Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Diodeboff. As in recent years, we are structuring this boff first in a short presentation of who we are and what we do, and then it will turn into an ask us anything questions and answers style. And even in the first part, if you have any questions to the specific things you are presenting, please ask. And look up who will be the first part of the presentation. Look up. So the team consists of ten members. We were nine just a few days ago. We managed three after two. One more. I feel badly for him. Thank you. So his focus will continue to be managing abilities, but now he will be able to do all of it, not just part of it. So in the room, we have Zobel, Weasel, Elk LaFauze, Habs, J.Cristal, and Zubi. And then, Paribol. Did I miss anyone? We've finished introducing. So if you haven't managed to connect a phase to a name until now, that's who we are, eight of us are here. So what do we do? We handle the core infrastructure of the project. That means users and accounts as you're familiar with, the machines that we have around the world, coordinating the hosting and service providers. We used to just have hosting providers, now we have service providers as well. Operating our core services like LDAP and DNS and helping to establish the services that you run.  Several years ago, we began the process of developing five-year plans. The intent was to refresh those every year. We haven't refreshed them every year, but we will this year again. But in 2012 and again this year, we enforced, we developed a set of principles by which we wanted to operate Devian's core infrastructure. So Devian's core infrastructure is delivered primarily on the AMD64 hardware. And primarily at six, seven, eight, depending on who you count as being included through locations. So our objective is to make those services as redundant as possible, both globally and locally within the data center. So some things lend themselves well to that. The static mirror websites, for example, lend themselves very easily to that. DNS service lends itself very easily to that. That's one of the service providers we use, for example. Other than this don't, those things that don't lend themselves to active, active mode, even within a single data center, we still want them to be virtualized so we can bring them back up if we have failed hardware quickly. So they're in an active passive mode or even in an active manual mode, but we can have a half chance of bringing them up rather than attempting to restore them from disk, from an archive. We haven't succeeded in the second principle so much in that we actually grew the number of core data centers. We like to try to reduce those again. Many thanks to ByteMark for their massive donation, but for example as a plus one when it comes to the data centers. We want them to be remotely manageable. I think that's a reasonable expectation. Not all of them are managed in the same way. And not all of them are remotely manageable at all. So we're going to be rounding that up. We don't do a lot of virtual networking per se, but we do some virtual storage on machines, but it'd be nice to complete the virtualization of our core infrastructure so that, well and truly, VMs can be migrated between hardware more painfully and even between data centers one day. As already mentioned, we deliver all of this stuff as much as possible by virtual machines. And the big one, because we're representing lying in the devian's annual budget, is we believe that the core infrastructure needs to be actively life-cycled and under-hardware support. So that either means buying equipment every year or seeking cash donations to a part or seeking hardware donations. But we're not really in the business of accepting random donations or donations of equipment that's antiquated and the business is getting rid of it and thinks that we might want to use it for form. We just have too much equipment now to do about it. So Bymark, just to pick on them, they were extremely generous with recent hardware and it represents a massive increase in devian's assets. And not, for example, something that we need to plan to life-cycle. There's no guarantee that Bymark will be able to duplicate that particular donation and we're going to need to have one day to replace that. So if we look back over the last year, we've operated most of our physical and virtual machines to Jesse. We've been on a bit of an every HDTS everywhere kick. So we spent a lot of energy moving services from HDTS to HDTS. You're probably aware that we're buying commercial certificates for this. Actually, we are taining commercial certificates for this that are kindly donated by Gandhi. And you know that Gandhi has made available certain benefits to devian developers. We started the deployment of an open stack environment to try to facilitate individual BDs standing up for VM. That would be DSA flavored so that as you develop a new service and are ready to migrate it over to a demo machine, it's in the same vein as what we would anticipate for DSA bots. And we've assisted with the development of new services, including SIP for real-time communication. And I mention that because Daniel is here to speak. Looking forward, we need to complete the transition to Jesse for the things that can be transitioned, so things can be what we do our best. We need to deploy a bite mark equivalent data center for geographic redundancy and partner independent. So again, I'm not, I am picking on bite mark, but they're an excellent partner, but we can't be solely dependent on bite mark for the vast majority of our services at this point. The increment is resident at bite mark and is entirely for our use and is a fantastic resource. But we need a second of those. What's the size? What does it mean, bite mark equivalent data center?  So how many blades is that? 12. 16. 16. 16. 16. With several MSA storage arrays. Every blade has between 64 and 128 gigabytes of RAM. Each. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. It's basically what half of a rack of their standard VM infrastructure that they gave to them. Great. And I was several years ago, and we've been living a lot of services there. We need to upgrade the released R-Cardware to data center policies. What I mean by that is some of the myths here is it's not as good as it needs to be in some of the ARM years, not as good as it needs to be from a remote management perspective. When it's up and running, it's building fine, but we'd like it to be a touch more robust if possible. And we need to decommission the deprecated architecture hardware, so that's Spark and IS-64. So as Jesse reaches the one year anniversary, that's going to go away. We would like to work with the mirror app teams to review and approve the VR program in the context of serve records. That's review records. So if you hadn't heard of us talking about that before, that's something we'd like to engage in actively with next year. We'd like to do a better job of handling the various keys that are used to secure our build. So the build V, the secure boot stuff, the archive signing keys, maybe we can get some HSMs and use that. Maybe we can have a dedicated signing machine that is significantly hardened compared to the best, although the rest are still hardened, something along that line. And we should complete the open-stack development over the next year. And we stood up, but it's not in production mode, an XMPP service, and I'm going to mention that because that happened during that time. So you can contact us in a variety of ways. We're on IRC at Debbie and Min. There's a public mailing list, Debbie and Min at lists. If you need to send us private, send them private, you can do that at dsaanddebbian.org. And for anything that's more complicated than can you make an A record, or if you want to keep track of your request, we encourage you to use RT to submit requests by mail. You have to do a little bit of a dance, and that's described in this usage approach. So it's a short presentation and we want to leave the majority of the time for questions and answers. So I'll turn it over to you for questions. No questions at all. So what about the end of the new mailing list? It's not really public. It's got a lot of different types. Are there any plans to make it public in other factories? The part we had already made in public if we have been thus far, we've been remiss. The idea was to make the archives public on a particular date forward, because people that had mail to it previously shouldn't have their stuff exposed. So that's not going to do that. I think, or at least we were supposed to make the archives a master group, and we decided two or three years ago that we would make subscription open to every Devon developer. That's just been implemented yet. So I think the plan is to have like Devon Private subscription with building LDAP, but given that our LDAP infrastructure is in flux and needs some updating anyway, this has plugged on that. So I should have public-ish. So when we could reuse help, which is mostly isolated to what we usually do, because Luca has put a tremendous amount of work into re-implementing the current user, the LDAP, by some sort of Python, a Python library, so we get a better view on the current LDAP.  So if any of you has good Python knowledge, help Luca, we would like... I understood that you... The use of your part that runs on dbdev interval, it consists of two different sets of tracks. One set is what we use to add things to the database. It consists of the mail gateway that you all use to submit, for instance, an edge case. And that part has been rewritten already and should probably be deployed so that we can actually kill off the remaining bugs that are still in it. The second part is the web interface. You can see when you go to dbdev.org, and it's a set of crawl scripts, I think, that sometimes shall out to bash scripts, depending on what you need. And all of that should also be re-implemented in Python, presumably layering on top of the API you already provide for checks of various things. So user-dure-ldap and user-dure-ldap-cgi, the two packages currently use, and the intent is to merge the two to UD. User-dure-ldap is mostly rewritten in UD, and it's written in Python and Django because the intent is to merge in the web interface, and so if you have knowledge of Python and Django, that would be helpful. Will you release the packages as well? Sorry? Will you release the packages as well when stable one day as well? Yeah, that's it. The UD is in git on github, because that's where I was putting stuff, but we couldn't put it in very long. Yeah, it's visible today. To take on Let's Encrypt. Let's Encrypt again. Yes, please sooner, better and possible. Yeah, well, it... I think Let's Encrypt is a great effort, and we will switch to them. I feel badly for an organizational company who will have their revenue stream cut, which is a lovely, very significant advice. Let's Encrypt. Gandhi's been good to us, and so I appreciate what they've done, but that doesn't mean... Well, we would have a choice at that point. Gandhi has offered Debbie and Free Certificates for our services, so we could continue using them more. We could do less Encrypt at the bar. If the measurement is whether or not it's free or not, then we could use either. If the measurement is whether or not we want to support Let's Encrypt from a philosophical perspective, but I don't know if DSA has a strong opinion about the philosophy of Let's Encrypt versus Gandhi. Our philosophy has a lot more to do about HTTPSI data. So in that sense, Let's Encrypt makes HTTPSI data much more feasible. We use that very actively. I think the work required to obtain a certificate will be way lower over Let's Encrypt, and so that just might be the most wishful thinking. Is there anything that you as Debian developers would like to see to happen from all that the DSA should work on which hasn't been done yet? Yeah. Nothing to do. So we are doing a good job. We finally get the job done. There's this one thing where there's a buff about tomorrow's Jenkins-Debian org move, migration, or whatever. Yeah, I think that is well ahead. Well ahead, but people are interested in that might come tomorrow. Do you want to summarize the idea? Move the current Jenkins-Debian that set up to Jenkins-Debian org and have all the jobs run on nodes and on the main Jenkins machine? Yeah. At the moment, I plan to move the current jobs, and I don't, I rather design the jobs so you don't need that UI access to trigger them or something, so I would not use that access. You can do anything on a new Jenkins-Debian. Yeah, so part of the goal is to have more QA happen directly on Debian org infrastructure, and this way we can also not only provide and use AMD 64 machines, but we have also, for instance, now access to PowerPC systems, because IBM has generally given us two PowerAid machines, and so we can spread out testing to more architectures. What's the status of this? Maybe PDAs? I don't think anything on that is blocking on Debian Admin. It's FTP masters and presumably build-demons job to actually get that moving. I've been wanting to have that for years now. Maybe we need to provide some incentives for FTP masters. No, you don't. You do have enough. It's actually going a bit forward. Not very fast, but it's going forward as long as the stuff comes out already. Great. As it seems that we have people from all over the world here, how is the mirror infrastructure working for you, especially in countries or continents like Asia and Africa? I would be interested in that from these eight perspectives. South America as well. And there's Australia, which doesn't have any internet connection. Is it working for you? Or has anyone problems? The status hasn't changed since last year, even though there is a security in Japan. Okay, so Asia would need to improve when it's done. So you're operating the morals as well? We're operating just the security. There is many administrative problems in China. If you want to host a machine in China, last year we talked about buying a new machine and putting it in. And after checking with several data centers, hosted by even those who serve in this trade, the universities, they said that the domain needs to be registered with the government for the program. So they won't host a whole set of machine for you, even if they have the resource for the... So do you need a contract? Not a contract. We need to register with the Chinese government if we want to provide services there. Yes, you need someone to take the liability for if you are serving some, like an IDOT content or something else. Trying to hold our own mirrors in every single place in Europe is something that we can't be good at. So I would really like to see us moving towards using third-party content delivery networks. And several of them have offered to help us with that for both the main FPR as well as security. And then these CDNs might have presence in Australia more part of Asia, South America, Africa. Yeah, and if the metric is tying to first byte delivered, our DNS service is now hosted by three different service providers, so that if a relationship with a particular service provider goes sour, you know, have the other two. And all three have their DNS anycasted. And if you use a content delivery network that is also anycasted, ideally the first time to byte of an NFT, get updated or upgrade should be very fast. It doesn't mean losing control. It means leveraging companies that are willing to support us. But it does mean having a conversation about how it afterwards and the service records and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I think in Asia there would be not only a poor China, but for many other countries whose bandwidth between countries are limited. That is the reason why we have set up a mirror in Japan and in this way it isn't better. Yeah, so when we select a CDN partner... And there is not a CDN partner that can cover Asia well. None? Fastly, not CDN? No. Fastly has Bob's Asia. Fastly has Bob's Asia? They even made a deal with a major SP there. How come I also... How come I... So, we should test... Also it's not true that boundaries between countries are limited. Boundaries... It's not true that boundaries between countries are limited. It's not true that boundaries between countries are limited. There's not... There's not government control, so there's no government control. You may have cross-country traffic, which is bigger bandwidth than inter-country. Inter-ISP traffic problem. I'm going to use your question on taking one machine just in time on the other side for separate dates. I don't have time to do this. Well, actually as far as I am, as George Kennedy for some parts already could do that, but we didn't implement that. I don't think QMU supports continuous migration. So, like turning it off on one side and turning it on the other side is not possible. Yes, you can work so great, but fire livers are probably not. That is like migration. So, you can... That is what migration is like. It's a once-off rather than continuous migration of the brand at the time. That is what like migration is, as far as I... I thought it was... There were some that I'm not sure they've heard, but then George makes a machine that's really slow, because you have a brand that gets that. I'm curious about the open stack step. I don't think I understand why you cannot use very existing energy infrastructure to provide VMs to... I looked into the several front ends for... Start with this. What we want is for developers to be able to create their own VMs and administer them. And we want those VMs probably to be short-lived you know, three months, six months, by default, so that they're useful for developing and not... We don't see them as the place to run services for years. So, what we're going to do is that developer wants a VM just issue an RT ticket within two days. That's what you are going to deliver currently. I mean, why would you... I'm not sure there's a need for front ends. There's no way to get a VM immediately if you have a way to provide them less than a week. Part of the problem is that within our own connection setup, only we have control to stop and start services for VMs to access the console, to access their VGA output, and all of that is necessary if people want to administer their own systems. Also, we may not necessarily want to mix trusted and untrusted VMs in the same way as correct. I made progress yesterday with Thomas working on OpenStack. I hope that we'll continue the next weeks because I'm leaving today with no more direct live debugging together with Thomas here at .com but I think we are making progress in a way that we can set up the Kilo release It's about the point but I would also like to see how OpenStack works for us as the VMs. Also, while asking for a VM may be just a ticket for you, it's still an hour or two of work for us and if these request one every week or more then it just doesn't scale. Questions? Are you still looking for more help? Are you still looking for more help? Always. That's not me volunteering it's a trigger you to tell everybody else you're looking for more help. Well, certainly I'm looking for help on UD so somebody with Python and Django experience can help kick-strike that well. Also, if we have experienced puppets users, administrators patches to our puppets repository which is public are always welcome so let's go also in small chunks. Well, we recently had patches like 800 kilobytes of ice in the pie. Beautiful but hard to read. What do you tend to do with the bash things? For example, I would extend some Python stuff around and it's one way.  Yeah, okay. We keep everything post 4 so we have half time every time it's just old and old. And it has grown over the years to support more and more pictures and this might be the chance to reintroduce some sanity. You sure you want to use Django? Nothing in Django, it's been horrible because they change their thing every six months and we change every two years. We have to migrate to all the upstream releases but they don't change each time. People are leaving from 1.4 to 1.7 and stuff just explodes and doesn't work. And you have to go and download Docker images or something and then it says oh, you need to change these things. Then you go to 6 and you change these things.  It's quite sad though. It's really weird. Exactly, it's web people. Just run Django from back post. It's running fine for me. Yeah, just use an old one. Oh my god. That's way easy. Not really if you want to use real features. So I think for UD the first step is the way you look at the user-girl that works is that it generates a lot of small files and then pushes those small files to each machine. So each small file is specific to each machine because the sudoers file is different for each machine for example. And this is a very synchronous process and all machines get updated at once and you make another change and all machines get updated at once. And there is no there's no strategy really around all of these many, many files. And there's a lot of duplicate information in those files just because you happen to want to stick stuff in sudoers versus etc. So step one is to reproduce the functionality we have today in Python and Django still producing these many files but having abstraction layer over LBAP because there's a Django module that exposes LBAP as if it were standard ORM. And so at that point then you can use any of the ORM features that Django provides even though we're storing LBAP. And then we have choices we can make. Do we still want to store all this stuff in LBAP or do we want to store somebody in a database do we want to produce these 20 files per host or do we want to maybe reduce the number of files per host but do some processing on each host. Do we want to do it by leveraging some messaging while just for triggering? Yeah. What we currently do is once we see that new entries have been made into the LBAP we trigger we are using RabbitMQ to trigger the hosts to connect to db.dev.org to make this new content. But I'm not particularly narrowing to the files on Django It's quite clear though that it's going to be a mismatch between the way they want to change things and the way we change them it's going to be painful but I don't know, there's a better answer. Any other questions?  Thank you for attending.


Hi boys and girls, I'm Mrs. Smith and I'm so happy to be here with you again. Here we go. The name of the story is Jump on the Bump. Did you see some words from the ump family? I saw one, jump, jump on the, there's another one, Bump, Bump of this book. The person who thought of the story and wrote the story, his name, his name is Glen A. Penrod. He wrote this story for us. Before we, can you see who are the characters? I see a girl and a boy and now I'm going to look and think, where? Where are they? Does it look like they're in a jungle? It looks like that to me. What are they doing? And find out what happens. This is one of my favorite stories. The title is Jump on the Bump. The author's name is Glen A. Penrod. What happened? Jump. I see a purple bump. It looks like they're having so much fun. Jump. Jump. Did that bump get bigger? Jump. We're having a good time. We're having such a great time. Read and find out. Was it a bump? Was it a lump? Was it a hump? Happy to me. They're having so much fun. There's a problem. Grump. Do you see? Jumping on B is a grump. Look at that. He doesn't like that. Like they are sorry. They didn't know it was a dinosaur. The word from the ump still are jumping but now they are jumping on a stump. A stump is left when you cut down a tree. Good for them. They're not jumping on the dinosaur. They're jumping on a stump. Characters having so much fun. Boy and girl and the dinosaur are jumping on the stump. What a great story. But to see how that ended. And they're all friends. Boys and girls, I loved sharing this story with you and studying more about the ump family. What a fun, fun story. I hope you liked it too. Thank you so much and we'll see you next time.


Now today we got to talk about why your favorite artists might not be touring and the way that touring and the whole industry and approach that artists are taking is completely changing and how you should think about it as an artist, manager, or even just a fan coming up if you want to get an understanding of it because there's three primary things cost right then we have brand and thirdly we have monetization and I'll explain what those mean especially when it comes to monetization we're looking at touring completely differently than before you'll see why. So cost is something straightforward that a lot of people don't understand though still and that's just the fact that tours not only do they cost a lot of money they cost a lot of time and they have all these other things that are just difficult. So when I say difficult I'm talking about the fact that it's hard on your health you have a lot of artists like Rick Ross who really face some health issues being on tour he says hey today look if he does a tour and he has to go through that that gauntlet he'll do 15 dates and he needs some rest in between like that's just not the lifestyle he's trying to live anymore and so many artists that have toured seriously before will tell you it is not difficult I'm talking about sleeping on the bus sleeping on random couches sleeping in other random places some people aren't sleeping at all and it's not like it's glamorous I go to this city this city this city but when you go to these cities you often don't have time to enjoy the city but once again this is coming off of your health you have to establish a routine trying to figure out a workout and eat right all these things because it gets expensive especially if you aren't somebody like Beyonce who could afford to have all these things done for you to keep you on schedule but I'm going to move past that because I feel like people will get that right touring is hard from so many different directions brand is where it gets really tricky because there are four different types of artists when it comes to touring and one type of artist is the ideal touring artist and what I mean by that is you've gotten your name to a certain level right and you also have an established a man that's constantly being met through your touring so often times I look at these artists as the settled in legacy act so these are people who were you know hit making artists or had their real good run and now they're not really trying to push things heavily publicly they're not worrying about the main numbers but they have this established fan base that they can always feed because they represent the good times of when these people were younger they can always go back to these fans and then you have the established indies so this could be a newer artist it doesn't have to be a legacy act but because they've established themselves they never necessarily hit mainstream but they're established they can hit that fan base again and again and they can constantly tour making sure that they're meeting the demand outside of that the other three artists have a lot more to consider and a lot more nuances that can make it difficult to tour the first of these artists are the one hit wonders now a lot of people don't understand when you look at artists like Lil Nas X right Lil Nas X has a big hit but he hasn't toured yet and it's so many other artists that have been like that because when you are a one-hit wonder you have to consider the fact that people just like you for this song so how are you going to perform if you don't have an entire set to perform right how are people gonna go to your show a full blown hour plus show if you don't have more than one song that people really really rock with it makes it difficult especially when you're talking about the level of Lil Nas X where you have to find the way to make sure that you're making music that people actually care about outside of just that hit song which is a certain energy so even maintaining that and figuring that out can be hard for a lot of artists secondly we have artists like Cardi B right and Cardi B is a unique situation and what makes her stuff so difficult from a brand perspective is she actually rose pretty quickly became this phenomenon and with that happening it made it difficult to actually have a tour because you do know she can meet demand on tour there's a lot of people that would love to see Cardi B but with that being said she has a particular allure to her brand at this point because of the level that she's reached and how quickly she reached that because even if you think about Cardi B's Coachella performance i think she says something like she might have get paid 30 or 70 thousand dollars something like that for that performance but she ended up putting 300 thousand dollars down just for the stage setup that's just one particular show now imagine taking that show on the row because she had to put in 300k because she has these brand expectations it's going to be big at that point so it gives her a different kind of difficulty from her brand standpoint to actually be able to deliver a tour that of course you can bring out numbers but now meeting expectations is another thing that brings all these other factors into play outside of the difficulties of having a tour and of course she has a kid and things like that which is getting farther away from that point but especially at time when you know she was fresh out with a kid that's a whole another scenario then thirdly a huge level of artists that has his own complications are those superstars that have been there been there for a good amount of time and they aren't necessarily legacy acts traditionally even though technically they are because they've been around for a while but they're still trying to play that game where they hit you on a certain level and those are people like Nicki Minaj and Jay-Z where they're still doing stadiums and certain types of venues and kind of experimenting with what level of tour can i pull off how big can i pull it off but still be able to sell out right because for them of not being able to sell out it's also an issue right it's still kind of lowering that brand allure so you have to figure out what's that marriage what are the numbers how many dates can i do and this is something that you kind of do at every level when you really get things out but it's really a little bit more complex when you already have established brand you've done plenty of sold out shows but it's hard to fully detect right how much your brand has waned and that's a completely different level of brand to keep up with now with those in mind you'll see some of the justification for it because that last but not least factor is the monetization and why this is so important and why it's evolving how people look at touring as a whole it's simply because how the industry's changed how the fanbases have changed because you might have heard me say things like Cardi B hasn't toured you might have heard me say Lil Nas X hasn't toured and that might have confused you but what people don't understand is they're doing what i actually have suggested plenty of times to young artists who have nowhere near the level of fanbase for awareness that those other artists have and that is essentially using other events that are already occurring right and then actually schedule yourself for those dates and then from a flyer and marketing standpoint you can actually push that as a tour because these people aren't having their own national tours yet when we're looking at Cardi and we're looking at Lil Nas X and so many other artists that are kind of start to reach that level and the reason is pretty much a combination of so many of these things so if you look at the fact that they're going to festivals these huge festivals and then tying it together marketing kind of as a tour in its own right it's still not the same as a national tour where you're going everywhere right and when you go everywhere you're taking all these expenses with you and you have to figure out all of the logistics they're just handling more so the stage which is expensive still because if you're on a certain level it's still expensive but is nowhere near the expense and headache as fully running a tour hold on the story so with that in mind why are people allowed to do that like why is the tour possibly dead in one form of fashion for so many artists because when you look at an artist from the standpoint of the fact that yo i got a one hit wonder i'm Lil Nas X right i can show up and maybe get 50k just for this one show well i'm sure his numbers have exceeded that in so many ways but i'm saying you can just show up from a for a walkthrough a public appearance and get 50k let alone performing at certain events right then it's not necessarily worth all those other headaches because if i can go to all these festivals the industry has changed where there's so many festivals that exist today and i could just pop up at all these festivals and call it my show or i could just pop up at festivals with the combination of some solo events and then still call it my tour in some form of fashion then i'm still getting to be able to reach that same demand that i have out there without having to take on the full expenses as opposed to just doing a regular national tour so it kind of doesn't even make sense especially when you're looking at so many of these festivals and things like that in these public appearances and they're giving you money to show up right and then do your tour versus the tour coming from the other end where it's more so hey like this is all your money all your money in then you get back a festival's basically like yo show up we'll give you 100k and then you do your thing whatever you decide to invest in the stage and then you go home that headache isn't there as much it's a different level so this is bringing in an interesting way of approaching how you tour today now again there's a lot of artists that don't necessarily have this opportunity but once they hit a certain space this is a truly opportunistic way to go about a truly logical way to go about it from a business model standpoint right even if i don't want to have a full tour i can have a tour that combines these different types of events the only problem with that though is it doesn't allow you to control the full experience in the same way as a traditional national tour where you own everything and that's why an act like Cardi B still needs to do it right they still have to get things going but you also don't want her to lose her hotness right she doesn't too late and now she starts to end up in that situation where a nicky or jz is where of course once again these people they have their level they're still successful a lot of people want to see them but they might not hit those sell-out sell-out numbers that are a lot more superficial sometimes from a standpoint of you know the magazines billboard and that's the industry's perspective you got to protect your brand because when people don't perform at these festivals and don't have the numbers it actually affects other parts of their business that perception can be a real thing people are analyzing we think about fans so much but so many times when we wonder why are they worried about these other metrics they have other deals that they can make based on other parts of their business where did my song chart what did my tour look like all of these things right all of these things that are symbolic of potentially are you hot or not or how hot are you at the moment so even if you have a show that costs $100 and then it doesn't sell out but it still makes more money than a show that costs $75 it still might have an interesting impact on your brand that you wouldn't like as opposed to fans paying $75 per ticket and actually selling out some of the stuff doesn't once again make sense strictly from the macro position short term of the of the money but from a long term to brand and some of the other things that people can leverage it just happens to have a certain look that's a part of that game that gets a little bit more complicated now in terms of an upstart artist perspective again you can still utilize the same model it's not that different how do i go to the four states around me and the other cities around my city find other events being put on by promoters other artists that are coming on and all that stuff right and then say hey do they have a similar fan base that what i would like to can i pay to get on this artist show right i just want to open for this artist but i'm still going to be there to tap into the fans that i have and in in this area because maybe if i pay if i got fans if i'm looking at my analytics and i see i got fans in nashville tennessee and i can pay $200 to get on this show and based on what i look at when it comes to the fans i feel like i can make that money back on merch and it still allows me to make that touch point versus having to pay the overhead to do something else right and i get a relationship out of it okay could be a smart way to go about it and i could do that from from city to city to city and maybe i have my own show that i control everything in one location wherever my home is right there's different ways to go about it tours are no longer a monolith and how they have to be handled because of all the things that technology has given us access to is just how much do you pay attention and leverage it how creative do you get because what artist or just a lot of people in general fail to understand that business success requires as much creativity as art does itself you just have to figure out how you can apply it to work for you and maximize your own situation so that's it for now i would love to know how you guys think about touring where you see the industry going or how you might have creatively made a tour happen for yourself other than that as always this video is brought to you by brandmannetwork.com because i sign myself we help artists build their brains and build the infrastructure to grow their fan base if you like this video go ahead and like button if you like it might as well share and if you're not subscribed you know what to do hit that subscribe button


Data-driven science is revolutionizing materials science by utilizing data as a new resource to discover and improve materials or phenomena through tools such as machine learning and high throughput methods, but challenges such as data veracity, integration, longevity, standardization, and the gap between industrial and academic interests impede progress. This article was authored by Lori Himinan, Amber Jertz, Adam Stewart Foster, and others.


Good afternoon. I'm Major General Jeff Fan. I'm the commander of Joint Task Force Civil Support, which is the lead weapons of mass destruction headquarters for Department of Defense under NORCOM. This Defense supports civil authorities exercise, which we're doing here with our local communities and and local partners as a key event for our preparation to wear disc defense support for civil authorities is in support of Homeland Defense, which shows a very resilient population and shows a very resilient force for our Homeland Defense for the strength of this nation. I'd like to thank everybody who participated here. 43 different organizations came together here, which is a national level exercise to where we ended up looking at different threats to the local area. So many thanks to go go out to our first responders, going out to the local fire departments and back to the Georgia support across all of our inter agencies to make this exercise a great great success. It has plainly shown how a whole of government approach comes together the unity of effort toward a common cause to to be able to react to anything that that the nation could be prepared for. So big thanks go out to the Georgia Army National Guard, going out to U.S. Northern Command and to the total Cree response industry, which has showed up here today where you see our first responders reacting to an event and the threats here up in the homeland. So I greatly appreciate y'all inviting us here today to be a participant in y'all's operations. And I think the operations were a great success to show the resiliency of us Georgians here inside the United States. So thank y'all for coming in and I appreciate y'all for being here. Thanks. Good afternoon. Lieutenant Colonel Travis McCullough on the commander of the 265th chemical battalion. Also on the commander of the Sebran Task Force. The Sebran Task Force is made up of both army and air elements. And we fall under the 201st Regional Support Group or the Region 4 Homeland Response Force, where we're responsible for the southeastern most states in this corner for eight states to respond to any domestic event that occurs. So what we bring to this organization as far as the capability standpoint, we bring in search and extraction capabilities where we have rope rescue, blocking, racing, cribbing. We also bring in medical elements and those medical elements are primarily comprised of our Air Force team. We also bring in the FSRT team, Fatality Search and Recovery team. And we have a case team. The case team is the Sebran Assistance Support Element. That team is responsible for marshaling the throughput into our footprint and out. So again, we really thank everyone for allowing us to participate in this operation. One of the main capabilities that we did bring was our DECON team and our C2 or our command and control team. So the command and control team is responsible for actually executing the directives of the incident commander and working with local, state and federal agencies to ensure we have a joint effort to complete our task here. So again, thank you for everything and we look forward to a successful event. Good afternoon. I'm Shane Sparagowski from Atlanta Fulton County Emergency Management Agency and today we've got a great exercise that we've really worked together for the last two years on. This exercise is really the foundation of future exercises across the nation and Atlanta is really happy to host this. It's a collaborative effort between our agency and also U.S. Northern Command. This exercise was not based on any situation that's currently going and really we've planned this many years out. However, this type of exercise really helps us work together for future responses, whether it's something natural disaster related or the unthinkable like a radiation event from a nuclear weapon. We're really excited to have this integration between us and the Department of Defense and really look forward to creating the playbook for the rest of the nation and really what we're doing here is working cradle to grave through the whole process. Of course, they start in decontamination but after that decontamination piece, there's really so many other pieces that are involved and so we also inside have the Family Assistance Center that helps people get onto the path to recovery. In there, there's numerous services that are provided, you know, anything from mental health services to physical health services, transportation, shelter, feeding, any resources they need. But additionally, it also serves as the place of reunification for families. Also, unfortunately, it also serves as that location for mortuary services. So, we're really there to make it one stop shop but to make people whole and get them on the path to recovery here at the site. Thank you. I saw our county manager, Dick, was here but at any rate, I just wanted to just say, first of all, I appreciate the collaborative effort of all that were involved. I've never seen anything this massive. I think at one time they may have had 500 people out here and this exercise made me think about the saying that my late mother used to say, be prepared so when it happens, you don't have to get prepared. And I just as an elected official representing this area, kudos to the Department of Defense, to all the municipalities, to all of the first responders because I could imagine logistically how hard this was to pull off. But more importantly, while I'm standing here going through the tour, I have constituents in this area saying, Commissioner, what is going on? What's going on? So, even they're being educated that their tax dollars are at work. We're out here in a collaborative spirit with all the municipalities and with all the defense departments and all of the individuals that sometimes we work in silos. And today out here, everybody was a team. Everybody was working together. And as an elected official, I tell you, it was so refreshing just to see that there was no labels. It was just about getting the job done, being prepared and making sure that what we learned, because I got a great education today, but what we learned is where we're strong, where maybe we may be weak, but more importantly, when it comes to those budget decisions, we must be prepared. We cannot look at stuff and say put it on the back burner or at some point, we'll try to figure it out in the budget. I rather for all of Georgia, United States, but I represent Fulton County at this time, but I want all of us to be prepared in case of an emergency and to see the decontamination area for the dogs, to see the family assistance center. I mean, I know there were people that lost their lives in Katrina because they didn't want to leave their dog behind. And I think about me. I'm a dog lover. My dog is my fourth child. And in an emergency, if I had to go somewhere and get decontaminated, I may walk away if I can't bring my pet with me. Now that's something that, generally speaking, you wouldn't think about. Then I think about the fact that when I watched the actors and the decontamination center, and one of the actors came to me and said, have you seen my husband? I can't find my husband. Now she was acting, but it made me think that undertaking to reunify families in case of a disaster or a case of emergency. So I just wanted to say as an elected official, sometimes we get in our own way and we become argumentative and we work in silos. And this today was definitely an art, an example of how to work together as a team, the labels leave, and you make sure you do the best for humanity and society. And I applaud everyone involved. Thank you. So we have volunteers actually from all over the metro.  And we've got volunteers here from citizen emergency response teams. We've got medical reserve for volunteers. And then we have just friends, you heard about it out here volunteering. So it's really awesome to see everybody come together. So they really take what information's out there and help them reunify with their family. I know it sounds simple, but it's really complex. When you start talking about that whole process, you know, where are they at in that process? Are they being deconed? Are they in a hospital? You know, unfortunately, have they passed away? Things like that are all taken into consideration. But that's really that central point where that information flow starts to happen. So they're able to connect the dots or if the person's still missing, they're able to put that out that the person's still missing. And so as soon as they are found, then they're able to tell that family member, Hey, we found your family member, they're on the way to the hospital right now, or they're on the way to the family assistance center. So it's really that full process. It's very similar. So in any situation, whether it's something that's happened here or somewhere else, and we have people coming in either to evacuate or take refuge, the processes are still the same. The people are still the same. The partners that we're working with today are the same partners that we work with during those major events, such as a hurricane evacuation. So today we're actually out here at an exercise in Atlanta called Vista Forge, where we have an unprecedented collaboration between US Northcom, other military partners, and local and state partners, where we are practicing our decontamination operations in response to an improvised nuclear device in the city of Atlanta. So I'm here today mostly as an observer. I'm a PhD student at the University of Georgia, where my research is creating a model that estimates the casualties in the aftermath of a nuclear disaster. And so today I'm here to ask questions, really better understand our operations so that my research can better support the local and state plans as we sort of look and review this exercise to better protect and serve the public in the future. I think today is a tremendous opportunity for all of the different agencies to learn from each other and really understand what assumptions we may have about various organizations. For me personally, it's been incredibly informative to get to ask various subject matter experts as well as operations personnel what they think is going to happen, how they would respond, and help identify the gaps so that we can make our plans better.


So after the introduction, let's get started with the program. Last week, I had the opportunity to talk to Stefan Haidt-Force, who's a futurist, and he has a certain opinion around what might happen in the future. And I asked him this question around sustainability. As Albert's, we're very active as well in the electrification of cars and vehicles, and asked him the question around, Stefan, what do you think will happen around sustainability in the future? Sustainability, it's a big topic and you could always argue that, no, no, no, this is not the right path or at least there is a better path. Electric cars is a perfect example of this. Obviously a lot of big players out there, they have an interest in pointing elsewhere, or at least to slow things down. But instead of asking ourselves if a path is good or bad, let's think about what we really should talk about. Sustainability, sustainable, it means the opposite of unsustainable. And it's quite easy to agree that unsustainable, that sounds like a bad business strategy. So we're almost 8 billion people and the old business models can't grow anymore. That's where we are. So it's not going to be one solution, one path to fix it all. We will need all the paths we can think of. So electrification of cars, yes, that's one. That's better than fossil fuel cars. Less consumerism, sharing platforms, yes. That's also better, that's one. This isn't just going to be about the environment and pollution and climate change. You cannot think of sustainability as a cost anymore. Think of it as the Industrial Revolution. The coming decades, every business will do more with less. That's what it's about. Consumers love that. The reason people will buy electric cars from now on is primarily because it's going to be cheaper. But shareholders will also love it because more with less is good for everybody. Everybody who does this are part of the right path and the ones who don't get it are history. Thank you, Stefan. I think that's a very interesting answer and I particularly like your remark about more with less. Let's move on to the next question, which is all around connectivity. We've seen a big change over the last couple of years in people acting differently, connecting. How do you see that going forward into the future, Stefan? I believe we need to stop thinking about the online world as the opposite of a real world. When you think of young people like Generation Z and then Generation Alpha, the ones born in the 21st century, they never think of real experiences versus online experience. They never use words like digitalization. Whenever you hear people talk about something like digitalization, it's going to be old people. Digital is part of real experiences. You can think of it as the sixth sense. You have sight, sound, smell, taste and touch and now we have virtual. That is part of the real world. Thank you, Stefan. That was a very interesting answer and I liked your remark about the sixth sense. So with that, third question really is around how do you think social life will develop in the next couple of years? Do you see a fundamental change how the new generations will react and act together in this world? Well, to be honest, I don't know. I always try to remind people that the future is not to be predicted. It is to be created. But I will tell you this. After a year and a half of so much radical change, one thing we know will not change. Not even pandemics. We had many throughout history, as you know. Not even pandemics can change who we are. Human beings are social animals and isolation was always the worst form of punishment. And then one more thing. We also know that whenever something is extreme, the pendulum will eventually go the other way. So you know what came after the last pandemic? The roaring twenties. So that's my best bet for a new norm. The roaring twenties 2.0. But remember what I said. Don't listen to my words. Don't listen to predictions. You make it happen. Thanks, Stefan, and I will take on that challenge, but I cannot do that alone. I also would need the input from all of you in the audience. What do you think the future will bring?


Joining me now is Robert Reich, Secretary of Labor in the Clinton administration and professor of public policy at the University of California, Berkeley. Mr. Reich is always good to talk to you. I just want to go through with you because Republicans really do constantly say their goals are tax cuts and deregulation. It's the other half of their tax cut zeal. But this is what the Trump administration did as far as rail deregulation alone. They reversed this Obama-era rule. It would have required breaking system upgrades for high hazard trains that are hauling flammable liquids. They changed the safety rules to allow for rail transport of highly flammable liquefied natural gas. They ended those regular safety audits, as I mentioned earlier. They suspended a pending rule requiring freight trains to have at least two crew members. They placed a veteran of the chemical industry in charge of the EPA's Chemical Safety Office where she made industry-friendly changes to how the agency studied health risk. And by the way, that is one of just 240 significant deregulatory actions and just 97 significant regulatory ones. A ratio of 2.5 to 1. This is the future Republicans want and now they've got it in Ohio, sir. Well, that's absolutely right, Joy. And the problem is that big corporations put a lot of money into campaigns. Follow the money. Those lobbyists and that money are designed to get what? Tax cuts and regulatory so-called relief. And when you deal with health and safety and environmental regulations, you're playing with people's lives if you get rid of those. And we see this, or whether it's a train derailment or it's children who are working in meatpacking plants or wherever you look in America, big corporations who have been relieved, and again, they use this term relief, relieved of these health safety and environmental regulations and labor regulations actually are exposing the public, consumers and workers to more and more hazards. This is a direct redistribution of income and wealth from average working people to the biggest investors and the biggest billionaires in America. I mean, this literally happened in Ohio. Mike DeWine, the governor there, received money for his inaugural. He received money and support, but it was a bipartisan effort. I mean, Norfolk Southern has been pumping money into the politicians in Ohio to make sure that they are lightly regulated and that they fight against additional federal regulation. This has been the theme, but across, as you said, the Republican Party is constantly saying that if you do more deregulation, it's gonna make things cheaper, it's gonna be better for the consumer. They tried to make it sound like it's a good deal for the consumer, but I just wanna show you the map of where Norfolk Southern goes. Norfolk Southern is not just carrying chemical, hazardous chemicals to Ohio. They're all the way down to Florida, which is already an ecological disaster in terms of the climate crisis. This stuff could derail anywhere and what Republicans are saying is, no, you don't want the federal government to regulate it. They just need to come in and fix it after the chemicals are already in the water. Well, it's a form, Joy, of trickle-down economics. I mean, basically they're saying let companies make as much money as possible, let billionaires who are investing in these companies make huge amounts of money and eventually the benefits will trickle down to everybody else. The reality is the benefits don't trickle down to everybody else. If you deregulate, if you get rid of health safety, labor and environmental regulations, you are exposing more and more people to corporate greed. Look, one of the things that Republicans love to do is accuse Democrats of being, what, socialists, of communists as if the real choice is between socialism and capitalism, no. Capitalism requires guardrails. Greed requires some constraints. Regulation for the last 150 years is the way we in this country have said to big corporations, go ahead, make as much money as possible, but protect the public. We ask you, we demand that the public be protected. You know, what's interesting too, is that during Republican administrations, you see things like the EPA administrators from the chemical industry. You know, each of these agencies gets handed over to somebody who came from the industry and they're the ones who are supposedly doing the regulation. So even when they're doing some form of federal regulation, it's the bad guys policing themselves. Well, that's right. It's the foxes policing the henhouses and you can't, you just can't do that. I mean, whether it comes in the form of big campaign contributions where it comes in the form of a revolving door in which the company's executives are temporarily overseeing regulations, it's the same result. And the result is the public is sacrificed. The public interest is being sacrificed. Is there ever been a time when a state alone on its own could handle something like what we've seen in Palestine, Ohio? I mean, in the end, this comes down to the federal government is the only one with the wherewithal to actually do the fixing. So now what you're seeing is that the EPA has to come in. The company did some water quality tests. It was a disaster. Everything they've tried to do themselves is a disaster. It does feel like the federal government actually has a purpose as much as Republicans seem to despise it. Yes, and when Ronald Reagan said 40 years ago, the government is your enemy. Don't trust the government. Unfortunately, that view seeped into American consciousness to the point where we don't really feel that the government is on our side.  They justify that distrust of government because they do such a bad job protecting the public. That's why we've got to get into this vicious cycle, reverse the vicious cycle, and make sure that the private sector is working for America, is making us better off, not just the top executives, not just the biggest shareholders, but all of us, whether we are buying products, whether we are in the communities where these products are being created, whether we are consumers or workers, it doesn't matter. We all need some degree of protection.


What if Wal-Mart built a superstore on an historic Civil War battlefield? Or developers built a high-rise in a century's old nature preserve? They almost did. And they're trying to right now. Impossible? It's happening. Along 12 miles of the Palisades, one of this nation's very first conservation efforts were developers planned to build a high-rise that will forever obstruct this pristine natural wonder. And in Tennessee, where without passage of critical but simple legislation, the Delta Queen will be sidelined and lost to disrepair. Since 1949, the National Trust for Historic Preservation has been fighting for and preserving our nation's greatest treasures, protecting all of America's rich and diverse legacies. Like New Jersey's Hinchliffe Stadium, where hundreds of volunteers gave new life to the sports arena, educating and engaging the next generation about the history and importance of this pivotal Negro League baseball stadium. Our supporters know how important our past is to our future. With your help, we have dramatically expanded our National Treasures Program in just two years to include historical and cultural icons of all kinds, all critically endangered, all across the country. Like the 1927 Waikiki Natatorium War Memorial in Hawaii, which is slated for demolition, we're working to restore and reopen this one-of-a-kind ocean water swimming pool and memorial. There's so much to be done at places like Chaco Bottom, once a center of Richmond slave trade, and an important archaeological site currently threatened by plans for a baseball stadium. With the continued support of our donors, we'll keep saving places like Cincinnati's Icons, Union Terminal and Music Hall and historic buildings where our soldiers found respite after returning for war. From wilderness battlefield to the Waikiki Natatorium and beyond, thank you for helping protect for future generations the stories that inspired and created a great nation. Together, we'll continue preserving the past and enriching our future.


Yesterday, Dunleary County Council became the ninth local government body in Ireland to formally and officially endorse the Boycott, Divassment, and Sanctions campaign against Israel, better known as BDS. The movement was proposed by three local politicians including Councillor Melissa Halpin of People Before Prophets. Quite amazingly, in endorsing BDS, Dunleary County Council has become the ninth local government body in Ireland to formally endorse the movement, intended to harm Israel's economy and isolate it diplomatically. In June of 2018, two Irish city councils got behind the move. Dublin City Council endorsed BDS, thereby becoming the first European capital to endorse the movement. Galway City Council followed suit in the same month, and in March of the following year 2019, Quirk City Council endorsed a call to Boycott Israel's hosting of the Eurovision Song Contest. In 2005, Limerick City Council declared itself a caterpillar-free zone in protest of the Israeli military's use of caterpillars for military equipment. Collectively, this means that Ireland's four larger cities have all previously endorsed some form of BDS against Israel. This summer in the UK, central government voted in favour of a bill to prevent any public bodies including local government from boycotting Israel in order to bring local governments in sync with national politics and foreign policy. Michael Gove was named as a coordinator for that effort, however, unfortunately, no such measures have been initiated in Ireland. For more videos about daily life in Israel, please consider subscribing to this YouTube channel.


Would you rather pay $650 or $66 for a smart phone? Simple. With the Appalachian Advantage Plan, pay less upfront, and then just a few dollars more every month. Better service, bigger savings. That's today's Appalachian Wireless. Following Paintsville's second cancellation of the Kentucky Apple Festival, the city of Paintsville will host Anifest in its place. Wednesday we spoke with Paintsville Mayor Bill Runyon about the announcement. So what we decided to do was to give them an opportunity to make up of two years of loss of revenue is to go ahead and open our streets up and let them come in and charge them a small fee for their vendors and their arts and crafts and let them make as much money as they possibly can because we know they're hurting. As told in 2019, the Apple Fest was one of Paintsville's primary resources for local fundraising. Since announcing the Autumn Fest, Mayor Runyon hopes that it will help out local organizations. So we're calling it the Paintsville Autumn Fest. And we've got a real short time to throw it together. We know there's going to be glitches. We fully understand that part of it. What we feel like as a city, a city government, and that we owe it to our non-profits and our citizens to try and put something on for them so they can make a little bit of money. In conjunction with Paintsville's Autumn Fest, we'll be music by Allie on Main's Allie Festival held on the same week. They now have 20 acts coming in. So starting Thursday afternoon and running all the way through Saturday night, there's going to be one act right after another going on at a place that a new restaurant just went in called The Allie. And they've got a stage area and a large parking lot set up behind the restaurant. And they're going to have several, several good acts coming in. Paintsville's Autumn Fest will be held from September 30th through October 2nd. For vendor applications, you can contact Paintsville City Hall at<PHONE_NUMBER>. For Mountain Top News, I'm Joel Korgel.


Okay, to Community Matters, I'm Jay Fidel. It's a two o'clock block on a given Monday. You know, we talk about coronavirus, we talk about the things we need to do. And one of the combination things that we haven't done really, I don't care what they say in Washington, is we haven't had enough good testing, information gathering and tracing. And we need to take a scientific look at that. Because if you wanna reopen the economy, you gotta do everything possible first for public health. It's not hard to do it, but we have to do it smart. And Mike DeWerner, our chief scientist, taking a look at this and he's here to tell us the scientific view of testing and tracing. Not complicated, or is it, Mike? It's more complicated than you might hope, but it's basically straightforward. The fact is, if you want to be able to reopen businesses, you gotta have the kind of businesses where they can actually gather information that would let you trace contacts if necessary. And it's all possible. We've seen on the mainland, a lot of anecdotal evidence that beauty salons can stay open. If even if they've had a couple of cases where one of the hairdressers in the salon had COVID, but she was masked, her customers were masked and they were doing everything sanitation-wise very carefully and nobody got COVID except her. Then when they found out, of course, they had to sanitize the salon and keep her home quarantined. But I kind of like to start out with a snapshot of where we are right now in terms of disease progression. So on this chart, is the chart up the first chart? Yeah, there it is. Yeah, there we go. So back in February, when I first started tracking this, there's a magenta box here. So this scale vertically is a logarithmic scale. So every big division is another factor, 10 more. And you look at the world, US and Hawaii, we're all about doubling every four days or so. And so an exponential growth on this will look like a straight line. So we're all doubled every four days or so. Then starting in March, April, everybody started locking down and quarantining and restricting activity. That bent the curves over a bit. It didn't crush them, except Hawaii was able to crush its curve for a while, reduce the new cases to nearly zero. The rest of the world and the United States seem to have transitioned to a slower exponential, but they're still on an exponential growth. Having said that, we've already worldwide probably delayed hundreds of millions of cases of COVID-19. The gray line shows where we would have gone, it's literally off the chart. If the world hadn't been to lockdowns and quarantines, we would be off the chart right now in cases. USA right now looks like it's doubling every month or so. Hawaii is actually more about 38 day doubling time, but Hawaii's actually seen to bend up again. Since we started reopening, our curve going from being crushed has gone to actually a faster growth that looks like than the US as a whole. It's around a 30 day doubling. Now we still have a few cases, with only 1200 odd cases in Hawaii, we can still do contact tracing, we can still do all the testing. The state hasn't just thought how many cases per day is going to be acceptable. I'm estimating that with the current hospitalization rate, we could handle up to 600 cases a day, which sounds like a horrible lot and it is, but we could handle that many before we overwhelm the healthcare system with people in hospital and ICUs. And even at that rate, it would take us four and a half years to get to herd immunity. So we are a long way from done with this pandemic. We are a long way from done with this. Well, one question is if you try to suppress the curve and all, you know, you have to have certain tools and you have to have certain timing. You have to take certain steps, but it's that gray line at the center of your chart that really scares me. That's the line where you don't do anything and it just goes out of control. Well, yeah, so that's it. That one's a good news. I should have shown the whole graph. It's a good news, bad news story. If we'd done nothing, the pandemic would be over because we'd have millions of people dead and there'd be nobody left to infect. Okay, so all right. And the healthcare system would have collapsed as well. Yeah. So there's going to be a, this is my proposition to you, I'd like to know if it's true that testing and tracing is useful up to a point but then you get to a certain inflection point where testing and tracing can't help where the thing is more like the gray line is out of control and you might as well just sit back and enjoy it because no tools will work. Am I right about that? Well, if you don't do that, what you're stuck with is shutting down businesses and quarantining, which you see in California that I'm having to do, that I'm doing in Arizona, Texas, Florida, they have to shut down businesses and quarantines which is a very blunt tool. But if you don't do the testing and you don't do the tracing, that's all you got is shutdowns and lockdowns. And it really is best for the economy if you can do the testing, tracing, hire the contract tracers we need and do it right. There's some business- We may be there in some states. In the wild, yeah. There are 22 states which are spiking like crazy right now. It's the number expands every day. And so some of those states, as you say, the only thing you can do is lockdown. And it's too late. Am I right? Too late. Yeah, I think you're right. And then people in the mainland, the officials in some of the CDC officials and some of Trump's officials said, yeah, it's too late. We've lost control. We can't do anything in terms of tracing and testing. And I actually have a niece in St. Louis. She and her husband took their kids to literally not like a high school baseball tournament in Memphis. Now why they went, I don't know. They tried to mask, they tried to socialize the best they could at this tournament. Apparently it wasn't enough. Both parents came down with COVID and they have different symptoms but they're both sick with it. They will not test the kids because the kids aren't showing symptoms because there's a shortage of tests. The problem is half of the disease transmission it looks like comes from asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic carriers. So even though the kids aren't showing symptoms, they could still be sick, they could still be transmitting and most likely are if they've actually got the virus in their systems. And this lack of testing is just making it impossible. Now, there's no way to trace because you haven't tested them and you don't know then what the data really say. So you've got to collect the information. So another thought is that if we could go back back to the time when we first made efforts to control curve and all that and do an effective program on testing and tracing, we're going to suppress it even better than by the lockdown. Because we identified every case who would have isolated every case who would have stopped the infection or the rate of infection to below one, right? Yeah, like New Zealand has, you know. We could be like New Zealand and keep the curve crushed. Problem is really as long as the disease is anywhere in the world, nowhere in the world is really safe. It's only a plane right away and it takes one false negative test to bring it in again. That's the problem. We needed a global response. We needed the nations of the world with the real leadership which could have happened. We could have had real leadership in the United States saying, okay, China screwed up. Let us lead and show how to do this right and make the world a safe place for American commerce again. I mean, we could have done it. It would have only taken a couple of months but we didn't. When he got up and said anybody who wants a test can get a test, that wasn't true. It isn't true now. It isn't true now, like I say, Mike. And we didn't do tracing.  Yeah. We didn't do tracing either. So we've lost the opportunity. Yeah, yeah. In Hawaii, I don't think we have lost the opportunity but it's gonna be really hard with the rest of the United States not doing anything. But we know that there's certain businesses that can open safely with precautions. Like on the next page, I'm gonna show an example of, like they say in hair salons and barber shops, masking has been shown to be very effective in that setting. So barber shop, I go to good kind. Oh, hey, they've got all these procedures that the governor has said you got to do. They sanitize, they do everything. Customers and employees all wear masks. You've got to have the masks to go in. And there's not a lot of chit chat because talking a lot increases the risk. So there's not a lot of banter between the customers and the barbers. They do temperature checks. Now, temperature checks aren't very specific but at least it is a screening. They ask the question if you've been on form travel or travel outside of Y in the last two weeks, that helps. They restrict access only the people actually get in their haircut and go in. And but most importantly, they log who's there when they came in and their name and phone number. That log lets, if they do have somebody who went to that barber shop or works in that shop, test positive, they can now do contact tracing. They know who to call, who to warn that they may have been exposed. And so that's critical. This is how to do that. If an operator, a barber in this barber shop develops a positive test, then you go back to that log and look at that log and see who did that barber have contact with. And now you're often running on a pretty valid tracing experience. Right, right, right, right. Now, so you've gathered the data. Now, there's some businesses where it's hard to do that like open a bar. I mean, our bar is really going to log the name and phone number of everybody that walks through the door and when they walk through the door. They might, but I haven't heard of that actually happening. So, but that's what it would take is being able to do that. Then some places like gyms, they try to do everything right, but a gym you're inherently breathing hard, it might just be impossible on that gym to be safe. But still they gather the data. And I'm amazed that the government, the Health Department was able to trace the two outbreaks at gyms here on Oahu to one person that went to both gyms. They able to identify, in a sense, patient zero for those two outbreaks. And that's because they could do contact tracing and have the data to do it. So businesses which can gather the data can possibly reopen. Businesses where it's somehow impossible to gather the data, I don't know. They may have to stay closed.   Well, but if you have a large group, let's say the church service and 200 people show up, and then out of that church service, one person, you know, tests positive. Right. I suppose you can go back now you have, you're often running to do tracing on everybody who was there. Everybody who signed up that he was there. And that is doable, although it requires a significantly greater effort by the tracing department. Oh yeah. You have to phone up 200 people. Yeah, because, yeah, you have to phone up 200 people. And the next page kind of shows some numbers here that you have to have. The, it's a pretty labor intensive process. They estimate, the experts estimate that for the United States, we need 100,000 to 300,000 tracers. And we got like 30,000 right now. Hawaii's doing a bit better. We might need 400 or so. And we've got 147 that are still recruiting, which is good. So you need about 30 tracers for every 100,000 people in your state. And so that's about 400 or so for Hawaii. And that's a lot of work. It's a full-time job. Call it people, gotta be a diplomat. You gotta be super careful about privacy. You can't disclose the name of the person you think gave it to the person you're talking to. And, but if you, at least you can trace down to people who have been exposed. Right now, if you don't test though, you can only ask them to sell quarantine, which then you'll be quarantined a lot more people than maybe you had to. So, but if you want to do tracing, go ahead. I wanted to ask you what that conversation was like. Can we role play a conversation? Oh, you're going to be the caller. I've not had the training. So I can't really tell you how to, what the trainer. Rough idea, rough idea. And I'll be the person you want to get the data from. Go ahead. Oh, well, Aloha, Mr. Fidel. We have a reason to suspect you've probably been exposed to COVID-19, which is going to check up on you. See if you have symptoms. And then I would ask, you know, if you have a fever, do you cough? How do you feel? But you have to be, I'd have to be more diplomatic than I aim to do that. Okay, well, you know, I don't have COVID doctor, I do have a little temperature and I have a headache. Have, you know, and my respiratory, not really feeling good and I'm tired all the time, but it's just a little cold. I know it's just a little cold. Okay, thank you very much for the call. What do you do with that? Right, right. See, I haven't been trained. So I don't know what the next step would be to say for a while, maybe suggest you stay home for two weeks and just in case. It might just be the flu, but you want to get the flu to anybody either. Yeah, I'm just, well, I raised this because not everybody's going to cooperate. Right, not everybody's going to cooperate. And it's an implementation problem. You know, you have these theoretically, you can trace me out. You could identify me. Now, if there were a law, a constitutional law that allowed you to force me to a test, you know, that would be a step ahead and you could probably stop the lineage on my virus right there. Or at least I wouldn't be spreading any further. But if I said, no, take a walk.  Goodbye. Well, the government does have the right to enforce a quarantine in that case. And I've been tested. They can say, okay, you got to be quarantined for two weeks, unless you're willing to take the test. And they can arrest you and find you.  Now we don't want to go there. As a contact tourist, you don't want to start with that. Have we gone there? I don't know. Well, I know we've rested tourists for breaking quarantine. So we find tourists for breaking quarantine. So it's possible that you could do that, that you could require people. But I don't think we've actually gone to somebody and said, we think you might have been exposed. Yeah. And we want you to get tested. If you don't get tested, we're going to arrest you. Yeah. That'd be really nice to have someone from the Department of Health on, you know, get Bruce Anderson on, or somebody like that to tell you what power they really wish, if we're seeing implementing to compel this. Because I haven't heard how many cases I think they're going to be willing to rank up to either per month or per day. You mean the tracers? Yeah, how many cases they expect the tracers will have to actually be able to trace per day? Well, you figure it's, if there's 170, what is it? 420 of them, they could do 420 cases, that's one a day. But you want it to handle a lot more than that. So just- Hope not. If we get a lot more than that, the healthcare system won't be able to handle it unless we can expand its capacity. Yeah. Yeah, it's right now about 10% of people with COVID end up in the hospital. And we only have like 800 beds for COVID patients.  And that's, don't want to get there. No, but I can see people, you know, it's that old thing about I'm here from the government to help you. And most people, I don't know about all people, but most people would say, thank you, but leave me alone. Yeah, they say that until it's time for the stimulus check. Well, there's gotta be ways to incentivize them to participate and cooperate, that's the thing. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's good, that's a good thought. I don't know what the state has in mind for that, how we would, what kind of incentives we could put in front of people that actually cooperate. And the carrots are usually better than sticks. But we've had this culture in certain parts of our society where we disparage government workers and talk about how bad they are, but you know, the government workers I've run into are mostly working very hard to be competent. I've always had a good relationship with the tax office of the postal service and with the business registration people, they're sincerely trying hard to work and do their jobs. I agree, I agree. Yeah, and so these people want to run the government down. It's an ideology of, well, we don't want to pay for any government, so let's not have a government, claim it's all terrible. So how do you recruit one of these 420? What are they gonna be? Well Hawaii, the state of Hawaii, the Department of Health has got a joint program with the University of Hawaii. If you have at least a bachelor's degree in something, they prefer healthcare field, but something, bachelor's degree. And if you have experience in a healthcare clinical setting, you can apply to be a contact tracer and go through a day and a half course, registered in part of the state's reserve medical core to do the tracing, and then they'll be able to call on you and they prefer people are willing to do it full-time as opposed to part-time. Because yeah, which means they're foreseeing that we're gonna have to ramp up to a lot more cases than we have to do that. And you talk to a lot of people around at work, they probably have a large pool they can pick from. But the reality is it's a telephone job. You don't have to go out in the street. You don't have to meet with people who are potentially virus carriers. So what you gotta do is pick up the phone. Right, and you gotta know if you do have the opportunity to do a video chat, be able to assess the person's appearance to see, well, are they lying about how well they're feeling, that kind of thing. Video chat, that would be better than a phone, wouldn't it? Better than a phone call. But you can also listen on a phone even for breathing that sounds off, railing or any kind of, if you have been in a healthcare setting, you might be better equipped to look for those symptoms. Or ask the questions about how they feel in the diplomatic way. Wouldn't you need a pretty good database program? So this individual would fill in the fields on a database and he would ask it a lot of questions and he'd put the data in that database. And that database could do some crunching, no? Oh yeah, I expect the state has that. If they don't, then it's kind of scary because it's gonna be how human being that has to do all that crunching. And that just adds into the bottleneck to the system. On the other hand, computers can, they're only as good as they're programming and somebody could have made a programming error or assumption in programming that needs to incorrect results and undo suspicion on one group versus another group. However, that can be caught. And everything has to be tailored for Hawaii. Hawaii is unique. And for example, there was an article in the paper this morning about Marshall Islands people from the Marshall Islands. They have a unique language barrier and they're poor. So they have very little opportunity to avoid crowding. And how do we help them? And so this is, there's a whole bunch of little situations that are unique to Hawaii. And so whatever program they get can't be a one-size-fits-all for mainland. It has to be tailored to our situation. Yeah, and I suppose you control kinds of sophisticated nuance the data in there. For example, when you were talking to this person, did this person sound like he had a cough? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you check a box for that. So, okay, so you have a lot of data about the conversation and the conversation is essentially scripted. You're asking, you know, in a friendly way you're getting around to certain critical information that you're gonna put in this, in the data fields. And now the data fields are crunched. What does it do? Is it create a kind of schematic of the people who have had contact with the people? Do they all go in a larger database where you're trying to connect up with other cases elsewhere? This is pretty complicated now. Yeah, yeah. Now, like I said, you have these networks, you have the network of say churches and a network of people who go to certain health clubs and network of people with certain sports activities. And if you can line up this person, say he got it at this health club, but he's also active in this paddling team. So now, you know, you've got to look at that now. And then the machine, the contact tracer may not know that but the machine might be able to link all those things together and say, here's where the networks are touching each other of people who are doing these activities. So this is where we need to go figure out how it could spread or how to prevent it could spread or prioritize the next set of contact tracing. That's what we do. Yeah, artificial intelligence sounds really important and the thing like this. So I go to church and I'm sitting next to, you could even divide the church up into quadrants or something. I'm sitting next to somebody who had it. So you're calling me and you're asking me, telling me I've been exposed. Then a few days later, you find that there's a health club outbreak. And then you find that I belong to a health club because you asked me that. And then you find out that I went to the health club a couple of days before the outbreak in the health club. And now you really gotta leave. It's like detective work, but it's done by the crunch. It's detective work, yeah. And so you're connecting, you gotta connect all these communities.  What's the incubation period? It's all kinds of factors that go in. I would love to program something like that. Wouldn't you? I doubt it's very sophisticated right now. You and me, Mike, we could really make it sophisticated. Yeah, well, you know, like I say, there's a lot of physicists who are taking our network math experience and trying to apply it to this. It would definitely be. It's a hard little problem, an interesting problem and an important problem. And there's a lot of people who, I don't know a lot, but there's a cadre of people who could actually start tackling it that they haven't already tackled it for the state. So that would be, yeah, it's a hard important problem that's also very interesting and critical. Critical will solve. So yeah, and you're right, AI is perfect for crunching its huge numbers. So once you've done the contact tracing, really the next step is the testing. Now, this is the testing of somebody who is in the line of fire, who your AI is telling you, this person is high risk. This person might very well have caught it and somebody, maybe the machine, maybe you or a public health expert is gonna make a decision that this person is so close to the action, to the infection that we have to test him. Right, right, right. And so there's two kinds of tests. There's antibody tests, the tests where you've been exposed in the past of the disease. Then there's the DNA RNA test that says, do you have actual virus RNA in you? The antibody tests aren't so good for contact tracing because right now they have like a 10% false positive rate. So on average, a COVID-19 victim gives two to three other people the disease. So if you know 100 people, maybe you gave two of them the disease, but if you know 100 people and there's a 10% false positive rate, you have 10 other people, you're gonna falsely say have the disease if you just use the antibody test. And now you've got 10 people quarantined that don't need to be quarantined. So what you really need to do is to give everybody the PCR test, the one where it's up your nose, uncomfortable, although throat swabs are almost as effective and there may even be some evidence of salivary tests which you could do it for yourself at home, spit into a tube, send it to the lab. Are as effective in the first week that you have the disease. After the first week, you have to go deeper into the lungs or have people cough up sputum and test that. But in the first week after, that's when you gotta jump on the contact tracing to ride away because you do the least invasive possible test. But you can still do a good test. Now it takes a couple of days right now to get back your RNA, DNA tests, the PCR test. And that's a long time, but on the main line it's taking weeks for some people to get their tests back. That's just too long.  It's gonna get longer though. You know, Arosia made these certain trays I think for the testing and the supply line got cut, something about China, the supply line got cut. So now it's gonna, you can't get it. And Hawaii is the victim of that. We can't get those testing trays and result is it's gonna take longer and maybe a long time. I wanna mention that there are other possibilities for testing. There are scientists all over the country working on trying to get a fast test. And the holdup is not in the science mic, but holdup is in the FDA. Because the FDA is besieged with these applications for approval. Yeah. And we don't want them to just rubber stamp them because some of the applications may be not based on good data. So the FDA has to be careful about it, but this problem we have with the FDA is starved and criticized instead of being supported and funded makes it just that much harder. And this bias we have against foreign testing, you know, somebody at Singapore might have a great test that they've got a lot of data on. They can say, this is ready for US approval. And the US may say, no, no, you're from Singapore. I don't know that's happened, but I can envision that happening. And we need to be uniting as a world to fight this disease. Is this an existential threat to our world economy? We need to actually get together as a world and treat it as a space alien coming to invade us because that's what it is.  So, yeah. We should do sanctions against them. Against the coronaviruses? Yeah, obviously trying to undermine his election. So he should do sanctions. He probably will. But joke aside, let me ask you this question. So if one of these, you know, startup testing laboratories are in the state, they're in college campuses mostly. And they're all trying to make a fast test and maybe with sputum, you know? So if one of them prevails and gets approved and becomes available because there's manufacturing issues also, China would probably have to be the one manufacturing it. But let's assume we can get the tests out on the street like Trump promised us. He told us he swore to us back in February. And we all have tests now. And the tests are sort of like a pregnancy test where, you know, you can watch the chemical reaction visibly in your home, okay? And then you get an answer right there, five minutes. Yeah, I know how possible it is with a PCR test, but yeah, that would be cool if we could do it that way. If we could have it. As soon for this discussion, as soon for this discussion that you could do that. It's out there somewhere in the frontier. This would really expedite our whole effort at the test tracing phenomenon, I mean system, right? Wouldn't it? Well, it could, but then again, you have to then rely on those people doing the test at home to self-report accurately. I mean, they could say, oh, it's pink. Nah, I don't really have it. It's a lie.  I don't wanna, I say, you gotta rely on, you still gotta rely on humans or compliance. You still probably have to rely on contact tracing to know who needs to really be tested and whether they're likely lying or not, you know, about their results. Yeah, yeah, sure. Nobody likes it. It's a privacy issue for them. We were talking before about trying to get information, incident to the test. So one way is you make them give you the test kit back and when they do, you make them give you the information, you make them fill out a form. And then it's been 50 bucks or something, I don't know. Yeah, well, it's probably gonna cost more like 100, but that's okay. Hopefully insurance will cover it. But the other way is you don't send them the test kit until they fill out the form. You wanna test kit, five minutes, no pain, no invasive, just fill out the form. And then you get the data in advance of the test. But assume for a minute that you could get them to give you the data, get them to take the test and that you would have the results of the test. You have to make sure you get the results. Would that help? Of course it would help. You could see which businesses maybe aren't doing the proper sanitation and proper controls of infection. And it'd give you easier in to say maybe which whole industries just aren't able to do it. And then you could target your shutdowns or target your slowdowns or come up with a way to get new policies and procedures in to make it possible for those kinds of enterprises to stay open, to stay functioning. Is right now, when you don't do testing and you don't do tracing, you have on the blunt instrument of shutting whole industries down. Yeah, right, you're right, it's so blunt. But if you find that I'm COVID in this test process and you made me fill out a form about what I've been doing in my life and who I've been with and what events I've visited and so forth, then as soon as that result is in, I mean, in five minutes, you're off onto the next trace. Right. And so that speeds up the process logarithmically. Yeah. And if you have AI with this networks of networks that is tracking, that you just put new data into telling you how to prioritize your next context on your tracing list. And I think what we really need to make sure this really works is if somebody tests positive for COVID make sure they can afford to be treated for it. Now, if people are afraid to go to the hospital because they're afraid to be bankrupted by the medical bills, they're not gonna cooperate. And... Oh, I hadn't even thought of that. Yeah. And if they don't wanna cooperate, then stay at home or worse yet, go to work. Yeah, yeah. They're gonna be spreading virus all over town. Yeah, yeah, we gotta, and in Hawaii our health insurance regime is better than average on the mainland. But we still have people that don't have insurance. And we still have people that are underinsured.  There's people even in healthcare settings whose employers don't provide any paid time off.  And it's like, if they get sick, their choice is don't get paid. Or risk spreading the disease.   So let the guy go out there and spread virus. And you know he's got it. And you can make a good guess. He's not getting medical care and he's spreading the disease. Right, right, right, right. So we really need a whole ecosystem of health, care and support for people's health in this state, in this country, for all of us to be healthier. You know, if there's a whole group of people that are essential to our economy, that have no protections, we're all at risk.  I can survive this, you know. But the virus kills rich people too.  Viruses really care who you are. So that's, yeah. So who, if you add this package, I mean, these slides and this discussion with the plan, all the points we've talked about and how you, who would you take that to? Who would be in a position to implement that? Or is it multiple people? Well, yeah, of course you would take it to the governor and to the lieutenant governor and to the Ros Anderson, the people in charge of the health department. Nationally, of course, Fauci, I think would be on board with it. I mean, but then you've got to somehow convince the secretary of health and secretary of labor to do this, secretary of commerce to do this. Because we're talking about having to ensure everybody in this country that they can get treated for COVID and you've got an administration as hostile to universal health insurance, that makes it really hard. It makes it really, really hard to control this pandemic. So, and I hate to say it, I don't think that it's gonna be controlled under this current administration. But states can do things. States can still have some control within their borders, especially Hawaii, especially Alaska, both got big barriers to the mainland. We don't have people just driving over the border willy-nilly. States like Florida, California, there's long borders with other states. That's much harder, much harder. Well, all the more reason why Hawaii should focus on this, even with tourists coming, Hawaii can design protocols and systems to use testing and tracing to effectively stamp it out. And it's much better than that Plunt instrument approach about closing. But as you pointed out, we got to be able to do the testing. Yeah. And if there's a shortage of tests for whatever scientific or bureaucratic reason, then you can't really reopen the economy for tourists. Yeah. That's very bad. We got to insist on the testing being available. Yeah. Okay, Mike, we're out of time and I have to go over to Kanoi and get a haircut. All right, all right. Thank you, Mike. Great to talk to you. We'll do it again soon. Thank you. Stay safe. Bye-bye.