The NBA season tips off in less than 48 hours. Lots to discuss. So let's run it back. Welcome to run it back on FanDuelTV. So the NBA season is right around. We've got angles. We've got storylines. We've got top insider information. And for all of that, let me introduce you to my new family, guys. It's our first day of school. This is exciting. We're going to get right to it every single day. We're going to be joined by stadium insider, Shamsherania Waves, nine-year NBA vet, Chandler Parsons, Double Waves, and host of the Etc. with Kevin Durant. It's Mr. Eddie Gonzalez. And I would be, well, I'd be a jerk if I didn't say A, congratulations to Chandler Parsons, who literally got married what, yesterday? And is joining us? That's hardcore. That's dedication right there, Chandler. Look at this. Love it. Is that the actual dude with sign? That's awesome. Oh, come on. It's like the most perfect setting. Well done, sir. Well done.  Your honeymoon kicks off tomorrow. He'll be joining us from beautiful locales around the world. But it's a lot. NBA season starts literally Tuesday. That's tomorrow. And we're going to get things started right away with the Warriors because that has just been the gift that keeps on giving in terms of storylines. And the latest, greatest part of all of it is Jordan Poole got paid, got the bag, as the kids say. The biggest takeaway from all of that, Chandler, is what? I think it's that they don't want to, they want to extend this era of their dominance. They are just, they kind of picked their guide. They didn't create guides. They did a gerand raise when that was floating around. And they're seeing like they're playing long game. This isn't a Poole's last dance thing where they're winning it and tearing it all down. I think they want to continue. And this kind of shows their, you know, their hedging their bed a little bit with Clay's injuries and having Jordan Poole this young aggressive score. He's very entertaining. And it's just kind of to me, putting the drama of last week with him and Draymond, you know, in the past. And the only uncertainty now is I don't know what this means for Draymond and Clay. Well, yeah, we're going to have to get to all that. And funny because we don't mention Clay as much as Draymond and what the future holds for both of them. But Eddie, I want to ask you, do you think this extension would be as, as lovely as it has turned out to be if it had not been for the punch or around the world last week? Well, Jordan earned that extension on the court, the actual game court, not the practice court, but yeah, I mean, it makes, it makes the timing a little funny, but you got him under the max for what he would have got. He's played better than just about everybody in this drive class. You have to resign him. He's the future of that team in many ways. Even Steve Kerr was talking this week about how he wants him to focus on the defensive end as well, because he wants to play him 30, 35 minutes a game when he can. So I think he's getting that bag either way. But yeah, if I'm his agent, I'm at the table saying how about an extra two million for our troubles, troubles for my, for my troubles. Shams, look, these contract extensions, these negotiations, they are big, big things. There's a lot of money, a lot of agents, a lot of lawyers involved. How far back has this been in the works? It's been a minute. It's, it's gone on a while. I mean, the fact that Jordan, Paul, Andrew Wiggins have the same representation, that made it easier for the lawyers in a lot of ways to get a deal done. But I would just look at it like this, like bigger picture, this results business. I think it's easy to say now that this could be the end of the way that I've heard it is if Draymond Green does have a big year this year, and if they do win, it's going to make for a very tough decision. And Wiggins signed a very team friendly contract that the four years, $109 million deal, he could have made in excess of $35 million on the open market is what executives were telling me. So he signed for just over $27 million a year. That is in a lot of executives eyes, a very tradeable deal. And so he took a pay cut to stay. There's no question. There is some value in Andrew Wiggins staying with the Warriors. He could have gone to probably other teams that aren't as successful, bad teams next off season. But he ended up staying with the Warriors. He likes what they built. But listen, if the Warriors struggle this year and the production isn't there from Draymond Green, I would expect Bob Myers, Draymond Green's agent, Rich Paul to start working to see if there is a trade avenue possible. But until then, I think is this going to be about how this team looks, it's going to be results business. If they win it again, I do think Joe Laker was going to try to keep Draymond Green, Steph Curry and Clay Thompson around. But we'll see. Because I can't imagine Draymond would want to leave. And I don't know unless things go completely awry because that punch was obviously a moment. I know both sides have said they're over it. Jordan Poole has finally addressed it publicly. He said he apologized. Now we're just all about winning championships. But really, the more I think about being punched in the face, the more I realize that's not something I don't think I could ever get over. Are they really over it, Chandler? I mean, can they be? I mean, listen, I think it's one thing if the video didn't come out. But I think that's something now that just just the overall embarrassment that comes with that. You've got to see this guy every single day. You're going to be heckled by every single road game moving forward. It was embarrassing. It is what it is. But I think they're, you know, they lessen the blow a little bit by giving them $140 million and considering it a huge deal. But yeah, I don't get over that so quickly. I really don't. So we've heard both sides now from retired guys, from active guys. Either this happens all the time or it does not happen at all. So from your personal experience, have you ever seen a moment like that in practice anywhere? I've seen some mixed ups, you know, some, some, you know, talking and some pushing. And one time I saw a fight where there were actual punches thrown. And this into this case, I don't know exactly what was said. I wasn't there. I don't know the buildup.  No, do drop in another dude is probably not best for team morale, but a guy that's, we look to, to lead everybody and who's been sort of quiet as far as we're concerned. But that's because this is monopolized. Everything is Steph. So Shams, what has his role been in all of this drama preseason? Steph Curry has been in the middle of everything. When you, when you look at the Jordan pool situation, his communication with Jordan pool, from what I'm told Steph Curry was really a guy that was consoling Jordan pool during that situation. Telling him, we have your back. This was not acceptable behavior by J. Mon Green. And I think Steph Curry has had J. Mon Green's back always. Whenever there's been any issue that's arisen, whether it's his situation with Steve Kerr several years ago, his issue with Kevin Durant, you know, those, those two guys are attached at the hip. J. Mon Green is a vocal leader. Steph Curry is through the face of the franchise. But I think Steph Curry really had to play over time. And he, he mended a lot of relationships. And now we'll see if this team can, can re-energize themselves or refocus and really focus on the court and not on, on kind of off the court stuff. All right. Time to put ourselves in the positions of Bob Meyer and everybody else there. Bob Meyer's of course, being in charge of everybody. Draymond or pool, Eddie, who is more important to the team? I think going forward, you have to look at the age and the gap there. How could you not pick Jordan pool in that sense? Yes. Dreymon Green is integral to everything they've done the last decade, but they're looking at the next decade. Steph is 33. You know, they have to plan for after that. And yeah, he's still one of the best players in the league, but they want to continue to keep winning. They don't want this to end as Steph ages and they want to pass that baton. So right now it's Jordan pool at that price with Dreymon looking at a new contract soon as well. You have to gauge exactly what you're going to pay him. He has an option of $27 million for next year. Another thing you have to gauge in their massive tax bill, they had to put all that together. That's why the point about Andrew Wiggins being so tradable is very interesting because there's no shortage of teams that are going to want a big wing who can defend everybody in the league and who can give you 25 points when needed in a finals game. So to me, that might be the more tradable piece than anything, but if you're picking poor Dreymon, yeah, you got to go with Jordan pool right now. So Dreymon is learning what every woman in television knows that there's always someone younger and hotter. It's just coming right behind you. And it's not a great feeling. I get it. Chandler, do you agree? Is this hands down? It's Jordan pool at this point. Yeah.  He brings a lot of things. I do think he's been blessed with the perfect situation playing with those guys the last 10 years. But yeah, moving forward with the history of Clay's injuries with Steph's injuries and Steph getting older. I think you got to go with the younger scoring guard that's going to put up those 30, 40 point games in the playoffs and kind of turn into that go to guy when those other two guys are finally done. Okay, Shams, you mentioned the possibility of a trade and that obviously opens up rumors galore. One of those was Dreymon heading south to the Lakers and he validity to that. I mean, the Lakers will have 35 million in cap space next summer. So Dreymon Green does out they've come home. I don't think we'll tell. I think there's always been, you know, Bron James, Dreymon Green, we know the relationship. What I would look at is Dreymon Green, I think he's getting a lot of slack right now, but I don't know. I don't, that Warriors team doesn't win last year without him. And I know he didn't have an amazing season, but he did play well in a couple of those playoff games. He guarded Nicola Joachim in the first round really better than anyone. So there's a lot of value. There's a lot of stuff that goes outside of just the stat sheet with Dreymon Green. And so only time we'll tell this is a results business. And if Dreymon Green is struggling this year, if the team is struggling, then that is something that we're going to be talking about moving forward. The drama, this is going to be must watch every night. Speaking of drama, the Lakers, I thought maybe after last year they would sort of head into this one with the clean head and kind of get above all the talk. But no, that's not where we are. And we've got Russell Westbrook. He came off the bench in the final preseason game and then injured his hamstring. Do we have any updates on his actual health so far? So Michelle, he is day to day, he's got a left hamstring injury. There is concern within the Lakers that he might make this season. But right now Russell Westbrook, within minutes of his first game coming off the bench, he suffered his hamstring injury. So that's really the role that Darvin Ham, the Lakers, had targeted for him. It's always been curious, will he accept that role coming off the bench?  I think that was definitely not something that Russell Westbrook came into this training camp wanting to be. And would that work, Chandler? Do you, can you see a world in which Westbrook comes off the bench and it works?  I think it's going to, he's going to have to look himself in the mirror and look where he is right now in his career. And you know, you got to do it. I think if he wants to continue to play and then extend his career, this is something that he's got to understand that maybe he's not that, you know, MVP Russ anymore. And he could be really valuable on a second string leading that, you know, that unit. But yeah, it's tough, especially with a guy of him, former MVP multi-all star.  There's a world where it works great as him spelling LeBron and playing a similar role in a driving kick offense and slashing in and getting to the rim how he wants and, you know, getting rebounds and running the court. I think it's the best role for this current team for him for sure, as they want to space the floor and they've loaded up on guards and wings. Again, yeah, we all question, is he willing to accept it? The funny part is he hasn't said that he's not. He's never really shown that he's not. We have to see it. He's in a tough spot to where he's been vilified by that team's fans and just put fans in general. But there's definitely a world where it works. And we see a little bit of old Russ, right? But we got to see it and he has to be healthy to do it. So hopefully we see it soon. You are right because there was a time when Carmelo Anthony would actually answer the question in post games. I'm Carmelo Anthony. I'm not a bench guy. I'm a starter. And then now look, he's kind of figured it out like inevitably somehow you have to evolve or the game just leaves you behind. But are they, I mean, we ended the entire season last year was are they going to trade Russ? Where would he go? Who would take him? Are we still there, Shoms? Is there still a chance that they trade Westbrook out of there? Yeah, for sure. There's a runway between now and February trade deadline where Russell Westbrook's name is going to continue to be a topic because he is on an expiring deal. The Lakers do have two first round draft picks that are available to be traded. And they were very close to moving Russell Westbrook and possibly two first round picks to the Pacers for Buddy Heel and Miles Turner before the start of training camp. They seriously debated it internally from what I was told. They ended up not pulling the trigger because they know that with those two first round picks that are well off in the future in 2027 and 2029, you want to make sure you go get star level players that you get really what you are paying for. They just did not equate Miles Turner and Buddy Heels to that level. But if this team doesn't get off to a great start, they struggle, you know, going into the midway point of the year, I think that's going to be a serious conversation. There is a runway now, whether it's the Pacers, there's going to be other teams. There always are teams that go from trying to win to rebuilding. And I think we're going to see that this year more than ever potentially. So I know that vocally Russell Westbrook hasn't said he's cool or not cool with coming off the bench, but we do have pieces of video that emerged from last week, both on the court and during the pregame intros. And this is our moment. We're not piling on, but let's just do some body language interpretation, shall we? Eddie, why don't we start with you? What exactly do we take away from what we're seeing in these videos? This video here is especially funny when you realize he started that game. So he was a part of that routine. He was announced. He was in that huddle at some point and when did his thing? Now Russ has come out to his credit and said, hey, I've always done this. I asked Kevin Durant. It's the same thing. Russ has kind of always did this thing. Everybody has a different way of getting ready for the game. Does it look crazy over here from the couch? Yeah. But apparently that's what he does. I don't know. Russ is a quirky guy. I definitely retweeted that video and got a little laugh out of that when I seen it though. That's for sure. But it's not the only moment, Chandler, because there was also something during the game. And look, I get it. Pat Bev, you either love him or you hate him. Hard to get over that. He's trying to huddle up the team. Let's do this. And again, Russ does not want any part of this, Chandler. So is this a problem? Again, this is kind of what Russ does, right? This is kind of his personality. But yeah, at some point, he's got to acknowledge that, you know, he's getting criticized for this. It doesn't look maybe it maybe he is, but it doesn't look that he's fully bought into everything they're doing and all the buzz around his name is usually negative. So I personally, I would just try and limit these viral videos like this and not let them keep happening. But like us are going to keep piling on and it's going to magnify everything. But yeah, I think it looks, I think it just, it looks back and it shows that he's not fully bought in. It's just like, again, another negative headline for the Lakers and for Russ Westbrook. Can I be a Maxis fan real quick? Why are we huddling before this inbound? Like, I know who I'm guarding. It's cool. Like, I kind of feel Russ and that's it. Chandler, are we having in-depth conversations as we huddle before every dough? No, again, that could be Pat Beverly talking about guarding. That could just be, you know, it's just sort of like a team or out thing. I don't think it's too important. No, I don't think. Can also kill us like Russ is Russ, Beverly's Beverly. Sometimes I think if you don't care for Pat Beverly's antics, they're a little bit dramatic and overboard as we saw in the playoff last year. So, yeah, I could see this be a rubbing of the wrong way with egos, but it's, again, must watch. Like if you love drama with your basketball, these are teams that you're going to want to pay attention to. And we're not just going to limit that to the Western conference because things in the East are also going to get interesting. And the Celtics are part of that. They obviously had a tumultuous offseason. They're coached being suspended for an entire year. Do we have high expectations? I know Vegas does, but do we? Chandler, you first. 1000%. I think after the year they had last year, I think it's championship expectations. And, again, you look at what they added with Malcolm Brogdon, just a floor general, a very, very solid point guard of that, like Blake Griffin. And really just another year of Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown getting better and getting closer to their prime and really becoming star players, guys like Grant Williams. And I think, you know, obviously it wasn't ideal with the drama with the coach, but I think these guys, the talent, I think it's championship expectations is here for the Celtics. And it's a 34-year-old Joe Missoula, Eddie. Do you think he'll be all right? This is an interesting situation to find himself. I think he will. And for this, for this reason, they're built a little bit like a football team, almost like a college football team, too. They have their system that they like, their president of basketball options, their former head coach, and they're running their stuff just the same as they would have with, with Emi Udoke there. So I think, yeah, they'll be fine in that sense. Plus they have a ton of talent. At the end of the day, the talent's going to win out. They had those two-star wings, and it's a wing league. So, yeah, I think they'll be fine. The problem for them is the Bucks are coming back. The Sixers are going to get a little better. The Nets probably should be better. And so it's just going to be a little tougher out there. Atlanta is a dark course. So that's what they have to contend with, but they'll be a great team. They'll be fine, as long as they stay healthy. Sean, does you hear any grumblings as far as what happened in the off-season and how it's affected anybody or if at all? I think the players were in a state of shock. When that Emi Udoka situation first came out, it was a state of, I mean, they were in a state of survival in a lot of ways because they didn't know what was going on. They had built up this team to contention Marcus Smart, Jalen Braun, Jason Tatum. They had all been together for all these years, finally got to the pinnacle. And then this happens with the coach that they all love and respect. But I do think this team, like Eddie said, talent will win out. But when I look at it from the Emi Udoka perspective, he's still technically under contract. I'm told he got half of the salary for this upcoming year. So he's not going to be suspended without pay this year. He's going to get 1.8 million roughly. Him staying around, lingering around, I think leaves the door open. If this team does struggle, if they get off to a tough start or if they lose in the first or second round, if they don't have the finish that they want in the championship or bus type of mentality, could they bring Emi Udoka back next summer? I think those are all questions that are to be determined. That's why you saw Whitgrove Spec, the owner, come out and say that we're not going to make decisions probably until next summer. They want to see how this team looks under Joe Missoula. But right now, Joe Missoula is a Brad Stevens favorite. He's got all the tools from a talent perspective than most first year head coaches have, Michelle. Look, it's a very interesting suspension. I don't believe I remember a case like this specifically where this was done and then this was the punishment. Yeah, it's, yeah, it is. But is there a chance at all that he would be taken out of suspension early, or is that for sure a whole season done? No, it's going to be a full year suspension. I think the curiosity comes once, if they get eliminated in the first or second round, like this team has built up at least a conference final expectations, NBA finals, birth expectations. But that's why you are keeping the flexibility if you're the Celtics. And Yime Yudoka is a great coach. We saw that last year. So only time will tell. This is a great argument for people who say coaches are important versus those who say they aren't. We're about to find out exactly what all that means. But oh man, I love that argument. We've got a lot more show coming up, including some odds on favorites. Who's going to win everything plus long shots at snacks, all of it. Unrun it back. And by the way, on every conference call, Shams is on it. I'm going to take Shams. I'm going to Shams get it. See here. Oh, that is just awesome. Yeah, time for Shams scoop. And breaking news, Houston Rockets Guard, Kevin Porter Jr. agreed to a four-year 82 and a half million-dollar contract. Only the first season is fully guaranteed. So that just happened, Shams, while we're sitting here trying to, trying to do our very first show of all time. So what can you tell us about it? So this is Michelle, really like an NFL contract. Only the first year of this four-year 82.5 million-dollar deal is fully guaranteed. So the Rockets, if they so choose, can wave him at any point after the first year and not have to pay him. So this is a very unique contract. Josh Hart with the Pelican signed something similar last year, somewhere in the three-year 30 million-dollar range. But this is a big money deal for a starting point guard in the NBA. It's really unprecedented for this type of structure to be something that a guy like that would agree to. But Kevin Porter Jr. has been much more aligned throughout his career as well. Man, I would love to know the conversations between Porter and his agent and ultimately come into like the conclusion that we'll go ahead and sign it. Because that is a weird one, but it's not the only news. And anybody who's worth a darn in basketball is obviously looking to the Milwaukee Bucks to do great things this season. However, still know Chris Middleton. Do we have a timetable for his return? Sources tell me that Chris Middleton is expected to miss the first few weeks of the NBA's regular season coming up this week and for the next several weeks. And there is Michelle, though, confidence that Chris Middleton will be able to make a return to the floor before the month of November is out, possibly by mid to late month. He's been out since last year's playoff. He suffered a sprain MCL during their first round series against the Bulls and he had off season left wrist surgery. So the hope is that Chris Middleton will be back in the lineup at some point in November. That's a big one. Lamello Ball also with the injury bug, a sprained ankle. Is he going to be available for their home opener or for their opener? As of right now, it is not expected that Lamello Ball will be available for the opener. The Hornets are bracing from the mist, at least the next one to two weeks to start the NBA season. And hopefully he comes back, but they're not going to rush him back. This is a grade two ankle sprain that they're going to be very cautious with and monitor over the next couple of weeks, the next week. But this Hornets team is definitely a team to keep an eye on because depending on the way the season goes, they're already playing without Lamello Ball. They're playing without Miles Bridges for now. Could this team be an organization that starts to move toward a rebuild? There's the Victor Wimbenjama sweepstakes that we all know about. Could they move toward that if this team gets off to a rough start? I think we should just implement a drinking game now on our first day. Every time we say Wimbenjama, every time I say it incorrectly, just take a shot because it's going to be one of those kinds of seasons. And we're going to put a pin in that because we're going to bring the guys back in and talk about it. But on the piston side of things, you're saying that they're going to waive Kemba Walker. Kemba Walker is expected to be waived today. And he had agreed to a buyout, Michelle, back in June, $2.9 million, giving back to the pistons. But he didn't have a landing spot with a buyout. So they kept him on the roster. The buyout did not happen. And as of now, Walker, if he does enter fee agency via a wave, he's still going to be searching for a fee agency home. There's not a home yet for Kemba Walker. Chandler, I know, was in a similar situation, like most better players end up through doing the later stages of their NBA career. So I'm curious from his perspective, what it's like being a guy like Kemba Walker in his early to mid 30s that's dealing with this. Well, yeah, let's bring them back in and we'll start right there because that's a perfect spot for it, Chandler. What can you say about what Kemba's going through and sort of mentally how this part of your career plays out? It takes its toll. It's something that's very tough just to kind of grasp. You're still used to being a critical player on the team and competing and being the guy and whether injuries happen or whatever the situation is, it's tough and it can put you in a really, really dark place. So Kemba, I think, still has some left in the tank. And you've got to imagine he's going to sign on with the contender and it's a tough pill to swallow. You've got to be ready for it. It's a maturity thing, but it's not easy. And hopefully he can understand the business side of it and kind of move forward and still be a contributor for another team. I think it's easy to forget Kemba was an All-Star the 2020 season. That was how recently he was contributing in that level. Even the next season, he averaged almost 20 points a game. For fans like me, it's easy to sit there and go, hey, I'd love to be at the end of a bench getting fits off and sitting courtside. But he's a competitor. He wants to get out there and play. He knows he can help a team. It's just if you can't get healthy enough to practice or to play, what can you do? It'd be interesting to see where Kemba lands. He can be scoring punts off the bench for a lot of teams. I think it's similar to Isaiah Thomas where on the right night, Isaiah Thomas could help a team and in the right way. But he has to get that chance and he has to then optimize it when he gets it. I'm sorry. Did Eddie just refer to the realization that you're on the back nine as sitting in courtside seats? It's so optimistic. I'm like, it's so happy. Well done, sir. On the buck side, we'll go back up to Chris Middleton and the importance that he has to that team.  Not without him. And we've seen that last year. They went seven games, seven tough games with the Celtics, but they eventually flamed out. They count on him so much for their late game offense. You absolutely need that. And Yanis is amazing, obviously. But the shot creation that Chris has and the mismatch he can become at that size, it just helps push them forward. They're going to need that in the playoffs for sure. That's why, hey, get them right now. We don't really need them in November. We need them in May. And that's looks like what they're doing. You agree, Chandler? This team could have been a finals team last year without Chris Middleton back in the lineup, right, Chandler? I think this team probably should have made the finals with him in the lineup. No doubt. And they think that they have championship expectations this year. And I think it's for them, it's getting home court advantage. I think you got to factor in at the time with Middleton out. You want to get them as soon as you can. But for them, I think Yanis is good enough in that nucleus of the chemistry they've had the last couple of years. They can get them through a regular season. If they get healthy, a top four plan in the playoffs, I think that should be the goal. And then I think anything can happen. But yeah, they definitely are going to need him healthy and ready to go to have a chance. So on the Lamello ball story, if I'm reading between the lines here, and I think I am, there's no real rush, right? Like, we're just going to let's just see what the season is. And I hate to start using the T word, but are they going to just start taking right off the bat? And if so, is that necessarily the wrong thing to do? And if you're on that team, Chandler, how do you digest any of this? If you're on that team with or without Lamello ball, you know, you're pretty much a bottom team in the East. The East has gotten better. I think they have a chance to kind of make that plan spot. But with or without them, I don't really see them having a chance. So I think they go slow with Lamello. I think why rush them back? Let's let them get healthy. And let's see how the season starts. There's a lot of teams that like, like we touched on earlier that think they have a chance. And then when they get off to a bad start, like the Chicago Bulls off to a bad start, that could be a team that I think could start tanking. And with the boot expiring and DeRozzo and only one more year, teams like that, that think they have a chance early on that doesn't go as planned. I think that's when you kind of hit the panic button go, but with Lamello and that team that roster, I don't think there's a rush to bring them back as with or without them. I don't think they're, you know, a contender. Michelle, this is kind of an interesting one guys, because like the Hornets aren't known to like want to tank because they have Michael Jordan there, Mitch Huffcheck. These are guys that I think have a history of trying to at least get in the eight seed or a plan. They've been to play in the last couple of years. I've gotten to smoke both years, but I think overall, this team's goal has always been to at least make the playoffs because in Charlotte, that's a good accomplishment. And so I don't think that they're going to like their mindset is going to be let's tank, but I think it's just going to be something where if Lamello ball comes along slowly isn't back on the court, this team struggles, it might just work out for them, but only again, only time will tell. Like we've been saying. My running joke is there should be about 20 teams tanking this year in shamelessly as well. I think they actually have an excuse to the fans will accept it. But the Hornets are kind of in that bunch, but some's is right. They've paid big money for a couple of their free agents. They have a mentality where they want to win games.  They have a young star like Lamello, they're going to want to win games. But look, if this falls in your lap and you have a chance, it's not even just about Vic is either like, you know, Scoot is somebody who teams are going to want. There's, it's, it's a deep draft class this year. So it's their chance to kind of, you know, reload the coffers if they get the opportunity. But like tell me the same, like it might not even be up to them. They might just be a bad team in general. And it's like, Hey, embrace it, I guess. That's better to digest for Michael Jordan anyways, because I don't want to be the one that tells Michael Jordan like, wow, we're just lousy and we're going to keep it going. Shoms, I know you got stuff to do. I know you're a busy, busy man. Thank you so much. We'll see you tomorrow, but we are not done because, uh, yeah, season hasn't started, but we're going to tell you who's going to win the NBA championship market. And there they are. You're looking at them, the current championship odds for who's going to come out on top and win this whole big bad boy. And we're going to, we're going to do some Eastern conference today, the NBA championship. We'll probably do some Western tomorrow because, you know, we got a lot of time and it's all happening very, very quickly, but who's got the best chance? Who has no chance? And are there any under the radar teams that we should probably be paying a little bit of attention to? So right now as you're looking at it, the Bucks and the Celtics sitting up top, the odds on favorites to, uh, to come out of this thing, victorious. I mean, I have opinions on that, but that's just weird to me. Chandler, of those two teams, and I'm telling you, it's one of them. Who's got the better shot at winning it all? For me, it's the Bucks. Again, I think Middleton's health has a lot to do with it, but, uh, you know, many think Giannis is the best player in the world. I think with, with that core and what they've added, I think, um, you know, I think they have the best chance to, they've been there, you know, they went to game seven last year. Um, they feel like they should have been in it last year. Uh, I think to me, their best player Eddie, do you, do you agree? I mean, is it Bucks for you? Clearly? Yeah, I think a lot of people rightfully feel like this is the best team in the league. They felt like it last year. Chandler made a great point earlier. You know, they, they kind of bowed out at home court the last day of the season and ended up biting them. They lost a game seven on the road in Boston and obviously they had the injury concerns as well, but they, they have the best player in the league been according to many people and they have a ton of synergy. They have a ton of continuity there. Um, yeah, I mean, I think it's them. I think they're favored for the right reasons and it's just up to them now to stay healthy and make it happen. And like I said, we'll do some Western Conference tomorrow. We're not just ignoring the, the reigning champs. That would be weird and awkward, but uh, Eddie, the, we obviously we're going to you for the Nets. Uh, you're going to be our Brooklyn expert at all things. So we got KD Kyrie and Ben Simmons. We are finally going to get to see all of this come to fruition. They're at plus 900. Is there a shot they can bring home the hardware? Absolutely have a shot.  Their first two preseason games at home and look a little shaking. I was like, ah, and again, these are preseason games. You can only bank so much on them and they play the books in Milwaukee and you see the remnants of what this defense can be. You see more motion in their office than they had last year and the easier shots these guys are getting. And you kind of understand why they're contenders. Yeah. Are they going to struggle to guard the biggest player in the game? Joel and B, of course, but when they can put out a front court that is Joel, Ben, excuse me, Nick Claxton, Ben and Kevin Durant, they have a ton of length and a ton of size and they can rebound. They can push them. They can push the ball. There's a ton of like over there. Is there a ton of question marks? Of course, of course, how could there not be on a team with Ben Simmons with Kyrie with you do a coach who for a lot of people is unproven in Steve Nash, but they got a lot of talent over there and you can see the remnants of what they could be. Chandler, do you agree? I mean, they're obviously neon giant question marks, which I think a lot of people are excited to see what it is. Do you expect the same thing or are you a little more cynical? No, no doubt. I'm with Eddie here. I think the star power they have is kind of crazy. Like if they figure it out and they're stride at their right time, yeah. I mean, we have Kevin Durant, Kyrie, or Ben on your team. I think you have a chance to win a championship regardless. And you add guys, I like what they did this off season, adding guys like Royce O'Neill and they said two of the best shooters in the league with Joe Harris and Seth Curry, TJ Warren. Like they have a deep roster and with that star power with Ben Simmons, who probably has the most to prove in all of the NBA. I like that. And that's a lot. No, no Harris for their opener, which is a bummer, but hopefully that sorts itself out quicker than slower. What's that? A lot of people are wondering, you know, about Ben's offense and yeah, there's reason to wonder about that, about just how aggressive he'll plan on being. But it's the defense that I think stands out and changes them as a team. They couldn't buy a stop last year against the Celtics. It's why they got swept. And it's a completely different roster in that sense now. And Royce is a great mention as well, because he just opens up further possibilities for them on that end. Those guys are going to get shots. That's just the nature of having Kyrie and Kevin Durant. But it's who they can stop really that changes things for me this year. Staying in the Eastern Conference. Joel and Bede, by the way, had the best weekend. He's at the Phillies game on Saturday. He's down on the field yesterday for the Eagles, just living his best life. His team's at plus 1600. What exactly needs to happen besides winning a bunch of games for this team to be able to really compete for a championship, Chandler? Yeah, I think it all just starts with Joel. I think he's, you know, an MVP candidate going into the season and James Harden. I think last year, you know, with the hamstring and, you know, being out of shape, I think James Harden like Ben Simmons has a lot to prove this year. And with the growth of Tyrese Maxie and what that can do offensively, I think that kind of relieves some pressure off James to be able to be that facilitator and get the big guy going and let Tyrese kind of do this thing.  I still think to me, I think James and Joel are the best duo in the NBA when healthy. So yeah, I think they, I think they also have a great shot. Listen, the East is loaded this year. The East is going to be tough. So I think there's honestly four or five teams that could come out of the East. I look at Joel, he should be the most unstoppable player in the league and the most nights he is. And that alone is enough to carry them. We got to worry a little bit about the defensive side on a team that's going to play James Harden as much as they have to, that's going to play Tobias Harris, even Tyrese Maxie, who is athletic and can dial in when he wants to, but we haven't seen him do it for an entire series. PJ is a great addition on that end. And if they get some synergy there, they can, they can be really, really dangerous. And they're going to win a ton of regular season games. They might end up being the one seed. They're healthy now. They're getting healthier as they go on. But yeah, they're good. It's going to be tough for them keeping up with some of these offenses in the playoffs. But that's on them to kind of bite down and really commit to that end. And it starts, I think with James, but it also lands a lot on Tobias, who's going to have to guard a lot of these wings as well. They're dangerous. They're dangerous. They're as dangerous as any team in the league. I love that PJ is there now. I think that's a huge addition. So this, if you've ever dated anyone that's really, really moody, you can relate to what I'm about to ask, because you wake up each day and you don't know which version of that human you're going to get. And that's how I feel as an NBA fan with James Harden. So I ask you, which version of Harden are we expecting? I'm nervous. Chandler, you first. Yeah. And listen, I played with James and Houston for two years. And he's, you know, I've got dirt later in his career, but he's the best player I've ever played with. It's the off the court stuff. It's the mood swings. It's the, you know, willing to not practice, to not be fully bought into the team. I think he's a generational talent. I think he's one of the best scores this league has ever seen. It's your right though. He's got to be fully committed. He's got to be fully bought in. He's got to have no ill will with Joelle of who's getting the shots or Tyrese's, you know, Ryze. Everyone, they just have to be thinking at this point of his career, you know, championship robust and how can I put my team in the best situation to get there? And a lot goes into it. It's not just points and rebounds and assists. There's so much other things that go into that that we don't see in the locker room on the road that he's going to have to do and he's going to have to lead to get them there. Yeah. I've seen him here in Brooklyn a few weeks back in the preseason game. He looks like he's in great shape. My thing with James is who benefits more out of all the All-Stars, all the, you know, top players in the league from a title than him. It completely changes who he is in the eyes of a lot of fans and a lot of experts and so on. He's motivated. So I, I expect to see All-Star James, you know, maybe not MVP James. He's getting up there in age. He's, you know, had his share of injuries to his legs. But when I see him shoot mid-range jumpers in the preseason, I said, all right, we're going back. We're going back to early Houston and that's big for them. But I think Tyrese Maxey helps him a ton as well. Like he should be taking a leap himself. He can handle a lot of those ball handling duties. They can spell James a little bit. But yeah, I mean, he looks like he's in great shape. I've heard all summer about how great he looked in the gym and I'm ready to see it on court. All right. That's a good thing that you've been hearing about. I think this is the greatest moment right before the season starts is because everyone's starting on a fresh slate and it's fantastic. But as far as the Eastern Conference goes, are there any sleepers? We know who people think are going to win, but what about guys that we don't necessarily talk about that have a shot? Yeah. I mean, I think the two obvious sleepers are the Hawks and the Cavs. I think after that, kind of there's a drop off. And if I had to choose one of those two, I'm going with the Hawks. I think those guys have been together for a couple of years now. Tracy Starr, then you had a guy like Dejante Murray, John Collins. And one of my favorite low key players is Deandre Hunter with the defensive mindset, the shot making ability that he has. I think Atlanta, I think they stay healthy and they all mesh together and they add Dejante to that core that they already have. We're talking long shots. I would pick Atlanta Hawks. Okay. I think that's a good pick. Eddie? I think Chandler had the two teams, correct. You know, the Hawks were in the conference finals just a season ago, and they were really giving it a good run until Trey got hurt. So, yeah, I mean, I think there's absolutely a world where Dejante adds exactly what they need on the defensive end and it can help with some of the playmaking duties as well. He's a great young player. It's something I know. Michelle knows because she's been in San Antonio, but a lot of people are missing those guys. I'll realize how good he is on both ends of the court. To talk about the Cavs a bit, adding Donovan Mitchell to what they had last year, to what they have with their gigantic front court, to all that ground they're able to cover, they didn't have Collins section. So, essentially you're adding Donovan to that team that we saw get into the playoffs last year. There's a lot of hope out there.  I don't buy the Chris Boss comparison.  But what he does on the defensive end, and he's, you know, that can be the anchor of a championship defense for sure. God, every time you guys mentioned another team in the East, you're right, Chandler. It is stacked. Like this is going to be fun. We still have some more MVP, rookie of the year, and maybe some players that are about to make huge leaps when we come back. Here we sit one day before the season kicks off and these are your MVP award odds. And Luca Duncic just sitting up top, all comfy, Joellen Bede, Yanis, Nikola Durant. I love the John Morance up here, by the way. That's probably one of my favorite ones on here. Jason Tatum, Steph Curry, rounding out the top eight. Of course, everybody else is on that same list. But Luca, not just on this list, but people I've talked to that he seems to be really the favorite for this award, Chandler. Can you see that happening? I love Luca. I really do. I think what I mean, but unfortunately, with what the Mavs did this off season after going to the conference finals, I think they took a step back. And so when we're talking about MVP, I think you gotta look at, you know, the best player of one of the best teams. And I just don't think Dallas will be one of the better teams in the Russian Chamber to believe this year. I don't see it. I think he's going to have a great year. I think he's going to put up huge numbers. He's going to be an all-star starter. But MVP for me, I think you've got to be, you know, at least a top four or five C and know it's happening before that or they weren't, but not very often. And so to me, I don't really see it, although I love him. I think he's a top three player. So well, you know what? Don't give me your pick yet because I want to see if Eddie agrees at all with Luca being top dog on this particular word. I get it in the sense of he's going to have great stats. He might average 30 and 11, you know, an eight or something. He might do that. But I agree with Chandler. I don't see that team winning enough games this year. You know, they took a little slight step back. They lost Jalen and, you know, we'll see. They might surprise us and Luca is great enough to carry them to enough wins. But yeah, I have, you know, the same concerns as Chandler. I mean, look, we've seen it before and it becomes a big argument as the season winds down about guys who are in the running, but have teams that maybe aren't as great as other teams. And it has happened. But if it's not Luca, then Chandler, who do you think wins this? I think it's coming down to Giannis and Joao. And I personally think he'll be honest. I think he's the safest team. I think he's going to carry the load even more than he already does. Chris out.  To me, safest bet. I got to be honest. Same. I had Joao last year, so I could definitely see him winning it this year. Sorry, Yolkets fans. But I mean, he wants it. We know he wants it. He absolutely wants it. But the guy I think who could actually in a way sock us and get it is Steph Curry. He's probably going to be on the best team in the league. He's going to be the best player on that team. He's going to score a lot of points. He's going to have great numbers. Now, is he in that grandfathered list with LeBron and Giannis and probably Yolkets now to where we're just not going to vote for him? He might not, but if there's ever a chance for him to win it, this is like a narrative award in a lot of ways. And yeah, reigning champ kind of just asserting his dominance all year could definitely see a third MVP for Steph. I mean, voter fatigue is real people. Do not doubt that. Do you have a sleeper pick? If not, I mean, I guess you could argue he's a bit of a sleeper, but do you have one? It's a little more of a long shot because I know mine and mine is winning. So whatever. Yo, I wanted to dig deep here. And I like the job mentioned as well. I think Trey is lurking there for many of the same reasons as we said, it's the Hawks being contenders. But I'm going to go with Dame Lillard for the sense of, I think the opposite of voter fatigue is distance make the heart grow founder. We kind of forgot how great Dame was last year when he was out with injuries. This is a team that's going to want to win games. They're here to win now. And yeah, you know, Dame is a little underappreciated in the sense. So you could absolutely see the story going this year as he gets up there in points and, you know, if they push 50, 55 wins, they get a top four seed. I think he's a dark horse for MVP. Does it happen? We'll see. But I think he's good enough to make it happen. It'd be a great, you know, badge to add to his vest. It would be huge because the expectations for Portland aren't great either. Chandler, do you have someone different than Dave? How come no one's saying Kawhi? Like I just feel like something's about to happen out there. Because I feel like that's not too long. When I think of a long shot, like, yeah, like Damian Lillard, they're a really good one. Kawhi, I think they're going to be really good. And I think Kawhi actually has a pretty solid chance if he stays healthy. What if I throw out Carl Adams out there? Somehow, some way, the Minnesota Timberwolves are a top four or five seed. He's their best player and he's built for the regular season. They add Rudy Gobert and he's going to put up Gotti numbers. If he can put up 28, 29, 30 and 10 and 12 and four assists, I like Carl Anthony Towns as the long shot MPP this year.  What did you do with that? I wanted to reach for the stars here and in a world, they're putting up crazy numbers and the Timberwolves being pretty good. Fair. Look, your justification makes sense. I know we're running out of time here, but I do want to get to rookie of the year. Is there anyone that's going to shock us or is this thing already? Is it Ben Carrows to lose, Eddie? I think it's Keegan Murray's to lose. He's in such a great situation in Sacramento. He's going to get all the shots he wants. He's going to have the opportunity to get all the numbers he needs. I think Jaden Ivy's in a similar situation as well as Benedict Matherin. Now, Matherin's coming off the bench as of now. But to me, those are the guys to look for. Yes, Paolo's amazing and he'll have a great season as well. But I'm going to go with Keegan. I think he's got this. It's going to be big for Sacramento in my hometown. I like that. Agree, Chandler? Yeah. For those odds, I like Keegan. He's older. His team's not very good. He's going to put up numbers. My sleeper pick would be Shaden. I think he's the biggest wild card. He's the biggest mystery. Again, Portland, I think they're going to struggle a little bit this year. He's going to get a lot of reps. He would be my sleeper pick just because we really don't know much about him. We're betting big on Portland. Yeah. What do we not know about you? What is going on with you in Portland today? That's interesting. I like it. Guys, this is our first show. I know we only have a few seconds left, but I just want to say I feel pretty good about it. You guys feeling good? I love it. I love it. Because we're going to be back tomorrow. Chandler, who knows where he's coming to us from tomorrow and it'll just be an exciting time to find out. But again, congratulations on the nuptials. Enjoy your Monday night. Tomorrow, it's Christmas Day for the NBA. We'll see you guys tomorrow. You guys, good morning.


Let's go y'all Chris from jaspyscasebreaks.com doing 2023 Bowman Chrome Baseball HTA choice 12 box case break PYT number 5 We're all good to go. I had one filler to do The Bowman number 10 you see that name next see that next to your name on the sheet means you won that from the filler PYTs 6 and 7 on the site right now grabbing teams while you still can jaspyscasebreaks.com and let's do it another full case of HTA Chrome. Thanks again y'all For getting in for this from the straight up spot or from the filler appreciate you either way And good luck In the last case let's see if we can get a little lower than that in this one. Yeah First up will be a Lamar King jr. Non first for the San Diego Padres gonna go to mark that one straight up next up Yosfer Zuleta on the Bowman first For the auto on the blue jays. I'm gonna show ematic some purple For the White Sox Dario Verrero 206 out of 250 Chicago White Sox one of our team random filler spots Gonna go to Zach first up Kristen Monroe Bowman first from the Los Angeles Angels gonna go to Brad Kennedy Corona Bowman first auto for Houston Alexander one of the two top teams in our team random filler Gets the car doesn't get Corona gets the Kennedy Corona card And our frac der and he pressed for the Colorado Rockies 20 out of 4 at 99 Gonna go to Donald another one of our team ranking spots 233 out of 250 on the purple non first auto for Oakland one more for Joe and interesting facing direction here And met zinger Bowman first base for the Milwaukee Brewers gonna go to Darren and last one Nice Alfredo d'Ono on the Bowman first base this one But still a nice name to have that's gonna go to Jordan and the Reds have been straight up I'm the top prospects in this one here number four rated prospect in this international class I think he just has autos in here. So nice hit for Jordan First up Adrian Pinto 100 out of 499 on the refractor first auto for Toronto. I need to show ematic You'll wander Rivera for the Washington Nationals on the Bowman first and Tristan Another one for the Reds Cade Hunter Based on the Cincinnati Reds out of one more for Jordan. Nice Hey, it's another nice name Joe Henry Vargas For my Dodgers mark got the Dodgers straight up. It's the Vargas auto Nice next up Wacom in Gonzalez I'm in first for the Boston Reds on it's gonna go to Adam one of our team random filled spots Another red shimmer second of our second case. Good luck y'all Wow five out of five Alfredo d'Ono What a hit color match and all Jordan double dip and that's a monster right there, man Number four rated on MLB's pipeline in this class That's a monster right there man congrats Jordan, thank you, man. Got some spots straight up and spots in the filler. Hey, it's sometimes karma comes You're way at the right possible time. That is awesome Is HTA the play they'll overdo it all day. You got two more cases of HTA up on the site right now Got your spots while you still can All right Box six starts up with a victor Asturus Bowman first base auto for the Cleveland Guardians gonna go to mark next up Davis and de la Santos Bowman first on the auto for Arizona gonna go to Andy last one speckle for the Astros Camilla Diaz For one Alexander one of those top ones number 17th in this year's class nice hit for Houston and Alexander From the filler yellow And another nice name to start off the second half of this case Rainer Arias For the San Francisco Giants this one's going to go to mark The base Arias thought up nice. That's some green coming up Green Lava for the Braves Javier Valdez 92 out of 99 The rest of the other facts, yeah You have to buy a hobby box nice one here With some more color or fracter the silver packs 30 bucks a spot for the Yankees. Hey Zeus Bastidas 136 out of 4 99 Allegedly when Daniela's first card isn't it? Yankees for Matt Don't you that? Miguel Tamaris on the first auto for Tampa That's Jordan so you got one straight up. I just got one from a filler one of the Tampa Bay Rays It's Mojo coming up For the Mets Deverson Gutierrez For the New York Mets and Armando 110 out of 150 yellow For the Guardians 51 out of 75. Well been Francisca Cleveland going to mark number five prospect in this class by fangraphs got a nice signature to with the big F Nice it It's the fun thing about Doing these that you Kind of warning together who's who's the big name who's got the hype right now? Coming back in a couple in years and seeing you know who's still delivering on that hype or some of the unknown names So to speak From each class that are kind of delivering the now are the high prospects. It's always a fun one to do Got something low coming up next one. It's low at the bottom. It's like orange First auto going to be a Mari Daniel For the Minnesota twins are the one of our team random. It's going to go to Mark upside down here so orange Last card of the box next one up second one going to be Christian Mina woman first auto for the White Sox It's also going to go to Zach I'm pretty pretty big one in the first half of the case and see if the second half can also deliver something nice here orange shimmer Yes, it can wow Brandon maya 16 out of 25 on the orange shimmer auto Matt Smith for the Yankees juicy case here and That is nice right there number nine international prospect to MOB's pipeline What a case this has been we still got three more boxes Crabble used to one more monster for someone. Yeah First up a June Pinto based this time for Shawn and the Blue Jays That Brennan Malone woman first base for the Oakland A's one more for Joe and It's like we've been singing a lot of A's throughout Bowen They're available In a green speaking of A's for the Pittsburgh Pirates is in manual to Reddle Greening on the Pittsburgh Pirates going to go to D. Y. That's the last spot mojo from the filler. Nice, man Okay, the numbers like the numbers in 35 games Second to last box Stop Wade Tidwell From the first base for the Mets one more for Armando one more for the Mets Joel Diaz On the first base out of Armando, can you go three for three three Mets in a box? Make it a personal Let's see a refractor. It's for the Marlins Jose Gerardo 204 out of 499 is denied by Mark. We got the Miami Marlins straight up number 19 It's brought back nicer there Pretty much anybody in that top 20 Some organizations over the 25 Pretty much that top 20s what you're looking for and the last box. Thanks again y'all Yeah, some monsters in this case. We had numbers of six and seven up on the site right now Jasper's case breaks calm Grabber teams for their put into Felix First I'm going to be kinder delgato Matt Smith grabs one more on the base first auto mojo One more for the rink is it's Louis Serna? 101 out of 150 on the Serna first auto Matt Smith doubles up. Can you go three for three on the speckle auto last hit? Gonna be for the raise Brett wisely 49 at a 299 on the Bowman first auto That's one more hit for Jordan and the Tampa Bay raise I'm a 24 race prospect. That's one that that 25 and some now also still pretty good. All right, nice case y'all Let's go through a whole thing. We'll just have those big two for last Some nice names in here another space or not some nice lower stuff in here and nice princesses 75 Some yanks nice Rainer Arias base auto Victor Asturus Joe Henry Vargas Alfredo do no base That's not the last we're gonna see of him Dario Barrero Got the orange shimmer or the orange wave Brendan my ass 16 out of 25 for the Yankees, but the big one reg Reg reds Alfredo do no five out of five on the first auto what a hit Man nice case y'all. Thanks again six and seven up on the site right now. Jasper's case breaks calm. Thanks again y'all. Bye


Okay, we're here, it's live, day two, Oracle Open World. Moscone is draped in red, that means the Cube, and this is the backup and recovery spotlight, focus on data protection as a service. It's a theme, John, that you and I have talked about since, really, we started this back at VMworld in 2010, this notion that backup has to transform, it has to change. Daryl Smith is here, he's the Chief Database Architect within EMC IT, we love to talk to the practitioners within EMC's IT division, very leading edge, set of folks, Daryl, welcome back to the Cube, good to see you again. Thank you very much, appreciate it. So this is kind of your world here, Oracle Open World, all the DBAs hanging out, the whole 60,000 DBAs, I guess, well, maybe tens of thousands of DBAs. So how's the show going for you? This is great, I'm really in my element. This is the place I want to be. Yeah, so what have you been doing since you've been here? Just kicking the tires, they have you working, meeting with customers, are you able to check out what some of your peers are doing? Well, it's been great, I have met with several customers, obviously I've been out here in the exhibit hall floor, there's a lot of great technologies here, but primarily I'm here to get to learn, I'm going to sessions, finding about where the trends are, what's going on with 12C, a lot of great stuff. So what do you make at 12C? It's interesting, there's some really nice features in there, some features I have yet to hear about, and then there's other features that don't really make a whole lot of sense, I think in some cases. Yeah, like what? You're going to nail me, aren't you? No, no, what makes sense, what's confusing to you? I mean, tell Oracle, maybe try to fix it, but no, so let's start with what do you like? I mean, from a practitioner's perspective, what about 12C makes you say, oh wow, I really want that, thank you, Oracle, for doing that? Right, so there's a lot of features that really help with the storage. They've made some great improvements in the prefetch, table prefetches and things like that, very good. There's a lot more integration between the different product sets that they've got, some of the active data guard improvements are really phenomenal. Some of the Golden Gate improvements have been really phenomenal, so there's a lot of great technologies that are packing into it. Right, okay, so the big part of that too is in memory, right, and you guys have some experience with that, I mean. Right. I mean, in memory's been around, that talk's been around, it was, the database has been around. No, no, times 10's been around for quite a while. Yeah, right, so, okay, so that's appealing to you. So you see you guys taking advantage of that over time, is that right, or? Well, you know, it's obviously something we're going to have to look at. There's a lot of in-memory database players now. You know, SAP has HANA, Pivotal has SQLFire, we're definitely evaluating those. We're already starting to use some HANA, some SQLFire. So we're going to have to take a look and see how the implementation was done with 12C, and if it fits our workloads, we'll start using it. So talk about what gets you excited as a DBA. We always hear about doing more with less, you have to do more with less as well. I mean, it's the mantra in IT, but you know, wake up in the morning and say, oh, I got to do more with less. You're probably thinking about, all right, you want to work, how am I going to add value for the business, how am I going to make the line of business more productive, how am I going to drive value, right? So talk about that a little bit in your role as a DBA. Yeah, this is really a very exciting time for me. I've grown up with databases, I've been doing it since Oracle version four. So I've been doing that for a long time, but this next wave of computing is really all about automation, standardization and automation. So the whole IT as a service mantra requires that. I need to be able to automate things so that my DBAs aren't spending their days adding data files and monitoring backups and checking to make sure that the system is running well. I need to automate all that so we can then focus on really getting to that front office, getting in front of the business and understanding what their true problems are so that we can be much more agile in response to those. So I don't know if you were able to hear Stephen Manley's little story about he was talking to a DBA at one point. And the DBA basically said- He kind of threw a son of a bus. You said it again? I said, I think he kind of threw a son of a bus. No, he didn't really throw the DBA in the bus, he kind of threw the backup admin under the bus. Right, well, good point.  Not live anyway. But what he said was that the DBA was frustrated because he or she didn't have any visibility on how the data was being protected and the backup admin said, trust me, I got you covered. Okay, but I want to know more about it. So talk about that a little bit. Yeah, so talk about that a little bit. What was, what did you want that you couldn't get and then we'll talk about how things have changed.  That's definitely a theme that I heard from that last interview. We like to know what's going on, we need to be able to get our hands on it and touch it and feel it.  And then you go talk to the backup admin or you create your ticket and they're like, everything's fine, don't worry about it, it's covered, but the backup is now taking five hours and six hours and you really don't know what's going on. So how can you really trust that it's safe? Nowadays, things are much simpler. Take for example, Enterprise Manager, not OEM, but the Data Domain Enterprise Manager, I can actually go in and see if the backup is running and it's running at peak. So I can truly estimate when that backup is going to be done. Darrell, Jeremy Burton was up on stage in the keynote after Joe Tucci gave the awesome intro, but he's getting into the weeds and getting into the product details and he's talking about the DBA and David and I were just commenting on the intro about the balance between the DBA and other things like recovery, real critical managing the data loss side of it. But Jeremy kind of points out that the DBA roles obviously change with automation changes the game a bit. I mean, it's not replacing the DBA, all that talk is kind of a little bit over the top, but in general, the DBA role is becoming much more versatile, much more needed skills in other areas, whether it's more of analyst role, data science, or getting more geeky into the app side. So in terms of technical, you can be more analyst on data science or you can go in and go deep in the weeds on technology and get into the app side, coding. How do you see that balance and that transition of the new DBA, the modern DBA, where there's range now of skill sets and functionality that they have to do in their job? Right, so referring back to the keynote, it's both disruptive and opportunistic. It's a great opportunities for DBAs to really get themselves out of the weeds. Does everybody really want to add data files and go monitor and check to make sure the backup completed and do installs of the same thing day after day? We don't really want to do that. We want to really watch ourselves. Give me a gun, I'll put it in my head right now. Give me the time to get out there and really understand what our customers need so that I can respond to that. And that's going to not only help me grow personally, but also professionally. So it's a great opportunity. What's some of the vibe out there and the trenches with other DBAs and the peer group out there and the practitioners? I mean, what's the sentiment out there for DBA? Do they like chomping at the bit to do more things? What are you seeing in terms of just general anecdotal trends that you're seeing? Well, once we get past the, you know, I'm drowning and I can't get up, talk in conversation, because we really don't have the time because we're so stuck in the weeds dealing with this growing amount of data. You know, we need some help. And so once we get past that conversation, we start talking about how automation and service-oriented architectures can really help get you out of those weeds. It's a very positive conversation. It's liberation, really. I mean, the DBA gets liberated. Hey, thank you for pulling me out from a certain death. I'm turning the death of boredom, I think. Yeah, the drowning analogy is a good one. I mean, I think the lifeline of automation, DevOps, who's seen with, you know, agile programming has kind of really hit the mark and made the data component as a service very relevant. And I think, you know, EMC and others are talking about this data fabric as an enabler layer. That's not an admin function. It's really more of a robust business mission critical opportunity. It is, it absolutely is. I want to talk about IT transformation, data protection as a service. I want to test some things out.  When you talk to practitioners, we like to test that. So where are you guys, in terms of getting to so-called IT as a service? We've had Sanjay Merchandani before on theCUBE and your new CIO and that was always a vision set forth. Where are you in that so-called journey in terms of getting to IT as a service? And then I want to talk specifically about data protection as a service. Sure, so we've been building IT as a service for a while now. We've built infrastructure as a service, which is interesting. We've built databases as a service, which is interesting.  But really where we're at now is the full automation. So we want to automate and we are automating the entire application stack right from the load balancer all the way down through the database with built-in data protection backups, built-in security, built-in DevOps model, right, with the SDLC integration. We want to go for full automation so that we can really raise all of our common practitioners, our DBAs, our CIS admins up a level. And what's the goal there that you literally have no human intervention other than swapping out a disk drive when it breaks kind of thing? Well, that would be great. I don't think we're going to quite get there. Maybe, you know, when we get to the age of Hal, right, for those 2010 enthusiasts, we might get something like that. But reality is I don't need to spend a lot of hours deploying applications. I don't need a lot of hours configuring systems. I really should spend my time focusing on how can I make that Oracle database run to perfection?  So that we're focused on the internals versus the infrastructure. Okay, and so if what I described is Nirvana and we probably not going to get there in our lifetime, but, and how far can you take that automation? You're saying provisioning, you said load balancing, and you're saying tuning still a lot of manual intervention, obviously. Tuning the application is going to require human intervention. And that's where you actually want to spend your time. Is that right? Okay. Why not be able to provide a better service for the business versus just trying to survive? And now I want to talk about data protection as a service because in a way, data protection used to be pretty simple. So it was, okay, one size fits all. Here's what you get. Databases were like 500 meg back then. Right.  So where are you now with regard to being able to say, okay, this application based on its business value, its RPO and its RTO or whatever business impact analysis you do should have this level of data protection and I want to spend this much versus this app. I want to dial it down or dial it up. Can you actually do that today and how do you do that? You can. I mean, you can literally set service levels for backups. You could set priorities that, you know, one more mission critical system gets the backup resources over another. But I like to think about it a little differently. If I can go ahead and I can automate it all and I've got automated provisioning of my backups. Right. It's very easy to do these days with tools like VCO. And because I've got technologies like data domain boost and data domain itself and RMAN and all these integrations that happen, it's very easy to drop down the DD Boost agent and fully automate that backup. So now that the DVAs have no issues in terms of doing the backups, now throughput has been almost eliminated. Because I'm now doing my D-Doup on the server, essentially I've decentralized that function. So now my backup media doesn't have to worry about doing all that work. I can actually treat every database almost identically and not worry about any one of them losing any of their SLA. All right, so let's drill down to that a little bit. So RMAN is obviously, you know, the oracles. It's really the only backup methodology. If you're going to back up or actually you really should be using RMAN. It really is the only choice. So okay, so, and that's the prism through which you look as a DBA through your backups. It's RMAN. So, you know, everything else is sort of secondary. You want it to integrate with RMAN. So you say data domain has done that and others have done that as well. And now talk about how where DDBoost fits in all that. How do you leverage DDBoost to create a business capability? Right, so to me, DDBoost is really the secret sauce in terms of making this all possible. So DDBoost is integrated with RMAN. So I can use RMAN and just literally straight back up to the data domain appliance. And then I can also have RMAN instruct the data domain appliance to make a copy into a disaster recovery type site. Right, which, you know, we use for, we're DevRefresh right from production and also for offsite tapes. Not really tapes. Oh, you use tapes? I'm sorry. If I say tapes, I'm supposed to say that other word. Can we say that?   Okay, so you use the name tapes because that's the nomenclature of the syntax? That's, you know, I'm old school. What can I say? Or do you actually use... We are tape free. EMC uses no tape. We use no tape. Really, not even for deep archive compliance. When you're de-duping at that kind of a level, all I'm tracking are my changes. So the amount of physical storage required to do database backups is very, very small. Add to that the fact that I've got built-in compression. I literally backed up a 12 terabyte database. First time, no de-dupe down to three terabytes just from compression, which is amazing. So now my next day backup is literally going to compress down to another 100 meg. We can store an awful lot of data on that data domain appliance. And if it starts filling up, we can actually archive it using data domain. And you've got remote sites that you can fail over to in the event of a disaster. Absolutely.  That's not something that you guys are doing.  Okay, but if you didn't work for Joe Tucci, would you use tape? Not if I could help it. Okay. As far as I'm concerned, tape should be dead. The technologies are there today. Interesting. Okay, good. I didn't realize you guys were 100% tape-free. I thought you did like the last resort. There was a time where we would back it up to data domain, and then after a while we would drop it to tape and take it off-site. But now that our data centers are 600 miles apart, I can literally back up to one data domain appliance, have it replicate to another, and that takes care of all of my regulatory needs in terms of the off-site storage. And because it de-dupes down so small, it doesn't really require me a whole lot of this space. Data domain has good tape integration for those customers that don't want to do tape. It does. As you will know.  I did not. I did not. All right, Terrell, I'll give you the last word here. Advice for practitioners trying to get to IT as a service generally, but specifically data protection as a service. What's your advice? What are your roadmaps? What's your prescription for success? Well, I think the key is two-fold. One, we want to make sure that the DBAs are in control of their backups and their recoveries. Most importantly, the recoveries. This is one of our biggest problems. We need consistent backup times. We need consistent recoveries. Using a tool like DDBoost, going straight to data domain, whether that be through a traditional backup media like Networker, or using OEM to actually manage that backup, puts the DBA in control without having to get the backup admin involved to try to get a restore done. But it also gives the backup admin the full control to manage the capacity. Excellent. All right, Terrell. Listen, thanks very much for coming back in the queue. Appreciate you sharing your perspectives and have a good rest of the event. Thank you very much. Okay, this is Dave Vellante with John Furrier. We'll be right back with Caitlyn Fordham. We're going to talk about the portfolio that EMC has, how they're applying it to Oracle. We'll be right back after this.


Hello and welcome to my talk, Back to the Drawing Board, Building Containers with S-Bombs. I'm Nisha Kumar and I'm a senior open source engineer at VMware. So I'm hoping you got enough messaging about S-Bombs and why we need them. But if you haven't, here are a couple of analogies. If you've ever looked at the ingredients on a product's packaging, you may be surprised at what you find. For example, Twinkies are not vegetarian and coconut milk conditioner does not have coconut milk. As with these ingredients, a software bill of materials helps you make informed decisions about the distribution and maintenance of the software you consume, either as a tool or as a dependency included in the software you distribute. You may be asking yourself, why do I need to generate S-Bombs for containers specifically? Well, this is a picture of a Node.js container. As you can see, there are plenty of components included that may not even be needed by a Node.js application. One of my friends on Twitter noted that there was a Libraoffice hanging around there somewhere. I would Node.js require Libraoffice? Who knows?  The number of software components being consumed becomes exponentially large. And it gets very hard to keep track of so many components. So naturally, they are hidden behind many layers of abstractions. A Kubernetes distribution consists of hundreds of components, but it is a dependency in and of itself for a number of services. The abstractions are needed as we cannot keep track of so many components and so many moving parts. As developers, we focus just on the thing that we are building. We know we need certain top-level dependencies, but those dependencies need dependencies. It's turtles all the way down, as they say. The tools we use to build containers are not repeatable and they're not hermetic. Building a typical container requires downloading many artifacts from all over the internet and several configuration steps. Not to mention the volume amounts to the host and copying files from the host into the container. Many of these steps are not repeatable. They are dependent upon the state of the network and the state of the internet and the state of your host machine. You may not be able to rebuild the same container a few months ago from when you originally built it. S-bombs help bring some transparency to the container ecosystem, even highlighting what the known unknowns are and what the unknown unknowns are. They also provide a separation between the source code and the rest of the system required for software to run. You don't need to look at an S-bomb until it becomes necessary to look at them. One question I get asked a lot, as an engineer working for a rapidly transforming SaaS company. Why do SaaS providers need to generate S-bombs in the first place? They are hosting all of the services, they're not delivering any software to a customer. Here's the thing, service providers don't ship software, but they do take custody of the customer's software and provide all the machinery to deploy it and run it. So customers entrust SaaS providers to take good care of their assets. With great power comes great responsibility. The burden of software management now falls on the SaaS provider. Customers are now entrusting their code to SaaS providers and expect that SaaS providers know their infrastructure and their deployment pipelines inside and out. They expect their assets to be secure and auditable. They don't care about what tools and processes are used to do this, but they do care about the risk they will be taking by entrusting a significant amount of their business operations to the SaaS provider. So there is actually more on the line with regards to reputation. And that should mean more investigation into what exactly gets built and shipped. Can a service provider today be sure about what they use to build and ship someone else's code? They may not need to provide this information to a customer, but they certainly need it for themselves. So why not use static analyzers to generate these S-bombs? To understand why, let's take a minute to consider how static analyzers work. In general, static analyzers look for patterns and make inferences about what's in a file based on some rules and heuristics. Typically, there is some software that reads a file, looks up a public database for known patterns, checks to see if those patterns exist in the file and then generates a report. The security solutions that you pay for may make use of a proprietary database, may have an API and a client to query that database, and may generate some fancy reports that makes the decision makers feel good about their decisions. Now, static analyzers or static analysis in general works really well on a large container image, such as the ones you build like how you would provision a VM or a desktop. OSS have metadata and they come with a package manager. One can use the package manager to install some system dependencies, including a programming language tool chain. Then one can use the tool chain to install the app's dependencies and finally make some configuration changes for the apps to work. So all along the way, things like package manifest, license files, documentation and other metadata may get installed onto the container's file system. And that's what static analyzers lead in order to make their inferences about what packages are installed. But all this metadata makes the container too large and too large containers make it difficult to deploy them and distribute them. To reduce the size of the container, we use this thing called multi-stage docker bills. So these multi-stage bills are used to copy out just the artifacts needed for the application to run. We put those artifacts into a minimal operating system, file system that doesn't have any of the metadata scanners expect to find. Further, we use tools like Docker Slim to remove all of the files the app does not open at runtime. So by this stage in the container build process, all the metadata about the container build is gone. So this process is great for reducing the stack surface of a container image, but scanners will not be able to detect any useful information about the container image at the end of it. So how do we build transparency into container builds? How many of you thought, let's use eBPF? Well, we don't have to get that complicated. The thing is we don't need to do things like inspect the Docker build logs or watch the kernel or do nmap scans. Container builders already know some portion of what they are installing. And we already have tools that read package manifest or invoke the package manager or the tool chain to list the transitive dependencies. If container builders can create accurate S-bombs for the pieces they are installing and reuse the S-bombs created by folks like OS suppliers or software packages or any other automation, then they can include them in the container build and distribution ecosystem. What that means is that we have the best of both worlds. We can reduce the size of the container images and we don't have to sacrifice any of the metadata that we collect along the way. So today I'm going to show you a workflow that's a good starting point to generate S-bombs during container builds. And we're also going to sign the container image and the S-bombs and push them to a local OCI registry. So we will be making use of several tools to accomplish this. We'll be using Builder to build the container. We'll use turn to inventory the container to generate an S-bomb. We'll use ORA CLI to push the S-bombs to the local registry and we'll use six doors cosine to sign all of the artifacts. Now, all of these tools make use of a concept called OCI artifacts. And I'll talk a little about that later. But first, let's go on to the demo. Okay, let's see if we can do this 10 minute demo. I have here a vagrant box, which I have provisioned by the way you can provision your own vagrant box by using the tools. This repo container is with S-bombs that is hosted on GitHub and I'll share the links to that later. So part of the provisioning of this vagrant file is a vagrant box is creating a minimal root FS using Dev Bootstrap. So let me show you what that looks like. So that's a Debian root file system. And I created that with Dev Bootstrap. Let's look at the containers with S-bombs repo. As you can see, there's a Debian tar ball right there. That's just a tar of this Debian root file system. Okay, we need a local OCI registry. We'll use Podman to set that up. And that's just pulling this Docker image and running it as a demon. So let's give that a whirl and it's done. Let's check if it's running and there we go. It's running. Let's check if we have any images. Yeah, we just have the registry. All right, let's get to building our first image. I have a convenience script over here that I'd like to go over. So what we're doing is we're using Builder to build an image from scratch. That's what this is. And that will return a container. And then we'll mount this container. I'm using Builder Unshare and that lets me mount without root privileges. And I need this mount point because that's the one that I'm going to point to turn to in order to generate an S-bomb. And then I'm going to add the Debian tar ball to the container. That's going to take a little while when it runs. But what should happen at the end is that we have now a minimal Debian container. And we'll commit that container to an image. And then we will inventory that container. We point the mount point to turn and we'll generate an S-bomb called Debian S-bomb and we'll use the format SBDX JSON. So SBDX is a standard S-bomb format. And one of the like sub formats that SBDX supports is JSON. OK, so we have an image and we have an S-bomb. And then we will use Builder to push the image to the local registry. And then we'll use ORAS to push the S-bomb also to the local registry. And then we'll use Cosign to sign both the image and the S-bomb. And we'll do some cleanup over here. All right, let's see how this goes. So this is where we add the Debian tar ball to the container. Off it goes. Now we generate the S-bomb. That was done. We now have the image and the S-bomb. Now we push the image, the S-bomb and the signatures. So yay, we're done. OK, now you should see that there's... Oh, I don't have the Debian S-bomb here. Never mind. It is up. It is in the registry and we're going to use that to create the next container that we're building on top of this Debian container. Let's take a look. So this is a convenience grip. We'll start off with verifying the container that we built. And that should work. And then we will use Builder to build on top of this image. We do the same thing that we did last time. We did Builder from and that Debian image. Then we mount it because we need that mount point. We need to give that to turn. And then we're going to just install some stuff. We're going to install Python 3. And then we're going to commit this image as Python and with a tag 3. OK, then we're going to download the Debian S-bomb. And before that, we'll verify whether it's signed. And once after we verify that it's signed, we pull it using ORAS. And then we make turn inventory the container with the Debian S-bomb as a context. And we will use the same format as VDX JSON. And we will produce an S-bomb for just the Python bits. We can now push the Python image and the S-bomb. You'll use Builder to push it, push the image. And we'll use ORAS to push the Python S-bomb. And that would include the Debian S-bomb and the Python S-bomb because we needed this guy to be able to inventory this guy. And then we're going to sign our new artifacts using cosine. All right, let's give this a whirl. OK, we verified it. And this is building, installing Python 3. And we're storing signatures. And we verified our S-bomb. And we're done. OK. Now I want to show you the two S-bombs that we had. We'll use JQ to filter it because there's a lot of data in it. So let's do JQ. I just want packages. That's a list. And I want the name. And I'll give, hopefully it should be there on the system. There it is. OK. So those are all the packages that are installed on the Debian file system. Now we'll see what that looks like for the Python S-bomb. OK, not that many because along with the Python 3 that we installed, we also brought in all of these transitive dependencies. And that's what this S-bomb contains. All right, so cool. That's the end of my demo. Let's see, I have 20 more minutes. And I can switch back here. Hopefully there we go. OK, so there are certainly a lot of gaps that we need to fill out for this to become a viable or at least have like an easier UX than what I've shown. And one of them is using artifact management. And that's with OCI artifacts. So OCI artifacts is basically using the open container initiatives, image and distribution specification to store artifacts in container registries that are not container images. So in order to support that requirement, there are a number of changes that need to be done on the OCI image spec and on the OCI distribution spec. And there's a working group under the OCI that aims to do this. So this would help us not manage so many tags. And instead, you'll be able to refer to all of the supplemental artifacts for the container image with just one tag. The other thing that maybe you've noticed is that the method in which we used to build the container was still using the old method of using the package manager or AppGet install Python 3. That is not really reproducible. So repeatable builds in regards to containers is basically just recovering a file system from a cache. And that's not what we want. What we really want is the ability to redo that Docker run or build a run such that you get the same set or similar set of files at the end of it every time you run it. And this is a problem that's already solved by Linux distro tools. And these are good places to look for ideas and inspiration on how to make repeatable container builds happen. Where you can get involved, I have some links to the OCI artifact references proposal that Steve Lasker has against the Open Container Initiative. Please come and join the turn community meetings, because we talk a lot about this ecosystem and how turn can help. You can read up on the update framework, which is the backbone of SIGSTOR and Cosine. And of course, there's a link to our friends at SIGSTOR. OK, some resources. This demo is hosted on GitHub. It's public. You can check it out. I don't think I'm going to. I don't expect to have any contributions. But if you have a question or an issue, feel free to file a GitHub issue. Here are a number of blogs discussing OCI artifacts. And it's a concept that is a little difficult to get your head around. And I hope that these blogs would be useful to you. Dan Loring of Cosine fame has also written a blog about the update framework, which is a nice, gentle introduction to the update framework. This is also a concept that is difficult to get around. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. And then there's a link to the turn repo and the SBD expect. And you can talk to me on Twitter at these places. And these slides will be available. OK, and with that, that's the end of the talk. Thank you for listening. I'm Nisha Kumar.


I think we can win, it's an MMP election. People will start focusing during the election campaign and it'll be about the future of New Zealand, it'll be about policy, not simply a beauty contest. No, I'll be leading Labour through into the election and looking forward to forming a government after November the 26th. Well, this poll is worse than other polls that show the gap much closer, but it has been a couple of hard weeks in politics. I think we get the focus back on the issues that Labour stands for, we can win. If we're distracted, then people will turn up with the results that you're suggesting. Well, I saw the item on TV three last night. I thought it was well and truly overhyped to the extent that Trevor Mallard was asked if there were any leaks in the caucus and he said, yeah, down there, pointing at the toilet. And Paddy Gow said, oh, Shane Jones then and ran away and wrote a story. Look, there's a lot of hype about that. That's not being discussed in the caucus of the Labour Party. We're focused on winning the selection on the policy releases that are coming up. And I think as we focus the public's attention on those areas like asset sales, betrayal of promises over KiwiSaver, we'll see people voting on those issues at the election and that's our intention. There have been no factions in the Labour Party either based on ideology or on personalities. We have got a united, a disciplined and a determined team. There's no question about Phil Goff's leadership. He has the full support of the caucus, he's done. There's no question about changing leaders or doing anything of that sort. Well, look, you know, I've got work to do myself. I accept that. Yeah, that's part of the challenge of the job. I've got no doubt that I have the full support of my caucus. Labour is committed to being strong, united and determined in opposition. Obviously, I share in that responsibility the things I need to do differently and better. But there are a lot of other reasons as well. I just think it's about connecting with people out in the election. Do you think it's time to evaluate leadership, perhaps? No. I have the full and utter support of my front bench colleagues. I've heard of no leadership concerns. There is no question of support for my leadership. There never has been, despite speculation, from political opponents. And he's got to capture New Zealand's imagination and for New Zealand to see him as an alternative. It sounds to me like you don't think Phil Goff is the right alternative, Judith. I've said what I intend to say. The leader of the Labour Party is right here, and he has my full support. We know the hand of political opponents has been behind this. They have done their best to destabilise us. In fact, they've only made us stronger.  When he fails, Grant Robertson will be there in his shining armour, ready to take over. If David Shearer gets the role, I'll be done. He's safe from Grant Robertson. Absolutely, absolutely. For three years. I am totally committed to David Shearer as the leader of the Labour Party if that's what the caucus decision is.  Frankly, that's just nonsense.


So there's a little bit more news that we didn't quite get to in this last episode. Besides, lots and lots of rocket launches, Mike. There were lots and lots of EVAs as well. That's right. There was US astronauts at the International Space Station conducted two space walks or extra vehicular activities within five days of each other to conduct some maintenance on the station's robotic arm, as well as perform some other tasks as well. Now for this, the primary reason for these space walks, or rather the first one, which happened on Thursday, October 5th, was to replace a grapple fixture or rather the hand of the Canada Arm II robotic arm. Now Canada Arm actually has two of these hands, one on each end of the arm, so that it can grapple to a new location whenever they need to move the arm to accommodate certain movements or whatever activities they might be doing. Now one of the latch mechanisms on these hands have failed a couple of times, and so the first rest of the space walk, which as I said happened on Thursday, was to replace the faulty one. This was done by astronauts Randy Bresnick, who you can see on the left, and Mark Van de High, who is on the right. Now after finishing the replacement of the hand, the space walkers did a couple of more low priority maintenance tasks before heading back inside and preparing for the next EVA five days layer. Now the second space walk, the primary goal for it was to actually lubricate the new hand as well as finish preparations for its usage, but there was a couple other tasks as well. Mark Van de High was using the lubrication gun to lube up a lot of the different screws and different attachment points to make sure that everything would run smoothly, and they also replaced cameras on the left side of the station's truss and the right side of the station, including a faulty HD camera, which provides views of docking and visiting vehicles that has broken down. So they replaced that one and tested out all of the new cameras and checked them all out. So they were able to do a couple of those other smaller tasks like putting on some insulation on some hand rail covers, and a couple of tasks that were actually scheduled for the next space walk as well. But it's really cool to see a lot of humans working in space so regularly and doing a lot of these activities around the space station. So hopefully we'll be able to get a lot more use out of this and see a lot more cool things in the future. So very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very cool. Thank you, Mike. And now on our previous show, 10.38, we had a simulated Mars Chat with Icarus 1. And if this and other lots of spacey things interest you, feel free to join us live every Saturday at 1800 UTC.