Okay, welcome again, yeah, we had, so we took some time to go through to understand different parts of how God has made us, the mind, the soul, sorry, the soul, the body and the spirit and our focus being on the soul, to understand that the emotional part of us, the emotional person or soul is what can also be, can also be sick or can also be, can have problems, and that's what we are specifically looking into as to how do we come to a place of wholeness in this area of our souls. So we briefly looked at some, some terms also, and the last thing that we just want to focus again is just to have understanding of the difference between the brain and the soul.  And the brain has areas in it for thinking, for reasoning, for emoting. So that's why we were talking about how the connection between the soul and the physical body is very complex. It's true, even the physical body that one can reason and one can think and emot, because there are centers in the brain that help in thinking and reasoning and emotions. And yeah, so there are those centers that are there. However, the soul is what makes up, like we said, the mind, the will and the emotions and becomes a very real part of us, but gets manifested in the way that it expresses itself through the brain. Unlike being able to see the brain under an MRI or a scan, the soul is something that you cannot see. It's not something that you can scan and see. And that's why it's described as the person with the inner person or the psychological person. The way that you are able to have a good cross-section of the soul is through the way, through expressions of speech, through expressions of attitude, through emotions that come up is how you get to see a lot more. It's more about what the soul is. So you cannot see the soul. It's something that gets expressed in the way that we talk, in the way that we behave, in the way that we emote. So, as we said, the mind affects the brain and the body, and we spoke of something called, like I said earlier, was psychosomatic issues that often, psychosomatic issues often have its root cause in the emotional part or the psychological part of the person. Like, you know, there may probably be times that people who may be psychosomatic have manifestations of their emotional struggles coming across in their bodies either, you know, very common ones are headaches, common ones are joint pains, issues with sleep. All of this comes as a result of the psychological concerns that may be in the very being of the person. In this next part, we're going to briefly look at what are some of the problems that are related to the soul, or what we call is, can the soul be sick? Is it possible that the soul can be sick? Yes, the soul can be sick. And this sickness is the problems that occurs within the soul of the person. And that's what you see as emotional struggles, or that's what you see as psychological struggles. So when we look at these problems, there may be very many examples to this. And just to name a few, and I think some that have been named even in your book are things like anger, uncontrolled anger, deep resentment, hatred, extreme forms of sadness. Fears that can be very, very obsessive or controlling or something that holds on to the person, extreme sense of anxiety, panic, worry, or there can be emotional problems could come as a result of the lack of self-esteem, lack of self-worth. Very significant, deep-rooted rejection that can come about, feelings of insignificance, a sense of insecurity, a sense of being a mistake, being a failure. Some emotional problems come as, excuse me, some problems come as a result of, you know, there are tendencies of self-harm, suicidal tendencies, there can be addictions of many kinds. There are often disturbances in the way one thinks, which could be more into obsessive kind of thoughts, or there can be as a result of the emotional concerns that they can come. There are problems which are manifested physically as in the sense of eating disorders, concerns with lifestyle and health. So when we look at it, yes, the soul can be sick and you have a wide range of problems that you would see through this. The next part of it quickly just looks at what are some of the life's problems that are related to the problems of the soul. And I want to make a couple of mentions over here and also just open up concerns with mental health conditions as well. That becomes, that borders out into, sometimes into a disorder because of the strong issues that have happened in the emotions of the person or in the soul part of the person. So the first one that's listed here is that of certain behaviors and choices. So behaviors and choices that come about. So there are a couple of terms that are used here which is, you know, compulsive, being compulsive, being addictive, being impulsive, being repetitive. And just a couple of examples for this for us to kind of better understand. So then when we're looking at the word compulsive, it is a need to do something. And until that is done, there seems to be no rest or no, no, or there could be a sense of distress if the compulsions aren't followed. So, and I'm sure some of us would have heard the terms called as OCD, obsessive compulsive disorders, where there is an obsession in the mind, an obsessive thought in the mind that leads to a compulsive act. So some of the, you know, maybe I'll just give you some examples of compulsions is the need to, the obsessive thoughts could be one like, you know, the hands aren't clean or there is infection all around. And the compulsive behavior becomes excessive hand washing, or, or there is, there is an obsessive thought about, about not having locked doors, and there is a compulsive behavior of frequent checking in any specific area. So these, these also become issues with the soul because it, it brings about significant distress, and until and unless one resorts to a compulsive behavior, it is, they don't feel settled in dealing with that kind of a distress. Okay, so that's compulsion. When we're looking at addictive, let's look at certain addictions, such as be it alcohol, be it smoking, or be it pornography. A lot of these addictions are resorted to, because there is no sense, there isn't an adequate sense of coping in the emotional realm. So that it, it requires something else or a substance or something tangible to keep itself to cope. Like you would have heard of people talking about how when they, when they're very stressed, once they've had a smoke, they feel a lot more calm. Right. And that becomes a coping to deal with stress. Addictions become a coping to deal with stress. Or people who are going through an emotional, emotional lack tend to get addicted to some form of an experience that gives them that that's, that that makes them feel power over that situation. Usually you see this in pornography, that there is an emotional lack that they experience. And they get addicted to pornography, hoping that that fills up the void that they are experiencing within their emotions. Okay, so that that becomes that's another part of being addictive. The word impulsive. Impulsive is to do make choices without understanding consequences or understanding what, what happens. So sometimes, you know, people with an impulsive nature may do things that are very risky for their lives without really looking at the consequences of it. So the impulse comes as a result of the heightened emotion that may be that they may be going through. So there is, there is, so I'm just going to tell you a bit about some of disorders, psychiatric disorders, or personality disorders that play out here are those who are impulsive in nature that at a point of time. And, and how does this manifest, you know, let's say a person gets into an argument with somebody. And because of the height, heightened emotion, they aren't able to calm themselves down. And the only way to, you know, to get what they want or to be able to cope is to impulsively do something. So that's how, you know, you could many, many suicides I think almost if I'm a right upon the percentage at least the 10 to 12% of suicides happens as a result of impulsive behavior. It is not a well thought of action, but because of the heightened emotions or the struggles they feel within a specific situation, not able to face that distress, get impulsive, and do something. Right. Either, you know, commit attempt to suicide or engage in high risk behavior. So it's impulsivity is all about responding to the emotion at hand, when someone is emotional, you respond accordingly, and that in itself causes significant issues. Okay. The last one is here repetitive, where things are done over and over again, because of the lack of lack of settlement in their minds that that something is enough so continues a repetitive patterns of behavior actually takes on. So even repetition also moves into, like I said, the obsessive compulsive part of it. Okay, so these are some of the behavior and certain behaviors and choices that relate to problems in the soul is that any question here. Okay, I think there was a couple of questions. Can alcoholism be treated as a bloodline curse or, or where do put this bloodline curses example, early deaths, madness, anger. Okay. Avni, we are at page six. Okay, so can alcoholism be treated like a bloodline curse. Now, alcoholism. So, I think I'd like to answer it is two parts is that is to understand that when you look at psychiatry and psychological science, it, they have classified alcoholism as a disorder. Now, what we mean by alcoholism is being dependent on alcohol as a disorder. And if you look at the causes that it talks about is that there can be very many causes that comes natural causes. Okay. And I believe that there are spiritual causes to alcoholism also. So the natural causes that generally take place is it can be hereditary, it can be a learned behavior, a behavior of coping that is learned in the early formative years of an individual where alcohol has been resorted to as a coping mechanism. And that becomes like a, like a, like a mechanism to, to help yourself work through that. So it can be seen as a learned behavior. It can be seen as something that's hereditary or genetic that, you know, family members or there's a family history of alcoholism and you'd probably see that in the generations to come. However, I, I still, I still would say that there are also spiritual reasons for alcoholism in, in the fact that, you know, like, like you would see how suicides. If you look at histories of suicides, you will, you would see that there is, there has probably occurred suicides within that family even, even earlier. So that also, I think is also like a curse that keeps going forward, you know, some, there is an influence of demonic powers in that area of being, of taking away life, of not being able to cope and taking away life. So I'd see that as also as some kind of a generational bondage, not a curse, I think it's better. The word best used is a generational bondage that, that can occur. So yes, alcoholism can have very many different causes. So whether it's as a coping, whether it's as a learned behavior as a result of experiences of the home or whether it be spiritual in nature. Okay. I think, is there any, any other question? If not, we'll move forward. Okay. The next part of problems related to the soul is the emotional well-being. Now, this is a large part, often that, that gets, it's, it's not, it's not shown out as much, or it doesn't come out as much in the open, like certain behaviors and certain choices, because a lot of behaviors and choices are things you can see, it's, it's tangibly seen. Whereas emotional concerns and problems are things that the person suffers through within. And some of these that have been termed here is fear, anxiety, depression, hopelessness, rejection, feeling victimized and having low self-esteem. And all of this could have very many causes to it. So for example, you know, I have seen people who are anxious have a family member who, who has had a condition of anxiety. So that's been the coping of people and it, it moves on as a coping even in the generations to come, that just being anxious about different things and that can, anxiety can, can be generalized in the sense of there can be, there can be a pervasive sense of anxiety on everything. There can be anticipatory anxiety that is wondering what's going to happen even before some of that, that some of those things have happened. So anxiety becomes like a crutch and becomes, and it gets very difficult to move forward in the different things that the individual is doing. So anxiety, panic can all be extremely debilitating for the individual. Fear, fear, fear is another, another important emotional issue that, that comes about where fear arises as a result of some sense, some anticipation of some kind of a harm that, that may come about. So the feeling of being in fear can again be extremely debilitating. Depression, the way that one responds to life in a state of sadness, in a state of a low mood at all points of time where they, where they show extreme pessimism, extreme hopelessness and helplessness in, in different situations that their response to life becomes very, very bleak. There's, there's no desire for the future. There is, there is a bleak understanding of what, what can come about. So this, this is what depression can put people into. Now, and I think I just want to add a note on this is that, so, so depression can also be clinical in nature, right? That, and we do not, I think we do, we do understand what science says. And so if you, if you look into depression, there are different factors that causes depression. There can be an extraneous factor that is a factor from the outside, maybe the life, certain life events that causes depression, or there can be certain traumatic situations that causes depression, or there can also be, sorry, I can't get the word. There could also be internal factors of depression, which means not really having a cause, not really having an open cause that, that, that also classifies as depression. That's what we usually call as clinical depression. Now, however, these depression definitely has roots in the way that one sees themselves and the way that one feels about themselves, the one that where they feel about being victims. So these all have roots in, in, in that, you know, the way that they were seen as young as children or where they where they were handled as young people definitely causes a sense of lack of self esteem. Hopelessness, rejection, rejection, a lot of times it needn't, rejection needn't only be from others, rejection can also happen from within a person. You know, the way the thought patterns, the wrong thinking of a person about themselves, you know, or making meaning into the way others treat them and rejecting themselves, also becomes an issue. So these are certain conditions for emotional well-being and there are, there are very many more, but these are some of the common ones that we, we see. Okay. The next, we focus onto relational problems, problems that arise as a result of the way one relates to, to another or how it manifests itself in relationships and some that have been written here are withdrawal, anger, being dominating, controlling, manipulative, being violent, being hurtful. So a lot of relational problems come as a result of emotional concerns that one may have. Now let's, let's take something for example as manipulative. People become manipulative because there could be a notion that unless and until they get their way done through manipulation, it may never be possible for their inner needs to be met. So, you know, thinking of a good example is how people manipulate others into a relationship with them, either through lies or through deception by, by projecting somebody that they are not so that they get that attention and love and importance that they feel they wouldn't have if they didn't use manipulation as a, as a, as a card. Okay. So manipulation becomes, so it has its root even in emotional problems, anger. Anger is another that comes as a result of unmet needs within, within them, maybe of a sense of not feeling important, not feeling significant, and the only way that they can show their power or their control is by the expression of an anger, expression of anger, or the only way that they could show their authority is by, is by putting others in, in that position where they succumb because of the anger of the person. Withdrawal happens as a result of, you know, not, not being able to probably discuss things with another, the ability to become vulnerable and come to a place of understanding. So that's where, again, withdrawal takes place. So through all of these relational problems, what we commonly see is that there is an underlying emotional struggle, which affects the relationship as such. Okay. There are certain life experiences that can cause emotional problems. And we see that there are two, three written here, but there are so many more infidelity, divorce, deaths, failures, multiple rejections maybe at work, improper relationships, you know, separations, abuse, be it physical, emotional, sexual abuses, all of that has a tendency to cause an emotional struggle. So maybe some examples that I can bring up is, let's say, for, for those who've been abused. There is a sense of a lack of, a sense of lack of self-esteem, a sense of lack of trust on others, the inability to express emotions. So as a result, there is a lot of suppression that takes place, a sense of feeling victimized when abuse happens, a sense of not wanting justice, or it can be a rebellion. So the life experiences in itself can cause a lot of emotional, emotional struggles. Okay. For example, infidelity, or let's say divorce, divorce definitely causes a sense of a lack of, a sense of responsibility of, so generally, when you look at young people or young children who have gone through families who've had divorce, you'd hear young children say, have I been responsible for what my parents did go through? So they take that responsibility over themselves that it was because of them that the divorce happened, or it's because they were inadequate, or they could have done something to, to alter that, that experience, right? So life experiences in itself can cause emotional issues. And lastly, physical health, where physical, physical conditions in itself can cause significant emotional struggles, like for example, deformities in the body, handicaps in the body can affect the mind, can affect the soul, or any kind of physical health issues can cause the, can cause difficulty. So I think I just want to bring up what maybe one more example here, which was, which is something that I read. It talks about autoimmune disorders. So autoimmune disorders are those disorders that cause, you know, the very defense cells that we all have that fights illnesses, which come from outside. Those defense cells tend to see their own cells as foreign. Okay. Sorry, please give me a minute. I need to cough. Sorry. Yeah. So the autoimmune disorders are those where the specific defense cells of the individual attacks the healthy cells of the, of that individual. So you, the, the cells do not recognize the body cells as, as its own, it's, it detects us as foreign. And that's what, that's what an autoimmune disorder disorder is. It begins the immune system fights itself. That's what an autoimmune disorder is. And there was this interesting book that, that spoke about how emotional disturbances often have a causal factor in autoimmune disorders. Like, for example, those who have a poor sense of self-esteem tends to belittle themselves or tends to keep bringing themselves down over and over again. And, you know, with that kind of a pattern that the mind follows, it becomes one with the body, the body also begins to follow suit in what it's doing. So a lot of health conditions also do have its, do have its roots in emotional struggles. Okay. So that's, that's to do with the physical, physical health. And, you know, there are in, in, in the book, it talks about certain scriptures where it says a broken spirit dries the bones. So whenever the emotional or the sole part of you is compromised, it does show its effect on, on the body. And I'm sure that even y'all in your experience have seen how when you are emotionally down, there is, there seems to be no physical strength. There is no ability to function physically. You're not able to concentrate, not able to work. A strong emotional issue can bring one down physically as well. So these are some of the conditions. You know, it's not all comprehensive, but then we've spoken about, about a few here. I think, I think just looking up certain questions. I think Kennedy asked, where does autism fall into? Okay, so autism is a developmental disorder, is a developmental disorder, something that comes as a result of a delay in development in some areas of an individual's life. So, so specifically the hallmark of autism is a lack of socialization, inability to socialize with one another with with others, a lack of emotional involvement or expressions as a sense of emotional detachment that is there and the third hallmark is certain repetitive behaviors. It's shown autism is generally shown to have some sense of a developmental issue. It is a developmental issue than it being an emotional issue. However, someone with autism can have emotional concerns. A lot of children people with autism are seen to be intellectually very, you know, very strong, either in some form of a intellectual skill, there's a lot of, a lot of strength in it. But it's in the emotional and the social part that they have not reached the skill or the ability that should have come by. Okay, and it is in, at least in psychiatry, it's seen as a developmental disorder. Okay. Yes, thank you, Rose. Yes, it's intrinsic. Yes, absolutely extraneous and intrinsic. Thank you. Yeah, so is there any any question anything that either in the form of a sharing or in the form of a thought or in the form, anything? Yes. Yes, Samir, please go ahead. Thank you, Pastor. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you. Okay, great. So, Pastor, I was wondering, so, say, especially for inner wholeness, a lot of the diseases, the brokenness that we see, if it's, say, a complex or rage or I'm considering a lot of these would have stemmed at an early childhood age.  And so my thought is, like, let's say, you know, because of something happens to a child and we live in a fallen world and not everything's perfect. And if something happens to a child in his early age, which causes certain behavior traits, whether it's an obsessive compulsive disorder or something and and this person struggles to it. Let's say, you know, for example, say, it could be a believer itself, except for, you know, Christ at a young age, but these, this thing, the disease, the brokenness inside is so prominent and it's a part of his or her character, person struggles and only at a much later stage, this, you know, realizes through the proper teaching and guidance realizes that it has already been healed and then, you know, slowly through right counseling, through a lot of things finally recovers. But then, but then during that period, you know, all the damage that has already been done, all the relationships that has been broken, all the tears, Allah. So, I mean, in one sense, it doesn't seem fair, but again, life's not fair. But my question is around, you know, like, because of something that happens to a child in a very young age and and and all the damage that it does to a person. But then eventually come to a point to realize that it could have all been avoided. The healing could have come the healing could have come at a much younger age. So, is like, how does, how do we, like, how do we get to that? How do we avoid like, I'd say, probably a part of it is the church's responsibility, part of it is responsibility of elders. But, but again, at the same time, you know, recognizing the importance of I think protecting our young ones, but at the same time recognizing what damages have been done to young people and working towards it proactively. I think, you know, just waiting for instead of waiting for a person to realize that I have an inferiority complex because of what happened to my parents when I was four or five years old. Or I have, you know, I have a compulsive disorder because, you know, when I was growing up, this was the environment that I grew up in, you know, later on the person realizing and then looking for help. Is there a proactive way due to rich, a lot of damage that happens to a lot of people's lives where and for some it's like too late, you know, it's only when we like the person's already committed suicide and we realize that because of the history or past like this person became the person he was. So, so I don't know if they're all like other individuals organized like I'm just thinking, you know, very broad context of how can a lot of this be avoided like treatment is one, but avoiding preventive and even early recognition early recognition and proactive working towards these instead of, you know, a late recognition. So I think it's struggling with these thoughts. Okay. Yeah, great. I think that's, that's a great question. However, I don't know how much we how much I can justly answer that but nevertheless I think some of things that we need to probably do is making people aware of the this part of people's lives, the soul part of their lives the emotional part of their lives. And especially in our culture, I think I'll speak for us as the Indian culture, maybe a lot more way down south is, you know, and I don't know how much how many of you all feel the same way. You're not encouraged to discuss emotions you're not encouraged to talk about what you may be going through or or allowed display of some of these emotions.  I was asked to stop I was asked to not cry, not emote, or even not talk about it. Right. So what happens is over time, there is a suppression of very many emotions that take place. And that gets built up largely and gets manifested in in wrong patterns, gets manifested in in wrong ways of expressions. So, and something that I do see now, at least because there's so much of awareness about mental health. And there is so much of awareness about thoughts and feelings and emotions. There is the people are being more open about it, people are being at least knowing that, you know, this is something that cannot be stuck in or shouldn't should not have expression to. So, as in the sense of I'd say prevention, this is one is to just as much as you see the physical development or the intellectual or academic development or the spiritual development. The spiritual development of an individual, you also need to look at the emotional development of a young person or as a young child, because this is what if you look at us as a whole, there are different compartments of us. There is, like I was saying, there is the physical part, there is the emotional, there is the intellectual, there is the spiritual, there is the social part of us, all of this makes an individual what they are. I think first and foremost, the most important thing to do is build that awareness that the emotional, the inner person side of you is as valid a person just as much as it is a physical and for those of us who are believers also a spiritual. So, that's one. Early recognition, one way is for more awareness to be built as to how emotional conditions can definitely affect the individual's life, individual's future, individual's purpose and struggle. And this, I think, begins number one at home where parents need to, so often what we tend to do is, there's a book that's called Shepherding a Child's Heart, if any of you are interested, please buy that book and read it, it's an excellent book. It talks about how the behaviors of a child is what is usually focused on, but not the heart behind the behavior. So, often we tend to put a bandage on the behavior, tend to reduce the behavior, reinforce the behavior, but we do not look at the heart of the behavior. So, I think one, the first and foremost place is for parents to be able to work with their children in order to look at the heart of a matter or heart of a behavior or heart of a thought or heart of an intention and what lies within that and work with the child to be able to process that so that, you know, that becomes more pure and more acceptable. And out of the, you know, out of the wellspring of the heart, that's what scripture talks about. So, out of the purity of the heart is what the behavior comes in. So, these are the, I think the two ways that I'd just like to just share. I mean, while you're talking, I just realized a lot of us who is geared towards the intellectual and the physical development of a child, but there isn't much proactive steps taken to the development of an emotional and emotional and the spiritual health and well-being of a child. So, probably, as you mentioned, parents realizing this and equipping themselves to handle emotional and emotional development of a child, but there isn't much proactive steps taken to the development of an emotional and spiritual health and well-being of a child. Yeah, I guess you mentioned, you know, parents realizing this and equipping themselves to handle emotional and spiritual development of children. And even I think spiritual, for a lot of believers, they may have some idea of shepherding spiritual health in Sunday schools and churches do a lot, but I think the emotional development could be a bit tricky. I'm not sure how well people are equipped to handle emotional development of a child. I'll definitely read the book Shepherding a Child's Heart. Yeah, it's by Tendtrip. Okay, yeah, okay. Yes, I think Christopher and Shae, Christopher, you have a question? Or Shae, one of your? Pastor, I think this is related to Sam's question, maybe in a little different approach. This is really about children who may be impacted by some kind of a trauma or some kind of incident, which can impact them. But they're not aware that this event has taken place or maybe there is a defense mechanism which has happened and that event has been, in a sense, forgotten. And it wouldn't really come out of normal therapy session. It just sort of is within that person being, there is a deal with it basically and then it can just sort of get out uncontrollably in different forms. So I guess my question is about how would one treat this kind of situation. Sometimes we hear about people go through some kind of hypnosis therapy where they actually sort of go through a session and this traumatic incident or this traumatic phase in their life, which could have happened even during infancy or when they're a baby. That incident then gets a repeat. So I just want to just get your thoughts on that. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, so I like I said I'd like to discuss this in two levels. One is for a believer or and maybe an unbeliever. So when there are significant traumas that have happened, especially in childhood, either being too young to remember or as a defense mechanism has absolutely no memory. Of it and that can happen even even in an adult, absolutely having no memory of it because of the shock and the trauma that it has bought. We know that the Holy Spirit is the one who reveals deep truths of us. So I know of people who've been through inner healing sessions where things of their past, which they were not consciously aware of has been revealed to them, either through a prophetic word, or through a personal revelation that is there. And that in itself has bought them to a place of freedom. So I think that is highly recommended for every one of us to go to go through a place of inner healing. And, you know, just just to come to a place of having the spirit reveal things to us that may not be consciously that that we may be consciously aware of, or that we subconsciously have suppressed because of the pain and the struggles it bought. So as a believer, I believe that is possible. The more that we submit to the working of the Holy Spirit, the more that can be revealed and that brings about healing. Like we read in scripture, God wants us to be whole and holy in every area of our lives. And he is desirous to do that when we seek and ask him. Looking at it from people who do not know God, there again, you know, so let's say someone who's not at all conscious about what has been the trauma that happens to them. But the manifestations of that trauma will be very, very evident. Okay. And that happened. So manifestations being, you know, either issues in the relationship, issues in the way that they conduct themselves in the way that they have experiences emotionally, definitely will take them to a place of actually seeking and finding out. And so in that way, yes, counseling and therapy is very useful, where with the permission of the individual, they are allowed and they, you know, they look back into into finding out what have been some of the contributions that has caused them there. Maybe there's certain limits to that because probably psychology may not really deeply dig out that which is forgotten or entrenched or maybe as a child, you know, as a baby, like you said, is something that's happened as a baby or as an infant. But nevertheless, there are certain things that will be revealed. Like I have an example of a lady who told me that she doesn't remember completely, but that she felt and she thought she was abused by her father, sexually abused by her father when she was two or three years old. So there have been manifestations of that, that that struggle in her current relationship. So that's how that information actually came about. So as, you know, she was talking and she was exploring. This was something that she bought up and she said this is not something that I have ever spoken of or I ever thought of, but it just came to me. I just remember very vaguely these things that have happened. So I believe that, you know, as as an individual is helped to explore some things may be revealed and you use what you have or you use what the person is able to bring out and help them to come to a place of healing. Sometimes, you know, things may be so painful that it is it may be better forgotten. These are all for unbelievers may be better forgotten than to actually be bought up because there was I remember another client who who she wasn't aware that she was abused. But but you know, one of her family members had told her that she was abused as a child and that in itself just the revelation of that entire trauma in itself took her to a very different emotional state and it took very, very much to help her to come to terms with one of that. So as a believer, when the Holy Spirit convicts or when the Holy Spirit reveals, he's also bringing in his healing touch. He's also providing healing just as much as an awareness. And that I think is the safest place to do it in knowing that whatever struggles that come as a result of some of those situations, there is power to heal that is powered to to be delivered from. Yeah, I think I'll, I'll leave that answer to that. Yeah. All right, I think we'll close it's 11, almost going to be 1158. May I request anyone to please close in prayer, any, any student to please close in prayer. Rupa, can I? Yes, Avni, go ahead. Avni, go ahead. Avni, you can pray. Please go ahead. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Father God, we just want to thank you, Father.  You have made this way for us to be well equipped to learn the things that we would never learn outside, Father, but you made it possible for us to come together in your presence as we sit and learn, Father. May this teaching, may this learning be a great help, Lord Father, to bring healing to the world, to bring healing to ourselves, to bring healing to the people around us, Father, and be a blessing, Lord Father, in the way you want us to bless others, Father. Lead us by your Holy Spirit and equip us well, Father, and Lord Father, teach us what we need to learn, Father. We are open to you, Father. We invite you to come and do the work that you want to do. We thank you for, Ma'am. We ask you to continue to bless her, continue to fill her, continue to lead her Father and help her to be a blessing to many, many, many more generations. We once again thank you for who you are and how you're leading us. We thank you once again for this platform. We give you glory, honour and praise and ask this bread in the precious and matchless name of Lord our Saviour. Amen. Jesus Christ. Amen. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you, Avni. Thank you all. God bless. Thank you so much. Thank you. We meet next time. Thank you. Thank you.


That's why I often say, good teachers are like good cooking. And I know you're a good cook.  I want some more. It tastes good. I feel good. That's what good education is like, too. Welcome back to the Up Close podcast, the home of conversations about the present and future of public education. Today on Up Close, we are very privileged to have with us one of the nation's most influential voices on education, Dr. Pedro Niguera. Dr. Niguera is dean of the USC Rossier School of Education and the author of more than 250 articles about the ways in which schools are influenced by social and economic conditions. He also is an author and co-author of 15 books, including common schooling, conversations about the tough questions and complex issues confronting K-12 education in the United States. He is a regular commentator on CNN, on MSNBC, and NPR. He has editorials that have appeared in The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, and many more. And he also has not only been a professor at UCLA and the Harvard Graduate School of Education and NYU. He is the recipient of seven honorary doctorates from American universities. Welcome, Dr. Niguera. Thank you, Sarah. It's great to be with you. Dr. Niguera, we are so honored to have you with us today and on the board of the NEA Foundation, where we share in a commitment to educational justice, equity, excellence, and opportunity. At the Foundation, we're very hopeful as we consider the resources that are being released right now by the US Department of Education and philanthropies around the country to help educators in schools to advance the goals of educational justice and equity. But at the same time, we see that those goals are sometimes or they seem sometimes held up more as lofty ideals while the basis for them and the reasons and the urgency that some feel about that press toward equity isn't equally felt by all, and perhaps even more pervasively, how to operationalize those commitments isn't always clear. But you have studied schools across the country, and you've written extensively about the inequities and the disparities that characterize much of public education in the country. And I've also heard you say that the path to educational excellence is through equity. So could you unpack that a little and share with our audience about what you have observed and how you think about educational equity, excellence, and opportunity, and the path forward for public education? But thank you, Sarah. And thanks for the opportunity to be with you in this podcast. It's been great work with the NEA Foundation, and I'm glad to see you providing this kind of service to the members and others who will listen in about education in the United States is that the inequality in our society shows up in our schools. And the clearest example of that is that more often than not, the backgrounds of kids predict and determine their academic outcomes. For the longest time, we've known the strongest predictor of how well a child will do in school is how much money the family earns, household income. When you combine household income with family education, particularly how much education the mother had, because the mother is usually the first teacher of a child, then you could predict with great consistency how well kids will do. And that should trouble all of us because many of us know there are lots of kids whose parents didn't go to college or kids who grew up poor or working class who have great potential. And so the job of schools is to cultivate that potential in all kids, which means in order for our schools to drive equity in a society that's so unequal, they've got to see the gifts in all children, they've got to cultivate the talents in all children, and they've got to respond to the needs of all children. And as we know, the needs kids bring aren't simply academic, they're social, they're emotional, they have to do it nutrition and health, which makes this work so complicated. So thank you so much, Dr. Neguera. So what then would you say is required if schools are going to be more just and equitable for all students? So we really have to start by asking ourselves, are our schools organized to meet the needs of our kids? I would say many of our schools aren't. What instead, I would say many of our schools don't even start on the assumption that we know what's best for the kids and expect the kids to adapt. So we don't teach kids the way they learn, we expect them to learn the way we teach. Let me explain the difference. Most kids don't learn through direct instruction. If you watch a child who is learning to play a new video game, they don't get a lecture on it first. They go on and play, they learn by doing. They learn through mistakes. They learn by going on YouTube and having that game modeled for them. And ultimately, as they learn, they learn through mastery. So they get better and better with time. In a classroom, if that's the way learning looked, what we would see is kids doing much more experiential learning, working in groups, kids who are not afraid or intimidated about asking questions because we learn through mistakes and kids whose work demonstrates clear evidence of mastery over time, which means that in acknowledgement, they're gonna learn at different places, they're gonna learn in different ways because they're not all the same. And equity acknowledges those differences. I often say any parent of more than one child should already know this because even among our own children, they're not all the same. They have different temperament, different personalities, different needs. As a parent, we are concerned about outcomes for our kids. We wanna see our kids lead happy, fulfilling lives. In schools, we've been focused on one outcome, which is their test scores. And that to me is the problem, part of the problem because when you get fixated on test scores, you overlook all the things that need to happen in order to get better outcomes for kids, like creating a safe learning environment, creating a supportive learning environment, creating an environment where kids can learn with their peers without feeling bullied or intimidated or where their teachers are there to support and guide them. So I think we have to start from scratch again and really think about the conditions for good teaching and learning. And ask, are those two conditions in place in our schools? Dr. Niguera, would you say more about what you see those conditions as? I know you've mentioned just a few just now. Yeah, so I often think of teaching as I use the analogy of teaching in gardening. I'm a gardener, I like to garden. I know that if I have fertilizer, if I have good topsoil, water, sun, that my vegetables will do well. When they don't do well, I don't blame the vegetables, right? I don't blame the tomato. I must have done something wrong, none of water, too much water, none of sun. I try to get the conditions right. Same as true in the classroom. When we see that some kids are making progress and others are not, we have to ask ourselves, is that child getting the support they need to learn? What's missing? It might be they're not getting enough support at home. What many people don't acknowledge is homework is an equity issue. Some parents have time to help their kids and have the education to help their kids. Some kids don't even have a place to get the homework done. How is that equitable to treat them all the same when we know they don't live under the similar circumstances? So when we see our children and know them as people, not in terms of their stereotypes, their race or their test scores, then we're in a better position to know what does it take to get those children motivated and excited about learning? How do I create a safe learning community where kids are free to ask questions and learn together? And how do I create an environment where they're stimulated and challenged so they'll want to learn? The evidence that we're doing it right is when kids tell us they are excited about learning. They want more. I asked why I often say good teachers are a lot like good cooking. I know you're a good cook. This thing will eat you, it will tell you. Wow, that was good. I want some more. In case you're gonna feel good, that's what good educations like to. Let me push you on that just a little bit though. I mean, yes, you talked about some of the inequities that happen outside that influence what happens in the school, but what about the school itself in terms of what kind of a welcoming environment it is creating for kids? I know you've written a lot about, especially how the environment has influenced black boys in schools, but beyond that as well. Can you say a little bit about that? Yeah, we've known for many years that the culture of a school has a profound impact on things like teacher morale. Do teachers feel supported? Do they feel encouraged? Do they feel as though the leadership is behind them? But the culture also tells kids, is it cool to be smart? Is this a place where I try hard? Is this a place where I feel respected and supported and safe? The culture of our school is ultimately what distinguishes the best schools from the others. And by best, I don't mean those that have every kid getting into an Ivy League school. I mean best in terms of bringing the best out of kids, bring cultivating that desire to learn. Here's the challenge. Every school has a culture. Some schools have a dysfunctional culture. They might be adult-centered. They may not be safe. They may be places where adults don't collaborate or where there are strains between the teachers and the parents or among the kids. That's not an environment that's conducive to good teaching and learning. And so what we have to do is work to create school cultures that are positive, that are student-centered, where order and discipline prevail not because of security, but because of the quality of relationships between the adults and children and amongst the children themselves. Cultures can't be imposed on schools. Cultures develop organically through the relationships amongst the teachers, students and staff. And so that's the reason why developing a strong positive culture is such a challenge for so many schools. So I can't help but ask you then where you might have seen exemplars of this. And also I know that you are proponent in particular of community schools as one place where the strategy of social and emotional learning and experiential learning and bringing supports and resources into a school is understood as essential, but somewhat about community schools and then beyond, where do you see the most promise? Yeah, as you said, there are schools that are committed to a more holistic vision. We're calling these community schools because they have the resources to address the social needs of kids, the psychological needs. They have social workers on site. They have afterschool and preschool programs. They're also working with parents so that parents get support. And when you can bring that all together, then it's not all on the teacher. Teacher can't be expected to be a psychologist, a social worker, a surrogate parent. That's what leads to burnout and it's unfair and unrealistic. So the community school model is one that many schools and districts are trying to embrace, but it's helpful to know what it looks like when it's done well. So I'll give you an example of a school I know well here in Los Angeles, Social Justice Humanitas High School. It's located on the Cesar Chavez campus in a very poor community in Pocoima, which is in northern part of LA and the 100% of the kids are low income, 100% Latino, many undocumented. It's the kind of school which you just look at the demographics would be a failing school because typically schools with those demographics are failing, high dropout rates, low test scores. This school has the fourth highest graduation rate in all of Los Angeles. It is a community school. They start the school three days early all focused on getting working on relationships among the students and between the students and the teachers because they know that the quality of the relationships will influence the quality of the teaching and learning and the outcomes of kids. Now I asked the principal, how do you get kids to come in three days ahead before school starts? He said, we just tell them to come and they show up. So it's not as hard as it might seem. They haven't had a fight in over seven years at this school even though it's in a neighborhood surrounded by gangs. Why? Because they know the kids and they make sure the kids feel safe while they're there. I was visiting a few years ago and I talked, the principal was giving me a tour of the school and I thought for sure they must be just showing me the good parts. I said, I like to talk to a group of kids. He said, well, we got a group in the library. Why don't we go inside?  And I asked the question. I said, how often are you inspired by what you learn at school? Several kids shot up their hands and said, we're inspired every day. I said, I don't believe you. I said, what did you learn yesterday? The girl said, yesterday we learned about the forced sterilization of women that was occurring in this country in the 1930s and 20s under eugenics. We started learning about it in biology. Then we learned about some more in social studies. We learned who was behind it, where it was happening. So I was so disturbed by what I learned. I went home and told my parents about it. And then we went online and studied some more. And I thought to myself, what's the sign of good education? Kids want more education. They're going back and talking about it with their parents and their siblings. So when you see a school like this, you know that it's really not about the money. Money always helps. But this is not a school with a lot of resources. And it certainly is not a school that's serving affluent kids. These are low income poor kids. But it's a school that serves them well because they know them and they know how to provide the support they need so those kids can be successful. You know, I'm not so old, Dr. Neguera, that I don't recall Dr. Marva Collins and her teaching about that. So many others through the years, as you have said, not such a difficult set of principles and practices and understandings and the importance of relationship and so forth. So why don't we see this kind of approach more across the country? What are the impediments? Part of it is that there are a lot of educators who've never seen a school like the one I just described. What they're more accustomed to is what we see throughout America. Wherever poor kids are concentrated, we often see schools fail. Think about all the state takeovers of school districts. All of those are in low income communities, often black and Latino communities. You know, in California, the state has still, it's still in control of Inglewood schools. It was in control of Compton schools. Did the state help those schools get better? No, but it was under control. And I think that if you're an educator who works in a district like that, you don't know, you don't have a sense of what's possible. I had the experience a few years ago of being asked to visit Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Tuscaloosa is home to the Great Crimson Pride University of Alabama, great football team, not great schools. In a college town, totally segregated district or black, visit Bear Bryant High School, named after the great football coach. And I'm asked to speak to the teachers there. And many of them are kind of, I could just tell cynical about hearing from me, a college professor coming to visit.  No one raised their hand. I said, you've never seen it. They said, we've never seen it. I said, then I bet you don't believe it can be done, do you? Several said, yeah, we don't believe it can be done. I said, well, I challenge you. I challenge you to come with me. I could take you to school and schools in New York City that I know and work with that you can see this happening. They sent eight teachers up to New York that fall. And I took them to Medgar Evers High School in Brooklyn, school that's 100% black, where 100% of the kids graduate, over 95% go to college. Some of the best colleges in the country. They were blown away by the kids and by what they saw because they had never seen black children excelling in this way. My point is that if you've ever seen it, after a while you start to believe the problem is the kids, right? And that unless you can do something about those kids, nothing can change. What these teachers got to see is, no, it's not about changing the kids. It's about changing the way we treat the kids, changing the way we provide support and simulation to kids so that all kids have the opportunity to learn. And yet not everyone is going to have that opportunity to take that trip and have their eyes open. So what else can be done to promote this kind of change systemically? You know, the mindsets, the capacities, the approach. What do you see as the opportunities for broad change? You know, this is where the problem gets political because ideally state departments of education should do what I was doing for those teachers in Tuscaloosa. They're the ones that should be exposing these teachers to best practices, to successful schools because you're right, not everybody has that chance. But there's not a single state in the country that knows how to support schools. I want you to think about that for a moment. Can you name a single state that is shown that it has the ability to take schools that are low performing and provide support to help them become high performing? Not one. And I've worked in many of them, all around this country. And that's because most state departments of education focus on compliance. Are you in compliance with state and federal mandates and how to spend money? They don't know how to help schools address really basic things, like how do we teach kids to read? How do we get parents involved? How do we get better outcomes in math, et cetera? So some of the problem is political. I often used to blame no child behind because it had us focused on the wrong thing, the student test scores. But now with ESSA, we are freed up from some of that. But many states are still really directing schools to be judged by test scores. My hope is that under the Biden administration, we'll start to see more creative approaches being promoted from the federal government so that states will realize we don't have to keep doing things the wrong way. We can trust educators to do a better job at meeting the needs of kids and make sure that good education becomes more widely available. And I love what you've just said. Trust educators because what we know is amid all of those constraints, there are millions of educators across this country who are bringing their very best to children every day. And yet it's those same educators as around the country who now are dealing with these polarizing political forces such as all the energy that's been generated around masking and CRT and so forth. And school very much being mired in those issues. A lot will say that this is making the teaching practice somewhat impossible and we see teachers leaving the workforce very, very sadly. Our frontline teachers. Where do you find hope amid all of those struggles given the ideals that you put forward? I find hope in the teachers, in the students, in the parents who despite the political distractions, despite the obstacles that many states have created, I'm thinking of the don't say gay law now in Florida as yet another example of bad policy. There are kids showing up every day who still have dreams and hopes of using education to improve their lives. There are still teachers who are in this work not because of the money, but because they wanna make a difference and they understand the power of education to make a difference in the lives of children and their parents who sacrifice to make sure that children get a good education. So that gives me a source of hope for the future. And I have more hope and more faith in the educators and the kids and parents than in the politicians by any means. Ultimately it's the kids that'll be the key to our future not the politicians. So that then speaks to the power also potentially in family school and community partnership. And this is something about which we also are passionate and want to see much more of. And what would you suggest with respect to how states and local education administrations might embrace those practices more? You know, I can't say it enough. You can't really make a change without the parents and community behind you. Parents influence over 50% of student outcomes. Parent education drives outcomes, but you don't have to have a great deal of education to influence your kids. That's right. I might need to have my parents graduate from high school and they might send all six of us to college, some of the top college in the country. What parents need is to make, schools have to build a partnership with parents. So there's reinforcement for learning at home. Now, again, you don't need a state mandate saying to do that. What you do need is guidance on how to do that in communities where there's diversity, community where parents speak different languages, where parents are working and busy and don't have time to show up at your school at three o'clock in the afternoon because they're working. So we have to be creative about how we engage community, how we engage parents. But when that comes together, it's very powerful and it can even compensate for the effects of poverty and inequity in our society. And I, wouldn't you say that we've seen that demonstrated abundantly during the pandemic when we really had to rely on parent leadership to move kids' education forward in partnership with the teacher? What would you say, along with that, have been some of the things that we also have seen in the pandemic that we've learned through the pandemic that we can bring now to the furtherance of public education to improve public education? So that's a great question. I've thought a lot about, you know, the pandemic was so disruptive, difficult on many people, especially those who had to work as essential workers during this period of COVID at much higher rates, et cetera. It was also an opportunity to disrupt the status quo and not go back to the same things, same strategies that weren't working before. So we have to use this as a moment to create schools that are more responsive to student needs, create schools that are more supportive of our teachers and really do the work we knew during the pandemic. If parents weren't involved at home, kids didn't even get it on Zoom, right? If kids, if households didn't have access to the internet, the kids couldn't get on Zoom. So figure out how do we work together? How do other communities step up to make sure kids have access to good learning opportunities? Virtual learning will be a part of the learning landscape for years to come now. We know it works in many communities, especially if we have devices and good internet at home. But we also know there are a lot of kids who need the human contact from a teacher, especially little kids who are learning. And so we need to make sure that our schools are organized to respond effectively to the needs of their community in all its forms. And that's where leadership comes in and having good leaders who have a vision for how to do that and not to be distracted by the politics is really key. And we have some tremendous opportunities ahead of us. We have a tremendous amount of money now in ARPA and through the Omnibus Appropriations Bill, having just been recently passed that we can now use to promote some innovation and adoption of some of these practices that you've talked about. As you consider that and you know that across the country, SEAs and LEAs, excuse me, State Education Administrations and local administrations are planning for the use of these funds. What are some of your recommendations about high priorities? So great question because we are at an unusual point. When have we ever been able to say in education where money is not a problem? Well, in many places right now that's the case. There's in fact more money than some districts know how to spend. So what concerns me now is making sure that we spend it wisely on things and then our strategies that will be sustainable after the money has dried up. We know right now to address the learning loss that's real, tutors make a huge difference. That one-on-one attention. Now, the question there is do you have well-trained tutors who can provide that support to kids? But that to me is an investment that makes a huge difference. We know that music, sports, theater, all enhance learning for kids. The research is very clear. Kids who involve in music, sports, theater, write for the newspaper, do better than kids who don't. Why? Because they're developing other habits, more discipline, teamwork through those activities and the love of learning often that comes from that involvement. So this is a chance to find ways to take a more holistic approach to education, to get kids more engaged deeply in school so they want to be at school and school is not a chore and not an alienating experience. Thanks so much for that. And Dr. Niguera, I want to ask you somewhat of this bit of a left turn, but I can't resist. As you think about it, whose responsibility is public education? It's all of ours. It's at the entire society. And I think we lose sight of that. We like to blame the secretary of education or blame the president or governor or the teachers. And blame is not a strategy for improvement. If you look at countries that are doing better than, and we don't have to look far, go to Canada. You see a country does much better than us. I spent a lot of time in Canada where speaking more than one language is common, right? Because they don't wait until kids that enter middle or high school to teach the second language they started in kindergarten. But it's also a place where you see resources going to schools because if a school is struggling, they don't threaten the school. They don't just pressure the school. They find ways to help. They see a school struggling in math. They send coaches who know math to the school to work with those teachers. They build the capacity of schools. There's a lot we could learn. I often say that highest performing urban district in North America is Toronto. How many Americans know that? How many Americans know for the last 20 years Toronto has made steady improvements so it's a world-class educational system not because of threats and gimmicks but because they focused on building the capacity of the educators and the schools when the skills of the educators are aligned to meet the needs of kids, outcomes improve. That's the work we should be committed to in this country. Absolutely. We certainly have that perspective and not only do outcomes improve but very, very importantly children's experiences of education and their love of learning improves and that really is the beginning and end of it all for us. Wow, this time is really, really rich, Dr. Nigera. I think that so much of what you have said is so consistent with certainly the views of the NDA Foundation but I think that when we also think about why some of these ideals aren't realized a lot of it has to do with whose voice is privileged in the shaping of public education and certainly know that when educators, leadership, when they're shared learning, when they're collaboration, when their innovation is supported in particular we see more energy in the school, we see the educators' enthusiasm for their ideas being put into practice really flows to the kids and they get excited as well. How can we ensure that educators' voices are brought more into the leadership in the shaping of public education? You know, so this is, I'm glad in U.S. with the NDA Foundation is asking that question because I think our teacher unions, NEA, AFT have to be heard, they have to be advocates for not just for teachers but for the education generally. Education, if you think about it, should be a non-partisan issue. It shouldn't matter who the president is or who the governor is, kids have a right to a good education regardless of the political agenda. That's not the case now. It does make a big difference who's in leadership. I might be naivir because I know politics well enough to know how difficult it is to get state legislatures to do the right thing but I have to think that when we use the organizations that represent us to clearly articulate what's important, it can make a difference. Thank you so much. And at the same time, we have just affirmed that family, school and community partnership, whole community engagement in schools can also make a difference to come alongside and to support the commitments of LEAs and SEAs that are trying to improve educational outcomes. So if we think about that there are millions of people across this country who would like to see public education be all that it can be who want to see justice and equity brought to public education and they're looking for a role that they can play. Maybe they're a parent, but maybe they're just someone in community that cares about what is happening through our schools. What would you suggest can be done that those folks can understand? Yes, there is a role for you to play in public education. Well, I think it's very important to try to get involved. Get involved locally to make sure that teachers get the support they need, our schools get the support they need.  But also we need people to get about the state level to make sure that the states don't adopt laws that make the job of education more difficult. We've seen several states already pass some very reactionary policies, trying to silence our history so kids don't learn about our history, they're trying to, again, pass laws that make it difficult for people who are gay or transgendered for their rights to be respected. So we've got to be involved at that level as well to make sure that the voices of a few don't dominate the direction of education, which is, I think, happening in many places right now. Yes, the voices of a few dominating. Yes, in public education. Dajin Aguirre, I would like to, we're nearing the close of our time together, just that you have been so generous with us to share your ideas and your observations. I would like just for fun to ask you a little bit about your story and your best experience in education and why it made, why was it your best experience? So I could tell many, but I'll just start early on. As I mentioned, neither of my parents graduated from high school or college, but they believed in education. They believed it so much that on Saturdays, after we did our chores, and we always had to do chores first, they would send us to the library, which was not far away. And fortunately for us, there was a librarian there, Ms. McDonald, who took interest in each one of us to find out what we liked. And when I was in third grade, Ms. McDonald introduced me to a wrinkle in time. Oh, no. I would have never read on my own. And I liked Ms. McDonald, I trusted her, she said, you liked this book. Well, I did. And a week later, I was back and asking for more. And at the age of eight, I became an avid reader. When you become an avid reader at a young age, you get to control your education. Because now you're in a position to learn the things, whether it's being offered or not, you can learn on your own. My father always taught us, you get a free education with a library card and he practiced it. And so think about what would have happened during the pandemic if kids were reading. Even if they didn't have access to the computer, they were reading books. We'd be in a very different place in this country. We'd be in a different place in terms of voting because people wouldn't be as easily manipulated by social media because they would understand what's a reliable source, what's fake news. So a lot of what we need is really basic. The ability of kids to read, think critically, do research, they have more control over their lives. And in closing, Dr. Nagara, I ask everyone, lastly, if you could make two to three recommendations that policymakers would take to heart and implement to see incredible change in public education, what would those be? I would say focus on conditions in schools. We know that there are five essential conditions that have to be placed for schools to be to experience improvement over sustained time. They need a coherent curriculum. They need teacher collaboration. They need parent involvement. They need positive school culture and they need leadership with vision. But we also, and that should really be the basis for state education policy, I think. I think beyond that, we need to make sure that the resources get to schools so that they have the ability to implement that vision. And then we need politicians to get out of the way and not make the job more difficult. Dr. Nagara, our time with you is precious, very, very precious. Thank you so, so much for being with us today on the Up Close podcast. We hope that maybe you'll return someday and we can talk some more. Thanks for having me, Sarah. It's been a pleasure. Thanks. Thank you for tuning in to Up Close with Sarah Snead. I hope you enjoyed our conversation with Dr. Pedro Nagara. 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All accelerator complex at CERN looks like this. There is a lot going on in this picture, but we'll focus only on the bit that's relevant for the Higgs search. We begin with protons, which are injected into LINAC2, which I have underlined here. The protons get accelerated to 50 MEV, and these are then injected into the booster, where they get accelerated to 1.4 GeV. After this, the protons get sent to the proton synchrotron, which accelerates the protons even more, to 25 GeV. Next, the super proton synchrotron, or SPS, is used to get the protons to 450 GeV. Finally, they get injected into the LHC, where they travel in two different accelerator tubes and directions. At this final step, they get accelerated to up to 70 EV. In this diagram, ALICE, CMS, LHCV, and ATLAS are all detector stations. These are the regions where collision between the two proton beams can happen. It's in these detector stations where discoveries are made. There are typically a bunch of different layers to each of these detector stations, each of which aims to measure the properties of all the particles produced in a given reaction. They are huge facilities, involving collaborations between lots of different people from all over the world. To give you an idea of how big these detectors are, here's CMS, one of the detector stations involved in the Higgs search. Note the worker in the middle. He gives you some idea of the kind of scale for the whole enterprise. Now that you have an idea of the tools used in the Higgs search, we should finish our original story. The LHCs first started running experiments in September 2008. Two of the detector stations on the LHC, ATLAS, and CMS, were focused on the search for the Higgs boson. On July 4, 2012, both collaborations announced that they had strong evidence of a particle that looked like the Higgs boson in the energy region between 125 and 126 GV. In August, they made the announcement official by publishing two papers. These papers, the cumulative work of thousands of people in many nations, provided experimental evidence of the discovery of the Higgs boson and made it possible for Higgs and Engelbert to receive the Nobel Prize in physics in 2013.


In the first part of the show, we're going to focus on the brokerage sector, of course, the challenges and opportunities over there. And for this purpose, let me bring to the show my first guest this evening, Tanka Nanderson, CEO of TickMeal. Good evening and thank you so much for joining us. Good evening, very nice to meet you. Well, I would like to start of course with regulation. It has been more than a year since ESMA cut forest leverage so far. What's the impact on TickMeal's accounting? Of course, when I say ESMA, I would like to specify for our viewers I'm talking about European securities and markets authority. Yes. Well, it's fair to say that we noticed an initial drop in overall volumes when the ESMA leverage came out. Having said that, we've seen a gradual normalization to pre-ESMA levels since then. In fact, this October was the second best month by volume in TickMeal's history. I mean, an interesting point to notice that TickMeal clients have always had the ability to manage their own leverage. So in large part, the impact has been relatively mild. A significant amount of our clients actually use algos. That just required a little bit of tweaking by them to ensure that their trading was uninterrupted by the changes. I mean, there is some anecdotal evidence that the clients are trading for longer time periods now. And this has potentially also led to increased profitability. We've noticed that clients have been happy to deposit additional funds, especially given the FSCS protection that's available and the fact that TickMeal has a strong balance sheet. What we have not done, though, is repaper our European client base. And that's to say, we haven't repapered in other jurisdictions where there may be better leverage conditions. As we see this as a sort of pure regulatory arbitrage, and the risks involved in that are significant. And have you changed something in terms of strategies? As far as strategies go, it's really business as usual. Like I said, will we repaper clients, our European client base? No, we won't. We will keep everything as is. So it really is a cut in leverage. It doesn't affect us. It doesn't affect our clients. That's our belief. On the other side, according to trade stats released exactly by brokers, they actually showed that there are always customers that lose, which is pretty natural. But still, even if it's natural, it's a problem because of course nobody wants to lose. Do you think the broker's business and client should be split between gambler and professional? And do you think that this is plausible? I think first of all, there are a number of variables that we don't see. I mean, for instance, the use of hedging by clients. So the statistics we get and make available may appear to be a little bit skewed. Second, I mean, Tick Mill as a company goes through extreme lengths to ensure its clients are trading investment products in order that they have the opportunity to get the best possible outcome. We believe that all our clients are professional in their approach to investing. And this includes things like the suitability tests to ensure they know exactly what they're investing in, educational material that we provide ensures clients are making educated trading decisions. And current legislation is there to ensure that only serious experienced professional traders are working with Tick Mill. Furthermore, I mean, all traders want the best possible outcomes available. And I think Tick Mill provides that. And it's probably evidenced by the feedback that we get from our clients. And on the other side, are you aiming at geographical expansion? Of course, I'm talking about your services. Yes, we are. You know, we service clients in many countries around the world. And I'd say that Tick Mill is global in nature and in outlook. So yes. And can you share it as where exactly or it's something that you cannot release? No, sure. I mean, we're seeing growth in all areas. But actually probably the most accelerated growth we've seen is in Asia, the MENA region and South America. And while we do do targeted marketing, in actual fact, we actually attract many clients from word of mouth. And this is due mainly to Tick Mill's trading conditions, which are probably some of the best in the industry. Another point that is that Tick Mill's invested heavily in our country managers, as they have the sort of knowledge and unique experience to better understand our clients' needs and act on them much faster than in normal circumstances. And this ultimately leads to better customer service outcomes all around. And talking about geographical expansion, I was also wondering if you thought to expand also your services, I mean to financial consultancy, for example, or this is not in your schedule? I mean, at the moment, our primary goal is to maintain an execution-only-based service. However, we have a significant educational offering, and that allows our clients the ability to get up-to-date trading information, whether it be news or analysis, in order for them to trade in the most effective way. But what we are probably sort of beginning to push through to now is seriously look at other asset classes like equities, futures and options, fund management, in order to provide us a full service offering. Well, that's pretty interesting. I was wondering, what is your opinion on consolidation of the sector, in particular in the United States? Actually, two important brokerage companies in the U.S. merged a little bit more than two weeks ago. I'm talking about TD Ameritrade and Charles Schwab. Can we expect further consolidation in the sector, both in the United States and also here in Europe? And secondly, do you think this is something positive rather than negative? I mean, it's interesting. You mentioned consolidation, and certainly the Ameritrade Charles Schwab was fascinating to see. I think in the U.S. there's certainly room for more consolidation, especially when the fintech operators are now looking to head into this arena and take market share. I mean, probably in the U.K. in our sector, it's probably seen more as a game of attrition. If you've got the right setup, the right conditions, a strong balance sheet, and a loyal client base, you're going to survive generally. I mean, clients have multiple accounts with different providers, and what we're finding is that they'll probably oscillate towards the most solid brokers like Ticknell. This actually impacts the weaker, less competitive brokers, which forces them to consolidate or even actually leave the industry. So that's where we see the market going in this region. So you do not expect this, how can I say, consolidation wave to come also here in Europe? Well, I mean, there is consolidation, but there's also, I guess, attrition by weaker operations, actually just literally leaving the industry. We don't need to go after the smaller fish, basically, because like I said, clients generally have multiple accounts with different brokers. So you lose one broker, but there's still another one to go to. And talking about brokers, what would you advise our viewers? Which are the main requirements to look for a broker? Because certainly this is an important thing to choose the correct broker. Yeah, it's a big question, and all clients should ask similar questions like this. Strong regulation, we're an SCA regulated entity. The SCA is a gold standard, and Ticknell is a firm support strong regulation. A strong balance sheet gives confidence both to clients and to our counterparties. Competitive consistent spreads are always going to reduce cost for clients, competitive execution speed. I mean, we've got many algo traders, and this is a major requirement for them. I mean, there are lots of things that make up the whole like VPS, educational material, and so on and so on. Everything that you need to facilitate effective trading, but probably one of the most important elements, I would say, is customer service. And I mean, what do I mean by this? I mean, effective communication and support from the Ticknell team and possibly the most important element of this is honesty and integrity. This is the ethos by which Ticknell would like to be known. And do you expect any, how can I say, negative or positive impact on Ticknell after the Brexit is going to be done? Well, I'm not sure if Brexit is going to be done. I think we just got a way to see till Friday morning. My personal view, it's going to be a close one. But I do believe the Conservatives will get in. Having said that, and not wanting to hedge myself fully, we've had so many upsets. There's still room for one more. I was asking this because actually Ticknell has been very successful here in Italy. And actually my next question is your general assessment of your work here in Italy and what have you done so far? We've been active in the Italian market since 2015. And we've seen significant growth. I mean, thanks to a real sort of local approach, as I said before, through our sort of regional operators. We've been at Expos in Rimini and Milan in Rome. And we do many online webinars. And that's been a major boost for us. I mean, it's fair to say that last year it's been a bit affected by the ESMA measures. But actually we continue to offer a quality service. And we look to expand our project range to our Italian clients. Because for us, it really is a significant and important market being at the heart of the EU. And that's really where we want to stay. And exactly, you were talking about Expos. Where is the next stop? Where are we going to see you? Well, I mean, the Rimini, Milan, Rome are the ones we've just been in Germany. But in Italy, it will be doing the rounds, for sure. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you, Anderson. See you all. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your opinion. Many thanks indeed. Thank you.