Little drop in everybody. And we're live. This is the homelab show episode 115. Jay wasn't around but there's another Jason here. How you doing Jason Slagle? I'm good. This is a topic that has been brought up several times. And it's all about the Cisco, Maraki and some of the other old equipment that's good for your homelab. Jason's way more of an expert at it than I am. So he's our special guest today, subject matter expert on all this fun stuff. Yeah, it's been something I've done for a long time. I mean, my background originally was networking, right? I worked for an ISP for many, many years. I've done my CCIE lab a couple times and unfortunately did not pass. It's very hard. I think these days I probably could pass if I was willing to put in the time to study. But I'm not. It's simple. There's no benefit to me to doing it. It's kind of fun in the, you know, just to prove you know it, but at some point it kind of gets like, yeah. Yeah, let all my Cisco certs expire. I had my CCMP route switch, my CCDP route switch. And I had the CCIE written. I've actually passed the CCIE written twice. But I didn't go any further than that. I mean, I lab the CCIE three times. And again, each time I missed by like a point or two and I, and it was dumb stuff.  You know, that's, that's my minimal pursuit I did in the 90s to the first versions of the Microsoft security, not Microsoft security, Microsoft administrator stuff. The, what was that called? MCS? I'm CSA. Yeah. I'm CSA stuff in the early eight. And yeah, some of it was really aggravating because it's like, wait, because I remember there was a question I got wrong about you, could you change support for RDP? The answer is supposed to be no. I'm like, yeah, he's gone registering changes. And they're like, no, that's the wrong answer. I'm like, no, it's the right answer. I had to do it the other day. It's the correct answer. It's not the answer they want. It's not the answer they want.  I'm not taking it again. And I never did. Yeah. When you, when you went and did the IE route switch when I did it the first time, I mean, it's still had, this is, I'm really going to make myself old here. It's still had DLSW plus and IPX on it, which are two protocols. DLSW plus is one that probably no one's ever heard of. If they don't work in banking, IPX was pretty common back in the novella days. Yeah. Yeah. The IPX stuff. But that's why we're bringing it up though is there are people who definitely are pursuing and it's availed still today to get a Cisco certification because it will show people that you do know the Cisco stuff and then general networking. Even if you're not getting hired for that job, if someone has that cert, you go, okay, they understand networking. They're going to get the, they understand, they know what a subnet is. I mean CCNA, CCENT, I think is a low end one now, but CCNA, right? Like it showed, you have to at least know the USI model to get through it, right? And that's so much of it. Although I know plenty of people with their CCNA that still screw up VLANs because they don't quite understand the difference between layer two and layer three. They think they do, but they're like, oh yeah, every switch needs an interface on every, no, you don't want that. Yeah. Right. And so let's talk about some of the older Cisco gear, what some of the pros and cons of the Cisco, the biggest one, there's a plethora of it on eBay and places. It's cheap, right? Like you can pick up, I mean, if you're, if you're not looking at 10 gig, right? If you're, if you're homelab and I'll caveat and we can have a whole discussion a little bit about what your goals are, right? But if you just need it to work and you're, and you're stuck with like, and you're okay with one gig port speeds or maybe one gig with a handful of 10 gig, you can pick up like 3750s. Like I'm looking at one right now, a 48 port 3750 PoE for, you know, 35 bucks on, on eBay, right? And 3750 is a workhorse. It works fine. You're right. Here's a 3750X, right? This sounds probably got, it doesn't have a network module in it. So it's only 48 port, 10, 100 gig, right? But it's again, this one's not PoE, but 50 bucks, right? And those things, they're workhorses, they will work forever. And they will not, like they, I've, in my entire career, I've had maybe two fail, right? Like the ports in them fail, but they just go forever. Now sometimes we'll wear the flash out in them. Yeah. Yeah. So I should make sure you save that running config enough times. Yeah.  And just where's the NVRM out? I think the important thing is a lot of people won't realize how infrequently they need 10 gig. My friend Jeff from Craft Computing just had his whole video of his lab and he talked about some of the futility and why he's got so many things still on one gig because cool, you want to run Pyhole in your home lab and Plex people, I've seen a lot of people tell me, Oh, don't I need like 10 gig for Plex? I'm like, look, Netflix comes into your house at less than 10 gig to several TVs. You can also provide as you have enough speed to run the Plex server. If you're transcoding, which I'm not usually doing now, I'm just trying to run it native. You can have quite a few of them running over one gig connections. Well, I mean, what is a 4k, right? A 4k stream is what 30 to 60 megabits. So are you running more than 10 of them? Right. Right. Your Plex box is going to fall over long before your giggy networking falls over. Yeah. Gig networking is way more relevant than people think it is. The only connection I have that's 10 gig is my video editing. The rest of my network is combination of Wi-Fi, which is less than one gig speed or one gig connections to random devices that I have. I have. So I have a catalyst 9200 at home that has eight, no, 16 M gig ports in it, right? So it has 16 ports that'll do 10 hundred or all the way up to 10 gig copper. And it'll do for 10 gig SFP plus, right? And so I have like my one XCPNG box is 10 gig and one of my storage boxes is 10 gig, right? And that is probably the use case for it. If your storage is sufficiently fast, then it is great to do 10 gig do it. If you're if you are moving a ton of data that you will obviously see a benefit, right? But like the reality of it is, is that even at one gig, you're looking at what 125 megabytes a second theoretical max and you're probably like most homelab storage equipment is going to struggle to write more than a hat. Yeah. Yeah. Something worth noting too, when we say Cisco, Cisco has a weird dividing line. If you don't want that, what I guess is a vet was used to be Linksys as another line of that stuff. That's not great. Yeah. The CBS stuff, I mean, it works, right? But it's probably honestly wouldn't be my first choice. Like I had a SG 350 at home forever and it works, right? But like a bunch of the pros, like I had a whole list, I have a whole list here, like the pros, right? If you're studying, right? I saw somebody in the comment section talked about CCNA, right? If you're studying for your CCNA and you're studying for Cisco search or you wanted to do networking in the enterprise, like you still generally can't go wrong with Cisco, you'll find plenty of people that are running Cisco in the core, right? And they've got a good feature set and they're good and cheap. And now with like modern Ansible, you can even configure them via Ansible. So if you want to learn how to do some of the networking stuff there, they're great for that, right? But they come with some negatives too. The negatives are like they're expensive if you want current stuff. They're licensed locked if you want current stuff. It can be hard to get iOS if you don't get creative and I'm not going to like it. People know how to get creative. Yeah, yeah, right. Like the file names are predictable. Yeah, that's all I have to say, right? Like you figure out what the file name is or the version you want and you can probably find it. The optics can be expensive if you're not willing to do service unsupported transceiver. I don't know why you wouldn't just do that, right? And then the biggest thing is they have security issues if you don't patch them. But a lot of those are feature locked and you're probably not going to use the features that actually have security issues. But none of that applies to the small business stuff, right? Like the small business stuff, it's not iOS, right? It's not an XOS. It's not iOS XE or XR, right? It's like its own kind of Cisco-like language that's different enough that it will drive you insane. Yes, I hate it. It's because the comments are so close. This is not iOS and the version that you understand because it's missing so many features. Yeah, it made several of my Cisco friends angry because when I was trying to review it, I had just run into commands that wouldn't work. But everyone's like, oh, no, they should work time. You just don't know what you're doing. I said, come on over. Let's SSH into this. I mean, the big iron, right? The Cisco, somebody pointed out, I think this guy here, I mean, I don't think I'm going to do it anyway. This here points out that like the, you know, the newer stuff runs and XSR runs on XOS, right? And they have ACI, which is all really cool technology, right? But it might be overkill for HomeLab unless you're studying for particular certifications that require it. As far as the CCNA goes, right? Like generally, until fairly recently, you could get away with like the 3750, 3850 series stuff. There may be some newer stuff. They're constantly updating the curriculum on there, right? So you can probably get 80 to 90% of the way done studying, using the older stuff, and then go find like INE or one of the other people that will let you do a rack rental, right? They get like the little bit of time you need with the newer stuff if you can't find another way to do it, right? That's a very good way to do that if you're trying to, if your, if your goal is to learn the Cisco stuff. When I was studying for my CCIE, I had a, my networking stack at home looked way different.  And as a matter of fact, I had an ISDN simulator. Remember that? I could do PRI and BRI. But, you know, I, I think it's important though, you mentioned, you know, the older Cisco stuff. Like you said, it's really cheap on eBay. I know someone, I've seen the comment fly by where if you want an airplane in your house, yes, they have a certain level of noise they produce. So this is not going to, this is not quiet mode Cisco. This is the old stuff. They didn't think about noise levels with them. I think it's important to know though, once you kind of get the hang of iOS and start learning it, the other routers we'll talk about in a minute here are similar in ways. The command line structure, I think Cisco is pretty much like they set the standard and there's some variations. They may do things a little different, but overall, there's a lot of similarities as you go down the list. Yeah. And again, like the biggest point there is like, don't, Cisco's not going to like it for HomeLab. Do not buy the small business stuff. There are so many, like there's no pros, right? It's like there are way cheaper options. You're not going to use it if your goal is to move data, right? Like you're not going to use it to study for anything useful. And if your goal is to move data, there are way cheaper ways to do it. Yeah. There's a few of them that were okay priced on their POE, but I said okay priced because they were on sale on Amazon, not because you could get them for an incredible deal. And yeah. I think I still have a 6513 in production somewhere. So yeah, that's a 13U rack mount. That's a 9U, the 6509. Those things are workhorses. They work forever. Yeah. Well, that's what makes them available so easily on eBay is because they may be out of support for the enterprise, but they're still a great learning opportunity for you. And they're fun to play with, mess around with all the old Cisco stuff. Yeah, it's fun. I mean, but again, like this comes down to what your goal is, right? And I can't stress that enough. If your goal is not to learn networking stuff, and it doesn't terribly matter what you end up using here, right? Like I was, we were talking about it before. Like one of the, how I learned about serve of the home, right? Like is they had where they first got big is there were some, I forget who made them, somebody made a bunch of switches that you could reflash and put the brocade OS on them. And you could get cheap, like 24 port 10 gig switches.  And if your goal was to move data, they moved data just fine, right? Like there's some considerations there. If you want to run ice guzzy, right? Maybe you want jumbo frames. Most of the Cisco stuff we're talking about here, like unless you get down to like the 2960 level, all of it will support jumbo frames. You probably need to learn your networking pretty well. If you want to run ice guzzy, the number of people I've seen totally grenade their lives because they don't understand how ice guzzy works and they screw it up is really high. Yes. So there's a certain percentage of consulting we do to unravel messed up these setups.  Like this was they're running a VM. I think it was it was on a sand they ran out of space in it. So they just ice guzzied a note over from their from their Synology box and then used Windows storage spaces to just like stripe onto it. And that disappeared in a ball of flames and it took it took Humpty Dumpty. It took me three weeks to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, but I did. Yeah, it can be done. Yeah, you got to be careful testing a lot of that. What are some of the cons besides the sounding like an airplane of some of the old Cisco equipment? What are some caveats and pit balls? I mean, optics can be expensive, right? Like the Cisco optics are typically very expensive. They're again, they're insecure, right? Like, but it may not matter again, right? Like these are home labs and in real the reality is, you know, you and I were kind of talking about it in an unrelated thing earlier. No one's burning their Ode to get into your home lab, right? Like it's not it's not a huge deal. Like as long as you understand the caveats of that and it's not a production environment, it is just a learning lab environment, then those security issues are probably not that big of a deal. Just firewall control plane, firewall of the control plane, put them on a separate one. And I've had people say, Hey, what about signing it to a specific port? And I only plug that port in when I want to manage it. Perfect. You've you've mitigated the problem. You're solving it. We've locked it down so other people can't get to that management plane. So now you if something wanders into your or your friends come over with, you know, with someone remotely controlling things looking for some flaw, they're not likely to find it. Yeah, I mean, some this guy here asks about directly about licensing licensing can be an issue. If the older stuff, it tends to not be anything older than like a 3850. I think you tend to not have licensing issues because they didn't switch to the you can at least run the non universal licensing on it. If it is universal licensing, it's only feature unlocked, right? Like they're the switch isn't going to stop working unless it's Meraki, in which case you have to have a license on it. But the Cisco stuff, it'll pass data. You just may like you may have IP base versus land light versus IP base versus land base, right? Like there's three or four different service levels, right? So it's worth paying attention when you buy these on eBay with what they come with, especially if they're newer because you you can't just go randomly download an iOS. And suddenly it used to be I could just load the like IP services image on all of them, not that I ever did this when I was studying for my CCIE, but you know, you would just buy a router and then you would just find. Yeah, you essentially would find another CCIE because one of the things you get once you get your CCIE is you get access to all of the iOS images. So you just find another CCIE to just grab you the image you need and you just load it on and suddenly you were the IP services and you could do all of the things. But they've changed that now so they are licensed locked, right? So you may not be able to upgrade. And this matters a lot with the models that have L in the name, right? So like 2960L or 9200L, you can't typically upgrade those to like a layer of three image they have. They're on land base, so they are somewhat feature limited. But for homelab use, they have 90% and they actually probably 100% of the features you need for homelab, probably not 100% if you're studying for one of the certification tests. No, I've always learned on real hardware and I've seen a couple of people in the comments here ask about GNS3. Did you ever use that? It works great for that, right? It's another thing you can do to run iOS. You can configure it up. IU made pretty, for the CCNA level, Cisco makes something, if they still make it, I think it's called Packet Tracer. Yeah, I think that still exists too. I mean, it works perfectly fine for the CCNA level stuff. They had one above it. And let me see if this one is still around, called Viral, VIRL. It is, it's still around. And it's like 100 bucks a year and it lets you do fancier things like it'll actually run full switch software. You can do ASAV, you can do iOS, XR and XE stuff. You can do up to 20 nodes. Yeah, you can do a personal edition with 20 nodes in it. And it runs real images, right? So that's another good, cheap way to do that. I used that quite a bit. Oh, it's okay. Yeah, CML was the big commercial version of Viral. I don't know. They may have gotten rid of it. But that's another option alternative to GNS 3. And the nice thing about that is you can configure up a bunch of virtual stuff. But again, like you have to be, if your home lab is networking focused, right, then this all makes sense. And I think it's, I've always liked the real hardware myself because it's where I started long before these tools existed. Just like you did early in my career. It's cool they have these now. And I think they are pretty good when you can't get your hands on a lot of hardware. I just have less experience using them to, I just like their hands on watching the plugs laid up. Yeah, I mean, they're for, if your goal is to just study for like the CCN. Again, I think packet tracer is probably enough. Somebody directly asked, I think packet tracer is probably enough for CCNA these days. Unless they've somehow made it smarter, harder CCNA is one. It's probably been, I think I last took it like five years ago. And I don't think I studied. I think I just wanted to took it. It's mostly theory. There is some where they put you on the CLI. So you have to know how to do it, but you're not really doing anything super fancy. I'd have to look over the blueprint these days to see if it's it to see what the actual features there that you would need real hardware there. But even for CCNP, I think something like viral, right, like or CML, if you can get a light versus CML or GNS3, right, like at that point, you start needing bigger hardware, right? Like so you're going to need something that does BGP, you're going to need something that can do in this case, probably ISIS because they're probably starting to bring some of their shortest path bridging stuff into into some of those more advanced topics. You're going to need to be able to do DMVPN and all that other stuff. And it's just too much hardware to buy, right? Like the CCIE lab these days is all virtual, right? It's all run on CML. But back when it was physical hardware, it was like 12 routers plus 12 routers that you could configure. And then they had a handful that you had to talk to on the outside, right? So no one's got that amount of hardware running around. It becomes very expensive to get there, right? So you end up using something like Viral to do that. Yeah, they're all valid, especially, and I think we already can tell by the comments, a lot of people are into diving deep into the networking. There's a demand for people to know that. There's never enough network. 100%. And I think it's a good base, right? Like we, again, like the biggest thing we struggle with here with that people when they get into networking is they don't quite understand the differences between layer two and layer three. And we may have, we may have had to go on site for a loop created just the other day. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's probably a spanning tree. That's another thing. Spanning tree is just a whole lot of nonsense that people don't understand well. And when you, it's one of those things that you don't have to understand it until you break it. And then you're, and then you never figure out what's wrong with it until you understand it. Don't mess with the weights since you know what you're doing. Yeah. So let's talk about microtik. Yeah, microtik or microtik. I think it's actually microtik. There's a good, there's a wonderful debate about that. Apparently, if you're from Latvia, you're supposed to say it microtik. But if you're not from Latvia, this is actually from someone from Latvia that I talked to that told me this, which I thought was great. I, that stuff, like it while it's not the absolute cheapest you can get, it is the cheapest I think I've seen that isn't random alibaba purchases.  It's a boatload. I love when they came out with their little four port 10 gig, I still have it. And that little box, man, it was the cheapest way you could get four ports and 10 gig for years before anyone ever caught up with thinking anything in the same price range. Yeah, I have the CRS 316, I think it is. It's a 16 port, like 10 gig, all SFP plus one.  I can't, it was cheap, super cheap for 16 10 gig ports. Still, it's pretty cheap for 16 10 gig ports. I pulled it out of the box. I'm like, is this thing full of helium? It is so light. There's nothing to it at all. But like I, the pros there, I mean, that is the pro, right? The two pros are it's dirt cheap, and it's reasonably performant. If you not really aren't doing much on it. To me, the cons are I absolutely loathe router OS to configure a switch in switch OS or SWS seems half baked to me, like it's missing a ton of features. And the configuration is it was just pointing out the configuration is ridiculously wonky. It's not just a little bit wonky, it's very, very, very wonky. And I pay with your time with me. Yes, what you saved, what you saved out of the box for it. I found switch OS for the most basic of VLAN setups. Fine. Yeah, beyond that, although there may be a lot of features written in there for what it can do. Good luck getting it to do it in a sane way. Someone in my forums, I love their comment. They said, make your tick is a device I love, but there's always some secret incantation you'll find in our forums that you're not sure why it works, but some reason you copy and paste it in and it starts doing the thing you thought it should do in the first place. Yeah. So there's that. And then the other thing is, is that like it's got all these features, right? So I have this like CRS 316, and it's got 16, and it's like, it does layer three. And then you start reading the fine print. And it's like, yeah, it does layer three, like a gig, because as soon as you start, right, all of these things in the end, the micro taken a lot of those super, super cheap layer three switches, they don't, they're, they're using off the shelf reference hardware from like Broadcom or one of the vendors. And so it's a switch module that like it has the 16 ports in it, right? And all of the cam and all the Mac forwarding all the, all of the layer two stuff happens in the hardware of that chip. But as soon as you need to go to layer three and cross those layer two boundaries, it goes back to the CPUs. And the CPU is woefully under performant and almost all of those boxes, right? So like the micro tick is really, really bad about that, that it's like every one of their boxes supports all of the features, but it supports all of them at like one one hundredth of the performance of not using them. Yeah, that's I don't think as many people, you're usually when I see people asking me about layer three, like they really think they have a demand for, especially if it's a homelab user, I'm like, why are you routing your storage? Let's get to that topic. I mean, I have a dedicated video about storage design because I've solved so many problems. Like why are you trying to route your store? I wanted to VLAN off my storage and then put a route. I'm like, no, you don't. That is not what you want to do.  If I get away on it, that's probably what you want to do, right? Like you there's no, I used to use for a long time. Nice. There's still some downstairs. I used dedicated hardware for I had some Cisco 2960Gs I bought and that they were when I was using one of those the ecologics, right? Because they had four one gig ports for the iSCSI and it was just its own network. It wasn't routed. It wasn't uplinked to anything other than its management interface was connected to the other switch stack, but there was literally no way to reach the iSCSI network not on the iSCSI network. There's no reason to. Right. They need to be separate and that's just good storage design. When you put that all separate, you don't want them part of it. Especially if you want your patch management cycles to be really fast for all your normal switches, but you have to be very careful. You don't patch a iSCSI switch during the hours.  You don't want that. If you're running storage over IP and production, you really need to consider your network design as far as resiliency goes. What is your patching plan to patch that system? What is your patching plan to patch? This is one of the big problems I have with the TrueNest stuff when you're running your production. What's my plan to patch that TrueNest box? Because I got to reboot it to do it and it's down for eight minutes and VMs don't like not having storage for eight minutes. They get kind of cranky. You need outside of a home lab in a home lab environment, that's fine. Just shut everything down and patch it. That's fine. In a production environment, it's less so. The micro tech to me, I see two use cases for it. It's great for a home lab. It's great for cheap storage that just move bits around where you don't really need the features. If somebody pointed out somewhere in these comments, you don't really change your switching configuration that often. I can't remember the last time I made a VLAN change at home on any of my boards. It just works. You just set it up and you kind of forget it. If that's all you need and you're not focused on networking and you want to focus on other things instead, then by all means, it works fine. It's cheap. It works. I think something else to make note of. It's called RouterOS. I've seen people say, do you want to contribute to the micro tech botnet? Unfortunately, micro tech, like any company, they've had some security flaws, but a little bit worse than that was they had a default configuration that left the WAN open to management. Of course, the tyranny of the default is no one changes the default settings. There are a absolutely large sum of micro techs contributing to the world of botnets because people do things at the fault. It was the cheapest device. They didn't have experience to understand how to set it up properly. I'm glad they do not have that as a default anymore because it was just very unfortunate. They should have known it's one of those things. I partly blame them. People like to blame the users, but I'm like, no, no, no. It's not. Guardrails around people. It wasn't the users at all. In almost all cases, if you actually dig into that, it's crappy wireless ISPs because the micro tech devices are the favorite CPEs of most wireless ISPs or at least were for many, many years because they were dirt cheap. They were disposable. You could replace them. They had enough features for the wireless ISP need eat them and you could ship them to a client and just say, hey, plug this into the radio and plug it in your network and you're good to go. It became the crappy cable modem of wireless ISPs. Most of them, it was a backdoor account in Winbox. It wasn't the admin pass where there was also a backdoor account that for years, years, years shipped. I think a lot of it by default had the management ports all exposed, which is just not how anything should be configured by default. Yep. It was a combination of those couple of things. People having a good password, well, we can ask them to, but they won't. Others. Yeah. Enterprise. What about Juniper Arista and Aruba? What's your thoughts on some of those? I mean, they're great. I love Arista switches. They're probably the most configurable if you're doing leaf spine or anything super crazy like that, right? But I question their use in the home lab unless you're specifically trying to go and learn that direction, right? Like, yeah, by all means, right? Like if you're a Juniper ruled for a long time, the core networking space of the internet, right? Like again, my background is all back when like the MX480, I think it was the big, huge Juniper boxes that ran the core of the internet. I think Arista has recently overtaken a lot of that stuff, especially in the data center space because it's super configurable. Once you get into that space though, like right, if you're running Arista and you're looking at like full leaf spine and all the other cool things that come with that, like you really want to be using something like Ansible to configure that, right? And so maybe you have two goals now. Maybe you need some networking hardware to configure, but you probably also need a more traditional home lab to start playing with Ansible to start learning some of that stuff too. Yeah. They're kind of a niche in the home lab. I don't know that there's as much availability on eBay for those, not like there is for Cisco. Yeah. And I'm not as up to date on how the licensing would work once it's removed from the Deanison area. The problem is, and this is going to be a big problem, I think going forward for home labbers is almost all of these companies are trying to figure out how they can go to the recurring revenue model, right? And so Cisco, like the writings, I saw somebody earlier in the comments talking about DNA and DNA center and all the other like crappy UIs that Cisco Catalyst Center, yep, or DNA, they're, those are terrible.  I absolutely hate them. The only successful GUI dashboard that Cisco has ever released, in my opinion, they bought from Meraki. Yeah. And you're actually starting to see support for like, you can put Catalyst 92 and 93 hundreds, some of their switches that run containers on them, you can actually manage in the Meraki portal now. We should talk about the other cheap one. Have you used the FS.com ones? Yeah, that client, the VMware client, they use some of them. I mean, they're like, they, it's the same sort of like Fisher price interface that a lot of those really crappy web interface ones use, like it is good enough to see a lion. It was really wonky. Not as wonky as Ford in it, but kind of wonky. The they work again, if your goal is to move data, right? Like if your goal is to move data, then by all means buy one or one of the other 16,000 Alibaba reference platform switches you can buy on Alibaba, right? Like they work just fine. Yeah, I think there's always security concerns with them, but don't give they don't need internet access, by the way. I know they're a switch, but they themselves don't need to go out on the internet for things and they probably don't have an update method. I'm not just sure. I've debated about trying the FS.com and thought about buying one and kind of dive deeper into it, but I think Patrick from serve the home has done some videos on those. So back before Dell bottom, I used a good amount of like force 10 stuff, right? They work that stuff again, right? It's like everyone's all like, oh, I need my new shiny switch stuff. Like again, switches are one of those things that like I set them up and I forget them and occasionally maybe I have to make the line changes. Like, you know what I'm not doing? I'm not in poking with spanning tree.   But like, I just don't log into switches. Like you just they just work. I log into them to upgrade them. And that's it. Yep. Yeah. I mean, unifies give you this cool UI to make things easy to use. That's why they're so popular and things like that. But even myself, my homelab stuff or my, you know, I once I set up my cameras, I've never touched them. They just work. They just move data. You log in from monitoring, right? It's like, oh, why is my network slow? Let me figure out what port is using all the bandwidth or you want to look at those little ants move in the new like ubiquity UI, you're not logging in making v-line changes regularly at all. Like you just don't do it. Yeah. You know, and to touch a little bit on it as well, kind of back on the router topic, because it's I skipped over this a little bit, but one of the other things about understanding the web UI and some of the bad web UIs versus a good web UI is how accessible it is for someone to configure. Reason we don't all just code everything in assemblies because there's not there's a lot of learning you have to do to do assembly. It's a lot. I've watched people who are really good at it and scratch my head at how they're so damn good at it. But that's obviously not for the masses. Same thing with having a good web UI on some of these. This is where having some of these systems out there that have good web UIs that make it easier for the average person, they're more likely to set it up securely if it's easier to set up. Yeah. I'm a big fan of secure by default. All these things should come relatively secure out of the box and we're starting to see movements in that way. The biggest thing that I think the web UI screw up a lot is I wish we could agree upon a defined way to configure VLANs. It's the Cisco way where you have a native VLAN and everything else is trunked and you can prove the ones you don't want or allow the ones you do want. Some of the weird things where it's like, I'm going to give you a VLAN and then it's going to have a U or a T depending on if it's tagged or untagged. If it doesn't have a letter at all, it's neither of them. It's like, I don't know. Not only that, Unify has changed the definition a couple of times now in their Unify platform, but they use the U and the T in their Edge platform. It's all the U's and T's and they got a little thing that stacks as it goes down. Yeah. I don't know why people just don't copy because there's not copyright on that if you just did it with Cisco. There's not like Cisco is coming after people because some companies do copy the ways it's going. Yeah. The HP way is okay too. That's probably my second favorite way where it's like to find a VLAN and then like in the VLAN config, you can just do tagged and then a list of ports, then untagged and a list of ports. That's probably my second most favorite way. But like sometimes I want to look at a VLAN and see what ports it's on, both tagged and untagged. Sometimes I want to look at a port and see what VLANs are on it. Like I need the ability to do both of those in the same way in some of the switches, web interfaces, just and I'm looking at use Cisco Small Business because it is literally the worst. Make it really hard to do that in the same way. I see someone said this. I don't recall this. Someone said Cisco sued. Cisco owns a copyright on some amount of that configuration language. However, Cisco stole that from somebody else. So I'm not sure how successful they are and actually defending some of those lawsuits like or moving forward with some of them. Yeah. I have to dig around. There's always a little bit more to the story about probably what was taken there. That might be an interesting history dive, but yeah. You know, the edge switches by Unify or Ubiquiti specifically, because Unify is their product line. Ubiquiti is a company. I don't want to complicate that. But their edge switch line, it was based on the before BIOS forked. I can't remember what it used to be called before BIOS. Someone will type that down in the comments. But they forked it prior to that. It used to be the original Unify line. You could actually SSH into it and then you could tell that local host and get into the command line UI. It used to be in the early versions of all the Unify switches. It's a shame they stripped it out later. But it was pretty solid. But unfortunately, I'm not seeing much in the way of updates. But I don't know how many updates the edge system really needs. They don't have much excitement around that product, but it does exist. Any of the ones we installed, they seem to run forever. But a lot of switches do. Viada, that's the one I was looking for. Viada was original before BIOS. BIOS is a fork of Viada. And Edge took a copy of Viada and Ubiquiti kind of customized it for their own purposes. I mean, somebody pointed out that NXOS is laying space these days. Almost all of these switches are almost all of them are Linux based these days. A lot of them used to be VXOS, I think is the name of the real-time operating system they used to run that predates Linux for a lot of this stuff. Most of those have moved to Linux. Some amount of them, like a lot of the big Juniper iron, I think is still free BSD based. Although I think more recent Juniper iron is going to Linux. Same thing, F5 load balancers used to be free or net BSD based, I believe. And now Linux based these days too. So it's like, in the end, all of these things are Linux under the hood. A lot of them are going to more containerized. The management plane's a container. Everything's a container. But the real difference you get is that the more expensive Cisco Enterprise, Arista, those Enterprise companies, they're all making their own A6. So a lot of this stuff gets punted to hardware that on your commodity hardware ends up getting pulled down to the CPU. Yeah, and because there's a more available availability, I would say, for Linux kernel developers. So when they build some custom hardware to want a couple extra custom modules loading the kernel, support their offloading chips, Linux is going to be the OS. Because if I were to put a job hunt out for someone who knows Linux or BSD, I'm going to get way more people saying, oh, Linux, okay, I've heard it in terms of developers. Yeah. And it used to be, I think a lot of them used to use FreeBSD. I think Juniper went that way because it was really easy to build a slim down. Like there was very good native support for building like a very small FreeBSD box, right? Like you could get it down to fit on a floppy for many, many years. That's what MonoWall did, the first one. Which MonoWall is the predecessor to the PF Sense. Oh, I forgot about that. I remember MonoWall. So the wireless ISP that a guy named Matt that I know used to run, they used MonoWall and Mikrotik. Like the CPU is Mikrotik and then they ran MonoWall at the head end to do all the rate limiting. Yeah. It's one of the things I always joked about just the whole BSD world. I always think BSD was like first for a lot of things. But Linux did it better in terms of like commoditizing it and making it to the mass market. Because you know, we even had jails in the BSD world long jails were around forever before Docker and all the other containerization came around for Linux. Yeah. Jails are like, I mean, if we want to get really pendantic, we could go back to Slayer's Zones and say that they kind of copied some. Yes. Yeah. We can probably take you even back further than that. Because I bet you there's some IBM hardware that like OS 360 level stuff that also did some, well, Vax, I mean, Vax did a similar sort of thing for sure. You definitely had some sort of thing there. And if you didn't know, Jason's background is very much in BSD and public, not just networking. We're here for the networking. Maybe we'll, we'll, we should do some history talks on some of the old stuff. Yeah. We're a couple of graybeards now. We got some of this knowledge. I mean, I own a Vax, so we still need to make that work. Yeah. Okay. I think we covered all of these out here. I think we beat the end of my, my little prose cons list here. We hit the end of it. Yeah. No, this is, this was fun. We'll have you back on. There's definitely some more fun topics to cover on there. We can do Puppet one day if you want. And you said that it was a potential topic. If there's, we've talked a lot about Ansible. I know Puppet is still popular. Yeah. It is something we actively manage and support at CNWR. So it is, it is indeed in use at companies you would know the names of. Yeah. 100%. Like we, so we were for a handful of years, actually probably for four or five years, we were a service delivery provider for Puppet. So we were doing Puppet consulting in Puppet's name. And there are some very large companies using it. I think these days, a lot of them moved over to, it moved over to Ansible. But yeah, I think that's one that'd be fun to get Jay on for too. Yeah. And I definitely, I think Jay's actually done some work with Puppet as well. So he used to work at a few places doing large scale enterprise automation just like you. So fun topics all for next time. So thanks everyone for joining us on the Home Lab show and see you all next time. See you later.


Okay, welcome back. Just to reiterate another announcement that I had mentioned in the beginning of the earlier class, that there would be an assessment that will be put up in this coming week, which needs to be completed. This comes to the add-on of your marks for your final score. So please do ensure that all of you attempt the assessment. The assessment will be based on the first five chapters that we've done up until now. It will not be applicable for the last chapter we did on communication. It's only the first five chapters, so please do be prepared. And there will be a set of questions which are multiple-choice questions. So it will come up on your classroom. It will be there on the stream, and you just need to click it and ensure that you've completed the test before the due date. So we've been looking at the elements of a good marriage and we just finished our understanding on communication. We're going to be coming to something that's again another very important aspect of marriage is knowing how to resolve conflicts. Now conflicts, as we all know, are inevitable. It is something that is normal. It is natural. It's something that happens in every relationship. Yes, and I'm sure all of us do agree. So even in marriage, even though we may desire to have a relationship or a marriage that is away from conflict, there are times that you will find yourself in arguments, in quarrels, in disagreements, which could be very simple. Something as simple as like I think Avni and I were talking about last time was maybe having a wet towel on the bed or even something that is quite intense in itself, which could lead to a lot of disappointment and pain and hurt and strife within the relationship. So it is common in marriage. So what we are looking at is not to have a marriage which is conflict-free. That I think is it's abnormal. Where there are two people that are going to come, there are ways that are going to be conflicts. But the goal of this chapter is to understand how do we handle these conflicts? How do we navigate through arguments and disagreements that may come about? And that's the essence of what we're going to be learning. So it's a skill. Learning how to manage our conflicts is a skill. Okay. Maybe we'll just quickly, probably a two-minute time to share. Why do you think conflicts happen? What are some of the reasons conflicts happen in your homes? Just to ensure that all of us are awake and we're all here. You can put it up on the chat. You all don't have conflicts at home? Oh, okay. Great. Okay. I'm getting some. Okay. Someone said, Shrikumar said misunderstanding. Samuel said ideological differences. Okay. I think that some people put up their hands. Okay. Or just how we were raised up. Okay. I think she, I think I thought I saw your hand. Food preferences. Wow. Okay. All right. She? Different priorities? Different cultural backgrounds. Different cultural backgrounds.  Your viewpoint of life. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. So different cultural backgrounds, lack of understanding, cultural differences. What else? What else has been common at your homes? Culture. Okay. Really, Tarun? Okay. Dressing styles. Okay. Interesting. Who's going to have the last word? Is that it Rupa? Okay. Laziness, lack of sensitivity towards others. Okay. Not having a clarity in the responsibilities that we have. Okay. Being North and South Indian. Okay. Differences in cultures. Okay. Anything more? Anything else? Any other reason why conflicts do occur? Yeah. So if you look at it, there are very many reasons that you can parent till start. Yes. I was actually waiting for that. Yeah. Upringing of a child. Yes.  So there could be very many reasons why conflicts do occur. Factors of money. Yes. Even, there can be even parental influence or influence of in-laws. Right? Or priorities. Or I've, you know, we've seen couples who've had doctrinal differences that give rise to conflicts. So conflicts can occur in so many different ways in certain reasons. So in short, a lot of this happens because, when we, conflicts do happen because we are different. There is a difference in the way that, not just the way that we are in our personalities, but there are so many factors that makes us different. That can be, and we're different in so many different ways. You know, it could be biologically, it can be physiologically in the way that we think, the way that we problem solve, the way that we emote. So there are huge number of differences between a man and a woman that in itself can cause conflicts. And of course, there are those, many of those issues that we spoke about, other factors that we were talking about. So one of the, one way in how you can minimize or bring down conflicts is first of all to build an understanding of these differences that are there. Okay? That we have been created with. And sometimes just understanding this in itself can help to bring down expectations or it helps to resolve certain ideas or why the person has said certain way and certain things in itself. It really balances that out. So what we're going to just quickly look at is to understand some of these differences. Okay? Then some of this, even as you read through this, you may find some are quite, you know, it's also scientific that it is also understood quite scientifically that there are these differences. So there are some innate differences. To begin with, and usually the class has a good laugh at this one, just to understand that anatomically, even our brains are very different. Okay? So the male brain is much, although it's thicker and strong, it's much smaller than the ones of the woman. And if ever y'all are interested, you know, there is the series by a Christian pastor. And his name is Mark Ganga, M-A-R-K Mark Ganga G-U-N-G-O-R. And it is on YouTube and he has an entire series of this of, you know, man and woman being different and the way that he articulates it. It's wonderful. I think if you'll ever get some time, you know, please do go back and watch it. Maybe I think I'll put the link up on the stream so that you can, you know, have a look at it and learn from that. Okay? So, yeah, so, so anatomically also, the brains are very different. Women use a lot more of their right brain and men use a lot more, they heavily work on their left brain. So on their left brain, on the left brain is where there is a lot more of problem solving, usually tasks that need to be corrected and found solutions with. Whereas on the right brain, you know, there is, there is the ability to multitask and being able to do multiple activities at a point of time. So even the way that we use our brains are also scientifically seen to be different. Okay? So if you look at the, you know, the women's brain, there are a lot more of neurons that connect with one with each other. And that's why you would, you know, it would amaze you that most, most women, and this again may be a generalization. There may be some men who can do this as well. They are very, very good at multitasking.  They're able to, you know, write up a note to their friend all at one go. So that's the difference that you may be seeing. Whereas the male has one activity at a time, one thing at a time, complete one and move into the other. Again, this is a generalization. So don't get offended if you are not that way. But in scientifically, this is what it's specific talks about. And there are, you know, papers and there is a link, there is a note in the book for information that you can get if you are interested in understanding these physiological differences. Okay. Apart from these physiological differences, there are also differences in the way that we, we use some psychological process to operate in our lives. Right. So the way that we problem solve, the way that we think, the way that we feel, emote, the way that we may be sensitive, our memories. There are these differences that you would also see. So if you were to take on problem solving, you know, yes, both men and women are able to solve problems equally well. But the, their way of doing it, their approach to it are quite different. Men usually problem solve, they take it as an opportunity to show, you know, to express their competence or their strength or their, you know, to ensure that, you know, whenever there is something that has to be solved, it is done. So it really looks at their competence, their ability to problem solve. Whereas in women, they usually do it in a form of an interaction where, you know, they would like to share and discuss and bring it out in a relationship. That's why you'd see mostly, you know, when men and women go through the same problem, men would, could generally would probably either go out play maybe a football game or they may play a game on their, on their mobiles or, you know, watch a soccer match or a cricket match. And then they feel that, okay, you know, that's it. They figured out how they would like to solve their problems. Whereas women, they will immediately call a girlfriend and say, hey, you know, come out for coffee with me and then talk about in length and discuss it and churn it and mash it and then finally figure that they have, that's the way that they, they have resolved that issue. So it just demonstrates different ways in how we may problem solve. We are on page 110. Charles, we're on page 110. Sorry, I'm sorry that I didn't think yeah, we're on page 110. Right. So does this a result to people I'm talking to or is this just my observation and my experience maybe thumbs up or thumbs down or smiley or something will help me see that okay. Yeah, okay. Thank you, Sam. Anybody else? Or am I completely off track? Yeah. Okay, great. Okay. So I know you're here with me. Okay, so that's that's some way that we we could problem solve the another point of ways. How do we process information? How do we think, right? So when we look at men and women, there is a, there is a book by Bill and Pam Farrell and this book's name is called men are like waffles and women are like spaghetti. So what they say is that, you know, men work in compartments, like if you've seen a waffle, there are these little boxes in the waffles. So it does not interlink with one another. The interconnectedness of one thing in their lives with another is quite limited. When they have an issue at work, it is an issue at work. When there is an issue at home, it is an issue at home. And there is an issue with plumbing. It's an issue with plumbing, right? But whereas for women, they are more like noodles or spaghetti that one thing runs into another so much so that an issue on one part of their lives can affect the other area of their lives. They are so interconnected and it overwhelms, overwhelms, it's overwhelmed with the other kind of factors that they are in this, in them. So, you know, something that impacts them at work is bought back home, you know, has a bearing on the way that the food is cooked. There's a bearing on the way the children maybe do their homework, the way that the table is set that day. So everything seems to be more interconnected to one another. Everything seems to be interdependent on one for women. Whereas for men, they focus on one thing at a time and the more limited number of problems they have to solve, the more easy it is for them. So they're very linear in the way that they may approach a task, whereas women could be more cross-sectional. It affects different and multiple areas of their lives. So these are differences even in the way that we think.  And the poor man is really unable to decipher and understand what the neighbor has to do with the fact that, you know, he didn't pay attention to her that morning. So everything seems so interconnected and for the man to really decipher and understand that gets difficult. So it is important for the woman to understand that they don't work like that. They don't connect hundreds of things together. They are very, very compartmentalized in the way that they think. So that's the thing about thinking. The other is about memory.  And if she was to ask you, you have absolutely no recollection of what she was wearing yesterday, right? So women have an ability to recall memories because it is very intertwined in their emotions. So all of those events are intertwined in with the emotions. They remember, they recollect things because of the way that they feel about it. So experiences or events that have similar emotions have come maybe in a common theme. Whereas men recall events based on the task or the activity or some strategy that they used that they remember. They probably remember it because of something that maybe a holiday they remember because they went in this blue car and there was something that happened there and how they were able to resolve a situation. So men recall it very differently from the way women do. So I think women on the group, be more kinder to your men when they are not able to remember things like birthdays or special occasions. Do you remember what happened 10 years ago on this date? It's a difficult thing because they are not as emotionally wired as a woman may be. So that's a difference between memory. When you're looking at sensitivity or the way we react, women tend to be more reactive than men are in most cases. Whereas men are more controlled in their reactions. So that's why women are able to build more meaningful relationships because of their ability to be sensitive, to empathize, to share, to see others' perspectives and emotions. Whereas men connect easily through a shared interest or by doing things together, which most probably will be something that is more active and physical. So if you are to peek into a conversation between a group of men and a group of women, let me hear this out. What would the group of men be talking about? What would the group of women be talking about? This is just to ensure that you are all with me. What would the group of men be talking about if you were to peek into their conversation? Say it again first. I said what would the... If you were to peek into a conversation between a group of men and a group of women, what would the group of men be talking about? What would the group of women be talking about? Okay, Anita said men would talk about matches and games, men talk about sports. Yes, Shay? So women would talk more about dresses, fashion, the last Emmy Awards. So then men, for men, more politics, world politics, football, soccer, cricket. Yeah, those kind of things, making money, investments. Yeah, yeah, thank you Shay. Samuel? Samuel? Okay. Okay, sports. Samuel said men talk about sex too, yes. Men talk about how we can meet again and how, okay. All right, so what do women talk about? Just women talk about children, food, okay. Men, what do you think women talk about? Women talk about family issues or neighbors, okay. All right. I'd like some responses from men. Men, what do you think women talk about? Women talk about husbands, okay. They gossip, women God knows, men no woman knows, okay. They have no idea about what women talk about. Oh gosh, okay. Women gossip, I think someone said TV soaps, okay. Women talk about TV soaps. All right, okay. All right, okay, that's interesting. So I think you've got the flair about what conversations happen, right. So they like to relate to each other and any conversation that brings about relationships. That's what they talk about. Men like to talk about tasks, things outside, how do people solve it, all of that. So that's how you see that there are these differences. So why is it important to understand these differences? The importance is to be able to recognize and also know and understand that these differences can be ways in which one we are made, we are wired that way. God has given us these abilities wired us that way. And it also helps us to change our understanding. When we change our understanding, we are able to act correctly. I'll give you an example. Let's say there's a husband and wife having a conflict about something, okay. And often you would generally see that let's say there's a conflict and then both of them have walked away. And maybe often the husband probably goes and either sleeps or he watches a game or he may get into work. He gets into that problem solving mode. I'm going to do something about it, figure a way that I can just problem solve. Even if it's not that situation, just problem solve and I'll be able to deal with it. Whereas the woman comes back to the man says, I want to talk to you. I want to talk to you. And the man is in that position of needing that space to collect himself back. And that causes a conflict in itself. So just being able to understand these differences that okay, in a conflict at a time of conflict, maybe it is important for the woman to understand he needs time to just settle himself to regain his thoughts to come back to some form of normalcy. And for the man to understand she needs time. She needs an open space where she can talk. Okay, so unless and until this understanding happens, we do not know how to act differently. So when we fail to recognize these differences, that's when conflicts arise and that's when there's frustration, disappointment. There is arguments and it leads to a breakdown. So while we understand these these differences, we also learn to respect that each of us are different and we serve each other according to the needs that they may be. They may be that they may be portraying just also keeping in mind that even through our differences, there are ways that we can come back together to resolve our issues. Okay, so when the one of the scriptures that specifically talks about this is, you know, in first Peter three seven, it says in the same way you husbands live with your wives with the proper understanding that they are more delicate than you. So what it means is be in a place of understanding not just for husbands, but even for wives and treating them with respect. So knowing when you have a correct view of differences, you, you begin to perceive each other differently. But if you have an incorrect view of differences, it will lead to disagreements or challenges that that could that could later be more difficult to tease out. Okay. All right. So what happens when when we are in conflict. So what is what is your first response when you are when there is a conflict, what happens when there is a conflict, what, how do you, how do some of us respond here. So something that happens. Okay, so the way that when there is a conflict, one of the quickest things for me to do is to shut down.  I don't, you know, I move away from there as as an initial response. Okay, so how is it different for for y'all? Okay, we're all human. Okay, so it's okay that we may not have the best of responses. Okay, my husband shuts down and I'm hovering there to talk. Okay, there. All right. Yes, Shay, it was that a hand that you put up earlier or no, not sure. Okay, so how do you respond when there are conflicts? Yes, Shay, go on. No, sorry. I put my hand earlier, sorry, but I can share mine. Yes. So for me, every situation is different. Sometimes I deal with the situation right there. Sometimes I'm required to hold on till I really think things through before acting. Sometimes I'm quiet for a while just to give my wife the idea that look, you've done something wrong. I need you to reason this out. So every situation, every situation for me basically, he forced, I can't say particularly that this is how I did, but I can say that most of the time, I'm usually just quiet and just give it some time before I talk about what happens. Okay. Thank you, Shay. Okay. Well, we have a man who talks more when there are conflicts. Wow, Tarun. And does Lena talk less? And Charles says he talks less. Okay. All right. Yeah, Tarun, I don't know if you've unmuted. No, Lena is saying, see, I sleep more, I don't talk more. Okay. She also talks more, we just, yeah, interact a lot when we are in conflict. Okay. Okay, good. That's nice. Okay. So there are different ways that we respond. Okay. So in conflicts, something that generally happens is our responses are the way that we maybe could be in a place where we are angry, we are hurt or we are offended. Okay. And that's a normal defense mechanism. When someone says something to you, criticizes you, the flesh comes up and says, hey, defend yourself. Okay. And that defense comes in the way of an offense or a hurt or anger. Now, these are normal responses. However, what we need? Yes, Charles. Yes, Charles. Thank you so much. Someone was sharing with us where, like men were talking, like men talk, and then he told us that if you want to lose your battle, when you're talking to a lady or a woman, shout, shout at them. Then you will have lost. They will have won you. And it has guided me and I have now won a lot of battles. Whenever something comes which is boiling me, I don't shout. I don't talk a lot. I keep quiet and I find myself winning. But the moment I shout, I will have lost. And it has worked for me. Thank you. Thank you. I always give this example to my counseling couples. I say, when someone is angry, it is like talking to someone who is under alcohol intoxication. Okay.  You lose your judgment. You lose your reasoning. And you're saying something that you are not aware of. And being in a position of anger is the same. Right. You are in such a heightened sense of emotion that you lose judgment of what you're saying or what you're thinking. And the advice that I give the spouses is at that point of time, just like Charles said, simmer down. Do not talk to them. It's like talking to someone who is intoxicated, who is inebriated. Right. So do not get engaged in a conversation when someone is angry or in a heightened sense. Because it's just going to worsen. It's just going to add up to the conflict in itself. Okay. So when we were coming, what we were coming to say is that during conflicts, it is true that the response is anger. The response is offense. The response is hurt. Now, the feeling of anger, like I said, is a normal and a natural emotion. It is something, our emotions are like barometers. It tells you where it is going off limits. That's what your emotions are meant to do. And it is God given. So it's perfectly okay to have the feeling of being angry. What can become sinful is when we permit our anger to take over us, to control us. When our anger becomes destructive, when we act on that anger, that later we begin to see that what we did has been painful or has been hurtful. So it is a normal emotion. Anger, sadness, all of that, normal emotions. And it is okay that we feel angry. But what we do with the anger, how we express it, is it being constructive or has it taken on a destructive phase is what really matters over here. So we must be careful that we do not let it out. We do not lose it. We do not lose control over it. So before it loses that place of control, we need to pause. We need to time out. We need to ensure that we have bought it to a place of stop so that we can go back, reflect, figure out what is going on inside of us and then come in and deal with it. Okay, that was the question. So is there a good anger and a bad anger? Okay, I wouldn't define it as a good anger and a bad anger. But there are times that you need to have the anger that will spur you into an action. Like for example, you're walking down the street and let's say you see somebody abusing someone. Okay, maybe a man abusing a child. Okay, there is that sense of anger that will help spurs you into action to help or to restrain or to give some kind of support.  So it really matters how you channelize your anger. So the anger is an emotion that will come, but how you channelize it is what really matters. Is it used for something that is constructive or is it moved on to something that is destructive. So channelizing the anger is important. If you look at Jesus in the temple, there was anger there. Anger for the fact that the house of God was being violated, was being misused. And as he expressed what his anger was over there. But make a note over there that Jesus did express that anger without bringing about hurt to another. But expressed it in order to protect what was given or what he wanted to preserve as the temple of God.  Okay, maybe physically, sexually by somebody. There needs to be a sense of anger so that you can respond in a way to help and protect your child or protect children around. So there are ways that you channelize this anger into something that is constructive or something that is that is destructive. Okay, so if the conflict were to get you to a place of anger, often we do know that if we aren't in control of it, it can lead to different ways of expressions, which could be abuse, which could be aggression, which could be in different forms, it could be either through language, it could be through behavior, it could be through words. So ensuring that we come to a place of a pause and stopping the argument then and there and coming back later to address the matter. So if you do see anger, pause, press the pause button and come back to resolve it. We will be looking at steps of conflict resolution in our next class and but we're going to probably stop at a place to understand that in anger we do not proceed on dealing with an issue but pausing it then and there so that we can come back at a later point of time to address it. The other thing we need to be careful when we are in conflict is to not avoid. Very often and I think a lot of times when there is a conflict because we do not know how a conflict may progress. We may avoid even discussions or bringing it back into some form of a resolution and what happens is when we avoid it will fester, it will rot, it will decay. It's like you have maybe some, for example, you have a rotten apple at a place where there are good apples. It's going to affect the rest. If you don't take that out, if you avoid it and leave it there, it is going to grow on the rest of it. A conflict that is avoided or not spoken about is going to fester and those suppressed emotions will again lead to a greater issue and it can lead again to a breakdown of communications. Certain principles when we are angry, press the pause button if we are extremely angry, do not avoid a conversation. Come back at some point of time when things have calmed, when things have simmered to be able to address that. What are other ways? Sometimes it's just not avoidance that we do. There are other unhelpful responses during a conflict. Some of them are of course being aggressive. Being aggressive is shouting and using abusive language, throwing power against the other so much so that the other one is weakened to even respond. So aggression is an unhelpful way. Suppressing your feelings, bottling up feelings, not bringing it out for an open discussion to resolve it can again be a very unhelpful method. There are certain approaches that we may use that derail resolving the conflict. For example, when you are asked is anything wrong, it looks like something is upset. No, I'm fine. Nothing is wrong. And I think that's a response many women give. Nothing. Is there anything wrong? No, nothing. So those are indirect approaches or when you refuse to maybe probably when you're upset banging the door or kicking the dog, these are all indirect approaches of resolving conflicts. But it needs to be bought out in a healthy way. Other unhelpful methods is not talking about the conflict to the person who is involved or to your spouse, but then maybe talking it out to somebody else, maybe friends or others or parents. That's seeking that help and approval from somebody else. So generally, you know, when there are conflicts that occur, when you do discuss it with specially your friends or your siblings or your parents, you are going to get validation and approval from them because they are yours, right? Very rarely would you actually have someone who uses wisdom and says, you know, go back and discuss this with your spouse without me giving you any forms of a form or any idea as such. Okay, another unhelpful response is being unwilling to forgive and holding on to those offence and to that hurt and not letting go of the pain that seems to be in there. The last one being the silent treatment, not talking at all. Okay, refusing to communicate at all. So these are all unhealthy ways of how conflicts are resolved. We are called to be able to engage in a way that is mature. Now, why does it become difficult is because there are a lot of emotions that get involved in dealing with a conflict. So like we said, you know, emotions are God given and they are like barometers that helps us to figure out what is going wrong. So how do we engage in a good and a healthy way is being able to describe how you are feeling and what you want and what you need. So often when we are having a conflict, it's, you know, I've observed that the content is what is actually discussed about.   You don't care about me. You know, you have so many other things to do. And that's what we think we're engaging in, right, maturely. But if we could describe how we feel rather than saying what I just said, which is a very poor example of how you would engage maturely, would be saying, you know, it hurts me when I'm waiting up for you. I really look forward to have a call from you. In that way, I understand that you're thinking of me, or that you respect me, or that you know that I'm waiting up for you.   So when you describe what you feel, what you want and what you need and not what is going wrong or what your partner should be feeling, it helps in engaging in a honest way. So honestly, coming up in sharing and confronting the emotions that you may be going through is a very helpful way in dealing with emotions, dealing with conflicts. So when you engage, look more into expressing what you feel, what you want and what you need rather than the content of what has been going on. Okay. Another way of engaging, of course, is ensuring that you do not criticize or put them down, put the person down or have any forms of insults or blaming or saying anything that will put them at a place of defense. So engaging with, engaging healthily also means to take the current issue, staying in the present and keeping away from the urge of bringing up older issues from the past. Okay. If there are issues that's coming up from the past, it just means that the earlier conflicts have not been resolved. Right. If you're not able to stay in the here and now, and many things from earlier has been coming in, it just shows that earlier forms of resolution has not really worked or it has still been unresolved. It's still an unfinished business. So engaging maturely needs to happen in a way where you come in tune with your own feelings also understand the emotions of the other as they are expressing it and coming to a place of following certain steps of resolving conflicts, which we will be talking about in our next class in detail. Okay. Now, if while you're working through these that we've said or even the steps that we're going to be talking about next, if you find that it is hard to do so. It is important to get support and help from anyone who could objectively help you walk through the process of conflict resolution. Sometimes when the emotions are run extremely high, we close our eyes on being objective. Okay. And being in a place of willing to hear what the other person saying. So in a case such as that it's always helpful and good to use the help of a counselor or a pastor, or someone who you trust, who can be as an intermediary help like an inter like like a mediator who can help in not immediate a facilitator who can help in bringing out information or bringing out emotions through the situation of the conflict. Okay. So next week we're going to be looking at seven ways or seven steps on how that they're quite simple in itself and it is something that that that we see in scripture that we can apply as we look at ways of how we resolve conflicts. Okay. All right. Is there we have another two or three minutes is are there any questions if not we can close with the word of prayer. First I just want to say thank you, thank you very much for what you're teaching us because that's and even though some of us are not married yet but it's helping us to be prepared for that for when you get married. Personally, I'm usually when when when when in conflict or when someone offended me. I cannot shut the person out I not shut shut shut them out completely but I'll avoid the situation so I'll, I'll not speak talk about it but I'll find a way of dealing with the person so that we don't end up in the same way so either not seeing, seeing them as much as I used to or talk to them as much as I used to or just like move out go somewhere else or find other friends so yeah what they're teaching us it's helpful. Thank you so much. Great. Thank you, Maggie. So I think we will throw a lot more light on that. You know so is it okay. Is it right for us to, you know, maybe maybe we don't shut the person off but we shut down and sometimes when we shut down, we find that we are lost in our own thoughts of anger and offense that creates certain thoughts, disrespectful thoughts about the person we are in conflict with, leading us to be in a place of unforgiveness and a lack of love. So as we go through those initial steps, when we're going through the next class where we are looking at those steps, it will help us to come to a place of being prepared within ourselves because in conflicts we first of all have to deal with our own hearts first and our rightness with God first before we can go, we can be in a place of actually bringing up, bringing it up in discussion with the other. So thank you. Thank you for that. Okay. Charles, you asked a question. Is there a way of toning down the matter we are talking about is itchy and needs more concentration? Is there a way of toning down? So I think what you meant is when somebody is angry, is there a way that you can calm down is what I understand you've asked. So something that I do with couples is especially in couples where the intensity of the emotional intensity is very high and that they are able to recognize it. Both the couples are able to recognize that the environment, the place is getting extremely intense. What I help them do is I say one of you needs to take the initiative of I mean the speed of discussing the topics and chapters. Oh, okay. Oh, is this going too fast? Charles, is it going too fast? Yes, to me, to me, that's why I'm requesting to me, because everything is lovely, everything you talk is real matter, it's content, it's deep, so that's my request. Okay. I understand Charles. Okay. So what I do is, you know, the next two sessions, we're just going to be dealing with this. So I can come back if there are specifically certain things that you would want me to repeat. I can definitely do that in our next week, because I've kept two hours for the next section, because I know it is quite heavy, there are many things. So yes, I will definitely do that. Definitely. Thank you. Thank you, Charles. Okay. All right. So shall we close and may I request somebody, Anita, could you kindly close with the word of prayer, Anita? Yes, ma'am. Thank you, Lord. Thank you, Jesus. Father God, we give you glory for the precious time, Allah Father. Father Lord, thank you for the new insights, Allah Father, Lord Jesus. Thank you, Lord God, that we could touch to the issues, Allah Father. Almighty, Allah Father, untouched. Almighty, Allah Father, unspoken, Allah. Almighty, Allah. They give you glory, Allah Father, Lord Jesus, that there will not be any area in our lives, Allah Father, in darkness, Allah. Almighty, Allah Father, that your light, Allah Father, would bring out. Almighty, Allah Father, Lord Jesus, would strip of you, Allah Father, whatever is not right in us, Allah Father. Father Lord, thank you for teaching us through man, Allah.  Father Lord, we ask for wisdom, Allah Father, for each one of us, Allah Father, to apply all that what we have learned here, Allah Father. We give you glory and praise, Allah Father. Thank you for the precious time and the mighty and match the same of GSI prayer. Amen. Thank you. Amen. Thank you. Thank you, Anita. Thank you, everybody. Have a blessed week ahead. We'll meet you next week. God bless. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.


स् unbedingt रहां अेर्वान ska bhay और तैंड़ बर अने नासा को तliche kes wire लिँ उ safeguard ढ़ एक आ�丈夫 किवोВेहो. ड़, ढ़, न ळातिशी आप सब सब्माँ साहतिईमगा और उगए nahv enya प्वम, अर्वान lakh, बहुन्दाऩ Nalasidad और गईईईईईईई near have come toوم more अगरिया दीश्वाशकिय्र Everything that we use in qualitative research methodology उसदेश क्या। In qualitative research methodology अखुत कामाई निक अदाशाition क्या। Or qualitative research methodology अखुत ग़ों कचादी का ऑईचा बदेच के आए। In qualitative research methodology अखुत किर अगरिया। Which we use in different methods मैं लस्पी implemented by the data analysis कर आनीबास था असाुरी बाद मैं जो जीअणधी घेःिस्धी बEO यहाज आना जोप नाजशा सा Mayna Dejwani ज gurupa घेनरे लिकर्टंगे डरन्पागी भी तुक्रिद land normally लिकगाट उसंपिए Emba aidz आप इसको मिगसाप किया जाता है क् ficou अनन्टन्टन्टेन्टूऊँँँउइए, दो है तुपूड़ी एक रिजी तुआप कीशी और इसको हम क्वान्टन्टेतेटेशुँएच उजदे रेक करते हैजीcountry particularly we are situation let see what is content analysis content analysis may be a briefly defined as the systematic objective quantitative analysis of message characteristics so content analysis we archive is the a new characteristic of the message of the message, but with the lens of the objectivity, and we do this analysis systematically. Another definition of the content analysis is, content analysis is a method of researching communication patterns. It can focus on words, subjects and concepts in text or images. So, whenever we do the content analysis, we can locate the communication patterns in social media, in a conversation, and when we talk about the message, the message may be in a word form, or in subjects, different characters, or some concepts in text or in images. Content analysis have been applied to many areas of inquiry. This is used in different disciplines, not only in sociology, gender studies, psychology, but in many other disciplines as well. For example, I will give you some examples of some studies that Merkel used in 1998 to see the naturally occurring languages. Then, there is a study that was published on the newspaper coverage, then there was a study on the letters to the editor, and then there was a study on how the different genders of the characters are portrayed on the TV. In the other example, there is a study on the mathematics of Turkish elementary school. Then, the questions asked by the patients and companions in physician-patient interactions, there is a study on that. There is a study available on the web page and Google group Threadness, and there is a study available on the emotional tone of social networking comments, and there is a study available on the linguistic substance of the writings of a 19th century explorer, leading up to the suicide. There is also a study conducted on that. So, if we talk about the uses of the content analysis, then it identifies the intentions, focus, and communication trends of an individual group or institution. Content analysis is used, we can identify a particular individual or group or institution's intention, how it is using the messages, and what is its focus in communication. It describes attitudinal and behavioural responses to the communications. Content analysis, we can identify how different the community is behaving on social issues. It determines the psychological and emotional stage of persons or groups. There is an event where you get a response on social media or publicly, and you can see what is their emotional tone and what is their psychological state of mind. And it reveals international differences in communication content. With this, we can also see how different the communication is in the different languages and how the content differs from each other. It also reveals patterns in communication content and pretest and improve an intervention or survey prior to launch. So, content analysis is also done so that on the basis of this, you can improve the content of the survey you are going to do. And it analyses focus group interviews and open-ended questions to complement quantitative data. So, content analysis is used to analyze the qualitative data you have.


Today we're announcing that in last week the government has signed a four and a half billion dollar contract with Hanoi Defence Australia for the production of 129 infantry fighting vehicles, the Red Vax. This is part of a $7 billion program, the biggest program in the Australian Army's history. But today is a great day for the Australian Army. These vehicles will play an enormous role in improving the capability of our Army, the capability of our Defence Force. We are very excited as a government about signing off on this. As I said, this is the largest program in the Australian Army's history and it represents a massive step forward in capability. Thanks everyone.