We're on our way to this secret nuclear bunker, it is top secret only a few people know where the location is Suddenly we are at a voice out in the graveyard Caroline this is your lovely part, and you're just around the corner from the nuclear bunker that I'm going to spend the night in Would you do that at all, Caroline? There is a woman here Can you call her out for us please? You know they have the invisible friend Because already I'm getting my hair stood on there So if you just follow me I think it's up this way isn't it Andy? Yeah, I've got a feeling it is just this way somewhere up here. It's a secret nuclear bunker. So completely secret Nobody knows where it is Can you tell me the way to the top secret nuclear bunker that's not that's not written on the On the signpost I think it I think it's so broad isn't it so obvious to anyone when they go there They can just see that sign which made me laugh You know when I saw it actually what does that hark back to the Cold War does it? Yeah, what it was was they were expecting that you know in the Cold War if anything happened and You know the Prime Minister or anyone had to go underground It was going to be Kelvin hatch and actually when you go down in the hatch you can actually see The Prime Minister's room and all the various people all the politicians where they would have been And it was quite funny because there's loads of mannequins around there So I think they had a I think they had a John major or Margaret Thatcher mannequin They didn't have the Boris one there at the time Yes, I think there'd be a lot of people listening wish he'd go down there and we could lock the door Yeah, I can more believe that it would be good Hey, it's absolutely incredible to have you on bought the t-shirt Fantastic The whole reason I started this show is just to chat to Interesting people about fascinating areas of life Some sometimes I know a lot about it and we we have a good old banter other times I'm sat here gobsmacked because it's an area. I've never really sort of Covered myself and ghosts and the like I Think it's okay to say that obviously I have a healthy degree of skepticism Not to put my guests down folks not not at all, but I think rich probably does does himself I I'm exactly the same actually the funny thing is Chris I am I'm the biggest skeptic there is and I started it because there's a lot of programs I've met the most haunted team. I've met coral beaty of that field in and that's the television. I will say I've met all of those people and They once approached me to do a TV show and they said can we get you to a Knock here and not there, you know all the kind of false things that happen on television And I said now I'm not into that I said I want it to be real and I said and I actually Believe that a lot of things can be explained by psychology and my science That's why they call me the ghost challenger because I say to somebody leave me alone in a building or challenger But I don't necessarily believe that we're gonna, you know, you know, you that I'm gonna actually see anything Hmm, and and you're a mental health advocate So we'll come on to that because that's a very very valuable area to cover for all of us in this modern hectic life and times but What what is a ghost?  Well, a lot of people ask that question I mean what actually how do you define a ghost and the truth of the matter is nobody actually Knows what a ghost is and when you see these people on Television or you even see them on YouTube with all their gadgets and saying I can detect a ghost I mean the funny thing and crazy thing about that is they don't really know what one is So how they can detect one is beyond me But obviously ghost is meant to be The spirit of somebody that once lived and once walked amongst us they believe that there is an afterlife many people believe that They can just appear and it's their spirit that's appearing to us other people believe It's like a recording in time that something happens major in a house Say a murder was committed or something horrendous like that and it almost record that the building records the event And when you go back there, you're not actually seeing the ghost that can you can interact with you You're actually seeing a recording of it and sometimes people are there at that precise moment and other times they're not I'll give you a quick example. We've got a near Bristol there's a place called Chew Valley Lake and There's a story about the girl that walks around the lake of Chew Valley Has a lot of exaggeration because they say that when the lake was filled in they she drowned in the lake Which isn't true. Chew Valley was put there right about the the lake was there in the 1950s and it was just for the water board So I can't imagine anyone was drowned in the in the lake But there certainly is a story of a girl that walks around and I've interviewed many Credible witnesses and I'm not saying they're credible. They're some of them are police officers I'm former police officer and not saying they're always credible But I met a couple of police officers and they said that they were Patrolling at the time and they said all I can say is I saw it like a hologram saw this girl She was wet dripping wet and walking up the road and they they saw it so one can only take Their account on things and think well They must have been awake at the time because they were patrolling and they couldn't have been hallucinating but Other people said it's only on a specific date. You see her and that's when Back in time. She apparently drowned. So it's like a recording I feel a bit like Do you remember Ali Ali G? Yeah, I want to say So rich do ghosts Actually Begin with G That would be incredible. I met Ali G once. I'll never forget that. He's great. He is. Yeah. Yeah Go on tell us about that Not ghost hunting. It was my day's nightclub in and he was at a nightclub in Bristol and he was you know doing his He's he's I forget the name of it the one he does the main impression But it was great, you know, he's he's he's a laugh a bit It'd be fantastic to take him out actually just for the comedy value Yes Comedy gold and it goes so quick. I mean There's probably our young friends out there listening to this and I don't really know who Ali Ali G is and yet as one of those, um I don't know if you call it a bastions of British comedy over the years that Have shaped all of us certainly shape When I'm when I'm writing my books. I'm I'm drawing upon Monty python and um, yeah Rick mail and you know just this kind of way of Being funny which is not necessary just telling a telling a joke but the well, I actually was on a comedy podcast about ghosts because um We were actually having a joke about ghosts and everything else and they said um, well, will you come on it? They said um, you're you're very serious about it I said no, I'll come on and have a have a good laugh about it You know and and joke about it because I believe everything I believe every subject we've gone to mental health later But I do believe that every subject you you can laugh at and have fun with sometimes as long as it's done in a in a in a good way, you know yes, exactly and um There's lots of things in life that people believe in and It I think it comes down to that expression. There's now as weird as folk Yeah Um, very much so very much When you hear the stories that people tell and the people you meet Um, I mean I've traveled all around the world visiting different cultures and seeing what they believe And it really does come home that's saying that there's nothing weird as folk You know, it it makes life interesting. It's the the tapestry of life as they say Do you think it becomes a bit cult like for people? Or there it does there. I mean I have come across that I I actually did a An event and I went out and I said I wanted to um, probably get a group of people together maybe to do Do events because I didn't go into that in the end But I went out and I ended up meeting the coven of Witches and all sorts of people that were were deeply involved in it and believing in it and that kind of Makes you realize that there there there can be that element to it, which I'm certainly not involved in but um, You know, you can get that and the difficulty with the subject is because you're talking about life after death and You know, there's there's the there's the beliefs in it. So you've got to be respectful of that But again, there is the kind of uh, cult element of it I mean, I know you talk a lot about um, Illuminati and and all the conspiracy theories and I love those things as well, you know And that's something that I read a lot about because some of the places I go I mean there's a place that I go is very haunted and it actually One of the people that were there were actually part of the freemasons and there was all sorts that went on There's hells cave as well where all sorts went on where the rich and famous You know, they they had a prostitutes in the tunnels all horrendous things that that went on and you think well There's something in all this, you know, what's going on, you know Yes, exactly and um If I can just tell a little anecdote I worked in Mozambique for six months teaching street children And we got to travel around Mozambique quite a lot and one of the places we went to was this sort of Highly religious mountain And there were caves in the bottom of it and this sort of stuff So we rocked up there as um What was our official role? We were development instructors. Yeah very grandiose Title as if as if, you know Africans can't look after themselves um But we went to this mountain and we the the local witch doctor came out to meet us And then we proceeded through all these um religious sites And all of them were Let's just say open to extreme interpretation The first one for example, we we stopped by a sort of stagnant pool And the witch doctor reached in his pocket and brought out some grains of rice And he just sprinkled sprinkled them on the pool And then in about 30 seconds All these bubbles started to go And you know, if you if you literally knew no better you think oh my what Yeah, someone someone's trying to communicate with us and The next one would be I don't know it'd be like a drip Coming down off the rocks that they that they would pray to as if this is some medium to the other the other side and I just say this friends for the sake of interest Is you can get a very modernized Sub-Saharan African person or in my case Mozambican. They're working for an NGO or a charity They they dress In western ways. They talk the talk they jump on a I don't know Honda motorbike to go home Um, they're they're on the program with you. So they're talking about, you know, we incorporate or trying to incorporate science So we're talking about like AIDS and HIV and this kind this kind of stuff anyway Um, and of course the other thing is religion. So they're practicing Christians When we got in that cave You just saw a change come over them where the real true self came out And suddenly this this woman who was one of our workers She's stripping her top off and she's trying to get under these drips Yeah, so all the christianity. That's all just And this is what I found as well when I went to these countries is that The the missionaries bought christianity and and all the various religions we know from the west to these places And um, you know, you'd like to say once you strip away that and they and they can be honest to themselves Then so often you find that they uh go back to their traditional beliefs I'm probably having a bit of a paranormal moment with my uh screen here. Can you bear with me once I just adjust something? Yeah, well, you do that.  It was and I remember him saying to me look him in the eye and think chris Do you think I should go to the witch doctor? Someone's put a curse on me. I'm like, no, you've just got a bad infection. It's the tropics We come from europe, but it's You know or scandinavia.  This is someone that had grown up from two years old in You know in in in den mark. It's Just I think I think that's the problem with this voodoo and and the kind of things that go on in a voodoo and all the different Beliefs that go on in these countries that the belief system, you know, if you I mean if you go back in time I mean I I do a lot of history on witchcraft and a lot of the women were just persecuted because they'd go around to a house Knock on a door and and beg for money and if somebody gave money they'd say well I put a curse on you and that was so strong the belief of people in those days that they believed it so much They literally have a heart attack and I think that is that the belief in it can be the dangerous part although there are things I've seen which even I kind of think well, you know, what's going on here and You know, I tend to stick more with ghosts and people seeing ghosts and their beliefs in ghosts but You know, there are occasions when you think oh wow, that's that's a bit Bit weird a bit strange, you know yeah, we're very um judgmental aren't we in In my case in England because we we look at this and we call it all voodoo nonsense blah blah blah, but I remember once walking down a pavement and there was a ladder on the pavement And I thought ah Stupid superstition don't don't walk under. Well, I walked under that ladder and that afternoon it cost me three and a half thousand pounds I'm not prepared to say on a podcast what what happened to me, but I got into some trouble and and uh, yeah, it cost cost me and rich ever since I I can't walk under a ladder and and I'm I'm the most rational Yeah, um, and I'm trying to wean myself off at the moment saying morning mr. Magpie We've got a load of them around here and I'm just a bit OCD if I don't say it something bad might happen I think once it's been once something's happened like that Chris when you've walked under a ladder and something else happened I think it's understandable that then you're going to get a little bit. Well, hang on a minute, you know I took a chance here walked under that ladder and this happened and um, you think well, maybe I better be cautious of all these kind of beliefs and sayings At home put it in the comments. Should I have walked under that ladder? Okay, what do you think you think is nonsense? I think there's something in it Do you think it's a mental? Deficient, you know something's not not not right in your thinking let us know what what you think I'll be fascinated to hear um Yes, there's only one rule is in your comments as I always say to my son You're not allowed to refer to me as a boldy slap head Oh mate, this is this is um fascinating so we've got a situation where There's not sequer as folk We we have we have deep emotion drawn into it because it's surrounding death And we don't really understand death in In in the western world we we think that we lose people when I'm always saying you can't lose anyone We're carbon molecules. We just change form. We're beautiful. You know, it's we're just changing to something beautiful which which is what was meant by um, I think it was um Einstein when he said about you know that we go on he didn't actually mean that we go on as ghosts or anything but we come back as another form and I think that's a nice thing to think and I always think that that Even if there isn't an afterlife in in all the kind of thoughtful things that people like to think about You know, the fact is I know that one day at least I'll be in the same state as my parents or people that've you know gone by and Yeah, I I think we do shy away from it in the western world. Um, we do tend to not speak about it Um, and and that's very very common amongst the western world Yes, you've got to embrace death as part of the beautiful circle of life It's that simple your mate or your mother or your love with them, you know, they're still here folks.  Of course, you're going to be upset when someone died, you know, of course, but I mean Sorry, I'm talking a lot, mate. That's when I talk a lot is because I'm fascinating. It means I've got a great great guest but Uh, the other day I was doing some concreting with my son and we're out there building a bike shed and A leaf blew by as we were doing it. We had our trials out And he looked to me he went, oh daddy There goes grandad, you know, how beautiful What beautiful way that the lad sat for life now of not going on the doom and gloom and the wear in the black and the My my son did the same man. He saw he saw something and said that that's granny That's granny. I'm saying hello and I thought, you know, it's it's wonderful when they give that child gives that kind of Innocent thing and and like you say doesn't look at it in the doom and gloom and has that kind of belief And I think the thing is I'm very caught. I'm very conscious of the fact that I'm a skeptic and I go into this but I'm also very conscious that Beliefs are very sacred to people. So, um, you know, it's like, um A child's belief in father for the Santa Claus and if children listen, there is a Santa Claus Then, you know, it's like children's belief in fairies and all that goes back into the past It's someone said there's not No, I don't think they have no no just if But um with with ghosts, I mean, I think people Need to believe in something they need to build they need to know And if if often when people see a man say, I'm a skeptic. I can explain it like this. I mean, you probably know of You've probably heard of Richard Dawkins when he's done the The god elusia, you know, the the one of the fantastic book because I was brought up and I was indoctrinated by religion So I don't understand where he's coming from.  There's no belief I think people are fearful of that. They need to have something, you know, they need to have something that they can believe in Oh, exactly before I came on the show today. I've been sitting on the bed with my notepad And I've got a wonderful book. It's actually a two-part book and it's called the um oh I can't remember its exact name, but it's like the dictionary of the ancient scriptures And it tells you what the words in in for example the bible what they really mean Like how they're not meant to be taken literally so for example, um bread You know When you go to church Your vicar's there telling you that jesus like broke this bret and it's all literal Yeah, and and you look you literally lose The whole message there. What what is saying is bread is um It's like spirit information from heaven. So it's it's like the source creator Universe god, whatever you want to call it. It's that it's it's talking to you. I eat bread information from From heaven Fascinating like the term israelites doesn't mean what we think it is. It's not a people It's a state, you know, these are all states of Development probably He's probably like the book by p manly. He was actually a freemason and he's gone back in the 1920s um, but he actually did a lot about the ancient beliefs and and all that about the You know going back to the egyptians and going back and all the different Um forms of freemasonry and stuff like that and all that's fascinating as well Yes, exactly. Um Just going to get him up on the screen here so people can see Once it's quite a if you see a photo of him, he does look quite a frightening character when you see um, see him when he was young Yes, he does look a bit like he could be playing a Vampire in a in a in a film or something. Yeah, was he I think he was an honoree 33 Yeah, um degree mason, wasn't he? um, but this is where it gets fascinating because When we when I look at stuff rich, I don't look at it like in the minutiae because you can't make sense of stuff If you get stuck in a weeds arguing about the if the world's flat You you miss so much. Yeah, and With the whole let's just say like the moon landings thing I'm not I don't care if like the flag is fluttering. That's not where it's at. You're not What I'm interested in is that NASA um The national socialist scientists or the german scientists in the war were desperate to try to put a rocket into orbit Obviously, there's many scientists are at the same time in in California You had these young american kids and they were desperate to get a rocket into into this You know magical thing called called space and At the same time they all come to the conclusion like we ain't going to do this Not you you can't put fossil fuel in a tin can and get it out of orbit You it So they went to the dark side. They started to look at the esoteric side Is is something, you know, can we glean something through hidden knowledge? and then of course operation paperclip was where they brought the The Germans over to America and gave them amnesty from from war crimes to work on the rocket program Which then became obviously nasa. So these two groups of esoteric Esoterica ists, you know, these these occult occult believers came together and that's nasa So that's your basis for starting to understand the space program not like, you know Yeah, cubic meters of fuel and and gravity and no, it's it's to understand that it it really You know the rockets have got the checkerboard on haven't they the masonic um masonic Yeah, the symbol the the checkerboard and fluorine and everything else that goes with them some of the lodges and that yeah yeah the whole Freemason's things fascinating because Clearly something's going on there on a global Plain scale But I just want to say I don't think like my mate that goes down the local lodge is up to any shenanigans You know, I think they have a great time. They love they're doing it for company and um, I don't think They massively get this secret knowledge simply because Well, I'm like you I look at when when you were talking about the People in Hollywood the stars doing all these different signs and you know doing all that and everything else I mean, I know they say in sign language that means love and they didn't need a hidden hand There's so much of it and and like you I was thinking yeah, it's it's happening quite often and um, you know that they're You know, whether it's a fad they're going through or what it's certainly a very common trend that's going on and Message it seems to be um been brought to us Yes, I think the whole hollywood thing and the music industry is There's so many fascinating creative talents out there there's You just go to an open mic night and you see people that should have a bloody record deal You know just playing acoustic guitar or something And you've got so many of these individuals That they get to a glass ceiling they they can't go any higher because there's just so many with that talent and then of course the The industry comes and says right we'll rich we'll let you through you got to start like joining our um You know join in our club mate and you've got a sign here in Doing the hidden hand in there. Yeah and then Why if anyone's saying why could what why do they need to well it's because the My personal belief is the mental heads that are trying to control everything this small group of You know greet and let's just call them greedy little men probably a few women in there as well. They They want The music industry to be pushing the dark side. It's surreptitiously You know, I know it's when I went to glasbury. They started to put horns On the stages, you know, they started to you started to see the masonic symbolism In everything they started to get American artists, which were Glassberries like a folk festival and they're suddenly getting these number one American artists and But they were saying about mr. Evis when they they were saying that he was They were some arguments that he's a freemason and there's all this stuff going on. I mean, I I do know Michael evens his daughter. So I know that they're they're quite an ordinary family So I don't know if that's any true for that. I'll say that, you know, but um There there was a lot on the stage. There was a lot of symbolism. I you know, I noticed that as well Well, it's Pyramid stage on a late line With thousands of adoring people pouring their energy into these what what in scriptures they'd call false idols And Somewhere in there, it's demonic It that this the whole setup of You know, it's why when Stephen King was a struggling school teacher And his scripts get his, you know, manuscripts just kept getting chucked in a bin by publishers And they wrote carry A highly, you know arguably satanic document And he got a phone call from his um His agent went right Stephen you better sit yourself down. They've offered you in advance So he's thinking what like, you know $250 or something went $300,000 What's the name the one that writes the harry potter JK Rowling. Yeah, again and folks out there. No, I'm not trying to say Joe JK Rowling is a satan. It's not at all. She's a wonderful Bloody good good author. But of course, what's the theme? It's a cult And it's put out of very junior Junior level And all of this ties in it just it You know, you know what your movies and listen to songs about I woke up in the morning I smiled at the sun because life is perfect and so am I and I want for nothing. I need nothing I just need to express love to my fellow human human beings and be grateful for this time on the planet. Oh, no I think it is funny because I I try to be sceptic and open-minded with the the Ghosts and when I people say to me about the Ouija board, I mean immediately everyone gets Fearful of using the Ouija board and I say that to me The Ouija board is nothing but them so they're unconsciously moving the glass and I I don't think there's anything more than that to it But then I but when you go on to kind of like the fact of secret societies and other things going on and esoteric and all the other things I deep down know that there there is more to that, you know, which we don't always know about and I know when I've gone and done I mean they leave me alone in haunted places and some of these places have been Quite well to do and one of the places is the stately home and he was friends with prince charles and all that and Some of the things in there the books in the library very occult and very much into To all this kind of thing freemasonry and talking about it and stuff. So, um, you know, it doesn't doesn't It's not that incredible to think that there is something behind the scene that that we just The ordinary guy doesn't know about, you know Yeah, massive and we've all been there. I mean I went for God I went for A long period in my life as incredibly naive and it's what led to me almost destroying myself through addiction Is I just couldn't see the right and right? You know right in front of me and it It took her let's just call it a certain global event where, um Aeroplanes started to fly into things that they weren't supposed to or allegedly Uh, that That along with recovering from addiction that the two sets of knowledge started to say Bloody alchemy you've been living in a Frickin dream world mate. It life is not Life is just not what you thought You thought it was It's it's funny to say that chris because I was brought up in a very religious movement my my family were very religious and um I didn't find out till I was about 40 that the father brought me up I had my suspicions, but I found he wasn't my real Burr father and that he was actually You know, I'd live this lie believing that I was been and they were my half brothers and sisters As soon as they found out I was the milkman's child saying they all disown me They didn't nothing to do with me and they're very they tend to be very devout religious people Which is why I don't have a lot of time for people that claim to be Christians, you know Sometimes not I mean there are good ones, but my particular family weren't that christian about things and um, I said to Set in my wife at the time it was like I was like Tarzan in the jungle I I got into addiction and I suddenly come out of everything and started to say wow the life I've been living is not as it is this you know, I've been living in this dream world and um I'm starting to awaken to things and starting to get involved in What I do with the ghosts and everything else and um, it's opened so many doors for me as well, which has made me think You know, is there such a thing?  It just seems amazing the doors are open Yes, sorry rich. I'm just trying to get something on the screen here in my mind Wondered for a sec. Did you say you've been through addiction or? Yeah, I have yeah, yeah, yes That would explain the mental health work that you do or advocacy Yeah, tell us about it. Yeah, I I I mean I I kind of went for a bad divorce But when I got away from the religion I was brought up in they were very And I think I think it's okay for me to say the religion without Pausing any problems for anything but my family my family were brought up in a Salvation Army, which is very very Deep religion, you know, they they They they go around playing their their brass instruments at Christmas collecting collecting from people and where I was brought up it was very very deep very sort of A cult like and everything and it didn't seem to be The way it should be and there was things that went on there That's all I can say is things went on there that shouldn't have gone on and I reported those things And when I become a police officer, I even made sure that they were reported again And for all the things that I came across in my life I then turned to Alcon I went way over the top with it and I think it was when I met my second wife, it was It was like a amazing moment. I just suddenly realized I'd hit rock bottom And I met my Idea wife that I'm with now and suddenly I got on my track and I've not looked back But um, I've always been aware of that addictive side because it's always there, you know I think you I think you've had a recent problem where you've had Some pain, haven't you from a accident that you've had and you said that you were on Is it um Co colder model or those kind of something the much much much much stronger mate. Yeah more morphine something like that Yeah Yeah, and I have to be careful with morphine and and tablets like that because I feel that the addictive side it was like um I've just got the addictive side in me that everything has got to be one or the other and I found that if I took painkillers I like the feel of it as you do and you go down that road and you you end up thinking oh, this is good You know, I don't need to feel that pain at the moment. I don't need to feel that I don't need to feel anything, you know, this makes me feel good, but it's not it's it's false It's not real And um, I learned that, you know, you have to face pain. You have to face your demons You have to face the things that rightly are wrong. You have happened to you in the past And um, that's what I did and and it did help me when I became a police officer because often I'd be taking Because I always believe that when you when I did my job was rolling it I believe that there were other colleagues that took the uniform. They said I'm wearing a police uniform I'm god, you know, and there were colleagues like that, you know, they really took advantage of it But I always believed that when I was a police officer once I had A person in custody They've taken the punishment you treated them just like you treat anybody else and I remember one said to me What can I do with my life? You know, what can I do? And I found it was a moment I could just turn around him and say turn it around I did, you know So, um, yeah, I've been been through that myself Oh Yes, it's a great wake up when you when you get to the point and you're downward spiral You can't go any lower Set to lose even more than you've lost already and then you then you suddenly get it Suddenly get it and a great metaphor for understanding like the prescription medication thing is When people talk about god and the devil And I'm talking purely metaphor or allegorically here folks I don't think there's a guy with a bloody Spear or a trident sitting on a one cloud and there's a guy of a whisper. No it's about When you take that pain medication Then when you start to take advantage of it because it makes you feel good This this is the allegory. This is the devil coming in, you know telling you. Yes. All right And physically on your body, it stops you vibrating at the correct frequency because like you say it's it it's false and it's If we want to use the word god, it's taking you away from From god and as as your As you process that mentally you start to Go into a negative energy So for example When I took this pain medication, so there's like thinking about having a beer You know, oh a beer would be nice. You know, I could go out with you know And it's whoa and and and that's it is you start to go to the the The your lower self if we're talking in spirit spiritual terms, you're going to your animal self You're starting to look for instant gratification rather than living in your higher self and making that connection with something extremely powerful and Fascinating what you This is why I'm really quite sorry rich. I'm really protective about addiction.  It's like I appreciate it. I I get it But I I never did anything wrong. I just went through an experience Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, and it's experience that off the back of that. It's it's put me in paradise. I I live You know the perfect perfect life Um, I'm not talking materialistically here folks. I'm no I I I know I don't know if it's You know, I think people go for it in other ways, but I think if you've really been for addiction That's when you really appreciate and really recognize. I know when you were speaking to to robbie I could identify straight away with both of you what you were on about because That's when I think I contacted you as well because I thought wow, you know that that that's how I feel, you know And um, there's moments when you're thinking I'm so alive. I feel so alive, you know And I remember a cancer scene to me When I first started to give up the drink He said you're not sober yet And that was very interesting those words you're not sober yet and I said well, I've given up the drink He said that you're not sober yet Your mind is not clear of all the other things and and I and I and now I can look back and say you were right But I am now, you know Um, and and I but I'm always aware I'm always aware that it's there You know, I'm always thinking to myself and anyone that's going through it. I would always say Be aware of of the fact that you know, we're all going to get those days when it's hell I liked it when you got in the barrel of water actually because um That cold water that morning.  Oh, yeah and my great My great uncle, um, you know, he always said to me like, you know, just um Get up get on with it and he was somebody was in the in the first world war, you know, went for all the trenches Um, it went for everything and uh, he understood, you know, and he was like a father figure to me Hmm Sorry, excuse me yes, it's It's very simple to make The powerful connection that that gives you a paradise life I don't mean a life without challenges folks.  No just a quick turn your shower at the end of it Start turning a bit cold bear it as long as you can you build up. It's so simple. It it takes Probably 20 to 30 seconds of cold water And it enables you it it brings you back to your hunter gatherer your primal self when you would have lived in rain Or you know, if you were lucky you might have found a cave, but it's there for a reason, you know Our body processes everything and and and through Evolution it cleverly Adopt adopts it for the good the same with fasting Oh, why do you want to go about because our ancestors would have gone without food for weeks at a time possibly when they're moving between hunt, you know gathering ground I'll say gathering Um And so that little cold shower in the morning puts me in paradise. It's so everyone can do it everybody I have the green smoothie at lunchtime because I want my body I haven't got my little ph strips. Well, I want my body to to be 7.25 alkalinity or acid, you know Like my hunter gatherer ancestors would have been for thousands upon thousands of Of years and again takes about Six minutes to make a greens movie anybody can do it. So yes fascinating rich it's it's all fascinating this this rich tapestry of life That's hidden from us from birth hidden from up through our education hidden by the the Construct that we're putting by the mainstream media, you know that Six o'clock is east enders or whatever and then we got strictly and then we go back to work We do you know possibly a boring job that we don't Really like but we got strictly tonight. We've got football at the weekend and you stay in that little mini matrix Yeah, you you do and um, and I think also had on that I mean not saying that that I don't want to knock people that are religious or believe in anything that Where that religion came in was you know, that also was another thing that was kind of almost restricted to me, you know, it was kind of Making me think and I was rebellious and I thought why am I rebellious? and I realized part of the reason I was rebellious because My father that the father brought me up. It was he's religion and I I wasn't he's real Biological son. So that probably was in me any rate to be That rebellious on it, but I questioned it and I and I looked it and thought But none of the people question it. They're all in there with their uniforms on praying not behaving As christians should sometimes and none of them are actually saying well, why am I doing this? Why if I was in china? I'd be doing something different if I was you know, none of them were questioned there And I think questioning is good, you know that you question Why do I have to watch that east enders? You know at night or why do I have to? You know do this certain thing or have tea dinner at a certain time and you know and and look outside the box And think of life. You know, I think I think it really does wake you up Yes, I'd say richard and friends at home. We're not knocking anybody here, but this is just a conversation Um If someone gets up goes to work and they want to watch this strictly and that's that yeah, absolutely no problem without What's where in fact to be honest is a little bit bit of me that's a bit envious the problem is for for rich and I is that like that That matrix that we're in that constrate it nearly killed us it something wasn't right about it and When you you're going to die through substance misuse whether that be alcohol prescription meds whatever You've got to work out some answers for yourself. You've got to get yourself out of there You've got to start thinking and putting the puzzle together And what the scriptures do is give you all the answers But here's the thing I think it was Jesus's disciples said to him You know why you don't Why don't you just tell us how we get to spiritual? You know, how do we make this connect and he said He said i'm giving you milk because you're not ready for the meat and This is the thing about religion as it keeps you in that milk stage. It's it's it's not what religion It's not what the scriptures are about they're not meant to be taken literally You know, you can't be believing that a woman can have a baby without having sex. It's just it's You know, you can't be believing that a man walked on water. That's not what it's about. It's allegorical you know The term is relies is it refers to People when they're sort of having their awakening that they they've sort of Stepped over the threshold of the thinking threshold. They're starting to realize just something bigger. So he is relies they they They had had a mass exodus to egypt egypt was like your thinking ground You know it to put it in modern Terms that's like your people that are on youtube because they're looking for these videos that can just give them something more You know just give them some something more Moses it's not a bloke Moses is uh, I think literally translated is is your your moral Self your moral compass um So when he raises his staff The staff stands for uprightness, you know being upright For example, when you meditate you sit there you sit upright That's when the the the answers come to you and he He puts his staff forward in parts. Was it the red sea? Symbolic of the blood of christ Not a man christ is a is a is a chemical substance that's produced in the brain serotonin I believe and and also DMT and when you when you get the answers in life and you live the good diet And your thoughts are pure and all you have is love for your fellow man You enter this different stage where your brain makes different chemicals And so when he's parting the sea he's parting the blood of christ to let let These individuals that have done the thinking Enter the promised land. It's not a place. It's not in palestine for crying out loud or Um, it's a state of being they call it the land of milk and honey milk being Uh, like serotonin being like a milky substance DMT being like a honey likes like like likes, you know, they knew more about the brain back then than we Than than we do now. It's all been cut out of the curriculum on purpose because they don't want people to know this rich, do they? You know um It's utterly Utterly fascinating. He's got his staff and it's got a snake on it and they're they're praying to this golden calf That represents They're praying to a false idol to get their answers in life and moses And I think that's so true often when you see people in the church there was a vicar that was Very very good when he turned around to the people in the church and he said This church is dead and I want you to see the corpses in the church and he held a mirror up to the the people in the church And they looked at what we come we come on a sunday. We do this we do that No, no, no, we don't really grasp what it's all about, you know He was quite a rebellious vicar, but you know, it was and and that's that's what I found with Looking I always looked people said to me I question too much. I look into deeply and I think people that are Have an addictive personality Are very serious thinkers. I think a lot of us are we tend to Be on the same wavelength for most. I mean like, you know, and you do think like deep deep about things and about and then sometimes That was where we probably were victim of our own If does that make sense the addiction kind of came because it was frightening sometimes to actually know that You know you question things and there might be this answer and that answer and you would stand out differently to everyone And you're frightened of that. So addiction was the easy cop out, you know, well, let's get let's forget it I don't want to think, you know, I just want to get drunk. I want to take whatever drug and I just don't want to think I don't want to communicate with people Because if I do, you know, and and and I realized that, you know, I didn't need to be afraid anymore I didn't need the dutch courage. I could say these things and believe these things And talk about these things.  So Here's how it is God's up there, right in a void because now there's nothing Is a bit bored He hasn't invented the PlayStation yet. So he's You know, he thinks right. What can I do? Ah I've got an idea Why don't I create life, right? You know, why don't I create a universe? And the ultimate goal of this is As life evolves very cleverly, you know through evolution chemical processes Could life become clever enough to understand it's me? You know, could life become clever enough To have the intelligence to go hang on trace this We're all universe that that That is it and What what's happened here is and I always refer to it. It's like You know If you've got two rocks on the beach And they're talking to each other and then you know the both.   You're both the same you split With humans, we don't realize that's what's happened through evolution The universe has grown us like this, but we've we've come out of the universe Through ever for evolutionary processes. We've got this Sloshy stuff in our head called a brain as a chemical There's a electromagnetism running through it because when we feed ourselves it creates this energy Uh, it allowed us to create memory cells So we could remember things and then we can look back and reflect on that memory to make sense of the world And the ultimate goal of god when he's up there bored because he hadn't got his playstation yet Is can I build something here that gets clever enough to realize it's me? and of course what happens is the the You know these corporate trillionaire Mentalists that can't experience love. So they've got no no, you know Our whole goal in life is to be loved and to love that's it, right?  They can't be like they can't hold a baby and go They don't have that feeling And so through our education they start cutting us off from this higher power Uh, which leads you to understand that you are it, you know And so our education doesn't teach us kindness empathy understanding um Nanu science to the part of you know molecular structure Simulation theory all the all this kind of stuff It teaches you that you're rich and i'm chris you wear that hat I wear mine at a like a job a jaunty angle Hey, don't you dare say that about me? Look, you know, I've got a bloody Rolex on my arm And I'm I'm a little bit better than you make No, you're me rich and I'm you with you You know, I love you and I hope you love me because I want the best for you I just want the best but What we're seeing in in you know, like in ukraine at the minute It's the ultimate cutting us off from realizing we're all the same. We're all universe and um This is enlightenment folks. This is what when you Hear the term enlightenment because we've all been brainwashed from birth.  Um And Oh Yeah, hello steve Yet the deal. Yeah, yeah How much do I get out of it? Four million No, no, no, no, no, no Make my time's worth more than that if tell them to make it 25 million and I'll consider it. Yeah Okay. All right. Cheers. Cheers Sorry, that's my accountant. Um Business issues, you know how it is Um, but yeah, what a lovely conversation rich. Thank you so much, you know It This is why you you've obviously been through childhood trauma. Um The simple fact of realizing your parents are not actually And off the bat. Yeah. I mean, I don't I don't mind a bit of people. I've got a thing called ocd as well That's less they've done. I mean, I joke about it as well I mean Catherine Tate did a very good That's why I say you can laugh about things as well And I don't mind laughing about it because more you laugh at yourself as well the more better you feel But I do have ocd and I have um, I've had that since I was a very young child through the trauma And I've had to kind of get to understand why the brain's been like that, you know, so Yeah, it's because When you're traumatized and you grow up with this childhood, you know You you desperately have a need to control things, you know What what you can control in your little mini universe because you don't want the pain You you know, you're fighting Underlying trauma and you don't even know it's there But it manifests in like right, you know, I I need to control things. I I can't let things You know The alcoves a great example, you know, I drink this I feel good. I I have control over how You know, how how how I feel gosh, but back to the ghost stuff then Rich have you ever been in a situation where you thought oh actually maybe there is some something here I'll tell you a funny story and it is a very very peculiar one. Um, I was um in a uh an old church and um There was a person with me and um, they don't normally say this kind of thing She said I keep getting the name Mary. So Mary keeps coming to mine. I said, well, that's interesting Suddenly we heard a voice out in the graveyard and and this is no word of a lie But I'll tell you the full story and then you'll understand why I looked out and he said I'm looking for me grave So we kind of I turn around to To her and said I don't think I want to open the the church door now. Perhaps he's actually Finally come across a real live ghost, but there was a house next door where um people um with um Dementious so the house next door we use the toilets there So I understood that this gentleman was probably come out from there But this was three o'clock in the morning But what was interesting is he was carrying a Oil painting and this is no word of a lie and the oil painting was the virgin Mary So where this woman had been saying I'm getting the name Mary. I thought well, that's a bit peculiar Took him back to the house and um The the ladies come to door. Do you want to use the toilet in the no, no, that's fine And I pointed to the gentleman and he just went on upstairs and the lady afterwards said to me They didn't really take much notice that that guy was out in the you know that we brought that guy back And I said, do you think we've really been with a ghost? Or walk with a ghost because um why I say that a good friend of mine was a security guard officer and he was in a an old um, it was an old uh air air force um Base and um, he was one day just at the reception there and this gentleman came up to him Immaculately dressed in the and it looked like second world war You know raf pilot And he said i'm just off to the uh my plane old chap and he said okay So he went off he thought oh, it's very strange very, you know Somebody winding me up or something and anyway, a load of people turned up to death. He said I just said they said Are you seeing the ghost? They said and he and he said to me. He was just like you and I physical body so, uh Have I seen a ghost? I mean who knows I mean, maybe I did maybe we do every day We are out and we meet people that you know, I've never really come across anything that I can Just about explain. That's what I'd say Yeah, yes, and is this a mental thing? Is it some sort of condition can we condition? You know through our life traumas perhaps we things manifest that can't can't be I mean How many children have an invisible friend? Yeah, I'm fascinating It's a very common one is that you know people say that children see ghosts, but um You know they they have the invisible friend or they see somebody and you know, I can remember as a child I mean, um, I used to stay at my great uncle's house down in devon and he had the The bedroom done exactly as his wife had it my auntie Um, because he missed her, you know, he was he missed and I used to go in there at night I used to feel scared to death. I was gonna see a ghost or something like that So, um, I can remember those feelings as a child as well. So What's that mate?  Thanks mate Oh, yeah after the podcast Sorry mate, um Yes Tell us what it's like because this is kind of a fact.  They want things to happen And my particular experience and I I've got I've signed no contracts. I can say this my particular experience was when I went to uh, an old Is an old hippodrome. They said to me, um, you know One of somebody chucked something or threw something they said, can you just make out that was something thrown, you know And so that I believe that, you know, they are very much for the television very much for the excitement and um, you know It I would like to do a documentary maybe or something a bit more serious And that would probably be a bit better, but um these tv shows. I think you got to take them with a pinch of salt Do the Think the sort of camera crew and all that are they sort of they're healthily skeptic are they? They are very very skeptical, but a lot of people are skeptical because they Are afraid. I mean I I took a radio station out to A theater where the ghost apparently is seen in the dressing room And I took these two djs out and I challenged them that one of them was going to spend the night alone in this Um dressing room and they were absolutely fine about it They were joking about it until it got to the bit where he had to be on his own in the dressing room And the light was out and he was left alone with a camera And when he was in there, he wanted to get out as quick as possible, but he was trying Trying like mad to say, you know, I don't believe in anything, you know and um try and get around it that way Oh hang on mate, got something going on here. Yeah, thank you Sorry, some people say this this studio's possessed Um What um with the mental health side of things Are you involved in anything specific or are you you're just uh, um simply just bring awareness to it. Um, I've I've Interviewed many people. I mean what came along in my life was um A long time ago. I I was leaving a my girlfriend at some I was leaving her house and um, there was a young lad in a phone box and He was crying his eyes out and I said to me, okay, mate as you do, you know And he said it's drugs and I thought, you know, it was heavy drugs and he said no, I've taken an overdose And um, I took over on the call the smaran wanted to keep him on the phone and I said no He needs an ambulance. I didn't know anything about first aid and I sat with him um In the curbside and sadly I knew he wasn't going to make it And um, I heard a few days later that he died and I said my words were he's last words to me was I wish I'd never done this And it stayed with me and I said it in the the the core, you know, what he said at the Coroner's core and the parents said thank you for that. They said because It made us realize he didn't mean to do it You know that those words were said and that that stayed with me for life and it's always been There that you know So many people pass people by or don't listen to people when they've got mental illness and um, I think it kind of Made me very determined that I would bring awareness to it through. I'm often on radio or I'm Often I'm in magazines about ghosts and things and I thought well Can I use that time also to kind of just bring awareness? You know, and that's what I'm hoping to do to do a podcast to interview People that have been through it and various things and that's what I'm looking to to to bring soon really Oh mate, you've been through a lot. That's um Pretty full on hey and you you dealt with it Ab admirably it's a bit like have you seen that? Well, there's probably a few videos out there, but that there's one video. I think it's called the bridge and it's about the um Is it the golden gate bridge in san francisco that that big orange thing? And there's one dude. He's just got a camera on it 24 7. He's got a camera set up outside his house and it just films the bridge and He'll zoom in on people that it just they start to loiter on the bridge and you just know that they're going for a mental health crisis and they're sort of next thing they step up to the The the wall, you know, the yeah, whatever it's called along and they're there Sort and then the next thing they're climbing over it and and some of them jump Some of them get grabbed by people and they they they they talk. It's a Friends if you're out there. I don't don't watch it if you're in a bad mind state but um there's one chap that he jumped And as soon as he'd fallen 5 10 feet he realized. Oh my god. I don't want to die Yeah, unfortunately he he hit the water and and and he survived and they somehow got a boat out to him and and um and they rescued him and I'd just say to anyone out there you know life's not meant to be easy easy it's meant to be a challenge and sometimes it does come on full on but Everybody is loved You know, you're you're loved so much more than than you know um, I love you all my crew love you I'm sure rich loves you And and this is not the way it will pass Yeah, tough times pass It's just a challenge that's been sent when you get over it you'll be uh I don't want to say a better person because you're perfect now, but you'll you'll start to get it all in perspective and and um Tough times never last friends, you know they never last you you I often think they're like clouds that float Thoughts are like clouds that floating by and um, they will go and the sun will come forward in and you will like you say you will learn from from those experiences and you will you will be better you you would you know, you will Find a better time again Then and it's just worth keeping that in mind and that that lesson was those words when that that said to me I wish I'd never done it, you know that that said it all, you know Yes It happens quite a lot in the military um The chap I shared a room with in northern island He's always used to be telling me about his His misses as we would term it back in the day. Well, I miss it, you know, and I remember him saying She's upset because we never get any time together. I'm always on deployment, you know last year I had three months at home and we're just married and and um The next thing I knew when we got back from northern island he um He's taking his life in in in the car, you know, he gassed himself not not far from where I lived and and um Another chap when I was on hms invincible was this young officer And he was from somewhere obscure some like like I don't know Tasmania or somewhere and He came up and there's always that thing in the military that if you're in the marines You're kind of held in like quite high regard by your fellow services and they quite like want to be your mate and all this sort of stuff and and um Some naval officers will be like dickheads, you know Treat you like a piece of whatnot and but he wasn't we had this job to do on ship one day I think we're moving some Bloody missiles or something and he's like all right fellas Right listen, I ain't gonna tell you what to do.  Just this this is a job Let's just crack on it. I just remember thinking what a lovely Bloke, you know, what what a nice if all officers could be like that It would be just a wonder much much better job to be in it Bloody hell He hung himself like about three days later. There's me thinking what a wonderful guy. I really like this officer You know and and he didn't know that he didn't know that I'm thinking that he's obviously in such a They couldn't find his next next of kin because he came from somewhere Obscure and where'd another chap um Shot himself whilst on guard duty and the rumor was that he'd been taking steroids and And that someone had said to him oh your training team have found out your your and he was so Petrified of the constant, you know, I mean something so stupid like that gives a You know I I doubt I mean because my job before this I worked in Kind of like a government while it was like a job center kind of role and I I used to Help some of the ex-military get back into to to work and everything and some of the struggles They went through and I had a lot of friends from that and Going for awful things and you know the mental health and um And everything else which um You know, which I realized they they needed that help that support, you know getting back into I mean And again in the police force you get it as well You know you still get that kind of um thing but not so much but more in the military And that's why I always hold my my hat up to to you guys in the military and what you've done and what you've been through and And it's funny because I a friend of mine was a marine and he turned around to me one day and said You know what he said you you you're um, you've been through a lot in in in life And I said, yeah, I said but not what you've been through and he said it doesn't matter He said I can see in your eyes that you've got pain And I thought that was really uncanny. I don't know if you've ever come across that but he could really Read all those the you know the things and and he was a great um support Yeah, when I was in Hong Kong mate, we we used to work in this bizarre computer company selling memory chips And I never sold a single one because I didn't speak Cantonese that well And the boss didn't really care. He just wanted some white white western faces in his office So that when customers flew in from abroad It looked like he was billy big bollocks in the in the memory chip business Like I've got all these staff and half of them were westerners with Anyway After like a 12 hour day. I think we used to work. It was ridiculous um We used to go and Hit a nearby Daipai Dong Which is a out outdoor restaurant and the Incredible you sit there in the tropical heat Tucking into bloody lobster and crab and drinking these liter bottles of you know Sing-sao or whatever that and and just chatting to the people around you and One chap leaned over and introduced himself gave me his business card always presented in a in Well Chinese culture with both hands as a sign of respect and you take it with both hands and it said Laurie Kong triad police So I was like fascinated, you know, we we cracked up. We met these guys several times and One time one of them turned to me and said uh quissa This is mr. Lee Mr. Lee He's a chemist And I turned and there's this chap like in in all the traditional Chinese garb Which you clearly obviously don't get these days, but it wasn't that long ago that everyone in You know the workers in hong kong war the black pyjamas and the big straw sun hat and this sort of thing And this guy's got a chong som which is your you beautifully woven You know garment or whatever you call it comes down comes down to the feet and so My friends this triad copper says, um, yeah, uh, mr. Lee want to know can he read your hand? I'm like, yeah, sure. Of course massively sceptical. I'm I'm 26 years old.  Lee say, um Um You have some very difficult years ahead of you But don't worry When you reach 30 years old Everything will be good, right? I didn't think anything of it. Of course. I didn't then of course. I went through the horrors of chronic addiction Yeah, um for the best part of two and a half years or whatever it was and I remember My 30th birthday so the you know, he said 30 years old I was on a beach in Mozambique surrounded by my fellow, um uh development instructors Celebrating my birthday a few beers and Nice food and they gave me this beautiful statue and And I just thought back to mr. Lee. I thought He had my number didn't he? I hadn't even spoke to the bloat. He he could see from the way I carried myself probably I was trying to Crack loads of jokes or what he could see that deep down there. Something's not right there. Yeah, yeah And I was gonna go through the mill, but I was gonna come out of it and Incredible, you know There's a there's a lesson there for all of us friends, isn't there There is definitely. Yes Let's talk about the police. Come on. Um, am I allowed to talk about the police or they the they the enemy? I'm not I can't remember Um, I I I did a I did several years in the police. I mean I dealt with all sorts from there I've dealt with um domestic abuse sort of one of the worst things you deal with um sometimes, um I There isn't a lot to say really. I mean, um, it's just general Beat duty and um, you know Getting caught out for various things. Um Mostly, um, you know, a lot of the time it was um Saturday nights, they didn't look the same when you were in police uniform as they did when you were out at uniform You know every Friday night. It was everyone was um crazy and drunk and when you were the other way around you were crazy and drunk enjoying it But no, it was it was a it was a good experience. I I um found that I got disillusioned very quickly because you know, it's It was getting more then when I was there that the paperwork was to come in More and more and police officers weren't able to weren't able to do the things they wanted to do and I think officers were frustrated And I think that's true And then there was as you do an every job.  I said no he hasn't I can't see his hand on the phone Well, I saw he's out, you know, and he always get one that was power happy and that's unfortunate with everything because I also then went on to airport security and I remember doing that job and there were people there that were very Power happy and used to search people's bags and think they were They were the queens, you know, they they could just do anything so um but It was a job, you know and but it was I I did take it seriously I mean, I think I think I've always had that kind of Help inside. I think that's come from with that young lad That I went in because I wanted to help people I wanted to make a difference And then I realized it's not quite like that. You can't make that difference You can try, you know, you can try and be the best you are you are at that job, but um, You know, it's um, it's it's not quite like like you think Yes, I just want to take this opportunity to thank all the wonderful police officers out there um When I was struggling I remember my parents calling the police on me because my behavior was It wasn't violent rich, but they didn't understand it and they didn't understand why I was getting so acutely upset It's like I was going through so much. Don't don't criticize me anymore. Please, you know Don't don't and I remember I was in my parent my dad and he had a stepmother at the time and and um Actually I think it's in It's in my memoir 14 nights. So that one up up there folks the middle one and My dad had come back from the pub He started to tell this story about we had a local A bit like a feral sort of family, you know, I think all villages have their their, you know There's like seven brothers and one girl and And they're all into crime and and they're always up in court and this sort of thing and What happened is one of them had lost his driving license um He'd been up in court got got banned for driving and One night these the boys were walking to the pub Don't know how many of them doesn't really matter, but the police officer pulled up alongside him wound his window down and I don't know. They all had they all had names like wane and wade and and and he went all right wade Nice to see you walking meaning, you know, you've been banned from driving and They just turned on him right ripped him out that car locked him in the boot Took him up on the moors and and I don't want to say the word on a podcast But you can imagine what they that what they did this guy thought he was gonna You know, this was the end sort of thing and anyway My dad came back from the pub and he starts to tell this story But my dad doesn't know that very similar thing happened to me in hong kong where I genuinely believe one day all the triads had turned on me I worked in a nightclub as a doorman and it was run by the 14k triads over there and um One night I genuinely thought I'd been set up to be murdered And I went through the whole mental process of knowing that you're gonna die, right? This is in your first book as well, isn't it? Uh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, just in eating smoke and I'm stood there trying to like do my doorman job I just keep keep cool, right?  It's inexplicable. It's like a cold Stereo whiteness comes over you as you accept this is the the the end and Obviously, I didn't die. I I'm still here to tell the tale, but so my dad's telling this story But hey, do you hear about the boy? You know the so-and-so gang will go into the pub and this coppered and they put them in the boot and the Poor guy thought he was gonna I flip rich. I couldn't I couldn't take it. I had a plate of I don't know Omelette and chips or something on my lap and and and I just went no and and I threw it all over the floor and As I ran out the house my my stepmother jumped on the phone and calls 999.  I was just Like acutely upset and next thing, you know blue lights and sirens are wailing these cop cars are skidding to a stop outside this My father's cottage. They're smashing through the gate, right?  It's oh It's okay. We just had a call Um, someone said there was a disturbance at the house. It it it's fine and So I talked to this one of the policemen and I just explained look I've come back from Hong Kong I'm a bit broken.  You know, you've done nothing wrong. We we just want you to get better and he pulled a He pulled a card out of his pocket and it was for a rehab and he said listen he said my brother was addicted to drugs and um These people really really helped him and he gave me the card and then nodded to his mates and and they were off and and this is Yeah, I mean, this is exactly what you know makes a good policeman and and um, That's exactly where people like ourselves that have been through these things Can come into a job like that and can give that kind of support and help, you know, so I didn't want to Finish carry on saying what you were saying on the end of that. No, that's just it Imagine had that been a different copper one who's driven by his ego because The forces whether they're military or play they they recruit from baser in ego pool. Yeah angry young people that want to prove themselves or Um, you know, it could have been someone's so different. It could have been a right.   That's against the law.    It says that they're they're they're all good because they're not and that was what shocked me was Sometimes the amount of egos in these organizations that That that shouldn't be in the job shouldn't be in that role, you know Yeah, exactly and um As a podcaster I get obviously I get about 500 messages a week, you know emails and all this sort of stuff and I have to be honest the only ones that I've just had to go Yeah, sorry, it's been from policemen and It's where they've seen something in my show They haven't understood. We just come in from the position of love.  It's da da da and it's like no The incident was irrelevant We would we were getting so much more out of it than like the minutiae of did this guy have a backpack on or and The the emails will read like right chris, you know your guests the other day And and the guest is a woman So this isn't you know, again the egos kicking in, you know, this how how dare a female police officer be Saying such things and and it's like right, you know What I want you to know is this did it and and and I think May I not have a new on my show. Sorry. Yeah, I just I've come too far in life to you know, I've just come I'm I don't need it. I don't you know I'll get one. What sorry a little You know, I'll get some military guy the other day writes to me on linkedin Calls me a joker I'm a joker because I don't believe that three freemasons got into a tin can Filled it with fossil fuel and then went across 300 000 miles of uncharted space And then when they got that, you know When they're orbiting the moon and they say right Mikey boy, you hold this baby in orbit being buzzy.  We're going to land on a planet We have no idea of the physics of or whether that craft is you know Oh, was it a super technology is going to Get you there buzz No, actually we've got less technology than a calculator. We've got to like take that baby down ourselves All right, so when you land on the moon, are you going to do some serious scientific experience here?   You know, it's going to go pretty far. Oh, don't worry about that Mikey.    I mean when I when I question some of these ghost programs and things on YouTube they show these They're kitten balls and they They kind of flash when the kitten moves them, you know, just moving them and they're saying oh, I'm talking to my auntie Hilda or I'm talking to Uncle Bertie and he's the ball's flashing. It's him speaking to me and I'm saying yeah So you're relying on your evidence on your flashing balls or I'll say something like that and I get it all the time You know if I'm if I'm a bit They're critical of those kind of things. So Yes It's not so queer as folk make they're just I mean We talk a little bit on this show about the flat earth conspiracy or theory what whatever we're going to call it and I've had people that are really big in that movement. I mean basically the top Top guy. I'm not going to say his name, but it's Asked me to come on the show and It's like I've had individuals on before and they try to tell me the earth's flat and I'm not here to like judge I think it's great that people question reality. You know question the state is quiet because um, you know Certain buildings with the number seven attached to them kind of you know We've got to be awake to to to such things and so I think it's great that people question, but It's really hard for me when I've got Um, two mates that have been right around the planet, you know Once a Randolph finds very loosely affiliated. Remember he very kindly sent me a a signed copy of his book when I ran the length of the country for for charity and Ironically it was right at the time. I just had a ticket to go and see him Go and see him speak And I think he did it in the 80s the trans globe expedition. Yeah, I think it was because I had one of the books Yeah, yeah, I think it was yeah, and then We've got I've got another another friend an sas captain um And he's was the second person to ski across Antarctica solo Literally coming in like a day behind an American chap that was was was just just ahead of him So they've clearly gone around the the the planet to a point. I mean not And of course, I've been to Antarctica. I've been on expeditions scuba diving expedition to Antarctica So when people go, Chris is just an ice wall. It's like dude. It's not it's continent Yeah, you step ashore you step onto rock It's it it's rocks. It's a whole con Yeah, yeah, but you're not allowed down there mate because the there's an army, right? There's these armed guards They're gonna come and stop No No, it's a massive continent massive The chances, you know, if anybody's seeing a small we are dropping some but it is It's like a needle in a haystack sort of scenario and there's one chap Went down there military guy and and you're supposed to get a permit for these trips, right?  He said he just got his mates to drop him off with a um a kite And he kiteskeed across amazing. Yeah, he kiteskeed across Antarctica um and his I don't know if he did arrange the plane to pick him up wherever his mates had to sail around I I don't know the the logistics of it all but when I when I say this to these individuals and and It it's like it just goes in that air and literally comes out that without Without being processed and I would call that sorry folks.  I didn't know that How does that you you this this is the problem with people when they've got this um Like you say indoctrinated or they got this deep belief and um where some people Of the church have this one way of thinking and you try to tell them this other way and and and they just won't listen and and um Then you've got somebody that and it works the other way as well when you get sceptic That's very skeptical or very scientific where they won't listen to the fact that there may be something more You know, some people are just closed-minded. I know what you mean. It's um, yeah, it's a common thing Yeah, exactly and The whole thing with a religion thing is you you you've been slipped a mickey You know you've been slipped a mickey It's not it's not what these churches are saying It's so much more and you can get so much more out of it by getting out of that narrative and You know christ it refers to a state of consciousness Um, it's not a person. I'm not saying that there wasn't a person called yashua or what what I mean It seems they tie like four narratives into one. So you've got the astral the you know solar system Equinox all this kind of stuff very quite cleverly woven into into into one story, but Essentially the the scriptures are a set of instructions For people that are ready to receive it to take you to the next you know the next level It's not it's not actually about a dude that walks on water Um and well This is life, isn't it all this knowledge hidden from us instead of understanding it instead of understanding the beauty of life that we're all We're all the same No, we go to another country. It's done nothing to us and we bomb it into the stone age Ignoring the fact we've just massacred God knows how many innocent men women and children and because our The box in the corner of our room is feeding us this, you know Continuing to slip us this mickey whilst brandishing the religious flag and you know, this is We've got god but but be a heart behind us and and um Gosh, I I hope off the back of this podcast some You know one person goes. Oh It's just one person. It's worth it. Just for that one person to kind of um, you know see more to it Yeah Gosh, so rich. What's what's next on your what are you currently doing? Have you got anything to promote please by all means? I'm gonna I'm gonna be probably let's now that we've um opened up to you know, we've got rid of this Pandemic and everything that people can actually go out and do things um, I'm probably gonna be doing more of the challenges where um, I'm going to be left alone in all the buildings. I mean I Hope to travel the world again and getting content of various cultures and countries and because I'm still Meaning to write a book on that one, but um the the next thing really is the podcast I'm looking at a podcast where I don't just cover the ghosts and the paranormal but I cover a multitude of things and challenge things and I will see The mental health is one issue that I thought you know one thing I'd like to uh to cover Yes, I'm just um flashing up your Twitter feed here so people can um Follow you at real Richard case That's the one. Yeah as opposed to that deluded guy who's going around thinking he's Richard case He's trying to scam it was funny because I think Chris that was the only way I could get my name on it If I'm honest, what's that I mean? Yeah, I've I've spent hours literally trying to work out You know which one's gonna There's so much more to it.   I need another 240 responses to my survey on pagan sacred Places, so rich. What's a pagan because we hear that term and we we think Yeah pagan is basically If you want it in simple terms, it's any any the religion before The original religion so like um, you've got christianity So they would say the belief before christianity was pagan anything before the official or You know, it's it's a made up name really because um, it's like You know in it in the in the in America, you would have the native americans They were the original people there their beliefs was the original faith or beliefs the native american beliefs were the original And then you say oh now america's christian. Oh anything other than that is pagan, you know, it's before this recognized labels come in so um Yeah, but the the other thing with pagan is it's been taken to a new level because um There are people that call themselves pagans and they're they're they're thinking they're witches And they go back to the original witchcraft of say the 16 1700s back in that time But they're not they're they're a modern form of witchcraft. They've got their own kind of ideas on it um, and that came in say around about the 70s and that so yeah What's it like when you're um, how do you find public speaking? I don't I don't find it that bad actually. Um, it's probably because um, I've spoken to a lot of people When I was in the church, actually, I think that's the only good thing probably come out of it But um, no, I've never found it a problem. Never found it a problem. Um I find it sometimes easier to speak to people and as an audience then I do to stick a headphone on me and um Talk on a on a vlog or a blog. It's very funny But um, you know, I do find it sometimes easier when I'm speaking live to an audience And do you ever have any people challenge you on on certain? They do they do I mean because I um, I I tend to talk about folklore and about beliefs and All the traditional beliefs and witchcraft and you know, people then Want to get to the juicy bits haven't seen a ghost, you know Um, or um Tell you what can have a word afterwards. I saw a ghost, you know, you get a lot of that you get all the things like that when you're doing it Yeah, it's hard. Isn't it when you do public stuff and um People want a piece of you. Yeah, obviously and and your time is kind of sometimes limited um I remember doing a book signing once in hong kong and The bookshop owner was just stood there going Because I just want to meet and greet everyone, you know, big big hug tell them You know, obviously they've got questions for me that I want to answer and You can understand why they've got this um System now where when you do you meet and greet the the celebrity stands there He's got his own photographer all set up. So it's none of this right. Hang on. Let me get me iPhone all no, no, no, it's pointing the wrong way.  Yeah, I I think I I didn't do a Boris moment and start talking about peg. Was it peg a peg a pig? I think he's I can't remember what you're speaking about now. Um, yeah, I have had it go wrong and I've had the notes but I often I often speak without notes any rate, you know, I don't bother with notes Because I find that they tend to go more wrong when you've got everything planned and you've got notes You know, you're going by them and it's like you're reading the notes So you chuck them over your shoulder and start I find that if you're if you've got an audience or you've it's like us talking now It's a conversation you have with the people at the time And if it's relevant to that time, then you don't need notes. You don't need to worry But yeah, there have been times when I've got a bit tongue tied and Or I mean the one thing that happened was when I had an audience is very cold I don't know if you've ever had that where they don't seem to react at all and you think they're going to laugh Okay, like I can sympathize with a comedian as an audience that never lasts that must be horrendous And they're and they're po-faced and it'll all looking straight and then at the end They say that was a jolly good talk that you just done. You think oh, all right then. I thought you didn't like it So, um, yeah, we should give a big shout out to that lovely person in the audience that sits there smiling at you and Yeah, and it you always go to that one person always, uh, just for reassurance. Yeah Yeah, I find it hard on zoom chats because everyone sort of It's it's a byproduct of zoom is that when you're doing a talk everyone Sort of sits there Yeah, and there's none of there's none of this You know the and sometimes I stop and guys are you get are you are you getting this? Oh, yeah? Oh, okay. I just fought for a minute My last public speaking I spoke at a race course up in the north um It's a big business function and I think when I got to the bit about the carbon molecules that was where I maybe I don't think I don't think I lost the audience But I was being it was one of those ones where the chap interviews you, you know, I asked you like 10 questions and and um And I remember saying right guys, this is this isn't hippie-dippy shit And at the end of my little You know speech where I've got to the meaning of life.  Right.  So You've got a battle every day you can't and I'm like, dude. No, no, not at all. I'm I'm like literally like I don't go to any Meetings Who was it that walked out on um, good morning, brit And I think she walked out when she saw the term and I totally agree with what she did They um, they showed the addict it came up on the it was a celebrity And they called her by the name and then it's got former addict And she walked off. She said I took out her hippie piece and said that's it I'm not because you've got me down as a former addict and I do understand completely, right, you know Yeah, it's a disgusting way to label a you know, I always just say someone problematic out, you know problem of alcohol And when this guy called me that I was like, dude, you can call me skydiver pilot world traveler former rulemaries commando best-selling author Top top folks podcast house Although I do realize I've talked a lot in this one because I've just it's been such a great chat um, you know, you More over you can call me ha very proud father and and happy family But you choose the one thing that was like 20 years ago in my history to It's it's come on. Um, yeah. Yeah, but it's that thing. It's it's all about enlightenment and when you're You know, unless you're exceptionally nice loving person you You go with a narrative, don't you in that's that's the the narrative that comes out of the tv Never never looks at addiction is like actually it could be really positive When when you look back at it and it makes you who you are and Um, it's funny. You should say that because I I don't regret Any of the bad moments in my life because that's what made has made me what I am today and learn from it and also Has made me kind of understanding in any of the job roles that I did in the past Because of that experience. So yeah, you're right. Yeah Rich one final question. What's your lovely dog called because I've got it up on the screen now Yeah, that's florence. She's known as florence full name flow.  She uh, she was a little bit unwell the other night So we were quite worried and then we realized it was indigestion So dogs do get indigestion Yes, and there's a lesson to be learned there, isn't it? You can be really horrible to your dog because you're having a bad day not not suggestion You do folks, but I've I've seen someone kick the dog because they They put their meal down on the table in front of the tally went out to grab a knife and fork and in that In that moment the dog walked Right You could get really cross with your dog and what do they do? They just come back and love you, don't they? Yeah, unconditionally. Yeah lesson there for all of us rich. I could talk forever, mate. I've Same here. Thank you. Thank you for having me thoroughly enjoyed it. Yes um Well, you took the words out of my mouth absolutely thoroughly enjoyed this chat and I really hope uh people at home I'm going to do a technological wizardry here and click this button and And it just said dear friends if you could like and subscribe I really hope you um, you've got something from this. Yes, I do realize I've talked a lot, but it's It's it's just a great medium for getting some good stuff out there for you, you know All this this knowledge. It's hidden from you from birth my generation You know Like my parents didn't talk about any of this. They just didn't know it And yet I want my son to you know Grow up being able to make sense of the way I want him to look at a leaf blow and across and go There goes grand grandad, you know, um, so Yes, so, uh Please let us know in the comments if you've got something out of it friends rich massive love to you, mate Just thank you and massive love to you. Oh brilliant. Brilliant. Please just stay on the line while I while I play it's out And I'll I'll thank you properly. Also. I need to borrow a tenner if that's possible um I've just lost myself then Friends big love to you as well if you could like and subscribe that'll be ace And we'll see you in the next one. Thank you