And I'm riding 30,000 kilometers to activate support in regenerating soil from 21st of March for 100 days, the whole world, the top soil. Be a part of this and let us make it happen. What we are facing now is soil extinction. In most countries, more than 50% of the top soil is already gone. Every responsible scientist in the world is clearly saying by 2045, we will be producing 40% less food and our populations will be 9.2 billion. It is foolish to think that only the poor in the world will be affected. No, it will affect every human being on the planet because civilizations will collapse, civil wars will unfold once there is food shortage. This is not just about us because we are already using the soil of the unborn child. This is a terrible world that we are envisioning for ourselves and we are creating, but this can be turned around. This is why the save soil moment to bring about a policy change to regenerate soil in 192 democratic nations. As a part of this, I'm 65 and I'm riding 30,000 kilometers to activate support in regenerating soil from 21st of March for 100 days, the whole world to top soil. Be a part of this and let it make it happen. Change for media. Good morning, everybody. Thank you so much for being here.  Then you request you to please have some chai and coffee outside and thank you for all the members outside of request to show, can you please help bring them inside? Yeah, thank you. Advertising industry in India. The exchange for media group set up in 2000 has the most credible media platforms covering the entire advertising, media and marketing domain with its highly acclaimed digital, the advertising industry in India. The exchange for media group set up in 2000 has the most credible media platforms covering the entire advertising, media and marketing domain with its highly acclaimed digital, print and on-ground assets. The flagship news portal exchangeformedia.com reaches over 6 lakh subscribers who are the first to receive breaking news in the industry. The buzzing website not only covers the news but goes beyond the obvious to bring in a fresh point of view. Impact, a weekly news magazine from the group is the most widely read business magazine in the advertising trade within depth analysis and news based features providing perspective to key happenings in the industry. The monthly pitch magazine provides a ringside view of events unfolding in the marketing landscape along with media and advertising. Another monthly magazine, Realty Plus is a market leader in repertoire on the real estate industry. Today exchange for media is not only a leading publisher in the domain but owns the IP of more than 50 events spread across Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore making it a powerhouse of information and knowledge sharing. Exchange for media has curated and launched some of the most successful IPs across marketing, digital, TV, print, radio, mobile, OOH and PR. The impact person of the year, exchange for media conclave, Indian digital marketing awards, Tech Munch, Pitch CMO Summit, India marketing awards, Primetime awards, Indian content marketing awards, Golden Mics and the are some of the group's top notch events in addition to niche, bespoke events and round tables curated especially for discerning clients. Exchange for media events attracts tall watts as speakers along with a loyal audience comprising of leaders, trendsetters and opinion makers. They are the perfect networking platform for the entire media and advertising industry. No wonder exchange for media group publications and events have high credibility and reach and are the destination of choice for agency, brand and media professionals across the industry. Exchange for media Exchange for media a name synonymous with the latest news about the advertising industry in India. The exchange for media group set up in 2000 has the most credible media platforms covering the entire advertising, media and marketing domain with its highly acclaimed digital, print and on-ground assets. The group's flagship news portal, exchangeformedia.com reaches over 6 lakh subscribers who are the first to receive breaking news in the industry. Another monthly pitch magazine provides a ringside view of events unfolding in the marketing landscape along with media and advertising. Another monthly magazine, Realty Plus is a market leader in repretage on the real estate industry. Today, exchange for media is not only a leading publisher in the domain but owns the IP of more than 50 events spread across Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore making it a powerhouse of information and knowledge sharing. Exchange for media has curated and launched some of the most successful IPs across marketing – digital, TV, print, radio, mobile, OOH and PR. The impact person of the year, exchange for media conclave, Indian Digital Marketing Awards, Tech Munch, Pitch CMO Summit, India Marketing Awards, Prime Time Awards, Indian Content Marketing Awards, Golden Mikes and Ba are some of the group's top notch events in addition to niche, bespoke events and roundtables curated especially for discerning clients. Exchange for media events attracts tall warts as speakers along with a loyal audience comprising of leaders, trendsetters and opinion makers. They are the perfect networking platform for the entire media and advertising industry. No wonder exchange for media group publications and events have high credibility and reach and are the destination of choice for agency, brand and media professionals across the industry. Exchange for media. Exchange for media. A name synonymous. Good morning ladies and gentlemen and thank you for being here. My name is Aditya Malik and it's an honour to be a host of 4 Today. We've all assembled here to honour the media spokesperson who are pillars of our national and regional political parties. The list that we have arrived at today recognises and honours their skills and abilities to effectively deliver the respective parties' messages in a crowded, competitive 24 by 7 news environment, thus strengthening India's multi-party democracy. The selection was done by a board consisting of the editors of various exchange for media online and print publications and is led by Dr. Anirag Bhattra, Chairman and Editor-in-Chief of the Exchange for Media Group. The criteria for selection were quality of arguments, uniqueness of points, presentation style, credibility and visibility. The performance of the spokesperson was monitored by the research team of exchange for media throughout the year 2021 on these criteria. An analysis of the same was presented to the selection board in March 2022. This was followed by consultations with various stakeholders, editors of newspapers and television news channels, media educators, political leaders and media observers and experts, and analysis of the social media and other sources of content. Well, before we move forward, we would like to thank our partners for today, Exchange for Media Group, BW Business World and Save Soil, along with AVs for exchange for media group and BW Business World. We also have a video by Sadhguru founder, Isha Foundation, bringing your focus to a silent ecological disaster unfolding right under your toes. Soil extinction. Please pay attention to this as well. May I please request my team to play the partner's AV. Yeah, a name synonymous with the exchange for media group set up in 2000 has the most credible media platforms covering the entire advertising, media and marketing domain with its highly acclaimed digital, print and on-ground assets. The group's flagship news portal, exchangeformedia.com reaches over 6 lakh subscribers who are the first to receive breaking news in the industry. The buzzing website not only covers the news but goes beyond the obvious to bring in a fresh point of view. Impact, the weekly news magazine from the group is the most widely read business magazine in the advertising trade, with in-depth analysis and news-based features providing perspective to key happenings in the industry. The monthly pitch magazine provides a ringside view of events unfolding in the marketing landscape along with media and advertising. Another monthly magazine, Realty Plus is a market leader in repartage on the real estate industry. Today, exchangeformedia is not only a leading publisher in the domain but owns the IP of more than 50 events spread across Mumbai, Delhi and Bangalore, making it a powerhouse of information and knowledge sharing. Exchangeformedia has curated and launched some of the most successful IPs across marketing, digital, TV, print, radio, mobile, OOH and PR. The impact person of the year, exchangeformedia conclave, Indian Digital Marketing Awards, TechMunch, PitchCMO Summit, India Marketing Awards, Prime Time Awards, Indian Content Marketing Awards, Golden Mikes and Ba are some of the group's top notch events, in addition to niche, misspoke events and roundtables curated especially for discerning clients. Exchangeformedia events attract stalwarts as speakers along with the loyal audience comprising of leaders, trendsetters and opinion makers. They are the perfect networking platform for the entire media and advertising industry. No wonder exchangeformedia group publications and events have high credibility and reach and are the destination of choice for agency, brand and media professionals across the industry. Exchangeformedia. What we are facing now is soil extinction. In most countries, more than 50% of the top soil is already gone. Every responsible scientist in the world is clearly saying by 2045, we will be producing 40% less food and our populations will be 9.2 billion. It is foolish to think that only the poor in the world will be affected. No, it will affect every human being on the planet because civilizations will collapse, civil wars will unfold once there is food shortage. This is not just about us because we are already using the soil of the unborn child. This is a terrible world that we are envisioning for ourselves and we are creating, but this can be turned around. This is why the Save Soil movement to bring about a policy change to regenerate soil in 192 democratic nations. As a part of this, I'm 65 and I'm riding 30,000 kilometers to activate support in regenerating soil from 21st of March for 100 days. The whole world should talk about soil. Be a part of this and let us make it happen. Details about Save Soil and how you can also participate, please contact the team members who are present at the venue. You will also request everybody to tweet and share the winning moments and learnings from the day using the hashtag E4M Party Spokesperson 50. 4 and 50 are numeric. That's hashtag E4M Party Spokesperson 50. And now it's time to celebrate and congratulate some amazing Party Spokesperson. To begin with, may I please request Dr. Anurag Batra, Chairman and Editor-in-Chief, exchange for media and PW Business World to deliver the welcome address. Ladies and gentlemen, a big round of applause for him, please. Thank you, Aditya. Ram Ram, good morning. It's still morning. We started late, but this is the first year of this initiative. It has been done at a very short notice. Originally we were not doing it this week. We were doing it separately. We started going on this journey in December 2019 when we decided to do this knowledge-based exercise of ranking political Spokesperson. This is the first year. So I'd like to welcome all of you. Ms. Shama Muhammad from the Congress Party is here. Ms. Shweta Shalini is here. Ms. Taranguri is here. Ms. Charupragya is here. And I had gone out to take the call of one of the Spokesperson. Mr. Anurag Badoria is here. And this is the first year. And I can say that, you know, I feel like I was born yesterday.  This is the first year. We are honest. We may not be perfect.  Know my personality. I stay away from controversy. I try to do justice to my relationships. But I also try and be honest with whatever we do. It's a very tough. I've been on the text with a very close friend of mine. She's the editor of a news channel. And today morning, the winners of the hour shared. And she's not happy. She's been very gracious with me. But she's not happy. I know from her. And so, you know, I don't know if I should do the awards or not. I've been thinking for the first time. And now my daughter also applies in a lot of awards. When she doesn't win, it feels very bad. So I think a lot, sir. That's why I keep my hair down. So it is, you know, Mr. Sunil Kumar at about 3.30 will make a presentation. He's our president and he's the head of our E4M Insights. And I have called him like, Today morning, I called six big investors in the last three days. The big investors who are the investors of six top networks. And I asked them who is number one, who is number two, who is number three. And I asked them until 20th. And now I remember this ranking. I said 30th, and I can tell you, mostly first and second were the same. Apart from one investor, everyone said the first one was fine. One investor said the number two was number one. And then I called all channels which are supposed to be friendly to one side. I can tell you, I'll have to make a different list. If I talk about everything. I called Mr. Sunil, he said, everyone will have a perspective. It will be based on how much interaction they have with them. How many times they come on their channel. What is their channel stand. So next year, we'll put a jury to this also. And jury sign up. It lends another layer of credibility. I mean, ultimately, these are our awards.   So ultimately, our awards are. We know, but honestly, we want to do it. And we've looked at credibility. We've looked at content. We've looked at social media. There's a list of top 10. They say that one of their other parties doesn't come on TV that much. But when big things happen, that political spokesperson is fielded. Right. So again, Sunil is very knowledge oriented. I respect his view. And he has no good pro quo. He doesn't have relationships with those people. I may have with some. So I have to convince him if I have to. When I, you know, my team knows that I respect Sunil. If they say something, I don't contest them. Discuss. We debate, either he changes my mind or I change his mind. But you know, I respect him. It is the first year. It may not be perfect. We're open to criticism suggestions. But it is the first year and we are celebrating this as an adjunct event to our Inba, which is on Saturday. The Enby minister is the chief guest. Harimansi will preside over the function. The Enby minister will be there at six. We will start the awards at sharp six. And we'll possibly run it till about 9.30. Last year, they were started at six. Then they went on till 10.45. This year, we are not giving bronze on the stage. So, you know, we curtail the event. So who Imperial may or then may there is a huge conference on the business of news to contextualize what's happening on the business side. What's happening in the editorial side. So today it is a pioneering year. So, Shama Ji, Anurag Ji, Shweta Shalini Ji, Mr. You were calling me because of my WhatsApp. I'll see from two colors. And I wanted to return your phone. But it was an event yesterday. So I didn't return a lot of calls. I will return. You have come here but I will return more calls. So, this is the first year. Charu Prakya Ji, thank you for giving us your time. There is nothing bigger than time. Dua and time. You know, in COVID, I realized what my mother has told me for more than 50 years. Almost 50 years. I'll be 50 this year. In four months, I'll be 50. And, you know, health is wealth and time is money. I was 10 years old. And I want to tell you, my mother, I have an older sister who's four years older. My mother would say to my sister, her name is Sukirti. But her name, nickname is Bittu.  I mean, my parents gave that name. I have no contribution. And my nickname, you can guess, my name is Anurag. So, my name is Anu. In fact, some of my friends in the old days of the line-line would call. I was at my Maasi's home. I was in an engineering school. I was 19 years old. And one of my friends, Abhinav Didi, called the line-line and said, Can I speak with Anurag Bhattara? So, my Maasi said, There is no one here, Anurag Bhattara. So, my nickname is Anu. So, I told my Maasi, My name is Anurag Bhattara. So, you know, my mother would say to my sister and me, I still ask my sister, Can't you speak with Anurag Bhattara?  We are fine, we are fine, we are fine, we are fine. Thank God. But you know, as a grown-up, I have two children. I realize that we don't thank God for every small thing. But I thank, I am genuinely grateful to you for making time, for trusting us, for engaging with us. We may not be perfect, but we try to be honest. We are honest. We try to do it as honestly humanly possible. Rest we are human beings. I follow my friend Jaivir Shehgil. He is also my neighbor. I have not returned his call also but Jaivir, I am on events from tomorrow. Thank you for coming. So please give him some applause for all the spokespersons. And next year I will make a jewelry for the wealth. So you have to do something. Don't fight with me. And I have also told someone that next year you will share jewelry. And you know you respect him all of you. Yesterday we did the English Journal of 40 under 40 when you were calling me and 37 of the winners came. Their bosses came. Shireen was there. And Shireen is very busy. She works very hard. Her boss is a very close, ex-boss is a very close friend of mine. Sai Kumari was the group C of Network 18 is my closest friend. And he tells me about Shireen that Shireen is the most hardworking person in the network. She works 14 hours. She is only working. She works. She was there for 3 hours. And Priyanka was telling me last night to encourage, Sonia Singh was there to encourage the NDTV team and so on. And Mr. Sukumar of HT was the editor-in-chief. He is the editor-in-chief of HT. He was a jury chair. Uday Mahorkarji was the central information commissioner of India. He was the chief guest. Shri Yasaraviji was the 7th of TFC. I was the guest of honour. So 37 of them, 38 of them physically came at a 3-day notice. Today 30, in the evening at 6.30 in the multipurpose hall, the exchange for media team is there. Pankaj Sharma who is our founder of Samacharformedia.com. He is 15 years old. So Samachar for media. Vikas ji is also with us since 5-6 years. My media is from Kulse. And Rupika is also from my media school. He is our Anand Parashar ji. Today 37 of the 40 winners are physically coming online. So we have in that domain, we build that credibility over 21 plus years. And I think in the spokesperson domain also, we will improve. I am very confused. I was just testing on the list. So I am very confused. Being confused is a good thing. Sometimes people are too short of themselves. Someday I will like to be like that too. But you know I am always like and I am you know. So if your ranking comes up, please be nice to me. Please be nice. So I want to say because Sunil ji has done many things for me. But I believe in professionalism and we have used our parameters to make a presentation. You know it is a combination of, it is across, again a journalist pointed out, an editor pointed out that you are bringing English and Hindi together. You know there are two languages in both. I have met Jayavir after two and a half years. He is my neighbour. I have never met him. He has changed homes also. I have also changed homes. He built his family built a new home. But I, since I am Ram Ram, but I don't have to sit up every day. I have told him that next week I am coming to his home and having a cup of tea with him. He was offering me other things but you know, yes, yes. But I am not fond of other things. I am fond of eating though. So you know, I just want to say we have looked at, then somebody said, oh yeh wale spoke prasanta TV pe kamaat hai, Twitter pe jada haute, naam nahi boon maa. Swamajh aaj hai gajabilas nahi. But then I called on anything that anybody said. And one or two spoke prasanta said some things to me without knowing the ranking and I played it back to Sunil. Then he gave me and he convinced me. And you know, he is not friendly with anyone. He is not doing any. So I know he is like insulated doing and I have worked with him 11 years. He is my friend. He is older than me. I, you know, if he says something in the company, I respect him because he is totally knowledge oriented. And if I give him a concept, usko tarash dethe, he is able to build on it and make it. So I just want to say we have looked at all those things, English versus Hindi, English and Hindi, online and TV, credibility, content, number of things. And we are not, I am not a political person. I am, I am not, you know, I am not batting for anyone. Okay. So I just want to say I am in life also, I am not like that. I have friends and I would like to in a personal way bat for them. I may also have biases. I have biases. I am a human being. I will have some biases. I am very nervous. I am very nervous when this. I am very nervous. And, you know, I have all kinds of pressure. And I have come so far by saying we are distant and not doing anything wrong. And not, so, you know, I am just saying this, I am, that agar aaj koi apki upan niche ho, so please be nice to me. This is the first year, galti bhi ho sakti hai. Ho sakti hai. Next year we will do it with a jury just to add one. I am again and again saying it because honestly I have called everybody who matters in journalism in the last three days, 10-12 people that I respect, right from the number one Hindi and English channels, the editor of the Hindi channel and the English channel, so what should I tell you? I have called my friend Amish Devgan and then I have called Nishant. I have called everybody, so everybody has given me the input, whether it is Supriya Prasad Ji or Nishant Chaturvedi or Amish Devgan. And some people who are not as active as Vashendra Mishra Ji are. I did stress testing on the list by calling all kinds of spectrums. So 90% was commonality. If someone says it should be up, it should be down, it should be from this car. We are building a dashboard in terms of number of appearances, social media, but ultimately whenever we are saying it's one, again it's a qualitative. So ultimately it's an editorial list. We don't even need a jury. You can say your editorial choices are wrong, all that. So I am actually a national spokesperson. So some of the, you know, like Shweta Shalini Ji, Bombay based names, it doesn't matter, still be in Delhi. But you know, she has, she may have a lesser number of appearances than another person and she has lesser. So you know, some have been a spokesperson for a very long point of time. Some have been there for a relatively part. In some cases the party doesn't field everyone. And in some cases the party fields, if they're a lawyer, lawyer's billable odds are there. I'm not taking their names, but now you understand. But they feel for big things, because they have a lot of credibility. They have a lot of credibility in their income that they come with data. They don't take names. They are a lawyer, MPB. There's one more person who had just called. You know, again, everyone has a view on everyone without it. Nobody has been, nobody has said it to me in a bad way, or demeaning way to another colleague of their in the party. But everyone has a viewpoint on others and themselves. I called someone who's in the top 10. He's in the top 10. He's not number one. He said to me yesterday, I asked him what was his number. I said I should be one. I said okay, it could be. In my view his ranking was very good. I was surprised his ranking was possibly one to two north-east above what I think it should be. And again, I can be wrong. I have watched news television for two, three hours every night. Anyone who knows me knows that I sit at 11 o'clock after 8 o'clock. You see, I'm very rich. So I'm trying to give this preamble to be able to tell you that it is the first year. Inva is the 14th year. I think we have a sense of that domain. So we've done an honest job. Is it perfect? We'll know in two, three years. It is not to, I don't have a brief from any one of you or the party. I'm not even in the party in any party. I don't, I know very few politicians. I know them because they were the INB minister. I run exchange for media. Or they went to school with me. Or they were my junior in an engineering school. Ajay Veer, in your party. Mr. Hooda is my engineering school junior. Four batch. Okay. One more central minister. Four batch is the junior of my school. A very big central minister. But I have that connection with them. But I'm not in politics. I don't like being harsh on anyone. And as I'm growing older, I'm becoming even more spiritual and honest. And I was thinking, you know, it is very tough. You know, I've had stress because it is a very competitive world and everyone wants to be number one. There's nothing wrong. But number one to be used. So I, Sunil Ji will present at 330. It is an honest ranking. Is it perfect? I hope so. And I hope you believe so. My believing so as well. But by the third year, it will be perfect. There I know. If there are some mistakes, we will correct them. But we don't make money from any party. We don't have any commercial activities than any spoke person. Mostly I know for very few years, one year, three years. Even if I know. I know editors and anchors for 20-20 years. I just want to tell you today, Samachar for media's ranking has been launched. And Shashi Shekhar Ji's jury chair was there. Shashi Shekhar is the editor-in-chief of Hindustan. And I was a Hindi writer. I have a big name. They are my very good friends. They are like big brothers. Because they used to work with Atul Maheshwari and Atul Ji and my good friends. Plus, they were my business partners in my media school. Atul Ji's attention was taken 9 years ago.  And my wife told me to shut down for various reasons. So I shut down between these two things. But I still haven't given up on my dream of building India's number one media school and university. Which I hopefully will get to doing in the next few years. So they chaired the jury. I didn't even go to the jury in England. Because I was with my daughter in Bombay in the Q&A event. So she said, you don't have a phone. You don't have to work. You don't have to work. You don't have to work. So I had to listen to Paranthna. But I went to India for 2 hours. So it's been 14 years now for media to get to know each other. In that, Abhishek Marotra was earning 5 years. Neeraj Ji was earning 5 years. You are seeing from the last 2-3 years, Pankaj Ji. So it's been 4-4-11. One year back, when Khurana Ji started, it was 12. In 2014, it's been 12 years. So Neeraj was my friend in my media school. Now he is in a very senior position in Zee News. And I am very close to him. I worked with him for 5 years. He is from my media school. So he also presented. At that time, I was there. And Sumit Awasthi Ji asked me a question which he didn't give a good answer to. According to Sumit. So he is not in the list. And he texts me every day. And I don't know what to answer. And I am very close to Shashi Ji. I have eaten with Shashi Ji 25 times at her house. But I am not telling Shashi Ji. Because I follow my process. So I just want to tell you that if I told Shashi Ji, he will not say no to me. But I am not doing that. And Neeraj is very dear to me. And you don't consider me as Viroda Abbas. But I have a personal relationship with him. He is from Charupragya Ji. He is from Nishant Ji. By the way, the day I was on the flight when I was coming to Bombay, I met your friend who had gone out to study. Now he is in your BJP. He is from Excel. He came to meet you for the first time. I was met by Nishant Ji. The day he was going to the press conference in Bombay, I met him on the flight. So, you know, I am just trying to tell you this. I do also believe in personal relationship matter. The things that are useful to me, the same matter. And that is why I am here. It is the blessing of my parents. It is God's blessing. And my friends have helped me a lot. And I am not saying this for any effect. So, when someone says to me, I feel like doing something, but I am not able to do it anywhere. So, I will leave the stage. We are already running late. Pankaj Ji. Pankaj? No, I am calling Charu Ji. His name is Pankaj. Pankaj Chaudhary. That is the name. He met me on the flight the other day. And I met Pankaj Ji by Nishant Ji. So, this is the kind of relationship I have with one more friend. And I consider him to be my friend. And Amit Badwani. He is my friend. I may have done business with him, but I am not commercial with him. And I am not transaction oriented. That I want something from Charu Ji from tomorrow morning. Or I want something from Shweta Ji. I don't do this. I am Shweta Ji among the few people. I personally called her, texted her, chased her saying, I want to come to you. And, you know, she has been a spokesperson, but she is on the national scene only in the last 2-3 years, right? So, your ranking, I know what is your ranking. I don't know if you will like it or not. But that is what it is. But I personally called her and said, and Jaivi called me and wrote on her phone, Milka Singh. Do you know? First, I will check her number Okay. But you have so many bikes. How do you run? He has a very good collection of cars and bikes. And his father, who is a little bit more of a Ram Ram. So, it hasn't happened for a long time. And Jaivi, I must tell you, me and my wife came to see the next house to you. There is a new house that has been built. So, and that day I fell. I actually fell and hurt myself. There was construction area. Nothing to do with you or my wife. My wife was saying, you tell people that I have pushed them. But it's not like that. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. That time you didn't know you were doing ranking. So, can't blame it on me. But I am, you know, I am a little nervous today. One of my big sisters, one of the big subscribers of a channel, she is upset. I am not saying that I am upset. But I understand that she is upset. So, that's playing on my mind. And the spokesperson ranking is playing on my mind. So, these are two things that are playing on my mind. And I hope we come up to your expectations. I hope our rankings and the framework and what we come up with is accepted by you, is credible. And we are able to incorporate your suggestions going forward. Nazia, our partner can exchange from media.com and she has been working with me for the past five years. She has been working with me for the past five years. She has been working with me for the past five years. She has been working with me for the past five years. Except these initiatives in Bakht and she works more with Naul. But I have specially requested her that you come for her. Anyway, she is from Delhi. And now her children have grown up. So, she can lose a little when she is young. And I all call my others. She is the senior most, but there are other colleagues like Simran. She has worked with us for 11 years. Very outstanding colleague of mine. But she was not there and there was a problem in her back. She didn't come. And I called Neeta too. I said, Neeta, this is Neeta. She is from Amazon. She is busy with events. So, I have requested all my wealth that she should come. Nazia, our flagship exchange from media.com She is from India. She worked for 16-17 years in New York. And since the last five years our site's traffic has improved qualitatively. And we have always recruited journalists and editors for mainstream B2C media. Because it is very difficult. And we take what we do very, very seriously. We watch our videos of Pankaj and Anand because it is a very important part of the exchange from media team together. Ankit is a relatively new colleague but did a great event called Pride of India last week in Bombay. And finished the awards. I went especially to Bombay to give the awards. And you finished it before I did. Do you think I came for living in the hotel? But that's okay. I was happy actually. I was very tired that day. But because it was their first event everyone told me to come. So, I left half of the business world social impact awards and went to Bombay. We were notorious for running late on awards but for a change we were ahead. So, a lot of my other colleagues are there. Yesterday I was giving grief to all my colleagues. I am a perfectionist. So, I was explaining to them that it was a small mistake yesterday whereas yesterday's event was outstanding. But still, I only see mistakes. So, I was nervous before everything. And I start every day like it's my best day and I'm beginning. And that's not a cliche or I'm saying it. Anyone who works with me knows that I have a childlike enthusiasm. So, he took this list to the very important list and as a follow-up we are doing two things. In June we are doing a third debate, the media debate. We are bringing four of the finest speakers on one end and four another to debate will media's credibility be back? Can media get its credibility back? Because it has lost some credibility. Let's be honest. It works in a certain environment, all that.  Then in July we are doing a debate with four politicians and four editors. Again, on media. We don't have a local standard to do. We don't have anything else. So, we would involve some of you in that in more ways than some can be. Debating some can be engaged in questions. And again, it will be scripted as much as it can be scripted debates. There will be televised debates. There will be on television. Plus, there will be on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter. We will tie up with them to make sure that it reaches out to as much of because they are about media but they are larger than the B2B domain that we work in. They are important for the democracy and the B2C audiences. So, we will do that in June and July. So, we are doing the media debate also this week that we said it will get buried in Imba. You know, everybody is interested in the awards. They won't possibly be interested in the debate that much. So, I just want to leave the stage. I've taken more time than I normally do. Because I did want to build this context that this is the first year. It is an honest ranking. It may be close to perfect, but in the third year, it will be perfect. I've seen it in many of the awards we do. Many of the rankings we do. And I want to leave the stage by saying the last thing. I went to a business school called MDI. And my parents are academician, middle-class family. My parents used to go to the first day when I went to the interview with my father because their college would end at 1.30 p.m. My mother was in SCRT. So, she used to come at 5.30 p.m. Until then, I had grown up in engineering for the first time. And I got admission and then my parents went to leave me and I'm lucky enough to be on the board of MDI. I'm the first alumnus. I'm a government nominee, AICTE nominee on the board of MDI for the last two years and four and a half months. You know, I'm also the chairman of the alumni and I'm an MDI student. So, alumni is alumni. No matter how many directors come, no matter how many boards, their level of affinity for MDI at least I think can't be like mine. At least I think maybe there is. And I've been in business for the last 20 years. I've been in business for the last 20 years. I've been in business for the last 8 years. I've been in business for the last 20 years. And I've been in business for the last 17 years and as alumni chairman, I used to write that this is the problem in your ranking. I have mails and letters. Finally, when I got there and I had an editor, he no longer works with me. You know, Sunil has come and he has ranked. Come, Sunil, let's talk about you.  Yeah, yeah. That's Mr. Sunil Kumar. Sunil is my friend. He's older than me. We worked for the last 11 years and I have counsel and, you know, as I said, I have a lot of respect for him. That's not because I want to put the list on him. You know, that's he knows it. I don't have to. So I just want to say that when we, I bought business for and it is in the top six schools. That's not debatable, you know, whether I put it in my ranking or not put it in my ranking. But my alumni team of which I have an important part said, So what is it? I said, See, I have to put it in my credibility. I'm definitely from MDI. You know me. I wrote a letter to the business world over the last 17 years. I have been writing business while. But MDI is sixth on my rankings over the last six years and seven years and since I have come out since I acquired business. I was making my editors five. I did six. I was going to have my best with them. And they even gave up on it. And they even told someone, someone wrote about me in an article. On the contrary, they wrote that I was doing five. So I was not doing it. If I had to do it, I would have to ask someone. And I can justify if I need to. That's the domain I'm an expert in. I went to a business school, I ran a business product. I understand that domain really well. But MDI is number six, and business world ranking is not number five. So I just want to tell you that whatever rules I'm applying to you, I apply to myself. I ask myself, what is the right thing to do? I try and do it. I'm not perfect, but I try and do it. So I would like to give you some rest. And Aditya Malik, today you will get less money, because I have done a lot of ranking. Please come. And you can play the thali for me. And Anurag ji said that you can play the thali for me, only for women. The other lady is mine, I know that. I said it in a good way. Not in a, thank you. Thank you, thank you so much, Dr. Bhatra, for the welcome address or my payment, but thank you. Okay, and now continuing on the journey of the inaugural edition of these awards, it's time to proceed with the first panel discussion of today. It's on defending the indefensible, taking a stand where there is none. Please join me in welcoming a panelist for the same. Jyotsana Arunagri ji, TDP, Shama Mohamal ji, Congress, Anurag Badorya ji, SP, Charu Pragya ji, BJP. Shweta Shalini ji, BJP, and the session will be moderated by Nazia Alvir Ahmad ji, editor, exchange for media group. Ladies and gentlemen, please give them a big round of applause. Welcome to everyone. So there are couple of things that I want to mention before we start. One, I'll try to keep it bilingual. Secondly, just before we were to start, one of the spokespersons asked me, I'll not name, ke aapko debate kiski taraf rakhna hai. So I'll try to tell you that as Anurag sir said, humko debate ki tara rakhna hai. No, we don't have any biases, we don't have any bends. We'll be happy to have a very healthy debate. And all of us, all of you should feel a little lighter today because this is not about your ideologies and parties, it is all about you. It is about you being spokespersons. And so despite all the differences that you have in ideology, there's something common about all of you. You defend people you believe in, ideologies you believe in. But we're all humans, there are days when we don't believe in certain things that are said or done by our leaders. It happens with me very often. I don't believe with Anurag on a lot of things. But still you have to take a stand, right? So what we are, so what I would want us to start with is a healthy, lighthearted debate where you tell us about your experiences of defending your party stand or whatever, but not going too much into the details on days when you perhaps did not want to defend. So who do I start with? I have BGP on both the extremes. So I can start with you, Charu. Good afternoon and namaste to everyone. And thank you so much for having me, Anuragji. Thank you very much. I love the topic of the panel. So when I got the email and I read the topic, I think a lot of the times when people from the general public need spokespersons, they always ask this.  Like we can barely watch it. How do you manage to come on these programs? And I find that very judgmental honestly because this is what we do, right? Day in and day out, we're defending our party and our party stand on television. And we will meet people who otherwise respect in society who look at us in a very, very judgmental manner. But I believe that you can do justice to your position as a spokesperson only when you believe what you are talking about. So it really goes a long way when you really appreciate the ideology and the efforts put in by your leaders, by your party. That cannot change. When that starts shaking, you cannot perform. Also, I have seen that it helps that if you don't agree with something, you either call it out or you apologize. So it happens very candidly, I'm saying this that if there is a situation when someone says, yes, but your party did this, then you didn't say anything. I prefer to take a step back and say, I agree, that was wrong. And I apologize for it. If I can apologize for it, I apologize. And you move on from there. And I find it very silly sometimes and maybe you have a question saying, no, I don't think so. Because if you are in a fair party setup, you should be allowed to speak your mind. That's exactly why you are where you are. So I will say this in a tongue-in-cheek. Many times we watch TV debates and we see spokesperson and they are very passionately defending something which is sounding silly. I mean, something very strange has happened and they keep shouting and without listening, they keep defending that thing.  Why not take a step back instead of saying, but your crime was big. But you know, especially when it comes to, say, crime against women, when it comes to issues of safety, usually the discussion becomes about these big rapes and these small rapes. They start analyzing them state-wise. I think these kind of discussions become difficult to handle. And I find it easy to take a step back. Apologize to the FTV. And then take it from there. Anurag ji, you tell us. You were very vocal since the last two years. I will hit you later, but I will tell you, he is one of those people who will not take a step back on any debate. The biggest thing is when we are in a debate, Mr. Charu says anything, but when you stand for your party, or if there is something that we think is right, it is possible that you think it is right. Because according to my ideology and my view, that is not right. And that is what you think is right. As I say, today's debate is going on, Mr. Hanuman Chalisa. So I think Hanuman Chalisa is our religion, our tradition. We should divide it in our own homes. Our temples, many temples, thousands of temples should be divided.  When someone is in someone's house, when someone is in someone's house, and after that, when we debate on it, Mr. Charu defends it. He is saying a good thing. When we say that we should debate in the temple, then why can't Charu say anything? I have the right to do it. He will report it. He will report it. I am talking about doing good things, because the camera is not on TV right now. Mr. Charu is still saying, why can't we do Hanuman Chalisa anywhere? Is there a need for a life-saving system for Hanuman Chalisa? It can be anywhere. So the question is not this. The question is that from our point of view, the wrong thing can be that other parties or other people have started to prove it right from their point of view. So when there is a debate like this, the debate often becomes very hot, because we have to say that I am saying that this is not right, it should be discussed on an expensive basis. They are saying that it shouldn't be discussed on an expensive basis. It should be discussed on Jangirpuri and Alwar. So the question is, if we have to take the whole country to Jangirpuri and Alwar, then when will the issues of the country be discussed on those issues? The country is very big. Mr. Charu, you have also talked about the news channel, right? That is why I had asked you before the debate. I don't want to take your name. I had asked you which side will you debate? Do you want to debate on BJP or India? So you said, no, I want to make it neutral. So I said, I don't want to make it neutral these days. There is no debate on India. The debate is about an ideology that we have to save the BJP. Now when we start talking, then that anchor will start talking. There is a problem. There is no problem until BJP keeps talking. As soon as we started talking, what happened in 1991? What happened in 1988? After 2014, will there be a debate or not? I have covered BJP very closely and I have a friend in BJP who was telling me a few days ago whenever I am invited. So I told the anchor, or you will tell us. No, no, like Mr. Anurag Bhattra told us his history. He told us that when I went to school, he was my school friend. Now, if he talks to his school friend for 24 hours, then when will the media exchange work? He will do it here. But when he is in his office, he will focus on how to take me to the media exchange. I have respect for my BJP panellists and they like all of us in their job. We have to keep it neutral. We will not make it into a BJP bashing. There is something that I am sure even whether they like it, they don't like it, they have to do it. Shama, you tell me that how easy or difficult it is to defend in situations where you may not be in complete approval with what has happened on that day with your party or somebody in your leadership has said past remark that you don't agree with but still you have to defend it on the camera. First of all, this topic is defending the indefensible when there is none. For me, defending the indefensible does not exist because my perspective is not Charu Pragya's perspective that evening. My perspective is defending the party and I believe that I am defending the party. So there is nothing called indefensible. Number two, it says taking a stand when there is none, never. There is always a stand unless and until you have a stand you're not a leader. If you say that I don't have a stand today and in Malayalam we say means there is no leader. A leader has to be decisive. A leader has to have a stand and there is to be clarity of thought. So I don't agree first with the topic of defending the indefensible. So there are times in the evenings when it comes in and says this is what you have. For example, the other day I was debating on sedition because of the seditious charges recently we are hearing and I told very clearly my thought process is that this law has to be scrapped. It has to go. Irrespective of Bhaitiyajanta Party the Congress Party, Samajwadi the TDP, all of us sitting here this law has to go. It is something which happened in the colonial times and we need to get rid of it because you can't question one government. They are having a seditious charge based on some frivolous charges then the other government says you know what he is doing it. Why can't I? There is a tit for tat happening right now in this country. Nobody wants to leave the other because a certain one is in control and I don't like, like you mentioned don't want to make it a BJP versus but I am just talking about my country what we need to do is we don't need this tit for tat let us go for the Constitution let us go for justice. When there was a call for a genocide of a particular community which I belong to and then I thought about it we are signatories of the Geneva Convention in 1949 we were the first ones from South Asia and the fifth country to sign for the Geneva Convention we implemented it and who spoke about it? What did I hear that day? No Supreme Court's home auto cognizance the civil society was very lax everybody in that particular context and I was shocked, is this my India? This is not something small and we all should remember one thing is the genocide in Ravanda started on the Ravandan TV of the Hutus saying the Tutsi cockroaches go after them we are educated people here we are not going to react with these genocidal calls but there are those illiterates in our country there are many others who are uneducated who you know say they are saying is the truth and that's what is the problem at this point of time we need to decide as a nation as people that we have to follow the constitution of this country we have to follow the path of the truth and we need to stand for humanity for equality for fraternity what our forefathers have inscribed in our constitution and that's about it sorry I've made it a bit of a serious thing but this is my thought process today of not putting it BJP versus Congress but what we all as Indians are to stand so something for me is I'm always defending the defensible that's what I have to say India will stand and a leader has to have a stand there is nothing like no stand that's what I would like to say I mean you guys are too consumed with your daily news and all these political comments we are not we are on the other side of it and I'm telling you India is too strong for these calls and India will fight back and India will stand all this will eventually not happen Jyotsana I'll bring you into this and I want to understand from you is regional our regional channels and you know debates there as noisy and as meaningless if I can say as our national debates have become good afternoon at the outset to each and everyone here meaningless not exactly because what happens is as Charuji was just mentioning I stick to my point and we as human beings have a very very bad quality I should say that we try and convincing is only one aspect that we do beyond that we try to compel the other person to actually accept our point we compel the other person to actually say what I'm saying is correct that's where the argument starts and yes as Charuji was saying a little bit about being vocal being noisy sticking to the point but at the same time we believe in our in our ideology of the party like if I belong to the television party and we have a stand we have an ideology and I stick to it because I'm a part of the party and I and I'm a follower of my leader so I stick to my point and I try and convince the people and I think as party spokesperson we should all be convincing we shouldn't be compelling I think there's a very very thin line there we talk about convincing and compelling and most of us when you said meaningless debates yes that's where they cross the line they say no no we don't have to convince we have to compel it what I'm saying is correct what the other person is saying is wrong see again I'm not into because we don't we don't want to make it political so this is where the entire problem lies even in our regional debates that we talked about every party has got an ideology and I stick to my ideology I stick to my party's stand and as very rightly said we have a stand and that's the reason we are talking if we do not have a stand we do not talk as simple as that and once we stick to our stand and we have that ability in us and we have that I should say conviction in us to stick to our point we make sure we are actually convincing the other person problem problem where I say that my point is correct the other's point is wrong and I actually make sure that I prove him wrong and debates and almost you might have seen couple of my debates I say that your point is wrong it's your ideology I want to prove my point what I'm saying is correct and these are the documents or substantial proofs to say that I'm correct and I stick to my point automatically you will prove wrong I don't want to say that you are wrong Shweta ji you feel that you have to say that because you know this has become the new normal when people are not ready to accept other people's point of view 10 years ago when we used to watch television debates of 15 years ago so people would it would be for the motion against the motion and then it will conclude but now everything has to be in one direction do you feel it when you are participating in the debates or you think there are still some debates which are debates where you Nazir ji is like that what Anthin says it's benefit and loss the loss is that people have said every point the benefit is that you can answer the answer to your question and you said keep it light you know a lot of people meet me when they meet me they say Shweta ji you are very good basically they mean that you look like on TV not like that so coming to picking up from what so so when so picking up the point that Jyotsana ji said see until you are trying to convince or compare it is still fine there are some people who come and only confuse and that's where the problem starts most importantly they keep being a spokesperson is a skill set it's neither science it's not an art right it's a skill set you actually gain that skill set I am a spokesperson you are a human being but you are a spokesperson I am an engineer so let me tell you when you use a sound system the amplifier the loudspeaker the loudspeaker is a spokesperson so whatever is I don't decide I only speak like Bhopu so my job is what you have said my job is that I can take my party's thoughts to the public yes my own personal stand and as boring from what Shama ji said very clearly yes every person not only a leader every person should have a stand the difference is you need to either stand up or you need to stand out the problem is when you start wanting to stand out you know and that's where you end up so for example in our party for example when I am asked I say there are some subjects on which I want to go I have been doing electioneering for a very long time there are some issues in which I am called and I want to go because there I have an expertise but if there is no issue of my expertise and I am sat there then it is not that I don't have a stand and that's when it is important that you behave exactly like what Charu ji said or exactly what Anurag ji just said you know I need to be honest because finally people are seeing who I am people want to understand the leader in me and that leader in me needs to believe that I am saying what I think and I am speaking with my heart so it is not about picking up the current issue like what Anurag ji said basically the thing is the thing is whether I have freedom of speech whether you are seeing me and someone else in one circle whether the issue is whether there was a crime and you are hearing the punishment for the crime that I am a king because our country is a nation and nothing is more important than the country itself personally I believe in two things I always respect the people who are in front of me because whoever whatever they are they represent their own parties and on this Anurag ji thank you so much eventually you saw that I didn't even ask you what is our ranking that first thing I have to tell you thank you for thinking about spokespersons because individually each of us each of us are spokespersons of our own party we do a very tough job we go every evening extremely in the evening when you can give your family family asks you if you are sitting in the middle of family children are learning from you so you need to understand that we give it a lot for our own parties if there is an effort forget about right being perfect not being perfect being close to perfect even if there is a there is an initiative to stand up and recognize our effort we are extremely thankful so thank you so much always tell your family now we have taken out our energy in personal relations no it is like this if a guest comes to my house my father tells me to close the door so you have to find some other place to sit and work because it gets difficult I think Anurag sir wants to say that the problem is that when you go to panel discussion one person is sitting when all the guests are talking on their stand and I believe any party member doesn't take stand on wrong things but there is a person sitting there who will do the work of setting fire and he will say this and then he will say that politics is a new thing he will do work for party especially for VGP and he will stand with him and shout now tell me how fast the anchor voice of an element will our ideology go where our voice will not go Anurag sir, we have learnt this trick from you we have learnt it from Satta let's not start that play again I will come back to it I want to understand from you what has happened in last 10-15 years we now have almost 400 news channels earlier there were 2-3 channels there were 2-3 spokespersons who used to be very senior people you know their research their experience do you know what is the result of that my father is sitting at home IPS retire, do you know what he is saying he is shouting on top he is not saying any debate he is shouting on top that is my question within these number of channels with all due respect to all of you the quality of spokespersons that used to be 15-20 years ago when there was a big fight with the people we used to see there was Arun JTG Manu Singh they were like they must be in their 40s or 50s they had spent some 15-20 years working as a political worker they had knowledge now we see a lot of young people very minimum experience little understanding many of them who have passed school, went abroad, studied abroad suddenly landed in Delhi and became the spokesperson of a particular party they are talking about India I don't know how much maybe they know it but do you agree that now political parties need to invest in some kind of training for their own spokes they need to do some kind of introspection or maybe they are happy respectfully what happens is in this world today it's difficult to distinguish noise from news there is so much of noise there are so many news channels many times you hear of channels that you don't even know about when you are in the business of being on a news channel every single day so it's difficult to make that distinction also because they need to fill up their airtime this is true for the anchors also even the anchors are as inexperienced as the spokespersons long ago they used to pay for drinks going on ground becomes very expensive for any news channel and one of the channels that brings the most number of spokespersons, I don't have to tell you the channel it is a channel with a lot of energy the anchor has the most there are only 2-3 spokespersons in it the rest are given to sit their profit is up to 0.6 crores if I get this now they didn't confirm me but I know so Nazia was our story technique that's why I told you I am not saying that it is a commercial there is a business model otherwise if you do reporting you do research you do on-ground it costs you a lot more money but the problem is that while they are doing their business you people are the ones absolutely and you know what happens is I say this very often and that becomes true but because of that reason now parties have also become specific about who they send on TV so I know for a fact that my party is very specific there will be a clear party line of course and then it is up to you how well you can do your research and build on it that being said there are going to be news channels where there is no bandwidth of our party how many of our spokespersons are there more channels than that after that you work so hard there is no bandwidth more than that so what some channels start doing is that they pick up people who are affiliated to the party maybe members of the party and they call them a spokesperson and they put them on their show so what is being said by them is not necessarily what is being said by the people of the party that parties should be made in a proper way yes I will correct this the party has given training time will be made that I have to be debated on the earth this will also be prepared by Charu Ji you will also be prepared but when you reach on the debate then what is happening on the debate you tell me where the logic is in the debate then it will start with Hanuman Chalisa now listen to Hanuman Chalisa if you will listen to her I will give you the entire sentence Hanuman Ji will tell me everything let's talk further before that before that before that before that before that before that before that before that before that before that when they are talking there is no chance of speaking they have had the same idea when they had the same idea you are not more than a political leader but the question is where is a chance of speaking where is the chance of proving to yourself you can always you can always you can always you can always blame the anker I don't want to blame the anker I want to say what Anurag Ji just said it is a business at the end of the day When it is a business, it is run on how many people are watching maybe as a society we need to reflect on why maximum number of people are watching these things because why will any news channel show something which is not being watched. I believe in this, I have to run this channel, your expenses seem to be sold. Why is it that this is being sold? That's a question of worry. But we are passing on the burden. Why are you part of that? Is what I want to understand I mean all of you are doing it. So can I come in? There are those channels and that's how they work. But you as a human also have always have a choice where to draw the line. So I'll tell you that before I continue, I want to I've heard it is not only about business, it is not only about it is you what you are talking is affecting millions of people. It is polarizing the society, it can have it's all kinds of effects. So you also have as a human being also need to draw a line that I will not go beyond this. So can I speak now? Anurag ji had said one thing when he was in podium that I am a perfectionist and I am also a perfectionist and I am looking ahead. My name has become Shammah and my spelling is also wrong. So you have to change this a little bit. The other thing what I want to tell is that you see after 2014, again nothing to another party, when we go on TV, we are an anchor, but I can say that it is an anchor of a party.  So we are an anchor of a single party. So I faced that when I came in 2016. So it was a tough one because it is not that's why somebody asked me, Shammah, why do you shout? I said what can I do because I have to find a way they don't let me speak. They just move out from you to go to the next. So I have to be what I understood as being assertive. And what you said that the difference between America and here when it comes to Trump, there the fourth state was not sold out. And the example was when a CNN reporter was kicked out by Trump at a press conference. He said you get lost, you cannot attend any more of my press conference. He went to the Supreme Court and after that when it was in the Supreme Court, all the right-wing news channels, Fox News were with him. He was with the CNN guys saying that the fourth state remained over there independent. They didn't get along and they didn't take us one-sided way, did not go. So I believe. So you asked us. Do you also feel that even as a spokesperson, you all need to unite better and draw your lines and say before it starts, all of you together even you as you know maybe maybe I'm just saying you come from the ruling party, you can say that you know let's have a debate. No, he has answered that. Let's have a debate and not. No, we all belong to. There is an ideology. There is a party line, what she has told. Okay, there is a party line. So everybody follows their party line. And in fact, when we come out of it, I've met many of them, very, very civil. So then they will be everybody from the Bhatia Janta Party and the Congress and everybody say, you know what we all are resigning. It's not that way the way you think. Of course, we understand. So anyway, in my party, I can talk about my, we are fighting for the present for everything what India stands for. We want the India back. Every time any of us, any of us spokesperson, our leaders are fighting for the India, which was there, the inclusive India. And you must have seen the letter Mrs. Sonia Gandhi has written to the president with all of us. So what I'm saying is saying, but we do not, we also, we need to maintain on a channel, a decorum. What I feel which I don't go beyond that personally, I would, I think there shouldn't be going to be a personal private life. We should not bring it onto a channel. We should discuss the policies of the government. Whatever the policies, the government is going wrong. We go into the policies, but personal abuse, and that is what it is. And that is what I don't see these days. What is happening is you are called names, you are called jihadi, you are called many other things, not just on air, but also offline, even if you're not one. So of course, and then you have rape threats, all those things also come along with it. So yes, it's a difficult one. But what we need to do is put our line through and maybe a discussion with the party of maintaining decorum, which again, I'm going to say was there more before 2014. Jyotsana Ji, if you, you also believe that, you know, Spokesperson, either Spokesperson, as Spokesperson, you should give a stand that beyond this, if you all say the news anchor, you will try to have a healthy debate, really have too much of a choice.  And that is the reason, you know, why all of this. Let me put it very honestly, Nazia Ji. What happens is we all are from a very, very, you know, decent families. We don't want to be called names, as Shama Ji said. We don't like it all that.  First of all, where is the second thing? We personally, like from TDP, what we have done is we actually boycott such kind of people. We don't go to such kind of debates where such kind of people come. We do it. And I personally do it. I said, if I don't go, if I don't get that TV, then it will work. But I respect my party and my respect. Because if I talk something wrong, there I'm not only just demeaning myself or degrading myself, I'm also degrading my party. I'm also degrading my leader. And I'm also not respecting my ideology. So more or less, it happens. Most of us, we don't go to a particular channel because there is a lot of abuse, a lot of screaming. And then you are actually left alone because you don't shout, you don't call names, you don't use any abusive language. So you are left out. We don't go to those channels. At least we have made it very clear from our party. And second thing is, as you were saying, we especially with our party, we already have a system wherein a particular training is given to the spokesperson. And I believe most of the parties also do it. But what I feel personally is, it has to happen even with the news channels, with the anchors. You know, they can talk anything that they want, anything on earth that they want. And there is no stopping. Just because you are not seeing the increase in the number of viewership, this is what is happening. And here I'm not blaming the anchors and not blaming the news channels because it's cutthroat competition out there. So we need to change the entire system. I've been sent a note that we have to wrap it up in five minutes. Shweta, briefly, your views on this and then I'll put the final question and we can close it. Look here, like every debate, we have come to a point where you asked a little bit of a question. What did you ask? You asked a question that at the time of Atalji, you know, at those times, they were, they were spokesperson and you had debates and has the quality gone down. So there are two things that I want to say. First is, please understand that content is king. The content quality has gone down in totality. Now you tell me, you ask me this question, you are from the media world, you ask me this question that you are still on Hanuman Chalisa, Hanuman Chalisa, Hanuragji has done it 10 times. Why do you talk about Hanuman Chalisa?  Brother, you have called for a debate on Hanuman Chalisa, so who should I talk to? If you would have called me on earth, I would have talked on earth. Second, Shama Ji was just saying, I would like to say that the way the media works, Satta also works in a way. When Satta comes to you, then automatically all the special forces become yours, the entire media channel becomes yours and this is the form of Satta. You know, now before 2014, we used to go to debates and we used to feel the same that I don't need to take the name of the channels, there are still some channels where when we are sent, we remain one versus all. And BJP even in the actual Yatharth, feels that the party-wise is also BJP versus all, the ideology-wise is also BJP versus all. So, now when you keep this Yatharth in front of you, if you ask this question again, then I will only tell you what Shama Ji said. Look, the need is that we respect each other, you are still doing your work and I am also doing my work. I am just amplifying the thought process of my organization.  This last question now, Shama has to leave and Shama was like, she came much before time and we have to respect the fact. Last question is Charu, as a spokesperson, what are some of the few qualities you think a spokesperson must have? And if you can name a spokesperson, not from your party that you really like. Same party. So, I said not from your party. I admire spokesperson who are not talking in circles, who are very clear about their thoughts. I did four, one, two, three, four, three, four points. The spokesperson that I like very much who's not from my party, she was never from my party actually Priyanka Chaturvedi. I think she speaks well. She's well when she was in the Congress, even now she's lesser on television from Shiksena. But I think she's got clarity of thought. She does not talk in respectful of the opposition spokesperson. Like we've had, I don't know God knows how many Facebooks, but there's never been a point that I felt disrespected. And I always appreciate a spokesperson who gives the respect they expect to get. Jaiway is running late, so we'll not take questions, but complete this. No, actually, it's very simple because BJP's ideology is where the benefit is to talk there. So, there's no time better than four points to get the benefits. Seriously, as far as the question of the speakers is concerned, from a few days ago, I was a spokesperson who used to understand very well, and he respects his knowledge very much. He doesn't even speak in English. No, no, I respected him very much. And from a few days, when I saw his form changed, I was surprised to see that he was so idolized and good at understanding. I used to understand Mr. Trivedi that he's very good at understanding, but he's not at fault either. The place where he went, he's his pride. So, the most important qualities of a spokesperson is that you should have a conviction. You should be assertive, no rhetorics and clarity of thought process and decisive. And very important is presence of mind. Because sometimes we don't know what is the question. We are prepared, but we can do anything and you are defending your party. So, presence of mind is very, very important. And if you ask me who is a spokesperson, who I like from the other party, is Nalini Kohli, because for me, he's from the other side. He has all the... So, Nalini is the only time I'm very well-prepared, because I know he is very well-prepared. His answers are to the point. He has clarity of thought and he is very, very respectful. I've got many favorites in my party. You have one sitting right there. He's also a good friend of my colleague. He has a lot in our party. So, why should I take his name? In my party, he is a very good spokesperson, according to me. No problem. I believe the foremost quality a spokesperson should have is listening. You need to listen to what the other person is talking, so that you can answer him very correctly. First thing, second thing is you need to understand the ideology of your party to the core. Because you are defending that ideology. So, you need to understand the ideology of your party to the core. And you need to believe in yourself, have the confidence that you can actually convince the other person. These are the qualities that I believe a spokesperson should have. And probably, I see all the people up here having that. And I'm really to share the rest with you. And if I have to talk about a spokesperson whom I adore, he's from Congress Party, a regional person there from our state, Mr. Shravan Dasoju. He talks really good. He has the facts and figures with him all the time. He actually convinces the other person saying that, yes, Shravanji, what we have said at the end is correct, but probably he adds a little bit. He makes sure the other person talks that. So, that's how I believe a spokesperson should be. Whatever you have said is correct, but add a little bit later. And one of those beautiful things. Thank you. Shweta, I love Shravanji all the time. And he's from Sudhanshu. And I think I only stick because he's the best that we have. Sudhanshu Trivedi, of the way he speaks, he's articulate, he is bang on. I tell him that you have put Wikipedia in a circle. You know, he just, he is fantastic. So, I think I'll stop at that. I can tell somebody who I thought, and anyway, since a senior leader, there wouldn't be any accusations I haven't chosen. It's Manish Tiwari. But I don't force. Throughout the debate, I did not force any one of you. If I'm another party, I said, Nalini. But from my party, a senior leaders. So, so we can conclude on that note that I didn't force you, any one of you to say anything that you did not want to say. And I hope none of you was offended in any way. We try to keep it as healthy and as, you know, light as possible. Thank you very much for joining us. Thank you. Thank you so much to all our panelists. And of course, some more data request. Seel Kumarji, President Exchange for Media Group, please join us on stage and congratulate all our panelists. Ladies and gentlemen, please a big round of applause for all the panelists, our moderator and Sunil Ji as well, please. Okay, lots of discussions happening there. I won't stop anybody, but thank you so much. Ladies and gentlemen, our panelists and our moderator, Nazir Ji. Thank you. Okay, look at the time. I will very quickly introduce the next session because it's a quickie. It's a fireside chat. On credibility and content are twins. And ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming on stage Javier Shirgil Ji from Congress. And joining him is Nazir Albir Hamal Ji once again, editor, Exchange for Media for this fireside chat. Please, please give them a round of applause, ladies and gentlemen. I think the convenient thing would be to ask you to give your point of views on everything that we were discussing before. And we can start on that note because yeah, yeah, so I do have questions on that, but I'm sure that, you know, as spokesperson, you would have been wanting to give your point of view on a lot of things that we discussed before. So would you want to start with something?  And I realize that they are parachuted. So I am one of those young people. No, no, no, no. You, I am one of those young people. But I'll marry that into something to the other point. So I went to a small school in a small town in Punjab called Jalandhar. I studied in Calcutta, I studied in America, and then I came back and did my practice. Could I have parachuted? No. Could I have spoken, debated, made a point of view without knowing the realities of streets of India? No. Strengths of my opponents? No. I am a product of a training program which the Congress party created in 2013. I was given 10,000 pages to read. 4,000 people were given 10,000 pages to read on content, terrorism, women empowerment policy. From 4,000 people, 50 new media faces were picked up, and I was one of them. 50, 50. So the young lad from America was tested, tried. Not from America. No, no, in the sense, education. You barely spent a couple of years in America, but most part of your growing up and education has been in there. But having said that, the training was like, Anuragji has done a completely unbiased, non-prejudiced election program. Without Sifarish, the Congress party picked up political opnence, and that is why training is important, number one. Number two, I think the spokespersons, I've done in my limited journey, more than around 3,000-4,000 television debates in the past eight years. I was 33 when I joined, no, 31 when the world of TV, and I'm going to be 39. So one thing is, spokespersons, I've kept in mind that we also keep enmity in mind. About someone's anchor, about their own life, family, whatever their will is against you, about someone's time, ultimately, it's your own with what thought you can sleep better at night, look at yourself in the mirror, not turn into another beast on TV and be a human. That is the larger Lakshman Rekha I have obeyed. Number three, you asked about the time before we go into the topic, how do you say, what is the world outside and what is the role?  Anchor, time, media columnist, they are not allowed mistakes. If an MLA loses three times, it will get a ticket for the fourth time. If an MP loses twice, it will get a ticket for the third time.  So the highest standards of accountability in the spokespersons of all-across party, if, especially in our party, we impose that on our electoral colleagues, maybe things will really revive and change. So this is what happens. We will come to the topic, credibility and content that wins. Well, we have always believed that, that's what we grew up believing on. But do you think that now it's become little shaky? Content is the content that we consume on daily basis, on news channels, or through various sources. Do you think when you read it, you feel that this is credible or you always feel the need to go back, cross-check, fact-check. I think the credibility and content are two Siamese twins attached to the hip of truth. They are two twins which are attached to the hip of truth. In Hindi, I say that the dialogue in Hindi is that these twins go around in circles. So these two are such twins, your truth and your truth, which have gone around in the circles of Sansani and Dushprachar today. That is one. Number two, credibility gives validation to content. Content adds weight to credibility. Coming to your, because we are less on time, less session, it's not credibility and content, have gone away. The demand and supply of credibility and content has gone away. In the 32nd, I have seen my debates personally and I'm guilty of that and every spokesperson is guilty of that. From where emphasis on facts, we also have to sprinkle away dialogues, one-liners, headline creators, because we said that people focus on headline, not the content. So that journey I have seen from content, credibility changing to populism, sensationalism to attract as many eyeballs I as a spokesperson can come. Number three, if I am not, that the beast of television debate is in print still, But for that, he can go to other channels. He may not consume news for that. You're right. But now coming to that, 1,44,983 newspapers in India. That's a rough number. 958 satellite TV channels running. 380 out of which are reporting news, 539 are non-news channels. 483 all India radio FM stations, 392 private FM stations. That is the volume of information which is fed into the country. Percentage wise. And some 1,00,000 WhatsApp messages. And Facebook and Twitter wise. Right. Dominance is of sensationalism. That is why print is a drying breed. And I am not that old to my generation. The 240 character appetite, the capsule, the YouTube 30 second clip, that is now dominating, which does not demand credibility in content. At all. But where are we heading? At some point of time, we'll need credible news. We are always, everyone, the entire generation is forever in doubt. I think every nation goes through a phase. Today, the politics is going through a transition. People loved President Trump. Whatever he used to say, he used to close his eyes and accept it. So, here, Mr. Biden and his critics changed that. The emergence of fact-checking news platforms. The emergence of, there are 213% rise in fake news in the last pandemic in India alone. The rumour mongering. The viewer will rise, shake, wake, put the pressure on channels to do that. That alteration has to come from the media. Now, I would like to give you a little example that the demand is, a man would know any party, any party MLA, meets on an average two to 300 people on a daily basis. Two to 300 people on a daily basis. Absolutely. Out of them, not even 1% talk about traffic, road, drugs, infrastructure. Someone needs a transfer, someone needs a change. Even religion. They will come to you for all kind of work. For that. But the election now puts the pressure on the electorate's demand and supply. Unless that demand changes, supply is not going to change. A politician has to win elections. He's not a professor in college. A TV channel has to sell a business. A newspaper has to sell a content. There are newspaper who are striving on content. There are newspaper who are starting on Sars-Bahu stories. There are channels who are not dressing into satellite as pilot themselves and going over Ukraine. The point is, the reform has to emerge within the society. People have to change their priorities. And then we, the gladiators or the soldiers or the actors or the directors, we will play to the gallery accordingly.  You work with Mr. Sangvi, right? You work with him. You know, when you're a lawyer, when you're talking in court, there is a different kind of credibility that has to be there. How does that shift at all when you're talking before the court and when you're talking before common people like us, do you think you can get away with anything? And in court, you have to be credible? See, one thing court teaches us, lawyers who argue, they make us thick-skinned. That lawyer quality helps us in anchor. Anchor is making you ugly. Anchor is shaking you. Anchor is disturbing you. You can, whatever lawyer we are trained, no matter what the other person is saying, I can't deviate from my focus. In those 30 seconds, I have to talk about patrol or diesel, even if he's talking about religion. Number two, yes, the threshold of clarity now is my personal conscious. TV does not require it. In 30 seconds, I can speak anything. People can say India is 800 crore voters. People can say Javer Shergill is involved in the scandal. Nobody's checking. It's collapsed. But court, you cannot afford to take that risk. So I think lawyer makes me thick-skinned. Does not shift from the focus. But being a spokesperson in the longer run, I also know I've reduced TV debates. One of my very dear friend died while on the TV debate Rajiv Diagi. He had a health condition. It's a heart attack. I'm not blaming any media platform. But looking at him, I was live on air that day. I wrote a letter. It went very viral to the IMB minister. Sir, as per the NBSA guidelines, you need to tame TV debates. If they become slanderous, sensational platform where I'm forced to abuse. Otherwise, nobody will listen. Please bring back civility to TV debates. That letter was debated all across India at 9 o'clock, but nothing changed. And I had to take a conscious call. I reduced that day that Rajiv's lifeless body I saw. His young wife and a kid were there. Because I knew how much he shouted and how much toll it takes on the health of every spokesperson. So unless you don't tame this slanderous beast. It is not just physical health. It's also the mental health. It's a mental health. There are, Anuragji is my neighbor. And I was young at 31. When there's certain news channels, I used to do four times in a week. And when I used to get up from a chair, sorry, I'm being dramatic. And I used to get up my chair and my head used to go numb and shake. I never used to recognize my own self. Who am I? Am I that person who's shouting? Am I that person showing somebody down?  And that is why the reason you have to be strong, like a Formula One driver. You have to have a sharp mind. You have to have a thick skinned, not to be impacted by personal remarks. But the larger duty calls you have to keep and keep your health well-being safe. But you said a lot, I take all of that. But at the end of the day, we're all humans, right? We all react to it. So have there been days when you have come back very disheartened or very depressed from a television debate?  Yeah, very. I think a good spokesperson has to keep himself at the platform of self-assessment. There are days where you say, maybe I didn't say the fact, right? There are days when I said the other spokesperson outshouted me. I did not perform. There are days where I didn't want to speak on religion, but I was forced to speak on religion because otherwise, he says it's a waste of time. So there are days when you think, this is what you really signed up for as an individual. Of course, as every human, as an anchor, as a TV channel, as a spokesperson, you think like that. But then again, as I said, you have to, another day, another new day, the system cannot change. That's why you didn't make time to change the system. That's why you have to make time to influence your voice, your voice, your voter. And I have to do my job, but yes, I have to answer my inner soul at the end of the day until I continue to do my job.  Time is money for you. And today, I will take your time. I will say, how do you manage time when you also give time to party? Legal lawyering is my necessity. Lawyering is my daily bread. Rajneeti is my passion. I don't come from a political family at all. Passion, the passion I feel standing on an election rally and talking to the people, the passion I feel addressing the crowd, the passion I feel being on a TV channel, the passion I feel helping others in a very, very small panel and to be selfish or because it's like a the passion, the high you get people taking a photograph with you is the passion that in a very when you're in a court, no, you know, in a very limit and not to be because youngsters are sitting and not to be self-boosting. The passion at a very young age I've I've addressed University at Harvard, Columbia, Stephens, Xavier's. So I'm thinking of a Punjab Jalandhar guy who is in the St. Joseph Boy School who never gets admission in Harvard. Rajneeti politics has given such a platform where I'm going and addressing students of Harvard. I've spoken in Israel, NATO, security. This high, no money can, it's irreplaceable. So when you say time is money, yes, today I'm not, I'm following my passion. I'm following my Sir Ferochi, which is what I've done. The for paying the bills, my legal brief is there. And I'm as my guru, Dr. Singh is there. I'm mastering the art of multitasking. So hopefully one day. So, you know, coming again, coming back to the content thing that we were discussing.  That demand is already started, isn't it? So how and where, because you interact with far, I mean, your interactions with like, must be with thousands of people and on a weekly basis. So where do you see the trend going and how, what is the roadmap? I think there's English saying all that glitters is not gold and people realize that. I don't want it to be a Congress versus BJP platform this, but people realize what President Trump is feeding them is not what they want to consume. Maybe if he's abusing a Mexican immigrant, there was an appetite for that for only for a month or two months. The fact that news channels, I'm sure Anuragji Yaw platform and many other national channels now have in-house fact-checking machinery because they have realized the wind has started tilting. The wind is changing direction. Fact-checked, the PIB has also launched it. So they say that my killer is my Munsif, who will make me justice? That's an old saying. And one more thing is that, if I'm getting it right, this is your body and this is your leader. You should write the truth and this is your news. We complain about it, but how do we do it? This is your government and this is your court. That is why I thought I'll take your views on this PIB fact-check in which they check themselves and tell us which news is right and which news is wrong. When you go to debates and these kinds of questions and these kinds of statements that people from other parties say, yeah, just say politicians bold at the end that this is 80% versus 20% debate. They call politicians by names. Women politicians were called prostitutes or whatever. How do you counter that? And considering that you don't cross the line and all because these are very provocative kind of statements. How do you maintain your sanctity and also your calm because these are very annoying things. I think over the years and again in my limited political journey because we spokesperson see each other so much at 9 o'clock. So I'll take a name and I have no shame in taking a name. It's if it's me and Sudhanshu Trivedi. We are debating no matter how the anchor is both me and him know we will not cross each other's Laxmanric. We will not abuse each other. It's an unsaid rule. Maybe it's the personality of the character we bear. There are uncertain scores. Who do you cross with? I personally maybe once or twice I would have done and I felt very ashamed of myself. What do you feel like with this? Next time I'll go and cross the line. No, my Punjabi is open from the inside. The Punjabi says that if the page is read, don't move back.  But yes, largely I think if you respect other spokesperson and if you don't speak in their language ultimately you end up embarrassing them and forcing them also to think that don't consider my nicety as my weakness. I have seen all of this happening in courts also. I have seen particularly in local courts. I have seen I have covered courts for 10 years. I have seen a lot of senior lawyers just try to intimidate the judges by saying these kind of sentences. I have heard, I have heard just to put pressure. So I think this is the reason why lawyers become good politicians later. They start it very early. There is a different kind of training. And I have also noticed judges, very senior high court judges remember. So they knew that I cover courts for Hindustan times or times of India. So when I would walk in, they start yelling at the petitioner for no reason, giving interesting quotes for my just sentences that will make headlines next day. And they didn't put it in the written order. So I think the courtroom is a good training ground for most of the sports persons. I don't want to be in contempt of court. I think whether the spokesperson or the lawyer or the judge because Shazia ji is sitting here and she is a senior respected spokesperson from another political party. I think in a mischievous way, we have mastered the tactic. If the topic is very difficult or if the judge does not want to address a difficult court, I will try to shake her by making a remark. She will try to shake me by, okay, let me see if Jai Vir gets shaken or let me see if Shazia ji gets shaken and derails from her thought process. Similarly with the judge, when he does not want to give you a hearing, judge kabhi mood hai adjourni karna hai, then he will make a remark. So that is what I say as a lawyer. I am thick-skinned. I know why she is remarking me and I am remarking her. Why judge wants to shake me or shake me up and ask me to leave the court. So that is why I think for a young spokesperson, old spokesperson, larger Shazia ji mujhe achi lagri hai, nahi achi lagri hai, mir pe tane daal rahe hai, main pe kya karon ye paanch baat hai, main hai, keke iss hii ganta mein uthne hai. And then I will say sorry to him. I have noticed this and I think we will do a very big service to the country agar main kabhi saare spokesperson ko off-screen dekhadu. Yes, you are off-camera your best friends. You are like, yeah, yeah, let's meet for coffee. Let's go out of the common logon ke liye, it will be difficult to believe. No, I think that is also a quality. Yeah, I think that's a quality which the court lawyers also teach, a senior also teach. The disagreement in the courtroom you leave in the courtroom. And the beauty of our democracy which a spokesperson always remember is we respectfully disagree and we agree to respectfully disagree. And I believe that to abuse someone, to humiliate someone, to down someone, even if I have a few days, if I don't have any evidence or other evidence, we give each other that space. It is the easiest thing to show someone below, to give someone respect, to respect someone's honor, and to disagree with someone who respectfully karna sabse mushkil kaam hai. And if we have mastered that art, we have a long journey. I have incentives, I have ambitions, I have dreams to sit in the parliament. Either I can be an animal of populism, be a TV channel whose life is only two years, or I may be a derby horse or a long stallion who can run without getting exhausted. So I want to be that horse who can run without getting exhausted. And we wish you all the best and we are very sure that we will see you in parliament very soon. That's my selfishness. Thank you. That is why I'm going to write to the Prime Minister. He's made such a big parliament, uski seats karden 1000. 1000 men dal den quota. Young people under 45, irrespective, maheela purush, yeh ho nahi chahiye toh shahid amara chance lag jai. Thank you so much. Yeh aakka waise bhi nigle ka chance. Thank you. Thank you so much. Some mic. What, what number is this Anurag ji? What number is this? I think sir, because all of your experience much better, there are enough laws and regulations in the country, whether it is a Cable Regulation Act, whether it is the news broadcaster's standard authority. I appeared for Justice Sikri and for all the spokespersons I made a debate, they have powers. They have all the laws to tame TV channels. But the point is wo NBSA ke paaz, there are specific guidelines if a anchor or a spokesperson incites, insults, provokes, sensationalizes, speaks without fact that TV channel can face a ban. So India has no dearth of laws and regulations. The only dearth is of intention. Intention and to tame them. Sir, may I take hope from Netflix in Amazon? Earlier in the Bollywood movies, the only appetite was for a girl boy dancing around the Rose Garden. Then it shifted to in a very sexist manner to only item girls dancing that appetite became. But now when the content came, OTT, Netflix, Amazon, the people showed their appetite for some serious movies of some serious content. So I think for political class, since 1960, 70s. But consumer, we are the girls and boys dancing. I think time will come where that platform will change, the pressure will be on change, news channels to change. And I'm just hopeful and waiting for that in my lifetime. When your children see you, I know you have two children.  I know your way, mostly your way composed to try to stick to facts and you never make personal comment. But sometimes, you know, as you said that in those 4,000 TV videos, once you got right, you're all women. So have you got a comment from your family about all the time? I think and I'm I can say in on on record. And again, I'm not referring to that fact when Rajiv Jaggi died on that fateful night of 14th August, I still remember. And, and there are not and and there are now many cases of young people getting a heart attack for some strange reason about amongst boys and girls. And I got a call from my father that son evaluate what's what's what's in it for you? What are you doing?  So this is what I've signed up for. So either I train myself mentally, health wise, because this system is here to stay or I change my lanes. Yeah. No, no, also because the last few days I've got into appearances is that I think sir, have you taken a concierge of this, you know, coming back? Sir, in the sense, we've never gone outside. But the two years as ma'am is referring, yes, there has been somewhat a conscious call also. I'm active on the TV debate, the headline and the everything. But two years ago, I understood that it was a little bit of a game of the front seat. Your favorite editor on the you really don't want me to go on all TV channels. Sir, I like both the spectrum.  I'll tell you about certain. I don't want to name an anchor. I like a more tough anchor who doesn't allow me to speak because the more he challenges me and pushes me to the wall, it trains me more. The more he or yeah, I like it because they bring up your boxing partner. So they have trained me. I'm thick-skinned because of their thing. Secondly, I like an anchor or editor, one person, their humility and because young outside TV channels, there are a few anchors who are very bad in the TV show, but they will always make a point to receive a young person at the car, drop that young person at the car. There are very people in India who are very celebrated, who are very liberal. But when you go to their shows, they don't raise their eyes from the phone screen to say hello or hi. Thank you so much for being so honest. And I hope you're back here. Also, I would request the presence of Priyanka Baduri, associate director, marketing and events exchange. Can we take you to please join us on stage and felicitate Jai Veer Shergilji. A big round of applause for Jai Veerji. Please also thank you so much. Nazia Ji, your second session in a row. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. From that fireside chat, we move on to our next fireside chat. It's on the changing role of a spokesperson. And please join me in welcoming on stage, Shazia Ilmiji from BJP and Rohail Amin, senior editor, exchange for media group. Ladies and gentlemen, please give them a huge, huge round of applause. Today I will sit on the right side. Okay. Sorry. One second. So great. You know, the unique part of you being here and speaking is that you have been on the both, you're being on both sides of the fence anchor and now a spokesperson. First of all, give me a sense of what has changed, you know, the role as far as the role is concerned, has it changed? What has changed? Well, a lot has changed. So I was a debut anchor of star network, which is now a VP news. And I remember those were different times. Now that was, I mean, it was print media and electronic media. And we were the prime competitors to Ash Tak, which was a sole news channel, so to speak. And there was good old NDTV, which we took over as star network and in Hindi. So it was just Ash Tak and Star because he was yet to become 24 hours. So this is how it was at that point of time. Now we have a whole plethora of social media, new sources, citizen journalists, and what have you. So there's a deluge of information. So we don't remain one of the primary sources at all. A lot has changed. I mean, it's, it's, it can't be fathomed really. So yeah, I have been on both the sides. I got trained from Jamia Masscom. So I'm also a producer and a technical person. So I do wear many hats. I'm one of the few anchors who was also a producer. So I was a technical nuts and bolts person. I mean, I would be directing. I don't remember most of the camera persons yesterday who were there. So I've worked with them, like setting up mics, being in the PCR. We're both from Jamia. Yeah. Masscom. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So that's how it was. So we got, I got trained to be a technical producer, like not even an anchor. Anchoring was just the extra thing I did later on much later in life. So yeah, so I'm totally from the industry, like nuts and bolts and editorial later on. A lot has changed. And I think the spokesperson's job is very, very demanding. I still feel that I'm capable of a lot of more technical stuff. And I miss it. So I love it when my time comes to anchor, because I get to meet the camera person. And that is my primary joy. So for me, it's a very different experience. I said the composition and I said, this is more, there's more depth here. My affection is with my technical thing. So I'm that sense more unique, I guess, than anything else. And also, I guess I've always been, I was a Hindi news anchor, but I always spoke in English. So there was a challenge at that point of time. But going back to your question, I think there is the whole politics of hate, the malice, the additional onslaught of social media and what it brings with it. The storm of hate, I think that is something that we contend with. And I think the spokesperson's job is to sift and see. And just sometimes it's so quick, because there is so much new stuff coming in that your job has become that of a researcher, of somebody who has to find facts faster than anyone else can.  You have to know your stuff. So I think knowing exactly where you stand vis-a-vis not just your party, but vis-a-vis your own worldview of what you want to set out to do. And vis-a-vis humanity. So it's, I think, important. I've been part of one of the most sensitive issues in the last almost eight years in the VGP now. Whether it's triple the luck, whether it's a sensitive issue of hijab that went on, and the importance of believing in the Supreme Court on the Ram Temple judgment and ensuring that we have to work towards a unifying cause and not towards hatred. So that has been a very important job, I think. And I think every spokesperson should know that it cannot be limited just to party politics and electoral politics. There is an end game. And what is the end game? The end game is keeping India together, keeping communities together, raising the bar, raising the consciousness of people. So for me, that's where I come from. I come from very almost like a prosperous Muslim ghetto, Chamanganj Kanpur. I'll never forget where I come from. So that part of me is alive. Nobody can take that away. You know, we're talking about the change. One clear change that people say is that before party spokesperson became the poster boys and poster girls of television, the level of discourse was different. And now the level of discourse on TV has come down, thanks to them. Is it so? Well, not really, because you see if you see some of, yes and no. I think some of the party spokesperson's have behaved in a very responsible manner, and I will speak of all parties here. And the kind of ugliness that is there on television, I mean, I cringe from within. But sometimes it's also given to you.  I'm free to exercise my political choice. And there's a reason why I am where I am. And I can please talk to me at least, and I'll give you reasons why I'm where I am, but this visceral hate that is given to you. And then there are on the triple salat debates, the kind of things I've heard. Rohail, I cannot tell you, it's been very ugly. And people, I mean, Javier, my very dear friend, and we have, we, he's, there are times when we have been part of debates, where others have fought so much, then we both said, let's get out of here. You know, people speaking for our parties who are not, who are not in the party, but they're supposedly speaking for our respective parties. We said it was getting so ugly, the Javier, and I said, Shazia, it is so hateful. So it's for the spokespersons, yes, and the parties. But what is being unleashed across by citizens, I think sometimes people are more farmer political than even the spokespersons are.  But the whole atmosphere so appreciated. So I, it's just very scary. I just want to take a back seat and I said, do not talk to me about this. I want to have dinner at your place. I want to know about cinema. I want to know how your son is doing. I mean, I love children. So I want to know about the preschool and, but it's just about hardcore politics and hate. And it's everywhere.  And some anchors do not. So I must say that it's just become the standard way. It's like an Akala. Go and, you know, just, it's just go for it. Go get at each other. Absolutely.  And then you, so some people bring out the Nobel in you and some people don't. So it becomes very ignoble. And it's, you're supposed to fend for yourself there. And sometimes it's very, it's very, I mean, it's, it's very humiliating. Because as, as, as, as a, as a lady, you're doing your best and you're sticking to forget the party brief, but whatever you know about the Quran, about the constitution, about the human values, but the kind of filth. So just because some people disagree with you because of the party stand, but they know what is correct, they will just go against you only because you belong to a party. But that is also equally wrong. I think somewhere we have to stop being just party people and be decent human beings. And I think that's important. So I guess I might have to make a point for that. No, also, you know, do you take this blame that party spokespersons, you know, they play on the divisive lines while at the same time it, it is a friendly match or they're best of the friends at the same time. Isn't that a disservice to people who are taking you so seriously? I mean, from that standpoint, how would you respond to it when people ask these questions? No, I think when, when I think when it becomes so vicious and on screen, and I guess, you know, party spokespersons also must realize one thing, you know, I have been told by party colleagues and people, you're not aggressive, you don't say anything else. I don't say as much aggression as I want, I get angry, I will keep angry with myself and aggression will come to me. There will be something about the country that will be a lie, I will defend it very strongly and fiercely, but there is no place for insolence, I am sorry, we cannot stand for it. I'm, there is a new guidelines there and I think constantly, you know, getting in the community. So it's also the responsibility of parties also, not to make everything about Hindus and Muslims. You know, there is civic work going on. You can't just make everything, they're supposed to have five areas that have been chosen for anti-encroachment drive, but you want to pick up only Shaheen Baal. That is also playing to the list thing. So we must call them out also that why are you doing this? So as a spokesperson, I'm saying they are Jethpur, there's Madanpura, and this is what's going on, but you want to pick up only Shaheen Baal. No, so let's also do that, let's also be responsible. So when an anchor will do that, I will say this, it's just a set game.  That is very predictable. It is very boring. It is a set pattern. I want to tell every anchor, every party, every spokesperson, even citizens of India, I want to bring in some questions, but I want to ask you one last question. How can we bring that sanity into this discourse according to you? How much of the party interference is needed there in your view to bring that sanity in debates? I mean, I just give up merely because of boredom. I really want to talk about something else. I swear, I've become so bored with it. You know, it's really like a song. I really want to do something like that, because I'm really bored. You can sing on this forum. That's okay. No, really, it's like it's just too much. And I know it by heart. I know, but you know, I'm one person who was out on the streets, on the street. I've fought against everything. I've compromised my entire personal life because I'm in the field. Every day, I worked of my life. I didn't need to work, but, you know, I've killed myself to be there. who are you you don't know how much I've done but because I'm in the BJP I must be shouted at.  Typical format BJP SP you know I mean it is so standard or we same same same same boring java we do to me me we what about tree it is just plain boring it is not intelligent my problem is there my problem is that is just stupid after some time you will not get solutions so poor I it's a mass hypnosis of a sort right and let's just get out of it I just want to bring in some questions anyone has any questions before we break for lunch in the next 10 minutes Shajja Ji, my question is that when someone is invited on TV they want to know who is in opposition to which party they are sitting with so is it right because they are coming to talk about the party.  I will ask a general question for you because if Supriya Srinath is there then she will bring in old things like that so a lot of people ask for instance I I've started doing that with I'll be very honest because I cannot help but be honest as you can see so I've started doing that with India today I've I've started asking them they got they got SFI Qureshi so I wanted to ask so I at least I had a reference ready that SFI Qureshi has said this this on many occasions so once they get somebody from the opposition and a neutral voice now there's another preference this is something else look out for I mean you know many of you are in the business look out for so there is somebody from BGP there is somebody from SP my very good friend Anurag and there is a third person who's a political analyst now this political analyst who's a neutral voice how neutral is he or she he refused to be part of Al Jazeera yesterday you know why because Kavita Krishnan was talking about from one side and I was talking from the other side and third was Arfa Khanum Arfa Sherwani Arfa is not a neutral journalist so I knew that and I said no that's not neutral so it's one of those things so I think that we even even news channels have to be fair and spokesperson must call it out since Anna Hazare movement I have learned to do that that you know you cannot call so when it's a person or a neutral because neutral is a person who takes both sides who sees the case by the merits and demerits so my only so it's good to know who that neutral journalist will be and amongst the spokesperson's who will it be I guess news news is such that the event of the day I am more hopeful at Olympics hopefully someday much more so it is a very topical news it has to be very topical but do you suggest to anchors here in the air when the air is bad apart from that talk about the air if the cold is coming then hospital healthcare system such serious things like air death I don't think we talk enough about the air northern I don't think this healthcare capability cyberbullying cyberbullying toxic whether you like them or not I don't know what people keep saying about the day I saw a few people who died I don't know so how do you suggest to anchors because the event of the day is the nature of the news but beyond that on the days that there is not any major negative or positive have you encountered a situation where you gave us an idea and they have done it, does it happen that you do it or only events is where your focus gets no we do say there are good stories there are some decent there is progress done here or there but the problem is Anurag ji everything has become politically politics is so much in us that if we say something good then it will happen I go beyond neutrality I agree with you like I got to know Christian medical college a child hung himself I felt so and he wrote on the wall mommy is not your fault but I can't take it anymore because of bullying because of pressure I got to know yesterday from a friend nobody wrote about it because children are scared and this is a big issue this should be the headline news cyberbullying what women in politics go through I cannot tell you what we go through I am sure women from other parties go through and I want to be one with them that they should not rejoice when I get rebuked similarly I should not rejoice when they get rebuked it's an indignity that you suffer but it's become so politicized that some of us will keep quiet she has been called names it's disgusting so we have to go beyond that I wish there was a session on that and I wish anchors got the women's spokesperson you are doing it on the 30th it's really sad you are alright with it it's really not okay about the air, about the soil I am so glad you are doing that this is what is going to this is the long term this is dharti maa this is dharti maa, this is boomi but nobody is talking about it in other words when there is no divisive day that day it can be a holiday for spokesperson we can have so many unifying things things that unifying us but no I think somewhere the divisive agenda is getting into our system but you know Raghji don't blame just the anchors in the news it's become a part of the system society, so TRPs the TRPs are dependent on that the more divisive you are the better you do no he is there, I am an anchor I will also discuss with you thank you Pankajji has a question he is an editor for media Anand ji and Vikas ji when you go to the debate let's see how the anchor is tackling your attitude I am so disgusted because I know the anchors I know each anchor and the antecedents the camera man in the house I know the entire production team because I am an industry like Anarag ji I know everyone they know me they know everyone they don't mess with me I talk like this I don't say anything I point out a lot of things I connect memory has a function to connect and recall so I recall incidents what I do is I often go and then I listen to Sadguru I get a little angry no judgment I use some spirituality I get a little angry I get a little upset I have to use a lot of things a little philosophy, a little history a little friendship, a little enmity I said that spokespersons have clear head and skin of a rhino I don't have a rhino I listen to so many bad things I get a little upset I get a little angry I call Praveen people say what they are writing a lot of my friends suffer I can never have a skin of a rhino I am extremely emotional so I have been told not to see twitter remarks Go in your mic and I will tell you. Wait, who cuts the cord please you are the point now. No, no, no. You are the one who is the leader here.  I know that this is going to be a party. But it was a presence. This is a first and the last one. I am telling you. Wait, from my Lamar. Sir, please. This was your presence. This is back. Thank you so much. Okay, ladies and gentlemen. But yes, time for lunch. We meet back after half an hour precisely. Thank you. Thank you so much. 15. Okay, 15 minutes. It's to 15 to 30. We meet sharp. Okay. Okay. Welcome back everybody. I hope everybody's had their lunch. Yes, no. Yes. Okay. It's now time for the next fireside chat. Okay. It's a fireside session on communication versus cacophony. Okay. Okay. This is cacophony. And ladies and gentlemen. Now that you've all had lunch, I'm sure you will join me in a much louder or better manner. Please welcome on stage Priyanka Chaturvedi from Shiv Sena and Dr. Anirag Bhattra chairman and editor in chief BW and exchange for media group. Okay. While Dr. Bhattra is joining us, we once again would like to invite Nazia Ji to please help us with the same. Please a bigger one. Lovely. Mostly, you know, the sessions after lunch are not very good sessions because, you know, people have just eaten and then they want to sleep. That is why we keep the best people for post lunch sessions so that, you know, they can keep you awake. So we have one of the best spokesperson, Ms. Chaturvedi with us. So, you know, we have been debating this since morning most of the spokesperson have been talking of, you know, all the things that they do on television and they have been in consensus saying that all of that is not right.  Tell us about it, you know. When did you feel that these debates became so difficult to handle that, you know, instead of having a conversation, it became just too much of noise? Actually, firstly, thank you so much for having me here. For noise, I would say ever since I got onto the spokesperson role, I've only been seeing debates which are very high decibel, low content and it reduces itself to being tutu meh meh. It used to disturb me a lot because I'm not like someone was talking outside that we end up becoming thick skin. I have been doing this for so many years. I haven't been able to develop a thick skin at all and it impacts me a lot and every time I went on television, I went to that responsibility that there is a whole lot of population which is watching you, which has tuned into you. There are lots of youngsters who are looking at you and you cannot be reduced to fighting and screaming on television and you need to ensure that you come with content otherwise you reduce yourself to making it a screaming shouting match. So I've always maintained that from day one of my profile. I remember when I was being made, I used to always wait for the turn to come to me and people would kick each other and leave and I didn't have time. At first, I used to call the television channels and say no one stopped calling me and I said, what happened? So I asked one of them who had got friendly to me, what happened? Why aren't you calling me on television anymore? You don't do what I do and you don't speak in between and you just wait for the turn. So that's not good for our TRP ranking. I was like, okay. So that was one thing that I learned that even television channels promote high decibel discussion. But I've never been one of those. So it came very easy to me. But you've still managed to be a good spokesperson in this kind of environment. How have you survived? So how did you survive by just doing this? I think it depends on how people are looking at you and if people are appreciating you that is what ultimately matters. So what television channel expects me to do I'm not here to do their job.  I'm here as a representative on a particular topic. So I very well make comments on the topic because I was invited for that topic. If it deviates to any other thing you have to be well read enough to be able to counter that. So I think content is always king over the noise. The cacophony versus content is extremely important. But I was told that as soon as I start doing this we mute the TV. So people are watching the TV and they are reading the stickers but no one is listening to your content. So you just mentioned that you used to do this and then the television channel stopped calling you then how did it change? How did they again start calling you back? No, so I think they realized that I'm not going to change and they better take me seriously about this. But of course sometimes it happens that you also end up speaking something but even when I'm angry even when I'm very cheesed off about something if someone directs a personal attack at me even then I ensure that in the opposite answer I'm not insulting anyone even from somewhere. I'm only sticking to content I'm embarrassing them using sarcasm I'm telling them that what you're doing is wrong. So I think it's a very big up of your mind. How do you want to project yourself? Spokespersons are also at the end of the day we get so much abuse it's very hot rolling but at the end of the day what are you giving to the people some information that is how I work and sooner or later I guess they realize that even my comebacks are I mean I would say well researched and they're not just some arope that I'm putting so I think that helps Has it ever happened that someone has after directly personally attack maybe later they will apologize off screen. People are very different on screen and very different off screen. I've always seen all of you irrespective of party lines be very friendly with each other like you were just having lunch with Shazia and everything is fine but once you're on screen it's very different. So is it too much of drama out there and once it goes off camera people come apologize or they try to tell you we didn't mean that or there was some kind of a political compulsion that we had to say that So see no one becomes an enemy we have taken a lot of stance of the subject so when it comes to discussion we increase in our you know in the game but as friends when I was growing up my younger sister used to love Shri Devi and I used to love Madhuri Dixit so we both used to fight over Madhuri and Shri Devi. So every competition who was the number one actress they all feel that their view is the best but these are much serious issues right and sometimes the attack is right on a public platform somebody is attacking you getting personal so sometimes I've had a lot of times that when someone has hit out at me personally they have apologized sometimes they have asked me to get it on screen sometimes they have asked me to get it on screen and we have to move on but there are many who personally attack and then we say that we didn't say anything then it's sad that how you are going to make these television debates happen especially as a woman it becomes very easy for men to just randomly say these are page 3 socialites these are like that we tell you that these are page 3 socialites so in this way someone will say that your SSR has increased how does it happen a lot of people say that so let's think a little sometimes even you know if your attacks are like this you are an inverted looking what content are you sharing with people is it how you would want people to think of you that to where news is considered to consume my families it's not like exactly and I can't even tell you Hindu, Muslim, loudspeaker Hanuman, Chalisa on these there are more debates on these can you tell me when we eat food in a day is food not expensive for all of us what is being expensive that all Hindus are learning Islam that is happening to India so somewhere I think there should be some consciousness that comes in that our responsibility is towards creating content which connects with the people of this country which speaks on behalf of the people of this country if you would see now that I am in the Rajya Sabha whatever my interventions are are very people driven are very driven towards creating better societies for our people so once you are in that position I would always say if you are in a position of power in any way and you have this munch and mic then make that munch and mic an impactful method don't reduce it don't even listen to the people of that point they have problems at home they are working hard they are not earning money they are not getting a job and we are listening to them on TV so Priyanka is in your party there is some kind of training when you become a spokesperson because you know that is what we were discussing in the morning that over the years the quality of spokesperson much like quality of content and quality of anchors because you know now we have some 400 news channels there is a clear you know in the sense that it looks compromised so do you believe that there is a need for training of spokesperson and I was in fact when I was reading yesterday I found out there are some formal schools they are charging 25,000 rupees are you kidding me yeah they are charging 25,000 rupees for a course in how to become a spokesperson my god you can teach there you can teach there this is for younger people you know I take it as a sense of responsibility or the responsibility feeling you truly love what you are doing and you want to ensure that people are getting the right message this money actually I will not sit in judgment about it but I am telling you there is no training the first day when my announcement happened that the next day a lot of television channels started calling me I was nervous and I was debating with some really senior people and then I took a step back I was in no hurry I said when I will go I will be fully prepared and be prepared to take on all the attack that comes my way and to be giving it back in equal measure so all the grooming happened on its own the kind of grooming also that you take you have to be well read you have to be well informed and you should be able to go with research till you don't have that context no training academy in the world will be able to teach you that that I can say I will go I will spend this money and I will not get a job Prenka also has spokesperson you kind of become face of the party right because initially people read and then they know that you know if it's Prenka she is from you changed the party how was that transition because for a very long time people associated with you with a certain party and an ideology and whatever and then there is a sudden shift so is it difficult to transition actually for me it wasn't a difficult transition but for people of course because I began being associated and perhaps they took a liking to what I was speaking that is why the association continued but if you look at Prenka Chaturvedi the issue she spoke then the issue she speaks now continue being the same but perhaps I have got a little more independence to be able to take stances on issues that talk about you know when you talk about a secular nation secular nation does not mean showing favoritism or creating fear in any communities when you are secular then you are totally giving up your personal religious identities you are keeping them in your home and you are working towards whatever the constitutional responsibilities are so today I perhaps in a better position to be able to take those stances even if I am trolled for it the liberal variety trolls me for it they can continue to troll me for it but I am working towards a secular country and that secular country means no favoritism and no appeasement it has to be an equal society equal for all but there cannot be harassment you mean to say that the transition with this change now you talk with more conviction yes the conviction comes from the feeling that you know you are not bound by a certain set of you know how for some people it's about their vote bank etc I don't do that now and also transitions are always difficult I would always say that transitions are difficult even for people to gather that but I would say what in my transition what helped me a lot was the support that came from the people of this country I can't even begin to tell you I thought it would be so negative that everyone will see me negatively but they were all very positive and that only comes when you have built a certain amount of credibility and I have only worked towards credibility content and being able to present the best of your abilities and I think that is what ultimately matters people fade away end their careers and shelf life happens and I also consciously keep myself away if the television is doing a lot of rosy rosy rosy then I will take a step back no one wants to see press approximately every day on TV in the sense that I will only go for these many debates in a week or a month as long as it's content driven what are your favourite topics like national crisis international issues India's global positioning youth women when it is around frivolous religious whatever I will not go I refuse and the best thing about the party also is that we will only talk on governance we have a responsibility in Maharashtra which is about issues of Maharashtra please go for it but if it is the people who are not connected the people are affected take a step back I can't encourage this content which I don't want my own children to watch that is my basic principle if I don't want my children to watch why should I trust it on other people's children Pranka you