Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host Tom. What's up, Tom? How you doing tonight? Hello friends. Yeah, absolutely Okay, add a little bit of child drama, you know that happens. Sure. Sure. Yes. Yes. All good. So it wasn't this wasn't Directly your fault. It was more like your General orbit. All right. Like it's like the this was one of your satellites or one of your moons That was causing an issue and the is that orbit, right that the gravitational pull that just like just messes with everything in the system Yeah, and look, I I lived like I will be the first one to as Tom will tell you to come after him when his own BS Delays us or gets us late or screws around because Tom is never on time like many people I know Tom is like punctuality and Tom do not go together. This the situation was only made worse Yeah, when you had kids You were always terrible about this and then you had kids and it just got worse because people who are bad at time management We didn't have children. It just becomes a train wreck. Okay. It magnifies the problem It's like sending an alcoholic into the middle of a distillery. All right Um But at any rate in this case Tom is not to blame. It's not his fault. This is just having children I have nothing but grace for Tom because Tom is in the end and I will say this about him He is a great dad. And so there you go. I've and he's raising good kids. So that anyway Let's talk about some Warhammer that's what we're here We're gonna talk about the future of what we think dawn bringers are gonna be we're on the we sit here on the horizon The book two is just about to come. We'll be talking about book two in the dawn bringers thing next week But forget book two. That's already old news We got to talk about what's coming in book three and four and where it goes from there So we're gonna we're gonna do what we do best on this show, which is just Happily Yeah, haphazardly responsibly predict things. Yes, exactly. There you go. I mean that's what all the best YouTube shows do Anyways, correct. Correct. Exactly. We're just we're just just joining the all of this all the YouTube greats here Uh, so but first off, of course, we've got some news um news How about that rumor engine? How about it? It's a it's a weapon. It's a it's a sword. It's a it's a flat sword I think it might be I think it might be 40k Like normally i'm always the one to be like, no, this is a os, you know, I just I look at this And it just it reads as 40k to me and I don't know why I think you may be right I really the actual reason I think you may be right Is because We've had so many weeks where I'm pretty confident it is a os they got to throw 40k something So this is like the 40k week Uh, that's that's so I don't think you're wrong there But either way Super boring rumor engine. This is just like the most boring of rumor engines Because it's obvious what it is and it doesn't look like it's anything interesting.   Yeah So And that guy was pretty cool. I couldn't but I should I couldn't I couldn't guess that was on a giant troll head for like All you could give me all the guesses in the world. I wouldn't have come to that. So, okay Uh, man Zach said could be new jungle fighters. Yeah, exactly could be like something fun like that Like uh, the aren't the catechins like super old models in 40k right now. So they are there That's what it that's what it vibes to me when I when I looked at it was like It was kind of machete esque now that's that it's definitely not like it's a different style of blade But I can see something in that space. Yeah, you you put the esque on there.  Yeah, what else we got Tom? What's next? Uh, so Let's talk about the fire claims Let's talk about them Vulcan flame seekers Okay All right. Talk about it Tom go Uh, like it's everything we've ever wanted. It's like Male dwarves mostly clothes. We have female dwarves We have little baby magma dross. We have diverse weapon profiles And it has everything They have a fourth unit. That's not a hero folks. This is such a big deal It's true. Yeah Like I can't I can't stress this enough. This is unit number four in their book. That is non hero. Sure. Sure Uh, when I looked at this I was like man, this unit could be absolutely terrible, but I want it Sure. Yeah, like I just So let me talk about some things I actually like a lot here And I'm gonna praise fire slayers for a minute. So sit back Just just hold up First off, I want to talk about whoever this has nothing to do with the models themselves But I want to talk about whoever painted these Uh, whoever the studio painters was that attacked this warband did an absolutely fantastic job I love the actual like moving to the burnt Like, uh, more lava-ish pattern in the mohawks. That looks so much better than just the straight color like they had classically done The beards are like way more vibrant and alive the the colors on them Um, like the way they're heating the light in the right ways by sort of forcing it up top into this area of the Around the mouth right like this guy on the top left Love his skin tone. Love a lot of these guys skin tones. Actually, they just they they went for a lot of differentiation in the skin tones In really interesting ways. Yeah, you thought of more reds. Yeah, exactly, right? It looks really good a lot more ruddy tones Yeah, um, I love the female fire slayers. I thought like what a what a great addition Why haven't like as soon as I saw those two. I was like, why wasn't this in the earlier range? They look so good with the like steel breast plates on Those look cool as and actually add a lot more visual interest to the models for my for my money Um The I agree with you on the varied weapon designs. I actually like the look of a lot of these weapons They still feel like axes, but they feel very like different than a lot of the other axes the split Iconography down the the middle with a lot of these things looks really good And then finally, I think the real win here was putting the little Cloaks or whatever. I don't know what we want to call those. What do you call it when it's just around your waist? I don't I don't know, but they're you know, I'm talking about their skirts. Yeah, I guess I guess it's a skirt. I don't know Um, but yeah, putting their little skirts on Actually does a lot to break up and change the silhouette. You've got the leader guy who has the cloak the full cloak um But then the all the rest of them wearing the skirts or whatever that just looks really cool If they had put some shoes on I'd be all for this I don't think we can like call them full tartans Like I don't think we're I don't think we're that far in right, but it has that kind of vibe, right? Sure Uh, and so uh, yeah a couple people are saying kilts. Yes. I I don't know. Um But either way I see this as a big win the only the only really the only one I don't like is the one wearing the little headdress of like a Magradroth baby that's been hollowed out and he's wearing it around his head.  Let me ask that, right? Yeah, like Okay, this is your dog, right? They have one of these running around with them. It's the same size This is your dog.  That is messed up stuff right there And you make your dog look at it every day.  So I killed it and turned it into a hat Messed up dudes messed up. Um, so I think I just look silly and dumb and I don't like it at all Like not just because of the funny joke of what it is, but I just literally think it looks goofy Uh, the other ones all great. I love every other model in this warband and think they actually look really good They are like boots away from perfection. That's what I'll say Um on a couple of them. They did their feet like darker like sooty Yeah And that's actually an interesting method here for sort of faking the impression They're wearing boots And so I that might be an interesting take it kind of works, right? Like, oh, sure. They're running around barefoot on Volcanic ash all day. They're Yeah, their feet would just be all black and sooty, right? So yeah, that actually makes sense So that could kind of cut split the difference And a really interesting solution like this guy over here You can really see it really strongly the dude over here on the um on the right side down here So, uh Yeah, like great stuff all around. Um, still not good like I'm still in love with these guys I still don't want to paint them But man is this like leaps and bounds over what the previous generation of fire slayers were The helmets are better the mohawks are better the female dwarves are better the Skirts are are great. The weapons are improved. Like this is just such a marked improvement Uh, it's wild Yeah I love it so much Yeah, I don't know if we've seen an expansion to a range that added this much new quality versus the old skulls Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, I agree with that Um, I am I see this and I'm like, I don't know it's more fires Sure.  Okay 16 models two dogs seems reasonable enough Yeah um Okay, Eric Dodie. No, I I I certainly hope not nor would I ever want to see that has anyone ever modeled them with crocs I god, I hope not Uh, we shouldn't be having real people wearing crocs and yet I just certainly don't want to bring them into the the miniature world Uh, no bright yellow crocs might look good out there Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm All right, cool Yeah, great stuff. Can't wait to see these dudes. They're they're great like By the standards of fire slayers by the standards of all models This is still like a six or seven out of ten for me by the standards of fire slayers all previous fire slayers This is like an 11 out of 10 It is it is if we're just judging based on fire slayers Okay, uh, what's next Um, let's talk about the uh, yeah, well and as an aside, let's get it give honorable mention to the black rims on all these Faces. Oh, yeah, I saw that. Yeah. Yeah nukes mentioned that. Yeah Or who mentioned that? Sorry. Neil mentioned that. I apologize. Yeah kudos gw. We see you we see weird We're finally on the right train. Keep it up. Okay Uh related, um, let's talk about that iron jaw speed. Yeah, uh-huh. Yep Okay. Oh vents. I gushed about Fire slayers. Do you want to you want to jump in on the iron gels? I mean not really is the honest answer um because What we got first of all, I'll say this let me talk about this Uh, the just put out the pdf with the rules Fantastic a plus. Good job way to go. That's what you should be doing all the time. This is great Remove the barrier of entry to people playing with their toys. Thank you a plus. Good job. Good guy gw like No, I have no issues putting out as a pdf as an a plus thing I want to encourage more of that. It is wonderful and thank you and great Okay, so I just want to be super that's like headline, right Now as to the units uh Like I'm going to talk about him next week when we do our full Dawn bringers part two reveal show So I'm not going to talk about just these rules when it's not all the rules because obviously the dawn bringer book will have other rules in it as well And so I'm not going to talk about like half of the rules this week with the iron jaws and versus everything else am I super excited for big pig and uh, the new brutes and and The two guys and the new ard boys. Yes. Yes. I am very excited about all of it like beyond excited about all of it And I will go into unbelievably annoying detail next week into how I think they can all be used and where their strengths are and And stuff like that. So but uh, and I will even very likely have a game in with them by then So Do you think that this is the trajectory? Like adding two armies. What are you asking me about the pdf like what we've seen here with the pdf Uh under what circumstances? I don't know I don't know. I'm just thinking like especially with these narrative updates, right? Like I wonder if this is something that they may land Uh I hope they do I mean But just with these types of like updates where army updates are buried in supplement books I don't think it'll be that common of a thing to happen They do it at the end of every edition, which is why I bring that up. Sure Yeah, I think you're right. I think that at the end of editions when they're doing this kind of other stuff That's when we'll see it and my honest answer is good. Let's do it, right? Like let's put out those things. Yes I think the majority of the time they'll just be tied to battle tones and like and life will proceed on where you can get all the war scrolls for free anytime and The you know other all all other rules you used to have to buy the battle tone for or go to wapi here or something, right? Yeah, yeah So I don't yeah, you know, eric said one is more likely an anomaly than the start of a trend I mean, who wants to either thing they did a good job here. That's what I'll say I don't I don't want to make a future prediction either way I don't know because I don't know how many options they'll have opportunities They'll have for this Suppose it depends on our later predictions as to what we're going to get in future dawn bringers books Right. Are we going to get any other major hit like this? Right So I don't know because I mean this is like in like in retrospect for iron jaws like this is a pretty big update Like yeah, it's you're adding like Not only you're adding a play style. Yes, but you're adding like a solid. What three units plus four band Uh, so well, let's talk about it here. I mean so iron jaws right now ostensibly Has four units or sorry three units, okay pigs brutes hard boys now, that's not totally accurate In the same way that you don't like you talking about this being a fourth unit Obviously, there are two underworlds war bands as well and like those exist for fire slayers as well, right? So you you weren't right those heroes, but those have heroes in them. Yeah, I understand and and that isn't nest then one of the advantages to The iron jaws ones is that they don't Okay, the underworlds war bands are iron skulls boys and then the roots And iron skulls boys have and always will be an absolute all-star As far as iron jaws armies go now So but still whether you like those things to the side it's a it's primarily a three-unit army Right, and that's been its paradigm since it came out at the beginning of aos You know pre-aos one really And so adding two new versions of brutes right Resetting one of them the art boys as to what they are and what their role is and what they do And then adding all the different big pig variations right two of which aren't heroes All right Yep So ostensibly you really have like four four and a half I guess depending on what you want to do with art boys. They are a completely new scroll like it Lits nothing like the old scroll So but you know you went from in either in either event you went from three to You went from three to seven base So that red does represent a material change to the force now what that'll manifest to that's for discussion next week But I'm excited about all of them. That's that's the bottom line It's significant to me like and some of this is just ground-setting for our discussion tonight, right? That like it's significant that it's in one of these update books that we're literally getting A renovation of an art Yeah, it's not it's not just like we're gonna throw you a hero. That's not what this is Sure Like that is a big deal and so like Like I wanted I want to put a pin on that right because as we get into the discussion like There it looks like they're willing to swing big Yep, and I and I hope so um You know like I I say this is a great opportunity to do so To build this stuff out to clean up the particulars of the army to add Units who are capable, you know, they they have been doing these kinds of things through war cry sometimes where they can I think of like the the probably the best example of that That's kind of taken hold is from the war cry 2.0 launch with the the nergal guys yeah, right The robmeyer creed have have very quickly become kind of a staple part of many Nergal armies right because they were kind of filling a role in a place that that that nergal needed something to do So yeah, I I I hope we see a similar sort of instinct going forward. Yeah. Yeah All right, cool. Good stuff Uh, I think that's all our news, right? It's everything Okay Let's do some pick of the week All right, pick of the week. Who would you like to share with everybody tom? You know, we are nine years into this Sure And uh, you'd think that I would have internalized this process Of having something ready Of having something ready. Well, why don't I sell a share mine? So my pick of the week this week while while you're clearly quickly and panically scrolling through to find something uh My pick of the week is for good buddy friend of the show sam lenz Uh, who has a wonderful new video out and it's not very long, but it's about painting angron, which is a 40k thing. I know But he's also just a big bloodthirster. So it's he's it counts But specifically it's about non-metallic metal The reason I like this video so much is because It is relatively short. This is a pretty concise video And it's a pretty great explanation of how sam thinks about nmm And I really like the way sam thinks about nmm And it's something I get questions about all the time And he also shows that it's not actually that challenging to resolve that you can sort of tackle it pretty Pretty directly And so it's just a really nice concise video Um And so I thought it was really good. I wanted to shout it out. So sam lenz artwork great artists great guy Uh, go check it out down linked below I'm not gonna Pretend that I watched anything Okay, fair enough. I have nothing to screw today. That's okay. That's all right. Um, and sorry paul I'm not willing to to take a swing on your video, which is titled racial segregation And uh in cities of sigmar. Yeah, you may want to you may want to think about that title I thought the same thing. That's uh, like I get what he's going after But uh, well, that's a title See I went with like the ghettoization, right? Like sure. That's what we used to talk about with keywords But Racial segregation. That's a big swing ball. That's all I'm saying, buddy. Yeah, you may want to watch that in your youtube titles. All right Okay, cool. Uh, yeah, no problem, but uh, check that out down below um Okay Uh, now let's move on To some hobby time Uh, tom Have you picked up a paintbrush and painted anything as holy havoc is quickly approaching And uh, you don't have that long My desk is almost clean. Yeah Okay, yeah Okay, so that's a big fat no I'm almost here. Listen here. Uh, Rachel Rachel is pushing me so hard Sure. She's like, I'm ready to get back to building. What are we doing? Why are you not painting? So Yes, so you married a good one So she's so you're not the only one I I hear it on a daily basis probably at this point. Good.  So I'm we're telling you right now tom. I'm ready to rock. I'm ready to go Okay, I'm tom. I'm already working on spring. I'm already working on holy wars, man Okay, so you gotta you gotta get in line buddy. Let's get this going Uh, okay my hobby time has been very very very busy this week Uh, I've made up for last week being gone at nova. We're right back into the mix So I'm gonna talk about this in a couple of things first off Uh, I finished up my big project That I can't talk about but it's done Okay, so I then I put this girl together This is shinobi from journeyman miniature. She's not primed or anything yet Um, because I just wanted to put her together I don't want to talk the reason I'm mentioning it is because this is actually for a display model like this Especially a bust One of the things I'll often do is put it on my desk like put it together and put it on my desk And just stare at it and like for a week. I'll just stare at it and every so often I'll pick it up and I'll turn it around in my hand for about a minute And I'll just think about colors and try to see it as a painted model in my hand And eventually if I do that long enough like I get a click of how I want the colors to fall And it all kind of snaps together But so you don't always know right away what you want to do for a model And so one of the things you can do is just keep it out there Keep it in sight and just think about it dedicate one minute of your day each day To turning it around in your hand and thinking about color schemes. You will eventually come to one So that's there. So in the meantime, well, that's percolating Okay I'm working on this big girl right here Um, and she is obviously, you know much farther along as you can tell I've been working a lot on the skin and that kind of stuff. She's a Very large model. I think she's at like 90 millimeters technically. I don't know if she's huge um But this has been a lot of fun And I want to have I've she's got like this kind of fade to green going on. I'm going to mess with that Yeah, that looks more that looks closer to like a one Because that looks like a solid like six inches Right, so like a hundred Let's see Yeah, she's a little over six inches tall So Yeah, I don't know. She's big But she's awesome. I don't know it was a 3d print and it's really fun to paint stuff like this Uh, so yeah, this is what I'm working on now And she's coming together. I'm I'm excited for all sorts of things I want to do with her Skeletal butterflies and things on her. She originally had wings But I didn't like the wings So I got rid of the wings and then just made new hair for her on the back. So Yeah So that's been my hobby time. Um, well, I'm also working on Very excited. I'm also working. I have begun the journey. Uh, she is very tall Of working on our next Adam and I's next Next game. So there's something that's done and is now in editing And then there's then and that's that's going through the process and then I'm working on the next next one So stay tuned Uh, a lot of exciting stuff there. I am mega hyped mega hyped so all right Uh, okay, so that's uh, that's everything with my hobby time with that Why don't we get over to the actual thing tonight? Tom? How about that? Sounds great. Okay. Let me bring up the presentation here But now predictions and possibilities All right So we're going to talk about our guests for the futures for book three and book four of Uh, uh of dawnbringers Okay so I'll I'll catch us up before we get into the predictions. Don't worry All right So, let's uh, let's talk about where we are right now Currently where we stand after book one. We're not going to talk about book two here. It'll we'll talk. We'll deep dive book two next week Okay Can we talk about the weird choice of red in those chaos water floats? Why? They're red. What's wrong with red? I don't know man. It's too bright They're they're very bright chaos warriors. They're proud of them. They're proud of their chaos nature. They dye their cloaks in blood or something But that's not blood. That's like cherry red. It's like they dye their cloak in cherries They've got big they got big Big big cherry bogs. Is that where cherries come from? I don't know what did cherries come from that cranberries? Cherries come from trees. I don't know bushes. What what does a cherry come from? I don't know. I don't eat cherries I'm I'm I'm I'm upset to say I don't know the I do not know the source of cherries Cherry trees, I guess is that was that was is that what they come from? Okay, I'm googling this right now Uh, the answer is yes. Yes. It is a tree. Okay, cool at any rate I didn't know if that was just like what we named to think because of its color. You never know Look, I don't know everything in the world. All right. I'm willing to admit what I don't know a thing So, yeah, they manifest there you go um, oh So Where we are in the story? right now Okay of Dave track touch grass. I'm I'm outside all the time my dog. They're into cherry trees in my yard So I'm not seeing anything. I don't know what I'm gonna see there. They don't grow in this part of the country okay so Where we are in the story right now tom if you remember back in book one What got set up is these these harbingers woke up right the sort of these four different harbingers and they start leading their forces around and Uh, there's like lots of different rumors going on if you remember there's gerion Who's the ghoul guy who's leading his forces that the noble savior of the proletariat? Right out there. Who's who's the fec ghoul leader? Yeah, and so on and so forth There's like the nurgle dude. There's the fire slayer leader who came in to help hammer hole Um oxhi, and then there's the little goblin rabble rousa and so on right and They all uh, what the the culmination But basically the end of that was we're going to go do these these dawn bringer crusades. It's finally happening I love how at the beginning of 2.0. We were talking about the dawn bringer crusades This is like part of the whole concept of 2.0 launch and it took us until the final year To get there Right. Yeah, I get it feels like Kind of disappointing right sure I remember we saw the initial art at launch for the dawn like I've got it in the in the it's it's the thumbnail for the show yep It feels like This is going to be a deep cut it feels like we've just got to constant noble Right. Like we have this crusade and we're like, yeah Let's go do this And then they like get halfway and they're like Yeah, we don't want to go all the way to the holy land. So we're just going to sat constant Like I I absolutely knew what you were referencing. Yes Yeah, we're like It feels like the build-up's just been this big long thing and then they're like We'll just hang out here, right? I just it's like I would have expected that they would have been like full on the march At the beginning of this edition and that's not what we got like you would think we would you would be leading Right with the city's book and like doing this whole redesign and that creates the narrative, right? Like then doing that creates the impetus in the conflict and stuff like that because of what's being pushed forward And it's like not dog work. That's going to push the new edition We're going to spend a lot of time mustering Yeah Arrested at Walfall house. So did they might be giants, but you know, that's just what happens Okay, so The That that what they decide is we're going to finally do this thing and they send out the the twin tailed crusades, right? So one leaves from hammerhall is leaving from is due to leave from hammerhall oxhia And one from guy ran and we'll talk about the immediate things that happen in book two next week, right? But that's kind of what's going on. So we're leading these big Right, we're leading these like big crusades out to settle new cities tame the wilderness Right, all these kinds of stuff, right? And so and and what we know is happening is Uh Is like other things are responding, of course to being provoked, right? Hence Trug and the new iron jaws and all this stuff. Yeah Yeah in book one We got our four little Harbingers our four little heroes and therefore regiments over now Yep, right our new little ally things And those have been I think decently popular especially in certain forces like I've seen a lot of sons of bammat with the the little On the little we're using the little goblin force, right? Yep. Yep. So on and so forth Obviously some of those guys were really cool. I thought the gerion Flesh of your courts model was really cool. I thought the nergal Redone guy was really really sweet like good good models But it was just four little heroes and getting little heroes is something we're very used to it's like That's how these books become over stuffed with too many heroes is you know, we got to release something And they they release little heroes, right? Um so then Book two what we know we're getting what they've already talked about is All of these new iron jaws Some new giant stuff, right? Some new sun stuff. We're getting shrug big Uh Troll trolking guy, right? Yep. So that's not a little hero like that's a huge major new addition to The the warm range in this thing and then we're getting you know, those aren't those aren't the iron jaws thing is obviously big And we don't you know the sun stuff. We don't know exactly what's there yet, right? Yep So this time we we showed okay, we can go real far with this right this can be as you said a major expansion So in the first one We had one harbinger from each grand alliance Yeah And the people who got attention specifically Were and who are still around like all those all those people survived Right, none of the none of the harbingers named harbingers died Right, right are a flesh eater courts in death A the I don't remember his name, but the whatever shutter shutter blight shutter hood something like that Shutter pox. I don't know something like that Shutter guy in nergal. Yeah Yeah the fire slayers hero and The goblin rabble rosa Okay, yeah I love that the only name I can really remember is jarian because he was such like an interesting character in the story Um because of the mythology that built up around him Like it's actually it shows good writing is around a character is when you can actually easily remember their name Even when you don't really care about the story that much. So there you go Um Chase says iron jaws wave 2 not only looks good, but gives me good feelings for ko and other armies wave 2 All right, let's let's hope so Um Oh, yes, that's right. They've also mentioned the book too has this ko grunt stock expedition force Yes Full goth's shutter hood. Hey, there you go. That's what his name is. It's good good. Good shouting out Andrew So that's where we currently stand tom. Okay What we've seen is we can get A lot of different Options here up to and including basically a full wave 2 of an army Yeah, right. Yeah And assumingly we're going to get book 3 and book 4 In the lead-up to The launch of fourth ed Right. Can you think that books? 3 and 4 will launch In this year. No, I think 3 will and 4 will be in next year Fascinating. Okay Yeah Um, I mean they got to sell us something next year so Well, right like I recognize that um I reckon like we had like two month gaps between most of the broken realms books Yeah Yes, yeah I mean those were released under unusual circumstances to say the least but yes, they were they were that's certainly true Um, but it just made me wonder like obviously we'll probably have book 2 soon Yeah, I mean it goes on pre-order next This this coming weekend. So yeah soon Um, and so that means that like october ish Right end of september october is when we now have it um, and then I could imagine Going another six weeks at least before we have book 3 Uh, sure at least. Yeah, at least. I mean my particular guess would be In fact, it's true. We're we're deep into november then and normally we don't get new releases in november November december, we don't normally get new new releases. So it's true. We've had we've many years had december armies when Tell me Reapers came out in december obviously our bone reapers. No, they didn't they weren't october army Uh, I don't think that's true chat get a chat check me They're not okay What we're gonna do here tom is you're gonna make me come over here and reference The release of every uh book So there it is Okie dokie Let's see here. So OBR, where are they at? Nurgle was a january army. It was an out of the arc. We're october. You're right october 26th All right, that's fine Uh slaves to darkness was the december army We got the box the gift box right in december. Yep But that's when the book itself came out The book in the bundle Was in december as part of like a december uh like christmas thing But the full like larmy army release didn't drop until like april or something into the indwa when that far But yeah, it was in the new year. Yeah My point is there it happened like that that did occur in december so Whatever Whatever that's worth it happened tom um I don't know if I consider gift boxes that don't have a free release of a book Like because you had to buy the box in order to get the book like you couldn't get the actual book until the new year I just I share that just because in general we don't see a lot of new releases By mid november. We just don't Correct the ogre and in in 2022 The ogre lumineth release Uh, or though the ogre release was I'm sorry was in november Right, but that was like the very beginning of november. That's what I'm saying november We almost yeah, we don't normally like we don't normally get launches from like past november 12 Right like past that week two all the way through All the way through the new year like we'll get announcements and stuff like that, but we don't normally see new product And so I only like those like battleforces and stuff like that will be there, right? But like actual launching product line No, correct They they have on occasion released books and things in in december. Okay, november december I think that the fec book they've pretty communicated pretty clearly communicated when they like to launch new army books And that's october Right. Yeah, if you look back in october that month is yes, kyle. He always moves the goalposts on me and these kinds of conversations That's what tom does um The he'll like he starts with a really hard statement and then when I prove it wrong he like pulls back Like the quine dunheim hypothesis or thesis is like a tom is just a living example of that Um, that you cannot provide a factual statement to someone strong enough to make them abandon their position only modify it at any rate the The They they do clearly love putting army books out in october like the final army book of the year coming in october If you look back over the years of aos that is a pretty common pattern. There's a lot of final army books Uh, they came in there. So like Assumingly the fec book is like sometime in october right Um, if it's if it's if it matches with everything else we've seen My feeling would be if you were going to put dawn bringers part three out that would be your november book this year Like if they were going to do a november december book it would be that That's my feeling. Yeah, something narrative. Yeah Yep, because I think they can get away with stuff like that see The only reason why I bring it up is because it just makes me wonder if we'll see If we'll see Book three in this year Like i'm wondering if we won't see book three until like end of january Just would then allow them to be book four in april within the new edition launching in um In june, you know in june july like which is the like that's that is a much more kind of normal standard rhythm Which is why I bring it up. Yeah, sure and like realistically um They Very much will still have other releases Underworlds things work. Right. Well, you know, like it's not as though the the calendar for aos goes dry Just because they don't have those books, right? Yeah Um The city stuff that still has the rest of the city stuff that still has to actually release, right? Um, so there's plenty of things they still have to release to fill up the calendar for this year Yeah, and so you could very well be right. They may slow play it and say actually it comes out january next year I that wouldn't surprise me. In fact, I'd say it's probably 50 50 Right, and then you put out the the fourth dawn bringer book I don't think they want to put out anything too close to to launch to once because realistically, let's let's talk about it this way They're going to announce fourth edition aos at adapter con 2024 Right, of course. Yep. Yep. That's the right answer. Okay. Like this this stuff has a rhythm now. Yeah That's like poetry it rhymes and um You know, so my my general yes, even chance that book three is in fall according to the roadmap If they stick to that that that's what I would say that like november would match for that now if they Like my feeling is they'd want the last dawn bringer book out before that Like once you've announced your new edition people's excitement about buying books of rules for the current edition Falls like a rock and you might think well, that's crazy. We're all sitting here right now In september of 2023 saying we all know fourth editions coming next year because they're on a three-year cycle We all know they're going to announce it at adapter con so we know when that's going to happen, right? Yeah, why wouldn't everybody else know this? Well, the because the reality is a lot of people Surprisingly not everybody watches this show. I which I still take personal offense to uh But the Joking aside, there's a lot of like low-information players out there who aren't aware of like the the rhythms the cycle stuff like that But when they announce the new thing at adapter con that will like go wide enough to permeate those circles and once that happens those people's Buying proclivities All right, so She's in general, I think they'd want to have it all released by the time we get to march whatever whatever 2024 Hey, Caleb. What's up, buddy? Good to see you Uh, I'm sure Caleb part of a family that has to be very excited about this right now I I I want to know what scooters take is on this. It's got to be uh, he's got more more pig action He's got to be a great day for scooter. This is a day. He's been dreaming about for years Uh, so I'm curious to get scooters hot take at some point on on new pig options um The man who has truly defined what it means to be a gorgon to iron jaws player for years now um All right So I think that's basically our timeline right my guess is book three Let's call it October At earliest january at latest and then book for january at earliest march at latest That's my That's fair. Yeah Okay, so that's our timeline And our setup right, so now Let's get into that real tinfoil hat stuff.  It's so easy. It's just clicking a little button Subscribe fun stuff like that. We appreciate it. It's as easy as it's as easy as clicking a little button Okay Let's talk about what's coming up next Armies and sub factions Let's start here tom Okay So book one Again very fast review FEC Nurgle fire slayers Gits all got touched in some way. Yep. Okay book two Gits again double tapping iron jaws sons of badmont uh KO all got touched Okay, so we have eight armies That have been touched so far All right, seven armies have been touched so far one of them that have been touched twice. I apologize. That's what I'm trying to say Yeah, okay So clearly we've learned one we can repeat Right If it's a popular enough faction, I think that would be their measure Give us something that we can expand there Yeah, I think gets is popular enough It's a hugely popular army and to me. I think it's popular enough. They're like, yeah, we'll double dip on this Now I think gets is done. I don't think you're gonna see gets in book three or four That's it. They're they're over now. They got there at their time. Okay so What's our book three picks tom? Who's up next book three book four? What would we expect to see? I won't hold you to like specific Uh books. We don't have to say separate three from four in either book. What are we what are we gonna touch? Who needs The touch we're not going to talk about what exactly they're getting yet for the moment. We're just going to talk about the things they're doing Well, I think lumeneth could always use a little bit of a socket Such an under such an under touched faction, you know, they've had so little since their initial launch um Okay, all right Yeah, that's true. Charles said the roadmap says book three and four are both coming this year Book four could be delayed, but they haven't even confirmed the series only four books I'm guessing that the series is four books because every series they've ever done is four books They seem to really like that that thing Okay, they love the four book cycle All right, so tom what is coming in book three or four and importantly why Okay So you said lumeneth. All right, so lumeneth is you're at your first pick What and why like like not model-wise just like You know, okay. Why why lumeneth? Why lumeneth? They take that back. I think we're gonna get lumeneth in book four Okay, um, I think we're gonna get a shift to old goo as part of this And I think that lumeneth are inherently gonna be part of that shift to old goo But I don't think that that's gonna happen in book three um My question is is do you think that we'll have a cities Like a uh cities of sigmar Like touch in this at all. No. Yeah, I don't yes. I like I know they got a new book, right? um But I just it makes me wonder They're the protagonists Their book is their entrance in their entrance in the story Okay, okay So they're inherently out. So who do we have let's like let's look at over the the potential players Okay, um for order. We have fire slayers Mm-hmm. They've already been touched Uh, I mean have they though? Yeah, they got a hero Uh, and they're not a popular word. They're not getting my vote for their book one They're they're not they're not getting my vote for getting touched twice No, that's fair. That's fair. Um, and so we have potentially doc um idk lumeneth seraphon Stormcast and sylvaneth Yep All right. Okay, so I'm gonna state that I really think book three We're gonna get something sylvaneth Okay, we'll talk about models in a moment, but we're gonna we're gonna put our guests Sure, I'll put so like my vote for book three. I'm gonna make a note here. So I remember to come back to it later Okay Because I'm I'm planting a flag when we talk about models on the next slide I want to I'll then we'll expand on our guesses, right? So but the first is why okay, why sylvaneth? One It's a very popular faction Okay, people love sylvaneth two One of the tales of the twin-tailed comet Or the twin-tailed expeditionary force is marching from hammerhall guy ran Yep, just like where The sylvaneth live Right, right, right like they live there and so you know A big part of the story Miss not a miss like not appearing in this story, but but still relevant to it somehow was uh, a l'oreal in the first book like the whole A big part of the whole setup in the first book What allowed them to like grow a bunch of food and get these expeditions ready and stuff was her like Healing rain waters that fell down Right Yeah, but they but they haven't been touched. I mean you've got this huge human force right pushing out Which is kicking up all the nergal to come fight them like that's Happening in the story who's also another major player and guy ran, right? Yep, and so it just makes sense to me that we're going to see sylvaneth enter into this Discussion they just have to it's it's like their plane. It's their realm I mean, I know they exist in other realms too, but but this is the main one Yeah So I just I can't see them. It feels like they're going to be the next pickup If if book two is like the the expeditions go forth, right then book three is going to be consequences Right and the first one that's going to happen there Is the sylvaneth being like hey, hey, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa Whoa, this is not my Batman glass right like immediately So that's my vote who else you got? Um, well if that's the case, uh, I'm gonna lean and suggest that we may see some beasts of chaos Now here's here. Here's my catch for beasts and this is what I'm unsure about I'm ready man man that line needs a refresh okay and so How like if does it get touched lightly? It's a huge book Yep, right. Yep Like we know we have an fec book coming this fall I don't know that we're gonna see we might see a spring book as well, but I don't know That we will right And so we'll certainly I don't think we're getting any other army books until fourth edition That's what I'll say right no, no, and I would agree with that I would agree with that And so if that's the case, um Like it just it feels like uh, that beast could always use a touch Um, and they could potentially double dip there and do both beasts and zinch Okay And that that might be inappropriate. Um, because where you have nergal you may have zinch a sniffing around as well Um, he has often the the two enemies are paired together in some sense And so what I mean by that is with the dust up with the pushing in we may see some aspect of that So I could see um, and I think that and I don't think this is It's not just my predilection like the zangor are um Have been a a draw like something that's like popular within beast of chaos style Um, and so I could see them kind of capitalizing on that and then them getting to basically play in two spaces With both the disciples of zinch and then also beasts. So I think that could be possible and if we have those I could also um, see us get some cruel boys, um because If you already have like so if you're already playing in that space narratively, right I could see cruel boys being another antagonist or another point of tension Let me say this I think you're right on beast and zinch, but I actually think it should be a book four. Yes Okay, let me tell you the justification for my thinking here. Okay I don't think they're directly involved in anything that's like in in the immediate sense of what's going to happen in the story right So I think like book three is consequences and then book four is like the shake out that then leads us into fourth edition right And so since we're back around this will come to my guests later, but since we're back around to like probably having a chaos Starter box We're going to kick the hive of chaos Into into overdrive and so book four. I think we'll touch multiple chaos factions in the same way we touched a bunch of destruction factions this time Okay, okay So I think I think having both zinch and boc fall into Uh Into book four would make sense for me kind of what's happening with these chaos forces what they're doing on the move What's that where they sit after the results of this right as we lead into a more chaos heavy season Right because they'll want to use book four to like launch pad Everything else that's gonna that's gonna happen over fourth and they'll so if it's gonna be chaos as the main opponent again Right, which is what we're back to Then we'll need to get all of the pieces set up Okay, and so I think that's why you put that in book four. That's my that's my take Okay, how do you feel about that? Maybe I mean the only attention or the only the issue that I would have said I think that um Like I have a pretty clear vision of where I think they're going to go with the new edition Right and the new chaos army, which we'll talk about that in a moment. Yeah We'll talk about that later on um, and so I think that um A lot of what we're going to see is order overextending. Yep And then I think that what's going to happen is is that um Then we're going to get a chaos faction and jump into that cap. Sure okay Are we after this book we got a double dip on Gets we touched iron jaws. We touched Uh Sons are we just done with destruction now? I don't think we'll see anything with bones splitters. Um, I could see something where cruel boys honestly, okay, let me give you my vote for ogres in book three Really? Okay. What about So, okay The other half of the comet is in hammer hall oxha, right? Right and if you kind of look on the map in the first book There's a bunch of ogre pits or ogre maws or whatever they're called. I don't know like there's there's There'll be ogres in them hills Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay And So like they are very ready to easily introduce in the story like if you look at like where this action is taking place There's a bunch of different like ogres are around here Yeah, right.  Oh, yeah, yeah, they're like there right and in the space Yeah So but but so you think that we would get to what I'm hearing is sylvanath corn ogres The that's book three Yeah, we probably need one more they seem to be we'll assume they're gonna touch four that seems to be what they've done twice Um, so that's that's basically two in oxha and only one in gairan I think you're like my my issue is cruel boys actually kind of make sense Like as an army that needs it. Yeah Yeah But do we have another hit? I like touch of destruct. It's like so much destruction action Yeah, right. Well, this is this is the destruction season It's true. That's true. So maybe this is like their last big hurrah All right, like they're gonna go out as as sort of the uh, and antagonists of the uh, of the store there We will have an over emphasis of order though if that's the case uh Or like an I let me say not an over emphasis a An under references rather of oh sure. Yeah, I mean we'll have almost no order armies actually touched Sure, sure. I mean it could be I mean, like I said, we got selva nothing here And we haven't talked about what's in book four because I do think I I have a feeling on what's in book four I'll talk about in a minute because I think there is an over army there The when I just think about like What armies need a touch that have Some kind of justification to be messing around in gairan Right. Yeah Like what What possibly who's possibly in this space? One of the big problems is I don't know what death's doing here at all Like we've got that flesh eaters messing around in aksha and that's fine. Like I get them Okay, or sorry, I didn't know they're messing again, right? But it's soul blight really showing up in uh, the realm of life, right? I mean, yes, and yes, I know there aren't dead and I know they go into all the realms blah blah blah blah but it's like they're not they don't Neither obr nor Soul blight nor night haunt feel like they're really a big part of this or would be In there in any way in the narrative. Yeah. Yeah, and that that just shuts off that whole rest of that grand alliance Right, right um Now You could touch nurgle a second time But they really really really don't need it Here's a funny question go for it. What about seraphon? That's an interesting pickup Okay, okay, what if we were I mean, they did just have their book, but sure At like a co-last focused seraphon Living in the jungles of giro. They do that is a place they live. Yes That is a thing And they would be an order army where you could get a proper dust up, right?  Yeah I don't hate that. I kind of like that. I don't know what it would be But we'll talk models in a minute. By the way, it's not always necessarily models Right, right, right So, okay. Okay. I'm gonna go with that. I like that tom. I'm gonna say seraphon's a good That's a that's a good pick for other book three one. So book four Right Yep And like it's clear that they proved to me with book two like the first one they said, hey, we're gonna touch every grand alliance It's gonna be one for each, right book two no Destruction almost all of it and then a little bit of order Right, so they're clearly willing to lean one direction Okay Is book four the lean chaos version of that? Does it have like another chaos force in it? I don't know what that would be But we've talked about boc and zeeps. They've got two chaos forces at least in there Right Now let me give you my other hot pick for book four Okay Okay Doc Okay Well, I think we do take a turn towards old do I do I I we don't need to turn towards old do Okay Sure Sure Um Okay so in Um Marathi right She uh, she took over a city Yeah, yeah You remember this yes Yep Okay, so she took over anvil guard Yeah Yeah and Anvil guard Is not in Nor the new version of it Right, what was it called now hark hark you're on right? Yeah That's what it got renamed It's in oxy It is it is okay And if book four is about like The other pieces move in and set everything up well Sigmar's forces are going to be theoretically like weekend or they moved to their positions or a bunch of different stuff has happened Right, the place has gotten shaken up. Now's the time to reintroduce. Hey, by the way, what's happening over in hark you're on Right, what's happening in in ex anvil guard city? This was one of the major cities of sigmar. It's not that far away From hammerhall. Yeah. Yeah Okay Um in the scope of infinitely large planes And you could begin to tease Right. Um You know, you could be get you could get some foreshadowing Um with them as well with regard to malaria and Exactly if we believe malaria is going to be coming if we believe that the shift in a os4 Does will take us to olgu which I tend to agree. That's the plane will go to Yeah, okay And if we believe in that release cycle at some point in the three-year period will get malaria Yep, then having marathi as part of the setup stuff For the next edition That would make sense to me to touch to touch doc in book four So i'm gonna push back and say then that our fourth set of armies Is lumineff Because I would would suggest that it's marathi pushing out and I think lumineff counters, okay And that becomes the narrative impetus for the introduction of malaria and in fourth Okay, so we have two chaos and two order forces in book four. Is that your is that your pick? Yeah, I think so. That's where I'm at. That's where I'm at. Um I could also see by the way if you didn't do lumineff you could also do slinash as the excess Of doc So if you didn't If you didn't do the turner play of uh, lumineff you could do The excesses of harcaron invoking slinash Then inviting slinash it Yeah, well, I don't think marathi's gonna get free in or sorry marathi. I don't think um slinash is gonna get free in a in a Uh Dawnbringer crusade book right like I just I don't think that's I'm not slaying. Sorry like no, I understand that I understand that I I'm not saying you're implying that I don't I'm saying is if you're gonna set up if she is gonna get free in fourth at some point like if that's it We've been teasing that for a while Okay Uh You know Archeon went in there and started busting chains And then he got culled away because catacross was wrecking his his His toys So If we're gonna set that thing up to happen sometime in fourth Yeah, sure. You could you could touch that you could you could do that So now she could be the other one All right, let's put that down as an option as well because we could go it could be the mirror Like I said to the book too where it's like this is the chaos every time like three Chaos in one order that would mean very little death touch over any of this by the by Which I mean they last edition was their Edition so they are the least likely to have development narrative development Nagash has been right now, right? Like that's what happened at the end of second edition Was not Nagash got his teeth kicked in and and vanished to non-existence Sure, I want you he reco less right like he's so awning right now So like I I would anticipate that that death is not a major player in what's happened. Okay Um ready to roll does raise a good point that he said they did bring back the lion in the 40k arcs of omen book Which was huge that's a fair also a fair point bringing back the lion was a big move So that's fair It's fair Okay So it could be but I just I don't see him finally cracking those chains I think they want to do that in the lead-up to like whatever the next Lanesh book is Yeah, yeah okay so So what are our predictions are here our book three selvaneth corn ogre seraphon Book four boc zinch doc lrl slanesh. We'll go a little wide on the last book Maybe they maybe they break the cycle and have five in the last one. Who knows they can always zig when they're gonna zag Okay, well and potentially the the beast doc could be one thing like it could just be Beasts Beasts as primary You mean beast you mean beast zinch Being zinch. That's what I mean Beast zinch. Uh, well doc disciples and chaos. Sorry. Um Our disciples zinch. No. Yes dot. Yeah doc. Yeah, my brain's not working right now. I apologize. Oh good Uh, but so it could potentially be um It could potentially be that like that chaos pairing that we had named of beasts and zinch Could just be one one thing. Yeah. Yeah, like beasts perins Mostly zinch stuff Yes, yeah, and so then in that sense both get touched in some sense. Yeah Yeah, maybe they get like a melee disc riding hero and some other stuff. Yeah Keith roger said slanesh gets out Is The story arc that gives us tirion the army's guarding the prison would be freed up to do other stuff That's an interesting point. I hadn't thought about that. It's a really good point. Keith. I like that a lot Uh, Dave track says the death book should set up events that lead to miss tovin becoming the new mordheim It's a nice idea though. If they have any brains in their head Mordheim will release with the old world like shortly after the old world at some point because That's the exact appropriate place to put that thing Uh, so if they if they literally have if there is anyone on that side of the specialist game studio that has A working brain cell they will just re-release mordheim as a specialist game product Alongside the old world at some point Yeah, and it will be successful Yeah, probably more successful than the old world itself. Yes Um because people love mordheim. Um, okay All right So let's talk. So that's our that's our army predictions. Okay, cool Let's uh, let's go on to new models. Let's do our new model predictions tom. Here we go Okay, so we've got our we've got our factions down Now it's time to talk about models So let's do I've just got some samples here of some of the best models we've seen so far namely big pig and gerion The fec harbinger my two favorites out of everything we've seen Okay uh, so What are we seeing in book three sylvaneth corn ogres and seraphon now We know with ogres Uh, we've already gotten new gorges right um from the um Uh, excuse me from the the that was that It's like a war cry box it. Yeah, the hunter dudes against the ogres. Yeah That's where that's where it's from. So we've got that new we got them new gorges them sweet new gorges. Okay Yeah Do we use this opportunity with ogres? to just get Uh to just get a new freaking butcher and slaughter master for the love of everything holy is that what we get here Uh, I'm in that's the case. That's a that'd be a beautiful update Okay Here's the other option The other option is The ogres come in not in the way you think The other option is The forces of the crusades need some additional muscle And they because then they come in as mercenaries. They hire some ogre mercenaries and we use that to introduce new man-eaters Like a completely revitalized man-eaters sculpt and just like that could be one big crazy kit Okay, they'll let you assemble a bunch of different fun and exciting man-eaters I could see that Um, and then that would actually fit the like Many faction like the support faction format sure Right like the like the regiment style sure Like it could be a named regiment of man-eaters. Yeah Um, I'm inclined something like that. I think narratively is that's way more interesting than they just encroach on uh ogre terracotta They just they just make new ogre models because we need to make new ogre models Yeah, yeah Like I think that I think the man-eater is a much narrative More interesting and by the way, you could still do the butchers if you want to do the butcher and the uh and the The slaughter master the slaughter master like the that would be perfectly appropriate. Sure I think, you know To me, uh, oxy is a very mercenary plane Um, you know, it's the whole point of the thing is it's full of like hotheads and and warmongers and stuff like that Right and people just fight all the time to fight and and Mercenaries are very common. Um, you know, there's even been like there's lots of Um, like dark oath and and chaos mercenaries that will hire out and work for anybody Even right. Yeah fire slayers mercenaries like it's a very Common thing. So I think having the ogres work like that Um could very much could very much slot in pretty pretty darn easily um So I'd love to like my first choice to be that give me them many give me like a sweet three-man man-eater kit that you can build in Let's say six different ways just to be generous Okay, there's to be conservative. Sorry not generous conservative Nine different ways if you're generous, right or or near infinite if you want to play that route like where it's like Oh, you can actually put different accoutrements, right on them um But but like primarily they build into sort of six major body builds or something like that, right? um Like three sets of legs six sets of torsos you get it, right or six torsos And then a bunch of different arms and and heads and weapons. There you go. Hopefully that would be the kind of kit um Okay Uh, all right Tom you said seraphon Do seraphon get any new models or are they the ones that like are they not going to like be any Any model stuff go for it? They get one Okay, I think we get big pig style Okay, what we get is we get a big long neck brontosaurus variant Oh, okay Like a hundred and fifty mil pipe plate Wow, okay I think that we get one kit And I think that it's like the apexosaur or something right where they like lean into Like they lean into like they because if you look at all of them like all of them are brands on like standard dinosaurs for the monsters sure and um Like this stegodon is stegodon, you know, like it's a triceratops triceratops. Yeah We don't have like a brontosaurus is at your point Yes, we don't have any long necks, right? And so it could be something like not just like a Like it could have some interesting like Uh, like spiky tail or you know, like there are some like these there's no like stegosaurus, right style thing And so it could be something big like that big and I don't know scary Okay, like you don't really have any centerpiece big monsters outside of the carnosaur Um, and even the carnosaur is not on like a huge huge pipe plate Sure, he's just a standard cherry-based guy. Yeah, and so like Something like space wise filling that dreadsaurian style So is this like a war platform in your mind? Like does it have a ton of skinks on the back and stuff like that?  Yeah. Yeah That's what's in my head Yeah, and like a full unit of skinks like 16 skinks just hanging on for dear life Okay Yeah I like that My vote would either be they get that or they get no models That's that's a little because they had such a major line refresh Right. I could see them end up being like the the sort of like KO type of thing where I'd say, oh, they get they get attention and focus, but they're not maybe some rules, you know But they but they don't have any new models like you got your new models earlier in the year be happy with what you got Yeah, yeah, and right. Yeah, I could I could just imagine something big like that. Mm-hmm. Sure Like filling that filling the hole that the the now Um, you know departed Uh dreadsaurian Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay So I think sylvaneth I still I I really do stand behind sylvaneth being something that's going to show up in this book three or whatever Yep, because of the march through guy ran But what are we saying for sylvaneth's? Uh What are we saying for sylvaneth's model? Do they get any new models? But what happens with sylvaneth? Um, so we we've updated with bugs. So that aesthetic, um Something so they could go two ways, right? Um, one would be some type of dryad style update Right because we haven't had anything with them in light years Um, so I think they could or some type of new kernaughty like something big um and beefy but not full on Uh Tree person Right because I don't think it'll be the hybrid spirits Sure Okay, like we've gotten a lot of those we've gotten a supplementary unit of that and so I'm leaning towards um Something that is either kernaught or um Yeah, something like that. I think if they were to do it Okay. Yeah, I mean a lot of people earlier were shouting out kernaughty As being the hopeful thing they wanted to see for for the sylvaneth expansion My guess is it wouldn't be that big But I think if we're going to have sylvaneth I think they want to actually use them as sort of in an antagonist way in the story And if they're going to go that direction Then to me What you do here is You get yeah, you like what you mentioned about draka's stuff Okay So we're get something new in the spite line Yeah, like draka like spite revenants Something dark like that Okay, okay, okay Maybe it's a new it could be could be a new foot hero like could be a little mini draka You know, which race spite revenant character In much the same way that the sort of the The tree revenants Kind of have a version of like their hero like a thing that kind of looks like them in the arch revenant tree revenant arch revenant Yeah, it kind of aligns, right? And So like you'd get like an arch spite Yeah revenant, I don't know you do you get what I mean, right like a hero ish that Yeah, yeah, I think could could be a direction that you'd go if you were going to get the single Model If you're gonna do the single model take it's dark. It would fit with the antagonist stuff It's an open hole in the line where they could stick another hero in They keep trying to make spite revenants and draka and all the dark silver nothing like the dark fey But they it's like it just doesn't have enough of this stuff in the book.  Yeah Oh, anthony dancer said spite magi Neat that'd be a cool name. I like that um, I dig that So something like that. I think if you're gonna get the single hero I think that or either do something like a spite coven like lean into like the hag ish sure Yeah, like Have a trio of spites that function like a like hag coven Yeah, I would that would be cool as yes, like the the three The three the sort of the three witches the three fates like playing to that piece of fairy tale slash Mythological lore. Yeah, sure. Absolutely.  So that's that's a good one. Tom. I think that's a really interesting pick um at the same time They could have like almost along that same line. They could have like the spite kernathi version Yeah, okay. Yeah, like something in that mid-range model size could be the same thing. Like you mentioned We're rather looking at like war like berserkers. Yeah, right like would they bark partially flayed or something like that? Yep Yeah So like despite full kernathi, right that are sort of mangled twisted kind of angry You could call the chard or something like that and they could be like partially like burned. Yep. Yep Embersworn I like I so I like all that. Yeah 100 percent 100 percent Okay, that leaves corn. What are we doing with corn here in book three tom? More foot heroes more foot heroes.  Sanguine champions Yeah Like the last thing they need Is more Uh, is more heroes. I think we can all agree on that Uh, no the answer is dogs Um, I I think the answer for corn is to lean into dogs And you do a great hunt style uh corn thing Right, um, which is about um Yeah, I don't know maybe Uh, brawny mate just said new valkia in the chat. Of course That's an eat like that's to me. That's a low eating fruit like they have to be new valkia at some point. Yeah Um What if they did new Um new Goodest doggo and valkia Well, we already have a relatively new karnak. If that's what you mean Like karnak himself is not that old. He comes from the the launch of aos Does he really? Yeah Yep We got new car new new karnak and new dogs at basically whenever that corn refresh was in the end times But the valkia one makes sense that feels like the perfect call like a replacement unit for corn. I I completely believe Yeah, like again, I could see valkia for sure Um, scaling her up to not be tiny Yeah, she's way too small I I mean, I will say this karnak is Um, he is like made to order right or like like aren't like he has a restricted ordering status Um, I just don't think we're in a replacement on like a eight-year-old model Yeah, it's possible so What else would you want to see in corn? Like we could get new bigger dogs What if we got like big elite dogs? Right like and that's what I was imagining is something along those lines Something be she'll not just crushers not just dudes Sure And another area of development that they could re return to would be the throne slash bull cannon stuff Like the chariot s Um, they could re explore something like that in the priest sphere Because there's a lot of priest stuff. I like that.  Yeah, absolutely Would you have it actually being pulled then by fleshhounds? rather than by No, you could by juggernauts Or you could do juggernauts, I guess. Yeah I think you like a big heavy corn chariot that's like rolling out right and And has like a priest on it Like the war altar equivalent the old the old empire war altar for the equivalent but for corn, right? Like the blood altar Something like that And Yeah, get that out get that going with With some juggies pulling it. I think that could be pretty freaking amazing So, yeah, I mean it could replace the blood throne or not. I mean the blood throne is the model I've always wanted to be good, but it has sucked consistently basically forever It's just has never had an identity. Sure Digital zero says if not a foot hero, what about something in the vein of a slaughter priest on blood beast and not a juggernaut or skull crusher But an actual huge monster. Sure. They've shown willingness to do weird huge monsters in corn Like weird huge blood blood monsters um I think that could be That could be something. Yeah, sure. Absolutely um Meganosh says how would they give a chariot with jugs and and not redo the actual juggernauts? Oh, I mean That would that would not be that weird. I would absolutely believe that would happen But I just think like a juggernaut drawn chariot with a big, you know Alter on the top or something would be cool as the only thing that might that might wave them off something like that is they might think Well, we already have that The the skull altar, right as a terrain beast And so they don't want to have a second one of those But maybe that's exactly why they do it because it acts as a sort of second mobile skull altar, right? Um, and that like that you never know how they're going to break with those kinds of things, right? Um, okay, cool. All right, let's talk about book four then and some new models over there BOC so you're leaning to BOC zinj. Do you think it's is it bird stuff? What do they get? Do they get they get zinchy bird stuff? Uh, I think we get an update of the cockatrice model And I think we get a new disc hero that is a melee based uh zancor An update of the cockatrice model and a new melee based Like what kind of zangor like you're saying not that just the regular zangor on foot now What do you mean? Can you break that out for me?  I could uh I could imagine like a zing or herd leader Or something like that as a melee style hero on a death A zing or swinging a big ass weapon Right on it. Okay. Um, and it would be a real interesting tech piece that would then could then show up in both Zinge and like as in like an eight wound hero Sure, like a really cool zinge melee bird zangor on disc Okay Yeah, and that would be a weird like even in zinge armies it might have Right.  I don't hate that at all key said plastic blue scribes Yeah, if they go like the boring just replace a hero route replacing the blue scribes could absolutely be something down because that model is it's trash So like getting that replaced or the doom bull replaced or something like that would all be Would all be good if they were just gonna like go the the single hero Let's replace an old model in the range line. I think both of those are viable targets That's worth it Sure, sure. Oh god. Yes, dear lord.  I mean that could be again That could be a way that combines like do a zangor chariot right, right So like replace the old tusk or chariot with a new zangor chariot right Like a bigger bird chariot, so There you go And yes, Keith rogers says one of my friends has a doom bull on a flying carpet It was a conversion for an old warrior fantasy magic item. Oh, yes I know I remember the flying carpet doom bull very well. It was a very common build Many people have doom bulls on flying carpets in their in their armies if they have them for a sense from fantasy Yep um Okay I like that idea. I like that idea a lot tom. I love the idea of just like a real cool melee Zangor disc hero to kind of compliment the shaman. I think that's a good idea Um Nothing like that exists in those armies sure sure Okay, cool Uh, I like that um all right Sinesh and or lrl. What are we doing with these? What are we doing with these things? Are we getting anything actually new here? Or are we just setting them up in the story? It feels like if we were going to do anything where we set two armies up in the story and just had like Some new rules or a new sub-factiony thing or something like that. This would be the one to do it with these two Yeah, but being in gi ron like I could imagine another Anomaly temple being introduced, right? Okay, like Um, not that we need five more units and another sub-faction, right? For little lumeneth, but I could imagine it okay I don't know that they're gonna like it feels to me like if in both of those cases The ranges are really big They've had decent enough action over the course of aos Right and uh And so if they were going to uh Go for those things It could be just like it could be a single new hero for each And we call it a day But they've had so many heroes both of them so many foot heroes. It's almost hard to imagine The space that they would take there right um So It's it honestly both those ranges make complete sense to me to like show up in the book But they but I cannot trace the models that they would have almost at all How about a new daemonette model? Okay, like re refresh the baseline daemonette. I mean Let me tell you why you might be right I have a thought Okay, because polgrim coming Uh, no, no, not not that not that Um, by the way, just real quick here stigmas maxima said they do seem to be really leaning into ogreides these days So part of me wonders if we'll get an ogreid thomat thomaturgical unit um I thought about that for like minotaurs or ogreids with your beasts and zinch like having zannogars zannogars Like we've got the way we've got slan gore. We could get like the The zannogars or or or the bigger You know what I mean? You get it, right? You got what I'm saying? Yep. Yep. Minotaur zinch put the two together birdguide minotaur's at any rate. I could see that as being the other unit. Okay Let me tell you why I think you might not be crazy On the daemonette thing We got that It's not it hasn't come out yet, but it's it's like that it's coming. They announced it. Remember we reviewed it came out They announced it at nova, right that slanesh Uh thing it's like a underworlds warband, right Yep, and it has the the three slanesh models in it are New day are daemonettes But they're three very different daemonettes than anything that's out there in the current daemonettes, right like they're wild To the point where it feels like those three Could have been test sculpts or early sculpts for a refreshed daemonette unit that they were like Well, hey, we've got these three. These are like the best three of the lot Right, let's not waste this. Let's do something with these Okay And so they were like, yeah, let's just pack them up and call call three daemonettes an underworlds warband What can you do with like they they just you know, they they make these models and they're like, what can we do with these? And the underworlds guys are like, well, sure. We'll we'll take them. We'll do something. We'll figure it out right So that's what makes me think you may be on to something there Because maybe those are just the test run for that And what we actually get is a new daemonette unit that has lots of mixed body types and Different sort of bondage gear like they're all wearing and so on and so forth, right? I can see that So Okay cool That leaves one more in book four for new models tom. All right Okay doc I think this is actually an army where you get a lot of space. This is not a it's not a huge army No So Because we've gotten so much kind of snake blood. Do you think we'll go back to witches? We could go back. Well, we did get the the new high gladiatrix at some point, right? So that was a new foot hero on the on the the witch sister of slaughter paradigm, right? You've got three frames I love that right in the in the doc army for the most part You've got the witch frame You've got the snake frame the medusa frame, right? And then the canary frame Right the sort of gargoyle and gargoyle, you know, I mean a winged frame Okay We've got some decent snake action Like we got we have a snake. We have a foot snake castor foot snake melee foot snake shooters foot snake melee, right? But canary are still a pretty limited part of the overall army, right? They don't have a hero or anything like that that would come from it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm I can see that So something more with like the winged canary or we could shove two of them together What I mean by that is like winged snake ladies like have some canary like an elite canary Uh melusa unit, right? Like you put put some wings on a snake lady that kind of thing Yep I think there's a lot of space you could you could work with there In that arm. I I could see that I could see that that would be compelling. Sure You could um Basically it just becomes like mini murathi 2.0. Yeah, sure. She's a winged snake lady, right? She's a big winged snake lady. Yeah, like little her her little homunculi that she makes she makes some new people specifically in her image right her Her image as it were the shadow queens image I think that'd be sweet as Right some some actual like winged snake troops Yeah That'd be great And then as grumpy said I'd like a monster in dock that isn't a rathi herself. Sure That would be the other option, right? We get an actual monster kid in there of some kind Yeah, I could do that. Um, they might want that to be An army that doesn't really have Big monsters in that way, you know, like they're kind of closest thing is the statues the walking statues But I don't know Okay, cool good stuff There we go, we've got them all what didn't we miss or sorry, what didn't we say? Sorry, but what didn't we miss? What did we miss or what didn't we say? Um, if you're watching this in the future, put it down in the comments. Tell us what you'd like to see for that stuff Okay Let's go on past new models. Let's talk about the story atom. I know you're gonna have just all sorts of ideas here For what to do with the story um But let's make some broad predictions Here we go they Still the nether are upset because they're pushing into qiron and so vengefully pushed back um, the same with oxy I think that uh We'll get some of the dusts up in book three book four for oxy We'll be we'll be marathi trying to expand her hold and threaten the expansion of the dawnbringer crusade I think it's the opposite Or like you're right. Yes. Yes, but for different reasons. I think you're dead on Let me see if I can thread the needle up the heck. I just said to you Marathi wants to expand her territory and her power won't that's her thing Right like always The dawnbringer crusades will probably largely fail All right to the point where The hammer hull itself becomes weekend and under threat All right, they like this is a thing that they'll they'll they'll pull And who swoops in to save why mentioned hark you're on not that far away From hammer hall who swoops in to save the day why good ol marathi's here. Don't worry Don't worry forces of sigmar I'm here to help okay All I request Is some concessions Right and she's not going to get hammer hull like they're not going to get rid of like the flagship city of of the realms, right? Like they're not going to destroy hammer hull auction guy ran But like so she's not taken that over like she did anvil guard but Like I could see them seeding something pretty major to her Right where she swoops in and asks for major concessions to that like she gets some permanent place You know like In the city some hold she has some place she get like some foothold in azir Right in sigmar's realm itself like something like that Right. Yeah, I could see that I think that's what brings her in she she swoops in as a savior at the last moment She's always sitting around there Just waiting for the moment where she can show up and have somebody over one Sure, sure Right Yep Okay I think largely what'll happen with like the silveneth and everything You'll just go back to status quo like don't mess with us. We don't mess with you Um, I think that down our trees What's that? Why are you cutting down our trees? Right. Yeah, exactly I think the I think mostly that as I said, I think the dawn bringer crusades will will end in failure And just be like crazy hubris. I think that at the base of this and somewhere uh The We're gonna get what what's actually going on with zinge in all this I think that's where he shows up in book four Because again, what's going to happen after the the crusade sort of collapse In book one, they talk about it's this this weird stuff hinted around zinches meddling and all that. He's another one of those like um He's another one of those like uh Sir not appearing in this story, but he's still influencing it, right? And quiz it or said they'll never destroy katia. Yeah, sure.  Um Like katia has been around for a long long long time hammer hull has been around for you know, whatever six years I don't think they're gonna they already they felt one city I just don't think they're gonna go back to the well at the end of two editions of having a city of sigmar fall Is my point. We already did that last edition. They need a new trick so in book one when they talk about like The way some of the fires were burning in oxhi to handle the plague One of the like inquisitors becomes suspicious because the fires are burning in some kind of Very unusual pattern that he like cottons to Right. Yeah, and thinks like basically zinches hand. Is it work here like setting up some some chicanery Yeah I think that zinches gonna keep screwing around in the background of like every book until he eventually reveals what his His silly master plan is in book four right And and and then like that's when he plays his hand. I mean, it'll fail like always Because zinches plans are always just like long build-ups for that end in disaster It's basically his story as a chaos god, right But that's what they'll do with him Okay, that's my feeling What else do we who else do we have to? Uh What else do we have to touch on there? What do you think you mentioned seraphon? What do you think's gonna happen with seraphon? Like what's your what's your what's your story play without seraphon get involved here? Is it just big stompy monsters come and get involved or is there something greater going on? No, I think it'll be pretty grand list. I think that their involvement is big stompy monsters. Okay Like they're not this isn't like croaks move the great wheel or the great design or anything, right? No Okay I think it's probably the same for ogres like ogres. Just you know, they're there It would be interesting It would be really interesting If we got mercenary type ogres and they ended up having more of a place In the civilized world in some fashion It'd be neat if we added like a second dimension to any destruction force That wasn't just like the probably destruction force. They're all so mono dimensional. They're just completely uninteresting narratively um I agree with that. I I don't know that the dawn bringer crusades are going to end in a failure. Okay um I think what we'll actually see is They're they're seemingly Successful And I think that that's where the zingy trick Is like alluded to Like I think we'll end with success, but we'll end on a cliffhanger That'll point to like not all is right Like I think the the success of the cities is going to be a set up. Okay Okay Inviting them the sigmar and company to into overextending Um and saying like this has been successful. So let you know like look look you were successful in Establishing these new cities and Giron and all that.  Right? Like yeah, sure type of thing where like we've we've successfully Uh solidified this very ashy pit in oxhi. Sure that that happens to lead to um to ulgu Or something along those lines and they're like, yeah, let's do it and so they go and Go to do their setup and I think that's what brings them in conflict with the scaven Interesting, okay Um because where I think we will end fourth edition Yep, well, that's next that's the next slide, but sure set us up set us up Like I think This like so I think scaven obviously I think scaven are gonna be the back end Um, we'll get like a necron full line rip right like the whole deal right like we're gonna see everything. Yep And I think that they're gonna go all in and I think where we'll end is we will Um, I think that The beginning of the edition will will herald Um scaven getting in the mix in a major way And I think the narrative like hook at the end Like again, so now I'm like what four years in the future. Um, I think we're gonna move towards the breach of stigma Interesting I think because I think scaven are the ones that do that Okay, and um, and so what I think will happen is that they will leave the breach of sigmar on Like the sigmar into asia into space station sigmar. Yeah into space station sigmar and that may be the narrative campaign Um, and then that then is what brings about the freeing of slanash And what I mean by that is that because they threaten home base All guns get focused in Yep And leaves slanash undefended Okay, like tirion's forces are alone and then he ends up not being enough because you know Our he on shows up or whatever whatever and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah right and because we're an old goo Malarian has been introduced but hasn't maybe even able to like You know like he has been pulled into this conflict, right? And so that's what gets malarian tied up to not be able to lend a dive Gotcha Okay And then the end at the end of the season four with the freeing of slanash That's sort of that that's sort of the culmination to the end of four into five I think so like I do something and not hold all the elves into the narrative Okay And yes travis there are there are some skaven in azir They can occasionally work their way in but for the most part the way is shut Like they can't a few skaven can pop through here and there like they've talked about that in the stories But it's the difference between a few rats here and they're getting in spying and an army at your gates attacking the space station Right like azir is more than a few rats here and there Or an army opening your gates. Yeah, exactly Okay, that's good. I like that. I like that idea like the idea that the that some of the Uh, that the dawn bringer actually succeed succeed, but they succeed kind of spite at themselves and maybe because of like other Things like oh zinch wanted this thing to succeed and wanted this to happen It's all part of his wacky plans, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's a good call. That's a good call. That's interesting I like that take I like that take because we know that zinch is deeply embedded in the cities Yeah, exactly like that was a big part of zinches reemerge right like yes, correct I mean he basically built gray water fastness because one of his like one of his super top Sorcerers was the one who like helped them do all of the the incredible building at such a rapid speed. Yes Like not they didn't know that they didn't know he was as each guy, but yes Excelsior's as well, right? Yeah, and so I think that that's the key was zinch is that I think Like yes, the dawn bringer for say is successful all according to Right. Sure. No, that's a good call Yeah And so then like it truly becomes the dawn bringer crusade As this celebration, but it's not something to actually be celebrated is it will actually end up leading to threatening the whole king I like that. That's fun. I think that's a nice setup. Tom. I think you might be on to something there for real I think yeah, I think that feels really good Right where like they succeed the they succeed because Almost chaos ends up helping to some degree and I still like my Marathi saves them idea, right? But she's again just ends up being a pawn in this larger scheme, right? Well, and that's in that again plays into Like that complies into zinches like if you know, if then Marathi gets more involved in these particular realms Her attention is drawn away from this Lanesh prison and then we can flip into fourth into really paying And we jump over to Ulgu where then we can draw All of these different elves away and into other shenanigans and then yes, boom then so that's just for you Well, and not only that if you'll remember Solan ash is trapped between light and dark Yeah, you already had the light introduced Yep, and so like this is the like this is the other half of that Yin Yang situation. Yeah, he's in like the umbrella or whatever between and direct The direct point between right, but that's the point right like that's like we've already had introduced light This is the perfect opportunity to actually like Be in shadow. Yep Play with the scale and stuff and then have that launch into that here All right. Nice. Nice. I dig that I dig that Uh, okay, cool. I think that's uh Yeah, there you go Kyle Nelson says the Kansas City shuffle whenever one looks left you go right and freeze lanesh. Yeah, that's pretty good It's pretty good. So that kind of brings us into the final thing Which is just to close out on here, which is like, what do we think out of this will be the setup? for fourth edition, right And to me Yes, I think like your setup for fourth is I want the launch box to be cities part two and scaven, but it'll probably be stormcast and scaven I think it'll be a combination of cities and uh stormcast Stormcast, okay, it'll be stormcast unit with cities one to part two. Okay And like is the setup that that azir gets breached in a bigger way Is that the setup for the the actual box set? No, I think that I think that like what what is the excuse to have these two forces meeting directly? They were so successful in the dawn render crusade that Something happens that they have it looks like they have an Ready to expand farther into old Okay, got it. So because it does Yeah, so we've got the stormcast basically plonking down hard into ulgu And then when they're they meet All of the ash and rats that are redesigned because that's what's in the sort of launch box, right? And then everything else is close to the launch box. They overextend They overextend into ulgu Of like we've been so successful. Look. Oh, let's just go also like jump on the other side of this Drop down the city and and like establish a beach had an ulgu And zinge is like, yeah, you should do that and then they do that Find themselves infested with rats. Yep Okay, which then invokes the larger verminus horde. Yep Okay, and then that starts this like back and forth thing Uh, and then I think like I think at some point narratively like it will Anate in sigmarone being threatened or breach. I think that's book one by the way of Of the next narrative art. Oh at the end of it like somewhere in fourth That's the setup like azure Space station sigmar gets breached. That's the like gets breached. That's and then that pulls forces back and so Course of secondation. We're playing the shadow games with spies and infiltrations and malaria and coming out and like Moving all these pieces on the board, right for then ultimately This thing to happen Right and then everybody rushes to sigmarone and all that and then and then like we started in in We started in olbu and we end in olbu because then they use that to slip in To slanash's president. Okay I gotta say tom that's compelling It's a compelling arc I like I don't know if that's what it'll be but man. You've sold me that that's what it should be Like that's pretty strong pretty strong Um Okay Yeah Good good. I like that setup. I think that's good. I think ultimately Then where we'll be when we're looking into fourth edition is my biggest problem is going to be still the same thing We'll be back on the cycle again Right, like we'll actually have all the armies in a relatively good place with lots of support and lots of interesting things and then it's going to be time to start the The battle tome treadmill all over again, right? That's the worst part about this and whatever changes come about from the new edition Yeah, sure Sure, and we did a whole show on that some time ago of like what rule of change do you want to see there? All right, good. I don't know man. I think that's that's pretty solid. I feel like that's uh, that's a nice setup All right, very good. Did we miss anything any final thoughts tom? You want to share with everybody On any other any other sideways predictions anything else we didn't mention that you think is worth mentioning What about you chat? What didn't we mention that you think is going to be happening in The culmination of dawn bringers in book three or four what other Beats or things or setups or items haven't we talked about either say it You know post it now or drop it down in the comments if you're if you're watching this later What do you think tom any any other small stuff? um I I mean the other thing I would say is that if we're if we're already been now talking about fourth edition I would love to see them drop a narrative like season of war style book mid season Okay, like we got season of war thondia, but but You know We get something like that. Oh ghouish, right? um, and that sets the stage for the conflicts and the The kind of the the movement that's happening, right? Yeah And I think that's where malaria would jump in and then you fast forward then another year down the road And then that's when you start your off your march towards Okay, quality Yeah, I do hope they do at some point. I hope they figure out What the heck is this supposed to like how is the narrative arc of the the addition supposed to play out? It's so loosey goosey right now and what's going on like we've got Whatever's happening over with war cry at any given point in time right now. We're raiding a crashed spaceship or whatever right anger, right? We've got whatever's happening with underworlds Right and that's its own little part of the world in old group being explored, right? Yeah And then Then we have theoretically whatever the main thrust of the story is on the plane we're on Right that we're focusing in on in the realm we're focusing in on and I just wish they would figure out kind of the narrative book arc a little cleaner Or whatever To like actually ground us in the overarching story of what's happening Uh Mason said will we get another incarnate? What do you think tom does will fourth edition bring us another incarnate? Yeah, an incarnate of shadow Okay, okay I don't want there to be another one, but I think we probably will get another one And I guess fine we could get 10 more incarnates. They just need to be narrative only like Make them a narrative thing and that's fine And don't put them in a $200 box of terrain like just They're we could just learn from our mistakes. Don't make them overpowered nonsense that shows up in like everybody's list and make them narrative only things Check out And or if you're gonna if you feel like you're gonna use them Please put their rules in some way. Don't make a whole new set of rules up for them Just like make them work with the normal rules of the game in fourth edition Not all only a set of whack-a-but whack-a-do rules that are completely separate Okay, cool. Good. All right. Awesome. Well, hey for all of you out there. Thank you so much for watching I hope you enjoyed our little tinfoil hat edition. What didn't we cover drop it down in the comments below hit like Subscribe if you haven't already. We'd love to have you back next week Uh next week will be the dawn bringers book two review will be diving deep into shrug and Uh, all the iron jaws goodness and some sons of badmout stuff and ko things will be taking a deep dive into all of that It's gonna be a great time. I cannot wait Uh, but uh, yeah, if you want to support the channel lots of ways you can do so You can pick up a game from myself and uncle adam Those are all linked down below all of our games that we've made if you wanted some fun skirmish action Uh, and you can join the patreon. That's down there And that's focused on hobby and review and taking your next step on your hobby journey and You can just share this video out cost nothing, but I always appreciate it share the video that kind of stuff But thank you so much everybody for watching really very much appreciate it. And as always We'll see you next wednesday