Bananas are supposedly one of the best things you can eat to help you fall asleep at night, and they do the exact opposite to me Bananas are like a cup of coffee at night. Is it because phallic-shaped fruit turns you on?  I'm Corbin I ate banana and today we're on to episode 6 We are almost done technically even though there's four episodes left Almost done with the first season and the second season is quickly approaching And everybody was really scared that we weren't gonna get it was really sweet to see all the messages saying you got to watch Just before the next season comes out. It's gonna be ruined for you. I'm sure the new trailer is gonna come out here soon but Last episode where did we end off? What happened at the end it's a good question. That's a good question. What happened at the end? You know any any many things I've done since we watched that Anyways What did happen on that last episode well, I know the big buff guy obviously is getting more accustomed to killing They're bringing those two more into the fold in terms of the business. Yeah. Yeah, but but and also and psycho Mono, yeah, yeah You know is all clearly getting starting to plot with Abhishek to kill his dad Yeah, anyway, so on episode six. This one's called barfie, which I don't know has to do with the sweet barfie or Something yeah, and probably Priyanka Hey, but if you are seeing this on YouTube, it is cut up No permission from Amazon as of yet Unless it's by the time this is post on YouTube. I don't know But it's I I don't know how long of just cut up highlights of depending on the episode of how many highlights there are and then you'll see our discussion at the end because we we they Amazon has not given us permission and they blocked our but all locks and Family men's and we don't want to copyright strike with them So if you'd like to see the full-on cut version though, you can head over to patreon and the patrons were very upset the other day Because we only posted one episode and they're used to their two episodes a day and they're like oh They were getting spoiled So we're here now patreon. Don't worry. So yes called barfie and let's just get into it Okay, three two one God I'm guessing he signaled him to kill him. I like that actor. I'll say it every episode. I love the theme song What would you rank it in terms of the four of the three the four series we've seen it is my favorite. Yeah Yeah, it's definitely the longest Yeah, and it's just it's it's the ball's theist I guess those are pictures of his son I Want to see that actor in In like an epic historic He'd be a great like villain live. He's built like Jason Moama Yeah, he's got and he's got a great face. I just would love to see him in a historic epic Yeah, so clearly clearly he was letting him know get out of here or we're gonna kill your son There everybody in the show is so good. I Have the same outfit. I think I look just as good. Oh Oh, oh, that's not good.  He's not gonna forget that Oh Tripathi is intimidating man. I love him. He has such great presence. That's how they ship the opium Dude, that is not Yeah, yeah, we've known that I just forgot it. I forgot.  Yep And surprisingly there was no death this episode. I think this was the first episode Where nobody got murdered or or violence of any kind just a tight slap on Muna Well, it was a violent sex scene Yes It was nothing but violent So yeah, so now so he's on to them. It's so interesting. This is not where I thought the series would go These two kind of Going up in the world and of Of the underground I didn't that's not where on the first episode. That's not where I thought this was would have went Me too So that's that's really interesting because I like them It's very it's a very similar shit like breaking bad Those right yeah, those two characters. It's you know, they're starting out with you know Being drug mules basically you're trying to figure out how to get the guns to another place It's basically like Walter and and Jesse starting starting the Another right and now they're getting the feel for it. Yeah, and yeah, one of them's about to turn into Heisenberg Which will be sweet, I love trypathy like so much I do too. He brings such a weight and presence to all of his performance, but especially this he's bringing Al Pacino Brando Godfather Wait to this performance In and how you know that is like when When he was the good the guy slapped his son, right? He hardly said anything and he was And I think that's I think that's one of the things that you can really attribute to good actors is when though like They don't have to really do anything to portray What they wanted to portray they're just they embody that whole right that whole feeling and I feel like that's what he's That's what he brings to this Yeah, the same thing when he was talking to the two guys and they realized What it was they were doing and he said so when we were delivering the body and the carpets We were also delivering opium and all he did was look at them and Shift his eye to the other one. Just he's he's extremely grounded extremely internal extremely He really clear choices he made about this character before they started and again Such credit goes to Abhishek his casting in everything. We've seen on every episode that he's been involved in his casting is Fantastic. Oh, yeah, 100% every role. Yeah, every role is just so well done and I'm wondering what's gonna happen next How many episodes is this season nine so we got three left you know The proverbial crap is gonna hit the fan.  I don't think we get out of season one without some key people plural at least People that have been main folks in this Story, I think at least two people die before the season's over at least I don't think it'll be trippity because I Just I find that I find that Hard to believe That they take That actor and kill him.  They killed Nawaz technically, but Obviously he was in the rest of the series. So I Guess they could do something like that, but like it just seemed odd to me if they Went that route. I could see a Hulk the big buff guy dying Which would be really sad Or or his girlfriend and then that makes him go even crazier. I Really, I really feel like anybody's up for grabs. I really do. I feel like either the dad Or one of the kids is gonna shoot the other The lawyer I feel like one of anything anything's possible. I feel like one of them is gonna kill the other. I Don't know. I Don't know, but it's a great series. It's a great series So let us know what we need to know down below no spoilers obviously don't give us any spoilers If you'd like to see the full unedited version Where we're watching the entire thing. It's over on patreon. Once again Go check that out and hello to you patrons. Thank you so much for your patronage and You


Hi, everyone. Our talk is on application modernization with Camel JavaScript and OpenShift. My name is Wuxin Zhang. I am an Associate Consultant at Rahat. And my co-pilot of my presentation is Yipsan, who is an architect at Rahat. So application modernization. There are five parts to application modernization. For service endpoint, we migrate web services to APIs. For architecture migration modernization, we want to break down monolith into standalone microservices because they are easier to maintain and to share the code. To modernize development process, we want to modernize waterfall approach to CI-CD so that you can release on a daily basis, like agile transformation. And for deployment, we want to modernize virtual machine on-prem to containerize images. And lastly, for infrastructure, we want to move data center to cloud. Integration points. Before, on the left-hand side, we have a big cluster of dependencies. It's hard to cut out a piece of the application to modernize because in order to modernize the application, you also need to identify the dependencies to modernize at the same time. And now, we have this graph on the right-hand side that shows once you have an application to modernize, you can create clusters of dependencies, meaning we are breaking down the dependencies into smaller multiple clusters. So instead of having one giant cluster, depending on each other, we have small clusters of dependencies. In doing so, we can maintain low-lists. So Camel, what is Apache Camel? Apache Camel is an upstream project that we use for integration technology at Red Hat. Apache Camel is Java-based based on enterprise integration patterns. Apache Camel started its life as an implementation of the Enterprise Integration Patterns book. It comes with 300 components out of the box you can use. Integration can range from simple timer to log done examples to complex processing workflows, connecting several external systems. Camel has built-in data transformation, intuitive routing, and provides native rest support. Integration patterns. As developers, we know that the model application is deconstructed into smaller pieces. The more you need better communication patterns for managing all the inherent complexity. Camel has been shaped around enterprise integration patterns since its inception, and developers have created a DSL that often maps patterns in a one-to-one relationship. These patterns are agnostic of programming language, platform, architecture, and provide a universal language, notation, and fundamental messaging and integration. Camel continues to evolve in adding new patterns from service-oriented architecture, microservices, cloud-native, and serverless. Camel has become a general pattern-based integration framework suitable for multiple architecture. I am not exaggerating if I state that Camel DSL is the language of enterprise integration pattern. It's the language that expresses better than most of the patterns that were present in the original book of integration with other patterns that have been added by the community during all these years. And the community keeps adding patterns and new components in every release. In this slide, you can see that we have a split orders pattern that splits the order from a larger order and have each item be sent to either electronics or other areas. Apache Camel is a powerful integration library that provides lots of integration connectors. As you can see, there are hundreds of Java libraries that use Camel connectors using Camel and point notations. These URIs are also universal. Here are more examples of Camel components. You can Google Camel components, and you will find a lot of them. Camel routes. So like I said before, Camel has multiple domain-specific language for DSL. It supports XML, Java, Groovy, Kotlin, and, of course, JavaScript. There are good reasons to use both Java and XML DSL. Camel route expresses the enterprise integration patterns. It gets the developers into thinking in terms of pipes and filters, for instance. The DSL is a technicality that will not impact the success of the project. You can even mix and match. So in this slide, you see that this is a one-to-one integration between a file and a jmsq. At runtime, it does not matter for Camel whether you write it in XML or Java. So more examples. Here, from a file called inbox, we split the body based on its line. For each of the lines, we turn it into a custom XML. And for each of the XMLs, we send it to an active MQ called line. Integrations are great for connecting systems, data transformations, as well as creating new microservices. REST DSL. Camel also offers a REST-styled DSL, which can be used with Java or XML. The point here is for end users to define REST services using a REST style with verbs like get, post, delete, and et cetera. The REST DSL supports the XML DSL using either screen or blueprint. Here, to define a say path, we can set the base path in REST say, and then provide the URI template in the verbs. It also accepts data format setting. OK, let's talk about Camel JavaScript. In this sample, we use JavaScript function to create a predicate in a message filter. The message filter is Enterprise Integration Pattern. It allows you to filter the messages, obviously. For example, if the predicate is true, the message will be routed from QA to QB. This route path routes exchanges from an end user to a special queue. We can write this in Spring DSL as well. Here's another example of Camel JavaScript. As you can see, the integration written in JavaScript is very similar to a Java one. Here, from the timer tick, process a function that prints hello, Camel K to log info. To run it, you just have to execute Camel run and the name of the file. For JavaScript integrations, Camel K does not yet have an enhanced DSL that you can access to some global bounded objects. In this sample, we're using context.get, component of the previous log component, and use exchange for matter property to do something like this. Camel script context. JSR 223 lets you use the power and the flexibility of scripting languages like Ruby, Groovy, and Python on the Java platform. Camel supports a number of scripting languages which are used to create an expression or predicate via JSR 223, which is a standard part of Java 6. Camel script context is extremely useful when you need to invoke some logic. There are now in Java code such as JavaScript, Groovy, or any other languages. Properties is the attribute of Camel script context. As you can see here, before Camel 2.6, 2.9, if you need to use the properties component from a script to look at property placeholders, it is a bit cumbersome to do so. However, since Camel 2.9, you can now use the properties function, and the example is much simpler. Here, in this example, function with a resolve method makes it easier to use Camel properties component from scripts. You can also load scripts from external resources. You can do so by referring to external script files. For example, to load a Groovy script from the class path, you need to prefix the value with resource, as shown. Camel dependencies. To use scripting languages in your Camel routes, you need to add a dependency on Camel script, which integrates the JSR 223 scripting engine. Here, if you use Maven, you could just add the following to your palm.xml file, substituting the version number for the latest and greatest release, and you can see the download page for the latest versions. So with the introduction of Camel and how Camel supports JavaScript, let's talk about Camel K. Camel K is a deep Kubernetes integration for Camel. Camel K runs natively in the cloud on OpenShift. Camel K is designed for serverless and microservice architectures. For those who are not familiar with Camel K, Camel K is the sub-project of Apache Camel with the target of building a lightweight runtime for running integration code directly on cloud platforms like Kubernetes and Rahab OpenShift. So we learned that Camel is a Swiss knife of integration. Camel K is for serverless Camel for Kubernetes and native. And we also have Camel Quarkus, which runs on top of Quarkus and enables developers to write small, fast Java applications. We also have Camel Paraff, Camel Spring Boot, and Camel Kafka Connectors. These are all the Apache Camel 3 projects. So Apache Camel K configuration. In order to run Camel K, you'll need access to Kubernetes or OpenShift environment. However, Camel K works best when it's run natively on Knative. Knative is a simple pre-built component to publish and subscribe from the event mesh. Let's take a look at the performance of Camel K. Camel K runtime provides significant performance optimizations. This graph shows the performance of Camel K without utilizing Knative and serverless technologies. Compared to binary source to image deployment, Camel K has lower deploy and redeploy time. If the binary runs remotely, it is even slower. Notice that redeploy with Camel K is almost instantaneous. So how does Camel K work? Well, developers just want to deal with the business logic and not deal with the runtimes at all. They want to integrate systems and become serverless. What they can do is to write Camel routes in a single file. For example, here we have a Camel route written in XML. And how does it work with OpenShift and Kubernetes piece? Well, at this point with Camel K, you only have an integration file. This file says from some sort of timer every second. So you can write ID, set a header, and send it and log it. So once we have a cluster prepared and the operator installed in the current namespace, then we can say Camel run with the K. Camel K comes with a command line tool called Camel with the K. So Camel run, and you can do Camel run and then the name of the file. The CLI can automate the taxes on the developer's machine, such as observing code changes, streaming those to the Kubernetes cluster, printing the logs from the running pods, and et cetera. Note that you don't have to specify any dependency specification in the folder that you wrote your integration.gruv file because Camel K will figure that out for you and then inject it during the build. So all you need to do is just write the application. In this case, the Camel binary will push it to the cluster and the operator will do all the tedious footworks for you. At first, the first time you run your application, it might take up to two minutes to start, since it needs to pull and build the image for the first time, but the next bill will only take a few seconds. Once it started, you can find the pod running this application on OpenShift. Here's what the pod looks like on the OpenShift console. The pod runs in the cluster. This can also be done with OpenShift CI tools as well. Once logged into the OpenShift cluster, the Camel K CI will then use that to run the integration on the OpenShift cluster in this project and deploy it from here. Next, let's talk about how to deploy JavaScript on OpenShift. So the deployment for OpenShift is based on containerized images. So the first step is to identify and find the base image for your JavaScript application. You could find it from the Docker Hub or Quay.io or GCR.io. So the image needs to match your specific JavaScript version. And once you have the image, you could start working on your Docker file. And then with the Docker file, you could do the Docker command to build the application image. Basically, this is a S2I process that will merge your code from your Git repository with the base image. That generate a new application image for deployment. So this is the high-level architecture of how the deployment work with the Camel K application. On the left side, on the box, you have your local machine, your dev environments. You have your IDE. And once your coding is completed, you do the use the Camel CLI command to execute the program. What it does is it does do a live update to basically trigger and send an update to the cloud on the right-hand side. It will trigger a notification to the Camel K operator in OpenShift. The operator will get notified and then deploy the latest change to the pod based on the integration definition. Whereas the surface architecture is autonomous, it's loosely couple, right? In the modern days, people have talked more about microservices. The idea is that we want to make the microservices single responsibility, single purpose, stateless, right? All this specific application program stay will be moved away from the microservices and kept in some sort of persistent voidum claim or databases, right? Each microservice is independently scalable and they could also be independently automated. And then on the far right-hand side, we have serverless architecture, right? Serverless is based on single action, right? And this is also temporary. So when we talk about Camel K native profile, so this is an example of a workflow. On the left-hand side, you have some sort of Camel definition. You see from the form attribute, you see that this is getting the information from the K native channel and then the two attributes saying that it get the information from K native channel and send the information to the specific HTTP my host API path. This is a very simple Camel definition. You put this into a YAML file, right? This YAML file has integration as a kind, right? The API version is using camel.rpachi.org version one alpha. And this is an example of a YAML file for deployment in OpenShift, right? So once you set up the YAML file, all you need to do is to pass this along to the Camel K operator. When the Camel K operator got notified, the operator will look at the file and make a decision. Is it a K native profile, right? If this is, yes, this is a K native profile, then it will generate a new YAML file, set the kind to surface and then use that new file for deployment, right? If this is not a K native profile, right? In this case, this is just a deployment object, right? Then it will generate the new deployment kind YAML file based on the information and use that for deployment. So this is a high level architecture of how the Camel K operator would work. Serverless and K native. So now it's really important to understand how we could apply K natives to serverless. Serverless is basically is an execution model where the code is executed by a dynamically allocated resources. When you have the code available, it trigger a notification and the resources got spin up to execute a specific piece of code, right? Serverless removed the need of traditional deployment model, right? You know, the traditional way is you always need to have some sort of server component that were deployed to handle the specific deployment, but serverless took away that concept, right? Everything is on demand, right? K native is an open source Kubernetes based platform to help you deploy and manage serverless workload. So between, when we talk about K native, we need to define the different component, the building blocks of K native, right? For the serverless application. So K native contain two pieces, serving and eventing, right? Serving is based on your service object. It could scale to zero when I don't need to use the surface, right? Or it could scale up to as many instances it need when you have a peak at the traffic, right? And this is, the service model is a request-driven compute model. When I need it, I will ask for it. When I don't need it, I will scale to zero. Eventing is based on the event binding, right? When you have a specific event come in, right? Usually a lot of time is coming from a message in Q, right? The Q come in and say, hey, you know, we need to do this specific operation, right? And when that event comes in, K native will spin up the resources required to do the computation for the event, right? So each building block is a quad operation, right? With a controller, and that manage the life cycle. So in K native serving, for example, we have a chemo script coming in while it's doing a west call, doing a post to a specific path. And then you have to write to system one to system two. So basically, when this script comes in, you will create a Kubernetes name space. Inside the name space, you have the K native surface that will spin up, right? There's no container if no one is using it, right? So this is all on the name, right? So for this also help you reduce the operational cost, right? It's much faster deployment to the market. It will help you reduce packaging, deployment complexity. And then at the end, right, is a flexible, scalable on-demand solution. And you can see this chart on the left and on the right, right? The left side show a traditional IT organization, how much they were overpaying, right? Majority of the time on the yellow line, right? Your demand is on the red line, but you need to basically have a 20%, 30% margin to make sure that you cover the demand. When there's a peak on the day of Thanksgiving, right? You are not able to meet the demand, right? So this is a traditional problem of predicting the usages and computational resources that a lot of ITB department were having difficulty. Can MoK stay between microservices and serverless, right? Underneath that, you have Quarkus, right? Quarkus is also an important component that is also kind of between microservices and serverless. And Knative is completely serverless, right? And then you have swimming, AM queue, messaging queue. Those are working, you know, could be both microservices and serverless. And then underneath that, we have OpenShift. So the event-driven computation is happening between the messaging queue, Knative, Camo, and Quarkus. For microservices, we want to ensure that the services have granularity and security. For distributed integration, right? We want to be able to set up different containers when we discover services available, the container got spin up, right? And then at the same time, we have container that coming on the other side of the picture where you need to track the API transaction management using Saga, right? And then you can see why this container application architecture could get very complicated because you could have container in different size of the architecture diagram. And then at the end, right, they all need to communicate with some sort of centralized databases on the right-hand side. So when this type of distribution application comes in, right? So one of the best practices to handle this, right? Yeah, so here we talk about Saga pattern that we use heavily for application modernization, right? The Saga pattern work like this, right? You have multiple surface services. You have surface one, surface two, surface three, and surface four, right? Each surface has its own compensation object associated with the surface. So what happens is when you have surface one making a call to surface two, right? And then when surface two make the call back to surface one and then you need to make the call to surface three and then come back, right? Each step, the compensation object will get notified, right? In that situation, it could basically hand based on the request and response it could make a decision, right? Should it continue making call in the orchestration surface orchestration or should it go back, return the call back to the caller and do something else, right? So this is a very useful Saga pattern that can handle surface orchestration. You can see we can set up a set of integration point between the Saga and the Camo, right? And the first Saga, we're basically saying that I'm making a population to make the surface call and this is a mandatory propagation, right? And then in the compensation model, you can say direct cancel booking, right? So this is my compensation model and then to specify where this is coming to. This come to a specific SQL database and it is doing a insert into the flight table with the specific value, right? So you can see your Saga can be set up in a way that in a Camo format where you can specify the source, the destination, the condition, right? And what to do to handle specific exception, right? So the lower section of the Saga is the same thing as well. We set up the header. This is HTTP header is a post and then you're posting the to request to HTTP endpoint. So for the source to image deployment, right? You usually get the code from the Git repository and then from there, we, as soon as the code got pushed, we pushed to the port. We merged the code with the base image and generate an application image for deployment. So the configuration injection is a common pattern where we can inject the specific configuration doing the deployment. So for example, in OpenShift, we have the config map. Config map is an object that whole key value pairs. So when we deploy the application for application one, it pulled the information from the config map and use that information for deployment for application one. And similarly, application two, follow the same design pattern. OpenShift operator contain an example of the Red Hat OpenShift serverless. And once serverless is clicked on, you can go here and specify if you want to do a basic install. If you want, you can specify specific version, for example, I want to do a version 4.6 for the operator, for the OpenShift serverless. Once it's installed, you can see that the install operator is in your screen here. In conclusion, CamoK is a lightweight integration framework that one natively on OpenShift. CamoK is also designed for serverless and microservices architecture. The Knative Egg component for deploying, running, managing serverless cloud native application in OpenShift. The serverless cloud computing model lead to an increase in developer productivity, reliability in the cloud deployment and reduced operational cost. CamoK and Knative provide a fast and scalable solution for application modernization, architecture, and Camo integrate with different technology, different languages with reliable results. Next, we are coming from Red Hat Consultant team. If you guys have any specific question, please reach out to Red Hat Consultant.


Hello and welcome to the session. Let us discuss the following question. It says in a notary a person chooses six different natural numbers at random from 1 to 20 and if these six numbers match With the six numbers already fixed by the notary committee, he wins the prize What is the probability of winning the prize in the game? To solve this problem? We need to know The result of the combination which says that our objects and objects Can be chosen in the our ways and we also need to know the probability of any event e Which is given by the number of favorable outcomes to e Upon the total number of outcomes. So this knowledge will work as k idea Let us now proceed on with the solution Now we are given that the person chooses six numbers from The natural numbers 1 to 20 So here six numbers are to be chosen 20 so there are 20 numbers and we have to choose six numbers So six numbers out of 20 numbers can be chosen in 20 see six ways so there are 20 see six ways to choose six numbers that means there are 26 see six possibilities to Choose six numbers. So the total number of outcomes is equal to 20 see six Which is equal to 20 factorial upon? six factorial into 20 minus six factorial that is 14 factorial now simply find this becomes 20 into 19 into 18 into 17 into 16 into 15 into 14 factorial and six factorial is written as 6 into 5 into 4 into 3 into 2 into 1 into 14 factorial Simplifying this We get the total number of outcomes as 38,000 760 Now according to question we have to find the probability of winning the prize now to win the prize Person must have chosen a number which is Fixed by the lottery committee and there is only one such possibility So here E is the event of choosing a number and to win the prize. There is only one such possibility So the number of outcomes favorable to equal to one so the probability Choosing one such number is Equal to the number of outcomes favorable to E upon the total number of outcomes So the probability is one upon 38,000 760 It's the question and the session. Bye for now. Take care. Have a good day


the roller coaster of life and work for startups. So we have five panelists with us, and we know the startups are very progressive, and they have opened a massive job opportunity, and there's no hierarchy also. But there's one thing, you know, one point which struck is, you know, they don't have a good work-life balance. So the session is all about that. First of all, I want to know why. So, you know, why the startups have got a bad press for, you know, not a good work-life balance? So, yeah. So, as a startup eco-culture, you have like tremendous, you know, expectation from the customer because it's a battle of existence. And as a startup, you have to, you know, stand out in the market because you need to, you know, establish yourself and, you know, maintain that existence in the market. So as a startup, you have to be very proactive and, you know, fight for existence. So that way, startup itself is a high-performance culture. It's promoting high-performance culture. And that way, employee also need to be, you know, performing high. And in that pressure only, they will have to be available all the time. You can say, the rife is like, after working hours, they will have to, you know, give some output on holidays, on weekly offs. So it's all about, you know, battle of existence. And that way, with startup, their employees also has to be, you know, work hard for, you know, meeting demands. You guys agree? So, essentially what happens is the rate of complexity that goes up in a startup versus the rate of talent density that goes in a startup don't match. So what lands up happening is what large companies do is, they cover this gap with process. And in the startup, what you don't have is process, right? So a lot of it is just brute force and passion that pulls it through till you're big enough where you need a process, right? So effectively, you can't expect fast growth. And also, a work-life balance also have good compensation, also not have hierarchy. So you can't have the KKN82. I think it's more a trade-off. Smart people know what they're signing up for. And I've also seen, I was telling the panel before, backstage, where someone in a startup quit. And we asked, why did you quit? And he said that, first, if there was a problem in the company, then they would come in the sub-call at 2 p.m. And we used to solve it there and then. Now, there's a problem at 10 p.m. We'll see it tomorrow. If I had to process a big company, they would join a Unilever, right? Why would I join a startup? I joined for the hustle. So I think it's a double-edged sport. I think if it works for you, it works for you. And as such, I just think work-life balance is a problem to be solved by an individual than a company, right? So, yeah. So I think just, I think Karthik articulated it very eloquently. But just to add, I think there is, in a startup by design, there is a lot of ambiguity in chaos, right? And people sign up for it. Entrepreneurs are extremely passionate people, right? There is hustle, there is a lot of passion, right? And what unconsciously happens is this long hours that happens. And I think all of us on stage, and here are guilty of going through long 16, 18 hours for weeks on end, right? So I think that's where, and resources are finite. Funding money is finite. Like Karthik said, there are no processes. There are not enough people to do stuff. There's probably somebody who's doing the job of five people, right? So all of that adds to the complexity and the hustle, and all of it adds to the stress or the burnout that can happen. And obviously the success rates of startups, right? I think 90% of startups fail, right? 10% of startups fail in the first one year. And I read this interesting stat somewhere that 5% of the startups fail because of the burnout that founders experience, right? So all of these aspects kind of, the amalgamation of all of this kind of leads to what we see in some of the startups today. But everybody is not used to the hustle culture. So how do you try to balance that thing for the employees? Any strategies you guys employ or you think should be deployed? Well, I'd love to hear about strategies to solve that. But the point is like Karthik mentioned, I think the first part is that people sign up for a startup knowing there is hustle. People sign up because they want to work and grow faster. And there's this, whether that's true or not, startups have created this aura that you grow faster if you work closer to the business. So I worked before in cities. So people used to leave city and join a startup because they felt that they'll grow faster there. They're closer to the business. They saw business problems and do that. But the problem is if you don't embed a culture of positive pressure, right?  But if you don't bring in something like positive pressure, which means that the way that you're working is gonna impact or what you're working on is gonna impact. Either the end customer, the stakeholders, the board, the company, et cetera. Once you bring in that, there's a purpose. Once you bring in purpose, I think the pressure that you're talking about literally goes off, right? At least in the mind of people. And I think that's the big point there. You bring in purpose, you talk about impact. You talk about the reason why you exist and reason why the company exists and why each employee or each team member is a part of it. And it becomes a lot more easier. That's my view. Yeah, I think it depends on the stage of the startup. But in general, startups work in a very uncertain situations. So to make the uncertainty happen, there has to be a hustle. And when you're hiring, it's important who you're hiring. So when Columbus was about to set out sale to discovering US, he put this hiring board, right? So he needed people to actually save with him. He said, I may or may not deliver any goal to you, but I'll promise an adventure, right? So only those seeking such an adventure have actually joined him and they would never complain that they've actually joined for something that they might die, right? So these guys were seeking adventure. I think early stage, it's important that you hire only those guys. If you're hiring only for the sake of giving out money, make sure these are not crucial critical roles. So this is, I think, more important. And late stage companies, the founders, they're one level down leadership and then maybe two level down. If these guys are driven, I think that is enough. The rest of them can actually have reasonable work-life balance, but if those are also passionate and working hard, they will see growth growing very fast. So I think it really boils down to the people, their aspirations aligning with the startup at various stages. Can I just add something? I think unfortunately somehow it has just become a threat, Raja Praja Culture in the sense our engagement surveys, our glint surveys are designed. Oh, are you happy? Are you recognized? Are you motivated? I think what we have done is at least we flipped it around and we said, did you do enough to stay engaged at work today? Did you do enough to talk to five new people in the company, right? I think a lot of times what lands up happening is there are certain influencers who land up creating something what I called as an illusion of majority. So if I'm an influencer and I come and say, are there work-life balance problem? Because I'm an influencer, everybody starts believing sub-class work-life balance problem. So I think fundamentally a lot of it is to be, just fundamentally, right? So ask someone why were you late for a meeting? Oh, I got stuck in the other meeting. So you're saying the chair held your leg and said don't go. No, you chose to stay in the other meeting. I think a lot of times most people just make disempowering choices. I was stuck in traffic. No, you started late. I can't get up in the morning. No, you can't sleep on time. So what has happened is work-life balance also has somehow become a problem for one side to solve which I effectively feel is such a disempowering way of solving it because you're seeing the employees helpless and now company has to do something. I just somehow feel we need to just change the narrative of the question itself and say, did you do enough to have work-life balance? Did you say no where the meeting was not important? You know what I mean? I think it's not autocracy happening. No, I think a lot of things, right? One is obviously walk the walk and talk the talk, right? If leaders are being mindful, taking breaks, they have to, right? And lead by example, right? And have very clear boundaries set up that will automatically cascade to their teams, right? And then obviously to periodic check-ins, you have conversations about how they're feeling, what they're doing, right? But to Karthik's point, I think the onus is also on the employee, right? To make sure that he or she is setting those guardrails, setting those boundaries for themselves, right? Because walk-life balance is different for different people, right? And they need to understand and that stems from purpose that Ganesh talked about, right? And kind of, we often talk about something called, we don't talk about work-life balance, we talk about something called work-life integration, right? Because the kind of jobs that appear at a lot of the organizations that we work with have our global roles, right? You've got to be available across time zones. So you've got to kind of evolve that time that works for you in a way that is not leading to stress or chronic stress or burnout or whatever that might be, right? So I think it's all of us coming together. Leaders, companies, culture, the employees themselves taking accountability and responsibility for making sure that they're not getting burnt out and they are excited about what they're doing day in and day out. We just heard that you should recruit for the start-up means people who are ready for it, you know? But if you have recruited somebody who's not ready for this culture, how do you ensure that he doesn't leave, he or she doesn't leave in the beginning itself? I can speak for that. So I think when someone joined, right? Whether they liked it or not, if you were to retain them, there are two things that motivate people. One is money. The other one is being connected and feeling belonged. And that onus lies on the founders. The initial HR people, like startups do not have any HR, right? It's the founders who actually play the role of a HR and that's a good thing because they get to work closely with the person and their personality, their aspiration and their purpose, if they're able to impart to this particular team, you would have absolutely fantastic retention even with those people who have not subscribed to a typical start-up culture. I've had that success reasonably well and I believe the onus lies on founders, their storytelling ability and making them connected with the environment. No, it's very heartening to see your founder talk about it, and it's very nice because when a person joins an early-state start-up, the responsibility of making him, her or them actually successful lies with the person who actually recruited them. That goes for other companies as well, but more so for a early-state start-up. Sometimes we call them early believers, right? So you literally are risking your life. You don't know if your next one salary is gonna come and the person's actually joined you. So when you start at the top and then you create that culture of being, I mean, showing the person the way how the day-in, day-out work needs to operate, and that comes from a founder, then that's very inspiring. So I think that's great that Vijay has actually brought that up. And that's where the responsibility of the founder actually comes in. Okay, let me be the devil's advocate. One, I think if it doesn't work for someone, they should leave. It's okay, right? I'm like, has anyone seen Tesla's employee handbook? Tesla's employee handbook says anti-employee handbook. It says this culture is not for everyone. It's okay. I'm like, nobody's wrong. This culture doesn't work. And one, I think people should do enough research. It's not just employers who need to do ref checks. I think it's also important employees do ref checks. Kiar, why did the earlier person leave? What's the history of this position? How many people have left this job in the last five years? What has the company done? Maybe speaking to some ex-employees, maybe speaking to some current employees. So I think it's just about a rigor.  If you join, of course, founder plays a great... Storytelling is very important for people to stay. If you're smart, you'll quit. You love it as why you go through the pain. So effectively, I think one, of course, if you believe this story is gonna compel this person to go through this, otherwise, just the most kindest thing you can tell someone is this is not working out. I think the definition of kindness is not just being nice. At times, just saying the most important thing that the person maybe needs to hear and is not nice to hear, right? So I think what we really need is more authenticity rather than mollycoddling. I just feel we'll solve things faster. I was just kind of adding to Karthik's point, which is essentially that I think the owners is also on organizations to very clearly and explicitly lay out their culture. I think there's an organization called HubSpot that has published a culture playbook which is available publicly. So any candidate, prospective candidate, is expected to go through it before they come for an interview. So there is, if an organization, whatever it might be, says, hey, there is gonna be a lot of puzzle, the candidates need to know it. And then they make a very conscious choice of whether they wanna join the organization and be a part of it, right? So I think that's the way it works. And I think specifically on the point of, we spoke about founders playing a very critical role. At FreshWorks, we talk about what we call a tripod, right? Which is three aspects. One is the learning and the growth that comes in the role. Second is the growth, right? Your promotions and all of that. And third is the monetary aspects of it, right? And even if one leg is longer or imbalanced, the tripod falls, right? So it has to, we have to make sure that all of it, in a very balanced way, grows so that the employee is happy and it's a very sustainable way of building an organization. All right, and you also touched upon, the panelists also touched upon the topic of processes not in place in the startup, in the beginning. But can we think about putting the processes in place like, you know, I understand the culture is such and you're still building a startup, but some sort of processes that are already there in the corporates, can we? Yeah, that's the aspiration for sure. You don't intend to work in a chaotic environment anyway. But I think the problem is, it's a fine line to tread between being a process-driven bureaucratic company versus being a company where there's a lot of empowerment, there's appetite to fail, right? And innovate, therefore. So it's a very fine line to tread.  I'm not saying they shouldn't be, but they tend to be more compliant to the processes that you put, which makes you become less innovative. But of course, the reason why, when we move to later stage, we try and bring professionals from say larger companies or people who run these processes is because of that itself, the intent or the aspiration is to become a good process-driven company because you obviously need to get better audited, you need to move towards becoming a listed company. So there's a lot of work towards that, which the processes actually take care of. That's again my point. Okay, lastly, I want to ask, can outsourcing? No, I think your first part, it's not the big which is eating the small. It's the fast which is eating the slow.  So essentially, every time you want Zepto in 10 minutes, Uber in three minutes, Pizza in 30 minutes, and then these startups are the ones who are delivering it. So if you want instant gratification, it doesn't just come with process. There's a lot of chaos at the back end. And I'm sure outsourcing is possible, but would you want to put a one month old baby with a crutch, right? So timing of when you outsource something is also important, right? So I think, is the baby big enough to understand the cons that come without sourcing are important? I think it's far more, I think what he said, what stage it is, right? Kartik at 18 wanted something very different from the company with Kartik at 22, and Kartik at 30 today wanted something else from the company. So at her stage, what is important to me keeps changing, right? And hence, outsourcing is a product of what is important. Now process is more important, speed is okay. So that's when you outsource. Yes, I think a lot of organizations are trying to outsource the mundane repetitive tasks. That's where bots, automation, all of that comes into play, right? So the idea is to make sure employees are spending, I mean, you can't completely wipe it out, but to a large extent, spend time on things that are meaningful to them. And if you can kind of bring down the repetitive mundane administrative tasks for employees through technology, whatever it might be, I think that is gonna play a long, that's gonna go a long way in helping employees stay more motivated, engaged, et cetera. Anybody wants to add? So yeah, I think outsourcing always help because there are two types of outsourcing. When there is internal incapability, you can always have some kind of experts people advising you or coming for some time and helping you to fill the gap. So this is one kind of outsourcing, which build confidence in your existing people that can be of short term. And also there are many work which is sort of non-important. For that, we can always outsource and keep down the burden of existing people. So that way, outsourcing always help according to me. I think early stages, it should be zero outsourcing because every function, you would want to explore what is actually gives you the competitive advantage over a large company that actually probably already been outsourcing. I would say that seed, zero outsourcing, series A, zero outsourcing, maybe when you crossed 400 employees' trend, that's where you could actually think about outsourcing, like he said, Karthik said, non-core functions. But otherwise, for startups to stay competitive, it is actually important that they specialize and figure out their competitive advantage on any function, whether it is sales, customer success, or development, or any of these core functions. It's important they figure out what is best for them.