All right, let's call our meeting to order. Let's see, a motion to adopt the agenda. So moved. Is there a second? Second. Okay, any discussion? Nope, a vote on the agenda. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, full approval. All right, we can move to public comment. Anyone in the room here for public comment? Nope. Family here. Family. All right, Mr. Golding, anyone online for public comment? Yes, Chair. I'll be promoting over Sharon Busher. It is now your turn to. Great, thank you. Hi, who do you think? I feel like a broken record, but I did speak to this last month where you are dealing with the holiday parking. And the request to have two hours of free parking on Fridays and Saturdays. And I had spoken about the need to really pay attention to our downtown and felt this was not adequate. I realized that this is an impact on your budget. So on Monday, I spoke at the Board of Finance and just addressed it with the mayor just saying that I was hoping that he could help fund this so that there could be more free parking during the holiday season. I'm so concerned about businesses in general downtown, but certainly all of our commercial space and retail that is so important. I don't wanna lose any more stores. I know each story is a little different and I know it's got to do with safety and security and COVID and everything else. But I'm trying to figure out how we can make, how we can remove obstacles so that people will come down and shop. And so I'm just making that request, hoping that the department can work with the city to get the funding to expand what is proposed. So thank you so much. Anyone else on the line? Yeah, sorry to interrupt for the benefit of other members of the public who did just join, we're in public comment. And if anyone wishes to speak, please use the raise your hand feature if you're joining from Zoom. And so at this time, there is no one in queue, Chair. Okay, thank you. Let's close public forum then. Let's move to the consent agenda. What should do approve the consent agenda? Okay, is there a second? I'll second that. Okay, great. Any discussion? Is it really just the minutes? Yes. Yep. It's a light one. It's a light one. Okay, all in favor of approving the consent, the very light consent agenda. Say hi. Hi. Hi. Great, full approval, thank you. All right, next up, we have asset management. Yes, come on up. Warren, please, we're excited. This is a continued effort with the commission's interest in metrics to lift up in the hood a little bit and understand some of our internal workflows as we look to manage and make sure we're meeting public service requests in appropriate time through our service level agreements. And Warren is here. Warren works for, excuse me, for INT, Information and Technologies, but is located here at 645 Pine and excited to have you here, Warren. Yes, thank you.  All right, yeah, so as Chef had said, my name's Warren Rich, I'm the asset manager and GIS coordinator with the INT department but working closely with DPW on both asset management and GIS. So yeah, I'll start just with a little bit of background on the asset management system. Viewworks was adopted as the asset management software back in 2021, prior to me starting here, but it's been in the works for about two and a half years now being actually launched for just under two years. So the implementation and data compilation took about a year and it was actually launched and to use in the winter of 2022. I started in August of 22, so I kind of picked it up six or seven months after it actually got underway. This is just a quick kind of suggested roadmap from our software vendor of where you know, where you should be at certain time periods throughout your implementation of an asset management system. We're still very much down here in this year one to two work efficiency focus and I'm starting to trend towards our year two to three asset reliability. Ultimately it leads up into less focus on the software itself and more using the software as a tool within asset management as a whole among other existing processes and tools that can be used for asset management. So you can kind of see how these blocks get smaller, work management is what we're focused on now, understanding the work, what we're doing, how we're doing it, how much time, money, all those kind of things. And as you understand more of that, the maintenance management piece comes in a little bit better, preventative maintenance, less reactive maintenance, what you're doing until really all that should just be running a lot smoother and you can focus on more longer term kind of projections and understanding the assets as a whole better needs over time and budget forecasting, things like that, just having a better handle on everything altogether. So yeah, again like I said right now we are one to two, it's really focused on work efficiency and management. I'll be talking about work orders and service requests shortly showing some data points from that and I just wanted to make sure we kind of knew what that language meant. A service request is basically something either coming from internal within the city or from the public via CClickFix that here's an issue, we need some money to look into it. The work order itself can spawn from a service request if it's a legitimate issue that needs attention, a work order is generated off of the service request and that's where the actual work is tracked on what happened, who did it, how long did it take, how much time, how many people, kind of things like that. So service requests are often linked to work orders that's not always the case, some work orders are generated by themselves, some service requests don't necessarily require a work order as part of the request. Service requests again come in internally or through CClickFix, it really depends on the group. Certain groups are 99% CClickFix, certain groups have a lot more kind of internal requests coming in, it's based on the group and how they work. Yeah, and work orders can again generate from a service request or a scheduled interval, we have a lot of kind of preventative maintenance scheduled tasks that generate on set intervals to make sure things are being attended to in the right schedule to ensure the function of that asset is going smoothly. Yeah, and a really powerful piece of the work order is being able to tag a specific asset to the work, so not just understanding the work itself and how much time it took, but where in space or within a building or anything, what exactly was that piece or that asset that was worked on, how much work was done on it, you could start counting work orders, compiling data on what does it actually take to upkeep this particular asset. So yeah, currently, Parks and DPW are the primary users of it. We've had interest in other groups of the city, but we're really focusing on getting it running smoothly within these two groups first. Within DPW, it's water, streets, traffic, parking facilities, and tech services that are utilizing service requests and work orders. Yeah, and as of last week when I ran these numbers, DPW alone has closed 16,549 work orders, so it's pretty impressive. It just shows how much work goes on and getting it recorded. A lot of this stuff, you could probably take a guess and a stab at it, but now that we're actually recording this information, we can put some data points behind the work and a total of 3,889 service requests. There's a lot of information flowing in and out of this. We're tracking labor equipment and inventory costs as part of work orders that rolls up into total cost, what is it cost to take care of this particular asset or this particular type of work? Streets and traffic are utilizing that monetary number on the work orders for billing purposes as well. If they need to bill out, whether it be another group within the city or an external, like a knockdown for a signal or something needs to get billed out by tracking all of that work as it's occurring, you can get a more accurate estimate of a cost that needs to be billed from it. And another aspect that we're tracking through the service request and the work orders really is the service level agreement metrics on C-Click Fix requests mostly, because that's what we have actual specific numbers set to that we've agreed upon responding to these requests in a set amount of time. And so by tracking not only the service request when it was responded to or closed with the work order kind of piece of it too, we can get at a little more detail on what actually occurred to satisfy that request. Yeah, and then just a quick kind of overview of where we want to take it next. Again, we're still in this kind of phase one and we wanna get past that and not just have this be a work order system. It needs to become a holistic asset management system and it will and it takes time. But yeah, one of the things is just focusing on the assets themselves starting to look into some of this data we have on existing work orders and picking out trends and themes with assets that we can start using for planning, budgeting purposes. Same as yeah, higher level asset analysis, condition, performance, maintenance replacement needs. These are all really important things to understand to keep up with the assets and keep them running smoothly in the long term. And this is tracking all this data helps to get towards that. And then yeah, kind of getting the focus on the view work system, not just for the people who are inputting the data on a day to day basis, but trying to take some of that data out and get it in the hands of the key decision makers to start making decisions with and use some data driven decision making like we're getting. And yeah, just keeping up with work orders and service requests, we can't let that go because that's where a lot of the really important data comes from. So making sure that continues to work smoothly. And then yeah, it's taking view works as a piece of the whole asset management realm once it's really under control and we're getting solid data out of it. It becomes a tool and not necessarily the solution to asset management itself, but it's the starting point currently. Yeah, so I will go ahead and share some of these data that we have currently for it. I'll be focusing on streets, DPW maintenance. Oh, we're still seeing, I don't know, maybe. You're making a reshare. Reshare, yeah, I was stuck on my other one. There we go. So yeah, streets and traffic is what I'll be focusing on now not because the other groups aren't using it but I have a good handle on how they're using this and I feel like they've really kind of adopted it early and have better data up to this point. It's one of those things where the adoption takes time and just getting it to be used regularly and correctly. The data itself won't necessarily tell the whole picture when there's gaps in that. So we decided in streets and traffic would be a good use case for this. So we can look at any range of time. I figured we'll just run a kind of two and a half month period from September 1st to today and then we start seeing some of the data in this first half coming out of work orders. Customer service, this is entirely recycling cart sale but it does get into the bucket of streets, maintenance and traffic the way that's set up. So that's interesting alone. It's really just kind of a record of the recycling cart sale. So there's not as much to kind of glean from that but it is good that we're getting that recorded. Serial numbers and important aspects of the sale do get recorded with that. But once we dig kind of down into the streets themselves you can see over here this list populates and these are all the activities, types of work orders that have been conducted since September 1st. And it's really just kind of a quick look and overview and sense of what's going on and what kind of work is occurring the most or more than others. So sidewalk, new sidewalk that rises to the top just with council alone but also with labor hours. You could tell there's really a lot of effort going into that. Yeah, it goes all the way down traffic calming just one and these are a kind of wide array of activity descriptions. So some of them fit nicely into buckets, some of them don't, some get kind of passed around. And then down here work order type. This is whether it's a preventative maintenance, a reactive maintenance. These two key pieces are really key and I think we'll start to glean some really interesting information. If we're at 80% reactive, 20% preventative, we're not having time to upkeep with the assets and get them to the point where we're not being so reactive, you can actually have time to focus on the preventative side of things and get ahead of issues before they become issues. The same way or up here, yeah, so this is the closed ones we were looking at. There's completed, this just means supervisor manager needs to go in and review. We do have a QAQ process, QC process behind the work orders to make sure the data is solid before it gets closed out, sent into the system and we can take it as it is. So moving on, here are service requests. And again, this, I see here, 100% C-Click fix coming in through maintenance. I mean, we could flip it over and just take a look at parking or traffic really. Very similar, these two groups and a lot of DPW from what I've seen is more service requests being logged by C-Click fix and not so much internal, just the way it works. Parks is kind of a different story, managing buildings and things like that, but DPW- Waste water and water, more preventative maintenance, building management, infrastructure management, less kind of customer complaints about how our wastewater plants are operating. Yes. So yeah, it's the same kind of deal here. You can click on it and see what the biggest issues were. Service request-wise or C-Click fix request, traffic signal problem rises to the top. Graffiti at times has risen to the top. It's not as high with traffic currently. And we're looking at an average of six days before a service request is closed. So that means from the time the C-Click fix is logged by someone from the public until it is actually commented on and closed in C-Click fix. That doesn't necessarily mean that the work wasn't completed sooner, but that's when it actually got back to the original requester that it was done. And yeah, just for continuity's sake, we can flip over and look at the same thing with streets and they have an even lower days. And we do have SLAs set to these different categories. So the average alone is not the whole story. That's where we can go to next. So what we're looking at here is the pie chart is the first thing to populate and 78.8% are being completed and closed out and notified to the original requester within the SLA that we agreed upon. We do have this 20% that are not and that's where you get into a little more details on what's actually going on, what the requests are that are going past SLA, total days overdue, average days overdue. If you click on a specific one, you can see I originally had just average but it's good to see the maximum to see how that skew is coming with the average. And you can kind of dig down in. And a lot of this, it can be many reasons why these weren't met on time. Majority of the time it's not because it wasn't done on time. It either sat on somebody's desk after being completed and didn't get actually closed out to close the loop and finish the request. Sometimes these get routed. If it's kind of iffy, we're not sure who it should go to. It can get sent to another group or department before it makes its way but that original log data is still the same. So take it with a grain of salt what this is. There's more digging that needs to be done to actually get down to tell the true story of why we're not meeting these SLAs. But this is the data. This is what the person who originally submitted the C-click fix is going to see. They're going to say whether it got done within the seven days or whether it took 14. So both sides are important. And one more part with traffic. They are really good at relating work orders to the service request. Which means that we can pull out a little bit more data from it and actually find out when the work was completed and not just necessarily the service request itself closed out. Again, we have this QAQC process. We want the data to be solid before taking it and that's an important step. It also puts the effort on the supervisor foreman needs to get in and actually go through and close all these and do that work. So interesting with traffic specifically, we're at 28% not met to when it was closed. But for these ones that are linked to work order, we're at 9.7% of the work being completed. So the work order itself says this was done at this date. It just didn't get reviewed and the loop entirely closed on until after the fact. And that I think is a really powerful use of the work order to service request relation as well. We can have a solid paper trail behind what actually happened. How did this issue get addressed and fixed? And you can see the different steps, whether it was open and progress completed to closed, kind of the whole lineage and get more detail just solely based on open to close. Yeah, and same thing over here where we're looking at some of these. But yeah, the devil's in the details a little bit with some of these and it takes more digging. But this platform alone has been useful internally just for a quick kind of snapshot of how are we doing? Where are we overall? What groups are doing really well using the system? Who maybe needs some more training? We need to revise how the work order form. Are we capturing the data? We want all these kind of metrics and one last just graph since September of last year. This is all the count of service request past SLA. And there's some ups and downs, there's some spikes, but I really like here at the end, you can see in the past few months our efforts to improve the system and the workflows and training and just getting everybody on board and to recognize the importance of inputting this data because it's part of their everyday work. They have to be out there not just doing the work but recording it. And we're seeing a downtrend and it's getting better over time as we focus in more on it. So I think that's all I have for now. Great, thank you very much. Let's see. Let's start with Commissioner Hogan, I know. I enjoy the data, thank you. Question, Dr. Spentry mentioned service level agreements. Is there a place that you might want to see those? Where would I go to find those? Right. We are happy to share those with you. Those are not on the website to my knowledge anywhere but more than happy to share those with the commission for your review and see if you think that the service requests are in line with your expectations. So yes, those are not public but those are things. I think this tool, for me at this point, we haven't moved into the full blown asset management of having this dictate what is rising to the top for capital replacement, which assets are failing more than others, but it is helping me make sure that we have in our metrics that we want at least 70% of our work orders to be met on time. As we get the crews trained, it appears that we are doing that in most of our groups, which is where I want to see continued progress. So happy to share the SLAs with you. For your review. Thanks, I just suggest they be linked from here to somewhere in your website. Squinting in there and I can see the different categories on the seven days, on the three years. Right, great. Great to communicate that. What's the update process to get your data from ViewWorks into here? That seems really, it's probably current. Yeah, so we get, the ViewWorks database itself is hosted by ViewWorks but we get a nightly copy of it. So that's current as of yesterday at, I think it's even better. And yeah, I have a script that goes in and hits that database. So we take their copy of the database, load it into our kind of database server and I have a script that kicks that out into a GIS dataset because that's a, it's a GIS platform where I'm doing a lot of that, the charts on. ViewWorks originally did not have a very robust visual data visualization platform. They've gotten better. They've just implemented Power BI into it. So we can have that more natively within ViewWorks but when I was creating these it wasn't available and I found this platform well suited for the interactive kind of data visualization I'm sure we were going forward with. Yeah, that makes sense. So as the ViewWorks folks, eventually you have any time you can log in and see some things in their platform. Yes. But the ViewWorks people aren't touching our like your RGIS server directly. No, no, that's all in there. You grab data from them. Yeah, I take the data out of the database. I have some SQL kind of scripting and then I push it into feature class and it is spatial data as well. A lot of the data has, you know, that long geolocation to it. So, you know, by converting into a GIS dataset, once we have more data we start looking at hotspots of service requests or work orders and kind of, you know, looking at density analysis and take it a little bit further. That's good. Now would you say you're tracking labor hours for someone's, does that include contract work? I'm picturing like sidewalks was a big one there. This is trust here. Just in-house. In-house sidewalk work. We're starting to input more contract work into it just to keep everything in a singular location and be able to tag assets to it because it's just as important on, you know, sidewalks, how many sidewalks we've replaced versus how many contractors. We still need to know that the sidewalk was replaced. Yeah. And so keeping it all in the system. So that's one thing I'm working with. Tech Services a little bit more soon to try and get more of this contract work into the system. Just to have it all in one location rather than, you know, PDFs here, files here, few works data here. I'm trying to consolidate it all. Great, thank you. Work in progress. Maybe useful to have like a default date range up there. I pulled it up in one browser, like thought it was busted, I didn't see anything. Tried it in a browser. Same view. Right. And then I'm like, oh, I got some dates in before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See something other than blank screen. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe set it for like a month to the prior or something like that. Right. Yeah. Thanks for the update. Let's really look forward to see where you all take it. Yeah. Make sure to move on. I too also really, really like data. And I guess what I'm interested in is maybe the other visualization side. Actually looking at the assets themselves. What data do we have about particular assets and how we can make that more available to the public. Yeah. So let's maybe stick with sidewalks, for example. I think I don't know how regularly the city, right, DPW themselves actually assays the quality of the sidewalks. But would it be possible to make that kind of data available to the public either through the view or the stat, BTV, sort of public facing side? They might be up there on the open data portal, revamping recently, trying to get more GIS data into it. So sidewalks, for instance, and viewworks are a GIS data set. Whereas everything in this building is what's considered a vertical asset. You can't put it on a map. Try and put all these lights on a 2D image. It's just not going to work. But yeah, we have all of that loaded into the system. The GIS data, anything that can be made public, it's part of my goal to get it up onto the open data site so it is available and ready to use with some of the more internal kind of vertical assets, if you will. We could share them, but we kind of tabular in nature. It's really just a database kind of functionality of how we track and record them. But yeah, the open data side of things is another kind of part I'm working on a lot and want to get as much as we can out there. But at least on the city's end, you could do it where you're just searching for a particular asset, like for you guys. It is like one giant list. But then what kind of information might the city have regarding that particular sidewalk, say, in between two streets? Really, how much data do we have about each asset? Where is that kind of really that focus on? And that is an area of work of progress for us. We do a sidewalk assessment, a city-wide sidewalk assessment, about every five years. We've just recently completed one. My knowledge is it's not integrated into ViewWorks yet. I'll double check. You may know better than I do. We pull data out of ViewWorks to update that sidewalk inventory. So when those sidewalk work orders are done, if the sidewalk asset itself is tagged, we can pull out a list for the past two months that then we can take in and use in this other application that has been historically used. It's a little bit of an interesting situation with the asset management platform versus all these other platforms that we've used kind of along. And ViewWorks isn't necessarily the placement for all of these, but it's kind of making them all work and talk together. So we're not having disparate data in different locations. We'll look to see if we can make that public over the winter. All right. Very exciting. I'm super excited to see where this all goes and the integration, especially, I think, is going to be a really good direction. Thank you. Commissioner Fox. Hi. I didn't have too much on this. I feel like the two questions that I generated, you answered in sort of other responses, but I'll, I guess, comment on them anyway. It was just about getting at the pre-eventative versus the reactive maintenance. I talked about being able to map hotspots where to see which assets are costing us the most to maintain long term. I feel like that piece is important, but it sounds like we're not at that point with the system yet, so I was just curious about that. But you sort of answered that already. And then the other part of the question was then how would that then be prioritized into sort of how we decide which assets to then work on, which it sounds like we're not there yet. So those were the two questions that I had and sort of asked and answered, but. Grand goal, though, and kind of what we have our eyes set on for success of the system is being able to answer those kind of questions. And it will never, there are very few assets for which the data alone will indicate the order. A lot will also have to do with other related capital projects that are happening. Or with sidewalks, we look at level of use. As you all know, it's not just how bad is it, but how highly is it used. And so this is one important data set that underlies the decision making, but it's not the totality. And that's part of, I think, our reluctance is saying, here's the sidewalk condition across the city. Well, mine's the worst in the city. How come you haven't done it for 10 years? So there's a little bit of a balancing act there. Yeah, that makes sense. That was the only comment or question that I had. Great, thank you. Commissioner Barr. Thank you. Mine are more comments than questions. I just have to say how exciting it is to see the data and all these metrics start to come to the surface, because any kind of decisions that we may need to be done with good data. So the improvement of these things over the years is just fascinating to me. And I would look forward to maybe getting some links to be able to dig into it, if it is available for us to look into. So because as you kind of mentioned, why isn't my sidewalk being fixed? I hear that all the time in Ward 1. And I try to explain, well, there's other places that don't even have sidewalks. And so that's why things are happening, but it'd be helpful to have the data to back it up as I talk to people. That's it, thanks. Thank you. Vice Chair Damien. Thank you. I guess I'll start off first with a hypothetical. So if somebody submitted a C-click fix today and it was something that from their staff decided there needed to be some more internal conversation, and maybe it had to be brought to the Public Works Commission, is that something that would be reflected as a 30-day timeframe, length of time for that particular C-click fix in ViewWorks? As is now, yes. Because C-click fix, we really only get this open or close, especially when it comes into ViewWorks. It's open or it's closed. There's not a lot of middle ground. As we're commenting and kind of come into place, commenting on the C-click fix or through ViewWorks to say, we're looking into this, this needs more time. Right now, though, it's a little bit harder to pluck those out of the entire data set itself. So that's probably why you're seeing some of those 30-day past-out SLA's in there. It's hard to say without looking closer into it. But yeah, we're really just displaying it as is right now. From submitted requests to when it was actually closed. And I guess what I'm getting at is I'd be really curious to see in either the GIS platform that you had or somewhere those items that did end up, at least at the commission's responsibility to talk about. So that's something we could look at and see what are things that maybe we can be proactive as a commission to get some sort of ordnance change or something to help maybe prevent that in the future that came up. And then my other question was sort of, this clearly takes a lot of staff time, both on your end, on the rest of the department's time. I guess more generally, how has the department been supported to take that extra step from doing whatever the day-to-day job is, but also taking that time to input this in here and manage that on a division level. Right, we're really working program by program and I want to acknowledge that Megan Moyer, our division director for water resources here was a early and strong champion for this effort. So each division has its own kind of open windows for time to work on this. Some divisions are very contractor heavy like street maintenance. So they're jamming in the summer and then winter have a little more time to kind of do trainings and learn. But it is, we have all stretches right now. We have some folks who are heavy users and some who yet haven't really gotten into it. So still work in progress. It's great to have Warren in water distribution. Rocky, who's just been promoted was the asset manager over there. So we've got a great team. It's gonna take time and we need the time and space. And unfortunately, one of the challenges of having a very ambitious administration with projects that we're not finding as much time to do the organizational building when we're doing the external building. So that's an inherent tension that we have with as much production as we're doing. Excellent, thank you. That's it. That's it. Okay, I'm gonna actually tag on to that. Because I think this human infrastructure piece is really important. So be on kind of comfort with the system. What is like the training and onboarding for new staff in the system while you're kind of running around repairing sidewalks and so forth? And are there processes in place to onboard new folks with the expectation that they'll be engaged in the in-view works? Yeah, yeah, I created a few training documents just kind of the ins and outs of work orders and service requests because most new people coming on are gonna be at that level of inputting the data themselves. So there's a couple videos. They're all loaded up into NeoGov. The training platform. Yeah, and I believe Parks has started automatically assigning those to any people as part of onboarding, which is something we should probably look into as well here. And a lot of it is I'm working close with individual groups. The system isn't one size fits all across all the different departments, groups, whoever. It's really kind of tailored to a specific group. So yeah, I kind of work close with them and usually the foreman, supervisor, whoever it may be, I make sure they have a solid understanding or they will convey it to anybody they need to actually work with the system or just let them know, call me in when you need me. I'm readily available for training. It doesn't take more than 30 or 45 minutes to kind of give somebody the overview. But is there kind of the repetitive nature where you need to work through it several times, right? You can't just have that one and done kind of thing. And then three months later, just like holy cow. So I think baking that in as much as possible may be able to help someone with a comfort level. Yeah, and just making a part of the day-to-day process of their work and then it becomes, again, we do it five times in a day and you're gonna know a lot more than the first time you did it. Co-workers can help out too. Yep, exactly. Is this tool at all, can it be predictive of labor needs during sort of like our seasonal, it says you were tracking, sorry, labor equipment and inventory as part of these work orders. So moving into say, our kind of construction season then, having a sense that X number of feet of sidewalk or X type of project in the past has utilized this much labor, this much cost. Is this, does it have the ability to be predictive in that level or? Yeah, yeah, I mean, just what we saw with looking at new sidewalks, that kind of worked total labor hours for the past two months, it kind of represents that. And if you could take that with expectation of how many employees you have, how many hours you expect and we kind of things like that, you can start to fuss out a lot more than information. So yeah, it's all aggregable data, could summarize it, take it in, use it with other kind of data sets. To better understand the work, yeah, and the time that it takes and staffing needs, things along those lines, preventative versus reactive, if they're not getting the preventative too much reactive, maybe we need some more help, kind of things like that. So that's one of the key things, particularly the work order aspect of the system is trying to get at. And then I guess also tied to that is, are you tracking any of the work orders that are based on either extreme weather impacts or excessive use, and I imagine some of the infrastructure around construction areas where the road isn't being, isn't under construction, but areas are and there's excessive, heavy duty vehicles? Is there any way, is that part of the tracking to identify the, not the reaction, reactive, but that, oh, this roadway, Pine Street might need some additional paving because we've had lots of trucks on it or whatever, something like that. Yeah, less of the latter currently of actually getting the external contractor work kind of input into the system itself. For the storm kind of event or the extreme kind of event on particular weather, that's something we've started to work on, on creating its own kind of category, storm event for streets, if they need to go out and clear a bunch of catchphrases because of a heavy, heavy deluge. We're trying to capture that more. I don't think we have it down perfectly just yet. I'm trying to figure out where that fits best to be able to say, show me all the work that occurred as part of this crazy storm we had last month or whatever. So that is something that we're working towards and we want to get into track that better to be able to pull out that information rather than just looking by day and time when it occurred, like say, hey, just show me all of the crazy weather event work. So. I think you asked a really good question. The second to last question there about do we have enough labor? And fundamentally this tool when we get better with this tool is intended in large part for me to be able to say this is with this level of funding, here's the service level we can deliver to the community. There's a lot of concern on staff and the staff level which is justified that we are building infrastructure that we do not have the resources to maintain. And that is not a responsible place to be where you spend a lot of money on an asset. If you don't give it the fair maintenance, then it's gonna deteriorate faster than it should. And there are examples, Main Street, Great Streets, St. Paul Street, Great Streets. We're adding to the fit and finish. It requires a higher level of maintenance. Stormwater systems need to be maintained. You know, the trees need to be maintained. Do we have that resource? The level of cleaning, pervious pavers, they need to be maintained. So it is clear to us that we are under-resourced to do the proper level of O&M. This tool should help us demonstrate how short we are and what we realistically need from a funding level to put into alignment the maintenance level and our staffing level to meet that need. Thank you. I think that's really important. Again, that human infrastructure piece is vital to maintaining the physical infrastructure. That's all. Thank you very much. That was really informative. Thank you all. Thank you. And we'll close number five. Are there any public comment or anything? Oh, that's, oh, public comment, right, sorry. Any, any public in here to comment? Yeah, I said I had my rocks. Yeah. Yeah. The whole presentation could have been a lot shorter had we just spoiled it down to that, Megan. Mr. Golding, any public comment on the, on the line? Chair, there is no one with their hands up at this time. And so there's no one in queue. Okay. Great. Then we will now close item number five. There's no action required. Okay. No. All right. Onto lead and copper rule revisions. Team water will be coming on up. I have to talk to you about our attend school. They will be successful. Our effort to fully comply with some EPA regulations that were passed recently, but that is going to involve engagement of every single person who has a service line in the city. So that's every single property. We'll need to be paying attention to what we're proposing and why we're doing this and be ready to help us so that we don't have to visit every single home. With that, I will pass it on to, I think it's working slowly, but surely. And just I'm Martin Lee and here to support Eleanor. Emily couldn't make it today. So Emily is our GIS specialist who's also been putting a lot of effort into this. And we have a temp from UVM who's also on board helping out with this effort. So I'll let Eleanor do the rest of the talking though, but I'm here to help answer questions. So we're going to talk to you about this water service line inventory project. First, going to start with a little bit of background about the lead and copper rule for those of you who may not be breathing in every day. And then we'll talk a little bit about sort of our situation with the inventory and what needs to happen in our strategy to get it done. So the lead and copper rule has to do with lead exposure in drinking water. So generally, we've known for a long time now that lead exposure in drinking water was bad, but there's sort of peak in national awareness of those health facts around the early 1980s. And then the Save Drinking Water Act, which is the federal law that regulates sort of clean drinking water was amended in 1986 to ban the use of lead pipes in water systems. But that specific law did not retroactively require utilities to go back and remove lead from their infrastructure. And sort of as this national discourse continued in 1991, the EPA established the lead and copper rule to protect public health and reduce exposure to lead and copper in drinking water. So this rule does two primary things. It establishes maximum contaminant levels for both lead and copper in drinking water. And then it requires water systems to implement treatment techniques if more than 10% of their samples are non-compliant. So what has Burlington been doing in terms of lead exposure prevention in drinking water? We've always sort of been ahead of the curve. So in 1982, when sort of a lot of this national discourse was happening, according to some of our memos and records, we started conducting sampling, following sort of EPA procedures to assess lead, copper, iron, zinc, and cadmium levels in our water. And so what that study found is that six sites had elevated lead levels, one immediately sampled at the tap. So I should mention in terms of sampling, you do three samples. You do one sort of immediately once the tap turns on, then you do one 30 seconds afterwards and then one five minutes effort. So six sites had elevated lead levels when they immediately turned on the tap, but overall on average, they were not elevated. And that study also showed the Lake Champlain water, just where we get our water from is naturally soft, which means it's low into self-minerals. It has general and neutral pH, which means that it's actually highly corrosive to indoor plumbing. So once it sort of reaches indoor plumbing, if it stands there a long time, then it can sort of start to leach some of those metals. So following that study, we started adding sodium hydroxide to prevent corrosion in 1984. And then we upgraded to using zinc orthophosphate in 1990 as sort of prevention, corrosion prevention. And currently we sample lead and copper levels every three years in about 30 high priority locations. And so since we've started doing this treatment and since the rule has been in place, we've always been in compliance with all EPA and maximum levels of lead and copper. But the reason we are here today is that in 2021, the EPA issued a revision to the lead and copper rule. And this widely believed to be sort of after the Flint, Michigan water crisis when drinking water quality was also again in the news. And so the goal of this rule revision is to better protect children and communities from lead exposure by removing all of the lead from the nation's drinking water systems. So as part of that revision, essentially to being compliance, all local and state water utilities must develop and submit inventories of their service lines, identifying all lead service lines that need to be replaced, as well as galvanized lines needing replacement. And we need to do this by October 16th, 2024. So where we are generally, so in terms of old annual reports we have some from 1929 to 1937, that sort of lists the kind of pipes that are in our system. And the reports from 1929 to 1937 mentioned kinds of pipes as galvanized steel, cast iron and lead. But then reports from 1939 onwards, no longer mention lead as a potential pipe material. So we're not entirely sure if it means that all lead was removed from the system, but we can confidently say that at least from 1939 onwards, no lead has been installed in our system. And although we have no records or evidence of active lead service lines encountered in the field, we are still required to submit an inventory. So I was just gonna, I'm on pause on that. So like in my experience and experience with Steve Roy, 35 years there, nobody remembers like hitting a street and oh my gosh, there were all these lead service lines. So we can't say that there aren't any because there was this one blip in the annual reports which said that there were some installed. But anecdotally, I would believe that if there were many of these we would have encountered one either in a repair or replacement to date. So part of this process, we'll run that to ground. And then obviously if we do encounter those then something will be done for them. But even so with the corrosion control that we add, right? That has been coating the inside of that pipe. It's also been coating the inside of your older homes which internally, separate from what the city can own and control, people could have lead pipes within their internal plumbing. And that is why, another reason for adding corrosion control is to protect people from their own plumbing. So just, it is a scary topic. So I just wanna be clear with what we know and what we don't know.  Or are you? I mean, I also, because I had not ever heard of lead lines and when Emily did the research and said, well actually Andy's annual reports mentioned it, I was like, huh? You know? And then we just continued to talk through it. It would be on a very limited probably number of streets and we're trying to figure that out, so. Deep breath. But in terms of the sort of the inventory status and the strategy. So we have over 11,000 service accounts that's both potable and non-potable lines. Of those we have about 4,316 records of lines that we have records for. We just need to review and confirm them. And that leaves us with 6,693 unknown lines that need to be identified. So we are ongoing doing a really thorough records review. We have hired someone to help us do that. So it's sort of the first part of the strategy. And then we are gonna be relying a lot on the public, which is sort of why we're here today to have helped them identify their own lines and answer a survey for us. And then we're also planning on doing in-person inspections or follow-up visits and also kind of a thing of neighborhoods. In terms of the timeline for this project, so here now in November it's our initial outreach where we're informing the public of this requirement and sort of introducing data collection process. So finalizing the survey form that we're gonna be using. And then from December to June we're gonna be contacting priority properties. So those are gonna be properties with lines that are listed as unknown for us in these older neighborhoods that might be more likely to have a lead line installed. Meanwhile, we're hoping people answer the survey between December and June. So we're gonna be compiling those responses, building that inventory and sort of highlighting, missing or non-compliant information. Then from June until September we're gonna focus our outreach on people that we have missing information from or that we need follow-up from. The plan is to submit the inventory on time next October and then we will be sharing with the public sort of the completed inventory in the shape of a map. And then obviously, again, we don't plan on finding any lead lines but if we do then the second phase is to remove them. So if we find lead lines then we'll introduce the next phase of the project. I know it's to the property there would be funding for that. And then I guess we're gonna add when we're talking about serving customers and there's some materials that were in the packet. Like there's educational materials we're potentially sending a magnet so that people can use that as the test. We know people don't know what all different lines look like so we know it's like the best information possible in the state. So to build off of that we're gonna be using the on-tap newsletter which goes out in about one to two weeks so that's gonna be sort of the first time that the public hears about this project and we're gonna have all the information on the website including the FAQs that was included in the packet. We're also planning on mailing postcard to every address in the city which again was included sort of a mock postcard was in the packet along with a magnet because that's a way that you can sort of help identify the material of the service line. Free magnet. Then in addition to survey form the last thing that was included in the packet was sort of a survey how to so how to identify how to find your water service line and then identify the material. And then as this is ongoing we have talked and partnered with other city programs including Burlington lead program because as people here lead they're gonna Google and they're gonna find Burlington lead programs and making sure that they are aware of what we're doing aligning our messaging and sort of learning from what they know about talking to the public about lead and then the sort of Fire Marshal and Code of View are gonna other programs that do inspections and go into people's homes and so when they do that they are willing to go and see the service lines. And then we're also gonna be partnering with a large community organization and landlords such as UVM to help reach more residents and make sure that people fill out the survey and then the water resources division customer care team is sort of already available for questions from the public. And one other piece because this might be a question you ask is like how can we do this, this is a lot of work as we mentioned we've already hired a temp. The state did make planning loan money available and there was significant loan forgiveness I think it's 100% for the first 100,000 and then 50% for every 100,000 after that. And we were in a little bit of a holding pattern for a while because at first they were gonna make us hire a contractor and then do this work and we were trying to make the case like it's our records, we're gonna be the best ones to contact people, we wanna do it internally and we've finally cleared that hurdle that yes in fact we can do it internally as long as the price per service line of what it costs us to do that is less than $55 per connection. So we'll be applying for that loan shortly to make sure that especially if we have to likely add another temporary person probably next summer to be getting into people's homes and making sure that we can meet that deadline that we're pulling down as much funding in the state as possible so that freight mayors are held as harmless as possible from this. That's it, I'm happy also to if you guys haven't seen them to show some of the communication materials that postcard in the packet, that would be helpful. This point we wanna hear from you. Yes, thank you, this was great. Sure we have some questions here. Let's see, Commissioner Mutano even starts. Yeah, I guess just a quick question. So eighties and nineties it was the lead in copper rule or is there any action required on copper pipes or any other metals? No, so there is a galvanized requiring replacement and maybe I'll point it over to Martin to give that definition. Yeah, so if there's a galvanized line which we have a lot of in the city that is determined to be at any point in time having been downstream of a known lead pipe. So it's like you have the water main in the street and then say you had, we find out that there was 20 feet of lead pipe and then a galvanized pipe to someone's house. That galvanized pipe would be considered galvanized needing replacement because the thought is that some of the lead might be stuck in the galvanized pipe because those pipes kind of tuberculate and they collect minerals is what they're saying and that's why they require that to be removed. Plus we wanna get rid of galvanized pipes. We do that whenever we can on our projects. There is one caveat, just to begin transparency. So that lead section, so many galvanized pipes do have a short leaded section called the gooseneck that's the bendable part that allows it to connect to the main. That BPA is determined that that short section is not sufficient to cause the problems that they're trying to deal with with like a long section of galvanized after a legit like long section of lead. The other thing is we, as I said, there's many fixtures that have small amounts of lead. Older water meters have small amounts of lead. These are all reasons why as much as we don't like adding more chemicals to the water, we do add more chemicals and in particular zinc orthophosphate it has phosphorus in it. So that is a challenging one for me to be adding because then we're having to remove phosphorus on the wastewater side. But it is a very important thing to from a public health perspective to be protecting people from anything that might be in our plumbing system or your internal plumbing system. Absolutely, that's it. Thank you, awesome work. Thank you. Commissioner Fox, thanks for the presentation. I guess I have a clarifying question about the actual process of inventory one's water service line material. So is the magnet just to identify it? If it's a lead pipe? Yeah, so it's sort of a multi-step process. So the first step would be to look at the color of the line. So if it's plastic, it's either gonna be blue, black or white. So sort of straight off the bat, you see that it's one of those colors. You're good to go. Copper, copper color is also pretty distinctive. But then if it's galvanized or if it's lead, both of those are gonna be sort of silver grayish. And that's where the magnet comes into play because the magnet will not stick to a lead line. I guess I was just trying to discern like what, obviously the end goal is to identify the service line itself. So I guess I was just trying to like clarify that. So thank you. And then I guess a couple of questions on the outreach. So I think that the materials look really good. I'm wondering if they're gonna, are there plans for that and the FAQs to be translated into other languages as well? Absolutely, yeah. We also have a translation service so if we were to call our office, we have a number we can call and it matches somebody so that our customer care agents could have translations and be able to talk to somebody on the phone. Very cool. Okay. And that is also part of the requirement of the rule is to make sure that you translate the material and you make an effort to reach everyone so that everyone knows about the project. Great. The last part of it is like you said this is sort of daunting trying to get thousands of homeowners to voluntarily participate in a survey. So, are there any specific tactics you're taking to try to incentivize members of the public to help with this project? I think you are very good at conveying why it's important and why you're doing it and stuff but that's not gonna be enough to get some people to take 10 minutes of their time to do something like this, you know? So, I guess like, yeah, what are their thoughts around incentivizing the public to participate? Are there? Not even the free magnets? Well, and that's why I think as we move further down we're gonna sort of maybe add in the urgency or do more canvassing but also I think we are allowed to have unknowns in the inventory. At the end, we won't be non-compliant if we have unknowns. It's just then, which Emily was here, but then the requirement becomes you have to let the people know who have an unknown line, know that their line is unknown and you have to sort of periodically try and find out what it is but you are allowed to have unknowns in your inventory. Okay, okay. And there will be, there's likely gonna be some of our inventory, like if you were to look at it the household side, we're gonna be able to figure out what the piece of material is from the curb to the house. We're not, unless we start hodling, we can presume that if it's copper from the curb stop to the house that it's probably copper but it may not be and so there's going to probably be a whole host of unknowns within the street and how we deal with those, you know, I've been in conversations with the state and frankly also had a leverage money to potentially get galvanized lines replacement because we could dig up an unknown and if it's galvanized like they said basically there's a way to kind of get some of those funded with this money potentially. So it's not gonna be a perfect process. I suspect this is the first step of a long time but it's a first step in getting a better inventory of what people have out there and particularly the galvanized lines that's gonna be really helpful when we go to paving streets because we've already been asking people to self identify so that we can proactively replace those because those are the most likely to leak, the most likely to percolate the clogging that happens and then sometimes people experience low water pressure because even though they have a one inch service they only have this much effective diameter because there's so much stuff in the pipe. So it's all in the good direction. That's all I had, thanks. Commissioner Barr. Thank you. I want to also comment that I noticed that your timeline was a bunch of pipes with fitting so how cool was that? I didn't want that just to be missed now that it's recorded, it's part of it. And this is very daunting and I live in an over 200 year old house and I'm sure my partner's gonna wonder why I've got my headlamp on it. Down there. Tonight? Yeah. Do refrigerator magnets work? No. So that's why we're gonna be mailing a magnet because that's sort of the thin ones. I don't have a thick enough magnet. I just think the poor postal office is gonna be all stuck together. We might not be able to do that. You could drive down like in an ice cream truck and give them away. And you can do a scratch test but talking with the Burlington lead program folks who decided on the magnet because just didn't want to get into scratching of potential lead. A very similar thing, we did have a lot of asbestos in my house so the entire furnace, I call it the octopus was all asbestos so we had to have that removed 30 something years ago so I hope I don't find any lead or galvanize. And you know, if anybody did find lead then we would replace it at no cost. Okay. So we're hoping that people won't be afraid to like find lead because of that. Well I'd rather find it and fix it than not find it. So no questions, just a lot of comments and gone. We should give an award for like the first person who just self. I almost did it before. I almost did it before coming here. But I have a sick kid so I didn't. All right, commissioner Hogan. I just think it's time that you can give awards for like the even numbers like 10,000 or 30,000. Or maybe like the first commissioner who goes home to do it. That's me tonight, I'll record it. I am gonna record it. Question on like the timing of the postcards and thank you for including the draft in the packet there that one of them says on the postcard it says help us by April 1, I believe. When is that intended to go out? I guess my question was if I, is that like a now thing or like December thing? Soon. I would say December of January at the latest. I guess one thing is that there's a, if I get a postcard that tells me to do something but in the next like five months. I wouldn't because I'm dialed on this one. I'm gonna do it. You're gonna try to be me. We're gonna come back to every commission meeting. So I'm curious about the sort of the tiered thing here. Is there an intent to send later rounds of mailers to the subset that you know you haven't heard from yet? With more urgency around the dates? Yeah, we sort of decided to not really be that urgent right now, keep sort of keep that in our back pocket as time goes on to try and force the issue a little bit. I mean it'd be interesting your ideas like I think we have occasionally done you know, gift cards to, for like to local, you know like if you do this by this date and you get it in some sort of, it's a little hard because like the more desperate we get at the end, like you don't want to create that environment so he's like, I don't know, wait until the price is better. Wow, kind of right in the price zone. But I mean how do you feel about, you know, it would be potentially public dollars going towards some set of incentives like that so that- For public health? Yeah. For public dollars? Yeah. Just making sure, perception- You have my support. And I think that there's needs to be marketing towards peace to go along with the communications piece of this. Yeah. That seems reasonable. On the flyer, the page left that identifying your water service line material, part that struck me is, I think makes sense, but struck me is a little confusing and maybe others might find it confusing as well is I understand the distinction of the like outside the house picture, there's a distinction between city responsibility and owner responsibility. That's all still like well outside the house. And then, you know, you're asking for a picture that's inside. And I trouble getting my head around that, that relationship, right? If it's a picture inside that seems to be like well within the domain of the property owner's responsibility, how do you know, I mean, how does that help you know what's on the city service line? You're taking a picture of it inside my business. It should be by the meter. So I think, I don't know if that's specifically mentioned but people, I mean, I would expect we're gonna see the meter in these photos. And then we know that one side is the city and one side is the private side. I think that, so that picture comes from, we can clarify that designation of responsibility is really around when we do a line replacement rather than lead that the section from the curb stop to the house is 100% the cost of the homeowner. Whereas the piece between the curb stop and the water main is a 50-50 cost share for our ordinance. So, but for this, we may either wanna, I don't know, have to think about whether we made that or just because it will make things a little confusing for this particular situation. If the water service line is led, is that the city's responsibility? Even though it's like- The whole thing, yes. Downstream of the picture, it's inside the curb stop. Interestingly, we are regulated all the way to the tap. That's why we take samples at the tap and not like disconnect the water service and take the sample there, which would frankly be a little easier because we can't control what people have in their plumbing. But anything up to the meter, basically nobody should ever be touching that without our approval and authority. That particular schematic is really just about in other situations, the financial responsibility. But for this, we can think about how to- Yeah, I think we try to sort of stuff as much information in the graphic as possible before this purpose might be clear. I'm seeing a different message between the outside view and the inside view. It seemed extraneous. Panic inducing, perhaps. I can't recall it wrong, but okay. Is there any sense encouraging people to, will the magnet help them tell if their own, really their responsibility, like their fixtures and things are led? Is there any sense of- Not their fixtures, but I suppose if they actually have legit like pipe- Well, they have the outreach from inside the meter. Something like stainless steel, that's not magnetic or anything. So if someone took the magnet and went up to their faucet, it would be kind of useless information. So I guess saying that this is just for that specific, is that what you're getting at? Well, I understand that the EPA requirement is for you to check service lines. Seems like there's a potential in it. I don't know the likelihood of this, but if there's lead pipe inside the house, the passenger service lines that outside the purview of this EPA requirement, is there a like- You can do some research. You can do some research, yeah. They should give people like, oh, by the way, or like if you're interested in checking your- They might have lead solder, I don't know, but I don't know if it's stick to that. And don't think the magnet test is gonna be appropriate unless somebody legit has a lead pipe, like on the other side of their meter. Like so say they test the service line and it's lead, and then they start testing the pipes downstream of the meter on this, maybe on the pipe part, you'd be able to do the determination, but I do think that we can and should add some FAQs about what people can do to evaluate. And we do, and then some of the FAQs, the state of Vermont has sort of testing that you can do. So we link to that as well as to some of Burlington lead programs resources to try and get a consultation from them if lead is a worry. And also I think if people are concerned about lead, then we have some sort of preventative measures such as flushing the water, if it hasn't been used in the system. And not drinking warm water from your tap, like that. And I think there's a whole chunk of us generationally that if we weren't around and didn't have kids, like the 1980s and 90s when some of this information was shared, that you shouldn't be filling your baby bottles formula with warm tap water because if you possibly had lead in your house, that could be because that can cause leaching of the pipes. So again, because of the testing we do, I don't think that there is a large concern, but I do know in this date we can make this available. The state had done a whole series of testing on schools and childcare facilities and there was some data there from fixtures. And once they replaced the fixtures, then the test came back clean. So again, it can be an issue, particularly for things that are not used for a long time. Like the back faucet or the back water bubbler at a school, if it never gets used and then somebody goes to use it and doesn't flush it, that's an elevated risk if there is lead present in fixtures. And I just, there's not as much information out there I think nowadays about that. And also because we're a community that hasn't benefited from the fact that we didn't put these things everywhere from a lead line perspective. Yeah, yeah, I think it would be appropriate to put in the FAQ or something about it. By the way, if you're interested in the stuff that your fixtures, your stuff inside, we don't need to know it for this requirement, but here's an helpful tip, sir. Is the mailing going to property owners and occupants for rentals? It's going to occupants because we are required to let them know that they could be exposed to lead. Again, very unlikely here, but it's sort of as part of this rule is we do need to let them know, so. Does it also go to the property owner in those cases? Well, it's gonna go to every address in Burlington, so I'm hoping that the property owners would know. We may have to do a, that's a good point, but occupants kind of double up because we have the list of all the accounts and there are some ones where the property owner is not the occupants, but to the extent that we also want to let the occupant know and have them be advocating for their property manager to get into the basement, right, and to do this, we may need to kind of go double listed on that. Yeah. I think about it. There's a good chunk of properties are rented. Yeah, yeah. Some chunk of those that English is not the first language spoken there in this postcard. We'll get a chunk, but if the property owner knows, maybe it's like, oh, the next time I have any to be in for the main, that's like next month or something like that. Yeah, that's a good point. It needs to happen from the property regardless and it might not necessarily be the tenants' responsibility. Hopefully the tenants' responsibility. Okay, I like the pipe up messaging on there. Thanks for that as well. It's good to go. It's a while. It's all these hidden things. Nothing further here. Thank you. Great, thanks. I sure do, Manny. I think most of my questions were answered. I think going back to the postcard, something, I think in color, to sort of really emphasize to your point that like if somebody might just throw it out that like there's a lot of blue that makes sense, water, but something red or something that's like red. It needs to alert, alarm something. Hey, read this, don't throw it out. So something to that effect I think would be helpful for the general public. It's that like how do you make people feel urgent but not? Not that urgent, yeah. Yeah, we're trying to walk that line. No, that totally makes sense. I get that. It's scaring people but not, really. Hopefully once they see something that alerts them they'll be like, okay, it's probably okay. It's like the director's films that you used to have to watch. What's the other question? On the, yeah, I think really emphasizing for that property management piece of really getting, making sure that the emphasis is not on the renters to try and, oh, the owners isn't on the renters to try and get their property manager in whatever way we can to get property owners to do that for their tenants, I think should be made. And then finally for the magnet, are the magnets already in stock? I'm just curious if the department has already ordered those. I have a second follow-up question. We have not already ordered those, but. I'd be curious if there's an opportunity to sort of just market DPW, so when I'm done with the magnet I could put it up on my fridge and just as a reminder to be like, hey, I can call DPW for XYZ thing, just some other opportunity because I definitely will probably put it on my fridge afterwards. We are considering that, considering putting a phone number or anything in our water drop. Right now we're considering having a round magnet that we know the diameter of because part of the inventory, more like optional questions are like, what's the diameter of the pipe and whatnot. So we were thinking that if we get the picture with the magnet and we know the diameter of the magnet then we can like have a good guess about the diameter of the pipe, but then putting like DPW logo or something. Yeah, just that, that's it for me. That's it, all right, that's great. Yeah, I'm just gonna underscore, underscore, underscore about the renters and non-native English speakers, also folks who have limited literacy either in English or their own language. So what kind of outreach to our community partners, what kind of funding those community partners need to do that kind of engagement on that level whether it's AALB, CPOEO, what have you, the school districts close the liaisons, feeling like those are really vulnerable populations and that postcard may not even, may not even get to the families. So who then is ultimately going to have their feet held to the fire? We need to inform the residents but is informing saying, okay, well, we sent that in there. We have no idea what language they spoke, but we sent that in there, that we put that box. So that kind of engagement with our community partners and then holding the boards responsible for ultimately ensuring that. And I think that that balance who has a kid at the Burlington High School, CVs and now lead, I had tested at my other house in Burlington. The balance between this is important without being kind of overly panicking because you will get folks on both ends who are ticked off saying like, who's going to pay for this? That's the first thing that someone commented on. Like, I already paid up in taxes, someone messed up and I'm going to pay more without having the clear information of what's going to be covered. And I think that finding your service line and the city and owner responsibility, property owner responsibility when my first read was, oh my God, we just had our street dug up with the relining, the water pipes. And then now I'm going to have to pay for this but we have four reading on. So making sure those messages are kind of clear moving on and maybe kind of removing those different responsibility pieces for you. Yeah, we can make it clear that if there's a lead line, it will be a place at no cost. Yeah, yeah, that was it right up front before I started. Yep, that makes sense. And from the school standpoint, we haven't really talked about it but there's a portion of this rule of revision that does apply to schools that requires sort of regular testing of schools but the state of Vermont sort of already has a program that exceeds those requirements. So that's why we didn't really talk about it because we won't need to do anything there. We still have to get the inventory of what their line is while we're going to do that. But as far as outreach to community members, the schools has to culturally use on this. I can tell you that those if you're not aware of those. But to your point, yes, allocating some funding so that if ALLV or whatever wants to have somebody working on this and getting the message out and how we can get those. So I just feel like, oh well, there's only 6,693 lines that are unknown. And you talked about that you don't need a full compliance rate, what percentage after you do all the outreach, is there a target percentage under which where you've been done all the outreach but you don't have the data points? I'd have to get back to you on that. I do know that when we talked about sort of worst case scenario, if like nobody answers the survey and we were generally fine in terms of compliance even if they're all unknown. So we can double check to see if there's not being in violation of the regulatory requirement. We can, as long as we made every effort, it wouldn't be in violation, but then we would just be in this continuous cycle of trying to run those to ground. So it's definitely to everybody's advantage if we're like mounting up to try to get this done and potentially hiring other people like it is to the repairs benefit that people comply within this window and that we don't turn this into a and ultimately it's for people's protection, right? We give you this information and unfortunately maybe you are the one person who has a lead line and you don't check this. Like that is something people need to realize they do have personal responsibility for. I'm even thinking of like PSAs, I'm just gonna go video myself at home and use the basement with my magnet. But the visual, a visual piece as well. I mean your QR code and your postcard is great, but is there again thinking about? We are thinking of filming a video of how you would do it because it can be confusing. I'm looking to purchase a house right now, so I've been down a lot of basements recently and with this project I'm like, where is the service line? And it is hard to find and oftentimes so. If you just had your water line work done next to the city of Burlington, you know where it is. Yes, but we will, are planning on doing a video that shows where it is and what it looks like and actually someone doing the test and putting that on the website. Great. Check out your meter at the same time. It's a whole great night. Come in. Bring your whole family down. It's a great night, huh? Let's check out the property. That's all. Thank you very much for any public in here. Mr. Golding, anyone on the line? There is no one in queue at this time. Mr. Golding, anyone on the line for a public comment? Can you all hear me? Yep. Okay, yeah. I said there's no one in queue at this time, so no one's got their hand raised. Okay, thank you very much. All right, great. Thank you very much. We will close item number six. Welcome to the staff. Thank you. Yeah, so I'd like to thank you. I'm gonna retire off that. Just take the mic and cue the sound. Well, we really appreciate your patience with three meaty topics. This one, we should go through fairly quickly. Staff has been monitoring our financial performance of our various special revenue funds, which are funded by meters and by stays in the garages and lots. These sources fund a whole host of activities that we operate from school crossing guards to striping our streets, to putting signs up. And so we need to manage and monitor how our funds are going. The three items I suggested there with the Striping School Crossing Guards is the traffic fund, which is paid for by meters. On the other side with the garages, as Jackie will say, is funding our garage operations and our lot operations and the maintenance and upkeep of those facilities. We are not trending as strongly as we'd like, as Jackie will say, so it's important for us to, of course, correct mid-year. And this is a start of a conversation. This is not queued up for action, but we wanted to give you an insight of things we are looking at before we start talking to the downtown stakeholders. We'll be doing robust outreach, as Jackie will say in a second. So we're certainly not, we don't have anything baked at this point, but wanna get your initial insight before we start the outreach. And I would just wanna say Jackie Asperity has just been promoted into the position of division director for parking and traffic, replacing Jeff Gadget. We're really excited to have her in this position and take it away, Jackie. Okay, thank you. All right, so this is just gonna be a kind of overlook of the funds and some ideas that we have. So just as an overview, the 265 parking facilities fund includes the two municipal garages, marketplace and downtown, and then the six lots that are listed there. Our budget for fiscal year 24 was $3.4 million, and just the staff overview with Matt can run in the show down there. So as a background, prior to COVID, this fund had about a $2.5 million balance. And as of right now, we're about $3.25 million in debt, which is two debt instruments that we're carrying due to some capital improvement projects that we've completed over the last five years or so. The initial proposals that we're going to present to you are our way of kind of looking to pay off the debt and reverse the negative that we're looking at for the years. Just two things to note that the rates in the garages, most of the rates have not changed since July of 2014. And we are controlling our expenses as much as possible. One of the big expenditures we have is security. We went from 90 to about $280,000 for fiscal year 24. These slides you've seen before in one of just presentations, these are just some of the changes that were made, improved lighting, brighter paint colors, changed the marketplace from this lovely blue to a brighter color. So this is just some of the funds that we've spent. This shows revenues so far and our projected year end and kind of where we are going to end up if we keep the same trajectory. Some of the biggest issue here is the permits which include five day permits, Monday through Friday, six day, which is every day of the week. A lot of students use those and the high school permits which are discounted right now at $40. I also wanted to note the third party gateway here that's an income that we weren't expecting. That comes from Park Mobile when you pay the 30 cents. Park Mobile gets 25 cents of that and we get five. So that's just an extra income that we weren't expecting on here. These revenues are as of July 31st, so a third of the way through the fiscal year. And the third party gateways, we had budgeted for it in another fund. Yes, yes. But this was an allocation issue between the traffic fund and the park. Yes, thank you. So here are the four options that we thought of. So right now in the marketplace garage, we have a maximum daily rate of $10. We would like to move that up to 14. And then the downtown garage, the maximum daily rate is $8 and we'd like to move that up to 12. This would also impact the hotel rates. Right now the hotel's pay us $4 per night, which is really two days of parking. And they charge their guests between like $14 and $16 for that one night that we get $4 for. So if we did increase the maximum rate, that would go to $6 instead of $4. In our agreements with the hotels, the payment is based on half of the max daily rate. So if we increase the max daily rate of parking, we get half of that per host health stay. Adding Sunday enforcement. So based on the numbers that we see Monday through Saturday, the projections that I put in here are what we expect to see on Sunday. And we already have the staffing, so we wouldn't need to change any part of the enforcement side of that. Increasing the monthly permit rates. These numbers that we have right now, the five day permit is $80 and then six day permit is $96, which does also equate to $4 per day that they use the permits allotted for. We'd like to increase those to $100 and $120 respectively. The last one on here is the employee parking program. So as of last month, we had 900 of these free employee parking permits. It takes hours, 40 to 50 hours of the staff in the parking services office every single month to go through every list, extend out, add, remove. We've also noticed that there's a lot of people that they kinda slide in here, owners of businesses that try to get this permit, accountants who really don't qualify for what this program was intended to. There's not a lot of way to hold people accountable to that. If we do a reduced fee, we would put it in their hands and they would have to pay by the first or second of each month. And it would be then their responsibility to extend out or add, remove, et cetera. So it really gives the businesses the operational worries and takes away a lot of the time plus it would net a lot of money, which would be nice. So going forward, we plan to talk to a lot of stakeholders in the community. We feel like there'll be a lot of feedback so we're ready for that. But we do need to move fairly quickly and we plan to come back to next month's meeting to get some approval, which I'm gonna start on the commissioner box, let's start. You knew I would have a lot of questions. That's what I'm trying to do. We love talking about parking. No, I mean, in all seriousness, I think that this makes sense, like parking operation costs have just gone up a lot. And so I think it's totally reasonable. I do wanna ask, I know this is probably like a separate question from this conversation, but is there any consideration about like the street, like raising the rates on the meters as well? Because we looked at all the parking data from the Main Streets Great Streets project and we know that our street parking is very well utilized, right? Whereas the garages are not quite as well utilized. And so we really wanna match supply and demand, right? Like that's everything, like raising the rates of those. We would love to do that sooner rather than later as well. I think we're looking right now into, the name is gonna, the UVM Transportation People. Research Center. Research Center there. So they're gonna be, we're engaging with them to do some numbers and occupancy counts on the street. We don't have that data, so yes, coming soon. Okay. Looking at the specific proposals. So a question on the adding Sunday enforcement. Just curious where do you think that additional revenue will come from, right? Is it revenue from parking ticket fines or is it better compliance? We think so. The numbers that I pulled that from are people that pay using Park Mobile or the kiosks in the garage. So we think that it's going to come from compliance not from parking tickets. Parking tickets go into the general fund so that has nothing to do with this fund. Helpful, thank you. I'm gonna stop sharing just so people can see each other since we're done with the presentation. Okay, onto the monthly permit rates. Again, I think it's totally reasonable. I guess out of curiosity, it seems like our monthly rates are probably less expensive than some of what the private garage owners charge, right? So where is this in comparison to what private garage owners are charging in the city? Yeah, so I didn't have data for monthly permit holders. That wasn't available on the website, but I do have, I mean, like the Cornerstone Garage is max rates 20 a day, Corporate Plaza Garage is 16. So they are much higher. I mean, no one compares the least expensive is $3 an hour, Courthouse Plaza. So they're much higher than we are. Okay. Yeah, and then the last one on the reduced fee for the employee parking program, again, I think it makes sense. It's still totally nominal. I understand wanting to support, especially like our service industry workers, but that that kind of program is really difficult to admin. So I guess the question I had about it, is there a way to make it so they're not monthly permits, that it's less administrative work to re-up them every single month? Ideally what we'd like to do is give the managers of the business or whoever's doing that, it would become their responsibility. So we would set them up so that they can issue, take away, remove whatever based on their business. We would obviously support them and we'd need to go to the businesses and teach them how to do this, but it should be pretty easy once we get it all set up. Which would take away a lot of administration from our office here. Yeah, because it sounds like that is a headache, or not a headache, but it just sounds like a lot of work to have to do. Right, you said 900 people and are you re-upping 900 permits a month? Every single month. Yeah, that's a lot of work. It is, and it's a critical service, I think that I was pleased to have the commission support to, these are for restaurant and retail workers, low-wage workers downtown. Obviously downtown is fragile with battling through issues of drug addiction and public safety. So we're gonna connect and have honest conversations and it may be that this is not the time to pull that trigger. The challenge will be how do we keep the parking facilities fund solvent if we're trying to continue this program for our downtown business community. So we've got some conversations to have, but we'll work through them. Yeah, that's all the questions I had. Thanks, I think I support you and I'm sure you're gonna get a lot of feedback from downtown stakeholders and we'll bring it back. Yeah, it'll be what it'll be. Thank you. Commissioner Barr, any comments on parking? Thank you, I thought I got rid of parking when I retired, but it never is. Parking's so emotional and I guess I wanted to point out several things that I'm sure everybody already knows, but just for the public. Parking is a TDM measure, by raising rates, you can encourage people to use less costly ways to get around like maybe taking the bus or finding other ways to get around. So I support the increase of the pricing and dynamic pricing I think is extremely important so that Commissioner Fox mentioned about raising the rates for on street because there's a lot of excess supply in the garages and you can push them that way by reducing the cost or leveling off the cost in the garages. But I think it's really important and the Sunday free parking that's come up before and I know that one of the things that I remember a friend of mine saying is that, will people risk eternal damnation and not go to church because of the parking in protest? I don't think so. I just think that there's gonna be some pushback on that but it's a struggle when you're trying to balance all the challenges that downtown is experiencing right now with trying to attract people and then have the added, oh, there's an increase in parking so it needs to be done as eloquently as possible and with as much wayfinding as possible to make it as easy as possible. I can tell you Park Mobiles is, and I know that it's costly and a lot of people may not wanna use it but there's so many tools within it that you can use and before I retired, we were using it up on campus. Quite a bit and it helped us with a lot, especially monthly permits. Trying to get away from monthly permits is something that I really encourage you to do. So that's it for me, that's those questions. Thank you. I share my time. Yeah, I also really like parking. Yeah, I kinda just want to second what everyone else said. Yeah, in terms of like demand management, presumably a good chunk of the people who are parking it in the garage have other options to actually get downtown and the buses being one of them, there's just less bus service on Sundays. It's almost, it's a much more difficult way to get there so I'm definitely least in favor of implementing that, well, parking fees that one day of the week, unless of course really we have these alternatives more fleshed out. Yeah, would you say a lot of business owners that are potentially people who are not eligible to be getting those free parking permits are actually taking advantage of those is that a common occurrence you think? It's hard to say because we don't, we don't have the data on the plates that we've run so I don't know, I can't say. Yeah. I won't throw anybody, but I can't say that they park in the downtown garage and they have a free parking permit but we have found going through the list, we ask what the position is and I think we've recently started going through and noticing that there's a lot of people on there that really don't qualify. So, but we don't know, right? We don't know if they're using that, we don't know if they're car sharing, we don't have the data on that. I figured. Yeah, and there's been a little transition in the shop. When Jeff was here, we were scrubbing and denying that a couple requests that came to me with pleadings and we held the line pretty firm. So, I'm sure it's time again to do some additional scrubbing but we make it clear that the ordinance language as you approved is restaurant, retail or other low-wage workers and so technical workers or owners, managers are not eligible for this benefit. Fantastic. And then one other clarifying questions with regards to the hotel rates, you said for any, right? So, the current is four, roughly $4 a night for the downtown garage and any increase beyond that would be half, any half of the increase that the hotel charges will go to the city or what is like the contract languages between the hotels and the city parking garages. It's half of the daily max of the- Daily max, all right. So, currently the daily max of the downtown garage, $8 per day, so the hotel pays $4. So, if we increased to 12, they would have to pay six. Right, but effectively you're getting more than a, well, I guess not, right? So, from check-in time to check-out time is- They are getting two days. They're getting two full days then. Whenever they check-in, they get until the midnight, the following day. Got it, all right. Thanks so much for clarifying that. Cool, no further questions. Could you say when the timing of when these changes may be implemented? We would love to do it as soon as January 1st.  So, with the 21 day posting period, we'd have to talk with the city attorney about whether there's, I have certain authorities if I notify the commission and so maybe we look at trying to utilize some of those authorities to start Jan 1. My hope is that that would be a clean break at the start of the new year. It's after the holidays. So, okay, thanks. At least for the initial changes. There may be some changes here, like Sundays that we want to wait till the on-street policy changes so that we have one united message. You know, extending the match's daily rates which affect the hotels doesn't really affect the general public. They're still paying a dollar an hour in the marketplace garage until they hit the max and the max just gets increased. So, I think there are certain changes here that are easier to pallet and implement. We'll see. Yeah, that's my sense of sort of what, among these different levers, there's different populations. Some of those populations are already stressed in other ways. Yeah. Yeah, important. I'd be interested to see what you come back with. Thank you. Thank you. If it's your day, Manny. Yeah, I'd also second what everybody else said about matching supply and demand. I'm definitely a big proponent of pushing folks to the downtown garage if folks do need to use a vehicle to get downtown. I'd be curious to see, oh, I guess a follow-up question is the rates, the hourly rates themselves for the garages. When was that last updated? Jill, I have 24. That was the same time, with the max, okay? Yeah. Yeah, I guess I'd look to, again, I don't know how much, it's a relatively small number in sort of the chart that you have by changing that max, so I'm really curious that changing the actual hourly rate on there. I also wonder too, as it relates to the employee parking program, so basically the business owners would get access to this back-end platform. Is that? They wouldn't need back-end access. We would give them a sign-in and then we would issue the permits to them and they can use them as they see fit, but they would need to pay for them. So they would expire on the second or third day of the month if they weren't paid for. Okay. And they have the ability to go in and change license plates or expire permits. We may be able to have them issue or we may have to issue them, but that's much easier than extending them. So we'd have to kind of work that out, but yes, it gives them the power to, if they lose someone and then they hire someone else, we don't need to know. Right now they do. It's two emails, please remove this car, please add this car. They can do it themselves. Okay. And I guess I'm also, this would end up definitely being, I think, a gray area, but there's a lot of talk around the employees that aren't eligible for this very specific program that was approved by the commission. Sort of the carrot and stick, the business owners now are doing more and a lot of the media articles that talk about businesses moving out are talking about or referencing, whether it's true or not referencing sort of the lack of downtown or lack of people who are already working downtown not after work doing something downtown because of that cost of interested to see more later down the road of sort of what that would look like. Maybe it's not $20 a month. Maybe it is more expensive, but still cheaper for other employees of these same businesses, both equity for the employees at the same company that definitely creates some sort of attention, but again, trying to give some something to the business owners that I think they're seeking, but still helping, but also helping the revenue for parking services. Yeah. Just something to think about. That's it. I am supportive of increasing the max rate. It's more out par with what we charge to the airport anyway, which is like 12 or 14. Yeah, can't remember. Yeah, supportive of that. And I think like looking at the big picture for me that the funding that we're putting towards security in the car parks is really an investment in our downtown businesses. It's an investment in our workers. I hope that you can frame some of this to VBA and the stakeholders downtown. But I feel like if we're gonna use that framing, then let's make sure that we have like really spiffy garages and that there is a presence, that we do have ambassadors, that there is someone who's sweeping, like not physically sweeping, but going through my six o'clock in the evening was startled by someone in the stairwell at the downtown. Gosh. I'm thinking, wow, if this was one of my kids, what, how would that, how would this turn out differently? So if we are going to be touting our increase of investment in security, then really we're doing the best that we can. I think another question I have is what are the, what are our peer cities charging for a daily rate and hourly rate? Because if we compare this to the South Burlington U-Mall, oh, it's free, oh, right, where do you get? So looking at vibrant downtowns and what that charges for a car park, I think this is also useful. With the employee permit, is that, can that permit be, is it per vehicle so that if I'm working Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Chris is working Tuesday, Thursday, can my boss just get that one permit and we share it? Yes, you can have more than one vehicle on it too. Both vehicles just can't be parked in the garage at the same time. So yes. I think just making sure that there's some mechanism that parking public works can have to make sure that really the people who need these are able to access them, that is if all of a sudden your employer is now in charge of doling it out, it can lead, as you mentioned, to some unequitable distribution, perhaps, to think about. And I guess my final comment is the Sunday enforcement, I'm not super keen on that. I think in part because it is hard to get downtown by bus on a Sunday. Just trying to think of what are the buses that don't run so that you have more people who if that's the day they go to church or are looking to do their shopping and are using gas for their vehicle, just kind of thinking of the spectrum. It's one day that's a little bit of a gift, but I don't know. I'm totally conflicted on Sunday. Yeah. Any comments from the public? Just to introduce Mark who's here. Mark is helping out in parking services and is our coordinator in parking services. So thrilled to have you here to just get awareness. Mark and his team is the front face for our office here and dealing with the public on all sorts of issues like we've been discussing tonight. So thanks, Mark. Thank you. Mr. Golding, anyone online for a public comment? Chair, no, we don't have anyone with their hands raised or in a queue at this time. Great. All right. Well, thank you very much. We'll go ahead and close item number number seven, commissioner items. All right. It's fine. No, it's all good. What? Director. Oh, I have. Yeah. Oh, it is listed here. It is. Who switched that? Yeah. Do you want to go for it? Because I was looking at it, it was a queek. Director Spetsch always goes before us. So you want to go before us. So now we expect you to answer everything in your report. Do we have to go revise the? Yeah. I am fine either way. Why don't we keep it how we normally have it, which is your first? Great. Sounds good. In my written director's report, I just highlight the fact that we have fixed the sewer siphon underneath the Wundewski River. It is back in operation. We are going to keep the temporary bypass pipe in place in case we have a problem with the river siphon. And we will then plan to decommission the bypass if all goes according to plan next spring or summer. We are fully prepared for the winter season. We will start paving another shim coat on Pine Street as part of the Champlain Parkway so that the structures are not proud so that we can adequately maintain the street for the winter season. But Pine Street and Lakeside will still be in need of some additional work. Not all the curbing will be in place this winter. Our plow team will be able to work with that. And SDK, the contractor will be back to finish the project in the spring. We are doing a survey of North Wundewski Avenue users to follow up on the design changes that we implemented with the repaving project this summer. That survey is still open so any members of the public who haven't taken it yet are welcome to go to our website and take the survey. We will bring the results to you all next month. And Main Street, Great Streets, the update here is that we will be going to the Council and Special Board of Finances coming Monday to award the contract. We are working to negotiate with the apparent low pitter as the bids did come in higher than expected as we discussed last month. We will be looking at a phased implementation of the Main Street project as a result. And I have to answer any questions. Commissioner Adams. Yeah, I got a quick comment. And it's actually rather specific but regarding the speed bumps on South Prospect, but the Waterman kind of stretch at UVM. I understand that those were installed recently and one comment that I have received from someone was that they are a little steep and that the campus buses especially are going four to five miles per hour as they're traveling down that stretch and was wondering if there was any kind of what the design intention was for implementing that and it might a different shape of the bump. The more ideal given the speed of traffic and I'm always walking through there. So I definitely appreciate vehicles moving a little bit slower but maybe it's a little too slow. That's it. Thanks for the update on the Champlain Parkway. I guess one clarification there for the multi-use path that's adjacent to it and some of the sidewalk connections. Do you anticipate closing gaps or like smoothing out those connections? For the shared use path that's along Lakeside and Pine Street, yes, there will be maintained winter access along that corridor. The shared use path south of Lakeside will not yet be open as that road is not open to traffic and the curb ramps and all the kind of accessible features, including the signals that those intersections will not be in until spring. It is an attempting attractive surface for non motorized traffic in the meantime with the exception of the missing gaps on the edges of it. Yes, we have discussed that and yes, I think the challenge ultimately is without the proper traffic control in place, we are not comfortable with opening it to the public use and encouraging use given the fact that those intersections don't have traffic control in place. I was picturing in between the Sears Lane to Home Ave stretch and things that wouldn't be traffic controlled anyways. Sears Lane is going to have signals at that intersection and Home Ave will have signals at that intersection. I know when it's ready to go. Yeah, so it was a discussion that we did have internally we will not be plowing that section. It will be open to the public in early spring. We are going to try to push the contractor to start before the April 15th normal start date. Okay. And what about Flynn and the driveway to the Queen City Brewery in there? That's a little steep. I managed to flat out on that one. It's like a ruddered up lip where the surface isn't quite there yet. Right. I imagine that's because we're saving room for a final coat. Yes. In the spring. There's some rough edges. Yes. Okay, so that's good to know. I mean, I will double check if we are not putting in a top coat or the next coat of pavement, we can look at putting in a transitional ramp if there's a great challenge there. So you're saying on Flynn Avenue by Burlington Beer Company. Pass the train tracks to turn in there. Okay, great. There may be others around, like getting in and out of the electric department and places, but say pay attention to the details. You go to B.B. Co. It's him. Yeah. We are working this week on Pine Street and so ramps along Pine Street and another coat are going down. So Pine Street should be improved. I'll check on Flynn Avenue. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Any update on staffing? Staffing. So you have 13 open positions posted? Yes. None of your planning positions? So staffing, well, the planning positions, if they're not posted, it's because they're posted for a set period and then they have to be reposted. So we have not hired yet for planners. So that's good feedback that the 30 day window must have just clicked and that we have to go follow up with HR and get it reposted. So planning, transportation planning is still a work in progress. We don't have either of the two positions filled. Our shortest team is still in water distribution where we have two of 10 positions filled. We do have two people who have been hired who haven't started yet, which is great and two potential people we're negotiating with. So we could be up to six by next month. That is still our area of greatest burn. Otherwise, in the organization, we're generally well staffed. Street maintenance, which leads the winter maintenance on our streets and sidewalks is well staffed for this year. Okay. Thanks for the update. Yeah. I think further here. To the side of the table. I don't think I have anything. Thank you. Thanks. Very commissure bar. Thanks. I always give kudos and I have to do it again for all the construction that's going around the city. And it's still not terrible to get around, try to get around it. But it's, I know that the construction season is short for us and there's a lot that you're doing. And I just want to say, I appreciate it and my neighborhood appreciates it. And another plug for your team that's been working with the old East End. Just, we get answers so quickly. We, things are working out. We really appreciate the connection and the partnership that we have with public work. So. Great. It's helpful to have this organized group and you've helped improve the pedestrian safety down in the old East End. So, thank you. No commissure comments from me. Wow. I almost didn't have any. Before I left, because I, no, I came home on my bike of course. The speed cushions. So, for another time I'll unpack the term cushion because I think of a cushion as something different. You can have cocktails at my friend's house and watch people just like blow over them. And I think just from, we walk our dog there every single night, kind of hysterical to see who's gonna bottom out. And then kind of just like, whoa, people are going way too fast. So, realizing that they do play a role. But I do think that they seem really steep. So, I and our car, when I drive over it, you really, really have got to slow down. Two, like three miles an hour, if more. Yeah. But it is a significant slow. And then it's a speed up and then it's a slow. So, I just don't know if they're doing what they're supposed to be doing. Right. I also noticed, which this makes me nervous as a cyclist, I'm sure there are reasons for drainage and so forth. But as you get close to the curb line, there, like the hump, the cushion, doesn't go all the way to the edge. So, I see cars scooching over so that one tire doesn't hit it like that.  So, and then the signage, now that the leaves are off the trees, well, I still think the signage is a little off because you have those, the stripes that kind of get you to identify that something is coming up, but the sign's almost right on top of it. And it was hard to see even what the sign said until you were right on top of the speed cushion. Yeah, thank you. That's my comment on the speed cushion. And then the speed cushion versus speed hump or a speed bump. Last week, someone spoke about Tower Terrace and I just kind of want to keep laying this out there about other streets that are hemmed in by resident-only parking when, and I don't know how if we can do an ordinance change or anything like that, but just as the city continues to do work in the public right-of-way where there's some residents who then can't access their driveway and have no place else to park, it's really challenging. So just figuring out what the city can do either in those temporary situations or just figuring out these kind of islands of no resident parking in residence. Yeah, yes, RPP is the bane of my existence. And yes, I did follow up belatedly with the gentleman from last month, seeing if some time-limited parking on Willard would assist depending on what their use was, whether short-term parking would be sufficient to create the turnover. For them, then, to have to live with the short-term turnover parking. So we'll follow up with them. I think your point, Chair O'Neill-Vanco, about the work being done in RPP areas and not having a place to go is one that, yes, needs to be addressed and we need to give more flexibility at times of construction to be able to park in adjacent RPP areas. That's all I have. Residential zones is probably the answer. Yeah, so by my magic wand. All right, so let's close out item eight, which came after item nine. Next item, motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. Second, all right, great. Any discussion? All in favor? Thanks. All right, bye. All right, meeting is adjourned at 8.43 p.m.