Welcome to the wiki tree challenge. Hi, I'm Mindy Silva. Welcome to the wiki tree challenge highlights reel. Today I have Keith Menchie's here, a wiki treeer and also representing the genealogical society of South Africa. I also have Nigel Walker, who's here to watch and participate in our conversation. Welcome gentlemen. Thank you. I'm going to talk a little bit about wiki tree first for those viewers that don't know who we are. Our mission is to grow one accurate share tree that connects us all and is accessible to everyone free forever. It's all about collaboration. There's one profile per person. If you and I share an ancestor, we work on that profile together. It's not that you have your tree and I have my tree, it's all one tree and did I mention that it's free. Now we've passed the 34 million profile mark with almost 11 million of those having DNA connections attached to them. And what really makes wiki tree work is its community. A corner start of this community is our honor code. So anyone can view profiles on wiki tree but to edit anything more than close family, you have to sign up on our code which emphasizes sourcing, giving credit, courtesy, understanding, accuracy and respecting privacy. Privacy is another aspect of wiki tree that makes it special. So even though we're growing one world tree and we collaborate, only close family members can work on those modern family profiles. Now as you go back further in your branches, the privacy controls open up and collaboration is especially important there between distant cousins or other interested researchers who are serious about the genealogical research, careful about their sources, and willing to see their work validated or invalidated with DNA. So if you aren't a member yet, come and join us. It just takes a minute to register as a guest member and you can delete a guest account at any time. The tenth challenge of 2023 is now over. And of course, like I said, we partnered with the Genealogical Society of South Africa. They gave us seven names. We had seven days to find every one we could within seven degrees of them. So seven degrees means seven steps in any direction. On wiki tree, we call that count a person cc7. Now our starting people were Johannes August Heath, the primary author of the first few volumes of South African genealogies, and a founding member of the Genealogical Society of South Africa. His final cc7 was 9,310. Second, we had Rolof Thunis Johannes Lombard, who is the lead editor of the first few volumes of the South African genealogy. So his final cc7 was 11,285. Third was Edward John Morris Jones. Now he published role of the British settlers in South Africa in 1969 and numerous extracts from contemporary accounts as the Albany Chronicles. His final cc7 was 446. Colin Graham Batha, who was head of the Cape Archives for 32 years and published the French refugees on the Unok families in 1919. His final cc7 was 20,769. We had Margaret Constance, 20-man Jones Cairns, who published widely on the social history of the Cape community. Her final cc7 was 1,127. Flores Albertus Van Yarsville, an influential historian, educator, and genealogist, and published numerous books and school textbooks. His final cc7 was 9,440. We had Marjorie Diane D. Murray Nash, so MD Nash, who published The Authoritative, The Settler Handbook, a new list of the 1820 settlers in 1987. And her final cc7 was 7,278. So Keith, I would say we developed some really long lines during the week. Don't you agree? I think that's correct. I mean Edward Jones started out from zero, right? And Van Yarsville was not very... His was a new profile also, I believe, but although there were already many Van Yarsville in the wiki tree single tree. And the others, yes. I might mention that we looked at a couple of others. To Toy Malherpa, who published a book on the South African, the Africana origins, we found that he was already extremely well connected. His book was published much earlier in the early 1900s. And another South African genealogist, I looked at, was Anna Borsik, and who published on the slave community in the Cape during the early European settlement. And what we found was she was the only child and was not married. And her parents were both from Holland, from the Netherlands. And so we really didn't have much of a South African connection for her. So we eventually landed up with these seven. And even for the ones that you might have thought were well connected, we found that there was plenty of opportunity. Right. And some of these were the big numbers, like Kolumbatha. I mean, even if we started with a smaller number, we were able to connect to existing branches on wiki tree. And that's one of the great things about having just one big global tree, is that hopefully once you start adding your branches, you'll go to add your great grandparents or great-great-grandparents and find out that there's already hundreds of profiles created after that. And so you don't have to go in and add those older profiles. They're already there. And that's how some of those really big numbers occurred. Now, we do have a few of our top people here during the Challenge Week. We have Paul Snack, who was our most valuable participant or MVP. Heather Jenkinson, a longtime challenge researcher, was our top bounty hunter. And Donna Bowman, who was the team captain of the week. She did a great job. But it takes an entire team to collaborate and come up with outstanding results. And we had more than 69 people participate in an incredible Shoah collaboration. And, you know, we were talking about this before we started with Nigel. Looks like we lost Nigel. And, you know, just talking about the fact that everybody comes into this with different levels of experience or, you know, a different way of looking at things. Plus we all have different subscriptions that we might look at or different sites that we visit. And so it's really great to see people come together and tackle these, you know, difficult lines when you hit them. And, you know, bring in those different viewpoints. And sometimes just amazing things can happen. And I see it over and over again in this challenge when we get these, these WikiTrees together, they can really do amazing things. And Keith, you yourself have been on WikiTree for quite some time, right? I've only been on WikiTree for about three years. Oh, wow. But what I, what I decided to do, I published a book on the Manchees family some time ago. And after looking around as to how to best make that available, I decided on WikiTree. And so what I've been doing over the last three years or so was essentially not only putting the Manchees family into WikiTree, but also connecting up all the married people. And what Wendy said is very, very true. When I have someone who married into the Manchees family, it is almost always the case that it is only one of the most two additional people that I have to, to put in to then connect them into the entire South African tree that you will find in, in the standards like South African genealogies and Davidia and Parma. So think of WikiTree as it has all those, those trees in it that you used to from South African genealogies, but they're all connected together, which is just wonderful. And then we did, we took a look at all of our starting ancestors and we found many blood or marriage connections, you know, which is one of the great things about WikiTree is it's so easy to see how you're connected with people. And just like out in the real world, and I mean, we're all connected to each other one way or another, if you know, you really get into the genealogy of it. And so we kind of looked at some of these to see who was the closest to the other ones. And we had Roa Lombard, who's 13 generations from MD Nash. So he is her fifth cousin, once removed. He's also 14 generations from Colin Baltha, being his fourth cousin, four times removed, and 15 generations from Johannes Hees, being his sixth cousin, once removed. So, you know, it's really fun to find these. Next, we have Colin, who is 10 generations from Flora's Fanyardsville. And 13 generations from Johannes Hees, so he's his fifth cousin, once removed. He's also nine degrees from Margaret Cairns and 13 generations from Johannes Hees. And then MD Nash is 12 generations from Colin Baltha, so his fourth cousin, twice removed, 12 generations from Flora's Fanyardsville, being his fifth cousin, and 13 generations from Roa Lombard, being his fifth cousin, once removed. So, you know, with all these distant connections, you would start out working on one line. And, you know, as you went out in the branches, you would find out that you were actually working on more than one starting person's, you know, ancestors, because so many of these starting people were connected. And we do have a lot of fun using that connection finder during the week to see who we're closest to. So, this is the captain's connection to MD Nash. They are 15 cousins, once removed, so very distant, but actual cousins, so blood related, with a common ancestor of Isabel Craver-Rawson, born in 1435. And so, as you do, you know, use the connection finder, it takes you on the path, and you can see which lines to follow to get you to that common ancestor. And then, for one very notable connection we found was between Johannes Heese and Stefanus Jacobus de Toy. Stefanus studied theology at the Theological Seminary in Stellenbosch, and was ordained as a minister. In 1875, while in the Transfall, he was appointed official translator of the Bible by the GRA. In 1876, he launched the first Afrikaans language newspaper. Johannes and Stefanus are third cousins twice removed. We also took a look at the connections to Sir John Murray Murray, the South African judge that served as Southern Rhodesia's Chief Justice from 1955 to 1961. And so, here are the relations to those. We had MD Nash, who is five generations, being his first cousin, once removed. Colin Baltha is 11 generations, so his fourth cousin, once removed. Flores Fenyarsville is 11 generations also. Rolof Lombard is 14 generations from him, being his fifth cousin, twice removed. And Johannes Heese is also 14 generations and his sixth cousin. Now, we'll go ahead and we'll take a look at some other interesting finds and connections we found starting with Johannes Heese. And, you know, some of these connections were closer. Some of them were further out, but once again, you know, we were looking within seven degrees in any direction. But this one was kind of close. So the father of his wife, Magdalena Elizabeth, who was born in 1908, his name was Lorenz Erasmus Detoy, was a prisoner of war during the Boer War. Now, his wife, Cornelia Margarita LaRue, was imprisoned as a refugee and three of her children died in refugee camp, one of dysentery two of measles. And, you know, so sometimes you do find these tragic stories, unfortunately, you know, what the wars are doing and how they're affecting these families. Now, Lorenz was a member of the Winbur commando in 1901, and he was captured at Sand River. And not only was Lorenz Johannes's father-in-law, they were six cousins once removed.  You know, it may be really distant, but now we have Rolof Thunis, Johannes Lombard, he was born in Blomhoff, Transvaal, South Africa in 1931. And we found Alexander Lowry McDonald in his branches. His life was well documented in a memoir written by his grandson, Eric Alexander McDonald. It was interesting to see that his age changed with his diary entries. So, you know, where sometimes we look at census or other records in the United States, and, you know, you're not sure if the person was fudging their age or if the census record, census taker heard it wrong or whatever it was. Here, these were diary entries by himself. And so I think he just kind of lost track of what his actual age was. Maybe it just wasn't important to him. So in 1879, he said, my birthday, I believe I must be 59 now, though there's some doubt about the year of birth, whether 1821 or 1822. Alexander was born in Scotland, but was stationed in the West Indies after joining the army. In the early 1840s, he arrived in Cape Colony and worked as a teacher, a pain master, and then a quarter master. He married three times, finally returning to visit his home of Scotland in 1876, being stationed in England, but that didn't last long. And, you know, with all his experience in Cape Colony, they went ahead, even though he was older, and they returned him to that Cape Colony post. He said to have died in 1879 in Newcastle in South Africa, having left his widow in Port Elizabeth. You know, it was interesting to see the journeys back and forth with him and his family. And I know that at one point he couldn't afford passage for them all. And so he had an adult son help them with it. You know, Keith was it common for the military men not to remain in South Africa once they were posted there, or was that something that was a common occurrence, do you think? Most of them, most of them, they were posted to South Africa. And then, you know, before 1900, would have left, would have been posted as part of the British army and would have gone back to the United Kingdom. But after 1900, when you started to have the formation of the Union of South Africa, South Africa became a country part of the British Commonwealth and responsible for their own armies. So by the time you get to the First World and Second World Wars, South Africa had its own army that was independent of the British army. But certainly even before 1820, the British had a military presence, which includes some of my ancestors, from the late 1700s in the Cape Colony. And Alexander here was seven degrees from Rolaugh-Lombard. And that is two connections that changed via marriage, so related by marriage. Now, third, we had Edward John Morris Jones, who was born in 1889 in Hendon, England. His father, Charles Edward Jones, was a clerk. His additional first names of John Morris most likely came from his maternal grandfather, Frederick Walter John Morris. And, you know, the researchers found many interesting people in the branches of Edward Jones. So if you were related to his second wife, Eileen Muriel, Gavin Wilson, one of those was Herbert Trevor Fitch. He worked for Scotland Yard during World War I. And his task was catching German spies in Britain. So our researchers were a little bit enthralled by this because that's, you know, obviously not a common occupation. We also had Cecil Edwin Fitch, KBE, who was knighted in 1924 services in connection with wartime recruiting. And, you know, although we look at some of these ones that are more notable, that's definitely not our focus during the challenge because I would say we would spend, you know, we spend the majority of the time looking at just the common people that are in the different branches. And unfortunately, you know, not all of them are so well documented. And we did find that and with our challenge this week is we didn't have very many people that were skilled in finding any kind of a newspaper or something for South African families. And so unless, you know, we went back far enough where we found them in England or somewhere else, we didn't have those newspaper articles that we usually have during a challenge week to find out more about those individuals. So sometimes you do only, you know, really find more details if they were involved with something like this or were a little bit either more notable or had something tragic at first. Yeah, most of us, I think, was interesting. He turns out he was what in my day we called a traffic salesman manufacturer's representative. But later on in life, he landed up in the east of my plate and spent a lot of time documenting and researching the 1820 settler families. And after he wrote a book on the best he could do on the log of who the 1820 settlers were, he spent much of his later life compiling as a series of works called the Albany Chronicles, which were extracts from various accounts, including newspapers and censuses and military reports and so on, on the families of the 1820 settlers and their movement around the Cape at that time. So very interesting person. And something about these genealogists is we started with a blank slate here and most Jones left nothing about his own genealogy. And so this was very interesting for us to find out the connections into back to England and perhaps to Wales. Right. And we had talked about that, you know, at the start of the week about how many people came in from different areas in different locations. But Keith, I was really just still surprised just to find out how many locations we did wind up in and, you know, just all over the place. Now here, this was just a short touching story. And, you know, once again, we like finding anything that makes somebody stand out and helps us realize kind of who they were more as a person. Because we want to honor these ancestors on wiki tree. And so we want to find these details that set them apart or find out things that happened in their life. And this was Emma Sarah Fitch.  So she was single all of her life. In her 60s, she met her true love, you know, her husband, James Bryant Douglas, who was also in his 60s and marrying for the first time. And so, you know, that was just definitely unusual and pretty cool to find these two that found love so late in life. Now, Emma is four degrees from Edward Jones with a relationship being through Edward's wife, Eileen. Of course, we had Colin Graham Botha, who was born in 1883 in Cape Colony, South Africa. In 1969, four years before his death, Colin recorded his life memories on tape and told how his ancestors had come to South Africa in 1766. The progenitor's name he said was Boudier, later Bougie, which became Boud and in the 19th century, Botha. So the tape is preserved in the Cape archives and contains many details about the colorful career of Colin Graham Botha. And, you know, Keith, this was fairly common, though, right, the changing of how the names were spelled or pronounced with people coming in from so many places. Yes, when the Dutch first arrived in South Africa, they insisted that people use surnames, which was not the usual practice in Europe at the time. And so, you find that firstly, many of the immigrants were German and the language was Dutch, so there were sort of phonetic spellings of many of the names. So the spellings changed a lot, and some of the names did evolve over time. And in fact, in South Africa today with names like Engelbrecht and even my own name, Mainches, you will find heated discussions as to what is the, quote, correct way to spell the family name. And what is the, you know, the genuine pedigree that people should have? Right, you know, and that's really important as a genealogist, if you're a beginning genealogist, to know the history of the names in these different countries, because, you know, in some countries such as Portugal, I mean, the name, the spelling has been set for hundreds of years. And it doesn't matter how anybody writes it, the government says this is how that name is spelled. It never changes. You know, you don't have those variances like you have in the United States or in South Africa, where the names kind of evolve and they change a little bit. And, you know, the way your great-great-grandfather spelled it, they want to do it. So, here we have Peter Alexander Young, MD, who is a well-traveled individual. He was born about 1846 in Australia, but by 1861, he was living with his widow mother and four siblings in First Scotland. He remained in Scotland for some time, earning his medical degree in marrying. The 1881 census shows him in Portobello, Scotland, with his wife Marion, son Patrick, brother John, and three servants. And then in 1901, he was living with Marion and their six children in Edinburgh. So, you know, and once again, they have three servants in the home. So, it was just really fun to track how some of these people migrated and, you know, looking at their occupations trying and figure out why they made the changes that they did. And Peter is only three generations from Colin being his nephew. Now, the fifth person we had was Margaret Constance, 20-man Jones, Karen's. And what a mouthful that name is. I can just imagine as a child, you know, learning to write that out. She was born in 1912 in Cape Town, South Africa, and died there.  She lived in the same house for 93 years. That's incredible. I mean, how many people can say that? I have a photograph of the house. I should actually post the photograph with a profile of 123. That would be cool. Yeah, that would be great. It was fun to see the researchers comment on this one. The comment was, downtown Abbey is real. So, for those of you that don't know what that is, that was a TV show. But the family of Alfred Charles, 20-man, and his brother Lawrence, Burl 20-man, had five to six domestic servants in their households in every census year, including a butler, a cook, a lady's maids, housemaids, kitchen maids, and in an old age, a nurse maid. So, apparently, the export trade with South Africa was very lucrative. That was what they both did for an occupation. And then Alfred and Margaret were first cousins, three times removed. Now, I'd like to bring up the issue of naming, Keith. So, I noticed, you know, a lot of these people have two names. Would those both be two proper first names and no middle names, or are middle names used in South African genealogy? In South Africa, in the Dutch tradition, people have a set of given names, which is their first name, and then their surname. It's a little different, though, with the Margaret, especially the 20-man Jones, where there was a British tradition, especially pervasive during the Victorian era, of families adopting the wife's surname as a double-barreled addition, what is called double-barreled addition to the last name. So, Margaret's father was Jones, and her mother was 20-man. And the family then started using, every one of the children was given 20-man as the last given name. And so, they were, for example, Margaret 20-man Jones. And some of them actually used that in subsequent generations as the family name. And a little bit of research, and I found out that in Britain, parents are able to name their children whatever they wish, including the surname. And so, I don't find that any of the children were baptized as 20-man Jones, but certainly some of them used that as a family name and still use it. And Margaret had cousins who migrated to New Zealand, and that name is existing in New Zealand today as well. So, especially with common names like Smith and Jones, it was fairly common for British people to use the mother's surname to help distinguish their family from everyone else named Jones or Smith. Right, and that makes sense, makes it a little bit harder when you're researching sometimes following the name changes, but definitely makes sense. And then here we have Margaret Josephine Shaw 20-man Jones, who was born in the city of Cork in Ireland. Now, at age 16, she traveled alone from London, England, on the ship Johannesburg to Cape Town, South Africa. Earlier in the century, at least four of her father's siblings had emigrated to Cape Colony, so that may be why she was traveling there to join her relatives. However, only her aunt Frances Catherine Shaw Burroughs was still alive in 1897, and she would die nine months after Margaret arrived. So, you know, even if she had gone there intending to live with these aunts and uncles, unfortunately, that family did not last long at that location. Now, Margaret's mother died in 1900, her father died in 1903, and four of her siblings emigrated to Montreal, Canada after their parents' death. And so, Margaret was pretty much the only one in South Africa. I mean, I think that's pretty courageous. She made that trip at such a young age, and, you know, but and then considered that her homeland. I mean, that's where she stayed. And she was the mother of our starting person, Margaret Constance, 20-man Jones, Cairns. Always interesting to see, though, how people wound up in South Africa from the different locations. And, you know, you don't always have an indication like that with family there on why they made that, that move. Now, sixth, we had Flora Salbertus, Ben Yarnsfeld, born in 1922 in Transvaugh. And in his branches, we have William Cornelis, Jans van Rensburg. Now, he was elected the second president of the South African Republic in 1862. The supporters of Martinez-Wessel Pretorius, the first president and eight degrees from Flora's, did not support the results of the election of what amounted and what amounted to the Transvaugh Civil War broke out. When the fighting came to a halt in 1864, another presidential election was held, and Pretorius was re-elected. So, I mean, that's who it seems the people wanted in there. He was sworn in on the 9th of May 1864. Yarn subsequently returned to his farm near Rustenburg, where he died and was buried shortly after. The South African capital Pretoria was named after Pretorius. So, it sounds like that was a pretty big time of civil unrest. Now, Willem and Flora's are fourth cousins, four times removed, with Maria Kicker's father as a common ancestor. Here we have Frederick François DeWitt. Frederick had nine siblings, three wives, and 11 known children. So, there are a lot of vital records that mention him, and the reason I've added him is so you can tell us a little bit more about these death notices. What do they contain and why are they so important to genealogy? Yes, the death notice, South African genealogy is a little different. I'm sure each country is a little different, but the most important record, perhaps, that you will find in South African genealogy is what is called the death notice. It's not the death certificate. The death notice is the first step in the probate, the civil administration of the estate. And as such, it will name, it will give the deceased name, very often the names of any spouses. It will give his or her parents' names and the names of the children. And so it's one of those rare documents in genealogy where you connect across three generations, and it's very, very useful in establishing family connections and family traits. Yeah, those just seem just invaluable in your research. Yeah. Now, Frederick is 11 generations from Flores, being his fourth cousin, once removed. And, you know, once again, on WikiTree, this is just a click of the button to see how people are connected. So I'm really interesting to look at those pathways and see how people connect to each other. And then lastly, we had Marjorie Diane M.D. Murray Nash, who was born in 1928 in Cape Colony. And in her branches, we had Andrew Murray, who is a very notable figure in South African cultural history. He was a Scott who became the minister of the Dutch Reform Church in the 1820s. He said to be the driving force that began the transformation of the DRC in the Cape from a dry formal state into a dynamically evangelical church that reached out to all who spoke Afrikaans' Cape Colors as well as whites. And he is the great, great grandfather of M.D. Nash. Yeah, she is his direct descendant. And that was a surprise to me to find that M.D. Nash, who was such a great researcher for the 1820 settlers, who are, of course, a pure British descent, to be descended from such an Andrew Murray, who was Scottish, but who became this great cultural figure in Afrikanian history in South Africa. Then we have Adolphus Julian Claremont, who was one of the well-traveled relatives. Now, his occupation was listed as a merchant. He was born in Barbados, married in South Africa, had children in South Africa and England, and later moved to Halifax in Nova Scotia, where he died.  And Adolphus is seven degrees from Marjorie Diane Nash. And then whether we support wars or not, you know, our veterans gave their all to protect their countries. And so, we always try and acknowledge at least a few of them. And Keith, I do have to ask, though, is military voluntary in South Africa, or is it mandatory? I do not know the current state. When I was young, during the apartheid regime, there was conscription, and it was not voluntary, and it was two years. And much of that involved, given the civil wars, given the border wars that were going on at that time, much of it involved active duty. So when I was younger, the military service was a big deal. During the First World War, there were many volunteers for the British Army. And during the Second World War, the South Africans adopted a condition that their soldiers would serve only in Africa. So they saw service in places like Tanganyika, Southwest Africa, and Northern Africa, you know, Libya and the desert and so on. So, yes, there is a military tradition, and as I said, I believe that the army in South Africa today is a volunteer army, that there is not conscription, as they used to be. That makes sense. So we have Francis Herbert Lawrence Wickstein, who is a lieutenant in a Gringes flying column. Alexander Henry Eustis, Major General and Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire. Cecil Alexander Gordon Fitch, a second lieutenant, son of Sir Cecil and Lady Fitch. Now, he died of his wounds in France in 1918. We have Cecil James Byron Wood, who was an able seaman, and he died in sea in 1941. Gerald Lionel Southern Holland in South Africa. The second served during the Second Boer War was Truman Scouts. Lionel Herbert was Strange Holland, World War I with the Rhodesia Native Regiment. And then, Maurice Bonaventure Shaw, now he was in the Anglo-Boer War. He enlisted in 1899 and was discharged at his army quest in October 1902. And since he had not completed his full years of service, and it was supposed to be seven years in army service and five years in the army reserve, he had to pay 18 pounds to break his service. So, 18 pounds from 1902 would be the equivalent of 1990, 1995 pounds modern day. So, you know, that's a long time to serve, though, 12 years. And I guess he decided that was just not something he could fulfill. And then on WikiTree, we're all cousins by blood or marriage. So, there are currently 29,825,314 cousins on WikiTree alive or not. And, you know, more and more being connected every day. And, you know, here's where we talked earlier a little bit about just the different locations that everybody came from or traveled to. And so, by the end of the week, you know, we researched in Argentina, Australia, Barbados, Canada, England, Fiji, France, Germany, India, Ireland, Rhodesia, which is now Zimbabwe, Scotland, South Africa, the United States, and Wales. And I'm sure there are others, you know, but these are the locations we tracked throughout the week. And you said there were a lot that came from Germany, though, were there other countries that it was, you know, there were really big migrations from? Keith or? Well, obviously, the Dutch were the first settlers to come to South Africa. It was established as an outpost for the Dutch spice trade with the East, India, those kinds of places. So, but among the immigrants to South Africa before 1800, most of them, about 60% of them were actually German and not Dutch. And then they were Dutch, and then a lot of French, and then a number of countries from all over Europe, and including Jewish people from various countries. You can all write just refugees and so on. And then after 1810, 1820, many, many immigrants from the United Kingdom. And do you have questions about the presentation or Wiki Tree? If so, find us on Facebook, Twitter, or wikitree.com. Don't forget to like the video and subscribe to our channel. And while the image credits play, I'd like to take a minute to thank all of the incredible Wiki Treeers that helped us with this research in this challenge week. You know, once again, we have more than 69 people working on this challenge. And they found an amazing amount of discoveries. I mean, I, you know, had to pick a few out to show here. But there are just so many people that were added, thousands of people. And, you know, if you have the time, go out and look through these branches and see all of the interesting people that were done. They were a really super fun group to work with. And I'd like to especially thank Donna Bowman, who was the captain for the week. She did a really great job leading this successful week. And so Keith, tell us, did this week meet your expectations? I guess I was very, very presently surprised and exhilarated as to what happened. It exceeded my expectations, certainly. If I might just add a comment here, Mendy, that South African genealogy really concerns the genealogy of the people that have European ancestry, basically, because it's sort of an archipage. It's a hobby that community indulges in. But let's not forget about the fact that South Africa has a huge now indigenous population. And also the slave trade. So there are many, many South Africans who are descended from the slaves, who are predominantly from South Asia, India, Malaya, those kinds of places. And also even during the 1900s, many Indian laborers came to South Africa to work in the sugarcane fields as farm laborers. The genealogy is not well documented and not well researched. But the fact that it is so European-centric is, I guess, the way it has evolved to be. And we should be careful, though, to acknowledge the other population groups in South Africa. Right. And, you know, hopefully, I mean, hopefully that's part of what this challenge did and putting out those highlights real will do, is really, you know, expand the knowledge and bring more awareness about your genealogical society, but also about these South African profiles and these people that lived there and, you know, what their traditions were, what their lives were. And, you know, they'll learn more about doing the research so that they can go out and find their own, you know, South African ancestors. And I mean, there's people all over the globe that have ancestors that were in South Africa for some amount of time. And so, you know, we're really hoping that they'll be brave and follow this lead and, you know, go out and do that research. Now, Nigela had also brought up something, a question about the DNA. And we all say we did not do DNA comparisons with this. Sometimes when we do a challenge week, we have descendants that have provided their DNA results. And we have a couple of genetic genealogists and, you know, we'll take those and we'll look at them and do confirmations and follow statements. But, you know, the question is, do we follow, if that does happen, do we follow the DNA trail or the paper trail? And, you know, really, it's kind of a complex answer because there are times when the DNA matches and supports the paper trail. And so, of course, those are the easier ones, you know, when you can say, oh, this was the father of and the DNA also proves that. But we have found definitely more than once where the DNA steered us in another direction and said, you know, and when you're looking at a list of people that are definite DNA cousin matches and none of them are related to who you think your great-grandfather is, you know, that can lead to a shocking discovery in some branches. And, you know, we definitely have had that happen a few times. We don't publicize those and our highlights real for obvious reasons. You know, those were kind of talked to privately with the descendant. But, you know, the DNA doesn't lie.   I know I've had lots fall out of my closet over the years and, you know, found out some interesting things. But definitely, you know, you, the main part of the DNA stuff on the wiki tree, because we don't have people's actual DNA results uploaded. We don't have a way to say, you know, does my DNA show that I'm a cousin of the key? We just list kits so that you can go out to those other sites like Ancestry or Jedmatch or, you know, MyHeritage and really do an analysis on how much of the chromosomes match and things like that. You know, but we do try and make sure that that paper trail is as solid as it can be. And then you look at the DNA compared to that and see what it tells you. So always interesting, though, when we do get to do those DNA matches. So do we have any other questions or comments about the challenge week? I think one of the biggest problems of what I've found is that many people don't know who their grandparents are or were. And this is quite a problem going back further than that. Right, you know, and sometimes that's where the DNA does help, because sometimes you don't have a paper trail at all. And, you know, it takes a little bit longer to do it that way. But, you know, that's where it's really important for more people to go out and get their DNA tested, you know, so that cousins or possible cousins can make those comparisons. Because the more people that are out there testing, the more likely we are to start breaking down these brick walls and extending these family lines. I think that depends on who... I think we will wrap this up. Okay. Go ahead. No, go ahead. It depends who holds the record of the DNA, because there are different companies doing it. And it's only when they've got a big database that you can pick up that match. Right. Yeah. And, you know, the larger the pull is, of course, the more possible cousins you're going to find. And, you know, and then the other part, of course, is education. So, there's a lot of people that get their DNA tested and they're like, well, what good is this going to do? Because I don't know what to do with my DNA, you know? So, it tells me I'm 20% German. I mean, that doesn't really help me, you know, but there's enough people out there that are learning how to do those confirmations and those comparisons. And, you know, if you just get your DNA to where those kits are posted on places like WikiTree, then other people can come in that do have the knowledge and the experience and they can hopefully use that information to break down those brick walls. But, you know, still, I mean, when you're doing your genealogy, it still comes down to you want to develop that paper trail as strongly as possible.  That's all I need. It tells me the parents. It tells me the spouse. It tells me the kids. You know, that's not enough. You still want to look for every record there is out there for a person.  And, you know, I think during the challenge, it was really nice to see overall our researchers were compiling really comprehensive profiles. They were nice. They were nicely formatted. They were putting, you know, a lot of sources on them. And that's what we want to see on WikiTree. So there's a question. It's not whether it's correct or not. But, you know, but if someone is adopted, then there's a break in the biological record or whatever. You know, it's up to the family to accept that. And, you know, people are adopted and accepted into families. And so the genetic tree does not have to match the paper tree, as Mindy calls it. It's just the way it is. Right. Well, I think we will go ahead and wrap this up. I want to thank you, Keith, for helping so much during this week. You made yourself so available. You know, Mindy, I'd like to also thank you and to thank WikiTree. I learned a lot about doing searches and also how to format and apply sources and so on. So just watching other people create these profiles was a big help to me. And just one final point for WikiTree, for the genealogists out there, I would really suggest that you might consider using WikiTree to document your own genealogy research and put it out there. And what's wonderful about WikiTree is now you've built it into the greater South African tree, perhaps. But you're also leaving the attachment points for subsequent people to come in and say, oh, here's where I connect and I can work on my little branch of the tree. And so it's a very nice way to put your work out there and help other people in their collaboration on the larger trees. It's a very nice tool and I do recommend it. Great. Well, thank you. Yeah, thank you, Keith. And I do agree.  And I have so many people that come to me and say they're so pleasantly surprised at the amount of collaboration and how many people are helpful there on WikiTree. And, you know, so I love to see new people coming in. And we'll go ahead and wrap this up. It was a very successful week. And, you know, I really enjoyed it. And I hope that you guys join me for the next challenge.


and headline News Update. Good afternoon, folks. Steve Rhodes coming to you live from the shores of sunny Delray Beach, Florida. This is your 1 p.m. update and currently we got all the U.S. indices trading to the downside 2% plus or more.  That's down 72. The semis are three and three and a third percent down 113 points. You've got the spot bottleneck, which is up 30% right now. So, you know, as long as there's one day rate of change above plus 10%, you're going to have to anticipate. You don't have to, but you should anticipate a, at least a bounce, a reasonable size bounce. I'm not saying that's begun now. In fact, let's go take a look at our market update charts out here. We'll begin by taking a look at the ES mini up the left hand side. Now, there's a level of support that the ES mini should target. It is the bottom of its profile. Currently, we're trading at 43.23. The bottom of the weekly profile is 43.12. So, during the Traders Ed Show, we'll certainly go take a look at the intraday charts, see if there's anything lining up there to give us some type of signal of a bounce. But that's the support level inside the ES mini, 43.12. No guarantee that it holds, but that is the sport area. And it's coming at a time where we've got a 30% one day rate of change for the spot ball tunics. And you know, those of you that are listeners for a long time, you'll see the spot ball tunics trading out at 26.99, well above the 50 day expansion moving average. But again, that one day rate of change typically results in some type of overnight or morning bounce or bottom inside the S&P 500. The NQ, she's targeting the bottom of her weekly profile. And that's at the 14.802 level. U.S. Dollar Index, that's in the middle on the left hand side. It's made the one to one A to B equals CD pattern. Should it form a bearish reversal candle that would signal some type of at least sell the D point, some type of short term top of price pulling back at least to 90 to 90. Goldy locks out here has a key reversal session. Now key reversal session requires that a market be extended. Gold is you need to have a the prior days high and low exceeded it has and you didn't see a close one tick higher than the open. So what you're watching for that means that what gold needs to do to generate that bullish reversal candle is close at 1752.01 in order to pull that off. Silver, not the same pattern out here. Silver right now is trading below the bottom of its weekly profile suggesting that it wants lower price. Light tweet crude is at support. Natural gas, the same thing. You got to watch the level of $5.01. Your price goes below that look at $4.79. Folks, stay tuned. For the trader's edge, if you're off to start your Monday, do me a favor, have a magical one, and we'll look forward to seeing you soon.


Good morning, my name is Ricardo Chavarria, if that's a little hard then you can call me Richie, I just turn around when you say that. I work at a company called Neersoft and we do development work for companies in the United States. We're located in Mexico, we have three cities and thanks to them I'm here so I'm very proud to be here today. I'm from the city of Chihuahua, you might know something about us, you might know this dog. We're also a city and we're also a state with big mountains and trains and stuff so if you ever had the chance to go to a conference to Mexico or Chihuahua please come, you're very, you are all welcome. And well so I started doing Raspberry Pi programming around two or three years ago and I remember I bought one and then so I was like you know I can do all this kind of stuff and these projects and it's going to be so fun but I don't know I got bored and I just left it there for a while and you know after a few months I asked some of my friends what are you doing with your Raspberry Pi and most of them were like doing these pirate TV shows and stuff for their TV so I'm like hmm that's interesting so at that time I had a consultancy for local projects in Chihuahua most of them were like webpages and marketing stuff and something like that and so one of these companies was an architect and they were like you know what we need a web page because so we want a project and now we're appearing in all these magazines all over the country and we don't have a website so we're like okay and we also have no money for a server or anything and basically you know this has to be as cheap as possible and I'm like well I had an idea so I set up a Raspberry Pi with Phoenix and we built the website of Phoenix and it was just basically it and so we put it in a it is like a data center in a company there in Chihuahua I have a friend who is that you know the VP of engineering and I was like no one will notice if you put this little box there you know no one will they will know what it is so I just said just put this little box and that was it so and the next month the magazine came up and this this architectural firm got started having visits and stuff and they were like man the the website is so fast and I'm like oh yeah you know these huge servers in the cloud so I was very excited and and it was well before nerves was a thing it was a thing but it was really hard to set up and stuff so I didn't try it at that time and so why didn't I use them by now you know pretty well what nerves is so why didn't I use it well first because it was in an early stage so I couldn't use it yet and then later on when I got the chance to use it I I realized it was not meant for servers so I was like I couldn't use it now that I'm learning a lot of stuff of how you OTP and elixir works but at first I was like I also want to learn how to do this it on my own and so now this is this is what this this being like two years since then the website is still running they just I forgot about it really but they just called me last week and say hey can you renew our domain because we still needed that thing and I'm like oh yeah the domain I need to pay that so yeah so it's still running and I'm very happy with it and so then the next time I got I needed a problem like that I had some problems that I needed to solve and you know what I'm like I have a bunch of raspberry pies there and I don't want to give my money to Amazon yet I give him all the money anyway so these are the other options I had like okay this option is build-on docker and it has an image that you just put it on all of your raspberry pies and you put them up and they start seeing each other and they can balance each other and stuff and so it looked fun this is another option you might know and there's actually a video they have they have even like a list of things you should buy to make a cluster of raspberry pies and stuff and they even have images of SD card you just put in and you know it works this is very funny because when you start doing it they would ask you if you have more than 128 notes so I just look at my raspberry pies and like no no so those projects are great this is our great projects but they don't I could use any language and I wanted to use lexer you know I wanted to learn a lexer so I could use any language with all this project because they do all the balancing for you so this is how it looks you know when I started doing this that's my living room by the way don't tell my clients and so when I start doing this I remember I so I set it up I put up my network my local network and start and started just doing a raspian and set up a lexer and so I started doing some some you know experiments and trying to at least run an app run Phoenix start I start trying to compile on my machine and then try to make deploys and stuff so I let it left the running during my work and it just you know it's just blinking all day and that day I remember Yahoo was hacked and and some of the news said it was you know at this distributed attack with the Internet of Things and stuff and so my brother is the newscaster in my city so we you know when we were to dinner he told my mom before I got there like you know what I think Ricardo is doing this stuff you know so so when I got to my house my mom says me who are you hacking Yahoo and I'm like no mom you know no so so okay so I was like okay I got elixir an OTP in three Raspberry Pi set up so can I how can I make them work for me as the other projects let him so okay this is my new problem that I have in Mexico we are very complicated for everything apparently and our invoicing system has is it's a way way complicated process where it's a neck the the real invoice you make that you need to present taxes and stuff if you want to have a if you want to present expenses all your invoices have to be an XML signed by the person that sold it to you and then side by the government they signed it and then you get it so the funny thing is most people don't care about the XML they just want a PDF you know they don't want they don't want to just they don't want something normal and stuff so right now I'm working on a project that what we want is to download all the XMLs the government once you make all this process the government has all the XMLs so in case someone doesn't send you the XML you don't have to worry it's there it's in the cloud so you download you download all the XMLs and once you have them you have all the information to build a PDF and so make something that humans can read and and that's that's what most people want so the problem is a lot of companies like huge manufacturing companies they receive a lot of XMLs like every day they receive hundreds or even thousands a day because all the time they are buying and selling all their the needs for the factory to work so I'm building a system that will download all your XMLs and generate PDFs and then you'll have it handy and then you just have to log in and you have them there this process will take I mean for it before it to complete it takes like 72 hours so it's not a really critical system and I mean if it goes for an hour no one will notice because it can take up to 72 hours to complete so what I started doing is doing this in an elixir in elixir application and generate them there so I was like all right let's do it in my machine it's really simple you know I just just open another another tab in my terminal and I have two nodes and that's it so to run local I just I just make a loop and start to send it to the other node the work and that's how I know it's you know it's working and and that's it so it looks really simple and this is what you will find on all the books and actually I look at my program in elixir book for this and what you need to do is just send a signal and send which which function you want to execute in the other node and then it'll return you the the result it looks so simple right well as soon as you don't you're not in your local machine it gets a little bit crazy so this is a code to run on nodes so the first thing you'll notice is that when I call notespan I had to call the whole name of the node but turns out elixir doesn't like IP addresses that much so it's better if you if you run it on a or a name you give it a name and then you set it up on your ETC ETC names so so that's the first thing that's different and so what I did is just set up my three Raspberry Pi's in my living room and I started writing and I started writing this this process so I do the same thing it's just a loop but then I start sending it to one of each so if you see that chunk is just to send three of them to each of them and and that's it as you can see as you can see there is the only thing I just I just wanted to show here is that all of my Raspberry Pi's are a hundred percent so that means the work is being distributed along all the Raspberry Pi's and it's not my laptop that's doing the work so I'm was very happy at the point so why did I learn well I need to mess with my ETC host file to give them a name because as soon as you're outside your local laptop everything you do with with OTP nodes starts to you know they want to have a name for that so so I change my ETC host and then that's my command for for starting my nodes all of them have to have an S name in this case you know laptop or Raspberry Pi one two and three and then you have to give it a cookie which is like a passcode so that they recognize each other and then I start so I was running this on a Chromebook and the Chromebook took 20 seconds to finish my 10 loop 10 times loop and when I started using just one node just so just the Raspberry Pi and then one one and the laptop it started to go down to 30 seconds and then when I just to went down to seven seconds when it's three five seconds so I'm like this is working I'm I'm actually you know making distributed work I'm a Rails developer so this is very very interesting this is a whole new world so all right and then I'm like okay but I need to do the same thing with Phoenix and it turns out you can configure Phoenix to do this but you'll need this configuration I mean this is the one I found that work this is actually airline configuration so to find this I had a kind of like a hard time because I I didn't exactly what knew what to ask for like so well what this is saying is that I need these nodes and they are optional so what that basically means is that your application is going to boot and then it will start looking for these nodes and if they are not there well too bad and it will start anyway you can make them to be not optional so that way if they're not there it will turn it will turn off as soon as they don't find it and I give it a 10 second time time out because that's me turn them and turn them on you know I have 10 seconds before I turn on one so it's enough and it's great after after a couple of tries same thing I had to mess up with all the etc host in the Raspberry Pi's now because they have to see each other and and now when I when I get to one of the consoles in one of the Raspberry Pi's I can see the other two nodes and I can send them work now they can see each other so that was very very very happy about it so and as you can see you can also so now that I have it all my three nodes they have a web page I need that because the actual system is built in Rails and it's what the clients will see but all the work is going to be doing in the background with this elixir application and then they are they'll just see their downloaded files so I needed Phoenix because I needed a small web API just to send the server new XML to download once I know they they're there and so I see my Raspberry Pi is working so what do you change well the etc host files has to be changed in all of the hosts we mean all of the machines all of the Raspberry Pi's the command is a little bit different because now that I'm sending a airline application configuration then I need to send that when I start the process and if I need to balance the HTTP load I use HAProxies to to balance the HTTP load any that too I don't think I'm gonna use that in production because it's not gonna be seen directly by any client it's gonna be all in the background downloading XMLs and turning them to PDFs and so it was very fun so in conclusion if you want to do embedded development please use nerves don't get into trouble like me and the other thing is that well everything that I used actually you can use it in Amazon or any kind of server doesn't have to be a Raspberry Pi actually and that was fun to know like because at first I didn't know how powerful elixir was and what parts of the OTP I'm using you you will hear it a lot that that you know they say elixir is built to be distributed all the OTP is awesome and it's way back and you know but this time I was like I want to learn it I would really want to learn it and I really want to know what how it works and it was a very fun experience and just to let you know this system is going live on April so after that I will have more fun of using Raspberry Pi as servers and don't tell my clients I don't think they will able to see this recording so it will be our secret and I think that I will take questions and thank you


Ǐ Ǐ 香港  Deadpool Ṭ  undertaking  canonical ǎ Ǐ ǎ  abuses loo  nuevas氎  considering health security it'll take some time.


Alaykum, what's happening my sisters and bros. Let me highlight you real slow and ask Allah to forgive your woe and remove your woe and grant You similar cold hard dough So you can glow while watching episode sace of this show that's six in Spanish if you already didn't know Which a favorite I meet go Ahmed Ali yo was I too fast for y'all you want me to repeat in slow mo But I can't because we're trying to go and see what's trending in today's world. Let's roll So we are live in the holy city of Karbala that freestyle if you guys want to download that it's available on iTunes but We are live in the holy city of Karbala one second. Asalaamu Alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh The news for today is a bit saddening The son of grad Ayatollah say say sadiq ashirazi has been Arrested by Iranian authority the supreme religious authority and his son were in a car And as they were driving two cars from the Iranian government pull up drag him out and as they were dragging him out His turban fell they pushed him to assault on him. Now. Shirazi followers are holding protests around Iraq and around countries as well to show Their disapproval of what happened Grand Ayatollah son now Social media campaigns are also being launched demanding that Sayed Hussain should be released ASAP we ask Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala and everyone to join hands-in-hand You know to end this because you know, honestly, the poor guy was walking around with his dad or in the car with his dad Now, why do you got a room in the guy's day? But anyways, you know, we prayed to Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala for his Hasten of his release. Now What else do we have for you today that's trending in the world? We all love the good old coke We don't mean that, you know, the coke coke coke cola right there now coca-cola This coke not the other coke not the stuff you sniff the stuff you drink anyways but yeah, so coca-cola in Japan they're trying to launch a alcohol virgin of coca-cola In the same bottle that I just showed you right now. So in this in this bottle, they're trying to release alcohol in coke with three to eight percent of Coca-cola with three to eight percent alcohol in the coke and Honestly, the senior coke executive in Japan. He says This move was a modest experiment For a specific slice of our market Last time I checked. I don't know what kind of modesty is, you know getting drunk I don't I don't remember anywhere that he'll bait say modesty and tells you being drunk But anyways from now on I guess we can't buy coke. This is the last bottle I'm buying for for tonight unless They revoked up, but anyways, let's go check out. What's what today's topic is College university school Education some of us enjoy it others not so much some of us take it all the way others They Count down to the last second and can't wait to get over with it Some just drop out basically after high school or within the first years of the university or college Now we all know that elementary teaches us the normal basics Middle school takes it a step higher than we have high school prepares us for college and then you have college Now in college you become a freshman first year, you know slack off parties here and there Or the stuff for a lot no parties except for halal parties Of course, you know Farhad the birth of the imams of the bayt alayhim the salam, but you know No, no haram parties.  Anyways, we'll get to touch it We'll talk about that now one thing for sure college isn't free I ever told you college was free it ain't and you know, some people say this financial aid, but not everyone qualifies for that see and Financial aid, they don't just give you money like that It's a loan.   Is college education worth it? What makes you so sure that you can actually be successful after graduation and honestly Sometimes, you know, I hide that as well when I was in university, you know sometimes I sat because you know what when you look at the tuition fees and The requirements and the stuff you got to pay for university you sometimes think if you just sit there Could you just take the money and spend it and like invest in the company create a company make something because the big bucks that I'm gonna mention soon They actually shocked me. I never knew I actually had to spend that much just to go through university Or you know, we have that dream, you know once we graduate We're gonna get hired in in the best firm and get the nice watch that I have on right now You know in a fresh ring fresh two rings that you have right now, you know Education college and all that gets you fresh stuff, but did they actually I don't know but we'll get to see a Lot of people claim that college graduates have a higher employment rates bigger salaries and more work benefits than high school dropout or high school graduates now They see that college graduates also have better social skill longer lives have healthier children and have the potential to becoming successful in life, however on the other hand We have those who say That you know when you graduate you're gonna have a lot of debt on your back and trust me when I say a lot of debt We're gonna come in to know what kind of debts are gonna be on our back Now a lot of people also say that you don't have to be Successful in order to become wealthy You know or you don't have to you know finish University Sorry, you don't have to finish college in order to become successful We all know that Bill Gates is a Harvard dropout and you know, he's ninety two point five billion dollars rich This guy is filthy rich ninety two point five billion dollars and this guy was a Harvard dropout He didn't finish university or college. He just dropped out and makes crazy money now But which side are you on are you on the side that says well? A college education is very good.  Why waste my money and all those good good stuff, you know and and end up working at McDonald's KFC or Subway or Timmy's or Chuck E cheese or wherever, you know, but Do let us know call on the WhatsApp number shown below right now Plus nine six four seven seven four oh sixty seven eighteen thirty six that's plus nine six four seventy seven four oh six seven eighteen Thirty six or you can send us a message straight on that same number or you can go and comment on our live Facebook feed at Imam Hussein three TV. You can also follow us on Instagram on Facebook at Lnt show now there was a lot of ads and a lot of following a lot of comments Let's hope all of those social media will get you and will you know motivate you to call in and let us know what you think About today's topic. Now today's question is very easy, you know, everyone had to go through Education whether elementary whether high school whether middle school or high school whether college or university and Trust me when I say Big bucks are paid towards universities big bucks But let's go into a very short break and then we'll come back very quick to talk about The fees and all the good stuff that you've got to pay for in university. Hey, we're good. We're good. We're good Yeah, that was a nice toss anyways I forgot to tell you guys if you guys like the freestyle at the beginning you can comment below to let me know Where you guys think anyways, yeah, so To encourage you guys to call there's a few facts that a lot of people don't actually know About college fees and university fees and the questions right there is college education worth it Call right now at the number shown below or comment or send us a question at the same number To let us know what you think now the United States is the most most popular destination For foreign students international students But you got to hold your horses because honestly before you go and book your tickets for the next summer in your chin chin To register your classes you got to know facts on fees and making up your mind whether you actually want to spend that much money and Trust me when I say it doesn't come cheap as a matter of fact the US is among the most expensive countries for education college education now H s Hsbc's 2017 2017 report the value of education. It says I call higher and higher the US again emerged as a top choice for parents considering University abroad for their children But also it's the most expensive. It's one of the most expensive with parents contributing to an average of Let me get a drum roll before I talk about the big bucks 25 G's You got to spend 25 G's of your money in order and that's per year That's that's not in like two years or three years or four years. That's one year now University or college is Four years depending on your major or minor. So it's it's four years 25 G's in public universities and private universities That's almost 50 grand 50 G's $50,000 So in four years, that's a hundred grand if you're paying up public universities private universities That's 200 grand add another hundred for you know, the extra two years that you maybe you slacked off or you need extra classes or that stuff $300,000 Now $300,000 you can buy a huge house you can buy a nice car You can open up a business invest in a business and you make a lot of money, but That goes back to your decision because at the end of the day you have to choose Whether Education is benefiting you or it's not is it worth it for you? Is it worth it for you to spend almost a hundred K? Each year. Oh, sorry 24 So 25 K a year over the four year span A hundred K but we do have a voice note that just came in from Mahmood. Where's Mahmood from and what did he say? My name is Mahmood from New York. I think College education is in truly worth it because you spend so many years and so much money Yet you don't get to work in the field you graduate from but on the other hand I think it depends on the faculty apply for and the graduate from like Health sciences Engineering or art sciences, but all in all you're gonna graduate with the crazy debts on your back And then the issue of marriage comes up No one is good. No one is gonna give his daughter in marriage if you have $100,000 plus That's Thank you Well, that's well said I mean, I don't I don't want to you know give credit to everyone has their own opinion But honestly, he made a valid point You know not saying that education isn't worth it a college education is one of the most important things out there But at the same time, you know, he made a valid point now the expenses and the debts after Education after college education, you know, you're looking at as as Mahmood from New York said You're looking at what a hundred K of debt and you got to pay that and honestly That just made marriage a lot harder. Trust me when I say that marriage is a lot harder when you have a hundred K in debt now a lot of people think that 25 K is We're excluding the the tuition or the accommodation or the transportation or the books or the supplies I'll break it down for you tuition Is a part of the 25 K and it depends if you're from that state You're considered a Student that pays that's not like an international student or a student out of states But you're considered and you have a lower fee tuition fee for the person that for the people coming from outer states Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, that actually makes a lot of sense right there. That picture makes a lot of sense that gown, you know, and you know, oh all those benches, you know the Good old the good old dough. Anyways, so basically For the people that are coming from outside of the state outside the country, they're almost paying double the amount now you have tuition fees and then after that you have Your books and trust me when I say one of the things that killed me in university were books Those were expensive, you know, thank God that the books were resold when I went to second year You know, you sell them to the first years and you know, you're not getting the same amount that you paid for But I remember paying almost each year first year I paid almost nine hundred to almost eleven hundred dollars worth of books and then second year the same amount I ended up sending all my books for $100, but you know and that right there alone You see that the huge margin that people lost so you have $1,200 they say that there's an average of 1,200 $1,250 at public colleges and $1,220 for book supplies in private colleges now We do remind the viewers to call in and answer that question is college education Worth it Do you think that you need to spend that much money in order to be successful or can you spend that one that money somewhere else and Be as successful number the number you should call is Plus nine six four Seven seven four oh six seven eight thirty six Now if you do see me laughing Randomly, I don't think that I'm going mad or crazy, you know the guys in the control room Do say hilarious stuff and hilarious comments based on what I say now going down the list After books and after supplies you have housing accommodation This number is pretty huge and now actually it looks pretty nice That's actually pretty nice Was that like a concept room for universities and I'm kidding that universities that have that but in 2017 to 2018 school year research says that ten thousand eight hundred at public schools to twelve thousand two hundred and ten dollars in private schools, so public schools ten grand eight hundred Private schools twelve grand two hundred and ten dollars. We do have a call coming in right now We have a call from Muhammad Musa from Michigan Salamun alaykum welcome to the show welcome to hashtag L and T Ossam alaikum warahmatullah to pleasure to discuss with you this really controversial and also Annoying topic. Oh annoying topic. Okay, so tonight's question. You probably already know it is college education worth it What do you think? Personally, I believe it's it's worth the effort. It's worth the initiative of trying to gain and seek knowledge I mean if you can find an opportunity to do that and go ahead but currently with the You know the current way colleges and institutions and private sectors work and Process how they take in their students and what they Demand and requirements and it becomes a headache. I know I know an individual that recently graduated from Merckless school here in Doa Vem and Arbor and he's two hundred thousand dollars in debt He owes that much And so I mean he told me he was happy to graduate, but it was a bittersweet Situation, I mean now he owes to on a pay But he also has to you know He's he enjoys the idea that he finished graduating by what cost at what expense you know you're now indebted so much that Even until Imam Mehdi comes out, you'll still have to be paying. I mean, it's it's ridiculous I Like that. So I'm ready reappears. You got to pay those debts back. Hopefully when he comes you know You can pay that for us, but yeah, thank you very much for joining the live show tonight for brother Muhammad Musa Wefam Michigan USA and Honestly a very good point that he mentioned right there is tuition fees are so expensive Nowadays and honestly When you go to research you find that you know in the early 2000s late in 1900s when college students used to graduate Yeah, guys when college students used to graduate Firms and companies used to you know have fights over the students because they need Those that manpower in their companies and in their firms now there's an overflow of graduates Honestly when I say I know my friends who've worked and still work at Tim Hortons in Canada Work at KFC work at sushi places Work at McDonald's KFC and you name it Boston Pizza one of the best but you know not You are making money a hundred percent, but you spent so much money and you worked so hard those four years Yet you're in debt Is that worth it? Let me know Let us know if that's worth it All right, but if we go down the list even more We got The expenses also that say from last year They count clothing Transportation personal items entertainment, etc all of them depending on where you're going to private or public private $2,730 at private colleges 3,270 public universities, but before we continue and look at the big bucks that we spending that I spent This is I'm yeah, I'm just I'm just in awe Of my pinkie ring and you know my fresh wash But yes, we do have dr. Yeah, cut the key. Okay, this guy this professor was actually my This man was my professor at McMaster University. So yes, what does he have to say? I said to Kim I've been asked to talk about college education A wise man was once asked why he loved his teachers more than his parents He said his parents brought him from the skies to the earth But the teacher took him from the earth to the sky in other words education Not only educates us, but he informs us and more importantly nourishes us nourishes the soul It is very important for us to understand the significance of college education Because without education then we feel empty. We feel sometimes unable to communicate Of course college education will greatly help us in our pursuit of our career My advice to anybody who wants to go for education is this any kind of education? You should pursue what your passion is what you enjoy studying what you enjoy? Reading that way your education will help you and you will actually look forward to it You will not hate studying. You will enjoy it. So that's the first point Secondly make sure that that education is towards a further goal that you have in mind In other words, you should decide what you would like to become Of course, sometimes people change their minds and that is perfectly okay But have a reasonable idea of what you would like to pursue and then structure your education accordingly There is another point about education that I would like to stress Which is that many a time without education Especially in this world We are not able to connect with people to communicate and education will not only help us communicate But broaden our horizons make us more tolerant make us able to connect with others and more importantly make us better human beings because Education in today's world especially is not only a matter of a degree or a certificate But more importantly is about humanity many a time. I feel that we become less human less Islamic in many ways because we do not have the right perspective on things Thank you very much. Thank you very much professor Liaqa Takim. I felt like I was sitting in your class again You know that was so long But very very informative at the same time your classes Were nice. We do we do miss you doctor Takim. Hopefully we see you again very soon Now when we look at the financial side, I think we have a couple of more minutes left We have five minutes left to the end of the show But when you look at the financial side of education and when we go to look at the other sides of Education now we had a few callers and a few voice notes saying Saying that it depends on how you structure doctor Takim said it depends on how you structure Your vision in education if you structure it in a way where motivate yourself Then you will actually have fun in university and trust me, you know I went through, you know difficult times when I say difficult times, you know you through university I thought I was gonna make it but alhamdulillah. I mean things worked out to the best You know and at the end of the day You just have to motivate yourself and continue motivating yourself because honestly one of the things that we need is Motivation but with huge numbers like 25k. That's not motivating yourself, bro That's that's just you know throwing away your money, you know Mohammed Hussain Ahmed Musawi He said from Michigan He said that his friend graduated from medicine school and he's in two thousand two hundred thousand dollars worth of debt Now we all know that doctors make a fortune drive nice cars and have a nice house He'll pay that money back, but in over how many years, you know, and you know, how long will financial aid last? For people that maybe cannot pay back the universities once I was watching a view I was watching a video and before I do mention a video do call in at the number shown below and Answer the question or send us a question send the question Cush, you know, you know in Arabic means what in English? All right Send us a message on WhatsApp Is college education worth it? What do you think now back to the video once I saw I actually saw a video You can go on YouTube and check this out a lady She finished university She finished college in the US working three jobs Just to pay off her tuition fee three years. She worked after university. She worked. I think KFC or somewhere She was washing dishes and then she went somewhere else to As a cashier and then somewhere else to you know to work Something else and then She has to work three jobs just to pay that now is that the fault of tuition or is that the fault of The economy we don't really know and I don't want to come to a conclusion because this show Will leave the conclusion till the end because This segment is towards you you have to let me know what you think about college education All right So we'll go into a very short break. Let me just you know drink some water. I'm really thirsty But let me let's just go to a short break and we'll be back very shortly Yeah, welcome back Hope you inshallah enjoyed that short report with hashtag and T But we are getting another voice voice. No, we're getting a phone call. Yes. Salamu alaikum Hello, Salamu alaikum No, but I'm not this topic is really exhausting and I'm using at the same time Can you can we get your name and where you're from? But to from the essay But to the fun USA, okay, but to from USA. So this topic is exhausting you Yeah, and it's kind of controversial at the same time. Okay Let us know why I mean education is necessary. But at the same time, it's all that necessary I mean if we're looking for, you know, medical purposes engineering Then yeah, you need that education But at the same time, it's gonna get to death But then again, you have, you know, jobs and Belgates who didn't you know complete their education look at, you know The businesses that they started and the money that they have And then we have the problem was if you don't complete your education for men, you know Marriage a lot of the families Won't give their daughters because That's proposing hasn't completed their education. Yes. Yes Now some some of it's really controversial It is it is it is I I agree with you and I agree with everyone that does call him because honestly everyone has their own opinion and One of the things that you mentioned people won't give their daughters away in marriage when you're in debt That's the bottom line Yeah Yes, thank you very much for joining our show tonight sister, but to from the US. Thank you very much now Let's go back to see what we have talked about and where we reached right now So we talked about tuition fees including your accommodation your food your transportation your books public universities You're looking at 25 grand 25 thousand dollars 25 G's whatever you want to call them. You're still paying 25 thousand dollars You're still being paying big bucks private universities apply private colleges Depending if you're a state students or a foreign or international student You're looking at fifty thousand dollars and I'm not here, you know But to have said that this topic is exhausting. Trust me. I've been there Done that been there done that, you know But at the same time we have to look at ourselves Is it worth it at the end of the day? I think it's worth it because if we were to look at How I'll beta alaym salam looked at education We would be very motivated and we have to be motivated by this because honestly If you have a passion towards something as professor Taqeem said if you have a passion towards something that should that by itself should motivate you To make money to be successful and we keep on going back to money because money is Important in that anyways So if you're passionate about medical school You won't let anything stop if you're passionate about business You won't let anything stop if you're passionate about economics if you're passionate about arts if you're passionate about social sciences you know therapy I psychiatrist, you know, I say in psychology wherever whatever Whatever you're passionate about Keep that in your mind and motive you keep on reminding yourself, you know There's the app that you know every day you put in a quote or you put a set of quotes I can't remember what the app is.  I don't know how it does that but a lot of people says it does work So depending on your mood, it just gives you quotes to keep on motivating you And honestly, you need motivation when you're going through university University is a lot of stress, but that's why The percentage of acceptance is very high and a lot of money is paid towards it. So, you know that When you go through university, you've paid so much money in order to get that diploma or to get that bachelor's degree So it all goes down to you and your decision and how you motivate yourself and how passionate are you towards your goals Now Imam alayhi salam. He says seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave, I Just want to repeat that for a second seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave Now we do have a WhatsApp message that just came in and I want I want to comment on this Now we have Nargis from the UK. She says my brother holds a bachelor's in psychology and he's currently unemployed in this case I Don't think college education is worth it. Why so much negativity? Wow, okay Not not to Nargis. Thank you very much for you know sending in the questions But everyone is saying college education sometimes is it worth it because of the stuff that you have to pay for but Trust me when I say If you're passionate about it If you're passionate about it, then you can motivate yourself and you will make that dough you will make that That that money that mula. We do have one last WhatsApp message Mustafa from Netherlands. He says college graduates are more productive as members of Society So let me let me just repeat that College graduates are more productive as members of society hence resulting in lower crime rates and better citizenship For more educated people, okay, okay, so that's a Way to look at it lower crime rates if you're a graduate, you know and and sometimes This is actually true because one of my friends. I ran into him a few years ago. He graduated. He's done This guy is high on weed or he drinks or something So I asked him like what's going on boy? You look you look down.  I didn't be thought of al-Islam the commander of the faithful He says seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave and this makes perfect sense because honestly, it's not It's it's out of our hands You know walk with someone for two weeks less ten days walk with someone for ten days.  So right there. You're actually getting a bit of knowledge or you're getting some habits, okay? From the cradle from the cradle you learn how to be compassionate from your mother and from your father depending if they're Compassionate and they're passionate towards you and showing you love and mercy and then when you go through education That right there you're seeking the knowledge that you need and then to the grave. That's it Life is done. So I need a lot of al-Islam said it very beautifully And no one could have said it better than I'm a time he says seek knowledge from the cradle to the graves So basically I advise all the viewers and my brothers and my sisters to you know continue Educating yourself and continue paying those fees and continue paying those bucks cuz You can have to pay it back anyways anyways. Yeah, all right. Thank you very much for tuning in stay tuned for the next episode Waslamu alaykum and rahmatullahi wabarakatuh