If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, this episode, for 45 minutes, with your introductory conversation, we start off by talking about Justin's favorite subject ever. What's that? Macro tracking. He loves talking about the macro tracking. So much fun. He gets sweaty right away. He starts getting sweaty right away. It's like a greasy sweater. That's kind of hot in here. Don't look at me when you say greasy. I feel like that's racist. Then we talked about Organifi protein because we started a contest to see who can make the most changes and we're trying to get in the right amount of protein and Organifi provides that for us. We are sponsored by Organifi.  Then we talked about our new life aid commercial. If you go to lifeaidbevco.com forward slash mind pump, you can see that commercial with us and we negotiated another great deal for you guys. Hell of a good deal. Two cans of any of their beverages, their life aid or fit aid or party aid or others for 99 cents includes free shipping. We got the hook up for you guys. Then we talked about maintaining muscle and strength while aging. So as we get older, like how are we gonna keep our bodies looking as pristine and awesome and sexy as they do now? Then we talked about wasted space in houses. We talked about the dream man cave. That was fun.  And we talked about bird chargers. Bird catchers. Bird catchers and bird chargers. That's bird catchers, Doug. Yeah, they're both though. They call them chargers. This says chargers in the article. Oh, look at that. Then we get into the questions. The first question was, as a trainer, how do you balance out what your client wants with what they really need?  Be a professional.  Yeah, it works every time. Then the next question was, can we explain how you're able to make a lot of money as a personal trainer? Like, what if this person wants to make deep six figures? How is that possible as a personal trainer? They're finding it very difficult. The first thing you need to do is stop sucking. Next question was, we, I advocate personally, longer fast once in a while, but what are our opinions on the daily short fast? Like a 16 hour fast every day? What's the difference? Long fast versus the daily short ones? What are the benefits? Which one should you do? Which one do we like? Is this trendy? Yep, and the last question was, you know, food choices are very important for overall body composition. But let's say you ate the same amount of calories and macros with a diet that was made up of whole natural foods versus one that was made up of processed foods. Which one would lead to a better physique? Physique. You gotta emphasize the geek. Physique. Also, this month, Maps Anabolic. Psst, psst, psst, psst, psst, psst, psst. Thank you, Justin. Yeah, come on. I got terrible gun noises. It's like pew pew. You're fired. 50% off Maps Anabolic. Under 60 bucks, you can have the program that started it all. It's actually the most popular Maps program. I think we've sold the most Maps Anabolic over anything else.  This is your recipe. If you wanna build muscle and strength, this is the program I recommend. If you have like some experience, but not a lot of experience, and you wanna try Maps programming, this is the program we recommend. Maps Anabolic, 50% off, mindpumpmedia.com. We also have bundles on that site. Bundles where we combine multiple Maps programs, put them together and discount them massively. For example, our super bundle is a year, a full year, it's 12 months, 365 days of fitness all planned out for you. You can find that bundle and the other bundles and the 50% off Maps Anabolic at mindpumpmedia.com. Do you know what just started? Blast me. The games. Let the games begin. Games have. Can we just call it the games? The games have begun. The games games. The contest to end all contests. Who will win? I'm back. I think, I'm here. I think this is gonna be exciting, bro. I am here. I am in here. I'm present. I haven't been here for a while. I went through my own little divorce for about eight months, dude. You know what I'm saying? Kinda liked it, kinda liked that. That's not that close. There's nothing wrong with that, man. Dude, the contest is here, though.  What's going on? Have you started or are you waiting till we do the first weigh in? Well, it's funny you went to that right away. Have we already started? Yeah, dietary-wise and all that. I've been on point for like, 10 years. But I'm just wondering if we're just gonna. Captain consistency over there. I, you know, I don't know if it's because I've done this so many times now, but I have a very methodical approach to getting into good shape. And I just change one little thing and every single week I get a little bit better about something.  I just recently started tracking a little bit. And so what that, what is a little bit of tracking in Fat Secret looks like? The only thing that I'm paying attention to right now is my protein intake. So it's funny you went that direction because, and I've mentioned this on the podcast before, but for me, I under, I grossly under eat protein. If I do not, if I'm not paying attention to it and going and, and, uh. You just don't want it? It's not that I don't want it. It's just that I'm a 220 pound guy and two or three good, good, okay.  Which is by the way, rarely served, okay. Most steak servings when you buy a, yeah, eight ounces. And eight ounces. Where are they feeding babies? Right? Eight ounces is about 45 grams of protein. That's not a lot of protein. So if I had three steak meals in a day, it's still not enough protein for what I need for the training volume that I'm doing. Yeah. Cause what do you, what are you looking to hit? About 200 to 210? 200 is a nice. So for me, I would, my goal is 200. Now, if I fall a little short of that, I go a little over that. That's whatever. So basically are you aiming for like four high protein, really high protein meals? Yeah, 50 grams. So think about that. So a, a steak dinner is still not enough for me. So I need to have a large steak dinner or get like the way you guys saw me eat yesterday when we were out at, I got a Caesar salad that I added chicken, which is when they add chicken, I know it's about four ounces. And then I got a steak meal, which I know is about eight ounces. So that's only 12 ounces of meat. But now that puts me more about 60 to 80 grams of protein for a meal. And I'm eating about three meals a day. Are you adding the shakes yet? To try and get that up a little bit. So I use, I use organized shakes when I don't hit my requirements. So if I don't hit my requirements. End of the day. End of the day. So that's like kind of how I finished my night off. So, and that, this is where I'm using fat secrets. So at the end of the night, this is like a Katrina and I will be heading to bed. We're normally heading to bed somewhere between seven and 10 p.m. And I'm always like going like, okay, do I need another meal? And then I'll lay right there in bed. I'll put it in. I'll start adding things up. Yep. I'll start adding everything's up. Everything up in fat secret. And if I'm, if I'm somewhere close to that 200 mark, I'm not worried. Like if I'm at 160, 180, even like, not really like going to go get a shake. You don't want to go below 150. Right. So for me, it's more like that, which very easily I can have two or three meals that are just standard four to eight ounce, you know, servings of meat. And so then, then I'm adding in the organifi protein shake at the end of the night. And then, and I'm just mixing it. I'm just sprinkling it on my steak. That's what I'm doing. I take a stupid, I just sprinkle it. That would be so disgusting. I know, wouldn't be gross. I like, I wouldn't put it past you though. I like the organifi shakes by themselves. They taste pretty goddamn good. I used to have the, I used to do the vegan protein. Remember the ones I used to do all the time? Yeah. And I can tolerate supplements that don't taste good for whatever reason. I have an incredible taste. You don't even make like those faces like I make. No. Yeah. You guys are babies about it. I have no problem whatsoever. But now I'm spoiled with the organifi shake because I had a plant protein one the other day because I was at Whole Foods and I saw this packet sample. Dude, it's like, it's like chalk. Like the stuff that you used to use in the chalkboards, you know? It does not sit right in my stomach. Yeah. Like I drank it and then I was like, and powder came out my face. It wasn't, it wasn't, Justin, have you ever tracked to see what your macros are ever? Have you ever done that? I have, yeah. What are your, what was it? What are your targets? Well, because like I was going pretty close to the one-to-one with protein and then I would base off that and go, you know, higher fat, you know, percentage. Like, so that was something that I was like concerned with. And so, yeah, my, my carbon take is always really low actually. So that, that was something that wasn't like, I actually have to get more carbohydrates. Like, you know, if I'm going to go for like a more balanced kind of a macro profile. What, what, what were you hitting back, way back in the early days of Mind Pump when you were doing your transformation thing? Were you, were you manipulating anything like looking at the numbers or was it off by feel? It was mainly by feel.  But, you know, I would set myself up as like a standard of based off of the meals. And then I would try and duplicate that. But then based off of my feel going into the workouts, like I would manipulate my carbs especially to, you know, make sure that my performance, like in the gym, like, because I, I do feel a difference if I'm like, I'm really low and I'm, and I'm trying to like lift heavy weights. Like it really does affect me. So that's really it. It's more from a performance basis of like how, how you feel in the gym. How I feel in the gym. Interesting. But yeah, if I took Adam's approach, I know it would change my composition.  It is. But I, I, I'm taking that upon myself to get better at that. Like for this competition and that's something that like, I know we'll, you know, add in. Don't ask Adam for advice though. I'm not.   You know what I mean? Like screw that guy. I already learned everything I needed to know.  You know what I'm saying? I just haven't, I'm not, I'm like stubborn. You know what I mean? Like I just, I don't care. Like I have so many things in my life I need to concentrate on and that's not one of those things that has ever been a priority. It makes a perfect balance for the show because in reality, like if, and I thought, I saw somebody post this on Instagram the other day and I thought it was a really good post and they're like talking about like, they showed like a very healthy body. You know, here's a healthy, very, very healthy person and they don't look like, when you look at them, you wouldn't be like super impressed at all. You know, they, they had relatively lean, decent muscle. And when you say relatively lean, I think people still think like, no, like 14, for a guy, it was like 14, 15% body fat around that range. They were kind of soft looking, you know, they didn't look overly much. There's a bit of an individual variance though because for me, for me, he's lower than that. I'm not like shredded, but health for me is a little bit. Yeah, but. That's why I fall. But some people fall a little higher. And it's also, it's, I think it's also a moving target too, right? I don't think that, you know, being healthy is living sometimes in a deficit. Being healthy is sometimes living in a surplus, right? So I think that it's like a, kind of ebb and flow type of deal.  Now, unfortunately, we would never be able to build a business without teaching people how to get ripped and shredded because people want to look a certain way. The knowledge is good to have, even if you don't ever do it, it's good to know what to do or how to manipulate things to get there. And that's why I think too, it's good to also, you know, like get out of your comfort.   Or like. There are a lot of people that do though. There are a lot, but there's a lot of people that don't, like they just want to look better. Is what I'm saying. So, you know, on that end of it, that's kind of like where my spectrum, like that's really all I've ever cared about ever since I was a kid. The beauty of like competing and then taking it to the crazy level that I did as far as like measuring and tracking is it just gave me insight to how certain foods and habits that I had and how they affected me positively and negatively. Like there's certain things that I would have probably said before. It's knowledge. Yeah, it gave me a whole. Well, especially the way you did it because a lot of people just follow their prescriptions and don't pay attention to anything. They just do what they're told. I was consensitably manipulating and changing always. Yeah, it was never eating the same.  Right, right. If you really think about it, you know, because you're paying attention to all the signs and signals and realizing that, oh, if I get my macro profile to here but I eat a lot of bars, I look different than if I don't eat a lot of bars or if I eat this kind of carb versus that kind of carb, if I drink this much water versus, you know, that's kind of like intuitive macro counting.  Right, right. You know, responding the way they want. So to me, that's the biggest takeaway from, you know, going to that low of a body fat percentage and being so crazy to where you track everything. You know, I think I had a very, very healthy relationship with all of it, like, and I was able to let go of it like no big deal.  And I know some competitors that they just, they freak out. They're either way off or way on and they need all these things. They need the weighing and measuring. They need the tracking in order to stay in shape where not me, because I connected a lot of like, oh, when I eat these types of foods, I tend to, it tends to kick up my cravings and then I make more bad choices and that leads to this. And if I, if I just sacrifice these things that I like, that it really helps me overall. Like, so I just learned a lot of little things like that that made a big difference long-term. I'm excited to see that how, what the changes we can make. It's what six weeks we decided, right? Six week period. So it'll be interesting. I think a 6% loss of body fat in six weeks is a very good, decent goal that I'd like to set for myself between five to 7%. I don't want to push it too much because I might end up losing lean body mass and you know, pushing a little too difficult. I'd rather, I want to maintain some of my, even though the strength is not a parameter that we're manipulating. So I'm going to, I'll be honest with you guys, my strategy in this is not purely just to get ripped, get shredded. Like, so this six weeks, I'm not going to be dieting like I would to get ready for a show. Cause I still am building my physique back to where it was before. So I'm going to be using a lot of our techniques that we talk about, which is, you know, in and out of our depth. So deficit surplus, deficit surplus. I won't be cutting for longer than about two weeks. I probably won't be bulking longer than about two weeks because I do care about lean body mass more than I care about reducing my body fat. Now that being said, I, my goal is to lean out during these six weeks even more, but even more so, I care about the lean body mass and anything else cause I still would like to have more muscle on me than I have right now. And I'd like to be stronger than what I am right now. So I'm still, as much as we're in a competition, I'm very much so still on my track of what I'm trying to do. Well, number one is, I don't think anybody's going to compromise their own health and bodies. Yeah, well, that's the thing. I don't want to, cause my entire goal this year, which I've already been chipping away at was to just bring my overall health, you know, way, you know, better. Like I had to address things that I've been fighting like chronically my whole life. So I mean, I'm already like chipping away at that. And then like, like sleep apneas, like the other part I'm really trying to avoid or, you know, recognize that maybe I do have a little bit of that and I need to address that. And how can I do that nutritionally? And how can I do that with, you know, my lifestyle habits?  No.  I don't believe that. Oh, forget it, bro. He's going to win. Yeah. That's his, that's the problem. Bro, I've already- He cuts cheese out. It's like a secret. Secret weapon. I know we're going to do that. I'm going to try to one of those like automatic cheese things that get sent here. Automatic cheese. Cheese on command. Yeah, bro. We're going to have cheese platters out all the time. Back of the day, this reminds me. Back of the day. It's fine, bro. I am really disciplined motherfucker. You guys, like that's why I don't- You just treat it for butter, bro. I saw him drinking the butter at breakfast yesterday. Yeah. I love it. Can I get more butter, please? There's 14 packets on the table, bro. How many more do you need? Actually, so it's funny. We went to get coffee once and I ate a pat of butter. And Justin looked at me just fondly. Like, oh, that's my boy. You're my guy. And he had some. Years ago, years ago, I was probably like 19 or 20, I was competing with my buddy Don, one of my good, good friends. And we were trying to see who could get leaner.  Like, I would go to the- like, I'd go get food, right? I'd go get burritos. And I'd be like, all right, what do you want? And he's like, all right, I want chicken, rice, beans. He trusted you to go get them. Oh, bro, I'd be like extra sour cream or get sandwiches, you know? I'd be like, can you put extra mayonnaise on his? Or I'd put like candy bars in his desk. So we'd open his desk, they'd be a candy bar right there.   Or he'd be like, is this a diet coke? Because it tastes really sweet. And we're like, oh, no, that's a diet. I'm going to leave good and plenty's all over the place for Adam. Oh, yeah. It's on, dude. It's going to be so fun.  They've been sitting right next to me, bro, for months. I'm in a zone, bro. You haven't opened it.  I'm going to open it.  I'll swim in good and plenty's, bro. Swim it. Not even tripping, dude. I don't even want to hold my breath. There's a break in the neck. Yeah, no problem, man. Once I said it. There's a red velvet cake. There's a reason why committed is tattooed on my forearm, bro.  Bro, that's like we say we wear a t-shirt that says I'm a badass.  Sure it does. It's the first step in that direction. That's why I wear a tap out shirt. That's why I got a Superman emblem. Tattoo, because that's who I am. Yeah, exactly. I love it. It's going to be fun. Dude, how good did the commercial do that video that we made? What was it for Life Aid? Oh, for Life Aid. Oh. Yeah. I set up an R&G now, right? Yeah, no. People can find it and they'll watch it. So money. It's on the landing page. You can actually. I know that, oh yeah, that's right. Taylor put a teaser of it on the Instagram page. Instagram page. Yeah. And then we all have, I know I saw, his Instastory commercial, I saw you did your, I'll just, did your, I still owe my, I'm going to get yelled at by Breonna here. So what's their promotion right now? You get two cans for 99 bucks? Bro. I mean, so 99 cents, excuse me? Bro.  You get two cans for 99. Everybody's like up. 99 dollars. They're like nice commercial there, guys. Trust me, it's a good deal. No, 99 cents for two cans. Plus free shipping. Free shipping. No, it's brilliant. Yeah. It's really brilliant.  I think it's cool. Yeah. That's a lot of confidence in your product. The one that I like the most is the party aid. Yeah. I really do like the life aid. That sounds like, ah, it's just the flavor. Exactly. What I like most about it is it tastes good, and there's no artificial flavors. Nothing artificial in there, you know what I mean? Yeah. And it's also super low-key. It was a 45-cali. What I think is really cool that they did is how, how they're making drinks for categories. I just think that's really cool. Smart.  Like, okay, this sport, this is what they're going to be looking for. Well, like party aid has milk thistle, which helps your liver detoxify things, which if you're drinking a lot or partying, it's a good thing to have. There's 5-HTP, which helps replenish serotonin, because after a, you know, heavy night of partying, serotonin may be a little depleted. So you may want to take some 5-HTP. There's tyrosine in there, which helps produce dopamine in the brain. They've got good ingredients and decent amounts, and then there's no artificial sweeteners. They taste good. It's like 45 calories a can. That's, they've done it, they've done it. That's, I mean, how hard is it to get us to work with a drink company? You know what I mean? Almost impossible. But, you know, the guy, they brought their stuff, we took a look at it. No. And I think we talked about Aaron last time, like it's big for us.  I'm a big fan.  Yeah. I mean, we're all tied together. I mean, they're big in the Spartan world now, and we're connected to that whole world and like what everything's going on there. So I just like, I like their message. I like what they're doing. I even love the way that they're marketing it like that. I mean, two cans for 99 cents. That's pretty dope. And they do shipping. Not a lot of ready-to-drink drinks are shipped like that. So it's not, you can't make one. That's even better than I remember the days where you'd get like those safely select, you know, a version of like sodas. And it was like a corner. You're like, yeah. Yeah. Minded you of when things were less expensive. It just said cola. You know what I mean? Dr. Becker or whatever. It didn't even say grape on it. It just said purple. You know what I mean? Purple drink. I'll get the purple one. That one's good. Hey, what's your favorite flavor? Red. I like the red one. So check out the title of this article that I read the other day. Skinny fat in older adults may predict dementia and Alzheimer's risk. So they're starting to find now, they're starting to find now that low muscle mass in combination with a lot of body fat is an important predictor of whether or not you're going to have dementia and Alzheimer's. Now we've talked about this before where a lot of scientists or experts in the field of dementia and Alzheimer's are calling them type three diabetes. Type three diabetes. Now is this because your low muscle mass, so metabolism is going to be low or the average person is probably over-consuming, you're thinking inflammation in the brain also. I would think that's what this means. Your brains, your insulin resistance, your body's inability to use insulin efficiently is a very strong predictor for dementia and Alzheimer's. And nothing is a greater insurance or a better insurance against that than muscle mass. Sarcopenia, which is losing muscle mass or low muscle mass, we've known for a long time is connected to... And the reason behind it is just simply though because you're speeding your metabolism by having a larger demand and need for glucose because you have muscle mass. I mean, that's more simply put. Yeah, and muscle utilizes and stores some glycogen along with the liver. So having more muscle just makes you more sensitive to insulin. So the studies that I've looked up show that a 10% increase in muscle mass all across the board will reduce your diabetes risk by over 12%. So there's like a direct relationship and I've been talking about this now for a while. Which we need 10%, well, 10%, that's 20 pounds, it's a lot. Yeah, but they're talking about across the board, people who already have diabetes, people who are old, people like everybody. When you look at healthy individuals, the percentage goes up even more. And here's the thing, and I've been talking about this for a long time, build muscle. Like in the context of modern life, more muscle is gonna, fashion metabolism, better insulin sensitivity. You get away with more when you have more muscle. And if you want to protect your brain, they're finding this is a big one.  That by themselves are good predictors of all cause mortality later on life. They'll take people and they don't have to test anything else. And they'll test their grip strength.  That's been like a life goal for me that is to never to lose that. Obviously at one point in my life, I will eventually lose it. So to keep maintaining that as long as possible is the ability to get up off the ground with no hands. Or just your legs floating? Just being able to, in order to have the core strength and hip mobility to do that. I mean, it's not as easy as it may sound. I mean, a lot of people probably listening to this show actually might not even be able to do that without putting your hands on the ground and pushing up.  The tests let you use your hands. Just can't grab on to things.  You want one with a good people, yeah. Right, for me personally, I've set a goal for myself to be able to get it. So I'm always practicing different ways of getting it. Right, like from the 1990 position or from the Neil, yeah. Yeah, so I think it's a cool thing to test yourself and to see, can I get up off the ground without using any hands? I mean, obviously if you can't do it with hands, you can't do it without it. But I think that's a cool goal to have and a good gauge to realize, oh shit, when that starts getting tough, this is not a good, I need work. For me, I've thought about that myself. And for me, one of my goals is to be always, for most of my life, to be able to squat my body weight and deadlift one and a half times my body weight. Now, that's not a huge goal, right? That'd be a 300 pound deadlift and a 200 pound squat.  I think it's realistic if I stay consistent. Because I've trained people in that age group who've been consistent training and that's something that's totally achievable. I've trained, like I said, a client who's 77 now, I think. I haven't trained him a long time. But I know he can do those things and he's been working out for his whole life. I wonder what the strongest old client I've had that squatting and deadlifting was. I'm trying to think of that right now. What's the strongest client you've ever trained? Have you ever trained a client stronger than you? In areas. What's the biggest lift you guys have ever? I don't think I've ever trained anybody who can out deadlift me or out squat me, which is not that impressive because somebody would just have to be able to squat and deadlift more than 550 pounds. But I don't think I've had a client that can do either of those. But I've definitely had people who can overhead press me and chest press better than me. So I've had clients like that. I've had squat and deadlifts. You've trained a lot of athletes. There was a lot of body mass. But the ratio, I think, if you went body weight to strength ratio, I think that we could have been comparable. But it was ridiculous because I'm training like 350 almost 400 pound guys like I've trained before. So putting up crazy numbers, like 500. I haven't trained a lot. I didn't train a lot of athletes. So it wasn't very, very common. Well, it's not very commonly trained athletes, period. No, it's not. It was very short-lived, too. I think people are surprised by that. There's windows you have them. That's actually a mistake I think a lot of trainers make. No, I thought so. I wanted to be a special... I wanted to specialize in just training athletes.  Yeah, because it comes up on the show all the time that that's my background. But yeah, it is. But I would literally see them for maybe a couple months out of the year. And that was it. And then I just basically gave them a protocol to keep repeating. But yeah, it's a terrible business strategy to have everything focused just on athletes. Unless you're right next to a facility where you're training all of the pro athletes. Yeah. You know, it's funny, nowadays, like a 500-pound plus deadlift in a decent gym isn't super impressive. It wasn't that long ago where I would put five plates on the bar and pull it off the floor and everybody in the gym would freak out because nobody deadlifted. But now you're starting to see more people.  You used to be just so unique.  So I'd go in there and I'd wait. Yeah, I'd go in at 195, right?  And I'd put over five plates on the bar and I'd pull it up and trainers and bodybuilders would come up to me and be like, oh, fuck, man, that's a lot. But it's because nobody deadlifted. Now I'm starting to see... I don't see it super common, but you see strong dudes pulling five plates. They're pulling over four or five plates, dude. It's not that... Anytime I put that weight on, I tend to get looks. People are paying attention. If you're pulling over 400 pounds and you're working out, right, you don't look like a guy who's coming in. Well, now for me it's like, okay, are they going to full depth? Then that's another thing.  My goal, I want to be able to pull six plates again this year. My goal is to not give myself strength goals this year. Just go straight without them. Well, what I did for a good part of Mind Pump when we first came on board here was I was heavily focused on strength. You got swept in. And I did. I did. And because I'm so competitive, and even more so with myself, I always razz and say that I was trying to chase out and stuff like that, but I'm very competitive with myself and watching myself increase strength, increase strength. It was a new thing for you. It was double and triples. That was never in my training routine. Six reps was the floor for me. That's as low as I ever went. And even then, I did it in small cycles to break the hypertrophy type training up all the time. To actually train purely strength training and power for months and months and months, it caused a lot of problems for me. I'm actually part of the whole Achilles thing and the testosterone thing and kind of losing all the muscle I lost. How do you take care of your body? I do. I want to feel good, man. And some of the best I ever felt was when I was kind of competing and training very bodybuilder-esque. Now, that's not to say I'm not still going to... Well, now you're going to combine it with mobility. That's the difference. And that's what I've done so far. One of the things that's kind of crazy right now is my squat strength is nowhere near what it was when I was at my peak, but I'm back to working out with three plates with depth. I control all the way at the bottom. Excellent. It's the best I've ever felt. And the funny part is I was a guy who avoided squats for a very long time because of my low back. My low back has never felt so good, but it's taken... It's all the mobility stuff. I will not do an alternate grip ever again. I got too comfortable with the same side alternate grip, and now it's just a hook grip. I mean, I've still been practicing it, dude. I'm just terrible at it. I'm going to have to do it with you and see. How much have I pulled double or hand? 545, I think I pulled. Yeah, bro. If you're pulling over five plates, man, with hook grip. It takes time to get used to, dude, and I'm still not as secure as I would be with an alternate grip. Although, I don't know. I haven't gone past like the mid-fives yet or the low mid-fives. You know what I did, and I hadn't done this in a long time. I just did this last week. I broke the weight belt and the squat shoes out. And I squat it. Oh, my God. Dude, after all the work I've done on mobility and being at the floor strength-wise and working my way back... Easy work, dude. I was like, oh, I could see where I could get addicted to wanting to use it all the time to that, because I struggled so much to get back to squatting three plates with that kind of depth, and then I threw the belt on it. A single 315 was kind of rough for me a couple of weeks before that to five reps of 315 just coming up.  I never got into the weight belt but what I did get into was the wrist wraps for doing power cleans. Oh, my God, that was so much easier. Oh, of course. I remember just putting up numbers that were crazy. That speed and power, man. You eliminate one big, humongous factor.  It's everything.  That's very, very difficult. So I did the... I'm in the phase two. I just started phase two of split and I did the first leg workout in phase two, and let me tell you something.   It starts off with... You do three sets of supersets of leg extensions to leg curls. I didn't have a leg extension and leg curl machine. This was a favorite of mine. I did sissy squats and leg curls on the physio ball. Super set, superset, superset. Did three of those.  First off, I hate anything over five reps, so it's just exhausting. Plus, after doing those supersets where my legs were already pumped, that was pretty gnarly. That was a nice little pump. And then I was doing the hip thrust, which I never do. So now I'm doing hip thrust, and my butt is growing. You know, that's the one move. I threw him in there a while back and started getting into it.  And I still feel like a chick. Do you really? I just feel like a chick doing it. Feel like a woman. Put your heels on. And I know, I have great, great value. I mean, for a girl who's trying to build her butt, there's not to say, I mean, a guy who wants to build his butt, why not? What I won't do is post my hip thrust PRs.   Come on. Nobody cares. It's a thing right now. It's a thing right now. I mean, yeah, it's impressive. I can see you're doing a lot of weight, but it's a hip thrust. Show us a squat or something. It's like doing a PR. Like a leg press. Look at my PR for curls. Nobody cares. Nobody cares what you can hit for us. Good for you. Some 10 lifts or something. You're going to break your girlfriend. Look at my leg extensions, guys. I'm going to agree with you. That's how I feel about them. I feel like nothing wrong with doing them. Just don't show off. It's not like show off material. It doesn't feel like something you can brag about. Imagine if I came to work, I'm like, you guys are going to die on this contest. I'm going to beat you guys. Three plates. What overhead press? No, no, no. Three plates on the hip thrust.  I'm thrusted. You guys aren't thrusted. It's a good analogy, though, because you're right. If it was like a bicep curl, it would be pretty funny to talk about bicep curl PRs. Exactly. Like what are we doing here?  That's the truth. I can reverse curl more than almost anybody.  Nobody's ever cared. Nobody cares. 125 pound reverse curl.  So, you know what was great? We were talking about this on the plane, on the way over here from LA.  Lime and Bird. Those are the two big heavy hitters. Uber just infused $300 million. 300 million. This is serious money going on. They're now valued over 400 million both those companies.  This is the beginning of it. The second, self-driving cars kind of becomes more of a thing with Uber, and you have these little scooters. It's going to eliminate all need for public transportation, for cars, everything. I can hear you that this next car that I buy will be the last car that I buy, man. It's good. We got Elon Musk digging tunnels underneath us. We got scooters popping up all over the place. Uber and Lyft is so cheap. I really believe that. Not far from now. You already have these zip cars and share ride things where you can have if you want that. I think most families in the future are going to own one vehicle. Think about it this way. How much money, time, and of the economy is tied up, and what I mean by tied up is it's not efficient versus what it's going to be. Tied up in just cars. How much money do you spend on, people spend on car payments, gas, insurance, how much of the space of their home is dedicated to parking.   When you eliminate all of that, that is going to free up so much resources. That is going to be an explosion in economics because it's going to fundamentally change everything. I'm a little bummed too, though. I like cars. I like cool cars. I'm a cool car guy. I can already even see how it's not that cool anymore. I used to get all the time, every vehicle I've ever owned. I had all the magazines. They'd just look through them and be like, oh my God, check out this car. Every vehicle I've owned, the Toyota Corolla I didn't trick out. The Toyota Corolla that I bought. I've always tricked out. I put a K&N filter on my Jetta. Oh, damn. But I remember just not that long ago, I'd go to a gas station or go anywhere, oh man, it's a cool ride.    You can be that guy with a hummer. Remember how that completely declined in like a social weight?  Yeah, or the Escalade or whatever. No, it's not anymore. It's a bummer though, because I like that stuff. I do like it. It goes up there with, I've said this before, I think a long time ago on the podcast. It's like expressing yourself. It is, right? It's like kind of like dressing a certain way. But it's also something that I spend a good portion of my life in. Going back to the Jordan Peterson thing. You look at the things that you do a lot. I've spent a lot of time in my car.  I want to like the way I feel in it. I like the way I want to feel how comfortable it is. I like how it rides, the way it looks. I was talking to somebody about this, and they were talking about bathrooms. Some people trick out their bathroom. They put like thousands of dollars into their bathrooms. You're in there all the time. Especially Justin, he's in there all the time. No, I should have the most high performance one out there on the market.  I feel like the things that I look at now are different than what I used to look at. Because I think of the spaces in my house that I use way more than other spaces. Right, like the kitchen for example. Like 10 years ago. I wouldn't even think about having like a big, big open kitchen with all kinds of countertop and space. Kitchen, bed, toilet. Right, those three areas. And then probably your fourth one, and it's a distant fourth. It's like a little living room, TV room, whatever. They just, they get underutilized. I don't get utilized at all. That's why in my place, there's space for your kitchen table and then like a dining room table. And Jessica's like, why? We're just going to eat in one place. And I never thought of it that way. I'm like, I guess you're right. So we turned it into like a little study with like what we can read and stuff. Because we actually use it. I do kind of like, I don't use this room very often, but I turned it into an office. I don't have that, it's my own space. It's almost like I can like clear my thoughts and kind of like, even if I'm not doing anything, I just like to sit in there by myself. Oh, my final house will have a man cave that I can hide from Katrina. In fact, I want to have it nice and her not there and have it hidden so she doesn't go outside. It'll be like a secret. It'll open the bookcase just to get access to it. What's going to be in your man cave? Is it unlimited how big it is and how rich I am? Yeah, let's have fun with this. What's in your man cave?  I love shuffleboard. So that means it's going to be really long because those things are really long tables.  Like a theater. This is me. I know, I'm just asking. You guys are invited.  There's three or four max. My no is the most important one that I'll spend the most time.  I want a bar. It's got to be a Dill Pass bar in there. Man, I think I covered most of things. My man cave will be the gym that I built in my dream home. It'll be the sickest gym. I'll have mats for jujitsu. I want a steam sauna cold dip. Do I not get that? That's not part of my man cave. That's part of the house. My girl will be allowed in the gym. She's not allowed in this place. Oh, this is no girls allowed. A gym is a gym. My girl is allowed to work out in the gym and she has no business in the man cave. There's no reason that she needs to go in there whatsoever, which means I don't want anything that she would potentially want.  She don't care about darts. She don't care about a pool table. Yeah, she doesn't care about those things. You know? Swimsuit posters. She don't care about anything.  Old 1970s porn.  You know what I'm saying? What's her name? Kathy Ireland posters. Kathy Ireland was everywhere back in the day. She was, dude. Little Cindy Crawford. You can't have a gym in your man cave.  Like a pub looking ambiance. Stools and everything. Definitely some kind of a theater that's small, but a huge screening.  Lots of Star Wars figurines. Barbecue. Some kind of smoke smoker. Down there. Maybe on the outside I can have access to that. Yeah. But yeah, like games. I'd totally be into video games. Like some kind of old arcade games. Like Gauntlet. I only need one game. Street Fighter. Street Fighter is the one, man. We still have yet to play Street Fighter. No, you did.  That was in Austin. You did win.  Darts? Did I lose in darts? See, it was like the Marvel versus Street Fighter. It was kind of tainted. Whatever. I'll give you that. You don't have a real man cave. You guys are hitting it. I want a smoke room. Smoker jackets. I want those. The dual jackets. All my friends. It's like a special club. You have your initials embroidered on it.  There you go.  All separated by Indica, Sativa, and hybrids. See, that's what I'm talking about. Mine would have all the terpenes in it. Beat your heart out, Snoop Dogg. Calculated. Oh, be beautiful. But you know what else I forgot? Oh, in a jam room. I forgot about that. A jam room. Drums and guitars.  You thought I was someone like Strawberry Jam? Yeah, I'm just gonna be jamming. No, you know what I forgot? You know what I forgot, Justin? Adam told me this the other day. Do you know how they collect the scooters? With a truck? No. You didn't know this either? Blew my mind. Bird hunters. What? They call them bird hunters. People that are just hired contractors. They're not hired. Anybody can be an Uber, right? Anybody can be a Lyft driver. Anybody can be a bird catcher. Anybody can go collect these birds.  Yeah.  You know what, Doug? You should google this. How much does a bird collector put in parentheses scooter? So how much does a bird parentheses scooter collector get paid? Yeah. So they do that and then they bring it to a designated location. They want to say drop it off there. It like sends them some kind of money kick back or how does that work? I'm sure it's the same way you get charged. You can get paid, right? I've never done Uber or Lyft. I would imagine that it works the same way. I would imagine the same way you get paid for doing rides. I don't think it automatically gets built up an account like PayPal or something. And then you can transfer money. Well that's smart in terms of providing somebody else to make money off that process. You know what this new market is doing?  Oh it's beautiful.  They can't regulate it. It comes out too fast. Everybody likes it. Good luck now. You can't do it now. They're going to try to regulate it now. Sure. But good luck doing that. The complaints are, oh it's going to be littered everywhere. Oh wow. So this guy wrote a story on it. He says based on my own experience and from talking with other chargers you can easily make $20 to $30 per hour working for bird.  College kids.  Well what I'm saying about this is you have some autonomy because you have your own freedom to collect these things. That's the same article I picked up. Like this is awesome. Yeah.  That's the thing. There's so many opportunities. It's just like it's frustrating. That's why it's like dude it's great that it's there. It's like come on now people like do it $20 to $30 an hour.  What do you think they compute to? $10? Maybe. About that. $10 to $15 an hour in high school. I was making $4.50. I was making $0.50. I worked my way up to $0.50. Well look at it this way. First of all the barrier to do this the barrier to enter this market to collect birds I would assume is low. You don't need to have tons of experience. Of course you can't be like a maniac or a felon but I'm pretty sure most people can sign up for this.  Haven't they shown with the iGen and you're reading the book about how they're more incentivized by real jobs like that. They're going for those types of things that they know they can make money right now doing. Yeah, no. The iGeneration is more money motivated than millennials were. Millennials were more purpose driven and iGen changed the world. Like I am right? Like I'm 19, 20. I want to start a business. I would be doing this a new course. Because it's flexible. You do it whenever you want. Way better than selling books. And then on your own you just you can go and build your business. Like this is a beautiful market. And I think this is brilliant from from companies like Bird where they just they don't even have to collect their own freaking scooters. They just pay people to do it. Well there's a lot of people and my uncle included. We talked to him all the time right? Now at least have a good time for the economy.  China wants to collect. Bitcoin might save us. Bitcoin Thanks for the rescue. Come save us. If you fall short on getting your organic veggies or whole food nutrition Organifi fills the gap with laboratory tested certified organic super foods to help give your health the performance the added edge. Try Organifi totally risk free for 60 days by going to Organifi.com That's O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I .com and use a coupon code MINEPOMP for 20% off at checkout. First question is from K-Dog883 Yo K-Dog! As trainers can you talk about how to balance your clients wants with what they really need? That's a good question. This is one of the things that separates a great trainer from just a good trainer. I agree with you on that. This is one of the main things I would say right because a good trainer can give the client what they want all day long and a client comes in and wants hard workouts wants exciting workouts wants lots of variety. So they're providing good service in terms of how the client perceives them. A great trainer is an excellent communicator and is able to get their client to understand that what they really want are the things that they really need and they can start to follow them along.  That's how I feel. You could be a good buy-in you could be a good teacher and get your classroom and all your students to do the homework, pass the class and do what it takes to get by because you're a whatever, right? But if you're really, really good you can create this you can create these guys and girls in your classroom to be passionate about the subject that you're teaching I feel the same way about personal training and I think it's probably a similar type of feel that you have to kind of go through with these people and I always remember like I remember when I had started off and this is always challenging with someone who's like really stubborn this happens as a trainer.    Because some trainers and a lot of the really smart ones this is the challenge I'd have with leading and managing these guys and girls is that they know that's not what's best for them and so then they would end up arguing with their client and then not selling the deal like not closing the deal. They don't want to come back. Right, so you can't close the deal because you're not agreeing with them and they're the ones paying you and so there is this compromise of yeah yeah absolutely we can do that and so I kind of would get used to saying yeah yeah yeah we can do that. You know what I'm saying? We can do that. I'll consider that. And then when you start their training with them sometimes I would be training them kind of like they wanted when we first started even though I knew that I was gonna take them somewhere else but it's you gotta kind of put these seeds along the way right? We should give some examples like here's a good example I get a client who is coming to see me they hire me because they want to lose you know 40 pounds of body fat but after you know some examination I noticed that they're they have a slow metabolism that they don't have much strength or muscle mass and that they've been overworking and dieting for a long pair of time so I have two options here one option is do I elicit immediate weight loss which would mean increase their activity and cut their calories even more or do I do the right thing which is build some muscle speed up their metabolism and reverse diet them a little bit because I know in the long term that's a way better approach than just cutting their calories and having a burn more calories so this is a communication thing this is you for two things first off as a trainer you gotta be confident when you talk to your client remember they're coming to you for a reason so when you're sitting there talking to your client you need to tell them in a very confident way like look okay we can do this two different ways I can do this the fast way or I can do this the right way now do you want to get in shape and be in shape and not have to worry about this anymore for the rest of your life do you want this to be something that we do permanent or do you want to just lose this weight and then probably gain it back later on do you want to damage your metabolism go down and inevitably they'd say very rarely would they say they want to damage metabolism they'd say something like okay I want to do this the right way and then I'd say okay let me explain to you what happens to the body and I want you, you've already paid me this much money you've already paid me a thousand dollars or whatever I want you to trust me and trust the process I've done this many many times we need to speed up your metabolism here's what the process is going to look like here's what you can expect and map it out for them because it's really difficult to deal with the situation as it happens it's much easier to deal with it when you've predicted it like if I tell a client for the next four weeks we're going to see strength gains you're going to see energy gains you're going to feel better and I should be able to get your calories up by about 300 calories at the end of this you know four week period but you're not going to lose any weight on the scale but you may lose a little bit of body fat when I do a body fat caliper test so that's what I want you to expect now it's not a problem when we get there and I do this process you know what's going to happen at the end of four weeks why haven't I lost any weight why am I not losing weight, why am I not getting smaller what's going on tell them what to expect and tell them why and tell them what is going on with their bodies the entire time you're doing it with them predict, give them those predictions here's what you're going to feel your appetite's actually going to increase why am I appetite going to go up well your metabolism is going to get faster and so as your metabolism gets faster to eat more food you know what else you can expect you're going to be sleeping better you should be expecting to start sleeping better here within the next couple weeks it really makes it a lot easier when you make these predictions plus you look like a fucking prophet when you do this I mean when you say this to your clients and it actually comes true they're going to trust and believe what you said about later on when you tell them don't worry three months from now between three and I would give people a range between three to five months and that's when it's really going to start happening then they'll start to trust you because they're already seeing all the other things that you've predicted they're already seeing all the small changes that you said are going to happen they've seen that they can increase their calories or that they've gotten stronger you have to do that and you have to be confident with that and gain their trust because otherwise you're fuck otherwise all the clients going to want is sore I want to get sore and I want to sweat a lot and I want to see the scale move every single week whether this trainer over here is going to do exactly what I tell them because they're not as good as you are it's kind of like breaking up with a girlfriend it's kind of like breaking up with a girlfriend you know what I'm saying like you're wanting to get your point across or break up and you're also at the same time too because you know you're breaking up and you're probably breaking her heart you don't want to offend her so I always found like when I'm trying to tell a client like they're doing something wrong or that's the wrong idea or wrong thought process if you come straight at it and you're like you're stupid they automatically put a wall up and then they might not sell personal training so you've got to kind of like give them examples of other people even though I'm talking totally right I'm really talking to you but I'm not so let's use your example or what we get a lot which is the client comes in and they're like they want to get hammered and they say that at the very beginning so I just kind of deaf hear it I think we're going to do and then while we're in the training and we're going we're getting after us so many of my clients they come in they want this and I'm talking about them but I'm talking about them as if they're like everybody else you know like all these clients that I always get the number one mistakes that they make so I'm really attacking all the things that I know they want and their thought process and how wrong it is by talking about by over generalizing it because then it makes them feel like you're not singling them out I'm not singling them out I'm not pointing out all their flaws they're an idiot they're wrong and then it turns into me and you and a wrong or right thing it's a me not you you know what I'm saying it's really me a lot of people struggle with this I think that's because of this and so I would talk to them like that and I felt like if I could just keep planning those seeds indirectly they would start to piece it together but what I found really worked well with Susie was rest it was crazy really? I think that worked really well for me otherwise what would happen and I think what happens to a lot to me this is most common with my smart trainers so trainers this is why sometimes it's easier to be a guy or a girl getting into training you don't know a lot because at least then you go you know what I'm not sure about that let me ask my boss if that's a good idea if you're okay with being the trainer who can do things like that I think that's a great strategy and they're more open to that it's the really smart guys and girls that know almost too much are getting their own way right here they understand the science so well this client wants what's wrong they know what's wrong and so they want to tell them because that's their own insecurity they want to put them in their place totally turns people off they care more about being the right trainer and being smart so they end up debating or arguing or telling the client that what they want is not what they really want and that's not a smart approach by it so a better approach is to kind of lead them to the right answer by maybe sharing stories or examples of other clients that also think this way too which is totally common I think doctors do a really good job of this if you ever walked into a doctor's office and you have something or something's happened to you that you're scared about you did something that you've never done before you're really nervous and scared am I going to forever not be able to walk again like no no no listen it's okay this happens to a lot of people just like you that play this sport or this happens this is the process that we go about so making them feel like it's very normal the thought process that they're having and that it's even though it's normal doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right path and you don't even have to tell them that wrong necessarily, first off if you set the stage early you're not going to really run into this as much I see this, this was a problem when I didn't set the stage right when we got into training already and the client already has these you know assumptions because I wasn't clear but if I was really clear early on when a client came and hired me right away and said here's my goal this is what I want to do I don't want to lose weight or whatever I'd say no problem, we can definitely do that let me tell you about the most effective way to do that and then I would explain it to them and here's what's going to happen here here's when it's going to happen there I've trained lots of people in the same situation this is how long it takes them to get their progress but now they've got these great results this is why a park cue, a good park cue is a huge asset explain what a park cue is because a lot of people don't know so a basic park cue and you can get these if you're private training so a good park and you can create your own and I recommend that as you continue to do this you can start building a great like Sal was saying to piggyback off of that man when you get really good at this you can already predict what that person is going to want and what's wrong about it and you can present the right answer to them before they can even come up with that so in other words like a good park cue might have a question in there that says how serious are you about your goals are you serious why are you that serious okay well I'm tired of feeling this way and I'll do whatever it takes how often can you work out seven days a week and they start answering all these questions and I'm going like okay this person is super motivated right now they're willing to work seven days a week so I can already tell you right now that a mistake that this person might make is coming in balls to the wall right away so while I'm talking to them about training and using the over generalization thing that I would do is like you know a lot of clients they come to me and they're super motivated they've been out of shape for a long time and they decide they're going to come in here and they're going to work out really hard and it's actually one of the biggest mistakes that they could make because what they don't realize and then I go into my whole spiel of doing as little as possible to elicit change but what's great is I'd never ask them how do you want to be trained or do you want to be pushed harder about their goals and their commitment level and how serious they are and what they're willing to do I know that this person might lean to this and then I on the flip I also know people that are like one of the questions might be how many days per week can you commit and they circle like one or two and then they're like you know what's kept you from getting in shape in the past oh really busy four kids I work a lot like I don't know if I can commit to that much time so this person I know if they're going to object to me it's going to be about their busy lifestyle spiel I used to say is like this I get this a lot with a lot of my moms they spend their whole life most of their life they've spent making sure that their kids okay and their husband's okay and taking care of the house and everybody as a mother you tend to put everybody else before yourself and then what ends up happening is Susie doesn't take care of herself with her physical needs and what she needs emotionally I always tell my clients is like if you're going to make this change for yourself you need to be a higher priority and what you're going to find out is when you make yourself the number one priority you're going to be a better version of all the you're going to be a better mother you're going to be a better partner you're going to be a better worker you're going to be a better all those things once you learn to put yourself as the number one priority and it's really crazy but this happens and it's really common and it happens a lot to my mom there are habits of types of people and if you have a really good park cue you can start to curate that and so when you go to explain to them what you're going to be doing you can overcome a lot of these obstacles before they even hit you if you're a trainer and you don't spend a lot of time on mastering the art of communication you're making a massive mistake and this was one of the big differences between the successful trainers and the unsuccessful ones because other trainers know a lot of things about exercise they know proper mechanics they know correctional exercise they know good movements and decent programming at least on an individual basis but the ones that didn't understand how to communicate well it's tough to be successful because to be really successful you have to help people change fundamental behaviors and in order to do that you have to be able to really communicate them really really well otherwise it doesn't matter what knowledge you have and how much information you have you're going to have a tough time so I would say really make it a goal of yours to practice these conversational skills and how you approach these things it'll make you a much more successful trainer next question is from dude what yes can you guys explain how you are able to make so much money as personal trainers I love being a personal trainer but it seems almost impossible to make that amount of money what am I missing oh boy there's going to be a lot of things that we're going to talk about answering this question but I do want to say that as a personal trainer you kind of have two main routes that you can take one route is the high volume low dollar per unit route which is classes or lots of clients lots of people maybe online coaching where you've got lots of people one route is the low volume high dollar per unit route which would be I'm only training one on one I only have five clients a day but they're all paying me $150 or $200 both of those are independent trainer type pursuits versus like a corporate trainer that's under they get paid only a certain amount per hour and they get a paycheck so that was something too that even in that environment there's a way to maximize your paycheck and we went through quite a bit when I was working with Adam just based off of like you know how many appointments do I have to take how many people do I have to talk to it's all a numbers game and it's about like really understanding that and being able to see the difference of that based off of how you set yourself up and you got to figure out what your strengths are like if you're a really organized individual and you have a real high volume business then the high volume low dollar route can be a very lucrative way to do it I know people who do this where they manage lots of lots of clients online and they make a lot of money doing it now me personally I don't like working with a ton of people I would prefer to work with less and charge more per client so as a trainer this is what I did you know I'd have clients towards the end of my career and this is before mine pump right so this is before I had authority that the social authority if you will that mine pump now provides me so this is when I was just a local trainer towards the end of my career I was you know I could charge it my top end about $150 a session which is a pretty good amount for a personal trainer even in the Bay Area and I wouldn't I would train you know seven people a day would be kind of where I want to keep myself and I I'd rather do that because I like focusing on one person I like training that one person I like being able to work with everything with that individual and I'm also not super organized so scaling you know 60 70 100 clients online to me would have been just a nightmare because I don't like I said I would have to hire somebody to help me with that segment of the business so I think those are kind of the two directions you want to look like look at and figure those out for yourself now if you go the low volume high dollar amount you got to be a really fucking good trainer you got to be an excellent trainer with very good communication skills and most of the clients you're going to get who are going to pay you that much are referral and plus you're going to be worried a lot more about competition at that you know with that mentality versus like for me it was always about finding my own opportunities my own blue water if you will as far as like what is not being serviced like what that clientele looks like how can I be different than everybody else so that way basically I can create my own sort of brand my own following and I was really drawn more to a couple different business models I saw out there from like one or two trainers that were catering to a more exclusive like their whole thing was about exclusivity and finding like pro athletes or finding like executives or people that were more affluent and I was always wondering like how do you actually get those types of clients because it's it's something that I know like based off of environment a lot of times you know proximity if you're around people enough you'll end up getting you know more of that type of a client but to really pursue that took a lot of strategy took a lot of risk and money to you know go in that direction while simultaneously taking on whatever clients I could but I really built up my business to a point where I invested I invested in the marketing strategy I invested in the idea of catering and building more value out of my own business to appeal to somebody that was looking for you know more service out of the experience and so I just built my business around the experience of training with me and that that paid off after a few months of just really you know focusing my attention in that direction but yeah it's you really have to like understand who it is that you're trying to service like what they're what they actually want what that client actually wants how to find them how to market to them and just really dig into that business I would say finding the first few high paying clients is the hardest once you find the first few and you're really good at what you do they tend to refer you exactly people in there in that same you gotta be confident that you you're able to provide that type of service and find your niche like I liked working with advanced age so I did really well there and I liked because I'm very technical with how I talk about things and you know the way I present training I did very well with the medical community so I started training one doctor and then the next thing you know I started training another doctor and before he knew it you know because they all know each other I had all these clients that were surgeons and doctors and you know anesthesiologist and then they would also refer me their patients and so then it became you know my business was kind of you know self-sustaining from that standpoint but the other thing too is when you're doing the low volume approach you better provide a shit ton of service like you gotta have good ass service that means like it's never this is a silly thing that I didn't have to bring this up but that means you don't show up late for your sessions you look very professional I always wore a uniform I would bring people water with the workouts I'd bring them a towel I was very flexible with our training you know when people would come in if they were tired we did different things or I'd meet them other places because they're paying me a high amount you know per session I think that first of all I'd like to know what he what he thinks is an impossible amount of money to make because I think maybe being realistic there's a lot of mastermind groups out there that are being posted all over Instagram that are a bunch of bullshit there's not a lot of trainers making seven figures and I don't even there's a lot of trainers making six figures I think the average trainer makes somewhere between 50 and 150 now there's outliers on both sides right there's people that broke his fuck making 10 grand a year trying to be a personal trainer and there are some people that are making seven figures but most of the people that are making really really good millions of dollars right have been doing this for a really long time and are pretty pretty smart businessmen and women in multiple businesses typically right and multiple streams right that are that are providing that type of an income I think though personally right now it's a really cool time to try and build a personal training business and I think it's easier to scale than it than it's ever been with the accessibility of you know your clients virtually because that would that that game didn't exist 15 when we started so all new ground right if I was rebuilding now and I've now I've had the pleasure of being able to teach group classes I've also done online online coaching and I've also done high-end one-on-one training and I would absolutely do all three of those so if my pump blew up I was a brand-new trainer just trying to figure my way out and I had all the same resources that this person has I would be building an online basis where I do coaching which doesn't require a lot of my time I can coach people all over the world and that's kind of a I started the coaching online at 250 and then I worked my way up to $500 a month so I would be competitive in that and then refine that skill so you've got anyway and that's you can realistically manage by yourself with no good systems with I mean just an average person I think can manage 15 to 20 clients or so doing that very realistically I think more more people can do once I got above 25 I fell myself kind of giving a disservice of people and that's just because I wasn't really organized about it and I didn't put a really good system in place and I was running multiple businesses but I think you can make okay money doing that I love 100% agree with Sal and Justin I think the private one-on-one strategy is is definitely higher in clients paying high dollar and training less people than high volume there otherwise that's a major hustle and grind and I've done both like I've lived on the other side of like the hustle and that's how I started as a personal trainer where I had to work 10-12 hours every single day to make six figures as a personal trainer and then I worked my way up to where I could train for high dollar and and small a lower volume and then I would do classes and not so much boot camp I would have a modified version of that which is kind of what I finished up doing I would use things like Eldoa and you know maps prime and prime pro as a tool to teach class settings where I'd be charging people anywhere from 10 to $25 a visit or have like a monthly you know fee that they pay and they can go to X amount of classes and then I would teach classes so I would teach classes I would run private training and I do coaching online and I know I could probably make somewhere between $150 and $200,000 a year pretty comfortably and realistically running those three things as a business so I think that there is lots of money to be made if you're okay with that kind of money now if you have ambitions to be a millionaire and you're wanting to do it through personal training well buckle up you know it's taking us 20 years just because mine pump has only been around for three mine pump would never exist if it wasn't for the 15 years prior to that that the three of us had all put in and the fact that it's taking all three of us combined to build a business that's worth over seven figures so I think it is very important that you're realistic about your goal and you got to be careful of what's being marketed to you right now because I see it all over Instagram right now with all the mastermind groups and find out how to be a figure trainer so they're like get the fuck out of here they're teaching you how to create your own mastermind that's what they're doing it's a lot of it's turned into like an MLM hustle and you know who makes the most money on MLMs the people at the fucking top the ones who started it right so that to me is those are kind of unrealistic for a brand new trainer but you can definitely make I think it's realistic for somebody who works hard and is diligent and conscientious and you know relatively intelligent you should be able to make your income as a personal trainer and I want to point out too which you guys went a different direction in this question because I wanted everyone to kind of share their personal journey because we're all really different on why I think we're successful or how we became successful and into six figure plus personal trainers and me a lot of that had nothing to do with my training ability like it could have been any job the way I look at it was my work ethic I was willing to do things that most people weren't willing to do and I know it sounds great to say that but what I see a lot today are trainers and people like oh well I want to work Monday through Friday and I'd like to do a you know schedule that I want yeah this is a schedule that I want and we're in a service business if you're in a service business you're at the mercy of your clientele and you know your first your big millionaire client that you're waiting to get your big break may be a five a hammer and you hate getting up at five a.m. so you miss shit you miss out on that because you've said you only want to work six to four or whatever your schedule is or the guy who's or the guy or girl who potentially could be your other million-dollar client wants to train at 9 p.m. at night because they're they work crazy hours dude one of the I was so true man I was a maniac like that though I had the same thing especially to cater to if I want to build this value that I'm like portraying online and I know my competition it wasn't willing to do a lot of you know those type of hours the 5 a.m. the you know meet at their house and 9 p.m. you know do multiple times a week where I'm like I'm taking over the recovery end of it like we're stretching I'm going shopping with them for their food and we're just I'm just getting like super involved and nobody was doing that and so like that's that's what it took to then you know spread the word and this has became a thing that like I differentiated one of the fat one of the easiest predictors I used to I used to see this one of the easiest predictors of whether or not a trainer would be successful or not I'd have a trainer come up to me you know I'd say oh you know how did your assessment with so and so go and I knew that the person was wealthy and wanted to hire a trainer like oh it just you know they want to work out at 6 a.m. and you know I don't want to work that early in the morning or they want to come at 8 p.m. and it's too late for me and I'd look at them and I knew in my head I'd be like well you're not going to succeed yeah you're not going to make it like that's you're starting to determine things go be go go 9 to 5 somewhere else you know because this isn't going to and that takes time it took me it took me a solid year of taking anything and everything that meant Saturday that meant Sunday that meant 4 a.m. that meant 10 p.m. that meant in the middle of the fucking day that meant all those times the hardest thing that I had everybody the hardest the thing that I always struggled with as a trainer early on was the ability to keep myself in primo shape and be a very successful trainer because I became in order to be very financially successful I sacrificed myself in my training time to make money and to build my business and so that was the real juggle was learning and I never let myself completely go as a trainer but I wasn't in my best shape and I didn't learn that balance until later on in my career but that was because of the work ethic thing I think that a lot of trainers get into the profession because oh I get the flexibility I get to help people and it's like well that's fine that's romantic yeah and if you want if you want that and you're not real you're not a money motivated person then there's nothing wrong with being an awesome trainer very flexible love to train clients and make 40 50 grand a year nothing wrong with that but if you're trying to make millions of dollars you got it you go to I mean I don't know one millionaire that that will sit in front of me and tell me that they didn't grind I mean and didn't you gotta go through the fire you gotta go through the fire it's not it's the end of that right this is like a trust fund baby or something next question is from Aristotle Daphnis I know you guys advocate longer fasts once in a while but I'm curious as to your opinion on daily or frequent intermittent fasting I personally do a daily 16 hour fast and love it I've got my best results in terms of leanness and overall body composition and it allows me to be a lot more flexible with my diet I firmly believe that occasional long fasts are superior to the daily short fast I've been saying that since the beginning but well I mean it's I got sucked into this trap though to be fair with you yeah yeah because it is like it's a new thing and you realize like how effective it is and you don't have to worry as much about you know like what you're eating as much because you're fasting and it's it's keeping you relatively lean but you know and inevitably this is going to come to a halt like this is going to come to a point where it's not benefiting you the same way it was look at you if you if you like it and it works for you and you're happy with your body composition did fucking keep doing it but if you're looking for change just pay attention to and you've been doing that for a long time you've now optimized you're not adapting anymore just think of it just like the way we talk about training this is why I this is was when we first started talking about intermittent fasting this is the the knock that I had on it was I felt you know what most people were already not eating for 12 hours the people that that gravitate towards the warrior fast 16 hour fast every single day we're already kind of doing it and then now they're just kind of resisting for four more I never ate breakfast is a cool now I don't have to right and so I don't think that is enough change to elicit a lot of change in their body for body composition reasons now if that helps you make the great right food choices you have found a good balance nutritionally you are getting all the nutrients that your body needs it works for you then fucking don't mess with it it's fine well back in the day when I was first became a personal trainer it was far more common for a client to skip meals than anything I would get a new client they'd skip meals and so my goal was to get them to don't skip meals make sure you now I was under the false premise that you had to eat every few hours because that was the best thing to do right but I mean honestly most clients would come to us right and they would skip meals and here they are overweight bad health and all that stuff now from a science perspective when we look at the benefits of fasting the real amazing benefits really start to happen at close to 24 hours right around 24 hours and then 48 and 72 hours you see some incredible benefits in terms of cell autophagy you know program cell death or you know stem cell stimulation all that stuff it's incredible the other thing here there's another thing that I want to talk about here and that's many times I get clients who are high stress too much cortisol probably or cortisol resistance or HPA axis dysfunction their metabolism is kind of slow they're overworking themselves I typically make these people eat regularly I make sure they don't fast on a daily fast is not going to benefit that type of a person no if anything it might actually be a detriment now what I will do I would recommend a infrequent fast so I'll say to them okay once every two months we're going to do a 24 to 48 hour fast this is only for healthy people I want to be clear by the way you need to be a healthy individual if you're going to do this and I need to say this just for liability reasons check with your doctor but I'll recommend it every couple months do a 24 to 48 hour fast or 72 hour fast if they're experienced and that's where you get all the benefits now personally speaking I'm just talking about for me now this is my own for a long time I did a pretty close to 24 hour fast every single day so every single day I would eat once or maybe twice a day and I'd have one big big meal at the end of the day and this is what I did for a very long time now it benefited me because it helped me with my gut health because I had less inflammation because I didn't eat all day long or whatever but you know after a while I mean I just kind of got used to it and you know wasn't that big of a deal and it you know it didn't give me the benefits that I see now with this you know I do a 48 hour fast or 72 hour fast once a month I get way better benefits from doing it that way in the context of evolution if we look at how humans probably ate you know what did we do when we had food we ate it you know people didn't say like oh it's not time to eat I don't even really think of it as an evolutionary thing as much as just interrupting the process like nothing is more of a bigger interrupt interruption to the process than somebody who eats every single day or every few hours than to go three days without food versus someone who was already none of us are eating for eight hours at least because we're asleep right so most people aren't eating for at least and then most people don't get up and shovel food right away so most people are not eating for 10 to 12 hours anyway so four more hours of not eating is probably not giving your body huge benefits and the reason why I'm bringing up the evolutionary you know component is because the whole reason why the human body seem to thrive off of fasts is because we evolved in that context where you know we either had food and when we had food we ate it nobody was storing food we didn't have refrigerators nobody was saying oh I'm not going to eat right now it's not time or whatever if you had food you ate it and you probably ate it until it was gone and then when it was gone you were out trying to find more food and that could be 10 hours it could be 15 hours it could be 24 hours it could be 72 hours before you make your next kill or you find your plant or whatever that you're going to eat so in that when we look at it from an evolutionary standpoint it makes sense to have these kind of longer fasts every once in a while and maybe a short fast here and there like you know although I do a 48 hour 72 hour fast once a month I will throw in a 18 to 24 hour fast in between every once in a while I just kind of listen to my body how it feels but what's happening with fasting was one of my biggest fears and that's that fasting now even in the question right in terms of my leanness and body composition one of my biggest fears was that fasting would be turning the next you know diet trend and first off it's not a trend not eating has been how people have lost weight forever right like this is how people have always lost weight and if you don't eat for long enough and that's the way that you like to lose weight there's another term for that we used to call it dyslexia so I don't think I never think fasting is a great way to try to lose weight at all I think fasting can be a great way to learn to relearn your relationship to food as so long as your relationship to food is not starving yourself if you're someone that starved yourself I'm not going to tell you to fast like I'm not going to get a recovering anorexic and I'm going to tell him oh we're going to start your diet off by doing a 72 hour fast right that's the wrong thing but I will take somebody who's been bodybuilding for a long time and eating you know five six times a day that's the person just to assimilate food better yeah go through that whole process but yeah to look at it more as a health promoting practice is is such a better mentality and I mean it does it does so many good things if you use it the right way but you could definitely abuse it absolutely alright our next question is from Cal Burton I know your food choices are important aspect of changing your overall body mass but do they also affect body composition for example if the amount of calories is the same while eating a cleaner diet lead to a better physique so it's kind of a weird question and I think what they're asking is Lane Norton would love this question is it just calories in and macros that matter or does the types of food in other words if we have two diets identical macros identical calories but one side is made up of more whole natural nutrient dense food and the other ones made up of more processed you know type foods which one is going to be better now here's here's the question and I this I love this debate because yes we have studies showing that oh they're probably the same the same the first of all those studies are short second of all here's the here's the important thing does the types of food independent of macros and calories so forget macros and calories do different types of foods affect different systems in the body like neurotransmitter production inflammation hormones do they the answer is yes nobody will debate that they don't now the next question is do all of those things can all of those things play a role in body composition how much fat you have how much muscle you have and how well you progress the answer again is yes so I do not subscribe to the calories calories a calories a calorie and that it's just about macros and calories I don't subscribe to that now here's a thing that someone like Lane Norton will not debate me on and he'll agree with me now that part he'll probably debate but here's the thing that he'll probably agree with me on it's that some foods even though they have the same macros are going to promote a different feeling you may get more hungry you may have better energy levels you may have indigestion or whatever all of those things play roles and how well you can do on your nutrition plan so although you may eat two different foods with the same exact macro profile if the food on the right is the one that makes you hungry or makes you feel like shit that going with that option is probably going to be worse for you in the long term because it may promote overeating it may promote less activity it may it's going to make things more difficult for you and that's typically where I leave it with those two well in the grand scheme of things I think that we are splitting hairs in the difference but I do think as far as body composition like if we're just straight up body composition you have two people and I use myself as an example here because I did this for a show and I think you mentioned this the other day Sal was when I did shows where I use protein bars and shakes like throughout the whole process and then I did shows where I all hold natural foods kept the macros pretty much the same and I could I look different I didn't look the same what you call that the bro answer would be I was less sharp you know I looked whatever right but I know that I looked that I could I could look at myself not only how I looked and how I felt how my body was holding water too and say like I definitely looked better on holds and I noticed that it was easier to follow the diet when I was eating whole foods versus when I was using things in a wrapper whenever I would eat a quest bar which I would love always promoted me to one another one and another one because a hyper palatable yes it's designed to do that right and it's convenient as fuck right like those those things all play a play a role and so if you're if you were as dialed as I was where you you will not budge from your plan and you're going to stick right to your macros throwing in a protein bar here and there instead of having a one cup of rice and chicken breast instead is it going to make a huge difference on your body overall body comes in no but I guarantee you having the whole foods will be easier for you to sustain and follow the program than it would be eating something that's artificial and designed to hijack your palate and I and there's things that I think that we don't know yet I think there's a lot of when you start talking about your your microbiome your gut your gut floor and what could potentially be going on with some of these artificial sweeteners in the fake food that we eat a lot that we're comparing to because that's pretty much what we're doing right now right as we're comparing food that's engineered versus food that is whole if the macros are the same right if I were to eat 500 calories of quest bars versus 500 calories of steak steaks and steak potato and vegetables if the macros are the same am I going to see the same body composition change yeah pretty for the most part you will but there's a lot of other things that could be potentially going on that will make it easier or harder for you absolutely and you know it's funny I bet you if you took a group of people who wanted to lose weight and you told them nothing else you didn't tell them to cut their food or eat less or eat more or do anything else all you did was say all you can eat are whole natural foods you have to eliminate all processed foods out of your diet I bet you on average you would see a weight loss this is why this is why not because the foods are necessarily healthier although they are but because processed foods are designed to make you eat more they just like Adam said they they hijack your systems of satiety I love using this example if I took 2,000 calories worth of plain white boiled potato with no salt no butter nothing and I put that in front of you good luck even finishing it you wouldn't be able to finish it you'd gag you'd be sick of it but I could do the same thing with potato chips and you'd eat the fuck out of that real fast I could eat 2,000 calories with potato chips in 10 minutes and that's the difference and so you know whole natural foods it makes things a lot easier now on the other side of that are they typically healthier yep they are also typically not always you could definitely have whole natural foods that are not as healthy as a processed food but it's much more difficult much more rare and I and I know that most of the money spent on the processed food that you're eating has to do with making it as powerful as possible this is also taking in what we know right now and we don't know everything we still don't know everything and so that to me is there's this other side to this that I feel like we keep learning more and more about this shit that oh that may not be good I mean what just 10-15 years ago everybody was on the artificial sweetener kick because it was save calories but now look where we're at with that who knows where we're going to be at the next 5-10 years you know and where are we at with the red dyes and things like that I mean we keep finding out more and more stuff and the way I feel because I've been doing this for so long it's like you know like you can't go wrong if it's whole natural foods like that you definitely can't go wrong I shouldn't say that you can't go harder to go wrong yeah it's much more different and this used to be a challenge I used to have clients when they had asked me like oh you know write me this specific diet or tell me what to eat I'd be like listen if you can eat all whole natural foods go to town and just keep track of it let me know and then from there I can adjust and you'll be surprised if you just don't open it out of a fucking wrapper out of a can or a box good luck here's how you know here's how you know I love doing this with clients they'll be eating all whole natural foods and then they'll tell me like oh fuck man I'm you know I'm hungry go ahead and eat more like what I don't want I don't want the foods that you know I'm yeah I'm craving yeah you're craving they're craving a processed food yeah I've done this myself for all eat like a full meal with like steak and maybe some rice and some vegetables just a whole again whole natural you still want like chips or exactly at the end of it I'll be like I'm kind of hungry but I definitely don't want to eat the food that I just ate I don't want to eat more of that no I want to have the box of whatever is in the cupboard or the this you know the thing that's in the freezer because that's you know again that's what they're designed to do so oh we just ate yesterday together and we're eating at the hotel that we stayed at I ordered a chicken Caesar salad and I ordered a hanger steak with vegetables and the hanger steak came with potato fries and so I ate everything and I was like except for the potato fries until and I told myself like I'm gonna eat all cover everything I need and then if I still want some at the end and I was actually stuffed like I was did not want any more from in fact I didn't even finish I finished the protein in the chicken in the salad but I didn't even finish all the salad and I barely got the last bit of my hanger steak in and I wanted to taste the potato fries so I took the fry I dip in the ketchup and I ate it oh I want more right then I ate a second one then I ate a third one and then I realized like whoa I had to force myself even to have one because I was already stuffed the minute that I had that I mean just oh my god I could have crushed it I asked the lady to take it away so I was sitting with Doug at that meal I had a ribeye we had broccoli beforehand I had potatoes that came with my steak and we finished our meals and I was pretty full and then Adam was like oh I'm not gonna eat my fries anymore so I started eating those and I knew I was full but I was eating these fries and then Doug is like hey Sal do you want the rest of my steak I took one bite of steak and I didn't want any of the steak this the super engineered french fries novelty yeah you know so I mean I hate this argument because in a perfect world you know yeah you're controlled in a laboratory and you're just given your fed what you're given and that's all you can eat doesn't work that way in the real world count for the psychology right if you didn't because going back to this question if you would have opted not to eat the potatoes and actually measured out the same amount of calories of the french fries and only ate that you would be okay cosmetically but the likelihood of you fucking doing that is so low because of that exactly if you're trying to get lean and you want to make your life miserable eat a lot of processed foods I promise you'll have a fucking tough time eating the right amount of calories to lose body fat if it's a lot of processed food so true very very difficult look we have a lot of free guides we have like 12 of them you can find all of them at mindpumpfree.com go check them out thank you for listening to mind pump the goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted rgbsuperbundle at mindpumpmedia.com the rgbsuperbundle includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the rgbsuperbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the rgbsuperbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love 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