english: We met in person a few times over many years, but mostly we emailed and very occasionally talked by phone.
non_english: うぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅ