So hello everyone great to see you here today for those of you who don't know me. My name is and Herod Lang I'm the executive director of p-hap that's short for the International Association of Professionals in Humanitarian Assistance and Protection It's really terrific to see so many Familiar names of people joining introducing themselves in the chat also quite a few new people so a big welcome to those of you who are joining us for the first time As you know, today's webinar is entitled access and humanitarian protection lessons from restricted operational contexts and their application to the kovat 19 Operational environment This is the first webinar in a series organized by nrc the global protection cluster and p-hap with financial support from usa id This is clearly a topic that's engaging a lot of people Again, it's great to see so many of you in the the virtual room here on adobe connect I know we also have a couple of hundred people Following the live stream and more coming in every moment a warm welcome to all of you And so with that we'll turn to today's event as mentioned This is the first webinar in a series of four in which we will be looking at how humanitarian protect protection relates to access Humanitarian protection is often the most needed in the very conflict zones where access is also the most restricted In these contexts, humanitarians carrying out protection work and advocacy Are likely to face actors trying to restrict their access and ability to operate or simply to keep them out entirely In addition both in conflict zones and in contexts where access was previously relatively unrestricted The kovat 19 pandemic has led to sudden changes in how protection actors can access populations of concern What can we learn from the experience of protection actors operating in hard-to-reach areas? That we can apply now to the new challenges of the current operational environment Today in this first session, we will be looking at some of the key terms concepts interlinkages and dilemmas of protection and access and armed conflict disaster and health emergencies This will be an initial exploratory session And then we'll then be approaching this topic more in-depth from different angles in the future events of this series We've already received a number of questions from participants and we will be covering a lot of these Integrated into the discussion today with our panelists We may also have a few minutes at the end for a dedicated q&a session And I do encourage you to engage in the discussion throughout the event in the chat And also to submit any additional questions that come to your mind as the panelists are speaking to submit those Throughout the event we will be covering as many as possible during the session today And for any that we don't have time for in the live event We will either address them in one of the upcoming events in the same series Or we will follow up with our speakers afterwards to see if they would be willing to provide an answer in writing That we can then include in community discussions Following on today's event So um very pleased to introduce our panel now We're joined today by a panel of practitioners who have dealt with questions Related to protection and access in different contexts and from different organizational perspectives In their work first of all very happy to have with us Pilar Jimeno-Sarciada head of the protection of civilian Of civilian population unit at the icrc. Welcome to you Pilar great to have you on the line Hello Great thanks for being here Pilar Um and joining us from tunis yasin abbas is the recently appointed protection cluster coordinator for the whole of syria His recent experience also includes protection in remote management situations in syria And the surrounding countries as well as in libya. Welcome to you yasin. Thanks for being here Thank you very much. And thank you for having me with you Our pleasure And joining us from athens where he is currently the deputy representative for unhcr. We have jason hepps Apart from sharing his perspectives from the current response in greece Jason also has extensive experience from the field and hq Including four years working on the syria response. Welcome jason Hi, thank you for having me Great thanks a lot and coming at this with more of a focus on the access side. We have maria duncan joining us from yemen maria works as a humanitarian access advisor with nrc And is the co-chair of the humanitarian access working group in yemen. Welcome maria. Thanks for being on the line Thanks very much for having me And bringing a global perspective on access joining us from new york is sophie solomon Global access advisor with ocha who is supporting operations worldwide on access negotiations and Strategy welcome sophie and good morning to you Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening everyone and looking forward to this conversation Terrific, thanks so much. And I'd also like to mention we'll be hearing from william schimali global protection cluster Coordinator at the end of the session for some wrap-up reflections on today's discussions great to have william with us as well Perfect. Okay. Great. So, um, we have We we have a broad audience with us for today's session I see it's growing all the time as well. We have more people still coming into the room. Um, We wanted to start out with Trying to make sure that we're all on the same page about some of the key terms and concepts That we're dealing with here. So first, I would like to turn to you pilar For one of the most fundamental concepts for our discussion, but one that can be a bit confusing sometimes Could we just start with the question? What is protection as the term is used in humanitarian response? And I know this can be a very long discussion, but we're going to try to move quickly Here through through the the key terms and concepts, but a very grateful pilar if you could help us out with an overall definition Perhaps a couple of examples to help us get started. So term the term protection over to you pilar So the most common definition of protection I would say is the one that uh, that has been adopted by the yas And that refers to all activities that aim at obtaining the full respect for the rights of the individuals in accordance with the relevant bodies of the law those, uh, being Um, human rights law international humanitarian law and refugee law mainly In practical terms, protection aims to ensure that authorities and other actors Non-state law actors mainly fulfill their obligations and uphold the rights of individuals In order to preserve life security dignity and well-being of victims of armed conflicts and other So the idea is that protection tries to present or put an end to actual or potential violations of the law Protection focuses on understanding causes and circumstances of violation And addressing those responsible and those who can influence them And second on dealing with the consequences of violations A potential response and also focus on reinforcing the capacity of individuals to respond to risks and threats An effective protection response, uh, must be informed first by analysis of the threats and risks that people face And steps have to be taken to minimize those threats and risks to ensure the respect of the rights of the people You know that that means that uh, or specific organizations should be shouldering the primary responsibility for people this responsibility based on states and non-state groups Humanitarian actors should identify the the potential risk and threats and should highlight the proper responsibilities While supporting such protection strategies of individuals So this is the understanding of humanitarian protection. I mean, uh humanitarian organizations doing protection today Excellent. Thank thank you for that and and staying with you pilar and Thank you for for staying as close to the mic as you possibly can. I know it's tricky What about some of the main terms that we often hear related to protection? So protection activities or protection programming Protection mainstreaming protection of civilians. Do these all refer to the same thing or are there important differences that Everyone should be aware of back to you pilar So within the request and request of movement, we we have worked With three different levels of or types of Protective action, sorry The first level will be what we call protection mainstreaming which refers to ensuring that protection risks and minimize and potential violations of international and domestic law Taken into consideration when carrying out all humanitarian activities So this means that assistance activities also address protection needs Through ensuring that dignity, access, participation and safety affected people Taken into account And this is relevant for all humanitarian actors, whether they are protection actors or or not So what we can see the protection mainstreaming is that at a minimum So many times an actor should ensure that they do no harm and adopt protection lens in all of their humanitarian reasons A second level will be a specialized protection activities addressing the causes and circumstances leading to violations of the law It also includes addressing the consequences of these violations that I said before This activity includes the people the kind of liberty activities aimed at restoring family links Efforts to clarify the fate of the missing Other areas of protection activities also File protection addressing sexual and gender-based violence Mind risk education or the provision of legal assistance So a specialized example approach entails regular monitoring of situations of persons Supported a confidential dialogue including reports into authorities and relevant non-state actors at different levels Obviously on the confidential dialogue, this is a very much eye-catching approach Requires alleged violations of relevant bodies of of the law and other norms And then the third level which will be The all the efforts that start to promote an enabling environment that is conducive to the protection of vulnerable people By by advocating that matter and principles and protection elements are taken into account And these elements are integrated into the policies practice and legislation So that will be more or less the differences between the different types of definitions or notions Perfect. Thank you so much Pilar I'm quite I'd like to move on Now to yes scenes to ask one more fundamental question about protection before we move on when talking about Protection we often talk about the rights of people And those who and those responsible for ensuring those rights are are normally states, of course as as pilar mentioned We also talk about the obligation of states and other parties to conflict To follow the laws of armed conflict Given that states and also to some extent armed non-state actors or on groups are Holding these obligations What then is the role of humanitarian organizations to carry out protection work? How do you see this yes seen as protection cluster coordinator? You are part of coordinating the response of a range of different actors relating to protection So what is your perspective on this and what does humanitarian protection mean in the syrian context over to you yes seen? Okay, i'm afraid we we've lost the connection with yes seen. We're going to try to get that back in the meantime Jason and if I could Turn to you So Variation on the same question So looking at the context of the greek islands. What is humanitarian protection? In this context and how does it manifest itself differently? From that in the syria response if you could come in on that jason Sure. Thank you. You can hear me. Okay Yes loud and clear Okay, great. Um I mean, it's quite different. There are a lot of the same principles between the greece experience and then the syria response situation, I mean and if I'm if we're just focusing on the syria as a country so the Being a conflict zone versus greece being receiving refugees asylum seekers and persons traveling through the other point in in greece being a having relatively strong state standards and U directives which apply to those that are arriving The humanitarian protection one element of it that we are doing and it's on the islands and the mainland, but It's quite acute in the islands is, you know, one level would be monitoring the compliance to those in another level would be The areas where we are actually doing interventions similar to those that you would see in states where you are coming from some of those similar may be in syria and in working with and identifying unaccompanied children having programs to support and refer victims of gender-based and survivors of gender-based violence making sure within these programs of that have that derive out of these strong U directives which are provide for very relatively generous accommodation and compared to in conflict zones accommodation And support for essential items for all of the population But then finding and making sure that those within with specific needs within that population the elderly Or or others that are in at-risk groups Do receive specific support identifying them and then making sure it's tailored to their needs Okay Got it. Thank you. Um, and then turning to the other term in this session's title access This seems like a very straightforward concept But what is it in practice that we need access to maria? Could I ask you to come in on this? Sure. Thanks very much. Um straightforward. That's quite interesting I guess the breadth of it makes it straightforward because we get to consider everything Access and interfere on everyone's work But in short nrc defines humanitarian access is the ability of crisis-affected populations to access impartial assistance and protection Um, and what's really important to note is that there's we we see three pillars to this the first is our as nrc the ability to access people with quality assistance People's ability to access our services and then people's ability to access assistance and protection provided by other actors And I think it's really important to emphasize the those last two because we often think of access or or what? Define access when it's a challenge or when it's an obstacle um, and we don't always think about Improving it when we don't really really know when we could lose it key words to To also emphasize is safe and sustainable access And inclusive and equitable access and that really can be summed up as the quality of your access We can have compromised access um But the quality of the access is really important to make sure that it really is unimpeded access with quality services And that's where you know the link to humanitarian principles comes in because they're so crucial to maintaining Quality access beyond just ensuring operational independence. Um, so I think that's how I would sum it up Perfect. Thanks so much maria and now turning to sofi As we are normally concerned about access being limited or restricted What are some of the main reasons? For those restrictions if you could just briefly outline some of the key access challenges that we see around the world Perhaps we can wait a moment for the skype. Okay. No, there we go. Go right ahead Okay, no, so like first of all if we're looking at the access constraint that we're observing worldwide I mean, there are more or less The same even if of course, they are very contextualized But if we are looking at the main categories, we see like conflict Violence against humane and personal and assets and the misappropriation of aid Interference bureaucratic impediments more and more are the main like access constraint that we're observing in the countries where we have humanitarian action and what we're really like looking at is The the patterns and like what are the challenges in terms of this access constraint and what we see Is that the current armed conflicts that are really characterized by a multiplication and a fragmentation of actors present particular difficulties in obtaining access for humanitarian assistance Because we have to negotiate access with so many different actors It's very time-consuming for a humanitarian actors and requires like an in-depth knowledge of the community of the different actors and a constant endeavor to like negotiate access and explain like who we are as humanitarian actors What we see also at global level is that access discussions are increasingly politicized And we see that access is discussed at the security council And we see like contexts such as like Syria, Myanmar, Venezuela Where humanitarian access is extremely politicized Which actually in the field like trigger like some difficulties in terms of sort of negotiating access if we're also looking at some counterterrorism policies and Some policies that actually criminalize humanitarian assistance or criminalize medical care It's an additional challenge to humanitarian actors on the ground So different levels of constraints Some that are very localized and also some that are like really like triggered by the general discussion and the global context Great. Thanks so much Sophie we have a question that's just come in in the chat Perhaps we can take a moment staying with you to just address this right off the bat So the questions from Marianne in Sweden She writes I've formally worked on Formerly worked on Yemen and humanitarian access. It was a challenge to say the least What can practically done practically be done to prevent COVID-19 from being used as a way to impose restrictions on humanitarian work I know this is a big question. It's also a very timely one and I wonder from where you're sitting Sophie What are some of the discussions? That you're aware of when it comes to this question Which I'm sure must be on the front of many people's minds and also in other locations around the world over to you Sophie No, thank you for this question And I think it's one of our main concern. We are a bit worried that COVID-19 Would be used by certain parties as like an excuse to like restrain access even more and I'm sure like maria Could actually like explain even a bit more like what's happening on the ground What we're really like trying to make sure is that when we're negotiating access We are making sure that everything that we're doing right now would not have like an impact on the long term So while we are negotiating access for COVID-19 while like taking into account all the public health measures that have been put in place by the authorities We are making sure that the the negotiation We are doing and the the measures that are put in place by the authorities will not undermine On the short middle and long term or capacity to have access In to to the communities in the future And I think we can discuss like a bit longer when we'll like go into like the COVID-19 topic But indeed we are a bit worried about some of the restrictions that restrict some Sectors of implementing their activities or having access to certain categories of people or having access to certain Areas of the country We are a bit worried about the additional measures that have been put in place by authorities to control movement At the same time we need to balance that with the necessity of respecting the public health measure So it's a very challenging Balance that we have to make between like understanding the public health measures And at the same time like making sure that any like decision that would have any like agreement would have with the authorities Will not undermine or capacity to have access in the middle and long term Excellent. Thanks so much Sophie and yes indeed. I'd like to jump back to Maria now Reflecting on now what we've heard from Sophie Primarily from a global perspective How does this relate Maria to the kinds of access Constraints that you're seeing in Yemen over to you Maria Thanks very much. Yeah. I mean, I think so if you really really sit the sit the scene I mean in Yemen for those of you who work here or work here Know that we have the plethora of access constraints I mean if you kind of box it into bureaucratic and security and logistical constraints We have it all and we often hear about the bureaucratic constraints Particularly in the north of Yemen tape being kind of the predominant Notion around what access looks like here, but really they're so overlaid and they're throughout the country So, you know, we have multiple layers of approval that every stage of program implementation And they are ad hoc. They're unpredictable. They're often contradictory at the national and the governor at levels They are often used as a tool to extract more from humanitarian actors at each stage So that's where independence is affected, which then of course affects our ability to be impartial or our ability to be neutral But then that overlays with security I mean sometimes bureaucratic approvals are related to security and maybe that there are legitimate security concerns for a travel permit being denied for example to show you the overlay and then of course logistical, you know, we have floods and You know mountainous roads and things like that to also think about for for reaching populations and them to reach us and for every In a context like Yemen for every decision we make to to reach a population There will be some level of compromise because it is not unimpeded access here And it will affect the quality. So is it because will we be sacrificing a little bit of our neutrality and can we mitigate That risk will we be sacrificing? You know perfect protection mainstreaming Principles for beneficiary to reach a distribution point, but it's either that or or there's no service at all So it's always weighing up What can we mitigate in terms of that the compromises we're making To fulfill our humanitarian imperative but also knowing when to step back Many of you probably know Yemen is quite In the news at the moment as Sophie pointed out politicised With us the us pulling funding often being part of security council statements. And so It is a very difficult area to know when to when to say no and when to Say that it's too compromised to hold back the short term access for Long to maintain opportunities for longer term sustainable access and community acceptance that we hope we will reach through a Maybe a protracted negotiation process Um, so we really have everything here in Yemen Great, thank you so much Maria there you already discussed a bit I think these concepts But I want to just very quickly zero in on these specific terms that I think will continue to hear throughout the session Hard to reach areas and restricted operational contexts. Could you help us? Just by briefly explaining what these terms normally refer to back to you Yeah, of course So I had to reach glasses about thinking about the context in which we work So access is that there's the tools the strategies and the approaches we use To get to the hardest to reach populations Um What is important to remember again is that I think we often measure or define or default to think about how to reach as a geographical Space, but we really have to think about how to reach populations that may be You know throughout the country It might be a particular ethnicity as a particular demographic that are also Had to reach because of the constraints to to get services that they face So that's one really important point and then another thing is that Hard to reach is Measured in nine categories that Sophie also alluded to before Because we have to measure it somehow. It's not a perfect evidence base but And two of those categories are about obstruction of aid and denial of assistance Which are much harder to quantify a much harder to Identify with staff as opposed to Contamination or violence against humanitarian personnel. So it's always much harder to To measure and therefore respond to What I mentioned in the first place that second access pillar of beneficiaries getting to our services But that's hard to reach And then you had another one Yes, uh restricted operational contexts Right, so I guess I mean Technically you could think about this across all of the bureaucratic logistical and security constraints But for Yemen, I think it's really about focusing on the regulatory environment that we work in which I also mentioned before So the bureaucratic and the interference the layers of approval had it all tied to each other Um in Yemen, it's very hard to predict these. It's very hard to put systems in place Um, it's a bit of a dividing compare We as INGOs in any unit more generally It has to come up with common positions of passions because there is nothing in place to to follow No common positions. So I think that that regulatory environment is really what is Um about Yemen is what we would consider our restricted operational contexts, but of course security and logistical constraints also for them to that and One thing I would like to highlight also about that is that We don't want to automatically comply with every directive and every health or You know Directive that comes through but we also have to balance that with staff safety if we don't comply Um and organizational reputation if we don't comply. So always things we have to think about when we have authorities Yeah, putting us in a tough position. We really have to weigh that up Okay, thank you Thank you very much Maria and uh, we'll be looking forward to coming back to you to to speak more More about the current situation where you are in Yemen Now at this point as in this event series, we're interested in the interlinkage between access and protection I would like to look next at how access and protection relate to each other As we discussed earlier protection is often about rights of individuals and duties of states and other authorities In terms of access, it's also often states or armed groups that are responsible for putting restrictions On humanitarian's ability to reach affected communities Pilar, if I could come back to you, uh, do you have any general reflections? Um that you could add to to to what uh, to what you shared earlier regarding this connection this interlinkage between protection and access over to you Pilar Uh, it's critical to be able to monitor the protection situation Assert victims needs independently work with communities address consequences in an impartial manner Incubation of armed conflict access to victims is regulated by IHL So rules of IHL Regulating in IHL and access must be respected by all parties to armed conflict Each party does their primary responsibility to meet the needs of the population under its control So impartial humanitarian organizations Could have the right to offer their services in order to carry out humanitarian activities Especially in situations where those needs of the populations are not being met um, but these humanitarian activities are and and the consent of So the access to to uh, people in need is um subject to consent to the of the parties to the conflict And I tell the parties to the conflict Have to provide this with a concern when this control Uh, what would these needs are not being met as I said? um I actually that's not specified. However, what you need to matter in activities Uh, that organizations may offer so the junior convention conventions applicable to international armed conflict Specified that the IHLC another and other impartial humanitarian organizations Had offered to undertake humanitarian activities for the protection and the relief of those affected by armed conflict So their protection activities are included From an article 3 to the junior convention all it refers to services But one should consider that the right of initiative that is applicable in in nyack also includes all humanitarian activities including In some humanitarian activities that can be offered within IHL have both protection and assistance I mentioned Since both work towards the same objective, which is uh, safeguarding the life and dignity of the victims of armed conflict And this is how we should be reading any uh, negotiation for access and uh protection activities When we have access and strength Extremely helpful pilar. Thank you for that and I we did have a few questions regarding the legal framework that had come up So i'm very glad that that you were able to um to also help us by by bringing in How how IHL helps us to understand that relationship between protection and access um Staying with you now pilar if we turn now to how humanitarian How humanitarian actors link up these two concepts in practice And how it might differ uh from one Humanitarian actor to another one way to approach this is to look at organizational structure. We thought it would be interesting um Considering that we have a panel with people coming from several different organizations who all have either protection or access In their job titles. So pilar if I could start with you again You're the head of the protection of civilians unit with icrc Do you have a comparable access unit in the organization? Or how is that structured within the icrc, uh between work on access work on protection and and why over to you pilar So so no at the icrc. We do not have an independent access unit Responsibilities for negotiating access are spread across the organization Obviously, uh under the strategic direction of the head of each field delegation for every specific context So at the level of protection, uh, for instance, the tension delegates will be negotiating access to places of detention and specific groups of detainees The delegates will maintain a dialogue with state and state and groups to be able to speak or maintain access to populations in needs In their specific geographic area responsibility And of course, uh, the head of delegations will discuss at the highest level both geographic as well as sexual access to the whole country Um, so why is that? Why we do have this approach to To access Well, I think this approach is a reflection of the field realities and experience of the icrc In many contexts, you know how to centralize authority that can provide blanket access across regions, for instance There's also an acknowledgement that the person in charge of an area An activity has the knowledge of both The needs and the interlocutors to be able to negotiate more effects with that access. This is why we have this global approach Okay, thank you for thank you for that pilar. Uh now sophie You are the global access advisor with ochre. So could you explain to us? How does access sit within ochre in relation to protection over to you sophie Thank you. Actually, I'm very much echoing what pilar was just mentioning I mean for us like access is an overall responsibility and we do believe that all ochre staff Have a role to play in terms of like negotiating access or ensuring access through analysis Through advocacy or through like direct negotiation But what in comes to headquarters at at quarter level IHL protection protection and civilian and access are in the same section And the idea was that building and maintaining access and upholding the right and dignity of individuals are both Granted in international law So the interplay between access and protection was quite obvious and they're both you mentioned imperative And so we feel like there was like a necessity at global level to make sure that these functions are working together And then supporting the field where everybody has this overall responsibility on access And of course, I mean access is also a prerequisite to a lot of like protection programming So I think it was also like making sense in terms of like ensuring that protection programming can be implemented in the field That access like work closely with the portfolio Perfect. Thank you so much and now moving to maria as an access advisor in nrc How does that relate to protection work within in our nrc over to maria? So for nrc protection and access is reduced differently for each country office That can be based on the context Based on funding opportunity Of course, it would be great to have an access advisor and protection advisor in every co But this is not always the reality, but I think it is important to stress as Sophie and pilar have both pointed out is that it is still the role of of everybody So whether it's protection and protection mainstreaming whether it's access and access mainstreaming by default All our area managers all our Field field teams really are responsible. It's more about capacity building designing of tools supporting So that we can make sure that access it really is everybody's job in the field And they are more supported to take on that role When it comes to Protection and access so we have an nrc kind of three pillars of of protection safe programming Which is protection mainstreaming safe plus Which is integrated protection and then we have standalone programming And as I kind of mentioned before I get to interfere across all our our competencies and our specialty areas and Very lucky to be working with a great protection advisor who's on the line here So I had to throw her that one but Where where you kind of see some of the bigger overlap is around the inclusion discussions It's around the equitable access and then Sophie pointed out which is also what I wanted to reinforce is that protection standalone protection programming often requires a level of acceptance and trust of the community that a general food distribution or You know hygiene promotion doesn't and so that's where as access and also with security as an acceptance Strategy we need to make sure that our programming the way we do things Is going to serve all of our sectors and protection is often the hardest one to make sure that communities Really have that level of trust with us. So that's that's where we work the most closely together Perfect. Thanks so much maria and now continuing around the panel jason How does unhcr structure the relationship between access and protection in its work? Hi, thanks. I think that as a unhcr staff that when you hear the word access the first the instinctive response is thinking about access to territory access to asylum and that relationship and The importance to work toward that and how it links to humanitarian access. I think Sophie made a reference earlier on to the increasing politicization of humanitarian action and that includes also Access to territory and and access to asylum and we need to recall and it's ingrained in in us that asylum has a humanitarian civilian and a peaceful character and The need in the efforts to maintain that civilian and humanitarian character of asylum Are essential to put forward and if We work toward that make sure there's a common understanding and that is clear across the board That is done. One of the objectives Of doing that is to enable humanitarian access For the purposes of providing international protection for the purposes of delivering humanitarian assistance and so that Closing that circle of linking and ensuring that everyone is aware of why someone needs access to territory the nature of asylum in that Because of that and because it's everyone is assured and we sustain the civilian humanitarian character that can be used To push through and in the negotiations and in the understanding and common understanding to enable humanitarian access Okay, thanks Jason last but not least as we come around the panel. Yesen you are a protection cluster coordinator And we know of course that there is no access cluster So I wonder how can how would you explain the way that your work as protection cluster coordinator relates to access over to yesen well We we don't have An access cluster, but usually we have an access working group like now in Syria. We have in this hunt Hop we have access working group, which is the protection Cluster is an active member of the cluster of the access working group bringing information analysis on the threats needs and burnable population Our link is mainly And we are strongly about advocacy Advocacy to access to the most difficult population and also to ensure that protection principle are mainstream But then the humanitarian intervention including when it's come to negotiation and and also access In theory it's a little bit difficult where we Be barked before with the access working group And unfortunately now it's become more independent only Become agency based While in in other hops we still Very active. So our rule is fundamental to ensure advocacy That the access priority And negotiation is toward the most vulnerable population and also to keep protection On on the on the agenda for the humanitarian community when it's come to to provision of assistance To ensure that there is meaningful access unsafe dignified For the most vulnerable people and this is our main role on the access All right. Thank you Yassine. So now I'd like to To move to dig a bit deeper into the dilemmas of access and protection again, this is a huge topic. We're going to try to address it Quite efficiently because I see that there are a lot of questions Specifically related to COVID-19. So I want to make sure we have enough time for that Towards the end But now I'd like to turn so this will be to Maria, Jason and Yassine Um What uh, what are the main trade-offs? When negotiating access, especially in terms of protection Do you have an example of when it was not possible to To have both to both pursue protection objectives and To have access and in such a situation. How do you prioritize? And any examples would be very welcome on this over to Maria first Thanks very much. Well, I think one of the most timely examples is quarantine sites in Yemen and many countries I am Assuming around the world right now We're you know defective decline or in close proximity to That we the importance of those also is whether we respond in those sites or not And it isn't a zero sum game. I mean we to try and Have the best protection outcomes possible while also having access to to these populations What we need to weigh up though is one of the main trade-offs is Are we able to provide essential services? And often that can come at the expense of acceptance or longer-term access or freedom of movement of that population Or the individual agency of that of those people in those sites in Yemen right now To answer your question. Yes, we are having a go-no-go situation for every Request or every identification of a quarantine site that we might want to respond to We need to weigh this up with you know, the criticality of the service We're providing our ability to monitor our ability to mitigate issues around neutrality and Maintain distinction of our operations in those sites the long and short term access impacts I mean the list goes on what we have to weigh up and right now we have not responded in one of those sites because We have identified that we cannot Um, you know the criticality of what NSE can offer in that site Does not get weigh up with the protection concerns that we and and the principal access concerns that we Have weighed up, but it is an ongoing discussion And it's really key that if you do respond in those sites You constantly monitor and have a period of review and you have your red lines and you have your triggers To make sure that if you need to exit you can do so responsibly and that's also really key It's not a yes. No, and then you leave it at that Got it. Thank you so much for that maria Turning to jason, uh same question. Do you have an example of? Of a situation uh when it was not possible to both pursue protection objectives and Successfully negotiate access. Could you share that with us and and also? thoughts on prioritization over to jason Yes, I think maria touched on a lot of of what needs to be done I think of examples such as discussions around What we used to call cross-line con boys coming from In syria coming from government to non-government controlled areas colleagues also working in opposition controlled areas there and also examples I can think of meetings with IDPs or hinge IDPs in me and mar where Essentially you Were not allowed to ask Some certain questions or interact your access to individuals to collect information Or to monitor or identify any specific issues was significantly curtailed And controlled and monitored by states or other officials the key as maria mentioned is Very good preparation beforehand to understand What the limitations and envision what you are going into and what is the likelihood of what happens? to assess If you by going what is the value? What is the harm so applying the do no harm approach doing a risk assessment? Am I Validating the actions there by my presidents will it be used or abused? And what are my expectations or objectives by being present and taking? Whatever information that I can or interventions What will I be able to do with it in terms of an actual support to individuals? Or will there be a public or private advocacy resulting in some level of policy change or otherwise and then when the access is finished when that moment is finished To come out and to take a full stock of that and apply lessons learned But it's really about the preparation and understanding before and after And then being in place taking advantage as much as possible of your time there if you do decide to go Got it. Thank you Jason and yesen same question over to you Well, they are too Too concerned. We are facing or we have been facing many operation before one of them remotely Managing a program With potential consequences for effectiveness quality accountability and Transferance to local staff versus Continuing in in in in suit management with may expose some Category of stuff at risk and this is one of the biggest challenge Challenging we are facing now in the curvy 19 response in Syria Whereas the national colleagues are taking the big part of the response which is putting Their safety at risk also we know and we can see there is a lot of Concern related to the quality of the programming reporting and accountability, etc. So what we are trying to do is To be sure first of all our priority our national colleagues are are protected and safe and they have all Equipment they need to protect their cells in this situation and also trying to help them to find a new modalities work modalities to Minimize the exposure themselves to the risk and also a Following up in a daily basis to be sure what they are doing and and to be sure There is effectiveness and quality of their programming and providing them assistance We are developing a lot of Using the technology to develop online training programming to improve their quality in the field and the second one is So we this We have less movement in the field. So we are being presented with a demand from authority to accept some degree of control to Deliver assistance for some areas and and deep prioritize some activities Which is we know if we refuse The of the authority controls or the army group will lead to rejection of all our activities. So We we have to do an internal exercise inside the protection cluster to see What's the priority? What also can be done and what's the acceptance from the authority? There isn't an intensive negotiation with the authority. Well, if you want us to provide one two three You also you have to allow us to provide a certain activities So it's an ongoing discussion negotiation, but it's absolutely not easy We have to accept some certain Demand from the authorities, but in the same time to be sure also And our principles like humanity and protection principles are in our response Thank you Great. Thanks. Yesen and picking up on on principles. I'd like to turn to pilar How do you see the role of humanitarian principles when faced with dilemmas of access and protection? over to pilar So when it comes to negotiating accents access for humanitarian protection activities What i've seen many times is that the issue is not one of compromises on humanitarian principles But mostly the dilemma that many organizations face is not linked to The principal response but to be able to carry out the protection side of mandates while maintaining access to populations in need And this is something that Jason has touched on before So there's a perception of many organizations that the sensitivity of the protection work may compromise access of humanitarian access access to the field Sometimes the decisions are made to negotiate access only on the basis of assistance provisions Something that is perceived as an incentive for states and non-statem groups So what is approach mainly that first is some openings. It may also hinder the future ability of humanitarian organizations to conduct An experience has shown that trying to enlarge the range of activities that our humanitarian organization Offers at the latest page to include protection work It's not only unsuccessful, but also sometimes it's met with distress but by both state and non-state access so it does make sense that Organizations are seem to be covering up or not being honest about the whole scope of the work they carry out in exact context now having said that I would not say that adherence to humanitarian principle and those pins all efforts to establish and maintain humanitarian access uh, so when dealing with access constraints related to protection activities the dilemmas that often we face in relation to protection relate to their working modalities of humanitarian organizations And and my colleagues have also mentioned some of those. So those those working modalities sometimes so the compromises that we have to make are really linked to the way in which we carry out the protection work and that may be Uh, for instance restriction of access to certain population But no others in ability to speak directly with affected people as it has been said for some context One of access to populations instead of regular monitoring visits Um, and and so on so This means that often humanitarian organizations feel they have to wait in a time principle versus their people interest Create intention between the short and the long-term goals and and often we we see how the compromises between doing today may hinder the capacity of an organization to operate tomorrow And therefore the need to remain consistent and preserve in everyone's trust So when the exceptions are being made and and maria spoke to that We should think that principle should continue to guide the decision-making And and see how we can lessen the potential impact and It's a little bit of of the logic behind the principles That helps to draw red lines. So what are the red lines that we shouldn't cross even when we're making exceptions? and The later states showing consistency and predictability while always adapting to the situation we have at hand and the context Now there are certain issues that may affect the perception of humanitarian organizations and the respect of humanitarian principles certain protection activities, for instance, public advocacy can Be perceived as compromising neutrality for instance and therefore having a later impact on access So that is why also certain organizations such as the SRC avoid engaging in political or ideological controversies while at the same time noting that Not speaking out or not Really making clear what are the protection issues publicly may be interpreted as Organizations being complicit with what's happening in certain contexts And I live there Okay, great. Thank you. Pilar. I'd like to now turn to sophie One approach to access negotiations is that you have a phased approach. We've heard a little bit about this And you lead with things like food assistance non food items, etc And then bring in protection later on are there Concrete examples of this approach working Do you have an example of it not working? What are some of the risks of such a phased approach over to you sophie? Thank you. Yes. So as you mentioned is like one of the approach So of course like when we're doing negotiation, we will start from like a broader like negotiation We will like reiterate the legal framework We'll mention that the the different authorities have an obligation to a low and facilitated access And we will try to negotiate access like for all kind of humanitarian activities Including protection But the reality on the ground is sometimes different as we have heard from the different all the panelists So what we're looking at when we're doing a phased approach is really like looking at acceptance And I think yes in was really like mentioning this term as a key element for like putting in place programs and acceptance would require to have like this in depth analysis of the community The local authorities and trying to understand like how we can gain acceptance with the community And what kind of actors have more access than others? We can see in certain contexts that local actors would have more access than international NGOs or UN agencies So it's really trying to identify Who has a comparative advantage with which kind of program to start like negotiating access and trying to like Then expand access and what we have observed is a certain program are easier to negotiate And if we are looking at health if we are looking at like food distribution or nfi Generally like it's an easier entry point to like discuss with the community And to engage in discussion that would lead to like additional programming in in the future And we've seen that in a in a lot of context if we are looking at northwest southwest cameroon right now Like food distribution would be the entry point to enter into the community and then like Humane actors would be able to stay in the community and then expand their footprint and then like implement other activities The risk is that like protection programming or protection activity would be like a second thought So when we're like doing this kind of activities even if we're doing like food distribution nfi We are making sure that there is always a protection outcome in this activity So protection is never like a second thought it's already embedded in the other kind of activities And after we're doing like a Food distribution for example, we're contributing to the safety of livelihoods of the people and contributing to protection outcome So the idea is really like to make sure that while we are not maybe starting with protection programming because this would require Much more acceptance much more understanding from the community and the local authorities We can start with other activities that would be like easier to be accepted by the community and Local authorities but making sure that protection outcomes are always included in these other activities Got it. Thank you. Sophie and as a quick follow-up. Um, just what about including mainstreaming protection activities or including some protection activities in the assistance activities that are at the center of access negotiations does this work and again Are there any risks that you see with with this approach back to you? Yeah, I think it's it's going back to this idea of like having protection outcome to any kind of activities And I think that's the way that we are like promoting protection When we're like negotiating access in area where it's extremely complicated extremely challenging because the authorities or the community Are a bit reluctant to see like protection activity mainly because of a misunderstanding of what would be like protection programming So really like the idea is to ensure that we can have like activities that would include Protection outcome and if we're doing like education activities, there is a child protection outcome If we're like doing food distribution this can goes together with also like protection activities And when we're doing needs assessment we can do like needs assessment For food security and include some protection questions in the questionnaire So the idea would be really like to make sure that this protection If not protection programming like as an activity and that the the purpose of the negotiation would be included In in the other activities and we have seen it as like a successful approach to to protection That the fact that we are like starting with Program that would be accepted by the community that there will be a trust in the organization a trust in the human agent assistance Then we are able to like start this approach of protection and we can start like already like included some kind of protection activities of protection questions some protection focus group discussion as part of other activities Okay, thank you and um at this point So as we've received a lot of questions related specifically to the context of COVID-19 pandemic, I would like to stay with you for one more question Sophie as we transition to looking at In your case as you're looking at access globally What do you see at this stage in terms of the effects of the pandemic on access? Some of the highlights back to you Sophie Um, so if we're looking at COVID-19 and the impact on human access, I think like we have like two trends The first one is actually like amplification of existing access constraints and what we do see Is that in all the countries where we already have pre-existing access constraints? These have been amplified by the crisis. So if we had like bureaucratic impediment the bureaucratic impediment had even like A more important impact on on humanitarian access now that we have like the the pandemic And I'm sure colleagues in Syria and Yemen would clearly be able to to highlight this So we can see that the pre-existing access constraints like related to conflict or related to function For instance, I've been really amplified by the COVID-19 crisis And then we see like new and emerging access constraints that are related to the public health measures that have been put in place by So we can clearly see like the restriction of movement of goods and personnel into the countries because of the flight suspension because of The quarantine because of the border closure So there are a lot of challenges about the restriction of movement into the country And of course also a lot of restriction of movement within the country. There are some Public health measures that have been put in place that prevent A movement within the country that challenge the movement of humanitarian goods and humanitarian personnel So that's also like another constraint. We see also like A growing anti-foreigner sentiment that Translates into threats or threat of violence against humanitarian actors that we are monitoring closely because this is unfortunately quite symptomatic of A pandemic or like an outbreak where we see these violence against humanitarian personnel So we are like paying attention to that because this would undermine our capacity to respond to to the pandemic And finally and probably like the most important is the capacity of the people in need to have access To humanitarian assistance and basic social services Because of the new public health measure put in place because of the stay at home orders or because of The new like social distancing measure That really challenged the capacity of humanitarian actors to deliver And the capacity of the population to have access to these services And this is something that we are like closely monitoring Because indeed it would be like extremely challenging in the coming months To put in place like protection programming and protection monitoring when movements are significantly restrained And there will be like a need to rely much more on the community And to like focus much more like on this localization agenda to make sure that we can continue to deliver and people have access To the humanitarian services and protection services that we used to deliver in the past Great. Thank you so much. Sophie. We've had a number of questions now coming in From natasha in the u.s. From saffi and others Regarding protection monitoring and related issues. I'll just read the question from natasha She writes how are protection actors adapting to the complexities and competing needs posed by kovid in terms of provision of protection services And protection monitoring Which protection related activities are still being conducted while promoting social distancing? Yes, scene If I could turn to you, what is the situation currently looking like in syria in terms of access and protection activities? And at this point feel free Please do bring in current examples really specifically Related to this new context as we're now Several months into the global pandemic over to you. Yes, scene Well, uh, it's not easy looking for the protection cluster response Is it's mainly depending in the community center and community based approach, which is we have Just to give you an example. We have 450 community center Charges from the space women's spaces across syria and these centers usually Used to provide a lot of protection or multi protection services. You can imagine that 450 community center are The activities in these centers are suspended now And also one of the biggest activities we used to have is it's the mobile protection, which is we have this over 150 mobile protection team They are working in hard to reach area in an area where we have a new placement or term need tried to understand their protection needs And also humanitarian needs and also do First aid or quick protection response. It's also that being suspended for and hold So we have over six over overall over 11.5 million of people being affected directly by the COVID-19 situation in Syria because All our humanitarian or our movement for the humanitarian community have been stopped because of the Restriction is movement for the humanitarian community, etc But the added value in in the syrian context the remote management context is not in use for us We have been dealing with with the syria in the remote context perspective in the last 10 years So we we have we developed in the last these 10 years we developed a lot of A program modalities. We are able to provide assistance through technology, so we are relying a lot lately on on social media like what's up the group telephone to do A psychosocial support individual psychosocial support to identify and refer cases and also to do Case management at certain level, but also we are developing a lot of standard Operation procedure and the guidance also to ensure a specific protection issue like protection of data privacy, etc, etc One of the things being mentioned also before we are lucky in syria when it's come to localization We have over 120 protection partners in in syria and the majority of them are national partners therefore like A lot of activities in in hard to reach area Continue a little bit like at at partially because our protection partner are working In in deep field area So for the protection cluster now we we are transferring knowledge and resources and more uh Doing advocacy to for our local partners to get more funding to Because they already have access and they can provide Better active better activities dignified assistance better than any other Better than me better than the foreigner basically it's their confidence their context We also realize um That people Are at the central of the response they usually know much better than us What's the need and how to respond? This is why we are also emphasizing an empowering community member To take more leads and response Within their community. We have seen there is a lot of initiatives Have been in the last three weeks like a volunteer going around cleaning the camps Collective shelter helping elderly to have to see the doctor or to buy a medicine Doing like a third community inside collective and cams to protect women and children So we we we we basically supporting these initiatives from the community But we also giving them more resources like Protective material to protect themselves And also providing them a lot of guidance how to ensure the the protection principles and finally is um Is we are reaching or we are achieving protection basically through others And this is when it comes to ensure That protection are mainstreamed in other sectors where where they have Much better access than up where the authority will allow the world's health or shelter actors to to go and provide assistance with no With no question where we where the protection activities be prioritized by authority So we're trying to achieve the protection Objective as since we say protection is an objective. So we are trying to achieve it through other our other partners to to be sure that assistance is Is Dignified and everybody have access to these assistance where action is not will not harm vulnerable communities And we emphasize a lot in case management, especially there are a lot of protection concerns related to women and children in quarantine and isolation facilities So we are training working also together with other partners like health uh health and more school is training The front line health stuff to do first aid psychosocial support and also to identify protection cases Need urgent support and they can refer it to us for follow-up to to do a case management and provide support So these examples what we are going to overcome The access challenges interior right now Thank you very much Yassine and Maria if I could turn to you. How about the current situation in Yemen over to Maria Thanks very much. So I guess in Yemen Getting the basics right for access first is absolutely critical I mean Yassine talked about earlier new modalities and measures So how we do general food distribution How we do hygiene promotion, etc Has has changed and The first thing to make sure we maintain the trust of communities and the trust of authorities As well as protecting our beneficiaries and our staff to exposure Is to make sure we do those so keep those covered measures in place and this pandemic We're going to see this the months. We all know that so maintaining staff training Maintaining the communication to communities on on what we do and the measures we're taking will be critical to maintaining the trust And also to keep ahead of that anti NGO sentiment that Sophie Sophie mentioned If we can make sure that any exceptions or exemptions to operations to be able to continue essential services We are protecting Protecting our reputation our staff and our beneficiaries Also monitoring directives that are coming left right and center is always a fun job in Yemen and it's heightened now As Sophie also mentioned, so they're being released by Also by different factions That is something to really watch as an access person because how we're always we're always trying to Ensure that we don't over empower certain actors that we maintain our links with civilian authorities as the default And so making sure particularly in the south of Yemen right now where there is a kind of unimplemented peace agreement And you know different factions are jumping on this emergency responses It's often the case to show political will to control resources and NGOs have to be very careful about how we listen to those directives And to monitor the practices because obviously Their ability to implement them is different to their ability to announce them and release them On the access and protection overlay Explicitly, I think is in Yemen. We have to this is an opportunity We have to watch that we protect protection basically. I mean for those of us that have worked in Yemen. We know that any protection related activities Including, you know, legal services are hard fought for to be approved And as we jump on great opportunities for exemptions to allow COVID related activities without, you know, normal protracted approval processes We may be jumping on those being really excited that we can go without a project approval by a ministry But also knowing that by reprogramming those lines or by accepting the Authority's definition of COVID related. We might be losing the small window This is the hard fought opportunity we had for legal services the child protection For other standalone protection activities and that is going to be crucial for us to watch And to balance how we capitalize on on those opportunities and how we package protection Now during the COVID response as well as As well as post COVID, but you know, there are also Great opportunities. I mean we've talked a lot about already today how protection has often taken the most trust and community acceptance To build to implement protection programming and so therefore You know, maintaining the community engagement using which protection based community networks to to do awareness activities to do rumor management around a pandemic that has a lot of Conspiracy theories and a lot of unknowns And a lot of contradictory information out there Another opportunity is to to look at how are we doing vulnerability mapping and they're always, you know We know there are specific vulnerabilities to COVID So how do we use our protection teams and our protection networks to to update those vulnerability mapping? And how do we mainstream or how do we use our protection teams to work with ccm teams or with wash teams to To create ideas and initiatives like these green zones where instead of looking at quarantine insights We're looking at protecting vulnerable people. So I think there are also lots of opportunities We just I don't think we should look at it as let's look at protection What we need to do in six months time we otherwise that window will close for what we can do now and what we can do then over to you Got it. Thanks a lot and to Jason if we could hear a bit from you about The context where you're working In greece, but in response to the same question including related to protection monitoring But also protection services in in the current context over to you jason Okay, um, I I think that No, a lot of the questions that were coming were how do we learn lessons from the the past and one of the things that we that that I personally used right when the Pandemic was announced and uh, all the measures started being put in place and you know, grease is not a complex zone although There are some difficult Very very difficult and harrowing situation on the islands where there are camps and reception centers overcrowded and a lot of our partners Were in staff wanted to You know follow the instructions rightly so and the health instructions and also wanted to Kind of go to their homes and find ways to to stay away from the work And the first thing was to learn lessons or draw from the past and to To say to a very large group that you know, if we found a way to to stay and deliver as humanitarians in Ebola epidemic in uh in west africa in in 20 I think it was 2015 or to be able to deliver safely in besieged areas in syria Then we can find a way to stay and deliver but in a safe In a safe way for ourselves and for the persons that we're trying to support and so that I think Learning just having those experiences and difficult experiences to reflect on one encourages A colleague to to stick around right now What what we have the situation in these? centers In the agn islands we have about a total across five camps about 35 000 persons in a space cumulative for 5 000 people So you can imagine that any restrictions when we're announcing to individuals To wash your hands and to social distance when they don't or to go and seek medical support when there's insufficient water insufficient hygiene and sanitation and Very complex overcrowding there This is just not doable and not feasible and we along with the humanitarian actors and civil society have been calling for an urgent decongestion of these camps and bringing the Overcrowding to the mainland and that has been delayed with the corona virus What we and it's really a protection intervention Is have been able to do is to highlight? Using our vulnerability analysis and population assessments to identify those who are most at risk of Developing complications due to corona virus so that would be the elderly and As well as the immune suppressed and these persons are already generally on our on our listing of What we look out for in terms of a humanitarian protection and support in that population which Them and their families make up almost 10 percent of the total population We're now in the process of a large-scale evacuation and transfer of that population to other locations on islands or onto the mainland and what that requires is It's not we can't be done remotely some of it can be done in assessing the data and Arranging for planes and boats and cars for them to go But so much of it has to be done safely and in place. So what we've done is Just a very good luckily and fortunately we did a pretty good business continuity planning before this and we're able to rely on on that Now of knowing what is critical and not And review essentially every action that we plan that relates to to our activities And see what can be done in a safe manner and what can be done In a safe manner face-to-face what kind of protective protective equipment is needed for individuals That we're trying to support as well as our own humanitarian staff and what And what can be done remotely and what are the drawbacks to that and and this is how we're Applying it. So we're able to let's say it's obviously to stand deliver and In a safe manner. There's definitely some efficiency losses losses, but the critical areas We are able to to be there in a safe manner In as much as possible Thank you very much Jason Just a quick note. We've come to the end of our scheduled time But thanks to the great generosity of our panelists, we are going to continue for another 10 minutes or so so we can continue to cover some of the questions that have come in I hope that you're all able to stay with us. Otherwise, you will be able to access the recording of the event afterwards So I'd like to turn next to Pilar So we've heard now from Jason from others about this idea of learning from the past I'd like to take the opportunity to just bring in a few questions we've had from participants On this and also some related issues. So we had a question from Anne asking Is is the new COVID-19 situation really new? Didn't we didn't we learn applicable lessons from Ebola? We heard a bit about this from Jason But Pilar would be great to have your reflections as well on how we can learn from the past Especially when it comes to access and protection and if I could I will just add on another concept that possibly you can reflect on a bit Pilar in your response and that's related to this idea of The perception that that COVID-19 is brought in by foreigners and how this can play into Kind of negative propaganda associated with humanitarian work and that can really affect affect access and affect the The protection work of of humanitarian organizations These are all some related some related issues the questions coming in from Niriwa in South Sudan, Buntea in Cambodia Pilar if I could turn to you for reflections on this idea of learning from the past perhaps the example of Ebola and this tricky problem of negative perceptions of humanitarian work in such a tricky Over to you Pilar Thank you. So yes, we can learn lessons Maybe no The situation is not the same as in the world. I think that the scale and scope of the of the problem and of the pandemic is very different and the fact that We are actually Seeing also gradual spread and and and and the fact that we are not seeing any I mean Ebola. We have had this problem before and there have been situations in which we have been able to control the Disease is not the the case right now So I think this this time is very challenging in the sense that we were not prepared to a situation in which This scale and scope Will present physical access and and have potential and and that our access actually as humanitarian organizations Could have harmful effects on people and that we have to take into account and this links also to the fact that there's the the fact that the The Western European countries have been affected first and that many organizations are linked to this region Have a perception in different countries of foreigners that are traveling are carrying this disease and that may Be bringing that to the country. So the the situation in which we're operating I think it's it's slightly different from the one in ebola yet I think that there's certain things that obviously we can learn from that situation I think one of the things that is important is not to forget that There's certain legal frameworks that continue to provide provide crucial safe parts and that we should draw on those For for many different Protection activities that we may undertake Um, and that there are many activities that reason says that could be done even remotely As well and that we have done that in the past So I think that protection monitoring is so possible in many in many contexts. We still receive information From many contexts. I think that obviously there are certain There as it was said before I mean if you had problem access problems Before the crisis these will be amplified, but we have worked Constantly whether with partial access or no access in many different contexts and we have adapted to that situation by Finding different strategies. Obviously, I think that connection with communities Is difficult these days and and we and trying to find ways in which we can engage the communities to support them this In this pandemic is not going to be possible if we didn't have contacts before So I think that this the the main constraints that we may have is actually reach populations that we haven't had contacts before I think we have some constraints regarding the amount of information that is being circulated. We have We're speaking about infodemic. There's a lot of information. I miss information trust Is a global issue not only because of the stigma of the disease But also because no one understands anymore given the amount of information and contradicts with friends how What is the information issue? so these things we we have to factor in day and we have to adapt and I think that Yes, some of the lessons from the bullet can be applied to this situation But there are many things that require a new and creative solution And I think that as we go forward we are trying to find those solutions that We're still very early on to provide any lessons for any very good practices Great. Thank you so much Pilar and Sophie, could I ask you also to come in on these issues of learning from the past? Etc. Over to you Sophie Yeah, sure So I think the scope and the scale of like the the pandemic is unprecedented So it's very hard like to really like look at what has been done in the past and trying to use this To to respond now. However, if we're looking at certain issues We see certain issues. We have already like seen in other contexts such as like the ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014 or in DRC last year or an ongoing and and even the cholera outbreak in Yemen So I think one element that has already been mentioned is really This anti-foreigner sentiment and the management of rumor So I think like from the very onset of the crisis There was like a huge effort on risk communication and community engagement to make sure that we can mitigate this From the very beginning and to make sure that we don't reach a situation where humanitarian actors cannot really implement Preparedness of response activity in the context of the covid-19 because of this anti-foreigner anti-humanitarian actors Sentiment so I think the management of the rumor is something that was in everybody's mind And that was really like part of the the first activities that have been put in place I think what we're also looking at is Making sure that Any activities or any measures that we agreed on at this stage of the response will not undermine our capacity to have access in the future And I'm really like much looking at some aspects for example in some countries where the militarization of the response Has really challenged our capacity as humanitarian actors to continue activity So if we're looking at DRC where the use of armed escort Has been One of the way to respond to the Ebola outbreak in certain area This was creating a precedent that the humanitarian community was reluctant to go because they were not considering it as the last result and they were really Worried about the fact that there is no extra exit strategy to the use of armed escort So I think what we can learn from the past is also making sure that everything that we're doing now will not have consequences On our capacity to continue to have a principal response In the future what we're also looking at is especially in the context of the covid-19 is the closure of schools and we know like from the past that Schools are not only a place where students have access to education But also a place where people have access to like food security to child protection And we know also that the fact that the closure of school like will have ripping effect on children With the additional risk of abuse additional risk of maybe Being recruited by armed groups and so on so I think that's something that we're also like very much looking at knowing that This has been already the case in area where schools have been closed not necessarily because of a public health crisis or not necessarily because of an outbreak But this is something that we can already like really look at and make sure that we can find some mitigation Merger from the very beginning and I think As Pilar mentioned, it's very hard right now to really like draw the lessons and trying to identify like best practices because The situation is so fast evolving That you may turn the actors are really like in a very like reactive mode But at the same time like trying to be proactive trying to be prepared trying to look at what has been working in all the context And trying to adjust to the situation But it's something that is like very much evolving and I think Like the main recommendation is to ensure that like best practices from one country to another can be shared and that People are using community of practices to make sure that when we see like a good practice We're trying to like share this experience with all the country offices Thank you so much. Um, we have time for just one more question. This is a question coming in from samantha Um, we've mainly been talking about covet 19 as creating new access constraints But there are ways, uh, but are there ways in certain situations in which this can even be an opportunity for Extending access a very interesting question cement that jason if I could turn to you for your views on this Sure, thanks. Well, I already mentioned the fact that we're doing these Evacuations of some specific person. So we're getting some head Headwind on on moving a large number of persons out of these camps That had been ripe for an outbreak. They'd had a meningitis outbreak in in the camps In one of the camps two weeks before the covet pandemic In addition because of the nature of the virus that it That it doesn't discriminate against Uh, uh anyone that anyone can be Impacted these are allowing for overcoming some level of, uh, let's say public misunderstanding of of serving making the situation better in these centers or and also, uh, It has opened doors for some european solidarity that has been pending for sometimes So some examples are in these camps. We are able now to replace and expand A lot of the water sanitation and hygiene infrastructure Which had been on hold Or held up for a long time. So in the name of of coronavirus in the name of Reducing or doing some prevention work and reducing the exposure which in the end These aren't closed camps or they're they're they're uh, they're stay at home and shelter in place So there's a soft quarantine there now, but They're not closed camps. So any the exposure there would expose also the locals on the islands In addition, we have been pushing for many multiple years now the to restart the relocation of individuals, uh That arrive in Greece and the solidarity and burden sharing amongst other european countries And while this has not picked up yet for A larger number of person it did pick up for unaccompanied children somehow The the the message of the 5 000 unaccompanied children living in Greece That are asylum seekers and refugees Uh had already been an important measure But then because of the coronavirus because of their conditions A few member states of europe decided to Uh pick up and call for with the civil society really pressuring government actors to do something about this And now we've made some progress with some relocations that have not occurred for years Now within a week's time in order to quote unquote save These families and children from this pandemic. We've had relocations to luxembourg and germany And we are hopeful that there will be uh, these will these pilots will turn into large-scale opportunities Great. Thank you so much for that jason. Um, now we're we're just wrapping things up here I would like to turn as promised to william chimali with the global protection cluster I hope you're still on the line with us william even though that we're running a bit late It would be great to hear from you briefly Just your reflections on on this discussion of the last hour and a half What were some of the key points that stood out to you over to you william? Thanks a lot And thanks for behap for an nrc for for this a great discussion quite timely I would like to acknowledge the vibrant discussion by the by the participants in the chat box and the sharing of tools and and reports As well. I think it's a it's great to see the the cross Communication across the sound what we're presenting in the panel and and the sideline That's that's great So I think the the conversation feeds Straight into some key challenges. We're facing in the national protection clusters And we think you have seen highlighted many of them But also in the global protection cluster and colleagues from on cha and pilar And others who are on the advisory group of the gpc where it's a real time wrestling with these challenges So I have four points that that stood up for me. I think first Highlighting the point from from maria and sofi that access is not only about us getting services to people but people getting to services Especially in cases not through us at all from people to people and through local communities and organizations I think that's an important Reminder an important fact an extremely timing timely notion in the time of of covid That I would like to reiterate but also to say that the notion from from jason as well as sofi that We look at we think of access as a geographic issue and And of course the measures taken for covid have severe impact on on physical access But also when we do have access to communities, are we able to access the most vulnerable people and And it's in this context with covid just another layer of of challenging us to access From a protection perspective the individuals and the communities that need more presence from from a humanitarian This so the second point is that that came across very clearly that Accessing for complex protection issues is harder than accessing for concrete material aid And that's true complex protection issues require trust with the community built in impartiality Etc and it was great to hear from all the Speakers especially pilare and yassim Kind of for guiding Questions we have to ask ourselves when we're negotiating these access so First is it a good deal for the community we're trying to serve and second we We need to weigh in what to mitigate in the process of negotiation and compromise But then third and fourth I think are really powerful thoughts first the third element that came across is What's the longer term of the decisions and the compromises that we're making now? And the fourth is how is my Compromise as one organization affecting access of other organizations, and I think in in space like covid 19 when we have Sometimes competition between organizations to access The tendency sometimes to compromise is easier and if we're guided by Not our agency's access, but the wider access as a as a guiding principle I think we make sounder decisions that can last for for longer The third point that stood up is I guess some of the thoughts specifically related to covid response Uh, and here a number of Of maybe Guidance for us in the field came out That are important first is Localization and communication with community and working with networks has always been on our radar Uh, especially strengthen through through the grand bargain and the whole process there But now we're we're in reality seeing that operations like you've seen mentioned and and pillar Partners that have invested in networks and organizations who have presence in their community Are the ones who are able to to adapt their programs? The individual case management To be run remotely and through these communities So I'm wondering if if this is I mean, this is clearly the most important currency for for protection delivery and service delivery network on the ground Communication with community has been professionalized over the last years with botcha and partners like unisf and unicr and icrc Through the ifrc network I think we need to move we take it to a next layer. We need to Learn from what's happening and invest in really building up National protection networks that are able To continue delivering in contexts like this and I think now is the right momentum and time to shape Shape this going forward Uh And finally for protection access in covet 19. I really value the input from sofi Pilar and maria That delivering protection is a phased process delivering food is already protection delivery Uh, but in a staged approach and I think the more we can build in this logic of Incrementally using our access to tackle the hardest issues to to deal with the of protection nature The best Possibilities we have to do so. So instead of protection actors Seeking access. I think Only I think building up networks with partners who have access and maybe not do not have protection Expertise to evolve their programs in in this direction And finally, I would like to to to close with Pilar reminding us of the importance of international humanitarian law We have a rock. We have to remind everyone that this rock exists and not forget it because this is a steady space and When we're faced with challenges of access and challenges Of the nature of uh, covered protection principles as well are another rock, uh, to to to lean on and As jason said, we have to prepare. Well, uh, react during the process and learn after it and I think that's a Simple logic that also applies in this context I close here unheard and over back to you Wonderful. Thank you so much, william. That was tremendously helpful and we very much appreciate Uh, your being here and also, uh, the support of yourself and and other colleagues within the gpc for making this event possible So thanks so much. Um, now, uh, we're going to go Very quickly right around this virtual table here to, um, the rest of our our panelists for for their brief Closing remarks that will turn first to pilar if you're still on the line pilar over to you Thank you so much just maybe to to remind everyone that it's a health crisis now, but, um, we as with any humanitarian crisis It can very quickly turn into a protection one Uh, in many countries there is already a crisis ongoing and this Super poses to the situation, uh on the ground. So let's not forget that, um The protection aspect of the response access negotiations should include the capacity of humanitarian access Access to weight on the impact for instance of of measures being taken today by by the different states on COVID-19 situation While also acknowledging the difficulties of many authorities to respond to this situation And the fact that we at humanitarian actors have to see our best frame Our response to also support them in this in this endeavour because Um, we've heard a lot about the handicaps and and and the constraints being put forward But I think that these situations has also opened up A lot of requests for us for guidance on the side of of different authorities. Thank you Thanks pilar and thanks so much for taking the time to Work with us today on this discussion very much appreciated And now to Yasin if we could turn to you for your final thoughts Yes, I just remind ourselves that Protection is fundamentally about people They know their needs. They know how to protect themselves And this is why we have to do what why we have to empower them especially now in in the in the COVID context Where we don't have access So we need to do whatever to do to empower these communities provide them with whatever they need to improve their capacity scale to the source To be able to respond to the needs of their community and also to remind everybody that protection is not one organization Responsibility All the humanitarian agencies have responsibility and are accountable to ensure that people are saved from harm so this is why We cannot be the protection partner or just Advocating for protection and also ensuring that protection in the First item the agenda Because there's a lot of conflicting In the agenda of the access so protection has to be there and we all have to push for that To ensure that the most vulnerable is It's there and it's also just to to to confirm that Yes, it's a health public problem issue, but also We are there because We are there to respond to the needs of The affected population the people who are already vulnerable. So let's not and this is my concern. What's how I see some response in the field everything is about health but And and we are In somehow forgetting about the most vulnerable who will become more and more and more vulnerable. So they have to be at the heart of our response In the Thank you very much for having me Thank you. Yes, scene. Thanks for your for your insights today sharing your experiences and all the best With your work in the syria context. I'd like to turn now to maria for your brief closing comments Thanks very much. I mean, it's so hard to choose what to say, but I think that to be very concrete What I would like to share is to use covid as a catalyst, you know, let's do the simple things better Community acceptance being the one area I'd like to flag in the community engagement I mean from an actor's point of view We are going to lose some type of presence Whether it's shifting operations to focus on particular geographic areas or particular sectors Or a complete reduction in presence in the field The communities we work with are going to see changes and we really need to use this opportunity to Create community engagement systems or reinforce what we have existing We need to make sure we're proactive and transparent about what they can expect from us now And also, you know in the near future as much as we can predict but maintain expectations And this will be absolutely crucial to not only Identifying programmatic responses and and things that we can do throughout the response. Maybe, you know negotiating for ad hoc one-off Trips to the field to fix things But also it will be crucial to scaling that up But they need to know that we are not going anywhere And that is something that I think we all need to Use covid to put that in place or reinforce it and then not forget it not drop the ball afterwards. Let's maintain that Terrific. Thank you, Maria. Thanks for Also taking the time to to share with us today and all the best with your work I'm turning to Jason now for your brief closing comments Sure, and that would be to Just as we are I think trying to keep an eye on the post covid situation And while we should take advantage of and think of how we can take the positives Forward and sustain them also think about the systems that we are adapting And making work so that they can work in a more restrictive environment and being ready to Let's say unwind those where they are could be problematic and could encourage a more restrictive environment For the future are the High Commissioner for refugees just sent out a press release today that 167 countries Have a partially or fully closed their borders and 57 are not countries are not making An opportunity available for those seeking asylum So we are monitoring locally and each of us should what we are doing to to make sure that We can go back build upon the good and and go back to to normal and not let make things permanent where they shouldn't be Thanks Very important point. Thank you Jason and thanks you also for your time today Last but certainly not least Sophie back to you for your brief closing comments Thank you. So I think today we were clearly seen that protection and access our shared responsibility So I think I would just like to reiterate the need to work together to achieve collective image and outcomes while ensuring The respect for the rights and dignity of individuals And I think this is crucial if you want to answer like to the kovid-19 outbreak in an efficient and principle manner And keeping in mind that we are there like for the community for the people and that our primary objective is to respond to their needs Thank you Thank you. So fee terrific to have you with us That's it for our event today. I really appreciate everyone who is able to stay it turned out to be About half an hour longer than expected, but there was so much to discuss As I mentioned, we will have a recording of today's event both in video and audio only podcast format That will be available on the event page in the coming days Also, as mentioned, we'll be continuing this discussion in the online community Including posting speakers responses to some of the questions that we didn't get to address Live in the event. So that will be a great opportunity, hopefully for all of you to carry forward this important discussion Those of you who already indicated in your registration for today's event that you were interested in Hearing more from php. You should have already received an email With access to the community with your login link If you did not receive an account, but you're interested in in being part of the conversation on the community You can just contact us At php and we'll be happy to send you the login details Finally as mentioned, there will be several more webinars in this series in collaboration with nrc on access and protection there will be more information about that coming out soon and Yeah, in which Among other things and those events will be getting into additional practical questions regarding access and protection In the context of the covet pandemic So I know there were a number of questions that we want to dig deeper into regarding the current context And we'll be able to do that In this series of the next upcoming three events with nrc So with that a big thank you to everyone both panelists and participants for a very interesting discussion As well as to nrc colleagues and the php team working behind the scenes to make this all Possible also to thank again the gpc global protection cluster for their support as well as the financial support from usaid Thanks everyone. This is an hered lang signing off from geneva