe die at the beginning of the game and then you're able to reverse time and You find out you have the ability to reverse time and this gives you kind of really cool Abilities to have different interactions with conversations like oh if you say you've got the wrong thing if someone's asking you What is the answer to this and you've got it wrong you can just reverse time and Go back you can't reverse the whole game like obviously. It's a mechanic. So It only does it so often But at the same time max is also having visions of the town being destroyed by a giant tornado Which is kind of impossible in Portland, but as you slowly start to realize you bending time is starting to have an effect on reality itself on top of this on just a slight side note the the music for Life is strange is really well done, too. Admittedly. It's a bit kind of hippie-dippy Indie rock music, but it's actually one of my favorite video game soundtracks Anytime I go on a bike ride in the summer Or if I go hiking I put that on every time I put the whole score the whole soundtrack on every time it is that Good to listen to When you're going on these kind of adventures because the story takes place in a fixed fictitious town in Portland But funny enough I played the game before I actually went to Portland for the first time it was specifically can in beach and that's sort of the inspiration of where the story takes place and Funny enough when I went there and I was like, oh crap. This actually looks like Portland and Don't nod. They're not even from Portland. They're from France or I believe they're in France and They just took reference photos like for a place like they base this game in an area That's on the other side of the world and most of them if ever had never been there But they were able to recreate Portland at least the beach area so well But that's a side note honestly like this game It depends on if you're interested in this sort of aspect I would say you should definitely try it It has a bit of a teen angsty sort of storyline But I just played this game a couple of years ago, and I think that the writing is superb Especially when you factor in before the storm before the storm is the prequel story to Chloe and While most would say play the prequel first I wouldn't because I like how you go in raw with it. It's up to you Admittedly want playing through before the storm was a really cool Backstory into Chloe like it was showing her relationship with Rachel just showing Chloe's relationship with her mother and her stepfather a lot more whereas Max you are Literally in her shoes and you're seeing it from her perspective and you only know that much to go in knowing more By playing the prequel before the first main game. I don't know. I feel that it kind of It might lessen the experience and like I said just you don't have to not play it Just don't play it first and what's weird to say, but just don't I would suggest playing the game first and Yeah, the story works out really well and the ending choice that the final thing that comes to the end of the game There's a major major decision and it's one that I think about a lot If anything it actually kind of it's on the same level of video game choices that come from games like Mass Effect or Knights of the Old Republic this Game has a final decision that is so well Formulated that it's still it hits you and the something else too is that it really resonated with its fan group because I'm a part of the Facebook group for Life is Strange and People love the first game. They love the prequel They have there's so much fan art. There's so much homage. There's so many Omages and just appreciate so much appreciation for the first game And it's characters Life is Strange 2 is a little difference It Certainly is a lot bigger than the first game the first game could fit on a normal 360 disc The prequel was a little bit bigger than that But the second game Life is Strange 2 is so big I think it works out to being like full maybe 30 40 gigs total with all the stories and told that's because they They got a bigger engine They more so they just took more advantage of the Unreal Engine and they had far longer stories and that might be Hindrance to some people it was a legitimate criticism of the first game and my sorry in the second game in my opinion Is that the first the first two chapters are very slow and of five? Number one starts off really good. It starts with a banger, but then it just takes For the story to get going but admittedly once the story does get going It's very very good I think the Depending on how you end it the second story has an ending that is just as powerful as The first one and I think it's more so because it doesn't involve a Time-reality bending thing as much as the first one does because the second game the only Supernatural element I guess you would say is that your brother Is able to you the main character you play? Okay, I remember his name right now. It's been a while, but anyways his younger brother has psychic abilities and That's it. That's the only supernatural element in the entire story The rest of it is just based on kind of current-day politics Current-day affairs and just regular people I think that's one of the parts that I liked about life is strange too a little bit more than the first one The first one overall is a much better game I would say in terms of its narrative and everything but the second game does have Especially if you go with what is considered the good the right ending it brought a goddamn tear to my eye I was I was actually really emotionally hit by the one of the three endings Technically there's four endings, but the main the main good ending. I guess you would call it absolutely wrecked me wrecked me beyond belief Yeah, just a little random little note. I figured that I should have talked about this game a long time ago normally I would I Guess most people would do it like a gameplay like an essay and whatnot But I just I feel that you guys if you haven't played it. You should definitely try it. It is one of My favorite games of all time I could almost say the soundtrack is at least if you were to do those top 10 video game soundtracks 100% it's up there. Like I'm gonna I'm looking at my window right now, and I'm gonna try and go on a bike ride Even though it is negative One was negative three this morning. I'm gonna try and go out on a bike ride and hopefully not die But I'm gonna pop that on I'm gonna pop that music on it's that good I even have a spotify playlist for listening to bike riding and hiking music a lot of the time Just go and look up life is strange soundtrack. Anyways, I just thought that you guys should Little a little bit of tidbit from me. I I would really really suggest it It is a very good game and for those of you who have played it and you understand where I'm coming from Talk about your experiences with the game It's it's really good Medley don't not it's kind of dipped into a few different things. They had a story called tell me why Where I think I got It's only a three-parter, but I got about 20 minutes in and I was already bored And there's another one called dark mirror, which they I haven't played it yet. It's based on It's kind of their own interpretation of Twin Peaks and the X files and apparently it's not very good Which is unfortunate But I feel really when you're going into Twin Peaks territory the only guy who can so far really really well emulated is Sam Lake from the Alan Wake series. I was playing control a little while ago I mean really took a break from it, but it's that game is really good to so far. What's really creepy weird at Atmosphere. Anyways, that's all for me. Hope you guys are doing well. Hope you guys enjoyed this little rant It is making me Maybe if you guys like this, maybe I'll do something else in the future, but I just wanted to try something. I didn't want to Excuse me. I didn't want to get in front of a camera I just kind of wanted to express my feelings because I'm just reading something right now. What is it? It's right Yeah, just Here is yeah Today just so happens when I'm doing this recording right now They're celebrating the birthday of Captain Spirit this Chris character, which that's something else too To give to don't know it is after the first chapter of life of strange 2 they released a demo for something called Captain Spirit and Literally, this is a tiny tidbit story that you don't even have to play. You don't even have to touch it You it's free that you don't have to but if you want to you find out about this kid Who lives next door to where the main characters take place? In the second chapter and what you do in that story kind of affects how he what happens to him in that story?  That's that's heavy So yeah, a small demo that was complete was released completely for free Was able to affect someone who doesn't even like these games. So there you go Anyways guys, that's all for me I hope you enjoyed this video if you did leave a like and if you're interested in more subscribe And if you're interested in me doing something like this maybe in the future, let me know because this was you know Admittedly it's easy to put together, but it's also something to talk about anyways talk to you later


With that said, this passage we're looking at. I chose to call counterfeit faith. You'll see it in as we go through the study but Again, what I'll do is I'll share a few things to remind us of where we've where we've been up to this point and then I'll move into chapter 8 and We'll be looking at a very interesting portion of scripture today. So I'll begin reading here in chapter 8 of the book of Acts that verse 1 I'll read the verse 4 give you your Introduction and then we'll move into our study again. I refer to it as counterfeit faith Luke writes now Saul was consenting to his death At that time a great persecution arose against the church, which was at Jerusalem and They were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria except the apostles and Devout men carried Stephen to his burial and made great lamentation over him as for Saul He made havoc of the church entering every house Draganoff men and women Committing them to prison Therefore those who were scattered went everywhere preaching the word Now in chapter 7 we looked at the death of Stephen who's been referred to as the first Christian martyr We saw that Stephen was one of the first men who was appointed as what we today would refer to as as a Deacon and this is one who had been used mightily by the Lord in chapter 6 of Acts verse 8 It says that Stephen was full of faith and power and that he did great wonders and signs among the people So the people Obviously had taken notice of him and this drew opponents who began to argue and to dispute with him But they couldn't resist they couldn't withstand the wisdom of the spirit by which he spoke That had resulted in them making a false claim against him They they induced men to accuse him of blaspheming God Moses and the temple He was taken before the council and false witnesses delivered the charges And we saw how Stephen gave a very eloquent presentation in defense of the faith and Point by point he refuted the charges and presented Jesus Christ as Messiah The result was that those who were his opponents who were cut to the heart They were enraged and he was taken and he was martyred They cast him out of the city. They stoned him to death Their cloaks would have impeded them from throwing stones and because of this they laid them aside at the feet of a young man whose name was Saul and that was our introduction to the man who had become Paul Now as Stephen died he prayed Lord Jesus receive my spirit He then said Lord do not charge them with this sin and we saw how he peacefully died And so that's where we are now and so we can begin in verse 1 where it simply says now Saul Was consenting to his death Saul was consenting to his death He was in complete agreement to the fact that he believed that this man should die He was consenting to his death This is something that Paul never never forgot And this is something that Paul later refers to I'll show you a few scriptures in a moment But I'll point out to the fact that he spoke of how how the Lord had spoken to him and and had told him that he was to leave Jerusalem and As he was giving his testimony, it's found in Acts 22 verse 20 When the Lord had said for him to leave he responded by saying when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him And so that's something that Saul later Paul never forgot that he gave his consent to the death of this righteous young man You see Saul was in agreement with the council Stephen should die He was so opposed to Jesus that he believed all Christians should die That reminds us of something Jesus said in John 16 verse 2 where he had said they'll put you out of the synagogue In fact the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God So when he came to faith in Jesus, his life was completely transformed and even though he opposed Jesus he was shown tremendous grace and Tremendous mercy. We'll see that again in a moment Well as this is taking place it says Saul was consenting to his death But he goes on to say at that time a great persecution arose against the church Which was at Jerusalem and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria except the Apostles and So until that time as we've seen going through this book the church lived a fairly peaceful and productive life As far as unbelievers were concerned believers were not considered yet to be any form of a threat Christians were doing good for the community and they were tolerated and even respected in Acts 2 47 It says they were praising God and having favor with all the people in Acts 5 13 It says that the people esteemed them highly So from Pentecost at that time the message of the gospel was going out in power opposition was beginning But the church was numerically growing Acts chapter 6 verse 7 says the the word of God continued to spread the number of disciples in Jerusalem grew rapidly And a great number of priests became obedient to the faith But now persecution that is led by religious leaders begins to grow against him They had been comfortable there in the city of Jerusalem. It became necessary for them to leave Now Jesus had commanded them to go into the world and now they're going to do so because the church is being scattered Notice it's being scattered throughout Judea and into Samaria So as that's taking place verse 2 says well the vowed men carried Stephen to his burial and made great lamentation over him Not every single believer left, but a great many did the Apostles remained behind as did certain devout or righteous men Now as for Paul or rather Saul verse 3 He made havoc of the church entering every house and dragging off men and women Committing them to prison So some remained behind and Saul came against them and he did so in fury when it speaks about him Making havoc he came against him with violence He entered their homes. He had them imprisoned Now this is something that he never forgot It's something that when you read your New Testament and he begins to speak concerning his former life the life without Christ He refers to He spoke concerning his zeal in Philippians chapter 3 verse 6 and when he said concerning zeal he said persecuting the church One commentator said that there was an insane ferocity in his violence And that's something he openly confessed in Galatians 1 13 He said to that church you have you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism how severely I Persecuted the church of God and tried he says to destroy it Well, he later came to understand how wrong this was he was even humbled by it And so in 1st Timothy 1 he said in verses 12 and 13 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has given me strength that he considered me trustworthy Appointing me to his service even though I was once a blasphemer and persecutor and a violent man I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief I've heard the testimony of more than one person who was violently opposed to the gospel violently opposed and Yet when they got saved they never forgot How violently opposed they were and they actually became very strongly in favor of and preached the gospel with great with great fervor That's what happened to the Apostle Paul. He said I was shown mercy. I persecuted the church Well, he says in verse 4 therefore those who were scattered went everywhere preaching So Jesus had commanded them to go and now they're pushed out and they're going Wherever they went they preached they announced the good news And so it speaks concerning the the expansion of the church and in verse 5 It speaks of Philip then Philip went down To the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them and the multitudes with one accord He did the thing spoken by Philip hearing and seeing the miracles Which he did for unclean spirits crying with a loud voice came out came out of many who were possessed and many who were paralyzed and lame were healed and there was great joy in That city and so Philip goes down to it says the city It's actually a city of Samaria and notice he preached Christ to them now. This is not the Apostle Philip This is one of those who had been recently selected to be a deacon He is one of the seven who were selected to oversee the ministry to the widows So that gives us insight into this man that we're being Reintroduced to this is a man of good reputation.  He was submitted to authority. He was spiritually mature This is the Philip that we're looking at now Now Luke mentions him in such a way that you get a glimpse of his character Because later in the book of Acts in chapter 21 verses 8 and 9 He writes on the next day we who were were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea and Entered the house of Philip the evangelist who was one of the seven and stayed with him now This man had four virgin daughters who prophesied You might find this interesting, but Philip is the only one in Scripture who's ever referred to as an evangelist This is an office that speaks of a person's gifting to declare the gospel In Ephesians 411 it says that he himself gave some to be apostles prophets Evangelists and pastors and teachers for the Equipment of the Saints for the work of ministry He was one who held the office, but the only one in Scripture referred to as the evangelist And this is a man who was obviously godly because it speaks of the fact that he had Four virgin daughters who had come to faith in the Lord and prophesied in the name of the Lord So he went to notice verse 5 a city of Samaria to preach Christ to them Now Samaria is a region that is about 40 miles north of the city of Jerusalem. And so Philip comes into that area He's proclaiming that Messiah has come You need to remember that that is a an area that that Jesus himself administered in One of the most famous stories in Scripture concerns the woman at the well the well of sicker We usually call it Psyche How that Jesus needed to go through that region and As he did so there was a woman there that he had an appointment with a woman at the well It's a very famous story of how that Jesus went there spoke to her brought her to faith in him And ultimately she declared this faith to other people. And so he'd been there. He administered in Samaria But it's also in Samaria that Jesus's men became enraged at the Samaritans Because they were not necessarily receptive to Jesus Christ on one occasion Jesus was going to Jerusalem and he needed to pass through Samaria So he sent messengers before him the messengers are unnamed but commentators say it more likely was James and John and As they began to enter in as the ones who were preparing for Jesus to enter into the cities and all the villagers became hostile Because they were Jews who were coming through and they were on their way to Jerusalem in Luke chapter 9 verses 54 through 56 It says when his disciples James and John saw this they said Lord Do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them just as Elisha did? Have you ever wanted to do that? I do that almost every day But he turned and he rebuked them and he said you do not know what manner of spirit you are of For the Son of man didn't come to destroy men's lives, but to save them and they went to another village And so these were people these Samaritans That Jesus had ministered to but were not necessarily receptive to him Now Jesus had said you're to take this gospel and you're supposed to preach it throughout the world and so The gospel is now moving out of Jerusalem Into the area of Samaria and the area of Samaria is an area filled with people who reject Jews and are rejected by Jews In John 4 verse 9 it simply says Jews have no dealings with Samaritans And yet Philip is taking the gospel into this unnamed city of Samaria and as a godly man He's taken the gospel to the least loved people in the area He's taking the gospel to the people that are rejected by other people as I was Preparing my notes. I couldn't help but remember How about my own pastor did the same a similar thing When Pastor Chuck began to take the gospel to the hippies and he paid a price for it But you take the gospel to those who are in need right and that's what Philip is doing God hasn't rejected the Samaritans God has a plan for their salvation also and notice how it says in verse 5 he began preaching or proclaiming Jesus to them Now the Samaritans were like the Jews. They had an anticipation that Messiah was to come It says in John 4 25 the woman at the well said to Jesus I know that Messiah is coming who is called Christ and when he comes he will tell us all things So they had an anticipation for Messiah and so Philip is taking this message to tell him Messiah has come Well as he's doing so it says in verse 6 the multitudes with one accord He did the things spoken by Philip Hearing and seeing the miracles which he did for unclean spirits crying with a loud voice came out of many who were possessed and Many who were paralyzed and lame were healed. There was great joy in that city Now it may be that they already had an awareness of Jesus in a sense because of what that Samaritan woman had done She had brought men to see Jesus and and many of the men that she had brought to see Jesus had believed in him Many others came to faith in him as they were listening to him speak in John 4 42 It's as they said to the woman we no longer believe just because of what you said Now we've heard for ourselves and we know that this man really is the savior of the world And so the gospel is now going out in more full force more openness through Philip And he's preaching and as he does so notice verse 7 Unclean spirits were crying out loud voice and they were coming out and there were many who were healed And so as Philip is preaching healings and miracles and and even the casting out of demons is taking place and The Lord is confirming his word by the signs that accompany it Versailles says it was great joy in that city Salvation and deliverance is abounding. You see when the Lord is moving amongst people joy will be the fruit It says in Isaiah 12 verse 3 with joy. You will draw water out of the wells of salvation I don't know what you were like when when you got got right with God I don't know what you were like when Jesus saved you But I can tell you my own personal experience that there was an overwhelming sense of joy That the Lord had saved me that my sins had been forgiven that I'd been washed clean from all of that unrighteousness And and what at one time was a heart of depression and sorrow and grief constantly and rejection and loneliness was transformed And now I knew the God of the universe and and I had a relationship with Lord and and there was a joy in my heart It's a deep settled joy. It wasn't a joy that made me giggle all the time. I was still sober minded But it was a joy that was so deep and so real and has never left the joy of the Lord is my strength and the salvation of the Lord is An incredible experience and that's what happens when people get saved when you realize that your sins have been forgiven That you've been washed clean that you're brand new You have a joy and that's what's taking place and they're seeing these works and these miracles and they're listening to the gospel And something incredible is taking place. Well as this happens verse 9 but There was a certain man called Simon Who previously practiced sorcery in the city and Astonished the people of Samaria claiming that he was someone great To whom they all gave heed from the least to the greatest saying this man is the great power So let's look at this man here. We're gonna look at a little bit at counterfeit at the counterfeit faith Simon is a Jewish name But it was a name that was also used by Samaritans So it's unknown whether or not He is Samaritan Jewish. It's not really clear But one thing we do know Simon is a deceiver and Simon had the people completely in awe of him The scripture tells us that this is one who practiced sorcery the word sorcery MAGOS the word sorcery is where you get the word magic It was used to speak of astrologers and soothsayers Necromancers and necromancer is someone who purports to speak to the dead and fortune tellers Some of these quote-unquote sorcerers use magic spells in an attempt to perform miracles And so he was a deceiver. He was someone who practiced sorcery He practiced the magical arts is what it's saying and verse 10 tells us that All gave heed from the least to the greatest Saying this man is the great power of God So that gives you a little more insight that you might not see at first When it says this man is the great power of God. That's actually a claim to deity Some thought that he was the Messiah In Mark 1462 Jesus said you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the power and Coming with clouds of heaven So the power was another way of speaking of Messiah And so he was thought of by some to be the great power the great power of God Which is another way of speaking of him as the Messiah And so that's the kind of reputation he has it says in verse 11 They heeded him because he had astonished them with his sorceries for a long time They listened carefully to him because He had done so many things that that appeared to be super natural That they came to believe that he truly was some great one They liked the The magic that he seemed to perform There's a debate as to whether or not he actually was able to perform works or not But if there were miracles or apparent miracles Those miracles would have been satanic in origin How do we know that we know that because Satan can perform counterfeit miracles in Matthew 24 verse 24 Jesus said false Christ and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders So as to mislead if possible even the elect in Second Thessalonians chapter 2 verse 9 the coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie So there are such things as satanic miracles or counterfeit miracles and so if he is actually performing miracles These are counterfeits that are drawing people to call him the Messiah But as this is taking place and all verse 12 says when they believe Philip as he preached the things Concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ both the men and women were baptized And so what's taking place is they're believing the message They're believing Philip as he's preaching those things. They're beginning to trust in Christ And as these people are beginning to follow after Philip in them not necessarily Philip himself But the message and the one he's he's proclaiming what happens is Simon's following begins to dwindle He had a great group of people who would follow after him But now that crowd is beginning to grow smaller and so people are trusting in the Lord as that crowd is beginning to shrink Now Simon amazed them, but his works were no match for the Spirit of God You see he may have been able to provide some apparent miracles, but the gospel provided forgiveness and The miracles were real Just because he was performing some amazing thing at least they thought he was Didn't mean their sins were being forgiven You can believe in something that's miraculous or at least appearing that way something supernatural But that doesn't mean your sins are being forgiven. You need to have the gospel proclaimed You need to hear that Jesus died on a cross for you You need to know that he was buried because he died you need to know he was resurrected So the the signs and wonders that are performed were giving opportunity for the proclamation Simon didn't have anything to say Simon had become the focus of attention But when when Philip was preaching he had performed these miracles that drew their attention. They listened to his word They were forgiven of their sins. They followed Christ and the sorcerer is watching this take place And as he's watching his people dwindle and this crowd growing he becomes interested in what's being said Notice what it says in verse 13 Simon himself also believed and when he was baptized He continued with Philip and was amazed seeing the miracles and signs which were done Simon was impressed by the signs He even saw evidence of the power of God and he was convinced that that Philip had a source of power That was great and he wanted that source of power. He wasn't a sincere convert to Christ He saw the works and was amazed He believed the miracles, but he didn't receive the message Again belief in miracles alone never can save you such belief only opens you up to deception So Simon recognized great power. He witnessed the signs that were performed and that resulted in a counterfeit conversion He was hungry for power But not the power salvation He was hungry to be able to perform these works and to do these things but he didn't He didn't repent. He didn't ask for his sins to be forgiven and cleansed This is actually Satan's attempt to sow a tear in God's wheat field. We've already seen how that earlier Ananias and Sapphira Had presented themselves as believers when in fact they weren't Well, here we have it again we have someone named Simon Who is even has even gone so far as to receive water baptism? So water baptism once again we shared this last week when we had our water baptism Water baptism doesn't save you. We know that It's not the washing of the the flesh with water But it's the sprinkling of the blood of Christ on our conscience that purifies us and gives us new life People get water baptized But that doesn't mean that they're being saved just a couple days ago I Went Marie I John and and and live went to had to go to LA because when when we went to New Mexico a couple weeks ago I I Left my iPads at the airport and so they had it in the Lawson found and so we went and went and picked up my two of my iPads and all and and as we were there At the airport in the spirit spoke to my heart and said let's go to Philips and some of you know where Philips is Philip says the best sandwich is in LA. I think that's my opinion and if you differ you're wrong. You can leave the church now Philips is great and So we went there and as we were driving home. You have to go by Alvera Street and As you go by Alvera Street a lot of you know exactly what I'm talking about where I'm speaking about Everyone of us know Alvera Street. Well, there's a little church there the Plaza Church. I Was baptized there? I went by there. They have a plaque David Rosales. No, they don't I was telling them though. I said, you know I was four months old and my mom at the age of 20 took me there and found the priest And I was baptized in the Plaza Church and so I think every Mexican kid in California was baptized at the Plaza Church And so I told John and and Ray and all and live and I said I was baptized there I have the certificate at home that that reminds me of that that baptism didn't save me all that did is it gave me a Washed my hair. I was four months old. Why because it isn't water baptism that saves you It's a clean conscience because of the blood of Jesus Christ And see what happened with Simon is he heard and he saw certain things that he agreed with He saw the baptism and he submitted to it, but he wasn't converted He didn't come to faith in Christ. There was something else that was motivating him He didn't have a saving faith if he had any kind at all. It's what people would call an intellectual You have an intellectual faith and you have a saving faith We used to say you have a head faith and you have a heart faith You can have a head faith Because again using my own life as an example I I went through the different different kinds of sacraments including my first communion and and sacrament of penance and all of that and I Was able to recite certain creeds and certain formulas and in certain prayers You had to do that in order to be able to be Getting get your first communion and all and your confirmation which I did I Had that kind of intellectual knowledge I was able at the age of 12 and 13 to to share some of the rudiments of the gospel I knew in other words that there was a God. I knew that there was a trinity I knew that there was there was a Messiah. I knew the Messiah's name was Jesus I knew that Jesus was born on a day. We celebrated calling it Christmas I I knew that there was one called the Holy Spirit I knew through comfort confirmation that there was a in that there was a Confirming of my quote-unquote faith and Christ. I knew those things But I wasn't a saved person. It's easy to know things, but not know him And Simon heard things agreed with things even went through a ritual, but Simon was not saved There was something else motivating Simon and this is what's taking place here notice how it says in verse verse 13 that he continued He can he continued with Philip. Now, why would he do that? Why would he submit to baptism and? Continue following after Philip. Why would he continue with Philip being amazed at the miracles and signs that he saw? Well one it would be to keep in contact with the people that he had influenced in the past and impressed and A second thing would be to learn how to perform signs and and miracles like like like he was gonna have a magician's trick Taught to him and then third to try and figure out where this magical power came from and so he's continuing He needs observing is what he's doing well in verse 14 when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria Had received the word of God They sent Peter and John to them who when they had come down prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit Whereas yet he had fallen upon none of them They had only been baptized in the name of Jesus and then they laid hands on them and they received this the Holy Spirit So Peter and John according to verse 14 these apostles there at Jerusalem they come down You see word had come to Jerusalem that Samaritans were receiving the gospel and notice how The the word of God the phrase the word of God is being emphasized and so Peter and John Came to see what was happening amongst them and then in verse 15 when they came down they prayed that they might receive the Spirit Now what they're doing here is they're praying That they'll experience What what I would refer to as their own Pentecost if you will You see the prayer someone said pointed to the gift of the power of the Spirit as had been given on Pentecost It assumed that such gifts were distinct from the new birth Verse 16 says speaking of the Spirit for as yet he had fallen upon none of them He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Let me develop this with you for a moment Jesus earlier in his earthly ministry had said that the Spirit he said in John 16 17 will be with you and Will be in you So they've experienced the with and the in But in Acts chapter 1 verse 8 He had said the Spirit will come upon you Now this term that the Spirit will come upon you is used Other times in in Acts and acts 1044 Well Peter was speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word Again, Jesus had said the Spirit would come upon them So in faith they had received the word and in faith they had received water baptism They had placed faith in other words in Jesus Christ and they've been brought into his church in First Corinthians 12 13 Paul later says by one spirit We were all baptized into one body whether Jews or Greeks whether slaves or free and have all been made to drink into one spirit So as a result they revealed sincere faith by water baptism They openly were confessing that they were dead buried and resurrected in Jesus Christ We see that again in the book of Romans chapter 6 These were people who were sincere in their faith. They were real believers But they still need the power of God Now remember on Pentecost 120 were baptized by the Holy Spirit and gifts were exercised We saw how they spoke in tongues and later we saw how Peter preached with the Spirit's boldness So the Samaritans are saved But they are not yet baptized with the Holy Spirit So the Apostles came to lay hands on them to validate the reality of their faith And this is part of what Jesus had said in Acts 1 When he said at verse 8 you shall receive power after that the Holy Spirit has come upon you and You shall be witnesses to me in Jerusalem Judea and Judea rather and Samaria and so this is the expansion of that work Jerusalem Judea is the southern portion of Israel going north into Samaria and so They lay hands on them in verse 17 and they received the Holy Spirit Now the laying on of hands we saw that earlier in chapter 6 when they laid hands on the deacons commissioning them This represents they them being a channel that God was using Paul later will speak of this kind of thing in 2nd Timothy 1 verse 6 where he said therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the lane on of my hands And so they've come to lay hands on them that they would be baptized in the Holy Spirit verse 18 when Simon saw that through the lane on the of the Apostles hands the Holy Spirit was given He offered them money saying Give me this power also that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Spirit So he sees something take place What is it because he sees something? No commentator is able to say exactly what it is But he did see something because it makes it very clear Simon saw that the lane through the lane on of the Apostles hands The Holy Spirit was given what did he see I lean in the direction that they spoke in tongues and prophesied He saw something There was some external evidence that occurred and he wants it Now in his way of thinking these men had great power and he greatly desired that power Now he would have made deals with other magicians to learn their secrets and for him this seemed to be a great magical power To wield he says in verse 19 give me this power also that anyone on whom I lay hands May receive the Holy Spirit it made sense to him to get this secret power to buy it if necessary Here's something for you, and I want it to be practical There's something to remember Nothing God has is for sale God's gifts Cannot be bought People still try to receive this power To acts of the flesh sometimes and I've seen it. I've been there. They may be crying They may be begging they make promises and they're trying to somehow Obtain this power through their own efforts and desire But the Holy Spirit is poured out freely upon those who in genuine faith ask In Luke 11 13 it says if you then though you're evil know how to give good gifts to your children How much more will your father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him? But he says in verse 19 give me this power Also that anyone on whom I lay hands on may receive it He didn't ask them to notice this he did not ask them To lay hands on others that they might be blessed he didn't say I want to I want this so I can bless others He tried to buy a position so that he could do this for himself That is called Simon II. That's a word that the church still uses It's trying to purchase a grace gift of God for your own use trying to buy a position He wanted to be equal to the apostles and Greater than Philip Now remember that Because Philip came Philip preached Philip performed works people believe the gospel Philip was preaching But the baptism of the Spirit didn't come until Peter and John came He didn't go to Philip and asked he went to Peter and John Why because he wanted to be greater than Philip? Why because Philip had taken his converts had taken his people and so he's looking at this as a way To get some more authority or to even have greater authority if I can buy this magic trick from these two fellas I can retain or I can Get once again my position. That's what's going on in this evil man's heart He wants to be equal to the apostles and greater than Philip Well when this takes place verse 20 Peter said to him your money perish with you because you Thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money you you have neither part nor portion in this matter For your heart is not right in the sight of God now This is a little shocking in a way, but I'll tell you what it says what it's actually saying here When he speaks and every commentator points to the same thing And I'll read it to you again your money perish with you when Peter says that There is a little literal translation Little literally Peter is saying to hell with you and your money That sounds like my mom. I mean that that is That is a very well you can imagine That is he's not he's not people say well he was a fisherman all fishermen swear.  I have many times it breaks my heart discuss me, but it's true It's the same spirit It's the same wrong attitude freely you have received freely you give the Lord is the one who does the work You can't buy his office. We know that but a lot of people don't seem to understand that Don't be sending your money to these charlatans. Don't be sending your money to these liars. Oh, like oh, how much time do we have?  We pray for healing Yes, but it's God who heals and no man should sell God's grace It's wrong It's wrong. I've heard him say I've heard him say if you don't send money our ministry goes down and I say go down Go down Because we don't need that the kingdom of God. I'm telling you this is one of the things I get really worked up I was afraid about it, but I do I hate that because it's lying in the name of Jesus Christ And it's taken advantage of broken-hearted hurt people. We should love them show them compassion and care for them and not take from It bothers me that much I'm sorry It breaks my heart it breaks my heart so many have been turned from the gospel Because of these lawyers and that's what's taking place your money perish with you you sought to buy a gift of God Don't be sending your money to these charlatans Don't be sending your money to these people who say that unless you send them money You will not be healed our God is able to heal any place any time because he is our God and he doesn't require my money He owns the cattle in a thousand hills. Why does he need my dollar? He doesn't need it. Anyway, I'll go back That's that's one of I have some areas that I get very passionate about that's one of them He's saying you are poisoned by bitterness and you are bound by iniquity You are a slave to sinful desire you want to be some great person But in fact you are in bondage in Proverbs 5 22 his own iniquities and trapped the wicked man He has caught in the cords of his sin Well when he says that to him Verse 24 Simon answered and said pray to the Lord for me that none of the things which you have spoken may come upon me So when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord they returned to Jerusalem preaching the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans Now doesn't that sound sincere? But he didn't repent He didn't want evil to come upon him he didn't ask to be forgiven He asked Peter to pray But he never prayed a prayer of repentance for himself This man was not a genuine convert This was not a true follower of Christ He wanted to buy The gift of God because he wanted to use it To make himself into a great one every genuine Christian and every genuine Pastor I would even emphasize the pastor the leader Should be asking God for humility To make them a broken and humble person So that In spite of themselves God may be seen There are some who want to be seen themselves There are others who are saying God make me invisible so that you are seen Simon wasn't the one who said make me invisible Simon was the one who wanted to be seen He wanted to be some great one and even when he was told to repent He never repented. He just said pray for me that this doesn't happen to me. He didn't say I Was wrong God forgive me and so As we close we remember that God's power is available to us today So may we seek God for his spirit's power That we might be used for his glory