Greetings. I'm Comet Rourke, and this is the Communist Manifesto for Personal Finance, the only program that teaches you how to seize your means of production. On today's episode, we're covering budgets, a concept so simple four-year-olds could understand it, so naturally, Congress doesn't. Now when we think of budgets, we tend to think that they're boring, and that's because they are. But we also think that they're complicated, which is simply not true. So on today's episode, we're going to form a budget that's as simple and easy to run as a nuclear power plant in the Ukraine. But before we can do that, let's look at how a budget works by using the most valuable currency of the Soviet Union, potatoes. Part one, theory. What is a budget? Greetings, Bolshevik Bunny. Greetings, Comet Rourke. What are you doing on this fine day in the workers' paradise? I'm harvesting potatoes. How many do you harvest? Ten a week. Wow, that's an above-average yield under Soviet agriculture. It sure is, comrade. I can't wait to eat them for dinner. Whoa, Bolshevik Bunny, you're not going to eat all those potatoes at once, are you? Why not? Don't you want to store some potatoes for winter? Oh, gee. I guess I forgot about the Russian winter. So did Napoleon and Hitler. Millions of people died. But seriously, Bolshevik Bunny, you need to save some potatoes for when you're not able to work anymore. How do I know how much I should save? It's easy if you use math. How will math help me? By using math. We can find out how many potatoes you need right now, how many you need to survive the winter, and how many you need to start putting away. Okay, well let's figure it out. Five military coups later. Well, Bolshevik Bunny, it looks like you need to be consuming five potatoes a week, but you also need to be putting away two potatoes a week. Oh boy, that means I get three extra potatoes. Yes, Bolshevik Bunny, three luxury potatoes, which is guaranteed under communism. Communism. Everyone gets three potatoes. Gee, comrade work, I guess with my harvest I can eat eight potatoes a week. You certainly can Bolshevik Bunny, or you can save those potatoes so you can have more in the winter. It's up to you how you manage your resources. And that comrade is what a budget is, a plan to manage your resources. Under capitalism, our main resource is our income. Now, what Bolshevik Bunny and I just demonstrated is something called the 50-30-20 budget, which says you should allocate 50% of your income for your necessities, 20% should go into savings, and 30% should go towards luxury.  One. Wages are stagnating while the cost of living increases. Of course, you already know this, otherwise why are you watching a show with the words communist and personal finance in the title? Two.  If I want a luxury, I simply want to buy it and not worry how it fits into my budget. Three. Life happens. Emergencies come up. Sometimes you need money to bribe the secret police. The point is, you need a budget that's flexible for your needs. Now, as a communist, I enjoy inflexible structures with no possibility of change, but I understand not everyone might be on board with communism, which I don't understand.  The point is, if you're an American, you want a budget that's simple and easy to execute. A budget such as... The skim. The ultimate purpose of a budget is to save money for future needs, like, say, a guerrilla war in Southeast Asia. But how do we get there? Well, the best way to use... The skim.  A good baseline is 10 to 20% of your income. Then you put that money into an emergency fund, a 401k, or an IRA.  And that's it. That's the skim budget. Just skim whatever you want to save off the top, spend the rest. Do you need to treat radiation burns from a minor nuclear reactor incident? Do that. Do you think all this talk of personal finance is ridiculous, because the world's going to end in 10 years? Skim 20% of your income off the top, and spend the rest on canned food and firearms. If this sounds simple, that's because it is. But, as we communists well know, whatever seems simple in theory is always a little bit trickier in praxis. So now, let's see how we implement the skim. Part two, praxis, putting the skim to work. The point of the skim budget is to make saving simple and hopefully easy. But I'm guessing for a lot of you, putting 10 to 20% of your income away right off the bat seems pretty impossible. Maybe you've tried putting money away towards retirement, but you have to keep dipping into your savings to pay the bills. Or maybe you're just treading water, don't know how to save, we're never taught how to save. And are too scared to look at your bank account. Believe me, I get it. I've been there.  But you can get out of it. Now I have no reason to lie to you, so I'm not going to say it's easy, but it can be done. So relax, take a deep breath, and do these three things. Number one, start now. Now if you have absolutely nothing in your savings account, I want you to go to your bank or credit unions website and set up an automatic transfer of a dollar a day from your checking to your savings account. Do it right now. I'll wait right here. Five military coups later. Oh, you're back. Did you set up that automatic deposit? You did. Good. Now why did I make you do this? To demonstrate a very simple principle, automation is your friend. Now that's not always the case in this late-stage capitalist hell, but when you're worried about saving money, automation allows us to build up our savings without us having to worry about it every day. Of course, the trick to building up your savings is leaving it alone. And if you're one of those people who constantly has to dip into your savings to pay the bills, then the only option for you is to take a bite of a big old sandwich. Number two, know where your money's going. Now I believe personal finance should be simple, and if practical, easy. This next step is going to be simple, but it's not going to be easy. I want you for the next three months to keep track of every expense and purchase, every single one. So by now you're thinking, boy, this sounds tedious and dull, and that's because it is. Look, it's not easy.   So now you're thinking, seriously, why are you making me do this? Well, it's not to torture you. Believe me, we wouldn't do this to torture you. It's so you can find out how much you spend per month. By keeping track of your finances for three months, we can use math to find the average. We're not doing this to be mean. We're doing this so you can find the mean.  Well, I'll tell you what, if you can put away 20% of your income and pay your credit card bills in full without having to dip into your emergency fund or worse, your retirement, then you're probably in good financial shape.  The first and best weapon you have against the capitalist pigs is knowing where your money is going. Because despite what neoliberal say, late state's capitalism does not want consumers. Late state's capitalism wants marks. No, not that marks. I'm talking about marks, M-A-R-K-S. You know, people who get taken in by a scam. You don't need to be a communist to realize that banks and corporations love to take advantage of people who don't know how to manage their money. And even if you're one of those people who loves capitalism and doesn't trust communism, which I don't understand.  You have to admit that there are some corporations out there who are trying to scam you. Now, am I saying that if you know where your money is going, all your financial troubles will go away? Of course not. But by seeing how much you spend and where your money is going, you can finally... Number three, form a plan. Now, at this point, a lot of financial experts would say, if you stop drinking lattes, you'll retire a millionaire. Which is an asinine statement to make. Because as you keep track of your finances, you're probably going to find that the biggest costs are the things you have the least control over. Like your housing, your car payments, and your medical bills. And you're not alone. As I said earlier, wages are stagnating while the cost of living is going up.  Things always get better under communism. The first hard pill we have to swallow when dealing with our finances is that there are things beyond our power. That's why it's important to take control of the things we can control. Now the best case scenario for keeping track of your finances is you'll find you're paying for things you never use. Like a video streaming service you never watch because there are seven million streaming services out there that none of us asked for. But truthfully, there's probably some stuff we're going to have to cut back on. Now look, I know when somebody says you need to cut back on something, your justified response is to say, why do I have to cut back on things when billionaires waste millions of dollars on things they don't want let alone need. And you're right, that's not fair. I'm not saying life is fair. All I'm saying is you can choose how to deal with life's injustice. You can fight back, come up with a plan and go kick capitalism in the teeth. Or you can sit back on your computer, do nothing to change the system and complain about how unfair life is. It's up to you. You can do what you want with your life. You just can't say you were never told. So once you see where your money is going, you can form a plan on how to save. As I said before, our main objective is to save 10 to 20% of our income. But how do we get there? Well, if you've never seriously built savings before, it's probably not the best idea to start saving 20% right off the bat. The best way to start saving is to use 1% method. No, not that 1%. Look, the first month you're trying to save, just put away 1% of your income. The second month, 2%. The third month, 3%. Keep adding your percent until you reach your goal. If this sounds simple, that's because it is. Personal finance is simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. It just requires discipline. No, not that. Discipline. You know, the kinds your parents talked about. I know. When you got this lecture as a teenager, you thought your parents were idiots. Well, let me tell you something about your parents, kids.  Not because they told you to save your money, but because they didn't follow their own advice. They got into financial straits even though they were probably making enough money to retire with ease. They did this by making bad financial decisions like subprime mortgages or buying a lot of junk they didn't want. Lucky for them, they can probably rely on entitlements to bail them out. But those probably won't be around when you retire. In all likelihood, they'll be stripped into the dustbin of history. The point is, if you don't want to be anything like your parents' kids, take my advice. Start putting your money away right now. Quit thinking it's lame to have personal finance goals and, as said, think of it as... Part 3. The Revolution. So you say you want a revolution. Or you follow a lot of socialists online who say they want a revolution. Well, you know what? That sounds really appealing right now. I'm all on board for a good, old-fashioned, peaceful revolution where we overthrow the old capitalist regime, implement communism, and re-educate those greedy capitalist pigs. But if I have one critique of today's socialism, it's that it focuses too much on capitalism's external apparatus of oppression. The state subsidized monopolies, the dismantling of trade unions, the militarization of the police, and the constant surveillance of the masses. Things that never happen under communism. And while we should definitely talk about the external apparatus of capitalist oppression, I feel we do a great disservice to the working class if we don't address internalized capitalist oppression. Now, I'm sure there are many fine Marxist scholars out there who have written many fine articles defining internalized capitalist oppression. And if you know of these scholars, please send me a list so I can promptly ignore it because nobody cares about academia. I define internalized capitalist oppression as the belief that a person's life is only worth the value of what it produces and consumes.  Intellectually, we know that money is in happiness. But subconsciously, capitalism bombards us with the message that consumption equals fulfillment. In other words, to consume more, you need to work more.  All of this is to explain why if you're a socialist, as many young Americans say they are these days, you need to start taking control of your finances now. And I know a lot of you are thinking right now.  One could argue that being financially responsible is a way of enabling capitalism. But if you stop to think about it for more than a second, you'll find that's a ridiculous statement. Because as we discussed earlier, capitalism does not want consumers. It wants people it can scam. And the less you know about personal finance, the easier you are to scam. And that's why, if you call yourself a socialist, it's important that you take control of your finances now. Because taking control of your finances is an act of revolution. And I'll be the first to admit, it's not the sexy kind of revolution where we storm the best deal, overthrow the bourgeoisie, but it is important because by taking control of your finances, you're overthrowing internalized capitalist oppression. And until we overthrow the oppression rooted in all of us, no revolution will ever be successful. I'm Comrade Rourke, and you are the Revolution. Produced in collaboration with Fort Collins Public Media, if you have any questions, comments, or death threats, please email us at communistfinance at gmail.com or follow us on Twitter at Comrade Rourke.


This is the first video in a six-part series on yoga. In this series, I'll look at the effect yoga may or may not have on a wide variety of conditions, and yes, do a little myth-busting, but in both directions. Check it out. The practice of yoga for health has become popular in the United States and worldwide. A 2016 survey estimated that 36 million Americans may be involved in yoga to varying degrees. Though the origins of yoga go back thousands of years, it was only introduced in the United States about a century ago. What are the risks and the benefits? Yoga users tend to report having a better health status, but that doesn't necessarily mean yoga was the cause. For example, yoga practitioners were more likely to be normal weight, rather than obese, and that alone could give you better health. Of course, if the yoga was responsible for the weight loss, then that would certainly be to yoga's credit, but yoga users are also more likely to be white, female, young, and college-educated, all of which are independently associated with better health status, the same thing with higher socioeconomic status. Yoga practitioners also tend to exhibit other positive health behaviors, specifically more regular physical activity in general, and a vegetarian diet, and the more yoga people practice, the more likely they were to cut out meat and eat more and more fruits and vegetables. For every additional day per week of yoga practice, the odds of being vegetarian increased 20%. About one in three yoga teachers surveyed in the UK follow a plant-based diet much higher than the general population. So, when you're doing a study like this, comparing the cardiovascular health of yoga practitioners to runners to sedentary individuals, you can see how difficult it would be to tease out the effects of yoga when significantly more yogis reported refraining from eating meat compared to the other two groups. It's like when I was reading about the role of yoga in the prevention and management of various cardiovascular diseases. I was so excited to read that yoga could significantly reduce cholesterol levels. After all, heart disease is the number one killer of men and women, and when I looked at those studies, I got really excited. Reversal of coronary atherosclerosis with yoga? I thought the only lifestyle intervention that could reliably do that was a whole food plant-based diet. Well, what do you think the yoga lifestyle intervention was? A diet pack so full of whole plant foods, fruits, vegetables, whole grains, beans, and nuts, they were getting about 50 grams of fiber a day. No wonder they got heart disease reversal. But what role, if any, did the yoga itself actually play?  Whatever gets people to take better care of themselves, right? If your tinfoil hat tells you Martians want you to skip the donuts, I'm all in favor. Whatever it takes. But if we are to tease out whether practicing yoga has any special benefits in and of itself, we really need to look at interventional studies, or randomized controlled trials that go beyond just associations and correlations and can instead prove cause and effect. For example, when we find yoga users have better health status and are less likely to be obese, that could be reverse causation, meaning instead of yoga leading to better health and a normal weight, maybe being in better health, not being obese, is leading to more yoga. Same with the flip side. When you read that yoga practitioners are more likely to have mental health conditions, depression, anxiety, musculoskeletal conditions like arthritis, gout, lupus, fibromyalgia, joint pain, sprains, and asthma, yeah, maybe yoga could be contributing to some of those conditions, like muscle sprains, but for most of these, it's probably reverse causation, right? People with diseases seeking help. Are they getting it? The only way to know for sure is to put it to the test, which we'll explore next.


What makes a great olive oil so for me freshness is is definitely key when you talk about health benefits and polyphenols and all The high levels of antioxidants that you want in a really healthy olive oil something you really want to have in your as part of your Healthy diet you want to look for fresh oil, which means I follow the global harvest So I'm one of those rare breeds that every quarter I travel whether we're in the Mediterranean, which would mean Italy and Greece and Spain and Portugal and then I Travel south of the equator for their season their fall, which is opposite of the Mediterranean in our summer time So I'm there in Chile and Argentina, which Chile has beautiful fruit I mean the the climate the Mediterranean like climate zone in Chile is beautiful and then my I'm just home Actually, if I have bags under my eyes, you'll you'll know why I've got jet lag. I'm just home from Australia And you know hanging out with the kangaroos and the olive grows over there where they also grow wonderful olive oil So freshness and following the seasonality Those polyphenols and healthy antioxidants they decline rapidly over time So about six months they start to deteriorate after the pressing So for me, you know, I'm on the global quest of freshness Which is a high-quality? Indicator of course picking the fruit very green that makes a great olive oil So if an olive is green when it's harvested it will have about 10% yield inside the fruit 10% oil if you let that same olive paint on the tree until it's completely black You could get up to 30% olive oil so Unfortunately, the oil quality and the health benefits of the higher levels of oil are not there like you it's a healthy fat Yes, but you're not getting the antioxidants the polyphenols all the plant sterols then and you know All the health benefits you could be getting from a very early harvest oil So that's why kind of like the Tuscans early on were very big Like people would say a Tuscan style olive oil or the olive oil from Tuscany is the best Because they had a tradition in Tuscany to pick the green the very green fruit They were one of the first people to do that and harvest that very green flavorful antioxidant powerhouse, so in general I Tend my palate goes toward that fresh green powerhouse style of oils as you're used to like in the trio You know that I send you Yeah, so You know, I think that's a good point now sometimes in America. We see the words Nouveau Olio or Nouveau olive oil is is that a sign that these were picked greener? It can be a sign usually it's a sign of freshness But you know, I have some issues with that because sometimes they'll bottle it in clear bottles You know to show off its fancy color Which is great if you can consume it within the first few months of harvest But unfortunately with these these some olive oils people think like unfiltered They look for really cloudy olive oil and that can be good the first few months of harvest after harvest So first of all always looking at harvest date single estate farms But what happens is in an unfiltered oil and if you lightly filter the oil or let it naturally settle before you bottle it What can happen if there is sediment in the bottom of the bottle that starts to ferment so there's water in there There's vegetable yeast and that causes defects in the oil So a high-quality olive oil from a professional taster standpoint should have no defects in the oil to be considered extra-virgin it shouldn't be non-defective so You will get those defects if the if all that was sediment was on the bottom and starting to ferment over time But typically that is an early harvest style oil That is a category and you know some marketers have kind of latched on to that term But it's not novello Or no ovo if it's nine months old and you know, so you got to check your harvest date. That's key I think that's a great point. It's a point. I make in all my podcasts and videos that you really need to see a harvest date on on the label and the other thing that I warn people is that the sell by date or use by date is It's horrible number one I mean tell me why that is Sure, that's a super great question because really that is placed on there at the time of bottling Not the time of pressing especially if you're buying from one of the big bottle bottlers Which has a lot of Where they import a lot of different oils from a lot of different countries And you can see on there when it says like sourced from and you see the Initials of eight different countries how much micro management do they really have of that product? I mean olives after all are fruit, right? So we have to think of them like fresh fruit juice Yes, it unfortunately Yeah, it's based on a lot of times on bottle date not on when the fruit was harvested or it was actually pressed So yes, yeah, it's best to always look for harvest date, you know dark bottle Single estate those sort of tips for sure Yeah, I've been shocked even going into gourmet grocery stores or gourmet wine shops and seeing these what appear to be, you know gorgeous expensive olive oils and in fact I was in one last weekend and You know, I always pick up and look on the back and many of these were pressed in 2015 and 2016 They're selling for fifty and sixty dollars a bottle and I've gone What the heck are these doing here in you know this high-class store? Yeah, that that is absolutely true And it you know Americans have been kind of tricked into buying like fancy bottles with nice cut glass and beautiful labels and honestly, you know It's tough, you know, it's really tough the American the big Bottlers are doing a better job than they were there They're transitioning away from the clear plastic bottles and over to at least tinted glass light or Tinted plastic the pet bottles does keep some of the light out fluorescent lighting and grocery stores not ideal for olive oil light destroys olive oil So, you know, the big bottlers are trying to do better You know and and are succeeding on some fronts and and there's a place in the olive oil market for everyone Whether you're the everyday consumer or if you're really focused on your health and want to use olive oil as a conduit And backbone to your healthy lifestyle, which is where we fall we fall in that camp So we want the best we can get our hands on All right, you brought up extra virgin olive oil What the heck is extra virgin? Okay, so extra virgin is the highest category of olive oil that's contained It's produced using solely mechanical means. So that means there's no heat involved. There's no chemicals involved It's really the highest category. So it's got to have a very low level of acidity and Acidity in olive oil is not something you can taste so people, you know consumers can't really identify acidity What acidity tells you? When you're doing a chemistry panel is the quality level of the fruit. So it's all about the quality level of the fruit So Where they picked immediately and taken to the mill immediately or did they sit around for 48 hours? Where they really ripe fruit and they were placed in the back of a dump truck to produce bulk oil Or were they placed in small crates and carried to the mill Where they left in the sun was their fly damage. So all these things deteriorate the fruit and will Raise your acidity level. So you want a very low Acidity level in the olive oil and to be extra virgin and honestly the extra virgin category is actually pretty wide like for example in my my oils are third-party tested by a lab in Italy and the to be considered extra virgin and needs to be 0.8% or less of acidity so the lower acidity the better So for example, I'm just pulling up a couple of my my recent labs Mine were not even at the point two level. So very you know very very low acidity So that's what you want to you know look for and some Bottlers who actually put that on the label if they're super quality, you know minded And you know look look at sources like flow sole a look at national competitions Look at the California Olive oil competition that happens at the LA County fair That those are some good tips for identifying and and just educating your palate and tasting olive oil and understanding What to look for are the best things you can do? Yeah, a few years ago I had the opportunity to talk with the the minister of olive oil in Italy Yeah, he makes a very good point. He said there is absolutely no Proof that olake acid, which is the mono unsaturated fat in olive oil And olive oil is not just a lake acid, but it's the major Fat in olive oil. He says there's no proof that olake acid is has any major benefit over Over any other oil or mono unsaturated fat. He said it's a carrier for the polyphenols and the antioxidants And and he said we have to understand that and I I think that was a very important point There there's nothing unique about this fat Right, it's what it's carrying to us It it's a carrier and you know when you put high quality extra virgin olive oil like like my oils on food you actually Can your body accepts the new accepts the nutrients even even higher at a higher level? you know if you Drizzle it so when my wife and I my wife's a great cook in our family and when she sets a table with salt and pepper The olive oil goes on the table at the same time because we're splashing it on the way some people would you know Who we catch up we would be drizzling it on our broccoli or green beans or you know Whatever whatever whether it's pork or whatever, you know, it's always drizzled with mother nature sauce, right? So for us, you know, we use it that way You know to I to I guess absorb more nutrient to get more nutrient value of the foods We're already eating for their health value You know, that's a great point and it's something I just absolutely first thing I tell my patients is Yeah, cook with olive oil But olive oil has to come to the table and you're absolutely right It's right next to the salt and pepper and in any you know in any home in Italy in any Trattoria in Italy they bring the bottle to the table and it's right. It's the foods to deliver olive oil Absolutely, and and you know, I I don't decant mine into like a clear crew it where sunlight can get to it and things like that Like I prefer to store it, you know in the cabinet with my salt and pepper We like a really clean, you know clean area more minimalist look in our home So we keep things away, but when it's time to set the table It's the same as putting silverware on the table.  Okay. Good. Good. So go ahead you Alright, so we've actually had a fat expert on our program and one of the myths that is out there that I tried to spell on And hopefully you'll join me on this Olive oil everybody says well heat damages olive oil because you can't cook with it because it smokes and that's proof that it's damage Olive oil has a high a low smoke point. It starts smoking fairly early But it turns out it is the least Oxidizable oil there is it actually oxidizes less than coconut oil, which is kind of the gold standard And so can you cook with olive oil?  She roasts her peppers in it like there's nothing that they're not using olive oil for in the Mediterranean And getting all the benefits of fresh oil there at least once a year Even if you were to live in Italy, you would only have access to fresh oil once a year. So You can cook with olive oil I would say that the higher level of Antioxidants in the and polyphenol level in the oil to begin with Actually protects the oil when you're cooking with it. So in my home, I love fried eggs for breakfast So Megan will make some fried eggs for me and she knows to cook my eggs over and she she's like I said a great cook but she cooks my eggs over medium low heat and she does that in the fresh fresh olive oil and Honestly, I can't tell the difference between the fresh oil that would put in was placed into the pan And what's on my plate after the fact that I you know because I were pretty heavy users in our household like you Taking one from your playbook. And yeah, so, you know, I you know It doesn't break down if you cook at a lower temperature and and just respect like one tip would be You know, don't heat the pan with the oil inside Heat the pan on the stove Then add your oil then add your other component and that just keeps your oil from sitting there Oxidizing and breaking down. So that's just one little, you know, take away. Yeah, great. Yeah. All right


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David Colander and Richard Holt, and I have a series of several books and a whole bunch of papers, and we're still doing these things. Studying kind of where is economics going and what's the nature of economics, and some of this work has created some backlash. I'm Barkley Rosser, or J. Barkley Rosser Jr., and I'm at James Madison University. I edited the Journal of Economic Behavior and Organization for a decade, and I'm currently editing a new journal, The Review of Behavioral Economics. So you have sort of three terms. You have Orthodox, mainstream, and heterodox. And to some degree, we were inspired by seeing, being unhappy with mostly heterodox economists who would talk about mainstream orthodoxy, or mainstream orthodox neoclassical economics, and I'm kind of lumping these things together. So it's like heterodox versus this homogeneous mainstream orthodox. And we sort of decided things a little more complicated. So we decided there's sort of two aspects here. So one is an intellectual aspect and one's a sociological aspect. Orthodoxy is really an intellectual category. So this is when we think about standard neoclassical economics, equilibrium, and individual maximizing and rationality. These are aspects of this sort of Chicago school will be the sort of supreme of this, but it's much of the rest of the profession as well. This is orthodoxy, intellectual orthodoxy. The mainstream though is really a sociological category. It's the people who are in charge. Now some of the people who are in charge are orthodox, but a lot of the people who are in charge really don't support orthodox ideas. They're non-orthodox intellectually, but somehow they're at MIT, and they're at Harvard, and they're at Berkeley, and Stanford, and these places. But you think about somebody like George Hackeloff. So people are doing behavioral economics, or Verne Smith are doing experimental economics. People are very respected, and they're leaders of the discipline, but their ideas are not standard neoclassical. They're not orthodox, but they're very influential. Heterodoxy, however, combines the both. So it is both intellectual and sociological. So people who are sort of self-styled heterodox are both certainly intellectually non-orthodox, but also sort of they're not in charge. They're sociologically cast. And this is led to, of course, a lot of unhappiest. But I will also note over time that some of this whole emergence of, you might say, the sort of non-orthodox mainstream, that that's something that's happened over the last couple of decades. The sort of emergence of these sort of alternative ideas, which we are very much encouraging. That's been more in the last couple of decades, and it's become more important. But I think a lot of heterodox economists sort of are unhappy with thinking about that. They prefer to kind of have this duality between the mainstream orthodox and the heterodox, and the world's more complicated, if not complex. The standard neoclassical model usually assumes homogeneous agents, especially at least at the macro level. Of course, microeconomics has always had individuals have their own preferences, but usually you don't have these sort of interactions. Sort of people's preferences are on what I'm consuming and that's it. You don't really worry about what other people are thinking or what other people relate to. So these interactions allow for nonlinear dynamics and feedbacks that don't happen in standard models. Complexity economics is sort of a major theme of my research that cuts through a lot of different areas. Modern economists actually claim that it's physicists doing economics, but there are also a lot of economists working with some of these physicists and trying to kind of get a middle ground. There's a very long history, of course, of physics influence on economics and economic theory. We go back and Paul Samuelson, many of his ideas at a very standard, were drawn from physics. People like Philip Morowski have written books about this sort of thing. But this is a newer set of ideas. So one of the big themes has to do with probability distributions. So let's say in financial economics and also on income distributions, standard economists think about Gaussian normal distributions. We know that wealth distributions and capital income distributions and also financial market return distributions, these are not unrelated issues, have what are called power law distributions.  They have greater extremes. So you have great extremes of wealth, you have great extremes of financial market outcomes going up and down with speculative bubbles and bursts. And the account of physicists, they are much more willing to use these kinds of distributions, these kinds of models. And it's really quite amazing. You can pick up graduate textbooks like, say, John Cochran or somebody, very advanced graduate textbooks, hundreds of pages long, and you will find no mention of leptocortotic or fat tail distributions. They're using these Gaussian normal distributions, which simply don't fit reality. So some of the account of physicists are coming in and saying, you need to look at facts. You need to be more scientific. Of course, some of the economists come back and say, well, but you need some economic theory. You have no economic theory. You're just making things up here. But again, the account of physics models also tend to involve nonlinear feedbacks, nonlinear dynamics. There's a close link with sort of the broader complexity literature. Some of the important account of physicists like Doine Farmer was at the Santa Fe Institute, or used to be. They were originally coming out of doing chaos theory and all kinds of nonlinear dynamics and now doing all kinds of account of physics models and so on. Some behavioral economics is, I mean, it's getting more recognized and we've had a couple of Nobel Prizes. And Thaler just got the Nobel Prize and we've had a few others. But people are taking it more and more seriously. I mean, I think one of the things that this is one of those areas where a lot of people realize that the world really is, how do people actually behave in economics? Behavioral economics tells you because behavioral economics is they don't always follow what economic theory says. They don't follow the neoclassical, individual, rationalistic kinds of models. We're back to this stuff that Colander and Holt and I were talking about. So people behave in all sorts of ways. And it may or may not be rational, but if you want to understand how the economy works, what's going on, you have to actually look at how people behave and people do the darndest things as the old television show used to say.


All right well we're going to talk about IPv6 and we have learned a whole lot in the past few months and I think over the next couple years all of us have still got a lot to learn and so that's one of the primary things that we're going to try to convey to you this morning that this is an absolutely new animal, it's a new beast, you know it's like you've been eating glazed your entire life, it's just a turn around and it sprinkles, it's really different and you've got to be ready for it and so we've got four reasons here, four small with a billion. Jump right in man, tell them about the mandates. All right so we've got a mandate coming next year, June 30th 2008 the United States government is supposed to be IPv6 compliant so we're going to talk about what that means and whether or not it's going to happen. Address space is one of the most interesting questions right up front, you're going from about four billion addresses to almost an infinite number of addresses, 340 undecillion that means almost everything can be addressable so we're moving into 37 zeros, like a sci-fi realm of telematics so we're combining the entertainment industry, the emergency incident response, basically your windshield wipers will receive an email from the weather channel and check, if you're heading towards the direction of the storm it'll know your GPS coordinates and it'll check for your windshield washer fluid and make sure they tell you to pull over and hey refill because in an hour you'll need it and security concerns, that's scary. The bottom line is we're going to increase the attack surface by orders of magnitude so imagine everything with a battery having an IP address. The idea is to have a host to host end to end connectivity so things will have global IP addresses, there's going to be no more NAT and privacy issues and this is below my mind right now.  I'll tell them about the error, continue about the, oh the v6 error, we're going to just jump back while he's hitting f5 there, okay completely different as we mentioned before, the extensibility is huge, there's all sorts of room built in to do new things and to apply the protocol in different ways, you ready to go? Yeah, why don't we switch over, we got a little treat for you guys here, this is the latest version of Microsoft Vista beta 2, I picked this up on Wednesday at the Microsoft booth, I don't remember what the build number was, it was kind of long but installed it on this little car pewter, basically little mini ITX based machine that could do GPS and email and Microsoft Office and Linux and do whatever you want in your car but right now it's running Vista so I'm kind of new to this, it's got a snazzy interface beautiful graphics, you get this default, okay okay, so let's dig around a little bit, let's dig around, let's jump into IP config see what that looks like, everybody done IP config before, you know what it looks like? Alright so basically in Vista IPv6 comes installed by default and it is enabled and XP, the support is there but it's not enabled so you got to basically type in IPv6 space install and boom you know two seconds later you know it's running but in Vista it's already enabled so the way you can check it is you just do ping you know colon colon one for loopback and it's there, you can do the same thing in your XP box except you got to type ping six space you know colon colon, now unfortunately this network you know we weren't sure if they could support v6 tunneling because obviously it's v4 here, we were going to use a transition mechanism to see if we can connect to a v6 website but it seems like the goons you know well they try, they really they try it hard so you know we thank them for that but it looks like we don't have connectivity but one good test you could do is try to ping wwwipv6day.org, okay I knew I shouldn't have had that beer so that comes over v4 you could force six dash six flag, I'm sorry guys I'm trying to look lopsided here did that look right? Okay I got a space there thank you, oh so the address resolved look at that but we can't reach it because I think they're you know they're not allowing tunneling here probably means you got to allow protocol 41 tunneling or allow it to radio maybe they're blocking to radio ports so we'll get into that we could also try to paste this address into the you know internet explorer you got to have the little square brackets now imagine that it's not coming through but last last night from the oh what's that looks like we got connectivity all of a sudden so this kind of quirky obviously this is beta right so now it's working so that's kind of cool let's go to uh let's go to IP config again config dashboard all right oh look at all that what is all this stuff on you know on by default okay so we have okay we recognize this part right here okay uh okay we got to radio on okay one second I think it's all there we got all kinds of new stuff now three and five I mean this is on by default I didn't set any of this up it was just a fresh install all right well I guess we got enough uh digging around here let's see if we can pull up that site okay something's not coming up while we maybe we'll get back to we'll play with it later let's let's jump back to the slide but anyway this was a little treat for Vista's it was totally on plan you know experiment we want to show you Vista's got this stuff you know okay so just hit the valuable on this slide you know IPv4 is already at a stage where they can charge you for every you know a lot a lot of services this thing okay another five bucks and we'll give you another address right well with V6 you know there is about 50 octillion addresses for every human on the planet uh so if IPv4 is about the size of a skyscraper IPv6 is about the size of 400 billion planet earths do this your slide whoa okay so so we have actually a chance to start fresh you know IPv4 nobody thought it would last that long you know 20 plus years almost 30 years and the idea you know it wasn't designed for a large network it was kind of build ad hoc you know nodes one on you know on top of another now we have a chance to start fresh you know with V6 so we could do hierarchical addressing we could allocate blocks and you know in a specific manner to you know to you know expedite routing and you know here you can see that you know we're going to have you know an orbital net a sub you know subsurface net interplanetary net so you got to get online to get your you know IP address from Mars now so basically you know based on your prefix you know you'll be able to tell you know what network you know you're you know you can exist and so I mean totally new totally new approach here so tell them tell them why some people you know hate this thing okay there's plenty of critics we don't want to sit up here and pretend like this is a really great direction or this is the only direction we have to go in there's there's sort of a lack of a migration strategy and a lot of people are really frustrated with the fact that it's it's an alternative it's not an extension so you can't really say I'm going to go slow and slow toward ipv6 you actually have to do sort of an about face and move in a new direction but then a lot of people are upset about that but that's actually that's part of the point of it is that there were all of these shortcomings of ipv4 but there are all these things we wanted to do in the future and so the new protocol is meant to address the the bad old stuff and and the new possibilities yeah so we tracked through the the history a little bit you know ipv4 again was very resilient because it was very simple it was it was kind of dumb as some of the founders have called it and that's why it was resilient you know back in the day there was actually a controversial battle between the gossip protocol and the internet protocol gossip was heavily government backed it was very bloated because you know contractors and vendors you know could definitely make a buck on making it more bloated right and providing support but ip1 so the question is is ipv6 you know another you know government backed you know protocol or you know you know is it hype is it just hype will it die just like maybe you know service oriented architecture I mean things come up on you know left and right so you know let's let's take step back and you know take a look at the big picture the bottom lines we are running out of a v4 address space you know some countries like India you know you have to go through nine levels of NAT you know and you know and there and you know some third world countries have a ip address space it's less than you know a given American you know university so even you know bottom line is you know v4 you know it is old and maybe it's time for a change in fact NAT was you know and that was created as a workaround to you know to to solve the address space problem and some people who rely on NAT for security which don't ask me why but you know but at least maybe for obscurity but okay but okay and then and now you know two bright individuals you know propose the next version you know almost you know more than 10 years ago now so v6 is not brand new actually some trivia v5 was just you know audio video streaming protocol they actually don't even named v6 v7 but some you know they caught the mistake and obviously the goals were you know to expand address space you know optimization of routing a lot of customization and security in mind of course so here's that you can see the two you know lines in v4 v6 and parallel basically you know everything from you know the first exhaustion prediction in early 90s of you know the address space to the you know next generation of the you know proposal and finally you know some government decisions to you know to get their networks to be compliant or be able to provide you know support so there's a lot there's a lot where that comes from too in terms of what is the definition of compliance does it mean that you actually run you know v6 traffic or are you just providing support so there's many definite you know you know much confusion about definitions so okay I don't know if it's too early for math but I'll try okay we got some big numbers but the bottom line is each person on earth right 6.5 billion people could have 50 octillion addresses to themselves okay so I don't hope that wakes you up so towards the bottom you see some you know v6 addresses if this is the first time you've seen one they're long and you can actually how long does it take to type one and can you make a mistake when you're typing one yeah I tied myself three days ago it took me on average 30 seconds and I was trying hard to type a full v6 address in and then after I typed it into val data you know quickly back and forth before I hit enter I mean if those you with key was in front of you just see how long it would take you know type in a full address well you can't see with the zeros but imagine a complicated address you know I feel bad for the guy that has to do you know eckles you know you know okay well jump back one sec real quick so you can catenade by doing a double colon so the two addresses towards the bottom are the same and Kenneth will talk more about privacy but let's keep moving so okay we got you know your standard graphic here you know you can notice some differences there were some fields ripped out from you know v4 to you know v6 v6 seems much more elegant seems simpler just we have a quadrupled source and and destination address space you know towards the bottom you can see that the one fundamental difference is the next header field which actually moves the header options to to the payload section so that makes it very flexible so now that you have in the payload section where you put the data you can come up with your own types of headers so that that allows for much customization so and you can also daisy chain headers so you can put one header then you know next header field another header next header and so on you could have as many you know nested headers so that that actually is fun when you start playing with tunnels and you start encapsulating tunnels within tunnels and okay let's let's keep moving back structure okay so okay well we covered extend the headers and you know you could again improve quality of service one fundamental differences fragmentation is done on the host on the on the destination host so it's no longer done on the routers okay big difference so routers now will grab the fixed packet headers which are 40 bytes not like not the variable length headers in v4 you know read that and make a routing decision they will not have to parse the packet okay big difference there's you know there's all kinds of complicated jumbrograms and advanced features in v6 that you know you can go read about we can you know spend there's there's hundreds of rps at this point rfcs so yesterday we tried to stump the panel a little bit one of my buddies asked the following question at the tcpip drinking game i don't know i don't know how much v6 traffic they get but uh that was a long question you know it was worth 10 you know drinks and i don't remember the answer was but i had to do something with extension headers and hop by hop jumbrograms okay so it's okay so it's uh okay and um some differences from you know v4 to v6 uh there's no trace route alternative anymore so those of you you know old schoolers that were used to this to the ip you know record route option you can't do that anymore uh no broadcast address addresses we have a complicated multicast addresses so again the multicast you can spend a whole college semester on that but you know the bottom line is uh you know it's that you can broadcast to specific groups of ip's and to you know within um within a network so it's it's like you're limited sub um sub broadcast groups uh no uptime check anymore so okay so that's uh gonna hurt us with scanning a little bit and but the header's still in the clear so whoo good news okay and uh you know you hear a lot of uh talk about built-in security with v6 so you know that's your silver bullet well you know they're most mostly they're referring to ip sec okay uh so that's an encryption uh i mean that's a cryptographic you know protocol and um the bottom line is uh what mandatory ip sec for v6 means simply is that uh if you're writing a v6 stack you have to provide support for ip sec doesn't mean that the network will automatically run ip sec so the bottom line is you know your your your v6 stacks out there will have ip sec support but how many people will actually use it i mean ip sec uh you know there's uh there's a public key uh you know algorithms involved and if if any are familiar with trying to deploy you know a global public key infrastructure you know you got to solve that problem first before before you try to introduce ip sec you know global you know brokerage of tunnels so um i'm sorry all right so the question was what about opportunistic encryption if it's available to uh to a specific host so it is it is it is not that hard to set up tunnels between uh you know the ideas have a host host connectivity so you can set up manual tunnels between you know you and somebody else on the other side of the planet or somebody's toaster refrigerator and the traffic will be encrypted so you can manually set up tunnels as long as the network will allow for for you know ip sec tunneling so uh that is allowed the problem is it's not scalable because you're deploying them manually so you need to have tunnel brokers that can negotiate keys between two hosts and between each session and if you're running you know two web browsers and you're when you're looking at 10 different web pages you got to have a different key for each session so imagine that on a global scale so okay well there's um ip sec was actually originally created for v6 in mind and uh it was back ported in v4 because v6 was you know so slow and getting rolled out that uh it was back ported so the idea again is to have uh you know if we can start fresh with the new model of internet we could we could try to have you know trust trust in a network where you know through the use of tunnels you know you you know who you're talking to there is authentication and uh the idea is to create a trusted network so as opposed to v4 where everything's kind of uh gentlemen says very few bgp sessions are encrypted with ip sec so there's some you know some more from the trenches so you know good luck deploying ip sec but we'll see let's move it let's move it yeah he was going to control the keys especially well we'll get to that in a second but on the international level who is going to control the keys right and so that's a huge limitation the widespread implementation of this stuff because once you get to the nation's state level one country is not going to allow another country to control its keys there's a plenty of uh use your imagination in terms of the pros of ipv6 because it's extendable you know you think of ad hoc networking you know mobility the ability for you to have your own unique unique has global ip address that you you can you know you can pick up and travel to you know travel cross seas and uh plug in a network and you have the same exact global unique ip address so you know use your imagination and uh again if we start fresh and we do it right if addresses are allocated correctly you can you can think of it as zip codes you can have prefixes uh specify you know you know have relation to a specific you know geospatial you know coordinate for a certain group of v6 addresses so imagine a thousand you know different users from uh you know an enterprise going you know surfing uh say you know a web server you know uh site b um well that's a in v4 traditionally you know there's no way to kind of you know there's no automated way to control the sessions they there's to be thousands different paths in v6 you can have bulk sessions so the idea is to have all those why not have all those thousand one thousand sessions you know viewing of you know from a browser you know at site eight you know viewing a server at site b why not bulk them together and channel them through the most optimized path so the idea is to you know approach it from from that perspective mobile devices everything everything telematics we mentioned earlier is the idea of combining you know you know entertainment uh you know incident response emergency systems everything with the battery you have an ip address okay there's also obviously some you know some negative aspects that you come to mind right away again some people are disturbed by by recognizing that there was no more net you know some people rely on that they love net that's you know that's that's probably sometimes that's their first layer of security uh there's no more net in v6 well they actually you know that there are some exotic ways to to to do that but there's no point you know if you have 50 octillion you know addresses just yourself um there's uh there's many migration technologies that during the uh during the phase of uh introducing v6 traffic into your network you're gonna end up having v4 and v6 at the same time so now you gotta think about how your sensors will you know watch traffic on both stacks well how are you gonna watch tunneling i mean there's many migration will increase the attack surface you know by orders of magnitude there's uh ipsec ipsec is great but then what about uh what about the sensors what about negotiating the keys with you know with the sensors with your ids with your firewalls with your host base solutions now if you know if you have encrypted sessions you know end to end your your sensors are blind so you gotta you know include brokerage mechanisms that will share the keys for you know with the sensors so and that's that's complicated stuff who i'm getting scared okay let's move it all right so we kind of given you a an introduction uh to some of the issues that are at play on the on the tech side but anything this important uh on the tech side you can imagine has as significant implications for governments around the world national security issues uh ability to sort of control and come to the aid of your populations uh to control military forces to run expensive satellites uh in space uh one thing you know often say dod drives uh technology just like you know nasa sort of drove so many things you know over the past you know a few decades that sort of came out uh into everyday life um warfare uh that said itself like everything else is is completely networked today so it's the very nature of warfare uh is is network centric you know down to the number of bullets and the sticks of butter you have uh to give to your troops um all of that needs to be controlled uh via the networks now obviously for a military that that's going to lead to a better operational picture and more flexibility um in the battlefield at home a big question is whether or not this is going to allow governments more or less control over their own populations and the question is is important but also very philosophical in nature i mean from one standpoint you say great we're moving to the encrypted internet so my private communications are going to be secure on the other hand there's going to be more static ip addresses right and so it's going to be easier to track you back and we'll talk about the people's republic of china and how they're viewing ipv6 as important to their their national security picture uh in the real world we have we have emergency response issues that are that are very important not to the top level of national security but to the folks who you know who run law enforcement and fire and and and uh disaster recovery so one of the one of the important examples is called metronet six uh and again the the the basic uh thing in it incorporates metro politics and network ipv6 is short for um is handheld devices for pretty much everybody who's involved in uh emergency uh response disaster recovery uh available uh you know year-round that would connect everybody and one of the important aspects of this is ad hoc command centers so you know in washington dc or or anywhere else uh there could be sort of from the top all the way down uh secure communications uh between folks and this course is you know pre nine eleven there was so much flak you know the the cia and the fbi didn't speak to each other well they spoke different languages they didn't trust each other um if if implemented correctly you could see how ipv6 would lead to more trust you know you could you could even uh have you know a a sort of an intel group talk to a policeman on the street right and pass them information securely hey look behind you the ipv6 mandate uh so a year from now june 30th 2008 you know there is a significant element within the united states government aside this is important enough that you're going to do it period um it's interesting in that after that another major body responsible for looking at ipv6 turned around and said whoa this is not even this is not even a good idea at the present time in fact if we do it too early it's going to lead to increased costs and reduced security uh the the two are the omb which is associated with with the white house and we're operating on a white house initiative uh the department of commerce which was looking at it from from more of a tech perspective america and companies uh really is there a funny position right uh you would think that they would be driving this uh you know for many reasons for market share and for research and development however they're kind of stuck with the lion's share of ip addresses right so they've got so many ip addresses they don't know what to do with them and they're still have a sort of fully knatted so that's sort of an irony of the thing uh but we got we got a ton of ip addresses i mean just for example stanford university has more ip addresses than china so there is there is uh not really a shortage on the american side there are reasons though to switch to ipv6 uh companies are very interested in reducing the rendezvous servers and the developer time that's necessary to do all of the coding that is involved with natting uh so when you when you're developing you know xbox games when you're looking at vista all of this very expensive to develop so ipv6 they see as a way to increase you know the the facility of uh allowing p2p connectivity and so toward that end microsoft's under offering a hundred million dollars for developing software and programs that would fit this model for vista in the future in case you're interested let's move to the people's republic of china so you know in the united states the shift is mandate driven currently right well in many other countries it's purely market driven they need the address space you look at india is worse than you know china but you look at uh in china you know okay they already don't have enough ip addresses for everybody who's online uh but uh you know they need uh they need the space uh in a in a serious way it's also a big effort as china modernizes very quickly to develop a serious indigenous intellectual property and everybody's participating they are somewhat sluggish today and and really the prime the prime factor and this is somewhat disappointing for the chinese ipv6 team is this is lack of applications and so you know you can see how that's that's that's a problem so finally uh in regards to the prc and and it's not just to bash the prc but it's it's this is a problem for all all nation states it's sort of the balance between you know privacy consumer freedom and and the the the need for law enforcement to prosecute crimes so in the chinese case uh you know we've got some things to look at okay they already station police at internet cafes and they're already on the lookout for things like sweatshop videos that will indicate that they're you know they're not playing fair by international labor laws um and then on the criminal side you have them openly saying ipv6 is important for us to assure that we reduce crime uh in the country and it's specifically through the better better tracking of individuals through static ip's uh some colorful stuff between america and china is you see a lot of uh collaboration a lot of acquiescence and between our major companies uh companies because they want the the market entry into china and there's no way they're going to get there without providing china with what they need just like microsoft provides them with the source code right uh in order for them to buy the operating system they're not going to buy it otherwise um you know google and yahoo they have they have helped prosecute individuals in china you know by offering you know personal information uh upon request now at least one congressman is you know comparing this to world war two a collaboration with the nazis uh europe is moving forward they this is this is uh um much more market driven there's a lot of investment there um they've got some of the same stuff we've got going on on the emergency response side uh and some of the same issues with okay we're we've come this far so what now you know can we have more money to invest or they don't really you know there was complaints that they didn't see the uh the the visible uh tangible rewards uh so far with with ipv6 uh here is a concept car and again ipv6 makes these things possible we talked about earlier with the the windshield washer fluid but really you you can network everything right and so you can be plugged in uh to to many different things you can even have uh you know ad hoc network connectivity everybody in the car and then between cars you know if a car is approaching you too fast you know you could know that if you're if you're you know son is 16 years old is driving too fast it sends you an email quickly right and lets you know uh so there's a there's a lot of possibilities the japanese side is different from from the china the chinese example in that uh you know in china they need the address space for for people in japan it's it's electronics right they've got so many things it's absolutely gadget crazy country so they want to address all this stuff so we can talk to each other so we can talk with the companies uh so you know so they can talk with their friends so they've been at this for a long time you know as early as 2000 they identified ipv6 is critical to you know to the future of of an e japan uh and they do hold uh the world records uh the university of tokyo both in ipv4 and in ipv6 and they're putting money into you know a taxi pilot programs so so that when you know visitors and when you know travelers come in they can see the immediate value of the new of the new network connectivity um in india is very interesting uh just mention one thing you know so so the the the the companies want to have a v6 test bed right and so it's a bit of a controversy on whether or not they're going to open it up to the world or have it sort of as their own their own thing obviously uh the major international telecoms providers want to play in this but there's a big element there that that want to keep it close hold and and and you know pay uh just real close attention to national security issues and um sort of proprietary information there um south korea already owns trillions of addresses um this is a is an issue say for instance for africa africa there's a lot of countries that really benefited from cell phones satellite phones vsat all this stuff was really beneficial because they didn't have a lot of landline in countries right so this is a huge step forward for them and in the same way ipv6 should also help certain countries with really no with hardly any uh a network connectivity at present there's going to be plenty of addresses to go around okay here's a here's a slide i just thought i would check quickly to see uh you know within government donate domain so we have dot gov right well france has gov dot fr and every every country has has their government address space so these are the ipvc ipv6 hits within the address space so it was a little bit surprised with you this was as of yesterday the usa came out on top but maybe maybe a bit of a surprise uh the south korea came in came in second uh but very very close uh but then you have china japan taiwan or all next what does that tell you right asia is seriously investing uh in ipv6 some countries i mean it's shocking check republic i mean you've ever been there what a what a terrific place right but uh zero hits now you mistyped it i think you mistyped it i did not mistyped it i did not i did not mistyped it i checked in fact several several different ways so interim analysis okay it's very different you know between the prc and the usa right um there's a lot of investment in china it's very visible they talk about it all the time it's crickets on our side but uh you have to realize the different economic models uh very much pertain here and in china you don't do anything without government support so it could very well be and we talked with a real big shot in ipv6 world who said that the behind the scenes american industry is almost certainly the the number one spender an investor uh in ipv6 you really just don't see it so it may it may be just slightly different different models here in our country the you know in the united states it is going to be more market driven and we'll see how that plays out it's going to cost money for sure and you may be wondering what's this going to cost my my company right uh so the department of commerce report which was more technical in nature and and really got more into the weeds uh said if you have eight core routers 150 switchers and four firewalls it may cost you two million dollars but yeah lots of other people saying this is absolute nonsense you're going to take care of all of this for no money at all it's all going to happen within tech refresh right so you know hardware software that's coming out now is ipv6 is compatible right so you're primarily you're going to have to invest in some training and in some uh awareness uh and one of the things we're going to suggest to you later is that maybe your organization just taps a couple of folks to get up to speed on the ipv6 issue because it's not not going to be it's not going to do you any good to jump in with both feet but you're just going to want to watch this issue uh and know where you should be there's a real interesting comparison between y2k and ipv6 there's a lot of people who think that you know that it's way overblown and then you're better not you're not paying attention at all to ipv6 and it'll just go away but almost certainly it's going to require some smart resource decisions on your part and there are going to be some niche admin skills such as typing these long addresses that that may come in handy on the privacy side there's just differences you know and some of this is cultural it's real interesting a lot of times when you look at you know warfare espionage uh you know politics police work a lot of culture comes in and so in in asia they're gonna have they're gonna have a less of an expectation in general for privacy in your daily life in some languages privacy i think my wife studied chinese for years and i can't quite remember now but i think in the languages you don't even know how to describe privacy right you don't even know where to begin because it doesn't exist right uh so you know in europe you know much more there's some sectors absolutely demand it um in our country you know we still have the death penalty right so you know we we love our privacy in this country but we also feel like y'all if he's a criminal or we think he may have committed a crime shoot him really actually it might be worth mentioning uh it might be worth mentioning that uh there is the uh e u i dash 64 uh field in the in address where you take the lower 64 bytes and essentially you rip off the mac of the of the of the nick and uh you insert the additional bits that are somewhat randomized so you take you take the mac and then in the middle you slap on some randomized bits to create give yourself in a sense you know privatize the you know address so there is there is that and it makes it complicated for large enterprises to deploy because they can't keep track of their assets that way so you know whether you know whether that's going to happen it would be a prevalent or not is another issue so okay incident management we're kind of running short on time but basically you've got you know the registries you have the internet management bodies and uh let me just show you some of what they say because we don't know there's some there's there's still charting the the course for this so it's it's more like i want to move in this direction and you will figure out how to get there as we go but some of the things they they really want aggregation it's they want a network infrastructure that's hierarchical in nature and that is that is planned right and that is not sort of uh wild west and and just you know uh but that's it's tough it's tough and we can give you a couple examples already it started starting moving in a very um sort of uh crazy crazy way they want everything to be unique worldwide you know so that so that uh so that it's not behind in that and it's not obscure and it's not difficult to uh to to to trace to trace somebody back which has all kinds of implications obviously they want everything to be registered they want it to be fair and equitable so you know for that's worth they want us to avoid wasteful practices so that we don't begin to waste IP addresses as we've done in the past and you can leave that to yourself to wonder whether that's that's really an issue anymore there is something called the ipv6 ready logo and these are the five things that you can actually get tested uh to to acquire this logo but just a quick search for the logo um this week yielded plenty of Chinese addresses and more so perhaps up front than the uh the English addresses um but but very interesting here some people are after the logo one of the things oh this is very interesting the uh to acquire the logo a lot of people wanted ipsec to be intrinsic to it you know you got to have ipsec before you get the logo and the prc china uh said no no it needs to be optional we want the logo without ipsec being mandatory and they won the debate so part of the thing to think about here is whether or not uh you know other countries or other interested you know privacy groups uh anybody somebody raise your hand uh should have weighed in on that debate and argued uh you know the flip side and and tried to win the debate however the bait's been settled and ipv6 sec again is uh is optional and ready ready logo two i believe it's in the works that might actually have ipsec i think their national community i think finally stood up and tried to influence standards so some to look out for the current status of v6 deployment where is it now some of you might have heard of the six bone well six bone dot org website as of uh i think first week of july has announced that uh you know they discontinued essentially their project because uh that uh first essentially experimental testbed for v6 uh doesn't uh need to exist any longer because we're moving to the real v6 internet so the six bone has been discontinued uh now you know now if you go to ipv6day.org that is a you know a quick little wiki to you know with some cookbook steps on how to get connected for free right now today and so you know goodbye six bone now now the expectation is that v6 internet is you know spreading you know you know physically you know across the world know the experimental stage you know that that label has been you know ripped off so again obviously we cannot jump straight into v6 and we can't flip a switch majority of our networks are v4 only right now so i think it's important to distinguish between a difference of tunneling mechanisms that allow you to do v6 over v4 networks um there's also a term native v6 which means your hard work can handle v6 you know the v6 stack so then you can run dual stack uh you know dual stack hardware which could talk both v4 and v6 and eventually we'll have all native only v6 and uh we'll treat v4 as you know as legacy we're gonna tunnel v4 probably over v6 but i think that that'll be that's you know that's i think light years from now but i think v4 will stick around for a long time but imagine all the combinations of these heterogeneous environments where you have v4 only you know v4 with the v6 tunneling you know v6 native only dual stack i mean imagine the combinations of you know the environments that can exist and there's obviously some tunneling protocols that are listed on the right now you know what exists out there right now that can support v6 as of today you know most companies there's very few robust stacks out there most companies just buy buying from third party so whether the stacks have been tested you know they're still you know i'm surprised that six bone is gone i'm actually very surprised but you know i guess the experts are you know expecting that there's some implementation of the stacks that are ready there's uh it's worth mentioning that the two uh two uh asian projects uh kame and osagi kame being um japanese for the tortoise and osagi being japanese for the rabbit and two projects that kind of race to uh to complete the you know v6 modules for uh for the you know the unix kernel for kame and for you know linux kernel for the osagi and as the you know the moral of story is that kame finished uh you know long long before the the uh the linux version and osagi is still very buggy so linux support you know it's out there and i believe after 2.4 it's uh you know it's already included but it is very buggy especially if you try some of the advanced features like auto configuration so the moral of story is you know bsd you know finished way way ahead okay these are real stories uh of tech support right so you want to try it real quick okay okay so i'm tech support i say hi this is comcast hi i'd like to subscribe to your internet service for my resident specifically uh pv6 sure why not uh well can you double check if you actually have native v6 three minutes later do you have a max or ipv6 is for max okay okay i wish we could record this legality it was recorded okay verizon uh verizon same thing you guys have v6 sure could you check if you actually have native v6 well you're talking about the mobile internet where you can connect no matter where you are no oh you mean fiber they're laying fiber everywhere well the medium doesn't matter uh fibers of plus though i i don't know you need a static ip but we don't offer that since we're dsl i know our sales folks they told you to call me but but they know what we offer well yeah they forward me to you okay um so obviously you know your browsers you know your applications you know we need to um need to have updates uh so there's you know developers will we need to learn you know the new protocol there's you know there's some uh actually some interesting you know parsing issues not with browsers having to accept colons and square brackets you know you can use your imagination um the industry uh is uh you know still slow the the standards are not being you know pushed we just uh you know organizations are taking you know what they can there's a lot of room for snake you know oil products it's important i think for larger organizations to push for standards for people to speak up because you know right now it's the the you know the industry does not provide much in support um um again uh you know some some trends to expect you know as v6 will come around you know your average new hires uh you know for your network specialists uh you know have you know a couple years of uh you know v4 experience i mean i i barely know v4 but hey i'm gonna see ssp so i think you know i'll be able to handle the v6 right well you know new hires will have zero knowledge in v of v6 um and uh actually you know a quick little maybe trivia does anybody know what the double colon uh the nickname for double colon is fill with zero no but you know what it's called a box yeah we don't know we're just serving we actually because we had actually we wondered if there's a name for we couldn't find one yeah for weeks okay there you go the double colon is a box okay let's go we thought we need another rfc for the name because you're going to be saying it so often you know colon colon colon what about a double colon a colon by itself uh colon but see there's two syllables so there's room there if anybody thinks there's something catchy go ahead see what he said on ipv6 go by what the japanese do okay okay okay so you know where are we gonna expect you know the the attack methodologies to you know to take you know to move in what direction uh you know if if ip sec will become prevalent then the certificate authorities uh that will hold the keys will essentially become targets uh dns will become an obvious target because that'll be the primary uh you know primary source for uh you know network administrators to to keep track of all their assets and um you know especially with the auto configuration and privacy addresses you know you you will need you know the dns will become a primary target so maybe dns sec i mean there's some there's some interesting solutions for you know hardening the dns server so you know we need to look out for that um there's a client side exploits that that that essentially addresses the the fact that uh because of host to host you know connectivity and the inability to scan large address spaces anymore you know the idea would be to to target the host directly so uh myriad of security concerns uh actually uh if you could switch real quick to uh switch the box if we have vista up we have let me show you some uh some interesting i found uh yesterday let me then pull it up for you i took a screenshot uh i'm just going through the properties and explore and um we'll wait for it until you do it to put up so we actually gotta get moving here who so there's a lot of link local problems uh that is a that is a very interesting area essentially you can think of your layer two attacks you know are you know essentially um being moved up you know to the next level so there's a lot of our poisoning our cash poisoning on the next level so it's an interesting area to get into something something to look forward to uh uh actually there's a screenshot so uh basically uh i went to ipv6 web page uh click properties on a gif and what is that garbage right there in the protocol that highlighted that so i mean interesting i'm granted it's a beta but it's that's kind of confusing uh again large attack surface you there's a you know migration will you know probably cause a chaotic environment and again the tax service is increased that's the whole thing i think you know it's getting much larger especially during the period where you're going to have to run both uh simultaneously so let's keep moving the sensors uh again we'll need uh key negotiations so you need tunnel brokers uh there's many exotic ways to do that uh it's complicated uh we can go ahead and uh you know move on there's um what are the current hacker tools out there current attacks uh there's uh there's suite of tools by uh the thc group uh new van hauser uh has actually published some interesting you know the first i think ipv6 ipv6 ipv6 uh attack suite uh it's very interesting i played with it immense results worth playing with um it works i mean bottom lines of works man in the middle attacks you know flooding network a lot of garbage traffic um you're relaying you know you know essentially inserting yourself in the in the route stealing addresses uh you know because anytime uh in auto configuration when you want to grab an ipv6 address you could it checks for uh duplicate address detection well you can constantly say well i'm it i'm it you can constantly grab you know ipv6 addresses a lot of interesting stuff uh you go to check out thc there's uh you know i think he i can't do him justice but it works and it's worth it and our next iteration of our presentation we're actually compiling a list of you know 30 plus tools right now that uh you know libraries that that that they could you know that could allow you do some vulnerability assessments and pentesting v6 um so one of the things just to realize about compliance is it's sort of really been watered down and it's you know compliance i'm sure initially was hey we're going to get squared away with this thing now it's pretty much you know the core networks are going to need to support ipv6 and probably the minority of of networks with you know within the usg may be there by then oh the ipv6 ready logo the politics are highly charged there's still a lot of decisions to make and they're very important uh so uh you want to make sure that you realize sort of the sort of the the points of future tension and and sort of weigh your voice in uh now here's some recommendations again you'll also be on the defcon website this week uh but um you these are some of the recommendations that we've come up with uh for you and your organization and the bottom line first thing first thing is that you probably have you might have real v6 traffic on your networks right now so go back and check the first thing is turn it off you don't if you don't need it you know obviously turn it off and then you know then tested look you know depending on your requirements allow it you know slowly for you know specific purposes if needed but first turn it off turn off tunneling in v4 you know even if you're if you don't have v6 hardware uh your your tunneling might be allowed so you want to you want to block protocol 41 you want to block to rato ports and uh essentially first ensure that you don't have any rogue traffic because to rato is certainly worse meant mentioning it's uh it's microsoft's you know spec they could essentially exploit nat and you know through udp it could it can give your machine behind and you know a cone nat a global ipv6 address you know for connectivity so i think i think the a lot of the online games have motivated that so uh it's funny is in the spec for to rato it actually mentions that this should be your last resort okay sure uh we uh i think we're running out of time for a demo but if anybody is interested that you're welcome to come up and chat with us about uh the v6 pack was our prototype we actually originally was going to be on a on a on a nano itx board running embedded linux but we salvaged our car pewter that's running mini itx and uh with that you know with the spirit of telematics we you know the idea is to we we have analog sensors with the um with the java you know api that if you you know lift you lift the last beer and you're uh and you're you know in the fridge it can send you know an email message you know to your cell phone so just it's just a toy but right now big thanks to dolomites sitting over here for helping us out with the car pewter he made some of the some progress on it but part part of it is we're just not there with ipv6 is not we're not there yet so is it was it was it was tough it was tough to pull off but hopefully soon right and what was funny is uh you go ahead and uh what's really funny is they've already done this at caesars so we show up right and we open the fridge and they've already got one right you reach in and this happens to me last year in a foreign country i just reached in to you know to say well what is this bottle in here and you pull it out and all of a sudden click behind it right there was a sensor and then all of a sudden i'm i'm building my bills charged and i've got to drink this thing yes but the ipv6 fridge was thought of a long time ago by the hotel industry well i don't think it's not v6 there's a v6 yeah there's a i think there's a modem the telematics part yeah we found found a little you know modem behind it but uh well yeah somebody somebody that it's uh maybe we could work with them so we own your fridge elite snackers hey thanks guys thanks a lot really appreciate it