Pursuant to Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted by a remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner. By emailing stevemccarthias at mrstma.gov that's M-C-C-A-R-T-H-Y-S at mrstma.gov. No in-person attendance of members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time by a technological means. In the event that we are unable to do so for reasons of economic hardship, and despite best efforts, we will post on the Amherst website an audio or video recording transcript or other comprehensive record of proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting. With that done, we'll call the meeting to order at 501 p.m. and take a roll call. Guest on? Here. Hallie? Here. Dylan? Here. Doug? Doug, good to see you. Here. Here. Hello, Doug. All right, so we're all here. Okay, so the first thing on the agenda is public comment and this is general public comment unrelated to anything that is on the agenda. So if you have general public comment, please raise your hand by pressing the raise hand button at the bottom of your screen and Steve will let you in. Is there anyone here for that? Don't think so. Okay, so let's go on to our first item licenses, change of liquor license, manager application, town of Amherst doing business as Cherry Hill Golf Course, 323 Montague Road Manager. And this is the new one, Steve, Raynaud Harp. And the last one was Barbara Bills. Is that what I saw from the application? Yes. Okay, great. As in the audience, I have invited him to become a panelist. Okay, fantastic. And Mr. Harp? Yes. There you are. Hi, welcome. Hi. So, did you want to just introduce yourself and talk a little bit about? Sure. I'm Ray Harp. I'm the director of recreation for the town. We, I came in to the position with Cherry Hill as one of our properties here that we've managed. And for the last year and a half that I've been on, it has been under Barb Bills, my predecessor Barb Bills' name. We figured at some point we need to make that switch because last year she was still with us in an advisory capacity. So she signed off for us. This year she's not with us. And so we had to go to Paul to get, to get his signature as a town overseer. And we wanted to just change that to, to my name as the new director. Okay, wonderful. Thanks. Thank you very much. Does anyone have any questions about this application or comments? No, if not, is there a motion to approve the change of manager application to Cherry Hill? Don't move. Thank you. Doug, is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion about this? If not, we'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Hallie? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero, but change of manager application has been improved. Thank you so much for coming in. And best of luck with everything. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Okay. So next up is, we have the lunch carts. Can we have to do the seasonal liquor license? Oh, the seasonal liquor license renewals. I'll move to renew that license. Okay. Thanks. Is there a second? Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion? I assume not. We'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Oh, no, I'm going to be muted. Aye. Aye. Hallie? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero. The seasonal liquor license for Cherry Hill is renewed. Thanks, Doug, for that. Okay. So now we get to the lunch carts. So the first one is, Steve, are the people here for these two? Yes, they are. Okay, great. And we do these. Why don't you bring in S&P Foodies Hub, Incorporated Doing Business as Thai Chili Food Hub. All right. Supitra, you should be a panelist and able to speak. Oh, good afternoon. No. Hi. Hi. Welcome, Supitra. Hi. Would you like to give us an introduction about your lunch cart? All right. One moment, please. Oh, sure. My name is Supitra Hillen Brand, I'm the owner of the Thai Chili Food Truck. So I have been doing the farmer market at the Amherst Common for the Saturday for like, this is my third year already. And I find, you know, I have a lot of great feedback of, you know, like a people that came and support me. And I feel like since I'm already there in Amherst on, you know, Saturday, and you know, I found out from Susan Malone and then that your guys do allowing the food truck to park there now. So I feel like that would be something that would be more, you know, something that I would like to participate and be able to do it, you know, because I find that with my food that I offer, that support the local farmer and stuff like that, that I can bring it to the table, that, you know, the street food that I offer, and I'm already there, it can be a great benefit for, you know, like a student or like a patron that's coming to the town. So, and, you know, I'm thinking that I, that way I can, you know, doing more days in Amherst. Close. Okay, that all sounds, all sounds really good. Yeah, we're excited about it. Does anyone have any questions for Supisha? Yes. Or about the, oh, sorry. Does anyone have any questions for about the license or comments? Oh, yes, Gaston. Yes, hi. Thank you so much. We're excited to have more food trucks. One, I guess first question is, have you had a chance to review the food truck or I guess that's not the term we use, but are regulations that go through the various, I guess? I know that there's a three-designate spot location that I can park. And I know that I just have to, it's like a first come, first serve, I do have to pay for the meter and the regulation is timing between eight to eight. Okay, thank you very much. One of the other items that we have on the regulations relates to the sound and pollution that is created by generators. Can you tell us a little bit about how your truck is powered for the cooking? Yeah, my truck is powered by using the generator. It's the Honda, it's very, what do you guys see? Very effective, like it doesn't be too loud because right now, like for the past two years that I did the farmer market early in the morning, like seven o'clock and parking on the side street and so far I never have any complaint yet. And I think it's the one that we use is very effectively. Okay, all right, thank you. Thank you. Is there any other question for me? Yeah, I just have one question. I'm a little prepared looking at this week. I haven't a chance to review all the documents. Is what were the hours of operation that you were looking to kind of what days? Because the time on the application, it doesn't really say specifically what time or what day, but I'm looking at between like, probably like some Thursday and some Saturday or Sunday. Yeah. Yeah, and were you looking to do like a later evening? Kind of what was the album you were looking for? If I'm gonna do it, I'm probably gonna be done like around seven o'clock, probably like during the lunchtime, like 11.30 until maybe seven that I'm looking for. And I mean, are you looking at at any point to be able to operate later to try to get, you know, the end of the night student bar crowd? Is that, you know, an area you might be interested in trying to appeal to, like the- With the bar? Like where? Yeah, yeah, the post-bar scene, you know, usually getting a, you know- Oh. Mark, are you looking at to be about that at all? Or is that really something you're not at? For me, if there's an opportunity arise in Amherst, I would take that into consideration, because to be honest with you, I lost the restaurant during the COVID, so that's why I minimal myself into the food truck. And if there's a time that allow the food truck to go in and do something all year round, like Amherst is one of the surprisingly tall that I didn't expect that your guys allowing the food truck to park, you know? So that would be amazing for me, you know? And especially, I know like in Amherst, you know, when I do the farmer market, even in the summer, it's still a lot of people walking around downtown, you know what I mean? So that's why I'm just feel like Amherst would be a best opportunity for me. Well, I mean, I'm not entirely sure what's being asked for, but I'd certainly support, you know, I'm all for supporting this late night food truck. I'm a high person, well known. So just since you're not maybe seeing the application Dylan, the request was for 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. And so I guess I wonder whether you may wish to, you know, have a later time in this application. So you have more flexibility. Because it's on the application itself, it's only around from 8 to 8 to park, that's why. That's why I just have to put it like, yeah. So, but other than that, like I talked to Susan Malone, there are some, a lot of private property or something that if they might interest it to contact me and have me park over there, you know? I think it might be based on the owner property to write a letter or something and then I can submit to the town. Well, didn't we just approve one, Steve, until very late? Parked over by Kendrick? Yes, so applicants can request 8 to 8 to default, but applicants can request later hours if they so choose. Oh yeah, yeah, you can request some, sorry, go ahead. Oh no, no, exactly. Just to say that, there's actually not a restriction on that time. So would you like to apply with a later time? Is it, do I have to do a different application or can I just using the same application and extend it, just in case in the future? Steve, can she do that? Just right. Yeah, I think she could make a verbal request right here and the board can grant it. All right. If you'd like to do that, yeah. Yeah, I would request that then. So, yeah. So what kind of time are we talking about? Dylan, you have a view about this. What would be your suggestion? Yeah. I mean, my suggestion here, I would say given that, you know, where that new truck is set up that's going to later, it is right by a residence and I kind of wanted to kind of get down to that residence. You're not going to get their feedback, just how the noise impact has been. You know, we haven't solidified moving over to other side of the street, kind of right along the same street where spoke is. So I'd be down to, I'd be fine approving another lunch cart there with that same kind of temporary, you know, trial period, like we're doing this for the end of throughout the semester to kind of see how it goes. And then, you know, we'll reevaluate for next semester whether or not we need to move it if we're going to do late night lunch carts. That would be my thinking. I'd say definitely approve this till, you know, the later night till the end of May. And then we could keep the tanks for the rest of the summer. That's right. We are bringing the others back in in about four weeks. Is that right to talk and see how it goes? Does that sound good to everybody? Yeah. Yeah. Are there any questions about that? So Steve, how would we approve that? I guess she can pick out a time to request to operate until and the board can move to, so grant that. I don't know if there's the time in mind anybody has, but. I mean, I'll just say the same thing. Let's do, you know, eight till two in the morning, you know, they can let them pick kind of experiment, see what hours work for them and their businesses. And then when we all kind of meet back here, I guess around June, once the semester's over, we can get a sense of how it went for them. And then I'll try to see if we can get a sense for what's happening in the neighborhood in terms of noise and foot traffic. Okay. All right, sounds good. Okay. Doug, did you have a question? Sorry. I was just going to ask Steve if he recalls what we did for the other ones. What time was it one or two? And is there a limit on how late we can go? I believe that was until two. And I don't believe the regulations have any restriction on the maximum. Okay. So we do that. And how did we word that last time? It was an approval until eight to 2 a.m. with a requirement that the applicant comes in at the end of June sometime to see how it goes. It was a temporary, right? I'd have to check the minutes. I think it was the end of May. End of May. And is that going to be enough time? Oh, sorry, guest on. You're muted. Oh, and Doug, did you have something to say? I think the issue that was leading us to have them come back was the location more so than the time. So I guess I'm prepared to move to approve this application changing the hours to 8 a.m. to 2 a.m. Okay. And I believe the late hours or different hours are restricted to specific locations. There's no limit on the number of locations that could be done for, but is there a location in mind that the board would like to grant this for? Or all pre-approved locations? I mean, I'll take that. I'd like to see, I guess, over by Kendrick because it seems like we're going to be getting food cart area going there. So I'd say by Kendrick till 2 a.m. And if we wanted to approve, you know, 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. or 8 p.m. for other locations as a separate one, I'd support that too. Yeah, with the license by default, they'd get the normal hours in all the normal locations. The late is just needs more specificity. Okay. So in that case, I just, to Kendrick Park till 2 a.m. until whenever our first meeting is in June. Does that sound good to everyone? Any objections to it or questions about it? So the motion I would suggest is to approve the license and also approve operating times until 2 a.m. in that Kendrick Park location until May 31st. Okay. Does that sound fine to everybody? Sipisha, any questions about that? Does that sound good to you? Yes. Okay. Is that, does someone like to make that motion? I think Gaston did. Okay, Gaston just made it. Did you make that motion? With what Steve added, move to approve the application as submitted with the addition that from 8 p.m. until 2 a.m. the food truck can do business at Kendrick Park. Okay. Yeah. So does that mean this Saturday I can talk into Amherst now? Yes. Yay. Exciting. Yeah. That's a second for me. All right. Thank you, Doug. Any further discussion about this? Hearing none, we'll take a vote. Doug. Hallie. Hi. Gaston. Hi. Dylan. Hi. And I vote aye. That's five to zero. That license is approved. Thank you so much for coming in. Thank you. Bye bye. Good luck. Okay. So the next one is the ice cream food truck. And this is scooping up smiles, LLC, ice cream emergency. And do we have, I will be, I actually will be. So we did. So Adele, you should be able to speak right now. Hallie, I may have accidentally demoted you to the audience, but I changed it back. What you may have to turn your camera and microphone on my apologies. There we are. It's okay. Hello, everyone. Hello. Hi. Welcome. Thank you. So you have an ice cream truck, right? Yeah. My sister and I, we just started ice cream emergency. It's a model ice cream truck and it's been a blast. We actually were out on the town green last week with the fundraiser with the Daffodil race. So we made our first debut last week. Fantastic. Very exciting. And you have, you're looking for a new food truck license for Amherst and let's see. Do everyone have a chance to look over the application? There any questions about this or comments or guests on? Well, I mean, you probably heard the line of questioning before. And so one of them is just, have you had a chance to read over our food truck regulations? So not completely. I'll be honest with you. We are still, as we're new, my sister and I, so we've been going for about a month now. We're still trying to figure out our business model and wondering if we're doing more catering, more vending and all of that. But of course, being a new business, we need to do it all. So when we heard about this through Steven and Susan, when we were applying for the other permits, we're like, hey, this sounds pretty cool as well. To be honest with you, I've been so out of the bar scene and the late night out in Amherst. I don't know where they would be but we're definitely interested in having other opportunities to do some vending and support the community. Well, just on that question, in addition to spelling out the nuts and bolts, we also have this request or desire to have the less loud generators and when that's possible. And I wonder if you could comment on that. I'm also not seeing the times that you are- Not the times of that. So I think that we would think more around lunchtime-ish is what I would think. And then also hearing about the late night, that might be something that we would be interested in too. So I wasn't quite sure how to gauge that timing but I'd love it if it's a sunny day and a nice day and we don't have another event, something too. If we can just pop on over, that really intrigues us. But I'm thinking not too early, unless someone really has an ice cream emergency at eight in the morning, but usually not. I guess you do need power. So how do you get your power? Yes, so we have a generator as well. It is the Honda and I have to tell you multiple people have been like, oh, your generator is even on and I'm not familiar with how many generators are and I've been told it's very quiet. So- Thank you, perfect. Yeah. All right, great. So are you interested in the... So I know that we've just kind of been the last two food trucks we've done and kind of been granting this later night, these later night hours for that location. Are you also interested in that? I'd love all opportunities if possible as long as there's no, you know, if it really is just on our scheduling as well, if there's something that you guys are wanting us to commit to, I just wanna have transparency amongst us all, of course. So, but I think it'd be fun. Okay, did everybody have a question? Oh yeah, sorry, go ahead, Dylan. Yeah, I was just gonna kind of respond to that. I mean, I think the idea right now is, you know, we use the board to kind of testing out this idea and seeing how it works, you know, seeing if we get any input from the community. The other side of that too is, yeah, we want you guys to kind of experiment as a business, as a food truck, you know, try it out. Does an ice cream truck at one in the morning when the bar is closed, you know, is that a killer time for you guys? Awesome, keep it going. If not, let us know that you'll probably be sticking more towards the traditional daytime hours. Sure. Do you foresee, I know once the UMass students in all the area of colleges go back to school, does that really diminish from what you've seen like all the night crowd and whatnot, I'd assume as much? Yes. The night crowd, yes, definitely. Okay, so that might be where we, you know, this month if we have a few, it'd be great to test it out.  Yeah, Doug. The other thing I was thinking is that, you know, in summer, which is gonna be a bit of a better season for you than January or December, I'm guessing, but the other thing is by, you know, the sort of default hours are 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., so by extending the hours, you know, past that, you know, in June, the sun doesn't set until 9 o'clock, so people are off and out and about, even with just families and stuff, till 8, 9 o'clock, so like, you know, those extended hours, you may not need a state of one, you can do what you choose, but what you may find is there's a sufficient number of people that want ice cream into the, not the late evening, but, you know, later than the sort of standard 8 p.m. timeframe, so you may find that works for you. So, you know, I'm open to the idea of, you know, granting extended hours as well. Okay, so sounds good to me too. So should we, if anybody has another question, shall we do a motion just like the last one, or, and how did, does that sound good? Doug, do you want to take a stab at it? So moved. All right, so Steve. We'll make, Steve put in the minutes with the... The same one again, except with the ice cream. Okay, and is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. Any further discussion? If not, we'll take a vote. Gaston? Aye. Dylan? Aye. Hallie? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero. The application is approved. It is approved. Thank you so much, and best of luck. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Thanks, very good. Bye-bye. Have a good night now. You too, bye. Bye-bye. Okay, so now we have a new common fixtures license application, Campus Pizza, LLC, 150 Fearing Street. And is there anyone here? Yes, he is. Oh, okay. But anybody came to be a palace. Okay. This is... Hello. Hello, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. And so you are campus, is it Campus Pizza? Yes, Campus Pizza on... Campus Pizza. Okay, great. Welcome. So would you like to introduce your application? So I wasn't aware that I had to be here for it, but I'm a little bit of an ojah. I'm an alum of UMass, and I just recently procured the Sunset Pizza and Grill, and it's gonna be a pizza place, just like it's been for I think the last 30 years or so, pizza, grinders, salads, and yeah, and we're just changing the name really. Oh, fantastic. If I answer any questions you guys might have. Wonderful, thank you. Does anyone have any questions about the application? I mean, I guess just thank you. Nice to see businesses getting new life. And I'm just curious about the continuity, whether the employees are continuing. And I'm just wondering about how it's working with your purchase. So, so far we've been anxiously waiting to get approval to open. To the best of my knowledge, there was a rotating employee base based on the students. And I have started interviewing and I'm not sure how many will be able to join me right away as the semester is ending. Got it. But going forward, as the colleges do come back, we do plan on having a large part of our front end, the counter, the delivery, and everything from as much as we can from the students to keep continuity, we will be looking to have more full-time kitchen staff. So, but they'll supplement and we're just trying to reach out in the best way possible and make a good product. And the kids fed. So, after they're done with their bar trips. Right. No doubt. And is this your first restaurant? No, my family and I also own the India House in Northampton. Oh, yeah. Yeah, great. This is my first solo venture. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. Ellie? I think your predecessor, who you bought it from had for a period of time at least use the BYOB license. Is that something you're looking to continue as well? I think the students have more, predominantly looking at our, at our research, I feel like a big, most of a majority of our clients will be the students. And I think they have ample access to alcohol. They don't need me providing them alcohol. So I'd rather just sober them up with food and, but if it turns out to be something that we want to pursue in the future, I will definitely apply and come back to the commission to get your approval. Thank you so much. Any further questions? If not, is there a motion to approve the common victor's license for campus pizza? No moved. Thank you, Doug. Is there a second? Second. Thanks, Dylan. Any further discussion? If not, we'll take a vote. Doug? Aye. Dylan? Aye. Hallie? Aye. Gaston? Aye. And I vote aye. That is five to zero. The application is approved. Thank you so much for coming in and best of luck. Thank you very much. Glad you're there. Bye. Okay, so that's all the licenses for the day. And now we can move on to Mandy Chauhanike and Rob Moore who are here. Thank you so much for waiting and the rental registration bylaw discussion, residential rental property bylaw, sorry. And I think at our last couple of meetings we weren't able to get to this too much. And Mandy, thank you so much. Mandy did send around some scenarios which I think we'd asked for about when an appeal might come before us and what types of situations might lead to that appeal. So I don't remember, has everyone looked at those? Do you remember have those to mind? I think I have them somewhere. But since we have them both here, are there any questions, initial questions about it or? I wonder if you could just kind of take us through those examples so that we can visualize the need and how well we are prepared to serve that need. Right, I think the first one, and Mandy, correct me, is the multiple that had a temporary permit and needed to make a consistent repairs to the property and had failed to do so, was that right? And then ultimately was denied, was that right? Yeah, we've got a conditional permit option written into the bylaw right now for the inspection fails. And this one, I will say, I kind of just made these up. And I'm thinking maybe these are some that the building commissioner might deny a permit for but you can probably say more. But for this one inspection happened, it's conditional permit, you get 30 days, it's still not fixed, you get another 30, it's still not fixed. So in the end, the commissioner says, I'm just denying your permit, we're done. Like you're just not showing initiative. So, and then the owner would appeal. Right, and then that would come before us. I'm just trying to, like on what grounds would we be well-positioned to say, Rob really screwed this up, he's not being reasonable. We're gonna overturn his judgment that on this inspection license. Rob, would you like to answer that? Hi, everyone. Hi, welcome. Thank you.  I think the board or the commission's gonna be in a position to ease up on the penalty or whatever is imposed on the applicant, whether it's a denial, setting a timeframe to be able to reapply. I'm thinking this is gonna be more used in the suspension or revocation scenarios where appeals and your work would be needed. And I say that expecting that we're gonna be making some big changes if this by-law gets adopted on how we operate currently as a complaint response only program to a more active code enforcement, proactive code enforcement department and being more aggressive for properties that have non-compliance. I think we really have to make that shift. And I think this commission will hear appeals and be able to decide if improvements that are proposed by the owner, some sort of a compliance plan or perhaps even a new owner. In some cases, the properties change hands that when during a suspension or a revocation and the commission could hear a new owner's perspective on the property and decide to set aside that suspension and give them a trial run or whatever it might be. So I think that's gonna be the role for the commission under appeals. So it sounds like the space would be for us to basically grant mercy. Exactly, instead of justice. But you know, this is something I teach in my class. There's ways of different ways of thinking about justice but it's just that the rules exist for safety and if you've made your judgment, Rob, it's based on your professional assessment of condition and remediation. And I'm really struggling to see how we would feel well-positioned to say, you know, Rob's being too strict here. We're gonna side with the owner. So the bylaw is at least in its current form is shaping up to be very prescriptive on the penalties. So if there's three offenses or whatever it might be, however the numbers work out and a suspension is for six months, the bylaw is stating that. So, you know, I think it's going to be under appeal where given the certain circumstance and I might even be supportive of it that, you know, the 90 day suspension, maybe that's enough in a case where it actually was a six month suspension and here's why. So I think this bylaw is taking away a lot of that discretion that we have now. And as you probably know, we don't suspend permits. That wasn't the intention of the current program. So I think with those prescriptive measures in place, there will be that opportunity to consider certain things. And I, you know, aside from where I started with this conversation, it absolutely is an opportunity for the commission to make sure that all the proper steps were followed. I'm confident that would happen, but you never know. And other people will be in this position someday. Things can happen. So I think that is a role that is of the commission and a, you know, what the applicant deserves is to be able to make that case to the commission and have that heard. Oh, so just to give them an opportunity for some kind of public hearing. And what is that you're saying? Well, the opportunity to state their case that maybe there was an error in the flaw in the process that may not come down to whether or not, you know, the plumbing was leaking, you know, that might not be the issue. This commission will not be making judgment on a code matter. That would be, you know, something that's handled through the state appeals process. They won't be, you won't be making decisions about zoning violations. It's more about the process and where we go from there to get the permit reinstated. OK. Yeah, Gaston?  And it sounds like this is being drafted so that you actually have, you don't have a lot of discretion on these questions. Your office doesn't have discretion on some of these questions, Rob, right? And Mandy? We're going back and forth on the final languages, you know, about shells and maize. And, you know, I think I keep trying to loosen it up a little bit. But, you know, it certainly has started off to be, you know, a lot of shells. And I understand why people want to see things happen. And I think we will be aggressive, whether or not no matter what the language says, but I'll let Mandy add to that. Yeah, so we've removed a number of the things that would cause a suspension or revocation to begin with. And then the denial, the denial is a little more straightforward, as Rob said, in terms of if you don't meet the requirements, it should be denied. But we do have that conditional permit in there to try and allow things to be worked out before a denial. But for suspension or revocation, what we have right now is that the code official may revoke or suspend when there have been more than three notices of violations issued within three years. And so, you know, given what Rob has said, what I could see is if he's, you know, if our town's just having problems getting compliance with someone and those three notices of violation have been issued, Rob may choose to suspend. And the first suspension, we've got timings into how long that suspension is. The appeal allows the Board of License Commissioners to, the big one is to enter into the consent agreement. And so if Rob chooses to suspend, maybe that has been, his decision is to the only way to get cooperation. It's sadly to send it to you, right? For that consent agreement. That, you know, in some sense that or something else. There's other options for enforcement. Beyond the suspension, but that's one way to sort of start that negotiation between the town and the owner, if there just has not been cooperation, is to issue that suspension and then bring it to you. So I think Rob's basically right on this. And then what Gaston said, you'd be, in some sense, granting that mercy, but being that facilitator of conversation, if the relationship has potentially broken down so much that whatever Rob's office has been doing has not been working for whatever reason, is one thing I would say. But yeah, we're still going back and forth on it. I mean, I guess my question is, why shouldn't Rob be able to establish, enter into the consent agreement that is a variation on the options that are now given to him? Why do you need us to get into the consent agreement? So Rob gets to issue orders to remedy right now. And those are basically for inspection violations. I guess there could be other ones. Rob could correct me, which has all of the follow-up and all. And so there's a lot of leeway there. I think the thinking from CRC is once Rob has made a choice to suspend that a separate entity or a different body would, given what KP law has told us, would give them the due process that KP law has suggested we provide in the by-law and has a separate entity. Yeah, I don't want the board of licensed commissioners to just be a kind of kabuki theater so that KP law feels like they gave you good advice. I think the other thing is, from CRC's point of view, and this is based on conversations, given some of the things we've done with other things, sometimes getting it out of the main enforcing body can be helpful for whatever reason. But in cases where Rob may choose to suspend, may he also choose some kind of tailored alternative to suspension of the sort that we might come up with under the proposal. So right now, and you brought up a good point that we don't have the consent sort of thing within the penalty sections. But that's in the suspension procedures and what the board of licensed commissioners can do. But what we do have is one of the abilities Rob has is to appoint a person in charge before suspending. He can require that a different person in charge be appointed as part of the penalties for violating the bylaw. So there are some things that can be done before suspension or revocation. We could think about it if the board requests that we put consent decree into those options too. We can certainly think about that and I can bring that back to CRC. Rob's got his hand. Yeah, Rob. I just want to mention that we also have the ability to establish inspection schedules. And that really would be our first approach in a situation of non-compliance is that we would mandate additional inspections by our office. And so I think there definitely would be a number of steps that had occurred before a suspension took place, attempts to bring the property into compliance. These are things we do now, including written agreements with owners and sometimes tenants are involved with those agreements to get to compliance. So we would still continue with those efforts. I think it's one that gets past that and we're not getting the results we're looking for. Then we're faced with suspension as a real option. And I just want to raise my hand for one thing. The consent agreement is also an option for Rob. Once suspension has happened. So it's part of the bylaw section, I don't know what the M3. So it's not under the penalties, it's under the section with suspension and revocation procedures. And one of the things is once it says the code officials empowered during the course of an administrative inquiry on suspension to enter in a consent agreement. So that can be done potentially instead of an appeal. So then it seems like the genuine role we might serve is just where the nature of the process means there's really bad blood between this owner and the code official. And we get called on as it's like they go to the other parent to see what we think. Potentially or if they don't like or can't reach an agreement on a consent agreement with the building commissioner after suspension, I could see that happening too. Yeah, Rob, did you have a question? Well, I just wanted to respond to that a little bit. And I would tell you about a recent case where the landlord's attorney got involved very aggressively contacting me, telling me all the things I can't do. And was really having trouble with the idea of issuing a daily fine for his client's non-compliance. And he filed appeal to the zoning board of appeals to have his opportunity to argue that and wasn't interested in discussing it with me any further. We still talk today. It's not like we don't communicate with each other. But he was in complete disagreement and wanted his opportunity to take it to a higher authority. And ultimately withdrew his appeal just before actually making his argument. And the property was found to be in compliance. But that has happened four or five times that I could think of over the years on matters that probably would be more directed under the appeal of this bylaw. But the zoning bylaw was a place that we do it at that time. OK. Doug, did you have something to say or a question? No? OK. I had a question. Yeah, go ahead, Dylan. Is there anything to be done in this bylaw? It would just be after so many attempts, somebody's like blocked out. There's no more going through the building commissioner than pass the bill toward the board of license if they want something reinstated. Did everyone catch that? Yeah, I don't believe there is. OK. I think our suspensions are six months. Right now it's six months and then 12 months. And so once that 12 months would be over, if you're currently under suspension, you can't reapply for a permit. But once the suspension is over, I don't think we've got any inabilities to reapply if you're not under a suspension. OK. Yes, Gaston. I guess I'm thinking based on Rob's comments that if we get an appeal, the party appealing is likely to be represented by council. There's a good chance. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I'm seeing more and more of that. You know, as soon as we get into some of these more serious situations, there's immediately representation. Both from landlords and from tenants now that works. You know, we're seeing quite often. OK. Is it? Oh, yeah. Sorry. Oh, I was just going to if it's all right, Marianne. Yeah, OK. Relative to that, I mean, I think that parallels what we see with legal license violations. And we have Brian from KP that joins us. It would probably be him, but maybe someone else from KP that would provide some support for us if we needed some particular legal interpretation on that. I mean, it's not quite as well defined as and prescriptive as the as the liquor license violations. But but I think we can parallel that and we would want to if they were coming for us to have that that support from council. OK, Gaston. Is there is it an option for the commission to be able to deliberate in private over our determination in such an appeal? I mean, I'm just remembering when we were put on the spot with Porta. I mean, it's, you know, it's to be a court that deliberates publicly on these kinds of questions that have pretty serious stakes for the party appealing. You know, that's courts don't do it if they don't want to.  And now we're called on to make a determination that could have hundreds of thousands of dollars of implication. And so it's it's a little daunting to have to deliberate over that in front of everybody. And I wonder if if it's a constitutional requirement in this town for that to go that way. K.P. Low would be the final I was just saying K.P. Low would be the final arbiter. But given what we've heard on the council about appointments and how they have to be done in public, my guess would be as a public body, you'd have to do it in public. OK. Yeah, I was just going to suggest that we ask Steve to check with the council, Matt, because I think. You know, if there are aspects of the of the liberation that we might want to have, you know, it may be a thing where we might be able to go into an executive session or like you say, a sort of non-public component of it, but have some aspect of it definitely have to be public. So it's it's it's worth getting a legal opinion about that. For sure, I think. I mean, I'll just say again, what my my my discomfort with this whole process, this whole possibility is that, you know, we're not we're not we're not very good at ruling against the town as a commission, given the kind of work we do. And it would be, you know, it would be worse than than providing such an appeal to have an appeal that that seems to be a pure formality and destined to fail. And so that's why I'm being so, I guess, persistent to make sure there's actually a meaningful space for us to reach our own judgments and that that that may not be exactly what the town wants. And and that we are competent to do that.  You know, in a certain sense, as we've had to deal with, it's been fairly clear the the the actions that we need to take. But at the same time, there's perhaps a lot more subtlety and nuance to this. And and I think that's where it to guess on point, you know, either a rubber stamp or we actually legitimately, you know, deliberate and and make decisions. And that's difficult to do in a fully public arena. So yeah, I think that's that's well worth exploring a little bit and understanding what our options are and in whether there can be it may be something where there's components of it that can be done privately so that you can have that richer conversation that publicly would not be best serve anybody well, quite frankly. Yeah, I agree. I think the only time I think the only comparable thing that's coming to mind is when we had to revoke the high horse because that was landlord. I think it was a landlord tenant issue there, too. Right. And with lit, I think was something slightly similar. And that was also, again, we weren't reeling against the town. It was a private individual. And but it was it was it wasn't necessarily clear cut, I think, with high horse easy to ask for extra time. So OK. Yes, Mandy, I just want to say if BLC, if the board's not comfortable with the appeals, CRC would like to hear that and know that and love to hear any other options as to where the board might think it best to send appeals or whether the board would recommend we don't even have appeals, you know, we're we're not set on any one thing. We're really seeking your thoughts on this. And so if the thoughts are, we're not comfortable and you've got a better option or have a suggestion for a better option, we'll take that. OK. All right. Steve. I wanted to mention, I do believe that the statutory exemptions for allowances to go into executive session are pretty restrictive. But I do know that when the ABCC itself deliberates on appeals from local licensing authorities, they do have, you know, much more of a quasi-judicial format where they'll take testimony and then, you know, we'll kind of end the end the hearing and send send deliberate and send their decision on at a later date. So they're very well made be some kind of exemption there. But I do think it'll be a question for counsel. OK. So we should find that out, definitely. And, Gaston, I can see you have a question. I think that the space that I feel most comfortable that we've talked about is where we can come in and help create a happy compromise or we're we're hearing a happy compromise and. But I I think that we haven't we haven't been able to pinpoint exactly what that would look like, what case would put us in that position. OK. Oh, there's Dylan, who's first Dylan or Steve? Unless you want to go, Steve, I'll go. Yeah, right. I mean, I'll say that to maybe your question. I mean, one, just just an alternative, if you're looking for an alternative, I do think the ZVA is probably a board that is quick to handle this kind of thing. Oh, you're giving it its nature. But I will also say I think the board of licensing could also be well. What to do it sounds like, you know, the new bylaw or relatively new board. I think this could certainly be an area of, you know, some experimentation here to kind of figure out a good approach on how to handle this thing. I think, yeah, as it comes to us, I think that's really shown. It's really not entirely clear how we're going to handle that, but I think it's a board where we're equipped to explore that question. So I think personally, the board of licensing is a great place to send it. But I guess if you have a more defined idea of how that appeal should look, I do think the zoning board of appeals would be a good place to send it. It's a much more established body in its role and how it handles this sort of thing. So I guess that's a real question there, you know, we're looking to experiment. Hey, send it over to the board of licensing. I'm getting to try it all out, too. Yeah. Yeah, Doug, and then Steve. Yeah, I think the couple of things I'll mention is that I think that there's a. I mean, I think there aren't particular to work out to guess on fines. I think it's right. It doesn't want to be, you know, a charade by any stretch. But I think having, you know, appointed versus elected citizens way on this is good because we have an independent. And we're not as not as the hold into the voters in some respects.  I think that's helpful. I think also having a citizen group that can weigh in on this is helpful as well. It's it it I think might potentially prevent, you know, like we didn't have any appeal process whatsoever. Then the next step of remediation for these folks is to go to court. Because you're going to impinge upon their ability to run their business, right? And so this might prevent some of that. But I think it's, you know, the devil's in the details, as you well know you know, sort of what parameters and what space we're going to operate in. But I think there's there's broad reasons for for us that I think it's helpful for having an appeal process and having a group like the BLC be a group to do that. But anyway, I think we still have some more open questions, right? Thanks, Steve, did you need to say something? Do you have another question? My hand was up from earlier. But while I have the floor, I would be happy to reach out to counsel on this question of executive session. Man, do you like me to do that? Or do you have an attorney you're working with already that you think would be better positioned? So I had sent the last draft off to Paul to send over to KP law. So I can just append this question to that when I let him know that I met with you and they had the question so that they send it to whoever they want since they already have a copy. I'm not sure who at KP law he sent it to. It was probably Lauren, but I just can't guarantee. OK, they'll be well positioned to answer. All right, thank you, Dylan, Dylan, and then we'll get to you, Gaston, Dylan. I didn't have anything. I was. Oh, OK. Gaston, sorry about that. It's right. Mandy, since if you're going to add that question, I wonder if you can also ask them to look at the scenarios you came up with. And and have them a pine on what's the kind of scenario that is really most likely to show up and if they have thoughts about about that. I mean, I I'm with Dylan on the experimentation. I'll tell you that the case that I that made me the most uncomfortable was actually after the pandemic, when we were trying to think about how much to reduce some some fees. And we were kind of in an adversarial situation between Gabrielle Gould and Bob Ackleman. And that was very uncomfortable for us, at least from my point of view. And so being adjudicators of an adversarial process where the town is on one side and. I mean, in this case, it was someone else who we like to work with. That was hard. But I can just imagine that it might be hard in some of the some similar ways. All right, thanks, Gaston. Dylan, does you have another question? No, OK, I'm sorry, I'm seeing your hand button. I lowered it for you, Dylan. I had it up from. OK, OK, great. Thank you. So we are going to get the opinion of the council. Steve, your hand is up yet. But to Mandy, Joe's earlier question.  And we did have unanimous interest in pursuing this. So maybe to give her a little clarity, I mean, is that still the case that you all are still interested in taking this on? You're concerned with the the perception and the reality of fairness? Absolutely, I think so. Yes, definitely. OK. You should all be gables, though. Yeah. OK, great. Any other questions, anything else we wanted to talk about? Well, we have Mandy and Rob here. And, Mandy, I know you had to go around six, right? Yeah, I have to be at the high school at six thirty. Oh, OK, all right. Well, if there are no other questions for Mandy, thank you so much for coming in and talking about this. Really, really useful. Very interesting. And any other questions for Rob? No, OK, Rob, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you both for working on this. It seems like it'll be a huge improvement for the town. Yeah, definitely. So that's great. Thank you. All right. Thanks, Rob. Bye, Rob. Bye, Mandy. OK, so next up is our future agenda items. So obviously we've got to keep talking about rental registration. So but I guess we can wait to hear back from the attorney before we get into it too much. And then we had, let's see, we had Doug adult use. Is there anything going on with that? Do you want to put it on for next time or do we need to hold off on a little bit? No, I think I think putting it on next time would be a good idea. OK, it's last night looking through some stuff. You know, just getting myself reoriented to where I was and what I had at that point in time. And so you know, I'm hoping in a couple of weeks, yeah, I'll have something more concrete to sort of share with you guys on it and keep it moving forward. OK, all right, great. So we'll put that on for next time. I know Steve, we also wanted to talk about maybe in the summer, including Steven, I talked about expanding the locations for lunch carts since since we have some more interest, apparently. I think making a few more locations automatic with the license would be really nice. So we'll put that on maybe not for next time, but maybe towards June sometime. Yeah, the next meeting would be, excuse me, the next meeting after that would be June 1st. So actually that would be the day after our experiment ended. So maybe we can put that on for then. OK, great. Debrief with the lunch cart operators and. Fantastic. Think about that. That is good. And then is there anything, a big license, anything coming up, Steve? White line, brewery should be for the 18th. OK, great. So that may take a little time. Right time, brewery. And we'll do it. Don't use marijuana. We're going to are we going to hold off on rental regulations until we hear from the attorney? Yes, or do we want to just start talking about it? Next time. No. What does everybody think? No, I mean, I'd rather get feedback first. OK, is that OK with everybody? All right. And then we also wanted to at some point get into the flammable flammable liquids, which we didn't get to do. But that's a bigger project. I'm very interested in that one. So that'll be some time in the summer, maybe we can start on that. OK, any other. Oh, sorry. Now we're on to topics not anticipated. Forty eight hours. Oh, wait, oh, yeah, before we move off entirely. I mentioned this when we were talking lunch cards. Because, yeah, where they where they set up right now, their generator, but it's not silent either. And it is directly outside of a resident that I can see at night.  So this weekend, I want to try to feel like and just swing by the neighborhood, knock at the door, see if anyone's there, kind of get their feedback. Steve, I want to get your take. Can I come grab like a business card from you or something? So I'm like, hey, if you guys have questions or interested in attending one of these meetings to get feedback, like, you know, to reach out to Steve McCarthy, sure. Can I kind of do something like that? Yeah, you can certainly do that. Yeah, OK, great. I mean, we couldn't get him to that June 1st meeting to get us to be back. Got it. So it's June 1st is the meeting. That's the Thursday. Yes. OK. Yeah, when I when I get ahold of them, I'll let them know. You want to get feedback June 1st is the day. OK, or they can email Steve, but you know, or email Steve any feedback, whatever they like. All right. OK, anything else for the agenda? No, any topics not anticipated 48 hours prior to the meeting? No, OK. Our next meeting is what is it, the 18th? Is the 18th at five that work for everybody? OK, great. Is there a motion to adjourn? Do we have a set of minutes to review? Oh, jeez. Sorry about that. Right. Sorry. Going too fast. Did we get a chance to look at the minutes? Yes. Are there any questions about the minutes? No. Is there a motion to approve the minutes? To move. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. We'll take a vote. Dylan? Aye. Doug? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Hallie? Aye. And I vote aye. 5 to 0, the minutes are approved again. Great. Now is there a motion to adjourn? To move. Thank you. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Dylan. We'll take a vote. Hallie? Aye. Dylan? Aye. Gaston? Aye. Doug? Aye. And I vote aye. We're adjourned at 6 or 7 PM. Thanks, everybody. See you on the 18th. Bye. Bye. See you. Thank you, everybody. Thanks, Steve.


Hi, good afternoon, everyone. My name's Will, and I'm here with my colleague, Ayan, from the Nock. And we're going to show you some funny photos of what we did to build the network here. So what's the network actually for? Here is our vision, our strategic goals, and all that blah. We wanted to give everyone gigabits, really, these days, some decent Wi-Fi, which has worked pretty well. And also, in line with our aims of having, basically, properly provision-enhanced connectivity, filter-free, net neutrality, all those things you hear in the papers these days. And we wanted to have a lot of fun while doing it, and maybe top our hands up. So how do we design this? Well, we have an intersection team which goes and does various hacker camps. So it means we kind of run different size networks every year, almost, these days. But this is the biggest one ever, obviously. We had 37 Darden clothes, which is maybe 15 more than the previous time we've done an event. 47 fiber cables laid across the fields, totaling 7.2 kilometers, 78 Edge switches, and just over 100 wireless access points. We decided to run a collapsed core for this event to reduce interdependencies. So everything, as much as possible, goes back to a central location.   And one of the problems we came up with, appeared during our planning for this event, is that we weren't able to, without lots of special measures, to really go very deep into the soil because there's unknown cables, and there were really quite a lot of train tracks as well, which make running cables different, difficult. So we didn't do this. We did, however, manage to do this during the build-up. Fibers do not generally survive being run over by a train, and this one is kind of broken. This was due to an accident, basically. Anyway, no harm done there. So this actually all required quite a lot of planning, and we did this in a lot more depth than previously. We teamed up with Avok for planning in OpenStreetMap. We then were able to do a lot of automation of the cable selection and putting the right cables into the right places using OpenStreetMap API and some tools we built ourselves. And the side effect of having all that information available is that it was then publicly available to you guys, so you can see where the dot and close are if you look at the CamperMap URL. And it enables us to check the design properly and generally sort of make sure that we don't spend ages pulling a cable to find it's five meters too short, which is really super frustrating. Here's a plan extracted from that of the site. You probably won't be able to see it because the site is quite large. But you can check this online, but you can see our main cable routes across the site here, which are the green lines. And really we wanted to get to everywhere that you guys occupied. And here is another diagram you won't be able to see, which is our physical infrastructure. And what we actually do is have a lot of multi-core fiber cables which are connected together. And what this means is that basically we have light paths all the way from say an edge dot and crawl the way over there back to the NOC data center. It means that if there's any, for instance problems with power or similar in there or equipment in a more peripheral location, then that won't affect, it won't have as large an impact and then therefore makes the network more reliable for you guys. Uplink, well we had to get the internet here.  There's not a great deal of infrastructure, but then we found actually about two kilometers that way. There is a large high voltage line and using our contacts, we were able to get those guys to give us a 10 gig wave back to Berlin, which is great. And to those of you who've seen our presentations about Congress networks, meant we could do much the same thing. So yeah, there's a splice enclosure on a pylon. This is it, about two kilometers from the site. But it wasn't all that simple because there's a river there, there's also a lake the other side. So we would have to carry the fiber quite a long way. So we used a lot of this lightweight fiber, which actually two kilometers of this only weighs 20 kilos, so you can actually pick it up and carry it around. So we had to cross the lake. Our experiment showed that the canoe, the two-man canoe was actually better on rolling the fiber than the rubber boat because you could just put a stake through the spindle and unwind it. So yeah, canoes seem pretty good for that purpose. So yeah, we had an interesting time. I can't actually use a canoe. So yeah, it took some time. We, of course, yeah, here is the fiber in the canoe. And we had to do obviously some splicing out in the field, so there's quite a lot of sitting, getting stung by insects and all that kind of stuff. A lot of you know about the rodent damage. In fact, I have some of the offending pieces of fiber here if anyone wants to come and have a look at them. And this obviously had quite some coverage and lots of people found this quite amusing. What we actually did to mitigate this was we went along in this stretch where these animals live and we've basically invaded and hung the fiber up higher in the tree so we weren't really obstructing where they go. But yeah, it's pretty easy with this thin fiber for it to be damaged by rodent activity. So back to the technical stuff. Layer three design, BGP Edge with a pair of Juniper Mx104s in Berlin and here in now, not DC in the Ezekli Park. And then we dusted off a very venerable Force 10E600 that I think was last used at 29C3, 28C3, but did a good job there and actually was just what we needed here. So why not? We did the usual, we used a CCC address space for IPv4 and then a temporary slash 16 from the RIPE NCC. And of course V6, it's pretty much the same as last time. Just a few photos from the not DC. We actually even managed to label stuff this time. Edge, so we rented a lot of HP Pro Curve 2530 with 24 gig ports on the front. And then upload link those into the core with two times one giggy. These are single fiber optics, so they use two different wavelengths on the same fiber and that reduces the amount of fiber that we need to pull around the fields and also makes troubleshooting easier. For some locations, we wanted to provide 10 giggy uplink so we used some Juniper switches there. And we were testing some other hardware as well cumulus gigabit PoE switch. We're taking up links and some Huawei switches as well. So we actually, although the bulk of the equipment was the Pro Curves, we have been using some other stuff as well. Data center, it's often a pain doing this. It's been damned hot here as many of you know and really it's been that way for the past few weeks. So we have a DC container with a knock and Vox services and the uplink actually terminates in there. We had lots and lots of aircon problems. In fact, we started off with two aircon units and we ended up with seven, which is more than the number of switches we had in the place. But yeah, at least it started to stay cool there. I'll move over to Ion for the Wi-Fi. So Wi-Fi, we've been using a similar setup as at this last Congress, which was a dual Aruba controller running in a high availability setup. We've deployed over 101 8211N and 8211AC access points and that had an average of about 1.5 access point per datum close. It would mount one access point in datum close and then we have another, like a more outdoors suited IP65 access point which in the neighborhood to cover the edges. Because what we see is that around the datum close we have around 30 meters of good coverage and then we still need to fill in the other gaps. So we used a couple of outdoor access points. So you might have seen them hanging around at several places which are, these are the access point which look a little bit like security cameras, the big white dome access points. And we are deploying multiple access points in the track tent and workshop tents like this to have more capacity because in a room like this there's like, what is it, 500 people there? So one access point doesn't cut it. So you would need multiple access points to have enough capacity. So we had a peak of 2,300 associated clients and we did around 1.25 gigabits, that's RX and TX aggregated. We've seen around 10,000 unique devices. So that's what we've seen over the last couple of days and that's not concurrently online in the network. So yeah, we were running like at Congress 82.1X again. So people could use a random username password to log into the network. And so on the left side we have a nice top 11 there and then you can see why we made it the top 11. So yeah, the device types on the network, it's mostly smartphones. So you can see that Android and iOS are in the top three. So that's a large bit of the network are all smartphones. And then other than that, we have of course Linux devices. And then as we would expect at CCC that these windows is being very, very low used. So that's good. So regarding the type of devices that connected to the network. So we, more than 50% were actually five gigahertz capable. So that's pretty good. Last Congress we did I think around 65%. But yeah, it's good that we have more than 50% of devices actually being five gigahertz capable. And we're also seeing quite a lot of the newer generation devices, the 8211AC devices. That's already 21%. And regarding the uses of the SSIDs, yeah, about 42% of the devices were in 82.1X. That's a bit less than at last Congress, but still pretty okay. So if you wanna have some encryption on the wifi layer then yeah, use 82.1X. Yeah, more pretty graphs. So this is a graph where we are plotting the number of associations per field or per region. And you can see, I'm not sure if the mouse pointer works, but you can see over here that the green lines, this peaks over here are actually the people getting in and out of the track tents. So we can pretty much see that which, if there's a good talk going on in the tent, so if there's lots of people there, then it must be good. And then at some point, like during night, we see people going to the east side of the camp, which is where the Bear Village is. So people are going to the bars and yeah. Yeah, and you see the red line over here, that's the central plots where also the bars are. So it's pretty obvious where people are going. So the lightning storm yesterday. Yeah, so we obviously have a lot of stuff missing here that we because we had to power down the DC, all the generators actually got turned off. But it's also interesting to see that the people were like moving to the, they were getting into the big track tents, that's the blue line over here. And then people were moving to the central plots, that's the red line over here. So it's also interesting to see what's happening when you're having a situation like that. So challenges, yeah, we had to make a bit of a trade-off between coverage, capacity, and performance because it's a very open field. So it's, and there's not a lot of attenuation. So you don't have, so there's a quite large chance that access points will end up on the same channel. So you, we don't want to mount the access points too high, but then if we're mounting them lower, that could actually mean that we have less coverage. So that that, we need to make those trade-offs to get something working. And we did end up having quite a lot of high channel utilization in some areas. So that's actually the amount of time that the radio in access point is busy receiving and sending traffic. And once that channel gets more and more loaded, it will just slow down. And at some point it will could possibly break that you will not even get an association anymore. So we had some radios that were averaging around 65% channel utilization, which is very, very high and peaking at 95%. Another issue we were facing is that we, there were a lot of rogue access points around and that caused some devices to have some roaming issues because the device will receive so much BSS IDs. If you're, for example, in the central plots, you can see very, very much BSS IDs around you and your Wi-Fi device at some point will have some issues selecting the correct network because it's receiving so many beacons and so many probe responses. So in the future, we would like to use some more performance monitoring using Wi-Fi probes. So we're looking into a solution for that so we can test the performance of the Wi-Fi network just independently of the Wi-Fi infrastructure itself. So we will have a couple of nodes connected to the network which are doing periodic speed tests and latency tests so we can better signal where, at which areas the Wi-Fi would be bad. So, another problem we were facing is that the space blankets that were put around the button close actually caused a drop in 20 dB of signal intangation. So that was very, very significant. So at some point we had to remove the space blankets again to increase the signal on the field. Yeah, and here's another graph that actually shows the five most busy access points with the channel utilization in five gigahertz. So you can see that there are access points that are peaking up to 90% channel utilization even in five gigahertz band. And that's worth near DK Utrecht, Hamburg, and well, one of the access points in this track as well. Oh, we had another tweet today which was pretty funny.  Yeah, this was because most of the access points here they've been used at a conference. It was actually a hack in the box in Burs von Belag, Amsterdam.  So you want to take this one? So we didn't actually produce any, I don't think we produced any use more bandwidth signs this time around. The uplink did get used quite well peaking at 7.5 gigs out. So we're pretty happy with this next time around. I guess we'll need more, because we always need more. We also did some instrumentation of what happened inside the camp and saw like at a maximum backplane capacity on the E600 of 22 and a half gigabits. So there's some traffic, quite some traffic flowing around the site as well, which is nice. We did a new dashboard, which you can look at. And we're always eager to add more stats to that. We added some temperature sensors from the ICMP village and some other stuff. So yeah, more to come there. And I mean, it just shows, here I've got a screenshot. It's a number of wireless users and speed and traffic used by the visitors. All very shiny stuff actually. Ticketing. We used OTRS for the pre-event, which is kind of a historical thing. And then for years, we've always used roundup on site because it's just really simple and people can just get started straight away with this. We only had 51 tickets that come through, which is quite low, I think, actually. So thanks very much to the Knock Help Desk for fielding the end user queries and doing all that unplugging and stuff. You may notice we had some lights on the dud and glow. These were originally from our own 2013 event, but they're actually very useful for us to diagnose any network problems. So they had this interesting kind of thread. Oh yeah, so somebody at DK Dublin was complaining that the lights on the LED poles on the dud and glow were too bright. And yeah, they asked it to be switched off and we were like, well, at least our Belgian colleague here said that, yeah, stars are down, team has been dispatched, ETA, 10 light years, so. So what's the team actually behind this? Well, it's actually quite a lot of people. Like, there's more than 30 people in seven subteams of some of them quite young and some of them rather old kids like me. And we really started on site two weeks ago and one day today, so I actually arrived here two weeks ago to start with the uplink stuff. And then, yeah, as I said before, the info help desk were dealing with a lot of our end user queries and that sort of stuff. Actually, a lot of the stuff, a lot of the equipment and services we use for this event can't really be bought commercially. Either it costs quite a lot of money at the commercial rates or it's short-term stuff or you need to borrow equipment and people just don't lend their stuff out. So we actually really rely on a lot of people who give us stuff for free. And so, yeah, really, really thanks to our uplinks, KPN Stratto and CIS11, E-Discom who supplied the 10-giggy wave to Berlin, E-Kixson Speedbone for housing of the Berlin side of the operation and then quite a lot of hardware from Bibliocumulus, CureLink, Aruba, FlexOptics. So really, really thanks to those guys for giving us quite a lot of equipment and yes, we will send it back. So, well, goodbye. The network in the camping fields will be torn down starting about 1900 today after the closing presentation. We will have everything kind of gone by 10 a.m. on Tuesday. So please be kind to our fibres as you see them in the fields because we want to roll them up and use them at the next event. So thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, I get to do this, yeah. So I probably have time for a couple of questions. If anyone has some, come up to the mic. Is there a mic? Oh, yes, the mic's here and here. I can't see anything up here. First up on my left. You mentioned that you got the fibre to the electricity pole. But was the fibre to Berlin already included on the network or did you need to add it? Actually, there's an electricity substation at really near Zeidenich, just down there. So the end-to-end, like the actual photons, as it were, go as far as Zeidenich and go into their DWDM equipment there. So the actual, you know, physical splice through a piece of fibre is about six kilometres to camp and then it's transported there. It's too far really to light. So it's not a physical pair of fibres all the way to Berlin. It goes into an optical network, which is pretty standard, really. Do I see any more questions? No, then thanks very much. I'll pass over to the Vok. I don't know how to use such advice with an apple on it. If it had a penguin, I might be able to get it running. Yeah, that looks pretty nice. So it's really, really cool to see that tent filled with people wanting to see what we build and how we build it. Oh, it's running automatically. Interesting. Oh, yours is there. And maybe composite. Thank you. So it's nice to see that tent being filled with people like that. But as you may know, there are a lot of people on the campsite tearing down their villages or already on their way home or some may even not have been able to come here in the first place. And we want the great experience you have here, at least a little bit shared with them. So we are the Vok and we are providing recording and streaming for the lecture halls and a little bit for the music on the field. And you may have seen our small and larger cats standing all around here. So the Vok here is not alone. We don't have enough hardware to do an event great as this or like the Congress. And we always have helpers. And this year we had like the AGS and a guy from iSystems here who provided hardware and also a lot of support. And they both of them run one of the big tents. And we really like to say thank you to them because without them that would not have been possible at all. So as you might have heard, the action is in tents here on the camp. And tents are a little bit more complicated than like a full operational Congress center. So the day we arrived here and tried to build our stuff up, we had like a tent with no walls and no floor in it. And so guys from us started climbing around and hanging all the screens there and the beamers. And actually you may have noticed that the tents stayed like in the skeleton stayed for quite a bit of time and that was not really planned like that. So between the build-up team of the tents, finishing the tents and we are setting up the audio video equipment, there was like 0.125 days. So only some hours and it was really, really hard to get that all done until the opening event. But we managed to do it and it was really hard for the team. So in the end, give the team who's not here on the stage a really big applause because they really, really worked hard to get that done. So we have three main stages here. We have the both tents north and south. And yeah, their names are a bit complicated. They switched places sometimes and also got new names. So there was a little bit confusion there, but in the end, we managed to make it. And we also had the bare stage in the Berlin Village, which is a really interesting program. And those were the three main stages we were working on. And additionally, we had our container, one of the OCs container. The knockhead, one similar, you can see it on the screen. But the POC did it right and they had like a big tent and a lot of space to party. So next year, we will try to learn from them. No, in four years, we will try to learn from the POC. As you can see, we have a lot of hardware there, but the main device is standing in the DC. So what we have in our container is those really nice tally lights. They don't only show the time, but whenever something happens, like a talk starts or talk finishes or one of our encoder processes stop working, they will blink and display a message what's happening and they are used via over the air. So we can carry them to the different locations we're going and always be notified. And also, we have this really nice blinking light underneath it, which actually makes a sound when it's turning because it's that crappy. But you can hear when something goes wrong, which is also really good. So what we have in the DC are two new devices that we bought in the beginning of the year. We call them the Minions because they're really small. They're like 10 centimeters wide, but they are really, really powerful course. They have like four of the 3.9 gigahertz i7 cores and they did the whole encoding for the master HD files for the whole campsite. And at least half of the talks they did even twice because we missed something. And those are the two devices who are actually producing the files you are downloading and viewing in the browser, at least the most of them. And these are really, really nice devices and I can, yeah, I really like them because they're so small you can carry them around with you, no problems. We also have a bit of interesting gear standing beneath the ceiling of one of the buildings in this direction, the one with the high chimney. We have Rodent Schwartz transmitter equipment for FM radio and DVB-T and DVB-T2, I think. And these are really interesting devices and we have played quite a lot with them. Actually, you might be even able to listen to the talks going on here and the special radio while you were driving around Sydney and doing your buyings for your village. And the DVB-T also had a lot of special features like we had EPG running after some time and even managed to get, oh, is there a slide missing? Oh, I think there's a slide missing. We had even teletext working and like a Twitter feed on teletext and this. But we weren't able to finish that as fine as we wanted to. Like we wanted you to be able to enter your own teletext sites and send them out. We are DVB-T and we are really looking forward to get that working at the next Congress. So everyone can have their own teletext website then. So another thing like FM transmission is pretty old and we like the new stuff. So we had guys from the Open Digital Radio project bringing DAB plus transmitters there and they also managed to stream slideshow versions of the video via DAB plus. There are not that many radios out there that can receive that, but they brought us one and it seems it actually worked pretty well. So maybe it's really the future, I think, maybe ish. So yeah, there were some special projects we've been working on. Like when the thunderstorm was announced, the cert asked us if we can do a video explaining to the nerds how to secure their tent. And as you may have seen, there were some tents that were really in need of a little help there. And the thing is we used that video, we reproduced it, cut it, and then we uploaded it to our storage. Like we have a mirror of video files on the campsite and went away and when we came back and looked at our graphs, they kind of looked like this. And what you see there is like 1.2 terabytes of traffic produced by this single file. And we were like limiting out our 1GE link. Oh, it's actually, yeah, it was peaking around 1.2 gig bits per second for an hour or two hours because everyone on the campsite was viewing that one video and looking at the connection stats, we saw like 50,000 people watching that. It's like crazy. And we were not really sure it might have been a software bug of someone's notebook down in the file over and over again. But even then, the numbers are pretty awesome. So as I'm talking about the stats, we also have a nice dashboard. And it's actually the same technology as you have. But ours is not public, I think. And as you can see, in the top row, we peaked like at 2 gigabits per second with the streaming. So that's all the streaming relays added up. The one on the campsite, we have a local relay here, as well as the ones in the internet. And that's actually not that much. Like on the Congress, we were like around 17 gigabits. But hey, OK, it's about the sunshine and camping. And yeah, I know you're likely not to watch the streams. But there were great talks. So maybe you should take a look at the recordings then. We peaked like around 600 viewers at all stages. But the biggest stage was actually the bare stage, with about 400 viewers watching a podcast there. And it was more than the peak at the tent. So yeah, actually, it seems to be the bare stage was more interesting. So looking at the stats, we had like two relays on the internet. And one here on the campsite. And we did split routing and split system so that people watching on the campsite got their traffic from the relays here. And people watching from the internet got their traffic from there. This year, we used HTTP all to the way down. So all streams were delivered via HTTP. And this enabled us to enable TLS. And deliver at least the option for everybody to watch the streams, we are an encrypted connection because encrypt everything would be the right thing to do. And this also meant that we didn't need to use Flash anymore. So we totally scratched that. And because we know the hamsters around here, we decided to do everything really required to run our system on the site. So we did all transcoding and all release encoding on the site. And it turned out to be a good idea. And yeah, this was a little different to what we did at Congress. So it was a new thing for us to do everything here. Yeah, we tried to do multicast. Well, we plan to try to do it. But actually, the problem is that with multicast, you're sending out every packet once. And if the device didn't receive it properly, then, well, it's gone. So we need some kind of forward error correction on our streams inside the video stream, for example. And we have the code to do that because we're using that on DVBT2. But it seems there is no device and no program out there able to play that back. So like VLC doesn't do it, and FFmpeg doesn't do it. So if you're working on a media player and want to help implementing forward error correction in the player, so next year we can use multicast, then please talk with us. We would really like some help there. But it isn't actually necessary on the camset because we had DVBT here. But at the Congress, it might be interesting there. And I think the NOC would like to see some multicast traffic, too, wouldn't you? Yeah, multicast. So yeah, we announced like YOLO Stream. So everyone on the camset that has anything that makes any kind of noise or sound or music or the like would be able to share that with the internet. But we didn't really get to implementing it. But we will try to do that in the Congress. So be prepared. If you have anything that makes any kind of sound or music or want to share anything, be prepared to stream something to an iSCAST gateway on the Congress. We will have a gateway there for you. So everyone on the internet and on the Congress can listen to what you're producing. Yeah, and that's all from the, oh, there's a screen from the teletext, actually. So that's all we have to say. And say thank you to the cats and thank you to all the people. And before you're leaving, we have our local mirror with all recordings of all talks here. And it's connected via 10 GE to the data close. So you can start your async now and take all the recordings with you. And yeah, see you soon. Yeah. So I should talk to you about the power here at the camp. It was quite a tricky task to do it here. We've started way before the start point set here in March and talked to the big net company here in Edis. If it is possible to place some transformators outside, but the capacity of the lines here are all not working for us. So you can use it as a museum, but you cannot get any more power. So we started here on the site on the 31st and get to deliver our material and build the backstage. And yeah, we've installed a total like 30 kilometers of cables, 224 power distribution boxes. That's only the CE connector ones. So we have about 500 normal connector boxes outside at the whole campsite to deliver you all the power you needed. We've planned with many more power than it's really used. That's the plan of the whole campsite. It was also in the public wiki. And the company that does the sanitary installation here told us they alone would use about 400 kilowatt of power all time. I don't see it, but I think all the showers would be cold. But I don't know it. And total we have here seven generators, five connection boxes, which we have get the... Instead of a museum building, they have also our connection box. And yeah, I think it works to find the power network. We don't have much problems. We had one generator failure in this morning at the shower spot and the disco. And we had one burning box, there's a burning RCD in it. It was on, I think, day minus one.  So I will come to the statistic later because this computer doesn't have any internet. We had a nice graphics. We'll see it later from the POC. So thanks for the POC for doing it. And we had a whole bunch of angels that helped us here going around, seeing if the cables are not too hot and clicking the RCD back in if you have tried to get it out. And we had a lot of rainproof installation. I don't have to think about so much since the thunderstorms, since we take out all generators and plug them back in. And yeah, mainly all things are working. So some light insulation doesn't work. But yeah, that's normal. But the whole rest was working fine. So we could... So do we get an image? Yeah. So that's the portal of the POC has built for us. You see their live screen of all the power that's used from the generators. So I think this one is right out right now. But the rest is live data. And you also have... Yep, also these live statistics. So we had one big generator standing at the Noctis C that was able to switch on another generator if we have a power failure. But I think we don't have any failures at the Noctis C. Only the big one at the thunderstorm. And also the 10s, I don't hear any failures about it. So in total, everything works fine. And if it just will work... Yeah, I would like to show you the whole power consumption of the network. But because of the big power failure today and generators doesn't work, I cannot prepare it. So I don't think I will find it. You can talk to the POC, they should have it. And yeah, that was it from my side. So I hope it has worked for you and you don't have so much power failures. But yeah, if you have any questions, you can ask them. Hi, good afternoon. Good afternoon. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I have a question. Why is there a cat? Why is the cat standing there? Oh, OK. Yeah, that's an interesting question. Some time ago, when the Vox started to record lectures, we had all the things set up, all cameras running, all streams running. Everything looked fine and the hall was empty. So we said, OK, everything's fine. We can go and relax. But then the hall started to fill and people were standing on the stages and someone asked, well, why is the stage still empty on the stream? And the thing is that the system in between has failed in a way that it repeated the same frame over and over again and we didn't notice until the talk started. So we decided we would have something or somebody on the stage who's moving constantly. But we wouldn't get an angel for that dancing all the day on the stage. So we decided to get some cats that are moving all the time. And this is our test if our stream and our setup is working because if they don't move, either the battery is empty or the stream is dead. Actually, we're really liking them. So they're traveling with us to every event and we really are caring for them. We also have a big one at the cube in the office, the mother of the small ones in the tents, maybe. I'm interested in the reasoning about middle-voltage transformers versus generators. And was it no option to install transformers and connect to the global grid? And the... Well, first this? Yes, it would be possible. We have, like Zinox said, there was a big transformer station near Selenik, but it would have cost us more money than we had and it would only be profitable if we do the whole camp for about one or one and a half months, then it would be okay. And just another question, why were the showers electrically heated instead of burnt fuel? Yeah, I would really like to say why, but I don't know it. I was getting a white piece of paper and there's so 401.1 kV for the whole shower installation and I said, okay. Do you know how much fuel was consumed by the generators? How many liters of diesel did the camp need? I think it should be. We have tanks the last bit today and it's about 30,000. Okay, thanks. How much percentage of the installed capacity was actually utilized by the camp? Could you repeat it? Well, you said you have lots of generators and you had too much power that we didn't use enough power, so how little did we use? Here on the camp we have calculated with 200 watt per person. That would be about by 4,500 visitors, about 0.9 megawatt. We had the 400 kV for the installation of the sanitaries and we had the light and other things, so we planned with about 1.8 to 2.5 megawatt. And we are using right now, I think, in the highest peak, it was about 500 kW. Why is the night frequency only 44 Hz instead of 50? That's the whole camp, so it is possible that some generators are a little bit lower and some are a little bit higher, so we had to check all generators and it's calculated. I don't know where's the bug. So here we have 49.98. It's possible, it's a broken one, it's not connected right now. Thank you. I was wondering, I didn't see anyone from the walk from the water operation center. Can any of you give us any stats on water consumptions or supplies or whatever? Maybe they're still drinking. Right. They're drinking the black water, right? I think that yesterday the water was empty and we had to get a new one or it was before two days, so we've used really much water. First, thanks for everything that worked perfectly as intended. Big up, really cool. I would be interested about the costs, actually. I'm not sure if you are allowed to talk about it, but I don't want to see numbers. I just want to know, pock this one-third of the whole budget, walk once, you know, just the technical costs. But maybe it's a secret. I can talk about this from the knock point of view. As we already mentioned, actually, we get a lot of stuff for free from people or there's not really a market to buy the thing we need. So, actually, most of our expenditure is on really, like, ancillaries, you know, how many cable ties and this kind of stuff we have. And all of our work is done by volunteers just like other teams. So, it turns out that it's not that expensive for a network point of view. Well, like, you saw the minions, the small boxes we have to encode the video and we have those new since the last congress, but they are not only for the camp here. So, we will use them at a lot of the small conferences of the CCC and also assorted conferences and meetups all the way down. So, even if they count, maybe I don't know really how, from rich budget they are calculated, but even if they count to here, they are not gone at the end of the camp. So, we will use them for the next years to do what we're doing without any charge to small conferences. Yeah, at my point, I cannot say, I don't know the whole budget here. So, I think it's really a big part of the whole budget for the electrical insulation because it's so much that the diesel or high oils that we are using here, it's generators, but you need it because you don't know how many people you will get. Some villages said they need 63 amps, only for them, they don't use it right now. So, I think it's quite a big part, but yeah. Are there any more questions?  So, really, really big thank you for all the figures, all the interesting stuff and interesting information. This is for the infrastructure review. And so, please, also, a really big round of applause for Will I in Mastermind and Fangel.