Today's episode of the Occupy Wall Street show is brought to you by MtGoxMTGox.com, Bitcoin Exchange. Hey, everybody, and welcome to the Occupy Wall Street show. Today is Sunday, October 30th, and we have had a crazy busy day and weekend, as always, down at Occupy Wall Street on the weekend, things pick up even more than on weekdays. So this is our second show, actually, we're taping today. Today we have an amazing guest with us. His name is Kevin Gastola, if I said that right. He is a blogger, writer-journalist for Fire Dog Lake and now an Occupy Wall Street participant in the movement. We have him with us via Skype all the way from St. Louis. So hey, Kevin, how you doing? Hey, how you doing? Good, good. So you're in St. Louis right now, right? Yep, yeah. All the people were walking out in the street celebrating the World Series about, you know, through the last few hours. Wow. Okay. I know. I've been so out of touch with everything going on outside of Occupy Wall Street stuff. So how long have you been writing for Fire Dog Lake? I began towards the end of June, maybe the last week, and first full month was July. Oh, okay. So then you got, did you get onto the beat, I guess, of Occupy Wall Street then as soon as the, as soon as this movement began? Right, yeah. So I was able to pick this up from day one and, you know, I guess it's a source of pride for me that, that I picked it up on day one and as, I'm one of the few blogs that have actually been following it since day one. Wow. Are you from New York? Is that right? No, I'm not from New York. I am based in Chicago. Oh, okay. But you just, you get around, right? You've been touring all the movements, all the Occupy? I actually came out to New York for a week. I spent about seven to 10 days out there and I hope to get back out there to see it again and what it's like in the colder month of November. Yeah. Boy, it was cold last night. We had this like flash blizzard and I was really worried about how people were going to react because it was suddenly snow. They were talking about 12 or 16 inches of snow, like boom, out of the blue and it was really freezing. And then the snow was melting and it was just a mess.  But apparently they've got the, you know, as much gear and equipment as they possibly can. They're trying to keep their tents up, you know, they're on tarps or they're looking for wooden crates, things like that to keep it off the ground and all the proper insulating materials to keep them warm. Luckily, the rest of the week, it's supposed to be 40. So it's just a weird fluke that just that last night. But it's a preview of things to come, obviously. So how many different occupies have you been visiting? I counted them up and I think I've gone to 10 by now. Wow. Which ones? Which 10 are you? Have you been to? Well, so the first one that I saw was, well, actually, the first one that I saw was Occupy Chicago, but they don't have a site and they've been struggling to get one. And then I saw Occupy DC in its early, early stages. What it is now, it's come a long way. And I saw Occupy Philly. I saw Occupy Boston right after they had been raided and had 100 or so people arrested by the police. And I also, then in the Midwest, I've been doing this tour and I've gotten to see Occupy Fort Wayne in Indiana and Occupy Columbus in Ohio. Occupy Bloomington, which is another city inside Indiana. And I've been to Louisville and Memphis now. And St. Louis, I'll see St. Louis tomorrow. Wow. I'm from Columbus, Ohio originally. Where is there? Occupy site. So they've set up in front of the state house. And one of the occupiers told me an interesting story, which is possibly worth sharing with your audience here, that they're actually on city property, even though they're in front of the state house where Governor Kasich would be inside. And so it's interesting because if they move 18 inches, then they become the state's problem. But the city has worked out something where they can stay on the sidewalk. Maybe they could do, like we have in New York City, alternate side parking, right? They could just one night, they could be on the state property and the next night they could move to the city. Well, here's the interesting thing. There's a granite statue of William McKinley that's right behind them. And all of a sudden, the state government decided that they needed to remodel the wooden statue. That it need to be refurbished or something. So they put barricades all around it. And they also told the occupiers suddenly that the flagpoles needed to be repainted.  So people can't move anywhere. They've got them all penned in on the sidewalk. Wow, yeah, they suddenly needed to refurbish and remodel them. They probably haven't, since they were put up, they probably haven't been maintained until now. But suddenly urgent, it's amazing to see how these places are, the authorities are reacting in their funny little ways. Like you probably heard in the news about how just the night before the blizzard, you know how long has it been going on now? I mean, it's over a month and pushing two months now. And suddenly, the night before this flash blizzard happened, the NYPD, along with the fire department of New York, decided they had to come in and confiscate the generators. It's suddenly a safety hazard.  It's just unbelievable. And they confiscate this equipment and there's absolutely no reason. There's no law. There's no authority or anything. And now they're working with, I think the National Lawyers Guild to try and petition to have their property returned. But they just confiscate their personal property for no reason, no authority. They just do it. They cited safety concerns, but that's nonsense, obviously. There's no safety issue whatsoever with that. So what have you noticed? So how long is this tour that you're doing? How long is it gonna, are you just gonna continue touring indefinitely or what? Right, well, so this is a leg that was planned out over the last 10 days. It came together really quickly and there's a lot of logistics to it, such as the fact that in each city, I'm meeting a member of the Machinists Union, the National Machinists Union here in the United States. And they're going down and we are approaching what people are doing in the city as if they're on strike. So when we go there, we actually have a flyer that we're handing out that gives tips on how to protest in the winter and what to do to stay warm. And part of the supplies, so we've got this thing with everybody who's a member of Fire Dog Lake and everyone who's a reader and a supporter was given the opportunity to donate to Fire Dog Lake and we've actually gotten more than $40,000 by now, I expect to actually go site to site and deliver supplies and specifically go up to people and ask what do you need to continue your occupation in through the winter so that we can keep these going long-term and then actually make those deliveries after they tell us what they would like to have then I go off to a store and I pick up those supplies and I bring them back before I leave the occupation. Wow, that is real grassroots, we're talking about in the field because it's true. I mean, people make donations and sometimes there's a little bit of a disconnect between what people actually need and what's actually getting donated and not understanding what really is needed. There's the immediate needs of the occupiers of course and there's the long-term needs too. So is Fire Dog Lake, tell me more about that, is it just a blog or is it an organization? Right, so it's a progressive news website but we also fund activism campaigns. So if you're employed by NPR this probably doesn't look to you like a legitimate news organization and we know that we've had a couple of members of NPR actually get fired for and they actually haven't even been supporting the Occupy Wall Street movement, they just were out there doing creative journalism is what I'll call it and then they got fired for being out there and actually seen with the occupiers but so Fire Dog Lake has this nice hybrid where we engage in activism, we promote activism campaigns. Just for example, another campaign that has gained notoriety before has to do with the legalization of marijuana and it's the Just Say Now campaign. So we have these campaigns and we tackle issues that are going on and insert the website into it and try to make a difference and call attention to things that are happening and I blog at the dissenter which is a civil liberties and a digital freedom issues blog and some people may be familiar with Fire Dog Lake and remember going there to read my predecessor Marcy Wheeler who blogged as Empty Wheel and did a lot of writing on civil liberties. Cool, all right. So how long has Fire Dog Lake been around? I think it started in the early 2000s right when the blogs really started becoming a part of the news economy and people were beginning to get their news. When Daily Coast started rising up when you had open, I believe it's called open left and other blogs that started to become popular blogs that people were reading and when you saw that we could take a story. So like we had the Scooter Libby trial, we were watching that minute by minute and logging it and really making a dent in the mainstream news media's narrative that they wanted to promote and that was where Fire Dog Lake really began to make its mark. Okay, fantastic. And so were you surprised? You know, when you first heard about Occupy Wall Street movement first of all, were you surprised and then did you think that it was going to continue to grow and pick up steam and like it has? Well, so I like everybody else saw the pitch. Well, I don't know if everybody else did. Okay, I was one of the few people in the news that was paying attention when ad busters put out their call for Occupy Wall Street. And I also am a full disclosure. I have a friend who was part of this website, US Day of Rage, that was on the steering committee and had done some organizing with the Occupy Wall Street people. And I had been following and keeping tabs and I knew this was coming up but I knew that there were a couple campaigns that were going to be launched. That we also had one group that went nowhere called Seize DC that wanted to do something in Washington. And we also had October 2011 which was a group of very seasoned activists who are well organized that wanted to do something. So I knew to look because the fall was going to be something and I started paying attention and they started on September 17 and I didn't actually think that you could go Occupy a park without getting kicked out by police. So I was very surprised on day one when I was writing and telling people what was going on and in the live blog, I had these messages about how 50 or so people had somehow gained permission to stay overnight, that the owner had said, okay, we're not going to force you to leave. You're talking about Liberty has a... Brookfield Properties. Yeah, yeah, Zuccotti Park, yeah. Brookfield Properties. And I should say that at this point, I'm of the opinion that that's what they said because as we're talking about it now, they haven't been evicted, they haven't been kicked out because I don't think that there's any recourse for actually evicting them. I don't think that the property owner, just for people who are following this story, the NYPD has played a role in sort of mediating and making sure that the Brookfield Properties doesn't kick them out because there's really nothing you can do. The way I understand it is that there's sort of like a quid pro quo here that they got a deal on the zoning codes and in return the park would be open 24-7 to the public. Right. Yeah, it's amazing to me. I think there's some kind of a weird irony to it that it's kind of like the privatization of a public space that's come back to kind of bite them in the butt because of this weird, quirky situation. It's private property owned by a private corporation, but yet they don't have permission, they don't have the authority to remove people because that's part of the zoning thing is that this has to be available to the public 24 hours a day, seven days a week, which even the city parks don't have 24-hour hours as far as I understand, they're most of them at least are closed at midnight or whatever. And so the police have no authority because it's technically private property, but by code it has to be available to the public 24 hours a day. It's a really interesting, perfect spot. And the fact that, you know, I don't know if you knew the, I believe I read that the GA voted to change the name of Zuccotti Park to back, I think to its original name of Liberty Square. So now everybody wants to, they want everyone to refer to it as Liberty Square because they've officially changed the name of it. I think it's, I just love that. I think it's really cool and very appropriate. So the, what have you noticed in all your travels from Occupy to Occupy, have you noticed like a common thread of issues or concerns as far as the needs of the occupiers? Or, you know. As far as the needs go, the things that people need in terms of supplies, and I think this would go for any occupation in your community is they need warm. You know, they need warm supplies, things like sleeping bags, they need hand warmers, toe warmers, gloves, hats. A lot of them are serious and they want to be there and they're aware that in order for them to continue to occupy the space, they have to have permanent occupiers, which means that you can't have people who show up in the middle of the day and then they go home at night. In order for the movement to last, you need people who are willing to stay overnight. And there are ways that you can make it so that people are able to camp out overnight in sub-zero temperatures. It's just a little bit tricky. It's not, you know, it's not ideal camping weather, but you can do it. And you can, and especially in the moment when people are paying attention and you're changing the dynamics of conversation, it's worthwhile to make the sacrifice and be out there overnight. I just thought of an idea for those who, you know, probably, there's probably 100 people for every one that actually camps out and stays down there and really is an on-site camper, there are probably 100, if not 1,000 people who are supporters, but they, you know, they can't for whatever reason, they're working and whatever. Maybe they have families and kids and jobs and things like that. They can't camp out, but they really are supporters. That's why you see in the evenings, it's the crowd swells and the weekends. It's just enormous. There's so many people down there. And, you know, we're included, that, you know, we work all day and everything, but we go down every time, basically whenever we're not working or sleeping, we're kind of down there and lending our support. And also we want to be involved in what's happening down there. But I just had this idea to be kind of cool if somebody set up some tents and made it like almost like a little tent hotel. So for people who just want to camp out one night, just to have the experience to say that you did it, you know, even if they can't do it permanently. Well, I would just say there's a similarity between all the occupations that I've been at because they are aware of the fact that people are, there's a number of people who don't go down to these occupies because they are working and they'll actually tell you that I'm here to represent those people. Those individuals who can't be down here to protest, I'm here saying the things that they would like to say, but can't because they work two to three jobs or whatever. Right, and there are, yeah, like I say, there's so many people that support what the occupiers are doing, but can't necessarily be down there. Well, they're working two or three jobs, you know, just to make ends meet and things like that. So people are busier than ever, but it doesn't mean that they're not supportive. So that's why it's great that there are all these ways that they can, that's why the donations are coming in, like crazy, you know, donations are flooding into these movements because people are like, oh, I want to be down there. I really want to support what you guys are doing and thank you, thank you, especially to the 20-somethings, I have to say. You know, I mean, I see people in their 60s and their 80s and everything, every age, but for sure it's the 20 to 25-year-olds who led the way, who really started this thing in the, you know, for the majority of it. And we really have to thank and praise those real patriots who started this thing. Everyone else is kind of following on, but it's all good, but you guys who are in that generation really, well, you know, your future is on the hook.  So it's, I really, we all really appreciate and honor all the people who have started this thing and now everybody's joining in. And people who can't, like I say, they're armchair supporters, they want to, whether they write a check or donate stuff, they've got a business that they can donate goods and products and things like that. It's all good. And also their online activities. People are tweeting and spreading news and videos and viral and Facebook and Twitter and stuff. There are a lot of ways that people can support just by spreading the word to all their friends and people they know. So in your, now when you travel to these different occupies, are you staying with occupiers or friends or? So logistically there are FDL members or people that FDL members know and they've all been hosting me. And we have an amazing logistical team. So people who are following me on Twitter or are reading the website can see that I'm out there fighting, but there are people who are working and you won't see them out there, so. What's your Twitter, if people want to follow you on Twitter? At KGestola, my last name, K-G-O-S-Z-T-O-L-I. Initial K, K-Gestola, G-O-S-Z-T-O-L-A. And of course, they can always find that probably that information is also on dissenter.firedoglake.com, right? Yes. Okay, cool. So let's see, have you noticed any major differences from one occupied to another? Like obviously there's the weather I suppose, but it pretty much the places you've been are all starting to get cold. Definitely places that get cold in the winter. I'm sure in California, San Diego, Florida, they're not gonna have the winter issues as bad. I was wondering if occupiers are gonna migrate to the south, like the birds when it gets cold. But have you noticed any differences, any major differences between the different occupy sites? Well, the one would be that some have had the ability to grow and become more permanent occupations than others. And I think depending on the way that the city responds to you, this is how it basically varies. So there's a huge difference between, unfortunately, occupied Columbus and let's say, occupied Bloomington, Indiana. Because they're able in Bloomington, Indiana, where Indiana University is at, they've taken over People's Park, which is not too far from the campus and they've been allowed to expand. And they've got, that's actually a park where homeless people usually go. They sort of integrated them in and they're using them to grow their numbers and they're really building a community and it's very amazing and very powerful and it's right in the middle of the heartland of the United States. But Columbus, the city has played games with them. The state of Ohio has played games with them and they can't take over a park place. They wanted to go into one area and it's privately owned, it's called Columbus Commons. They're not allowed to be there camping. They tried to take it over and 60 people were there and then the police showed up five minutes later and kicked them out. And so because of the struggle, they're only about five or six strong, really. And they have a couple tents, but they're not allowed to camp. They're not really supposed to be in those tents because wink, wink, they're, they don't have a camping permit. Yeah, yeah, I mean, these marches and things that happen every weekend here in New York, they don't have a permit to protest, but there are the rules, there are the park rules, there are the laws and all that, city ordinances. But then there's the US Constitution and the fact is that according to the constitution, we have that right to a free assembly and the public owns the public spaces. So, but yeah, when there are rules, just like in Oakland, Mayor Kwan, even after the brutal police attack of the Marine Vet, Scott Olson and all that jazz, two or three days later when she apologized, she still said, the park is there for free speech during free speech hours, which are something like 8 a.m. to 10 p.m.  So, but you're right, I mean, when there are rules in place like that, you can't take on the police when there's only 60 people. But on the other hand, if you have, you know, three, four, five, six, 8,000 people, then things change. So, that's like what we saw at Liberty Square with Bloomberg threatening to basically to evict everybody in the park. That was a real, real heated time when, you know, there's this amazing parade of police force they were showing off all this police power. But when it came down to it, there was so much media and so many citizens flocked in to be there and to be present that they really literally would have had to arrest thousands and thousands of people suddenly Bloomberg back down. And that's what it takes, I think, to occupy a place against the rules that it's gonna take a mass show of people if there are enough people. And also, public approval. You know, if they see 70% or 50, 60% of public approval for what they're doing, all of a sudden these politicians suddenly back down and go, okay, well, maybe we can bend the rules a little bit. So, it's interesting. Have you heard any talk about occupying indoor spaces? Well, so I've heard a little chatter about the whole thing of possibly buying storefront property in New York City. I don't know if you've heard any chatter in Liberty Park, because you are in New York. But I know that there are some people who are aware that in order to keep things going, they might have to do sort of like shifts. And so, some people would still stay in the park and then they would have space indoors and they could rotate people and after you were warm for a while, you'd come back out and you'd camp in the park. Mm-hmm. I have not, I mean, I had heard about just rumors of renting kitchen space, especially for the kitchen because last I heard it maybe more now, but the last number I heard was they were serving more than 2,000 meals a day. So, I had heard that they were checking into possibly leasing some kitchen space for the kitchen, but I had not heard about what you're talking about. But I'm sure that doesn't mean it's not going on. There's so much more going on. That's the thing that the mainstream media, of course, but really all the media that goes down to the park, Liberty Square, they don't really realize that what they see there in the campers and everything that's happening on site is just really a sampling. It's like the tip of the iceberg of actually what's going on in the Occupy movement because what's really happening is the working groups and sometimes they meet at the park, but most of the time they don't. They're meeting in all other various venues and there are so many meetings every day. People are actually missing meetings because there's too many meetings. They're like overlapping. It's crazy what's happening. There's so much more going on than what meets the eye down there at the park. So what was the point of that? Oh, the things maybe going on that we don't know of, but I'm sure things are going on that we don't know about. Although we try and here, we try and stay informed about what's happening just to know who to bring on the show and interesting things to discuss. And that's what we want to bring to you. It's kind of the inside scoop on what's happening in all the various working groups and let people speak for themselves without the censorship of the corporate media in the middle. But no, I hadn't heard of that. Storefront space, I'm not sure how that would work, but I think it's a good idea, whether it's, I don't know if they could do, really it sounds like they would need, if they want people to rotate in and come in and get warm or maybe even sleep, they might actually need to have some kind of residential space or a deal of a block of rooms at a hotel or something like that. Interesting idea though. I mean, I guess the idea is that they've gotten so many donations that they might actually be able to afford buying some space down there and that they could maybe have an Occupy Wall Street storefront right on the back of Wall Street. Yeah, yeah, that would be cool. It would be cool if they have some kind of space. I mean, there are a lot of vacant spaces with the economy the way it is. But yeah, that would be cool because they could have a, if they had a storefront situation, they could really have an internet infrastructure, electricity, charging station, all kinds of great distribution. Like right now, is it, what is it, the teachers union amalgamated? They actually have donated the use of space for storage of donations and we toured it today. You'll see in the next episode, we shot video down there. They have, it's almost like a mass warehouse of donated sleeping bags and tents and coats and food stuffs and all kinds of stuff. It's just amazing, amazing facility and all these volunteers organizing and sorting the stuff. So I mean, it's much, much bigger scale than I had imagined until I saw it with my first hand. But yeah, you're right. If they had sort of a storefront, they could actually like receive people, have the information, have a permanent information desk and be a lot more organized. And if they had some sort of facility where people could come in and even, I don't know, maybe have those bunks like they have at the Tokyo airport where people could come in and sleep for a couple of hours at a time or something like that, rotate people in, let them get warm and then go back out. Might be a good idea. But I've also heard rumors of talking about occupying indoor publicly owned spaces. So let's talk about that in a second, but I wanna take a break really quick. It's a good point to thank our sponsor because of course, without our sponsors, we wouldn't be able to be here to bring you this. So I wanna thank Mt. Gox. Mt. Gox is mtgox.com. If you haven't heard of it, Bitcoin is the future of money. It's a completely decentralized open source software project. So it's a new currency, but what's really cool and it really ties in actually with the Occupy Wall Street movement and all of these ideas is that it is not issued by any bank or government, corporation, website, group of guys, nothing like that. It's completely decentralized. So it's as decentralized and independent as the internet itself. It's called Bitcoin. So Bitcoin is B-I-T-C-O-I-N. And if you wanna learn more about Bitcoin, we actually, I created a website called bitcoinme.com. Bitcoinme.com, check that out. And Mt. Gox is the number one Bitcoin exchange. So you can actually go to mtgox.com from the comfort of your home, whatever, and you can actually buy Bitcoins for dollars or 16 other currencies. You can buy Bitcoins for cash or sell Bitcoins for currency. This online automated exchange for very, very reasonable price fees, I don't know, less than 1% for sure. And like I say, 16 currencies they deal with, it's 24 seven automated and they have more than 90% market share. So that's Mt. Gox.com, mtgox.com. We thank them for sponsoring the Bitcoin show and the Occupy Wall Street show. So all right, we're back, Kevin. And are you there? Okay, cool. So that's all right. So yeah, we had heard some rumors today about the possibility of occupying some indoor public spaces because obviously there are some, especially in New York, there's some massive indoor public spaces and why not? The thing about indoor spaces is they almost always have closing hours where they're only open from hour A to B. But if there are, somebody said that in Wisconsin, they occupied, was it the state house? Isn't that what happened in Wisconsin? Are you aware about that? This would have been during the uprising earlier on. Exactly. And I think that's what they did there. They occupied the state house and why not? I mean, if there are enough people and there's enough support, what difference is that between that and the public park? If you have enough people, enough support and just really, literally thousands and thousands of people there, all for the wanting the same thing and the public support. It seems like they would back down, but that would be real interesting. I have a feeling there might be some real serious confrontation there, especially in an indoor place because they can, but then again, they can do that anywhere. I was gonna say they could trap you in like they did on the Brooklyn Bridge, lock you in and then arrest people one by one. And that's the thing. If they don't have enough public opinion, the support of the public, then they can and probably will do that. But it depends. If we reach the hearts and minds of the public and there's enough support, that's when suddenly they just back down and go, oh, okay, well, what do you think? What do you think the chances of that happening are in these winter locations? I mean, it's a good idea and I think, but I actually think that, as much as people doubt the fact that people are gonna be out there in the winter, I think there's a huge potential that people actually find a way to stay outdoors. So I don't know if the contingency of being indoors yet is an actually necessary plan to be considering, but if we're talking about taking over a state capital building, I don't know if they would do it in Wisconsin and I don't know if they would do it because one, Scott Walker has put a lot of restrictions on being in the capital building I think. After the uprisings that happened state to state in March and April, I believe that there might be new rules in a lot of these locations. So I don't know how many people would actually ever be able to get into the buildings. So it's very complex. Yeah, for sure no sleeping bags or tents or generators, but yeah, it does seem like that. Yeah, I wondered how would they do that? I mean, without actually like storming the place, they would have to just go in one by one by one until they were, I guess the only way to do that would be is if they weren't either. There's two ways, I suppose probably, either they're not expecting it at all and people just sort of like flood in, kind of like one of those, what do they call that, like an impromptu, yeah, like a flash, what is it? Flash mob, where everybody just kind of like comes in all at once and it's unexpected or they just storm the building, which is obviously a very dangerous situation, but you think that these, you think that the occupiers can storm the weather through the worst winter has to come? Yeah, I mean, I think that they are going to be able to get donations and I think that they're going to be able to find some way to stay out in some of these places. And I don't know if it's gonna actually be like this or not, but I wonder if the warmer weather, there's gonna be these occupations and that's where you're going to see a greater force from cities and police that are trying to get them to go away. And then maybe in the Midwest and the East Coast or the Northeastern United States and the Northwest, maybe you'll see the cities aren't actually really doing anything to get rid of these occupies because they know that or they expect that people are gonna be frozen out and just go home. I think that's what they expect. I have a feeling, I've been thinking and I haven't said it much, but I've been thinking that that's probably what Bloomberg is waiting for is that Mother Nature is gonna take care of this, that they're just gonna be frozen out, but I think they have some surprises in store because people are really, really upset. Enough is enough. They've had enough and this thing seems to just be growing, gaining more and more in momentum. And as much as they do to, against it, they don't realize that every single act that they commit against it is just kerosene. They're putting on the fire, making it worse. The smartest thing I've ever said, if I were the other side, I would just ignore it and absolutely say, let them do whatever they want because that's the best thing they can do. The more they try to stop it, like bringing in all these police forces and their SWAT gear and just absurd overreaction, it's just fueling it. It seems like they come out 100 times, well at least 10 times more people show up every time they do something crazy like that. Yes, yeah. I mean, that's the way I was in Times Square the day that they had their convergence on October 15th. Yeah, I was there. And one of the things that I realized is I was standing there and I saw police building up at, I believe it was 46th and Times Square, where that was one of the intersections that had major confrontations. And one of the things that I realized was the more they build up, the more people head over to the build up to see what's going on. What's going on, right. And the more people become part of the confrontation and are in the way. And I shot video, I was there and I was actually standing at a barricade that started shaking and it almost fell on me. And I was pretty certain that the police were going to be making a move into the crowd. And I was watching the legal observers with the green hats with the National Lawyers Guild. And I asked them, they can't do anything to us because they haven't ordered us to disperse or anything. And he said, well, technically, they can do whatever they want. I mean, right now they can declare you an unlawful presence or whatever and then you could just start be arrested one by one. So that's the thing, like what you say, the more people, the more police they put out there, the more attention they draw to the movement. Right. I know I saw that you saw in Oakland, I saw the videos in Oakland on YouTube and stuff about, you know, the police had a bullhorn and they're announcing, you are having an unlawful assembly. And it's just like, what is that? What is an unlawful assembly? It's like in a public place, it's just unbelievable. According to who's laws, where are they pulling this stuff? Do they have any training whatsoever in actual law? And the biggest dilemma for these city governments and or in some cases state governments that no longer want to tolerate these people is that they let them be in the space for days in some cases, weeks. And then all of a sudden they seem to say, oh, wait, you're not supposed to be out here anymore. And it's just, well, what were they doing before? Right, right, exactly. What were they doing?    Like it's almost like they create the pressure cooker, they turn up the heat and condense it until it does become unruly, of course. Like the Brooklyn Bridge thing, you know, come on in. On one end, they block it off. They're there hours before anyone else with all these buses that the whole thing was planned.  On the other end, they're like, come on in. I'll, you know, escort you right on in until everybody's in, seal it off, and then arrest everybody. And they think they're so clever, no one will figure out that that was all planned. Yeah. Yeah, and then the other thing at Times Square, from what I understand, they were actually like barricading them out, you know, and saying, no, you couldn't enter or leave. You had to be in this little space.  Like it's a war. Well, and then in Oakland, they actually are firing, just literally firing on innocent people. Like it really is a war with their riot gear on. And they're like, what? There's no riot here except for the police. Yeah, well, so I actually saw the march that had been going, you know, it left Washington Square on that day and it marched all the way to Times Square. I saw the commander, a police commander, actually take the march from Broadway, which is further away from the Times Square area. And then they came around and they came down 46 and they brought people up to the barricades where they were eventually going to have to ask people to disperse.  That's the thing is like the issue becomes crowd control. And I understand it. You want to reopen it up to traffic and you want people to be able to move in the space after a number of hours.  We weren't going to occupy Times Square and stay there overnight. We were just coming down to make the presence known. But, you know, when they stay there, it almost becomes an occupation. Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. It's just so bizarre how they do that. They corraling people in and it's, you know, it's just their whole tactic is usually just to fear and intimidation. Let's just intimidate them so that they're afraid and all that. But it seems to backfire. Whatever they do, it seems to backfire. You're right. If the police didn't even show up, it probably wouldn't have lasted as long. I got there late actually that night. I was, I got there toward the end of it because I was here. And I saw the tail end of what happened in Times Square. And then I was there when everybody left and went back to Washington Square. I was there pretty much till the end until they, to right before they arrested the people that wouldn't leave at the curfew. So, do you think that all the occupies have the same determination to, that they're in this for the long haul, the ones that you visited? If they have a camp, I think that it's really easy. I think as it gets to be November, the cities that haven't been able to establish a space are probably gonna peter out. You do have some really dedicated Americans that are coming out and trying to protest pretty much 12 hours, 12 to 16 hours a day.  And I think that those are probably going to become less, you're not really gonna be reading about or hearing about demonstrations on Twitter from those cities. But the places that have been able to get up in campments, which are the ones that I am going around donating supplies to, I think that they are going to, they have a huge potential to last, I'll say at least into December. I believe that many of the ones that I visited have great potential to be there come December. Now, the curious thing that I wonder is if the city's going to use any sort of winter weather advisories or use some kind of city codes that can be used and enforced during winter if they're going to use those against people who are in the public space. Snow emergency. Yeah. Yeah, who knows. If the bottom line is, it's like everything else. If they think they can get away with it, they'll use any rule under the sun. They'll use a law from the Civil War era. If they can pull one out of their, you know what? I mean, they will use it if they think they can get away with it. If they don't think they can get away with it because public opinion is too supportive, then they won't. It's just that's what the bottom line is. It seems like, you know, they'll just use any old ordinance. Like, well, we need to clean the park. You know, they'll use absolutely any, they'll make one up if there isn't a rule.  Exactly. To pull you out. Yeah. If you're using a bandana to be an anonymous protester, which, you know, I think as a person who's demonstrating or assembling publicly, you should have the right to go out and be anonymous. Absolutely.  And they're out in public. Sure. It's like unbelievable. But like, yeah. And the police are not anonymous with their riot gear masks. Yeah. That's, it seems like they break two laws for everyone they try and protect us from. It's crazy. So, now don't you think though that even those smaller occupations where they're, you know, 10, 12 hours a day and then they go home, they could feel empowered by the success of the entire movement overall. And if more and more people show up and the numbers swell, even at those daytime, we'll call them daylight hour occupations, that if the numbers get large enough, then they'll have the stamina and the power, the people power to actually take over a place, to find a place and occupy it. Certainly. I hope I'm wrong, that I don't wanna see these people quit. I'd like to see people, I mean, like Chicago being one of the cities that people keep trying to find some place that they could go and not be arrested. And some place where they don't have to engage in civil disobedience, to send a message to the city that they think they have a right to occupy a public park, just like others people in other cities across the United States are able to do. I think one of the key things here that people have to understand is what the occupiers should be doing and the way they should be framing it. And my opinion is that when they go out and get arrested, they are trying to create a political liability for the city government or the state government and make people who are in that community ask, why won't you allow people to be out peacefully assembling?  Nobody is trying to promote violence. Nobody is, you know, these aren't love ends. People aren't trading drugs or anything. It's very benign and people should be allowed to be out there. Right, why is the city of New York arresting and trapping on the Brooklyn Bridge, 780 people and then arresting them for a peaceful protest with non-violent? Yeah, that's when the corporate owned media finally actually started taking notice, by the way. You notice that? And the mass arrest is what really pulled the trigger and then all of a sudden, the media is noticing it and then the public is like, wait a minute, what's up? Why is the city arresting hundreds and hundreds of people for a peaceful protest? That raises questions that they don't want asked. So it's true, I mean, people are actually doing, they're supporting the cause by getting arrested. A lot of people, they're proud to be arrested for civil disobedience for that, right? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, and now you've seen, I think this is kind of fascinating of a poll number that actually jumped like 20% for the New York Times. I think it was down around like 64 or 65% and then the New York Times took the poll again like a few days ago and it was up at like 84% of people supporting the Occupy, Wall Street protesters being out. I think that's really telling of sort of what this whole movement has ignited because usually at a protest like this, you'd think people would get sick and tired of them being out there, but it seems that the New Yorkers are becoming more, they're warming up to the fact that these people aren't going to go away and they're starting to really consider how they could influence change. I didn't see that poll, that was asked of New Yorkers? I mean, I think the New York Times did the poll and it was a second poll. They had already pulled people before and the poll actually went up. Was it like nationwide poll though or just New Yorkers? Oh, I don't know. Sorry, I don't know the methodology. But it was 80% supported. Yeah, but all I can say is generically speaking. So regardless of whether they're in New York or not, I usually think that, I think stereotypically people expect that Americans get tired of people being out there because they're like, oh, what do you expect to do? Are you going to really accomplish anything? But I think that that's the media that promotes that and promotes people who are sharing that sort of idea. I think that the people who are in Liberty Park are starting to win people over to their new way of organizing and the way that they're trying to do things. And the whole leaderless thing has gotten a bad rap from the media. But I think as they explain themselves and they try to beat back some of the myths, people really, they appreciate it because it feels genuine and it's very different from the rotten top 1% top down organizing that the whole population here in America is subjected to. Exactly, that's what we're going to try and do. We're trying to do here with this show is to educate America and the world what this movement's really about and how it functions. That's why our next episode, you're going to love it because it's about, it's exactly that, facilitation. I had, I said the other day, I was in the elevator in the building where we live and I had my Occupy Wall Street signs with me. Or no, it wasn't, it was just a t-shirt I had on, right? 99%. Anyway, some people in the elevator neighbors apparently said, so how's that going? And I said, great, have you heard the news? It's like expanding like crazy. And they're like, typically they were saying, but what I don't understand is what exactly do they want? What are the demands? If you had a nickel for every time, the media has asked, but what did they want? It was an elevator. So I said, well, in one word, they want democracy. What I think that if I'm, this is my opinion anyway, is that what the movement really wants is what we thought we had all along in this country, which was freedom, liberty, and democracy, but real democracy, which we haven't had in, what, a hundred years maybe. Since the, at least since 1913, when the Federal Reserve was created. But real representative democracy so that people really have a voice. So that's the part, the facilitation working group is it's called, where they have all these practices to facilitate actual democracy, where people's voices are actually heard. That is really, really interesting and fascinating to me. And that's one of the things we're gonna feature and highlight. In fact, you'll see in the next episodes, be sure in episode four, make sure you catch that. That's gonna be really good. We wanna highlight that and teach people that no, it's not just people camping out. It's not just people trying to make a point. It's actually work happening. What are the demands? Well, we're making the list. The problems are not so simple. They're complex by design. Because of course, if you're in the 1% or the 1% of the 1% that owns the 1%, it's a pyramid all the way down. You make things one level of complexity and then you make it another two levels of complexity and all of a sudden, people are confused. People are busy, they've got two or three jobs and they've got a life to live and if you mask things with levels of complexity, then there's a mystery and nobody, everybody knows they're getting screwed, but they don't exactly know who's screwing them. It's like coming home and you know your things are missing. Somebody's stealing your stuff, but you just don't know who or how it's happening, right? Everybody kind of has, for many, many, many years, my whole life, people have kind of known that somehow they're getting screwed, but they just don't really understand exactly how. Everybody has their theories, but that's I think why as more and more of the real story of the Occupy Movement is getting out, the American public is going, that resonates with me, hey, I agree with them, they're right, you know? I mean, these people who are out there, there's a level of maturity to what people are doing and there's patience to it that I think on one level might be a little bit frightening to Americans because they're not really sure what to do and it's new. I mean, our leaders, our representatives, historically speaking at the top of the country here in Congress and in the executive branch of government, we typically haven't had such an opportunity where we could be part of the decision-making process and that's essentially what this whole movement is pushing up against. They're saying, well, that hasn't worked. The people need to be part of that conversation. There needs to be more direct democracy in the country and I think as people see what they are doing and realize that this is something that really wants to have real and lasting change and that's why it isn't as obvious what they want because they don't just walk out there and make demands. They're not the Tea Party. They didn't offer some contract from America with a list of things that they're going to push in Congress and with an agenda that they're going to get congressional leaders to run with and get elected on as a platform. They want to stay in this public space where people can see them on a daily basis, invite people in and have a conversation, really open, anybody can be a part of it. If you don't like what you're, I think one last thing here, people who don't like what the movement is doing, I always find it weird that they won't go down to the square and make that known to people in the General Assembly because right now if you feel that these people are dangerous or aren't going to do what you think this movement should do, you can go down there and you can share your opinion with people. This is a very open movement and I think they would listen to you if you had some sort of constructive criticism to offer but to just sit there on Twitter and snark and say all these weird things about what you don't like and write blog posts like that, that's just, you know, I have to tune that out. That's very elitist. Absolutely, I couldn't agree with you more. Even on the listserv, I mean in the movement, people keep in touch with listserv mailing lists and there even as recently as yesterday someone was complaining about how something was done and the way I phrase it is it's like writing a complaint letter and then not mailing it.  One of the fundamental things about this is that every voice is equal. Everybody's voice will be heard. If you speak up and you follow the procedure and all that, your voice is just as important as anybody else's and your message will be heard and your voice could be the one that makes the difference in the direction that they go. So, you know, if you care enough to troll online and Twitter and even mailing lists and all that stuff and you're, you know, whatever, blah, blah, blah, complain, complain, complain but really it's just all hot air unless you get your butt down there and join the working group and make a difference.  Like, you have no say, sorry.  That's the beauty of direct democracy and it's something that we've kind of all thought that we had all along through kind of Hollywood, you know, America, Land of the Free and all that which we, you know, it's just good. It's good that we have these values. It's sad that we didn't really have the country we thought we did but we're bringing it back. We're reclaiming our country and we're out of time already. I can't believe it. Can you believe it's been an hour? So, I definitely want to thank you, Kevin and I want to keep in touch with you and have you, you know, back on again and give us an update as you continue your travels from Occupy, a King Campment to Occupy Encampment all over.  After St. Louis, I'm going to be in Des Moines, Iowa. Ah, great. Okay, so we'll find you online at dissenter.firedoglake.com and Kevin Gastola, is that right? Yeah. Yes, yes. Great, Kevin. Thanks so much for joining us and like I said, we're out of time but we appreciate it so much and we'll see you guys tomorrow. All right. Thank you. And don't remember, I mean, don't forget what we hold in our hearts and minds grows. So, be careful what you hold there. Everyone has their own unique area of brilliance so let your light shine. We'll see you tomorrow. My check, my check, my check, my check, my check, my check. The future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members. System must protect our...


The question is that amendment 11958.1, in the name of Brian Whittle, which seeks to amend motion 11958 in the name of Richard Lochhead, on Scotland's technology nation, should be agreed and members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed. Paol Sweeney, for a point of order. Paol Sweeney, for a point of order. Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will vote yes. Thank you, Mr Sweeney, for ensuring that that is recorded. Y rheswllt o'r ffwrdd yn ymgyrch, 11958.1, yn y rhai Bryn Whittle, yn ymgyrch, yes 44, no 67, there were two abstentions—excuse me a moment—for clarity. Y rheswllt o'r ffwrdd yn ymgyrch, 11958.1, yn ymgyrch, yes 44, no 66, there were two abstentions, the amendment is therefore not agreed. The next question is that amendment 11958.2, in the name of Daniel Johnson, which seeks to amend motion 11958 in the name of Richard Lochhead, on Scotland as a technology nation, be agreed. Are we all agreed? The Parliament is not agreed, therefore it will move to a vote and members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed. The result of the vote on amendment number 11958.2, in the name of Daniel Johnson, is yes 50, no 64, there were no abstentions, the amendment is therefore not agreed. The final question is that motion 11958, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on Scotland as a technology nation, be agreed. Are we all agreed? The motion is therefore agreed. That concludes decision time and I close this meeting.


There is this International Narcotic Control Board which is monitoring the conventions and it criticizes very harshly the Uruguay and Colorado model. What would you comment? I think that those experiences have to be looked, analyzed, give them time and see the results on a scientific basis. I think that, say, 100 percent yes or 100 percent no is a big mistake. There is a reality which has to be understood. In those experiences or the experiments, whatever the word you prefer, they have to be analyzed and evaluated. Let's wait and see.


Hi radio fans welcome to behind the mic from otrpodcast.com. I'm your host Austin Vock and on this podcast we explore the history behind many of old-time radio's greatest performances. We jump around from series to series picking one episode each week and together we learn about the actors, producers, sponsors and more before listening to that full episode as it was originally broadcast. If you have feedback for today's show or have a great idea for a future podcast please send me an email at contact at otrpodcast.com. You can also send me a voice message by clicking the link in the show notes or if you're watching this on YouTube just leave a comment down below. Today's episode will begin after a brief message from our sponsor. On July 7th 1947 CBS Radio aired the very first episode of Escape, a high-adventure anthology series featuring a new story and different set of characters in each episode. Many stories both originals and adaptations involved a protagonist in dire life or death straits and the series featured more science fiction and supernatural tales than other popular shows of the time like Suspense. Despite becoming one of the most popular series of its genre it did not have a regular sponsor and was subjected to frequent schedule shifts and lower production budgets during its seven-year run. Today's episode is the fourth in the series and was originally broadcast on July 28th 1947. The same day English swimmer Tom Blower completed the first swimming of the North Channel between Ireland and Scotland achieving the feat in 15 hours and 26 minutes. Please enjoy Typhoon from Escape. Escape. Escape tonight for the China Seas in Typhoon. The Columbia Broadcasting System and its affiliated stations presents Escape, a new series of programs of which this the fourth is Typhoon by Joseph Conrad produced and directed by William M. Robeson. Of all the great authors who wrote of the sea, none so captured the wonder and the horror of it as did Joseph Conrad. Tonight we escape to the China Seas in his great story Typhoon. Told in the words of a certain Mr. Jukes, chief mate of the China co-steamer Nan Shan, a young man of very remarkable perceptions. I've been sailing the China Sea long enough to see some strange and terrible things but nothing as bad as that was. I got himself forgot us and the whole blinking universe set out to do us in that night. It was the, but that comes later. I guess you can't really understand what happened on board the Nan Shan without knowing something about our skipper, Captain Mcwhir.  May I tagged him right off? First day he came aboard to take command. In Liverpool it was and Mr. Siggs, who was one of the owners, was showing him around the deck. It is no more modern ship afloat. I might say again that you've come to us very highly recommended Captain Mcwhir. We've a great deal of confidence in you. Thank you Mr. Siggs. She's a brand new ship and a good ship. There's no reason why you shouldn't continue in command of her as long as you like. Well that's fine. She'll be the smartest thing afloat in the Chinese trade. Why, she's put together like a Swiss watch, precision built from stem to stern. Wait, just a minute Mr. Siggs. What is it? That lock. Lock? What lock? Here on the cabin door. What about it? You'll notice how it's been set in the frame, somewhat cocked at an angle. The ship starts rolling a bit and the first thing you know it snaps open and leaves the door swinging. It really should be fixed Mr. Siggs. That's Captain Mcwhir. The best birth he'd ever had. New command of brand new ship. When instead of pinching himself to see if he's awake he complains about a lock on the cabin door. See what I mean? Captain Mcwhir, I see what you mean. I'll have it attended to right away. I think you'll do all right. Thank you Mr. Siggs. Well everybody knows what the China coast is. You haul out of Bangkok for a quick run up to Singapore and then shove off for Hong Kong. Two days ashore, you do it all over again. Three years of it. Three years of heat, smells, weather, copra, silk and tea. Alone in there somewhere the owners decided to transfer the ship's registry to the Siamese flag. Don't ask me why. They just did that's all. Anyway I can tell you I didn't like it. When you grow up under the Union Jack you figure to go on sailing under it. Not that the skipper of course could understand that kind of a feeling. Oh no.  Hi. What is that Mr. Jukes? They just sent the new flag out from shore sir. Here it is. Oh fine fine. Unroll it. Let's have a look. Oh yes. In my opinion sir it's a queer kind of flag for a man to sail under. Oh and what's the matter with it? Well it just looks queer to me that's all. Well now let's see. A white elephant on a red field. Just a minute. I'll look it up in the book. Here we are. Siam. White elephant on a field of bright red. Length exactly twice the breadth. So there's nothing wrong with this flag Mr. Jukes. Oh isn't there? Not a thing. I hardly thought there could be. After all these people ought to know how to make their own flag. It stands to reason. Does it now? You must have it confused with some other flag Mr. Jukes. Well all I can say is. Of course you'll have to take care of the seamen. Don't hoist the elephant upside down. That is before they're quite used to. I presume it might be taken for a signal of distress. And in that case well the way I see it that elephant stands for something like the nature of a Union Jack in the British flag. Oh you think so. Well it's like a bloomer Noah's Ark. That's what it is. Mr. Jukes. I'm sorry sir. I can't see where the color of a flag could any wise effects the navigation of a ship. I alright sir I'll instruct the hands. It'd certainly be a most distressful sight to see that elephant hoisted upside down. Well that was Captain Mcwhirer.  And that's the skipper we had to sail under on the maddest wildest trip that any coaster ever took. We were loading out in Singapore. Half the cargo had already come aboard. The sun was blazing and the smoke from our stacks hung over the decks like a blanket. The Nanshans winches puffed away aft. Cargo chains creaked and clattered across the comings. I was in the way supervising the loading when Mr. Rout the chief engineer came up. Hey there Jukes. What's going on down there on the dock. Looks like a bloomin' army. I don't know Mr. Rout. Must be a mob of coollies on the move. Here comes a captain. Could be some of his door. Hi sir. Keep the port between the clear of cargo. There'll be two hundred coollies coming aboard and we'll plan to bunk them down there. Good lord where are they bound. We'll have to put in there this trip. Yeah but we're not fixed to handle passengers sir. They'll bring supplies aboard with them. Every man's got a comfort wood chest so you'll have to nail deck buttons down there to keep them from sliding. Yes sir. I'll see to it. I've all been working on a plantation north somewhere. Two year contract. They're dying to get home. I wouldn't have been quite right to turn them down. You may as well start them coming aboard Mr. Jukes. All right sir. Olly number one boy Olly same. Listen you're savvy huh. Olly fellow catch him here top side catch him step step bottom side Olly time chop chop. Single file now one fellow one time all the time. What do you suppose they carry in those boxes.   Murderers. Oh come now Mr. Jukes one or two of them may be but in the main I'd say they're honest workmen have to be to stick out a two year contract on one of these plantations. Just the same sir we better not take any chances. Oh I checked the lading weights carefully Mr. Jukes. We can carry them without any overloading at all. I mean that all right sir I'd better go hide the silverware in the office's mess. He's a hard lad to understand sometimes. I could say I had a premonition right then and I wouldn't be lying. Anyway that's how it started. At the hottest time of the year two hundred half civilized Cooley's aboard a captain with no more imagination than you could stick in your ear we steamed out from Singapore and laid a course for the port of Fuchao. Jukes I don't like it. I don't like it a bit. What don't you like about it Mr. Ron? The looks of things. Something ominous about it. Oh there's a bit of a swell running all right. It's not a breath of wind. It's uncommonly hot that's all. It gives a man with jumps. You're as bad as the second mate.  That's the old man. I'll see you later. Keep your steam up Mr. Ron. Were you calling me captain? I was Mr. Jukes. What was all the long conversation with Mr. Rout? Oh I'd find nothing much sir. I didn't see any harm in talking a bit. I'm not on watch you know. Oh no no nothing wrong with it. Nothing at all. I just wondered what you could find to talk about. Well different things I don't know. I've seen people on shore. Sit around the table and talk for two or three hours. I never could understand it. It's just conversation that's all about nothing in particular. Seems pretty silly. Well you've noticed the barometer no doubt. Yes sir it's dropping. Falling fast. Quite low now. Take a look. I'll say it's dropping. Bad time of the year for that sort of thing. Very bad. Anything you want me to do sir?  Hey Mr. Jukes. Yes sir. Well that's all. Just thought you ought to know about it that's all. Carry on sir carry on. It's a heavy one all right mate. Them coolies must be having a time of it down below. Lucky for them the old girl rolls easier than any ship I've ever seen. You just wait. Oh you think we may be in for it huh. Oh no. I don't think anything. You're not going to make a fool out of me that way Mr. Jukes. I didn't say a word. What's the matter with you second.  No you don't catch me. Whoa there's another one. That's pretty rough. Now whatever is about we're steaming right into it. You just try telling the old man that. And why shouldn't I. Matter of fact I think I'll ask him about this cross swell it's getting worse all the time. I've known skippers to break some right good men for saying a whole lot less. Captain McQuirk. Yes Mr. Jukes what is it swell is getting a good deal worse sir. Yes I noticed that in here anything wrong. Well I was thinking about the passengers. What passengers. Why the coolies sir. Then if you mean coolies say coolies Mr. Jukes. I'm out to say what he means. What about the coolies.  I thought you might want to put her head at the swell for a bit until it goes down of course. So that's it. Put her head at the swell four points off the course. Well it's just for a while sir as swell as high as this can't last long that stands to reason. Mr. Jukes take a look at the barometer. Good Lord. Yes exactly. It's a dead calm outside isn't it. It's not a breath of air stirring sir. Only that cross swell. I've been reading in the book here about storms. Funny thing. If a man believed everything written down here he'd spend half his life running to get behind the weather. If I was to go by what this fellow says I'd alter my course and come booming into Footshaw from the north. Four days late. Three hundred extra miles in distance and a pretty bill for coal on top of it. I tell you Mr. Jukes if I knew every word in here was gospel true I couldn't bring myself to do that. No sir I guess not. And how's a man to know the book is right. If you dodge a round the spot of dirty weather how do you ever find out it was there in the first place. Answer me that. No Mr. Jukes there's things that a man can't get from books. I've thought it all out this afternoon. Will hold her steady as she goes. Whatever you say sir you're the captain. I guess I'd better write up the log I'm going on watch. Good. I'd say we're heading into something a bit out of the ordinary. Call me at once if anything shows up in the night Mr. Jukes. All right sir I'll see to it and Mr. Jukes. Yes sir. If you're going into the chart room please close that blinking door. I can't stand here a door banging. Yes sir. 8 p.m. swell increasing. Ship lavering heavily and taking water on all decks. Still a dead calm and very hot batting down the coolies for the night. The barometer is still falling. All appearances indicate an approaching typhoon. Hold her steady as she goes that's all we can do. Hi sir. Sure try to. Well do the best you can. Hi sir Mr. Jukes. Mr. Jukes. Hi captain I'm coming. Stand by. I want the trail. Right sir coming over. Mr. Jukes. Why didn't you call me. There was no warning sir. It is all of a sudden about five minutes ago blasted right out of a dead calm. The book was right in some parts anyhow. How's it going the wheelhouse. Hack it is. Look out sir hang on. What about Hackett. He's on the wheel. Second is putting up shutters. The window glass will go if she starts breaking any higher. Oh she'll break higher Mr. Jukes. What's higher. It's a happy thought. To have an order of course. No sir heading straight at the wind. Good. Got the answer we can't do Mr. Jukes. Understand. Yes sir. Some things a man can't find in books. Just keep her at it. That's all. Can't be helped Mr. Jukes. Hammering through on this like this. You're bound to leave something behind. It's not to reason. She's still rising all right. That one broke over the wheelhouse. We're done for for sure. What's that Mr. Jukes.  I said is there any chance at all sir. Can she live through it. She may. We can hope so at least. She's a good ship. That's all a man can ask. What's that somebody yelling. It's the lowest on the floor Dexter. Up here starboard bridge. Man shouldn't be on that deck as he has to. It's a bit dangerous. Over here. What's the trouble bosson. In Chinese sir. Hang on. The Chinese. What about them. They've all fetched away sir. One big lump. It's horrible. Yeah. Now what do you mean patched away. Rolling around in the hold in one big lump. Screaming like blooming maniac sir. All adrift. Mr. Jukes. Yes sir. I can't make head or tail of this. I guess you'd better go below and see to it. Put things in order. What shall I do sir. I can't tell you up here. Find out what's wrong. Straighten it out. That's all. That's all. Take the bosson with you. I'm going to drive to the wheelhouse. All right sir. Come on bosson. Just straighten it out. That's all. Well. How's the wheel stand Huckett. Yes. Teddy here she goes sir. You realize of course we've hit a tight phone. Oh yes sir. Sorry I can't give you a relief. Can you manage a while longer. I'll hold it to the course sir. As long as there's a ship by night. That won't be long. Oh anything wrong second. Wrong. We're all as good as dead men. That's what's wrong. Oh no I wouldn't say that. She's still afloat. And we've got it lucky here on deck. Plenty of chance to see what's coming before it hits us. A man always feels better when he can see what's coming. But it's a different story down below there. Not having knowledge of what's going on. Not knowing if we're afloat or sinking. Now there's a light that's got it tough. Now one's down there in the engine room. Now for the steam to drop. Here ride that throttle field. Can't let her rip her shaft out when she breaks clear of those wells. Hello bridge. Hello bridge. Why don't they answer the speaking to him. Can't tell if they're dead or alive up there. Hello. Hello. Yes sir. Captain. How is it on deck. Bad luck. It depends mostly on you. Well so far so good. We're holding a full head of steam. Good. We'll need it. Don't let me drive her under sir. Have to take a chance. Can't see 20 feet up here. Not to keep moving enough to steer. I understand sir. Count on us. Get and smash the mountain to deal. But do it fairly well. As long as the wheelhouse is done. Wait. Wait. Hold on. Hello. Hello. Set the captain, Mr. Round. I've got to talk to him right away. Wait a minute Jokes. Something's happened up there. Hello. Hello bridge. You're still there Mr. Round. Right. Anything wrong sir? No. Not now. The second mate's lost though. Overboard. Oh no. Lost his nerve. Awkward circumstance. Not to lock him out too. Do that. You hear that Jokes? Yes. Let me talk to him. Captain. Jokes here. The boss and I just took a look at the tween deck. It's the emblem and boxes sir. They've all broke loose and smashed to bits. The Coolies are fighting like crazy men for them silver dollars it's rolling around. Fighting? We can't have fighting on board Mr. Jokes. There are 200 of them sir.  I can't have it Mr. Jokes. Put a stop to it at once. Do you hear? Put a stop to it how? They're crazy mad.  You're second in command Mr. Jokes. Use your authority. Make it clear to them. We simply can't stop fighting. Make it clear to them? Oh yes sir. After that you better gather up all the money. I can't have it lying about on the deck. Get the portion there. Wait. Here it comes. Gee. Arsaphat. There's the one that does it. That must have swept the deck from stem to stern. Hello. Hello. Captain McGuire. You all right up there? Everything's all right Mr. Wright. All the boats and half the Starboard Rail carried away. Nothing serious. Nothing to worry about Mr. Wright. Carry on. Nothing to worry about. Carry on. You're all right Captain. As you say sir. Carry on. Carry on? Hey now. Hey now. Where you going? Where you going eh?  Out on that deck to get myself murdered. Nothing serious Jokes. Nothing to worry about. The whole blooming world's falling apart and I'm out picking up silver dollars. Captain's orders. Come on bosson.  Carry on boy. Carry on. No help for it. Our gallant skipper says to stop the fighting. Use our authority. All right then quiet down. Come on bosson. Stow it there you fools. Cut it out under your hearing. Authority huh? You're clean out of their heads. We gotta drive them to the bulkhead. Back up though. Hey none of that. Do it bosson. We gotta show them what for. Nothing else to do.  Keep over there. Jam them up bosson. Into the bulkhead. Captain. Where are you Captain? Over here Mr. Jokes. You got everything cleared up down below? Oh yes. We took care of everything sir. I thought you would. The wind fell all at once. Stop cold. It's been like this for 10 minutes now. If you think it was an easy job to bring that mob under control. The Gullies?  I had to do what's fair by them though. Mr. Jokes. That barometer in there stands at the lowest point I've ever seen a glass in my life. You mean there'll be more of it? The worst yet according to the book. It'll break sudden now. Any minute. A puff or two of wind and then it hits.  She has indeed. And she's in for a worse one. We haven't much chance have we sir? She may come through it. She's a good ship. Here's the first puff. It'll hit us hard when it comes. You left them pretty safe did you? The Gullies? We strung lifelines. Gives them something to hold on to. Good. I'd like to give them all the chance we can whatever happens. Oh they'll be all right sir. I broke out rifles. The crew put them to guarding all the companion ways leading off the team deck. You aren't the crew Mr. Jokes. Oh sure. We won't have any trouble with them now sir. Mr. Jokes please have those rifles returned to the magazines at once. What? There'll be work for every man aboard in a few minutes. I can't spare seamen to stand around and hold rifles when it isn't necessary. It's unnecessary? Don't you realize those savages will think we stole their money? But they'll tear us to bits if they ever get out of that deck. Oh I think they'll understand we're dealing fair by them. Collect the rifles Mr. Jokes. Captain it's suicide. The best thing we can do is turn the whole mess over to the authorities and food chow. If we ever get there. Well I don't know. I figure that when anything happens on shipboard it's up to me to settle it on shipboard. Part of the duties of commanding a vessel Mr. Jokes. I have no doubt here I'll be able to reach an understanding with these men later. Understanding? You would have seen him a while ago and me and the Bosun was down there. Lost their heads a bit I guess. No wonder at that one. Here she comes. Pick up those rifles Mr. Jokes and something else. Yes Captain. If anything happens to me you'll be in charge. Only advice? Keep for facing it. Best way to get through facing it. That's enough for any man. Alright Captain I'll remember it. But one thing more Mr. Jokes. Yes sir. Something that always helps at sea is to keep a cool head. Just keep a cool head. But no keep a cool head. The stitch in time saves night a rolling stone. There was a clear blue sky and bright sunshine in the morning we steamed in the food chow harbor. Mr. Rout was leaning on a hatch combing smoking a pipe. The Bosun lounged on the foredeck waiting to pick up a line from the wharf. And the captain? Well he was engaged in the most unusual occupation. He was sitting at a table on the foredeck handing out silver dollars to them blinking coolies. All divided up even. The same amount to each one. Craziest thing you ever heard of in your life. You see the way the captain figured it. Since those blighters had all worked for two years at the same rate of pay then their savings ought to all be about equal. As you can see of course it wasn't necessarily true by any means. It wasn't even legal. But you couldn't tell him anything. Yes sir coming captain. Well Mr. Jokes I've disposed of our little collection of silver dollars. Now that's great. Only way to those boys get a sure and file claims against us. Oh no they won't do that. As a matter of fact they were quite pleased at having it arranged that way. Figured it might avoid a lot of arguments later. They said to Spokesman to thank me. Well I'll be. Mr. Jokes your mayors will give all the hands six hours leave before we start working the cargo. Whatever you say captain. Oh yes and before the carpenter leaves. I wish you'd have him fixed the lock on that port cabin door. What? That seems to have got broken somehow. During the storm I suppose I can't stand to hear a door banging Mr. Jokes. Aye sir I don't suppose it matters that the ship is battered from stem to stern half her topside carried away and smashed till she looks like a bloomin' Tinson freighter. Mr. Jokes I don't understand you. You don't understand me sir. Do you understand that we've come through the worst typhoon in the China season twenty years where the only ship that got through? It's true. I suppose we were a bit lucky. Lucky sir. With two hundred murder and cutthroats running loose aboard in the very heavens doing their worst. We had a job to do and we did it. That's all Mr. Jokes. That's the important thing. Yes sir that's all. That's all he says. A job to do a bit lucky. What can you do with a man as thick as that? But then as I started to turn away Captain McQuarr said something else that surprised me.  But I'm glad we brought her through Mr. Jokes. Truly I am. She's a good ship Mr. Jokes. A good ship. I should have hated to lose her. I... I should have hated to lose her. Typhoon by Joseph Conrad was adapted for radio by Les Crutchfield and produced and directed by William N. Robeson. With bright love joy as Jokes, Raymond Lawrence as Captain McQuarr and Psy Kendall as Rout the Engineer. The special musical score was conceived and conducted by Psy Fuhr. Escape is presented by the Columbia Broadcasting System and its affiliated stations each week at this time. Next week we invite you to escape to Paris of 500 years ago in Robert Louis Stevenson's story of a fascinating adventure. The Sire de Maldres d'Or. And so good night until next week at this time. When again it will be time to escape. This is CBS, the Columbia Broadcasting System. Thank you for listening to that episode. If you would like to listen to more Escape, please visit OTRpodcast.com. That's OTR for old time radio and podcasts with an S. OTRpodcast.com. On the website you can register for my mailing list and as a thank you I will send you the links to more than 14 podcasts, each featuring every available episode of a popular radio program. In addition I'll send out an email each week as I release a new episode of this podcast so that you never miss a single one. If you have enjoyed today's episode please take a moment to subscribe and give it a 5 star rating and review in your podcast app. Or if you're watching this on YouTube just give it a thumbs up and leave a comment. As always, thank you for tuning in.


And I want to take just few minutes to talk to you a little bit about money And I know that for maybe if you're visiting us for the first time today, you know You're just you have a free free trip just to listen You don't have to participate unless you want to but those of us who are followers of Jesus Christ Who make Jesus our Lord and Savior? Not only you have to listen to what I'm about to say you have to follow what I'm about to say Also because money is a very important part of your life 16 are of 30 something parables that Jesus did They dealt with money. Jesus talked more about money than he talked about prayer fasting and internal life combined And so it's a very important aspect of your life the Bible says you can serve to masters Lord and Money never says Lord and Satan because money is a competition for our heart And we all understand that we spend eight hours at work. You don't spend eight out. You don't spend eight hours at church You don't spend eight hours even maybe with your kids or with your spouse But you spend eight hours every day working and so it's where you spend the most of your time And today I want to just address One simple issue a lot of people have different ideas about money I remember he talking to one young man and he said well Bible says money is evil and I said, where did you see that in the Bible? He said well, that's what everybody says. I'm like the Bible says love of money is root of all evil The Bible never says that money is evil Then people have this idea as the Bible says that God wants you to be poor. I was like, where did you get that? Well, it says blessed are the poor. It says blessed are the poor in heart And they will inherit the kingdom of God And so people always have these ideas about money that that somehow they heard from someone But they're not necessarily in the scripture When it comes to Giving when it comes to our generosity before God and we have to understand God is the wealthiest God is the richest God is not broke. God is very very wealthy and being so wealthy. He's also the most generous God It's interesting how these two Ingrediences and characteristics are found in one being being most generous and at the same time being most wealthy Sometimes you can come to the conclusion You can't be generous if you're wealthy and you also can't be wealthy if you're generous if you're not generous These two things have to be very important if you want to be like God You have to be generous and If you're gonna be generous You're gonna be prosperous It's possible to live in the best country in the world United States and not be prosperous and Not for lack of education not for lack of intelligence But sometimes there are problems that happen in people's lives and finances and I want to discuss those problems We call them poverty There's three types of poverty that happen to people the first kind of poverty is an attack from the devil when the poverty is an attack when it's a curse an Attack when it's a curse. What does it mean? When people through stealing open the door to Satan and Satan attacks their finances by taking from them We must understand one thing is that when we steal We give Satan a permission to steal from us When we steal from other people Satan will always steal from us. It's a rule This started from the beginning when God told Adam Not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil out of all the trees He says you can eat but of this tree. I don't want you to eat. So imagine this paycheck and God says this small portion is not yours Adam Everything else is yours. You can eat it. This is for your enjoyment and you will think Adam would get the point You know, hey, you have 99% of the trees you can eat off just leave that one tree alone and Adam goes in with his wife and he eats of the tree There wasn't supposed to be eaten off and the Bible says the first thing that happens They draw a curse under life which was revealed itself in the fact that Adam would no longer Have his needs provided for by eating from the garden, but he would have to work hard in a sweat of his brow What did that curse touch? finances if you think the poverty Starts with great depression is started in the Genesis chapter 3 It started with a man who took us something that wasn't his And it opened the door for the curse it Adam stopped being intelligent No, it Adams became foolish. No, it Adams stopped making money. No, but it what happened with Adam Is that he had to work in the sweat of a brow and from now on We cannot be fooled. We must understand one thing is this is that if we want to be people Who prosper financially we have to shut the door to this one sin called stealing We can't steal Now you're like a hundred percent I shouldn't be stealing. Maybe you were stealing before You know stealing stopped in our church a long time ago, but we used to have stillings iPads would disappear iPhones would disappear cameras would disappear different things and things have changed people have grown and everything praise god But stealing is not only from other people stealing also from god And this is where it gets a little bit tricky because I in my own wisdom would never dare to say that You know that there's we can steal from god, but in bible in malachi chapter 3 it says that God says that you are cursed with the curse Because you would hold the tithes from the lord and god says you rob me by withholding tithes from me It's very strong words when I will read that I'm like I would never dare to come up with those words Because they're really really really strong when god says people Draw curse on their life by this sin of stealing Not only that they steal from other people, but they also dare to steal from god Now most of you in here i'm assuming all of us in here Stealing is not our problem You don't come to church and your temptation is not like stealing pastor's phone Like you don't sit there during worship. Oh god, please help me god. Please help me because my hand is going into this neighbor's purse That's not your problem And when we pray for addiction, you know, you're not like saying oh god Please because I saw the car over there had the keys inside. I was really thinking to jack that car That's none of our problem, right? We don't we don't struggle with stealing from other people But many times we don't think of when we don't give our tithe As us stealing from god and let me tell you why we wouldn't think like that Because we have a self entitlement mentality It's mine It's my money What do you mean?  You didn't create the oxygen You didn't give yourself health nothing all of that came as a gift with no payment And we have the self entitlement it is mine So when god says that when we as believers we don't give our tithes we are robbing him We have this self defense mechanism kicking in says no no no that is mine. It's none of his stuff But in actuality god is right and we are wrong god is the creator He gave us everything to enjoy and we as a sign of thanksgiving and as a sign of trust should always return 10% saying god Everything I am came from you God I know people who are 29 Who are smarter than me and they are buried in a cemetery right there in pasco God I know people who have degrees And they found them dead in the toilet at their work So I don't claim to brag that everything I have is mine. It's a gift from you I know people who are smart and intelligent and driving to get their Certificate and on a road. There was an accident that happened. So god, I know that everything I have is not Just from me. It is your gift and I want to be grateful and thankful to say god. I thank you Amen When we steal we draw a curse upon our life and this curse manifests itself in this That god lifts a protection And satan steals from us as we've stole either from other people or from god If you're sitting here and you want to be financially prosperous and you're working extra hours You're working really really hard Guard yourself against this sin of stealing Stealing from people and secondly stealing from god I remember when two years ago I had this sin that I struggled with I would download movies through torrents I know none of you have ever done that before so Most of you don't know what that is but those of you who ever had a computer And in your hispanic or russian You probably have used that software one time or another now some are waving heads now I don't steal I just go to the store and take it from the store But I didn't do this all the time but My excuse was always well hollywood has enough money plus they're already sinning So if I just take a thing or two who cares Somehow two wrongs make one right, you know twisted. It was just it was just really bad And I remember it was vivid as yesterday. It was friday. We were driving from a date and And my wife wanted we wanted to watch something some kind of a cartoon or some some cheesy family movie And I'm like, oh and in my mind. I'm like, oh I'll download it. No big deal And I'm driving and I have this no peace in the heart where I feel like I'm stealing and I'm debating in my own heart. We're driving and my wife is there. She doesn't even hear this But I'm debating. I'm like, well, it's not stealing It's uh, it's completely fine. Plus, you know, like it's not actually stealing plus I don't sell this movie I just delete it afterwards and I don't give it to my homies and cronies in ukraine and stuff I just delete it and I feel the whole spirit is lad You're a thief And at that time I started to kind of be more generous and and I feel like here I am asking God to bless me and opening a back door to the devil to come and steal from me And that's the picture that I got in the car. And so and I'm like, man, this but I'm like, it's only four bucks. But this for those four bucks, you know, I could get a cup of coffee for those four bucks And I remember we came home and then that night Instead of downloading the movie legally, I actually rented it I was like, man, after this, I won't be watching movies at all If that's the way to go and I felt a holy spirit like, well, that's not gonna be bad for you either We can kill two birds with one stone Getting rid of stealing and movies at the same time And ever since then not to be all self-righteous and everything but I closed the door to that in my life of stealing And and I said, Lord, not only I want to be very generous with my finances and give to the church 10% But I also not want to be an idiot of opening my back door to stealing And for some of you, maybe you don't feel like this is stealing I'm not your God here to tell you that this is but if the Holy Spirit nugs on your heart And go to your police officer and he will tell you whether it's stealing or not If you don't want to believe the preacher But you have to close the door to stealing if you want to have a blessing of God If you steal You will have a curse on your finances You can make six digit incomes. You will be cursed In your finances Other areas could be doing all right, but the area of finances will not be doing good I know a brother in seattle who would do business and as a contractor and he would do people Means he would have them paint his house but not pay them He would come up with all these excuses He said, well, you didn't do right there and there and he would not pay them on purpose He would build a roof and he wouldn't pay them because he said, well, you guys showed up late He was supposed to come on Monday, but you came on Tuesday And so he found all these loopholes and justifications not to pay his people and he made bank Until things started to go bad for him where all the money he would make he would spend on his health problems All the money he would make he would spend on other problems And at the end he found himself making more money Keeping less money until one time a preacher got up and preached this exactly same message If you steal from people or you do people rip people off You will have a curse on your finances.  You will always spend them paying for things You wouldn't have to pay for for those things before in your life Holy spirit convicted him and all the images all the pictures of the people he stole start flashing in his mind He started quickly writing it down and he spent about six months paying them back Going to them some of them were out of business because he didn't pay them and they couldn't pay their Their tools and their license and their insurance and they had to go out of business.   That's right because Jesus says we need to give everything So relax homiji. Everything is fine and stuff. You really want to go Jesus style You're gonna have to go on the cross and and die and stuff because for most people Jesus never said to Tied he says give everything you have and come and follow me So i'm not sure you really want Jesus for right now in this area Jesus also said that we ought to not leave this meant he meant tied But to also tide and not to forget justice mercy and all of these great qualities. Amen When we close the door to stealing we close the door to Poverty poverty that comes as a result of stealing it brings curse There is also poverty that comes as a result of affliction Not an attack but affliction And this poverty is not a curse. It's a test Where the Lord will allow a poverty to come into your life not because the devil is attacking you and because you are a thief But because you are a righteous person and the enemy is attacking you and you are experiencing an affliction But the most beautiful part about this kind of poverty is the bible says that many are the afflictions of the righteous But the Lord delivers him out of them all Which means if a christian righteous person goes through a hard time financially and they check their life And they are righteous righteous not necessarily mean they're perfect Righteous does not necessarily mean they're better or holier than thou Righteous simply means that they're right before god and in their financial dealings their conscience is clean They don't steal from people and they don't steal from god Then every hard thing they go through is affliction means it's temporary it won't last And god will deliver them out of all of their afflictions And we see jope in the bible was one of those people who went through an affliction Even though the bible says satan attacked him, but jope was a righteous man And so the reason why he experienced that and that was all of a test and when all of that ended which ended The bible says jope received double for all of his trouble Many people use the scripture with the bible says the lord delivers the righteous out of all of his afflictions For themselves, but you can't use that scripture if you are not a person who is right in your financial dealings If you are not right in your financial dealings that scripture is not for you. It's taken out of the context So you have to be a person who is right in your financial dealings and then your poverty is going to be just something temporary It's not going to last it's something you will get through you will get stronger in god You will get a deeper grip on the eternity and deeper love for god and god will bless you can somebody say amen The third kind of poverty which is different. So the first poverty is an attack by satan. It's a curse because we steal The second poverty It's an affliction. It's a test But we are righteous the third kind of poverty It's an act of love that we choose To become poor as our way of serving god and loving people The bible says in Corinthians Jesus being rich became poor so that we can be enriched through his poverty Jesus was also poor not all his life, but on the cross He experienced poverty not because he was afflicted not because he was attacked But because he made a decision on his own Nobody took anything from him. He made a decision to give everything he had so that I could get things that I don't have And this kind of poverty is a good poverty The reason why is because you can't do this kind of poverty if you're broke You can't give anything away if you don't have anything to give So the only people who can actually do this poverty is people who have wealth and blessings and who have something to give And if people don't have anything to give well, it's very difficult to be in this kind of poverty Some of you know about mother Teresa Who you know walked away from her amazing life and went to serve in india to the less privileged people And this that's the kind of poverty that i'm talking about Some of you know the author of rick warren who wrote a famous book called purpose driven life that sold over 40 million copies And this book made him extremely extremely wealthy in one of the interviews. He said he made so much money from the book He could he could buy an island and fill the whole island with Bentley's You know what he did with that money? He went and paid his church back all the money the church paid him as a pastor for the past some 20 years all of that money back and after that What he did is he switched his tithing instead of tithing 10 percent he tithes 90 and lives on 10 And he testified he said till this day. I live in the same house Where the same clothes Drive the same car eating the same restaurants and live exactly the same as I lived before I made that money For one simple reason not because I can't live better But because I choose to live poor in the eyes of people with the amount of money I have so that this money could go to serve a greater cause Of reaching more people to god touching nations and touching causes in the world Which require finances for them to go and make a difference And this is a good poverty Now nobody likes to be poor, but if you ever end up in this poverty It's a good poverty You know, you will never be more poor than you were when you were born When you were born, you were very poor And you will never be more poor than when you will die When you will die, you will be very poor.  I know a few months ago when one gentleman who gave his life to Jesus Recommitted his life to Jesus and and I was talking about offering about once a month I kind of take a little bit longer to talk about money and giving And I did that exactly at that time and the Lord placed placed on his heart to begin to give A certain amount every week as he would come to church But the problem with that to give it would cause them very deep emotional pain And some of you even listening right now and maybe you have thoughts. Maybe I should give this one Voice says give the other voices. You're crazy. Don't listen to the preacher. He's stealing your money. That's all they do And so the one is voices of the devil. The other voice is the holy spirit. It's very simple And so and as this voice start coming to his head you have to give this amount But the other voice says well if i'm going to give this I could get a brand new car and have Enough money to make the payments every single month if I don't give those money But against the other voice he decided to go ahead and start giving And this young man is already very generous He pays for his mother's house And he pays for his mother's car So he could already say well, you know what I already give a lot But he decided to also give to god And then after a few few weeks after some time god gave him an idea And an idea was to come to to his employer and to present him a certain plan And after this plan was presented, you know that his employer rewarded him with a very very very Very very expensive. I won't mention the the digits. So it won't offend your faith But very very lucrative thing that he received as a gift from his employer It tops everything that he was planning to give or will give in the next five or six years And when he came back he was so full of joy. He says it worked I said the goal what worked is not the fact you got money back what worked is the fact that you were obedient That's what worked And then a few weeks later He received also some royalty that from something that he had that he would always receive a year very small amount But this time this was maybe like six or seven times more He sent a quickly a check and he's like this is so incredible. This is so awesome He's like I have chills in my body right now that this is amazing And it brought so much joy. I've experienced these miracles countless times in my life Through giving and through generosity, but to see somebody walking in and not only experience peace But to experience god who provides and supernaturally But it's blessing in your finances. It's amazing testimony. Amen