right in front of us This is about a capital investment that we need to Collectively make the case to the town To that that needs to be supported now So I don't know if I expressed that well, but I wanted to be able to address the Dr. Morrison Well, can we do Dr. Morris carry and then mr. Nakajima. Is that okay? Okay So I want to clarify, you know because a couple people have made note of it Which was fine what I described the new normal I didn't mean the normal into the future No, I just want to say it for everyone here. I don't I didn't take it your comment that way But I just want to explain that Is that the number of accumulating issues That all are interrelated Is concerning and that's a different I should have stated that was inarticulately stated But I just want to make sure I'm being really clear about that that these issues Yes, they're distinct, but they're actually they're they're not distinct enough that there are relationships between You know Some systems fail and then that taxes other systems that have to overcompensate and so that's what I was trying to express Is when you have buildings that are 45 45 to 50 years old weren't perhaps the finest construction when they were built Were built with issues that teachers were reporting day one of wildwood in 1970 because I knew someone who did that And he expressed that and it weren't just about the open classrooms. It was broader than that That's the the conundrum So I just wanted to be really clear on that point because I wish I had said it differently and I want to be clear on what I was attempting to say And I think you know, I like a lot of the feedback that I'm getting from the committee and I think the challenge will be how to do investigate all that Work And in a more independent manner perhaps that if we're really you know, what I hear from mr. Demling I'm just not picking on you but your last comment about prioritizing the schools over other capital projects That's easy to say in the school committee meeting and that's not I'm not suggesting that as a negative But it's perhaps harder when you get to jcpc or other needs because if they were at a library board of trustees meeting I could imagine a similar concern expressed about the library if we're at another meeting I could imagine a similar concern expressed about the roads and by no means am I suggesting that I don't want to prioritize the schools but I do think If the if the conversation with the town is to express how dire the schools aren't to develop a plan for how to remedy that That's a different capital request process than what we've used in the past Which has been facilities director doing really different facilities director doing really articulate jobs Understanding issues because we're talking about systems issues at this point which are which are broader So I think when we come to the financing issue, I don't I don't know enough to give a clear answer But I think we'd have to have a conversation about the funds it would take to Have work done to then present a report that would justify the expenses that we're all talking about I don't think it's I don't think it's the same process we've used in the past so so I yeah, I I was motivated to run for school committee because In large part I care so much about the infrastructure and wasn't disappointed Also with the failure of the building project, but I think you raise a really good point that we need to move beyond that and start thinking you know towards the future and You know one of the things but I think we also need to learn from why that potentially failed Um, you know what what were some of the causes of that and one of the things I think is that I don't think everybody in the town is aware Of what we just talked about in this room. I think everybody, you know with kids in these schools You know and even then you know like my my son's first grade teacher was among the people who just spoke And I have to admit I you know Did not get any you know information about the conditions that she thought were unacceptable for our kids And so I want to say thank you to everybody who spoke out, but I think we we need to Find a way especially given the competing capital Projects in this town to get this message out loudly and clearly Well at the same time and this is where I think it's difficult is to emphasize that you know These are not I love our school. I'm a graduate of the the schools I use and my kids here and I you know could choose to go out there But I but I love Amherst and I don't want to put this All of these negatives to say that you know, we're not giving our kids a great education But it just does seem like the people who work there and the people who go to school there deserve a lot better So how can we get there in a shorter period as time is possible in a town like Amherst? Where things, you know, often don't move as fast as we like so I would second the like let's do whatever we can to find a way to get the staff The support they need if that supplies or if that's more people, I don't know We hopefully could do that in the shorter term But how and then maybe Using our column or I don't know what other platforms we have But I think we need to get this message out there because I don't think you know as a parent at wildlife An Allison member of the school committee. I was taken aback by some of the Information we got today and I think it's also nobody's raised this yet, but I mean last time we got the report on the air quality My sense was yes, we've got five years and we don't know how long we can You know band you know bandage this and keep it together But I also got the sense that things are weren't actually that bad when these tests were run It seems like something changed dramatically Over the summer potentially because of the conditions you're talking about with the buildings being closed But or something like about the the way those reports were run. I mean they caused me to question You know the information we got on the Fort River in the wild It's it's it's the qualitative data. We're getting from people today is Also valid and I think it is then It calls into question in my mind what whether or not The conditions that were measured in those reports We're typical or or not. I don't I don't um, so I'm rambling a bit but um So anyways, I I just I I think my my final point is that We really just need to find a way to make this case and and do it in a way that doesn't You know take away from all of the positive things that are happening in our schools in terms of the amazing teachers and the amazing students and staff so But I'm feeling this feels like a wake-up call to me and um, I'd like to Not lose whatever momentum we have to try to start getting things moving in a way that that we should Thank you So a couple things. I mean one I I think that if the school committee has to ask for uh, an integrated capital plan around maintaining These schools in a state of as good a repair as we can I guess and certainly a sufficient one to be able to meet The needs of the of the academic and work environment So whether that's a new approach for jcpc or not I don't know how we do our work and how we do our work with All of you and the staff and everyone else if we don't have that information, right? And so we just simply need to have that And I recognize then the game. I don't want to call it a game. It's not the way we're phrasing it The challenge ends up being the negotiation over how fast and well you can fund things But at least we know what we need to do. We know what we're looking at in terms of our A multi-year plan That's one thing Uh, the next thing to me would be and I'm echoing something that has been said before and by mitzvitzer just immediately is I think I would feel most comfortable. I'll put it this way because I want to be respectful Because one of the things that everyone said in the audience was they love the administration And they love the staff and they love the maintenance staff. So I'm not trying to be critical Uh of anyone But we need a more immediate response like over the next next meeting the next two meetings Of what's the plan to get these buildings more clean on a regular basis and do we need an in-year Budget request or budget alteration to do that or bring or what do we need to do? What's the scope of it? But we need like an immediate response Because regardless of when the doors are replaced or filed down or the hell is to go on I mean if we have people coming in with dead mice and My mouse feces on the carpets. It's got to be cleaned, right? I mean we that's not acceptable And so we need to understand how to respond to that and we need to respond to that Like immediately really I mean I'd rather I'd be more comfortable if you came back to us and said You found a way to do it and you're requesting the alteration And it's already being you know what I mean like I'd be more happier if you said I'm already implementing it but by the way Cover my rear end And improve this shift of a line at him Right like because I you know, I don't even want it to go on a month Right, but the bottom line is whenever that needs to happen that happens. It needs to meet to me I'd love to know whether the committee agrees, but I think that needs to happen as soon as possible And then the only way we wouldn't want to try to proceed with that is if it really did cost like some godly amount of money, right? Um Actually, I'm gonna leave I'm gonna leave it at that because I think the third point I would agree with what was said before I I think I think the this committee should be thinking actively with you and others Uh and possibly with the town manager and others around what does the future look like over the next few years if we agree that it's not um If there's a general sentiment that it's not acceptable to maintain wildwood and Fort river And triage this indefinitely regardless of what the long-term prospects for replacing the buildings are on the sequencing MSBA funding and all that kind of stuff Um, how do we get to a better place in six seven in seven years, right? What does that mean? And let's have a conversation with the town about what it means and then let's work to get consensus I'm going to say that word again consensus in the town about what that future looks like So that we can get it done. We can get it funded and we can get better facilities in the next seven years I'm saying seven only because I think that might line up with an msba Um, and let's figure that out But let's let's but I think I think the committee needs to lean in on that As a as a point along with this new capital plan and this immediate response to get into place cleaner And I would I would second that I think and I've spoken with with you, dr. Morris You know, it's really about uh, what can we do to support you and your staff? To make sure that this happens that this rises to a level of urgency that we feel that it requires Um, and that I know you believe And so whatever it is that we need to do let's let's just do it right We need to you know to get this moving as quickly as we possibly can You know, we need a plan for action for maintenance. We need to understand what's involved, you know at a budget level For all the different pieces that we've talked about and and I think it's you know, it's a great opportunity for us to have this conversation now Um, you know, it feels for for various reasons. We're kind of getting out of an emergency Sort of an you know environment where we were over the summer given the high temperatures and all of that But it still means we it still is urgent and it still needs to be taken care of soon So maybe we can do that in the next, you know, a couple of meetings And help establish a budget process moving forward that for those longer range plans, you know If it requires adding more money for you know, uh for staff, you know, if it requires adding more money for capital, you know, improvement Projects, you know, what would that look like, right? So we want to be able to support you and your staff in doing that Yeah, oh, i'm sorry. Mr. Demling. I understand. Just a couple brief follow-up. So plus one in Ms. Spitzer's comment about the apparent disconnect between the quantitative air quality report that we received and the continued qualitative Evidence that we continue to hear that there's there's something that doesn't Add up between it's with the term mold Right and if you just read the air quality report molds not an issue If you listen to the comments, mold is definitely an issue. So so what's the story, right? And And I don't know enough about the the science in order to say what what is true or not, but but something is is a missed there and um I'm glad that we're a year and a half removed from the building project because it no longer It doesn't matter. There's no building project that we're going to vote on anytime soon So, you know, we can feel free to say there is a mold problem Even if you, you know previously opposed the project Feel free to say there isn't even if you previously supported that doesn't make any difference So hopefully that's completely unbounded and we can actually figure that out because it seems to me kind of a We heard it a lot in the comments and I understand what you're saying about You know jcpc you can't just walk in and say, ah, it's a crisis fund anything you want um And and I do think there is something about the long-term relationship The schools have built up with the town that we've you know in almost every circumstance stayed within our guidance We've been very respectful about the capital planning and and working together and as a result When it's been needed the town has has come to our aid and given us an increased budget in times when we needed and So, you know that being said extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary actions and Again, if this isn't an extraordinary circumstance, it's in the ballpark So we should do what we can to be as prepared as possible to say We can reasonably say that this is what we need In this capital year, right? So while we're working on those short-term items that you know mentioned by other members, you know, we can we can have something that um That we can sink our teeth into and and fun for the next next year So I just want to appreciate the level support that the committee's offered in terms of taking next steps I think it's a false dichotomy But but it's It's worth mentioning that there's custodial issues and there's maintenance issues And there's a relationship between those and that's why I say it's a false dichotomy, but but they're they're related but not the same thing um And to the last point, um I mean, I think I understand where you're coming from mr. Demling. Um, I just um What I don't want to do is put anyone in facilities up in front of town to try to describe Some of the issues that really need more professional expertise of how you'd handle because there's such large systems issue It's one thing of the roof We're fine doing that, right? But this is not we do have ruse issues right as you heard and we have ongoing issues Roof issues at fort river, which you've seen along their report which priced out what it would take to fix it Um, but I do think a more comprehensive plan which I hear the committee talking about which I agree with is not something that I think We necessarily can do fully internally and we may need some additional support of how to do how to approach that task um, so it's not a disagreement with That the schools are in, you know, pretty close to a crisis place I'm fully in agreement with all the people here who spoke and committee members. It's actually how do we Show that to miss pitzer's point to a larger community And how do we do that in a way that shows kind of I like the language of short-term mid-term and long-term? um aspects and So I agree with that So what I can definitely do is come back at the next meeting with just some more thoughts about what's happened in the Immediate level as well as you know some thoughts about on the the larger capital level of what what that would mean What would it mean to bring in somebody to help us think through? The implications of the short medium and long term on the maintenance end because there's a relationship And I'll just be very honest and it's probably not a popular thing for me to say But if you look at a per square foot basis And custodians that's one way to analyze things another way is what are this? How easy or clean how hard is it to clean a per square foot? Depending on where the square foot are Or I think it's the right Been working for a while today. So it's a late night And so I think when we look at square foot because that's our typical the typical measure that people look is How many custodians per square foot of a building and we do that both across our buildings as well as some You know general standards And I think that what that doesn't take into account is that some buildings are easier to clean than other buildings You know, and I think that's the piece we have to add to our calculus that Is not typically used but I think in this situation Is certainly warranted because the maintenance issues are certainly bleeding over into what the custodians are having to handle Not that they're doing maintenance things, but because the maintenance issues are so problematic It actually affects the ongoing custodial work in the building So that we will certainly come back in the next meeting with some thoughts More clear thoughts on that as well as what it would look like plan forward to To assess our current conditions in a much deeper way Not looking at new buildings or renovated buildings. I want to be really clear on that I'm not looking for a feasibility study right. There's an ongoing one. There was one in the past But it's much more about assuming not assuming any changes in terms of renovation or rebuilding What are the approaches that would change the working conditions and environment for our students and staff? So I think um, it looks like the the committee is in full agreement We'll bring this back on the next agenda and we'll continue bringing it back Until we've addressed all the the different issues that we've talked about And then I think you know, we'll look to you and dr. Morris to You know help us understand where the different places are that connect up with jcpc in the town So that we can do what we need to do to to get this up to level of Okay Again, thank you to all of you who came tonight. We really appreciate it. And um, and I was going to ask for a five minute Resets So can I get a motion? Okay, second Okay, um, so Calling meeting of the amherst school committee back to order at 841 And we'll move on to the next item on the agenda which we sort of hinted at in the last Item and that is budget priorities and superintendent goals discussion So there is a sheet in your packets Everyone has seen take a look at And as a reminder this came from the last conversation that we had during our meeting in august Where we initiated a conversation about how we can You know Call to attention for the committee and for for the superintendent Some of the issues that we've been talking about and working on During the past few months from last academic year into this one and hopefully provide some continuity, right? And the point of You know focus for us or several points of focus for us and so just as a reminder I'm going to review the the major bullet points first. Dr. Morris and I sat down went through some of these kind of Pulled them out a little bit upon recommendations from other committee members and others And hopefully came up with something that kind of starts getting us in a place where We feel more comfortable, but the first item is the meeting district's equity mission and diverse learners needs And that includes things like a climate survey, but also professional development across the district continuous curriculum improvement Which includes, you know exploration of improved curriculum offerings. We've been talking about Fort River and dual language program, but also looking at Wildwood and core farm and other Ways that we might be improving in those curricula Implementing a qualitative data collection protocol The third bullet point is building an enrollment working group recommendations So it's a carryover from the enrollment working group that did that excellent work last spring And involves things like preschool options enrollment And dual language programming and then finally and again the topic that we were just talking about which is capital improvements Across the district and highlighting and bringing those up to Level of priority for us both through our budget planning process But also for the superintendent and for the committee as we think through the things that we want to accomplish in this year Um, so dr. Morrison. I don't know if there's anything else that you want to add about this These bullet points in this process Yeah, I mean I think very briefly. I think the only thing I'll add to it the chair said Is that you know, it was trying to find the right buckets of work that kind of I appreciate the chair's point of view that we want to align our budget priorities and the superintendent goals to be linked instead of kind of independent objects that may or may not have a direct relationship and so And also to think about what agenda items do we have in future agendas for amor school community meetings? So as goals are developed and executed it feels like a natural flow to be having regular updates on these items So it's not waiting till an artifact document gets produced sometime in The spring but that the school committee is kept oppressed that we're having active conversations throughout the year on these topics so, um any I don't know if the committee has had a chance to reflect on These things that we started talking about at the last meeting If what we've put together here Brings up any additional questions or thoughts This is definitely the time to bring them up Ms. McDowell um, we and I think we talked about this maybe not at the last meeting, but maybe just offline and one thing I think these are the right buckets. I think one thing that that sort of spreads across all four of the buckets is and as part of the implementation plan and that it's not spelled out explicitly and I think it should be is Communication it's a communication bringing we've talked already multiple times about bringing the broader community along and not just You know, you know the first sort of order of business is the the school community But then also so many of these things we need to bring the broader community along and how are we going to address that and I don't see it as a fifth bucket necessarily, but maybe as something that's a thread that sort of is Part of each one of these buckets of things is sort of the the two prong Plan for bringing the school community along as well as the broader community because so many of these the success is going to be dependent on that town-wide Engagement and support That's all I had. Thank you Any other thoughts or Mr. Dunlap? Um, so first couple low-level thoughts um I'd be curious as to The reason for the inclusion of improving landscaping and physical exteriors of buildings not that I don't support that but it's um It's interesting to me that it it's on a top priority kind of goals list. Um, so if you can maybe speak to that, um Ensuring all students have access to technological logically rich classrooms that reflect 21st century learning um So this is kind of related to um something I've wanted to talk about for a little while um, and I thought it had mostly a relationship to um to maybe health Class and I'm not sure exactly where it fits, but um, like if I was coming up with a more like a specific, you know goal um the the impact of of technology and in particularly um attention demanding and distracting sources um from all pervasive internet um devices Is a particularly concerning development to me for um a number of reasons it really relates to how uh attention is developed and and how we develop and maintain our ability to focus um Which is obviously a core skill for students to to learn and this is the first time in which um human beings are growing up with this is the default You know we as adults. I'm sure we struggle with you know putting our cell phones down and staying away from Facebook and all these other things that are specifically engineered to capture your specific attention and to hold it as long as possible and um If I'm if I'm sort of thinking 20 30 years ahead about gee what what something I would love A school committee to have been really progressive and forward about it's it's seeing this this effect of of uh Of what technology is having on our attention and being able to empower students with The right behaviors and skills to be able to manage that effectively and not having The technology manage you um because that really is the core essence of the problem is that You know you have this attention and are you in control of it? Or is the technology itself in control of it? And it's it I see I see this concern bubbling up across all age groups and different aspects of society and so um I don't want to get anti technology, but um Uh something as as generic as just promoting technology in 21st century. You know, I mean, yeah, I get that let's have Chromebooks and all that but um To me the more urgent need is is this uh, um, you know empowerment of how you manage technology Anyway, that's a very low level detail, but it was a low level item And then the other sort of thread that isn't called out here But we've talked about it before is just preserving and protecting the budget because you know this A whole house of cards falls over if your budget goes away. Um relates to charter expansion later on in the agenda So I don't know if that has to be called out as a specific item But it's it's something that's always on my mind sure I Says it's not really in here. I'd also just say I actually think the question of trying to understand the impact on of technology On people but particularly in this case children although might be relevant for staff too actually for the for the learning environment Is an absolutely fascinating question I've been hearing for years that the introduction of various technologies have have impacted Intention I mean some ways There's some learning skills that are picked up that are new that are created by the interactivity An activity of devices that may may be positive for all I know But there are others around attention span and concentration that appear to be negatively impacted by technology And so I know this is off topic because it's not really actually able to get one of the goals But it'd be fascinating to see whether whether our district has or could in fact even look to try to engage Foundations experts You know research scientists and trying to figure out how do how could we be a positive environment around learning what those best practices would be And how they impact classroom because in the classroom and also the learning environment I think it's actually a fascinating it's actually a fascinating question and an important one. Um Having said that back on to the agenda Um Number one, I think is great Having I think we having continuity a number of these things actually it's kind of like the budget point that mr. Delming just made having continuity around goals, and I know mr. Dennis said the same thing too is really really important So the first one around equity mission. I think is really important I think calling out the enrollment working group recommendations continuity is also important For the capital acts improvements In my mind Uh, we'll be voting tonight. Are you taking feedback? Just feedback these aren't okay, so yeah these can I maybe take a step back because I think your question I don't mean interrupt, but I think your question Highlighted or highlight the fact I didn't do a good job explaining Okay, I think I understand now though. Okay Sounds good. Well, I just want to make sure the committee members, you know You know say whatever you want me to say. I mean I can pause. Yeah, so mr. Don't just sort of draft I mean just I think it's good to be transparent We're so donors were to draft effort feedback as priorities and I would take the feedback I got tonight to then draft goals that were aligned to the rubric and standards and all that awesome So anyway, so for example on the last one on capital improvements across district I would substitute the conversation we just had for this Because I mean even just what mr. Demling said around why you talking about landscaping I honestly could care less if your goal calls out landscaping What I would actually what's more important for me Is what are we trying to do on our capital plan if they're short medium long-term things? What is that are we doing of a commitment to try to do that this year? Are you going to be an educational leader in doing that? Put that into words and then I'm assuming that in the same way that you're talking about Working with the town and figuring out how this conversation develops with town staff and leadership I do the same thing internally and so I'm sure that people who get answers or don't think this question around Why landscaping and appearance is really important and you'll talk to them and you'll include it So that'd be great. So I think so in this one I would just read I mean in my view my feedback could be rewrite it to reflect the conversation we just had And some of the urgency around that I don't really understand what implement a qualitative data collection protocol to capture the effects Of recent changes to guidelines and policies recommend a plan for adjustment as needed and begin to execute against it um I could infer all sorts of meanings to that but I have no idea what you're talking about So I'll let miss I mean I can answer but if you would like to Uh, I mean this got expanded out a little bit from what I had written initially, right? So I think the the idea was To sort of carry on a conversation that we actually started the regional school committee Which was you know, how do we capture data about what's happening in our schools and and apply that To our process for both superintendent valuation goals But also just what we're doing, you know here in the committee level and in a policymaking level um, and so this was an attempt to try to initially at least Understanding that you know, perhaps at the elementary school level We can't go about collecting survey data from students in particular in the same way that we do For older from older students But we can get qualitative data and we can talk with teachers and we can talk with parents and sort of get a different Uh Sense of what's what's happening in the schools That would then help inform a lot of our our process That was the initial thinking So I would rewrite it to sound more like that No, because I mean it's reasonable obviously I mean it's actually critically important that we figure out how we um develop replicable Not own dually expensive It's just like the sick the golden fleece or whatever. There's a holy grail like no one ever gets this right But the goal of the goal of every social research project science research project is always to have like a replicable low cost data set You can do longitudinally, you know and marginally improve That'd be awesome. And if it tied eventually like it was explicitly tried to receive your goals, that'd be even better So you're gonna work on that Maybe I'll share some of the comments I shared with you that Individually, so I think the other thing I shared with mr. Donas my actually significant caution my only significant caution about what you drafted. I offered feedback is that um This is a really expensive budget priority and superintendent goals list And I'm gonna be very honest with the same I was with mr. Donas I like all many of these things in here. I believe in them and I think what I'm looking for you not in a yes No Binary answer is that if I'm gonna draft goals based on these that that's going to be significant amount of work for the committee To be advocating for funding to do these things, right? So I could I can't quantify each one of these four kind of bucket areas in specific dollars and set at the moment But a lot of them have significant financial implications and so what I don't want to do is I don't want to set up the committee By working on these goals drafting these things get to budget season and then have the committee Sort of caught between a rock and a hard place You're like well, we wanted to do these things, but could you do them a little less expensive, right? Or maybe that's okay, but but that was my caution that I shared with the chair is um I think these are the right things. I think that the right things to do. I think the right thing for students There's no There's not a lot of disagreement from where I sit in terms of what needs to happen and what's on this page And and I get the feedback I've heard and I'm taking notes on that But this is not an inexpensive list of things to be working on and doing and so I share that with mr Donas and I was shared in public with the committee Because I don't want I don't want it to be a setup for you all, you know I'm not so worried about me, but I'm particularly worried. I don't want to be a setup For the committee to say yes, we you know, I write goals based on these they get endorsed and then I come back on this budget season And you know, it creates some cognitive dissonance between the school committee and the right and all that and and that was the concern I expressed or the primary concern I expressed. I hope it's okay. They expressed it here. But yeah Well, yeah, just to clarify because I think when you and I spoke You're usually have concerns about the capital improvements in particular being perhaps more expensive than some because the other things are Actually things that we've talked about so there's not really very many surprises and maybe you feel a little differently now Um, and and I agreed. I said, you know, I think that yes the the capital improvements could even especially the conversation that we just had tonight Um, if we're going to go down that road that you know, there will be budget implications and some of them could be fairly expensive Um, the other one that stands out is the preschool. Yeah, I'm sorry just to be and I apologize if I didn't share that when we spoke prior Yeah, well, yeah, I guess we had talked about something different that we talked about advocating for other solutions Right, right. Absolutely. Um, but just that has the potential of someone paying for Something right and so whether that's school committee or advocacy on that front I just wanted to make sure that there was no illusions that Do I believe in preschool options? Absolutely. Do I believe in the capital Improvements absolutely need to happen. Absolutely. But but I also just I want to be explicit on the front end that Some of these goals may end up with price tags that are challenging and then we have to manage through it But I didn't want you to I didn't want to get to January and presenting here's here's my sense of where we can go on capital and then lead to some disagreements or Where did this come from from the committee and me and I want to all be working on the same page on that front I'm sorry to follow up as so the the first bullet under continuous curriculum improvement Direct exploration of improved curriculum offers including specialized mining instruction Is that a another way of phrasing? Hey everybody remember how we talked about doing dual language at Fort river and something clever at crocker and wildwood This is the something clever at crocker and wildwood. Is that what I'm using simple language. I apologize But I mean people have been to our meetings and we've talked about yes encouraging wildwood. I mean is that it? Yes Okay, so um my comment would be so my comment would be first off by the way I would reorganize these things to be more explicit about what they are. I mean if that's if that's supporting The development of specialized curriculum or programming Whatever it is whatever phrase you'd use at wildwood and crocker. I would just say that as opposed to using language It's a euphemism for that The second thing I'd say is don't be scared of multi-year goals So if something's expensive and it seems hard to do In year one Then you could accomplish year one of your superintendent goals by at least getting us along the path Even if it's a multi-year path if it's the right journey and it's the right destination Then the fact that it takes more than one fiscal year So that's being realistic. We got to get there. We're working on getting there. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you These microphones by the way are picking up like crazy It's like your booming sort of voice of god stuff here. I'm gonna care for really Oh to us then that's weird to us. It's yeah the feedback is so weird So, um, so what do we what do we think we're looking for here in terms of process schedule? I'm always thinking about okay What's the final date that we are voting here are your goals like what are we marching towards? I think that would help focus our I think we could wander and have interesting discussions about goals for a long time until we actually have to get down to Picking them. So if we sort of had I'd ask the question before what's the latest we want to approve these to So that you know it's fair to both School committee superintendent You know if we have an updated answer Yeah, so I thought you know I'd propose I'd bring specific goals drawn from this Conversation as well as a document at the next meeting on the 9th and perhaps approve on the 16th That's what I was thinking I'm open to other feedback I guess I'm kind of going back to this issue. I feel like there are two constraints one is Can we afford to do these and are we setting realistic goals? But the other would be kind of like When you initially look at this does this seem like A reasonable amount of things to do in a year. I guess getting some feedback about what is It would be good to have reasonable Expectations both in terms of budget and also like there are all sorts of other constraints So I guess getting an initial read on should we be thinking about what are laying this down or should we be thinking about adding to it because Certainly, I think we could all do both of those. Yeah I mean I'll share my thoughts which is This feels different than the last couple years and I'm not talking interim versus permanent So what feels a little different and not in a bad way is these goals with exception perhaps of the first one Pretty uniquely specific to the Amherst elementary district, right? So if you think about enrollment working group recommendations capital improvement, yes We could talk about that in secondary. We will actually but it's a different conversation. Thankfully It's a different conversation. I'm not saying things are perfect at the middle school and high school But it's a different conversation Um, and so I appreciate the question it came up in Pelham to just understanding that, you know You have 43 of a superintendent working on these goals And so I do have that concern as well. I mean, I think when there are goals there are goals with a more of a through line Precated 12 and three districts that Matters, you know, and I think the equity mission and diverse learners needs not that we won't look specifically at elementary level But it is To a certain extent in every one goal The other three feel Mr. Mungan is correct to me. It's 44 of a superintendent. I apologize Speaking of technology use distracting you And so I do have a little bit of caution and as I was going to draft the goals I was going to draft it with that in mind to be very candid, you know And Pelham this same item came up and their percentage is not 44 And you know, I don't want to go back into the realization conversation but there is a reality that These goals are not going to be shared with Pelham and they're not going to be shared with the region for the most part and I don't mean to be I mean, I work really hard all those things and there's some finite limit of what can be done well And so my concern always is quality versus quantity, you know, and I see the same thing with my the staff I supervise which is And I'm not suggesting you need to follow my lead. I wouldn't be clear on that But I'd rather a fewer goals that are more important and done well than more goals Even if they're things that I like like there's lots of things that all employees do that are not listed on their goals document So I think the Excuse, you know, Mr. Nakajima use it slightly in a different way, but I don't mean simple in terms of simple in terms of the content but clear understandable goals that are actionable that are Understandable to all that are easy to understand metrics of how you do assess them You know, that would be my preference would be to take some of these pieces and I want about landscaping But that just becomes like a low-hanging fruit example of something that wouldn't necessarily be in my goal, right? Do we have some areas we need to address? Absolutely with that and actually has implications of Facilities of some of our landscaping because it affects. I don't want to get into the weeds We talked about facilities. I think enough tonight Um of that and a bad pun that was unintentional, but um It's like the third time today. I've had horrible unintentional puns. So Mr. Magano caught one earlier. I think so So I think I want to try to draft something That's why I'm not asking for the committee to vote at the next meeting And I don't mean to be flip about the 44 but that is a reality And you know to be frank, we've also reduced its central office. So we have less people doing The work and and that's a reality and we'll manage it and this work needs to get done None of none of my commentary is Uh a critique of that some of this work needs to get done It's just how do we do it effectively and how do we do it? Well, because I don't want to do any of these things Less than well because they're they're that important. So how do we frame them? And just to you know, I think to add to that This was meant to be a dialogue, right? Um among the committee and with the superintendent And this is not all supposed to be superintendent goals, right? There's also supposed to be budget priorities. And so, you know, I think it's it is I think we're looking to dr. Morris to help advise on what feels more like a, you know An actual goal to evaluate him on in the upcoming year or multiple years Um, but also where should we be thinking in terms of our budget? You know priorities, right and some of this a lot of this actually is stuff that we've already been talking about So this should most of the the things on this paper should not be a surprise Um, and I just want to mention the uh because mr. Demling brought up the landscaping piece That came from a conversation that we were having around infrastructure And just the facilities but just general maintenance around our buildings And you know, you do walk-throughs or walk-arounds, you know, you see a lot of Problems there, right? And so it's a way of articulating, you know, all the exterior of the building Which is just as important as the interior if for a lot of people, especially when first impressions matter a lot You're coming into these, you know buildings So it's not to say that we want to spend thousands of dollars Redoing the exterior of these buildings when again, we have so many pressing problems in the interior of the buildings uh health related and others but it is, you know, not to lose sight of Some of these other things as well that you know, that could be if we have room for it It'd be great to to figure out how to deal with it.  So one of the positive things you heard a lot of negative things about schools, you know tonight in terms of facilities And I want to acknowledge that one of the positive things that we recognize is when there was overgrowth near where the vents were It was actually then backing into the vents and contributing to negative air quality And we've solved that problem to a certain, you know, to a large extent and that is a really positive thing And I'm not saying things are perfect now by any stretch of the imagination, but there is an interplay between landscaping and The building that's not some of its aesthetics, but there's there's some functional aspects of it as well So I just want to make sure you feel supported there I mean the level of Not the harp on this, but I think the level of the goals I'm looking for also Um, that's why it's what that I'm doubly landscaping the physical exterior buildings is actually very important like technology and other things to me though It's the wrong level of the goal to focus on that as opposed to Hey at the end of the year Do we actually have a multi-year capital plan that deals with long term median term and short term things? Do we feel like we effectively responded to immediate Challenges or having a building conditions Like to me that that you could boil that into like two sentences and make it somewhat actionable and My god, that'd be incredibly important and I'm sure you'll deal with some landscaping issues where they're relevant in there And we'll talk about them when we need to but but they mean that's the level that's the level of the goal absolutely So I'm I'm I reckon it um, so what I'm hearing you Ask for and and I don't know if it's So I'm put the question back to you is um Help in prioritizing these so yes, it's budget prioritization But what I'm hearing is also it's also your goals. What are the priorities for your goals? um Is That what we plan to talk about at the the next time when you bring sort of your revised Goals back or is that what we want to try and tackle tonight? I guess is the question So my process requests given a whole bunch of variables is if people in the next week Have thoughts on that question. Do you either give me a buzz shoot me an email? and talk through that because I think That'd be really helpful for me to know Before I start drafting. I mean, I think I'd a sense from the conversation certainly But I think if people have specific thoughts, I'm really open to hearing to hearing them individually and sometimes people are more comfortable sharing that and Not on camera and sometimes people feel comfortable doing that So people should feel free to get in touch with me in any way that makes sense of them to share You know if you had to pick, you know, what's the the thing that you feel passionate about that? You might feel like might get lost in the shuffle here or might not get lost But you just want to re-emphasize that point. I'm very open to that kind of feedback and be very helpful. Okay Okay. Thank you very much All right, uh moving us along to the next item. So school committee forum planning Which we've been uh touching on here and there um So dr. Morris, do you want to take us off on this? Yeah, and I think I'll be brief to say that we've been to two preschools already and people are highly interested in You know being able to talk through as more details are developed And I'm not sure all of our preschool families that I've spoken to actually I know all of our preschool families Wouldn't necessarily see a school committee meeting with the presentation as being the right opportunity For them and that's not a critique of our meetings or your meetings or you know, it's just It's it's more formalized. They're not looking for the presentation. You'll all receive next time in the academic program They're looking for more more nuts and bolts and asking questions I did to mr. Demling's point earlier. You'll be pleased to know We may actually include some regionalization talks and people said what's regionalization So I I'm trying to find small areas to to maybe emphasize that there's other things going on of them Do a language programming in our schools? But I do think when we get to october particularly on the academic program side of things I think there'll be a lot of interest in that And I do think having some opportunities for people to weigh in and offer feedback not that it would be Impossible afterwards, but I think just it makes more sense to Is what's been proposed what feedback do people have and and have that process play out a bit Going to the preschools has been great And we now have a long list of email addresses and phone calls where people said when you do another forum Here's how to get in touch with me. I'm highly interested So I think figuring out a way to do that and you know loosely talked about whether We can include some regionalization information in there as well so that we're not running multiple forums on multiple topics You know, maybe not every day's for both you can't predict that but um, I'm open to that idea because I'm imagining Less presenting and more question and answer and conversation As opposed to our school committee, which would be much more presentation mode and that seems to work well so far for the outreach thoughts comments from the committee so the The preschool parent and it makes perfect sense the way you have identified the preschools to date and I'm glad that we're going out and reaching them But I think there are a lot of people who use like myself, you know family-based daycares and they're much smaller and I guess they'd be welcome to attend the PGO meeting but that's occurring at the same time that you'd be dropping off your preschool So I'm just wondering given that preschool families are the most Likely folks to have opinions and want to get feedback on this. Are we gonna are there any other? Forms planned or ways of thinking about how we can reach out to those other preschool families who may not Yeah Yeah, so what we found last year was that um has Getting old. I guess it sounds strange to say the um The best way the because we asked people how they found out about the meetings We had last spring on this topic and facebook advertising and I'm not like pro facebook advertising it actually To be fully disclosure. I mean you can track who you're advertising to by age and all that and I'm sure that's really effective It feels very big brother to me and I feel really uncomfortable about it and Many families um linguistically diverse families because we can target that as well responded. I saw it on facebook And so I think if we do have forums making sure we're not just advertising through traditional sources But last year's feedback was that we actually did some and I'm not going to mention them because I don't want to Speak negatively of the other ways we did it, but that was by far the most effective way More than ways that I would have thought would have been better So I think you know newsletters posters all those things, but actually Really investing a bit of a bit of money into facebook advertising to gather more of those families What's to do the email list for preschools and they seem to be willing to work with us? Um, I think we don't have a list of all the home-based preschool Centers, um, so we'll have to work with you know, perhaps others to develop that list a little more fully Um, I mean, I just think there are all these Like I'm on a Amherst mom's list for kids around my son's age Sex, but there are lots of moms on it who have younger children Especially because they have siblings who are younger and then also thinking like I would be happy to Share information with the lists of both the preschools, but the family-based ones So I mean if there's any way we can help and Through our social connections or just taking advantage of that I think that would be really useful because I think facebook is great With the copy I said you list sorry to be so negative about it, but it just I know I know lots of people use it and No, but I mean that's the thing Just finding out about these forums, um, you know, I saw the posting of the The preschool ones and I actually had that question of like are these open or not right and it wasn't explicit necessarily on there So, um, I just use I would love to volunteer my services and I'm sure everybody else on this I guess I won't speak for you, but I as a parent of preschoolers Please don't hesitate to forward us any information that we can help get out to our Our communities because I I've been learning about some of them myself as a community member Rather than as a school committee member, but I'd be happy to use my role as a school committee member to get out the word Yeah Sorry, there's one other piece that I mentioned the feedback I've received so far is that it'd be helpful to have one morning meeting and then one Afternoon or early evening meeting not not our typical start times necessarily for school committee, but sort of late afternoon Uh meeting and that's the feedback I've gotten that if we did two duplicated sessions But different families that's going to work a little differently for particularly for families with young children um That was the feedback I received today and the last week One other idea just like at the jones library. There's sing with your baby, you know And I could just imagine that would be a really good time to piggyback on or even just go there and have somebody there giving out information I mean there are these community events that Reliably draw large numbers of your parents would even this weekend like at the amherst Family crafts thing is is there gonna be any I'm not saying It's short it's short notice to do something like that But there are these events that um might be a good place to kind of just Have a presence even if it's just some that even if it's one of us, you know Yeah, be there and be like happy to answer your question I don't know if that's a role you want the school committee to do But I feel like we've Been through this process with you and maybe we shouldn't be sharing information about it in this way But if there's brochures, we can just hand out or just have a presence there. I'd be happy to I'd be very open to sharing the work I mean, I think to my point earlier, right There's five or six of us doing this between multiple preschools and multiple sites and the more people who can share it out And at this point, you know, again when I was describing the format earlier It's because we're a certain way along the path and there's still lots of opportunities for people to share So it is much more conversational getting feedback It's not that we're we don't have any idea what we're talking about But I think, you know, I'd like to think about the forums happening after the ninth when we are very much more public about Here's what the academic I mean, I think for the average parent That's the much more than the communication much more for the resources That's the piece that they're going to want to see what does that day actually look like for my child Who would my child's teachers be? What subjects would be divided how right those are the kind of things that the questions I receive now So I was anticipating trying to do those forums After the ninth so that we're We're satisfying those questions a bit more than we can at the moment And getting feedback authentic that's a little different than we can before we present something And I think just to add to that last point um, you know to me, I think there's there's um A distinction that we need to make too with providing information soliciting information soliciting feedback Right and the forums can help play that role because obviously you're having that conversation In real time with families in the community And I think that you know part of the This agenda item was also just to think about A few of the other items that we've been talking about that we want to bring to the community and solicit some of that feedback on right So I think dual language is definitely one of those things that a lot of people are really excited about But we we also have to communicate with a lot of families to let them know that This won't apply to them necessarily right this is going to be you know for you know At least in the beginning and probably for quite some time for much younger children coming in to the school system And so if there is an expectation or a hope that some community members and families are holding on to that Their kids may be able to you know to do this We have to to be able to share with them that that's not going to be a case We also want to share with them, you know again the magnet school idea that we've been talking about You know for wildwood and for crocker farm like what does that look like So that's an opportunity to share information and also get their thinking back on that to see if that makes sense We're not going to hear a lot of those presentations until the spring But at least floating the idea and getting some input you know seems to make a lot of sense at this point in time But then I just want to bring the committee back to the the question that we raised earlier about the regionalization with That you know, this is an opportunity if we were to have imagine a larger forum, you know Among the community and I'm just I'm actually I think it's a question for us to think about Would we want to do something like that where we actually raise Several of these different issues or questions that we're currently grappling with Um and not just you know, I think strictly speaking can provide us with a lot of good information It's also just another touch point with the community, right where they don't necessarily if they're not coming to a meeting They don't get to hear from us. They don't get to see what we're thinking talking about You know a forum offers that more informal kind of opportunity. It's like a you know A town hall, I guess that you'd think about with a lot of Uh, you know elected officials that will hold in their campaigning. We're not campaigning clearly But we we are you know eager to hear from the community on a bunch of different things. So With that, uh, mr. Nakajima and miss mcdonald. So, uh, um, I think I understand better what we're talking about than I did at the beginning. I feel like I missed a meeting or something It was also confused Well, I let's not shoehorn everything into every meeting I think the I think the idea of engaging the public and doing forums Over the course of this coming year is a really good goal for us to have as a committee Um, they're going to be different topics. I think that'll be right For discussion at different points Um, just for example, I don't even know how we didn't I don't know how we would get through this year And survive as committee members if we didn't at some point have a discussion with the public around capital And improvements to the buildings right but we're obviously utterly unprepared. I mean, I don't mean in a negative way We just started talking about needing to do this tonight We know we can't even have that conversation probably until late winter or something like that or whatever It's something like that time frame So that would be a good time to have that discussion around facilities facilities plan And how we're approaching that that's also something where a lot of the work we're doing to be further down the line Um, but obviously we should be doing to a language Next month. I mean, I still think I still think though And this goes to something that Mr. Jones is just saying The the conversations we had previously around how wildwood and crocker were sort of internally thinking through their aspirations Seems to do In terms of where it intersects with the public conversation And I think we need to find different ways of talking about it because I worry especially with the comment they made around We're talking about kindergartners next fall. Maybe in like two sections or something like that That leaves out an awful lot leaves almost all Kids in our district and families in our district And so we've got to have a conversation where even if it's being alluded to discussed previewed We've got to do something even at these early forums to to engage people around the fact that there is More going on than just this So I I love I I personally love the idea of having sort of multi-topic forums um, because I think that There's a lot of people that are a little bit interested in multiple topics But not enough to sort of get out and go out to the high school or the middle school at 7 o'clock on a weeknight to hear about Just one thing or to ask their one question that they have and I think sort of pooling a couple topics together on you know, I'll select the idea of the sort of maybe a quarterly basis That thing rotating topics could be really interesting That can get more people engaged here a little bit about multiple things And might encourage folks to engage more because they're they're not committing and you know a weeknight to just one Thing but they'll hear a little bit about several things that they're really curious and interested in about um, and I do think pairing the regional elementary regionalization is a good one because I I do get the sense that It's it's abstract How is it going to impact me and people aren't really engaging in it and The idea of drawing people into that conversation just on regionalization seems like will have a small group and yet Everybody's going to be a little bit interested in that topic as well So I do like the idea and I for some reason it popped in my head the c-pack event that was here You know having stations right so it could be a true forum Or it could be sort of a round robin station set up and sort of a give and take and people can sort of move around And have conversations or formal presentation in q&a So I think having the multi-topics opens up sort of other creative ways to really engage Personally with that's a community So, um, yeah, I really like that idea that sort of the idea of like having a regularly pulsed opportunity for the community to engage with the school committee Uh on an informal basis and people talk all the time about how it's great that you have public comment But it's really a strained structure. You know, it's not the most Conducive to harmonious back and forth dialogue because there is no back and forth dialogue, right? And I have great conversations with members of the community about school committee topics But that's just because I meet them somewhere or I know them and then we have like an in-depth back and forth So wouldn't it be great if everybody had that opportunity and didn't have to like, you know Have a personal relationship with the school committee member or um, or be so Intensely affected by one issue that you would get the babysitter and move out And and I think also, you know, increasing the visibility of the school committee and not for our own personal education but But we're the interface with with what's going on in the schools and so Whether it's um, you know, I I think it can be it can be done where you say, okay The primary theme of tonight is dual language and you give a short like a five minute Something a react to thing and then um, yeah, and then open it up for q&a or you give two Really short presentations, then you open it up to q&a and have it back and forth. I'm I'm thinking about the um The time when we did do this a year Was a year ago now? Um on the the school building port rivers feasibility study committee and we had forums. Yeah Yeah, and that was interesting because it was still in a fairly tense time After the school building project and so there was there was that extra layer of But even then I I thought people reacted to it Positively it and more of an open-ended flow than obviously a strict agenda has and So yeah, I really like that and i'm climbing this challenge. Dr. Jima said he was confused as well because He started talking about preschool outreach and I didn't know what we're talking about but so Yeah, so maybe we can continue this conversation. Um As I go back and so next week we're talking about public forums and how we engage that and I could certainly imagine Like both things happening, you know, we have something very specific about Utilization and yet we also try and piggyback off of a school committee. Um more open-ended forum Yeah, the only caveat I'd put on it. Sorry. I'm doing a lot of that tonight, but um Is that I think the distinction between some of these items into a language is there's a vote And so one thing I'm hearing in the community is like when is a vote happening and how do I influence a vote and so I get the piece and I get the concern about, you know, we're not talking about wildwood and and crocker farm as much at the moment I think things will shift after a vote happens. Um, but I do think A lot of the resources are being marshaled To do the work that gets Myself as well as you know, hopefully the community and you all Comfortable with moving forward with that and so I think that's the tension point for me Is not that at the exclusion of those schools, but how many things can we fit an agenda? How many things can we present and I know it's I'm pushing a false dichotomy to a certain extent But there is some element of what I'm hearing in the community It's not that people are dissatisfied of wildwood or Crocker farm, but people are like is this going to happen like what I said earlier and I think that's Perhaps the only caution point about combining it is a multi topic is that That's a single topic issue that some people are only going to come because that's the topic because they want to influence Or voice concerns or support or whatever they want to do on something That's a formal vote of the school committee as part of a normal agenda that would occur So to me, this is like a Communications or a rhetoric challenge, right? Um, I just think at the beginning I I don't disagree. I don't disagree about focusing on dual language and maybe regionalization is two more topics, let's say But I don't see any reason Why I mean so the question is if you have a 15 slide deck You can mention the fact we're doing planning with crocker and wildwood on slide 14 right after people are already like Zoned out and basically everything they've learned And then it both looks feels and acts like an afterthought right Um, or at the beginning you can say they're really exciting things happening right at all three of our elementary schools And who knows maybe it'll be a fourth one in your future, but we'll get to that in a few minutes And you know and and here's what they are Um in in november or december or whenever it's going to be we're going to come back to you with what's going on A crocker or wildwood And we're really excited about it, but tonight we really are trying to focus on and I think if that framing happens that way Then everyone gets it. They they hear what's going on, but they also feel valued and they say oh, okay There's there is something going on and you know Agreed so to me. That's so I put it on slide one. That's like 14. Yeah. Yeah, and just frame it out that way Yeah, makes a lot of sense Can I ask a logistical question about forums um an open meeting law I guess part of you know The reason we do the things we the way we do them is to be in compliance with that and so with these forums if Would we have to make sure we don't have a quorum of us there? Or just call call a meeting we call a meeting and then do we need to have minutes taken at the meeting and so so they're just going to be Or it looks like maybe you've got a response. Yeah, there's a policy Yeah, about forums and so we would be called as a meeting of the amherst school committee There would be you know, it's taken and you'd be able to participate in that but it would be like, you know formally agendaed The notes are often for forums or not They're a little different because we're mostly hearing from the public as opposed to having conversations but um Just as a follow-up to that so then we would have to kind of set a boundary on what we're going to talk about We couldn't hold it as a forum where come meet your school committee members and we'll answer your questions about the amherst public schools We'd have to be like we're talking about dual language. We're talking about Regionalization and we're talking about x and if anybody brought up an issue that was outside of that we could We couldn't really have the back and forth that we'd like to have It's I just want to make sure I understand that so here's the boundaries of Yeah, here's what I remember from in dr. Murris will correct me if I'm wrong with the the form that we did last year as mr. Deming mentioned And it was following the school building project vote The idea was that the You know public comment was open for pretty much anything that that folks wanted to talk about we may or may not respond But we have a you know set agenda in the sense that we are asking the community to come and talk about specific topics But they can pretty much bring up anything that we want that would that they want so I think in that sense it functions a little bit differently than Meetings, although, you know, we do the same thing with our public comments right too, right? So I think also that if If you have an identified section for q&a on an agenda and The public asks a question And there's a straightforward answer to it You can absolutely answer the question And that's not a violation of a meeting The challenge gets to when you're actually starting to discuss or debate So so it's the challenge is you've got to be like really careful You've got to really only answer the factual question directly Because like if I if I do that then I editorialize at the end of that. Mr. Demling raises his hand And he starts, you know, and I don't mean there's a negative or an argument I'm just saying you start all pining on my little editorial then then we're dead So, you know, just to remind us of those before we hold any of these I think That's a that's a valid point. Yeah, I think so in the interest of time just looking You know, we still have a few other agenda items to get through I'm wondering if maybe it makes sense for the committee for us to come back You know, I'm happy to work with dr. Morris or somebody else wants to volunteer into this too Is just to take a look at, you know, some possible options For forum planning. So maybe it's putting together a couple of ideas for the committee to chew on We can talk about it our next meeting spend a few minutes thinking about what kind of format makes the most sense Um, and then we can go from there. Does that does that work? I'll also send the policy that I was referencing to the our school committee to all of you so that you can Meet through what the policy has because it is actually quite helpful to look through In my opinion. Thank you Okay, thank you. We're showing you get some more feedback. It feels like at this point I think it's giving me a message Okay, so uh, uh, the next topic for discussion is a discussion of recent election day procedures And I think this is a fairly short item, but it's a letter that's in your pocket And dr. Morris will let you Sure, so this is a letter that um in my conversation with the chair You know, we wanted to we decided to be good to bring up here People can either decide to vote and support the letter or not. That's certainly the committee's Discussion, it'll be sent regardless and I'll have the signatures of myself and three elementary principles on it and Without belaboring the point because of the hour there were multiple problems that emerged in the september 4th Election at our site and they weren't the typical patterns the problems that we've had before that We felt like we're manageable and we work for the town particularly a crock of farm to manage they really were that candidates were Using their constitutional right to be within the right amount of distance from the voting precincts More historically, we've never had that everyone is sort of respected that we don't want People we don't have query checks on in front of the schools and there's no critique It's just been the past practice that people would often be you may have seen them at the entrance of the school buildings So we had multiple situations with candidates or candidates proxies more often actually being Directly on the school in front of the school buildings If you're very candid we had some challenging conversations about Yes, 150 feet or whatever it is But you know, that's not an okay 150 feet because approximately students The only thing I could say about the saving grace of the heat at the beginning of the school year is we didn't have outdoor recess If we had outdoor recess we would have to put multiple other Systems in place we had multiple conversations with the town clerk that day. It was incredibly responsive to me and principles so I want to compliment her but In my opinion and the principles the time has come where we just say we're not going to have this at our elementary schools If if candidates are going to be on site From our opinion, it's a safety risk That this doesn't outweigh looking at other options other communities and I've talked to the town clerk about this And she she knows about it. She came from the town clerk elsewhere have other voting precincts and other ways to do this I'm certainly not an expert on a solution except I don't want the status quo to continue I also think it's worth noting this is not a concern for November 6th Which is the next major election because students are not present. It's a professional development day We put that in place around this very topic, but The town manager and town manager knows this coming like there's no Like totally transparent. They know that's on the you know, mr. Bachman knows this is on the agenda tonight But the principles and I felt very strongly about the this has now become a safety risk for students and We think the town needs to figure out another solution Stanley I moved to endorse the letter from superintendent Morris to our town manager in town clerk second Any further discussion sure I was I was at for river on a couple of occasions and I was We blunt startled to see that there were candidates and campaigns over by the gymnasium entrance Where I'd never seen people standing before and I guess I guess previously the voting entrance is on the other side The building uh, it was it was on the music room, which was yeah, yeah the side of the building um But even then you didn't see people standing out in front of the music room or whatever or what I wanted to see if He would be and so I thought it was to use the colloquial expression messed up and It's interesting to me because I saw it as also being a function The reason why it's a worthy letter to send back to the motion that was made Is is that it was a combination of To blunt a bunch of the writing candidates and stuff that we're Really trying to get the message out about the procedure for voting and then also a bunch of town council people running and What that just points to is that in the future We may have just a lot of candidates running for a lot of stuff In places and people who are very enthusiastic and it's all well intended on their part And hopefully it'll always be well intended on their part, but It's messed up I just have a simple question and it um, I Support the the the letter so don't take my question the wrong way But you mentioned that the upcoming election. There's no school So kids aren't the students aren't going to be there. Is that an option as an alternative to not having the polling places at the schools So, um, it's an option if we had one election each school year But the way our primary system works is we're guaranteed to have and this this was unusual because of the Jewish holidays And the election calendar shifted, but we typically will have primaries And then full elections and we don't have enough PD days to go around. Yeah, I also don't love No, I'm gonna leave it there. Yeah, but yeah That's my answer Any other questions or comments? We're ready for vote All those in favor Okay, it's unanimous Thank you very much and I'll keep you keep the committee abreast of any developments. Thank you stem for us So, uh, dr. Morris, my name's on here as a chair for the the committee Do we need to put the committee listed on there is my name enough as a chair What I was thinking I'd ask miss miss woolen to do is um, just add one sentence with the committee's approval that says that this Letter was supported by an anonymous vote of the emmer school committee and then I think your signature will be sufficient to Respond, but I think that one sentence For yes, that's good. Okay. Great. Yeah, thank you. Get in touch with you. Just the signature and we'll get it off Thank you very much Okay, uh next item on the agenda is a big one. Um, this is related to charter school Our local charter schools that has multiple times now requested expansion From the state and I think mr. Demling you have Been meeting this conversation for the committee. So I'm going to turn it over to you Uh, because I understand you've prepared some materials for us. Yeah, so yeah, thank you So I could have gone one way which is a presentation as long as the uh proposal to expand Um, but I decided to offer a couple of slides at this point. Um, so Uh, if so you have the electronic version of the proposal It's it's very long. And so I tried to distill Two things one, what's the financial impact to our district? and then two What's going on with this whole equity piece that is, um Promoted as the reason for the expansion. So, um, I wanted I wanted that as like kind of a shared basis of information Um, so we can talk about you know, what we do going forward So just so the first slide on the financial impact to Amherst So the expansion as proposed immediately doubles the number of kindergarten classes from two to four This is like specifically laid out on the proposal So at at their class sizes, which has been consistent the last A few years that's an additional 44 seats that gets added on every year, right? So in Less than a year from now, they would have expand from two to four kindergarten classes than the next Um kindergarten class coming in the year after that expands from two to four So they're they're adding an additional 44 seats every year until they get Um for seven years, um So what's the impact to our district? Well, so right now 23 percent of the school's k to six enrollment comes from Amherst So if you if you just presume for the moment, uh, they draw at the same rate That takes an additional 10 students from Amherst every year um And if you look at the rates of charter tuition that we're spending it creates an immediate charter tuition increase So starting next fall of another 200 3 7 10 turn 3 000 And then an additional similarly sized increase every year until we eventually hit the state maximum Which is nine percent of our school spending. So right now. We're at last year. It was 1.4 1.5 million approximately charter tuition We have another 600 ish to go before we hit the The 2.1 million um 9 cap um So that's that's the impact. Um, so it really is like a second charter school opening from the perspective of our district Um, and the way that the process works, you know, if you followed it last year Um, the expansion can be proposed every single year until it passes once it passes. That's it so Um, you know, not just somewhere to you know 10 years ago The school committee had one opportunity to oppose the expansion was unsuccessful This is our one opportunity to influence the process So those are kind of the stakes for for our district, which I mean every year we want to oppose charter expansion, but this is particularly uh targeted To our budget. So so the next slide um What's really hard to understand is um Is the reasoning for this so on the first page of the proposal um I'm just quoting the text from the proposal is that the board is making the change to satisfy unmet demand for seats expand opportunity for students to attend desegregated integrated public schools Uh an increased integration of staffing pvc has proven to be An engine of integration in handshift county. So That's the reasoning for the expansion. So I just compare this to the available data from desi. So um, there's rhetoric the last couple of years talking about um Our responses and responses from other school districts and the public about opposition mythology and and talking about myths. This is just The data it's this straight up data I've sourced it all so anybody can reproduce it if they want and the three bars you're looking at here It's a little hard to look at in the black and white, but but the top bar is the average um the percentage uh in in the service region. So our charter school has Uh an identified number of towns that it services and there's 30 odd Towns for pvc. So the average percentage of high-need students is so for using the top example is 59.2 and high needs as a technical term it means special ed or uh economically disadvantaged or el or el within the previous two years So it rolls those up Um, the second bar is the comparison index So the department of ed derives this comparison index, which they say is a more statistically relevant Bar that where a charter school should be you'll notice that in every case. It's uh quite a bit lower than the average of the region Um, so it's it's a fairly conservative bar Um, and then the third is is is the school and so you see with the high needs population the low income Hispanic special ed el Um, they're they're below and in some cases far far below um So, you know, the juxtaposition of this data and and and this claim for expansion It would be comical if if the if the consequences weren't so serious Um, so, you know, we we hope that the new commissioner, uh, we'll listen to reasons. So the process is that you know Um, the public and committees and boards have the opportunity at least until november 1st We haven't heard if the deadline is later. It may be At least until november 1st. We provide input to the commissioner and the commissioner will Make a ruling if if he does not approve the expansion the school almost certainly appeal to the board and then there's another Appeal there. So, you know, hopefully the idea that the lottery is no excuse for these kinds of disparities that That the schools have an obligation for recruitment and retention of all these subgroups Um, we'll we'll resonate with commissioner. Um, as as hopefully the desi's past statements, um rejecting the expansions Saying why, um Talking about that they're not servicing the the population um But it's it's it's to me just shocking The the the audacity of this statement to To have that be the data to have been told repeatedly by the department What you need to do to correct and then to attack public schools in this way It's it's it's appalling and so so yes, we should write our reason letter We should we should make the data case. We should give the commissioner the opportunity to see reason, but I feel like You know, we we need to do everything we can to To be frank sound the alarm in our community Um, and and in the other communities about about what this is because what what they're saying is wrong It's it's wrong what they're claiming. It's it's it's wrong to educate some children at the expense of others And and and uh, and and it's it's wrong not to call it out. And so I I hope that we can You know prevail on this, but I feel like something has to happen differently than just some letters and You know this the the same level of advocacy in the past years Judge morris. Yeah, so just I'll make three brief comments. Um, my understanding from desi Well, it's not final is I do believe that november 1st deadline will probably hold this year they're trying to expedite that process and so probably It's not specific to this charter expansion, but for all charter expansions to be Um, heard by the board sooner at an earlier date in the calendar year than it has been the last couple So if you extrapolate what I'm extrapolating from that, it's probably that the october 1st or the november 1st deadline will probably hold in terms of feedback The second thing and and mr. Dunlinks said it But I want to put a finer point on it one key difference between this proposal as Prior as compared to prior three is those are mostly focused on the high expanding the secondary population This is expanding the elementary population for the hammers public schools The impact is much greater in this proposal If it was followed if it was supported as opposed to the last few And the final point and it's sort of just a different way to say what mr. Dunlinks saying, but it's I think it's worth stating So there's um, if you look in the report, uh, or the the um, their application they have to present on the demographics and then gap closing targets in other words because they're not in all of these areas. They're not at the Um, the comparison index. There's a there's an index that's formed to say, okay Well, we don't expect you to get there immediately. What's a reasonable path that you can That the schools can change that gap index and and the gap between Their gap index keeps growing in other words The steps that one would take logically to get to where desi is asking them to go Is expanding where they are and where they theoretically should be on that slope Continues to expand year after year after year. So um, and I can highlight that a little more I'm going to write about that in my letter which I'll share with the committee But it's in there. It's not any math that I'm doing I love the charts that mr. Dunlinks does it's no critique But it's literally in their expansion proposal because they're required to do that You can see that the gap of the demographics from what it Needs to be from desi setting those gap closing targets Is uh expanding to the point where I don't I I wonder if it's even possible to make up the gaps because they're getting so large So um, and that's not again that's directly in their expansion proposals not On desi's website. It's directly there So do we have a uh target for when we're going to have a letter before the committee to approve and send off Well, I mean, I think it's clearly before uh, november 1st But we've got two meetings in october set october 9th and october Probably a 16th will change. Yeah. Yeah, um, but most likely two two meetings, so We've got until then So we should probably get a drafted by the ninth so that we can review it revise it and approve it No later than the following meeting I think that sounds reasonable to me I do I do want to just you know add to that and mr. Dunlinks point about you know, maybe Another level of advocacy is needed I think that what we've been hearing from other school committees in the region Is that they're equally as concerned? And that could potentially turn into, you know, um a higher level of advocacy both, you know, some sort of joint effort or Who knows right? We you know, no idea But I think that there's an opportunity to help educate the community and help educate the public and You know and if the community is interested in participating in this and I hope they are because they should be able to see sort of the natural you know sequence of events that leads to You know the hurting our schools if this expansion goes through Um, that hopefully the public will also get involved and want to take some action, you know, but I think um, what I'm hopeful for is that we see some You know parents and families and community members of public school students Uh not to attack families that have chosen to go to the charter school But instead to help send the strong message to the commissioner that this expansion is it is hugely problematic for our community Uh and ends up taking away from from our schools, you know, so I'm not sure what that translates into at this level for the committee I think individually we probably all have our own thoughts and ideas on how we might be able to you know help uh Share information and share resources and all that but to the degree possible that we can at this committee level I guess writing a letter Uh, you know having these this on the agenda at our at our meetings and talking with uh with members of the public about You know what this means is helpful Mr. Napa Jima, so no, I was asking just because I think to me the I mean one I'm gonna was I'm gonna I don't know what the commissioner will do and that that's a big open question because it's a new commissioner I'm going to assume the board is not going to end up being happy with pvc scs Only because they seem to be increasingly irritated year-over-year that the that the school doesn't seem to be listening to them and so um You know, I there to me there's two different levels of advocacy one is communicating from our committee or the superintendent and By definition that ends up being a more button-down kind of communication Then one might otherwise want to do just because it's what's appropriate And also most likely to convince them to agree with us And I think things like this slide and what superintendent talk about makes sense I just wanted to know what the calendar for that was so we don't lose the force for the trees Because we actually do need to write a letter Review it approve it and submit it and that's sort of one thing. I think beyond that. I think the idea I mean I I think and I think we've heard this from town meeting when we went before town meeting with the resolution or whatever it was that Um, I think I think they should be a teachable moment I think there's a we can have a letter opposing this I think we should be using this as a teachable moment to the broader issues of what's wrong with How we're organizing organizing and funding charter schools because there's sort of two related but discrete issues one is the resegregation of our schools And the pernicious way in which the the way charter schools are organized are are leaving out and Balkanizing our populations in ways that are really Unfair to the kids and the families but also unfair to the traditional public school districts. The other issue is it's um It's it's it's putting enormous pressure on our towns our town budgets I mean just enormous pressure that pops up everywhere You know if you think about a lot of the pressure we have in our traditional municipal budget Some of it's because of Of these pressures we're having here and then even we get I know this is a elementary and not a regional meeting but The levered elementary school continues to be a source of like major attack and conflict within leverant and that spills over to the regional assessment regional budgets Most of that issue. Yes, they're underlying philosophical issues Educationally, I guarantee you if we had another two or three million bucks kicking around That money would grease a lot of disagreements so that they weren't popping up in the way that they are now And so this is this it The reality is we need to use I think we should be using this to teach a moment To really attack the entire way in which this is this is affecting our local budgets property taxpayers in schools and we should be organizing with select boards and finance committees In the entire what is it called? These full service region And the entire full service region and we should be calling on people to write letters But also we should have the support of all the political leaders all the local committees and boards all collectively sending a message That enough's enough Just one one Thought to add in in that campaign and I don't know if it's appropriate in a letter to desi because I don't know sort of how they make what facts and and criteria they look to at to make their decision on this Following what they've asked them to do was probably a big one, but they um for me what really stuck out was the $200,000 and I think you know when in a teachable moment when we're talking about the broader community spelling that out and putting that into context as to What proportion what's the opportunity cost of that 200,000 right? What what what can we not do if we don't have that in our budget because I I think everybody recognizes It's a it's a large sum of money But it's also at the point where like it's really hard to grasp what that means and what that looks like Oh, it's 200, you know, there's x million dollars in the budget, you know, we'll probably you know Miss some after school project or something But I think it's putting that into that context and from a percentage, but also the opportunity cost I think can really help us particularly when we're looking at all of these big budget items Um, you know infrastructure things that we all have big price tags, right? I think You know that really impacts us Uh, actually no, no, please. Yeah I guess my only comment was I feel like one of our allies Would be other local elected officials and given that right now we're in this weird country where We have multiple seats where we have people who we know will I guess for now we have Solomon But I mean we've got so many people who are running for town council so um I don't think town I'm just trying to think of how we can get these voices To align with ours and potentially it's a little bit more challenging because some of them are not yet seated in their positions or their lame ducks or They're actively running But if there's a way that all of us as we're Out in Amherst can try to get at least the conversation that's happening in During these all because there's so much political activity right now that if there's a way we can insert this Conversation into it and getting people to come out publicly either, you know, obviously for Opposing this I think we should all be asking our town council candidates. How do you feel about this? and then if we can trying to Push those who are about to be seated in their new positions But I mean the election's not even gonna happen by the time we need to do this So it's just too bad that we don't have that clear Pathway, but if we can I think we should try to get it to be part of any forums that are going on or any Conversations they can still write letters. Yeah, no, we should but we should be asking them to and take a public stance Yeah So just on the first point or one of the points, um I think the the dollar amount matters a lot to the community My personal experiences that is not a As salient appointed desi as it is to So like for instance the fact that charter reimbursements wildly underfunded. That's not desi You know They agree that that's a problem even the most ardent charter supporter desi agrees that that's a problem But it's not a problem. They can solve. It's a legislature problem. Never, you know, that's who so, um, I think that tricky balance in some of this is it's okay to mention that but I that's true for every community where any charter school is trying to be either settled or expanded like if you fell out west springfield of the last year that's been A complicated situation For a whole host of reasons actually So I think it's okay to mention, but I wouldn't have that be the lead Because I don't think there's people who have a very different educational philosophy from those of us. I think in the room who See choice as a Panacea to write and they could write and so and a lot of those people are the people who are Going to be reading this So I just I hope you ask it as a question as an open question. I wanted to answer from just from my experience On the other piece. I do think there's other elected officials both in amersand neighboring communities I know that in the past there were multiple communities including some of the members of the regional towns and otherwise So I do think there's an opportunity if the committee wants that's a logical way to get More communities involved. I know desi reads The num and looks at the number of communities who have weighed in pro or con I've been at meetings where they say well, we didn't hear we didn't get any letters from any superintendents or school committees on this Expansion to this new charter and that matters for them. So I don't want to minimize the impact of a letter that the amerschool committee might have but I also don't want to Minimize the impact that Other school communities might just need to be reminded they might not be having this conversation tonight And that they might feel equally as passionately, but they just perhaps need to be connected to the cost I think we should actively organize. I mean, I think we should you know, we have there's got to be a Sheddling probably has a list of all the towns that are in the what is it coming in full service region Let's list them and let's go out and let's let's affirmatively engage The different political actors and bodies Of those places and let's get them to see if they're willing to sign on I think I think there should be two different messages one This is why I asked what the letter to begin with I already knew that the letter that goes to desi or besi Needs to be no the board or the or the department. Yeah, so I meant what I said as dumb as it sounded That the letter that goes to them needs to be drained of the fiscal stuff and only focus on like the The service issues and you know, and the what you said the Gap to closing the gap the gap the increasing gap to closing the gap and all that kind of stuff And there's lots we can throw in there that'll be really good I actually as a matter of the public discussion. I completely disagree with you I think the public discussion to get I mean, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to argue with you Whether you meant to or not what I'm simply saying is the public strategy To engage the select boards finance committees other school committees and then parents the public at large Should absolutely go after the fiscal issue as well as The resegregation pedagogical educational program issues. I mean, we should absolutely go after both of them. Yeah, that's what I was trying to say Perhaps not that's particularly as I'd like So mr. Dunley, and then I think we need to wrap this yeah, so just couple of my points. Um, so What the board's disposition in is really an open question like they have expressed frustration in the past. They've also expressed Ideological support and that board is shifting over time and more Baker appointees go on as a whole tangent on Republican conservative privatization that it will not go into right now But that's shifting right and so um, we can't We can't bank on the fact that they're just going to be like oh here. They are again Thus the reason for additional Creating additional external visible political pressure and not just oh, there's the number of letters But like oh look this guided in the news The here's these new state reps that are are pounding the pavement and saying like this, you know That being being loud and heard um and in terms of engaging like the local candidates and how we do that Um, I actually think most of the political attention in town right now is focused on those town council candidates So let's make this an issue and not like an issue in terms of like what do you support? But bring it up right and let's let's have Saying because it affects the municipal side of things as well Even if you don't care about the second slide, you know There's hundreds of thousands of dollars that are leaving that the town would have to fill fill the gap and not be filling yet on other things Um, and you know for a lot of the town candidates, they're green and they don't understand all the mechanisms yet of of town finances And how it relates to schools So it's an educational opportunity for them as well. And so while the public is paying paying attention to these campaigns Let's let's make that as as much as possible part of that So just to uh wrap up this conversation I think that you know what we formally can do here in the committee is as mr. Nakajima mentioned before and as we've done Previously is to prepare a letter um have that letter, you know signed by whomever here in the committee wants to do that So we'll work on draft um Mr. Dimling i'm looking to you to Help us put together something that has all the data and everything that we need in there Um, and then I think we can you know share Individually with with committee members, you know if there's other opportunities for You know engaging the public or doing other things like that that we can we can do that So is that um, is that work for? Okay Okay, thank you very much uh, so moving on we uh Are on to gifts And we have some gifts. It looks like very neat ones. Yes. Those are great gifts I will take a motion if anybody wants to I move that the uh in our school committee accept the following gifts as specified Sanjero Wadi and mary clark supplement our budget for for river singer 500 dollars Stacy Leonard steven succanian Family center summer student assistance 500 dollars Amherst educational foundation year-round garden project wildwood for river and crocker farm $2,500 sanjero wadi for river pgo fundraiser pgo purchased 30 sets of cross-country skis and storage units at a cost of 22,523 dollars in southern poverty law teaching tolerance educator grant For elementary the amount of $5,000 for a total number of gifts amount of gifts of 11,023 dollars Take a second Any comments all those in favor to accept the gifts? Thank you very much And thank you to everyone who uh, just made some generous donations. I really appreciate it Uh, okay, so school committee planning Yeah, um, so if you look at um, try to fill in this calendar document which hopefully everyone has in front of them So for the next meeting in the night We had kind of as I mentioned earlier the academic program for dual language It seems like we need to come back. So we had communication for the forums Parker from space needs it's a topic. We said we'd come back to PVC ICS letters not written on there, but I added it and handwriting dual language zoning I'm starting to feel like this meeting is getting overwhelming with terms of agenda topics So we'll think about that and the goals. I'll have a draft of Last year 10 meeting approved additional funds 15,000 And we said we'd come back to talking about that that it was too preliminary to have that conversation So we feel like we have enough information to have that conversation The special education program so that group wants to get together Um, and the umass study can't happen on the 9th. So that should be crossed off which then leads to perhaps We're still waiting to get back from the town But the chair and I've talked about that instead of the 16th, perhaps the 22nd would be a meeting Where we would be able to receive the umass report perhaps in a joint way with the select board Um, and we put some other topics on there But I just want to highlight that they're the 16th. It's not possible to receive the umass report We don't want to wait too long to receive that on November So we may be moving the meeting of the 16th to the 22nd or some time Still wouldn't hear back from the the town about whether that would work Um So I assume we want to add in some update on meeting ends in this studio. Yeah I mean, how do people feel about not doing the zoning? On the 9th just given the quantity and quality of other topics and pushing that to be a larger topic on the 22nd or whatever that meeting is I'm just concerned that we'll get to that at 10 o'clock and Well, I have wondering if it could be move the Kroger farm space discussion to The later meeting Or is that I think that's actually going to be a very brief agenda item. Really? Yeah That's a little forecasting but um Or foreshadowing but it'll be a very brief agenda item I mean we have we have to do this vote though right on on dual language And I feel like the zoning piece is going to be a big part of that So the reason this was on here is because of the implications for the dual language piece because if we talked about well If Kroger farm runs out of space, then how do we where did the kids go? So that's why we put on I'm okay Putting it I'm totally fine moving it down My concern about the space at Kroger farm after meeting with mr. Shane walk in the building is it's not as high as it Was a couple weeks ago. So I'm fine moving it down Sorry just a question of clarification. So the the dual language vote is going to be on both The question of do we do this as well as how are we zoning it? So my understanding was that we decided to separate those two things So that we'd vote on kind of the programming Do we feel like the program is in place and those pieces and the resources needed and come back to the zoning for a vote Perhaps in the late fall early winter I thought that was the discussion and I could be remembering it wrong But I don't remember us separating it out completely because the two are connected Right. I mean, I think it was more about figuring out how we do it like the technical piece of it, but not Having it be too separate I mean, it's a question for the committee, right? Like, you know, if we're going to be voting on dual language programming Um, how separate do we want to have a conversation or not have a conversation around zoning? in relation to that I do feel like that Separate but maybe you know, maybe not too broadly temporarily, right? But I do feel like they're they're definitely related conversations But it's sort of cart before the horse if we're talking about zoning at the same time And we haven't really locked up and decided are we doing this? Are we moving forward? So it does feel It and you know, I don't want to assume but you know at all signs point to that You know lean more towards yes versus not But I I do feel like it's a it could be premature to be Finalizing a zoning decision before we've actually finalized all of the other pieces But does that happen on two separate meetings or in the same meeting separate votes? I that question. I don't know I guess my I guess my view would be I wonder whether these things have to be Entirely binary There may be a framework for how we're going to engage zoning That we would need to consider and vote Concurrent to approving the program moving forward That might not mean every little detail is worked out of the zoning proposal But but to me I've kind of said this before so I'm not saying anything really new um I think everyone wants to do this So the key of whether we do this or not boils down to whether we can figure out how feasible and pragmatic it is to implement right And so then to me putting off the discussion of zoning at least at least at a framework level of these are the basic way or pro or concept of how we're going to implement it Seems to me to be foolhardy because Since most of our concerns are pragmatic if we can't figure out a way to do the zoning Or you know the enrollment within that program that makes sense to everyone and gets broad support from the community Then we shouldn't be doing it That's that's what I understood as well. Yeah, that's fine with me.  Um I'll be honest to say at this point. Maybe it's some late and being too candid not much has changed in our thinking From where we were but I think we need to re-engage that at a larger level But think about what I mean I'm sorry to throw this out But just think about what I just said a moment ago that if there's a ways of chunking out How specific the plan you're putting forward for us It's what you've talked about with the whole thing, right? You've said this whole thing is going to be like this slow rolling movement towards implementing it It was some things aren't going to be finalized until like next august But but you're working on it every day, right? Yeah, that may be the same thing with zoning through february Or january or whatever But and that's okay So the question is what do what do we need to and I know that you know It's unfair because you can see like but why isn't the committee telling you what you want to know But I'm saying the point is the dialogue should be what do we need to know and decide By some november 5th, right to make this a reasonable and also responsible like on our part Like I don't want someone hate to say this. I don't want somebody a year from now being like What on earth were you thinking? Why didn't you like ask questions and think this through, right? Yeah, no that totally makes sense to me. Yeah Okay, I think we've exhausted this Exhausted might be the word this agenda. Yes, and we're exhausted so Dr. Morris you and I can meet later on and go through some of the finer points of the next meeting agendas And with that, um, I will take a motion Move to adjourn second Thank you all those in favor All right. Thank you very much Thanks to amherst media