What's up everybody? All right today's giveaway maps strong. This was a maps workout program We designed with a world's strongest man competitor Robert Oberst giant human being very strong We put this program together. It's fun and it's free for one of you viewers Here's how you can win leave a comment the first 24 hours that we drop this episode Turn on your notifications and subscribe to this channel do all those things if we like your comment We'll notify you and get free access to map strong Okay, also we're running a sale right now on two very popular maps workout programs The first one is maps performance. This is an athletic minded workout program So train like an athlete perform like an athlete look like an athlete unconventional workouts and exercises a lot of fun The other program that's on sales maps aesthetic That's a bodybuilder style workout program for balance and symmetry and body sculpting and building Again both 50% off. Here's how you can sign up For maps performance go to maps green calm for maps aesthetic go to maps black calm and then the code for both of them for 50% off is FEB 50 again FEB 50 gives you 50% off either maps performance or Maps aesthetic. All right here comes a show when you're trying to find a good trainer or coach The most important thing to look at is their experience Nothing will tell you more about how good the trainer is than that You know, you're gonna piss off a lot of people that value their four-year degree They spent getting their their kinesis degree or their sports medicine degree. Yeah something like that.  So I think education is important as well Right what I'm saying is if the the one most important factor is experienced. Yeah, okay So an experienced educated, you know coach or trainer is gonna be great But it's if you are looking at a educated coach who's got you know a degree a master's degree or whatever and You compare them to a trainer or coach who's got equal amount of time But as experienced training people like you The experienced person is more likely isn't a guarantee, of course There's crappy people on all sides, but they're more likely to do a better job And that largely has to do with the fact that when you're coaching The most important aspect of what makes you successful is not necessarily the information that you know But rather how you apply and how you help the person through the process like for example when you talk about diet You know, it's very easy to Google diet how to lose weight Macros what has proteins what has fat what's has carbs that kind of stuff But what's hard is to figure out how to modify behaviors how to be consistent how to develop a better relationship with food That comes from experience and the experience that you get from working with lots of different people is what teaches you that It doesn't come from learning kind of general, you know, okay, this is pattern recognition Yes, I mean a lot of it is really paying attention to how you need to alter and adjust and be able to you know Appropriately apply a more successful plan, which isn't something you technically Are fluid with when you're learning just from books and in in isolated kind of environments where you know It's it's in a laboratory setting where this is like how you know It is sort of laid out versus somebody that comes in with so many different variables You have to work through you're almost more of a detective at that point The science and knowledge is is very accessible to everybody now Mm-hmm, which is very different than what it was just 20 years ago where you know Even your client could easily Google whatever it is that they're trying to find out as far as the answer But we're the the experience part and you talk about this all a lot is that that's where the wisdom comes in right like how do you take that distill that down into something that's Practical and applicable to the client and then how to implement that into their lifestyle. That's just That's practice something that you've you've had to try and probably fail at multiple times before you kind of figure it out A lot of it is what I feel like kind of what we talk about on the show. It's you know, it's Yes, the our education And everything that we've read over the last two or three decades, right is is important I mean we have to be able to have some some knowledge base But really it's the how and what we decide to communicate to the client I think that it makes it more effective as far as your coach as you're applying it is where all the questions come up for you to then Try to pursue more education To get more knowledge that you can then bring back in Versus like, you know trying to learn everything and then not really knowing What's gonna be valuable? So let me ask you guys this then do you think that it's More or less important because all the information is more accessible today than it was again a couple decades ago Is it more or less important to have a coach today than it was two or three decades ago? Oh, I see what you're saying. I think it's always been important Well, that's all this because of the profession's been around more or less. I don't know. That's a good question Because sometimes I think because you know why lots of information Okay, here's a fact now we have access to more information today than ever before and it's not even close if If I had a question about something when I was a kid I had to literally go to the library Yeah, and look it up and find a book and then go home and oops I have another question Gotta go back to the library. There was nowhere I could go like right now on my phone I have access to all of the recorded information of all of human history, right? potentially Have we seen a decrease in obesity? Have we seen an improvement in health? Have we seen more consistency with exercise? No, we've seen it go down. It's not an information problem. It's an application problem For example to lose weight.  It has nothing to do with the information has everything to do with the stuff that coaches Experienced coaches bring to the table and then I'll ask you guys this you guys know a lot about Exercise and nutrition and science around training What percentage of all that information would you apply to the average client at 1% you know? I'm not gonna take the average person and you know There's also advanced training knowledge and hypertrophy and fat loss and sleep And I'm gonna take like 1% of it and apply it to the individual It's just it's it's not it's important, but the experience aspect is the most important thing you can almost make the case that there's More pathways for the average person today than there was two or three years ago Which means that it would probably be more necessary to have a guide today to help sift at least that's what I mean Because there's so there's there's so I mean even what we see this even in With studies how often is like one study contradict another study and there's so much information that's out there That it could probably become Overwhelming for the average person and easily led down the wrong path because they they think they know but they don't right? So you could almost make the case that it's needed.  Yeah, okay, so it's no different than this, right? It's no different than the business professor who's teaching at a you know esteemed university Who's been teaching business to students for a long time versus the business person who's opened and you know businesses and failed Yeah, who is gonna who's more likely to start a business and succeed and do those things, right? It's gonna be the person with the experience. It's not the professor. Does that mean the professor has no value? No, it doesn't it's they're very valuable But when you're picking a coach or a trainer if you're when you're weighing things out Experience is the most important by far and look we we we train people for a long time We were considered among some of the most successful Trainers I guess in our area right here in the Bay Area our circle in our circle. Yeah, that's how we kind of knew of each other There was like ten of us, yeah But we know we did pretty well with three of the best five that we know. Yeah, yeah, like top three out of the top out of the four No, but serious, you know all joking aside So we did pretty well and we knew and we saw people trainers come and go and we hired Trainers to and well now when you hired a trainer What was more important for you to look at? Yeah, but you so I actually Remember learning this lesson. So when I first the same thing I'm gonna say when I first got into management I actually went after the you know, I had a I've had a PhD work for me I had I had plenty of people with their masters and of course lots of Bachelor's in science and so I went after that like I would actually go down to the the call local college and actually look for kids that just came out with their kineser Excuse me or their sports medicine degree, right and I tried to build a team around like the most educated trainers And really I saw it after that because I wasn't I didn't finish my kines degree And I thought man imagine if I could find a bunch of these trainers that are far smarter than I am in the field Like we're gonna be we're gonna be done it and what happened was it was difficult, dude it was really difficult to succeed with this this group of trainers that I had that were all really really smart because a Lot of them failed at the application process later on in my career and this was by the way, too I'm like skipping over years of kind of learning this lesson, you know over and over But eventually I came to the conclusion I would rather have somebody with no fitness knowledge that I could teach How to train clients the way that I have learned over years of practicing all this over having somebody with a Masters or even a PhD in the field like that's how much I would rather have a Trainer that I could teach that that part didn't but it took me Years of like oh this maybe to be this smart guy or this smart girl. I don't I don't care how You know whether you're super educated or not You're not the best trainers I ever worked with were trained were people who trained for at least five years It would take five years. Yeah for them to really get really good And you know here's how you know right you ask a trainer a question And if they have the answer right away, and they don't answer with it depends Then you know they don't have a lot of experience when you you know, you know, it's funny because like I remember we interviewed like Joe DeFranco, excellent I'm one of the best Trainers out there somebody we all looked up to back in the day And I remember he first came on the show and I would hear and we were interviewing him And he kept answering with it depends and I remember like oh, yeah, of course because he has a lot of experience working with a lot Of different people, you know Brett Contreras would answer the same way it depends And that's what here oftentimes if you don't have the experience, but you have the the knowledge or the information Then the answer is you know, well, this is what the study shows. So here's the answer Well, I've also found to that when I got a lot and by the way, too, this is just my own experience I'm not saying this is the way it is for everybody But what I had found is a the trainers that were that had these had this education when they would come in And they're just starting the profession they have this education in the field But they have no experience in the the actual field and sometimes it would it would get in their way Yeah, their expectations were different were I just I should already be crushing. Yeah, or I know better because this is what the science says And it's like well, we're also dealing with behaviors, too, right? So there's and then they don't relate to their Clients that are coming in right or they talk down to them And they use a lot of anatomical terms and they you know Unfortunately, they lean hard on that instead of really trying to connect and pull their client in and find out, you know How to communicate in such a way to move their behaviors in a better direction, right when we all start We're all insecure in a way, right? Like we knew even for the educated trainer It's still a new profession So and their way of handling their insecurity a lot of time is to double and triple down on the education piece Well, I'm only saying that because this was like something I struggled through initially because I did come from you know, like from a college degree and Kinesiology and I had you know this understanding of How everything was gonna work out biomechanics, you know, ergogenic aids I took all the courses all the different things and ran a lab, you know at school and so it was a very much a You know a science sort of an environment where everything was sort of you know set up So it's gonna be played out So it's predictive but then getting into the gym setting you through I threw everything out like it just did not work out Now there is something though that Where if you don't have the education where you could really get yourself in trouble You guys remember a couple years ago. I brought up that girl Brittany Dawn. You remember her. Yeah Yeah, I do she was a fitness influencer. She's a fitness influencer You know what I saw online programs, right? So she made that term So she was a fitness influencer and she had a pretty large falling and she started selling Online digital programs and diets that were you know, quote-unquote custom And what they what ended up happening was she she blew up as far as her grow And she was selling tons of these and it got to a place where she definitely was not making custom plans at all She was doing these cookie cutter type of diets So I brought her up a couple years ago because it's been made the news is a big deal, right? well After that she made this like hard like religious pivot, you know Then she began like, you know quoting Bible verses all the time and she kind of went that angle For her audience and they stayed away from like the nutrition obviously advised because she got blasted But guess what just happened which just came in the news just like a couple weeks ago so the state of Texas is coming after her and suing her because she had people that Like had eating disorders and stuff that she was giving these unbelievably low calorie diets And I supposedly hurt a lot of people that were in this position And now the state of Texas is coming after her and actually suing her that crazy That is insane and I feel like so that's an area where like in well, that's in school You're they're gonna they're gonna teach you like some of the foundational principles like legal principles that you got I'm gonna go.  I've ever seen prescribed came from doctors and Medical experts with my clients. I had clients on 500 calorie a day shakes. No food. Yeah prescribed by their doctor So it's not always perfect now. Why does experience why is experience so good? Eventually you get found out eventually?   I do find it funny that she went the religious route with promotion And you know what I mean There's a lot of there's a lot of like similarities with the ability Manipulating people through religion or manipulating through the fitness cult. It's very similar. Well, we saw this in that What was that called the documentary documentary you you turned us on to it was Courtney and I just finished it where they combined like weight loss With being closer to God with the way down was that was it was cool. Yeah the way down the way down I gotta watch this. It's Oh, you didn't watch it now. What's it on what platform is on? HBO it's on HBO. It's on HBO. Is that the one with the lady with the big hair? Yeah, yeah Yeah, it was somebody somebody in my DMs record, which I mean, I love when when I get stuff like this, right? So I appreciate people know what we talk about what we're interested in somebody sent me over I had never heard of it didn't pop up by the way. That's my my my critique of HBO I know I I always kind of crap on Netflix and say that HBO and Disney are gonna catch them and stuff like that But one thing that Netflix did really really well is their UI. I mean the other recommendations Yeah, yeah, just the just the user interface is so user-friendly I mean, it's the way they categorize it and it rotates through stuff HBO is not good like that like this is something that you know should be kind of recommended or even have been in my Like sphere. Yeah, it wasn't I had to actually like I couldn't even find it looking for it I had to go to the search put the whole title in and then I found it now in this what they do They combine diet with religion. So under that like protected tax rights So basically it's like intuitive eating, but like they're praying in between right and they're like trying to it was aggressive fasting Yeah, aggressive fasting, but making like so the spiritual side which makes sense But like now they're like they're programming it. So it's literally part of the weight loss Program and the structure of it and so people would you know buy into this and they have all these services around it And then they give you all these rigid rules and you know, it just becomes this thing where it becomes a really rigid Form of you know the original doctrine. It's kind of brilliant. Okay. It's first of all It's well, you know, it's not the first time they people have made diets based off of well It was it's the it's the one meal a day And you can eat as much as you want and then all the rest of times when you have the desire to eat You pray pray it away because that's that's that is the I mean I can see how that strategy. Oh, no, it's brilliant I mean, it's really brilliant people losing way. Oh, and so it's like it's they buy into the thing And then she creates like this whole other version of what she views Christian Well, no, I'm not gonna defend it But what I will say is psychologically speaking the most effective way to stick to an extreme diet is To make it a part of your belief system Sure, for example, that's why it's brilliant what she did for example If you look at vegans, so that you know animal products whatsoever vegans who do it because they believe that any any killing any animal or milking and cruel is cruel like That's the whole reason why the vegans is because I believe that animals should not be treated that way at all Their consistency is so much better than vegans who do it for health reasons who say oh, I want to be a vegan because I think it's I don't want it meat and they go off all the time and it's because it's a belief system the people who's like no It's hurt animals even if they're nutrient deficient they show up with nutrient deficiencies even if a cause of problem They'll stick to it because that's a belief system. Yeah, so you tie it to religion and yeah, you're you're gonna be and I Believe both, you know, Brittany Don and this girl. We're talking right now I believe that it starts from a good place. I really do like I mean, I just that's I believe I want to believe Yeah, but then it becomes too much about themselves Yeah, that's where the narcissism kicks in our system takes over and whatever they were promoting is completely distorted by yeah Ideas that come through. Yeah, I think it starts off as a good cuz think about this I mean We haven't I don't think I've ever told a client to go pray when these times But I have told them about trying to becoming present in the moment realizing that this is a craving That you're battling right now and be aware of the like where your mental state is and prayer And prayer is I mean you're being present, right? I mean, it's it's a form of meditation in a sense becoming as present as you possibly can so You know, it's it's pretty good advice to a point, right? But I think and I and I think that's why I had so much success for the the congregation But then I think that the narcissism takes over of like because then she gets celebrated She starts to get celebrated as oh being so amazing and look at all these people that I'm losing all this weight My own church, you know, and then it becomes that and then you get all these people behind you I thought you you have to watch it. Yeah, it's really fast. Why do I have to watch it because you'll like it I mean, it's a it's a crazy intriguing story. It's got it. There is a major twist to it I just remember the girl it gets darker and darker. Yeah, she's like she looks like the like You know how you watch the righteous gents gemstones and they're a parody of yeah. Yeah Yeah, she looks like in that vein. Yeah, like the big hair and she's very much I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if the part of righteous gemstones was based off of some of her character and and yeah, yeah They took that and like the televangelists and they sort of just asked it all yeah, man Speaking of hair dude, so I don't I don't want to call anybody out But that that test that we were supposed to do where we're supposed to put It's a it's like a such a cock block So just so we get these tests not gonna say who it's from what's going on, but we're supposed to Put a hair sample in there and they're gonna measure things like heavy metals and stuff in our system through the hair, right?  Yeah, I'm thinking like hey hair No, you gotta put a chunk of hair.   You're gonna get it from somewhere else Yeah, then you want me to achieve man a patch of my beard out So I've got like this chunk like and it says on there you can use other body hair. So like last night I'm over there like trim in my legs Dude over here as his wife on Valentine's day shaving his armpit It's not a big deal I You know, I don't respect though for your your dedication to the business. I gotta give you that Some of the best sex and you just threw it out the window first for this, you know, yeah Well, I mean we'll see what happens we'll see if it's accepted because if not I mean, that's what you're gonna get the next one. I'm gonna send in his hair from somewhere You don't want so I'm gonna say yeah, I thought that was pretty funny I'm like Jessica's cracking up because it's not like I'm doing an even job. I'm like it's late. I'm going to bed.  What are they gonna find? Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we're gonna call me. Sorry. Yeah, I'm gonna see some kid It was just like me in the future.  Anyway, dude I gotta tell you guys something so this I'm a new stage of fatherhood, right? So my oldest son has a driver's license, right? 16 he's driving now and the level of worry.  Is he allowed to drive by?  No or you have to drive with someone who's 18 or older So the person in the car with you has to be 18 or older or you're allowed to drive a sibling But they have to have a release. Do you guys know that the history of that of that? Well, that happened after us. Yeah, so we yeah, we were just well Figured out if you got a look at the statistics of accidents Go through the roof when a 16 year old is with another 16 year older group of friends in a car Now, let's remember back when we were kids.  So do you do we have any idea on how has it impacted? Yeah, I did reduce Oh, it did. Yeah, I did reduce Accidents and deaths and stuff like that and it makes sense.  I think in the future when Self-driving cars are like everywhere They're gonna talk about how crazy it was that we drove these big-ass metal machines all the time Yeah, like our great-great-grandkids would be could you you guys drove yourself and you could crash in any time interest this is crazy But anyway, he's he's driving and I'm already a little nervous But I'm like, okay, you know, I remember when I did that and he's my son's very very good He pays attention he follows the rules. He's not like I was when I was a kid. I was reckless, right? So I'm like, okay, he goes for the first day. He drove himself to school Now his school requires he takes the freeway and it's busy or whatever Course first day drives a school. He's turning out and a car is literally driving on the wrong side of the road Oh, are you serious? Right at him right at him He swerves and misses the car by a little bit then on the way a home The light turns green and I taught him so when the light turns green wait a second wait a second And look make sure nobody's running a red light. He did sure enough car. So he gets home.  I'm like, well, how do you feel about driving tomorrow? He goes? How do you think? I Saw I'm like man, I told him I said listen I'm like listen, I'm like a little bit of beer will calm you down.  So I was my my parents taught me how to drive when I was 14 And we lived out in the country right and I learned how to drive on a stick And I vividly remember when you're first learning how to drive a stick Like the clutch and the shifting part is so difficult that I would shift and I'd like look down and I'd be drifting Yeah, yeah, it was just a habit like every time I shift I do this kind of thing and then I look back up And I'm like in the other lane and then I have to go back But I mean we live in the country.  I said, yeah, but that's what I learned on And I said, you know how you know how fun it was and I meant I didn't mean it literally I meant sarcastically when you're when you have to stop going uphill at a red light And you got stick shift and then you got to take off I said you have to learn how to use the e-brake at first But then you figure it out I do the whole thing but I drove stick shift the the windows were manual So it's like you push a button you had to do this thing. There's no rear review camera There's no airbags. Yeah, it's like a death trap the cars that we drove were death. I drove the first car I drove was a dodge cult was like a 1986.  I'm gonna go to the boardwalk. Oh 17. Yeah, I'm driving over 17 And I could not go faster than 48 miles an hour because the car was so underpowered I hit the hit the you know the hill. Yeah, I'm like I had to turn the AC off so that the car could So are you uh, okay, so now he's are you getting him a car? What's gonna be got a car? Oh, he already has a car his uncle gave him a car just straight up gave him a car Yeah, well, I mean it's got 170,000 miles on it, but it's a good car It was uh, what was it the is 300 lexus, but it's old one, but it drives good and it's you know, it's maintained But yeah, his uncle gave it to him. Which is really cool. That's cool. Yeah, and it's a safe car and all that stuff Now, okay. So how do you because obviously the uncle probably I mean, do you think the uncle is going to give every kid a car now? Or so I was in this situation by the way Like I had to return my grandmother bought me my first car or my my first require I drove an 84 camry first But I've told the story a long if you listen to mine pump a long time I think I shared the story where I was arrested and my parents made me return the car and all You guys know that stuff But that the the my my parents logic by why I couldn't have the car was because You know, they didn't think my grandmother was going to buy it for every sibling So why do I why do I get it because you're the firstborn bro? Well, I was you get all the responsibility.  So you lived in the car. I did Of course a 16 year old boy just got a brand new car.  What were the cars that you had when you first started?  What were you guys first?   I know dude. I I was racing fools like I was like it stuff was I would pull I didn't have a gas gauge and so I would like run out of gas like in the middle of uh, uh You know intersection and then just push it Dude, it was just Nuts, I can't believe my parents let me just like go out in public with that thing. It's hilarious.  I thought it was an 84. It was an 87. So 1987. Oh, you're spoiled It's a 1987 Toyota Camry. It was turd brown Uh, so this is like what 90 This is like 97. Yeah 10 years old. Yeah, so it's a 10 year old. What happened to all the turd brown, uh Right that was like a thing back then right and so this thing this thing.  It was it was all you couldn't even open it You can only open it from the inside pop it open, right? That's the only way you can get in inside the trunk The left uh tail light was uh broken because someone had backed into a grocery cart All four tires were different wheels and tires. So none of them matched or had hubcaps on them Uh, the the top was completely like sun bleached, you know when you left the car out forever So it was completely sun bleached spots on mine too in the winter time Somebody accidentally left the windows unrolled so it had just got soaked with rain inside So it's smelt of mildew nice the It was a stick it would fall out a second gear randomly when you're driving So you'd be driving it would just pop out a second gear To be a neutral and you had to shift it back in this thing was just an an absolute piece of shit car And that's what I started driving Now when I had my license, I also used to go to I used to I've told the stories to milk the cows before I would go to school Early in the morning like four o'clock in the morning And the reason why my grandmother took me to get a car was one day I came home late or from school Like I was supposed to come directly home from school. I don't even to be honest with you I don't remember I was probably playing basketball. I'll mess with my friends and I didn't come directly home I was supposed to my parents were pissed and I was grounded But when they grounded me they grounded me from the car That's it. You don't get your car and we could walk to school So that wasn't that big of a deal but I went to I went to work And the deal was I don't even get to use it for work Now I worked like seven miles away out in the country at four o'clock in the morning And so I had to ride my bike to work at three o'clock in the morning Oh, it was just some piece of shit 10 speed bike. I don't know. I don't even know You had to ride your bike at like three thirty in the morning. So I was doing this So I was grounded for several weeks. I'm about a week into this and I'm on my way to work at like three something in the morning And uh, the chain breaks Halfway there Three thirty in the morning, you know, or four o'clock in the morning or so on your way to work And the chain breaks and I remember I just broke down crying because I'm out in the middle of nowhere No cell phone Well, yeah, I don't I actually was I don't remember how I got a hold of my girlfriend But my I called my girlfriend who woke her mom up And the two of them came and picked me up and and took me to work But I called my grandmother like crying on the phone like later on the later on that day and just Was telling her I said listen I my my parents You take the car away from me anytime I screw up or do anything and I said I need to get to work at least And I said I have a thousand dollars that I've saved up from all the work I'm doing Would you come down and co-sign for me so I can get a car that's mine that they can't take for me And at that point that's my knowledge of the law I don't realize that if you're under 18 like nothing is yours. So I didn't learn that till later So she came down that weekend. She was pissed. She couldn't believe that my parents would Take that away from work the understandable ground them from school driving to school without her but to to do that to him going to work and so She came down and the I was going thinking I was going to get a used s10 Chevy pickup like a little banger that probably had 80,000 miles on it because that was all I could probably afford What'd she do? She over over over correct.  It was very sick. I was like that was like if my dreams are the same one you had Yeah, I had that car. Wait a minute. Was it type s? No, it wasn't type s. It was an it was an ls But it was really nice, right? It was really really nice for me I mean that was in the late 90s. Like that was one of the that was the cool car Oh, it was a very cool. It was like my dream car as a kid Yeah, I mean my knowledge of cars at that point that was the kind of the extent of it You know it was uh recently. I think not long after that so she went a little too far Oh, yeah, I mean that now that gets into my mom and my my grandmother's issues that they have that was kind of like her Sticking it to her probably and of course as a teenage boy grandmother says we're gonna go get you this brand new car I got you like what do you do like hell? Yes, right?  No, I'm not taking it back. It's mine.  I said, okay I packed my bags. I packed my bags. I had the car for about two weeks And then I found out through my friend's mom that my parents had called the cops on me and said that I was a runaway So I went down to the police station I had being proactive like I'm not gonna get arrested right for for runaway. I'm not a runaway I said they threw me out of the house They gave me an ultimatum. I left and they said it doesn't matter They call you in as a runaway. You're under 18.  Well, you have to go back home That's my only option. Well, that or you get emancipated. So I said, what do I I need to sign? So I literally wrote up like, you know them Turning over my, uh, you know guardianship over to my grandmother And brought it home for them to sign and that was like that was when they my stepfather Stood in the way so I couldn't leave then he tackled me and they called the cops and I was arrested It's a whole another story. Oh, man I yeah, I ended up having to my grandma had to take the car back down to San Jose where she lived I lived in the valley and parked in her garage And it was going to be parked there indefinitely until I turned 18 years old Luckily, my parents saw that I probably was never going to speak to them again after because it was like six months of like silence from me Like I literally went on I was so angry and hurt that like I spent the next six months like not speaking at dinner Like just doing what I was told getting my grades like I'm like and literally telling them like when I turn 18 You're never going to see me again And I think they really felt that was going to happen because I definitely meant it when I said it back then And then as I got to be about 17 let's say 17 70 and a half they started they gave me like to say Oh, if you get a 3.5 or whatever, we'll let you have the car back. So of course I got the grades and wow Oh, well, I guess yours is the worst Doug what your first car was a woolly mammoth, right? Yeah, it's a chariot It was not a horse in character. What was your first car? No, it was a Honda Civic hatchback. Yep. Oh, there you go In a manual, you know, yeah, so I learned on a ford maverick Which was a three on the tree.  No, nothing at all But the the the gas mileage on those cars was just absolutely insane. Yeah, so we all basically learned stick first Yeah, oh well, everybody did, huh? Yeah, because I I took it to this lumber yard and like whenever it rained That was like my dad's way of Getting me prepared was like to have me just hydroplane as much as possible And so every time went down and we'd go down there and like do donuts and like Learn how to control the car that control the car got really comfortable and like calm Is it all about being calm, you know, just small corrections Dude, I you know telling my kids how it was when we were kids their minds are blown I'm like, you know when we used to go places when my parents And family was over and my parents would have a small car. They didn't have make much money We sat like we two or three kids would sit on each other's laps in the back seat Mom would hold the baby in the front. There was no car seat.   It was a rope A rope Yeah, and then I just hook it around the other side. That's what I Just fly Builds character builds character the weak ones died. That's all I have to say Ones that are left over were strong.  What do you do it? So, okay, so As of right now the sleep routine well as of before The sleep routine would consist of about a couple hours before bed Either we turn the lights. Yeah dim the lights with your Felix rays. I put my Felix rays on that always makes a huge difference If I don't if I forget to put on my blue blockers a little yawning in the background Yeah, no, I don't do that. Yeah Yanni's a good time. We should post a picture of yawning right now. Do you know I went to that was the first concert I went to? Really first concert I went to was yawning oingo boingo for me. Really? Boingo really? Yeah, that's better than yawning.    So that's a little different That's all right. That's cool. Yes Kind of not really. Hey cooler than yawning, bro. No, there's no words.  So they they're the ones that do my trt But they also have peptides. They don't work with psalms Look, that would be stupid because you have testosterone there But they do work with peptides and this is all doctor, you know They're watching everything with like the PC 157 stuff like that. Yes. Okay. I didn't know this Yes, so they do they work with all the peptides, right? So There's a peptide called a butamoron Which I don't remember what the actual Like the chemical name of things the nk677 or something weird like that But a butamoron is what they call it and what it does Is it releases growth hormone? It's oral. So you don't inject anything You take it before bed and then you get this spike of growth hormone that lasts and it's Not growth hormone itself. It just causes your body to release more growth hormone and it's proven in studies to do so Yeah, and it's you know from reading reviews. Yeah, it is mk677 is the Is the I guess the chemical name or whatever your robot. I know I always have weird names but anyway You take it you get these results from growth hormone, which you know could be like better recovery skin Maybe a little bit of fat loss muscle building that kind of stuff. So I'm like, well, it's doctor. He's You know recommending it or suggesting it. They're watching me, which is cool. So I can see you know, what's happening So let me give us a shot, right?  That's what's happening right now So it's really wild. I I've taken growth hormone before it's been a long time since I have but actual growth hormone Yeah, like actual, you know growth hormone and one of the things that I liked the best about it was the sleep I would just get the most restful sleep and I would wake up and it refreshed Yeah, it reminded me of waking up as a teenage kid Like you know when you're a teenage kid I felt like no matter how much sleep I got or how it was it was like I popped out of bed And I was like ready to go for the day full of energy was never groggy or slow Um, it felt like that on it was one of the things that I noticed now. Are you seeing any so it's probably too early for this Okay, it's probably too early for this I'm going to be really interested to hear if you one of the other things I remember noticing as a side effect It's not really a bad thing, but it's um my fingernails Would grow. I was having to trim my fingernails like every week because they grew so fast So you should I I guess I should notice right nails and skin Skin was the other thing I know my skin was like really really But I would I would imagine that would take me at least a few months Yeah, it took like at least three to six months for me to like really notice those things It was very minimal like you I I thought from back then when I took it You know the hype around it like you you know all the biggest bodybuilders were taking it And so I thought it had a big part in like just building tons of muscle It doesn't feel like that at all at it like you don't even feel it's not like testosterone Where you take it and you feel like the growth hormone you just feel good. Yeah, and you consistently feel well I mean, it's only been a few days and the sleep is just incredible, but it's cool because they go they do work with peptides now technically You can buy peptides over the counter But it's not regulated that way. They're sold as research chemicals online. You don't know what you're getting Could be fake. You don't have anybody monitoring your blood So, you know, what's going on with in this particular case, you know, obviously they're monitoring things It's with a doctor and it's a legit source. So that's why I'm like, yeah, I'll give it a shot and it's man I I can take it like an hour before right before bed or right before right before empty stomach Yeah, empty stomach right before bed. I just take it and then go to sleep and now with something like this Pop up for like an athlete like if an athlete was a great question Like because I would imagine there's huge benefits for athletes to be taking things like this question I wonder if it's I would assume it's banned, but how would you test for it? Right, if it's just if it if it naturally just kind of boosted boost the growth and I remember I remember It's probably not So crazy where it's like, you know, your forehead and skull is going to grow like no, no, no What I've heard it compared to is like taking One iu or one and a half ius of growth hormone a day, which is not bodybuilder dose Not so your head's not going to grow. No, it is. I can't imagine your head getting any bigger No, I don't have a yeah, that's just figurative though. Literally forehead.  Oh, there you go. Yeah, so it's a band. Yeah, so it's a Well, hey athletes, that means it works I didn't I didn't know that they they offer that Yeah, they have all they they work with like all the peptides Besides psalms because psalm again Why would you use a psalm when you have actual testosterone? We gotta get to talk more about peptides in that forum. I think it's really cool, right? Yeah Yeah, very very interesting. I didn't know they offer that either. Yeah, very interesting Well, I remember when we took we all took the bp bpc 157 am I saying that right? Yeah We all took that uh a long time ago and it was right after I did my achilles and I remember While I was taking it. I felt a huge difference in it now The one thing I did notice was If as soon as I stopped taking it, I didn't get that same that same feeling like it didn't feel like And that's different. That's not a growth hormone releasing peptide. That's something different. It's a peptide Yeah, yes. Yes. Yes. And that one was injecting. Yeah, I like a yeah, it was a cue or whatever Yeah, I'd actually like shoot it in the achilles You're supposed to shoot it in the area where you have the injury and it was Supposedly speed up the process of the tissue rebuilding if I remember correctly And it felt it felt better when I was taking it, but I did notice that if I wasn't taking it I didn't I didn't feel the same. Well, speaking of of partners and stuff Now that we're working again with seed And are you guys using the probiotic that they have I've been some home Yeah, I'm getting consistent with it right now We had that little stent where we just took off to florida. So I did follow So have you noticed the difference between this and any of the other probiotics? So I I can't say that I have yet only because I don't feel like I've been consistent enough to judge it So just being completely honest and transparent to the audience Like I do remember though in the past taking seed and we we all loved it. I thought it was amazing But I haven't been consistent again with it to see if I can start to notice some things Well, my gut health has never been better now. It's not entirely because of that It was already a lot better from some other stuff that I did. This was like the icing on the cake And I and I'm pretty sure the difference is their delivery process because remember when we interviewed the founder Yeah, I did not know this at like fascinating. Yeah, that like 30 percent of of most priotic Probiotics most probiotics 30 percent of it only makes its way into the gut Is it it's in the mind? Oh, yeah, so this the the capsule itself was created so that it doesn't Release anything until it gets where it's supposed to and they use this very sophisticated Machine that simulates the gut and the small intestines and large intestines and all that stuff And I think that's the big difference because I use probiotics on and off all the time And this one is totally and I remember too when we were working with them Oh, I'm definitely dealing with all kinds of issues Right now and it's like feels like it's overgrowth. So I'm gonna have to address that.  It's been in the past like month. It's really like Accelerated so I got a with all the good stuff going on in our lives. You know, what's going on? What's happening? Yeah, it's I like to self sabotage I I think going too good. You might have you need to get tested for sebo. Yeah, see what's going on It sounds like Katrina's family would say you're harboring something Push it down there Leaks out, you know, I don't know you cut him open man. Yeah Don't try to cry about it. Don't mess with that. Anyway, so I was having a conversation with So there's a lot of babies new babies in my family So obviously Jessica, you know, we had our son 15 or 16 months ago My cousin, um, Alex just had a daughter a few months ago My brother just had a baby a year ago. My other cousin Gabriel just had a baby And so we were all together. I told you guys for my my brother's son's baptism was really cool and I'm talking to the wives And everybody's looking great and everybody's healthy and all that stuff and you know We had this conversation about like how your body is affected through pregnancy and then post pregnancy and what you deal with And you know, I tell you what it's now standard practice to have physical therapy after Surgery or after an injury. I think nobody will argue that after surgery after an injury When you heal physical therapy makes a tremendous difference. We know this and it's again It's standard practice go get surgery and they will get send you to a PT afterwards, right? Yeah, no brainer What is not standard practice what needs to be standard practice is physical therapy postpartum I agree you and now as a trainer I trained lots and lots of women postpartum once they had got clearance And it was like we were backtracking and fixing a lot of issues because they didn't do anything for for You know, however long it took for them to get clearance and there were lots of correctional things that had to do This needs to be standard care Like after having a baby you need to go to physical therapy the challenge is and again talking with the the women They're like, here's a problem. I I'm not I have a newborn I'm not going to a clinic and work which then of course I told them about luna and I'm like They will send a PT to your door. I could see this being such a it makes so much Such a huge market so underserved and such so needed, right?  How long does it typically takes? Nine weeks or six weeks something like that before they could start doing some kinds of activity I can't remember something like that, right? Yeah Fine you have a six-week-old you're going to go to An appointment with a PT. Yeah, no with your six-week-old baby. You're not going to do that I wonder if that's the reason why it's got to be because Women typically don't seek out exercise or instruction for like a year when I would get clients It was like yeah, yeah Six months to a year. It was never six weeks. Nobody ever would leave For that long with an appointment unless they were what an interesting thought I wonder if that's going to happen or not It should because at least with luna Because they send the physical therapist to your house Now you have a mother who gets clearance postpartum The baby is still there. You get experience PT who comes in and can do these movements and exercise with you Help you recover and feel better. Well, like you said, I mean it's standard practice after a major surgery to Have the follow-up with physical therapy. And so like that's basically like the same scenario like your body's healing after this You know traumatic experience I wonder if they're marketing in that direction I mean, I feel like that's low hanging fruit for them to go after that because nobody is able to serve that market They did say that this is that's one area. Oh, they're starting to see some growth The challenge is because they're growing so fast is that the demand is like they got to meet the demand with the supply But they are they're really driving. I mean we ever talked about how this company is going to revolutionize that whole Space, but I that and elder physical therapy, you know, you try like my grandparents They need physical therapy. My grandfather's gate is off his balance. He needs strength. My grandmother's in a walker now You're they don't want to leave the house Like just getting them to go to my but you know from my aunt's house and my mom's house Which is down the street is now becoming like an argument or a pain in the butt Getting them to go to a physical therapist appointment twice a week Like so they want someone to come to the house and and more often than not They will send someone to the house because they've been doing that for a while But it's still not as accepted, right? It's still not like that standard care So I I see that also being a huge part of the market. Wow Hey real quick. Do you like soda? Of course you do it's delicious The only problem is it's full of sugar and it's bad for your health Not ollie pop ollie pop is soda or it tastes like soda Except super low calories very low in sugar. It's got fiber in it and it's got compounds that are good for your gut health I'm not making this up. It's a soda That's good for your gut health and is very low in calorie ollie pop You got to check them out great product go to mind pump partners.com click on ollie pop use the code mind pump For a discount. All right. Here comes the rest of the show Our first caller is marie from california. Hey, marie. How can we help you? Hi, I just had a silly question actually so I've been prepping I have eight weeks till my next show and my coach wants me on the stair master Which I'll do but I absolutely loathe the stair master like I will try everything But that first and so I'm wondering what the significance of the stair master versus Incline walking at a fast pace like a 3.5 on a 10 incline Um, what's the significance between the two? What's the prominence of the stair master versus the incline walk those kinds of things? Yeah, good question First off, why do you think it's a silly question? Yeah, no, it's a good question.  Let's put it that way. Here's Good. Here's the most significant difference between the two. Okay.  Now is one gonna burn more calories than the other one? Yeah I mean, uh stair masters tend to burn more calories and walking fast on an uphill. It's not a huge difference. You could easily make it make up for it with A calorie reduction or maybe a faster pace Honestly, I don't understand why coaches are so weird About specific cardio applications and I almost feel like their goal is to make it As miserable as possible like they get off on Really hammering people and making them do stuff that they don't want to do but No, there's not a I mean not a huge.  Well, I mean She'll burn more if it's If she all she does is walk incline most of the time and she never does stair master There's value in that because of the novelty of it, right just because it is different So it's not just it's not just purely getting your heart rate up. It's it's a different uh modality So the fact that it's new and different that's part of why you probably hate it You don't like it and there is some benefit that but that's not what I want to address because you You wrote your question and I can actually see it right now And there's a part that you left out that your coach is not going to like me addressing right now But this is this is also how I made my bones in the space because so many coaches did this and it just Didn't make sense to me. Tell me what he or she had you doing the during the bulking phase Were you doing cardio during the bulking phase? I was it wasn't as much. It was about 30 minutes four to five times a week Um, not very not very uh intense and no hit and now I have some hits In conjunction with incline walk and or stairs And so um, I'm not doing we're not bulking anymore But I think one of the reasons why I hate the stairs so much is um, I exert way more energy Almost like an asthmatic effect like I just can't stay on there very long My endurance on the stairs is miserable compared to the incline walk I don't know if there's a difference in that Well, there's so this is part of the benefits of it though too, right? So You're you've probably become very adapted to walking That your body's become very efficient at it. Therefore, it's not going to burn as much Energy as it would if you were on the stair master So there's the really the now there's some people that love the stair master They do it all the time and then I would tell them to go do the elliptical the bike or something else because they never do that So the thing that the thing that's going to bring you the most benefit is the thing that you never do Do you ever if you never row then go row instead? There's a lot of there's lots of different Cardio modalities that you can do to gain those benefits But if you do the same thing all the time consistently weeks in months out years out as far as your mode Of cardio then your body is going to be most efficient at that And when you're trying to burn more calories burn more body fat and you're in your case getting ready for a show Then doing something that you're not used to doing is going to benefit you the most for cardio but I'm not done addressing this coach because it This this does never make sense to me why these coaches Keep cardio in there in the routine all the time because We would be far better off in during the bulk if you eliminated all cardio And we we would only need to add enough calories so you could add less calories and get the same benefits bulking I also would get the benefit of you taking off all cardio So then when I reintroduced your walking Incline that you haven't been doing for the last three to four months your body's going to respond again Like it's it's a new stimulus So it always it always blew my mind when these coaches During a bulking season would still have their clients Doing cardio even even though you're you're saying 30 minutes for 30 minutes four to five times a week My my female clients were doing that four weeks out from a show That oh wow Yeah, and we didn't get we didn't start doing our cardio till the last week or two Because yeah, we we adjusted Our our weight our weight routine and our calories To lean you out and I'd rather do it that way as much as possible until we get to the final weeks and use calories that's exactly what I was going to say because You're especially intense cardio while you're dieting. I'm sure your calories are really low While you're doing a lot of resistance training You're you're you may be sacrificing muscle Because of this adaptation signal I I don't get it I think again I say it's trivial because the difference because because you can make up for it with Chloric, you know restriction or dropping calories a little bit And or you might even have a faster metabolism by not doing So much intense cardio on top of your intense resistance training on top of a calorie Deficit, this is that's why I made that comment. I feel like coaches are like Let's see how much we can beat this person up Because and I just don't I just don't understand it's really not a scientific Approach, uh, so it's not at all. It's it's the the formula for most of these coaches This is again, this is uh, I did not get into that space with the intent of becoming a coach I just saw I had so many people coming up to me and asking for help And when I would assess what their coaches were telling them I thought this is so ridiculous like you have to understand that when you're in a cut like sal saying You're you're restricting calories already and then if you go add intense cardio The signal you're sending to the body is not one to keep muscle And that's part of part of the goal of us bulking together So if I just bulked you for you know two months or three months before we get ready for our stage and get ready for our cut Obviously the goal is to hang on to as much of that muscle you and I worked for building as possible So that for me that means I want to I want to minimize how much intense cardio I do with you. I only want to do it in those last few weeks as a like kind of an emergency like, okay Okay, we're getting ready. We were almost ready for stage.  Yeah, what are your calories at? Right now before boy Okay, so right now I'm at 1640. Um I have 40 grams of fat a day Um, and then the rest is split between the protein and the carbs But my last last show last year around this time the coach I was using had me at 600 calories towards the end. So I have a different coach now Um working much better with feeding, but I'm kind of freaking out because I'm eight weeks out and my body's not responding So yeah, well eight. Okay. Hold on eight weeks out 1600 calories You're doing how much cardio and how much resistance training every week? Oh gosh, I love the gym. I'm kind of addicted. I know I've listened to your show before So I know I should take a little more time off, but it makes me happy to go So I'm about five sometimes. I'll still go that sixth day and just keep it lighter um, and it's pretty intense my leg days are Easily two and a half hours and I'm really I'm lifting very heavy And um, and I've got five kids. So it's taking me a lot longer to get this off my body And then my my shoulder days maybe an hour and a half then some cardio cardios four to five days a week About 30 minutes each time and then on top of that three out of those five days I'm doing hit with the cardio. Okay. Wow, this is it's so hard about this Sorry, so I'll cut you off there But I just want to make the point that no matter what you say or what I say right now It's like it's too little too late. Yeah, I mean that when we get somebody That like yourself who asked me a question like this and we're in the middle of a cut You know a lot of times I normally tell them like listen just ride it out with your coach They're paying attention to you more than I'm paying attention every day Uh, but the next time when we get out of this show, there is a much better way for us to approach this prep Sorry south for cutting. Yeah. No, I was just you know, I look if you were a family member a friend of mine I'd say If you could just not do this Stop and if you okay fine if you want to finish this show do it Don't do this again Okay, you got to use a little bit of logic here and I say that not because you're not logical But because I know there's a lot of emotion and energy behind it. So look at this logically. Okay You're lifting weights for hours Five days a week not like a 45 minute workout but hours and sometimes over two hours You're doing five days a week of cardio on top of that an additional three hit workouts You got five kids You're doing you're doing you're doing this for a decent period of time your calories are 1600 Which tell me you're probably going to be closer to a thousand By the end of this prep Does this seem like something that could cause long-term damage to your body and your health The likes of which will be paying the price for for years to come answer that question yourself You don't have to give me the answer but think about that for a second because What you don't because I see this all the time or I've seen this many times people do this And then afterwards like why you know, I've been I've been trying to reverse diet for two years Why aren't my hormones going back to normal? Why am I gaining weight? What happened to me? And it's like it's because of what you did. So I'm not trying to scare you But this is just the truth. Okay, if you looked at all these numbers All the stuff that I listed out. It's kind of crazy.  I mean sal brings up a good point too I mean this is the type of this the where we're heading right now Could set you up for metabolic damage, but at the bare I mean that's less likely what's more likely to happen Is that you're doing five six days of an you know hour of cardio? You're cutting your calories down to 1200 or less You're training like crazy and then you get down to the show way Let's say you look awesome and then you come out of that It's like there's no way you're maintaining that you're going to come and then when you come back out Boy is the is the weight going to come on fast and it's going to be really tough to speed that metabolism back up So you're right sows right if you were if you were a family member of mine or someone very close to me I would urge you not to do the show where you're currently at and then Let's talk about what it would look like if you were to do this I think in a in a healthier way, which would have been first of all We would have before I even let you get here by the way when I coach my clients For shows they often time I get called or reached out to and they'd say hey adam I want to do a show in november Can you can I hire you to do that? I said that's not how it works What I'm gonna do and what I would say as a coach is that what I'm gonna do Is we're going to prep you off season, which I say is the most important part of competing is the off season And then when I feel that your metabolism is in a very healthy place Then we'll then we'll plan a show from there because what I don't know is how long is it going to take me to get someone like you Up to a healthier place of calories say 2,500 calories or so a day without putting any body fat on That could take us a month or two. It could take us six months to get there longer So a good coach would do that a good coach wouldn't allow you to pick a show a good coach would say Let's first get you in a good place or let me assess where your metabolism is now Because I want you to be able to eat somewhere between 2300 on the low end 2700 on the high end Amount of calories with no cardio Just maybe straight training three four times a week and you're not putting on body fat But being able to maintain if you're there then i'm like, okay, we're in a good place right now with no cardio 2700 calories a day training three to four days a week maintaining I have a lot of room now to manipulate calories to add cardio to manipulate the intensity in your training To set you on a nice eight week to 10 week prep to get you ready for a show that That is the way you want to get ready and if you're if you're starting prep And you're not in the mid 2000 calorie ways calorie wise You're probably not in a good place to be cutting for a show. That's my opinion. Sorry. Sorry. We all sound so negative That's okay. Oh, I was at I was at 2300 just before the cut and then that's when we dropped down Um to 1640 and so I was there and with my last show even though I was at about 600 calories a day close to the show I never lost my period at all. It stayed regular And um, I just had my hormone levels checked before starting this last prep and everything was optimal I just bringing up testosterone is the tad Um, so I'm I'm watching my my levels and it seems like my body's okay. Um, I responded well I sleep good. I mean the markers are there. It's but I did do the cardio when I was at 2300 calories Yeah, you shouldn't have been we would want to be we would want to be able to maintain And then also only training three four days a week. I don't need you to be doing more Especially in a bulk in a bulk, you know, we're focused on building muscle strength I want recovery and rest and calorie surplus is way more of an importance at that point And then when we when we would transition Okay, when I would transition you from that bulk of doing no cardio to now into your cut for a show The cut doesn't start with cardio the cut starts with me either one adding training volume or adding more Intensity or adding more days and lifting or a slight reduction in calories or a mix of both. Maybe I drop you to 2100 calories I let you lift in the gym an extra day or two or we increase the volume in your training So one way or another that way and then we watch and see what happens your body if if I did my job correctly I should start to see nice change Just from that and then we're going to ride that way for a couple weeks Until I see you kind of start to slow down or plateau and then again I'm either going to one I have more days to add volume and intensity or Restrict calories or maybe I ask you to do a walk, you know, I said now I want you to do an hour walk every day There's a lot of things that we do but cardio I'm saving intense cardio To the damn near end because I know that we just came off of a bulk where I'm trying to build muscle with you And I know a calorie deficit With high intensity cardio is the perfect recipe for your body to pare down muscle And so I want to leave that to be the very last thing that we potentially do Gotcha. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it's still so new and I'm like, oh my gosh, why am I doing? Are you in our are you right? Are you in our forum by chance? I don't think so not yet. I just listened to you pretty much every morning when I get ready Okay, so I'm going to have Doug add you to our our facebook private forum We actually have a lot of competitors in there So a lot of people that there's there's even a few girls in there that I have trained So it's a great community Um, and I would and there's some people that have done this show themselves with no coaches just from Talking to our community and getting help from all of us. So I just urge you to get in there We'll figure out things after whatever you decide to do for this show or not But going forward, um, you know use that use that community to kind of help you through your process Okay, perfect. That's great. Thank you so much. No problem. Thanks for calling I what percentage would you say Adam of people who do these shows? What percentage of them would you say do it in a relatively healthy way very little very I mean like I said it was um I had no intentions of coaching like none at all it was it was but it was almost like I felt I felt compelled to like I felt so bad for so especially the bikini competitors because I feel like They they get uh, um abuse the most and in getting ready for shows. It's like this There is there's this one there's this down on cardio. Yeah, there's this weird idea And this is this is also prevalent in the men's space, too It's not just women that do this too men are guilty of this too, which always blew on this idea of doing all this cardio In the office and by the way, okay Remember when we're talking about this because you might hear me contradict myself if I'm talking to a health person Or someone who wants just to be healthy, right? We're not talking. We're talking about sport right now How to maximize this how to do it in the safest smartest fastest healthiest way There's some things that my rules change a little bit here that person in a bulk I don't want them doing any cardio. I want why doesn't make sense for them Now if you're if in general health who's somebody that's a different situation So the way these these uh coaches prep these these bikini girls for shows It just doesn't make any sense that it's not science based at all It's like star view and work you to death. Yeah, and then it literally what it is is The the the girl or the guy who wins the show was the one who was just could adhere to the most punishment or Had the best genetics going into it had the most resilient. Yes genetics to the damage. Yeah Yeah, I would even venture to say just if you if you look at the the whole picture The fact that it who it attracts So who's attracted to a sport where you're presenting your body on stage to get it judged When you look at the caloric restriction the overtraining The types again the types of people it attracts It's a perfect recipe for eating disorders body image issues hammered and in damaged bodies and hormones and It's just it's got to be one of the the most unhealthy places To compete, you know regardless of sports just it just doesn't seem like a good idea for most people So if you're thinking about doing it like really really consider all the stuff that we just mentioned, you know, uh Rochelle is in our forum and I got her like this She had already kind of gone through this with other coaches and stuff like that and we we linked up And so she's a great person.  You're in our forum. You're thinking about getting in there But get a chance that she's amazing too. Like she's an open book She'll share like her experience both before me and then after coaching with me And I think she's she's full of wisdom very very smart Um and and we'll share and she's completely natural athlete and looked incredible After we got ready for a couple shows. So talk to her if you're in our forum Next caller is Nate from texas. What's up, Nate? How can we help you? What's going on y'all? How y'all doing man? Good. Good. Good man. What's up? Hey man? I just want to say it's exciting man. It's good to it's good to be able to be on here man because Uh, this is like something so new for me. I don't I've never actually been involved in some stuff like this So it's cool. It's cool, man So I just want to say I appreciate y'all everything y'all do man It's cool. Y'all send a just a super positive message the vibes y'all send y'all help so many people So I just want to say that off the rip Now my my whole my whole deal here is that I I've been training for a while man. I've been you know Implementing a lot of different things and I've been learning all this new stuff I've actually been studying to be a personal trainer now and When I'm when I'm trying to create these programs what's going on is I'm learning, you know, I need to incorporate all these different planes of motion, you know And I need to I need to make sure I'm doing transverse I need to you know, I need to incorporate sagittal in front of but When I'm creating a single workout, you know I'm trying to figure out is it best for me to Incorporate all the three planes of motion into one workout or should I try to like phase different? Plains of motion now. I know that like when you're doing like speed and agility and balance you really kind of want to focus Your your attention on certain Like performance aspects, but when I'm doing a single workout You know, sometimes I get caught in the in the mode where I just want to I want to do all these bench press and And all these rows and I want to do these pull-ups and you know I feel like for the general public The best way for the general public would be to kind of incorporate a little bit of everything But then again in one single workout. I also feel like it's best to just focus on Certain things at at one time. So that's really my my issue is when I'm creating a single workout How is it best to incorporate either all three planes of motion? Or should I be phasing or breaking it up into different segments? Yeah, neat Cool question. Welcome to the world of personal training. So here's your answer. They're both right It depends. Yeah, so depends who you're working with What the goal is the rep ranges if you're focusing on strength or speed or What body parts general health? I mean both are fine. Both are totally fine I would look at I would look at a little bit more broad So maybe throughout the week. You definitely want to incorporate all three planes of motion In one workout you don't necessarily have to I mean you can do You know squats overhead press bench press and rows In one workout and then the next workout now you can incorporate some something, you know rotational lateral So I would look at it more like that But it depends who I'm working with and what their goals are and how their body's moving And so this is why it's it's an almost impossible question to answer I think the general answer for the general person Would be to make sure you incorporate all of them throughout the week I would say but again that can change depending on the person I'm working with with some people I would do it every workout and with other people I would maybe do it a little less if we need to focus more like if I'm just focusing on Strength like I got a I got a kid. I'm training. We're trying to pack on some muscle and some strength They're not necessarily playing any sports Then I'm going to be okay avoiding certain planes of motion when I'm just trying to pack on mass And then later on I'm going to start to incorporate more of those planes of motion It depends on the person it really does so there's no clear, you know, I can't give you a straight 100 answer with this one Yeah, yeah, and you'll notice I bet you've gone through like our mass performance and like I don't know if you've gone through I just haven't had a chance man. I've got so much stuff going on. I got kids and everything else It's just gonna yeah, it's kind of tough getting into stuff But it's more of a like a personal deal. I want to be able to figure it out, you know Within myself, you know, it's just like y'all say it you're always You're always the worst trainer for yourself, you know, so like I focus on a lot of stuff myself, but then whenever I'm able to talk to other people I can give such good advice, but it's so hard to follow it So I really want to learn more for myself that way I can show other people and that's really where I'm at Yeah, what I was alluding to was we actually had like a devoted section a phase For multi-planar movement and That was intentional because of the lack of of that focus in a lot of programming, especially when you mentioned You know just real strength pursuits Where we're trying to reduce it down to just a few exercises that give you the most bang That are usually bilateral loaded And it's in the sagittal plane and so, you know, it's nice and controlled that way so we can build a nice base You know in terms of strength, but What where your mindset is I think is great because we really do need to Consider all those different other functions that the body's capable of so that way we don't You know sort of prune that off to where we're now we don't want to miss it out Right. So so I do think that Incorporating a phase specific is you know an option You know sprinkling them in in terms of complimentary exercises to the strength phases You could do So, yeah, there really isn't like a very definitive answer to this other than just keep that in mind that there's You know these other planes we need to consider and keep that movement happening. I listen that you You've already won half the battle the fact that you recognize the importance of it And that you're trying to figure out how to program it. You're already ahead of the game So and and basically saying the same thing that the guys are saying the reason why no one's giving you this definitive answer because you could you could play with this I mean, that's a fun part about being a trainer is that you you know, you recognize the importance of incorporating all the different planes And so, you know, maybe one client I decide I'm going to do a phase like Justin was just talking about how we do in performance Then maybe another client. I'm just going to do a day, right? So maybe I have like what Sal was saying like a kid who's really focused on being strong And that is his main goal that he's telling you but I also recognize the importance of training in different planes with him So maybe the you know, two or three of the workouts during the week are very, you know Maps anabolic strength type of programming very sagittal plane base the same kind of planes of motion And then one day a week I have a whole day dedicated to all the other planes and we do some dynamic stuff in there And so there's a lot of different ways that you can play or every day I incorporate Rotational and transverse plane type so you could do some fun stuff here and and play around with it And it does really like Sal was saying depend on the client's goal Whatever the client's goal is I want to spend a bulk of my time Addressing that adaptation whatever it may be whether it be building strength Body fat, you know sculpting and developing a certain muscle. That's where the bulk of my programming is But as you know, keeping integrity as a trainer and knowing that it's important for overall joint health and longevity I want to make sure they can train in all planes I'm going to incorporate it at least Somewhat within the program and how much of that would really depend on How focused they are or how much I think they need that like or how much they're potentially lacking in and you can You can accomplish this too through mobility drills in ways of doing that without a loaded Exercise, so, you know, you can you can do this as primers. We do this before our workouts even To address certain rotational movements and joint function So that way we get it to respond better within the workouts Um, so yeah, there's just a lot of ways you can sort of implement this Not just having to prescribe the entire workout devoted to multiple planes. Do you have mass performance? I don't We're gonna send it to you. Okay. Yeah, we're gonna send it over to you Bro, I'm gonna tell you right now. I'm super appreciative like that's really one of the things I've really been wanting to do is actually run a real program a good one You know, but that's that's like I'm super appreciative Follow that follow that program Nate and then after you go through that from what we've just talked to you about I think you'll have a really good idea on how to go from there and incorporate it for your clients There's a lot of different tools in there And there's a lot of different ways that you can use the tools in there For your future clients and but the one thing I think you should do and stick to it Follow the program as it's laid out So you can get the full benefits of everything that we did in there And then after that you can pluck and pull whatever you like and implement it into your own program Thanks for calling in Nate. Appreciate it. Hey, man. Thank y'all man. Y'all keep being good Keep being you man. Y'all doing so much great stuff, man. I appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you I like Nate. Love that dude's energy. I love that guy's energy Yeah, you know what the when it comes to the different planes. I what you said Justin was I'm so glad you said that You don't have to do Loaded hypertrophy based exercises in all the planes necessarily You can do, you know, much of that in the maybe sagittal plane and then do dynamic mobility stuff in some of the other Well, especially since the point you brought up about, you know, if you had a kid, let's say 25 year old kid relatively pretty healthy good mobility good decent movement not dealing with any sort of joint pain anything Just wants to get big built some we're gonna we're gonna focus on strength 90 90 percent of the workout is going to look very maps and a ball of gas But then you can take Elements from like performance and mobility days like just that's a great point And you just just to keep that just to keep them mobile in different parts Now I will say when it comes to building a balanced symmetrical physique even just from an aesthetics standpoint Focusing on the different planes is a bit of a hack because it does work All the muscles of the body and does develop a lot of balance and you know aesthetics isn't just how you look when you're stationary There's aesthetics with how you walk and move and training those different planes develops Aesthetic movement, so we we've all seen the meathead in the gym that if you pose for a picture Would look okay, but then you see the moving something doesn't look right And oftentimes that comes from just lack of Movement ability in different planes. They always train in one particular way Well, this is the reason why we were all very adamant about the second program being performance Totally, right. I mean in the in the ideal world pretty much regardless of your goal Whether it's overall health fat loss muscle buildings. I don't care Doesn't matter what your goal is the ideal way to follow the program programs What we laid them out is anabolic first performance and then aesthetic from there There's lots of different pathways and we can get into customizing it But for the general population regardless of your goals We really tried to address all the main things we would want a client to focus on in those three programs Our next caller is parth from massachusetts. What's up parth? How can we help you? Hey guys, um, first of all, I really want to thank you I've been listening to mind pump for the down two years now And um earlier I used to hate doing daily chores like doing the dishes laundry or cooking Now I look forward to them since I always have mind pump on so tell your wife you're welcome Are you putting those are you putting those dishes away right in the dishwasher? Hopefully So I have two questions, uh, both kind of unrelated to each other The second question is more topical since we just had uh, valentine's day So, uh, so my first question is about training volume Uh, just to give you some background. I used to be overweight in 2019 Um, I read bigger leaner stronger and learned about calorie deficit And then I got down to 10 body fat. Wow So since last year, I've been really trying to lean bulk And I have been following the bls routine since November But I feel like my volume is inadequate Since I'm gaining around 1.5 to 2 pounds per week. So my calorie intake is on point. I track my sleep I'm a consistent person in general So my first question is, uh, how do you really know if you are doing too few exercises or sets or volume? And should I be changing my routine? Oh, that's a good question. Well, first off your mic. Matthews is a good friend of ours and he's got good information So if you're following something that he's recommending chances are you doing most things right? Okay, so let's now put that aside for a second Let me ask you a few questions.  Um, so I have like an in body scanner at home, which isn't really accurate But it sort of helps me identify trends. And so I know my body fat percentage is going up Okay, like I mean because here's the thing that from just first glance The the pound to two pounds a week is not necessarily bad And the fact that we know that you're you're gonna probably put on a little bit of body fat How is it? Uh, is it moving relatively fast compared to where you I mean and what you said was perfect too You're watching trends, right? So that's what matters most is where you were before you trend on the in body scan Where were you uh before you started the bulk and then where are you now? Yeah, so so close to so this is again These are not accurate numbers since it's the machine. So I'm just identifying trends But basically in august 2020 the machine showed that my body fat percentage was around 10 11 percent And right now I'm at 19 percent Okay, and I'm I weigh 195 pounds back then when I was at my leanest I was 157. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah, so okay So yeah, I mean The way that I would judge the fat gain muscle gain or the way I would correct that is really with my caloric intake So I would bring the calories down a little bit. You might be in too much of a caloric surplus now in regards to your workouts Uh, are you getting stronger? Do you are you building good muscle? Do you feel improvements in performance? If the answer to that is yes, then you're doing you're okay. Now if the answer to that is no Um, then the other questions I would ask are do you feel excessively sore? Fatigued stiff or inflamed if the answer is yes to that then I'd say you're doing too much volume Not the other way around now if you're not gaining muscle And you're not getting super sore. You're not feeling stiffness. You feel really good Uh, then maybe you can increase some volume in your workouts, but it really depends on on those things Let's talk about the calories a little bit. Where where were you? In the cut and then where were you what where are you at now calorie wise? So what's yeah, absolutely So so my td e is around 2,500 My when I when I'm on my lean bulk.  Sorry your total weight was 157 at 10% body fat Now you're 190 at 19% body fat. That's correct. Uh, according to the machine. Yes Okay, so your lean body mass went from 141 to 153 That's pretty damn good. That's not bad. Yeah, but he also went from 157 to 190 Right, which is why I think that you just a little too much calories But everything else is pretty good Like when what Sal was alluding to earlier about, you know, if you're getting stronger and we're putting muscle on There's not a problem with the volume of training Your volume of your volume of training is is probably spot on and you're doing just fine You're probably just either one Under estimating how many calories you're actually eating or you just didn't need that much And so I would just instead of doing 28 2900 I'd probably pull back more like 24 2500 and see how your body responds Well, can you tell me I'm not as familiar with his programming in terms of like rep range and like what we're switching up Phase wise like what what does that look like for you and have you done like a one to five rep range? Yeah, absolutely. So BLS usually has around four exercises Three of them are compound movements and then the one is usually an isolation So on a typical chest day you have a incline bench press Normal bench press and then incline bench press with dumbbells and then probably a rear fly So you usually have Three compounds and one isolation and you're supposed to go you're supposed to do three hard sets for each of these compounds And the rep range is Usually four to seven four to eight. Yeah, you're it's a body part split, right? Yes, so it's uh, yes, it's a four-day routine. I am following the four-day routine, but it's uh upper lower Core throw month performance or aesthetic. Yeah, I was gonna say now. How often have you switched that up in terms of, you know Like changing all the acute variables Oh, yeah, it's been a while. I haven't switched it up since uh, November last year. Yeah, that would be my recommendation Parth let's I'm we're gonna map center baller parth. I'm gonna send you maps in a baller So I love Mike. He's got great programming. I think we're a little better just because We've trained a lot of new stimulus. Yeah, but no, Mike's great. Okay, but I'm gonna have you I'm gonna send you maps in a ball. Here's what I want you to do.  So there's two options. There's two or three foundational workouts a week I want you to do the three foundational workouts a week and then on every other off day I want you to do three trigger sessions a day. So let's switch to that program and you should see faster muscle growth And a boost in metabolism. I think it wouldn't hurt you also to maybe reduce calories a little bit So, you know, maybe not go all the way down to what your cut was at 22 Maybe land somewhere around 25 26 and see how you feel with also switching the stimulus with the new Programming those two things. I think we should see Nice, hopefully if we do a really good job, you actually don't see the scale move too much You feel like you're getting a little stronger and a little leaner if we hit the if we hit you Right where we want to calorie wise And with the new stimulus we should kind of see that response So the other part I want to do so we can keep up with you because I'm very curious to see how Your body responds when we do this is let's throw you you're not in our private forum. Are you No, all right. I'm have Doug put you in our private forum So make sure you look for access in the facebook private Mind pump private forum And then I would just love to get some updates from you just tag When anytime you get in the forum and you write anything To make sure that one of us sees it just make sure you tag us And then we'll keep an eye on how the programming and everything is going. Yeah, and that's that's wonderful That's actually a great segue to my next question So so I actually recently moved in with my girlfriend and before her I used to be super laser focused with my tracking calories Like in the last two to two and a half months. And so now that we cook and eat together Tracking has actually gotten much harder. Even though I still track So my question is what are some strategies you would recommend for tracking and staying focused for nutrition? Even when you are sharing food with someone who doesn't really track Well, since you're watching a new girlfriend since you're washing all the dishes doing all the laundry and doing all the chores I would ruin everything. Yeah, I would I would say look. I'm doing all the chores You need to weigh and measure my food. So here's what here's what I do with When so Katrina actually used to cook for me and we'd actually eat relatively normal meals for somebody who was prepping for shows So and I only had to do it one one time it does it's a little bit of work the first time But yeah, and I think this is the easy way to do when you like let's say you make like so she makes this quinoa pasta dish I love it reminds me of like lasagna It's got some it's got ground beef or ground turkey we put in it But what I do is the the first time that she preps it I actually calculate everything that's going in it right because I'm not going to eat that whole pan in one sitting But I can figure out the total protein in there the total carbs the total fat in the whole dish And then based off of how many squares I have did I eat a quarter of it? Did I eat half of it did I eat three quarters of it? I can get a more accurate estimation on a on a dish that would be really hard for people to track Where people go wrong is they don't calculate all that up and they just kind of try and guess they try afterwards Yeah, they try afterwards to try and figure it out and that can get really tough to estimate your calories And then once I've done that one time, you know, I don't know how what you guys are like But you know, I tend to rotate through the same 10 dinners or so, you know, I'm saying like and once I've got it written down one time I've got a pretty good estimation on how many calories how much protein which are the two main things that I'm really paying attention to when I'm tracking Does this dish have and how much of that dish what what fraction of that did I eat of that dish? Because I'm probably going to put the other half in the refrigerator. I can kind of figure out That's my recommendation on trying to do trying to, you know Eat normal with a girlfriend and have you know prepare meals like that Is it's a little little work at the beginning to track and figure out what the total amount is in the dish? But once I got that down Anytime I go really like another thing I love to do is like a big chili dish rich That's got all kinds of stuff in it Which would be really hard to figure out if I'm just like spooning it in from this big pot But if I know what the total pot is I have a better Estimation on what I'm probably consuming and does that make sense? Absolutely. No, that's that's really helpful Yeah, and so before we end this conversation, I just have one quick message for for your audience So so until seven months ago I used to be the guy who would straight away skip two questions and answers Since I felt that that's where I got most value and boy. I was wrong Soon enough I realized that I have soon enough I realized what I had been missing out on and how much fun and info packed the introductions are So so my advice is don't be that guy It's it's it's like skipping leg day I love that bro. Thank you. Thank you part. See you in the forum man. Thank you. All right Yeah, that's uh, I mean he was on track. You've just seen a little too much Yeah, no, you know what at now after we heard the second question He's probably underestimating what he's eating. Yeah, yeah, I mean he's happy. He's probably Yeah, how that is. Yeah, but I mean as far as everything else I mean, I think he's he's pretty damn cool I bet you the only thing is happening is that he he probably increased a little more than he needed and or He was also probably uh, under calculating what he's just like dinner is really the big That's why I use that that's why I use that uh example is what we would do And that's a Katrina and I would do it It would be a little laborious the the first like getting it all tracked one time You know, there's two pounds of meat in here. That's right. Yeah a pound of pasta or whatever. Yeah, and Attention to that one meal. Yeah, and then it's easier to estimate Normally, I would eat half of whatever it is. She normally eats about a quarter There's normally, you know another quarter quarter and a half that's left over and I can get an idea of okay What I just and I just learned something too from this question and that is that we help people do chores So if your partner is not doing enough chores, have him listen to my pump doing good things Our next caller is yank on from Missouri. What's up yank on? How can we help you? Hey guys, uh, first off, I just want to really thank you guys. Um, Appreciate the time to you know, take my call. Um, basically Uh, let me start off by kind of telling you how I got back into, uh, I guess just getting more fit. Um in August of 2021, um, I decided You know, I wanted to try to see if I can be a live donor for my brother kidney donor. So Um, I was trying to talk to him like ask him like what the process was and he was saying no Like don't worry about it.  Um, so I ended up finding it out myself and um, I was trying to take like the preliminary stuff to to take the tests and Basically, they reject me because you know 510 to 35 They were like, yeah, you're like obesity overweight And I was trying to make my case like look, I still play volleyball Like I play sports like on a daily basis and this stuff They're just like your bmi is like way off the charts like you'd have to lose some weight So that kind of kick started everything and um, I got down to 195 by november um, and then I just uh Kept I did it again And they uh, they accepted me that time, but um long story short It didn't happen because uh, it with it being a second donor It would have had to be like a blood and um and uh Antibody match and we weren't that but um, basically like I really like woke me up because I was like, what am I doing with my life because you know, he's like In a hospital like two three times a year with like blood poisoning and stuff and like I'm just here like in the Like the heartland of America just like eating just crap food and stuff and so I like was like I know I lost weight like horribly It was like the worst way to do it. Um And so I was like I need to find out like, you know ways to you know Get myself in in a shape better and in healthier ways and so I found you guys and um, basically um I'm currently at 184 right now. I have uh A couple goals in mind. Um, I feel like they're pretty ambitious for what I want to do But at the same time, it's like kind of everywhere for what I want to be able to dunk the ball Basketball and I want to be able to get into the 1000 club. Um, but This last month we actually just found out We're going to be moving to Malaysia in july, so Um, my wife's got a job there and I'm going to be able to you know, be a stay-at-home dad for a little bit work us some coding stuff, but um It's got me like really flustered because I feel like I'm in a really good spot like in terms of like where like my journey of fitness and I'm just like kind of like how do you Deload or if that's even You know an option or like, you know, um What do I do to kind of prep for that move and once I get there like what's something I can do while looking for a gym Yeah, good question. Okay. So whenever I Would go travel or whenever I'd have a client travel And they weren't going to work out while they were gone I wouldn't de-load leader leading up to the vacation or the travel. I would actually push them a little bit past Over training so that that time off is more recovery. So in other words, let's say I'm not going to work out for two weeks or a week I'm going to train even harder a little bit more volume leading up to it so that that time off A lot of it is recovery and and recuperating and it kind of helps balance out that Time off. That's that would be my approach. So I wouldn't de-load. I would work out hard. Maybe even harder Leading up to the time off now while you're gone If do you have maps anywhere? Um, I don't I I'm sorry. I should have mentioned. I'm a new I'm a new listener. I started listening guys in uh back in December Okay, I'll send you maps anywhere. It's a workout program. It requires no equipment except for resistance bands It's an exceptional workout program. It blew up During the pandemic when gyms are locked down and people loved it so much that uh now people are incorporating it All the time in the routine. So we're gonna send that over to you. It's a great program. Follow that until you find A gym you can work out in can we send them anabolic for now though? Because when when do you actually leave because wouldn't you when you want them doing like anabolic right now and then switch to anywhere Are you how long do you have? Oh, you said you're moving in july. So you got some time, right? Yeah, yeah run anabolic. Well either anabolic or something even higher volume leading up to it like maps aesthetic Just to get you like I said to that point where you're pushing a little past and then you have that recovery While how long do you think you're not going to work out for by the way? I'm hoping not too long because like I kind of go crazy if I don't do anything so I mean I've kind of like googled places around and our first thing is like We're going to be stuck uh pretty much Like like add a workplace for at least a month until we can like buy a car out there and every gym's like At least 10 minutes away. Got it prx. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna say I'm gonna send you Maps anabolic and in lead lead up to and then as soon as you can't have you don't have equipment do maps anywhere You can literally do it anywhere. So you need no equipment for it. Just get yourself some good resistance bands You'll be totally set Awesome. Well, I really appreciate that guys. Thank you so much. Yeah, no problem Yeah, did you guys ever do that with clients where they would have time off? So you train a little harder? Oh, yeah The one thing I wanted to address with him that we we didn't get a chance to kind of get into was He he admittedly said that he lost all that weight probably the wrong way So I'm assuming that met a lot of cardio and low calorie So my concern was just throwing him into like a high volume program again. I see that yeah So anabolic was the direction. I thought we should take him first to build up his metabolism He's got time before he goes in July. Plus.  You can work out in a closet with that program And then the other thing that you know, here's I mean, it's a plug for our partner prx like A lot of people don't know this but they have this they have this set up to where it's like paying a membership So if you I mean, obviously if you buy a whole gym set up for your garage that is awesome Like their setup is it could be pretty expensive to do it all once so they offer it to do like a payment plan So it's like it hits you like a yeah a gym membership So, you know, if I understand that moving can be expensive He may not be working right now. So asking him to spend $10,000 on equipment was probably unrealistic Pay monthly like a membership. But yeah, if you were going to go get a membership at a gym anyways Uh, it's probably not going to be that much more and now you have it in your house So you don't have to go anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, so that's a good way to do it Plus they give you a lot of different options for bundles. So that way you just get the essentials you need to keep it gone So yeah, that's that's a great option to have excellent Look, if you like our information head over to mind pump free.com and check out our guides We have guides that can help you with almost any fitness goal You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on instagram at mind pump Justin Adam is on instagram at mind pump adam and you can find me on twitter at mind pump sal