Right, I've passed my Dutch 101, so yay! I'm swinging a dead cat overhead, so you can have good mojo. That is a really big Dutch. Just out of camera, just out of camera. I speak German and I wouldn't dare approaching Dutch, you know, you've got stuff here. Well the the flandarian version is softer apparently, but the problem is that I keep getting told you have to pronounce every syllable, and then of course every word has letters that you don't pronounce as well. So, you know, I say, hey, when you tell me these rules, yes, but it's not just about the rules. You can't, you can't win. That's good. I mean, English is a really difficult language to learn in in sort of the realm of world languages. It's got so many damned exceptions and so many weird things about it. Yeah, there's a wonderful poem that has all the different pronunciations of O, U, G, H, and you know, and so when you read it, it's not like this, or like this, or like this, it's like this. It's quite a clever poem. Yeah, that's lovely. I love to see that. Yeah, I'll dig it out. I've got it somewhere, but I haven't got the link in front of me. It's very likely he's did a Google. So, this is the OGM check and call for August 27th, 2020. People are going back to school, sort of. Schools are reopening, sort of. It is a weird moment in time. I'm noticing Ken is indoors, not in his backyard. Very likely for natural causes. Smoke, really smoky out there. Just crazy. So, let's do it. Let's do a brisk round of check-ins. And I'd love today to go into, to do a little bit of barn raising on two topics. One topic is guilds. Like what is a guild? How do we do it? Let's frame up some guilds. Let's put them on discourse. Let's sort of get that kind of shaped. And the second one is, and I'm not sure what to call it, but focus areas. And we've got a call tomorrow. Klaus sort of stimulated a focus conversation. The OGM called tomorrow on soil, soil fertility, the food system, regenerative agriculture, and all that.  And I don't know what to call these, nexi, nexies. And then another one that's clearly an axis. Domains. Domains is probably our best bet. And then another one that feels like a clear nexus right now is education. And we're doing some, we're playing some with Chico Lab with Charles and Lauren on that. So, I'd love to create that as a place where we can gather and hold those conversations in, you know, on our, on our platforms, but probably in discourse as well. So that's kind of what I was hoping we would do when we get to chat. So let's do a rapid round of check-ins and I'll start at the bottom of my screen with Kevin Hank Jay. Hi. So our credit union continues to grow. People are, we're getting customers that we're putting in a quarter of a million dollars because it's easy to bank black with no cost and no risk, but they get loans out to folks that the white banks don't work with. So that's the, that's happening. They're trying to getting, we're getting a big rush from Palm Beach to bring it there. In the way I do these things, I've gotten kind of a model that I'm, we call a, a field guide to transformation and I'm actually being encouraged to make that into a book and I'm doing an hour a day and I'm on day four or five now and it's making sense, but it has to sort of be personal of how I got to this point to think that I have a plan. So that's kind of, kind of, it's, it's a hard thing to think about that exactly. So it feels kind of, but I mean I've got this approach and it's working repeatedly. So I, people say they want to hear about it, so I'm writing it. That's the one we'd love to read, your autobiography or your, your, there's a lot of stuff in there about how I got there. So it's, your focus memoirs. Yeah. Yeah. Memoirs in a field guide. Sounds like a really good. Memoirs in a field guide. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Thanks Kevin. Who was Hank then Jay? And Hank, you're muted. You may be away from the, there we are. Nope, I'm here. Cool. Good morning everybody. Quick check in from me. A little, little, I'm off video today. I am in the middle of packing things up for a move. So my, my, my usual background is in a bit of disarray. So I'm going to be a bit of a lurker today, a lurker slash, you know, personal note taker I think for me. But that's, that's that for me. Awesome. Short home move or long home move? Medium, let's say. It's like, I'm just moving from Providence to Boston. So it's only an hour and I don't have a ton of stuff. But you know, it's just like logistics given everything going on. Thank you. So Jay Charles Scott. Morning everybody. Two things. Number one, trying to organize dome schooling for my daughter is 11. So putting up a geodesic dome in the neighbor's yard and because ours is too sloped and just having space and distance there. So that's exciting. The second part is I'm putting out a storytelling journal. It's kind of my idea that I've had to spread this in a non-technological way is how do we get people to be able to gather their stories for whatever purposes they're doing them. So I'm in the midst of a, of a launch on that and happy to be here. That is awesome. Thank you. Charles, then Scott, then Doug. Over here it's all about the flow show at the Kiko lab which we launched with some of you on Monday. It's the next three Mondays. Noontime Pacific is the official session time. We have the story room at 2 p.m. Pacific, 11 p.m. Central Europe. The other components emerging are the biz flow, tech flow, play flow, kind of everything's flow in the flow show and kind of just looking through these different lenses definitely with Lauren and the hash bins, the hash verse, just dropping a lot of kind of buzzwords on Kiko lab ontology out there but it's exciting. We're getting some wonderful people. Yeah, between the kind of story and the online, the unlearning pods, whatever we're going to call them next, it's not going to be learning pods. That was a kind of a mini consensus. The Kool laboratory, by the way, is also happening on Sundays with actual real kids, our own and others and but then yeah the big kids get to huddle around the the making of that on Mondays. So that's me. Love that. Feel free to put a bunch of links in the chat so that people can follow you to the invites and to the places and whatever is being built. Yeah, yeah we're getting that together. There's an email newsletter, it's the main thing. So anyone send me their email list, email address for the list. Thanks. Okay, cool. You can put them on the list. Awesome. Scott, Doug, Pete. Good morning everyone from Airlock in Michigan. I don't really have much to share this week because I've been busy with other stuff, which I'm fortunate that work has come in the door after a long dry spell. So two things to share, thank you, that's popped up just now. So I've never heard of Eric Hoffer before and it was interesting that in my little browser that has a little quote of the day and a beautiful picture, it said, someone who thinks the world is always cheating them is right. They are missing that wonderful feeling of trust in someone or something. And it said, oh Eric Hoffer. So I'm going to copy and paste that into the little chat window because I thought that was particularly interesting for our group and it led me down a path where I found another quote from him which seemed even more relevant to us which is, in times of change learners inherit the earth while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. So yes, there you go. And here's the quote. Yes, the the cheating quote for sure and the other one that I just discovered on the learning. I will also paste that in. He's also relevant because he wrote this book The True Believer which is really interesting about basically, we fear chaos in the mob, social movements, etc. fanaticism. Really interesting there as well. And thank you. And just a tiny deviation. He was a stevedor and the root of stevedor is Portuguese and it's an estiva dor along Sherman. That's the people who've loaded up ships and unloaded ships but the roots are Portuguese. Interesting. Well, so his writings were in the 30s and in that point you know as you know what I say history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes and he's talking about how the you know in these times of change the learners will inherit the earth and you know the change never stops changing and I think that that's a flaw in a lot of people's thinking that well when everything settles down this is going to be great. So, all right, that's all. Thanks Scott. And the thesis of the book that Apple's writing is that the change keeps changing and is getting. Flux. Ever changer. Exactly. Doug, Pete, Mark. Okay, I'm back home after the fires which was pretty amazing as you learn to look at every gust of wind for a sign as to what's actually happening. It's kind of like a war zone your senses are really up high so that was pretty amazing. I've been dealing at the end of that with trying to learn how to use Rome which has been kind of fun and interesting. The main thing is I gave a seminar yesterday on Latour's Down to Earth book which I still think is an extraordinary framing why we are where we are and how we can pull apart our political categories to have more relevant divisions among us that we can then fight over. I just highly recommend this book so that that's it for the week. Awesome, I'll put a link to this in the chat. Pete, Mark, Ken. It's been an interesting week. I've had some great side conversations with folks from GM and Keekalab. Talking largely around tools, the free jury's brain guild and wiki nature, so that's been a lot of fun. I also finished up the first phase of the transcription of the sense-making call with Phoebe Tinkall and Dave Stone so it was really cool finishing that and now I'm looking forward to now I've got the kind of the foundation on which I can go back and annotate it and to make it richer so that's that's the fun part. Yeah, I think that's it. Thanks, Pete. And last night I finally got to watch Max's analysis of one of our calls where he took the transcript and then mapped it into Miro as a basically a conversational map with swim lanes for each participant and then had the conversation bounce back with the conversation as post-its in the swim lanes which is super interesting and I would love at some point to do what you're doing, Pete, sort of take a slow close read of an important conversation and see what we all can do with it and I think that's where you're heading, right? It's like, here's an artifact we can play with like that and then let's actually let's play with something in some depth so we can start to see where it takes us. Stephen Kritzer, I think I've got his name right, he's got an interesting take on that where he's done some of that something similar with OGM calls. His focus is not on we actually had an interesting discussion and email a little bit. The thing that that I found, especially with that call, even OGM calls and that call, there's so many ideas that flow through and so much rich stuff that it's like I kind of need to like go back over the recording slow it down and be able to capture it and just have a clean decent transcript of it and then I can actually look at it and absorb some of the thoughts and things like that. So I felt like that was a process of denoising the conversation both kind of in the speech and also temporarily being able to like go back and say okay you know I can I can read this part over and over and over until it makes sense. So Stephen's got a different approach where I think what he does is he listens to the the call and he makes notes about the ideas that are flowing past. He doesn't really care too much who is making the ideas and he captures those into a spreadsheet and then he can take the spreadsheet of ideas and start stop times and produce a automatic kind of supercut of it. You know here's Jerry saying this, here's Tom saying that, here's you know and it kind of flows. The tool setup is kind of jerky right now but it's an interesting take at and also you know grabbing the good stuff out of a conversation. Max and I have also talked a little bit about the idea of real-time transcription which I would be super jazzed to kind of set up so I'm looking at some ways to do that. This sounds like a juicy topic for us. Thank you. Thanks for the exploration. Briefly Kevin and Charles then back to Mark, Ken, Judy. So Kevin, you're muted. You're actually not muted here, we just can't hear you. We still can't really hear you, no. We could hear a stopper. There, now we hear you. Okay, I just want to put out a one vote for the flow as it goes and not putting any sense or order on it afterwards. I really enjoyed the flow and just going with it rather than any sense making afterwards. So that's my vote. I seem to be relatively unique in that perspective but that's okay. I like it the way it happens. I don't think we're talking about changing the nature of the conversations. I think we're talking about what we do, like what happens in post. Yeah, I agree and I understand. I just like it the way it is and not to do that. Okay, cool. Kevin, why is that? I just would like to understand what's the philosophy behind it. You know, when I let it sift down into its own sense making rather than put a frame around it, I get more out of it. So it's your personal, it's kind of your personal process of digestion and sense making. Metabolization and sense making. Within your own experience. Yeah, exactly. It makes sense if I let it do its thing as opposed to put it against a grid. Okay, thank you. A couple people. I don't think well in grids. Go ahead, Charles. Sense making is in the flow of the beholder or something like that. I love it, Charles. So and by the way, Kevin, please come around to the flow show. It's definitely all about the flow. There is some structure but breathing and that's one of the basic rules is keep breathing. But let's see. Just go ahead, Charles. I'll find you a bias for oxygen breathing. Yeah, okay. Well, I thought you were inclusive. Anyway, sorry. Vice versa is also true, Charles, that the flow is in the sense making of the perceiver. Okay, I'm with it. It's cool. Yes, and that's another rule left over from Lauren. So, but I just want to say about editing. I think all of these things involve sort of instant editing as soon as we open our senses. And so, you know, there's no, I think there was a thread a while back in the form about objectivity and but so not to get too philosophical, but flagging what Pete was talking about in reference to Stefan Kreuzer and also Max Harper and and some of us at Kiko Lab around the tools and mapping conversations. That's definitely a part of what we're about in the flow show in the segment around kind of tech flow and map flow and so forth. So, real quickly to Matt, I think I have a sedimentary sense making that works and and other people are more igneous perhaps. Very cool. So, let's go back to our chickens. We have, we got Doug. We got Pete. So, Mark, Ken, Judy. Okay. So, you know, you're probably aware of the fact that in the climate change space there's been a huge ballooning recently of literature from the financial community, the financial risk community, the central banking community. All these people are suddenly talking about climate change and in a way that they really never have before and systemic risk and all sorts of stuff. And I've, this week I've been integrating some of that new literature into the climate web and we go through the documents and pull out key graphics and key ideas and organize the stuff so you can sort of get a sense of what's going on without having to read three dozen new reports, which who does. But what's really struck me is, as I've been doing that, is that even though these people are talking about climate change, they're talking about it still within their silo. And so, you know, Einstein once said that you can't solve a problem with the tools that created the problem in the first place. And yet all of this discussion from the financial community about climate change is talking about how we'll use economic models to figure out what's going to happen and what, you know, what the impacts on monetary policy might be of climate change and, you know, how do we manage all of this stuff? And so it's all just being added as one more risk variable that will manage with the tools that we have as the financial community and the financial risk community. And that, you know, that just so fundamentally misses the point of what climate change is about and what the potential climate change, the potential implications of climate change are from a system's perspective, that at the end of the day, it really, it's almost a bad thing that this is, that suddenly we're spending a lot more time on the financial risk side, but what it's really going to do is just lull us into the idea that, well, we've got that taken care of. And in practice, we won't have it taken care of at all. And so it sort of comes back to the OGM question of how do you break people out of these silos and get them to sort of take a broader perspective to some of these problems? That sounds really important. And we can go back to it later, but I'm really interested in whether Doug sees that happening in his communities, because Doug is a shepherd of economists and among other skills. And I'm just really interested in how that goes, because if they're blind to the causes of the situation that run right back to finance and they're not having that conversation, we are like well and really screwed. Or can we help them wake up that conversation? So in a sentence, yes, I totally agree with that. The economists have a view of the economy of the flow of money for the rich, so it leaves out everybody else. And of course, you can't get a solution of the problems within that narrow confine. You've got to go broader and economists don't know how to do that. And Kevin's work is trying to interrupt that flow so that the water metaphorically flows to other communities and through, etc, etc. So we're back to flow. And Eddie, Ken, Judy, Peter Van. Hello, everybody. Wow. There's already so much to comment on here. We haven't got through the check yet.  I think we need a graphic designer to create that for us. This thing about climate change is very real to me. I've been in California for 30 years and this is the worst fire season I've ever seen. It is August and we've got so much, 350 some odd fires burning in California. We're at what, maybe one degree centigrade over where we've been for the last few thousand years and what's going to happen when we hit two or three. I'm really convinced we're in the pyrosine and that the Anthropocene was very quick. We're now in the pyrosine. Everything is on fire. So I'm very curious of how we can work with that effectively to cool things down. And then, you know, I've been working for the census and I am just stunned by the level of dysfunction in this government organization. We have phone calls. We were having phone calls daily. Now we're told no, we're going to have them only three days a week and they're going to be shorter. And we said, well, what about all of our questions? I'm part of a cohort of 25 field supervisors. And they said, well, basically we can only answer a few questions per day. So we have people in the field asking us questions and we can't get information to answer those questions from our supervisors and they can't get it from theirs. And so it's like someone really is very intentionally, you know, putting a monkey wrench in this thing. Just as one really brief example, there's a report I can access on how performance is going, but it's a custom report. It's inside the iPad. There's no way to get it out. I'm trying to read an iPad, you know, screen like this. And the report is a huge spreadsheet and there's, it doesn't have any columns, labels that lock. So as you scroll, you lose what you're seeing either, you know, rows or columns. And it does say export to CSV. I'm like, great. Can I export that to CSV, send it to you in the internal communication system, then you mail that to me so I can see it on my personal computer, on my Excel spreadsheet. And the answer is no. So they've got stuff locked down. They will not share information, which makes that report basically useless to me. And I have people saying, how am I doing? And it's like, it's a six hour admin task to just go through and figure out what 25 people are doing when it can be done in three minutes. I'm just, my mind is boggled. So you can probably hear a little frustration around this. It's been a big deal for me this week. Anyway, that's some of the stuff going through my mind. I'm also feeling a sense that I'm fighting of missing stuff because I've been so busy, I haven't had a chance to come and be in the flow lab or on discourse or all these other things. And so I have to remember a conversation I had with a mindfulness teacher about 25 years ago about going to different mindfulness retreats. And she said, if you're in the present moment, you're not missing anything. So I try to just be in the present moment and not miss anything. But I am missing some of you guys all the time. Thank you, Ken. That's awesome. Judy, Peter, Neil. And Judy, you're muted. A couple of thoughts. The busyness is in one way exciting, but it's also frustrating because what I find is that everything I start doing has at least five dendrites coming out from it that I want to pursue. And so I like what was said about the flow, but I think we might want to actually keep track of the dendrites from topics in addition to the topic itself because there's a lot of richness in that complexity that would help us figure out how to be useful because at least we see the topic and the complexity and can perhaps find some ways to frame it to make it more attainable to larger audiences of people. I'm also really trying to figure out how to actualize in social movement a lot of the things we're talking about and that's another whole dimension of this that's not like my learning more about it, but how do I get six other people to want to learn about it and then they each get six and so forth. So maybe learning is the wrong word, but I don't mean it in a traditional sense. Engagement, excitement, enthusiasm, creativity because in the complexity of different viewpoints is where a lot of the creativity occurs. Thank you Judy. And the first part of what you said triggered my use of the brain where I have that a lot because it's sort of divergent, but then because I've been using it for a long time I have a bunch of convergence and crystallization, I call it, where something suddenly gets simpler because I realize what the descriptor is that collapses a bunch of things. I create a better collective noun. I create some nexus that simplifies and suddenly it's like I've bridged the the hyphae into and made a little bit more sense out of them and those are exciting moments in the use of the tool over time. So I like that a lot and I haven't had the experience of doing that with other humans in the medium which is part of the goal of ODM. It's like how do I do that with you all? Any of you who are curating spaces like this. So thank you for that. Neil, then Peter Van, how about that? Just one quick comment on that. The dendrites that you were talking about Judy flow and then what you were just talking about there, Jerry, we're talking here about the same process that works for neural pathways. And so the neural pathway is the weaving together of the strands as the signal becomes stronger because the sense making is more recognized and so we have the the plasticity and the neuroplasticity to be able to make these connections. We have multiple perspectives provided we hold the space for those multiple perspectives and we also have the tools to be able to show this was the way I saw it last week. This is the way I see it this week and here's the richer picture that I can make with the pieces that were already in front of me. And if I can weave that into the connection then with where I've been at. I've got a poem to share later by the way that weave some of these things around flow fires and climate grief. So when the time is right I'll drop that in but the I've just come off a call with Michelle Bowens that most of you here will know from Peer to Peer Foundation in which OGM came up as an exemplar. He wants me to help with some visualizations around the Peer to Peer Wiki. And so we were in conversation with Johann Branstad who is the the maker creator of Miro and so we just had an hour and a half conversation with the Miro creator. And so what I'm seeing here is a convergent evolution between what's happening with the online global mind and with the Peer to Peer Wiki and there's multiple other sort of multi-perspectival collaborative type processes around that have information in chunks that are looking for both the how to group but what is the red thread and where does the red thread go at the next level and how do we weave that with other things to make a new pattern and what level of meaning does that hold for whomever is seeing it from whatever level of flow or discernment they're seeing. So I'm seeing some really interesting at this stage loose and fuzzy convergent evolution between the sort of things that need to be done to make these sorts of compendiums more easily comprehensible less what was the word that came up overwhelming to the newcomer you know how do I make sense in this amazing landscape of all these new objects each of which has a depth to it that I can't quite discern and key players in this right now are Jerry and Michelle who are the intuitive fuzzy logic interfaces with the the information that's being curated collated and now is looking to be structured. So I just want to share that I'm in a couple of these conversations and sensing into this but again this issue of the narrative poetry visuals finding different ways of articulating complexity for multiple levels of meaning not to force it into one structure but to allow multiple entry points and multiple lenses to see it and if we can accelerate the rate at which people can see and make sense faster from their own perspectives we'll faster generate new models which can then become new evolutionary testbeds for adaptation given the the challenges we're all under I just wanted to comment because I think there's a nugget maybe in here in the sense that the way we make sense as a collective group right now is we we do the dendrites we come back we conferring to re-sort we pursue one dendrite over another and so on but in trying to reach other people maybe we need to visualize the complexity of a concept with a bunch of things inside the circle so that people own that this is this is interesting because it's complex and there's a way to maybe invite people into the circle that would help us reach a lot more people uh Neil briefly because this is such a juicy topic that we need to actually just focus on it and have time to talk about it properly but go ahead just just very quickly picking up what Judy said yes um and if you imagine this as a tree with flows uh we're bringing global resources down to ground and where they hit the ground become real communities right and then at the same time we're getting feedback from real communities that come back up through the trunk and to me the the the threads the dendrites are the quickening process where we're bringing together multiple strands weaving them together has to be structurally sound but it has to be flexible enough to branch out and absorb more and it has to have roots that can actually draw stuff through and if we can't land this it's not going to be real and so it hasn't to be grounded at the same time we have to be aware of the atmosphere around us I want to add to your image and their aspens or birches because every dendrite goes and grows a new tree so we could have a lot of fun with that exactly along those lines yesterday I was the day before yesterday I was looking for an image of dendrites or hyphae or something like that and I ended up with basically a nice diagram of how mushrooms happen and it's you know mycelia are the the networks of mushroom material in the ground the mushroom is the fruiting body so the mycelia go up create a fruiting body which then creates little endpoints that drop spores for reproduction and the hyphae are the leading edge of the little filaments that go ahead and and do the connections but but in a in an interesting sense the peer-to-peer foundation wiki is a mushroom along this this sort of mycelial network etc etc and you can think of these objects that we think of as a thing that might have a culture that might that might have you know governance mechanisms and all that as mushrooms in this field which is interesting and then second one of the things I really want to do with OGM is to bridge to other organizations I Michelle and I go way back I love his peer-to-peer wiki I have many many links into the peer-to-peer wiki in my brain and would and this project if they're focused on trying to visualize things that are happening in in peer-to-peer wiki that sounds like a really really great thing that we might want to jump into and visualize with other tools do other stuff so if you wouldn't mind building a small bridge so that we can sort of include some people from there in our conversation and then help them do what they're doing that would be fabulous I think they would really consider it being built thank you that'd be phenomenal thank you super and did you did you have anything else you wanted to check in with just that we had a decent rainfall for the first time in about six weeks so I've been able to slowly start to catch up with things because I haven't had to do quite as much hands-on watering around the place just the feeling of aliveness that comes from the garden when they get with nitrogen enriched water into them and so instead of having to go out and check every lunchtime and then water every evening for two hours you know to actually see how things literally just burst into life and just a quick example you know zucchini flowers on on the plant one day zucchini six inches long the next it's like where the hell did that come from it's like it's like a guy blowing those long balloons you know suddenly it appears so yeah it's it's amazing there's a latent desire for life and it's just waiting for the right nutrients of water if you plant any magic beans beware for the giant star tomorrow Peter Van Tony then class yesterday we had the shooting the video shooting of one part of the cybers pirate tv program that we are building that was quite an experience like the cameraman was in los angeles and the production team was in new york and i was in belgium steering and interviewing and penalty to get our messages across uh a learning here i'm always trying in the sort of events whether they're online or offline that i produce is to stretch the speaker to bring their message in a format that they're not used to and usually what happens is that because there is that stretch the speaker those extraordinary things in a positive sense so the the trick that worked yesterday was saying i don't want you to talk over your slides but we are doing exactly the opposite you talk and we will add the images on top of your words and not the other way around uh some other things that are happening i'm experimenting with another form of pirate tv it's around art so i'm going to invite artists in residents in virtual residents to share their studio and sort of things that they have been working on lessons learned the bali thing is still alive uh at this moment i'm kind of pairing up the content experts with an artistic person so like robert pointon i'm pairing him with amber case a given example and so we are at this moment at the stage that we are trying to create two minutes beta versions of pirate tv so we totally have four subjects so four times two is like an eight minutes trailer commercial of what we have in mind with four different artists so that they each give their own way of supporting the content for the rest i'm playing around a lot with i'm following an online course in final cut pro in logic pro lots of music patterns i mean it's amazing what's going on i'm having fun that is awesome thank you peter i really appreciate that uh toning them close and uh i've been uh just uh i'm looking at my personal investment portfolio bonds ain't paying nothing so i'm looking at using several products that involve options to generate income streams that are not dependent upon interest rates is bonds they're going to be paying anything for a long time that's all thank you very much we all need good financial survival strategies claustin matt sorry claustin julian than matt yeah a couple of things from from the food world i think you're everyone is tracking these climate events that are that are hitting us you know one wave after the next but i'm focusing on what does that do to the food supply so iowa has already lost over 50 percent of its annual crop in addition to that it has gotten wiped out a number of silos california is on fire and produces over 50 percent of the u.s uh borders some key crops 80 90 range like tomatoes artichokes broccoli and so on uh the storm right now into the Gulf we'll take out another few million acres of crop land uh in the before just just in time in time before the harvest um you look in the north africa the sudan region they have been devastated by locusts and got lost almost the entire crop for the year so when you look at this in aggregate what's happening across uh across the planet right now we are in for uh future auditions that haven't really been discussed and no one seems to be focusing on um another thing i wanted to share i'm in this forum but 80 members are sold consisting of a number of NGOs it's hosted by the Sierra Club but we have you know the green new deals sunrise movement and uh and you know great generation international organic consumer association and so on but in this group you know it's a grassroots action team so we're trying to put things on the crowns that that actually have an impact and we keep getting stymied because uh you have the animal rights activists you have the vegans and so you have so many different interest interest groups who kept neutralizing each other so the organic consumer association finally volunteered now to to put up a webinar um to focus specifically on vegans and vegetarians uh and and how can you you know frame your mindset about what it is that you think about uh your your neighbor you know who is an omnivore and how can you live in peace and create a joint strategy to move forward and so uh we we did this webinar a couple days ago and we had three uh speakers who don't normally show up in a non-profit unpaid hall to to participate and i would really recommend i'm putting it online here it's a one-hour conversation but you have three deep systems thinkers here who uh in narrative form explain what they see and and how they would recommend for us to embrace a mindset that allows us to collaborate so for you know for anyone interested in the conversation tomorrow around food i would really recommend you listening on this because it will give you a deep insight into the struggles of the food world thank you class that's um that's really rich i appreciate that julian then matt this is different for the last two weeks i've been focused on the annual computer graphics conference called SIGGRAPH and uh one of the things i've noticed is that there's an increased interest in history in this group which is coming up on being 50 years old and then of course my particular bent is what is the backing structure of uh however you store all the knowledge of that history and how the different parts of it relate to each other um SIGGRAPH still has uh today and tomorrow to run so i don't actually have anything to report yet except some interesting ways of visualizing that but not managing it um which which is quite different right in a group where you're trying to have a living way of storing information you need management not just visualization so i would hope to have some some more news next week cool and thanks for reminding me of SIGGRAPH i think i attended one once a really long time ago and and saw a couple things that that came back later i saw one project i think called mandala where i stood in front of a green screen and could play instruments and all that oh yeah later that's quite a while ago jerry indeed himself like 99 or something like that yeah it was ages ago really cool um it's it's sort of like there's a lag period between when you see it in SIGGRAPH when it shows up as microsoft connect or something like that um matt your turn and you're muted i'm starting a broadcast here real quick um you know i've been thinking um i think i've been thinking a lot about structure and how do we get ourselves structured and um you know moving things and i sort of see that there are these three sort of big areas of of structure one is over here um which is this idea of that there are these domains of action and a domain of action is an area and they're probably viewed in from a systems theory standpoint our subsystems right so we have the food system we have an education system we have the money system health system i i wonder about the environment isn't isn't in some ways it's the meta system that we're all living in if we if we think about it and i think about work that we've done across right kevin we're talking a lot about the money system claus you were talking about the food system right on the education system we've been playing with as well so we have to define all of those systems and we don't have to build them all at once but those are the in some ways these domains of change are the consumers uh not consumers because jerry i said that before but they are the benefit the beneficiaries that's probably the right way of saying it it's the beneficiaries of what ogm is right because that's where the rubber meets the road i think it's like when we're talking about um you know on the ground level kind of stuff then i think you have two sort of bodies of um that are serving you know are you know serving those beneficiaries one are these sort of tools and capabilities we've talked about some of them we you're using the brain we're talking about roam we're using discourse you know we're talking about mural uh there's a and it gets kind of hard here this calendaring you know we need like almost like a calendaring system where we all can see what are all of the meetings that are going on and so there are these tools and capability capabilities could also be you know processes or practices it probably not but but they're these are the things that we need to build technically like as human beings have done and built tools and then you have these guilds the blue stuff down at the bottom here these guilds and practices and we're building these too right story threading is one of them we have graphic facilitation you know i talk about facilitation practice there's learning how people learn pirate tv in some ways as a practice or you know so i don't know what the guild or practice system thinking and all of those things if you take if we start building out guilds and practices right we start building out tools and capabilities and we start building out domains of change that the domains of change will actually inform become like in in terms of a design thinking standpoint they are the ones that are informing what we need to do so we're not just building stuff to build stuff we're building stuff with change in mind and maybe i'll just finish by saying each one of these each one of these different things needs this you know kind of organizational this piece here organizational support and management and i saw in this course the fact that we're saying well what are the org structures and those things is it a multi you know multi-celled super organism made up of organizations do we need new legal structures do we need all that kind of stuff to hold to hold and support you know this and each one of these three wedges has kind of its own mission right these domains of change their mission is to grow membership and grow impact you know tools and capabilities are to make make you know the growing of membership and growing of impact easier and more efficient right and the guilds and practices are to create you know shared ways of doing shared ways of thinking that enable all of those things to be done so i'm just starting to play around with this and i think if we can collectively think holistically about all of this but then get ourselves attached to where we have passion so that we can get more momentum and focus against all of these fronts at i think that will be quite beneficial for us so that's my that's my check in that's where that's where my mind is at um if you want to keep the keep the graphic up on the screen for a second i think uh kevin wanted to jump in and i know i want to jump in so kevin go ahead uh you're me yeah hey this is can you hear me yes okay yeah you know the the crossing of domains is really interesting i'm working as i mentioned before with a faith-based economy in a lot of ways and it turns out churches around the country own a lot of farmland that used to be a way to pay preachers to give them some land and so i'm i'm working with folks who want to look at the collective use of that and what we're looking at as a purchasing cooperative which is real easy to do because you don't have to have a lot of complex governance you just can collectively lower your cost of seed and lower your cost of fertilizer and lower your cost of farm equipment and we can figure out other things from there cooperatives often help you share in the abundance and then mutual things help you stop things you don't want so we can look at mutual crop insurance and flood insurance but the easiest thing to do crossing domains for these folks is a purchasing cooperative because it cuts their cost of operation and it doesn't cause the net to change anything so i'm looking for inflection points you know de nello metas inflection points that cross those domains so i really love the graphic matt thanks love this um let me jump in and then and then cost um so a thing that occurs to me matt is that maybe this is a cross-section through a triangular tube yes that's standing in the field and that what's pouring through the tube are projects yes and some of those projects are open source some of those projects are for profit and as the project sort of sort of goes through the tube different guilds participate because they're needed for the project somebody's leading the project and goes oh we need some of you some of you come on over the project touches one or several domains one of my fears is drawing domain boundaries too sharply correct because everything is deeply intertwinkled but the idea that there's a finance money value wealth nexus is awesome uh and you know soil fertility climate earth nexus is awesome and then they choose from the tools depending on what they need to get done and how they want to memorialize their work and share it out and all those kinds of things so so kind of the projects are bouncing down the tube picking up from the different kinds of communities and project and uh and domains and and tools yeah i love this idea of like the project drives right dry you know domains i think the projects have to spin out from creating value right and value not in terms of the classic capitalistic vision of value or um but you know producing change in the world that is of value and that those projects will will consume tools but they also will um or will you know again that word consume well i'll have to i'll have to work that out of my system we'll draw on those tools but it will also inform tool makers to make better tools and i think i think part of this is how do we get people who say i want to be a tool maker and i'm going to be making tools to help those projects because those projects are based on problems that need to be solved in those domains of change and i love the domains of change doing that's and the same thing with the guilds and the practices how do those guilds and practices learn constantly learn going back to you know um you know scott what you you know your quote right become the learning engine of how to do things so that those domains can focus on the problem sets and you know in a greater level of focus right and and i think this is where we can start to build some ownership and then still have this check-in where we're all pre-mortial mixing it together and and then that way you know kevin if your sense making process is very you know you know sit and contemplate then we build tools that help that and right and if someone else's process is about really about analytics and rigor and spreadsheets and then we build tools that support so we build and that was my comment on discourse was not was not about people helping me how to think better but how do we enable everyone's thought process to inform the way that we build tools so that we're enabling every human being to think at their peak peak performance against the problem sets that we need to sell because they're so damn big and i think that's the other thing that i'm learning here is you know mark has been working on climate change for however many years and is frustrated by the lack of progress i'm sure claus you've been working on food for however many years and probably frustrated by the lack of progress we need to we need to almost bring in more people and bring this united in the same way that q non has ignited you know the conspiracy theorists into a powerful force we need to you know bring the intellectual horsepower of of change thinking into the world in a powerful force so i know i'm on my soapbox thank you matt claus so with that matt we are i think in exactly the same position that we found ourselves in this non-profit group in this NGO group right who also listed animal rights vegetarian deacons this environmental concerns pollution from cables and so on so when i look at food it's an umbrella that has to incorporate education and health and environment because it touches on all of those things and if we can communicate that you know if we can to me the way i i have put that into my mind is and i'm also showing that in in in my powerpoint presentations i put food on power with energy oh we know that the energy system needs to be reformed needs to be carbon neutral and all of that but the or the other system is food where we can sequester carbon into the soil to buy ourselves time for the energy systems and in order to do that you know we have to make so many changes that also impact health we need to have the education to under to make people understand what food really is that it is so much more than than what you just eat so so the um the what i'm missing in this in this graphic here is the umbrella function you know that where we have to have a commonality in in where are we going and this is this process of crystallizing that's that's that's that's that's this thing claus and i think i i agree that there needs to be an umbrella system and remember the model that i showed the other day where it used to be a line in a square and then decision-making and execute and then that moved to all of these rays opening up of all this information pouring in and that this thing that instead of being one triangle it was in our one rhombus it was sort of spinning over and so it kind of created we if can you show us what you're pointing to then matt um i um i don't know it's a different graphic i i don't know if i have that document but um it was um um uh it was a graphic that had a line coming in a big circle which was a square rotated or a hexagon located so it went from a bunch of rays coming out it went from this is the normal way that businesses think that people think that we've been all taught to think that you anal you bring in information and you analyze it you sort of work within a framework right that expands within that framework converges within that framework and then you come up with execution and you know this is the kind of model where i say okay i believe that it's only about food is my center framework my mental model is a mental model of food somebody else says no my mental model my mental model is a mental model of you know energy no my mental model is you know is a mental model of of money right and and so so the idea is how do you spin all of these mental models together and work them together and i think you know inter inter hank can share it um but interdisciplinary um interdisciplinary thinking right what part of the problem with academic you know academies right now and i've been talking people and just play the video um is that the interdisciplinary thinking they everyone likes their own discipline right they fall in love with their own mental models right this is what human beings and do and i think what we can close to your point is the food system is a way into the heat to the to the whole system right energy system is a way into the whole system and so this sense making has to be all of those systems and all of the information about those systems coming together but i don't think any one person can can comprehend that and so we need you know we need um you know peter van you know the work that you're doing with creatives and artists to be in here we need the work that we're doing with you know food to be in here with education to be in here and and in some ways we have to ogm is about allowing all of those perspectives to come together and work together right sorry no don't be sorry that's great um and if you can i'm sure so we can see everybody uh neil you moved my mute button i found it matt love that thank you for sharing that because it shows the bit that i could see that was missing and i think claus mentioned was that umbrella sense making just be aware some people can actually make greater sense of greater complexity than others correct and this this is a vertical hierarchy right it's not a hierarchy of control it's a hierarchy of consciousness right and it's not to go to the spiritual but it's to say if i deeply connect with these multiple sources i can see this pattern if you can't see it and you as a designer anybody as a graphic designer anybody as an architect can do these things differently to others others can follow once they can see the artifact that's coming from that and the whole systems design process requires multiple sense making inputs and a vision that shows this is the sort of thing we could create and followers who are prepared to do the nitty gritty down to earthwork and support for those that can do the visionary work who are generally doing it for nothing all the time forever right and so the problem we've got is that the transformative thinkers are not being supported by the people that want to do the work and the people that have the resources to do the work don't necessarily let in the transformative thinkers i think this is where hank was agreeing with me last week on yes i that's my story right so how do we line up this mutually assistive community of different levels of thinking and different ways of seeing in ways that allows those that can provide a vision which is more holistic to weave in the pieces of evidence required to convince those that would otherwise not be able to be entrained in the process because they're still fighting over difference and so the the thing is you've got to find a mechanism for governance of unlike minds not of like minds and that's the story that i've been trying to explore in the big questions thing that i put on i'm not sure if it's discourse discord wherever it's gone i'm on two 15 platforms at the moment but in your in your platform i've tried to explore that but the meta constitutional processes for how we define the rules by which we each agree the rules within which we then decide the priorities within which we then decide how to apply the knowledge is what's lacking because that's the whole systems transformative thinking bit into which all these pieces form but it does require the overarching systems ethical question for what purpose and in what systems context because if we aren't doing what we ought to do then we're screwed so what ought we be teaching in schools what skills ought we be building if we know these things are happening how do we do it in a different way so i i'll pass it to class in a second but i and i don't know how to express this properly i don't i don't believe that there is a curriculum that everybody should learn in schools like the common core makes me crazy i think that like this is what everybody should know how to do doesn't work for me no i didn't mean that but i but i heard a bit of that and and i think other people who really think like we need a lot of structure totally heard that that's like awesome so glad me i'll said that and so what i'm trying to figure out is and and there are many communities that are way further ahead than us on how to fix the world and and part of what i want to do is build bridges to them and what i'm looking for is how can we be useful to all of them so that the best of what they're figuring out kind of absorbs into us and we then modify our structures to improve how we work according to the best of their principles rules artifacts whatever else it might be how do we influence them by helping them create a better memory and share what they what they've discovered better out uh et cetera and how does all of this turn into an ethos a way of seeing a way of being a way of doing and i own the domain cb do because marty speigelman and i years ago we're talking about you know once you see differently you can sort of be differently than you act differently but get getting to that as a kind of congruence it's not a here's the best model of all the models that doesn't work i think either because then what you get into is religious combat and other sorts of things but how do we get this ethos of making progress on the right things together because like you said if we work on the wrong things were screwed but without somehow having a strong solid umbrella that says this is right because that generally leads to combat and i'm not saying this well i'm overstating a lot of it but but that's kind of where that took me so if i can just do a very very quick follow up because i think there was a confusion there the work i was doing in in in australia was with real communities and in looking at how to develop united nations regional center of expertise for education for sustainability for the whole of the murray darling basin the challenge is that the university is a training nurses and doctors to go to the cities they're not training people that are going to actually be able to maintain communities in the midst of climate change and now covert and social and ecological collapse so when i talk what ought we be teaching it's not a one-size-fits-all curriculum it's tailored to system boundaries it's based on how we have made sense of the trends and directions as classes saying about food collapse and various other things and how do we support each other but the fundamental things we want to be learning are system ethics and how we relate not just topics of mathematics or stem or whatever right and there's no point in training more nurses for a city that's collapsed and there's no point in training more lawyers to compete if you've gotten ready to work the land and feed them right and so how do we get to that higher level system ethical whole system intent that's where i'm coming from thank you class julian kevin so this is where this concept leading from the emerging future is coming from so we were the gene scope you know when we were working on the school more project we got invited by the university of king bridge to participate in this future thinking concept and it's very interesting they're actually developed a software to guide this as an exercise so we would have a cycle and then there were moderators who picked certain comments and brought it to the next level but in a nutshell the idea is that we were in 2050 and we defined what the world looks like in 2050 and then we're going to 2020 and we determined what had to take play what took place in 2020 2025 2030 to get us to this 2050 space so we we we have when we have a clear picture of the destination not something like clearly defined or structured or so on but a an idealized version of the future in our minds then our minds will screen phenomena people ideas in a different way so so for example i put on a group of people that just formed a non-profit company which i thought was just amazing how how spot on what they are doing is to the needs of the economy currently and the way i see this is because i have a clear vision of where we need to go with the food system in order to put out to put this thing back together so i think you start into future and then then your thinking today gets gets moved and enlightened towards towards that uh julien kevin matt and julien we can't hear you and julien i don't see you shoot maybe he dropped off um okay uh kevin then matt yeah just really quickly when you think about doing things i love all the creators in the room and no project ever really becomes real and no business becomes real until you have line workers who do the boring work that the creatives hate so it's just you know creatives are good they have marginal utility when you do things they need to be siloed away from the actual you know production line when it's time to do things because they won't want to tweak something that should be a repetitive process so you know the creator's value has has value at a certain point in time and less value at other points in time that's my perspective and in brainstorming what ogm could turn into matt and hamilton and hank and i were we're thinking that there's a really important role we call builders and that builders are people who love to make shit happen and don't necessarily have a particular tool they care about or a domain that that's really hot for them they just want to you know help help propel change by doing what you just said kevin so i think we need to make a a role for that and also one of the things that i was thinking about the diagram that matt shared is as people show up to ogm the a map like that can help them find their way to where they can add their energy that's part of the structure that we need is is like hey i'm new here what you know what's up and where where can i help how can i help and and you know more clarity around domains roles gills tools whatever and projects i think will will give us that my two businesses that went big it turned out that i found myself uh one floor below the main operation at at the southwest and a feng shui person said that's exactly where he needs to be when it turns into scale he just comes up and stirs shit up but he doesn't get in the way awesome that's great matt and charles i didn't know if mark raised his hand as well so or just saw that um one of the things that i'm you know i want to see if we can do as a group and challenge us as a group is to put the right scaffolding in place for the conversations that we're having to not not just get lost you know and you know judy you were talking about the dendrites and making sure we're following those things and and so you know neil well i don't disagree with anything that you were saying and claus i don't disagree with anything you're saying those those conversations that you were having are in the system change kind of place right those are conversations that belong in you know domains of you know changing the way that we think about education or changing the way we think about the food system or changing the way we think about the energy system related to the food system related to the money system like like we need to facilitate those conversations we also need to draw in as jerry was saying drawing all the other people who are also in those conversations because i i i i think critical mass here is really important momentum here is important and you know momentum in the human context is mass times you know velocity right so let's take the lot you know or in the in the physical is physics sense is mass times velocity let's take velocity and mass in the human sense mass has to do with density and the number of people so higher level people in an organization have greater level of density in themselves but if you have you know millions of people you know together that creates its own kind of mass and then you have to get that mass moving in with with feed in a given direction and claus your problem set is that everyone's directions are going like this even though they're in the same room and those vectors aren't aligned and so i think part of the work of these domains is about you know gaining more mass and then getting that mass in a line direction so that they can have real impact on the frictions that exist in our world today there are so many frictions about because we're all used to our own lives we're used to our air conditioning we're used to our you know our buildings are closed whatever it is and and until we get enough momentum against that we're not we're not going to be able to move so i i want i want some people i would love to see some of us say i am intentionally focused on that those those ambitions within that construct and then other people to say okay i'm intensely focused on building things you know building the tools and the capabilities for those people so that they can do their work better and other people are saying well i want to deal with the skills and capabilities whether it's storytelling story threading you know systems thinking that can can supply those people having that impact with whatever they need from those capabilities to to facilitate that change in in the world and i i think the more organized we get to jerry's point the more when people come in we can say hey where do you want to play i want to play here great because i think focusing our energies and efforts at this point in time we're kind of out of the you know we we like each other we like the way each other thinks we all believe in each other's passion we now need to get this stuff you know some traction moving and i i think we can do it it just requires a little organization right um a couple things i i think that people are showing up and saying i'm really intensely interested in this as claus is right you know and so forth and the rest of us are like what is this how does it fit where is it going um and i'm trying to figure out what is the right what is the right analogy what is the right metaphor what is the right word process for like it's not engulf and devour it's not how virus is hijack other organisms it's basically how do we kind of resonate with other organizations who's thinking we really like and meld with them it's maybe it's a vulcan mind meld is it's an organizational vulcan mind meld and i have a hunch that neil knows a lot about this um and i'll pause for a second and i've also got a small cue neil then i'll go back to the queue just very quickly um consciousness is around include and transcend but with entrepreneurship it's about it transcend to then include right the strange attractor is what is cast in front of the crowd that was otherwise going a different direction and it's the thing which potentially with sufficient inertia becomes the new model that makes the odd one obsolete so you need both and and you need to play these roles zoom in zoom out play these roles sense into which way is the herd moving matt's exactly correct i use the water buffalo and the and the wildebeest on the serengeti as an example right that if the herd isn't moving you can't steer them and so where are they going to go well they're going to go towards the grass where's the grass well there's the lightning and two two weeks from now the grass will be there so we better start moving right so there's a visionary direction there's also a whole bunch of risks you've got to take into account along the way once they're moving you can steer them right but you're still aiming broadly for the same sort of direction but you don't have to have an absolute vision you don't have to have absolute crystallized perfect model and my point is that every town is potentially a systems model provided they co constitute around what does they need to know to survive and be there in 50 years time so i have a little cue of mark charles and judy okay the carlo del's quote that i use all the time if only we knew what we know has really influenced how i think about this stuff and i thought it might be useful just to show a couple of things that are very pertinent to some of the conversations that we have been having so just for example the claus mentioned the idea of pre mortems and and there's actually an interesting literature on this idea of you know storytelling in the future about what happened in the past and how effective it can be as as a way of communicating things and richard taylor nobel prize winning behavioral economist you know said it put into the edge question 2017 that he thought pre mortems was sort of the the most important tool that we are not using enough when we're talking about all sorts of problems that we're trying to solve and so i just wanted to throw out there because there is a lot of information out there on that on a related note you know this issue of in the food system you've got the vegans and you've got everything else you know in the climate change area it's it's much worse and and yes it's hard to get all these people talking to each other but there's a whole different side of the problem and and that comes about you know in climate change i use the the metaphor of chess so climate chess and one of the things that we don't think about is that as we pull more people onto our team but say the team urgency um and in this case you know for example the alternative economic models alternative political models you know the idea that we have to get rid of capitalism to solve climate change and i'm not arguing with that point all i'm saying is when we pull the anti capitalism forces into team urgency a whole new army marches on to the field for team no urgency because they're scared to death of the idea of getting rid of capitalism and so it it adds a whole different complexity to who do you want to bring to the table and who do you want to engage in terms of what new oppositional barriers are you going to throw up just because those people are now part of the conversation two very last points claus also mentioned the you know the food system shock there's it's interesting because the food system area and the potential climate change implications of food shocks is is probably the most advanced systemic risk conversation in the climate change space there's a lot of literature out there on it it's the we've been talking about the topic for about a decade and and and so it there's there's a lot out there that we could do more with last something ed pointed out on on fire you know it's it's worth remembering that in a 2010 national academy's report the they came up with this particular graphic which i've used with uh decision makers and this this graphic has been incredibly effective this graphic is for the western us the area that you would expect to see annually burn one degree centigrade and which is what we're at in the western us and it ranges everywhere from about 70 percent for some ecosystems to 700 percent for other ecosystems and and that's what we're seeing play out in california right now and with 80 percent of the houses being built in the urban wildland interface this is no surprise at all and we we anticipated this you know a decade ago and so i just wanted to throw out some stuff because there is so much out there that supplements some of the different conversations that that we're having and let me stop there um mark that was that was lightning speed and brilliant and i was like there was there were many many wonderful things there so i really appreciate that including sort of who do we bring in at what stage because it totally changes the conversation which is which strange attractor do we put in front of the crowd which is you know connected to everything we're talking about so charles then judy uh thanks i sort of um had my hand up back when we're talking about roles and guilds and i got the flow sort of took me off or you guys off um but just another plug for the flow show and that we're going to really zoom in in a kind of hopefully acupunctural tight tightish sequence way on the roles and guilds also jerry and some others here um are going to be there and or for sure invited um you know who you are and anyone just dm me or email for for the details i did put them way up in the chat here um and in in terms of the sequence the flow sequence during the biz flow segment which is said um 10 p.m. central europe 1 p one p.m. in california um that's the coming out of the hash bins and looking at the role flow and guild flow then also kind of getting into the tech flow and sense flow and for sure the repo flow repository and that leads right into the story flow um at the next hour two p.m. specific in the story room so kiko lab flow show everyone's invited back on the roles and the guilds charles can i just i i i want to just say that i understand some of the things that you're saying right now but there are some of the things that are just you're using pattern language that doesn't that that i haven't learned yet so when you talk about the flow shows are these what what are these things how do you categorize them as a is it a capability is it a you know is it a is it a mechanism what it's it's it's actually it's actually a radio show but it's on zoom it's a show it's a show it's a show that just launched on monday and for the next three mondays and you're going to be you're going to be we're going to be publishing information right well we're recording and we do unless you don't zoom with the video but then everything goes through our workflow process and repository yeah and so i i think you know to put this in the context of of kind of the bigger conversation that we're having you know to me this is precisely like one of those practices or capabilities right that that if we build up the flow shows and they get traction in the world now that's a channel for which we can start to communicate certain things into a line immobilize and i think for us to for us to create a mental map of what are all of these projects and activities and where do they fit in our system the system is a basically a system of change that is inclusive of lots of different you know kind of uh thought processes i think that would help us and you know help us understand what everybody's not only is doing but where it fits and how where do we want to supercharge or boost things then we know where we're getting traction and where we're not getting traction we start to divert our energies and stuff toward those you know toward those things but we don't yet have a map of activity yet um and as ann pendleton would say in hamilton like we don't quite we haven't quite defined our systems of action um and i think we need thank we may need multiple maps of of that territory absolutely fine absolutely so just to quickly quickly just quickly respond thank you matt i'm really excited to pursue that further and you're for sure invited i email you as well um just just a quick word on the context which i didn't mention but so this is um and i do have my maps of courses as well the um the concept with kiko lab and maybe this has some some relevance resonance with with ogm i hope i hope i think but we didn't articulate that it's a p2p incubator idea p2p incubator accelerator you know and what does that really mean and we can't really know until we come together you know and talk about it and decide and figure out together um so that's um within the biz flow part of the flow show at large so cool and it's and it's on my to-do list to have a conversation with you and lauren about how these things might align and what we might how we might better structure pico lab plus ogm had a wonderful car with with p cominsky yesterday about that too yeah awesome that happens a lot with p it's crazy um judy thank you for um you're muted and thank you for your patience please jump in doesn't say i'm muted on my machine you're good you're good now you just i'm muted um i guess the thing that i'm focusing on i'm i'm really wanting action vectors in a major compliment maybe even dwarfing to some extent knowledge vectors because we're facing many multiple crises and so it would be interesting from my perspective to try to actualize all of these dimensions and start mapping action plans that are dendritic instead of content that builds and connects to other content and that would put a whole different spin it would be like another zone of your brain because it would you know you could take action vectors on anything in the brain but i want to extract the action vectors to be able to look at what i can do in the arts organization that connects with the science organization that connects with the university and how i form those connections to get some momentum going that's not pursuing a linear path to a future that may have no relevance thank you um i i agree and part of what the goal of this call was which we've gone 90 minutes so we should start wrapping was to define some guilds for example and some domains more for the guilds so the guilds could actually start forming up so that they could take action on whatever it is that whatever the practices are that they'd like to do so let's bounce that topic to next week's call and maybe before i also wanted to add a little something then i'll pass it to neil and this is just about change and i think one of our domains is just just change like how change works how to catalyze change what causes people to change but i'm really struck that i have a desk at a little design firm here in portland called ziba and every monday i run a little think thing over lunch where we sit down and just talk about stuff and one monday i was like hey there seems to be a lot of activity around this virus coming and our conclusion at the end of the conversation was maybe we should ask everybody to take their laptops home because we don't know what might happen the next day the next week there wasn't one of these lunch meetings because shutdown lockdown happened in between thinking mate in between thinking maybe we should take our laptops home but business as usual and lockdown and and so that that has really stuck in my head because it was inconceivable to us that that all of the businesses of portland never mind most of the world would actually be in lockdown and that is the week that it happened in the u.s and it had happened earlier in china and it just wasn't close enough to us that we noticed uh etc etc but but the dramatic pace of change sometimes really sort of lacks me but also the impossibility of conceiving that future and in cost i i love sort of uh future histories and backcasting and a whole bunch of other kinds of means of trying to see what's going going to go on but we sell them can even even want to envision the future that actually happens and here i'll go back to slavery which is most most colonists in the early in the early states couldn't envision the american economy without slavery it just was impossible for them to picture that the economy would even work unless there were people who were working for free under you know subjugated in that in that way it was just a natural part of everything the way you knew who the richest people were in the country was the people who owned it the most humans that that was like it wasn't that you know bill gates has 60 billion dollars it was so-and-so has 2200 slaves and that therefore is the wealthiest person so so i think that part of our charter is to play with tools and to play with these methods and so forth so that we can arrive at means to have these conversations with people uh in a way that that that that works so that we can change the way we all work together for the better in some way and that sounds really big in general but but even like saying something is better than something else is sort of got to find our way to that and i've been watching the rnc every night with a drink in hand and it's been really really hard because i feel like i'm looking at the negative of the film i feel like i'm looking at counterfactuals every day all the time 24 7 i'm calling this the gaslighting convention because apparently um donald trump is more of a mensch than joe biden and has and has gone to more graduations and shaken more people's hands and welcomed more troops back than joe who's never done a thing in his life and i'm like this is just bright and loud and clear an urgent need for what it is we're working on here in the realm of politics today because there's less than 70 days i've forgotten what the count is to where we're going but but you know we are we are on an imminent brink of a decision that scares me right now because it's smelling awfully close to what the 2016 scenario looked like anyway sorry for the long rant but but my nerves are a little unedged because i've been watching the the convention and trying to sit and absorb it in a way that is useful for our conversations here because i think the work we're doing really matters to that conversation also and i think one of our domains is politics governance and change and how this change happens so enough on that neil and you may end up having the the last word on today's call just am i about to share screens there jerry go ahead yeah just just while just while i'm mentioning that the reason i'm in belgium is because i saw this coming right not uh covered but collapsed and my partner and i said you better get over here now this is going to the shit's going to hit the fan we've been sensing this some of us have been doing this for 20 years right so we know this is coming none of us here can pretend that we don't know climate collapse is coming it's a question of when we choose to act right um in terms of sharing screen let me just share the uh see if i can work out where it went you have permission to show screen thank you i need to give you that yep yeah you're good is it coming up yes um right now that i can find out where it went forgive me lost it go down second find powerpoint come back up yeah sorry trying to get back to powerpoint yep are we can you see it why yes we see it just fine oh i can't that's really funny how do i make you smaller all right okay now why won't can you see it large or uh it's smart it's there we go there we go now that's perfect that's much better just just showing a construct here which might help with some of the conversations been happening around guilds and things um i think it was kevin mentioned about you need doers right and we need action on the ground and for those things which we can agree and of which we're certain they're simple we can plan we can control them right for those things that are technically complicated we're less certain we need expertise for those things which are socially complicated we need to build relationships and build common ground and for those things that are truly complex we need a very very different set of skills right and so this is a construct that i did after compensations with a variety of people as you can see at the bottom and it was talking about for managing projects and sites around regeneration but complexity so for projects and sites constructing growing harvesting maintaining assets we know how to do that building trust and organizing trustworthy teams we know how to do that procuring regenerative community sites and listing heads hearts hands engaging facilitating this is socially complicated work which because you're dealing with people of unlike mind i'll just slide you guys across to here on this side understanding the site potentials for example in master planning or or farming or technology right as a technical skill when you start to come out into the zone of complexity though you're now looking at integrative anticipatory whole system design of linked social ecological systems how is this place going to survive in the future when you start to explore those landscapes of potentials the human ecological and ecosystemic and you're looking to catalyze social ecological entrepreneurship and synthesize systemic needs to coherently align across time space relationships and change right the issue at the top is your individual consciousness and education can raise that or you can go on your own journey collective consciousness like this group here raising the realizations for deeper potentials but there's also another role way out here which is holding spaces and the system safe for the system to see and sense itself in deepening and widening through collective presencing which is beyond what klaus was talking about the same model of theory you collective presencing at the bottom of the u towards targeted system health interventions grief working etc so that's just one example of the sort of thing now i think there's a structure here for the sort of stuff that's probably in the global brain right in terms of what's the simple stuff we know how to do what's the harder stuff what are the skills and i think there are guilds in in these maps as well now not necessarily this one but who are the people that can communicate at this level to do this sort of thing in this context and if we can work out how to bring people together to do that in places and give them the information to do the work then we will have transcended the old model with the intention of coming back to include them and that's an ethical intention to go further faster take the risk to try and find a way forward knowing that the current system is going to fail and is failing i'll stop there thanks um neil that is awesome that is that that is a whole call worth of and much more worth of thinking i appreciate it my my thought here is um my my model of change at a simplest is the three things i sort of typed into the chat which is um figure out how to give people simple goals like soil health right like like a simple goal is hey if you mind the soil a bunch of other stuff about the system gets better right and and here and different for social systems different for but how do you how do you crystallize things down so that everybody doesn't have to have a map of the entire working system in their heads because that ain't going to happen so how do we make it so that people have simple guidelines um the the change model that is my favorite change model is taking people by the hand to try something new some somebody who trusts you taking you into some new experience and my story is a buddy took me to my first quaker meeting way back when i lived in connecticut and i fell in love with quakerism because a buddy of mine said hey why don't you meet me and and fam you know at this building and i got there before they did and then modeling behavior is incredibly important so the more and and chico lab is trying to do this with you know the koolab and so forth is like how do we actually instantiate something that other people can can go oh i'll have what they're having like that line from when harry met sally is one of my favorite lines because to me that's a one of the big catalysts of social change is seeing that other people are doing this kind of weird new thing but they're succeeding and they're having a great time and i want to i want to do that because the ground i'm standing on seems really flimsy and shaky and is getting worse and worse but but almost nobody will cross the river on their own because it looks really dangerous and deadly so they and and they can't imagine the grassy field on the other side because that's really hard sorry that was just just riffing on your diagram so i'm wondering where those concepts of things like modeling behavior fit into the diagram you know if they would like that and i saw claus and i think judy raised their hands and matt yeah i think we have to take it for granted that systems have a tendency to sub-optimize so following peter trucker here systems automatically sub-optimize so this is art this is the experience we just had in this NGO world you know animal rights and veganism and all of these things and so to provide context within the system so it can harmonize its intentions that brings power to the system but we have to assume from going in even within our own discussions here that there will always be a tendency to sub-optimize and i think one reason they get sub-optimized is that they get captured and once they're captured they get locked into some way that benefits a few people you know to to to go on from there longer conversation so let's go to judy then matt and charles and judy just stepped away so matt and charles will get judy when she comes back yeah i i agree that systems naturally sort of it's it's this notion of entropy right like if you look at the long history of time and someone did this project out of australia i wish i could remember his name where he tracked time from the very beginning of everything through through now and you know entropy brings everything down right that's a system in some ways sub-optimizing and then you have these threshold moments that elevate into you know those other into that other state usually that comes from you know a kind of a form of catharsis which is you know systems change for two reasons catharsis which is the complete breakdown of and then the emergence of something else right if you think about human catharsis or enlightenment which is some level of awareness that you achieve and then elevate to you know that that higher state and i think you know that's the role of facilitation in in systems is it to make it easy or easier for that system to achieve balance right because i don't know if they sub-optimize i think the jerry's point they become out of balance something wins and dominates and then consolidates the power and makes it you know ultimately it's basically destroys the system because of its own you know own thing so the plate the sorry what i really wanted to come to though is again back to this idea of organization and where does action happen right if action is happening and projects are happening out of these domains and domains job is to find points of intervention and to work together to find these points of intervention in the meta system that help it to keep moving forward and guilds actually work across any type of intervention type so and we need to be this is why i want language to separate that we don't use guilds to mean everything right i think a guild is a skill or a practice or a way of doing that can be applied against any action any project that fits within domains of understanding that all have to ultimately be brought together into this complex system awareness that you know neil was talking about and then the tools and the builders those are to enable those guilds and those you know places of action to do to do what they do best we're building things in service of and i think if we do that and we build you know we build all of that capability and we show demonstrate to model a new way of working that's when you start to draw i you know i feel like i could start to draw some of people in the business community into this right kevin and i are trying to do this right now with you know a big fidelity investments and drawing them into some of these change you know things that kevin's been thinking about with these community banks so i think we have to we have to build these models and then we have to go and distribute them to people who have the power to actually move in this direction and i think talking about systemic risk and all of that kind of stuff and helping them see these things is the way that we're going to do it and so that's my kind of again i'm coming back to the same system of action that you know and the question is is can we start next time next conversation maybe not with the check-in but with just getting this conversation going because i feel like we run out of time and we add more material and now we have to use the material that we already have and just start you know getting the thing organized so things just get juicy when our calls get long it's very weird yeah it's lovely but yeah so judy charles and then closing poem okay i just want to bring us back and i don't want to sound like a broken record but we aren't doing in my mind a very good job of gathering the action points that are possible inflections and if we can identify action steps that can be influenced in some way and we attempt to influence them in multiple locations then we have an opportunity to learn what works and what doesn't work so somehow we need a process to experiment report and modify in an experiential learning kind of model so that we do things and then we fine-tune them and then we fine-tune them better and then we change them completely because the world just changed but they still apply and that's the way creative iteration kind of goes and i think if we could focus on some of those aspects and how we can collect and enable those aspects then maybe we can be better agents of change which is i think what all of us are at heart wanting to do in service of a better world better community sorry thank you judy that's right on charles and then neil with our closing poem because we should end our call back on the the theme of system collapse and uncertainty so there's a i wanted to to flash on a new project involving tom atley he's he's not driving it he's an advisor along with martin roush who made the it was his martin's idea to do pattern language out of wise democracy work and made the website and so martin and a guy called michael dowd who i haven't really checked out he's an evolutionary evangelist who i'm wondering if he might be in your brain jerry but and so it's basically around deep adaptation but more particularly like wise adaptation this kind of concept and it's feeding out of the wise democracy patterns the sort of things that could be i honestly didn't um yeah yeah i think so okay i think so but um yeah just just to mention so wise it's kind of combining several models feeding the wise democracy work into the transition design through the lens of transition design ecosystem of collective sense making which i mentioned a bit and i think there's still um it's still ripe to kind of go into the forum for ogm for example and um again it's a new pattern line which actually around us wise adaptation so just stay tuned for that awesome um thank you that got me started on a whole bunch of stuff um neil why don't we take a everybody take a breath and uh let neil thanks i'll just close the door because we've just chosen exactly the moment that the bells are tolling just to say and they're tolling for us this gives us that moment to take a breath nice to have the bells tolling actually yeah i do it seems sometimes we have to do we're on somehow somehow seems appropriate doesn't it absolutely we were just having that conversation yeah um it's funny that um uh charles should mention michael dowd because michael dowd has interviewed jen bandel uh from deep adaptation and michael dowd has a wonderful series on post doom you know except and then now what right which is very much where the business of annam myself is coming from and now what now that you know now what and an article by jen bandel and gail bradbrook in july uh came out and it prompted me to finalize a poem that i started writing during the fires in australia last year so i'll start with a quote from them and then i'll go into the poem and it's in solidarity with all of those feeling uh this pain and feeling what's happening in california and will happen in many other places so it starts with a quote our hurt is not something to suppress or seek a distraction from our tears can be a truth that we can integrate into our being then we can be honest with each other about the path ahead because it's a path of both despair and dedication paying attention fully to what is around us and in front of us even though it hurts is to be fully alive as carliel gibran wrote the deeper that sorrow carves into your being the more joy you can contain there is a calling we are hearing to witness the beauty of life on earth even as so much as being lost in the same way we would tend the bedside of a dying loved one and my poem is called no ripples and it was written uh on an evening in a rainforest pool that was shrinking and in australia as the fires were uh starting to rage through the southern part of the country moving our way no ripples immersed disembodied head above the surface sunken body motionless despite the nips of countless fish come to taste this large human sacrifice laid out in their shrinking sacred waters as the burning sun dipped behind maud allen i felt the heat of the day of the whole unrelentingly drying and frying week draining from me as the water's cool seeped in in this the deepest spot beside the long green wall of water weed rising vertically providing cover for the shy mary river turtles who seek solace here and whose endangered nose tips i've seen breathing at this fluid juncture between the rocky bottom and the cool clear water no ripples i tell myself mindfully a self-imposed discipline in this wild and sacred place as agile wallabies approach first one and then two cautious alert gray ears pricking at any sound from the forest my face level were theirs as they looked toward me large rear haunches up as they lean their pretty faces down and drink from the shallowing cool edge where more waterweeds are stranded daily by the falling water level and each circumference shrinking sip long slow deep drafts to slake their thirst finally after patiently filled they rose looked around looked to their paws and bounded off into the crisp dry fallen leaves of the creek bed leaving me immersed in air and water and the liminal darkening time zone between where water beetles dodged each other like precision sports car team and long legged water boatmen dented the water walking on inverted clouds and rainforest reflections bending the fading light where their feet poked the unpierced surface tension creating dimpled silvery menisci in the space time light continuum at this air water interface through which I quietly protruded below barely visible tiny fish nibbling my tickled skin and forming goosebumps as if I were a giant cod and they were cleaner ass and as dusk descended the cicadas shrilled one last deafening triumphant cacophonous chorus and then fell silent so silent it was like the end of an act should I applaud no I honored the silence and what a silence is there anything more silent than the pause in the collective soundscape after a mass dusk cicada crescendo as sounds returned I heard surprised thoughts say hey they didn't see me or did they they'd certainly taken their time drunk their food as if I wasn't there why because they sensed I was no threat because I made no ripples or perhaps because they too knew soon there would be none and they sensed as I did that we every living thing assembled here would bow to honor the ritual of this sacred sharing at home now in brisbane 150 kilometers south as the smoke from too many fires turns parched suburbia orange I reflect on the two dry forests and the shrinking pools and the tinderbox conditions and my tears well up imagine imagine if imagine if as each tear welled and swelled and slipped away each free falling gentle teardrop drop by minuscule drop could splash and leave a ripple a ripple then another then ripple after ripple enough to refill that sacred pool enough to satisfy those dependent on its cool clear waters enough to replenish that which has filled me more than once so that the cycle of love neutrality and life could continue I will keep crying for I believe in my soul that my tears will make a difference even as the fires keep coming well Neil thank you that was beautiful thank you all thank you so much that is a um a stark and beautiful place for us to end our call today um see you all on the intertubes and next week and hold you all in our hearts thank you thanks everybody take care bye