Great pleasure to introduce a gentleman I last saw with a finisher's medal around his neck from the London Marathon. Mr. Gunnar Menzel. So Gunnar is the Chief Technology and Innovation Officer for North and Central Europe for Capgemini.  In addition, Gunnar is part of the main editorial board for Capgemini's techno vision framework. As certified master architect and IAF master architect, he's a member of Capgemini's Global Architecture Board and as a senior leader within Capgemini's Global Architecture community, he's playing a key role in setting the direction of the architecture profession across the group, something we care greatly about at the open group too. And he's also responsible for the development of future talent. Born in Germany, Gunnar now lives with his family in Greater Manchester, United Kingdom. So a warm virtual welcome from the open group please for Gunnar Menzel. Over to you, Gunnar. Thanks Steve. Yeah, indeed. I remember well in London, but I overrided this couple of years ago now, so of course this should have been physical, so unfortunately we have to revert back to virtual, but I think we all understand why and we'll appreciate that. Now, first question first, I hope you can see my screen. Yes, absolutely we can. Wonderful, wonderful. Right, so I'm going to take you, or I'm going to focus on over the next 20, 25 minutes on a particular subject. So Céline just said the scene in terms of sustainability, walking you through what AXA is doing in terms of sustainability. And I wanted to hone, I wanted to focus on one particular aspect of that. And of course when we talk about sustainability, sustainability is a wide subject. My focus for the next 20 minutes, 25 minutes, it's really about the carbon side of ICT sustainability. First of all, I mean, you don't really have to drive a lot of context. Again, as was mentioned before, if you look at the impact, the environmental impact that happened over the last, just the last two years, you know, there's clearly a call for action for us. If you look at the catastrophic floods that we had in Germany in 2020, if you look at the incidents and the fires, but also the floodings that happened all over the world last year, there's clearly kind of a call to action for society to do something about. And particularly when you look at the carbon footprint impacts, so the cause and effect of these natural disasters, then clearly carbon is a key factor in climate change. You may say, well, with COVID, we didn't travel and we have reduced our carbon footprint. Whilst that is true, you're seeing indications currently, and these are the figures that I had, I think the latest one from end of 2020, early 2021, I think it was when you see the levels of carbon going back to 50% above industrial revolutions are certainly an indicator that we're still increasing. Now you may say, well, okay, what has it all got to do with ICT? Celine also mentioned before, and I'm just going to note on these, that we also in the IT industry have a responsibility, 3% to 4% of carbon contribution or CO2 contribution globally is driven by ICT. So all of IT globally together, as was mentioned, is on par with aviation fuel in 2018. So all planes flying throughout the air or in the world before COVID, same kind of CO2 footprint that they had created. If you were to look at it from an electricity consumption perspective, then if you were to put all IT into our country, it would be the third largest electricity consumer in the world. So quite significant, because it's about 10% of all electricity is currently consumed by IT. Another way of seeing this, I mean, another perspective on the impact or the unintended consequences of ICT is there was a video that was released in 2016, I think, and it hit 5 billion views, the first video that hit 5 billion views on YouTube, and somebody calculated that 5 billion views on YouTube consumed the same amount of electricity as 40,000 US households in a whole year. Now you and I, if you watch something on YouTube, I don't think we really consider the implications or the unintended consequences of IT. You can imagine, of course, we all know there is quite a number of hops that connect me to you throughout the world with using this Webex platform, for instance, and I don't know what our CO2 footprint is using this platform virtually. So there are some unintended consequences that IT is creating. And of course, depending on which country you are, as again, as Srin has mentioned, there's a certain carbon footprint to that, of course. I said for IT consumes about 10% of all electricity worldwide. Now with COVID and with the shift of work to more virtual, you see some indications that that will even further increase. So prediction currently is that by 2030, all of IT globally would maybe consume 20% of all electricity. And again, of course, if the energy mix of that 20% is more carbon heavy, so for instance, coal or gas, then of course, that will have direct consequences because it would pollute or will contribute towards the greenhouse gas emissions. Now, but all is not so bad because of course, IT also has a huge part of play to help us to address our carbon footprint. So the UN has calculated that IT or ICT together actually has the potential to cut 10 times as much as it omits. So it could cut out 20% of all carbon globally, all of it by using IT, for instance, to reduce transport or to use IT to cut out certain activities or to be more efficient, more effective. And UN, if you're interested, they're quite interesting because the sustainability development goals have been articulated by the UN, of course, COP is the key subject here. And again, IT has a big part of play to support us addressing our global carbon footprint. But still, the fact remains that we have an obligation to address our impact from an IT's perspective, that 3%, which might be 6% if we don't do anything by 2030. Now, you could look at, so the question is, how do I or how do we address our carbon footprint? Now, there are various different viewpoints, a very different perspective. The presentation you just heard before is a solution angle. So it kind of drives into kind of, you know, the elements that you can apply very successfully as you heard, an access case to addressing some of these subjects. But there are three key areas that you could have a look at from an ICT's perspective. First, the approach you're taking to creating solutions. Second, the actual solutions of products, again, some of them were mentioned before.  So there are three different areas you can have a look at, or you can focus on when you're addressing reduction in IT or reduction in CO2 or carbon footprint in ICT. And as I mentioned, I'm just going to focus on the carbon side in terms of IT or ICT. And for my short presentation now, I can't unfortunately cover the entire scope, otherwise, you know, why 25 minutes will maybe be a bit longer. But I thought maybe for this short slot, it might be interesting to dive into the art or the approach you're taking to creating a more sustainable solution. Just as a side info, I was working for a public sector organization here in the UK in 2010, so this is now 12 years ago. And I led the entire transformation of all of the infrastructure in the application landscape. So it's about 150 applications, about 2500 servers. And it was not just to re-host and re-platform, so to address technical debt. And it was also a very, very hard target on CO2 emissions and how to target to reduce the entire CO2 emissions of all of IT by 50%. And some of the elements that you see in here is also the approaches or the tools that ISTRA we use in Capgeminar to helping us to do that with clients. From an architecture perspective, I might add. So how do you architect solutions that have sustainability embedded? Again, part of this discussion was already kind of mentioned in the previous presentation, but they want to kind of dive a bit more in detail the hows. How do you actually do this? Not what are the solutions, what are not the technologies, but what is the approach we're taking to be more sustainable? What are the steps that we need to do? We, as architects, we need to do when we are designing solutions that become or have to be more sustainable. Again, with this carbon footprint or carbon focus in mind. Well, first of all, is define clearly what does actually sustainability mean and have some clear related principles and targets. So clear focus first is be really clear with what do you mean by sustainability? So when I say do you, I mean the organization, again, as I mentioned before, have a very clear specification and clear support top-down by having a clear articulation of the intent, the objectives and the purpose, for instance, and the vision maybe. I could be saying we want to reduce our carbon by 50% by 80%. We want to be net neutral by X, Y and Z. So there will be or there might be certain objectives that we need again from the architecture perspective to define before you start changing or before you start designing. Then, and this may be quite obvious, but still we believe and I believe really important, you have to make sure the sustainability is part and parcel of your design process. So this is when you are designing a solution, even a cloud solution or a COTS product or you're implementing a commercial off-the-shelf product or you're moving to a public cloud provider, still you have to make sure that sustainability has to be part of your solution design process. How you do that, I'll show you or give some indications. Again, I can't explain you in detail, of course, but I'll give you some indication to how we see that in capture and how you could develop that. Then another practical aspect, again, from an architecture perspective, from a practitioner perspective, is how do you make sure that sustainability is included? It comes also from practical experience when I was working for this public sector organization. You have to balance, value for money, agility, compliance, as well as sustainability. Sometimes sustainability or carbon footprint impact, for instance, can be or can be seen as more a secondary objective or a secondary focus area, but if you really want to make an impact from a sustainability perspective, you have to balance those characteristics at the same time and ideally have those characteristics, particularly when you're making decisions around options, are on the same level. Again, I'll spend a slide or two on explaining or providing some insights of what it could look like, not to say that this is the entire answer, of course. And last but not least, particularly when you're executing as an architect, and here I mean the activity of architecting a solution. So when you go through your solution lifecycle, you have to really make sure you're applying a real design thinking approach, design thinking approach, meaning take into account different stakeholders, balance various different options, making sure people are aware of the positives, but also the negatives. Again, as before you heard, there are solutions that can significantly reduce the carbon of an organization. Think about using AI or reducing the amount of travel, but you still require an AI tool. You may know that AI itself need a lot of training to be operational. That training in a pre-production environment could cost quite a lot of electricity. And if that electricity is coming from sustainable sources like coal or gas as an example, there could be a carbon footprint. So you have to have a view on these different characteristics and balance them, but also apply a design thinking approach to your design activity or your architecting activity. Now, in Capgemini, as you heard, we have about 14,000 architects globally, and it's part and parcel to the daily work of an architect today to consider sustainability as a key aspect. And you heard this in the introduction when Steve introduced my role. We have this integrated architecture framework. If you've been with Open Group for a while, you know about IAF, because we also use IAF as a content framework to drive Torgav, or to support Torgav, Torgav9. And we still develop IAF also as in Capgemini as our integrated architecture framework. And IAF is kind of our bedrock when it comes to making sure we are delivering, we're designing an architecture that is valid for money that delivers the non-functional characteristics. And what we realized, sorry, what we've done, I think it was middle of 2020, if I'm not mistaken, to release our latest version of IAF as version six, and we call it the sustainability addition. So for us in Capgemini, sustainability is at the heart of a solutioning process, so of a architected design activity, because as you can see, year sustainability is on par with security or the governance. So we see this as a perspective on the entire solution. So security is not something that we see as an outside activity, or a separate to infrastructure or separate to governance. And I talked about this on par, so making sure when you're making design decisions, moving, for instance, from logical to physical, that you're considering all the aspects, like, for instance, requirements, functional requirements, but also the non-functional characteristics. And this is, of course, the key element when you're designing these solutions and making sure that you're taking into account all the characteristics of a solution. IAF helps us to articulate the entire solution. It defines, as a framework, content framework, so it defines which artifacts do you need to create a solution, coherent and complete solution. And we pre-coded the artifacts next to the standard artifacts you would expect from an architecture perspective, also within IAF. I just pulled out some of the key elements. So we coded or pre-coded artifacts, a meta model of artifacts behind the various different abstraction levels, abstraction level for us is the why, the what, the how, and the with what. And we encoded the artifacts that you would typically develop or deliver within these activities. Now, as I mentioned, this here wasn't intended to give you an answer to this for a solution. It was intended as a, this short presentation was intended to provide some insights on the how, on how to design, how to design solutions that are considering sustainability next to other aspects like functional requirements, but also cost value for money or compliance. Now, I mentioned before, the four areas, how do you actually do it? I mentioned, you know, make sure that you have a framework, also articulate it, make sure that you apply design thinking. Design thinking is really that you balance your, and you work as customer or client and architect, but you balance all these different aspects when you're creating a solution. So obviously, when you are deploying, say a CIM solution for a particular area or you're implementing a digital service or whatever might be, because you think about usability, you think about stability and availability is all these non-functional characteristics, you need to make sure that you deliver the functionality. That needs to be done with compliance in mind. And also, of course, you only have a certain amount of, I guess, funds available to you. So value for money will be critical, not only in doing the process, but also once the solution is deployed. And we see this now. And I think this was all a question that Steve had asked before. We see, I see certainly over the last, say, three or four years now, more and more sustainability being on par and those characteristics. So when you are executing as an architect, when you're working as an architect, enterprise solution or technical architect, and you've been asked to design a solution, you must make sure that the sustainability related aspects of the target or the final solution you're creating is not a secondary aspect or something that comes at the end. It's actually something that you have to take into account right from the start. Actually, the earliest you do this, the better, because sustainability, undoubtedly, carbon footprint may have an impact on or limiting your options that you have from an architecting perspective. So if you're making those design decisions too late, you may be constrained and you may not be able to do them. So I thought, I give you a kind of helicopter view across the how from an architecting perspective. Again, apologies, I can't go into the detail. I know I'm an architect as well. I want to see the details. So I would ask the question now, if it was you, okay, tell me how do you actually do this? What are the documents? What are the tools? But before you do this, if you just stop you for a second, allow me another five minutes because I have some examples and they may help to illustrate what I actually mean. Now, first example, again, a problem quite obvious, but it's also the answer to the question was the first thing, obviously, you need to be aware of what is the ICT contribution or the contribution from a YouTube perspective. So you may know that your manufacturing of a server, a storage component, an asset, typically is about 20% of its carbon footprint over its lifetime. I say typically, because of course it depends on what asset you have. It might be quite different between a mobile phone and say huge DS8700s or big storage unit. Doing its operation, the majority of CO2, of course, has been consumed during the operation. So typically it's about 80%. Again, it can be swaying from say 60 to 90%. And about one or two percent is the disposal of an asset that could cost the CO2 or CO2 will be related to the disposal of an asset. Now, one answer to the question, how do we reduce our footprint, sweat the assets longer? As Zilla was mentioning this before, rather than refreshing after five, why then refresh after seven? Of course, you have to take quality into consideration. As in the meantime, before failure, increases after a certain period, you may have more outages. So you may have more outages, by the way, and it's not, of course, no proof, it's just an indicator. So there are implications you have to consider you have to consider for certain areas that may not be applicable to do that for others. It's certainly be a good option to think about to reducing the carbon footprint. Because when you buy an asset, like for instance, if you buy a mobile phone, 20% of its carbon footprint is already built in by the production of this asset. The longer you use it, the less overall impact you will have. So there are calculators, there are examples out there that you can use. Here's one example. Again, I'm just using one. This is an example from Dell that issues the typical footprint of, this was an M service this year, I can't remember now, which is an M830, I think it is. And this is taken off Dell's calculator. You can see also here the distribution of CO2 across its lifetime, so 18.5 in its manufacturing, then users were 80% and then end of life maybe 0.1%. And of course, this is, you have to take this with a pinch of salt, because the nine tons of CO2 calculated over its lifetime, it depends of course how you use the server in which utilization patterns you would deploy. But it gives a good indication of what to expect, particularly when you need to make decisions. Which way would I go? Will we do it ourselves on-prem? By the way, if you go on to cloud, of course, cloud still has servers. So sometimes a year, if I move on to public cloud, I don't have to worry about CO2 because it's not my server anymore. Well, it's still your service, so you still have footprint override maybe lower than if you had to build it yourself. Again, it may not be the case. So it's, of course, there are different options available with different implications. Now, another example, an apology is quite busy here. I thought I'd show it because of course, having clearly articulated principles also means helping being more sustainable. Because if you inject these principles right at the beginning, when you're starting, when you're enterprise study, for instance, or you're doing a solution design, it would help you to be more considering the carbon footprint of a solution. And here I thought I'd give you some examples of some principles. Again, right, of course, high level. You can see here a clear statement of intent from an enterprise architecture perspective around sustainability. Then more solution-focused principles that are related to this EA principle and something that can be used when you're making decisions, particularly around solution approach. So how do you build your solution? Is this all on our own kit? Will we use a cloud or what is the framework we're using from a solution perspective? For instance, when I was working for this public sector organisation, when we designed the DC at the time, it wasn't, the public sector wasn't really, it didn't have a big footprint. So the option was only right to build yourself. And we built a data center without any UPSs. So no batteries in our data center, just flywheels, because we didn't want battery footprint in those data centers. This was back in 2009 when we designed the data center without air conditioning. So use fresh air flows to cool the service. And that DC is in the middle of Europe, Britain, England. So not in the Arctic or anywhere. Last but not least, and I'm almost done, Steve. I promise, I said I'll do it in less than 25 minutes. I'm almost there. There's another example, because we've been designed, I've been in the IT industry for 35 years, 34 years. My standard pattern is when I design a solution, I typically have a pre-production environment. A pre-production environment can be a development environment, a functional testing environment, SIT, system integration test environment. I may have a UAT, user acceptance test environment. They certainly have a production environment. And that production environment also maybe have a disaster recovery environment, maybe also another environment. So there are many different environments, meaning potentially quite a lot of duplications. And we certainly see from an approach perspective that maybe that's not the most effective way of working. Why don't we just have two? So have one, which is life, and the other one is develop. And then you do all your testing and develop, including SIT, so system integration testing, maybe user acceptance testing. Now this may require, of course, you having more a microservice approach or more cloud-based approach. So with legacy systems, this might be a bit more trickier, but still I think questioning the layout of our typical production approach might be a good idea. So to finish off, so the question is ICT and CO2 is clearly there. You heard the 3%. If you don't do anything, we have maybe 20% of electricity consumption by 2030, which is a lot. What do we do? If you park all the solutions that are out there, approach is clearly a key angle. We are architects. It's our main job, to design solutions. So when you design solutions, make sure that you consider the correlation between ICT usage and CO2. Again, maybe very obvious. Yes, true, but understanding first what is there or what will be there is a really important aspect. And then when you are designing a solution, make sure that CO2, carbon sustainability, again, focused here on carbon, of course, is an NFR, a non-functional requirement, and it's on par with other characteristics. Some organizations are making generous, making decisions to state that sustainability or carbon impact is even more important than say, value for money or cost. So even if it's more expensive to go carbon less impactful or more sustainable, it's better for us. So we'd rather do that. So make sure that CO2 is part of your NFRs. And then, of course, obviously, have a look at and see how you can eliminate CO2. Like, for instance, maybe approach your pre-production approach slightly different by cutting out some of those environments, which, of course, will help you to reduce your CO2, will help you to reduce some of the footprint. And make sure that ICT is what you do. Again, probably just echoing what was said before. You know, it's a very, very important subject to all of us, to us in the IT sector as architects, but also to us as individuals. The first picture you've seen on this presentation is where I used to live in Trier in the southwest of Germany. So it affects us at climate change. And we have a part to play as architects to really make sure that sustainability is part and parcel of our design. And with that, and I'm slightly over, maybe two minutes, I'll finish my presentation. Maybe we can go on to some Q&A, Steve, if we have any. Great stuff, Gunnar. Thank you very, very much. Really appreciate it. And we'll have, yes, we'll have you back on the panel a bit later, but we'll probably have time for a couple of questions right now. Both you and Celine have mentioned geography or where you are as an important factor in these decisions. We hear sometimes about the worst countries in the world in terms of emissions. Are there some that stand out at the other end of the spectrum, good places to be or advanced in their thinking? I think that's a really tricky question. I think the, I must admit, I'm not an expert in that area. However, when I investigated there's a bit, and again, Celine has mentioned a couple of figures before, when I had a look, for instance, I wouldn't say the UK is a leading light in this, but I was quite surprised by how little, for instance, UK, you was using coal. I think our coal consumption was, I think, on 2% or 3%. A lot comes from wind and from renewal. We have far, well, I have a bit, for my taste, personal taste, a bit too much gas still in there, but we're going into the right direction.  I think the point is, if you live in the country, there are standard figures and numbers being issued globally. So, you can have a look at what is your energy mix, for instance, for your data center. If your provider isn't providing that information, typically they do, and depending on which country is, you are, you can find it out yourself, what's the mix, and therefore how likely, how much carbon you're likely to produce. It's a bit more trickier than it sounds. Sometimes, when I advise people, when they ask me, how do I calculate it, it must be quite easy because they just look at the server and it tells me my CO2 footprint. Unfortunately, there's no A, B, C, D, and E label. In Europe, you have the categories. When you buy a fridge or a freezer, you know exactly what the energy efficiency of that fridge or freezer is. Unfortunately, in IT, we're not there yet. Again, I guess Lin has mentioned that before as well. It's a bit more tricky or bright, of course, there are some frameworks you can use. So, my advice would be, have a look at your country, see what is the typical mix. You can give a good guess of your how many, how much carbon you're likely to emit per kilowatt hour, and then you can use that as a calculator to calculate. By the way, if you're interested, if you connect with me on LinkedIn, it's actually a subject that I've written about on my last post on LinkedIn. How do you do that? That's great. So, do you, question come in, do you have a view on what are the highest leverage areas of IT to address first to increase sustainability? It was similar question to ask, to what I asked to Lin, where are the priority areas? The rest of the question, I mean, maybe it's leading down an answer, but reducing usage because it's the larger contributor or charging hardware manufacturer because it will potentially have a longer term impact or something else. Yeah, I guess I would give you an architecture response. An architect's response, it depends. I think it's very difficult generically to articulate. Let me give you an example. So, when I was working for the government department, as I mentioned, reduced the overalls to two by 50%. Where did we start? Well, it was first of the big consumers, so the big storage devices. It was on-prem at the time, of course, as well as the big power hungry applications. You mentioned, I think somebody mentioned, I don't know whether it was you, but crypto coins, for instance, mining, mentioned mining before, there are a number of heavy processing activity that you should really have a look at. And we work together with the business to really validate whether they were needed. So, this government department, we're running applications day and night to do certain calculations. And in IT, you usually don't really question that. You think, well, the business really needs it, so therefore, we should be executing it. But when we ask the question, this is really, could we do this differently? Could we use maybe different servers or you could lay out differently? You may find that there are different ways of doing this. It comes back to this original driver, so what is the intent here? What are you trying to achieve? And how much support are you getting from the organization? And again, maturity of understanding or appreciation of sustainability, particularly in the context of ICT, sometimes a bit understated because some people may say, it's only 3%, but the 3% might be 6%, it might be 10% soon. And we certainly can't do that. It has to be the other way around. So, we need to find a way to change the way we construct design, implement and operate IT. Gunnar, we'll leave it there. We're right on the break time, perfect timing. Really appreciate you joining us today and sharing that perspective. And yes, the presentations, all the presentations will be made available to all of you who've registered. So, a warm welcome, a warm thank you again to Gunnar Menzel of Capgemini.


What's up everyone, it's your girl, Kenty here from Layton Sports Cards and I'm ripping a personal for Joseph B. We've got a 2022 Panini National Treasures baseball hobby box. Best of luck here, Joseph. Thanks so much for your patience. Let's see what we get you.  Yeah, it needs a wrapper too, though. Right, here we go. Up first, we've got the Stars and Stripes seven out of 10 branded Nimmo. Metz, nice recolored Metz patch there. Colossal patch, Alec vom. Philly's, a little pinstripe on that one. We've got Field Gear of Tommy Henrich. That is 12 of 25. Old school patch there. Game-worn used material. Got acetate auto, seven of 25, Bristar grutter roll for the Dodgers. Another acetate auto. We've got legacy signatures, 14 of 25, Marcus Strowman for the Cubbies. Apprentice Ink, 18 of 25. We've got Yuri Perez. Yuri, Yuri, nice open card there. Got thick, RPA going to Cleveland and Eli Morgan, four out of 10. Nice patch there, four out of 10 for the Guardians. Try a big Gucci, I appreciate that, buddy. We have Barry Larkin for the Reds, 11 of 17, legacy signatures. We've got some booklet here, 36 of 99, Cal Raleigh. Mariners booklet with a jumbo patch, 36 of 99. And last one here, we've got Treasure Jersey numbers, three out of five, George Brett. They're such beautiful cards. George Brett to five. Alrighty, Joseph, that will do it for your NT baseball. Thanks so much for your support and hopping in. We'll get these right out to you.


Take one man consumed by a driving ambition. Add the red color of hate in the blistering heat of a baseball diamond. That's our story, come back. Taken from the files of John Steele, adventurer. This is John Steele.  Most of our tales are about old friends of mine, but this week's is an exception. I first met Lou Johnson when I was scouting for one of the Major League Baseball Clubs, and though his story is a sports story, it's also one of a man. But here he is to tell it himself. Lou? They say once you're through in a big show, you might as well get out and stay out, because it's never the same after that. Well, I didn't feel that way about it. Baseball was my whole life, and I wanted to play the game, even if it meant going down to the Class B League to do it. So after I was released from the Majors, I went down to AAA, then on down the line until I ended up with the Memphis Graves and the Three State League. But I never stopped hoping that someday I'd get called back upstairs. That's why I could put up with the lousy food and the night bus rides and all the rest of it. It was baseball, I played it hard all the way. Like the day we were playing the Chattanooga Chiefs. It was early in the season, everybody on the team had pretty much made up their mind we weren't going any place anyways. Chiefs were in first place by three games, pulling away from the rest of the league. We were last. Skip, our manager had started a young kid by the name of Snell in my place at third. I'd been warming the bench all day. It was our half of the ninth. We were one run behind. Coombs, our shortstop, got a single to start things off. Next two men played out. That brought up the kid, Georgie Snell. Lou's got a hit for you. Just keep an eye on me, kid. I'll show you how it's done. Let's get a banner over here. Get going, Lou. Just watch the old professional, kid. I don't get it, Skipper. Come on, you're delaying the game. Johnson for Snell. I know. I know. Step in there and let's get this over with. That's just what I'm planning on doing. Well, if it ain't Mr. Major League himself. Okay, Curly, here's the big man himself. Pappy, let's see that high high one. Pappy running into his chin. And here it is, here it is. That his fastball? Yeah, that's his... Kind of the stitches on it as it went by. Hey, here that Pappy, second astronaut, I'm high enough. Come on, I gotta train again. Just giving them their money's worth. Curly, come on, let's give them that big floater, baby. Bend in that big one and watch them swing.  Tell him not to come over to play it again or he's lost a ball game. Listen to him sing, Curly. Listen to him sing. Yeah, yeah. Okay, Pappy, we're way out in front. Got him to waste, baby. Come on now, let's put one right over the button on his cap, Curly. Let's make him out of there. And here it is, here it is. Watch if the Skipper's gonna take me out when things get hot. You got plenty of time. Yeah, yeah. Don't take it so hard. Them is has it and them is ain't. Well, I know I've got it. Just ain't a ball player, kid. He's got to learn to take it. Yeah, you're sure that's the reason? Of course it is. Okay, the sock's called Charlie Harris, back to the Major. When? Yesterday. What do you know about that? Yes, I need some pennant insurance. You sure? Yeah, yeah. It's in tonight's paper. Says he's gonna be used as a pinch hitter. Oh, Charlie. Yeah, he should have been out in the front by five games by now. Yeah. Maybe Harris will give him the power to need. Maybe. Have to keep an eye on him. Yeah. What's the matter with you? Nothing. Let's get in that shower before the hot water is gone. Huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I cleaned up, I bought a paper and beat it back to my room at the hotel. Yeah, there it was and headlines on the sport page. Harris recalled of the Majors. That was good. At least I knew the socks needed some help. And if Harris didn't work out, well, I might get back upstairs yet. Like Herman says, I was gonna keep an eye on him. I went out to the field for practice next morning, but it's different. Now, going back to the big time was a lot more than just a dream. Play the game harder and ever. Make ever play count. Yeah, that was the way to do it. I was walking up to take my turn in the batting cage when the skipper called me aside. Hey, Johnson! Yes, Skip? Come here a minute. Sure. What's up? I, uh, want to talk to you. Shoot. I've been worrying. Oh, forget it, Skip. We ain't always gonna be in last place. Ah, it's not that. Well, what then? I don't like to do what I did yesterday. Oh, that's okay, Skip. I don't mind if you get playing in my spot. I don't mean that. Huh? Young Snell's a pretty good ball player. Yeah, he's a kid. That's just it. He needs experience. Well, why don't you send him down? Down to where? Where the bottom? Yeah. He's never gonna learn if I don't give him the chance. Oh, what are you supposed to do? Throw away ball games or a green kid can get used to the heat? I know, I know. That's your job, ain't it? Winning games? That's part of it. I don't get you. The other part is developing good prospects to send up to the majors. You think anyone up in the socks office cares where the Memphis Gray stand in the Three State League? Oh, I don't know. Seems to me. Well, I don't. If I can send up one good player every three years, that's what makes some sense upstairs. Well, what's that got to do with me? Just this. I like to win ball games just as much as you do. Yeah? I know that during a game, there's not always the time to let a kid get his lump. So? You've got experience. Now, wait a minute. There's a lot you could teach now, if you want.  I just meant to... I got myself to think of. Someday I'm going back to the majors. Are you? Yes, I am. I ain't got the time. Let him learn the way I learned. The hard way. Ah, I guess I had you figured wrong. Oh, what are you talking about? I never thought Lou Johnson would worry about a kid taking his spot. Oh, you're nuts. Hi. What is it then? Hey, where is he? Over at the sliding pit. Yeah. Remember, this was your idea. Thanks, Lou. Yeah. Remember. What do you think I made them fly in class for? He's in the bag and then coming roaring. Look at some of the best baseball in the game today. They spent hours in the pit and then went... Oh, hello, Lou. Hi, Herman.  Yeah, I know. What are you doing over here? Skips one, better help out. Oh, you can have it. I never saw it. That's not a good one. Hey, kid. What do you want? Let's see a follow-up slide. What for? Don't give me a hard time. Skips orders.  That's better. Now go ahead. That's pretty good. Falling your teeth. Says who? You don't believe me? Try it again. I'll get on the bag. You throw me a ball, Herman. Give a kid a chance. Okay, wise guy. What's the matter, kid? You getting hot? Try it again. Sure. Only don't do a follow-up. This time, come in with your spikes flying and break up a double play. I'll stay on the bag and hold the ball.  Okay? Sure. Hey, wait a minute, Lou. We don't want no one getting hurt. It's all in fun. Ain't it, kid? Yeah, all in fun. Go on, Herman. Get back here. Okay. It's your legs. Go on, Snell. Sure. Ready, Herman? Yeah. Come on, kid. Spikes up. The best you can do. What do you mean? I got the ball to you.  Sure. Hey, kid, that slide's one more ball game than any other play in the book. Yeah? You got to play it hard. You got to knock the pivot man's pins clean up from under him. Don't worry about the bag. Just get those spikes in his legs. Here, I'll show you. You stay on the bag and try to get the ball to Herman. Hey, now, wait a minute.  Skip Sorter. Go ahead. Big shot. Show me how. Sure. Okay, kid, here I come. Just a scratch.  Come on, seven inches long. Somebody get the doc. Bad, huh? Sir, do you rat? You shouldn't have done that, Lou. You shouldn't have done that. That ain't for real. No. You take that girl. It's been so quiet. What's the matter with you? Oh, it's nothing. Want to stop for a beer? No, I feel like it tonight. It's awful hot. I don't care if you want. What's the matter with you? Snap out of it. Or we'll stop for a drink. No, forget I brought it up. Love stuff to bunk, huh? Yeah, sure it is. Uh, how come you never got hitched, Lou? Huh? You used to have plenty of girls. Yeah, I guess I had my share. Uh, how come you never married one of them? Never had the time, I guess. That's what I thought. Oh, you know how it is. Always shoving onto another town. Yeah. Every one place long enough to get to know anybody. Didn't you never want to get married? Yeah, thought about it. It'd be nice to have a little house. Kid, maybe. I guess I figured I'd come later. Other things more important. Like what? Playing the game, working my way upstairs. Yeah. Maybe you've played it too hard. Huh? What do you mean by that? Oh, nothing. I was feeling good till you started talking. I know. What a creep. Sorry. Want to buy paper? Okay. Give me the chronicle. Thanks. What's your headline? Here's some stuff about Korea. See the sports page. Here we are. Let's see. The socks one day do today. Yeah, yeah, here it is. I lost three, two. Now, where's the write-up? Yeah, it'll be down to the bottom. Oh, it's pitching well in the ninth inning. Charlie Harris, who flew in from Indianapolis this morning, was sent in to Pinchhead for Robinson. He might just as well have come by train because with two out in the tine and one in runs on base, he struck out to end the game. How about that? What? Harris was sent in to... I heard you. A couple more like that and the socks will be beaten to bushes for another pinchheader. I suppose so. How long we known each other, Lou? Well, 15 years, I guess. Let's see, we'd come up the socks together in 35. Funny thing. I've never really known you till now. Huh? I guess the guys were right this afternoon.  Are they? Well, sure they are. That's a trouble, Lou. I don't think they are. What do you mean? They wanted to go to skip and have you thrown off the team. But I stood up for you. So they didn't know you like I did. Well, why would they... They think you spiked the kid on purpose. Well, those things happen. No, they don't. It was an accident. I thought so this afternoon. Now I know I was wrong. What are you trying to... You spiked that kid today and now you're out laughing and having a good time. He'll be out for a month, maybe more. You didn't even go over to the hospital to see him. It's a tough game. You got to play it hard all the way. The guys were right. Well, what difference does it make? Skip never would have listened to him. Maybe not. So long, Lou.  The guys all got together the next day and wanted to skip. He told them they were crazy. It was just an accident. From then on, I played third regular.  My batten average started climbing until I was hitting around 390. Team climbed up in the first division. I knew I was carrying him. Kid's leg got infected and I kept him off the field another two weeks. In late August, he started taking practice with us. Being a kid, he came along fast. Meantime, I'd been keeping my eye on Charlie Harris up with the socks. From what the paper said, he was having a rough time. He had two hits and 35 trips to the plate. Sports writers would call him the All-American Out. It was the last week in August. We had a big game with the Chiefs that afternoon. We're just going out for field and practice when Skip called us all together. All right. This'll end with some of you, but not many. I got word from the office today that the scout from the socks will be at tomorrow's game. So if you have any big ideas, tomorrow's a day to show them. What are we waiting for? Let's go. Okay, fellas, that's all. Hey, Skip. Yeah, Johnson? What do you want? Uh, who's coming down? Did they say? What? The scout. Who is it? Oh, oh. John Steele. John Steele. You know him? Uh-huh. Sure, sure. I know him well. Uh, Lo, I've been watching you careful for the last week. Yeah? I notice you're hitting this kind of tapered off. I think you're pressing too much. No. I know this means a lot to you tomorrow, and I thought... What? I thought maybe I'd play Snell this afternoon. No, no. The kid's about ready to start and it'll give you a day of rest. No, Skip. You don't even have to take field and practice today. It might be just what you need to have a big day tomorrow. I don't need no rest. Well, you can suit yourself about practice, but Snell's gonna play this afternoon. Skip. You don't know what's good for you. I'll show you. I don't need no rest. I'll go out there and catch everything in sight. I know you can feel. I'll just have a... I'll show you. Come on, Skip. Let's get going. Okay. Go on, Lo. Get out there. You just watch me, Skip. I'll catch everything in sight. Press while you finish your private conference. Jerk. It's a matter of being set. Trying to get out of practice. Jerk. Here comes one. Get yours, kid. That was mine all the way. Yeah, why don't you take it then? Hit us another, Skip. Cold jerks. The wall out cold. Jerks. Head first. Out cold. The wall out cold. The wall cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. Cold. So, the team is coming up tomorrow, and I got up on my feet. I was runky as a lush, and a ten day bendy, got some clothes on, took off, out the backdoor. I dunno where I went, or how long I walked. When I got back the hotel is dark. Unlocked the door of my room even before I turned on the light and anybody was there. Where you been? What are you doing here? Where ya been? Skip's been lookin' all over for you. I dunno. Been up here five times. Yeah? How you feelin'? I'm okay. Sure?  Sure, I'll go in a couple of minutes. I just want to say I'm sorry about tomorrow. What about tomorrow? Skip says I'll be playing third. Oh, he did, huh? Yeah. We'll see about that. Doc says you can't play. We'll see. I'm sorry you worked out like this. What do you mean? I wanted to beat you fair and square and not this way. Besides, I had you all run. Yeah? You can play tough for the other guys, but I know better now. Well, it gives you that idea. I heard you warned me off that wall just before you hit it. I'm the right guy to do that. Yeah? Yeah.  That's so? I'd sure like to do good. I guess you would. Not a hitter yet, but I will be since I get my swing time. You think so? You know, Lou, I've been thinking. There's a way that it'd make it seem as though you were right up at that plate tomorrow. You know how I take those three little steps before I hit the ball just like Dixie Walker used to? Well, if you'd helped me get my timing right, it'd be just like you was up there. So that's it. Huh?  Come squirming around here, tell me what a good guy I am. Suppose I'll give you the tip that'll send you upstairs. You got it all wrong. Well, let me tell you something, smart guy. I knew there was something behind it all along. You're nuts. And I'll tell you something else. I wasn't warning you off that wall this afternoon because I didn't even see the wall. I was trying to scare you off the ball so as I could make the catch. Now, what do you think of that? It was right in the first place.  You don't know how to play the game hard. I should have known better.  Well, I won't until I... Cut it down, Johnson. I don't want to hurt you.  You can't hit you, Johnson.  Won't even fight back.  You got to play it hard. Now, get out of here. Sure, I'll get out. Until I tell you something...    You don't even know there's anyone else alive. And you know why? Because you're scared to death inside. Scared you ain't good enough. Scared somebody's going to take your spot away. Scared you ain't going to make the great. Now you've got something to really be scared about because you're going to get left holding a bag. You're going to get old and you won't have baseball and there are people and there are nothing because nobody's going to care. Well, you're through now and you ain't got nothing. Nothing. I feel sorry for you. After the game I locked myself in my room and slept. Phone rang six or seven times during the night but I didn't answer it. About three in the morning Skip came up and banged on the door. I just laid in bed and listened and finally he went away. And I went back to sleep. Guess I was too tired even to dream. When I woke up it was ten o'clock in the morning my head still ached. Whole right side was stiff. I took one of the shades down, rolled it up and practiced swinging until my side started to loosen up. I didn't go out to the field until after game time. And I got to the locker room that was empty. Pulled on my uniform, packed some cotton in under my sliding pads to protect that hip. And I got to the dugout, the game had started. Johnson, what are you doing here? I'm on the team, ain't I? You should be in the hospital. I feel great Skip. Honest. Well, he ain't going to play so you might as well go back to the hotel and rest. I'll stick around. Maybe you could use a pinch hitter later on. Suit yourself.  Sit down. Snell's up, huh? Never get a hit.  Go show. Yeah, he's right behind the dugout. Good. Another line drive. Yeah, right to the shortstop. If he just straightened one of them out. Sorry, Skip. Just can't seem to get a hold of one of these. Okay, kid. Oh, sure, that's okay. We didn't need the run anyway.  If you'd let me go in and hit them. I'll be back in a minute. Where are you going?  Don't worry. Let me see that arms, Snell. Beat it. I saw you flinch when you reached for the rail.  Let me see it. Good. Ah, swollen. How'd that happen? Snuffin. Last night? Snuffin, I tell you.   All right. You going to game away? We won't even playin' with eight men.  What's the idea? You said to play it hard, well, that's the way I'm playin' it. There wasn't no more scorein' when we got to the last half of the night. There was still one run behind. First man flight out, next man walked. Next man struck out. Two down and a man on base. When Snell went walkin' up to the plate. Playin' him to pull them left. Yeah, such a kid. Yeah. He hasn't got it, that's all. What's the use of kiddin' myself? Skip. How do you feel, lol? Huh? You're ahead. How's it feel? Kinda, kinda rocky, eh? Yes, it's been too much for me today. Yeah, afraid of that. Let me go out and talk to him, Skip. You think I'm nuts? Nothin' to worry about. I promise you. Okay, okay, I'll try anything. Time, I'm time for me. I ain't got much time. When do you start takin' those three little steps before you hit the ball? Huh? Tell me. Uh, I see the ball comin' around from behind his head. Now listen to me. I used to watch Dixie hit. Wait till the ball leaves his hand. It didn't go into your dance. How do I know you're just a kid? Okay, wait till tomorrow to find out if I'm right if you wanna. Come on, still termsy. Now go on, kid. And stop pressin'. You sure takin' his time. Yeah, but to the right, but to the right. John Steele, kid. Oh, thanks, Mr. Steele. Don't I know you from somewhere? Well, I'm, uh... I'm Lou Johnson. Yeah, sure. Now I remember. Say, I like the way this kid hits. Nice swing. Bad luck today hitting him at people. But he hit everyone smack on the nose. Yeah, he's got a good swing. I'd like to have a talk with you after you clean up, Steele. Well, uh, sure. Thanks, Mr. Steele. See you later. Nice to see you again, Thompson. I guess I was right the second time, huh, Lou? What? What? Looks like you're on your way, kid. I'll be seeing you again, Lou. Huh? Because I'm gonna tell them up there they got a good coach goin' away down here at Memphis. I'll be seeing you again, Lou. Maybe. Maybe. The title? Comeback. The story of a man who learned that sometimes you can step down to go upstairs. And if you like Lou's story, friends, why not come back next week? I'll have a man who is trapped not ten feet from civilization and whose life depended on a single blade of grass. I like to call it Juniper Bush. So until next week, this is John Steele saying, A life of adventure is yours for the asking wherever you find it. Only don't look for it. It may find you. Well, goodbye and good hunting. This is the Mutual Broadcasting System.