Check it. Check it. It's a unique host is your boy e ceo, and I'm here with the lovely official Miss Jamaica Hey, man, so today we got a special guest man say man We say that every time cuz my wife say everybody special, you know But we got a special guest man I I con for me because I love music man And when Dallas didn't have no sound this guy here helped to make that sound possible And a lot of people don't realize it man, but we got to reach back man and give our Legends to me, you know what I'm saying the rose is why they hear man. Check it out man. Mr. Luchy is in the building aka Lou Diamond I Was that on that intro? Oh, that's XO man. That's XO man. She do all my intros XO man shout out to XO man.  What's she from? She's from Longview, but she's been out here. She just did one with fat pimp. She did she got one with a B-King she gone in XO XO music What you think about it? Man, so, you know Miss Luchy man, it's good to see you man. What about man? Appreciate you for man. Hey, man I'm just a lady man miss miss Jamaica. She's something else too She gonna she gonna hit she gonna hit you with a few questions It's gonna be the way she does it, but but I got a few But I first want to just kind of let you give a spill on just who you are and just you know Just in case somebody don't know you know I'm saying yeah Shout out to everybody that's listening to this podcast right now But for the people who don't know man, my name is Mr. Luchy aka Mr. Diabolical aka Lou Diamond, you know, I started back in 1998 with Mr. Pookie. Yeah, yeah, yeah crook for life was really one of first songs anyone ever heard I mean I did my first album solo album diabolical in 2001 ran from that and Been pushing ever since you know, yeah, yeah I was just just you know, just just a lot just a lot of music a lot of work and a lot of ground on a struggle Yeah, yeah, just came home for from a vacation. Yeah. Yeah, man. It happens sometime Yeah, yeah, it's college best thing that happened to me man you man say that again people don't realize man Man that time a just just a little bit thinking time and something else. Yeah, you know, we was out there We was talking it was like, you know, it's like we was like meditation glorify that so, you know, you know What it is put straight up and I do mean this in a good way. It's like man some Some people need to go to jail You know you say you you say in a mouthful straight up now if they sit still and use that time Supposed to yeah wisely then it's gonna be a benefit for him and everyone else he encounters for this life But you know, if he doesn't then it's gonna be something else Yeah, a lot of time it turns into recidivism to where a person continues to try to figure it out and get caught up in A trapezoid to where they keep going back over and over again.  Yeah, I got a cousin in Houston.  Yeah, so so, you know, I think a lot of times You know people don't realize but it saves you like like Jonah in the wheel You know what I mean? It saves you from a lot of stuff that might have happened to you It kind of cocoons you to where when you when you do get that time to come back You'd be just like Jonah and you try to you'll flip it and it'll be something better You would take that time and and you'll flip it and do use it for something good But I've heard so many people say whenever they've been in there so long is that when they come out They don't know how to readjust so they feel more comfortable being inside So they'll get in trouble again and go right back inside could they think of that as being their home more than here well What I seen on some of them because I seen people come and you know, you see people come and go Yeah, and well one of the things is Probation violation, you know a lot of people don't want to people I took a program off inside Jail didn't get out you take a program. It's a drug program called art that but yeah, it's really a cycle like a Like a psychology program because because you know, it's my they don't talk nothing about drugs Just talk about your thinking pattern and stuff like that But see I look at it a lot of those guys who I saw it steady coming back They got comfortable with your jail. It is true. You don't have no no bills You don't have nothing you have to do you got to work in certain spots But besides that, you don't got to worry about food. You ain't got to worry about Showered stuff like that. They give you poor hygiene stuff if you don't have money You know, but if you don't have no money, you're gonna eat and you're gonna, you know Do those things and a lot of people get comfortable with that And then when they come out to the real world in reality having to pay bills and do this and do that some people Fold under pressure and they take the easy way out as you say, right? They want to go back Yeah, and I think I think a lot of times man When you when you do like you said something that was key early as to use the time wisely, you know And you can tell the ones that's really changing when you're in there You can see the change in the individual because a lot of times They all disconnect from everything around them as well And they'll start to kind of read and do different things to challenge their character from where it stands And I think that's something that you can tell you can see a person who's causing the issues They're causing the issue. They're gonna cause issues in there as well They're not and and and they're gonna write a letter home and say hey man I love God and everything's good when they get a chance to sit in a bunk at night when they really Really looking at who they want to be but then that day they go right back to doing all the crazy stuff that everybody else is doing That's around them because it's a whole put it's a whole like environment People well, you know, I mean you got you're entertaining with different people including the guards the girls the girls the girls same thing How is the feds different from the state feds in the states in a way? How do you treat them how they live while they're in there because I've heard different things about I think just use in the feds I was in the feds and and and I think I think how did they treat you? I It's all on individual. It's all like he say to go hard. It's on the guard. Yeah, cuz it could be from eight to four They could be hail and then from Five to twelve. It's the best thing ever. Yeah, it's on the guard. They control the environment. Yeah, they control the move They did DJ let me say that Situations, you know, but the difference that the people who because some people were coming from state Yeah, like that they the state don't have air-conditioned like central air central heat and stuff like that. They don't have The MP3 like certain music such certain amenities and things that we got in the feds. They don't have right That's why I hear some people say being in the feds like a hotel Yeah, I get I get I get it now a cheap hotel. Yeah Yeah, but depending on where you at because I was blessed like I was my I never had a Any prize and then so my points were so loaded. I was able to go to a camp. So I went to a camp inside of Alabama my second prisoner went to yeah, you was in Segalville at first, right? I was in Segalville then I went to Alabama. But man, that was a that was a Country club that they had volleyball courts movie theaters at a pool They they end up filling the pool in, you know, because people were complaining But it's got golf course, you know, there's a whole lot of different things It was the prison that they made when they did Watergate when the water okay, you know, happy That's what that's why I had all them. They even got they they still got they kids Those little cabins back there where they had conjugal Individuals so that type of that type of phase where Martha Stewart probably would have went She's a one of them. Yeah. Yeah, I was a Maxwell The best the top two ones in Maxwell and then once I'm in Florida Wow, Pensacola, man, so so I Like I like the conversation where it's going, but I want to get into the music Did you get everything out of there cuz I know you Okay Okay, we'll start back back in the days I want to ride with you cuz I ain't never got the interview you so I know you probably been told these stories a million times You know what I mean, let's go but say say like when you guys first started off, man You know, you was young man. Well, how was you about 15? Yeah, I was 15 15. I thought I hit it, right? So when you when you first started how did that thing first start off? I wanna cuz the people need to hear this man. Your legacy is something else. It's gonna be told forever Well, it started out for me Because of my brother. Okay. I was at the barbershop and my brother was getting his hair cut I don't know. I got in the chair and the barber was like, hey, man, your brother say you can rap Spit something for me. And so I spit something for him and he listened to me and he says spit something else I spit something else. He just smiled and cut my hair and then later on that night He was cool with my pops later on that night. He called about 1112 and he had Kevin a on the phone while some of my dad brought the phone inside the room Woke me up. It was Kevin a on the phone. So and he had me rap for Kevin a Then Kevin ain't said he wanted to meet me the next day after school Yeah, so at school. I went meet him at the barbershop and rap for him and his wife and Then the day after that I was in the studio with Pooke in them. Wow. So he had already signed Pooke in him Yeah, he was at a management deal with with with y'all and Kevin a or was it just he just With Kevin a you know with Kevin a who the the one that came and listen to you rap that was Kevin a correct Was that y'all had a situation together at the time when he once he pulled you and took you to the studio? No, no, he just wanted today. He just wanted I just met him Cuz it ain't like it was like it is a day today. They're looking for a situation soon as they see you But he just wanted an opportunity to make some music with you. Yeah, he um, yeah, yeah pretty much I mean it was more of letting me have an opportunity because he already had his ship going okay I already had dropped K-Rock. He already had his whole K-Rock. Yeah, yeah, yeah Then he was working on a rippler album. Wow. It was already in played on the radio. Okay. Okay. So he already was rolling Yeah, he was already rolling and plus he out. You know, he was Kevin a was a he was an art for Def Jam he really death row Universal like when I those people send music here. He's the one to break it He's the ones to go to the DJs behind the scene now not the club DJ He goes to the DJs who enforced on all the DJs. Wow. So that's what he was. That's how he got our music in. Yeah So he slated in the same pack. Wow Universal them send that pack. They send it promo pack when you give the DJs a promo pack it got 50 cent Jray certain such mr. Pookie crew flag sudden such such such such such So the DJ just they run it. Do you remember the first what the rap that you write for you? Nah, I don't I don't that's a long time ago. I don't I don't even remember How long were you rapping before that day before that day before that day? I was Freestyle in a couple of years So you've always wanted to be a rapper. Yeah, I was one influenced you Sure during that time somebody had I used to like bone bone. Okay, when I was when I was when I was baby, baby, like cuz that's when I um my mom used to have a big old stereo and I used to Do the tape player and pressure why the lyrics down so I was writing lyrics down to those songs I wasn't rapping at this time. I just want wanted to write the lyrics down in the song I haven't heard anybody say that before that's different Yeah, I used to write the lyrics down. I just I used to want to know the words so I write the lyrics down to the song So once I do that now fast forward screw comes and my brother Them freestyling so now and you know screw going I always let that beat roll So now we're freestyling over the screw tapes. Wow practicing like that. Wow and then so that's like from That screw stuff put so probably about from what about 12 to 14 something like that but Really sparked it was when I was 13. I was living in Louisiana and that's when I heard Lil Wayne, okay, okay 13 in his rap. Okay, like 13 such such when he did dad.  They was rapping. Okay, this time I was I was 15 at this time. I was 14 15. They was they was rapping I went down to my mom wedding and in Louisiana and we went to the wedding He went to parking lot chilling and he put a CD in and it's him rapping on the CD Wow blew my mind. I'm like, dang for how you do that. Let me get in the studio He's like, yeah, yeah, I gotcha. I gotcha. I gotcha. We the same age one year apart. Mm-hmm But um, I was down there that hope that that something never let me go man.  So when I came back, I lost I locked myself in my room for the next couple months And I just wrote I just wrote I just wrote because I felt like I probably wasn't good enough That's so crazy that in your mind, you probably was thinking that I know I'm gonna be there But you just didn't know that you could be there that young. Yeah So when you heard the Wayne, you're like, I can do this now. Yep The thing I look at is you guys came before DSR Yeah, we came you guys came before DSR, but I remember OG run see Nemesis, you know what I mean? I remember when the rally bars and I remember the You know the movement before and I'm just walking up into the fact of how you guys came in and the way These you guys were doing your cadence is nobody hadn't been doing it like you guys was doing it In Dallas like to me and I didn't see that that style that the way I was ripping you say I could I could hear the bone I get it, but you you still had a distinct sound. Yeah for me Just go just looking back hindsight, you know what I mean, and I thank you for it You know I'm saying cuz a lot of time people No, no, no, you still got down you you you ripping now. Did you see nine? There's a whole different We ain't talking about Lou Diamond. No, sir. We we still talking about mr. Lucci. You know Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, you know when I always when I'll be looking at things man, so when you when this right here I remember when I wrote it, yeah, so how was the process shoot we was in the studio. He played a beat that beat Yeah, he played the beat and I wrote the course instantly Like by the time I got to the eighth bar. I'm like, give me a pin. Give me a pin. Give me a pin I wrote the course And then he gave us the beat went back to my house and then we went in on that one But tell you the truth the first bird the first version we had Well, we didn't even get to finish it cuz we started it and we started it and We got halfway through it and Kevin showed up to the crib tripping really. Yeah, he was tripping because um We skipped some songs.  Yeah, like that. He always made me rewrite my verses He always made me write two versions really come with a verse cuz he wanted to push me want to push I know what he did. No, my verse was hard. I know my verse was hard I did a different way He raised that verse and write another verse. He wanted to go. He wanted to go harder.  He didn't do that to nobody else. No, no, no yours was heavy though No, he even he was younger to see this baby boy right here. Yeah See, it's a difference when you're dealing with this you the youngest child, right? Yeah, see see and at the end of the Day that he been pushing everybody probably push you because you younger, you know, I'm saying yeah during that time They like oh, yeah, we yeah make him do it again Oh, you know, I'm gonna get him to do it again Oh, you know, but it really the young one usually the one to be coming hard It's ain't gonna lie to you even in the Bible days you the young the young one all he had every time I could promise I could take it there Yeah, but I ain't gonna do that But I could take it there the young the youngster always come on there I believe the vision is always in the younger generation Just like I was talking about your kids coming up It's good. Yeah, it's something different in them way more exciting than what we ever done Yeah, and people don't realize that so a lot of time we get caught in our old ways And we don't let the youngsters push us where we need to be now and the technology is changing. I'm going there Let me get back. Let me pull it back out Iconic I was 18 Yeah, but I finished my record when I was 17 I almost done when I was 17 But you didn't sign till afterwards. No, he waited a year. He won't let me sign Because my mom had to be present. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah 17. Yeah.  Yeah, this cabinet. So how's that? Did you feel like so long sorry, babe? For your mom to appear to sign the paper she know he wouldn't he wouldn't let You feel like it was the best thing You feel like it was it was gonna do it because he knew my mom and then was gonna know what was going on Oh, yeah, he's trying manipulate. You know I'm saying. Yeah, that's what it was And he did what he did because my mom me and my tea lady never fell out behind that because I My brother too, you know Sam because I went in I was wrong. I went I was like, man, I want a rap So shoot I'm doing this regardless whether y'all with me or not And it kind of caused some some you know saying some riff because they were like this ain't a good dude You know, but I didn't want I didn't want to hear that You know the thing the thing that I can Definitely tell you is uh, you know when you when you dealing with when you dealing with Different people and and and you hear this over and over again about those first situations that people, you know I mean have in the industry where where it ain't just one person this thing happened throughout during those times Yeah, people were getting down on everybody. You know what I mean, and I think a lot of times what happens is They threw so much salt and dirt on everything that it made everybody be in conflict You know what I mean like you saying about you and your brother you you know there are you and your mother or whoever Yeah, you know that's and it's a manipulation tactic as you you you spoke on you know what I mean And what I saw is the tactic was Having you in in that space for a whole year Saw the brain washed you in seeing and that's just my opinion from what you're saying and seeing The music seeing the life seeing everything else without anybody getting your air and saying no no no at an earlier stage You know what I mean, but one thing I can say that you said that I know your character when I when you say it, but I was wrong. See a lot of people ain't gonna say that See a lot of people are not gonna say it You can tell in that character that they steal Holding resentments and a lot of stuff in order for you to be able to say that Then you already then you don't you dealt with yourself that time a lot of time that you spend with yourself is so potent You said that early as well. It's real. You know what I mean? So I think that that's the part will make you stand up and stomp down especially for them kids You know I'm talking about yeah So being the youngest one signed to um iconic at the time. How was it coming in? And how did everybody treat you? It was love. I met pookie first And um, I wrapped the verse with pookie and then he was like, oh, yeah, you can rap You know what I'm saying and then I met montess that same day k-rock was supposed to come but he never showed up And after that day me and pookie and um, you know, it was just click. It was it was just jail You know, like I say they start saying miss. They made us a group without us even saying it You don't say pookie without saying miss. Oh, man. It goes together to me But exactly we weren't even a group. Yeah, but y'all y'all y'all that's what I told and I said that to him early I said when it first happened y'all wouldn't know it wasn't no it was a it was it was like pookie miss luge It was I thought I didn't think of y'all as a group. Yeah at first and y'all it wasn't was you No, we weren't who came up with but y'all was every time k-rock.  Oh What's your name? I say little j.  He's like wrap some. I'm og k-rock. I'm like, all right. So I wrap some He's like wrap some again. I wrap some again. He say Nick your name luge Yeah, your name luge. I'll let you later I got to file. I'm like Hell yeah, mr. Luce. Yeah, they do and then you just put the mister on there.  I don't know where that came from. Yeah, he did that That was crazy. He did that with him. He did it with all of us. You know, see him's gonna be uh, mr. Pookie You know, it's mr. Montez then it was uh You know, it was us like that But it's funny because man, I was talking to one of my friends the day It's a friend and I pick up the phone. I'm like, hello. He's like mr. Luce. I'm like say, bro Come on, man Let me ask you about this song. You know what I'm for the play. I think you heard it You know the beat like crazy. Yeah That right there. How did that that let me listen to a little bit give me a Yeah Yeah, that and right there uh, that and hit for me hard Yeah, you niggas help me or y'all help me sell a lot of stuff. I guess all of them. Yeah Y'all a I wrote to y'all doing a lot of things. You know what I'm saying I was in the streets man. So let me let me ask you how did how did that process? I see my boy done chief shout out done chief. He'll be here this weekend Yeah, how did how did uh, how did y'all link up with him and how did that whole thing transpire? Uh, same way. I came to the group By Kevin a okay that man working. He put it in he was linked with c-doll Okay, uh, I don't know if y'all know c-doll c-doll uh really a pioneer gatekeeper type dude for the city too Okay, I'm saying he don't get a lot of acknowledgement, but you know what he's doing. So, um him He knew chief. Okay, and he told Kevin about Okay about us. I mean we're about chief. He told Kevin about chief and then he ended up Setting up a meeting we went and met him at a hotel Chopped it up with him because he was doing his own thing. Mm-hmm. Then we brought him over to the studio And we did yeah, we did the whole the tongue and then it went down man It was smooth too like y'all all just vibe so good together man It's like you couldn't that song seemed like it was all you can jam it now and it's still jam Like it's ahead of this time like it's just gonna some songs just hit forever. Yeah, that song right there is one that That I could listen to anytime and it's just it's just going you know, I mean, it's just it flows, bro You know, I know you none heard that before. Yeah. Yeah So what and we we gonna keep going go ahead, baby. I know you got that whole book over here now No, um, I'm going back to when The society where everybody puts you to to that you two together as a group mr. Lucia and mr. Pookie, right? um How was it because now you had to do everything together as a group No, we didn't have to you didn't have to but you gotta keep in mind We around each other 24 seven so why not? Okay, so you meshed real good and yeah, we still drop solo albums and every time you did Yeah, we still drop solo albums Sure did good. We actually only did two albums together But what no solo album when y'all on each other? Yeah, you were still on it. We on each other Oh, so yeah, you wouldn't really call it a group then. No, you know, I never did see it that way as much as When we talked to mr.  Yeah, it was like what What instagram what they do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, they tell the truth.  Okay. I got it. That makes sense. How can I convince you? Not to believe what you believe correct correct correct So nah, and then I got a thing about a shoot. We moved like a group like I say, yeah together every day We worked every day. Yeah, we when you book us you book us together. Yeah, do individual shows. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we book We book we book close so I think you guys did that whole era for me Like I say, I appreciate it because at the end of the day It was an enjoyable moment. I bought the cds and yeah, I I rock with you guys and that's that's the whole game for dallas period, man I wrote for chief l and everything he greeted volume. You can find, you know, I'm saying So it's just when you've needed with the city and you love what's going on in it You're gonna rock with it. You know what I'm saying? So so I definitely definitely I miss those times too when you think back hindsight you be like dang And I'm gonna ask you more question when we get in the ludaim and later on Right now we we dealing with mr. Lucia. Well, you know, it says that diabolica and rippler Still holds the title of the most units sold for independent artists from dallas Do you know that still be true today? No She'd be looking up stuff, man. See now. What what'd you what'd you say it does? It says according to the nelson sound and scan. So When I googled it, that's what I found Yeah, that's a good look for she's So like I told you about a man that numbers don't lie man And like I said, you guys are iconic and legends in the city and the one thing I could agree with Mr. Pooke on when he was on here is that dallas fort worth embraced the hell out y'all, you know And and and that that nobody hadn't seen that type of Uh, but but y'all know the impact that a city can do right here, you know, you can do numbers right here And people don't realize if you can hear it hear it and san antonio and austin It's a wrap because that texas is so big, you know, what I mean I think little flip kind of even pushed that narrative when he came into his success Of how powerful these numbers do in the south and you can't do nothing about it Shout out flip to yeah, shout out flip. Yeah family like like so with instagram being a deal and facebook and Because my space didn't really just rock the music out too much It was an instagram facebook type deal Um twitter a little bit, uh, how did you because you've seen the transitions before it was here and after it was here How how did how do you look at things when it comes to that? Are you loving the movement the way things are going now? Tiktok as well? Well, I ain't got no tiktok.  I'm adjusting. I'm gonna have to get it. Let me tell you why I'm gonna get what I'm gonna get every it you have to get a likey too So, how is it adjusting? It's so many different things, man.  I see them over here like what is it like? But it's well old boy prince. They told us about this likey old boy prince was on here You heard you know him, right? No, he was with the gs boys. All right, okay And he he did that round rocks on one leg in one leg out You was was you locked out? You might have been just coming home. So you probably didn't hear it But anyway, uh, they do numbers on there and likey is you went on like I didn't go on there But this is a place where people going live and and basically Getting the impact, right? You can get paid you get paid off of it So it's stuff going on all the time with these platforms Just like that and and they went live right here And had they phones on And steadily dealing with their live audiences because they'd accumulate people can do pledge dollars or whatever And and and I think a lot of times that's where we get lost in the sauce We got to step up and learn these new platforms because there's monetarily gain on them You know what I'm saying? And if you don't know them you miss it out because you you miss Luda Luda.  Lucha because that's what the impact come from that's where the people go come through all your people Yeah, it's just I I expect luda.  I wanted it to stick when I when when I got that now, you know every name I got No, but I didn't never name everybody My partner doski g Yeah, yeah, yeah How did he come up with that name? He called me diamond because he was like, uh, I'd be one of the first artists to sell 10 million out of Dallas Wow, he believed in me. So you're gonna be one of the first ones. That's you know, you go diamond Yeah, yeah, that's correct Where does it come from lucha lucha Mr. Lucha, so let me ask you man. So so what would What what do you do? Let me see.  Yeah Because because they in there On every stage So you supposed to be there to perform for yeah, and if you do it, it's going to be like a monetary. Yeah beneficial for you Yeah, I know that now switch though because you know, we grew up in the days where you had CDs or Tape this And you walking around and you handing out your CDs giving out to people flyers and all of that And right now the way how society is everything is internet social media and It's it's Seems hard for us to be able to manage all of these different sites You have this one information.  Oh my god. I forgot to say it to this one I need to say to that I need to say it to this one And then even me doing research into this if you're just sending pictures Easy because you can schedule that and have one app that sends it out to everybody when you're saying out videos It's a little bit harder to try to send videos out to everything and sit down there and do it.  They love it because that's what they grew up Yeah, this they age Exactly what I said earlier. But for us it's a lot harder. Yeah, but I said that earlier y'all y'all It is harder, but but we have to learn We have to do it. It's business. It's business. Yeah, we got to adapt. What else you got? Oh, it's on you, baby Okay, you got to get to it. Okay. So, um, why did you leave iconic? Uh, well Wasn't getting paid found out what was really going on. No, it's being screwed. Yeah Yeah, so and it was only it was you and mr. Luchi who left together mr. Pookie mr. Pookie. No, they stayed Oh, they stayed till you left. Yeah, I left. Okay. How long did you leave before they left? Probably Six months to a year.  They were like, yeah Your family probably already knew and how did your family, um, feel about it when you said you were leaving They supported you with everything no matter what?  How many brothers and sisters you have? I got one brother one sister Okay, and you're the baby. Yes, man. How many kids do you have? I got five boys. That's my guy Straight up. That's what I'm talking about. Are you done? Are you trying for your girl? Man, we don't know yet. My god, you gotta get a girl now. You gotta keep going till you get You gotta keep my god. We don't know yet. It's up in there. How old is the youngest? 10 he'll be 11. Oh, so you might be done one. I'm a rapper though. I seen it Right. That's my 15 year old. I got a 15 year old Man, that's crazy. So so how you got the music out of you? Young jg say so Yeah, I like it. I like it jg say so jg say so I'm gonna be looking for he uh, what's the name he got in it because he wanted to get in Do you help him? Yeah, I help him Does he write like you? Oh, he write like him. Okay, but he writes a lot I can't say a lot because I just know he was ready when I came home. Wow saying he just needs More pushing let me ask you a question Sunday before father's day Will you be able to bring him and sit on this platform with him? We're doing a father's day thing sunday before father's day. I remember that but like I told you on the phone I got this fresh out the fence to jump. Oh If yeah, I get it that day's book. It's his book. It's booked. I get it. But if it's not but we could do a face time A zoom in. Okay. Yeah. I got the screen. He's gonna be with me because we're taking them on the road Well, we have to do it that way if we have to do it that way No, ma'am He's working he's performing. Okay. So so so he working with him on stage presence and all that I know what's going down He's on my album. Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah, so I just say um, when you um When you do it, I may send you a zoom link or whatever. I can put it on the screen here Both of y'all and because I know, uh, mr. Poogie and his son He said you're gonna bring his son and and I got another guy that's bringing his son Yeah, it's gonna be it's just something for father me and my son. He'll be here. He ain't got no other choice But he might he might tell me no, I don't know. I don't know 27 now a nigga may not And how old is he oldest 17? Oh, he 17 is the oldest. Okay. All right. Well, okay what we doing Oh Me again. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just letting you ride out okay, so um Whenever mr. Poogie left and y'all came back together and created your own label crowd of bow Okay, and how long did that last shoot probably about We had crowd of bow probably about I think two three years and then we started. Did y'all have artists on that label with y'all? Yeah, we had artists with us How many did y'all sign? We didn't sign none You know what I'm saying? We didn't sign an artist because at that time we wouldn't After going we went through we wouldn't put nobody on paperwork. Wow. I like Gucci, man. We were just eating together. You know, okay So I don't like dealing with that. Why because when I think about a label, I'm thinking about like if I was creating a label I'm thinking about okay. I need to get my paperwork because I'm going to sign something He was y'all label now diamond music group. Yeah, it's like that but at uh 19 you know what I'm saying 20 now. I went back and like that. I didn't want to say that's right. I had our kind We had our stuff did We're worried about trying to handle Other artists because we trying to shake back our mind. We left for nothing so we come With nothing and that's and that's crazy because I'm gonna be honest with you Like even your masters and all that stuff right now still messed up in that music, right? Yeah. Yeah That's still messed up. Yeah messed up and and that's And we didn't know nothing. We didn't know nothing. No a handicap All we knew I knew I knew this though. I knew how to be a perfect artist I knew how to make music. I knew how to put on good shows and stuff like that But as far as copyrights Publishings.  We've never been in studio before Because back then I hear a lot of artists not just you Went through the same thing and I'm like, okay, weren't there any older artists who had the knowledge that you knew that could have I'm 15. I know but there was no artist. There was no artist That was one of the first ones. No artist. No artist everybody was trying to see what we was doing to get the word We was in correct on the outside looking in it looked like we had it all together So nobody would even come talk to you about paperwork when you on the radio you doing this they they ain't on there So they think and that's the house took care of Right, you know me so now nobody But everything happens for a reason because when we go through things in life To me I'm looking at your life at the testimony where you should be trying to help other young kids coming up That they don't go through that even if they're not signed with your label But you know you see somebody talented and you see them on the radio or whatever and you you know You put them to the side You have this straight. Do you have that straight? You know what I mean? Because it could be you looking at them and thinking that oh they they got it together Just the same thing that people looked at you. No, I do. I do a different I do a different I do a different because I I know that's why god sent me through that because he knew how Not to treat artists. He knew I was going on a label one day and he let me go from the ground up That's almost like when you work at a shop you when you start from the janitor to Washing dishes to cooking to Managing to owning the company is like, you know every level in the company on what really needs to go on so you have more control and more Handle on that situation and that's how I feel like he did me with as far as when I get a label because he let me see Exactly how it feels to be an artist the resentment you feel and you know, I don't want to make nobody feel like that When you know, because it's dangerous when I get like And be able to talk to an artist who do feel like how you felt and able to calm them down and be able to relate to them and Get through to them. Yeah, I didn't talk to a lot of them But some of them it some of them like I tell them you got a charge you got to walk away from You got some stuff. You just got to walk away. Wow And you learn So I walk away that old stuff. Yeah, I ain't gonna never hear me talking about the old stuff Yeah, that's the past I gave it did it did exactly what I needed to do It gave me a platform And it gave me an audience to be able to do me that That ripped the the crook for life from the diabolical that was that that wasn't that's not to carry my future That's not to keep me pushing. That's right. That's dead. That's real. You know what I'm saying I agree Because at the end of the day it like I told mr. Boogie the same thing like I told you outside You got an opportunity now Yeah now and and to move forward into that opportunity It depends on you staying focused the bible even say no man look back Without running into something. Yeah, straight up.   Yeah, go all the time. Y'all get together good times and you look back and you see them and you's like Ah, man, we used to have good times. Yeah. Yeah, but we can't do that now I got my kids at home. Yeah, I got to get up for working when I got to do this It was fun back then but now we go saying it's crying time. Good memories. Good memories right now That's my past. I'm looking at my future and that's how I feel about the old music. I like that man. All right, um So you don't you did you have more questions?  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, um It flew out of my head Hey, I got something though, man I want to say though how these artists be acting like people in general act like they can't do stuff They can't make things happen. Okay. I look at it. I touched down bro with nothing Yeah, I had nothing bro. I'm on preparation. I work I get up at six in the morning I work to four in the afternoon Pick up my kids dropped them off by six in the afternoon And I go straight to the studio on to 230 in the morning and lay it down And and that's 230 in the morning leaving. That's not that's so that's not adding on the ride Did it takes me to get back to my crib? I agree then I lay down and get back up and I'm right back on it Just like before I got here What I tell you I'm coming from work drowning my kids. Yeah, I'm on my way, you know That's right. So it's like Ain't no excuse ain't no excuse. I love ain't no excuse for nobody I love it and and the masses need to hear that because that'll help somebody Because you you was gone not even just a year ago Yeah And now you didn't touch down And you and you and you ain't playing no games because you had time to think about what you wanted to do And you're doing it and that's a blessing and people don't see see you got a focus to do that And it takes letting people go letting things go around you in order to go this new way that you're trying to grow to You have to I get that You're because I've I've been there and a lot of people Said he was you think you this or you think you that I remember man They laughed at me because I quit drinking smoking everything. I shut it down Yeah, because I didn't feel like it was no time to be celebrating when I came home right before Christmas And my kids I couldn't even afford to buy them anything Say so after that I never drank again. It's been over over 20 some years almost 30 to 25 years Yeah, never drank never smoked never did anything Again because I didn't feel like it was a time to celebrate. Yeah, because I had to focus I didn't even celebrate holidays for the first three years It was straight focus because I knew that my son was young at the time and my daughter and I said I had to focus because I kind of felt like I let them down. Yeah, and I didn't get no what no visitation. None of that stuff. Yeah for for the whole time Basically just me and god Right because they didn't visit that no But I like but yeah, my or what when I was a single field. Yeah Oh, but some people didn't yeah, some people some people didn't I can guarantee you everybody didn't Well, yeah visit you not just my kid. I didn't but you know, you gotta people. Yeah, you approve You approve it. Yeah. Yeah. So I didn't I didn't expect people my my pre-trial year What was I got on a pre-trial that first year? I everybody raced they self out the picture. There it is. I didn't even have to there. It is they stopped picking up their phone Yeah, they owe me money. They think I'm hot Girl see ain't going to the club no more throwing bread and doing this so they don't ain't no used to being around You know more so this this this so everybody fell back So my whole year that was my whole year out But it was my like my first year in yeah because I lost everybody So when I went in I was good I didn't expect nothing from nobody because I already seen where it was at So only people I talked to was my wife or my ex-wife my kids my brother my mother Dotsky That's it. Nobody else. Nobody talked to me. I noticed that whenever I was doing some research I noticed I saw um on facebook. I saw where they had posted your tdc your number and Information of the address and so forth if anybody wanted to write you But that was only done like a year before you were almost ready to come back out But you were going how many years three three and a half. We're really right right at four Okay, how comes that wasn't done like before because you know letters help it helps you to keep going It was it was done at the very beginning because I put it up I was working my facebook at the beginning. So it was the instagram. I wasn't but it was up at the very beginning But the thing about it was I was telling like they were Wanted to do that. I'm like bro. I'm not tripping on that. I'm in here. Let me be in here But the thing about it is that's the only people that did write me were fans You know, no friends. That helped you fans. That helps you though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it made me feel good Because they came at the right times They came at the right time. So yeah, they made me feel good. Well, mr. I would think mr. Luji will appreciate you man. Um, like I said, um Definitely, uh, anytime you in the area, you're welcome to come here if you want to push something out to the masses New projects and stuff like that. I'm all so man. Thank you for the show and uh, thank you for uh Thank you for coming man, and it's going down man appreciate y'all. Yes, sir boss talk 101. Yes, sir


performance management. Who here has had their recent performance review, let's say in the past three months? Okay, good. How energized did that leave you? Did that really make you eager to go on and perform for your company and grow or were you more frustrated about it? Because that's what we see in organizations today, that we want the system that is energizing but that's not what we are getting. And performance management is probably the most scrutinized HR process out there. There's no other human resources instrument that is as criticized as performance management. And companies have already started to eliminate employee appraisals. 10% of Fortune 500 companies have realized that that's not the way for them to go and they've started to change and there are many more to follow. And it is definitely time for change because performance management as it exists today has its root in the 1950s. And we are definitely in different times now. And performance management used to be considered best practice and 91% of organizations have a performance management practice in place. And the process is fairly standard. It looks like this that at the beginning of the year or at the beginning of the performance period, you have a formal goal setting process. So 95% of companies do that. If you're lucky, you get a mid-year review and then you have the end of year or end of performance cycle appraisal. What they do is that you get a performance rating. So nine out of ten companies have a performance rating. Usually they have a fourth point scale. Force ranking or stacked ranking is when they put you into segments that they have an equal amount of people in certain categories. 30% of organizations do that. Indian companies are at 61% during the force ranking. And paper for performance, meaning the link between performance management and your appraisal to compensation to salary merit is at 89%. So the process is very standard. And you see that in any industry, any size, any organization has more or less the same system. And that should already tell you something. So how much does it cost to actually do this performance management system? We have here a study by Deloitte. They said they themselves invested 2 million hours a year in evaluation. 2 million hours. And they say that if you have 10,000 employees, you spend 35 million a year on performance appraisals. Imagine what you can do with $35 million and 2 million hours. Do you really want to do employee appraisals? So how satisfied are we with that? We have 95% of managers are dissatisfied. We have 59% of employees say it's a waste of time. Same say it doesn't drive engagement. 30% say it actually decreases performance and only 2% of age are professionals. So the people who actually invented and implemented performance management say it's top. All the other 98% say it doesn't work. So the question is, we have a system that costs us billions. We have a system that is dissatisfying that has proven to actually decrease performance and still we are doing it. So why are we so reluctant to change? And a lot of it has to do with comfort zone and to imagine what comes next. As they say, no one gets fired for doing performance management because everyone else does it as well. So I'm on the safe side. But the title shifting and agile organizations are at the forefront because they are realizing that this system simply doesn't work in our times. So what do they do? They start implementing an iterative approach. So they align it with the processes and the cadence that you already have in the natural teams. Then they set meaningful goals because we know today that most employees, they don't really know what to do with their goals. So how do I translate my goals into my daily work? And an actual approach helps with that. And they empower self-organizing teams. So I know these things are very obvious for you here in the room, but they are not for many organizations out there. And of course, we have to embed learning and development into the daily workflow. And we have to help our employees to get feedback, to get learning, and to improve. We have to motivate through mastery, purpose, and autonomy. So who here has read or knows about Daniel Pink? So that's the theory that comes in here. We say, okay, we have to really be sure if we want to link everything to market. We have to eliminate performance ratings. That simply doesn't work. And we have to accept our leadership mandate because we expect this system, this performance management system, to handle so many things, to identify high performer, to support them, to reward them properly, but also to deal with bad performers or outliers. But we have to take the leadership responsibility to deal with them straight away and not wait for a performance review. And of course, agile teams bring a different mindset to the performance management approach. So we really look for the conversation. It's forward-looking. It has to be positive, collective. We want to improve performance. We want to inspire and focus on the future and build on strength and really bring in this new mindset. But of course, there are some challenges associated with that. Like, how do we remunerate fairly individually without appraisals? How do we do that in teams versus the individual? What's the New York stick for pay and promotion? And how do we rate performance if we don't have a rating? And how do we deal with low and underperformers? So these are some of the questions that we have to answer. And there are certain answers that are similar throughout a different organization, but some of these answers are very unique to your own organization. Like, how do you want to show appreciation to your employees? That's very unique. That has to be part of your culture. So there are different ways to approach that. And what we would like to do is to really hub into all the experiences, ideas and thoughts that are here within this room. And the way we're going to do it is that we're going to give you about five to ten minutes to think about challenges that you see or ideas that you have. And then anyone who wants to present their challenge can come up here and present it. And then we're going to vote on what topics we would like to talk. We're going to have our breakout session depending on time.  So it's basically like a mini open space within the conference. Any questions to how we're going to approach this? If not, let's get going with your ideas. I think there's some paper on the table or if you need some sticky notes, I'm going to hunt them out. Otherwise, you can just start discussing and brainstorming your ideas of what you would like to discuss. Yes, yes. What do you think you would like to have discussed? So it can be either some of the questions that I post or it can be something that you experience in your own company that you said, okay, I would really like to post this question to this room because we have so much knowledge in the room and experiences that we can really tab into that. Excellent. Any volunteers? Who would like to present a challenge or who would like to go first? Okay, so my name is Zingade. So my role is actually a line manager for the developer. So basically in the agile, so what we follow. So it's a scrum of scrums. So there are total 32 scrums are there and 320 people are working. Okay, so I am the developer for four scrums. So basically and for within the scrum, there are the roles like PO, scrum master and architect. And then there are developers. So this is the organization, which is one scrum. In one scrum, there are 10 people out of that six are the developer and four are the key roles. The main challenge is I am not part of the scrum for day to day activity because this is one of the biggest problem. So as a manager, because I am from the outside. Okay, so when what is happening inside when it comes to the performance management. Okay, first thing is I need to understand what the developer feels from his performance perspective. Okay, then the complete different picture is getting from the PO's scrum master and it's very difficult for me to assess who is actually telling correct and all these things. So it's very difficult as a line manager to understand what is exactly happening because I can have one-on-one meeting with the developer regularly, maybe monthly basis. Okay, so I can get the feedback and all these things. But when it comes to the performance appraisal, the key roles like scrum master, PO and architect, they take the complete the discussion ownership of that. He's not doing good. But when I have the individual discussions, but they feel that they are really doing good. But this is one of the challenge where I need to understand how to have the performance management in this environment. Thank you. Who would like to go next? I'll probably explain a process which we used to follow in my previous organization, just Tesco. So we used to have this brag system. Anybody familiar with brag? What it stands for? It stands for blue, red, amber and green.   And then in case if you are rated red, you are out of the system. So that's the brag system which we used to follow. And typically the performance cycle used to happen twice a year, mid-year and the final year. Mid-year is when you will give him for the first time that when you're not doing so well you're doing really well. And you'll be, in case if you are an amber or in case if you are an amber, you'll be given with a performance improvement plan which everybody is familiar with. And he needs to work on that for the next six months. So this is arguable in terms of how effective this could be. So what I started doing in my teams, I used to play the role of a Scum Master and Agile Coach and the Product Owner. So what I used to do with my teams is that, I used to have this monthly one-on-ones, everybody does that, a quick half-nose session with every member in the team and then discuss what his achievements are. If there is any feedback from himself or from the team, what are his challenges, try to address them.  So that when every month you tell him that when you are green, you are blue, you are amber. So it's a continuous feedback and a continuous brag. So whenever you're giving him a mid-year review as green or amber, he's well prepared for it. At the same time, he knows clearly that these are the things which has been pointed out in month one, month two, and I have acted on it or I have not acted on it. And accordingly, you get a chance, you give a chance for him to kind of like correct it month on month rather than give him a surprise by the end of six months or end of one year. So this surely worked for me, but I don't know whether this could be the solution for the problem which the gentleman just stated. But I would love to hear your views as well. Thank you. Any more challenges? Hi. My question more towards we talk about team, team, team and agile, right? So how do you differentiate a performance between a team and a team player? Because that's going to be critical end of the year. They are rewarded for something because that's the biggest challenge. I can say the last three months I have been dealing with just finished performance last week. I can tell you everybody nobody thought about team. They said, what did you give? Okay, I'll talk about two things. One is expression management and I don't know is properly giving opportunity for somebody to perform. The challenge I see in our company or most of the places I saw that when you actually do the performance analysis with a person, his biggest question is, did I get the opportunity to perform in my core area? And you as a company, as a service company, you don't get all the opportunities to give the proper opportunity for somebody to perform in his core area as well.  Not only for getting not right, the opportunity as well as the performance of pleasure happened to him. Also, expression management, we all talk about teamwork together.  They have their own aspirations, their own social status. So there is an area of conflict between you judge a team by their teamwork and individual people with their own social aspirations and challenges. Anyone else? Hi, I'm Surabhi. I'm from performance and talent management company itself. We are having a software development into that area. I think I would agree with the guy just told about frequent reviews. And that's what we are also doing, that we are doing more status reviews quarterly. So the people get some chance to work on those things that they need to improve on and they can align their goals according to what is the organization goal. The challenge again, the same is that in agile teams, we talk about the goals of team. It's about how we assess individuals in that case, right? So when it comes to individuals, at the end of the day and at the end of the year performance assessment, when it is going to be happening, how we assess that what person is contributing, how he is contributing. Because the agile teams doesn't have any role of managers into that. Manager has to sit out and look at that. And that is very difficult. Though what we do is that we involve the scrum masters or the people who are working, like we have the leaders into that team also. So we involve them to discuss about their performance. So it's kind of one way that way. Because we are taking a feedback from team leaders about the team members. But then we prepare it and then we do it. But I feel it's a one way. And though they have a dialogue, at that time they can explain all of those things. But then a mindset gets prepared while you're preparing for the appraisals for those people. So yes, that's a challenge. Another if there's someone who's higher performing in the team, how we reward them into that area. Because that's a recognition that we want to give for the effort that they're doing. So when we talk about the salary part of it, how we pay them, that's actually creating a problem. Because now we have a team effort instead of an individual effort. And at the end of the day, that's a payment that they want to take home and they want to actually acknowledge for. So I think that's a challenge I would get an answer for. Thank you. Even though the party seems to be in the next room. Yeah, yeah. So my name is Ajay. I work in a company called IG, which is into financial trading. And I'm the team lead there. I'm also a bit of a stock trader as well. So I have a challenge while, you know, not much into performance appraisal, but much before that while setting goals to people. So what generally happens is we follow a culture where we have frequent discussions with people and it's not a end of year review where it's a big occasion or anything like that. We have it every two weeks and we have frequent discussions, informal discussions with people. So what ends up happening is that, you know, I do not like imposing goals on anyone. It just doesn't make sense. It's never going to happen. It's never going to work. So sometimes the personal goals of the person and the company objectives do not always match. I find that, you know, so if you end up asking someone, you know, what goals you want to set yourself, he comes up with a goal or he comes up with a goal which is, you know, sort of completely away from the company objective. So my, I would like to know how to handle such a situation, you know, what would be best so that he can, you know, do his personal goals as well as company goals. So it should be a good mix. So that's my challenge. Yeah, I do, I do end up doing that, but still there is always a thing where, say for example, the person wants to work in a technology that is not, nothing to do with our company. Maybe I can partner up the two of you or anyone who's interested in discussion later if you can just take the challenges and then we have plenty of time to get into the details. Thank you. My name is Rajesh. I work for society general. It's a 150-year-old bank. So we have traditional systems and things like that. What we did end up last year is kind of agreed that we will no longer enforce the traditional bell curve. So it is no longer enforced, but you have some systems and mechanisms in place that you don't go overboard. Yeah. So this was a proposal that I had made to the head of HR and, you know, the CEO and etc. And it kind of has started as the first step. What I would like to hear from you is what is the next step? What I've proposed is that we should go to a continuous evaluation process as well as not just the evaluation, the giving out the money, doing the promotions. All should also happen as and when it is appropriate and not depend on media or, you know, the annual appraisal cycles that we follow. So I want to hear if there are people who started doing it and how do you manage the whole budget thing? Because what tends to happen is if you don't utilize your budget, it vanishes. So I'd like to hear if, you know, there are people who are doing it and how do they manage? Anyone else or are we ready to start with the first session? We have someone else. Some of them are brainstorming some questions that we'd like to get answers to, I guess. There's some degree of skepticism about alternate performance management techniques that could work, especially given the global nature of teams and a lot of software companies having highly distributed teams. On the same lines, you know, people were wanted performance management techniques for distributed teams, but not with very socialistic tendencies. They didn't believe in everybody gets a flat 10 percent hike because it doesn't help to differentiate the good performance from the average performance. One other question, again, within this that came up is funding is generally limited and, you know, how do we ensure that there is, you know, I guess, fair recognition and not forced without having a rating system? So all kind of different aspects of the same big question around is there really anything else that would work for a big organization with distributed teams, but without socialistic tendencies? Thank you so much. So I think we've heard some really, really great questions and great challenges and I suggest that we start with the first session of 20 minutes. Either find the person who presented a great topic that you would like to discuss or stay at your table and pick a topic that you would like to do. 20 minutes and then we'll have a little recess and exchange ideas and then do the second round. Thank you. Don't be shy. I don't bite. Sorry. Then we're going to mix you up before the second round. Okay, please. Yeah, so my challenge was about the goal setting, you know, how to align personal goals with the company objectives. So I got a quick answer from that lady, which I think, you know, during the discussion there also came up. It's more to do with coaching. So, but with the caveat that, you know, it's going to take some time before you really coach them on to the right track. So your first few appraisals and stuff might go a little, you know, you might have to agree to their goals, even though, yeah. Yeah, so my concern was more about, you know, new recruits and when you bring on new recruits into the organization, you know, when you ask them, you know, what goals you want to set to yourself. Yeah, so they might not align that much to the company objectives because they just don't have the experience. So if you want to then go and even if you say coach them, etc., etc., they might not really understand what you're talking about and for that you will have to, you know, play a little nice for the first few appraisals but then, yeah, again, it's more about coaching and then bringing them on to the right track. So that is one of the things. One of the other things that Chris mentioned in our discussion, he was talking about having a set of framework. So basically we are trying to move away from sort of a checklist which says that, okay, you have met this, this, this and hence a grade. So we want to move away from that. So you sort of have a competency framework that, you know, we are expecting this from your role and what you have been doing and then, you know, though your personal goal is this, we still want you to work on something that fits into the competency framework. So that would be another thing. Another thing that one gentleman mentioned also was about, they have something called a survey cycles. So they, he has a team of around 70 to 80 people and what they do is they have teams among those 70 to 80 people and then each one sort of keeping a vision of the company in mind comes up with their own goal ideas towards the vision and then they have again a brainstorming session where they find out key areas where they want people to align. So these are some of the things that I got from, thanks. Thank you. What group would like to go next? Does anyone have anything to share? Good afternoon, everybody. My name is Raj and I'm from Philips. So let me start with saying that I'm an HR person so it qualifies me a bit to talk about this topic and I'm also HR transformational person who's helping Philips move to Agile. So we're doing some interesting work around creating the Agile culture. I'm also speaking the after tomorrow. On performance process itself, you know, one of the key piece, you know, that we realized was our traditional process of setting goals, appraisals and all of that is designed keeping traditional structures in mind, hierarchies in mind which are, which means the top leaders and the managers are now have the authority to evaluate, right? And you try to tweak anything but don't change that then it doesn't work. So you can have more frequent review mechanisms but if it's still the manager driving it then it's not in the true spirit of Agile. So what we are trying to do is how can we break this and how can we have the spirit of self-managed teams taking the complete ownership of the performance. So we have come up with few processes, few models around that. The first one is that the team takes the full ownership of performance. Both individual performance as well as the team performance, they are now, they have access to a lot of dashboards, metrics which is very external focused, looking at customer values and all of that. There are also mechanisms where they can give a very quick feedback to each other and the feedback part is very, very critical, okay? These are not very elaborate 360-degree feedback. This is like a quick stand-up where people just stand up, they give feedback to each other saying, you know, what made you great in the last program increment or last quarter, what stopped your greatness in the last quarter as effective person and the team then has a very good idea of what the other members in the team feel and when we say the team, this includes not just the scrum team but also the product owners, the RTEs, all of them are part of the team. And the traditional manager role has been changed to a coach, a performance coach and they are now the competence leaders or the cluster leaders who own a set of people in a same competence area and they act as performance coaches, okay? So the employee then goes to the coaches, they have a formal session every month and at the end of every quarter they discuss that these are my key achievements and some areas where I feel I need to improve on because these are the inputs that I'm getting. So as a coach I would like to work with you. So the relationship completely is now changed from the manager who is assisting and evaluating in a person, the owner is still the employee and the coach is really guiding and but it's a very rigorous process, it's not a very loose process because there's a clear goal set on the development so the entire process is more forward looking. So these are some piece of work that we are trying to do which is at this point looking very positive, okay? One big challenge that we, you know, ideally I would like to remove the entire rating piece and not have the rating because you know we are looking at this to build performance, yeah, let's see how that goes. Thank you so much. Anyone else? Okay, we've got about 20 more minutes left so we have two options, we can either do a second round, a quicker round of discussions or we can do a Q&A session. What do you prefer? Who would like to have another round in teams like another breakout session? And who would like to have Q&As? Okay, good. Okay, questions. And Q&A means anyone can ask questions and anyone can answer questions so it's not just going to be me. If anyone would like to come in. Okay, who would like to start with a question, please? Let me just give you the mic. So for every role we have some competencies and at the end of the year or for any of the period that we are evaluating them on is the time when we can say that okay, how you're doing on it but you didn't get any chance to work on those things. So I mean how to evaluate in the person doesn't get any chance to work on those things? No, I mean not all the competencies you'll get the chance to work on after a particular period. So like for example there's a competency that you get really get a chance to work on. For example, you're into the maintenance team and your competency says that you must have some good knowledge of database but then database is not much a role when we go into maintenance team. So you get the task all to do some tweaking into the functionalities and not much about the database. So how you evaluate such a in such situation? Because he must have worked upon his competencies, he must have read through things, he must have implemented proof of concepts but you can't say anything, you know, how well you are doing on that because you didn't get any chance to evaluate him. So if I understand you correctly there are two questions in there. Question one is how do you rate competencies and the question two is how do you ensure that you can actually build your competencies through the tasks that you're given that are actually coming up. And there obviously comes in that is a problem with our goal setting. The way we set goals at the beginning of the year or performance review, we don't know what's going to happen down the road in 12 months. So obviously we can't really set the goals for 12 months. So that's why we have actual iterative approach where we just have iterations and set goals for those iterations. But development goals are something different because our capability goals, they are about the individual. How do I grow as a person? How do I grow as a professional? And obviously you can't as a company the question is how do you do that? How do you grow people and do you do that for giving them goals? Or do you do that for giving them great challenging opportunities? And in the future HLHR, you're going to have HR career counselors who will work with you on your development. And if you see that you need to develop certain skills, but your current team does not give you that. It might be time to move to a different agile team. And that's where flexible workforce planning comes in. That HR must have the opportunity and the organization must have the opportunity to grow you as a person, as a professional, by moving you around the network if need be. So there are different things, but we would definitely not tie it to the performance management system the way it is today. Okay. Handling this, I was in Elkudil Lusin then and we were working on support. So like you said, right, we had our own team's goals also, which was actually driven by employees, the team members. And we identified, okay, for a support team, we probably need to understand the performance of KPIs. How does it impact us? Impact. Because we are getting, you know, issues around that. So we, seven people of seven of us, we sat together and found what is priority for us, right? And it is being driven by the goals that we say. Then every and the best thing is we had a list of it and every month we had a retrospective for those points also. So even if you're not working towards that, after a month, we know that we are not working on it. Probably we need to decide whether it's still valuable. We need to just strike it off or we just need to take it on priority. I think Ajail is still working there. Absolutely. And I love the point that you made that it's not just the manager who has to come top down and give you goals and make sure that you work on the right thing. It's also us as employees who have to say, okay, that works or that doesn't work. We have to change. And if we say that our people are intrinsically motivated, with that right also comes the obligation to actually give yourself a voice. And the talent management of the future is that you get yourself a voice. You don't wait for your organization for your manager to come to you and say, Hey, you're always doing a great job. Why are you not taking the next steps? It's going to be a dialogue, but you are going to be in a in a pole position as well as they say, Hey, I want solutions. What can you do? What can we work to do together? So it's going to be highly collaborative and not just a top down approach. Okay. Any other questions or comments? Yes. Actually, it's more I wanted to know your experience in helping a company move from this performance based approach to alternative performance. Like how was it done? And, you know, just your experience if you could share. We usually see two different approaches. One is that the company says performance management is not working for us. Let's do something. And we've already seen a lot of companies, they eliminate employee appraisals. And that has nothing to do whether they have agile work methods in place or not. And then we have the agile teams who come with another set of challenges because they already are on an iterative approach. They already have daily feedback, daily interaction. And of course, traditional performance management cannot keep up with that. And where they hit the road is usually at the end of the year when corporate HR or corporate comes in and says, okay, please tier teams, tier managers, we want you to do the appraisal and they say, come on, this doesn't work in our setting.  And then we start the dialogue with HR. But performance management is just one piece of the puzzle when we change agile HR. And we always find that when we discuss these topics that agile teams always try to fit their mindset within the given box. Like, how can we still be agile while having force ranking? And the approach to do that is that we say, okay, we have to think outside the box. What would we do if we didn't have corporate telling us how to do it? What would we do? And then we take that mindset and that solution and discuss how can we find a bridge to corporate HR to do that? And cross that bridge and then over time we can work on the corporate side of the business because there are some companies out there who say, okay, yes, we realize it doesn't work, be it for agile teams or any other of our teams. They change it or they say, okay, we need some time to change it throughout the organization. But how would we change it? And how can we still have the agile mindset for the agile teams and comply with the governance? But anyone who's interested, leave me your card and I can send you a business case on that, how to bridge that. But the important thing is if you come up with new solutions, think outside the box. Allow yourself to think outside the box. We can do the governance later and discuss with HR how we can implement it. But we need to know for ourselves, how would we do it if we could do it without the corporate constraints? Any other comments or questions? If not, I'm going to be around for the whole week. If you have any individual questions, please feel free to approach me or to contact me. Thank you so much. It was great working with you.


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