RCA Victor, world leader in radio first and recorded music and first in television presents transcribe the Phil Harris Alice Faye show The all-enjoyment here is the Phil Harris Alice Faye show written by Ray Singer and Nick Chevrolet with Elliott Lewis, Walter Tetley, Robert North, Janine Roos and Whitfield, Walter Sharpeness music, yours truly Bill Foreman and our special guests Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis Ordinarily Phil is a brave man and he fears nothing But tonight even he trembles a little when he finds out what the sponsor is planned for him But more about that later first a word from RCA Victor If you have a radio lying around the house that hasn't worked for months chances are you don't have to give it up for lost Probably it can easily be restored to its original fine performance If you learn that weak or worn out receiving tubes are the cause of your radio's troubles Have your serviceman replace them with top quality RCA tubes You can depend on RCA tubes to give you the best reception your radio can deliver So whatever make of radio you own when tubes fail be sure they're replaced with RCA tubes Look for the colorful red white and black RCA tube cartons on your serviceman shells or in his carrying case Dependable long-lasting RCA radio receiving tubes will help your radio perform at its best yet They cost you no more and now the stars of the RCA Victor program Alice Faye and Phil Harris All this week Phil has been appearing at the automobile show in San Francisco During his absence the sponsor has hired Martin and Lewis to take his place on today's radio program When Phil heard about this he flew down from San Francisco to protect his interests Phil has just arrived home and he and Alice are discussing the situation Alice What's the matter with our sponsor hiring Martin and Lewis to substitute for me on today's show? Is he crazy or something? Why are you so upset about Martin and Lewis taking your place? Are you afraid they're too good? What are you talking about? What should I be afraid of them guys just because Dean Martin is good-looking and sings good and Jerry Lewis is very funny doesn't mean that I'm afraid. I'm not afraid.  We have a wonderful show lined up and if you insist on being in it, you'll only mess it up I didn't mean I know what you mean You just don't want me on the show nobody wants me on the show now, that's not true Phil I want you on the show and so does Elliot why only yesterday He was saying he's gonna miss your singing and the show won't be as funny without you He said that uh-huh Yeah, good old Elliot. I knew I could count on him that boy always stands up for me when he's able to stand Come in Hi, Alice. Well, you already do the show the Martin and Lewis tonight. Oh, we're gonna have a great show without curly Elliot of course the show ain't gonna be half as funny without curly without his singing. What's there to laugh at? Well, it's just as well he went to San Francisco Elliot ma'am turn around and looking back of you. Yeah, okay Hey, it must be a clear day. I can see curly all the way up there in San Francisco He looks a little hazy, but then he always does hi curly drop us a card Oh, that's silly. He couldn't hear me all the way up there. I heard you Curly I thought you're up north. How'd you get back so fast? I flew back this morning I didn't know there were any planes out of San Francisco this morning. There weren't Well, and how did you I just got a running start at a way? Well Certainly good to have you back Alice and me have a great show with Martin and Lewis as our guests So don't forget to stay home tonight and listen to it. You couldn't get me a ticket to watch the show. Could you? Well, I'm afraid not sir. The tickets are all good. Never mind I'm gonna be on the show if it's okay with you That's okay with me curly, but I don't know what you're gonna do Jerry and me will do all the jokes Alice and Dean will do all the singing Is there anything else you can do? Well, I can play the comb and tissue paper Or I can smile like Liberace You can't tell it from the real thing or I do a sensational Mexican hat dance. I do it on a humbird I Curve brim makes it more difficult. I'm always going uphill That might be entertaining never mind.  This is where the blues was born in New Orleans There was big nose test from the greasy vest weeping in her glass of beer There was gambler Jake playing table stakes for the seaboard engineer Natchez Lil she was dressed to kill singing love songs about her man As she moment people grown. This is where torch songs began Then the cat named salmon from Alabama started shooting up the flow Everybody broke through the pistol smoke for the windows and the door while the roar roar roar up a 44 busted up Those happy scenes. This is how the blues were born in New Orleans Let's see the Mexican hat dance. What's the matter?  Your voice is fine Phil but with Dean Martin on the show the girls will be waiting for him to sing because he has a Romantic voice and you don't you kid Happens to be my business You want a romantic voice? I'll I'll give him my velvet fog job with a von Monroe float You mean to tell me you can sing a romantic ballad like Dean Martin, of course I can it's a cinch Listen to this See the pyramids along Watch the sunrise on a Tropic isle Just remember darling all the while You belong to me See the marketplace Oh Send me photographs and souvenirs Just remember when a dream appears You belong to Julius that's not a cow. It's mr. Harris. What's the matter? Is he having a bilious attack? Oh is here. Look, I wasn't having no bilious attack. I was singing in my romantic voice Emotions that was raging within me. Oh really? What kind of emotions? No, I'll sing another chorus and direct it toward my feet.  It'll get through What are you doing back here? I came back here to appear on my radio show tonight I don't trust that Martin and Lewis. They're lovely get too funny. Then I'm gonna lose my job You don't have to worry about losing your job. I don't cost not all looks voice and talent There's nothing to worry about except trying to find a nice mr. Harris could get another job in a minute He's a very talented man. Oh, I know in fact only this morning I was lying on the couch thinking out loud and I was saying Phil Harris is the funniest man on the radio He has the greatest voice and he's the best-looking guy I've ever seen and I also think that's as far as I got Why Look kid if you're having trouble with your head don't waste your time with a psychiatrist take it to a taxi dermis Better yet drill three holes in it. We can bowl it around till we get the kinks out of it Getting late. We're supposed to be at NBC for rehearsal. We don't want to keep Martin and Lewis wait I'm coming. You know something. I can't wait to get on that show with them two guys I'll show them a thing or two about how to be funny Yeah, oh, I gotta go wrong and watch this slaughter They're gonna barbecue this ham hop Cast is all here everybody except Martin and Lewis. Oh, they're not here yet. How good let's start the show Maybe we can get it done before they get here Well, you really are worried are you afraid that they're going to be funnier than you are it's possible After all they have an advantage over me. They're natural comedians. Whereas I'm really a lover Just toying with comedy so that's why I get hysterical every time you kiss me Don't give away our family secrets or I'll take away your electric blanket But frankly, I am a little worried these guys are big stars and well with them on the show Nobody's gonna pay no attention to me a curly They don't have to be on the show What do you mean these guys are accustomed to having people treat them like big stars and make a fuss over them So all we have to do is ignore them not pay any attention to them Yeah We'll make believe we don't even know who they are and they might get in solid leave That's a great plan fellas, but they'll never know what we're doing to them as long as we don't tell them So let's make a pact let's all swear not to tell them. Hey, that's a good idea. I Swear not to tell them. I swear not to tell them. I swear not to tell them How about you Julius Big trap clothes now look this is important to all of us now It's agreed that when they come in we'll all act as if we don't know who they are now I don't want nobody It's a pleasure for us to be here He's here for the pleasure. I'm here for the money Please folks we feel honored to have been asked to appear on one of America's great family shows don't we care?  I goofed. Yeah I shall try it again. It's a pleasure to the be the guest of Alice and Phil kettle Oh He's the foreign-looking gentleman on my right. We'll sing for you. Isn't he pretty girls?  I Don't care if the sun don't shine to get my loving in the evening Stop that's enough. Don't make it too long the money short folks We're running over so good night everyone good night everybody we said good night for home already lady You want a third well put your shoes on and get out of here Are you college boys finished?  Yeah, it looks like a fox tail hanging from a hot rod That's rich But we're not college boys our names are Martin and Lewis we work for NBC and they sent us down here Oh, then you must be the maintenance man. What happened to the two char woman that usually clean up Just a minute buddy We're busy now you can come back after the show and scrape the gum from under the seats He don't know us what's the matter with him? I don't know he doesn't look like a drinking man I resent that Look fellas, I don't know who you are, but you'll have to get off the stage We got a show to put on there. That's what we're here for we're the guests on the show Oh What type of work do you do? Oh, we're funny men. We tell jokes. We'll give you away for instance Dean, let's give him number 2028 and splendid. Yeah, that's a real old whiz bang jay Were you a pretty baby? I don't know all I know is a day I was born my father called the insurance company and said I want to report an accident Ha Dean he don't like it Well jerry you see I like it why he don't like it I don't know why he don't like it. I like it. I like it. I like her. She's my type Thanks, you're a pretty one my dear. We were meant for each other. Let me take you away from all this Shall we go to a cocktail bar and lounge? Hey, wait a minute jerry. This is my wife. She's alice fey alice fey. Ho ho. She's rich Hey, look fellas like I told you we got a show to do and we can't be bothered by a couple of tourists coming And all right hold it down there feel break it up. What are you trying to do? You know who we are? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew who you are Dean. I was just pretending I didn't know you fellas Why did you do that? What's the matter? No, do you want us on a show?  Well, it's not that at all. It's just that we do a family show and I don't know whether you'd fit into it Why shouldn't I fit into a family show? I come from a family Family of what Of course, if you fellas think you'd like to take a crack at this type of show We're going to be glad to have you the scripts already. Do we have funny lines? Do you have funny lines? Do you have funny lines? Dean he ain't answering the question Or you just stop where and we'll find out if we have any funny lines when we rehearse the script Oh, no, look fellas. You don't have to rehearse.  What didn't work. We're stuck with them. What do we do now? They're going to be funny on this show and murder me Why do they have to be funny because I saw the script and their lines are very funny We have an hour in which to make their lines very unfunny Well, you mean change the script Hey, they'd make excellent straight man Shall we have a go at it I just sent Julius to get Martin and Lewis and you'd better get ready. The show goes on in a minute Good good. I can't wait to get started Say, you don't seem to be too worried anymore about Dean and Jerry being too funny Don't worry. They won't be you see Elliott and I just rewrote their parts. You mean you the comedy lines We gave them shouldn't happen to H. V. Calton born You mean you gave them nothing but straight lines Oh, I wouldn't say that. We gave them such humorous gems as What is it? Well And heart the doorbell Not to mention such side splitters as goodness gracious. It's grandmother Anyone for tennis and they'll be immediate seating in the balcony, sir Phil, I don't think you should do that. I really well. We're all ready to go on fail You can start the show now. Oh good. Dane good. We're going to do a sketch Before you start that show mr. Harris. I want to know do we have any funny lines now? The sketch is a romantic triangle mean why you don't answer the question Alice knife play a husband and wife and you guys are her lovers. That sounds friendly, but do we have funny lines? uh Yeah, you might say that What are you crying about he answered the question.  We're ready to go on here The or enjoyment here is the alice fey phil haras show with their special guests that famous team Tonight we present a dramatic playlet starring alice fey and phil haras the names of all other characters in this play are fictitious Dean fictitious and jerry fictitious As our play opens our heroine is at home Ah my husband's gone at last and here I am alone with my lovers dean and jerry Gee it isn't every girl who has one and a half lovers Dean darling now that we're alone tell me how you feel about me pour out your heart and tell me everything you feel Well, oh, that's what I wanted to hear And you jerry I want to hear the same thing from you. Tell me how you feel about me Well, you say it even better than he does I guess I'm more passionate Jerry you've always been the only man in my life and every time I look at you There's one question that comes to my mind. I must know I must know What is it? Are you for real?  They steal my character. Where are the funny jokes away? Oh, I can't decide between the two of you you dean.  I'll just have to Park the doorbell That joke was so big it took two of us to handle it I know who that is.  It's grandmother It's who grandmother that's what it says on the paper here But that line don't make sense. You think that line don't make sense. Wait till you hear my next line Wait a minute. What's going on here? You fellas are making love to my wife and I'm not going to stand here and watch this Do you hear me? I'm not going to stand here and watch this. There'll be immediate seating in the balcony, sir Is that what I mean D? Alice, how could you do this to me?  I come home and find you in the arms of larle and hardy Of course, I know you how could I ever forget you every spring? I see your face on a bottle of bock bear Please will you just read your answer? It's a big yuck. Now. Let's continue. What are you doing in my house, sir? Do you know who I am? I happen to be of course I know you I saw your picture in a current issue with a radio mirror magazine. This is a yuck Dean this is a funny line Well, not quite as funny as the line I have coming up. Oh, this one's a smasher What is it? Gee mom, you've installed a culligan water softener Culligan is a funny wife Fellas, please we've got to finish the script. Why all I got left is anyone for tennis You got anything left jaren?  All right, but we're going to do it our way hit a chair Wait up, you can't do that. This is the rca victor show quieter.  Good kick it over here and I'll kick it back Fellas, you gotta stop this and the doctor said when I go to bed I should wear a night cap. I tried it for a week, but I had to stop Why the ginger ale kept dripping in my eye down the curtain play the music everybody So in just a moment the easiest and best way to play your 45 records is with rca victor's victrola 45 record changer It's the simplest surest automatic record changer ever made Why it's so easy to operate even a child can do it and here are the reasons There are no troublesome posts to adjust Records slip on the large center spindle so easily you can load up to 14 45 rpm records with one hand And because the victrola 45 has the changing mechanism in the spindle Records change from the center the simple modern way And here's something you may not realize 45 is the lowest priced automatic changer today by far Ask to see the automatic victrola 45 attachment. There's no other automatic changer within twice the price Rca victor's automatic 45 attachment which can play through any radio phonograph or tv set Costs as little as 16 dollars and 75 cents eastern list price You can enjoy all the advantages of the 45 system in rca victor's automatic three speed players too These have the same ingenious large spindle as the one on the victrola 45 player But on the three speed changer this spindle is removable So you can play your 78 and long play records on the smaller spindle Choose the player design for your record collection from the wide assortment of automatic victrola 45 players And automatic three speed players at your rca victor dealers This is phil again Folks, I want to thank dean martin and jerry lewis for coming over here and helping us so wonderfully With our little show i'm going to tell you something No wonder these two guys have been so successful Because well they're just regular guys they do so many wonderful things for so many people That they've got to be successful The 1953 red cross fund needs 93 million dollars to help our service men and women To conduct the vital blood program and to aid victims of disaster Answer the call contribute generously to the american red cross Thanks everyone for being so nice and good night. Good night everybody Included in this program transcribe were dean martin and jerry lewis Who may be seen currently in the paramount picture the stew the part of julius was played by walter tetley The wonderful songs from two of broadway's hit musicals are now on rca victor records From the musical comedy wish you were here the original cast sings the popular title song and three other hits And the stars of lennard sylman's new faces sing four of their reviews top numbers Listen to these new show music albums new faces and wish you were here at your record dealers tomorrow They're only one dollar and fifty cents each on rca victor's 45 extended play records Next here theater guild on the air over nbc


So, we have the Boltzmann probability distribution, which tells us how to find the probabilities that a system is going to be in a particular state if we know the energies of the states. And in particular, we need to know the energies of all the states. In order to calculate the probabilities, we need to know Q. Q is the sum of these Boltzmann factors, the sum of e to the minus energy over kT for all the states the system can occupy. So if we know all the energies of all the states, then we're good. We can calculate Q. We can calculate the probabilities. That works fine for a system with a finite number of states, like butane, where there's an anti-state and two ghost states, or cyclohexane, where there's a boat state and a chair state. If we know what the states are and we know the energies of all of the states, then we're fine. But think for a second what might happen if we have a system like a hydrogen atom, where we know that the electron and the hydrogen atom might be in the 1s orbital, or the 2s orbital, or the 2p, or the 3s, or 3p, or 3d, or the 4spdf, and so on. So there's an infinite number. I can never run out of states to name. It might be in any one of those possible states. In order to calculate Q, I need to know the energies of all these states and what's an infinite list of states. So how do I go about calculating the probability that the molecule is in any one of these states if I can't stop writing down the infinite list of the states? I would need to be able to perform a sum over an infinite number of Boltzmann factors. And there are some tricks for doing infinite sums that we'll have occasion to use occasionally in the future. But for right now that sounds like a lot of work, writing down an infinite number of terms, summing up an infinite number of Boltzmann factors before we can even calculate Q to get started on the probabilities of each of these terms. So it turns out what we often want to do is when we don't know or can't know the energies of all the states, is to calculate the relative energies of two different states. So for example, let's use 1 and 2, well, we can use A and B. So in a trick, a lot like something we did a couple of video lectures ago, the probability of any particular state, state B is 1 over Q e to the minus energy B over KT using the Boltzmann distribution. Probability of some different state is 1 over Q e to the minus energy of that state divided by KT. If I divide these two things by each other, the ratio of PB to PA, that's just the Boltzmann term for B divided by the Boltzmann term for A. And now I can see that the Q's cancel. The ratio of these two exponentials, e to the minus eB over KT minus e to the minus EA over KT. That ratio of two exponentials is e to the difference between the two energies, or the two exponents, which I can also write as e to the minus delta e over KT, again, where delta e is the difference between the first state that I named the one in the numerator and the energy of the second state, the one in the denominator. So what that tells us is I've got narrative Q. I don't need to complete this infinite sum. I don't need to know what all these energies are. In order to calculate the relative probability of state B relative to state A, I only need to know the energies of those two states in particular A and B. So when we don't know all the energies, we can find the relative probabilities of two states if we know their energies. So that's an important result and one that we'll use frequently. I can use that to do an example. And let's stick with this hydrogen atom example. Electrons in a hydrogen atom in some particular orbital. The energy of the 1s orbital, that one I can call zero. That's my zero of energy. I'll draw an energy diagram. So here's the energies. There's the energy of the 1s orbital. The 2s orbital has a higher energy. That energy is a particular value in joules. That works out to be a very small number of joules, 10 to minus 18 joules, 1.63 times 10 to minus 18 joules. So that energy is higher for the 2s state than the 1s state. And those aren't the only two states. There's 3s and 3p and 3d and many other states in this system. But if those are the only two energies I know or the only two I want to work with, that still is enough information if I am asked how likely is it that I find an electron in the 2s state of a hydrogen atom relative to the 1s state at a particular temperature. And let's do 298 Kelvin. So we have enough information to solve that problem. We just need to do this calculation. The relative probabilities is e to the minus difference in energy over kt. So that's e to the minus difference in energies is 2s minus 1s over kt. So if I plug in numbers, that difference of energy, 2s is the upper state, has this much energy, 1.63 times 10 minus 18th joules we were given. Subtract from that 0, the energy of the lower state. So that's the difference is the same as the energy of the upper state. I need to divide that by Boltzmann's constant. And also divide it by the temperature, 298. Let's look at units before we go to the calculator. In this fraction in the exponent I've got a joules in the numerator, joules in the denominator. The denominator has a 1 over Kelvin and a Kelvin. Both of those cancel. So the exponent is unitless. And I can plug those into a calculator. If I do just the numbers in the exponent, I find that that's e to the negative 396. 10 to the minus 18 is quite a bit larger than 10 to the minus 23, even after the 10 to the minus 23 is multiplied by a few hundred Kelvin. So that ratio of numerator to denominator is about 400. Up in the exponent of an exponential, e to the minus 400, e to the minus 396, that's an almost ridiculously small number. That's something like 9 times 10 to the minus 173. So that's the numerical answer. How likely am I to be found in the 2s orbital of 100 and atom relative to the 1s to being found in the 1s orbital? Very unlikely. You find an electron in the 2s orbital of 100 and atom only one time out of 10 to the 172 or 3 times that you have 100 and atom. So almost never will you find at 298 Kelvin an electron in the 2s state of 100 and atom. Almost always you'll find it in the 1s state. And that matches what we expected from this problem. If I had asked you to recall what is the electron configuration of 100 and atom from general chemistry, you'd say that's 1s1. There's one electron found in the 1s orbital. We didn't teach you in general chemistry. Sometimes it's in the 1s. Sometimes it's in the 2s orbital. We taught you it's always in the 1s orbital. And we see that that's not literally true very, very rarely, but extremely rarely. You can find an electron in the 2s orbital at room temperature, but it's so rare that we don't really need to consider the possibility. So the Boltzmann distribution is telling us exactly how rare it is that we find electrons in the 2s orbital relative to the 1s orbital. So notice we've got a numerical answer to this question. We didn't need to know energies of anything other than the 1s and the 2s orbitals. We didn't need to know the energy of the 2p, 3s, and so on, all these other orbitals. Notice also that when we computed this answer, all that mattered was the difference in energy between the two orbitals. In the numbers I gave you, I said energy of the 1s orbital is 0, and energy of the 2s orbital was 1.63 times 10 to the minus 18th joules. The difference in energy is 1.63 times 10 to the minus 18th joules. In a different set of units, so in my way of looking at it, this was the 0 of energy. But from a different way of looking at it, one that's actually more common that we'll see later on in the semester, if we put the 0 of energy elsewhere and the energy of the 1s state in some different unit convention would be negative 2.18 times 10 to the minus 18th. The energy of the 2s state would be negative 0.55 times 10 to the minus 18th joules. Those energies, negative 2.18 times 10 to the minus 18th, that's not 0. Negative 0.55 is not 1.63. But still, the difference in energies between these two values is the same as the difference in energies between these two values. And when it comes to determining whether the molecule occupies the 1s orbital or the 2s orbital and with what probabilities, all that ends up mattering is the difference in energies. It doesn't matter where we put the 0 as long as the difference of energies is the same. So now we know how to calculate probabilities given the energies. The next question is going to be, where do those energies come from? If I give you the energies, you can now calculate the probabilities or the relative probabilities. But we'd also like to be able to predict what the energies are. If I say, for a hydrogen atom or some other atom, what are the energies, we can either go into the lab and measure them or we can predict them with physical chemistry. And in order to do that, we're going to have to use quantum mechanics. So that's what we'll start next, is learning a little bit about quantum mechanics.


Good afternoon everyone and welcome to this IEA online event on LGBTI equality in the EU, which coincides with the launch of the European Commission's strategy on LGBTI equality in the Union for the period 2021-25. My name is Peter Gunning. I'm moderating this event which falls within the scope of the IEA's current Global Europe project. We're delighted to have two distinguished speakers with us today on our panel, Minister Thomas Byrne and Michael O'Flaherty, whom I will introduce shortly. You'll be able to join this discussion in a variety of ways through Zoom, of course, and you may submit questions which we will come towards the end of the session through the Zoom Q&A function. You can also follow the event on Twitter at IEA and if you're watching on YouTube, the discussion or the chat function there can also be used to submit questions. The entire event is live streamed and is on the record. So Minister Byrne will speak to us first. Thomas Byrne is the Irish Minister of State for European Affairs with responsibilities both at the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Foreign Affairs and has been in that role since July of this year. He is a member of our Irish Parliament for me, East, and he has also been a member of the Irish Senate and is a qualified solicitor. Mr Byrne has a great deal of experience compressed into the period between July and December from the preparation that he will be involved in for meetings of the European Council, most recent one last Thursday and Friday, and his representation of Irish views in the General Affairs Council, as well as through, I'm sure, the Minister's interactions with his counterparts in the governments of the 27. Michael O'Flaherty is a distinguished name in fundamental rights both in Ireland and in Europe and indeed internationally. He is with us today in his capacity as the director of the European Union's Fundamental Rights Agency, which is based in Vienna, and which happily has this year celebrated its 10th anniversary, I think. Michael has a distinguished career both on the academic side in Nottingham and in his native Galway at the National University of Ireland. He has worked in a UN context both in headquarters and in the field. And he has chaired the Northern Ireland Chief Commissioner, he was of the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. And he is a solicitor of the Irish courts, and he has a Doctor of Laws from the National University of Ireland. The Fundamental Rights Agency is a most valued organ of the European Union, providing it is a center of both reference and excellence for the promotion and protection of fundamental rights throughout the Union, and I'm sure that it's a contribution to the work which has gone into the Commission's recent publication of its strategy is very, very substantial. Without further ado, I'll invite Minister Byrne to address you first for about 15 minutes, and that would be followed by an address from the director of the FRA Michael O'Flaherty. Minister Byrne, the floor is yours. Sure, we say the screen. We're in unprecedented times and we're doing these all the time and I suppose we're losing the ability to meet each other personally, but actually in my experience we're getting greater numbers attending many webinars. I think that's one advantage if there is an advantage in these dreadful pandemic times. I just want to thank you, Peter, for chairing it and it's an honour to speak in your kind words. And to thank the IIEA for the excellent work that you continue to do, and it's done throughout this year. I mean, it's extraordinary, the list of events that you have with high profile speakers. I know that you had hoped to have my French counterpart Clermont Beaune last Monday, I believe, at the Institute. He told me he's very keen to come to Ireland as soon as possible again, so perhaps hopefully when a deal is done. I had no doubt that you would be extending an invitation again to him if you can. And delighted to join Michael as well and I'm constantly promoting careers in Europe and the European Union and associated institutions and European bodies and I'm glad to see Michael leading light in that regard, promoting human rights in Ireland, the EU and indeed the world itself, because we are the beacon, we shall be the beacon for human rights around the world. When we see the rule of law under trash in democracies, when we see human rights under trash in democracies, somebody has to shine, hold that torch. We all need to do that, but Michael surely has a very important leadership function there. And again, it's just another example and I've been given these every day to both to school children and to college graduates and to young professionals in terms of what Irish people can achieve and what we can actually do at the European level. And it's not just about a career, but actually, as I said, shining that light and promoting what are the fundamental values of the European Union treaties, which are really corresponding with the fundamental values. And in principle of our own constitution as interpreted by the courts and developed actually throughout the decades. Today's discussion is one that affects each and every one of us. We are all affected when we live in an unjust society. We all have a role to play in promoting and protecting LGBTI plus rights. And I think it's never been more important to add that we do that, that we heighten the profile of that issue, such as in these webinars, and indeed I'm encouraging my my my doll and channel colleagues to heighten the profile of this issue in the national parliament as well. I think we think there's a lot of work we don't, as you said, to shine that light. But I'd like to reflect briefly on the situation in Ireland. I think our society has changed a lot. Over the past 30 years, we have seen major progress. We've seen changes of laws, but they, as I say, an Irish average known and change of mentality as it was. And it's worth remembering it's only in 1993 that Marguerite Quinn, following on from the case brought by David Norris, decriminalizing doll Aaron, same sex sexual activity that can be hard to believe but it is still illegal in many countries in the world as well. So positive progress has continued to be made of course since then with a range of legislation that has gradually made it easier for LGBTI plus people to live full and free life in Ireland. But there's work to be done, of course, and certainly work to be done around Europe. I'm sure many of us can recall the celebrations in May 2015 when Ireland became the first country in the world to have a popular and was a popular vote for marriage equality. The vote and the celebrations that followed were an important demonstration of the progress that we have made as a society, but also a signal as well to the wider world and I think a really important signal. Because that's certainly achieved. As I said, it was international first but it certainly achieved international prominence and paved the way then for some other societies to respond positively as well. Unfortunately, it didn't pay the way for different societies. There's certain other societies have maybe gone in reverse on these issues. There has been progress, but as I said already I'm conscious that there's still much more to do. And now the responsibility is not placed on the enormous shoulders of courageous individuals. And I certainly see that when I see David Norris and I'm glad to have a good conversation with him last week in the dog canteen. You know, the work that he did over the years and many others aside as well as the suffering as well that some people did many LGBTI people had to suffer over the years because of societal attitudes. But the government of Ireland and the governments of many other countries were actively promoting and protecting LGBTI plus rights all around the world. Obviously Ireland's been on a journey ourselves and we want other people to buy that ticket to join that journey. And protecting and promoting the rights of LGBTI plus people is a key priority under our strategy, the global Ireland's foreign policy for changing world. So our efforts so as we see them on the international stage are strengthened when we act together with fellow EU member states, as majority are of like mind, and indeed the institutions of the EU. Irish missions then cooperate closely on the ground with EU delegations and embassies of other EU member states to advocate for the rights of LGBTI plus persons, including advocating for the criminalization of homosexuality where it exists. And against this criminalization where this is contemplated. Our ambassadors and diplomatic officials around the world I have to say is someone with a right down exactly what they're doing in this area. It really is extraordinarily heroic work and a great way for them. But the EU has an important role to play obviously as a region that upholds the rights of individuals. But as a union, we have to continue to make sure our own house is in order. We have to develop to the standard set in our treaties and of our own rhetoric. That's not to say that we can only raise questions of orders once we're perfect, but encouraging progress externally must go hand in hand with securing and encouraging progress internally. So the recognition of the need for internal purpose is very important. So it's really pleased to see that the European Commission was publishing this new strategy, which Ursula von der Leyen had committed to on her taking up some positions as president of the European Commission. Ireland welcomes that the launch by the European Commission of the EU that to be to use quality strategy 2020 to 2025. It's particularly important in the face in open some countries increasing discriminations and not just in the EU, but worldwide on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. So Ireland very strongly supports the European Commission and its work in this area as the guardians of the treaties. This is the Commission's job to ensure that member states live up to the value of the European Union as enshrined in our treaties. It's an extremely important step that the Commission has lost this document that addresses the inequalities and challenges facing LGBTQ people in order to move to a union of equality.  I mean, that's right. Ireland welcomes the target actions across four pillars, attacking discrimination against LGBTQ people, ensuring their safety, building inclusive societies, and leading the call for equality around the world. The European Union and equality in Europe as well. The European Union must have a strong voice in multilateral fora, and we must lead the call for equality around the world. LGBTI plus persons continue to face discrimination of violence in many countries, discriminatory laws criminalize same sex relations in some countries, exposing people to criminal sanctions on the basis of their identity, and in several countries to death penalty. To this end, Ireland will continue to raise its voice and do everything within our power in support of LGBTI plus rights international. Ireland strongly supports efforts in international human rights forums, including Human Rights Council and the UN General Assembly Third Committee, which address LGBTI plus rights. In 2019, we joined the Equal Rights Coalition, an intergovernmental coalition of 42 countries dedicated to advancing the human rights of LGBTI plus people and promoting inclusive development. We also welcome the commitment in the strategy that the Commission would support member states to develop national plans on LGBTI Q equality. This is an area where Ireland has placed high priority on recent years and made significant efforts. In 2019, the Department of Justice launched our own inclusion strategy. The overall aim of this strategy is to target discrimination, promote inclusion, and improve quality of life and well-being for LGBTI plus people. In 2018, the Department of Children produced a national LGBTI plus youth strategy, which is the first of its kind in the world. This strategy seeks to ensure a cross-governmental approach to enhance the lives of young LGBTI plus people and address some of the key challenges they may face in their day-to-day lives. These strategies provide an important written statement of our intentions in this area, but the challenges can't be underestimated. I'm confident that working in consultation and collaboration with representatives of groups and indeed the LGBTI plus community, we will be able to make even further progress. At home and abroad, there is still much work to be done and lots of challenging conversations to come and I have no doubt that the questions will be challenging. I assure you today that we're committed to promoting and protecting human rights and living up to our responsibilities at home within the EU internationally. I look forward to hearing more from Michael in the broader EU context and look forward to hearing questions from everyone joining us online. Without reservation, I would say, and maybe the questions can follow on from this, the issue of the particular discrimination that's going on in Poland is striking a chord with a lot of people around Europe. It attracts huge media attention and I think that is one way to try and get progress there, get change in Poland. It's very worrying, it's very sad and it's not really what Europe should be about for a month. Minister, thank you very much indeed for a very wide-ranging introduction to the theme and you've brought up points which I imagine we will be returning to during the last mentioned one there in the context perhaps even last week's European Council. I'm now happy to give the word to the director of the Fundamental Rights Agency, Michael O'Flaherty. Michael, you're welcome to take the floor. Peter, thank you very much indeed and thanks to you, to you Minister Byrne and to the IEA for today's event. I'm very happy to be with you. I would wish it were physical, but there'll be another opportunity I guess once we get out of this crazy year. Dear friends, 13 years ago, almost to the day, I was in Jogjakarta in Indonesia. I was spending a few days there among a group of human rights specialists to map out the application of existing human rights law with regard to the lived experience of people of diverse sexual orientations and gender identities. We developed what became known as the Jogjakarta Principles, which played a role in shining a light on the extent to which LGBTI people were not being paid attention to within the general mainstream promotion and protection of human rights and how as a result they were being shoved to the very age edges. We had some success with those principles, but even with that success, I could not have believed 13 years ago where I'd be eight years ago. When I was at the event, the minister mentioned I was in the upper castle yard for the count of the vote in the referendum on marriage equality. It's hard to believe that so much could have been achieved in so few years, but for all the euphoria of the upper castle yard in 2015, of course nobody claims that things were suddenly made perfect with equal enjoyment of human rights for everybody. And we've been increasingly worried in an EU setting over recent years of a decline going backward as much as a failure to progress across so many aspects of human experience. It's on that basis that we did a major survey, the results of which we published just last May on the experience of what it's like to be LGBTI and living here in the European Union. We surveyed 140,000 people, largest survey of its kind ever attempted anywhere in the world. We covered all 27 member states. And since the data was gathered in 2019, we also included the United Kingdom, as well as two observer states to the agency, Serbia and North Macedonia. Frankly, the results were deeply discouraging. They confirmed the anecdotal indications that things are bad and in some places getting worse. And when I present you with just a few figures now, I'll also compare those figures to those of a survey my agency conducted back in 2012 to give a sense of the changes over time. Firstly, when we asked people if they had experienced forms of harassment or violence during the past five years, 58% said yes they had back in 2012, the figure was 45. We asked them, had they experienced an act of discrimination in the past year. By the way, these are the EU averages, of course. We asked had they experienced an act of discrimination, 43%, almost half said yes. Earlier in 2012, that had been just 37%. Things get exponentially worse, by the way, when we break down within the LGBTI groups, the different experiences of the different groups, such as T, trans and I intersex. So when trans people were asked if they experienced discrimination, it was 60% had said yes they had within the past year. Now, if somebody is attacked or is subject to some form of act of discrimination, how often do they report the matter to the authorities. This, by the way, is a critical question because it's the basis on which we can measure the levels of the problem in our societies. And therefore the answer is very worrying. Just 14% of people said they reported a physical attack and just 17% an act of discrimination. Then we turn to logically enough following that because the reason people don't complain is because they're afraid of the outcomes. We asked about the levels of confidence in the state. How trusting are the LGBTI communities in the willingness of the state to protect them or to put it the other way. To what extent do they lack the confidence. The EU wide average was 66% lack confidence. But here I would have to say is one of the questions asked where there's the widest disparity from country to country. So, to take two examples in Malta, 83% of people said they trust the state to take care of them. And then when you go to Poland and ask the question, the figure plummets to 4%. Just 4% said they trusted the state in Poland. Let me get to some Ireland specific content. Let me just report some encouraging use. It's not a good news story, but there were some encouraging indicators. The first was that in general, we saw since 2012 a notable drop in the perception by the LGBTI community members that society is prejudiced. Another way around that society is growing more tolerant is a wide and growing view. We also saw age disparities. The younger people are the more hopeful they are of their society. And we saw changes in the school experience, a greater openness and willingness of schools to engage with the diversity of their pupils. So let me come to Ireland. And Ireland is like Malta, frankly, very similar figures is puzzling. There's a great contradiction in the Irish and the Maltese figures. When we ask the LGBTI people from Ireland, did they experience a drop in levels of prejudice in society? Unsurprisingly, 77% said yes, they had seen a drop or a rise in respect. And when we asked about levels of trust in the government, the figure was a very healthy 67% said they do trust the government to take care of their interests. But after that, when we looked at other elements of the lived experience, the Irish figures look more or less the same as the EU averages. So how many, what percentage harassed in the past year in Ireland 37% EU average 38% how many had been subject to a physical attack in the past five years in Ireland 11% the EU 11% how many had experienced an act of discrimination in the past year, 38%, which is actually 10 points higher than the EU average of 28. And then when I find always very telling. It's a real indicator of levels of trust and comfort in your society. How many same sex couples are willing to walk down the street holding hands. In Ireland, the figure is just 41%. 59% of the LGBTI people questioned said they would not hold hands with the same sex partner walking down the street, which is more or less the same as the EU average, which is 61%. So maybe we can come back in the discussion to this how we can have the amazing legislative changes that we've already referred to, we can have the sense within a community of greater acceptance and trust, and at the same time, comparable to the EU I figures for discrimination harassment under reporting and so forth. So, but but let me move on to the second and final part of my opening words about the necessary responses in law policy and practice. And this is where I really welcome the IE a initiative to mark the adoption of the EU strategy. It is a game changer. On November 12 November just a couple of weeks ago, an equality strategy for LGBTI Q people from 2020 to 2025. There are very important recommendations in here that can and I believe will make a difference. I'm particularly pleased that many of them build on recommendations we have the Fundamental Rights Agency made a few months earlier in the context of our new survey results. Among the action points of the strategy are first, a commitment by the EU Commission to extend the list of EU hate crimes to make clear EU wide the LGBTI Q dimension of hate crime. Second, there's a renewed commitment by the Commission to deliver on the long awaited equal treatment directive, whether it can be delivered or not as an entirely different matter, but the political will is clearly there. Third, the Commission in this context but also others has committed to do a health check of the employment equality directive to make it more as we say fit for purpose. There's a commitment in the strategy by the Commission to strengthen equality bodies at national levels, including with resources and funds. Very interestingly, the Commission has indicated that it will start a pathway towards mutual recognition of the diversity of the forms of family, including to protect free movement in the context of what are sometimes called rainbow families. And there's a strong commitment to support member states and civil society for all manner of initiatives to strengthen the place of the LGBTI communities. So these are great. These are really important. We're right at the beginning, but I have no doubt, not least given the leadership of Commissioner Helen Adali, who was transformative of the legal regime in Malta when she was minister there. I've no doubt that the strategy will get serious attention. But let's keep in mind, of course, that it's limited by definition. It's an EU strategy, it's limited to the EU competency space, and much of our lived experiences beyond the EU competency. So for the delivery of the strategy itself, but more broadly, to deliver for true equality and true respect for everyone, the commitment on the part of member states is absolutely critical. And here let me come back to a number of recommendations of my own agency has issued in recent months, which I think I could suggest can be read in a complimentary way to those put forward by the Commission. In the first place, we're calling for a national action plans for respect for the rights of LGBTI persons and I listened carefully to Minister Bern just now speaking about the Irish strategies, which obviously I welcome. But more generally, we don't have action plans everywhere in the EU. And we need smart planning that's time bound has clear goals that's matched by the necessary data collection, so the progress can be measured. We also need in our action plans and our strategies in every effort of our states. We need to identify the distinct experience of the different communities within the LGBTI LGBTQ world. The experience is very different. As I said earlier, if you are trans or intersex, your life experience is going to be much more challenging than if you're LGB as a general rule and we have to, we have to focus attention on particular and diverse needs. We also need to pay attention to how we all live our lives. We don't live in a box. I'm in a in a heterosexual box or I'm in a gay box or I'm at this or I'm at that. We live much more complex realities than that. We live so called intersectional lives. And we have to take account of this dimension of how we live our ordinary day to day life in our policy responses.  And I could give many other examples, but I choose that one because that's actually one that the Commission focuses on in the new strategy. And just one or two last points. Again, regardless of the strategic approach we take the nature of our action planning of our joined up responses. We need an all of society commitment to investing in the celebration of our diversity. I think Ireland does well. Irish people do well and generously I think, but we must never lose sight of its importance of everybody investing in in in celebrating the the difference in our community has one of its deepest and graces, richness is at the My very last point is that, and I would make this point if I was speaking today about the rights of Roma, the rights of migrants, the rights of older people doesn't matter which group, but it's no less important here that we not work for the human rights of the LGBTI Q communities, not for but with it's vital to success that there's a respectful co traveling, hand in hand, if I heard that phrase from earlier to deliver on our objectives. And so, Peter, if I could just wrap up with one memory from jog Jakarta 13 years ago, after we published the jog Jakarta principles. Somebody posted on social media, I forget who and from where to be honest, but he posted a message on social media he said, yesterday, I was nothing, but today, I'm a human being. What he meant was he had, he had seen in these principles that human rights also applied to him that he was a rights holder who could demand and claim his basic entitlements in society. And I think our goal has to be to help work with everybody everywhere who needs that help so that everybody can make that great claim that maybe yesterday I was nothing, but today I'm a human being living with full honoring of my dignity within my society. Thank you. Thank you for a very inspiring introduction, Michael. And I noticed, of course that you're drawing on a tremendous range of information and data available to you and through the work of the agency in putting together that picture of the the across the European Union and likely beyond it, you mentioned Serbia and North Macedonia. There is a problem, it seems to me in using the EU average approach in that the range across the continent is very, very marked and wide. Do you think that it's fair? Is it accurate to think of this progress in relation to LGBTI plus rights as exhibiting a West East divide across the Union. I think that in general, is that something that you think is a fair depiction of our of our Union, and indeed for the minister as well whether in his interactions with his colleagues, that is something that he perceives. Either of you first I don't mind. I think I should defer to the minister. Excuse me. I'm not engaged in now. An inappropriate occasions would look to know if I was muted there. No, I think East West is probably a bit simplistic I think, look, and even even generalizing ever countries as well I think can be simplistic too. You have policies of certain governments of certain countries or the facilitation of policies in within certain countries, even at a local level. And is actually in some cases in Poland, particularly causing huge angst among many Polish people, I would say. And so I wouldn't like to simplistically do it on that geographical basis. I think we have many allies in Eastern Europe. We do have to. I think some of the issues have really really risen to the surface very very quickly in the last year and a half some really really observable issues that we really need to tackle very very quickly. And I think I think the only way we can do that really is through engagement with Poland and similar countries but encouraging them and encouraging their own citizens as well and putting pressure and being constructed we are all friends in this European Union. It's a cold Israel just Polish colleague. I've written to my Polish colleague, the ambassadors didn't tremendous work in Poland as well in terms of opening the profile I think that we need to really all of us up our game on this very very quickly. Because I think things could begin to get out of hand but no I wouldn't generalize it even within countries I have to say. Peter I do agree, I actually entirely agree with the minister there and in fact our figures dispute this idea of an east west divide in some kind of crude fashion. I will already I already gave you the Irish stats which show that we're not out of the not out of the woods. We have problems ourselves. Let me give you a shocking data set from this recent survey of ours. The worst evidence of victimization and violence isn't coming from, let's say, the Eastern European region. It's coming from the following countries France, Netherlands, Belgium and Sweden. I don't realize any simplistic analysis. And again as the minister said I couldn't agree more. Some of the most passionate defenders some of the bravest civil society standing up for these issues are to be found in exactly the countries that I think are maybe in some people's minds here but I actually as a general rule I mean it kind of in an Irish event I'll use Irish figures, but as a general rule I avoid picking on a country because it's a distraction. It's a distraction that it's somebody else's problem rather than our own. And I think it's really important on this and any number of other surveys we do and research we do around the Union to recall the problems are everywhere. And I just add though and I would agree there, but I have to say, I think these yellow signs popping up in Poland in particular on the edges of towns LGBT free zones. I think they're a particular problem. And I know that there's lots of other things that your research is showing that we're not paying attention to. But I think if that's allowed to continue to develop as it has for the last year and a half or so. I think it's only about then. I think we're in for some serious problems and I just I think generally right minded people which is almost everybody will. They find it disgusting. I mean it was really, it was a really good and one of the newspapers had a two or four page spread about it and it really hit home to me I've seen I think anyone reading that would just be perhaps be horrified. I think that is one thing that is just so visible. I think if we allow that to continue or not entirely within our control, if that's allowed to continue. I think we're for a lot of trouble and other people with similar mentalities will get ideas and that may start to spread. So that those yellow signs to me are the embodiment of just a horrible situation that just has to be put to an end very, very quickly. Peter, can I just jump in? I look here again I just want to agree with the minister. There's no disagreement between us whatsoever. It's repugnant. Ursula von der Leyen described LGBTI free zones as humanity free zones. And I think that was a good way of putting it. And I'm not here to defend actions from the Commission in Brussels. But I'd have to observe that they are taking action they are cutting off local authority grants and things of that nature so I'm within the limited toolbox available. It's not being ignored and it's a parent. There's no question about that. It's also, by the way, it's also idiotic. It's based on perverse ideology that's not about humans and it's not about humans thriving or about communities. Could I come back to the minister and say that Poland is no longer a new member of the European Union. Of course it goes back to an Irish presidency in 2004. But there is a problem in the Union, I think, and it's more general than in relation to LGBTQ of a certain amount of adherence to the principles of policies, including in the relation of fundamental rights, only to find that there is backsliding. And of course the threshold has been crossed and membership has been attained. So minister. I know that enlargement is not a particularly active topic at the moment nonetheless in the Western Balkans it's still on the agenda of the Union. Do you do is that is there are other tools as a leverage that can be used in the in the enlargement area with countries such as Serbia which has been mentioned North Macedonia and others Albania were in the queue to join. Yeah, and North Macedonia and Albania should be much further on along the line than they are. North Macedonia particularly been held up with other issues concerning its its language, which is obscure issue but it's important for Gary but I'd be very keen that we do continue the accession process and that that is one way to to at least make improvements. And as you said, it is certainly a concern that you get to the stage and you tick all the boxes, but how to ensure that that continues what I think. I think, yes, we can have legal rules yes we can conditionality yes we can have ruled off procedures. What we're doing at the moment what I think ultimately the only thing that will work is to really show them the light. I think for example in the case of Poland this will be the case for for new member states as well. They're highly dependent on the business environment on the European single market. They don't like this type of thing. You know they generally are the same as any the rest of us. They have staff members who are gay they have staff members who are trans they have you know they want to be in an environment that works with them as well. And I have something particularly in the case of Poland. I think that's one area of non legal recourse or one area of non official pressure that could be made to work and certainly invite the business community to get more active in that as well. It's another tool, but I think it's a tool that Poland as a, you know, progressively business focus country and you know imports and exports does business. I think it's something we're going to have to accept more news business to express their concerns about this and many of them are already expressing concerns for example that the Polish judicial system, another rule of law issue. But I think that's one way to go because clearly rules and regulations and expressions of fundamental values don't work for everybody I wish they did. So we need to use other methods like Michael I know the the FRA doesn't extend to the to the neighborhood but perhaps all the same you've been able to invite as you mentioned survey and some others to participate in some of the surveys. If, if a state is an applicant to the EU and it meets certain conditions, it can be admitted as an observer to the agency, which for our purpose means that we treat them co equally with everybody else. It's difficult because it's an increasing number of countries now in the Western Balkans. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, I think it's of an undoubted benefit to kind of throw a comparative light on the situation vis a vis the internal EU member states, and also to pick up good practice It's not about focusing exclusively on problems. It's broadening the pool of good practice from which to borrow for everybody else. I used to work in the Western Balkans back during the war and former Yugoslavia was stationed in Bosnia and also for some time in Croatia. And even then you know there are things that just work there that don't work somewhere else and that's that's also part of this this engagement. But if I could come more broadly to the issue of of the capacity to to ensure respect for the rules. The toolbox is of course relatively limited, but there've been important developments in the last few months in the EU. We have the rule of law tool put in place with the annual reporting by the Commission, and that's still only at the beginning. We haven't had the national debates that are intended to be triggered by these annual rule of law reports, and we have real progress. I think I'm a bit of an optimist I know, but I see real progress in the funding conditionality debate in terms of the next budget. There will be some form of scrutiny for fundamental rights compliance in the spending of EU monies, and I believe that that will make a real difference. And then the only other thing I'd say in terms of protecting of ensuring respect for rights across the EU, the whole right across every bit of it is the urgency now of investing in civil society and protecting the NGOs in protecting the other civil society voices. They're coming under pressure everywhere, and they do far more they play far bigger role than I think is currently acknowledged and so side by side with the legal developments. We need to invest in the soft support to the brave NGO Human Rights Defenders. Just following up on the soft support idea. I mean, if you look at the Commission's strategy document is very interesting read by the way, including on the, the point the minister has made in relation to the business environment and the very positive contribution of diversity and inclusion policies to to economic to economic welding. But of course the strategy does include a number of hard proposals. You mentioned I think going back to the the Equal Treatment Directive, and you mentioned extension of the definition of hate crimes. And there are others as well. Both of these, as far as I know, involve unanimity in the Council. So I mean, what realistically are the prospects for getting measures like this through or do you think indeed that there's a case for adjusting the role in which it's available to do so through the Passorel thing. But is that are these are these viable measures that the Commission was proposing to put forward. Minister of the ministry. I'm delighted to hold back. That's a difficult question. The Passorels laws is something that I don't usually talk about because obviously the issue of vetoes and states guide their vetoes generally we certainly are public those. So it would be possibly controversial here. Look, we've just got through an MFF document which, you know, actually has, you know, it's not perfect, but broadly welcomed as a step forward and that was done through unanimity. And, you know, certainly, if there were two member states there who weren't fighting their good fighters, as they say they don't agree with them anyway. Certainly, it would have been a different document that they not being involved with they don't have the views that they had, but if you were looking to, if you're looking to move away from if you know it is required I'm not clear it's required and everything but it's required to move away from it. And it just points to the MFF can be done on that basis. And that's a good point that I mean last weekend might be disappointing to some but as looked at the other way it's it's the approval of two massive spending programs from the EU one unprecedented in its nature and it's and with that conditionality as I say, but it's there. Michael. I don't have much to add. Let me just, I suppose, say as well that having high level discussion around these issues will bring up its own benefit, regardless of what the negotiation outcome will be, you know, getting this repeatedly put into council configurations for discussion appearing in council conclusions. That's all part of the incremental growth in willingness and acceptance of the expansion for example of hate crimes, or for the equal treatment legislation. So there's there's there's no there's no convincing reading not to pursue these. Can I just add as well just in relation to Michael or Peter mentioned the national debates on on the rule of law and human rights in the European Union I mean I'm encouraging our dog and our Shannon to do that. That is certainly something that's that's envisaged. I would say though at the every time we have a dog debate and a question and answer session which I do after the European Council. There aren't quite a lot of deputies raised rule of law human rights issues in the European Union. I think that that's that's an important form as well if you start when we start joining our voices and again increasing the profile here. I think gradually has has to have an impact so again I'll be trying to make sure you have a lot of stuff in the longer the new year I certainly want to see good debates on on on on the rule of law on human rights and the European Union in our own national. We're starting to have some questions from our participants. One close to my own heart spent a number of years in Strasbourg at the Council of Europe it's addressed to Michael of La Houtte. In addition to the work Michael of the FRA and the European Union the Council of Europe has contributed significantly to bolstering legal protection for LGBTI plus people over the past two decades while facing many of the same challenges to what extent is their cooperation between the FRA and the Council of Europe on LGBTI rights. It's a really close cooperation the we we can never allow ourselves to slip into some form of a competing relationship that will be deeply unhelpful. The fundamental rights agency mandate of course is designed to complement the Council of Europe one not to replace it. We don't have for example any adjudicatory function. We're not the guardians of treaties in the way that the Council of Europe is. We're in daily contact on every imaginable issue the whether it be myself and Dunia Miatovic the Council of Europe commissioner the as in closely in terms of how we engage on different issues and countries. Through a sharing of research findings and pooling indeed of research efforts. That's the case for example this week on artificial intelligence where we're both very much focused on it but quite deliberately coming from different directions so that we can be a support to each other. Also I would say the normative guidance given to us by the European Convention is absolutely central that by the way yet another of the priorities we're focusing on right now maybe just as challenging is you accession to the European Convention on human rights. The other the partnership is very good it's very healthy. A hell of a lot better than it was when we were first established. You might remember it yourself Peter at that time there was considerable concern that the EU look like it might be creating a competitor to the Council of Europe which of course was never the case, but that's long behind us at this stage. Absolutely Michael and as the minister has mentioned the Norris case was absolutely fundamental to the change in Ireland, and other cases brought before the Court of Human Rights were fundamental in other parts of the membership of the Council of Europe, which of course is 47 rather than 27 and thus has a much broader geographic coverage. Another question here on action outside the EU the minister has largely covered it but I'll just repeat it anyway what role should Ireland play as an EU member states at global level to further LGBTIQ equality. How does minister burn anticipate the political dynamics of this issue playing out among EU member states, is it largely subsumed under wider debates on rule of law, or is it emerging as a significant fault line in its own right. I think the last point to fair enough point actually and something I'd like to see change it is the rule of law issues obviously that we're dealing with at the Council generally on the judiciary on media, and those types of things and this is not something I have to say that has really been a major feature discussion, and, you know, in any form really that I've been at no six months of the job and I'm not at every form, but it's certainly something I'd like to have been really conscious of that and it's something I'd like to see how do we get further up the agenda because you know there's no doubt that the solidarity is there with LGBTI people in Poland and other countries as well, but how do we just collectively work out but just in terms of what the Irish government is doing I have to say I think our diplomatic staff are just doing tremendous work in Poland in terms of engaging with the community, in terms of supporting the community, in terms of going to gay pride events with the community and flying the flag literally in the countries of the Basin so I think really my hats off and I think they're doing the federal work and I certainly hope to join them at some point when the service ends so that I certainly think it's something that Ireland, I mean, Ireland has obviously led the way on this in some respect, in other respects we haven't, but in some respects we have. I think we have an opportunity to continue to lead the way and take that particular path. So that's a moral thing to do, it's a moral obligation on us I think, but also, you know, part of the reason why people get agitated about this is not to say it's a moral context very important as well, part of the reason is we're not contributors to the European Union, in terms of the budget and it simply should not be acceptable for us to allow our money to be spent, where these activities can take place so that's a financial side to what is fundamentally a moral question and don't get away from the morality of it. But there is a financial side to it as well, I think I think citizens are going to start questioning that too, I think they'll be right as well. I have a question here from Peter McLoone. Are you a member of the Institute, are you contributors aware of the recent initiative in 20 schools nationwide this in Ireland to create a school environment that is fully inclusive of LGBTI plus students. Is this type of project the best way forward ensuring investment in youth and belong to youth services across, belong to youth services across Europe is the best way forward. I imagine the education areas covered in the strategy I don't recall it immediately but Michael do you have anything to add on that. Sure, well first education is covered but in terms of encouraging diversity and mutual respect but of course it's modest because it again engages the issue of EU competency where education in large part stays with the state, but more generally the level of tolerance school communities is really obviously an important thing to do. And it's not an especially difficult thing to do because repeatedly we find that levels of tolerance grow the younger you go in terms of checking the levels and acceptance so yes, I don't know about the Irish initiative but it sounds very interesting and it corresponds with what we would recognize as an important part of building those diverse communities. I love that point from Michael that it's not an especially difficult thing to do think we're actually none of this is actually especially difficult to do. From a moral point of view does have to make the choice that is the asset want to take and I think in schools in Ireland, I wasn't aware of that specific project but, and in my opinion as former education spoke for the party I mean it's about school leadership as well, I mean and the question here which manages to bring together the other crisis COVID and LGBT is from Elaine Cassidy who's chair of the Department of Transport LGBT I staff network. The pandemic has affected all parts of society but LGBT plus people have been particularly impacted in that they can be isolated from their chosen families, and they've even been advised not to come out. This is acknowledged in the EU LGBT equality strategy 2025 but given that the strategy perhaps does not compel member states to act in some respects is their scope for further legal provisions that would have more, more teeth, so to speak. Well, the intersection there I think intersectionality. Yes, something that the strategy has particularly majored on Michael. I think we have as much teeth as we could possibly put there at the moment in terms of the ability of the EU to move legislatively there's a lot as I said before, there's large parts of lived experience that are just outside the scope of the institutions. I just want to agree with the person who put the question we've been mapping the impact of COVID for all manner of groups across society and the LGBT communities are among those who are heavily impacted. It's not just about fear of going out on the street it's also being being locked up with an intolerant family or in a setting where you can't be yourself. It's about not having the escape of school for something youngsters who found that the only place where they could be themselves. And it's also about hate speech online where LGBTI people are being blamed somehow for the virus I mean palpable nonsense, but they are one of those groups, other groups include Muslims and Jews, Roma, who are being targeted as somehow being the effectors of the virus. So there's all manner of issues there and we're not out of the woods yet you know this is not stuff from six months ago this is on a day to day every day basis as we navigate through the lockdowns. An area in which social media no doubt have a role to play I'm thinking that the Commission I think this week is launching further initiative in the regulation of social media minister. Yeah if you don't mind on that specific question which is very really important question what requires very specific answers. I might come back to the Institute that's okay in written form when you get distributed to Christmas or members if that's okay because I think it just deserves a precise answer because it's asking us what we're going to do. Minister I'm not going to speculate as what we're doing I'm going to tell you what we are going to do. So, I'd rather if that's okay. It's a really important question and I haven't, I haven't prepared for this particular debate on the base of what we're doing naturally. And again, it's such an important question so if you don't mind I'll do that I'll come back. Peter may I add forgive me if I jump in I forgot to mention again to use that awful word intersectionality. So, I think that intersectionality is is is very strongly present present in the LGBTI Q communities. One in three say they have difficulty making ends meet for intersex and trans one and two, say that they're poor. And of course, the pandemic is hitting the poor much harder than those who have resources it's about precarious jobs, part time jobs on plan for unemployment. This intersection of the two issues is an important dimension of assessing the experience. I have two final questions from researchers at the IEA in a way you've covered, you've covered them to some degree already but I'll just put them out anyway. From me a thousand researcher at the at the Institute for Michael in light of the European Commission's proposals today for the Digital Services Act in combating online discrimination and anti LGBTI plus hate speech. What might some of the key indicators of its effectiveness in this area be and what are its limitations. I have a question for largely for the minister from Alex Conway also a researcher. How does the minister square massive investment from German car manufacturers, like 100 million from Daimler in hungry, seemingly being undeterred by legislation past today banning adoption by same sex couples. So first the Digital Services Act, Michael, I don't know if it's a bit early to comment on it but it's only launched today. Exactly, it's a bit early for me to I mean I haven't had a chance to look at it carefully we don't we don't get sight of these draft pieces of legislation so I'm as new to it as anybody else. The what what what I could say is that key measures of success will be a great care by platforms in terms of what they publish. It'll be about voluntary take turn of expression that crosses criminal lines. It'll be about an ascending pyramid of regulation depending on the levels of risk involved. So in other words moving from the voluntary actions to be required legally required actions and there'll be a pathway there depending on levels of risk and exposure. There'll be there'll be a taming of artificial intelligence and its application through requirements of transparency and impact assessment. They just somehow but I can't really go further than that today I'm sorry. No but you're reflecting the reality that so much of our lives socially are indeed lived through those through those channels these days. Minister the final word is with you on those and on any other topics that you'd like to have the last word on. The question on damer actually kind of undercuts the point I was making about investment but I think I think look, presumably they were planning this for quite some time this just presume. I know that I saw conspiracy theories that it was connected to the MFF agreement. I certainly have no evidence that I haven't read enough to know that. And I suppose one could say that they were weren't were they aware that it was legislation going to be passed today, which is anti LGBT, which it really is an anti human rights. But again, and I said this to some kids this morning in a school talking about fast fashion I mean the consumers have to make their voice heard as well. So, so we have to do our job as government but European Commission does its job and the institutions but our human rights watchdogs as well. And consumers have to make their voice heard too. So, so when I say about business make its voice business then is pressured by consumers so you know you've a problem with damer doing that. Not many people on the call will be buying a damer possibly but your own choices in the consumer world but look it's a serious point. And I think I think it's something that we don't all going to start thinking of as consumers, how we deal with. At the end of our, our long period I just want to express my real appreciation to our two panelists and speakers for the richness and the that the informed nature of everything that they have contributed to this debate and also for the IEA I should say a debate dedicated to LGBTI. I do hope that it can be followed up with a live and in person event sometime during 2021. But with that word of thanks and seasons greetings to all who have who have participated and have listened in. Thank you for for now and leave say our thanks to our two speakers. Thank you all.


So how do you feel about what you can't block anymore? No, you still can you're not going to be able to block that's changing. Does it bother you? No, really? You can't trolls now have free access to you all the time. You think about Twitter maybe more than I do.  Hey, trolls, it's good news. You can follow us on Instagram, Twitter for more juicy content. Thanks for the response on Patreon for a little bit of content like button. Is there anything that could happen over there that would make you leave the platform?  Well, that's obvious. Yeah. Nothing else? No, not really. So today we are on to episode five of guns and good luck. That was one of his single last episode. It's not the last episode. No, the last episode. It was for. Doleker. Yeah, he was in it, too. No, he was he said that he was sell them the OVM. Right. It ended with the handshake. Yeah. Yeah. And so that that's where we are now. Right. And now we only got technically three episodes. I believe the last episode is actually they say seven and eight combined. OK. Just say it's a long seven. That's what she said. I'm a long seven. But yeah, we are very much enjoying the series. I hope you guys are as well. Obviously, if you're seeing this on YouTube, obviously, as you saw in the other parts, you can see a very cut up version on your seven and eight combined. Yeah. You see a very cut up version about five, ten minutes of a very cut up footage of each episode on YouTube. If you'd like to see the full one cut versions of each episode and other watch songs that we've done, you can head over to Patreon. Patreon or Patreon. I'll put the link in the description below and the pinned comment. This one is called The Uncut Versions There. Doodle. So the heart. The heart mill may rain high. Probably. That's it. The heart may rain high. Maybe. Who knows? The heart rain supreme. The heart does rain supreme, doesn't it? It does. Especially if you're a fan of the band, Heart. Name one song by Heart. It's not I want to know what love is. It just came in anyway. I want to know what love is. That's not it. No. I can hear them singing great great voices. This the women. Thank you in heart. Yeah, no one cares. Here we go. This guy's back. Oh, no, it's just a flashback. So we're going to figure out more about that guy. Yeah, I thought so. Well, not true. Yeah, just cut to the chase. Here's my number. So that's why that's why he wasn't concerned about him. Ah, when two hearts meet. Two of hearts. Two hearts that beat as one. I wonder if that's going to be in here. Careful, his foot up. It's the same. Yeah. What's there? What's their deal? I was just feeling something in that same regard myself. It can't just be he has a friend. Yeah. And the tension when the wife is around. Yeah. There's more than meets the eye for sure. For that relationship. Yeah. That's what he said. He's not wrong. What type of powder do you use? Great pickup line. Don't use talcum powder. It is. It's not good for you. Great going for a stroll music. Joel, did you see that? Bummer. Yeah, it looked old. Yeah. Nice film on top. Just to show they've been waiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I said it. It's gone. Yeah. Yeah. Nice transition and a nice shot. Cover cut. Don't turn her off, bro. What is going on with her? Truly. Horniness for killing. I don't have a way to describe it. I have to take revenge for my friend's death. What about your father? My father is more like my father than my father. He is never more like my father. My father is very different. He doesn't look like it. But he is very modern. He doesn't look like it. I just look like it. I got to study as much as I wanted to. Very delicious. Ice cream is a continuity nightmare. Yes. How is he? He is a softy. You want to taste mine? Thank you. I mean, it will be done. Really? The way you put your hand on it. That suit is way too big for you. I want to ask you something. You are like a gang to me. Why do you like me? Because you murder people. Who do you like?  You do hang out with me. There is something going on with that relationship too. I don't know. I still don't understand why she after he murdered people. I still do believe it's that. I mean there is maybe more going on. But I do think she just is turned on by that expression of power and control. Especially from somebody who doesn't seem to exhibit that ever. Don't tell anyone about us. Something's going on there man. Something's going on there. I don't know what. Yeah. The people you work for hurt my dad. Dad. Is that why she likes him to help her dad's business? Maybe. He's a good assassin. I'll tell him. Okay. She's got a new entry. Your science is for her entry. Sir, without her. When can we meet? We have to discuss the delivery plans. Read the book properly. Don't judge by the cover. There's something in the book. A little note. She gave you a special little note. Look here. You'll have to study the whole class. After that you'll have to study the whole school. And slowly you'll become a whole Englishman. This school is in English. Got it? This school is in Hindi.  You know this culture. She's ruining it. She'll meet the delivery madam. They're like corrupting our culture. You're right. The municipality is painting on walls these days. They must have done it. What's the problem? That's why she's starving so late. Because of the drawing. And that drawing wasn't even right. You don't even want to talk to me. I don't even want to talk to you. Explain it to her. What are you looking at? You don't want to talk to the private. Get out of here. Go home and do your homework. This is a school. This is a public place. You're blind in her love. I understood everything. You're in love. Love. I love that little smile inside. Wow. What a love story.  Love and friendship are the work of the work. And I'm not the work of the work.  Everyone else is in love with you. What will you do if you don't take it from them? You'll talk too much. You'll tear up. You won't know. Go. Go to the hospital. Go to work. Clean it properly. The music. What's this? This is empty. Where are the records? Sir, we need the signature of the big boss to do the records. Then why don't you take it? Go and get the signature. Sir, we went out three times. We always tell you to come later. We'll bring one. Have I ever told you how proud I am of you? Don't listen to him. He's a cheat. Huh? Come on, tell me. By the way, they're waiting for me outside. And I'm here...  I know we've either reacted to the song or seen this movie. Yeah, it's familiar. It's not still Saliza. I've never seen this before. I've never seen this before.    Yeah, he's a good guy. Last season of Game of Thrones, I can't see a thing. I know. It's so dark.    I can't see a thing. Ooh, a grenade. Don't try to grab it. No. That would be a poor decision. We have heard that bad decision. His hand is gone. His arm. Oh, okay. That's going to be gone. I thought I was going to blow up. He just came out of nowhere. He sure did. Oh, no. No, no, bad. Not the homemade pistol made. Oh, oh, one, two, three, four. Bang. Yeah, that was quick. Stabby McStabber sent over here. This town ain't big enough for the two of us. He's daredevil. He's flash. He's not dead. Bro, you're dead. Don't go over there. It seems like a very poor decision. Very bad decision. Here comes one, two, three, four. It sounded like Akshay. I can hear it. The music. Ooh, another throw down. Very soap opera-y. Old school like in Sholay. Such dramatic music back in the day. He missed it. That's right. What does that mean? I didn't miss. He didn't miss. He shot him right where he wanted to. Oh, like he meant to not hit him? No, he shot him in the balls, but there was nothing there. Is that when through his pants? I thought it was because obviously you're wearing pants if they're hanging down here. If they're hanging down and if you're wearing tight underwear, he might be a grower on a shower as well. That's true. I was just wondering what he meant by that. I think he meant I shot him right where I wanted to shoot him and it just went through. There was nothing there. So yeah, he's either, he's a eunuch. He could be that. He could be growing on a shower and it could be he's wearing something that's really got him or he meant to, which wouldn't make any sense because he killed his friend. So he has every reason, like he has him right there. He could just shoot him. So it's something that I don't think it's just like, I don't think he meant to not. No, he shot him in the balls. Yeah, I think he was like, I meant to shoot you in the balls. Yeah, he's like, I didn't miss. He says, how did you miss from that only your three inches away? He goes, I didn't. In other words, I shot him and there was nothing there. That alone makes me want to watch the next episode. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. He's go by so fast for. They really do. For 45 minutes. Even though obviously it, and I have heard people say, because obviously it's out now and I've heard people say that it's slower than they were anticipating it to be. I agree. I thought, yeah, I also thought it was going to be a little snap. It doesn't mean I'm bored. I'm very intrigued, but I was expecting a little more. A little bit more action. A little bit more clip. Like at the end, but in a lot more of the episode. Yeah. And it's turned out to be a lot more just drama and character driven, which I'm fine with. It's just, I feel like the way they presented the trailer, maybe it led people to believe. The trailer, you know, like do you use the analogy of it's the menu for what you're going to be eating at the restaurant and it gave the impression that it's a bit more action centric and this is not. This is drama centric. Well, obviously it depends on the last two episodes. But again, I agree with you. It says the time still flies by, which is a testament to the fact that, yeah, the pacing is slow, but there's nothing wrong with slow pacing in drama. Yeah. The Godfather is a really, really slow film. Yes. But it's magnificent. So, Yeah, there's another good episode and another. And I feel like now, it'd be interesting to see what Tipu does. He's because he's the most intriguing character. Well, actually, I love the villain too, though. I do too. And I really like that the majority of these characters are all holding their cards really close to the vest. I feel like there's something about all of our major characters that we still, like big stuff that we don't know about them yet. Tipu. Adar. Yeah. Dulkur. Yeah. The girl that likes Tipu. Yeah. What's going on with them? What's going on with that in that situation? What's going on with Adar and his buddy? Yeah. What just happened with our villain? Yeah.  Yeah. Right? That's like six or seven characters who've been with us now for five episodes that I still feel like I haven't learned the bulk about them. Yeah. Another thing I really appreciate is how uniquely this, because you can see it's inspired heavily in terms of the way it's shot and the characters and the score especially in terms of it's so inspired by old school western feel or old school Bollywood essentially. Yeah. I love the organ. It makes it quirky. It does. It makes it just unique and keeps you very engaged even if it is a slower paced series than most were probably expecting. Testament to the writing of the directing by Raj and DK, our Dosty of Dosts. I really love it's very soft. It's not as in your face as it would be but it's got the same premise behind it of when someone's deeply insulted there's that... Another good episode. Let us know what you thought about the episode. If you saw us on YouTube obviously you saw the very cut up version. So if you'd like to see the full on cut version of this episode and every other episode including the last two remaining ones. Head over to Patreon. Patreon or Patreon. And let's just get into the next episode. On to the next episode!