Hello and welcome to another episode of Six Degrees of Association, the only online TV show that's dedicated to the pursuit of association success. I'm Sarah Gonzalez from Redback Conferencing and as usual the man sitting next to my left is Andrew McCullum from Association of Corporate Council Australia. Hello Sarah, how are you? We've lasted this long without Rob. Who would have thought? Sorry Rob, who? Yeah, exactly. Looking forward to another jam-packed episode, we're probably at 21 minutes 30 seconds now so I'd like to welcome another one of our guests for this season and her name is Wendy McWilliam from Research Australia and she's the Strategic Communications Manager there. How are you Wendy? Good, thank you Sarah. Great to have you. Hello Wendy, good to have you. Thanks Andrew. I feel like I'm in the middle, because you guys know each other so much. I'm afraid as well. Yeah, exactly, so I'll try and keep up guys. I don't want the team down. Shouldn't be too many insight actually. Yeah. So before we get into it and before we start peppering you, let's get straight over to Andrew with your thumbs up for this fortnight. Thanks Sarah. I have to give a thumbs up for me is highlighting the fantastic work of the Asia Pacific Incentives and Meeting Expo. Very recently they celebrated or delivered their 25th and biggest annual conference to date. This is a huge event in Melbourne that attracts delegates from the meetings, from the event sectors, from all over the world and four and a half thousand delegates at this year's event. Wow. That's a decent event. Had an amazing range of speakers, let me throw a few names at you Sarah. Holly Ransom, I'm sure we've all heard of. Ida Buttrows, Kirk Pangilli, you wouldn't know. No, showing my age. There used to be a band called in excess. So very impressive putting on an event of that size and well done to the hardworking team at AIME who no doubt already turned their minds on how to better that event in 2018. It would be good if they had some sort of a case study about how they got so many people to that event. And how it's obviously grown from something so much smaller. So thumbs down that leads me to many viewers. This has been unfortunate. Many viewers would have seen the stories about the class action being lodged against APCO group and what's termed sham contracting. That's hiring independent workers as contractors when they really are employees. So far this has been isolated to a single organization, albeit one that had staff working for multiple charities across Australia. But as part of the four per sector, this really is an appalling black eye for all of us and some of the directors of those organizations who were using APCO contractors, who were underpaid, who were exposed to very unfair workplace conditions. Some of these people are going to be shifting pretty nervously in their seats right now. So this is a big problem. As I say, unfortunately, it negatively impacts the entire sector. So as I say, a huge thumbs down to those involved. Unfortunately, the beneficiaries of those charities, they're the people that are going to be missing out. That is really dodgy. I know. And as I say, it's unfortunate that the broader sector gets dragged down with it, unfortunately. With every thumbs up, there's definitely a thumbs down. So back to the positive. My thumbs up, and last episode, for those of you who joined, and Andrew, you remember we did speak to Damien from the ADA, amazing panellists regarding governance. And there was a lot of talk around that. This time, I'd like to give a thumbs up to the Australian Institute of Superannuation, trustee, so AIST. They've developed a new governance code that reinforces the importance of member representation on the boards of superannuation funds. So that's great. But what's even better, they've developed this code. They've actually sent that draft code to their membership for their feedback and their consultations. That applies to more than 50 profit to member funds, which is great because it shows they care about their feedback and what they have to say. And I really love this quote from their CEO, Tom Garcia. You can't sound by it to good governance. It doesn't come down to one factor. Good governance is fundamentally about a group of people making good decisions, having the right skills, and also having a strong commitment to the members they serve. And I think that just sums it up. I think it's great. They've done something great, but then they're going to their members for feedback. And back in March, I was actually at the AIST conference and amazing conference up in the Gold Coast. You just really got that sense there as well that they actually do care about their members. And yeah, I just think they're doing really well as an association. Yeah. It'd be fascinating to see just sort of what level of feedback, how many other members do provide that feedback. And that's the sense of engagement, isn't it? Exactly. It's engaging with members and seeing just what they are, how engaged they are in the process. So yeah, some credit to them. And thumbs down. So one word, sponsorship. Now, not that sponsorship in itself is a negative. I don't want to get into this too much, but I do feel like associations tend to sell themselves short when it comes to sponsorship. So they're either too scared to ask. Some people don't know what exists, especially within the online world. So people running online events. And they really sometimes don't even ask for as much as what they were. So we see this a lot.  And then when you talk to them about it, like I said, there's this idea that, you know, oh, I don't know if we could get that much. Or I don't know if we could really do this. I just feel like associations really need to stand up and realize that people are willing to pay good money to reach their members and go out and ask for it. Because if you don't ask for it, you don't know, but don't sell yourself short. What are your thoughts on this? Because you're in communications. So I'd be interested to see your experience, not only within Research Australia, but in your previous roles, Wendy. The sponsorship for online events, webinars, webcasts, it's the unknown knowledge. Within associations, sometimes we lack that knowledge of how the breadth of the audience. We look at our members and so we've got 8,000 members. Our online community is that 8,000 members where you and I know that it's not. It's quadruple that. It's a spiderweb, but it continues to grow and grow and grow. So yeah, it's frustrating, but they should be definitely upselling everything to do with online sponsorship. Maybe we should be helping people get knowledge out there as opposed to just winging on it on thumbs down. I'll take that task on. Let's look at that for a future guest spot on this show. Yeah, possibly. So with that out the way, thumbs up, thumbs down. Thank you so much for your input. Thank you. We are going to turn our attention to our special guest back to you, Wendy. So first of all, you've been with Research Australia for just a short while. Can you tell us a little bit about them and what they do? Very short while, actually, Sarah. So Research Australia, I guess our purpose is to make health and medical research the high priority for government, for the consumers in the community, and for those doing the research. So this is very different to science. Health and medical within our association. We traditionally represent a really broad spectrum. It's the universities, it's the health and medical research institutes. It's also the corporate health corporates, so Telstra Health have a huge facet. They're actually one of our foundation members, Bupa, and then even the private sector. So you've got the pharmaceutical companies, they're our members, so we wear many hats. The way we push our story is through advocacy. We have two team members that go to Parliament and talk to Parliamentary members about our cause. Nice. And that's putting health and medical research on them. So much bigger. Yeah, definitely. It's huge. Wow. So I mean, you're the strategic communications manager at Research Australia, as you say. Now, what does that mean to you? So from a membership communications, you're talking about big organisations. What does that mean at that communication? How are you communicating to those members? And growing your members, no doubt. So it's a different association to, I guess, my previous groups that I've worked for. So we represent organisations within that organisations. We have individual, they're not members, they're individual contacts, I guess. So I'll give you one example. Monash University is one of our organisational members. Within that organisation is 61 members. Okay. So they're really engaged with us. So I'm actually communicating to 61 members from the Dean to the 2IC researcher. Wow. So it's pretty hard to segment your communication pieces. Is it based on job title? Is it based on location? Is it based on which part of the sector they represent? And it's a struggle that I'm trying to work through right now, Andrew. So any suggestions are great. But it is difficult, really difficult. Is there broad membership? But also our weakness is how do you target those specific audiences? So that's obviously the challenge is the Dean is talking a different language to the 2IC down the bottom. So what do you do in terms of what are your communication channels to your members? I guess the top end of town, it's our board. So we had our board meeting last week and it was the first time I got to experience this high calibre of 15 people in a room. We can communicate directly one on one with that group because that's how we engage with our members. The other people, we don't run events as such. So apart from an awards dinner, which I think a lot of associations do. So at the end of the year we do an awards dinner, which really focuses on that individual upcoming researcher. But generally I think it's just through a variety of different tools. Online submissions plus our Inspire magazine, which is a quarterly magazine, e-newsletters and e-mail, EDMs and etc. Just on that because we spoke about in the past when we had Gillian, or Gillian and I think Trisha as well. And Andrew mentioned the take up of digital as opposed to the hard copy. Where do you sit on that? Are you a fan of both?  Oh, reps. There was a magazine back at Fitness Australia that was just hard copy and we became both. Now I'm working with just online, digital. The uptake is huge. The contributors are our members. I send out a call for contributors. I filled my magazine within four weeks. The deadline was two weeks ago. I didn't chase one contributor, but I am working with academics. So that is something they really work towards. They love that deadline and they love contributing and talking about what their work is. I really like online. I like flip books. I like being able to click through to URLs. I want to explore, go deeper into that article. I want to be stimulated also by images. And I think our members do as well, no matter where they're from. So you've got obviously, Wendy, your breadth of association experience is large and diverse. What are you seeing from a member engagement point of view that you think is something that more people should be taking up? That we probably need to scrap the tick box. So that tick box of features and benefits of members. I represent organizations now. My previous organization was representing individuals. Both had tick boxes. One was $50 per person. I'm now working with $5,000 to $50,000 memberships. Both had tick boxes. How does that even cut across? How do I contribute $50,000 because I get more ticks than someone who's contributing $1,500? Get rid of that. You can work with features and benefits looking at the individual stakeholder. That's my advice. And you're also involved as well as Research Australia with another organization, Wings of Hope. Can you just tell us a little bit more about that and how people can get involved because it's a great cause? Yeah, thank you, Sarah. So I'm a founder of Wings of Hope, which is a not-for-profit association as well, looking at those bereaved by suicide. We were set up by the bereaved community and we now have a resource called Red Chocolate Elephants. It's a printed resource with a DVD, a little bit old score, but we're looking at changing that. To digital? To digital totally because it's targeting under 10-year-olds. Wow. So they probably want to look at it at their iPad and listen to the audio. And what we're doing, our project this year is to distribute that Red Chocolate Elephant resource into every primary school nationally. So you can definitely show your support by going on our website, which is wingsofhope.org.au. Excellent. Wow. So nationally, that's going nationally. Oh, nationally. It's going nationally. That's fantastic. 33,000 primary schools in Australia. Yep. So we've done 1,000. We're getting there. Baby steps. Yeah. So you mentioned the board. So does your board actually engage with your members? And if they do, how do they do that? Well, all our board represent members. So the way to engage with members, and I guess one of the strategies is to grow your membership is for them to promote membership. Okay. So I was thinking after our board meeting last week is why don't we do an NPS to our board? So we send in a promoter score out to all our board members, because if they're not referring the association that they're part of onto their peers and or leaders of the organizations, then how do we continue to grow? We don't want them to be detractors. We want them to be promoters. So you can really leverage your board, especially when you look at that room of high-caliber people. They've got the members behind them. Is that quite common in your experience, Andrew? Have you ever been part of something like that? That's a great question. I mean, there's often boards that are sort of consisting of people that are elected by members. So are, in fact, members. And then there are those that are appointed who aren't. You know, sometimes I've seen there's a disconnect between the appointed directors as opposed to, you know, representing the members and those that are elected. So the elected members tend to want to engage with the members because they want to get re-elected at the end of their term. But it's a challenge to sort of get that steady, regular involvement, certainly. So if you can do it at Research Australia, I'm keen to hear some tips on how you did it, that's for sure. Absolutely. All right. And when to your sort of, again, from an association's background, Karen, what is it about the associations that keeps you in the sector? That we get to look at organizations and work out the need. So if they can't do something themselves, how can we help them? And also if they can, the association can probably do it better. You know, creating that alliance, building that group together to sort of go forward to the government or to get discounts on utilities, et cetera. Yeah. That's my purpose in life with associations. Yeah. Well, it looks like you're enjoying it and you're doing great work on both ends of the spectrum. Thank you. So thanks so much. Thanks very much, Andrew. Now, as always, we want you to stick around because I think you're going to be very proud of Andrew for this next segment. So as always, every fortnight, we ask Andrew to go around through the internet, find the most obscure association he can find, and then bring it to us to showcase the amazing work they're doing. So what do you have for us today? Thanks, Sarah. And on that, I'm still waiting for the reimbursement of my travel expenses too if you can check into that. But thank you, that. And as our viewers will know of the last couple of weeks we've certainly been to North America. We went to Iceland. Have you booked your holiday yet? Oh, you went to Iceland.  But we're back in Australia now and very pleased to talk about the Australian Miniature Enthusiasts Association. That's right, the AMEA, as I like to call them. Miniature people? Let me finish. Okay, sorry. This is my seat. The AMEA, thinking miniature doll houses, miniature furnishings that go into miniature doll houses and so forth, miniature life fittings, if you will. I'm making an assumption about that last point. But the AMEA has some very, very worthy aims. Let me read a couple of to you. Promote the hobby of miniature making and collecting. Very important. The share of miniature-related information in a non-competitive forum. Raising capital to undertake such tasks and provide advice and assistance to clubs that do miniatures and publish a newsletter three times a year. So to top that all off, if you find yourself in Hobart later this year around the end of September, you might be able to come along to the Miniature Enthusiasts Association hosted by the Miniature Enthusiasts of Tasmania. And that's a scary thought because there's obviously a lot of state-based miniature enthusiasts out there. So there you have it, the AMEA doing excellent work in their chosen field. All the very best to them. Great to be able to feature them on this segment. And will you be going to Tasmania or is this something we need to start a GoFundMe page to make sure that we can get you there because you see a little bit or about it, to be honest. That's a fantastic idea, yes. You can go to this website and make a donation and I'll happily report on it for a future episode. www.wingsofhope.com.au Something like that instead. Maybe you can decide where your money's better spent. Excellent. Well, there's our two-minute warning. Who would have thought? That happens so quickly, doesn't it? So just on that, this is a time where we can actually go back, look at the last episode we had and also share the feedback that we've actually received from you guys regarding last week's feedback as well. So any feedback from you this time around? Well, one thing it's probably worthy of mentioning now and great news is that we are pleased to announce that you and I and a, as yet to be known, guest will be doing another live show at the Aussie, the Ace Convention this year. So the negotiations have happened. They've been mostly, mostly good-natured. So Brendan and the team are inviting us back. So that's fantastic. And that's on May 11th and 12th here in Sydney. So really looking forward to that. Yeah. And we're going to have an open panel. So we don't really know who we're going to have on there yet. So if anyone would like to put an application forward, we don't have a process, but just feel free to get in touch and we'll go from there. Highly unlikely Brendan will put his hand up because I think after last year. That's a challenge, Brendan. We're looking for you. Yes, we are. Well, thank you on that note. Thank you, Andrew. As always, great to be sitting beside you and getting through all the segments that we so much love. And also thank you, Wendy. Like I said, it looks like you're doing some great work and great, you know, showing some other associations out there, your tips and your advice within the comm sector. Anytime. Great to have you here, Wendy. Good talk. Thanks. Yeah, and any future feedback, good or bad, anything else you want to tell us or let us know, feel free to hashtag 6DA. Also go to 6degreesofassociation.com to watch previous episodes and also future episodes. That's where you'll find them. And also associationsuccess.org. There's also some great information there that you can find. Thanks again. Join us next time when we're speaking to Lee Tonito, CEO of the Australian Marketing Institute. Thanks again. And remember, too much conversation always kills the chat. Bye for now.


This is where it gets controversial, but we need to start talking about this, the bioethics of it. What do we do with somebody who's unvaccinated, who's taking advanced ICU therapies from somebody who is vaccinated in the hospital? Did you smoke? Did you drink recently? If you did, you're lower on the list, even if you need it. The most vaccinated company in America is Fox News. They're all vaccinated.  Thousands of people are supposed to die to undermine Joe Biden and help the Republicans. It's sad. Yeah. That's about what this is getting. It's what they think. Yeah. They let them die.  They don't care. When that other party has made the conscious decision to make itself a criminal organization, to make itself an organization that harbors domestic terrorism, an organization devoted to ending democracy as you know it, it's kind of our last stand here, Joy, because I'll tell you, if Republicans get back the reins of power in the 2022 elections, in the 2024 election, they will never relinquish it again. We are seeing the extraordinary lengths to which Republicans are willing to go to throw out a free and fair election in 2020. If we let them back in the driver's seat of democracy, it's over. I know just off the top of my head, at least half a dozen people who've got COVID who are vaccinated, but who got it in settings where they were around mixed groups. So the unvaxxed are spreading this thing and it's mutating, let's be frank, because of the unvaccinated, okay? Well, it's a frightening moment for our democracy because it's rigging the system before our very eyes right now. We're definitely afraid for our troops and definitely afraid for our democracy. We'll begin the readout tonight with a warning. This could be it. We may be in the waning years of America as a democracy. I know, I know, I know. That sounds like hyperbole. The only party left that actually supports democracy, it's incumbent that Democrats prevent that outcome because Republican victories in 2022 and 2024 could literally mean the end of free elections. There is this sort of aspect to the Republican Party now where it is a full-on cult now. Do you think the Democrats are afraid enough? Because I see them out there arguing over whether it's going to be another billion here, another billion there on their bill, like that's going to matter if we don't have a democracy. Everybody is in on the joke except for the gullible white supremacist viewers of Fox News. It's hard for me to talk about because as a black man, I don't got family that watched that channel, right? I don't have family that like, you know, buys into the white supremacist rhetoric that that channel puts out. But a lot of y'all white people do. We're marching towards an inevitable situation where an election is going to happen. These fools, these people are going to show up with guns armed, trying to intimidate voters. I just want to know what the breaking point is for particularly the media class here in Washington to start identifying the Republican Party for what it is, which is an anti-democratic racist force in America. And every time that we excuse the Republican Party's ways and try to normalize them, we are helping and eating and abetting them in their effort to try to take out democracy.


So you've all been watching and listening to the news this week and you know that you may know that this morning I and I am has announced that we will be returning 15,000 migrants from detention in Libya Young man beside me has been on a similar journey. So I think this will be a particularly enlightening conversation We have plenty of time to discuss it and we're going to be talking about their personal stories But also learning a lot about the issue of irregular migration through West Africa The role of the so-called connection men the famous connection men who encourage people to take very dangerous journeys The role of social media in encouraging these journeys to happen through instant communication between people and the connection men and Then the terrible things that can happen when you arrive somewhere I'm not going to ruin the story, but just to let it unfold naturally and on my left I've got Fabiola who's from Brazil who Spent many many years in this country in Switzerland and then due to economic conditions decided to return home and Had to figure out how to do that at a time of great personal stress and economic stress My colleague on my right Agustin is from Nigeria He too was a victim of the economic circumstances as so many people in the world today tend to be And decided that nothing was happening in his career in Nigeria and that it was time to move elsewhere And he took a fateful decision to do that So without further ado, I'm just going to turn to Fabiola first So Fabiola tell us a little bit about your personal story How did you end up in in Switzerland because sometimes people have an image of what a migrant is and they just all they can Think of is what they saw on Al Jazeera or CNN people being rescued out of a rubber dinghy or not But as we all know in this room migration is a far more complex picture, and I think we're going to hear a little bit about that Good morning to all the presents here. I'm so grateful for I am for being here. Well, my history is Making a longer story short is that I met my husband in Brazil He's a Swiss man and so I came here to Switzerland and I lived in For 17 years here nine years in Freiburg and nine years eight years in Lausanne But I divorced we divorced after five years and I had a job but I lost the job I had so I had to go back to Brazil And I decided to implement a language school to share with people a little bit of the culture and The tongues that I acquired here while I lived here in Switzerland So, I mean what we're hearing about is a professional so it's a completely different picture than you quite often hear about migrants and of course the The eternal story of love is at the heart of it and I think quite often when people talk or think about migration They're simply thinking Economic migrants trying to get a job moving across the borders don't know why they're doing it Why are they breaking the rules they should go home? That's kind of the popular narrative But in fact the truth is it's a much more complex picture So tell us a little bit about what happened to you after you lost your job Thank you. I lost my job 2014 I worked in a private bank in Lausanne.  So what? what made me what made me to take the decision was going back home and living With my family again So I think what we're touching on here is it is something that is often not considered in the big debate about migration is that Personal decisions people feel they're very far from their family Their parents are getting old in this case Fabiola's dad passed away Her mother was alone and they're living irregularly or they can't continue and they want to find a way home So I think quite often the debate and the discussion about migrants is quite often a binary one Send them home where they're taking our jobs, but in fact, it's not the case whatsoever It's a personal request and decision to be reunited with family. So how did how did you end up? Moving had what was the next step in the journey? So I want to go home, but that I was 35 and I felt so old I didn't get my college degree and it's so difficult to find a job in Brazil without a college degree so I Started to to have this idea to to create a language school and To help people that couldn't afford Language school a private language school in Brazil. That's so expensive to come to my school. That's three times Lower the price is three times Lower than the other schools This is so and you're bringing your mark your experience The languages you've learned you've learned beautiful English as we can hear and obviously fluent French And you're teaching you're going to be teaching in this lovely school at different levels You're going to start at a basic level for English people for English students I just give it to the beginners to To the three years till they can get the first Certificate of Cambridge and French till the advanced level so they can get the DALF the diploma Advanced along Frances. So your journey home began then with a meeting or hearing about IOM and tell us a little bit about how that happened Well as I lost my job And I couldn't find another job so easily here in Switzerland because I was working in Portuguese with With a Portuguese bank. I went to the social social service That gave me indicated me IOM so they could help me if I had a Project to go on so what you what we're talking about is the IOM Assisted voluntary return and reintegration program which has been you know really growing in strength and growing in understanding That it's a truly voluntary process that helps. I think it helps in the fluidity of migration because as we're hearing people get stuck They get stuck in their lives and they want to go home to their family and they'd need a route home And quite often the the you know, we there's a misunderstanding of what a viewer or means in some cases Deliberate misunderstanding, maybe but this isn't a very interesting case So we're going to move across now to Augustine. We'll come back to you in a minute So Augustine you tell us a little bit about your story. So you were you also ran into hard economic times in in Nigeria? Yeah 2015 was a very very very difficult here from a country After the change of power from one party to another There was a problem of latency We are Nigeria major Resources Ninja major revenue was blocked by the people from the Niger Delta They were explored. They were bombing all pipeline and everything. So there was economical Strogulation in my country The country was no longer a sporting oil. So there was no money coming in So it was very very difficult for someone who has been having three me per day To even have one. So I mean also companies. We are retrenching workers People companies was up to 100 200. We're now reducing the worker or their workers to maybe not something like 50 to 20 Just to keep on you stand. So it is very difficult for when companies retrench is very difficult to get a new job So people you're losing their jobs. So When this happens the migration begins so when I lost my job, so for a couple of months I could not get another job. So the best thing I have to think okay Maybe I should go to a number in country. Oh, maybe I should go to Europe. So at the end of the day I decided to go to Europe through the desert So from there I was how my immigration journey began so let me just interrupt So I think the perception we often have is that those leaving for Europe are the poorest of the poor The people with really no hope But in fact what you're telling us is that here you are a professional You were a political activist who were journalists you decided to go. I mean is that is that typical? Were you typical of those who were taking this very risky journey? Yeah migration Is a journey of hope Both ends in despair So at the beginning Let me let me just say Last year or two years ago Africans are not really informed about the dangers of irregular migrations We don't really know what is going to happen at the other side We only we only have the idea that okay. We can easily cross to the other side and everything so When I was Going to Europe so I took the deserts and everything so I never knew that It's going to end in despair So you were maybe looking so far as you decided not to go to Libya. You decided to go to Algeria Yeah, now. Why did you not go to Libya? What were you learning along the way? So when I was on my way, I had different stories about what's happening in Libya the modern day slavery You'll be kidnapped you be electrocuted then you'll be you'll be giving phones to call your family your standard everything So I decided oh, maybe I should seek for another route Then I find another route which is more safe, which is more secure and everything so I migrated through the other routes Communication is obviously a very important thing what sources of information do these migrants do migrants have as you travel along?  Let me just say the social media plays a very vital role An important role in migrating in the life of all migrants. We have been a gem on ice We pick things from the social medias You understand so the social media is what we see on the social media. It is not what it is So people began to migrate from what they see on the social media. Yes, and so Let me just say for example. I'm in Switzerland. Yes, then I go to the streets of Switzerland I take good pictures and post it on the internet and nobody knows what I'm doing here in Switzerland Maybe I'm working fine. Yes, then maybe I got a job. Maybe I do this or that Nobody knows so they only pick that if this person could be in Europe. I can also be in Europe So no matter what you told them no matter what even at the beginning of the journey We stayed now 70% of people knows the dangers of this journey you stand But due to what we've gotten on the social media. We have been a gem on ice. So Africans do anything To get to the finite destination. So we need to know a little bit more about communication But before we go deeper into that we're going to give you a treat and give you show you play two videos Which show the lives of these two fantastic young people Let's start with Fabiola And I was very happy to know that I was bringing to my country something that I had learned there To bring a language that is French that I learned in Switzerland It was wonderful because they welcomed me with a huge affection And they gave me a lot of security So I see these schools with many students, many graduates, many students I'm a student in English or French So I'm contributing with my initial goal That was to do something to improve our country To do something, to feel useful to the Brazilian society And contribute to the growth of this country that I love It seems that my adventures, my experience outside All of this prepared me for my challenge now For the moment I'm living today Thank you so much Thank you so much So let's see what's happening in Nigeria With Augustine I just want school I just want to leave I just want to find a greener posture There's something more better Will you understand? Then I bought a boss to work at his The way you're being smuggled Was the hardest part of the journey 30 people at the back of the illus vergo 30 people I took my camera, took my money and everything Then dropped us at the desert It was above 45 degrees You understand, something is above 45 degrees Your skin is burning When I got to Algeria Then I began to see the rift of the journey That even the one I just passed Was just a preamble Who can swim the Mediterranean Sea? No one Then I said no I can't I have a lovely mom who does not know I just have to go back home And start a new life Why internet radio? I got my inspiration during the journey When I was in Agades During the IUM centre When I met up to 5000 people People were coming, were going People went to prisons People, their brothers, their loved ones Kids at their sites They did not know the dangers of the journey They did not know the dangers of the journey I then thought it is better for me to go back home To sensitize Nigeria And I am happy that I have achieved something I am happy that I have achieved something Great, well thank you so much I think these are terrific videos Which we are going to be spreading around You will be getting them in your inbox as any day now As we try and explain to people The values And the incredible benefit that Assisted voluntary return brings Fabiola, tell us a little bit about What you think, you know What is the kind of message you would like to give to the world About your journey A message Leonard It may seem naive But in my case If I have learned a lesson Is that everywhere Or almost, almost everywhere Not everywhere, but almost everywhere Can be paradise Of course people was Speaking to me all the time Are you crazy to leave Switzerland Switzerland is a rich country Developed and you go back to Brazil But I really think that everywhere Can be paradise if you have the people you love And that you are loved in return So for me paradise now Is in Brazil where I am with my family and near relatives But I will always keep Switzerland In my heart And it will always be A second home for me And in your society When you go back home Do you hear a lot of negative conversations About migrants Is there a lot of misunderstanding About what migration is? There are indeed a lot of misunderstandings In my country for example The country is crossing A difficult period Now and everybody was Asking to me the same question All the time How could I go back To Brazil Where did I get the courage To go back to Brazil But And so tell us what's the 5 million dollar question What's the answer to the 5 million dollar question What do you tell people When you get that question I need to go back I need to live with my family You need to live with your own society Augustine you are in the hot seat Now as a seasoned journalist I know I can ask you what your takeaways are What is the takeaway For your extraordinary migration journey And what you brought back And what you're trying to do Let me say Irregular migration The journey does know what it is You stand Africa is a continent of hope It's a continent of ad-working people You stand Instead of we migrating irregularly We can step back home And develop whatever we had Look at the Europe They develop whatever they had With good, they hold Their leaders accountable for everything If we can do the same in Africa For the next 5 years to 10 years I believe Even everybody in Europe will migrate to Africa So let me Let me say Africa is the continent of hope It's a continent of ad-working people So we don't need to migrate irregularly The journey does know what it is It takes your life It takes your happiness It takes everything away from you Let us stay back home And develop whatever we have It is only we that can develop our country Nobody will develop it for us Africa is a very rich Without Africa The world won't be where it is today We are talking of people Even the people who have changed the world Whatever they used to change the world Was developed from Africa So let's just do these things together Let's also develop Africa I think we have a lot of work to do with you When you go back home We'll have to be in touch So the message really is that Contrary to many of the media tropes That are so easily thrown Around about what Africa is It's a far more complex picture And there's plenty of opportunity To make your life there So how do you in practice Tell your peers back home And are they listening to you Are they still dazzled by The bright lights of El Dorado Let me say At the beginning of my journey We were not informed about the dangers Of irregular migrations Let me say 70 to 80% of people Cannot even differentiate Between irregular and regular migrations So the mentality We all had was that Oh, if I can just get to my final destination If I can get to Europe Life begins to change for me That is why I said The social medias plays a very vital role In these journeys of irregular migrations That is why even though We are going to start sensitizing Nigerians and Africans And everybody all over the world Because it is a global issue It is an issue that needs a global Collaborations Be it from wherever you are Be it from Europe Be it from Africa Be it from the Middle East So we must come together And that is what I have seen the IOM are doing Because migration With IOM going to one in a 66 country Or one in 60 countries In these migration jobs Shows that there is a unity among countries So the thing we have to do Okay, the things we have to do Is to go back home And use these same social media That are using To deceive people Mostly the connection main And also use it to sensitize Africans About the dangers of this journey So I just wanted to ask you At what point in your optimistic Because you are an optimistic fellow we can see that At what time in your optimistic journey To Europe did you say this is not a great idea What was your darkest hour When I got To a part of the journey And I heard Different things about Libya How people were sold for modern slavery How people were beaten How people were electrocuted And I said I have a better country Even though My country is facing Struggulation I can go back home and do something So at that place I said no the journey does not worth it Let me go back home One thing that is often said to us Is that once migrants have committed to taking this journey It is very hard for them to turn back Because of a feeling of personal shame Maybe they have borrowed money from their family Maybe their mother has Mortgage sold something How do you How does that work for you And how do you think it works for others going home Let me say Let me make an instance When I was at the IOM center in Agades When I met 5000 people IOM is doing a very good job To be sincere When I met 5000 people Even though when people know the risks of this journey 10% to 20% We still want to go Because when they look back home there is nothing to go back to And that is why If we must talk about the dangers Of irregular migration If we must sensitize Africans about the dangers Of irregular migration We also are going to talk about the solutions Which is youth empowerment Ski acquisitions We must give them hope That once you go back home There will be something you can do To assist yourself and your family Because Once you are In the middle of this journey Even when you are aware of these dangers When you look back home Who are you going to meet You spent your borrowed money You spent all your money on this journey I think the best solution To this thing Is we as we talk about the dangers We talk about the problem We also talk about the solutions Thank you So this has been a fascinating conversation of three people We'd now like to bring in the audience a little bit more And in particular Director General Swing Could I invite you Would you like to ask any questions of our panelists First of all let me say thank you To both of you We have a lot of admiration For you and the courage you've had To start out on a journey Into return and to try to Learn from that experience Which I look I think that We need to recognize that In this mobile interconnected world We can Both move and return And we can both be An active Migrant abroad contributing there But also contributing back home Through remittances and Skills transfer and other things You can be And fully integrated into The local society and still Not forget where you come from And contribute back home And that's the whole idea Is that we live in a fluid world And we have many identities We can have many nationalities We can speak many languages But I think what both of you Are showing us is that You've made the effort You've benefited from that And what you've learned You've taken back home Now I was just in Obok in Djibouti And I interviewed a number Of primarily Ethiopian Migrants And I said to them I said look You're going to cross the red sea Which is turbulent You may lose your life By drowning You're going to get to Yemen And you cannot get across the border Of where you're heading for And you're going to get into trouble We may have to bring you back So why are you going? And they said very much What both of you have said I'm going because It's worse back there Than where I'm heading In other words the opportunities At home were not enough So these are messages for Countries of origin Countries of destination And organizations like IOM That we have to begin To address the drivers What drives people To go out on what I would call Force migration Regular migration, 90% Of all the migration in the world Is regular, is safe, regular, orderly Et cetera But for that group That feel there's no hope Then we have to address Those drivers of migration Being increasingly climate changes We learned yesterday And what bothers me Every time I go I was just in Agadez I know exactly what you're talking about It's a great center We've returned 8,000 from Agadez We've returned 13,600 From Libya People who wanted to go home But I think One needs to benefit From all the experience And as you're doing Through your language school And through your radio You're giving people a chance To benefit from that Now what scares me though Every time I go To some of the countries Particularly in Africa Is I see Joblessness No livelihood possibility For young people Because the land has gotten Poor and poor And less and less possibility To earn a living through agriculture Which should be the first Possibility And then I see that The median age in Niger Where Agadez is located Is 14 Average person Average mother is having Six children The median age 14 The median age in Europe Is 47 So Somewhere There has to be a connection between These demographic divide And migration Now it's going to be handled Well I think that's fascinating and it brings us on to the Subject of circular migration really And I think a very powerful message That our two guests can bring To the world and we'll help them do that Is that it's not necessarily a one way street migration And that it's a big learning journey And you learn so much To bring back to your country of origin And to add to it Of course it's not going to solve The problems of unemployment which are horrendous In many parts of the world But I think the perception of migrants Can be changed And two voices like this Can certainly show to the world That the migrant in your head Is not necessarily the actual migrant And maybe there's an opportunity To change the setting And what we consider migrants to be And that they are huge drivers of innovation If they're allowed to go back home And we mentioned the diaspora Remittances but tell us a little bit Of your reaction to that To the Director General What do you think you're a good example Of bringing something back Is that welcomed or are you seen as a No you should have stayed in Switzerland It's very welcomed And I'm so Happy to have to be in Brazil now Because people they are Everybody that I speak about To the school and Bringing this culture To Brazil they are so happy And they want so much to come To the school I'd like to encourage anybody who wishes to Ask questions to please indicate With your sign But Tell us a little bit about your sense Of what it's a tougher case In your case because you You didn't spend that much You didn't get to Europe But do you think there's something That migrants learn on the journey And bring back and Tell us a little bit About how you're going to be the Driver of economic growth Okay I think there are a lot of things To learn from the journey Mostly taking the route I took Talking of the pain You're talking of how you were smuggled You're talking of not Are you a metric take If you're not lucky You're made to the bandits Take everything you have If you're a lady you may be RIP If you're not on the lucky side As a guy you may be sued For slavery or you may be kidnapped So And I just Tangled that I'm going on About these dangers Of irregular migration Couples to what happens What is happening in Libya now And everything So there are much things to learn The pain and the anger and everything You may go without returning You may end up dying At the desert So as for this We want everybody to stay back home And develop whatever they have So we will not just be Talking about the problem We also create solutions To the problem That is empowering people Given those people Want to go to school We make sure they go to school With the support of local governments And NGOs So you were telling me in the green room That in your journey When you finally reached Algeria Things were not so easy Because of sub-Saharan Africans That seems to be the case In so many countries Where there is resistance to the Income risk Maybe you could talk a little bit about In general terms about what it's like To be not welcome And of course in your own country There are migrants coming from all over West Africa as well Do they feel welcome? In my own country everybody feels welcome When I was in It is a good country Very good country A country of law They have laws and we all respect That law But immigrants are still immigrants Mostly once you migrate irregularly Without papers and everything So you know once you are Irregular migrants When you say you are not welcome Is when you don't have necessary papers You don't have jobs Because if you migrate regularly There will be jobs There was a reason you migrated And you are going to get Why you migrated Because migration has the two sides The regular side and the irregular side More fortunately I fell I fell into the irregular side Which whatever I pass through The journey the blame should be on me Not in the country So as for that I won't really be Welcome into the country Because I will be running away from the police I will be running away from many things And everything But if I was irregular migrants I would just tender my paper or my card And I would be welcomed The director general spoke about The huge youth demographic In Africa Looking forward What do you see happening There has to be a change A massive change in the economic growth In Africa or are we going to see More and more people making this Journey and getting into trouble As Africa it is now Africa is growing Politically Because you can't talk about Africa Without adding politics to it What is happening all over the country The elections and everything So these are also one of the causes Of irregular migrations You are talking of war You are talking of many things So it's going to take a long way For us to solve this problem And that is why we should always Expect migrants from Africa On to when we get our economy right On to when we get our political system Right Because let me just say Our politicians are selfish This is one of the reasons Why we are going to have Because apart from economy Politically And political war in the country People does not have choice Than think of migrations So as we are also solving The problem of economy In every country We should also please Put things together and solve African political system So I think you are saying that Economic stability, political stability Are very important Because you can't talk about Economy without talking about politics And you seem to be also saying That There needs to be an exception Because inevitably people will want To move as you said in this video The grass is always greener Fabiola, going back to you You moved Out of a more prop But many Brazilians Come here and many Brazilians Travel all over the world What is the experience? Experience, it's very rich It's a very rich experience Now that I've Lived here I lived here for 17 years I know that I'm so grateful for This experience Because I know that I look the world With complete New eyes I would never look the world With the eyes I look today If I hadn't have this experience So I think what we are talking about Is the challenge of how do you Balance between The need for migration Reaching force that migration is From these two wonderful people And the lack of channels The lack of legal routes The lack of ability I'm sure if you could have got a visa To Europe you would have jumped at it Made a big contribution here And maybe that's the big debate How do we open up the channel So people can migrate regularly And indeed return Because you migrated regularly at the beginning And you did not Have the experience Does anybody in the audience Wish to comment at this point? Oh yes please Representatives from Sudan You're very welcome I'm just asking what is The moral of the two stories Because there are thousands Of millions of migrants Represent the other side of the Story They are integrated in the host Destination Contributing to the stability And the development of their countries So I just want to understand What is wrong with those two examples Stay at the host destination And keep their life The same course still Having contact and link with their societies I just want to know The very meaning and the very moral Of the story You mean people never migrate Or they don't stay at host And go back The core value of these two examples Well for me What I'm hearing Is that there need to be legal channels of migration People need Want to move in this case Because of love as I keep saying In this case because of a desire To get out of an economic difficulty And if you can't migrate regularly People will just do it But there needs to be a political shift And an acceptance that migrants will come And I think the wonderful moral Of this story here from Fabiola Is that people go home The notion in the media I think and I'm from that originally Is that it's a one way street But it's of course not a one way street It's very much a two dimensional journey And an enriching one If it's allowed to happen Anybody would you like to comment further? I think you've said it though Yeah anybody else So I mean the The challenge of course Is that so many people For economic reasons We've got two outstanding examples here But so many people leave without much hope And without much information And end up in shocking difficulties And I think that's what we've seen This last couple of weeks With the issue of Libya Where it's become a global issue An issue of moral conscience Around the globe That we cannot in this day and age Tolerate slave markets Wherever they are happening Anywhere in the world We can't tolerate this happening under our watch And so as a result of that We have a massive political coming together This week in Abidjan At the initiative of the African Union With the European Union support With the UN Secretary General Present With the Security Council Backing it earlier in the week And with IOM very much At the initiative of the director general Take people out of a desperate situation Because at the end of the day The conditions that people are living through In the detention centres are appalling I've been there with the director general And we are in the nicer part of it The pit that's organised by the government And is supported by Aid from the European Union Aid from the United States Aid from all around the place This is the better part of it But the true story of what happens Is very much hidden and we just get little glimpses of it The initiative to airlift Between now and Christmas To now in the beginning of the year 15,000 people This is an air bridge of historic proportions And it's High time we had maybe Better processes So that people aren't lured into this journey Maybe you'd like to address that issue Agostin We really have to find another way Than to have people take the bus And be abused along the way The answers are open already What we did What the high wm did At the Niger He just let's look for the solutions Let's talk less of the problem Let's talk more on the solutions Why are people migrating irregularly The causes The push factors and everything What the high wm did A wonderful nice project In the Niger A spanish project Around africans and the world You go to home to homes Those people who doesn't have jobs You tell them ok What are you doing Come to center Those who want to go to school Those who don't have skills That wants to learn one or two things They were given opportunity to acquire one or two skills At the end of the day They were given one or two things to start up business And that was what The high wm did at Niger That was what I saw at Niger So we couldn't expand these frontiers We are not saying We should reinvent the wheel We are saying whatever we have The ideas we have Let's expand it around Africa Around the world Because if people have jobs If you have what you are doing You won't want to migrate If you have a good family You give them three square meter Migration Irregular migration Has to do with one factor Either you are passing through Economic struggles You don't have jobs Or you lose your jobs And it takes you a long way to get another job And then the next thing If you don't want to involve in crime Because if you are an employer You go to crime or something People like we lost our jobs We don't want to involve in crime We don't want to migrate irregularly So the option has been Is in place already We just need high wm On how countries to expand it Let's go to our society Those people that want to acquire skills Let them give them skills Those people that want to go to school Let us send them to school At the end of the day Unless empower them We will wrap up the discussion in a few minutes But I think you put your finger On security for families And the opportunity to have projects Well crafted projects And I know that there's a huge focus now Not just on the airlift Of people out of Libya back home But in their reintegration Into the capacity to Have as you said businesses And for IOM working with all its UN partners to try and rebuild And help them reintegrate And make a more sustainable Economic picture Out of it. I think that's very much what we see With Fabiola with her English school and French school I think it's extraordinary I think the big challenge now Is how do we not just It's always easier to Break something than it is to fix something And the real issue I suppose Is how do we fix economies That are not functioning so well How do we give people hope How do we build apprenticeship schemes How do we bring those back The small assistance they give isn't wasted That they build something Sustainable out of it Maybe you have some ideas Well, I will see you repeat the same Thing I just said Let me just talk a little bit About my reintegration project When I got back to Nigeria And I want to thank the Director General for You giving us this opportunity When we reintegrate back to our country We have something doing and remove Migrating again I am so grateful to the council for this Let me talk about my reintegration project When I got back to Nigeria I was asked what do you want to do Why do you migrate Give us a proposal on what you could do If you are not well Into such project You will be trained for some time You will be coached for some time And you are going to blend You into the society That was what Happened to me in Nigeria It took me a month To get coached If I was given so much of money How can I sustain the project At the end of the day If I need a little bank loan This is how to approach the bank So it is sustainable And that is what I found out about you Whatever project they are Giving to you They make sure they see that It is sustainable You can grow this project Even employing those Who don't have jobs Let me just say We just need to expand these frontiers The answers are there already We don't need to look for the answers again It is there, let's tap into it and expand it How well said There is nothing new under the sun When you go back to Brazil Are you left alone How do you set up a school All by yourself It was not easy To know what I was going to do In Brazil when I get back there I went in 2016 Now there is one year and a half That I am back in Brazil But it was the most difficult decision I think in my life To go back To live in Switzerland To go back to Brazil But The help I had From IOM It was essential Because if I didn't have it I don't think that I would have the courage Really to go back I would maybe stay in Switzerland Because of the stable Work situation that The country has I find this as the person Who often speaks on behalf of the director general I find it really interesting To have these two cases We see media reports all the time Which quite often mischaracterized The role of AVRO or the role of IOM And it projected as something That we are not hearing today This is very much, it seems to me To be a very holistic To use an overused word A very kind of organic People being allowed To continue their lives and to grow in their lives Thanks to some discrete help At the end of the day There's a long chain of people behind IOM There are governments supporting this There's host governments supporting it And there are many hardworking IOM Folks out in the field And of course many Many other NGOs who work closely with IOM And other agencies There's a big tapestry behind What seems to be a very simple fix But to make a simple fix work It takes a lot of coordination And I know that from seeing my IOM My colleagues working hard at making sure That they're very well regulated Well organized and well administered So at that unless there are more questions From the audience I'm going to allow you Go to your lunch because you've all been waiting Very patiently and thank you I want to really thank above all Fabiola Especially very much for your extraordinary story And no less thank Agostin For telling us an amazing story From a different part of the world And thank you all for your great patience And listening and enjoying it, thank you


To be able to study this, the first thing we need is sequence, not just one sequence, but tons of sequences. You all know where this comes from, right? It's the DNA, but it's not entirely trivial to argue how will this DNA sequence, how can we read it, for instance? With COVID and everything, now you've probably seen the swaps and everything, but the question is how do you get from a minute amount of DNA on a swab sample to actually being able to read out the sequences, spaces A, G, C and T? Well, that's not entirely trivial. The first problem, as we saw here, is that the amount of DNA on this swab is so small that there is no way you can do any experiment on it. Even if you used fluorescence probes or anything, we're talking about maybe a few hundred molecules or so. That's never going to work. So how does nature do it? Well, nature has a number of built-in fancy ways to replicate DNA, right? So if I start with the DNA sequence, I'm going to need some colors here, in general, if I have a sequence here, I could take the sequence and maybe get this to split if I have some way of getting this to split. And if this works, I could then have lots of small fragments join in here, right? So that I end up with two DNA spirals instead. Then I've copied it once. If I then repeat that, in the next step, I would have four, and then I would have eight, and then I would have 16, etc. So if I could just copy the DNA the way cells do it, I could amplify this signal and get something to work with. In principle, this is not that hard. You know what enzymes to use for this. The second the DNA is split, we just have to add the DNA polymerase enzyme and add a bunch of these mixed loose bases. If we do that, the DNA polymerase is going to start stitching the bases up so that we get two sequences. The problem though is that we're going to need to start by getting the DNA to split. How do we do that? It's actually very easy. We just heat it up. So if we heat this to 90 degrees centigrade or so, the DNA will loosen up and become two chains. There is only one problem here. What happens to this protein when we heat it up to 90 degrees? It unfolds. So then I have to add this protein again when I'm letting this cool down. In the second step here, I want to heat it up again, then I'm destroying my protein again, and then I need to add new protein, and I need to heat it up, and that new protein, you can probably see that this is going to be very labor-intensive and difficult. So what if it wouldn't be amazing if I could have a type of this protein that was heat-resistant so that it survived 90 degrees centigrade? So if all this worked, I could have a series of experiments where I just add the DNA and then I increase the temperature to get it to split. I reduce the temperature. This heat-resistant polymerase would make two copies. I heat it again, and then I have both copies split. I reduce the temperature, I increase the temperature, reduce the temperature, increase the temperature, reduce the temperature. You can see where I'm going, right? The number of DNA copies would grow as two to the power of n, where n is the number of steps. And as you know now, exponentials grow exceptionally fast. So after a handful of cycles like this, I'm going to have enough DNA to do anything. The only problem is that I need that heat-resistant form of the enzyme. It turns out that people found bacteria in the late 1970s, in particular in Yellowstone, one called Thermos Aquaticus, that thrives in hot geysers around like 60 to 70 degrees centigrade, literally thrives there. It can reproduce at those temperatures, in particular in geysers in Yellowstone. I think that's what gives these geysers a particular green color. This bacterium, it turns out, to be able to survive at these conditions, it has a version of this polymerase that is heat-resistant. Thermos Aquaticus polymerase, or TAC polymerase. So all you really need to do is take the polymerase from this particular bacterium. In principle, I think people might, I forgot whether you try to mutate a few residues to get it even more stable. But the point is that we now have an enzyme that survives up to 90, 95 degrees. It's not going to be efficient there, but that's fine. We don't need it to be efficient. I just need it not to unfold. And then when I drop the temperature back to 50 degrees centigrade or so, it's going to start re-repairing my DNA. So then I don't need to make any copies at all. The person who came up with this seemingly, it's a dirt simple idea, right? It was Kerry Mouldis, and he got the Nobel Prize in 1993 for this. And this process is called PCR, that's that's there. I can write it down. PCR polymerase chain reaction. Every single COVID test, well not every single common ones, there's so-called PCR tests. So can you imagine what they do? So then you take this one, and then you go into the hospital or test center, then you run through a number of these PCR cycles. And now I'm going to have a sample with a ton of viral DNA in it, or RNA in the case of the virus. The only question now, can I find a way to detect that? Because it could be any RNA. It could be my RNA for instance, right? So how do I detect that it's a viral RNA?