like mouse sex soldiers the only running we did is when When grizzly old sergeants made you run a good year and a half Suicidal every day One of my subscribers very kindly said Chris you need to speak to this guy We've been a month getting to September. I've already lost a stone Rich how are you brother? I'm okay. Are you? Yes, mate. I'm absolutely delighted to be talking to fellow ultra runner Although you usually when I have this sort of conversation. I'm always talking to someone who's Way more competent at the sport than I am and I'm I'm sure that this is the case today. I'm a I Like to dabble in things. I like to take part rich. Do you know I mean I I'm I'm I Think the taking part is the most important element is what I'm trying to say Yeah, yeah, I think where I've learned to have in the last year is They're odd enough just a complete one It's all about getting to the end and not really so much on away you finish even though that's good book Yes, it's basically getting to the end and still being alive, isn't it? That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, that was that's the mind go So for our friends at home I'm just gonna briefly introduce rich and and and I'm gonna find out probably as much as you guys are as we go along because One of my subscribers very kindly said Chris you need to speak to this guy having seen an article which I'm looking at now in in which was in the news and First off, can I apologize to the person who? Put me in touch with rich Because I'm so overrun. I just can't keep up with everyone's names at the moment But if you send me a line brother, I'll I'll I'll give you a shout out Who that kind gentleman was or gentle woman? I think it was a chat, but rich basically lost eight stone within a year to run a hundred and and Also ran a hundred mile ultramarathon Have I got that right rich? Yeah. Yeah, I Yeah, so It all started back in 2020 In there the great lockdown so that's that's when my journey started Really on on this on this journey to to become an ulcer runner Up until then I'll probably like like mouse sex alges the only running we did is when When grizzly old sergeants made you run And so It wasn't even I would try to do before It didn't really take it was only once Obviously like I said in that in the lockdown that the things started to take some momentum So it was all the way back there. What who did you serve with mate? I was with the one Stafford so just the County regiments obviously before they got all amalgamated Yes, I did just Just over nine years we've them and I did a Came out and then I went back as a reservist that it's all in Bosnia just at the end Yes, so over and on did about nine years Did you did you go to Ireland? Northern yeah, I did free tours of Northern Ireland Back in the day and we was As the peace product good Friday agreement was signed We was in West Belfast so it's not after the our mob on we was there for the our mob on And then after that when it all started to go through We was there so we went from patrolling the streets In West Belfast ending up At the Mays prison not doing anything We've been a couple of weeks. It was gonna say good Let's all go down a pub Wouldn't like be great if it was that simple. Yeah, it would be that was 92 wasn't it good Friday agreement Or am I my miles out I was in Belfast in 89. I think it was about 90 Was it 95 96 miles out so I'm sure it was 96 When we when we did our last tour of West Belfast, I think it was 96. Oh, yeah, it's saying it was sign actually signed 10th of April 1998 Okay, that would have been there then it would have been in there to be 98. Yeah, cuz I got out not long after they before I I Went and be a reservist in Bosnia. Got you One thing I talk a lot about rich on this podcast because I'm always trying to help people make sense of trauma and And use it as an experience to go on like you have and do extraordinary things and And hopefully see it as part of the journey even though it's unpleasant at the time. Yeah And with myself a lot of people probably think I was traumatizing the Marines and I'm like, no I was traumatized as a child. It's it I joined the Marines because I was a traumatized damaged person Damaged that's probably the wrong word to use but you know, I Probably joined the military for all the wrong reasons Like like many of people I'm I'm just wondering before we talk about your active service Did did you have a you know a stable Upbringing or what was it led you to join the to join the mob? well, I Was schooled in the 80s, so I don't think anybody was skilled it lived on a On a rough cancer estate in the 80s where it was schooled very well With schooled very well, so It was a quite a turbulent sort of childhood and I Think my parents like most parents in those days they were too busy Putting food on the table to you know And we're quite disciplined And so yeah, I think I had a normal childhood on a working-class cancer state got myself into trouble Got him with the older kids, you know All the stuff that you would you that you could picture I've got into trouble with where I'd always always wanted to to join the army. That's one thing I always wanted to do And talking of Childhood, I think I said that in in the news article that I did the When I've been through it and now these things that happened in my childhood seeing a member a Laddie was in my year or our friends we've I Was there when he's his younger brother died in the quarry that we used to go and swim at so Just I remember that day is quite vividly And that sort of Not being able to help While this younger boy who's been there with his brother Drowned, you know so that so that was one, you know I forgot all about it and then and then the last couple of years I can remember it happening and Thinking yeah, and how he's affected like the whole the whole of the school really and us that were there and obviously the The lad who lost his brother But it put things like that that you that you just put to the back of your mind That you don't realize that you and back in those days There was no counseling for kids who just saw somebody die who's just drowned It's just one of those things that happened and you sent back into school then you get on with it And that's what it was in those days. It's like it's like fast-forward all those years later That you realize that yet that you've not dealt with these sorts of Things that's happened in your life yeah, and and I Think would I say that my parents were abusive? For the day now, you know they it was rough for times back then generally rich It was rough the times I should imagine that you know if if somebody if my parents did to me What they did back then no then then they're probably you know being prison, but back in those days it was you know it was totally different so No, but it just just the Just the usual working-class lad He just had designs on on joining the army from a young age or I can remember watching a bridge too far and My mom saying that you're that my great-granddad and two of his brothers Serve the and we're there at the Battle of Arnhem and stuff like that just sends a young boys minding to Albert I'm having seen that and then my One of my uncle served in the Gulf War so obviously I was just all geared up ready for going into the army Yes Yes, I know what you mean I saw a film about Astronauts going into space and I knew that was the life for me rich, you know Then when I realized I was crap at everything I joined the Marines What what was your fitness like then because one thing I'll say to a lot of people is And I've done a few you know, I've done a few stunts over the years, so I run the length of the country I knocked off a quadruple iron man with with eight weeks training Have it having come last in my first ever triathlon, right and What I'll say to people it the reason I can do such things is I understand my mind now so much better than when I was at 18 year old in training in the military and back then oh My god, I used to suffer on the speed marches.  I Used to pray it was I was running along for them just to just to be over just to see around the corner And there's the truck and it's like yes. Oh, well, there's the camp just around the corner and it's over Nice hot shower, you know warm bed And so and and so yes, I Like to point out to people. I'm not Natural at this sort of thing But even not very natural runners can do extraordinary things With their bodies Well, I was I've always been small on five foot four So I was always small so I was proud to bully him and the only thing is I used to fight back and get into a lot a lot of fights and luckily for us Where we leave the an amateur boxing club moved in and took the Top floors of the working men's club exactly across the road And my dad was sick of me going to school Because I've been in trouble I've been fighting And he's big only because I was small and quite aggressive and used to get picked on a lot But wouldn't stand for it And so my dad said what you're going in there See if that'll calm you down Base all the diggers might make me better at fighting to be fair But he did he did give me a sort of a jump start really to discipline the train is quite hard to be a boxer And I know we naturally fit as a child I started at 12 But he But yeah, I was I was quite fit, but my running wasn't there I'm quicker now. I could probably do a bft now quicker Then what I could when I was 16 17 so it's just some 40 46 And I could probably run back. Oh, no, I can't run faster now than I could when I was a teenager, which May I'm the same I'm the same and I've got incredibly fit. Sorry moving my microphone around because it's Tell me if my volume if my audio goes rubbish. I'm moving it round because it's it's putting a shadow on my beautiful face And I don't want to deny the wonderful global public the chance to gaze at this and and and dream basically Sorry, you know what before I was talking shit. What was I saying? Oh, yeah Yeah, I'm the same I've I've got incredibly fit me of just jogging around the block You know, yeah, I'm quite a busy person So I don't have time to do like a 16 mile or on a Wednesday and a 20 mile or on a Friday and even a four miler I got so quick at running around a block That I had to up it so I now do a three miler every day But I run up my city steepest hill and it's a real like but back when when we're talking about back when I was a Like in my early 20s, I'd stop halfway up this hill and I'd have to walk a bit, you know, I'd look at the lampposts And it would kill me so much I just pray pray that I'm gonna pass that lamppost and when I get to it Then I pray that I'm gonna pass that lamppost now. I run up it like a breeze and I've got so cheeky at it that Very rare occasionally a mountain biker someone out for a morning cycle or another runner tries to take the champ All bad move, right? I know we shouldn't live in our ego, but Yeah, I think we do it's a it's a I think it's I think we always live in an hour ago when even when we don't even We always drive somebody passes us on a run or whatever we just we just want to to catch them up I think it's just the man thing. I'll say don't poke the bear They poke the bear they're gonna get taken down I'm sorry and and the trouble is when you overtake me on that hill You have then got to keep that pace up for the whole hill and it it is tasty this hill So once you overtake me, you've got to keep that speak is it when I come alongside you at The time where you're thinking actually I wish I could slow down now But the point wasn't to big myself up it was just to say it's incredible at 52 I'm way fitter than I've ever been in my life and I love it and it's it's meant It's just sewing running for me is nothing to do with exercise It's just a spiritual experience. It's just a beautiful Way to start my day and I I'm just indebted to it and I I'm sharing this with everybody because Paradise is just literally it's a switch in your head and bang put your running shoes on and Definitely a big step on the way mate, don't you think? Yeah, I think I don't know what it is. I don't know what it is about middle-aged men who Who put the cells out there? I Mean like you've ritual and and people who come to these things and Damian Hall British also runner is the same started in his late 30s Into his 40s and he's super quick and super fit and never run before I don't I don't know what it is. I think I don't I think it it must be Kickstarting in our bodies And our bodies changing to make the demands that we're putting on Maybe that didn't happen as as teenagers Maybe our bodies are stronger as we get older and work them and and and and they must perform Well, obviously they do because it's there In the science I think when people measure these people and and like ourselves we can measure ourselves and think yeah I've no I could have run this quick Maybe that I didn't want to back back then that might have been the The crux of it there, maybe we didn't want to I I always I always look back and think What would have happened if I did this or I'd have done that in my military career It wasn't long. I was on the ever a privus. I always I was always in trouble I wasn't I wasn't I wouldn't say I was a good soldier I had good and bad points Well, I was more of a I was better in the field Do I suppose you can say real soldier in but as my one sergeant made you said to me when he was going to put me on an NC O's car that a good soldier is a good all-round soldier not somebody who's good in the field And I always think back and think to myself well Well, you might get a great soldier, but if he's no good when the chips are there and then What what is he good for because that's when it counts is when you are in the field and so Yeah, but I can remember going to the careers office and Like I said, I was five foot four. I was like Probably just I was just touching about seven stones. So I was really skinny. We do small and walking into the The careers office in Karnak and saying I want to join the parachute regiments and This sergeant saying that there's no way you you would You would have passed Peacock me because of you saw his and so straight away He even said to me. He said I said well, okay, then I'll join the infantry And he was like I don't think you'll pass basic training for the infantry because they've a small you are And this guy's really size this doesn't he he is. Yeah, you know I can remember I can remember going back after after finishing basic training and coming on leave once I'd reach battalion and going back into the careers office and that sergeant smiling and And saying to me, I knew you'd do it because you have that sort of determination anyway but I'd all I wanted to ever be was an Was an infantry soldier and so that's that's what I wanted to do and I can remember going back and just walking through Into the careers office and that sergeant sitting there and just smiling and saying did you do I was like yeah, and he says well, I knew you would I just saw it as I'd give you an helping hand But yeah, it was hard. I must admit the training was hard. I mean The tabbing was was hard. We've we've white for me being so small and I always When we were speed marching having to take two extra steps. So when others were walking I was technically running I was the same I Used to voluntarily go at the back of the truth Which generally is where the tall guys go because they have the short guys at the front. Yeah, yeah I can I I mean, I'm five seven and a half And I was like you every every every few few steps I'd have to take another step to catch up Or put two quick steps into keeping and in the end I was just making people go out a step So it'd be full at the back and I didn't even need to say it. I was halfway at the back anyway, then um, I'll tell you just before I forget one other thing about Getting older is you throw up throw off the preconceptions about running and by what by that I've got Dean Karnaz is coming on the show. I think next week. He's Probably one of the world's most famous ultra runners. They call him ultra marathon man I know you would have heard of him rich and When I read Dean's book, I Was gobsmacked because I've done a marathon by then the marathon nearly killed me I mean just like the speed marching. It was Ninja To run a marathon and I ran all the way I literally ran every step of the way under four hours Which was one of the hardest things I've ever done. I I was of that old-school kind of probably TV brainwashed mentality that I thought if you ran one step further than a marathon you drop down dead Like the marathon is the epitome of human endurance, right? Then I meet Dean or Dean's book The guy runs 300 miles in one go. Oh Yeah, and I thought do you know what I'll have some of that if he can do it I can do it and And off the back of that I've realized how massively we're lied to by society We're led to believe that we're these crap people that can't even really run for a bus and It's just not true rich is it? I Don't think it's true and What I've noticed at my running group you've got You've got like you've got two distinct camps You've got those who do the traditional sort of run in it and and won't do any more Than it than a marathon and then you've got these like myself probably come to the sport later and just bought Stuffy so I'm not interested on that. I'm gonna go and do the longest and hardest races that I can find And What I've noticed is most of them I've got beards and tattoos and and and I've had Christ is in the lives and and Runnings like what they've used to to bring themselves back and So I don't I don't usually notice that mate because they're always like a long way behind me, you know Not not It's any and so I'm probably not your traditional. I don't even see myself as a runner really. I'm just like Even though I train really hard It's like a wingy's it seems like a wingy because I just think okay I'll go and have a do this or I'll do this or I'll just read a book and then and then apply it to myself and and so I Won't say I'm a traditional runner in the sense. I suppose I suppose are probably a more of an endurance athlete and Just because of the fact that I don't really I wouldn't put myself into to the the traditional running shoes Doing a tank high or a five-kai just just does not flat my bout at all And what I what I usually find is when I run fast, I don't normally get injured. So I don't I Probably run fast there in the summer probably do Like we we it's called the chase where the slowest go first and this and the the quickest go at the back and it's you're trying Beat as many people as you can or try and beat the next group in front of you So I'll do that in the summer, but that's the only sort of speed work and and running faster a day because This last 15 months was real where I've realized these the faster run the more injuries will pick up So I just keep to her to an ultra shuffle to be fair Got yeah, I look forward to coming on to that.  Because Bosnia was I mean Ireland was nasty Certainly in places, but Bosnia was a Not not pretty at all was it? No, we it wasn't what I say us in action Probably I was there when it was kicking off. So but personally I was there when they When I bombed cross my glen probably for the the thousand time I Was there Did they manage to hit the camp because that? Yeah, yeah, that there was always Breville Was anyone was anyone hurt? Yeah, that There were a few people hurt when I was there when I when I did it. We just got off We were We was biased at Bali Kinla and so is we was the rule month battalion. So we did two years Obviously a month on month off Reigns say far more and Obviously cross McLean was there newbie Was there I didn't I Wasn't ever shot at or being good. I'll just I Just saw the trauma the aftermath on things which do stay with you Can you give us an idea rich you don't have to don't let yourself or anything But just people at home won't ever have heard this sort of stuff. Well, some of them won't heard sort of heard this stuff Like when we got mortared in Belfast they missed the camp they not they not to six-year-old kitty off his bike You know the more it is Well, we was I think the probably the worst that I'd seen Probably has been a lot was was the our bomb That that just ripped it through that that turn that day will never forget that day as long as I live It wasn't a pretty sight at all and and for I Think when you're a soldier, you know, you're going in arms way and and to see you see your friends hurt Which a few of them was? Doing different things even even in training, you know, I know of a few a few of my friends who died in training All road traffic accidents seem quite popular It comes with the the job and tip really But but when there's in innocent civilians like one of my friends I'm not gonna mention one of my friends he can Still remember protecting They moved all the bodies to I think to Belfast there, but I remember him saying and all he was Guarding the place and all he could remember was just the smell of burnt bodies and so it's just stuff like that like I Can remember him telling me that that he can just not get that smell To be said It just that smell just you know the burning, you know burning of the barbecue He just smells that and For me was was just seeing that devastation that day We wasn't the first on there But by the time we've rocked up it was it was just horrendous And so these these things that you Yeah, I didn't see action. I was in between the two golfs go for So you can say I didn't see no action, but So I saw enough To keep me awake at plenty of nights And for that to process and and and we didn't I don't think there was any any of those soldiers Especially from from our regiments whoever I'd counseling or whoever I'd had anything to help with their issues. It just wasn't done. They it wasn't that we didn't even talk about it You know, we just left go on and and go on with the next thing Where we were sent to Same when we was in in say far more I Think there was an all you see officer who who got shot at Noory And we was on the scene pretty quick and We never talked about that Yeah, never even when we got back after we we we'd done a month there Now we talked about it when we got back to to Balik in there in the barracks There was nobody there. They didn't send us to the par dry or a counselor come rounds. You just You just got on with me and obviously I hope that things have changed now Within the you know within the system. I hope so. I hope so. It's not like that That people are coming in their 40s and 50s and we're having problems which they are But I hope it has changed. I don't know I'm not I'm not so much of a regimental person uh, I think some people really love doing the the veteran thing and and going to And and doing the regimental associations and things like that. That's not me really I wasn't like ever that kind of soldier anyway But yeah I think that's part of the process what sent me down this round was Was that trauma from childhood? for what? I saw in the army uh It all played on my Mind really I try to forget about it. And that's basically what I did really was just put it to the back of my mind and and forget And move on with my life uh And not really kept in touch with We've fellow veterans either really I was unlike some regimental pages And a few I kept team but never met them in person and went drinking or anything like that. I just It was just like yeah, that's the end of my life.  Which are now now uh and different sort of Sort of triggers set me off. Um, so about three years ago. I lost my job uh and then I had this sort of What before that I had started getting tinnitus any and I don't know if If mental health brings it on But it just suddenly just went really bad and I was getting like Two hours sleep a night And it was horrendous And so I've got the tinnitus I was processing all this stuff that I'd saw all this stuff from my childhood uh You know like my mom and dad splitting up when I was I think it was about 10 All this stuff my mom leaving and being raised by my dad and all this so this sort of stuff that you You just get on with back in back in the day It's like all comes up and it it I'm just imagine if you talk about it over a time you can process it But if you don't you just all comes back at once and uh And it did so It was just like a perfect storm for me got this tinnitus Processing all this mental health I must have spent A good year and a half Uh Suicidal every day every day. I've not worked in three years Not worked at all. I couldn't there's no way That would have let me sell to to go back to either what I was doing Or you know, hey, can you work until ever sleep? Suicidal with all this stuff in your mind. You just can't there's just no way you can you can do it uh, so wasn't I wasn't much of a Splendor wasn't much of a I mean, I'm not the best of a splendor now And I'm no way I'm the best father and and will never deem to be that that That I am but I'm I know that my wife saw the change in me and the kids uh, and basically all all I was was just this this Fat middle-aged man on the city watching telly or trying to get sleep and and not engaging and and um I obviously food became a bit of advice I've always had a problem with food uh always Even before I left the army some of the pictures of me on my last tour of Ireland and in Bosnia. I was getting bigger. I just let myself I thought yeah, I'm leaving. I've got my papers in I was doing I've seen my year out and I was just getting Bigger bigger bigger even then Uh, and so I've always had a problem We've food always I can remember as a kid Uh, it was only doing things like boxing Enjoying the army that I think kept me thin of all threw out Yeah, comfort eating It was then I'm going to come on to that because I'm I'm fascinating because I can eat I can eat for 10 people When I when I go for a meal I always eat more than anyone else at the table And it never used to be a problem, but in recent times I've started to realize when I'm comfort eating and I think it's really important to to to know your vices And then take action against them. So I'm really interested to come on to that Was it any alcohol or substances? Uh, so part of my journey in life Uh I may I met my first wife Uh, three people who knew her back, uh, and but What I did realize is part of her family were Mormons and the way that I Uh, I ended up joining a cult as well. So it was like So it was like I've gone from and I'm I imagine it was part of trying to deal with what I saw and And so I do I become super religious as well.  So we was dealing with that as well So I lost my job got these tinnitus not dealt with issues from my past mental health suicide Processing all this stuff we'd done as a family Being in a in a in us like a super Call them calls or call them a couple they may not be classed as a cult. I don't know You don't have to make don't If I was completely honest I've probably been involved.  They buy you a gold watch or you know Take you for a few beers down the pub um, well then Well, because I was such a sandwich of a trouble maker. I was never on up for how long trying to get me back in I think there's probably Glad to see me guy They were probably glad to uh to see me go but yeah So I've come out of that as well and we've come out. It's all happened all this time uh And so all this stuff I was having to deal with and being a man Being a middle-aged man beating the army growing up in the 80s All I thought was to do was to try and tackle it on my own so it just Just made it work.  I've sorted it out. I've talked to all this stuff out Uh, and I was saying we want you to carry on our foot now and being the ego centric pigheaded that man that I am uh, just cut it all short uh, and then Six months later was was not back in the same place, but I was still depressed over white Not moving on with my life uh, and then covered hits Uh, what do I end up doing?   So I ended up just shy of 18 stone uh And that was in August of 2020 and so We go on holiday me and my wife And I have a really bad term when I'm down there and I can remember Really really being horrible To my wife and my kids And my wife give me an ultimate and says I've had enough of your crap I've helped you through all this Automatum you either change now or you go because I can't handle this now more uh And that was Uh, a kick a big kick up in the the back side And so I can remember coming home thinking to myself what I have or not done to help myself and I thought my wife is When I really looked at it It was my wife that was keeping me back And so I thought okay, then I need I need to change make some lifestyle changes Uh, I promise my wife because of my drinking that I wouldn't drink again Uh, I realized that it's not a good mix for me Uh, and like mouse soldiers Uh, I can't just have one or two points They're quite, you know a quite nice, you know one or two points and come back home. I have to get legless But even at home my wife is like you just can't have a couple of points you you you've just got to get drunk And I'm like, yeah, I've just got now sort of I'm not an in-between you person anyway, I'm either I'm either Not doing anything or I'm just putting my heart and soul into everything. I've not got none of this sort of middle round I'm not that kind of person and so That august I when we got back off the holiday. I thought right. I'm gonna I'm gonna change Uh, and so I put myself on a on a diet of likes and well what I did I did a bit of research and uh And then I looked at What would be like A change what we best to mean I've read about this like high fat low carb sort of diets and like these primal or paleo diets or what and I thought I can eat meat. I can eat cheese you know, uh And so I'll be quite happy on that.  So that was a big one For me. So I hit the paleo diets. We've been We've been uh We've been a month getting to september. I've already lost the stone And all I did was just cut down how much I ate and Changed what what I ate So I was I was Now hardly any carbs the carbs I did have were from were from salads and vegetables All right, let's I just want to cut in there because I think a lot of people are listening like myself Will have a carb addiction And To explain it for people listening who might not be aware It's that feeling when you have a meal without carbs and carbs are not carbs in the way We eat them in the western world. I say western world In in the modern world is what I mean. Is it over abundance? It's all the stuff you wouldn't eat naturally. You you don't go out as a hunter gatherer and pick Five thousand grains of rice in in an hour for your family. You it's just Yeah, it's unnatural and yet because of modern farming methods And because of globalization we get all these these massive abundance of carbs, which is hunter gatherers We wouldn't have grown, you know for for the millions of years of our evolution We wouldn't have we wouldn't have fed on But but what they do is they quickly Turn to sugar in the body or glucose and they give you a glucose high. So you become quite and then we mistake that high for being full up And the point I'm getting to is That when you have a meal like a paleo meal You can very often at the end of it. You're just It's like your dessert stomach's kicking in and you're like, oh just I need I need something more and how did you get over that rich or did was that not a problem for you? I'd say the first couple of weeks were was hard I've got the brain for us because obviously I've got no sugars going in So so most of my life I've probably been addicted to sugar. I'm still I'm there My diet now I have to put some sugars in there because I just can't get enough Energy in my body sometimes But yeah, so I had the brain for us yet It was hard, but I noticed after a couple of weeks that that What I was having was filling me up and I wasn't feeling hungry And what I realized these these When we have a lot of carbs It raises our insulin And it all gets turned to fat so it's the carbs that make people fat Not the fat So I realized this I realized that that Sugar is really addictive that carbs are really addictive And that you cut them out You can lose a lot of weight in a short period of time and and be healthy at the same time because I did it Uh and so by September I'd I'd lost the stone and I was like Freak This is amazing. My wife was like, hey She was like, yeah, I can see you you're gonna do this So rich can I just clarify? Did you cut carbs out altogether? So no no rice. No, but or did you just cut them down? No rice no bread The only carbs I had were from we're from salads and leafy green vegetables potatoes I didn't have potatoes. Good Uh, I do I do have the neck because they're chock full of energy Uh, and I'd rather eat potatoes then then then then other stuff that I can have but I did I still don't eat much of them, but I cut all that out and and cook my portions down Dramatically, but what I was realizing is that I could go the other end I cut I cut before then I could probably I couldn't go an hour without having something to eat and then I could go like I could do intermittent fasting Like and like I could eat at five o'clock And then go all through the night and feel full until I'd stop the next morning and still not feel That I need to eat it was like it was like really really like eye-opening And I think that was the biggest Change that I saw was my relationship with food starting to change Uh, within that month I'd started to walk Obviously I was too big To do anything like grandiose at that time. I could you know, I used the I used to get pretty out of breath just going up the stairs And just walking up a slight incline of a hill would have me out of breath I know I'd have to stop if it was a big hill like there was one hill on holiday It was probably about 500 meters with we caught a steep incline I'd stop off way just for a breather and my grandkids on another holiday were making fun of me because We'd gone to uh, Pembrokeshire and we'd gone out to this island and it was quite a He's got some good ills But for some reason they had put benches like every 500 meters So every time he stopped to take a picture I'd have a sit down on the bench And all the grandkids would make fun of me Granddad and it That was like, you know, I look granddad sitting down again because he's too fat to move and uh And so I was in a right state. And so I just started walking September comes and this is This is what changed My life. So I'm sitting in my shed where I am now and Got me telling air I was watching youtube I kind of know where I was doing. I think I was just watching youtube and uh, I didn't know what sort of Fitness I was going to do the gym is going to be heavily involved. I'm going to put a bit of running in there Uh, but I remember sticking on youtube. I've been watching summer diving goggins this uh stuff Uh, but I remember watching It was called unbreakable and it was quite an old film YouTube video boy this time I bet the western states 100 Ultra race I don't think I see some breakable clicked on it now. I'd heard of ultras before I'd heard a few of more uh A few of the lads from the staffers had done some of them But I'm not really taking any notice And just thought they were idiots to be fair But I think one of them he did a 40 mile race and then I think one of my other friends like did marathon disciples And I just thought don't you think you know add enough of the sand means that you've you you've gone to the gulf twice You know you're going back to then run in the sand again do 24 miles Every day for six to seven days. I was just like that's just crazy Uh, but remember watching that that film Watching killing journey I'm watching a few others Running it was like it was titled there. It was the most competitive western states race That ever be would be that would be that year and It's not exactly the documentary one of the lads has got his shirt off the whole race Even in the snow at the beginning. He's got yeah, that's the one the baby block Uh, obviously I've got a beer, but I've not got it. I'm not six foot and tanned and and Really good looking like he was but yeah, he didn't I think he's Anton dissimilar any I didn't I forgot his name there, but yeah He just ran without a shirt Master why Yeah, I've tried I've tried doing that, but I I find that I get so many women throw themselves at me It just slows you down My mind's mine's not not a good look there because I have got quite a bit of loose skin So it's nice all these screens wobbly So it's so it's not a good look but it is I'll watch that and I watched Killing journey and there was four of them at the front and they were racing But there was I mean so much fun at the same time they're running and jumping and they were catching up and I was just like Just the freedom that they had I was just like blown away by it and then something happened Killing journey fell over And he hurt himself and he was wearing this white sort of all in one thing And he was like he fell over and he was just black and I think a couple of them I think that that bearded guy Anton was in front They stopped turn around ran back and the three of them helped him up and they and then They all ran into the aid station together to make sure that killing was all right and didn't start Back until killing was back running again And that just blew me away. I was just like what sort of race that that four of them at the front In most competitive race can stop and wait for one of them to get ready and get back on track again It was my mind was just blown away by it and then I remember halfway through They brought Scott Duracon He's the same age as me He was like 46 And this geezer had won it nine times. Yeah He's won this race nine times not just that we should also point out Completely plant-based run a hundred percent vegan. Yeah. Yeah, so he's totally different to what? I'm probably more of a meat base With a bit of vegetables and a bit of salads chucked in But I was just looking at this guy. I was just looking at this guy. He was 40. He was 45 at the time I was 45 I was just looking at him Looking at me and thinking What have you done to yourself? What have I done to myself?  I'll do it in 12 months I knew nothing of running. I've never been in any races. Oh, yeah, I had been in one race a few of us When we was stationed at market right then Got cage old to go and Take it in turns and push This lady in the wheelchair So I did about five or six miles in a marathon pushing a lady in the wheelchair I think that's the closest I've ever done To any sort of like race was like Was pushed this lady in a wheelchair during the marathon who And I only did five miles so that was the hand but so I'm not doing any races or anything I knew nothing about running the only running I knew is what My boxing couches made me do when I was a teenager And what I had to do in the army To to stay fit But I never did any myself. I never did nothing for self. He's what we did You know, and you it was the look of the draw If you've got a sergeant, you know between sergeants who was a bit fat and a bit chubby You didn't do much pt But if you've got one of the really big ones, you know, then It was your worst nightmare and you'd end up, you know doing 10 miles every day fitness And so I watched that And I just said I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna become an ultra. That's where I'm gonna I'm gonna do Uh I'd already lost the stone So I'd always you put myself on that path to be able to to think yeah, I can change myself here I remember going and telling my family Uh, my kids just laughed. I thought it was hilarious and other people who are told just found it hilarious I'm like, you know Become an ultra runner. I'm a one person one block. I know he's a little bit autistic and he he just Says what he thinks.  And so I was just like But this is all fuel for my fire Uh, and let's let's just remember you should expect people to say this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah It's crazy. It's crazy. It does seem crazy and also It it's an achievement to do what you've done. It's a real it takes guts integrity courage belief and and and let's say a love for your children, right But you still want to be here for them in in in 10 years 20 years 30 40 years time, right? And to other people These are qualities that they can only aspire to I think I think what's What's being with the mouse these the legacy of it? Uh, I'll just give you this quickly. So I did 30 marathons to 30 days throughout uh, November and uh One of my grandchildren was at school and and she googled my name and put Richard Wilcox marathon runner and all the stuff that I've done came up And she was at school and signed. Look, this is my grandad And I was just thinking to myself. There's no way to you know You know two years ago. She could have never have done that and None of my family could have ever have envisioned being able to do that Brilliant. It's it's the legacy, but we can come on to that after that. That's one of the biggest things that that I've seen there is the the knock on effect not so much we've we've It's more of the the younger generation coming up uh And so but yeah, so I was telling people this what I'm gonna do and people just like the only person who When I started to get into it and there's losing more weight was my wife because she knew She's she's now me the longest and she knows once I put my mind to something There's I'm not gonna stop until I physically can't do it either, you know I'm just gonna put myself And and do it so she could see me changing and knew that yeah, he's real whereas another people were I wouldn't think that way because they didn't know me and just thought yeah, and I was putting it on on facebook and people probably just thought it was a bit of a of a joke and I suppose you probably yeah this fat bloke saying that he's going to become they were a hundred mile race or a hundred mile wherever And and and so people had not heard of altering anyway, it's it's fringe within a fringe sport anyway Let's talk about how did you embark on the training then because One thing I tell everyone when I did my first marathon I I ran quarter of a mile around the block and I I did that for a couple of weeks just to get into it Then I moved it up to a mile Then well, you know the score you you do two mile and then you then four mile becomes easy so you do And and and not every day folks at home just three times a week That's all we need to run if you do every day you're going to get exhaustion um, so yeah Right, so I started walking Like I'd already started walking anyway, uh, and then after I watched this video. I was like well I need to put something in place Uh So what I did was I walked more So what I did was I just walked and walked and walked until I could walk for an hour uh and then I thought okay, I'll put a bit of running in so Every day I'd get out and I'd walk for an hour and at the start I I'd run for a couple of minutes So that's what I was started doing. He said he was walking with a bit of running uh Up until I think it was the end of october When I clocked my first official run on Strava And I'd run for over an hour And that was like a really big achievement for it. But at this time All my walking and all my exercise was done at night because I was really body conscious And and then I'd like witnessed other people and all the you know, I live on it I live on it On a cancer state in the midlands There's a lot of kids. There's a lot of people who you know, you need to learn the expression Do you know the expression? No, no, that's the expression. There's us and there's wankers Yeah That's it.  So I know I I was fair game to them. So I'd go out as as as light as I could and and get it out of the way but But it really took off. It really did type off like I said by the end of October. I could run for an hour Boy boy Christmas time. I'd lost eight stone I'd lost seven stone There's a facebook thing that I put on that I was 11 stone. I've gone from in august eight stone 18 stone to December 11 stone Incredible that was just it was just unbelievable. It just came off. My wife got worried. She was like go to the doctors because It's time to do all this running Uh, you've lost all this weight Go to the doctors and just see that you're not like Missed yourself up losing this way pretty but I just felt confident in my body that even though it had gone It was extreme. It was okay. I felt okay uh I was eating really well probably I've let myself go a bit near to be fair uh But then I was really eating really well the best I'd ever eaten and like uh I don't do as I don't do it as much now I think because of all the The exercise and the running I do do fasting for 24 hours is is quite uh I notice when I do do intermittent fasting when I when I'm running the morning I'll probably get the pbs. It's really weird if I've not eaten since like like uh, our past three In the afternoon and then go all the way through I'm massively I I I fasted the uh last month for five days and I I ran every day except one For people at home, don't do this. You're not a professional. I I do fitness for for a living um but um The second day so about 48 You know by 48 hours most of the food is out of your digestion system, right? Not not all of it, but but The stress that's off your body because you're not digesting food is enormous and that stress means you've got a lot more energy, you know a lot more strength and And when you run you physically feel that your stomach's not bloated with food And that your body's not trying to do two jobs. It's it's trying to digest here And it's trying to run here. It's it's like you're doing double And you've got these professional coaches They were telling people to carb low before they do a marathon for all this this like intense You know putting their body in probably more pressure than running a marathon by carb low My second my second run rich Uh, I've got my personal best up like I say up the steepest hill in my city my personal best ever So since when I was 18 and that's two days after not eating food not suggesting anyone at home does it It's something I I've I've I've learned an awful lot about this fasting and exercise um so Make your firing and which ultra did you put in for? well, it was it was a journey so The first thing that I really did was uh I think about march I was I was uh I was slowly Uh Slowly getting stronger and fitter Uh But I knew nothing about running to be fair. So I knew a lot about tabbing or yomping if you're a marine or whatever you want to call it I know a lot about that. So what I decided to do was in march was To prepare to run 100 miles. I'd walk 100 miles. So I walked uh 100 miles in three days We've 35 pound in white Uh And so I did that that was I walked the two Saints why? from chest the cathedral then to lichfield Uh, and then back. It was just it was just under 100 miles And so that was the first thing I did. I did that in March So I did that And that was that was a great experience a wild camp In some of the weirdest places uh Because I'm too stingy to pay for a a hotel. Um And so yeah and didn't know where I'd be Uh, and so I did that three days and wild camps and that that was a really big boosters as well uh and then What I was initially what I was initially going to do after I did that I was going to run the two Saints why? and uh And then I realized There were too many styles enroute And I thought now I'm not at all this keep going over these styles. It's just the renders uh So I've I've sacked running the two Saints why? on the head which would have I was going to run it from From chest the cathedral down to lichfield and then back to canne Where I live and that would have been that had been 100 miles And so that's what I was going to do And then when I got on there and did and walked it realized now. I'm not doing that I'm planning on doing it sometime this year With a few of the more running friends just Just because I was going to do it and then other things took over So I I knocked that on the head uh And then I decided which was even worse. I was going to I was going to run from capitol curig on the i5 back to my house, which is which is exactly 100 miles From capitol curig right in the center of capitol curig back to my house on the i5 Is exactly 100 miles and I was going to do that and that's a pretty uh I remember By this time I was getting further or I can remember I did a 30 mile run Down down the i5. So I did an out and back on the i5 Uh, and it scared me to death If I think it was 32 miles And I thought this now I can do that because I'm gonna end up dying because Because it was really bad the traffic was horrendous and I thought now That that's something else and then I was a bit of I was a bit of Bit of lost ends to be fair I'm still training because I was still going to run 100 miles by ocher boy crook And then I thought well I'll go and have a look at some of the ultras out there And I looked at some of the ultras And I thought these are really expensive I thought there's no way I can go to my wife and say I want to pay 150 pound or whatever to do 100 mile rice Uh, because I know she would have said she would have gone and said go and do one uh You can run 100 miles you can run You can run you know you can run around the park do a route for and do that A mile loop 100 times or whatever And so I really not that on the head so it's so come Would have been Brand a bit my time I was it I was at lost ends. I'd run I was getting quite far in my training. I've gone out of the marathon distance by then I was you know I was up to doing 35 miles on my long runs and uh I've not done any so I was running about three times a week with a long run at the weekend And so I just kept doing that uh, but then At this time I was on Strava and I just this lady Who was following on there from Kanek? She got CCTR At the end of a name And what I didn't realize at this time is peak runners put their initials for their running club Or their running group at the end of the name I thought it was some letters like the people doing like they've been to university, don't they? Uh, and I just asked this lady there's message there on one of her things on one of her roots It says what CCTR And she says it's Kanek Chase trial runners Uh, if you if you if you if you put that into facebook You'll see the group and just go and ask to join And I was a bit I was a bit apprehensive at this stage because I've not run with anybody At this point and in my mind still I'm still this fat person But I'm not it's it's all in here.  So I was like, okay, then He'd been running about three or four years not done an ultra or anything, but he knew more than me about running at this point And so that's when I picked a race so I got on He told me to to To put run ultra on Uh, so I put our googled run ultra wedding And and put on he did an hundred mile race Uh in september because then that would be a year uh And there wasn't much coming up And I remember uh after I put run ultra gb ultras come up On in the in the google search and I clicked on I clicked through there through their website And I noticed it got snowed and ultra uh So I clicked on that Clicked on the promo video. It had these people running through Through snow down here You know under miles 24 phase of feet in elevation I watched the promo video and I was like That's the race I can remember uh direct message in ben back And saying this is the race And he was like Okay, then you want to do that. That's the race and he said I think you're mental Uh for your first somebody that's what you want to do That's what well. What's the actual name of the ultra? It's called gb ultras Uh snout and one ultra what snout and 100 ultra And and and so I booked myself on uh For the 18th of september So it's like The end of april Coming up into my What I didn't realize was that That For you to do 100 you need to qualify yourself And even do it A 50 more rice beforehand and which I did now anything about Uh and ben says you need to go and check If you've got to do a 50 beforehand so I can remember Going on to the uh Vice uh gb ultras vice book group And just Putting a thingy on there see i'm planning on running The snout and 100 For my first ultra do you need To do a 50 more rice before that and I just got All the messages to scott laugh their deterrent and they're like no you don't pick this for your first ultra I had so many of the the laughing faces on on that on that one comment It was just I must have had about 70 laughing faces on it because there was like But it was more fuel for my fire so I realized that uh I needed to do a 50 I went back to ben and said i've got to do a 50 said okay I'll pay for that one as well go and pick another one for the 50 So I went and picked a 50 but I didn't pick a flat one I I didn't pick a flat one I uh I went and picked the hardest one that I could find Oh, we just lost your Video there mate is there Oh, there we go. Yeah, it's all right. My battery is running low Uh, so I didn't pick a flat one or anything to ease me and I went and The rich let's just point out so the personal best The course record for this the men's course record martin wilson It's 30 hours, right? Yeah. Yeah people an idea the western states 100 which is a ninja race in in the usa Some of the guys finished that in in 18 hours Yeah, so the the the record for this is is not far off double the time.  I think I think it's two thirds the height of Everest is what you're ascending Yeah, yeah So so this is the race I wanted to do in a year going from 18 stuff Uh I've got the the furthest I've got up to my long runs is is is 35 miles Uh And then I go Just the start of May I go and pick a 50 mile to do this would be my first ever race And instead of picking me one to ease myself into it I think well, I'm doing a maintain ultra 100 mile ultra. I need to do Uh a 50 that's going to train myself up to that. So uh I decided to do one Go and do 50 miles where the the sas trained him on the break of beacons just Just to mix it up a bit. So that's what I did. I did uh Limitless trails Uh 50 mile around the black mountains 12 and a half thousand feet So that was my first ever race Was a 50 mile Ultra race out with the black mountains It took me 16 hours To do So so I'm hearing I'm hearing the end of The end of April going into May Not really run any elevation by this point But now I've signed up on two a two mountain races that Is double what anything that I've ever ever done before So you tab in the army yet you go up and down penny fan But I've never run anything over 10 miles in the army I've won, you know, you you walk all day or night whatever With your kids, you know With a lot of whites, but you I've never run and so Still no knowing much about ultra running. I'll put myself a plan together and start hitting and doing the wreckies learn to eat on the go So learn how to hydrate myself Learn how to to to feel myself But by this point as well, I've met Overal to runners at the Kanic Chase trial runners I've got a wealth of experience Of people there who really helped me uh There's a few there's a few who've done like I've done a hundred milers Uh, there's one gentleman. Can we just clarify so you're still going to go for the snow than 100? Yeah Yeah I'm I'll be honest. I'm just getting over like my anger that people were laughing at you. It's just so out This is a thing.  Well, I I can understand where they're coming from Because it's probably in the top 10 hardest Ultras in the country It's in the top. You're one of the top 10 hardest men in the country So, you know, who cares about that? But I don't know that do they all they know is the some person who's trained in going from 18 stone to to from that from being a an obese man I'm running a hundred more long training. I guess it's the the the laughing faces that that's triggered me Yeah, you know a bit of uh constructive advice is fine, isn't it but I I did I did have a lot. I did have a lot of people who who give me a lot of good really good feedback in the light Yeah, I think you're crazy doing this, but I really have you know good on you for For doing it. Can I just I just want to add any sorry I'm loving hearing your story and I'm sure the audience don't want me to keep interrupting But it's just when I ran when I ran the length of the uk So 1,000 miles basically 990 miles carried a 15 kilogram rucksack like yourself slept by the side of the road Ran ultra marathon every day Did no training at all, right? I might have run around the block or something And I couldn't have done training rich because I've been disabled with a weight in a back operation for for two and a half years, right Two years can't can't remember now and The negativity I had to get over when I heard some of The most respected ultra runners that I know Turn around and go. Oh no, you'll never do that it and I thought no, I will And this is where this is why when I do my life coaching bit, I say ignore the naysayers They're judging What they think they can't do Not what you're capable of And yeah, I mean I had some serious old runners go what you're gonna No, no, no, no, no, you don't you don't want it and I'm Yes, sorry, brother For me that's all fuel for my fire. Just keep just bring it on because that That feeds me, you know, it feeds the And and so I've not really done any elevation Really by this point. I've I'm just And then that's when it really got got serious. So I started Uh doing a lot more hills Like all the hills I could find I would just go and run them Uh started doing recce because it was a self navigation Uh, both of them was And so I started doing the recces as well Uh, and so for that it was pretty intense That month and a half before I did the 50 was just Getting my body ready for what was gonna What was gonna happen to it and and uh, I can remember I had to get all these kids so I had to buy a rice get a rice vest uh I bought some poles. I've got all this stuff all this Managed to keep that you had to have Uh, I was learning how to fuel I was reading these books. It was really really intense training. I still really Didn't really know what I was actually doing because I've not actually done a race I'm not actually, you know, I'd run as much as I could with With the people around here from the can't chase travelers Tried to glean as much knowledge from people. It would it would done ultras, but it it's still There's no there's no book. There's no nobody had ever Has knocked up a training plan from going From from doing from from couch 200 miles in a year There wasn't no training plan for me to follow So it was just thinking what would be best for me and then going and And doing it and it was a lot of trial and error So I get to the to the day of The night before the race I remember going down there and uh Like I'd already done part to the course how I've done like first half of the course. I've done the first 25 miles Someone knew the first 25 miles I remember going down there though and and Doing the kit check and everything and and doing the registration the night before and then Uh, my wife says going the house like so I went in the holiday for my first my first one I remember I remember clicking on And watching a bit of youtube and I remember watching A guy named Reese Jenkins ultra runner And he He'd set the fkt for the for the the Welsh cows path and I watched him The night before I remember Turning up.  He went. Oh, yeah done that and I was like, are you racing today? He's like, yeah, this is probably this is I'm racing today. He said I've just moved around there and and and this will be my first race in the area And someone was just gone, you know, I've just watched this blow Do 50 mores a day And set the fkt for the Welsh cows path and now he's running in the in the race, but he was a really nice blow. Give me some some good Advice and everything not to go off fast and even though I did Not to go off fast and fuel off, you know all the stuff that I I tell there then the newbies Uh, but I was like rocked up I was in these Decaflon trainers paint paint All the you know this stuff. I just looked raw As it was. I remember seeing all these cool lover alter runners Uh, but luckily to me then that night before I met a guy 90 and I spoke to him told him my story and then on the on the day On the day of the race start on there and I just got this imposter syndrome, you know Uh, what am I doing? It's just going from my mind. What am I doing here? Well, I've got all these people with all these like orchids You can tell that they've some of them have done them all before, you know I was just like this Reese Jenkins guy would sit on youtube's here running it As well. I was like what am I going to do? I was just like I'm going to pull it. I'm going to pull it luckily Ian This guy I met the night before looked at me So there I was petrified and goes are you okay? And I was like He was like about four feet away and he just shook me in and now he's like come here. Come here He says start with me. He says don't go off fast okay Start with him settle my nerves and And we go off fast now the first mile You probably do about a thousand feet in the first it was just straight uphill straight away And so I just go off fast. I lose I lose Ian and I just go Off don't know what I'm doing like a headless chicken But luckily about That's five or six miles in I get lost because he got foggy and he got lost and we end up meeting up with each other and so for the for the next 30 miles I run with him so when he Fuels I fuel and we have a laugh when he and It was a really good experience but Round about the 32 three mile mark My whole body just starts to shut down.  So I just start walking and I tell Ian just to go on him This other bloke who's running with us. I'm okay. Just go on But I knew inside that I was really up against it. So for the last 15 miles I don't do any running. I just walk the last 15 miles luckily for me I meet another another chap Rob Smith your name is and he's a doctor of psychology.  He's standing out ex-veteran. We've no education Cheering the fact we've we've a doctor in psychology was the nicest bloke I'd ever met Luckily for me He was training for utmb for people don't know it's that it's like the world It's like the world cup of ultra running race And he's doing it the year on but he's training for it But luckily for me he'd done 100k race the week before and done this 50 and so he's He's like he's Trying to not tired legs and he just starts getting tired and that's a we meet up And so I can remember doing the last The last 15 miles with with Rob Smith and just learning so much about ultra running that I didn't know And we what we were doing what he turned and the other term is the death march together. You're that tired But you're not running no more. You're just You're just walking so we're just doing the elevation as well and uh And it was just it's just so hard with such a wonderful experience at the same time I just dug in and just tabbed And and it was hard, but it was one of the hottest days of june as well it's like it was red-hot And just the course was we can imagine I put the black mountains. It was up and down up and down And I just remember I think I've got a couple of miles out and by this point in my legs stopped working and Rob thinks That I'm behind him, but I've not I've just gone slower and slower and slower And that's about a mile and a half out and I couldn't hardly walk I'd gone down to I don't know some ridiculous slow time. I can I'm just hobbling You know when you've like You've been tabbing for days on end And you've got shin splints and your feet are hurting. It was that sort of Sensation you're just hobbling. I was just hobbling in every Every all the paints in each joint. Are they all the pain joins up doesn't it? Everything was hurting. I've gone from that race. We've like your body plays tricks on yourself you're you're You hip you almost suddenly start eating but hurting but then it'll go again then you need you'll start hurting then that'll go again But by the end of it by like By 48 miles everything is hurting Of I've expanded how much Pain relief I could have so it's just like I was just in that hurt locker. It was everything was just hurting and A couple of miles before that some of the race organizers had said men said do you want to give up?  I'm not giving this up. I've got to do this race so I can do this this Insane of a racing in two months time. I've got to do this race. It was my stepping stone and so But the camaraderie on there was just unbelievable Uh Ian who I'd seen Telled his wife met his wife on the course.  Let's see she then bought me a point in a pint glass from the pub across the round and I'm sorry to well up there He knows I'm coming in because he's Rob's coming to him. So he's come walking up to see where I am And these other people start walking up And they like start cheering me And then my body starts to work again It was like just needed that sort of kick to get my body working again and so I'm still wobbling by this time. I'm not running. I'm not I'm not doing anything really quick or anything. I've just got enough momentum there to get in and they're like and then Rob He's waiting at the finish line for me And he won't finish until I finished so we finished together. So uh We finished together and it was just Just well, I'd say everybody cheering. I think there's about 10 people there Because you know evolved to there's not many who start so there's not there's not many people on the call. See, you know I think there's a bit there's about 10 people there But it was like finishing with Rob and like Rob Waiting for me to finish together was just it's just unbelievable and it was just like These people really care it's like because these things are so hard. It's we got this This spirit of camaraderie there that I mean can remember When I blew up I can remember a woman. I can see her Two mountains away And I can see her and she's catching up with me, you know every time she's getting closer and closer and I remember getting to me and uh She's like are you okay? And I'm like, I'm like I'm struggling. I says my first ultra. I tell her what and she was like She's like this is unbelievable. She's like, do you want me to stay with you until we get to another checkpoint? I was like five miles away from the checkpoint and I'm like no you carry on You carry on because you're like really unbeknown to me. She was the first female and I think she come forth in the race She was willing to give up her race to help me to get to a checkpoint and I was just like Just dumbfoundy gobsmacked because there's no other sort of racing That people would put themselves out there for you When they see that you are struggling If that was on a marathon, they'd just run past you wouldn't they? Yeah, I've got to get a PB I've got to do this like she was willing to give up her race and her position And a few other women past me so she would have you know, she wouldn't have been might not have been first woman I just um in the race. I just have my 10 pence worth if I may is Is it's a very funny sport? like I I did a hundred minor That she ended up running 107 miles and About 10 miles in rich.  Are you okay? Can I do anything?   We've all got that anybody If you actually had to do 100 miles if your life depending on it you you'd be surprised how many people would find a way, right? Definitely. Yeah, definitely. The other the other thing riches um When you get to some of those a tense especially about four o'clock in the morning And they've got the fan blower the heat fan heater thing Hopefully blowing on you if it's cold and you you're getting a couple of snacks and stuff And there's all these people laid out in deck chairs that have given up And some of them are way fitter than you And some of them some of them you've been running with for like the last 25 You ran 25 miles of the race with and then you had a good banter and they've got all the kit And they're fit and they they're called sporty and It's just that the mind gives up and they just stop and wait wait for the What we call in the military the rat wagon to come and pick them up to take them back to the finish. Yeah. Yeah Yeah It was It is all it is all mental. It's it's you've got a strong force of will doesn't matter how fit you are You you can't complete these races It's it's just Having that doggie to terminate and you're not going to give up or however hard It gets but once I've done that race Now I want I've got 50 more miles to do We've over We've had with another 12,000 feet more elevation With a 48 hour cutoff Yes, so It was a different beast all together 12,000 feet more in elevation and 50 miles So I was up against it so the training Realized that I needed to change the training So I ate the gym I needed to strengthen all my ligaments everything up so it was it was strength training that that I focused on and then more recces over in snowden First time I got there I was just I can remember doing triphan for the first time and thinking to myself OMG, what have I done? What have I let myself in for so it's really windy And I forgot that I'm scared of heights And I don't like you know like being up there and I remember trying to find heavy terries for the first time I'm thinking to myself. What have I done? but I carry on and Intense again all the training was really intense really intense That's it basically consumed me All I was after was focusing on was completing that rice and getting that belt buckle That's all I thought about it just consumed the next two months And so I did everything possible to get me to that point to be able to to get on that rice. I knew I knew I wouldn't be placing I knew I was just there to complete and survive this That's what I knew and that's where I got my body ready to do to be able to To face this onslaught there is that it would have But then straight away I was into retired Got the first 10 miles out the way Fine got to the first checkpoint. I felt fine. I just felt all needed to get the toilets uh got in the toilets and just Exploded everything. I don't know what I did or it was it nerves or whatever Just all come out of me and I was just It I was just drained And then my stomach hurt that much. I couldn't keep now food down. I couldn't keep now drink down so for the next Barely mind I'd got I was just about to hit triphan Go on to up over the glider plateau up snarling down snarling back up onto the gliders round And then down onto penny all way That would that was the first 30 miles I couldn't eat anything. I'll remember I was that slow Going up triphan That I thought I'm gonna I can't do this. I can't do I've got another I've got like another 80 miles to go or was it 85 miles to go. I was like I was just Thought in my mind. I can't do this. I can't do this I can remember getting up to the top there and And starting going up snowed and I was going that slow I've got my poles. I've not eaten. I've gone through two checkpoints where I've not eaten and uh not drunk I was that Just just so weak I couldn't it's like in the middle of summer and all these people are going up snowed and I feel this hand put on me back and this little old lady Because oh come on you're doing every so well Come on. You'll be able to get up here. No problem And I was like, oh, thank you for that as she just toddlers off with her walking sticks with this back back on and she beats me up snowed and I was That and I'll lie to you on a day out beat me up snowed That was one of me defining moments on the rise We've been beat to the top of snowed and I could see her in the distance and I was trying to catch up with her and I couldn't catch up couldn't catch up with her and uh It's how I get up to the top of snowed and I don't know still Still up against it. Just I'd never I'd never had this before in any of the training I never had where I've had problems in my stomach or fueling or hydrating myself and now in the rise of my life That I've spent all year training for to do and I've got these problems and I don't know what to do and And uh, I've tried these settlers. I've tried all these things Uh I remember getting back down to the other checkpoint till I get to the third checkpoint now So I'm and so I'm about 25 miles in Just summited snow and I've got down ready to go up onto the gliders or the gliders wherever you call them and uh Somebody just says to me what have you ever tried crisps? So what do you mean? It's like get crisps scrunch them up in the bag Get some water get the crisps Chuck some in and then drink the water straight away and I can remember doing that and I can remember retching some of it back up, but some of it stopping down And that was the first water and food that I had had From from my breakfast at four o'clock in the morning and I was well into it now about five or six hours So I've gone all that and then but anything I ate or drunk was still making my stomach hurt and so Do the gliders get to the Ogwen Valley ready to go up Penialwen. Luckily for me that They didn't go up Penialwen because I knew if I'd have gone up that I think that would have probably crushed me because it's just it's like that up with a bit of climbing as well and but they didn't stay for some reason that I think it was the Maintain rescue. It's all the brace organisers that If anybody would they'd send in book there. They wouldn't go and rescue anybody Just because of air many people rates on snow down here that day and so But it being snowed down here. They did the low level route, but the low level route is In some places it's still hard as the the normal route because it's snowed down here And I can remember getting I remember getting to about the the 30 mile point and meeting up with this guy Concurrently you got the 50 milers so start now After you because they're only doing 50 miles. They they're running quicker at my, you know, they're getting through it quicker. And I remember All these 50 mile people coming past me and remember this one chapter struggling A bit he he got the wrong sort of footwear on and he couldn't keep up like Like he kept falling over his ankle He never done a mountain all through before so the spalf of our first sort of things on the mountains uh Kevin his name was but our 40s name is billy and spent the next 15 Bet the next five hours pulling him billy even though his name was kevin I don't know if I was delirious or not, but uh Yeah, so I will get to 50 miles and By this point I'll probably add probably a packet of crisps and maybe a few m&m's And so I'm really dehydrated And and obviously I'm famished but can't keep much in and I can remember Uh Kevin saying to me saying I don't think you should go on He says I can't see you doing this and I can remember and going to the race organizer and saying you Shouldn't let him carry on and remember One of the race organizers coming over to me and saying are you okay? I'm like I'm not stopping I'm I'm I'm carrying on. I'm ready to do this next 15 12 o'clock at night. So he'd taken He'd taken me 24 hours to do 50 miles near enough I think it was Uh, yeah, it's a it's a I think I got in there about 11 o'clock at night And uh and so I carried on Changed my clothes and and carried on Uh, but I did start to be worn. I started to get stronger like at the last checkpoint I did I had to pot noodle Free bags of crisps and two chocolate bars At the last checkpoint at uh At uh Where is it bedgallot? Uh, but obviously you're going into like you said just The course record is 30 these 30 errors on this by an insane you know It means, you know, really good elite runners and and so What I didn't take into account was the hallucinations that would come and the sleep deprivation. It was just It was just unbelievable tackling this while you Snow down you so technical running hiking whatever it's it's like anywhere I don't think there's nowhere else like it in this country. Maybe helvellen and a few others may be in in the in the scottish islands, but Snowden, you know, there's parts of snow down and especially with the slate as well You know The the next half the next 50 miles of of the of the race The elevation is still the same.  You're like You're like, yes, so you can conquer anything the next minute you're crying on the floor thinking that I can't do this And it just like up and down so much and I just learned from him that You don't push it as much you you've already gone past the stage where You are competing but you are just surviving to get through the race Uh, and I remember us doing this and I can remember Get going into the second noise would have been out of noise Now we're going into our second noise and hallucinating I can remember uh I can remember starting to Get up to get onto me. I'll see bud and it The route that he takes it like goes up in stages and I can remember Looking and thinking somebody must have have Drowns out or something I said because all these drones we like to keep moving everywhere And I'm like that that really weird And uh, and I says can you see this to James? He's like yeah, I can see it And I'm like in that weird that somebody would be out on the mountains at like Two o'clock in the morning with these drones we've lights on What I didn't really realize is I'm hallucinating and it's They're stars fix but it's me because I'm moving because I'm hallucinating. I think there's people up there We've found and so I'm just like Just by this time. I'm just done our navigation obviously I'm using my handheld he's using these watch because they're so small these watches a lot really small my handheld my my Garmin e-trex is like, you know A couple of centimeters And we're hallucinating trying to see which way to go. It was just I think for a lot of the time We just went around in circles or in between these Because to go on to me. I see bud you go have these like three little mini maintenance to get there And I think we was just like like doing a figure of a in between we must have could spent so much time but I remember getting up on to the last maintain me. I'll see bud and There's all these lights staring in the valley and I remember watching them And the next minute these lights stand up and they're like two big robots And they start dancing and they're like really big like 50 meters high And I just think to myself. I need to sleep. I need to sleep All I can see from these maintenance of these robots like gaff punk robots from the 90s doing these dances And I'm just like this is just horrendous I'm just so tired so hungry But I know just I've just got to keep going But then we get up on me on the last maintain and we can't get back down And we're hallucinating And I I think we spent quite a bit of time up there and I can remember Getting a signal and James ringing the race organiser saying we know where you are Because we've been watching you and you've spent You need to get off the mountain and we were starting to get cold as well And I could feel that if we don't get off this maintenance soon, we're going to go down Because you've already been raining we've already got our Uh, you know firm walls on and stuff. So I've got nothing else left to put on.  It's not a good advertisement is it or maybe might be you know It's badass or whatever but he comes and helps us off and I can remember getting on getting down off the mountain and uh kept seeing all these little people Running around and running by James and I'm like these people are these little people are after you It's like there's nobody there. You are hallucinating and then he starts to remember running in we're about three and a four miles away from the finish uh And we're running down the road into uh in tibetico And james he's about 20 meters in front of me. He's suddenly darts across the road and looks over the intermediate and starts talking I'm like are you talking to james? He's like are these people here and what there's nobody there And he keeps doing this all the way down this road and I tell you what I've never laughed So much in my life watching this this guy from liveable Just like talking in these mad scavs that sent to people that's not there It was hilarious and I was just like I was just laughing so much. I was just like it was just really Comical but he's like trying to explain to me. We've just you had to be there to like see but And and so we're a good few we're a good three or four hours off the the The cut off so we think that we are fine uh But then I start to get really slow and he just goes off Uh and leaves me because he's the loose knight in anyway, but he's still taking uh He's still loose enough to to follow his way around and stuff. It's just you just go off In little tangents when you know when because you are so tired and we get separated from each of our Darius because I'm getting to the end And I up my whole body relaxes. I just uh I just Start to go really slow really really slow and I can remember looking at my watch thinking I'm nearly Remember looking down my watch And seeing that I've got two hours to go And I've still got like two and a half miles to do and uh My friend who was watching me on the tracker Says that I must have done the last two miles In some like 10 minute miles and this is like I were really technical of um, you know, I'm like I've been away over 50 hours and I do my last two miles. I can remember running by the river and Sunday who's obviously from from the race From the the finish comes out to meet me Off-way down and and so he leads me in and I can remember getting into Betsy Coward And it's like five o'clock in the Monday morning And I've got and I'll beat the cutoff by uh 54 minutes So why so my first ever Under mile ultra I finish a Betsy Coward Five o'clock Monday morning and there is three people there There's me James Brown Who he waited for me again another person who waited for me to finish together And one of the race organizers So This thing that has consumed my life for a year when I finish There's three people there And it's raining Betsy Coward And there's like dustmen put you know, there's people road sweepers out and they're like looking And I can remember just finishing and just They give me the buckle take the pits and I can just remember looking at this buckle And I'm just on my own after doing this race. That's just been my whole life And I just thought to myself I started this on my own And I finished it on my own And I was there and it's just like The sun was coming up. It's a bit drizzly, but it was like and I remember just sitting there just thinking I've done it. I've done it. I've done it. I've done it It's taking me two days to do bro. I've done it. I've bet the cut error. I've come last I'm last bro. I've done it. I think there was about six people behind me Five and four between between four and six people behind me Who who didn't? Get the cut off But I was determined to to to get that cut off and I remember being helped to my car because I couldn't once I'd sat down I couldn't walk after that At this the lady who was there she helped me to a car. I just get in my car I don't do anything. I just get more sleeping bag wrap it away, mate And I crash out there and then I don't move the seat back or anything I can remember just crashing out. I can remember waking up at 12 o'clock with my face on the steering wheel And and because I'm facing and these This kid's played on the park and I've just like I've come up from this race just being flat out and just Feeling really hungry.  It cost me seven pound Beat massive ice cream. I eat that ice cream and go back to sleep and wake up at five At five o'clock unbeknownst to me because my phone's on silent I remember starting back looking at my phone clicking it off silent and it's just rattling Like that I'm The eldest daughter Says don't look at your phone. He says but it's going mental You've just like broken the internet. There's so many people Following you on all these pages on these fitness sites. They're just following you. They're just like everything's Just sharing and I can remember Sending me because I don't know how to use instagram. It's only been the last month. They're all started to get serious with instagram and She's shown me where almost off on instagram Where it's been gone where it's been and it's gone everywhere. It's gone everywhere and I can remember Finishing and stopping buying a kebab and It's quite so poignant because what I used to do When I was really fat my wife would go to bed and I would come here And I would I'm just eat I'd order myself a kebab And I'd go and get it and not tell my wife and so every night I'd have my dinner and have a kebab and remember This would be my first kebab that I've had in 12 months remember just good, you know on this kebab and I can remember just this one message from my grandson toila Just saying granted. I'm so proud of you for what you've done and he'd like 13 year old boy to put that On facebook about his granddad My granddad's just 100 miles. I'm so proud of your granddad was just just thinking of it now just Makes me well up And just now that the influence that I'm having on him And then I didn't realize how much influence that I had on other people and then it just got Just crazy people asking me for advice and stuff and I'm just like I don't really my wife said don't give any advice it because All you know what you've done is just for you really she says So they can you keep people advice unless they're another mentalist like you who's who's gonna do Another catch to 200 mile alter in 12 months and I suppose she's writing some ways But the knock-on effect is that and then That's not the end of it either end up thinking I need to Well, I didn't have any plans doing anything for charity really until on facebook. I saw uh Combat stress doing their marathon in a month And I thought okay. I looked on that. I thought I'll do this and I thought to myself Brock and run a marathon. Anyway, like A month and a half ago I'd run a hundred miles uh, but I'd not run much since then because my body was just shredded. It was just It it took a pounding uh But then I think to myself You could do you could bang it a marathon and do it in the first day And I was like but then there's another 29 days and I just have this This book, why don't you do 30 marathons in 30 days? And then so I'll put it out on facebook where I'm gonna do and then I don't realize the maps There it's like some insane like 700 miles in a month You know 26 miles a day for 30 days. It's just like But I'd already put it on facebook and I'd already got donations for it. So I couldn't really Did you do that like were you able to do that in loose order? So you you you came home every night? Yes, so so yeah so the first week was horrendous because For a month and a half. I'd not really done any sort of Big running it at all. It was just little short stuff trying to get myself back Into some kind of sort of shape so can I sorry rich? I should just ask How long did How long did your recovery? take because uh Uh, I asked because I lost um, I think it was dehydration. I lost the feeling in my left toes And I think it's because when you get dehydrated it takes your body takes water from your discs in your spine And it cramped down on some nerve and I lost the feeling in my toes. They didn't come back for almost a year Uh, I think I was back running In about two weeks Uh, but I was really dehydrated. I've lost I've lost nearly a stone in two days Because I'm not having those issues fueling issues and hydration issues at the start Really took its toll But yeah, I was back running but not much, you know two or three miles, you know and then I get tired uh And so it took Took me a good month and a half to to like recover to some semblance But I'd I'd not put any long runs in I've not done any sort of mileage if you go and have a look on my straw, but like like September and October is there's just nothing there. So I'll start put it on and like we've been like one of my friends Says like he said that went quickly because I was watching that you put I'm gonna do a marathon Yeah, I'm gonna do a marathon do in one day And then within an hour I'd gone from doing that to do 30 marathons in 30 days. It's like, you know, it's accelerated really quick. I just started clicked And so the first week was just a renders. It was like as if what are you doing? It looks somebody just hit me With a sledgehammer. My body was just screaming at what you're doing, man bronze doing them on the chase. So there was all trial running There was no roads. It was just with elevation as well so The second week was probably the hardest Everything was hurting. I've got shin splints puffed up ankles I'd got I'd only got one set of trainers that would fit me all the others I couldn't fit into because my because of my My feet and my ankles have just blown up And it was just like And so and it took about About 10 to 15 miles for everything to warm up Before it'd stop hurting But a couple of those a couple of those marathons I think it was just choosing the Wednesday of that second week That every step hurt And I think it took me I was doing something like pitiful like 13 14 minute Yeah, mate. We've all been there. It was just it was just Horrible, you know what expanded where I could take In in pain relief wise off.  So I just sat to grin and bear it but by the third week Everything could settle down It was like by the end of the third week. It was it was like as if my body Had gone, okay, you're doing this now. This is what we're doing I'm just gonna get everything ready so you can you can do it and it was like all the swelling It didn't go totally but he He a lot of it went the shin spins went and nothing was hurting. It was really Really weird. I'd got slower over them over the month I'd gone from like doing like My aim was to do 10 minute miles So that's like four and a half hour marathon which I thought was you know that was uh and so I buy by the end of it And this now had come then in the midlands the end of november It within a couple of days. It just saw the last Apart from the last one I think I did about four days Where I was trudging in the snow and they took me between six and seven hours to do To the the marathons each day Uh, but I didn't realize they made out Over put I took over people on the journey as well people from running club people It got invested in what I was doing and it was like it was just It was just mentally but Mouse of the marathons I did were on my own and there was You know brian wood I think he yeah, yeah He was doing on the podcast He was doing these 25 marathons at the same time I was doing my third in marathons and he had Everybody out leaving. I didn't he might have even had the queen out with him. I don't know he had that many people There was school children. He's going to pass schools. I've done master mine Master mine were done a pot. I'd say five were done with other people there my matey and come up from from Bristol and did two with me I'd had a lot of the runners from around he'd come and done some with me But the major amount of them were done on my own on the chase And he had all these people he was on, you know Good morning, britain mouse days and there was me little me on me. I'm doing all these marathons And he's got all he'd got all these vans following him and he was having a massage. I had nothing Hey, may if you if No disrespect to brian. He's a one wonderful guy. He's a great.  So, you know But but let let's just remember that the mainstream media Yeah, shy away from ptsd because they don't want to they don't want to admit the truth that most soldiers in the british forces are quite damaged and Shall I tell you what? respect to to him Because he he did that you can he was broken at the end wasn't he? Yeah, I become a runner That's that was what I was doing. That's what I don't think he was You know, so I think but all credit to him he after he'd done easy He he shared more stuff on on instagram and social media. He didn't why he was doing it, which I can understand uh Because obviously he's doing it for he's not doing it for combat stress But he did after he did share more stuff after and we did chat together on why we were doing it as well. So I'll be to him. He's good. It was just the the the two sort of extremes where He's got all these people running in the publicity and I was just Little on me doing it sort of thing. It was just I could see it was just uh The two extremes of it but like at the end after I did it it was like What do I do now? part of me wanted to like Like Couldn't wait to finish that I could wake up in the morning and now that I'm not going to do 26.2 miles that day But then there was another half of me That still wanted to go out there and did it. So I've not really I think I've had five days off from running since now member and I've just carried on I've just carried on running again so So that's my that was my year uh, just Just when I think back It's just crazy I think it's um Yeah, it's It's one thing to sort of start getting fit and do an ultra But to come from such a dark place And then have the challenge of getting over an addiction and losing so much weight To be able to put yourself in a position to be in the game And then to get your head straight in that game to run a hundred miles um, it's It's pretty phenomenal um And the the crazy thing is and people people who haven't been Through either challenge or or ultra will probably would have trouble understanding this that The mental Is so much tougher than the physical Well one of One of the physicals are One of my inspirations, uh, is a bloke uh from our running group number named Dwayne Dwayne Roberts and he's done some he's done some he's ex-army himself And he's done some some mine ones and he'd come up to me when we come up to me and said Once you've done this So you see we're gonna knock you two ways you see we're gonna knock you Where you're gonna want to do it and that's you or you're not gonna do it again He said I hope it's gonna be the other one But I think it's it is the other way because now I've I've I've signed up for some more So crazy crisis So what do you think about getting into the western states then because I had a look into it and it seems quite convoluted You've got to have all these times in your own country, you know recognized ultra You might have that you might be able to apply but then of course I I was supposed to be in the md md mds so the marathon disablers last year And I was effectively banned with everybody else that won't get that you know has chosen not to be vaccinated um The same again this year it's a wee bit It feels all quite wrong if you ask me because there's no requirement to go to morocco to be vaccinated Right. This is something the race have done Off their own that they think in their minds. They're protecting their own but of course I've got to be careful what I say here, but um But you know Well, I've not qualified. I'm not qualified for the western states. I think you have to do a certain race in this country You have to do that So I the point I was saying mate is I don't know What the wet it's so everything's just become complicated now You used to do what what you wanted anywhere in the world when you wanted to now certain of us Don't have that freedom anymore, which is that's just a whole not another subject again um, but the western states I I'd love to have a go wouldn't you? Yeah, I would I would I'd love to have a go But I think I think I love doing Doing like alpine ultras out I've uh, I've signed up to do the ultra trails now done Which is 103 miles with with 33,000 feet in That's double that's double what you've done. Isn't it that's double the elevation it I did 24 on the It's buddy. It's like it's so I did 24 on on this snowden and an ultra trail snowden Which is under utmb it's in their world series now is an extra Yeah, it's an extra 16,000 feet and what I did On this on this one and I think you I think you get a two extra hours. So there's a 50 hour cut off So I'll be doing that in july and so I've not just like gone in for okay. I'll I'll just do some local Ultras I've gone probably for probably for the hardest alpine race uh In the country Good. Do you how do you think you would get on? With let's say a fairly flat because nothing's ever quite flat I did the Robin Hood 100 and they say that it's Pretty flat and it and it was it was pretty much like as flat as a running track most of it but The reason i'm asking is one of the holy grails in ultra running is to do the 124 hours, isn't it? Hey How do you think you'd fare on a set on a sort of flat course? I don't I don't know uh I don't know. I might I'll give it a go I definitely I think that I think that would be I don't know uh I think you're probably I think we've With the alpine stuff and the mountain stuff There's a lot of speed hiking you know the The approach to the trainees probably totally different to what you would Do for a for an ultra where there is more running Where whereas in those it is, you know, you can't run up where you can Run up certain parts of snouting But there's some mating where you can't you can't run you've got you've got a hike or you've got a climb Or scramble and so I've not done that so But it will see because before before then I'll give a plug a plug a I'm doing my own backer at yard up to remarch for from mnd association uh, right is it mountaineer rounds disease Okay association I see uh somebody from our old regiment and I'll sort my G is he's got it And so a lot of them were I think there's about 30 of them doing the uh The goggings four by four 48 challenge but Remind us what remind us what that is So you've run four hours and you've run four miles every four hours for 48 hours. Okay Now I did that last year as a preparation for for what I was doing So I didn't want to do that again. So I've decided while they're doing that I'm going to do a backyard ultra so I'm going to run four four miles on the ever every hour Now that'll take you up to 100 miles in 24 hours Yeah We'll see if I can do If I can do 100 miles in 24 hours on a four mile loop in March It's just I'm it's really funny. I'm planning the same thing I've got because I can't do the marathon the sands now I don't even know what's going to happen with my my entrance to that um I'm I've had my eye there's a rep that one of my favorite runs is round of reservoir near us And it's it's almost it was almost exactly four miles.  So you'd have to kind of Do a little off and then back on again just to make up that naught point two, which is no sweat And there's a few elevations, but they're nothing nothing ninja And I I really want to have a crack at the hundred miles in 24 hours um Yeah But I'm gonna I'm good. I'm just going to keep going My my target is for them is to do the 48 hours.  I I know Matthew Pritchard did that recently and he was really surprised Um that he only managed 50 miles Well, you know, it'll be one of them once it was well It'll probably test they've got a runner I am And and not trying to wing it on the mountains, you know, because I think uh I think it's like A few people have tried to get me to do some of the flat to Some of the flat races and I'm thinking well I'm more you are what that's more running entities It is more Let's just clarify that would be 200 miles though in 48 hours, wouldn't it be 200 miles? I'll probably you know, I'm I'm just gonna go until Uh, I can't I can't do it anymore But I think because it's I think because it's it's my thing that I'm doing. I'll probably just carry on I might not keep up the four, you know and do the 200 miles In 48 hours, but I'll see if I can keep running for 48 hours. Yeah, I've already done that I've already been on my feet for for 47 hours Uh, obviously doing that to eat but it's like it'll be different doing the The four the four mile loop I keep doing that because I'm doing it'll be trial again Uh, because I'll be doing it out of the chair. I think there's 200 meters In elevation. I think the course the is 4.2 Which I'm not bothered a bit the extra two anyway. It doesn't really Yeah, I'm sure you'll make a massive dent in it I've got to cut it there because like if it if we go too long Mate people are gonna drop off and I and I really and I don't want them looking I don't want them looking at the podcast and I haven't got three hours to watch this Because your story everybody needs to listen to this Thanks ever so much for coming on the show I really hope we get a chance to run together at some point Yeah, yeah At least you're unmistakable With the beard I'll be like there he is Yeah, shall I tell you what I did I did A 24 hour race and I did 77 miles in that But everybody thought I was winning But there was somebody who Who caned me but because I was so Identifiable they just saw me going around for all he must be really look look, you know like 15 hours later. He's still running around. He must be winning. I wasn't so I was I think I was about eight because I was so You know Everybody knew it was made so Yeah, we'll have to but some points. I'm sure Definitely Listen, I'm sure mental people end up going doing the same races anyway. I think so Yeah, some Stay on the stay on the line mate so I can thank you properly but massive thank you again For the purposes of the tape and to everybody at home. I've hope you've enjoyed this as much as I have it's been uh It's been inspirational. It's been a bit emotional as well And I hope that I well, I know that many of you will take an enormous amount from this and We'll put all Rich's links below if you're going to follow him. Give him your support If you could like and subscribe to the podcast that would be wonderful and We'll see you next time