Tesla's most radical idea came about at the turn of the 20th century. He aimed to create a world wireless system, which would be capable of dispersing energy to anywhere in the world.


There was this husband and wife that had a fight and if you get married you will know that one of the things that you use as a husband and wife to get back at your spouse is a silent treatment. The single is you don't know what I'm talking about but those of you who are married you know what exactly. The silent treatment is when you are offended at one another and you don't want to talk about it and you give them a cold shoulder. So they decided to keep this silent treatment they lasted for the whole day and the next day the husband needed to go to the airport at five in the morning not wanting to break the silent treatment he wrote a note saying please wake me up at four o'clock and left it by her bedside so of course he misses the flight he wakes up at seven a.m. comes to his wife breaks the silent treatment and says why didn't you wake me up at four o'clock like I asked you she says I did he says look at your bedside he looks and there's a note says please wake up these I'm just giving marriage tips we give you tips about that and I'm giving you marriage tips also if you have your Bible let's go together we'll read one verse numbers chapter 14 and verse 24 numbers 14 and verse 24 but my servant Caleb because he has a different spirit in him has followed me fully I will bring into the land where he went go back please I will bring into the land which he went into I want to speak to you this evening on a topic a different spirit there is God's holy spirit there is demonic spirits and there is also human spirit you and I are a spirit we have a soul and we live in the body when God created us he went into the dirt and he put his hands created our body and then when our body was created God breathed into our body a breath word spirit in Hebrew is raw or a wind or breath so God breathes his spirit into our body and the Bible says men became a living soul your soul and your spirit are so mysteriously intertwined that there's they're actually kind of together though they're separate the Bible says the word of God separates the soul in the spirit but in reality they're together and many times the Bible refers to your soul and your spirit as a heart that's why when you see in the Bible many times a heart is refers to your soul and your spirit because they're almost like together when you die your spirit and your soul they depart from your body and that's what death is word death is separation death is not a funeral death is separation when we are separated so you and I have a spirit from God when we are not following Jesus Christ because a spirit is given to connect to God our soul is given to connect to humanity and our body is given to connect to the world the physical world when your spirit is not connected to God it's dead but when you come to Jesus Christ your spirit becomes alive your spirit becomes new there was a gentleman who came just recently to our church and he went through some very rough things and he was a religious person he read the Bible a few times and last Wednesday he gave his life to Jesus Christ and he was crying and weeping and after about 10 o'clock he calls his mom and says mom I have to tell you something God did something to me I'm alive I'm new and because she was kind of freaked out because he called it 10 o'clock and if you call your parents at 10 o'clock you know it's usually not because you are saved it's usually because you're in trouble so I talked to him and he said Vlad I'm alive I was like well it's obvious you are alive he says no not body alive spirit alive that's what happens when you get saved you become alive the part of you sometimes you don't even realize is dead becomes alive your spirit amen how many of you experienced that you know what I'm talking about so that is your spirit so your spirit came from God your spirit the Bible says is a lamp of the Lord means this is the place where God communicates to you this is your spirit is like your mailbox for God God doesn't dump or throw his messages in your backyard he doesn't throw it into your physical ears he throws it into your spirit your spirit is the connection point between you and God can somebody say amen your spirit can be developed the Bible says about John the Baptist is that John grew strong in the spirit so your spirit is it must be growing it must develop it shouldn't stay in the same place and one more truth I want you to write down is your spirit can endure sickness your spirit the Bible says it can sustain men in a sickness that means when your spirit is strong your spirit affects how your physical body operates many people can endure through enormous pain and can overcome and actually cancel pain by the strength of their spirit there's there are stories and I remember one story about about Roger Benningster and he was diagnosed with a terminal illness in England and he couldn't walk because of that illness and something happened is that not only he chose and said I will be able to walk he made a declaration to his doctor he said I will run he can't walk he's in a wheelchair but because a man's spirit is focused is strong it's unbeatable that mind is sharp he began to take those steps at first he fought he fell so many times he was so disappointed emotionally but mentally he was still strong until he managed to stand on his feet and barely walk he said I will run he started to push himself and run he started to run and this man was the first man in the history of the world to break a record of running a mile under four minutes you have to understand this record of running a mile under four minutes was declared by medical doctors impossible to break in some olympic games they even had or some games they've had people painted red and they sent bulls after them to make him finish a mile under four minutes and they couldn't and this man who was diagnosed with a terminal illness overcame that barrier why because every barrier in life first must be broken in your spirit every barrier in your health must first be broken in your spirit many people their barrier is not in the ring it's not in life it's not in the family it's not in the finances it's not in the business it's not your poor upbringing it's not your education it's right here a broken spirit who can help the bible says but a strong spirit can sustain a man in his illness so here we're talking about a man his name is Caleb now a little bio on Caleb Caleb word Caleb means dog Caleb was not originally from Israel he was Edomite he was a descendant of Esau somehow he slipped in and he ended up a part of Israel nation and but he wasn't his great grandparents were not really there he was from another place and he began to quickly rise in the nation of Israel in the position of influence one time they sent 12 guys into the promised land Canaan where the Israel is located right now on the map and they went to spy out the land means to look at if the land is as good as God described it and what will it take to take possession of that land Caleb was one of those guys along with his buddy named Joshua you know Joshua he's the guy who organized the trip to Jericho brought the walls down and he wrote the book named Joshua really cool name for the book when you're writing it so Caleb they come from spying the land and they brought a report two guys bring a report and they say the land is awesome there's a lot of big guys there but we'll take them down we don't know how we're sure we're gonna take them down if God help us to take Egypt down he'll help us to take these guys down and then 10 other guys they come in and they begin to say really negative things and they said the land is beautiful the land is wonderful there's great fruits there but but we can't take them down there's no way we're gonna conquer them and they spread an evil report and God became upset God came and God said that's completely not cool that you guys don't trust me and he said but Caleb because he had a different spirit something inside of him was different than the rest of the 10 guys he said he fully followed me see the 10 guys they followed God only when God was leading them out of trouble when things were difficult in Egypt and they said God help us we'll follow you out of Egypt and they followed him but Caleb says that's not all there is to following God God also has a promised land and I'm choosing not just to follow God to get me out of drugs to get me out of sexual promiscuity I'm not just choosing to follow God to get me out of alcoholism I'm not just following God to get me out of my painful past which is this is where the following God begins you begin to follow God when God takes you from your painful past this is a great place to start following God when God comes into your life he will begin to lead you out of your sin he'll begin to lead you out of your pain he'll begin to lead you out of the cases and the challenges of your life that are very painful that's where everything starts but that's not where everything ends can somebody say amen you know I heard testimonies even just this week when the young man went to you know went to war for a country and they've seen two of their best friends lose their life right in front of them and they shattered their faith and they found themselves without God they found themselves hopeless, despaired and even at the point of suicide but when they were invited to the hungry generation coming for the first few services they met God and they said God I'm gonna follow you out of my despair I'm gonna follow you out of my depression I'm gonna follow you out of that painful moment I'm gonna you're gonna take me out of that situation and that's how they started to follow God remember meeting a young man even this week who just recently gave his life to Jesus who twice attempted suicide whose father left him and doesn't want to even talk to him right now and he says Vlad my life was shattered and my life was broken he says I was so empty but he says just when I came and I met God Jesus Christ started to lead me away from the pain of my past see when you follow God he leads you from the painful places somebody say amen is there anybody here who God led you out from your painful places from the breakup or maybe trauma is there anybody here God is leading you right now out of your painful places but that's not where God wants to stop somebody says don't stop here God wants to take you further and Caleb was different because Caleb followed fully fully God isn't just interested in taking you out of your insecurity he wants to lead you into places you are uncomfortable in but places God says that's where you belong God says that's where you were born for you know God's dream for my life wasn't just to make me secure in myself so that I will not be ashamed and embarrassed of people I remember when I was younger and we just started our youth group we were renting a church and I was I think it was about 16 years of age I just got my license and we had a Thursday night midweek service it was just like this except there was only six of us and my English you think I have an accent now my English was exceptionally exceptionally amazing undeveloped as there are six of us sitting in the first five or six seats a guy comes in into the youth group a very small youth group he comes to pick up one of those guys from there and he was drunk so he begins to make fun of my English in front of my peers I felt so terrible I'm barely trying to walk out of my insecurity you know trying to defeat that trying to learn get the confidence of speaking in front of five people and here's a guy sitting in the back he's making fun of me so I'm speaking and he's interrupting me and all of the people they're giggling that's funny that's cute that's awesome and so I'm standing there and I'm just embarrassed I'm beginning to stutter and I we ended the service really quickly and I remember I was about to call next day call the pastor and say pastor I did I was the youth pastor for six months and I fire myself I am not good for this we were in the Winko parking lot and I'm contemplating because we didn't have cellophones I'm gonna come home and use that wired phone mostly we don't know what that is but it's a thing that you call and so and I was thinking I'm gonna call my pastor and I'm gonna tell him that I'm 16 year old I don't have Bible education I'm not good enough I'm still struggling with insecurity and as I'm thinking what I'm gonna say I'm crying I'm like being a little just baby girl crying just weeping it's so hard why do people not like preachers and everything and as I am sitting there the Lord this was one of the first times in my life I've experienced God spoke to me in here in my spirit and he said look at the Winko as I looked at the Winko God started to lead me and give me a dream so here I am trying to quit here I am I just want to survive I just want to not be ashamed of people and God completely doesn't care about that he's on a planet completely different planet and he says look at the store as I'm looking at the store and I see people walking in empty walking out with a lot of bags walking out with cards full of you know bags of groceries and people are going in there nobody's inviting them nobody's dragging them and hundreds of people walking in and walking out and the Lord places in my spirit not in my heart but in my spirit I feel the Holy Spirit plays Vlad if you don't quit one day that's exactly how the church is gonna be people will come to church by hundreds without even invitation they will come because there is bread there and it says 24 hours and the way the Lord started to put into my heart a dream the church will be open 24 hours for prayer it says pharmacy that people will be healed I'm 16 years old little equating discouraged and disappointed but see God wants me to follow him fully not just out of my pain but into the prophetic future he has for me and he has for you what is the picture God has that you have to follow God to believe see most of us are happy with our bills being paid for most of us are happy with us being healthy have a job and have a car and have a house to live in but God has a picture of your future and he wants you to follow him into that follow him into that when honestly living comfortably is so much easier and that day I took that picture inside I will be very honest with you that picture is still here when we worship before the services I like to go upstairs most of you do not know and I just revealed my secret to you I open my blinds and I see how all of you walking in I see different cars and a look and I was like I don't know who that person is before I knew you used to know every single person that came their name where they live the name of their dog their address some even I knew their social security number because I had to help him with some some other things and now people are walking in and I'm like I don't even know I saw the person at the bank that person works over there I saw the who is that person why when you believe a picture God gives you but it's so different from the reality that's why God says I like when you have a different spirit what's inside of you is so different than what you see what's inside of you is so different than what's around you what's inside of you is so different than what's in your wallet and what's on your relationship status and God says but my man Caleb has a different spirit he is with me his reality is wilderness but he has an image of Hebron he has an image of a promised land he carries that there are giants there but he still holds on to that and God says he follows me fully some only follow me to stop drinking but he follows me to start living some follow God to only get married but he follows me to save other marriages he's following me not partially not just a little bit he's following me all the way are you gonna be that person are you gonna follow God fully not just out of your painful past but into the dream that God has for you that completely contradicts your reality contradicts your emotions follow God fully fully all the way to the end till every dream God has on your zip code for you is fulfilled by him in Jesus mighty name can somebody say amen follow God fully have a picture from God let this picture if Jim Carrey the comedian at 1987 being homeless took an empty check and wrote for himself a 10 million dollar check and he dated it 1984 1985 so 1987 and he takes a checkbook and he writes a check he puts an image in front of himself and says in 1985 I will have 10 million dollars he was not having a contract to be a movie star he was a homeless man with the picture God says Caleb has a different spirit what's inside of your spirit are you carrying grudges it's your spirit not free from the pain of the past you have to free your spirit from the pain of the past and you have to fill yourself with the picture of God's prophetic future for your life hold on to that picture even if a contradicts everything inside of you because God's word which created the reality you have the luxury to enjoy God's word is powerful to change that reality and when God brings the picture inside of your mind of your future like right now we have a picture that we're praying for it's on our phones it's on our minds to your center being filled you see that's not possible it's also not possible for a virgin Mary to conceive Jesus Christ it's also not possible for so many things but my God says if you hold on to that prophetic picture I will make it happen and Jim Kerry instead of reaching 10 million dollars in 1985 in 1984 there's a movie that came out that many of you watched so many times and most of us live by that movie dumb and dumber you will be surprised did you know how much money it made him exactly 10 million dollars you say but I'm a better actor than Jim Kerry of course you are the only problem you don't have that image that he had that's why you will see Peter people better than you more talented than you people with better education than you people looking better than you talking better than you but they might go higher than you why not because they're better than you their spirit is different while you're over there trying to fight with your ex they're over there protecting a dream while you're over there trying to make everybody feel like to get even with them they're there trying to get ahead while you were there carrying the memory of your past they're carrying a dream for the future and that's what I want to challenge you step away from following God just for the past and step in into your prophetic future prophetic future when God gives you a word it's a picture that becomes a reality for your future now you also have to be patient like Caleb but when you keep that picture God will make it happen can somebody say amen last year around this time we wanted to give our vehicle away me and my wife had a very nice vehicle and we decided to that we're gonna give it away we're on Saturday driving to fred Meyer remember like yesterday I carried this in my heart for some for some weeks and I told her and she says yeah we should do that and I said well let's do them maybe like in a few months let's let it settle we're like no let's just do tomorrow in this way because if we're gonna wait for a few months we're definitely not gonna give it but if we give it tomorrow then we'll just deal with the consequences later like let's live by faith let's do it next day we met with this couple in our church who just had an accident and they lost their vehicle and they were looking for a vehicle we knew that they were looking for a vehicle and they had a baby on the way and so we invited them to our house for lunch and as we're eating now they don't know we have a surprise for them and so as we're eating as we're fellowshiping we're like hey we heard you guys are looking for a vehicle any luck they're like no and we don't have much money but we're looking for a vehicle it was like hey we wanted to give you a vehicle they're like you guys only have one vehicle we're like we know but you guys needed more so I said we're giving you a vehicle but because the bumper was scratched I said I'm gonna order the bumper fix the bumper do oil change do a few other things and then give you the car but from now on the vehicle is yours did you know what happened they both start crying nobody had the keys yet they didn't take the car with them you know what they took with them a promise which became a picture which produced feelings but I could lie the car can burn get burned out but see they trusted someone they knew when I gave them a promise they got a picture they went home as the owners of a vehicle they let their friends know we got a car and when they asked them where is it at in here that's what people will ask you you're successful well your car doesn't show it you're like well it's here why god said it and if Vlad if you can trust Vlad you can trust god if you can trust your father you can trust your heavenly father if god gives you a dream it's assured that's gonna happen in Jesus mighty name can somebody say amen different spirit is when you allow your spirit to be different than your reality and god says that's how you follow me fully in Jesus mighty name amen


Kia ora tato, ātapnwere o muntahara. Ako mi ertai i niwiaisunari i niwiaisunari, mi unlocku i annolälisua ng yolu aula, ng ka muntahara i aula sydepthai tata. Maka ganolri i tata o te ricao kai tata ganolo i tata. Pai tata ngi delau kai te ricao aula aula muntahara i tata. Pai tata i niwiaisunari i tata. Maka ganolri i tata i tata. Pai tata i tata i tata. Mi luve i tata i tata. Pai tata i tata i tata. Mata ii i zainas tha, jogi i aningadu, Ngācaw i Maida i Aqibau i iaядu pa i i tupapa nilcemeu apu'i tupapa. Apu i te atu tupapa, pareta ti i daltare i te mwahania dā hātumapai. Apu i mwahania tupapa, kaniria tupapa, mwahania tupapa, mwahania tupapa, mwahania tupapa, mwahania tupapa i aqibapia tupapa, mwahania tupapa i aqibapia i tupapa i aqibapia i tupapa i tupapa i tupapa, o'r gana bai gud. Azi u expect, it takes a lot to put on a conference like this particularly on volunteer time so I'd just like to take a few minutes to acknowledge everyone's involvement before we get started. Firstly, a huge thanks to our keynotes George Oates, Claire Amos, Josie Babosa, Ben Osteen and Trevor Owens. Thank you to those of you who have come so far for your time and the energy that you're giving to our community. And to all of our speakers from Australia and New Zealand and the organisations you represent thank you also for your time and commitment to NDF. It's wonderful to have you here. A huge thank you of course goes out to our sponsors and supporters. This year being headlined by Auckland Museum, the National Library of New Zealand to Papa and the Ministry for Culture and Heritage. We'd also like to thank Tunga Sound and Vision for their support. This year the trade hall is sponsored by Vernon Systems and Recalect. So please go and talk with them. They do a lot of work in our sectors and we're really lucky to have their support. They're joined by our other sponsors Internet New Zealand Victoria University School of Information Management, Wellington City Council and museums Aotearoa. Without their support the conference just wouldn't be able to happen so thank you. And thank you also to the many people involved in putting this conference together. A special thanks to Thomas and Slay and Michael Perry for heading up the program team this year. It's really shaped up well. So thank you. And thanks also to Dave Sanderson and the rest of the organising team for supporting that. You'll also be seeing Thomas and Michael up here on the stage over the next few days as they introduce a few of the sessions. Thanks to Sarah Knox and Michael Lascarades for coordinating all the workshops and events. I heard the workshops yesterday went really well so that's great. And Amy Joseph for help with registration and logistics. Claire Murdoch for sponsorship. Leith Ha-Hoff for web support. Fiona Feldzen for conference support and Alan Paula for an amazing job pulling together the handbook. I'd also just like to personally thank Matthew Oliver for his support this year. And thanks to Pada Coopers our conference organisers for keeping everything running smoothly.  This event is for you. And we'd also be remiss if we didn't also thank the many organisations that make it possible for you to be here. To Papa again is putting on the free wi-fi. Should be pretty easy to find. And you'll also find power plugs in some of the rows in the theatre. And if you're not seeing a plug near you then have a look during the breaks to find one if you need it. So the hashtag this year is NDFNZ. Now that is different to what's printed in the handbook. Sorry about that. But best use this one please. We've committed again to live streaming the event. So particularly the keynotes. So, you know, please tweet that out. The stream location is on the homepage of the NDF website ndf.org.nz and we're again recording all of the sessions including the streamed sessions upstairs. We'll be getting those up on YouTube as soon as we can after the conference. And if you need any help with anything else, then please just talk to the Parakupas team upstairs in Oceania. In terms of the conference there is a lot going on, as you'd expect. We've again got a mix of plenary sessions in here and streamed sessions where you'll be back you'll be upstairs. We've also got a couple of special events that I want to tell you about. First up is the keynote café. Now, so this is an opportunity to come and speak with our wonderful keynotes. I mean, you can speak to them at any time throughout the conference, of course. But at lunchtime there'll be an opportunity to actually sit down and have a chat with them. One of the big challenges we always face at NDF is that there's always at least one speaker who's at the very end of the conference. And you sometimes get that situation where you really want to speak to them but then it's too late. So I'm just going to do a quick run-through of who our keynotes are this year so that you know who they look like and you can go and chat to them. So in reverse chronological order George Oates is currently director of a design firm in London called Good Form and Spectacle and you can speak with her about designing interfaces that people love, user experience design, art direction, product management and working with complex systems and redesigning workflows. Jose Barbosa has a long history with the media and you can speak with him about the history of censorship in New Zealand, news and journalism, documentary making, writing and creating. He's a user of our collections. So pay attention to what he says. Claire Amos is a Deputy Principal at Hobsonville Point Secondary School in Auckland and you can speak with her about e-learning and schools teaching English, keeping our kids safe online, blended learning environments and future focus change in the education sector. Ben Osteen is the technical lead for the British Library Labs project and you can speak with him about open access strategies, crowd sourcing, data preservation, 3D printing, digital humanities, developer events and hardware hacking. And we're going to be hearing more about Trevor Owens shortly because he is our first keynote but if you're interested in digital curation, digital preservation, online communities, video games and culture, open source or digital humanities, then he's your man. Now of course you can talk to these fine folk about anything you like but that's just really a bit of a heads up of some of the things that they know a lot about. Tonight of course we've got our reception event up in Oceania. So please head on up after Ben's keynote for some good conversation, a bite to eat and a few drinks. And if you're new to NDF then I really recommend you head up because it's a lot of fun and everyone's really friendly. You're really friendly right? Yes, good. Tomorrow morning we hold the NDF AGM. In the past we've held this during the lunch break we've just decided to have breakfast this time. So a light breakfast is available and you should be there at 7.45am for an 8am start and if you haven't registered for the AGM, could you go and speak with Diane up at the NDF stand in Oceania because we need to know whether you're coming or not. Since the last NDF conference last year of course we have launched our membership program and thank you to everyone who has signed up as a member. It's been a brilliant year in terms of membership and you'll hear more about that at the AGM. And if you want to join as a member of NDF, the details are on our website and you can sign up and join the Community Forum. We are pleased to announce that we're also launching the NDF Awards tomorrow. So Matthew Oliver will be back up on stage in the closing session to recognise some of the standout achievements in our sectors this year. We have a few categories. I was not involved in the naming. The categories are, look who's talking for the best social media initiative. Getting your scans on for a new digitisation project. It ain't been done before for innovative use of something completely new and shiny new thing for a new digital exhibition or collection. We'll also be recognising one of our ambassadors and a standout ambassador this year for NDF. Now, your role in this is to nominate initiatives or people for recognition in these categories. And we've also got an open category for other people or initiatives that you'd like to see recognised. Now, the online nomination form is here, ndf.org.nz slash awards. So please be generous and nominate your colleagues for their great work this year. This afternoon, we'll also be inviting the Living Heritage Team to the stage to recognise the efforts of school children in creating online stories about their communities. You'll hear more about Living Heritage this afternoon, but just a small reminder to all speakers and looking at you that there will be children in the audience. So we're expecting all talks to be family friendly please. This is also a good time to note that NDF has a new code of conduct or has a code of conduct that you can find on our website ndf.org.nz slash code. So it's actually a pretty good read and something you should all be aware of so when you've got a minute, please check it out. Last but not least we've decided this year to add an unconference session to the conference this year and it's running in the last streamed session tomorrow. Here's how it's going to work. Up in Oceana you'll find a whiteboard with some posted notes available and what we'd like you to do is write up the topics that you'd like to talk about and put your name on it and feel free to group the posted notes if there are a few ideas that are looking similar. And then tomorrow we will tell you what the unconference agenda is going to look like and if you're interested in those topics then come along and participate. So the question is what might we like to talk about? Some of you may remember from NDF last year one of the national challenges we set was about being smarter about digitisation and you may also remember my fondness for the New Zealand Cartoon Archive at the Alexander Turnbull Library. So in order to frame up this challenge again let me take you back to 2002 which is the year in which the National Digital Forum was actually formed it's actually hard to believe it was created that long ago. That's the unconference session tomorrow. So in 2002 we had, or we still had the war on terror. This is from Malcolm Walker and with apologies to our Australian friends we had a refugee crisis in Afghanistan we were concerned about the price of housing this from Christopher Slane and the commercialisation of the All Blacks was running rampant. This from James Hubbard. So that was 13 years ago and earlier this year I also dug up the full output from the first NDF conference and republished it on the NDF website and it's absolutely fascinating. It's on the about section of the website if someone could tweet it out please and here are some of the opportunities that we were talking about 13 years ago and look I apologise for putting a screen of bullet points upon stage so early in the morning but I wanted to make these points pretty quickly so back then we saw the opportunities with access so the ability to provide better access to collections and institutions 24 hours a day 7 days a week and for those who traditionally may not have been able to access the materials education providing and assisting different forms of educational experience promoting a New Zealand identity tourism and cultural heritage commercial opportunities new opportunities for wealth creation and driving economic returns resource sharing to make better use of scarce resources breaking down silos between organisations and preservation of collections and fragile materials and here are some of the challenges that we have identified how can we work out what to digitise sustainability and funding who pays how do we care for and maintain our digital collections skills and training are organisations and people able to take advantage of the opportunities do they have the right skills and training ownership and property rights moral rights how do we honour and present information correctly how do we resolve issues of indigenous rights the digital divide which leads who drives which institutions should there be national infrastructure technology how do we digitise where do we go to for advice so I have just read that out word for word as it was documented 13 years ago the currency of this just kind of smacks you in the face Im mean this is 13 years ago and this is exactly the same kind of stuff if we got around a whiteboard challenges. It would be pretty much exactly like this. So I come back again, why is that challenge about being smarter about digitisation important? Well it's because content is at the heart of all of the experiences and opportunities that we create in our organisations. Without content our items and our objects we cannot function as museums, libraries, archives and galleries and neither can we function as wellsprings of education or creation without our content. And that is, you know, that's what's happening every day for many people because if it's not online it's like it doesn't exist and I talked about this last year. If it's not on Google and they can't find it it's like it doesn't exist. And I don't disagree that our physical spaces and experiences are important. You know they absolutely are. There's nothing quite like experiencing an artwork, an exhibition, a handwritten diary or an archival record first hand or being in a community space that is welcoming and supportive. But I just don't think we are ready for what comes next. You know we're not ready for the day when Amazon or some other equivalent service launches a Spotify type service for free access to its library of books. You know with the back catalogue of New Zealand published materials just not available electronically. We are not ready for the kids who want to 3D print objects for a pop-up experience at home or in the classroom. You know if they can't get the full digital skeleton of a moa are they just going to go with an emu? Our archives are not ready for the new wave of search services that are going to be powered by our phones. You know and our artworks are not ready for the immersive virtual reality experiences that are starting to open up the world's art. You know it's fantastic that our kids will be able to explore them in Alisa without leaving New Zealand. But where is our New Zealand art? Where is our Pacific art? You know what used to sound like science fiction. You know if you've been coming to these events for a few years these are things that were bubbling up over the last 13 years. I mean it used to sound like science fiction. It is not science fiction anymore. And in the eyes of the general public if it's not in the free digital library if the 3D model isn't there if Siri or Google now can't find the thing that they're looking for and if it's not an artwork that I can see on my VR headset it's going to be like it just doesn't exist. You know for the vast majority of people. And maybe you're thinking that's okay. I'm thinking you're not since this is a digital conference. That's what you're here for. But you know there are people out there who you know and it's reasonable to say well we're mainly about the experience that people have when they come into our physical spaces. Our museums, our exhibitions, our reading rooms, our galleries. You know and like I said I think that's perfectly reasonable. But we're leaving money on the table. You know I know all of our organisations are different. But at the National Library for instance we're approaching a ratio of 100 digital experience to everyone walk-in visitor. And there are huge opportunities there to further our goals through digital interaction. And that's why we keep coming back to topics like digitisation. The source of digital material and preservation. It's the foundation from which everything else becomes possible. So very simply we need to start wanting to continue strengthening those foundations. So if you're going to participate in the unconference sessions this year let's not recover that same ground we covered 13 years ago. Let's talk about how to make the next big steps. And not just about digitisation of course. Let's hear about all of the ideas and knowledge that you've got to share with others. And where can we work together to improve the value that New Zealand gets from our services and what we've got to offer. So it'll be really interesting to see what you all put up on the board. Like I said it's a free for all so go for it. At the end of the day the National Digital Forum is simply a network for those of us working in this digital space. And it's a place for us to share our ideas and experiences and to learn from each other. And it's an environment where collaboration becomes more possible. So be open to that and enjoy yourself. It's going to be a great few days and let's get on with it. It's now my pleasure to properly introduce you to Trevor Owens for our opening keynote. Trevor is based at the Institute of Museum and Library Services in Washington D.C. Which is the primary source of federal support for the United States 123,000 libraries and 35,000 museums. He has a background in digital collecting and preservation and he's currently responsible for the development of their national digital platform. He is a doctorate in social science research methods and educational technology. And his research is focused on the history and design of online community software systems, video games and culture and software tools for humanities scholarship. He's here to speak with us about people, communities and platforms, digital cultural heritage and the web. Please join me in welcoming Trevor to the stage.


A big reason why I was able to go full time as a streamer was the 70-30 deal. Like, I remember I was living at home, I was working on my teaching certificate. At first, when I first started streaming, I was literally, I accidentally became a streamer. Proposed changes to monetization approaches that reported the thing to discuss at Twitch, with a big change to partner revenue cuts being proposed. In a report by Bloomberg, several sources state that Amazon, Twitch's parent company, is continuing to look for long-term answers to financial stability for the streaming platform, sometimes at the expense of its users. One of the largest changes that could be introduced in the coming months will cut revenue from channel subscriptions, which can range from $5 to $25, from 70% to just 50% for Twitch partners, which consists of Twitch's biggest streamers. Well, so not every partner has this to begin with. Another proposed change is introducing new tiers to its partner program while loosening restrictions on where creators are allowed to stream, whether they're being partnered with Twitch, by allowing created streamers on YouTube and Facebook. Twitch seemingly hopes that the cut in revenue to its customers are going to be struggling now, so make sure to invest this wisely. Got to think about your future pay cut. Thank you so much. Take it with 27 months, dude. Ads are also being spotlighted more on potential changes, with more revenue opportunities for creators to choose to run Twitch ads more frequently and for longer. There's always been a challenging balance for Twitch and its streamers to strike, given the random nature of when ads run and negatively influences live streams by broadcasting at important times. That is why I run my ads whenever I'm taking a break from whatever, like I'm going to the bathroom or I'm loading something or whatever. That's why I run my ads then. Frustrating viewers in the process. That's why my viewers aren't frustrated. As Bloomberg points out, some streamers have just accepted this is where Twitch is headed, which makes new revenue sharing plans for ads plausible in the future. The report stresses that none of the changes have been formally agreed upon, which can see many if not all of them change entirely before being introduced, so many of its competitors struggling to attract creators in the same way Twitch certainly has to pull, has the pull to make large changes like this in pursuit to make ads with nearly a billion dollar purchase worth it. So, okay, I mean, that's pretty much what I read. Well, this is just a leak, right? And what I think happened, I think internally, probably they've just like brainstormed some ideas. Realistically, I think they've probably brainstormed some ideas of like, what about this? What about this? This is this, this is that. And somebody probably just leaked it that Twitch is thinking about this. First off, most partners have a 50-50 deal. Most people don't have a 70-50, 70-30 deal. I don't know what percent of people, but I definitely know it's not the majority of streamers, the majority of partners, streamers have the 70-30 deal. I got the 70-30 deal in 2018. I think I was at like 3,000 subs-ish, I think. I don't remember exactly when I got it. I mean, I'll be honest, I hope they don't do this, right? Just the honest truth about this. This 70-30 deal, or sorry, if they were to get rid of the 70-30 deal for people, it actually doesn't affect big streamers as much. Because I feel like if you've noticed this, sometimes really big streamers don't even have that many subs for their viewership. And there's a number of reasons for that. But I feel like the scaling, like the amount of your revenue that comes from subs scales down as you grow as a streamer. We're just trying to do the best that we can to put together the best content and entertain the most amount of people that we can. And what percent of big streamers on Twitch? That's the thing, that's another good question. It's not really a lot of people on Twitch that are not affected by this. So just for example, somebody like Asmin, Asmin does not have a lot of subs for how many viewers he has. There's a number of reasons for that. He doesn't really thank his subs and resubs. Because he does it in breaks and stuff like that. And I do this too sometimes. And people will then feel like their submeasures got missed. But I'll hit it five minutes later. Some people never shout it out at all. Shroud doesn't shout out his subs at all. So he doesn't have very many subs. But then other people, different people have different sub counts. For example, Summit still has a ton of subs. Summit still has like, usually every time I look, he's got like 20, 30,000 subs, right? The point of what I'm saying here is, the people that this affects the most, I would say are mid-range streamers and mid-range streamers who have the deal. And I don't think there's a lot of smaller streamers that have the deal. But just kind of recalling from my own personal experience, a big reason why I was able to go full time as a streamer was the 70-30 deal. Like I remember I was living at home. I was working on my teaching certificate. At first, when I first started streaming, I was literally, I accidentally became a streamer, right? Like I kind of accidentally became a streamer. I made YouTube videos talking about how to play Rep Paladin and vanilla because there wasn't a lot of good content on it. And me and Dracova knew like everything about vanilla Rep Paladin. So we wanted to make videos kind of talking about this stuff. And we did. Eventually we started streaming because I wanted to stream my raids literally because I wanted to record my raids and I didn't have enough space on my hard drive to record them and then post them on YouTube. So I just streamed them on YouTube. So I ended up doing that. We kind of made it, we made it a thing. Ended up growing to be the biggest private server streamer on YouTube. Ended up getting banned, moved to Twitch. I had to wait until Classic Wild came out to stream Classic Wild again. In the meantime, what did I do? I talked about Classic. I played retail and talked about Classic. I did some variety. I did IRL. Me and Ms. Kiff became friends shortly after I got on Twitch. Eventually, Ms. started streaming. Me and Ms. started doing IRL and a bunch of stuff together. Ms. moves to Austin. E-Rob is here. We had like the U-Trip, everything, all that stuff, right? Like that's a whole long story. That's a lot of, I can go into a lot of lore, right? But specifically with this, whenever I was able to move from down list to Austin, I don't think it would have happened had it not been for that 70-30 deal, right? Because basically what the 70-30 deal is, is you get one more dollar per sub than what you get with a 50-50 deal, right? You get three and a half instead of two and a half. So that much revenue, that much more income, was basically like the difference of being able to like get a place in Austin instead of living with my parents, right? I missed the stadium. The stadium days were good. I did, I did, I basically lived in a stadium. I literally, I snuck an air mattress into the football stadium and I would sleep in the stadium some nights because I would end so late that I would be like starting to fall asleep while driving and it was really dangerous. So I started, I started sleeping in the stadium a lot of nights while I was working for the football team. So yeah, why'd you get banned on YouTube? I got a, I got a three-month DMCA from Blizzard because I was streaming private servers. Red Punk, thank you for the tier one. And now like me and Blizzard, I worked like very closely with Blizzard. Classic.  That was, I was like on the list of like, like public enemy number one, but then, but then they started watching my content. They started watching my streams and were like, dude, this guy's actually good. And then they, they started working with me on classic. You're the first Tyler one. No, no. Basically it's similar to what happened with Tyler, except Tyler's thing happened before. Yeah, I'm pretty sure Tyler, I'm pretty sure Tyler's thing happened before mine. This whole thing, I think this, long story short, right? We're talking about a lot of lore and this and that. The problem with this, if they do this, I mean, sure, it would, it would be like a, a sucky thing for anybody with a lot of subs, right? That's a, that's a bigger streamer.  What am I at right now? I'm at 6787. I have 6787 subs right now. So if this were to happen, I would lose like almost seven K a month, right? $6,700 a month, I would lose. Which is that, that sucks, right?  But you can make, you can make up for that with, like if I were to take on another sponsor or something like that in the grants, giving things you get, you can take, you can make that up if you wanted to, right? Run more ads. No, I don't even think I wouldn't run any more ads than what I currently run.  And if they've only got like, only got like two, two, 3,000 subs, right? Because the, the two to 3,000 subs, let's say you have two to 3,000 subs, and now you've got a 70-30 deal. Now you have two to 3,000 more dollars of income a month and that $3,000 of income can be enough for, you know, moving somewhere, getting, paying for food, all your living expenses, right? Like that, that could be like that difference for the month, depending on where you live, right? Depending on where you live. They don't really give small partners 730s, that's apparently something to keep your time about how they want to negotiate it. No, it's, it's very difficult to get the 70-30 deal now. A lot of the 70-30 deal stuff comes from being involved in eSports.  This is like old, like legacy org contracts. Cause, cause org deals have, have changed. Like from back whenever we're talking like TSM originally, Liquid and CLG method even, everybody has all these different deals, right? Every, every org and every team has all these different deals. And as time gone, has gone on, they've been willing to do different things for different orgs, right? Or really, they mostly like tighten up more and more and they give less to, to new orgs. The issue is, like I said, it's not really for big streamers. As much as it would suck, I mean, hey, I'll be honest. I think, I think if, I think if anybody looks at this who has a 70-30 deal and says like, oh, this is not that big of a deal or like, sorry. They say they don't care about it. Well, I think they're just lying, right?  Right?  But at the end of the day, it really affects like the mid-tier streamers a lot more. Yeah. The mid-tier streamers would get really, really screwed by this. Anybody who has like a 70-30 deal. Or like, I mean, for example, you know, who else is a good example? Cause like, like Grayson. Grayson actually has a 70-30 deal because he's, he has like a legacy e-sports contract. Grayson gets a 70-30 deal. My roommate, my arena partner, right?  E-Rubb just got 70-30. E-Rubb just got 70-30 and I'm immediately going.


Okay, I'm Jay Fidel. This is Think Tech. As a matter of fact, this is Hawaii, the state of clean energy. And we're starting, you know, one minute late because it took me one minute to wash my hands. I wash my hands. I may wash my hands in the middle of this program. I hope you don't mind. In any event, we have an energy show. But, you know, all the shows, including the energy shows, are all related to coronavirus. So, I warn you, it's not just about energy. And it's Josh Powell. He's the CEO of Revolut Sun. And we are so happy to have him on the show. Hi, Josh. Hey, Jay. How are you doing? I'm good for now, you know.  You have to ask me again later. Anyway, so very interesting. Say again. Stay healthy. Same to you, man. So, here we are in a crisis, in a crisis. And it's not only a public health crisis. It's an economic crisis. And you say, well, I got to go home. I got to change my way of living. And then you look around and you realize you're the CEO of a significant company with significant employees.  There's all these things happening. And you built that.  And when everybody, you know, reacts to the crisis and they go home, they must go home and change their social distancing and all that. It affects the wheel. It affects the hub, the spokes. It affects every moving part of every business organization. So I wanted to visit with you about how it affected Revolut Sun. Because Revolut Sun is an organization that at least theoretically would be profoundly affected by this kind of crisis. How is it affecting you, Josh?  And obviously it's very serious for any business owner in the state. You know, it's a global crisis. And, you know, we have our, you know, we've been, I would, I've personally been looking at this thing pretty closely since early January, since the first news was coming out of China, just, you know, just with natural concern. And I would say we started making serious considerations internally in the business in mid-February as we started to see it spread more. And, you know, just started planning my partnership. We have three key active partners, Colin Yost, our COO, Eric Carlson, co-founder with me, and David Gorman. And, you know, we've been meeting together frequently, you know, a couple of times a week on this since probably mid-February, and started having much more detailed management level meetings as we got to the end of February. Operationally, you know, our first concerns is can we do work and can we do work safely? To that end, you know, we kind of pulled information together and created our own, you know, sort of new safe working practices for our employees. We started vetting customers probably four or five weeks ago. We started just doing interview questions when scheduling to make sure that household members hadn't been traveling, things like that, just to keep our workforce safe. But, you know, as the media, you know, as the media, but as the information has gotten out there and intensified in the general public, there is more fear, more concern for employees, for customers. We actually see probably more with employees than customers right now. Our feeling is that the best way to address that within the framework of the business and with our employees is, you know, really get good information out there into their hands. So Colin, you know, our COO has been kind of had the job of doing, I'd say, two to three times a week communication to the whole team with just the pragmatic stuff. Hey, what's going on? You know, this is what you should be aware of, you know, filtering information, a lot like we do for products with customers where we're, you know, trying to bring the best things to our customers so they don't have to, you know, diagnose everything themselves. We do the same things with our employees right now. We're having a lot of Zoom meetings. We actually had the office staff start working from home at a 50% level about two weeks ago, and then we went to 100% last week. You know, we're lucky enough to be considered an essential service. So we're allowed to continue working under Hawaii's shutdown rules. I think that's especially acute in Hawaii, given the fact that, you know, sometimes 20 to 40% of our electricity is coming from renewable resources. So, you know, keeping the renewable elements of the grid functional right now is very much critical to Hawaii. And, you know, companies like Revoluceno are the companies with the skill sets to keep those residential and commercial systems running and running right. So we feel that makes sense. It's justified. And, you know, but at the same time, you've got concerns. You got, you know, imagine I've got employees with elderly parents at home or elderly, you know, great-grandparents, and they want to be cautious about exposure. And we're trying to be really flexible with that kind of thing so far. We've been able to just manage that inside of our normal PTO. We have a generous PTO policy. We have healthcare for all workers. And so we're trying to keep that managed internally, obviously making ourselves aware of what the government's doing. And, you know, we started to see some impacts. I think in Hawaii, you know, as a construction business, we're not as directly impacted as, say, tourism. I mean, I think if you're running a hotel or a tour business, you know, you started seeing real impacts several weeks ago to cash flow, things like that. We've definitely seen an impact. And I think, you know, we've also seen some sales declines. You know, it's getting much harder to sell. But we actually, you know, we came into the year in pretty good shape. We had a very productive Q1 and trying to keep our pace. But I think the real key message to our employees and our customers and really the general public is keep picking up the knowledge, doing the right things. You know, the hygiene, the social distancing, you know, knowledge is your resource to abate the anxiety and use that knowledge to kind of assuage the fear. We also, you know, the mantra that we're putting out to our team is just, you know, be kind, be generous, you know, give people space, be patient. I think those are really important things, you know, just broadly right now because people have that little bit of extra fear. Well, boy, it follows the proposition that I always feel is central. And that is, if you want to solve a problem, bring your brain trust into the room and solve it together and come up with ideas and options. And then look at the implications of each one and then pick one and steam ahead. And it sounds like that's what you've done. It's good business. It's good professional conduct as well. So just a couple of thoughts come to mind hearing you say that. It sounds like, from what you say, that your field team, your field human resources are still out there doing what they do. Installing, repairing what have you, solar installations, am I right about this, on the on the roots in single family homes and maybe other structures as well. And so you have threaded the needle. That's my reaction. You've found a way to make that work even when a lot of companies, you know, have pulled the plug on that. They don't want to deal with the detail. They don't want to thread the needle. Just stop. But you haven't stopped. What was the decision? I mean, it's an interesting decision. And I mean, obviously, there's there's a lot of complicated elements. I mean, there's the ethics of exposure of your workforce, exposure customers. I think we put in place a lot, you know, we thought about it a lot. We put in place a lot of additional behaviors.  So all of our entire workforce have reusable nitrile gloves, you know, so and they have disinfectant on board all fleet vehicles. You know, we just, you know, we got simple there. We did it. We were doing a big bleach solution, which is safe and effective. And, you know, clean ground clean work surfaces before use extra precautions if we're working indoors and a lot of, you know, filtering customers to make sure that we think the household is safe. A little more latitude for field. If a field lead feels like the situation they're going into isn't safe, then they, you know, they can choose to pull out. And we've had, you know, we've had one or two instances of that kind of thing too. Customers, I think in general have been very understanding and we have, you know, we have a few, we probably have probably about 10% down on the workforce. So we have some people that are deciding to stay home, you know, where we are determined to avoid a furlough internally. I mean, that's, it's our objective to take, you know, to really try to keep ourselves in a position to not have to do that. We believe a lot of confidence that business will bounce back pretty hard. You know, we're, we're focused on a mix of commercial and residential as well. So some of the commercial job sites, it's mostly a big roof. You don't have a lot of public interaction. Same thing on a residential roof. We don't have to get too close to our customers for that. And obviously shifting a lot of things. We've closed our showroom at Salt, all the office, everybody's working remotely. So more laptops, VPN, you know, but thankfully we've got a pretty adaptable, you know, maybe being a PV company for 10 years, we've, we've dealt with more than our fair share of bumps and changes. Yeah, more than, more than anyone I know in that business, you've been completely adaptable. So let's look at some of the some of the things you've mentioned. Number one is the staff that ultimately went home, the staff that is working, arguably 100% of the time at home. How's that working out. It's always a kind of interesting experiment, because I don't you know I don't think Hawaii or the US is really used to that. And there's a certain risk of feather bedding and, you know, a failure to perform at home. How do you, how do you manage to deal with that? And how is your staff doing about that? I'd say, so I'd say number one, I mean, number one, we have a pretty mature mid tier management team at Red.  They've grown a lot with the business and, you know, tremendous trust there. And obviously, you know, very reliant on them managing their teams in a time like this. And I would say that trust rolls down. And I don't, you know, right now I'm not seeing that we're having issues. I would say with anything, we've probably seen some increases in office productivity, you know, given the greater flexibility in life. There's definitely a few places where we've had little challenges like moving reception offline and things like that. There's some technical stuff. Some people, you know, maybe a little more challenged adapting to the remote interactions. And I mean, the lack of social interaction, obviously people, you know, the office is a place where, where, where there's a lot of social interaction too. So I don't think we're seeing, you know, I'd say it's too early for us to see that have seen the impact of any of that kind of stuff. In terms of working remotely, but in terms of getting our basic jobs done, moving the projects along, you know, all of our operational technologies are, you know, essentially online software. So it's stuff you could do anywhere. On the software question, Josh, what, what new software and systems have you brought online, you know, to deal with the administrative issues or the staff issues working at home? I mean, surely you didn't have it all in place and maybe you had to find something off the shelf or from some, you know, custom provider to facilitate this and get around any challenges. Have you adopted new systems and software for that? I don't think anything new. You know, all our operational systems were already web-based software. So some of what we've authored on the sales side, some of which is subscriber-based. We use a Zendesk product called Base for our back-end operations, CRM, and we use a software we authored for the front-end sales. pseudocrew helped us on the development of that. We hired them for the development of that. We'll plug there. But local software company. So we're pretty well equipped there and we're pretty well equipped to work anywhere with that. So you already had it in place, didn't you? We already had that in place. So that's a measure of planning and resilience and all. But the other question that falls out of this is, okay, so now for a while, I wish I could tell you how long. If you put the two of us in a room together, we could figure out how long. But anyway, for a period of time, you know, you're going to be doing this because you have to. But at the end of that period, you know, and we can all go around shaking hands again, but not. Do you think that you will be more online than you were before? Do you think this will make changes in the way you manage the administration of the firm? Without question. Yeah, so so I was going to say the other software that that we're using a lot more of that we had, but you know, didn't use quite as much will be zoom for for public meeting, you know, for me group meetings and you know, we were probably using zoom mostly as a free service. Now we're doing some subscription stuff. You know, we had already VPN through our IT guys. Hi Tech Huey is our local IT company. And they've been supporting us with VPN for certain certain personnel for a long time. And so we just expanded that. You know, picked up a few more laptops, things like that. But you know, all that stuff was already there. We just had to expand some of it. It brings up some obvious questions.  And you know, if you can do more of that remotely, I think the biggest question for us right now is our sales process and interface with customers. And I'd say we're we're still early in making the adaptations that we need to make there. And we are definitely treating this like this may be an adaptation we're making permanently. Maybe an adaptation we're making for six months to a year. We're not thinking of it like it's an adaptation we're going to make for six weeks. Right, right. But you leave open the possibility is when the smoke clears, you'll have a system that works as well as anything that worked before and maybe even more efficiently or cheaper.  But and I think given the dynamics of our business in solar energy in Hawaii, you know, we have, you know, we're approaching this like any other change. We think we will learn and improve and get better. We're trying to recognize that we're probably going into a recession coming out of this. And at the same time, you know, this is a I'll make one another local plug.  And one of the products we have is the Hawaii State FCU loan that in a local credit union. And that loan is a two year no payment your amortization and and you can do PV plus storage. So, you know, you can get Tesla power walls with a loan like that. And generally that eight year amortization is still lower than the customers original electric bill was.     And, and that's, you know, you can eliminate that from your budget by pretty quickly, you know, in a matter of like, you know, 60 days. So we actually think that, you know, if we're, if we approach it the right way, we get the right products in front of people and and help them understand the things that are beneficial to them. There's no reason to assume we can't be doing more renewable energy outside of this. Yeah, but there's factors, there's factors in play. I mean, for example, oil, and the utility is largely dependent on oil and oil prices is way down. It's the last time I looked it was $20. And then people say it's going to go further down to given, you know, given the dispute between Russia and Saudi Arabia. So right now, oil is way down. But one of the big question is when we come out of this, you know, when it's back to normalcy of some sort. Are you going to be more or less competitive with the utility? Have you made this analysis, more or less competitive with utility at this time, at that time at that special time when we bounce back.  Are you going to be in better shape relative to the utility or worse? You know, if I were to put on Scott's you or Connie Lau's hat right now, my, I would be a thing that oil prices aren't going to stay down too long. But then, you know, if we look at the last global recession, you could see oil prices down for a year. That will bring energy prices down at the wholesale rate. At the same time, you know, HECO has approval from the PEC to hike rates about 40% over the next seven, eight years just for infrastructure. And they've also decoupled from, you know, infrastructure from the energy price. So, you know, it's a smaller component of your build than you think. It certainly will, it has the potential to bring bills down. But there's other things that are increasing them because of infrastructure needs in Hawaii. And, you know, I would, my sense is that we may see a flattening or a slight decrease for a little while. Commercial customers certainly are likely to see some increase or decrease in their pricing, you know, maybe the next six months. And it depends, you know, don't get me started on Russia and Saudi Arabia. If I hear another president about all good Russian, Saudi Arabia are for the United States, I have to wash your hands. Those guys are throwing a grenade into a global crisis. Perfect. So, you know, the other thing I wanted to ask you about was, you know, you alluded to it earlier, it's this relationship with the customer at a time of crisis. And, you know, everybody, everybody, no exceptions, is affected by the crisis psychologically in terms of making business and personal decisions and all that. And you spoke about the situation where perhaps your installers would find something in questioning a particular customer or prospective customer that concerned them about where he'd been, you know, what level of risk he had in terms of the virus. And they would be then inclined to say, you know, how about later. So what's the conversation like when you go to some customer, a prospective customer and say, you know, I don't really, I don't think we should do this. What do you say? That's a hard conversation, isn't it? So we try to avoid having that conversation at the install, right? Because that's, you know, we failed somewhere if we're having that conversation at the installation. We had an incident come up last week or I think early this week with one customer unexpected arrival kind of thing. But in general, we have a series of questions we're asking at scheduling and we schedule, you know, a couple weeks out and then a few days before the visit. So those conversations are frequent. Our schedulers are asking those questions, you know, have you traveled? Has anybody been outside the state? And it's really simple. If they need any of the criteria or is anybody at home already self-quarantined, et cetera, we're just going to kick them out 14 days. And, you know, our customers are happy to support that. I think, you know, like anything in government, any civil rights, you know, we rely on the, we rely on society to want to follow the rules, right? And I think in general, everybody in Hawaii wants us to get through this safely and is supportive.  So I'm not going to need any customer pushback on that. Yeah, no, that sounds reasonable to me. Instead of just putting it off for an indefinite period, you know, and people will wait. They've sort of been inculcated, you know, in our system, wait for a couple of weeks. The other thing I wanted to ask you is that you mentioned furloughs, okay? And I know you don't want to do that and no employer wants to do that. But, you know, in a worst case analysis, you may have to do that. Well, how do you do that and what effect does that have? And what I'm thinking in my mind is, gee whiz, if you furlough a valuable employee, you may not get that person back again. And then you're hobbled, you know, by the lack of a very valuable human resource, at least in a number of the cases I can think of. So how do you deal, how would you deal with the question of furlough if you, hopefully not, but if you got to that point? So, I mean, suffice to say, you know, we have to think about it. So we also have a plan. We thought it through. We thought about how we would handle it. I'm not going to disclose my plan on free tech. I mean, if it becomes appropriate to do that or we come to that point, we'll share that. But you have a plan. The point is you have a plan. Yeah, we have to. Like, you know, we have to think through, you know, I mean, just like our, you know, just like the National Guard in Hawaii has thought through many, many different types of plans to come up with scenarios where they might have to support the government. You know, we have to think through different ways we're going to do things. You know, we're actively pursuing all sorts of things. We've got, you know, all sorts of new support coming from the government potentially. You know, we're certainly looking into those things where the financing makes sense or would be helpful. You know, the bill that was just passed by the Senate that's going to be before the House tomorrow has some payroll help for businesses. I think, you know, it seems pretty clear to me that the government's intent there is it would be a lot more effective to keep people getting paid through companies than to try to push them through an unemployment system. Will that be a substantial help to you? The bill, the $2 trillion bill, would that be a substantial help to you? We'll see. I mean, the stuff I've read, it looks like there's definitely some good help for small businesses. And, you know, I think like any business where we've been impacted and, you know, we'll try to see what we can do there.  I mean, that stuff can be bureaucratic and challenging. So I think our first approach is to continue to function and to continue to function safely. And so we've worked really hard on that first. And, you know, and we're also being accommodating if an employee is concerned or wants to be at home. You know, we're trying to support that too.  But, you know, we're really, you know, as you said, all of our employees are really important to us. You know, it's really hard to bring on new people and get them to the level where they're where they're successful. You know, we don't want to lose that. One last point, Josh.  And I certainly agree with you, you know, it's not enough to say the check will be in the mail. It is what it is. You know, you don't know exactly what's going to happen here to any given business. But I'm going to talk about the state for a minute. The energy industry always has expectations of our state legislature. Sometimes those expectations are not meant for years and years and years to go by. And it's like the legislature, you know, really doesn't address it. And I'm thinking of, for example, the credit on storage, that bill that keeps on rolling along without being passed. But, you know, now the legislature has gone home. And this session is not coming back. How does that affect you? Is there anything in the pipeline that you were hoping for? Anything in the pipeline that would have improved the, you know, position of the industry that is now like dead at least till next year? What's your reaction to this recess they just took?  You know, it's not, there's, you know, nothing terribly wrong with it. It would be nice to have an explicit inclusion of storage. I'm not necessarily an advocate for a separate credit. I would just say put it in there as it is and leave it alone. I think great, you know, having no sunset and not attacking it every year would also be great. You know, I think even more so, that will help to, you know, shore up this industry. I mean, solar industries employs roughly 3,000 people in the state of Hawaii. Revolution has about 150 staff between sales and our field workforce, about 100 people in the field. You know, obviously we contribute a lot. We're probably the single biggest impact on, as an industry, you know, taking the state off of oil. We've seen the progress. I mean, in the decade we've been doing this almost 20, 25%, I mean, pretty amazing. It's an enormous amount of energy that's not being produced by fossil fuels.  Climate change is not such an immediate thing, but it needs the same kind of global shared sense of we got to do something.  It has nothing to do with this broader issue. And if anything, we should prove to ourselves that we don't want oil at any price. Last question, Josh, last question, and that is, you know, looking down the pike with all of this and trying to see into the future as every entrepreneur should try to do. What are the possible, you know, improvements in your business world that might come out of this crisis once it's done? How do you see yourself emerging and will it be better in some way? Not only in the business context, but in the community context as well. I mean, I think there's, I can't see this not enhancing our ability to communicate and using more tools. And so it seems natural that we're going to make some adaptations that improve that. You know, we're going to also continue to expand other services that make sense. So, you know, air conditioning, you know, as an obvious one, we've been providing air conditioning for about four or five years now. That business has continued to grow. You know, we're looking at more complexity there, filtering systems, air quality, those kinds of things obviously becoming more important. So, you know, adapting our business to customer needs and, you know, what people want right now.  We've already had some adaptations in our workflow. Everybody used to congregate at the warehouse in the morning, get ready, get their stuff early and then dispersed to jobs. We're limiting that now to just a handful of people. The rest of the workers go straight to job sites. And we already see some better efficiencies out of that. So, you know, there's lots of opportunities and we'll just watch that. I mean, you're always looking at another unique thing about the PV industry is because we have constantly decreasing product pricing instead of inflating product pricing. We kind of have to always be looking at gross margins pretty rigorously to try to improve efficiency, you know, stay competitive and to maintain profitability. Yeah, and that works in favor of everyone really. Well, Josh, the CEO of Revolution has been great to talk with you. I hope we can catch up again. It's great to see, you know, that there are companies out there that are planning and Akamai about the future and weathering the storm, so to speak. Thank you so much, Josh. Thanks a lot, Jake.