Welcome back to Think Tech. It's one o'clock, one o'clock rock here on a given Monday, and that means it's time for research in Manoa on our favorite shows. And that's provided to us by HIGP, the Hawaii Institute of Geophysical Planetology, which is part of the School of Ocean Earth Science at UH Manoa. And we have two special people from HIGP. We have Professor Jeff Taylor from HIGP and Linda Martell. She's a researcher there. We're going to talk today about science stories. I'm not sure exactly what that means, or how those are going to hang together, but I think it's important that we cover stories, because stories have, you know, the idea of history. History. So let's talk first about history. Welcome to the show, Linda. Welcome, Jeff. Hi, Jay. Good to be here, Jay. We're celebrating this month 20 years of writing science stories for NASA. Wow. That is a long time. Yeah. So we're going to recite Planetary Science Research Discoveries, and it's... Planetary Science Research Discoveries.  Yeah, and it's one of the ways we... one of the questions people will always ask, is, well, what... what good is this? Well, our job is to say what good it is, and also just to say, here's a greater world around us. We aren't just... just Honolulu, or just Oahu, just the Hawaiian Islands, or even just the Earth. It's a much bigger thing we occupy. You know, it's a risk of living on an island where you sort of fold in on a small world and not see the outside. It reminds me of the King and I where you remember there's a there's a scene in the King and I will you'll Brenna has a map of the world and the whole world is Siam. You know you fold in on yourself but you need to look outside we need to look outside. It's important to see the whole. There's also another map as long as you mentioned map the New Yorkers map of the United States where where the Mississippi is is actually the Hudson. We have that in my office. You know exactly what you mean. There's two of them. One looks east from California West from New York and it makes everything in between small. I know and but they aren't small and the whole thing needs to come together and I think that's to have telling the getting the public to learn those that concept that this is a big big world a big universe interrelated world and universe and that's true we have to teach students that and and to look at things in different angles different viewpoints different data sets even you know some you can look at the United States and think of it in terms of its population and diversity of the population it's its education level or you can even look bigger that there's diseases to solve there's exploration to do you know it's there's all different levels that we can look at things yeah this takes you away from the basins things that take you into more negative things like war and terrorism and all that it's better to look big it's better to see the challenges of humanity earth as a whole planet yeah yeah we haven't taken care of it yeah sure taking care of it and environmental climate you look at the earth from afar you really think boy the people living there really should be taking care of each other instead of fighting with each other and and so the perspective planetary science gives us an astronomy to is is very important it is it's a message to everyone think big you know and take care of each other so when we started to PSRD we wanted to be and a source for people that they would know that the science is correct like we're reporting good science to be that kind of mm-hmm yeah yeah so what's what's on their articles they have many features we take we find a story that has just come out in a scientific journal that that frankly moves us one of us at least is gonna write it that is really something yeah yeah it's hard to get a consensus but we once you get an article and you want to explain it you got to read it understand it yourself now we are scientists so that that's not so hard to do but some of these things are really hard tricky so and then you have to explain it and so we I like to say we translated into English from the original geek and and it's it's it's fun to do to try to get it to to explain things and people the public we have gotten good response from the public we've gotten great response from college students who use them as the basis beginning at least the term paper you can read our summary and then go to the science journal sure because you link to the science journal and a glossary although we try not to use scientific jargon sometimes you can't help it so at least we have a glossary so you can learn you know yeah you can't help you know sometimes but go out about jargon and it happens a legal profession too you know you use a word and you do not know anymore that is jargon you forgot already you forgot that that word is actually a technical word and because you use it so much it's kind of interesting so if I find a stiff acronym in there somewhere the glossary should lead the way to to its definition so how often you know do you write you know this sounds like a lot of work to me because there's a lot of articles come out and and it's not easy to interpret some of them or you know make them understandable to the public how often do you do that we try to do one a month when big article and we have short features to that just give the highlight of an article and give a reference to the article and that's kind of a way just leading just give more we can do more diverse topics that way too and they are easier to write quicker to write than the longer articles are sometimes we know when a article will will come out like next week and we'll have something ready so with that when the embargo is lifted then we can go right right so you get an advanced copy embargo and then you're ready to spring yeah so are you getting better at it that's an interesting question is the getting better or quicker I think we are our first story was this huge announcement in 1996 about potential evidence for past life on Mars they caught everyone's attention do you remember this it was really did hit it was even the president which was Bill Clinton at the time got involved and made a statement about this and it was a big press conference and we have a picture actually the number one two number two picture is this press conference the border and NASA photo I think that rock in the box is a Martian meteorite that had the pieces in it that they said organic material of some kind it was some organic material definitely it was organic material in it there were things that look like fossils two of the chief discoverers of the ones they're back or mostly to us there one's kind of in the middle Dave McKay and Everett Gibson and they there were some prime movers on it and they've told me Dave McKay who by the way was on my PhD dissertation committee when I was nice and he knows you well yeah he said that this whole thing was just a zoo he had never experienced anything like this before because from everyone was so excited about it all the press you see them gathered there and it's quite interesting so they found multiple lines of evidence that if you interpret it them all one way you could say oh maybe these were fossils but that was only one way to interpret all the data yeah yeah what was the other way and it was not formed by it was just a regular it was a terrific debate about it some things like the picture number four shows a little thing that looks for all the world like a fossil really there's a little worm there looks like a bacteria those however ten times shorter in length and one argument was we kind of there's not enough room for all the DNA or even is RNA to fit in it that was a big debate another was well actually that's an artifact of sample preparation and one of the people who said that is now on our faculty the guy named John Bradley and he who does electron microscopy and really well and he said that you know it's it's an artifact of coating these things with gold and looking at him they had an electron microscope so that was better it was it was better than any use previously on looking at this kind of objects and they they may have picked up an artifact now it was disputed and it's hard to prove but it is saying here's another alternative another one was one of the lines of evidence where they had tiny magnetite that's the iron oxide grains which make magnets you know lodestone and they were only 10 micrometer 10 10 nanometers in size and they like less than a human hair yeah way less and they were pure iron and oxygen there was no impurities in it and they said that's a hallmark of back to magnetite made by bacteria on the earth and several many types of bacteria make it presumably it has to do with navigation you know which way is up or something like that I don't know I've never I've never asked the bacteria no but no but if they know it that that's better than some people I know yeah and well and it turns out other mechanisms can make these and one of the great things that they have to be really pure magnets and the way to do that has nothing but iron in it no other elements except for oxygen of course but and well other people started making these pure things by taking solutions and evaporating it and you get pure magnetite others took a carbonate that had iron iron carbonate and shocked it heated it by high pressure shock like a meteorite impact would do and out drops little magnetites so you're sure that it's bacteria at all no and here's a really fun fact a lot of it ready for a fun fact I'm actually great today McKay he's the leader of this group who looked at this meteorite and one of the people opposed that really opposed in the idea real or testing it thoroughly including the idea that magnetize conformed by solution chemistry without the role of bacteria Gordon McKay days brother another HIGP researcher at Scott also found other ways for things in this rock to form besides but it all sounds good for the process though oh you know you're faced with a what could be a phenomenal discovery and now you have to think of alternatives oh yeah and it also sparked I think astrobiology as a whole field really people interested in it but this gave them something much more concrete and something to build around and it also showed consider you the debate about this these observations which there were good observations they were also aware of things like contamination they tested for it themselves at the original team well they it was just it shows that you have to test things thoroughly and how hard it is to test it we have the rock I mean really how hard is it but you know there's a worry about contamination in the area the tools the thought process the yeah logic and external phenomenon that might bear on it in some parallel way I mean it's enough to give you a headache and when we come back from this break Jeff and Linda I'm gonna ask you whether there are any undisputed signs of what life anywhere other than earth who don't answer that yet we're gonna come back and see what you do we'll think of the answer I'll Google I'm Stan energy man and I want you to be here every Friday noon think tech Hawaii comm watch the show be there I'm Ethan Allen host of likeable science here on think tech Hawaii every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m. you'll have a chance to come and listen and learn from scientists around the world scientists who talk about their work in meaningful easy to understand ways they'll come to appreciate science as a wonderful way of thinking way of knowing about the world you'll learn interesting facts interesting ideas you'll be stimulated to think more please come join us every Friday afternoon at 2 p.m. here on think tech Hawaii for a likeable science with me your host Ethan Allen you're watching think tech Hawaii offering lifelong learning from passionate hosts and fascinating guests ready to explore and explain Hawaii's place in the 21st century great content for Hawaii from think tech bingo we're back the one o'clock rock research in Manoa with Jeff Taylor and Linda Marcel a regular visitor is here on research thank you guys so we'll be talking about during during the break about education can we talk about that for a minute yeah I was harping on that I think we need to teach more something people need to appreciate the science is equal in importance including its historical aspects to to all the humanities and which are are important both literature history anthropology the study of the human condition sociology to see what we're doing now all these things are important all can be quantified to some degree summer's pure art and that's that is has its own sense you know in fact art for its own sake is not much different than fundamental science for its own I don't think we're giving enough of the science part because I think people perceive it to be too hard when in fact it doesn't have to be which is why we have our web page to try to say well this isn't that hard even though you have this the wackiest title of imaginable very creative people can go into the arts and can go into science that I think they blend and not only does the PSRD website tell stories about science but there's a whole other way to get science into people's minds and that's their books you could for example here this book here in fact we have this the cover in its new incarnation as a Kindle product available from Amazon feel free to buy it $4.99 worth it's a novel by impact it's by it looks like J. G. Taylor that's me and my friend Ron photo we wrote this late 70s published in 1978 or nine still relevant and it's still relevant is a thread of a big impact and we came up with the idea because we were both like to write he had just written a book about meteorites it was a meteorite book for children stones from the sky and he we were talking you know and it was he was making a little money on it but he was we were saying well if you really want to make a lot of money you want a meteorite book with sex and violence so that that strains the imagination you know meteorite well but you do have people involved in the meteorites and they're prone to both of those activities something about the quality of that science hey and so we included that in telling the story about the the problems with a thread of a meteorite impact on Amazon right it's on Amazon just when I can download it on Kindle you can download along Kindle that's what that's what kids like me do you know no it's really is it's fun to write it and it's it's we bring this up to plug the book this face that fact but the excuse is that actually it is another way of telling science stories you know you can tell because this is this was classified as science fiction but you know it isn't it is a story about a scientific real threat and so you get science background about this and how do the characters try to save the world from it all and you could do the same with science in a moon base where you would teach true accurate lunar science as we know it now yeah in the context of a fictional story and I think that that is a whole nother way of doing it you know our web page does it through nonfiction we know we explain an article but this fiction idea is that and you may just reach people differently and there may be different people or maybe the same people just differently is there a reference on your website to the book there should be there is we do have some little way we've made a little report about it yeah okay report but we know it's impact exclamation point photo or and Taylor and you can get it on Amazon what watchers sales skyrocket no pun intended yeah what's interesting you know it's an old book it's some things the real technology being used as a bit out of date so rather than change it off you know it's it was easier to simply make a Kindle edition with small edits of things that we didn't like the way we had written oh so the edition with the changes is the Kindle and kind of with small changes but not updated so it is set back at that time so it has kind of outdated technology but the meteorite side and the impact science is cool it's still good so you may think that I forgot the question I posed just before the break but I didn't so is there really any hard indication that there has been life in this solar system or anywhere outside of earth do we have organic material do we have fossils that we believe how and how do you feel about the level of science a level of discovery on this question so no fossils but there's there's chemical elements and there's things like this on comets and asteroids and there's but nothing has been shown to be made by something biological it's all sort of the building blocks of what life could become came to earth on rocks or in the water and then somehow life began as far as I know there's no evidence the best evidence was this Martian meteorite and it just didn't it didn't hold up to scrutiny so at the end of the day scientific community was not generally convinced the original authors still were yeah but what are we looking for if we will look you know what what would convince you oh that's a good question I don't know because you know there's debate and I don't know the status now but 20 years ago when we wrote this article there's a lot of debate about the oldest fossils on the earth how old were they because you had a rocket and you knew it was old and some some almost four billion years and they had fossils in them but you know they had to come up with rules to say those fossils were in the rock when it formed and were not added a billion years later and and even that then is a hard job this or this is a contaminated planet I mean it's just life everywhere I mean die every every single drop of water that's cooler than than 110 Celsius a little bit above boiling that's something limited that's that's the magic that's the magic isn't it our contamination is our strength yeah something you said a minute ago was it that we do know that there are things which are the building blocks are present in you know in stellar stellar connection amino acids amino acids it's a building blocks so it's seductive to think well if the building blocks are there we know that for a fact no no argument about that then the possibility clearly exists that these things either have or are or will someday be be generating life although the earth is so unique because they call it the Goldilocks you know we're a Goldilocks planet not too far away from the Sun not too close to the Sun perfect for our soul perfect I'm so glad we live here I would not be as as happy any any any other plan so we got more pictures oh or we want to move on we have another story another story the other story in the last 20 years this that's the Martian meteorite that's up on the screen now but number five we've shown this another visit do you think tech that's a this is a graduate student of ours now out in the world in England she worked on water in moon rocks and after Paul came back we looked at the rocks they were really did seem to be bone-dry and there was all kinds of perfectly sound arguments but the technology was not up to the task of saying how bone dry and in 2008 some people who were completely naive to this idea of no water on the moon measured it unambiguously no contamination issues in volcanic glasses and so there's been a lot of study done since then including some by us here because of that graduate student Katie Robinson and others by by postdoctoral fellows we've had people in other labs it's really been a big deal and then not only is a water in the moon when it and which is important for the how the how can you tell this water in the moon I mean it's it's bone dry but there are signs that convince you scientifically that there has been yeah minerals that contain what are those minerals one is appetite the same thing our teeth are made of and and then there are appetite like a meal you use your teeth for a meal so I think there's a relationship I think the name is some Greek name anyway settle the periodic table appetite it was a phosphate mineral it's a fertilizer and all right you heard it here and think that fertilizer on my mind because we've been working on a proposal so that that demonstrates to your scientific satisfaction that there has been water there's water in the chemical formula of these minerals but it's not water I could put in my hand and feel wet it's not water that's H2O dissolved in it was dissolved in magma's and end up in minerals many years ago yeah it was early on when the basalts on the moon for me over three billion years ago but they were in the moon when it formed is there an alternative logical solution for the presence of this stuff no not that stuff but there's other water on the moon is water in the polls and there are areas in the polls at the moon or polls because the moon is because it's its orbit still did a bit compared to the earth's orbit anyway it stays straight up and down and the sun's rays at the bottom and the top north and south and with craters making topography there areas that are in permanent shadow that's more stable than it's rotations are more stable than yeah and so they say we like instability relatively in unstable place to a certain extent but actually the presence of the moon has presented prevented the earth from wobbling too much over time over million year cycles which makes a steadier climate yeah so so you don't have big climate swings which some people argue you don't have any climate you don't have any climate but you do have permanent shadow regions that are are cold they're they're 25 degrees always cold I mean they really are cold and the water if say you add somebody an impact a comet impact it a lot of it gets lost because it's it's flying around it gets disassociated to by but then it might go to the polar regions get trapped and it has been measured there by spacecraft trapped by the cold by the cold so what does it mean in a word what does it mean that you have concluded scientifically there there had there was not anymore right there's only was there oh well the signs that water as we know it water H2O water did it at one point exist on them what does this mean in the larger sense since we're looking larger to know and probably never existed was actually water it's H2O and it ends up in the form in minerals or it ends up in the in ices so it's solid H2O but you never probably never had liquor swimming never drink but that ice could be used as rocket fuel someday we and when we go to the moon and we stay it could be a resource for us and and that opens the whole question of how many other things on the moon resources right it's all it's all it's fantastic possibilities isn't it oh it's fabulous you know let your mind fly every day it may be maybe the thing that opens up the whole solar system for exploration because you have this big gas station nearby that's why we've decided to do this show research seminar with you guys Jeff Taylor and Linda Martell for the next nine billion years because we know that material out there keep us busy right


Good day, it's Professor Resnick again. Today I want to talk about the Hegelian logic. Hegel was a famous German philosopher. He was important in Marx's day, and he was one of the major philosophical figures of any day, not just Marx's day. And his contribution to Marxian theory is in the form of a causal logic, namely how entities exist. And as I told you a long time ago, we're calling this notion of dialectics, which Hegel gave to Marxism and to other studies, over determination. So the question here is to get right to it, how does class connect to non-class? That's the lesson here, using this Hegelian logic. So I'm going to begin right away with this. And you have to keep in mind now what we're going to be doing and what I'm doing is a mental exercise. It's a mental experiment. Suppose we begin our thinking, our theorizing of society with the idea of class. I've mentioned to you many, many times that this is the particular entry point that Marx provides as the way he begins to organize his theory, his understanding of life. And again, class means the extraction of surplus labor to go back to the first thing that we talked about. So that's the entry point of Marxism, the notion of class in terms of the extraction of surplus labor. In Hegel's term, this initial idea is called a thesis. It's very, very important where we begin our theorization, this thesis, the entry point, the way we begin to understand life, a thesis. If we do not say anything else about class, about this thesis, we just stop. We don't say anything else. In other words, if we do not connect this idea, this initial idea of class to any other ideas, then the notion of class is empty of meaning. So in order for something to take on meaning to concreteness, we have to connect that initial idea, that entry point of class, to everything else. Let's use another term to non-class ideas. So we have the following. The initial idea, the thesis of class, is very important, it's where we start. But until we connect non-class, I'm sorry, until we connect it to non-class, then that initial thesis, that initial idea is empty of content. So we have something that is one at the same time important where we begin, and something which is really non-important at the same moment until we connect it to non-class. We have that contradiction. For Hegel and for Marx, the synthesis of these two ideas, that is the connection between class and non-class, creates the meaning for both terms. In fact, the connection of class and non-class, the synthesis of the two, is the Marxian theory of society. You need both in order to have a concrete specific meaning for each of them. Let me go back to Mr. Hegel. For Hegel, the highest abstraction was the notion of being, B-E-I-N-G. And by abstraction was meant, you consider the idea of being itself independently or abstracting from anything else. Being refers only to the is-ness of something, high is-ness to make up a word. Let me take an example of this. You can see this lectern in front of me. This thing is brown. It's wood. It's a holder of my notes. It's roughly about 3 and 1 1⁄4 pounds. It belongs to the university. They purchased it. It's made up of particles, or you can't see them. That's what it's made up there, and it goes on and on and on. Suppose now in this example, suppose we abstract from all these different qualitative and quantitative determinations that I just presented. So what we're left with, as we begin abstractly in our mind, to erase all of these determinations. So we take away woodness. We take away brown. We take away holder of notes. We take away the particles. That's a university property. We erase all of those things. You can have a mental eraser. We erase them all. What we're left with is lectern is. That's the most abstract idea. It's possible. And that idea, after we've erased all of its qualitative and quantitative determinations, is featureless. Why? Because we have erased all of its quantitative and qualitative dimensions. So the notion of lectern, how do we jump? The notion of class is empty of meaning and content if we abstract from all the non-lectern, non-class features of each. Let's use a term that we defined before. If we take away its conditions of existence, then we are left with something which is lifeless, which has no meaning. So for each, the lectern of a class, to take on meaning, it must be connected to or related to that which it's not. That's one of the great contributions of Mr. Hegel. Let's apply this right away to traditional epistemology. Despite the fact we're finished with it, it's a good lesson. Let's consider reality or experience and thinking. So we're going to juxtapose, again, thinking and experience the two aspects of the world. Life, materiality, experience, stripped of thinking is empty. It's like the lectern if we strip away for all of its determinations. So facts or experiences are meaningless if one abstracts from thought. Why? Because thoughts help to create facts for us. That was acclaimed by Mr. Lennon, great revolutionary thinker. So reality or facts exists for us, but they only exist for us when our particular thinking comes into play. Otherwise, those facts are meaningless. Then we can ask the key question which Lennon asked. Whose thinking tells us whose facts? So Lennon wanted to produce a new set of Marxian facts, notice the adjective, for Russia, by connecting its agricultural life to a new Marxian idea, which was the class structure of Russia at the time. That would be a new set of facts that people would have to then confront using that particular kind of thought concrete that Lennon produced with that entry point of the class structure of Russia. That's the same thing with thinking. It only exists for us when our experiences come into play. And we can ask the same question we just asked of thinking, I mean of experience. And the question for thinking is, whose experiences? Workers have different experiences than do capitalists. Why? Because workers are exploited and capitalists are the exploiters. So the answer to that question tells us about whose thinking is at play. In other words, thinking the way we think, how we think, what we think about, are always relative to one's different experiences, including one's class experiences. So from a dialectical perspective, thought alone is empty as is experience. Each needs the other to take on meaning they have to be put into a relationship with one another. And that's a very different approach than rationalism and empiricism, which are basically essentialists to their thinking, which argues that each of them alone can be an ultimate cause of knowledge. And what we've just argued here from the Hegelian perspective, that's an impossibility. Because if you take them alone, they're empty of meaning. They only exist in relationship to one another. By the way, just as a footnote in this, suppose you were impressed or intrigued or whatever with this Hegelian idea, this dialectic, nothing in life exists alone.  So he said, if you understand what I just did, which is the dialectic, you'll understand everything. Because everything in life is but a form, a reflection of this truth. So if you study music or philosophy or history, they are mere reflections of this underlying cause, which is the dialectic. So if you understand the dialectic, you've got the basic key to all knowledge. You've got the truth. At that particular moment, you could provide an interesting criticism of Mr. Hegel, because he's fallen into a rationalist epistemology, despite the fact he himself provided a critique of both rationalism and empiricism. So one has to be careful with this kind of thinking, not to turn one's thinking into the absolute truth, which I think is what precisely Mr. Hegel did. That's the end of this lecture.


All right, before we get started with Meet the Fed, we're going to play Spot the Lamer. Every year here at DEF CON, you guys play Spot the Fed, try to embarrass the Fed.  So obviously, priests picked them. So if you guys could kind of line up in front here so that everybody can see him.  Okay, that's good, that's good. Okay, where's the IRS? Okay, what we're going to do is we're going to start asking questions to each of the panel members. We're going to start with Ken Privet from Postal, and we're going to work our way down here and end this way.  Come on quick. No, hubba hubba. Where's the best place to store porn? I'll give you two answers. Your neighbor's box over the Wi-Fi, or your box? Pick a number, Ken. Who do you want to answer? Oh, this gentleman here. Okay, you've been eliminated, you can sit down now. Not here. Thank you. Mike. Alright, let's see. Name at least five Intel x86 machine instructions and two Mock instructions. Who do you want to answer? I added the last part, they gave me the first part, but I added the last part because I want to see if you really know. Alright, see you later, man. Time's up, stay right where you are because you look like a Lamer, next one. Question goes to you. Can you name the entire Skywalker family? Okay, Mike. John, Gareth. For this gentleman here in the rather aggressive arms cross posture, have you coded more than 200 versions of Hello World programs in your life? Barry. Okay, for the contestant on the end, which of the following regarding the iPhone applies to you? A, you did the jail breaking thing right away. B, you mostly use it to watch Battlestar Galactica. Or C, are you effing kidding me? Alright, second from the end. Louder. How many external media devices do you own and how many are on you now? Michelle. What time do you have to be at work? What time do you get there? Vegas. So for the gentleman in black here, when does December 25th equal October 31st? When does DEC 3025 equal OCT 31? Come on, this is only an hour and a half, let's go. That's a great decimal, 25 is octal 31. Number two, do you still live in your parents' basement? What floor of your parents' house do you live on? Okay, could all the contestants please raise your hand? I'm going to get to that. Okay, now, if you, come on higher, we want them to see, if you have never hacked a government system, put your hand down.  What is better for stiffing traffic, network traffic, a hub or a switch? And why? Okay, Marcus. I'm going to talk to this labor here in green. Is this about the bed? If I put my card in promiscuous mode, what does it mean? Okay, having experienced what you've experienced, given a choice next year of coming to DEF CON and getting embarrassed as hell, we're staying home and getting laid. Which would you prefer? Actually, this one I applied to the three women, those two guys wouldn't get laid at home either. Show of hands, do you have two hands? Anything? They said yes. Okay, for Beerman, how do you feel about employers requiring you to look professional?  Who coined the term cyber cop? Moving right along. This is for either of the two gentlemen. In your opinion, what's the best way to pack code? Number two, do you still tell your mom and dad goodnight? Okay, if you would all face the judges. Okay, raise your hand number one with a hat and a beer. If you think he's the lame, please clap. Number two, please raise your hand. Let's hear it for number two. Okay, number one, you could sit down. Number three, would you raise your hand? Number three, okay, number four, raise your hand. Higher. Higher? Okay, number four, we're going to keep you up here because you're cute. Number five, raise your hand. Okay, number five. Okay, number one or number four? One, raise your hand. Number four, raise your hand. Okay, we're still going to keep you up. If you raise your shirt, you get more votes.  Number, you're number one now, you're number two. Number one, let's hear it for one. Number two, okay, two, you can have a seat. I'm sorry. Okay, number one, the new number two. I'm sorry, honey, we're going to have to send you home. Number one, and our lady. Okay, well, we would like to award you with, and what's your first name? Amy. Amy, we have this coveted spot, a fed t-shirt for you, and now everybody, if you just walk down here, everybody has a gift for you. Everybody has a small gift for you. Okay, but you have to walk faster. Amy, Amy, that guy's still here. That's where you have the bag. Cuffs in the bedroom. Thanks, thanks, priest, for all the help. They're doing that in a hallway. Okay, what we're going to do is we're going to start with Ken Privet and let everybody introduce themselves, talk about two minutes on their agency, what they do, and then we're going to open it up to questions. So formulate your questions, and we have a microphone down here so everybody else can hear. So if you want to start forming a line. Hi, Ken Privet, I'm an agent in charge of the Postal Service Digital Evidence Services. We do computer crime investigations and do computer forensics for the Postal Service to support investigations. Some of the problems you guys create, we kind of end up with a sweep them up and taking care of them. So let's see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, these guys. The bureaucracy mostly, yeah, yeah, that's my problem. No, and the Postal Service is a massive amount of computer infrastructure. One of the third, like I think the third largest infrastructure in the United States. It, a lot of computers that push the mail around and help it get delivered to you. So we secure that infrastructure and do the investigations to support it. Here we go. I'm Colonel Mike Convertino from the US Air Force, Don San Antonio, the 318th Information Operations Group. We specialize in network access engineering down there. And basically, I'm here to recruit you, not arrest you like some of the people on this stage. So I'm the good guy. In fact, how I came to, yeah, as evidence of that, last year we hired over 60 people into the Air Force as a result of my visit to this conference. So actually, it is true. So, yeah, I guess also I'm somewhat, the most similar to any of you up here on this stage too, as I started off with an interest in electronics as a very young boy. I got sent to a summer camp one time. My mom sent me there. I met a girl. So you can say that I started this out of, started this as interest in this as part of, you know, for love, you know. Yeah, and so anyway, I wanted to call her afterward and I combined my interest in her with my interest in electronics to make the phone system do what I needed to do. So my other, yeah, today it probably would be considered stocking, but so my, my other, my handle is loopback. I don't know if you know me from online, so anyway. Do you say humpback? Hi everyone. I'm Stéphane Turgent. I'm a sergeant with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I'm, there you go. Are you a Montreal Canadiens fan or Ottawa? Toronto now. Okay, anyway. I want you. So I'm, yeah, go ahead. You want a hat? All right, we're moving on. Okay, move on. All right, maybe you're right along. Hat for you. Okay. Now, good for you. I'm not Taser trained, so if I have to arrest you someday, you'll be lucky. And now, seriously, I'm in charge of the computer crime section in Ottawa, and we deal with the computer crime investigations involving terrorism, drugs, organized crime, national security, and of course, computer intrusion. I'm here, first time, it's my first time here. I'm really happy to see all of you guys and actually I'm also here to recruit. So if you have any suggestions, any ideas to help us, help us the RCMP, then we'll be here to receive you. You are. It all depends on the cases, and I assume so we could, it depends. Need a visa. Rule number one, never follow a guy with the sexy accent. John Garris, I run the Computer Crimes Division for NASA IG. I think you know what NASA does, so I won't go into that. I was gonna talk about my Air Force experience, but I don't know if I wanna be associated. You know, what I do have to offer though is coveted NASA IG Ninja throwing discs that also happen to double as coasters, but you know, you can decide.  And my name is Barry Grundy. I'm a special agent with the Treasuries Inspector General for Tax Administration. I've only been there for about five months. I'm in the Network Intrusions Unit. We do Network Intrusions, Fishing Investigations. I've only been there for about five months. I used to work for John Garris here at NASA beforehand. And I- John fired him. And I- I'm actually, I actually replaced this guy down here, Andy Freed, and I don't know if those of you who know Andy know- He got fired too. Those of you who know Andy know that when he left, he left a huge knowledge vacuum. And I'm in there trying to fill it, trying to fill his big shoes by pissing off as many people as I can, as quick as I can. And trying to unlearn all my interpersonal skills as quick as I can too. But seriously, what we do is, TIGTA, the group TIGTA does oversight for the IRS. So we protect the tax infrastructure for the IRS. And that includes a network intrusions and other computer crimes. That's it. I'm Paul Sternel. I'm the program manager for the Computer Crimes Unit for the Defense Criminal Investigative Service. We're the criminal investigative arm of the DODIG. You may have heard of the Department of Defense or Small U.S. Government Department. That's about it.  I'm Michelle Kwan. I'm the director of U.S. CERT. And we work with the departments and agencies in the dot gov portion of the government in incident response and general security. We also work in conjunction with state, locals, international, and industry and collaborating and coordinating during incidents. And we also hear recruiting. So if you are interested in a job, we have jobs posted in USA Jobs, and you can always come up and see me too. My name is Lynn Wells. I'm with the National Defense University, which is in Washington, D.C. We have a couple of things that really might be of interest to you all. One is the Information Resource Management College, which has some terrific opportunities for people with advanced degrees. Also grants certificates and things like that and things like CIO and CISO. But it's also got a batch of closed networks.  And it's a really good training place. We're also doing a lot of work on social software and national security. How you have to balance the risks and the gains and we're very much welcome some of your insights into that. And we also are looking for leveraging the great talent that's out here and find ways to work together. Thanks. Hi, my name is Gordon Snow. I'm the Section Chief of the Cyber National Security Section of the FBI, and I'm also the Director of the National Cyber Investigative Joint Task Force. In my job as Cyber National Security Section Chief, I coordinate the cyber investigations that cross terrorism, intelligence, counterintelligence, and law enforcement equities of the 56 field offices that we have and the 60 legal attachés we have around the world. As a Director of the NCI JTF, I do the same thing for the 18 member organizations that are there. We have jobs, obviously, in the agent field, in the intelligence field, in the forensics field. And since we are an equal opportunity employer, I'm here to arrest or recruit. Hi, I'm Rich Marshall. I'm first generation grateful dead. Really missed, Jerry. I'm recovering, though. I work for the National Security Agency. I've had 27 drug tests in the last three years. I pass all of them because they ask you to provide a urine sample, so think about it. But you have a study for it, right? The National Security Agency section that I work for provides information system security solutions for national security telecommunications and information systems. So that's probably one of the more important things that we do. Mark. This is like Alcoholics Anonymous. I am an ex-fed. Hi, Mark. I'm Mark Sox. I run the Internet Storm Center. Used to be at DHS. I was at White House before that and our military before that JTFC and D. I am a US citizen. I normally carry. We can't really do that in the casinos. I do believe in the Second Amendment. My name's Andrew Freed. I'm a former IRS person. I'm sure some of you have heard of this before. Thank you very much. A couple of years ago, my boss is don't do anything stupid, so I was the one that got married on stage here in DEF CON two years ago. This is my 10th or 11th DEF CON, and I think I've been pretty active in a lot of the groups you probably are all part of yourself. Hi, I'm Greg Garcia, Jerry's reincarnation, president of the cleverly named Garcia Strategies, a consulting firm. At the Department of Homeland Security, I was the first assistant secretary for cybersecurity and communications.  As assistant secretary for cybersecurity and communications, I was responsible for three things. The national cybersecurity division, which Michelle Kwan is a part. The national communication system, which keeps our communications infrastructure up and running in times of national emergency, and the office of emergency communications. So I have to say, for the two years that I was a DHS, left in December, I probably did 100 or more keynote addresses across the country and internationally, and this is the first time that I ever looked this cool. My name is Kevin Manson, and I'm a Webaholic. You're supposed to say hi, Kevin. Thank you. I am the one that coined the term cyber cop back in the late 80s. And I was with DHS at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center. I had the privilege of training over 100,000 agents over my 20-year career. And one of the things I'm most proud of is training federal agents how to obey the law while they enforce it. Eight years ago, I was privileged. I was actually given a call when Richard Clark was not able to keynote the Black Hat Conference. I got a call from a dear friend of mine, Bill DeFoia. Bill was with the FBI Behavioral Science Unit. And he did the definitive profile of Ted Kaczynski. And a member of the History Channel had interviewed Bill, and they asked him, who do you think this individual's going to be when they catch him? And he said, I think it's going to be a monk on a mountain in Montana. So when Bill called me, he said he'd been asked to keynote, filling for National Security Advisor Richard Clark. And he said that he gladly accepted that. He said he wanted to add one requirement. He said he wanted his friend to co-kinot with him. He called me and asked me if I wanted to do that. And I said, Bill, what small body parts do you want? So I was very privileged to do that. This is only my third Black Hat death gun. But one thing I did note when I keynoted back in 2001, and I noted that the true elite are not those who are out there wreaking havoc on the internet. The true elite of the roles are out there defending it. And I'm proud to say I'm associated with these kinds of people who've been doing that for a long time. If you want to take a look at something, a project that I'm also very involved with, and if you go and take a look at my website, which is it's a long one, I apologize, but it's redtapewillnotdefeaterrism.org. I am having second thoughts about that. If they had to deal with some of the red tape that I saw in my 20 years in government service, we could probably defeat them handily. But if you take a look at it, it's a project that we are urging those who really do believe that the true elite are those who are defending. We'd urge you to join us. It's a non-government entity, basically, so we... Your 12 minutes is up now. Thank you. No problem. Thank you. My name's Ray Kessnick. I'm a retired special agent with the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. My last few years I spent as the Director of the Defense Cyber Investigative Training Academy in Maryland. I'm currently the Director of Training for the International Multilateral Partnership Against Cyber Threats. Kind of a tortured long name, but it's impact based out of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. We have a stated goal of assisting developing countries as they come online, giving them the security tools and training necessary so they can do it on a level playing field. And I appreciate you're having me here today. Thank you. I'm Bob Hopper with the National White Collet Crime Center. How many of you guys have ever heard of that? Everybody that raised their hand is a cop, right?  I'm here recruiting. How many of you have a resume with you right now? Come see me. If you can decipher the information on this coin, the hex and binary, we'll talk. Thanks. My name is Jamie Turner. I work with NCIS and I never really like be here. I like to be surfing back home Hawaii, but I had to come. So I work with NCIS and part of their mission is to investigate and solve those crimes that affect the world-friending capabilities of the Department of the Navy and the United States Marine Corps. And we have a cyber division. I work with that division, looking at the infrastructure, conducting computer operations and investigations. And this also gives me a chance to thank a lot of you guys that are here because of the panel too, because I go by different handles. Some know of me as a Jesus Christ warrior, full thought of a Christian or just whatever. And I am a Christian, but you guys, if I wouldn't be where I'm at today, if you guys haven't helped me and some of these guys on this panel. So I want to say to you from my heart to you, brother to sister, brother to brother, just like when Ohana, like when big family, and nothing bad, it's all good. And I want to thank you for this opportunity to be here and talk story. Okay, the microphone's down here. Now the rest of the night is up to you guys. Questions? Sir, Dr. Wells. Lynn, how you doing, man? Good. I just want to let you know that the US Air Force still loves you. Thank you. You're welcome, sir. And you can explain to people later why we say that. I have a question, sir. It could go to any panel member. There are many people representing a broad part of the government here, but not that many war fighters. People whose DNA might be the principles of war, mass observation, surprise security. But we're headed into a lane where there are going to be war fighters. I think when Colonel Convertino said he was recruiting, part of that includes a need for youngsters to come into war fighting as well as intel. My question is, how are we doing at setting up US Cybercom from your point of view? How will DHS get along with the war fighting part that's emerging very strongly? And how do you see our ability to conduct war operations in cyberspace developing? Thanks, sir. Mike, you want to start with that one? Sure. I think we've gotten off to a pretty fast start with the US Cyber Command stand-up. My unit is part of the Air Force component to US Cyber Command. 24th Air Force, which will basically operationally directly support US Cyber Command is in the process being stood up down in San Antonio where I am. And we're looking forward to all that. And you're right, there's a certain war time or war focus to that and supporting the networks that we operate on, but also holding our enemies' networks at risk are pretty key to that. And we're busily trying to buttress our forces in that area right now, which is part of why I'm here to recruit. And as far as the risk goes, I think I'll let Lynn answer the rest. So I think one of the things you need to do to stand up an effective change like Cyber Command, like the ability to get effective war fighting is you have to have to address sort of four areas. You have to address people and you have to address processes and you have to address technology and you have to address organizations. So Cyber Command begins to take care of the organizational piece. It sort of begins to take care of the people piece, but not really. So we have to co-evolve all of those. And part of the organization is how we interact with the rest of government. I think that a lot of work has been given to understanding how this will interface with DHS. I can't speak for DHS and how they view it or how they'll respond. But I think from the President on down, based on the sort of review he did of the cyber threat a few months ago, everyone understands that this is a national problem and is gonna require a national solution not just the Department of Defense. So I think all of us involved in this realize it's gotta be not only a whole of government, but a whole of nation. There has to be a private sector. There has to be a business community. There has to be a whole of government approach to this. So we didn't really have a choice if we're gonna be effective in this space. So I think it's important. I think we've taken some first steps. We still have a long way to go. And speaking for DHS, we do see this as a team sport. We do see this as more than just war. There's as we know from our law enforcement partners here up on the panel as well. There's a criminal element to this as well. And this is definitely a team sport. We definitely need the assistance of private industry and our international partners as well. And we have been doing this well so far and I think we can do it better and we'll continue to do it better and continue to work together. Next question, sir. This question is for the Postal Service and maybe others. You probably can't tell by the way I'm dressed, but I win the lottery by email almost every week. And the amount of fraud on the Nigerian fishing expeditions and others on the internet is just massive. Is there a website that we can just forward these messages to? So some of the people in the feds can slow the fraud down a little bit.  NW3C in partnership with the FBI has a site that you can actually do that. It's IC3. IC3.org. Got it? Actually, the FBI does a really excellent job of cobbling, doing some analysis and cobbling those cases together and either investigating those on their own or shipping them out to jurisdictions that are appropriate. And NW3C's side of that is to kind of do the same thing. We don't do the level of analysis that the FBI is able to do. But we do essentially the same thing they do and that is identify the law enforcement agencies that might be able to impact it and get those cases to the right people. And hopefully that answers your question. Andy, did you wanna take that? Go with it, Andy. Well, I've not been pretty heavily involved in fishing and fraud and I would say that maybe out of 10 million offenses that you've probably gotten in your email box, I think the federal government maybe has made three to five arrests. So it's a big problem and I'm not sure it's an easily solved problem. I think the good spam filters are probably better solution than assuming law enforcement's gonna protect you because there's just so much of it out of there. I think, I know how to solve the problem. Use the mail, you know, don't use this email stuff, guys. Get off that. It's dangerous out there, guys, dangerous. Use the mail. Next question, sir. It's no secret that the various worms and trojans have significantly impacted coalition operations in Afghanistan and Iraq over the past 12 months. What lessons have been learned and what are you guys planning to do to make sure that that sort of thing doesn't put our guys in greater danger than they already are? Yeah, that's, I'll take that one. The DOD has undertaken a great number of efforts to try and both correct the, I guess, the needy end of the network's patching capabilities to try and get patches out to the appropriate people out in the field, but also to put in place better mitigation efforts for when compromises do happen. Make sure that the, make sure that exfiltrations really can't happen or are much more difficult to make occur. And also a certain amount of discipline and education and the people in the field in Afghanistan and in Iraq both, to make sure they understand what these threats are. Everybody in this room has a pretty good intuitive idea of what those things are, if not an intimate one, but the soldiers in the field don't necessarily. You know, if you're an artillery guy or a fighter mechanic, you might not have an intimate idea of what those things are. So we're improving our education efforts too. I would like to ask a yes or no question to each member of the panel. Do you, do you feel you are more empowered to do your job under the current Obama administration versus the Bush administration? This is a yes or no question. There are no gray areas. Please answer yes or no.  Yes, I do. Oh, yes, I do.  I'm gonna feel quite empowered when this guy passes out on the floor. I don't think he's drunk.  If you would like a drinking contest, please bring it this way.  Sir! I remember when I had my first beer too. I'm glad Sam Adams has been making beer that long, sir. Next question, please. A lot of people around here don't have a traditional education, let's say. The GS schedule doesn't really work with that. Is there any plans to change that at all? Could you ask, we were watching him. We, like watching a car wreck, go again. Did you guys hear me at all? Is this thing on? The question was, if you have a sort of a non-standard education, the GS schedule doesn't really work. Is there any plans to do anything differently as far as that goes? You know what my response would be, you know? You can always enlist in the Air Force. And we would educate you. And the other thing is we do have ROTC scholarships so you can get a standard education and ultimately fit into that structure as it exists. But as far as modifications to the GS structure, I haven't heard of any. There are lots of ways to qualify for those positions and they're not always dependent upon formal degrees, but it depends upon the position and how the position description is written. And I'll also include that you could apply for a cyber core scholarship as well. Are you basically speaking about the GS-PACE scale? Second, is that correct? Are you basically speaking about the GS-PACE scale? Yeah, basically if you don't have a college degree, you hit a limit. I know that some of the agencies are going to what they call NSPS, basically where they're trying to compete with the outside of the corporate. So they're trying to get in line with what's going on with corporate America if that helps you. A lot of times that's also based on position. I mean, it's not really, I don't think all of it's wrapped around the GS schedule. I know I've hired people and a person's like a GS-14 now on my team that doesn't have a college education. I saw great value in lots of other things that this person brought to the table. Our former director did not have a college education, GS-15, very impressive people, non-traditional education, great value brought to the table with a huge amount of system administration experience and understanding of networks. That does not stop you. A lot of times you'll see a little caveat at the end of a position description, it'll say or equivalent experience, blah, blah, blah. So keep looking for things like that, not just seeing that four year thing and feeling like that it's gonna kill you.  Let me just quickly add that just a story. We've got a little Linux guy that works for us.  So I mean if you've got the talent, there are folks out there that need you. There are people that will help you get through that education cycle. It's not a closed loop. He's not the only one. I've got actually in my small little tiny shop, I've got three different people that are going through that kind of program. I hired them because they were really, really good at what they did and I really didn't care about their formal education at the time. They're getting it now, but I really didn't care about where they'd gone to school because they were just really, really talented people. Next question please. Looking in from the outside, it seems like several different agencies are almost swabbling over who's going to kind of take the lead in the US's cyber defense and it kind of seems now that the Air Force is kind of moving to the head of that. My question is basically, when are we going to see more of a unified front of a single entity saying we are cyber defense as the Air Force is to the air or et cetera? But yeah, this is a source of confusion, I think caused by some of the commercials that came out last year and whatnot, but the Air Force is not out to rule the cyber world. We have our own little section of it and we want them to take care as good stewards of our own networks to make sure those are secure. And as I mentioned earlier, we want to hold adversaries networks, especially ones related to Air Force at risk. But from a functional standpoint, working with the folks at NSA and other services, they're really at the working level that there's no swabbling over it. I think at the executive level, there's some discussion between DHS and DOD and some advocates in Congress back and forth between those two, so supporting one organization or another. But as far as us working on this table, for example, working together, we don't, I've never had an issue. Next question. There's a lot of news about North Korea being a threat to the US or to any country as a nuclear nation or possible nuclear nation, but wondering what kind of a cyber threat do they pose to the United States allies, if any. You hear any news about DDoS tax or anything coming from North Korea? What kind of threat do they pose, if any? I'll take a stab since y'all are waiting down there. North Korea is hooked up with 56K dial-up modems. And if they can pull all five or six of them together for a DDoS, I'd like to see that happen. This is kind of a multi-part question and it's open to anyone who wants to answer it. I'm sure with your professional experiences, you've been involved in projects that have uncovered zero-day exploits, viruses, worms, and trojans. What do you have that ensures us that you, when you find these exploits that you contact us and let us know about them publicly, if any at all. And also, if you choose not to let us publicly know about this uncovering of a zero-day exploit, do you keep them for your own personal use in your agencies? Are you able to track these offers and then hire them or recruit them as opposed to charging them with criminal intent? So I wish it was that sexy, but it's not. You can go to the U.S. cert webpage and we post all the information that we know there. You can sign up for the U.S. cert advisory and we will email you and let you know when we find out about something. So it's not quite that sexy. My question's another question regarding North Korea. There's a big media frenzy regarding like the big North Korean DDoS attack that involved the Treasury website among other government and corporate entities. It came out that that was an eight megabit per second attack which is like what, two cable modems? And then with regard to the Russia-Georgia incident, how big is cyber warfare a threat in this new kind of era? Is it really a threat or is it, with the media, is their focus misplaced? Well, I think you have to be careful about what you read in the media and what you believe. Yeah, that's very true, especially in regards to Russia and Georgia. Certainly we interpret what happened there as either sympathetic or actual virtual preparatory fire prior to actual physical engagement. So we in the military regard that as pretty serious stuff. So we examine that pretty carefully and we watch how those things were done, who actually did them and try to figure out exactly how we'll handle those things as they come up again. But clearly we've seen in the press certain nations have come boldly out and said, hey, this is pretty neat stuff. And oh, by the way, it's not illegal as far as we can tell, which I thought was pretty interesting. Some responsible members of other governments saying these things in the press. So yeah, we take that pretty deadly serious, especially in the military. Oh, I think, so I think one of the things that was concerned, particularly as you watch the progression from Estonia to Russia, Georgia, and this is, as Colonel said, the integration of cyber with conventional military operations. And so this is not just gonna be a standalone thing that happens in cyberspace, but likely to be a part of a more integrated campaign. So one has to give thought to how one addresses that. The other thing that's very interesting is these are rarely solely state on state identified activities and the waters are muddied considerably by hacktivists or patriotic hackers, we're doing a column, who are working in similar spaces. And so that makes the attribution problem particularly hard and all this needs to be factored into the consideration. Next question. So the big internet service providers receive thousands of requests a year for customer's records, their emails, their searches, and in many cases, you guys are the originating parties for some of those requests. Now these internet providers are not equal when it comes to their tactics for responding to these requests. Some of them charge the requesters for the information, some of them provide it for free. In the case that you claim exigent circumstances, so an emergency, some of them provide it without a subpoena and some of them say come back with a subpoena. I'm wondering if any of you can share some of your experiences with these companies and let us know which internet providers are standing at their ground and saying come back with a warrant and which are handing it over for free with no subpoena required. I'll give it a shot. I'd like to get a list of those that are doing it for free. I've not run into it. We issue quite a few subpoenas and search warrants and basically there are ways to expite as you noted exigent circumstances, but it's all within a very strict legal framework. On the law enforcement side, if we try to short circuit it, we short circuit our own investigation so we shoot ourselves in the foot. So I can speak definitively for us and I'm sure that everyone else is the same is that you gotta do the paperwork. Unfortunately, we have to cut this short by seven o'clock. However, if there's anyone interested in doing the QA, we have a QA session over here in room 103. All of you folks are welcome and encouraged to come over here. Then all the folks who were asking questions are welcome and encouraged to come over here. But we have shut it down by seven. Thanks guys. We've still got five more minutes folks. I'll try to be quick then. Earlier on the response to one of the first questions, the panel was talking about wanting to have greater cooperation with private industry in I guess in coordinating defensive tactics, investigations, whatever. What sort of carrots or sticks as appropriate are you using to get high level cooperation with private industry? And I don't mean like infraguard because a lot of the low level stuff goes on. But how are you doing that? Or how can I get my organization to cooperate with law enforcement? Well it's more than just law enforcements with the community in general and you can do this through the ISACs, through your sector ISAC, you can join your sector ISAC and participate in that way. You can work directly with USCIRT. We're more than happy to do that. DOD has a pilot program with the Defense Industrial Base. It's a voluntary program where the private sector folks can sign up with DOD when there's an attack on their system. They notify the Department of Defense. We sanitize that information, share it with the rest of government and the rest of the companies that have signed up. And we share that not only in an unclassified format but in a classified context what the threat really is. So it's a brand new pilot program. We have about 29 major defense contractors that are participating in that program right now. I'm also going to get a URL from you. See me afterwards. Yes sir. Mine's going to be quick as well. I work for a Canadian e-commerce site. We see about $1.5 million with a fraud every year.  No. Okay, I'm sorry that we've been cut off so that was the last one.


Hi everyone, Joe for Jaspy's casebreaks.com coming at you with a quick little pack break 2019-2020 Penini mosaic basketball some good stuff here. This is random team break number 14 at the end of the break I'll re-randomize your names top five All right there top five will get spots in that basketball mixer, which is officially sold out We just need to do one more of these a blaster break I think mosaic blaster and then I think we'll be in breaksville big. Thanks all these folks for getting into the action Thanks to all the teams right here. So let's do the break itself first Let's roll it. Let's randomize it five and two seven times for each list one two three four five six and Seven it's just for the break Vincent down to Ryan alright seven times for the teams and Seven in final time after seven we've got the Orlando magic down to the Boston Celtics Orlando magic down to the bottom. There we go. Got everybody We're watching where's Waldo the cartoon show I Know where is he's right there What is he Carmen San Diego? All right, here's here's the first group right here universal kids network It's just the dream work cartoon. No work Colin Grizzlies and We've got Quentin Palligans That's basically all you need to know right for For this little one-pack break. So let's sort by column B. Let's print. Let's rip Jose what's going on? There's Blake got got game Bradley Beal Dante Devin Chenzo Kyrie Irving and Tyler here. All right, nothing significant there But what about the pink camo? Van Vleet Taj Gibson and a rookie. It's gonna be ties your own Suns that'll be for Calvin. It's a rookie parallel. You never know That could be that could be a somebody Put that in the drawer See what happens all right From TJ Leonard down to Zach Paul Everyone has a shot at those mixer spots top five after three Top five after three. Good luck everybody one two and Three after three times. There's three right there big. Thanks to all of these folks for getting into the action I really appreciate it. There's I think there's still a few blaster spots left to your last chance again to the mixer So give that a go if you're if you didn't make it this time and congrats to the top five Gordon Eric Z Colin Kelvin and Kelvin Wow two spots for Kelvin Two of the five there you have it. Congrats. Thanks everyone. I'll see you next time for the break. Bye. Bye


Durek and Limpar. It's Kanchowskis! It's Kanchowskis through his right. André Kanchowskis! It'll be quick to take it. Happy history! But he came quickly to him. James! Banes again! Wonderful skill. And on it goes for Barclay. Back for Davis.  Davis, he's done it! That must be Tom Davis' goal.


Now moving on to our third strategy and we'll be talking about emotions and attention. So the third way in which emotions impact learning. So I was saying earlier that emotions drive our attention. So they influence our ability to process information and understand what we encounter. How are these reactions that I have in my body, in my thought process impacting how I react into the world who I am as a person, right? But the thing is that not all emotions are the same. Many times when we are experiencing big feelings and that is very true for our students as you are probably know, when they're experiencing those big feelings, they are not able to focus, right? Our brain doesn't work well under stress. And actually stress and that it has been one of the greatest consequences of the global pandemic. Students are coming back to the classroom with additional trauma and high levels of stress because they have experience, social isolation and different adverse experiences that are impacting their ability to be focused in the classroom. And we are seeing students experiencing greater levels of stress and experiencing those big emotions. And what happens when students are in those states, if you can go back to that prior slide, is that it's robbing them from that neural functioning that they need in order to learn, right? All the resources that they have in their working memory are being robbed of those resources because they are experiencing these big emotions. So the impact for the classroom in this case is that we need to consider the emotions that the students experience, not only in the classroom, how we are creating the environment in the classroom to make sure that students have an opportunity to refocus, to feel safe, to feel supported, but also the experiences that they bring from home. And as educators, we don't have control over what happens with students at home, right? But we do have control of creating a space when the students arrive from home to our classroom that they have that opportunity to refocus, to center themselves so we can prepare the brain for learning. So when we don't teach social emotional learning, when we don't help students to understand their emotions, to name them, to be able to identify where they feel them in their body so they can really notice, well, what's the difference between being annoyed and being upset, right? Those are important things that we need to teach our kids. When they don't understand those nuances, they cannot navigate their internal world, right? So we need to create that awareness of what's going on inside. And we do that through different strategies that we are talking here today, but one of them is to creating these emotional check-ins. This time and space when we are coming together with our students as an opportunity to regulate the nervous system. And regular emotional check-ins come in many different shapes and sizes. Truly, you can use many different activities as an opportunity to regulate emotions, but some of the most common ones is to hold a classroom meeting at the beginning of the day, an opportunity for the classroom community to come together and see, like I asked you when we started, what are the emotions that you are coming into the space? Because if most of you were furious and I had seen furious or upset or other big feelings there, maybe we needed to change the focus of the presentation and maybe let people process those emotions before we started to share some of the content, right? Because we know that those emotions impact our readiness for learning. Other opportunities when transitions tend to be hard for kids, right? If you are coming from recess, back into the classroom or kids are transitioning from different teachers, they need some time to reconnect, right? To gather themselves and to regulate the level of energy, right? Sometimes we are doing activities in the classroom that require our students to have higher levels of energy and that's okay, but sometimes, depending on the activity, we need to regulate that energy. So, for example, doing some selling, journaling or drawing about their feelings might be a good opportunity to help students transition between different activities. And then this idea of exit tickets, I know many of you use exit tickets in your classroom for academic learning. So, here's an opportunity to use exit tickets to inquire about students' emotional experience during the day. What is the emotion that they have when they leave your classroom? And one of the questions that I really like to ask educators when I do trainings is, what are the emotions that you want students to fill in your classroom? And then looking at the teaching strategies that you use and seeing are those aligned, right? And if we are teaching in order for students to fill in a certain way, you create that alignment, probably your classroom is gonna be a joyful, a peaceful and engaging place, right? But sometimes that we go like this, it's not aligned, right? So, we have to create those experiences. So, at the end of the day, like this process of emotional check-in, truly we are getting at the core of normalizing, talking about emotions. And I know this is really hard for educators because there is, as I said, some unlearning that we need to do as adults in order to be able to normalize this discussion with our students. But these are some ways in which you can do this, engaging discussions about the meaning of emotions and how characters use them to make decisions during your literacy time. Most books, right? Have stories of characters that have challenges or that they face difficult decisions. And that brings an opportunity to talk about those emotions with our students. Explore the feelings that come up for students when they are presented with different subjects or activities. We are all different, right? So there are certain activities in the class that trigger different feelings for students. So just having an open conversation about what happens can really be helpful. And I wanna do a call-out on math, for example. Math is one of those subjects that generates very strong feelings in people. You either hate it or love it. But there is a spectrum, right? So my hope is that if we normalize talking about the feelings that math generates, more and more students, especially girls, can develop a love for math, right? Because we are giving students the tools to process those feelings and acknowledge, wow, yes, I'm feeling really stuck when I see this multiple step math problem. Like I get paralyzed almost and I'm not able to engage myself to do anything else, right? So if we give students those strategies to process those feelings, then they are in a better place to tackle the academic work that is necessary. And then finally, using those seesaw ACL stories to help students reflect on their own life experiences, right? To think about that consequential thinking. What happens, what are the consequences of our actions and what happens when we see that we have different choices when it comes to our thoughts, our behavior, our emotions, right? And many times students don't see, I'm sure that you have in your head those repeated offenders, right? Those students that really maybe keep you up at night or that they are always or often making the same mistakes, right? So those are students that cannot see that there are different choices when it comes to their behavior. And these normalizing, talking about emotions and helping students to process those emotions can be really a very powerful tool to help other students be healthy adults, right? To be healthy adults. So if you implement this strategy, one of the things that you will see is that students start to develop that capacity to really understand their feelings, understand their emotions, make better decisions because they are creating that space between that stimulus and that response and they are able to express their feelings in more constructive ways, right? So we go to a place where we are trying to find the balance between that individual processing but also our social context and being able to express our emotions in constructive and in helpful ways depending on the context. And I know that CISA has some additional tools that you can use in order to do this work. Yes, we do. Thank you, Dr. Martinez. So here at CISA again, we understand how important it is to incorporate SEL into daily routines in the classroom. We loved looking in the chat and seeing the different ways that it's already happening and some of the ideas that are coming out from this session tonight. So yes, we have a third collection that helps students pay attention to things as they are right now with kindness and curiosity and really focusing on improving that emotion regulation that we know is so hard for some of our, a lot of our students. And so CISA has teamed up with Mind Yeti which is an award-winning mindfulness program to create calm, focused and kind classrooms through mindfulness. And in each of these lessons, students are gonna follow a guided mindfulness lesson then complete interactive activities that are really gonna deepen their understanding of themselves and their emotions. So we're gonna take a closer look at a Mind Yeti lesson and we're gonna explore hello feelings. And so all Mind Yeti lessons start and they either have a watch or a listen and then a try activity and then a connect activity as well. And in the watch or listen part, students watch a video or listen to a mindfulness lesson. We're gonna listen to a clip of this one. Welcome to Mind Yeti. Our minds have different kinds of hubbubbles, thoughts, feelings and sensations. Our feeling hubbubbles are all the different emotions or feelings like sadness, happiness or anger that we feel every day. Today, we'll take some time to notice our feeling hubbubbles. Before we begin, take a moment to sit comfortably with your back straight and your feet or legs resting on the floor. Great. So after listening or watching, students then do a quick emotional check-in and we prompt them here to use the drawing tool, the pen to share how they're feeling after listening to the episode. So right now I feel calm. So I'm gonna use that drawing tool to circle calm. Next, students move on to the try section of the lesson. Students are given some examples and then they're given a task to try. Now in this lesson, they share what they look like when they feel a certain way. And so I'm feeling super excited to be here with all of you and Dr. Martinez. And so I'm gonna use that drawing tool again to write excited. And then I'm going to use the camera tool and I'm going to take a picture of my excited face. There we go. Resize or remove it if I need to. Of course, students can use any of the multimodal learning tools in CSAW to complete this lesson, the video drawing tool, typing, whatever they would like. And then all of our mind yeti lessons end with a connect activity. That can be done as Tracy mentioned previously either with a partner in the classroom or at home with families to really connect that learning that's happening in the classroom to their learning at home. Which you probably saw as a common theme in a lot of our CSAW lessons that we do emphasize that learning loop at CSAW where we connect the educators, the families and the students all together in the learning because we know that when they all come together it's much more powerful for the students and deepens their learning. Great, so to support you and your students in learning to regulate and understand the motions we have three of these mind yeti activities for you. And as you can see, again, these can be used with all kindergarten through second grade, not one per grade level. And again, we will share these links at the end of the session in the participant handout as well as in the follow-up email. So now let's reflect on the three ways emotions influence learning and the three strategies that you can use in your classroom with Dr. Martinez.


Hey, so special treat today, Eric Johnson is in town. Eric's generally out in California, right? Yeah. He is our tech columnist, tech guru, knows everything there is to know basically about all things technology, which is why I asked him to hang out with me, because I know nothing. All right, so we're going to start with some three big stories that are happening in tech right now. All right. All right. You mentioned the battle of the platforms. I like this. But we're really talking about like Amazon versus Google versus who? We're talking about cloud infrastructure platforms. It's been a booming market over the last several years. I was like a lot of corporations move workloads that were previously in their own data centers to these giant like cloud infrastructures that Amazon, Microsoft, Google, IBM, various other companies have created. And they just like the convenience of not having to manage their own infrastructures. They also just like the speed at which they can load new apps or load new services that they might want to deploy. They also like all the advanced services that some of these platforms not provide in areas like IoT or analytics, various other areas. And the market's just been growing very rapidly. And it's been good news for Amazon and to a lesser extend Microsoft and Google. Who's winning? Amazon is easily the biggest of the bunch. I think they're on something like a $14 billion annual run right now for Amazon web services. Wow. They're a cloud infrastructure platform. And I think they're estimated to have like something like a 40% plus share of cloud computing and storage and like other basic infrastructure services. Holy cow. And like no one else is even at 10% right now. I think Microsoft might be around 7% or 8%. And then everyone else is smaller than that. I don't know if people associate Amazon with all that stuff. Yeah, it's funny how like AWS, as they call it, was built out. They originally built out. Wait, what is AWS? Amazon web services. OK. They originally built out this infrastructure just for their e-commerce business. They needed their own servers and their own storage or whatever else. And they realized there's value in leasing the stuff out to other people that other people will pay if they provide a high level of service. They can allow people to run these workloads faster than they could if they had to build out their own server infrastructures. And the business just quickly took off. It's amazing. Amazon's everywhere. I mean, it's in all aspects of our lives and aspects that we don't even know about because I think people like me presume Amazon is prime mainly because the delivery guy comes to my house like every day. And who knew about all the back stuff? Yeah, I mean, their ambition is clearly limitless. And it's often like the four or five giant consumer tech companies that everyone knows about. Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon. I feel like Amazon is the one that has the most unconditional love among people. Agreed. In terms of how people just seem to swear by, Apple has its loyalists, but there are other people who don't care for it. It's just everyone is obsessed with Amazon. Right, and almost don't care that it doesn't make a lot of money either. Yeah, I mean, you get to buy like all the time, doesn't it? That's by design. I think analysts know that Amazon could produce billions in cash flow if they wanted to. They're just investing so much in their fulfillment infrastructure and their video content and building out the data centers for AWS and in so many other things. People trust Jeff Bezos and his lieutenants to eventually make a payoff.  Which tech company in general. Yeah, Amazon, you said Amazon, Google, Microsoft, IBM. Who wins? Who do you pick? These companies have large businesses outside the cloud infrastructure. It's just not about that. But of those companies, I'd say like Microsoft and Google might be the ones I'd be more partial to right now. Amazon's a great company.  The valuation's a little high because of that. I feel like Google, the multiples are still fairly reasonable. It might be a little stretched right now. They've had a bit of a run up too, but it's not too much for how dominant they are in their core search ad business. Then you also factor in things like YouTube and all these other platforms that have over a billion active users. Do you place any weight in Amazon handmade, especially with the holidays coming up? Do I personally feel? Is it gonna make or break? No, it's a small percentage of your business. I feel like Etsy is still the leader when it comes to like craft and vintage goods. Amazon, I think they saw an opportunity to get in on that business a little bit, but it doesn't seem to be a large percentage of there like e-commerce volumes right now. I mean, the margins must be there though, why get in it? You know, they can make decent margins when they're providing these services to third-party sellers, like they already with handmade. They'll collect a commission. They might provide shipping services as well. They might provide advertising services that the sellers can promote themselves. So they can make some money out of it. I just don't think it's that large of a business. Is it all part of like this notion that it's the one-stop shopping? So like now I could buy fruits and vegetables on Amazon Fresh. I could order my kid new sneakers. And if I need a little cute homemade gift for the holidays, I go there too. I never have to leave. Yeah, there is something to do that. You know, they want to be a one-stop shop. They want people to load the Amazon app, just buy things via Prime and not like look at any other website, just assume everything's taken care of through that app. So that mindset, I'm sure, played a role in launching something like handmade. It kind of is taking care of like, I mean, at least in my house, I feel like. A lot of other houses too, I'm sure. I have to order light bulbs now. And I'm amazed that they come and they're not broke. Like they're so well-packaged. It's amazing. Okay, so second topic you brought up was autonomous driving. I love this idea because someday I am not actually gonna have to drive kids to school. Yeah, I mean, if you live in an urban area, you live in an area with a ton of traffic where you know, rush hours a nightmare, you know, it can be just a lot more convenient. You know, it can save a lot of time. If you can, you know, devote that time that you were previously driving to doing other things. Right. You know, you're pulling out your laptop maybe and getting some work done or whatever else.     Yeah, some people, you know, I'd say more in urban areas. You know, like if you, I think if you live in suburban or rural areas, it's going to take a longer time for people to give up their cars.  I mean, trusting it, making sure it's safe that conversation aside, doesn't that, that challenges Uber and Lyft, doesn't it? Yeah, and that's one big reason Uber's been investing so much in autonomous driving. I feel like they're behind Google and Tesla there, but they, you know, see it as a major long-term threat. You know, if they don't control the technology, if their technology isn't good enough and they have to like depend on a third party like Google or Tesla, then there's a risk that those companies could like support some other, you know, ride-sharing platform, you know, offer their technology to them. And then Uber would be kind of left out of the picture. I'm just thinking as a mother, right? Like if you could, if you get this autonomous driving thing down, it's safer for me to put my kids in a car with no one than a driver that I don't know what he or she is gonna do to my kids. Yeah, safety is definitely gonna be one of the big selling points, you know? Right. You know, some people have speculated a long run. They could even like ban regular human driving. Hope that doesn't happen.  Oh, you can take it. I'm over it.  So, when are you talking like, you know, what's down the line to you? Is it next year? Is it five years? You know, I think we might be like just few years away from having like something around like level four autonomy. Which is, it can level four autonomy is when a car can mostly take over for drivers, not all the time, but like in a solid majority of situations, it can take over for them. And, you know, I think we might be a few years away from seeing that, you know, Google and Tesla have been both making a lot of progress in that direction. But Google is gonna be rolling out this fleet of like self-driving cars that will actually have no human driver inside of them, even to monitor anything in Arizona. You know, it's just a test for now, but it shows that like even on, if they're doing that on a limited set of roads. It's close. Yeah, you know, it's. I would think though, like, if you're driving highway for a long period of time, that's probably an easy thing, not easy, but that's something an autonomous car could probably handle.  Then you might need to drive in the local roads. So what do you do? Hop over into the passenger seat, or do you just let the car go?  You know, Tesla recommends you keep your hands on the wheel while you're doing that. So you activate it, but meanwhile you can check your phone. Yeah. Sort of. Yeah, I mean, they tell people, you know, put your hands on the wheel, but in practice a lot of people don't. So who's winning the autonomous driving world right now? Like I've said, I feel like Google and Tesla are like, you know, ahead of like everyone else right now, just in terms of the R and D investments they've made, in terms of how many miles, you know, their self-driving cars have logged. And, you know, a ton of other companies are also like investing in the space. You know, most of the big automakers have kind of like realized that autonomous driving will eventually happen. Right, I mean, think of trucking, right? The whole trucking world could be changed forever. Those guys all could be added. As it is, they can't find people to drive trucks now, right? But the whole trucking business could be turned on its head.   Right, those poor guys, they fall asleep, they're driving for hours.  Yeah, I think Dodds are pretty good, you know. Like I said, I think level four is a pretty good possibility by that point. It's pretty crazy. All right, and the other big thing that you and I were talking about before is this infamous iPhone, I don't know what we call it. Do we call it the 10? Oh yeah, Apple insists on it being called the 10. Everyone's calling it the X anyway. Right, because it's the Roman numeral X. What, I mean, look, why do that? Actually, why cause the confusion? If you pay $1,000 for it, you should be able to call it whatever you want. I'm telling you, I think you should call it for dinner too. Like I think you should be able to make you dinner. Tell us about this phone and do you think it's worth it?   Yeah, yeah. You know, and just Apple put a lot of work into getting the little details right, I feel, with the interface, you know, it takes a little bit of adjusting. But you were saying you're not an iPhone user. No, I have an LG V20 myself. But yet you're impressed with it. Yeah, I mean, I feel at this point, you know, both, you know, iOS and Android have some unique strengths, but they get the beach, get the job done, their own ways for the vast majority of smartphone users. And Apple has, you know, sky high customer loyalty rates.  Because we're talking a thousand dollars. Yeah. Do you think that this will be like the hot seller this holiday? Yeah, it's gonna be one of the big ones, you know. Supply constraints are still kind of an issue, but they have been improving a little bit. Which means the phone will be available for people? For most people, yeah. Like right now, the shipping times are down to two to three weeks, you know, early on. Like they were around four to six weeks. So gradually they're getting better. So if you had to pick, would you buy the phone or the stock right now? That's a tough question, you know. It's, I feel like some of the easy money has been made with Apple, but the stock is still pretty cheap.  That's before accounting for all the cash they've got offshore. So it's still not a bad deal, you know, especially when you look at some of these consumer stocks that are trend for over like 20 times forward earnings, you look at like McDonald's or Nike, companies like that. And they've probably got less growth, you know, in the near term than Apple does, just because of the iPhone cycle. So the stock is, you know, still pretty reasonable.  What's the competitor to the iPhone X or 10, whatever we're calling it? Is there a similar phone out there? You know, there are phones with edge-to-edge displays, you know, like Samsung's Galaxy Note 8 and the S8. There's some various other Android phones that have created edge-to-edge displays. I feel like Apple, there's, they're, the iPhone X's design is a little sleeker in some ways. Because I think they're always accused of like being a step behind.  That's something Android makers might not have for a couple years. You know, I think they're all like scrambling now to match Apple. In terms of display quality, I think Samsung's up there with Apple right now. Yeah. You know, I thought like, in terms of the user interface, Apple did some unique things that arguably put them ahead of Android, you know, in terms of like getting rid of the home button at the bottom, but still not also having any soft keys at the bottom like Android phones do. Right. Taking up space. So they're, you know, various things Apple's done in that respect. The processor inside of the iPhone X and also the iPhone 8, the 810 Bionic, that's easily the fastest smartphone processor right now.  No, I think you're either on the Apple side of the fence or the Android, right? The two don't meet. Yeah. They don't seem to cross over. Your house is either Android or Apple, I feel like. Yeah, it can be, you know, I mean, now and then you'll have some people switch, but you know, loyalty rates are pretty high for both. Right. And part of it's just because, you know, people download so many iPhone apps or so many Android apps, you know, they'll get hooked on various services that come with each OS. And so there's a switching cost involved if they want to trump to the other one. All right, well, we're gonna have to see how this does or how many Christmas trees this phone ends up under this holiday season. Eric, next time you're in town, we gotta do this again. Sounds good. Thank you.