This week's episode is sponsored by Change. Change is an online mentoring program that teaches people with no experience how to create a real profitable online business and e-commerce. I have been working with Ryan at Change for a few years now and attended many events and got to meet the amazing community of like-minded people. These guys are the best of the best. The support these guys offer is personal, no bots or employees. There's no experience needed but like anything in life it takes time as it's a real business with real results. For more information go check out Ryan on Instagram at RyanGyB and he will guide you through the steps to help build a successful business. You can now follow me on all my social media platforms to find out who my latest guest will be and don't forget to click the subscribe button and the notifications bell so you are notified for when my next podcast goes live. I logged onto this website the first evening that I ever did it obviously I didn't tell anybody and it had no idea what I was doing.  I mean it's not a hundred grand a month but it's near. It's definitely an issue for guys. Modern day guys do not like the fact that your girlfriend could be seen online nude. The biggest hit is with men. Like every time I post a photo with a Polestar only fans it's like a slag. 99% of these perverts are the ones paying. Do you know what I mean? Like why do you think the Americans accept people but yet the UK don't?  So this is I've spoken about this for a while. So I've had I've had three boob jobs. Lit filler. I have had Botox before semi-permanent makeup. Hair extensions. My teeth done. So I charge $150 for 10 minutes. $250 for 20 an hour. $600. I've had people that are like sleeping in the room with the girlfriend on the phone and she's in bed. Vim are on. Today's guest we've got Maddie Fox. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. Good to see you. Thank you. So lost your job in lockdown. Yeah.  Everything. Yeah. Only fans. Yeah pretty much.  Very much so. So before we get into all the madness, I'll go back to the start of my guess.  Okay. So I'm Madison Fox. I'm from Horsham. I'm 30. For me, it started on one of four. I'm the oldest. I've got two brothers and a sister. Family, you know, we weren't rich. We're far from a very poverty stricken. But we lived in like a very middle class area. So most of my childhood was brought up with, you know, my friends going on holiday or, you know, having the best clothes and stuff. And I just, we just didn't really, to be honest.  And really when it started for me properly, was when I came out of a long-term relationship four years ago. And I was a totally different person back then, physically and mentally. And really that's when things started for me. That's how I found myself and developed this. What were you like in your relationship? It was, I was with him since 21 to like 27. So I was learning to become sort of independent. And I've always been opinionated. I've always been, you know, kind of trying to be independent. But he was more of the controlling aspect of trying to tell me what to wear, what I can and cannot say, how I should act. I really was not allowed any type of autonomy over my own life. So it was really hard. And why did you stick it so long then? I think I was just trying to find the willpower to leave, because in a way I thought, maybe this is love, maybe this is what a relationship is, is supposed to be. And deep down, I think I knew it was so wrong on so many levels, even from day one. But I think I was just naive and just felt like I always needed somebody. So just tried to stick it, tried to fix it with material things, buying a house, you know, getting dogs, cars, holidays. And it just never, ever made me happy, never failed. Once your dogs are involved, it's hard to cut away. Exactly it is, really hard. What sort of dogs? So I've got two inch of hours now. They're not as after high maintenance. No, they're not.  So he's an absolute crackpot, man.  Did you leave with the dogs? What's that? Did you leave with the dogs? Yeah, so, well, this time I only had one of them.  So he just said, take the dogs.  No. Or were you kind of the reserved? Or did you always have that in you, but he kind of depressed that? Yeah, I definitely always had it in me, but I was extremely shy, reserved. Always felt like I didn't know how to interact with people, because he really made me feel like kind of a bumbling imbecile. So as if I'm not capable of anything or, you know, like this walking mistake, really. And I knew deep down that actually I am really, really smart. I was smart in him, and I just was never able to have that, you know, just independence of anything. Yeah, well, that's been an appeal, isn't it? Yeah. Just to put you down where you feel as if you need someone. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? So what happened after the relationship?  Or are you still kind of reserved? Still trying to figure it out? So I immediately left after Christmas of 2018, I think it was.  So it was really difficult for a long time. And I think it was just the building blocks, starting to gain confidence of being single, going on dates, meeting people, you know, working on my own, my own money for my own future. Not that I did anything major before, but it was just the start of being on my own, really. What job did you do? So I worked for a technology company in project management.  I just hate it. And again, every day I would walk into the office and I just knew that I couldn't stick this out much longer. And I know it sounds really dramatic, but every day I walked in, I just felt like I had this noose around my neck that was tightening. And I used to just look out the window and think, what the hell can I do to make money to escape this? And I just was grappling with things, trying to develop any idea to get out of that job. Yeah, and then lockdown hit, really. And then you lost your job. Yeah, so on the 18th of March, the previous two weeks to that, they basically took me into a room and said, look, Eva, we can take you to a disciplinary or you can hand in your notice today. And it was totally put me on the spot. I was not expecting it. They just wanted to get rid of me and they used it as an excuse. So it wasn't just me who left then. It ended up being 12 other staff as well. But were you doing that where you get sacked, only fans? It was a big factor. Yeah, I had actually, so the story was that as soon as I bought my house in December 2019, I realized that I only had £100 left over every month. So I literally had no money. And I was just thinking like, what can I do to make money? I need a second job. Thought about a state agency and all these things. And then one day on Instagram, randomly, I saw this advert for a webcam company. And I thought, oh, that sounds interesting. It's to do with online. I'll give it a go. And you know when you sort of hear stories in the newspaper or like Daily Star, webcam, Mudwerns, £150 a year and you're like, yeah, right, whatever. I sort of, I logged onto this website the first evening that I ever did it. Obviously, I didn't tell anybody. And had no idea what I was doing. I literally just clicked go. And in my expectation, I just thought, maybe I'll make £5. There's all £10, you know, I just didn't think anything of it. And after the three hours that I'd been logged on, I looked, I logged off and I looked at the account with how many credits it said it had in it. It said like £400.    Like maybe this is something that I could do to earn money. And so I did it like really ad hoc every day after work. Like didn't tell my mom or anything. And I started an OnlyFans on the side of the coming as well. And stupidly, I did confide in a work colleague about it. And that's obviously then been filtered back to my boss. And then they cornered me about it that day when they were trying to make me hand it my notice and said, we understand that you have a second job online. And I said, well, I don't know what you're talking about, you know, of course, I'm not going to own up to that. But hey, they were complete, they were trash to me. So I just have so many bad feelings towards them. But it worked out really well for me. So I'm thankful in a way actually. So your first time was when you switched the camera on go. What are you doing? Um, so I log on to this website. I've got my own little profile and it just says, you know, I'm available. And you just get calls coming through. So your computer will call and you'll accept it and then your webcam will be on and somebody will be typing in the box. And you kind of just interact with them from that point on whether they decide to have their webcam on or not. Um, and, you know, I was very successful very, very quickly. And yeah, it just changed my life really. Like a Babestation kind of thing. So you're typing back and yeah. So I actually then joined, um, as soon as the day I lost my job, I'd already been headhunted not for Babestation, but their competitor. And I had originally just said, oh no, don't worry about it.  And then on the day I got fired on the 18th of March, I picked up the phone. I was like, I'll do any shift, any day, any time, any hour, every hour, I'll be there. And so it was a Babestation type setup, taking calls, working on TV. And I won an industry award within three months of doing it. Um, and became probably the most successful newcomer. So you've won that support. Then is that it? Then just full steam ahead. So full steam ahead on the coming, working on television frequently, late night, taking calls, doing coming. And to be honest, I didn't really properly do OnlyFans until last year, last April, where I flipped from predominantly doing coming to then just doing OnlyFans. Um, just because of the scalability of it.  It paid off very quickly. So what sort of stuff are you doing then? What's the webcam? Um, so... The people tell you what to do, you get more money. Yeah, so you kind of just ascertain what somebody is into, what people like. But I mean, it's so varied. It's crazy. It can be just sitting there talking. It can be, you know, instructional staff, solo staff, feet staff. Um, I've been asked to do some crazy, crazy stuff. What sort of stuff have you been asked to do? So probably one of the most strangest was a guy who is very well known on the babe channels calling late at night. And he will instruct you on, you know, how to act, how to behave. And the scenario is that he's lying on the bed and that you've got a knife, you pull it off and you drag it down into him and you stab him.  Um, and as you, you know, all of this is being instructed by him.  And as you're pretending to stab him, he's going, like on the other side of the phone.  Do you get to see these people? Sometimes, yeah.  Worst thing I've seen. Oh, it's pretty bad actually. It's, it's actually really to be bad. This is anything goes.   Yeah, it's so creepy.  It's, it's, it's really hard. Actually, that, that particular scenario has been a dilemma that has weighed on my conscience, conscience big time. Um, yeah, really majorly actually.  A lot of people just kind of looking for a little extra stimulant, whether they're waste at work or as a lot of creepy bastards. Um, no, I would say actual creepy stuff is this really, really quite rare. It's very rare. I mean, I've spoken to thousands of people over the last three years and it's very rare. I'm good friends with Pawn Star, called Georgia Lio and she used to do the webcam.  I just stuck his face in it when she was watching. Yeah. Well, that's great actually. Yeah. Because that, well, they had the, the Gara Fiori, she was a dominatrix. She used to shite in like bowls and they used to, these guys used to eat it and just talk away as if it's normal. It's not, a lot of this stuff is not right as well, but he's to her own lesson. They're doing it behind closed doors. They're doing it. Yeah. Everybody's got different sort of fetishes. Yeah. So be it as long as you're not harming kids or animals. Exactly. Or yourself. It's just, it's to her own. You cannot be held accountable for your thought. There's no such thing as a thought crime. So, you know, fantasy can be anything. It doesn't mean that you would ever act that out or ever happen.  I actually am super laid back. I don't judge anybody because it's all human. It's human nature and the curiosity of everything, especially taboo staff. So I just don't judge. There's absolutely no judgement from me. So when you're doing the way of calm stuff, what's the most you've made than an eight? Oh, I made so many to tonight from coming. Two and a half grand.  Very decent. Life changing. When did your mum find out? My mum found out after I was leaving my dogs with her to go home. And I'd be like, oh, I'm just going shopping and mum. And one day I just thought, I'm making so much money. I've got to tell her. And it's really funny actually, because Louis through just did a documentary on the website that I was doing it off of like a week before. I mean, my parents have watched it. And I said, mum, I've got to tell you something. This is what I've been doing. And she kind of was just very silent, very reserved. And said, oh, yes, I did think you might be doing something like that. I don't know what that means when that's like a sliding or anything. But no, I mean, I think once you tell people, you know, what you're making, I think it changes people's opinions of it really. What sort of figure you're making? Can you say? What a month now. I mean, it's not a hundred grand a month, but it's near that way. No way. Is that? Yeah, it is. How many people have you got on your own, the fans? I got over 2,000 subscribers. For all your fans? Yeah, a lot of them. Because I, so my particular look is called Dolification, Bimbofication. It's a specific fetish with looking like a walking, talking doll, Barbie, basically. And people. People. Yeah, surprising. I know. Yeah, no. Not really. People, like you look at the Kingdom of Amland, or something like that. Back in the day, they did a big test. Yeah, it's always always been in fashion. But yeah, that's my fetish. That is my thing. What do people talk to you like, though? What, when they first meet me or when they're on cam? On cam. To be honest, I have to say that every guy I ever speak to on cam or on OnlyFans or anything is incredibly chivalrous, charming, polite. Like, I have never really had any problems with any of them, really, at all. What sort of things do you do on OnlyFans? So, mainly I do solo content. I have done some boy girl stuff, but not too much in that. But why not? Because I'm single and I think if I really jumped in, which I would do, I absolutely would love to do it, like, full on. But it would be a huge no-no for so many guys. It would hinder my ability to have a meaningful relationship a lot. And you feel as if you struggle to have one, no, because of what you do? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I struggled before, but it's definitely an issue for guys, modern day guys do not like the fact that your girlfriend could be seen online nude. No, they hate it. Yeah, I'm honest, I would be the same. Like, I don't know if, like I say, I think majority of men are quite controlling, but you've got to be honest. Like, it would be fine for three months, a couple of months, and then the jealousy would kick in. Yeah. I've seen my birds of tits, people, do you know what I mean? Like, you get somebody who will embrace you, accept it for who it is. Like, I think it's just become the norm now.  Like, it's not as bad as it was 10, 20 years ago. Yeah. I think it's just becoming so normalized.  Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm no doubt you'll meet somebody, but seeing you, is that then always at the back of your mind that you don't want to go full in? Because I know porn stars that say they'll do it for a year, three years, make some money. 15 years later, they're still doing it. Yeah. Do you think you can become damaged while doing it as well? If you win, fully 100% worth that? Yeah. That's a good question. Do you become damaged from doing it? No, no, I don't think you do, actually, because I think it's my experience in this industry is that I have had better experiences through people paying than in my personal life with people, you know, meeting me and treating me for free. I literally get treated like trash. So no, I think with the element of the industry and what we do, there's honesty and people up front about intentions, what it is for, what they want to do it for, or like those kind of things. So no, I mean, the way I see it is it's only been empowering for me and a positive experience. But again, everyone's story is different. It could be damaging if you're in a different state of mind.  Who cares, doesn't it? Do you know what I mean? But when is that enough enough as well? What with regards to money? Yeah. Yeah, and actually, it's funny you say that because I felt like that very recently that it's a constant train, you know? And I'm seeing people online, you know, this is very strange for me because a lot of my friends and colleagues are people in the industry now and the amount of wealth and money that is around I feel like we're constantly in competition with each other. And I don't want to play. Like, I don't want to compete. I don't want to constantly have people flashing cash on Instagram, cars, business class flights and stuff. I just want to just be humble. That's me, personally. But good for those people that, you know, have that's their personal choice to buy those things or show people that they've got those cars. Good for you. But I just tap out of that. But in this generation now, we feel as if materialism feeds success. Like, material things don't mean you're successful. Everything can be on the drip. Like, you watch a car. Anybody can get anything hired or rented out. Like, it's a fake illusion sometimes. So show me there. But then you do what you do and people see you as an object. They'll not see you as a human being. So the longer you do it, the longer you will become damaged. No matter what people say that. I've interviewed enough porn stars and people who've just started OnlyFans. And I can see that their mind doesn't decline. But they're in love in a fantasy world. Well, the real life doesn't really mean anything. Like, you're getting all the gifts and the money and people being sweet to you. But would these people be sweet to you as well? I'm on down the line six weeks down the line if you're actually with them. So you're up in a bubble and it's a good bubble to be in. If somebody's been nice to you, then why not go there? If you're getting paid for it, why not go there? But then where's the fine line between normality and your own world? Yeah. No, I totally agree. And when there's money involved, there's always an element of, you know, sometimes you could be doing something that actually you don't want to do, but you have to because it's money and you need to live and survive and progress. So, yeah, I mean, everyone's got their price right. And there's been times when I've been propositioned, you know, with real serious money to do things that personally I feel is just a little step too far. And if I was in a different state of mind, you know, would I be so strong with willpower and decline these things? I don't know. I can't. It is really difficult. Yeah, you still see a lot of the girls doing only fans still stripping escorting. Yeah. But it's a shame because that's good people and you clearly get your head screwed on as well. You're not daft, but you can't let that leave.   Some dope over there. You know what I mean? It happens, man. Yeah, look, yeah, I know it does. No disrespect to the people who do it. But once you do it, it's not that you sold your soul, but something then declines in your psyche and then it becomes the normal. Don't normalise being abused for money, I believe, because money's an illusion. And I always repeat that stuff. And it is important for people to understand that. You've got your head screwed on, but how long will that last as well? You've got to be careful. What sort of work have you had done? So I've had three boob jobs, lip filler. I have had Botox before, semi-permanent makeup, hair extensions, my teeth done. That's it. Where does it stop? Yeah, where does it stop? Good question. Earlier this year, I did rein myself in because I was getting out of control. I did feel it. And I was booking in to have fox-eye surgery, nose jobs, BBLs, which I might do the BBL, but yeah, again, it's a train that once you're on it, it's hard to get off. Yeah, because you look at my daughter.  Oh, bless her, yeah. Do you know what I mean? No disrespect. That's not how you bring people down, but you see people in their 60s and 70s and they still look great. So that's the only thing. We're living in this society where this has become the norm. It's okay to get it done. Listen, you're still young. You're doing your thing. It looks great. Once you had those 40s and 50s, man, they looked like a washed up tiger. Not me and let me do this proper.  She looks worse, I believe. And it's a shame, but she does. I've got to be honest. I feel like as women, we really are conflicted because growing old gracefully is not seen to be an option for us men, silver fox. People love it, right? I don't care.  They're getting full of Botox and all that, like fillers and cheekbones and that. I think this is a society where I don't know.  How lost we're becoming. Yeah. And look, I see my friends. I see people who I know constantly getting surgery, changing.  Because when I've seen people I know change, I wouldn't say that they've made themselves look more beautiful. I would say they've only merely made themselves look different. Now, I don't know. I can't see myself from the outside in. So I don't know what I would say about myself, but I've had real troubles with my family, with what I have done to myself as well. Very difficult. When are you most confident? When am I most confident? I don't know, it's a good question. I think just every day I try to be, but there's always a niggle of, oh, I need to get this done, this done, because of the competition aspect. But no, a deep down, when I'm thinking about it clearly, I'm like, yeah, do you know what? I am a couch, so I try to. You've got to be confident, folks, especially your job, man. Exactly. Yeah. Where do you go? But how many subscribers are there? Subscribers on all their phones? Yeah. What's that off then? Is it 10,000? Where do you go? Yeah, I've got a personal target in my head of what I want to earn, where I want to go with it. But yeah, it's never enough. It never, ever, ever is enough. Does that not scare you? Yeah, it really scares me. It really, really does, because look, I know where I've come from. I have had nothing before and most of my life. So it's only now that actually, and now I feel myself, I am getting disconnected from reality.  And look, my mum struggles and stuff. So, you know, the way that I feel is I want to do good for me and my future and my family. So I don't know. Yeah, but if you're making top dollar, that's the only thing that can keep you going as well, no matter if it's good or bad you're doing life. I've done a lot of bad stuff back in the day to get money because I thought, I can retire, my whole family can do good. Yeah. Karma came and got me. Now I'm trying to do it in a more productive way where it's more natural and it's harder because it's easier to do bad in my life. But it's just trying to do the right thing and you probably have that target in your mind. It's not a bad thing that you're doing, but you'll have it in your mind. You can retire your mum. You can retire your whatever.  You know how easy it is to be made. That's not, I wouldn't even say it's easy because it must damage something doing that sort of job. Especially do you have the message everybody as well? Yeah, yeah, of course. Absolutely. How many messages are there? You know, everyone's from a different time zone. So, you know, you won't have loads of people online at once. Everyone's doing different things at work. They have to go to work themselves and live a life. So it's not too much. It's okay. But yeah, it's all consuming every time of day. It's on my mind when you work for yourself. You can't really switch off properly. So it's really, really difficult to balance. How is it? People can send you videos, photos or just like, what's that? They can send me videos, photos, voice messages, anything and everything and vice versa. People will take the huff that you've not messaged by. Yeah. Oh, majorly, yeah. I had a situation at Christmas where my grandmother died on Christmas Day actually. Thank you. And I had booked in a week before a video call on the Boxing Day. And I was messaging this person like, I won't be able to make that time. And he was basically just like, I want to refund. It's like, dude, I've literally explained to you, I can't get that to that time, but I can get to you at this time. No, no, you've cancelled on me, blah, blah, blah. And I had a conversation with somebody earlier a few weeks ago before that that said, you need to hold back on how much you do tell people about your personal life. So I didn't tell people that I was going through grief, basically. And then I had to then explain it to this guy. And he was like, well, why didn't you tell me sooner?  You expect me on the day to be like, hi, Gary. Yeah, just letting you know my nan's died. I can't make the video called tomorrow. People are crazy, but look, I am a service and they treat me like that. They don't treat me like a real person sometimes. So it can be frustrating, but actually those types of people are quite rare. So when they do a FaceTime kind of thing, do they pay you? Yes, yeah. Do you go at the highest bidder? Like, how does it work? So I have a flat charge that I do for video calls. How much? So I charge $150 for 10 minutes, $250 for 20 an hour, $600. What happens in an hour? I guess it's just more time to talk, get to know each other, conversate so that the clock isn't ticking. Obviously, 10 minutes goes quite quickly. And then hours much more in-depth. $600 bangers? $600.  Come on, it's worth it.   But to do it, how many calls can you do a day? The calls are difficult. The calls are difficult, because if you're talking to multiple people, you know, one after another, that's why camming is incredibly draining. Because, you know, I've got 50, it could be 50 different conversations in my head and I find it hard to switch off at night because you're like, it's all crazy. Yeah, you're absorbing all that. Yeah, absorbing people's emotions. You're trying to remember everything about each person. How's your mom? How's your dog? How's your job? How did that thing go? So honestly, it's like an encyclopedia of everyone, but I do have this crazy skill that if I've spoken to you three years ago, just from your voice, I'd be able to remember. So seeing you're doing that, when I'm, I can never switch off because I'm constantly thinking, next guest clip to get made up like, if you're making so much money, man, like, how do you sleep?  But would I ever work us? I'm milking these bastards for what I can. That's what I'm thinking. Yeah, it's very hard, minimal sleep. I do find it hard to wind down and yeah, it's very, very difficult. It is because my whole life is dedicated to serving other people. And then the only person daily, really, that I see that I see is my mom and she's working. And I literally get zero retention from anybody, you know, legitimately in real life, which is crazy because what is that doing to me? It's basically teaching me unless someone pays. I'm not valued or it's honestly mentally that is a struggle. Do you feel cheap? I think I'll always walk around with a chip on my shoulder that I still feel like, you know, I'm not worthy and I'm not the person that I am today. Definitely. What's different? Part of the big up. Yeah, what's different? And I'm mentally so strong than I was four years ago.  I'm not scared of anybody. I will say boo to a goose and I'm confident in who I am as an individual. I am proud of myself, so, so proud because if someone had told me, you know, I'd be sat here today four years ago and literally would have laughed you out of the room. So. But money does give you confidence because you come at a stage where you don't need anybody but sometimes you've not got anything. You tend to people please a bit more. Yeah.   Do you not mean that? It does grow a bit more confidence but you're working on yourself and getting things done. You probably wanted those stuff done a long time. Do you ever go through any bullying of that when you were younger? Oh, yes.  School was dreadful. Bullying was rife.  What about boyfriends and stuff? No relationships? Like how does people treat you as an object? Like, do they see you? Yeah, it's definitely, yeah, they do treat me like an object. It's badge of honor. Oh, I've dated a babe, station girl and only fans girl. It's badge of honor to say to their mates and yeah, it's free shocking really that people treat people like that. But the stuff that you're doing as well then and you know what men are like then how can you trust a man? I can't. I want it simple answer. I can't. You can't trust, to be honest in life the only person you can trust is yourself and that is why I go by look. I'll trust everyone until you give me a reason not to. I'm not one of these people that's looking on your phone. I'm not that girl. So I have a certain level of confidence with regards to that and trust. But I'll never trust someone 100% no way because look, I've seen how people behave online, you know, behind the closed table. They could have a wife for 20 years and she never knows this secret. It's pretty crazy how people are different online. It's crazy how people are up in it. You just don't know. You genuinely don't know. Yeah, I've no idea. Those fuckers are up to that. Did they tell you they've got partners or waves? Yeah. I've had people that are like sleeping in the room with the girlfriend on the phone and she's in bed. It is crazy what they'll get up to. It's mental. And as well, when you open an OnlyFans, you must expect that your neighbor, your brother's friend, a family member, all these people will go on your OnlyFans to see what is on there. Literally, the number one people you can count to sign up will be anybody that knows you. Old school friends, work, colleagues, anybody and anyone will go on that page. But that's what the fatty shows on that is to... Man, what do you get women following you? I have had a few, yeah, very, very rare. Do you buy anything yourself? I wouldn't have a relationship with a girl but maybe have sex with a girl, maybe.  Look, I don't know. I don't know if that makes me buy. I have never even thought about it. Look, women are hard work. Men are hard work at the best. I would never, ever be in a relationship with a girl. No, not attracted to that. Yeah, why is men and women... Everybody's becoming hard work, and not feel that. Because everybody leads this solo life where everything we do is it's solo. I'm doing this. No one ever considers anybody else anymore. It's all a selfish now, now, now attitude. Empathy is low. Honestly, people's ability to have a conversation and understand one another is at an all-time low. That's why everyone's opinions are so different nowadays. How do you deal with online stuff, trolls? So, TikTok, for me, is the worst for trolls. Why?  Even the smallest detail, right, they've got it. They'll lock it down until you get bored and blue in the face. They'll keep saying it. And even if you admit, please don't say that. That will upset me. It will just only make them say it more. How do you deal with that? I do have days, especially on TikTok lives, which I do very often, where I just can't take anymore. I am strong every day.  Look how I look, right? Do you think I would look this way if I had any element of not being one... You know, I'm not... People assume because I look like this, I want attention and actually it can be further from the truth.  It's not that deep. And because I do look this way and it does get attention, the way that people perceive that is just, oh, they just won't let it lie. What's the one thing that boosts your subscribers? What do you do? How do you keep them coming back? I think just the fact that I am genuine and what you see is what you get, I really build a relationship. You know, some of my subscribers, I've been talking for three years, some of them talk to me more than my actual friends. So, you know, it's building a relationship, really. It's treating people as you want to be treated. And, you know, I receive something from it and hopefully they receive something from it as well. So... What about friends and stuff once they've found you and all the fans that they're not asked of someone I'm thinking?  Obviously, my whole transition was during lockdown. So, most people found out during lockdown and when everything was weird anyway. People were interested. People were surprised, like, oh, wow. It's been positive from what I've heard, but I guess if it was negative, they probably wouldn't say it to my face. But again, once people realise how much money you can earn and the potential, everyone's like, oh, God, I want to know any fans. You know, it's that mentality. What's the most somebody's offered for sex? A lot. Like, hundreds of thousands. Where? Where is this person in London? He's actually very well known. Celebrity? He's... Well, I wouldn't call him a celebrity, but we probably shouldn't talk about that. High up family? I don't know. Just someone with money. Couple hundred bags. Couple hundred grand? Yeah, a lot. Like, we're talking a lot. And I've heard about how much people have received from this person and it's a lot.  Life changing. Bank transfer or cash? If I could have that in cash, yes, please.  So, why did you reject it?  That's when you lose yourself. Because if I don't have autonomy over what I actually do with my physical body, I have nothing left in life. It's done. You're gone. Your head is gone. How much did they offer? Like, 200k? Like, a lot. And that was like minimum of what would have been on offer.  That's it. Get in cash now, then. See? Money talks. Look, this is the crazy thing. Money talks. You can make. If you went out on the street right now and you said, look, I'll give you £1,000 to do this, I guarantee you will have a success rate of 99.9%. It's mad, isn't it? But again, you've got to have, you've got to value yourself. I always tell that to my daughter and that as well. You must value yourself always for a very young age. Don't have a little bit of disrespect. So that's the sense of a power trip as well. You then become a target. Because you're rejecting that. Moro offers more money. But then that could be just your manipulation skills.  Do you know what I mean?  Pay a million in order. Yeah. But do you know what I mean? That because of some people with serious, serious money, everybody's just a pawn in the game. It's true. Money is power. That is clear with everything. And this is the thing. Once you have money, what else do you want in life? It's power, isn't it? Why do people go into politics? Why do people go into business? You know, multi-million-pound businesses. It's power. Yeah, it's power. It's just power traps. That's exactly what it is. Because nothing has any value to them anymore. Absolutely. Because if money is trickling. I've seen it. I see how it sends people into this egotistical thing. And I think that's why I was trying to say earlier with the Instagram posts. People don't understand. And we all do it to each other equally. We're all responsible for what we put online and how the perception is received by people looking at it. It's all for an ego trip.  Look at that handbag she's got on her arm. And I just don't want to play that game because you can't ever win. You can't be the best because a billionaire will sweep in and have 20 Chanel's. You know, and I just, I understand that you can have all the money in the world, but honest to God, it is happiness that matters. It's being at peace and happiness. It's worth so much more than money. How long have you been doing this? Coming up three years. Still fresh on it. Very fresh. Yeah, I feel fresh. It's still a mad industry, isn't it?  It's sex work. That is crazy. I know girls who just do it in their brand pants and they still make a little crust in that. But do you feel as if the more hardcore you become, the more money you make? I know that if I went in tomorrow and did hardcore porn, I'd be at a millionaire as absolutely no doubt, 100%. It just would happen. Honestly, if I did interracial, if I did all these things, I'm telling you, I'd be so minted. I just know it because there's a gap.   Why do men pay it? It's beyond me, why do they get sucked in? Why is that? Porn is free to access online, but that's because the adverts you're watching is paying for you to receive it for free. I think when it comes to Onlyfans, it's much more of a personal service. If you have a favorite celebrity, I don't know, let's say Brad Pitt, and you could talk to him online and get him really to do anything for you and say anything, wouldn't you do it? Again, it's an ego strike to a lot of guys because they want you to, oh, can I meet you? Can I do marry you? Anything really, so. If you've got to do stuff on the camera for them as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, everything. All the time, every day. Yeah. Do you ever get a day off? Yeah, I do. I do take time off now. I'm much better at it now. During lockdown, I was working like 15-hour days I'd be online. And literally, I'm not joking. It was call after call after call after call. I would smash it.   Yeah, all the usual suspects. So dildo, play, anal, star, you know, boobs. That's not a lot of graft, but isn't it? That is a lot of graft, man.  It is a lot of graft, mentally.   And, you know, I'm just really ambitious. I really want to change my life and I am. And I've got a personal goal in mind. I really just want a huge fuck-off house. And then I'll just be able to chill and go on holidays and... You think that at all? Yeah, I know. No, and I understand that that's always the goal. And it just, you're always wanting more. But I definitely feel like I'm just learning that, you know, if you buy Louis Vuitton handbag, right, it's still just a handbag. You've just paid two and a half grand for it. It's just not what you think it is. And you're always wanting more. Like, during 2020, after doing this very early on, I bought a car, like a different car, went from a Fiat 500 to a Jaguar F-Type.  And if someone said to me tomorrow, I'll take your Jaguar for you. Here's your Fiat bag. I'd still be just as happy because it's just a material thing. Yeah, it's not what you're going to find your happiness. As sad as it is, like, because if you've been bullied and if you've not had any money, then you get that things. Once you get it, you don't even really appreciate it as much because you think, is that it? Because in my mind, we see people that are more younger and we think their life must be amazing.  That's not right in the head, man. My experience is the same. I have dated, you know, a guy that was from a very, very wealthy family and I've never seen people so unhappy before.  The people assume that, you know, if I just earn 10 grand a month, I'll be so happy. But once you get to that, you're then like, if I just earn 50, I'll be so happy. The goalposts always move on to something else. Look at Andrew Tate, you know, like, he's got 10 Bugattis in five different colors. Like, why? Because we're always wanting more material objects and it's happiness that we should be chasing and just at peace and like knowing yourself because actually, that's the one thing that I have learned through talking to a lot of people that most people are living a lie. They want to be this character or something that, you know, big, muscly guy or whatever it is and they never ever achieve it for fear of what other people think. And actually, you know, as much people critique me for how I look and I understand that I look very different from most people and it is a very out there thing.  And I've done the mental work. I've had counseling over a vast amount of years. I've done that legwork and I know that I am of sound mind. I know a lot of people won't believe that, but it is true. And yeah, that through reading this particular book that I was reading. What did you read? Happy Sexy Millionaire by Stephen Bartlett.  And they said, it's not living, you know, unapologetically as myself as I wanted to do, you know.  So many people are holding themselves back for fear of being critiqued, what people think.  And I respect people that are just unapologetically themselves. Yeah, but that's why it's so easy to be successful now because everybody's weak. Everybody's scared of other people's opinions.  And the people went, I even put a post out today that people still complain.   Like I say in the airport that no one cares about your departure. Do you know what I mean?  I'm here to create content.  That's why I've worked so hard now but I'm like yourself, Canada though. Canada, I've got a cut off point. I don't know because I'm an addict but I love, I need hustle. I need to go up to something. So it scares me that while I ever stop and should you ever stop?  Do you know what I mean? Like life is too short for me. It's just a big game. Play the game right. Just enjoy it as well as much as you can. But it's difficult. What made you get counseling? My past relationship, it was sending me crazy with my ex. I was with him for six years. You know, he would tell me what I could, can wear, what I could look like and it just sent me so mental. So mental that I had. Now you've returned the favor. Well, this pal's at work, whanking over you and fucking. Do you know what I mean? Look, I know for sure that they've signed up. So. They're the first to sign up. So it is. It's true. The thing about men is it's scary that there's not much loyalty anymore.  But I'm just saying in general that. I don't know, man, that I've got good friends and I've got good family and that, but I don't see much loyalty outside of that. But I've got enough friends. Now I don't want any new ones.  Do you know what I mean? But it's just. Have you ever seen him since your ex? Have you ever heard from him? I have spoken like very briefly, not of anything really on it. Facebook Messenger, but nothing, you know, congratulatory to me. No, I would love to know what he thinks actually be fascinated because I am so, so different. Or at least I think I am. But no, no, never heard from him properly since. Check part of you who you've become there is because of him. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And of my schooling as well. Just being bullied and never, you know, I have severe dyslexia. So throughout school, I was always, you know, boss of the class struggling, you know, through my whole life. I just had this thing that I was just never good enough at work. They would critique me over, you know, doing a spreadsheet in pink rather than blue and all these menial things. And I just never felt good enough. And actually that is one thing that, you know, with this industry, with what we do, it's not exactly one of those things that people pat you on the back for, you know, job well done. And that is what I'm looking for, actually, is just people to be like, yeah, do you know what? You came because my life could have been so different, right? Through lockdown, there honestly was no other jobs. And that is part of the reason why I started doing it. I would do anything just to survive. There's nothing I wouldn't do. With all that, no. I'm talking about working a bit. Donald's here, okay. But yeah, like I'm really, honestly, it was like do or die. And I could have lost my house, my car and literally been sent straight backs in the beginning, like have to move in with my mom again. So I've honestly, I've pulled myself out of poverty. I don't understand. I don't think people understand just how hard that is to do. Yeah, you're making money. That's the thing is that it's either that become homeless or whatever. You found an avenue and you've stuck to it. Listen, it takes courage. It takes guts, especially in this day and age where everybody's got an opinion, do you know what I mean?  We genuinely don't know how it's going to affect humans. In 20, 30 years, I've got a rough idea myself how it's going to go. But then now it's fun. Then now you're making money. And now you're getting all the wee perks that you think you want. But five years of that, 10 years of that, man.  Look, I can't promise anything. But look, if I could earn £1.2 million a year through being a scientist, I would do that. I'm actually really, really smart. And do you know what? That is one thing that surprises people about me because I'm a walking contradiction, right? I look how I look and people immediately underestimate me. But I can literally talk about anything. And I take interest in political things and what's the future of the economy and things like that. And yeah, it's just, it's crazy how people judge me based upon how I look. And actually, that's probably one reason why people continue to subscribe because I'm actually a really good conversationist. I can have a good conversation. You know, I'm not, you're sort of like, how Kamen subscribe and... Yeah, keep it going. Yeah, so I just try and do my best really with every single person. What do you think? If you were playing minister, what things would you change? I would start to tax the wealth of super wealthy, rich people. But they don't, they keep the money. It's the peasants' lot.  Look, it's something's got to change because society is on target to collapse in 2040. There's more going to be more and more and more older people on this planet and not enough younger people to pay the tax. It's simple fact. It's unsustainable how it currently is. So I'm just trying to earn as much money as I can quickly. I don't know how long this OnlyFans thing will last. Is it a trend? Is it a fad?  Like social media does. One thing's in fashion one year and the next it goes. So I don't know how long this is. This is sustainable. Is that what you mean to that? Definitely. That they could just pull the plug on it and then what? Hundred percent. Nothing lasts forever anyway. Look at what OnlyFans did last year. They went to ban any nudity, any adult content. What was that about? Who knows what that was about? It was a bad PR decision. It looks like they were trying to list it on the stock exchange, which is probably why they were setting it up to be like a non-adult platform. Because again, the system is rigged. So the fact that women are earning a lot of money from doing adult content now, the powers that be do not like that. So it's so old fashioned how things work still today.  Creators. Yeah. I don't know how many creators in the UK. I think how many creators are on the platform is something like, not as much as you think, probably like 1.5 million globally, I think it is.  Globally. There's a lot of content, like a million and a half when you think about it. So eight million people on the planet. How many rows are successful though? Not many. That's why when you're on OnlyFans, it tells you what percentage you are on the site. Percent, you're 0.1. 0.1, I don't know what I am actually, 0.15. Who's the biggest downloader on it? Biggest downloader on the platform, celebrities. Celebrities are, because you know, if you've got, I don't know, 10 million followers and you even make 1% of that, you're laughing. What about Stephen Berstoff? Have you been following that? Who? Stephen Berth. I haven't sold these. Oh, Stephen Berth.  But that's wrong, man. That's so wrong, yeah. Revenge, porn. Look, there's always going to be somebody who's trying to bring you down. It happens to all of us, you know, people trying to rip the content of your site and stuff. How do they do that? So somebody's filming you and you're doing a FaceTime. Can they record that and then put it wherever they want? So do you know what people don't record the video calls? Because obviously you then know who it is.  And that is something that infuriates me because the world is such an unfair place. You know, the law is not there to sort of ensure the security of sex workers.  Do you have stalkers? Stalkers. I have had stalkers. Thank you. Do you have them? I had one guy that actually ended up coming and knocking on my door. And I was like, dude, you need to leave right now. I had one guy do a drive-by. I've had an ex-sex boyfriend stalk me at my house. Yeah, yeah. How do I deal with them? I note it. I mean, there's not much you can do. The police are, as we know, the police. They're not that great. So yeah, what can you do until there's a hand around your neck strangling you? No, no, no. I don't know. I hope they'll be there really.  What was the funniest stuff you've seen?  Do you know what? I've written down like on my phone, all the weirdest things that I've seen or had. It's over there. You have to pass it to me.  Like people are genuinely weird. That makes me question society as well. Well, everybody's got the refest. He's just, I get it. But when people go can go at the same moment.  I think nah.  The world is completely mad. That's the scary thing. Let's find the list of my stories that I wrote down. There's so much on there. Why don't you write all the stories, all your mad stories down? Yeah, of just what people have said to me or like the scenario that they've called in. So I've had somebody, so someone said I have a fetish for toenails. I've had another regular camera who comes on and basically pretends to be somebody from the council.  Like he's the councilman. And a guy called Jack Sparrow comes in and he only talked to me in pirate puns. Anything he said was a pirate pun. A guy who called up before and all he did was kept saying toes. Like and kept saying to me, keep saying toes, toes, toes, toes. What's the one thing that you never thought was possible but it's quite a common fetish? The feet thing I get now. The feet there. Yeah, they hang a lot, but you see that now. I see a lot of girls who post and people send them money to send pictures. You feel that? For me, it's not really for cool. Do you know what I mean? But what's the one thing that you see now that is kind of common and you think? Definitely feet. Definitely feet. Feet is a big one for people, actually, because I think the thing in society with men being big, strong men and women being sort of like subservient creatures that men like to flip it when they serve you. And it's very much about worshipping the woman and all of that. Would you see when they think about these fantasies and bring them to life that it's part of them really that individual that they want to be 24-7 though? Do you know what I mean?  Do you think that's them?  Ain't it mad though?  Having said that, I am actually going to, but no. Yeah, I find it fascinating, actually, because you find out somebody's deepest, darkest secret that nobody else knows. So it's quite fascinating what people are into, what triggers that fetish button for them, because everybody has something, right? I think it's pretty weird that I like looking like a walking, talking sex doll. That is pretty weird. As a bird with big tits and blowing feathers, it's not that weird as well. Do you know what I mean? Somebody wanting to have a wine cover, looking at your feet, it's weird. Do you know what I mean? Like, even though when people distract you through your content, like some of these men on these, imagine something was recording every one of them. They're fucked. Imagine they all get exposed.  Yeah. Do you ever get turned on by it, or has it just become a job? Yeah, I definitely do.  So of course I do, definitely do. If it's something that is a mutual feeling of chemistry and I'm enjoying it as well, then yeah, of course, absolutely. And plus, I like to learn about other people's fetishes and it's fascinating. I really, really enjoy it. What's your fetishes?  I like a guy to be very controlling. Only the bedroom, not outside of that. But yeah, that's really me. But look, I'm very open-minded. So I'm a people pleaser. If you like it, I really like it.  It's really easy if I can get you to fall in love with somebody who'll do it as a please piece, like, ain't nothing.  So I really want a guy in my life that is really into the whole bimbofication, dollification as much as I am.  It is a lot, especially when you're out and about in public. You know, you're going to a restaurant or bar or whatever. So it is a lot. People stare constantly. Eyes are on me. Even if I'm wearing like a huge baggy jumper, I cannot hide. And honestly, people stop, stare point. It's constant, constant, constant tension. And I'm not even looking for it. But you're going to get it even now when I'm on this. You're trying not to look down. It's just as men, it's the natural instinct as well. Because you see something with big feet, you go all the sides, that kind of street. Oh, I think. So you see, I say, I touch walking down, man. And people, like I said, it's natural. You get women looking as well, no doubt. Yeah. Yeah, women look as well. I mean, I remember when I was with my friend on holiday last year and we were getting on this plane. And this woman was in a trance looking at me. Would not break her stare until I was sort of like, hello. And this is the thing, you know, it's kind of the same thing if you have a facial disfigurement or you're disabled or something like that. It's how people stare at you. Like you're not actually really a human being. So that's really hard.  That's going to make you anxious at the best of times for most people. But people really are looking at me. You know, even if I'm covered up in jacket and whatever, it's, it is constant. How do people treat you in that? I would say they think you're an easier target because of what you do. Yeah. I think people instantly look at me and think porn star, definitely. And they have their assumptions because of that.  Would you ever do porn? Yes. Yeah. I would love to do it. I'm going to be honest with you.  You came here with a good intention to try to play it calm and say, you're going to make this and that, but you're going to be doing all that. Absolute fail. Yeah, it's just, because you've already got the dollar signs there, you see what can be done.  Waving you dressed as Jack Sparrow saying, see you later. Where do you go forward for the future then? Like, if you're making dough on that and you're saying you'll do porn, you're saying you'll do all the other stuff. Like, where do you go then? Like, I know you've got a figure in your head, but let's be honest, as soon as we get that figure, that's not enough. I think you've been going so far. Do you think you have America as well? That's what the money is now. Yeah, the money's big. I have, most of my customers are American actually. They love that kinder. Yeah, it's a very American look actually. If you think about it, it's everything is bigger in America. So yeah, it's very American and they love me. I actually have never been to America. So this year, I want to go and kind of try and break America because once you've got that down, you're sorted. So that's definitely on the cards. But in the future, what do I want out of life? I just want to... So at the moment, I have like a little one bed house and I'm just desperate to get like a huge dream house. I've actually dreamt about it since I was seven years old. Because, you know, as I said earlier, my family never had any money. We had to move out of our house in 2008 because of the crash. Parents couldn't pay the mortgage and stuff. So I've always just wanted that dream house. So I've had friends that have had it all. And I just want to say like, look at what I've done. I've done that completely single-handedly, not once has anybody ever given me a penny other than my subscribers. And you know, no one's taught me how to do this. This is a business that is turning over like a lot of money. And not once has anybody really ever told me how to do any of this. So I think that pours a pat on the back. But like I say, it's not the type of job that people are like well done for shoving a dildo in you. Yeah, but you're going to get people like that. My job is to interview people and get an understanding of the person. It's a full-passing judgment.  Like basically, some people agree with it, some people don't. But you get your biggest hit as a women. But every time I post a photo at a porn star, only fans, it's like, slag this and that. 99% of these perverts are the ones paying. Do you know what I mean? Look, why do you think the Americans accept people but yet the UK don't?  So this is, I've spoken about this for a while because the culture of Americans is very supportive of one another, you know, like go, chair, go. And in Britain, we hate anybody that is doing well.  Look at him and his Louis Vuitton. Look at him and his Porsche. We have a mentality of, especially in our main media, of bringing people down that are doing well. It's people seek it out. They want to literally destroy you because it's jealousy. We are so unhappy in this country, so chronically unhappy. And people are vile because of it because it literally comes down to jealousy. Even I've noticed it's not even necessarily about money. People want attention because so many people feel irrelevant like they're nothing in life and they just want attention and notoriety and clout probably because their mums didn't love them and that's not our problem. People need to seek therapy, a lot of people and they just feel like they've amounted to nothing in essence which probably isn't true but is how they perceive themselves. Again, it comes down to who do they want to be. Every business has a mission statement. What do you want to be known for? Who are you? What do you stand for? And this is what we don't teach people, especially children. They're so lost at the moment.  They know they pin side they should be doing more. It's been through UK, it's alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex.   The longer you do it, the harder it is obviously. But the beautiful thing about it, man, you can make the changes, you can make the sacrifices to go and try and do something better.      That's why I always say it's easy to be successful now because everybody's weak. Yeah, I have to say, and it's one of those things that you only change in your life when you've been through something terrible and you're forced to change. That is the only time that people make moves.  They might be very stressed, have kids. Responsibility weighs people down and it is hard to get going and off the ground. But a lot of it I feel actually comes down to working for yourself. You have to have your own business or your own venture or whatever it be or be creative in any way possible because that's the only way. If you just have control over your own earning and how you earn it, there's so much potential. If you limit yourself with renting your body out to your boss for a month for two and a half grand for five days a week for eight hours, eight and a half hours, I mean, you're never going to be what you want to be because they control you.    Don't tell me you're not because you are. You can't go up to him and say what you really believe or what you really want to do. It's all in a politics of working for your office or the company that you work for.   Yeah, everybody's getting shafted at that. When I had Andrew Taylor and I was asking him about what's a good pump and a bad pump, he says, I don't even call myself a pump because the real pumps are the big corporations.  They're the ones.  People are out there trying to survive. I get it, but you can have more. You can go and get more. You don't have to be caught up in something else and make name money, making your business drive. Yes, you've got to put your foot in the door and learn an income and whatever, but you don't have to settle that. And that's the thing about humans. We can make choices. We can make better choices. The majority of people tend to make shitty choices and that's just the environment they're in. That, have you ever thought about quitting because of the pressure from the outside noise? No, because I actually really enjoy what I do. I love speaking to people. I love meeting people. I love the craziness of it, the messiness of it. I love it. I do really enjoy it because it's an insight into the psychology of the public and the inner workings of people. And I just really enjoy it. But what could I quit it for? Yeah, I could quit it for something less money. I could do, but no. I think my plan is that I want to have my own modelling agency and basically take women, men on and manage their only fans and show them how to run a business really and build a brand. And that I feel will give me something back in terms of helping other people. Because I can literally go out tomorrow and scout someone on the street and be like, I can literally make you 10 grand a month. I know I can. I've done it for myself single-handedly. I know the algorithms. I know what works, what doesn't work. And yeah, so I think that's what I'd like to do is help people make money and make money off them making money. What's your daily routine like being an only fans girl? At home, most days, if not all days, making content, filming, going live, Instagram posts, Twitter posts, TikTok posts, Twitch, it's a constant plan. I've not got something to do, no that for you. I have now I have a digital marketing guy that's helping me because we need to work smarter, not harder. So I do now finally, because I realized I can't do it all on my own single-handedly to get to the next step. You do need help, you need advice and expertise. So now I do have somebody helping me. But yeah, every day is the need to go on social media and force myself to perform online and stream and take abuse or criticism. I'm not saying it's SAS training, but it's grueling, it's hard, it's tough to be strong every day, mentally strong. I don't think half the people watching this podcast could put themselves out there like people do if you are a creator. It's very, very difficult. I'm showing my entire body online and that's open to criticism constantly.     I used to think about it and I go, ah, is he serious? Like, what does that mean? I used to think about it.  I just really believe in the freedom of speech even if I disagree with somebody, I think they have the right to have freedom of speech. That is why, actually, Andrew Tate is an interesting character because I don't feel like he should be de-platformed. I don't agree with everything he says, you know, women, that topic is a very difficult topic with Andrew Tate but, you know, I agree with him what he says about the world, how money is, who's in power and how things work. He's 110% accurate and actually it's weird because once you come out of working for a company and the corporate world and you work for yourself, it's literally like an awakening, like a spiritual awakening.  Kids are literally being taught nothing of what they need to know and it is the big corporations that are at fault here. It absolutely is, look at Shell. They're announcing billions and billions of profit and where do they think, who is that coming from? It's coming from you and I, okay? And they're paying no tax, nothing. And yet people who earn well today, you know, if you're earning over, what is it in the UK, 50 grand a year, you pay 40% tax on that and then if you earn even more, you pay even more.  And the problem is not in people earning a lot of money because you will be paying tax on that. It's the people that own assets. And if I was the Prime Minister, you asked me earlier, things have got to change because it cannot carry on how it is today. People can't heat their homes or eat or feed their children or buy school uniform. Most people receiving benefits are in work. It's, we have literally impoverished our whole nation and we're bankrupting our government at the same time. It's unsustainable. As humans, why do you think we're here? That's a really good question. I actually ask myself that every day because I'm really interested to know but you know, why are humans here every day and what is the meaning of life? The meaning of life is just to live and to enjoy. Although not, you won't enjoy life all the time but again, that is the meaning of life. Do you think that humans know we know what happiness is? We know what enjoyment is anymore because we've been so conditioned from birth? No. Do you know what I mean? Like I always say this, there's never a blueprint and manual how we should be living life. Like, should you be doing online fans? Should I be doing podcasts? Should we be trying to build social media forums? I don't think we should be. I genuinely don't feel as if it's about a tribalism. I feel as if you should have your own wee tribe and not a village but grown your own fridge and just family-orientated friends and it's your tribe. Nobody gets in, nobody gets out. It's been there. Like I just feel as if the world's just one big stage. I feel as if it's so messed up and people are so confused and it's not that people are bad, it's just what they know, it's what they've been conditioned to, it's what they've learned, it's just learned behaviours.  That is the capitalist society though. That is what we're born into, to believe that you need to get a job, to buy a house, to get, and you're not even buying a house, you're buying debt to get a house. Like this is what people don't understand. Everything, it's actually crazy how different it is between the haves and the have-nots, right? Because if you don't know someone who owns a supermarket, it doesn't mean that that doesn't exist. Everything is owned that you see, right? So the shops, the land, the house that you're, you know, sits on sometimes if it's not freehold. It's like, there's so many people who are super wealthy. If you don't own your house, somebody has debt that they've lent you to get that house and that is the problem. That's why we're all driven to think that we need to buy things to be happy. Because otherwise, it wouldn't serve the powers that be if we were all spiritual and living off the land and being community-led in tribes, which actually is the meaning of life. It's each other. It's being human. And this is the interesting thing because if we continue on this trajectory of where we're going, if you lose what it is to be human, we're done. That's it. Over. Those are mental health, no? Yeah, it's good. My mental health is good, but I struggle, I struggle every day because I want more meaning to my life. I feel like I do have meaning, but I want to help people. I want to make, I love politics. I love making an impact in a positive way. And because I know where I was like four years ago, I wasn't ambitious, didn't know who I was and just thought, you know, ticking along, you know, not really thinking about life or anything. And life is about, everything we do should add value in the world, right? In a positive way. Otherwise, what's the point of doing it? What, just to earn money? That is not what I want. I want to add value.  I'm not afraid of being wrong and I'm humble and look, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And as long as you learn from it, that's what counts. You talk about politics and you seem to have a passion for it. The longer you do what you do, do you feel as if, if you ever try to get into politics, no, do we take you serious? Absolutely. And that's where the problem comes with the damage that's already been done.  Yeah, and I would, this is actually true. I would love to go into politics. I was looking at it the other day, but who is going to vote for me to be prime minister? It just won't happen, you know? People will just be like, oh, they will not be able to take me seriously. Could you say that, Foxy? Donald Trump, the president, do you know what I mean? But you don't know who's pulling the strings behind that, but if that man become president, I wouldn't never sell yourself short. You just never know. But do you ever, is that a concern? Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And you know, what stories would come out about you and selling stories and all of that. It's like, that's actually what's wrong with this world is even if someone tries to do good through politics, the media will find that they did coke once when they were 14 and then it's like they're you know, done forever. It's like, nobody is perfect. Yes, you make mistakes. It depends on the mistake it is. But yeah, we're too critical of politicians. Yeah, that's life. Maddie, listen, for coming on today, they've been telling your story. I thoroughly enjoyed that.  I wish you all the best for your shoot, Sha. But would you like to finish up on anything? Um, I don't know what I would finish up on, really. Come and subscribe, guys, if you like bimbo vacation. Which are TikTok, which are Instagram, which are only fans. Yeah, so my only fans is Madison Dot Fox, and that's Madison with a double D. But yeah, I have TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, I've got the bunch. Got them all. I know you struggle with mental health yourself, but for anybody that's maybe watching, struggling with their self, what advice would you have for them? Just be yourself. Unapologetically, yourself. Always do what you feel is right for you. Don't worry about other people. Maddie, listen, all the best for the future. Future Prime Minister.  Thank you.