Federal Judicial Center Orientation Series for United States Bankruptcy Judges Principles of Calendar Management with the Honorable J. Wendell Roberts, Chief Bankruptcy Judge for the Western District of Kentucky Judge Roberts was appointed to the court in 1987. He received his BA degree from Eastern Kentucky University in 1964 and his JD from the University of Kentucky College of Law in 1966. The Western District of Kentucky has three authorized bankruptcy judges who sit in Louisville. They also hear cases at several other locations in the state. The United States Bankruptcy Court for the Western District of Kentucky is headquartered in Louisville, Kentucky and has divisional offices in Owensboro, Paducah, and Bowling Green. Its sole purpose is to serve the parties that come before it. It is not, therefore, a Judge Roberts Court or a Judge Dickinson Court or a Judge Dossberg Court. It's THE court. And I would emphasize that each person who works here, from the judges to the intake clerk to the copy person, is important and must work in unity to properly serve the litigants. So how can you best structure your calendar to serve them? Our philosophy is the proper resolution of conflicts as the best service we can render. We can best do this by cooperation, offering an opportunity to settle, and by adhering to reasonable time limits.  If you serve in a multi-judge district, I would first suggest you need to be cooperative with your colleagues. The judges should meet frequently to discuss ways of reaching consistency and uniformity among them. In our district, we have worked hard at being consistent and uniform where possible. In fact, about the only matter that we haven't reached in accord in is in the coffee we drink, and I take a stronger position with regard to coffee. We routinely sign orders for each other. When you're holding court out of town or you're taking a few days off, the lawyers continue to send in motions. These motions deserve a proper ruling. By signing orders for each other, we eliminate the stacks of files for review when we return to office. And when a judge to whom the case is assigned can't hear the parties as quickly as desirable, one of the other judges in the court will hear the matter for him. Now it's easy to get accustomed to this when you adopt the theory that the case is the court's case, not my case. Another way we cooperate is in reaching our written decisions. Although it may not be practical in a large court, we circulate our written decisions to the other judges and staff attorneys for review. The three of us have been highly fortunate to have enticed high quality practitioners as career law clerks, so we refer to these people as staff attorneys because we think the term law clerk doesn't reflect for contribution to the court. In any event, each of the staff attorneys and judges critique the opinion. We want to be sure that we are correct and that the other judges will follow the decision. The best way to encourage forum shopping by lawyers is for a colleague to refuse to follow the decisions. So it's critical that a judge in a multi-judge district agree to follow these opinions, reached by majority vote, even if it conflicts with their own personal ideas. Who else should a judge drive to be cooperative with? How about the clerk of the court? It'd be easy for a judge, and particularly a new judge, to become so accustomed to everyone calling him or her judge and almost jumping at any command issued by the judge to begin to think that you are more important than the other people with whom you work. Don't fall into this trap if you intend to be happy in your job very long because you'll rise and fall like a one-egg custard. Work hard at keeping your ego in check. Each person in the clerk's office is just as important to the operation of the system as you, the judge, are. Because of budgetary reasons, our clerk's office shrank from 45 people to 36 in one year's time. Now just imagine how much more difficult the operation of that office would have been if the three judges in our district had separate procedures relative to motions, hearings, and trials. Perhaps one of the more innovative elements of our cooperation with the clerk's office and yet one of the simplest innovations I can think of is a common signing table. Our signing table is located in the corner of the clerk's office. Our files are segregated and stacked on the table for our review when we have time. A short walk for each of the judges from our respective offices to the signing table saves so many hours of clerk's time over the course of a year and trucking all the files up and down the hall to our chambers. The common signing table also has great benefit for the judges. Just outside the door are the workstations of all the case administrators. It's so easy if the judge has a question about a file to merely step outside the office and ask the case administrator responsible for that particular file. This location also gives the judge and the deputies the opportunity to get to know each other. It shows the deputies they are really an integral part of the bankruptcy court. By having all the files on the same table, it's very easy for one judge to sign another judge's orders. A final benefit of the signing table to the judge is that his or her office doesn't become cluttered with all the files that flow through the system on a daily basis. Cooperation with the United States trustee is important to your calendar management. That office can be of great assistance in moving your cases and resolving problems. Bankruptcy Rule 9003B allows communications between the court and the United States trustee to discuss general problems of administration and improvement of the system. Finally, you should be cooperative with the bar. The lawyers can make your life happy or very miserable. You might consider establishing a court liaison committee composed of lawyers and U.S. trustee. This is a good way of learning the fears and the problems of the bar and the court. True honesty in these meetings will benefit both. The next area of calendar management I'd like to discuss is giving the parties an opportunity to reach an agreement among themselves. Of course, not all matters should be settled. For instance, if a crook gets caught with his hand in a cookie jar, you may really want to try that 727 action. Our court requires each person filing a motion to tender a proposed order. Occasionally an order will not accompany the motion or the motion may be deficient in some other way. An example would be if the motion refers to exhibits being attached and there are in fact no exhibits. It would be a waste of everyone's time to schedule such a motion for a hearing. Through the cooperative efforts of the clerk and the judges, we developed a document entitled Memorandum of Noncompliance, which for clerk routinely returns to the person filing the motion. It highlights the deficiency and gives 7 days for curing it. It's great assistance in moving matters timely without taking precious calendar time. It's also a good teaching mechanism for new or inexperienced attorneys. Motions to terminate, modify, annul, or condition to stay occupy an inordinate amount of calendar time in some jurisdictions. Once, while assisting colleagues in another circuit, I was handed a 27-page docket. The entire docket was composed of motions to terminate the stay. No opportunity had been given but data to respond to the motion as all motions were routinely set for hearing. I was momentarily overwhelmed by the number of pages, but upon taking the bench, I soon learned that the lawyers were eager to tender agreed orders. Why should clients occur additional legal expense by paying an attorney to appear in court on a routine motion to terminate the stay when the parties are agreeable to working out the matter? In most jurisdictions, Chapter 7 cases represent the overwhelming number of cases. Motions to terminate the stay probably represent an overwhelming number of motions in Chapter 7 cases. Our clerk's office sends out a notice for objection to the debtor, the debtor's counsel, the trustee, and the attorney for the movement on every motion to terminate the stay in Chapter 7 case. This is done routinely and the judge never sees the motion until the end of the 15 days allowed for objections. If no objection is filed, the file would be placed on the judge's table for a judge's signature on the order terminating the stay. Only if an objection is filed is the matter set for a hearing. And I might add this is done by the clerk without the judge ever seeing the file. We experimented with the same procedure in Chapters 11, 12, and 13, but we found that those debtors would oppose virtually every motion to terminate the stay. Therefore, the clerk automatically sets motions to terminate the stay for hearings in Chapters 11, 12, and 13. Occasionally, I've heard speakers single out a particular motion or pleading as being a very powerful weapon in their arsenal. Well, a judge engaging in calendar management finds a very powerful weapon in 11 USC, Section 1021. That section of the code provides that the words after notice in a hearing or any similar phrase means notice and opportunity for a hearing. It authorizes an act without an actual hearing if notice was given and if the hearing is not requested timely by a party in interest. If you really feel your job requires you to sit on the bench hour after hour, day after day, then disregard Section 1021 and merely set every motion that comes in for a hearing. Unless you view your job in that light, I would urge you to consider sending out notice of most motions to the interested parties, giving them the opportunity to object. If an objection is filed, then the matter can be set for a hearing. On the other hand, if no objection is filed, the judge can review the motion and if the relief is proper, the order can be signed. Examples of motions that we give interested parties an opportunity to object to are as follows. Applications for employment of professionals, applications for compensation, applications for allowance of administrative expense, motions to consolidate, motions to sell property, motions to redeem property, motions to avoid lend, motions to enlarge time for filing adversary proceedings, agreed motions for use of cash collateral. Some motions, such as motions to dismiss filed by a creditor in all cases and by the debtor in Chapter 7 and 11, motions to terminate the stay in Chapters 11, 12, and 13, motions for hardship discharge in Chapter 13, objections to claims, and show cause for failure to obey a court order, including the non-compliance memos mentioned above, should, by the very nature, be set for hearing. How will you structure your calendar to conduct these hearings? In establishing your trial and other court calendar, it's important to consider not only the attorneys who practice in the courts, but also the courtroom deputies from the clerk's office and the court reporter. Remember, each time you call a court reporter to court, even for only five minutes, the court must pay for at least one-half day of that court reporter's time. Because of these reasons, as well as for your own convenience, you should consider setting your courtroom time in blocks of one-half day. Many of you also serve in an outlying location. In a faulty judge court, you should travel on an alternating schedule so that at least one judge is always at the primary place of holding court. I think judges traveling to an out-of-town court should establish these dates first and then structure the primary calendar around these periods. I'm firmly convinced that lawyers in the outlying locations have the right to see a judge more often than once a month. Important matters can arise that cause an undue hardship if a judge visits only on a monthly basis. Therefore, I prefer to make the trip twice a month. Every court, of course, will be different in that some judges never serve outside the home office, while other judges may travel several hundreds of miles. As you can see from the calendar, I travel the second and fourth week of each month to Paducah. I recommend reserving one out-of-town day for motions with the remaining three days being used primarily for evidentiary hearings and trials. I reserve the first trip of each month and the first day of the second trip for these evidentiary hearings and trials, holding the motions until the last day. Frequently, all trial matters will settle, and this will free a day to review the motion files for the final day. My docket days in Louisville are primarily Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays. Again, it's important for the judges to confer so as to avoid setting the motion day for the same day. Obviously, a lawyer can't be in two different courtrooms at the same time, so this is an important consideration to bear in mind in establishing your calendar days. When I first came to the bench, each motion that was scheduled for a hearing was given a designated time. With the first hearing beginning at 9 a.m., perhaps the next hearing was at 9.10, then 9.20, then 9.30. I soon found this method lacked efficiency as I was continually leaving the bench for a few minutes and then returning for short hearings. It didn't take long to abandon this procedure in favor of setting a block of motions on the 9.30 docket and another block at 10.30. My colleagues and I prefer to block similar motions at the same time, and over time you'll learn to estimate the number of motions you can hear in an hour. For instance, we wouldn't want to schedule more than three or four hearings in Chapter 11 disclosure statements for a one-hour block, but on the other hand you can hear 15 to 20 routine stay motions during that same one-hour time. A hearing on the confirmation of a plan in a Chapter 11 case can usually be concluded in 15 to 30 minutes if the plan has been accepted by the vote of the classes. If the cram down is necessary, we will set it for hearing at a later date, usually on the afternoon of motion day, and allocate the appropriate length of time that the attorneys feel the matter will take. Fridays are reserved for pretrial conferences. I prefer to conduct them telephonically as I view this as one other way litigants can save money while the case is proceeding through the court. I usually schedule six to eight pretrials per hour, and I give the parties a firm trial date while we're on the telephone. My two colleagues and I share the same philosophy that a judge should take an active hand in moving the case along. Our clerk sends a scheduling order to the plaintiff's attorney along with the summons immediately after the adversary proceeding is filed. The plaintiff's lawyer then serves the summons and the scheduling order at the same time. You will note the very first thing in the order is the scheduling of a telephonic pretrial conference. The scheduling order also directs the parties to meet and confer within 15 days after the answer is filed. We were requiring this even prior to the adoption of bankruptcy rule 7026F, but that rule now gives specific authority for this procedure. Ten days after the settlement conference report, the parties are directed to complete and sign bankruptcy rule 7026A disclosures. Finally, the parties are given 45 days after the filing of an answer to complete all discovery. In the vast majority of routine adversary proceedings, 45 days is enough. This tight scheduling never allows an adversary proceeding to be placed on the back burner by a lawyer. Their clients' rights are important, and it should be adjudicated properly. During the pretrial conference, we give the parties a trial date certain that will usually be within one to two months from the date of the conference. In this way, an adversary proceeding can finally be adjudicated within five months from the filing date. A look at the number of adversary proceedings filed nationwide per year in relation to the number of cases under all chapters nationwide each year will tell you that you should expect to have about 79 adversary proceedings filed per 1,000 cases in your district. Again, on a national basis, of all the adversary proceedings filed, only 10% are actually tried. Therefore, we've learned through experience to deep-set trials. I generally set four half-day trials for the same period of time. All the lawyers involved understand their case has been stacked, and this certainly encourages settlement. There are exceptions to the general theory, of course, and if the trial is really going to take a week and you know the odds are very great that the trial will actually occur, you simply have to allocate enough juridical days to hear the matter. In the structure of my calendar, I can get three consecutive days without any difficulty, being Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. If the case will take longer than that, we usually break on Wednesday afternoon and resume on Monday morning. I don't know about your district, but in man, trials of three or more days are rare indeed. After the pretrial telephonic conference, the courtroom deputy prepares the order for trial, and this is usually signed, entered, and mailed on the afternoon following the pretrial conference. Remember, up to this point, we've pushed the case at a rate of speed that doesn't give the lawyers time to forget all about the case. This same philosophy continues in the order for the trial. As I stated earlier, the trial would usually be held four to eight weeks after the pretrial conference. Therefore, the attorneys must begin to think about the case soon after the pretrial conference. The trial order provides for 15 days prior to trial. The attorneys provide a list of witnesses to the other attorneys in the court, and a list of exhibits must be produced for inspection by the opposing parties. Then 10 days before the trial, the parties are to file and serve a memorandum of law setting forth the issues in question, a brief summary of what the evidence will tend to prove, and any case authorities or statutes in support of the party's positions. Five days before the trial, any objection to the admissibility of an exhibit must be filed or the exhibit will be deemed admitted. The teeth in this order is the provision that if the party fails to disclose information as required without substantial justification, the evidence or witness will not be admitted or heard. The final provision is that failure to comply with the order may result in dismissal of the case or other appropriate sanction. We use this same scheduling order for evidentiary hearings. About four or five days prior to the schedule of trial, my staff attorney will call all the lawyers in the case to inquire about settlement. Unless the parties are fairly confident that the case will settle, the staff attorney then reviews the memorandum filed by the parties, and we discuss the matter. If we have questions in our minds that requires additional research that can be done prior to the trial. I can't overemphasize how important it is for the court to be well-prepared and informed as to the facts, issues, and law before the trial actually begins. This allows the court to have a clear and efficient focus during the trial. The judge already knows the facts he should focus upon, and it's always much easier to try a case when you don't have to figure it out while the evidence is being presented. Also, a knowledge of the case prior to the trial allows the court to guide the lawyers when they tend to stray from the primary issues. Remember, you need to keep the case moving. You can direct the attorneys at any time by asking questions or by advising the attorney of the information that you're interested in hearing. This approach is of great assistance to the judge in being able to rule from the bench rather than taking the matter under submission. At the conclusion of the trial, you're required by bankruptcy rule 7052 to find the facts specifically and state separately the conclusions of law. If at all possible, you should avoid taking the case under submission. Rather, you should take whatever break is necessary to formulate your ideas and then announce your findings of fact and conclusions of law from the bench. This could be 15 minutes or two days, and it can be done telephonically. Many years ago, I learned that the litigation is usually the most important thing going on in the person's life at that very moment. The parties indeed appreciate a prompt ruling by the court so they can get on with their lives and put the matter behind them. I'm sure that each judge will maintain his or her own system of research. The system we use in our district allows us to search for database by using keywords, statute numbers, name of judge, year of decision, or any combination. I mentioned earlier that we circulate our opinions among the other judges for approval before they're entered. Once they are entered, they're also entered into the research data bank along with all bankruptcy cases from our district court, our circuit court, and the United States Supreme Court from 1978 forward. The database also includes bankruptcy code and the rules. This information is available at the bench to me by computer. Having this information close at hand enables the court to rule consistently in similar fact patterns. It also allows the court to adequately address the law of the case and organize fashion by merely pulling language from a prior opinion. Remember, it's not necessary to reinvent the wheel each time you issue a decision. If you do take the matter under submission, however, keep it moving and issue your decision as soon as possible, preferably within a week or two. By doing this, you'll never have a case reported on the dreaded quarterly report published by your court of appeals. Up to this point in the discussion, you'll know that I've carefully avoided saying much about Chapter 13 cases. In our district, there are approximately 4,200 Chapter 13 cases pending, and each year there are about 1,500 filed. We found it more efficient for the court and also better received by the bar to rotate the entire Chapter 13 case load from judge to judge on an annual basis. The judge responsible for the Chapter 13 docket will allocate about four days per month while in Louisville to hear Chapter 13 matters. However, each others will continue to hear Chapter 13 matters in the divisional offices. In Louisville, the day in open court usually starts at 9 o'clock show-caused docket in the Chapter 13 cases. Here, debtors who have not been making their payments are called before the court to give their reasons for the delinquency and their proposals for catching up the payments to the trustee. The judge will often hear 30 to 50 of these in that hour. The motion docket will begin at 10.30, and at that time all motions except motions to terminate the stay will be heard. In the afternoon, the stay docket will be heard at 1.30 and at 3 o'clock. The court conducts telephonic hearings on motions to terminate the stay in those cases arising in the divisional offices. A Chapter 13 debtor is a person who is working and can ill afford to miss any more work than absolutely necessary. Therefore, following the first meeting of creditors held by the trustee on Wednesdays in our district, we hold the confirmation hearings beginning at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. The only debtors who are required to attend are those proposing a plan of repayment less than 70% and those who have an objection filed to their plan. Otherwise, upon recommendation of the trustee, the order of confirmation will be entered. By local rule, you can reduce substantially the amount of time you might otherwise sit on the bench. One area that necessitated a large amount of judicial time was motions to terminate the stay on an automobile because of failure to have insurance. Our local rules committee, which was comprised of representatives from the debtors and creditors bar in each chapter recommended and the court adopted a local rule that dramatically reduced our stay docket by informing the debtors of the requirements and telling creditors what they can do. This rule requires the debtor to furnish proof of insurance for at least 90 days after the date of a Section 341 meeting. It allows a maximum deductible of $500. Failure to furnish proof of insurance is presumed to mean that no insurance is in effect and the stay is deemed terminated. While this rule could be beneficial in chapters 11 and 12, its primary focus was in chapter 13 cases. Another local rule which reduced tremendously our motion docket is relative to the abandonment of property. About 96% of all chapter 7 cases in the nation and in our district are no asset cases. Percenture of our local rule, the notice of the Section 341 meeting states that the last day for filing an objection to the abandonment of property is 30 days from the first date set for the Section 341 meeting. If no objections are filed within this 30-day period and the trustee has filed his report of no distribution, the property shall be deemed abandoned. Trustees are required to file the report of no distribution at the end of 30 days, so motions for abandonment occupy very little of our time. While there isn't any direct impact on the calendar structure of a judge, our interpretation of bankruptcy rule 2002E relative to filing proofs of claim eliminates a lot of unnecessary work by the clerk and thereby frees the case administrators for more important matters. It also saves trees. Pursuant to our court's reading of that rule, each notice of the Section 341 meeting states that the case is a no asset case and that proofs of claims shall not be filed. If at a later date the trustee discovers assets from which a dividend can be paid, a notice is then given that the case is an asset case and that proofs of claim shall be filed within 90 days. There are certainly other innovative ways to better control your calendar, so don't be afraid to experiment. You'll never learn whether there are better ways to structure your calendar without trying different approaches. If you decide a new approach is a mistake, you can always go back to the old system or try a third way. I think it's advisable to establish your calendar on a yearly basis and then try to leave it alone so that lawyers will know your docket days and the types of matters you hear on various days. Always structure your calendar anticipating that filings will increase. Remember, filings each year are like a box of chocolates. You never know how many you'll get. In closing, let me again emphasize that you should always make an effort to stay off the bench and to encourage the parties to settle their differences. You should always be courteous to and consider the impact of your calendar upon the attorneys, your colleagues, the clerk's office, and the court reporter. Don't forget, the court could be equated to a large piece of machinery. If it's well-oiled and all pieces are functioning properly, the end result will be reached more quickly and with fewer problems. If any cog in the machine breaks or if any employee in the court fails to recognize the unity of the court, the end product will suffer. Our end product is the dispensing of justice to those who come before us. We must always remember that each person involved in the process is just as important as we are. If we adhere to that policy, justice will not be delayed or denied. Indeed, the last sentence of bankruptcy in the real 1001 will be accomplished. Good luck with your calendar. Thank you for your time.


d miles away clouds you absolutely cannot it's just impossible you got it just got this notification bunzai master thanks for following us on tiktok as i mentioned folks our tiktok link is in the description box we are shooting for a thousand as we'll be able to then livestream our debates there which will get us a ton of new exposure as we are determined to provide a neutral platform so that everybody can make their case on a level playing field at modern day debate this one coming in from do appreciate your question alternate cac says simulations of flat earth proved at a high point you could view anywhere on the flat earth using a telescope in reality you can't because of the curve iron horse yeah again they just um confusing the fact of convergence with curvature but the first thing you see with perspective is that everything beneath you ramps upwards and so depending upon your viewing height you will always have this convergence factor and that is why the horizon is always going to be at eye level because everything above that is converging down and we can't see through the stuff beneath us we can see through the air a certain distance but eventually you're gonna reach to such a height that the horizon itself just becomes completely obscure in atmospheric gases and so forth and light and fog and mist and all that sort of stuff we can't see through so of course you can't see forever it's a silly thing to assume that you would be able to maybe with some infrared you can see a lot further but you certainly won't see forever you got it thank you very much for this question coming in from two seconds where'd i put this this was a standard question from earlier gg said iron do you have any scientific experiment or publish paper that can verify what you're saying thanks james thank you g well you know i think a lot of this stuff we're still in the process of um publishing you know like the flat earth awakening has only been going on for probably a decade at the most whereas we've been believing in the the spaceball or the spherical earth for 2500 years we haven't believed it was actually moving until about 500 years ago and the fact that the the people now have got enough intelligence to realize the nonsense of all of those things about the curvature of water and the spinning speeds and all that sort of stuff means we've had about a decade so we're getting pretty close to coming up with scientific papers to prove where we stand on but honestly we're getting peer reviewed right here right now this is peer review and um if anybody has better evidence that we are actually spinning and hurt them through space and i'd love to see it i mean that's what marxie boy hasn't provided a thing actually the um flat earth society started in 1884 so it's been around for like over 200 years and hasn't produced what yeah but we don't see them as actually an authority we see them as controlled opposition so it's easier to present your own opposition before the opposition presents itself and then present pretend that you are that opposition than it is to actually allow it to happen organically as it's happened in this last in this last decade we've produced a hair cover lock juicy to say the least what want to say my dear friends we appreciate all of you being here whether you be flat earth glober you name it one last question polarity said convergence wouldn't be relevant with a telescope also james you look like an attractive version of robbie rotten i appreciate that i'm gonna google robbie rotten but go ahead wasn't that the um the guy on that children's show in canada um didn't didn't he die i think i think he died of cancer yeah oh yeah yeah this guy i've seen yeah yeah okay i thought it was the name of the show lazy town was lazy town or something right what i'm gonna say about small minds discuss people and great minds discuss ideas um what was the idea again that he's asking about convergence using a telescope and that all that the telescope is going to do same as his zoom lens is it's only on a magnify what is actually visible in front of the viewer so the only way that you can improve upon what is actually there is to get higher and as we have discovered as we get higher we can see further whereas if it was actually curvature in the first place getting higher you know if we're looking at it from a ball and we're going away from the center of the ball actually on backwards further away from it we're not going forwards and over the curve to see what's over so getting higher you have to go phenomenally higher before you would see even a tiny bit more but the fact that we can just go a little bit higher and see a heck of a lot more and a little bit higher and see a heck of a lot more proves the earth is flat not curved actually you can you can sort of see past convergence with a telescope anybody that's aimed binoculars down a road says you can see further then you know it's just this this claim is ridiculous it's you're magnifying what's in the convergence point absolutely but you're not going to see further you're going to see what's already there and able to be seen you're just proving that angular size is a thing affected by our eyesight because we can only see so much with our physical eyes if we magnify it sure we will see more it doesn't again that proves it's not curvature because if it was curvature all you would see is the curve you wouldn't see you still can't see from like England to Spain that was the whole point of that person's super chat like you no matter how far you magnify you never comes into sight because you're not high enough because convergence is a thing but you're undoing convergence with magnification that makes zero sense because you can see further if you magnify that image but you never see those objects you should be able to on flat earth that's the whole thing you can only see to a degree that the magnification isn't infinite and the further things get the smaller they appear no matter how much so the things in front are still going to appear bigger so they're still going to obscure the things further because they will appear smaller no matter how much you magnify the things in front are still going to get in the way this one coming in from two seconds I don't know if you guys can tell I'm like so wiped out someone said in chat that I'm high I'm not high I promise but I am really I might as well be because I'm so tired for some reason I think my behind horses I think that's iron horse are you high I wish I was okay I believe it this I told iron horse I said clothing required for tonight's debate as I think a lot of you yes it was one of my demands I demanded on a fairly close debate allegedly someone in the last debate saw more than they bargained for when you were in your hot tub debating polarity we we uh we put ourselves in the twitch maybe you should wrap up with some sperm and make maybe get some firmament wrapped around you polarity says if telescopes don't affect conversions then why claim ships at horizon after zoom that's what you guys claim brings ships back into view so what was the first part of that again James they said ships on rising if telescopes don't affect conversions then why claim ships at the horizon after zoom then they say that's what you guys claim brings ships back into view they do yeah yeah because I mean the zooms we have today are quite impressive and they can do some amazing things to bring things into view that the naked eye simply cannot see and so it's only because of the confusion of what people used to see with the naked eye they've assumed it was curvature in the first place so the zoom actually proves it's not curvature it is convergence I want to get shirts made you know if someone wants to sponsor me to make shirts I will have convergence not curvature that I think that's the greatest saying ever it is convergence not curvature this one coming in from I think that's all we have let me just double check just to be sure I don't want to miss any but I want to say my dear friends thank you so much I'm pretty wiped out and we're gonna let these guys go it's been about two and a half hours so if you have not already folks you can check out our guest links in the description box both Iron Horse and Mark Reed are linked in the description box below here on YouTube as well as at the podcast so if you're listening via podcast which is available via Spotify, Apple podcast, podcast addict, Google we're on every single podcast app you can find us and you can find our guest links there at the modern day debate podcast as well I want to say James sorry to interrupt I'm gonna head over to the modern day debate discord after this so yeah just gonna mention that if you want to join me over there more than welcome to I'm gonna head over there yeah thank you muted me by the way so as Mark would know because he's one of the moderators there who muted me in the first place thanks Mark.  Surgeon General just shared the link for the discord in the live chat as well I just pinned that so I highly encourage you folks check out our discord if you haven't already hopefully hopefully you feel welcome there and we hope you feel welcome here. Absolutely.  Yeah I wonder why. We don't want to know any more about this so we want to say hope you feel welcome whether you be flat earth globe earth you name it we're glad that you are here thanks so much for being with us and I'll be back in just a moment for a really brief post-credits scene letting you know about upcoming debates and events as we are planning our in-person conference debate con part three our debate conference is going to be in April it's going to be huge so stick around and I'll tell you more detail about that. Thanks very much for hosting games it was. Thanks. Thank you guys both iron horse and mark and thanks folks for watching I'll be right back in just a moment. Ladies and gentlemen want to say thanks so much for all of your support if you have not yet hit that like button we have 415 people watching and we have we're only three likes away from 200 so we're at 197 likes we can totally get those last three come on 415 people watching want to say thanks for your support if you also want more people to see this debate I'm not exaggerating by hitting the like button more people will probably see this debate the reason is the more likes and engagement like comments everything else that this video gets the boost you could say the higher or the bigger boost it gets when it's ranked in the youtube search results so if somebody types in the word debate let's say temporarily this video may pop up with enough enough likes it may pop up in like the top five so that does help as a lot of people are searching the word debate on youtube that's common and want to say thanks for coming by coffee breath I see you there in the old live chat says I just want to say I didn't know nicotine lozenges existed until I heard about it on this channel the next day I bought some and quit smoking after trying to quit for years wow I'm so glad that like that's so cool I'm encouraged that that's been helpful for you seriously that's really cool and glad to have you here coffee breath as well as gamble good to see you James let me see I just lost you James GP thanks for coming by as well as monkey pox survivor Michael lion one nation underground west flat earth and thanks for coming by sit down as well as live music let me see if I can make this page bigger there we go Kevin Howe glad to have you with us as well as Chad Roybal glad that you were here as well as Joe mama happy to have you happy to have you back as well as mad pie man thanks for dropping in andre balas thanks for coming by roast potato good to see you again as well as iron horse thanks for coming by you see you there in the old live chat talking smack of course sit down thanks for coming by as well as a bellis UA thanks for coming by hope you're well but you want to say thanks for your support seriously san Pedro thanks for being subscribers you guys seriously that really does mean a lot human girl good to see you soy guzzler we hope that you're all doing well thanks for all of your support we're excited that we're on the cusp of 90,000 subscribers so within like several days I'm thinking probably by the 13th we will hit by the 13th of this month in other words about six days from now not even probably more like four days because we actually heard a surge in subscribers from this debate actually we will hit because we had like 50 in the last like two hours 50 new subscribers so that's let's like really big so thanks for subscribing folks we really do appreciate it our goal is to provide a neutral platform so that everybody has their chance to make their case on a level playing field we have a podcast we are on multiple platforms including twitch we are working on getting on tiktok we do have a couple of little snippet videos on tiktok but we want to livestream our debates there that's the big goal for us because making snippets is just a little bit challenging we love live streaming though that's for sure but yes want to say thanks for all of your support you guys it's crazy that we will hit 90,000 subscribers in several days join us while we're small though because for real and I don't mean small isn't under 90,000 I mean small is in in the long run we are shooting for the hundreds of thousands we are very confident that we can do that because we really believe that people on youtube are looking for a neutral platform where everybody can hear everybody make their case on a level playing field we think that's important we know that you think it's important and we're excited about the future as we continue to improve this channel and want to say thanks for all of your support seriously you guys it means more than you know I check on one thing that helps is somebody said in the chat today hey James like I think that your guys's channel should be a lot bigger for how long you've been doing this and I think they're right I and they said it might be that youtube recognizes that you're doing these controversial it might be the algorithm recognizes you're doing these controversial topics flat earth believe it or not is a little bit controversial in the sense that youtube actually puts their little like disclaimer underneath all of our flat earth debates where it's like flat earth you know the topic and then they basically put their position forward we at modern day debate don't do that we want it to be fully neutral so we don't even take a stance on the flat earth or the globe earth like we're radically like hey we're going to give everybody a shot it's not about my opinions we want the debaters to be the spotlight under the spotlight on this channel but want to say it might be that yeah maybe it is that youtube does maybe its algorithm is kind of designed so that it kind of doesn't give our channel quite as much as exposure as it could in terms of recommended channels so consider this if you haven't yet consider sharing this debate see right there as it says on the bottom right of the screen share this debate with a friend if you click that little arrow and it's got this little button below the video that's playing right now it's got a little arrow just like the one that you saw on screen and it says share you can share I don't know if you've ever done this before but yeah you could click on copy the link and you could text it to a friend who likes these goofy topics or whatever it might be and you can say hey check out this channel they're a neutral channel they're trying to give everybody a fair shot it's pretty cool that third party testimony goes way further than if I were to do that right because if people are like oh James like you started modern day debate so of course you'd say it's cool but if you do it it really does have a lot more weight a lot more credibility is a lot more persuasive the other thing is yeah you can basically you can share it anywhere so if you want to click on share and then you click twitter it'll bring you right over to twitter and it's so convenient it'll basically have for example in a tweet when I click the twitter button after I click share it'll bring me to a tweet that has a link to this very video and it says via youtube so pretty cool stuff you can conveniently share this you can share it I see a lot of a lot of the places that we do get shares is people share them in discord or they share them in twitter threads or facebook pages or I also see a lot of other stuff like what's that reddit is that where the young people are nowadays I see reddit I've seen some of these more controversial websites like I think it's called 4chan I've seen that so wherever people are sharing it I've got to be honest I'm like hey share it wherever you want that's what we care about is we we're not ashamed about wanting to grow like we frankly want to grow why because we think we're doing something important that it's something valuable that it's meaningful namely providing a level playing field so that everybody can make their case on a neutral debate platform a lot of these youtube channels they're like oh yeah yeah we're neutral we're like a debate channel but then they also have like many videos that'll come out afterwards and it'll be like oh man like for example with tonight's debate if they came out with a video afterwards and it was like oh man the flatterther or the globerther was so stupid and it's like well I don't know how neutral of a channel that is maybe the moderation might be neutral that could be but is the channel really neutral if you've got these aftershows that blasts one of the guests it's like I don't see that as very neutral modern day debate believes and I think you all agree with us that youtube deserves a better class of debate channel and we're going to give it to them my dear friends we appreciate your support my alliance is James I really appreciate you brother even though you're not flat earth sending love thanks for that support man seriously it means a lot and we hope you feel welcome like I said for real whether you be flat earth or globerther I've got friends that are globers I got friends that are flatters they called flatters I don't know but what do you guys call yourselves flat earth or you just call yourselves flat earthers right I know you don't call yourselves flurfs right because that's supposed to be like a that's the equivalent equivalent of like a globe head fluff and globe head or like names you guys used to antagonize each other but what to say thanks for your support gamble thanks for your kind words seriously it means more than you know and yeah I got to tell you though we're excited one big pond good to see you there in the live chat as well as Hobbs thanks for coming by man I should get some good sleep tonight I killed Earl I see you there in the old live chat again thanks for coming back we're glad you're back and then let's see here ring wraith thanks for coming by says modern day debate one million subs by the end of 2023 I don't know if that's going to happen although I've got to tell you we are working there are some debates that we've been working on for so long and we're going to keep working on it like we're persevering like even if we get a no and they're like no I can't work right now we're like all right we'll come back in a few months and they're like no still can't work all right we'll come back in a few months so we're very patient like we're we never like burn a bridge I'm always very careful like oh you don't want to do it now like it's okay not a big deal and then come back a few months later it seems like a long time but it's like oh it's gonna be here before you know it so we are very patient in terms of trying to set up these big debates and we do have some that oh man we had one that would have been we're still working on it though so don't worry don't give up hope it may still happen we had one that if we can get this set up it will it will shake the foundations of the online debate world period so like online debate world like beyond youtube beyond podcast like just every platform would be like oh my gosh you hear about what happened so we are excited about the future we've got some big stuff we're working on and that includes our suite let's see iron horse this can you drop the link again please that's pinned at the top of the chat it's uh right here surgeon general put it there and I pinned his 24 seven flat earth discord hit man thanks for coming by says I take it the after show is just mark talking about iron horse let's see and belittling him and not asking people to ask questions I don't know you've got to go there and I doubt that that's what it is because they have told me like hey this is a neutral discord as well and so so I would go there and I would say I trust that the moderators will give you a fair shot but it is true that if you break the rules like we've got to have rules to some extent so for example like we're not going to let somebody say the n word in our youtube live chat like we don't allow that or not going to we would never read that as a super chat that's something that we follow the terms of service of youtube we follow the rules and the reason is because even though I'm big on free speech and I'm like hey if people want to say whatever they want to say like let a thousand flowers bloom we think that the more enlightened message will win out over messages that might be depraved or degenerate nonetheless despite me being a big free speech person we also have to be practical we have to be shrewd we have to be clever we have to be wise and realize that youtube is a marketing machine a finely tuned marketing machine and it's how we've grown it's how the podcast has become I mean now it's like I think we're averaging about 3000 downloads per show now which is great this great growth for a podcast that gets doing well and especially yeah so it's like not only that but youtube about to hit 90 000 subs huge youtube is the reason I mean they're like I said a great marketing machine and so we play by the rules because we don't want to saw off the branch that we're sitting on in order to do this channel right that just wouldn't make sense let's see human girl says you're still studying james yes I still have about 10 months I plan on defending my dissertation within 10 months and once the dissertation is defended that means I'm a free bird and I am Dr. James so within Lord willing by the end of the year I'll be Dr. James I'll be done with this doctoral program and I love the program don't get me wrong but I'm also excited to move on to new things so appreciate you asking as well as good to see a night vision society thanks for coming by as well as Saito Nav Saito Nav will probably be I don't want to volunteer him for it but I'm sure there will be people in the discord such as Saito Nav or people like him that'll make sure that everybody gets a fair shot so don't worry folks like it's not going to be someone in chat saying that it's going to be just mark belittling and you know like I don't I uh I think it's going to be fair so fentanyl Floyd good to see you back here big pine sailing thanks for coming by glad that you dropped in TV makes them do it thanks for coming by I see you there in the old live chat and living room speakers you my boy I hope you're doing well Kayem thanks for coming by appreciate you being here I draw stuff good to see you there happy to have you with us and Kevin howl thanks for being here yeah I'm pumped it's going to be so cool to finish up this program because I love it don't get me wrong I'm thankful I've had a good advisor and that's like the trick to like having a good PhD experience so I'm thankful for my advisor at the same time it's been uh what is it now four and a half years at least I started and yeah so it's it's getting to be I'm like okay now I'm ready to be done so I am excited to be done and it'll be good it'll be fun and it'll be cool to like move on and do new things I'm thinking I might go into consulting maybe do a little bit of that just to get some experience at it especially because I think that'll help me run modern day debate because I do want to do modern day debate full time that's my goal down the road I think I probably want to teach for a while do some consulting for a while and then do modern day debate full time so my alliance has been here for a while James I hope you remember me I've seen yeah your name I recognize your name so thanks for being here for a with us for such a long time a lot of you guys have been here for a long time you've been here with us for years which is crazy isn't it so I just turned 36 by the way that was like two days ago by the way Bob I I got your voicemail the second voicemail I should say thank you guys for that voicemail appreciated that that happy birthday voicemail the second one where it's both of you so seriously that means a lot night vision society says James skipping over me I don't know what did you say did I miss it did you say something naughty I honestly didn't see it kk westbury good to see you thanks for coming by pure rossy gold thanks for being here thanks to our mods they do keep they do keep the chat good and controlled and they're you know don't get me wrong we like people to have freedom we don't want people to feel like they're walking on eggshells and I think we do a pretty good job of that where it's kind of like pretty easy going but you know if somebody's coming in and they look like they're just trying to like target somebody like they're just trying to be malicious it's like eh like we got to draw the line somewhere and so we'll give you a we try to give warnings I mean if it's really you know depending on how bad it is like for example I can tell you that if you ever said the n word in chat like it's just an instant ban there's no like warning for that because you probably live in civilized society and probably know that's not okay already bond says cool to see modern day to be modern day to be growing so much I remember when it was modern day hysteria that's right channel used to be called modern day hysteria and then we changed it it was like that for actually it was like several years I was doing to like videos of my own that were just like opinion videos and I deleted them when I started the debate channel but yeah it was like this channel used to be that's why it's so old like this channel was like started if you look at the about page let me see what it says here I think it says like 2014 2016 and that's because for like about a year I would upload videos they were just opinion videos and then like position videos and then so yeah so it's like 2016 april I started it in the spring I remember that it was in Lubbock, Texas I was living in when I started it and then it was eventually though I kind of like I hosted debates to just get more because debates are fun and they draw more attention to the channel and I realized it's like why is like people love debates it's like I don't just do a debate channel and especially because I thought hey it'd be really cool to do like a fully fair channel because not all of them are thanks just got a notification new tiktok follower of modern day debate thanks for your support Aaron Albrecht thanks so much for following us at tiktok that's linked in the description folks we really do appreciate that seriously it means more than you know so that's pretty cool we are excited as we're growing folks we really are and that's really encouraging we're pumped about that Amanda says love you James thanks Amanda for your support seriously that means a ton I killed Earl says wow we're the same age you serious I killed Earl I don't get it is that like a movie quote or something or a tv show and is it like a it's a meme or a quote from a show Pirazzi Gold says James I thought you were in your 20s because of the whole university thing not long turned not not long turned 38 I don't know what that means I said I said I was 36 not 38 but yeah let's see our dub says modern day hysteria it's right that's old school modern day hysteria that was a fun channel though it was fun like it was the branding was all green if anybody remembers that far back because now modern day debate obviously the branding is blue and black but the branding for that old channel was green we are always put like a green circle with a white M in the middle of it or I should say yeah but anyway let's see Amanda good to see you oh yeah yeah I'm pumped yeah and then Cutty Sobs thanks for coming by says will the debate ever begin let's see seems like a bot but human girl says the lore goes deep he he he he see like a 12 year old girl he let's see don't worry I don't worry it's not a big deal I can make fun of her but it's fun let's see Alma Dixon Cider says just kidding I would never wait what did you say it says what if what if it's the inward without the heart are inward oh I see what you're saying I think that you technically can no joke I'm not exaggerating I think that YouTube actually allows it that you can say you know the n word without a heart are so that it just ends with an a I don't feel like testing like YouTube sound I don't feel like testing that's just from what I've understood someone explained it to me that way it's but I'm not interested in like playing with YouTube over these things just because I think we've got a pretty good reputation with YouTube despite having like topics that they're probably like kind of like could you do something else it's not bad we've only had one strike and it was I appealed it I think it was maybe even just a strike warning and I said hey like you guys like I really weren't breaking the rules with this one and then they overturned it and that was it that was like two years ago maybe so I'll let you guess what the topic was this one let's see certain general says YouTube allows it but it isn't a good idea yeah I don't know if it's oh it's interesting then let's see I killed her all says no just an observation you seem so accomplished that you were older thank you for that I appreciate that support I am I think I probably look old older than my age which doesn't bother me like I'm actually like hey like I can leverage that I feel like one thing I notice I gotta tell you guys it's interesting is if we have two older gentlemen as long as like assuming the same energy and liveliness the same vim as younger guys the the debate with the older guys all things equal we'll get more or or ladies I'm not trying to make a point of the sex the the debate with the older people will get more views I think there is something to the idea of like if you look more distinguished people maybe there's just something to it it has a little it has a positive effect if I have like two all things equal to 18 year olds debating not as many people will watch I think people like to listen to people who like have the same or more life experiences them it's just like a general trend and I can tell you that like the audiences of some streamers like young guys that might be in their 20s or even some guys in their early 30s they're oftentimes like their audiences are way younger like modern day debate has I think our average like is like people in their 30s so but yeah let's see Hobbs says love this channel thank you at modern day debate thanks Hobbs that seriously means a lot and then human human girl says Earl from Jesse Lee Peterson that's funny Earl and T I think that was his name T I can't remember but I've got to go you guys I'm seriously so tired but I want to say thank you guys for your support let me look at this I think this person might be a bot two okay cutty sobs I wonder I you got my you caught my attention as a potential bot I don't know if you are so just to let you know you look like a bot Kevin house is James sweat is sold for testosterone booster thank you for that I did get my testosterone tested because I was worried because I don't get a lot of great sleep grad school is like a it's a bitch frankly like so it's I've got bad sleep I wish I could get good sleep but I just wake up every single night I feel super alert and so I got it tested because I thought oh I might have you know maybe my testosterone is low and what was it basically what happened was it was actually fine it was like in the normal level I think it was a little bit higher than the average so that was good so I was concerned though I was like could it be low because if you want to have like enough testosterone sleep is like maybe your best or most important thing to do so let's see human girl says remember T I do I can't believe you watch Jesse Lee Peterson says oh man I listen to Jesse Lee Peterson I don't know if you guys knew this but human girl has like all of the same views as Jesse Lee Peterson ringwraith says James can you show your play button when you reach 100,000 subs yes I seriously will I'm anticipating we'll probably hit 100,000 subs probably around May of this year yeah this probably probably when we'll hit it and so when we do I'll have to think about like how can we like it'd be cool for me to be able to put it so that it's on screen because we use this blues this you know this green screen effect because it's nice to have the branding there you see the modern like the modern database branding there but I've got to figure out like I definitely do want to it gives a lot of credibility so thanks for your kind words James looks like a strong teenager appreciate that and then let's see Kevin how you look 12 appreciate that human girl says yeah I think 30s I appreciate that 30s worse for me I but like I said I'm I'm pretty I've always looked a little old for my age and I'm like very like I said I'm kind of like it's it's it's easier to be a man and look older than your age like because it's just the strange thing yeah it's just it's not bad like things are going like I generally all things equal I have enjoyed life more as it went on so I'm like very happy to get older and even look older because like I said I think it gives a modern day debate a little bit more authority and I also think that it it also I think having the doctorate will give a good boost to the brand of modern day debate to be honest like I think it'll help that it's like modern day debate hosted by James Dr. James Coons I think that's a good thing we of course have other moderators so I really want ultimately I think it's cool to have that but I think that ultimately we want modern day debate to be bigger than like the James channel I don't want it to be the James channel like at one point I thought about having my picture in the branding like on the channel banner but ultimately we're like you know what we want modern day debate to be like a symbol we want it to be bigger than any individual so that one it makes it cool that we can have these guest mods Amy and Kaz for example who do a fantastic job and also though that like it'll continue on without me hopefully like that's a cool idea is that it's like it's a symbol it's something bigger bigger than any individual and that sense like if it's a symbol it can't really doesn't have the same vulnerabilities as a human or a person so but yeah let's see certain general says did the come the not to the count did the test come back positive for beta you're referring to the testosterone test is it came back as beta I don't I can't be too loud but I don't want to I don't want other people to hear me but let's see I killed it earl says I get I date guys in their 40s and early 50s it definitely wasn't an insult no no don't worry like I'm I'm trying to explain like why men maybe it probably maybe it comes off as like as if I'm like trying to like I'm like trying to explain myself as if I'm like insecure about it but no I'm trying to explain to men like I'm trying to tell men out there that like it's like when I was younger I think I used to be like less excited about looking older for my age if I even do I don't like it like I'm not trying to make a point there but now at this age I'm kind of like no no like this is okay like this is cool but I want to say thank you guys and fine if I don't look older for my age and fine that I don't have that advantage although I like I said I think it can be good but want to say want to say thanks for your support you guys I love you seriously you make this fun we're excited about the future oh my gosh I feel like I'm almost out of out of what's the word I'm almost out of out of breath wait a minute I killed earl is your username referring to earl from Jesse Lee Peterson because I heard that it was earl or tea I heard allegedly died one of them did so I don't know if you guys know this folks on Jesse Lee Peterson's show cut his ups as I guess I'm a bot thanks for the heads up but on Jesse Lee Peterson's show the uh there some of the like typical routine callers that call in and challenge Jesse who human girl is a huge fan of she's like a huge fan of Jesse like she's always like quoting his stuff and saying that like slavery doesn't exist and all that stuff or what is it not slavery racism she says doesn't exist she says both of them never existed she's you know but anyway but yeah anyway does it it really refers to that earl no way fentanyl floyd says yes lol no way is it where is I killed earl says I'm never getting married again and I'm 36 but you're not answering if you are referring to earl from Jesse Lee Peterson let's see cutty sobs look at look at this character in the chat I like you you're you're good I you're entertaining me one nation underground let's see man but I'm poop thank you guys hold on that might be another new follower on tiktok no it's not but let's see here but it is we do have that based okay says I killed earl says no it's from a dixie chick song okay that's based I told everybody hold on what I'm going to do is I'm going to refer everybody to the discord chat so I do encourage you guys if you want to if you got discord check it out check out the modern day debate one that's where mark and everybody went and I want to say thanks for your support thanks for the two of you that are watching over at twitch sorry that I never check in on that I want to say thank you guys I love you guys I'm so tired I hope you have a great rest of your night and I'm looking forward to seeing you at the next debate we for sure will have one on Friday we might have one before that that's kind of like up in the air we're still finding that out but Friday is going to be a good one it's going to be JF versus Daniel Hukicachu so it's going to be pretty cool it'll be too big Daniel Hukicachu went to harvard I don't know if a lot of people know that and the selection process for harvard is like you usually have to be in like the top you have to be in like the 99th percentile it's like pretty to get selected in because the SAT is basically just an IQ test and JF got his PhD at I think he was University of Montreal so that'll be an interesting juggernaut debate and I want to say thank you guys love you guys you guys make this a seriously fun Earl and T but yeah thank you guys you guys just make me you make me feel happy you encourage me so let's see I hope you have a great rest of your night keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable and keep it real homies oh I didn't push the right button where is this goodbye oh I did it again


But her clips speaks to specifically, specifically, this is right out of your book, which is you make the point that, hey, people, when they're resuscitated, they claim to have seen things that they shouldn't be able to see. Well, they've seen it on TV. They make it up. Here's a researcher who asked that question with the control group. I had then patients who had been successfully resuscitated, but they didn't have any ADF experience, or they didn't have the outer body component. And I asked them if they could describe what they thought that we had done to them. And they were like, what do you mean? I was dead. I don't remember anything, right? Exactly. That's right. And they were saying, why are you asking me this? I have no idea what you did to me at all. The majority of them couldn't even guess. They couldn't make a guess as to what we'd done. And then a few of them then did make a guess. And it was based on TV hospital dramas that they've been watching. And what I found is that there were errors and misconceptions in what they thought we had done to them. And so some of them thought that they had been DC shocked with the paddles. And those people had just had the resuscitation, the CPR, and drugs administered, such as adrenaline or noradrenaline. And then some of them made educated guesses. But the place where they thought that we put the paddles onto their body was completely erroneous. It was wrong. It was incorrect. Data data, you know, this is great stuff. Yeah. So it just, you know, it just goes to show that the people who did report the near death experience described their experience with accuracy, whereas the control group weren't accurate. And most of them couldn't even hazard a guess. Okay. So first of all, full disclosure, you didn't know about that research? I know about similar research to this, that what are the objective criteria by which they decide whether a narrative account is a hit or a miss of what they did? How many details have to get correct for you to say, yes, that's accurate for what we were doing to you? No, you must have gotten that from a TV drama, because that's not what we did to you. This is a basic, basic scientific story. No, no, this is super in science. You have to operate. I'm glad you're back to science. She wrote and published a peer reviewed paper. What, what, what was the criteria for deciding if a narrative was a hit or a miss?


Calculus is based on the idea of a limit, so here's a quick introduction to what limits are. So, we might begin by considering the limit of a polynomial function. For example, here we have the limit as x approaches 2 of x squared minus 4x plus 5. Now, there's actually two parts to this problem. One is to actually find this limit, but the other thing is we want to defend the answer numerically. Come up with some evidence that our claim is actually correct. So what's the idea behind a limit? In this particular case, what we're interested in finding out is what happens as x gets close to 2. If you want to read this expression, it's really asking us what happens to this thing, x squared minus 4x plus 5, as x gets close to 2. So, one way we might proceed with this is that as x gets close to 2, x squared gets close to 2, squared 4x gets close to 4 times 2, and 5 gets close to... well, it actually gets close to 5, because it's always 5. So as x gets close to 2, this polynomial expression gets close to 2 squared minus 4 times 2 plus 5, and that simplifies down to 1. And so we can say that our limit as x approaches 2 of 4x squared minus 4x plus 5 is equal to 1. As x gets close to 2, it looks like this thing gets close to 1. As an answer to the first part of the question, we don't really have to do anything else. However, we also want to defend our answer numerically. So let's see what actually happens as x gets close to 2. And so we might do that by constructing a table of values for our values of x close to 2, and our expression x squared minus 4x plus 5. So we'll pick some x values close to 2. For example, if x is 1.9, then I'll substitute that into the expression and get 1.01 as the result. Well, let's get even closer to 2. I might take a look at x equals 1.99, and again, if I substitute 1.99 into the expression, I'm going to end up with something that looks like this, 1.001. And close to 2 could be above it, so maybe I'll take 2.1 and find out what the expression is equal to, or 2.01, and find out what the expression is equal to. And looking at these values here, as x gets close to 2, it does look like the values of this expression are getting close to 1. So I might say that the values in the table support the claim that as x gets close to 2, this expression gets close to 1. And if I wanted to write a complete answer to this entire question, and find the limit and defend the answer numerically, I need to include everything that's in green. Well, I can also take a look at a rational function, find the limit as x approaches 3, 3x plus 5 over x squared plus 2x minus 2. In other words, what happens to this expression as x gets close to 3, and as before, we'll also take a look at defending our answer numerically. So what happens? Well, as x gets close to 3, we might analyze the problem as follows. This numerator expression, 3x plus 5, looks like it's going to get close to 3 times 3 plus 5. That's 9 plus 5, that's 14. Our denominator, x squared plus 2x minus 2, looks like it's going to get close to 3 squared plus 2 times 3 minus 2. And I'll go ahead and simplify that. That works out to be 13. And if I want to consider then the quotient 3x plus 5 over x squared plus 2x minus 2, then it seems reasonable that that quotient is going to get close to the value 14 over 13. And so I may make the claim that by limit as x gets close to 3 of this thing, I'm guessing it's going to be about 14 thirds. Well, let's see if we can find that answer numerically. So we'll check out the values of this expression near x equal to 3. So again, we'll construct a table. And so let's pick an x value close to 3. How about 2.9? I'll substitute that into my expression. And after all the dust clears, I get a numerical value 1.1220 approximately. And I'll take a closer value 2.99. I'm close to 3. Substitute that in. And all the dust clears. I end up with 1.0813 about. And again, I don't have to only consider values less than 3. I should consider values greater than 3. So how about 3.1? And substitute that in. Let all the dust clear. And something even closer to 3. And I get something like that. And so the question is, do the table values here support the claim that my limit is going to be 14 over 13? Well, it helps if I knew what 14 over 13 was as a decimal. So I'll go ahead and compute that. That's about 1.0769. And it does seem that as I get close to 3, if I'm close to 3, the values here are pretty close to this 1.0769. So it seems reasonable to conclude that this work here is correct. And so my values support the claim that the limit is 14 over 13. And again, as a complete answer to the question, find this limit and defend the answer numerically, I'm going to include everything that's in green. And for a radical function, I can do essentially the same sort of problem. So here, what happens to square root x plus 5 as x gets close to negative 1? And the same analysis goes through as x gets close to negative 1. This square root x plus 5 gets close to negative 1 plus 5. And after all the dust settles, looks like that's going to get close to 2. And my guess is that my limit is going to be 2. But again, let's take a look at our answer numerically. We'll try and defend this claim by computing values. So we'll take a look at square root of x plus 5. That's for x values that are close to negative 1. And again, I'll set up a table. Here's something close to negative 1. Works out to be square root 3.9, 1.9748. And take something closer. And after all the dust settles, 1.9975. And again, I don't have to be on one side. I can be on the other side. And again, I'll do the computation. And again, take something even closer. And let's take a look at it. If I take a look at x values that are close to negative 1, it does look like square root of x plus 5 is close to 2. And so again, as a complete answer to the question, find the limit and defend the answer numerically, you do want to include everything that's written in green.


And away we go, diving into the Shudio. Oh, another week, another, and I look down here because, yes, we've got the carbon fiber plate shoes here, the 4% and the next percent that I cut open. I know I ruffled a few feathers when I did that, but the reason I did it was to, for moments just like this, so we can analyze and break down these shoes together here in the Shudio. And that's what we're talking about in this week's Q&A, and we'll get to the QD later on. Let's dive in. About 80 questions came in last week on YouTube all about carbon fiber plates running and racing shoes. And so I'm gonna go through as many as I possibly can. All right, let's go. Here we go, JK asks, what is it specifically about carbon fiber plate shoes that makes them faster? JK, that's an interesting question, a big kind of broad question. And JK, based on what I've researched and read, yes, the carbon fiber plate, and you can see it exposed here on, let's see, maybe on this one. There we go. On this next percent, you can see it exposed there, the actual carbon fiber plate. But what I'm reading, JK, is that it's the midsole stack height that is making a big, big difference for runners. Yes, the carbon fiber plate inside is helping. And I will say that I've also read, and this is on a study that I read out of Boulder, Colorado. There's a, I think it's a physiology lab up there where they tested runners on a treadmill. It's the curvature of the carbon fiber plate in the midsole. So what is the actual, how much curve is through that carbon fiber plate as well? It's like some science that is a little bit beyond me, frankly, like I took physics in college, but I'm not saying I understood it completely. So anyway, JK, stack height of the midsole and curvature of that carbon fiber plate. I'll leave it there. And yeah, oh, it's a big, it's a big topic. Okay, moving on to Valentin. He asks, how much faster would you say you are wearing the Hoka Carbon X compared with a non-carbon plate shoe? So on this carbon X, it's kind of neat, the outsole, they actually leave a portion of the outsole open so you can see the carbon plate inside. I think it's just to reassure us that it's actually in there. However, some rocks get stuck in there. So that's a little, a little, I bet they're tweaking that for the Hoka Carbon X2, which I haven't heard is being released anytime soon, but Valentin, is it, how much is it making me faster? That this is where it's a guessing game, right? For all of us. And it would be interesting, I must say, I'll probably try this at some point, for example, to race a marathon in an audios lineup or an Adidas shoe that is not a carbon fiber plate and see what time I run in, you know, actually in a marathon. Valentin, if I had to guess like same, maybe five, four to five seconds per mile faster, that's a complete guess though. I use the Carbon X4 long runs and I know like there's the whole, like branding of the 4%, like it's supposed to make you 4% faster. Oh my gosh, it's a, this is where it gets into a little bit of a guessing game, but I will say this much, is that based on data from Strava, they didn't, Strava has put out data from thousands of runners using these shoes and times have been dropping. In fact, I will be interested to see how the Boston Athletic Association that puts on the Boston Marathon, how they will need to adapt their qualifying times, their BQ times moving forward because of all the shoes that I'm about to list for you in moving into the future. It's gonna be interesting. Okay, I gotta move on. From Jay Rowan, 99. Well, let's address the elephant in the room. What do you think of the legal AlphaFly and did we all get played by Nike? I'm not afraid to dive into a little controversy. Okay, the Nike AlphaFly, next percent. In my humble opinion, it's not the same shoe that Kipchoge was wearing in Vienna. Just put it out there. It's a different name. And okay, so, and that's a huge, like Kipchoge was in a prototype and the AlphaFly next percent is now supposedly legal, all right? Now I guess, so here's where I'm a little confused about world athletics. So in case you didn't hear world athletics, put out some rules about two weeks ago, approximately, about the different, the specifications for shoes moving forward, carbon fiber plate shoes moving forward. For example, you can only have one carbon fiber plate inside the midsole. The stack height needs to be under 40 millimeters and there's a couple other little stipulations but where I'm confused, world athletics, is that just so everybody knows, this is a seven and a half. But if this was a 10 and a half shoe size or a 13 shoe size, the stack height is gonna get much taller. So from what I've read, the 40 millimeter rule for the midsole is for, now I've heard two different things. I've heard it's either for the size eight or size eight and a half. So what I'm saying is as the shoe gets bigger, of course, the stack height is gonna get taller and it's gonna go over 40 millimeters. But world athletics, again, from what I've read has said, we're gonna measure a size, I've heard two, whether it's an eight or an eight and a half. Why that shoe size? Why not if, in my mind, it should be, I think I did the math right, either a 10 or a 10 and a half. And because, let's say men's sizes started size seven. You know, that's like the bottom and go up to 14. So half of that seven plus three and a half is 10 and a half. So they should, in my mind, am I crazy the median measurement anyway? It's gonna be fascinating to watch as all these companies, Adidas, Brooks, Soccany, as they roll out their shoes and the measurements start happening at the end of the day, and I know this is a long answer, but at the end of the day, they better be obviously measuring the exact same shoe size for all these different companies. I know that was a lot and I kind of jumbled it, but I'm honestly a little confused by World Athletics. Why the eight or eight and a half shoe size? And so, but maybe I'm off. Maybe it's a different shoe size, but those are two reports that I read. So if it is under 40 millimeters, J. Rowan, then I'm good. I was concerned. I was very concerned about the reports of the prototype being in that, from what I read, the 50 millimeter range. So anyway, I will leave it there and that is that. That is that. Supposedly it's gonna be released on February 29th, the day of the US Olympic marathon trials down in Atlanta that I'm gonna be at. Moving on to Mark, here we go. I remember a little while back you answered someone's question about, I believe the next percent and that you would take them out for a couple runs, totaling 15 to 20 miles. You are correct, Mark, before racing a marathon in them. I bought a pair a few weeks ago for my 2020 racing, but with that price tag, I'm obviously going to wear them for more than one race. So what have you heard about the mileage lifespan of the next percent? Mark, it's a great question. Mark, I would say it depends a little bit on your gate cycle. It depends on your foot strike and it depends on how big you are as a runner. Like if you're a football player that's retiring from football and you're transitioning to endurance sports and like if you weigh 270 pounds, like you're gonna obviously compress the midsole quicker than a lighter runner. So putting that out there, I've heard Mark that 150 to 200 mile range and a lot of that Mark comes down to the integrity of the outsole. The integrity of the outsole is actually from again, I think the next percent made a good leap forward from the 4% but I've seen some pretty bad pictures all over the place on Instagram, on Facebook, of people's outsole's breaking down at like that 150 to 200 mile mark. So keep that in mind. And I took my next percent's these to I think 120 and I was just starting to feel like they didn't have the exact same pop as out of the box. Okay, I remember that 120 Mark, they were just like not quite as peppy if that makes sense. Mark, good question, I love it. Moving on to Raphael. What carbon plate shoe to be released in 2020? Are you most excited about and why? Raphael, let's do it. Let's list all the shoes, man. That's a tough question, man. So here we go, you guys ready for this? Here we go. We've got the in 2020, in the next three months, this is what's happening. The Soccany Endorphin Pro, the Nike Alpha Fly Next Percent, the Adidas Adi Zero Pro, the Skechers Go Run Speed Elite Hyper, the Brooks Hyperion Elite, and well, okay, the New Balance Fuel Cell TC but that I think they're also releasing an Elite version for racing. The TC one I believe is more geared toward training. So bottom line everyone, and I think it's actually called RC, sorry, New Balance Fuel Cell RC. Bottom line everyone, are you ready to take out a second mortgage so you can pay for all these shoes? Like it's happening, it's exciting. Finally, the competition is here to continue to innovate. All these companies are gonna have to innovate together to compete against each other and obviously Nike has dominated the carbon fiber plate scene for a long time and I'm beyond excited. So what was the question? What am I most excited about? I'm still probably most excited about the Soccany Endorphin Pro. Maybe it's because I saw Jared Ward run in New York City, at the New York City Marathon in those shoes. I actually didn't really see him run, he was ahead of me but I saw footage and so I'm pretty excited about that. I'm also, okay, so did I mention the A6 Meta Racer? Oh my gosh, I think I missed that. The A6 Meta Racer is coming out and yeah, the Brooks Hyperion Elite. I think I skipped a couple, sorry. Anyway, the Brooks Hyperion Elite, I'm excited about everything. Everything, everything, everything. So good question from Raphael. Okay, I gotta move on, I gotta go a little quicker. From Brent, Seth, do you think A6 will throw their hat in the ring and make a carbon plate racer like the other top brands? Brent, I just answered that, yes they are, it's the A6 Meta Racer. At least those are the initial reports and I think I've heard April 1st. All these companies are releasing soon because they have to get them on the marketplace for that new rule with World Athletics where they have to be available to the public. Is it four months? Yeah, four months before the competition. So, oh man, Brent, you get me going, you get me going. Okay, TJS 1189. I actually don't like running in carbon fiber plate shoes because I feel like I'm not in control anymore and I'm riding the shoes. Do you think long-term it actually can hurt a runner's tenure? I think you mean maybe longevity by disconnecting from the road and relying on the plate technology too much? I have said in the past that I think too tall a stack height can impact how you run and your gate cycle. That's why I was really concerned about really anything over 40 millimeters or definitely that 50 millimeter mark, right? I hear what you're saying. It is a different feel. I don't think it's necessarily gonna cut down on only because I think some stack height protection from the pounding is actually a good thing. Now, how rigid, how rigid the carbon fiber plates become and what they end up doing with the design of the carbon fiber plates in let's say three years or five years from now, that might impact your foot strike a little bit. Like, yeah, it's a tough one. I'm not giving you a good answer, but I write at this point, like running like 10 marathons in five years in a shoe that's more of a minimalist shoe, like 20 millimeter stack height more or 25, kind of like the Adidas lineup with the Audios lineup, you're pounding and you're hitting your joints and you're not absorbing as much of that impact. So, oh, TJS, I'm gonna leave it there. It's a good question, but obviously we're so new into this, we don't have the answers. And yeah, maybe that's a little scary, but people are gonna keep running in them. I guarantee it, I guarantee it. Okay, Barry asks, how much can a carbon fiber plate really help a slower slash mid-pack runner? For example, I'm around 840 a mile for the half marathon and nine minutes a mile for the marathon. Barry, I've gotten this question a lot and I actually, I think the shoes can help. Here's the deal, I like to think that I'm more of a four-foot striker, but for a marathon race, you get tired and you get your leg, your barking, your legs are barking and you start, I start to drift back and that's where I start to slow down when I'm not up on my toes as much and I'm not leaning forward. So, I think the benefit of the carbon fiber plates I think that they can benefit, bottom line, I think it can benefit everyone. Now, the magnitude as to how much benefit, I don't know the science between a nine minute a mile and a five minute a mile, right? Gosh, actually, let's just open it up. Please comment down below if you have more of like a physics background than I do. Let us know your thoughts if you have a science background more than I do, but my opinion is that at any pace, the shoes are gonna help, but maybe not as at the magnitude or at the amount as, let's say, a kipchogi. So, okay, moving on from Fredrick, to Fredrick, what distance is, would you say benefit from a carbon fiber plate? I'm assuming sprint distances does not, but I want to get a shoe for a 5K race. Fredrick, correct me if I'm wrong everyone, what is it called? It's not the ViperFly. Nike is releasing a carbon fiber plate-esque sprint spike, for the Olympics. So it's coming, Fredrick, and I would say some people have raced in the 4% and the next percent on the track for a 10K. I'm gonna say anything under 10 miles. I would prefer a more streamlined shoe with less of a midsole, or sorry, a leaner midsole, but again, no, is it the ViperFly is the next, that their tempo shoe? Oh man, there's so many shoes being released that the names are jumbling, but anyway, Nike is releasing some other shoes as well that are carbon fiber plates that are geared for shorter distances. So if I think of the name, or if I remember the name, I'll try to put it on the screen right now, and let me just make sure that we are still rolling. And Maj asked, here we go, do you think the new Soccany carbon plate will compete with the next percent? Ward, Jared Ward wore the shoe at New York and was able to beat out a lot of Nike sponsored competitors. So Maj, I think it will compete. I don't know if it's gonna be as light as the next percent, and at the end of the day, Maj, you know the drill, it's all about the grit, it's all about the training, it's all about the hard work, it's all about the determination and the natural ability of these runners that wins these races, like a Jared Ward who has a real good shot of making that Olympic team in two weeks in Atlanta. So that's my approach to these carbon fiber plate shoes. They're fun, but they don't replace the athletes. All right, here we go. E. White asked, hey Seth, do you feel as though the carbon fiber plate shoes could possibly have negative effects on the average runners using them in terms of injury from overuse or slight changes to the gait or foot strike that could lead to injury in less conditioned runners? So I've kind of talked about this a second ago. E. White, and yes, I do think negative effects could happen. Some people train in the carbon fiber plate shoes all the time. And I think this is a question down the line, but I don't like to do that because I like to save the, I like to save them for the races more. So I will wear them maybe three times in a 14 week training block. But then when I put the shoes on on race day and they do have that extra little spring to them, it's just a nice feeling.  I think it does help save your legs a little. Is it making you faster? Again, it gets back to that discussion, but I think it's saving your legs a little bit for later in the race. But I do think overtraining in carbon fiber plate shoes, I don't like it.  And then to just go cold turkey into carbon fiber plate shoes, we don't have enough data in science. I don't think, because they're so new to really be able to determine how it's impacting the general population of runners. E. White, there you go. Daniel asks Seth, do you think you ran your 106 half because of the carbon plate shoes you were wearing? Run on, and that is from Daniel. Daniel, I was chasing butter. So no, I don't think it was because of the shoes. Because I ran in those carbon fiber plate shoes here in Denver, but it was altitude. Daniel, I was fit and I had a good pack to chase. Those four guys, I was chasing and I was excited. It was my first marathon. And honestly, I think I said this before, the 106 53, it felt easy. Like I honestly was holding back. Now in retrospect, that was, I think I could have broken 106 if I was running just a half marathon that day. But what I wasn't ready for obviously was to do that twice. It was too fast for doing it twice. But honestly, that pace at that distance, it felt, I was cruising. That's why I stuck with those guys. So, and I didn't lose them actually till it was like mile 15, maybe 15 and a half. It was another two and a half miles after the half marathon that I held on. And then the wheels came off. Okay, moving on. I think we got a couple more here. Hi, Seth. I usually only use my Nike Vaporfly 4% for marathon races plus one or two tempo runs a few weeks before the race. My theory is that I am feeling more the carbon plate effect and it gives me a mental boost on race day. I know I forgot to write your name down. I apologize. 100%, just like what I just said, I love saving them for race day. But I use them for my threshold days leading into the marathon. I love it. I love the approach. Okay, moving on to Stefan. Last one, in a previous video, you mentioned that some elite runners use almost exclusively carbon plated shoes during their training. So do you think it is better to use these shoes regularly during the training phase to be more used to the shoe and gate cycle or only on race day for mental boost? It's kind of what we just talked about. And Stefan, those guys, and I'm talking specifically about the Africans, the Ethiopians and Kenyans, they're always training in carbon fiber plate shoes from what I can tell. Okay, this is all speculating. This is like pictures and video that gets leaked out of their training camps in Kenya and Ethiopia. Like it looks, from what I can tell, I always see them in carbon fiber plate shoes, but it's a little bit of speculation. But they're running fast and they're training very hard and they run hard, hard, hard. And I guess it's maybe the approach of any little benefit they can get aerobically and anaerobically from the shoes, helping them. Man, I don't know, Stefan. It's just not my approach. And listen, a lot of them stay healthy, but at the same time, we're talking about the best of the best in the world. So it's a different class of runners that we, like it's like, we mortals, we just try and survive sometimes through our training. So Stefan, that's not a great answer, but yeah, I'm gonna leave it there. Yeah, I like saving them for race day and just using them a couple of times. Okay, once again, here's the carbon fiber plate shoes and then I'll get you the question of the day. Socconee Endorphin Pro, Nike Alpha Fly Next%, Adidas Audi Zero Pro, Skechers Go Run Speed Elite Hyper, Asics Meta Racer, Brooks Hyperion Elite and New Balance Fuel Cell TC and I think RC is coming down the road. TC is available right now, just so you know from NewBalance.com. Question of the day. What questions do you have for me about the US Marathon Olympic Trials, two weeks from today? When you're watching, if you're watching this on Saturday, whatever the day is, two weeks from today, I'll be there filming. What questions do you have for me about the process of qualifying, about the race, about the course, about, yeah, anything. Anything about the event in Atlanta, Georgia, let me know and I know it's an American event but obviously like, I don't know, I think it's gonna be a big event for people around the world to watch. So, all right everyone, that is it for today. Thank you for watching. Thanks for being here. Another Q&A in the books. All right, we're gonna toss it back on the right too. Last week's Q&A all about trail running shoes on the right and then road running shoes that'll be on the left. I think that was from two or three weeks ago. That'll be on the left. All right, see beauty, work hard and love each other. See you tomorrow.