english: A very interesting discussion that I have heard and participated in repeatedly over the past many, many years.
non_english: うぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅぐぅうぐぅうぐぅうぐぅ