In this episode of Mind Pump the World's number one ranked fitness, health and entertainment podcast We answer fitness and health questions that are asked by listeners and viewers just like you But the way we open the episode is by talking about current events. We'll bring up studies. We have a lot of fun That's the intro portion of this episode. That's 39 minutes long after that we get into the Fitness questions by the way, if you want to see the episode as its time stamp So you can fast forward to your favorite part go to mind pump podcast Dot com so let me give you a breakdown of the episode. We open up by talking about Morning moodiness had a little experience of that with my daughter this morning Can't wait to become the teenager then we talked about bullies our experience with bullies and the potential value of bullies We talked about a show on netflix called my octopus teacher Justin and adam are having a good time watching that. Yeah, a little uncomfortable. I talked about a good website I think is very valuable these days called allsides.com this is where you can Find your news source and see which side it leans towards to see if you're being unbiased with your opinion Then we talked about the bike wars with the workout bike wars peloton amazon apple Who's gonna win our bet is on peloton? Then I talked about a company who just IPOed compass pathways This is a pharmaceutical company that's trying to Produce psychedelic medication legal psychedelic medication for treatment. That's kind of interesting great Justin's super excited because it's a yoga pant season Fall is here. That also means pumpkin spice everything by the way organify which makes amazing organic supplements Now has pumpkin spice flavored Gold juice. This is what you take at night relaxes your body gives you great sleep Tastes amazing mix it with almond milk. It's incredible pumpkin spice is their new flavor By the way, because you listen to mind pump you get 20 off any product from organifi Here's how you get that discount go to organifi.com. That's or g a n i f i Dot com forward slash mind pump get 20 off everything in their store with the code Mind pump then we talked about halloween whether or not that's going to happen or if it's going to be cancelled Adam can't stop us talked about using tea tree oil on his scalp Skelp that's how he says it on a scalp skelp and by the way Dr. Squatch makes incredible products including shampoos that have tea tree oil in them great for dry scalp Due to fungus or bacteria or if you have dandruff all natural no chemicals Smells amazing and uh manly musk you get 20 off all their products because you listen to mind pump Here's what you do go to dr. Squatch. That's d r s q u a t c h Dot com forward slash mind pump use the code mind pump for 20 off And then justin talks about going to the movies in the covet area era Then we got into the fitness questions. Here's the first question that we answered What is contralateral training and who does it benefit? Here's the next question Is alkaline water valuable Is there any applications for water that advertises itself as alkaline? The next question is foam rolling good for recovery? And the final question in our opinion How credible are personal trainers if they're not in the best shape? So the chubby trainers do they have a lot of value? Also, look mind pump produces Workout programs that can can be followed online We have some of the most popular workout programs available anywhere They're called maps fitness products. We have a lot of different maps programs Okay, we have programs for people who like to train like bodybuilders We have programs for beginners people who want to work on their functional mobility A lot of different kinds of programs now. What makes a workout program effective partially is if it's the right program for you What is your current fitness level? What are your goals? What do you want to work on? Follow the right program get great results follow the wrong program Get bad results now all maps programs are written and created by Three trainers with a combined experience training real people of over 60 years. We know what we're doing We're not just celebrity trainers. No, we're real. In fact, we were real trainers Well before we got on social media. So, you know the workouts work Also, all maps programs let you try them out for a full month And within that month if it doesn't do what you think it's supposed to do for you You can get a full refund. So they're risk-free. Okay, if you want to check out all of our maps programs to find out What's best for you? Just go to maps fitness products dot com again. That's maps fitness products dot com scalp it Dude, I had a terrible realization this morning. Hmm. So i'm the oldest of four kids, right? I remember distinctly. Maybe you remember this too adam because you're the oldest of Bunch of kids too. I remember distinctly my sisters going from Sweet and happy most of the time to completely unpredictable and crazy a little bit. Oh, yeah Yeah, I remember I was right around 11 or 12 And it was just like what happened, you know, and I wasn't really old enough to understand my daughter's 11 And the uh, the morning moodiness is just yeah this morning was a good time. Oh, it hasn't even fully set in That's my that's what I'm it's she's just warming up. That's the fear, dude Yeah, like literally it's it yesterday just like cuddly hugging dad. I love you. It's so great this morning You know, she wakes up come downstairs. Oh, hey, honey.  I think my sister my sister and I were pretty inseparable till we were about 12 I think so right right before high school was the main Main divergence, right? So once we hit high school, you guys weren't cool in high school No, we were just so different right so she was even though we're only one year apart I'm sure she'll check me on the dates on this because she like remembers this is like vivid memories for her Right when when we like when I was like, I'm going my own way. Well, we were we're only we're only, uh, You know, we're only about 13 months apart from each other But because she's in december and I'm in early november, uh, she's we're two grades apart from each other But so growing up as kids we played with each other all the time. We were best of friends and then I think junior high, uh When she was in junior high still I was making my way into high school that gap was enough and you know once you get into high school Like I'm too cool to hang out with my little sister And so I probably wasn't hanging out very much with her and then when she gets to high school She literally like resents like every person that I hang out with the type of person I hang out with like she was like anti the athlete and cheerleaders and that was like totally my life So from your perspective she's punk rock. She's the one she was she did my she when my sister went through and all I was like my cousin all blackface, you know saying she went through that Like she was she was like the out of the two of us I would say she was the the bad one in school like I was the goodie goodie kid, right? She was like she was the bad kid and I swear she did that because It was just because she went the opposite direction to me. I I feel I'm sure she'll clear this up I know her.  Oh, I could I could see that maybe a little bit Yeah, like if I had to if I knowing both of you if I had to guess I mean, you know the sweet side because she handles customer service, right?  Yeah, let's say adam. No, I'm sure she likes that But no No, I so my my theory my theory is that that two-year gap Right, so because we were like I said in separate till like 12 Of me getting into high school and becoming too cool, right to hang out with my little sister I think that built up animosity So then when she came into high school was like evaluate like who my brother is who he he hangs out with like The group the clique and then she like identified with the complete opposite, you know Do that now do they still do or clicks still a thing in school? Like they were when because when I was when we were in school You're the one with the high schooler. So you would know better than anybody Yeah, but it's it doesn't seem as strong and but I don't know if it's just my little, you know Slice of my kids school because I remember being in school and they were distinct like the stoners hang out over there Yeah, that's the job kids are in the parking lot. There's the skaters. There's the goth kids and you know It was very very segregated, you know, it was it like that was like that nerds are on the library Yeah, no, it was definitely like I think they're more inclusive now, right? I think that that's like such a there's so much nicer now It's ridiculous. I think it's such I think that's more of a more of a message now that in in school Maybe that's what it is. It's like now. Do you have the inclusive kids over here? Everybody else is over there. Yeah, you know, maybe uh, yeah, do you think there's any benefits to the the meanness? I think there's a little bit of learning No, I just I think that like Like this is preparing you for outside life like people are not always gonna be nice to you Like how do you deal with that? I talk about this with my kids all time because there's like this one kid, uh Ethan my oldest like he's he's had a really hard time with and of course He gets paired with this kid in every class like the last three years. Oh, wow And so you don't have to fight him.  Come on. Yeah I'm trying to do a good job You're gonna have to fight him son. Yeah. Yeah.  Like that's just like human nature You got to figure out how you're gonna be able to deal with this because Uh, you know, some there's something that you're gonna see later on in life as well So it's been tough though because it's I mean he's learned how to deal with it and how to basically Tell him like look, I don't appreciate this and he's like very much more Like in his face about it and then the guy's leaving him alone And so it's been a good learning lesson, but Again, like if if it was if I was another parent, I'd be like in there like no You can't have this kid in class with him My kid shouldn't you know suffer because this kid's being an asshole I feel like sal's more likely to get defensive like that.     He pushes me So he's telling me this and one day he the kid followed him home from school and pushed him down And then he got up and just walked away So I'm like, oh man, I hope I don't regret this but I said, okay, here's here's what maybe you can do this I said next time he's following you Turn around and tell him you're not going to move Say, I'm not going to move don't come near me.  They got in a fight.  They want an easy target Yeah, or you'll get jumped like I did several times or the junior high That worked so well for me. It builds character in high school too, don't you think exactly Toughens you up a little bit gave me a little bit of a reputation So Ethan's has dealt with it then on Justin. Yeah, yeah, this kid's a real You know punk and and it's been it's been a headache for us No, I don't want to do that He's already dealt with him like a few times and had physical Uh interactions with him and and has been able to now get him Completely to leave him alone. No, I'm not there yet. So what's that feeling like is it now? Do you see him like peter teacher parent conference things or yes, and here's the thing There's always a background story, right?  The kid has shitty parents And you know, there's probably abuse there. Of course.  No, that's a he's another winner dad. So that's one we just you know, how's it?  Yeah, it's it's a juggling act because As a parent you nothing will invoke your protective feelings like your kid.   I feel like I mean I I don't know because I'm not I'm not there yet, right? I feel like I would handle it similar to what you did just and I think that No one told me this like I went through that right So I've shared getting bullied and jumped and all that when I was a kid Um for your small calves. Yeah, that's what I'm sure less. No, they matched at that age At that age they matched you know what I'm saying?   Hey, your dad's an alcoholic My dad told me You might get a family This kid starts crying How'd you find out it's just control you have no control at home It makes you feel powerful and you have control when you can exert it somewhere else right right That's where you know, I had one the one of the kids that jumped me in in junior high. I ran into him Like four three four years ago as an adult and he's a pastor And he came up to me at the grocery store. Wow. He walks up to me. He's like, hey Sal, you remember me and I'm like, of course. I remember in my head.  I'm like, no, man. I don't remember you and he's like, hey, man I want to apologize.  I'm really sorry. I did all that and so he must have like Wow, remembering all the way back to junior high. I was a big deal, dude They cornered me in this in the bathroom was like five of them And they all took turns and I was just doing my best to defend myself the whole time Yeah, I remember. Yeah, and then he ends up being a pastor later on ends up becoming a pastor and That's why I think that guilt apologizes to me. Hey Justin.  Yes, we can. What's it called? Is that the the most awkward show on Netflix right now? My octopus teacher. Yes. Yes. Yes. I want to watch that. So what's the deal with that? Well, okay, so Actually, it's it's fascinating in a weird way. Okay, so it it actually gets into Octopus behavior and like how intelligent they are and I think that there's really not a lot of behavioral study around octopuses and so he he went through all the stuff in his life and he made it about like Kind of the drama and stuff that he was experiencing and like when he was a kid he really liked to go diving in Uh, you know these kelp beds and stuff and like he used to do this as a kid And so he remembered that and so he started doing that again And decided to do this like every day and would visit this one specific area every day and saw this octopus and like Kind of befriended it in a weird way. Yeah, but uh, they they had a moment where they actually like Had a connection like the octopus came out of its den And then put its tentacles like on its hand and they kind of connected and then it started to like Would see him and like like swim over to him and like land on his chest and like Hug him and all this like weird stuff. Sounds like weird anime. Oh, dude He's like cephalopod love. It was it was a little weird You know, we watched it because so we were at uh, sanctuary this weekend And which means max is sleeping in the same room as we are and it's like I don't know. He goes to bed at like 7 30 8 o'clock when we're out there and Like it's 8 o'clock at night where it's a weekend and he's in the room with us And you're in that we're in this, you know, they're like little single studios, right on the beach or whatever I'm like, I can't watch tv right now So like build all this thing to like cover the light so we can still try and watch tv and katrina's like You can't watch anything violent or crazy or like, oh my god. What's on tv? That's not any of those things, right? I'm like, uh, so we find that and i'm watching that so it's perfect It's slow.  They're they're all about it. Yeah, the thing that was uh, your point, right? I don't think very many people have taken the time to try and uh, befriend an octopus like this guy did This guy does this for like it took the what justin's talking about I think it took he tracks the days right like I think it's like two three months in of every single day coming down in the same place And letting this octopus like build trust and getting closer and closer to him until Eventually he reaches out and kind of touches him and then and he like loses trust at one point and like He tries to like intervene and save it from like this shark that's trying to eat it and like he's trying to be like You know like an observer and not like inter interfere with like this whole ecosystem and whatnot and But it just got it was it was fascinating But also it's like him saying it and like how he feels about the octopus got real weird Like he started to dream about it and like all this stuff and you're just like, dude, what else? Well, so the yeah the the things that i'm like, okay, so we get sucked in because we're watching this octopus and it's like Kind of fascinating like you don't see anything And he brings up at the very beginning like his relationship with his son and I can't help but think like Because they don't talk about any of that like his it's not about this guy It's all about this octopus when i'm like, dude, this dad, okay He's got a son who looks like anthropomorphizing his son Misplaced misplaced. Yeah, dude totally I mean he's and when you see like the amount of research that goes in this this guy spends all day all night Thinking about this octopus. He's got massive charts on his wall of where it was at this time and like Oh, it's crazy. Oh, yeah, for sure the obsession's real and I feel like no, but like The the person who's you know editing this or filming this like they don't ever ask that question Like what about the rest of your life, dude?  His son's watching the documentary. I know dad messed his weekend with me and he's hanging out With an octopus. That's what I feel like. I want to see the follow-up, right? Well, dude, you know, you we're very complex Humans are very complex and we have this this really strong feelings of empathy actually in fact yesterday. I was watching Puppy videos with my daughter last night before she got moody this morning And we're watching these puppy videos And you can't help when you see a puppy you can't help but think they're extremely adorable When you learn about the theories behind evolution because dogs and humans have worked together For a very very long time and they think that dogs Slowly evolved these puppy features to look cute to us So they evolved to look cute so that we would take care of them. What it's true Think about it. How many animals do you look at in baby form and think they're cute? Not a whole lot. Some of them you do Puppy's got to be at the top other animals and like a spider.  How did we do that? There's a meme with a wolf and it's like, you know, I'll I'll I'll go hang out with those humans next to the fire What's the worst that could happen in the next picture is a pug with like a birthday candle Adam It's in a little like one of those like Lou Vuitton bags. Yeah What's going on now? What's the worst that could happen? You used to be cool Yeah, yesterday. I was also going to walk with the kids and uh, my son has definitely inherited some of my I don't know annoying qualities Or he likes to debate everything.   This is a kind of a turnoff for most people I love doing this with you, but most people are not going to love the set quality of us situations might not want to go with this Well, okay, it's to his He didn't he didn't he doubled down He's too busy trying to argue this point. Yes, exactly. No, no to his credit for getting coachy that. Hey, bro This might get you beat up bro in school Well to his credit, he's open He'll let you go back and forth, but he always has a counterpoint And he does it good even though he may miss some form but he's young right? He's only 15 He has good points that he makes and so we can go back and forth and debate And so what ends up happening sometimes is I'll I could tell that I've got some of his gears turning But instead of being like that's a good point. He hasn't learned that yet instead. He just stops Okay, I don't want to talk about it anymore Kim done here. Yeah, only fun when I went change the subject, you know, what were you guys debate? I mean, what was it get would he oh man, we got into economics We talked about the electoral college And the potential values. I don't want you know bore you guys with the the details But you know, he's making some good points I can see what he's trying to say and so I'm making my points and we're going back and it was literally It was literally an hour Debate about a couple subjects and I could tell jessica was Really trying not to pull her hair out because you can hear it's cool as a parent to see how they think though, right? I love it. Yeah, you get to kind of find out what's like brewing in their mind and see like, you know Where to kind of steer them in the right direction. Oh, dude. And speaking of which there's a great website I just found and I'll recommend this to our audience. It's called allsides.com And if you go there, it literally will rank news sources On their bias. So you can go on there. Look up your favorite news channel, uh, you know, abc nbc Reason magazine, you know Fox whatever and it'll tell you where they rank In terms of their bias and then on the site there's tests that you can take to see what your bias is So it's a great tool because what I think you should do is go on there Look up your news sources that you love to read the most do a self test on your own on yourself And then purposely read the stuff that's on the opposite side Just so you could challenge yourself. Yeah, see this see there it is you could see the The left lean left center lean right and right and where everything is actually center. Yeah, I just feel like Anything said there's nothing. Yeah, that's not doesn't come with a bias Well, so I try to check myself because when I look at this chart to me They put reason magazine in lean right now reason is libertarian. I think that's very center So I try to check myself and think well, is it because I'm because I'm over there more that I think everything's More left or what's the actual deal? Right? Nonetheless use it you can use this to kind of guide you a little bit, but it's really cool because you could type in Uh a site that you're reading articles from and see which direction that they lean and then do your own tests Is that is that so I'm looking at it right that right now So I'm assuming that the so you have the center and then you have the two to the left two to the right Are the two closest to the center considered closest to center? Is that and the the far outsides are the most extreme? Yeah, so on the very left is left Then it goes left lean Then it goes center lean right and then right so on the extreme right It's you know fox news on the extreme left cnn for example, but then in the middle you have Like the hill usa today npr bloomberg You know on the lean right you'll have like market watch on the lean left You'll have abc for example or politico, but it's a it's a really really good way for you to check yourself Market watch is considered a lean, right? I didn't even know that you know I thought it was a little neutral. I but I guess I don't know. I don't I don't I can't recall it I'm gonna make I'm gonna make a comment, but it could be my own bias, but I guess if you speak economic sense You may be lean, right? I mean I don't I mean that may be the case a little bit You know being yeah, well no speaking of marketing. I was just reading market watch this morning Are you guys watching the bike wars right now? What bike? Oh the bike wars work out home. I'm gonna call it. We got we got apple Obviously, we got peloton. Yep. Who else and now amazon so amazon is now throwing their hat in the ring here So we have the and they are going after like the market of 499. So I think five bike under 500 dollars They've partnered up with echelon And which is the maker of the bike and they basically are creating something to rival The peloton bike and it's I mean what five times cheaper than even the newest version of peloton We talked about peloton coming out with a you know, they partnered up with a new manufacturer So they could produce the bike at a I think a 20 percent reduction of what it was last year or whatever Even at that 20 percent reduction It's still five times more expensive than the the amazon bike that's came out for five or now What I don't know because it's so new is you know, I don't know how it compares to it One, I know that smooths the experience right how integrated everything is because that's peloton That's exactly because otherwise you just get an exercise bike. You know what I mean? If it's not going to provide all that so what this tells me is this tells me everything that we've been predicting Which is that the fitness? There's still a huge demand for fitness. It's just shifting. Oh, yeah, and at home workouts Is exploding and now you have all these major brands. They're trying to figure out how to get in on the action Absolutely Yeah, because I think the future of working out is gonna obviously we've talked about this so many times But it's gonna look very different You have amazon and apple big players that usually don't have anything to do with You know with workout equipment. Yeah, and they're entering into the fray Which tells you that they see the and they're not just originally I used to think that peloton was just like a You know, you know soul cycle at home type of deal, right? I really thought it was just a bike But you know the the software offers all kinds of like workout stuff So you can like turn your monitor on your bike like and you can have your little yoga mats aside with your Paradumbells and follow a trainer through a workout a weight routine So that I mean that competes it right with mirror and tonal on the other ones So it's going to be really interesting to see how this all all the how they all shape up as far as who has I even heard whims of like a orange theory trying to get in on that in terms of like having Statistics and things like at home that you could like shoot up to your screen That's interesting because I one of the things I was fascinated by with uh, orange theory when I was there was What a great job they did with tech So even during the time that I was there what four years ago or more? I don't know how long it's been more than four. Yeah when we first started Oh, no, you're right. I was there for the first year that we were still starting this, right? So um, you know, they were already doing things where You know, you were they basically were combining like the the the fit bit fill and the connectivity to the the group And the tracking your score and you could wear it in the class And it would sync up to the tv and see to be able to real-time see your calorie burning stuff And then your zones then you could go outside and go for a hike and be about your day And then it would track all your zones for the day and like I said connect to a community where you can all be Honestly, I feel apple and Peloton are gonna be you know the two juggernauts in this space mainly peloton because they've been doing it the whole time This is their you know wheelhouse, but also apples like secretly Like have had all these patents and all this tech that's been just sitting there waiting to integrate And if you saw that they just launched their their apple watch like the latest version Well, those are like all these sophisticated new sensors they put into it and you know, it's they're gonna have this all all this like Biometric data and all that's going to be on the tv before you know Well, here's my prediction Okay, just like in the gym space The equipment in the gym has far less to do with the success of the gym Than the workouts that are occurring the environment essentially the the feel of the facility would dictate its success way more than the equipment I think whoever wins this competition is not going to be the one With the best bike or the best equipment the best experience the best programming the best workouts That's what's going to win. This is where peloton is crushing Yeah, it's not necessarily that they have the best bikes. It's that they're programming so far because things could change Is the best so apple could go in with the coolest bike or whatever But if you don't have good classes a good feel a good environment Well, I they got a lot of work to do in that direction. I also think they've already done a good job of building community That's the they have a lot of people. Yeah, that's to me. That's the first once people like something right It's really tough to get you to come to something try something else out like if you've been a peloton person since it's since inception And they've just continued to upgrade and get better and get better and get better and you're a part of that community like Getting you to switch over to something just because it's you know cheaper. I don't see that happening I mean, I definitely think there's going to be uh, like many things I think they'll they'll all get a market share and you're going to have this Obviously, they're they're going after different demographics, right? I mean you have a bike that's 2,500 to 3,000 dollars was a bike. That's 500 dollars. I mean you're the type of person that is going to be able to It's pretty crazy with their charger for a bike. Yeah, and then you and then you have a monthly membership on top of that You know, here's the person that okay, so I don't know. This is my prediction. I could totally be wrong Right. I think the person going for the cheaper bike probably will end up going with a Stationary bike and some kind of free Programming on tv without needing to get the expensive integrated bike people who want the integrated bike We'll go with the experience the one that really wins, which would be at this point peloton Peloton is you know, it's building speaking of companies Compass pathways went public. So all right. This was the company that I know It's some big investors They're a pharmaceutical company who have a potential psilocybin like magic mushroom Drug that could get past and right now was in trials So they went public. Of course, they're exploding because there's a lot of excitement around, you know, this kind of therapy But it's the first pharma company. I think that potentially could be using Psychedelics to treat legally to treat, uh, you know depression PTSD and other psychiatric exciting man. This is very exciting I think that uh psychedelics from what I've seen with the studies Have so much potential to completely transform How some of these people get you see berkley they uh, I don't know if it's decriminalizer They made it somewhat legal to to be able to start treating uh patients with with psilocybin Yeah, it's just decriminalized. Yeah, right. It's not legal. No, but compass pathways has a a actual drug that has that can be approved So it's not you're just feeding people mushrooms, but rather standardized You know meeting the standards, I guess Now, do you see them as like kind of like gw as far as like they're the are they the are they the leaders in this category? Like they are the leaders. Um, they just went ipo and they've so far done. Well, um, they don't have any products on market So it's still a risky Investment, but I think the excitement is what's going to drive it at first But if they get a drug to pass to get if it gets fast-tracked the way that cannabinoid medications did Um, you're going to see some exciting stuff and because again the research looks crazy You know people with resistant treatment, uh, excuse me treatment resistant depression Which historically is like there's nothing we can do Some of these studies are showing some remarkable things with psychedelic research in combination with therapy So this could be a breakthrough. You know what else is exciting.   What is it? It's their gold Oh, we gotta figure out how to froth that into my latte Dude, it's already I bet you can and I'm sure it tastes amazing So gold is already like one of my favorite tasting ones that they have and so now you throw a pumpkin spice in there. Look out Oh, I love you guys big fans of the pumpkin spice. I do like it secretly. Yeah Yeah, not so much anymore of it. I I really what's gonna happen with halloween this year Are they gonna not probably no trick-or-treating right? Well, well, that was the thing I guess there was this big debate on that where they were making a hard stance of like We're just canceling halloween. I think this is like an la and then people pushed back really hard and so I think it's I think it's still happening, but it's uh, you know, everybody's discretion Of course, it's gonna happen. Yeah, it's like you can't stop. Look at the beaches Yeah, every time I every time I get online like I check before I go down to the beach.  Do you think it's far from closed You think parents are gonna a lot of parents are gonna take their kids around to houses I think it'll be I think it'll be a lot less. I think it's gonna be a lot. Yeah, I think it'll be a lot It'll be different. They'll probably put the candy out, you know on the uh, sidewalk or something and do that whole thing I don't know what it's gonna look like. I just know well if you're a thorough candy for my door This is where masks actually make sense. So Oh, yeah Yeah, so Well, with my daughter we said look if it's not happening then why don't you have a couple friends come over You guys will dress up anyway. Yeah, we'll watch scary movies together Well, it's it's funny, too And I wasn't gonna well so my kids decided to pick their own costumes this year And it was very much a sign of the times and you know apocalyptic looking like so One of my kids you decided to be like a plague doctor. Yeah All the beak masks. Yeah.    But like so I'm gonna have to shred it and like make it work Wait, it fits your cakes, but not the upper body. Yeah, that's weird. Well, you mean this way, right? It's not tall enough. Yeah, no, it's not wide enough. Oh really? Yeah, that is weird Yeah, because normally it's the cakes that don't fit for you.  Didn't come in that. That's hilarious. No. Yeah, so how did that? Adam, I know you you you we're gonna test out the the tea tree shampoo for scowl. Oh, no, actually I got No, I've been using uh doctor squash for a while and recently I got a I got a dm So somebody ever since I've been shaving my head, right? I get it's funny I get all these bald guys that like can message me now. It's like this was never Best for your head skin. How do you cope with it? No, you know totally like I so I don't want to tease right?  And this and that like no, there's a lot of that I I didn't realize how much uh, I mean we should know right look over the marketing. Did you bury your hair? Yeah, I know like I like It's a it's a major it's a major insecurity for a lot of men and then Now where I understood and I think I've shared this on the show before like What kept me from shaving it a long time ago was my psoriasis, right?   There's an a scalpin I know how I can spell it I'm a ticket skipper. I'm sorry So it sounds like it sounds like you said s you call it. You call my my lisp out right now So anyways, I uh, yeah, I'm talking to somebody in in my dm and he says, you know I uh, I have really dry skin. What have you done about that? And so Dr. Squatch has a a shampoo that has tea tree oil So I used to get like the they I used to get this brand that was just like pure tea tree oil and use it on that And it it does wonders for my head and I know and maybe sal you know the like science better than I do on this But I know that it's supposed to be great for like bacteria fungus dry skin. Yeah, so all those things Yeah, so a lot of people who have like dandruff. It's because they get this reoccurring kind of fungal Infection on the scalp. So tea tree oil is a good natural It's a natural alternative to like the chemical based, you know, and it's and it's normally a little expensive So I mean so somebody who's if you if you have this issue and you're like, oh my god This is expensive. Well, it's because it has that in that like if you were to buy tea tree oil by itself It's expensive. So if you have shampoo that has that's its base It's normally going to be I've been used to paying a higher price for that for a very long time Does it feel tingly? Do you feel like like the fresh? No, it doesn't no, it doesn't do like that weird tink, which all that stuff is fake Isn't that just a gimmick? Yeah, it's fake. It's like toothpaste bro. Things are happening.  You know what I'm saying?  Is that why Is that why after shave burns? Do you think they do that on purpose? Sure to make you feel like it's alcohol in it, right? Yeah, but why though? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know about that about aftershave I know that about toothpaste. I know that about tingly hair stuff like that stuff is all that is it doesn't make a difference Like that's not I don't know that. Yeah, it's not making any you should know that I had no idea about the tingly on the scowl I think you're the first guy I've ever seen put like baking soda on his toothpaste Brushes teal baking.  Yeah that'll that'll does the black teeth Uh, no, not when you wash it out.  Yeah.  Yeah You know what and it's it's only like certain locations.  Have you guys seen any of the previews for this or anything?  Like it's not what I need right now You know I'm in there with other people But I mean the action was really cool and interesting and all this stuff Christopher Nolan the guy that did like inception. Oh, I was like, oh, of course.  Did you have did they have to separate people?  Yeah, how what what capacity was it filled? It was like 20% So yeah, so they had like taped off rows and then If you go in there with a party like you just kind of stay with with you know the you know the party So it was like three of us But yeah, there was there was like clusters of people to spread out. You have to wear a mask while you watch the movie and the whole thing No, no, we was Blast because they say yeah, I mean they they check easier coming in but you know, yeah And then how you can eat your snacks exactly. Yeah, you gotta take your mask off But the the bar wasn't there anymore and that was a bummer So it wasn't quite the whole reason why you go in the first place exactly First question is from h&s mama snye What is contralateral training and who does it benefit? Oh a contralateral training So this would be and correct me if i'm wrong fellas, but essentially you are You're like a vulgarian split stat squat or a lunge would be considered opposite arm opposite late direction. Yeah Walking walking is kind of like a bird dog. Yeah, basically like we're working like from one side to the other Yeah, and essentially one side is working one set of muscle groups with one recruitment pattern The other side is working would be considered maybe opposing muscle groups or opposing recruitment patterns Why does this benefit people? Well, because we do a lot of things this way in a real life Every time you take a step every time you Step up something or you grab something very rarely is your whole body moving Together the same way, you know your arm swings forward the other one tends to swing back You step forward one leg tends to be behind and so it strengthens these kind of functional patterns I also like this kind of training because it tends to highlight imbalances In me so like if I did a lunge I always I can tend to see Or feel one side being better in one position Then the other for example my right leg forward might feel stronger more stable than when my Left leg is forward and that can tell me a lot about areas. I need to focus on Yeah, I like using like crawling patterns for this a lot and I know it's Not a lot of trainers utilize crawling patterns or like even get into these types of positions with bird dog And these types of things but it's information It's really like helpful information for me to see where the disconnect is especially when there's a problem with You know something with their walking running like anything with their gait Being able to stabilize properly and also have that communication Firmly established from right to left left to right Is definitely beneficial when you get into functional movement. Well, I was gonna say control training is extremely functional It's we crawl we walk we throw You swing something you do I mean all these it requires you to be able to do that for One side to communicate to the other side and it also has a Anti-rotational and rotational component to it many times So the the functionality of training this way. I think it's extremely important for you know potential You know injury prevention for just being better at everything that we do So I always so bird dogs were like a a staple movement like I didn't do crawling patterns as much as a trainer I didn't I didn't get into like animal flow type stuff till later on or even curious about that stuff But I see the value of it now. So like when I see somebody who does train that or teach clients that I think it's got tremendous value to show people how to do that But it belongs in it somewhat belongs in every routine, right? I think and there's examples that a walking lunge would be that also, right? So there's there's more basic exercises that people are familiar with That are already in your routine. Yeah, I think too. I mean like people don't really consider coordination as much And I know we want to build and develop our muscles and we want to lose body fat and all that kind of stuff But you know, there's a lot of value with having like full control over your body and getting it to do what you want to do On command and you know, that requires a lot of this dexterity and you know, like Coordination and so to be able to kind of focus on that for a bit Like even if it's just in the very beginning when you're training somebody new like how to better Understand their body and like they didn't really, you know They weren't exposed to that like when they're younger or whatever and we could still re-establish that I think it's very valuable Yeah, and especially if it if it corrects imbalances or movement pattern issues in you Then it's going to help you develop a more aesthetic physique You know a lot of people when we think of aesthetics We tend to think about what bodybuilders will consider aesthetic or what Magazine covers will consider aesthetic but really the the root of good aesthetics at least real Life good aesthetics comes from balance right comes from the fact that I'm moving with good balance My muscles balance each other out one area is an overpowering Another area and so this kind of training besides making you move better can actually contribute to having a physique That looks more aesthetic and balanced and here's a good example of the opposite of that right? We all know the The the musculary developed individual that doesn't seem very aesthetic. Although they have big muscles They move around and they seem muscle bound or clumsy and so it reduces the aesthetic appeal of this person Maps performance is one of our programs where you'll find Controlateral type training you'll find This kind of functional based training whose side effect oftentimes is an improvement in aesthetics In fact a lot of the like the gym focused people who've gotten the program like maps performance will comment and say I expected to move better. I did not expect to look better But now that I move better my body's starting to look better. It's because it does a good job of identifying some of those weaknesses And imbalances in the body, you know speaking of a of an activity like bird dog bird dog isn't some great Muscle building exercise, but could it contribute to exercises that are better at muscle building and make them more effective? Absolutely. That's the way you got to look at some of these exercises. Yes, there are exercises that are just the best You know muscle building strength building exercises But are there other movements that can unlock the potential of those exercises? And make them more effective because it really doesn't matter if the squat Is a phenomenal muscle building exercise if your body is incapable of unlocking The the full potential of a squat now it doesn't matter that a squat is a great exercise for you It's not because you have problems with movement Controlateral training is one tool and the tool about that helps unlock It's part of that mobility application it's part of mobility it's part of Improving activation of muscles as part of getting you to move better And when you move better you can train better and when you train better you look a lot better Next question is from kairos captures Are alkaline and ph water another processed item on the market or are they worth the money? here's a great example of taking Maybe some applications of alkaline water and saying there may be some benefit And then just you know doing it across the board bastardizing it which is yeah, so okay So alkaline $5 bottle of water right so water has I think normal waters ph levels like eight Or 8.5 or something like that and something that's alkaline is over that and oftentimes the way that they improve its alkaline You know the alkaline quality of water is by adding certain Buffering minerals to the water. So now, you know Water is a little bit more alkaline meaning it will counteract some acidity In the body. What are the percent potential applications? Well, I guess if you have Acid reflux issues, maybe it might help a little bit in which case I'd say Eat a tums or a rolates, which is way more alkaline. It'll solve that that issue a little bit better Just eat, you know, like non inflammatory foods. Yeah. Now, is it going to change the alkaline Of the the measurements of your body probably not your body Maintains its pH balance pretty damn good. That's how I thought they dispelled this right I thought they did because that's how the true way to test this works is to drink this stuff and then like take a Take a piss test, right? Isn't that how they would measure and like see if it's actually changing it Yeah, your your body is very very good at maintaining a certain pH level because if it goes a little bit outside of that Even if it goes too alkaline or too acidic It's not good. It can become quite dangerous. What you might get is a little bit more alkaline in your gut Just like, you know eating a calcium or magnesium product like tums or or rolates Otherwise, well, just just regular spring water like isn't it too like most people that and I know in my case specifically like I'm not producing acid when I should be producing acid and so that's really the biggest problem that I've been facing and and so it'll show up in you know at night or Inopportune times where I'm needing to digest food and it's it's training that to You know my body to to really get that response while I'm eating the food. Yeah, and I mean here's here's the other side of it, right? if you drink water that is devoid of minerals And that's all you drink you could cause electrolyte balance like distilled Yeah distilled would be the worst right if you just drink distilled water you could cause problems right because you're you're you're You're flushing out or caught. Excuse me causing imbalances with electrolytes. So just regular mineralized Spring water tap water, believe it or not is fine ph water You're spending more money for something that Does nothing for it and what if you're what if you're not producing enough acid and you throw more alkaline You can actually make the problems. Yeah, I guess that's what I was getting at Yeah, you could make the problem even worse and this is what marketers do they'll take Something that everybody knows they need more of like water and they'll say how can we Inexpensive, you know in a very inexpensive way make it seem more valuable to buy our water So they'll say our waters ph balance is high what they do they add it a little bit of You know magnesium to it or something interesting to you guys like I want Doug Do you have any idea you're old you have this you probably should have a better idea Do you remember when water would no, I mean invented.  And so this has to be like a multi-billion dollar industry now that didn't even exist like 20 years ago Oh at the time I can remember when it first came on the market and I go. Why would I pay for water?  Yes, right. We gotta start bottling up air Bro space balls remember in space. Yes. I know they're gonna be you're gonna buy a can of air. Yeah Oh, I did buy a can of air. I think that's brilliant. That's totally like the next move Yeah, they're on to something. Yeah, no, it's you know, it's you know It's funny too is that bottled water is one of the the largest contributors to waste Because of all the plastic bottles. So people are like, this is good, you know Tell me whatever you've got all these plastic bottles that we're dumping into You know those islands of plastic.  Yeah Next question is from land 3ma Is foam rolling good for recovery and can it help you recover faster? Sure. Yeah, I love it for this This is so they do studies on massage So that that would that's where you're gonna find the studies that'll that'll point to this the best and say, okay It is massage help with recovery It's hard to measure that because there's perceived pain in which case massage helps because you feel like you're less sore Is it actually speeding up recovery? I don't know. I think it can but not because it's it's the foam rolling or massage itself is reducing The inflammation or making the recovery faster. I think the fact that you feel less pain Now you move more and that is what I think facilitates. Oh, that's an interesting theory. Yeah, because I know I know if you just sit still You're not going to recover as fast as you I could see that from being restrictive like after a workout Like I feel tighter like and you're less likely to Get that circulation that really is the part of the recovery process But yeah, I don't know like it it'd be interesting to see if you could like manually manipulate Uh, I don't know. Well, you could test that the way you would test that is you would actually you would massage a group of people And then they would lay in bed and do nothing Right and then you would massage another group of people and they would go about their day And then you would not massage somebody that's and so all of them would need to be really sore, right? So the goal would be You know over train over reach get everybody like really sore legs, right real easy doing that with squats or something Right, so you get everybody really sore you have one group that Gets massaged and then goes about their day So they keep moving around you have one group that gets massaged Lays in bed doesn't do anything and then you have another group who doesn't do either one of them Right, and then you measure to see what the recovery process what their performance Yeah, you know the more I think about it I think Sal your theory makes a lot of sense like it's it's probably less to do with the actual massage itself because I mean it's somebody who used to get massages all the time.   I think stretching would do the same thing Stretching gets me to move trigger sessions. I think you're moving you feel less pain you move more that Facilitates recovery staying in bed not moving due to whatever reason whether it's because you're being lazy or because you're too sore slows down recovery it blunts the adaptation Signal that blunts the muscle building signal because you're not moving like if you got really really sore And then did not move at all You you might recover But you're not going to build any more muscle because the signal you're sending from not moving is going to probably overpower The workout that you just did, you know if I hammered my legs on monday didn't move till the next monday I guarantee I wouldn't get stronger. I probably get what is it called? Is it raking or raking the the the most rakey? Yeah, the most aggressive intervention that people do and they get all bruised rulfing rulfing. Thank you No rakey is uh, it's like energy In fact, they don't touch you. I went to the wrong guy. Yeah I was wondering why this is all like, you know, it's got weird touch me. Yeah Don't you get to put gloves on? Yeah When does the pain start guys? Hey mocks. I can't keep my hands off of them Ha ha ha Next question is from petro julie in your opinion How credible is a personal trainer if they're not in their best shape at the moment? Yeah, and they're best shape. That's a high. Yeah, that's a high standard, right? You know working with a lot of trainers, uh, I'll tell you the okay if you're really out of shape It'll probably hurt your business Of course Yeah, because people are going to look at you and judge your ability to train them business card Yeah, but look some of the most successful trainers ever actually all the successful trainers I've ever had the most successful ones None of them were the most ripped Fit-looking trainers. They definitely worked out and they took care of themselves No, because what comes with that is obsession and those people and that I think it's it's It's rare But if you can find somebody who can keep themselves in extremely good shape and then also has Tremendous amount of humility around it I think that's a really dangerous combination as far as they'll be very probably successful But many times when we see a trainer who's absolutely jacked They're still dealing with insecurities that drove them in that direction to be that way And so they tend to be more cocky more arrogant. They're less relatable And so it doesn't actually translate into more trainer sales as it is So having a nice balance, right? So if you've got a Definitely a physique that someone looks like goes like oh he or she works out They look great or what like that, but maybe not so crazy that it's intimidating I think that's probably the sweet spot for like as far if we're talking about like business wise for a trainer And that was it aria He's like the only one I've met that is like has like an insane o physique, but it's still relatable nice Yeah, it's the relatable part. Yeah, that's a hard. It's a hard combo I mean, how do you relay even I had challenges relating some and initially when I first became a trainer because I I assumed That people hired me and were ready to jump into it with the fanaticism that I had And it took me a second to figure out that most people don't want to work out all time They don't love it so much that they'll do it all time I have to figure out how to relate to them and they have to you know to in order to communicate to them How to make this a part of their life one. I remember one time I I Took a trainer or took a member off the floor and recruited them as a trainer It was a member who lost 50 pounds coming to the gym initially worked with the trainer Worked out on their own by no means that they lose the 50 pounds and look like some, you know super ripped person They lost 50 pounds and looked Normal and relatively healthy.  I think you have to have a balance. I mean I I've talked a long It's been a long time. I've brought this up on the show But there was a time I think it was like I was on year five or six as a fitness manager And up into that point, uh, I just assumed that that had to be mandatory like I can't hire a trainer who's not fit They need to be at like they need to be really fit for most people that that For me to even consider hiring him that originally And then I thought you know what like after I've been training trainers for such a long time And then he met me Maybe maybe you were like no, I'm just kidding You were a fan.  So that you were still fit. Yeah, so No, I'm talking players on top. I'm talking about I I actually went to like an extreme level I I hired somebody that the average person wouldn't think worked out at all But they had they dropped a good 30 30 plus pounds themselves. They had a good story on the journey They were they had uh, they had experience, uh, is with, um, their their education They had a kinesis degree. They had got a national certification. So they had a good education level They had experience losing weight, but definitely did not look the part And so I went on this kick of like hiring some trainers that were like this to see how they would do And being completely, uh, uh, transparent they didn't do very well They had a hard time. They struggled with that because Many people are very judgmental right and a lot of people right away if they want to Change their physique, they want to be inspired by the person that that's coaching them But to a point they don't need to be so crazy ridiculous They just need to be better than the person that's hiring them that that's a challenge Right if you're somebody who's like 20 pounds overweight and your trainer is 30 pounds overweight It's really tough for you to get inspired by them Even if they've already had a big journey they lost it and that's not to say I don't want to discourage somebody who's in that situation that's having success There's always exceptions as a rule. I've seen I've seen fat trainers do really really well If you got a mouthpiece on you you're likable there you can overcome any of that But there's there is a point that I think it it matters for a trainer to have an easier time being successful That looking relatively fit I think is important But also not being so so fit that you're not relatable because I think there's a part of people that Want to see something that's actually kind of attainable too. Like if you see someone who looks like a cover model Sometimes people just write it off like I'll never look like that girl or that guy And also I also look the most successful trainers I've ever worked with had the right attitudes They really had a passion for health and fitness now the side effect of that usually means that they're pretty fit because They believe what they're preaching, right? So I don't know if it's necessarily except for the extremes the fact that they looked fit that attract the clients I think it's more that they actually believed in what they talked about And the side effect of that being that they lived that lifestyle as well And that's what made them successful trainers. Well, it's really it's the passion And it the thing is regardless of what they look like if you can see like how much they're trying They've tried to improve themselves and like how passionate they are about fitness You know, that's going to come across and so like Unfortunately, you're going to see that with some trainers that really don't put a lot of attention into themselves And they don't take themselves that seriously that's going to come across to to the client And so you just got to check yourself on that are you You yourself trying your best to you know present yourself in a certain way the consumer sometimes too is like they don't know what the hell they're looking at Like I've had trainers that don't look super fit like they're not ripped.  That's you know super ripped They care about the other aspects of health and fitness and until you meet that trainer get to talk to them You may not know that so I would caution consumers And that's a good point because then you look at the opposite like a consumer who doesn't know any better May look at someone who's shredded and think oh, that's a good trainer not realizing that that person has Bad relationship with food They severely restrict themselves or they binge when a show is over That they have zero balance in their lives or fanatics to the point where it's unhealthy And so looking at them be like that person understands How to help me develop a lifelong relationship with with fitness and health when in reality that person doesn't even know How to do it for themselves let alone do it for another client and some and I've seen those trainers And I've seen the way that they train their clients and it's like they the way they train themselves Here's your meal plan. Follow this stick to it.  Oh, here's how you're gonna restrict your your water because you're going on to the beach And I'm like, what are you teaching your client? This is not the way to terrible to you know produce success with people Look mind pump is recorded on videos as well as audio come check us out on youtube mind pump podcast You can also find all of us on instagram You can find dug the producer at mind pump dug You can find justin everyone's favorite at mind pump. Justin You can find me at mind pump sal and adam at mind pump adam It's not always more is better and I think that's the the message that everybody's always heard about burning body fat is like You know, you can't do enough and you know, that's just not true once you do an inventory of all the stress You're already accumulating. No, look at your strength You know, look maps at a ball like which I said was for people who have some experience You can do that program two days a week two days a week, but


Hello, my name is Michael North. We're here at the studios of Think Tech Hawaii in beautiful downtown Honolulu. And we're taking up the theme of the art of thinking smart. I'm the guest host this week sitting in for David Chang. And we have the idea of the art of thinking smart is we get occupied with thinking big and thinking fast. But there's a much better way that can avoid some mistakes, which is thinking smart. So thinking around a corner, thinking two or three or five or ten steps ahead in the chessboard, even thinking beyond the notion of a chessboard. And we try to translate the insights of noted thought leaders into business insights that can be useful to people who watch the show. So today we have a really special guest, a young lady named Elizabeth Saturas. She has several very smart decades behind her and she'll be sharing some of her ideas. She is what you would call an evolution biologist who applies the principles of living systems to economic systems. And to financial market and trading systems and to people systems. What do we learn from the history of four billion years of life on this planet that has created intricate and beautiful designs? What do we learn from that that can be applied in our daily life? So it's a science and it's an art. And I like to begin this program with a graphic. Can we throw up that globe graphic? Because we're here in the center of the Pacific, isn't this an interesting picture? These are two views of the earth, 180 degrees separated. The one on the left shows the Pacific with Hawaii in the center. So you have North America on the edge at the right and Asia and Pacific at the far edge on the left. And the entire planet is water, is the Pacific Ocean. And Hawaii is in the geographic center of that. The whole rest of human civilization is on the right-hand side. Everybody else is grouped over on that side. Maybe the planet should roll over or something. We find it interesting that we're here and we're developing insights that are unique to this place and time where we are. And there's a reason why Elizabeth who is a world traveler and of European origins and has lived all over the world in her lifetime and could live anywhere. There's a reason why Elizabeth Satoris elected to come about two years ago and take up permanent residence in Hawaii. So maybe you can share with us a little bit about, you know, why are you here in the larger sense of the word? Well, I love that graphic, Michael. And you know, we're sitting on the top of the highest mountains in the world right now if you count them from the base of solid matter under that big ocean. And furthermore, we're sitting right in the middle of the biggest tectonic plate on the planet. So we're not going anywhere. We're not subject to earthquakes and things like that. And if we lose our beaches who see level rise, why we can always spit out a little extra lava and make our islands bigger again. So we may be in the most stable place on the planet. And also, we are such a bridge between east and west. And as you said, I'm a planet person and I look at four billion years of evolution. And once I recognize that nature has been doing economics forever. I mean, what is economics but the acquisition of resources, their transformation into useful products and services and you exchange those. And consume them. And in nature's case, recycle them always 100% in our case. Whoops, we've developed a linear economy in which we toss things out at the end and that's gotten us into a lot of trouble. So you talked about not thinking necessarily big but smart. And I'm saying in order to get smart, I think you have to think even bigger than we've been thinking into that planetary level into seeing what our race to build this incredible technological and consumer society has done to our planet and whether that was so smart. So if we just produce and produce and we don't bring back, we don't recycle, then we create a kind of entropy that is very difficult to escape from. You know, I was in China in 1973 when they had a 100% recycling economy and people were even paid for their bucket of night soil in the morning with pennies from our perspective just to show people that all waste has value. And if there was any toxic waste in industry that they didn't know yet how to recycle into something useful, there'd be a national contest among workers, figure it out. So I think that got lost as they got into the market economy but it's coming back now. It's coming back all over the world. The cradle to cradle economics.  And that's the way you can ensure your survival is to make sure that you're not making needless things. You know, we've long had ostentatious consumption by elites on the planet and then somebody figured out maybe we can extend that market to everybody and get them all consuming. And it's caused a lot of problems to go beyond our needs into so many things we don't need. So here's a question. How do we change direction?  How do we change direction on something like that? Actually, we are changing direction. We're already doing it because what I discovered about evolution was that the Darwinian concept of a competitive struggle in scarcity which was adopted by all our economists and that sadly is only part of what goes on actually in nature because there's a maturation cycle in which youthful species develop growth economies. They're acquisitive, they hog territory, they make things, they compete with each other, and then there comes a tipping point where it's too energy-expensive to maintain the hostilities that are generated by that model.  You couldn't keep growing all your life. So nature has done this over and over and over to get to this maturation point where you shift from the Darwinian competition into the cooperation, the community. And now finally, evolution biologists like David Sloan Wilson in his book, Does Altruism Exist, has showed very clearly that selection is not just for individuals in competition but for groups. And the groups that went out are the ones with the most internal cooperation. So cooperation ends up being even more important than competition and if the businesses divide up the pie into the different things that are needed and then feed each other, there's lots of places like Kallundberg in Sweden where companies, the waste of one company becomes product input for another. We have examples of corporations that have taken their own wastes and made new products out of them. So there will always be some elements of competition that appear to be Darwinian in their mechanics. But coexisting with cooperation and cooperation. Yes, friendly competition. I think of Buckminster Fuller as one who did the research into the fundamental design principles of the universe and came up with the conclusion that we are designed to survive. We are designed to thrive and prosper. I know you probably knew Bucky. You probably knew Bucky and you know his work. Yes, very much so. And I wanted to point out that two weeks ago we were together at Chaminade University here in Honolulu where you're a professor and you helped to arrange a quite unique event that was host to a number of delegates from China who came here for a celebration of a special event. And we chose the theme of business ethics as the foundation for peace in the 21st century. And because everybody wanted to speak and everybody spoke a little bit longer and we only had four hours for this seminar, you were to be the final speaker who brought it all home for us and we didn't have a chance to hear it from you. So I know this video is going to be shared with those people in China and with everyone from here who was at that event and there were some really stellar people including Calvin Sey, the speaker emeritus of the Hawaii House of Representatives and a number of other really important leaders here and we were looking forward to hearing your comments on business ethics defining what they are and the necessity for a conscious adoption of an ethical set of principles. Could you give us that summation that you were so ready to give? Yes, well, if you look at mature natural systems whether they are rainforests, prairies, or coral reefs, or human bodies you see that there's a great deal of ethics going on in the economy of the system. For instance, in your body you have 100 trillion cells each of which is as complex as a large human city with 30,000 recycling centers renewing your proteins 24-7 and 1,000 banks giving out free money and no cell is unemployed among those 100 trillion cells. If there's an injury to any part of the system, the body, immediately aid goes there and there's no complaint from the others.  All of it is working in diversity within this wonderful unity that's the whole body which also includes 10 times 100 trillion gut bacteria that are your first line of defense against anything you throw into your system through the mouth and run 80% of your immune system. So the brain is more like an information clearinghouse. It's not a dictatorship. Every organ has to meet its needs. Every cell has to meet its needs. Every system in the body has to meet its needs. And the constant negotiations among all of those to weave harmony among the different needs at the different levels is the most ethical system I have ever seen. So that's what I would bring into business ethics is to run the system so that it works for everyone. And that doesn't mean everyone's doing the same thing or consuming at the same level or consuming the same things or being paid the same amount. Because when the money is free as in the body system you don't have this competition for money going on. So maybe that's one of the things we should think about. Let's put a bookmark there and we'll take a break for a moment here with the program. Thank you. Thank you. Aloha. My name is John Waihe. And I used to be a part of all the things that you might be angry at. I served in government here and may have made decisions that affects you. So I want to invite you in. I want to invite you in to Talk Story with me and some very special guests every other Monday here at Talk Story with John Waihe. Come on in, join us, express your opinion, learn more about your state, and then do something about it. Aloha. So Elizabeth, ethics. You know, the conventional definition of ethics is an ingrained sense of right and wrong, of transparency, of honesty, of truth, of integrity. Yes. Right? And what you appear to be saying is that biological systems, if they're allowed to operate according to their natural energy economy, are automatically ethical. If they're mature. If they're mature. Yes. So how do we run our companies with that kind of ecological awareness in mind? How can we, you know, that the standard management model is a pyramid? There's another model which is a set of concentric circles. There's another network management kind of model. And we know what the experts have been teaching us about how to effectively manage companies. I have a feeling that you have a little bit different take on the appropriate organic model. Yeah. Well, I used to do a lot of workshops with businesses on how to transform from mechanism to organism because that pyramid model you're talking about is like an engineering diagram with the control center at the top and then the managers and the workers and so on. And then you go out into the stakeholders beyond the shareholders and ultimately the whole world. Tachi Kyuchi, who used to be CEO of Mitsubishi America, has a seven-step model for transforming a business from the shareholder model to the stakeholder model or however you want to put that. That name, Takayuchi, could you spell that? Tachi, T-A-C-H-I, Takashi actually, T-A-K-S-H-I. Kyuchi, K-I-U-C-H-I. Takashi Kyuchi. Seven steps. If you Google the seven steps, you will find that. He also wrote a book with, was it Bill McKibbin or the other Bill Shierman? Bill Shierman, sorry, called What We Learned in the Rainforest where they parachuted into rainforests all over the world and came out saying, no problem ever faced by a business has not been faced and solved in a rainforest. So it's a very interesting book because then they go through case studies and show how to apply these lessons from nature. Yeah, you know, we have used nature as though it's a set of resources for our human economic system to grind up into products and make wonderful things, but we have not fit ourselves into the ecology of Earth and that's what we have to do now. We have to build an economy that doesn't harm the ecology and that's to me an ecology which literally means the wise society from Ecos, the household of the economy. It's an economy, an ecology, an ecology and Sophia for wisdom. So that is the wisdom of the future. The planet is getting hotter. We're facing climate change. Our coastlines are going to be massively altered. We may have to move uphill. Note that our shipping ports and our airports in 13 of the largest 20 cities in the world at sea level that all of this is going to involve massive redesign. And China is incredible right now. They were building a green city in Dongtang City in Shanghai Harbor on a landfill island and they got it even though they had a huge investment in it that that was not smart at this time in climate change and are doing this kind of green city building uphill now. Moving back through China when we were at Shamanat, we were studying or we were understanding one particular Chinese economist, political leader, philosopher, Zhou Enlai, really extraordinary figure of the whole 20th century. And maybe you can make a little comment on your experience of Zhou Enlai because we have the sense in America that China was an emerging economy. They were a third world country for a long time. Then they were an emerging economy. Now they're a first world economy right alongside America, but they still have a lot to learn. Yes. Right? And Zhou Enlai was showing the many things that China has to teach America and the rest of the world. Just a few words about that would be great. Yes. Zhou Enlai was still technically premier when I was there in 1973 and knew of my presence in China and arranged a meeting for me personally with three Central Committee members. And I was most impressed with the kinds of questions they asked me about my own work and with the way that they talked about their own society. And Zhou Enlai was the peace ambassador. He was allowing kids who had roots in other cultures to travel there to be more international, which was unheard of at the time. And the West didn't know things like that were going on in China. And everything there at that time was about empowering ordinary people and bringing everybody, like the cells in your body, into the economy. And so you could call it a love economy even. You know, it's not out of the question to talk about it that way as you do in your project, making the film in the footsteps of Zhou Enlai. So China was, for all the horrors and even Mao said, you know, the tree would prefer calm, but the wind will not subside. When you unleash a cultural revolution, people are going to take up power because they haven't been trained for that cooperative mode yet. And it's going to end up being a mess and also doing some excellent things that, like having young people go into low-level service jobs before they're allowed to go into higher education to make sure that they would then use that education to bring it back into their culture. And a lot of nature was destroyed in this massive push to build an industrial society quickly. But now the Chinese can turn things around like no other country, as you know, and they're getting it that climate change is real, that we have to restore nature and fit ourselves into it. And that's my big hope that they'll lead the world in that. So that's hopefully the legacy of Zhou Enlai. Yes. He was an organic philosopher. Yes. And Taoism is a philosophy of humans in nature in balance. Right. Right. And that's balance. So it's deep in the Chinese psyche, I believe, to lead the world in... So we should watch China for lessons. I mean, we should watch with open mind and also with skepticism because there are things to understand and accept and there are things to criticize on both sides. And part of that is because we encourage them.  Yeah, make all the iPhones you can as quick as you can. That's right. But I believe we are at this tipping point, we are going to mature into a balanced society where we take care of each other and of the planet. You said something right at the beginning that said, when I asked how do we turn something around like this, you said it's already happening. So let's cover two things that are local here, but also with global implications that prove your thesis that it's already happening. One is the course that you've created with others on sustainable business at Shamanad. Tell us a few words about that and how that's working. With a team that's half native Hawaiian, we created four courses as a concentration called Island Economies that are about sustainable living in the future for the business students in the MBA program to learn how to fit our economies into the natural world and how to restore the Hawaiian values of community. So you're one of the faculty that's teaching those classes. And so I just taught the first of the four courses and the other members of the team will then feed into the loop and do the successive ones in a year. That's just great to bring that kind of understanding into higher education. And to see how unsustainable our Hawaiian economy is now and what we can do to make it more sustainable. And to draw on the wisdom of the Hawaiian people to help bring it on. Nature and the Hawaiian culture has a great deal of wisdom, yes. Second, you became aware of, you told us about this resilient city's 100 movement. That's very intriguing because it comes from one of the largest old line philanthropic organizations in the world, the Rockefeller Foundation in New York with its roots back in 19th century industrialism. And still now producing some very useful ideas. And Honolulu was one of a hundred cities that was chosen to be a resilient city. And in our recent balloting, the people of Hawaii approved the idea of creating a chief resilience officer. Well, setting up an office of resilience and sustainability in City Hall and then Rockefeller, as it chose Honolulu in its third cohort to make up the hundred cities, is going to fund a chief resilience officer to head that office. And there have been two meetings just now in December launching the project, which is to address two problems. One is solving the chronic problems we have such as homelessness as way at the top of the list. In other words, the non-inclusive economy, rather than the inclusive economy we've talked about as modeled in our bodies. And the other is to build resilience against disasters. We know that our beaches are already eroding and that it's going to get worse before it gets better. We're importing 95% of our food and energy. We have the best clean energy program in the United States and we just turned out to have the healthiest people in the United States, which is good for us. But we must do more local production. And the way of the future is more and more local production, less shipping things so far around the globe. Doesn't mean we're going to end global trade. But cities to me are natural entities just like cells and cities I believe are the hope of the future, linking up with each other, sharing the information as they try to solve these problems. So this is something that can be focused through City Hall and apparently the mayor has become involved. He got the grant, yes. It's a modest-sized grant, but it's a catalyst. Yes. And you're involved with the group of people. So I'd like to encourage people to contact you. You're a good contact for the beginnings of this for information about how this is working. Because I'm thinking that businesses here need to learn about resilience and this whole organic economy so that they can apply the principles to their own businesses. And the sorts of areas that you just described as being critical are areas where that need increased investment. So investors who are looking for opportunities in Hawaii could do well to look into those sectors and maybe tune into this resilience group. Anything that makes our economy more resilient, our business is more viable. Yes. We'll be more profitable. Yes, it will. We'll have opportunities for investors. It'll generate stable employment and high value. The alternative is going broke. Yes. All right. So there was quite a good group of people, public and private sector. I think you said the Sierra Club was there and the Office of Hawaiian Affairs was there and our friend Ramsey Tom was there. Our friend Roger Epstein was there. Dr. Tussi with his breadfruit initiative all over the Pacific. That's a business that's really coming up. We've come to the end of a very quick half hour. Elizabeth, I want to thank you so much for your time. We could go on for another half hour and a half hour after that. But wish everyone a happy new year. Absolutely. And very pleased to have shared this time with you. A resilient new year.