J. Besanko, the Chief Operating Officer of the National Archives and Records Administration. On behalf of the National Archives, Arlington National Cemetery, and the Naval History and Heritage Command, I would like to welcome you to today's program on the sinking of the USS Maine. On the 125th anniversary of this event, it is important to reflect not only on the implications of this event on our history, but also the personal stories of those affected. My great-great-uncles, Martin Tuie and John Joseph Tuie, emigrated from Ireland and served in the United States Navy on the USS Maine. On February 15th, 1898, when the explosion occurred, Martin Tuie was aboard the ship as a coal passer. He perished by drowning in the explosion. I learned about Martin's story through the efforts of his mother Margaret, who wrote about him in support of her pension application to the United States government following his death. That pension file and many others are preserved at the National Archives. Margaret and her family were only one of the over 260 American families who lost loved ones on the Maine, and whose stories continue to echo through today. The sinking of the USS Maine was not only an event with implications on the global stage, it was a personal tragedy for each of those families. It is my honor to participate in the events commemorating the USS Maine, the lives lost and the impact of the singular tragedy on national and global history. This event, sponsored jointly by our three agencies, represents one of the many ways that we all preserve and make accessible the documentary history of our nation. I hope you enjoy the presentations by our expert speakers, and thank you for joining us today. Good afternoon, and thank you for listening in. I'm Dr. John Fahey, and on behalf of the United States Naval History and Heritage Command, I am honored to introduce the ship that we're all here to discuss. The USS Maine is one of the most remembered ships in US history. Unlike the Constitution, but monitor the enterprise though, it is not remembered for valiant wartime service, but rather for exploding in a foreign port and sparking a war. While we usually remember Maine due to this tragedy, it's a fascinating ship on its own merits. Today I'll discuss a bit of Maine's history before explaining why the ship went to Havana in January of 1898, and what it did there up until the night of 15 February. USS Maine was built at an interesting time. After the US Civil War, the Navy suffered under severe budget cuts that left with ancient wooden warships. In the 1880s though, Congress started funding the so-called New Steel Navy of cruisers and battleships. Maine and Texas, you could see Maine right there, the plan anyway. So Maine and Texas were the first US battleships built. Maine was bigger than Texas. So at the time, it was the largest warship ever built by the United States. By today's standard, the ship was fairly small, about 6,600 tons and 320 feet long. That's about two-thirds the size of a modern Arleigh Burke class destroyer. It had an eclectic assortment of weapons ranging from 10-inch cannons to Gatlin guns and an unusual lopsided arrangement that you can see on the gun plan there. Maine was laid down in 1888 and launched 18 November 1890. 20,000 people attended the launching ceremony, which you can see there, overseen by Secretary of the Navy Benjamin Tracy. His granddaughter, 12-year-old Alice Tracy Wilmerding, christened the ship Maine. Since the American industry is not fully ready to equip the battleship though, it took five years for US companies to produce the engines, armaments, and fittings for the ship. You can see the scale of it there to kind of see the problem, I guess. They were alone required three years due to the difficulties in procuring nickel and steel. Some of Maine's fittings were new technology and thus particularly hard to acquire. For example, the ship needed about 400 light fixtures. Just over a decade after Thomas Edison had built the first incandescent light bulbs. The Maine is a good representation of US industry and naval power in the early 1900s. The crew is likewise a good representation of US society at the time. Maine was commissioned on 17 September 1895 as a second class battleship, and then became the home of 31 officers and 346 sailors and marines, although that number does fluctuate over the years. The crew was recruited from across the United States and the world. Almost a quarter were born outside the country, a marker of the heavy pace of immigration around the turn of the century. Maine had multiple crewmen from Ireland, Sweden, Germany, Japan, Norway, Denmark, Canada, England, France, and Greece, and other crewmen from other countries. Thirty crewmen were African-Americans. The officers were an interesting mix of the contemporary US Navy. Maine's first captain, Art S. Cronenshield, was a New Yorker and a veteran of the Civil War as was the ship's second captain, Charles Sigsby. The first executive officer, Lieutenant Commander Adolf Merricks, was the first Jewish graduate of the Naval Academy, and Chaplain John P. Chidwick was one of the first Roman chaplain in the Navy. Life on Maine was a lot like life on any Navy ship, with endless watch, drill, and training. The ship itself spent its relatively short career heading up and down the East Coast, getting repaired, refueling, and training naval militiamen. One story may resonate with today's sailors or anyone who's met a sailor. In November of 1895, Maine was sent to the state of Maine to meet with Governor Henry B. Cleves. Traditionally, ships were given a punchbowl by their namesake, but since Maine was a prohibition state at the time, Governor Cleves presented the ship with a set of silver vegetable dishes and a large soup of tory, as you can see here. Chaplain Chidwick recalls later that from then on, Maine, quote, provided for our guests a board ship, a peculiar quality of soup, which had neither vegetables nor meat as component parts. It was exceedingly cheerful in spirit and seemed to be the constant center of attraction to the guests who favored us by their presence. Maine's officers and men held parties, visited New Orleans from Artigraha, and fulfilled their Navy duties. Maine also had some close calls, like the time that three men were washed overboard and lost in a storm off South Carolina, or the time that Captain Sixby rammed a pier in New York Harbor to avoid sinking a ferry full of tourists. All in all, the ship would have had a fairly typical career in the new and expanding American Navy if it wasn't for the Cuban insurrection. Throughout much of the 19th century, Spain had fought a brutal counterinsurgency against Cuban revolutionaries seeking independence. American newspapers and the public became increasingly worried about Spanish abuses of Cuban civilians, particularly as Cuba was governed by General Whaler from 1896 to 1897. Nicknamed the Butcher by the American press, Whaler instituted a policy of reconstitucion, or forcing civilians out of the countryside to live in camps controlled by Spanish forces. Reconstitucion decimated Cuba, killed hundreds of thousands of civilians, failed to end the insurgency, and inspired the use of similar concentration camps across the world. The US government struggled to know how to deal with the humanitarian and diplomatic complexities of this situation. Now, Whaler was recalled in October of 1897 by a new liberal government in Spain, which also granted Cuba a degree of autonomy and a new governor. While these changes were an improvement, Cuba was still unstable, and US-Spanish relations remained strained. Maine was ordered in October of 1897 to be ready to intervene or assist American citizens in interest on the island as decided by President William McKinley. After a few scares, the ship was ordered to make a friendly port visit in January 1898 to Havana. Maine arrived in Cuba on 25 January. Despite some anti-Spanish feelings on board, no member of the crew reported any significant anti-American demonstration while Maine was in Havana. Once anchored at buoy number four, which you can see here to the left of the city by the little x there, Captain Sigurdid went ashore to visit local officials. He also ordered the crew to remain vigilant, allowed no shore leave, and took extra precautions against sabotage. A few sailors went ashore to buy supplies, and officers made social visits to the city where they watched a bullfight and met victims of Spain's reconcentration policy. Over the next few weeks, as officers visited Havana and locals visited the Maine, U.S.-Spanish relations improved in some ways. According to President McKinley, Maine's visit was a success, creating, quote, a feeling of relief and confidence following the resumption of the long-interrupted friendly intercourse. Towards mid-February, the crew began to look forward to revisiting New Orleans for Mardi Gras. They would not get the chance. Nathaniel Patch of the National Archives will take this story from here. Thank you for your time. Good afternoon. My name is Nathaniel Patch. I am the U.S. Navy Marine Corps and Coast Guard subject matter expert for the National Archives in College Park. The story of the Maine continues. On the evening of February 15, 1898, started out as a quiet night with most of the enlisted crew in their hammocks and the night watch milling about on deck. The column was broken by thunderous explosion as the USS Maine ripped apart from the forward section out. The upper decks folded back on it and the bow came to settle in the harbor. As a surviving crew took stock of their situation, getting the lifeboats ready and hopefully preparing to fight the fire, they noticed the debris and the flotsam and jotsam in the harbor and took notice of the white shirts of the wounded, dead and drowning sailors. As the realization of the explosion was settling in, neighboring ships like the City of Washington and the Spanish cruiser Alphonse the 12th sprang to life to help with the rescue. In the end, 266 out of the 354 officers and sailors perished that night. The Secretary of the Navy, John Long, immediately called for a Corps of Inquiry. The head of this court was Captain William T. Samson. He and his investigators interviewed surviving crew members and officers and those who were at the harbor and observed the explosion as well as taking into account the physical remnants of the Maine itself. They came to the conclusion that the Maine was blown up by a mine placed by people unknown primarily because of a piece of keel at the 18th frame that was bent upwards as being the epicenter of the explosion. As the Samson board was conducting their investigation, the Spanish were conducting theirs. Their conclusions were that the Maine had exploded from the inside because there was no geyser caused by a mine. There are no dead fish in the harbor, which would have been killed by the shockwave. And they also concluded that no person could have placed a mine large enough to sink the Maine without anybody noticing. But in the United States, the yellow journalists had already been fending the flames towards war and the sinking of the Maine and the return of the remains of the sailor. Sailors only fend the flames higher. There was a huge public outcry of free member of the Maine and the papers were now pushing for even stronger for the independence and autonomy of Cuba and the removal of Spain from the Caribbean. The call for war reached a fever pitch between the yellow journalism and the indecisive Samson report. President McKinley found himself in a very precarious position under pressure from Congress and the American public to intervene in Cuba. In April 1898, there was a quick cascade into war from McKinley's ultimatum on April 20th to the Spanish severing diplomatic ties on April 21st. And then eventually declaring war as the United States began their blockade of Cuba. The Spanish-American war lasted 110 days, ending on August 13th. And with the Treaty of Paris signed in December. The sinking of the Maine and the loss of life has cemented itself as being the cause of the Spanish-American war much in the same way that Pearl Harbor is to World War II and the Tonkin Gulf is to Vietnam. In 1911, there was a call for the salvage of the Maine from Havana Harbor. Primarily to get the remains of the few sailors that were still trapped in the hull and to finally get a definitive answer as to what sank the Maine. The US Army Corps of Engineers built a cofferdam around the Maine and they were able to inspect the wreckage. The members of the Bureau of Construction and Repair, like William Ferguson, were able to take extensive photographs of the wreck. But in the end, the investigation came to the same conclusion as the Samson Board, which that an external mine was used to blow up the Maine, again by persons unknown. In 1974, an article about the sinking of the Maine caught the attention of Admiral Hyman Rickover of the Navy's Nuclear Propulsion Division. He and his researchers from the Naval Seasystems Command researched historical records, including Ferguson's photographs. The researchers had extensive knowledge of war damage, particularly from mines and torpedoes from two world wars, and they could quickly assess that the wreckage of the Maine was caused by an internal explosion rather than an external one caused by a mine. They concluded that it was as a result of a coal bunker fire lighting off the nearby magazine sharing the same bulkhead. The legacy of the Maine is that it was an accidental opportunity during a time of a tense situation in Cuba that ignited the Spanish-American War, ushering in the United States as a global power in the 20th century. Hello, my name is Steve Carney and I'm the Command Historian at Arlington National Cemetery. I'm standing in front of Section 24 where 230 crew members who were killed during the explosion of the USS Maine are buried. Today I'm going to talk briefly about the cemetery response to the Maine's explosion and how and why these crew members are buried at Arlington National Cemetery. In the aftermath of the Maine's explosion, due to Spanish policy, burials had to be made within 24 hours. Therefore the initial crew that were recovered in the aftermath of the disaster were quickly buried at the Cologne Cemetery in Havana. Here we see images of several crew members from the initial recovery efforts lying in state at the City Hall in Havana and in the second image we see the funeral procession through the town on the way to Cologne Cemetery on February 17th of 1898. During the remainder of the month of February a total of 166 crew member remains were located and interred at the Cologne Cemetery. This photo taken later in 1898 shows the burial plot for the Maine crew. The cascaded remains were buried in several grave sites around this cross which read victims of the Maine. Beginning in March additional remains that were recovered were sent to Key West Florida rather than being interred in Havana. Captain Charles Sigsby had complained earlier to the American Secretary of the Navy about the treatment of American remains that were recovered in mid February but he did not have the resources to move those remains to the U.S. for burial. As a result however by March any additional remains that were located were sent for burial at the Key West Cemetery. This film shows the funeral procession and Navy escort of nine crew members through the town of Key West on March 27th. All of the remains recovered after the end of February of 1898 were interred at the Key West Cemetery. However all operations or searches for additional crew members remains were suspended at the beginning of April. In total 24 crew members were recovered in March of 1898 and were buried at Key West. In the cemetery two of those 24 were known and are buried in individual grave sites. The remainder were all unknown. In these photos we see one of the early burials at the cemetery and what the plot ended up looking like in about 1901 which included all of the grave sites as well as a memorial that was erected in honor of the Maine victims. After the peace treaty with Spain went into effect on April 11th 1899 the United States government began to repatriate service members who fell overseas during the conflict to the United States at the government's expense at no cost to the families. One of the reasons for this is another piece of Spanish policy was that no disinterference could be made for a certain number of years after a burial. So now that Spain no longer administered Cuba or the Philippines that was no longer a concern. One of the early repatriations that occurred was of the original 166 crew members who had been interred in the clone cemetery during February of 1898. In total 165 of those 166 crew members were brought to Arlington National Cemetery for burial on December 28th of 1899 in what we at the time was called the Maine section but of course today we call section 24. Disinterments were completed in the clone cemetery on December 17th of 1899 and the 151 caskets that were disinterred were sent towards Arlington. They arrived on December 27th and were guarded overnight while the funeral service and burials were conducted then on December 28th. This is an image of our December 1899 monthly report on burials at ANC and you can see that in total 165 Maine victims were buried here that month. 63 were known and 102 were unknown. Of note it's also interesting to see that at the time there were 17,720 individuals interred at the cemetery. In order to commemorate the establishment of the Maine section and the 165 crew members that were interred there an early memorial comprised of an anchor and two captured Spanish mortars was dedicated. During the late 19th and early 20th century it was very common at ANC for a memorial to be dedicated when a new burial section was created. That however is not the end of the story of the burials at ANC. During the salvage operations of the Maine which we'll hear about in a later presentation the remains of an additional 65 crew members were recovered throughout 1911 and were kept under American guard at the fortress of La Cabana in Havana. After making preparations the cascaded remains were brought to the pier in Havana on March 16th of 1912 and were sent to the Washington Navy yard where they arrived on March 23rd of 1912. Here we see images of the procession of the cascaded remains to the pier in Havana and then the disembarking off of the USS Birmingham at the Washington Navy yard. After arriving at the Navy yard a funeral procession snaked through Washington DC and ultimately to ANC. Along the way a funeral service was held near the state war and Navy department building which today is the site of the Eisenhower executive office building. After arriving at ANC the final 65 service members of the Maine's crew were laid to rest and joined their 165 shipmates who had been buried in 1899. In this photo we see the preparation of those grave sites in section 24 and here is a modern view of section 24 today with all 230 crew members interred there. This daily burial log from ANC on March 23rd of 1912 shows the burial of the 65 remains in a total of 34 cascades. Arlington offers a unique perspective on the Spanish-American War. There really are no other sites in the United States that tell as comprehensive of a story as we do here. Not only are the USS Maine crew members interred here but also soldiers, sailors, marines and nurses from the conflict are buried nearby. In addition to those grave sites we also are a major site of commemoration and memorialization of the war. We have five individual memorials here dedicated to the conflict. Two to the USS Maine, one to the war itself, one to the Rough Riders and one to the Spanish-American War nurses. You can learn about all these connections between ANC and the conflict through our education program which is available at education.arlingtoncemetery.mil. Hello ladies and gentlemen my name is Lynn Rowe. I am a reference archivist with the Old Navy Maritime Team at the National Archives at Washington DC. Today I will be talking to you about the sinking of the USS Maine records at the National Archives in Washington DC and providing you with just a few examples of the records we house here at our research facility. Overall our records consist of documents relating to the USS Maine and its design, the events before and after the explosion, the recovery efforts for both men and ship, the Navy's investigation of the incident and records relating to the implementation of memorials. Our first set of examples can be found in record group 24 records of the Bureau of Naval Personnel. In entry 118 law books of US Navy ships we see records which can provide researchers with the logistical day-to-day operation of a ship. Records are arranged alphabetically according to ship's name, home number, or station in there under chronologically. While law books of the USS Maine stop at the end of 1897 researchers can instead look at the records of vessels used during the rescue recovery and salvage of the USS Maine. Entry 98 correspondence relating to naval personnel listed in the sinking of the Maine records are arranged alphabetically by person's name. Within the series there are folders for individual men who are lost during the explosion. These folders hold letters of condolences and offers a relief money to surviving family members. There is information relating to next of kin and letters from family members thanking relief societies. These letters often provide descriptions of family relationship in their hardships following the Maine's explosion. Researchers will also find many family letters to and from foreign countries. Entry 88 and 89 general correspondence these records are arranged chronologically in there under by file number. As you can see these two series will overlap in dates. Both files relate to casualty lists, requests for such lists, memorials, services, plaques, monuments, and awards. Next we have record group 45 naval records collections of the office of naval records and libraries. Entry 502 subject files are among the most utilized and accessible records relating to old navy records here in DC. These records are arranged by subject based on an alphabetical classification scheme developed by the office of naval records and libraries. Examples are included in this slide. Entry 60 cipher messages received and translated are arranged chronologically. The majority of messages were sent by officers in command of squadrons and or vessels stationed in the South Atlantic Caribbean and Pacific stadiums. Most of the messages were received directly by the secretary's office and other records were received by the Bureau of Navigation and forwarded to the secretary. Entry 517 area file of the naval records collection are arranged by geographical area in there under chronologically. Records have been reformatted in microfilm publication M625. These records consist of letters, telegrams, radio messages and maps removed or copied from the office of secretary of the navy bureau of navigation, office of naval intelligence and other naval departments. Next we have record group 125 records of the navy judge advocate general. Entry 30 records of the proceedings of court of inquiry, board of investigation, and board of inquest. Records are arranged by case file number. The USS main case file number 4950 takes up two boxes. The first box has records relating to the testimonial of survivors, witnesses, and those who assisted with the recovery of the ship. The second part of the box consists of conclusions of the investigation. The second box has photos of the vessels remains an example of one of the photos is included in this slide. As we mentioned before these were just a few examples of the records relating to the USS main. Here are some additional record groups that also relate to the ship and its and its explosion. For more information relating to our records researchers can contact us at archivesonereferenceatnara.gov. This concludes my presentation. Thank you for your time and your attention. Hello my name is David line Bart. I work in research services at the national archives. It gives me great pleasure to talk to you about department of state records relating to the USS main. The records on the main fall into three different iterations of the department central files from the late 19th century to the 1930s. Next slide please. One of those covers the years 1783 to 1906. In 1898 because Cuba was a colony of Spain the highest ranking American there was consul general Fichu Lee in Havana. Lee was the nephew of Robert E. Lee and a former Confederate general himself. Among Lee's dispatches or reports from Havana we find his account of the explosion and immediate follow-up. Those begin with his telegram announcing the explosion and subsequent reports deal with the recovery and burial of the bodies and initial planning on how to deal with the wreckage. His reporting ends fairly soon as the consulate general closed with the advent of war with Spain. Upon his return to the United States Lee became one of four former Confederate generals who became major generals of U.S. volunteers during the war although he saw no action himself. In other series of records from this time period are the messages of condolence from other countries. Those messages were transmitted to the U.S. either through American diplomatic and consular officials or by foreign diplomatic officials in the United States. Next slide please. The records of the main continue in the department's numerical file which dates from the years 1906 to 1910. Within that large set of records file 11893 deals with the subject of the wrecks of the Spanish warships on the Cuban coast and the USS Maine. Among the issues discussed in the file are what to do with the wrecks and who owns them. Next slide please. The department state adopted a new filing system in 1910 the central decimal file. Within those records there are two different files on the subject of the Maine. One file 811.304 M28 is the continuation of numerical file 11893 in the later period. A second altogether new file 837.413 M28 is about the USS Maine memorial in Cuba. In later years that file includes documentation on the annual ceremonies commemorating the sinking. Next slide please. Some of the records I've discussed are available online. All of the central file records dating to 1906 can be viewed through various series in the National Archives catalog. This includes lease dispatches and the condolence messages as well as the extensive diplomatic record relating to the Spanish-American war. Numerical file 11893 is online too. Sadly the central decimal file records on the Maine are not available online. The series of foreign relations in the United States the official documentary history of U.S. foreign policy prepared and issued by the department state includes a selection of documents from all three time periods and is available online. URLs for the online resources and foreign relations are noted on this slide. I hope you found this information useful. Thank you for your attention. Hello my name is Ivor Moloma. I work as an underwater archaeologist at the underwater archaeology branch of the naval history heritage command. Today I'm talking about the ultimate fate of the Maine. So we're going to cover its sinking. So I'm going to be talking about its recovery efforts where it ultimately ended up and some of the memorialization that happened after it was raised. So just a quick timeline as we've already covered the Maine sank in on the 15th of February 1898. On the 10th of December 1898 the Spanish American War ends and the Maine remains in Benna Harbor. It wasn't until the 9th of May 1910 that U.S. Congress authorized funds totaling at the time about 650,000 dollars in total for the recovery of Maine. In June the cofferdam was completed and then finally in March of 1912 the Maine was resunk and it was ultimately rediscovered about 88 years later. So as part of the recovery efforts it remained in Benna Harbor after the 1898 war. It was a clear shipping hazard. There was risk of shoaling because sand and silt and other sediments were collecting on the wreck and it would create a shoal that would inhibit shipping in the harbor. It was also protruding above the water so ships couldn't simply sail over it for risk of damaging their hulls. And then finally Congress was under pressure from a number of patriotic groups including veterans of the war and other groups and interested parties to raise the Maine for the collection of souvenirs. This also went hand in hand with the hopeful recovery of about 70 bodies that still remained on board the Maine that had not been recovered after its initial sinking. So finally on the 13th of October 1911 following a long logistical process of getting equipment down to Havana, renting equipment on boats from the Cuba government, the copper dam was started. On the 7th of June it was completed. You can see here at the bottom picture that shows a picture probably around July or August of the copper dam pictures. You see the kind of cylinders that I'll talk about a little bit later but note the boats and the pumping stations kind of surrounding the copper dam that were all essential to completing this project. For those that don't know a copper dam is essentially you build a dam in the middle of some water and then pump it out so that the dam keeps the water out and you can remove the water from within the dam. As you can see that's what's happening here that allows then essentially terrestrial or land access to the shipwreck itself on the bottom. So that's what's happening here. Finally in 1911 after a lot of effort the stern section which was the most intact of the main is refloated. This involved the creation of a concrete and wooden plug effectively which helped to reseal the main. As a fun side note the engines on board the main despite having been underwater for almost 14 years at that point fired up again and they were able to use it to transport the main and drain some of the last remaining water out of the main. So I'm sure the manufacturer was thrilled to hear that at the time. Now as a final note on this slide the picture in the top right hand side here is what the main looked like following the war in 1898. As you can see it's a clear shipping hazard it sticks out there's we have documents here of letters to US Navy personnel requesting permission to dynamite the remains of the main as soon as almost November 1898. So at that point they were already thinking about clearing the harbor and clearing the debris out of the way. At that point the Navy said no for the clear reason that there is still UXO on board and if dynamite is applied we don't know what's going to happen there. And then finally the the ultimate reason as well was that there was still remains of sailors on board that they didn't want to disturb in that way. So quick note on the cofferdam you see two images here on the left hand side this one's a little bit later so the previous image was in in August this is probably a little later say in late August or early September judging by the water level you can see some of the remains of the main getting exposed in the fore and middle ground of the photo. Again note that there's cranes and other boats surrounding the cofferdam to assist in this project but the cofferdam itself as you can kind of tell here was constructed of 20 steel cylinders that were sunk about 38 feet into the harbor which meant that they sat in or on top of the harbor bottom they're each 50 feet wide and they would be filled with gravel and clay. That in itself delayed the construction of the cofferdam as it was thought that they could simply pull up clay and gravel and sediment from the bottom of Havana Harbor and fill the cylinders with that material. Unfortunately that proved too much for the pumping equipment at the time and replacement pumps would have cost $1,800 a day to be rented which was a prohibitive cost so they ended up pumping it in a different way but simply filling it with clay that came in through lump so it took much longer to fill the drums and then much slower to fill the or empty the cofferdam of water afterwards as well. Ultimately as the water level inside the dam decreases the water pressure on the outside of the drums increases it was calculated at the time that there was probably about 4,000 pounds of water pressure per drum being enacted on there as the water level was decreased to the 38 feet below. They would have stopped at about five feet below the sea level there to check for any leaks none were found at the time or no serious leaks were found at the time so they were able to patch anything but when they resumed pumping the increased pressure as they lowered the water inside increased to such a degree that significant leaking occurred and they had to slowly pump the water away at a rate of less than one foot per hour with frequent stops to patch leaks and reinforce the material. As the water got even lower it was realized that extra bracing in this case it would have been wooden bracing was required to keep the steel drums in place and from collapsing on each other so they would have put wooden beams in between some of the steel drums to add that extra bracing to counter the increasing water pressure. At that point it was thought that they might not be able to recover the wreckage and the wreckage was examined in that 1911 examination that was already covered earlier. It should also be noted that this was an Army Corps of Engineers project with Navy assistance so several Navy engineers were involved with it. The investigation did also involve ship architects hired or selected by the Navy to have a good view of the wreckage and come to the best possible conclusion. The picture on the bottom here is near the completion of the draining of the copper dam and it shows the starboard side of the main which is its most intact. You can tell that it's still fairly intact here it's probably towards the stern section where you can see two sailors in the middle of the photo and then towards the bottom right of the photo simply standing on the wreckage showing that there is still a fair amount of structural integrity in that part of the wreck. However as you would have moved forward to the bow that wreckage would not have been structurally integral and that was actually cut away using porches by the Army Corps of Engineers team. Finally it is raised in October of 1911 and it is decided that it needs to be re-sunk or re-deposited somewhere else. This occurs ultimately on the 12th of March 1912 when the main was raised using the pumps that were on board. It was also plugged and prepared for sinking in various ways. One of those was actually they had to cut away parts of the hull structure to counter the pressure of suction from the mud of the bottom and those hulls were then plugged with wooden plugs which they then removed to re-sink or re-deposit the main later. So on the 12th of March the main was pulled out of Havana Harbor. They were hoping to pull it out a little bit further but being as they are pulling a literal wreck that is counterbalanced in various ways it was tough going and at four miles they decided to sink it there. It was escorted by the US Navy ships North Carolina and Birmingham which provided a 21 gun salute as the main sunk to the bottom of Cuban waters. At the time it was sunk in what was measured to be 100 fathoms or between 3,600 and 3,700 feet of sea water so well out of the way of any potential navigational hazards for the time. The picture on the right here shows the last image of the main with an ensign flying as it is re-sunk about four miles from Havana. It is then ultimately rediscovered in October of 2000 by a team from the University of South Florida that partnered with an underwater exploration team, ABC, and partnered with the Cuban government to test some underwater exploration equipment. As they were scanning the seafloor they ran across the main which was unmistakable due to its clear signal or clear structure. It would literally look like a ship that had been caught off which was the case here. It also had a debris field of coal and then associated boiler with it and at that point it was actually discovered about a mile east of where it was originally sunk. So the theory is that it was sunk in the correct position but in that 3,700 feet of seawater it could have drifted significantly and ultimately been deposited about a mile away from its original sinking location. So we already spoke a little bit about the motivations for the recovery of the main which included the shipping hazard and the recovery of the 70 bodies on board which were all recovered. Only one was identified, the rest were then buried in Arlington. But another motivation to raise the main was for patriotic groups to acquire souvenirs. Now this isn't a practice we really do anymore but it was widespread and prevalent at the time to have souvenirs like this. You can see two here that are examples of what we have from the USS Main in the Washington Navy Yard. It's on the left here is the cover of a capstan that is located in the rare book room of the library and on the right here is a spare propeller blade from the USS Main on display in the gun yard that we have here at the Washington Navy Yard. Two of the other notable examples for memorialization of the main are the four mast that sits in the US Naval Academy in Annapolis which is pictured on the left here and the main mast of the main that is pictured on the right here which is located at the main monument in Arlington. So those are two of the principal ones. Other examples include several six pounder guns that were recovered. One sits in Bangor Main at a monument, another sits in New York, somewhere in the state as a monument and several others are spread out as well. Some souvenirs were recovered, some shells are documented to have been recovered and become part of memorials around the country. A museum in Maine actually has a porthole cover along with several other artifacts from the ship and then ultimately some bronze plaques were also printed by the Navy independently to confirm that some of these items or memorials were of and for the Maine and those became part of that kind of memorialization effort as well. So you can see here they're in fairly good shape they've been maintained fairly well but these masks and everything is what is left of the Maine ultimately and is where you could visit a piece of history so choose. Thank you to all of our speakers and thank you for joining us for today's presentation on the documentary history related to the USS Maine jointly sponsored by Arlington National Cemetery, the National Archives and Records Administration and the US Naval History and Heritage Command. We will now move on to the question and answer portion of today's event. I'm Megan Guthorn and I will serve as your moderator today. If you have a question for our speakers please add it to the chat box. We will start with a question for Nate. Was the USS Maine the first all-steel warship in the US Navy to be sunk in such a violent manner? I think so. There doesn't seem to be any predecessor certainly during the American Civil War there were any number of monitors and iron clad ships that were destroyed but they were not totally made from metal and they were not certainly built and constructed in the same way that the Maine and the Texas were so this was an unusual event and we would not have any basis of comparison until the First World War. Thank you. I think the next question is for John. Could you tell us a little bit about what else is happening to commemorate the Maine today? Of course, I'm glad to. Thank you for the question. So the biggest single event that's going on is well it's already happened. It took place at the Maine Memorial Mast in Arlington and I think Dr. Kearney showed us some nice pictures of that. This morning Rear Admiral Cox of the Naval History and Heritage Command and Mr. Boskamp Bosenko of the National Archives as well as a band and some other guests later Reef gave a speech as well at that. So that was the main thing. The other thing is Naval History and Heritage Command we have published a number of articles on our blog The Sextant on causes of the Maine's explosion and some of the people killed and then we also have done a update to the the dictionary of American fighting ships. This is a resource that the Navy History Command has online to look for danfs or dictionary of American fighting ships and that gives official ship histories of all ships in Lacy. Our one of the Maine was quite old so we've expanded that out to be a lot longer and more helpful to modern researchers. So that's the main things. Thanks. Steve, did you want to elaborate on anything else that the cemetery is involved in? Sure, thanks Meg. First on behalf of our executive director at the office of Army Cemetery and Army National Military Cemetery Miss Karen Durham Aguilera as well as our superintendent Mr. Ray Alexander. We thank everybody for joining us today for this webinar. The one piece that Arlington is going to really continue to do throughout this 125th anniversary of the Spanish-American War is we have a really outstanding education module that's focused on the conflict. So certainly I would encourage anyone who is interested in in employing those kinds of materials in a classroom you know as an educator for for students or for student projects or just someone who's interested in in visiting the cemetery either in person or virtually to take a look at those materials as well as the related walking tours because they they all really are focused on on this 125th anniversary of of the conflict and the Maine's destruction. Thank you. I think the next one is probably also best answered by John. John was the USS Maine built to fight and how did it compare to vessels of possible opponents including those from Latin American navies? Yeah, good question. So I think as I mentioned in my talk this is a time of transition and a time of kind of expansion for the US Navy. When the Maine is launched everything else well when Maine and Texas are launched everything else the Navy is you know cruisers or smaller ships. In fact the first steel ships the Navy launched or only launched a couple of years before the the Maine they're the the so-called ABCD cruiser named Atlanta Boston and Chicago I think. Anyway so Maine though is different it is armored it is slower has larger guns so you know it absolutely is intended as a as a warship. It is particularly so because it is built in large part as a response to I don't speak Portuguese so sorry I apologize if that's the Rochello I think which is a Brazilian warship built in the United Kingdom but bought by and then deployed by the Great Britain. In fact when Rochello is bought which I believe is in 1883 sailors the US sailors at the time realized you know if the entire US Navy went against the Rochello we'd all be killed we'd all die from this thing. So the Maine is definitely a response that actually there are a lot of the design of the Maine is similar to that ship as well. Now as far as comparisons to when the ship is actually done it takes forever to make for Maine to be completed so much so that by the time the Maine is actually commissioned we have the Indiana class in the United States Navy that is close to that is getting close to being done it's definitely in the yards by that point. Maine's about 6,000 tons, Indiana's over 10,000, they're the much larger things and so even by the American Navy Maine's almost obsolete by the time it's launched not quite but it's getting there. Also that's also true for the British Navy the British Navy of course is the golden standard at the time the Maine was launched from the from the same time as the Centurion and renowned classes both of which are getting on towards like 11,000 tons larger guns faster better armor so even with Maine is designed as a fighting ship it's likely opponents would have been considerably more powerful as that so actually that's why Maine is designated a second class battleship rather than a true first class one that's supposed to go against the real battleships there. Thanks John. I think the next one I'm going to pass around several of you and we'll start with Nate. Nate can you share what your favorite book on the USS Maine and the Spanish-American War is? Well the one that I like is by David Trask which is called The War with Spain. It's a very detailed book on the causes of the Spanish-American War as well as the actual war itself. David Trask is a naval historian and he's written one other major work on World War I so. Thanks Steve same question. So I would say that unfortunately you know there there really isn't a definitive work certainly on the the USS Maine so I certainly would be an advocate for it's a good line of future research I think there's a a lot of gaps holes to be filled in. John your thoughts? Yeah I would absolutely agree with Dr. Carney here that the definitive work on Maine is yet to be written. Said Admiral Rickover's book that discusses the true cause of the destruction written in the 70s and it's got a solid you know 60 page something like that history of the Maine and then a good analysis of destruction. Also um oh what's his name sorry um it blows ship a ship to remember um no sorry Edward Weems excuse me the fate of the Maine uh it's published in the 50s but he's a solid historian and and actually uses good sources. There's been a number of kind of more popular histories in recent years that aren't spectacular um so yeah I would go with Weems as far as an actual academic one although again it is dated or or Rickover as far as the Spanish-American War um Ivan Musican's book Empire by Default is the best one I've found it's quite good. Thanks um actually I have a related question about this for Lynn um Lynn can you speak to what records we have at the National Archives in DC relating to the Maine board um I believe that's referenced in Rickover's book um how the battleship Maine was destroyed. Oh yes um there was reference to the Maine board um during the ship's recovery the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers was called in to assist with the racing of the vessel. The board refers to a group of officers appointed by Brigadier General William Bixby. Um the records for those will be found in record group 77 records of the office of the chief engineer um and there are two boxes in entry 103 um that speaks about the recovery of the vessel the discoveries of the bodies um so that would be the main series I would recommend. There is also which is not necessarily referring to Rickover's um board but there is also the board of inspections and surveys which also covers um a good portion of the recovery and that can also be found in entry 242 um in record groups 38. Fantastic I hope folks have an opportunity to check those out um so the next question I'm not sure who to toss to but I'm going to guess either Steve or John um so the question is can the USS Olympia still on display be considered a sister ship of the USS Maine? Steve's shaking his head no so so Olympia is is not a sister ship of the Maine so obviously they're built within a couple years of each other um Olympia is a cruiser and so it's um it's not nearly as armored um I think it's actually I think it's about the same size maybe a little bigger actually um you know it's it's a cruiser rather than a battleship um so faster, longer, less armor that's that's it so sorry. No that's great and while I have you um do you know the answer who was the manufacturer of the engines and who retired after almost 14 years that retired after almost 14 years? So first up the answer is on the Dan F's the Diction of American Fighting Ships uh website webpage so you can look it up there but no it is um NF Palmer Junior and Company so those are uh triple expansion engines that and that relates kind of how the heat uh that refers to how the heat kind of turns the turbines there are multiple kind of turbines that goes as the the steam goes out or whatever uh I'm not an engineer I'm a historian but um so it's uh engines of navy design built by NF Palmer and Company in the Quin yard ironworks in New York so near built navy designed and at the time they're capable of about 9000 horsepower uh there so that's that's what I know. Great thanks John um it does look like we're coming up at the end of our time today so I want to thank everybody um both our panelists and everybody who's joined us for this virtual presentation on behalf of the panel Arlington National Cemetery the National Archives and Records Administration and the U.S. Naval History and Heritage Command we appreciate your interest in America's documentary history and we hope you enjoy it you join us again thank you and have a wonderful afternoon.


11 o'clock rock, I'm Jay Fidel. This is ThinkTech. Welcome to Creative Contributions here on a given Friday. Today we'll talk about a manuscript that defines a man I know and a notable period in American history which we should all know about. He and it, they are about the Piscorps. That means Peace Corps, the way you pronounce it in India in the 1960s. Right about the time when the Vietnam War was happening, with all those destructive implications, now the war was destructive, the Piscorps was just the opposite. When I graduated from NYU Law School in 1965, first I went into the graduate program there in that school, which was not protected from the draft. When they came for me, I answered with my own move, go into the service that saves lives, the Coast Guard. I could have done, I could have gone into the Peace Corps just as easily I think, and some of my friends I recall won, his name was Matt Seymour, I don't know if Peter knows him. He was my co-graduate counselor at the dormitory at NYU. I was dazzled with his move, but I love the idea that he went and today all I have is the memory of him in his 20s along with me and his name Matt Seymour. Now Peter Adler answered the call by going into the Peace Corps and it certainly changed him. More than that, he decided to write it up and we're here today to talk about his wonderful heart-rending lessons and experiences in living the life of the most exciting global adventure that came out of John Kennedy and the optimism of the early 1960s and global optimism that we can look at today. That our generation at the time could ever have, that was the time. Peter was at the core of it, incredibly lucky to be there in the mainstream of those experiences and we are incredibly lucky to be able to talk with him and soon enough to have the benefit of his recollections and stories and his manuscript and book about the experiences that defined his life and certainly have enlightened and do enlighten ours. Welcome to the show Peter Adler. Thank you, Jay. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Let's get started. Yeah. Tell us the story of how you got involved in the Peace Corps in 1966. Right. It's late 1966. I've graduated from college. I have a BA in history. I'm not clear about what I want to do, but I knew I also did not want to fight in that war. Not, I'm not against all wars, but that war, the Vietnam conflict, which is our era, which most people think could be like the war of the Turks and the Hungarians in 1500 these days. You weren't a wild activist or anything. You said I'm mildly. I protested and I was involved in that and active in that. But graduating, I wanted to do something different. The draft board was after me. I wound up applying for the Peace Corps. Didn't think I'd get in, got in and got a deferral for the time that I was in the Peace Corps. As soon as I finished, they came right after me again. Oh, no, of course. How unfair. Oh, gee, it was what it was. It was a service and they came for you. Oh, yeah, yeah. Gee so anyway, so talk about training and acclimation and immersion, if you will. Okay, so it's 1966, late 1966. I'm invited to participate in this training program for India in a place that I'd never heard of called Maharashtra State, which is between, this is where Bombay is the main city. And we were trained, going to be trained in construction and public works. I was a history major. I can do that. I can do that. If Jake can be a lawyer, I can do that. So when in the training, we spent a couple weeks in Milwaukee at a hotel and then took a train down to Zapata, Texas, which is right on the near Laredo on the on the Tex-Max border. And we spent two and a half months down there with our language instructors. We built our own, we were being taught construction skills, built these hovels, and got our instruction, and then went through the process of selection, had lots of interviews. Some, many of us got deselected at that point. And about 50 started in the program, 24, 25 actually made it through there. Exclusive. It was high expectations, high requirements. Yeah, but the basis of it, it was mysterious to all of us. It was like the end of it was the night of the long knives. Nobody understood exactly why. Yeah. So then we packed off to India in January of 1967 and spent the next two years in. I was in a village of about 7,000 people, kind of a county seat, if you will, that is now a commercial center of 35,000. I was back there a few years ago. What was the name of the village? KED, KED, H-E-D, KED. It was west of Mumbai? Well, it was actually between Mumbai and Goa. Okay, Goa is on the water? Yeah, it was close to the coast, about 10 miles from the ocean. You know, India is a lot different today than it was then. What was India like then?  There's still massive poverty there. There's probably more cell phones than toilets in India, but it's changed. And there's a very quick rising middle class. It's overshadowing caste structure, which was very, you know, old and antique. But people are on the move. This is a country on the move if they can overcome their corruption. Well, you gave us some photos. Let's look at a slight photo show over here. We have a few photos sort of to find the times. That's the picture of the cover sheet of your book, India 40 and The Circle of Demons. It is a manuscript by Peter S. Adler. It is a manuscript of 363 pages. All very interesting, by the way. Talk about the photos. Go to the net. Yeah, so this is the, there's kind of two pieces. There's the physical journey. What did we do? So the context, the war in Vietnam, I had a lot of friends that had been drafted. Some were being killed. Many were being wounded. I was clear that that's, if I could avoid it, I wanted to do it, but I wanted to do national service. I wanted to do something. 50 of us invited to train. That's a photo of the actual site we were in, this ranch, God forsaken ranch on the border. 24 of us started in January 1967 and 12, and we called ourselves the dirty dozen who actually finished.  You remember them? I do. We're still close. We're still alive. No, a few have passed away, but we get together at least once every year, year and a half. We just got together actually to commemorate the passing of one of our colleagues. You know, I judged from the book and the prologue and the epilogue and all that that this has to find your life. And I think I'm right no matter what you say. The question is whether it defined the other, the lives of the other 11 people than your dirty dozen. It was a very significant moment for all of us. All of us have done many other things. I mean, we have attorneys and we have executives and we have all kinds of people who've done a lot of other things. But this was one of those fork in the road experiences when you look back. You couldn't see it while you were there, but this is a moment when we're all going down a fork that becomes really important in hindsight. Yeah. Historical. Yes. Not only for you, but for the country. Because you were an extension of John Kennedy, John F. Kennedy. That's right. And, you know, perhaps to our generation, it was probably the greatest thing that he could do for us to give us this opportunity. Unfortunately, it went away. And that's another story we'll talk about later. But, you know, you mentioned an out of journey and an inner journey. Let's talk about the out of journey first. What was it for you? So that's the physical part of going to a new culture, having grown up in the bubble of American culture in Chicago, South Side of Chicago, and all of a sudden going out into a world that was completely new, a culture that was completely new. This wasn't culture shock. This was life shock. This is learning about death, disease, hunger, poverty. It wasn't all pretty. It wasn't all romantic. No, it wasn't. But you also get accustomed to it. And you have to work with it. And you have to get a few things done as best you can. Were you scared? Were you afraid?   I mean, we're just living it. You're all in your early 20s. Yes. We're all 20, 21, 22, and having a great adventure on one hand and the other trying also to get a few things done in a place that was hard to work in. How did you spend your time? You know, we started out attached to a kind of a public works program. The idea of which was to take off-season agricultural labor, put them to work on a public works project. And we were supposed to, you know, design and build projects. And we did. We did school construction, some market roads, little wells and community health centers. But the program was a bust, just to be clear. The program was a bust. So we all wound up also doing other things. So I wound up also raising chickens. And a kid from Chicago raising chickens. Why not? Yeah, why not? Talk about broadening your- Yeah. And killing rats. We killed lots of rats. Kill rats, you could. Yes, you could. So we wound up doing things. And then we were in a very heavy monsoon area. So 300 inches of rain in three months, four months. Most work stops. Most work stops. What do you do with your time then? Read a lot of books. I got the education that I'd missed in college. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You said the program failed. What exactly was the program? What are you supposed to bring in a program like that? What was your value added to the people in the village? Why did it not work? The theory of it was that we were to be attached to this rural manpower program is what was called. This, again, grabbing offices and agricultural labor, paying them a wage, putting them to work on building roads and schools and community centers. And the program was riddled with corruption from the top to the bottom. In all the Indian village. Yes. In the whole program nationally. And so in the Peace Corps program? Not ours. I mean, our program, we were simply attached to it as part of a political deal that had a mirror image. Indian program. The Indian program was a problem. Okay, got it.  And I was working for a very skilled engineer who became one of my closest friends. And he was underneath the political guys. And he was actually one of our guardians. He kept a peripheral eye on us, made sure we didn't screw up too badly. But the program itself was a complete bust. I mean, there was so much corruption. So one of the things we did was we raised some independent money to build schools, and we became the project managers. And they couldn't get their hands on it. But they loved it. They loved it. People, these little rural villages needed schools. And they needed you. Yeah. So in the building of the school, you brought them certain skills they didn't have. That's right. A lot of project management, project organization. And most of all, we brought some funding that we wrangled out of the United States. So interesting. Some time to time, we do a Loha medical mission. And they do these medical missions in Nepal and other places, and they run into exactly the same thing. They're high-minded. You know, they're totally common good. And yet they find that there's a mirror image organization that is corrupt and slows it all down. That's right. That's exactly it. And maybe in a certain sense, this happened elsewhere. You spoke in your book about the Peace Corps in Africa. I'll bet the same thing happened there. A lot of places. Maybe it was a failure in the original concept, not to be able to deal with corruption at a local level. So the Peace Corps had, you know, from the Kennedy point of view and Hubert Humphrey and Sergeant Shriver, the architects of it, they said, we wanted to do several things. We wanted to send young people abroad and good people who could do things and show people that we weren't just warriors in Vietnam and fighting a war. So we wanted to send people there to learn about their culture and participate in it. We wanted them to learn about us, the human exchange part. And those were core to the mission. And that was more important than building the school, as a matter of fact. That's right. So, you know, I mentioned I was just talking to the director of the Peace Corps recently and she said, yeah, so what? The fish died in your fish pond. Who cares? You did look at the great things you did. I mean, you know, I mean that we all have those failure experiences. We also have successes and that's all part of growing up too, isn't it? Yes it is.  Nothing could be finer. We're going to take a short break, Peter. We come back and we'll talk about some of the, you know, more challenging things that happened while you were over there, some of the trouble you had and how you dealt with it. As Peter Adler, he is defined by his experience in the Peace Corps between 1967 and 68. And so when you look at him and shake his hand and say hi, always think of that.  We'll be right back. Aloha. My name is Justine Espiritu and I co-host Hawaii Farmers Series with Matthew Johnson of Oahu Fresh. We talk about Hawaii's local farmers and their supporters. In order to have a vibrant and sustainable local food system, farmers are always the foundation, but there's so many other people involved in the community that help support those farmers. So we bring those folks onto our show every Thursday at 4 p.m. We get their backstory, their history, find out a little more about them, and we find out why they love what they do and their perspective and their advice on how we can continue to have a dynamic and vibrant and sustainable local food system. So we, again, we broadcast live every Thursday at 4 p.m. And you can also catch us on ThinkText's YouTube channel as well as Alelo54. So we hope you tune in and join us. We're back. We're live with Peter Adler, a member of the Peace Corps in 1967 and 8, and a person who can tell us how it was like, what it was like in those days. It wasn't all healthy and wasn't. I mean, there were problems in those days.  You also had trouble in India, you know, drugs. You had mental issues. You had some suicides going on there. Can you talk about the dark side for a minute? So we were a hard luck group, which is one of the things I wanted to write about because Peace Corps, everything's kind of noble and vaunted it up on a stage. And this was a very hard luck group. We had huge amounts of loss. One guy did commit suicide and we still get together in my group and we scratch our heads, what did happen? We had several guys who went home on drug overdoses or drug use. Everybody had a lot of sickness. I mean, we were, you know, from Chicago and New York and California and all of a sudden you're in what is basically a petri dish. And so we all had various germs and bugs and worms. Peace Corps doctors were very good. They tried to take care of us. One guy in our group, and there's a story about him, came down with an extraordinarily virulent hepatitis. His liver completely stopped functioning. He was expatriated to the Good Ship Hope on off-sea land. The medical ship. First complete blood transfusion, written up in time mazes. So there are individual stories about what happened. It was hard. There were hard moments, but there was also these kind of great joyous moments in your community with people. That takes us to the inner journey that you talked about. Can you talk about that for a minute? I can, yeah. So this book, you have to remember, this is both memoir and a little bit of a creative nonfiction. I've embellished some things and at the end I own up to what I've embellished. You noticed that? I thought that was very good of you. Yeah, I wanted to say, well... We have mostly nonfiction here, but Peter says in the book, well, in order to make it more readable, I had to add some stuff that I was a composite.  Well, yeah. So I mean, I wanted to tell a good story. I mean, I wanted to also tell a pretty good story in this thing. So yeah, the inner journey was really understanding, not so much of... I came to understand not just Indian culture, but I really learned about how American I was and I wasn't aware of it. We think, you know, culture, we just adapt to everybody else or they adapt to us and I realized, oh no, no, that's not how this world works. I also went there full of dualisms. There's right and wrong. There's good and bad. There's a good war. There are bad wars. And that changed me. The Indian experience changed me to think of it much more nuanced and the shades of gray, which is important. As a mediator, I live in that world too. Yeah, that's true. I live in that world. And maybe that's one of the reasons you're a good mediator, that you learned about the shades of gray. It is. And it's about that. But that's the 22-year-old transition from, I know what's right and wrong, to, well, I'm not so sure about that and I better explore this. It's more nuanced than I thought. Yeah. That's a wonderful lesson for a young person to have. And I can just say in the book, one of the things I've done is created these dialogues, imaginary dialogues, with one of the main gods from India, Shiva. And I didn't grow up with lots of relatives. Love with the snakes. Yeah, he's the one you see in dancing, doing the cosmic dance, and he's going to... Many arms. He's a god of destruction. I mean, he brings the world, destroys it so a new world can be born every seven bazillion years.  You don't understand this. You don't understand that. And you don't even understand about women. You don't understand about love. What's wrong with you? So there's these dialogues that... Can you read some of your stuff? Yeah, yeah, I'll read you one. And this is actually, in the chapter, this is the story of how I met my wife. And it's a dialogue. And it started actually first with a friend telling me about the meaning of that Nataraja, the dancing Shiva. And then he tells me that... You go to one of the pictures. Yeah, let's have a picture of Shiva. Yeah, I do. I have a picture there, and one of the steps. Okay, the inner journey. Yeah, and if you see on that Nataraja there, he's got one foot on this dwarf. And the dwarf is called Atsmara. And the dwarf is ignorance. And Shiva is all about bringing enlightenment. There are many things. It's not just destruction. He does that too. But so this is ignorance. So this is about learning a little bit about love and finding... Meeting my wife and courting her. She was also a Peace Corps volunteer. Oh, that's right. Yeah. I... Your life has been defined. It's still this in some ways. So here's this dialogue with Shiva.  He was kind of a war-like maniac and killing people. But you can learn from him. He says... So Shiva says, You really think I'm just an egotistical, murderous bastard? Me? Well, you've been eavesdropping on my conversations. Well, of course. I listen to anything I want. For an engineering man, your friend Bal Kelisker has some excellent ideas.  I keep telling you things, and you don't listen. Like what? I've said this before. Everything that commences must end. Anything born must die. Anything strong becomes weak. Anything that rises will fall. Well, what's so hard to understand about that, Mr. Shiva? It's what lies between the rise and the fall that you are completely missing, especially with women.  You keep thinking everything is either or old or new. Well, I ask... And then I ask him, is that true with you? When you turn to love, all things in the world tremble. In fact, the world trembles. That's what you haven't yet discovered. Why is that?  So there's these dialogues that go on throughout, as I'm trying to learn. You're writing them or someone else? I wrote them. This is yours, it's wonderful. You put yourself in the skin of Shiva himself. I'm trying to have a discussion with Mike, with the God, the local God. Could be any God. I love it. And that does give us an idea about the style of writing in your book. Give us another one, would you? Sure. Actually, I'll go back and read something. And this is just up at the beginning of it. And it's trying to capture a little bit about how quirky and interesting and strange and confronting India was. An Australian public health doctor I met in Japan on a hike in the Kiso Valley, told Carolyn and me that he'd been to India and worked there for several extended stays. Over dinner and sake, he exchanged peculiarities. He says, every day you are presented with something wondrous. One day there was a man standing in the middle of the road with two big bears on chains, holding up traffic until drivers would pay him money to move. Then he told me about the time he was on a bus going up a mountain and someone in the center aisle got sick and people passed him to the window horizontally so he could vomit.  And a hired band was following her, playing for, he's a jolly good fellow. So there's these just like, you know, mind benders. There's things going on there.  And what I get, I mean this as a compliment Peter, is that you're kind of a hippie come current, a hippie who read a lot in order to have all these references and literary, you know, It was a long monsoon which we had a lot to read. Really? Yeah. Once. So it's a very, actually sophisticated, just as the experience itself, was sophisticated. So let me, let me ask you this, and this is going to be hard for you, but how did it change you from what you were before to what you are now? And the book, if I read the book carefully, I think I can get my own answer, but how would you answer that? I think 22 years old, first you think you're immortal. Second of all, your cocksure about everything. And that changed. I knew I wasn't immortal by the time I came back. I knew that the world was more liminal and nuanced and subtle and that that's something that I can't hard to describe. But those lessons are useful right here in the United States of America. And they stopped. Anywhere, actually. And there were things that reinforced it. And so it's, not that I'm afraid to make decisions in life and not at all, but I just have been very patient and curious like you about the human condition and want to understand that some of the details and nuances of it. Okay. And those, those lessons, you know, that the study of patients, the incorporation of patients as an essential of character point. Have they helped you in dealing with your publisher? So the status of this is, it's a manuscript. I'm getting close to finishing. I have my friend and colleague, Katie Ranney, is doing a lot of editing on this. I've done lots of people have given me really helpful ideas and sometimes some scorching criticisms, all of which are useful. I plan to finish this up. I am in, I've got some inquiries out to agents in publishing houses. It's probably a dead end because the whole world of publishing is churning and changing. And in the end, I will probably publish it independent. So many people do these things. Yeah. And that's part of the change in the publishing world. Yes. That it's one of these trends. And as you guys know, stuff is migrated onto the internet. The publishing business is very different. Those big houses are consolidating or going out of business. Amazon is arising. Amazing. Yeah. And a few others too. And there are very few, the bookstores are going away with a few exceptions. There are some local niche ones, bookends in Kailua, and a few others that are neighborhood based. Who's your market on this book? That's really good. I think it's going to be Jay Fidel. It'll be Jay Fidel. Well, one copy. I can assure you of that, Peter. So no, I think it's going to be people who probably lived out in during that same era and are kind of looking back and thinking about it. It will certainly be former Peace Corps people who have probably gone through similar experiences. And guys like me who watched the Peace Corps, who wanted to be in the Peace Corps, you know, somehow, who admired the Peace Corps for all the years that it existed. You made a reference earlier to the fact that there still was a Peace Corps. Is there still a Peace Corps? There is still around. But it's not nearly as robust as it was in these days. It's still strong. And there's like two and a quarter of a million people have gone through the Peace Corps in one place, you know, in Latin America, Africa, Asia, South Asia. So it's still there. God knows what will happen to it in the next couple of years. Got to be funded. But it has survived. And probably because the core ideas are sound. It's had ups and downs. People have died in the Peace Corps. People have been lost for sometimes wrong reasons. It's still around. But the countries have changed. So India, for example, there were 5,000 volunteers that have gone through India. But India basically dumped the program. They said we don't need it. And I can understand that because they have their own country. They became more of a first world country. Yeah. Well, a little bit. So Peter, you know, I promised that we would discuss at least to some extent the notion of national service. You know, despite the fact that it didn't completely satisfy the draft authorities by going to the Peace Corps, you did do national service for sure. You know, you embraced national service and for lots of good reasons. And I did my thing.  But could you turn to camera one here at the Enterprise show and talk about your view of national service, what it did for you, whether it's important for the country, what the country should do going forward about national service? Well, I actually have recently wrote a little op-ed piece with a friend of mine, a guy who was in the Air Force in Vietnam while I was in India. And we struck up a friendship and his name is Victor Kraft. And he and I wrote a little piece that said we really should make some form of national service mandatory. And part of it is the look back and you say, this was a way that people mature in our culture. You don't mature just by staying in, you know, just doing texting and that kind of stuff. You have to get out there. And whether it's the Vietnam experience that he had, saving pilots, or whether it was my work, and we realized there's a common under, under, you know, firmament underneath there. So I've become a big believer and I think we really need to create and urge and push for these national service. Do something. Do something that's not just about you, but it's about something bigger there. And you did it. And I did it. And Victor did it. Ask not. You may remember these words. What your country can do for you. That's right. What you can do for your country. Thank you, Peter. Sure. My pleasure always. Thank you, Jake.


What's going on? If in a family welcome back to another video if you guys are new to the channel Make sure you guys hit that subscribe button turn on your post notification But leave a positive comment down below for a chance to get a what? I just want to shout out in the next video That is right guys because I might not be in the next video because as guys can tell outside about them in a video Your boy is gonna be doing the one chip challenge This has the Carolina Reaper and scorpion pepper in it seeing a lot of people do this challenge a lot of people don't Make it out, but your boys gonna make it out because it's gonna be light work guarantee So what's funny is my dad actually sent this to him because he asked him to send it And I don't know why he sent to so I'm actually unfortunately not doing this challenge with him guys She physically can't I can't I'm only two weeks post-op you guys already know you guys will be like well Why don't you wait until she's healed and all that she already has stomach problems? She can't do it point blank period the warning label says do not eat if you are sensitive to spicy foods Allergic to peppers nightshades or what the hell is that I can't pronounce that I don't know. I think that's a type of pepper or are pregnant Or have any medical conditions you'd have those irregardless of your surgery keep out of the reach of children Obviously after touching the chip wash your hands with soap and do not touch your eyes or other sensitive areas seek medical assistance Should you experience difficulty breathing fainting or extended nausea? They're so extra because I'm this is gonna be like we're gonna I'm afraid for him But also I made the mistake of doing a spicy noodle challenge, and I was throwing up for like two weeks not even kidding Yeah, this is supposed to be like 10 times pop There's gonna be way worse guys. I've been trying to do this challenge for like two years now everywhere We try to go it's like sold out and whenever we do find them They're like really expensive like 70 to 100 dollars for one chip. That's so deep not paying that but anyway without further ado Let's get into it one side open here the coffin also I want you guys to comment down below which one of our friends Do you guys want to see do the second chip that we have I'm not gonna lie I kind of want you out of comment my mom the most because I really want to get my mom to do this because you know It's kind of like payback in a way. I feel like his mom won't do it I feel like you guys should comment like Austin Miguel Gabba You can even comment like I think his grandfather wants to do it on the inside of the coffin It says what to expect round one a spicy punch round two a scorpion sting round three a vision disruptor round four a gut Slash and then round five you're roasted you're roasted So extra vision wait it says vision Disruptor like this is gonna make his vision go away.  This is the chip right here Okay, and I'm about opening and we about to get into it because this ain't no thing but chicken man Let's do it. So should I bring you milk if you need it? I'm not gonna need it Janice Okay, all right guys. So close chip about open it right now so you guys can see it Yeah, I think you're more nervous than I am. I don't want to see you hurt I am not nervous by any means. I see that I think you're underestimating this not underestimating it. It's already broken Yeah, it's in two pieces But this is what it looked like. Why it looked like that look rotten oh God, I don't even smell good. Really? Yeah, don't smell good. It does not smell good. Yeah No, it's not a straight pepper It's staying. It's not a straight pepper. I'm alright. You want to look that? No, come on. No Imagine alright guys, so without further ado, we got to get right into it So I got one half of the chip because remember it broke I'm not gonna lie my fingers are stinging a little really they're stinging a little bit I feel a little bit of a sensation. He's just wiping a little bit on his pants. I'm like, why did you do that? It's good. All right, you ready? No, you know what?  Oh my god. I don't want you to do this. I'm scared I'm sweating. Do you see my do you see my forehead? To I'm just gonna take a little bite.  Oh, it's expired.   Do you want to try it? No, that's normal.  Please let me know before you do it. It's not cold enough cold.  Cool down a little bit. Do you want to go outside take a walk? No, it's not it's nice and breezy Maybe I don't know you can do just say a prayer No, look at him. Yeah, the vision disruptor is real. Hey, baby. I'm seeing blurry.  Well, that's that okay like put water on your face or something going the bathroom just like wet your whole head Because I don't know how else to help you just drink all the milk in the house You guys don't be cracked that I want milk fresh open go show them.  All right. I think you need to go to the bathroom. Just let it all out. Yes Oh my goodness It's not gonna come out you're this is how he's been for the past couple minutes Guys I got to borrow my stomach hurts now.  They're not lying. Yo, it's real.  I thought the round is whatever the faces were bowl. It's not imagine if you were to be in the whole chip How much worse it would have been it's going down in my mouth But my lips are still like really staying. It's just mainly in my stomach. This is the most red I've ever seen your lips My stomach really hurt my stomach stomach stomach stomach stomach stomach really hurts now Do you want to go to the bathroom? No, it's not that type. I'm telling you this is different. Oh, no, it's different I'm so I don't know what to do guys. I'm just like sitting here like asking him if he wants this if he wants that He's like, no my stomach. I like okay. I don't know what to do I'm like a tough guy in the beginning of the video. I'm sorry. Oh my god Yeah, like a tough guy in the beginning of the video. I take that back. All right, this chip is nothing to play with. All right Yeah, I've already it's just gonna close out the video All right, I'm gonna fan. So that is it for today's video on the comments because he is sitting here still struggling Oh the amount of time I'm gonna be on the toilet later. Oh my god All right guys, so it is time for today's post notification shout out today's post notification shot It goes out to Jackie Romero. Thank you so much for your love and support We don't do it. I say and I love you if you guys want a post notification shot Oh, you guys got to do this like comment share and subscribe and turn your post notification bells That's to notify whenever we post a video also do not try this at home and we'll catch you in the next