This is Wayland Chow and welcome to Contract Law Fundamentals, Module 3a, Part A. In this part, I'll show you some simple examples of typical contracts that you may have entered into in your day-to-day lives and then explain what is a contract, especially compared to other agreements that we might enter into and then point out that the law of contract arises from common law and then go over the five essential elements of a binding contract and go into detail about the first requirement, which is an agreement that is formed based on an offer that is accepted by another party. What contracts have you entered into? When most people think about contracts, they think about very formal written contracts that are signed involving large important transactions that many of us enter into in our lives. Things such as a home purchase or getting entering into a two-year, let's say, cell phone contract or any cell phone service contract, buying or selling a business or even registering for college. When you register for college, the college is agreeing to provide you with an education or a specific program of courses in exchange for the payment of tuition by you. What a lot of people don't realize is that many of the transactions that we enter into every day, the small and insignificant transactions also involve contracts. So it could be things as simple as buying a coffee at Tim Hortons, which involves an agreement by Tim Hortons to provide you with a certain type of coffee, certain size of coffee in exchange for the payment of the purchase price or any time you buy something at a store or online, that involves a contract or even just getting onto a bus when you pay a bus fare in exchange for being able to get transportation on the bus. That is a contract. What is a contract in law? A contract is defined as an agreement that is legally enforceable. So there are two components to that definition. The first component is an agreement and the second component is that the agreement is legally enforceable. What do we mean by legally enforceable? It means that if one party fails to live up to the agreement, in other words, they're in breach of the agreement or in breach of the contract, the other party can sue to have a court enforce the agreement. This module covers the common law of contract, which is a law of contract found in common law countries such as Canada, UK and the US. It does not cover civil law jurisdictions which may have different rules for contracts. Civil law jurisdictions may include the province of Quebec and various continental European countries such as France. The fundamental rules of contract law come from what we call the common law. What that refers to are the legal principles arising from decisions of courts in common law jurisdictions. It's based on the legal principle of stare decisis, or in other words, the doctrine of precedent, which means that a court in making a decision has to rely on legal principles that have been stated in previous decisions. The common law of contract, however, may be overridden by government legislation. For example, in the area of consumer protection, governments have passed legislation intended to protect consumers. In some situations, a contract between a business and a consumer, which may otherwise be valid under the common law rules of contract, could be ruled to be invalid as being an unfair contract or a contract that is abusive towards the consumer. To form a valid binding contract, we need five essential elements to be satisfied. We will examine each of these elements in further detail. The first element is an agreement that has been formed by the making of an offer with an unequivocal acceptance of the terms of that offer. The second element is an intention to create legal relations. The third is legal capacity. The fourth is legal purpose. And the fifth is the exchange of consideration between the parties involved in the contract. The first and most basic element of a binding contract is an agreement. An agreement involves an offeror making an offer to enter into a contract to another person, an offeree. And that offeree accepts that offer. An offer is considered to be an indication of the offeror's willingness to enter into a contract on certain terms. And an acceptance is the unequivocal acceptance by the offeree of all the terms of that offer. To help us understand the rules of offer and acceptance, we will be using a scenario called Daria and Jamal. In this scenario, Daria and Jamal are classmates and friends. Daria is thinking of upgrading to a new laptop computer. One day Daria says to Jamal, I need some money for a new laptop. Do you want to buy my Apple laptop for $500? Jamal says, I will buy your laptop for $500. So what has happened here? Daria has made an offer to Jamal. Jamal has accepted that offer and therefore there is an agreement between Daria and Jamal. Let's now change that scenario just a little bit. Daria still says to Jamal, I need some money for a new laptop. Do you want to buy my Apple laptop for $500? Jamal this time says, no thanks. And then a day later Jamal says to Daria, I've changed my mind. I do want to buy your computer for $500. So the question is, is there an agreement? Let's now look at the relevant law. Under the common law of contract, on the rejection of an offer, that causes the termination or the death of the offer. Once an offer is terminated, that offer can no longer be accepted after that rejection. So is there an agreement between Daria and Jamal? Jamal's rejection of Daria's offer causes the termination of that offer. There is no offer for Jamal to accept after that time. Therefore there is no agreement. Let's change our scenario a little bit once again. So Daria asks, do you want to buy my Apple laptop for $500? Jamal this time says yes but only if it includes your iPad. Daria says no way. And Jamal replies, okay I'll take just the laptop for $500. The question again is, is there an agreement? Let's now look at the relevant law from the common law of contract. Specifically the rules regarding a counter offer. A counter offer is considered to be where an offer responds to an offer by indicating a willingness to enter into a contract, but on terms that are different from the terms of the offer. Keep in mind to have an acceptance, the offer must be entirely accepted, which means that a counter offer is not an acceptance. Therefore we do not have an agreement when the counter offer is made. A counter offer has the effects of number one, rejecting the offer, and the second effect is that it creates a brand new offer. Sometimes a reply may not be considered to be a counter offer, but instead is considered to be an inquiry. For example, if Jamal had said would you consider throwing in your iPad with the laptop? That's not a counter offer. It's just an inquiry back to Daria to see whether or not she would consider also adding the iPad into the deal. An inquiry or an inquiry does not terminate the original offer unlike a counter offer. Let's now examine the legal effect of each of the statements made by Daria and Jamal in this scenario. The first statement by Daria was do you want to buy my Apple laptop for $500? That is considered an offer to be made by Daria to Jamal. Then Jamal says yes, but only if it includes your iPad. The legal effect of that is that Jamal is making a counter offer to Daria. It's not an acceptance since it is not a full non-conditional acceptance of the offer made by Daria. Jamal is not saying I'll buy the laptop for $500. He's saying I'll buy it for $500, but only if it includes something else, the iPad. So it's a different proposition. So the effect of the counter offer is that it causes Daria's original offer to be terminated. The next statement is when Daria says no way in response to Jamal. That's considered to be a rejection of Jamal's counter offer. It has the legal effect of terminating the counter offer. And the last statement when Jamal says okay, I'll take just the laptop for $500. That's considered to be a brand new offer made by Jamal. Now that statement, you could mistakenly think that that statement is an acceptance by Jamal of Daria's original offer when she said do you want to buy my Apple laptop for $500. But remember, a counter offer terminates an offer. So since Daria's original offer was terminated by Jamal's counter offer, that original offer by Daria can no longer be accepted by Jamal. So therefore no agreement has been formed. No agreement yet because a brand new offer has now been made by Jamal. And now it's up to Daria to decide whether or not she wants to accept that offer. Let's change our scenario once again. Instead of speaking to Jamal, what if Daria had placed an ad on Craigslist stating used Apple laptop for sale $500. And Jamal saw the ad and responded by emailing Daria saying I agree to pay the $500 you are asking for the laptop. Is there an agreement between Daria and Jamal? What an item or a service is put up for sale. If it's in a retail store, you'll usually see the price indicated on the shelf where the item is displayed or the price could be on a price tag that's affixed to the item itself. Or another way that you find out that something is for sale is you see an ad and the ad could be online which is probably the most common place you'll see ads these days but in the pre-online world you would see ads in newspapers and magazines. And another place you'll see items or services for sale are on companies' websites, e-commerce websites that are designed to show people what's for sale and what the prices are and allow you to order online. The old-fashioned version of an e-commerce website would be a physical catalog like the old Sears catalog. Now all of these things, they're not considered to be offers but they are considered to be something called an invitation to treat or specifically they are presumed to be invitations to treat. Now an invitation to treat legally is not an offer. So the seller or the person who put up the ad or put up the display or the website is not making an offer. They're only making an invitation. They are specifically inviting people who whoever sees the ad or the price tag or the website, they're inviting the people who see it to make an offer for the item that's for sale. So the invitation to treat is only an indication of a willingness to receive offers. So was there an agreement formed when Jamal responded to Daria's Craigslist ad? The answer is no. The ad is considered to be only an invitation to treat, not an offer. Jamal responded to that invitation which was the ad by making an offer to Daria saying that he's willing to pay 500 dollars for the laptop. So that's considered to be the offer. The offer is made by Jamal, not Daria. It is now up to Daria to decide whether or not to accept Jamal's offer.


Alright, Brie asks, it seems as if a small number of sociopaths have dominated all of human history, Hitler, Stalin, etc. Is this true of would some other person do the same thing, what can we do to expose commented future bad actors so I mean I don't think that can't be true first of all if that were true then we wouldn't be here right we wouldn't we'd be we'd still be in caves or whatever histories be dominated ultimately by good now too little too rarely but what moves the world and what dominates the world is good otherwise again human life would be short miserable with the pathetic everything Hobbs thought it was and I also don't like calling these people sociopaths because they are guided by you know they might be but why being in psychology into this they are guided by particular ideas these ideas have consequences they are fulfilling those consequences and and I think it diminishes the world of ideas in what they do but just say yeah there's a bunch of crazy people out there doing horrible things and somehow they attain power somehow they're successful once in a while or dominantly as you would say no I mean for every Hitler and Stalin there was an America and a Britain that stood up to them and defeated them and there were good people on that side not ideal people Churchill was not ideal if you know Churchill but he was good when it came to World War two and even FDR was good when it came to World War two at least once the war was declared and and you know even though he was terrible before and so there is good in the world and good constantly is defeating evil notice the good constantly now too little too late but it does defeat it again otherwise you wouldn't be here so it's the way to look at the world is not unfortunately we learn history by focusing on all the horrible things that have happened we don't learn history by focusing all the great things that happen but again this put aside politics for Hitler and Stalin there is a there's a Newton and and there's an invent of the steam engine and there's an inventive of a chip technology and 99.999% of all the people who've done great things in the world you don't you've never heard of and they've done phenomenal things I mean the story of history is not a story of monsters it's a story of what's good in humankind think of it as a you know a giant or a hero you know making progress and being stung and set back by gnats and then occasionally the gnats warm together you know into some giant horror thing and then he beats it down but he never gets rid of the gnats and the question is why where are these gnats coming from why can't he you know get further and they're a constant presence and they're a problem what they are is something that's impeding the the good not some of them are for and also I really second the why sociopath I mean if you're not a licensed clinician forget the license license if you're not like professional clinician I think you should in general strike words like sociopath and anything that has like a diagnostic flavor from your vocabulary it's almost everybody uses these words as like fancy ways of saying jerk but if it's a fancy way of saying jerk just say jerk if it's more than jerk or you know something a little spicier than that it's because you have some specific scientific theory about what's causing this and how it worked it functions very likely that series false but if it's true fine but you've got to know it and that's the commitment in using that term I have no idea if Hitler had this or that diagnosis or even if the diagnoses are valid and then in any case what Hitler was not of particular impact historically what was of in there are always bozos like that around vicious evil people like that with whatever kinds of personality issues he had what's significant about Germany in that period is not Hitler but what it was that there let one of those guys come to power as head of the country whereas usually those guys aren't running a whole country right it's the other Germans that are the problem not Hitler and what's the cause of the other German if you want to look for your grand evil figures in history it's the people who are propagating the worst ideas so can't not Hitler but it's it's how they came to power and even about cotton you want to know like why was that influential why do these bad ideas if you take contest the source and we're not arguing for that now but of the source of some of the ideas that led to to modern problems it's not just he came out of nowhere like why were those ideas influential you want to think about like what is it that people are doing in their thinking that that makes them susceptible to wrong and what is it more importantly that they're doing when they're being right and how can we double down on that and excise the wrong thank you for listening or watching the Iran book show if you'd like to support the show we make it as easy as possible for you to trade with me you get value 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Okay, hi guys. Thank you so much for joining us. So you know where you are. We'll talk real quick. This is a speech-provided speech story about that. We are solo. We are an application networking company very aligned to the networking and the ceiling vision that Thomas has. So it's actually working very nicely. We believe is that the future of the networking is the piece of an open source project that we each choosing to make a big haul. We work with a lot of customers for the during the last years and we kind of like notice a pattern and that pattern, we're calling it cake. And what did we see is that the vision is that those project that we all know, right, Scylium for CNI, MBN slash STL for service mesh, Kubernetes for the orchestration platform Envoy proxy for the layer seven and Spiffy for identity, is basically the layers and the piece that we need to do the future of the networking. Now, it's very simple which each of those layers are actually come together and responsible to. We started with Kubernetes which is basically the orchestration. Then Scylium was doing layer three, layer four connectivity. What's going on? Then a workload entity with Spiffy Inspire, East West connectivity policy with MBN and STL and last and not least, basically the ingress and egress API get way with Envoy. So now is that true, right? Why, how did we came with that conclusion? So honestly, you know, usually we, our community is basically following a lot of the hyperscalar. So let's see what they think about that. And what we say is that Google is actually aligned to that vision 100%. They are using Scylium 100%. This is what you basically know, data plan, V2 using it for the CNI. They are using STL intensively. As you know, they are the founder of it as well as going to a really soon MBN. That's where we're working with. Kubernetes, you know guys, that that's what they're using. Envoy proxy with traffic director as well as Spiffy and Spire. If you're looking at Microsoft pretty much aligned, the only thing is that they do not have get way that is Envoy based yet. We'll see if they will come. But they are very aggressive going on to the service mesh. I think that was their announcement. I expected another announcement this conference. Okay, so what about Microsoft? Microsoft is always the strange. Amazon, that's what I said. Oh, I meant Amazon. It's a very, very different cloud. They usually follow up, right? They really need to get a conviction for the community that that's the direction. This is why eventually they launch EKS. But if you're looking at the rest, they're basically, if you're looking at the rest, you know, they don't really have the right solution or they're not following the community. They all will have to say that they're really aggressive on us on the NBN and STO. So, you know, that's the way they're basically leveraging by partner. And then Red Hat, again, same thing. I mean, in the nutshell, it's they supporting the same stat. And honestly, way more customers. So now let's talk real quick on STO. Really just in line in case you don't know what it is. It was launched with Google IBM and Lyft in 2017. It's a really, really diverse community. And I think this is the key. A lot of companies contributing to it. It's very diverse community. But forget about that community. I can tell you as a customer, we have over 200 customers that we are using, that using STO in production. And we're helping them from everywhere. So most likely you are using it as well. As you know, it's part of the CNCF now. So it's announced and it's graduated recently. So it's a well, you know, robust project. And we even have a new splash here, Lizzie. I don't know if you saw it. Izzy, the dolphin. I don't know if you see. It's pretty cool. So that's awesome. The other thing is that, as I said, we're talking about MPN. You heard it, serverless, maybe. It's server-side less service mesh. But what you don't know is that we're working very aggressively for it. I will argue for over three years. And finally, we can announce it as a beta disk conference. So I'm really, really excited about that. You should try that. I know the perception of STO was before. You should try that. Because it will simplify your user experience. It will take drastically your cost and it's improved the performance. And you can read some of those resources. I will recommend you to go and listen to that talk. This is Christian Post on my calling and this is a talk about a service mesh and it's comparing very nicely. Scyllium service mesh and STO in a very objective way. Okay, Scyllium and MPN. So I don't know if many of you know this, but two years ago, we actually announced that announcement here, like in Kupkon. We basically announced that we're really excited about Scyllium. We predicted that that would be the future. Great job, ISOvelin and Scyllium team. And we wanted to join that. So we announced it two years ago and we did quite a lot in the community in order to try to be a partner. For some reason, we shadowed but we are working and aggressively contributing and working as part of the community. As we said on the first talk, it's very important to us to bring the layers together. This is why we're contributing right now. We're contributing, verify that MPN is going to work seamlessly with CNI, specifically Scyllium because we're selling it. So it's really, really nicely working together. We also announcing our support for Scyllium, a glue networking for Scyllium. So look, we're working with a lot of open source customers. We saw where they're shooting themselves off the foot. We created an insight engine that helping them not to do that. So this is just example of how it looks, what is giving over the open source but that's the provider guys and so on. So if you are interesting, we would love to work with you as we're working with a lot of other customers. But all of this need to be wrapped somehow. So networking will happen, right? I'm pretty sure. And the vision is to make it easy to use and as MPN as it can be, right? But in the nutshell, eventually you're using all of this in order to implement that on your organization. And the question, how should we best do that? And as you know, we are big friends of open source and therefore we are very, very excited about backstage and really, really excited about the project who is actually right now, at least we see it in our customer. I can tell you all of our customers are not accepting. Looking at that exactly project. How can we take project like Cilium together with MPN and make it so easy and so adoptable in your organization? I think this is the answer. I think that I'm very excited about what we can do there. We have our own distro for solo, working with all those customers. If you're interesting, please reach out. And I think that's all I have. Thank you for my time.


Hi everybody. I am Matthew Miller. I am the Fedora Project Leader. This is a Fedora Council video meeting. So in the Fedora Council, we try to conduct most of our business so that doesn't need to be done in meetings at all, but we found that having regular meetings on, you know, IRC, chat-based meetings help us make sure that our regular business gets pushed forward because that kind of cadence is important and also that having these kind of high bandwidth, literally high bandwidth video meetings let us keep in sync with some of the other important parts of the project. So we've been using these to focus on a sub-area of Fedora that we have there's something interesting going in on or might need attention or needs more visibility or something like that. So this week we are for this month, this week today, we're focusing on the Fedora re-spins pig, which is largely Ben Williams here. And it's one of the things that's been going on in Fedora probably one of our longest-standing sub-projects that's still active, I think. And so Ben has a presentation for us and then we'll have questions for him afterwards. Welcome Ben, take it away. Now my question is how do I share this presentation? Aha, there should be a share link up at the top of blue jeans there. There's a share screen thing, it looks kind of like a monitor icon. All right. Should have done a tech check beforehand. Okay, loading presentation, awesome. It's working. You see the Fedora re-spins? Yeah, I see the whole window there, it's not in present mode but I see it there. I go and present mode and then it takes up both my screens so I can't do that so we'll do it this way. All right. Hello everybody, I'm Ben Williams. I'm JB Willa in the Fedora world and also Southern gentlemen and KK4EWT. I'd like to thank you for inviting me to talk about the re-spins and hopefully I can answer any questions that you may have. Today's my topics for this presentation are the history of the re-spins and some information about re-spins sake, how and when we create the re-spins. The history of re-spins, first Fedora re-spin was done by the, was done as Fedora Core 5 by the Fedora Unity project. Fedora Unity project was Fedora community members, me and about five other people were looking at the documentation in Fedora and it was very lacking and so we had sites that we offered how to fix issues and stuff like that and we also did the first set of re-spins. SC5 when it was released had a kernel that had a lot of issues and so we re-spun it for the community and that's how we got started. The Fedora Unity project also released the first Fedora live, it was not an installable live, it was just a live instance for SC6. The first installable live was released by the Fedora project for SC7 or F7. Got an extra C in there. For the Unity produced updated ISOs through F12. Valley and Anaconda issues left and right and then the Fedora Unity project basically dissolved. I personally built re-spins for my own use from F12 to F15. F15 we had shell shock and I was talking to Kevin from Release Engineering and I said hey if you give me a place to store this I'll release updated ISOs so people will not have the susceptible shell shock at the install. With that Release Engineering provides alternate re-spins for a location for us to distribute our ISOs. The Fedora community has seen that this was a one-man operation and step forward to help us with the re-spins and thus the re-spins save was born. According to the past Fedora re-spins has 15 members. We probably have about seven or eight that are active. Re-spins are created either by using the lab media creator or live CD creator. There's a link there if you want to see how to use the lab media creator. Re-spins were being created on each kernel. Each even kernel example would be 5.10.12 but due to the fast release from the kernel upstream that has been cut back to the first on the 15th of the month. There are one there are a couple weeks we were getting four kernels a week. This is a volunteer situation so that was a little bit much for the test and try to get two releases out the door in a week so we backed it off to one release every two weeks. Any questions? Thank you that's a great overview. I guess wow was shell shock really that long ago? I guess that's my main question in my mind. Wow that makes me feel old I guess. Yes it was 19 versions ago. That's amazing. I have a question if you don't mind. I would like to try to be joined and try to help the community on the rest in live image and I checked the documentation it was kind of you know I lost in it I didn't fully understand how do I going to start it I know how to create a live so image on the update ISO files sorry updated RPM files to create an updated ISO but I couldn't actually find how to submit this results I only saw a big chunk of global documentation as far as I know and that's about it I didn't find any other like like tangible information for myself maybe I couldn't understand it maybe the documentation is missing but I'm kind of lost between that process so yeah thank you. Come see us in Fedora respins on free note. IRC channel Fedora respins is the place. That's where we hang out we we have a builder which is a VM at the moment I'm working on a cloud instance at the moment trying to build for F 34 and we run into some issues and I have filed bug Zilla zone and I'm in communication with Brian Lane who is the Lorax developer or maintainer in communications him issues we're having I've got scripts we've got a script that we run it it builds all the ISO's for all the labs. Right now the door community is not set up for individual people to submit ISO updated live ISO's. When I said submit means I would like to submit my test results like there's a taste matrix as I saw so how to taste it like how to contribute that part that part is I didn't find that I didn't understand it so that was the problem I had. Okay we do have a matrix we have a testing matrix that we use let's see if I can get that URL. Well you look for the URL does that use the same test matrix like the same test criteria that the release criteria uses or is it a separate test framework? It's a test separate test framework our framework is manually driven usually the workstation and KDE ISO's are when we submit to alt Adam Williams is pulling that information in the open QA and they usually test those ISO's as well. They get automatically tested once once they're uploaded basically. Yes sir. And so you're building these on a is it a VM in Fedora infrastructure or a VM outside of Fedora infrastructure that this stuff is? It's a VM on my infrastructure. On your infrastructure. Okay. We we've got a cloud instance that is sitting on Fedora infrastructure at the moment that we're trying to get to work. Okay. If we get it to work we'll I'd rather build there than on my machine. So I know so Mark is here from Lenovo he has some interest in this because sometimes we want to have newer newer versions of Fedora workstation to put on the Lenovo thinkpads that are shipping with pre installed. And so we recently did a thing where we basically asked release engineering for an official or semi official re spin from there. I'm wondering if we could bring these processes closer together if we could make it so it's easier for you as the re spin SIG to do it. So you know I I think Adam Williamson and Mohan both volunteered and Peter Robinson for that matter had a lot of people volunteering to say hey I could do this no problem as a one-off. But if you're doing something twice a month it seems like having a SIG responsible for it rather than adding more work to release engineering would be nice. What do you think about that and is there a way we could move this to enabling you to do it? Well if I had Koji access where I could do it yes that would work out great but QA is covered up trying to test and get things going for the next release. So that would take a council vote that the re spins are legitimate if they are done on Prodors Koji and testing done by the re spin SIG is adequate and if we say it's not worth releasing we don't release it. At the moment there are last build mate did not did not it built but it had a boot loop. So it was just bringing up the login screen and just keep looping to it. We will not release that. So that's good. So when that happens you basically just skip it for that release. Skip it for that release. And if any of workstation and KDE don't build we don't release anything we just leave what's out there till we can get something built. Do we have a way to give do the spins maintainers get feedback that their re spin didn't build? Well usually it's not the spin maintainers problem. The kickstart can be working and there can be some Fedora update that day that things are just not working and we can give it a couple days and things get fixed. And if it doesn't get fixed in like a week time I start filing bugzillas. Alright that makes. So how how different is like the framework used for testing from like the framework used for like a Fedora test day or something like that? From what I've seen in the helping with the test days not very far off at all. There's something people who are involved in the test days could get involved in this kind of testing pretty. Oh yeah. Yes sir. Yes. So that leads me to one of the questions actually. I run most of the test days around Fedora. So it would actually be good if we can collaborate sometime and we can have respin test day. We have a set of test days going around anyway. So and test days is kind of not tied to the release cadence. We can pretty much have test days on any topic. So that opens up for something like a respin test day or a test week because it's it's it involves testing a lot of images. So most likely a test week would be good. I would this is definitely something I would like to see become more official because it's useful to a lot of people for you know hardware enablement and also just you know not applying you know two gigabytes of updates which time you start your system. I know once long ago I don't know if he's still mad at us but it was it was on Google plus Google plus Linus Torvalds claimed us for not having having official respins with New York kernels. We've outlasted Google plus so maybe that's not an issue anymore but I think there it is definitely a thing that people would like and you know we'd like to keep Linus happy as a Fedora user so we could we could do that that would be cool. How much trouble did we cause with that sort of the official we low image that we did for the X1 carbon a couple of weeks ago? It seemed to be no trouble from the side that I saw but I think I think what I'm hearing from people is that doing that a couple times a year is no trouble but if we'd like to have something that's kind of on the cadence of you know doing it twice a month that starts becoming an extra job for somebody and we'd like to be able to empower the people who have been doing it and want to do it rather than adding more work for people who are there just because they have to be the only people to do it. From your side Mark is there things that could have gone better with that? No actually it was amazing and genuinely thank you so and yeah I mean that image is going through well I think I have one bug related to the fingerprint that we're still trying to reproduce but otherwise it's all looking very good so thank you for that and it's good so your question about testing obviously you know we're not going to release an image that hasn't been through our test process but that's not the same as getting the Fedora thumbs up right? I want both In the chat I'll post a link to our test matrix. We'll see if we can make sure of those. Edward can you copy these links and make sure they get to the YouTube when we post this? Yeah sure. Awesome thank you. Alright so so far it's been a pretty short meeting I know there's a lot of complexity here. Ben other than getting like more direct access to things what else could Fedora as a project do to make re-spin SIG more successful? I asked that question of the SIG members and they said we don't know okay I other than what we said is if we could well on the websites if we had it could have a link to the downloads for updated ISOs but I understand why it's not because it's not official we can have a link on the website oh yeah there's updated ISOs done by the community they are located here and a link for it besides that that would one more thing I would like to add is the only respon link when I learned in the first time it was only in IRC I only figured this out that link the respon links it has been when I learned long ago it was only has been showed in IRC title on the federal IRC channel other than that it is like it is unknown a bit of it and when I know I try to share as much people as I can because it's actually updated images they do you don't have to download tool gig something if you start Fedora at the moment right now try to download the respon image and I show that thing he doesn't even have any idea where it is when I show him now he knows it other than that it is impossible to find it so actually we need to show that more maybe in the magazine maybe in the website yeah I would like to see that as well but it needs to be more open and more feeable because it's only in IRC and it's very bad so it's on the planet when I release I put a blog post up and it hits the planet yeah and there are people who are picking up my blog post and the street yeah I do that so one thing that you get a little more official visibility is maybe putting in the community blog yeah basically it's copy the same blog post there would be a thing to do I think for putting it on the official website I think basically we need two things we need it to be built in Koji which I think you know there's some technical limitations but I think we can probably overcome those and then we also it's the testing level that I'm concerned about because it's it's those things you said that are like you know like there might be some little bug there which we might not get we do pretty extensive level of testing on the official you know release cadence releases and I'm a little bit worried that a light the lighter testing that the respins go through might give some people a bad experience and we don't want we don't want that obviously so far all the years I've been doing this everybody is saying it works yeah I and usually when somebody has a problem I point it to the re point them to the respin some and pound for Dora and it solves the problem yeah so I think yeah you're right that it there's also the there's probably more problems fixed than ink than introduced each time so so it it might actually be nice to get to the goal of having the official downloads and this is this is not a next year goal but a a aspirational goal having the official downloads like the first download you get always be an updated respin the life cycle of the release but I see Shimano dropped off video I scaring away QA completely by suggesting things like no I think that would be nice and at the moment if somebody installs workstation the release workstation there's 1.1 gigs of updates yeah so at that point you might as well install download so anyway so and it went when we had the install the default installer was had the option of network sources and apply updates that made it easy to avoid that but the default installer from the live right now installs from the live so you don't get that option so yeah I I don't know I personally think that it would be a good goal for us to move towards that and so I think the steps of making the making the respin more official is probably a first step towards that and then you can look at getting it more publicity yeah that would be amazing I think we can we can create a trigger to I think maybe Twitter for a post and in the telegram project news post maybe triggered by the same planet post you can go to the community blog to the planet and to Twitter and to Telegram that is the the things I can manage and I cannot manage more than that but I think I can help with that I think it's very useful I remember it was like two or three years ago and the last free soul that is a installation fest that is here in Latin America we can we have a specific ISO updated for free so that was awesome because the bandwidth in normally in install phases very very low and having an updated image to offer to people was amazing we were the only these two offering an updated image everyone else have to install and update Tom I noticed you say my bad a couple times in the chat here do you want to elaborate on what you're saying my bad about we keep bringing up that we're pushing these giant piles of updates thank you for doing those no spot if we didn't have those updates we wouldn't need the respin so no that's part of it we love it Ben do you have any metrics on how many people are downloading the updated respins no sir that might be interesting to do to again it would be interesting to see what the audience is currently even with the difficulties of finding it if you've got a reliable user base there that's an interesting data point at the moment I've asked for numbers each span release engineering cannot give me the numbers I can tell you the numbers from our points it's right about 150 gig per release I would say the torrents are probably more reliable because I've talked to smooch about getting stats from various things from the website and the problem is the internet is so full of nonsense these days that it is basically 90% bots doing various nefarious things and five percent mistakes and maybe five percent signal in download written out the count so you can't really get any useful useful numbers from webs like the FTP or web stats it's not because they don't want to it's just because we don't have a really good way of measuring those things and also we're using mirrors right although if we only had one site we could have the stats but since you got some mirrors out there you can't do it right which you know saves us billions of dollars in bandwidth so it's hard to argue with that yeah and again you know this is part of the trade-off we make you know fedora does not do any tracking there's no paying backs when you go to do an install if we were if we were basically anybody else this would be an easy problem to solve because we would just make the install or send all of your personal information and your social security number to our data collection service and then we would know but yeah we don't have a real there is a question I would like to point it out is there when you release the recipe image is it shown in fetch message yeah because if it is it will be nice to make a bot to track them all because I would know there's a filter and title to easily be handled because the fed message actually handle that so much nicer on that point that was that is beyond the scope of the skew stick so I think that if it were produced in Koji there would and there would be fed messages along with that but the trick is is there a fed message that is associated with an approved official release rather than with that will be nice because we can actually make a bot what my friend said in the telegram that will be much more viable solution so that's why that's one thing that might if you got somebody who's interested in making bots making a command that the respin sig could run that would say this release is blessed and just put that on the fed message would be actually possibly a useful useful thing yeah give any any any information can be tangible I can also utilize that and put it in my community in my language show that that's fine that has been it's not more publicity more people can access it that would be nice yes yeah I also had a thought on another way to help publicize this we've got a fedora quick doc section on installation and writing a quick doc that just says they are explaining what the re-spins are explaining you know the trade-offs of testing versus newer things you know giving the community built status and then linking to them right there would probably increase the visibility by I don't know a thousand percent so you think people read the docs so right people do go read the docs people and people it's something that people can point it at as well I know I know but we are also very people also do searching for things and it will come up in search results that the fedora docs has pretty good Google gravity and we're also hopefully going to have actual search for those docs themselves sometimes I'm going to say one thing everybody likes magazine just please and make a post on magazine 100% better than a documentation yeah so all right a post on the magazine would also be a good idea although I think probably don't want like you know every time there's a re-spin but just like a what are the re-spins no no just show this in the description this is how you access that would be even so much better yeah I'm sure the magazine editors would be happy for I guess the difference is the magazine article kind of makes a splash at one point and it's always there later but you know two years from now it will it'll be unclear if it's still current information because it's kind of blog you know time-formatted so having it you can put the same content in the magazine on the docs I'd say put it both places I guess the problem is is a year down the road people will be trying to pull the old ISOs and the new stuff's gonna be there so that's the only thing I've got about the magazine yeah you wouldn't want it to link to the specific ISOs you just link to the you know this is this is the tree where there's a general ISO for every time it shows the latest ISO that link enough because it's always show the latest ISO in the in the link you can always redirect to current and then point the current to whatever the new ISO is that's why the Qweta is basically face the current testing matrices right off I will let people who care about the redirects and current and so on on the distribution network worry about the details there that's else that is they don't stream for me so that's not my issue right so and you also said these are available for the a torrent where what's let's let's make sure we put the torrent link in here as well do you the torrent links are on the alt respents okay and they are not stay safe what okay when you when you update the image it also updates the torrent magnet as you're right but it doesn't stay same right the torrents this do not stay the same they make it a new yeah all the links go in there at the same time I see this over there right there as well okay cool I can just look on a dot turn that's fun just this let me post it please this is the only link is the show always pointing the latest one but the inside of the ISO files is always changing than the the list in your ISO so yeah the ISO is changing so is the checksum the hash um yeah and the torrent file all that'll be the only links is the general link we can counter on so yeah and there is a tiny URL link it points to the same location and that's usually what I put in all the documentation only I didn't find it yes you did cuz you found it in the pound for door channel yeah I mean I just showed it okay so this is the link I have but I know the tiny one in the I'm downloading from zero zero peers here so I got a question I don't know if it makes sense but do you for the testing that you do on the images is any of it automatable if I was wanting to run my own open QA yeah okay but I like that I know it's always case of if I can make a bunch of platforms available it's that it's always hard to get the hands to go with them and I'm just wondering how automatable would be to help on that side of things so I think that if again a side effect of doing this in the official Koji was that it would be pretty easy to plum into our official open QA as well with automatically flow so I don't know about how you open QA works but is that literally just something it would pick up an image and and I could deploy it to a whole bunch of platforms and find out if there are any issues we maybe we need to have Adam on here to talk about open QA so I think that it is all virtual systems in open QA yeah all of them is just right I would be easier we also Shimantro can you talk more about this we do do automated testing at Red Hat on things but I'm not sure how all that goes so usually Adam has this tool called Fed Find which will basically go find the candidate image that would basically just flow into the whenever it's built it's basically sends out a compose message and then that is plugged into the open QA it's basically in short it would basically capture the screen the needle would match whatever it is supposed to match if it doesn't match then it would call it a failure it can it is basically something which can click on buttons and basically move forward records a video of if it fails it pause on that record that screen send a message via a VRT back to Buxelizer Chris report and then that's how it basically goes so technically how I understand it is if we have it built in Koji it would be like it would just flow into Adam's do we have any way do we use beaker or any test framework to test things on actual hardware at all that would be very interesting to mark yeah that is something Adam can be more precise on because for all I know when we had this power PC le got added there was a bunch of hardware that we had to add to open support so I think that is something Adam would be more happier to discuss okay yeah no I don't have an infrastructure that I could drop this on to yet but I just think it ahead I was okay if I can get to the stage where I do have something I'd be nice if it worked so that we could be part of what triggers and test it on the hardware like if you want to provide me some infrastructure I'll test it on the I don't make the same request I don't get it then you should listen down because they know how to do it yeah no it's absolutely better yeah but my imagination is I think about like a hundreds of hundreds laptop and Lenovo showing how to install anaconda and federal images all over the place that would be nice pictures to see it that would be awesome yeah I'm gonna drop the link to beaker in the chat here as well we're gonna have a lot of I have looked at beaker and and this is I don't I don't have a an infrastructure that I can use that with yet but it's it's something which I'm looking at okay and I I don't know if it's possible that open QA can also do things like that but we just haven't set it up to do that I don't actually know the answer yeah let's go ahead question trying to think ahead of what would be useful good thank you are there other questions anybody and yes Matt I'm building on Fedora boxes and Fedora VMs using only the Fedora repos that was what we were told back in FC5 when can't remember the project all the way down it's everything is run on Fedora using Fedora tools and in the like so FC5 that is either either Max or Greg because he came back to the Fedora unity project because release engineering was you but to a release a live ISO and release engineering told him it couldn't be done so he asked us can y'all do it we said we'll try and so the day that FC6 was released we had early access to a meter mirror and we created the ISOs nice cool and then release engineering come talk to us and the next time for F7 they released installable lives that's great well evidently something must be going on because I'm getting a flood of people trying to get the respins at the moment so excellent quick question I know the also I'm not a cat I'm David Cantrell so the question I have is around the images available in in cloud environments like Amazon EC2 things like that are you doing respins for any of those now is there any interest in that from people oh there's interest in it I do not have I don't have the koji instance to correct those okay so alright I'm saying some normally more interesting in the in marketing and this kind of stuff maybe my question is are you interesting in having a maybe a more appealing website with the press with a rest pin log or something that we can make it more than just an Apache directory listing I'm sorry I didn't understand the last part of that a suggestion was to make an updated a website a respins website rather than just the directory listing we mentioned earlier talking putting it on like the main get fedora website but also maybe in between just having a respin stuff nor a project on our web site or as always things come down to man power well that's what I'm offering I'm offering the mom power yeah you can make it yeah it is a start it will be an aesthetic side that just have it beautiful directory listing at the end so it won't be just one do all right that that sounds reasonable too and after you make it who's gonna keep it up I think it will be in the Fedora infrastructure just we need the the DNA is going to be the maintainer after you put it up who's gonna be responsible that every time I release a set of respins it's gonna update that page every time you have a release you have the this directory listing that is in the chat again in the tenure URL form so I just can create a site that have this director listing about and everything is dated it will be automatically dated that's the idea I have so it's just the aesthetic page it points to the the download the download the doors that's it all lab respins yes that that's the idea something like that seems seems doable I I know Marie is working on getting the website team up and going again as a viable ongoing thing and it seems like this would be something that we'd want the website steam to ultimately own in collaboration with the respins sig for actual content but I can work on it I can take it as a marketing test I see that we're not using respin stuff at our project at arc so it's available awesome all right any other questions or comments all right thank you very much Ben this has been very interesting and helpful thanks for everybody for showing up thank you mark particularly for your comments as a consumer of this that's very helpful for us to know about and invite yep and see you all you know on the Internet said back in video call I think we're talking about the new logo next month so that'll that'll be exciting see y'all later


Yo, what's going on? Leaf Finish, it's Leaf for back again, and welcome back to the channel. First things first, it's Christmas Eve, so Merry Christmas Eve, and since I'm not going to be uploading tomorrow as well, Merry Christmas, hopefully you guys get what you want. I hope you guys have a very happy holiday season, and I hope you guys enjoy your time with your family, given what's going on around in the world right now, COVID-wise and all that stuff, but hopefully you're able to celebrate and enjoy the holidays with your family. Today, we're here with another pack opening video and a pretty big boy team update. So quickly, we will go through our team and then EA dropped some holiday packs for Christmas Eve, which we're going to open as well. So looking at my team here, this first line looks insane. Yes, I made that John Thavars. I just came out yesterday. I had to. He's almost out of 92. We're building up collectibles to make him a 92, but right now we got a first line of Mitch Marner, John Thavars and Austin Matthews. This line is nasty. We have one more upgrade to give to Marner, which we will eventually do. So eventually it's going to be 90, 92, 91, which is insane. Our second line. We got 91 Michael, 88 Sunday in an 89 car, McDavid. We're still waiting to get that X Factor McDavid so we can start building him up. That's going to be expensive. Then we got you. So who we pulled, I don't know if I recorded it when we pulled it. I'm pretty sure we did. We got you. So playing with Quinten, a byfield and Alexander Ovechkin. Ovy, we own like two upgrades so we can get into a 92 eventually. And then our fourth line is Stephen Stamco's Alexander Barkoff and Michael Bunting, EVO card. And then on defense, we had Adam Fudd with Sergei Gontra. We did make Sergei Gontra out of the new team builder sets. We got Rita Kessler and Draper for him. This card is amazing. Plays amazing with Adam Fudd. Second pairing being Byram and Kail McCarr. We're working on getting Byram up to a 92 as well. And then our last pairing being Ulf Samuelson and John Carlson. And then in net, we got plays of the year thatcher Demko. Now, looking at our synergies wise, we got the distributor. Activated magician, applesauce, spark, bombarded and heart and soul. So it was huge for me to get the distributor activated. So John Thaverse isn't as slow. He's at 90 speed. Once we can get spark on him, that'll help as well. But yeah, I'm very happy with the team. I've yet to use John Thaverse in an online hut rivals game. But in her rush, she feels amazing. But her rush, I don't know how you could really compare that. But now it is time to open up some packs. So looking at the content that's out, we have a chance of pulling these 93 master set players, which would be huge. You got Tavares, Koskin and Malkin and Brandon Carlo. What else do we have here? We got a plays of the month, Malcolm Subban, pretty decent team of the week, Copa Torre Theodore, Nylander, Ekblood, Helbock, Terry, Taze, Goudreau, pretty well rounded team of the week. We got a 90 Mullen, 88 Siddines, Ryan Souter. We got some of these guys here. We got a 92 McKinnon, 90 Hossa, 88 Krupp, 87 Grandlin, 87 Blackwood. So we got some pretty good cards out right now. And looking at the pack that EA just dropped, we're going to be able to open up two of them is it's called a holiday Eve pack. So we get 15 total items, eight gold players and at least two 83 plus overall players. Now, looking at the odds here, we get a 47 percent chance of getting an 86 plus player, 2.7 percent chance of getting a 90 plus. And if you were to look at the multi league pack, you get a 28 percent chance at an 86 plus. So your odds are better in this holiday pack. Without further ado, let's open it. Listen, I've yet to pull a power up icon. I would love to pull a power up. I need something worth coins that wouldn't fit my team, if that makes sense. I'm trying to buy evil Riley is what I'm trying to say. So I need a big pull here, something that's worth a lot of coins. We got a purple and it's a 90 overall, Joe Mullen, and that is beautiful. That's going to be coins in the bank. I don't know how much he's going to go for. He's got some pretty decent synergies, spark and distributor.  This card might be usable for my team, but I think we're going to sell him first cards of purple that is huge. We'll take a Joe Mullen. We get one more 83 plus. I wonder what it's going to be. Probably not as good as that Joe Mullen there. That's for sure. So what is left in this pack? 81 Andrew Cough. We still get an 83 plus Tyler Johnson, UC Soros. And that is it. But hey, we will definitely, definitely take a Joe Mullen. He's got to go for a little something, right? And last pack here of the holiday packs, you do get to open up four of these. I only put enough points to open up two of these. OK, so let's see what we can get here. Can we get another purple? That would be huge. Please, let's see what we can get. We still got our two 83 plus this year. Another purple, 86 overall, Tyler Sagan. Don't know what he goes for, but we can use him to upgrade our Tavares. So that's not bad. We'll take a Tyler Sagan and then an all marker. So those are our two 83s. Anything else, nothing else. But hey, man, we pulled two purples. We will definitely take that. Anyways, guys, that is it for today's video. Thank you very much for watching. If you guys like it, be sure to drop a like on it. If you guys are new around here, make sure to subscribe button down below. We upload three times a week here. And like I said, guys, enjoy your holiday weekend. You got Christmas Eve today, Christmas Day, Boxing Day. Just enjoy it, boys. Let me know what you guys get for Christmas. Let me know if you guys are looking forward to getting anything for Boxing Day. But guys, like I said, that is it for today's video. Thank you guys very much for watching. And I'll talk to you guys later. Peace.