Good morning, everybody. Can you hear me okay? I'm a loud talker anyway, so I'm never really that worried about it So thank you so much for joining us early on a Friday morning my name is Allison cook and I work with an organization called the story of stuff project and We talk a lot about how our stuff is made How what happens to it when we're done with it? Which makes me particularly excited to have this conversation this morning with these fine gentlemen here So we're going to talk about kind of moving from disposable to durable goods And so I have on the panel here with me Andy from Yardle and Thaddeus from Herman Miller and Sean from Fairfax and so we're going to talk about this from the production angle from the consumption angle and kind of from the cultural perspective and we're going to Talk a little bit amongst ourselves and then because we have the opportunity to talk with you We're going to kind of open it up to a broader conversation. Does that work with everybody? Okay, excellent So in kind of getting us warmed up this morning. I thought that we could talk about Just starting off with kind of in your personal lives What is something? We'll start with you Andy over there Um What's something what it what is something that you have had for the longest or that has history? Yeah, I've got a good morning. Hello, Andy Rubin from Yardle You know one of one of the items that I've had a long time is actually a Patagonia It's a Patagonia made Piece of it's it's it's like a piece of long underwear a Patagonia top And it was something that actually got when I was in high school. I used to run quite a bit and Had this in high school took it to college. It's kind of the item that is always Every time I moved throughout college, which happens every year in college It was always the item that was surely packed in my bag and would always make it to the next place And I was recently I feel like in the last few weeks I was I was running where I live now in San Francisco and still wearing the same top and it's been You know, I mean it's been 30 some years. I've had this same It's a piece of Kathleen long underwear and it is just as good as it was 30 some years ago And it's one of those, you know, I mean, it's nothing that you would think long underwear would ever be that special But what's just what's amazing about it is how darn well it was made and the fact that I'm still using it 30 plus years later And it's been through. I don't know how many summits on mountains. How many runs how many apartments? Houses cities and it's still going strong So I think it's just an amazing testament to well-made items and the ability to Have a few really awesome well-made items and allow them to kind of go with you through your journey And where it takes you all right So I'd love to say that it's my phone because you know the day when you can say look at this cool iPhone 2 and I still have it and it's 10 years old and that's a cool thing to do and it still works would be Awesome, we're not quite there yet So for me I have a Cannondale road bike that I bought when I was 23 and I'm just about 40 now And that has moved with me through many many different states And the only thing I've ever had to do to that bike was put on a new chain So you know other than keeping the chain lubricated it moves with me everywhere. I've gone I ride it all the time and it for years and years and years. It was my daily commuter bike, so Again a testament to those durable goods that are easy to maintain Upgrade and keep going just stay with us and they just keep going and going going and I will probably have that bike forever Thing I've had the longest is actually my boo-boo bear There's a first gift I ever received. I think I was a month old and Continues today. There's there's no eyes left on it nor nose nor mouth But it's really interesting because under its armpits the material is almost the same as it was Many many years ago where the rest of it's been faded or knotted up and so forth I guess the other piece is also an apparel piece of apparel. I bought 20 years ago I used to live near Hates Street here in San Francisco and I was a college student And I really struggled with the purchase because I needed a warm jacket for the the summers of San Francisco And it was quite expensive, but I remember my mom said little but good by good quality You don't need a bunch of stuff and I did and it's still there today And I I enjoy it so much that I've replaced the zipper Still wear it and it's a great conversation piece because it's basically says analog spelled backwards Which always brings up a number of conversations, so it also connects people so it's a very dear thing to me So one of the kind of consistent threads that I'm hearing and each of your stories actually has to do with the way that things are made and designing things to last And so I was wondering Thaddeus if you could talk a little bit about what you guys are doing at Herman Miller In terms of moving us closer to things that are around for a while sure, so You know if you don't know who Herman Miller is you can certainly feel free to Google Herman Miller But in general we make long-lasting iconic products for places where people work live heal predominantly furniture products and So we've done a couple of things so we have products that we Designed and created and sold in the 1950s that people still use today So those products from way back when are still today in use and still being handed down again and again And are still coveted in iconic products So one of the thing is really good design if you can design a product really well Like I was talking about the iPhone 2 or you know, whatever other item you might have what I what I think is the coolest thing is If it's cool today, it'd be awesome if in 20 years it's still cool and people still want that item so once in a while we see You have a whole office floor of air on chairs and while those are still iconic today Somebody might say we don't like this design anymore or this aesthetic We want to get rid of all these chairs which are perfectly functional and will be for years and replace them with something more updated So that is a piece that we're trying to look at and and with the iconic design design around but in addition You know end of life is always a big deal for for any product and especially for a durable good and especially in the furniture industry It's been extremely difficult to solve end of life And so how do we take a product when it's either at its end of life or ready to be? Upgraded to something else and get it to be either recycled and rebuilt into a new product or have a second life by being refurbished or reused So we're looking at how we address that by closing that loop at the end of life So a we try to design all of our products to be recyclable so you can disassemble You know if you think about a high-end task chair They might have 300 different components and you have to be if you can't easily disassemble that that piece of furniture You're just gonna throw the whole thing in the trash and be done with it So you have to easily disassemble it very quickly into parts that are easily identifiable so you can get them recycled into new products so we've done that as well as trying to increase the amount of recycled content we use in our products and Try to close the loop for people that want to upgrade when they still have perfectly good products So we're working with Goodwill Industries, which is in every major city And we're trying to find a way to partner with Goodwill to take product back So that Goodwill can then redistribute that to people that need it and resell some of it And then the stuff that nobody wants or is broken they can recycle that so it can be used in a new product as Well, we're working with our suppliers To have them take back pieces of furniture and reincorporate it back into our own product again So there's a lot of different avenues. We're working We don't know what the final answer is and there's not an ideal end-of-life story today for furniture goods And that's something we're still looking for everyone out there today to help us solve Great. Thank you. I One of the things that you're that you're bringing up that I actually want to pass over to you Sean and then over to your way Andy is this question of end-of-life And that it's in an inherently complicated Terrain in terms of what we do with the stuff when it's no longer either aesthetically pleasing to us or it no longer serves It's kind of technological functions I'm currently at a moment where my phone is is is a hindrance to communicating with other people because I've dropped it so many times And so kind of Sean. I'm curious kind of in the work that you do around Fairphone Thinking about products that are no that Require upgrades that you know, there's no such thing presently as a classic phone So kind of how do you address that from a cultural angle and then also how do you address the end-of-life issue? Thanks a lot. So a couple things just a couple of statistics 65% of mobile phones are not recycled or repurposed There are more mobile phones on the planet than there are people so obviously there's a lot of extra Mobile phones How many of you have one or two sitting in your dresser drawer closet somewhere? I think we all can admit that Some of us might think they may end up in a museum one day So we're holding on to them or just can't you know get away from that old Nokia that you could throw against a wall And it wouldn't break Only 1% of phones are going to take back programs from our research And it's a complicated piece of equipment. There are you know anywhere between the 700 and 1,000 parts in a phone over 20 minerals in a phone So at end of life a couple things we're looking at we're young companies. So we've only been around since late 2012 so fortunately none of our phones are coming back except for some of the that the You know common technical issues that you may deal with and if you haven't heard of Fairphone We're only selling in Europe at this time and you can check out our our website So we're doing our couple things One is as a part of the the pricing of our phone and the price all all the pricing our phone is fully disclosed on our website Portion of that goes to a program in Ghana where a lot of e-waste is is ending up So basically unfortunately today what we're having to do is remove phones out of out of Acre in Ghana and Ship them to Belgium for proper reprocessing and recycling or repurposing of the phones simply because after the sort of the precious materials have been taken out of phones from In the e-waste dump. They're often incinerated or burned. So While you're still have a co2 issue of having to ship this back into Europe if you look at the footprint It's it's much more minimal and also Health and safety toxicity issues with communities that either pickers on the site or working in the area But eventually like to build a value added operation in Ghana where things are repurposed and recycling So those funds are then being shipped back to build a program locally. So that's one thing we're doing the other thing is When our phones do need do reach their end of life or Have issues we're now selling spare parts on our on our website. So You can repair your own phone if you choose to do so and we're encouraging that And we've developed a collaboration with iFixit some of you may be familiar with them So they put together a repair ability manual on our phone Deconstructed our our phone to make it easier and engage people around Repairability issues. So in the past we've held urban mining workshops, right? So how do you mine things out of existing phones? But what we're moving into is repair ability workshops and what we're finding already in Europe is people are doing meetups in cafes in Madrid meetups in London And talking through these issues and it's really important to our business model because We use the phone as an artifact to tell a story We want people to engage with their products and the whole value chain of that product And this is a way for people to connect very deeply with their products through repair ability That's exciting And I think one of the things that's particularly exciting to me about that is the way in which kind of durable goods fixable Goods allow not only for a story to kind of build around it, but also a community And I was wondering Any of you could speak a little bit to kind of the work that Yurtle is doing to take stuff that we no longer need and build community Yeah, absolutely. So Yurtle Yurtle is a store where people give and get items everyday items for free So the idea is that the world's largest warehouse bigger than Walmart's warehouses and Amazon's warehouses combined are our collective closets and That when items are well made as opposed to buying a new item that comes with an incredibly long supply chain With technology and mobile communication with information we can get that item from down the block or next door And so what we see in terms of items We joke about a scale that we've made up and we call it the Lego to personal printer scale And on one side you've got Legos where when you're done with a set of Legos They're still perfectly good, right? So at this point there are 62 Legos for every man woman and child on the planet Think about how many Legos that is and the ability to to inspire more children with a single set of Legos is a massive Opportunity and Legos when you pass on a Lego set even if the set is not complete There's still a lot of value in that set of Legos on the opposite end of this scale We talked about the personal printer because we see these items move from hand You know person to person on yurtle and the personal printer for us is is one of those items that never goes well Everyone's got extra personal printers because oftentimes they come when you buy a new computer They sit in a closet or garage and you say wow, that's a great item I should pass on the printer you get the new printer and you can't get a driver for Mavericks or you can't get a driver for you know for Windows 8 and It almost is I mean it's you know called planned obsolescence But it's it's troublesome for us because people are excited to pass on something of value and get something of value And yet they can't use it and it's only a year and a half after it was produced And so we've got that scale and one of the things that we see is we see a future where companies that make things That have a utility after the initial sale in a world with more technology will be more successful This world we're moving into with more information more transparency and more ability to get value out of things that are well made Will benefit those who make better items? that's great and and Exciting to me in terms of thinking about a world where in which durability is a brand value And I guess I'm curious then to ask Kind of any of you who would like to field this question kind of where are you seeing? Kind of a raise of hope in the field in terms of the kind of broader shift from the hyper-disposable 72 micro fashion seasons in a year You know printers that cost more to refill the cartridge than the printers worth itself Etc. Etc. Kind of I know a lot of bad things. That's kind of my job. I can ruin anything for you But what is where are you seeing kind of positive shifts in your own companies in the field generally? Kind of what's what's got you guys excited? One of one of the things that is blowing me away, and it has been for the past several years It's been the sharing economy And if you think about the sharing economy whether we're talking about Airbnb in a place to stay or we're talking about relay rides or Lyft we're talking about the ability of of more utility for existing assets That is enabled by technology right by the computers and connectedness that we all carry with us as phones And so the the hope in that for me is when I look at a company like Airbnb I feel like in insustainability, so I'd started sustainability for Walmart back in 2004 and there's so much conversation about making things Oftentimes it's about making things a little bit less bad And so there was so much conversation when you think of hotel rooms about our hotel rooms are made with FSC certified wood, and we don't have any off-gassing of paints and Hang your towels up so we're not washing your towels again, and everyone's kind of Optimizing the existing world and these kind of little bits and pieces and then here comes a consumer-oriented Option Airbnb and says don't build the hotel at all look at all the excess rooms We have and in a course of four years Airbnb has become the largest hotel chain in the world passing IGH that's been around for 73 years and so my excitement in that is not only that we're not Just focused on FSC woods and FSC is great But no matter how much we focus on hey our hotel rooms are made with FSC wood We're still building them at an incredible rate And so as opposed to that a consumer-oriented or kind of driven change where people say wow Airbnb I can stay for a lot less money and have a great community experience Drives people away from needing to build them with any kind of wood no matter how sustainably harvested that wood was And I would agree that's actually what I was going to talk about that if you look at the durable goods industry There's there's some things that we could probably use like you know in the past when everyone had a desktop computer and a tower if you knew what you're doing and it was fairly simple to basically plug and play and build your own tower And so can you do that with a cell phone some day so that you can again? What Sean was talking about integrate different components change it up change the face easily So that you can always change your aesthetic or add the latest technology to it without completely throwing away That durable good and buying a new one And the I mean the other thing really is the sharing economy so Craigslist and Yurtle and eBay Just didn't exist years ago and for a durable good You know what most people will do is either store it somewhere and then you know when that person passed away You've got this house full of stuff that nobody wants and you'd pull up a dumpster and just get rid of it all And I've done that well now You know I pulled out some steps from my house and put in new steps because I had steps That were 40 years old and they had been covered with carpet the entire time and when the installer put them in in the 70s He stained half of them when he was staining the the trim on the walls and there was paint on them And they're a little bowed well So I wanted brand new steps that weren't gonna be covered with carpet yet I found a home for those old steps within five minutes on Craigslist and somebody paid to take those away from me and Put them in their house so that sharing economy and the ability to Showcase that I've got these goods and other people might want them and be able to do something with them other than the landfill I think to me is really big and you know, hopefully there are other innovations coming For instance, you know, we're looking at Plastics that take carbon dioxide out of the air to build the plastic So some of these new innovations that these smaller tech companies are coming up with can be really exciting if we just keep seeing them And they keep coming Just a quick comment on that. I think Actually the the crisis the economic crisis Has been a real reflection point for a large number of people and maybe it's the first time They've gone back to a tailor to have their clothes stitched up rather than tossing them out To have a sole replaced on their shoes rather than buying a new pair And you know while that may be small people Hopefully will be bringing that forward again that that's acceptable and Okay to do and I think another large trend that was mentioned earlier is the level of transparency the radical transparency that's Coming forward and really allowing us to see throughout the whole value chain into new communities and to the Challenges of those communities that will create awareness over time. I mean everyone this room is aware We're living off of two and a half planets today. We cannot continue to consume as we Have been since the industrial evolution We're reaching limits And I'm seeing more connectivity around that messaging It can be tricky But one thing I think we've done effectively and we'll see how long we can carry the interest is Enabling people to connect with a product in a different way not by dooming gloom sort of Broadbrush painting but actually engaging people in a light lively creative Manor and a sexy manner so they stay engaged with the issues But when you're you know talking about very difficult problems like conflict minerals and fueling wars Atrocious labor conditions and in factories or environmental degradation and in Ghana people easily switch off to that So how do you continue to keep people engaged in the conversation in a way that they want to share that with with others? So I think the transparency trends are very exciting and will connect people to different issues But also their their products in a very different way going forward So as we're looking at these kind of broader systems of production and consumption And you know, you guys are all feeling jazzed. I feel jazzed. Everyone feels jazzed. We're psyched We're moving from disposable to durable goods. I live in a shared housing community my entire wardrobe second hand I invest in my pat a Gucci. It's amazing That being said It I you know I live in the Bay Area and there are things about this conversation that feel very small to me very valuable very Restorative very nurturing but still happening at a relatively small scale And so I'm curious kind of where you see the obstacles In terms of making it so that kind of writ large We are shifting from disposable to durable goods and then also kind of where you see opportunities to Scale up going forward Yeah, I want to share I want to share just a personal example of something I live through that I'll date my sustainability experience back a bit when Walmart was pushing CFL bulbs So this is back in 2005 and my own experience I mean Walmart is a is a mass market retailer So it's generally a cross-section of the US economy and I'm talking about the US specifically I remember the effort to actually move people from Incandescent's to CFL's and it made so much sense on the surface in Terms of the ROI right the ability to save money with these bulbs So at first in a lighting aisle we tried just big signs right and explaining how much money it would you know This and that it almost felt like the packages look like a PhD of why you should buy this bulb and what we'd watch customers do is come down the aisle with a Child in a cart and say and in general have four seconds to make a decision about which light bulb to buy and They would push all the signs out of the way so they could get the light bulb It looked like the one they'd bought before so they could get the darn light to work because lives are too busy And so again and again, you know with sustainability and Walmart and then later running private brands for Walmart That was the experience that I had which is that no matter how much we are more transparent about the supply chain there is a very limited amount of Patience that people have for something that isn't going to very directly benefit them and So I just believe that the changes, you know all the transparency and those things are great When we think about moving a mass market We have to realize that it's gonna have to somehow address something very close to home or personal for people Be it better design be at the Herman Miller chair that we just got for our office from the 1960s and paid Almost as much as the new chairs that we were buying because it is such a darn cool chair That we could buy it on eBay for nearly as much as we pay for a new one And it looks beautiful and there's something beautiful about having different looking chairs So I think that it's got to have some for mass movement. It's got to either save people money very directly Be a better product for somebody save people time. It's got to have a personal benefit and to echo on that I think that's The the upfront initial cost is is a big deterrent from disposable to durable So, you know if you think about buying, you know an incandescent light bulb for a nickel versus an LED light bulb for $29 maybe $10 or $11 now. It's a huge difference, you know when you just need to run to the store and grab a light bulb Here's one a whole pack for a dollar of five light bulbs or one for $11 or $29 depending on which brand you're buying That's a big deal And if that LED light bulb then fails within the first year, you're out the same, you know, this great amount of money So it's not only does the quality of what you're buying have to be very Apparent and there has to be some sort of fallback of like hey if that LED light bulb fails in the next five years You're we're gonna replace it so there's some sort of safety net there to encourage people to spend that much extra money On a durable good but also the education so it's almost a cultural shift and the educational piece that Can't necessarily be there in the store aisle because that's not when you have the time to make the decision and Shifting enough that people understand that value proposition of why am I gonna buy this durable good? because I can sell it for almost the same amount that I bought it for 10 years from now if I buy whatever it is a Rolex watch or something not that anyone's gonna buy watches anymore, although I hear they're popular again, so suddenly all the tech guys have watches again instead of a phone, but If you know you can get the same amount of money you paid for it anytime in the future Then it makes sense to spend that much more money on a good that's gonna be durable and coveted years from now It would be I think the point you bring up about price is a really important one that oftentimes these goods are premiumly priced because of the quality built into them and one of the Rays of hope I have in the mass sense at least from observations on Yurtle We worked with Patagonia last Black Friday and while Patagonia garments can be I mean they are in general premium price Based on the quality and the way they're made as people You know free these jackets to put them back in play from closets, right? Many of us have extra Jackets like this and closets They ended up going to people who hadn't Who hadn't been able to access Patagonia before? So we followed up with many people who got Patagonia's for the first time and actually as a brand that makes quality items You know from it allowed a brand to Start at a premium price point and then continue to get better with time as it got passed on from person to person And our belief is what we'll see over time is that we have created, you know more people who will Opt into Patagonia while there's a need for fewer jackets And so I believe with the sharing economy and the ability to move these goods around even though they're premium priced initially Brands that make benefit brands that benefit from these items changing hands Will ultimately have a pathway to get them in someone's hands and then have them use 10 or 20 times not just once just a quick comment on obstacles so You know fear phone started as a campaign around conflict minerals really a campaign platform And then we decided a couple years later make a phone And really that was about you know if you want to understand the system You need to be a part of that system and open it up and we're you know Our mantra is if you can't open it you don't own it and we mean it so but we're now part of a very large complex system and we're tiny we're a tiny player in that system, right? We're going to suppliers initially. We're only three people None of us had ever made a phone before we told them we were going to crowdfund the campaign through pre-sales We had no street credibility whatsoever, and you know went to many meetings different provinces The the management didn't even show up on several occasions. So That is a huge barrier that we have We were able to sort of patch together a Value chain that that made sense for we were where we were at at the time But it's also electronics industry is a very secretive industry, right? So IP and fortunately found suppliers that want to play with us right so Commitment to transparency where we you know we report on factory conditions on our lifecycle assessment and so forth But there are great barriers still in that industry and as we look at our next generation of phone which actually In design brief. It's very much focused on durability and repair ability, and that's what we'll go and our first phone We couldn't do much for the design We worked with OEMs because we were a small player now that we've proven there's a market We can basically do the whole design brief which really starts opening the system up And we can be more selective of our of our suppliers But ultimately we have this conundrum We don't want to create more consumption of phones yet in order for us to Maintain our business and also create more impact ultimately do need to sell more phones And we've sold 25,000 we're in the process of selling another 35,000 But that is tiny in this marketplace and how can you scale change being such a small player in that marketplace? And that's something we're we're Faced with one quick example We didn't want to create a protective cover for the phone again You know more stuff out there, and you could buy one but Customers for demanding it. They wanted something that would protect the phone and and so forth We'd like to do away with that and in the next generation of phone And we actually turned some good income from producing, you know that cover that first cover And now we've gone to we worked with 3d hubs So you could download your design and have it printed, you know your cover printed nearby and Most of those most of that income now goes to 3d hubs But we had to make a tough decision because there's a nice revenue stream for our business and and to grow our business But this was much more aligned with our model and we're constantly faced with those types of dilemmas around consumption and and the like So I'm just gonna ask kind of one more question, and then we'll turn it over to all of you guys out there And so I guess my question is this then the distributed nature of the work That one of the things that you know, I think about in the work that I do at the story of stuff is you know 70% of a product's environmental impact is locked in at the design stage and so how Whether you're designing a phone or a chair or a jacket How what do you see happening or kind of what is it? Where do you see opportunities for innovation in terms of rethinking the way that we design products the way that we make them You know that there's I think also incredible energy impacts in terms of like the way in which we produce things and then Distribute them so that the 3d hubs is particularly exciting because then you're not shipping things all over the place and kind of building a network So in that regards kind of where do you see things happening in terms of shifting the way that we produce things and the way that we design things Yeah, and that's so that's a really good point that a Lot of people think about the distribution channel and the distribution chain the transportation chain of shipping something from Asia to the US and then distributing it or Central manufacturing distributing it distributing out from a central manufacturing facility If you look at it from a life cycle impact standpoint that distribution is Not even in the environmental impact now that doesn't mean that it's Unimportant and in my mind, you know the way I would I would see you know There are transportation system is aging and we need to fix it and depending on the cost of fuel that can really radically change The environmental impact might be low, but the fuel cost might be extremely high in the future or variable and so People like Herman Miller where we do really good design Potentially, you know, we could be creating a design and creating that IP and then what we do is we Authorize sites around the world and around the country to produce that design for their local market We have no plans to do that right now But that would be sort of like the next wave of innovation of local manufacturing creating local jobs Where we still do what we do best, which is design develop that product from from inception It's a great point you make about Transportation and the overall I think that transportation can be one of those things It's easy to see and point a finger at but when you look at the scope of it It's not actually nearly as relevant as the way that the cotton was originally planted watered Any of the true as story of stuff right any of the true Supply chain implications and it's I think it's a cautionary note about Measurement in general I think it's very easy to get fixated on the things that are easy to measure Such as the elements that go into a product as opposed to the harder things to measure That might be the overall not just how a pair of shoes are made But how much they're worn and where they go after and so that is much more complicated to To actually keep a perspective on and so often it it gets ignored in favor of the things that are easy to measure and potentially less meaningful and the The shift, you know that the idea of consumption although the the economic Slowdown right had this massive dip in consumption. It's come back to the same level as if that as if that never happened and so I think that it's you know as we think about design being design being a I Guess a Mindset right to think about the bigger picture of the system the good design thinks about that. There's some products that I've become more of a fan of even you know, Ikea often will get We'll take we'll take hits from being inexpensive furniture But one thing that's done very well the Billy bookcase has had the same dimensions since the late 70s And so if you have a Billy bookcase and you move into a new room and you need to make it 12 inches taller you go to the Ikea and get the exact same topper for a Billy bookcase And it's still a functional piece of furniture Whereas if you end up getting a piece of what's referred to in the industry as knockdown furniture, right? Very inexpensive furniture The manufacturer might be a one-year manufacturer and there is no ability to repair that add on to it Anything right it is that's it And so I think in this in this trade-off between things that you it's always easy to sell in this consumption mindset One more unit of the of the item that is four dollars less But ultimately that business as we have mobile technology and you can get anything on Amazon That business is not a business. I would want to be in because the margins keep getting lower The businesses that I would choose to be in going forward of the businesses that can make use of a Well-designed Billy bookcase, but as you can always sell something to a good design You can always be in a relationship with a customer as opposed to a one-time in and out transaction Yeah, I think I sort of covered that off and some other comments around distributive manufacturing and Really in the design brief focusing on durability and Repairability I think the you know really important aspect of this it's sort of like AOL right when AOL started People didn't know how to use the internet. They made it easy for people to use it Microsoft as well with with software And really this is taking the fear factor away out of playing with your stuff If you're not I'm the only non-engineer on our panel. So I had a fear factor myself Noodling with with electronics, but once someone shows you and and you understand it It takes that fear factor away, and you're more likely to open it up and and repair yourself Thank you gentlemen So now I'm gonna turn it out over here and see kind of what kind of conversations or questions are percolating out out there One thing I'm curious about is 3d printing and the role that 3d printing will pray both positively and negatively in the future I would say it's gonna play a larger and larger role. Absolutely Herman Miller We don't have 3d printers in our manufacturing operations today However, a number of our competitors do and are investing very heavily in those so when you think about You know we as a manufacturer are more of a an assembler of furniture So we have other people that are injection molding creating the parts we get all those parts We put them together if you think about you know, we design those parts We send them to a manufacturer They then make that part send it back to us. That's what they do better than we do With 3d printing we can maybe keep those designs in-house and print those parts right away whether that's for models that we want to test or Just to actually produce those parts right in-house. So I think as the 3d printing technology Starts to gain some more maturity. You're gonna see that really take off in addition to you know Can you build a chair from the ground up? From a 3d printer based on a really good design that's gonna last a long time And I definitely see that occurring as well some of that local and regional Manufacturing from these 3d print shops. So I haven't had much experience with that But I can absolutely see that that's the direction that we're moving in and I would add that 3d printing I believe is a tool in a massive shift since the industrial revolution that was very much about interchangeability and economies of scale and production From that economy over to an economy of intellectual property and design and the 3d printing will be a tool to continue to enable that shift Where more money we made in intellectual property with a tool like 3d printing to be able to on this spot Create a new part to repair something or the the design behind it And I'll just weigh in slightly and just say that especially as we're thinking about the durability of goods and 3d printing is of Course a very new field, but one of the things that we need to keep in mind is the toxicity of the materials that we're using And that most 3d printing is exclusively plastic And there are complications with lead not to mention plastic as a problematic material for a number of reasons But just as we're thinking about you know the durability of goods One of the most important things for me if you're gonna be passing something on for generations is to make sure that It's healthy and safe for the people who are using it and making it Yeah, we didn't really touch on that too much But certainly a big issue if you think about right now the state of California changed their flame retardancy law So the toxic flame retardants that have been in all of your couches and chairs and anything with a cushion on it And we think about those as durable goods and now they've got these toxic chemicals in them that are carcinogenic And we don't want to expose our children to them. How do you deal with these disposable goods? That everybody now has and nobody wants to pass on to anyone because of what's included in them So the upfront thinking of what we put into those durable goods makes a big difference Great. It looked like there's a question over there and then a question over there Just jumping on that same general topic What are kind of the scientific innovations that you guys might have had exposure to in your fields that would be able to replace some of that Default plastic toxic manufacturing what what's happening in terms of science that's beyond the 3d printer But connected to that type of new thinking that's healthier for the environment, whether it's because it's compostable biodegradable or other kind of new innovations around science and technology in terms of life cycle great there there's definitely innovation going on Specifically around chemicals of concern and how to get those out of the product the problem is if you think about the BPA issue so busy phenol a in these plastic water bottles Was a big deal and so they switched to non BPA plastic, which was actually BPS plastic So probably the same issue but not safety tested like BPA was So sometimes there's a trade-off issue that you may not be trading off to the right thing for a number of reasons So there are more and more bio-based solutions coming online You know in my opinion if you're gonna take this fossil fuel out of the ground Probably putting it into a durable good that's gonna get used over and over as a good use of it rather than a disposable Good or burning it in a second for fuel But taking you know there are tons of biobased plastics coming out of the market and It's my opinion and I wouldn't say it's necessarily my company's opinion But it's my opinion that if you take biomass from the earth and lock it up into a plastic That's gonna last for millions of years You've now lost that Plant material that would become food for the next crop of plant and now you have to create Synthetic fertilizers to replace that biomass that you took away I'm not a fan of taking biomaterial and lock it up in plastics unless it's biodegradable within one year So that it gets re reused as plant food again So there's there's lots of innovations. I'm not sure how we'll take advantage of some of those innovations But there's certainly things around replacing toxic flame retardants replacing Firmeldehyde Resins in wood furniture and all the products that we use in buildings. There's lots of innovation around that The scale is the big part so the my advice to everyone is if there's something that you're interested in that you want You have to ask the manufacturer and let them know what it is you want and are demanding Then they have a business case to go out and do it So right now if I wanted to create all my products without urea firmeldehyde it would be very expensive And that's because there's very few Mills around the world that are creating the product and there's not enough product for me to pull To use because there's not enough demand and the price therefore is very high The more people that are asking for these things the easier it is to make the business case and go out and get those materials Just to comment really quickly on that is point so works taking place at the supplier level With chemicals like N hexane you've probably followed some of the story and manufacturing environments which are directly linked to production and productivity right so You know late-stage ramp-up stages wiping glass and a very fast manner quick dry But awful health impacts for for workers. So You know, we're clear with our production partners that you know, we we embrace slow production And that's a reality. Maybe we can say that because we are so small right now But we believe in that and we have to make other tough decisions when There's holidays and New Year's that we don't want people working Over those over those time periods for example, and you know, luckily Our followers as well as our consumers are willing to wait You know a few extra days for that product. So There is some work on recycled plastics. We do have recycled plastic in this and the first phone Would like to do more but Because of the technological nature of the product itself Some things are very difficult to change But I know there's a strong movement out there. It's been growing a lot of different questions are being asked of the industry So hopefully we'll see more innovations on the market and as you say As as people make more requests for this type and in larger companies make more requests for these types of products They'll be available for use, but it's going to take, you know development time and so forth to do so Great, did you have a question over there? Hi, I love the panel. Thank you for contributing I've got a background in LCA and software analytics for for supply chain for manufacturers and In 2007 there was lots and lots of talk about carbon footprinting and everybody was sort of on that bandwagon And then I actually really haven't heard I don't think anybody talk about carbon footprinting and Do do in today are any of your customers asking about that and is it part of your messaging? Are you it seems like it's gotten to be a bad word since we know there's not going to be a carbon tax Anytime in the next couple decades. So where is carbon footprinting and that sort of Environmental spin come up in your messaging and your business models and how you think about things I know it's quite different between the three of you, but I'm interested So you're absolutely correct. I started with the company in 2007 And my first job was to figure out how to do the carbon footprint of all of our products So we have we were getting requests all over the place 2007 2008 And then that went away with the government legislation that was pending that got killed during the downturn of the economy We and the majority of our close competitors continue to do life cycle assessment and and calculate carbon footprint for all of our products and use that in our design so we certainly have rebuilt our Environmental design process to include a carbon footprint component as well as a eutrophication component if you're familiar with LCA Which is has to do with water quality and we've now built that in so we have a criteria within our design process That is a stage gate go-no-go and part of that looks at the carbon footprint of the product We use that in terms of The carbon footprint is a really good proxy for how much energy is used in the manufacturer of the product and a number of other Environmental impacts so the lower the carbon footprint the less energy the less environmental impact of the total product and We've we've selected in furniture We don't use energy during the life cycle of that furniture and so material selection is is key So we've used that in helping our designers and engineers select lower carbon footprint materials To the question of are our customers asking anymore? I would say no Some of them are still asking for life cycle assessments. Do they know what to do with that data? No The shift has really changed the chemicals of concern Tell me if you have these chemicals of concern in your product or here are the five chemicals of concern that are important to us And we will not buy product with those chemicals. That's the big shift that I've seen since 2007 It is well compliance, but chemicals of concern So urea from aldehyde and these toxic flame retardants PVC don't necessarily have Regulations behind them, but they're concerning to our customers for various reasons From you know, I mean I've I've I've had experience in very different roles over that period of time But I would say in the mid-2000s just in my experience There was a massive corporate move with Walmart with eco imagination with many and there was kind of a there was a large I Think there was a shift where sustainability was seen not just as As compliance oriented, but actually a strategic Commerce or business move where people many more people a massive business to be it moved into the boardroom It became something that was a minimum to have in the boardroom and a strategic conversation I believe that right now has that's still going on, but it is not new news anymore I don't think that there's been news on top of that and I would argue that the next shift that will happen over the next several years Isn't just the footprint or the adhesives in a durable like or even a pair of shoes It's it's going to take it to the next level, which is where models like the sharing economy and other models Will actually be I think the next interesting step for corporations and leadership We're gonna go ahead and wrap up, but thank you guys so much for joining us this morning And I hope you all have wonderful Fridays


I want to talk about Shawshank Redemption. So I got to see Shawshank. Thank you, Nicolas Navarro. Thank you for the contribution. I saw Shawshank Redemption again last night in preparation for doing the show today. As I said, Dave Goodman paid me $500 to do it. And I have to say, after watching it, again, maybe the third or fourth time in my life that I've seen and saw when it first came out, that the Shawshank Redemption, I think, based on my knowledge of movies, Shawshank Redemption is a really good movie. And it's really good in many, many, many dimensions. Indeed, I would argue that Shawshank Redemption is one of the best movies made in the last 40 years. It's a movie. If you haven't seen it, I'd say definitely go watch it. You know, I think it's supremely enjoyable. It's a movie that was made in 1994. So for many of you, it's like a classic from a long time ago, a classic. But this is a terrific movie in every aspect. It's beautifully acted, just beautifully. I mean, it's Tim Robbins by far. Tim Robbins plays the main character. Tim Robbins by far best performance. But I also think it's Morgan Friedman's best performance. Morgan Friedman is excellent in it. You know, the acting is superb. I think in every aspect of the movie making way, the cinematography is beautiful and amazing. The things that the cinematographer chooses to focus on versus things that it doesn't focus on, the way it lays out the prison, the way it creates that claustrophobic sense of what's going on there, the things that it chooses to show you and the things that it chooses not to show you, for example, it doesn't choose to show you the extreme horrific violence that is involved in the movie. You don't need to see it, including sexual violence. You don't need to see it. But it's there and it's got a presence. It's got this mechanism of narration that doesn't always work in many movies doesn't because it kind of distances you from what's going on. I think it shows your redemption. It actually works really, really well. I think it lays out the story. It gives you the highlights. It gives you the things that you need to know in order to understand what's going, what's happening, what's going on. And it gives you an intimate connection with the character of Morgan Friedman who is doing the narration. You get to learn about him as much as you get to learn about the plot. You get to learn about his character and what kind of person he is. And that is all good. It's a movie that manages to handle some difficult topics, topics that have to do with redemption, topics that have to do with criminals. These are criminals with exception of the lead character. Everybody in the movie is a criminal. They're all murderers, most of them are murderers. Not all of them. Morgan Friedman. We never know what exactly crime he committed, but it sounds like he murdered somebody. And it is a movie about redemption and about rehabilitating oneself and what that means. And I think it's quite effective in doing that. It also, I think, deeply psychologically interesting movie in the sense of the kind of psychology of developing prison and how difficult it is for prisoners to leave prison and how they associate their life with prison and they can't tolerate life outside. I think that was really interesting and I think, again, important for all of this, for the theme of the movie. But the most interesting thing about the movie is its lead character, Tim Robbins, who plays Andy Dupri. It's set in Massachusetts. Andy Dupri is falsely accused of murdering his wife and her lover. It's not a crazy accusation. There's lots of evidence to suggest that he actually did it. But I think we all, as viewers know from the beginning, that he did not. We don't know who did at the beginning, but we know it wasn't him. Again, even that feature of it is that when the discovery about who is the murderer comes through, it's a very clever, I think, plot twist, plot device that is used. Andy Dupri is a banker. One of the few positive, not just positive, heroic portrayals of a banker ever in all of moviemaking, just that would get Shawshank Redemption high on my list of favorite movies.  And one of the themes of the movie, and ultimately the theme of the movie, is that, if you will, redemption, success, and even hope, and hope is this mixed term, even hope because hope requires reason, requires thinking, requires using your mind, requires engagement, thinking, focus. And the beautiful thing about this movie, which is so rare in movies, particularly prison movies, is just the way in which Andy Dupri survives prison and ultimately gets out of prison. I'm going to try not to give too many spoilers. It's out of prison. Through the use of his own mind. You know, he's in a real, for a variety of reasons, he's in a really bad situation in his prison. Things are not going well for him. But there's a scene in which he overhears one of the gods talking about a tax thing that he has. And he basically goes up to God and says, I can solve this for you. I mean, the God almost kills him because how did he talk to him? But he basically provides a solution for this God's tax problem, which then turns his whole life around in prison because he becomes a tax advisor to all the prison gods and he starts doing the fraudulent accounting of the prison warden and his relationship to all of that changes dramatically. And yet, even when he's doing that, even when he's writing high, even when it seems like he's got a lot to lose, the thing I love about Andy Duprey, not just the fact that he's using his mind, using his reason, is that he never loses his love of life. Here's another lesson for all of you. Never loses his love of life. Never loses his love of beauty. My favorite scene in Shorshakh Redemption, my favorite scene in Shorshakh Redemption since Chills Down, is Andy Duprey is just he's running the library. That's one of the better jobs that he's gotten because he's helping out the gods and the warden with all this money stuff. But he gets a batch of new records for the library. And he's playing around with the records. He's looking at the records. And he takes out a record of Mozart's, oh God, what was it? Anyway, one of Mozart's operas. And he puts it on the record player in the office. And the god has gone to the bathroom. He locks the god in the bathroom. And he turns it on. He turns it on. And he starts, marriage a figaro. Thank you, Thomas. He turns it on. And he starts listening to it. And wow, he's having a good time. He's enjoying it. And the god in the bathroom starts hearing this. He goes, he starts yelling, what's going on there? And then Andy, to pray, has this great idea. He takes the microphone that projects into all of the cells and all of the prison. And he turns it on. And he starts transmitting this aria. Sui aria, it's a duet, two female voices from the marriage a figaro, into the prison. And everybody stops. I mean, I'm getting goosebumps just telling you about it. Everybody stops. All these hardened criminals stop. Beauty, beauty in its most, in a sense, most abstract form, but most immediately emotional form is projected into their lives. And Andy, to pray, the warden now has come. Everybody wants him to turn this off. He's going to get into massive problems of this. He's going to be beaten up. He's going to be sent into isolation. It's all worth it for this moment of beauty. It's all worth it to feel alive, to feel free, and to share that moment with all these other people.  It's just a few minutes. But it's just so stunning in its emotional impact on you, the viewer, on the emotional impact it's having on the prisoners. And so it's an amazing, amazing scene. And it's truly beautiful.  The best line in the movie, the best line in the movie which I think, in a sense, captures the whole movie, is the line, let's see if I get it right, because I have to get it right, right? Maybe some of you will correct me if I get it wrong. Get busy living or get busy dying. In a sense, that's the only alternative in life. This could be a, are you wrongs, rules for life. Get busy living or get busy dying. That is the only alternative in life. If you're not busy living, if you're not busy living, which means acting, which means doing, which means thinking, which means focusing on your life to make it better in every aspect possible available to you, if you're not doing that, then basically you're getting busy dying.  Pursue values. And that's the thing about this movie. In every point of this movie, Andy Dupre is pursuing values. And it turns out that every point in this story, Andy Dupre is pursuing his freedom, because freedom is a value. This movie is about the pursuit of values in every dimension. And in many respects, what he's teaching, the Morgan Friedman character, and the redemption is really not Andy Dupre's. The redemption is the Morgan Freedom's redemption. And in a sense, anybody that Andy Dupre touches in the movie, he's teaching them to be valueers. There's a young kid who comes in, a little thug who keeps getting caught stealing stuff. Andy Dupre at some point says, you know, you're not very good at the stuff. You can be caught, you might want to think about doing something else with your life. But the point is, he teaches the kids to value his life. He gets enrolled and pursue a, what do you call it, a high school degree. Morgan Friedman goes from just, in a sense, accepting his lot, living his life, to starting to think as a valuer. So the redemption as everybody else is not, Andy Dupre, Andy Dupre never needed redemption. Andy Dupre facilitates everybody else's redemption by teaching them to value, by teaching them to get busy living, get busy living. And in that sense, it's such a powerful good movie with good values. How rare is that? With a fantastic hero, there's nothing wrong with Andy Dupre. I mean, he clearly makes a mistake early on in the movie, but morally, this guy is perfect. He's rational, he's willing to fight for his values. His hope doesn't come from empty hope because hope can be something completely empty. His hope doesn't come from emptiness. His hope comes from his values, from the fact that he knows how to achieve them. His hope comes from his constant busyness around living. He is busy living. So I think the movie's excellent. I loved it. I think everybody should watch it. I think it will inspire you. I mean, if you don't have the biggest smile ever on your face when it's over and that, I guess I'm giving away a little bit, but that's okay, then I don't know what's wrong with you. I mean, I love Andy Dupre. I love Morgan Friedman.  Is this gonna be one of those dark prison movies? Is gonna end in tragedy? Is it all gonna be horrible?  The warden is evil. Evil is evil. Good is good. How much better does it get than that? Evil is evil and good is good. So go see. You can rent it on Prime. You can rent it on Apple TV. You can get it on anywhere you want. It's easy to watch and it is a truly, truly fantastic movie and fun to watch. Don't you miss movies that are fun to watch?  Here's a movie that's well written, well produced, well directed. The music is terrific. I don't know who wrote the music but the music is terrific. Oh, based by the way on a Stephen King novel, a short story actually, short novel by Stephen King. Stephen King's a great storyteller. Director is Frank Darabont. I think this is the best movie he made but he did do some Indiana Jones movies and other popular movies but this is I think the movie he made. It's in every respect of the movie making profession I think this is well done, well made. It stands the test of time. What is it? 28 years ago was made. The fact that I'm telling you the word in is bad is not a spoiler. The fact that he's corrupt I don't think is a spoiler. No, I don't think any of those are spoilers.  That's the only spoiler I think but I'm not gonna tell you what the rest is. So I encourage you to watch this movie. Really encourage you. I think of all the movies I've reviewed this is, well, I mean, this is the most enjoyable of all of them and probably in many respects the best as a whole. It just stands as a whole. Just a good integrated work of art. Thank you for listening or watching the Iran book show. If you'd like to support the show, we make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me. You get value from listening. You get value from watching. Show your appreciation. You can do that by going to iranbookshow.com slash support.  Also, if you'd like to see the Iran book show grow, please consider sharing our content and of course, subscribe. Press that little bell button right down there on YouTube so that you get an announcement when we go live. And for those of you who are already subscribers and those of you who are already supporters of the show, thank you. I very much appreciate it.


The quality of information produced by the statistics department is dependent on us playing our part in providing the necessary data. I agree. The statistics department won't be able to produce good quality data unless we all play our part. All right. I agree we all should cooperate and respond truthfully. Let us all play our part. Better data for better lives. Never let it go. Let it go. Let it go.


Welcome to the next talk. We're going to have Philip Jones talking about ASDI, the Synchron Server Gateway Interface. So please give him a nice round of applause. Thank you. Is this on? Can you hear me? So I'm going to introduce ASCII today, the asynchronous survey gateway interface. But just to get an idea, how many people already know what ASCII is? Oh, there's a few. Good. So hopefully by the end of this talk, you'll have a very good idea of what ASCII is if it's a good talk. And yeah. But before I get into that, just a little about me. If you want to follow along with the slides locally, you can find them on PGJones.dev. You can also find me as PGJones on GitHub and Medium. It's slightly more complicated on Twitter. There's an extra D. Somebody else had the name. But there we are. So I'm going to introduce ASCII. But to do that, I'm going to step back and introduce Whiskey. I suspect most of the people in this room know what Whiskey is. But if you don't, and you've done any web stuff in Python, you almost certainly used it. I'll explain what it is if you don't know. But to go back to when Whiskey was introduced in 2003, quite a time ago now, there was quite an ecosystem of Python web servers already, such as Zope, QXE, WebWare, et cetera. Now, one of the issues at the time was that these frameworks differ in their API and their functionality. But they're all very distinct. You couldn't take parts of Twisted and use it with Zope, at least as I understood at the time. So you've got to make a choice. You've got to use one or the other. And this feeds directly into the motivation for Whiskey at the time, which I'll just read out because I figure summarizes it very succinctly, which is Python currently boasts a wide variety of web application frameworks, such as Zope, QXE, Skunkweb, PSO, and Twisted Web, if I've pronounced them all right. This wide variety of choices can be a problem for new Python users, because generally speaking, their choice of web framework will limit their choice of usable web servers and vice versa. And so this was seen in 2003. And the PEP-333, if you want to read it, came about to introduce Whiskey. And what Whiskey is is a standard interface that allows you to separate the server code, which is mostly about passing and understanding the HP, sending at that time, from the application code, which is mostly about how you kind of route and couple your business logic into your web server. And Whiskey, which stands for the web server gateway interface, is quite simple in principle. What you have to do is your application is define it as a callable that takes two arguments. The first argument, environment, describes the request and the environment that they serve or the framework's running in. And the second argument, start response is a callable, which you call to start the response, in this case, with the status and some headers. And then you return or yield the body. So it's quite simply defined. And that allowed the servers, which again is mostly about passing and understanding the HPP, to be separated from the framework, which is more about the API and how it's used. So I think it's fair to say that Whiskey has been a really great success for Python. There's a lot of Whiskey frameworks. They differ in terms of whether you want to go full batches included like Django or something very minimal like Flask or Bottle and everything in between.  And just as a note here, because Whiskey sounds a lot like Whiskey, a lot of them are named after receptacles like Bottle and Flask and Falcon, et cetera. So that's not the only server I realized recently. On the other side is the Whiskey servers. I think there are less of these because it's more defined. It's more constrained by the protocols. But there are three big ones. I know I have Geunicorn, You Whiskey, and Apache. I think the main kind of feature you'd go for here is how they manage concurrency. That's what you're going to really care about when choosing these. But again, it's given users of and the Python ecosystem a lot of choice, which is the great thing about Whiskey. So over the roughly 15 years, maybe that Whiskey's been about, it started to show its age. And I think this is mostly because of changes in the kind of web systems around it rather than Whiskey itself. So of the limitations, the first one I'll mention is that it has no official way to deal with web sockets. In fact, as you saw, that callable is a request response cycle. It expects you to return a response and be done. Whereas, of course, with web sockets, that connection is going to stay open.  Now, there is an unofficial workaround, which is almost a wrapper around the socket, but it depends, again, on what concurrency framework you're using. So it's not standardized. For the same reason, it doesn't really say much about HB2 in terms of concurrency. You can use HB2. It's just a request response cycle. But you've got to decide on top of it how you're going to make it concurrent because HB2 is concurrent. You can't get away from it. Carrying on, you can't use the Async and Awake keywords. They've only recently been introduced. I think this is more the fact that Async code and Sync code doesn't really work well together, but you can't really use it with Whiskey servers because the event loops, if you have them, fight each other. And finally, I haven't mentioned it here, but the request body, you may want to stream it into your server. So you might want to get it in chunks. And there's some support for that coming in Whiskey, but generally speaking, the Whiskey standard is defined that you get the whole body and then you pass it into the callable in the environment. So the server's got to have it all before it can call the application. So these limitations, I think, of what started to motivate Async web frameworks, which has been quite an explosion of in the last few years. And I think the first one that came about was AHTP, which I've shown a lot of example here. So you can see it meets a lot of these desires, these limitations. First, you can use the Async and Awake keywords. You can Awake the DB call. You can see there. Secondly, although it's not shown here, it does do web sockets as well. You can stream the request body. And although AHTP didn't say anything about HTTP too, it may do in the future. And some of the frameworks and servers I'm going to talk about in a minute do. So looking at where we are today, I would say it's quite similar to where we were or where the community was in 2003. There's quite a few Async frameworks. And these logos are AHTP, Blacksheep, Sanec, Japronto and Vibora. So some of them, I don't think Japronto or Vibora maintained anymore. But all of these have kind of made a name in the ecosystem, mostly because in these cases, just how better performance they provide, which I'll come to later. But that's kind of what's made people excited alongside these features. But especially for these frameworks, because you can't use them together, you can't mix and match, I think they make for the perfect motivation for ASCII. And if I talk about original motivation for whiskey and change it very slightly and say that Python currently both survive a variety of Async web frameworks, such as AHTP, Sanec, Blacksheep, Japronto and Vibora, this variety of choices can be a problem for new Python users, because generally speaking, their choice of web framework will limit their choice of usable web servers and vice versa. I think this goes beyond just new Python users as well. I think this is a limitation to all of us. I think this is good motivation to want a new standard to come about that works in the asynchronous world. And that standard, I hope to convince you, should be ASCII. And ASCII stands for the asynchronous server gateway interface. I think it's so named to make the parallels to whiskey. And I'll try and, as we go into this, I'll try and say what my involvement is. It's been a small part. I'll try and say where my biases come through. But ASCII itself is again about defining your application as a callable. But in this case, it's a coroutine function. So it's async by default. And this time, the callable takes three arguments. The scope, which is very similar to the environment. It tells you about the connection in this case, because it's not necessarily just a HTTP request. And there's two extra callables that receive and ascend. So you, as an application, have to receive messages from the server and then send them back. And you can see, in this example, they're all asynchronous. So it all works in the concurrent framework. And the link there you can find in the slides will just go to, that's the specification as it's written out. So to give you an example of what it looks like, so the whiskey example I showed earlier would simply respond with a 200 response with a very short body that just says hello world to whatever request it got, as with this piece of code here. So the big differences are that you have to now check that it's a HTTP request, so you're not responding to a web socket, say, with a response, because it wouldn't make any sense. And then, much like with whiskey, you start by sending the response information, the status and the headers, so you start the response. And then you stream or send off the body. And in this case, it's just hello world. So it's quite simple. So this, I think, is roughly the same as the whiskey one you saw a few minutes ago. So I'm gonna go into more detail now about what whiskey is and all the different parts of it. Thanks. But just to give you an idea of the development of it, so whiskey came about through, I think, the Django's channel's development, which was, I think the ultimate aim of this is to make Django async. And the first version of whiskey separated the server and the application by process. It was quite complicated, and you can thankfully just ignore it. So if you do manage to find anything that references whiskey one, you can just forget about it. Then there was whiskey two, and whiskey three, which are very similar. They're roughly the same. It's just that whiskey three is a bit simpler and cleaned up, and I'm only gonna talk about whiskey three. But if you come across whiskey two, basically anything that supports whiskey three will probably support whiskey two at this time. So here we are. Okay, so I'm gonna go into a bit of detail to get you hopefully really know how our whiskey works. So the first thing that callable gets as an application is the scope. And the scope is telling you about the connection. And for a HP request, that's gonna tell you about the HP request. So every ASCII message has a type. So this type is HPP. It's gonna have a HP version. And then it's gonna define the request. So that's the method, the scheme, the path, the query string and the headers. And then a little bit about the connection itself, the client address and the server address, and then a bit about the environment, which is the root path. So this is what you get in the scope. And this is pretty much it. And it's very similar to the whiskey environment. So you as an application get sent this when a client connects to the server. Then you as an application are gonna wait for messages off the server to know what you want to do. So what you're likely to receive from the server to begin with is a message that says that there's a HP request body coming through. And in this case, to demonstrate streaming, the first message you get is just says hello, but then it's telling you there's more body expected. So you probably as an application gonna expect the next message to come from the server to be something similar until you've run out of body. In this case, you get the final part world and it tells you there's no more body coming. So now you as an application can start sending your response. So the first thing you're gonna send is the basic information about the response, the status and the headers. And then you'll stream out the body. In this case, because I've run out of slide space, it's just one message, which is just high. And so you send that off and then the client's gonna disconnect from the server most likely. And so you receive from the server when that's happened to disconnect message. And for HP message, this is basically all you need to get right for ASCII to have ASCII application run. So moving on to WebSuckets. So it's all asynchronous. Like I said earlier, it supports HPT and WebSuckets. So with a WebSucket connection, the scope is a little bit different this time. First, it says it's a WebSucket connection in the type. The connection information is similar. You get told the scheme, the path, query string and headers, but you also get told the sub-proticles, which matter for the connection. A little bit about the connection the client server addresses and then finally the root path. So again, when a client connects to the server, you get called with this scope.  And the first thing you need to do as a WebSucket is decide that you wanna accept that connection and turn it into a fully WebSucket connection. So you send this back to the server. So now it is a WebSucket connection. You perhaps will receive a bytes frame from the client through the server or maybe a text frame. So you could get both of these and you can send back any frame you want at any time as well. And then again, much like with HPT, you've gotta decide when you wanna close the connection. So you can send a close back and then once it's closed, you get told that it's the client's disconnected from the server. So again, this is roughly all you need for ASCII application. So there's one more part of ASCII that matters as a kind of protocol stage. And this is the part where I start to have been more involved in ASCII. So this is more of my bias. But one of the issues I found with Whiskey is you can't really decide that you need to prepare something before the server should start receiving requests. So a good example of this is if you're gonna connect to a database, you probably wanna create a connection pool and create that before you receive a single request. Otherwise it's just gonna add latency to that very first request. If you use Flask, you probably already get this with the before first request. So the ASCII lifespan protocol allows the server to send to you that it's ready, so it sends you a lifespan startup and you as an application set up and you send back to the server that you're ready when you say startup completes. And from that point on, the server can start accepting connections. So if you've got, say, a load balance set of servers, you could just roll them over easier. Equally, when you're shutting down gracefully, there's the opposite on shutdown. So that's lifespan. Then there are two extensions to ASCII, both of which I've been quite involved with. The first of which is server push. So for HTTP two connections, you can decide as a server if you wanna push a response to the client before the client asks for it. You often wanna do this when you know the client's gonna request a good example being if the client's requested a HTML file, they're probably gonna ask for the CSS and JavaScript next to send it to the client before they ask and save a bit of latency. So that's a server push. So as an application, you simply look for the scope and look to see if it's got an extension that says it allows server push. And then you can send this message to the server's egg, server push this to the client. The next extension is to be able to send a different response when a WebSocket connection request is made. So when WebSockets are kind of made or the connections are attempted, it starts with a HTTP message that asks for an upgrade. Now most libraries will allow you to accept that message or just close the connection if you don't want to. So what this extension allows you to do is instead say, I wanna reject the upgrade but with this particular message, so you could be a bit more informative, maybe say that they don't have the right credentials or that the request is badly formed or something like that. So again, you just need to look in the extensions and if you're wondering about the empty dictionary, that's just so there's extra options, it's not a typo. But so you look for this extension and then you can send messages back to the server like you would for a HTTP message, only they're prefixed now with WebSocket. So it's exactly the same, you just send back a HTTP response. So that in a bit of a rush is pretty much the whole ASCII spec and you can go read the details for the exact but that's pretty much all of it. So much like Whiskey, I think this is starting to have a really good effect on the community. Like there are a lot of ASCII frameworks starting to exist now. So just to name a few, there's Quart, FastAPI, Responder, Starlet and Django Channels. I think Django itself is becoming a sick. I know a bit less than this, but it looks like it probably will. My bias here is I work on Quart. So Quart's very Flaslike as are most of these. So in terms of the ASCII features I've just talked about, there's a strong bias here because the extensions are my interests, so I've written them. But basically all of them work for the basic ASCII spec. So you can go use any of these with the ASCII servers and you'll have a good time. Looking at the ASCII servers, as far as I know there's currently four or four main ones. So there's Hypercorn, Uvicorn, Daphne and Mangun. Again, I've got a bias here because I write Hypercorn. But in terms of the others, so Mangun is a serverless one if you're interested in that. I think Daphne is very popular in the Django community. Uvicorn's the most performant and my bias is I would say Hypercorn has the most features. But again, the features only I'm really interested in, so there we are. But in terms of these features, there's support for HB2 in Hypercorn and Daphne. You could do HB2 web sockets in Hypercorn, which I don't think you could do elsewhere. And then the server push and HB web socket responses as well. So those are the features that I'm interested in, I really would ask you, but most people are actually more interested in the kind of performance. Indeed, for the ASCII frameworks and the Async frameworks in general, this has been one of the kind of most exciting things that seems for the community. So to say a little about that, if we look at the last tech in power, at least I think this is the last tech in power, if we look at the top 10 Python ones, six of those are ASCII based, it did the top two are ASCII. Two more are Async and it's only Tornado and Bottle that are whiskey. So I think ASCII's made quite a name for itself here and whiskey as well. So hopefully you've got a very good idea about what ASCII is and hopefully I've convinced you that it's the right standard for the community to adopt. I think I might have time for questions. Cool. So if you have anything to ask him? I was just wondering with this new system because I'm used to Flask, but I never used any of this. Are we able to use less JavaScript now because the interaction that we have to build with JavaScript with things going back and forth with the reactive applications, is it possible to do some of the stuff on the server now? I'm thinking like what live view is doing with Dalix here? So I'm not quite sure that it is, but maybe if there was an issue with web sockets, which was easier to do in JavaScript, yeah, it's quite easy to do in Python now. So that might mean less JavaScript for you. Any more questions? Have you heard anything from Sanic about implementing ASGI 3, I guess, would be the right question today? Yeah, so they've been working on it. I'm told today from Tom, who I can't see that, oh, hi Tom, they're actually quite close. So I think they'll be an ASCII framework and maybe an ASCII server soon. Any more questions? So that was a very interesting overview. Thank you very much. What do you think still needs kind of work? Where are the areas of the ASCII spec or the implementations that are most in need of, most of the need of improvement at the moment? I think it's actually had quite a bit of development now, so I think it's in quite a good shape. There's nothing that just brings to my mind, I was speaking to Tom about it earlier, I don't think there's anything that springs to his mind either, so I think it's in a very good shape now. Any other questions? Okay, then we're going up. Thank you once another question. Oh, this is a silly question. Do I detect the influence of Swift on Security in your naming of your ASCII server, HyperCorn? No, I don't actually know what Swift on Security is. I saw a pun that wasn't there. So I use the HyperSanzio libraries mostly for it and then I've tried to keep the interfaces similar as I can to Junicorn, so that's where the name comes from. That's great, that is. Thanks for the talk, really interesting. So this wouldn't be a drop in replacement if you needed a new framework. So let's say my particular stack, Nginx, UISG, Python, Flask server, it would be a new framework and ASG and then Nginx is HTTP2, so that could be a production stack, that kind of thing, or? Yeah, I think this is more an issue we're trying to build synchronous and asynchronous code together. I don't think it's really possible, so I think you have to choose to be async. Yeah, so that was my aim with Quartz. So Quartz is the Flask API, we implemented the async await to make it easier, but most of them are very similar to Flask, so if you were to move to, say, Starlet, it'd be quite a pleasant and easy experience for you. We have time for one more question, maybe? Hey, I have a very simple question. So when it comes to the WSGI spec, it's very easy to remember PEP triple three and then quadruple three. Is there a PEP for ASGI? There isn't. There's been talk about writing one. I don't think it's progressed much recently, but I hope it will become a PEP, but we shall see. You can just search for it as ASGI or ASGI ref and you should find it. There's a, I think I showed, so you can also take that link if you'd like. Anything else? We'll have one more minute? No. Let's give our speaker a nice warm applause, please. Thank you.


Let me address recent unfounded attacks on the professionalism of the FBI and Justice Department agents and prosecutors I will not stand by silently when their integrity is unfairly attacked Oh, yeah, the FBI has so much integrity it is definitely above criticism except for the time They planned and executed a fake kidnapping plot on Gretchen Whitmer or when they lied to courts in order to get Faisal warrant so they could spy on the Trump campaign or remember that time the FBI got a tip about the Pulse nightclub shooter But James Comey the FBI director wouldn't arrest him because his father wasn't informant or how about the time FBI director Ray covered up a Democrat domestic terrorist attack on Republican senators by calling it suicide by cop or how about the time They used actual Russian disinformation in the form of the steel dossier to try and overturn the 2016 election Or how about the time FBI director James Comey lied under oath or FBI field director Andrew McCabe Or most recently the FBI whistleblowers who are claiming the FBI actively worked to cover up Hunter Bynes crimes to protect Joe Biden


Hi everyone, Sean with jaspyscasebreaks.com here doing 2020 Panini black hobby football one box break random team number six We're at the end. We're giving away 10 spots in 2019 NT football first off the line one box break coming up next on top of that So the break itself 32 spots everyone gets a random team in the one box break at the end We're gonna randomize top 10 names get a spot in the NT first off the line one box break coming up afterwards Only 10 spots, but spots 11 12 13 and 14 since we filled the break tonight and pushed it through Each get $25 of break credit each so $100 and break credit given away total 11 12 13 and 14 25 dollars each so as a little consolation for being the first ones to miss the spots Here is our customer list from Matt Down to Johnny Ho last spot mojo and our teams from the Washington football team back up to the Arizona Cardinals Dice rolled randomized both lists and pair them together a five and a five ten times 10th and final time from Ray down to Johnny and We'll do another randomizer at the end of the break where we give away those spots And now ten times on the teams 10th and final time Eagles Down to the Bengals So no trade window, but we'll go through this I'm gonna read through every single one of them We'll get them all on camera, and then we'll do some highlights just to show for example like Johnny Ho here with the Bengals chances at Joe burrow Miami Dolphins Carlos Katnack chances at Toa Chargers Joseph falsetti chances at Justin Herbert. So there you go. So let's print this out and Rip the box and then give away those spots So there's our box two autos one relic and a base and a parallel We put some really nice stuff out of this Excited to see what we can do. Here's our final list first up Jason Huntley for the Detroit Lions Franklin Mackenzie out of 25 Russell Wilson CLC Hawks Matt Arnold Non-numbered base Kj. Hamler relic 22 out of 125 Denver Broncos Carlos Katnack Jonathan Taylor two-color patch and silver ink auto 166 out of 199 Indianapolis Colts Ray Murray You go Ray very nice. I like his future in And our final auto Lynn Bowden Jr. 143 out of 199 going to the Las Vegas Raiders and Franklin Mackenzie. He's now currently on the Dolphins As a Chargers fan, I always hope that the moves like that will go against the Raiders So got hope Still have hope So let's give away those spots. Good luck everybody So here's our original customer list from Matt Arnold down to Johnny Ho last spot mojo new dice roll Remember top 10 get spots in the first offline break after five and a three eight spots 11 12 13 and 14 $25 and break credit everybody else. Thank you guys very much for getting in on it. Hopefully I can do better for you next time So eight times on the randomizer eighth and final time So from spots 15 to 32. Thank you guys very much for getting in on this Sorry, I didn't do better for you this time But spots 14 Johnny Ho Matt Arnold Franklin Mackenzie and Ray Murray you guys are gonna get $25 and break credit and congratulations to Joseph falsetti Matt Medlin Franklin Mackenzie Ray Murray Ray Murray Ray Murray Ray Murray Mark Nation Raymond de Jesus and Matt Arnold you tend have spots in the first off the line Nt football from 2019 break that's coming up next That was 2020 penini black hobby football one box break random team number six Jasper's case breaks calm. I'm Sean. Thanks for hanging out. I'll see you next time


Hi, my name is Rob Wynn. My medium is grabbing things out of life, poetic ideas and references to art and literature using idiosyncratic weird materials and trying to turn them into my own particular vision of what I think they mean. Where do I draw inspiration from? You know, I actually don't draw inspiration from any one particular source. I think I came to being an artist in an era where the actual making of the work was where you got inspired, the actual doing of it. So it's like one thing, Max Ernst always said never leave something unfinished in your studio, always leave the end of something there so you can pick it up and start again. So I think inspiration is a little overrated and in fact it comes from thinking about and activating and doing your work. The inspiration comes out of your work. Why did I choose my medium? Because I was always curious about finding materials that weren't necessarily associated with fine art. So I started using string and embroidery and smoke and then when I was able to pick up a ladle of glass I really something clicked and it was a wonderful material to use. Do I have any creative rituals? I wish I did. I wish I had some magic thing that I could turn to to get started with my work. The short answer is no. The bigger answer is yes. The whole experience of my life and my relationships inform how I ritualize the activity of making my work but not one thing. How does living in New York inspire my practice? Well I don't think it does particularly. I feel like a sort of deranged editorial bird flying over the landscape before I am picking up things that I over here are appropriating imagery and text so it happens anywhere. I wouldn't say that it particularly even though I'm born in New York and I am in New York I don't really feel it has very much impact on my work per se. I think the great opportunity about being able to do the activation at the Brooklyn Museum was that as a student having gone to Pratt the Brooklyn Museum was kind of my spiritual home. So in order enabled being able to interact with the collection of the Americas was really fantastic experience and to kind of do research into the individual pieces that I chose to interact with was a really great gift for me as an artist and it was a great opportunity.