A popular resistance broadcast of hot news out of the region. In partnership with Black Alliance for Peace, Haiti America's team, Code Pink, Common Frontiers, Council on Hemispheric Affairs, Friends of Latin America, Interreligious Task Force in Central America, Massachusetts Peace Action, and Task Force on the Americas. We broadcast Thursdays at 4.30pm Pacific, 7.30pm Eastern, right here on YouTube Live, including channels for the Convocouch, Popular Resistance, and Code Pink. Post broadcast recordings can be found at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Telegram, redindymedia.com, and now under podcasts at popularresistance.org. Today's episode, Salah 2023. Latin American integration includes the voices of the people, and I'm so excited for all of you to meet our guest and my good friend, and human rights solidarity activist Alejandro Rusconi. He is Secretary of International Relations for the Evita Movement. He is joining us live from Buenos Aires, Argentina. We'll have all of you meet him in just a moment. Let me give you some background as to what has happened in Buenos Aires earlier this week. So let's start with a brief description of what Salah is. It was founded in 2011. It's known as the Community of Latin American in Caribbean states. It is a multilateral group of 33 countries from across the Western Hemisphere that excludes Canada and the United States. It was created to be an alternative forum for Latin American countries. And inaugural leaders, such as Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, envision the group as a counterweight to the Washington based organization of American States, OAS, which they viewed as dominated by the United States.  Its stated goals are to promote regional integration and cooperation. Salah represents over 600 million people living in the hemisphere of the Americas. The seventh summit of Salah leaders was held Tuesday, January 24 in Buenos Aires and hosted by Salah President Kurt Tempori, Alberto Fernandez, who is the current president of Argentina. The 111 point declaration of Buenos Aires from the Community of Latin America and the Caribbean, describe how effects of COVID-19, climate change, and the war in Ukraine have rippled across the region. Quote, we express our concern that several countries emerged from the pandemic with higher levels of public debt. Additionally, the seventh summit witnessed two first. One at the invitation of President Fernandez, the United States was invited and sent US special presidential advisor for the Americas, Christopher Dodd. The other second, the other first was that the summit was preceded by a joint proposal of social and trade union organizations. With the presence of about 300 leaders of social organizations, unions and popular movements from all over the region. The meeting was a forum to discuss the most relevant issues affecting different countries in the context of this conference of heads of state and government, which began on the 24th. So everyone I'm really, really excited to have this conversation today with all of you and for all of you to meet Alejandro Buscone, and again who's joining us from Argentina for this episode, welcome Alejandro. Good afternoon. Thank you. I feel proud to be in this program with you, Terry, your colleague and a fighter for peace in the world and we have worked together in different scenarios in Bolivia and other countries of our Americas. I'm going to speak about the meaning of the social select that had these first steps. This social select was incorporated here in Buenos Aires, working shoulder to shoulder with select as Terry was explaining this is an entity for cooperation and integration among the states of Latin America and the Caribbean without the presence of the United States in Canada. This grassroots and social movements from Argentina, and we can highlight the role of the three unions main unions of Argentina, the movements of the after the sentence and diversities, the representatives of the collectives and the different minorities the LGBT community and also organizations that work for gender issues, we will have the capacity of gathering and debating. Time was insufficient. However, what we discussed precisely first have the possibility of creating this space of social select with brothers and sisters who came from different countries from Brazil, from Paraguay, from Panama, from Colombia, from Venezuela, from Chile. And we could discuss several issues and prepared a document and we want to propose an agenda, the agenda of social movements. Select needs to be open and pay attention to what social movements say we have a broad agenda we defend democracy and defend peace as well. But we defend a participatory democracy for the movements democracy is not just going to the polls and vote. Democracy instead is present in the different realms of public life in having the possibility of debating and discussing and debating programs. We have a broad agenda, but we also pay attention to the situation that our continent is facing. How it has become evident that the inequality is so big here in our hemisphere and this became evident with the pandemic and the unequal distribution of vaccines. So it was important to make clear our positions about sovereignty about the issue of Cuba about self determination of the peoples about Nicaragua that has been systematically attacked against the blockades we express ourselves against the attacks targeting Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba. For the social movements these items of the agenda are fundamental. We defend this idea of sovereignty and non interference. We reiterated our position about the Malvinas Island and we say, let's put a halt to colonialism, the colonialism that still takes place in islands in the Caribbean. We want Puerto Rico to stop being a colony and so we can recover our Malvinas Island and the islands of the South Atlantic. We have had a proactive position about what has happened in Haiti. Haiti has a painful history and Haiti, we need to bear in mind it was the first liberated state in our Americas. Haiti sacrificed lives and resources and put them at the disposal of Simón Bolívar. Haiti was present during the construction of this dream of the liberator Simón Bolívar. We feel the pain of Haitians and we want to revert the policies that have damaged Haiti. The agenda is broad but we were able to hand in a document to the president pro tempore of CELAC, the new president, Ralph González. He committed with us to work jointly with the movement and he has said that he has always worked with social movements so he'll be joining us in this struggle. Having the possibility of speaking to President Lula and Ralph González, Lula who has resisted a coup d'etat attempt on the last January 8th, because we saw in Brazil an attempt of destruction of the three institutional branches of government. You saw the attack against the Congress and the court. We are fighting for peace. We oppose fascism and coup attempts that became a reality in Brazil. The Bolsonaro and his followers did not accept the victory of Lula. They didn't concede and the reactionary right-wingers wanted to make a coup d'etat but the CELAC has expressed against these attacks and these coup d'etats attempts. And we have waived the flags of peace through the statement that was made by CELAC on January 24th, 2014 in Cuba when America Latina was declared a zone of peace and we are committed to fight in this regard. Thank you so much. I have a number of questions to ask. You've given me so many thoughts. First of all, I guess I should just explain to the audience that González, who is the President of St. Vincent's Grenadines, is that's who the new incoming President is. I think our audience is aware it went from Mexico to Argentina and now St. Vincent's Grenadines, which is really, really exciting, Caribbean island state. That's just terrific news. Regarding Haiti, this, I believe and correct me if I'm wrong, that one of the declarations coming from this CELAC 7 summit was to review the UN position in Haiti, is that correct? To review or support it? Yes. First of all, for us, it is, we feel proud of seeing Rafa González in that role. As always, Latin America is mentioned and the Caribbean is not mentioned as if there were separated items and we commit these type of mistakes. Sometimes in the maps, we don't see the presence of the Malvinas islands or the Caribbean islands. The lesser anthills are left outside as if they didn't exist. Today, we feel proud that Ralph is the President Pro Temporary of the CELAC and I want to clarify the solidarity with the Haitian resistance. The resolution, there is resolution number four of the social CELAC says no to foreign interference in Haiti. A hundred and nineteen years ago, the victory of the Haitian revolutions gave place to the first Republic of Haiti and put an end to the colonialism of France back then. Haitians are facing a remarkable crisis and they are facing the threat of a new military occupation by the United States that is promoted openly by Canada. Today, they are fighting against a gross inequality that is bringing benefit just to an elite with the support of IMF, the multilateral banks and the imperial and neocolonial powers and condemns a majority of Haitians to leave in infrahuman conditions. It is demanded the resign of the de facto government, a government that was not elected by Haitians that has been imposed by these neocolonial powers and we have called upon the respect of the rights of the Haitian population and the international law. We as social CELAC are calling the governments and the peoples of CELAC to recognize as a regional heritage the freedom contributions and the human rights contributions related to the anti-slave and anti-racist fight of the Haitian people. And to assume the call of different popular social organizations and trade unions to reject in a patent way these new attempts of occupation against Haiti. All interference as it was demanded in October to the ministers of foreign affairs of CELAC and the European Union, we want the governments of CELAC and of international community to pay attention to what the Haitians have to say. The solution to the domestic problems of Haiti is being promoted by the Haitians themselves and must be respected without any kind of interference from foreign governments of powers. Haiti belongs to the Haitians and they are the ones to solve their problems. It is important to pay attention that the de facto government of Haiti are trying to justify a new intervention with precisely the justification of the previous occupations in the island. That had the purpose of weakening the Haitian institutions and permitted the outbreak of cholera and several cases of sexual violations and human rights were revealed. It is necessary to control the armed bands that they are the ones that are promoting those gangs. So they give the weapons to these gangs and then they say they're going to control them. This de facto government. So we as CELAC have expressed in this resolution that we call upon the government to support the rights of the Haitian people, ensuring the non-interference of foreign governments of powers, the end of this de facto government and this office of the UN that is supporting this de facto government. It is necessary to include reparation due to the nefarious effects of cholera and the crimes committed by previous occupations. It is necessary to restore the gold reserves that were stripped from Haiti by the U.S. and other powers and reparations to be paid by France because Haiti had to pay an obscene debt in favor of the slave owners. It is necessary to stop the massive expel of migrants and the massive violations of human rights during deportation procedures. And it is necessary to understand that there is no possible transition to anything different in Haiti with an imposed regime. We say in this resolution, long live to Haiti. Long live to a free and sovereign Haiti. Wonderful. We always leave, you know, it's not uncommon when we talk about Latin American and the Caribbean to not mention Haiti. And it's something that many, many of us and organizations are guilty of. And so I'm just so happy that you have written in support of Haiti and for their sovereignty and for self-determination. We've done, for our audiences aware, we've done a couple of recent episodes on Haiti, particularly one in, I want to say October of November when there was an overt threat of U.S. intervention, that inner, that threat of interventionism is still there. And so it's really wonderful Alejandro that social Salak has lifted up the voices of the Haitian people and is defending their sovereignty and independence. Puerto Rico as well. I wonder, can we talk about a couple of things that came out of the seventh summit. I have a list of things. You mentioned you talked with Lula and Argentina and Brazil re-engaged for the first time with Lula as the president once again of Brazil. And one of the things that came out of that Argentina Brazil meeting was the discussion of introducing a currency between a common currency between the two countries. Okay, those two countries are, are one another's largest trading partners I believe so this is quite significant that that there's going to be a common currency. Is this, I guess my question for you is, one, what do you what do you make of it and two, a lot of us are thinking that this is going to be a trial run a practice for creating a hemispheric currency or at least a Salak currency. Yes. We, with Brazil, have a very important common border we have a common history, we may have had some differences, they were invaded in the past by Portugal we were invaded by the Spaniards, but they are a sister nation that has fought for independence like us. And I always highlight something that happened in Argentina, a meeting between President Néstor Kirchner and President Lula da Silva after Lula and Kirchner took office. They had held the meeting in Buenos Aires and they created a document this is this was back in 2003 back then. We called that moment the consensus of Buenos Aires. We had a Mercosur already running, but a Mercosur that was liberal, that was born imitating the, the free trade agreement of North America. These were the times of the Washington consensus. Néstor Kirchner and Lula da Silva through this document that was called the consensus of Buenos Aires attempted to change the paradigm of relations and attempted to change the Mercosur because they understood that Mercosur needs to point at social Mercosur, not just at a commercial Mercosur that had been implemented from the North trying to imitate this free trade agreement area of the U.S. But with Lula and Néstor Kirchner, we had a possibility afterwards of creating UNASUR and then this lack, respectively, tools for processes of integration. Having a common currency is very important for us and it's very important that initially to do this with Brazil, but yes, it needs to be extended throughout the continent and work on the remarkable asymmetries that are present in the region. Because we have countries with different types of economies, but how can we take them into account for this? This is the kickoff of something excellent of a great initiative towards regional currency. So that we don't need to use the dollar as currency to exchange goods and services with other states in the region. We need to have our own currency. We need to promote peace with social justice, with good living conditions, but we need to establish the reduction of poverty and of extreme poverty, strengthen food production, organic food. And this has to do with creating our own markets. Also, this is related to the currency. This is a value unit for exchange that needs to be created by our governments, our governments that represent the interests of our peoples. This is so important and it was highlighted in the final draft of the document of the Social Select because this has been a step forward. And we are speaking about this 25 days after Lula has taken office after an attend coup. This is going to strengthen the region. This is going to strengthen our countries and the living conditions of our peoples. So there's a potential de-dollarization of Latin America and the Caribbean coming, which we're seeing potentially across the globe. And it's, I mean, it's a reinforcement of sovereignty again. And that's like the key word throughout the Americas, especially since all of these legislative and presidential elections that occurred since October of 2020. Sovereignty, national sovereignty, natural resource sovereignty, currency sovereignty. That's like the theme. And this really seems to me what Salak is focused on creating. And again, I just want to say how exciting it was this week to see a social Salak and that an organized social movement, labor movement body was created and integrated with the governmental heads of state summit. That is, that is just huge to have the people's voices represented, formally represented and heard. And that's just such an important integration along with economic regional integration. One of the things that you mentioned was a Latin America zone, a peace zone, a nuclear free zone. I was really pretty exciting to see in that regard. Gustavo Petro, the president of Columbia, mentioned that Columbia would not be sending military aid to Ukraine. And for the audience, Columbia is a NATO global partner and very in that manner, very closely aligned with the United States. So this was a really strong and important statement, and it was done in the presence of the United States at the Salak summit. So there's, to me, there's a really clear vision in place that is being shared with the United States so that nothing is going to happen behind the US is back. But that was bold. Bold and pretty exciting for him to say. So maybe we should talk about him saying he would not, Columbia would not be sending military aid to Ukraine, and then how that reflects on Salak's vision of creating a peace zone. Well, we in social select, we also wave that flag. And we with what we have also said is to dismantle the military bases located in our continent. Columbia has a lot of them strategically pointing to the border with Brazil and Venezuela, as if they were enemies, and they are brothers and sisters. It was a policy promoted by the Colombian previous government. It is important not to send weapons to any country. We need to send doctors as Cuba does. And as Fidel said, in the year when Néstor Kirchner took office, there was a ceremony here in the Faculty of Law of the University of Buenos Aires while others send weapons. We send humanitarian missions and doctors. We need to change that paradigm. And this year, 200 years anniversary of the Monroe Doctrine is taking place. From the Social Select, we have drafted a document. We are going to work on an international campaign against the Monroe Doctrine that continues to be present in the hegemonic thinking of superpowers. And we say no against this shipment of weapons. We need to put halt to the arms development industry in the world promoted by the United States. And that is why we need to work and continue working, promoting proactive policies, peace campaigns throughout the world. As you were saying, Terry, about Gustavo Petro, that represents the interest, the true interest of the Colombian people of this multicultural and multi-color people of Colombia. We are very happy to see what he's doing for the benefit of his people through his policies, his policies of human rights, how the peace process has moved forward. And to give place to everyone on the table and not sending weapons to Ukraine is a very important decision. And I want to clarify that Argentina is also a member of the NATO, not a full member. We are very sad of that. We are not full member because we have a conflict. We have a conflict with Great Britain about the Malvinas Islands, what they call a conflict. For us, it is a security policy because in the times of the neoliberal government of many, work was made to become a full member of the NATO. And there was an opposition of Great Britain due to the conflict about the Malvinas Islands. And that is why to be a member of the NATO is terrible because of the policies they promote. Well, it's a tool for perfectly blunt taking over the planet. I have to say, I forgot about the situation with Argentina and NATO. And I guess in a backhanded way, thank goodness there is that controversy over the Malvinas. Argentina is not a full NATO member. And so I guess a backhanded blessing in disguise over that conflict. Let's talk a little bit about, gosh, I've got, let me pick something here. I've got tons of notes. I just, I guess I would say, as for your opinion on this, to me reading the document that came out of the seventh summit, the formal Salah summit, it sounded it read not dissimilar to the document produced in Mexico City, September of 2021, which was a pretty exciting summit because it was the reconvening of Salah by the President of Mexico after a courier pause. So it seems like this seventh summit is basically reinforcing what came out of the 2021 summit and moving forward. So one of the things that seemed to me in 2021 and again has come through in several ways with this most recent summit is how the global north's neglect of the global south and in our conversation, Latin America and the Caribbean during the pandemic, the lack of resources that were given by the United States to its own neighbors. There seems to me to be now a humanitarian unity within Latin America and the Caribbean. Unlike what has existed in the past, in the past, there's been political, economic, social unification, but this seems to be a really deep humanitarian link among nations right now that has pushed a lot of other differences aside. Yes, it is like you're saying, and we need to highlight the role of solidarity when catastrophes have taken place in our countries. What happened in Cuba when Cuba had the problem near Baradero, when there was a problem in the third more electrical plant, but the first help that arrived was from Mexico and Venezuela, and there has always been solidarity among these countries. So CELAC is a mean for cooperation and we need to strengthen it, but it is a mechanism where consensus are necessary. Sometimes some decisions are taken and we, the militants, see some of the decisions as weak because we want to see, but we understand the diversity among the different countries and the different opinions of the different governments, because we have some governments that are more oriented towards people, some others that are socialist and some others that are even neoliberal, but we have seen that plurality has been present and there has been a unified position against blockades and the mechanism for meetings that CELAC has is very useful. So we have an annual meeting among presidents every January when the president protempore changed from AMLO to Alberto Fernández and now he's in the hands of the Prime Minister of San Vincent and the Granadines. So this is important for us to have quick evolutions and changes of dynamics and in social CELAC we are trying to do that, to work in different countries. This was an initial meeting, we need to promote new meetings, we need to visit the president protempore, but we need to hold meetings in all of our countries of the social CELAC, in Colombia, in Venezuela and Cuba. So within our 33 countries we need to all be hosts and promote agendas related to specific topics because the document expressed diversity and this diversity needs to be developed in the different discussions among the brothers and sisters. So our 33 countries need to provide contributions and promote deeper integration, we are open to that, to discuss with everyone and also to see the different expressions of solidarity. Sometimes I mean governments do not execute this solidarity that is happily proposed by our peoples. So creating this integrated regional solidarity. So this would be social and economic solidarity and integration, which is fantastic and I agree with you, there is, and again, since all these elections and you and I witnessed quite a few between October of 2020 all the way through to the Brazil elections this past fall, is that it really people did vote for sovereignty. And there is, as a result, a spectrum of economic policies they voted for. And it is like one step to the center of left social democratic all the way to revolutionary economic and social change and there is a spectrum of left of center governments and to me I think that's that's actually really exciting because it shows to you what's possible, and, and it's allowing this move forward, but regarding social and economic integration, how does this affect the block the select block, interfacing with the European Union, Russia, China or Asia Pacific, and also in doing so, are we really seeing the deconstruction of the organization of American states and the full emergence of select and it was really, really curious and to some of us a little bit disappointing in a way to see the United States invited, but for the rest of the hemisphere to unite and move on you certainly wouldn't want to do anything, you know, behind the back of the wall it's the largest military power. But it's, it's, it's really fascinating what appears to be unfolding. So, can we, can we comment on on how this social and economic integration may present itself in relationship with the EU Russia and China. And then let's talk about the OAS a bit. Yes. Yes, first, in the analysis that you carry out and the excitement on the changes in the governments in the region first, we had a process, we call it the decade that was one when we had a popular governments throughout the region. The Chavez government that took place, then Lula, Keith and Korea, and Celaya, Lugo, Cuba, that was the beacon and lighting us in 2006, the victory of Daniel Ortega and Nicaragua, all these governments were the ones that promoted the creation of Celac in 2011. And what happened afterwards? Because we cannot forget how these governments disappeared. We saw the coup that took place in Honduras and the institutional coup in Paraguay, Dilma in Brazil, also targeted with a coup. So, before weapons were used to remove heads of states and government, but now they have used the legislative branches of power or the law fair. Justice, the issue of Lula, what occurs with Paul denounces he went to prison and now he's the president again. But to be president again, Lula had to face 500 days in the prison because they created the conditions, the opponents for Bolsonaro to take power. Bolsonaro was not able to win an election. So, they had to remove Dilma's government and send Lula to prison to make possible the right wing to assume power. And who was promoting that? The US, the North. And Trump, Bolsonaro, they're similar, as you may notice. And again, we see a new precomposition in the continent. We saw the victory of AMLO back in 2018 in Mexico. And Chile was recovered Peru, even if Peru is facing a coup that Argentina also again had a leftist government in Brazil. Now, you see a recomposition, a recovery with popular governments that are similar to their people. We need to be careful with the relationship with the European Union because they keep having this thinking in mind that we need to produce food and products to feed them because SILAC for them is the largest reservoir of the world. We have common resources, resources that belong to the countries of the Americas. But since they see that we have natural resources, they want to say they protect those resources. We see the policy towards the Guarani aquifer. There are military bases of the US there because this is the largest potable water reservoir of the world. So we heard the statement by the commander of the Southern Command. And these statements about the lithium reserves. So we need to be very careful. We need to protect our resources. And we need to produce elements with added value. Not just having them taking away the products that we produce our food because they keep having in mind this colonial policy. And we need to also take into account our social, labor and economic conditions. We need to make sure to have decent jobs. That's the essential to have a decent life for our citizens. So our states need to promote opportunities for decent jobs so that people can have a decent life in their different dimensions. Having health education and having the possibility of contributing for the benefit and the well-being of our nations. We need to have an effective protection of the labor conditions for our citizens and a salary that need to be guaranteed by the member states. We can also mention the BRICS. The role of the BRICS that is broadening with the incorporation of Argentina among other countries. BRICS-ELAC should be an axis of cooperation. Economic cooperation with our 33 states. Because the block negotiation is more convenient. We are stronger. We say the countries of the Mercosur. For example, countries such as Uruguay that want unilateral free trade agreements. That's not convenient because if we negotiate alone, we are defeated. We need to negotiate as a block to impose conditions. We don't want them imposing conditions upon us. That's not good. We need to try to protect our regional economies. What we see is that they come and take away our agricultural products. We need to recognize the plurinationality, the plurality of nations. And something that concerns us a lot is the issue of human trafficking. It's necessary to punish the crimes related to sexual trafficking and human trafficking. We are working in our countries to prevent that. That has to do with creating good conditions for labor. What we see is that in our borders, we see labor exploitation against minorities. And in that sense, we need to develop coherent policy to bring a solution. So when we speak about human trafficking, we are not talking about just sexual exploitation. We are talking about labor exploitation. We have seen that people are taken to working conditions of semi-slavery, paying wages to them that only allow them to survive. So we see commonly this exploitation taking place. So you've brought up, I just want to digress a minute on two things because these are two subjects that have come up on the recent previous episodes. One, we did an episode on law fair regarding Argentina and your vice president. And in that same episode, we talked about the law fair situation in Peru that removed President Castillo from office. And so just to reference that, that is how politicians, how state leaders are removed from office now. And it's very tricky. It's very insidious. And it has been, unfortunately, successful. And the other thing is regarding labor. And of course right now in Honduras with these, what do they call them, the Zettais. We talked about this last week, actually, with the private cities and having labor, non-sovereign labor. The labor pool is under the guidance and law of the corporations running these cities versus the actual nation that the people are born and raised in. So that's a big, you know, the labor thing is potentially huge, particularly as the United States and NATO really push for a full neoliberal privatization model. And that's why I think, you know, this reconvening of Salak in 2021 and seeing it move forward so powerfully is so, so important to push back against what the global north wants. And also still using Latin America and the Caribbean, as you mentioned, as colonial labor and colonial, and for colonial resource extraction, whether it be minerals or food and the need to develop economies with products of added value and finished products. In that regard, let's talk a little bit about China because China, the President of Mexico has said, and he made reference to this in the prior Salak summit, and he said it again, although he was not, he sent his foreign minister to Buenos Aires this year, he did not go. But he is really promoting regional economic development and regional production as a hemisphere, and using Salak as that tool. And he flat out said we don't need to be importing as a region, you know, from other parts of the world, or we don't need to be importing as much. And to me, I interpret that as a pushback on Asia Pacific China trade and China and perhaps even, you know, China's influence in the hemisphere of the Americans. I think that what is imported from China, many things are imported that we can produce. That is why what we need to have is a policy of strengthening of our industries, our own industries to be able to compete in a quality of conditions. Because we have seen examples of this in Argentina with the fabric, with the textile industry. We have developed the handcraft textile industry and the industry, and when we see the different conditions of labor in China and in Argentina, when we see so many garments imported, we ended up having our workshops destroyed. The imported products ended up destroying national production. That is why we need to have barriers to protect our production. So if we can manufacture piece, and sometimes you have things that are elaborated with raw materials, but what you see is that there is a lower cost in terms of labor in other countries, and that ends up destroying our markets. And what we need to have is to have strengthening of our own productions. We need to replace all these imported products with a national production, as it is taking place. And let me give you an example. The example of Venezuela, for example. They are trying to promote the domestic production of food. That's fantastic. The family gardens, that's a need to be met. We need to be able to grow our own food, not just to import everything, that sometimes come from a different continent. So things that can be easily manufactured or produced nationally. We need to bear this in mind, and we need to strengthen our industries throughout the region. Because if we can have common currency, we are able also to have common production. We need to have common production among member states of the like. Many times this has occurred in the past. We have joined companies between Argentina and Brazil. We need to try to enlarge this range of our production. Not to rely on other countries that are outside the region, outside of the like. Here we need to understand that it's necessary to have good conditions to compete. Where you see China present, the US is also paying attention. We need to invest in technology and we have received delegations from the US saying that this technology, for example, that we acquire from China is not good. Because what they're trying to do is to sell their own products. They don't want the Chinese to be here in this region. So it's very complex. The way you handle the relationships, the reality in each country is different. There are some countries that have relationships with Taiwan. We need to understand the meaning of the cooperation with Taiwan and some others have relations with China. So for example, Nicaragua has interrupted relationships with Taiwan and has instead signed cooperation agreements with China. So it's very complex what we see throughout the continent in these difficult times. But we are open to discuss these issues because these are items that need to be discussed in this global agenda. You mentioned Chinese products and the US basically trying to devalue the Chinese products to create markets for US products. I would argue that this is the same thing. There was a statement the other day by the commander of the Southern Command proposing that Latin American and Caribbean nations that currently have Russian military equipment donate that equipment to Ukraine so that it can be that Russian equipment can be replaced with US equipment. That says a whole lot. I don't even know what to make of that. I mean I guess on a certain level it's a brilliant capitalist business idea to push your product. Donate your Russian equipment to Ukraine and then you can replace it with the US equipment. That's just pretty crazy. In our last few minutes, let's talk about, we've talked about so much, the social and the economic and the different trade agreements and the US being present at this particular salox summit. Do you see this seventh summit leading or really setting the stage, not just the conversation, but setting the stage for Salok to replace the organization of American states? I think first the ground was leveled. Governments changed. Now we have governments that agree on policy and we are moving towards that goal. And what we need to say and to highlight and we are happy that the Secretary General of the OAS was not invited. He was not invited to this salox summit. We saw that the US was invited. We didn't like that idea because if we are an organism without the presence of the US, why are we inviting them? But we were explained and we understood that in the matters of diplomacy, sending a note is a formality. The thing is that the role that they can play in our organism. So we understand diplomacy. China was also invited. So it was a formality, let's say. The important thing is that our countries have the opportunity to discuss and the OAS regarding the OAS. We are at a stage in which we are going to the funeral of the OAS. They are already there. We need to keep an eye open. Because we have to be careful that we need to pay attention because I think Almagro is probably going to be removed from his position because there is a possible criminal process against that person. Because the OAS represents interest. Almagro is the employee of the month for the OAS. But if it's not Almagro, they can appoint someone else. However, that is why we are focusing on strengthening organisms such as CELAC that ends up becoming a true mechanism to defend the interests of our country. Not just to limit CELAC to a space for consensus or to produce statement, but to produce proactive policies, to have a CELAC court, to have an organism of human rights. That should be the goal. Institutional architecture. Step by step. Unity within diversity. Because we want all of the states to be there. And sometimes it's difficult for the presidents or heads of state and government to reach a consensus or an agreement. It's not always easy. We have some members that speak about dictatorship. However, if one of the members expressed an opinion, it's not necessarily the opinion of the CELAC. But we have to hear what all the presidents have to say. So we feel very proud to see that the CELAC is reinforced and that the Caribbean states are now holding the presidency pro-temporary. And it was nice to see that the president pro-temporary here was able to discuss with the social movements. And what we are mentioning, and we are so happy to see Ralph Gonzalez holding the presidency. And we are happy to see that he has the agenda for social movement in his hands. And I'm so happy to see this birth of the social CELAC. The voice of those who were never heard is now being heard. And we want to incorporate more voices. Some people were not able to make it. We unfortunately did not receive the support of the Argentinian government for the incorporation of the social CELAC. However, we were happy to see that they opened the gate for us to meet the president Lula and the new or the incoming president pro-temporary. And we thank the government for giving us the possibility. We didn't have enough time to work all the items of the agenda we wanted to work on. However, we will continue working with the different movements of Latin America and the Caribbean for a common agenda. So, wow, Alejandro, what wonderful work you're doing. And so exciting to see the people's voices organized ahead of the state CELAC summit.  This is just huge. And it will be so important to see this full integration of Latin America and the Caribbean, which does include and needs to include the voices of the people. And you're so key to making that happen. It was just such an honor to have this conversation with you and to know you and work with you and other human rights related arenas as well. I'm so thankful you had time to join us today. Is there anything we should share with the audience before we close our episode? Yes, something that we didn't address the topic of Peru. We feel the pain of this coup that is taking place of Peru. And we see that the current president of Peru is talking about people that died. No, we are talking about people that were murdered. We are working with missions of human rights. We are working with political parties to be able to go to Peru and to hear the voices that are not being heard by the Peruvian government. We need to file complaints in the human rights organisms of what's happening in Peru. We need to pay attention to what's going on in Peru, analyzing what is happening. The role of social movements and the population. How are they protesting? There is a media blackout. Several roads have been blocked and no one knows because this is not being shown. Everybody wants to go to Lima because the center of power is there. Because the people have been betrayed by the establishment. The vice president is not doing what the people want. So we are not interfering in domestic affairs. If they want to have a constituent assembly or elections, that's a domestic problem. But that needs to be solved. However, we say that democracy needs to return and we need to stop criminality. Let's have no more weapons there. Stop murdering people. What's happening is what we saw in Colombia. We see weapons that are being used directly against the people. And we have seen a lot of murder people there in Peru. That's what we are asking for. That was what I didn't mention during the conversation. We have a commitment with Peru, a sister nation. I thank you. I thank you, Terry. I'm so happy to have the possibility of being here and speaking about these important elements. About this common agenda that we have. And we have a similar thinking because we are both militants of peace. We are both militants for the rights of people. And having the possibility of sharing this with an audience, it makes me proud. And we not only have a friendship, we have been together physically fighting for peace. So thank you all. Thank you so much. What a great honor to have this conversation with you has been so informative. And I'm so thankful for your knowledge and your leadership. And you're such a great example. Personal example of human rights defending and just you're always out there on the front lines where people need you. You're bringing up Peru. I guess we should probably close our episode with that. And I just want to remind the audience that we've been speaking with Alejandro. He's the international relations secretary for Evita movement in Argentina. And so we're so thankful he could join us from Argentina today. And the program's been what the F is going on in Latin America and the Caribbean popular resistance broadcast you can catch us on YouTube live Thursdays at 430 p.m. Pacific 730 p.m. Eastern on three YouTube channel simulcasting simulcasting So thank you so much for the pink popular resistance and the Convo couch and post broadcast recordings can be found at Apple podcast Spotify or wherever you find your podcast so thank you everyone for joining us thank you again Alejandro, and we'll see all of you next week.


Good morning and welcome to the local opening of the Chaos Studio Hamburg at day one of R3C, which is the remote chaos experience, now here nowhere. In a short time, more than a few hours, rather than days. Some chaotic people, like beings from the Chaos Computer Club here in Hamburg, on their own, with fun, just with fun on doing and fun with their computers. We did our second R3C after 2021, despite the worldwide pandemic. One here, the last few days, are vaccinated and get tested daily. We have CO2 lights, signals, we have masks, the windows are open and it's sometimes very cold. Build a virtual world and that's literal. This world is real, just 2D. But with the real possibility to step by a jitzy. This is a videoconference software, one of the many open source tools. Congenially linked together, virtual 2D world, real 3D people can find each other. And just that, angels, yes, on from heaven. That's our name convention, we're using it from the beginning. There are green room angels, signal angels, awareness angels. And some technicians that make it possible that we can see each other, see more than us. Please help me show us what we built here. Yeah, it's not that simple, well, basically it is pretty simple. By now, pretty much everyone should know videoconferencing, like jitzy, big blue button, all commercial alternatives. I think in the last years, most people had an opportunity to work with that. And for a smaller group of people, it's rather simple to make a convention like this. But our target audience is a bit bigger than that, so we need a bit more power as well. And so, in between the videoconferencing, where all the speakers and heralds are collected, we need other software in between. So we have OBS, open broadcast system. And in our club rooms, we have a few computers that provide video streams and record and mix. And of course, then there's the Vok, the video operation center, and they do the play out in the CVM. So all that, so you at home can see this in the browser. Yeah, could you catch that on the camera? How much technology we need, how many cables, how much work. So this is the direction, the mixing and everything. And everything is rather tidy. So symbolic to all, for all the other angels, we want to talk about the translation angels. And yes, this sentence here is being translated as well. And we find it great that there are these maybe modern Babelfishes. They hear one language and they are speaking another one. In the center of the remote care experience, apart from the communication with each other, there are the talks of course, interesting talks by interesting people. The topics of the talks are not just about computers, no, quite the opposite. Science, society, a critical thinking. Art, culture, and even acquire with a secretive musical message. So there is a great variety of talks here at the RC3. On all four days, we have more than 160 talks, or maybe 180 or more. The highlights of the talks from Hamburg and all other information from us, you can find on our website. The URL is hamburg.ccc.de. Be now here, nowhere else.


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