e here about these issues so I and one thing that we discussed as a possibility if we weren't included was well could we have some kind of a citizens initiative that could get going you know that would be advisory just as much as a town committee I don't know I mean that's a possibility but I'm not real optimistic about that possibility so I I wish I could speak for much longer about these issues but one one thing I did want to mention for example is there's a DLTA grant that we we were hoping or I was hoping that the town would be able to apply for by January 11th to get assistance from the Pliny Valley Planning Commission to create a zero waste master plan by the way zero waste is aspirational but if you look at a truck going down the highway with refuse almost all of that is recyclable or should be kept out so it we really could do a lot of things we really could have paid per bag pays you throw which would be a suddenly a dramatic decrease in other towns and municipalities have done this so and of course the organics and so all of these things I have a concern and other members of the committee as well how can we how can those issues be addressed if we're not part of the next committee thank you I believe we have one more comment yes hi my name is Lenore Brick I live on strong street I've been deleting and editing because you know so what's left I appreciate your support I didn't think I'd have to convince the 2019 Town Council Amherst about this that would be horrible but but I do urge you to think big it's it's scary to think big when because your job is so much in the in the weeds in the details but we have to think bigger than existing committees 2050 2035 those those years were thrown out before the last IPCC report and and to understand the great opportunity we have in Amherst as as the young women said here earlier because of our book in plowshares town we know about energy systems we know they need to be updated and and adapted but what some of us don't know is that even if we stop all the emissions that it's not enough and that many scientists don't think carbon neutral is enough that carbon neutrality is not the goal that carbon negative is the goal and to get to carbon negative we need to not just be dealing with energy efficiency and renewables but we need to be taking that carbon out of the atmosphere and sinking it into the land and the water and what do we have in western mass that they don't have an eastern mass in Boston we have more land we have farmers we have educators we are in this unbelievable opportunity you people here in this little town of Amherst we can do something really big we can be a model for the state for the nation and beyond this is like this is it this is the real deal we live in this very unlucky time but we're lucky to be able to do this and you also might not be aware you know we have a strong climate action coalition here but we have a new committee on our climate action coalition which is dedicated to terrestrial mitigation to carbon sequestration to soil regeneration to regenerative agriculture to food systems because photosynthesis is the way that the earth has been doing this for 4.5 billion years until we got in the way and so we have to take ancient systems and update the technology and update our will and forest ecology because trees are the unsung carbon sequestering superheroes of our planet and we can do this we can bring all our resources this team that we've just put together has been working with starting to work with local subject experts we have scientists we have professors we have educators right in our midst they don't have to necessarily be on the climate committee but they of course can counsel they of course can advise but I totally agree with Rudy that that committee has to be has to hit the ground running with expertise so that we're not like you know just catching up to understand the problems so I would like to offer to the committee and to the town council this committee that we have just formed we're in our infancy but we have to grow fast just like you guys are in your infancy and have to grow fast and I think that we can catch up together and use the resources we have in Amherst to do something really great together so thank you one more okay got it thank you madam president I wanted to address address some very particular issues that the council needs to consider in establishing this committee the work of the committee will be overwhelming because of all the initiatives that are already in place the zero energy buildings are going to need to be monitored the problems are going to come to this committee the community choice energy project is a major initiative that is going to be coming before this committee and a lot of the details will have to be worked out there before it comes to the council and the municipal vulnerability planning will also you know these are things that are already going to be happening and I know of there is going to be many other initiatives that will come from the committee it needs to stay focused and I urge the council to have this committee be the vehicle for presenting issues concerning our waste system but to have a citizens committee work out the details so that this committee can remain focused and move as swiftly as possible. Thank you. Let me move forward by attempting to just create a couple of summary remarks. First of all we want to recognize the extensive efforts that have already been made by the town and the expertise that resides here as well as the expertise that resides on this council and in our community. Immersed has made some progress but clearly not enough and we have a long way to go. Things that have been raised specifically about this committee include its membership and I have to say that we've gotten different messages on that but we need to keep in mind how we coordinate how we collaborate and how we include other issues perhaps not mentioned at this point including such as waste management. A second thing was to the idea that we should expand if you will using the last speakers our second last speakers role think big. This is a huge commitment on the part of the council and the town and we want to make sure we get it right and at the same time council members have raised the specificity in the charge and wondered whether or not we need to have the charge be broader but not as specific. At the same time we've had questions raised about the format, the structure is it a committee of the council, is it a standing committee, is it a citizens committee, is it a combination and we've had the issue raised about dollars not just dollars for supporting the committee including staff dollars but also what kind of impact these kinds of initiatives have on individuals who live here in Amherst and do business here in Amherst. I have to say that's a lot and with that I would like to suggest a motion and I'm looking for somebody to make that motion. I'm going to go a little slower and I've already had one council person suggest that in the future I would have a motion sheet and we'll do that. This would be to refer the proposed energy and climate resilience committee charge to the governance organization and legislation committee and ask that they in consultation with the presenters of this draft committee charge review the matter as expeditiously as possible and report on that progress and if possible return to the council on January 28 with a recommendation fraction regarding this matter. So moved. Pat and a second Steve Schreiber. Is there discussion? I'm sorry. Pat made the initial comment. I have them written down for you too. Is there any discussion? Yes. I understand that some issues need to be resolved in finalizing the charge of this committee. But I think it could be done just with the people who devised it and with Alyssa and a few other people because I think it could be done with the other committees we have been forming at least the other standing committees to have it go before the new governance committee. So I'm just thinking that that might be it might be an unnecessary obstacle at this point because I think that we aren't that far from having this charge in shape ready to go for the next meeting. I don't know that we want to set a precedent that this would go to another committee right away so I would agree with Councillor Pan. Andy. I think we have to look at what we expected as the charge for the governance committee because the governance committee is really how we function and our committee structure is integral to how we function and therefore it seems that this is very much the realm of that committee and furthermore given the breadth of the discussion that has happened this evening I think that we would be benefiting by having larger group participating because I know or at least I'm quite confident I don't know because I can never know but I'm quite confident that the people who brought the first draft to us will continue to participate as it goes for the second committee but that is why we created the committee. Dorsey. I appreciate the intent of the motion but I believe that the committee charge of the governance committee doesn't include reviewing committee charges. The issue let me just speak to this okay the issue there's two or three issues here one is around the substance and one of the issues of the substance is one of the reasons why I made them or suggested the motion I did that include that this be done in consultation with you and Evan okay because you really bring the substance if you will but many of the issues that have been raised as I think Andy has just pointed out are really much about our organization and our structure and how we go forward is this a standing committee what does a standing committee mean and so therefore the input of a group that is in fact charged to look at our governance our structure and our legislation is really the only committee I could see would be appropriate. Mandy Jo. The charge of the governance organization and legislation committee includes advising the council on matters of internal rules, governance and organization so the organization part would be standing committees and to review bylaws and resolutions proposed for form content organization sort of for the technical matter now that technically doesn't include in that wording standing committees but there have been a number of technical issues, form issues and all of that that were mentioned tonight about what has been proposed so I guess my thought is as we move forward and we've talked about these committees that we formed that their charges might have to change too and I think there might even be a request for one of the charges to already be amended coming up later tonight but it makes the most sense to me to send a request to form a new subcommittee of the council to the committee that's charged with reviewing internal organization of the council. Steven. So as has been said before we're building the airplane as we're flying it so I think in a more next year we'll move on to a committee first before being presented to the full council I would assume but as was introduced I think when Councillor Dumont presented this you said that this was your first piece of legislation so I think that by that concept alone this is appropriate for referral to that committee as soon as we can act on this anyway as the next council meeting I think that the motion in the spirit of voting on this at the next council meeting. Alyssa. Maybe I volunteered for the wrong committee but I don't did not believe that that committee the governance committee was going to be the one that was going to be looking at our charges because the people on that committee don't have any familiarity with our existing charges and how that might be done and so I'm a little concerned about I understand the substantive part of it in a different reality it might have gone to that committee first from the standpoint of conforming with the other things we haven't created yet but I'm not obviously I can send my edits to anybody I want but I don't understand how I can accomplish a more global impact on the way charges are organized by suggesting it when we haven't yet even used our old charge form so that confusion aside I don't know if that means you want to just say that the people are getting together that it's formally going to them that I'm allowed to go talk to them they're having a posted meeting I presume to do this this is all very new and the governance committee was not talked about in great detail in terms of exactly what it would do and I just I'm not clear the other thing I wanted to ask about completely on a side note in terms of the substance that will be discussed by the original designers is the line along I'm sorry I have so many tabs open I'm not sure where it is anymore but the line that talks about it's in one of the sections that says shall and it says shall assist in educating staff I don't think that belongs there and I think that that's the kind of thing where if staff said I would love if you would come with me to this thing that would be entirely appropriate or to say to the town manager why haven't you let us talk to such and such but having experienced a number of very highly functioning and very poorly functioning as well as mediocre functioning committees when you find people see a thing that says shall and says shall educate town employees they're real eager to go tell town employees what to do and I don't think that was anybody's intention I think it was just a cooperative effort Evan a couple things I do have some concerns I think the intent of the motion would be to refer to committee with the hope that this would be returned to the council for a vote by our next meeting on the 28th that would be three weeks this committee technically hasn't been appointed yet I mean it will today I think but unlike I think the station road bridge situation where it was referred to the finance committee with the expectation that they come back on the 28th we have had a finance committee before and I think that that is a committee that could get up and running very quickly the governance legislation and organization committee I don't think will operate the same way Alyssa I'm going to it's going to take me forever to get used to this first name thing I hate it Alyssa mention thank you that's too loud is it okay all right so I think you know as Alyssa pointed out the discussion of that committee ended with still some feelings of ambiguity and so I think that that committee needs to be appointed meet figure out what it does and how it operates and what its procedures are and how it decides when something is ready to be recommended back to the full council to me that is weeks worth of work if not more of the committee just figuring out how it operates and at what point does the committee say we've done our job and we send it back to the council considering that the majority of the comments from the council sorry Siri the majority of the comments from the council have been substantive and I would assume those would need to be addressed for first because it doesn't make sense to address any form and structure changes until you have all the content down on your page it doesn't seem reasonable to me that we could make the substantive changes to the charge get it to a committee that hasn't even been appointed yet have them meet and send it back to us by the 28th and so if we realistically want to vote on this on the 28th I don't think we can send it to the committee if as a council we are okay with delaying a vote on this until what I assume would be late in February or perhaps March then I think referring it to the committee is okay but I personally don't think that three weeks is a reasonable timeline to make both substantive and structural changes if it has to go to this committee Andy I guess my concern is that if we send it back to the two people who drafted and I appreciate both of your efforts we are essentially creating you as a committee and then we get into this whole question of how did that process take place and for that reason I have some hesitation and I actually think that the governance committee can build the airplane as it's flying it by taking on this very issue because I think it's going to go straight to the substantive discussion and get to the task at hand and may learn about what airplane it needs to construct after it's done the first part of it. Steve. So our discussion tonight is a beta test of how this committee will work and I think it's been very effective so basically five out of the 13 here will be that committee and if that first conversation of this committee is what similar to what happened tonight I think we'll be good to propose member of that committee I think I'm completely confident that we can meet this January 20th deadline minus $48 Dorsey. Well I am most concerned about a precedent which I think is being formed and I think prematurely. I do not think that I would like to have a legislative and governance committee which functions here as a 13 member council like the rules committee in Washington which becomes the boss of what happens nothing happens until it goes through that and so it would be in fact that committee would become the chief executive committee of the council and I don't think we need that structure we're 13 people I think we've been doing a good job of getting along and being reasonable and I had the way to charge well maybe I read it wrong but when I read the charge for the governance committee I thought oh they're going to be concerned with rules and with regulations not with what comes up for a vote or what the form it's going to be before it comes in a vote so that's my concern I do trust this committee at this council at this moment to come together in a very speedy efficient way to bring a good charge to us for our next meeting I'm sure that that would be interesting but I just want to say I think that we've got to watch that we don't in our effort to do that rush into setting a precedent that perhaps we don't want to set Darcy again I also I agree with Dorothy I don't think this should be a precedent that we set up sending matters such as a committee charge to this committee and I'm also concerned that Andy was saying that the committee would be dealing with the substance of the suggested changes because that was also not the intent of this committee Andy do you want to speak to that? I wasn't referring to the substance but I was referring very specifically to how you structure and word things and where I think it may be the analogy is that when you get a bylaw proposal you have to in the end make sure that it is appropriately worded consistent with common practice of structuring bylaw so this is clear and understandable I would hope that this committee focuses on that aspect of it and not what the specific intent is of the proposer but I think we'll be in a very difficult position if we as a council are receiving proposed bylaws and other actions that have wording in them that have not been vetted through just common drafting kind of rules so I have a comment and then Kathy has requested to speak I am concerned with Kevin seeming argument that the draft of the charge should not go through a technical review to a committee that we assigned for technical reviews of items that come to this council I think that sense of bad precedent of avoiding and circumventing an exact structure three weeks ago said we wanted that as Andy said we wanted a group of counselors on this governance committee to review items for technical compliance with other bylaws with our rules of structure and with things like that there have been a number of items that have been brought up tonight as to whether it complies with things like the charter and what item under the charter it's being appointed under things like that our regular charge documents and how we set out the charges none of that that's all technical and there's a number of technical things that I didn't even bring up tonight because I figured it was going to someone that would be dealing with that I think that's a really bad precedent for how we're going to deal with other bylaws that come other resolutions that come other charges that people might want to propose I think we need to send this to that committee prior to it coming back here for a vote whether that means the substantive issues need sent to an ad hoc committee that might include a committee that might include a committee that might include Evan and Darcy and maybe some other counselors and then they send after substantive changes that charge on to that proposed substantive changed on to this governance committee for some technical look at it to make it look like and comply with our regular charge documents maybe that's what we need to do send it to two different committees one in sort of succession substantive review then technical review after the substance has been changed based on our conversations tonight and the goal being that it's still come back on the 28th I don't think there's a necessity that it needs to be delayed if we as counselors are going to if we believe that this is that important that it needs to be done that quickly maybe we as counselors need to find the time in the next three weeks to make those two reviews happen so we can make up a work group that includes the two sponsors thank you and three other counselors but we have that committee which is called the legislation committee Evans on it so we are guaranteed the representative of the committee and I think it's a decision of the whole council and I think that the sponsors put the ball in play but I think that the group that reviews it has to be larger so we are guaranteed representative there all the committee meeting members are honored that we approve it committee members meetings are open to everyone so Darcy would be of course she's not welcome to attend I don't see what the issue is I think we need to trust trust our instincts and to me this is exactly what should be happening that this should be referred the ball has been put to the committee and we have sent to this group that we have created to review these kinds of things I forgot to call back and call on Kathy that's okay sorry Kathy hi I am only partly heard what Steve was saying his voice among others breaks up I think he might have been saying but I was going to say but I don't want to be part of what we call ad hoc but talking about specific places where it's minor wording change to be complied with some format and so far as I can see we don't have a common format yet it keeps evolving but at least so it makes sense to people so is there something rather than just giving up a document that has a lot of content to it to somebody else being part of ad hoc a working group to get changes in before it goes through some formal piece and then my second question was if we have like a specific sentence in it or a place where we think it could be clearer do we send those in as suggested edits or just questions into could we send them to Darcy and Evan just so they separately get people's reading comments on that I'm not sure how we handle it as a process let me first address this and also just sending in specifics thank you Kathy first of all let me go back to the charge as I read it to the motion excuse me the motion and that was to say that it go to this committee and ask that they in consultation with the presenters Evan is already appointed to that committee Darcy would clearly be welcome it's a public meeting because it has to be a public meeting and my concern is that there were some seriously substantive issues about the format of this is it a standing committee is it a citizens committee what is it and if we sit here as a full council on the 28th and that hasn't been more thoroughly vetted by a smaller group of people we will be sitting here trying to resolve some of those kinds of issues and that's what subcommittees are standing committees are for and I'm not looking for more structure than we already have but I am looking for the most judicious use of the council's time and how we try to move things like this forward so in terms of your second question Kathy I would assume that that committee and Darcy and Evan would win all of the possible comments they could get. Someone mentioned going with instinct and my instinct is a little bit different than the way the motion is listed or the way you're presenting it now Lynn it was in collaboration or with the presenters yet we're talking about Darcy being a guest she wouldn't be a guest she's one of the presenters I also think we could Evan is on the committee that we have issues around committee appointments so we don't even know if the committee is going to make it through tonight I hope it does but I think that we could create very quickly an ad hoc committee legislation governance thing so that we can get this done by the 28th I think it's going to pass it seems a little bit wasteful of time to spend this much time on something that can be simplified right now Alyssa? I think the thing that we all have to sit with some level of discomfort over especially me obviously in this case is that the five people who are appointed which haven't even been publicly announced to an extremely short imprecise charge that I frankly never considered committee charges was included in are going to be able to have a more productive conversation than the 13 of us are going to be able to have and so if that committee had been in existence for two years and this came up and we sent it to them then yeah that would be so obvious and so I don't want to mess up a new precedent either but I understand people's level including my own of uneasiness with making it feel like some people are guests of the committee and some people aren't really full participants and what are they going to meet and is that going to actually be a time that these petitioners can actually be there et cetera et cetera so I understand why people are super confused and I guess I'm encouraging us to not worry too much that at this very if it does end up going to this committee that this committee will not sit there and decide oh so shall we follow what Alyssa thinks the committee charge should look like or what Brookline thinks the committee let's just not do that let's just fix this thing so that this thing can be ready and I'm reflecting back something Steve said earlier we can fly this plane this time see how that goes that'll teach us a lot about the process but I would beg that we make sure that when that committee that hasn't formally been announced actually meets for the first time more than 48 hours from now that they be really cautious to include the people who have said they need to be included so that they meet at a time they can be there and then just maybe it'll take one meeting and some email and then it'll be ready for the 28th okay call a question it's a roll call vote because we are in a situation with two councillors not actually in the room so I'll have the town clerk call a roll we want to start with our two remote participants Councillor Shane Councillor Shane if I understand what I'm voting on I'm voting to I just want to repeat what I think I'm voting on I'm voting to include the two authors with a group that will fine tune this wording wise and we all send them our comments that's what I'm voting on I say yes I'm repeating the motion to refer the proposed energy and climate resilience committee charge to the governance organization and legislation committee we could also say in consultation we could also say including with the presenters of this draft charge review the matter as expeditiously as possible and return to the council on January 28, 2019 with a recommendation for action regarding this matter with the amendment to say including them that I vote yes all right the amendment and it's going to say including the presenters of this draft charge Councillor Balmille yes I would yes Councillor D'Angeles no Councillor Dumont no Councillor Grismur yes Councillor Haneke yes Councillor Pam I abstain Councillor Ryan Councillor Schreiber yes Councillor Steinberg yes Councillor Swartz no Councillor Brewer so the vote is eight in favor four opposed one abstention all right moving on the first of which is an action item discussed regarding multiple member bodies and it is to look at the charge for two committees one is the committee for the resident advisory committee do I hear a motion remember we have to have a motion and a second before we can discuss this is a motion to approve the charge for the resident advisory committee I would yes I move that we approve the charge for the resident advisory committee second did you get that the second was to you discussion please Alyssa I would be voting against this charge at this time I do not feel it's at all clear based on how open meeting law works and on how advisory bodies to it's a very long story but based on how open meeting law works I don't see how this committee can function properly without some additional information I wrote a ridiculously long email to the town manager today asking about that and I believe we need some additional legal counsel it does it literally does not make sense with the way open meeting law works if we want it depending on what we want it to do we have a couple of comments one of which actually relates to what Alyssa just said the first one was the one year terms I think the charter might depending on how this is considered whether it's considered a multiple member body or not might require three year staggered terms not one year terms so we would need to figure that out but number two is under the authority it says the charter which is true the charter requires the town manager to have even have any authority to deal with this charge at all because the charter says the town manager is to establish this resident advisory committee do we even have authority Mr. Bockham thank you the reason I put it is because it was a committee that was called for in the charter and says it's an item that was called for in the charter as opposed to an initiative of the town manager it's not okay to bring it to you but if the if the council says this is your committee it advises you you set it up you determine how it gets carried forward I totally would could buy that but in terms of being conservative in my interpretation of the charter my sense was to bring it to the full council thank you Alyssa I'm extremely happy to have the town manager be very conservative on this field because it's really not within our purview to discuss this except we need to figure out how charges work and that was why he generously included this and has done so throughout the last while that there have been town manager appointments that have not necessarily required a charge to be approved by anyone but it's more a matter of does this make sense to everybody and not that it's more of a working together cooperative thing so that we can learn from each other in our charges rather than because we actually literally have any set one of the reasons I would prefer that the town manager not go forward with it as it is without some additional clarification from our town attorney is I want to be able to convince people to be part of it understanding what their role can technically be and I believe that unfortunately the way it is written in the charter puts us in a difficult bind and that is why okay so I actually just want to bring up a comment on behalf of the remote participants they are repeatedly saying some of us are breaking up I think it depends on whether we're close or far away from our mic so if everyone could try to stay close to the mic thank you other comments pat yes I have two things to say if this is a residence advisory committee I'm confused why we would limit it to three people three residents since the community is so complex my other question is the draft it says committee charge I think we need to send this to the legislative committee that's forming because it is poorly written and it's not clear whether we have to move from the charter or not so what we did with the last charge should move forward with this we should move forward in the same way with this one other comments do you want to make your statement as a motion pat yes yeah I'm sorry Steve there's a motion and a second on that's I'm sorry there is a motion and a second so the motion and the second is the charge and let me call that question well the motion could withdraw she can make a motion over that please thank you making a motion to refer the charge to the committee to the on governance and legislation right is there a second second okay any further conversation on that all those in favor yes yes yes okay Councillor Dumont no Councillor DiAngelo yes I'm sorry yes Councillor Hanneke yes Councillor Pam yes Councillor Ross yes Councillor Ryan yes Councillor Schreiber yes Councillor Steinberg yes Councillor Swartz no Councillor Brewer Councillor DiAngelo yes the vote is 11-2 the budget coordinating group again this is a charge do I hear a motion to approve I'll move to approve second Councillor Ross seconded it Schreiber are there comments questions yes Alyssa I'm happy to go ahead and vote on it this one is actually straightforward but could we modify the actual document to make it look like the others that we're inventing as we go along yes so in other words we would approve it but refer it for formatting okay I'm just trying to clarify what Alyssa said are there other comments I can amend my motion to state what you just said okay so that we will approve it with future formatting I'll refer it to the committee on governance for formatting no wait a minute no there's two questions here one is are we going to approve this the second is do we agree that it needs to have some additional formatting so the question is do we feel we can approve it without that formatting change and then have it formatted and brought back as information yes Steve I think a motion that says we will approve with a later refer to the committee on governance for formatting would that serve the trick no you don't like that okay I'm looking at the town clerk and trying to figure out just how far field we've moved I'm sorry I moved away from the mic we're not appointing to this committee tonight then I would suggest we refer yes I think I just get confirmation Kathy would like Kathy to make a comment yes I just I'm fine with referring I just have two comments that I know we're trying to clear up we have two different kinds of committees in the charter one is committees that are subcommittees of the council and others are committees that have council members on them and others on it and it's just when we say it's a standing committee they're different so when we refer to the governance committee maybe we can clarify whether we should say standing committee of the town standing committee of the council or something to differentiate them because they are different in terms of their composition and their role in the town so I'm fine with referring it but those are my two questions about the appointing authority and trying to define what kind of committee it is right and I believe that that's consistent with some other people's concerns okay so are there any other comments on this the motion before us now is to refer this to the governance organization and by law committee yes Mandy Joe the charge as written that we're likely to be referring I believe does not have a number of councillor representatives listed in there because the charge itself leaves it up leaves up the whole membership to the various bodies so I wonder would that if we leave it like that would we then need another action to determine how many representatives do we want to put that number in the charge itself do we want to leave it as a separate action for a later time so in other words as you were saying unlike other committee charges where we've designated the number of councillors this does not designate and do we want that to be in this charge or at least convey that now as we send it for referral well when you appointed two people from the council to us you could just add the number two in this charge that those appointments are not going to go forward tonight right but that look like a decision had been made that one up so somewhere along the line I think I we did say yes so our finance committee charge refers to not more than two on BCG but I don't believe we ever as a council decided whether we wanted non finance committee members and how many onto the budget coordinating group but I believe that's probably why Lynn had potentially suggested finance committee membership for that right committee yes Pat I'm going to say that I'm a Pisces which means I swim in two directions simultaneously I feel like we're setting a precedent here that I'm getting more and more uncomfortable with we have made decisions in the last three meetings about committees and charges and now everything seems to be being referred to the governance committee what we've done previously is to make corrections and discuss whether we want two or seven or nine or 15 or one so I'm a little hesitant to just say let's refer this because we could do that with everything tonight and I'd get home earlier but I don't think that would be a good job I think just to clarify it does seem that there are other issues with this as to whether or not it's a standing committee a standing committee whatever but the issue that was raised was the way that we wrote the finance committee charge it has two people on this committee but we never discussed in relationship to this committee whether or not there should be non-finance committee people on it which we did do when we talked about JCPC Steve did you no so right now based on the finance committee charge there are two people from the finance committee that would be on this is there a desire for any other representation on this I'm not hearing a preference from anybody Mandy Joe I'll speak to it at least since I brought it up I hadn't thought about it much before this committee it's just before tonight and this conversation but I think given what this group is likely to be charged with doing and is what it is charged with in the charter I don't know if there's a need for non-finance committee members to be on it it's a group that coordinates sort of global budgeting guidelines which is what our finance committee is charged in terms of budget that's where they're charged so I'm not sure we have a need to have non-finance committee members on it I did think we should at least talk about it though other comments regarding the number of members on the committee being to finance or anyone else any other counselors I mean personally on my knowledge of what this committee deals with it seems like the two finance people would be adequate so I'm we would add that because it is already in one of our charges I guess I guess I need a little bit of clarity I'm trying to interpret what my notes say from the 17th and it looks like we're mostly talking about two and we're mostly talking about just all the things and in fact you were quoted extensively in my notes Miss Hannake but when we say finance committee I think we need to be really specific there are going to be a bunch of finance committee members that aren't town counselors so we're not putting non-town are we putting non-town counselor finance committee members on BCG or are we putting town council finance committee members on BCG that needs to be clear it would be two town council finance committee members okay and that is basically dictated by the finance committee charge we already passed okay so that's not even really an amendment it's just being clear now the question before the committee is do we refer this or do we approve it right now the motion on the table is to approve approve Alyssa I really I do think I'm sympathetic to the idea we're not referring everything but literally the titles are wrong I mean it's just it's just bad format so the formatting just needs to be fixed but the content doesn't need to be fixed there are some slight content things that need to be dealt with in the energy committee this doesn't have any content issue other than making sure it's clear on the two it's just the work the titles are wrong so I'm fine with even saying we approve it but knowing that some governance it might be some editorial pieces to it okay so the motion is on the table to approve is there any further discussion Evan would the motion also have to include that second part would this essentially be a contingent approval no no it would be a regular approval and then just understand that there are edits and in fact there's edits that have to be done on all of our charges even the ones that we've already passed it's format issues it's how do we regularly format everything we do which I know is near and dear to your heart yes Amanda Jones given that I think Evan and I are on this committee so I think we're trying to figure out what you're going to be asking us to do with this after we approve it so is the thing not to necessarily bring back in a week the wording is all good and the goal is at some point we're going to this committee is probably going to come up with a standard format for charges and when that happens this is one that needs to come back is that that is well all of them would be redone are they going to need reapproved at that time no it's a standard formatting it's not changing the intent or anything else in fact we could do it as a consensus vote it has been observed by several people that the formatting of the different charges have been different and we're trying listen I have had a back and forth exchange on this very issue this week and looking at trying to come up with a standard format and in fact our style guide yes yes and along those lines I really think that we can just not I mean I'm very dedicated to saying things like we voted on this on such and such a date and that needs to be recorded on the charge but this is not the kind of revision that changes the content of the vote it's literally headings and this composition appear at the beginning or at the end it is not changing any of the words okay any further questions clarification call the question it has to be a roll call vote counselor ball mill have we amended it to say that it has to it does now say by virtue of it already being in a different charge for the finance committee that it will have two town counselors from the finance committee appointed to this committee from the town finance town council two town counselors from the town finance committee I think so okay we're ready for the call the question the roll call vote captain says yes shalini yes so our two remote people have said yes counselor yes counselor hannacky yes counselor pann yes counselor ross counselor schreiber yes counselor steinberg yes counselor swartz yes counselor brewer counselor dangelis yes counselor duemont yes unanimous okay yes we would like there's been a request for a break five minutes okay our next item is the town manager's report is there a highlight or two that you'd like to share with us thank you madam chair Lynn I know we're hitting the we're almost at 10 o'clock which is your your witching hour we're past that there yes the one major thing I'd like to note is things that had not been in several things that I had in my list to mention were already mentioned one thing I do want to mention is that our own Nancy eddie will be recognized as one of the as the founder of the massachusetts municipal association at the mma annual meeting on january 18th I would encourage us all whoever's going to be there to get to the opening session early which I think starts at 9 30 or 9 45 get there early because it's the most crowded session of the day seating is at a premium that we I'll try to get there early and we can reserve seats at the very front she'll be seated in the front of the room I think it'd be great for her to have a contingent of Amherst folks sitting with her whether I don't know if she's going to speak or anything or if they're just going to recognize her as being the very first president of the mass municipal association which is a really impressive feat and she was featured if you haven't in tonight's packet you have a the beacon which is the actually newsletter from the mma and there's a full page page and a half article about Nancy in there which is really great I had just a heads up in terms of what's coming up at your next meeting on jr. 28th among other the other things that will be coming back to the council will be a presentation on the north common main street parking lot proposal that was last presented to the select board back in September or October this will be presented to you as a first item as a first look for you so we can start the conversation about whether it's something you want to start to pursue or not and that's all you have for tonight thank you thank you and your report has some very other interesting highlights we're moving on to a two part thing on appointments the first is the president's appointments to standing committees those committees in fact have been approved they're the finance committee communication outreach and appointments committee and our committee appointments committee and the governance organization and legislation committee the I have included in your packet a memo and it actually names the people to these committees just very quickly finance committee are Andy Steinberg, Kathy Schoen, Lynn Griezmer Pam, Dorothy Pam and Shalini Belmond to the communications outreach and appointments committee is Alissa Brewer, Sarah Schwartz George Ryan, Evan Ross Darcy Dumont and to the governance organization legislation committee although some wish to be adhered for this we have Mandy Johanke Pat D'Angelo George Ryan Evan Ross and Steve Schreiber can I also just say that this was done by my sending out a poll and asking people to express their first second and third choice and some people have expressed that they would like to also be on the committee that has still not been named and described and that would be one of the subjects that are retreat. This particular item does not require any action. I hope you're all happy with your appointments. Moving on. If you're not you'll let me know. Believe me, I know that. Okay. The next item is in fact being removed from the agenda that is the appointment of town council members to multiple member bodies. This became a question mark in some people's minds as to what was the appropriate role for the president of the council and since this is a precedent setting council I decided to ask for a town attorney to review this in relationship to the charter. We have not received their advice yet and it won't act on this until next time. So 8B is not being acted on at this time. Any questions on that? All right. However, the town manager has provided us with a list of people to be confirmed for the board of licensed commissioners and let me just state and Andy or Alyssa you are certainly welcome to add to this discussion. So 8B is the charge for this committee I believe was approved in the past by the select board. Yes. Right. Mr. would you like to speak to the appointments? Yes. So for the board of licensed commissioners according to the charter I am to refer to you the names of people who I desire to appoint as members of the board of licensed commissioners which I've done today. I've also simultaneously as required by the charter filed with the town clerk's office. The five people I've referred to you is Douglas Slaughter, five Dwight circle for a three-year term, Gaston Delaus Reyes, Hamilton Avenue and Marion Walker 106 North Whitney Street for a two-year term, Hallie Hughes of 30 Orchard Street and Robert Paul Musgrave of 20 Rolling Green Drive for one-year term. Two people for a one-year term. The memo from the town manager does describe the process by which these people were applied and were appointed. Is there any question about that? This does require to confirm by the council. If it does not, if we do not confirm, we have 30 days to confirm and if we let that expire, it's automatic. Yes. Move that we confirm the appointments recommended by the town manager. Is there a second? Pat DeAngelis seconded. Any comment? Manager? I actually think we should refer this to our appointments committee since we have an appointments committee that is supposed to review the multi-member body appointments made by the town manager. So I actually moved to refer to the appointments committee. Is there a second? Okay. And further discussion on that? You can ask for it, but if you don't look up, nobody can get it. I know you have thousands of pieces of paper there. I would, much as I'm finding refer a dirty word tonight, I assumed that was where we were going with this because we actually don't know what that process of confirmation looks like. We know what the deadlines are in the charter. We also could quite possibly not act on this at all and just let the clock run out. But the question is under what circumstances might we choose to do that? And so I would think that would be something that the appointments committee that has just moments ago been named would try and figure out and bring back a recommended process not only for these people which maybe we would do faster than normal perhaps, but also for future reference as to a process under what conditions we let the clock run out and under what conditions we move to positively approve or reject. Okay. Yes. So doesn't this particular commission have some urgency because they you know if we delay this too long we don't have a body that can approve the various licenses that are under their purview. I think in this particular circumstance a motion to refer may not be appropriate. Let me ask Paul. Thank you. There is time for it to be referred or to be given to a committee and come back by January 28th. I think the council would need to act by January well should act by January 28th if it wants to take an action. Mandy. So we should not forget that this by law review committee by its charge actually has five members. These are two of them. The other three will be town council committee. We are on sorry. I am looking at the wrong one. Never mind then. Never mind. Just following up. It is true that there is actually in the charter the list about 60 days for a board of license commissioners but in the meantime we still are within that 60 days. We still will be on the 28th of January 28th. We are not holding up anyone who is applying for a license. The town manager has the authority to act on that in the meantime. Thank you for that clarification. In addition to that I am also aware the select board went out of its way to approve as many licenses it could possibly approve before they sunset. We want to thank them for that. So the motion is to refer this to the board of license commissioners to the communications outreach and committee appointments committee and ask they follow up with a recommendation to the town council. There was a second motion and a second. I will second it. Any further conversation? I just one quick question for the town manager and that is are there any applications that are for totally new licenses that will need to be acted upon in the next two weeks? No. Okay. Any other questions? Then call the question. It's a roll call vote. Kathy votes yes. Shalini yes. Councillor Hanneke? Yes. Councillor Pam? Yes. Councillor Ross? Yes. Councillor Ryan? Yes. Councillor Schreiber? Yes. Councillor Steinberg? Yes. Councillor Schwartz? She already... Sarah? Councillor Schwartz. Yes. Councillor Brewer? Yes. Councillor D'Angeles? Yes. Councillor Dumont? Yes. Councillor Grismar? Yes. It's unanimous. Okay. The issue of the resident advisory committee appointments is not going forward tonight. And we haven't accepted the charge anyway. And then the human resource director is the next. And this is our first time to have the town manager come forward with an appointment recommended appointment for a department head. And Mr. Backelman, would you please speak to Evelyn Rivera Riffenberg's appointment? Yes. So tonight you've received in accordance with the charter, I've referred the appointment of Evelyn Rivera Riffenberg as the human resources director. It was simultaneously filed with the town clerk as required. Ms. Rivera Riffenberg is a high quality experienced human resources director. She is currently the director of human resources for the city of Chickpea and an adjunct professor at Bay Path University. She holds a master's degree in communications and information management and is a certified human resources professional. She's chosen based on her qualifications as required. She had her, and the interview process and everything came out. She's a very exceptional candidate replacing a very exceptional current human resources director, Deb Radway. I want to mention that our review process was led by assistant town manager David Zomek and included personnel board member Rebecca Woodland, who is also an associate professor of educational leadership at the University of Fort Worth. D.P.W. superintendent Gilford mooring, public health director Julie Fetterman and Amherst college chief human resources officer Marie Judith Rodriguez. We received 26 applications. The committee offered interviews to six people. They recommended two that I interview to, which I did and I selected Ms. Rivera Riffenberg and she has accepted the offer. Subject or nonaction by the council and background check, etc. Her resume is attached. Her contact information of course is redacted and I think there's enough information in here for the council to either refer or prove or take no action. So let me just say we have three options. One is to act and one way or the other confirm or deny. Another one is to refer to a committee and the third fourth is to ignore it and let the clock run out for 14 days because if we don't take any action it's automatic in 14 days. So do I have a motion? I'll move to confirm. Is there a second? I'll move to approve. Any further conversation? Questions? Dorothy. I have a question. The resume looks very, very interesting. I'm just curious about the number of jobs in like six jobs in 12 years. And what is your question? Well, I guess I think it just, it raises questions that's all. But it may be that each job was better than the one before. I'm not sure. When we explored that that was not concerned to our interview team, our screening committee or to me. There's no commitment to us for how long she will be employed nor a commitment to her to how long she will be employed here as well. So we're not under contract or anything like that. Any further conversation or questions? Yes. So one of the responsibilities of the new committee is to service the committee to review and review employment as department heads. So that's where that charter piece comes in and also that referral piece like we just used for the Board of Licensed Commissioners. However, given that we haven't met yet, we have no idea what the process is going to be and that somebody's name is out there in public for a job. I am without establishing precedent. I am leaning toward going ahead and approving this rather than trying to let the clock run out when we don't have any kind of process for why we might decide to reject or why we might decide to let the clock run out. So given the particular circumstances we're facing, I think it would not be unreasonable to not do the referral and to go ahead and do the approval. Okay. Any other conversation? Yes. Evan. I just wanted to, excuse me, agree with Alyssa. I think that we have a committee to go through this process. And so I think it's, but this is sort of an exceptional circumstance, especially I believe Ms. Radway's last day is January 19. So before the council will meet again. And so I think there's a number of circumstances that warrant us, warrant action tonight. But with sort of the acknowledgement that this is something that we cannot do regularly and that it is because of exceptional circumstances. I have only one correction to your statement. We're meeting tomorrow morning at 9. Yes, right. Is there any other question? Yes, George. Just a question for Mr. Backelman. Do you feel that these are exceptional circumstances and do you feel a need for haste on the part of the council? Every department head is an exceptional person. I've always been uncomfortable with this provision of the charter because when you're hiring someone extending an offer of employment there's a lot of reasons for a lot of times when someone can say no, I've changed my mind their employer to make a counter offer. The quicker we wrap this up, get through all the steps that we need to get through in order to make a confirmed offer of employment, the better off we are. And this is an exceptional person I think that will really serve the town well. Other comments, questions? The motion on the floor is to approve the appointment of Evelyn Rivera Riffenberg to the position of Human Resource Director for the town of Amherst. Call the question. It's a roll call vote. Happy vote shoes. Councillor Balmille. Yes. Councillor Pan. Yes. Councillor Ross. Yes. Councillor Ryan. Yes. Councillor Schreiber. Yes. Councillor Steinberg. Yes. Councillor Swartz. Yes. Councillor Brewer. Yes. Okay. We're moving on to approval of minutes. And we have three sets of minutes, December 3rd, which has been before you. Oh, I'm sorry. I missed one thing. It's council appointments and it's to the bylaw review committee. And although we are not appointing anybody else to that committee at this time, I just want to mention that I have been in touch with all three members of the previous bylaw review committee. And of those, Robert Richie and Bernard Kubiak have agreed to continue to serve. The other members will be appointed once we clarify the appointing authority. Yes. I'm going to move to table this until the next meeting or until the time we are ready to appoint the council members. The minute we appoint members to this committee, the former committee is dissolved and does not exist. And if we appoint these two members at a different time than the three members from the council, we have an appointed a committee that cannot meet because it won't have a quorum of appointments. So I think we should do the two at the same time. Okay. There's a motion to table. Any further conversation? All those in favor? Yes. Councillor Ross? Yes. Councillor Ryan? Yes. Did I hear Councillor Shane? Yes. Yes. Councillor Schreiber? Yes. Councillor Steinberg? Yes. Councillor Swartz? Yes. Councillor Brewer? Yes. Councillor DeAngeles? Yes. Councillor Dumont? Yes. Councillor Griesmer? Yes. Councillor Hanakie? Yes. Councillor Pan? Yes. It's unanimous. Okay. All right. Now we're moving on to approval of minutes. The first set of minutes are December 3rd. Do I have a motion to approve? So moved. A second. Okay. So we have a motion to approve by Schreiber and a second by, no, by Pat DeAngeles. Alyssa? Discussion. I have a format to approve. Okay. What a surprise. What, which is that even if no one's absent, please list Councillors present, Councillors absent, none as opposed to just leaving that off. And it would also be helpful if we listed us by last name alphabetically unless of course we decide to go by first name alphabetically, whatever. I find it very confusing to try and go through a long list of names that has no apparent rhyme or reason to it. So that might be helpful to others, but it would be helpful to have Councillors absent even when there are none. Okay. Anything else? There's a motion on the floor to approve. Do I hear any other questions? Call the question. It's a roll call vote for December 3rd. Yes. Councillor Balmille? Yes. Councillor Shane? Yes. Councillor Ross? Yes. Councillor Schreiber? Yes. Councillor Steinberg? Yes. Councillor Swartz? Yes. Councillor Brewer? No. Councillor DeAngeles? Yes. Councillor Dumont? Abstain. Councillor Grismur? Yes. Councillor Haneke? Yes. And Councillor Pam? Yes. It's 11-3. 11-3. The vote is 11 in favour to abstentions. Yes. Thank you. We're moving on to the minutes for the Saturday December 8th meeting which was at the Amherst-Palm Regional School Library. It was the four towns meeting. We called a meeting because there were going to be more than seven of us. There were going to be seven or more of us there. Do I hear a motion to approve? Motion to approve. I move to approve. I move to approve. I'll second. What is going on? Okay. Any further questions? Thank you. They probably wonder who's broken into town hall at this hour. All right. It's their discussion of these minutes. I want to point out that probably there are only people who should be able to vote on this or the people who were present. So we need a row call vote but we should go by the names of the people that are on here. The others should just formally abstain. Abstain. Thank you. Okay. Call a question. You're allowed to vote even if you're not there? Oh, okay. Thank you. Councillor Shane. I move to approve. Councillor Balmille. Yes. Councillor Ryan. Abstain. Councillor Schreiber. Abstain. Councillor Steinberg. Yes. Councillor Swartz. Abstain. Councillor Brewer. Councillor D'Angeles. Abstain. Councillor Griesmer. Yes. Councillor Haneke. Abstain. Councillor Pam. Yes. Councillor Ross. Yes. Six in favour and seven abstentions. So that doesn't pass. It does pass. Okay. All right. Moving on to the minutes for December 10th. I move to approve. George, thank you. Second. Steve Schreiber. Second. Discussion. I just have one thing. I'm sorry. Darcy. Minutes aren't in the packet. They were on the SharePoint. They should be in the packet though, right? They're in the electronic packet. Okay. Never mind. Was that you throwing rocks? Okay. Is there anything else from? Yes. Yes. She was wondering what you were doing standing out there. Okay. Mandy Joe. Kathy had sent you potential comments for these minutes. I missed them for the December 3rd one. Okay. But for the December 10th one, she indicated that she thought Darcy had recommended the change to the start time from 7 to 6.30. Not you as president. And she wasn't sure who seconded and she figured it wasn't me since I didn't support it. So we might want to make sure we have who moved to change the start time and who seconded it. You moved to it was Darcy that it moved it and it was I. And I very well could have seconded it. I'll let Steve take credit for that great idea. Okay. It's preferred to the government. Okay. Steve seconded it. Are there other changes? Other questions? No. Councillor Shane? Yes. Yes. Councillor Baumeld? Yes. Councillor Schreiber? Yes. Councillor Steinberg? Yes. Councillor Swartz? Yes. Councillor Brewer? Abstain. Yes. Councillor Ross? Yes. Councillor Ryan? It's 11 in favor and two abstentions. Okay. We're moving on to committee reports. Are there any committee reports from the council? Seeing none, we're moving on to public comment. There are some ruffians throwing rocks at the window. We had a small disruption this evening. What's this? Make gauge. District one. I was a member of the charter commission. I want to make three really brief comments that are sort of tips into a much larger conversation. There's several things. The charter, I'm really impressed with how the council starting with the huge amount of work that the staff has done particularly the town manager and all that you've done in the paying attention. I guess I'd like the metaphor of flying a plane while building it. I'd rather think of it as a train, but a little safer. There are some things in the charter though that make your job challenging. I say this not as a critique of the charter or the charter commission, but I know Mandy and I both have lists of things that we wish were a little different. So I'd like to come to the rules and procedures committee and some of the things that you might be aware of so that you develop a group culture and practice that helps ameliorate some of these challenges. To give you only one example, how do you recruit people, good people to really important committees when they won't have a boat? I think there are ways to do it, but I think it's a challenge. There are several things like that and I think it's hard to encourage us all to be having the conversation so that we keep going on such a strong footing. I also am really excited about the energy that's gone. I'm still out of breath from running around in the cold. Anyway, a little adventure. Terrific energy that's gone into thinking about citizen participation and recruiting committees. The charter commission cared a lot about that with the community involvement officer and the resident advisory committee and so on and other things in the charter. I really urge everyone who's working on recruitment to think not just about how do we get diverse people but setting up a kind of infrastructure for outreach so that it's ongoing not just dependent on a few people making a lot of phone calls all the time but creating outreach infrastructure so that we're always finding new people and the incredible talent of the council including a lot of people who haven't been that involved is just an indication of how many great people are out there wanting to get involved. Thank you. Thank you very much, Meg. No other public comment at this time? Okay. We have a couple of meetings coming up the first of which is tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock and then on the January 15th, January 16th and our retreat on February 2nd in addition to that we have a regular council meeting although all of those will be in fact open meetings on January 28th at 6.30. Is there any council comments at this time? Mandy Joe. I just want to do a shout out to both Kathy and Shalini who have made extraordinary efforts to actually attend and be here for this entire meeting and I just saw Shalini pop up a finger so I think she might want to make a comment too. Okay. Shalini? Yeah, I just wanted to say thank you actually to Mandy Joe for being here present to our comments and participating and also shout out to the technology people who made it possible for us to participate and it was fairly smooth. I could hear everything and participate so thank you. I want to just second that and thank the technology people and especially after you went over to that little closet and changed some knobs and all of a sudden we could hear people from miles away. And also Mandy Joe, thank you for managing that. Alyssa? Quickly on a completely different topic. On our agenda which currently is says committee reports under item 10 which I know there weren't any of but taking a page from a former body I was part of it would be a good idea to go ahead and the town manager will know what I'm talking about. Have an attachment that shows that it might happen because otherwise you start to get people who are like well I didn't know you were going to talk about by law review that night. It's like you know what we might talk about it every single night or we might not but you don't clutter up this page you just added as an attachment. I'm adding that to my 17 page script for you Mike. Thank you. It should appear attached to the list of attached to the agenda when it gets published. So they can see that. Thank you for that suggestion. Any other comments? Dorothy? This is to our town manager. Tomorrow morning we come and I assume in this room but I know my granddaughter is very excited about the fact that she thinks she's going to get a snow day tomorrow. I want to know do you have snow days here at town hall and what are the provisions? We do. We'll send out an alert that says the building is closed. It's not like a school was closing though. Generally we're open for business. The meeting will go forward. We hope everybody will get here safely. No. But there's a few shops down the street that might be able to accommodate you. Anything else at this point for comments? Topics not reasonably anticipated. Hearing none. Executive session we're not. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? Steve says yes. And second. All those in favor? Do we need a roll call? No. I want to do the phone. Would you ask the two people if we can adjourn? Is that affirmative? Councillor Shane? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And the rest of us said yes.


With nearly 605 star reviews this firecracker ground chicken is definitely one of my most popular recipes of all time I'm gonna show you how to make it today. We're gonna start out with swerve brown sugar Which is a non-glycemic sugar-free brown sugar substitute. You can use regular dark brown sugar You'll just add about 12 grams of carbs and 50 calories per serving. Then we're gonna add Buffalo sauce. I like Frank's red hot any buffalo sauce will work here and the rice vinegar or any vinegar You got crushed red pepper flakes a little bit of granulated garlic or garlic powder Ground ginger you can use fresh garlic and ginger if you want just you'll whisk them straight into the sauce along with everything else Got a little kosher salt and black pepper. That's it So you want to whisk this sauce together until everything is smooth and then we'll set it aside Nothing fancy here. Then it's time to cook your chicken. I like to use a little bit of chili oil It is a firecracker ground chicken. Let's add a little bit more heat. Why not? You can use olive oil or avocado oil if that's all you have about a half tablespoon to a tablespoon will do I'm using ninety two eight ground chicken here, but I've used everything from 99% lean ground turkey to ground beef. You could even use ground pork whatever you use we want to be sure and leave it alone once it's in the pan and Three to five minutes maybe depending on how hot your pan is Just be sure you let that my hard reaction occur you get that golden brown crust there before you break it apart and fully cook Once your ground chicken is fully cooked. It's time to add the sauce Just pour it straight in and stir everything together You want to leave it alone for maybe 30 to 60 seconds What we're looking for here is for the swerve brown sugar or the dark brown sugar to start to caramelize on the bottom of The pan this should be a dark red rich color once you're there get it off the heat Garnish with some scallions toasted sesame seeds black sesame seeds a little extra chili oil a truly crisp serve with rice or cauliflower rice And you're good to go