name's Alyssa Macy and I'm a citizen of the Confederated Tribes of Warm Springs and I'll be moderating for an opportunity to hear from these lovely ladies here. I want to read something that I picked up in the artist's repertory theater yesterday when we went to see a show. And I was really very happy when I read this and they actually read it on stage but it's an acknowledgement that their theater rests on the traditional lands of the Multnomah, Wasville, Cowlitz, Clackamas, bands of Chinook, Tualatin, Califoya, Molalla, and many other tribes who made their homes along the Columbia River. Really, I think touching to be in a theater space and actually have a non-indigenous space start out in that way. It just made me pause and say, I want to definitely come back to this theater so I wanted to read this because it's on their wall. They also have it posted in their brochure. So I have the great honor of being able to moderate tonight's panel put on by the artist's repertory theater with Naya and in sponsorship by Grand Lawn, And we're here tonight to talk about responsibility to represent. These ladies are going to share a little bit about their own responsibilities to their community and how their community inspires, empowers, and helps them in the work that they do for the future generations of their own people and also Indigenous artists. So I wanted to start out by asking you each to introduce me and how their community inspires, empowers, and helps them in the work that they do for the future generations of their own people and also Indigenous artists. So I wanted to start out by asking you each to introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about where you're from. Okay. Good evening. My name is Mary Catherine Nagel. I'm a citizen of the Cherokee Nation in Oklahoma and I was born in Oklahoma and grew up in Oklahoma, Missouri and Kansas. I now live on the Osage Reservation in Oklahoma and I'm a playwright and also a partner at a small law firm called Pipestem Law. And we do a lot of work representing tribes and tribal citizens. Our mission statement I think says something to the effect of we work to restore tribal sovereignty and jurisdiction, and we have a specific focus. We do a lot of work around domestic violence and sexual assault, and specifically with the reauthorization of the Violence Against Women Act in 2013 with the tribal jurisdiction provision. So that's me in a nutshell. Osil, Dadawadil, Dallanage, Dian, Carol, Chuen, Studi, Kaywood, Chi, Chalagi, Aya, Oklahoma. Hi, my name is Delina Studi. I'm a proud citizen of the Cherokee Nation from Oklahoma. Wadom, thank you for letting me be here tonight. It's really an honor. My story is I'm an actor and that's basically how I got started and I got tired of waiting for someone to write me a good role, so I decided to write my own. I also serve as the chair of the SAG After National Native Americans Committee, and I used to be the former chair of the Diversity Committee there as well. So basically my whole life has been dedicated to creating more roles for our people and to create more contemporary portrayals of our people.  And like Mary Catherine, our family goes way back into a lot of Cherokee politics. If you study anything about the trail of tears or the removal, you'll find our family names there. And so everything I do is, I do it in the spirit of God-Dugi, which is a Cherokee word that means the coming together of a people to celebrate, promote, and support each other. And so I just want to say thank you for being here tonight because you are participating in that spirit of God-Dugi. So Wadom. We're the Fast Wars. I'm a member of the Sochangu Lakota Nation, and I just got really emotional. Give me a second. It's just so great to be here with these ladies. I want to also personally just acknowledge the ancestors that were here and acknowledge our elders. We have elders that have been here like twice today. It's amazing. Thank you for being here. It's an honor to have all the elders here today. It's our honor to be with you, so thank you. And yeah, so I'm a playwright. I've been doing it for a long time. I'm really fortunate. It's my day job. And then I also have a consulting company called Indigenous Direction with Ty DeFoe. He was your speaker last year here for the high school. So he and I have a company where we help different organizations engage with Indigenous art audiences and arts and kind of help bridge that often really difficult cultural divide because people don't realize that we are completely different cultures. And so that's the other work I do in addition to, I guess, we've created a day job in addition to playwriting and stuff. Thank you. I wanted to start out with just a question for you. I know that when I first stepped into theater was not until I left the reservation. I grew up in Warm Springs and there was no such thing as theater. We did a lot of acting. Sort of acting crazy. We had a couple of ladies in play. I was a rabbit at one time. I was a Christian player at one time. But anyway, so what was the first time that you actually went into a theater proper? And what was that experience like for you? At what time, you know, age were you? And then how did you feel? How did that make you feel? Well, I remember I was in middle school. I went to a middle school kind of in a rural area. And my mom, we had moved to Kansas after my parents divorced. And she got tickets to Phantom of the Opera. It was on tour in Kansas City and like downtown Kansas City. So we like drove in and like went to Phantom of the Opera. And I just remember sitting there and watching and the show was so epic and so big and so huge. And I was so caught up in it. And I just wanted to... I still do that on occasion. And so I was always kind of like a theater kid. Mostly just because to get my mother a break from having to put up with me. But the first play I saw when I was seven years old, my dad and my mom decided that we should go back to the original homeland. So we went back to Gadua, North Carolina. So we went back to Cherokee, North Carolina. And I saw into these hills. And what's funny is Larissa actually worked on that later on. Not the production I saw because... Yes. But anyway. I remember going when she was seven. But my father thought it was very important that we see our native storytellers doing a theater about our history. And my father always impressed upon me at a young age that, you know, we're native. So we're the original storytellers. And so that's kind of our job is to keep the stories going. And then when I was 12 years old, I became really shy. I have severe social anxiety. I'm a big introvert. But I can, as an actor, I can pretend that I'm not. And so when I was a freshman in high school, my father picked out all my electives. I was doing speech and debate and drama. And I hated it. And then I too went to a theater camp that the Cherokee Nation actually put me through, which was wonderful. And it was then that I really loved it to the point when I came back my sophomore year. I was qualifying in all this speech and debate rounds. Like, there were 13 events and you can only qualify for 11. So I qualified for all 11. But I was so addicted to it, I loved it so much that I would show up to get on the bus and pray that one of my teammates wouldn't show up and then I could pretend to be them. And then I'd qualify under their name. So in fact, to this day, I still have the most qualifications. Like, there's a plaque with all the stuff I've qualified for, both under my name and all the names that I used. So that's my story. We moved to the big city when I was in first grade. We had a Walmart and a Kmart. I know, it's huge. Going one for, you know, 150 miles. But yeah, so I lived in the big city. So we had a community theater there. Winner didn't have any theater. Pine Ridge, I mean, Rosebud didn't have any theater. We had none of that. But when I got to Peer, we had community theater. We didn't get, like, touring shows or anything like that. But I actually, though, I wasn't a theater girl at all. I was a classical ballet dancer for the first 10 years of my professional career. And so I was pretty much on my own out there alone in South Dakota trying to be a ballet dancer. There's a whole play coming about that. My children's theater company named Minneapolis. I'm working on a CHAU right now. But yeah, so I wasn't really into theater, so I'd go. My parents were really into the arts. They both played musical instruments. I was terrible at musical instruments. I sang inquiries and things and did all that. But I was never into theater, so I'm still not a theater kid. I won't go to a play unless I absolutely have to. I'd rather go to a ballet. I'd rather go to see here music. I'd rather see art, fine art. That's what I do. I'd rather go to... I'd rather go to... I've been a pow-wow here in the back. But I hadn't ever been to... I've never been to a play here. It's kind of horrible on all my trips here. I'd rather do that. But that's our form, right? That's what we do as Indigenous people. We have our own forms of performance that we've had for thousands of years. And that's theater. And that's the thing for me that constantly makes me crazy. There is no difference. And I'm always going on. I work with a lot of youth, you know, saying, you are already doing theater. You don't have to change. You do what you do. And I will just help you make it into whatever it is you want it to be. I will help you make it into that. If you want to keep it with the community, I will just help you work in the community. If you want to put it on a stage, I'll show you how to put it on a stage without sacrificing who you are and what we bring as Indigenous people. And that's really what I try to do with other people in theater. And then my job is to write plays, so whatever. Which is great, too. That's fine. Well, there were a couple of really interesting points, Delaney, you had mentioned that we are the original storytellers. You know, that's something that our people have been doing for a really long time. And I'd like you guys to expand on that. You know, as playwrights, you are writing stories. You're writing stories about your communities, about our experiences as Indigenous people. You're writing for our own people, but you're also writing for different communities and cultures. And so, you know, I went to play yesterday, and I was the person from the commentary at the end. I appreciate you doing that. But I, you know, it just really kind of, there was a moment in the play that made me really uncomfortable. And I was like, I'm uncomfortable as a Native person in this play. And then I'm turning around and I'm looking at all of the non-Indian people, and I'm like, I really hope you guys are as uncomfortable as I am. It was one of those experiences where you're a part of this experience, and it just sort of makes you stop. And there's some real power in that for a Native person, I think, sitting in there to feel that. And I'm looking to talk about that particular piece and just kind of, I think, pushing the boundaries not only for our own community but for other communities. Yeah, that was actually my play, Thanksgiving play. Yeah, there's one scene. So the unofficial, well actually now it's official because William Met Weekly quoted me saying it. So the unofficial tagline that I give to this play is that I make fun of white people for 90 minutes, actually 80 minutes, but when people laugh it's 90 minutes. So that's really what it is. So I just, it's crazy.  Well-meaning liberal white people. Oh, hey man, it's the baby. Hi. So many people I know now here, it's so great. So anyway, so that's basically what the play is. But within that, these well-meaning white folks are trying to create a play that is about Thanksgiving, Native American Heritage Munch, politically correct, but they are doing it without the native people and still trying to be correct about it. So there is a scene in it where they reenact an actual historical event and it's something that happened and it's very horrific and gruesome and it's unfortunately true. And I personally really pushed hard and with my director here, who's here, Luanne, we pushed really hard to make it as graphic as possible within the confines of the show, which is people making something up in a room, what can they make from this room that makes it as graphic as possible. And the reason for that is really what you're talking about, right? It's amazing how many people still have no clue like how horrific genocide is. It's no joke, right? We all know that. And yet they really don't know. And so I do use it, so my play is both comedy and satire. So that's part of the satire, right? It seems like a comedic moment as we started this kind of depicting this horror and they're doing it to show the horrors of what we did and we're facing our reality.  But also a lot of folks have said to me afterwards, like, whoa, then I have to be careful when the laughing stops, right? And once it's a laughter stop, they're like, wow, what was I laughing at and should I be laughing at that and how real is that and what does this mean and what does it mean for the person next to me? And it's been lovely because last week we had so many Indigenous folks coming into the play, it was really great.  They're like checking in with the Native people and the Native folks were laughing. But it's something that I really use humor to disarm from folks and then kind of once they've kind of disarmed and use the mirror to look at yourself and think about why you're laughing at these things. Oh, goodness. So yes, I mean, similar to what Larissa does, my show is a nice blend of unpacking the history behind the Trail of Tears and also telling it from a modern-day perspective. And I've had so many people that have seen the show and would say, oh, my gosh, I didn't think the Trail of Tears could be that funny. Or that we didn't expect to laugh so much. And I feel like as Native people, if you only see us on TV or in the films, we're always very stoic. They don't really know that we have a sense of humor. And I think that's how we survive for as long as we have. It was so much intact as we can find the humor in things. We find the reason to laugh. We find that motivation to keep going. And it's wonderful. I think one of my favorite things is whenever I'm doing my show because I'm also performing my show. So not only did I write it, I'm also the only person on the stage doing it. And so I can hear the audience, which is a lot of fun for me. So a lot of times, the non-Natives in the group will be like, wait, what did she say? Did that really happen? And it's just that you hear them reacting. And that's a lot of fun for me because we're trying to unpack a lot of history that a lot of people don't know. And how do we make it entertaining? And also how do we get the point across? And I feel that's one of the great things about theater instead of film and television is it's a wonderful educational tool that's also entertaining. And because people see a real-life human being on the stage, it's easier for them to relate to us because we're not separated by that glass. And I think that's one of the ways that we kind of re-humanize who Native people are, especially to non-Native people who have never met any of us. It's not uncommon for me to do a project and I'm the only Native in the room. And then they expect me to be the ambassador of all things Native, which is always kind of fun for me. And so sometimes I joke around with people and I lie to them. Like, oh, no, no, yeah, that's how we...  No, really.  I mean, it's just fun just to watch them think you're serious. But I got that from my father. But it's, you know, it's... I feel like every minority has that responsibility and it's also a burden of always having to educate. You know, we always have to educate the dominant society about who we are and it starts weighing on you. And so I think that's one of the great things I had fun with with my show is I actually kind of address that. And I kind of, you know, we show it to them. We shine the light back on you and all of a sudden we make the people in the audience uncomfortable. I think a good piece of theater or any kind of art makes you question your privilege. And we all have privilege in some way, shape, or form, but anytime that it makes you uncomfortable then we're doing a good job. That's what we're supposed to do. Me? Oh, okay. What can I add? Yeah, I completely agree. It is interesting. I had sovereignty this last couple of months ago in D.C. and then Manhattan just opened at Oregon Shakespeare Festival and I've had numerous people come up to me and say, wow, your play hat was funny. And you know, and I'm like, well, what'd you expect it to be?  Like, yeah, but there's shocks that they laughed. And I think they think a native play, it's going to be super serious, you know, and it's not going to be funny. And I think, you know, completely agree, you have to open people's hearts and minds because there's a reason our stories have been silenced. There's a reason they're not, you know, this time not being told in history books and on the American stage, right? I mean, if you bring us out of the past and into the present, that kind of jars the American manifest destiny we deserve to be here, we're the most successful nation in the world, yay democracy, all of that, right? So, you know, if you can make people laugh and invite them in that way, then I think people are much more open to hearing the ultimate message you have to share. And then I think there's a question to share that message. And I don't have all the answers. I'm still learning because you learn from your audience when you craft the story. And I will say, in Manhattan, there is a scene where a scalping takes place. And I really talked to the actors in the show and said, I don't know if this should be in here. I mean, it happens, but maybe we don't need to see it on stage. You know, and it's in the early 1600s when the Dutch just started massacring the Lenape on the Manhattan Island. And I really felt like, you know, because, yes, I want to educate the non-natives who are going to come and who maybe didn't even know the Lenape ever existed or that Manhattan is named after their own word for the island, their home, that they were forcibly removed from after lots of violence. You know, so I want to confront non-natives with that reality, but I also don't want to harm my own people. I don't want my own people to come inside the theater and have to watch something that triggers them because we all carry that historical trauma. Even if we don't consciously think about it, it's inside us because, you know, we're here today because at some point someone that we descend from survived, right? Survived what has been one of the most successful genocides in the history of mankind. So, you know, I want to be very aware of how my play impacts the native people who come see it. I don't want to cause more harm. I don't want to trigger people. But then I can't back away from showing the past and showing me what's happened. And so that was a conversation and I don't know that the play has the right balance right now. I think I have to constantly ask that question and I have to ask people how they react to it when they see it. How does this make you feel? Does this trigger you? Does this hurt? You know, but the interesting thing was is that all the native actors in the show, and they're the ones, you know, I want to really listen to because they're on stage doing it. And that's a whole other energy too to have to show that violence on their bodies, right, with their voices. And they said, no, this has to be in here. We can't just have it happen off stage and then find out about it later through a character telling us, because this is what our ancestors survived, we have to show this. And that was the conversation we had and that was the decision that was made, but these are tough decisions and I think with everything you have to think about your audience is native and non-natives and what does that mean for the story that you're sharing and how you share it? Well, you always have to go back to community, right? I mean, that's something, I like I'm doing a play about the Dakota War of 1862 and they, the Dakota community said, don't depict the hanging. So I was like, great, I'm not going to depict the hangings.  It's a hugely traumatizing event right now. And so they said, yeah, we don't want that done and I think that's what we all very much respond to is, you know, going back to community, figuring out what doesn't want to be, what they don't want to see on stage and then saying, great, so what is it you do want to see on stage because it's their story, it's not mine. I'm in Dakota, I'm not Dakota. And so asking them what is their, what do they want to see and then what do you want to teach to white folks and then my job is to translate all that into western theater and make sense to white people. So thank you. One of the things that I am hearing from all of you is just about the power of theater in general. You know, we often talk about art as being this incredible catalyst to create changing communities. On the Oregon Arts Commission, one of the things that we get to do is read a lot of grants and you really start to see how art becomes this tool to have difficult conversations with a lot of communities, you know, to create a space to actually do that. You guys work with Native Youth and I know that in my own community of Warm Springs 50% of our tribal membership is under the age of 30 and so that's like 50% of our tribal membership. It blows my mind when I think about how young our community is and how you're starting to see these really kind of cool, well I'm not cool anymore, I'm not at the cool age according to the young people. I've heard some good feelings to know this but so you know they're doing these really cool edgy projects and we, many of us I think have been doing different art with young people and I'm curious to know what sort of art it fits in the theater or other types of art that you're doing in your own communities and other communities, especially with youth and what you're seeing in that type of space with young people. I'm starting. I love it when I see both of you looking at me.  Hey, yeah I work with youth a lot but there's so many different ways that I work with youth. I tie the phone and I do a lot of workshops helping youth bring out their own voices in whatever way they want to do that but additionally I think what I'll talk about for a second is for instance what we're doing here at the theater at Artist Repertory Theater I have two requirements of every theater company I work with. I cannot be the only indigenous art in that season and I cannot be the only indigenous person paid in that season and every theater company that works with me has to be down with that and thus far they've done great. For instance, since we're talking about Warm Springs, Art Theater Company Artist Rep they didn't have any grants, they didn't have anything for this but they said these are the things we have are you interested in any of these things and we've spent the past year going out into the community talking to native folks saying what are you interested in and what we've ended up with was a lot of youth doing this amazing stuff like we've had Scott Kalama from and his whole crew came down doing hip hop in the lobby and that's obviously one of the big ones that we're seeing again in the end and figuring so they've came out that whole crew from Warm Springs came out and performed in the lobby we've had Strick Nine and Fish Martinez came out and who else West Coast Black Bear all these amazing young men who are trying to be positive role models in the community and doing their own art forms and it's been really great because I feel like it's important that there's actually an audience for you here in the theater in what you think of as a bunch of old white people Strick Nine the other night had all these old white ladies with their hands in the air and they were just having such a great time it was amazing so it was great I don't know if they've ever I don't know if they even knew why but they were like okay he told me to do it they were just having such a good time and I think it's important talking to these young folks about their own river I just said your last name sorry but you know that works too but having all these young folks coming in and doing the work they do doing spoken word poetry showing them that there is a place for them in theater and if they want to work in bars and whatever that's great but if they want to work in theater there are places and there are ways then to take that work that these ladies would love to come to because they had such a great time in the lobby but I think it's really for me it's always about with our youth meeting them where they are what are they interested in what are they doing, what are they talented at already and then how can I help them translate that if they want to onto a stage or just into the lobby it's fine whatever that is or back home with their people and really support them in their writing process and also performing and doing things back to their people in different venues so for me growing up in the middle of nowhere Oklahoma no one ever came to my school to validate my culture which is really kind of funny considering I lived right in the heart of the Cherokee Nation no one ever came to my school and said there were creative career options you know if you were lucky in my small town you get to work at the chicken plant or the factory or maybe if you're really lucky you get to be a teacher and those were your options and for my family you know we have if you go to the Cherokee Nation the head of the genealogy is my Auntie Liza the head of the language department is John Ross and David Crawler and those are my family that's my family so we have made it John Ross John Ross is descended from Andrew Ross yeah signed the same treaty as my grandfather history is complicated wow so I knew my family was active in the culture but no one ever told me that and no one ever told the other Native youth at my school and my school was mostly Native and so it was very important to me that I go out and I talk about that and so I've been very lucky that when I first moved to Los Angeles I had to partner up with the National Conference for Community and Justice Christopher Sipas right back there and he designed the first set of my first equity play which was a one person show called Kick that explores the power of mascots and the power of images and I came on board when it was just a rough outline of what they wanted and it was with Peter Howard from Cornerstone as well he had written it and so they wanted to make the character Cherokee so I was able to introduce the language I was able to introduce songs and at the end one of the things I told to Peter it's very important to me that Grace the character I'm playing doesn't win because I want her to still find the ability to get up and keep fighting because as you know especially if you're a Native person and you're fighting any kind of issue you know treaty rights, mascots, representation you're not going to win you have to keep getting up every day with the NCCJ that I was also able to be a counselor for the brotherhood sisterhood camp and so that was a week long camp where we took oh gosh about 200 youth from across Los Angeles and we talked about all the isms you know we unpacked everything and then it was through them that I was able to work with City of Peace where we take inner city kids and we create musicals and then I also did some Native playwriting programs and mentor artists playwriting programs and Young Native Voices I'm a company for the American Indian Film Institute and I mentored Native kids because it's very important especially you know once again this is me coming from me and knowing that no one ever told me my voice was important or that my story had value and not ever seeing myself represented on television or film it's very lonely it's very isolating especially to our young people when you think about it we have the highest suicide rates and the highest dropout rates so how do we build up this self-esteem how do we make them be proud of who they are and how do we restore that and let them know that they're important so I think one of the most powerful things I was able to do is through all these programs I was able to teach playwriting to these young incarcerated Native men and in California you know it's the three strikes rule and so these are poor Native young men under the age of 18 who are in prison because of petty theft or drug abuse and yet three times instead of getting the help they need they're sent to a prison and because most of them come from reservations that are very poverty-stricken they didn't have family to see them and so you go and you help them tell their story and I think it's a vital part of who we are once you own that story once you tell the story in your own words then it doesn't have power over you you have power over it and so that was the one thing that was very important to me is how do we take our power back and how do we start telling our own stories from our own perspectives and how do we reignite that flame inside of us because we're proud people we're a resilient people and by God we're still here and so that's one of the things that I like to do with the Native youth I've been very lucky and fortunate back into the organization so right now working with Portland Center Stage we're creating a curriculum to go with the show and I'm teaching a bunch of workshops in fact every day I keep getting more and more workshops to work with the Native youth and also non-Native youth which I think is equally important because they need to know how to have these difficult conversations and how do we start bridging that gap and it was so funny because my father gave me my name is Delana Gay Estude and I didn't figure this out until later in life and if my dad made fun of me he's like I was wondering how long I'm going to take you to figure that out but my name means Golden Gate and I was supposed to be a bridge and so that was what my father has given to me and I've taken that on that's what I'm trying to do is how do we bridge that gap how do we make it accessible how do we start having these difficult conversations and how as Native people do we start claiming our own stories and taking back our power what she said um I really don't have much else to add to that um I mean I will I will say I just I agree with everything they just both Larissa and Delana just said I think that one thing I've learned too in working with youth is you know you know I think when I first started doing anything with youth I thought okay how do I change what I'm doing to work and you don't have to change anything you don't have to do it different you know kids are so smart they're so smart and so I think that was one major epiphany for me it was like oh in some ways they're smarter than adults right because they don't have all those filters that adults have by the time we're adults we've put up all these walls and these barriers and I actually feel like the you know the work that I have been able to do with youth I've taken away more probably than what I've been able to give them and I think I think there's a lot of power in theater specifically when you take when you do it with youth because you know our kids aren't allowed to share their stories and they don't get to see themselves and I one of our one of the plays I've been taking around the country that actually Delana's been in a few times is Silver or Full Moon and it's really cool because sometimes we'll take it to a community and we'll work with their high school students to see in the play and the number of times I've had kids come up and say I've never seen one of my people on stage before and you're just like you know but I remember that feeling personally I still feel that way can I just see Native people on stage like but yeah well there were a couple of things that I heard from you that I had talked about you know writing a story you know it doesn't have power over you and you sort of take that back and Mary Kay you mentioned earlier when you were talking about the law firm that you recently joined the work that they've done on the reauthorization of VAWA and I just kind of want to turn this a little bit to talk about women, Native women in general because there really has been this really interesting sort of me too movement happening when it comes to Indian Country and just watching what's out there but then also knowing we have a mutual friend so we were kind of chatting about that earlier but just these conversations with other Native women about the incredible levels of sexual assault and things that women are experiencing and how silent those stories actually are in Indian Country like we don't want to talk about it because it's really ugly and uncomfortable but the reality is that it's everywhere it's literally everywhere I mean all the Native women that I'm friends with have all been a victim of sexual assault and when I lived in Minneapolis going to graduate school we had done a production of the vagina monologues which was interesting to be on stage talking about your vagina but also just you know kind of one of those things where it wasn't written by indigenous peoples so it was kind of it was a different experience but I'm kind of waiting now for the stories like when when and how do we start having these conversations it may be through you know sort of creating a place that's not as uncomfortable where we can laugh about it but also really start to have some of those hard conversations and dialogues in our communities about how women are treated the high levels of sexual assault so I'm just curious to know from you because you guys are writing these type of stories you're putting these stories out here it's powerful the work you do how do we begin to have those conversations through a medium of theater and through art well I very much believe in theater and art as I think one of the most effective ways to have these conversations and that's one of my problems with the Me Too movement I think it's very important I'm glad it's happened I think we're now kind of at this place where it was disruptive in a very helpful way but now if the conversations can't leave social media and happen in rooms like this then what are we doing with it right and so I feel like it's just a hashtag right now and I'm not sure how much of an in-depth conversation we're really having but I think that's yet to be seen and I think we can still have that conversation but I have a play called Silver of Full Moon actually we brought it out to Umatilla last year you were in it it was like a year ago she was the star and she was an amazing actress in addition to being phenomenal playwright and you know I don't think it's a coincidence there's about three women up here and I think about and you know and you know Cherokee culture is very matrilineal but we think and a lot of different I don't want to be super general over general and Pan Indian but a lot of our tribal cultures uphold that you know the women are the foundation of sovereignty we literally wouldn't have citizens of our nations if it weren't for women right we are the life bearers we give life and I think it's also not a coincidence that one of the biggest victories in the history of the United States for tribal nations came from women the violence against women act in 2013 congress and the president restored a piece of the tribal criminal jurisdiction that the United States Supreme Court took away so we've got all these hundreds of years of United States history of the three branches of federal government taking our sovereignty away taking our jurisdiction away and all of a sudden the piece of it gets restored why because native women leaders and survivors went to DC met with congress and told their stories like Lisa Bruner from the White Earth Nation or Diane Millich from Southern New and they told their stories in the New York Times they told their stories in congressional hearings and I think again it just goes back to the power of storytelling and what happens when silence voices speak up right and so Slippery Full Moon celebrates that victory celebrates the restoration of tribal criminal jurisdiction over Don Indians in Val 2013 and it's been a real blessing to take it around the country we've taken it to from Umatilla we took it to Fort Berthold and did it with NHA Nation we took it to Eastern Band and did it in Cherokee, North Carolina it's been a huge blessing and I think it's also been powerful because it when we bring it into a community there have just been inevitably people will come up afterwards and the women share their stories I mean if they can make it and in writing the play I did interviews with survivors and they're invited to literally share their story on stage if they can't make it or they don't want to then we'll hire a very talented actress to play them but they have that opportunity so often times when they do the play you know you're listening Diane Millich is sharing her story right Lisa Brunner is sharing Billie Joe Rich and I think that is even another level of theater of storytelling where you can't separate yourself you can't say well this is just a story that this fancy playwright made up but no it's very real and someone's giving testimony right now to what they've survived what I've heard from some of the tribal communities where we've gone to is that afterwards the conversation continues and people start saying well who in our community has survived this and who's perpetrated it because that's the unfortunate thing yes the Department of Justice shows and we know our women face the highest rates of sexual assault, murder and rape in the country and the majority of those crimes the Department of Justice reports are committed by non-Indians we also know we have people in our own communities our uncles, our fathers our grandfathers, our neighbors and it's not just you know man on women it's women on men and women on women and those are the conversations that I think are really hard to have in our community so I think theater again offers this unique environment in which these conversations can start in a way that it's not going to happen in a tribal council meeting or other settings and so that's where I think the power of theater as a creating a space for healing and testimonials is really at its height thank you so one of my favorite stories my father told me when I was a little girl when I was four so if you know anything about the Cherokee history in 1763 we were considered a world power in fact we were sending people we were sending emissaries of peace over to London to negotiate with the kings and queens you know we were working we were traveling we were getting the message out we were considered a world power and my favorite story growing up so most people you know you have bedtime stories my mom would come in and tell me like the three little pigs and wonder what would make an appearance in their Scooby-Doo, right my dad would come in and be like okay so in the 1770s Chief Otakashkala was invited to talk to the British Treaty Party and he was told to bring his council so Chief Otakashkala showed up with his beloved men and women and when they walked in they looked around and the first thing Chief Otakashkala says is when he sees all these you know men with the powdered wigs and the red coats where are your women right and so and of course the British delegation said oh our women we don't involve them in matters of state and Chief Otakashkala turns back to our people and says we can't trust them they're only thinking with half of their brains and that was my bedtime story and so and so my father I always joke that I didn't grow up with gender roles because work was work if you were available and you could do the work you could do the work so sometimes I was helping whoever was cooking in the kitchen or sometimes working on the car the rule in my family's house was if you cooked then you didn't have to clean right so you had one of the two jobs and so and my parents would delegate that duty and so I grew up knowing that women were powerful that women were sacred and that women were honored and if you look at the history of the Trail of Tears and the Cherokee Nation one of the ways they got us was they started saying that the Cherokee Nation were a petticoat government actually had that was a big part of my play I cut it because my play is already two hours long and the first draft was six hours and I can't do that to myself or to you and so but it's a lot of history but it was that was one of the ways they got us by his way of saying you know oh you're a petticoat government so and then what happened was the removal happened and we get to Oklahoma and they drafted a new constitution which was actually drafted by my fourth great-granduncle George Lowry and he purposely left out women's rights so our constitution changed once it got to Oklahoma and even though it wasn't written down it was it was still implied that we had rights but it was one of those little silent agreements because they might try to move us again we gotta make sure we play by the rules or at least appear like we are and so you know I grew up with all these stories knowing about that and my father was always good about having the most awkward conversations with me in regards to like gender and sex and everything and so you know I do think exactly what Mary Catherine was saying we have this wonderful ability especially with theater because once again it's a real person on a stage it's a real feelings and the people in the audience feel that right well most people don't realize the audience is the other character in a show and what you give to us we feel and we take it in and it really impacts our performance and so and there have been studies that have shown that if you're in an audience your heart beats sync up to each other it's a very communal event and you know I've been very lucky with most of the plays I do they're very social justice plays and most of them actually have a facilitated dialogue afterwards we actually have a facilitated dialogue before and then we do the performance and we unpack it afterwards but it's creating that safe space to have those conversations and you know if you look at the history of assimilation and you know almost my father is a boarding school survivor where he was forcibly removed sent to a boarding school where he had the Indian beaten out of him and they actually tried to enforce the gender roles and to me it's not to give people excuses but it's no wonder that even though elder abuse and domestic abuse there wasn't something we really dealt with back in the day but it's something we learned and it happens today because that abuse it's a cycle and so whenever you take a child from their parents you put them in a military type school where they're not receiving any love or affection and whenever they get out of that school and they have children that's what they're going to show that's how they're going to treat their kids because they don't know any better because that's what they learned and so we have to unbreak that cycle and the best way to do that is by having these difficult conversations and my father he was a boarding school survivor and he has moments and so we actually had to have several conversations talking about you know abuse and mistreatment and you know they're not fun conversations to have but until you start having them you're not going to be able to move forward and so that's one of the great things that I think theater is a wonderful tool because you do have that community experience you're all watching it together and hopefully you saw it with somebody that's a friend and then when you leave you could unpack it or talk about it more but I think it's I think it's a great way to start the dialogue and start having those difficult conversations and and I think that's why it's very important for indigenous people to start telling our stories now because so much has been taken from us and it's time that we start rebuilding and restoring what has been lost Yeah, yeah, I'm now Mary Catherine Yeah, exactly Yeah, totally. Yeah, I mean that's what I have to say, I'm a theater activist so my social justice work is theater I can show you dozens of reviews over the years are annoyed with me because I do not teach them enough and I do not answer the questions I ask in my plays I always say the second act of my play happens afterwards if I've done my job as a dramatist I leave you with more questions than answers and I leave you with a lot of things you've never thought about and I leave you with a lot of things that you have to figure out later and you have to probably do some work Sorry, you're going to have to look things up you're going to have to do some research you're going to have to talk to a native person Yikes! And so that's intentional and every review of every play I've had hates that it's fine my plays do what I want them to do and I think we all use our work in that way and that's what theater can do I think the other thing that's important though is that we all use women as our central characters all my plays have the main characters of women in every play I've ever written I think I think so and I believe that's the same play I've seen of yours, I'm pretty sure, right? I have one play where I was like you know what, I'm going to challenge myself and make the main character in the end and then I gave him a girlfriend that had an even more powerful voice and then one play I was like who's play is this? She was awesome Delana's play is her although my father's character is still that's really important, right? is that we do, whether or not we're dealing specifically with the topic of violence against women it's important that our native women and all women see strong native women at the center having their voice told their voice heard or other women mine particular play this one the main character is a white woman but we're supposed to laugh at hers, that's okay but it's really important that we all use that so even if we're not talking about that topic we're going though a different path for a woman a different way to move through the world Thank you we are at a point so we don't get to stay together all night I know this might disappoint some of us but we're at a point where we wanted to open up for some questions from the audience for these ladies so I'd like to honor that time and allow you as audience members to ask some questions Sure, yeah I come from South Dakota we have a lot of people without electricity without internet without heat it makes me crazy, there's so much funding for these film programs to go out there and teach people filmmaking and what are they going to do with A, they can't have $6,000 camera in their home they can't charge the thing C, they have no internet to upload the thing it's just ridiculous it just makes me crazy yeah, they brought through all these film programs to teach us about filmmaking yep and they go away and everyone felt good about themselves and they spent all this money and they had this great time teaching about filmmaking to a bunch of people that can't make films because they don't have electricity, for goodness sake did you not notice there was no electricity it just makes me insane, sorry I got a little nuts with that but the one thing that is beautiful and that I constantly am pushing hard is theater our native people can make theater anywhere, our native people the three of us can make a play here right now and perform it done and it can change people's lives give us 10 minutes, we could write that and so that's the thing about theater it's beautiful, we already know how to perform as native people we already have been doing theater for thousands of years but because it has not been codified and written down by academia is not considered legitimate theater like western theater like theater in the Far East these different forms are considered legitimate theater because they're studied in schools and have been written down through academia and studied in that way, ours have not been and therefore people don't consider it theater but we do so many amazing completely different theatrical forms so all we have to do is just do what we do right so the example I was used is back home actually at Milks Camp, I was talking to someone earlier from Milks Camp from Milks Camp in Rosebud these children they have funding for alcohol and drug prevention abuse prevention and so they had a little bit of money so they found a perfect little amphitheater with these prairie hillsides that came down to this bowl and so it's a perfect backdrop it's acoustically beautiful they built little wooden benches themselves and they made all these little benches and they made a darling little wooden stage someone ran an extension cord out there and so then they also put up a little white wall so that they can show films on there when they don't have theater to watch and they just make plays out there in the prairie it's the most beautiful theater I've ever been to I remember the first time they brought me out there the cicadas are going at night and the sunsets in South Dakota are 360 degrees like they're all the way around you and the full moon was coming up over the hill and the horses are coming down and grazing behind you I mean it's just magical and these kids are out there making theater they brought me out to in a weekend we took these children some little people I was telling them earlier about there's two women that came they're teenage girls raising 10 children none of whom are theirs and they're raising them alone without any adults and they just brought all the kids we put them in sleeping bags in the garage and we spent a weekend learning how to write plays taught them dialogue, taught them how to do scenes they sent them out, made them interview all their elders and come back and wrote the plays that the elders told us and they performed this little show it was like 30 minutes long it was the first time we did this I worked with them, teach them how to do this how to act and do all this and it was a 30 minute show it took us like a week I mean it's crazy and these kids had this amazing piece of theater that connected them to their elders connected their community to their to the land they had to like add shows because it was so popular because you know what there's nothing else to do out there except, you know, Powwow was over they kind of left so it was like, it was the entertainment in town, it's amazing and so our people can be doing that I work at Red Cloud Indian School a lot and they talk constantly about this beautiful theater program they used to have I'm like guys, let's just go do it and so we went back, you know, the theater's there I'm like let's go do it and we went we did a play there, you know, it's like it took us three days, we wrote a play you know, it's something native people can be doing everywhere they are, you don't need electricity you don't need internet, you don't need fancy equipment you don't need anything but yourselves and I'm constantly pushing for Indian country to get behind theater it's amazing, it's beautiful and violist music and dancing and storytelling and all the things we already do so I really, I'm a big advocate I was just bugging people with some funders here today like, support native theater we need it, but we don't have funding for it it's a constant, constant battle to get funding, you know, if I had the money I'd just go out there myself, I'm an artist I don't have enough money but I could be doing native theater workshops year round with our youth if I could just get the funding to do it Any other questions? Well originally my show was not about it was not going to be about me or my father it was about the people we met along the way and so we had all these interviews even though I'm Cherokee Nation from Oklahoma we have three federally recognized tribes there's Cherokee Nation from Oklahoma there's Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians and Cherokee North Carolina and the United Katua Band also of Oklahoma and so even though we're Cherokee in order for me to tell the stories I went and presented from a tribal council I met with the elders I took a year to build up a relationship with Eastern Band, you know, Cherokee just because they're not, we're different and so so the interviews that we collected were supposed to be for the play and they still are, you know, I still use them but we actually donated them back to all the tribal museums so anyone that we met with along the way and also to the Trail of Tears Association you know we wanted the footage I wanted to do it mostly so I could for the writing purposes because like I said my original thought was the play was not going to be about me or my father it was going to be about the people we met along the way and then my directors like but people are interested about what was it like to retrace your family's footsteps along the Trail of Tears with your dad and I was like oh yeah that's, no we don't talk about that so they made me go a little further so the whole idea of having the documentary if you watch the footage what's funny about it is there are no interviews with me and my father because we weren't supposed to be in the play and but then in order to it was my director, it was her idea she said if they see that if you go out there and you become personally vulnerable and you share your story then people are going to be able to relate to it more than you sharing the stories of other people and that's your obligation to your people and my director is a white lady well-intentioned, we actually call her the yo-nag with good intentions yo-nag is a Cherokee word for a white person and so my yo-nag with good intentions that's why I ended up happening she forced me to tell the deeper story and I kind of went kicking and screaming into it and then you and your hair, I know thank you so that's how it happened but all the interviews are with it's at the Museum of the Cherokee Indian is at the Cherokee Heritage Center is also at the Museum of the Cherokee of the Sequoia birthplace and also with the Trail of Tears Association so they have all of our interviews and we had some really big ones like I got to interview our beloved man who just passed, Jerry Wolf Jerry Wolf was the first beloved man to have that title in over 200 years and he passed away my first week of rehearsal and we also were able to interview Dr. Amanda Swimmer who is a revered elder and she was recently named a beloved woman and I think that was probably my proudest moment is because she offered to do her interview in Cherokee and my father got to speak with one of the oldest living speakers of the Cherokee language and that for me that was what the Trail was all about any other questions? it's just the highest title that you could have bestowed on someone so it's so you know elder is a title and I always joke is like I'm not ever going to be an elder I'll just be old I'm not ever going to have that wisdom I'm just going to be an old person but elder, a beloved man and a beloved woman usually go to our most cherished and trusted culture bears like they've done enough in their life to keep the like once they're gone then we lose a part of the culture and so it's acknowledging how much they've given back to the community it's once again that word Godugi right how much they've given back how much they've in Jerry Wolfe's case he was a phenomenal human being he stormed the beaches of Normandy one of the only natives people to do that and survive and he would teach the language he was also one of our best storytellers he had the most stories so oral history the way it works is in a lot of cultures but especially in Cherokee if you can't tell the story the correct way then you're not allowed to tell the story and so you collect stories along the way now we also adapt stories and we're you know sometimes we'll tell a shortened version because our creation story takes like several days no one really had so you find a shorter way to saying it but you know you have to earn that right to shorten it you have to earn that right and so but Jerry had he had such a wealth of knowledge he had like in his my in his brain he had so many of our stories and he had the full length and short length and he masterfully tell those in fact after he retired he would go to the museum of the Cherokee Indian and during the lunch break all the tourists would come out and he would tell them stories and then eventually the museum was like oh this is a great we should hire him he's a great ambassador for the program and so then of course you get Dr. Amanda Swimmer who is also an old speaker which means Cherokee is her first language and but she's also one of our best potters and she still does her pottery the old way and so we were able to she showed us how she made her pots we were able to watch that and then she tried to teach me how to do some Cherokee finger weaving I'm not very good at that but terrible horrible it was I was like how so it's the beloved man and beloved woman those are titles but on people who are our culture bearers and they have such wealth of knowledge that once they're gone we lose a piece of ourselves and that's why we don't give out that title that often any other questions out there well this has just been a wonderful this isn't working again this has been a wonderful evening sweet grass and some sage and just a gift from the Indian community for you thank you again so before we let everybody go because I'm sure folks would like to mingle and ask questions and just chat I just want to remind folks that you've got three plays that are happening here in Oregon all at the same time which is really really great so before we check out I'd like to just ask you just a quick plug let us know where your play is when it's when it's going to run to maybe just a slight two sentence about what it is so that everyone here knows what you should be planning in the next couple of months and one of those things is a road trip to Ashland so yeah my play is Manahata and it's at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival in Ashland Oregon right now through October 27th so you got time to figure out your trip down there and Manahata follows the story of Jane Snake who is a contemporary citizen of the Delaware Nation from Anadarko, Oklahoma and it is her journey back to Manahata her ancestral homeland where she works and gets a job at Lehman Brothers and works on Wall Street which is named Wall Street because that's where the Dutch built a wall to forcibly remove her people from their homelands in 1654 and so it goes back and forth in time as you see her reconnect with her ancestors and where she comes from so my play is called And So We Walked and it's at Portland Center Stage until May 13th although I just found out today it's selling really well so we might extend so get your tickets quickly because it's very exciting I mentioned earlier when I wrote the play I thought I would go to tribal institutions and tribal colleges I used to joke and say Portland Center Stage I would like to say it's a dream come true but honestly I never dreamed I would even get that far so it's more than a dream come true And So We Walked is basically it's me retelling retracing my family's footsteps along the northern route of the trail of tears with my father and our six weeks on the road and what came up for us along the way so if you want to know all my dirty secrets you should see the show and my play is the Thanksgiving play it's a comedy and satire so come to mind and just laugh a lot people tell me their face hurts and their stomach hurts when they're done so it's a bit of a workout be ready and it's an artist's repertory theater it's only until April 29th so you gotta go now get on it it's pretty quick and we have a code Keisha I think back here Thanksgiving 35 use that code you get $35 tickets to any show we also reserve tickets for elders every night so you will get in and so yeah Thanksgiving 35 just use that and get your discount tickets it's about all the white people you know in Portland that's what it's about and it's a lot of fun so just come and have fun okay thank you let's give these ladies another round of applause we'll have some time just to chat before we have to close up shop here I'll leave that to you to let us know when we gotta go alright thank you when I wrote the play I thought I would go to tribal institutions tribal colleges I used to joke and say Portland center stage I would like to say it's a dream come true but honestly I never dreamed I would even get that far I've never dreamed more than a dream come true but and so we walked is basically it's me retelling retracing my family's footsteps along the northern rail of the trail of tears with my father and our six weeks on the road and what came up for us along the way so if you want to know all my dirty secrets you should see the show and my play is the Thanksgiving play it's a comedy and satire so come to mind and just laugh a lot people tell me their face hurts and their stomach hurts when they're done so it's a bit of a workout be ready and it's an artist's repertory theater it's only until April 29th so you gotta go now get on it it's pretty quick and we have a code Keisha I think back here Thanksgiving 35 use that code you get $35 tickets to any show we also reserve tickets for elders every night so you will get in and so yeah Thanksgiving 35 and get your discount tickets it's about all the white people you know in Portland that's what it's about and it's a lot of fun and scoopy so just come and have fun okay thank you before we leave let's give these ladies another round of applause we'll have some time just to chat before we have to close up shop here I'll leave that to you to let us know when we gotta go alright thank you


This video is part of a study series titled Biblical Salvation Settled Wantsome for All. Please see the playlist link in the video description. Hello and welcome back. So in this video of the series we'll be looking at John chapter 11. This will probably be a shorter study than some of the chapters I've covered in John just because John 11 is a very very different from previous chapters in the study. So we'll be looking more closely at Jesus personal relationships The dialogue is more pleasant because Jesus is speaking with faithful believers who think very highly of him in this chapter rather than unsaved Jews who rejected him. So they'll be a bit more positive in this chapter But there's not as much that we need to unpack although that being said We'll tap into more details about the resurrection So I've not included the first seven verses just because for salvation and doctrine There's nothing that we really need to get from those. So starting at verse 8 So his disciples said on to him master the Jews of late sought to stone you and do you go there again? Jesus answered are there not 12 hours in the day if any man walk in the day He stumbles not because he sees the light of this world But if a man walk in the night he stumbles because there is no light in him These things said he and after that he said on to them our friend Lazarus sleeps But I go that I may awake him out of his sleep Then said his disciples lord if he sleep he shall do well How be it Jesus spake of his death, but they thought that he had spoken of taking of resting sleep Then said Jesus on to them plainly Lazarus is dead And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there to the intent you may believe nevertheless. Let us go into him Then said thomas which is called didimus on to his fellow disciples Let us also go that we may die with him so Initially when When when Jesus answers them his response seems rather strange Given the question that the disciples actually asked him so Jesus doesn't seem to address The answer directly rather he turns it into this this miniature parable here So so what's the remainder of the chapter will explain why Jesus says this but what but what's going on here is that Jesus is withholding From preventing Lazarus from dying so Jesus could have obviously stopped Lazarus from dying But Jesus Willfully allows Lazarus to die in this story So that he can display greater work in in resurrecting him for the for the purpose that people and especially the disciples and Martha and so on will will believe In him as he as he suggests in verse 15 So, you know, it's to the intent that that you may believe that that's the goal of what Jesus is doing here so Here we we see Jesus using sleep as a euphemism for Being dead, although I'll be it soon to be reawakened and the bible does this elsewhere. So for example, let's take a look at 1st Thessalonians 4 so in 1st Thessalonians 4 Paul uses similar language he talks about the Dead in Christ as you can see on the screen there in verses 13 to 18 Describing them as being asleep quote unquote now you can argue that the bible uses this metaphor for for two reasons because Rather like sleep those who are dead in christ They're not in a permanent state of death. They will awaken from their sleep. So just like Lazarus wakes From from this in John chapter 11 So also during their sleep they they are in a state of rest You know just like when you go to sleep you're resting and and we see glimpses of this rest in Luke 16 as well. So let's take a brief look at Luke 16 So i'm not going to read it out just because it's not part of of John 11 But you've got these verses here 19 to 26 and we see Two men here. So we see one is Lazarus, but it's not the same Lazarus from John chapter 11 It's just very Uncoincidentally also happens to be called Lazarus Who made it into heaven as he's in Abraham's bosom that's that's in heaven And this is contrasted with the rich man who who lifted his up his eyes in hell. Okay, so this Lazarus in in this story Made it to heaven and he was being comforted. So he's he's resting in Abraham's bosom. This is This is rest what's going on here essentially So he was in a place of comfort as this This goes on to say so Like Abraham said, you know Lazarus received evil things, but but he he is comforted now. Okay And you know the disciples said in in verse 12 of John 11 Lord if he sleeps he shall do well even though perhaps they they misunderstood the application of what exactly Jesus is talking about So going back to John 11 then So when when Thomas said Let us go also that we may die with him. It's not entirely clear Why Thomas said this so, you know, perhaps he misunderstood why Jesus was going to take them to Lazarus or or exactly what Jesus meant by this And likewise, we don't know this but it's possible that maybe Thomas was trying to look like He knew what Jesus was talking about him in front of the other disciples Or they were all trying to look like they knew what Jesus meant You know when when they didn't really know what we've all been, you know, guilty of that at some point in our lives You know, we don't want to be seen like we don't know what's going on Um Moving on then into the next verses so verse 17 then Then when Jesus came he found that he had lain in the grave four days already Now Bethany was near on to Jerusalem about 15 fur longs off And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary to comfort them concerning their brother Then Martha as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming went and met him But Mary sat still in the house Then said Martha on to Jesus Lord, if you had been here, my brother had not died But I know that even now whatsoever you will ask of God will give it you Jesus said on to her your brother shall rise again Martha said on to him.  Do you believe this? She said on to him. Yes, lord I believe that you are the Christ the son of God which should come into the world. So Here we notice Martha Believes the resurrection as we see there in verse 24 This is being perhaps being before being aware that Christ must rise again As we see from elsewhere in the bible, there was conflict between the Pharisees and the Sadducees about this particular issue and now although Lazarus's death and sleep was unremarkable in of itself And his resurrection was not the glorified resurrection that we look forward to The happenings that are going on here do give us a pattern as to what our Waiting for the resurrection looks like. Okay So the Lazarus in Luke 16 and his rich man counterpart it experienced consciousness Pretty much immediately after their earthly death at least if you if you take a more literal view of Luke 16 Whereas the Lazarus in John 11 and Paul's writings in 1 Thessalonians 4 suggests that there is a sleep Okay before the the resurrection or the rising Now we will look at a little bit about the soul sleep doctrine that's out there I'll leave that towards the end. I won't address it now But this issue of sleep it would require rather a complex explanation and perhaps a bit of a deep study that would digress a bit too far from John 11, so i'm not really going to study it in great detail here, but but here's a summary for you so from our earthly perspective those who have died physically are asleep as far as we can perceive The resurrection is as a bodily rising again in the future from now on the earth So the the spirits of the departed that they're they're resting In heaven, you know if they are saved at least So while they're only dead in earthly terms that they're not truly dead because even before the resurrection or even before the death of the flesh One's eternal life has already begun the moment a person gets saved So you you get saved you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ your flesh is still dying But but you have been saved your eternal life begins now And this is consistent with what Jesus said in verse 26. He that believes in me shall never die Well, it obviously isn't referring to flesh there. Okay, otherwise you'd have that that would be a crazy statement essentially Uh, and we also see we see them why we need to distinguish Between the flesh and the spirit although a bit like John 3 with the issue of being born again It's not something that John's gospel really delves into a lot of detail We tend to get more about this from Romans and Galatians, but um Jesus said believers shall never die and yet we are all the king in in this flesh So so we must understand that our flesh Will die, but but we ourselves and our born again spirit Um will not you know again We can't go into that too deeply here because there's not enough information from John's gospel on the subject But but fundamentally that's what we must understand our flesh dies Our born against spirit is what is passed on onto life and shall never die So You know a lot of people with a work salvation they point to all these passages about You know living in the flesh and and so on and so forth, but but the flesh is dead That's what you've got to understand about that Now what exactly when when Jesus says I am the resurrection It's not just I give resurrection, but but I am the resurrection and I am the life Um, what exactly does that mean? Well, perhaps to you that's a bit of a daft question It seems rather obvious, but we'll explain it anyway. So Um, after all obviously Lazarus is going to be resurrected We look forward to a future resurrection. So so what does Jesus mean by saying he is the resurrection? Well, the answer lies in understanding How regeneration works, so um, you take these passages like John 1 14 John 3 16 acts 13 33 It refers to Jesus as the only begotten and and the father has has begotten the son there. So Uh, previously in John's gospel, we haven't See we we have seen explained. Sorry that that Jesus is the only begotten The word begotten normally means brought into existence like a parent begats a child But but the bible also teaches that Jesus is eternal So he's not begotten in this same manner obviously He is from everlasting to everlasting But he is he is god manifest in the flesh as we see in 1st Timothy 3 15 So in this manner, this is the manner in which he's begotten he's Made, you know into the world in in the manner of flesh And of course, you know after his death, he was raised to life again in the flesh. Okay So from in the eternal perspective everything that he accomplished in those three days Talking about Jesus was already foreordained before all the foundation of the world. So In heavenly realms, it already happened. But from our earthly perspective, he's manifesting these particular time so Acts 13 33 and also one John sorry John 114 explain that while it is Jesus who is the Only begotten one and it is the father that begat him in these contexts And so that's why Jesus is described as his only begotten son. Okay But then when you look at these verses here, so like 1st Corinthians 415 1 Peter 3 3 1 John 5 1 it refers actually to us as believers As being begotten as begotten of him or begotten by the resurrection of Christ or begotten through the gospel So, you know, we are begotten as well. So if we're begotten, how can Jesus be the only begotten son? Well, this is kind of explained these verses so so notice that in 1 John 5 He that is born of God begotten Not only loves he that begat God, but also loves him, you know, anybody, whoever he is that is begotten of him So Jesus is begotten of the father, but also the brethren. Okay So But ultimately what happens is so while Christ is begotten of the father In the world because Christ is from everlasting We are begotten of Christ in eternity because we are not from everlasting But we are passed on to everlasting life. So, you know, because Christ as Christ defeated death demonstrated by his resurrection So shall we buy our faith in him and what he accomplished? Okay, so fundamentally that that's what What he means there to the eye and the resurrection he says Now look at this here. Look at the simplicity Of Martha's response to Jesus now now bearing in mind This is about eternal life here.   It's very direct. It's not overly emotional or Sensationalized now you might be wondering So what, you know, what what point am I trying to make by by pointing that out? Well We've seen previously in this study that that Jesus you know in our series We've looked at how Jesus defined salvation as An entrance or it's an instantaneous event. It's not some Lifelong drawn out journey that may or may not come to fruition. So just in case you've Forgot on those verses here are some reminders. So Like in John 10 9 he describes it as I am the door and if any man entering So it's simply walking through an entrance You've got John 5 24 it says is passed from death on to life. It's not is passing or will pass or may pass Is passed it's already happened Um, you've got uh versus like John 3 3 where it says uh born again now people I've heard so many people take born again and make that this Lifelong journey, but when you were born as a baby, it was a one time event Okay, it doesn't make sense to take that statement and make that a lifelong journey born It is something that happened to you once so likewise being born in the spirit Birth it happened once okay Now a very misabused passage is Matthew 7 13 and 14 where They talk about walking down this narrow way that you know leads on to life And you could stray from the path and this that and the other But the thing is though as we've looked at before when we've looked at this Jesus said few there be that find it He didn't say few there be that make it to the end or few there be that can fight through all the snakes thorns and thistles It's few there be that find it because once you've found the gate and you found the way Well, you found it simple as that You have John 4 13 and 14 where Jesus describes it as a Drink of water.  It's something that's very brief. It's not a lifelong thing to drink one glass of water Uh, you've got John 6. This is perhaps a less clear example, but you know Jesus being the bread of life Uh, and you know you shall never hunger So, uh, you know bread again, you have a piece of bread.  So you see hear them say, you know statements like this like if you have truly accepted the gospel You will pour out in tears and fall on your knees as you recognize the gravity of all of your sins and You know, they always point to that it's not enough to believe the devils also believe and tremble So you better know you know be getting down to work and You can't just believe stuff about Christ You have to prove it with all these works of obedience and repentance means you completely transform your life Abandoning your old ways and surrendering your life to Jesus.   Do you believe this? I believe that you are the Christ the Son of God Which should come into the world very very simple Brief response. We don't need all of these tears and life transformation and you know turning our life around Just a very very simple statement to a very very simple commandment You know very very simple and and that's why I love that.  Yes and amen, but With the topic of eternal life We have a simple statement. Okay. This doesn't need to be overly emotional or Drawn out and you can accept that when you actually believe that salvation is an entrance Okay, it's much harder to justify that when it becomes this lifelong journey Um, so moving on then so later in the story Mary Wept over Lazarus and and Jews came to comfort her while she was weeping and then Verse 35 one of those very very short but profound verses in the bible Jesus wept And then verse 36 and the Jew said behold how he loved him And some of them said could not this man which opened the eyes of the blind Have caused that even this man should not have died so they're they're doubting Jesus there it seems Jesus therefore again groaning in himself comes to the grave. It was a cave and the stone lay upon it Jesus said take you away the stone Martha the sister of him that was dead said unto him Lord by this time he stinks that he has been dead for days Jesus said unto her did I not say unto you that if you would believe you should see the glory of God Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid and Jesus lifted up his eyes and said Father I thank you that you have heard me and I knew that you hear me always But because of the people which stand by I said it That they may believe that you have sent me and when he had thus spoken He cried with a loud voice Lazarus come forth And he that was dead came forth and bound hand and foot with grave clothes and his face was bound about with the napkin Jesus said unto him loose him and let him go So now we essentially see why Jesus earlier in the chapter withheld from Saving Lazarus from being dead in the first place, you know, this was all planned that the the glory of God should Be displayed there. You know not to just show off or give a show But you know so that the people observing would would believe in him that that was the goal It's it's all to believe on Christ because you know anybody can just come along and say hey look at me I'm Jesus. I'm the one Well, Jesus actually proved it with his works and we've seen that in previous chapters that we looked at like The previous chapter John chapter 10 Now earlier in the chapter Martha's belief was looking rather more confident But it's looking a little bit less confident now But it's important to consider that just because somebody has a weak faith or a limited understanding They are still saved if they believe the gospel. Okay, so, you know, we'll see this played out more in John 14 to 16 where where Jesus needs to edify the faith of the disciples because while the disciples are believers and they Trust Christ part of them Judas obviously That there are some things in John 14 and 15 that they're not quite grasping and Jesus still says to you know Do you not believe these things? Do you not understand these things already? So, you know, he needs to build them up in those chapters and that's something that we'll explore Very soon in this series when we get to those chapters now Following on then so from verse 45 Then many of the Jews which came to Mary had seen the things which Jesus did And believed on him But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees and told them what things Jesus had done So the Jews were obviously as they very often were very Polarized you've got those who saw the miracles and believed in him Then there's those who saw the miracles and they went to the Pharisees to try and get Jesus in some kind of trouble You know instead of just quietly going home and forgetting about it, you know, they seem to go all the way the opposite way So what happens then later in this story the chief priests and the Pharisees they counsel together You know, what what do we do with this man does does many miracles And if we leave him alone all men will believe on him and the Romans shall come and take away our place in nation And then Syaphus the high priest, he said to these chief priests and Pharisees, you know nothing at all Uh, you don't consider what is expedient for us that one man should die for the people So that the whole nation perishes not and this he didn't speak of himself But the high priest of that year he prophesied that Jesus should die for the nation And not for that nation only but that she should gather the the children of God that was scattered abroad into one And then from that day they took counsel together to to put him to death and then the remaining Sorry remaining verses are just Pharisees and the chief priests seeking to kill Jesus so uh The rest of the story here it it seems almost kind of Strange really that the Pharisees and chief priests They actually Acknowledged Jesus's ability to do miracles. They they didn't accuse him of faking it They actually acknowledged that he could do them and a very similar thing happened when they Uh blasphemed the holy ghost the the unforgivable sin They attributed something that the holy ghost did to satan, but they couldn't refute the actual miracle though But you know, that's that's neither here nor there though Just a side comment. So um Syaphus Syaphus, sorry. I can't pronounce that his prophesying is is interesting here because He knew that Jesus had to Die for the nation Quote quote But his saying here would indicate that he thought this referred to the physical nation of israel Rather than the spiritual Nation of actual believers. So it seems as if he's prophesying half right half wrong there Perhaps you might disagree with the way i'm reading there, but that's fine But you know in any case they they desire to have Jesus to be put to death But it but it wasn't for for righteous motives and it just seems bizarre to us that you would see all those miracles and yet They they still want to have Jesus put to death essentially But but their rejection of Jesus Really it reflects a pattern that we've seen Elsewhere in the bible that that people Know of god but glorify him not as god So for example, you have the reprobate mind in romans one And even the people professing to be god's own people are themselves actually some of the most difficult people to reach with the gospel or the truth and Uh, I found when out evangelizing it's all winning that it you know, it's amazed amazed me how many Christian are actually very difficult to deal with christians are some of the most difficult people To deal with because an atheist might just politely say no, thanks Or you know, they might even stick a finger up a year, but they just won't talk to you necessarily Christians They're just a really funny bunch to deal with and very difficult because you would expect that they actually want to listen It's amazing How many christians when you ask them do you know for sure you would go to heaven? I hope so. I'm not really quite sure. Well, can we show you? Uh, I need to feed the baby You know, it's amazing how many of them need to feed the baby when they're not quite sure how they'd make it to heaven It never stops. Um, you know be musing me to be honest so, um One last point. I know this has been very brief This has been quite a short study video because there's not a lot to pluck out from this chapter So we're coming towards the end really but one last point to be considered It's just to revisit Lazarus's sleep period when his body was clinically dead now. You might be wondering during that time Um, was Lazarus conscious at all during this period? Did he have an out-of-body experience or did he have a vision of heaven or hell? People will wonder that about Lazarus and it is it's a question worth asking because There are many testimonies out there of people who have claimed to have a profound out-of-body experience During temporary periods where they were clinically dead, but they they came back to life again many of them experienced Visions of heaven or hell or some sort of light versus darkness themed kind of a Vision you can get quite a few of those on youtube if you're interested in though and then um There's various sects like the jove's witnesses. There's other dead adventists the christ Delphians. They they believe in a soul sleep doctrine where a person is not conscious while waiting for their resurrection So when you point to them a passage like luke 16 They would dismiss it as just being a parable or only symbolic rather than a proof of conscious awareness after death So the problem is that this is a matter where the bible just doesn't entertain our curiosity It doesn't explain it. It does explain obviously that Lazarus raised him the dead He sat at a meal with jesus and the jews wanted to inquire of him some for better some for worse And that that's at the beginning of chapter 12 But we we have absolutely no dialogue from Lazarus in john 11 or 12 We don't have any dialogue any quotes from Lazarus Describing his experience. So the bible is just silent on the matter. We don't know what his personal experience was Now Paul does talk very briefly about knowing a man in a manner that he may have may have been an out of body experience That's in second Corinthians 12 But Paul wasn't fully sure about that now. This was a nameless person Paul could have even been talking about himself It might even be possible that he even met Lazarus but chose not to reveal his identity for whatever reason Or it was simply nobody else and it's it's not even relevant to this matter at all Um, now there are testimonies out there of um out of body experiences and visions of heaven and hell Um, a lot of those well known on youtube. You've probably seen some of them They are interesting to listen to um, but they ought to be treated with the utmost caution I'm I'm generally suspicious of them to be honest because Many of these experiences involve aspects that actually defy Biblical truth.  That that's not how hell works at all Um, some of these experiences are often light versus darkness themed and they do enlighten The individuals. Sorry. There's an ambulance going by Those experiences do often enlighten those individuals on principles of good versus evil But they're not necessarily Biblically themed. Um, they may only point to god in a very generic sense Rather than the god of the bible specifically and I remember watching a guy who Said he became a deist because he'd Studied these out-of-body experiences, but a lot of these visions weren't really biblically themed.  She's very well known Um in christian christendom for sharing all of her visions of hell in quite vivid detail But aside from these visions, she's she's said some very eccentric and frankly utterly ridiculous things And and has been proven to falsely prophesy on multiple occasions Um, if you follow some of the ludicrous stuff that she said and how she's been proven wrong prophesying about trump winning the election Again, what is perhaps one of the things that springs to mind and you know banging the stick and all of that commotion But when we read the bible, you know in that second carinthians passage paul said it was not even lawful to utter his these visions of heaven So, you know cat kerr's visions are not really to be trusted. So Generally, you know, i'm very uh suspicious of these out-of-body out-of-body experiences. They're very interesting, but Don't let those things tell you what is right and wrong about about the bible. They'll be very careful with those if you're going to use those to Justify what you believe from the bible. Okay Now regarding the soul sleep doctrine, uh, so you know what the joe's witnesses and so forth believe that when you die you're unconscious until the resurrection What what you have to do is you have to dismiss luke 16 as only being a parable or only symbolic Rather than a more literal view But this does present its own set of problems. So It first of all, it's the only parable where a person is actually named because it's a certain man named lazarus Well, normally parables are just a certain man with no name given. Okay Um, you then have to answer the question of what the parable in luke 16 actually even represents because it's very dramatic And it's very unnecessarily sensational And hyperbolic if it only represents unconsciousness. So what does it even represent? um And really luke 16 is not the only part of the bible that suggests a consciousness in heaven prior to the resurrection Um, there are passages in revelation although these are, you know, arguably symbolic But but where believers have a conscious presence Before the resurrection around the throne of god I'm not going to cover those here But but you know, you you can see those out there when it deals with the 144 000 and the great multitude And also as well going back to what we have studied in john 11, um, jesus said he who believes in me shall never die Okay, so we obviously can't apply that to our flesh because the flesh is dying anyway Unless you know believers are all supposed to be raptured and nobody's ever supposed to die in the flesh I'm sure there's some kook out there who believes that somewhere but we can only really apply it to our soul So the problem with the soul sleep doctrine arguably is that you're having to imply them that a person must be dead Until the resurrection but that that would defy what jesus actually said in this chapter Now there's more that could be said on on this topic, but it would digress from John 11 it can only really be covered when we get to appropriate passages. So that's That's all i'm really going to say on that here. So I know I know that this has been a very short study that kind of concludes john 11 Um, it's just one of those chapters where things take a bit of a different turn There's not as much salvation doctrine that we need to pluck out of here People don't usually use this passage to teach any weird ideas that i'm aware of at least not in the topic of eternal life So that's all that i'm really going to say on john 11. Look out for a study on John 12 soon and there'll be a bit more that we can pluck from that chapter


Hey everybody, welcome to the Walach Way. My name is Jessica and today's video is going to be a look inside our brand new Santa's tasty trip around the world. This study was inspired by our favorite picture book, A World of Cookies from Santa and it is going to be a fantastic way to spend Christmas. We are going to explore each of the places that he visits in the book and make each of the recipes and learn a little along the way. Let me go ahead and show you inside the study now. Inside Santa's tasty trip around the world, the very first thing that you will find is an introduction. So the introduction is going to give you kind of an overview of what to expect, what you're going to be doing and how you can use this unit study in your home school. Next you will see the table of contents. The table of contents gives you an overview of the 32 locations that you're going to be traveling to as well as the 32 treats that Santa eats at each of those locations. Now just because there is 32 of them, it does not mean that you have to do all of them. We made this in a very flexible manner so that you could do as much or as little as you want. You can pick maybe the first four this year and you could go through and pick five. You can make it a bingo. You can really do whatever you want. It's super flexible and so you can make it work for your family and your home school. Zero pressure. Next we have the unit study page. This is probably one of my favorite pages in all of our unit studies because this is where you get all the extra goodness. So here is going to be all of your suggested books for additional reading. Again, suggested not required. There is no required resource for this study. These are all additional books that would be great additions, but you don't have to have them. Here is a clickable link as well as a QR code that can be scanned for YouTube video playlist. And the same for a Pinterest board if you like to do crafts. And then down here there are some helpful additional links for further research and trivia and quizzes if you have a kid like mine who likes to do trivia and quizzes themselves. Next you have a track your tasty trip around the world map. You are going to be traveling to many different places as many possibly as 32. So it is going to be really fun to be able to track that. So with this map you can have your kid mark it and then they can even draw lines to how you did it and what order. Just to kind of see where all Santa travels during his tasty trip. And then for each location that you're going to be stopping, you're going to have something similar to this. So this is Christmas Island. There is coconut macaroons as the tasty treat Santa is going to be eating. Here is what Christmas Island looks like so that you're getting in a little bit of basic geography. And then this is kind of what the cookie is going to look like. Now these are left in black outlines in case your kids would like to color them, but again they're not required to. Here are the ingredients and the directions for making coconut macaroons. And then we tried to put just a little short factoid up there at the top. So for instance, sweet and condensed milk is a favorite ingredient on Christmas Island as it's easier to store than fresh milk. Combined with coconut it makes a sweet moist cookie. So right from the get go you're getting just a little bit more information about Christmas Island and the cookie you're going to be making. And then you can choose to do this portion before or after, but we are probably going to do it after we have made the cookie. There is more information about the location, how they celebrate Christmas, something that's special to them, something about them, things they do differently. So for instance, Christmas Island. People on Christmas Island get to celebrate the holidays one day ahead of the rest of the world since they are the very first country west of the world date line. So the kids on Christmas Island are the very first to open their Christmas presents. Christmas Island now known as Karatumati was discovered on Christmas Eve by Captain Cook in 1777. This beautiful island is the world's largest atoll. An atoll is an island with a ribbon reef surrounding a lagoon. Since most of the island's food supplies are imported and coconut grows abundantly, the Christmas cookies found on the Pacific Ocean Island are made with flaked coconut and shelf-stable condensed milk. Now they've learned even more. Geography, more about the place, more about why those cookies are the ones that they've made, and then they can mark down here whether they enjoyed the treat the Santa E yes or no. So did they like those coconut macarons? And then here they can practice some writing with why or why not. Now if your kids are not independent writers yet, it's okay you can just write for them. Ask them why didn't you like it? What did it taste like? What was the texture? What was the things you liked about it or didn't like about it? Did you not like baking it? Did you not like the way it felt or whatever it is you can just write for them. It's just kind of a way to get them thinking descriptively about what they're eating. And then like I said every location is a very similar layout. Now in the back there is something for either older kids as an extension or further research if you would like and it is a one-page very in-depth report on the location. So you could choose if you have older children to have them do one of these pages for each location you visit or you could choose to have your child at the end pick maybe their favorite and just do one deep dive. So this they're going to do the location color where it's at draw the flag you have all of this geographical goodness you have the coordinates the area the bordering countries the climate the terrain the lowest highest points the natural resources here's more about the people in the society here's more about the government the economy additional facts so a really great deep dive into the location so like I said you can have an older child do it for each place you visit or you could do it at the very end and have them pick their favorite. Last but not least we have Santa's tasty trip around the world game it wouldn't be a walled-up way unit study if there wasn't a game included and this one is super fun so you will either take a game pond if you have extra ones if not we have provided game player pieces on the directions page and place it at start right next to Santa each player will then take one of the color cards they'll be flipped over obviously and they will move either forward or backwards to the nearest corresponding color when the players land on a coral or a red round cookie spot they get to answer a trivia question if they answer the trivia question correct they get a cookie card if it is coral they get a one point a cookie card and if it's red they get a two point cookie card the player who earns eight points worth of cookie cards first is the winner