Hello, hello everybody and welcome to our Wednesday live cast for the wiki tree challenge We have Mary Roddy here with me this evening and we're going to do the the introduction kicking off her week So I know everybody's excited and anxious to get working on something again We have this week to play around and add stuff to other weeks Branches and have a little fun on our own branches, but we are going to get back at it Whoo-hoo and before we go ahead and do the introduction on Mary I'm going to talk a little bit about wiki tree for anybody that is new so far I recognize all the names down there, but you never know who all it's watching now wiki tree is a community of genealogists who are working together on a single family tree in other words We collaborate to grow an accurate global tree that connects us all and it's free The wiki tree challenge is a year-long event and part of our year of accuracy Where each week a team of wiki treeers takes on a genealogist starstree and we try to make it more accurate and complete than it Is anywhere else our goal of course is to improve our accuracy on wiki tree Add more family connections and make more friends and we've certainly done that a lot this year now This last week we spent time with family. We added more information to previous challenge weeks But this year we're going to go ahead and feature Mary of the applied Genealogy Institute and I'm going to talk a little bit more about that collaboration first because of course Collaboration is key and that is what wiki tree is all about So one of the ways we collaborate is to use the spreadsheet which you see on the left When you get 25 or even upwards of 50 and we have reached that number quite a few times Participants working on one set of branches It's really really easy to step on somebody's work or to spend a bunch of time researching to find out that somebody else got To the profile and did the same thing you did so this lets others know what we're working on and then You know it helps us kind of separate things so we spread out and our skills aren't wasted now One of the other ways is using our g2g forum, which of course is our genealogist to genealogist forum We go ahead and post a new post each time we have a guest and then Team members can put interesting finds they can put comments and the biggest thing we use that for right now is tracking those bounty points and It kind of helps us mark our progress and what we're on now the third way We collaborate is a discord and we have definitely used that a lot this year That is our live chat platform that we're using goes on all during the week as We are a global site. We have people chatting in the rooms almost around the clock and sometimes it is around the clock during a challenge week There we can ask for translation help a second set of eyes a newspaper look up You know, maybe just some motivation and have people, you know Tell you that you're on track and what you're doing is right And now while it's not all about the points and I know we did not have a week So I am borrowing the board from last week A point system does help people keep Keep them motivated and it helps them be aware of their own progress So now there's two ways that they can earn points during the week the big points Of course are the bounty points and that would be 10 points for each the first ancestor They find on each line that was not on the primary tree Or a corrected ancestor now the second way is individual points for nuclear family members So that's where they've added siblings or children and let me tell you if we have branches with large families I can add up really really fast at the end of the week. We always look and see how the scores were we like to go ahead and and Congratulate our top five as well as list our MVP, which is our most valuable player Now last week of course. It was Dieter. He's one of our German experts and he was just tearing those brick walls down left and right It was pretty amazing so Now We're gonna get to the fun stuff This is what we've all been here for and we have plenty of time to talk tonight because we don't have any kind of a reveal to do so we can just sit and chat with Mary and find out what she's going on so Mary teaches Irish genealogy at the applied genealogy Institute She has a bachelor degree in liberal studies and a master in professional accounting She holds certification for genealogy and family history from the University of Washington She's credentialed by the board of Certification of genealogists. She's the treasurer for the Association of Professional Genealogists She's a trustee on the board of certification for genealogists and she's published many articles in various different publications and So is there anything there that I missed? That's probably enough. Yeah, and in her free time. She has no free time. So she quilts. Oh I love quilting. I love you'd have to show us what you do with it So Mary now, what got you interested in genealogy to begin with? My well, I had a friend um, we were preschool moms together And she did genealogy and she kept wanting me to do it. It was like, no, no, no, I'm too busy I you know, I have three kids and a house and a job and no, I don't have time to do that but my husband is a University professor at Seattle University and he had a Fulbright scholarship at the University of Limerick And I knew I had some Irish ancestry and I was sure that when the kids were in school and he was at work I could do all my Irish genealogy I had not done any genealogy whatsoever before so it didn't go very far, but I just fell in love with it So I I started doing it in 2000 when when Mark had a sabbatical And if you had to pick one, who is your favorite ancestor that you found? Um, I think it was probably my great-great-grandfather John Fields He a picture hung of him in my great-aunt house and I have it now in my house And I just love it. He's got this white beard kind of looks like Santa Claus. I dress up the picture for different holidays. I put like a Santa hat at at Christmas and he wears a Irish kind of Irish hat at St. Patrick's Day and for Halloween. He dresses up as Irish but He you know because of that picture and then his obituary. I mean, that's the way they wrote people's obituaries in 1900 They never said anything horrible. Everybody, you know, basically winds up as a saint, but a saint. Yeah And of course he was And so it just it was just really charming and he lived to be Almost a hundred years old. He was born in 1801 in in Ireland County, Meath and died in 1901 in Amador, California and he Just a few months shy of being a hundred and the town apparently the story was that they were going to throw a hundredth birthday party for him And they got really mad when he died on them He just needed to hang out for a little bit more time. Yeah So what other interesting stories have you found out about your family along the way? Um, one of the things that was really interesting that I found is my dad had told me a lot of stories about His father. I never met either of my grandfathers. They both died before I was born But my dad told me a whole bunch of stories. So I thought I knew pretty much everything about my grandfather But then when I was working on my portfolio for bcg, I I used That family my kurcher line as as my kinship determination project And I discovered that um, I knew my grandfather had gone to Dartmouth. I have his diploma um, and I knew what he studied there, but then I found a catalog and he was His senior year at Dartmouth. He was also a first year medical student Which I had no idea about. Oh wow And I don't even know if my dad knew that I can't wait to get to heaven and ask my dad Do you know that did I discover that you didn't even know that? Um, so anyway, that was really cool to find um and then I have another family my my bradley family and That's one of them. My brick walls. I'll talk about in a little bit, but um I there were 10 kids in this family and um, one of the brothers named his siblings in his will And named three sisters my sister mary bradley and my sister Catherine bradley and my sister jane bradley And my sister nancy mcgillan. So um, I thought that meant that he had three spinster sisters but no those three sisters Growing up with a surname bradley Married men with a surname bradley so Yeah, what are the odds? Three of them and I could find information on the three bradley ones. I cannot find nancy mcgillan. She's killing me.  We want to put our bloodhounds on. Yes. Yes Now when did you first discover wiki tree? um, so I do What I call bagging a live one. I love descendancy research and so you know when I However, I could find you know family members and then try to track them forward um, so I think that's how I discovered wiki tree just googling people or um You know using different websites and wound up with wiki tree and it's been really helpful to be able to find find people that way and try and to do DNA research and You know figure out You know, who are those matches? How do they how are we connected to them and and wiki tree is really great for Finding those siblings and other people that that I maybe don't know about Yeah, they're awesome.  Let's talk Yeah, and you can kind of exchange information where you know before um only using that other paid private site You know, sometimes it felt like I was just butting my head against a wall trying to reach out to people And they don't want to share their tree or they get suspicious, you know When you say I want to find out how related and they're like don't ask me questions. I don't know who you are Yeah, exactly. And and here you can actually go out and look and go. Oh, okay. I can see now I attached to to that part of their branches. So Oh look shelly made it. Hi shelly. Hi Hi More gen friends Awesome I know we were talking before we went live about how many of you guys um that we've had as guests this year know each other In some capacity are either friends or yeah, well, there's this gen friends group that we meet every monday sherry passy Melissa barker shelly Um, so yeah, there's been a lot of gen friends that are Your wiki tree people too. Yep. They've had they taken the challenge this year Now, what would you say are your um toughest brick walls right now? Well trying to find that bradley family. I have this will Of the reverend james bradley Um Out and that was kind of another story that that I got his will and you know Most of them were farmers or whatever and this guy was a priest for over 50 years And pretty prominent. So if you read any of the siblings obituaries or the nieces and nephews, they all kind of seem to refer back to Related to the reverend james bradley of newry And he left an extensive will with over $85,000 worth of specific bequest in it in 1883 Wow And and and named, you know to the heirs of my brother peter to the heirs of my sister Mary Or well, mary was still like only two siblings were still alive. So anyway, um, I've been able to track most of the siblings except for this Nancy mcgillan. I don't know whether she ever came to america um, I think I have maybe found her son but Daniel, but I can't I I don't know if she died in ireland or I just can't find her what the deal is I don't know where who our husband is because he's not mentioned. So I just know it's the mysterious mr. McGillan And so and I don't know who their parents are And that is one I mean and it and I found The there's two gravestones that mention this place lisbon In the parish of upper botany County taron and I could not find lisbon and I looked for years and I'm like reaching out on Websites and whatever to try to find it message boards. Anybody know where lisbon is nothing It's not a townland and I was looking for a townland. It's not a townland But when I was teaching my app gen course, um On irish research, I was playing around with griffus valuation maps and just I'm just gonna drive around upper botany parish and see if I can find lisbon So I'm like, you know way zoomed in and just And I found it.  So I know where they're from Um, but the catholic records aren't Extant from that time period. So I can't figure out who the parents are So at least I can't find them when one of the sisters died She also died in 1883 or 1884 um And supposedly she was 117 years old According to this obituary and her son had written back to ireland and they gave him Her baptism record. So he knew how his mother was. Yeah, but the problem was Um, if you believe that 117 age She would have been like 48 when she had her first child and 60 when she had her last and I just don't think that's true I think they pulled somebody else's record maybe that was In ireland that same name same name, but um, anyway Um, so I'd like to know who the parents are Um, I talked about john fields being my my favorite ancestor. He's from county meath 26 miles from devlin wherever that is no some nameless place in county meath 26 miles from devlin um, but I don't know who his parents are or exactly where that Place in devlin or in county meath is like to know about that um his wife was um Mary devlin and Um, they have a huge monument in amador california in this in actually in setter creek amador county um, and it's a Pretty ornate Mary devlin or field Beloved wife of john fields Has her exact age on it and everything Kills me. She's the beloved wife of him Um, but he's not on He's he's got to be buried there, but he they never carved his name on the stone. Oh, no Oh, how dare you? Um But and I have a name for her father. Um, she's native of county armagh And I think her marriage record says she's the son or daughter of henry devlin But I don't know anything about her mom or where in county armagh they came from so That would be another one And I have some german ones too that um, yeah I was going to ask you about those german lines. What do you know that kurcher bit? That's where this comes from um So my great great grandfather charl carl conrad friedrich kercher was the immigrant he was born in 1821 Just had his 200th birthday a week or two ago um, and um his parents Didn't get married till like I think going on the third child because the family story was that The The groom's parents did not approve of the brides family. They were The groom's parents thought they were pretty hot stuff. I think they were pretty educated and didn't want their son to marry the daughter of the Um, the surgeon, but it was a barber surgeon. So um, not not not. I don't know. They looked down their nose at her Anyway, um, I'd like to know about more about her family. Um, the shona minns And then but when you go up the kercher line a couple more generations to my fifth great grandfather on that line Um, he was a cantor and he's as far as I can go. I got his name um, jacob kercher jacob kercher Um, and I since that's my end of the line answers. I want to go further. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, let's go So, um, I want to know more about him. Um And then other germans. I've got these springer family. Um, and um, they lived in in germany in the false region and then emigrated to america um and lived outside of syracuse in a um, little liverpool or salina new york um, and my great-great grandfather was a um A cooper the salt industry was very big there and so he and at least one brother that I know of were cooper's Um owned property. I found the property um And their father died in 1864 And he was survived by six children And I only know two so who are the rest of them? Um, I mean I see I I maybe have names but um hit this um, so my third great-grandfather the one that died in 1864 was um Friedrich jacob springer and he um, there was like a national german religious lutheran German language newspaper and I was able to find um University in Illinois, I think that has them on microfilms. So they sent me like an entire the entire 1864 550 pages or something and kind of in july so I had to go like all the way forward to try to find this thing But it was in there. Um, but it just said survived by six children. It's like, could you give me some names people?  I know Or the ones that say, you know, they go, oh daniel and john gets this and and then the remaining amount of the children You know or all of the children of my second wife Okay, who are all the children and what second wife, you know, well, that's kind of like what this james brevley will um He just says To the heirs of my brother peter. Well, I know peter because that's my line and I know who his kids were right And jane just had one daughter. So I got her down but the rest of my I don't even know how many I'm looking for so So yeah, it's a little and we do like to take a really, you know, a whole family approach here when we do the challenge You know, because you know that the more people that you can add into those family groups and connections Not only is that opening you up to more possible cousins That also sometimes when you hit those spots that you're stuck in are records that you can't find You know if you add in there eight children or ten children And you start looking at the records for them sometimes something pops up that says oh the land my dad gave me or You know, oh my mother's maiden name was or her brother's name was or something like that You know, you find all those little tidbits So we really love to fill those families in and not just climb, you know on a straight line out that tree Yeah, I mean that um And I was teaching in my app gen institute class the irish class that I mean, I don't think you can do genealogy well Without the fan club research, but I don't think you could do irish research at all because A lot of them, you know Disavowed ireland or whatever just because they just kind of wanted to forget whatever But if you research them all, you know, somebody'll say county core cut That's how I made it back on my a hernline because you know Somebody says county cork and somebody else has got an exact birth date So when you can find the records, then you know, you got it and somebody else says the mother's made a name and You know, but you they're just little pieces that you have to put them all together Nobody has all the information right Yeah, and I love see, um, you know, we were talking before we went on air also about The size of the groups and I think the smallest we've really ever had is 25 and that was on a pretty slim week Um, we usually get you know around 35 it can be up to 45 people Working and one of the fun things to watch is when we hit one of those spots where you just can't find anything You know and somebody will be like I have got to prove this marriage or I have got to figure out what this other kid's name was You know and six or eight people stop what they're doing and they're like, okay Tell me what you want me to look at, you know And they this person will go on that way and this other person will start checking deeds and You know and they all kind of just work on that same group problem And it's just amazing to watch it's so much fun. It's very cool You can't you can't get that, you know, um type of research done anywhere else that I've seen but I'm like a tree so Um, I you know, I know when the weeks that we haven't had weeks that we start going through discord withdraw We're in there this week going. Okay. I haven't had anybody to talk to nobody told me a good job with that record Nobody offered to look up a little bituary for me. Okay, somebody tell me where you're eating for Thanksgiving We we've gotten really used to our our wiki tree cousins this year and and our communications and our help so Well, I just so appreciate this I'm in somebody do this. I'm just um, so excited and I just feel so honored that that you guys reached out. I just I want a car. This is more exciting Oh, well, there's nothing wrong with that. I tell you what, you know I yeah, I know every one of the guests has said that they appreciate it But we do too and you know, it just feels like we are giving people gifts all year long You know, we aren't just waiting for the holidays for somebody's birthday We've been giving the gift of being able to do this research forum and introduce them to ancestors that you know They didn't know anything about I mean all year It's just it's been amazing. It's been just an incredible experience. So Oh, and that's telling on me. Yes.  Um, I call myself a forger I always wanted a signature quilt and I didn't I don't have one didn't ever inherit one Um, so I made my own I found ancestral signatures on documents Whatever I could find What a great idea and so I sized them and then traced through with using a light box and a pen and traced through onto fabric and put it into a quilt So it was really fun. I have one document that on my husband's line that there was a Somebody a a man who got married. He was underage He signed the marriage application Since he was underage his father had to sign it And they needed a witness. So his father-in-law signed it. So that was a threefer. So that was pretty cool Okay, so I'm gonna tell my mother-in-law sandy if you're watching this tonight mom That's what you're gonna do for the next reunion make one of those quilts and make everybody at the reunion I'm sorry The things you don't think about though, you know, it's like the um, the relatives that you have that you just now I know you said unfortunately you weren't raised around your grandparents You know, but the relatives that you had a lie when you were young and you don't know any better And it's not important to you You know each and every one of those holds treasures that you can't you can't get back later you know so Yeah, I had I had grandmothers. I didn't I mean my grandfathers died before I was died Okay, but but I had the two grandmothers, but man, I wish I'd known and thought to ask And paid more attention and you know, even My dad was the sixth child and a boy So, you know, he's out in the yard and whatever and my aunts are, you know Washing dishes in the kitchen after Thanksgiving dinner and hearing all the gods have been all the stories And there's so many things that now I think oh auntie mary would have known the answer to that question Yeah, and I never asked auntie mary. So Wish I would have I know I do the same thing. I think man. I just kick myself sometimes I'm like I want to be able to go back in time now and whisper in my ear ask her this Write down this or take notes, you know, because um all those things we think we're going to remember We really don't So, um, I've been talking to my my own mom lately and we'll try these little exercises where we're spurring each other's memories You know, and sometimes she'll still come up with something that totally shocks me I'm like, I didn't know you knew that about that family member or you know what I mean Oh, I've never heard that story and I'm a grandmother now many times over. So Um, you know, it's it's really great. I I'm really I feel blessed that I still have her And you know, my in-laws are are both still here. But yeah for all the ones that I have lost I think man, there's so much knowledge just so much knowledge that's gone now from that generation My you know, I my my mom died when I was in high school. My dad died about um 12 years ago But after he died I mean he sent me a message from heaven to like a newspaper thing that I swear if you want to be to look at um about You asked you had this is a great story. You asked about Things I discovered about my family. Yes. So, um After my dad died um, I was I was doing some research on there there had been a a little girl that drowned and And so and I knew about that and I talked to my dad about that But I was I did a ton of research and and wanted to know who the paul bearers were I mean, I wanted to know everything and why do you pick those men? for paul bearers to to carry the little coffin She's just 15 months old um And so there was a guy named jack hide that was one of the paul bearers at jimmy hernd's daughter's funeral It's like, okay. So who's jack hide and why did jimmy pick him? So I got to learn learn all about jack hide And one day, don't you know Jack hide had been visiting his nephew phil redmond in the hospital. Okay. So now I got to know why phil redmond is in the hospital Right. You got nothing to do with this funeral. But now I'm hooked on I got another name that I have to research And so I start researching phil redmond and he was in a bad railroad accident and a train derailed um, his uncle was the engineer and thrown far from the locomotive and um Had internal injuries and died five days later and phil was not thrown so far And he was badly scalded and had skin grafts from over 300 men And the names I've collected about 150 names out of the newspaper Because I want to know who all these guys were and why are they donating skin? And I saw an article that said charles kersh Okay, and I saw another one the next week That had charles richer and charles percher None of those names are right. That was my grandfather charles kercher that donated skin They had just put the name in there wrong, right? And I just I had this vision of my father and grandfather At a bar in heaven saying oh, we got to get mary started on this one. Just watch your little tail wag and And so I never would have you know known that but I I just really that was a message that my dad sent me from heaven Look at this mare because he knew how into the stuff I was So that's just that's an incredible Yeah Make sure really appreciate all those um little things you find and The moments you can still have nowadays. Yeah After they're gone So now if you had to give one tip to new genealogists or family historians, what would that be? Study the whole family group And not not even just the family group you got to study the associates and and the neighbors And like they are your own Um, I made discovered I've been looking for My husband's ancestor Bartley Roddy. Where did he come from in Ireland? Um, I've been using his name for 38 years. I guess I better figure out where where he came from and by studying random neighbors Not related at all, but random neighbors on the 1860 and 1870 census who lived near the roddies in Ohio um I just I tracked them and I was able to find them back to ireland and these little town lands that are really close to and Close enough to where I mean, I got kind of a general area for Bartley Roddy near near Ballina And I've got like four town lands and then the dna match Also in that same area You know, and there there's absolutely no reason I Did I'm crazy sometimes to think that I should be looking at some guy living next door to my ancestor who's from ireland But you know, I got a couple hours. I'm gonna put this in and it paid off Yeah, and sometimes that works and you know, and even during the times where Families were migrating to new and exciting areas. Um, there were a lot of times that families would migrate together You know, so if you're really looking at who the neighbors are on the people are around them And you see oh the smith family lived, you know, right by him and oh boy This other family lived right by him all the time too and then you can't find them in 1860 go look for one of those other families because chances are they're right there right there.  You don't find on the siblings You look at the in-laws you don't find out in the in-laws you look at the You know godparents or witnesses and you don't find it there you look at the census neighbors and just keep getting bigger and bigger And eventually while you're deep in that rabbit hole you're hopefully gonna find something within Within that expanding circle I know we've all gotten lost in those from time to time. Yeah But it is a lot of fun, you know, and it is kind of up to us to Start start the work on documenting our ancestors and keeping them alive for the younger generations So that when they do get old enough to appreciate it and know, you know, how important it is A lot of this foundation will already be laid for them. Yeah I was talking about, you know dressing up. I've got portraits in my dining room and I put hats on them and so forth and My four-year-old granddaughter, you know knows about the ancestors and and my kids are gonna know, you know, this one woman Jane She wears a Jane Jetson costume at Halloween and and they may not know much about her But they will know that her name is Jane because that's her Halloween costume She's Jane Graham a her Oh, that's awesome. That is so great Do you have many things that are actually passed down from your family as far as like household items or? Not too much. I have those pictures I have a thimble a Kircher thimble that Charles Kircher Carl Conrad Friedrich Kircher the immigrant he was A tailor and he gave his wife as Augusta a sterling silver thimble and I have that I have those portraits That's really great though, you know, just just any little thing that you have but Yeah, I think sometimes you don't realize how important those things can be until You know, you see somebody that's received something like that That's been handed down or or maybe, you know, it wasn't expected. Yeah, so and I do have a Silver serving spoon That obviously was a a wedding gift to my grandparents. It says ab and ck Engraved into the handle of it for Agnes Bradley and Charles Kircher So that is so me. Yeah, pull that out at the holidays to serve with That's really awesome How about you? Do you have cool?  It was just a home But it's really cool because like my mother-in-law. She has butter churns the old butter churns from Yeah, that were handed down And we actually use those to make seven-day pickles in we don't churn butter But they're great crocs to make um seven-day pickles in so if you're ever wondering what to do something like that And then she has just some amazing um quilts and You know, she has one of the old like the hand-tied beds and stuff like that. So Yeah, she has one quilt that has initials that has all the initials around it And she's been trying to figure out who you know, each one of them is with like the dates and stuff. So Um, that's really cool Jenine says she has an old coffee grinder Belonged to a great grandmother. Oh really neat I have a postcard that a cousin sent me. Um my grandfather was born in webster new york and went to dartmouth and then after College, she thought he'd travel around the country a little bit and go to visit cousins in chicago and cousins in kansas And then oh, there's those neighbors from from webster that that moved to someplace called sienna fell california And i'll go see them and then i'll settle down and get a job. Well, when he went to sienna fell california He met a pretty girl there and that was all she wrote so, um he He's the one that didn't become a doctor. He became a marine engineer and operated the ferry boats He was an engineer on the ferry boats that used to run from marine county to san francisco before there was a golden gate bridge And so I have a postcard that somebody Had visited california and sent a postcard back home and said this is charles kerchers boat. I wrote on it this week And that's kind of fun. Yeah Okay, so steven says oh, he has some of his grandma's clothespans the no spring ones He used to put them together as a play. I remember those Those memories are so cool to have that. I know they were so much fun Yeah, I use um, I use this grandmother's bread box And you know, that's just something that you don't even see usually in a kitchen anymore, but um, I love stuff like that. It's awesome Okay, so for people watching do we have any final questions? We're all going to talk about what we have now oh quilts more quilts nice And I noticed somebody above too said you need to hook up with mary richardson. She is one of our big quilters that's um Very active on wiki tree and she talks in our weekend chat and stuff like that Her quilts are amazing. They were like, oh wait, mary needs to go meet mary now because I think she even has pictures of some of her quilting um on wiki tree itself on some of our space pages So it's always fun to see what other people are doing in their in their spare time. Yeah. Yeah, that's neat my husband's grandma grandmother and great-grandmother were quilters and Um, actually I do we do have a couple of quilts that they made so that's oh, that's awesome.  So You see a lot of a lot of quilting examples here are just really beautiful quilts I was there a couple weeks ago about a month ago and and saw the quilt trail and and barns with all the barns Oh, I still love the barns that and so many of them do that They put the big quilting square or multiple quilting squares up on the um of on the barns. I think that is so cool Yeah, it's really cool. Definitely not something you see back on the west coast. No, no Oh, no, that's cool. Yeah, he has his third great-grandmother's painting. So definitely, um Has some longevity to it Hopefully you have a really good way john up maintaining that and preserving it You know, it's it's really difficult when you come down to things like that like the paintings and whatnot Oh, shelly says her mom still crochets at 91 um I do occasionally, but I think by the time of 91, I won't have the patience for it I have a lot of patience, but um, yeah Unless it's something small I usually crochet and I give things to um Like the Ronald McDonald house for the babies You know all the quilts and the little hats and stuff like that I also asked you did ask about heirlooms. Um, I have some diplomas my husband is a professor And I'm a genealogist. So these family diplomas are kind of like the intersection of Education and genealogy. So I have my grandfather's diploma from Dartmouth. It's real sheepskin And all in latin, you know, carol um arthurum kosher and um, I have another It's huge um My grandmother's eighth grade diploma from tiburon grammar school Um, and it's got this really cool the the symbol of california with athena and the bear And it's just so cool. So we have a stairwell outside of our kitchen that I have I don't like 25 diplomas. I mean my kids mine my husbands, you know, my dads my grandparents um, it's really cool That's really neat It looks like we have another crocheter out in the audience She's gonna post it in discard a hat and scar for my stepdad. Well, that's really cool. Yeah Hey and anything that keeps your hands busy during the winter because it's either wiki tree research or If you need to break some crocheting or quilting those are good for you I'll say you one more thing. Um, this is a little christmas ornament. I made And these are acorn caps Um, that I made wool balls and I got to tell you about these where these acorn caps came from um in September I went back to visit my friend who sucked me into genealogy my friend barb She now lives in um outside of philly and so one day when I was there we took a drive up to A millstone new jersey, which is about five miles from new brunswick about five miles west of new brunswick and I I had used some map sites and my great great-grandfather james for her and owned property there and I was able to use mapping sites and um Whatever to figure out where the property is. It's now part of a big park That has a little nature trail. So barb and I went there. We're walking on this little nature trail and His name was james ahearn A variant of the name ahearn is heron There's a little pond there and what do you think I saw in that pond but a heron I mean, I think that was a message from him. You found the right place bear. This was it um And and so I picked up a bunch of acorns and I made them into little wool acorns That will be christmas gifts from my siblings this christmas That is so cool very creative steven houses grandmother's 1928 eighth grade graduation book and photos of her diploma I don't even have photos of my diploma anymore That was many chapters ago So We had a plumber in our house. I don't know a year or so ago Um, and I I think I wasn't home But the guy came down to the basement to look And I mean he made a comment to my husband. He says see guys are catholic I am too and and park is like, how do you know it's like and when mark told me the story It's like because he saw the diplomas, you know, ceo university blanche at high school So more in catholic high school. Yeah So anyway, that was kind of interesting but People can tell something about us from Let's hang it on the wall. Just casually walk through and pick up on that. Yeah Very very observant. Yes, definitely Okay, well, I think we're gonna wrap it up for the night because I know mary We have got people that have been beyond anxious to start on your brand And Yeah, they can officially start now So I want to thank you for coming on this evening and spending time with us and Thank you guys for all of you that are going to be working on mary's branches I know you'll have fun in the meantime too, but we still do appreciate all of the hard work Uh for anybody that wants to know more you go and check us out on wiki tree dot com And don't forget to like the videos subscribe if you haven't already to get alerts And we'll say good night. Thank you so much you guys.


Hello, I am Sung Joon Kim from NSRI. In his talk, I represent the misdefined open source crash reporter on in-depth secret analysis. First of all, I explain the rationale for the necessary of a crash reporter and each basic operation. Then, how it is applied to the open source crash reporter for Linux. Lastly, I will show several secret flaws found in the project. We often experience software crashes on various applications. Since advanced and enhanced testing techniques are widely adopted in the software development and testing period, the crash has been quite reduced compared to the past. However, with increasing the number of applications, the number of crashes is also increasing. And users may often experience those pop-up window when they meet software crashes. Fixing the crashes can be very time consuming and difficult. The crash occurs only under certain conditions and the program turn it immediately. And it is very difficult to reproduce it. In addition, it is very difficult to gather data about the crash itself and various environmental information to fix it. Fixing crashes is not limited to the developer group. Users may encounter crashes more often than developers do. However, users do not know how to provide this information to developers and there is no way to do this. A crash reporter is an amount automated tool for fixing crashes. The crash reporter collects crash information such as memory snapshots, and CPU registers at the moment the crash occurs and writes a crash reporter to the file. In addition, additional information such as memory map and execution environment information are collected and added to the file. The collected information is transmitted to the developer and they replace using the collected information and the code is prepared and applied to the latest release. The crash reporters have already been applied to various platforms. In Windows, it has been installed since Windows Vista has a service called Windows error reporting. Basically, it collects crash information and allows developers to debug it in the form of postmortem. After that, if a solution can be provided immediately, feedback is also provided. It is Windows error reporter GUI. Next, automatic bug reporting tool is a crash reporter tool running on the reddit linux series. In the same way, when a crash occurs, core dumps or metadata are collected and delivered to the server. Currently, AVRT automatic bug reporting tool covers applications written in C, C++, and Python languages. And cases where kernel loops occur. For instance, since reddit enterpracening 6.3 version, it covers a case where a kernel penny occurs when an additional package is installed. This figure shows the GUI of AVRT. Code stack and instruction pointer and signature are used as a technique to analyze the crashes and solve them. Code stack relies on code stack at the crash point to find unique bugs. And instruction pointer uses the crashes in instruction address to be deep crashes. And signatures adopt the program-specific characteristics to the code stack techniques for more effective trades. So in this talk, we perform a systematic analysis of the open source crash reporter. Most open source reporters, such as reddit, AVRT, or an opened press reporter, work very similarly. Here, we targeted event error tracker and examined its operation and core functions in detail. Later, we want to share the safety flaws we found. We enumerate the security suite and check what safety issues are occurring and through these security streets. Open the error tracker provides a feature for a crash reporter that is similar to the WER, windows error reporter, reporting, and AVRT automatic bug reporting tool. It collects system hands which last 30 seconds and other severe errors to the end users and delivers them to the open server. It also provides the ability to handle tunnel crashes or crashes in Linux containers. This talk focuses on the base operation during the crash. Open to error tracker consists of two parts. A port implemented in Python script and is called when a crash occurs in the corner. It intercepts a port dump including memory snapshot and CPU registers collected by the corner and gathers various metadata. After that, a UI for user consent is also provided that is essential to deliver the collected information to the server. Hoopsie was previously called a report team in the past. And as the name suggests, it is a demo that delivers information collected by a port to the server. This demo is also automatically installed when a desktop or server is installed. And it is sent to the open server base.opt.com. Now I will explain in the order of a port, Hoopsie, and this chain. A port is called immediately after a crash occurs by the corner's core pattern handler. The core pattern handler is specified in track C's corner core pattern and is as follows. The path to the approach script is followed by the pipe and that's the crash program's PID process ID and signal number and core file size are passed as arguments. Thereafter, the approach script handles the core dump received through the pipe and uses the PID to record process execution environment information and voice information. For reference, the crash information generated in the container is delivered to the approach script through socket IPC. This is a step for generating a crash report. The information collected in the previous step is saved in the barcrash directory. At this time, the file name is composed of executable names with absolute path and user ID and it has a crash file extension, that crash file extension. In addition, the approach script can exclude unwanted process crash report through the approach egonor.xml file. That user can define and modify in advance. The crash report basically consists of two parts, approach dump and metadata. Metadata includes waste list information related to the crash and package version and argument passed to the execution environment and the call information located in proc bar system and is retrieved as more advanced information. Actually, in proc bar system, the memory members of the process and the number of running threads and detailed information related to the corner are located. The core dumps are handed over from the corner to the airport including memory snapshots at the moment of crash, CPU register, etc. Post-modern debugging can be performed using that information. In addition, it is also possible to complete a step trace through retracer using the collected information. The Nexus tab is gained consent from users. The file created in the previous step has that crash file extension in barcrash directory and hence the user permissions of the program. After that, if there is a crash report newly created by the update notifier running on the OS, execute the app-apport-gtk program. The app-apport-gtk program is one you often see when it crashes or hangs. If the user approves, it creates a file with that un-modified extension in the barcrash directory. This is the process of executing the basic operation of the app-port. The Nexus tab is the operation of the Hoopsie demo. Hoopsie is a demo and performs the function of delivering crash reports with user consent to the open server. First, make sure you have the internet connection and do the job. If there is no internet connection, the job is inserted into a queue to process later. Once our internet connection is established, the crash report in key-value pairs is parsed and inserted into the Intimate Data Structure G-Hash table. After that, it encoded in binary JSON format for HTTP post-operation. This encoded data is transmitted to the lazy server in Ubuntu. CoreDump is often very large since it contains the contents of the memory snapshot. In order to prevent such data from being frequently transmitted to the server, a few of the first text signatures was introduced. Hoopsie first transfers the data without CoreDump to the Ubuntu server. At this time, the text signature which is generated by a refresher using CoreDump with needed debug symbols is generated and transmitted together. The text signature example is as follows. The server requests a CoreDump if there is no data of the same text signature, then it's compressed and transmitted using HTTP port. On the other hand, if the text signature already exists, the URL including the UUID value for the corresponding information is returned. The server puts the data received from the Hoopsie into the database, and if a CoreDump is requested, the CoreDump is sent from the Hoopsie is recued to the retracer. After retracing, the signature for the text trace is computed and recorded in the DB. The results are displayed on nr.ubuntu.com. So far, we have looked at the operation process in the order of a port, Hoopsie, this chain was focused on the delivery of the crash report. Now, I'll explain the core features and more in a port and Hoopsie. A port is said to prohibit running multiple instances at the same time. The reason is that several applications only crash at the same time, and if a series of crashes occur at once, it puts a lot of bird system burden on the system. So, they are pressed processed in sequence. To do this, it uses a firebase lock. If the lock is acquired, the port is performed mutually. Next, the port drops its privilege during the operation, partially dropping privilege and totally dropping privilege. At first, only the real UID user ID is changed, leaving the effective UID as it is. We call this as partially dropping privilege. The reason for changing only the real UID is that the app or port needs to maintain privileges during the operation, so that it can gather crash information. During the process, it also uses OS access function in Python that's available when the real UID is the same. Therefore, it leaves the effective UID and drops only the real UID. We call this as partially dropping privilege. Later, when writing the crash report to a file, it must be saved with the user permissions of the crashed program. At this time, both effective UID and real UID are finally dropped. We call this as totally dropping privilege. After partially dropping privileges, the app or it collects better data and core dump. After that, the app or it performs totally dropping privileges and then writes out the gathering data to the file in barcrash directory. The core functions of the Hoopsie are shown as follows. First, Hoopsie needs to detect events in the barcrash directory and it needs to detect changes in network connectivity. In addition, because the crash file needs to be transmitted periodically to live an event loop which is framed for the convenience it's used. Second, the data composed of key value pairs in the crash file is converted into an immediate data structure. And this is finally encoded to the binary JSON format. At this time, UTF-8 verification is also being performed for effective binary JSON coding. For example, the library for binary JSON uses the archived MongoDB feed driver that is too old and has not been updated anymore. And thus, some secret issues are found in this code snippet. Finally, we use libcurl and it, the Hoopsie uses libcurl to send data to the daisy server with SSL verified peer option. Thus, it may cannot upload the crash report to different URL than the daisy server. Next, I'd like to share the secret issues, several secret issues I found while looking at the operation process of the airport and Hoopsie. There are four security tricks. First, the sticky bit is set in the barcrash directory. In the directory, there are crash data with that crash file extension and that upload bar extension to trigger Hoopsie and that lap file extension to mutually operate the report. A attacker can easily access the directory barcrash directory and these files can be specially crafted or manipulated to perform a malicious attack. Second, attackers can easily trigger Hoopsie and a port at any time. A port can be called when attackers create a dummy process and send a signal that results in quantum action such as set fault. Hoopsie can be activated by creating an upload file in barcrash as above. Third, separately dropping privileges can cause time attacks by attackers. Finally, a port leads user-defined configuration files with root privileges. The following security issues were all found based on previous tricks. There are three types of issues. The first is it can prevent core dumping by disabling the airport operation. Next, it can prevent the unloading of generated reports to the server. Last, it can dump the pressure port of a previous learning process so that it can be read by the general user. We will look at these issues in detail. There are three ways to prevent core dumping. First is the way to use the word writable lock file. As mentioned earlier, lock is used as a way to make a port to work mutually. The path of the lock file is located in the barcrash directory. If attackers acquire the lock in advance and do not miss it, core dumping can be prevented. The second is the way to send a six-stop signal to the airport. A user cannot send a six-stop signal to a privileged process, but this is possible if the process has been set real UID to users want. As explained earlier, while performing partially dropping privileges for OS access function in Python, it uses the real UID as a lawyer to the same level as the user. At this time, attackers can send a six-stop signal to the airport. Since the process acquires the lock first, sending a six-stop result in disabling core dump. Third, it is a way to prevent core dumping by generating an unhandled exception. Before writing the information dumped in a port to the file, check the contents specified in the apport.ignore.examl file. At this time, if a file type not defined in apport.ignore.examl file is used. Unhandled exception occurs because exceptions are not handled. This process also disables core dumping. Next is the way to prevent HoopSea from sending crash reports to the server. There are two methods to do this. G-HashTable is used as intermediate data structure. When using G-HashTable insert function in G-HashTable library, there is no account measure for collision. When a collision occurs, the current value is replaced with the new one, and the old value remains in memory. To solve this, we need to provide the value distree function when creating a G-HashTable. But HoopSea didn't do that. If the attacker repeated crash keyword pairs with the same key in the crash report, memory inversion occurs. In the following method, a special crafted crash report can trigger an integer overflow and it leads to a heap overflow. The method for triggering integer overflow must satisfy the following conditions. In key value pairs, the length of the value must be greater than 0 and is less than 1KB. The reason the value is less than 1KB is that uploading is possible only when the key value is less than 1KB. If it does not exist in the file list. The length of the key must be greater than the sum of the lengths of the value and 7 in U into 32 max value. Here, 7 is the size inserted for padding as in memory. When tried to try to try to unload the crash report configured in this way, the integer overflow occurs and additional memory needs to be allocated but it cannot. At this time, when the data is memory copied in a small memory area, a heap overflow occurs and HoopSea will be dead by itself. When memory is overturned, the function of all function pointer existing in G main context of GLIP is also overturned but the structure of the memory allocator is already been damaged and making further explosion difficult. Finally, the information related issues. I would like to introduce an issue that causes information leakage by pausing the execution of a port and changing the target of the crash report to be generated. As the crash report generation target is changed from the original program is queued with the user permissions to approve through a privileged process. The reporter of the privileged process can be generated with the general user permissions. The attack plan is as follows. First, the attacker creates an original process and sends a SEG4 signal to it. Since SEG4 contains an action, SEG4 signal contains an action that creates a quarter. The report activated immediately so that the report is activated immediately. After that, it executes the operation of the report and pauses it immediately. Since the PID of the target process to generate the crash report must be the same, that of the original process that has been that. The dummy process is created and killed repeatedly. PID increases monetically and when it exceeds the maximum value PID makes value it newly starts in 300. The repetition is going on until just before the PID of the original process. Next, start or restart the target process. Finally, if you continue the effort, attacker continue the effort that has been paused before a crash report for the target process is generated in the bar crash directory. In the first step, a new way to run a port and post it right away is sent on SEG4's tab signal right after the dropping privilege described earlier. Finally, just before the dropping privilege, it reads prop PID status file to get the UID of the target process. Attackers can use tools such as Inotify to detect changes to the status file. After the above file event, a port can be paused by sending a SEG4's tab signal. In the second step, in order to make the PID of the original process and the PID of the target process the same, the dummy process is created and killed repeatedly until just before showing the same PID. However, it is difficult to match the PID of the target process to the original process exactly because someone can be crafted during the system operation. To solve this, we propose the concept of PID pull. It contains a number of PID of the original process. It increases the chance of showing the same PID between original process and target one. To make a PID pull, we should spawn multiple ports. But as mentioned earlier, spawning multiple ports is prohibited by checked lock function when the port starts up. Fortunately, we can achieve using a previous issue about WorldWriteableLockFile. First, we make a lock file in var crash and activate the port and tab the port. After that, we can remove that lock file in var crash directory. These tabs can spawn multiple ports. Then the repetition is performed until the result is nearly approaching the original one instead just before the same PID comes up. After that, when starting or restarting the target process, it succeeds if the same PID exists in the PID pull. Here, we assume the target process as HoopSea because HoopSea is a privileged process and we can start at any time due to the previous vulnerability. Finally, if the same PID is spawned in the PID pull and the sig continue signal is transmitted to the upward, a report on the running target process is created with the user permissions. Let's check the video. This is POC script. You can see the var crash directory is empty. And you see it is started. You can see the PID pull. There are five items in the PID pull currently a spawning dummy process. Yeah, maybe dummy process is our spawn.  The fake crash file is loading to the HoopSea demo. As you can see, HoopSea has been killed. Successfully exploit. Last time, 173 seconds. And let's check the crash report. You can see the HoopSea. HoopSea's crash report. This is metadata. And this is memory map of HoopSea demo. This is query done. Yeah, that's it. This is conclusive. Crash report terms are more popular than popular. But it helps it have some security challenges. As you can see the disabled quarrel dumping or unloading for everyone and read a part of crash dump of previous line courses. In May, we just in dose of tag and information is quoted tag. So we should pay more attention to audit existing design and implementation of the crash reports. Thank you.


Hello everyone, if you missed the latest newsletter, if you're not subscribed to my free newsletter, I just wanted to tell people about this exciting announcement with Balanced. If you remember, it's an organization we helped create to actually take this amazing life-changing, life-saving information and put it into practice by getting healthier menus in schools and hospitals and other institutions. And now they just came out with this community advocacy program, resource guide, toolkits, all sorts of great free stuff you can use to make your community healthier. And so I have a link to that. I also, my latest newsletter, talked about what's coming up in the next nine weeks here at NutritionFacts.org, all the new topics. You can watch all those videos right now streaming for donation, text-inductible donation to NutritionFacts. Or you can just wait to see what's coming down the pike. I got the new videos and all sorts of stuff. Updates on coffee, chlorella, chip program. As you can see, I'm in the seas in terms of what topics I'm covering as I go through the alphabet. If you are not subscribed, you can go to NutritionFacts.org, click the subscribe button. Sign up for the free newsletter so you won't miss anything. I'm just so excited about all the new stuff coming up. And so I will hopefully talk to you soon. I also announced my Q&As, but I already finished those for the month. So next month my Q&As are July, I believe July 26th, July 26th, check it out on Facebook Live and YouTube Live to get your questions answered.


Hi, this is Dr. Don. I'm going to take a few minutes and show you how to solve this histogram problem from my stats lab using StatCrunch. Now I'm not going to get into the details and theory of how you construct a histogram. I've got another video on that. Here I just want to show you the mechanics of how I would approach this to use StatCrunch and cheat a little bit to use a simple calculator for some things that are faster. The question is, we've got this data set here of 20 patients. That's the number of days they were hospitalized for you to construct a histogram, a frequency distribution and a frequency histogram, I should say, using six classes. That's important. And then we need to describe the shape of the histogram and we'll talk about that. One of the things that jumps out at me when I look at this problem is that in addition to the histogram, we've got to give them some other intermediate information. They want the class, and that means the class limits, the lower limit and the upper limit. They want the frequency, which would be the number of patients that fall into that class and then the midpoint of that class. So to start, I would just click on the little rectangle here and open in StatCrunch. And I've already done that. And over here on the right side, I've got the data in the column that's labeled Variable 1. First thing we need to do in order to do this is to find the range of the data and the minimum and maximum values is what we need to get that range if we do it manually. With a small data set, you could probably inspect it, but let me show you how you would do it just so using StatCrunch in case you have a bigger data set. We're going to start with going to Summary Stats. Here we go. And our data is in column 1, Variable 1. And the statistics we need, I'm going to scroll down here. I'm going to get the range, the min and the max. And one of the things I like to do is to store it in a data table. Makes it easier to do things. And then I'm going to hit Compute. And drag that out or just close that. And there you can see there's the column, the Variable 1. The range is 11. Min is 3. The max is 14. 14 minus 3 is 11. That's how you get that. So we know the minimum value is 3. I'm just going to click over there and go ahead and put 3 in there. The first thing we need to do is to get the bin width. That's how we will determine what these class limits are. The way we do that, we take the range and we divide it by the number of classes, which is 6 in this case. Now, you can do this in StatCroach if you want using data, compute, create an expression. I find that to take more time to be clunky. I like just to use a simple calculator. Here I'm going to use my Windows calculator. And I'm going to take the range, which would be 11. And I want to divide that by number of classes, which is 6, and hit equal. That gives me 1.833. The standard way of coming up with a bin width when you're using integer data like this is to round up up to the next integer. So 1.83333 becomes 2 for my bin width. So now that I know the bin width, I can just add it. So 3 plus 2 is 5, 5 plus 2 is 7, 7 plus 2 is 9, 9 plus 2 is 11, 11 plus 2 is 13. So those are my lower limits for each of my bins for the upper limits. Remembering that we've got integer data here and that a data point cannot fall into two bins. In this case, that just means this would be 4 for my upper class limit. Then I can add my 2 again. 6, 10, and so up to 14. So those are my class lower limits and upper limits. Now we're going to get the actual frequencies and here I'm going to jump back into stat crunch. I'm going to go to graph histogram and then pick my data column, which is variable 1. And we want to go down here our bins. They start at the minimum value, so that's 3, and the bin width is 2, and we just click compute. And so here is our histogram we need. So I can hover and see that my frequency is 3, and I just put 3 in there. My next frequency is 8, 8, and so on until I complete it. It goes up and it says the last one has a frequency of 1. Finally, we need to get the midpoints of the class. So we just take the upper limit and the lower limit, add those together to get 7 and divide by 2, which gives me 3 points. Now you can do that for each one of those, but because we know the bin width is 2, we can just add 2 each time. 5.5, 7.5, all the way up to 13.5. So that's it. Here's our histogram, and we just compare that to the answer options. When you actually go through this, they'll give you some ones to pick. And you just pick the ones that matches what you actually have here. And then final thing is this skewed data, or uniform data, or normally distributed data, it's skewed. Remember, we got this tail over here toward the upper limit. So that's got an upper skew, a positive skew. I hope this helps.