Good morning, Raphael. Would you please test your audio and your visual, please? Raphael, if you would try that again? Hi. Good morning. Morning. I Just wanted to let you know that I have started the recording and we are streaming live at this point. Oh Okay, that's good. Thank you. And if you could just test your camera, that would be great. Thank you. Good to see you Little tired. You got out of class late last night Was it a good class? Yeah Back in a few minutes. All right, sounds good. I'll see you in a little bit Good morning councilmember Tibbetts. If you would go ahead and test your audio and visual that would be wonderful Yep. Hey, good morning. Good morning And just so that you know, we are recording at this point and streaming live Okay, we'll try not to be like that school word on east bay That would be just my luck No And congratulations on the new the newest member of the family. Thank you Congratulations Thanks, Raphael. How are you doing? I'm doing pretty well. Thank you. Good Warming up already I know my wife and I were walking yesterday and she said, you know, this place doesn't really have Seasons it kind of goes winter to summer to hellfire to winter Good morning, all good morning. Good morning, john Were we expecting victoria today? We are. Um, so if we wanted to skip her a few more minutes Sounds good. Thank you. Give me 30 seconds. Sure Good morning councilmember slumming. If you would go ahead and test your audio for Hola, buenos dias All right. Well, let's call this meeting to order I'm going to do the reading of the Brown act provisions here. So bear with me Do the provisions of the governor's executive orders Which dispense certain requirements of the brown act and the order of the health officer of the county of Sonoma to shelter in place to minimize the spread of COVID-19 The downtown subcommittee will be conducting today's meeting in a virtual setting using zoom webinar Community committee members and staff are participating from remote locations and practicing social distancing Members of the public may view and listen to the meeting as noted on the city's website and as noted on the agenda Members of the public wishing to speak during item three public comment or during public hearing items will be able to do so By utilizing the raised hand feature Or pressing star nine on their phone. They'll then be given the ability to address the committee Chair will you take the role? I will go ahead and do that What the record reflect that all members are present Okay, terrific. Um, let's move on to item two public comments So this is the time when any person may address matters not listed on this agenda But which are within the subject matter of the jurisdiction the public may comment on agenda items when the item is called Each speaker is allowed three minutes Do we have anybody wishing to speak? I apologize. I forgot to unmute. We have no raised hands at this time Okay, thanks. We'll go to item three new business. Um, we have the railroad square association community benefit district update rafael, you want to Give us some updates on that one Yes, and actually i'm chris wilson. I'm sorry. Yeah, I have a brief update and then i'll um Turn it over to chris wilson the executive director of the railroad square association Uh, and my brief update is related to a wayfinding project that i've been working with Along with the wayfinding committee which is represented by a couple of more members as well as a store owner So we have held a couple of meetings with city staff including members from the tpw As well as the planning division and so far things are Are looking pretty good. Uh, there is some more Research that needs to be completed related to The fact that the city's design guidelines talks about wayfinding signs in the urban Design chapter and the downtown plan also talks about wayfinding signs. So we need to determine exactly if Planning review is required or if planning needs to get further involved So we're looking into that in the meantime Again, the the meetings have been very positive and the committee members have gotten some Uh, good feedback so the idea is to The proposed project would involve up to 12 signs in the robo square area But we also uh, want to hold uh discussions with the dao as well as the uh, Sonoma County Museum because they also have talked about wayfinding along The downtown corridor and as well. So we definitely want, uh, you know Some similar aesthetics design So, uh, more to come a little at a later time. So I'll definitely report On on upcoming updates and now I'll turn it over to chris. Uh, that has more Good morning. Thank you afael and congratulations councilmember Tibbetts on the baby very excited. Thank you So um, unfortunately our biggest issue right now is the transience and Vandalism that's occurring in railroad square Want to acknowledge the time and the support from the both the city and the and jonathan wolf from our police department Who've been responsive to many of our calls? we're experiencing Vandalism broken windows and sometimes there's even been multiple incidences for the at the same business So we've increased nighttime security starting tonight a dedicated car will be patrolling Railroad square five nights a week and then on two nights will be random Drive-throughs And the homeless encampments are increasing again under fifth and fifth and sixth street overpasses, which i'm sure you are aware of It's impacting our hotels and especially the ac hotel Their guests have to walk from their parking lot that they have on the north And right past the area of the encampments to get to the hotel. So the hotel has been experiencing loss of business guests leaving and checking out of the hotels to go elsewhere So it's it's a big problem We are committed to help address the homeless issue and trying to with the goal of creating some Collaborate efforts between the city and police chamber and other Others to kind of try to focus on solutions and action steps Because we see this is really impacting the community and the and the economy of our community Our economic future With the nice weather we can only expect it to get worse So we're really trying to stay on top of it and address the problems before the Encampments get so large that it's even harder to take care of But on a more positive note It has been really great to see the improvement along the Prince Greenway With the cleanup efforts have been made down there significant Additional lightings in the works and that's gonna that will also help a lot Really want to thank Jason nut for meeting with us and helping to facilitate the cleaning of that area Most of our recent efforts because of this has been really stepping up the security and street maintenance In railroad square. So we've hired a street maintenance company that comes one time a week and just focuses on cleaning, weeding, light trimming Overall street maintenance to help keep the district looking more welcoming down there for Excuse me our shoppers and our and our patrons Raphael already mentioned the wayfinding project and thank you Raphael for your work on that That's So you already talked about that our tree project is moving slowly as we're waiting for additional bids For tree trimming removal and replacement focusing first on fifth street and fourth street I really want to thank cadence for meeting with us to share your progress downtown and how we might benefit benefit from working with the same company Because the railroad square has older sidewalks and some concrete issues down there. We're waiting for Another bid that will include the scope of that and that could be that could be significant that we are trying to move that project forward And then we're working with the merchants who are creating some co-op radio ads That'll run from April through October to promote business in railroad square and our merchants Thanks cadence again for including us in the excellent adventures We've had a lot of families down the stores said there's been a lot of traffic down It's been fun to go down and watch kids running around looking for their clues So I think the merchants have felt that it's it's really helped to visit increase the visibility in our district So in general our restaurants and our shoppers Or our shops are experiencing more traffic Diners people seem to be wanting to get out As as we can within our limits and I'm I'm happy to say that there there is a feeling of optimism So that concludes my report Thank you chris. Um any questions from council? I'm not seeing any questions. Um, we'll turn to the public for any public comment on item 3.1 There are no raised hands at this time Chair tidbits, uh, if I may real fast, uh, there's also a meeting Set up this afternoon with the Sonoma County farmers market And chris will be participating in that there's a proposed project to the for the possibility of holding a a weekly farmers market So we're going to talk to Callie from that sector and see how she what kind of guidance she can provide But that's also in the works And um, I think I forgot to say good morning to all of you. So good morning Chair tidbits and council members Fleming and Solier and everybody else on the call Thank you Raphael for bringing that remembering the farmers market. Yes That's it Yeah, thanks Raphael All right, well, let's move on to item 3.2. Thank you again chris and Raphael. So I think we have Candice uh coming up Good morning everyone Uh, congratulations chair tidbits. Hopefully you have nobody can hear the background noise in my house But I have a feeling you Might be able to familiar sounds you now Um, I want to just start by saying thanks to everyone echoing previous comments Once again, all the city staff have been really grateful I mean, I'm really very grateful for all the work the city staff are putting in and they've been working very hard to support our efforts Um, a couple quick updates just for uh, general things happening downtown I don't think that we've had any new businesses open since we last met But we are anticipating at least one this coming month with fleet feet moving from world road square to third street next to willabies And then in the next couple of months, we have uh, two new restaurants opening on the 500 block in the old stout brothers and text wasabi and I those are Anticipated opening in in one to two months. So hopefully this summer they'll be there And then we also have three Of the of santa rosa plaza's b street storefronts being occupied soon, which is really exciting. So Grill santa rosa is opening this month uh new Mediterranean and um american spot I think you've all probably seen the signs because the signs are up already but they open soon There's new salon coming in there as well. And then three disciples is moving there They're tasting room to be able to tread space. So that's very exciting Very exciting move But i'll keep everyone updated as I learn more and we have a couple others that are in the works But I don't quite have details on them, but definitely want to make sure everyone knows Of what's moving in and out downtown Our 500 block business owners met Just a couple days ago to talk through the closure of their block There's they're the only block that has um consistently voted to keep the uh Keep the barricades in place and those who were in attendance at the meeting Because the majority of the business owners there today they um they are Yesterday they decided they wanted to keep the closures in place for the time being uh really in recognition of kind of the tough spot that our restaurants are in because even Right now at 25 capacity for some for some of our restaurants that means that If they have 25 capacity, they're they're able to socially distance tables But their capacity won't change at 50 or 75 because they need to keep that social distancing in place So even if they could potentially increase capacity, they can't actually Do so because of their space limitations. So it's just very challenging for them Right now. So they're very appreciative that all the other businesses are understanding and willing to let them Kind of maximize the outdoor space there Um, especially since they're also reporting that most of their customers still want to eat outside So that'll likely change as more and more people get vaccinated, but for now It's kind of what's helping them hold on Um, we also know that we get consistently positive feedback from the community about having having portions of the street closed Definitely some don't don't like it. But uh, that atmosphere is something that a lot of them have Really appreciated especially last summer. So we'll be looking to figure out how we can Replicate that work a little bit And then just to kind of repeat what I've Said and in probably our All the meetings I've attended here, but also to reiterate chris's comments just that the homeless issue remains the main issue on ongoing concerns with Vandalism comfort of patrons and Issues issues with staff working downtown. So it's definitely a challenge One that our street plus team and catholic charities work very hard on But it doesn't appear to be getting any better We are worried like chris said with the warm weather. It does the population tends to increase And if if downtown isn't quite Excuse me back to the way Usually is um, there's a chance it could get even worse than it is now So, um, we're going to continue to focus on that and collaborate with our partners at Downtown enforcement teams. So thanks to them for always being responsive when needed And catholic charities as we try to get Interested folks housed as well Our DO committees are doing a lot right now to actively support all aspects of downtown. So we have an ad hoc group um, that's Uh working to try and support the possibility of the county center moving downtown as well as the eifd So they're right now trying to meet with uh ad hoc committee members for the county and the city To share those details and and see how they can help support both of those projects Our community engagement committee hosted a community-wide meeting last week to get feedback from business owners on what they'd like to see over the summer so, um They're going to take that feedback and kind of put together a a plan that then our business owners will be able to See as we roll out They also asked that we reach out to the public to get their feedback So we did a brief survey that we pushed out online to get a little more input from members of the public As we kind of shape what summer plans will look like Uh, this committee will also be fundraising to try to put those summer plans in place So they've got a lot that they're looking forward to and Grateful to have a good group of business owners. They're representing different sectors in different locations throughout downtown Our business development ad hoc committee has also been meeting. They're working on figuring out new ways to support New businesses that are moving downtown As well as recruiting new businesses to the area So thanks to race for for really jumping in and being part of that committee But they're they're just getting started and there's definitely some exciting collaboration on the way through that Our design and improvement committee Has been talking through a variety of projects and we're hoping that we'll be able to get started on printing and replacing trees along forth We just got a great contribution from suburban propane to help make that possible So we're talking through those options as well And again, hopefully working with railroad square if it makes sense to kind of Put together an economy of scale proposal there um Are and I did want to you know, Raphael mentioned wayfinding actually spoke to no well yesterday Raphael So trying to get in the loop on on all things wayfinding because that is that is a priority of our Our downtown district as well We're just a little further behind railroad square on that Our parking committee is also meeting soon next week on monday So that they can review the feedback we've gotten from our business owners about garage parking There's a lot of interest from them in trying to keep the first hour free and and free weekends while downtown is still trying to kind of rebound from All that all that's been going on But we understand that's that's the challenge to the parking district and their budget has taken a huge hit so Trying to figure out a way we can kind of work together on that and I know kim will probably be reporting later but Definitely staying in touch with her as we kind of work through those challenges couple updates on our non-event events As chris said the excellent adventure has been going really well. We've gotten great feedback about this Bayside church has really been an amazing partner They're creative and and dedicated and really investing In supporting downtown business and it's made a huge difference. It's it's pretty Pretty cool when you have a company or business that's been downtown for You know Over a hundred years and they say they've never had so many new people come into their store um, you know, so doing radio ads and ads in the paper and Promotions and sales hasn't brought people in but something like this Has brought in new um new potential customers So, you know, it's been free to the businesses. Bayside has Has been the group that's really spent all the money to make this happen And a lot of their time and effort as well. So it's just it's a really great thing to see they've been again amazing partners and it's been a huge benefit We're still trying to work with the museum to creatively fill a couple of the empty spaces downtown Thankfully, we're having to kind of shift a little bit as those empty spaces get Kind of move into the lease process. It's a good problem to have but hopefully we'll have we'll see some historic photos up there relatively soon And then our our poetry's program is opening on saturday, which we're really excited about So this is the final installation of the open and out program and it's an interactive poetry exhibit So it's a month long april is national poetry month. So starting today Uh, and it'll run through the end of the month. So I really want to encourage everyone to go down the courthouse where to participate It's child kid friendly family friendly really open to anyone and everyone. So definitely check that out And again, that opens on saturday and then A little bit in the future, but we're still trying to figure out the feasibility of having a seasonal ice rink on the square Really, not sure if that's possible, but hopefully we'll be able to determine that soon There's been a big push from members of the dao board to try and see that happen. So We're working through some of the challenges right now with pgne And an electrician and support from the city to try and at least figure out what next steps could be if it's possible Um The the last thing to report on which is just an update on the asala found because I know I always get asked Still don't have a firm date, but um, hopefully in the next couple of months and as soon as I have one I will definitely send that out. There is A meeting happening today. So I might have more details In the next in the next week or two So I think that's um, that's it for me unless anyone has any other questions Council do we have a question for pandas? I'm sorry really quick. It is it is cadence. I'm sorry cadence That's okay. I got three hours of sleep last night. I was just about saying we can blame that on sleep deprivation. No problem so We have um, I have a couple questions for you these You you mentioned that the outdoor seating has been pretty successful. Um, are you in that you were looking to um You made some statement like we should the council be expecting information or requests coming from the dao to Do this in the future in non-covid times Um, I I think we're still waiting for details from city staff around The permanent park lip program. I think that's in the works that that is what we are imagining the future to be um the The ultimate goal that came forward on the 500 Block meeting is that ultimately they do want the street to reopen Um, but they they don't want that to happen until restaurants really have the capacity to operate a little more normally again So at this point, I I don't think they're looking for uh, regular closures. That's not been the general Response from business owners. I will say that, you know, most of the community members really do like it So unless there's a big shift from the mentality of the business owners, I don't think that that's something they'll be Looking for post-covid Okay, well, thanks for that. Um any members of the public wishing to speak on this item There are no raised hands at this time Okay, great. All right, thanks cadence. Um, we'll move on to the public safety update with tim barrett the san rosa police department Good morning council. Good morning everybody We are currently focused on the underpasses. We now have a timeline. We'll be posting next week And clearing the camps the following week We've been addressing problems led to the underpasses including several arrests over last week and towing problem vehicles We've been working with Catholic Charities to help them enforce their good neighbor policies when appropriate We've been communicating with residents and business owners and are aware of the camp's impacts on in the frustration especially from the hotels Uh streets plus staff Staff from parking and some business owners have helped us identify a couple specific homeless people that are causing issues downtown One of those individuals recently arrested and has not returned downtown We have been working with hosts But the individuals are resistant to housing The principal greenway has remained clear under one on one but there are still people camping near the fish and cannery We are in contact with the representative from the cannery and we'll continue to coordinate clean up and property with them We are hopeful that the new private security in the railroad square district will help curb some vandalism that they're experiencing And we'll continue to coordinate with those businesses and the railroad square district That's all we have right now Okay, thanks. Any members of council have any questions? I do have a quick question chair. Tavis. Thank you very much. I'm curious about the vandalism I don't remember vandalism being That much of an issue in the past at least it hasn't been highlighted and now and it's seems to be a little more prevalent I'm curious if you can articulate for me the nature of the vandalism that's happening I can't I wouldn't imagine that it's that's graffiti. What what what's happening beyond I did hear windows breaking Which of course is vandalism. Is there are there other types of vandalism that seem prevalent right now? It is the windows breaking in the rebel square area and it's also it is spray painting. It's not specifically Graffiti is just more spray painting for the sake of spray painting things. And so that's currently what we're experiencing It's primarily in the rebel square area Okay, thank you. It was just a curiosity because I like like I said, I had not heard that that was Much of an issue in fact breaking of glass also. I don't remember being a an issue Of late and then it may have been maybe was unreported Etc. But I was Is disturbing. I didn't realize that that was that that had become quite as as commonplace as it is today I think it's been going on unreported for quite some time and as we've developed more relationship with the businesses and the hotels Around rebel square. We're getting more and more information and trying to be more proactive and addressing it Yeah, good point. Thank you very much Any questions victoria are you good? Okay, I have one question for you. Um, you know, you mentioned that a lot of the Homeless individuals that you're working with in downtown are are resistant to host. Can you expand upon the reasons why? Uh, obviously there's there's multiple reasons there are multiple factors that make them resistant Uh, one of the specific reasons, um, is some people don't like the shelter options that we currently have available And so they're wanting more kind of like the family camp that we used to have they want That kind of tent type shelter Not everyone loves sam jones hall as as an option and then other issues obviously that impact our mental health issues and and trying to get them into the pipeline for mental health is difficult We can get them in there, but that's a very overburdened Program and so some of them fall through the cracks and then Some a certain percentage of the transit population have been transient so long that they prefer the lifestyle They just continue to refuse services regardless of what those services look like or how many times we contact them So all we can do is just continue to try to off those services and hopefully between Outreach and enforcement get them into services eventually Great. No, I appreciate you uh, you saying that because I think when we talk about trying to help the downtown Obviously the city's hands are tied greatly due to the uh, injunction from the ninth circuit So, you know, sometimes we now have to probably have conversations about What is the right type of shelter? To help incentivize people to utilize it more which has the the tangential benefit to the downtown businesses of helping the the issue overall so Thank you sergeant barrett and congratulations. I heard you recently promoted So really happy for you and look forward to working with you. I was thank you much and congratulations on your new baby Thank you, sir. Um, let's move on to item uh, 3.4 the maintenance of courthouse square update. We've got uh, mr finigan pardon chair tidbits While we don't have any hands raised. I just wanted to acknowledge that that the public has had the opportunity to speak Absolutely. Thank you for the help Appreciate it. So we have no hands. We're good to move on. Yes. Okay. All right. Um Let's hear item 3.4 Okay, morning, uh, my apologies tim finigan, uh, had a prior reading scheduled. So my name is germy gundy I'm direct deputy director of transportation public works for the field services division and I'll be providing the update for Our park maintenance team on the downtown area So the rehabilitation as many of you may have already noticed Of the turf in the courthouse square began about two weeks ago. So we fenced that area off and Did some weed removal and reseeding of the turf there There's still some touch up work that needs to be done to fill in some of the low spots And then we'll also be following up with some application of a organic fertilizer to address the remaining broadleaf Weeds throughout that area We do anticipate the reopening of that area within the next two weeks Due to the the nice warm weather That we've been having It appears that the project has been pretty successful So we are also currently working On performant weed abatement in the tree wells and the planners throughout the courthouse square area and also along 4th street We've been focusing a lot of efforts As many of you seen and discussed along the prince memorial greenway last month our team Removed approximately 80 cubic yards of debris along the pathways there Which included some of the homeless encampment there We also spent additional 250 hours of labor removing graffiti and And just dirt and grime and other debris along the pathway And then our city's electrical division has been working on making repairs to the To the lighting pretty much all the lighting along the greenway The a lot of damage has been caused due to the vandalism along that stretch so They were able to get a lot of the lights back on and they're in the process of ordering replacement bulbs for a lot of those units Additional vandalism along the greenway Includes damage to a lot of the decorative rock facing Along the pathways and the tile work some of the decorative tile work And then also we've experienced several fires in some of our storm drain outfall pipes that outfall into the creek there folks are shoving Christmas trees and other debris Up in those pipes and lighting on fire creating some extensive damage to the plastic pipe Throughout that area We're also researching the use of a small sidewalk sweeper We don't currently own a unit like this, but we've demoed a couple different units and feel that This compact type of a sweeper will allow us to perform regular maintenance and cleaning of just the light grime and other debris along the greenway and other pathways that the city maintains throughout the Throughout our jurisdiction so We're really happy with the demos that we've seen it would be an additional need that we'll we'll end up going to council to request And we are working on trying to identify a funding source for that And then now with the warmer weather We're also working on mowing the grass along the planter strips at the Teeba Ho Park and and some of the areas throughout the greenway You see the capital improvement project going on in courthouse square to install the the ballers at the north and south end of the square and that When I understand that work is going well. I look at completion date mid to late april So over the next two weeks our team will also be scheduled and work with the streets plus team to clean and paint the garbage cans And there's also some damage to the doors that will also need to be replaced We also receive a request to replace some of the damaged benches throughout the courthouse square And we're currently researching the different types and costs and availability of some of those benches We're also evaluating identifying a funding source for some additional tree work that's needed in the depot park in Riverwood Square And we're we're also trying to evaluate the possibility of doing that working house But given our current staffing levels and the workload that may be challenging However, I'm happy to announce that we are currently recruiting for Two parks groundskeeper positions And also maintenance worker positions. So that may help to move that work along And that concludes my update. I have to answer any questions Here you may have Looks like councilmember slayer has one Thank you and Thanks, tam I I have a couple of questions. Um, one is The what the what the status might be if any, um, if there is a continuing conversation on cctv installation on the Prince Memorial Greenway For security, I'm not sure if that's even something that that is affordable or that has been considered. I I really, um cringe a little bit at at the at the Uh, the need for a use of that kind of of observation, but It's still I have a feeling that it would that the installation of that kind of equipment might Pale in comparison to the amount of money we spend in repairing The the elements that are being destroyed or damaged by Whomever whether it be homeless or other other individuals that feel that they are Hidden and give them the opportunity to do damage The other question I have has to do with the lawn area in in courthouse square And again, I kind of shy away from the concept of synthetic turf, but synthetic turf has come a long way and I wonder if there is a environmentally Sensitive and texturally sensitive Replacement to the lawn which every time there is a major event needs to be fenced off and repaired If I'm not even sure of what I'm not sure to what degree Or how much cost there is in that in the in the reparation, but it seems to be a constant issue With that we have created by putting natural turf in that In that footprint of the old courthouse So I'm curious if there's if there has been or will be conversation about synthetic turf in that area Oh, thank you for that question. So yeah, I'll go ahead and start with the turf So the current system that was installed During the reunification of the square Has like rigged type pattern of drainage feature underneath that turf It has not been very successful as you mentioned and does require a lot of maintenance You know after large events there are ongoing discussions of a future Complete rehabilitation project throughout the square there and involved in that turf and we are looking at other methods as far as subsurface drainage and types of material that can be used in addition to artificial Turf that's available out there. So yes, those those answer your question those discussions continue to happen We are not at the point of identifying a final solution for that But we are aware of it in trying to make some changes Okay, I appreciate that. I mean it's like Given the amount of time and energy that is spent on it such a it's a relatively small part of the entire Site so it concerns me that it is that it is sucking some of the Revenue some of the resources that could be used in other parts of the of the park or the the the square the plaza And so that's the way I bring it up. I mean it concerns me that it's ongoing and it sounds like you guys are tackling those areas that that That need that kind of attention and analysis. So I appreciate that. Thank you Yes, you're welcome. And then as far as the The camera installation of the cctv Throughout the principal room pre-lay from maintenance standpoint. I do know that discussions are happening with it department and other another department What can be installed out there if it's feasible if it's something that's you know within within Our meaning as far as the budget. So I do know those discussions continue Obviously, it can be somewhat challenging You mentioned to install cameras that folks know over there. A lot of down vandalism concerns are them, you know You know painting over the lenses and where to install those So I know we have got a couple field visits out there and walk the area to see if there were Any locations that could be identified install those Pipes again, but you know that those discussions continue with various departments throughout the city But I'm not sure that exclusion has been made yet. Okay. Thank you Any other questions from council It's okay seeing none. Um, Jeremy. I did just want to say thank you Uh to your team that is part of the debris cleanup team. I know that that's probably a difficult You know, but I I noticed that it's already really helping beautify the city and um, so my my gratitude to all of them um Now do we have any members of the public wishing to speak on this item? We do we have mr. Paul Schwartz um And mr. Schwartz if you would um confirm that you are able to we can hear your audio and that you are able to see The timer Yes, thank you. Can you hear me? Yes, thank you. Good morning and morning everyone. I had just had a couple questions and comments One is john you took my you took my wind sales away when you talked about the turf versus the grass or you know synthetic versus regular turf I kind of wondered about that for years as as the periodic You know repair jobs are required and maybe we should look at having uh having the um The folks that provided the underground irrigation systems You know pay for the cost of replacing all of that with That's something synthetic since apparently it's not working too well, but I'm somewhat being somewhat facetious But but maybe not I don't know um cadence mentioned something about the pg&e in the downtown area I I didn't understand what she was referring to can somebody Just quickly answer that question. What was she talking about in terms of negotiating or working with pg&e? You recall What that was in regards to if not that's fine. I'll call her um And then and then a couple of people I you know, I work downtown and Uh lots of friends work downtown and so on and I frequently hear the comment Why don't we have some trees in the center of the? You know square grass area for shade I don't know if that's something that's under consideration as you look at the At the at the grass and replacement of the grass or how we've been to maintain the grass more effectively But there's you know, obviously a big open area with with no shade and needless to say there are trees around the perimeter But maybe years before those trees provide shade in the in the center of the square So I just thought I'd throw that out because it's On a bright sunny day. It's it's it's you know, it's nice to have a little shade there If if we could somehow figure out a way to do that um And then I don't know if this is the appropriate place to ask this question, but in the economic development subcommittee um discussions There have been discussions about or there was an item Regarding the economic resiliency activities and there was a a list of projects and one of them was the rfp Slash q for downtown city properties. I have not been able to find that anywhere I guess I could call raissa, but does anyone know if that List of sites or properties is somewhere available Uh, and maybe I just need to get with staff on that I'm sorry, I may be the inappropriate place to ask that question, but it seems like it's a pretty important item in relative to you know How these sites that the city may be disposing of Are you know are pursued by private parties Thank you Thank you, mr. Schwartz Any other public comments Um, just one moment Chair tibbetz, uh, if I may we can have cadence address the uh question the inquiry regarding pgne Yeah, thank you, uh, rafael. I was actually going to wait until all public comment was finished And I'll just make a comment for mr. Schwartz But mr. Schwartz the brown act precludes us from engaging in a back and forth conversation question and answering with you Um, but if council members do choose to ask your your question when when it comes up we can do that and we will But let's get through public comment. Uh first if that's all right Chair tibbetz, there are no additional hands raised at this time Okay, great. And then um as rafael indicated cadence is still with us If she had any helpful information that addresses mr. Schwartz's question that would be great Sure That that comment was in relation to looking into the feasibility of having a seasonal ice rink on courthouse square So it's not To Run a a chiller that would keep an ice rink cold. So that's that's what that was in relation to I'm happy to answer more In another time you cut out briefly but but i'm guessing the gist is to run a chiller You require a lot of electricity and you need to have a higher amperage or electrical flow. So you're going to be upgrading some infrastructure. Is that Safe to say. Yeah, we're looking into the feasibility and the cost of upgrading that infrastructure to in order to be able to have three phase power in the square Awesome. Thanks cadence. Um, and then uh rafael, I don't know if you have any information or anybody on staff does about the rfp slash q on disposition of city assets I do not but I could definitely have a discussion with race and then we can follow up with paul Okay, thanks so much. Um already. So I think we've done public comment. Um, I'm not seeing any further questions or comments from council Let's move on to item 3.5 permitted events And public art and we have tara thompson Hi, thank you. Good morning chair tidbits and council members. Um, I have a brief update on events as well as public art I'll start with events. Um, as you know, um, we still are operating in a Uh state of very high restrictions on gatherings, especially public large gatherings And so all of our special event permits and many of our other permit types are still suspended Until the county or state lifts those restrictions on such events or provides public guidance on public gatherings right now the guidance is limited to private gatherings And the state's newest guidance, which was effective starting today does address live performances and events with fixed seating The guidance allows outdoor seated live events and performances such as in ball parks or stadiums and events with Fixed seating and that can have significantly reduced capacity with reserved Tickets only This guidance does not apply to the most of the types of events that we permit here in san rosa through a special event permit Given the nature of our public spaces such as courthouse square So for general admission venues and events where The central activity allows patrons to move around a shared space. Unfortunately, the guidance does not apply here. So For special event permits, we are starting to inform event organizers to The fact that and to ensure proper review and planning The state and or local restrictions and guidelines allowing the proposed event would need to be in place at least 90 days prior to the proposed event So that city staff and other agencies have the time to review Those proposals those plans and that we would have time to process the application That's for a large event such as a marathon We we have a kind of a flexibility with the smaller events for those somewhere between 30 and 60 days to process but we are really trying to get the message out as you know our Our spot in the tier system is looking better and the spring weather is beautiful. We're getting more increase for event Event organizers wanting to know how and when they can bring their events back And so the message we're crafting now to make sure everyone is aware Is that kind of expectation that we we would need to know that we can permit the event given the state restrictions and state and county guidelines and restrictions And then have enough time to to safely process review plans and approve a permit So, um, so that that's the update for events. Um, and I I'll just move on to arts And then answer questions if that's okay So for the art program we have A brief update on imagine art in courthouse square the selected design by blessing hancock includes text if you recall from her design And that text will be collected through an engagement process, which is going to be starting later this month So we're starting to work with her on an outreach campaign connections with local organizations schools Neighborhood groups community groups business organizations so that we are doing an appropriate type of outreach Given, you know our covet situation, but having various methods for people to interact with Kind of answering some prompts to collect some words that will then end up on the final piece For our conservation and maintenance we have ongoing projects most recently just this week the guardian of the creek also known as the fish sculpture in prince gateway park was cleaned up And Recently they've also our conservators have worked on Hangover too in juliard park the large steel piece on san roz avenue As well as some other pieces at city hall The national arts program I mentioned at our meeting last month is online this year and it will be online The the online exhibit will still be available through the end of april at our inside out there dot com website And a new program which was launched last month musician relief grants Has an application deadline of april 11th. So there's still time The purpose of the program is to support working performing musicians in the san roz arts community by providing a grant That will aid the musician to continue working through this time of economic hardship The funding is aimed towards musicians who have lost income Due to the inability to perform live The funding comes from the live at juliard concert series, which was not able to occur last year and most likely This year as well And finally for the fifth street parking garage the call for artists was closed just this monday At the selection process is expected to be completed over the summer with some engagement opportunities in june for the community And then the final artwork on that garage will most likely be installed early next year february So with that I will answer any questions Thanks tarot any questions from council? and for me Okay, seeing none. We'll move on to public comment for item 3.5 There are no public comments at this time Okay, um, thanks tar. I look forward to seeing that art piece on the fifth street garage Let's move on to item 3.6 the parking program. We have an update with kim nato Good morning council members. Um, I'll try to keep this quick First thing I wanted to talk about was the garage repair project, which is ongoing It's on on Pace to be completed as expected Um at the end of the summer and there have been minimal impacts to parkers So that is going smoothly We've completed installing multi space meters and all new multi space meters and all of the surface slots that now use pay by plate technology So you don't have to go back to the your car with a with a receipt You can enter your license plate at the machine and you're done So that's gone smoothly And then lastly, I wanted to talk about the garage fee waivers that cadence had brought up and that we've I've been in contact with her about So the fee waivers that the council approved in the garages include the first hour free and all the garages weekends are free And um evenings are free in the garages currently and that is set to expire when the county reaches the yellow tier or june 30th of of this year whichever comes first and it's Starting to look like the yellow tier is going to arrive perhaps sooner than we had anticipated as things are looking Promising on the coven front So I am preparing to bring an item to council as as soon as possible to recommend that the council extend the fee waivers Through june 30th regardless of when we hit the yellow tier In the event that the yellow tier comes sooner And then we are exploring The possibility of using american cares plan act funds To make the parking district whole for continuing these fee waivers beyond june 30th of this year, which is Of interest to the merchants So that would be a council decision to decide if it well first it has to be determined if the parking fund Is an eligible use of the american cares plan funds which At least a preliminary review suggest that it may be and then if if that if the backfilling of parking lost parking revenue qualifies then it would go to council to Approve the use of the funds for that purpose. So that that is something that you can expect to see coming We're looking at a deficit in this fiscal year of about 1.3 million to the parking fund And if we were to continue these waivers through the next fiscal year I estimate Revenue loss of somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 to 750 thousand dollars It really depends on how strong the recovery is how much the the revenue reduction would be But we are certainly seeing an increase in parking activity now Between the the beautiful weather the moving to the orange Tier red red tier. I guess we're in the red tier We're definitely seeing an uptick in parking activity, which is promising. I mean, it's good to see that people are anxious to get back out So that's what I have for you and I'm happy to answer any questions Thank you. Many questions from members of the council Kim I did have a question and if you don't know it offhand, I don't expect you to no worries and that is Does does the parking department have any reserves to help cover that deficit? Yes, we do We're expecting our reserves to be 7 million at the end of this fiscal year and You know next year Depending we may break even or or we may have to draw down on reserves again. It really Well, of course, it depends on if we extend these fee waivers if there is a replacement funding source for the fee waivers Um, but we do have reserves to cover us for now Okay, great. Thank you Any members of the public wishing to speak on item 3.6? Yes, we do have a mr. Jeff blackman Mr. Blackman, I am unmuting you and if you could verify that we're able to hear you and that you are able to see the timer Please thank you Yes, I can see thank you This is Jeff blackman with bedford lodging. I'm the owner of the ac hotel by marriott in railroad square I apologize. I got caught on another call and didn't dial in in time for the section 3.1 But it's tangentially related to parking under the 101 where there's currently A homeless encampment, so I just wanted to use this short period of time to to voice my concerns for that activity for the reduction in parking Under the 101 and for the safety of my guests It's been an extremely difficult year in the hospitality business Uh, and we've made a very large investment in downtown santa rosa And business is starting to come back. In fact, we ran 86 occupancy last saturday night But 50 of those guests Uh, either called me directly to complain Or filed a complaint with marriott corporate that they didn't feel safe In and around the hotel I have not gotten in my 25 year career calls directly from marriott Of which we're a franchise organization And rely on marriott for for the livelihood of our business I have not gotten a direct call from marriott citing safety concerns for guests So I just wanted to bring this to the council's attention And know that there are other dialogues going on Both within, you know, chris wilson and the and the railroad square association And and city staff, but I can't emphasize enough How much of a challenge it is To make an investment in the city And actually have people start to come to visit This wonderful city And they are not coming back If the conditions can Continue to be As dangerous as they are and and and Aside from that, you know, we've got we've got parking challenges under the 101 as a result. So I'll yield my time. Thank you Thank you, mr. Blackman There are no additional hands raised at this time Okay, thanks any final comments from council Seeing none, I think at this point we're adjourned Thank you, everyone. Thanks


So I don't have my co-presenter here, Sudeen Dharamurthy. So unfortunately he couldn't travel. So I'll start myself. My name is Anand Palaniswamy. So I manage a cloud networking group for both eBay and PayPal. So that includes SDN, Neutron, LBS and DNS. So for both these companies. So I just want to go over, of course, you know this very well about our company. So how critical it is when you talk about networks and then virtual networks or the physical networks, because the serious business we are talking about is not just, you know, IT infrastructure we are talking about. And this is our cloud today. And this is being shared in multiple presentations maybe already. And just want to go over before we get into what we are talking about in terms of cloud networking and SDN. So currently, you know, I'm talking about only this open stack cloud. Of course, you know, our infrastructure is much more bigger than what we are talking about here. It's a journey to migrate towards this. So currently we have around 8,500 hypervisors and, of course, you know, 70,000 VMs and a lot of, you know, block storages and thousands of, thousands of internal cloud users. And mid-2015 it will be around 10,000 hypervisors. So if you look at the deployment architecture itself, so I want to go through, you know, in terms of, you know, how we deployed it and then I want to drill down visually actually how we have deployed specifically SDN where it fits in so that it will give you a perspective of where things are and then how, you know, we are moving forward in terms of scaling it out. So if you look at, you know, the deployment itself, right, so we have multiple regions in the geographical regions. And every region has, you know, multiple availability zones. And then every availability zone internally we deploy, you know, open stack. Of course, you know, if you look at the region itself, you know, we tie all of these regions together using a global keystone. So if you look at it as a single cloud, but every region is being independently orchestrated. Even if something happens to open stack in one particular region or availability zone, we don't impact the business. Even that particular region or availability zone goes down.  But we architect it in a way, it perfectly fits. Okay, even if you want to do some maintenance in the core, we take out only that particular availability zone for, you know, maintenance. And of course, we have redundancy everywhere in the switches and routers and cores and wherever, but sometimes actually you might, you know, get into, you know, some critical infrastructure upgrade, then we need to take out some availability zone of the traffic. If you look at, actually, we kept all those things in mind before we decide to go and deploy cloud in the production, right. It's not that actually we, you know, just deploy somewhere and then it didn't work. And then after that, actually, we take a huge hit and it impacts the business. That's more critical than not deploying open stack, right. And if you look at, actually, every availability zone is a fall domain, right. It's a very key in the design. So earlier days, when you talk about an application, hey, my application needs to have this particular availability, but I need to distribute across, you know, multiple fall domains within the racks, actually. Okay, I cannot have my VM under this particular half rack or maybe quarter rack or whatever. I need to distribute everywhere. No. Your application needs to scale across availability zones. Even the availability zone goes down, as I mentioned, it should not take any impact to the business. So, and you might, you know, very well end up in the same half rack if you don't have enough capacity in other places. What's the flavor that you are looking from the Nova? And you have to, you know, account for all of that. You cannot guarantee, okay, my application will be always being in multiple racks and then, you know, multiple switches and multiple fall domains in that layer, not at the rack level. It's all over, you know, availability zone. And when I talk about availability zone, it's thousands of hypervisors, right? So, availability zone maps to, you know, more than one physical network bubbles. That's key as well. So basically, you know, when we design, you know, bubbles, sometimes what happens is based on your network infrastructure gear that you bought it in the past, you might not be able to fit your availability zone scale into a single bubble. There will be more than one bubble, but all these bubbles are tied together in a single availability zone, right? So what does that mean?  So that's very key, but the newer availability zones that we are deploying, we might end up, you know, going into the one bubble to one availability zone, but that has, you know, a lot of, you know, implications into the existing data centers, how you deploy, right? So, and then to scale it out with an availability zone, we have multiple NOVA cells.  It is not easy to manage with a single cell. We have to get into multiple cells. I'm going to be talk about, talk more about that in the next slides. Sure. So I'm double-clicking on the single availability zone, right? We went into the region, and then from the region, we went into the availability zone, and then, of course, everyone knows how to deploy the cells. And then every cell, actually, I'm talking about the racks put in within the cell, right?  When you come from the Internet, of course, you know, you will hit our, you know, one of the firewalls and then edge routers, and after that, actually, I'm talking about only within the aggregation where cloud meets, okay? The public traffic, or maybe internal traffic also, right? Your cloud starts from there, and I'll talk about, actually, first of all, you know, when I talk about SDN, a lot of people for only overlay is SDN. Some people, you know, they don't consider this as SDN. And for me, actually, SDN is an API to operate your network infrastructure. It could be overlay, it could be underlay, or maybe you are touching core, or access layer, or aggregation layer. And of course, Neutron doesn't have all those APIs, and we might, we need to build all those APIs when you are talking about Neutron as a network as a service, right? So if you talk about aggregation layer, it's a three-tier architecture here, and then our access layer is nothing but, you know, your top-of-rack switch, and these are all the racks, actually.   It is also attached to the aggregation layer itself, but it is also a top-of-rack switch, and SDN gateways, load balancers, and firewalls, they are all sitting there. But the rest of the infrastructure and everything is identical, right?  We, you know, they are not cattles actually, right? They are puppies. You need to special, you know, special rack. And what happens actually if you don't have enough space and power to add more and more, you know, load balancers and firewalls in there. So that's where actually things are getting really, really interesting. You know, why can't we move firewalls and then, you know, the load balancers as virtual instances within the computer racks itself, right? And have only maybe the gateways and stuff like that in a specialized rack. And of course it's based on the throughput that you want to get out of your each and individual, the advanced services that you have in your data center, and that depends actually whether you can move it or not. And that is always a question, okay, what will happen actually, you know, you can scale out your racks, but you can't fit, you know, all of our, you know, advanced services from layer 4 to layer 7. There is no enough space and power, right? Of course you can't extend data center within a day, right? So what happens for that? So if you look at actually this is what happens inside an ASE. This is our availability zone. And here if you talk about within availability zone, of course now we have the entire OpenStack deployment solution, right? Your Keystone, NOVA, NOVA cells, and then Sinder, you know, object storage, everything lives in within particular availability zone, right? And then availability zone, of course it's tied to a region, right? And then we have some regional services, okay? And then regional services, you know, sits in the global Keystone, the target state across, you know, all over our regions in multiple geographical regions, right? So on top of that actually, you know, when we talk about, you know, SDN the important concept that we introduce to meet our business needs is virtual private cloud. Of course, you know, some of the public cloud providers already have an API to create, you know, virtual private cloud and OpenStack doesn't have APIs to do that yet, but we have a business need to do that and we introduce all this, you know, concepts within our, you know, our own patching with what we have at internal. Of course, you know, we have an API also for that in, you know, multiple components that needs to be used in our solution. So, VPC, if you talk about virtual private cloud and then it introduce, it compresses of, you know, multiple resources that you group together, okay? A business unit or maybe a business function within an enterprise, okay? You have specific requirement where I cannot share the traffic between other, you know, business functions. You want self-contained in terms of networking, in terms of storage, in terms of compute, right? How do you isolate them? And of course, you know, you don't want to put firewalls everywhere, that creates an island for you, right? And if you want to move away from that, actually you have to rewire your, you know, infrastructure, right?  So that's where actually, you know, I'm sure actually all of you know about SDN actually, what it solves and, you know, here actually very important for us, the VPC is very dynamic where the capacity needs to move from one business to other business. Sometimes actually, you know, business, what happens is, okay, you buy $100 million worth of, you know, gear and the business shrinks down or whatever or maybe it expands, you have to expand dynamically based on your business growth, right? That's where actually, when I talk about actually, you know, the agility is very important for the business and scaling the infrastructure network is very key for that, right? So VPC is a security zone. As I said, actually it's a self-contained and it has its own security rules and within the security zone actually every VPC is being firewalled up, of course, right?  There are, you know, multiple policies are enforced around VPC. But within VPC, you can still use fine-grained using security groups, okay? Within VPC you have multiple applications and then you want to set up some ports and then open some ports. You want to follow certain protocols so you can do all sorts of things within using, of course, you know, OpenStack security groups itself, right? And again, you know, to introduce the VPC, you know, we have to make changes to Keystone, right? So basically, you know, when I talk about Keystone itself, right, VPC will have multiple projects and there is an admin project. He owns all these resources. Underneath we have a lot of, you know, other tenants. They are inheriting all these resources capabilities. For example, you know, if there is a DNS zone, only the VPC says, okay, say suppose it's a valid, okay, mobile valid, right? It's a person of the application and it could be, and it might be living within one particular, you know, virtual private cloud and they all share the same DNS zone. But, of course, we want to have control to every application owner to manage that particular zone. So it will be managed only the tenant, admin tenant in that case. So we have to make changes to that.   Of course, I'm going to be talking about some of the things that we face later.   And if you want to add, actually you add the network and automatically, you know, still being, you are within that virtual routing domain itself, right? And again, you know, what I'm going to be talking about is next, actually, we need to, you know, stretch it across multiple racks, that virtual switch or virtual routing domain. But, okay, if you want to have a slash 16 network for that particular VPC, can you have a virtual router that could handle that many, you know, that much traffic, right? What are the scaling limits? That's what we are going to be talking about. But what is the restriction that you have if you don't have that? That's what, in the next slides, we are, I'll talk more about it, right? Sure. Yes. You know, network design itself, right? So, as I mentioned, right? Okay.  Today, actually, we are running both, Overlay, as well as Bridge Network.  They are not latency sensitive.   Say, suppose, again, when you are talking about Slash 18, then you cannot have this, because you have to go out and then come back if you, you know, want to go to the next network, right? And what will happen in that case is actually, you know, you have to hit the headway, and then, you know, it is then carefully kept, and then you have other switches and routers. So basically, to introduce the latency. So those cases, we don't use Overlays. So basically, we go directly Bridge, okay? And also, the security group, actually, you know, there are some limitations, actually, we had, actually, when you introduce more and more security groups in the OVS layer, you know, how many flows that got introduced extra, and then what was the bottleneck that we had. I'm going to be talking about more and more about that as well. And also, you know, what will be the issues if you don't select 100% separation between your SDN controllers and your data path. Okay? If you do some maintenance, if you get an outage of, you know, just upgrading the controllers, if it affects your data path, what will happen, right? So, and we have some challenges as well, I will talk about that as well. And then, what we want to do in future, okay, how we are going to be somehow solving some of our problems. Of course, they are all in the talks, and then we are going to be picking one of the solutions that we are discussing seriously internally, right? So, this is what actually I talked about, you know, little bit about in the previous slide where what is the implications on the network design itself, what it introduces if your, you know, logical router doesn't scale beyond a certain point.  We are, we came down to, you know, virtual networking now, right? And the VMs are nothing but your bad model servers. If you map your physical infrastructure into this, that's how it looks like, right? But think about actually your logical router today. You bought it for so much of, you know, circuit capacity, right? Now, you want to build another one because the capacity is not enough, and you will be building multiple of that. So, what else you need to buy to change that? Okay, your aggregation layer below that, so that's exactly the same challenge you are having it here, right? The logical router for us is a slash-empty network, right? And the logical switch is, of course, slash-24 because of, you know, some of the, you know, port limitations that we have in our SDN solution. They are all slash-21s today, right? So, if you are running, you know, slash-24, and then every logical switch is slash-24 here, they are all connected to the logical router, right? Of course, they are running un-overly. If you want to go out and then come back, you are getting the headway, right? For example, you know, logical router to logical router, of course, there will be latency, right?  That's one of the reasons, actually, we don't run, you know, the latency-sensitive application into the overlay yet. But the ultimate goal is going to run everything un-overlay, right? So, that is going to solve our capacity problem that I touched upon before even stuck in the past or second slide, and... So, if you look at, you know, other one, the second router, if you get in there, actually, you have to, that's the extra half. So, networking, actually, every extra half actually takes the extra latency, right? And, let me talk about the gateway bottleneck itself. So, what will happen here in this particular case, right? You are running Hadoop, okay? There are a lot of east-west traffic, okay? You are a tenant, you have outside, actually, 500 node cluster, you are running in the cloud, right? And, you don't have enough capacity within that particular logical router in terms of, you know, number of VMs. Actually, if you're talking about Slash-20, you, of course, you know, within the Slash-20, you cannot pre-allocate to a particular tenant, and then, later on, you know, then the university will have the capacity. If you are allocating, pre-allocating Slash-20 for a particular tenant, and it's defeating the purpose of the cloud because you are reserving the capacity for someone. Now, if you look at the orange one, the red VMs, you know, you have two VMs in, you know, the logical switch, too, and then you have another one in one, and then you have one more VM across, you know, one more logical router. So, it is introducing extra latency.   So, what happens, as I said earlier, if you don't have the capacity, you have to go somewhere else. So, this is the reality that we are living in today, where, you know, the big data use cases like Hadoop and H2Os and, you know, a lot of, you know, chatty applications that we have, and we run all of them on bridge today. So, security group, okay, this is an interesting, you know, piece that we keep up to very, very hardly after, maybe I would say two, three days, actually, we don't know actually, you know, why the hell there are so many flows running in high processors, right? So, what happened was, you know, there are, you know, self-replexive roles that users get introduced. In our cloud, what happens, actually by default, okay, every tenant lives in a particular VPC, they are all being firewalled up from other security zones. They're okay to run within that particular zone without shutting down some of the ports or some of the protocols. Sometimes what happens is that there are applications, they want to shut down some specific ports, they want to run only on specific ports.  It introduces more and more flows because you cannot summarize all of that, right? Then your controller, SDN controller started managing so many flows, millions of millions of flows and it introduces a lot of, you know, load on your SDN controller. And if your SDN controller is not capable of handling those many, then you'll be in trouble. So, what we have done for this, actually, you know, and it is, this is one of the reasons, actually, most of the time what happens is actually, you know, it is not able to use the mega-flow because your flow table, you cannot summarize. Because say, suppose when I say, you know, mega-flows, I hope when everyone knows what mega-flows does, it's not actually just a touch on that. See, you have, you're an application, right? Okay, this is a security domain where all these flows can talk each other, right? All these flows, actually there will be only one flow. So, summarize all of that and put it into single flow. But if everyone has a different security group, you need to run a separate flow path for that, for every security rule that you have, right? And it introduced the number of flows are increasing. It introduces more and more memory footprint in your controllers again because your table size increases, right? To simplify that, what we have done is actually, you know, we took some of the patches in the community where, you know, whenever you are the same tenant or maybe someone else, you know, submitting the same rule and again and instead of, you know, exploding them, you summarize all of that, you give that to your SDN controller. So that, because ideally the SDN controllers should do this job because they should summarize internally and then it needs to push those, you know, summarized flows, summarize security groups to the hypervisors. But here, actually, we took the job and then put it into, you know, the plugin, Newton plugin, right? So that solved this particular problem. But still, you know, somebody creates it, you know, different rules that if not summarized, then you will run into the same problem and then again. So this is another, you know, pain that we went through before there is no separation between SDN control controller and data separation. So what happened was, okay, as I said, right, the millions of millions of flows, that state is getting managed, you know, your SDN controllers, right? And they are getting pushed into the hypervisors. Whenever you are creating VMs here and then across the network you are creating somewhere else, then you have to, you know, plumb this and controller, you know, manages the state where this particular hypervisor lands and then where the other point, other end of the tunnel. So what happens is in this case, now, all these things are getting managed within controller and when you upgrade the controllers, that's where the, you know, fun starts. Where what have, where, you know, you are restarting your controller now because in as part of the upgrades and it needs to recalculate all these flows and it has to send the newer version of the flows to the hypervisors. Then to think about a scenario where you are connecting from VM A to VM B, you are one part of the tunnel calculated and you push to the hypervisor, but the other part of the, you know, tunnel still not being calculated, right? Because you are pushing the partial flow to the hypervisor. If you have a bug or maybe, you know, then you are not talking about only one flow. There are millions of flows like that and if you are pushing, you started pushing only the, you know, the partial flows, then you get into trouble.  And that is one of the problem we faced most of the time during the upgrade and another problem, big problem is, okay, there is no clear separation. Okay, what about actually you lost your control cluster, right? Because the control cluster manages the entire flow state for the network, the entire message manager, right? If it goes down, then your control data plane needs to, you know, stay as it is, even though you are not going to get new flows into the mesh, but the existing flows needs to run as it is, but we didn't have that control percent separation because they periodically, you know, check the flow health and then if it's not there or whatever, you take it out from the flow table and, you know, we ran into a situation where we took a big hit actually when the controller went away to three controllers because multiple controllers we run and, of course, they are running with, you know, 256 RAM or whatever and they all ran hot ups on point because of the security rules that I talked about in the past because there are, you know, multiple, you know, several millions of flow and even if it explores, you know, how you handle that in the data plane, it was not there earlier when we started, you know, three years back. Now, you know, all these features got introduced in our SDN, you know, controllers and the SDN gateways. Now we are at a better state, right? And one more thing is actually, you know, the painful upgrades, okay? So you are upgrading your SDN controller. Now we are talking about several thousand subcontractors, right? So earlier days if you are talking about only upgrading work, you talk about only the physical infrastructure, right? Your physical switches and routers, of course, you know, it's not many, right? Maybe hundreds. Now your switches move to your hypervisor, right?  We have to batch it out and then identify, actually, the impact is very minimal. When I say impact, actually, we are talking about only 10 or 12 seconds or 15 seconds max, the OBS restart. Even we can't afford that, right? And then that introduces, okay, a lot of pressure on the OBS community whenever you reload a kernel, how much time you can afford? Can you make your data pattern as it is and then swap the kernel? Or maybe, you know, within one or two seconds actually, can we restart that? So to avoid that, actually, we have to clearly, you know, identify all the hypervisors and then, you know, batch it in 100s, maximum of 100 to 200 hypervisors in batch and then run them as separate whenever you upgrade the hypervisors because now we are talking about upgrading, you know, thousands of thousands of OBS virtual switches, right? So that introduces a lot of, you know, firefighting and then, you know, sometimes, you know, there is a compatible usage between the hypervisors and then, you know, the OBS version you are running, what kernel version you are running because it's infrastructure grown over the period of time. You don't have, you know, the same version of hypervisors, the same version of OBS kernel running everywhere. There will be incompatible days. How many things that you could test in your lab before you move to the infrastructure, real production, right? So these things were the real, real pain in running, you know, overlay based and OBS based, you know, infrastructure that we are running it currently. It's not about actually, you know, buying, you know, controllers and then make it work for 100 but if you get into the real operating world and they are really, really in a bleeding edge, the upgrade cycle is, you know, very often now.  You are upgrading, I'm talking about in monthly, you know, once or monthly twice, even very often, actually, you know, bi-weekly or whatever. It depends on, you know, how many bugs and then how many, how much maintenance that you need to do on this infrastructure. So for that, actually, you know, you have to have really, really, you know, reliable, you know, software or maybe the orchestration software for during the upgrades. So that, you know, solved us a lot of problem in the later point of time to stop having 10 or 15 hours of upgrade cycle. Now we reduced it to, you know, we could say around, you know, five to six hours we could do it effectively, right? Right. So the gateway scale is yours. Okay. Say, if you talk about the logical router resides on a single gateway, right? Say, suppose, you know, you are running a slash 20, our case is to slash 20 network. We are talking about how many around slash 20, you know, network, those many VMs are being handled by a single gateway. Say, suppose you are pushing gigabytes of gigabytes of data towards a single gateway. Of course, you know, we have active standby. Okay. Something happens to this. Actually, it fails over to the standby within, you know, 10 to 15 seconds or 20 seconds that we have seen. But it introduces lot of, lot of, you know, latency when a lot of people are pushing more and more packets of thousands of thousands of packets per second when you push it, you know, the single gateway doesn't scale. Right. Now you need to distribute across multiple gateways. But we don't have that, you know, capability yet. Because I'm going to be talking about actually how we are going to be solving that using some of the, you know, broadcasting technologies that we are talking about. Right. And also we ran into a situation where, you know, port security, you know, always scans across our infrastructure. They always send R packets. Right.  What happened was actually this keep on increasing over, you know, R packets in a queue. And after some point, actually, you know, it choked the gateway. The entire traffic went down for an hour or so. Right. Now, how you debug that? Because people will scan. Right.   But a simple scan is being handled in a way that is, you know, the number of packets after some time if you cannot process it, just put it into the queue. And then the queue size has to be only very limited, maybe one or two packets.  Right. And of course it's a bug. But that bug, how much impact it introduces in infrastructure. That's what more important point is. Right. And, you know, we have to, you know, introduce some of the solutions for that. Okay.  So until then we have to run the infrastructure because it is taking production traffic. Right. And we introduce some rate limiting scripts actually identify all this, you know, packets and, you know, just rate limit them. Okay. If you are sending, you know, from the same source just stop them actually if it is more than, you know, three or four packets. We introduce those things in the gateway and then that is a stop cap that we introduce. And of course those things are fixed by now. And also we identified who is sending this much of traffic. What is the source? Okay. And we use, we identify the source IPs, source subnets and we block them automatically. So that's the solution actually we identified initially to block it actually when we debug and then rootcast and that become a solution until we get the actual fix done. Right. But identify this actually who is the heavy hitter, who is coming from where because in the infrastructure because of the, you know, single, the gateways running a, sorry, the logical router on running on a single box. So we are all talking about, okay, we are virtualizing, we are moving away from the physical switches and routers, they are all looking good. But if we cannot scale, we are on certain limit on X86 what we are talking about, it is not good. But there is a way you can, you know, scale out or distribute that we don't have today.  And we wanted to distribute that, how we are going to be doing that, there are technologies and you know, that's what we are exploring it today, right. And other issues, okay. Now, okay, we are talking about gateway, single gateway, how, how much latency we tend to use and then what is the impact of running that particular slash tenting networks on a single router and now we are talking about the AC size itself, availability zone size itself because a single control plane of SDN controller manages our availability zone for SDN controller, right. So, it also has, as I said, right, the central control plane, it has to manage millions of, millions of flows and from multiple hypervisor and how many, how many hypervisor that central control plane could cold, right. And then we have a scale limit there too. But if you look at actually, you know, if you want to run my availability zone of only a couple of thousand or two or three thousand hypervisors, no. Because that introduces a lot of cost in terms of you know, building, stamping out your multiple availability zones because every availability zone when I talk about, there are multiple bunch of other infrastructure services that you need to deploy. Money is one thing and then time is one thing, right. Of course, you have automation and all of these things. And also, you know, every availability zone become an island after that. And if you want to tie all of that, you have to go to the core router and then come back, we don't want to do that. So instead, we wanted to scale out more than 2500 that we are talking about today, right. 2500 is our availability zone scale. But we wanted to run at least 10,000, right. To run 10,000, if you have a central control plane, if you cannot handle more than 2500 hypervisors, you need to scale out the SDN controllers itself. Then where do you calculate all these flows?  And of course, you know, there's a journey that we started and we are sticking to that. And of course, you know, we, we, we, I'm sure actually we could get that whole very soon, right. And again, there are a lot of concurrency issues in the neutron that we can enter. Yes, exactly. I want to talk about that actually. So what happens actually in, I know, infrastructure is eventual consistent system. You all get it. But say, suppose if you are creating a hundred ports in neutron, right.   And to keep the cluster, you will be maybe, you know, having a load balancer, virtual VR, whatever, right. You are hitting that. And based on the algorithm, it is going to pick one of your, you know, one of your controllers in that cluster. And how much time it takes for distribute that particular, you know, state, the state change that you made on that controller to distribute to, you know, other nodes in the cluster.  And immediately you go to the node two because of the, you know, round robin stuff, for example, if you're using in our virtual balancer, then it goes and hits other other node. But the state is not there. So what will happen is, okay, it will introduce, it will try to create another port. There will be, you know, duplicate ports for the same IP, right. So we ran into this issues and then, you know, we, we defect so much on this actually, right.  But when the scale started increasing, that's where we have seen most of the issues where people are creating lots of, lots of ports and lots of, lots of, you know, issues.  And future, future, future enhancements, what we want to do is actually, you know, as I said, actually the controller, the gateways are running in a single gateway. Of course, we wanted to advertise all these routes using PGP as some other mechanism. And also, our VPC is sitting within the same data center today.  We are talking about EVPN and stuff like that. So now I think we are very close to the, yeah, of course, you know, there are so many challenges we are firing.  Five, maybe ten minutes or five minutes. Yeah. Yeah. So, when I talk about, you know, all these challenges, right? So we started the journey three and a half years back. And when we started three and a half years back, actually, we had only a few set of technologies available those days and now we are looking at, you know, options how we can, you know, liberate the VX LAN and then, you know, different options. Yeah. Of course, we are doing, we are working on that. Yeah, we are with one of our partner actually. So we are using ICRA controllers. Yeah. So of course, you know, this is a journey. We started three years back and then we are in a much better state and, you know, than earlier. Yeah. Yeah. So the keystone changes actually earlier when we started in Palsam, right? We don't have domains and hierarchical tenants and stuff like that.  So they can all talk each other and that network is being firewalled. They're all belong to the same firewall domain. So we manage that particular information in the keystone metadata. Yeah. Yeah. No. No, we use ICRA. ICRA. Yeah. Any other questions? Okay, sure. So if you guys have any questions or comments and then send them to my email, let's catch up. Yeah. Thank you.