Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show Fridays are some of our favorite days because it's ask and answer and every Friday We get to get one of the brain Trust folks from fundraising Academy to come with us and explore the questions that people Send in tweet in I guess we should say X in Ask on the street. I was part of a panel this week movie for something unrelated to the nonprofit show and somebody asked me During this panel or like at the end of the panel came up to me and said hey Can you put this question on an upcoming episode? Don't put my name, but ask this question I mean so you know what I mean? It's kind of a fun thing again I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy been joined today by Mui Kauaja trainer from fundraising Academy and also Interestingly enough the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation Which we are going to get him on to just specifically talk about his journey with that community foundation and and what that looks like and and how he's been able to integrate his Knowledge and work with fundraising Academy into that as somebody that's had to go out and pound the pavement So we're really looking forward to that and and we will rope him into that shortly, you know at the the American nonprofit Academy started the nonprofit show at the outside the onset really of the pandemic and most of these sponsors Said yes that first week and they include Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller non-profit thought leader Fundraising Academy at National University where movie joins us from staffing boutique non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk if you've missed any Of our nine hundred nearly nine hundred episodes or you want to share them? Check us out. We have a fabulous app You can catch us on streaming broadcasts portals where you or you like to engage with that or in podcast format So we will be with you wherever you are Okay, my friend ready for the first question. This is a doozy Such an interesting question I am the board liaison and I'm having issues with older board members who can't use our meeting technology in board portal Do you have any suggestions that can help us get to our older board members? Up to date so they can be up to date big question. I I swear to you I Do a lot of work about board liaisons and board work. I get this question all the time and it's a it's a deep frustration Yeah, so I'll have two things I'll share, you know, just having moved back to Michigan after traveling all this time I'm now back with my parents for a few months and it's a great time really is and I am Their IT tech person, right? I am connecting the internet I'm making sure their devices are up to date and I am making sure they can print wirelessly All of the things right so Times it just takes That hand-holding approach and saying why don't we grab a coffee? We'll log you in I'll show you how to access everything Now if there's resistance there, that's a whole other issue, right? But you know similarly at AMCF we have a board member who's you know, probably in his 50s not even that old I would say and Just still, you know Getting into the Gmail environment getting into Slack Two-factor authorization. Oh my goodness like all of these things, right? It happens and it sometimes it takes weeks and months to figure it out, but you just got to make that extra effort to Tie any loose ends and see what are the challenges in the technology in the portal And how can they make the user experience easier for people who may have some challenges with technology? You know, I agree with you and it's interesting because you know, Nancy comes from Palo Alto and That's the you know, the pretty much this point a Silicon Valley Isn't that isn't that interesting and I would imagine if Nancy had written in from like Denver or Cincinnati or you know, I don't know where it might be a little different sense because she's probably in a in an environment where things are all tech all the time Super high functioning and then it doesn't take that much Not to be Functioning with some of these new portals and stuff and so I really like what you said It's not a one-and-done thing. You can't just like meet up and say okay Here's how you do it boom boom boom boom boom. You're gonna have to kind of work with them on a journey build some confidence I Find that with my mom when I'm helping her with you know with tech And I am the same way I like to write everything down. I like to write the steps down so that I can go back to my notes and refer to it It's not a you know quick. I'll just show you and it's gonna be you know seated in the brain So it is a process Now I agree with you or I'm kind of curious before we move on to the next question If you do have somebody who's resistant and says why can't you just send me? You know snail mail me the board packet. We did that for years and that was fine. What do you how do you navigate that? So I think the Navigating challenging board members is a whole other beast in and of itself, right? It's the personalities involved. Maybe you're just not the best person on the staff to deal with it Put in somebody else on the you know tag team get them into the ring Have them jump off the top ropes and suplex the board member in a very gentle way See what you can do to manage egos manage personalities learn the psychology of the Board member we talk a lot at fundraising academy about Social styles and what type of don't you know personality the board member has So that's something to look into and see who is the best person on your staff Or maybe do a joint approach with the board member who is Providing this resistance and get down to the crux of it you know, that's a very wise thing is to Embrace that concept of social style and how you communicate and I I appreciate what you said You know you the board the board liaison that writes in Nancy may not be the best person to navigate this and to own it and say okay How do we pull somebody in and how do we allow somebody to champion? This process because you're gonna have to you're gonna have to get through it. Absolutely. Well, really interesting Nancy We wish you luck. I feel your pain sister. I really do because I've been there and it's tough Okay, let's move on to oh, you know my favorite name with held from Tampa, Florida We had a major donor call us about a new donor who they think is not a quote-unquote Nice person from our community the older donor who has always been supportive made some alarming declarations about this new donor help Wow Yeah, you know alarming declarations That causes me to pause Is it things around how they earn their wealth? Is it things around their personality is it things about their political stance in the community? Is it things about how they treat others? is it You know around allegations of misconduct in the workplace or personally professionally Yeah, there's a lot that is undisclosed but I think the best way to Receive this is to thank the older donor for their concern And let them know that you've taken note of it but then proceed with a grain of salt in approaching the new donor and Maybe just have that in the back of your mind But don't let it affect the relationship with the nonprofit unless it is really alarming And then you can make a decision is this somebody's gift that we don't want to accept it because their values don't align with our values So I could see both sides of it, but I would just kind of do the politically correct thing in this situation and assess it for yourself before making a Straight-on decision just based on the older donors inclinations Have you ever done that like where you quote-unquote refund the the money or Extricate yourself from a donor and could you maybe share that journey without disclosing who it was? Yeah, no, I've I've been in conversations where donors have offered support And before they gave had to decline based on alignment of The gift and what they were expecting Not necessarily because they were a Bad person and we didn't want to accept their money But it just wasn't good alignment or fit with the vision and mission of the organization and what the donor Was hoping to achieve with the gift and it was actually better placed at another nonprofit And I gave them references to that nonprofit and they actually end up giving a gift to the other nonprofit That strengthened the relationship with the donor oddly enough The other nonprofit was appreciative of the recommendation as a philanthropic advisor It allowed me to gain more respect with the donor because I could have easily accepted the money right But then it became this friendship advisor relationship going forward and They often ask me like hey, I'm thinking of setting up a scholarship for this or hey I'm thinking of building wells in Developing countries what are your thoughts on this organization or so they just come back to me for advice on on this And they're not even a donor advice fund holder at AMCF. This is just like somebody who they really should be right? Yeah Yeah, so that's the thing yeah, so two things come to mind if you think about that the cause selling cycle that Fundraising Academy works on, you know the very two first pieces our discovery Research really looking, you know, you're you know, you're not even thinking about asking You're trying to really determine if the fit is good and if the if this is can be a long-term relationship and So I'm fascinated. You must have done that somehow because you said before they ever gave You were you were having this discussion about the alignment. It wasn't oh crap We cashed the check and we spent the money and now what are we gonna do? I mean, right? Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean sometimes I kind of wish I was in that scenario where I did accept a gift and Later had to have a tough conversation with the donor saying, you know, you gave this as an unrestricted gift And then now you're saying after the fact you want it to go towards x y and z Let's have these conversations prior to you giving like I'd love to have that conversation with a donor as a teaching moment to share like you can't be giving what strings attached and Also, hopefully being able to then benefit the organization still in unrestricted giving So I can see it go both ways and I can play a hard line on behalf of the Organization and on behalf of the donor. So Yeah, but I definitely agree having these discovery meetings Asking the right questions getting clarity on what they want to support and matching that with the mission and vision of the organization is super critical Well, and I think you know to take this to the next level I've personally been involved as a board member with a named Part of a camp of a large campus for art for a nonprofit where something Untoward happened with the naming right the person who a big part of our campus was named after and There wasn't what we used to call the bad boy clause in the MOU in the memo of understanding where the contract that spelled out How you extricate yourself from from certain things Tough lesson learned because it ended up being played out in the media Yeah, and another reason why gift agreements are so important Yeah, yeah, I mean that's like a whole nother thing. Well name withheld I think we has given you some great advice and Hopefully we will help you along that journey check back in with us DeVita from Colorado Springs, Colorado writes who takes the lead in making sure that board members fulfill their board service requirements We have some on the board who say it is the board chair and others think it is the CEO We could use some guidance on this You know mookie when I first got this I thought it was probably more like the Give or get meeting attendance, you know filling tables at certain Events, you know, so I'm thinking that's part of that board service requirement and who monitors and who who manages and Who enforces it? Who's the hammer that comes down on that board member? It's a good question Yeah DeVita be helpful to know what's your role within the organization? Are you a board member? Are you a staff member a CDO? someone on the development team Or the CEO yourself so You know part of me wants to say the onus is on the board member themselves they should be signing an agreement They should be understanding what the requirements are The bylaw should clearly dictate what these requirements are for the organization and board members knowing their term limit what the minimum gift that they're giving should be and How they show up and serve on committees within the organization so if they And we have had board turnover at AMCF. We have had low engagement at other boards that Been part of that organizations People love to help but they also bite off more than they can chew. Yes, that's just common fact and I think working with these board members should be Joint effort because the board chair is likely their peer The CEO reports to the board Right, so they can have some authority In the situation, but I think the board chair really needs to lead by example and Enforce the requirements The advice can come from the CEO. Yes And maybe stronger in a joint way, but it won't be as effective if the board chair is not Owning it in some way as well Yeah, I kind of follow along the same lines as you I mean first and foremost this needs to be Structured communicated laid out and there needs to be an agreement and those agreements I believe should be managed every December December prior to the next year a lot of organizations wait until January and then it's like March But time by the time everything comes in it's like no Do it the year before so everybody understands moving forward for the year and you know, moohi you've heard me talk about it I'm a big big proponent of a board liaison and so I agree. I think that the board chair is the one responsible for this But the board liaison should be that person tracking it and doing the gentle reminder or asking, you know, where folks are You know that kind of a thing, especially if you have an organization. I was working with somebody Last week and they told me they ran five boards So they had the main, you know board of directors and then they had basically auxiliary boards, right and I was just like I Actually said well kill me now I don't know how you can do your work and run that many boards and have all these, you know filtering aspects of what they need to be doing Without some sort of major support. So yeah, it's a very interesting question and it needs to be spelled out I think also, you know, I had the game so everybody knows Whose responsibility it is and they can navigate it so it doesn't get To be a bigger problem, right at the end of the year, you're like wow, Sally You were supposed to have done this this this and that and you didn't it's a little late, right? Definitely and I think AMCF has our annual meeting. So this is exactly when we do that We bring the whole board together. They review the bylaws the articles of incorporation This and anything internal so This is exactly dealt with at that time Then we have a separate Retreat for the strategic plan and we do that annually as well. So two different meetings two different agendas One is more internally focused. The other is externally focused But both super critical to the Organizations health Yeah, absolutely. Well DeVita, good luck I think this is a really important thing to you know navigate and to understand and to manage because Otherwise you get a lot of hurt feelings and you get people that get really cranky and then you're not working on the mission You're working on something that's kind of an internal function that should have been managed. So Anyway, okay, now this is an interesting interesting question And this doesn't happen very often, but somebody wrote in a question for you my friend Mouhi Kwaja Mouhi, I've been watching you for a while on the nonprofit show. My question is this How long did it take for you to build confidence and become such a strong fundraiser? That's so nice Steve. Thank you so much for writing in and watching You know part I feel like I've always had a strong sense of Organizational skill leadership skill dating back to like high school and different sports different clubs So I have to give credit to being like the youngest of four siblings So having older siblings that showed me what it was like Being in those leadership positions I have to thank like my mentors along the way jack a lot of who's been on the show frequently and many others who've Uplifted me and gave me the confidence to be a strong fundraiser and then role models like Malcolm X and Martin Luther King and Muhammad Ali fierce strong voices for social justice And people still with us today like Linda Sarsour and Rashida Tlaib and So many others so I think you know I Give it back to to them And then it was you know ever since my first job right out of College at the University of Michigan through development summer internship program. That was so foundational and critical for me in building my confidence as a fundraiser and my mentor there Kat Walsh, so Yeah, I would say have mentors who have the confidence and are strong fundraisers because Who you surround yourself with will reflect who you become So yeah, I think it goes back to the people that I've surrounded myself with And one other leader that I'll give a shout out to is Farhan Latif He was with me at University of Michigan He's now the president foundation at El Hibri Foundation so just kind of like seeing this trajectory of these people in their career and reaching out to them every few months and just picking their brain and Yeah, but my whole experience from the small nonprofits. I've been a one-person development team At to the Red Cross where I was a frontline fundraiser as a major gift officer for five years So it's like a lot of it's experiential as well And having the opportunity to be in those places So what I hear you say two things.  Yeah for sure and imposter syndrome is real like the last year and a half Like I stepped away from AMC F a lot We had a ED they just resigned a few months ago. So now I'm stepping back in and owning what is there And the opportunity and everything that comes with that And I think that I'm a lifelong learner. I'm always gonna have a mentor. I'll always mentee I'll always be a mentor to somebody else And I learn a lot through that experience So I definitely think that You have to stay hungry if you want to be A lifelong learner and just somebody who's making a difference. Yeah, it's cool I like that because I when I read that question. I thought it's gonna be like A specific time frame. I needed three years. I needed six years and seven months or whatever But I I appreciate the that it's a journey and it's a continual It's a flow and it's there's not like a hard-baked answer To that. So that's cool. Well, um, you know, I love chatting with you muhi because I feel like you You bring a different perspective of What it takes to be in this environment? How you navigate, you know, different things professionally Personally, you've always been very transparent in your your own personal journey and and as a man of faith I love all that that blend and so it's been really cool And it continues to be cool muhi kawaja. I'm a trainer with fundraising academy co-founder of the american muslim community foundation Such an interesting journey that you've taken and that you continue to do In the green room chatter you were talking about all of the amazing places that you've been just in the last like 15 days It seems like, you know talking and serving on panels and sharing your knowledge and your wisdom So we thank you for that muhi from our sector. It's really a powerful thing that you do and that you share Again, we want to thank Oh, it's it's it's amazing. I always get to put I always put myself on when you're going to be on I'm always like I want to do I want to be the one that talks with him because I'm fascinated Hey, everybody. We have amazing sponsors Bloomerang American non-profit academy your part-time controller non-profit thought leader Fundraising academy at national university staffing boutique Non-profit nerd and non-profit tech talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out And you know, I know muhi knows this but but you as our viewer listener might not Realize these amazing sponsors of ours. Um, they don't exert any editorial control So we can talk about what it is We feel like we need to talk about I mean muhi you you made the comment early on in today's episode about Unrestricted funding and in some ways our sponsors are like that to us. They They trust us and um, and we we get to really chat day in and day out Across the board so many different things. And so that's really an amazing thing that they partner with us So muhi it is now fray. Yay as gerrit ransom the non-profit nerd would say We're going to hopefully get some rest And then we will hit it hard again on monday and as we like to end every episode of the non-profit show We want to remind our viewers listeners our guests and ourselves To stay well So you can do well muhi. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful weekend


From Austin, Texas, it's theCube, covering Pure Storage Accelerate 2019, brought to you by Pure Storage. Welcome back to Austin. I'm Lisa Martin with Dave Vellante. We're at Pure Accelerate 2019, the fourth annual event, getting bigger and bigger and more customers on theCube. Very excited to welcome the CIO of Kensington Swan, Nigel Stephenson. Nigel, welcome to theCube. Thank you, thanks. Thanks for coming all the way up here or down here up here from New Zealand. Give us, our audience, a little bit of an overview of Kensington Swan and specifically about your role as CIO. Sure, Kensington Swan's a top tier law firm in New Zealand. And actually, we've got a bit of an announcement from last month. We're about to combine with Dentons, which you might know more familiar from a brand kind of perspective, slightly larger than what we are at the moment. We're a few hundred staff split between two officers in Auckland and Wellington with a focus on corporate commercial legal practices. So, top tier or high end law expertise. So you've been there about three years. Give us a little bit of a picture of Kensington's IT department applications, workloads. What's going on there? I guess we're pretty similar to most law firms or professional services firms, which are similar with their accounting firms as well. The most common tools we use around the ERP or the practice management systems that we have. And then production of documents for the work that we provide to our clients. Maintaining those, keeping them, searching for them. And all the emails and everything else that goes along every single matter that we do. From a compliance perspective, we need to keep all of that and make sure it's safe and sound and easily searchable.   What are the big drivers in the business that are affecting IT strategy? I think, especially in the professional services sector, just to continue to modernize, we've had systems and after the last recession, things tightened up a bit for a while and then we've had a large push over the last few years to really bring things up to date, bring it, make it more current and relevant to what's out there. With that, we can then bring on other applications and AI and other tools that will really help us to drive the business in different directions. Is the first time you're at Accelerator? Yeah, yeah. So let's talk infrastructure. So paint a picture. What's it look like?  So what's the storage infrastructure look like? We've had, I guess, what you'd be a pretty typical infrastructure for many, many years with the two data center model, VMware storage servers and so on and then replicated across from a DR perspective to the other data center. We've gone through a big decision around where do we go with it? Do we take that out to the cloud? Do we keep it on-prem? Do we keep the two data centers one? We've ended up deciding this to go with the single production data center based in Auckland, where we've got some DR capability in their Wellington office, but then plan to scale up to the cloud. So we've got enough compute to keep us going, the systems that we've got as we grow will move. So you had two replicated data centers essentially, is that right, so expensive? Yeah. And then you've essentially now got a main data center, you got some, a little bit of lightweight infrastructure for DR purposes, is that right? Yeah, we previously essentially had two of everything, well more than two of everything, but everything we had at the production, we had at the secondary data center, a lot of it sat there semi idle for quite a lot of the time. And as you say, it's quite expensive to have a lot of equipment sitting there, not really being used. So moving more to single data center model, replicating some of the infrastructure, but then not the full set as we've ended up. So the decision to stay on-prem versus go all in the cloud, talk to us about some of the business drivers that led you to say we're going to stay on-prem and within that, what elevated pure storage to the obvious choice? Yeah, sure, there's a lot of benefits of cloud model. And I think that's really helped, I guess, influence where the on-prem hardware's gone as well, and we'll get to that in a second. With things like the scalability of it, the simplicity, not having to have very experienced storage technicians and so on. And I think back to my days when I was first in IT and putting together other brands of storage, and it was a multi-month process, certifications after certifications, just to be able to plug it together and then configure and code the storage array. With the cloud, and what we found with pure storage, that's just become really simple. Now within a couple of hours of the array arriving that was wrecked, it was turned on, it was cut into the pool and presented through to VMware. So just really, really simple. Oh, the bit twiddling of the past really didn't do much for your business, obviously. But then you chose to stay on-prem. Many law firms do, just because of the privacy and the confidentiality and... Yeah, but... Add some color to that decision. There's a couple of angles to it. The first one being performance. We don't need to make sure that the lawyers get the performance that they need. They charge in six minute increments, like most. And if they can't work, then they're not billing, they're not working, they're not providing to their clients and their clients also want that work done at a good speed and return to them as quickly as possible. And as the world has moved more to that client-centric approach, delivering to the clients becomes ultimate impairment to what we do. So performance was definitely key. The economics of it as well. When we looked at cloud and on a price per gig per month with Pure, it worked out very competitive. So it wasn't quite there to move into the cloud. New Zealand, we don't have the AWS or Azure data centers based in New Zealand. They're all in Australia. So there's a latency aspect of going many thousands of miles across the undersea cables to get to that data. On-prem it's right there, it's fast, it's connected. And we can definitely perform it. So you've essentially replaced your spinning disk with flash, is that correct? Yeah, so that was one of the other parts of it. Wanted to get something that was definitely modern and set us for the future for quite a number of years. We didn't look at spinning disk at all. We just went and looked at what flash arrays were available. We have had spinning disk prior, but definitely wanted to go all flash. How important was the Evergreen model to you? Is it, how much of it is marketing and how much is it big business impact for you? Quite a few other places I've worked. We've hit that three-year or five-year support model challenge where all of a sudden the support can hockey stick up and become really, really expensive to carry on the arrays. So one of the other drivers was from an environmental perspective of, if you've got to throw that equipment out after five years but it's still working fine, that's not really great on the environment. So with the, from the flash perspective as well as the Evergreen, being able to maintain and keep that equipment running and going for longer than five years without a sharp uplift in the cost was really, really important. That sustainability was important to you guys. So you, before we went live, you mentioned that you guys have been a pure customer since about December of 2018. So about 10 months or so, so those lawyers that are billing every few minutes have to get access to data because the clients are demanding, what's been their reaction to the performance that you're delivering to them and any correlation with revenue that the business has made because of the decision to stay on-prem? I'll tell you what, the best thing about it is they don't complain that things are slow anymore. You know, so they always say in IT, if you're not hearing any issues, then you're doing a good job. And we're definitely in that camp. The systems run significantly faster than what they were previously. And that was on a five-year-old array that was reasonable at the start as well. So the leap forward has been really recognisable from a performance perspective. So you don't get the outer boy, but you just don't get the grief. Yeah, yeah, it's not very often that people come and say that, you know, with accolations in that sense in IT. But it sounds like it also simplified your management. You described it used to take a long time to provision an array before and now it's sort of same day or part of a portion of a day. What have you done with that additional resource? Did you riff people? Did you redeploy them? What did you do? I guess you take the same style of, if you do move things to the cloud, you know, or any type of outsourcing model, you essentially just freeing up time. And the staff have got now work on other things, you know, we're slowly moving up the stack on a value add perspective of what we deliver. Delving more into automation, integration, you know, digital contract processing. The area that I think we should be working in rather than, you know, tweaking the nuts and bolts. Although that's where I started, so it was a good career path at the time. Okay, please. Okay, being able to get to that value add is something that we talk with a lot of customers about. And that's absolutely critical about not spending so much time at managing something. I want to get my job done. So a number of announcements came out today. I'm just curious to get your take on, for example, this kind of customer force that Dave and I were talking about with Charlie Giancarlo, their CEO just a minute ago, about this bridge to hybrid cloud. You mentioned an acquisition or a merger coming with Dentons. How would something like this hybrid bridge that Pierre announced with AWS, how might that be a facilitator of the merger or maybe even, it's the IT foundation that you've established with Pierre that's going to be a great facilitator of that pending aqua merger? I think one of the slides in the keynote this morning talked about the on-prem and the cloud world being quite separate. And we found that and as we've looked, whenever we go out to market, we'll look at both options and take a best of breed approach to what we then cure or subscribe to. We've got into some cloud solutions. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to mention brands at all, but so we have got cloud. You are from our standpoint, but maybe you're from your corporate standpoint. Be careful. So we've got a bit of both, but it has been a bit hard to bridge the two, even from a backup DR perspective, and then also from scaling the on-prem applications into the cloud, some things just work better in the cloud or better architected in the clouds, especially some remote access solutions where if we've got issues, we want that separate or that air gap between our systems and the access for the staff. And that's kind of the space that we've delved into for that. So being able to join those worlds a lot more seamlessly and through the same management consoles, and it's just going to make life a lot easier. We'll be able to scale back and forward so we can move the data. I mean, actually, I remember years and years ago talking to storage vendors and saying, well, how can we can't replicate our data up to a different brand or a different service, in this case, with the adoption on cloud that's still very prevalent. Yeah, so ideally you'd like a common management framework, control plane, data plane, backup framework. Is that right? Is that an objective between cloud and on-prem? I mean, it definitely helps. One of the other things that was mentioned in the keynote is around the availability of skilled people. I think with my generation, I started off in desktop support and then worked my way through infrastructure and project management and team management and so on. The people coming out of university now don't really have that same career path. They're trying to slide in, somewhere up the stack. And very... And they started Python and worked their way up. And they're more in the development space rather than the infrastructure space. So the ability to find staff that have the knowledge of those systems is getting harder and harder. So the cloud model, almost storage as a service on the on-prem sense cuts through that and it means that you don't need those staff. With the commonality of the tools, that also helps as well. You don't have to serve someone who's spent years and years training in a new solution to be able to then have the confidence to move into it. What are you actually installing from Pure? Is it vile storage, block storage, combination? We've got the X-Series Array. Yeah, okay, yeah. They're going for performance, obviously. Because I was thinking in the cloud, you might be more interested in an object store because of your document heaviness. But it kind of depends on the merger, I guess, and where you guys go. Yeah, you mentioned before, there's some data sovereignty concerns around where that data stays. And that's why I think a lot of the law firms probably are keeping some of their infrastructure on-prem. So for sovereignty aspects and performance, if it is there, it is performing. The cloud can perform in different ways. But having a bit of both gives you really a good choice. That best of breed model. So you feel with Pure Storage, you've got the foundation as this acquisition and this merger comes forward that everything's in place. Feel pretty confident about that? Yeah, we've got a lot of work to do over the next few months while we adjust what we've got from a software perspective to align with the Denton's global software suite. But I'm pretty confident that it can be delivered really well. So what's in the CIO's mind these days? Security, cloud, hybrid strategies, alignment with the business, what are your top three? I think, like I mentioned before, I'm really trying to kind of lift what we do to deliver value to the business. It depends on what type of business it is, but IT can be seen as a cost center. We really want to be able to be more involved in what, in our case, the lawyers are doing. The main project that we've got on at the moment is automating legal processes. Not to replace any people, but to augment what they do and to provide them better tools, more efficient tools. Tools that the younger lawyers, when they come in, can follow their way through and learn what that process is. We're also overlaying the legal aspects around that as well. It's not just an online form. It's a training guide. It's everything for each of those processes that we do.  Is it... We haven't quite got there. It's definitely on the list. Some of the things that we'd like to look at is things like machine readable software to go through documents, pull out snippets. A lot of the time lawyers will spend, they have to read through a lot of material, find key bits of information, and extract that to their news within the documents that we produce. Even in simpler processes, they're still doing that. They're loaned from the real complex, five, 600 page construction contracts. There's a lot that we could potentially help to find that information for them. When it comes into things like e-discovery for litigation, in the old days, they'd wheel in a truckload of paper file boxes. Guys must have loved that. You're billing at six minute increments. Now we get a hard drive with terabytes of data. We've got to troll through all of that. There's some real space that good AI tools can help cut through that significantly faster than your standard funnel-based search tools. Do you think software robots have a place, like robotic process automation, or is it... I think where we're going with it is the RPA will fit in between the human process. We're mapping out it more from a business process perspective where there's going to be some educational steps, some human steps, some RPA steps, and eventually get through to an outcome of delivering what the lawyers need for their clients. So last question that I have is, you know, when we do all these shows, we do like 100 events a year, everybody, you know, the vendors tell you how great they are, and so we always like to ask the practitioners, your experience with Pure, relative to other stores, you don't have to name names, but just, is it substantively different? How much, I guess, I ask you again, how much is marketing versus substantive business value for you as a practitioner? Yeah, so we've only had the array since December. One of the things I did a case study for Pure just recently, and one of the things I highlighted in there was the support. When you go on to a new vendor, or choose any different path, you're taking that kind of risk and the step into the unknown. We did have an issue a few weeks after we put the first array in, and they came in during Christmas break where we were all off, and in our case at the beach, which is a bit different in the Southern Hemisphere, but they came in flawlessly, sorted the issue out, got it back, working without us really having to do anything apart from letting them in the building. And that really gives us confidence in what they do, how they can deliver going forward, you know? And I think there's a lot of value in sharing that. These things don't always go very smoothly, but you need to have established that relationship with that partner that can be rapidly deployed to help, because ultimately I'm sure those lawyers either want to start billing every three minutes, or they want to be able to bill more every six minutes. So never a dull moment, Nigel, and you're well, but we thank you so much for joining David and me on The Kidman. Maybe next year we'll be talking about how AI is helping, hopefully, clients achieve better results. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. For Dave Vellante, I'm Lisa Martin. You're watching theCUBE.


Part 1. Circulation. After completing this part, you will know 1. How to find books and other materials in the library, 2. Where to check materials out, and 3. Where to return materials. Textbooks and other reading materials are essential and often mandatory for your coursework. Besides having many of the supplemental readings, articles, and journals that you may need for your classes, the library may also have the resources to find required textbooks elsewhere at no cost. Although you can search and find books and other materials on your own, library employees are always available to help. When you bring your course syllabi to a library employee at the second or fourth floor service desk of Alden Library, they will help you locate the material. The tool we'll most likely use to locate your materials is our library catalog system, Alice. In Alice, we can search for materials by titles, authors, and even by using keywords. If we own copies of the materials you are looking for, the Alice record will include which floor the materials are on and whether it is currently in the library or checked out to another library user. Here, in this Alice record, we can see that the book is located on the seventh floor, its call number, and it looks like it's available to be checked out. Now that we know the book is on the seventh floor of Alden Library, we can go to the seventh floor and start looking for it. Anytime you need help locating an item, just ask a library employee at either service desk on the second or fourth floors at Alden to assist you. Once you arrive at the book's location, you will discover that the other books on either side of that book are usually related to the subject of the book that you are looking for. This is because our books are organized by subject rather than by title or author. For example, let's take a look at two books about photography. Notice how similar their call numbers are. Both call numbers start with TR and are located on the third floor. So if we are looking for the book, Wildlife Photographer of the Year, on the third floor, we will most likely see Color Mania somewhere close by on the shelf. Once you have the book and other material you need from the library, go to either the second or fourth floor service desk with your Ohio ID card to check out the book. Your Ohio ID is your Ohio University Library card. The employee at the service desk will scan your ID and the barcodes of the materials you are borrowing, and they will inform you of the date the materials are due. Once you no longer need those materials, you may drop them off at either of the service desks or at our book returns on the second and fourth floors. Okay, but you ask, what if the materials you are looking for are not here at Alden Library? As previously mentioned, there are times when we do not have immediate direct access to the materials you need, either because it is checked out or we do not own it. When this happens, we can look in another catalog called Ohio Link for the material. Ohio Link is the name of our partnership with other university libraries around the state to share library materials. If you can find and order your materials at one of those libraries, it takes just three to five business days for the material to arrive at Alden Library, at which time you may check it out. This concludes part one, circulation.


The MSL group was inherited from my dad, and I'm very proud of that. Dad was Mori Lee, and his partner was Jim Selvidge, and they formed the business in 1938. In 1971, they combined with Manning, and it became Manning Selvidge and Lee, the MSNL. As a young boy, dad always talked about work, and at the time they were very involved with proxy fights. And they did a great job of defending management against hostile takeovers. They were involved with over 80 proxy fights, and the largest of that being the Montgomery Ward fight. And they were successful in all 80 cases of proxy fights of defending management from a hostile takeover. One of the fun PR pieces was when Howard Johnson's was opening in New York City, their first hotel. And what they decided to do for the grand opening is give free hot dogs to every cabbie in New York City. And that day, no one could find a cab. Where were the cabs? They were all at Howard Johnson's having their free hot dog. And where's Howard Johnson's? It all came around to be a great PR piece. They let loose a lot of crows within New York City, and people would call in and say they spotted these crows that were very unusual. And the answer was, well, that's a promotion for old crow bourbon. That was a PR stunt firm Manning Selvidge and Lee. Les Turner was a gentleman with ALS, Lou Gehrig's disease. And when he was at home in his wheelchair, he saw a neighbor throwing out LP records. And he thought if he could get them to donate those, he could resell them and raise funds for a foundation. They called up Manning Selvidge and Lee and asked for support of public relations. And they put together an idea of having a mammoth music mart.  That fundraiser went on for 25 years and raised millions of dollars. In 2014, it's great to see MSL Group helping the same organization that Les Turner turned to in the late 70s. I'm here in New York to support a very good friend, Doug McConnell. And Doug is going to swim around Manhattan. He'll swim this way, 28 and a half miles. And this isn't new to Doug. He swam the English Channel in 2011. He swam the Catalina Islands. He swam Tampa Bay. But this is the triple crown of long-distance swimming. Doug lost his dad to ALS. This swim is within a week of the anniversary of Lou Gehrig's famous speech, I'm the luckiest man in the world. Doug will be swimming right by Yankee Stadium to celebrate that. It's been wonderful working with some of the new leaders of MSNL on this promotion and seeing the power of the media and social media today in taking the story forward about Doug's swim. It's great to see the commitment of this organization being as strong as it was back in the 70s when dad was at the helm. Giving back is extremely important. I grew up seeing my dad giving back in many ways. For me, it's finding significance in life. It's finding purpose. And we all need to find our purpose.


Orkney is a treasure trove of mysterious and fascinating ancient structures from the Neolithic periods. The first ancient marvel we will focus on is the Ring of Brodgar, a stone circle located on the largest island of Orkney, mainland. The structure is thought to have been constructed between 2500 and 2000 BC, over 4000 years ago. It is the only stone circle in Britain that is almost a perfect circle, stretching 104 meters wide, surrounded by a rock-cut ditch. It originally contained 60 megaliths, but only 27 of these stones remain today. It is the third largest stone circle in the British Isles currently, behind Avebury's stone circle in Wilkshire, England, and the Stanton-Drew stone circles in summer sets. You can only imagine the sense of awe the Ring of Brodgar must have inspired amongst the people of ancient Orkney. Needless to say, the Ring of Brodgar probably played a significant astrological, perhaps tracking the lunar cycle, religious and ceremonial role in Neolithic Orkney. The second structure I want to focus on is the stones of Stanness, Circle and Henge, perhaps the oldest Henge in the British Isles. The site is around 5000 years old, constructed between 3100 and 2900 BC, most likely older than Stone Henge, which was constructed between 3000 and 2000 BC. The stones of Stanness was originally a circle of 12 large upright standing stones, which were up to 6m in height. Today, four of these stones remain. As for its purpose, Historic Environment Scotland states that our best guess is that they were involved in activities and ceremonies, celebrating the relationship between living and past communities. Excavations have shown that our Neolithic ancestors ate and cooked food at the site. If you are enjoying this video, please consider supporting me on Patreon for as little as £2 a month, or donating below. All the links are in the description below. Thank you. The third structure we are going to look at is the maze Howe, Chambered Cairn, built around 2800 BC on mainland Orkney. It is a Neolithic chambered cairn and passage grave, with its name having a partially Norse origin, as Howe comes from the Old Norse for Hill. Maze Howe has similarities to the famous New Grange tomb in Ireland, which I have made a video on before, potentially suggesting a link between the two cultures. Similar to New Grange, Maze Howe is astrologically aligned, as Historic Environment Scotland's website states, for the three weeks before and after the winter solstice, the shortest day of the year. The light of the setting sun shines straight down the passage and illuminates the back of the central chamber. The suns raise a line with the Burnhouse stone, a standing stone southwest of Maze Howe. Thousands of years after it was built, Norsemen broke into the Maze Howe Cairn, inscribing graffiti on the walls. Orkney itself was under Scandinavian control until the late 15th century. The village of Skara Brae is the fourth and final ancient structure that we are going to focus on, situated on the west coast of mainland Orkney. This stone-built settlement consists of 10 houses, home to stone beds and cupboards. They even had a primitive sewer system, with the houses having early forms of toilets and drains. Occupied from around 3200 to 2500 BC, Skara Brae is one of Europe's best preserved Neolithic villages. The people we occupied Skara Brae were not just hunter and gatherers, some argued that they farm crops such as wheat and barley, and weird animals such as sheep, cattle and pigs. The village was only uncovered in 1850, but in a huge storm blew the sand dune and earth that was masking the settlement. Along with numerous other attractions, Orkney serves as a time machine to explore the Neolithic civilisation that flourished on the archipelago. Thanks for watching. If you would like to support this work, through Patreon buy me a coffee dot com or make a donation through PayPal. Please do so via the links in the description below. Please remember to subscribe and hit the bell and I'll speak to you soon.


Thank you, Jeff. Why isn't that? There we go. Okay, good morning everybody. What I'm going to be talking to today is the core material and what we do with the cause and how we provide the cause to, to the rest of the specialists and to give you a sort of flavor within the context of the Southern River Valley which Simon has previously talked about. I'm a bit like a ringmaster here I just gather everybody else's data and parcel it up and do things with it and interpret it so this is based on, this talk is based on lots of people's work but I would like to point out John Whitaker who whose role is crucial in the, the approach that we've adopted and you'll see how this works in due course. I'm not being able to move forward. Okay, so I'm going to talk about the landscapes why landscapes I just like those quotes by Crawford about the intellectual delights of working on past geographies. I just thought I'd share those with you. But I'm really talking about this area here this is the Southern River Valley that Simon was talking about he showed you seismic line across the mouth of the valley here. And it's this area here and all the cause that's really from the focus of my talk today. So, here we are in these blue dots here are the cause and the location of the cause in the Southern River Valley between these postulated and moraines of the ice. During the last cold stage and of course we're off the East Anglian coast here. And just outside this white zone where we don't have any data that Mark was referring to before. So these are our cause we got 33 sample locations. Approximately some of these core locations have more than one core, they've been replicated. But we've got 33 sample locations. The cause that we're talking about range from a meter in length to up to five meters in length. Some of them, like core 38 over here goes straight into till others fully penetrate the Holocene some don't get to the bottom of the Holocene and some are in bedrock. So they vary in terms of what's in them and how long a record they preserve. And I should think about 50% of those 33 cores have sequences in them that have been used for the environmental reconstruction of this area. Now just to show you how big an area we're talking about because I think it's quite difficult very often to think about the scale and scope of some of these landscapes where they're buried down beneath the sea. So what I've just done here is superimposed a map of the Lower Thames on to our Southern River Valley. So here you can see the northernmost cause here's the mouth of River Valley here and this is the Lower Thames from Central London and the houses of Parliament down to the areas that's swinging out into the more open estuary. So we're dealing with a valley that's about that length and I think that's quite important because when we think about the number of data points about the number of lines of information that we're trying to use to reconstruct this landscape. We need to bear in mind the sort of scale of the landscape that we're talking about. It's also worth pointing out that while in a situation like the Lower Thames we're dealing with a River Valley where most of our sequences along the main River Valley are used to reconstruct the main processes that have been going on in that landscape. Sometimes the little tributary valleys are also equally if not more important. So for example in the Lower Thames the absolute this tiny little insignificant valley here preserves a really important record of environmental change both during the Holocene and back into the Pleistocene. So when we're thinking about niches and locations in which humans might be doing things we need to bear in mind the different scales that we're working at. The other thing to bear in mind. Again I'm using an example from the Lower Thames here from the Dartford Bridge out towards the estuary. This is an attempt to reconstruct the early Holocene landscape beneath the flood plain based on 880 data points. It's still difficult even without high resolution of data and we've got 33 data points in our landscape, but of course we also have the seismic data which we don't have in the Lower Thames. So these are all just things to ponder and think about when we're trying to reconstruct these sorts of landscapes. So the model we're using for this landscape is that of a tide dominated estuary as in this model by Dalrymple where we have marine dominated and a meandering river dominated parts of the estuary and where we go from tidal channels through mud flat salt marsh into freshwater wetland and that just gives you the sort of sense of how we begin to think about this landscape and how it's operating. So in a sort of long profile through the river and this has become important later on we move from open estuarine marine conditions through brackish tidal mud flats into a tidal river and into the freshwater river. And these are obviously all associated with their own unique assemblages of plants and animals and also sediment types as indicated there. And those are not an exhaustive list of the types of sediments we'd find in those areas of course. So when we've been looking at the doggaland cores and we've been working on them we can find in this landscape, all of these sorts of environments of deposition and associated sedimentary sequences and you can see that the cause core numbers down here not all of these are hastened to add come from the southern river, but majority of them do. What we don't see, apart from freshwater marsh sequences peak deposits here are what I would call true terrestrial deposits. We don't see colluvium, we haven't seen anything in any of our cores that resembles the sort of colluvial sequences that you'd find either in the Lake Glacier or in the Holocene. And we don't see well developed paleosols in any of these locations even where we're drilling on the the tail where you'd expect potentially a paleosol to be developed, we don't see these. And this is perhaps not surprising because the the cores have been located away from those sorts of situations in many cases to get the big picture story. Let me show you what the sort of sequences might look like in if we were to able to see them on an open section on the seabed. This is the sort of basal peak that we see in the Thames and this is the sort of peak that we see in a number of our cores in the southern elsewhere. So basing again the sort of anticipated sequences that we might find in our system on the sort of model for southern England this is the sort of model that I would use for for the lower reaches of many of our river valley showing the relationship between the late Pleistocene gravels and the solid flexion deposits on the valley sides that the alluvium the Australian Louvin with intercalated pates and then the colluvium so again this is the sort of model that we have in our mind and we're thinking about these. And of course we need to think about the controls on the on these processes and things like tectonic movements sediment input and output sea level rise and fall and biogenic K alongside climate change are all important to consider when we're trying to interpret our sedimentary sequences. So what happens to the cause when they come back off the boat. The cause are recovered. They were taken to the university in Warwick, where we spent a long time in a very small room and dressed in white suits and masks and gloves, not very comfortable also under red light to cut the cause because we wanted to be able to use the cause for both sedating and paleo environmental and geological and DNA analysis so the cause of split in the red under red light half the core was wrapped in black plastic that went off to stored in in in Lampeter in the core store here that you can see. It was bought for the project and then OSL dating being done at St Andrews the other half of the core after splitting under red light was taken into the it will turn the lights on we were able to sample for DNA. The cause went back to Lampeter. We undertook the recording of photography and rapid assessment of the samples and rangefinder dating and I'll talk about the rapid assessment in a minute. That provided the information from primary deposit model and the litho stratigraphic environmental synthesis. That's the sort of level I'm talking about today. It then went the cause also went through primary assessments for pollen for diatoms and things. The analysis followed highlight high resolution radiocarbon dating. We've also done a geochemical core scanning which you'll hear about this afternoon, and then the final phase once everybody done whatever they wanted to do with the cause. They were chopped up for plant macrophosal beetle and mollusk analysis. And that there is still core material available at the core, the core store is still full of many of these sequences so we do retain the possibility of additional works which we didn't anticipate at the outset of this project so anybody's got any wacky ideas or interesting ideas to do with the cause then there may well be material out there for you. So we went to the core materials we looked at we would take samples through the major stratigraphic units, assess for the preservation of all sorts of material plant material ostrichods forums diatoms mollusks small mama remains, etc. So we got a quick look see as to what's there John Whitaker did this this is his work. He used the forums and the ostrichods divided into groups based on different environmental tolerances to characterize the deep positional environment of each of the major stratigraphic units. And here's his, his table here, we're also able to identify species present which might be cold climate things which might be warm climate things which might be reworked from the Pleistocene, etc. So here's health 19 stigraphy and this rapid assessment and the subdivision of that cause and then that information is used by the rest of the polyenvironmental team to decide where and what to sample. So, here we are, here's the Southern Valley I've divided into Valley mouth, the outer valley the inner valley and an inner basin and what I call the saddle here. These are the sort of main gym orthological parts of this valley and each area has its own relatively unique set of sequences. Here you can see the elevation the top of the cause not the bottom of the cause from the inner basin down to the valley mouth broadly declining as one might expect an elevation down valley sequence and oddity down here. I constructed a series of transects across across the valleys here show the profiles the modern day profiles of the valley. And so you can see here, here's the inner basin around about minus 26 meters here's the saddle and the inner valley here's getting the inner basin, and then we move down the system. And this in the valley mouth is approximately where Simon showed that seismic section briefly and I can see I'm running up against time. A few of the results this is the sequence of course across the valley mouth here in this sort of direction here and you can see on the, on the West side here cause very thin we're onto bedrock chalk interesting bedrock chalk outcropping very close to the surface down here. Across the rest of the area, we see cause that are dominated by sand fashies that are producing dates of between 80,000 and about 35,000 on a number of cause across this area. So putting these back in the Pleistocene in isotope stage four and three. So there's the correlation of those all showing the same fashies. Here's John's rapid microfossil assessment and you can see, these are outer estuarine environments. They've got cool and cold climate forums and forum species in here suggesting that these are cold climate things and here are the dates from 83 to 35,000 in here. There's also note over here. It says Azolla Azolla is a reworked plant remain that outcrops normally in marine isotope stage nine and 11 sequences so this is reworking in into the into these cold climate marine sequences showing that somewhere over here are exposed middle Pleistocene sediments. And we've got Holocene material on the top there. The cause that I've been talking about have been correlated with the brown bank formation or they may perhaps be dog a bank formation. This is the is a sea level curve for the last 120,000 years, and the isotope stages here. This is the outcrop of our sediments in this box here. These are the dates for those sediments. So they're occurring in as I say mainly an isotope stage three and going into isotope stage two. If those dates are correct. Then those deposits should be down here. So this suggests that at least in the valley mouth, we might be looking at some quite considerable uplift during the late Pleistocene early Holocene or some of these sediment sequences. Moving in and up the valley. We're now the last sequences I showed you are here we're now going into the outer valley. We have a series of cause running up to 31 a here where we have an outer estrange fascis forums and ostracods in here outer estrange going to brackish and returning to outer estrange suggesting perhaps some sort of marine temporary regression in the middle of this call here. But as we move up to 51 and 31. The marine fascis are replaced by tidal river fascis and freshwater fascis. So we think flooding starts here about 13 and a half thousand years ago. The flooding starts here marine flooding about 9000 years ago or 10,000 years ago sorry. And a similar sorts of dates here so we've got a package in the lower valley of the, the valley flooding by 13,000 years ago possible slight regression in here, we've got a tidal river running in this part of the valley until around about 10,000 years from freshwater to about 9.2,000 years ago so beginning to build up the picture of what's happening in the lower valley. As we move into the inner valley. There's a sudden shift and jump in elevation of the sequences and in the in the fascis so we see brackish mud flats now developing in this part we don't have any dates on this yet. Up to here we've got brackish conditions, starting around about 9,400 years ago in here, sat on top of a nice peach sequence that goes back to about 13 and a half thousand 13,000 years ago. And finally up here 34 this is on what I call the saddle which is up here, which is a sequence of Pete's that runs from about 14,000 years ago to about 9,000 years ago contains some really interesting pollen plus some interesting fish remains from from the base of the sequence here. And this is some sort of perched water table feature high high up relatively high up on the valley sides. So that's just showing that the sequence of all of those long profiles from the mouth over here up to the saddle in here. We've also got a sequence of course from this inner base and this is where the the tsunami core came from here in 01. Interestingly, in this part of the, the, the sequence we've got a lot more salt marsh we don't see much salt marsh told developed in the main part of the valley so so this basins working slightly differently. So going back to my original model here, which we use from Southern England. We can modify that in the red box is really where most of our course come from. And we see the late Pleist seeing gravels we see tidal freshwater river deposits, we see possibly basal Pete deposits in places. Estuarine alluvium and then subtitle flats, we're not seeing anything out towards the edge of the valley here. So, this is one of the areas we need to start looking in the future if we get an opportunity to go back. There are anomalies in this landscape and with the cause core 39 is anomalous. It looks from all intents and purposes as very similar to many of our sequences with freshwater river deposits cold climate forums ostracods rather in the base here going up into brackish marine deposits. The only problem with this core is it's down here. It's considerably lower in elevation than anything else. The dates suggest it's flooding from the freshwater into the brackish around about the same time as the flooding in parts of the inner valley. So, what's going on here is there's some sort of barrier that has has has prevented this flooding at an early date this you know we do we are dealing with tunnel valleys but something must have kept the water out the marine waters out from this. So we need to think about potential barriers in this landscape. So, in conclusion, this is the first time I think that an area in doggiland of a single value has been looked at in detail, mostly previously you know isolated cause have been looked at here we've targeted something in detail and this is unique. The valley systems are complex we've got perched water bog systems river valley estuary coastal embayment, all of which are enticing to mesolithic people. We've identified that there are subtle differences in patterns of sedimentation that occur in these landscapes. We have a lot of problems. Undoubtedly, there are this potential uplift in the valley mouth. We don't understand the valley mouth geomorphology fully yet. We've got issues of localised geomorphology at a scale, commensurate with that of thinking about the archaeology and particularly zoning the areas into the valley into areas of archaeological potentials. And we do have evidence of recycling of older material into younger sediments. The azolar is a very good example of that. What does the future hold. Well, the work we've done is a good start. We now need to look at cross valley profiles and the margins of sequences to see if we can find these more terrestrial deposits that I was talking about that we're missing. We need to better understand the mouth of the valley. It's interesting we've got chalk bedrock here because you know that's going to supply a source of raw material for tooling up for late Pleistocene and early Holocene humans. We need to think about the role of barriers, maybe beach barriers or other forms of barriers may control and may play in controlling patterns of sedimentation. And I also think we need to look at these smaller and potentially tributary barriers in which unique sequences may be preserved. So that's it. Thank you. And again, thank you to all the people who've collaborated with this and sorry if I've mangled your words and your interpretations. Very good. Thank you, Martin. Thank you again for keeping the time. We have one question in the chat box from John Adams. Is there evidence in the plant and tree life of human influence occupation crops, even to which if I may, I will amplify. Do you have any evidence in those calls of anthropogenic influence or even archaeological material? We don't have archaeological material in the cause. We've obviously not sieved everything because in order to genuinely rule that out, we'd have to, you know, sieve the whole core, but certainly in the cutting of the cause we haven't seen anything. In terms of the plants and the pollen, I will defer that question until you've listened to Ben after coffee because Ben's in a far better position to comment on that sort of thing with me. I think one of the things to point out is the majority of these cause are coming from situations where we might not expect to find certainly in situ evidence for human activity. The majority of the cause, you know, coming from intertidal and subtitle sand and mud flats are not going to be the places you'd necessarily expect it to find archaeology. Obviously the 34, which is a terrestrial deposits in what I would define as terrestrial. Again, it's a pretty wet marshy environment. So this is why I think we need to target the valley sides and really see if we can pick up some of these colluvial sequences and paleosols. It did surprise me, we didn't find any paleosols and any truly sort of dry land situations. So I'm not sure whether that answers the question fully or whether it's, but in part that answers your question. We have a comment that was added to the chat here by Ben Geary, who's giving a paper a little later who says that the next paper will touch on evidence for human impact or not. So stay tuned for that. We have one more question time for it from Chantal Connally. Do we know if any British rivers feed into this one, just thinking of the predominant riverine distribution of early metabolic sites and some of the patterns in East Anglia? I think Chantal, in this case, this river is entirely within Doggerland. The headwaters are probably somewhere in the vicinity of the inner basin. We don't quite know how, well I don't quite understand how the river relates to that. The rivers that might enter the coastal embayment to the southwest of where we're working might well drain parts of East Anglia, but not directly into the southern rivers that we've been looking at. It's entirely contained in Doggerland. Okay. Two questions have just been added. I think we can take them. Anthony Firth is asking one of them three questions. They're coming in thick and fast. Trevor Fulton asks about whether Doggerland was covered by an ice dam lake, and do you see lacustrine clay deposits from that? In all the causes we've got, there are no clearly lacustrine deposits. There are sediments that could have formed in the entry points to lakes, but we don't find fine grained lake deposits that are clearly lacustrine. I don't know is the answer to that, but that doesn't mean they're not there. It just means that our cause haven't sampled them. Okay, well that probably leads into the other two questions I've got here. Anthony Firth asks, are there indications of query extensive erosion in your sequences, which might have a bearing on understanding the present of archaeological material? Well, there are cut and fill sequences in the freshwater, sand and gravel sequences, yes. The tops of the peats might be eroded, but again, you know, I would come back to, I don't think we're in the cause of not being taken in the places where we're likely to see that sort of activity in a big way on the edge of, you know, on the dry land wetland interface where you might have expected archaeology to be in the first place and secondly, for it to be subsequently eroded. Okay, that sort of is followed up by this final question. The last one we'll take from Katrina Duel Anderson who says concerning the terrestrial deposits that you want to locate, what are the chances for their preservation in general? Good question, to which I'm not sure. We don't know, they're obviously going to be patchy, they're obviously going to be relatively thin and we haven't targeted any of the previous survey to look for them primarily because we didn't have the high resolution data that we now have. And of course, the coring program was set up earlier in the project. I would be surprised if there aren't places, particularly perhaps in some of these smaller streams feeding into the river valley where we don't get those sorts of situations, but ask me again in five years time if we've got funding and I might be able to answer that.