What is going on everybody is Stas here welcome back to another video So in this video, we're going to be doing an overall market update looking at the Dow Jones the S&P 500 and the Nasdaq We're going to be talking about two trades that I made today on the 20th of March in 2019 as well as taking a look at some key notes that I have here from the Federal Reserve meeting that we saw earlier today at 2 p.m. Eastern Standard Time is when that meeting occurred and we're also going to be talking about some other stocks and ETFs that I'm Personally watching here over the next couple of trading days to potentially trade But before we do get into the topics of today's video for everybody out there that finds value in these videos You enjoy the content here on YouTube and you find value in this video Feel free to go down below and hit that like button guys It really does support me and supports the channel in general and if you're new to the channel and you want to be a part of our community after you watch the video and after you see You know what I personally talk about with the stock market feel free to go down below There are two links the discord group chat and the Facebook group both of those are 100% free to use and there's great great resources in there many many investors and traders that can help you and that you Can really communicate with collaborate with bounce ideas off of and it's just a great community And what it's become has been absolutely amazing. So get down below get in those two groups guys You will not regret it. So without further ado, let's talk about what ended up happening today With the overall market and it was another roller coaster ride Just like it has been over these past couple of days. So today the SPX ended up closing the day down Red down about eight points and thirty seven or rather eight dollars and thirty four cents down about point two nine Percent at the close the Dow Jones industrial average had got hit a little bit harder here down about point five five percent at the close down about a hundred and forty one dollars and seventy one cents and the NASDAQ composite guys It's currently down about four points down about point oh five percent But this is the future that we're watching here So let's see where it ended up closing it ended up closing at around fourteen eleven So about you know seven points higher So this one probably ended up closing up about three points on the day very minimal move there You know in terms of the NASDAQ Composite so like I said and like you all probably know by now The Federal Reserve had a meeting today at 2 p.m. Eastern Standard Time and typically whenever the Federal Reserve Has a meeting whenever Jerome Powell is speaking the markets tend to fluctuate very heavily, right? We can see at 2 p.m. Literally at 2 p.m. Eastern Standard Time here the SPX the S&P 500 went up from twenty eight twenty All the way up to twenty eight forty three so off the top of my head I think that's a one one percent move roughly. Yeah, it really went one percent up to the upside in the matter of 30 minutes once that meeting Started to kick off and then we can see the dump of the SPX from about twenty eight forty three at this point We were up a decent amount in the green for the day and we ended up closing the day like we saw red Down about eight dollars and thirty four cents. So let's just break down the SPX here Let's go over some technicals that I'm personally watching and that we've been watching here over the past couple of Trading days so we all know by now guys that we broke out of the resistance on the SPX from about twenty eight twenty Or yeah twenty eight twenty roughly and we've been holding it on top of that level here for a couple of days Right, we broke on the 15th of March and we held on the 16th or rather the 18th of March the 19th And today we're technically still holding that support level here on the SPX at about twenty eight twenty And a very critical thing here guys It's kind of playing out to what I said it was going to play out as right not not that I can predict the future guys We all know that no one can predict what the market is going to do all we can do is make educated You know decisions here right and I said over the past couple of videos that You know once we did break above here I could see or rather once we did break above here, which we did I could see a couple of days of consolidation for us to test that support level and that's exactly What's been going down here in terms of the SPX we can see you know We kind of consolidated this day We popped up went back to the support on this day right and we can see this better on the five-day five minute Remember yesterday. I was talking about this level right here at about twenty eight twenty three This being a level of support the fact that we tested it here on the 18th We popped up retested it at the close of the market yesterday And now if we extend this over here we can see we literally closed at the same support level So my theory here over the past couple of days that we were going to consolidate around this level is really playing out right now Which is really really cool. So from now where are we gonna go right? Where are we gonna go? That's the whole entire thing that we want to know now Well from now there's a couple of different things that can happen right the fact that we did Pulled back a bit brought that our side down a bit as well And notice how if you all know if you watch the Fed meeting if you read the news if you read some articles You realize that the Fed did not increase interest rates, which is something that we expected right? I personally expected that a bunch of other people expected that because the Federal Reserve chair Jerome Powell He said that he wasn't going to raise interest rates aggressively in 2019 like like what happened in 2018 so this leads me to believe there could be some further green in the market So the fact that we did pull back here brought the our side down We got some good news about the Federal Reserve and they're really not looking to hike up any interest rates in 2019 at all And we're gonna be getting that here in a couple of minutes, which is even further good news Right so the fact that we pulled back here Honestly, this could be a bounce zone now for the SPX since we did consolidate over the past couple of days So one scenario is we could end up pushing back up from here Right, we can end up pushing bouncing off the support and then continuing to run up Maybe test that 2850 resistance from a couple of days ago and then test that next high Which is at about 2870 that we've been talking about or be another thing that could potentially happen here is We can further sell off the fact that we closed red today means, you know Really, it doesn't mean that we could potentially sell off more But since we are pulling back a bit here, you know, we could end up selling off a bit more even though We did get good news just because you know the trend that we're seeing here every time we pushed up to a higher High we sold off at least one two three percent. So this little pullback here It's not really I think it's about, you know one percent maybe one percent, right? So the fact that the previous pullback was three percent the one before that I believe was closer to two percent You know, maybe we could pull back another percent percent and a half to bring that our side down a bit And for us to test this level right around here at about 2775 Which would put us on this 50s and a support. I think that is also, you know, something very very That's something that can very likely happen here, right? There's a couple of different things So that's what I'm looking at in terms of the SPX, you know, the optimism right now is pretty pretty high Especially with what ended up happening, you know with the Fed share But again, you know, we could end up selling off more who really knows right? We just have to see what the futures are going to be doing in the morning the large caps How are they going to react? You know in the morning is this is this selling that we saw towards the end of the market Is it going to continue if we do end up breaking that support that I showed you guys on the SPX from the previous Three days, you know tomorrow, let's say we open up and do something like this, you know that that in my eyes That's going to indicate more selling to come. So the Dow Jones here, you know We saw a little sell-off a further sell-off than the SPX like we talked about and we finally we actually broke The support at about 25800 dollars, which was a resistance a couple of months ago And since we broke out of that a couple of days ago That made it a new support again and the fact that we broke that support now We're treating it as a new resistance to 25800 level with the next support at about 25400 dollars So just like the SPX guys a bunch of different things can happen here Let's say, you know, we end up selling off in the pre-market hours of the Dow Jones We notice some of the Dow 30 companies. They're down tomorrow morning You know, we could be doing something like this Right, we can just be selling off to the next support level, which at this point Is not is not too crazy to think about right? This is not something that is too out of reach We also could end up popping up here breaking that resistance treating it as a new support level again And slowly start to push up on this optimism that was pumped into the markets today, you know from the federal reserve Meeting so it's really not rocket science, you know, this type of market we're in right now You know, it's either going to pull back very aggressively here Or we're just going to push up and and you know end up going into the green with this news that we ended up getting So honestly guys the Dow Jones, it's not looking crazy in terms of an uptrend here But it's also not looking crazy in terms of a downtrend. It's kind of in, you know This middle ground here where you honestly can go either way So that's what I'm looking at in terms of the NASDAQ or the Dow Jones rather and now the NASDAQ This one's trading in between these two levels that we've been covering over the past couple of videos The first level being the 73 75 ish the 73 50 ish level, which was an older resistance We broke above that making it a new support and the next resistance, which is at about 7400 dollars And if I go in here on the five day five minute, we can see we tested this level a couple of days ago Really, it was yesterday and we were trading between the support and their resistance Very nice on the horizontal pattern and that led all the way to aftermarket hours Yesterday into this morning. We held this level as a new support And now we spiked up once the federal reserve meeting kicked off We ended up breaking through that level of resistance and now we're pulling back Hovering at that level of resistance again at about 47 or rather 7400 and 10 dollars So for tomorrow, I would really wait to see are we going to continue this momentum To the upside here once we confirm a bounce on this 50 SMA Are we going to push out of this level of resistance at that point guys? If we do end up doing that, I think the NASDAQ could end up ultimately testing the next level Which at this point is going to be roughly at about 7500 dollars And it's scary to think that we're getting so close here to all-time highs in terms of all of these indices It's getting really scary to think that in just 2019 alone guys the market's up 20 percent So that's another little uh interesting topic here, right? The market's up 20 percent right now Are we due for a bigger retracement here? Right, we've been seeing the pullbacks of about 1 to 3 percent sure We've been doing our analysis on the spx for a couple of days here But you got to ask yourself sometimes right the market's up 20 percent at this pace You know the market's going to keep going up and up and up in our eyes, right? Which is why I think we need to see an even bigger pullback here in the next couple of weeks Maybe the next month or two to bring down that 20 percent near 20 percent gain in 2019 Back down to a reasonable level because these levels guys they're going to become unsustainable But let's say we do end up breaking the all-time highs. Who knows guys, you know, that can happen as well We just have to play it by ears. So right now You know the nasdaq it's going to go either two ways right very simple Just like the dow if we break this resistance level tomorrow I think the uptrend is going to continue. We're going to be headed to 7500 dollars Let's say we don't break this up trend. We end up selling off a bit Let's say we have a red date tomorrow This is going to be breaking or rather testing the support at about 73 60 73 70 And if we break that the next target is going to be, you know The 7300 ish level with the support on the 50 simple moving average here on the 184 hour chart So that is what i'm looking at very simple in terms of the overall markets I'm very excited to see what ends up happening here guys Of course, don't forget about the trade deal the trade war with trump and china There's going to be some solutions to that here in the next couple of weeks next couple of months At least that's what trump is saying. So if we get a trade deal done That's going to be huge for the uh, you know the market as well We couldn't be pushing up to all-time highs if we do end up getting a trade deal done There's just a bunch of different things Going on here. So let's talk about what I ended up trading really quickly here Then we'll talk about the notes on the federal reserve meeting Then we'll talk about a couple of stacks very quickly and then i'll get you guys out of here And uh, you can keep doing what you're doing. So first stack I ended up trading today Which I did end up calling out this morning and my morning video was u w t so u w t Pumped into the 18 dollar range today had about a 5 day and for those of you guys that don't know It trades based upon slash cl the crude oil futures and this morning I was talking about this move here on crude oil and whenever crude oil goes up in price, you know, see uh, what's it called? Uwt goes up in price as well. So in this morning's video I was talking about how this sell-off this pullback in crude oil opened up the opportunity in u w t Which I was waiting for right then we saw the consolidation at about 58 50 to 58 60 from about 6 30 a.m This morning up to about 9 a.m. About 2 hours eastern standard time of consolidation them in the video this morning I talked about how I wanted to see a break out of this level here at about 58 86 this resistance from about 7 30 a.m eastern standard time For this running pattern right and that's exactly what ended up happening This ended up playing out perfectly. So pretty much guys I got in this morning as we really formed this little cup Pattern and as we continued to ride the 50 sma and we continued to make higher highs higher lows And we continued to push up in crude oil and if we go to uwt we can see You know, that's what happened all day for uwt as well. We made higher highs We rode the 50 sma. We kept pushing up. So very simple guys I got in at around 17 dollars and 20 cents this morning ended up riding it up for about 1.5 percent This was actually a very quick Mover here we can see really this spike up here Kind of got kind of scared me a little bit guys because at this point, you know, we spiked up very quickly We started to sell off aggressively. So I ended up just taking my profits I believe right around here and we can see from about 17 20 Let me show you guys very quickly from about 17 20 I wrote it up to here. I was up about 3% at one point and then we started to sell off aggressively And I actually took about I think it was more of a 2% profit because I didn't remember selling at about 17 60 after that dump I just wanted to take my profits to potentially re-enter But I actually did not end up re-entering into uwt But I actually ended up getting into invidia today as well Which is one of the two stocks that I talked about in yesterday's video So i'm swing trading at v Activision blizzard and the other one I talked about in yesterday's video was invidia and I actually got into invidia today As the stock was actually getting pummeled during really before the fed meeting Right, we got pumped to 180 nearly and then we sold off all the way down to 173 And we confirmed the bounce at the support the new support at about 172 to 173 Which is what I wanted to see before getting in and is what is and it's honestly what I highlighted in yesterday's video Right, so I ended up getting in Roughly, I believe it was at about 174 173 40. I think it was like 174 ish on invidia here And this swing trade guys is a swing trade and I plan on swing trading it to at least 185 which is the next target that I do have here and I do plan on adding more money as we continue to confirm The uptrend so as it continues to confirm the uptrend Let's say tomorrow we start to get up into the 170s mid 170s 176 ish That is where I want to add a little bit more money and again The target to sell is at about 185 and I always have about a 2% profit or stop loss rather You know on these swing trades and as the money goes up as I'm in the profit I typically set trailing stop losses to protect the gain So that is what I'm doing in terms of invidia guys Nothing too crazy just added an initial position here plan on adding more as the stock continues to go up And in terms of activision blizzard i'm up a little bit on that position We saw a little pullback today in activision and honestly guys I'm still holding and I plan on adding more as it continues to push up And I do have a 2 stop loss on at the right now So those are the two trades that I made today And let me just quickly go over some of the fed notes that I took so first off guys We all know at this point no more rate hikes in 2019. That is what we ended up hearing the fed expressed Rising concern and economic slowdown from last year leaving the interest rates unchanged No interest rate changes today Which for all you guys that don't know whenever interest rates are going up That makes people less willing to borrow which doesn't stimulate the economy, right? Which is why when interest rates are low or even at zero People are more willing to borrow and that stimulates the economy stimulates growth And thus the stock market does very well, which is why we saw the crazy run You know really from 2009 10 all the way up to really 2015 2016, right? And then once the federal reserve starts to raise the interest rates It kind of spooks not really spooks investors until the rates get too high But it starts to make borrowing a little bit less attractive, right? Which really slows down the economy in a quick little synopsis, right? That's what ends up happening. So the Fed expects economic growth of 2.1 percent for 2019 Actually lowering their forecast from December, which was about 2.3 percent growth for 2019 So that's another little worrisome factor there the growth for 2019 got dropped about 0.2 percent there So no signal to raise rates in the near future for the Fed another thing We obviously already talked about that Powell isn't necessarily against cutting the rate either And if he cut the rate guys, I mean that would be very good for the overall stock market in my opinion Right if we cut the rate again, more people are willing to borrow, you know very basic there And you know that could stimulate the stock market as well And another thing here is that many of the federal reserve, you know the chairman the the officials They expect lower than expected economic growth for 2019 and 2020 which obviously at this point We already know that guys. We already know that a lot of people are expecting, you know, slower growth This is something that we already know, right? So that's just a quick little synopsis There are some key notes that I got from the federal, you know The federal reserve meeting that took place today And let's just talk about very quickly guys because I know the video is probably already too long right now But let's talk about what I'm looking to trade here over the next couple of days. So acb and cgc acb being a raw cannabis And uh cgc canopy growth company. These are two marijuana stocks. I'm very interested in trading here So today we got a pullback in acb that I was waiting to see But I did not end up pulling the trigger here because I honestly want to see a further pullback to around 9 20 9 30 even 9 10 and if we got the $9 flat guys, that would be absolutely ideal But I know that's being a little bit too You know that's being a little bit too optimistic to think it's going to go down that far guys because we see these stocks They run and sometimes on the little pullbacks here. They run up even further So if this one runs or rather if it if it runs and pops up tomorrow I pretty much miss my opportunity there, but I think or rather i'm hoping for You know a little bit more of a pullback here So I can get an even better entry point an even better deal and might bite me in the butt guys But it could end up working out tomorrow We just have to wait and see what ends up happening here in aurora cannabis. So cgc guys I was talking about this one yesterday. It's in this wedge pattern and today We actually got a pop to the the break of the resistance of the wedge today very briefly, right? This was a very very very big move here from about 45 90 up to about 48 60 and just to illustrate the move here to you guys 5% nearly 6% in the matter of how quick was this about 30 minutes at more like an hour in terms of cgc But what this tells me guys is that we broke that resistance We pulled back now and I want to see tomorrow Are we going to retest that high at about 48 dollars? Which is actually a resistance from a couple of weeks ago, right in the beginning of march We were at 48 dollars So the fact that we broke this wedge is a good sign that we could see more bullish push here And we got rejected by that resistance Which means we could end up filling back up to that resistance since we saw the pullback So tomorrow I'm very interested in playing cgc on this potential pump up of around 5 to 6% Excuse me, you know potential margin, you know on this trade so Another one i'm watching tomorrow, of course, it's going to be cl and uwt guys These are two that I've been trading every day It seems like at this point and they've been doing very well for me, right? So I think tomorrow if oil does end up seeing another big green day if we do push up to 61 I think at this point in time I'm going to be waiting for another one of these retracements another one of these pullbacks Where I'll be able to get into dwt, which is actually the inverse to uwt And this is again the beauty of these inverse ETFs. I played uwt today. Let's say we pump up to 61 dollars tomorrow Maybe I can get some action on uwt although at that point it might be overbought It might be a little bit more tricky of a spot to get in but let's say I successfully do that And I see resistance here and a slight sign of a dump the rsi is pointing down the mac d is pointing to a cell Right, I could end up playing dwt on the downside here. That would be the perfect scenario there That would be you know the ideal situation You know with crude oil here and the uwt dwt combination so That's what i'm looking at in terms of those two combos there Fb today guys facebook did very well today up about 2.4 percent and now it's safe to say the support at 160 is confirmed We're trending in the mid 160s now So i'm going to be looking to potentially trade facebook back up to 170 which is a resistance where we topped off On about four separate occasions here over the past two months So facebook very interesting in my opinion going to be watching that very closely and another one is tesla guys So tesla it showed a support and it showed strong support on the support channel here the support level of this Little wedge pattern that i'm showing you guys and the fact that we're curling back up here Gives me reason to believe that we could potentially test 280 tomorrow, which is a resistance from a couple of months ago And if we break 280 we could be going back up to the 180 simple moving average Which at that point would be around 285 to $290 and let me quickly plug in my laptop Because the last thing i want to happen guys is for this to die in the middle of recording that would suck but tesla tesla's looking really good now for a little reversal to the upside I'm going to be waiting to see what that one ends up doing So i'm going to end off the video here guys a couple of my main picks for tomorrow are tesla the two marijuana stocks acb and cgc and of course Uwt dwt those have been money makers for me over the past couple of days I'm going to be sticking to those as well and facebook of course up to the next 170 uh resistance I think there's a lot of potential there So i hope you guys enjoyed these this video if you did feel free to drop a like leave a comment subscribe Follow me on instagram as well as on twitter join our free communities down below the discord and the facebook You can also subscribe to the channel. I don't know if i already said that I say a bunch of different things guys if i already said that forgive me But drop a like while you're at it subscribe comment all that different stuff I appreciate you guys for watching it means a lot. We hit 2000 a couple of weeks ago Let's see if we can crack 3000 subscribers here on the channel soon enough with all your support I'm sure we'll be able to get there soon enough. So I appreciate you guys again. Thanks for watching I'll catch you all in the next video. Peace out You


Live from San Francisco, California, it's theCUBE at VMworld 2014, brought to you by VMware, Cisco, EMC, HP, and Nutanix. Now here are your hosts, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Okay, welcome back everyone here live inside theCUBE in VMworld 2014 in San Francisco, California. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. This is theCUBE, Peter Bookman. Welcome back to theCUBE, good to see you again. Global Stratosphere 3D, what's going on? Tell us what's happening with you and here at VMworld, let's jump in. Well, it's quite a bit, it's good to be back. When we last talked, I was at V3. You know, five years ago, September 2010, we actually started the hyper-converged movement with VDI and so it was exciting. We didn't call it that, but we're happy to be a part of the movement, especially during this show where it's all the rage and the space needs it. We need simpler stuff and it's great. It's always fun to talk to the folks who set the fashion trends up and then just could have called it back. We had Scott McNeely on theCUBE a couple of years ago and he said, I just should have called it cloud. Like, hey. And so in a way, all the stuff has happened by pioneers but when it becomes a reality, they put kind of hyper-converges, basically purpose-built. I mean, just call what it is.  So we talked to Pat Gelsen, we said, Pat, crushes from the crowd chat was, they asked Pat how far up the stack as VM we're going to move up the stack. So, you know, Pat was very candid. He said, look, this is what we're not going to do. We're not going to make hardware. We love Cisco. They make great gear, right, ding. And then we won't make consumer apps, which basically puts the line right at the VDI level that you've been playing in. So what's your take on that? I mean, it's been around for a while, good advancements, but does anything under the hood change the dimensions of what's happening towards the top of the stack? Yeah, we definitely see a lot of change there. I mean, what happened with V3 is we sold to a company by the name of Sphere 3D, who I'm the global strategist for now. And it's really exciting what we're doing with hyper-convergence and applying it to distributed architecture. Sphere 3D had and has a technology called Glassware that has a radically new approach to application virtualization. It's very simple. It's microvisor based, but plugs in really well to this hyper-converged world we're talking about, and especially in a distributed space. So I see and we see a big opportunity, again, with the fashion trend, and setting the fashion trend to be able to have simplified deployments and continue this trend, and making a similar inhabit boil up the stack as VMware's talking about. Okay, so take a quick second and explain what Sphere 3D does and the company, what's their products, what's their positioning. We're not really familiar with much. Yeah, great, Sphere 3D started with this microvisor based application virtualization technology. We were using the same model of hyper-convergence to deploy it. It can be deployed geographically all over the world. They see each other, they adapt to each other. We're finding a lot of success in the educational space and healthcare with being able to help people to simplify virtualization where you don't need the certifications to be able to make things happen. You don't need to know the expertise and there's a big, we see a big gap there. So then V3 systems as the destination. That's for people who are onboarding to want to work with virtualization. You're creating kind of a front end abstraction to the complexity. Absolutely, very much like we're seeing with Echo, right, Echo. We're seeing make it simpler but apply to applications and desktops. Make it so the desktop people are managing physical stuff, can manage virtual stuff, and then extended there. Sphere 3D also announced it's acquiring Overland Storage, which brings some really interesting old storage, but very relevant and powerful storage families into this equation as well. So I got to ask you the whole buzz around VVOLs and Dave and I were talking about LUNs and admins are changing. So the admin of the admin of the admin is a meta approach. So what's going on there? I mean, at some level you will need provisioning which is getting better and better but then you got to manage stuff. So how does the admin role change? It used to be the old days. Okay, I'm managing volumes, I'm managing some storage and other things. What's your take on the automation and the impact of the admins? You know, I'm kind of happy that it seems to me, maybe it's just me, but this is the first year I'm not seeing BYOD as all the rage. It's like huge, like that's the problem we're trying to solve because for me it never was the problem, it was indicative of that question which is at the end of the day, the person producing the predict, being productive wants the tools they want. So I view what we're all moving towards is it has to get simple enough that the architectures and the distributed architectures all play together so the user's making an intelligent decision of what they want that applies to storage and it applies to desktops that applies to applications. That's where hyperconvergence and drop-in really appeals to us. Drop-in makes sense, but what about the interface? Talk about the interfaces, because at the end of the day, we see GE putting a front-end to machines with big data and you're talking about providing the tool that the customers want. At the end of the day also with automation brings a user interface question. So what is that interface? What do you see that happening? I think the more converges we can get, the better for now. I mean being able to all certainly take something that's simple for each audience because it seems like it's a lot more than what's there. We're very excited to see VMware take the approach they are doing of trying to provide a simplified interface for those who are trying to administer just desktops or just servers and applying that across the board and then like you described, moving it back up the stack so that I can manage them all is really what we see has to happen and is very valuable when that's happening because speaking for me as a user, I just want my stuff and I want how I want it, where I want it on the device. I know it's, we've been saying that forever. I know it's still corny, it was corny the first time, but it still is. I want my stuff. That's the reality, people are moving to that objective. Because the developers have the power. Exactly. So Peter, you know, that's all this talk about hyper-convergence. It's like, it's almost like welcome to the party. Yeah. So I wonder if you could talk a little bit about, so how we should think about VMware's entry and it's ecosystem's entry into this business, what that means for you guys, how you're innovating, you know, because you've been there for a while now, and which is, I see this as a tailwind for you, but what you have to do to stay ahead of that curve. Yeah, amongst our team, we talk about the welcome to the party, as Will said, because we joke about saying it's one thing to have people stand in front of a crowd and say, see, VMware just validated us. The harder question is, and what's next, though? Because if you stop, because, This is model, VMware validated us. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, I don't want the pad on the back. I want to keep solving problems. And to me, it seems like we're just getting started still. And I think hyper-convergence is indicative of, call it what you want, drop in, what have you, but the cloud was meant, as Scott McNeely said, it was meant to be everywhere. It was meant to be how I want it. It was meant to be the network is the computer, whatever, it's put it in closest to me and allow me to make the choices. And I think there's a long way to go still there, and we're very excited, again, with the acquisition pending with Overland Storage, we get a portfolio of great 34-year-old storage platforms as well as a really sophisticated established channel who has the feedback mechanism to let us know what we need to do to make this easier, simpler and available to more people, because it's just not there yet. Yeah, but so with Overland, you get the channel, you get the stack, essentially, that they built over a long period of time, but as an independent or as a standalone company, they never could really explode out. So it helped people understand this roll-up that you, I think, helped architect and where it gets the escape velocity. Well, I think that we're a big differentiator with Sphere 3D is, I think hyper-convergence is great. Again, we were early on that, we're going to continue on that path, but I think that it still needs to be simpler and it still needs to connect everything together as we were just discussing. So being able to have an application stack which Sphere 3D already had and being able to bring V3's desktop silo to that and hyper-converge appliances for that and then being able to wrap in now storage of whatever type, whether that's virtual tape libraries or object-based storage or whatever else, is necessary to complete the solution and then applying that to the users who actually need it and are crying for it. The words we're hearing is clamoring for it. Whether we talk about use cases like education where it's great, hey, let's all do Chromebooks and now who's going to manage the legacy app part? Who's going to do that? Because unless we have that simplified deployment, that simplified drop-in easy deployment mechanism, it won't get very far. It'll find the same places we keep finding ourselves which is it almost worked. But it needs to be better, it needs to be simpler. Well, a key word there is solution. So the channel, I think, is clamoring for solutions as opposed to just sort of selling boxes. So what are you seeing in the channel? Thanks, well, go ahead. I was going to answer that question. Sorry, simply put, what we're seeing is while a lot of people are going horizontal with these, including in, again, the hyper-converge and appliances, the building blocks are very important to be able to build these solutions in a vertical fashion. So for us, and what we're hearing from the channel is the perfect storm of we need the horizontal building blocks that can be assembled vertically per use case. So they can differentiate. Absolutely, absolutely. Peter, thanks for spending some time coming on theCUBE. Really appreciate it. Great to get your comments here. But I'll give you the final word. Give us your take of the Emerald this year. What is the show about? Some say it's a storage show that feels like, but it's really not, it's more about cloud. But what's your take on it? I did joke with somebody, so I'm a part of that, that if there's proof of the value of overnight, you can't throw a rock any direction without hitting a storage vendor, that's for sure. However, I think it's always been about and continues to be about. It's very exciting to be amongst thought leaders who are delivering these building blocks that are necessary to deliver the end user experience we all know we want. The one where I can have everything I want, how I want it on anywhere I want, contextually. Yeah, I love the DevOps ethos. I love the words kind of being batchedized around. It's really about engineering. Engineering's a great solution. So it is cloud. It's certainly coming down the software stack, leading the charge and the developer story is fantastic. It's about apps and the developers are in charge and dictating terms to the infrastructure. Absolutely. Peter, great to see you. This is theCUBE. We're live at VMworld 2014. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back after the short break. Thank you.


I first noticed my tremor when I was 16, and at age 31, my doctor finally diagnosed me with essential tremor. Any activities that require precise hand movement is very challenging for me. Now with Liftware, I can go out and enjoy meal with friends, and instead of focusing on how I could eat, I can actually look at people and carry conversation. I spill less, and it's very easy to use.


Finally, let's talk about AEI again. I promised we'll talk a lot about AEI, but a development happened since I last talked about AEI that was worth mentioning. You know how I've talked about the fact that I have this love-hate relationship with Elon Musk. There are days where I think he's like a genius, brilliant, and amazing, and the greatest thing ever.  And this week, unfortunately, he's on my bad side. More than a thousand technology leaders earlier this week, including Elon Musk, argued that artificial intelligence labs generally in the United States or in the world really pause development of the most advanced systems and they wrote this in an open letter that AEI tools present, quote, profound risks to society and humanity. AEI developers are, quote, locked in an out-of-control race to develop and deploy ever more powerful digital minds, minds that no one, not even their creators can understand, predict, or reliably control, unquote. According to, this is a letter. It was produced by the nonprofit groups Future of Life Institute. God, what a name. And other people signed this, Steve Wozniak, the co-founder of Apple. I don't believe that Steve Jobs would have ever signed this. Andrew Yang, who was the famous presidential candidate in 2020, and many, and Rachel Brantz are not surprising because she's the president of the bulletin of atomic scientists, which sets the doomsday clock. Basically, they want you to pause. They want six months at least to stop, stop developing. And let's really think about this. I mean, there's so many things wrong with this. Let's stop progress. Why? Because it might have a negative outcome. That's called the precautionary principle in law. The precautionary principle basically said, says that when there's uncertainty about the future, which is always, about what might happen, which is always, every new technology, then we shouldn't develop it. We should slow it down. We should stop. We should pause. We should try to figure out what that uncertainty is. But the future is always uncertain. There was a vox piece last week calling for pumping the brakes on AI progress with the same kind of thing that AI is going to take over the world. It's going to destroy. It's going to kill all the people. It's going to, you know, all AI is biased. Of course it's biased.  Where's AI learning stuff from the internet and journals and newspapers? All that's biased. It's going to learn biased stuff. You can't solve it by stopping technology. Solve it by thinking for yourself. But it's this precautionary principle that is basically retarded the advance of technology in the nuclear industry. It's a precautionary principle that's retarded the advance of GMOs and gene editing and therapeutics in gene editing therapy. It's the precautionary principle that I think has slowed down and, you know, for a long time slowed down the space program for a long time. It still does slow down the design and development of new airplanes, revolutionary airplanes. It is generally, it is what's killing progress in the world. It's what's killing economic growth. It's what's killing new technologies and new advancements that enhance human life. It is one of those vicious ideologies out there. And the idea that Elon Musk missed the technology, missed the progress, missed the advance, future, futuristic stuff is advocating for a precautionary principle on AI. It's just, it's just unbelievably sad. I mean, think of how many diseases are going to be cured because of AI's ability to model and project how drugs can be used or how biological systems work and what kind of treatments will work and won't work. How many lives are going to be saved by replacing us as drivers with autonomous cars, which are run by AI, which is a thousand times safer than you driving, not me driving, but you driving. You know, how many how many lives are going to be saved even with, you know, AI helping us develop cheaper, more efficient and easier to build nuclear power plants. I mean, AI is a massive revolutionary technology that is going to, as I talked about the other day, going to increase productivity of labor, going to reduce costs, going to make us richer and make us more prosperous. And these people are repeating the lies about job losses, about change in society being too fast. We can't cope. It's happening too fast. That's exactly what they said about computers. It's exactly what they said about the internet. It's exactly what they said about iPhones. It's exactly what they said about every, but cotton loom, what was it? Automization of the garment industry in the 19th century. So it really is just unbelievable that Elon could sign up to something like this. It's unbelievable that people like Wozniak and other technologists are willing to sign up for something like this. It's sad. It says a lot about our culture and a lot about the world in which we live, that this kind of, that their behavior is acceptable in any kind of way, and that this goes unmentioned and unnoticed. And look, the scientists developing AI are not interested in seeing the world end. This idea that you can't put safeguards into AI is ludicrous. AI is a human creation. Yes, we might not understand every step in the way in which the algorithm applies to any particular thing, but we understand the algorithm. We can change the algorithm. We rewrite the algorithm. We can put rules to the algorithm. AI is not conscious. It's nowhere near being conscious. It doesn't have its own goals. It can easily be given rules as autonomous cars are going to have to have rules about not killing human beings and safety and all of this other stuff. But there's panic. There's panic of the most primitive leadite type, right? And again, the upside of AI is just unfathomable. It's just hard to imagine how much upside there is. And by playing to these fears, not only did it create distrust out there of new technology among common people, but they're also encouraging regulators to get involved. They're encouraging the government. You're going to see testimony in front of Congress in the months to come about AI, about its dangers. You're going to see people of the highest caliber from Silicon Valley going along Moscow, wasn't it? Going in front of Congress and saying, you have to do something about this. Now, this isn't even to talk about the national security issues. AI is going to be crucial to modern warfare. AI is to logic thinking to run modern battlefields and modern tech and modern weapon systems. And China's not going to pause. And China's not going to stop developing. And China's pretty advanced when it comes to AI as far as we can tell. Now, I think long term, they don't have a chance to keep up with the U.S. partially because of the chip restrictions and partially because, again, they're not a free society. Ooh, that's great. A cloud just came and covered the sun. Makes all the difference in the world. I also look better on video without the sun shining in my eyes, but it also feels better. Let's hope the cloud stays there. Travels west with the sun. Anyway, this is, again, something to watch. This is one of those things that we need to defend. We need to be the defenders of technology, a progress of advancement. We need to be at the forefront of rejecting the precautionary principle. And again, to have somebody who's trying to go to Mars advocate for the precautionary principle when it comes to AI, I mean, imagine you apply the precautionary principle to go to Mars. There are already a lot of people who'd like to shut the whole project down. This gives them more ammunition. And look, the fears are just not legitimate. AI will create more jobs than it destroys. And AI is not a thinking being with its own value system. It will reflect the value system of the programmers. So will it be biased? Yeah. You want it not to be biased, build a better AI. You want it to be objective as AI. Let's build an AI based on objective principles. It can start learning from, by reading, by in a sense, accessing all of Iran's writings. That would be cool. Okay, so we'll keep coming back to this AI story, because I think technology wise, it's it's basically the most there's a good writer, James Pethicoccus. James Pethicoccus, he used to be at the American Enterprise Institute, he probably still is there. But he has a, he has a great sub stack. And he has a great name for the sub stack. I love the name. The sub stack is called faster comma please exclamation point. So faster please. And it's a it's a it's a fantastic sub stack that advocates for technology, that advocates for building, that advocates for economic growth and economic progress that that that is. So if you're interested in any covers the AI issues, if you're interested in these issues and human progress, look him up faster please by James Pethicoccus, who again, I'm pretty sure is with the American Enterprise Institute. But he has a couple of posts on the on the AI thing, and he doesn't have enough followers. I could see just by the number of people who've liked this post, I'm going to like it just to add to my thing that he does not have enough followers. So please consider following him. Thank you for listening or watching the Iran Book Show. If you'd like to support the show, we make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me. You get value from listening, you get value from watching, show your appreciation. You can do that by going to IranBookShow.com slash support by going to Patreon, subscribe star locals and just making a appropriate contribution on any one of those, any one of those channels. Also, if you'd like to see the Iran Book Show grow, please consider sharing our content and of course subscribe. Press that little bell button right down there on YouTube so that you get an announcement when we go live. And for those of you who already subscribers and those of you who already supporters of the show, thank you. I very much appreciate it.


So we have a table here saying why aren't you vegan and it's a debate table. You said that you agree with veganism actually, but then you said you don't agree with animals having rights. Yeah. Okay, so let's unpack that because for me it's entailed by veganism that animals have rights. It's an animal rights movement. Well I guess there's two ways you can conceive of veganism. You can conceive of veganism more kind of like a diet which is you know abstention from animal products, but you can also conceive of it as I guess more broadly as a kind of philosophy about the reduction of harm towards animals. But the neither of those two things necessarily entails the existence of animal rights as these kinds of moral entities. Yeah, that's what I'd say. Okay, I would disagree that veganism is about the reduction of harm. I wouldn't even know what that meant. The original definition of veganism was the doctrine that man should live without exploiting animals essentially. Yes. The word exploitation has some weird implications because like there's many things you can consider exploitation, but I would say that humans should live without violating the negative rights of sentient animals. So your veganism isn't from a kind of utilitarian perspective, rather from a kind of idea of animals have certain rights that humans must not have to violate. Yes, negative rights. So yeah, obviously I don't want to vote and drive cars and things like that. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I would say that human rights are based on inherent value. Yeah. We share sentience in common and that's why we don't want to to be interfered with because it matters to us. What happens to us matters to us. I would say animals share that property with us. Therefore they, that we should extend basic fundamental rights to it as well. And why does sentience entail certain rights being given to bearers of sentience? Because that's the only reason that that are being experienced matter.  Therefore, it would be a direct contradiction of us expecting those rights respected to not extend those to other beings who, although they're a different species, share that property with us. Why would a non-sentience being need rights that don't exist in the conscious space? But you said something like animals have rights because they have sentience. That sentience means they matter. Yeah, morally, yeah. Yes, okay. But where does that matter? Or why is it the sentience has an inherent kind of moral value that say non-sentience forms of existence don't. Also, we do implicitly accept in conventional morality that non-sentience things can have a moral status.  Sorry? Why does that matter? Why does that matter? Well, I would just say it's just disgusting. I don't like it.  Only sentient beings can be disgusted that someone's committing an act of necrophilia. Without sentience, it wouldn't matter. Do you see how suffering can maybe entail by sentience? Yeah, obviously, yeah. Yeah, the fact that someone does something to an object that's not sentient or a body that was sentient, that offends people who are sentient. You know, it's still sentient. That is sentience. That's a metric there for that morality. But now you're saying, okay, so the reason why we disgust is because we have sentience. That disgust does not necessarily entail just because, you know, I feel, I do genuinely feel disgusted of actually farming and I think you're eating meat is pretty gross and so that's why I would support veganism. But at the same time, I don't necessarily think that justifying it in terms of rights because these really rights are just kind of, it seems to me, the very spooky kind of metaphysical concept. I think it's better to base it in a, sorry. Why is it metaphysical and spooky? Anytime sort of normative, so like ought statement is not something that exists in, you can't justify on the basis, it's not something that materially exists. Sorry. So, but the rights are very important to function in society. You have human rights. Yeah, I agree. Do you believe that we shouldn't have human rights? No, no, no. I think we should have like, they're obviously a society. We need to have some kind of like contracts just so that Sounds like a normative. Sorry. We should have rights, human rights. I'm saying the reason why I want to have human rights is because not having human rights leads to a society that I don't think is that I find intuitively just kind of gross, like I don't live in China where I'm having like cameras watching me all the time. Well, I'm talking about negative rights being violated.  Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah. So if you didn't have human rights, I mean, I could basically do that to you. Yeah. If I was big enough gun and you didn't have one. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, so rights are important, even though there's some, and they don't exist in metaphysical, they're not, they're not, you can't grab a right. Yes. You can't tangibly hold a right. But these right, but these rights are a kind of social, I'm talking about rights as a kind of social relation that, you know, the government does give me the rights not to be slaughtered and turned into a burger. Why do you deserve rights? There's not like an objective reason why I deserve rights, but I just, I just want to have them. Why? Why do you want to have them? Why do I want to have them? Because I'm just have like these kind of desires have been instilled in me by evolution.  And obviously being turned into a burger is not very, it's just because of my, the way I've been programmed by evolution just kind of don't like it. You wouldn't want something bad to happen to you for a burger for me? Yeah. Okay. So now if we, if we replace the animals in animal agriculture with human beings, would you think that's morally abhorrent? I think it's morally abhorrent. Abhorrents, like I said, that we use animals in the first place. Oh yeah, you do. So, but why, so, so you believe it's morally abhorrent? We should stop animal agriculture, stop farming animals for burgers? I think if like, if you're like a, like I say, a Masai farmer in Kenya, and you know, you're, you're, you've, you're herding cows in like a natural way. It's what you've done for millennia. And I don't, I don't receive much, that much of an issue with that intuitively. You know, obviously I think the way that we do it in the Western world with factory farming and the kind of modern industrialized agriculture is pretty gross. I'm not gonna, but obviously I'm not, I'm not gonna apply to like traditional forms of agriculture, but yeah. Well, let's talk about traditional then. Because you're, you're opposed to factory farming? Yeah, I am. Yeah. So great. You're opposed to 98% of farming? Yeah, I am. Yes. Is your, yeah, I do, I do try to, as much as I can to avoid meat although I'm not always successful. But yeah, like that, if I'm being, to be honest, yeah. I mean, there are other industries like eggs and dairy and stuff like. Oh yeah, I do. I do, I don't drink milk and stuff. Okay, okay. So let's talk about the, the idealist farm. And I would can, you know, when people say idealist farm in this country, I mean, it's a lot to do with marketing. So whether or not they exist like that. I mean, it's a different story. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I, yes. We can talk about your hypothetical farm if you like. Okay, cool. So what, what, what is the idealist farm that you wouldn't oppose? Well, I don't oppose, let's say traditionalist kind of communities. I mean, these places most exist in like third world. The traditional means of agriculture, as you know, they read, they rear cattle and they slaughter them for food.  They don't like, I mean. So no, no, no, no, no to tell kind of eating, no, to tell kind of eating. Like to me that, I can't really, like obviously the, I think I, if I had to kill a cow, I'd be a bit sad, even if I was, even if the cow has been raised in like pre-industrial kind of states, but at the same time though, I don't really see a reason to morally condemn these people because fundamentally, like if you're a, if you're like a Masai farmer and I think they're from Kenya, you can't, like you can't just go- What does it matter where they're from? Basically, what does it matter if they're Masai from Kenya? Why does it matter? Why does it matter?  Oh, I get what you mean. Yeah, you get what I mean. I'm not going to like morally, blanketly condemn every area of single instance of animal agriculture, but I will, I do always, I think, in just, in just, modern industrialized animal agriculture is deeply gross and we should stop it. Yeah. Okay. So we'd factor factory farming, but like I'm just saying at what point would you support animal agriculture if they were employing practices that the Masai employees to their house? Well, I mean, it's not really sustainable in like a, in the modern Britain, like you can't- Okay, okay.  Yeah, true. Yeah, it's better for the environment. I mean, I'm concerned with human rights in that case. Yes, yeah. I mean, we're having animal rights discussion here because you oppose animal, the idea of animal rights. So I'm trying to figure out here, basically, I'm trying to figure out this idyllic scenario and I believe that in that idyllic scenario, the animals are still having their rights violated. Okay. So- And I want to know why you believe that's justified. Like, so the Masai are decapitating cows. Yeah? Yeah, they are, yeah. I think that ought to still happen. If, say, we could stop it by, say, importing food over there- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why not? Yeah. You think we ought to stop that practice? I don't want to, like, advocate any particular policy that's, because I didn't actually know how it would, if we did import food. Like, I would, ideally, yeah, we wouldn't be killing anyone, anything for food. But in principle- In principle, yeah. I mean, you might not- I'm not asking you to build a framework in practicality to how to solve this issue. Yeah. I'm just trying to figure out, because veganism is a principle. Yes. And that principle, we should, basically, it logically follows our practices in accordance with that principle. Yes. Okay? So I'm trying to figure out, in principle, why don't you believe animals deserve rights, fundamental rights, similar to human beings? Firstly, the way that us humans have rights is we're kind of like implicit contracts between, like, us and the states, and we say to the states, I'm going to, like, not kill you and turn you into a burger, you're not going to kill me and not going to kick time being into a burger. It's a reciprocal contract, you mean? It's a reciprocal contract. We can't really have contracts with animals in that kind of way, but at the same time, just because we can't have those kinds of contracts doesn't mean that we should, like, I think it's right to torture animals in factory farms on that basis. But the reason why I don't believe in animal rights is because it's just a very spooky kind of concept, I think, philosophically, the idea that, you know, the pigeon over there has some kind of rights that are, like, objectively bad to violate. I think that there is... Subjectively bad. So you don't believe that these rights are objective? No, I don't think they're objective. I don't think they exist in objective reality. I mean, I don't think morality is objective either. OK. All right, we're on the same page, yeah. Morality is clearly subjective. I mean, you need a subject to perceive it and to create it and to uphold these things. And of course, I'm saying that our subjective morality is contradicting itself. Yes. And so it's not consistent. That moral framework is not consistent. I'm saying if humans deserve rights because we share inherent value, yes, it doesn't matter if a human being can reciprocate a social contract or not. Because there are human beings who cannot, children, yeah, people who are born with some type of disability, cannot reciprocate a social contract. We still give them human rights. You cannot violate their human rights. You go to prison. Yes. It's based on inherent value.  Yes. Where you're from, what social economic status you're at, we have human rights for universal, yeah? Yes. People violate them. Countries violate them. True, but they're there. They seem to be well established as well. Well... Well, I mean, okay, you know, in the UK we can talk... In, like, they're not... But you just said in different countries they get violated. So it doesn't really show that they're universal. Well, they're supposed... There was a human rights, what is it, 1950s? So there was a universal declaration on human rights? Yes, there was. And it was a promise to... There was only, like, three countries that didn't sign it or something like that. I think Russia was one. There was an A.S.S.S.S.R. back then or U.S.S.S.SR. back then. But most countries followed from this principle that human beings have inherent value, therefore we ought to strive to respect human rights. Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. So what I'm saying is it's based on inherent value and what is that based on? Why would humans matter if we weren't conscious? Obviously, a brain-dead human doesn't matter unless they're... The only reason a brain-dead human matters is because of their family and things like that. Yes.  Yeah. Animals share this property with us, right? Yes. So can you please, for me, I want to ask you... I want to write down these traits too. So basically, I want you to justify why human beings should have these rights and animals should not. And is there some type of trait or characteristic that separates us from animals and what that is? Well, so why should humans have rights when animals should not? Yeah, these fundamental rights I'm talking about here. Well, I think that... What's the trait? It's not necessarily... My argument isn't necessarily that humans should have rights because they do have rights via the social contract and that in the sense that I don't think we should kill animals we should have the right not to be killed for foods that humans... I don't think there's a morally relevant characteristic that necessarily excludes animals from having that rights. So in that sense, I think I'm in agreement with you. Yeah. Okay. You agree with me then? Sorry? You do agree with animal rights then? Yes, but just not as this objective thing. I think... Okay, so maybe we're missing on the idea of what rights we were talking about. Yeah, I think so, yeah. Okay, okay, because I thought that was easy. No, no, no, no, no. We'll have to go through them because basically I was looking for a morally relevant difference as to why humans should have these basic fundamental rights not to be interfered with and enslaved and killed and tortured. Yeah. And why animals should not. Yes. Separating factor was and you basically said I think animals should have those rights as well. We should give them rights in the sense that we should treat them with respect and not torture them in factory farms. Well, not torture them. I'm just saying treat them as property, not respect their... Yeah, so basically animals are considered property even if they're not tortured. And also I can do... If I'm a farmer, I can do what I want to these sheep, isn't it? So I mean, would you be against dog ownership as well then on that basis? No, well, ownership, yes. I think we should change ownership to not the dogs being considered our property. I think we should be considered guardians like we are with children. Yeah, I would agree with that, yes. So obviously animals, you can't just let dogs run around and give them all freedom because that wouldn't be in the animal's best interest. But right now, if I have a dog, I can take them to go get put down or drop them off at the shelter and whatever. Their interests are not... Dogs and cats are difficult because their interests are actually respected more than farmed animals. They have more sort of legal protection than farmed animals, but they're still considered property. Yes. And I think I should change to guardianship and have their interests actually... Yeah, my overall point was that rights aren't these like objective things. And I think the one I most agree with is virtue ethics. I kind of think that we should try and cultivate character traits within ourselves that are inherently kind of have normative concepts built into them. So, example, like being courageous or being kind or being charitable. These are all kind of concepts that have got normative concepts built into them. They are already a value of concepts and we should try and cultivate those dispositions. And I think we should... I think by treating animals with respect, not necessarily the kingdom is kind of a way of cultivating that. So I do... I'm not 100% in any ethical camp, but I do think that's the one I have the most sympathies for. Okay, I'll get you. Like, I'm more in the camp of some deontology but with a certain threshold, I would say that that threshold of utility overridden the rights of that individual. So I'm not saying that like just one person, if you did like... Because you can create some pretty hilarious hypotheticals that make deontology look crazy. You can create really easy hypotheticals that make negative utilitarian look insane too, like five rapers getting pleasure from raping one individual with the utility gain. So, yeah, I'm more of a rights person, but there's a threshold of which I go, well, that's just crazy, you've got to like... So you'd be willing to, let's say, kill someone if it meant that a million people didn't get mutilated? I wouldn't say a million, because then you can sort of justify human testing for medication and things like that. I would probably say it would have to scale up into billions before I would sincerely violate the rights of a billion, maybe, or hundreds of millions. I don't know where that line is, but I know there's definitely a line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, this is why I like virtue ethics because you don't really have to have structure that's just moral rule, you have to always apply. You do have a kind of disposition that you try to follow and you try to balance the various kind of practical considerations within a given ethical situation. My ethics is very much inspired by Aristotle, because Aristotle does say, it is in a way kind of, in a certain sense, egoists, Aristotle's virtue ethics. What's an egoist? I guess it's the real highest value is yourself and your own kind of well-being, however you define that. I do think that is kind of, I mean, I don't want to like get into like, I'm basically saying that we should be virtuous because virtue does, being virtuous does benefit humans. And that's kind of like the primary reason because that's the only real thing we have access to that can kind of give us rights and role. Do you think that would give a good framework for society? Sorry? What do you think gives a better framework for us in society, virtue ethics or rights? Or virtue ethics, I think, because if we kind of, if we cultivate, if we cultivate virtues, then we don't have a reason to have these rights in the sense of, you know, we don't have to, like no one would, no one would like unnecessarily kill animals if everyone was virtuous. Oh yeah, if you can, yeah, but, yeah. Yeah, yeah, but you, that's like, that's talking about, you're talking about brainwashing people into, or not brainwashing them, but you're talking about changing the consciousness and preferences of people into virtuous humans. Yeah. I don't wanna like clockwork orange people into being virtuous. No, yeah, of course. So basically, essentially that's what you'd have to do. You'd have to cultivate virtue within people and hope that they subjectively act in that way. But rights, you can protect people with the rights in law so that it doesn't matter what your preferences are whether you're virtuous or not, you're protected from me from enslaving you. Yes. Let's just say one day on virtuous, one day I wanna enslave you for a burger. You have rights protecting you no matter what. Well, yeah, well, I mean, hopefully you would have like virtuous people in charge who would like obviously try to enforce a certain minimal kind of... Wouldn't you have to violate some type of thing of some type of protection a human has for them to even start coming after you with... Sorry? Wouldn't you have to violate a human in some way? Like you could... Yeah. Like I think rights are a good framework for that. If they violate a human's rights, then we should step in. You know, I think that's why I think rights are good too, legal rights. And I think like if we extend those to animals... Yes. Then it doesn't matter if you wanna eat them or not, if you have some ethic that says, ah, as long as they're having living net positive lives, I can kill them on some Messiah farm. You know? Yeah. You know, it doesn't matter. They have rights and you're gonna get in trouble.  And I do think, ideally we would have virtuous people in charge who will be able to get to some way sort of stop those vicious people. Like let's say, like obviously if someone wants to go, if there is a mass murder on the loose, I would want the state to step in and stop them. Yeah.  What about this? It's killing or violating the negative rights of sentient beings. Yes. Cause that's what I'm talking about. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah.  So let's just say because we have this, we share this property, we share sentience. Sentient beings is what I'm concerned of not necessarily animals or people that we're sentient. That's the thing I'm tracking. Yes. So if we had some law in place that meant we can't violate these sentient beings, that would protect us all. I mean, I wouldn't care if it was virtue or what you called it. If you called it, not called it a right, you called it a virtue, not to do that, but it was encoded into law. That would fulfill the same function as a right. Yeah. So I mean, as long as these sentient beings are protected from this type of slavery or whatever, then I would be on board with that. I mean, you've changed your word right to virtue or whatever.  Applied virtue? I do think we ultimately don't disagree. Like I do think that obviously there should be, in society should enforce certain standards against humans, whether you put them in terms of like subjective rights or like objective rights, it doesn't really matter. But I think, but yeah, I think we basically just do, do we do agree? We agree, semantics differences, maybe a little bit of ethical, I'm just saying this could be laws protecting both animals and humans. Yeah, I mean, I agree. There should be legislation to protect laws and animals. In that sense, yeah, I agree with animal rights. In the sense, I don't think animal should have the right not to be tortured in factory farms. Oh. Sorry. Because I'm not always just concerned with torture. Yeah. Actually, if I wouldn't want you to be tortured, I wouldn't want you to be... I mean, I think like obviously... Other things to happen that don't involve torture.   You have to, you are going to have to rely on animal products. Unfortunately. That sounds like an empirical claim. That sounds like an empirical claim like that. If you have an allergy, then you can't become vegan. I mean, then only in the future, we might invent some way of being able to feed, like feed people who... Is it okay to feed people to those people who have a nut allergy? I mean, no, but feeding a person is to me a lot more intuitively horrible than like feeding, let's say a pigeon. But... So, can you name the trait? Sorry? Can you name the trait between that separates? So... I have more affinity for humans than I do for pigeons. Okay. So intuitively, so it's not some type of... Well, yeah, I mean, like for fundamentally, there is... What I'm trying to say is that just if I... In evolutionary psychology, there is kin selection. Like you're going to prefer people, like things that are more genetically... I get you. Of course. It's intuitive, it's not like a... Yeah, it's not like, it's not like, I've got, obviously I don't want, I wouldn't want the pigeon, ideally, to have to be killed in the first place. But if there's, but like... Who's saying we should violate these animals' rights or have a loophole for a soy and nut allergy where we can cut animals' heads off for this person? If there was someone who literally just couldn't eat, who could not eat vegan products, I would be willing to sacrifice some pigeons for them. Who could you choose to kill to help those people? I was going to say, ideally, we would find a way such that they could follow a, have a healthy diet and also not necessarily kill animals. Yeah, so we would create some... We would create a way to feed them that wouldn't involve violating human rights. Yeah, yeah, but my point, the reason why I said, because I mean, how do we get onto this point? I mean, you said, I said I didn't want to torture animals, and you said, I think you said that you... I said I didn't... We should ban the fact that we're farming, basically. I wouldn't just use the word torture, because there are ways you can raise animals for food that don't involve torture. I mean, yeah, obviously, yeah. Like, I wouldn't describe, like, pre-industrial, like, farming processes in, like, Africa as being kind of, as being torture, even though they do involve animal dying, which obviously makes me sad, but yeah. Murdered not dying. Sorry. Animals die, but they are murdered against their preference to live, which is... Well, I mean, murder, what is murder? It's unjustified killing, and I do think, like I said, it's not that hard for these people, it is hard for these people to just go to the shops and buy a kind of chickpeas. They are kind of... I still think it's a violation of animal rights, whether you're in a situation...  I've still violated your rights. Yeah, you did, but it wouldn't be like... If, let's say, you and I... Did you say it's justified that I did that? If you and I were stuck on a desert island, there was literally no other, like, there was literally no other nothing that we could eat, and we eventually had to resort to, like, fighting each other to the death, and the loser gets eaten. No, no, not each other. You were a victim. You didn't want to kill me.  You were vulnerable against me.  He's vulnerable. I don't care.  Well, at that point, like, we don't really... We're kind of in a very, very different kind of moral situation.  Is it just... Well, is it just... It is? Well, at that point, like, the only justification is just, might makes rights. Exactly, and it doesn't, does it? Sorry? And it doesn't, does it? Well, in that situation, it does. I wouldn't say so.  Maybe we should just let each other... See, he dies first, you know what I mean? Really? I'd prefer... Yeah, like, see, he dies first.  But, like, I just think we allow too much for people to murder animals, actually. We allow a little too much and we say, oh, yeah, it's okay if they're in some situation. But I would say they ought to still respect animal rights. They ought to still have the... The...  They still still strive to... But, obviously, this in, like, in the far, far north of, let's say, Alaska, there's not actually... They can't really get anything else to eat. Like, well, what else are they going to eat, like, fruit? Well, in the future, let's just say, you know, we have animal rights and we're really trying to change a food system and then people shouldn't live in places that have no way of getting their food other than murdering animals. You know, I think that we should either get food to them or get the people out of there into somewhere where they can get access to food that isn't murdering animals. Because all I would say to you is, would it be justified if you put humans in place of the animals and human beings that are in a place where they can't get plant food are actually enslaving and killing other people? And I would ask you, what would you do in that situation? Well, yeah, I mean, obviously, yes, if it was humans. I mean, I am still saying it, yeah, it's not ideal that they're having to kill seals in Wales. Yeah, you see that there's a more of a... They're in a bit more different circumstance to the average person. So, are you a vegan? Sorry? I agree with the principle of animals. I don't... Wherever I follow a plant-based diet, I do genuinely... I have a thing around, on average, like, one meal that involves meat a day. I do generally... If there is a vegan option, I will have it. That is my... It's something I need to improve on, but that is my... So, you agree with the principle of veganism? I agree, yes. But in practice, you don't follow it, so... In practice, I don't follow a completely plant-based diet, yes. Okay, how do you morally justify not being vegan? Yes, I don't... I am unjustified. I accept I'm unjustified in eating meat. So, why do you do it? Why do you do it? Let's analyze why we do it. Okay, cool. Because it's easy. It's easy. It's convenient. It's easier than it's convenient, and everyone else does it. And I just... I can't... Let's say I lived in India, I'd obviously have... It'd be a lot easier to be a vegetarian in India. It'd be a lot easier for me, or to be a vegan in India. But just in the current... The way things are, if there is meat available, I will sometimes, given the temptation, I'll eat it, yeah. So, you accept it's unjustified, but you put convenience. Convenience, and you put easy... Oh, easy is convenient. You said it... Well, it's basically just convenience argument, isn't it? Oh, no, no. I mean, it's also to be honest, taste. Like, I won't lie, like, a lot of... There is a lot of vegan food that does not taste the best, but... Convenience, taste, and what about habit? Yeah, it's just a habit as well. I mean, it's culture as well. I know you said everyone else does it. Sorry? So, social norm. Social norm. Well, I mean, that just makes... That is basically just like a subset of convenience, isn't it? Social norms allow you to do this for convenience.  So, you would be chastised by people, wouldn't you? Well, yeah, obviously, people apply double standards to dogs. They apply different standards to dogs that use accounts. Yeah, I agree. So, now, let's just say that the dog tastes really good. Yeah. So, we've got taste. Tastes good. Dog. It's still unjustified. I agree, yeah. Yeah. It's a habit to eat dogs. It's a social norm to eat dogs. Yeah. Well, you'd probably be eating dogs, though, wouldn't you? I probably wouldn't. I'd probably be a lot more intuitively disgusted by that. And I would be by accounts just because it's so normal. Even though it is, I do find intuitively disgusting that accounts are raised in factory farms and killed. And, yeah. So, I would... Obviously, if you did go to the local Sainsbury's in Cambridge and replace all the meat with dogs, then, yeah, I'd be a lot more... I would probably be a lot easier for me to go vegan because I do have a lot... Just based on my own, like I said, proximity to dogs, I would always find that a lot more into, like, just viscerally objectionable than I do account, just because accounts have just been like normal food my entire life. Even though I do accept that, yes, it is disgusting, I would like to stop, but it's just not... It's just difficult. So, I'm trying to find... I'm just trying to find... Because now you've got this line here, like, okay, you wouldn't choose the dog. No, I wouldn't choose the dog. So, what animals here? You've got cows. Yeah, cows, fish, chicken, whatever, yeah. The normal... So, would you avoid pork? Um, pork, I actually really like pork, because that's like a taste thing, but I do sometimes eat pork, yeah. Okay, so you went... Okay, so we've got cows, you can probably have a lamb here and there. On this side here, you've got, basically, all of these animals that are culturally normal to eat. Yes. But you agree, like, let's just put dogs in here, we'll put elephants here. On this side. Let's put monkeys on this side. What other animal would you find morally repulsive to eat? I mean, it... Not morally repulsive, let's do this. An animal that is kind of normal to eat, I don't eat its duck just because it's... Oh, you don't eat duck? It's quite, yeah, it's quite easy to refuse to eat duck, and I just don't, yeah. You don't eat duckies? I don't eat ducks, no. Is it something with something? It's just, I mean, I find eating ducks like intuitively grossly eating cows for some reason. It's just like, I don't know why, it's just something in my psychology. Okay, and then we've got dog, elephants, monkeys, ducks, humans. Yes. So you're in the shop, one side you've got cow, one side you've got human. Yes. Let's go to humans. Okay, cool, yeah. You understand that by buying these products, right, you're essentially creating the demand for... Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I'm raising demand for factory farming. I fully admit that, yes. Not even factory farming. I'm just talking about, let's just say it's a free range cow. Okay, cool. A lot of cows in the UK are free range, they go indoors, say, in the winter. But a lot of cows, let's just say it's a free range cow. They go to a slaughterhouse to be bolt gunned in the head and decapitated. Yes. Yeah. So when you purchase this product, you're putting that into demand. Yes. And you're using these justifications, convenience, taste habits. You said it's unjustified, but you still do it. Yeah, I still do it, yes. At what point? So obviously if it was a human being, you can imagine a human being going to be decapitated in the slaughterhouse. You could even say it's a human child or something, just sort of make it sort of equalized to the cow in terms of their consciousness, mentality, intelligence. Yes. You wouldn't purchase that knowing that the human was killed for that, mate? Well, yeah, it would just be a lot more intuitive, easier for me to not buy this human because I would find that immediately viscerally more disgusting than I would if I saw minced beef. But... If it was minced human. If it was minced human, yeah. I would obviously find that intrinsically just more disgusting, partially because I am kind of biased by evolution, which is that I don't I am kind of evolved to see humans as being more being more morally valuable than I am a cow, just as like a brute fact of my psychology. So all of these beings here, right? Like all of these beings here, that are eggs and dairy cows also, they're all sentient beings. Yes. So when you lump them all in together, right? We are all sentient. Yeah, that's true, yes.  A monkey and a... We all share this. We're all having a subjective experience. Yes. Human beings, we might have a little bit more of a... You know, we can... We got voice boxes. We might have a more abstract the war patterns things. Yes. But if you... But really we are all... What matters is not like whether we're super intelligent because we still protect humans that are not super intelligent. Yes, I agree, yeah. So we're all sentient beings. So you basically, you have a clear double... You know you have a double standard here. I have a double standard. Well, I mean like in terms of my actions, I have a double standard in terms, but I do recognize that it is unjustified no matter the animal. Like I do have a kind of... Like I said, I do act... I am contradictory in the sense that my actions do contradict my beliefs, which I do accept, yes. Yeah, you accept it, but you wouldn't ever... I don't think you would ever purchase chopped up human being from the supermarket, right? Yes. And that's because of society and this and that, but you honestly have an ethical problem with that. Like... I have more of a problem with eating human than I do with eating cow. Throughout civilization... Let's just say throughout civilization there's been cannibalism throughout civilization. Let's just say it become a social norm. It was a social norm to eat humans, right? But then you recognized, hey, I'm actually killing someone who's like me. Yes. Sentient like me. Would you not wake up from that and go, wait a second, I want to participate in a social norm? I mean... Wouldn't you just go, wait a second. Like a vegan has gone, wait a second, I want to participate in a social norm. Yeah. And you would just boycott it. You'd go, I'm not paying for that. That's horrible. But then it would be still pretty difficult though. If I were to be raised in cannibal city and all the meat that's available is human, every single meal I've ever eaten has involved some kind of human product. Let's just say I had to walk an extra five minutes to get the plant-based food. Yeah. And to avoid the human food. Would you do it? Yeah. Yeah. So even that convenience wouldn't stop you from avoiding humans. Human flesh. Yes. I mean, what if it tastes 20% better? If we're talking about like if I've been raised in cannibal city my whole life. And yeah, maybe the convenience might be a little bit of an issue. But obviously if it's- But you've woken up now. You've woken up cannibal city.  There's murder in animals. I murdered humans everywhere. What am I doing? You're starting to freak out. Obviously I would be a lot more. Like just the kind of psychological shock of the situation would obviously make me want to walk an extra five minutes to get the chickpeas or whatever. But why aren't you having this shock?  There's not much difference. It's marginal. It's marginal.  Especially if you talk about a human child or something like this. Like I don't see how you're getting- I'm going to boycott this. I'm going to walk five minutes from getting this human flesh to- You know what? It's a bit hard to remove from the cow section into the plant based section in the supermarket. So you agree in principle. But I don't think the practical sort of pans out for you. It still seems like it's only like- Think about it. It's probably like a five to ten percent increase in inconvenience for you. We're not talking about a lot because you live in the UK. We've got many apps and many ways to help. There's vegan sections all throughout the supermarket. You know, it's pretty easy. So you're talking about a five to ten percent in inconvenience. Yes. Well, I mean, I think firstly I don't really cook for myself that often. I usually eat in halls because it's just convenience. I'm a student. But generally, if I do see the- Let's say I've got two options. So they've got a kind of vegetable stew on offer and then they have turkey. I'm going to pick the turkey just because- Does it taste better? It tastes better. And also, I don't really- Vegetables shouldn't taste that nice. To turkey, I'm more able to get my macros in more easily and stuff like that. And then I might eat vegetables. You're concerned with macronutrients? I'm concerned about things like protein and stuff. And I do accept on a vegan diet. So a vegan diet is perfectly capable of getting- You're perfectly capable of getting like vegan bodybuilders exist and stuff. But at the same time though, when you go vegan, you have to plan your diet. You have to make sure you're getting things that you'd normally get from meat like B12, iodine, stuff like that. Micronutrients like that. And also- Yeah, there's some health things. Yeah, I like that. Do you track your nutrients and protein at the moment? I do sometimes, yes. You do use chronometers? So how much protein do you get a day? I use chronometers. I used to get like around 130 grams a day, I try to aim for. Not always successful. That's a lot, that's a lot. More than what you would need, I think. But I think that's- I work out a lot, so I need- Okay, that's fine. Okay, if you work out, if you're an athlete, yeah, it's good to shoot for about that. But yeah, you can get that easily on plant-based diet. So obviously not a justification anyway. You don't think that these are justified anyway, but I'm just wondering why they haven't moved your needle to- Like, because the taste, you're talking about like, okay, so vegan food, right? Yeah. When you talk about taste, and you talk about like an animal being decapitated, yeah. You're talking about like a vegan food taste good. I prefer tofu curry to chicken curry. I agree. So there are, there is like, there will, if there is, if I go to let's say, if I go to a restaurant, they've got tofu curry, and they've got chicken curry, I'll pick the tofu curry. Because, but both because I think it's, I actually prefer the taste of tofu. Okay, well, so you're letting, so you're basically thinking, when you're going to eat, you're thinking of your preferences. You're not thinking of morality, it doesn't think like, because you haven't facted reality into it. So you agree with the proven vegan principle, but you haven't facted in morality to your, to your choice there. Like, like I said, it's just difficult when I've got, when you have moral principles to balance that with your kind of, firstly, your kind of more, yours like, based desires to eat meat, because meat tastes good, and your desires too. And I guess also it's a little bit like anxiety. You don't really want to be like, you don't want to be the gut of the vegan on the table. It's a bit, yeah. Okay, so you've got social anxiety here too? I mean, that is a factor. Social anxiety? It really shouldn't be for me, but. Okay, so because you don't seem very anxious, you sat here and talked to me. You seem pretty confident. I mean, I saw like, I saw like, I saw like fit. I do start to have a little bit. You're debating animal rights with me? I know, I know. He was animal rights activist. He was just like, she seemed pretty confident. No, no, no, no, no.  It's like hippy vegan. Well, I mean, you're talking to a vegan of 10 years here, bro. You're talking to someone who's, Anish and who was, I did much of an education. I left education at 14. I was in prison. I had a drug addiction. I wasn't, I didn't have, I didn't have a step up in my, you know, when I first went vegan, I was definitely, had a step down from your average person. You know, so I still managed to do this man. I know this was 10 years ago, 2013. And I didn't live in the UK where veganism was founded and where they have most of the soup fast food places who have vegan options here. And you're talking about in a country that is like one of the easiest places on earth to be vegan by far. The only country that comes close, I think maybe might be Israel, but like the UK. Yeah. So now we've got convenience here. Seems like we should almost strike this off the list. I mean, maybe I would say that you haven't tried. I need, I should probably try to like, because if you tried, maybe you would realize that you didn't have to try it all that hard. Yeah. I mean, it's just like, it's just a matter of find like it being, well, I think if I were to go vegan, I would have to probably start cooking for myself a lot more because I didn't really trust my, I go to the most shit college in this university and the canteen's usually got like one vegan option that's not correct for you. You just recently put on plant-based meals, dude. I did hear about that, yes. So it's convenient. It's convenient. Well, I mean, it's like, you're not waiting for me to say that, are you? That hasn't been like, that hasn't been like. The Cambridge cafes are going full vegan soon. It hasn't been in comments yet. The cafes, yeah, is it? But I mean, does that apply to the colleges though? As well. I think you're working on good, okay. But like, yeah. But you have to walk. I'm Lucy Kev. Let me just, let me just put this into... Okay, cool. Let's do it. Okay. So I'm you. Yeah. You are the cow now. Yes, I'm the cow, yeah. You are going to be decapitated. Yes. And I just used all your excuses that you just delivered to me to do. Yeah. Is, what do you think of that? I obviously think it's unjustified. There's no debate about that, but yeah. It's not justice, is it? Yeah. So you agree with animal rights? Yes, I do. But you oppose animal rights in your practice? Well, yeah, like I said, I do have mental cognitive dissonance in the sense that I do, yeah, I do affirm. Whenever I do get the, whenever I do get the turkey or the chicken, like, yeah, this is, this is kind of up, but at the same time. Does it taste good enough? But at the same time though, it's convenient and tastes good. And it's just like, yeah. So basically, what do you think the animals would care more about the victims here, would care more about whether you say you care about animal rights or whether you actually apply that out in reality? Well, yeah, they obviously like practice only matters, yeah. So then, because they're given the knife in their throat when you demand knives in their throat. Yeah, I agree. Like obviously, like it doesn't really matter what my intentions are, yeah. Yeah, yeah, because I can say I agree with human rights, but then I can go out and just punch people and slay people and be like, you know, but in principle I agree with it, you know, like, and I could eat human burgers and be like, you know.  I don't think any of them are justified, by the way, but yeah. Well, yeah, I don't think anyone needs to meet out like a genuine like sadism towards animals, yeah. No, but it is, yeah. I think the animals, the victim wouldn't care why you're doing it, really. The victim just wants to be liberated and have some type of protection. Yes. Mm-hmm. Um, your, your demand matters, what you do matters. Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, I would implore you to make maybe a change. All right. Well, I'm, like I said, I am trying, although it, well, although I'm not very successful, I do think I could be, I could definitely be putting in more efforts. You are very smart. Yes. You sat here and held a very high level conversation here with me and you definitely, you can't use, I can't do it because you know how capable you are. There are people in, in situations where they would need a lot more help and some people's countries don't allow for this ease of access to food. So you're in a very, we are in a privileged position here. I agree that I probably could do it very easy, but just I don't want to, I mean another thing that is like, if I'm offered me, I don't want to turn it down. Like if, if I offered you a human burger, would you turn it down? Yes, but that's because like I said, it's just like. What's the trait difference? What, what's the difference? I, I just have like an intuitively more like visceral reaction to that, you know. But ethically why would you, if you didn't have the visceral reaction, so I gave you a, a Xanax or something and you didn't feel that disgust. Yeah. Would you see a moral issue with you accepting the human burger? I would, yes, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. So you would turn down the human burger? Yeah, I would, yeah. So, but you wouldn't turn down the cow burger? You have a problem with turning down a cow burger? I would struggle to turn down the cow burger just because it is so normalized and automatic. So accept the cow burger, yeah. But ethically you would have no issue with accepting the cow burger because you wouldn't want to make it like a social, socially access situation by turning it down. Yes. Hmm.  Yeah, that's unjustified. So on, yeah, on the, yeah, obviously. Yes.  Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah. I'll, I'll try and put more effort in for you then, yeah. Not for me. For the animals, I know. For the animals, I know. For the cows, I'd say yes. Yeah, for like, oh yeah. But I know I do need to apply. It's something you do when no one's watching, I suppose. Yes. It's up to you because what you do matters in an eminent to cross the world. Yeah. You can be the change you want to see or you can just be part of the problem. It's just like a habit I have to get into of avoiding animal products. That's not that hard because it might seem hard right now, but it's really easy because I would say you're more intelligent than me just holding this conversation and I can tell that you've been, you've got more education, you know. So, but I'm saying I could do it when I just got out of jail, facing addiction, like I had no money addiction and I did it because it was the right thing to do because I was trying to change my life around, I wanted to do better, you know what I mean? So, if I can do it, then you've spoken to me.


You need a financial advisor with the freedom to focus on your specific needs. Whatever your goals, Reeve Potter can create a game plan tailored to you. Call Reeve at 432-0777 at Pikeville, Kentucky to learn more. Garrett Area Volunteer Fire Department will be hosting their second annual First Responder Cookout to honor all the first responders, public safety officials, and medical personnel. We decided to try to start doing something through the Floyd County Shrine Club as well as the Floyd County Masonic Lodges to honor and support our first responders out there. Not only our first responders, but our public safety officials, medical personnel as well. Last year, for a start, we were able to feed 384 first responders from four counties in one day. This year, I hope it's going to be a little bit better and a little bit bigger, but basically it's just to try to help those that help us. 70% of Kentucky firefighters are volunteers and are responsible for protecting most of rural Kentucky. The Cookout will also be honoring lesser-mentioned first responders such as tow truck drivers, road workers, utility workers, and corrections workers. In the state of Kentucky, those are what's known as public safety officials and being one of those myself working for the highway department. We're out in adverse weather conditions as well as your public utilities trying to make sure that the power's on, the roads are safe. Even with our tow truck operators, they're working out here on the roads during dangerous conditions or even normal conditions can be dangerous when they're there by themselves. So we want to include them. We want to honor them as well. The Cookout will be held June 18th from 11 to 4 p.m. at the Floyd County Shrine Club and is open to all first responders in eastern Kentucky. Delivery will be available to those located in Floyd County. To order delivery, call<PHONE_NUMBER>. For Mountain Top News, I'm Brianna Robinson.