Hi everyone, this is Jason Zach from Nathaniel School of Music. Welcome to another one of our videos. If you are an existing subscriber of our channel, thanks for that by the way. And if you are watching this video for the first time, welcome aboard. What we are going to try and do in this lesson is to explore all the conventional ways of playing scales and then I am going to add a little bit of twist to it or for me it's actually quite normal because I've not learned piano in a traditional way you know with the standard syllabi offered by you know various sources. So I've just sort of ended up doing scales and scales, scale exercise a lot later than chords. My chord playing ended up being quite good but the scale playing was quite poor because I hadn't learned it in a classical or a conventional sense. But over the years I have also started developing that and as it turns out some of my approaches to playing scales some of them are very traditional but not taught these days for some reason and some of them I think are quite interesting. Some people say it's not really western you know originated from another country or something. I'm not too sure of the history but what I can say is this there will be a lot of scale drills in this lesson a lot of scale exercises and the way we've divided our lesson would be first learn the scales in parallel motion then learn them in contrary motion then do a combo of all that and then do what we call a similar motion which you're going to see very shortly and in this lesson we are going to do it on two scales with variety. We'll do it on the major scale as well as the harmonic minor and due to lack of time I'm going to hand pick one major and one harmonic minor the major is A major and the harmonic minor is E harmonic minor. Okay why well I just thought I'll choose two really nice scales spice it up a bit and most of the lessons out there will do it on C or some familiar scale and I don't like that argument of only doing C because what happens with C major is your fingers align in a very different way than scales with black notes so it's always good to mix it up you know for all you know you may find a major easier than C major which at least I do you know playing this particular exercise okay so A major it's all written down in my hand written notes on patreon you'll also get the notations of each of these topics so A major three sharps C sharp there F sharp G sharp A and the E harmonic minor a harmonic minor just in a nutshell is like a minor scale how do we form it flat three not that so flat three and normal and flat six with a normal seven so flat three G C flat six D sharp which is normal seven okay so A major E harmonic now exercise number one is just the good old parallel motion where we are just going to take one octave of these two scales and I'm just going to tell you the fingering a few aspects of how I played the way I follow timing how I keep time how I don't slip my hand and some healthy posture tips to play this stuff a major this is how we played in the right hand we play three notes so the moment you finish this note try to tuck your thumb under the middle finger that can be very helpful to prepare you for the ascending journey ABC sharp D E F sharp G sharp A always sing whether you're whatever you're doing singing is a very crucial thing to do ABC sharp D E sharp G sharp A you could sing the names of the notes you could sing the swaras or you could just do Nana Nana just hum it somehow okay now coming to the descending exact same way as you went ascending just in the reverse so play five with these consecutive fingers pinky ring middle index thumb cross your middle finger. So middle and the moment you cross the middle, it latches back to the thumb. One more time, right hand. Coming to our left hand, which we are then going to put together with the right hand. Left hand you could think of it in simple words as a mirror image of the right hand. So the left hand is just going the way the right hand went this way, which we will see later actually in contrary motion. So left 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 3, 2, 1. Okay, with middle I am calling this as 3, this is 1, this is 5. If you want to change it, it's your decision. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 3, 4, 5. Without the numbers, just remember play 5, cross the middle. Come back to the thumb, descending, cross the thumb. It's all about if you want more space, if you want to expand, you have to cross the thumb. That will see. A good exercise to do on the piano is just that. You know, just use your thumb and extend. This itself is a good practice and then when you come back, move over the thumb. You don't have to necessarily play anything. You know, just get used to this. The thumb tucks under and it propels the hand forward. So right hand, cross that after the 3, cross over that. Left hand, 5, cross the 3rd. And when you are crossing, try to avoid too much of elbow movement. That's a bit annoying. It will confuse your hands and body. And our first goal is to do this with two hands. This is what we call as parallel motion, which is pretty much the same thing, ditto in two hands. You have some fun here and there. Stuff like that. Don't just end with just the scale.  Use the same fingering what you are gaining from this exercise is finger control when to cross etc. But you can use that concept for melodies which you could compose or existing songs. Coming to the e-harmonic minor. Let's see how that goes. Exact same finger job in the right hand. Play 3, cross. There's only one challenge, little tricky challenge with the harmonic being because the 6th is flat and it creates a bigger gap between the 6th and the major 7th. So just you have to just be aware of that visually and feel that well on the piano. And for both of these scales I've drawn the worms, what I call as piano worms which show you the shape of the scale. You know white, white, black, white, white, black, black, white for a major. White for e-harmonic minor it will be white, black, white, white, white, black slightly stretched out white. So learning these what I call as piano worms will be very helpful. So right hand e-harmonic minor, left hand e-harmonic minor, pretty much the same. Play 5, cross your middle, there we have it. Just watch out for that extra jump which is an augmented second interval. Both hands again, parallel. A very, very important point which I have to say when you play these scales especially as a beginner is your fingers may slip. So if you take back to A major, you know your hand may, I see students just having no control over the ring, you know and the weaker fingers. So to avoid that you need to play it with some accents. Try to play it with some volume variations between the notes. Highlight some notes more than the others especially the ones which target the weaker fingers, something like this. Or any, any assortment of notes. Basically think of like a drum groove going on in the background. So the fingers will adapt based on the drum groove and thus get stronger and thus gain more control. So gaining more control is about finger strength. Yes but it's also about the mental strength to be able to deal with each note and know each note going through your mind in a rather quick manner. Because ascending and descending scales tend to, people you need to play them a bit faster. So that's how I like to play it with that, with that jump with that bump up in the volume. So just feel that drum groove sounds a bit funny but it can really get the job done. You can play it longer and longer and just go on. Even with faster speeds you're always in control over the. Then you do the e-harmonic the same way with that aggressive accent approach, very rock like. So I tend to always like to imagine like a ghost drummer next to me and just imagine what that person would do on the kit and just play with that atmosphere and it somehow brings the piano to sound a lot nicer. So that was about parallel motion. We've looked at parallel motion, the fingering, the dynamics, the posture and what not of the two scales under consideration. A major and E harmonic minor. I've chosen it for variety. Now let's move forward to a bunch of other ways of playing scales and adapting to them. Let's look at contrary motion. So with contrary motion when one hand goes up the other hand goes down. So it's as simple as that. But fingering wise it's not too different than what we talked in parallel motion. You just have to do the descending version of the left hand while the right hand does the ascending version. But your mind has to be a bit clever to actually remember different notes. It's not the same notes. You know and the crossing point however will be the same because now you're creating a mirror. This is like the left hand and right hand now play like a mirror image of each other. So in a sense contrary motion is not so tough because it's the same fingers compared to parallel motion where the fingers are not the same. So contrary will go that way. Watch out that G sharp. You don't want to miss that. That's contrary. So right hand goes up, left hand goes down and when the right hand goes down the left hand goes up. Let's do that slowly on A. Same fingering as what we looked at. That doesn't change. Just the order. This goes down that goes up. Hence the word contrary. Right hand down, left hand up, left hand down, right hand up, right hand down, left hand up. Build it with those same accents. I figured why not combine both the motions together. You can combine parallel with contrary. So the pattern I have for you is parallel, contrary, contrary, parallel. Remember that. I hope I didn't confuse you. Parallel, contrary, contrary, parallel. That means start with parallel. Let the right hand now from the ring finger don't play the pinky. Continue with the thumb and go one more octave that way. So 2, 3, 4, 5. Now right hand goes up. Left hand now starts going contrary to the right hand. So now enough. Now descend the right hand and we are ascending the left hand. Contrary. Now descend both hands and the job is done. Let's do that again. It's a rather unique way. I just like practicing scales like this and gives me more confidence especially before a practice session or before a recording or a show. Again, so I'll call it out. Parallel motion same. Contrary. Right hand goes up. Left hand goes down. Now right hand goes down. Left hand goes up. Both hands now seem to go in parallel motion. That's why it sounds the same. Contrary, the notes are going to be different. Right? Contrary, different. Parallel, same. Again, slowly. Same parallel. Contrary. Right hand goes up 2 octaves. Now we descend the right hand. Descend both together. Little bit speed. One more time. It's a lot of fun once you get it. It's even more fun once we get it on the e-harmonic minor. Let me show you that as well. So e-harmonic minor. Parallel. Contrary. Sounds beautiful when you do that. Very Bach-like because it's counterpoint if you think about it. That second melody is counter the first one. That's how a lot of the classical music from the earlier generations were written. Very important to practice this. Contrary. So now what's the drill? Parallel. Contrary. Contrary. The other way. Parallel. Ending on the root. One more time. I like it a bit lower as well. Fingers stay pretty much the same. When you go between octaves, try to cross your ring there. The whole thing. Cross the ring there. Then it neatly ends. The ring is always playing the 7th degree. Just one more time. Play with that rock approach keeping a drummer in mind. Absolute chaos. That's how we like it on the piano. Remember. So parallel motion done. Contrary motion done. Now we've combined parallel and contrary with this jumbled up way of going about things. Now I'd like to leave you in this lesson with two motions. What we call a similar motion. So what happens with similar motion? The hands go in the relative direction the same. So the right hand's going up. Left hand also go up. But they will play different notes. Or in similar motion in this case they will start an interval this way or that way. This way meaning higher or lower. So if you take the A scale. Let's say you're playing A major normal in the left. How I've told you earlier. But in the right hand you're not going to start on A.  And the interval I have for you in this video is the C sharp which will be the 3rd. So you start on the 3rd. And 3rds sound beautiful. Anyway they form chords. So it's a very important thing to practice similar motion in 3rds. So with 3rds you go. What's happening there? You started with C sharp which is the 3rd of A. D which is the 3rd of B. E which is the 3rd of C sharp and so on and so forth. Let me help you with the fingering. My suggestion with this similar motion it can get very tricky. So first do the fingering of the thing you don't know. The one you know you will continue to know. So the thing we don't know now is the right hand. So start I guess the best option start with your index. So index, thumb, bring back the index there. Cross. End on middle. Cross. I think you have to cross the ring, ring, index. There I made a mistake there. Let me do that again. Ring, index. So takes time. Think of this as a completely different scale. In fact for your information this is the C sharp Phrygian scale. So you're playing C sharp Phrygian with A Ionian or A major in the left. If you want to be geeky about it that's exactly what's happening. Let's do it together. Together and very slow. Little faster. Sing the new north stuff. A good singing exercise would be to sing everything. So sing the left hand once, then sing the right hand. So if I sing the left, quite tricky. Now sing the right hand which is playing the thirds. Then the bass. Now that's one kind of similar motion. I'm on the A scale still. Now the other way is flip it around. So let the right hand play the traditional one and let the left hand go the thing which we did earlier in the right hand. So get acquainted with the fingering. I would recommend in this instance starting with the middle finger. And our notation is there for you. You can get yourselves a copy. Head over to Patreon. It's a downloadable PDF. You'll also get the MIDI. Try to get yourselves a copy of that for sure. So left hand middle here. Start with middle. Cross the ring. You'll be trapped if you don't cross the ring at that particular point at the fourth note. Once you get comfortable with that, now you go. The right hand playing the same deal. If you find a fingering which is more optimal for you, explore. Consider it right or I wouldn't say these fingerings have to be treated like some kind of a law. As long as it sounds good and it's in lagato, that's all we need to care about. In some cases, if you play with your ring by mistake, you may hit some other random notes. So watch out. That's why these fingerings are suggested. This is what I use. It helps me get along. Minimal elbow glitching or elbow movement. Even though I see people doing that, people don't talk about that enough. I guess it's fine, but I don't recommend that elbow movement because it messes with the mind. I think the mind needs to be relaxed and stable. So a stable hand will imply a stabler mind. So there we go. Again, with that discipline of imagining a ghost drummer next to you. So those are your two similar motion things. We've done first with the normal one in the left and the upper third extensions in the right. Then we've done the same thing in the right, the normal one in the right and the third in the left. Let's now look at the same deal on the e harmonic minor and that concludes the lesson. I think we've done quite a bit in this video. We've done parallel motion, contrary motion, parallel with contrary, then two kinds of similar motions. Let's conclude everything on the e harmonic minor scale and more than anything, this is one of those lessons which I do where one of the rare lessons I do where playing along with me and mastering it immediately may not be possible. This will take time, but I mainly wanted to share with you how I practice the piano. If you give me 10 minutes to practice, I would do these things. I'll mix up scales, major, minor, three sharps, three flats, that's a major e flat. So I'll just mix and match and till this day, this is something which even I do. So I'm actually showing you how I practice, given like 10 minutes or 15 minutes of time. And after I do this, I then get into business. I feel very warmed up and if I have to do a recording or perform a show on stage, I feel like my fingers are ready and at least all of them are waiting to go, a raring to go. So let's conclude with e harmonic minor in the similar approach. So okay, so you go same story in the right. That's the harmonic minor in the right, which we've learned in the normal parallel motion. Now it's similar. You start on the G. So the tricky part here is you may want to start on the ring finger and now ring again, slightly weird. It'll take you some time, I guess. Do it like without thinking too much. I think so that's the third in the left and the third can be in the right hand. So how does that work? That's the normal one play three cross not too difficult actually with the left can focus on your singing. That's the left hand. That's the right hand. So thereby it not only becomes a good piano workout, it also becomes a serious year training workout or a singing exercise as well. I would encourage this for a singer as well, a singer who plays the piano or even a singer who plays the guitar, you could play the scale on the guitar and then sing similar motion upper third with your voice. So you can do this on other instruments. It's just that the piano is a serious beast as I call it. It's able to do these two things in parallel and all that. So that's about the exercise guys. I hope you have all this structured out for you and keep it going. Step one, write down the scale. Step two, try it out in all those other forms parallel. First one hand at a time would help practice it with the right discipline with the right dynamics and then go through the variations parallel, contrary. Then the parallel, contrary toggle combo thing and then the two similar motions with thirds. That's what I have for you in this video. I hope you found the lesson useful. Do consider supporting us on our Patreon channel where you'll get all this hand written stuff in the notes and the notation for the for all these variations on both the scales it's notated and waiting for you. If you'd like to have a structured environment to learn the piano or any instrument do visit nathanielschool.com. You can find some of our courses, live courses as well as video courses and that's about it. If you haven't subscribed you have to do so right now and thanks for watching the video. Hit that bell if you haven't already. Leave us a comment with something you'd like to learn in the future and what you thought about this lesson. Cheers.


Hello and welcome to NewsClick. We have Prabir Purghaista, who is the founding editor of NewsClick. Today, we are going to discuss about the Sochi talks between Russia, Iran and Turkey over Syria, and Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri's suspension of resignation and the issues in Yemen and about the Saudi blockade. Prabir, starting with the Sochi talks. What do you think this talk between Russia, Iran and Turkey is going to accomplish? Well, I think it's an interesting realignment that is taking place, because originally, if you remember, Turkey was really the other side. It was very much a part of the Sadat, Assad must go lobby, which was backed by Saudi Arabia, was backed by the United States, and was a part of the problem in Syria. The fact that Turkey has now agreed to be a party to the Sochi talks is, I think, is an extremely interesting realignment of forces that are taking place in the region. That the split between the Saudis and Turkey seems to be fairly complete. We had seen it earlier in Qatar as well, that when Saudis tried to blockade Qatar, talk about boycott and so on, Turkey really broke the line. They went with Qatar, gave its support and so on. So I think we see a clear division now emerging between Turkey and Syria on the issue of Turkey and Saudi Arabia, on the issue of Syria. And I think that's an important, interesting development that is taking place. The second part of it is, the United States has ceased to be the major player in Syria. It still can play the role of a spoiler, but it is no longer controlling the discourse, so to say, or being able to control the events on the ground in Syria. The only major area, which is now in completely hands of Al Qaeda, ISIS kind of forces, really Al Qaeda in Syria, that's really the Idlib province. That borders Turkey. Without support from Turkey, it's unlikely they can survive for too long. Once the Syrian army tries to take back Idlib province. So that's what is the only major, shall we say, resistance to the Syrian governments taking back their territory. Apart from the other one is the Kurds. The SDF has taken over territory east of Euphrates, which also borders Iraq. So what will shape up there? Outside the Kurdish areas, we have to see, because this, the area they've taken over east of Euphrates, a lot of it is really non-Kurdish areas. So we have to see with Iraq, the Kurds and Syria, what is the arrangement that's finally worked out. So I think we can say the war in Syria seems to be running down. It seems to be now negotiations to decide what will happen. And the only major block that is still to be taken is Idlib with Turkey joining the Sochi talks. I don't see much of a future for Al-Qaeda to be able to hold out there indefinitely. Issues are there. There are pockets of resistance, quote-unquote ISIS, Al-Qaeda resistance near Jolan, near Jordan, but they're really smaller pockets. So they're not, long term they're not a problem. And the only other place where the United States is actively involved is Al-Tanaf enclave, but they're still there. But it is the Syrian Arab army on all its sides as well as Iraqis on the other side. So again, that's not a long-term, tenable position to occupy. So I think we are seeing the winding down of the Syrian war. It will take another one to two years before things really completely settle down in terms of Syrian government's control over all its areas. Kurdish question still needs to be addressed. Most of you, British, the territory, the SDF is occupied back by the Kurdish forces, back by the Americans. We have to see what happens over there. But it does see that we are going to see now a drive towards peace over the periods. It's also interesting that the Saudi-backed groups, which are negotiating, the negotiations have gone nowhere with UN mediating the negotiations, the UN rapporteur was supposed to mediate between the negotiations. The person who was leading the talks in that sense from the opposition has just been taken out. And this is really, again, Saudis playing their role. We do not know whether the Saudis also want to now go in towards a re-approachment with the Syrian Assad government and with Turkey or it is to continue the war in Syria. I doubt that Saudis have much of an ability to do that. So I think things in Sochi do see, do spell a change in the correlation of forces in the region. And it does show that fewer United States is weakening in the region and Russia has certainly increased its political stature in the region. So I think that's an interesting development. The United States, Israel and Saudis can today play the role of a spoiler in the larger picture. But I don't think have as much of a, what shall we say, influence or ability to intervene in any major or significant way unless they go to war over Lebanon. So that seems to be the only place where they could still play a role. And of course, as you have also talked about Yemen being the other area where we need to discuss what's happening. Talking about Saudi Arabia, we see Saudi Arabia is trying to reassert its influence in the region, but failing to do so. Now Lebanese Prime Minister, Saad Hariri has suspended its resignation after so-called what we can call as the world's cutest kidnapping or the world's finest kidnapping. And now he has suspended the resignation. So where are the things going? It's interesting. I think the Saudi pressure on Hariri to resign was in the belief that it will lead to a large realignment within Lebanon against Hezbollah. Unfortunately for Saudis, even after Hariri's resignation, the groups that were part of his larger coalition, that seems to have aligned more with Ahun and Hezbollah on the Lebanese sovereignty issue and felt that this was really slighting Lebanon and the Prime Minister of Lebanon being forced to resign from Saudi Arabia. So I think that has backfired badly on Saudi Arabia, that they have reduced the influence they had on Lebanon. That sort of influence in Lebanon, Saad Hariri as we all know is very closely aligned to Saudis. He has Saudi citizenship. His major source of wealth comes from Saudi Arabia, though his major construction company is in bankruptcy. But in spite of that, he has deep financial, political, social links in Saudi Arabia. That Saad Hariri was in some sense made to look as somebody who was listening to Saudi Arabia is a loss of respect, a loss of face and you know in politics, public politics, mass politics, loss of face is something which is very, very significant. So I think Saad Hariri being kidnapped or being forced to resign in foreign territory is something the Lebanese did not accept. And it is a recognition of that that Macron went to mediate and then finally Saad and his wife have been allowed to go to France first and then in Lebanon. So that the rupturing of relations really do not take place.  It is in some sense a sort of via media that Saad Hariri and Saudi Arabia have reached by which he will not criticize Saudi Arabia. He is too closely involved with them to do so, but at the same time he is distancing himself from the policies that Saudi Arabia is pursuing by suspending his resignation, talking about Aoun, his respect for Aoun, not going into direct confrontation with Hezbollah right now. So he is also taking cognizance of the fact of the closing of the people behind the Lebanese identity in which that has achieved a certain degree of importance, not the confessional or shall we say the identity of Shia, Sunni and Christian, which is how Lebanese politics has been played in the last so many last decades, particularly with French starting their confessional divisive politics by which they thought they could always retain their influence over Lebanon. So I think this is a very welcome development if Lebanese politics can go beyond confessional politics and also center around Lebanese identity and if they do so then Hezbollah actually gets strengthened because they are the ones who fought Israelis in the ground, both to liberate south southern Lebanon from earlier Israel and then in the 2006 war when they are able to literally fight to a standstill a much superior Israeli army and with Syria as you know they have gained confidence, they have now even tanks with them, they have formations which are much larger than what any regular militia would be. So they are in some sense now a much more conventional military force and as you as we all know they have more than 100,000 rockets which can be launched and these rockets are not like the Gaza rockets, the relatively sophisticated rockets the ability to hit the major centers of Israel. So I think that this Lebanese assertion backed by you know shall we say Hezbollah's military power does change the equation in the region again and it is a change of equation which unless Israel is willing to invade Lebanon and pay very heavy cost. I think it's a permanent change and it does mean that you are going to see Israel in a tighter position than they were earlier where they could invade any country in the region with impunity. The fact that Syria survived the war that Iranian forces have aided them, Hezbollah has fought with them. So the Syrian Hezbollah alliance from the north and from the east on the borders of Israel makes it not that easy for them to wage a war against either Lebanon or Syria or both that easily and I think Israeli politics has to come to terms with it. Whether Netanyahu has the stomach for an invasion will he do this because he's into very serious trouble and corruption causes cases against him as we all know when a country's leader is weak an external war always helps. So well will that be the cause for Netanyahu to wage war against Lebanon? We have to see but Netanyahu has never taken with all this bluff and bluster. He has never really taken steps which could endanger him. So whether he will do so now and take a very shall you say hideous gamble to invade Lebanon we have to see. Other than that I think there also Israel and Saudis have lost and lost ground significantly in Lebanon. Another development is that Saudi Arabia has agreed quote unquote agreed to ease the blockade which has actually devastated the Yemen which has been bombed by Saudi Arabia led coalition of which United States and United Kingdom are part. Do you think that this so-called ease by Saudi Arabia in the blockade will help Yemen out of the crisis? Well the easing seems to be very partial and only those places which is occupied by forces which are aligned with Saudis not in areas where the Houthis are controlling. They have said today that I saw in the ticket today that Sana is also an airport which they allow supplies to come in. They have not allowed till now even UN supplies to come in. They are not allowing food to come in. They are not allowing medicines to come in. The country is devastated is probably today another statement. If you are nearly 100 to 200,000 people are suffering from communicable disease like cholera. What it seems to show is the sewage and the drinking water system is completely collapsed. Electricity is no longer there. If it is not there the Houthis don't get running water. So you have a whole series of things which are happening which for a quote unquote modern state is a complete disaster and that's what we are seeing in Yemen. I mean the pictures are heart-rending. It's another matter that the mainstream media is only now beginning to register it in some fashion but the world is criminal in its negligence of what's happening in Yemen. You talked about the Americans and British involvement. I don't know whether people know that without the guidance and the A-box system which fly and help to coordinate the bombing runs. Saudi Arabia's air force cannot bomb Yemen. So they are, though officially they are claiming they are not part of the Yemen war. They are complicit because without tactical support at the air force and the shall we say bombing level and the level of operations of the bombers if that tactical support doesn't come from the United States and the British. Saudi Arabia's air force cannot operate and it's really thousands and thousands of missiles and bombs they are launching every day. That is the devastation we are seeing. Forget about civilian casualties for bombs. The civilian, major civilian casualties, starvation and disease which is what we are seeing. So yes there is a 13 minute segment on 60 minutes which talked about the tragedy of Yemen but it carefully does not talk of complicity of United States and even in all the reports reports which come from Britain, the United Kingdom on the kind of atrocities that are being committed on Yemenis we do not find reference to what these countries are doing in order to support Saudi Arabia. Somebody has written or said that this war will stop the day Saudi Arabia stops getting support from United States and United Kingdom who are coordinating their airstrikes physically. So I think that's the part which is still the unsaid part of Yemen and what is being said is as if it's a natural disaster which is taking place on which actually there are no guilty parties but it is just a disaster and this is the kind of reporting we've had earlier in Libya, we've had earlier in Somalia. We seem to rob agency from the villains who are wreaking this havoc on these countries. Thank you Prabir. Thank you for talking to NewsClick. Please log into our website www.newsclick.in.


From Hollywood, the Phil Harris Alice Faye Show. For your enjoyment, here is the Phil Harris Alice Faye Show, written by Ray Singer and Dick Chevrolet, with Elliot Lewis, Walter Tetley, Robert North, Janine Roos, and Whitfield, Walter Sharpen is music, yours truly, Bill Foreman, and starring Alice Faye and Phil Harris. Yesterday, there was a big football game between UCLA and UCLA. I mean USC. Bill and Frankie had two tickets for the game, but they never got to see it. Let's go back to yesterday and find out why. Oh, I can't wait to see that game today. Aren't you excited, Curly? Sure, I'm excited. Naturally, it's gonna be a honey. Takes me back to the days when I used to play for my college.  Uh, takes me back to the days when I used to play for my high school. What high school did you go to, Daddy? Takes me back to the days when I was the best full-backed Colton Myers kindergarten ever had. I was known in those days as Twinkle Toes Harris. The way I used to tightrope down the sidelines, ah, it was a pretty thing to behold. Ain't that right, Remly? You say so. For a substitute waterboy, you weren't bad. Now, the kids, if you want to see class, you should have seen me. Rump along, Remly, they call you. Did you and Daddy play together? We sure did. Let me tell you about it, kids. You see, we... Hey, wait a minute. Now, let me tell them. Why, kids? But, Curly, this week it's my turn to do the lying. It is not. You had your turn last week when you told them about the time you hit the three home runs in the World Series. I know, but how about the week before when you swam the English Channel? No hands. I don't care who tells us, but one of you start talking and this time make it good. Yeah.  Don't worry, this is gonna be a good one. This happened in the Rose Bowl.  Frankie and I stood on the goal line waiting to receive the ball. Frankie caught it, handed it off to me and I started up the field. Curly. 10 yards, 20 yards. I stiff-armed one player. Curly. Side step, two others and continued past the midfield strike. Three tacklers converged on me, but I bowled them over. Curly. Continued down the field. I got on to the 30, to the 20, the 10. Four tacklers jumped on me, but I carried them over the goal line to score the winning touchdown. Curly, what do you want? You'll have to come back. I forgot the hands of the ball. If you forgot to give me the ball, what was I carrying under my arm?  What kind of story is that to tell him? Your kid's better run along. Your father ain't in very good form today. Okay, I've heard enough anyway. Me too. Come on, Phyllis. Let's go down to the corner and have a beer. Yeah, you kid, what? You're going down to the corner for a what? A root beer. See you later, Daddy. I'd be scared for a minute. Did you get the tickets for the game, Curly? Yeah, we're supposed to pick them up at the box office. Hey, we're lucky to get these two seats. Phyll, what were you two fellas telling that girls about you having played football? I wish you wouldn't fib to them. What fib? We did play football, didn't we, Frankie? Of course we did. I'll never forget the time I starred in the Rose Bowl at Pasadena. It was on New Year's Day and I zig-zagged all over the field avoiding tacklers. Did I right, Curly? Yeah, with a few corrections. The zig-zag you were doing. But it wasn't New Year's Day, it was New Year's Eve. And it wasn't the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, it was the Hotel Lobby in Milwaukee. The only guy trying to tackle you was the house detective. Hey, Alice, he wasn't the star of that game I was. Which game? The one at Pasadena or the one in Milwaukee? The one in Pasadena. Oh, that was that day I made them 12 touchdowns. They couldn't lay a hand on me on small, wonder. In those days I had the speed and grace of a gazelle. Gazelle, you say. Let's forget this small talk and let's have lunch before we go. Alice, I'll have a ham and cheese sandwich on white toast. And I don't want no tomato on the sandwich. Instead of tomato, I want sliced pickle in the sandwich. And I want the toast light and warm. Anything to drink, Your Highness? Yeah, I'd like some coffee. No cream, two and a half lumps of sugar. Would you like it served in bed? No, on a saucer, like I always have. Never! We'll fix our own lunch and we better do it now if we want to get to that game in time. Oh, Bill, I meant to tell you. You won't have to go to the game. Won't have to? What do you mean? I have a surprise for you. You could see the game at home. I bought you a television set. Alice! I told you never to mention that word in my house. I am a radio man and we of radio refuse to acknowledge this Johnny come lately. Bill, television is a wonderful form of entertainment and it's here to stay. Ba, humbug and Balder Dash. And if you needed a dash of poppycock too. Gee whiz, entertainment, she says. It's nothing but stary optic and slides with the shakes. How did you know? You never gave television a fair trial. No, but I've given the shakes a test. When TV first came out, we had a set here for a full evening and what did they show? Puppets, wrestling, old cowboy picture. And beautiful dames with low-cut gowns. Yeah, beautiful dames with lo... What kind of a set you got, Clyde? We only have some wonderful shows on television today. Educational programs like Shakespearean dramas, child psychology, political forums. I'm a Ray Hutton and Dagmar. They're educational. Depends on what you're studying. Bill, why are you so dead set against television? Well, I don't think it's ready yet. Let's face it, Curly.  Nobody wants you on television. What does that prove? Nobody wants me on radio either, but I'm on it. I think I could have picked a better way to prove my point. Hey, where's the set, honey? Well, I sent Willie out to buy one. He's such a shrewd chopper. I think you'll change your mind when you watch some of the programs, Bill. All right, all right, so I'll give it another chance. Hey, Remly. Yeah? Call the Coliseum and cancel our tickets. Okay. Honey, honey, I know you'll like television once you get used to it. There are some wonderful artists on television, good comics, dramatic stars, and some of the female singers are beautiful. Beautiful? Are you kidding, honey? They won't see anything until they've seen you. That's when they're gonna see it because you're my idea of a beautiful singer. Oh, thank you, dear. I, wait a minute. What are you leading up to? The same thing you're leading up to, your song. Thank you, dear. ["Why Fight the Feeling"] Why fight the feeling, the feeling, the fabulous feeling? Why fight the feeling we're face to face with romance? Why miss the magic, the magic, the moment of magic? Why miss the magic, relax and give it a chance? We're right on the very brink of kiss number one. There's no time to stop and think. It's too late to run, the beginning's begun, so why fight the feeling, the feeling that started us reeling? Why fight the feeling that says tonight is the night? Why fight the feeling when it's oh so right? The fabulous feeling, why fight the feeling, relax and give it a chance? We're right on the very brink of kiss number one. There's no time to stop and think. It's too late to run, the beginning's begun, so why fight the feeling, the feeling that started us reeling? Why fight the feeling that says tonight is the night? Why fight the feeling when it's oh so right? Here I am everybody, I bought the set.  I can't wait to see it, where is it kid? Right here under my arm. Under your arm, what kind of a set did you get? Alice told you to get a 21 inch screen. Oh nonsense, the size of the screen is unimportant. This is the best second hand portable set that money can buy. Oh that was a present for Phil. Why did you have to buy a portable set? And a second hand one at that. I don't think you should keep sinking money in this husband of yours. It's like counting sand into a rattle. Besides this has a good sized screen, I'll open the cabinet door and show you. There, how do you like it? Take it back, it's damaged. It is not. Then what's that small piece of adhesive tape right in the center for? That's the screen. Oh goody. We get to see Fay Emerson in a plunging bandaid. Willie, how can you be so cheap buying a set like that? Hey Remly, take a look at that thing. Have you ever seen anything like that? Anything that's small in your life? Not since you gave me my last paycheck. Be sarcastic fellows. You get a wonderful picture on this set. I'll just plug it in and show you. There. Now I'll just turn it on and adjust the picture. There we are. Oh it's a beautiful picture. Let me see it. You'll have to get in line honey. All this thing can handle is one eye at a time. Look at that nice large picture. You couldn't get a... Oh dear, there's something mechanically wrong. The picture blacked out. Oh I'll fix it Willie. There. Oh the picture's back Philip. How did you do it? It was easy. I just brushed the fly off the screen. Oh we can't watch a football game on this screen. We'll all go blind. Come on Remly, we're going to the Coliseum and see that game. We can't Curly. When I canceled the tickets they said they were no more available. Well we can't get tickets and now we can't see it on television. We can still see it on television. How?  They're very expensive. Now if you know where to go... I can get one a lot cheaper. Now where are you going to get one cheaper? I know a guy. Follow me Curly. All right. Well here we are Curly. Just wait until you see my friend's merchandise. This is one of the swankiest house furnishing stores in the city. Yeah, a nice location too. Right next door to the city dump. It's ideal. Gives him a chance to pick up a lot of unusual items. Sounds like an enterprising fellow. Oh he is. Where do you meet him? Hi Grogan. Well Frankie, how are you pal? You too Harris, good to see you. Now wait a minute. Hey bud, ain't you the guy who was in the counter-fitting business and wanted to sponsor me on the air? The same. I hated to give that business up when I had to. The government complained. Oh, I can't imagine why. Jealousy. I was turning out better stuff than they were. I made a $5 bill that was a doll. Your money was that good, huh? Well I ain't want to brag, but once the banks handled my stuff they refused to carry that inferior merchandise the treasury was handing out. It was only a question of time before the government went bankrupt so being a good American I stepped out. That was a patriotic gesture. Yeah, yeah. Harry was very grateful. He gave me a presidential citation and an autographed record of Margaret singing The Thing. How can I do for him? I'd like to hear the record. Look Grogan, I want to buy something but before I do are you sure that this is a legitimate business? Well naturally this is a legitimate business. If it wasn't how could I display all this merchandise out in the open here? Everything you see here was bought on the level as pianos, refrigerators, lamps, end tables. There ain't a hot piece on this floor. Now what do you want? Well I want to see a television set. Follow me. What are you doing? Opening a trap door to the hot goods department.  Mr. Harris, I resent your straight laced attitude. I do business with all the big stars and I got some wonderful sense. Well, I gotta admit that you do have some beautiful merchandise. That's a nice looking set over there. Well it should be. It was custom made for Bing Crosby. How'd you get it? Well me and a couple of friends at Bing one night I casually mentioned that's a lovely set you got there. I'd like to have one like it. Bing said, if you want the set, take it. Bing told you to take it? Just like that? Yeah, yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? Two guys with me were so surprised they almost dropped their guns. You stole that set from Bing?  Look, Grogg, I told you I don't want to buy no stolen goods. Well, all right, if you're gonna be picky on about it. I got a set right here that belonged to Jack Benny. Now, Jack's some bought a new one for me. He tied this one in and I can let you have it at a very good price. I don't know. Don't look very modern to me. Well, it may not look modern, but just wait a minute, I'll tune it in for you. Well, what are you reaching inside the set for? So I can get the cat's whisker in a good spot on the crystal. Oh, fine. A crystal television set. It's the latest thing. The picture's great and just wheel you here to reception on it. Here, put these earphones on. You mean I gotta listen to this with earphones? Well, naturally. Now you put the earphones on while I tighten the crank. What's the crank for? You want the pictures to move, don't you? Groggie, you may think that I'm a hard man to please, but I don't believe I want this set. I don't blame you, Curly. I've come to the conclusion that you shouldn't buy a set. Then how are we gonna see the game? Build our own set. Build our own with a kit? Now that appeals to me. Buying a kit is cheaper anyway. Sure. Once we get the set built, it'll be just like being at the game. We'll see all the plays, and at half time we'll see the card stunts, and hear the band playing, and those college kids singing, and we'll- Holy smoke, Frank. Thanks for reminding me. Of what? I haven't sung yet. What's that? Automatic pitch pipe. But she got caught when her house fell in, so you see there's got to be just one road for you and me. Let old Satan know he lost the fight, cause you can't do wrong doing right. You gotta do right. Ah, make me know. Yes, you gotta do right. Well, preach it to me. If you want to see the lights. Oh, hallelujah. Cause you can't do wrong when you're doing right. There's them that's good, and them that's mean, and them that's somewhere in between, but it looks to me from what I've seen that you can't do wrong doing right. There's them that's meek, and them that's bold, and them that's bold. Now don't ask me, but I've been told it's the meek that plays them hops of gold, cause you can't do wrong doing right. Now look at ol' big guy, ragging about his side, taking on little David. But he got his right between the eyes, so you see there's got to be just one road for you and me. Let old Satan know he lost the fight, cause you can't do wrong doing right. You mustn't do wrong. Oh, that's right with me. Oh, you mustn't do wrong. That's philosophy. If you want to get along. Yeah, I believe it now. Cause you'll never get along if you're doing wrong. Now they threw Daniel to the line, the king had it done, he's the law, but it wasn't long till Daniel and all of them cats drinking milk out the straw. So you see there's got to be just one road for you and me. Let ol' Satan know he lost the fight, cause you can't do wrong doing right. You know you can't do wrong doing right. Cause you can't do wrong when you do it. What is wrong? You mean you're going to try to build your own television set out of that kit? Sure, it'll be a cinch. There's only 2,784 parts to put together. Certainly we have each part numbered and all laid out in the line, and then we got Willie and the kids helping us. But you have to have the part spread out all over like that. Well, they're not spread out all over. Now come on, Remli, let's get started. Okay. According to the directions, the first part I need is number 97. 97! 97! Thank you. Now I need part 568. 568! Uh, while you're up there, hand me part 2522. 22, it's out here on the roof. I'll just reach out and... Now what happened? Look, baby outside and pick up part 2522 and bring it in. What about Uncle Willie? Ain't nothing the directions about him, let him lay. Yeah, let's hurry and put this thing together. The game will be on in an hour. Let's see. Next thing I need is, uh, rotary condenser. That's part 256. Oh. 256! Philip, I've got a rent sacroiliac. Sorry, we can't use it. For a rotary condenser. Thanks very much, it's fine. Look, there are too many people trying to help. You all beat it, leave this to Curly and me. Look, Curly, it's too much trouble running all over the house to get the parts. Let's start at the beginning of the line and put the parts together as we come through them. Yeah, I'll do it. Well, let's get started. We did it, Curly, we did it. Sure we did. Now let's talk about this silly girl. There ain't nothing we can't do. Just look at it. That's what I call a television set. I did it, Dandy. Oh, man. She's a little spread out, but look at that cabinet we made. Ain't that a thing of beauty? You see that slanted top? That gives it that streamlined effect. Hey, I brought in the groceries. Hey fellas, what's the idea of bringing that little house inside? Look, Julius. Why don't you leave it out and back in a big house where it belongs? Why don't you beat it, kid? I will, this country. What rumor? Is it true that Mr. Remley is the thing? Now get lost while we try this television set that we just made. He's made a television? Nothing you guys can't do wants the tool you put your mind to it. You mean our minds? Plural. I mean your minds. Singular. It means to fill up two heads. Snappy retort. I don't have you know we did a great job on this set. We haven't tried it yet, but I'll guarantee it'll work. This I gotta see. Okay, this you're gonna see. Hey, Remley. Yeah? Crawl under the cabinet and turn the picture on. Got the controls under the sets? That's so the kids can't mess around with it. Okay, the set's on, Curly, and it's working great. How can you tell you got the screen under the set? Of course not. If you'll just step in the kitchen, I'll show you the clearest picture you ever saw. How's the sound, Curly? I don't know. I'll go in the dining room and listen. Kitchen and the sound in the dining room? What's in the bathroom?  Don't go that far back. Alice, she's taking a bath. Gotta be fast on your feet, kid. Finally, there's something wrong. I just looked in the kitchen. There's no picture on. I can't understand it. I thought it... No wonder. I forgot to put the plug in. Oh, no. There now it's on. Oh, look at those tubes light up. Yeah, look at that machine glow. Yeah, and look at the smoke coming out of it. Now, that's just one of them cigarette commercials. Oh, yeah, listen to your say. Quiet, kid. I'm lucky I'm in one piece. Curly, you okay? Oh. Curly, speak to me. Say something. Is there anything I can do for you, pal? Yeah. Hand me part 822. What's that? My nose. It must be around here someplace. Hey, folks. I really get a chance to be an actor on this week's Lux Radio Theater. Dan Daly is ill, so he called me to take over his part and assure my everything. And I'll get to a moat with my favorite star, beautiful Anne Baxter. Now, remember, I'm on the Lux Radio Theater this week, so don't forget to listen. Now, head a hopper, then Gloria Swanson and the theater guild on NBC.


When you think about you, you you also dealt with Kevin Gates. Yeah, nigga, I was in Huntsville, Alabama, me and my motherfucking brother, breadwinner, came. Yeah, he a member of the breadwinner gang. Yeah, like, what was how was that? How did you even know him? Yeah, we on boss talk one on one. So so you you basically meet Gucci in them back in the day. How do you meet him though? How do you? Um, shit, man. You know, one of my relatives was going with this guy's sister, his name is Wiz. Okay, Wiz, we linked in with Zay. And we went over Zay who's in the studio. So he's like, man, you know, I got an artist named Gucci. He from Alabama wants you to meet him. So he introduced me to Gucci and he was like, I'm from Bessam, Alabama, from Huntsville. We linked in, but I wasn't rapping at that time. Okay. So we linked in on some, you know, just me just linking in with him. How were you at the time? How old were you? Man, I was probably about 22, 23. Okay. And 22, 23 year old cocky as hell, but real humble, but cocky. Yeah, but cocky. Yeah, yeah, I'm listening. Nobody thought I had my own money. Ain't that the way we say it? Rap money went nothing. I thought rap money was funny.  So so when you was round him, though, that during that time, that was before the, that was before Walker, Neil. But but did you even deal with him during the time he was dealing with Walker? Well, when he got with Walker, that's when he had to issue a cat, I guess. And then, you know, Ms. Deb came in and Ms. Deb really didn't know me like that. I linked in with him a couple of times, but it really was like he was jumping into another phase of his life. So, you know, he had to let a nigga move on when they moving on. When they moving on, yeah, yeah. So yeah, shout out to Gou, I bet we straight, but he had to move on and make his next journey in his life for his career. When you think about you, you also dealt with Kevin Gates. Yeah. What was, how was that? How did you even know him? Like, oh, y'all, he's not, he's from Baton Rouge. That's why I asked you that. Remember I asked you that? Yeah. Yeah. So how did you even link with with Kevin Gates? Well, you know, Gates, man, you know, I seen him, I think we was out at Onyx. He was with Draco. I think he was with Draco and Masi or something.   He started saying that. So when we linked up, I had got a feature for somebody, one of my artists. The artist was lazy. He was like, man, you need to just cut it and just start rapping yourself. So he was like, boom, we're going to do it like this. Boom. I'm like, what BWA mean? Like, whoop. I'm like, I'm about to get it on my neck.  So everybody know that. So when I start pushing it, the whole state out about my California, you know what I'm saying? I got Tennessee. I got a lot of people that pushed behind me. So once that happened, he like, damn, everybody know you're everywhere. I'm like, yeah. So we just started pushing it. We did the video. Gates did the while she talking video for me. Drop that single. It was on worse though. I think it did. Yeah, it did. 1.6 million views on that thing. I like it. So yeah, salute the Gates, man. It's all love over there. But you can tell you was younger too. I was like, yeah, I was a lot younger. I was a lot younger than you know. That's hard though, like to have that in your history and to have that in your, you know, your arsenal. When you look back, that was a hard, that's a hard way to come in the game, man. Oh, man. When I seen that, it was, I was like, this done deal. I got to talk to this nigga. And I went and looked at a couple of your interviews and I was like, that's a real woman. I like to link with him because I can look at the way people are, man. I love my people that without a shadow of a doubt, but just seemed like he was a genuine person just from seeing your moves. So I mean the Indians, they told me that, that nailed it too. Because I'm like this, for him to deal with him, it's like, I know the nigga got to be cool. You ain't backing nobody. You know, I was just looking at when I posted my, my press release of signing partnership with TSF. So I was looking at my Instagram right before I walked in. I see Zay reposted that thing. So salute the Zay infamy territory. You know, we work in this summer and this company is going down. Yeah, we on boss talk one on one.


Good afternoon, I'm Alan Wolff and hi, and I'm Jan Cheatham From the University of Wisconsin Madison We're going to be talking about the process that we went through in in establishing in electronic lab notebook service for campus We're relatively early adopters in the eye of Service at an enterprise level for electronic lab notebooks although certainly there are small installations on probably many of your campuses Some of which you may know about some of which you don't we'll talk a little bit about that as part of our strategy The other thing we wanted to start doing as a community is start a community conversation about tools like electronic lab notebooks and other tools that will support the ongoing management of the scholarly record as Scientists social scientists and humanists start working more in a digital environment We think it's going to be very important what we're finding with our graduate students Across disciplines is that many of them want to work in a digitally born environment and from there they get They get frustrated by the fact that they're expected to work in paper Because that's the requirement that their lab has so we're trying to head off some of the people going off in their own directions So I'll begin by talking about what electronic lab notebooks are Of course, they have a lot in common with paper laboratory notebooks Which are centuries old tradition for recording the the discovery process along with the data But there are a few key differences One of them is of course electronic lab notebooks are software So they're not generally a device at all the although they can be used on many different kinds of devices They're collaborative which is I think a big change from paper notebooks because it can it can be really hard to Keep track of what someone is recording if you're the principal investigator You may not get to see the lab notebooks of of the people in your group very often at all and so Electronic lab notebooks have a lot in common with some of the file-sharing platforms and the collaborative tools that we use every day like Google Docs and Box and Dropbox and so forth But like the traditional paper lab notebooks Electronic lab notebooks are a place to record the thinking process The observations the data the conditions under which the data were collected the conclusions Etc. They also can be used as tools for compliance Right now the main standard that most Electronic lab notebook manufacturers are sort of pitching towards is the 21 CFR the code of federal regulations Which I think speaks to the Comparability of electronic records having them count in the same way for legal purposes as paper records There may be other compliance kinds of standards coming in the electronic lab notebook market But lab notebooks in general are considered a tool for protecting IP intellectual property And many many patents defenses have involved producing laboratory notebook records just a very quick history of the idea of and Implementation of electronic lab notebooks, so it kind of looks like back in the 1980s a few people started thinking about them It looked like that it's it was chemists who were thinking about them quite a bit sort of seeing them as a tool for excuse me a tool for Pulling together some of the chemical structure databases that were in use Also thinking about the automation of labs a lot of people envisioning the lab of the future would be one where Instruments would be hooked up to software and people would be recording Their their observations and in the same record and of course that that is happening more and more not so much I think on on higher education Campuses and in higher education labs, but I think evening we're increasingly seeing more sophisticated software And people are collecting some of the output of instruments in in tools like MATLAB and and so forth It kind of looked like some folks at a chemist at Virginia Tech and a Chemist at Procter and Gamble were sort of the original Visionaries there then in the next decade There there were more and more people using them so it looked like In 1993 there was a full day devoted to discussion of electronic lab notebooks at the national meeting of the American Chemical Society a group of the collaborative electronic notebook systems Association spun up in about 1997. They started looking at architectures for sharing information across lab notebooks The 2000s saw a lot of people creating open source La electronic lab notebooks so using some of the existing platforms in the top you see an example of the Pacific Northwest National Lab Notebook looks like that was based on Java that I think had some uptake for a while But it looked like it was discontinued so you can no longer Get support for it. You may be able to get it still Another one was my lab book which came out of University of Houston Drupal based You can still find it on their lab site, but it doesn't look like they're providing much support So a lot of these open source things sort of came and went there are still a few things though like the Open wetware has a tool that you could still use a wiki-based tool and more recently lab trove if you've heard of that one Which is based on? blogging software also available but at the time when people in the Academic section session were working on open source tools There was a lot of uptake in the private sector of commercial tools So that by 2012 a survey that was done of companies Researchers and companies showed that about 40% of the respondents to that survey were using electronic lab notebooks in at their company and Almost that many again were said their company was looking into it at the time. They took the survey Even so there was a lot of consolidation and change in the ELN market at the time a lot of companies buying out other companies and mergers And about that time a little bit later on some universities started to sign site licenses So I think some of the earliest ones were Caltech and Cornell Yale and More recently, I think Ohio State has at least they're almost they're almost at the point of signing a site license And of course University of Wisconsin signed a site license back in July of this past summer Okay So about the time that we started thinking about electronic lab notebooks on our campus, which was about four years ago We had been talking to a number of researchers and hearing from them about how difficult it was to keep records that were sort of half paper half digital so Data is digital and the the traditional notebook is paper and they were they were losing things When you can't keep the data alongside the documentation of the data Things get lost people were losing the data themselves or they were losing the documentation People were using things like Evernote or one note to keep their the expository part of their record To keep that part of it, but they were losing the data We were also hearing that some people were starting to adopt electronic lab notebooks on campus And there was some concern that we would end up with five or more different systems on campus That wouldn't be operable That people were exposing themselves to some risk by signing agreements individually with companies and agreements that didn't protect their IP or the data itself So there was some concern there and our patent office was kind of a big driver in this process So they've always been the authority on campus for good notebook practice And of course that involves keeping a Complete and continuous record of the research process one where there aren't gaps So if if you If you made a change or use you didn't record anything in your notebook You usually made a note of that in the notebook. So it was pretty clear when something was missing Notebooks also were a place to keep track of who did who did what when and a Lot of a lot of people's even sign and witness notebooks too So the idea so provenance is is a really important thing Even though the patent laws changed recently There's still good reasons our patent office said for keeping a good lab notebook There could be disputes that arise you might need to demonstrate that you were using a process before a patent was filed for among other reasons and Keeping a good lab notebook is a pretty good way to protect yourself against any accusations of research misconduct a lot of a lot of the research that you see a lot of the Retractions often go back to people not being able to show that they had kept a complete archive of the data and so forth Around around four years ago our campus established a data Stewardship policy which I'll describe in a little more detail And of course funders were coming up with data stewardship requirements and of course we're all thinking about the the long-term the long-term archiving of research records and PIs themselves and and researchers themselves really wanted to have a single digital record that was searchable That was kind of their bottom line So all of these things kind of added up to our business case for pursuing electronic lab notebooks which we kind of embarked on a Few about four years ago, and I mentioned our campus data policy. It has a few key provisions It's kind of a basic policy in these four areas one of the main things It it says is that the PI is the steward for the research the PI is responsible for setting up a way of organizing the data and Providing access to the appropriate individuals and explaining their access to them The data should be retained for a minimum of seven years sometimes longer and There's their rules about being able to take data with you when you leave if you're if you're the If you're a graduate student who's leaving you may with the PI's Permission take a copy of the data, but the original must stay with the PI on campus If you're a leaving PI then if agreements are signed with the new institution The PI goes to then often the PI takes the data with them and So the reason I brought that out is there were some implications for the electronic lab notebook Implementation that we did on campus We very much wanted to To have this be a system that would align with that policy and that kind of put some constraints on us the Software we like the software. It's great. It's not quite where we want it to be with administrative functionality and We so we have had to kind of work with adopters of the system to ensure that the the PI is Really in the stewardship role and that's meant making sure the PI is the only one with the role of notebook owner owner is basically the highest end level of rights in the software the PI then determines the roles for the other individuals that are in their lab or in their Collaboration group and provides access to them through those roles and sets edit view rights Etc. The PI also has the ability to Determine who can export and share from the system and if they want to implement some kind of signing and witnessing Witnessing isn't doesn't really work in the software very well They're kind of some workarounds to make it happen. The PI can also set up templates And processes for data management The seven-year retention is something That exports can make possible out of the ELN system But that's actually one of the main things that we want to talk about today is the thinking about the archival from the system And how it's kind of a work in process as Alan alluded to We'll talk he'll talk a little bit more about transfer. I think I mentioned also when people leave So of course at one of the other elements that has been driving our adoption of tools like electronic lab notebooks Are some of the funder requirements and obviously that's very important to us at an institution that a Big chunk of our annual budget is based on our research dollars So the requirements that you keep an accurate record of your research are not new All of the funders have said that but they're becoming increasingly Proactive in trying to manage what you choose to do how you manage that record So while they're still trying to allow the disciplines to define what that means The introduction of data management plans first by NIH and then by NSF and then basically everybody else has Really started some new conversations on our campus and many campuses across the country and Then the the the next wave of this with the open access public access policy by our funders is another thing that's driving What kinds of tools can we provide that will help support our researchers? So we start One of the first questions we received once some of our new associate deans had heard about the public access policy was well Will the ELN help us meet the public access policy and the answer is yes for many of the poly for many of the policies it's going to help us maintain more accurate research records and The tools do allow for public sharing now one of the things that we have done because of a limitation in the current product That we're working with is we've turned public sharing off because it's a it's a binary switch we can turn on public access for everybody in the on campus or have it off for everybody on campus and that's a problem in that our Intellectual property people are very concerned about premature sharing of research data by someone accidentally clicking a button The other thing that this is really going to help with and has And not that this is our most important driver that that our administrators are happy about but our administrators are happy about the increased audit ability of Having things in an electronic lab notebook things are time-stamped So it makes it easier to find out who has access to the data who had access to the data and when it was accessed so For the human for the intellectual property our human subjects people are very excited because it means that they They're hoping that they can that human subjects researchers will be able to can store the entire human subjects protocol record including the Consent forms and other things in there in part because we're moving to a system in which they're going to be audit They're going to be auditing researchers to make sure they're in compliance with human subjects policies So having a way that they can do it without interrupting the researchers is something they're They're they're hoping to do Lastly for export control they're interested in being able to Monitor who had access to the data and have very fine-grained controls over who had access but Just as a this is a very small snapshot, but the We've got examples of the product that we're using lab archives as a public sharing platform So we hope to work with the vendor to make it possible that the PI will have very fine-grained Controls to say what can be publicly shared and what is it so that accidents don't happen and we don't have premature release of the data so a Little bit about the the elements of compliance that we've been able to address so far so far. We haven't we're working on having this Available for protection of HIPAA data and our HIPAA compliance officer is is looking at it actively They the company we're working with is a cloud-based vendor But they have signed the appropriate paperwork and we're now working it through our legal channels our human subjects officers Will allow people to use the electronic lab notebook now with with the appropriate Description in their IRB protocol similarly with other health sciences human subjects data and The the one group that we haven't worked with so far our select agents So if you're not select agents are things like highly contagious when influenza virus There are computer codes that aren't allowed for export those things are something that we don't know that will ever allow in the Cloud but something we've negotiated with this particular vendor is the ability to host this on our own campus and put it within our Select agent infrastructure so that for those people who really need who want to use electronic lab notebooks, but can't Use a cloud-based version. We'll be able to run it locally so One of the things that we said we wanted to do is find out from you what's going on and start a community conversation about electronic lab notebooks so Maybe by show of hands does anyone is anyone else looking at like does anyone else have electronic lab notebooks on their campus that? They know and help support What Kentucky Caltech? Oh, yeah, yes. Yes, we know We worked with with your people on the the net-plus service. Oh So so the other lab archive adopters anyone else working with it Mm-hmm, and one of the things that one of the reasons we Moved a little more quickly than we might have in terms of waiting for the product to be right Was because so many of these especially the cloud-based vendors are offering a free individual License so anyone can go sign up for an account and start putting data in and that made Many of our PI's nervous it made our institutional research policy people concerned and That we wanted to head that off by providing an alternative to them How many of your campuses have data stewardship policies like ours Or or maybe you don't know That was something that we had done It was a campus committee of our faculty our research faculty who established this and it basically was to set the The the chain of responsibility for managing research data in in a code that the university supported it doesn't necessarily mean that our researchers fully understand what that means and One of the things we're trying to do is develop tools that align with the our research policy so that we can It's a way of guiding people towards a better practice of managing their data So how many other has anyone else heard on their campus about people using electronic lab notebooks? yeah, and So it's certainly one of the things you'll find too Yeah, so I would look in your chemistry departments chemists have been way out ahead in the use of electronic lab notebooks So that's a place to look for both expertise and for people using it if you're if you're interested in finding out Who might be using it but I think one of the the things that you may want to think about taking back to your institution is a question about Having graduate students going out and Putting their data into these systems without the appropriate agreements and without the PI being able to get at that data That is probably the biggest concern and one of the reasons why we'll talk about the Implementation that we used on our campus to make it harder for them to do that So One of the things that we began with was a set of pilots and actually I think pilots have gone on at a number of Institutions, they're sort of a cautious approach. I think to testing out a tool and I think Prior to these pilots what I had heard when I spoke with other people was that Even some places where they offered electronic lab notebooks For example, I think the chemistry library at Stanford Pretty early on had a license for a Cambridge soft product And invited their researchers to come and use it and they got very little uptake And I think the the main story was that if it you know if it isn't broken Don't fix it. Most people were pretty conservative about changing to an electronic system since paper was working pretty well So we weren't quite sure if we would have a lot of interest on our campus, but we started talking to people We put out a call for participants for a pilot. We got a lot of responses I think we got about a hundred or more people who were interested and we ended up running a pilot with about 65 individuals We asked them to use one of either of these two products ecat or surf as the primary means for recording their research for three months But we also cautioned them to keep a backup copy of it on paper either printing it out from the electronic lab notebook or keeping an analog lab notebook at the same time And they were from pretty pretty broad spectrum of disciplines And so the what we found from that pilot was first of all people hated one of the products But we can we could say that now that product is now defunct. So the the surf products not because of our pilot but Other reasons probably just the turn in the market related Kinds of reasons. They did like the product called ecat though quite a bit The the main conclusion was that almost everyone who participated in the pilot even if they use the surf product Said that they would like to continue using an electronic lab notebook. So that was pretty good reason for us to go forward with a Procurement process We we went through a fairly lengthy one. They take a long time at a state university And at the end of that then we signed a site license with lab archives I thought I'd tell you a little bit about our RFP our request for proposals It had a lot of requirements for functionality Of course user interface is very important with a software tool that researchers are going to use as part of their research workflow We we also looked a lot into things like identity management security compliance data retention disaster recovery So we we had a good group of people looking over the products that we got responses from and and vetting many of these things and Then oh, that's right We wanted to share with you at the bottom there if you'd be interested in looking at our lengthy set of requirements and questions for vendors if The URL for that is there Very shortly after we signed a site license Internet to became interested in doing a service validation actually Cornell was the sponsoring institution and they we did a along with Cornell and and Caltech and Ohio State We did a service validation for a net-plus service and again that involved looking at many of the same things that we had looked at in our RFP so functionality We had a multi-institutional security assessment legal assessment came up with pricing and Also out of that spun up an advisory board. So we're working with the vendor on their roadmap. So net plus Now has a service offering for lab archives That's been around actually I guess since October and Just a few notes about our service implementation So this is a product that is designed to fit with SAML 2 The SAML 2 identity management the shibboleth integration, but because of our La our campus data stewardship policy, which says that the PI needs to be the steward and provide access to individuals According to what what permissions they want to give them We wanted to take it another step further. So we wanted to be able to Have the PI decide who has access and so that led us to a sort of a specialized integration using a tool called grouper that inner interfaces with SAML 2 so that that kind of gave us an additional Step of having to authorize individuals. I know at Cornell and I think at Caltech Pretty much anyone who can log in through your campus identity management can use the tool But we've sort of put a bit of Firewall around it for that And I'll explain a little bit sort of what's what that's meant for us We also spun up a service team with representatives from various units across campus Libraries the patent office the office of the CIO and IT staff and schools and colleges We have our help desk providing very basic support and a few knowledge-based documents So so one of the things of putting this extra firewall firewall around the system has a sort of necessitated is that we Spend some time kind of in high-touch situations meeting with lab groups and helping them decide the roles and rights for individuals and also Setting up accounts for individuals. So we we've kind of referred to this as lab onboarding So labs labs adopt the system rather than individuals and This is meant for us that we we've been going to lab meetings and meeting with entire lab groups Which actually has been great So it gives us an opportunity to talk about the campus data policies talk about data security Help them decide if they have the kind of data that's appropriate to use in in the system Help explain what the roles and rights are in the system how to set up and organize notebooks How to set up rights for sharing and printing and exporting and then this great It's just it's great opportunity to talk about data management that we don't often get with researchers on campus And people ask questions that really relate to data management And so we can talk about things like file naming and and keeping track of different versions and Linking linking out to large files that are too big to be incorporated in the system We can explain to them how nothing gets deleted from an electronic lab notebook That's one of you know one of the key provisions of of a tool like this and get them thinking about their backup and migration strategy out of the tool so it they're a number of Export opportunities and and kind of helping them think about which are the appropriate ones. So obviously Since these lab meetings, we usually schedule them for an hour and sometimes we've stayed for a couple of hours This is not all that scalable as you might imagine. So we're thinking a lot about how we can scale that up One idea and we've done this a little bit is to meet with Departments, so I know we did this I think in our dermatology department, which is a smaller department have a number of PIs and lab groups kind of get onboarded at the same time We've also been working with librarians and IT staff in units on campus. We've had a number of train the trainer events There's a there's a bit of a learning curve for learning the software So anyone who wants to be giving advice on how to use it to lab groups really kind of needs to know how to use the tool themselves And and so there's probably some coordination That that we will need to set up as as we scale things up a bit more The vendor has been great about providing lots of training and are willing to set up all kinds of customized training They'll train individual lab groups So that's been really helpful and we've also found that usually in most labs You'll get someone who's kind of the early adopter who gets all fired up about using the software learns all the you know the nuances of it and Makes it happen for the other members in the lab and that's been really good And we've also had some situations where kind of word-of-mouth has spread through different departments some early adopters who let everyone in the department know that this great system was available and and Why they were using it? Suggesting that the others sign up So just very briefly we so we launched this at the end of September We had a major communication out on campus about it in the first few weeks of Adoption, you know, it looked like we were sort of headed for sort of a logarithmic Curve but then things kind of slowed down the holidays came and we've we sort of put some of our communications on hold We're we're kind of looking at the ongoing funding for this. That's that's kind of a big challenge And so we slowed down on our communications and the adoption has sort of slowed down a bit But we're pretty sure that once we start communicating again that that we'll see an uptick in that again so Once you get labs into a system one of the things that they always ask about or as they become interested in A system like this the first thing that comes up is how do I get out? At least it should be and it should be something that you talk about with your people as you do this So some of the places for thinking about what we are doing Includes how do you archive things? Even if someone wants to maintain their lifelong record in a system most systems can't handle that very well so thinking about how you Have a strategy for archiving at least pieces of the lab notebook either for checkpointing a project so one of the things that some people have talked about in terms of a Data management plan is in their period and their annual reports being able to share results out So the idea that you could export data as an archive at annual periods at the ends of projects Of course it when PIs retire, that's when we want we don't want to just have their materials Sort of disappear We want to have an active project for a process from for bringing their their research scholarly record into our archives when individuals leave labs whether it's a Graduate student or a postdoc with the appropriate permission of their researcher Being able to take a copy of the research that they did while they're there is very often something that they want to do and our people move around a lot so Being able to export a copy of the record so that they can take it with them Is also very important and the nice thing about something like an electronic lab notebook It makes it relatively straightforward because the campus can maintain a copy as it's required to do as the owner of the research data But transfer it also to the new institution. So then you actually have multiple copies so in looking at what what we're looking for in archives is both human and machine readable formats So that we can maintain that continuity of the record so it's someone can go in and look at it But also as Technology becomes better and we can start reprocessing data looking for new things being able to to get access to it What we have now is less than perfect Right now there are two major formats that we can export Easily export from we can export PDF versions of the pages that includes most of the information but not all Or static HTML Representations so that includes a pretty complete Element of the record it also has some gaps and those are things that we're working on the vendor with the nice thing Is they do the company lab archives as a publicly available XML schema For their database and that's where we're hoping to do more work with them To customize the exports that we need to make what we're really looking for is that machine and human readable form That in that includes the complete set of provenance. So as someone makes changes That's important records in a lab in a paper lab notebook when you make a change in your paper lab notebook You line it out in a way that it's still readable and you make your change Lab notebooks are great because you can make those changes and look at a history of those changes But the archive has to reflect that The other thing that we're in the archiving as Jan mentioned the eln our eln was not designed for large files So if you're dealing with files that are a Each person has an individual quota of 100 gigabytes for some people. That's a lifetime's worth of data for some people That's a day or less So the ability to safely link to other to large data sets is going to be really important Something the vendor hasn't quite worked out yet, and it's something that we want to drive them towards as a community But then also how do you keep that record active? And how do you make sure that the file that was in the large in in your archive your large file archive is the same one that You that you was recorded in the eln is going to be important. So how can you check link check some that file? So again managing large Large files the other element of this product even though we're our primary interest is as a tool for research support There's a classroom addition. So And that's more actively well, it's actually very actively used on our campus. We're just it's not something that's part of our group But certainly Cornell is using it quite actively as in the classroom version But that raises a whole nother set of archiving and export needs in terms of students being able to export their data and have Long-term access to the data they they created as students and to maintain that record as Part of the classroom record is another important thing that we need to work with the vendor on The other thing that we want to do is really work with the vendor on integration with other data management tools I'm envisioning lab notebooks as just one of a Collection of tools that will help our researchers with management including integration with instrumentation data processing and Analysis tools so that we can set up data workflows a big thing that Vendors have not addressed yet is migration So when we want to move on from lamb our lab archives to the next best thing how do we get our data out and into a format that's usable and Let's say everyone says these ELN. We're just not ready. We need to wait another five years How do we get our researchers out or a researcher decides? They don't want to be there anymore. What do we do for them? Migration It's very much reminiscent of the learning management system Issue that it's not completely solved yet But is part of the solution or is better in a better place than ELNs is How do you move from one LMS to another? We have strategies for doing that with learning management systems that are some They're painful but can be done. We don't currently have that with learning management systems Right now to our knowledge and if anyone knows different we'd love to find out There are no products that make it easy to import and export in fact one of our runner-up vendors in the in our RFP said Well, what could we have done or what can we do for the next RFP? And I said write an importer for lab archive So that we can move if they make it easy to move our data They're obviously going to be a better choice for us in the future The other thing is very few of them have any capability of exporting a subset or even the whole thing or a subset of data For import into a different instance of the product So if someone does move from one lab archives institution to another The ability to easily migrate that data is all reliant on the vendor and I don't like that and That means access to all kinds of data sharing tools are going to be problematic in the same way So part of it is what institutions will choose to do with that open API and what can we get the vendors to do? Just as an example, we had we had several users of the ecat software Which is now a company called research space, which you may see if you ever do a ELN RFP We had several active users who had More than a year's worth of data in ecat and their solution to migrating data was to export as PDFs and import that into lab Archives the nice thing is lab archives indexes PDFs just fine So they maintain the searchability of their record and it had it put them in an okay position in terms of keeping that That complete record searchable so When we think about the archival formats that are available and this is where we're turning to you as the experts on some of this archival On how we need to move forward on the archival nature of archiving ELN is Right now We're looking at PDFs plus attached files That in some ways that makes sense because for a long time the way that a researcher could Demonstrate the legal aspects of their of their electronic lab notebooks is by printing them out and signing them and maintaining a paper copy But that's probably less than ideal. So some of the standard models for archival formats are Something we need to look at with people who understand them better than us the We should say Jan and I are signed came out of the bench sciences. So we maintain paper lab notebooks. So we're Looking for your expertise and trying to help us figure out what what would be a good way to archive this Perhaps the most interesting thing that we're we're seeing is some work being done by the University of Edinburgh on It's actually a collaboration with the other one of the other vendors that went through our RFP called research space on integration between lab notebooks and their their institutional repository and We're hoping that they have some better solutions for us and then Trying to figure out what is an appropriate metadata standard for archiving electronic lab notebooks is something we need to think through Starting with the standard things you would expect Dublin core There's a European standard called Sarah that is about maintaining the content the Contextual information about the research who was involved what publications were made out of that research What facilities were involved with instruments? But that that doesn't get at the hard part and that's that detailed information and how much does an ELN have to maintain? very specific metadata for a discipline and how much of it can be generalized to a large audience so at this stage We're interested in finding out how you're helping your your people archive the research data now and How would you envision using tools like ELN and what do we have what do we have to do to convince the vendor? So I actually am having dinner with the vendor in a couple of months or a couple weeks and not my whole goal is to pitch fork him into forward with Some of these things that we really need to protect our data for the long term. They of course want to keep us in their product forever But we know that that's not if I've said this to him several times that the best way you can show us that you would that That you're a good collaborator is showing us that we can leave That you have a mechanism for us to get our data out in a format that's useful And that probably is that's the best sign to us that what you're trying to do will help us going forward So at this stage, I'm hoping that you have comments or questions We can talk about the what we're doing with the ELN We can talk a bit more about the product if you're interested. I don't know if our colleagues from Cal Caltech or Cornell know much about the ELN But maybe they have any if they have any input that'd be interesting for us I don't want to keep you longer, but we're happy to answer questions Or if you want to find out more about our lab notebook or other things. We're happy to talk Throughout the rest of the conference Thank you