Going live, live on the Metal Voice today. Wow, it's just quickly jumping on. I agree, this topic with Steph Angelou, of course, CTV journalist, reporter, of course, part of the Metal Voice family as well. And I agree, this topic, let me just fix this here. Okay, perfect. I know everybody's jumping on. This is a pretty hot topic in the press today, actually all week, I should say. This is, in recent news, three, four days ago, Eden High School Principal, this is a Canadian high school in St. Catherine's, close to the Niagara region in Ontario. The High School Principal, Sharon Burns, needs to be transferred immediately, says the parents, the concerned parents. The parents, just to, let me just get this there. You know, let me start over here. Let me start over here. I'm just confusing myself. There's just so much information. A high school principal in Canada is being asked to leave her job or being dismissed or transferred to another school because she posted a picture of Eddie and the symbol 666 on the school's Instagram, the school's social media. That's clear now, right? This happened in the past few days. A petition by a lady named Debbie Lynn has been put up signed by about 500 parents or people concerned to dismiss her or to transfer her to another school. And then a counter petition was put up by the students and something like 10,000 or 15,000 signatures saying, no, no, our principal, she's open to diversity. She's a good person. She always looks out for the students. And this is what we're talking about today. Should this Iron Maiden fan principal be dismissed or transferred based on her freedom of expression or freedom of religion to a degree by posting something very controversial or satanic images on the school's social media. And with me, of course, Stefan, as you do, see TV news and of course the metal voice. Stefan, right off the bat, what did you first think when you saw this report? I laughed and I felt like I was transported back to 1984 because I remember when Iron Maiden were doing their number of the beast tour and back then in the early eighties, the Christian fundamentalists still had a fair amount of power in the US. Actually, probably less so than now, I would say, but it was common. Everywhere Maiden went in 1982, anywhere any rock band went in the early eighties, you had groups of Christian fundamentalist protesters outside. I mean, as late as 1990, I remember taking my wife to Robert Plant in Portland, Maine, Maine of all places. And in the end, there was a Bible-thumping guy yelling and shouting, don't go in. It's Robert Land of Devil's voice and blah, blah, blah. And Elvis, it was the same thing in the fifties, Beatles. Remember the burning disc, the burning, come and burn your Beatles records? You remember the Rolling Stones with sympathy for the devil, the outrage? It never stopped. And I thought, so when I saw this news this week, I thought, huh, stupidity is not gone yet. And you may know that I'm a complete atheist. I do not, I reject the very existence of God in the Bible. So I always chuckle whenever I see parents saying, we don't have a problem with her musical taste. We have a problem with the word 666, which we all know is Satan worshiping. He's like, no, it's not.  It is a public school. Okay, it's a public school. All right, let me show the pictures, okay? I want everybody, and again, I should set this up nicely so people understand exactly what's going on. So this, I'm showing it on my screen now and you, I don't know if you could see it or not, but it shows a picture of her dashboard, the principles. It has in her hand written, it has Eddie 666, a heart. And it says minus. I'm not sure what the minus is, but regardless it shows Eddie 666 and minus. Now, other pictures that I found on the Instagram site was a teacher. So you got to also look at what this Instagram site is used for. So there was a teacher and what it does, what I noticed was on the Instagram account, the goal was for the school's Instagram account was to talk about announcements, you know, what's going on at the school as well as behind the mask of each teacher, what they love to do or who they are as a people that when they're not teaching, there was one picture of a teacher and it says teach peace. And it shows the Christian sign, the Jewish sort of symbol, the star David and the Muslim sign. So that is acceptable. Nobody sort of harped on that.  Now, but this, which was the teacher, you know, doing the devil horns with iron maiden and that's the principle, they're on the right and that's Shannon Burns, Sharon Burns, sorry. So my take from there, my take from there is that obviously the Instagram account is controlled by the principle.  And so one of them probably said, well, we can't go after coexist, we can't go after Jews, we can't go after Muslims, but metal seems like a fair play. And the amount of hypocrisy involved in saying, we don't have a problem with her musical taste, we have a problem with her use of the Instagram account to post something like this, shows the huge hypocrisy. As far as I'm concerned, because normally they would be against, because I checked her Instagram account and normally these parents should be against half of what she's posting. So the hypocrisy of religious activists, in my opinion, stinks throughout this story altogether. All right, so, but let me ask you some questions here. You know, I'm a parent. Yeah. And there are a group of parents who want their children. And you know what, I didn't want to make this a panel show where everybody's just bashing the parents that are petitioning here, right? I want to be, I want to be fair here. And I want you to be fair too. And I know you are. I'm a parent in a public school, a public institution. I'm on the board, the parental boards of that school. This is paid for by the taxpayers. Do I not have the right to put my kid in a safe environment that I consider safe and not expose them something that might be scary, that might incite them to, you know, do things they shouldn't be doing? I mean, and that's their perspective and that's their right to, right? The parents have just as much of a right to freedom of expression, to express themself or petition this teacher, then the teacher has also to express herself. Where's that line of freedom of expression? Does the teacher, the principal have the right in freedom of expression? And do the parents have that same right? That right is expressed in the ballot box at the school board election. Citizens elect their school board representatives and that school board hires and fires administrators at will, okay? That's how it works.  The right of a teacher to speak up. Now, we live and it's generally accepted that, you know, the line between what's controversial and what's not in 2021 is complex. And you and I have had this debate on a personal level a few times. There's a lot of stuff you believe in that I don't and vice versa. And that's okay, except that people have, there is freedom of expression. The school board is the ultimate judge of what it tolerates from its employees. The company I work for, Bell Media, you know, because they want their journalists to come across as fair and objective, they have very stringent rules. But school principles, you would have to get from the school board, what is the social media policy for its employees? And in the case where an employee controls an Instagram or social media account on behalf of the school, it's up to the school board to decide what the limits are. And I don't know if that those policies are dictated by who. So yes, there's freedom of expression, but an employer also has the right to say, this is inappropriate for our line of business, so you can or cannot. So it's not as simple as saying she has the right to express herself. That is obvious.  We should add to our American friends that in Canada we have a Charter of Rights and it protects freedom of expression and freedom of religion with limits, of course with limits, right?  So we do have a Charter of Rights that protect freedom of expression. And what you're saying is there's also policies within the school board, right, that outline what can be used on social media and what cannot be used on social media. In this case, and that's what I looked at. I looked at what have they been using this Instagram for in the school? It seems like for gay rights or you know, gay pride we'll call it, they used it for expressing different religions and I think this fits in. If you can have all those other views, then this fits into what the Instagram account was for or being used as, there's precedent, that's what I'm saying. Absolutely. In fact, I looked at her Instagram account and a lot of it is about student achievements, you know, sports, tournaments, high school projects, high school outings and it's all about achievements. I have this in my mind, based on what I saw, you have a school principal who is extremely proud of her student body, of her student body and who is very committed to being close to her students and reflect their aspirations, you know. Was this teacher just faking her love of Iron Maiden to sound cool to her certain demographics? Maybe, you know, we turn her school. Personally, based on her age, demographics, it's probably fair to say that she really is an Iron Maiden student. Let's take a look at the other side now. Okay, there's freedom of expression means you can sort of express yourself, you know. Yeah. Publicly. Then there's freedom of religion. Let's say she's a Satanist. Yeah. You know, and it's a registered, you know, religion in the US and there's chapters around the world. Can she be discriminated against her religion? You know, and it might be her religion, right?  Yeah. I mean, if you could show one side, can you not show the other? Yeah. Well, if I'm not a lawyer, but based on cases I've covered in the past as part of my job, you know, the parents would have to make a case that the beliefs of the teacher are detrimental to the education of the children and the wellbeing of the school, you know. So that right away is a very long shot. And that is also limitations to freedom of religion. You know, there's always limitations. As long as you're not infringing the security of others or hating others or inciting others, then there are limitations, but those are on the extreme side. This looks like she's a fan.  You know, this looks like it's a fan. So the parents. It sounds to me like I went through the petition. I even signed it myself. Look at that. Look at you, Mr. Democracy. Mr. Freedom. Here we go. Please note this petition, this is the parents one, okay? This is not about Sharon Byrne's love for Iron Maiden, but a lot of the headlines kind of. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, if you go on the petition and you read the comments of all the ones who signed, most of them don't even have kids who attend that school. Most of them are not even from St. Catherine's.  I mean, I couldn't write something completely outrageous and collect a million signature within a few weeks, I'm sure.  I mean, the school got, you know, the parents got 500 signatures. If you remove the ones signed by Maiden fans who just wanted to insult them, you're down to about half that number. And then the students who started their own, they got like 15,000 signatures. Well, it's a lot easier for kids to pass share information, right? They're like on Twitter, Instagram, boom, boom, boom. They're sharing everything. Parents a little more harder. Yeah, yeah. Now, I, this morning, I read the article in the local press, not the metal press, not on our show, but in the standard, which is St. Catherine's newspaper, I Heart Radio, which followed the case. And the school board is telling the parents who look we're not getting into this, settle this among yourselves.  No, we're not gonna get involved. So I think that right now at this hour, as we speak, you have a bunch of parents who are saying, gee, talk about a backlash and a Streisand effect. And you probably have a school principal who is not interested into getting in a fight with those parents, who's not interested in drawing more attention that she's already had. If you look at her Instagram account, she removed all reference to this and she resumed posting stuff about school activities. I think this has gone way, way, way. I think everybody people involved in St. Catherine's are right now are saying, how do we get that far? But there's a lesson learned. You can start a petition. Anyone can start a petition. And the sillier your petition is, the more attention you'll get. I can start a petition right now banning each and every slayer t-shirt in the world. And I would probably get, you know, 2,000 yes from US fundamentalists and a bazillion death threats from metalheads. And then just based on that, I would make headlines and lash and lash and lash. So change.org petitions and all of that.  Now, if you had 500 parents writing letters, individual letters, not copied and photocopied, but individual letters from actual parents from that actual school, then maybe the school board would say, shit, we got a problem on our hands. This change.org, please. All right, but, you know, but it's concerned parents. And I'm just gonna go on the parent side a bit. Just, you know, they're concerned. They might not be, understand what Aaron made it is, right? Like my parents didn't understand, right? I wanna address some questions here. Some people think this is in the US. This is in Canada, okay? But it's the same principle, our constitution and our charter of rights. There's freedom of expression, there's freedom of religion there. But the issue here is, can a principal post on the school's social media? In other words, let's put it another way for people to understand. You work at a job, at a corporation. Can you go on the corporation's Instagram account or social media and post what you feel like? That's not related to your job. Okay, I'll answer that one. It depends on what the employer says. If the employer says you're in charge of the local social media account, here's the guidelines of what you can and cannot post. Then it's clear. If there are no guidelines, the school board can turn around says, hey, what you posted was inappropriate. Of course, unless it's sexual, nature really, really poor taste. But it all depends. Where I work, we have a very strict social media policy where other people work, actually no. So the worst that could happen out of this little scuffle is that there's gonna be at the next school board meeting, there's gonna be a motion to set up a committee to determine who should and what is acceptable on social media from institutions. So it's not, she has the right, she doesn't have the right. Her right to post what she wants in a social account of the school is determined by the school board. And if there's no policy written, then the board would have no rounds, other than clarify policies for the future.  That's another point too. Oh yeah, the union will, but even if the parents get to that point where they sort of push the school board pushed them into a corner and said you gotta get rid of this person, right? There are still the union to combat, especially for teachers in Canada. I can't speak for the US because some of them aren't, right? Yeah, absolutely. Principles and teachers are generally well protected with unions. Yeah, yeah. And look at these headlines, okay? These are the headlines I saw and they're kind of misleading. I think that's why people got more mad. And one headline was parents asked to boot principle over Iron Maiden fandom. I don't think that's really exactly what's going on. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Wait a second. Whenever I see parents saying do, do, do, do, do, do, you misread us, it's not about the fact she likes Iron Maiden, it's about her handmade 666 sign.   Christian fundamentalists do not like associate, they generally associate heavy metal with satanic imagery, you know? And if the teacher had said that her favorite artist was Justin Bieber and you know, they wouldn't have said anything. It's because she's a metalhead. And then they realized that most of the parents at that school are probably within our age group. So they probably, a lot of them probably do love metal and then they puts them in a situation that says, oh shit, maybe we messed with the wrong demographics here. We're in 1980. You know what, metal is cool again because people are mad at metal. You know, like that's when metal is cool, right? When people are doing metal. So you know what? We win. That's what I said, the backlash, the backlash. It's what we love, because we're back. You know, that's part of the rebellion, right? This is what the petition said. And I want everybody to be clear here. I understand this. Petition one against Sharon Burns. This petition is not about Sharon Burns' love for Iron Maiden. At no point has it ever been. This petition is about a principal of a school openly displaying her own handmade sign with 666 clearly displayed on it, which she knows full well that that is a satanic symbol. Means to the vast majority of families in her school and she put it on a professional public social media account. Not a private one, which she very easily could have done. If she had not posted a picture of her own handmade 666 sign, this petition would not exist. Nobody cares what band she likes and this is not about her choice and what she listens to. That would be petty and nonsensical. This is only about openly choosing to display satanic symbols on a professional profile page. As all communities in schools are supposed to be about kindness, equity and inclusion, this displaying of satanic symbols is mocking and isolated large segments of that community she works in and clearly is not upholding those values. That's just the short form. What do you say about that? I will tell you what I say about this, says it's not respectful of the values. Well, who are these people to pretend they're the guardians of the values of their community? I will never accept personally any religious figure telling me that they're the guardian of values. That's one thing. So it's extremely self-serving on the part of a handful of parents to say we are the guardians of values because we're Christians. I think that they're essentially trying to regain control of a school that was once Catholic. That's a fact nowadays. They're not Catholic anymore. It's a public school. That's a very good point. That's a very good point. So just to your point there, I'm gonna add that Eden High School has a rich history in the Niagara community. What started off as a private Christian college in Niagara on the lake in 1945 has grown into a public school at a former Lakeport secondary school site in St. Catharine's current enrollment at 1,000. And the principal's message on the website is equity inclusion education. So what are the Christians complaining about? That's exactly what it is. Now, when I went to the Instagram account, if I did not see other teachers on there sort of giving their profile of what they like to do in their past time, if that wasn't there, then I could understand the parent's point. Like here's this anomaly post of Iron Maiden in 666 and the Devil horns, but that's not the case on this Instagram account. The precedent is, and I'll repeat the backstory of all the teachers and the people who work there. So it fits in with what she has been doing over the past years working there. Hope that makes sense. I agree completely.  And when all of us were encouraged to get social media accounts, they said, you know, don't hesitate to express your personality as long as you don't jeopardize the news. And they thought, oh, Stefan, metalhead. Like who knew?  And they liked that. And they think it's pretty cool, you know? But others, maybe not.  I get that. It's okay, but I don't care. And I think if I was this teacher, what she did was right.  I don't want bad blood. I don't want bad feelings. She removed the photo. She's obviously- In good faith, in good faith, yeah. She's obviously ignoring all the attention, not returning interview requests and stuff like that because she wants to keep the peace. She knows she's dealing with a very small minority of parents. I think we can all agree on that.    Yep. You know, today, kids were boiling bat's wings and you know, where do you draw the line, right? Just because Iron Maiden is near and dear to us we're sort of, you know, sort of defending them in a sense, but let's say it was something else. Let's say it was really, you know, let's do a class in, you know, a seance. Let's do the Ouija board. Let's dab into the supernatural. Is that, don't the parents have a right to, to express themselves and you know, not be ridiculed? You know, just like the principal doesn't have, you know, shouldn't be ridiculed as well, right? You may have a point on this, but she was not teaching the merits of Iron Maiden and witchcraft and the devil. It's not what she was doing, you know. Had she done that, well, maybe somebody at the school board would say, where does that fit in, in the curriculum that you're given at the beginning of the year. And if it's part of your, of an experiment, where are the boundaries? Then yeah, I would probably say, yeah, parents have a point. But you know, when Harry Potter became a big thing in the nineties, no, no, no, see what I'm getting at here. When Harry Potter became a big thing in the nineties, I remember very clearly Christian fundamentalists across America, sorry, across the United States. Who were complaining about the fact that kids were reading about sorcerers and witchcraft, while the Bible is, cannot be taught in school.  Look, parents, in my opinion, if they want an education that reflects their Christian values and nothing else but their Christian values, send their kids to a Christian school, not a public school. Yeah, well, let's dab into 666 now. All right, it's been used, oh boy, since, you know, I don't know, the year 300, right?   Is there any merit to revelation? I think it was chapter 13, verse 18, the book of revelations. Let us count or reckon or vote the number of the beast. Some say it's even 616. I mean, we could have got the numbers wrong, 666, because the oldest manuscript, you know, says actually 616. So they're saying like, what? Because the history behind 666 is numerology. It's basically what they've kind of discovered over the years is it wasn't necessarily this tattoo of 666, a sort of beast number, it was actually the numerology of someone's name. So that was Nero, Caesar Nero at the time, and that's what, if you take the Hebrew writings and you just, you know, do the math, it comes out to 666. Well, that for me is further evidence that the Bible is bullshit. It's a nice history book. It's a great mythical history book of a great people, of the great people of Israel, the Hebrews. But as a testament of a set of beliefs are rejected.  It's just somebody who- And just to tell everybody out there, there are also some Christian chapters that people call it or different groups that don't even accept the book of revelations. They accept it all, the rest of the stuff, the New Testament, but they don't even accept the book of revelations as sort of part of their Christian teaching. So the reality is 666 evil. What does everybody think out there? Is 666 a sign of evil? Or is it just sort of a number?  I mean, I'm a believer that 6668 is a neighbor of the beast and it's just a good and cheaper. That's the old joke, right? So I think that to set a belief into a number that has no base in the scriptures or any of their further interpretation, but it's just based on somebody's obsession at some point in history. But you know what, I'm gonna take the Christian side here because I know you're taking the atheist side and it's near and dear Christianity and even though if you don't believe in the sort of the truth about it, you could believe in the spirituality of it all or the philosophy of it all and the teachings of it all. So Christianity is a good thing in my opinion and I could see that some parents are concerned that it might look back in 1980 something, there was a Geraldo. You remember Geraldo, he did a whole show on the Satanism, right? And the cult of Satanism and kids sort of following Satanism and they did blame heavy metal back then but it was kind of ridiculous. But the point was that sometimes that when you have vulnerable children in society, they cling on to these kinds of things and it leads them down this dark path and parents, they wanna protect their children. So there is some legitimacy to say that, parents do also have a right to be heard. You can't just let the school run wild and tell them or preach to them whatever they want because the parents do have rights. I totally agree with this and they exercise that right at the ballot box. But you cannot unilaterally decide that a handmade 666 sign is proof of devil worshiping and that therefore the person needs to be removed. They have no right to determine the value of their belief in relation to what the standard should be for everybody else. This is where I have a serious problem with. You know, what's next?  Hell no, you know, pack a different lunch box if that's what you want. And for metal, for me, it is the same thing. For musical taste, it's the same thing. The problem with these parents, they can believe what they want but in their set of belief, they've come across a number that offends them. And because that number offends them, the teacher is guilty of should be removed. No, no, you know, what's next? A bunch of flat earthers will demand that the geography professor gets moved because they're teaching that the planet is round. No. Yeah, I agree with you. You know, some great points. I mean, we talked about freedom of religion, freedom of expression, and you can't really dismiss somebody based on their, as long as they're not inciting any violence or they're not hurting anyone, that is the bottom line. Has anybody been hurt here? Has anybody, you know, turned evil here? Has anybody gone out on some sort of rampage of hurting others? No, so I guess you have to look at the big picture. The precedent is there. So this is an open and shut case for you and me, Stefan. Yeah, but I will tell you something, Jimmy. As you know, I've always lived in Quebec all my life. This is a province that embraced Catholicism, Christianity, for all of its existence, and everything was thrown out the windows, maybe in the bathwater at the same time in the 1960s. And Quebec has grown into a religion-free society. Crossing the rest of Canada, I discovered that it is not the case in other provinces, including Ontario, the further away you go.  I'm saying that to all areas of the world. Sometimes, you know, you just might abandon this, but you're grabbing something else. So you can say that, but as long as you're not hurting anybody, you know, with that belief, right? Because religion is a very loose in general term, right? Yeah.  That was a religion, right? And it hurt more people than anything else, right? Or any other religion, right? So I'm just, I'm sorry, I'm gonna debate with you. You know, just debate all the merits of everything, right? That's all. I agree with you. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll give you an example. We're talking about communism and communism was anti-religion. Yeah, you know, there's some nuances there. During the Cold War, for example, religion was banned in Russia and churches were turned into movie theaters, but in East Germany and in Poland, religion was still tolerated. It varied from one country to another. But yeah, ultimately forcing people to give up their religion is just as bad as imposing it in the first place. I agree, I agree, I agree. Yeah. Good conversation, my friend. Good to Sunday conversation. I didn't, you know, I wanna be fair to both sides because we don't have the other side on. So you gotta really, you know, we gotta look at all the angles from the parent's point of view to the principal's. But at the end of the day, she did do the right thing. You know, she upset some parents and she goes, you know what? I don't wanna upset anyone. I'll just take it down nicely and kindly. And that's the right thing to do. That was a class act on the part of that principal. The fact that she's not joining the conversation, the fact that the school board said, deal with it proves to me that the school was extremely skillful in handling this. They're leaving it to the fundamentalists. And now the fundamentalists are dealing with a very ugly backlash. It may empower some to show up at the next school board meeting and demand a resignation. But the school commissioners around the table will tell them, yeah, except we don't have a legal leg to stand on. Other than maybe review social media policy. Yeah, yeah. Any final notes? I think that it would have been great to have somebody like Michael Sweet, you know, to be in this debate, Ron Keel, people in the past who have expressed certain attachment to religious value through their heavy metal music. But I think in the end, even though I'm an atheist, I do have to say that people of various beliefs were the Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, respect them. If you cannot agree with them. I agree. And I like not to insult them because for every Bible thumping crazy, you have 90 quite reasonable Christians who put the scriptures to work and they agree with the message of kindness, support, generosity, involvement and things like that. The crazies with their cancel culture ignore them. You know, we didn't talk about that. Is this just cancel?  Well, I think this is evidence that cancel culture is not a lefty woke thing. It works both ways. Works both ways. Yeah, yeah. Well, back in, you know, it's interesting because, you know, the PRMC back in the day, even though it was driven by Democrats, it was Ronald Reagan, you know, who was a conservative in power at the time, right? The Republicans. So it was, it's strange how it was actually Tipper, Tipper Gore, right? Who though the, you know, part of the Democrat commit that, that was the committee. That was a Democratic committee that set it up. It wasn't the Republicans that set up that committee. Yeah, but wait a second here. In the 1980s, Republican Democrat thing was not what it is today. Democrats were a lot more centrist and so were Republicans. A difference between Democrat and Republican was in name only because it was more of the same. These days, you're talking about a gap, a division with no middle ground. But back then and up until the Bush era, the Bush junior era, Congress, the US Republican Democrat, it was all middle of the road. But do you think it's the left or the right that's driving this censorship society today? I think it's the right. Personally, I think it is the right. You have, you have to understand the word woke it's a word that became. Because I know a lot of, I know a lot of right guys were good friends, but they think it's the left that's driving us. Yeah, and the left thinks it's the right. So woke is originally a word used by the African-American community to describe people who were committed to fighting racism and discrimination. I'm awake to the fact that there's racism and discrimination. Now to say some of it took it a step too far, yeah. But a lot of people will tell you that on the right, there was always the cancel culture targeting LGBTs. They shouldn't have special rights or they shouldn't have rights. Liberal thinkers were banned from schools. Liberal thinking books were banned from schools. I remember very well in the 90s. Remember the 90s where the whole discussion was, should we teach evolution alongside with creation in school? Well, one is science, the other one is religion. No, no, no, no, no, it should be in science class. And teachers who were, I mean, I remember science teachers who were getting threats because they refused to teach creationism in a science class. So cancel culture has always been used on both sides. It's just that neither recognizes they're doing it. That's very well said. And I would agree to that. I think cancel culture is happening on both sides and each one is saying the other guys are responsible. I agree with that. In the 1980s, the PMRC and the labeling of music on records, PG-13 and all of that, it was cancel culture because when those labels on records came out, you had large chains like Walmart who said, as a policy, we will not stock controversial albums that have a label that says PG or whatever. That was canceled when large chains of bookstores decide not to keep in stock certain books because they don't wanna upset their conservatives among themselves, it's canceled. Same thing if they cancel a book from the other side.  Well, that's canceled culture too, but on a global corporate level. And whatever that message is, right or left, right? You just, but then again, it's a private company. It could do whatever it wants, right? They don't have to answer to the public. So. Exactly. Is it institutionalized? Public institution. Is it institutionalized cancel culture or is it driven by the media cancel culture? I don't know. I mean, it's going back and forth. And the perfect example is the PRMC. You had Reagan who was a Republican in power, but the committee was driven by Democrats. So, you know, and they were the ones responsible back then to sort of knock heavy metal out, right? Yeah, well, I remember I interviewed Rob Alford in 1986 on this very, very subject. And he was quite vocal about it and denouncing the PMRC, the parents, the cancel culture. He was brilliant and Alford being such a well-spoken man could express it in a way that I thought was brilliant. If you recall, there was once a lawsuit against the bans from parents who thought that their son committed suicide because of the lyrics of, I think, better you, better than me, something like that. I'm not sure. That's right, yeah. And Judas Priest made a point of sitting in the courtroom every day of the trial. You know, okay, it was a bit of publicity for them there, but the cancel culture was the lyrics of the songs might have pushed their highly depressive, highly addicted, big-time loser son who finally, unfortunately, offed himself. Was it because of a Judas Priest song? No, it was because of a demand was suffering from mental health issues, but rather than provide mental health issues, mental health issues later on. There's a difference between Canada and the US, and it's a slight difference. In the US, freedom of expression and freedom of the press, there are less limits. They've kind of tested that with Larry Flint, I believe, where he said, what is the limit of freedom of expression or freedom of the press, right? And it's a lot further in the US than it is in Canada. Canada, we're kind of... There are more restrictions in Canada, yeah. There are more restrictions in Canada.  But in the US, there's a little more leeway what I'm trying to say. And I'm not saying that's good or bad, it's just what it is, that's what I'm trying to say. In some cases it could be good, some cases it could be bad, yeah. But I don't think we should equate this petition from those parents as cancel culture. Cancel culture is a bad word because essentially it says, you know, on the left, cancel culture is canceling or removing from public display statues, worshiping war criminals, you know, Robert Lee Lee and people like that. While on the right, cancel culture is stopping minorities from asserting certain rights. So I think it's a bad use of the word. This is just, in my opinion, a tiny group of parents who missed the days where their school was a Christian one and, you know, they decided to hang on to this tiny little thread they thought could gather support, you know, and find support for their common outrage. And as we can see in the numbers, it's not working. People are not. And you know what? Too many, and I know too many Christians who love heavy metal too.  I mean, you know, he, I bet you if Michael was on, he'd be very, you know, open-minded about the subject and, but I'm not gonna speak for him. I'm just gonna tell everybody out there that I would be more than happy to speak to a parent on both sides of the debate. And I was trying to reach out to the parents on both sides of the debate. I don't wanna make this a bigger, I'm sorry. There's none. On both sides. This is Sunday morning, they're all at church. Yeah, they're all at, well, no, not no, the ones that are on each side. So I'm saying the side for the principal and the side that were against the principal. And I'm more than happy to speak to anyone in a fair, you know, debate. I'm not trying to slander either side here. We're just trying to talk about it in a very constructive, ethical, constitutional, and legal manner and a moral manner too. That's it. All right. All right, it's the fan. I'm gonna put some iron meeting on right after this. It's the number of the beast, please. I left a long one there. My back was blessed. It's karaoke time. All right, my friend, we'll talk soon. Okay, thanks for joining me. Jimmy, always a pleasure to be on your show. All right, man. Talk soon, bye. Bye, bye. And God.


In what Cuba described as drama, some of the victims were rescued from an underground church at Valentino area of Undotan in Undowes, the local government area of the state by the men of State Police Command have refused to leave the police custody. Recall that no fewer than 77 people comprising of 54 adults and 23 children were allegedly hypnotized, abducted and kept in the underground cell of a church known as the whole Bible believer's church, pastored by one Anif Uoshi David and his 45-year-old assistant Josiah Peter. Briefing journalists at the command headquarters in Acura on the latest development, the police public relations officer in the state, Fumilayo Doulames, said there's quite different appeals. The victims vowed to remain in the police custody until their pastor and his assistant are released. Because what we are witnessing there now, because we just interviewed some of the children between 11, 12, 14 to 17 and the way they are spoken, the way they spoke, the way they are speaking, it seems as if these children have been hypnotized. They are speaking with so confidence that God will soon come and they are on a seven-day camp that they are not eating for about seven days now and they are still ready to go on fasting. We want to have complete information, correct information about what is happening because all we say is this is 77 and 23 children. That is why we are here. One, have one information, correct one, then two, have a database of what these children, because we must do family tracing from the ministry. We must get some background information, how these children became so hypnotized, so indoctrinated and what is the way forward. Do they need rehabilitation? So if we needed to do that, then we will have to work legally to take custody of those ones. Then some of these children are already released. While reacting, the state governor who I wrote to me through the commissioner for women affairs and social development of the state, Adebu Mi Ushadao said that the government is working out with artists to rehabilitate those that need rehabilitation and might go legally by taking custody of the children. I spoke with the police. The police said as you go, they took me to him and I said, I said, my brother, this police I said, they said they want to release you. Let's go home. He said he cannot follow me. He said anywhere pastor is going, we follow pastor. Even though he said if I will follow him. So that's why I just be looking down. This is Jujuo. That's what I just feel. From the church on Friday and of course we also realized that despite all our talks on Saturday, there are still some people who refuse to be saying they want to follow the Lord and that they were comfortable staying within the police premises that they were not going to go home. We're not going to follow their parents back. Please do subscribe to our YouTube channel and don't forget to hit the notification button so you get notified about fresh news updates.


So I'm going to talk about the South African chapter. This paper was written together with our chair Haroun and two of our other colleagues listed here on the slide. So the main kind of idea of this chapter is to highlight some of the important trends in terms of demographics, labor market, employment, and wages in South Africa. So there are a few key trends that I'm going to highlight, but the presentation will focus on point number four, which is the role of the public sector in employment. So just to give you some background and context to the South African economy, we see that the slide shows the kind of real GDP growth rates in South Africa over time. And it's not necessarily one of the very fast growing emerging kind of market economies in Africa, but it has seen kind of moderate and consistent growth rates, particularly in the first decade after democracy. Since the kind of 2009 recession, growth, however, has been quite slow. And so in some senses, I think South Africa exhibits some characteristics of being in a middle income country trap. So this kind of moderate levels of economic growth, a high levels of unemployment, and very high levels of inequality. So it's kind of against this backdrop, then, that this paper tries to highlight some of the important trends that we think are affecting the South African labor market. In terms of the economic structure, this shows the kind of composition of GDP in South Africa. And we see that already in 1994, South Africa was a service-oriented economy. However, we had kind of substantial shares of mining and manufacturing contributing to output. By 2014, we see that the economy has increasingly then been driven by service sectors. So some of the fast-growing service sectors have been transport, storage, and communications, the financial sector, and wholesale and retail trade. Therefore, we can say that the economy is essentially a service-driven economy. So in terms of poverty and inequality, according to a kind of World Bank $2 a day poverty line, we do see that poverty has reduced since 1995 or 94. But it's kind of remained fairly high at about 26%. I guess one of the key kind of mediating factors in preventing this poverty rate from reducing further has been the very high levels of inequality. So as many of you may know about the South African society, the Gini coefficient is estimated somewhere around 0.65, so extremely high. And underpinning this kind of inequality is a labor market that's really been unable to absorb a large proportion of the labor force. So the unemployment rate using a very narrow definition is at about 25%. For the youth, this is substantially higher. And I guess the state has kind of stepped in to try and mitigate some of these challenges by implementing a comprehensive social welfare system. So there is research that shows that the social transfers in South Africa have been quite effective at reducing market inequality that would be even higher than reported here. So I'm gonna touch on this demographic transition and not go into too much detail. But essentially what we see in South Africa is that in the kind of late 1990s, early 2000s, there was a rapid growth in the size of the labor force, which was primarily driven by increasing participation rates as opposed to increases in the working age population. So therefore we've seen that unemployment growth has been unable to kind of keep up with the rapid growth in the labor force. So this is slightly different to many of the other African economies that we see and some that were presented here in that we do not expect to see rapid growth of the working age population in South Africa. In fact, the country is quite somewhere along its demographic transition. So estimates using the UN kind of population statistics show that the working age population is expected to remain at between 65 and 67% for the next kind of decade or two. These are just some estimates that our co-author did that shows essentially that South Africa is already kind of far along this period where they're expected to be a demographic dividend. So some kind of growth benefit from population change. South Africa is already in the portion of the curve where it's declining. So let's get into some of the key trends that we highlight then for the labor market. This table shows the main sectors in South Africa and the kind of absolute and relative growth in employment as well as employment shares. And the key takeaway here kind of highlighted by the colored boxes is that over this 10-year period that we look at, this date is also a little bit dated, but we see the primary, where the job losses are concentrated are in the primary sector. So agriculture and to some extent mining as well. The sources of employment growth in the South African economy then are primarily from the tertiary sector. So here we've highlighted the financial sector as well as what's called the community social and personal services, which then is primarily made up of the public sector. So again, in terms of the structural change, we see that according to output, employment is also being generated primarily by services. The second important trend has been the increasing use of temporary employment services. So this is also called labor brokers in South Africa. And these are employment services where workers are then contracted out to firms. So they're like third-party employers. And it's a little difficult to estimate this given the labor force surveys, but it's kind of hidden within a category within the financial sector, kind of an unclassified item. And we see that the TS employment as a proportion of financial sector employment has risen from about 27% to about 47% in more recent years. And as a proportion of total employment has also gone up to between six and 7%. So some of the main kind of job activities within this TS sector are things like protective services, farm hands, helpers and cleaners. So low and some medium-skilled type jobs. And essentially the benefit to firms is that they are able to circumvent some of the kind of labor regulations in South Africa. So the debate in South Africa is that this mechanism is used to overcome some of the labor market rigidities. However, when we've kind of looked at the indicators of labor market rigidity and compared them to other similar countries, we find that in terms of non-wage labor costs and indices relating to firing costs, South Africa is not really substantially higher than other middle income countries or upper middle income countries. One aspect of rigidity is perhaps in the difficulty of hiring workers. But again, it doesn't seem to be overwhelming evidence that the labor market is too rigid. So then the third important trend is related to skills-biased labor demand. So this fits in very well with the sectoral shifts, I think. Because again, what we highlight here then is if we kind of disaggregate the sexual employment by a skill type, we see that again the job losses within the primary sector are again concentrated in low-skilled and medium-skilled occupations. Where employment is being generated in the tertiary sector, it's then more in the high-skilled and medium-skilled type occupations. And this is particularly concerning in the South African context, given the kind of highly unequal education system in terms of quality. And this has been one of the legacies of the apartheid system and I think continues to be prevalent in South Africa today, where a large proportion of high school graduates perhaps do not have adequate level of skill in terms of quality of education. So then the main kind of focus of the paper moves on to the role of the public sector in employment. So one of the trends that we've highlighted is that in terms of the share of employment in South Africa, we see that the public sector employment has risen from about 14.5% in 2008 to about 17.5% in 2014. So it seems to be a source of employment growth in the South African labor market and also perhaps suggests that the state has stepped in, particularly in 2009 at a time of labor market crisis, to cushion the effects of the global recession. And post-2009, employment growth has been slow. So perhaps the state has continued to play this role since then. In terms of the composition of this increase in employment, this graph essentially shows that for the change, net change in public sector jobs in the post-2008 period, these are the occupations that kind of contributed to that change. The fastest growing public sector occupations are then quite a few low-skilled occupations. There's sweepers, cleaners, other types of helpers, as well as some medium-skilled occupations. So you have kind of police officers, primary education teachers, home-based care workers as well. So we're trying to kind of go a little deeper to figure out what are the differences then between the public and private sector employment. And this table compares worker characteristics between these two sectors. And when we refer to the private sector, it's the formal non-agricultural private sector. And essentially what we find then is that public sector workers are an average older. There's also a larger proportion of women that work in the public sector relative to the private sector. And there's a larger proportion of Africans working in the public sector relative to the private sector. And this is important because it also shows that the state has been able to transform its workforce at a faster rate in the private sector, as these are kind of two previously disadvantaged groups in South Africa. The public sector workers are also kind of have a higher average level of education measured by years of schooling. And they are substantially higher proportion of unionized workers in the public sector. In terms of the kind of occupational distribution, it seems that the public sector has a slightly more compressed occupational distribution, so not as many workers right at the top end and also not as many workers at the bottom kind of occupational levels. An important and interesting trend then within this whole context of rising public sector employment has also been a rapidly rising public sector union density. And what's also interesting here is that the private sector has shown kind of the completely opposite trend in South Africa. So the private sector union density has declined since 1997, whereas the public sector union density has increased. So kind of the latest estimates we have is about 70% of public sector workers belong to a union. So we want to then compare the wage distributions between the public and private sector to estimate a kind of wage premium. And this is a simple plot of the wage distributions between these two sectors. And it seems that on average, both median and mean wages in the public sector are higher than the private sector. If we then disaggregate these distributions by union status, we see that for non-unionized workers, it seems that this wage premium doesn't really exist. However, for unionized workers, they're still higher average wages in the public sector relative to the private sector. So in the interest of time, I'm not gonna explain in too much detail what we do, but it's a standard kind of two-stage heckman employment model to estimate the wage premium in the public sector. So in the first stage, we correct for selection into the labor market and then estimate a standard earnings function. And this is the main table of results from our analysis. And what we get out of this is then, in the first two specifications, we just merely control for union status. And what we see there then is that there is no average public sector wage premium. However, there is a positive and significant union premium. However, when you interact union status with either public and private sector employment, we see that for the unionized public sector worker, there is a positive and substantial wage premium. And this holds true when we separate out public sector employment into government and state-owned enterprises. In terms of, sorry, I should add that we've obviously controlled for all worker characteristics and done the usual kind of diagnostic tests. In terms of magnitude then, what we see is that in this interactive specification, for non-unionized workers is actually a wage penalty for working in the public sector of about 18.5% on average. But for unionized public sector workers, there's a positive and significant wage premium of about 21%. So therefore, when you control for TES employment, there's kind of no average public sector wage premium. However, belonging to a union then results in a significant and large public sector wage premium. And I think this is kind of something new and interesting that's perhaps been looked at a little more in recent years. We've essentially done the same thing across the wage distribution, running these quantile regressions. And we find that the premium for unionized workers is consistent across the wage distribution. And it's highest at the median worker. The wage penalty for non-unionized workers seems to also exist kind of across the wage distribution. So we've also then, I guess, from this try to model a labor market segmentation model, kind of using simple multinomial logic kind of function. And I think it confirms our result that there is this wage wedge between the unionized public sector worker and the rest of the kind of formal economy in South Africa. And the segmentation model also then confirms that they are distinct characteristics as distinctly different characteristics of workers in the public and the private sectors. So to conclude then, I think what we see in the South African economy and the labor market is that both output growth and employment growth is increasingly being generated by the services sector. There is also then a rise in the use of labor brokers. We also then highlight this kind of important rising share of public sector workers and employment along with this idea that for the unionized public sector worker there's a significant wage premium. So it starts to suggest that perhaps in the post 2000 era there's been a new labor market elite in South Africa, the unionized public sector employee. And I think for us this is particularly worrying in a context where there is unequal education system where firms are trying to avoid direct employment where manufacturing has essentially stagnated and the share of manufacturing and employment has declined. I think this new trend is particularly worrying. Haroon presented some updated work two days ago and I think it also confirms this idea that if you look at wage growth across the distribution you see a hollowing out in the middle of the distribution. So essentially there's some wage growth right at the bottom which is attributed to minimum wages and then wage growth right at the top and we think that part of this is the public sector wage premium. So yeah, I think there's some important and difficult problems ahead in the South African labor market.


What is social cognition? Well social cognition put in a nutshell is probably exactly the bundle of cognitive capacities that make us human.  So to be able to understand the mental states of other persons. And non-verbal communication cues for instance play a considerably important role there. So eyebrow flash for instance, gaze behavior, mimic behavior and all these different kind of signals are extremely important that may lead us. And then help us to find out whether this person I'm talking to is a potential partner for myself, a potential collaborator in business for instance or potential friend with whom it would be worth going together for a period of my life for instance. And why is this relevant for you as a psychiatrist? Well social cognition disturbances are probably at the heart of many psychiatry disturbances and one of the model diseases we are currently working quite a lot on is obviously autism. So persons who are not able to fully mentalize and fully understand at a glance if you wish intuitively what other persons think and feel. Although especially highly intelligent autistic subjects of course are able to infer on the basis of certain rules what other persons are thinking and feeling but they don't do it intuitively. And there are other diagnostic groups like schizophrenia for instance where social cognition is extremely important understanding of mimic and gestural behavior of other persons and also different sorts of personality disorders where social cognition might be extremely informative. Do we know anything about the role the brain plays in problems in social cognition? Oh yes we do quite know quite a lot about it so it seems as if there are two different functional systems at play and the one is usually called the so called mentalizing system or theory of mind system or social neural network essentially comprising the media prefrontal cortex, temporal parietal junction, medial parietal cortical areas and potentially also the amygdala. On the other hand side we have the so called mirror neuron system so which is probably much more famous and much more popular that comprises superior parietal regions on the convexity of the brain and premotor regions. And it seems to me that the mirror neuron system is probably more comparably early processing stage that is responsible for the detection of potentially socially salient information whereas the social neural network is comparably more or later stage of processing social information that is relevant more for the evaluation of socially relevant information. Is it possible to treat problems in social cognition? Yeah it's definitely possible to treat social deficits. One of the key elements there is obviously psychotherapy, psychosocial support so this field is extremely important for schizophrenia, personality disorders but also for autism. So we can enrich the repertoire of different behavioural styles and rules how to behave in formal interviews for instance and also in autistic subjects and Kyle can try to improve that. On the other hand side there are also attempts to enrich our pharmacology. For instance oxytocin is one of the candidates there but it's still a long way to go before we can really think of using that in our clinical practice. You have been advocating second person neuroscience as a method to study these things. What is that? Well second person neuroscience or two person neuroscience of the study of dietic interaction simply means that communication and interaction means two persons and this is trivial in a sense but this insight has been lost over many years now in cognitive neuroscience. So cognitive neuroscience has brought out social neuroscience as a new or social cognitive neuroscience as a small little sub-discipline but it has by far neglected the second person you need in order to communicate like the two of us are communicating at the moment and the second person that you need for interaction. And so second person neuroscience or two person neuroscience simply emphasises the point that you need two different persons and that it's not sufficient to look only at one particular brain but to use the phrase of Chris Writh that you have to close the loop in order to have the second person as well incorporated and integrated into this study design. Thank you.


Welcome once again to the breakfast on plus TV Africa is now time for off the press We have a quick review of the stories making headlines across Nigeria this Thursday morning I'm starting with the daily Independent newspapers and the big one should be on your screen in a few seconds the big one there is talking about the Of course one of the things I just mentioned the state of emergency in Anambra state It says federal government gets knocks over emergency rule threat in Anambra And as I said state of emergency threat and embarrassment Plan reaffirms discriminatory posture of government says pandev north east more qualified for emergency rule Ubani tells federal government Also, see you PPA alleges plots to derail 2023 poll scuttle electoral act amendment Still on the daily independent 10% of political class feasting on Nigeria's Commonwealth says the NLC So all new names by Gadda house in a state after under busy canoe Governor ex-governors nadeco chief things navy and others on our ex Milad and also a PC heading for implosion and extinction party youths warn insist no imposition during national convention NCC disqualifies Nigerians below 18 years from owning sim cards and We can also find on the daily independent more boring will trail 6.258 trillion Naira 2022 budget deficit says federal government PDP convention mark Sarki reject party national chairmanship Moving on from the daily independent. Let's go to the punch newspapers High budget deficit don't harm our future experts warn government federal government plans more loans Naira will fall further inflation would rise debt servicing will worsen say experts And it says government will continue to borrow to finance projects. No money says minister Everywhere I go a maxed about a max to contest 2023 presidential seat says Kalu And also this morning caught someone's funny coyotes ex-wife of our ledge document falsification Female ex-NIS officer arrested for scamming job seekers and collecting 34 million Naira Can reconstitutes prayer panel against killings kidnappings and others and to Randy a kitty men remanded for scaling fence and raping a 16-year-old girl in a mother's room We can also find on the punch this morning Legos a belkata highway protesters threatened to ground Ogun issue 21 day automaton Federal government considers taking states to Supreme Court of a value-added tax saga and also an umbrella killings PDP alleges Regan plot will be another kicks as federal government malls emergency rule and I think we can move from the punch now So what we can find on the daily trust newspapers federal government malls state of emergency in Anambra Malami confirmed our worst fears says the state government Take order to Zamfara Katsina. I've got says and also APC planning to rig. That's from the PDP Biafra agitation madness counter groups Likely says umahi and also Nigeria and others the benefit as Google in invest 410 billion Naira in Africa's global transformation Federal government to borrow six point two five eight trillion Naira to finance 2022 budget Still on the daily trust 37 days after Buhari yet to appoint new ministers from Kanu and Tarabah Scores killed houses burnt as gunmen attack Zamfara village and Mixed reactions as NCC sets 18-year age limit for sim ownership and others in draft Regulation finally under leadership newspapers this morning on insecurity federal government malls state of emergency in Anambra Insist November 6th governorship election must hold it will worsen security situation says on as a federal government constitutionally empowered to declare emergency rules as a Lawyers are speaking and the Anambra case does not suggest that and that's from the PDP Also on the leadership this morning pension Managers have diverted billions of Naira says the EFCC NLC opts for living wage declares minimum pay dead and we can also find a POS and mobile money transactions hit 9.7 trillion Naira Push to throw PDP presidential ticket open intensifies I think present moment where presents a 16.39 trillion Naira 2022 budget today. Those are the big stories on the Leadership news papers. Good morning to our guest Mr. Ezekiel Nyayetok a public affairs analyst. Thanks for joining us All right, of course the big one that has made headlines across all the papers is the controversy concerning the state of emergency in Anambra state a Lot of people have spoken against it But a federal government of course, you know still playing with the idea. What are your thoughts on this? I Think that it's very unfortunate absolutely Unfortunate that there's what you call emotional intelligence in governance and it comes down to what I've always talked about We we the way forward in governance is is cerebral governance governance is an Extremely important affair that you need the brightest and the best to take the most informed Decision in time for time the Bible says all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient If you read the spirit of the time, you will understand that the Insecurity on the southeast comes from a primary source We may have other secondary sources, but the primary source is that of feeling alienated that of feeling not wanted That of feeling like second-class citizens that are feeling that We are really not part of this business. We are like Passengers we're not like, you know principal actors or participants or stakeholders And if you do come to terms with that primary, you know concern then everything you do should be to the end of dispelling that notion They could have been something that they misunderstood so you'll give so much time to show that They are important. They ask stakeholders When you have done that on the first hand Then you seemingly take the wind of the sail Because as much as they are very enlightening, you know Southeasterners who are really not happy with what I pop is doing because their businesses are being interrupted and everything They are also at the back of your minds not happy that The federal government treats them the way they do And what has just happened shows the the complete lack of emotional intelligence on the part of the the attorney general and There's a post-theoring that he really needs to be called to attention called to call to order You know the the the attorney general to my mind To my mind, I may be wrong and I hope I'm wrong. I pray I'm wrong Has this impression of not being a servant but of a lord of a master Of being somebody that that That should be I don't know the word to use that will not be extremely derogatory So he talks down on people. So he has this post-turing that is like He's doing us a favor and he's wrong So if if you look at everybody has said the same thing, so I'm just going to sound like a broken record Look at what's going on in the northeast. Look at Dan Farah. Look at Katzina Look at the state where the governor has come up and said look, this is not past me or no fit a game And he said it's absolutely nothing And then Anambra is about to hold a lecture and you are as much as Imagining not to talk of verbalizing, you know, uh, you know Emergency rule in that state Exactly what did he want to achieve? It beats my imagination exactly what Mr. Malami Internet to achieve On the flip side of it I think that it's absolutely important that the southeasterners Ask themselves exactly what they are doing to themselves. Forget about Malami I think that time has come for that conversation To hold. I know he's starting to hold. I know he's coming late in the day But I also believe he's better late than never Because if we get inside the house and start to talk objectively And you know looking at each other in the eyeball I think that there's a lot of absolutely stupid, reckless, irresponsible things being done Where you are smiting your nose to spite your face It doesn't add up So I think that like there's a greek adage that says, you know It's not a new name. It's not a new quote. You wouldn't understand It simply means as you caution the hops you should also caution the chicks I think this is a two-way thing that we must take together Quickly also share your thoughts on those who have you know seen this and of course brought up conspiracy theories That this is just a government's plan to You know or some well some person's plan to steal the election And that's might be the reason they are thinking about this. These are just theories flying left and right And but do you agree that it gives space for those theories? That's the reason I found it you see with all due respect to my very very very cerebral Nice intelligent articulate patriotic friends that are in the APC. I think the APC is largely controlled by people Who just don't think with their brain? They don't think it's like You know, maybe we'll come to it where you talk of ncc trying to put age regulation on who owns sim cards Maybe we'll come to it. I really wish we'll come to it But the thing is that these people Think of governance and how to win more like thugs A lot of them And that's not the way you win governance democratically by superior argument That's what democracy is all about appeal to the people come to the people give them superior Arguments on why they should change and follow you. I don't know why anybody would want to join APC at this point in time Because all indices. I'm not an APC member. I'm not a PDP member. I belong to the third group We were a AGC is but and and I'm telling our party We just got to come cerebral. We got to come as a clean alternative because these people are not thinking This is not governance It's not governance So I think that it's not it's not beyond them to think that way of you know Just causing some troubles here and there so that they can now Create this state of emergency and then bring about you know, then being in control to conduct the election After with their food that is the more reason the southeasterners should wise up and sit up and think straight and re-strategize All right, miss. I miss. I talk I now want you because you already mentioned it. Let's now go to talking about the ncc's new In regulation and saying that only 18 year olds and above can own sim cards Do you think that's you know a good move? Is the most is the most disingenuous most thoughtless The most provoking thing I've heard in a long time Do you know are people in government? Don't have a lot of the don't have the capacity to discern the signs of the times Technology is the future of the world We are thinking of how to get telephones, which is Smallest part of technology the primary school children You are thinking of limiting age limit to 18 years to own a phone in 2023 in 2021 This is preposterous Absolutely mind-boggling how somebody in this age can think that way It's about mental laziness What we should be thinking of is how do we get telephones into the hands of primary school children What we should be thinking of is how do we get laptops as a state policy to every stationary stationary institution child What we should be thinking of is how can we make programming coding, you know A part of the curriculum in secondary school, even a primary school What we should be thinking of is okay.  These are the people that should be in government And they say okay. Why don't we do like this? Can we have parents buying scenes For their children below a certain age so that There are special scenes that are cloned It means that once your parent buys this phone for you Whatever activities that you do with your phone reflect on the phone of your sponsor or of your parents In which case they have access and you cannot block them to the sites that you watch on the network Yes, they have access to the mails that come to you. They have access to they You know just that thought will make the children I don't even know how somebody of 15 years is a child How are we even thinking of our youth? That is why somebody at 45 calls himself a youth Somebody else 50 is a youth It's it's it's you know weird, you know because I know that and these are some of the statements that I also saw yesterday that You know in certain parts of the country, you know, they're still being able to get married at 16 and at 15 And so, you know, how you know, do you not see that person as a child? But you know, you you see an 18 year old You know and of course the ncc is Banning people from getting phone phones at that age And also, you know talking about innovation and you know, how we we need to get more young people Access to the internet smartphones, you know, very very important in in today's age For those who can't afford laptops, they can still do research on their smartphones 14 and 15 years Wow, you know, you know, I I I pray God gives me opportunity to To live at the setting capacity There will be laws statements and thinking patterns That will make other states to sit off Because we really need to recalibrate. We need to reset with our thinking our thinking has become completely Anachronistic and not in times with the times, you know Technology is I look forward to a president who would want to be the minister not of petroleum But of the ICT Because that's a future of Nigeria Anybody I see thinking oil has no business being in government at the setting leadership position All right, let's move away back governance to cerebral governance. Yeah, let's move to the punch now There's something on the punch there. It's also one of the big stories Saying don't harm our future experts one government for the government plans more loans They're talking about borrowing more than six trillion Naira to support the 2022 budget Um, say I talk it feels it seems rather like we may never end, you know, this borrowing trend You know, we won't end borrowing train because the mentality of the borrowers I once talked with the governor on a very sensitive topic, you know Long time ago or some time ago so that you don't place any administration And he said something that really really hit me hard and bothered me for a long time He said My brother that's what the person used to address me as my brother Let's leave this thing alone. No, I have less than four years to go When I leave others I don't want to start something that And and that is the mindset of the people in office They don't think of our future. No, they don't They think of the present And Nigerians are not helping matters We celebrate the bridges built. What did you do? Imagine a man who comes in and spends eight years laying foundation on education at the end of the eight years That foundation that he laid from day one because he was very focused He might not be credited with the bridges he built the roads he built How many Nigerians will come to a Hail him for laying a foundation for a sustainable future. Look at our world today Our world is celebrated on account of what he did on education That's why sometimes back I was talking to this man And I hope that he has a chance to really talk to Nigerians at the risk of seemingly talking about him This man in in in in Kano, Kwankwa. So The things he did in education were mind boggling, but who is talking about it? But we talk about the bridges. So I think that the media should actually come to set a new conversation on sustainable, you know, developments Look at the policies of every governor, rate them and see who is a here and now governor And who is a leader who thinks of the next generation and not a politician who thinks of the next election Can we come to Profile the activities of government and governors and dispensations and see who laid a foundation for a better state A better Nigeria and then hail people and encourage people to go foundational You know, you know, I'm an architect and there's a structure. I did in jabi My brother, we had about 52 piles What went into the ground was was was mind boggling, but nobody knows it All they see is the structure that is coming up But nobody talks about the foundation. Who is laying the foundation for Nigeria? And do we know that such a man might not have the super structure built All he will be able to do is build a foundation When he builds the foundation who has come to interrogate that the thinking pattern so that he'll be hailed for building the foundation And others held to make sure they build on that foundation the super structure and everybody that builds an extra floor Is hailed including the man that builds foundation It's a thinking pattern and process that we need to come to terms with as a nation for us to have sustainable development All right Now let's move away from there and then react to something that the nlc saying it's on the daily independent top right corner And it says that 10 percent of political class feasting on Nigeria's commonwealth and that's from the uh, Nigerian labor congress That's very very correct and we really don't seem to know what is going on what governance is all about I'll tell you this somebody says that um, you know, the the most Prosperous or not prosperous. That's not a good word that it reaches the wealthiest Nigerians and all politicians the civil servants Okay, and That is correct only to an extent in the sense that they are setting when we talk of juicy You know ministries and things like that. Those are doing the roads. Those are doing the capital projects now the same comes to politicians I had a very very heated debate You know just yesterday in my state When I asked somebody asked the question who owns the economy of a quite good state You'll be shocked to know that between the last dispensation and this one. We have spent close to eight trillion Naira in our state Which used to be at the state more than the national budget But where is it reflected? Can we really Find, you know, there's something that Madam Okunjo Iwala said She said she's speaking as a developmental economist That she's not been able to see 20 of What has been collected on ground in a certain state? Let me not be too specific She said she's speaking not just as a senior or minister of finance But as a developmental economist and that is what is going on in Nigeria setting Nigerians are he I don't know the word that they are stupendously rich They are they are they are they are in well they are well to the point of insanity Right, so that 10% as far as I'm concerned is a very generous. I'll say maybe 5% of Nigerians I'm really feasting. There are some people that don't know where to store dollars. I'm told It is speculated in this in this in this our same country. They don't know where to store dollars I'm not talking of Naira. It's all about dollars. So it is that that bad and then this government I feel very I hope there will be a day I'll actually Say what on my mind concerning mr. President because I didn't vote for him But I had a lot of Confidence in him as an individual I just thought that the work of the office was too overwhelming for him at this point of his age and them Health and all that but in terms of a person Nobody would have any any any any any question about his integrity to a great extent before now But as of today Let me reserve that for another day But what's going on in this government under his watch is is is is a sin. It's a crime It's it's almost unforgivable All right, and finally, I think we can wrap up talking about the pdp convention that says pdp convention mark Sarki reject party national chairmanship the of course Conversation has really been about, you know, you know who we eventually or if they will eventually pick a southern candidate For 2023 and of course that you know would come from Whoever it is that they pick for their you know as a party's chairman, you know That would give insights as to who the candidate would be Um to share your thoughts on, you know, where this is going or where this seems to be going You see there's something about the pdp that They have learned from apc when President gohari was chosen as a candidate of the apc. I had a lot of thoughts I remember one of my senator friends. I wish I could call his name We had a a hard talk in hilton for about two hours standing outside And at the end I said you went to king's college. I expect better from you It was a hard talk and he just said My brother, my brother, this is about winning a lecture This is about winning a lecture. Let's win first when we really know what to do pdp is also thinking that way All this issue of it's fair. It's not fair. It should be torn. It should be not pdp is not thinking that well Trust me. They are not They are just waiting for apc to say South or southwest or southeast and then they will go and do their maths and they're like What do we do to win?  Why don't we also pick north? You understand me they can have that argument and they can if they have smart people They can they can actually push that narrative and then they look for one national that can get the 10 million that What hurry has been having? You know the whether it's mythical or Or real 10 million that I don't know So they don't look and then they put it in the pocket Put the south ways look for somebody to bag in and get and then come to southeast and get somebody like If I may call a name peter obu or mochanu You understand me to pay with the others and the maths looks good and they are in for for a ride the win election And then that is it an election is about numbers. It's not about sentiment So I think that we are yet to hear the last from bdp and if they are thinking like I think they are thinking They are still like flying kites here and there and distracting until when they can land strike But I hope that they they will go south as well So that the third force will now look for a nigerian and that will um, you know See the show Well, let quickly also This is not on the papers this morning, but I want you to share your thoughts on the Pandora papers if you've been following the Pandora papers discussion in the last few days and the you know releases that have been coming out What are your thoughts and what do you think this might achieve? As a nation, I doubt that it will achieve much You would realize that I have not been following your conversation, but Generally in the past Names have come out And nothing has happened For instance, you would realize that I think saaki has been there Desiani has been there in the past Our government don't think that way. That is why Even the sponsors of Boko Haram That the UAE Was able to say something about And people don't think that way They don't think governance They don't think patriotism They don't think essence. They think politics. Everything is our politics If there is just one person in the ruling party that is reflected there And it is public That person becomes the saving grace of everybody. They don't push everything under the carpet Because you're like, oh if you touch it, it will affect our election They just think about election. Election is what And I think the media really needs to come to enlighten us on what governance is all about It bothers me.  Thank you so much for joining us this Thursday morning And of course, I wish you a very interesting day ahead Thank you sir Good morning once again Stay with us when we come back we'll take a you know a little bit back in history And of course we're going back to the end 1960 pretty short discussion on today in history Where Nigeria did join the United Nations I'll tell you a little bit about that when we come back from this break. Stay with us


Trunks is mad. Years, if not in his entire life, at least, this timeline's Trunks have built to this moment. Well, welcome back to the channel. I'm watching episode 62 of Dragon Ball Super today, and the last episode ended with Trunks with this big power spike after everything that's happened thus far. Goku going sort of through a similar power spike after hearing about, you know, Goten and Shichi and what happened, and what Obusamisu or Goku blacked into them, and kind of just their taunting pushed Trunks to the edge as well, and he's filled with this newfound power and energy that we've never seen from him before. We're gonna hop right into it if you need to channel drop us up and hit that big boy bell and let's get started. You actually believe you can defeat me? Do you not see his aura?   Is he really planning to sacrifice himself? I wouldn't be too shocked if all of this ended with Trunks sacrificing himself for the future of the timeline. It'd be sad, but be like poetic in a sense. God, his eyes, he's like blind with rage. Yeah, but how much does that matter? I don't mean to like hate on Vegeta either, but he can't take down Zamasu. I don't think any of them can take down Zamasu. They're so in sync. He just took it. He's built different, baby. Those his eyes? Yeah, I was about to say. Just throw it right back.  I mean, the fact that he can send it back in the first place is pretty impressive. Obviously, they didn't see it coming.  I mean, yeah, let's see it. Was that Trunks? That was his burst? He is in. See what? How they don't see this is futile. I'll admit reaching this level of power. But it doesn't matter. You defeat that. They're just so insanely fast, too. I mean, they've gotten hits in and whatnot, but has it really mattered? Aside from showing that you're not willing to give up? Also, was that the exact same animation frame from like a minute ago? There has to be something else. Something. I really think Beerus and Weasel are going to show up. Bees and Weerus. I don't want them to have to. I want Trunks to be able to do this himself for his timeline. But, uh, man, I just don't think he has enough. It has to be something else to play. And run. Yup, it's futile.  Mm-hmm. Powered smart. Yes! If Goku says to leave a fight, you leave. He's the last person that would want to walk away from a fight. Get the time machine ready. Damn. Dude, that play takes everything from Vegeta to put his ego aside and say, okay. I bet they're going to go back and be like, Beerus? Hello? I mean, they can explain what happened with the time ring. No, you don't! Oh, boy, Trunks. Dang, they really are just dippin'. They have to. And they're gone. Dude, you were toying with them. Yeah, he knows they'll be back. And he doesn't think they'll have any kind of chance still. Now what? This should be interesting. Has he just been standing there waiting for them to come back? Oh my gosh. I mean, I guess it is his father who left on a very dangerous mission. Wait, and mother. Bulma's there. Well, that must mean the future changed, right? Surely. Surely the future changed. I tell you, doubting imbeciles to have faith in my divine power. Oh, this is so awkward. He's going to see them all torn up. Have faith in your divine power. This is what I wanted. We walked into a nightmare. Dang. Not doing great, bud. Interesting. So it didn't change. Honestly, I had a feeling that might be the case. There's no way. That's all you say. It was insulting, but Trunks made a convincing argument. No, Bulma. Stop. I'd be pissed, too. Because all that matters right now is finding a way to prevail. True. True. Now get a plan together. You three. Get a hole in him. You're already banged up here. You don't have to do anything. Did they mention anything about the other gods in that timeline? Yeah, they did. I don't blame her in the slightest. That means all our questions have been answered. So what do you... We're leaving. Leaving? I already eliminated Zamasu from this reality. I figured he wouldn't see it as his responsibility. Good luck in all your battles, Earthlings. Oh, my gosh. After all we've been through, no more ramen. I mean, yeah. What do you do? It feels so hopeless. Aw. Little tiny goten.  Oh, my gosh. He never tells Chichi anything. Oh, he has some kind of idea. You lying to me? Yes. I am a man of the law. I would never keep something from a worried citizen. But he would from his friend Chichi for his friend Goku. Oh. Disco's flying. Oh, my God. The kids just go flying by. Oh, no. Oh, no. I do see, like, little trunks as, like, the bad boy negative influence on Goten, who, like, Chichi wants to be this academic. Kids are strong, but you don't even have a chance against them. They were about to dip in the time machine. Hey, they got some gusto. Imagine what Chichi would do if she found out I let her rest. Yeah, for real. And get hurt in the future. And Bulma seen firsthand how dangerous it is. Hey, I'm up here. Just what I need. Thinking out it. Oh, my God. Dad? Can't explain. Jesus, bro, she's scary. Bulma, what are you hiding from me? Vegeta's carrying them. Oh, he's got a ton of food. Why am I hit? Oh, there was a hole in him. The flesh wound. Oh, dude, that's kind of cute, though. Can you make those for me? Maybe Chichi and Gohan will have a plan. They're the key to this all.  Oh, my God. She actually thought that this Goten just died. I was confused at verse two. It's okay. It's honestly not as complicated as I was expecting it to be. All right, let's go on thinking. Maybe Gohan does play a bigger role. They can use everyone they can. Oh, my God. The opposite. With their tails tucked behind their legs. That was enough to show Black how to reach his own God level of Super Saiyan. And the invincible body of Zamasu. Yeah, that's the biggest part of this all. Two versions of the same fighter. The coordinated attacks are devastating. Oh, yeah, since they're basically the same person. I did say they were in sync. I love how the kids are part of this meeting. Fighting to a draw may be the best we can possibly hope for. Fighting to a draw. But how do you even draw with someone that's invincible, man? There's one way to win. Oh? Containment. Oh, trap them. Not the feet. Master Roshi tried a long time ago to trap the Old King Pickle. Mmm. Is this OG Dragon Ball stuff? Oh, shoot. Oh, shoot. He's like, lock you away? Then the technique could trap them. Oh. Why did I never even think about just incapacitating them? We sealed them away. How do you get them in place for it? The seal remains unbroken, locked away. Mmm. And where do you put them? How soon can we leave? You need a stronger plan first. Going back to the hyperbolic capture. Maybe we'll seal them, but not until I've given them my own. Yeah, not until he can beat them up at least a little bit. How do I do that again exactly? Master Roshi can show you right now. Piccolo's laugh? Gladly show you myself. Nah, that's cool. No. No. I wanted some Piccolo Goku time. Roshi. What enemy could he be facing? That you would need that? Just like old times. Well, I can't think of any reason I shouldn't. He's like, well, I got bingo at 8. Turtle. Oh. He's going to seal the turtle. I guess they could break the seal after, right? And free turtle. Oh my God. Can you put in any object, like a jar or something? This OST is so, is a Gemma. You need more focus, kid. Did they aim them into whatever object they're stealing them away in? Ready? Aw. Bro is petrified. Is this like the animation of him, like, moving? Turtle till sunrise to get it. Now, how is it sealed? Tie some string around it to hold the enchanted charm, and the seal is good to go. You can thank me by taking me out sometime to meet some smoking young hives. Okay. All righty, cute little quick training arc. Oh, wait, they went to go a zoo. The earthlings have been condemning my lord over his miscalculation, and now he feels responsible. Oh, wow. He just didn't show that he felt responsible. Wait, so he's actually coming up with a plan or something. I will do all I can. Aw. If all this is happening because I chose Amosu as my apprentice. Ah, Gowasu, you couldn't have known, but... Now, did you misinterpret a lot of what happened, like, as he said it? Yeah, a lot, but that's okay. What an adorable little, quick little training arc. I mean, the pacing has been moving pretty quickly. I mean, we came from that timeline, the future timeline again, back again. The second time, like he said, got the whole situation explained, came up with a plan, started training for a set plan, kind of finished the training for the plan, and now poor future trunks just to hold off until we get back again. And now we have a sort of plan that I think could actually work. I mean, better than the one we had before where we went back to the future like, well, if they're still there, I guess we'll just have to fight again. Just a terrible idea. But I like to draw back to older stuff in the Dragon Ball, like, lore and universe, because I feel like a lot of most people's problems with Dragon Ball is the power scaling and how it gets the heights that, like, older stuff doesn't really seem to matter or kind of pales in comparison. But whenever you draw back to techniques and stuff like that, it doesn't feel that way. And I like that Beerus is actually that it's shown that he does feel a little bit bad about what happened when in reality I see that, like, he just didn't want his ego hurt in front of Bulma for being wrong. But maybe they can help in some form or fashion too. That's it for this episode. If you knew the channel, don't forget to drop us up, and I'll see you in the next one. Peace, peace.