Welcome. Welcome everyone to our session today. Today we're talking about how together CEDA and in DCOTEC utilize type or ledger Aries, URSA, and Indy to create a secure travel credential that can be accepted by airlines, hotels, and hospitality partners without having to share any private health information. In fact last month CEDA announced the successful trial of the Aruba Health Privacy app. It uses blockchain and the app creates a secure travel credential that's exposed with that sharing that information. And so we're going to be talking about that further today. Hello and welcome. Welcome to paving the way to a safer travel experience. I'm Heather Dahl. I'm CEO of IndyCO and I'll be moderating today's discussion. First let's have our two panelists introduce themselves. Adrienne why don't you begin? Sure thank you Heather so welcome everybody. Okay well I'll take over why don't we we take a minute to do some introductions while Heather's rejoining and I'll start since I'm already talking. I work for IndyCO as VP of Operations but I wear a lot of hats and one of the the heaviest hats I wear is that of education so I spend quite a bit of time talking to our clients and customers as they come to us to solve for their various identity and data problems about verifiable credentials and decentralized identity and trying to distill down the the essence of the technology and apply it to a particular use case and so that we can realize some value very quickly. So that was the role that I filled largely in this project was talking with the folks in Aruba more than anything because Adrienne and Sita are intimately familiar with the technology but translating some of the very complicated terms and making them uncomplicated so that they can see see value in a very distanded project. So Adrienne why don't we let you in? Sure thank you Scott so yeah as you mentioned so well I'm Adrienne Sanglier so I'm a program manager at the Sita Lab so the Sita Lab is a research group part of Sita company so Sita is the main IT provider of the air travel industry so we are between airport airlines and governments you might do not well you do not know us because we are mainly behind the scenes when you when you travel but let's say it is the infrastructure behind let's say the inconsistency that makes sure that necessary data is exchanged well between all stakeholders can be from passenger processing to baggage management or air traffic messages or or even electronic travel authorizations so I work mainly in digital identity it is a key area of focus for industry because we are looking at a real seamless passenger journey when you think about the number of times you have to show your passport your data your visa and now your health stages when you travel there is let's say a room for improvement in our industry so it is our focus of our work at Sita because we are also 100% committed to the industry as per our structure and this is why we undertook that the project with with in this year so I see you you could join us back I think I'm here can you hear me as well yes we have a winner we have winner so we've done some introductions Heather for Adrian and myself and yeah so we'll turn it back over to you absolutely thank you for sticking and hanging on there with us as we go through these glitches that we get with the virtual world but soon we'll see each other in person hopefully this fall next to hyper ledger event in Seattle so I'm thinking Adrian a good place to begin is actually with you because this all this all started with the call from Sita very early in the pandemic Adrian why don't you talk to us about the very beginning and explain the problem that you were thinking to solve sure so it was a song some months back and when we think well it was the very well not the beginning but the middle of the pandemic really and and we were thinking at how can the travel industry recover because it was really a tough moment for for the whole activity and well a lot of controls further to border checks where we're in place so many driven by health ministries and quickly realize we need exchange of data of course because we're talking about health data and we seen it from the pandemic we clearly seen the limit of using paper documents paper certificates that can be easily forged or faked and also issues related to efficiencies when when the activity picks up again and the airport won't handle such let's say another security line so how can we do digital in exchanging this data which is extremely sensitive because we're talking about health and how can border can reopen so that was really the main problem and outlining it a little bit deeper it means that we need secure and verifiable data for governance to reopen their borders and but also if you see it from a passenger passenger standpoint for adoption of health data exchange it needs to be privacy preserving of course because you don't want to to give away your your your health data without knowing you know how to control it let's say and without consent and finally part of the problem was also scalability because we are a global industry we need to move all at the same pace so that's really why we looked into this one for decentralized identity models and especially verifiable credentials well I also want to welcome those who are joining us in progress some about how you can pave the way to safer travel we're joined by Scott Harris of the DCO and Adrian over at CEDA for those joining this is an open conversation so you just jump in and put your questions in the chat screen on the right side of your window so I'm going to go to you next and can you talk to us about how DCO approach solving the problem Adrian presented and also mapping it with the overall goal industry using the decentralized identity model and then really how did you model workflow that would solve a problem okay that's that's a lot of questions I'll try to cover everything but but as I mentioned in my intro we really wanted to focus on simplicity in this case because to try to solve for everything at once was not only daunting but time-consuming and there's a great need to present something that's usable quickly now it needs to be that the user have usability but also of course have clients and have you know exist in the regulatory environment and make it work for everybody so so so we went back to the very basic four principles of the identity and that is putting the data in the hands of the traveler and as Adrian said that involves giving them control protecting their privacy so they're not having to share health data and and we really look at the very simple trust triangle that you use all the time to go through your education and I know you have a slide for that coming up I don't know I think you can do that while I'm talking that can you see it there not quite yet there we go right so so we the idea here is that the traveler who's central to this operation and this architecture takes control of health data from a source that has issued them a better public vehicle and they're the direct relationship then between those two problems the traveler then establishes a relationship with a verifier or a receiver of the data and there's a direct relationship there so in doing that and using this model this model that's been around for as long as these centralized identity is there's no need to stand up things like third party process rules engines press registries all of that it's really about trust between three parties three states and if we get established that trust with a data source that the verifier will trust the data source used by the credential and and establish that first we could we could build to that so that's how we sort of map that relationship it's a very very quick and easy way to look at it to solve them for a problem and of course as you bring more stakeholders more participants into it you need to consider their interests and their compliance issues and their very regular requirements and things like that but to make this work in ruba it was a matter of talking to the participants that were participating to forgive that grace but try to think it up straight so so this approach mapped well with the government of ruba's idea of what they need because it allowed them to identify data that they could trust protect the privacy of the traveler but still give them the autonomy and control of deciding what what data to take from that and then ultimately what action to to take based upon that so as opposed to some other models where where data goes to a processor or rules engine or a through-it-press framework and the decision may be made on the behalf of a verifier here we give the verifier a complete goal to take what they need don't take what they don't need protect privacy and then get back on those well i think you know it's important to take a moment to focus on one of the key challenges or in fact i think for the decentralized identity benefits um adrian i know that one of the things cita tries to do is deploy technology without totally disrupting existing enterprise or government processes um talk to us a bit about why this decentralized identity model that thought just set out here is actually helpful in this regard especially when it comes to the architecture and we can show a slide um here that might be able to help you explain a bit about it adrian sure so the the the big let's say a characteristic of of the industry it is that well they're like complex ecosystems we do have the aligned the airport and the governments on a border crossing a news case so and i will operate the route airports will provide a typically a shared environment or common news environment especially on international flights and government will well have their own set of rules so we need to properly design an architecture that will fit the purpose of really border crossing and we need to envision all benefits of stakeholders and as i said we need the exchange of data and it's a lot of data to be to be exchanged when you cross the border behind the scene so where the technology or the model really helps it is about removing the need establish point-to-point connections and as i said complex ecosystems make also the that those ecosystems are evolving across time so that that's a major benefit we see from that that model it is it is must it simplifies how to set up those exchanges of data but also how to maintain them across time there is also another great benefit from it is how can you shift liability from from an airline to to the government because right now in the model so airline is is bringing people from A to B but they should also enforce rules set out by governments and they become also a broker of information that can be very sensitive and and also very difficult to handle so if we can enable that conversation between the individual the traveler and the government that's also a major improvement to the industry so we are not changing the way the data is exchanged of course and the same data will flow to the to the government to the airline to the passenger but simplify how ecosystems are created and managed so it is about providing well different kind of pipes for that exchange of information to to to proceed so that's the main help so i'm gonna stick with you adrian you know without in mind can you talk a bit how a sovereign government or a nation or even a commercial enterprise for this case goes about selecting the type of solution they're looking for for the exchange of data without a direct integration of course consent is very important and in this case how did you proceed hyper lecture is a key part to being important in making your decision right so the key that's a principle is when managing ecosystems it should be easy to join the party in a sense you should be able to to just be able to well submit your data receivables and and make sure you know again as everyone should see the benefits that should be done on a scalable way we should also understand how the ecosystem is controlled and the entangling technology too and it should be absolutely open so all those characteristics we found them in in hyper ledger your son a reason and and also the one goal very important the consequence a lot of the above is of course interoperability can be open when it when the technology provides interoperability and as it is open source it is developed by the community we know there will be way to support and talk to any other digital identity mechanism models or the networks or technology that exist today or will exist in the future so that's also a bit in the future when we let's say use hyper ledger as our technology stack and as I said there's no one solution for the global industry so it's very important to be a forward looking and Scott what are your thoughts here as you were applying what we call business logic to the actual technology ecosystem I Heather I think the the important thing here is that as Adrienne has described it's a very complex system of exchanging data and the goal is not to not to supplant that those systems or change them because they're they're well established and and and contain you know long standing agreements between parties about what they need and what they take and how things happen so our goal here is to use the hyper ledger based tools and and verifiable credentials as a way of building additional trust into systems such that data can be shared at a very early stage in the passenger journey and and shared in a trusted manner all the way to the end and thus smooth the system so while we started out here with you know health data and over credentials and things it's always been with an eye on the big picture that there's more there's more to it than than just that it's all going to be immediate problem that was at hand but but there's and for those of you who are joining us in progress welcome we're talking about paving the way to safer travel within DCO and CEDA you can join our conversation just post a message in the chat on the right hand side of your screen and we'll incorporate you into our conversation so Adrienne what I found most interesting about the trial in aruba and actually I found was probably the most exciting part of this that you had a traveler who could share their medical information digitally without a direct database integration between the history laboratory at the hospital and the government of aruba and they were able to do that full consent and transparency to share that information can you talk to us from where you are sitting today about how interoperability and health data work together knowing that you have gone through quite a journey on this last year and thinking about it sure so um the first challenge we had I'm thinking front of our eyes was how do we represent health data what it is I mean health data can be really represented in multiple ways and there are a lot of different data schemes out there and we still need to exchange them and not only the data but in that case also the metadata that would describe how this credential that we look like so this is all another big advantage of decentralized identity you can exchange also metadata so we need to pick a technology to support our use case that enables that that level of standardization to the data so again I think Ari is an indie we're providing this in a very efficient way and in a sense a proprietary standard wouldn't work because as I said it is about organizing ecosystems so that's also the reason why we are looking at open source community and and this is you know in the story and we've seen that how efficient it was it was well in this show helped us to to build the necessary pieces and also raise the voice of Sita into the community and and also the other one we could also understand what it takes to to use well hyper ledger project and technology so it was I think it started with taking a look at what was possible what was not and and building a simple demonstrator out of the code in the in the repose and and created a lot of visuals and socializing with stakeholders so looking back there's a lot of value of course in education also because that's that's a change that's a change of the way the information would be would be shared and as we said it those ecosystems are very fragmented because there are multiple health requirements multiple government and requirements and the online process and the the airport process I think providing that level of standardization both in data processing technology was was absolutely key to the success of our project so it makes me think you know when you started 2020 I don't think you anticipated working as closely with the healthcare industry as you actually did what was the one or two lessons that you learned or that were maybe even surprising to you working so closely with healthcare partner so I would say it was not about the technology how do we have them to integrate I don't know an Aries wallet or Aries development but it was still about providing standard technology that we that they are used to of course in the end of the day it's data that will likely stand on a central database anyway for the matter of processes so it became just a standard IT project so working with healthcare has been it became it became an IT project it was a blue magic I would say in integrating credential it was about defining the specification again or what it is a PCR test to resolve what is a vaccine or even the declaration of significant effects and people were very enthusiastic about let's contribute to the industry recovery also so travel is one but also the economy is in a homeland and and see how can we leverage that privacy perspective of the decentralized identity model for the for the advantages of the interest of privacy of course which is very important for healthcare industry Heather can I add something to that as well I think we've talked we mentioned the the I word interoperability here and I think that's an important piece of this because once we established with the government government of Aruba the you know the value props of privacy protection data control and autonomy and all of the things we we talked about the next question was well you know how do we build from here right and so interoperability is key how do they integrate the next health system in the next health system in the next health system in order to continue to take credentials from a wider set of participants and how do they take these into their you know internal system and create derivative credentials from the data they receive so so making things interoperable is incredibly important and it's a bit even more important to frame that interoperability word in context because we have a very rapidly changing technology sector here and many claims can be made about interoperability you know if you're on a proprietary platform for example you could easily say that that's interoperable but the context is as long as everybody comes and plays for our proprietary system of course it's interoperable so so that's where the hyperlitter tools come into play and the open source ecosystem comes into play where we want to make sure that the stakeholders have the ability as they come to participate as Adrienne said we want to make it easy for people to come to the party that their things can work together or if they want something slightly different it can be built to work together so our philosophy here is not necessarily that to use an analogy of putting together puzzle pieces because there's only one way that a puzzle can fit together but rather than let's let's build the bricks that they can make something let's build Lego blocks that can go together to build the things that everybody needs and make them very universally useful in order to achieve interoperability so that's been a big piece of the the education here to say they seem easy to just write a check and pay and have somebody else do it and there will be people who take that path but in terms of scalability and long-term viability this building block approach seems much more sustainable well and I think when you talk about derivative credentials in the building block approach we're really talking about this ecosystem and sometimes the concept of ecosystem maybe gets lost in the words about exactly what this ecosystem was and that it scaled quite a few parties and the CEDA and a DCO had to meet the interest and also benefit every single stakeholder in this ecosystem no matter what world they play and so what what I'm going to show is actually a video um that we put together with CEDA and the original purpose of this video was to actually teach verifiers on the island for the trial but what we found was the education across the entire ecosystem this animated video turned out to be one of the most valuable education tools that we had and so if everything works the way we wanted to I hope that I can share this so I will play it and see what happens Adrienne from I'm sure this video brings back plenty of memories from where you say what do you think after watching that again here it's been a while since you've watched it so yeah yes yes I mean it's of course lots of emotions yeah because a long way and it was really a windy road to get there not a straight line at all and yeah I mean it reminds me again you know that the time and energy took to really I think on both people and make them understand you know that they are in the center of everything each party is at the center of the fact that well it can work with everyone so one that's I think the key takeaway Scott you haven't seen this for a while what tip what do you think same question now I think the interesting point there in this whole thing is that I'll go back to the original trust triangle is that once data in a way that that it can be trusted as opposed to some of the problems such as passing paper around or scanning and faxing PDFs or emailing jpegs of things so once data enters the system in a way that it can be trusted we see that it has all kinds of uses and and as you mentioned derivative credentials such as this happy traveler card can be issued and then subsequently trusted so it's an ecosystem that builds on itself because you know the initial intake point the KYC that the work that was done to to put trust in the system can be utilized down line to provide value to all sorts of entities that might not have even understood that they could get value from that so that's that's my feeling on it it really really shows the power of all of this and for those of you just joined us we're talking about paving the way to save for travel with the CETA and in DCO you too can be a part of the conversation just join us in the chat on the right hand side of the screen so Scott we saw the video and if participants want to go to CETA's LinkedIn page there's actually a video that shows people participating in the trial using Yoruba Health Privacy app going to a casino so they can see it work in real time and then you have you know the press release but I think sometimes all the you know unveiling and the public relations it obscures the hard work and exactly what this looked like when it started and so I feel it's really important for our audience and for people interested as you said Peter and this was a long and windy road this was not easy and so I want to bring up a blast from the past here and share it I think Scott will especially love this picture um this um is yes I remember that this is actually you saw the you saw the animated video this is what started it all was this sketch um and yeah it's not pretty packaged animated produced but here it is this was the slide that started it all on the architecture does it does it look familiar Scott well well vaguely but you know this was a learning process for all of us I mean not not just around health data but around how to as I mentioned in a mantra that that you weren't here for Heather that the big a big effort is put into educating people who aren't you know hyper ledger aficionados or Aries toolbox users and things so to take something like this which I still have to squint at a little bit make it make it into something understandable and usable and presentable and then turn it into a demonstration product is a long and winding road so um we've learned a lot and and um we're still learning right so I think everybody was learning a year ago about how do we how do we even solve for medical data in a pandemic and and I would argue that it's still not been solved countries like aruba are probably far ahead of other countries you know I know what I know what's going on in the U.S. and there's no you know there's very little way of digital initiatives to handle this sort of stuff so it's still a learning process for everyone um but but yeah what I learned was um was taking this this little diagram and breaking it down even further is is what worked so that that's grassroots building block approach because when you look at something like this you can easily let your mind wander to okay I see one provider there what happens when I have 50 providers what happens when I have a thousand providers what happens when I have a hundred thousand individuals and and and all these verifiers and how do we get them all to agree on governance how do we get them to agree on what's trusted and what's not how do we get it can in pretty easily you know devolve into a mud pit where nobody can get out right you just get trapped and I think we've seen some of that happening um with some of the initiatives that that it can get overly complicated so what what I learned um you know what we still try to do it in DCO is take that grassroots approach and go let's just let's use these great hyper ledger based tools that we have and these open source agents that are based on those tools to make some bricks and use those bricks to build a building and then we can open the door and let people come in and if they want to build an addition on our building that looks architecturally different but it but the two still connect and we can go back and forth then then we've had a big win right so so that's what we've learned is to just break it down and um and start small I know I can talk quite a bit more about the journey because it has been a fun and interesting road but I'll turn it back over to you Heather. Yeah Adrienne I know when I showed this blast from the past that you uh checkaled a little bit because this probably brought back even earlier memories um but maybe you can use this uh very I would say maybe even first iteration of a slide to start talking about the challenges um that you overcame along the way to deploying a successful trial. Sure absolutely and maybe I'll start with a question from Guillermo I see on the Q&A because that's that's really one of the the challenge we have also is how do you incentivize people to use the app and and that's a that's a very good point you know how Sita has been encouraging you know participants to use mobile apps because there are mobile apps everywhere and most of them can be standalone so um first well for for airlines clearly um it is the ability to just to do a simple check and it's uh of course uh much faster than reviewing paper documents and and going through the details of for this destination do I have to do I have to check you know this questionnaire or the PCR test results which kind of requirements um and really eliminate all of this but just a pass that has been issued by the government so now of course it's going to be a standalone app um it's not it's not perfect yet the the idea is also to provide now SDKs or even even better um so SDKs so that it can be integrated into an existing app used by the airline agent at boarding or check-in but what we are looking at now is how do we incorporate those verification requirements into an automated boarding gate or a checking kiosk and and this is this is being done so um we also need to move away from standalone mobile apps and and provide automation so that's for airline now government well um they won't be using a mobile app as such but uh a dedicated interface because I think government also need to uh to have a view on how many credentials do we can I did I issue um to to allow my my my residents or visitors to allow them in in the country um so there are also um a set of reporting uh requirements that we need to fulfill so uh the case of web application is clearly more almost suited for that and and users um so um as I said for for for this project it was standalone but the the incentive is is quite easy um is is about well cut the lines on arrival um and um we are also looking at technologies that um that enable us to integrate to any existing app and only provide the wallet on a very transparent way so I think that's also a way to encourage adoption when it comes to really uh mobile applications and it's a real problem of today um so let's back to those challenges that we we we we have well clearly and we we said it is is how do we uh provide inclusion you know how do we uh include everyone into the conversation about um about setting up the ecosystem uh because every voice has the core importance uh it's like a UN session uh you need to be uh uh to include everyone and the outcome will will happen only when everyone will agree uh based off of consensus so um for example I mean um as a as a lab uh testing a clinical lab if you can issue a credential or government health pass but if no one is able to verify it it's quite pretty useless so um but also if you can you can issue a PCR test result but if no government is going to back it or vet it it's going to be worthless so um so I'm insisting a bit it is about um putting everyone at the table and and investing in this time uh front of course before the iQ project really happens uh to onboard everyone and and how did we do that well uh open source open standard uh like uh hyper ledger is of course was was key uh really on the on the dialogue um and but also the collaboration a very strong collaboration with healthcare state sector um so how to best describe a PCR test a vaccine um is is what we need to make sure you know everyone can can can seem interest uh in providing you know uh uh effort to it and having that standard that everyone needs uh to streamline the process so we took really the most open data schema and uh and again you know collaborating with um with healthcare sector pharmaceutical of different sizes different culture different maturity levels was was I think um a very good lesson and was was a was a clear advantage to us uh in that in that process so Scott every mile every marathon comes down to the last mile what was one of the challenges that you had to overcome in the last mile of this project heading into the trial just you want me to pick just one um there were there were many heading into the trial I think the um the challenges still centered around um education for me on my side of the the equation uh meaning as more and more people began to participate to actually make this happen and I mean uh people outside of outside of indicio and outside of sida you know for our actual passengers for our actual you know government officials and things going and demonstrating this this capability for them and then then being able being able to explain it again in a way that that allowed them to see the value of it so because it doesn't present itself as a traditional um solution right it doesn't it's as I said it's not a you know buy this software and install it and then everything runs it's you you know you does require participation from all of the different stakeholders in order to make it work for them and sometimes that's a that's a harder thing to communicate the value of and I then I think the other piece of it was um trying to understand the next steps right and communicate that to everyone and I was I apologize for stepping on Adrienne earlier I wanted to to mention on the topic of um wallets and apps and incentivizing and things like that I think the standalone app is one way to go and and it certainly in this case to to start simple and build simple and demonstrate value but term long-term use it needs to be more than that right it needs to be more than just a single point solver it needs to be integrated and live somewhere else so Aruba has a really nice app they built for their for their residents and travelers and our goal was to you know mimic that and allow them to see that this could just be part of what they already have in existence so for any other enterprise type of implementation the idea is not necessarily this you know Aries based credential wallet exists on its own and we have to tell somebody to go use this one or that one the idea is that it should be interoperable with others and and if it exists inside their their existing app environment it can work that way so so to me that was the big part of the challenge because if we were asked or I was asked repeatedly you know do we have to use do our people have to use this app all the time right and and that's a long-winded answer to that question but but the answer is no and probably in my mind they shouldn't they should be using you know whatever app you're already using and this capability should be wrapped up into it well I think education is a really important part both CEDA and a DCO are committed to education around decentralized identity and that's why we're having this conversation today at Hyperledger and we're being open about our experiences because we want to help educate and let others who may be considering similar projects for maybe different use cases understand some of the challenges in the road that we went down to help inform what they're developing. I want to take a couple minutes to talk around governance Adrienne and the role governance played with this and also the introduction in this case we introduced machine readable governance as well to help facilitate the exchange and acceptance of those credentials Adrienne what was the approach that CEDA took around governance for the trial in Aruba? Right so you're right I mean the governance is extremely important when you look at organizing those ecosystems and our approach was to to focus on separating what we call the trust and the data and we we've seen that it is consistent with recent discussions also on other health passes and what we hear also on more global initiatives so what I mean is the health pass is derived from health data the F data is so you can vaccinate your maybe your secondary effect your questions or your PCR test results and from this an authority party will will issue the pass and the pass would not contain any private data and this is what you would present to different verifiers such as a restaurant or shop or hotel or or even a touristic venue so that's that's that's really important because when we presented our approach and the technology the model of decentralized identity model that question was raised immediately by Aruba is how do I control that pass and because well as Aruba I need to be as a government I need to be in control of the situation we see in the COVID situation is quite fluid you requirements may change anytime you might want to revoke also a status but at the same time a government don't want to see doesn't want to see to be seen as a poly state there is a change also in our societies about where do I to who I give my my my private data what are they doing with so to overcome this we position the government as a certifier of the data so it means that the passenger would supply private information about what health data to this recognized body who will then give something back and that's the health pass we are talking about so that's a change of paradigm it's I'm not moving with my PCL test result in hand and and disclosing my birth date or my any sensitive information to anyone I'm disclosing just the fact that I am approved by that government and I think that that was what really helped convincing the the government who we absolutely needed also the government in the in the equation because they are the certifier they are the the approver and and and this is also with the government that ecosystem is well balanced so that change of paradigm paradigm is is the fact that I supply information to an authority and I got something back and that's a big change from typical electronic travel authorization when you when you submit you know in advance of your of your flight data and you don't really know what's what's going on you you will know who will happen when you actually cross the border after your flight and something is wrong and you realize well something was wrong and you have that stressful moment until you see an agent that okay might be some something with my application so in this model the government replies back with a tangible credential it shows that you are approved and the liability is also on the government so that's that's a reward in a sense to the to the passenger and well that makes the architecture a bit more difficult to set up of course that was interesting to to go through the journey but it is a way to take into consideration everyone's needs and and and that was the reward for us in the end I think Scott you felt how per you felt in your role exactly how the governance made the architecture more interesting maybe you can talk to us a bit about how governance impacted applying business logic to the ecosystem but also the other way around how the ecosystem and what we could do with machine readable governance inform the government yeah I think that that's a great point and and to to start with what Adrian was talking about the idea of a the the aruba government certifying that the health results and then using a derived credential down line to to still allow the movement of people and and and that could be done because there's trust in the certifying authority and while that sounds a bit centralized it's it's really not because it's just about governance it's about managing those relationships between entities so if I'm a restaurant in aruba and I'm going to accept the government stamp if you will the government credential saying that they've checked this person's results then that's a relationship that already exists right between the government and the and the restaurant so there we're simply allowing them to exercise you know an exchange of information that the between parties who already have an existing relationship but to to go to your question Heather so it's definitely not a one-way street that governance where you you establish it lay it down and it's done as we started building the ecosystem we started to realize there were some requirements that you know that we weren't quite aware of and that's been part of the learning process our audience at ruba is very and but not deeply entrenched in decentralized identity right as I said they they stood up some really nice digital tools to help manage their problem down there and our goal is to help them make those slightly better quite a bit more trustworthy and and more efficient and scalable than it already was so so for me it came down to the the idea of putting data in the hands of the credential holder which allowed them to let me backtrack putting data in the hands of the credential holder helped them with their compliance meaning that they had requirements from you know internal regulations external influences from from Holland that said here's the kind of data you need to keep here's the kind of data you you may want to keep here are the things you need to check here are the GDPR requirements that need to be met and so we were able to take take all of those different things as they changed and turn them into machine readable governance right so that they had that autonomous control of what was going on and for me that was eye-opening it was the idea that we kind of went into it thinking here are the rules and you can play by them and they said well we have all these other rules that need to apply and and what was eye-opening to me was the idea was was really the ease with which we can take machine readable governance and change it at a minute's notice and so that not only helped them with with some of their data control issues but it also helped them adapt to the actual pandemic problem of saying today we want a PCR test that's done within 72 hours and perhaps next week the science changes and we need to change our our rules on what's acceptable and what's not and they can execute that very quickly and easily on their own without having to rely on you know on other other authorities or other call it non-interested parties having to execute that. So in our last three minutes here one of the surprising things that happened while we're actually conducting the trial in Ereba was Cardia with Linux Foundation Public Health and so maybe Adrienne in our last couple minutes you can talk a bit about the role of Cardia and how that how that happens. Sure yeah so that was really interesting because we we suddenly realized well we do have what we call the reference implementation because it uses the open source the code and it solves the problem so let's encourage everyone to continue to build on top of this of this implementation on this standard so the the idea is now that we need well the snowball effect to ensure you know data is exchanged for the travel industry it is absolutely absolutely detailed that we see more and more use cases and data exchange on health to so that borders can reopen and we've seen the immense value of decentralized entity in this. We hope we contribute to the trust framework also determination and we encourage everyone to join Cardia and improve it of course the code is open to be improved and everyone can raise their own suggestions I mean we do have a weekly call and we hope that it will well boost what we need the the organization of those ecosystems and build a future-proof governance also so well that's what Cardia is about is is providing an example of what we what can be done to solve that real industry problem and the code is open source too so well again it's not a new thing for the travel industry it's complex complex ecosystems but now I think technology has a real well a bigger role to play. For those who are interested in joining and participating in the working group for Cardia it meets noon eastern time on thursdays you can go to cardia.app so that's c-a-r-d-e-a dot a-p-p to learn more information and as Adrienne said we welcome you all in DCO, CEDA and several other organizations are leading the effort on Cardia. We're out of time here I want to thank you Adrienne and you Scott for having this conversation I want to thank everyone who has joined us if you'd like to connect with any of us we're all on LinkedIn and with that I want to say thank you and enjoy the rest of your event thank you thank you


But apparently all you had to do is get out your fancy government issue impressioning set and show that a really crappy Chinese lock from eBay can be impressioned in like five seconds, which is cool. I'm jealous I don't have one, but first of all these locks can be picked. At least I picked this one just before I shot this video, so there it is, open.  Anyway, what I would suggest is that you, oh that little, that's just the table, what I would suggest is that you take one of these apart, do not try to gut it with a plug follower, just cut it open. Trust me, it'll get all messed up if you don't. You will love what's inside. These are these are a real treat in terms of the high quality of construction of these things. So anyway, you'll love it, but you should also practice your picking because you don't need one of those fancy machines to, or gadgets to open this lock. So go back to school Bill, it'll be okay, we'll get you picking. This is Alex, have fun and keep it legal.


Welcome back to Vegas, baby. Lisa Martin here with theCUBE. We are live at Caesars Forum, covering Snowflake Summit 22. This is day two of our wall-to-wall coverage on theCUBE you won't want to miss. We've got an exciting customer story to talk to you about next, with Novartis and Snowflake. Please welcome two guests to theCUBE, Loic Girant, Global Head Delivery, Global Head Digital Delivery Novartis. I hope I got the name right. Yes, hi, thank you. I did my best. Absolutely. Jesse Cugliata also joins us, Global Industry Lead Healthcare and Life Sciences at Snowflake. Welcome with theCUBE, gentlemen. Thank you for having us. Good morning. So it was great to hear Novartis is a household word now, especially with what's gone on in the last two years. Had a chance to see the keynote yesterday, heard Novartis mention in terms of a massive outcome that Snowflake is delivering, that we're going to get to. But Loic, talk to us about Novartis, Global 500 organization. You rank among the world's top companies investing in R&D, the massive portfolio, and you're reaching nearly 800 million patients worldwide. That's huge, but there's been a lot of change in the healthcare and life sciences industry, especially recently. Talk to us about the industry landscape. What are you seeing? So, I mean, as you describe, R&D Novartis is one of the top life science company in the world. We are number three. We operate in 150 countries and we have almost 120,000 employees. We actually, our purpose is actually to re-imagine medicine through the use of data science and technology to extend people's life. And we really mean it. I think, as you mentioned, we treat 800 million patients per year with our drugs and we expect to treat more than a billion patients in near time soon. So, over the last few years, especially during COVID, our transformation or digital transformation help us to accelerate the drug discovery and then the commercialization of our drug to markets. As it was mentioned in the keynote yesterday, we have actually been able to reduce our time to markets. It used to take us up to 12 years and cost around $1.2 billion to discover and commercialize drug. And now we've actually used technology like Snowflake. We have been able to reduce by two to three years, which ultimately is a benefit for our patients. Absolutely. Well, we're talking about life and death situations. Talk about, you mentioned Novartis wants to re-imagine medicine. What does that look like? Where is data in that? And how is Snowflake an enabler of re-imagining medicine? Data is a core of our assets. It's a core of enterprise process. So, if you look at our enterprise, we are using data from the research through drug development in a manufacturing process and how do we market and sell our product through HCPs and distributors to reach our patients. If you build that for our digital transformation, we have created this integrated data ecosystem where Snowflake is a core component. And through that ecosystem, we are able to identify compounds and cohorts, perform clinical trials and engage HCPs and HCOs so they can prescribe our drugs to serve our patient needs. Justice, let's bring you into the conversation. Snowflake recently launched its healthcare and life sciences data cloud. I believe that was back in March. It was. Just a couple of months ago. Talk to us about the vertical focus. Talk to us about what this healthcare and life sciences data cloud is aiming to help customers like Novartis achieve. Well, as you mentioned there, Snowflake has made it a real pivot to kind of focus on the various different industries that we serve in a new way. I think historically we've been engaged in really all of the industries across the major sectors where we participate today. But historically we've been often engaging with the Office of IT. And there was a recognition as a company that we really need to be able to better speak the language of our customers in their respective industries. So the entire organization has really made a pivot to start to build that capability internally. That's part of the team that I support here at Snowflake. And with respect to healthcare and life sciences, that means being able to solve some of the challenges that Loick was just speaking about. In particular, we're seeing the industry evolve in a number of ways. You bring up clinical research in the time that it takes to actually bring a drug to market. This is a big one that's really changed a lot over the last couple of years. Some of the reasons are obvious and other ones are somewhat opportunistic. When we looked at what it takes to get a drug to market, there's several stages of clinical research that have to be participated in, and this can often take years. What we saw in the last couple of years is that all of a sudden patients didn't want to physically participate in those anymore because there was fear of potential infection and being in a healthcare facility. So the entire industry realized that it needed to change in terms of the way that it would engage with patients in that context. And we're now seeing this concept of decentralized clinical research. And with that becomes the need to potentially involve many different types of organizations beyond the traditional pharma, their research partners, but we're starting to see organizations like retail pharmacies, like big box retailers who have either healthcare delivery or pharmaceutical arms actually get involved in the process. And of course, one of the core things that happens here is that everyone needs a better way to collaborate and share data amongst one another. So bringing this back to your original question, this concept of being able to do exactly that is core to the healthcare and the life sciences data cloud to be able to collaborate and share data amongst those different types of organizations. Collaboration and data sharing, it seems to me to be a differentiator for Snowflake in terms of being able to deliver secure, governed, powerful analytics and data sharing to customers, to partners, to the ecosystem. You mentioned an example of the ecosystem there and how impactful to patients lives that collaboration and data sharing can be. It's absolutely right. It's something that if you think about all of the major challenges that the industry has had historically, whether it is high costs, whether it is health inequities, whether it is physicians practicing defensive medicine or repeat testing, what's core to each one of these things is kind of the inability to adequately collaborate and share data amongst all of the different players. So the industry has been waiting for the capability or some sort of solution to be able to do this, I think for a long, long time. And this is probably one of the most exciting parts of the conversations that we have with our customers is when they realize that this is possible. And not only that it's possible within our platform, but that most of the organizations that they work with today are also Snowflake customers. So they realize that everyone's already here, it's just a matter of who else can we work with and how do we get started? Join the party. Exactly. Lilik, talk to us about Novartis's data journey. I know you guys have been, I believe, using Snowflake since 2017, pre-pandemic. But you had a largely on-premises infrastructure. Talk to us about the decision of Novartis to go to the cloud, do it securely, and why you chose to partner with Snowflake. So when we started our journey in 2018, I think the ambition that CEO was to transform all enterprise processes for the use of digital tech. And at the core of this digital tech is a data foundation. So we started with a large program called Formula One, which aims to integrate all our internal and external data assets into an integrated platform. And through that, I think we've built this multi-cloud and best-of-brit platform where Snowflake is a core component. And we've been able to integrate almost 1,000 data assets, external and external through the platform, to be able to accelerate the use of data to create insight for our users. In that transformation, we've realized that Snowflake was could be a core component because of the scalability and the performance of with large data sets. And moreover, when Snowflake started to actually open collaboration for their marketplace, we've been able to integrate new data set that are publicly available at the place that we could not do on our own. So that is a core component of what we are trying to do. Yeah, and I think that's a great example of really what we're talking about here is that, he's mentioning that they're going out to our marketplace to be able to integrate data more easily with some of the vendors there. And that is kind of this concept of the healthcare and life sciences data cloud realized where all of a sudden acquiring and bringing data in and making it ready for analysis becomes much faster, much easier. And we continually see more and more vendors coming to us saying, I get it now, I want in. Who else can I work with in this space? So I think that's a perfect example of how this starts to become real for folks. When it sounds like the marketplace has been an enabler look of the expansion of use cases, this is, you've grown this beyond drug development. I read that you're developing new products and services for healthcare providers to personalize treatments for patients, which we all are demanding patients, but we want that personalized care. But talk about the marketplace as a facilitator of those expanding use cases that Snowflake is empowering. Yes, I mean, we have currently almost 65 use cases in production and we are in advanced progress for another 200 use cases. And they go across all the business sector. So if you look at drug development, we are monitoring our clinical trials using Snowflake. If you look at our omni-channel marketing, we are looking at personalization of information with our HEPs and HCOs using Snowflake. If you look at our manufacturing process, we are looking at yet management, freight optimization, inventory, insight. So almost across all the industry sector that we have, I think we are using the platforms to be able to deliver faster information to our users. And that's what we all want, faster information. Nobody, I think in the pandemic, we learned that access to real-time data in every industry wasn't a nice to have. That was an absolute necessity. And that made the difference for companies that survived and thrived and those that didn't. That's something that we learned. But we also learned that the volume of data just continues to proliferate. Loic, you've been in the industry a couple of decades. What do you see, and you've got obviously this great foundation now with Snowflake. You've got 65 use cases you set in production. What's the future of the data culture in healthcare and life sciences from your perspective? So my perspective, it is time now we give the access to our business technologies to be able to be self-sufficient using digital product. We need to consumerize the digital technology so they can be self-sufficient. The amount of problem that we have to solve and we can now solve with new technology has never been there. And I think we are in the past where in the next few years that you will see an accelerated generation of insight and an accelerated process of medicine by empowering the business technologies to use a technology that likes Snowflake and offers progress. What are your thoughts, Loic, of some of the obviously a lot of news coming out yesterday from Snowflake. We mentioned Standing Room only in the keynote. This I believe is north of 10,000 attendees. People are ready to engage in person with Snowflake. But some of the news coming out, what is your perspective? You've been a partner of theirs for a while. What do you see from Snowflake in terms of the news, the volume of customers it's adding, all that good stuff? I must say I was blown away yesterday when Frank was talking about the ramp up of customers using Snowflake, I think. But also I think in Benua and Christian and they talk about the innovation, when you look at the native application or you look at hybrid tables, these are things that end the expansion of the marketplace by monetization application. That is something that is going to accelerate the expansion not only on the company but the integration and the monetization of customers. And to Jesse's point, I think that it is key that people collaborate using the platform. I think we want to collaborate with suppliers and providers and they want to collaborate with us but we want to have a neutral environment where we can do that. And Snowflake can be that environment. And do it securely, right? Security is absolutely- Of course, that's really table stakes for this industry. And I think the point that you just made, Loic, is very important is that the biggest question that we're often asked by our customers is who else is a customer within this industry that I can collaborate with? I think as Loic will attest to, one of the challenges within life sciences in particular is that it is a highly regulated industry. It is a highly competitive industry. And folks are very sensitive about referenceability, so about things like logo usage. So to give some ideas here, people often have no idea that we're working with 28 of the top 50 global pharma today, working with seven of the top 12 global medical device companies today. The largest CRO is the largest distributors. So when I say that the party is here, they really are. And that's why we're so excited to have events like these. Because people can physically introduce themselves to one another and meet and actually start to engage in some of these more collaborative discussions that they've been waiting for. Justy, what's been some of the feedback that you've heard the last couple of days on the healthcare and life sciences data cloud? You've obviously finally gotten back to engaging with customers in person, but what are some of the things the feed on the street have said that you've done? We made the absolute right decision on this pivot. Yeah, well, I think some of it speaks to the point I was just speaking about is that they had no idea that so many of their peers were actually working with Snowflake already and how mature their implementations have actually been. The other thing that folks are realizing is that a lot of the technologies that serve this ecosystem, whether they're in the health tech space, whether they are clinical management or commercial engagement or supply chain planning technologies, those companies are also now pivoting to Snowflake where they're either building a part or the entirety of their platform on top of ours. So it offers this great way to start to collaborate with the ecosystem through some of those capabilities that we spoke about. And that's driving new use cases in commercial, in supply chain, in pharmacovigilance, in clinical operations. Well, I think you just summed up beautifully why the theme of this conference is the world of data collaboration. Yes, absolutely. The potential there that Snowflake is unleashing to the world is, I think is what's captivating to me, that you just scratch on the surface about connecting and facilitating this collaboration and this data sharing in a secure way across industries. Loic, last question for you. Take us home with what is next for Novartis. You've done a tremendous amount of digitalization. 65 use cases in production with Snowflake. What's next for the company? I think that in next year's to come, open collaboration with the ecosystem, but also personalization. We didn't, if you look at digital medicine and access to patients' information, you know. I think this is probably the next revolution that we are entering into. Excellent, and of course those demanding patients aren't going to want anything slower or less information. Guys, thank you for joining me on the program, talking about the Novartis-Snowflake collaboration, the partnership, the outcomes that you're achieving and how this is really dramatically impacting the lives of hundreds of millions of people. We appreciate your time and your insights. Thank you for having us, this was fun. My pleasure. Thank you. For my guests, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE. This is live from Las Vegas, day two of our coverage of Snowflake Summit 22. I'll be right back with my next guest, so stick around.


Governor Samuel Autumn of Benway State has threatened to drag the federal government to court if President Mohammed Buhari's administration insists on implementing its grazing routes and reserves policy. The governor said the Land Use Act was explicit on the issue of land ownership and the management in the country. He stressed that any attempt to subvert his right as a governor through the creation of a non-existent cattle route and reserves would be challenged in court. He called on lieutenants of Mr. President to advise him properly on issues so that things would work better for the country. Pointing out that insisting on cattle routes in the 21st century when states had resorted to enacting laws was rich aggressive. We're joining us to discuss this is Michael Goosa, he's the State Attorney General in Benway State and of course is the Justice Commissioner. And we're being joined by Ladikwa Johnson who is also a legal practitioner. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. I hope that Mr. Goosa can hear us. It's good to have you here. Thank you. Good evening. I watched the clip of the Benway State governor talking this early this morning on another TV station. And he was very explicit as to his demands and what he thought of Mr. President. But when a governor says he's going to take the federal government to court, one would wonder if he has any legal backing whatsoever. I believe he does and it is a smart thing to do in the present circumstances. Because it seems that the federal government under this precedent is hell bent on either first was Ruga, Ranchin and now you understand he's looking at the so-called existing grazing routes. Whichever way the best I think and the smartest step the governor could take is to go to court to determine whether the law that existed before independence, whether it was subsumed under the Constitution and whether the rights to look at the competing rights of the pastoralists with the farmers and those who actually own the land. These are things that have to be looked at. It is not so simplistic. The federal government cannot just do what it seems to want to do. And then when you take everything in a holistic manner, the way the country is at the moment, the tensions, what have you, is best, instead of making it a political battle, is best to look at the legal perspective. Why do you think that the federal government is so in your words hell bent to recreate these grazing routes? There's no reason to hide it. Since we've had clashes between farmers and the nomads of the pastoralists, the government has always spoken and come down on the side of the herdsmen of the pastoralists. So I think the government is trying to say that, okay, let's see how they can sustain and keep their lifestyle, which is grazing and going from area to area. That's what they're looking at. But states have outright banned, especially South East states. Exactly. That's why we say that let it go to the courts. Let the courts determine. Can you stop someone from moving around in a federation? That's one question. Two, a person moving around grazing, going on other people's lands. Is it legal? So there are issues that have to be determined. And I think Governor Autumn has it right. And since his attorney general is on, he can tell us, I think they should go to courts. Mr. Goose, it's good to have you join us. I'm interested in knowing, because I'm guessing that you will be filing this suit on behalf of the Benouist state government.  And that's why he is bent on going ahead with this grazing route. But why do you think that your governor is holding this position? And what exactly has pushed you and your principle to take this position of going to court and taking the federal government to court? Well, first and foremost, I want to thank you very much for having me in this evening. I want to say that I am 100% in support of what His Excellency, the governor of Benouist state has said, just like you've narrated. His Excellency, the governor, Samuel Autumn, is one man that believes in the rule of law and due process. And so when he came as governor of Benouist state in 2015, he met these killings, open killings in Benouist state by the headers. And so he now thought of what will be done to bring a check and so that his people will now live in peace. And he also saw this deal, which has been signed into law now, ranches, open grazing prohibition and ranches establishing law. And when it went to the Benouist state House of Assembly, public hearing was conducted, all the major stakeholders who felt concern came and gave their inputs as to what they would want this law to be. And at the end of the day, His Excellency, the governor, assented to this law. Even though that was assented to him in May 2017, he still gave a period of time because it was a new law so that everybody that was concerned can adopt to the new law. This was Emma bringing peace in Benouist state. And I want to say that you know that by virtue of the provisions of the Land Use Act, the land is vested in the governor of the state. Who was it in trust for the people of the state? And so now that we have this law in place, when they brought the issue of Ruga from two years back, we went to court. And the court declared the process that was initiated by the federal government as a penalty. And that the land is owned by the Benouist state governor. Who holds it in trust for the people of the state? And so federal government cannot now come and impose a decision to come and establish Ruga in the state. So that has gone. They have not even appeared again in that decision. So that is the position that we have in Benouist state. So what am I saying in essence? We have a law here that forbids open brazilian in the state. We have a law here that has repealed the law that created brazilian reserves in the state. And so together with all the instruments that were made during. And so for the federal government to now come and say they will come and acquire land in Benouist state to give it to these headers who have been killing our people, who have made our people to be in IDP camps for the past six or seven years, which is a private business. I think that is totally unacceptable. And we are not going to accept that. The entire people of Benouist state are not going to accept that. We are going to resist that move. And the only way we can do is by going to court to seek to address against the injustice that the federal government wants to come and establish these reserves in Benouist state. But if the federal government is insistent on this and the president had given the attorney general of the federation to go ahead to take a look at these grazing roots. Do you not think that maybe the presidency has done some feasibility studies and they have come to a conclusion that that might be a wholesome way to attack this issue of banditry? Well, the whole world will hear if it is within the powers of the president to take ancestral lands that belong to the people of Benouist state and give to his kids men who are the fuller needs who are coming in from Fudajalo and all over the place, all over Africa to come and take this land and give them the whole world will hear and that is why he is insistent on not insisting on moving to court. I'm so sorry to talk over you. So you believe that the president is doing this in the interest of his people who you call the fuller needs or the normers. This is what you think. What else? What else? You know that a lot of business in Nigeria is private business. They are doing it as a business. They are doing it as their private business. And here in Benouist state we are crop farmers. We have our farms. We are farming on our land. You will not want to come and take over this land and give it to another tribe. That is totally unacceptable. Interesting. I'm going to come back to you Mr Johnson because the attorney general seems to be clear on their stands as to what they want. But looking at it wholesomely and the same question I asked do you think maybe the federal government thinks that their plan would work because they have in Benouist state repealed a law and they have also put another law in place that bans open grazing and they gave ample time according to him for people to adjust but it seemed to have not solved the situation. So maybe could this plan by the presidency? I'm just asking.  Could it be that maybe it would be a wholesome way to deal with the situation? From the president's point of view, yes. They are trying to look for a way to ensure that grazing still takes place in one form or the other. And that's why they said let's look at the 368 grazing reserves that were there some time. God knows how many years ago. And let's look at them. What about those ones that have been built upon? What if a refinery is not built on that? Exactly. What if we have train tracks? That is exactly why I said that they will be tied up in court for quite a long time because even if you are allowed to do it then each one will be determined on its merits. The particular land in issue as an example is it, as the attorney general says, ancestral land. Is it family land? Was it established?  You'd come in, go out and whatever. Does not mean it is yours. Doesn't grant you an easement over the land. You may have been trespassing. Now the fact that they didn't prosecute you for trespassing at that time doesn't mean they can't do that now. So there are many things that will be taken into account and that's why I said what the governor of Benway State has said is a step in the right direction. It will sort the problem out. It would take quite a while but it would sort the problem out. Now, unfortunately this is not the time when the presidency should be insistent on such a thing. So you're saying it makes him culpable? It makes it seem like he has handed the unrest? It's not that it makes it. Are you saying that he's giving these so-called pandits or herders the upper hand? He's giving the impression. The average citizen will look at it. It's not politics. It's the impression that the presidency has given that they are backing the herdsmen or the pastures, whatever you want to call them. They're backing them because first they tried with the Ruga. They've tried several things. So people keep looking at it and saying, oh, you just keep coming back with this thing.  So unfortunately for him, I believe that is the view of a majority of Nigerians. Mr. Goussel, my last question is to you. Before now, before we started having these clashes, we've always had these nomads amongst us. They believed with us. They grazed for years. At what point did it become a problem? Because now this is, yes, we know that guns have been introduced into the equation and so it changes everything.  But whatever happened, where did it go wrong that at this point, even the farmers in Benres state are saying we're standing behind the governor and we do not want to give our lands to be grazed on? Again, it's a two-prong question. Mr. President does have his own, some form of ranch when he goes home every time he goes for a holiday in his hometown. We see his ranch. So it really makes me wonder why ranching is not in the cards for Mr. President. Well, that is the problem that we also have here in Benres state because the headers that we used to know will come with their cattle and then the highest thing they will carry will be their sticks to control the cattle. But now the headsmen that you are seeing, you are seeing them with AK-47. And sometimes you don't even see them with livestock. You don't even see them with cattle. And so their gender now is different from what was obtainable long before now. Now they are coming with an agenda. They are coming to take over this land. They are coming to kill our people so that they can now take over their land and settle here. And we are saying that no, the headers that we used to know... Have you had a conversation with any of these people, for them to tell you, because I'm trying to understand where you got this conclusion from, that they want to take over your land, kill your people and take over your land. How is that even possible?  Interesting. And what's the government doing about it? Well, that is why we keep hearing our governor complain. Come to Benres state, you see more than 2 million people who are living in IDP camps. They have been ransacked from their ancestral homes. And you know that the state alone has limited powers. All this while, the governor has been managing even to sustain these IDPs in these IDP camps. It has not been easy. And I want to tell you that since this has happened, the federal government has never intervened. But we are saying that let us see how we can provide security for these people to go back to their ancestral homes and continue with their farming activities. Federal government has not come to Benres state to say that look, these people have been in IDP camps and this is what we are supporting. The 10 billion that the vice president came and promised the people of Benres that when he visited, up to today, we are not seeing a penny from that money that he came and promised. So I don't need a suzerain to tell me that they want to take over this land. Wow. Well, Michael Guza is the Benres state attorney general and Ladipo Johnson is a legal practitioner. Thank you very much gentlemen for being part of this conversation. Hopefully we will sometime in the future have the governor on this show to tell us extensively what exactly is going on in Benres state. Thank you gentlemen. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break and when we return I will be saying goodbye. I hope you've enjoyed all our conversations tonight. We'll see you tomorrow on Plus Politics as we tackle other political issues. I am Mary Anna Cohen. Have a good evening.


In 1921, a Neanderthals skull was discovered, 60 feet below the ground within Rhodesia. Upon examination, it has since been realized that the skull has been pierced by a high-velocity projectile, such as a bullet to the left temple. Analysis has since shown that this injury occurred at the time of death and could not have been a stray bullet years afterwards. If true, and the source of the hole was indeed a bullet-like projectile, the implications are clearly profound. For how could a skull dated at over 150,000 years old have suffered such an injury? Modern academia states that these remains must be impossible, yet according to author René Norbergen, a German forensic authority from Berlin, quote, the cranial damage to Rhodesian man's skull could not have been caused by anything but a bullet. End quote. The rounded entry point of the wound also testifies to the great speed at which the projectile would have been traveling at the time of impact. However, if the find remained unique, it would have been easy for certain fields of study to disregard its existence as a mere freak of nature, a result of pure coincidence. Yet thankfully, and most intriguingly, Rhodesian man is not the only prehistoric skull which has been found to have suffered this peculiarity. A few thousand miles away, along the Lena River in Russia, a skull belonging to an auroc was later found, an extinct species of wild cattle that lived from 2 million to 4,000 years ago. And just like the cabway skull, aka Rhodesian man, the hole in the auroc's skull is missing radial cracks, evidence that would have been left by a spear, arrow, or any other low-speed projectiles. Just how did these two beings meet their fate? Were they really shot by a firearm? If so, what type of firearm? Who had this capability 150,000 years ago? A time traveller? Or perhaps a hidden history here upon our planet? What do you think? Thanks for watching, and stay tuned for more. Ruins built with knowledge that we will now show far succeeded that which these people who carved their own identities upon these structures ever possessed. The Aztecs, although displaying similar primitive understandings of the path of the sun, interestingly shared similar beliefs to the Egyptians, specific animals connected to astronomical objects are seen everywhere. These similarities in belief structures could be seen as evidence of a sea-going civilization. Ancient peoples crossing oceans, sharing their belief systems with each other. These people who artistically demonstrated their limited and heavily superstitious knowledge of the universe upon all these ancient sites sealed their own fate as imposters to the modern discerning man. Once one begins to explore the unbelievable accuracy, the astronomical alignments, the seemingly impossible feats of block placements, you are seemingly presented with a current controversial truth. How could a civilization who clearly believed that the earth was not only flat, but that all experienced night at the same time could have possibly known the information which was instilled within the construction of such sites, in particular the Giza Plateau. It should now be becoming clear that the ancient Egyptians, the Incas, Aztecs, Mayans, etc., etc., did not build these sites. However, the sites still exist, and their past function is still there to be explained. Why did so many of these civilizations placed far closer to these original constructors than us all agree that these structures were some sort of portal, allowing the passage of gods, spirits, or souls? Why were all these ancient civilizations who undoubtedly worshiped the original creators of the cradle for their people, obsessed over underworlds, portals, and stargates? Most ancient civilizations had belief systems surrounding death, the soul, and the passage thereof. But the strong draw to portals and gateways, somehow allowing the communication with an apparent other dimension, is undeniable. It seems so strongly entwined with these ancient people's beliefs that these civilizations may have been aware of something regarding these amazing structures that we are not. False doors, for example. These doors to nowhere can be found all over Earth, yet interestingly, they are only found amongst the same uncannily astonishing stone cutting, which we are so often noting as indicative of a lost knowledge. Why were these doors created? Have they always led to nowhere? Or was there something extraordinary once triggered by this precise web of ancient structures, all mysteriously aligned upon our planet? A function so many of these ancient civilizations were completely obsessed by. Many things have happened to our planet during its long and arduous journey through the cosmos to where we find ourselves in the present. Many incredible and sometimes destructive events, which we, as a species, are yet to unravel. Many of these mysterious events have thankfully left their marks upon the Earth in many ways, upon many of the oldest of artifacts and geology to be found on every continent. Clues left by these clearly cataclysmic events that many attribute to natural causes. However, there does exist many mysterious anomalies. Vitrified forts, melted stairways, deserts turned to glass, areas in remote places where events have occurred and can no longer sustain substantial life, leaving a landscape barren and scarred. Although we feel our next item of focus is probably one of the lesser mentioned of the anomalies, which shows a dramatic history here on our planet, but is probably one of the most compelling and little understood of them all. Known as the Devonian Concretions, not much is understood regarding these mysterious cannonball-shaped stones, exhibiting a rusty patina. Many speculate that they were once of a metallic composition, often mistaken for fossil eggs, turtle shells, or bones. They are a very common geologic phenomenon in all types of sedimentary rock all over the Earth. We have covered a number of mysterious and as yet unexplained artifacts that were seemingly abandoned in many areas of the world around 300 to 350 million years ago. Interestingly, this is the dating given to the sudden arrival for many of these mysterious and often perfectly spherical so-called concretions. Did something happen at this time in history, involving these fossilized, metallic, possible cannonballs? Many of the concretions that are found in the open on hard ground are more oval in shape, as if warped upon impact with the Earth. Yet the spheres that are found embedded within layers of soft sediments are more often than not more perfectly persevered. The most perfectly preserved spheres are often those found within these softest sediments, most notably those found in Bosnia, Mexico, and Costa Rica, found in sandstone plateaus, including a few spectacularly intact specimens found in soft shale faults within Ohio, USA. How were these amazing spheres formed? If geological, then how did they form in so many different areas of Earth, in so many different types of sediment, solid rock, and on open ground, and show, in many cases, the appearance that they were actually once lodged where they are found, rather than to have grown there through unknown natural processes? We always find geologists and academics passionate denial of any other possibility than the predictably rigid-supported limited list of universal possibilities, which will only ever accept natural processes, though, thankfully, many are beginning to consider a more logical reality surrounding many of these amazing artifacts.


10 simple ways to increase sales page results. Hey, in this video, I'm going to really help you out. I'm going to help you out because we're going to fix your sales page. I'm going to give you 10 different ways that you can improve your sales page results. But before we get started, I need you to click that subscribe button down there. Super important. And next to it is a bell. Okay. You got to ring that bell, smash that bell, then you got to click, get all notifications.  Hey, if you're new to this channel, I'm JR Fisher and I've been selling online since 2009. I've sold digital products and physical products, we've done millions in sales, and on this channel I share with you exactly how to do it so you don't miss out, so you don't have to make some of those mistakes that I made. Heck, my products are sold on thousands of websites including Walmart. So check it out. Survival Cave Food. It's out there. Let's get started right now so I can show you 10 simple ways you can increase your sales page results. Also, I've got a bonus for you. At the end of this video, I've got a $97 e-commerce course that's going to cost you zero because I'm just going to put the link there and all you can do is click on it and you can watch those videos and get you some free training. Now let's get going. Okay. So your sales pages are where you're really going to generate your income. And with a few kind of hidden tweaks that people don't know about, you can really increase the sales of these pages. Now what I want to do is go through the top 10 ways to do it. So let's get started. Number one is use a sales page building software. Now there's a lot of them out there but the problem with most of them out there is that that's all they do. They build a sales page and you have to pay for it. We use Cartra. Cartra will help you build a sales page but it's also a membership site. It's also an email provider. You know, it's also a help desk. It has all these other things. So you wipe out like eight different pieces of software you normally have to pay for. And I've got a special deal for you too. In the description, I have a link there where you can actually try Cartra out for one dollar. So that's pretty good. So check that out in the description at the end of this video. Grab Cartra. It'll help you out so much. And I've tried so many other ones and this is seriously the best one out there. So definitely check it out. Number two, make the page congruent with the offer. So if you're advertising and you have a blue sweater and you say, click here to get this blue sweater, you send them to a web page that is your home page for all your products. You may be thinking, well, that's what I'm going to do. That way I have a whole bunch of different offers for them. But all it does is confuse the person. Understand, if you run an ad for a blue sweater and they click, when they get there, they need to see a blue sweater. It needs to be the same exact sweater. It needs to have the same headline at the top. It needs to say the same things because if it doesn't, our brain kind of gets jumbled and says, oh, I don't want to be here. I'm clicking off.  So number two is make that page congruent. Now, number three is have a headline that solves a problem. That is so, so very important. A great headline would be, you know, 10 ways to lose 10 pounds in 14 days for, you know, new mothers, okay? So people or women who just had a baby. So 10 ways to lose 10 pounds in 14 days for new mothers. That's very specific and that's what they want. They don't want your product. Understand, nobody wants a product. Nobody wants a book. Nobody wants a PDF. They want the results of what your product's going to do for them. So make sure that headline actually spells out the benefit of what your particular product is. Number four, keep it simple. You know, we overthink this way too much and we take these sales pages and we make them super, super long. And there is a place for long form sales page. But generally speaking, the more simple that page is, you know, a plain white background with, you know, red or green or blue text or black text on it is really all you need. And you'll find, if you test this, that those simple sales pages do far better than those really super complicated ones. Because it makes the people, you know, look in all different directions. And if you have a simple page and it's offering a product and it's normally $19.95 and they can buy it for $5.95 and their only choice on the page is click here to buy, you're going to get more sales. But if you have, you know, different pricing levels and you have different colors and all these different things on there, it's going to confuse the prospect and you're not going to have the sales you want from that sales page. Number five, and I kind of alluded to this before, but only have one product available on your sales page. Don't offer, you know, four different versions of that particular product. If you just have one product on that sales page and they've clicked to come to that page for that one product or they saw the social media posts or the video about that product, you're more likely to sell them than if you have a whole bunch of different choices on the page. And number six is offer them volume. And here's what I mean by that. You could have one at $995 or three at $29.95 or five at whatever price you want. But offer them all these different pricing levels and then give them a reason for that. You know, let's say it's a book. It's a physical book and you may say underneath the, you know, the buy 10, buy them for your friends and family as gifts. So you give them a reason to buy these multiples. If you don't offer them multiples on that checkout page, you will find that you're only going to sell one of whatever it is. If you just offer multiples of that product, the same product, more of the same we call it, you're going to sell more of that product, pretty cool tip.  If people think that you have a good product, but they don't see a refund, they don't see a way to get their money back. If they're dissatisfied, they're probably not going to buy from you. Now you may be thinking, well, I don't want to put a refund on there because I don't want to refund people's money. But the problem is you're going to be hurting your own business because you won't be selling as many of your product. That refund is super important. It takes the pressure off the consumer and allows them to whip out that credit card and go ahead and buy your product. So make sure you have a refund policy. Now make sure it is specific. So you may say in their 100% refund no questions asked for 30 days. They know exactly what it is and it makes it really easy for them to buy because they have to worry about it. And what we found is longer refund policies actually don't increase refunds, but they do increase sales. So you may toy around with a 30-day refund policy and a 60-day refund policy. Generally, the 60-day refund policy will increase your sales and not increase your percent of refunds. So try that out. Refund policy. Super, super important to have that when you check out page. Number eight, use urgency on the page. Now urgency could be something like this sale is for five days or 72 hours. And you could have a countdown timer on that page. If they think that this product that's on sale is going to be on sale forever, what is the motivation to go ahead and buy it now? There generally is no motivation to buy it now if it's going to be on sale forever. So you want to make sure that you have some type of urgency on that page. You could also use urgency of supply. And what I mean by that is, you know, we've got 90 of these at this price or we've got 14 of these left and you could have that on the page. So let them know it's not unlimited and no product is unlimited, okay? At some point, that product is going to sell out, whatever it is, and you're going to have to get more of them. It's okay to sell out and then get more and then run your sale again. That's all right, you could do that. Number nine, use bright colors. A lot of times I'll go to these pages and I'll see really dark colors and black backgrounds and this does not motivate somebody to buy a product. So I would highly suggest you use bright colors. If you think of some of the top fast food chains like Burger King, Taco Bell, McDonald's, they all pretty much use the same colors. They've got the yellow and they've got the red and they've got the white. So check it out. Those colors really motivate people to buy and if those big corporations have figured it out, just kind of copy what they're doing. And number 10, you want to protect their privacy and the way you do that is you post on there whenever they're filling out their information that you don't share their information. We put a little line on there that says we hate spam too and we don't share your information with anybody. Privacy has become such a big thing right now with people online. It wasn't like that a few years ago. In the very beginning it was, nobody would put on a credit card and then everybody got accustomed to putting on their credit card and put their name and all their information and then this privacy thing blew up. So it's super important to let them know that you're not sharing their information and of course that you don't share their information. That's super important too. You do keep it private and you do what you say you're gonna do. Make sure you also have a privacy policy on your page that if they're interested, they can click on it and read it. That's really important too. So if you follow these 10 simple ways to increase your sales page results, you will make more money and increase your profit. Why wouldn't you do that? Now, have you built sales pages before or are you new to this? I wanna hear your comments below. What have you found that works? If you've got a technique that works and you put that comment below, you're gonna help out more people and they will appreciate it. Now, don't forget, don't forget if you haven't done it, subscribe to my channel. Click that button down there and ring that bell, that little notification bell down there. You gotta ring the bell because if you don't ring the bell, if you don't turn on notifications, YouTube can't tell you every time I do a video, you may miss out on some training and it could cost you some money. So make sure that you do that. That's super important. Don't forget, also like this video. The more likes, the better. I really appreciate you listening and I also have that bonus for you. Check out in the description down there. There's a $97 e-commerce course you can get absolutely free. All you gotta do is click the link. Thanks so much for listening and I'll see you in the next video. Hey, thanks for watching my video. Don't forget to subscribe to my channel and click that little bell right there so you can be notified every time when I do a new video. Also, click on one of those videos there. Keep watching on my channel.